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Posted at 12:00 PM ET, 01/28/2011

Talkin' Terps: Would missing the NCAA tournament be a disappointment?

By Matt Bonesteel

Coming into this season, three things were known about the Maryland men's basketball team:

1. The Terrapins would be without their three top scorers from the previous season, including one of the greatest Maryland players of all-time in Greivis Vasquez.

2. As a freshman, Jordan Williams had established himself as a potent post presence, and it was assumed that he'd continue his upward trajectory as a sophomore (he has). But there were question marks about which player or players would step into the roles vacated by Vasquez and Eric Hayes.

3. If anyone can coach a team with one established player and a bunch of question marks into the NCAA tournament, it's Gary Williams.

Keeping those three established truths in mind, today's topic of conversation is this: If Maryland doesn't make the NCAA tournament this season, would you consider it a disappointment? As a fan, do you expect Maryland to make the tournament every season? Or do you feel that a down year occasionally should be expected from just about every program in the country, and Maryland is no different?

For a look at Maryland's NCAA tournament chances, check out Eric Prisbell's post over at The 68.

By Matt Bonesteel  | January 28, 2011; 12:00 PM ET
Categories:  Gary Williams, Men's basketball  
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Comments

I expect to make the tournament every season.

I did expect Jordan Williams to make the jump this year and am glad he did. It is already a shame how the current record is holding him back from more national recognition. However, there is time left.

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | January 28, 2011 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Yes, it will be a dissapointment if we dont make the tourney! (pretty obvious)

Yes, I expect to make the tourney every year (also pretty obvious)

Yes, I also understand there will be years we will not make the tourney, and no I am not calling for GW to be fired when this happens

Posted by: TerpfanMA | January 28, 2011 12:43 PM | Report abuse

This is a pretty silly question. Of course I would be disappointed if the Terps do not make the big dance. They have not had to deal with any major injuries, and they should have decent senior leadership (3 seniors). Jordon was expected to make an improvement this season. I'm not sure anyone expected him to improve to ACC-POY level, but I don't think any Maryland fan didn't expect JW to make a pretty big jump between last year and this.

Am I going to go crazy and want GW fired if the Terps don't make the tournament, no. I think this year is pretty strange with the ACC being so dreadfully down that even if the Terps finish in the upper half of the conference, they cannot get any boost from their conference victories to get them into the dance. It seems that just about every ACC team lost their improtant non-conference games, and it's hurt every team in the ACC. If the rest of the country wasn't as equally mediocre, the ACC would be lucky to get 2 teams in the tournament.

Posted by: Russtinator | January 28, 2011 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Is this a serious question? No seriously, does Bonesteel really think that if the Terps don't make the NCAA's that it won't be a disappointment?

Posted by: P00PY_MCP00P | January 28, 2011 1:04 PM | Report abuse

What? This blog is a joke. Who is this clown. Of course I expect the Terps to make the tournament every year. Of course it is a disappointment if we don't make the tournament.

Posted by: totalfootballer | January 28, 2011 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Man, my first introduction to Terp Hoops was the teams Lefty coached:
Tom McMillan, Len Elmore, John Lucas, Mo Howard, Jim Obrien, Bob Bodell, Owen Brown

A few years later it was:
Albert King, Ernest Graham, Greg Manning, Buck Williams

A few years later:
UMD winning the ACC tourney, then
Len Bias taking it to the Heels down @ UNC.

Gary Williams brought us back from the Bob Wade fiasco, going to two consecutive Final Fours and winning a National Championship.

And you ask, if I expect us to make the NCAA tourney?????

Look, I don't expect us to be finish ahead of Duke and UNC each year. But please, You DARN right, I expect Terps to make the NCAA tourney each year!!!

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | January 28, 2011 1:20 PM | Report abuse

The fact that the Dookies feel the need to create a facebook page to express that we are not their rivals says it all...

Posted by: ebitda | January 27, 2011 2:03 PM
_____________________________________________

Reminds me of Ricky Gervais MC last week when he signed off, concluding the evening, his last words were,
"And thank you God, for making me an atheist"

Poor Ricky.

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | January 28, 2011 1:22 PM | Report abuse

I think the question is fair. The reality is that even the best programs (UNC, Duke, KY, Kansas) have bad years and occasionally miss the tourney but, overall, you can expect to see those four in your brackets each March.

With that said, I expect the Terps to be more in line with those programs and make the tourney each year. Barring the rough stretch we had with the end of the Gilchrist/Caner-Medley teams and the start of the Vasquez/Hayes era, Gary's kept us at elite program status since 1992-93 (tourney nearly every year, two Final Fours and a title).

Posted by: imageaid | January 28, 2011 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Let's play Jeopardy.

Here's the clue: Dumbest poll question in Terps Insider history.

Barno1: What is "would missing the NCAA tournament be a disappointment?"

Alex Trabek: Yes!

Posted by: Barno1 | January 28, 2011 1:27 PM | Report abuse

With Gary at the helm, I expect them to make it to the tourney every season. With that said, it would be very disappointing to miss it this season since we have one for the best big men in the country and an excellent defense.

Posted by: lavar609 | January 28, 2011 1:27 PM | Report abuse

How many games has Michigan State lost and still ranked #25.Michigan is not a top 50 team but yet they will get in.

Posted by: goodeedward | January 28, 2011 1:30 PM | Report abuse

It sure would be good if the Terps could do it without missing a turn. But we must recognize the ever increasing athletic parity throughout the country. Small differences in talent and coaching among teams and conferences means that most teams can reasonably expect something like 50% wins and 50% losses. A blown call, an athlete having an off game can determine the outcome.

Posted by: AncientTerp | January 28, 2011 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Here's another way of looking at Maryland's odds of making the NCAA tournament. There are 345 division 1 teams and the 'best' 68 make the tourney. So a team must (well, should) place in the top 20% to get in. Is it reasonable to expect a team of 12 with annual turnover of about 3 players (on average) to place in the top 20% every year, without fail? Everyone knows this, but it doesn't seem to influence our expectations very much.

One more point: if academic standards were equal throughout the NCAA (consider KY) we'd see much different win-loss records than we now observe.

Posted by: AncientTerp | January 28, 2011 1:44 PM | Report abuse

We should make the tournament every year. There shouldn't be a debate about this. The top teams do that and very rarely have a drop off because of a coaching change or something extreme that happened.

Posted by: DiehardTerp | January 28, 2011 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Let's play Jeopardy.

Here's the clue: Dumbest poll question in Terps Insider history.

Barno1: What is "would missing the NCAA tournament be a disappointment?"

Alex Trabek: Yes!

Posted by: Barno1 | January 28, 2011 1:27 PM
=========================


Sharon Osbourne: I'll take the letter after B for 400 dollars Alex

Alex Trebek: The word CAT is found under this letter in the Dictionary. (Connery buzzes in). Sean Connery.

Sean Connery: I believe you'd find it in the R section.

Alex Trebek: No not In the Rs.

Sean Connery: Not in the Rs. That's not what your mother said.

Posted by: P00PY_MCP00P | January 28, 2011 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Of course the Terps missing the tournament would be a disappointment...

There's absolutely no reason on earth (except of course for Gary's inability to recruit and coach players) for Maryland not to win the tournament every year...

Posted by: CapsNut | January 28, 2011 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Too too funny Poopy!

Here are the # of times in the last 11 years that teams have made the tournament:

11/11: MSU, Kansas, Duke, Texas, Wisconsin, Gonzaga; 10/11: Arizona, Kentucky; 9/11: Florida, Oklahoma, Illinois, Xavier; 8/11: UNC, UConn, UCLA, Maryland, Louisville, Oklahoma St., Syracuse, Stanford. That's the top 20.

The last 7 years has brought other schools into the same grouping. These include: Villanova, Memphis, Pitt, Tennessee, BC, WVA and Texas A&M.

