Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
About Chris Cillizza  |  On Twitter: The Fix and The Hyper Fix  |  On Facebook  |  On YouTube  |  RSS Feeds RSS Feed

RNC vs. MoveOn.org

The Republican National Committee is prepping GOP members of Congress for MoveOn.org's latest onslaught -- the liberal group's plans to deliver 400,000 signed petitions to Capitol Hill and to 244 lawmakers' offices around the country tomorrow demanding the withdrawal of U.S. military forces from Iraq by the end of 2006.

"The left wing organization MoveOn.org has announced its intentions to conduct events and activities in your states and districts in opposition to the war in Iraq," reads the memo. "It's imperative their efforts are met with a swift response, exposing their liberal views far out of the mainstream."

Tom Matzzie, the Washington director of MoveOn, disputed that characterization in an interview today. "I would challenge the RNC to list more than two or three positions we have taken that are outside of the mainstream of the American public," he said. "The public stands with us on the war, not Republicans."

Among the high points of the RNC's memo are that MoveOn is funded by "out-of-touch activists like George Soros and Stephen Bing" and that MoveOn featured user-submitted ads on its Web site comparing President Bush to Adolf Hitler.

Let's take these statements one by one.

First, Soros, a philanthropist, and Bing, a movie producer, donated heavily to Moveon.org during the 2004 election. According to the Center for Public Integrity, Soros contributed roughly $24 million to groups opposing President Bush's reelection, including MoveOn.  Bing donated $14 million to a variety of anti-Bush organizations that also included MoveOn. As Moveon allies are quick to note, however, the group has more than 500,000 donors nationwide and the average contribution to MoveOn is between $40 and $50.

As for the Hitler claim, MoveOn did -- briefly -- feature two commercials on its Web site in December 2004 comparing Bush to the Nazi dictator; the ads were submitted as part of a "Bush in 30 Seconds" ad contest. RNC Chairman Ken Mehlman called the ads "political hate speech."  MoveOn pulled the entries and the organization's founder, Wes Boyd, told the New York Sun: "We agree that the two ads in question were in poor taste and deeply regret that they slipped through our screening process."

The RNC memo is part of a larger effort to neutralize MoveOn as a key cog in the Democratic Party's national organization.  The group has proven extremely effective in the last three cycles at both funneling funds to candidates and in supporting campaigns with independent expenditure TV and radio ads.  If the GOP can win the PR war by painting MoveOn as a group far out of the mainstream, it could make it more difficult for Democrats to take money or other support from the group.  (Paul Kane and I wrote about this effort for Roll Call; if you have a subscription, click here to read that story.)

Matzzie said that the every time Republicans attack the group "we grow bigger and stronger."  He said MoveOn has added 700,000 new members since last November's election; its membership now numbers 3.4 million.

What do you think?  Will the RNC be able to neutralize MoveOn? Post in the comments section below.

By Chris Cillizza  |  December 13, 2005; 3:20 PM ET
Categories:  Democratic Party , Republican Party  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: AFL-CIO Asks, "Who's On Our Side?"
Next: Parsing the Polls: Iraqis on Iraq

Comments

Is not the democratic party owned by move on.org and George Soros? I prefer a democracy over a socialist agenda. I hope the GOP is successful at exposing MoveOn.org's lies and deceitful tactics.
I think if people find out what really is at stake to the American people, they will understand and reject the radical liberal agenda of MoveOn.org.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2006 8:44 PM | Report abuse

MoveOn is the grassroots answer to the insanity known as the RNC . . . these religious extremists have pulled our great nation too far from sensible center ground.

I encourage RNC to expend tons of energy and especially their money on "battling" MoveOn. The war needs to be fought in order to expose the excessive extremisms of both sides and thus to swing the pendulum to mature, balanced moderation.

Hopefully the RNC and its extremist, Christian-zealots will drive the voting public to the far left into progressive activism due to the RNC & friends' bizarre views and "un-intelligent" designs on our children's education and their efforts at starving USA citizens by starving the health and human services Federal program budgets through tax cut "reforms" !

RNC pretty please throw all your funds at MoveOn.org.

Posted by: DragonSlayer | December 19, 2005 7:09 PM | Report abuse

How is it that people are prattling about whether Bush allowed the NSA to listen in on domestic conversations without needing approval and they don't say a relevant thing about his support of Delay? Delay swore to support the Constitution of These United States of America and he has advocated using the Executive and Congress to control the Judicial system, Delay has also advocated using Church to control the electoral process...impeach both of them.

Most of the third world leaders live in gated compounds....why are moving in that direction? What is okay about having leaders that we don't trust and don't want to represent us? What happened to the days when we felt good about having the world trust us? We can't trust in the future any more, companies that give retirement or healthcare benefits are becoming something that was here "in the old days," Companies have record breaking profits and no employees in this country..........and that's okay? People in Washington DC don't know this because they're all retired federal, government or military....they've got multiple pensions.


There is a whole state that has had two industries destroyed, moved to other countries...North Carolina...Cannon towels/cotton is in China...North Carolina used to have a furniture industry that was huge...moved to Philipines, Indonesia, woods still cut here, factories moved in toto. All the workers out of work, selling homes, destitute as of 5 years ago.......still a depressed area. Used to be traffic backed up on highway 40 to purchase furniture at factory stores...now parts are shipped to New York and assembled by temp workers with no benefits, and no full time employment. No lack of income for the companies and your tax dollars paying to support discarded workers as they wander off into oblivion....if they can qualify for foodstamps or medicare. All the gains made by unions and work reform, traded to third world countries by your government.

Posted by: Hate is not a family value but it can get a moron elected | December 17, 2005 1:45 PM | Report abuse

This greeting has been pre-approved by MoveOn.org, the ACLU and the Democratic National Committee:

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress,
non-addictive, gender neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the
religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their
choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all;"

Additionally,
A fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically
uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make
America great, (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country or is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform, or sexual preference of
the wisher."

(Disclaimer: By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms.
This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law, and is
revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday
greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher who assumes no responsibility for any unintended emotional stress these greetings may bring to those not caught up in the holiday spirit.)

Posted by: DownWithPC | December 15, 2005 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Neither party listens to its constituents. The GOP tells people what to think. The Democrats build their campaigns on the advice of thousands of non-profit constituency groups clogging Washington, D.C. Like them or not, moveon.org is one of the few bright beacons for actual public participation. Something free from political, corporate, and religious machinations on the right would be just as welcome. Maybe ihateblackpeople.com or thepoorshouldjustdie.com would start an actual honest debate. Anything's better than what we have now.

Posted by: Hello | December 15, 2005 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Dark and frankly European.....cracker where do you think you're roots are. It's amazing, the peasants still think that the nobles care about them....maybe one'll marry your daughter.

The sad thing about the working, and barely working, and looking for work class is that they think that aligning behind someone besides themselves will help.

Moveon is about as minimalist an organization as possible....it might as well be Boston, and the DemoKats/Repugicans, King Georges people... This is your liberty at stake, make sure that you get taken care of, the sheep have a chance to escape, take it.

Democracy is important, show the world that by going for it.

Posted by: That's humorous..... | December 15, 2005 1:41 PM | Report abuse

There is a time to call a spade a spade. Hate is a cleansing emotion after your pride, job, safety have been stolen from you by the people that you hired to take care of your company.

General Motors had the equivalent revenue of all of the European countries combined during the late 60's. Even the Japanese understand that the land that they live in has to benefit from company/country policies or ultimately the company is impacted.


Environmentally sound policies include the ecology of the human ecosystem. Humans exist within a system...they impact the entire world around them, work, health, education, services, retirement, future. Human Ecosystem planning is something that we are not managing very well....it isn't even on the table as a complete thing. But HEY BOOMERS affect things.

Alpha Male behavior is something that you expect to find running animal groups but, how's about solving some problems so the rest of us can have a life too..... Aging hasn't even been addressed, who's going to take care of all of the boomers that you've removed from the company healthcare, retirement packages, former blue collar job rolls? The president, the federal workers, your mama?

