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Posted at 12:05 PM ET, 02/ 8/2011

Talkin' Terps: The missing piece of the puzzle

By Matt Bonesteel

Today's question is pretty simple: What is the one thing that you think is missing from this season's Maryland basketball team?

Obviously, no one is going to say it's a post presence, as Jordan Williams has become one of the better pure big men in the country. But if you could snap your fingers to correct the one thing Maryland is missing, what would it be? A pure shooter? A more vocal leader on the court?

You have the floor.

By Matt Bonesteel  | February 8, 2011; 12:05 PM ET
Categories:  Men's basketball  
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Comments

Perimeter scoring. Easy. If we had any ability to score from the perimeter, we'd be a Top-15 team right now.

Posted by: kbless77 | February 8, 2011 12:10 PM | Report abuse

The one thing this team clearly lacks is effective depth at the local reporting level. Once you get past the starter (Prsibell), the quality really suffers.

Posted by: terpape | February 8, 2011 12:27 PM | Report abuse

SOMEONE WHO CAN SHOOT FROM THE OUTSIDE...JUST ONE GUY THATS ALL WE ASK GARY..

Posted by: carolina1 | February 8, 2011 12:32 PM | Report abuse

I'd say it's a tie ... a consistent outside shooting threat, as has been mentioned, and a true lock-down perimeter defender (we've given up way too many threes in our losses).

Posted by: imageaid | February 8, 2011 12:43 PM | Report abuse

3Pt shooting is lacking, obviously. But, the uncertainty at the point guard position has hurt a little I think. Stoglin and Howard are doing good as freshman, but neither has stepped up to take that role with pure confidence. Also, Jordan Williams doesn't get much help down low. He does all the work by himself.

Posted by: cunnia05 | February 8, 2011 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Prisbell would be the 3rd man off the bench for most teams. What has happened to the Post?

Posted by: themantoyou | February 8, 2011 12:44 PM | Report abuse

An effective 3pt shooter. Against Duke our depth in the front court was exposed. We get outrebounded against top 15 teams.

Posted by: Redtopper2 | February 8, 2011 12:45 PM | Report abuse

IMO we have sufficient firepower in terms of 3pt shooting in the context of the offense (Tucker, Bowie, Palsson can all shoot the 3 and Howard and Stoglin are erratic but decent overall). We could definitely improve if we had one or two guys like Hayes, but I don't think that's our one glaring weakness.

More specifically, our one glaring weakness is someone who can get points and create baskets for himself and others when the offense breaks down. The only guy who has shown any proclivity for this is Stoglin, who seems to have hit some kind of freshman wall. Obviously JWill is great, but he's dependent on the perimeter players to get him the ball.

Posted by: Jeremy76 | February 8, 2011 12:53 PM | Report abuse

A world-class point guard. You can have great inside men, great shooters but without a great point guard you can not go very far in the NCAA tournament. Look at Duke--they looked like a great team with Kyrie Irving, and while they are still good, his injury most likely will cost them a championship or, at least, a good run at one. Look at Maryland in the past--their greatest teams had great point guards--Brad Davis, Steve Blake...

Posted by: pdeblin | February 8, 2011 1:03 PM | Report abuse

To me the answer to this question is simple. A leader on the court. Someone who'll get in the faces of the guys when they make a mistake, and wants the ball and can score at crunch time.

Coming in to the season, I thought Cliff Tucker would be that guy. If not Tucker, than Bowie needed to be that guy. Unfortunately, neither of them seem to be a leader and this season is on the brink of being a failure.

Posted by: H1Dynasty | February 8, 2011 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Consisstent Permiter Shooting.... Like almost everyone on here. If we had one/two true shooters - The Terps would be VERY hard to stop

Posted by: Stevida | February 8, 2011 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Perimeter shooting, something we often see - at the Terps' expense - from shooting guards & swingmen of true elite basketball programs. Good perimeter shooting will improve the play of the PG position; the more options the PG has when coming down the floor, the better he will be. We do not have "sufficient firepower" in this area.

...And we should also mention the fact that MD has wretched foul shooting. We're at the bottom of the ACC with roughly 65%.

Posted by: skinsfan11 | February 8, 2011 1:33 PM | Report abuse

It's Nick Faust who we're missing. He'll be here next year.

Posted by: mjsciann1 | February 8, 2011 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Simple equation: Shooter and a player who can create their own shot off the dribble. Tucker is a stand still shooter that sometimes can score off the bounce.

Posted by: dpshultzfam | February 8, 2011 1:34 PM | Report abuse

A post presence

Posted by: fushezzi | February 8, 2011 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Juan Dixon

Posted by: chatobajo | February 8, 2011 1:41 PM | Report abuse

A PURE SHOOTER! Nick Faust, part of next year's freshman class, is supposed to be that kind of player. Unfortunately for the current team, he doesn't arrive in until next year. Sorry but this season is over.

Posted by: krose5 | February 8, 2011 1:45 PM | Report abuse

I'm the missing piece of the puzzle.

Suit me up Gary.

Posted by: P00PY_MCP00P | February 8, 2011 2:16 PM | Report abuse

An athletic perimeter player who is a pure shooter that has confidence and doesnt turn the ball over. This kid would replace either Bowie or Tucker on the roster because one would have to go. I like Hauk being in the rotation now.
Also, they are missing Mychal Parker who is a top 50 recruit who should be getting minutes with his supposed athleticism and talent, but doesnt because he's obviously not very good right now. Goes to show you the top 100 list is GARBAGE. Mosely was a to 50 player. Jordan Williams was outside the top 100. Joke.

Posted by: matthewrayman | February 8, 2011 2:18 PM | Report abuse

I don't know anything about Nick and I hope he's as good as the scouting reports. It's good to have a local prospect succeed in CP. But Mychal Parker was last years top recruit. When Mike Jones came off the bench he'd put up 2-3-4 j's and GW would bench him. I can't recall the last time someone shot consistently from the outside for GW. Dino and Mosley have decent inside the key ability. Tucker is occasionally deadly. But a balanced attack has never been GW's ID. He likes defense. Maybe that was his calling card when he played. I think the offense lacks dynamism. Call it outside shooter, or hot pg. I think the game has changed in the last ten years and GW likes to play the old way. Otherwise he'd be joining the crowd and recruiting the key players needed. What's the point of going out of your way to get guys who are so called cast offs mostly and then trying to glue them together using some scheme that sounds good only on paper? I don't get it. If it worked this article wouldn't be written. Personally I think as much as coach wants to win he reminds me of the Purdue coach Keedy before he decided to hang it up.

Posted by: KraftPaper | February 8, 2011 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Looks like we are not the only fans frustrated with Gary's lack of recruiting, guess I am not the only Garyhater out there :)

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=174&f=2580&t=7156011

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Hey KraftPaper,

Hayes shot consistently from the outside for GW last year.

Posted by: lkfkd876 | February 8, 2011 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Looks like we are not the only fans frustrated with Gary's lack of recruiting, guess I am not the only Garyhater out there :)

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=174&f=2580&t=7156011

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Really???? I mean, come on!! You can't recruit EVERYONE. The team can only carry 13 scholarship players. The last time I checked, the Terps are losing a point guard (Bowie), a shooting guard/swing (Tucker), and a power forward (Greggory). That leaves 3 slots that are being filled by Ashton Gibbs (highly regarded PG), Nick Faust (one of the top SGs in the nation), and they are working on a forward (Hubert perhaps). Gibbs gave a verbal at the end of last year, so why would a PG from Montrose even consider Maryland before signing day with a PG coming in and two other PGs on the roster? Just because a kid doesn't list Maryland as "considering," doesn't mean the Terps didn't recruit him. I just love how "fans" try to bash this program when it's clear improvements in recruiting are being made, and the Terps are generally getting the players they are targeting now, save for Baru.

As far as what the Terps are missing, I don't think they're missing anything. This team, as constructed, should only have 3-4 losses right now. Bowie and Tucker should be leading this team, and perhaps the leadership from the 3 seniors affected their ability to lead the team this year. Bowie is a good player, who just has not gotten the confidence to unleash his potential. Tucker tries so hard sometimes, he looks like he's running in quicksand. Parker was supposed to be that wing player that would make this team elite. Mosely was supplsed to provide leadership and consistancy that the rest of the team could feed off of, and so the freshmen would not have to carry so much of the load. Everything that's needed for this team is already here, it's just a matter of these guys playing up to or exceeding their potential, a typical trait of Gary teams.

Sure, this team could use a 3-point marksmen like Hayes or Nicholas, but Stoglin, Parker, Paulson, and Bowie are all above average 3-point shooters, they just are lacking the confidence to put it up on a consistant basis, or just aren't being given the chance to do so.

Sure this team could use a leader, but the real leader of this team (JW) cannot lead the team when he's not getting the ball consistantly, and the other team leaders (Mosely, Bowie, and Tucker) are hesitant with the ball. Vasquez or Steve Blake could put this team over the top, but that leadship is already on this roster.

