June 24: Immigration partisans dig in

Lawmakers on both sides of the immigration debate dug in their heels in advance of the Senate once again taking up an immigration overhaul bill this week.

Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.), an architect of the bill, was confident on ABC's "This Week" that it would pass. "It's tough, fair, and practical," he said. "The American people know that we can't have bumper sticker solutions. The cliches, slogans, that we hear on the Senate floor are not going to solve our problem."

Nevertheless, Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), an outspoken opponent of the bill, pledged to do everything possible to kill it. "We're going to use every effort to slow this process down and continue to hold up the bill," he said on the same show.


Sen. Ted Kennedy and Jeff Sessions

The bill, which combines tougher enforcement measures with a path to legalization for the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in the country, stalled a few weeks ago. The threat of a filibuster still looms, but both parties hope that they can get to a final vote on the bill this time. Even so, passage is far from guaranteed.

Republican and Democratic supporters of the bill stressed that $4.4 billion will be spent immediately on border security if the bill becomes law.

"Twelve-and-a-half million -- 12.5 -- undocumented that today fear that they may be deported or their children may be deported will know that they are legal here in the United States," Kennedy said. "They're going to have to follow tough rules, but they're going to be legal."

Sessions said heavy lobbying by President Bush, who has made the immigration reform bill one of the chief items on his domestic agenda, has not succeeded in convincing skeptical Republicans of the bill's merit.

"We have a disagreement. He's selling, and a lot of people believe in, a vision of comprehensive reform, which I share. My difficulty is, this bill will not achieve that vision. It will not work. We will be on the verge of giving an amnesty for 12 million people, but not getting a legal system in the future that will work," Sessions said.

He said support for the bill "continues to erode. A lot of key senators that were thought to be supportive have announced in recent days that they don't support it. The poll numbers continue to plummet."

On other Sunday shows, Republican and Democratic supporters of the immigration approach seemed to speak with each other's voices.


Sens. Trent Lott and Dianne Feinstein

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) reminded "Fox News Sunday" viewers "there will be border enforcement ... before any other part of the bill goes into place," while Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.), the minority whip, said, "We should secure the border first but there's more to it than that. ... I'm trying to get a result here."

On NBC's "Meet the Press," conservative commentator Patrick Buchanan parried with Rep. Luis V. Gutierrez (D-Ill.), the chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.

"The whole world is watching. If we give this amnesty, I truly believe it is the beginning of the end of the United States as we know it," said Buchanan.

"You've got 12 million people here illegally and you make them legal in 24 hours. ... That's amnesty," he later added.

But Gutierrez countered, "It's a broken system but ... what are we going to do with the 12 million people already here?"


Rep. Luis Gutierrez and Patrick Buchanan

Gutierrez said current deportation efforts are the most aggressive they have ever been, and "at that rate it would take 65 years to rid this nation of all undocumented workers."

"It isn't practical to our national security," he added.


Iraq War

Discussion of the war primarily looked ahead to September.

That month, Gen. David Petraeus, the U.S. commander in Iraq, is expected to brief lawmakers and the president on the success of Bush's strategy to quell violence in Baghdad and the surrounding regions by sending in 30,000 more troops.

"I think September becomes an important month," Feinstein said. "You will have the assessment of General Petraeus, which most likely will say the situation is mixed. Now, is a mixed situation such that the Congress is going to lie down and stay quiet? I don't think so."

Lott, however, said that the last of the troop "surge" has just recently arrived. "Let's at least give him and our men and women that are fighting a very important war there and, you know, putting their lives on the line every day ... a chance, and see how it goes, and get a report as to how things are going come September."

He acknowledged, however, that the "status quo is not acceptable."

Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the U.S. military's second-in-command in Iraq, said on CNN's "Late Edition" he will recommend in September "how much longer ... coalition forces have to remain."

He continued, "A lot of that has to do with the ability of the Iraqi security forces as well as the progress that we are making with security. And what I said is if the Iraqi security forces continue to improve and we are successful, there's a potential that we could withdraw by the spring."

Odierno added, "I do see the Iraqi army improving every day. I do see them fighting alongside us, and sometimes independently here in Baghdad and the surrounding areas. They are nowhere near where they need to be yet. But they are beginning to improve. The issue becomes, how far along will they be, and how much will they be able to take over when we're prepared to turn it over to them?"

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) said Iraqis are failing to achieve any benchmark of progress.

"We're just not making the progress we need for a national reconciliation there. We are not going to get a military settlement," he said on CNN's "Late Edition." "What we've really seen is a surge of overly wishful rhetoric."

Even Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-Tex.) said she is not satisfied with the progress and advocates "a different approach than even we are doing now."


Democratic control of Congress

With approval ratings for Congress plummeting to historic lows -- with dissatisfaction among Democratic voters a main reason -- Democratic lawmakers were asked why they have failed to change U.S. policy toward Iraq.

"When we took over the House, took over the Senate, although the Senate is just a bare majority, I think people had the expectation, not knowing the rules of the Senate, 'Wow, we would be able to move this country out of Iraq.' Well, the Senate works very differently," Feinstein said. "You need 60 votes for virtually anything that's controversial, and so it's not that easy to obtain the goal. I think people don't understand this."

Kennedy was asked whether the Democratically-controlled Congress should be considered a failure if 100,000 troops remain in Iraq on Election Day 2008.

He replied: "I'm not going to get into the number of troops there or not there at the time. I voted against the war. I've said frequently it's the best vote I ever cast in my life in the United States Senate."

Kennedy estimated a few more Republicans might join the Democratic effort to compel withdrawal this September. "The president's going to get a timetable again. And we're going to keep at it until we're successful. And I think we're going to pick up increasing support."

He likened the experience of trying to end the war to previous unpopular foreign ventures for the U.S. "It'll get there," he said. "We got there at the time of Vietnam. It took too long. We got there in the Contra war. And that took too long. And we're going to get there on Iraq."

Lott said that in recent years, Republicans and Democrats have put partisanship before legislation. "Republican and Democrat Congresses quit acting. We quit producing results. We couldn't find a way to come together on anything, on energy, on health care. And when the new Congress came in, the House of Representatives under Speaker [Nancy] Pelosi thought, 'Well, we'll just pass our agenda and ram it right through.' ... That's not the way it works in Congress."

But Feinstein countered, "If you look at the actual record of the time the Democrats have been in power, you will see substantial things have happened." As examples, she cited ethics reform, a hike in the minimum wage and a major energy bill.


Static from talk radio

With conservative talk radio blasting Republicans and Democrats for their support of immigration reform, Feinstein said she is exploring whether to revisit the "fairness doctrine," which, before being abolished in 1987, required that broadcasters present controversial issues in a balanced manner.

"I think there ought to be an opportunity to present the other side. And unfortunately, talk radio is overwhelmingly one way," Feinstein said. "I do believe in fairness. I remember when there was a fairness doctrine, and I think there was much more serious, correct reporting to people."

Lott, who was the subject of withering criticism on talk radio for his general support for immigration reform, said he opposes a fairness doctrine and that it is up to senators to do a better job of communicating why they do what they do.

"We never bother to explain what we're trying to do and what is in it. I think that was the mistake that was made with immigration. Talk radio defined it without us explaining that there were reasons for it and the good things that were in it," he said. "So the onus is not on them, it's on us to do a better job of communicating what we're trying to do."

A Bloomberg candidacy

Sam Waterson, the "Law and Order" actor, is serving as a spokesman for Unity08, an online effort to recruit a bipartisan presidential ticket. Invited on CBS's "Face the Nation," he was asked whether New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg fits the Unity08 model.

"Well, he certainly would. And it is one of the names that has been talked about in regard to Unity08. The thing is that the people, in an online convention, will decide who the candidate is going to be. So it's not for me or anybody else to anoint a candidate, but certainly Bloomberg is a very likely one. And it seems to me that it's very telling about the condition of the process right now that he would choose to become an independent, having tried being a Democrat and having tried being a Republican. He's a very competent, very able, very successful mayor and he's chosen to be an independent."

By Zachary Goldfarb |  June 24, 2007; 3:32 PM ET
Previous: June 24 Preview: Immigration From All Angles | Next: July 1 Preview: Immigration Post Mortem, and Iraq

Comments

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Radio Talks hosts are showing just one side of a very complex issue that noy olny involves money, but the future of human beings. The so called Journalist like Lou Dobbs are using fear tactics, using numbers (not based on any proved source) to spread an anti immigrant idea. What happened with the generosity of America? Is this country moving towards a closed society? LEt's look at the facts, dont be fooled by the ideas and lies of the ones that oppose the bill. By the way look for the concept of the word AMMESTY, because the bill that will be discussed is very far from that. Open your mind and your hearts to those that havent done anything to you. Support the ones in need , one day may be you will be in their shoes.

Posted by: Joan C. | June 24, 2007 4:05 PM

How can this drunken killer still be in our political system,send this drunk back to Mass,and get rid of all the illegals.I am sick and tired of paying for everything from my taxes and having to go witout.YOU SUCK DC!!!

Posted by: Anonymous | June 24, 2007 4:23 PM

The end of Slavery in the South and the end of Child Labor and the passing of Labor Laws in the North unlashed Innovation and Prosperity and made this Nation rich. The Prosperity of the Nation would never have occurred had we keep the White Slavery in the North and Black Slavery in the South! Currently Illegal Aliens are the 21 Century Slaves! They are being exploited by Business because it is cheaper to hire them and let the Tax payers pay for their benefits than invested in technology. They are being exploited by Democrats under the theory you can never have too many Welfare votes! But in the end the cost of Illegal Aliens is a cost that cannot be sustained. Because most Illegal Aliens are poorly educated they far exceed the amount they contribute society by their Welfare Cost! In addition, their crime rate, school drop rate, Births out of wed lock, percent on Welfare, is outrageous. More Americans Citizens are killed every year than the terrorist have killed in 10 years including 9/11 Plus our military deaths. In addition 10,s of thousands more are raped and robbed by Illegal Aliens each year!

When we close our Borders and Illegal Aliens start returning to their home countries this Nation will make great improvements in every area!

1. Our Federal & State Welfare cost will decrease by Billions & our tax Receipts will increase by billions
2. Our crime & cost, both in money and human suffering will take a Hugh drop down
3. Our schools will make a great improvement in the education of our children & cost decrease
4. Innovation will increase
5. Medical care will improve and cost will go down
6. Insurance cost will decrease
7. The increase in wages & the 60 billion currently going out of country now will create a large increase in demand for goods and services & new businesses and expanding business & our economy will soar
8. Even business that think they must have Slave labor to survive will find they are more profitable & new revenues & sources for profits will increase. (As Henry Ford discovered if he wanted to sell cars he must pay a livable wage so people could afford his cars)
9. Our standard of living will go up
10. But maybe the most important benefit will be stopping the influx of Illegal Aliens with their loyally to other Nations & hate for all things American, that if left unchecked will tear our society apart!


Posted by: bl | June 24, 2007 4:32 PM

Why to use offensive comments to make a point. Show some respect for a guy that have done so much for our country. What have you done? People like you is exactly why most of the World dislike Americans. Fortunally, most of us are not like you.

Posted by: Marco. P | June 24, 2007 4:37 PM

Rush Limbaugh has a lot of nerve. Why it it wasn't for his immigrant Nanny, he would have had to make hand-to-hand buys of his drug of choice rather than rely on the services of the hired help!

Posted by: Ben | June 24, 2007 4:44 PM

Oh my god!!!I am amazed by the bad things illegal immigrants bring to the country . Let's deport them, we dont need them. Let's start paying five times what we pay for vegetables, fruits, etc. And, let's see who can afford to eat in this country anymore? MAy be you are willing to pay $500 for a hotel room. I think your vacations will be over very soon. And forget about eating at restaurants...the cooks are illegals. The reality is that they need to be here, but WE need them also.

Posted by: Lindsay | June 24, 2007 4:48 PM

You all make me laugh -- for years the support for this ILLEGAL war was strong, support for the fascist regime in power led to this mess- the U.S. Public deserves just what it voted for and that's just what it has gotten. ENJOY -- YOU caused this mess -- look in the mirror at your lazy asses and see who is responsible and then take the responsibility to change it or quit whining!

Posted by: dpb | June 24, 2007 4:49 PM

The post that was made 04:23 PM, "How can this drunken killer still be in our political system,send this drunk back to Mass,and get rid of all the illegals.I am sick and tired of paying for everything from my taxes and having to go witout.YOU SUCK DC!!!", really added a great deal of information to this debate. It is no wonder that this cretin didn't leave a name as he/she can't spell or punctuate.

Amnesty is racism and it is time for this country to allow people seeking a better life to do just that. Our ancestors did the same.

Posted by: MICHAEL1945 | June 24, 2007 4:50 PM

bl

Where did these statistics come from? I have never seen anything like this unless it comes from a Nazi or white power website.

Posted by: MICHAEL1945 | June 24, 2007 4:53 PM

The disgusting Amnesty Bill that the Senate is trying to shove down our throats should be renamed the "Destroy America" Bill because that is exactly what it would do. The only solution to the immigration mess is to deport every single illegal in this country, build a huge double fence along the entire Mexican border, and impeach George Bush.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 24, 2007 4:57 PM

I feel betrayed by the president and all the other goody to shoes bleeding heart hypocrits!
Our laws mean nothing any more and the rest of the world lost respect for us!
Try to enter eligally into any other country (look at Mexico itslef)
and you'll find out that you will wind up in jail and get deported Fast!
Here, the illegals get all the things free that the rest of us must pay for! They also protest and demand their rights!!!??
Do we have any rights left? People we voted for are betraying us! For the people by the people! What a farce!

Posted by: Willy Kratill | June 24, 2007 5:03 PM

The Illegal Alien Politicians has used the excuse in every Amnesty bill passed to date that it is necessary to fix a broken Immigration system. It is broken because both parties have refused to abide by the Constitution against Invasion, Failed to enforce the Immigration Laws, and failed to honor their Oath of office! The next Amnesty will be the same, Amnesty but no enforcement! Any Amnesty is saying in effect we have given away any pretense of controlling our borders, enforcing our Laws or setting a policy about Immigration for this Nation and let other Nations & Illegal Aliens decide what our Immigration policy should be! If we pass an Amnesty for the 20 million Criminal here now, Mexico will have in fact taken this nation and it is only a matter of time before they built the same type society here they have built in Mexico. A society of Corruption, Crime, Poverty, Misery and Cruelly!
INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants
2006 (First Quarter)
95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.
86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.
75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually
53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.
50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.
71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or "transport coyotes".
47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.
63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens
66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens.
BIRTH STATISTICS
380,000 plus "anchor babies" were born in the U.S. in 2005 to illegal alien parents, making 380,000 babies automatically U.S.citizens and, under our laws, entitled to invite the rest of their family to join them.
97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayers.
66% plus of all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

Posted by: BL | June 24, 2007 5:10 PM

Send the illegals packing! AMNESTY? Why reward these people for breaking the law from the get go? Are these people insane? Where I live the illegals account for the most DUI's ( not to mention the people they are killing by this, and yes there have been 2 causalties in the last month by illegals), they flagrantly sell drugs and their gangs are the fastest growing ones in the US. They steallicense plates so they can drive with no license, no insurance and God forbid they are in an accident... they RUN.

I say build that fence 20 feet high, and electrify it!

Posted by: go4gin | June 24, 2007 5:13 PM

Bill O'Reilly had a short and to the point Immigration Reform Policy. Basically, having all illegals register & deportation of those who commit crimes while here. Worth a read on his web site.

Posted by: Charlene | June 24, 2007 5:17 PM

There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no special ballots for elections; all government business will be conducted in our language.

Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.

Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.

Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs.

Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT options will be restricted. You are not allowed waterfront property. That is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies, if you do you will be sent home.

If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down and sent straight to jail.

Harsh, you say?.................

The above laws happen to be the immigration laws of " MEXICO

So, Why should they receive special benefits, that we as American citizens, could never receive in their country?

Posted by: hubbleman007 | June 24, 2007 5:17 PM

The Hispanic caucus and Democrats have been trying to make this a racist issue while also coupling it with a statement of "it's up to you Republicans."

The reality is that there is one strong point that the majority of Americans agree on: citizen ship for the Illegals already here and how it is provided, if provided at all. A small minority is saying "kick them out", but the majority of us against this bill recognize this would be extremely difficult. Additionally, this is the case because of our rotten government - both parties! So we don't trust any of the rhetoric they throw our way hoping for reelection.

In reality, the Hispanic caucus and the Democrats need to agree to make all those here illegally today to go to the back of the line for citizenship with no promise that they will get it; just like other countries' citizens who come to America. If they would agree to this, the bill would pass. Simple as that. And I cannot understand for the life of me, why that is such a bad thing.

Finally, I have read through the entire 303 pages and it is seriously flawed. Democrats added so many crazy additions that it no longer is coherent. I believe it is politicking and they truly want it to fail. Hispanics, wake up and understand US politics, Democrats are not your friends.

As a result of America's rotten government, our family has begun the process of becoming Australian citizens. Our son doesn't need to waste his life in a country where dirty politics are the norm. That's the problem in Mexico - rotten politics and a broken culture. The USA is following them into the sewer. And that comment has nothing to do with immigrants, it is all about Big Business, Big Labor, Money and lack of term limits that keeps crooks in Washington.

