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Americans abroad

dempseywesthamgame.jpg
Clint Dempsey scored the opening goal for Fulham in a 3-2 victory over West Ham. (Photo by Tom Hevezi -- Associated Press)

With the World Cup approaching, our Sunday roundup is limited to players in contention for a U.S. roster slot, well-known veterans and other notable performances. Oguchi Onyewu (AC Milan), Stuart Holden (Bolton) and Charlie Davies (Sochaux) are recuperating from long-term injuries.
GOALKEEPERS
Tim Howard 90 minutes in Everton's 0-0 tie at Stoke City
Marcus Hahnemann 90 in Wolves' 3-1 loss at Portsmouth
Brad Guzan in 18, didn't play in Aston Villa's 3-1 loss at Man. City
Brad Friedel 90 for Aston Villa

DEFENDERS
Carlos Bocanegra 90 in Rennes' 2-1 loss to Sochaux
Jonathan Spector 90 in West Ham's 3-2 loss at Fulham
Jay DeMerit not in 18 (injured) for Watford's 4-0 win at Coventry
Steve Cherundolo 90 in Hanover's 6-1 win over Moenchengladbach
Clarence Goodson and Start at Aaelsunds on Monday
Frank Simek not in 18 for Sheffield Wed's 2-2 tie with Crystal Palace
MIDFIELDERS
Clint Dempsey 86 (goal) in Fulham's 3-2 win over West Ham
Michael Bradley 90 in Moenchengladbach's 6-1 loss at Hanover
Maurice Edu 90 in Rangers' 2-1 win at Dundee United
Ricardo Clark 90 in Eintracht Frankfurt's 2-1 loss to Hoffenheim
Benny Feilhaber 71 in Aarhus' 4-1 win at Silkeborg
Jose Francisco Torres 90 in Pachuca's 1-0 win over Monterrey
Alejandro Bedoya not in 18 (suspended) for Orebro's 2-0 win over Hacken
DaMarcus Beasley 62 for Rangers
FORWARDS
Jozy Altidore (season over with Hull City)
Herculez Gomez (season over with Puebla)
Eddie Johnson 90 in Aris' 2-0 loss at PAOK
Freddy Adu 67 for Aris
(Former D.C. United forward Lucio Filomeno, an Argentine who was Adu's teammate in Washington in 2005-06, played 29 for PAOK)


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By Steve Goff  |  May 2, 2010; 4:08 PM ET
Categories:  Americans Abroad  | Tags: Carlos Bocanegra, Clint Dempsey, DaMarcus Beasley, Eddie Johnson, Freddy Adu, Jonathan Spector, Jozy Altidore, Tim Howard, World Cup, soccer  
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Comments

My favorite stats from the weekend: Fulham scoring 3 goals despite getting 2 only two shots on goal, and Souchaux scoring 2 goals despite getting a single shot on goal.

Posted by: BooThisMan | May 2, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Good to see Clark playing here at the end of the season. All of our center mid candidates are getting minutes which is nice. I believe both Holden and Onyewu returned to full training in the middle of the week. Maybe we will see Holden get a run out for the final game.

Glad to see Adu is playing too. I often think people forget he is 20. Yes he was hyped but for a 20 year old American he isn't doing half bad over seas. I mean look at the great success stories of young American players in Europe like Rogers or Szetela....

Dempsey played up top again. I think it is safe to say Dempsey will start next to Altidore against England. I know Buddle/Gomez are on fire but I would prefer a proven European player. Anybody disagree?

Posted by: grubbsbl | May 2, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Then maybe Altidore shouldn't start up top since he isn't proven yet. I could see Dempsey play on the wing for much of the game and then be moved up front after a 2nd half sub. Dempsey with Buddle or Gomez would be interesting as well. Sometimes for the world cup you just need a player who gets hot at the right time (i.e. Toto Schillachi) Buddle and Gomez are on fire, I want someone who is scoring goals to play up top and those two plus Dempsey fit the bill.