Posted by: petecard | January 28, 2011 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Disappointment yes, surprise No...Since 2003, here is how Gary's Terps have been doing:

2003-04 20-12 7-9 24 19 Gary Williams NCAA 2nd Round 4
2004-05 19-13 7-9 - - Gary Williams NIT
2005-06 19-13 8-8 - - Gary Williams NIT
2006-07 25-9 10-6 20 17 Gary Williams NCAA 2nd Round 4
2007-08 19-15 8-8 - - Gary Williams NIT
2008-09 20-13 7-9 - - Gary Williams NCAA 2nd Round 10
2009-10 24-9 13-3 20 20 Gary Williams NCAA 2nd Round 4

If he keeps up his trend, looks like its the NIT this year and maybe back to the NCAA's for a 2nd round lose. Go terps!!!

Posted by: cm88 | January 28, 2011 2:59 PM | Report abuse

At least the tourney every year is the goal. At least.

Posted by: jpfterps | January 28, 2011 3:00 PM | Report abuse

The ACC is a complete joke this year. How does beating an awful UVA team all of a sudden bump the Terps into discussion for the big dance?

Maryland needed to win one of their major non-conf games(Nova', Illinois, Pitt, Temple) to be in the discussion. As of now, Duke is only ranked team left on their schedule. Their best win this season is Clemson or Penn St. That does not sound like a tourney team...

Posted by: nike12 | January 28, 2011 3:08 PM | Report abuse

There's no question that we expect to go to the tourney every year. If we were a program that would be ahppy just to break even every year, then it's OK not to make it. But with the talent that we have on the team year after year, there's really no excuse not to go. Yes we lost Greivis and Eric, but the other guys should have learned to step up.

That said, I believe we still have a chance. We've improved much better the last couple of games. Bowie is finally showing some outside shooting, and others have contributed, esp. with teams now doubling down on Jordan. Win Saturday, and we have momentum going into the Duke game. If we can win at least 11 of the next 12 games heading into the ACC tourney, we should be able to get in.

Posted by: ecglotfelty | January 28, 2011 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Great point Ecglotfelty,,,unfortunately, Gary only can get 3/4 star guys that take years to develop, if they develop. Teams like Ohio State lose the best player in the country, Greg Oden, and get Turner, so they compete again, then they lose Turner and bring in Sull, and look where they are.

I will get called a moron again, but it comes down to Gary's recruiting, or lack of recruiting. But I guess we can wait another 10-20 years for all the stars to allign and we get lucky with a bunch of seniors and some freak like Wilcox will show up again, then we will compete for a Nat title again.

Thats right Gary saved Md from all the penalties that MD got, so he gets a lifetime pass,,,too bad Ohio State never got penalized, oh wait,,,well it took Matta yeaarrss to turn it around...oh wait nevermind,,,well the Big Ten is much more of a basketball conf than the ACC...damn wrong again.

I guess you guys are all right, we would never recover from Gary getting fired!!!

Posted by: cm88 | January 28, 2011 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Cant wait for Russ and Barno's response :) Go Average for 8 years now Terps woohoo!!!

Posted by: cm88 | January 28, 2011 3:23 PM | Report abuse

cm,

with all those 5 stars recruits, how many National Championships did Ohio State win?

Is that not the goal?

Posted by: fushezzi | January 28, 2011 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Let me do Barno's response for him: CM88 is the biggest idiot ever!, how can you forget that in 2000-2002 Md was awesome under Gary, whats wrong with living in the distant past and living off old dreams. I mean come on Gary rocks and who cares if we never compete for ACC titles or NCAA titles anymore, Gary won opps I mean tied Duke last year for the reg season title and he won coach of the year in the worst ACC division ever, so he is the man!!! Come on CM, why cant you love Gary more than the team, and except mediocracy like I do...Go GARY..opps I mean Go TERPS!

Posted by: cm88 | January 28, 2011 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Would you like me to name all the schools that have won titles with 5 star recruits or are you realizing that was a pretty bad statement or question you asked now?

Posted by: cm88 | January 28, 2011 3:30 PM | Report abuse

BTW, Wilcox would have been a 5 star recruit/genetic freak with all the technology/internet information nowadays. He was rated #23 out of HS in the Top 100, sounds like a 5 star guy to me.

Posted by: cm88 | January 28, 2011 3:33 PM | Report abuse

And to answer your question, the goal is to win ACC and NCAA tourn titles, but to win you must first be able to realistically compete. When was the last time we had a chance of realistically competing for either title? Thats the issue!

Posted by: cm88 | January 28, 2011 3:37 PM | Report abuse

By the way, when I posted the tournament appearances for the last 11 years that was a concession to all of the FOG's on this board. I'm sure I don't have to remind you that if we took only the last 7 years we fall out of the group of perennials. And if we miss this year that will be missing half the time in the last 8 years. I guess I don't have to mention the problem with our performance once we get to the tournament. Let me know if you need to be reminded...

Posted by: petecard | January 28, 2011 3:59 PM | Report abuse

cm, I'm saying that not every team needs 5 star recruits. Gary already proved he doesnt need 5 star recruits to win a National Championship, which is exactly why I dont care if Gary can only get 3/4 star guys. If your point proves anything its that Thad Matta isn't that great of a coach considering he hasn't won anything with all those 5 star recruits.

Posted by: fushezzi | January 28, 2011 4:05 PM | Report abuse

the goal is to win ACC and NCAA tourn titles, but to win you must first be able to realistically compete. When was the last time we had a chance of realistically competing for either title?
-------------------------------

Who cares about the ACC tournament title. We won the ACC Championship last year.

Posted by: fushezzi | January 28, 2011 4:07 PM | Report abuse

We won last year??? oh I thought we tied Duke.


Petecard, is this the mediocracy youre talking about, ugh!! :

2003-04 20-12 7-9 24 19 Gary Williams NCAA 2nd Round 4
2004-05 19-13 7-9 - - Gary Williams NIT
2005-06 19-13 8-8 - - Gary Williams NIT
2006-07 25-9 10-6 20 17 Gary Williams NCAA 2nd Round 4
2007-08 19-15 8-8 - - Gary Williams NIT
2008-09 20-13 7-9 - - Gary Williams NCAA 2nd Round 10
2009-10 24-9 13-3 20 20 Gary Williams NCAA 2nd Round 4

If he keeps up his trend, looks like its the NIT this year and maybe back to the NCAA's for a 2nd round loss next year. Go terps!!!

Posted by: cm88 | January 28, 2011 4:23 PM | Report abuse

It's like groundhog day in here. The same old haters, spouting the same old crappolla.

Posted by: Section505203 | January 28, 2011 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Petecard i love it. You know how I know we'll end up in the tourney this year? Because you Petecard are back to calling people FOGs, blasting Gary and the program, and talking about 4 NITs in 8 years. One would think you'd have learned your lesson by now to stop with the 4 NITs in x amount of years talk, after all, he's only won a share of the ACC title and ACC coach of the year since the last time you were in attack-Gary mode.

Also love that now you're no longer talking about post-national championship decline, no...you're talking about post 2003 as well. That way, you get to take out the very good 2003 season too and can say 4 out of 8 years in the NIT (even though that hasn't happened yet).

Honestly I'm not interested in starting up with you again, it's too time consuming..but i will say this, it's interesting you said something to the effect of "garo1 is back again" the other day. When the reality is the old Gary-hating Petecard is the one who is back. I've never left..I've always defended Gary. But you go off and on again on your attacks of him and those that defend him, depending on how the Terps have looked in the last few weeks. When we lose a few games, that's when you attack. When we're 13-3 in the ACC like last year, you're silent in your criticisms of him.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 28, 2011 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Barno, I am not blasting Gary and the program. I am rooting for the team. I hope they make a deep run in the tourney. I did post some facts and I used the 11 year performance. I didn't know FOG is a derogatory terms. I didn't talk about Koolaid. And my comment about Garo was not even on this board. It was a comment on a Mike Wise piece, who I can't stand. It was only because you were blasting a guy for making a negative comment about GW. Seriously, Barno, look at my words again and explain why they are ripping anyone. Tell me where my facts are wrong. Now there are people blasting GW and the program, but I haven't been one of them.