The one thing that may legitimately be missing from this team is chemistry. There really seems to be a divide between the fresmen and seniors as to the direction of the team, and everyone seems to be looking at each other to take over. This team is successful when they play together, and maybe that consistant collective effort is what this team needs to be successful.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 8, 2011 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Everyone knows we are a bad shooting team from behind the arc and even to a lesser extent from anywhere on the court. But the answer isn't really just a missing piece. It is an overall lack of talent. We have one guy who is special, JW. We have some nice players as a group. But if we could plug in one more really good player it almost wouldn't matter the position he played.

Posted by: petecard | February 8, 2011 2:52 PM | Report abuse

a guard with a 10 foot jump shot. mosely/tucker/bowie/both frosh do not have one.

Posted by: terpcentral1 | February 8, 2011 2:53 PM | Report abuse

I think it is the half court offense that is the missing factor with this years team. I agree with Russtinator, we already have the players that we need to succeed. If you will recall we shoot the ball effectively from the perimeter against Wake, UVA, need I go on. The real problem is against the ranked teams and this is really about the defense played by the ranked teams. We make the shots against the average teams and miss them against the top defenses such as Duke. Our half court offense needs to get better and it is getting better each game. You will not notice it against Virginia Tech because we are playing freshment point guards and our seniors, despite being good players, appear unable to lead our offense against the better defenses. When we fail to get the ball in Jordan William's hands in the half court set agaist the better teams we are in trouble. There is no need to panic. They are improving every game but it may not be in time to get us into the tournament. Last year's team could break down a good team's half court defense and this year's team cannot. Lets wait and see how this problem fixes itself by the end of the season. If not we do not have to go back to the drawing board. This team will be better next year.

Posted by: torope | February 8, 2011 3:14 PM | Report abuse

YES RUSS, Really!!!!

I am going to try and keep this short, since I cant read the long posts you always write. So here you go:

You defend Gary on everything even recruiting, I think it was your or your friend Barno that said Gary is always getting Top 25 recruiting classes, so if thats true,,,then how come we havent been able to be a Top 10 team since 2001-2002 and barely broke the Top 20 once in that same time period...almost 10 years!!!!

Question, short and sweet,,,,is Gary a bad recruiter and good coach,,,or a good recruiter and bad coach? Because right now we are headed to a 4th NIT in 8 years, eventhough BARNO the expert says we are not, I really hope he is right for once!

Its either one or the other, because while we all are not stupid and know we cannot get everyone, we should be getting some of the top players in the country, that I listed before, but you said we dont need, because they didnt win Nat Champs for their teams, eventhough they took their teams much deeper than we have been in years.

So, either Gary is getting very good players and doing a terrible job motivating and coaching them...or he is doing a terrible job recruiting and is doing ok with bad players.

Either way, that makes him the issue, and not the players!

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Experience.

Posted by: steven09 | February 8, 2011 3:31 PM | Report abuse

BTW Russ, before you make statements like...

I just love how "fans" try to bash this program when it's clear improvements in recruiting are being made, and the Terps are generally getting the players they are targeting now, save for Baru.


Please do a little research and see that we have already lost several players we where targeting for next year..one to Rutgers! And we only have a 3 star and a 4 star signed up for next year, which is exactly what we got last year, 2009, 2008, 2007, etc.

How can you say we have been able to get the players we wanted? Our TOP/4 star recruits since 2007 are: Braxton Dupree- Transferred...Gus Gilchist..never came to MD. Sean Mosley...underperformer Jordan Williams...Top Performer....M Parker..Bench rider.

Lets see, out of our Top recruits, 1 is performing to expectations and the rest????

Thats a pretty bad 4-5 year run of recruiting, doesnt show much of a turnaround as you mentioned lately?

We are all hoping this kid next year will be the next best thing since sliced bread, but have you read how he is playing lately according to Balt Sun...not a good sign! Hope he is great, but recent past, the averages due to Gary's bad recruiting, does not look good.

oh here is a list of the 5 star recruits Gary has landed since 2002..........

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 3:35 PM | Report abuse

The players lack confidence to take the shot from the outside. Everyone knows good shooters always want to take the shot. It's obvious the Terps shooters aren't looking for it and are too often pulled when they take it and miss. I don't know if the shooter is on this team and time is running out on finding out. I think Gary is a great coach but he makes mistakes and should find out if someone on the bench wants/can be the shooter the team needs desperately. Also, we need better defense against teams taking three point shots. It seems like everyone knows what's coming, except the players. We've played so many ranked teams so close, it makes you wonder how much better we could have been this year with an outside shooter. Love Terps!

Posted by: horwatje | February 8, 2011 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Nick Faust was a good get. Agreed. Tobias Harris would have been nice, or CJ Leslie, too. Hoping for big things from Bino Ranson.

Posted by: steven09 | February 8, 2011 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Poopy nailed this one

Posted by: jpfterps | February 8, 2011 3:41 PM | Report abuse

I would have to say another big man to compliment Jordan Williams...Williams may not even stay for his senior season, so you have to have a replacement waiting in the wings...And right now, Jordan is the only force in the paint, when he goes out of the game, Maryland has no inside presence or anyone to go against the opposing teams bigs...Could you imagine if Maryland had another 6'10 260lbs player on the court at the same time as Williams?!? Not only would that player take pressure and double teams off of Williams, but that would allow shooters like Stoglin, Palsson, and Howard to better opportunities.

Posted by: babycas2000 | February 8, 2011 3:42 PM | Report abuse

The mid-range jump shot is a lost art in(HS,Coll,&Pro) basketball, player's don't practice it enough and i'm not sure a lot of today's coach's know how to effectively teach it. The Terp's need a pure jump shooter and that person need's to know how to create his own shot. The players of today appear at least to me to shoot the ball flat, no rotation and a lot of them don't keep their leg's together when they go up to shoot. There are so many nuances that the players of today miss in terms of shooting that i'm surprised when they shoot well. The Georgetown Hoya's shoot well because JT3 and his dad(Big John)teach the fundamental's not that Gary doesn't i just think the Terp's don't have a pure jump shooter.

Posted by: dargregmag | February 8, 2011 4:08 PM | Report abuse

How can you say we have been able to get the players we wanted? Our TOP/4 star recruits since 2007 are: Braxton Dupree- Transferred...Gus Gilchist..never came to MD. Sean Mosley...underperformer Jordan Williams...Top Performer....M Parker..Bench rider.

oh here is a list of the 5 star recruits Gary has landed since 2002..........

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 3:35 PM | Report abuse

WOW!! You never cease to amaze. You seem to think everything is black and white, and try to argue out of both side of your mouth while keeping a straight face. It's true, Gary has not had consecutive top 25 classes since 2002. He has typically gotten one or two top players every year or two, and there have been gaps in talent from 2004 through 2008. He's also taken on a lot of "project" players over the years to fill out classes (Hasan Fofana, Shane Walker, Braxton Dupree, Jin Soo Choi/Kim, Goins, and Paulson). Maybe the program would have been better if he just kept those scholarships on ice so he could get kids like Baru (took 2 scholarships to get because he wanted to play with his high school teammate), but some would argue that you have to go through a bunch of Travis Garrisons, Bombale Osbys, Jamaar Smiths, and Dino Greggorys to finally get a Jordan Williams, because not every recruit is going to pan out.

You list an interesting bunch of recruits there. Braxton Dupree was a more promising player coming out of high school than Dino Greggory, and he actually played more minutes in his freshman year. However, the kid was LAZY, and he still is, even though he somehow found a way to trim down below 250. He's still not a great player averaging 12.8 and 7.8 on a terrible team (I watched them in person get hammered by GMU a couple weeks ago), and collects stats by default. The Gus Gilchrest recruitment was a disaster, and the period between 2006 and 2008 featured a lot of crazy stories (Bobby Maze and others). However, the bottom line is that Gilchrest was officially on the roster, and he chose to transfer because his "handler" got a sweeter deal from USF, now one of the worst teams in the Big East. Mosely's decline has been well documented, and I think Mychal Parker's story is still to be written.

Did you not see what happens when Gary recruits 5-star players? Under-achieving prima-donnas that went to 2-straight NITs. He has instead targeted kids in that next level, that are willing to commit to the program for 2-3 years, and I think we're seeing those results now, that should culminate with a top 10 team next season. He has a good infrestructure in place with Bino Ranson, Keith Booth, and Rob Eshan, that will hopefully maintain stability for the program.

Every team goes through ebbs and flows, yet this team has managed to stay in the upper echelon of the conference. I again ask, would you rather chase 1-and-dones for a run to the sweet sixteen every 5 years and 2-3 sub .500 records in between, or make the NCAA 14/17 years?

Posted by: Russtinator | February 8, 2011 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else fear that gaining Faust will be addition by subtraction, bc J Will will be gone?

