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Liberal Groups Defend Climate Change Vote

A coalition of liberal interest groups is launching ads in 17 congressional districts over the July 4 weekend that thanks members of Congress for their vote in favor of President Obama's climate change legislation, a direct counter to a series of attacks on that same vote being sponsored by national Republicans.

Environmental Defense Fund, Americans United and Vote Vets are sponsoring the commercials, which will run in the following members' districts: Reps. Betsy Markey (Colo.), Allen Boyd (Fla.), Alan Grayson (Fla.), Suzanne Kosmas (Fla.), Baron Hill (Ind), Debbie Halvorson (Ill.), Ben Chandler (Ky.), Frank Kratovil (Md.), Gary Peters (Mich.), Mark Schauer (Mich.), Paul Hodes (N.H.), Dan Maffei (N.Y.), Mary Jo Kilroy (Ohio), Zack Space (Ohio), Tom Perriello (Va.), Gabrielle Giffords (Ariz.) and Steve Kagen (Wis.).

Here's a sample of the ads running in the districts above:

The release of these ads is evidence that the Democratic third party groups have grown increasingly well organized since President Obama took office roughly six months ago. The ability to funnel money to these groups and organize a coordinated message is a reflection of the stepped up coordination efforts being led by a handful of longtime Washington hands including Democratic consultant Erik Smith, who is with the group Common Purpose Project.

By Chris Cillizza  |  July 2, 2009; 1:26 PM ET
Categories:  Democratic Party , House  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: The Most Important Number in Politics Today
Next: Kristol vs Schmidt, Round 2

Comments

By the time we realized there were no weapons of mass destruction it was too late.
By the time we realize there really IS carbon induced global warming it will be too late again.
Never,never trust a Republican.

Posted by: seemstome | July 3, 2009 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Goldman Sachs has been behind almost every "bubble" in the US economy including the housing bubble according to a well researched article in Rolling Stone by Matt Taibbi. Now Goldman Sachs is positioned to make another killing on an even bigger scam worse that anything Medoff could ever imagine, the Waxman-Markey Climate bill. President Obama appointed one of Goldman Sach's lobbyists, Mark Patterson, to Treasury Dept Chief of Staff making one question whether President Obama's support for the Waxman-Markey Climate has more to do with the big payoff Goldman Sachs will get from carbon offset trading than anything else. Especially since credible analysts are reporting that the bill will have little or no impact on co2 emissions. So why isn't the media demanding that President Obama and his Goldman Sach cronies in the White House tell them the real reason they are so gung ho about getting the bill passed when it will do little if anything to reduce co2, result in higher energy costs for everyone and the loss of millions. of jobs Does President Obama have a suicide wish for the economy? By the way "green jobs" are just another scam. If the "Green Jobs" President Obama was proposing were so great, they would pay for themselves and would not need to be involuntarily paid for by the blood, sweat and tears of the already over burdened tax payer.


Posted by: dhobi2361 | July 3, 2009 11:34 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps this is pedantic, but gravity is not a theory; it exists. We can measure it, characterize it, and construct testable theories that predict how it behaves. But, gravity itself isn't a theory...

==

It can be measured, but it can't be explained. The science behind evolution is on much firmer ground than the science behind gravity, despite the fact that gravity is part of everyday experience and evolution is unobservable except for bacteria, and in a few cases of species with short reproductive cycles like insects. Speciation is all but unobservable in human lifetimes.

Electromagnetism, the nuclear forces, these have experimental evidence to support. Gravity is for all intents unexplained.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 3, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps this is pedantic, but gravity is not a theory; it exists. We can measure it, characterize it, and construct testable theories that predict how it behaves. But, gravity itself isn't a theory...

Posted by: Kili | July 3, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

scrivener: if this is supposed to be funny, it's not.

If you actually believe this crap, then you should go see a psychiatrist. People are getting paid to prevent you from, what, getting out the word on "energy weapons?" That's nuts.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 3, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

CYBER-EFFLUVIA POSES RISK TO POLITICAL BLOG CLIMATE

• YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK?

• Will WaPo sleuths get to the bottom of who's financing this 24/7 "Fix" spam job?

• Are the anti-propaganda statutes worth the paper they're written on?

• Or will the "hits" just keep on comin' -- on Uncle Sam's tab?


http://NowPublic.com/scrivener -- "Fix" taxpayer advocate

Posted by: scrivener50 | July 3, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

@FairlingtonBlade: What the study of scientific method has left me with is an extreme reluctance to use a word like "proof." Every scrap of hard-won scientific knowledge represents an increase in confidence, never proof.

But I would disagree on laws. One can have a law e.g. the inverse square relationship without the underlying explanation being solid.

It's awkward to speak of science with the untrained, for reasons you seem to grasp at least as well as I, and probably better ... and very hard to be consistent. Accuracy requires us to refer to gravity as a theory, and evolution as well, and there is no conflict to the trained ear in the buzzwords of scientific caution.

