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Posted at 5:28 PM ET, 02/20/2011

Open thread: Maryland vs. N.C. State

By Matt Bonesteel

It's game time. Feel free to leave your thoughts on how the game is going in the comments.

TV: Comcast SportsNet.

Radio: WTEM-980.

By Matt Bonesteel  | February 20, 2011; 5:28 PM ET
Categories:  Men's basketball  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Talkin' Terps: Is Maryland 'way out' of NCAA tournament?
Next: Stoglin lauded for career-high games

Comments

Class act that Gary, just told his kids to shut the F up, when a kid hit a 3 pointer to go up 45-40. Hey Gary, why not play man to man if you want to stop the 3 pt shot, instead of zone which invites it. Wow, he is an amazing coach,,,,,,please retire gary, your act is old and so are you!

Posted by: cm88 | February 20, 2011 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Hey CM88,

Take a look at the opposing sideline tonight and think about what might be if we run Gary out of town. Running Sendek out of town didn't work out so well for NC State. I'm sure all of the Gary haters are sure we'll hire the next Brad Stevens, but what's to say we don't hire the next Sidney Lowe?

Posted by: acebojangles | February 20, 2011 7:04 PM | Report abuse

We don't need the next Brad Stevens. Throw money at a local guy with great credentials who already out-recruits Gary in the area: Mike Brey.

Posted by: Finnucane | February 20, 2011 7:12 PM | Report abuse

Wow, Stoglin had 25 points and 9 assists?

Posted by: acebojangles | February 20, 2011 7:45 PM | Report abuse

I almost want to pull a Barno and revisit the quotes from the Stoglin/Pe'Shon blog post. Seems like me and maybe one or two others were defending Stoglin, it seems clear that we were correct. Not that Pe'Shon doesnt have value and won't be a huge asset moving forward, but Stoglin is the only guy who can create consistently on the roster. Dude is a stud and will be All-ACC when its all said and done.

Good win. #RunTheTable

Posted by: Imjustlikemusiq | February 20, 2011 8:10 PM | Report abuse

I would love for Mike Brey to be the next coach at MD, but not until Gary is ready to leave obviously. I think Brey is a lock to land at either Duke or Maryland once Gary or Coach K eventually leave their respective programs.

Posted by: Imjustlikemusiq | February 20, 2011 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Hey you Gary haters, be careful what you wish for. Remember if Gary goes now, Kevin Anderson will be responsible for hiring his replacement - his track record on great hires is shaky to say the least. You really think he can land the "big hire"

Posted by: majackmom | February 20, 2011 10:47 PM | Report abuse

"I would love for Mike Brey to be the next coach at MD, but not until Gary is ready to leave obviously. I think Brey is a lock to land at either Duke or Maryland once Gary or Coach K eventually leave their respective programs.

Posted by: Imjustlikemusiq | February 20, 2011 8:15 PM"
-->I'm willing to bet that Duke hires from the "family", probably either Dawkins or Chris Collins, Wojo being the dark horse.

Maryland doesn't really have an alum or assistant to turn to. It will probably a Brad Stevens, Jay Wright, etc type. Some "hot" coach or rising assistant at a top school.

We're not a Duke, UCLA, Kentuky, but we're in that next tier.

Posted by: break20 | February 21, 2011 1:37 AM | Report abuse

"Hey you Gary haters, be careful what you wish for. Remember if Gary goes now, Kevin Anderson will be responsible for hiring his replacement - his track record on great hires is shaky to say the least. You really think he can land the "big hire"

Posted by: majackmom | February 20, 2011 10:47 PM"
-->I'm not a Gary hater, I just think there's a double standard. Since Gary went to a national championship, the program has severely declined. In the last seven years, we have not gotten past the second round of the NCAA's.

We are a BASKETBALL school, shouldn't we hold the basketball program to a higher standard? You wouldn't expect the same results of Mike Brey that you would of Brian Kelly.

Posted by: break20 | February 21, 2011 1:46 AM | Report abuse

You Gary haters keep quiet, after all this was a win. I can accept the anti-Gary talk after a loss but give us all a break with the whining. This was a win in front of our recruits and all the Greivas crowd, the 2000-2001 final four players. If the Terps keep winning I expect you guys to keep quiet and wait for a loss to bring out all the gloom and doom.