Posted by: owendylan | May 2, 2010 6:08 PM | Report abuse

Spector has been shockingly bad of late, personally responsible for a goal in I think each of his last three starts.

Posted by: christopher_a_metzler | May 2, 2010 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Check out this site for a world cup bracket tabulator for a office pool or the like:
http://web.me.com/andyjc/WorldCup/Welcome_to_the_World_Cup_2010.html

Posted by: andyjcmrdn | May 2, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

uhh.. did goff stop doing the good, bad, and coyote ugly? I miss that

Posted by: SexyOffender | May 2, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Dempsey's temporal vein is scary. Let' hope we see it against England :)!

Posted by: delantero | May 2, 2010 8:39 PM | Report abuse

uhh.. did goff stop doing the good, bad, and coyote ugly? I miss that
Posted by: SexyOffender

Last time he dabbled in that was the 08 season last I recall. Where ya' been?

Posted by: DadRyan | May 2, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Nice to see Edu, Clark, Feilhaber and Beasley in the rotations and lots of minutes.

What happened to Bradley v. Cherundolo . . . . . . 6-1???? Sounds like Mikey has to carry Steve's luggage round South Africa.

Posted by: delantero | May 2, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

I asked this after the double-headers last year but I still want to know: can someone explain the (cough) supporters' groups aversion to GOOD soccer? Today 95% of them cleared out rather than see their home pro team play and win big against a good team in their stadium -- for free! This is the passionate hard core that's going to save soccer in DC? WHy show up at all? There are other places to get drunk in this town, after all. Depressing.

Posted by: Godfather_of_Goals | May 1, 2010 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Bravo! I couldn't agree more. IMO, the DC United faithful that have continually turned their backs on the Freedom during these DH's are an embarassment to soccer fans in this area.

Secondly, I will continue to support DCU win or lose. If you disagree then ponder this. Think about how great the not showing up strategy has worked for fans in the past. Where should I begin?...........The list is ponderous but here it goes............LA Raiders, LA Rams, Baltimore Colts, Seattle Supersonics, New Orleans Jazz, Washington Senators, Charlotte Hornets, Vancouver Grizzlies, Atlanta Flames, Miami Fusion, Tampa Bay Rowdies, Seattle Pilots, Kansas City Kings, Montreal Expos. Anybody care to join the party and name some more? Great idea guys! Keep protesting their performance on the field by not showing up. It works great for relocation or contraction!

Posted by: croftonpost | May 3, 2010 12:14 AM | Report abuse

croftonpost, you supporting data is more than a little suspect.

- LA Raiders, LA Rams, Baltimore Colts,

all drew fine at the gate. LAR owned by Al Davis - 'nuff said. LA Rams went for greener pastures/stadium deal. Are you really trying to tell me the Balt. Colts didn't draw? Ditto Montreal Expos. A train wreck from the beginning, whose owners never showed the slightest inclination to building a winning much less competitive side.

Wash. Senators? Are you kidding me? At least the first time around they were owned by Calvin Griffith. Once again, 'nuff said. Seattle Pilots? This team was a joke from the beginning, under-funded and under capitalized, and absolutely destined to fail from the beginning. Tampa Bay Rowdies? If we are talking the old NASL Rowdies, they had league-level problems that were of more concern than any shortage of fannies in seats. I could go on, but few if any of those failed franchises failed primarily because of lack of fan support, and likely would have failed or relocated regardless of fan support.

The fans lack of desire to attend DCU matches is a direct result of one Will Chang having thrown in the towel and turned his back on this team probably more than a season ago. Chang gives every evidence of having given up on doing a stadium deal in the area, and is now running the team as a bare-bones operation until he either sells or moves the team.

If your supposed #1 fan bails on the team, which Chang clearly has, what do you think many regular fans are going to do? If you expect otherwise you are swimming against the tide of human nature.