But to the untrained the idea that gravity is a theory in the same sense as evolution seems absurd; gravity is part of experience, evolution is slow enough as to be unobservable, Peppered Moths and bacteria aside. So in our scrupulous caution we leave the door open for liars and fools to perpetuate the lie that evolution is somehow in doubt, as though there remains room for intelligent design and other follies.

This bothers me endlessly.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 11:56 PM | Report abuse

@phoenixresearch - Sorry to burst your bubble, but "science" isn't composed of "laws". Take gravity for example. Newtonian physics works quite well. Unless you get close to the speed of light. Or strong acceleration. I am a physicist who recognizes he treads in the shadows of giants. But even they knew there are no laws.

It is an unfortunate that THEORY has become an explitive. All we have are theories. Sadly, that's been reduced to a hypothesis in public perception.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | July 2, 2009 9:34 PM | Report abuse

There's a lot of economists who think a carbon tax method is a better approach. The RECLAIM program here in Southern California - a cap and trade approach for reducing NOx - was ineffective. Not only does a trade-based approach open up lovely opportunities for market manipulation, the allowances under RECLAIM weren't real property rights - which led to some huge extra costs when the program was abandoned.

The administration has some great economists, but I really wish they would be transparent about the real risks of a cap and trade, so it could be discussed. Both Democrats and Republicans have, at different times, generated carbon tax approaches, but they seem to die.

Here's a good debate on the two approaches, presented by the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists: http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/roundtables/carbon-tax-vs-cap-and-trade

Posted by: Kili | July 2, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Who would have thought some flunky barely employable C++ writer would be so much smarter than Kuhn?

==

Thomas Kuhn lost any right to be taken as an authority on science with a single sentence.

After writing that the development of science is supposedly a process of refinement coming every closer to the actual truth, he wrote

"I see no evidence of this"

With that personal touch of conceit he lost any right to be taken seriously, expressing the belief that science is like the journey of an escaped ferret, wandering puroselessly and aimless from one model to another.

I don't care what else he wrote. Just like Ron Paul and his "jealous little men," that sentence defined him as a fool.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Also, AH only had one er lump

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 7:54 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, CF8, MikeB, DDAWD, shrink2, mark_in_austin. I think I actually learned some things from reading this comment section for a change.

Of course, I didn't need to know that Hitler was coprophagic. Yuck.

Posted by: mnteng | July 2, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

How many deceptions have been pulled off by throwing the word "theory" at the uneducated?

How many religious people get an easy out on evolution by calling it a "theory" in the same sense as a "theory" about a crime?

"I have a theory that the butler did it"

versus

"the theory of evolution"

same spelling, same pronunciation, completely different meanings. The second one is more like "model." Evolution is as close to "proven" as anything can be, at least as much as atoms, and people have been vaporized by successful application of the "atomic theory."

Quantum mechanics has been verified out to literally hundreds of standard deviations by Bell's Inequality, but good luck explaining THAT to anyone.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

LEt me educate you moonbat since you have veered so far off the path of truth.

All science is composed of theory. ...

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

-----------------------------

No, Zouk, maybe on your Fantasy World, but much of science is composed of Laws as well, Gravity (which in another sense you do not possess) among them.

So, Bubba, you are wrong yet again. Scientific theory is defined differently than your fatuous take on the matter -- certainly on Evolution, among others.

At least in your ignorance and partisan pandering you are consistent. You seem so convinced of your own brilliance that Reality cannot penetrate what passes for your thought processes.

You are entertaining though, in a train-wreck kind of way.

Posted by: phoenixresearch | July 2, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Mark and Chris. The PDF should make for some good holiday reading.

==

Is everyone off tomorrow? Gee I might be as well, I really ought to check the calendar.

I have a new text on quantum superposition to curl up with, just mathy enough to be a challenge but not so mathy as to be an impossible one. There have been a lot of new books lately on decoherence, and on why we perceive a singular reality in a world where the rule is superposition of states that we regard as mutually exclusive.

Before I get to them though I'm re-reading "The Silmarillion," one of my favorite books of all time, more enjoyable than LotR.

Everyone enjoy the ngày lễ.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Mark and Chris. The PDF should make for some good holiday reading.

I think I can get sappy once in a while. For all the monuments around the world. Taj Mahal, Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, these are all beautiful, but ostentatious displays of wealth and power usually dedicated to self or a significant other.

Then you've got the Statue of Liberty which is a monument to freedom and the ideals of taking care of the hungry and tired. Obviously we have faltered a lot. We've been criminal in our treatment of the poor in this country and gays are still struggling to have the same basic rights as straights. But the Statue can serve both as a reminder of our past as well as a compass for our future.

Have a good weekend, people.