Posted by: torope | February 21, 2011 8:02 AM | Report abuse

@Imjustlikemusiq, I'm with you on the Stoglin over Howard view and also noted that Barno was dismissive of Stoglin and highly favored Howard. It's pretty clear that GW is squarely in Stoglin's corner. Maybe he reassessed after he read Barno's comments.
It is so clear that Stoglin is a difference maker, more confident, a better ball handler and a much better shooter. Howard may be a better defender, but that is not enough.

Posted by: petecard | February 21, 2011 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Hey Pete, Good to hear from you. I think now is a good time to rank the players on the team. In general, our chances of making the NCAA tourney are very slim, but the freshmen are starting to show major improvement. We all knew going into the season that if the three seniors did not step up, it would most likely be an NIT year. Without further adieu, Larry's highly subjective Terp Player Rankings:

1. Jordan Williams (ACC POY between J-Will and Nolan Smith)
2. Dino Gragory (One of the seniors actually stepped up. He has been rock solid and consistent. Still good for getting blocked about 2-3 times a game, though.
3. Terrell Stoglin (18 pt average over the last 4 games and two 25 pointers in a row...looking very good for the future. Right now, he is ahead of GV as a freshmen in terms of production)
4. PeShon Howard (Damn, this kid reminds me of Hayes, rock steady and always looking to pass. A little flashier than Hayes.
5. Hawk Paulson and Sean Mosley (Mosley has actually regressed this year. Still plays solid D, hustles and is usually in the right place. He just can't score reliably....the very definition of a role player and not a starter. Hawk is kinda the same, except Hawk has more of a shot.)
7. Bowie and Tucker (This is the reason we are most likely NIT bound. Tucker and Bowie have not stepped up to be starters and leaders. They are career role players.

So, if you are a pessimist, you jump all over GW for fielding such a weak upperclass (Mosley, Tucker and Bowie)and claim that he can't recruit.

If you are an optimist, you note that 3 of the 4 best players are 2 frosh and a sophomore, with a sick wing (Faust) and a really solid guard (Gibbs) coming in next year. Reagradless of this year's results, the rest of this year is about getting experience for Pe', Stogs and Hawk.

Posted by: larry31 | February 21, 2011 11:54 AM | Report abuse

FTR, I wasn't singling out Barno. Seemed like after the Wake game everyone was basically bailing on Stoglin in favor of Howard, which was surprising to me,. That's all.

If the freshman just had a bit more seasoning, we would be in great shape this season, but the problem is we were forced to rely on Mosley, Bowie, and Tucker in the early non conference games. I honestly question if those guys worked on their games at all this offseason. Tucker is still completely useless off the dribble. Mosley has not improved one part of his game, and Bowie is clearly more focused on going to Cornerstone every night of the week.

Dino Gregory is the only upperclassman who actually showed a steady improvement each season. He added new dimensions to his game every year. While he was never a dynamic player, he is a solid contributor. Wish the others would have followed suit.

Senior leadership: Hayes/Vasquez/Milbourne vs. Bowie/Tucker/Gregory. We should have been better this year, most of the blame falls on the shoulders of those guys. Plus Mosley.

Next year, assuming JWill stays - which he clearly should - we are going to be a serious threat to win the ACC again.

Posted by: Imjustlikemusiq | February 21, 2011 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Musiq,

Sounds like you would rank the players similarly to my previous post.

I put Stogs ahead of Howard becasue of his play the last 4 games. Stogs is much more of a risk taker (like GV) and will have a lot more really good games and more bad games. Howard is more steady (like Hayes) and won't get noticed as much. I think they are an excellent complement to each other and I could just as easly switch my rankings of these two depending on what they do this week.

If we beat Fl St and UNC this week, we are back in the NCAA conversation. Until then, no reason to get too excited except to see how Hawk, Stogs and Pe' develop.

Posted by: larry31 | February 21, 2011 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah. J-Will will stay at least another year. His defense needs some pretty serious work if he is going to go against Blake Griffin, KG, Dwight Howard, and Chris Bosh.