Posted by: jpfterps | February 8, 2011 4:23 PM | Report abuse

College basketball is becoming less dependant upon stars, and more a function of team chemistry. Look at teams that have loaded rosters, yet are struggling because all of the pieces can't play together. NC State has pulled some of the best recruiting classes in the country the last 3-4 years, yet Sidney Lowe is about to lose his job. CJ Leslie (top 10 player from last year) can't play with Tracey Smith (top player from his class). Michigan State's season is in ruins from injuries, personality conflicts, and defections, despite having some of the best talent in the country. G-Town had one of the most loaded rosters in 2009-10, and look what happened, a 1st round upset to lowly Ohio. Kansas State looked like a Final Four team this year, but will be lucky to make the NIT right now.

If you look at the top teams, most have a top star, but the supporting cast is not much different from what the Terps have. Ohio State has Sulinger, but that team is undefeated because of Diebler and Leighty. Pitt is full of Gary-type guys that are "next-level" recruits that play hard every night and lack a big-time star. Kasas, admitedly, is loaded all the way down the bench, but Self has gotten that team to gel, somoething that is not always true of loaded Kansas teams, like last year's version that got upset by Northern Iowa in the second round. You can go around the country and see the successful teams that have one star, but are successful because of their ability to play as a team. You can't just throw an all-star team together and expect them to go to the Final Four, and not even the greatest coaches in the conutry can deliver top teams when star players are not willing to buy into the system.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 8, 2011 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else fear that gaining Faust will be addition by subtraction, bc J Will will be gone?

Posted by: jpfterps | February 8, 2011 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I think a lot of big-time players this year will skip the NBA draft this year because of the pending lockout. It's not a sure thing that JW will be back next year, but I think he's smart enough to know with another year of seasoning, he could be a lottery pick. He's already showing a mid-range jumper that will only get better with another year in the flex offense.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 8, 2011 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Russ, I know what happened to each player/recruit,,,thats the issue, Gary is not getting top players or doesnt win in the recruiting game. Whether its bad luck, lazy recruiting, or bad coaching when he gets the recruits, he just isnt getting the job done.

I am curious, who are the 5 star recruits you are talking about that Gary got that took us to 2 NIT's? According to my quick research, he has never been able to get a 5 star guy. I believe Mike Jones, Sean Mosley, and Nick Faust(if he comes) are his top recruits in the last 10 years, all 4 star recruits.

I do see Gary in black and white,,,while he was winning I kept my mouth shut, didnt like that he blew leads in big games and cursed at kids non-stop so they played tight, drank with teenagers, etc., but I kept my mouth shut since he was winning. Now the old man is losing and is taking us to NIT's and early losses, so he doesnt get free passes anymore from people that want the best for the MD program, sorry thats just life.

In your next post you again pick out some programs that are or have struggled with Top players, I could easily pick out schools that are not struggling with top players. Sorry but I would rather take my chances with some top players, then hope to get lucky with some avg players every year. Mich st is struggling, but they have done much better over the past 8 years than we have. Again, we are headed towards are 4th NIT in 8 years, is that black and white enough for you that Gary is failing or not???????? You and BARNO, hang your hats on Gary winning COY and GV winning POY last year in the ACC, how did we do before we got in conference??? The ACC sucked last year, except for one team, how did that team do compared to us in the ACC and NCAA tourn??? We sucked, GARY sucked last year, sorry its just the truth!

If you are ok with how are program is doing this year, the past 8 years,,,then you have a different level of expectations than me, sorry I just think we should be a Top 20 team every year, with the occassional hiccup/rebuilding year, not the other way around. We should not be a bubble team ever, instead we are a bubble team every year.

Those are not opinions, those are facts, we where a bubble team even last year before the acc season started and even mid year.

Gary is failing, its the truth, not an opinion!

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Gary is failing, its the truth, not an opinion!

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 4:52 PM | Report abuse

He is not failing, far from it...When was the last time he finished sub .500? When was the last time he failed to make the postseason?

Do you want to see failing? Fire Gary, and see 10 years of a revolving door of coaches like 75% of the programs in the nation, and then you'll see failing. You have yet to identify a coach who would take over from Gary, and take the Terps higher than he has. If you are okay with the Terps winning less than 15 games every year for the next 5 years in the hopes of striking gold, you're more than welcome to try, especially with numbnuts Kevin Anderson at the controls. I'd personally rather stick with the known quantity that recruits solid kids that typically improve over the course of their careers, and makes the NCAA tournament 80+% of the time.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 8, 2011 5:03 PM | Report abuse

cm88 - dead on my friend!!!!

Everything from turning a blind eye to Gary's indiscretions to being an annual bubble team to recruiting. Great Post!!!

Lastly, the year MD won it all the difference was jaun dixon, Baxter and Blake were thick skinned. GW did not break those guys like he does so many. They could take GW unlike any player before or since. Vasquez is another that was thick skinned to mute GW out.

Posted by: simplewords999 | February 8, 2011 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Russtinator not to jump in but if MD had Jay Wright from Villanova or another decent coach that kept 1 out of 3 foour and five star recruits from the DC-Baltimore area, MD would be a top flight program. I respect Gary and I am not calling for his head. HOWEVER, MD should be a top 20 program EVERY YEAR from local talent alone!!!

It's a shame GW does not win the recruiting battle in his own back yard literally. Who was the last DeMatha player to go to MD? Who was the last local standout from the DC area to go to MD?

Posted by: simplewords999 | February 8, 2011 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Russ again, read your post, you think failing is sub .500,,,,while life long MD fans, come to expect and want Ranked teams, teams that compete(I didnt say win) for ACC tourn titles, go to Sweet 16's and are not a bubble team to get into the NCAA's. None of which Gary has produced in the past 8 years, I know, 2004 we won the ACC tourn, we where a bubble team all year and Gilchrist went nuts, still not success in many terps fans eyes by Gary, it was one player that went off.

Why do you think we will fail if Gary leaves, you cant compare the post Bias death times to today. Everything is on the internet and open now, we would easily find a top coach that could recruit and would most likely do great,,,for every stuggling new coach at a top program you want to pull up, I can find 1 or 2 that came in and did just a great job.

I understand your concern, but do you really want to settle and just be an avg program that is on the bubble every freaking year, Sorry but that is FAILING in the eyes of terps fans,,,or take a chance on some fresh blood that would take us to a consistent Top 10-15 level?

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Russ, I know what happened to each player/recruit,,,thats the issue, Gary is not getting top players or doesnt win in the recruiting game. Whether its bad luck, lazy recruiting, or bad coaching when he gets the recruits, he just isnt getting the job done.

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 4:52 PM | Report abuse

What do you want him to do? Dupree didn't want to put the time in to realize his potential. Gary gave him the tools, a great strength and conditioning program, tough players to practice against, and different motivating tactics to improve his game (he once left him in for 10 straight minutes to try to get it through his stubborn head how much effort it takes to play at this level).

Did you want Gary to hire Woody as an assistant coach, who wouldn't actually do any work, just so he could get mediocre results out of Gus Gilchrest?

Other recruits have been blocked by the AD, or just haven't panned out. Every program has them. Do you blame Roy Williams for Larry Drew's flamout in Chapel Hill? Seth Greenburg swung and missed with Gilchrest before Gary did, how about some blame for Mr. "we should be in the NCAA, but are never good enough" at VaTech? What about Coach K and his problems with Josh McRoberts and Taylor King? Every program has these problems, and while it's frustrating that talented players never reach their potential or even get a chance in the program, there are very few kids that legitimately leave or turn down this program and make a significant impact to a NCAA Championship contender.

I just don't understand how you can be so ungrateful of the job that Gary is doing with this program without a single alternative that can make this program better. Your anecdotal evidence of Gary "screaming" at kids during games is valid, but only if you don't also include his demeanor during practice, and the behavior of his peers in similar situations. Have you ever watched a Maryland practice? Did you watch the Duke/St.John's game? Coach K was flinging more explatives during 30-second timeouts than Gary can fit into an entire game. There are very few successful non-demonstrative coaches out there, and I'd like to see you name five beyond Jay Wright, who I've heard is a pretty tough SOB in practice.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 8, 2011 5:25 PM | Report abuse

I am curious, who are the 5 star recruits you are talking about that Gary got that took us to 2 NIT's? According to my quick research, he has never been able to get a 5 star guy. I believe Mike Jones, Sean Mosley, and Nick Faust(if he comes) are his top recruits in the last 10 years, all 4 star recruits.

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Jones was a 5-star according to rivals.
Garrison was a 5-star according to ESPN.
Danny Miller was 5-star according to everyone.
I believe John Gilchrest was 4.5 star according to Scouts, but I cannot seem to verify.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 8, 2011 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Certified Moron88 sooo badly wants to talk about the last 8 years, because everyone know if you include the last 10 years we are among the top 10 programs in the nation. ESPN among many other prominent media outlets ranked the top programs of the decade last year...every single one that I saw had MD among the top 10 programs in the country over the last decade. It's not just because of 2001 and 2002. It's because we won the 3rd most games in the ACC after NC and Duke SINCE the national championship. It's because we are one of 3 ACC teams, along with just Duke and UNC, to have an ACC regular season title and an ACC tourney title in the last 7 years. It's because we have made the tourney 5 times SINCE the national title. And, of course, it's because we went to back to back final fours and won a national championship this decade.