Posted by: DDAWD | July 2, 2009 6:54 PM | Report abuse

If you want to doubt evolution, you need to at least come up with a good reason to do so. It's not enough to simply say "it's only a theory." That entails a misunderstanding of how scientists use the word "theory."

As far as theories go, evolution is an incredibly robust one. With the explosion of genetics knowledge that has been garnered since the time of Darwin, evolution is pretty much unassailable. I'd say you'd have an easier time trying to disprove gravity.

Posted by: DDAWD | July 2, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

_______

The behavior of certain politicians would deny the existence of evolution of ideas since the year 1200 ad.

Posted by: Martial | July 2, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

mib27: email me, look forward to meeting up. BTW it's Vietnamese, not Thai, though I know some good Thai places

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

As far as theories go, evolution is an incredibly robust one. With the explosion of genetics knowledge that has been garnered since the time of Darwin, evolution is pretty much unassailable. I'd say you'd have an easier time trying to disprove gravity.

Posted by: DDAWD

==

Evolution is corroborated from many unrelated disciplines and there is no reason to doubt it other than rhetoric coming from people of demonstrated scientific illiteracy.

Gravity on the other hand .. its existence perfectly provable, but an underlying theory remains elusive. General Relativity is just an interpretation. The graviton (the spin-2 boson that would be gravity's mediator) is at best decades from detection.

The weakest of the four forces, it'll be the one that wins out in the end. The meek shall inherit the earth .. and most of the rest of the universe's matter too.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Everyone gets an expert rating, today! This was the best collection of insults I have read to date. As I commented elsewhere, sort of like Dave Berry and Terry Pratchett going at "it". I laughed until tears streamed down my face. I am an amateur by way of comparison. KOZ, chris, you two are hilarious! I'm off to see my children for the 4th. chris, I'll be up your way in two weeks. Let's do lunch at your Thai place. If you get down this way before, we are scheduled to go target shooting at Mazama (hey, JakeD, did you know that chris can shoot, too? ). Bye all!

Posted by: mibrooks27 | July 2, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

shrink2: I doubt that any of the trolls know what coprophagic means.

Funny, because it describes them so well.

Hitler was one. A copro, I mean.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and by the way, that oceanic methane is extremely sensitive to temperature. The ocean floor is a constant 4°C (where water reaches its highest density due to hydrogen bonding and aggregation), and a very small change in ocean temperature will release a vast amount of methane over a short span of time.

At that point it's game over because there will be positive feedback warming the earth even faster.

And it'll be game over for us, since the oxygen level in the atmosphere will halve, reacting as it will with all that methane.

Animals that live at the highest elevations will move to sea level, and animals that need 19% O2 (us) will perish.

Birds, with their efficient lungs, will fill many mammalian niches.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

If you want to doubt evolution, you need to at least come up with a good reason to do so. It's not enough to simply say "it's only a theory." That entails a misunderstanding of how scientists use the word "theory."

As far as theories go, evolution is an incredibly robust one. With the explosion of genetics knowledge that has been garnered since the time of Darwin, evolution is pretty much unassailable. I'd say you'd have an easier time trying to disprove gravity.

Posted by: DDAWD | July 2, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Happy 4th, shrink and MikeB. Shrink, I enjoyed the conversation about buying the opium crop. We should run it by Central Command. They would have to deploy more protection details for the poor farmers who sold Uncle Sam the crop, I am sure.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 2, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

Doh, now you are gonna laugh,

I have a BA in Biological Oceanography from the UW. It was a perfect premed degree - David Stockman killed the NOAA grant I was to live on, so I applied to the medical school. Then I wanted to get paid to think, not to not think, so psychiatry was the only specialty possible.

Guess what we studied out at Ocean Station Papa - carbon and nitrogen flows in the deep water column.

Fecal pellets, I tell you what, coprophagic animals are going to be our salvation.

No trolls, I am not talking about you.

Posted by: shrink2 | July 2, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

TTFN moonbats. Much better today. I have actually dragged you kicking and screaming to Popper, Kuhn and DesCartes. could not have done it with drivl around.

there may be hope for you yet.
Enjoy your Liberty and pay tribute to our great ancestors.

Before the Liberal Fascists take them away.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

mibrooks27, much as I enjoy the
yo mamma jokes going on here,

we,

the 5 and 6 year old and I are heading down to the river, the Klickitat sandspit. The stick with a string and a worm remark inspired me!

You know right now it is as hot as it gets here and my work is a 0400 to 1600 thing.

Happy 4th people.

Posted by: shrink2 | July 2, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Evolution is "liberal political dogma?"

Since evolution takes place at every level of magnitude from the Planck scale (pair-production to stabilize spacetime) to supergalaxies (formation controlled by feedback), it's safe to say that REALITY HAS A LIBERAL BIAS.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Chrisfox, I've never heard of lacing the coastlines with soluble minerals. Can you explain what this is all about?