Posted by: larry31 | February 21, 2011 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Larry, I won't quibble with your rankings, but I am not an optimist. I do think Stoglins has great upside, but I note that Gibbs is quite small and he, Stogs and Howard are all PGs. I am not that high on Paulson. Where are the bigs that we need to be bringing in? I have to say that IMHO there is no compelling reason to think that next year is going to be a breakthrough year.

Posted by: petecard | February 21, 2011 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Pete,

UNC did not get their primary target. He went with AZ over UNC, which means Desmond Hubert will most likely choose UNC over us. Greg Whittington out of Columbia, MD and Martin Bruenig (German kid playing HS ball in Wisonsin) were at the NC St game. I would take the German kid in a NY minute.

Don't forget about Ashton Pankey who played for Hurley at St Anthony's has redshirted for us this year due to injury. The front court needs depth, but the back court looks really promising. Guard play rules college b-ball, so I like where we are at, but 1 or 2 talented bigs would give the Terps a serious shot at top-10 status.

Posted by: larry31 | February 21, 2011 5:36 PM | Report abuse

According to the BMore Sun, Whittington was not at the game yesterday because he wasn't feeling well.

Earlier, the BMore Sun also pointed out that Lefty Driesell was not among the 10 North American Committee finalists announced Friday by the Springfield MA shrine officially called the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. Of course, Gary Williams wasn't either.
Lefty hasn't been a finalist for eight years.

Did the little darlings do any cheers auf Deutsch fur Bruenig?

Posted by: Terps85 | February 21, 2011 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Break20, great posts!

Torope, us antigary guys arent whining over 1 game, win or lose against NC State, this program is regressing and has been for 8 years. We are no closer to being in the NCAA tourn this year, then we where before the game. The only way we get into the NCAA is to win the Acc tourn, thats a ridiculous place to be and its all on Gary, its his team/program. 4 NIT's in 8 years is a joke for a top level basketball school, end of story.

Posted by: cm88 | February 21, 2011 8:13 PM | Report abuse

cm88 if it looks like whining and feels like whining and smells like whining it most likely is whining. This team is going places and what we saw yesterday was just a taste.

If Gary is such a lousy recruiter than how did he end up with Stoglin and Howard. Seems like he knows a thing or two about judging High School players, or maybe he doesn't have to.

Maybe he is so good at developing players that he can take any group and make them contenders. We will have to wait and see but I will enjoy watching this freshmen class over the next few years, win or lose. That is what makes one a Terp fan. Win or lose, in Gary we trust.

Posted by: torope | February 21, 2011 8:34 PM | Report abuse

CM88,

Some names to consider:

Mike Davis, Indiana Final Four before getting canned and replaced by Kelvin sampson and than Tom Crean.
Tubby Smith, Kentucky, numerous elite eights and sweet 16's before getting canned and replaced by Billy Gillespie
Herb Sendek, NC St, 5 straight NCAA's before getting canned and replaced by El Sid.
Rolly Massimino, Villanova, wallowed for years before finding Jay Wright


Not to mention the slew of coaches that Alabama football and Auburn football had hired and fired before finding their guys.

Indiana had a rich tradition in basketball that has died since we played them in the NC game.

Kentucky is basketball royalty given their history with Adolph Rupp.

Auburn and Alabama are football schools and had a hall of a time finding a decent coach.

My point: It is not as easy as you think to find a fantastic coach that recruits well and is clean.

Indiana and Kentucky (two baskteball schools) have yet to find a coach that meets the afore-mentioned criteria....and it's been about 10 years since they canned their coaches!!!!

It took Villanova a long time to find Jay Wright after Rolly left.

We all want MD to do better. MD is more likely to do worse than better if GW was fired and replaced.

Posted by: larry31 | February 21, 2011 8:54 PM | Report abuse

Quoting CM88: "this program is regressing and has been for 8 years. The only way we get into the NCAA is to win the Acc tourn, thats a ridiculous place to be and its all on Gary, its his team/program. 4 NIT's in 8 years is a joke for a top level basketball school, end of story."

What makes MD a top level b-ball school?

Maybe the success that GW has brought to the program for over 20 years:


Are we really regressing as a b-ball program?

Cumulative ACC record the last 5 "regressing" years: 42-29 good for 3rd behind Duke and UNC.