Posted by: Ron16 | May 3, 2010 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Secondly, I will continue to support DCU win or lose.
Posted by: croftonpost

Thanks for being positive.
VAMOS United!!!

Posted by: 9Nine9 | May 3, 2010 8:41 AM | Report abuse

@Croftonpost and @Godfather_of_Goals,

Much to my personal aversion to women's soccer, I stayed for some of the game.

No one is beholden to support another team just because it's a similar sport. Should all Wizards fans be forced to get tickets to Mystics games, just because it's basketball?

Should one be forced hang around for the Champions/Hip Replacement Tour if they really only cared about seeing the LPGA?

Should Venus and Serena Williams fans be forced to hang around in order to see the 89th seed in the men's tournament at Wimbeldon just because it's tennis?

This argument doesn't hold water. I wish WPS all the success they can earn. As a DC United season ticket holder, no one is honor bound to also support the Freedom and vice versa.

As for fans not showing up - it's hard to blame them. Supporting a team through thick and thin is important, and I will continue to sit through all the games I have tickets to - but I think I will now go catch UVA vs Richmond and VMI in September instead of seeing Houston and Columbus come to town.

I hope that people aren't short sighted and pull the plug on DC forever because of some tough years. Some forget that we were the basement from 2000-mid 2004.

I try to take the positive light from our struggles. Dave Kasper is creating a roster to compete in a 10-team, 2003/2004 MLS. 16-team, 2010 MLS has gotten better and we are being punished for it.

Vamos United, Good Luck Freedom, and I still believe we'll get good news on a Private DC Stadium this year!

Posted by: VirginiaBlueBlood | May 3, 2010 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Ryan Miller 90 in Halmstad BK's 1:0 loss to Brommapojkarna in Stockholm. Miller had a strong game at right defense. One of his teammates scored an own-goal midway throught the first half, and Halmstad could not reply.

Posted by: big_spaniel | May 3, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Ron16,

Nothing personal but it is your argument that doesn't hold water. You state that the teams wewre all supported then you further state why they were not supported towartds the end. You are making my point not yours. Yes, all the teams you mentioned (except the Pilots) were supported at one time but they all were getting substandard support towards the end. Los Angeles is somewhat of an exception to this. USC and UCLA always outdrew the Raiders and Rams as it was always more or a college football town than a pro football town even in the Rams and Raiders better days.

BlueBlood- I get your point but soccer is a different animal and the fans of it need to stick together whether men or women otherwise we may have nothing but lower level soccer to watch in the end.

Posted by: croftonpost | May 3, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse

BlueBlood- I get your point but soccer is a different animal and the fans of it need to stick together whether men or women otherwise we may have nothing but lower level soccer to watch in the end.

Posted by: croftonpost

That's great in theory, but people have things to do. I'm only going to support the Beat in Atlanta because I need to support soccer in Atlanta. Otherwise, I couldn't care less about WPS.

Posted by: Reignking | May 3, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse

I asked this after the double-headers last year but I still want to know: can someone explain the (cough) supporters' groups aversion to GOOD soccer? Today 95% of them cleared out rather than see their home pro team play and win big against a good team in their stadium -- for free! This is the passionate hard core that's going to save soccer in DC? WHy show up at all? There are other places to get drunk in this town, after all. Depressing.

Posted by: Godfather_of_Goals | May 1, 2010 9:49 PM
___________________________________

I couldn't disagree with this more, and I was there for the first half. I follow women's soccer, professionally and collegiately, probably more than the average soccer fan, but I am one individual. I am also a member of one of the "(cough) supporters groups" you mention. Our obligation is to DC United and goes no further than that. Any further support is elective. But please, continue to suggest that you know of our aversions when you, by the way you refer to the supporters groups, would appear not to be a part of one. I am positive that you know exactly what all of us are thinking, and we all left because we don't like "good soccer." It makes so much sense, I'm not sure why I didn't think of it myself.