Posted by: It's a beautiful day in the neighbor hood | December 15, 2005 1:25 PM | Report abuse

One thing consistent through all of these comments is that the pro-GOP positions are often agressive, negative, and defensive expressions. I recommend bringing your issues to a therapist to find out what is really troubling you.

Posted by: dontrell | December 15, 2005 1:15 PM | Report abuse

As A member of Moveon.org I don't consider myself to be a "radical". I, like the average person should, keep up to date on the politics and war effort. I base the opinions I share on what I find as the truth after much thought and research of what is available to me. I am not alone in the support of the Moveon.org's requests for less secrets and the need for the adminstration to be honest and much more transparent. I consider myself to be a part of mainstream America it's just that those of us who are aware of many things that the country has finally caught up with. That includes the press who has known of so much dirty work from this administration and for years was not reporting the truth about a lot. It is clear that the media is as much at fault for it's lack of being honest with Americans as many in the adminstration are also guilty.

Posted by: Linda Yaeger | December 15, 2005 11:27 AM | Report abuse

To the poster who mentioned David Brock's book. If you have not read Blinded by the Right, it is a truly insightful look at the Right wing propaganda machine. It will confirm all your suspicions about how the Right wing groups and media work in concert in using the politics of personal destruction to advance their cause. For an outside the beltway person, Brock's book was an eye-opener. Ironically just after it came out, the right wing attempted at first to discredit Brock but then backed off because they all knew he has the goods.

I mean if anyone ever thought Ann Coulter was a journalist, then read Brock's book. Coulter is a right wing nut of the entertainment variety just as Rush and O' Reilly are. SO check it out.

Posted by: DB | December 15, 2005 1:40 AM | Report abuse

Next thing you'll be saying that the Pople loves the children in Africa that's why he doesn't want their parents to wear condoms. If someone tells you a point of view that doesn't validate yours does that mean that they hate you. If I tell you to get out of your house in a sharp voice because your house is on fire does that mean I'm being mean to me, or that you're dense.

Posted by: Look someone that uses homophobia to win an election doesn't need your help, or maybe he does...what | December 14, 2005 11:49 PM | Report abuse

"Any 20 year-old who isn't a liberal doesn't have a heart, and any 40 year-old who isn't a conservative doesn't have a brain."

- Winston Churchill

Posted by: Tom Chang | December 14, 2005 9:24 PM | Report abuse

What a hate-filled set of comments! The move-on.org apologists statements are full of hate; the conservative opposites also appear full of hate. No, George Bush is not evil. He might be wrong. He might have made mistakes, but he is not evil. He is a politician and does things all politicians do. Much as I often disagree with them, I don't believe much of the movement represented by moveon.org is evil either. But the hatred is evil - the calling people criminals; the use of "liar" (when you don't know the facts); the use of "Nazi"; the use of "coward;" the hatred of religious practitioners. What kind of people have we become?

I wish we could tolerate each other instead of insisting on our own versions of mis-information.

Posted by: Clint | December 14, 2005 8:35 PM | Report abuse

You people really need to get it, if you're not making over 2 million a year, you're interests are not being served.

The Saudii's are buying up America like it's still 1895, and you can get a state for a reasonable price....hey I heard Wyoming is for sale.

Are Americans fat or just hopeless, and addicted to whatever they see on television, they've been trained haven't they, there are very little restrictions regarding lying are there?

Is there any food value in some of the junk food we allow people to sell? Why put a warning on a bleach bottle to not drink it if we allow food to be sold without food value...as in nutritious, made of something digestible. If americans are overweight and gullible, well that's a good market. Sell gullible poor people things that they don't need and you end up paying for their emergency room visits, meeting one of them in a head-on collision without them having insurance, and so on.

It would be a good idea to make the so called marginilized good citizens and alert them to the fact that everything that is addictive may not be good for them.

You want to help people and live in a better country, don't just give them things, don't mislead them and help them to see that they are being led in the wrong direction, actually interrupt the cycle of poverty and children having children by intervening. It really doesn't have to cost any more than it already does to support police, ER, community service, prisons and so forth.....but like the CEO's pillaging General Motors, your leaders say, "Why should I try and do it on my watch?" Because you get done when you start something before "someday."


As they said in Boston Legal last night, "It's that simple."


Didn't we just pass a law holding gun makers not responsible under any circumstances, for deaths by firearms that they sell? Why would any citizen pass such an obviously irresponsible law?


Since most of them only have IQ somewhat near 100, then whose fault is that? The people that are smarter, you and in most cases your leaders, although I would guess that GWBush's academic record musta been greased considering his level of elocution.

We owe it to the stupid people to make sure that someone stands up for them or elsest they may just reelect another rich kid doing what his folks tell him to so he can stay rich.

Posted by: Things aren't always what they seem an d then again....at least you get to see | December 14, 2005 8:29 PM | Report abuse

MoveOn and similar progressive organizations will help to turn back the forces of global capitalism and will promote a more just, equitable America. With MoveOn's help, I hope am confident that words such as "socialism" and "welfare" will no longer resonate negatively with most Americans.

Posted by: BushIsEvil | December 14, 2005 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Moveon is the only true moderate, mainstream organization in the public domain today. The RNC when it uses 'left' is just plan lying. Journalists who use either 'left' or 'right' these days are just plain lazy.

Posted by: Roy | December 14, 2005 5:35 PM | Report abuse

"I firmly believe this election is going to be a success in terms of turnout and adherence to basic democratic structures," Emma Nicholson, a member of the European Parliament and an electoral observer tells aljazeera.net.

"It will also mark a successful third stage in the transfer of Iraq from a tyranny to one of the freest societies in the Arabian peninsula, Persian Gulf and Eastern Mediterranean. The establishment of democracy will further send a profound signal to the rest of the region. The two previous stages of democratic election were both Iraqi-owned and Iraq-led; the third stage will express the will of the Iraqi people and deliver a full-fledged democracy."

Posted by: WellSaid | December 14, 2005 5:20 PM | Report abuse

What a shame that the Republicans continue their losing smear tactics by dishonestly attempting to compare Democrats and Liberal groups to Hitler and the Nazis.

Kilgore (R) found out the hard way when during the Virginia Governor's race, he unwisely tried to claim Kaine (D) would grant clemency to Hitler. The voter backlash was enough to assure a Kaine victory.

Keep it up Republican Party, by lying and using unbelievable smears, you're on your way to becoming a minority party, once again, which is just what you deserve.

Posted by: KEVIN SCHMIDT | December 14, 2005 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Grandmother and Iloveliberals:

Guess what. Political contributions are already a matter of public record. Have been for a very long time now -- for exactly the reasons Grandmother outlines.

You can easily find out who's given how much to any elected official in America. In many jurisdictions, this info is actually online.

Ilove, this isn't a matter of privacy, any more than any other kind of speech is. You say something out loud, you can expect to be held accountable for it. As long as giving money to politicians is considered "political speech" -- a concept dreamed up and promoted by your own dear conservatives -- you can expect the "listeners" to this "speech" to remember and hold you accountable for what got said.

Posted by: Mrs. Robinson | December 14, 2005 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Jim, While I share your outrage, it is pretty clear that Bush is no Hitler. A successful political manipulation based on religion, class, or race, is not the same as targeting multiple "populations" of your own country for outright extermination.

Bush is evil in new ways. His racism is that of a capitalist : the only race that matters is the human greed race. The only religion Bush supports is the : in my own eyes are my own creed.

Bush is an imperialist. He is a war monger. But he is not a Hitler. He makes sure our borders are poureous to everyone, if they are willing to be exploitable labor, willing to pump money into the US [whether or not we retain ownership], and willing to exploit for profit one way or another. Fascism and Imperialist Capitalism are different animals.

I would add that there is a Senate and a Congress. We do have the option of showing up for elections instead of watching TV. Is it Bush that has turned us into sheep?

Posted by: Susanna | December 14, 2005 3:53 PM | Report abuse

It is true that Move-On's joke contest compared Bush 2 to Adolph Hitler and it might be an exaggeration. But readers should consider that George Bush repeatedly lies about public policy. George Bush has an excellent propaganda machine and if it falters he uses taxpayer money in the American & Iraq media to propagandize his lies. He continually distorts public policy and he continually appoints people to federal agencies who are opposed to the goals of the Federal agencies.