GW's cumulative ACC record: 185-147 (including the Bob Wade-sanctioned years)

MD's cumulative ACC record since 1954: 332-339 behind UNC, Duke and NC St., good for 4th and a losing conference record

Under Gary we have outperformed every ACC school except UNC and Duke, good for 3rd in the ACC.

Conclusion: We have improved in the all-time standings under GW. Hard to say that we have regressed over the last 5 years, given that we are behind Duke and UNC which we always have been (historically speaking). The NCAA tourney appearances (3 of the last 4, 3 of the last 5) is misleading because mid-majors simply weren't jockeying for so many berths during the 80's and 90's.

Is GW perfect? Hell, no. Are we more likely to do worse w/o Gary than with him. Yes.

Posted by: larry31 | February 21, 2011 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Larry,
"1. Jordan Williams (ACC POY between J-Will and Nolan Smith)"
-->Doubtful it will be JW, it's hard to justify giving it to someone whose team might not even be in the tourney and while improving (getting a jump shot/doing better at the line), isn't that verstaile. Maybe next year... Sorry we're not entitled to two POYs in a row.

"3. Terrell Stoglin (18 pt average over the last 4 games and two 25 pointers in a row...looking very good for the future. Right now, he is ahead of GV as a freshmen in terms of production)"
-->He's done better as of late, don't like the GV comparison quite yet.

Posted by: break20 | February 22, 2011 2:17 AM | Report abuse

"Guard play rules college b-ball"
-->Larry this is true to an extent but especially true in the ACC. I would say in in other conferences such as the Big 10, the big men are a bigger part of the game.

Posted by: break20 | February 22, 2011 2:27 AM | Report abuse

"CM88,

Some names to consider:

Mike Davis, Indiana Final Four before getting canned and replaced by Kelvin sampson and than Tom Crean.
Tubby Smith, Kentucky, numerous elite eights and sweet 16's before getting canned and replaced by Billy Gillespie
Herb Sendek, NC St, 5 straight NCAA's before getting canned and replaced by El Sid.
Rolly Massimino, Villanova, wallowed for years before finding Jay Wright


Not to mention the slew of coaches that Alabama football and Auburn football had hired and fired before finding their guys.

Indiana had a rich tradition in basketball that has died since we played them in the NC game.

Kentucky is basketball royalty given their history with Adolph Rupp.

Auburn and Alabama are football schools and had a hall of a time finding a decent coach.

My point: It is not as easy as you think to find a fantastic coach that recruits well and is clean.

Indiana and Kentucky (two baskteball schools) have yet to find a coach that meets the afore-mentioned criteria....and it's been about 10 years since they canned their coaches!!!!

It took Villanova a long time to find Jay Wright after Rolly left.

We all want MD to do better. MD is more likely to do worse than better if GW was fired and replaced.

Posted by: larry31 | February 21, 2011 8:54 PM"
-->Larry,
I hate to break it you but you really don't know college basketball, if you can't see why Tubby Smith (and then Billy Gillespie) would be forced out after numerous Sweet 16 (and I don't think as many Elite 8s as you think). Kentucky is probably the equivalent of Notre Dame football in basketball, even more so than UCLA. They have the most rabid fanbase in the sport which makes MD look like nothing.

In terms of Mike Davis(and Tubby Smith), they we're both winning with other coaches players, Knight and Pitino respectively. And they did not achieve the success once they we're on their own.

Herb Sendek, I think it was a more of a mutual thing, knowing that UNC/Duke we're always going to be the main attraction in the region and Wake was actually good back then. A lot less pressure at ASU.

Rollie if I recall, there was a scandal at 'Nova.

And would you really say, Auburn and Bama are experiencing a dynasty in football? They have each won one national championship in the past two years. How many BCS appearances have they had? It's the whole SEC, not just those two schools.

Posted by: break20 | February 22, 2011 2:58 AM | Report abuse

Torope, yes you are right, Gary does an incredible job developing talented players and recruiting studs, just look at the great job he did developing and growing Tucker, Bowie, and Mosley. How about the last true stud he brought in, Mike Jones, how did that development go? Hope you get my sarcasim :) And before everyone gets all excited, which I am optimistic too, but just remember who Stoglin and Howard are doing this against, NC State and VA Tech, not exactly world beaters.