Certified Moron88 can't accept reality, that's why he keeps trying to erase the 2001 and 2002 seasons. He calls those the "lucky" seasons. Dude, you really know how to suck the fun out of sports. If you can't even enjoy the fact that your team earned a national championship, what is the point of even rooting for a team?

Every single person on this blog knows CM88 is of limited intelligence. His stupidity oozes out of every one of his comments. Dude actually made physical threats on here last week on an earlier thread. Real winner you must be Certified Moron88.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 8, 2011 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Simple,,,great example of Vill, especially since they are pulling players for MD, dont have any recruting advantage over MD in terms of location, weather, school ranking, etc. And they brought in a new coach in 2001,,,,here is how they have done the past 6 years

2004-05 Jay Wright 24-8 11-5 NCAA Final 16
2005-06 Jay Wright 28-5 14-2 NCAA Final 8
2006-07 Jay Wright 22-11 9-7 NCAA First round
2007-08 Jay Wright 22-13 9-9 NCAA Final 16
2008-09 Jay Wright 30-8 13-5 NCAA Final Four
2009-10 Jay Wright 25-8 13-5 NCAA Second Round


And they are ranked in the Top 10 this year and 19-4 right now.

Man I would hate to be in Vill shoes right now,,,or over the past 7 years!

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Barnie,,,I already gave Gary credit for 2001-2002, but I dont live in the distant past like a dbag like boy like you, I live in the recent past, i.e. 8 years, 5 years, 3 years, this year. Who won the NBA championship in 2000??? I dont know and dont care, I care who is winning now. Hey the Bullets won a long time ago, you happy with their status,,,how about the skins, you still living off of Joe Gibbs???

Yeah and I am the moron!!! Haha,,,still waiting for when and where you are going to meet me to laugh at me when we make it in the NCAA's expert Md guy!

Why not actually stick to the topic loser and make good rational points like I am doing, Russ is doing, Simplewords, etc.

Oh thats right because you lack any solid thoughts to stand on, other than Gary won 10 years ago, and he won COY last year in the worst ACC ever,,,,wow you are a stupid little kid!

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 5:38 PM | Report abuse

cm88 you are morally bankrupt. You seem to think it all comes down to recruiting. Most of the players in our backyard want to play somewhere else, Maryland is just too close. The DeMatha players for the most part were off limits to Lefty also. Later he got some of them to play for him but you are focussing too much on recruiting. There is more to bball than recruiting. We get the players who wanted to leave the west coast like stoglin, howard. It all evens out. The Terps get players who want to play for Maryland. Let the others go, who cares. We just need to focus on winning with the players we have, stop focussing on the players that we don't have.

Posted by: torope | February 8, 2011 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Torope, how am I morally bankrupt, not even sure what that means, but sounds nifty :)

So a kid wants to go play for Villanova, instead of MD, because of the location, not the coach? Ok, that makes tons of sense, have you been to Villanova??? Youre telling me that the kids that have stated they wanted to come to MD, but never got a call from Gary, I guess they where lying and eventhough they grew up here and loved MD, they wanted to go to another school.

So, I will say you are right,,,its not recruiting, then what is it? Why are we headed towards a 4th NIT in 8 years??? It must be the coaching then,,,no I bet its just poor Garys bad luck???

I am the one that is morally bankrupt???

Please enlighten me on the great state of the MD basketball program that Gary is running right now and for the past 8 years,,,you happy with it???

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Why do you think we will fail if Gary leaves, you cant compare the post Bias death times to today. Everything is on the internet and open now, we would easily find a top coach that could recruit and would most likely do great,,,for every stuggling new coach at a top program you want to pull up, I can find 1 or 2 that came in and did just a great job.

I understand your concern, but do you really want to settle and just be an avg program that is on the bubble every freaking year, Sorry but that is FAILING in the eyes of terps fans,,,or take a chance on some fresh blood that would take us to a consistent Top 10-15 level?

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 5:24 PM | Report abuse

How many "top" programs (by which I mean major conference schools) have hired coaches in the past 10 years, only to switch again, and again, and again without ever recapturing previous success? Successful programs are built upon stability, and while I do agree this program is not a great as it could be right now, I'm not ready to jetison a future HoF coach just to spin the roulette wheel. Too many top programs have gone through too many coaching changes, especially in the ACC, for me to want to give up on a coach who is still winning. If we were talking about Rick Majerous at St. Louis, Tom Davis in his last years at Iowa, Gene Keady in his last years at Purdue, Jud Heathcote in his last years at Michigan State, or Eddie Sutton at the end of his career at Oklahoma State, I'd listen, but Gary has not dropped to that level. His teams are still competing for ACC titles, and he still has yet to lose a 1st round NCAA game in over a decade. There are lots of coaches and programs that so-called epxerts think are successful that can't even compare to what Gary has accomplished in the past 8 years, which by your standards, is horible.

I think I went through this in an earlier thread, but if you look at the most successful programs in college basketball today, almost all of them are led by a coach that's been leading the program for 5+ years. Do you have 5+ years of patience of sub .500 records and NITs to perhaps get somewhere slightly better than the Terps are now? Do you see the pain other programs have gone through with their coaching revolving door? Do you know what UVA, Wake, Clemson, NC State, Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence, DePaul, LaSalle, Cincy, Indiana, Minnesota, Arizona, USC, Michigan, Iowa, Oklahoma State, and other have been through as they search for a coach that can just get close to the consistancy that Gary Williams has given to Maryland?

Do you really want to see how much Kevin Anderson can screw up Maryland athletics after what he's done to the football program? I want the Terps to do better as much as the next person, but the last thing I want is to see them turn back into the laughing stock they were in the late 80's or what a once proud program like Wake Forest has turned into today.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 8, 2011 5:47 PM | Report abuse

awwww poor barnie was scared because I told him to call me a moron to my face at the Duke game, but he wouldnt do it and wouldnt give me his seat number. poor little guy :(

Sorry dbag, but when you start saying things about wanting to see what would happen to me at the game if I stated my individual opinion, I am not going to cower behind the computer like you do and make idol threats, I am going to make a promise to come introduce myself and see what happens, sorry if you took that as a threat.

We are all MD fans, dont be a little scared punk, stand up for yourself and be a man for once. But do it with stats and good thoughts/feedback instead of name calling. Which I am doing now with you because I am immature like that :) hahaha

Keep up the fight barno, you will win a debate some day :)

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 5:47 PM | Report abuse

I actually agree with Russ. Deliberate penetration is always a good thing but in the means he was speaking of, right now I want to see more assists off of guard penetration. The guards need to hit their shots as well, but some of the shots TS has taken have been a bit too WTF for my liking. GV took WTF shots at the end of the shot clock, TS takes them whenever he feels Ike.

We need to replenish depth in the bigs, but right we have BW getting no minutes and JP not getting nearly enough. I refuse to believe that JW is leaving after this season for sanity's sake.

Assuming no injury and the current roster, the biggest change has to be more DP. As a side note, I would like to see more of JP with JW on the floor.

Anyone think BW sees some minutes against Longwood?

Regards -

-hgr

Posted by: HughGRection | February 8, 2011 5:50 PM | Report abuse

See barno, Russ just did a great job and very well thought out. I agree Russ, Kevin scares the #$%@ out of me, terrible football hire. I cant even believe he made that choice.

But, I am just tired of sitting and waiting for Gary to change or turn it around. I kept my mouth shut for years, because he earned his pass,,,but now its been 8 years,,,honestly how much longer before you finally feel he needs to go...if he keeps up this trend of bubble, NIT, 2nd round NCaa loses???? If he starts winning again,,wooohhoooo, I will shut up as will every other Gary hater out there.

But when would you finally give in???

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 5:51 PM | Report abuse

When was the last time he (Gary) failed to make the postseason?

Posted by: Russtinator | February 8, 2011 5:03 PM
----------

Eeeeeeeesh, do we really want to count the NIT as the "postseason"?

Posted by: P00PY_MCP00P | February 8, 2011 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Poopy, no one is bragging about the NIT. But the point is, MD has had at least 19 wins in 17 (soon to be 18) consecutive years. Our very worst seasons in nearly the last two decades were the 3 seasons in which we missed the NCAA by 1 game. Very, very few programs can say that...less than 5 or 6 I bet.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 8, 2011 5:57 PM | Report abuse

C'mon Barno, cm88 is anything but a moron and, while he and Russ disagree, their discourse has been at a high and substantive level. So please Barno, don't start the name calling personal attacks. There are many, many Maryland fans who are not satisfied with the program. There is nothing wrong with an opinion that 8 years is a long stinking time. Fine, go back ten years and you have nirvana. But riddle me this... in two more years are we going to need to go back 12? The only other thing I will say is that I hope that Russ and others try to make their points in something less than a chapter of "From Here to Eternity."