Many of these agencies are supposed to defend the taxpayer and the consumer against the excesses of private entrepeneurs. Under Geogre Bush & Tom Delay they usually represent the entrepeneur and oppose the citizens.and money contributions from these entrepeneurs strengthen the President's power
Adolph Hitler wrote the book on all of these tactics to keep an ologarchy in power. Hitler also severely punished his opponents and used torture when necessary. Bush has made an art of destroying his opponents and he and his Attorney General sponsored the policies that made American torture widespread for the first time in out history.

Hitler was a master at promoting class divisions and religious hatred.Bush visited the vatican days before the Pope asked American Bishops to consider refusing religious sacraments to Catholic politicians who favored pro-choice policies.As a result at least one Catholic group refused communion to Bush's political opponent John Kerry, with very negative publicity for Kerry

Hitler killed 6 million Jews and will be judged a monster by history but his tactics and politcal ideas are alive and well in the White House today.

Posted by: jim greene | December 14, 2005 3:34 PM | Report abuse

This is to Liberalicious and the question:

How do they get the votes ? Why would regular people vote Republican ?

The answer might go something like . . .

I need a job. It's not in my long-term interest, but my dinner table and roof-over-my-head demands I cut down non-replenishable trees, over-fish, farm with outrageously expensive chemicals which will pollute my environment, pollute non-renewable water resources, sub-divide my family farm for suburban sprawl, work at gigantic animal factories, produce coal, gas, oil, build bad roads, build malls.

I'm just a struggling person, I need a job. If they stop cutting down the forest, I won't have a job. I'll vote for the pro-lumber guy.

That's how it happens. The working class needs to exploit the world as much as the owner class.

It's up to ALL of us, to find better ways, and produce jobs in the process. It's easy to talk, but what about spending just a little more on a hybrid car, new energy sources, different products that will in fact lead to economies if we put our money where our mouths are.

The problem with being working class is that you don't get to make the decisions, as a buyer or employee. Collectively we do have means for steering our ships in the right direction.

That's why we need grass roots. People can't make difficult choices like, "No I'm not going to make a living chopping down trees" if there is no support around them to find different work, and have other options.

Most of us will only stand up so much when there are children in the house. That's why we need to make everyone's children, including the wildlife's children, important. When we do this collectively, we are Moving On.

Posted by: Susanna | December 14, 2005 2:52 PM | Report abuse

"Let's say George Bush starts a program tomorrow. For this program, he enlists the armed forced. He then orders the military to go into the inner cities and gas the residents--by the thousands. Let's say this goes on for a few years, and he gets up to about 300,000 dead. Would MoveOn and the Left be OK with that? Or would they be calling for an immediate overthrow of President Bush?"

When Saddam was gassing those people we were supporting him and giving him military support, even though our government was aware of it. We even sold Iraq the precursors used in making the poison gas. To now use that, years after it happened, as an excuse for invading Iraq is the height of hypocracy.

And why have we not gone to war against the Sudan, which is CURRENTLY engaging in genocide?

The U.S. attack against Iraq was an unprovoked war of agression and all attempts to justify it can be shown to be based on lies and/or hyporacy.

Posted by: Captain Video | December 14, 2005 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone here read David Brocks book entitled:

"The Republican Noise Machine:
Right-Wing Media & How It Corrupts
Democracy"

Heres a review:

"The author, once notorious as a conservative attack journalist trashing the likes of the Clintons and Anita Hill, repudiated his past in the confessional:
"Blinded by the Right".

In this blistering j'accuse, Brock mounts a systematic assault on the right wing media juggernaut of think tanks, publishers, talk radio shows, Websites and cable networks. He treats it as a discplined political movement, inspired by Communist subversion tecniques, bankrolled by a handfull of right wing zillionaires through coporate and foundation spigots, tightly yoked to the Republican policy agenda and masterminded by arch- conservative Grover Norquist at weekly strategy meetings.

By Brocks account, it constitutes a seamless propaganda machine conveying dubious scholarship, Republican talking points and anti-liberal smear campaigns from think thanks and Internet rumor mills to the FOX News and talk radio echo chambers and hence thru a network of conservative pundits into the quality press.

Meanwhile Brock charges the so-called "mainstream media" cowed by spurious charges of "liberal media bias", have abandoned their role as objective arbiters of truth in favor of a uncritical of partisan ideology in the name of "balance". The result thus being a public discourse in which fact and opinion is blurred, poorly funded liberal voices get shouted down and no issue can be honestly debaed or election fairly decided."

So the next time you hear conservatives and republicans talking about how "out of the mainstream" groups like Move.On are and how they are funded by "out of touch"
millionaires..Point this book at them, which goes along way in unveiling their pure hypocrisy on this matter.

Posted by: Left Angle | December 14, 2005 2:01 PM | Report abuse

George Soros and the few other rich people who contribute to liberal causes are indeed abberations. The overwhelming majority of rich people contribute to the causes that benefit them economically and work to make them even richer, that is, conservative and Republican causes. Rich people, like Soros, that put the interest of their fellow human beings above their own greed are a scarce resource indeed.

Posted by: Captain Video | December 14, 2005 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Left and right are relative positions. Compare MoveOn positions with the views of the American people and it appears to be very centrist. Compare Bush's positions with the American people's as shown byreliable polls and he appears to be a rightwing extremist.
This Republican interest in "labeling" has gone a little mad. Some of them stillrefer to the "democrat" party and the docile interviewers don't call them on that infantile nonsense.

Posted by: O'Reilly's Vibrator | December 14, 2005 1:43 PM | Report abuse

"Dean has always been right so far."

The thing that gets Howard Dean into trouble is that he keeps telling the American people unpleasant truths before they are ready to hear them and gets vilified for it. For example, when Saddam Hussein was captured he said that this would not help us any, and was viciously attacked for it. He was right. Since then the violence in Iraq has gotten much worse.

Dean just cannot get it through his head that telling the American people what they NEED to hear is a luxury that a politician cannot afford. To be a success in politics one has to be willing to tell the people what they WANT to hear.

Posted by: Captain Video | December 14, 2005 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Whats great about all this discussion and the Moveon.org is that you can see the maddest of democrats. The left wingers and liberals are so mad and it is so fun. You really blew it for yourselfs when you lost the election in 2004. You made your candidates go so far left in the primary that Bush pummelled Kerry on his inconsistent positions. Hopefully move.org will be successful for a long time to make democrats go left in primary making it impossible for them to win a general election. I say thank you to Moveon.Org for Supreme Court Justices Roberts and soon to be Justice Alito. A 5 Judge Majority for 10 Years or more. Thank you, Thank you Moveon.org

Posted by: Right | December 14, 2005 1:37 PM | Report abuse

"German Social Democrats, and other fringe groups."

The German Social Democrats, after governing Germany for many years, did lose the last election, but are still the second largest party in Germany and are part of the current governing coalition because the largest party, the Christian Democrats, did not win by enough to get a majority in parliament and needed them to form a governing coalition. That is far from being a fringe group.

Similarly Move On is part of the mainstream of American public opinion. Seveal million ordinary Americans, all over the country, are its members and supporters.

Posted by: Captain Video | December 14, 2005 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, crit, crit, crit. Every time the Rethuglicans criticize MoveOn, I fork over some dough. Every time the so-called "mainstream media" organs like the WaPo and NY Times criticize Howard Dean for daring to speak the truth, I send Dean some money. Dean has always been right so far.

MSM shills, Rethugs, and conservatives all make me feel sick. Barf, retch!

Posted by: Diana MoonGoddess | December 14, 2005 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Matt:

"....this mini-fascists subvert our democracy."

Keep up with the name-calling--I'm sure that'll do a lot to further your message!