Posted by: Kev | June 24, 2007 5:17 PM

BL, where do you get these numbers? You should think about coming to Los Angeles and start a career as an advisor for a fiction movie " the invasion of alliens: the Illegals, the end of CAlifornia." By the way one of the richiest and most productive states of the country I wonder why?. Your imagination has no limits. Facts are different that opinions, but yours are really funny

Posted by: Elen | June 24, 2007 5:19 PM

We may as well import the rest of Mexico's citizens as we have already imported their corrupt form of "government." One in which politicians pick and choose which laws will be enforced based on the influence of the rich and corporate interests. Just look America at the state in which we find ourselves, ready to repeat the same crooked "compromise" that was foisted on us in 1986.

Posted by: George | June 24, 2007 5:21 PM

i say let them stay when you drink your orange juice in the morning or put tomatos in your salad think of who touched them first not blacks not whites

Posted by: julie | June 24, 2007 5:25 PM

i say let them stay when you drink your orange juice in the morning or put tomatos in your salad think of who touched them first not blacks not whites

Posted by: julie | June 24, 2007 5:26 PM

i say let them stay when you drink your orange juice in the morning or put tomatos in your salad think of who touched them first not blacks not whites

Posted by: julie | June 24, 2007 5:26 PM

Do you think so little of your country that would sell it for cheap orange juice and salad mix?

Posted by: George | June 24, 2007 5:28 PM

Hola Mi Amigos!!!

Oops, I mean OMG!!! Imigre! Hasta!!!

Ha Ha!

Seriously now.

How dumb can everyone in this Country actually be? We do not have an Immigration Problem. They seem to be immigrating in even faster than we seem to be able to handle or want!

What we have is a law enforcement problem!

We seem to feel employers now can just ignore protectionist measures that worked well for Decades! First step in stopping Un-Documented and Illegal Residents from being here is to not allow them subsidence.

We seem to have all swallowed some sort of BS that is making us do the exact opposite!

Bust the Law-Breaking and America Betraying Employers!

Stop any and all benifits to anyone not properly here!

Congress has initiated HR-1940: Birthright Citizenship Act to stop the Anchor Baby Caca-Now just RATify IT!!!

Close every single Day Labor Assembly Station and tell employers to call Industrial Temporary Worker Firms to get verified and insured legal workers!

Throw every single City Official who ever OK'ed the status of "Sanctuary" to their regions of oversight in JAIL for obstruction of federal laws!-Guilliani!

No mas trabajo, no mas invasario! Comprende?

Posted by: RAT-The | June 24, 2007 5:31 PM

BL, thank you for speaking the truth. I love it when someone who tries such weak tactics says "well, where did you get those stats?" and it's a credible source.

I've been through the LEGAL immigration process with a member of my family. Believe me, it's not an easy process. Now, they're going to reward everyone who broke the law? I say that's BS.

BL has it correct. And to that point, this bill will create a permanent slave-class inside of this country. This ISN'T what this what makes this country great.

It's time to enforce the laws on the books. Give Congress a 2 year unpaid suspension for idiocy. If you took the salaries of all of those high-priced politicians and put it into salaries of people who actually do something, imagine what would get done.

Don't think that's the case? Why does Congress have a lower approval rating than the president?

Posted by: Efaust93 | June 24, 2007 5:31 PM

A lot is being said and a lot of effort is being expended to manage the "problem" of illegal immigration. I don't care -- they're wasting my time when people get worked up about these issues.

If the illegal immigrants want to work in the bean and tomato fields for wages lower than that of Americans, I can't do anything about that. If they're being mistreated then we should be concerned about that and the appropriate organizations should be brought into play and the offending parties should be prosecuted. Am I concerned about them taking my Social Security benefits? Well, if they pay into Social Security, then I'm not. Do they pay other taxes like sales, income and property? If they do, then they should realize the benefits that go along with those taxes. I don't care who's picking those vegetables, it's not a big concern in my life.

However, where I am concerned is in the area of Amereican jobs going off-shore -- that's something that should concern all consumers. Ever try to get customer support, say like with your phone bill? After a significant amount of time going through automated menus and waiting on hold, you're rewarded with a very poor connection to a non-English speaking customer support specialist in either the Philippines or in Pune, India. Why is that? Why is that such a good idea? Why can't we save these jobs for Americans?

That's where the politicians should be looking rather than doing some kind of magic trick to divert my attention elsewhere. Don't go blaming the illegal immigrant for the issues that are flooding the airwaves -- the fault lies with corporate America. How many software professionals are competing with immigrants who come to this country, sponsored by large corporations? This is the immigration problem we should be concerned with.

Remember my words the next time you call for customer service and you have an experience that is less than satisfactory. Don't blame the illegal, blame politicians and the corporation.

Posted by: James Miklasevich | June 24, 2007 5:31 PM

There are scores of legal aliens who deserve more attention then these illegal ones. Our Goverment does nothing for the legal ones. While there is some dependency on these illegal ones. I guess most of these are from habit and am sure we would all learn to live without them. I say "pack em"

Posted by: jim.morgan@hotmail.com | June 24, 2007 5:35 PM

I urge every American Citizen to stand up against this administration and say NO to Immigration Reform!

Secure our Borders and Enforce our Existing Laws!

Please call/email Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Pass this on to all of your friends and family and urge them to speak up now.

The America we know and love is in jeopardy of Washington corruption. Stand up for yourself and for your country. Call and email your congressional representatives and remind them they are a government
created "by the people, for the people" and we will not stand for their disrespectful actions.

This is not an issue that can be dealt with in the voting booths...we need to act now! This bill is going to be brought up to the Senate again this week, slightly revised, but with all the same bad ingredients that will raise your taxes, reduce your wages and decrease your children's education.

Here are the links for you to email/call your Senators and House of Representatives to say NO to immigration reform.

Link to Senate:
http://www.senate.gov

Link to House of Representatives:
http://www.house.gov

TRULY THIS IS A WAKE UP CALL FOR ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS. STAND UP FOR YOUR COUNTRY AND SAY NO! TO IMMIGRATION REFORM!

Then...keep in mind when voting in 2008, make a list of your congressional representatives who supported this reform bill and VOTE THEM OUT in '08!

It's time to clean up Washington Americans.

Lisa

Posted by: Lisa | June 24, 2007 5:37 PM

ultimately, what is being advocated is
peasants fighting peasants.....for the same piece of pie

homegrown, vs _illegal_

_IILEGALS_ are willing to take your land without earning it by becoming citizens....going through the same process as your foreftathers....
.

instead, they want to butt in line...because they're Mexicans...and if you don't give them what they want, they'll take their flags and "go home," or start trouble...which is it?

who cares?

as the reich take advantage of both groups, and use them against each other...

GET WISE! you're being sold out by your elite rieche owners, dear slaves....

that's what you're not addressing, and to some extent I consider that elitist cowardice, by the MSM...

OUTSOURCING, has already moved most MIDDLE CLASS BLUE COLLAR jobs overseas, and our citizens ARE being treated like 3rd world citizens...

and the ones that are managing to maintain their tenuous hold on the middle class...

are being compared to wage earners in Pakistan, as_IF that were a FAIR COMPARISON...

autoworkers are told, give up your benefits, your vacations, your pensions or your jobs are going overseas...

look at this:
we just passed laws allowing unpaid overtime...
we just passed laws reducing benefits for social security and medicare, reduced foodstamps by $380 million
with the incursion of outsourcing was a surge in bankruptcies that we passed tougher laws to protect the corporations
but not the citizens.

we increased tax breaks for the richest 3 percent...which in effect would pretty much embrace the corporations...

who would allowing illegal immigrants to come in more easily help?

those that want to pay less money for labor,
the corporations.

who would catering to illegal immigrants hurt?
those who would have to share an increasingly smaller pie... CITIZENS...

americans peasants, a section that has been expanding rapidly over the last 20 years as
blue collar jobs with benefits move overseas...

and AMERICA WORKS RETAIL, or TEMP JOBs

we have enough tired and poor here, that aren't being taken care of.

you want the world to be a better place, you don't import 3rd world conditions into the United States...

you create a barrier between them and the United States and require that the osmotic financial and human rights equalize before the barrier is brought down...

we have lost blood, and our citizens are sick and have diminished financial capacity and diminished hope and future....

fix that first.

require that other countries meet or beat standards that we held in the 70's as far as labor laws and benefits are concerned and bring those same laws back into the United States

closing the border to goods that were made where labors laws are nonexistent, even if the companies that are using those peasants are "american owned,"

all arguments CONTRA wise are not understanding the situation for what it is:
a capitulation of responsibility for American citizens rights and benefits, when WE made this country and it's corporations successful...

"your tired and poor"

makes sense when we are in an expansionist mode, and every person is needed...

WE ARE NOT IN EXPANSIONIST MODE, unless you are rich and harvesting the middle class monies and then the upper middle class and then the upper class...leaving only the landed, elitist...INHERITED RICH..

like TED KENNEDY...

we are creating tired and poor, working 60 hours with no benefits and working for Temp labor organizations that can fire, lay-off, or not find jobs for those that don't meet their standards of employment...like taking a sick day...


you don't do that on temp jobs...or at least you only do it once.


in Europe they get 5 weeks vacation, on a temp job, _you don't miss work_
you figure it out college kids.

you're making it possible for the muckrakers to have something to write about again, OLIVER TWIST becomes a reality again, and already is for most marginalized citizens.....

cheers to the American affluent, who care less for you than they do for their dogs, because they don't know you.
.

bush is pushing it because he can get 17,000 in_country CONTRAS into _his_ forces w/o background checks...

AMNESTY W/O BACKGROUND CHECKS IS MAJOR...

STUPIDITY...

want to fix _ILLEGAL_ IMMIGRATION?

______________ARREST THE EMPLOYERS OF ILLEGALS_______________

today, the _Illegals_ will be gone by the weekend....

it's all about the MONEY FOR THEM TOO!

.

Posted by: _ILLEGALS_ | June 24, 2007 5:39 PM

ey everybody shut your m****h go to work move your **s to the fields pick up fruits for a few bucks and then we talk who need this people see you block minds.

Posted by: roger | June 24, 2007 5:40 PM

Just imaging , without the immigrants, if prices go up and the ordinary people can not afford a lot of things again, check out those that can afford to eat at restaurants even if the cost of one meal is $500 , well they are all over, the talk show host are paid millions of dollars a year so definitely they wouldn't be affected, the tv presenters and the politicians will all be okay..

Who will this really affect, me and you, that explains why they don't care about the effect of their actions, for all they care immigrants are problems and must leave the country what they are not telling you is what happens after that. Who in the world will buy American goods (be it in America or outside of America) if they are too expensive/

This situation call for rational thinking not fear mongering.

To my fellow poor citizens, I say beware of the Radio talk show or the television presenter, they are benefitting from this whole mess, and the worst is if they have their way, they wouldn't lose as much as you and I. Are they really benefitting you asked, I say yes in millions of ways they are, during this kind of debate, their ratings go up, that bring in more advertising dollar for their corporations and they can now ask for more money for themselves, I am sure Lou Dobbs is not getting paid what he was being paid 10 year ago. So also are all the radion talk show hosts.

Beware of the man who pretended to be fighting for you while he is benefitting from it , it is a dangerous situation.

Posted by: NoNonsense | June 24, 2007 5:40 PM

This is real simple. Bruce Karatz, of KB home, made 150 million dollars in salary and bonuses in 2006. When illegals are deported, employers are imprisoned for hiring illegals, social programs (medical, education, food stamps, etc.) and citizenship is denied to those born of illegals, the illegal immigration problem goes away, the Bruce Karatz' of the world have to pay AMERICANS a decent wage, and corporate profits will shrink to an unadulterated level. No, the cost of goods will not skyrocket. The Karatz' of the world will only make 10 million in salary and bonuses.
Let me put it another way, you morons. If it costs you an extra $3-30 thousand a year in fees and taxes to pay for the burden on our nations schools, hospitals, courts, etc. are you saving anything by 'only' spending $1.00 for a head of lettuce?
You are supporting a system that has the middle class paying for corporate profits.
I'm sorry, do I need to present this in Spanish, as well?

Posted by: Mark E. | June 24, 2007 5:43 PM

This is real simple. Bruce Karatz, of KB home, made 150 million dollars in salary and bonuses in 2006. When illegals are deported, employers are imprisoned for hiring illegals, social programs (medical, education, food stamps, etc.) and citizenship is denied to those born of illegals, the illegal immigration problem goes away, the Bruce Karatz' of the world have to pay AMERICANS a decent wage, and corporate profits will shrink to an unadulterated level. No, the cost of goods will not skyrocket. The Karatz' of the world will only make 10 million in salary and bonuses.
Let me put it another way, you morons. If it costs you an extra $3-30 thousand a year in fees and taxes to pay for the burden on our nations schools, hospitals, courts, etc. are you saving anything by 'only' spending $1.00 for a head of lettuce?
You are supporting a system that has the middle class paying for corporate profits.
I'm sorry, do I need to present this in Spanish, as well?

Posted by: Mark E. | June 24, 2007 5:43 PM

I invite those who are intellectually curious to inquire about the contibutions of immigrants to our great society. Too often, people simply believe that the names of successful people they hear are native and failed to realize that they are those immigrants they are now fighting to prevent an opportunity to remain in this country.

Did you know that :
1. Albert EINSTEIN was born in Germany.
2.Andrew Carnegie left Scotland as a child. ( Like the Steel Company and Carnegie Hall)
And more recently:
3.Sergey BRIN co-founder of GOOGLE was born in Russia
4. Jerry YANG co-founder of Yahoo was born in Taiwan.
5. Barij Benacerrof, born in Venezuela, Nobel Prize in Medicine (Genetics)
6. Ciro Rodriguez, Born in Mexico, Member of Congress since 1997 to Present
7. Carlos Gutierez, born in CUBA, Past Chairman KELLOG (Cereal-Foods)- Curretnly serving in PResident Bush cabinet as Commerce Secretary.
8. Charlie Bell. Australia, CEO McDonald
9. Alain Belda, Born in Brazil, Chairman of ALCOA, 21.5 Billion in Revenue in 1983
10. Ramani AYER, Born in India, Chairman - Hartford Insurance Co. - 18.7 billion in revenue for 2003.
It will become ridiculous as I could go on to bore you to death.
Do you want these people to go someone else because they are eager to contribute and if we do not take them, our competitors will.
If you are intellectually honest and want to carry a sincere and honest discussion, inform yourself before repeating what many with hidden agenta want you to believe. Ask for facts on both sides of the debate.
Love and compassion for those who are eager to contribute. This is an american tradition.

Posted by: Carlo Jean-Joseph | June 24, 2007 5:45 PM

Michael1945-LOL!!

Please remove your Cranium from your rectum! The noxious vapors and lack of Oxygen have adversly affected your judgement!

I'll agree, that cheap shots at the shame of Masseschusetts(SP?-It's Mass. and so who really cares?)is a little over the top, and like shooting fish in a barrel.

However, to compare the Immigration of our Forefathers to a hostile and undeveloped land to an invasion of a fully developed and prosperous land is a bad joke! Our forefathers came from London and Paris to Dogpatch!

Immigrating from Mexico to the US is like an 1800's American Immigrating to London!

Not for opportunity, but for freebies and an easy time!

Our Forefathers-and many of us if the Mexicans did not prevent it- would turn a country like Mexico into a better than the US sort of Place! Mexico improves with every single below average resident of theirs they deport and we go down!

Posted by: RAT-The | June 24, 2007 5:46 PM

we need support this fix i support this country i am citizen.we need immigration reform we need this people here no matter what you think GOD BLESS AMERICA.

Posted by: glenn oliver | June 24, 2007 5:51 PM

I am a military veteran and also a person who believes in fairness. The issue I have with the Immigration Issue of the Bill is two part!

1)We should not need a bill to protect our borders. It should have been done after 9/11 as a part of an agressive stance against any and all forces or agressors of the United States.

2)Please, you must think with your head on the issues and not with childish emotions. I have been to many countries and not one had open borders. Also, any illegal person there would not demand the same rights as a legal person.

3)Mexicans - I have nothing against them personally. Our immigration system is the issue not the people per say. If you are from Cuba and touch Florida soil your are free to stay. If your from Haiti and touch Florida soil you are departed. See this issue. Our laws and rules must apply to all people.

4)Culture - (Language) When I went to Korea, Japan, Republic of Panama, etc. I had to learn their language, customs, and respect their laws. Why must less be expected of any foreign person entering the United States.

Just a simple, fair and balenced system.

Posted by: Thoughts.... | June 24, 2007 5:56 PM

Just Say NO! To the corporate labor reform ... errr I mean immigration reform.

What in the world are these politicians going to tell the mroe than 150,000 soldiers that are fighting overseas? Will they say, 'Sorry, we downsized the middle-class pool of jobs while you were away to get re-elected'?

Filthy dogs, all of them on the Hill.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 24, 2007 5:56 PM

Carlo Jean-Joseph-Very,very good points and my point also! We are a melting Pot!

We got great by throwing the Limes, Potatoes, Vodka, Sour Kraut, Rice, Lentils, Sushi, hell, even Snails, in altogether and prospered!

The Flood of interrelated, un-invited, un-planned for people of one particullar group that failed to get any representatives in your list, is stopping the ability of any others but them to get in! Especially with Familia Re-unification being an immigration process priority!

To put it simply-We have allowed too many Beans to jump in the Pot, and now they are swelling up and forcing the other tastier ingredients out!

No mas frijoles por favor! I want Curry!-or Rice, or Lentils anything but Beans!!!