Posted by: DCU_Rick | May 3, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

While I do support the Freedom, five or six hours is a long time to sit in the sun on a hot humid day, with only RFK concessions available. I asked DCU and Freedom repeatedly if folks could leave the stadium between games and re-enter, but never got a clear answer. I like the concept of double-headers, but the organization of the events needs to improve. (disclaimer: I had a family obligation and didn't go to either game)

Posted by: troy6 | May 3, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Horseshoes and hand grenades, but Dempsey also had a nice shot from the top of the box that clanged off the crossbar.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | May 3, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

That's great in theory, but people have things to do. I'm only going to support the Beat in Atlanta because I need to support soccer in Atlanta. Otherwise, I couldn't care less about WPS.

Posted by: Reignking | May 3, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse

It seems to me that you are backhandedly supporting what he said. I get what some of you are saying but I'm sorry Saturday was ridiculous. In the past it was somewhat different because the Freedom preceeded United but for so many to leave when the Freedom followed United was lame. I'm sorry guys but it really was.

Posted by: Gambrills4 | May 3, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

One more point. If United currently had a SSS and the fans had the leverage than boycotting could work. However, with the current stadium situation there is already one foot out the door. Food for thought.

Posted by: Gambrills4 | May 3, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

I'm with RK, I'll go to Beat games to try to influence support for having a major mens team here in the future, but not much else.

And speaking of temporal veins, the track jacket wearing Bob Bradley in the new world cup video game always has his bulging as well, and I kind of like it.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | May 3, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

I stayed for the doubleheader. Maybe it's me but I also don't understand why soccer fans wouldn't want to stay and watch free soccer. Especially when considering the WPS is the highest level of women's competition in the world. Each to his own I guess, but I agree that it was troublesome for so many to leave. It's the equivalent of a black eye on the DC soccer market.

Posted by: blackandred777 | May 3, 2010 10:47 AM | Report abuse

I think Adu is struggling to find consistency, but it being forced to stay committed more than ever.

Still not sure how Monchengladbach lost to Hannover that bad. Perfect timing, but a little weird for such a stingy team.

Clint needs to stay healthy.

Posted by: UnitedDemon | May 3, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

In the past it was somewhat different because the Freedom preceeded United but for so many to leave when the Freedom followed United was lame. I'm sorry guys but it really was.

Posted by: Gambrills4 | May 3, 2010 10:21 AM

Why is it different? If the argument is that we got 2 games for the price of one, then no, there's no difference between coming in for one game. You're either turning down an opportunity to come in early and catch a free game, or turning down an opportunity to stay late and catch a free game.

And what's lame about it? That there are people out there who are only fans of DC United? That some people can't name any of the Freedom players other than Abby Wambach (and maybe Cat Whitehill) and so they don't follow the team? That some people just don't find women's soccer to be entertaining?

No matter what your proclivities are as a soccer fan, there is no reason to hold everyone else to your standard of fanhood. That, as you say, is lame.

Posted by: DCU_Rick | May 3, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

DCUrick,

It reflects bad on the DC soccer market. Like it or not, it did look bad and it was LAME.

Posted by: Gambrills4 | May 3, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I couldn't get my Portuguese friends to come to Algarve Cup games...until I sent them links to Mitts and Osbourne home pages.

(sound of my knuckles dragging when I walk)

Posted by: troy6 | May 3, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Gambrills4: I think people are confusing supporting soccer with supporting women's soccer or MLS.

Jacob and I, in Atlanta without real soccer, are only going to support women's soccer because it is the only game in town. I don't like women's soccer. And I don't blame people for not wanting to watch 3+ hours of bad soccer.

Posted by: Reignking | May 3, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Reignking,

I get your point but I do not back off of mine. Irregardless or the reason or reasons, it doesn't reflect well on the DC soccer market when such a mass exodus occurs. That is just reality.

Posted by: Gambrills4 | May 3, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

It reflects bad on the DC soccer market. Like it or not, it did look bad and it was LAME.