Posted by: petecard | January 28, 2011 5:13 PM | Report abuse

My money is on Gary getting this team to the Tourney this year. This isn't his first Rodeo. They are not dead yet and "The Man" will coach them up and have them make a serious run at it, when all is said and done. Bring on the hate, that is when GW is at his best.

You same fools were hating on him early last season and all he did was win the ACC and coach of the year.

As a former Nats reliver Joey Eischen once said "suck on it and like it."

Posted by: Section505203 | January 28, 2011 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Pete,

Can you re-run your stats over the last 17 years (since UMD came off probation and Gary had all his own recruits)?

Terps are 14 NCAAs in 17 years....82% by my math....

How many schools are better?

If you want to look at past 7 years, do you mind if I look at past 2 years?


just sayin........

Posted by: TerpfanMA | January 28, 2011 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Won't argue with you Terpfan. But my stats only cover the last 11 years because that's how long I have been running my NCAA Pool. I guess even though I am a politically slightly right of center that I must have some Commie in me... Because I think a 5 year plan/view has some merit. Here is how I approach the overall situation: at some point, I dont know when, our BB program will either show some good results in the tournament or it won't. GW will either lead us back to an elite status or he won't. I hope he does but I wouldn't put my own money on it. I can be patient as we see what Kevin Anderson means by the word "greatness."

Posted by: petecard | January 28, 2011 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Numbers tell different stories to different people...I understand your point...I just give Gary the benefit of the doubt because his overall record is very good...we are always pretty exciting to watch (well at least 99% of the time), he has delivered a NC and last year we had a very successful season

Posted by: TerpfanMA | January 28, 2011 6:55 PM | Report abuse

I just finished taking a poop and reading Simpsons Episode Guide books while I did so.

Posted by: P00PY_MCP00P | January 28, 2011 7:41 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like a nice start to the weekend PMcP.

And yes, I'm being serious.

Posted by: fushezzi | January 28, 2011 7:50 PM | Report abuse

It's like groundhog day in here. The same old haters, spouting the same old crappolla.

Posted by: Section505203

Fine, I will give you some new hate. (In truth I think Gary did a word of good for Maryland and almost made the program a power in college basketball. Sadly, he failed and the program is now closer to being outside the top 50 than elite. It is time to move on)

This better be considered a huge disappointment of a season.

The problem with this whole rebuilding season type excuse is that last year was trumped as such a huge success with an average team. Plus the years before were bad luck in recruiting and Gary really got the most out of some bad players. If Maryland overachieved last year and Gary should be lauded for being such a great coach, then he should be attacked for being such a horrible recruiter. This is 7 straight years of crappy players, excuse me "hidden gems", which Gary consistently molds into an average enough team to not get fired.

Last year he managed to amazingly mold 3 seniors and a star frosh into a decent team that had a decent season (crappy early, but good in the ACC) and one amazing game against Duke. For this he is forgiven for not having put together a single decent recruiting class for almost 10 years? Being good enough to make the NCAA tournament should be the unquestioned minimum expect every year. Some years they may fall short, others exceed this, but it should always be disappointing to not make the NCAAs comfortably.

Posted by: Dancy1 | January 28, 2011 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Dancy

The problem with measuring recruiting is two-fold:

1) First, it is not a science...last years class had Padgett rated higher than Williams and this year Parker was rated higher than everyone

2) Second, it does not take into account the intangibles..some kids are highly rated but you just dont want them....Lance "Born Ready" Stephenson is an example...I give the benefit of the doubt to the coach in making these calls...he knows what he wants and who will benefit the team the most

Have their been highly rated kids that we wanted but didnt get???? Of course...but there are only x number of 4/5 Star recruits and everybody wants them...so realistically if you have 2 or 3 scholarships to offer, how many are you going to get? This year, we got Parker and next year we got Faust....is Gary the #1 Recruiter in college basketball? No , but hes no slouch either...and I dont think you need 4 McD AAs to have a successful team

Posted by: TerpfanMA | January 28, 2011 8:19 PM | Report abuse

I agree with everything you said Mr. TerpfanMA. Maybe I didn't clearly explain my complaint. People claim that Gary Williams is some awesome coach that can do wonders with sub-standard talent. Thus it doesn't matter that he only gets decent to average recruiting classes. There have also been tons of excuses given for him, like losing assistants and playing by the rules everyone else breaks and not catering to arrogant kids.

My point is that even if we accept all these things, he still needs to deliver better teams. That is his job and he gets paid a LOT to do it. If his recruiting is/was fine, his teams should have done better the last 7 or 8 seasons. If he passes on so many players because he wants certain ones to mold then he needs to be held accountable for when he can't mold them into better team. He can't be both given a pass for recruiting his type of guys and given a pass for having sub-par talent. Ideally neither would fly, but certainly not both.

He recruits these players and knows they can play at most 4 seasons. It is not like Maryland unexpectedly lost 3 underclassmen last year. It was 3 seniors that had used up their eligibility. For that matter, Vasquez almost left a year earlier and Milbourne was played out of position for 2 years. This is not rocket science. Holes have not been adequately replaced for many years. If Jordan leaves this year then next year's mediocrity will be excused because he can't be replaced in one year. There is always an excuse. Gary should be held as accountable as he holds his players and staff when he is screaming at them in the middle of games.

Posted by: Dancy1 | January 29, 2011 1:08 AM | Report abuse

I expect MD to be in hte tourney every year and it is disappointing to miss out. Something is wrong with MD athletics. Gary is a great coach- he is getting zero suppport from the clowns that run the University. It is pathetic how little MD took advantage of their National Championship- I guess 1 is enough for the higher ups at MD. Gary has had to defend himself every year- the discontent coming from Yow to other silly stories year after year, some if not all all originating from the inside at MD. Too bad bad Bob Huggins isn't available- our moronic AD and a certain very rich alum could come up with a plan to fire Gary and hire Huggins, a on the edge very successful coach in what would be termed a business decision. But Huggins would turn it down and we could end with Karl Hobbs- or bring back Bob Wade! He was moe qualified to coach at MD than Kevin Anderson is to be AD. Kevin Anderson is a complete idiot- by the Kevin, is yuor 'ask the AD' site back up? I bet not- smart move.

Posted by: rveatch | January 29, 2011 7:14 AM | Report abuse

I am glad to see some rational thinking from some of the Terp fans. CM and Dancy1 set the record straight it is an average program over the last 8 years. 4 NIT and 4 NCAA 2nd game out. You may not realize it but FL State has a better overall record than MD during the last 6 years. Gary simply can not recruit players every year and keep developing talent to keep the program at a high level year in year out. Mike K can do that. Would I love a Mike K program at MD yes. We may view Duke as our rival but they do not see MD that way we simply do not effect their program that much. Sure every now and then we upset them but they still go to the big Dance and come close to the final four most years. MD on the other hand is in the NIT or is 2 games and out at the NCAA.

One can defend Gary as a great coach of average talent, maybe he is but for all his skills his record is average at best over the past 8 years.

To give him an average grade you must feel somewhere between the 40th and 80th best team year in year out is average. That is where we have finished the past 8 years. co ACC champion is something but realize the ACC is not what it use to be, most ACC teams are out of the NCCA tournament by round 2 except for Duke and NC.

In summary as a Terp fan you must have a second team to root for or your rooting season will be short most years.

Posted by: geoski | January 29, 2011 9:33 AM | Report abuse

GW is a great coach who runs a clean program. Recruiting blue-chips suffers because GW does not play the AAU suck-up game. That lengthy Post hack piece made that abundantly clear. I'm proud of what GW has done for UMD and I'm happy to see him build up and around players like Joe Smith, Juan Dixon, Vasquez, and Jordan Williams. Not top-shelf recruits, but coachable hard workers who blossomed. If that means less wins, and less tourney visits, oh well. A clean, honest, well-coached program that can scrap with anyone is inspiring, at least to me.