Posted by: RAT-The | June 24, 2007 5:58 PM

As if the CEOs and politicians don't have enough.

They are going to take another huge bite out of the middle class people.

Posted by: the.man_in_black | June 24, 2007 5:59 PM

AMNESTY YES FOR ALL GOOD WORKERS

Posted by: MANNY | June 24, 2007 6:00 PM

The citizens of the United States of America deserve a better government that looks out for the best interest of all of those that they govern.

Please protect our jobs from the corporate machine that is crushing the hearts, minds, and finances of the people.

Posted by: Stop-the-Neo-Consense | June 24, 2007 6:05 PM

AMNESTY YES FOR ALL GOOD WORKERS

Posted by: MANNY | June 24, 2007 6:06 PM

E-MAIL YOU SENATOR AND TELL THEM 'NOOOOOOOO IMMIGRATION REFORM, PROTECT OUR JOBS'

Posted by: Anonymous | June 24, 2007 6:07 PM

I think Americans have been politically correct for long enough.

I am an American Citizen. I am not a racist. I believe in upholding the laws of our land. I also believe in upholding the laws of other foreign countries if I were to visit or want to be considered legal in their countries.

I do not believe in having a second class slave laborer. They ARE taking away jobs that TRUE American Citizens WOULD do if the law breaking employers would hire LEGAL CITIZENS at the LEGAL WAGE proposed. I cannot afford to live on $2.00 an hour or whatever the going rate is these days for slaves.

Coincidentally, the $4.4 billion dollars promised to secure our borders IF this immigration reform bill is passed - is LUDICROUS! This money has ALREADY been allotted to secure our borders... but our President is withholding it and placing all Americans in danger so he can pass this corrupt legislation! (Impeach Bush.)

I agree with Thoughts...(a few posts up)
" 1)We should not need a bill to protect our borders. It should have been done after 9/11 as a part of an aggressive stance against any and all forces or aggressors of the United States. "

America...speak up now or forever hold your peace.

Posted by: LMC | June 24, 2007 6:10 PM

PROTECT OUR ECONOMY...


WHAT HAPPENED THE LAST TIME A BUSH PASSED IMMIGRATION REFORM.

A: We experienced one of the most disasterous blows to the US economy since the Great Depression.

FACT ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Posted by: Anonymous | June 24, 2007 6:10 PM

i am sorry but you people have issues spending your time saying SEND THEM HOME most people come here for a better life simple award those who have no crime records with citizenship and what is it with illegal alien they do not have three eyes or antenna's the color may be the same but the body parts are and just because they are more Mexicans doesn't mean they are the only ones here theres polish i am not Mexican but don't you think if the united sates wanted to stop them from entering they would have well first of all immigrants pay taxes i know about 50 of them who are legal but when they weren't they still payed so instead of you bashing them try living in their shoes to those of you helping the immigrants may the lord god continue to bless you.
by the way this only took me 5 minutes

Posted by: noyb | June 24, 2007 6:14 PM

Noyb - Breaking the law is simple...if you do it, you should be punished. If I stole from a store, I would be thrown in jail. If I robbed a bank, I would be thrown in jail. If I killed someone, I would be thrown in jail. By entering our country illegally, these people have violated the law. It really is a simple logic. You don't reward, you punish. So why award illegals just because they are searching for a better life. They still broke the law. Bottom line.

And by the way, every true American citizen wants a better life and to be able to provide for their families. Does this mean they should be punished?

Lisa

Posted by: Lisa | June 24, 2007 6:21 PM

Since we have done such a wonderful job stopping the flow of illegal drugs into this country I expect about the same results for stopping the flow of illegals. If you don't study history you repeat the same mistakes over and over. A wall has never stopped anyone determined to cross it. Look back in history to any wall that was ever built. Did it really work. Tell me how a wall will ever stop an airplane. Maybe we should help Mexico so their people would not want to leave their country because we really can't stop the from coming to ours. We don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. Not all aliens are unproductive or hold low paying job or are on welfare. If they break our laws sending back to Mexico would seem like a good idea but they will just be back in a few days. The truth is we had better find a way to live with this because after years and years and billions of dollars spent we really haven't slowed down the flow.

Posted by: egk | June 24, 2007 6:22 PM

OUR WHITE POWER TALK. HERE WE GO. WE LOOK LIKE NAZIS WHERE IS HITLER. DO NOT BE FOOLS WE NEED THIS PEOPLE. COME ON AMERICA I DONT CRY FOR PAY TAXES I AM HAPPY PAYING FOR IRAQ WAR AND YOU CRY FOR NO AMNESTY I WANT AMNESTY FOR THIS PEOPLE FOR OUR TROOPS 35% ARE LATINO THEY HAVE FAMILY WITHOUT PAPERS TO WORK AND SO WHAT LATINO TROOPS SAVING YOUR LAZY ASS AND YOU WANT DEPORT THEM WHAT STUPID MIND YOU HAVE

Posted by: MARK | June 24, 2007 6:23 PM

Please review my last post... they provided some insight.

Now, that being said no solution I have seen will please everyone or is even fesible.

The United States is the melting pot of the world, however as long as you are legal this is not an issue.

I do understand wanting a better life, if you are illegal you have not right to demand freedoms that legal citizens have like due process, voting, etc.

Medicare and Social Security are already taxed, what do you think will happen if you just automatically added 12 million new people.

Emotions dont solve problems, only reasoning and logic.


Posted by: Thoughts.... | June 24, 2007 6:24 PM

I have an immediate solution to the immigration problem.

It's time for Americans to stop giving Business a free lunch and make them pay for the problem that Business has caused.

It is the job magnet created by business desire for cheap labor which caused this problem and has forced taxpayers to pay the associated education, health care, and skyrocketing cost of police and justice.

Mexico and other Latin governments have seen fit to create a class of 2nd grade educated persons, with a good hearts but with no ability to speak literate Spanish let alone English, riddled with disease and dental issues, a true social travesty, but not the responsibility of the USA.

I have educated friends in Mexico who tell me they are ashamed that their own goverment is deliberatly "flushing the poor in our North across the border into the USA". To make these people healthy and educated enough to contribute equally with US Citizens is a multi-Trillion dollar investment that Ted Kennedy is refusing to acknowledge.

Have you noticed all public services are being cut in your community? There's not enough tax dollars to pay for police, fire, justice, education and welfare health care.

This is the side-effect of business making greater profits, the stock market accelerating, while tax-payers are forced to foot the bill so that business can have a wave of record-breaking profits.

Business creates a slave-class of illegal immigrants and then lets the middle class pick up the bill for the social side effects. This is called an 'externality' in economics.

My "Grand Compromise" is short and sweet.

Business must pay Congressional-quality health insurance for ALL foreign workers and their familes, legal & illegal alike.

Business must also pay a 'property tax supplement' of $3 per manhour
for every hour worked by every foreign worker, which must be split equally between the foreign worker's local county board of education, community hospitals, and justice system. This will stop the 17% average health insurance inflation when national inflation is only 3%. It will also stop the near bankrupty of hospitals, schools, police departments and justice systems.

In addition, there must be NO wage discrimination between citizens and non-citizens. Business has to pay citizen wages to foreigers PLUS the taxes cited above.

Only in this way, will Business be forced to discover that it's a lot cheaper to hire citizens than foreigners. There is no need for massive immigration. When foreigners find employment prospects are better in a different country, they will move wherever they want.

There's no need for any other changes to the 1986 laws than these.

This plan is simple and it will solve all of the evils of the present exploitation of immigrants and remove the economic
externalities forced onto the backs of the taxpayers.

But what we really need is a President to enforce the laws on the books. New laws are worthless if a President reinterprets the law and enforces it the way he feels like, with total disregard for the will of the people.

I have no problem with citizens of any national origin. But our immigration quotas need to be made equal to the other developed economies in the world, not greater than all others combined.

I say that America needs to force Business to solve the problem which they created themselves. And this is possible with forced health insurance, social tax supplement, and enforcement of equal pay for equal work to all persons in the land.

Take away the profits in illegal immigration, and these damages will stop happening.

Posted by: FPW | June 24, 2007 6:27 PM

CONTACT YOUR SENATORS AND SAY:


Dear Senator,

Save the middle class jobs for the more than 150,000 soldiers serving our country overseas. Nay to 'Immigration Reform'.

http://www.senate.gov/

Posted by: Anonymous | June 24, 2007 6:29 PM

EGK - You say: " Maybe we should help Mexico so their people would not want to leave their country because we really can't stop the from coming to ours. "

FACT: It is not the Americans responsibility to help Mexico.

The Mexican government has done such an injustice to their own people. They should be fighting their own government instead of trying to force themselves into ours.

Posted by: Lisa | June 24, 2007 6:29 PM

As a legal immigrant to the USA and now a US citizen, I am disgusted with the state of illegal immigration.

The issue is so clear I am astounded that most people can't see it: big business and farmers (US Farmers are either socialist or huge corporations. Don't believe me? Check out Federal subsidies over the past 50 years. We the taxpayer are giving our money to farmers of all sizes.) They want cheap labor, no headaches from people who will stand up to crappy management and a chain around their neck. "Hey Jose' you don't like it, then you can either talk to an ICE officer or talk a long walk South."

The rhetoric around illegals doing jobs "Americans won't" is a huge lie. When the ICE swarmed Swift meat packing factories around the US about a year ago, Swift suddenly discovered that Black citizens in their town were more than happy to take those jobs. One problem, they didn't want those rotten smelly jobs (I worked in one in the Netherlands and they really stink!) for minimum wage. Swift had to raise the pay $2.00 an hour. And then they complained because the Blacks (and some Whites) began pointing out illegal safety practices.

If you really want the facts and no emotions, here is a free book in PDF form from Numbers USA. Charts and plenty of references, no emotion. If you have the bravery to face facts and not take a side for an emotional or racist reason, read the book. And then you will be convinced as I am, that America's Big Business and very rotten government has sold us all out as stupid patsies. You can download it here for free (1.3MB): http://www.numbersusa.com/PDFs/Re-Charting%20America%27s%20Future.pdf

Posted by: Guilden_NL | June 24, 2007 6:31 PM

Mark,

You went to far by stating that since we have a high percentage or hispanic troops we should do that or that. Ignorant is what I have to say to you, Sir.

Why, after one year of military service all non-citizens in the military are guaranteed citizenship. This was signed by President Bush. I dont care for him, but he did do that right.

Rules are there for a reason for the safety and security of its people. Law and Order are the actually teeth of the rules and the punishment for disobeying. That is what the troops fight for is the Laws, dreams and guiding principles of this Great country you Moron!

Posted by: Thoughts.... | June 24, 2007 6:34 PM

I AM CITIZEN I FIGHT IN IRAQ WAR I AM MARINE I SUPPORT THIS AMNESTY FOR THIS PEOPLE. WHAT YOU DO FOR THIS COUNTRY.I WILL BE BACK TO IRAQ WAR NEXT WEEK FOR SAVE THIS COUNTRY WITH MY BLOOD PLEASE THIS PEOPLE THEY NEED OUR HELP THANKS

Posted by: MIKE | June 24, 2007 6:35 PM

I AM CITIZEN I FIGHT IN IRAQ WAR I AM MARINE I SUPPORT THIS AMNESTY FOR THIS PEOPLE. WHAT YOU DO FOR THIS COUNTRY.I WILL BE BACK TO IRAQ WAR NEXT WEEK FOR SAVE THIS COUNTRY WITH MY BLOOD PLEASE THIS PEOPLE THEY NEED OUR HELP THANKS

Posted by: MIKE | June 24, 2007 6:36 PM

Well first of all i would like to say that if you actually thought about it gangs are formed by people not having a good education now if that education is offered to people memberships in gangs drop so if we do legalize people it will more than likely give them that chance and why not offer it to them they came here in the hopes of getting a better life than was offered to them in their countries. now i'm not saying let everyone in we should check their criminal background and deport those that are a threat to safety to the people in our country second of all people that say oh yeah jobs will open up just so you can think about it how would you people feel about being a janitor or work on an assembly line from personal experience i know latin people are diligent workers and do whatever they are asked i wish i could say that for the majority of white people and if we do give this amnesty these people that are illegal and on welfare for medical purposes will not have to worry about that because they will have a job that can provide insurance for them when they have a valid social security number and about being a drain on our economy latin people that i have seen work 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet now if taxes are taken out of that we will have millions of dollars more coming in to our country not to mention the fact that the cust of becoming legal will probably not be cheap including payments of back taxes so i say to all of you let The U.S.A offer to those that are in need what it has offered to all of us we can only grow better with the influx of people willing to work

Posted by: Ryan | June 24, 2007 6:39 PM

It looks like our Senators, Representatives and President all feel like breaking our laws is OK if they "don't make sense."

OK, I've been wanting to drive 165MPH on our four lane highways, so I am going to start. If pulled over by a state trooper, I will first say No hablo inglés, then demand my rights to break the law because I don't agree with them and I am a poor guy trying to get to a job on time so I can work hard and feed my family.

Think that will work? Me either.

We have racist Hispanics that would be screaming bloody murder if 12 million illegal Sudanese came here. We have government that is bought and paid for by The Man. Face it, the USA is just as screwed as Mexico.

There's one way out - vote every idiot out of office that supports this crap. Then make sure we don't let their replacements stay in office long enough to develop the needle in the arm of business' money.

Posted by: NASCAR Bob | June 24, 2007 6:44 PM

Carlo Jean Joseph ...

What is your point? That Einstein was an immigrant from Germany and therefore these illiterates from Mexico are somehow to be equated with Einstein?

Most illegal immigrants (from Mexico) are un-educated or criminal and will immediately become even more of a burden to the US taxpayer than they already are should this ridiculous bill be passed. Only a complete idiot like G W Bush could totally support this bill.

As for what we do? It's simple. Start enforcing the existing federal laws and instead of arresting the illegals start arresting their employers. As soon as a few farmers end up in jail, and illegals are no longer hired, you will see a mass migration back to that stinking disgrace of a country called Mexico.

Posted by: Wayney | June 24, 2007 6:46 PM

Ryan - This country was not formed by people who did what they were told. That is why we formed our democratic nation.

Your comments about latin people: "from personal experience i know latin people are diligent workers and do whatever they are asked i wish i could say that for the majority of white people"

Well...they seem to imply that you like to control people or perhaps you have a problem with white people.

Posted by: Lisa | June 24, 2007 6:51 PM

We are consevative Democrats.We have yet to meet a Democrat or Republican who is for this bill and plenty are talking about it here in Indiana of all places.We have two amnesty Senators in Bayh and Lugar.This bill would not poll 25 % approval in this state.Most of the congressional delegation is against it should it reach the House including our congressman Brad Ellsworth(D) who stated he will never vote for this sham if it reaches the House.It is a bad,unworkable and unenforceable bill.Yes it is a amnesty when people who have broken immigration laws become lawful in 24hrs!

The new ZOGBY poll of 8300 people a large sample has 56% disapproving of the bill and 65% say it's amnesty so the debate on whether it is amnesty is pretty much over.Illegals drive down wages for low wage earners and the working poor this is why the business community is pushing so hard for this bill.The Chain Migration restrictions in this bill do not start until 2016.

Does anyone believe a government that can't implement a pass port security system for around 3 million people will implement this massive piece of junk bill?

Posted by: Phillip | June 24, 2007 7:06 PM

First of all American is a representative Republic, not a representative Democracy. If any race has title at all, to the Southwest it would be "SPAIN". Not the radical "conquestas" in Mexico and further South. To me, I see this divide growing into another Civil war. The people are intentionally being ommited from all debates. The like of Czar Bush and thrall are not interested, by what the U.S. citizen want as they being rode by the giant corporate cartels. The politicans are losing their ratings in the polls. McCain is down to single digits, and Sarbanes is getting bombarded with negatives call. These brain dead clowns are not thinking through to the future. Read the Google news and Yahoo, many states are under water restrictions. Think by allowing 20 to 25 millions foreign national being allowed to stay, will halt the floods of impoverished waiting in wings? The attack on our obsolute flag, sovereignty and U.S. Constitution has just began. Bush doesn't want an America anymore, he wants a streamlined mess like the super state of Europe.

GOD HELP US:
Dont be brain-washed by the International globalists elites, decide your own fate and your families future?
http://www.outragedpatriots.com/

Posted by: Daves | June 24, 2007 7:19 PM

Slowly, slowly, we are coming back to the lands that belong to us.
A few hundred years ago European aliens, came to this lands, commited a huge genocide, killing almost all the native people and its culture, and appropriated the lands, but, we are peacefully coming back, and we'll be majority soon...
This is just happening...
Just take that historical perpective, it makes sense,
...and think who is the real alien here.

Posted by: Gabo | June 24, 2007 7:19 PM

Along with the botched up passport system that the government could not implement for true CITIZENS of this country, comes another great reminder of how the federal government works:

"MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- Six months to the day after Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi flew planes into the World Trade Center, the Immigration and Naturalization Service notified a Venice, Florida, flight school that the two men had been approved for student visas. "

A 9/11 Terrorist was approved for his student visa 6 months AFTER he killed so many Americans.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/03/12/inv.flight.school.visas/

SHAME ON OUR GOVERNMENT FOR TRYING TO SHOVE THIS TYPE OF CORRUPT LEGISLATION DOWN OUR THROATS.