Posted by: DDAWD

==

Sure.

When it comes to absorbing CO2, the oceans have the land beat all to hell.

But most of the ocean as like a vast desert, with too low a mineral content to support algal growth. Most of the life in the oceans is on the coasts, the eastern ones more than the western, as ocean currents bring up minerals from the ocean bottom and serve as the basis for algal growth.

It's technologically feasible to supplement that mineral upwelling by dropping potash and crop residue.

The problem here is that algae isn't particularly refractory, that it dies and rots and returns its carbon to the atmosphere, but if higher elements of the food chain had time to grow, they would "sequester" the carbon longer.

Bringing up more minerals from the ocean floor isn't a great idea because we would release a lot of methane in doing so, and methane is worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas.

The point is that reducing the [CO2] is a two-pronged affair, reducing emissions and increasing removal.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Happy 4th, Ddawd. On soluble minerals and carbon sequestration:

http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/proceedings/01/carbon_seq/6c2.pdf

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 2, 2009 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Chrisfox, I've never heard of lacing the coastlines with soluble minerals. Can you explain what this is all about?

Posted by: DDAWD | July 2, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

Doubting evolution denotes an idiot unworthy of consideration. Period.

Posted by: chrisuxcox

I would not want to reign on your parade, but the first modern philosopher of Science would disagree strenuously. He famously deduced:

Cogito, ergo sum.


so who's the idiot? doubting lies at the heart of science. you simply could not be further from the truth. accepting liberal political dogma as "settled" truth is as opposite of science as one could go.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

They were good at copy-pasting the latest gimmicks, slavishly following formatting guidelines, but solving real problems? No ability at all

you have described the Pelosi congress to a T.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

The moonbat reverts to his usual ignorant reply.

you have not read...
you did not go to college....
you do not have a job....
you are too stupid to understand.....

then he claims to have his own special definitions of words, as before. He also must be keeping his very own set of facts from us. Who would have thought some flunky barely employable C++ writer would be so much smarter than Kuhn?
Yet when challenged by an authority we get this:

on the one hand :Sure, evolution is a theory. "

On the other hand: "I've met educated people who stated with conviction that evolution is "only a theory.""

Are you an Obimbo speech writer?

then you go on to utterly confuse hypothesis with theory. I urge you to pick up a dictionary and straighten yourself out before you continue to discredit yourself completely (as if you could sink any lower).

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

I have a job that is supposed to get very busy "real soon now," been hearing that for two months. Maybe in a week or two I'll be swamped with work, right now it takes me like an hour a day to fix my bugs. My predecessor was let go for low initiative, I'm at the opposite end of that scale.

There are a lot of Indians here but I don't think any of them are H1-Bs. At least they're competent. I worked with a lot of TCS employees at MS who really didn't know anything. They were good at copy-pasting the latest gimmicks, slavishly following formatting guidelines, but solving real problems? No ability at all. Try, catch, throw, try catch throw.

Look at how much Windows Mobile is losing ground since they moved most of the work to the IDC. Twenty five layers of abstraction on a PORTABLE DEVICE.

Try, catch, throw.

Idiots.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

king_of_zouk - I suspect that most of the posters on this forum are engineers or programmers. I know chrisfox is. I am required to be "here from 10:00 until 4:00 to fix crashes and spend a lot of time on this forum when nothing happens. I do my real work in the evenings when I do data cleansing, fixing the (*#$_(#$*( stupid mistakes clerks make, and writing and running reports. I get to do those from home. Another poster here has a similar job, maintaining servers. Most of us are doing fine, but all of us know one or more truly good people who has lost a job to an Indian H1-B workers and think it should stop. I, for one, would rather wok as a developer, instead of a brain dead DBA. That work is challenging and would keep me busy for 12 hours a day instead of wasting time here. But American business, in it's wisdom and folly, has seen fit to give those jobs to barely competent Indian guest workers... and we get Vista and Explorer and WIndows 7 as a result :(

Posted by: mibrooks27 | July 2, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Zouk, you've never read Karl Popper, that's obvious.

Anyone concerned enough with philosophy of science would know that "theory" in vulgar parlance means what "hypothesis" means in scientific parlance.

Sure, evolution is a theory. So are atoms.

Doubting evolution denotes an idiot unworthy of consideration. Period.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

LEt me educate you moonbat since you have veered so far off the path of truth.

All science is composed of theory. It is a philosophical assumption that no theory can be proven correct, only incorrect. for that reason the "theory of evolution" is just that, a theory waiting to be demonstrated to be wrong or usurped by a better theory in a large paradigm shift.

you seem to throw this term around without having any idea what it means, a tactic you are now becoming known for. the paradigm shift comes when new data is inconsolable with the existing theory, such as the MM experiemts were to Newton. enter einstein.

similarly, the global warming hysteria that passes for science among the undereduczted and politically indoctrinated has many shortcomings, especially a bad coherence within the model of the data and theoyr. for example, the CO2 is stil going up but the temperature is coming down. Bad theory.

the sunpsot activity is a much better predictor of warming/cooling cycles but this leaves Dems helpless to raise taxes so it is ignored. No paradigm shift when Al is raking in all that cash.