Larry31, please know MD basketball before you make a silly statement like Gary is the one that made this a basketball school, anyone/everyone that knows and loves MD basketball, knows Lefty built this program. Gary had to come in and fix it back up, but it was Lefty that built the MD program and tradition.

Saying that we have a great program because we are just behind Duke and UNC in a very weak ACC, is not a real accomplishment in my eyes. The real accomplishments are going deep in the NCAA tourn and winning Acc tourns, how have we done over your 5 year period in that? Being a consistent bubble team is regression from final 4's, Nat champ, sweet 16's.

Again, we are going to our 4th NIT in 8 years, sorry but that is regression. Mid-level schools are ok with this success, not top tier programs like MD.

Next year looks like another NIT, if Jordan leaves and/or if our stud recruit ie. 4 star not 5, ends up like Mosley/Jones. Not being negative, just realistic.

Posted by: cm88 | February 22, 2011 7:39 AM | Report abuse

Larry31, please know MD basketball before you make a silly statement like Gary is the one that made this a basketball school, anyone/everyone that knows and loves MD basketball, knows Lefty built this program. Gary had to come in and fix it back up, but it was Lefty that built the MD program and tradition.

Lefty's ACC record: 122-100 (.550 winning percentage)

Gary's ACC record: 191-154 (.553 winning percentage)

I honestly do not understand those that want to get rid of Gary. He has the best all-time ACC record among any coach who ever coached MD.

As for Indiana and Kentucky, if those schools can't get a Wooden or Coach K after 10 year, what makes you think MD can land an incredible coach who can recurit and is clean?

I did not mean to imply that Mike Davis and Tubby Smith were outstanding, I just meant to highlight how difficult it is to get a great coach who can recruit and is clean, even at schools that have more of a b-ball traditon than MD.

Posted by: larry31 | February 22, 2011 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and Billy Gillespie never should have been hired in the first place. Tubby couldn't recruit. I kind of understand letting him go. Hiring Billy Gillespie? What were they thinking?

And Indiana hiring Kelvin Sampson (really crooked) and Tom Crean (really mediocre)? Ugh.

My main point is simple: It is my subjective opinion that hiring a Coach K or John Wooden or Dean Smith is harder than most people realize.

Posted by: larry31 | February 22, 2011 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Larry, good points, and I understand why there are tons of PROgary guys, but some of us are just tired of NEVER getting the areas Top/5 star recruits, seeing a guy rant and curse at kids, which hurts recruiting and makes most kids play tight, and see a guy that HAS to coach them up since he cannot get the top recruits, which in turn leads to the occassional great team/class like 2000-2001, but then also leads to the long droughts, like we are in the midst of now.

With Gary's system/recruiting, we have to get "lucky" and have all the stars align to compete for a National Championship,,,or to even be ranked lately, ugh!

Posted by: cm88 | February 22, 2011 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Also, Lefty's ACC was different than today's watered down ACC, so you cant compare. Plus, at one point back then only 1 Acc team went to the NCAA's, can you imagine if that was now, what would Garys record in the NCAA's look like???

Lefty took MD to 5 or 6 ACC Finals and won 1 in 17 years.

Gary has taken us 2 times with 1 win in 21 years.

In 1974, they lost in overtime in the greatest ACC game ever to the eventual Nat Champ and didnt get to go to the NCAA's, they where one of the greatest ACC teams ever, so good chance they go Final 4 or Nat Champ.

There is a reason Gary fought to expand the field, he just isnt the coach that Lefty was and he cant compete to even get into a NCAA tourn with the rules much more lax than when Lefty coached.

It would by Lefty Fieldhouse, if not for the Bias nightmare.

Posted by: cm88 | February 22, 2011 2:20 PM | Report abuse

"As for Indiana and Kentucky, if those schools can't get a Wooden or Coach K after 10 year, what makes you think MD can land an incredible coach who can recurit and is clean?"
-->Larry, I don't think asking a coach to go above the second round once in a decade is unrealistic, something Gary hasn't done in almost that time frame. They won the national championship and got back to the Sweet 16 after that, but the program is a shell of itself.

All the games used to sell out, now they don't. You used to have to buy season tickets to get ACC tickets, don't have to anymore.

Clearly the luster has faded, sorry Larr.

Posted by: mle916 | February 22, 2011 4:01 PM | Report abuse

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