Posted by: Lisa | June 24, 2007 7:22 PM

First of all American is a representative Republic, not a representative Democracy. If any race has title at all, to the Southwest it would be "SPAIN". Not the radical "conquestas" in Mexico and further South. To me, I see this divide growing into another Civil war. The people are intentionally being ommited from all debates. The like of Czar Bush and thrall are not interested, by what the U.S. citizen want as they being rode by the giant corporate cartels. The politicans are losing their ratings in the polls. McCain is down to single digits, and Sarbanes is getting bombarded with negatives call. These brain dead clowns are not thinking through to the future. Read the Google news and Yahoo, many states are under water restrictions. Think by allowing 20 to 25 millions foreign national being allowed to stay, will halt the floods of impoverished waiting in wings? The attack on our obsolute flag, sovereignty and U.S. Constitution has just began. Bush doesn't want an America anymore, he wants a streamlined mess like the super state of Europe.

GOD HELP US:
Dont be brain-washed by the International globalists elites, decide your own fate and your families future?
http://www.outragedpatriots.com/

Posted by: Daves | June 24, 2007 7:22 PM

First of all American is a representative Republic, not a representative Democracy. If any race has title at all, to the Southwest it would be "SPAIN". Not the radical "conquestas" in Mexico and further South. To me, I see this divide growing into another Civil war. The people are intentionally being ommited from all debates. The like of Czar Bush and thrall are not interested, by what the U.S. citizen want as they being rode by the giant corporate cartels. The politicans are losing their ratings in the polls. McCain is down to single digits, and Sarbanes is getting bombarded with negatives call. These brain dead clowns are not thinking through to the future. Read the Google news and Yahoo, many states are under water restrictions. Think by allowing 20 to 25 millions foreign national being allowed to stay, will halt the floods of impoverished waiting in wings? The attack on our obsolute flag, sovereignty and U.S. Constitution has just began. Bush doesn't want an America anymore, he wants a streamlined mess like the super state of Europe.

GOD HELP US:
Dont be brain-washed by the International globalists elites, decide your own fate and your families future?
http://www.outragedpatriots.com/

Posted by: Daves | June 24, 2007 7:22 PM

Look for the concept of Amnesty. THIS BILL IS NOT AMNESTY. DO NOT PROMOTE IGNORANCE!!!.

Posted by: CHRIS | June 24, 2007 7:28 PM

ultimately, what is being advocated is
peasants fighting OTHER peasants.....for the same piece of pie

homegrown peasants, vs _illegal_ PEASANTS

_IILEGALS_ are willing to take your land _without_ earning it by becoming citizens....going through the same process as your foreftathers....
.

instead, they want to butt in line...because they're Mexicans...and if you don't give them what they want, they'll take their flags and "go home," or start trouble...which is it?

who cares?

as the reich take advantage of both groups, and use them against each other...

GET WISE! you're being sold out by your elite rieche owners, dear slaves....

that's what you're not addressing, and to some extent I consider that elitist cowardice, by the MSM...

OUTSOURCING, has already moved most MIDDLE CLASS BLUE COLLAR jobs overseas, and our citizens ARE being treated like 3rd world citizens...

and the ones that are managing to maintain their tenuous hold on the middle class...

are being compared to wage earners in Pakistan, as_IF that were a FAIR COMPARISON...

autoworkers are told, give up your benefits, your vacations, your pensions or your jobs are going overseas...

look at this:
we just passed laws allowing unpaid overtime...
we just passed laws reducing benefits for social security and medicare, reduced foodstamps by $380 million
with the incursion of outsourcing was a surge in bankruptcies that we passed tougher laws to protect the corporations
but not the citizens.

we increased tax breaks for the richest 3 percent...which in effect would pretty much embrace the corporations...

who would allowing illegal immigrants to come in more easily help?

those that want to pay less money for labor,
the corporations.

who would catering to illegal immigrants hurt?
those who would have to share an increasingly smaller pie... CITIZENS...

americans peasants, a section that has been expanding rapidly over the last 20 years as
blue collar jobs with benefits move overseas...

and AMERICA WORKS RETAIL, or TEMP JOBs

we have enough tired and poor here, that aren't being taken care of.

you want the world to be a better place, you don't import 3rd world conditions into the United States...

you create a barrier between them and the United States and require that the osmotic financial and human rights equalize before the barrier is brought down...

we have lost blood, and our citizens are sick and have diminished financial capacity and diminished hope and future....

fix that first.

require that other countries meet or beat standards that we held in the 70's as far as labor laws and benefits are concerned and bring those same laws back into the United States

closing the border to goods that were made where labors laws are nonexistent, even if the companies that are using those peasants are "american owned,"

all arguments CONTRA wise are not understanding the situation for what it is:
a capitulation of responsibility for American citizens rights and benefits, when WE made this country and it's corporations successful...

"your tired and poor"

makes sense when we are in an expansionist mode, and every person is needed...

WE ARE NOT IN EXPANSIONIST MODE, unless you are rich and harvesting the middle class monies and then the upper middle class and then the upper class...leaving only the landed, elitist...INHERITED RICH..

like TED KENNEDY...

we are creating tired and poor, working 60 hours with no benefits and working for Temp labor organizations that can fire, lay-off, or not find jobs for those that don't meet their standards of employment...like taking a sick day...


you don't do that on temp jobs...or at least you only do it once.


in Europe they get 5 weeks vacation, on a temp job, _you don't miss work_
you figure it out college kids.

you're making it possible for the muckrakers to have something to write about again, OLIVER TWIST becomes a reality again, and already is for most marginalized citizens.....

cheers to the American affluent, who care less for you than they do for their dogs, because they don't know you.
.

bush is pushing it because he can get 17,000 in_country CONTRAS into _his_ forces w/o background checks...

AMNESTY W/O BACKGROUND CHECKS IS MAJOR...

STUPIDITY...

want to fix _ILLEGAL_ IMMIGRATION?
______ARREST THE EMPLOYERS OF ILLEGALS____)

TODAY,

the _Illegals_ will be gone by the weekend....they are ONLY HERE FOR DA MONEY!

it's all about the MONEY FOR THEM TOO!

.

Posted by: __ILLLEGALS!!!_______ | June 24, 2007 7:30 PM

the illegals
_don't care_

how they affect the citizens.

they _are_ playing the pity card.

_THEY_ are _unwilling_ to make _their_
country a better place to live...

_THEY_ are willing to contribute to the
degradation
of services available to the citizens here.

that is only part of the problem.

The main problem is that the affluents, primarily an international group,
are selling their citizen out.

And you _the media_ are assisting that, by reporting on stories as-if
it were personal, when it's very impersonal...

and you're trying to make it appear as_if it were _racist_
.
YOU ARE THE RACE BAITORS...


AND LIARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: HEY!!! RACISTS.... | June 24, 2007 7:35 PM

No, Mark E. you did a lousy job in English...please spare us an attempt in Spanish!

Lisa,you advocate punishing illegal immigrants for breaking the law. The people that really should be punished are those that hire them. They also are "criminals", but of a worse kind because, for the most part, they are exploiters.

rjvm

Posted by: rjvm | June 24, 2007 7:36 PM

Well first of all Lisa when you work in a warehouse and have to make a certain quota during that day you would not want a white person on your line you know why because after the first hour white people would decide i don't need to do this and just leave now if a latin person was there even if they had just got off work on another job they would be ready to go and start working without complaint and do a better job than anyone else there. and second of all i don't have a problem with white people i just have a problem with lazy people which generally tend to be the lower class white people that although they have the opportunity to better there lives do not do anything and whine that they need to be taken care of by the government

Posted by: Ryan | June 24, 2007 7:41 PM



to turn the current, OCCUPATION, marginalization of humanity, legalization of poverty, and inhumanity around

if the people _knew_ that all that they needed to turn their lives around was to understand THIS:

YOU HAVE A CHOICE, ACT ON IT....

IF
ORDINARY BLUE COLLAR (former middle class) now odd jobbing, RETAIL, or temp workers at two jobs knew that they could vote themselves a new life....

if they could just _frame_ what they needed to say...what was keeping them down,

if they could just GRASP THAT WHAT THEY NEEDED to turn their lives around was to understand that:

they have had their lives sacrificed for CORPORATE AND ELITIST INTERESTS THAT ARE NOT PAYING THEM A FAIR SALARY, OR GAUARNTEEING THEM THE FUTURE THAT


THEY HAVE WORKED FOR


TO _MAKE_ _T_H_I_S_ COUNTRY GREAT!!!!!!!!!!

IF THESE PEASANTS/CITIZENS COULD JUST comprehend two things, these facts would change their lives back to the being well-off and having healthcare, benefits and a good life for all citizens...

I think that they can be taught well enough to vote on it...

and destroy this ugliness permanently.

teach them these two things:

1. corporations are not acting in the best interests of citizens that they are claiming as their country of origin, and need to have their _favors_ rescinded...

a. outsourcing needs to be regulated, and stopped.

b. companies that move their physical
operations overseas that call
themselves American aren't, and should get
treated as foreign competitors...

c. we need to bring back manufacturing
jobs to the United States, and
reestablish our blue-collar/trade
based, middle-class...so that
opportunity exists for everyone that
is a citizen. There used to be blue collar
jobs that were a ticket out of the ghetto class.

2. hiring of "illegals" moves money out of the country, displaces American workers in the service sector and blue collar sector.

Further:
Our marginalized need to be reclaimed, brought back into a productive society, we need to intervene...not BRING IN A BUNCH OF _ILLEGALS_ THAT MEAN THAT THIS GROUP FESTERS ON THE EDGE OF SOCIETY...CONTANTLY ADDING POISON TO THE SYSTEM....instead of being solved, invited in.

a productive society is one that exists to include _A_L_L_ OF the citizens of the entire spectrum of wealth, not just the upper .5% and their INTERNATIONAL FRIENDS...

we don't need to go back to the 19th century mindset that has a wealthy class and a serf or peasant class...

which is WHERE THIS BILL IS TAKING YOU...

this is a further erosion of the middle class....


H1-B VISA INCREASE WHEN WE HAVE OUT OF WORK ENGINEERS??????

F*** MICROSOFT....they shouldn't have fired all of those CONTRACT EMPLOYEES THAT REACHED FIVE YEARS OF EMPLOYMENT SO AS TO AVOID HAVING TO HIRE THEM AND PAY BENEFITS....


CORPORATIONS NEED TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE TO THE CITIZENS OR


MOVE OUT...

AMERICA DOES NOT NEED YOU, WE _ARE_ THE BIGGEST MARKET...

YOU DON'T WANT TO SELL HERE???

SEE YAH, F*** OFF!

.

.

Posted by: HELLO! AMERICA....goodbye elite interest groups... | June 24, 2007 7:50 PM

the illegals
_don't care_

how they affect the citizens.

they _are_ playing the pity card.

_THEY_ are _unwilling_ to make _their_
country a better place to live...

_THEY_ are willing to contribute to the
degradation
of services available to the citizens here.

that is only part of the problem.

The main problem is that the affluents, primarily an international group,
are selling their citizen out.

And you _PLAYING THE RACE CARD_ are assisting that, by pretending it is personal, when it's very impersonal...

you just want to hire the cheapest labor, regardless of what it does to this country and you are trying to play the race card, you are race baiting

ryan et al...you are scum

you're trying to make it appear as_if it were _racist_
.
YOU ARE THE RACE BAITORS...


AND LIARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DEPRESSING WAGES HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE...

grow up and get a job.

.

Posted by: HEY RASCISTS!!!!! | June 24, 2007 7:55 PM

i laugh at all ignorants who are against illegals.who says we dont pay taxes,as long as you are getting paid by check and your employer gave you a w-2 form then they took taxes out of every weekly check.as far as you guys say you guys pay for our education,health,and other things out of your tax dollars.thats hillarious,you guys are stupid and ignorant.adios amigos

Posted by: jar | June 24, 2007 7:59 PM

Several points have been expressed that need addressing!

First, the aspect of Job Outsourcing. While not in the best interests of someone here who could do the job, it does enable a Company based here to succeed and it does keep the worker's family out of our crowded schools and hospitals! To import cheaper labor brings huge costs to the communities and the employers will import workers, if they can't export jobs!

Second, they want to come here and work. OK, I'll give half of them credit for wanting to try to get ahead and not be welfare cheating freeloaders! Only problem is, it is MY job they are after, and MY opportunities they are trying to grab!
No crello yo mi amigos!

Third, we are not talking about newcomers who have left their old lives behind! Mexico offers all of it's citizens whether born in the US or Mexico, DUAL Nationality!

What we are allowing in is Mexican Citizens with FULL rights in this Country!-Claiming to be Americans while yelling La-Raza and Aztlan-or whatever the fictional creation of their thieving minds call it!

Fourth, 10 years ago we had 10 Million fewer illegals! If half have gotten Jobs under the Table, then Half of the Jobs created during that time are now Stolen from our Tax Base and American workers!-Talk about outsourcing!

Fifth, has not been addressed-the Future!
The entry level construction Jobs being stolen are almost all going to Hispanics! Do we really want all the future Contractors in this country to be Hispanic?
Some people go to College to learn a trade, some Invade a Country, steal a chance to learn Masonry and work on the sly while getting subsidies to put their Children through school to then compete for the even better Jobs knowing full well any Hispanic Employer will reverse discriminate them into any jobs they have, while the Estupido gringos will still not help their own and also hire Hispanics(To feel PC!)

Sixth-The entire region South of our border is seething with Socialism and the battle of the Crib has turned into La Invasoria!
They want to flood us and steal our Sovereignty! Look all across the southwest already!

I have grown up during the Cold War, this is the occupation War! If we just keep allowing them to flood into our communities and take over the Vote, they will take away our country County by County, city by city, state by State!
No Shots fired!-they have gotten smarter than that!

Posted by: RAT-The | June 24, 2007 8:00 PM

CALL YOUR SENATORS AND SUPPORT THE IMMIGRATION BILL!!!do not let the minority run and ruin this country, they are few but look like thousands.

Posted by: DELIA | June 24, 2007 8:05 PM

RJVM - Yes. You are absolutely correct. Employers should be punished, at the same as the illegals should be. Our corporate greed system is not one that I support. If I did, I would be for this amnesty bill so I could hire cheap labor. (I am a business owner.)

Ryan - You definitely have a few problems.

One - You don't understand that if this type of Amnesty bill passes, you will have the same type of person on your line, whether they be white or brown or black or yellow. Any time you give workers rights, they will not tolerate conditions that underpay and are not reasonable.

You get what you want from them right now because you stand over them like a tyrant making sure they meet YOUR quotas so you can receive YOUR bonuses. Once they have rights, they might talk back. So just be prepared.

TWO - you do have a racist attitude towards whites. If I made that type of comment about any other colored person, I would be labeled a racist.

Posted by: Lisa | June 24, 2007 8:06 PM

Now, why does an Illegal Worker appeal to an employer?
No Employee Taxes or Payroll! Find workers at your Tax Payer Paid for Day Labor Assembly, Work them till one breaks, and haul him off to the nearest emergency room! No worker's Comp insurance needed!

Fire them, and never have to worry about un-employment!

Folks, we need to come down on small sub-contractors and Sanctuary Cities that facilitate this criminal behavior like Flies on Ahmadinejad!

Posted by: RAT-The | June 24, 2007 8:06 PM

FAIRNESS DOCTRINE???? That's what Feinstein is pushing?? Earth to Diane Feinstein: the free market determines what gets listened to. If people wanted to listen to Air America, they would. You just can't shove a fairness doctrine down our gullets or make a lisening audience listen to what Diane Feinstein wants them to hear - even Hugo Chavez would reject that. Its amazing to me how close folks like Feinstein and Gore (another supporter of the Fairness Doctrine) come to pure fascism. And it's scary.

Posted by: Bill | June 24, 2007 8:09 PM

FAIRNESS DOCTRINE???? That's what Feinstein is pushing?? Earth to Diane Feinstein: the free market determines what gets listened to. If people wanted to listen to Air America, they would. You just can't shove a fairness doctrine down our gullets or make a lisening audience listen to what Diane Feinstein wants them to hear - even Hugo Chavez would reject that. Its amazing to me how close folks like Feinstein and Gore (another supporter of the Fairness Doctrine) come to pure fascism. And it's scary.

Posted by: Bill | June 24, 2007 8:09 PM

Well Lisa you seem to misinterpret racism with the truth you see i have experienced that and i know it is the truth second it is not the fact that they have terrible conditions they got paid minimum wage for doing it. it is called a work ethic which i'm sorry to say many people do not have in this day and age third maybe you should just keep your mouth shut if you do not know what you are talking about we did not receive any bonuses there and we were not tyrants we simply asked them to do the job they applied for which was put a camera in a box doesn't sound too hard does it

Posted by: Ryan | June 24, 2007 8:20 PM

Nation newspapers have given up any pretense of reporting unbiased, objective, factual news. Instead they engage in shading every news article with their own bias & are no more then propaganda sheets. I would love to see this Paper and our President or Senate for once instead of SOB stories about the poor Illegal Aliens etc. Address the total ramifications of this Amnesty! On our Population, Water, Land use, Energy requirements, Environment, Standard of living, Crime, Schools & Education, Welfare, Culture, Taxes etc. that is the type of reporting that inform and let citizens make informed decisions & should be the first requirement of a serious newspaper, or Politicians before they pass Laws that will have a lasting and profound impact on this Nation! Instead our Senators & the Major newspapers engage in BS that is like inquiring minds want to know!
• The Proposed Bill Is Based on a Fantasy and Could Never Be Effectively Implemented:

It is outrageous when the federal government is so incompetent it has to suspend passport requirements for Mexico and Canada while at the same time suggesting it will be able to process a "Z" visa for 12 million-plus illegal immigrants in one day. Tell your senator that only a Washington power structure totally out of touch with reality could propose that.
• The Attempt to Blackmail the American People by Threatening to Refuse to Enforce the Law Without a New Bill Is Disgraceful, Illegal and should be a impeachment offense:

A number of powerful figures in the Bush Administration and in the Senate have been saying that if we do not agree to pass this destructive bill, they will never enforce the law. Tell your senator that this is an extraordinary effort to blackmail the American people by having officials state that they will fail to perform their sworn duty, and we won't stand for it.
• Homeland Security Michael Chertoff said that we had to "bow to the reality" of millions of people being here illegally, Americans Do Not Change Our Values to Fit Government Failures:

Carter kept trying to convince us to accept malaise as the best we could do and to lower our expectations. Reagan told us we had every right to dream great dreams because we were Americans. Tell your senator that Secretary Chertoff needs to get off the Carter failure team and join the Reagan success team. That goes for everyone else in Washington who is trying to tell us we have no choice except to "bow to" illegality.
• Why Should Any American Believe That This Government Will Keep Its Word and Do Better This Time?