Posted by: Gambrills4 | May 3, 2010 11:04 AM
_______________________________
What would you have said it "reflects bad [sic] on" if blackandred777 hadn't said "DC soccer market" just a few comments before? All you've done is proclaim things to be lame with no further explanation. To whom did it look bad? Who bases their opinion of the support of soccer in DC on one WPS match where DC United supporters did not stay to support the Freedom, when there is years of data to suggest that DC United are supported more than substantially, and the Freedom have existed for a handful of years in two different incarnations with waning support already in their second year in this particular incarnation? Nothing new was learned on Saturday.

The reality is this: Members of the supporters clubs, especially those that are full/partial season ticket holders, bought tickets to see DC United play. If that is all they cared to do, then that is their preference. While it would have been nice to have more supporters clubs members stay and sing with us, it is their right to do what they choose, and they are under no obligation to do what you think they should. It doesn't have any influence on the DC soccer market. It means thousands fewer people want to see the Freedom play than want to see United, and if you look at the attendance numbers, you'd know that already.

Posted by: DCU_Rick | May 3, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

uh oh! here comes the "irregardless" freight train!

Posted by: troy6 | May 3, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Spector let up the third goal in the Fulham-WHU match. That makes it 3 bad matches in a row. Even the announcers mentioned that England players would be wanting to see more of that next month. Perhaps left back isn't his best position. Maybe left out is.

Thx,

Jay!

Posted by: jayrockers | May 3, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

DCU Rick,

We will have to agree to disagree. I never said that they were under any obligation to stay. Did I? I simply stated that it was lame for so many to leave. That is what I meant by lame and yes I do agree with 777 and concurred. Further, nothing you have said has changed my opinion. It was LAME!

Posted by: Gambrills4 | May 3, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Gambrills4: So it shall be, sir. In the future, please continue to prohibit your opinions from being affected by rational thought, regardless of the forum. Far be it from any of us to change our ways.

Posted by: DCU_Rick | May 3, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

I'm a member of a supporters group, and I didn't stick around for the Freedom match for one simple reason: generally speaking, I find womens' soccer boring as hell. If you enjoy it, that's fabulous and I'm happy for you. I don't enjoy it. It's not about women's sports in general (I prefer women's tennis to men's tennis, and I watch more women's college bball than NBA); it's purely about women's soccer. And the suggestion that I should somehow feel obligated to watch a sport that I don't like because, "hey, Kumbaya, it's soccer" . . .well, that argument lacks a synapse or two.

Posted by: christopher_a_metzler | May 3, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

DCU Rick,

I tried to keep it civil but you insist on being an idiot. I wish I was as intelligent as you obviously think you are. Nothing but love! :)

Posted by: Gambrills4 | May 3, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

feel obligated to watch a sport that I don't like because, "hey, Kumbaya, it's soccer" . . .well, that argument lacks a synapse or two.

==============================

I was at a soccer meeting that involved the management of five different local professional soccer clubs. Their theme that night was exactly what you are stating lacks a synapse or two.

Posted by: Gambrills4 | May 3, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

@ jayrockers :

Spector doesn't have the tools (speed, quickness) to play as an outside back. His strengths are vision and technical skill. He is more suitable playing center back or defensive midfield. It's like asking Reyna to play outside defender. When he got stripped of that ball, it reminded me of Reyna trying to play it out of the back and got stripped against Ghana.

Posted by: Charisma_Man | May 3, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

And the suggestion that I should somehow feel obligated to watch a sport that I don't like because, "hey, Kumbaya, it's soccer" . . .well, that argument lacks a synapse or two.

Posted by: christopher_a_metzler | May 3, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

-----------------------------------

Speaking as an active member in the local soccer community I can attest that "hey, Kumbaya, it's soccer" is a recurring theme throughout the soccer community. You are way off base one this one. "It's soccer" is exactly what it is all about all the time with the soccer community. If you don't get that then you don't get it.