Posted by: gavinjs | January 29, 2011 9:45 AM | Report abuse

The Terps are exhibiting signs of a typical late season push which is what Gary William's Teams are known for. I like the talent on this team now and our additions for next year. I think Gary's recruiting philosophy works best for him with 3/4 star players and coaching them to be their best. The 5 stars are usually one and done and that is not what we need. Gary usually does not play the few 5 star players that he gets to try to teach them (think Mike Jones). Yes it will be a dissapointment to miss the tournament but I will take the Terp program as it is any day over Duke, NC, Kansas. Those schools are just too easy to hate and Terp players always play with that chip on their shoulder from not being a 5 star. Stay the course Terp fans.

Posted by: torope | January 29, 2011 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Some very good posts from Terpfan and Dancy and, while I don't agree with rveatch, it is fair to wonder how much better off the program would be with better support from the Athletic Department during the Yow years. Personally, I am giving KA the benefit of the doubt until we see how Edsall does. As for goski's comment, while I agree with much of what he says, Florida State has been in only two NCAA Tournaments in the last 7 years and has not been to a Sweet 16. If by overall record one means won/loss record, to me that is not very meaningful. The early season is filled with hapless non-conference opponents (we played a pretty good schedule this year but still had a lot of patsies, as does everyone else)and winning 20 games means you are a bubble team. I have to say, with a few rants and blow-ups in this thread, the posters managed to maintain a pretty respectful exchange of ideas and opinions. Let's give ourselves a little pat on the back.

Posted by: petecard | January 29, 2011 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Thats a good point Pete....Now that we have gotten rid of Yow, lets see how things change

Posted by: TerpfanMA | January 29, 2011 11:08 AM | Report abuse

If I'm a school in a BCS conference, I better be disappointed if my team doesn't make the tournament.

This comes down to one thing..recruiting.

1. Last year was a key recruiting class. Williams was a great find, but we should have recruited freshman guards to back up Vasquez and Hayes so we don't have to rely on true Freshman.

2. Is it me, or does every other team in Division I college basketball have a minimum of 3 players who can hit an open 3 point shot? Maryland is lucky to get one per year, and this year we don't have anyone. Anyone remember how many 3 point shots Boston College hit against us in that win earlier this year.....

Posted by: Terp97 | January 29, 2011 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Some funny posts in here... I won't beat dead horse.

Posted by: SirPelleas | January 29, 2011 11:16 AM | Report abuse

F Maryland and who cares if they make the big boy tournament? What is this bunch going to do if they make it? Nothing. The same as they did with the "great" Central American dude that was there.

Posted by: jwing14 | January 29, 2011 11:47 AM | Report abuse

F Maryland and who cares if they make the big boy tournament? What is this bunch going to do if they make it? Nothing. The same as they did with the "great" Central American dude that was there.

Posted by: jwing14 | January 29, 2011 11:48 AM | Report abuse

F Maryland and who cares if they make the big boy tournament? What is this bunch going to do if they make it? Nothing. The same as they did with the "great" Central American dude that was there.

Posted by: jwing14 | January 29, 2011 11:49 AM | Report abuse

jwing14 - you obviously need to brush up on your geography because Greivis Vasquez is Venezuelan, which is located South America. He was also a great player, you moron.

Posted by: SirPelleas | January 29, 2011 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Terp97, I think you have to give GW a break on the guard thing. He thought Bowie could play the point and that's where the season started. Bowie at PG and Tucker at SG. It didn't work. But, it wasn't unreasonable to think that it could.

Posted by: petecard | January 29, 2011 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Selection Sunday is going to be so much fun on this board. I can't wait. I just want to give a special thanks to cm88, geoski, dancy1 for providing the kinds of comments this board was lacking for the last year or so. People have been far too rationale about Terps bball ever since we started dominating the ACC last season. It's boring when everyone is rational, that's why we need the Gary haters on here to make an example of after it becomes clear how wrong they were.

To the Gary haters, please...I beg you...check in on this blog on Selection Sunday. Its going to be fun. These declarations about 4 NITs in 8 years and how horrible this season is even though we're not even half way through the ACC will be fun to look at 6 weeks from now.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 29, 2011 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I just finished taking a poop and reading Simpsons Episode Guide books while I did so.

Posted by: P00PY_MCP00P | January 28, 2011 7:41 PM | Report abuse

Poopy those episode guides are amazing. The best was the complete trivia guide that came out after the 8th season.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 29, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse

"Would missing the NCAA tournament be a disappointment?"
-->YES!!! We're a basketball school. I think the bare minimum is to go to Tourney every year and hopefully advance further than that.

Posted by: mle916 | January 29, 2011 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Barno, AGAIN, I dont care if they just make it in to the NCAA's, that may be youre only goal for the team, so if they squeek in again, and lose early, who gives an F???? Real MD fans, want us to compete for the ACC Tourn Title and the NCAA Title every year, not just get into the NCAAs, thats a low bar you and GARY have.

I know we are not going to win every year or even come close some years, I am not that stupid, but it would be nice to go into a year, like we did back in 2001-2002 and think we have a realistic chance to win either!

Sorry but a lot of us dont live in the past,,,distant past! We want a contender now and have been waiting for years to be a consistent contender, which is what a MD basketball program should be,,,I know you will never get it, so just realize you have lower goals than most of us do and lets move on to watching MD go to the NIT or squeek into the NCAA's and we can all laugh at you then when you cheer on Gary and not MD.

Posted by: cm88 | January 29, 2011 1:28 PM | Report abuse

cm88, I really understand where you are coming from. I have said the same thing many times right here in the TI. But Barno and his pals want to win too. They revel in wins and achievement. Their goals are the same as ours. What makes them different is that they are less demanding. One might say they are more patient, but it has been a long stretch since we did anything in the tournament. I made this point earlier: When is it going to be long enough? When will it finally matter that we haven't gotten past the second round? How many years will it take? I really do think that many of our fellow Terps will say is doesn't matter. As long as Gary wants. That's where we differ. But we all want to win.

Posted by: petecard | January 29, 2011 1:45 PM | Report abuse

I just confirmed with my Tech buddy that he was able to get tickets to tomorrow night's game at the Thriller Dome. Who else is coming to town to join me?

Posted by: Terptwin | January 29, 2011 1:47 PM | Report abuse

We want a contender now
cm88

Well, who doesnt?? Is there any team or fan who doesnt want to be a contender? Each season there is 1 NCAA champion and everyone else is left wondering about what could have been...for all of the complaints about Gary, recruiting etc etc etc...the fact is that he has taken us to a place where very few teams get to go...

Consider among active coaches:

Exactly 4 have won more than 1 NC, and of those 4, only 1 has won more than 2!

Only 10 active coaches (including Gary) have ever won an NCAA championship (including the 4 above)!

I am really not sure what all the complaining is about?? Is it because 3 seasons ago, we went to the NIT?

Posted by: TerpfanMA | January 29, 2011 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Consider also that one of those coaches is Roy Williams who went to the NIT last season after winning NC in 2009 and whose team is currently unranked and may not make the tourney this year either....I bet there are some UNC fans stomping their feet and asking that he be fired also

Posted by: TerpfanMA | January 29, 2011 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Good points Terpfan. It's not that we have missed the tournament in 3 of the last 7 years. It's that we have not gotten to even one Sweet 16 when we do get there. We win one and that's it. 7 years. We are all hoping this year will not be the 8th. When will it be too many?

Posted by: petecard | January 29, 2011 2:22 PM | Report abuse

I just finished taking a poop and reading Simpsons Episode Guide books while I did so.

Posted by: P00PY_MCP00P | January 28, 2011 7:41 PM | Report abuse

Poopy those episode guides are amazing. The best was the complete trivia guide that came out after the 8th season.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 29, 2011 12:52 PM
------------

I saw they actually have like a complete set (seasons 1-20) of the episode guide books but they only sell as a complete set for like $100.00 or so.

Posted by: P00PY_MCP00P | January 29, 2011 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Don't hold this against me but I am not a big fan of Simpsons post-Phil Hartman (and Maude Flaunders). The show is still funny but it's not nearly the level it was in its 90s heyday. The best seasons were 3 through 8 in my opinion.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 29, 2011 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Real MD fans, want us to compete for the ACC Tourn Title and the NCAA Title every year, not just get into the NCAAs, thats a low bar you and GARY have.