We now hear from the President that we have failed to control the border and failed to enforce the law on employers, and therefore, we need a new law to replace the law we have been failing to enforce. But we have been here before. The Simpson-Mazzoli immigration law passed 20 years ago promised the same things.

And this raises another question: Who has been running the government for the last six years? Why do we think anything will change and that the law will now suddenly be enforced? Over the last six years, the three recently arrested New Jersey terrorists who had been here illegally for 23 years had a total of 75 charges by the local police, and yet not once was our immigration enforcement infrastructure able to identify that they were here illegally. And now we are told that with the new comprehensive immigration bill, we will start to enforce the law against those have come here illegally after Jan. 1, 2007.

But ask this simple question: Under the proposed law, will local, state and federal officials really try to distinguish between those who came to the U.S. illegally prior to Jan. 1, 2007 (eligible under the proposed law for amnesty), and those who have arrived here illegally -- or those who overstay their visas -- after Jan. 1, 2007 (not eligible for the proposed amnesty)? The case of the 75 prior interactions with police of the Fort Dix terrorists demonstrates that we currently are incapable of identifying people here illegally, even if their names are in the judicial system. If 12 to 20 million are amnestied, who is seriously going to try and distinguish between the old illegal and the new illegal?

Another sign that enforcement promises may be as empty today as they turned out to be 20 years ago is that Arizona Democratic Gov. Janet Napolitano just reported that the administration's budget cuts National Guard work at the border, even though the program is hopelessly behind in meeting its goals.

Tell your senator that this is a good time to remember the Reagan rule of "trust but verify." Show us the controlled border, show us the law enforced on American employers, show us the shift back to English as the official language of government and show us the end of sanctuary cities that refuse to identify those here illegally (by the way the Senate bill actually codifies the right of cities and counties to give sanctuary to illegal terrorists), then we will begin to think about a new bill.

This Is a Fight for America's Future: Your senator needs to understand that this is the key fight over America's future and returning to a law-abiding, effectively enforced, serious government worthy of the American people. Let them know they can be with the vast majority of Americans and kill the bill or they can side with the special interests and try to ram through this extraordinarily destructive bill. Either way, tell them you will remember them and how they vote.
The President and some other Politicians Attempted Black Mail of American Citizens is Disgraceful, Unlawful, Dishonorable, & should result in Impeachment for the President and recall for the other Politicians!
Didn't you Oath of Office include protecting American Citizens from violence? How about honoring your Oath of Office and start protecting Americans instead of whining about the poor Illegal Aliens Mr. President!
Bush why don't you take your good buddy Kennedy, Reid, McCain etc. & go incognito, and start visiting the Barrios at night Give your Illegal Amigos a chance to really help this Nation!

Posted by: bl | June 24, 2007 8:24 PM

The American Dream--Now Obsolete?
Years ago, immigrants came to this country to begin a new and better life. They believed in the American Dream: the idea that through hard work, courage and determination anyone could achieve prosperity. This and other work-ethic values were passed on to successive generations.
The American Dream did not immediately pan out for most immigrants, but their diligence and willingness to sacrifice for their families became an investment that yielded dividends in following generations. Life became much easier for their sons and daughters, grandchildren and great-grandchildren, who (because of their parents) were able to earn college degrees and pursue successful professions--engineering, finance, medicine, law, etc. It was once common for every new generation to aspire to live better than its parents did.
Becoming an American meant learning another language; learning and obeying the laws and customs of the land; embracing the U.S. over native countries and siding with America in war, including volunteering for military combat. Many believed that fighting for one's country was a sure way to prove that his heart, soul and future were vested in it.
But today, the American Dream has radically changed--and some would argue shattered.
Many immigrants come to the U.S. to find a better life, while others come strictly for employment, sending their wages back home to their families in the native lands.
Foreigners once came to America to become Americans, to be "Americanized." They instilled this desire in their children as they assimilated into society. Their culture fused into the greater American culture, which became the Great Melting Pot.
And that, many argue, is precisely why so many who come to the U.S. no longer desire to assimilate. They fear losing their national culture and traditions, their identity. And so they cling to their languages and customs, even to the point of expecting--even insisting--that street signs and driver's tests and government forms be given in their native language. Speaking, reading and writing in English--once considered necessary to fulfilling the American Dream--is now viewed as obsolete, intrusive, even an infringement upon one's "right" to live however he or she may choose.
The United States is a nation that values the rights of the individual. One can freely speak against the policies of the president--even spew verbal attacks on his character--without fear of being arrested, imprisoned, tortured, executed or made to "disappear" without a trace.
Ironically, those same "rights" are being used to tear down, rip apart and demolish confidence in the American system of governance. Respect for law, order and authority is at an all-time low. A cultural war of opposing ideologies is being waged, polarizing government and dividing the nation.
How long can America survive?

Posted by: bl | June 24, 2007 8:28 PM

Tomorrow I have to go to a tire store and purchase four new tires for my car. If I decide not to give the clerk any money for them and walk out without paying, can I just declare "amnesty" for myself and make everyone feel better about it? I think I'll do that with the IRS too. Hey, I kind of like this amnesty idea that the Democrats are so crazy about - it sure might come in handy!! Basically, if 12 million of us don't decide to pay, maybe Michael Chertoff will just declare the situation hopeless, and grant us all amnesty. By the way, I love how the Post takes the liberty of telling us that the "new, improved" amnesty bill will include "tougher border enforcement". Really? - what are they going to do - take the 4.4 billion dollars and purchase toy squirt guns for the border agents? The American public will believe these clowns are serious about a fence when we see it built - don't hold your breath, folks. It'll never by built.

Posted by: Muskrat | June 24, 2007 8:42 PM

Tomorrow I have to go to a tire store and purchase four new tires for my car. If I decide not to give the clerk any money for them and walk out without paying, can I just declare "amnesty" for myself and make everyone feel better about it? I think I'll do that with the IRS too. Hey, I kind of like this amnesty idea that the Democrats are so crazy about - it sure might come in handy!! Basically, if 12 million of us don't decide to pay, maybe Michael Chertoff will just declare the situation hopeless, and grant us all amnesty. By the way, I love how the Post takes the liberty of telling us that the "new, improved" amnesty bill will include "tougher border enforcement". Really? - what are they going to do - take the 4.4 billion dollars and purchase toy squirt guns for the border agents? The American public will believe these clowns are serious about a fence when we see it built - don't hold your breath, folks. It'll never by built.

Posted by: Muskrat | June 24, 2007 8:42 PM

Ryan...is that how you deal with your employees when they don't agree with you? You tell them to shut their mouths?

And for your information, white people do have good work ethics. Maybe it's you that they don't like and that's why they leave. What you're saying is ridiculous...that the only race in your factory that has good work ethics are Latins. Good luck with your white employees...that is if you don't scare them away.

P.S. - Bonuses are always figured into salaries of management if their quotas are met. So if you're not getting any, then you're getting screwed by the corporation too.

Posted by: Lisa | June 24, 2007 8:44 PM

Term limits.

The Representatives and Senators that supposedly represent Americans are nothing but Corporate shills. Democratic or Republican party, it doesn't matter.

The only way to fix our problem is to set term limits for ALL Representatives and Senators. We have them today for Presidents, why not for Reps and Senators?

I propose 2 four year Rep terms, the current two year terms are too short, all they do is constantly run for reelection.

1 8 year term for Senators.

You can serve the two Rep terms, then the one Senatorial term, and unless you are elected as President, you're done with Federal representation. And NO lobbying once you're out of office.

Tell me why this would be bad for America. I know why it would be bad for the corrupt scum in Washington.

ALL of the polls that are independent have a large majority of Americans against this rotten bill. The main sticking point is a fast track to citizenship. That's bad when these people broke laws to be here. Perhaps we should bring in a lot of people from China first and see how the current illegals like it?

Posted by: Kev | June 24, 2007 8:50 PM

I agree with term limits, but I would hold them to 4 years per Senator or Representative. With 2 terms served being the maximum.

I also think they should not be allowed to raise their own salaries and I think their benefits should expire when their service term expires.

Posted by: LMC | June 24, 2007 8:58 PM

Just a word on the ones that oppose immigration. I guess you all love Jeff Session. He the Right guy ah? And and far as you know there is not racism involved...this is pure economics yeap right ...take a look in the history of this senator NOte: I didnt make it up...is in on the record

"In 1986, Sessions was nominated for a federal judgeship by Reagan. The nomination was killed by the Senate Judiciary Committee, which refused by a 10-8 vote[3] to let the nomination come to the Senate floor for a vote. Sessions' opponents accused him of "gross insensitivity" on racial issues"

Posted by: LINDA | June 24, 2007 9:00 PM

How about finding out how many of the distinguished Senators and their families employ illegal aliens such as maids, gardeners, cooks, valets, etc. Further, isn't it time ICE raided the Kennedy Hyannisport Compound, Kennebunkport and Rancho Busho?

Posted by: Harlan P. Higglesby | June 24, 2007 9:01 PM

THAT DON'T WANT THIS BILL....


PEOPLE THAT UNDERSTAND IT, NUMBER IN THE 92% RATE AGAINST IT...

the illegals
_don't care_

how they affect the citizens.

they _are_ playing the pity card.

_THEY_ are _unwilling_ to make _their_
country a better place to live...

_THEY_ are willing to contribute to the
degradation
of services available to the citizens here.

that is only part of the problem.

The main problem is that the affluents, primarily an international group,
are selling their citizen out.

And you _PLAYING THE RACE CARD_ are assisting that, by pretending it is personal, when it's very impersonal...

you just want to hire the cheapest labor, regardless of what it does to this country and you are trying to play the race card, you are race baiting

ryan et al...you are scum

you're trying to make it appear as_if it were _racist_
.
YOU ARE THE RACE BAITORS...


AND LIARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


DEPRESSING WAGES HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE...

grow up and get a job.

.

Posted by: IT AINT THE MINORITY | June 24, 2007 9:03 PM

Well Lisa no i only tell people that when they display the ignorance that you ahve showed today and your point could be taken well that they don't like me but they just leave every other line to so they don't like anyone that seems kind of far fetched and again please get your facts right bonuses are not automatically figured in and i believe they would tell us if they were giving us bonuses when we applied for the job the simple fact is is that i worked because they paid me not to get a bonus.
P.S. i'm not disputing the fact that some white people have a work ethic i mean look at bill gates or any other white person that has experienced success i'm not talking about them or you. i'm talking about the white people that are a drain on the economy that live in a trailer and complain about how they have to work and that they should be given better stuff for free and i am not saying either that we should allow the latin people that don't feel they need to work or are criminals to stay another thing to would be they have to learn english in order to stay

Posted by: Ryan | June 24, 2007 9:06 PM

America should not become a society where the rich and powerful corporations control a massive number of guest workers. The Bill will uncap immigration to the United States. We need a smaller, citizenship only bill. Kennedy-Bush is an elitist coup-d'etat. Apologist for Mc-Cain/Feinstein who scream "xenophobia" are shrill and desperate. Bottom line is immigration hurts lower and middle class wages.

Posted by: NOH1B | June 24, 2007 9:07 PM

GROW UP!!!!


YOUR LYING PIECE OF HUMAN EXCREMENT PRESIDENTE'

BY FRAUD..........


ALREADY PASSED A LAW TO GIVE YOU


700 MILES OF FENCE AND IT WAS PAID FOR!!!!!!!!!

WHERE IS IT?????


THEY RE COMMITED THE MONEY ELSE WHERE.....


to some of his friends in MINNESOTA...


AND THE $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS GIVEN TO BOEING FOR BORDER SURVEILLANCE DEVICES????


WHERE THE HELL ARE _THEY_??????????????


can you say B.S. TALKS AND YOUR PRESIDENTE'

TED KENNEDY AND THE OTHER SUPPORTERS ARE LIARS??????????????


ENFORCE THE LAWS!!!!

ARREST THE EMPLOYERS....

start with the ranches and factories of the supporters of this bill!!!!!!!!!!


take your country back, and take them DOWN!

.

Posted by: HELLO AMERICA!!!!!! | June 24, 2007 9:08 PM

RYAN YOU

ARE THE

RASCIST...


AND YOU WANT SPECIAL PRIVELEGES GRANTED TO YOU...


MAKE YOUR OWN COUNTRY A PLACE THAT IS SOOOOO GOOD YOU DON'T WANT TO LEAVE IT...


otherwise, get a job....you are a person without a reason to exist...you live off of other people...


.

Posted by: HEY | June 24, 2007 9:11 PM

Kennedy knew when he concocted this treasonous garbage that the only way to get amnesty through would be to attach it to something that needed to be passed, like genuine border security. If he thinks were wasting too much time debating the issue, he's right. We should have spent ten minutes separating the garbage from the good, and then spend the rest of the time fine tuning the good. Throw amnesty in the trash with Kennedy and Bush and get a GOOD FAITH bill on the floor that will protect us from the criminals that stream in while Kennedy and Bush plot more fraud with their co-conspirators.

Posted by: Tim | June 24, 2007 9:11 PM

RYAN YOU

ARE THE

RASCIST...


AND YOU WANT SPECIAL PRIVELEGES GRANTED TO YOU...


MAKE YOUR OWN COUNTRY A PLACE THAT IS SOOOOO GOOD YOU DON'T WANT TO LEAVE IT...


otherwise, get a job....you are a person without a reason to exist...you live off of other people...


.

Posted by: HEY | June 24, 2007 9:11 PM

First of all hey i have a job i am not complaining for special privileges i have a job and i am supporting both my wife and myself. and i have no problem with white people so long as they pull their own weight in this country and i don't have to pay their welfare through my taxes

Posted by: Ryan | June 24, 2007 9:17 PM

Ryan...that's all I was trying to get you to say. That not all whites are lazy and not all Latins are stellar employees the way you claimed in your previous posts. Every individual should be treated fairly no matter what color their skin is. But this amnesty bill is not a fair bill to the true citizens of America. No matter how you slice it.

Posted by: Lisa | June 24, 2007 9:20 PM

This country was founded on freedoom, search for happiness and a better life for self and family members. Many of the immigrantes are wanting the same exact thing that our past fathers wanted. Why try to make it even harder for other people to attempted to survive in the U.S. Yes, I do believe they should be punished for entering illegally, but many of them are try to have a better life and trying to give their kids a life worth living. so give them a break! Why is the laws differ for Cuban's vs, others??? explain!

Posted by: Ginia FLA. | June 24, 2007 9:22 PM

I'd like to see a mass deportation, just like Buchanan says. Gang Activity would just explode in the streets taking advantage of it, And then We'd have the Reserve jumping in and the result would be disastrous and United States would go in total Chaos. No!!! I don't want to see that. Buchanan, Dobbs, and all those who are fighting against it are positively wrong. On Law Enforcement, I support it, but a thougher one, Punishing every criminal regarding if they are legal or not. If they are white, brown, yellow, blue or any color. I say LAW SHOULD PUNISH EQUALLY. Those who gain status a long time and did serious crimes, lock them up. take away their rights and throw them out back to their country, regardless what status they are holding, included citizens. For the Safety of MY COUNTRY, LAW SHOULD DO A THOROUGH sweep and knock on every door and scan our backgrounds and get punished. Regardless if you are the Pope or not. I want to know who everyone is and what their plans are. So everyone get ready to undisclosed your garbage to the new LAW. I want every murderer, Child molester, rapists and anyone who happens to own illegal firearms and anyone who can be a possible threat locked up in a metal box for life, or picking rocks out on the Moon.

And this Immigration I want it to pass so I know who everyone is as well.

Posted by: 43236403 | June 24, 2007 9:25 PM

Oh well in that case Lisa i am sorry i probably did not word what i was saying right but i believe that all immigrants that are granted the amnesty should be able to understand english pass a background check and be able to pay back taxes and any immigration fees that may occur when they are being proccessed

Posted by: Ryan | June 24, 2007 9:26 PM

Say no to elitist control of government! Dump the senate bill! No Y visas! No H visas! No Z visas! No uncapping! Moderate, smaller citizenship only program! No amnesty! Bush/Kennedy fans should take their ultra rich Ivy League tax breaks and move to Cayman Islands where subservient underclass can serve them pina coladas forever.