Posted by: ILoveLiberals | December 14, 2005 1:30 PM | Report abuse

It would have been nice when you listed the amounts that Soros and Bing contributed to MoveOn and the efforts to defeat Bush if you had listed the amount spent by the GOP and its various front groups to negate and dilute the ability of people to vote in this country. IN fact, money is still ebing paid by the RNC to defend one of its operatives in New Hampshire who jammed phones and took part in other "dirty tricks" that make a mockery of our electoral process.

When Weyrich, Coors, the Bradley, Olin, Koch, etc. groups withdraw from funding far right efforts to subvert our democracy, I will consider looking critically at what Soros does. Until that time, journalists should stop diverting our attention from the vast amounts spent by right wing ideologues through their control of media outlets and through their use of illegal ways to circumvent campaign finance laws, not to mention outright maniplation of voting machines, illegal poll taxes, and illegal disenfranchisement of legitimate votes.

These people are afraid of a fair fight and the fact that people like Soros and Bing level the playing field even a little bit frightens the hell out of people like Rove and the Bush Crime Syndicate.

Start reporting honestly and critically instead of appearing fair and balanced while this mini-fascists subvert our democracy.

Posted by: Matt | December 14, 2005 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Grandmother:

"I say publish the names and amounts of the donors to the Republican party"

Well, that's certainly an interesting statement. I thought Liberals were all about a right to privacy? Suddenly, my political contributions should be thrust out into the light for all to see--WITHOUT MY CONSENT? Moreover, let's consider what the likely effect of such a requirement would be: some people would be deterred from giving to the political party of their choice because they wanted to remain anonymous. Are you really in favor of a program whereby the government is disclosing to the public who you associate with and what you've given them? You really need to start thinking about the consequences of the poorly considered policies you advocate. It's simply illegitimate to propose a policy only when it suits your interests and then denounce it in factually indistinguishable circumstances.

Posted by: ILoveLiberals | December 14, 2005 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Will Move On survive? I belive they will and I will continue to send them funds to do my small part. My question is rather how has the RNC survived?

I have always wondered how a party that actively screws over their political base can so effectively manage to stay in power.

They have laid waste to the family farm, jacked up our energy prices, swiped the social security payments of the middle classes to give tax cuts to 10,000 of the wealthiest, created a huge new budget busting Medicare program that fixes monopoly prices for drugs and plants the price on middle class retirees, sold our clean air and water, blocked access to our courts, burdened the people with crushing debt for a lifetime and all the while give tax breaks, secret no-bid federal constracts and pension bailouts to companies that control trillions of dollars of wealth.

Who is it that is voting for these people over and over again? You allow a party of wealth and power mongering to run things because you want to bash gays and stop women from aborting the babies of rapists?

Please someone let me know how fundamentalist extremism has become the "mainstream" in America, because ain't no preacher on TV preachin on no Jesus I have ever known.

Posted by: Liberalicious | December 14, 2005 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Bush's Hides behide his faith and supports Non-Christain Values

Corruption .... below is the worst form of corruption... using faith to hide one's real policies...

Torture and the Constitution ....

Yes, by any standard the G. Bush supports and has developed a systematic Torture policy. And his administration is executing the policy.

Bush hides behind the Christain Faith.... I'm not aware of any Christain faith that supports and would agree to institute policies that support torture...

Like it or not .... Bush is not acting as a Christain would.... evil is knowingly doing something that violates our basic constitution ... and thankfully the US Constitution aligns with the comon good.

Simply put, Bush policies on torture are NOT CHRISTAIN. PERIOD.

Yes.. those words hurt... me ... you ... our Country and the world at large....

Posted by: john cook | December 14, 2005 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Send MoveOn $5 every time that Mehlman/Rnc complains. The grass roots aspect will become so evident. Thank GOD (and I'm an atheist) for MoveoON! My voice feels as big a the truth that I'm staring at.

Posted by: Michael Jones | December 14, 2005 12:51 PM | Report abuse

RNC focusing on Moveon.org.

The RNC's effort to focus on another group will have little if an impact. The RNC's rigid stance in stay with their current situtaion is quickly spliting the shaky allainaces it has cobbled together.

Especially, the faith based organizations. The common groud and values that the faith-based groups have w/ the left that are aligned w/ Jesus' teachings will force an allliance w/ the RNC on the certain narrow issues like right to life. The remaining issues like health care, etc that Jesus preached will be accomodated my allainces on the left.

The RNC has sold its values for gain.

THE END

Posted by: john cook | December 14, 2005 12:48 PM | Report abuse

All this talk about the President lying to the Ameriscan public. What about the "Oil for food" debacle and the previous President who allowed Saddam to force the inspectors out of Iraq while allowing him to spend billions of dollars on his wims and nothing on the Iraq people.
I have a son serving in Iraq and I feel that it the previous President would have done his job instead of acting like a nacrissistic teenage we would not be there.
He allowed the inspectors to be forced out then bombed Iraq for 30 days saying mission accomplished. He allowed Saddam to pump as much oil as he wanted (recall 90 cent a gallon gas in '98) while the US was being blamed for killing thousands of Iraq children because of oil for food. Remember it was Clinton who said that regimen change was needed in Iraq and that Saddam had WMD. All this crap just embolded a maniacal dictator. After 9-11 we had a leader who thought something had to be done instead of just talk.

Posted by: Stever | December 14, 2005 12:47 PM | Report abuse

If I didn't already belong to MoveOn, I would join just to spite the RNC. I'm betting that Wes Boyd and his group will do just fine. Also what I really want to see is the name and dollar amounts of the big fat donors to the RNC and their candidates.

I had a discussion with my 11 year old granddaughter this morning on the way to school. She told me that a classmate was spreading rumors about her that were not true (i.e. she like a boy that she didn't). I told her the classmate was just like the Republican Party - they put out statements (like those about Soros waging the war against Christmas)and then these statements have to be defended.

I say publish the names and amounts of the donors to the Republican party and make the honest allegation that they are here to destroy the well being of working Americans.

Posted by: Grandmother | December 14, 2005 12:43 PM | Report abuse

RNC focusing on Moveon.org.

The RNC's effort to focus on another group will have little if an impact. The RNC's rigid stance in stay with their current situtaion is quickly spliting the shaky allainaces it has cobbled together.

Especially, the faith based organizations. The common groud and values that the faith-based groups have w/ the left that are aligned w/ Jesus' teachings will force an allliance w/ the RNC on the certain narrow issues like right to life. The remaining issues like health care, etc that Jesus preached will be accomodated my allainces on the left.

The RNC has sold its values for gain.

THE END

Posted by: john cook | December 14, 2005 12:43 PM | Report abuse

How about a little thought experiment?

Let's say George Bush starts a program tomorrow. For this program, he enlists the armed forced. He then orders the military to go into the inner cities and gas the residents--by the thousands. Let's say this goes on for a few years, and he gets up to about 300,000 dead. Would MoveOn and the Left be OK with that? Or would they be calling for an immediate overthrow of President Bush? Would it matter if he killed 300,000 by gassing them rather than with weapons of mass destruction? Let's say George Bush posed absolutely no threat to any other country. Would MoveOn and the left think that the rest of the world should leave him be to carry on? OF COURSE NOT. What if in order to overthrow GW, it took 2,000 lives? Well, facing a death toll of several hundred thousand, that seems like a lesser evil--doesn't it? Therein lies the hypocrisy. The truth is that even without WMD or a threat to American safety, taking down Saddam was the morally right road to take--any other position is simply callous to the lives destroyed by Saddam--it's closing your eyes to genocide. MoveOn and similar organizations have effectively taken a position that genocide is OK so long as it's not Americans being slaughtered. That position is morally bankrupt and disgusting.

Posted by: ILoveLiberals | December 14, 2005 12:37 PM | Report abuse

the people who hijacked the republican party and the last three elections have made this into a fascist country whose only real citizens are the corporations. move on is trying to take our country back and make it a democracy again. i am proud to support their efforts

Posted by: astrid | December 14, 2005 12:24 PM | Report abuse

My interest in MoveOn has been renewed by the conversation. I participated in several meetings up in Vermont and Dartmouth, NH, when things were just getting started. At the time I was impressed at the diversity of people participating. Quite a different crowd than the PC thought control activists of the Reagan era. Sensible people showing up for their civic responsibilities was the tenor.