Posted by: petecard | February 8, 2011 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Not to slit hair and get into the typical debate but whether we missed the NCAA's by 1 game or 400 games, the tourney was still missed.

No sugar coating it cause we're all 'bout it, 'bout it.

Posted by: P00PY_MCP00P | February 8, 2011 6:03 PM | Report abuse

It does, at times, seem like the FOG's do move the goalposts a little bit.

Posted by: P00PY_MCP00P | February 8, 2011 6:06 PM | Report abuse

But poop, the season is 5+ months long. There is a big difference between a 19 win team that beats Duke twice/that beats several top 25 teams/that gives the home fans some great times over the course of a season but falls one game short of the tourney...and a team that goes 11-20/with no quality wins/no good times for the home fans and everyone knew the season was over before Jan. 1. You shouldn't equate every season that you miss the tourney the same, they are not all alike.

We were all upset when we missed the tourney in 05, 06, and 08. But just imagine how upset we would have all been had we gone 7-25 in those seasons rather than the 19 win seasons of 05, 06, and 08.

By the way I mistakenly said we'd won 19 games every year for the last 17 years, we actually won 17 in 1995/96...though back then that was still good enough to make the tourney. Times have changed, people need to realize it's a lot harder to make the big dance than it used to me...the fact is there are way more competitive programs now than every before.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 8, 2011 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Simple,,,great example of Vill, especially since they are pulling players for MD, dont have any recruting advantage over MD in terms of location, weather, school ranking, etc. And they brought in a new coach in 2001,,,,here is how they have done the past 6 years

2004-05 Jay Wright 24-8 11-5 NCAA Final 16
2005-06 Jay Wright 28-5 14-2 NCAA Final 8
2006-07 Jay Wright 22-11 9-7 NCAA First round
2007-08 Jay Wright 22-13 9-9 NCAA Final 16
2008-09 Jay Wright 30-8 13-5 NCAA Final Four
2009-10 Jay Wright 25-8 13-5 NCAA Second Round


And they are ranked in the Top 10 this year and 19-4 right now.

Man I would hate to be in Vill shoes right now,,,or over the past 7 years!

Posted by: cm88 | February 8, 2011 5:31 PM | Report abuse

You're really good at selective statistics cm88. However, some important numbers to remember...

2001-02 Jay Wright 19-13 (7-9) NIT
2002-03 Jay Wright 15-16 (8-8) NIT
2003-04 Jay Wright 18-17 (6-10) NIT

Jay Wright at Villanova
National Championships=0
Final Fours=1
Conference Championships=1 (tied regular season)
Don't forget that phone card scandal that almost led to NCAA sanctions.
Number of NBA players=4 (3 on current rosters)

During that SAME time period...

Gary Williams at Maryland since 2001-02
National Championships=1
Final Fours=1
Conference Championships=3 (1 outright regular season, 1 tournament, and 1 tied regular season)
NCAA violations=0
NBA Players=9 (6 on current rosters)

Gary has finished with a sub .500 record the same number of times (twice) in 21+ years at Maryland than Jay Wright has had in 10 years a 'Nova. I think Jay Wright is a great coach, and if I had to pick a guy today to coach Maryland, he's one of a handful that I would pick, but he's not going ANYWHERE.

Were you around in 1996-99 when "fans" just like you were pushing to get Gary fired because he couldn't get past the sweet 16? He made 4 in 6 years, sandwiched between a couple of 1st round losses, and fans were ready to cast him aside because the Steve Francis team couldn't get it done. The year after, the Terps lost in the second round, and he seat was getting hotter, and then he broke through and got to the Final Four in 2001. There were some certified mediocre teams in there, especially the '95-96 team that lost to Charleston (a team that probably wouldn't make the NCAA in today's climate of mid-majors and unbalanced conference schedules), but cooler heads prevailed, and Gary got to prove himself.

Gary, just like Dean Smith, Coach K, Jim Boeheim, Jim Calhoun (cheater), John Wooden (who Gary just tied in wins), Tom Izzo, and Bobby Knight, has earned the right to determine when he finishes his coaching career at Maryland, not a bunch of ungrateful, selectively critical, hacks on a message board.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 8, 2011 6:18 PM | Report abuse

Jay Wright 203-98 (90-60) overall since 2001-02
Gary Williams 200-99 (86-58) overall since 2001-02

Take away both coaches best seasons (Wright in 2005-06 and Gary in 01-02)

Jay Wright 175-93 (76-58)
Gary Williams 168-95 (71-57)

Take away both coaches worst seasons (Wright in 03-04--finished 11th in Big East and Gary in 05-06)

Jay Wright 185-81 (84-50)
Gary Williams 181-86 (78-50)

It's a pretty close comparison. Jay has a very slight edge, but not enough of one to say he's miles better than Gary, despite the perception that Jay Wright is one of the greatest coaches in the country. The records don't lie.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 8, 2011 6:39 PM | Report abuse

We'd have beaten Duke once this year with Greivis - don't know what happened last Wednesday. We need another big to help Jordan. Give Gary time - they're already in the lineup.

Posted by: flynnie321 | February 8, 2011 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Russ, perfectly put. CM88 is either delusional or a Duke fan. Or both.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 8, 2011 7:46 PM | Report abuse

Jay Wright isn't just a coach someone picked out of a hat. He's a great coach. Where's the evidence that we would get another Jay Wright to coach at UMD if Gary got the boot?

Posted by: acebojangles | February 8, 2011 8:13 PM | Report abuse

Check out the top point on this page of a Seth Davis story on SI.com:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/02/07/hoop.thoughts/2.html

Posted by: acebojangles | February 8, 2011 8:16 PM | Report abuse

1 good shooter and 1 great shooter!

Posted by: joeortega4 | February 8, 2011 8:36 PM | Report abuse

The Terps need a consistent shooter from the perimeter, who can also defend at that range.

In other words, a shooting guard or small forward who also can make free throws down the stretch.

Ice water in the veins, is this too much to ask for?

Posted by: rhall2 | February 8, 2011 9:04 PM | Report abuse

I thought the original question was what is the missing piece the to the puzzle. I think it is a offensive threat that can create his own shot inside or from three.in addition,i dont see JW leaving after this season for two reasons he needs to work on his ft shooting and he needs to work on finding the open man when dbl and in some cases triple teamed. if he does that he goes from a top 15 to probably a top 5 especially with the amount of talent that will be around next season

Posted by: toddwhite2004 | February 8, 2011 9:22 PM | Report abuse

cm88 you like to discount every achievement by the Terps bb over the last 10 years. It has been a good ride and we have Gary to thank. What does the man have to do to earn your respect. We all knew this was going to be a rebuilding year and you have to expect some bumps along the way. I still think it is wrong to focus on recruiting when you should be focusing on the players that we have. Compare us to NC State, GT, UVA, Wake. Need I go on. The view looks pretty good from where I am sitting.

Posted by: torope | February 8, 2011 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Lots of comments and to be honest I skipped them because I feel strongly about what is missing and if it was mentioned, please forgive me. In my mind the missing piece is Mosley's continued development. If he had continued to improve like I saw his first two years I am convinced we would have two or three more wins. He is not playing horrible but he has not improved like I had hoped. He has great ball awareness on both offense and defense but I cannot understand how a really good scorer in High School could fall off so much. I really thought Mosley would be a solid #2 to Williams and honestly, we don't have that second person to rely on.

Posted by: sjm3091 | February 8, 2011 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Recruiting, Recruiting, Recruiting
Gary is an average recruiter at best and it's been that way for quite some time. Gary could not even capitalize on a national championship to haul in some top recruits. Given this, I do believe he is a very good coach.

Posted by: NCTerp2009 | February 9, 2011 12:54 AM | Report abuse

An experienced point guard who can run the offense, pass extremely well, and also nail the three pointer down the stretch, such as Steve Blake, or Vasquez.

Posted by: stevestegman | February 9, 2011 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Russ, I wasnt forgetting Vill coaches first 3 years, you mentioned the recent past so I put in the last 6-7 years, but if you want to go back all the way, then you see the records are very similar, except for the National Champ 10 years ago, which again, I am not discounting, Gary did a great job then, but since then...like I have said 100 times, our program is going down hill. If we stay with Gary, whats going to change??? If we get someone else, yeah we may struggle for a bit,,,or we may start recruiting studs and not have to worry about 3 or 4 stars overachieving or hoping to upset teams instead of compete with them...I try and look at things in a positive, if we got a new coach,,,but its hard to be positive with Gary.

Yes Barno, I am delusional now, for wanting a program that isnt going to the NIT for the 4th time in 8 years.

Why cant you or Russ just answer the one questions without a 10 page document or calling me names.....how much more time does Gary get if he keeps up this pattern of NIT's and 2nd round losses in the NCAA's? 8 years is enough for me, but seems like you guys are fine with this low level of "success", because he won a championship 10 years ago.