Posted by: NOH1B | June 24, 2007 9:28 PM

if theeeese peeeeple had not taken to the streets last year carrying mexican flags and calling us white europeon interlopers this amnesty would have been law last year. you goofed by showing us your true intentions. which i might say are quite alarming to americans.

Posted by: gary | June 24, 2007 9:28 PM

Ginia FLA

Good point! Why is it that if a Cuban alien makes it to shore he is given status and if anyone else south of the border or in the Carribean does the same thing, they are illegal.

Posted by: MICHAEL1945 | June 24, 2007 9:29 PM

1. In 1986, Ted Kennedy's blanket amnesty for 2.7 million illegal aliens promised a lot more enforcement but did not set any requirements for actual reductions in illegal immigration. The illegal flow continued.
2. In 1994, Ted Kennedy's Section 245(i) Amnesty gave legal residence and jobs to 578,000 illegal aliens. It was a temporary rolling amnesty primarily for extended family members of immigrants who instead of waiting in line, come on to the country illegally. The illegal flow continued.
3. In 1997, Ted Kennedy's extension of the Section 245(i) rolling amnesty was followed by an increasing flow of illegal immigration.
4. In 1997, Ted Kennedy also won an amnesty for close to one million illegal aliens from Central America. Illegal immigration sped up some more.
5. In 1998, Ted Kennedy won an amnesty for 125,000 illegal aliens from Haiti. The illegal flow continued.
6. In 2000, Ted Kennedy got the so-called Late Amnesty, legalizing another 400,000 illegal aliens who claimed that they missed out on Kennedy's 1986 amnesty. Illegal immigration continued unimpeded.
7. In 2000, Ted Kennedy also won the LIFE Act Amnesty for an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens. It was another reinstatement of the rolling Section 245(i) amnesty, an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens. Illegal immigration accelerated.

Now, Ted Kennedy is saying that this amnesty is necessary if we are ever to stop the flow of illegal aliens. Why would any of these Senators believe him when he says this amnesty bill will end illegal immigration with a track record

Posted by: bl | June 24, 2007 9:33 PM

Alot of people are saying don't let the illegals in their counrty and for them to return. if you think about it truly you will see that those types of poeople are the people that keeps the country running, because not white citizen would pick oranges in the hot scroching heat and white citizen would pick apples in the cold winter. there are lots of jobs i know that many citizens of america will REFUSE to do. so if you have someone that is willing to do so legally if granted let them do it or the economic system will defintly go down hill.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 24, 2007 9:33 PM

Mass immigration program has bashed American wages for 30 years : http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back504.html

"Census data from 1960 through 2000. Statistical analysis shows that when immigration increases the supply of workers in a skill category, the earnings of native-born workers in that same category fall. The negative effect will occur regardless of whether the immigrant workers are legal or illegal, temporary or permanent. Any sizable increase in the number of immigrants will inevitably lower wages for some American workers. Conversely, reducing the supply of labor by strict immigration enforcement and reduced legal immigration would increase the earnings of native workers."

Why do Americans workers keep having to pay for the rich's party?

Posted by: NOH1B | June 24, 2007 9:33 PM

I've been following the comment sections in the various ed-op pieces online. I just wanted to let everyone know that this comment section appears to contain a heavier weighting of pro-amnesty supporters. My observations have been closer to 80-90 percent. I tabulated one at 96 percent against amnesty and 4 percent in favor of amnesty. That was in the Orlando Sentinel, a liberal paper. My suspicion is that some Mexicans are attempting to influence public opinion as the mainstream Hispanic population has been supporting demonstrations and media propaganda. The fact is that legal Mexican citizens are the only group in the United States to attempt a coup by saturating the media with disinformation. No other immigrants from any other country have even suggested, as have the Mexicans, that we bring the rest of their country over as well. A poll of what few Mexicans are still left in Mexico indicated that almost half would come to the United States if allowed. I'm for controlled rational immigration so long as it's in the best interest of this country. There is an optimal population which we may have already exceeded. Allowing 20-30 million illegals citizenship that they don't deserve is a slap in the face to those who have followed all the appropriate legal procedures. I grew up with Mexicans and have been very close friends with some. They are being injured by the spillover of public opinion against Mexicans because of the attempted coup by some of their opportunistic fellow Mexicans in collusion with these graft bags few still call representatives. Fair and Honest Americans whether Hispanic, White, Black, Asian, European, or any other representation, all agree on one thing. AMNESTY IS WRONG.

By the way, while researching this slave labor importation, I came upon this, the first reference to an official slave class that began in Portugal and then branched out to Europe and America. I can't verify it's authenticity but since it was an official proclamation, I suspect it should be verifiable.

http://www.brycchancarey.com/slavery/chrono2.htm

-bull
a formal proclamation issued by the pope (usually written in antiquated characters and sealed with a leaden bulla)

18 June 1452: Pope Nicholas V issues Dum Diversas, a bull authorising the Portuguese to reduce any non-Christians to the status of slaves.

It makes me wonder how the Catholic Church will treat this countries citizens when it becomes predominantly Catholic and just as poor as Mexico.

Posted by: Tim | June 24, 2007 9:51 PM

My above comment might have been ambiguous.
My observations indicate approximately 80 to 90 percent of comments to op-eds and other news were AGAINST amnesty, 10-20 percent IN FAVOR of amnesty. The one I analyzed very carefully was 96 percent AGAINST and 4 percent IN FAVOR of amnesty. I can't deduce which comments come from U.S. citizens and which come from illegals or legal Hispanics attempting to influence public opinion but I do resent the fact that after entering our country illegally they are now disguising themselves as citizens so as to corrupt our public opinion. Regardless of how you dress it up, that is a coup attempt. Period.

Posted by: Tim | June 24, 2007 10:03 PM

The Republican/Democratic globalist coalition is finally on the defensive and now all they can do cite anectdotes and mumble whiny accusations. You had your day in the sun and you made big bucks off of it. But it's over. Sorry, now it's the Americans turn. America for the Americans (and the select few we invite in the front door)! If the Mexicans need some help overthrowing their corrupt, racist dictoratorship, we'd be glad to help.

Posted by: Dumpthebill | June 24, 2007 10:04 PM

hey folks. easy does it with total and complete restrictions on employing illegal personnel. remember, they are all ready encamped in the USA. what do you think the reported 12 to 20 million illegals will do in order to feed their family, if they can't find jobs in the USA? Can you imagine that many folks having to turn to crime? Hopeful Home Land Security is fully prepared to answer such a possible threat.

Posted by: bataclanero | June 24, 2007 10:05 PM

fisrt of all. one must remember the history of this country and that the mass of us here are actualy immigrants. let us first look at what or who is an "illegal immigrant." there are so many people who pays their taxes who are not illegals but have had some form of immigration issue which bars them from becoming a resident alien or citizen. every person fall into different categories and one has to be educated on some of the cases which places one in an unfairly yet illegal status before commenting. stop using these terms which are actually "hate" towards another person race, religion and nationality

Posted by: kitty | June 24, 2007 10:11 PM

Fight back America! We beat facism. We beat communism. We can beat globalism, too!

Posted by: Dumpthebill | June 24, 2007 10:18 PM

No, Mark E. you did a lousy job in English...please spare us an attempt in Spanish!

Lisa,you advocate punishing illegal immigrants for breaking the law. The people that really should be punished are those that hire them. They also are "criminals", but of a worse kind because, for the most part, they are exploiters.

rjvm

Posted by: rjvm | June 24, 2007 10:29 PM

"Oh my god!!!I am amazed by the bad things illegal immigrants bring to the country . Let's deport them, we dont need them. Let's start paying five times what we pay for vegetables, fruits, etc. And, let's see who can afford to eat in this country anymore?"

I believe that Simon Legree made the same argument about slavery in the late 1850's.

Posted by: Charlie | June 24, 2007 10:30 PM

All nations are nations of immigrants, except for Ethiopia.

Posted by: NationofAmericans | June 24, 2007 10:33 PM

the illegals
_don't care_

how they affect the citizens.

they _are_ playing the pity card.

_THEY_ are _unwilling_ to make _their_
country a better place to live...

_THEY_ are willing to contribute to the
degradation
of services available to the citizens here.

that is only part of the problem.

The main problem is that the affluents, primarily an international group,
are selling their citizen out.

And you _the media_ are assisting that, by reporting on stories as-if
it were personal, when it's very impersonal...

and you're trying to make it appear as_if it were _racist_
.

Posted by: HEY WHERE ARE THE REST OF THE COMMENTS??? | June 24, 2007 10:37 PM

are cutting out about 3/4 of the blog comments that were here...


what is that all about?


handling perceptions?


this is AMERICA not the SOVIET UNION...


MOST OF AMERICA IS OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION...


HOW ABOUT LETTING AMERICANS SEE THAT?


ARE YOU TAKING A PAYOFF?????

.

Posted by: and you | June 24, 2007 10:43 PM

HELLO AMERICA!!!!!!

GROW UP!!!!


YOUR LYING PIECE OF HUMAN EXCREMENT PRESIDENTE' JORGE' is

BY FRAUD..........


is trying to give your world away.


_WE_THE_PEOPLE_

OF_THE_UNITED_STATES_OF_AMERICA_

ALREADY PASSED A LAW TO GIVE YOU


700 MILES OF FENCE AND IT WAS PAID FOR!!!!!!!!!


WHERE IS IT?????


THEY RE COMMITED THE MONEY ELSE WHERE.....


to some of his friends in MINNESOTA...


AND THE $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS GIVEN TO BOEING FOR BORDER SURVEILLANCE DEVICES????


WHERE THE HELL ARE _THEY_??????????????


can you say B.S. TALKS AND YOUR PRESIDENTE'

TED KENNEDY AND THE OTHER SUPPORTERS ARE LIARS??????????????


ENFORCE THE LAWS!!!!

ARREST THE EMPLOYERS....

start with the ranches and factories of the supporters of this bill!!!!!!!!!!


take your country back, and take them DOWN!

.

HELLO AMERICA!!!!!!

Posted by: HELLO AMERICA!!!!!! | June 24, 2007 10:49 PM

Just remember the traitors who vote for amnesty. Lets vote them out of office! McCain,Kyl,Trent Lott are a few of the Republican traitors who are being paid off by La Raza and other amnesty groups for their support. If America accepts 20 million instant citizens and then in the next ten years we accept another 40 million of their relatives, we are finished.

Posted by: Bob in Upland CA | June 24, 2007 11:02 PM

Deport Kennedy/Bush !

Posted by: Dumpthebill | June 24, 2007 11:03 PM

To all you Xenophobes out there, there are only two options for you: 1. Be sure that your kids and grandkids learn how to speak and write Spanish so that they will be comfortable and have a chance of succeeding in a society that inevitably will become the main stream, or,2. Pack up your belongings ASAP and move to another country where you won't feel so threatened and ( perhaps) be happier.

As for those calling for a boycott of Mexico, not allowing illegal immigrants to send the money they earned here back to their home country or deporting all of them...how stupid is that??!! Anyone with half a brain realizes this would not only destabalize Mexico but also, in all probabilities, Central America. Even Bush understands that! Then, it doesn't matter what kind of wall is put up, it will not keep untold millions of people from crossing into the country.

rjvm

Posted by: rjvm | June 24, 2007 11:09 PM

To all you Xenophobes out there, there are only two options for you: 1. Be sure that your kids and grandkids learn how to speak and write Spanish so that they will be comfortable and have a chance of succeeding in a society that inevitably will become the main stream, or,2. Pack up your belongings ASAP and move to another country where you won't feel so threatened and ( perhaps) be happier.

As for those calling for a boycott of Mexico, not allowing illegal immigrants to send the money they earned here back to their home country or deporting all of them...how stupid is that??!! Anyone with half a brain realizes this would not only destabalize Mexico but also, in all probabilities, Central America. Even Bush understands that! Then, it doesn't matter what kind of wall is put up, it will not keep untold millions of people from crossing into the country.

rjvm

Posted by: rjvm | June 24, 2007 11:09 PM

Hey Bob in Upland, AFL-CIO and Teamsters and a lot of other Democrats oppose the bill. Labor and populist Democrats need to knock off a few of those snooty rich punks in the Democratic party, too. It's time for guys like Kennedy and Hillary to take a hike. Patriots of both parties need to clean house ... and the Senate!

Posted by: Dumpthebill | June 24, 2007 11:11 PM

to turn the current, OCCUPATION, marginalization of humanity, legalization of poverty, and inhumanity around

if the people _knew_ that all that they needed to turn their lives around was to understand THIS:

YOU HAVE A CHOICE, ACT ON IT....VOTE FOR YOUR COUNTRY AND FELLOW CITIZENS....

LOOK,
ORDINARY BLUE COLLAR (former middle class) now odd jobbing, RETAIL, or temp workers at two jobs IF YOU knew that YOU CAN vote YOUR selves a new life....

if YOU could just _frame_ what you need to say...what IS keeping YOU down,

if YOU could just GRASP THAT WHAT YOU NEEDED to turn YOUR life around IS to understand that:

YOUR lives ARE BEING sacrificed for CORPORATE AND ELITIST INTERESTS,

AND YOU ARE NOT GETTING PAID A FAIR SALARY,

AND ELITISTs CHILDREN, ARE NOT GETTING KILLED TO STEAL OIL,

and YOUR FUTURE IS BEING SOLD TO INTERNATIONALISTS MONIED INTERESTS.

THE COUNTRY THAT _YOU_THE_PEOPLE_ HAVE WORKED FOR

AND WORKED HARD,
TO _MAKE_ _T_H_I_S_ COUNTRY GREAT!!!!!!!!!!

and it's being taken away,

IF MY FELLOW CITIZENS COULD JUST comprehend two things, these two things:

1. corporations are not acting in the best interests of citizens that they are claiming as their country of origin, and need to have their _favors_ rescinded...

a. outsourcing needs to be regulated, and stopped.

b. companies that move their physical
operations overseas that call
themselves American aren't, and should get
treated as foreign competitors...

c. we need to bring back manufacturing
jobs to the United States, and
reestablish our blue-collar/trade
based, middle-class...so that
opportunity exists for everyone that
is a citizen. There used to be blue collar
jobs that were a ticket out of the ghetto class.

2. hiring of "illegals" moves money out of the country, displaces American workers in the service sector and blue collar sector.


a productive society is one that exists to include _A_L_L_ OF the citizens of the entire spectrum of wealth, not just the upper .5% and their INTERNATIONAL FRIENDS...

we don't need to go back to the 19th century mindset that has a wealthy class and a serf or peasant class...

which is WHERE THIS BILL IS TAKING YOU...

this is a further erosion of the middle class....


H1-B VISA INCREASE WHEN WE HAVE OUT OF WORK ENGINEERS??????

...


CORPORATIONS NEED TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE TO THE CITIZENS OR


MOVE OUT...

AMERICA DOES NOT NEED YOU, WE _ARE_ THE BIGGEST MARKET...

YOU DON'T WANT TO SELL HERE???

SEE YAH, F*** OFF!

.

.

HELLO! AMERICA....goodbye elite interest groups...

Posted by: HELLO! AMERICA.... | June 24, 2007 11:14 PM

Hey rjvm, not true. We don't fear foreigners, we love them. We support them in their struggle against the corrupt dictators that oppress the people. Thinking that all they're good for is indentured servitude in America is the real racism . You are the "xenophobe". Pretty lame that all you can do is call people names. Got a real argument?

Posted by: Dumpthebill | June 24, 2007 11:16 PM

America is not great because it has had immigration; America is great because it was founded on the most enlightened principles of government ever experimented with in human history.

Although we have been an immigrant nation, we literally are not a nation of immigrants or the children of immigrants. Long before the country was constituted in 1776, the vast majority of people in the colonies were native-born. Our primary identity has never been where we came from, or that we came from somewhere else. "Our identity is what we have become first and foremost: a nation of Americans.

If we honored tradition by matching the immigrant flows of the Colonial period that created this new nation, we would take 3,500 immigrants every year. Right now, we take about 3,500 EVERY DAY! (From Ellis Island Museum)

Immigration as a percentage of population is a valid consideration when weighing assimilation capacity; but what matters to environmental resources and infrastructure capacity - that are over, or close to, the edge of over-exploitation is
absolute numbers.

Romanticizers of the Great Wave of immigration are unfortunately guilty of an especially grievous case of Euro-centric
myopia. From an African-American point of view, the Great Wave delayed their economic opportunity for decades and the extreme waves of illegal immigrants are now affecting their opportunities once again.

Posted by: Logical American | June 24, 2007 11:25 PM

what you people write is a waste of time this country is gone gone gone i am seventy six years old a veteran my grand children are spoiled no way they will live and have a country that is divided like ours. thirty years from now i think the usa will be like india or mexico americans better wake up or god help you

Posted by: guy | June 24, 2007 11:29 PM

what you people write is a waste of time this country is gone gone gone i am seventy six years old a veteran my grand children are spoiled no way they will live and have a country that is divided like ours. thirty years from now i think the usa will be like india or mexico americans better wake up or god help you

Posted by: guy | June 24, 2007 11:29 PM

HERE's ONE OF THEM THREATENING YOU!!!

Posted by: bataclanero SAYS:

hey folks. easy does it with total and complete restrictions on employing illegal personnel. remember, they are all ready encamped in the USA. what do you think the reported 12 to 20 million illegals will do in order to feed their family, if they can't find jobs in the USA? Can you imagine that many folks having to turn to crime? Hopeful Home Land Security is fully prepared to answer such a possible threat.