Especially satisfying was seeing how many young people were getting involved. It is hard for American youth to have opportunities to participate in their political affairs these days. In the context of MoveOn, young and old can become involved and build civic institutions without being shrill, reactionary, mean-spirited, or needlessly adversarial. Learning to form active groups which encourage individuals to make a difference is a sine qua non for real democracy.

It is secondary, whether the democratic structure of MoveOn is or isn't mainstream. If MoveOn serves only as a seed bed for future political leaders and citizens who know the meaning of participatory government, then it has done good. I'm pretty sure we can expect a good deal more than this however.

It is doubtful MoveOn will roll over. Participatory politics is only as dead as we are. The body politic is us. If we are atrophied, then we have to exercise.

I would add that I especially feel the need to be politically active with an organization which doesn't railroad it's people. The Democratic party has become extremely offensive to me, though I'm a lifer. The way that the Hillary Clinton / John Kerry machine has falsely taken up the email / internet breakthroughs of MoveOn is a slap in the face to any notion of democratic participation in the party. Just try contributing a voice to their organizations. If Kerry's people had been less autocratic, they would have beat the margins. Instead they alienated the very people who could have put them over the top at the ballot box.

I am glad to be reminded of MoveOn and will be checking out what they're up to around here. Since I live just outside Boston, it may be next to nothing. It is hard to organize in such proximity to one of the epi-centers of the great Democratic Party Machine.

Posted by: Susanna | December 14, 2005 12:14 PM | Report abuse

It's the light that lies in Bush's eyes...and lies and lies and lies!

Posted by: Richard Sarasota | December 14, 2005 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Claudia, JSmith, KCinDC:

SING IT!!!!!

Posted by: jf | December 14, 2005 9:46 AM | Report abuse

I have never quite gotten this cognitive dissonance the GOP practices in the way it characterizes the campaign contributions of George Soros as opposed to say, the campaign contributions of a bevy of wealthy Texas billionaires, including those that funded the scurrilous Swiftboat Veterans for Truth ads.

All across the spectrum of GOP propaganda outlets--talk radio and television, the blogs and a variety of conservative news outlets--Soros has been pilloried for his support of anti-Bush political organizations yet, for the life of me, I do not see where what Soros does is any different than what wealthy GOP donors do.

Posted by: Jaxas | December 14, 2005 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Since republicans stole the last 2 precidential elections, this country and the world have being a mess. They are nothing but corrupted and liers.

Posted by: hate republicans | December 14, 2005 3:24 AM | Report abuse

The RNC commenting on conflict of interest or pointing out the beginnings of the Moveon group is absurd, coming from a party and an admininstration that represents only the interests of Big Oil, Insurance and Drug Companies and Coporate Millionaires. Millions of Americans are fed up with a President and many members of Congress failing to represent the people of the United States. It is my solemn hope that the average American will help take back our country from the greedy ravenous wolves in Washington. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a government run by people of absolute integrity, one that is governed by the people and for the people?
It is time for a political revolution, we must overthrow the whoremongers of the biased billionaire minority that seeks to make the average American slaves. Supposedly, we are fighting in Iraq to help establish a democracy, when will Americans start enoying one again?

njsprof@sbcglobal.net

Posted by: Anonymous | December 14, 2005 1:07 AM | Report abuse

MoveOn's secret weapon: Flying Toasters.

Posted by: BC | December 14, 2005 12:38 AM | Report abuse

Moveon.org hasn't done shit. They sprang up because they incorrectly calculated that they would be able to have major influence once Bush lost, but ive got news for you, HE DIDN'T. The funny thing is these past two elections when the nominee has been "a bumbling texan" with low approval ratings, you havn't been able to do shit. George can't run again, so why the blogs still waste so much time critisizing him is beyond me. All of you can bullshit on these blogs, but the truth is, malcontent bloggers dont show up to vote, so the chance of the Dems winning the presidential election in 08 is nothing

Posted by: alex | December 14, 2005 12:35 AM | Report abuse

Moveon.org hasn't done shit. They sprang up because they incorrectly calculated that they would be able to have major influence once Bush lost, but ive got news for you, HE DIDN'T. The funny thing is these past two elections when the nominee has been "a bumbling texan" with low approval ratings, you havn't been able to do shit. George can't run again, so why the blogs still waste so much time critisizing him is beyond me. All of you can bullshit on these blogs, but the truth is, malcontent bloggers dont show up to vote, so the chance of the Dems winning the presidential election in 08 is nothing

Posted by: alex | December 14, 2005 12:34 AM | Report abuse

How about a mention of the the conservative Olin, Bradley, Smith Richardson and Sarah Scaife foundations? Millionaires and billionaires who finance The American Enterprise Institute, The Heritage Foundation, The Cato Institute, The Free Congress Research and Education Foundation, Of the People Foundation, The Ethics and Public Policy Center, The Institute on Religion and Democracy, The American Legislative Exchange Council, on and on and on and on and on and on.

MoveOn.org is getting another twenty bucks from me to stick it to *those* plutocrats and if a couple of plutocrats want to help, great.

Posted by: Terry Green | December 14, 2005 12:09 AM | Report abuse

Move-On is a miracle of God!!! This is the only way the masses of unknown citizens can be heard. My money is on you!!!!!

Posted by: Lisa | December 13, 2005 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Alex: thanks for making my point. The RNC's version of reality is prevailing in your "sticks." But it's not the actual reality: in fact, I'd wager that if your town is bigger than about 5,000 people, you've probably got a little crew of MoveOn members right there in your own little burg. And they're probably people most folks think rather well of.

It is BECAUSE MoveOn's members are so mainstream that the RNC feels it must act decisively to marginalize them. They don't have to waste their breath on ANSWER or the Green Party: they're already patently out there on the edge. But the very fact that MoveOn hews toward the middle of the road is what makes it a real threat.

As for MoveOn's longevity: Remember that they were first founded to campaign against the Cliinton impeachment. They've re-directed themselves several times (and are presently doing it again) -- it's part of their ongoing cycle of self-invention. They're actually getting decent at it, now that they've got some practice under their belt.

Skeptical: Soros and Bing's money went to a number of progressive institutions. I don't think Soros gave more than about $1.5 million to any one group in a single year. His giving has been aimed at providing the seed money to grow the same kind of rich and varied garden of institutions on the left that have proven so fruitful for the right.

That means lots of six- and low-seven figure grants that can provide the leverage to get a serious media outlet or think tank off the ground. He's been very careful to spread it around, rather than put all the cash in just a few places. I suspect Bing's money has been deployed in pretty much the same way.

Posted by: Mrs. Robinson | December 13, 2005 11:31 PM | Report abuse

Who cares what the Nazi's in the Republican party think, they should all be behind bars.
We The People are tired of being lied to, used, manipulated by these corrupt jack asses in power. We ARE the majority.

Posted by: Brian | December 13, 2005 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Moveon is effective, so the Rove/RNC/hate radio machine is attacking it.

And, typical for the Rovians, there's a thinly disguised anti-Semitism in singling out two rich Jews allegedly as Moveon's main supporters.

As Bush said when he encouraged Iraqi insurgents to kill our troops, "Bring it on."

Moveon will be a major fund-raising vehicle for defeating pro-war Bushite senators and members of Congress next year. The more the Rove allies in the media attack Moveon, the more money it will raise, and the more likely it will be that there will be some very interesting Congressional hearings into the crimes of the Bushite regime in 2007.

Posted by: Dev | December 13, 2005 9:49 PM | Report abuse

If there are 500,000 members and they each give approximately $45 (the average gift between 40 and 50), that is $22.5 million in contributions to MoveOn.

If Soros and Bing combined have donated $38 million, they can have completely bankrolled MoveOn with plenty of other groups to spare.

I don't recall if MoveOn is required to file financial disclosures or not; I believe not.

Still, I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one who questions these numbers.