Of course science is uncertain, it MUST always be as demonstrated by the uncertainty principle. I know you Libs prefer to have your knowledge sppon fed by the ACLU and Daily Kos but in this case, you will just have to track down anomolies in the data and think up a new theory.

I know its hard work. Perhaps a Republican will do it for you. They are mush brighter anyway.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, but the blivet that the House passed isn't going to do much except make Obum's friends rich. Nobody read the 1300 pages of BS, which tells me that those who voted for it are bunch of wussy lemmings, or just plain dishonest liberals.
As for the claim about science, its also BS, especially when the liberal snake oil salesmen trot out the "consensus" crap. There are plenty of scientists who say that global weather runs in cycles, and man isn't the only culprit.
Science isn't "consensus" driven, only politicians are,...and in this scam, they're dishonest liberal ones.

Posted by: LarryG62 | July 2, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

I don't think any one issue is going to do as much long-term harm to the credibility of the GOP as its anti-science bias.

Posted by: nodebris

==

Were it only so. But in my experience most Americans are afraid of science, and they've been successfully indoctrinated in the idea that science is uncertain. We can include Thomas Kuhn, creator of the phrase "paradigm shift" among those allowing this fallacy to persist.

Too many Americans believe science to be a collection of controversies coming no closer to the truth, and they would rather believe that than accept their responsibility to learn more about what makes the cosmos work.

I've met educated people who stated with conviction that evolution is "only a theory."

And millions of dollars spent by the oil companies have left the impression that the science behind global warming is somehow in doubt. That a few scientists who really ought to know better jump on this bandwagon for some attention doesn't help much either.

I place more hope on H5N1 jumping species and dramatically reducing population than I place in an aggressive attack on emissions. Draconian, but more hopeful.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

We don't call them witches anymore. now they're Wiccans.

We don't call it warming anymore. Now its climate change.

I must have missed something, I thought change was good. I sure hope it is. I sure hope Obimbo saves my job and I don't have to go back to code writing in the basement to pay for my KY.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

I think the idea was to see how many spelling and grammatical mistakes he could fit into one little paragraph.

It's amazing, the idiots that are out there.

Posted by: DDAWD

==

There's a good reason that hiring managers reject résumés with obvious spelling errors .. people who can't spell or use proper grammar usually don't reason very well.

The correlation between right-wing political affiliation and bad grammar/spelling is not a small one.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

I don't think any one issue is going to do as much long-term harm to the credibility of the GOP as its anti-science bias. Very soon, people will be looking back in awe-struck disbelief, that a modern, scientific culture could spawn and nurture such a pack of luddite know-nothings. It will appear unbelievable. Like the Salem Witch Trials and McCarthyism.

Posted by: nodebris | July 2, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Most egregious, fails to produce the crucial document which would prove his dubious eligibility to be a valid, lawful, and legitimate President of the United States-his birth certificate-all the while paying over a million-dollars to his attorneys to block the ongoing investigations of this vital issue.

Posted by: king_of_zouk

==

hahahahahaha yeah this "vital issue"

look out fer them black heely-copters, zouk

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea fired a barrage of short-range missiles off its east coast Thursday, a possible prelude to the launch of a long-range missile toward Hawaii over the July Fourth holiday.

what has weakness wrought?

Posted by: king_of_zouk

==

"A U.S. intelligence official confirmed the test firings and said there are "no indications whatsoever" of an impending long-range missile test."

You can come out from under the bed now, zouk.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/02/nkorea.missiles/index.html

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

"hey jmamaxwell, is there a point hiding in there? Or do you only post to shoehorn in a few thick-witted jokes?"

I think the idea was to see how many spelling and grammatical mistakes he could fit into one little paragraph.

It's amazing, the idiots that are out there.

Posted by: DDAWD | July 2, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

People are not only afraid-they are disgusted. Disgusted as the "president":