I REPLY, HEY, MAYBE WE AIN'T WORRIED ABOUT IT....

NO JOBS? SEE YAH, GO HOME HEFFE....

TURN YOUR OWN COUNTRY AROUND.

YOU WANNA PLAY TOUGH? I GOT SOME REDNECKS AND EX SEALS I WANT YOU TO MEET OKAY BUDDAY?

.


Posted by: HEY LOOK, | June 24, 2007 11:34 PM

ps.

there are 900,000 LEGAL IMMIGRANTS INTO THIS COUNTRY EVERY YEAR...


and a waiting list. People that are under duress sometimes get short listed...


There is ample opportunity to come into this country legally.


this law, is simply a short cut for GEORGE BUSH to move some

CONTRA, SANDANISTA, CHILEAN, COLUMBIAN...hardcores into this country...

the PRESIDENTE of ME HICO...LOBBIED CONGRESS

to GRANT AMNESTY TO MEXICAN LIVING HERE _ILLEGALLY_

you know why? they send mucho dinero home...

money moving out of country, not reinvested in_country...

take the jobs away from citizens give them to Jose', Jose' takes the money and goes home eventually, because he can buy more with his money in that other country...

meanwhile AMERICANS ARE OUT OF WORK AND CAN'T BUY ANY THING...

CAR SALES, MORTGAGES SLUMP... the markets tank... you have to start buying everything from CHINA...oh, that is already happening...


look, poor people making up the bulk of the population, makes for a very unhappy and unhealthy country...

we don't need a 3rd World AMERICA...

bring back the MIDDLE CLASS, vote these a**holes out and

let's move on, stop outsourcing, freeze H1-B VISAS, and arrest the whitehouse

make the world a better place to live in by requiring your leaders to do what they are


paid to do, THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE...

if they don't , indict, arrest, try , convict and shoot them...if found guilty

after you attach their properties...sue them into oblivion.

.

Posted by: HELLO AMERICA! | June 24, 2007 11:43 PM

Let me get this straight...according to Senator Swimmer..I mean Kennedy, Thanks to the Bush policies we have the worst economy in at least 70 years...maybe things are even as bad as when the first pioneers were here and had to eat nuts and berries to survive..The good multi-millionaire Kennedy scion's solution to this: OPEN THE FLOOD GATES AND LET EVEN MORE COMPETE FOR THE JOBS AND DRIVE WAGES EVEN LOWER. MORAL: Rich people are rich people 1st and whatever else they are 2nd.

Teddy is truly Joe Kennedy's son...Remember Joe as WWII as US ambassador to England??? The apple didn't fll far from the tree.

Posted by: steve | June 24, 2007 11:56 PM

Hey Look

I'm glad you are so optimistic about a bunch of red necks and ex seals trying to get rid of 12 million mexicans i can see the headlines the next day red necks found dead in the streets

ps how did you plan on organizing that??

Posted by: Ryan | June 24, 2007 11:57 PM

HERE's ONE OF THEM _ILLEGALS_ THREATENING YOU!!!

Posted by: bataclanero SAYS:

hey folks. easy does it with total and complete restrictions on employing illegal personnel. remember, they are all ready encamped in the USA. what do you think the reported 12 to 20 million illegals will do in order to feed their family, if they can't find jobs in the USA? Can you imagine that many folks having to turn to crime? Hopeful Home Land Security is fully prepared to answer such a possible threat.


I REPLY: HEY, bataclanero, MAYBE WE AIN'T WORRIED ABOUT IT....

you want to commit a crime on top of coming here _ILLEGALLY_ and STEALING JOBS????

MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE A BOUNTY ON TURNING IN _ILLEGALS_....lotta out of work AMERICANS COULD USE A GRAND OR TWO...

just think!, turning in two three _illegals_ a week for a $1000 bounty, could be big money....yes indeed...maybe $144K a year...yeah, nice, let's do it...

take that IRAQ OCCUPATION MONEY,

AND STRAIGHTEN THIS COUNTRY OUT!

NO JOBS? SEE YAH, GO HOME HEFFE....

TURN YOUR OWN COUNTRY AROUND.

YOU WANNA PLAY TOUGH? I GOT SOME REDNECKS AND EX SEALS I WANT YOU TO MEET OKAY BUDDAY?

.


Posted by: HELLO AMERICANS.... | June 25, 2007 12:00 AM

like RYAN is threatening AMERICANS TOO!!!


it reminds me so much of the HUG A MEXICAN DAY WHEN THEY WERE OUT WITH THIER FLAGS OF MEXICO

TALKING ABOUT RECONQUISTA...


LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE START ARRESTING EMPLOYERS....

looks like ryan wants to intimidate AMERICANS EH?

.

Posted by: looks | June 25, 2007 12:04 AM

Hello americans...

all i have to say to you is how can someone be so ignorant to actually post that

Posted by: Ryan | June 25, 2007 12:05 AM

why GEORGE H.W. BUSH and his son want sooooo badly to open the doors to

LATINOS?


search on GARY WEBB, COCAINE, PARRY, GEORGE H.W. BUSH...


and look for the part about the letter of understanding between the DOJ and the CIA, allowing the CIA to drug traffick, without keeping records or being prosecuted...

some say that George H.W. Bush was responsible for the crack empidemic in the U.S.... but dick got him off...

what are the MEN AND WOMEN IN IRAQ DYING AND LOSING BODY PARTS FOR??????

OIL and drug trafficking...

are the United States Soldiers getting a cut, of _t_h_a_t_ M O N E Y?

no they are getting their legs blown off, getting medals of honor and waiting two years to be declared disabled as they lose homes that they can't make mortgage payments on.

Just as the Iran-Contra scandal evolved to include drug smuggling, the Iraq War also is closely related to drug smuggling. While the Bush regime has so far managed to keep the drug smuggling aspects of the war from reaching the media, evidence is beginning to emerge. The evidence comes largely from a former FBI translator turned whistle-blower, Sibel Edmonds. Hired to translate intercepted messages soon after 9/11 this Turkish lady first blew the whistle on the FBI for dragging its feet. She has state emphatically that she has seen documents that prove the Bush administration was fully aware of the terrorist attack before 9/11. While Attorney General John Aschroft has imposed a gag order on her, this courageous lady has only been able to speak in generalized terms. However, she has repeatedly stated that when viewed as an international drug smuggling operation the picture becomes clear.

Sibel Edmonds has provided a huge clue in her generalized statements, a clue that points directly at the Bush family and DICK CHENEY. Haliburton the oil services company formerly headed by CHENEY has a long history of involvement in drug smuggling and gunrunning especially through its Brown and Root subsidiary. Brown and Root also has a long history of providing cover for CIA agents. In the late 1970s Brown and Root was implicated in drug smuggling and gunrunning from oil platforms in the Gulf of Mexico built by Brown and Root and using ships owned by Brown and Root. In the 1990s Brown and Root was implicated in smuggling heroin to Europe through Russia. The heroin originated in Laos.

The Russian incident surfaced in 1995 after thieves stole sacks of heroin concealed as sugar from a rail container leased by Alfa Echo. Authorities were alerted to the problem after residents of Khabarovsk, a Siberian city became intoxicated from consuming the heroin. Alfa Echo is part of the Russian Alfa group of companies controlled by Mikhail Fridman and Pyotr Aven. The FSB, the Russian equivalent of the FBI firmly proved a solid link between Alfa Tyumen and drug smuggling. The drug smuggling route was further exposed after the Ministry of Internal Affairs raided Alfa Eko buildings and found drugs and other compromising documentation. Under Cheney's leadership of Haliburton, Brown and Root received a taxpayer insured loan through the Export-Import Bank of $292 million dollars for Brown and Root to refurbish a Siberian oil field owned by Alfa Tyumen. The Alfa Bank is also implicated in money laundering for the Colombian cocaine cartels.

THERE IS $80 BILLION IN UNRECORDED PROFITS IN THE FIRST STEP OF AFGHANI OPIUM COLLECTION, refinement...three steps later it could be worth $400 BILLION, in unrecorded profits...

This protection of the Iran-contra secrets almost worked. The few reporters (including myself) who uncovered parts of the story were subjected to assaults on our reputations and careers.

Despite the growing evidence, most of the major news media dismissed the stories of secret operations and related drug trafficking as conspiracy nonsense.

The scandal only unraveled because of outside events. On Oct. 5, 1986, one of North's supply planes was shot down over Nicaragua.

The sole surviving crewman, Eugene Hasenfus, pointed the finger at George Bush's vice presidential office and the CIA. Bush and other administration officials denied Hasenfus's statement.

The second Iran-contra shoe dropped in early November 1986 with a story in a Beirut newspaper about the Iran arms sales. When the secret about North's diverting Iranian arms profits to the contras was disclosed a few weeks later, the Iran-contra scandal was born.

But the Reagan-Bush administration was not ready to tell all. Immediately, the administration and Republicans on Capitol Hill moved to counter and to contain the scandal. For his part, Bush insisted that he was "not in the loop" on the Iran-contra business.

Cheney to the Rescue

One of the key congressional Republicans fighting this rear-guard action was Rep. Dick Cheney of Wyoming, who became the ranking House Republican on the Iran-contra investigation. Cheney already enjoyed a favorable reputation in Washington as a steady conservative hand.

Cheney smartly exploited his relationship with Rep. Lee Hamilton, D-Ind., who was chairman of the Iran-contra panel. Hamilton cared deeply about his reputation for bipartisanship and the Republicans quickly exploited this fact.

A senior committee source said one of Cheney's top priorities was to block Democrats from deposing Vice President Bush about his Iran-contra knowledge. Cheney "kept trying to intimidate Hamilton," the source said. "He kept saying if we go down that road, we won't have bipartisanship."

So, Hamilton gave Bush a pass. The limited investigation also gave little attention to other sensitive areas, such as contra-drug trafficking and the public diplomacy operation. They were pared down or tossed out altogether.

Despite surrendering to Cheney's demands time and again, Hamilton failed, in the end, to get a single House Republican to sign the final report.

Only three moderate Republicans on the Senate side - Warren Rudman, William Cohen and Paul Trible - agreed to sign the report, after extracting more concessions. Cheney and the other Republicans submitted a minority report that denied that any significant wrongdoing had occurred.

The watered-down Iran-contra majority report essentially let Vice President Bush off the hook. Bush's political career was saved.

With the Iran-contra scandal contained, Bush mounted a 1988 presidential campaign that set the modern standard for negativity, race-baiting and a win-at-all-cost ethic. In 1989, Cheney became Bush's defense secretary.

Posted by: wanna find out | June 25, 2007 12:09 AM

your IP ADDY is up for all the world to see...


this site is watched , you are not invisible...

nor am I, but I do know how it works.


as for you, hasta manana pepe'

Posted by: hey ryan | June 25, 2007 12:11 AM

you know what how can you people actually talk about treating another human being that way isn't america founded on the priciples of justice and equality you people should just go back to your klan meetings and leave us normal people alone

Posted by: Ryan | June 25, 2007 12:12 AM

yeah you f***ing idiot good thing i am not at home and you are not intelligent

Posted by: Ryan | June 25, 2007 12:15 AM

You know what is sad is that you actually take the time you hick to threaten someone for just being more intelligent than you are

Posted by: Ryan | June 25, 2007 12:22 AM

LOOKS LIKE THE SNAKE IS OUT OF THE BOX!!

AMERICA, LOOK AT RYAN!!!

looks like RYAN is threatening AMERICANS TOO!!!


it reminds me so much of the HUG A MEXICAN DAY WHEN THEY WERE OUT WITH THIER FLAGS OF MEXICO

TALKING ABOUT RECONQUISTA...


LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE START ARRESTING EMPLOYERS....

looks like ryan wants to intimidate AMERICANS EH?

.

Posted by: HEY!! | June 25, 2007 12:27 AM

To all of you ignorant people...aka Hey, hey ryan, looks, hello Americans.
First off, you are all ridiculous, I hope you know that.
1: Who is going to pay these bounty hunters to get the illegals?
2: Who says they won't just come back?
3: Are you personally being "violated" by these illegals?
4: Does it make you feel better to throw other people down and make them miserable?
I'M SORRY YOU ARE SO INSECURE AND YOU HAVE TO PICK ON PEOPLE THAT CANNOT FIGHT BACK....yeah think about that, you are putting down MINORITIES to make yourself feel better!

Posted by: Ashley | June 25, 2007 12:28 AM

Do you have nothing else to spout but stupidity??

Posted by: Ryan | June 25, 2007 12:31 AM

actually Ashely,

if you look at Ryans posts he is talking about whitemen and such, and in fact he is rascist...

just because you as a college student fall in love with someone that is a thug...

doesn't make him nota thug...

his language is threatening as is his posturing...

and you my dear are an ENABLER,

get it?

panderer to your thug...

grow up read a book, losers protect losers...

pandering to an abusive husband doesn't make them unabusive it makes you stupid and stuck.
.

Posted by: not | June 25, 2007 12:32 AM

Wow i thought i had heard everything i really did not think you could get dumber but looks like you just did technically speaking though you would be the "thug" as you put it i believe threatening others would constitute that and as far as reading a book from my experience well read people are actually far more tolerant than people that do not read

Posted by: Ryan | June 25, 2007 12:38 AM

WOW I'm really glad we have a KNOW-IT-ALL-THUG on here. I don't care what you think, I'm on here defending what is right. I read a lot, if it is any of your business. At least I attend college....and I'm not a low-life high school drop out with no political knowledge. At least I don't talk out of my A** because I have nothing better to say. You did not answer ANY of my questions, you just threatened me. So next time you feel the need to come back at me...back it up.

Posted by: Ashley | June 25, 2007 12:44 AM

i would also be inclined to believe a "thug" would be picking on the minorities instead of protecting them from over-zealous "americans" americans is in quotes because in case you did not know mexico is part of america look at a map before you let your mouth start moving

Posted by: Ryan | June 25, 2007 12:44 AM

actually,

it's not a threat, it is a solution.


if you feel threatened by it, well, sorry...

you shouldn't be breaking the law, right?


people that break laws are supposed to feel threatened by enforcement of the laws...and lawbreakers are called criminals...not miniorities

see the difference?

everyone in AMERICA has some minority in them, and college girls always manage to fall in love with losers that they want to save, that are outside of their economic strata...

just because someone is a minority doesn't make them nice...

it's a case by case basis, and playing the pity card and the race card is

what Ryan does

right milan

.

Posted by: simple words for your simple brain.. | June 25, 2007 12:44 AM

Haha talking with you is actually making me laugh more than i have in a long time i mean honestly how can someone so dense be allowed to vote you cannot seriously believe that the U.S was not founded on ideals of tolerance and a chance to rise above the Status Quo which is all they are trying to do and you like so many small-minded people try and hold them back

Posted by: Ryan | June 25, 2007 12:49 AM

you a little

_E_X_P_O_S_E_D_ ASHLEY?

you have no idea or what I am, you are as predictable as a stepford wife

a robot that is easily manipulated by an emotional entanglement...

ha ha ha...

again, the minority you protect may be using you.

.

your race baiting is rascist, tolerating someone that talks about

"white people," is well to say the least pandering to a th_ugh
.

ps. if you can't take the heat, grow some brains....and learn to be honest...

calling me stupid or whatever, doesn't actually make you look smarter,

it exposes how _old_ you are...

appeal to emotion is the tool of children and republicans....

see you, hope you get caught, both of you...
.

Posted by: are | June 25, 2007 12:50 AM

All you illegals should not think that you have any right to come here and expect to live off of us.

Yeah, I know it is pretty tempting when it is better to live here and we don't throw waste into the streets, and the government is almost inviting you in.
But it is our home! Not yours!

Keep out!
?Comprende`?

We don't come into Mexico and demand stupid things and think we have rights there! And want to be respected and criminals at the same time. You are wrong to come in and it is against the law.
Don't go talk to the senators or congress, they don't know the laws or give a **** for them.
It is hard to get in legally but there is not much in this world that is easy and worth doing at the same time.

So come in at the door legally or...

Stay out!

PS. don't you think that 12 million people that want a better way of life can change their own country? America is what it is because we threw off the tyrannical government and started afresh.

Try it!

Posted by: Superman | June 25, 2007 12:57 AM

I love it, you are trying to figure my life out. I don't even know Ryan. Though I think he is intelligent, I am not "In Love" with him. I'm thinking you're a bored old man and have no life...I'm sorry. You are the RACIST! Think about that. Don't spout off, it just makes you look worse, if possible. You're the one who obviously doesn't know what you're talking about...you aren't back up ANYTHING you say. so, i'll reply when there is something worth replying over.
Go take a drive around the block, look at the stars, calm the f*** down.

Posted by: Ashley | June 25, 2007 1:00 AM

Ted Kennedy was a strong supporter of the 1965 Hart-Celler Act signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson which dramatically changed US immigration policy.

This is what Ted Kennedy said about the 1965 bill.

"The bill will not flood our cities with immigrants. It will not upset the ethnic mix of our society. It will not relax the standards of admission. It will not cause American workers to lose their jobs."

Kennedy is now the chair of the United States Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security and Citizenship, and remains a strong advocate for immigrants, both documented and undocumented

About the same time, there wasn't enough room for citizens to have children.

Back in the 60's the Federal Government came into the public schools and brainwashed us as little children with the message that the children we were about to have were unwanted because the population was rising so fast. They launched a program called, "Zero Population Growth". They pushed Family Planning and birth control pills. I think you and I now both know that you only have to trick people for their few child bearing years and there is no going back.