Posted by: Skeptical About Numbers | December 13, 2005 9:49 PM | Report abuse

It is really all a matter of perspective. A close friend ended an evening conversation with the comment that the country had swung so far to the left during the sixties it would never get back to center. One really has to remember what the country was swinging left from. I would say that it was possible that we actually approached a centrist philosophy in the sixties and we did make history in the effort. The problem is we alarmed the facist in our country so much they have been on a vicious campaign to take us back in history ever since. A country ruled by corporate, religious influence that passes laws that take away our freedom of choice and freedom to speek freely is by definition facist. A president who claims divine direction and viciously attacks those who didn't attack us because he couldn't attack the ones who did, twists the truth like leaders in the past who wished to rule the world. You can pick a name if you want. It doesn't matter, which out of control leader you want to compare the president to. Or which other president, for that matter. So what is mainstream and what is not. I believe that Moveon does attempt to perform the political duties which its membership dictates. Membership is growing, hmmmm. It is nice to have some wealthy donors for the cause, but on the most part it seems moveon represents common people of common ideals. With a choice of facism to the right and socialism to the left, I think I would rather be a little left of center than far right of center like the present administration and its supporters. You can call moveon what you like, but I think it will become more powerful in politics as time moves on. Republican's should fear or should switch. And democrats that have fallen in with the republicans should take note. We will change politics. There is hope that we as a country can be a better leader in the world than we have recently, but that hope does not entail wandering further to the right. Moveon will support honest, ethical politicians who work for the people, not those who are just lackeys for the corporations or some religious group who wants to instill their beliefs in all our children. Left of center is good, that is where our country's founders were. You can twist history all you want, but it doesn't resemble anything like the rightwing would like you to believe.

Posted by: Don | December 13, 2005 9:43 PM | Report abuse

Hussein was a bit of a loon and he did manage to kill 500,000 people over about twenty-five years which would yield about 20,000 people killed yearly.

The ever-vigilant U.S., fortunately, liberated the long-suffering Iraqi and now they can enjoy a very Free and Democratic 10,000 - 15,000 people killed yearly.

Posted by: roo | December 13, 2005 9:28 PM | Report abuse

If the left is to gain in the next few series of elections, they must overcome a few negative stereotypes. Let's play a quick game of word association. Here's what I think when I hear the word "democrat": Jimmy Carter/malaise; abortion on demand; "Save Tookie"; Susan Sarandon; Michael Moore; food stamps; trade unions/corruption/declining work ethic; Whitewater/Paula Jones/Monica Lewinsky; Gennifer Flowers; Impeachment; USS Cole; Khobar; Nairobi/Dar Es Slaam; precursors to 9/11; dot-com-bubble-burst; moral equivalency; Barbara Streisand; Linda Ronstadt; Jesse Jackson; Al Franken; righteous indignation/no solutions; withdrawal.

Now, can I also come up with negative word associations for the GOP? Most certainly. Point is that the dems carry more baggage with Joe Sixpack in Indiana, Iowa, Kansas and the entire Sun Belt. MoveOn can raise all the money it wants from George Soros, but what it really needs to do is change its message.

Posted by: Jeff | December 13, 2005 9:21 PM | Report abuse

Hey Fed Up:

How to you feel about DNC activists slashing Republican tires on election day '04 in Wisconsin, or William Jefferson's (D-Miss.) Nigeria scandal, or student activists shouting down conservative speakers on college campuses, or leftists building Tookie Williams to be a hero...or Supreme Court tilting right as I type this, or the Republicans winning it all again in 2008?

More Fed Up

Posted by: MoreFedUp | December 13, 2005 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for echoing the Right Wing Attack squad talking points.

How do you feel about photoshopped surrender monkey attack web-ads -- those White Flag web ads?

How about RNC (former) big-shot now on trial in New Hampshire for election infractions and fraud?

Posted by: fed up | December 13, 2005 8:40 PM | Report abuse

The real question is whether MoveOn and the DNC can make in roads in the center of our country. Based on Bush's recent poll resurgence, the rolling economy and the left's failure to adequately address key moral/social issues many Americans are concerned with, I'd have to say that answer is no.

Posted by: What'sthe Matter withNY&SF? | December 13, 2005 8:39 PM | Report abuse

Please do not allow the RNC/GOP to roll us again!!! It is thanks to MoveOn, Truthout, SmirkingChimp and the like that people are able to see the other side of the glossy, spinning Republican coin (as it slides easily into the bulging pockets of neocon opportunists). As a traveller and an ex-pat, the web has only supplemented much of what I read in the "foreign" press and corroborated the news. However, in the U.S. several years ago, it was very difficult to find facts. An example was the "coalition of the willing." Who were they? How many exactly? What are the real reasons behind France's opposition? Is Kofi Annan really a crook?
Yes! We want the soldiers home. Yes! We want it all to end, right now! Yes! We want those responsible for this costly debacle to face a TV camera or a jury to explain the trail of lies and twisted truths. Go get 'em, MoveOn!!! I'm with you fellas.

Posted by: H. S. Dugan | December 13, 2005 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Good stuff Mrs. Robinson (And swell gams ;)

The right wing-b-nuts also forget a wonderful American trait..

We love to root for the underdawg

Posted by: biobit | December 13, 2005 8:28 PM | Report abuse

MoveOn mainstream? Yikes. Didn't 2004 teach you lefties anything?

Posted by: JTR | December 13, 2005 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Mrs. Robinson:

In all due respect, I believe you have too much faith in the durability of MoveOn. Indeed, its agenda and message seems to shift with the prevailing winds. Given its lack of a compass (other than unseating Bush, which term limits will accomplish), I'm afraid that it will be no more successful than its maany left-leaning "grass-roots" predecessors. The only thing that distinguishes it is that it is Internet-based. Also, regardless of its "middle-class" composition of housewives, Methodist ministres, trombone players, etc., the perception here in the sticks is that it holds the same place on the political spectrum as International ANSWER, Communist Party USA, the German Social Democrats, and other fringe groups.

Regards,

Alex

Posted by: Alex Garcia | December 13, 2005 8:26 PM | Report abuse

I'll be there tomorrow with MoveOn to deliver the petition to my Republican congressman. MoveOn is a voice of fresh air to counter the distortions and lies of the neocons.

Considering the political tactics of the neocons and the radical Christian right, it would not be unthinkable that they would find some phony, "bogeyman" threat in 2008, and for "reasons of national security" find it necessary to suspend elections until further notice. That would make their takeover of the American nation complete. Never mind Civil War in Iraq. We'd have one here.

Posted by: Stan Prentice | December 13, 2005 8:24 PM | Report abuse

The RNC needs to get it through their thick and narrow-minded heads that members of MoveOn are the mainstream of America. We are people that are tired of the George Bush and republican lies. We are tired of the dishonesty and scandal that seems to be the backbone of the republican party. We are tired of the incompitency that plagues everything the republicans do, including the running of the war, the relief efforts for Katrina, the failed nominations for court positions, and anything else that should be a benifit for every American, not just the cronies of the GOP. It is time we take this country back from the moral downward slide that the republicans have put us in, and raise America again to the standards that the rest of the world expects from us. MoveOn is just the tip of the iceberg of people that want an America to be proud of again.

Posted by: rick christl | December 13, 2005 8:23 PM | Report abuse

Chris, the above comments reflect a whole lot of misunderstanding about what MoveOn is. who supports it, and where it came from.

1. The leadership of MoveOn is not "Hollywood lefties." MoveOn was founded by two Silicon Valley millionaires -- hardly people opposed to a capitalist agenda. Wes and Joan themselves are intelligent, educated, modest people with a knack for organizing. They used it to make themselves independently wealthy; then, they put it to work for progressive values. They do not oppose government, banks, business, or making money. They just want to see this stuff work the way it's supposed to for the greater good.

2. The membership of MoveOn is only slightly to the left of the DLC. After attending and hosting quite a few gatherings, I can tell you that your average MoveOn member is middle-of-the-road, thoughtful, middle-class, and often a person of deeply held faith. They are your police chief, your civics teacher, your Methodist minister, your insurance broker -- very normal people living very normal lives. Many of them were never much political until they joined MoveOn.