Goes on extended apologize-for-America tours to Europe and the Middle East.
Genuflects like an obsequies toady to an Arab potentate.
Condones the Iranian dictator building nuclear weapons but slams Israel for building housing.
Stays mute for 10 days as the same Iranian madman incarcerates and slaughters protestors, at the same time as he (Obama) eliminates funding for pro-democracy programs inside Iran.
Sides with the Marxists Castro, Chavez, and Ortega in lamenting the coup that deposed Honduran President Manuel Zelaya.
Attacks those who fight terrorism while letting terrorists go free.
Gives multimillions to Hamas terrorists while Americans are out-of-work and starving.
Puts us on the path to a European-dominated (and failed) financial-regulatory system.
Threatens our safety and security, as Jim Talent and Mackenzie Eaglen have documented, by cutting $1.4 billion from missile defense (in both America and Europe), ending F-22 production despite the objections of senior Air Force leadership, ending C-17 cargo aircraft production, and delaying Army modernization and the Navy's CG(X) Cruiser Program.
Makes end-runs around the Constitution with an avalanche of Executive Orders and the appointment-ala Stalin-of over 20 Czars.
Manipulates the spineless, now state-run leftwing media (ala Putin and Chavez), to spread his hate-America message.
Proves daily that appeasement to America's enemies runs thick in his Leftist blood.
Demonizes any and all dissenting voices in his push to obliterate our First Amendment right to Free Speech.
Pushes with equal fanaticism to deprive Americans of their Second Amendment right to bear arms.
Pretends-against empirical evidence-that his utterly failed $787 billion-dollar "job-creating" Stimulus Bill, $800-billionTarp bill, $417-billion appropriations bill (with thousands of earmarks), Bailout travesty and budget have all worked!
Continues to flout the U.S. Constitution, as David Crockett has spelled out, by violating the law in seizing control of GM and Chrysler without proper authorization from Congress as well as seizing corporations and presuming to set the salaries of their leaders; using the community organizers from ACORN for rank political purposes; pandering to sworn enemies (treason, anyone?); compromising alliances with our tried-and-true allies Israel, Britain, France and Germany while implementing policies that favor Hamas, Iran, Egypt, Syria, and other terrorist hotbeds; and illegally firing Inspectors-General investigating the corruption of his cronies.
Most egregious, fails to produce the crucial document which would prove his dubious eligibility to be a valid, lawful, and legitimate President of the United States-his birth certificate-all the while paying over a million-dollars to his attorneys to block the ongoing investigations of this vital issue.
As readers of my articles have read before, this is the short list!

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

shrink2 - "...little boys..."? If they are as young as they sound, head up the Deschutes to Billy Chinook lake. Lots of easily caught landlocked Sockeye (Kokanee) . The lower Deschutes can be rough and the fish are big and wary - Steelhead and 20" plus trout that have been caught and released so many times they study flies before taking. The Columbia, down by you, also has some pretty good cat fish populations this time of year and all you need is a stick and a worm to catch them. Up the Columbia a bit you will encounter Walleye. Try the confluence of the Columbia and the John Day. The water is slower and safer for your children and they will catch enough fish to keep you running (and you wont feel so bad about not being able to fish yourself). Enjoy your children! My fondest memories are of fishing with my two sons and daughter. My "little girl", now 22, is still my best hunting buddy, even though she is a much much better shot than I am. God, am I proud of every one of them!

Posted by: mibrooks27 | July 2, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Is that to erase all the evidence that Obama was born outside the country?

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

"We should be looking a lot more at sequesting carbon, one way to do that would be to fertilize the coastlines with soluble minerals; another way would be to plant trees like mad, in every available space, and place legal restrictions on cutting them down."

Can you elaborate on the soluble minerals thing?

Posted by: DDAWD | July 2, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea fired a barrage of short-range missiles off its east coast Thursday, a possible prelude to the launch of a long-range missile toward Hawaii over the July Fourth holiday.

what has weakness wrought?

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Thank you millbrooks.

Funny place to get Summer outing advice, but I'll take it.

I've got two little boys just about ready for this kind of thing.

We live 20 minutes from the Deschutes, near where the Klickitat (which is awesome, but of course, has its fish ladder/hatchery combo) joins the Columbia.

Cheers

Posted by: shrink2 | July 2, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

hey jmamaxwell, is there a point hiding in there? Or do you only post to shoehorn in a few thick-witted jokes?

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

jmsmaxwell - What you propose is what has been done in Sweden and Norway AND IT WORKS! In Sweden, if you damage a river or stream, they padlock your door and put you out of business. They also don't allow fraudsters to advertise on national television. Here some fraudulent scheme or other is on every night on CNN, FOX, MSNBC, et al. Either we tolerate polluters or we don't. If we don't, then "Cap and Trade" is a silly waste of time.

Posted by: mibrooks27 | July 2, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

What I do not understand is the liberal left wingers and earth firsters are trying to use technology that is unreasable or does not exist to produce power. Photo electric requires massive amounts of water, which is becoming scarace in many areas, wind power would only work in washington dc which has plent of hot air all the time. Nuclear power which would meet the requiements makes the greenies have panick attacks and dripple all over themselves. Oh by the way the north east where kennedy and the liberals live wiill not allow wind in any form, it might effect their view of the ocean? We have massive coal and petrolem reserves available to us but cannot use it because of the conservatonist who refuse to even discuss this. There are ways to cut the polution of coal by using scrubbers to cut emissions. We could also offer tax incentives to those companies who actuall cut their emissions. Do not let them sell their carbon footprint to poluters. If companies do not meet emission standards then increas their tax burden and lower the tax on those that do. How bout that for an idea. Oh I forgot the goverment wants the extra tax dollars they really dont care about cutting polution unless they are making profits at it. How bout those in congress who will benefit from the new polution rules like the speaker and others in congress??