Many of us never had a say in the future of our unborn.

I am the result of two living cells. One from each of my parents. They are the result of two living cells, one from each of their parents. I wasn't just born. I am a continuation of life. I am a living thing that reaches back into time perhaps 400 million years and the result of billions of joining of pairs of cells. It is possible that if you were to follow my cells back to my parent's cells and beyond that my family tree touches every living thing here on earth. That is if we limit ourselves to believing life was created here on earth. If it rained down from the immensity of the universe it could reach back into that immensity of time and space, and who knows what relationships and who knows what species.

At least until I came up against the Federal Government and their plan to control the population.

I have seen the Federal Government do little else to control the population.

The open border, United States laws only apply to some, is a serious slap in the face. No, not a slap in the face, it reaches well beyond that. Maybe back to the beginning of time and stretch to the bounds of the universe.

Posted by: Carson | June 25, 2007 1:45 AM

What a joke.
You can build all the fences you want, your chance of keeping immigrants out will be as effective as the 40+ year war on drugs. What the congress wants to do with this new bill will do nothing, what people like Lou Dobb's want to do will also do nothing.

The only way to control immigration is to have draconian enforcement against employers AND ALSO have a positive way for employers to quickly determine who is legal and who is not. Easily done by issuing all Social Security cards with the same security features as credit cards have, and currency has. But that is too easy.

The politicians on both sides of this issue know the immigrants are now a necessary part of the economy, and they know no matter what they do they will take heat. Better to appear to the unsophisticated to be doing something or -opposing doing something-than to really find a rational way to regulate immigration.

Those on both sides of this issue are just "Okie charming"

Posted by: plaza04433 | June 25, 2007 1:50 AM

All I have to say is... this is a sad time for America. When we read these comments on this blog and see how our government is selling us out to literally, the lowest bidders...the cheap foreign laborers...I feel sad for this country.

I call for a boycott of all restaurants, especially fast food, hotels/motels, casinos, all of the places that hire illegal immigrants. Mow your own lawns, do your own housework, raise your own kids, grow your own garden vegetables and start getting smart America. Your conveniences and keeping up with "The Jones Family" has gotten you into this situation.

Start going back to simpler times and shed the luxuries that brought in this cheap labor force.

Let's get these businesses where it hurts. In their pockets. Start boycotting any business that hires illegal immigrants.

Fine employers for hiring illegals and then shut down the employers who continually break the laws of our land.

Let's start petitioning our state governments to remove our senators and house representatives from their posts.

As Americans, we need to stand up and fight against selling our country for cheap labor and political votes.

Our government is a disgrace and we deserve to rid them. I am tired of paying taxes that get wasted every day.

I want our troops home from Iraq, and I want this Amnesty bill dead in the water.

If Mexicans are mad about how their country has wronged them, then fight your own government...don't force yourselves on ours.

There is nothing wrong with concerned Americans that do not support this type of Amnesty bill. What is wrong is that the American government has refused to listen to their own people and are still trying to pass this bogus bill.

Impeach Bush...he has done nothing but drive this great country into the ground.

Posted by: Lisa | June 25, 2007 1:59 AM

i just hope that a bipartisan bill is passed this way each side would have to comprimise i think a bill should pass

Posted by: Greg | June 25, 2007 2:49 AM

Here is the biggest issue with Illegal aliens NOT being discussed - and it is affecting our health and welfare...

---
In the 60's, Popeye the Sailor Man guzzled spinach from a can in order to battle the bad guys. He became an icon of good health for those who ate vegetables and exercised.

As of this week across America, you don't want to eat spinach nor any vegetables grown and picked by America's newest slave class. Restaurants called for a ban on serving spinach salads. I'll bet most Americans shy away from lettuce, cabbage and other leafy vegetables in the coming weeks. They're all grown and harvested under the same conditions and same people.

Why? As of Wednesday, 146 citizens in 23 states suffered E-Coli infection and one died.

How do you think this disease outbreak occurred?

To bring it into sobering focus, please understand that 20 million illegal aliens crossed into America in the past 20 years without any kind of health screening. They work picking our food, washing our dishes in restaurants and, as is the norm in Third World countries, rarely if ever wash their hands after using the toilet. Additionally, most of them suffer functional illiteracy. They do not practice personal hygiene or health habits most Americans assume as a normal aspect of living.

While on my 21st Century Paul Revere Ride this summer through 48 states, I saw thousands of illegal aliens wor king in fields the length of California. I rode through Salinas Valley where illegals cultivated crops. I noticed porta-potties sometimes and none at other times. I never saw hand washing facilities.

Pause for a moment, and consider cleanliness habits of Third World people with a fifth grade education. Why does disease affect millions in the Third World? What happens when millions migrate illegally to our country? Might dozens or more do their morning constitutional amongst the crops for lack of a porta-potty? Might the contamination be spread across the fields by the common practice of flood irrigation? Would flooding spread the contamination further? You never hear the major TV networks address or experts talk about this aspect of the contamination of our foods. It's a cover-up, plain and simple. They only report it when it breaks out beyond their ability to squelch it. Remember Chi Chi's Rest- aurants in Pennsylvania that killed several customers because the work staff suffered hepatitis infections? Remember the Center for Disease Control stating they thought the source originated in Mexican fields irrigated with sewage water?

Have you heard about the latest multi drug resistant tuberculosis outbreaks in Philadelphia, Atlanta and near Cleveland this summer? We've imported at least 16,000 cases of TB in the past five years according to latest reports. Before that, TB was virtually extinct in America.

Tuberculosis kills 2,000,000 people world wide annually. Where? In the Third World! Why? Illiteracy, con-taminated water, limited food and lack of hospital care! We've imported 7,000 cases of leprosy in the past three years. It's endemic to the northeast of the United States for the first time ever. Have you heard about it by the major networks? Not a chance!

In an April 25, 2004 front page story of the Santa Barbara News Press, Anatomy of an Outbreak, one illegal alien infected 56 others with tuberculosis. After he avoided police for months, they finally captured him and placed him in quarantine. In September, 2005, a school child in Fort Morgan, Colorado contracted tuberculosis while attending school. How? An illegal alien student suffered from the disease, but was not screened before attending school. Our national media silences these outbreaks.

Do you see a pattern here? It's called Third World Momentum. All the consequences affecting the Third World now manifest in our country. As millions of illegals import themselves into the United States, they bring diseases. They rarely change their sanitation habits or lack thereof. They work in our meat and chicken processing plants at $6.00 an hour. Do you think they bring any responsibility and pride to their work? As more corrupt CEOs bribe health inspectors and OSHA officials, our food sources suffer degraded standards.

Illegal aliens by the millions work in our restaurants. Last spring, a reader of this column from New York City reported, 'Our manager last night ran cursing out the back door of the restaurant with a hand towel box in his hand. Illegals had been using the toilet and threw their used toilet paper into the box because that's what they do in Mexico because sewage systems can't take tissue paper. The illegals had been throwing their used toilet paper into the hand towel box! I traveled through Mexico and saw it myself. This story represents the tip of an ugly disease epidemic growing in America.'

As a nation, what we're facing is like a 50 car pile up on a foggy morning on an expressway in Pennsylvania.

Doesn't anyone see what's happening to America? Apparently not! Sixty-two of your 100 senators voted for S. B. 2611. That bill assures our growth by 100 million in the next 34 years. However, that's 100 million people mostly from Third World countries. That ensures pockets of poverty and disease already ravaging millions in those countries to be transplanted into America.

"For all Americans, this E-Coli outbreak stands as a harbinger of things to come. When you degrade health standards, hire illegal aliens carrying multiple of diseases or disease provoking habits, you've got a national crisis in the making.

U.S. Senators stand at risk as well as their families. Even if they live in gated communities, at some point in time, with these illegal aliens invading every nook and cranny of our society everyone becomes vulnerable to disease, terror, death and fraud wrought by this invasion.

With this E-Coli outbreak, even Popeye may find himself headed for the emergency room. However, he'll be forced to wait in line behind countless illegal aliens given free access ahead of him. Not only that, he'll be paying for their doctor visits with his hard earned tax dollars.

This time, at the end of the cartoon, he won't be chortling with Olive Oil.

Posted by: John Hughes | June 25, 2007 3:58 AM

Carlo Jean-Joseph

You make a good point! Now tell me, how many of those people you cited came into this country illegally? This country is at an all time high for profits for the rich and at an all time low for the middle-class and the poor. Let's take more services away from the elderly who have worked their whole life and paid taxes for 40, 50, and 60 years and just throw them away.

Richard in Orlando

Posted by: Richard | June 25, 2007 8:33 AM

There is mention of Mexicans this, Mexican that. Do you people realize that there are illegals from other countries. Europe, Asia, North and South America and Africa. If you ask me the Mexicans deserves to get whatver freedom they can as I see them as hard workers. Have we forgotten that places like California, New Mexico, Texas just to name a few states was actually Mexico.

You must and when I say must educate your self on this immigration issue. People do have legal working papers and some do have legitimate social security numbers which was issue to them by the immigration department. Most of these people are in a bind because their cases were impeded for some unrealistic or political reason. Yes, they have jobs, own homes, has no criminal background and is definitely living the American dream. Why should all have to suffer for the bad.

I suggest we allow the DHS to do what they do as they have very competent people to handle this issue and persons who are well trained and actually knows what they're doing. Targetting businesses too would not solve the problem as most of these businesses we do need to build the economy. It is just not practical to throws these people out because they entered illegally.

Posted by: allison | June 25, 2007 10:04 AM

Allison - I think the reason you are seeing Mexico in most of the comments is because the people who support this Amnesty bill mention Mexico or Latins in most of their posts. I've been following this comment trail and I can tell you at one point last night a lot of comments were removed for some reason or other.

In fact, I mention Mexico specifically because a few posts pointed out that we should help Mexico so they can help their own people. I disagreed with that since that is not the responsibility of the United States to help a government so corrupt that it won't help their own people.

I think the reason why people are so upset about this Amnesty bill is literally because it takes away from the Citizens of this country. The handful of illegal immigrants who really are paying into our tax system is not as many that are actually draining it.

I don't think Americans would be against immigration reform if the RIGHT bill was being introduced into the Senate. But giving away Amnesty to 20 million is NOT the right answer. Especially when one of the requirements is to pass a background check OR the next business day, whichever comes sooner. Now that's not DHS handling anything...That is Amnesty. That is our government NOT taking the time to research who people are and if they have any criminal background.

Let's not forget that in all actuality if any one country was to stake claim to those states, that it would be SPAIN. Mexico is a direct result of the Mexico War of Independence where they distanced themselves from the Spanish Colonial Rule. See this URL: http://www.pbs.org/kera/usmexicanwar/timeline_flash.html

I'm sorry we disagree on this issue. Obviously many Americans disagree on this because we see or nation slipping into a third world nation where tyranny in our government will soon exist. Maybe you are comfortable with this concept, but I certainly am not.

We must stop this bill from passing if we want the United States of America to remain a great nation. If this bill passes, America as we know it, is over and a new generation of political corruption and slave conditions will exist. This is why many comment about shutting down the businesses who hire illegals. They want this type of slave labor so they can continue to make huge profits, salaries and bonuses while the working poor continue to grow at a rapid pace.

Do some homework about the middle class and the working poor...I think if you saw the real picture, you would be against Amnesty too.

Posted by: Lisa | June 25, 2007 11:18 AM

Allison-Nice try!
You tend to overlook the FACT that the US Government is one of the oldest on the planet! What used to be Mexico, was a different Mexican Government than the one that exists today! We have repeatedly helped the current government and we even compensated them for the lands!-Got a complaint about land deals-Tell it to the Indians who sold Manhatten!

Now Everyone-Mexico or even Iran is not the problem!

WE ARE!

WE allow our Businesses to hire Illegal orkers-Of which a HUGE demand has bloomed!
Legalize the illegals, and they will just need a whole new batch that they do not have to pay Employer Taxes, Benifits and Un-employment on!

WE allow Invaders to drop Babies and reward them with US Citizens and benifits!
About to possibly change with HR-1940:Birthright Citizenship Act-Gotta Love IT!!!

WE fail to force our federal Legislators to Fund enforcement of the Laws already in existance to stop this BS!

WE are the problem!-Hispanics and Mexicans are simply smart enough to take advantage!
Who NEXT?

To the referrences about a Security Threat having 12, 000,000 Invaders illegally here-We have 140,000 US Personel in a Country with 40,000,000, and are reffered to as an Occupying Force!
Who has an Occupying Force where? There are 10 Times as Many Invaders here as we have Troops there! The Invaders here are doing strenuous work that keeps them in top condition while we work at Book Stores and vidio Game Outlets!
Talk about just Rolling Over!
NOW, lets consider all of their Relatives that are also here Legally!
Scary! Does everyone want to let it get Scarier, or nip it in the Bud about Yesterday?

Posted by: RAT-The | June 25, 2007 1:02 PM

RAT-The needs to get a life. I just looked into this and noticed that his continual rants seem to have continued for two days.

Maybe you ought to go check out the doings in Iraq. Your anger can be taken out there.

Posted by: I AM IN YOUR FACE | June 25, 2007 4:32 PM

AMNESTY is an act of foregiveness for treason, reballion and/or mutiny.

Where is the reballion, treason or mutiny?

Posted by: Just Crazy | June 25, 2007 4:34 PM

In who's face-Actually if you have not figured it out yet, I would not be allowed to do anything in Iraq exept retaliate an attack on me! No Thanks! I'd Rather be around to Skin the ferret Ahmadinejad!

Is attacking somebody all you have to say, or was there actually some sort of light on in there?

Seems mighty DIM-ocratic to me!!!

World Behold: RAT!

Posted by: RAT-The | June 25, 2007 10:44 PM

Giving amnesty to all of the illegals is having congress take the easy way out. where was congress when we had 6MM illegals, where was congress when we had 10MM illegals???? Now we have a big issue, and I don't think the government can solve this problem.... Z-Visa's and "tamper proof" ID's----give me a break.... more fraud, and new cottage industries.....control the border and enforce existing laws.... the AZ border is a sieve. they even cross the border when its 110 degrees and every night on the news in Phoenix a "safe house" had been found with 40+ illegals.

Posted by: Bob----Phoenix, AZ | June 26, 2007 12:11 PM

Whatever minor good the Lifeguard of the Senate has done in the past is swamped by his support for every piece of legislation that, in effect, has given amnesty to illegal immigrants. Less than 10 percent of Mexican migrant work agricultural jobs. In fact most have jobs in Mexico. Whether they assemble light bulbs, electrical motors or computers from components made in China, most Mexicans illegally within the U.S, have had jobs in Mexico. It's only because the great NAFTA treaty has allowed corporations to have Mexican based factories. But, as you can expect, the corporations, when a living wage is requested, by laborers, says to its Mexican employees"...we'll move operations to China if your wage demands are permitted by the Mexican government."

Do we need more poor immigrants requiring more of our tax dollars to support their families?

Posted by: tanaS | June 26, 2007 12:40 PM

"Thank God and God Bless America" from Texas that lives less than one hour from the Mexican Border.
The past few months these bogs show how separated out country is on Ethical, Moral issues. "Most of All" it shows the real "Integrity" of our elected officials that are representing the "tax payers" in Washington.

The San Antonio news ran a front page article last week that a large number of people voting in the past local, city, county and state election were "Illegal". The Illegals fraudulently registered to vote using forged identifications (now known as ID theft).

Now, one must ask the question, "How many Illegals are voting in other states? How many of the representatives of those states are responding and reacting to the desire of the Illegals, via voting and polling?

What is really amusing, a local Mexican News Paper "La Voz" (the voice) ran a article in English and Spanish telling the Mexican population that these people are Illegal. They need to return to Mexico and get too America the Right WAY.

Under the cover and behind the scenes throughout America is a very large movement by the Bush family and the other insiders that are supporting this immigration Bill, including our Texas Governor Rick (Jerk) Perry. Is a thing called the Corridor? The Corridor is a transportation system that runs from Mexico to Canada through the Heart of America. It is ten miles wide, with high-speed rail, trucking lanes and private vehicle lanes. There will be not Port of Entry, from Mexico City to Toronto Canada.

Wake Up America use your PC's and research before get hooked into some more political bulls***. Search Texas Corridor see for yourself.

This Corridor is not owned by America it is owned and operated by a South American company from Chili.

Has anyone heard of the North American Union? Look it up!
Then you will understand why Bush is pushing the Immigration Bill, it is the first step for the Corridor.

Now, Stop the Welfare Gave-Away-Programs and the work force will return to America. That's is what the Illegal's wanted it was not Work.

GREAT JOB YESTERDAY BY THE SENATORS WHO STAND BY AMERICA

All the blog's are in and published. The cities, states and the representatives that supported this piece of "Anti-American" legislations are now known.
Simple fix, the taxpayers and voters;
1. "Replace" every elected representative that voted "Yes" on this issue.
2. The Border Patrol knows where the Illegals shop, hang-out and protest. Now Do Your JOB.

Posted by: Spectre | June 29, 2007 6:06 PM

MSN I NIIPET
MSN

Posted by: Bill | June 30, 2007 3:47 PM

MSN I NIIPET
MSN

Posted by: Bill | June 30, 2007 3:47 PM

MSN I NIIPET
MSN

Posted by: Bill | June 30, 2007 3:48 PM

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