Here Barno, lets put this in retard language so you can understand...Joe Gibbs won multiple superbowls, but when he came back he did not do a good job,,,was it because he was never a good coach? Or maybe, the game past him by? Did he deserve a lifetime pass as some of you Garylover suggest Gary deserves? Are you happy with the state of the Skins org? Guess what, MD basketball is heading that way, thats us "Garyhaters" issue, he once did a great job, but now he is failing.

Sad Barno that your view of success is the number of 17-20 win seasons, when we all know that most of the seasons are loaded with cupcakes in the beginning of the season, not this season I know, but most. Plus before you go to your stats, most of us terp fans dont give a shiet about number of wins, we want to go deep in the ACC/NCAA tourn and compete and beat top teams, not just get 20 wins and upset Duke once a year...thats a childish mentality, kind of like a skins fan hoping to beat Dallas and doesnt care that we miss the playoffs every year. Grow up kid!!!

Again, for the 100th time, how much longer do you and Russ give him if we go to the NIT this year and next or early losses in the NCAA again?

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 9:44 AM | Report abuse

torope,,,I have given Gary credit if you have paid attention, but its been 8 years, and sorry but I dont compare us to those schools, how about we compare us to other weak programs, then we look even better...thats a weak way of guaging your expectations. Why not put our program up against Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, etc. and other top programs, and see where we fall? I want Maryland Basketball to compete and be looked at as one of the Top 10 programs in the country, and that isnt a unrealistic expectation,,,,I dont want to sit back and say, well goodie we are better than VA, Wake, Ga Tech...who cares, they are not top programs. Sorry Lefty build a great program here and if the NCAA tourn was as easy to get into as it is today, partly due to Gary's cheering for expansion, he would have the best coaching record ever at MD. Now Gary came in and did a GREAT job turning our program back around from the Wade nightmare, but again, he is now failing miserably and it is well documented that he is a terrible,lazy, cocky recruiter that doesnt connect with players/parents.

He has been a very good coach, but over this year and past couple of years, he is getting out coached in a lot of games and losing to weak out of conference teams, its not a good trend, sorry but I think Gary is past his time and we need to move on, just my opinion and its shared by a lot of MD fans.

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 9:53 AM | Report abuse

If CM88 were a Michigan State fan, he would be saying Izzo was being out coached &/or out recruited. Time for him to go.

CM, your opinion is not shared by "a lot" of MD fans. Maybe some, but not a lot.

Posted by: toddwanker | February 9, 2011 10:40 AM | Report abuse

"Yes Barno, I am delusional now, for wanting a program that isnt going to the NIT for the 4th time in 8 years."

No, no one wants to go to the NIT. That's not what makes you delusional. You're delusional because you think Gary Williams is a terrible coach, yet you call yourself a terps fan. You're delusional for thinking Gary "got lucky" by going to back to back final fours, winning 3 ACC titles, winning the national championship, going to 7 sweet 16s, 14 tournament bids etc etc.

The undeniable fact is, you are an absolute moron CM88. You're detached from reality...you just don't realize it.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 9, 2011 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Just thought of something,,,Russ and Barno, one of you have stated that Gary is the only coach to win a Nat Champ without a McD all-american. So we dont need/want them right???? So, what youre saying is that we should now hope that lightening strikes twice, since EVERY other team to EVER win a Nat Champ, had a McD All American.

Dont you think a SMART coach would figure out that you have a better chance/odds to win a Nat Champ WITH a MCD AA, than without and then would go out and try to get some occassionally???

Nah not Gary, he is too good for MCD AA and wants to prove to the world he can do it again, its all about him and not about the MD program, sorry you dont see that! Look how he is doing lately, not 10 years ago when lightening struck once out of (# of years NCAA tourn has been going on) years.

Thats Garyland mentality at its best, when it should be Maryland.

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 10:50 AM | Report abuse

BARNO, again you where too retarded to answer the simple question, very sad!

I never said Gary was a terrible coach, in fact if you paid attention above I said he did a GREAT job! But now was doing a terrible/bad job. He is a terrible recruiter and that is part of coaching, and he has been getting out coached more often lately than he did in the past. Plus, Great coaches, dont usually give up 10 pt leads in 1 min, or 20 pt leads in 1 half, in the biggest games of the season,,,remember dumb dumb?

You really need to learn to read and pay attention, I feel sorry for you now, you just cannot win an argument and you have lost all credibility because every time you are asked to answer a question you start calling someone names.

Yet you are afraid to meet me for a drink to discuss these names you want to call me????

So retard,,,lets try again,,,how many more years does Gary get if he goes to another NIT, what if he does another NIT next year????

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Quite simply, cm chose to go back 6 years for Nova (instead of the 8 years he went back for MD) because 8 years wouldn't have fit his argument as well. Adjust a date here and there and, if no one catches it, an arguments looks stronger. Who cares if it's not comparing equal timeframes?

Posted by: fushezzi | February 9, 2011 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Wankertodd, sorry but I would not call for Mich St coaches job,,,just like if you had paid attention to my posts, you would see that I said for years I kept my mouth shut, because Gary earned a pass. Even in 2004 when we won the ACC tourn, us Garyhaters where hopeful, but then we again fell on our face. So instead of 7 years up with 1 down year,,,we are 7 years down with 1 up. Sorry you dont get it, but we should be a TOP program with an occassional stumble, not an Avg program with the occassional bright spot.

Does that make sense?

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Wankertodd, sorry but I would not call for Mich St coaches job,,,just like if you had paid attention to my posts, you would see that I said for years I kept my mouth shut, because Gary earned a pass. Even in 2004 when we won the ACC tourn, us Garyhaters where hopeful, but then we again fell on our face. So instead of 7 years up with 1 down year,,,we are 7 years down with 1 up. Sorry you dont get it, but we should be a TOP program with an occassional stumble, not an Avg program with the occassional bright spot.

Does that make sense?

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Barno, here is one more reason I mentioned LUCK, Gary did an amazing job with that group of players from 1998-2002, ended with 5 guys that played at the PRO level and they won a Nat Champ.

Whats the chances we will get a group of guys that all 5 end up playing at a PRO level and we win a NAT champ again??? Was that luck or just genius by Gary, that for some reason he cant repeat again????

You take that group out of your stats and look at Garys other 16 years, and you get a very avg coach

4 Sweet 16's in 16 years, but also 4 NIT's going on 5, in 16 Years(No NIT Championships btw). Also, 6 years of 1st or 2nd round losses in the NCAA;'s and 3 years not even making the NCAA.

Does that sound like a GREAT coach or a good coach that had a great/short run? Great coaches maintain high levels of success, which just getting into the NCAA's is not a high level for a MD program.

Sorry but facts are facts,,,Gary has done a great job turning around our program, but has done an avg overall job as a coach!

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Actually fuzz, I went back 6 because Gary's first 3 years where the same as the Vill coaches first 3. Plus, I am trying to do recent history, do you care who won that the Skins won the superbowl x years ago or that we suck now? I care that MD sucks now and has for 8 years, guess I am a loser for wanting my team to be a Top team.

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 11:14 AM | Report abuse

"Plus, Great coaches, dont usually give up 10 pt leads in 1 min, or 20 pt leads in 1 half, in the biggest games of the season,,,remember dumb dumb? "

So Gary was not a great coach in 2001, when the 10 pt blown lead occured? The season he took MD further than any other MD coach in history? Wow, just wow. You really might be the dumbest human being on the face of the earth.

I love how this imbecile cherry-picks his stats. How about this one: MD overcame a 22 pt, 2nd half lead, on the road, against UNC, when Dean Smith coached there. Guess by Certified Moron's definition, this means Dean Smith was not a great coach.

Just curious CM88, did you get dropped on your head as a baby, or are you just naturally this stupid?

Posted by: Barno1 | February 9, 2011 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Are the people on here defending Gary of the 60+ crowd (elderly...senile........etc)?

EVERYONE knows he absolutely makes no effort at recruiting! He sends assistants to the "local" high school games whereas you have Roy, K, Calipari all showing up in person all over the country to recruit the top kids and guess what........they land the top recruits and are relevant (Top 10/20 almost every single year)

Bottom line is Gary won a Natty and all MD fans are thankful, but he doesn't get a pass forever. That was LONG LONG ago. He may be able to leave on his own terms, but don't expect us to sit here and not call him out for his lackluster recruiting!

Get off the rocking chair!

Posted by: KalBlomkist | February 9, 2011 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Indeed Gary is famous for winning the Natty, but he's just as infamous for blowing a 10 point lead in 54 seconds at home AND losing a 20 point lead again to the same team when it really counted.

I mean the man is brilliant as he buried Mike Jones on the bench year after year who clearly couldn't play......lol Our best shooter just rode the pine unless Gary needed to be bailed out of a game then he'd bring him in and let him fire away. (Don't give me the MJ didn't play D either) You put your best players on the floor and he was one of them.

He has one truly talented on this roster and that's Jordan who was overlooked by others. One player? No shooters.....no perimeter scorers.