Posted by: jmsmaxwell | July 2, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

shrink2 - Yes. The Henry's Fork, Firehole, Madison, lots of rivers in Idaho and Montana. In Oregon, the Deschutes, Blitzen, McKenzie, Williamson, and the Metolius (for now). You can catch a 10 pound Bull Trout or an 8 pound Rainbow in the Metolius. That isn't some wistful dream, either. If you fish hard and know what you are doing, that is a realistic expectation. It is in any of these waters. When the present developments are done, however, you can write off the McKenzie, Metolius, and Blitzen. Wealthy Democratic contributers have the ear of this Administration and these spoiled hypocrites will pave over paradise. They are no different than Gov. Sanford - morality, right and wrong, "the rules", don't apply to them because they are so much better than the rest of us. We need a French Revolution, complete with guillotines!

Posted by: mibrooks27 | July 2, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Cap and trade has the advantage of including both carrot and stick, while a tax is only the stick.

But one idea left out of all this; getting polluters to reduce their CO2 emissions is only one way to go about it. If emissions can be offset by sequestering carbon then it's exactly as though the emissions weren't made. Some industries might be very hard-pressed to reduce emissions, it might be technologically infeasible ("clean coal" is nothing but a marketing gimmick, there really is no way to do it).

We should be looking a lot more at sequesting carbon, one way to do that would be to fertilize the coastlines with soluble minerals; another way would be to plant trees like mad, in every available space, and place legal restrictions on cutting them down.

Right now more trees are a lot more important than another strip mall.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Liberals do not have a monopoly on virtue, nor conservatives on vice. The Obama/Democratic cap and trade bill is a sell-out to special interest groups, as well as being a weak environmental bill, which will do little, if anything, to reduce global warming over at least the next twenty years.

There are some liberals and progressives in the Democratic party in Congress, but they are a minority in an overall right-center party, subservient to special interest groups only somewhat less than the GOP.

I thought Obama, as a candidate, promised not to let special interest groups dominate the political system. But then Obama, the candidate, made a lot of promises, many of which have been or soon will be discarded.

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | July 2, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Actually there are some Democrats which oppose this bill (Assuming this is the Cap and trade one I think it is). Basically the EPA right now has the right to regulate some of these pollutants and right now intends to do so now that we don't have a Republican in office.

The cap and trade legislation would remove the EPA's ability to do so. I know cap and trade can be an effective means of pollution control, but the devil is in the details and I don't think the American people know enough details to figure this one out one way or the other.

Posted by: pdxgeek | July 2, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Alexandria, Va. -- Prosecutors are playing audiotapes of former Louisiana congressman William Jefferson talking with a woman about business deals he is accused of brokering in exchange for bribes.Jefferson's conversations with businesswoman Lori Mody were recorded in 2005 in restaurants in Washington and northern Virginia. (Snip) federal agents eventually videotaped her giving Jefferson a suitcase stuffed with $100,000 cash at a hotel.

and this is one of the more honest Libs.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

All we can agree on, Zouk, is that you seemed confused on the definition of meddle.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | July 2, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

@vbhoomes - Finally turned Rush on, eh?

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | July 2, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Help me out here. President Obama immediately "meddles" in the affairs of Honduras, denouncing a military coup, the intent of which is to preserve the country's constitution, but when it comes to Iran's fraudulent election and the violent repression of demonstrators who wanted their votes counted, the president initially vacillates and equivocates. Are we expected to accept this as a consistent foreign policy?

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Good rule of thumb: whatever the GOP wants, do the opposite. Whatever they warn against, do. Whatever they support, avoid.

If the GOP says that addressing global warming will hurt the economy, you can know with complete confidence that it will help the economy.

If the GOP says that "interfering with the marketplace" requiring fuel efficiency by law is bad, then interfere away, and look forward to the Saudis and Iranians getting desperate for money.

Give the GOP track record on prediction, it's safe to always do the opposite.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

ANTI-SCIENCE FUNDAMENTALISTS

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

By that you must mean the Al gore people. the ones who don't think, don't question. you know, anti-science.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

milbrooks27,

Last night in Hood River I went to a book launch/reading by Scott Sadil.

Lost in Wyoming is a book about fly fishing, fishers of men, and the flash of the mysterious tail (so said the flyer).

It was annoying how he went on about hatchery fish and etc. Are there any blue ribbon streams left in the lower 48?

Posted by: shrink2 | July 2, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

HURRAY FOR MODERN SCIENCE, HURRAY FOR THE NATIONAL REJECTION OF ANTI-SCIENCE FUNDAMENTALISTS!