I know we are not going to win every year or even come close some years, I am not that stupid, but it would be nice to go into a year, like we did back in 2001-2002 and think we have a realistic chance to win either!

Sorry but a lot of us dont live in the past,,,distant past! We want a contender now and have been waiting for years to be a consistent contender, which is what a MD basketball program should be,,,I know you will never get it, so just realize you have lower goals than most of us do and lets move on to watching MD go to the NIT or squeek into the NCAA's and we can all laugh at you then when you cheer on Gary and not MD.

Posted by: cm88 | January 29, 2011 1:28 PM | Report abuse

cm88, I love how you try to speak for "real MD fans." Dude, you've already admitted you haven't been to Comcast Center in years and will only go to see us play against Duke. I don't have lower goals than "most" MD fans. It's you that's out of touch with the mainstream fan. The average Terps fan does not want Gary Williams fired...and if you're a man of you're word, you'll find this out yourself when you pay me a visit next Wednesday at comcast. If you actually show up before tip off, I'll make an announcement during a timeout to the fans around us that you want Gary fired. Let's see how that goes over with MD fans.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 29, 2011 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Also for those who keep complaining about Gary's lack of recruiting...you do realize we have a good chance at having back to back ACC Players of the Year, do you not? Do you also not realize that in the last decade, when we've had more than 1 player in the recruiting class (James Gist 05, Dave Neal 06) Gary has had top 25 recruiting classes every single season but one? Including multiple top 5 recruiting classes (03 and 04).

It really does seem that people like cm88 would rather have the flashy McDonalds All American name like Travis Garrison or Mike Jones rather than the mid level recruit like Greivis Vasquez or Jordan Williams who break records at UMD. Sorry, but I think Gary has shown he knows a little more about recruiting than you do.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 29, 2011 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Sorry Barno, its a little tough to go to Comcast center when you have been living in CA and AZ for the past 12 years, sorry but I actually left the area and still followed the team every year. Now that I am back, I am trying to go to games more, trust me, I grew up going to games with Lefty and teams with Albert King, Bias, Buck, Ben Coleman, etc., so youre a mear pup when it comes to being a MD Fan.

I would be happy to come visit you at the Duke game, just give me the row and seat number so I know who to come see. You can name drop again with the old guy your sitting around, but I am not going to come over and yell wheres Barno haha! Trust me, I will come say hi. Just send the seat/row :)

And you kind of proved my point, yes Gary is a weak recruiter, look at the guys you listed as top recruits, a whos who of guys that are no where now, except for maybe GV, which is to be seen. Above avg player in a weak conf his senior year, big deal, I want great players when the conf is strong. You really think Jordon Williams is a world beater??? He is another Lonnie Baxter, undersized good player with limited hops, but needs players around him to be great. That is why he is struggling now, teams are playing zone on him and some of his weaknesses are starting to show. Again, I love the kid, but he is not a individual dominate type player every night. The only "great" players I can think of that Gary has gotten is Steve Francis, Walt, and Joe Smith....15 years since he has recruited a great player???? At the Univ of MD???? Thats F'in lame/weak and lazy!

TERPSFAN- again, I know we wont win titles every year, but I want to atleast be in contention every year, not squeek into the NCAA's and lose in the second round. Last 8 years either NIT or 2nd round lose in NCAA's,,,,is that what you think is successful coaching for one of the top programs in the country???

Posted by: cm88 | January 29, 2011 4:20 PM | Report abuse

I am watching the NC game, you guys wouldnt want a guy that could get some of those players and the players that Roy has had for the past xxxx years? Yeah Roy is not the best coach, but can you imagine if we had a good coach that could also recruit? Sorry, but MD should be getting some of those "types" of genetic freaks/players! Tired of hearing, wow Gary can really get a lot out of average players,,,yeah a bunch of NITs and 2nd round losses in the NCAA's and early losses in the ACC tourn over the past 8 years, awesome!!! But hey, he tied last year for the reg season ACC title, but lets forget about the beginning of the season before the weak ACC reg season, and lets forget about the ACC tourn, and the NCAA tourn...Gary can sure coach em up,,,point is, Gary shouldnt have to "coach em up"

Posted by: cm88 | January 29, 2011 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Terpfanma,

CKTR - 4
Roy w -2
Calhoun the cheater-2
Billy d with the all-star team that stayed together-2

Did I get it right?

So the six with one- boeheim, GW, izzo, Self, Pitino. Dang who is the other one? Not that any of the above other than Pitino is for sale. I'm fine with GW for life.

Regards-

-hgr

Posted by: HughGRection | January 29, 2011 5:07 PM | Report abuse

"Sorry Barno, its a little tough to go to Comcast center when you have been living in CA and AZ for the past 12 years, sorry but I actually left the area and still followed the team every year."

That's funny, that's not at all what you said last time:

Oh, I havent been to the Comcast center in a while, its hard to watch your team be mediocore for 7-8 years, so I sit at home or at Caddies and get annoyed with the rest of the MD fans that expect more!

Posted by: cm88 | January 24, 2011 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Baaahahahaah! LOL. So now, in addition to being exposed as a complete and utter moron, cm88 is also a liar. Why am I not surprised?

Oh and name-dropping Johnny Holiday? Yeah, he's just so uber-famous, I couldn't help myself. I gave you a landmark bc I am not posting my seat # geek.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 29, 2011 5:55 PM | Report abuse

The only "great" players I can think of that Gary has gotten is Steve Francis, Walt, and Joe Smith....15 years since he has recruited a great player???? At the Univ of MD???? Thats F'in lame/weak and lazy!

TERPSFAN- again, I know we wont win titles every year, but I want to atleast be in contention every year, not squeek into the NCAA's and lose in the second round. Last 8 years either NIT or 2nd round lose in NCAA's,,,,is that what you think is successful coaching for one of the top programs in the country???

Posted by: cm88 | January 29, 2011 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, Juan Dixon wasn't very good at MD. Steve Blake sucked too. And as for Jordan Williams being another Lonnie Baxter, that's just so insulting.

I think we now know the truth about cm88: Duke fan. I suspected this a while ago but now it's becoming more and more obvious. Anyone who doesn't think Juan Dixon was a great player at MD is clearly some loser from some other school posting comments here.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 29, 2011 5:59 PM | Report abuse

...You really think Jordon Williams is a world beater??? He is another Lonnie Baxter, undersized good player with limited hops, but needs players around him to be great. That is why he is struggling now, teams are playing zone on him and some of his weaknesses are starting to show....

Posted by: cm88 | January 29, 2011 4:20 PM

Len Elmore said JW is a legitimate 6'10, so not so much undersized. He didn't do as well in the zone because he wasn't fed the ball, but he still managed dbl/dbls. He didn't get the numbers against VA because of the extra defensive players crowding him, but it opened the floor for the rest of the team.

Posted by: MrScrotums | January 29, 2011 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Ok Barno, I will try to slow down for you geek and moron...I moved back here just a couple of years ago so I havent been to games in years, and since they arent that good, for years, I dont waste my money going to watch a team that the coach doesnt try harder, so I watch on TV or at Caddies, but since my gf got me tickets to the Duke game for a gift, I am going :) Does that help you dbag??? Funny that you once again dont address the questions or give me your seat so you can tell me to my face what a loser I am, just because I want more for my team and disagree with you about Gary.

Yeah, Juan was a very good player...top recruit NOPE, Great individual i.e. didnt need good players around him to be a great player, NOPE,,,Blake very good,,,great individual, NOPE. Sorry but your juvinile attempt to then call me a Duke fan since I am objective and wont say that Jordan Williams is any better than Lonnie Baxter, is commical. Great is someone like Len Bias,,,Jordan is a very good college player and I am very happy to have him, but he is no Len Bias.

Sorry you are obviously a child that cannot stick to subjects and lost all credibility with your idol worship of Gary and any player that plays at MD is the greatest player of all times. I am a huge MD fan but also see players and coaches for their strengths and weaknesses, not a little boy with a woodie like you that believes all athletes are perfect and I dont have a poster of Gary over my bed to look at before I rub one off for the night,,,,have fun with that tonight Barnie!