Posted by: croftonpost | May 3, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Well, maybe "the soccer community" needs to have as its mantra, "Kumbaya, its the best soccer it can be" because "kumbaya, its soccer" is not going to attract new fans. "The soccer community" is not going to navel-gaze its way to wider acceptance.

MLS has been giving us "kumbaya, its soccer" and the result has been the level of play has been stagnant for years and the attendance, even at SSS's, ain't nothing to write home about. Again.

Most (though certainly NOT all) MLS games are unwatchable, who-cares, bootball-dreck.
Kumbaya! It's soccer!

Posted by: Ron16 | May 3, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Last year, I went to the DCU half of the double header and skipped the Freedom match. Not because I dislike the Freedom (I went to several matches at the Plex last year), but I was not going to subject my (then) 7 year old to four hours of RFK.

People should not feel obligated to watch a game they are not interested in, just because it's soccer. We are a diverse nation in many aspects, including our soccer preferences. If we watch just because it's soccer, then we're underdeveloped as a soccer nation.

And the Freedom FO should be well aware that the masses would leave after the DC match. Heck, the same thing happens for MLS-Int'l friendly doubleheaders.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | May 3, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

According to the WPS website, attendance for the Freedom game was 8261. Therefore, more people stayed than left ;)

Posted by: OWNTF | May 3, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Gambrills4 writes: I was at a soccer meeting that involved the management of five different local professional soccer clubs. Their theme that night was exactly what you are stating lacks a synapse or two.

Let me get this straight: you were at a meeting where the theme was that fans of soccer should feel *obligated* to embrace it in all its manifestations, even making a point to to watch matches or competitions they wouldn't enjoy, out of *obligation*?

Wow. Just wow. Thank god I wasn't at that meeting.

=====

@croftonpost writes: Speaking as an active member in the local soccer community I can attest that "hey, Kumbaya, it's soccer" is a recurring theme throughout the soccer community. You are way off base one this one. "It's soccer" is exactly what it is all about all the time with the soccer community. If you don't get that then you don't get it.

You're right, I don't get it; and I don't want to. I've been a player and a spectator of this sport in this country for 40 years. I'm long past believing that the sport is so fragile in this country that I need to make an effort to support either teams or leagues that I don't enjoy. In fact, in my opinion, that attitude (and the people who occasionally champion it at Soccer House) hold things back.

Posted by: christopher_a_metzler | May 3, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Personally I'm confused about the attendance numbers anyway. When did they "stop counting" those coming in for the United match and "start counting" for the Freedom??
Even the Barra were late getting in and waving their flags, and I had an entire row of tweenage girls come sit in front of us just before half time in the DCU match. Half of them were actually interested in the United match and the others were there presumably to see the women play.
Anyway, what was the total attendance for the day?

Posted by: DadRyan | May 3, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

@croftonpost, nice try, but no cigar. You were the one who failed to prove any causality between any of those club attendace and their failure or relocation. You just rhetorically waved your hands and said it was so. That shows your almost total ignorance of the history of those clubs and I am not going to try to educate you further on that. Next time, do a little reading instead of just pulling up a google list in response to "failed or relocated sports franchises" and copying & pasting the list.

If you want to find a common denominator between just about all those teams, including DC United at present, then it is this: In many of those cases, either from the beginning, or at some point prior to their demise, the OWNERSHIP of those franchises willfully did not put out a quality product that people wanted to buy. So people didn't buy. *If* there was an attendance problem it almost always was an *effect* of bad ownership, not a *cause* of good ownership folding or relocating.

So here we are in DC. Will Chang, by his deeds, has thrown in the towel and demonstrated that he no intention of making the necessary investments to make DCU competitive going forward. Chang is, for his own reasons, putting a crap product out there in the marketplace. So why should Chang's CUSTOMERS be compelled to buy his product?