HURRAY FOR THE NEW JOBS AND NEW INDUSTRY THE US WILL LEAD THE GLOBE IN!

HURRAY FOR THE DEJECTION OF THOSE WHO MAKE MONEY OFF OF OIL!

HURRAY FOR THE FAILURE OF THE NEOCON DENIAL OF SCIENCE AND PROGRESS!!!

GO PRESIDENT OBAMA AND GO USA!

America is becoming the global leader in clean energy thanks to you!

Posted by: onestring | July 2, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

chrisfox8 is completely correct. Moreover, what he doesn't say, pollution particulates have wrecked great harm on forests, rovers, and lakes. Coal fueled power plants in England completely destroyed the commercial fishing industry in Sweden and Norway, worth in excess o 20 billion dollars annually, because the spawning streams were made so acetic that they could not support juvenile fish. In Oregon, my state, the entire Fall Rover, a trophy trout fishery that brought millions of tourist dollars in every year, was completely wiped out when the Bush Administration issued "long term leases" to wealthy individuals who promptly built just 20 homes on the headwaters but bulldozed the debris from that construction into the river. The same thing is now being planned on the famous Metolius drainage -- the only difference being that the issuing Administration is Obama's. When will we learn that the economic value of a clean environment far exceeds the value of a stinking industrial dump.

Posted by: mibrooks27 | July 2, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Here's Lib science:
Hypothesis: Warming leads to cooling

Statement: warming leads to warming
True

Why does that not disprove the hypothesis.

A: because warming leads to cooling, warming leads to warming, warming leads to status quo, warming leads to wetness, warming leads to dryness,, warming leads to snow, warming leads to rain, warming leads to sunshine.

What a great theory. Can't be disproved and accounts for everything.

Except for one thing. the philosophy of science. Popper is rolling in his grave.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

for example, why does global warming lead to cooling?

==

Because it shifts the path of warming ocean currents, DUMMY

Look at England and Iceland, note their latitudes. Identical. Ever wonder why England is so much warmer than Iceland, DUMMY?

Won't be much longer.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

A science denier would say that the matter is settled and no further thought on the matter is needed. In other words, the Lib position.

Actual science demands we investigate the holes in any theory until it can be included in a better theory.


for example, why does global warming lead to cooling? Hmmm. sounds like a pretty big hole. Why does CO2 increase not correlate to warming? Oooppps.

and just what is this very nicely correlated sunspot thing and how can we tax it?

but let the Libs prattle on about how "scientific" they are for swallowing the political line hook, line and stinker. funny thing about Lib science - no math, logic or facts required.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 2, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Why does the GOP support and repeat the proven false claims of anti Climate Change groups which are funded by Oil companies? Exxon paid the National Center for Policy Analysis in Dallas, $75,000, and the Washington, D.C.-based Heritage Foundation, $50,000 despite a public pledge to sever financial ties with these types of groups. (Reported July 2nd by Climatewire).

Why does the GOP continue to claim as fact a MIT study saying of $3,100 for families for cap and trade which the MIT study author John Reilly says is wrong in so many ways and should not be used since the estimated cost is less the 1/13th of that?

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2009/06/climate-and-the-3100-lie-detector?cmpid=WNL-Wednesday-July1-2009

“ In two recent letters to House Republican Leader John Boehner, MIT’s Reilly asked that the NRCC stop using the “misleading” figure, noting that MIT's estimates are less than one thirtieth of what the NRCC is claiming. “A correct estimate of that cost … for the average household just in 2015 is about $80 per family, or $65 if more appropriately stated in present value terms discounted at an annual 4% rate,” he said. “
Why are Conservatives actually Liberal towards Big Businesses like Oil, Coal, and Wall Street Madoffs, and only Conservative when it comes to protecting citizens and smaller businesses like Renewable Energy companies which had the greatest Job growth of any industry over the last eight years?

PEW charitable trusts find that Clean Energy Economy Generates Significant Job Growth:

http://www.pewtrusts.org/news_room_detail.aspx?id=53254

Posted by: liveride | July 2, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I told a troll, "I got a haircut."

She said, "I don't see which one you got cut, so stop lying."

Posted by: shrink2 | July 2, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

sheesh Chris, you are indefatigable.

I am on call all day every day, so I get to yak on the internet when there are no crisis.

Your take on autistic detailism is right on.
It made me lol.

Posted by: shrink2 | July 2, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Another science denier.

Hey, vbh, your side lost. Take it a little more like a man, would you?

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

With ABC and now the Washington Post fully in bed with the Obama administration, it is now correct to refer the previous MSM as State Control Media. Edward R. Murrow, you sould be happy you didn't live too see this day.

Posted by: vbhoomes | July 2, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who thinks we should cook the earth to keep the inflation rate down should be turned into fertilizer.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 2, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

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