For you objective, common sense posters....I just think we should have one of the Top 10 programs every year, maybe I do have unrealistic expectations, but not having a Top 10 program for 8 years and going, is very frustrating! Lefty built a great program that was based on being the UCLA of the East,,,,Gary did a great job of rebuilding after our sanctions, but now he has a long run of going backwards and doing a very average job at coaching and recruiting. A good amount of people feel that way, not just me, but I know others dont, no biggie,,,,but when is enough of going to NIT's or losing early in ACC tourn or NCAA tourns, before we let Gary go out to pasture,,,,thats my only point.

Go MD,,opps that right Barno exposed me,,,Go Duke!!!! even if I think they are complete Dbags like Barnie :)

Posted by: cm88 | January 29, 2011 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Mrscrotums..funny name:)

I am not attacking J Williams, love the kid and his game, but I was just trying to state that he doesnt look like a "dominant" Ncaa or Nba player. He reminds me of Lonnie, great hands, good feet, good body, but nothing mind blowing. If he is a legit 6'10, I am surprised, seems like last year Milbourne and him where eye to eye. Sene from VA, looked a legit 7 feet and definitely a couple of inches taller.

Again, love the kid and not blaming him for him getting contained a little bit, but he definitely needs to develp a jumper/range and of course a foul shot,,,ugh! Which is good for us, because if he where better, he would be gone next year. And with him gone next year, it would be 2 years of NIT,,,unless we sneak in this year.

I loved Baxter and also this kid, but they do not have the genetic gifts the Wilcox has/had,,,too bad he didnt stick around to develop them!

Posted by: cm88 | January 29, 2011 6:32 PM | Report abuse

This was the most intentionally funny part of Certified Moron88's post:

"Sorry but your juvinile attempt to then call me a Duke fan sinceI am objective and wont say that Jordan Williams is any better than Lonnie Baxter, is commical."

He actually thought I was serious when I said comparing Jordan Williams to Lonnie Baxter is "oh so insulting." HA!!! Like I said, this guy is just not very smart. Hey genius, Lonnie Baxter was a 3 time All ACC, 2 time NCAA Regional MVP and has his jersey hanging from the rafters at Comcast.

Please, for the love of god, go back to the Duke blogs where you belong. You are embarrassing yourself.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 29, 2011 6:38 PM | Report abuse

*that should say:

This is the most UNintentionally part of Certified Moron88's post

Posted by: Barno1 | January 29, 2011 6:44 PM | Report abuse

"Yes, it will be a dissapointment if we dont make the tourney! (pretty obvious)

Yes, I expect to make the tourney every year (also pretty obvious)

Yes, I also understand there will be years we will not make the tourney, and no I am not calling for GW to be fired when this happens


Posted by: TerpfanMA | January 28, 2011 12:43 PM"
-->Well said. I am not advocating for Gary's firing either but I think he gets a free pass compared to Ralph (who I didn't think should've been fired, who other debate I know). When was the last time we made a run in the tourney, last year we should've made the Sweet 16 with the lineup we had. This year ill probably be satsified with the second round, but bottomline is we need to get the Sweet 16 atleast every 3rd year and get to the Final Four I would say every 6-7th year to consider ourselves a basketball power.

Posted by: break20 | January 29, 2011 7:45 PM | Report abuse

"I think the question is fair. The reality is that even the best programs (UNC, Duke, KY, Kansas) have bad years and occasionally miss the tourney but, overall, you can expect to see those four in your brackets each March."
-->Those four teams with richer basketball histories than us, don't just expect to make it every year, they expect to have a decent run. You think Duke will be satsified with less than a national championship this year?

Posted by: break20 | January 29, 2011 8:51 PM | Report abuse

"Here's another way of looking at Maryland's odds of making the NCAA tournament. There are 345 division 1 teams and the 'best' 68 make the tourney."
-->But it's not the best 68, it's the best 35(I believe it is) at-large teams. The rest are automatic conference ones.

"One more point: if academic standards were equal throughout the NCAA (consider KY) we'd see much different win-loss records than we now observe."
-->I hate this argument, I saw it when I was at Colorado, every school it seems like to think their school has higher academic standards than most. Somehow schools like Duke, Vandy, Stanford, and UCLA can compete with higher "academic standards" than Maryland, so we should stop complaining about this.

Posted by: break20 | January 29, 2011 8:58 PM | Report abuse

"Disappointment yes, surprise No"
-->Well said, our expectations have been lowered evidently. We seem to accept going to the 2nd round as an "accomplishment" now, when 15 years ago it would've been seen as a bad year. We need to get back to the days where going to the Sweet 16 was a decent year and going to the Elite 8 wasn't out of the norm and the Final Four seemed within reach. Something tells me the last thing I said, won't happen anytime soon.

Posted by: break20 | January 29, 2011 9:03 PM | Report abuse

Boy Barno and cm88, you guys are really splitting hairs. Neither of you is gong to convince the other and neither of you are morons. You both make good points from different perspectives. Barno is the ultimate GW guy. Cm88 is one of the guys like me that wants better recruiting and tournament results. So let me pose this question to both of you and the rest of this board: How are we going to do tomorrow night?

Posted by: petecard | January 29, 2011 9:17 PM | Report abuse

"Terps are 14 NCAAs in 17 years....82% by my math....

How many schools are better?

If you want to look at past 7 years, do you mind if I look at past 2 years?


just sayin........

Posted by: TerpfanMA | January 28, 2011 6:01 PM"
-->That's fine just look at the past two, good regular seasons especially last year and below standard post-seasons. I am not satsified with two second round exits. Look as I said before, I wouldn't fire Gary, but if we hold him to say the same standards we hold Fridge to as in recent success, it's not that good. Just seems to me, Gary gets a bit of a free pass. If anything expectations should be higher since we are a basketball school.

Posted by: break20 | January 29, 2011 9:24 PM | Report abuse

The last time we played Duke, the game before it against lowly Colgate we brought more energy than any other game this season bc, as some players said afterward, they didn't want to face Gary's wrath leading into the Duke game. Though the caliber of opponent is better this time, I would expect a lot of energy and focus from our players this time. The Gtech-Md games are almost always close games, so I'd also expect that this time, with MD squeaking out another road victory.

We owe them for the ACC tourney last year...time for some payback.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 29, 2011 9:30 PM | Report abuse

"GW is a great coach who runs a clean program. Recruiting blue-chips suffers because GW does not play the AAU suck-up game. That lengthy Post hack piece made that abundantly clear. I'm proud of what GW has done for UMD and I'm happy to see him build up and around players like Joe Smith, Juan Dixon, Vasquez, and Jordan Williams. Not top-shelf recruits, but coachable hard workers who blossomed. If that means less wins, and less tourney visits, oh well. A clean, honest, well-coached program that can scrap with anyone is inspiring, at least to me.

Posted by: gavinjs | January 29, 2011 9:45 AM"
-->Joe Smith, former #1 overall draft pick wasn't a "top shelf recruit?" Dixon and Vasquez we're in-state players. JW is the first good recruit he's had from out-of-state and even semi-out of the area in a while. Someone like Eric Hayes might not be technically an in-state recruit, but he's close enough that I don't think it was hard to sell him to the program. Other than this I agree with what your saying. Part of the problem is we can get the "big name," not saying we should run a D-League team like Cal does at UK, but a bigger name or two, might give us some more attention. Wasn't this what KA was complaining about with the football program, it lacked sizzle?

Posted by: break20 | January 29, 2011 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Selection Sunday is going to be so much fun on this board. I can't wait. I just want to give a special thanks to cm88, geoski, dancy1 for providing the kinds of comments this board was lacking for the last year or so. People have been far too rationale about Terps bball ever since we started dominating the ACC last season. It's boring when everyone is rational, that's why we need the Gary haters on here to make an example of after it becomes clear how wrong they were.

To the Gary haters, please...I beg you...check in on this blog on Selection Sunday. Its going to be fun. These declarations about 4 NITs in 8 years and how horrible this season is even though we're not even half way through the ACC will be fun to look at 6 weeks from now.