This is, in fact, why the RNC is so frightened of them, and is working so desperately to marginalize them. It's because they are NOT far-left -- in fact, they're much too close to the earnest fundamentalists who make up their own base for comfort.

3. MoveOn will not move on after this is over -- unless it's to another issue. The group has created a nationwide network of strong local core groups over the past several years. Many of these groups have organized to become important voices in their communities. It's safe to say that, due to the energy of these local groups, MoveOn will be with us for quite a while.

Posted by: Mrs. Robinson | December 13, 2005 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Where's Merna and the 40 years of diatribe that is normally here.

Move On has large donors such as Soros, a liberal

Washington Times owned by Sy Yung Moon, a cult like figure with many wives.

Fox News owned by Rupert Murdoch, who's ego is bigger than Bill OReilly and Rush Limbaugh's together.

Richard Mellon Scaife: Owns Pittsburgh Tribune is major contributor to Club for Growth, funded Whitewater private investigations, and other various of right wing propaganda groups.

Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, James Dobson and other supposed religious figures use their tax exmempt status to run the right wing social conservative political agendas. So what's the deal with Move.on other than they are gaining strength in numbers and are a legitimate counter balance to all the right wing propaganda that is floated over Fox, Rush, and other media outlets.

The GOP has more far right wing

Posted by: ImpeachBushNow | December 13, 2005 8:09 PM | Report abuse

MoveOn is consigned to failure for two simple reasons: it is anti-American and socialist and that those facts are apparent to most Americans. Case in point, the 2004 election. MoveOn can call itself "progressive" or "grass-roots" or whatever it desires, but "mainstream" would be misleading. Perhaps its message would be more effective if it was simply less shrill. As it stands, MoveOn is rightly perceived as an elitist construction of the coastal elites. It's goal is to tear-down traditional American society and to replace it with something darker, leftist and, well, European.

Posted by: Jeff | December 13, 2005 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Swifty, a few years back Saddam was under lock-and-key and no-fly zones up the ying-yang. threatening not a soul, especially not Americans. And dont give me some garbage abt all of a sudden caring about Israel and suicide bombers b/c they were going to do that with Saddam or without him.

And the Taliban were being wined and dined by the Houston Oil Lobby.

read:

"Last week Unocal, the Houston-based company bidding to build the 876-mile pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan, invited the Taliban to visit them in Texas. Dressed in traditional salwar khameez, Afghan waistcoats and loose, black turbans, the high-ranking delegation was given VIP treatment during the four-day stay."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=%2Farchive%2F1997%2F12%2F14%2Fwtal14.html

nuff said.

and btw, bud, guess who Karzai worked for? hmmmm. you get one guess.

Re: HOPE. Who has hope? The Chalabis and the Karzais or the actual civillians of those countries? Some hope we've brought them. If its anything like the "freedom" we brought I guess we can expect another 100,000 innocents to die so Exxon et al can break their own profit records.

Guess what bud, you and your GOP constituents get screwed either way you look at it, along with the rest of us. Real F'ing great. NeoCon definition of "freedom" = death, NeoCon definition of "hope" = suicide. But you can find that in the handy-dandy NeoCon-to-English translator, right Bio? :)

Posted by: FairAndBalanced? | December 13, 2005 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Swift - f y i - You like discourse I can tell!

Check out the Kos - I play there, although I'm more image oriented than words..

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/13/162250/40#271

Posted by: biobit | December 13, 2005 7:42 PM | Report abuse

If we consider the historical perspective, particularly the snow-job the RNC did on the American people leading up to the election, one can hardly fault MoveOn.org and their attempt to fight back. I'm concerned, however, that some of their activities are going to push many of the centrist Democrats, who by-and-large are rather sensitive to large quantities of political rhetoric, away from the Party. We need every one of those "cross-over" and "fence-sitter" votes.

Posted by: Bob in MI | December 13, 2005 7:37 PM | Report abuse

Swift

Peace? The way it used to be was like this:

You and I could disagree - but still go play softball after work

I'll defend your rights as well

Bio

Posted by: biobit | December 13, 2005 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Great stuff.

Fair and Balanced, I'm sure a lot of what you wrote is true, and some of it probably isn't. No point nitpicking that though. However, compare both countries now to what they were a few year back instead of just throwing out bad things about them now. They have hope now. You honestly think most of them would go back to the government they had before? Revolutions take time. It took us 13 years to get from the declaration of independance to the ratification of the constitution.

biobit, i like you, you get fired up over this stuff. Some of that stuff is obviosly right you said. Can't really argue with the death count of Americans now can I. Some of it is also a bit stretched. Inducted doesn't mean guilty like you want it too. To be cliche, I don't agree with you but I'll defend you right to think that way. Hope you feel the same.

Posted by: swift | December 13, 2005 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Here is to "Move On", long may they operate. In the last six years they have spent Millions of $ of Liberal-Left money and have succeeded in strengthening the GOP in the House, the Senate, soon the Supreme Court- I love them.

Posted by: Scottyman | December 13, 2005 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Sorry to digress

Chris Cillizza - nobody is fooled

You tool you

Posted by: biobit | December 13, 2005 7:25 PM | Report abuse

I hear ya Fair.. what's yours is mine - Bio ;)

'Gotta feelin' 06 is gonna be a good year'

Tommy (don't Delay)

Posted by: bio bit - not that this site notices lol heheheheh | December 13, 2005 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Hey Bio, howd you get a copy of my NeoCon-to-English translator? ;) damn internets.

Posted by: FairAndBalanced? | December 13, 2005 7:15 PM | Report abuse

Good luck to MoveOn. The bubba vote is still strongly for Bush, they are somewhat dismayed at the lack of continuing support and so are more than ready to call anyone who does not walk in lock step a traitor. It is not going to get better. There will be no dialogue, there will be no "getting along", expect Rove and DeLay/Blunt to be dirty and hard. Somebody play "Deguello" and run up the bloody red flag. NO Quarter.

Posted by: cactusflinthead | December 13, 2005 7:11 PM | Report abuse

FairAndBalanced?

lol - I didn't forget the 'War on Christmas'

Like everything else these Sociopaths do - you have to 'reverse' the statements to see what they mean - it's quite simple

The 'War on Christmas' - once reversed - becomes 'The war against 'non-Christians'- - what they are actually up to

The 'Clean air act' - becomes the 'Free Mercury' movement (And I don't mean Freddie)

The 'Patriot Act' - is actually a hunting down of Patriots

It's like a Bizarro World version of 'The Blame Game' by Shirley Ellis..

Bio

Posted by: biobit | December 13, 2005 7:08 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how many of the fine people who have posted above and support MoveOn have actually been to Iraq? I worked there for a year as a contract firefighter on 2 US Military Bases, and I have talked with many Soldiers, Special Forces and Civil Affairs Personnel. From these discussions I have the opinion that there has been much progress made in the past 2 1/2 years. You dont see much on CNN about the new schools and clinics that have been built by Seabees and Army engineers. And you dont hear about water purificaton plants being built to allow more Iraqis to have fresh clean water. You dont see anything about our Civil Affairs personnel helping Iraqi women in inproving their rights and status. Occasionally you might see an article about the improved Iraqi Army and Security Forces. I was there and talked to many members of our military who are completing these tasks. They have told me that the situation in Iraq is improving and that they BELIEVE in their mission. A Democratic Senator who has been to Iraq FOUR times in the past 17 months recently wrote an OP-ED piece in the Wall Street Journal supporting the Bush Administration policy for Iraq. Senator Lieberman stated leaving now would be the worst possible thing that we could do right now. From what I saw and learned in Iraq, and what many Soldiers have related to me, I would have to agree with the Honorable Senator from Connecticut.

Posted by: BeenThere | December 13, 2005 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Swiiiiifty

Reality check - you think the following came from http://Moveon.org ??

What a fool you are - what a fine tool you have been

What part of this ReThuglican PowerHouse are you proudest of?

>The 30-100,000 dead Iraqi's ? - 'oops' Intel wink wink

Your clown Prince Bubble Boy admitted to 30K just yesterday

>The 20,000 Maimed soldiers? The 40,000 depressed Moms and Dads? The 50-60,000 siblings of these poor souls?