Until Chang and his FO *DEMONSTRATE* by their DEEDS, that they are serious about getting some real soccer players in here as opposed to the zombies we have now, and to make whatever adjustments need to be made in the coaching of this team, DCU fans are entirely justified in staying away.

The fact is, DCU fans HAVE ALREADY DEMONSTRATED their comittment to this club. We have turned out in great numbers in good years and bad years, because of the shirt AND because we knew we had ownership that was minded to WIN and who made the necesary investments to WIN. But comittment is a two-way street. Chang has reneged on his and pulled the rug out from under this organization. The fans sense it, and are quite naturally and justifiably staying away in droves.

If DCU fails or relocates, it is on CHANG, *not* the fans. We have done our part. He needs to do his.

Posted by: Ron16 | May 3, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Gambrills4 writes: I was at a soccer meeting that involved the management of five different local professional soccer clubs. Their theme that night was exactly what you are stating lacks a synapse or two.

Let me get this straight: you were at a meeting where the theme was that fans of soccer should feel *obligated* to embrace it in all its manifestations, even making a point to to watch matches or competitions they wouldn't enjoy, out of *obligation*?

Wow. Just wow. Thank god I wasn't at that meeting.

Posted by: christopher_a_metzler | May 3, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

DC United was at the meeting and definitively echoed that sentiment.

Posted by: Gambrills4 | May 3, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Ron16,

Once more you're making my point. I am very familiar with the history involved with these franchises and I am certain you could not educate me. I don't disagree that bad ownership was in play but staying away because bad ownership is in play doesn't work. History has shown that it's a proven failure. I never once said that there were not passionate fans involved but don't tell me there weren't attendance issues involved and to prove my point I will stay local. The Senators of the late 60's and 70's were drawing miserably at the gate and as a result Short had ammunition to move the team. The Colts were routinely drawing crowds of approximately 30,000-35,000 people in the 80's. A fan could walk up the day of the game and get a ticket with no worries (which I did because the Skins were always sold out at the time). Once more the miserable gate gave Irsay ammunition and there was little Rozelle could do. Nice try Ron but no cigar!

Posted by: croftonpost | May 3, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

christopher_a_metzler,

Take it as you wish but what I said is without question, true. The local soccer community continually echoes that theme and frankly based on your comment you seem to know that I'm correct about that.

I-270,

I wish it weren't true but we are underdeveloped as a soccer nation. It's growing but we are nowhere near where we need to be. Stop a person on the street and ask he or she to name one United player or one Freedom player. I bet the majority of people you ask can't do it. However, I would bet they could easily name Portis, Ovechkin, Arenas, or Zimmerman.

Posted by: croftonpost | May 3, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Metzler,

FYI- I never used obligated as a frame of reference. It was definitely an encouragement though. There basic tenet was that attending one helps with all.

Posted by: Gambrills4 | May 3, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Gambrills4 writes: DC United was at the meeting and definitively echoed that sentiment.

So what? Trust me, I don't feel the need to march in lockstep to any and every opinion espoused by the team. They also thought Tino was the answer as center mid, and they still think that Kasper is doing solid work.

FYI- I never used obligated as a frame of reference. It was definitely an encouragement though. There basic tenet was that attending one helps with all.

No, you didn't use "obligated" -- *I* did, in the post that *you* disputed. I wrote "And the suggestion that I should somehow feel obligated to watch a sport that I don't like because, 'hey, Kumbaya, it's soccer' . . .well, that argument lacks a synapse or two," and you wrote "I was at a soccer meeting that involved the management of five different local professional soccer clubs. Their theme that night was exactly what you are stating lacks a synapse or two." So, according to you, their theme was that I should somehow feel obligated to watch something I don't like simply because it's soccer. No thank you.

Posted by: christopher_a_metzler | May 3, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

croftonpost, pretext does not equal cause. Your repeating it ad nauseam does not make it so.

I'll keep it simple for you -- if Chang demonstrates with deeds as opposed to words he wants to make this team win again, the fans will endure the losses and come in good numbers.