Posted by: Barno1

Are you calling me irrational and a Gary hater? The silliness of name calling aside, please show me what I posted that was irrational. I do not hate Gary, I just think he hasn't done a good enough job in at least one of recruiting, coaching or team building in the last 8 or so years. This is evident in what I consider to be substandard performances by his teams.

Regardless, I will absolutely check back in some time around selection Sunday. I sincerely hope that we will have nothing to celebrate then, as the Terps will have long before locked up an NCAA berth. I don't think it will happen, but I certainly can hope for the best while expecting similar results to the last 7+ seasons.

Posted by: Dancy1 | January 30, 2011 2:00 AM | Report abuse

"Gratitude is the mother of all virtues." G.K. Chesterton

Terps fans should be so grateful for Gary Williams. His teams never quit. Every ACC team except Duke, N.C., and FSU (don't underestimate Leonard Hamilton) would fire their coach and take Gary right now, if given the chance.

Let's think about Maryland's loss to Mich. St. in the tournament last year. Maryland never quit. They went on an incredible streak in the last two minutes to close a 10 point gap and take the lead with seconds left. The Terps looked calm, classy - they were men. Sparty won on a last second shot. It was the game of the tournament. I've never been more proud of the Terps.

One of those outs was against Syracuse with it's 2-3 zone, but again, the Terps never quit.

No one wants to play Maryland in the tournament. Gary's teams are ready, and will play a scheme that will exploit your weakness. Just ask Coach K, who was lucky to avoid a home-team loss at Cameron, and whose team was so depleted that they lost to FSU.

Be grateful for Gary Williams.

Posted by: flynnie321 | January 30, 2011 7:22 AM | Report abuse

Excuse me, did the first point in this refer to Greivis Vasquez as "one of the greatest Maryland players of all-time"? I'm sorry, I was laughing too hard to continue. As for the Maryland basketball program, it was time for Gary to go 5 years ago. Theres' no excuse to let your program fall apart after winning a national title. That gives you the foundation from which to recruit the best talent in America, but he couldn't even keep the best talent in Maryland in the state. Perhaps the names Rudy Gay, Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant ring a bell.

Posted by: Mountaineer87 | January 30, 2011 11:27 AM | Report abuse

"Terps fans should be so grateful for Gary Williams. His teams never quit. Every ACC team except Duke, N.C., and FSU (don't underestimate Leonard Hamilton) would fire their coach and take Gary right now, if given the chance."
-->I would tend to agree with you except for one crucial thing: his age. I don't know many teams want to bring in a coach of his age to their teams.

Recent success (or lack of) might hurt his chances to on landing another job (Where is Nolan Richardson after all?, who won two championships).


"No one wants to play Maryland in the tournament. Gary's teams are ready, and will play a scheme that will exploit your weakness."
-->Maybe first round teams who we are expected to beat, but considering we can't make it out of the second round in the last seven years, that might be a bit of a stretch. Gary couldn't capitialize on the national championship success, when we should've gotten top notch recruits.

Posted by: break20 | January 30, 2011 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Excuse me, did the first point in this refer to Greivis Vasquez as "one of the greatest Maryland players of all-time"? I'm sorry, I was laughing too hard to continue.

Posted by: Mountaineer87 | January 30, 2011 11:27 AM | Report abuse

He's the only player in the history of college basketball to compile at least 2,000 points, 700 assists and 600 rebounds. Think about that for second once you're done laughing. "He is one of the greatest players to ever play in the ACC"...those aren't my words, those are the words of Coach Mike Kryzewksi...might have heard of him? Statistically speaking, there is no question he is one of the all time MD greats. Gary puts him in the top 5-7 MD players..and I think that's about right.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 30, 2011 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Barno is right on that one. He could deliver in the big game and big moment and he could make you tear your hair out. His game is like a passion play...

Posted by: petecard | January 30, 2011 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Good programs miss the NCAA's from time to time, particularly when they've just lost most of their starters from the previous year. I think MD squeeks in this year, but if not, I'll be the LAST person calling for Gary's ouster.

We are lucky to have him. And anyone who disagrees ought to look at the record of every other coach in the ACC not named Roy Williams or Mike Krzyzewski. How would you like one of their records?

All of the above applies to the Ravens. People have been looking for ways to complain about the Ravens, since they lost in the playoffs. But I thank the good Lord that we have such a great NFL organization in this town. Just look across the street at Oriole Park for what can happen to a top pro sports team when leadership changes.

Gary Williams and Ozzie Newsome have a lifetime free pass in my book. They've earned it.

Posted by: paul6554 | January 30, 2011 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Barno, again you show how blinded you are by your love for Gary. Of course Gary is going to say that, since GV played for him. Here is just a quick list of MD players better than GV, not just stats mean youre a good player, so please dont be that novice. GV has better stats than Micheal Jordan.

John Lucas
Len Elmore
Len Bias
Joe Smith
Albert King
Walt Williams
Juan Dixon
Steve Francis
Buck Williams

Looks like Gary is wrong again, there is your 5-7 that are better than him. And I would take Blake in a heart beat over GV, Adrian Branch over GV...sorry but you kids need to remember there was life and MD basketball before Gary land.

Posted by: cm88 | January 30, 2011 9:37 PM | Report abuse

And if you want me to name 30-40 players better than GV in ACC history, that would be too easy, again Mike K and other coaches use the word Greatest every year without really thinking.

Paul6554, Sorry to disagree with you but its not like Gary has won multiple ACC or National Championships, he has won 1 of each in 21 years, thats not that great, sorry but this program should be competing and winning an ACC title every 3-5 years, like Duke and UNC. And we should be atleast making the Sweet 16 every couple of years, not 8 years ago.

Gary got paid and is now coaching an average program, and its his program, so no one else to blame. A lot of us fans, not all, want better.

Posted by: cm88 | January 30, 2011 9:49 PM | Report abuse

You are cleerly and expert in Terps history with listing Steve Francis as a better all time Terp than Grievis Vasquez. Hah! You must be kidding...you really tried to claim a guy who played here for one year was higher up on the list of all time greats than a 4 year starter, 3 time All ACC, and ACC player of the year. Baaaaaahahaha!

Let's see...only 4 terps in history have ever been ACC player of the year...Including Grievis. I think maybe you didn't follow the terps as closely as you think when u were "in CA and AZ the last 12 years". But when you make it out to comcast for the first time this decade on Wednesday night you can enlighten us all on how Steve Francis is an All Time Great and Grievis isn't.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 30, 2011 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Good job Barno, you tried to over come 1 player out of a list of 9-11, so I guess you admit that you and Gary are wrong, thanks :) , and that 1 player just happened to lead the team to a #5 ranking in one year, to a Sweet 16 in one year, 1st team all acc, and a record # of wins by the team that year. Please tell me what Grevis did for the team again, I know he got good individual "me first" stats and wasnt good enough to get drafted until his Sr year, unlike Steve, but he did take us to: Freshman, didnt start so I wont blame him for the 2nd round loss in the NCAA's, but lets see, as a soph he took us to an NIT, nice! And as a JR and SR when he won his ACC awards, he took us to early losses in both the ACC and the NCAA's,,,awesome, you win that debate, GV was definitely a better player than Steve Francis.....wow you make this too easy!

Oh, just to remind you, EVERYONE knows that when GV won the ACC award for poy, it was the weakest ACC ever, so way to stake your claims on that award, GV is turning into a stud pro isnt he! haha

Posted by: cm88 | January 31, 2011 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Oh, here is a replacement for Steve Francis, since you did a great job winning that last debate :)...Tom McMillen 2 Time 1st Team All ACC and 2 time 2nd Team all American.

Wow you just keep losing debates, you really need to just stay off these boards until you grow up some and learn a little more about MD basketball, not just Gary years.