Posted by: KalBlomkist | February 9, 2011 11:32 AM | Report abuse

@cm88, arguing with Barno and Russ about GW is like p*ssing into the wind. They are drunk on GW's Koolaid. And that's okay because there are many others in Terp Nation just like them. Patience is the key here. I'm not saying that shots shouldn't be fired over the bow of the good ship FOG. I'm just saying that they really don't care how long it takes to get back to at least a Sweet 16. GW is their coach for life. They want to win but they would much rather worship. After all, many of these folks continue to root for the Redskins. Let's face it, virtually all of the teams in the DC Area are perennial losers or choke artists (The Caps). The whole area is numb to NOT winning on the big stage at the most important times. How can you get through to people who are happy with 20 wins when routinely half of them are against cupcakes? These people accept a record that includes 4 NCAA's in 7 years going on eight and not one Sweet 16. They are okay with that. They even argue that we haven't had a losing record in any year and point to that as a positive. It's really all about Gary.

Now I can say all of this and at the same time say and truly hope that we get to and go deep in the tournament this year. I want the team to succeed and I would be delighted if they do. But to many on this site, pointing to the obvious issues is simply heresy.

Posted by: petecard | February 9, 2011 11:34 AM | Report abuse

CM88 is a dumbass. Can we please just ignore his posts. I personally think he's a fan of Duke or UNC and he is trying to sling sh*t on a Terp board.

Posted by: Section505203 | February 9, 2011 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Yet you are afraid to meet me for a drink to discuss these names you want to call me????

So retard
===================================

CM88/KalBlomkist,

So in addition to pathetically creating another name on here to make it look like there are more people backing your idiotic position, you are also making thinly veiled threats at people. You sound like you have some serious issues dude.

People who pick fights on the internet = biggest losers on earth

Posted by: Barno1 | February 9, 2011 11:35 AM | Report abuse

OMG,,,Barno still didnt answer the question, freaking halarious!!! The kid just cant help but look like a dbag and hide behind empty comments. Oh well, atleast I knew who my mom was when I got dropped on my certified moronic head :) Barno you just completed the act of looking like a little kid with a crush on Gary instead of being a MD fan, sorry but you have no credibility.

Yes, I have changed my name to KalBlomkist because??? oh wait, since someone disagrees with you, you instantly go to another defense of name calling or saying its the same guy. Guess that petecard is also me or the other guys that are MD fans that agree with me are alllll me,,,,you are now a confused scared little boy, commical!!!

Oh look, another child called Section, that cannot debate but calls me a Duke/UNC fan since I dont have a mancrush on Gary, but instead want better for the program I love i.e. THE MARYLAND TERPS, not garyland terps, so sad that md fans actually see gary more than the program. Guess that comes when you are still going through puberty.


Youre right Petecard, but its funny that they cant answer simple questions in the debate,,,they just turn and run another direction.

Simple question GARYLOVERS,,,,how much longer do you give gary if he continues to take us to NIT's and early NCAA losses???????????

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 11:53 AM | Report abuse

No, Petecard has been here for years. We know him...we've grown to get along over time. He was basically you 2 years ago, without the ridiculous threats. Then when the Terps made the tourney he was forced to eat his own words (back then it was "we're going to 4 NITs in 5 years"), and especially last year when we won a share of the ACC title.

Reason it is painfully obvious you are KalBlomkist is because no one under that name has ever posted a single comment on this or any other Washington Post blog. A little too convenient they suddenly pop up on a thread way below the fold on the blog and start backing your position in similar language.

We are not all idiots on here cm88...just you.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 9, 2011 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Youre right, I am signing on with different names, yes you caught me,,,,moron!!!

Actually Petecard was right back then and last year, the point is that we shouldnt always be a bubble team, just because we get/squeek into the NCAA's, thats not success, especially if we lose in the 2nd round each time. Last year we sucked until we got into the weak ACC, you again think that is success???? We tied for a share of a weak conf title, and then lose in the first round of the ACC and the 2nd round of the tourn and you call that success??? Really, Petecard should eat his words???? Sounds like he has REAL expectations for his team and not below avg ones.

Ok, again loser, I addressed your comments.

Lets try AGAIN, idiot/Barnie, how many more years do you give Gary of going to NIT's and losing early in the NCAA's before you think we should try a new direction?????

Come on Barni/idiot/loser/child, you can do it,,,answer the question or do you know it will make you look stupid???

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Lets try AGAIN, idiot/Barnie, how many more years do you give Gary of going to NIT's and losing early in the NCAA's before you think we should try a new direction?????

Come on Barni/idiot/loser/child, you can do it,,,answer the question or do you know it will make you look stupid???

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 12:19 PM | Report abuse

I think it's perfectly fair to criticize Gary, and the program has yet to recapture the success it had in from '93 through 2002. However, if you're going to draw criticisms, you cannot be selective in the data that you present to support your arguement.

There are numerous reasons that level of success has not continued, many are completely out of Gary's control (evolution of the recruiting scene and tactics, unbalanced conference schedules, academic/AD requirements of players, and the rise of mid-majors are just a few), and some may certainly be well within his control (accepting changes in recruiting, scheduling, and adapting to changes in the game).

Regardess of whether or not you think Gary can directly control the exacting success of this team, there's still the simple fact that even with the reduced level of success the Terps are currently going through, they are still the 3rd best team in the ACC, behind two of the most storied programs in the country. While, I think it sucks that the Terps have to play bridesmaid to UNC and Duke, at least the Terps are in the wedding party, unlike the rest of the conference, which is watching the ceremony on closed-circuit TV. Gary is the sole reason that the Terps are in the top 3 in the ACC over even a short period like the last 4-5 years. What cm88 is saying is akin to saying that you can't be a successful rock band if you're not the Beatles or Rolling Stones.

Do I want to be up there with UNC and Duke, and other nationally elite programs? Absolutely. But I also don't want to turn into just another team in the ACC, all of which are trying to just get to the level Maryland is at right now. A few of the ACC teams have taken shots here and there (Wake and GaTech most successfully) at getting up to the UNC/Duke/Maryland level, but they have not been able to sustain it.

My goal would be for the Terps to make it into the NCAA Tournament this season and win the first round game and be competitive in the second round (anything above that is gravy). However, next year (assuming the return of Jordan Williams) has to be a top 20 year with a run in the ACC Tournament and play in the second weekend of the NCAA Tournament. I don't think an NIT appearance this season would necessarily be a failure, but Gary would be on notice in 2012 if a significant improvement is not made (assuming JW returning).

You're only as good as your most recent performance, and while Gary is not at the '93-02 level, he's at a level just about every college basketball program would die to be at right now.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 9, 2011 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Russ, wow you have long answers :) But I respect that you put the time in.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you are saying, you are ok with Gary's level of success over the past 8 years? Basically Top 3 in ACC, but going to NIT's, squeeking into the NCAA's, and losing early. Which I would say is great and successful for a George Mason, Davidson, etc., basically the lower-tiered schools of basketball, while still successful programs, should never be judged at the MD level.

If so, that is fine, but that is the key difference, I as a so-called Garyhater, just think we should be a Top 10-20 team every year, competing for championships every year, coasting into the NCAA's every year, not even considering NIT success at any level, even if we won it. None of which we have done in the past 8 years, sorry except for one ACC Tourn(dont want Barno to jump on one point as he always does and not see the big pic).

I understand your views Russ, but if we keep going at this pace, in another 7 years, it will be 15 years of NIT's/early losses in the ACC/NCAA, and we will be saying "hey remember when we won a Nat Championship...I think it was back in 2000 or something" Or "when was the last time we won a ACC tourn or made it to the Sweet 16"???

Maybe you have lower expectations, or maybe you are just more patient, which is fine,,,I just think 8 going on 9 years is enough.

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 3:00 PM | Report abuse

BTW, pretty funny that you had to answer for Barno, guess he finally realized how pathetic he is, whew :)

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 3:03 PM | Report abuse

"We tied for a share of a weak conf title, and then lose in the first round of the ACC and the 2nd round of the tourn and you call that success??? Really, Petecard should eat his words???? Sounds like he has REAL expectations for his team and not below avg ones."

That used to be Kansas' M.O. for years under Roy Williams. Only 1 team can win the ACC Tournament, and only 1 team can win the NCAA Tournament. I do get frustrated with our consistant early exits from the ACC Tournament (only been to 2 finals in Gary's tenure), especially the one at Verizon Center, but last year was very successful. They finished the year in the top 25, lost their last game on a heartbreaking buzzerbeater to the regional representative in the Final Four, had the ACC PoY, ACC CoY, and tied for the regular season conference title. Really, if that's not successful enough for you, you're watching the wrong sport. Maybe you should be a Syracuse fan, who waited through 27 years of Jim Boeheim with 3 first round exits, 4 NITs, 1 season without the postseason, and 2 Final Fours before breaking through with a title in 2003. He's since been to 2 NITs and been bounced twice in the first round of the NCAA Tournament.

I just want to see some of these haters give credit where credit is due, because Maryland would be a wasteland of a program under just about any other coach, and Maryland basketball continues to be a nationally relevant program because of Gary Williams.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 9, 2011 3:10 PM | Report abuse

I have given Gary credit in many posts for turning our program back around, but I do disagree that we would have been a wasteland. Lefty built this program and then Gary helped re-build it, now I feel he is tearing back down.