Until he does, what you see is what you get.

Posted by: Ron16 | May 3, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

@croftonpost: I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If you're suggesting that, because a lot of the local soccer community believes one is obligated to put energy into supporting teams or leagues one doesn't like or enjoy simply because it's soccer, then everyone else should fall in line and do so, well, good luck with that. Don't forget to include the pony in the list of wishes too.

No matter the sport, no one is under any obligation to support any team or league they don't like or don't enjoy; and no one in the "local soccer community" has any kind of totalitarian rulership status and can dictate to people what they must and must not do about something which is, in the end, a source of entertainment. And suggesting otherwise to the people who don't wanna watch is mainly going to produce laughter.

Posted by: christopher_a_metzler | May 3, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

christopher_a_metzler,

Sigh. If you don't agree then you don't agree. With respect to this, I was the messenger I didn't originate the message.

Posted by: Gambrills4 | May 3, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

croftonpost, pretext does not equal cause. Your repeating it ad nauseam does not make it so.

I'll keep it simple for you -- if Chang demonstrates with deeds as opposed to words he wants to make this team win again, the fans will endure the losses and come in good numbers.

Until he does, what you see is what you get.

Posted by: Ron16 | May 3, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

This makes no sense. I gave you facts and you respond with emotion. I have only maintained that there is a history lesson here and you have done nothing to dispute what I said. Exactly what was said about the Senators and Colts that was inaccurate? Answer, nothing.

Posted by: croftonpost | May 3, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

If women's soccer could hold my attention for more than about 90 seconds, then I'd stick around to watch them in the 2nd half of a double-header.

If someone doesn't like something, why the hell should they bother to stick around?

Posted by: alecw81 | May 3, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

No matter the sport, no one is under any obligation to support any team or league they don't like or don't enjoy; and no one in the "local soccer community" has any kind of totalitarian rulership status and can dictate to people what they must and must not do about something which is, in the end, a source of entertainment. And suggesting otherwise to the people who don't wanna watch is mainly going to produce laughter.

Posted by: christopher_a_metzler | May 3,

2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

They are merely trying to promote the sport which frankly needs their promotion and much more. I'm sure we can both agree on that.

Posted by: croftonpost | May 3, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe the venom coming from some of you concerning the Freedom. At least I now know where many of the SI regulars stand with respect to women's soccer. Not pretty, not pretty at all.

Posted by: blackandred777 | May 3, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

OK, croftonpost, if you are not at least going to get your dictionary and look up the word "pretext" to discover what that means, I can't help you.

Let's suppose for a moment we do it your way. On the one hand our owner has thrown in the towel on our team, which he has. But on the other hand we bow, genuflect, bring offerings of fattened calves and bushels of fine meal to the great Temple of the Owner in order to appease him and cause us to look upon us with grace and favor yet again. I.e., we pack the stadium out with 45,000 for every miserable DCU loss, of which there are going to be plenty. What is his incentive THEN to improve the team? He hasn't spent an extra DIME, yet the opiated masses are spending hand over fist buying his snake-oil product! Why SHOULD he try to improve the team?

It won't work your way, and your silly mis-reading and misapplying of history provides you no help. We need an owner who is a soccer guy first and foremost, who has the resources and political capital to get a stadium built in DC and who has an unshakeable will to win until all that happens.

Chang is showing us very clearly he is not that guy.

You can try to gin up all the "kumbayah" you want for a wretched, losing soccer team, and its who-cares owner. History, which you vainly claim to be such an expert on, shows that never works.

Posted by: Ron16 | May 3, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Ron16,

Here you go:

Pretext-something that is put forward to conceal a true purpose or object; an ostensible reason; excuse:

Did you not read what I stated? By not attending the fans gave Short and Irsay the ammunition they needed to move the team. It fits the definition. You really need to remove the emotion, it is blinding your reasoning.

Posted by: croftonpost | May 3, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

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