BTW, we are both MD fans, but we differ in our opinions of where the program should be, no biggie, I just want more and think a younger/in touch with the players coach that can recruit would help. I grew up loving Joe Gibbs and the Skins, he won multiple super bowls, but when he came back, it was obvious the game past him by,,,did he deserve a lifetime pass like some of you suggest for Gary? No, the coach is not bigger than the team. I think the recruiting game has past Gary by and I think he doesnt connect with 17-19 year old kids,,,why should he, he is getting up there in age and has always been a stubborn coach, so he is not going to change. Just one MD fans opinion!

Posted by: cm88 | January 31, 2011 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Go cm88. I don't even need to post anymore as you're taking Barno to the woodshed. Wake me when Gary's gone zzzzzzzzzzzz... I love how Gary's complaining now that it's all a PR thing that people are saying the ACC is down compared to the Big East, Big Twelve, Big 10, heck A-10 and CAA for that matter. I've been an ACC fan since the 70s and this is such a pale version compared to the hey days in the 80s.

Posted by: restonhoops | January 31, 2011 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Why do you think Gary campaigned so hard to expand the NCAA pool???? He would rather Market and Campaign, then recruit. Sad, but true!

Expanding the pool ruins the game, it lets average programs in and underachieving programs in...oh wait, thats Gary's program, ugh!

Posted by: cm88 | January 31, 2011 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Certified Moron88,

Sorry for the delay, I was still laughing too hard about you hilariously trying to claim Steve Francis was higher up on the All Time Terps lists than Vasquez.

CM, Please make a sign for the Duke game that reads "Grievis Vasquez: NOT one of the All Time great Terps" and bring it to the game Wednesday night. On the other side of it, please write "Fire Gary". I will pay for your ticket if you hold that sign up all game. It'll be worth it just to see what happens to you at Comcast Center.

You have proved beyond any shred of a doubt that your IQ hovers around the same number as your age. The fact that you try to use All ACC/All American credentials to back up your claim that Tom McMillen is an all time Terp while ignoring Vasquez's All ACC/All American credentials shows just how far you will reach. I see you have one standard for all the players on your list, and another standard for Grievis. Is it because he's Latino? What else could it be.

You also showed your EXTREME ignorance of the Vasquez era by referring to his stats as "me-first" stats and claiming he wasn't good enough to be drafted his junior year. Um, everyone knows had he left early, he'd have been drafted. He came back because he wanted to improve his stock, and he did, becoming a first round pick with Memphis.

As for his "me-first" stats, wow dude...you really are an imbecile. that is almost too funny to even respond to.

*He had more assists than any Terp in Maryland history other than Steve blake. How is an assist a "me-first" stat?

*He also had more rebounds than any MD point guard in history. How is a rebound a "me-first" stat?

*Are you seriously unaware that he won the Cousy Award last year? I like how you claim last season was the worst ACC season in history, that way you can ignore his ACC Player of the Year award. So are you also going to claim that it was the worst year for the entire nation in college bball last year too? That way you can ignore his Cousy Award as the nation's top point guard. Lol.

CM88, you really need to quit. I think we both know you have embarrassed yourself enough at this point.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 31, 2011 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Barnie, all good points, but my main point was that you picked out one player to try and overcome an argument you stated about Gary saying how great his guy GV was, Top 5-7 all time, which I find commical and insults the true greats in MD history. So again, do you think he is in the Top 5-7 as your boy said??? If so, please tell me who else other than Steve, that he is better than. And again, Steve was a better player, by far!!! And took Md deeper and gave us more wins in one year. Gv has a bunch of stats on a bad team and he took us no where, so you can decide which one is better, a guy that was going to be a second round pick or no pick and stayed a year to squeek into the first round, or a Top pick in the first round and NBA allstar? Point about McMillen ding bat, is that he has better accolades(sp?) than GV, so he is another one if you want to use your criteria...but hey GV has better stats and awards than Bias, so GV was better than Bias in your eyes right,,,,and I am the moron hahahaha, you are a stat child, learn basketball kid.

I was not a huge fan of GV, just like a bunch of us MD fans are not, just like I didnt like Caner Medley or John Gilchrist, sorry but some of the players alienate fans, but some fans love them as long as they have a MD jersey on. IF you watched the games, you would see that GV was well known for taking terrible shots, bad shot selection, and too many turnovers, but he got his points and assists, so he is wonderful, much better than all those guys I mentioned, right??? Again, according to your argument i.e.stats, he was a better player than John Lucas, right???

stick to the points duffous!

Lastly, againnnnn, just send me your seat/row number, happy to come say hi. I will let you yell out to everyone whatever you want to say, I am not too worried with some 18 year old skinny kid coming after me, since I am 205lbs and use to fight professionally and wrestled in college. If you dont believe me, I am happy to give you my seat/row so you can come visit me and make any threats you would like to make face to face, not over a silly post. Just put your email up here and I will send you my row/seat :)

Hope to see you Weds night :)

Posted by: cm88 | January 31, 2011 5:16 PM | Report abuse

Barnie, all good points, but my main point was that you picked out one player to try and overcome an argument you stated about Gary saying how great his guy GV was, Top 5-7 all time, which I find commical and insults the true greats in MD history. So again, do you think he is in the Top 5-7 as your boy said??? If so, please tell me who else other than Steve, that he is better than. And again, Steve was a better player, by far!!! And took Md deeper and gave us more wins in one year. Gv has a bunch of stats on a bad team and he took us no where, so you can decide which one is better, a guy that was going to be a second round pick or no pick and stayed a year to squeek into the first round, or a Top pick in the first round and NBA allstar? Point about McMillen ding bat, is that he has better accolades(sp?) than GV, so he is another one if you want to use your criteria...but hey GV has better stats and awards than Bias, so GV was better than Bias in your eyes right,,,,and I am the moron hahahaha, you are a stat child, learn basketball kid.

I was not a huge fan of GV, just like a bunch of us MD fans are not, just like I didnt like Caner Medley or John Gilchrist, sorry but some of the players alienate fans, but some fans love them as long as they have a MD jersey on. IF you watched the games, you would see that GV was well known for taking terrible shots, bad shot selection, and too many turnovers, but he got his points and assists, so he is wonderful, much better than all those guys I mentioned, right??? Again, according to your argument i.e.stats, he was a better player than John Lucas, right???

stick to the points duffous!

Lastly, againnnnn, just send me your seat/row number, happy to come say hi. I will let you yell out to everyone whatever you want to say, I am not too worried with some 18 year old skinny kid coming after me, since I am 205lbs and use to fight professionally and wrestled in college. If you dont believe me, I am happy to give you my seat/row so you can come visit me and make any threats you would like to make face to face, not over a silly post. Just put your email up here and I will send you my row/seat :)

Hope to see you Weds night :) Btw, other posters are agreeing, you are getting schooled in this debate, sorry but you are not a well schooled MD fan, just a little Gary lover.

Posted by: cm88 | January 31, 2011 5:23 PM | Report abuse

CM88,

Again you are cracking me up with more unintentionally comedy. No one made any threats at you Mr. tough guy. I would "STOP" terps fans from hitting you if they knew you hated Gary. Oooooh how threatening. You must be Albert freakin Einstein if you took something like that so literally that you felt threatened.

Sorry buddy but I would never be intimidated by some guy at a basketball game and neither should you. You sound unhinged by the way. Trying to intimidate people on the internet with listing your size and the fact that you wrestled??

Hahahaaha aahahha haaa!

Get a grip man.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 31, 2011 7:48 PM | Report abuse

**Again you are cracking me up with more unintentional comedy.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 31, 2011 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Barnie, I am not a tough guy, just telling you the truth,,,and when someone says that "you want to see what the MD fans will do to me when I say I want Gary fired or dont think GV is one of the greatest", I guess you where saying that they would hug me and cheer me on??? Nice back peddle, guess you thought someone wouldnt actually call you out on your tough talk with your tough geeky fans :) haha! I wasnt too concerned about needing you to stop anyone for me, I just wanted to see if you would back up your big talk in person, but you can go back to posting stuff on here and talk alllll the smack you want :)

Just messing with you little man, we are all MD fans, just think differently about what we want for our program.

Have fun at the Duke game with your chants.

Go MD, beat the Pukes!

Posted by: cm88 | February 1, 2011 8:37 AM | Report abuse

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