I get why you see last year as successful, we ended up over-achieveing to some point, but honestly, last year should be the exception as more of a down year, not a high point of the past 8 years. We had a "good" year but it is surrounded by bad years, like this year and honestly next year, looks very bleak, especially if Jordan leaves,,,yikkeesss!!! But even with him, I dont see a dominant team, I see a very good player surrounded by avg pieces unless this frosh is amazing.

Trust me, 100's of coaches would be fighting for this job, would be quitting their jobs to come to MD. Yes that is because of what Lefty did and what Gary did, but I think it is time for a change.

I love Lefty, but I wouldnt want him to coach here, his time has past. Thats how I feel about Gary, love what he did for us, but I think his time has past.

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you are saying, you are ok with Gary's level of success over the past 8 years? Basically Top 3 in ACC, but going to NIT's, squeeking into the NCAA's, and losing early. Which I would say is great and successful for a George Mason, Davidson, etc., basically the lower-tiered schools of basketball, while still successful programs, should never be judged at the MD level.
Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Yes, I am OK with that, because the alternative is not nearly as good. I've seen what other marquee programs have been dealing with trying to get their programs on track after losing iconic coachs. Even mighty UNC went on that 3 year Matt Dougherty experiment. I don't want to go through what successful programs like Arizona, California, Stanford, UCLA, Indiana, Michigan, UMass, UVA, Wake, Clemson, NC State, and others have been going through. I don't want to be the butt of jokes like Wake and UVA have been the past couple of years in the ACC. I don't want to have to think if should the Terps should give their new coach another year when he has yet to take the team to the tournament in 5 years, like NC State. I'd rather stick with the known quanitity that will more often than not deliver a competitive team that will finish in the upper echelon of the conference, likely get into the NCAA Tournament, and that gives the Terps a shot at the NCAA Title every 5-10 years (I think next year is that shot if everything lines up).

If there was a track record of ACC programs brining in a new coach and consistantly winning after a couple of years of "rebuilding," then I could see you point. However, the reality is that GaTech under Paul Hewitt is the only other ACC program other than Duke, UNC, and Maryland to make a Final Four in 20 years (1990 GaTech under Bobby Cremmins), and Hewitt can't get out of the basement of the ACC right now. If it was just as easy as changing coaches to the "hot" assistant or mid-major head coach, there would be other teams challenging in the ACC. The results show that it's just not that easy, and even if you happen to find someone to get your head above the midline (Herb Sendick, Seth Greenburg, Leonard Hamilton) on a semi-consistant basis, it's still not better than what Gary has done.

I'm guessing that you would rather spend a minimum 3 years of suckitude (9 to 14 win seasons) with the 5% chance of getting a coach that can just match what Gary has done over the past 10 years, the 0.1% chance of finding that guy who is a Jay Wright/Jamie Dixon-type that will exceed what Gary has donw over the past 22+ years, and a 94.9% chance of having the next Sidney Lowe/Frank Haith/Buzz Pederson/Billy Gillespie/et al. and looking for a new coach and another roll of the dice.

A coach like Gary Williams come along once in a generation, and fans should enjoy it while he's still willing to coach, because letting go of a legend is the quickest way to the bottom.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 9, 2011 3:37 PM | Report abuse

cm88, you really should take my advice. The urine is starting to dry.

Posted by: petecard | February 9, 2011 3:53 PM | Report abuse

In the famous words of Ron Burgandy, Anchorman,,,agree to disagree :)

Good call petecard :)

Go Terps, beat Longwood....and ummmm hope to make the NCAA's this year, ugh!!!

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Trust me, 100's of coaches would be fighting for this job, would be quitting their jobs to come to MD. Yes that is because of what Lefty did and what Gary did, but I think it is time for a change.

I love Lefty, but I wouldnt want him to coach here, his time has past. Thats how I feel about Gary, love what he did for us, but I think his time has past.

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I wish I shared your optimism. Maryland is not a "destination" program. It's going to draw interest from low major and mid-major coaches, not coaches from established programs. It's on that second tier of schools below Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA, Indiana, Syracuse, Michigan State, UConn, UNC, and Duke. In terms of prestige, I think the Maryland job is probably on par with Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, Pitt, Georgia Tech, Ohio State, Texas, Oklahoma State, Cal, Arizona, and Stanford. I applaud your perception of Maryland as an elite program that coaches would vacate great jobs for, but the fact of the matter it just isn't.

Not only that, does ANYONE here really want to see what Kevin Anderson would do with a head basketball coach vacancy?

I rest my case!

Posted by: Russtinator | February 9, 2011 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Not going to disagree with you on the Kevin comments, I am not a huge MD Football fan, was when I was young, but after years of avg performance, I lost interest. I guess thats what I am scared of with the BBall program, I personally know of several longtime season ticket holders that cancelled because of the high cost compared to the low quality of the teams, and my company was a suite owner and they just cancelled this year because of the same issue. Thats not a good sign for the bball program,,,just like the skins, I never thought season ticket holders would cancel. ugh!!!

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Not going to disagree with you on the Kevin comments, I am not a huge MD Football fan, was when I was young, but after years of avg performance, I lost interest. I guess thats what I am scared of with the BBall program, I personally know of several longtime season ticket holders that cancelled because of the high cost compared to the low quality of the teams, and my company was a suite owner and they just cancelled this year because of the same issue. Thats not a good sign for the bball program,,,just like the skins, I never thought season ticket holders would cancel. ugh!!!

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Every basketball team is going through issues like this. I think in general season tickets for sporting events just aren't the same draw they were 10-15 years ago.. I think it has to do with the product saturation on television, and a lot has to do with the price. The same goes with suites as many companies are cutting discressionary spending. I mean, I feel like I have to explain to my company why I need toilet paper to wipe my a$$, because they've cut down on anything that doesn't directly lead to revenue. Jerryworld will probably be the last major stadium based on the suite-model of revenue.

Even the big-time college programs that don't have any competition for entertainment dollars aren't selling out their areas everynight (KU, UNC, Tenn, UT, Minn, Oregon--brand spnkin' new place, etc...) despite having competitive teams. I personally don't have basketball season tickets because they're pretty expensive, and any weekday game is pretty much impossible for me to get to, way harder then when they played in Cole.

Is it a problem? Yes. Is a problem directly related to the success of the team? Perhaps. Is a problem that is isolated to just this program? Nope.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 9, 2011 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Again, good points overall,,,buutttt, I can tell you personally, that my company did not cut it for cost cutting reasons, it was for a poor product and they couldnt get anyone to go. My friends are the same way, ex MD grads all of us make good money, but the product was not worth cost. The seat cost and the extra Season ticket holder fee, just made it too expensive to watch an inferior product. If we where truly competing, then I would buy and so would my buddies in 2 seconds. Just like I would if the skins where winning, its just to expensive to go watch a losing team and waste my time driving/parking etc. And I think thats a majority of the fans issues, low quality product compared to cost of the product.

Now if I was a student, I would be at every game, cheap tickets for a cheap product :)

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 4:58 PM | Report abuse

"The seat cost and the extra Season ticket holder fee, just made it too expensive to watch an inferior product."

What extra "season ticket holder fee?" Maryland does not have PSLs, and the only fee they impose is a "processing fee" of $20 when you buy the tickets. It used to be that you had to be a long-standing member of the Terrapin Club to even be offered season tickets (a primary reason I initially purchased football season tickets to increase my standing for basketball season tickets), but since the move to Comcast (more seats) and other factors (economy, TV coverage, and performance), you no longer need to be a Terrapin Club member to get basketball season tickets.

Most of the anecdotes I have are from friends that have either dropped their season tickets or gone to half-season plans because they could no longer afford them, didn't think they were worth the price because they could always watch the Terps on TV, or hated trying to get on and off campus before and after games.

Posted by: Russtinator | February 9, 2011 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Not sure what the fee is, but when I was out in CA several of my buddies cancelled the tickets because they said some fee went up, maybe it was for Terp Club membership, not sure.

Yeah, I just buy them a game at time now. I am really only interested in the Duke/UNC games, the rest of the league is zzzzzzzz now. Almost went to the NY tourn(forgot the name) but couldnt rally anyone to go.

Alright out of here, wasted enough time at work today having fun on here :) I hope you are right about Gary, would love nothing more than for him to turn this back around.

Go terps!!!

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Easy answer: Someone whho can consistently shoot more han a jump shot. Where's Eric Hayes?

Posted by: break20 | February 10, 2011 2:26 AM | Report abuse

BTW, pretty funny that you had to answer for Barno, guess he finally realized how pathetic he is, whew :)

Posted by: cm88 | February 9, 2011 3:03 PM | Report abuse

I was at the game tough guy. Some of us support our team against teams other than Duke, you frontrunning, fairweather, d0uchebag.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 10, 2011 12:36 PM | Report abuse

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