You don't think these brave soldiers have families?

>The 2,151 Dead Americans - who trusted that their President wasn't a sociopath?

Today's (6:00 pm est - Lou Dodd) death toll

>The growing list of Indicted ReThuglicans?

Ummn, Delay, Scooter, sigh many more on the way

>The catastrophic debt the fool from TX has kited?

Look this up yourself a-hole

>The war between the electorate that the right wing-b-nuts have ignited?

We are exhibit a, my poor brainwashed fool

>The hate speech spewing out of radios 24 x 7?

Rush calling Murtha.. what ever his butt buddy Rove wants him to call him, O'Leilly hoping terrorists attack San Fran - Some right wing-b-nut preacher hoping the legally elected Presisdent of Venezuala is killed because.. well, because his butt budy asked him to think that

>The morphing of the MSM into the National Enquirer?

Just note how often a 'stalled plane on a runway endangering dozens' eclipses major events.. Hurricanes 24 x 7 while 1/2 a million march on DC.. a blonde goes missing while.. why waste my material on you heheh

And by the way something - why did a gay male escort (Jeff Gannon) aka 'butt buddy' have a pass to attend daily press briefings??

Why doesn't anyone care - if it was a Dem in the house the amoral right would been panties a flying.. but I digress

You may think I have a thing about gays from the above - you probably don't know that Ken 'liva lip' Mehlman is gay.

Not that it amkes adifference

Posted by: biobit | December 13, 2005 6:55 PM | Report abuse

biobit, you forgot about the most important war of them all:

THE WAR ON CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!

this is hilarious:

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/12/merry-seder-christmas/

"Swift" said: "26,000,000 free Afghans and 22,000,000 free Iraqis"

this is in effect the "freedom" you are talking about:

Afghanistan:

A) Narcotic State
B) Zero infrastructure
C) Former oil/gas consultant and American puppet as "president"
D) American-taxpayer funded propaganda in the news
E) Osama running around getting away with murder (9/11 in case you forgot)

Iraq:

A) Civil War
B) Iranian/Syrian control
C) Country split into thirds
D) American-taxpayer funded propaganda in the news
D) Oil proceeds going to US/EU multinational oil companies (Shell, Exxon, etc)
E) Sharia Law Constitution
F) Tortured/Murdered civillians by American/Iraqi regime
G) American occupation

just b/c we give some people a purple finger and a vote in a rigged election doesnt mean they are free.

Posted by: FairAndBalanced? | December 13, 2005 6:49 PM | Report abuse

I am proud to be organizing the petition drive in NJ's 3rd congressional district. I've had no problem getting neighbors of all political stripes to sign on. voters in my area are ticked off that our voice on 'da Hill, Jim Saxton, is in lock step with the president.
http://einkleinesblog.blogspot.com/

Posted by: jay lassiter | December 13, 2005 6:46 PM | Report abuse

I am a contributor to moveon.com. I believe in and support most of the positions taken by its leaders; however, the leaders of moveon.com do not dictate, they listen to members. Like me. I recently took part in a national conference call with a dozen other members from all parts of the U.S. Tom and Eli were asking US what WE felt were the most important issues that needed to be addressed. How main stream can you get? I loathe all extremists. They're always wrong. Moveon.com is no more extremist than I am and I'm a 62 year-old moderate Democrat who voted for a Republican congressional candidate last year. And the RNC wouldn't know the 'mainstream' is stumbled into it. The RNC is dominated by right-wing extremists and more and more 'normal' citizens are beginning to realize that.

Posted by: rick freeman | December 13, 2005 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Lying sh*t Swift

That was me - this hurtin' site accepts a null name - which is why you'll thrive here left lob

Bio

Posted by: biobit | December 13, 2005 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Swift,

You're a sad sack. You say

"I'm most proud of the 26,000,000 free Afghans and 22,000,000 free Iraqis"

You don't give a shiite about any of these people - lie to me?

Posted by: Anonymous | December 13, 2005 6:41 PM | Report abuse

MoveOn represents a large segment of the voting public, including myself. It is not a "far left" organization and -- in my opinion -- is far closer to the feelings of mainstream America that does not share the views of the far right wing conservatives!

Posted by: John, Jacksonville Beach, FL | December 13, 2005 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Wow, biobit I'll assume the vast library of knowledge on moveon.org gave you all those great statistics.

I'm most proud of the 26,000,000 free Afghans and 22,000,000 free Iraqis who are no longer under the rule of real tyrants that would put your made up list or our reThuglican to shame.

Out of your list though, I like the hate speech on the radios. Air America is hilarious.

Posted by: swift | December 13, 2005 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Nice comments

Posted by: Anonymous | December 13, 2005 6:16 PM | Report abuse

The Democrats are heading right off the cliff. MoveOn.org is so far off the main stream. They don't speak for the majority of the people. They just like to think they do. Not now - but 20 years from now, I think History will record that George W. Bush was a great President and had a vision far into the future of what the world must do to fight terrorism. He is doing a great job in my book.

Posted by: Lorie/Worth, IL | December 13, 2005 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Hey Swift (not)

What part of this ReThuglican powerHouse are you proudest of?

The 30-100,000 dead Iraqi's ? - 'oops' Intel wink wink

The 20,000 Maimed soldiers? The 40,000 depressed Moms and Dad's? The 50-60,000 siblings of these poor souls?

The 2,151 Dead Americans - who trusted that their President wasn't a sociopath?

The growing list of Indicted ReThuglicans?

The catastrophic debt the fool from TX has kited?

The war between the electorate that the right wing-b-nuts have ignited?

The hate speech spewing out of radios 24 x 7?

The morphing of the MSM into the National Enquirer?

Or pehaps you're especially proud of

The war against free thought
The war against dissent
The war against 'non-Christians'
The war against Iraqis
The war against truth
The war against empathy
The war against the poor
The war against working men and women
The war against history
The war against the press


Let me know will ya?

Posted by: biobit | December 13, 2005 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Chris,
You seem to have fallen for the standard Rove disinformation method (Mehlman was his assistant) of floating a red herring that requires the opposition to respond.

This week Mehlman et al are floating rumors that Kathleen Harris is going to withdraw, a false charge she has to vigorously deny. Perhaps we should compliment you, Chris, for getting Melhman to be a named source of the disinformation?

In my 50 years I've learned that whenever the word "mainstream" is mentioned a deception is attached. This is pure opinion, not fact. The "mainstream opinion" is that evolution isn't a scientifically provable process, and that aliens from other planets are here on earth.

I agree with an early comment that Stephen Moore's "Club for Growth" (a deviously ingenious double entendre) has exerted more influence with less money than MoveOn.org. C'mon Chris, just exactly who is donating to CFG? Aren't you the least bit curious to reveal how they are an astroturf organization that clubs politicians with post-millennial "political correctness" by spending big ad dollars to drive apostate Republicans out of office? These are merely conservatives who want a balanced budget and some semblance of tax policy that benefits the middle and working classes as much as the top 1%.

Pre-2000 P.C. was merely public finger pointing by people with no political or financial clout, but Rove's P.C. troops are wealthy as Croesus and literally out to destroy people's reputations and livelihoods.

Posted by: Silicon Valley Entrepreneur | December 13, 2005 6:02 PM | Report abuse

biobit, haha. that was classic. isnt it funny how the gop hates people most when they are right (MM, Dean, MoveOn, etc).

btw, Sleeza, the RNC couldn't neutralize a fart with a flamethrower without Robertson, Dobson, Diebold, et al, there to pull the trigger. such a joke that they think liberals are extreme.

Posted by: FairAndBalanced? | December 13, 2005 6:02 PM | Report abuse

It's really refreshing to read all your comments. After losing the last 6 congressional elections and the last 2 presidential elections, I was worried our party would feel the need to try change its tactics and adapt. The last thing we need to do now is reevaluate and adjust according to the past election results. Very glad to see that there are plenty of people out there who think that the "ignorant Americans" who have been voting republican will change their mind if we just give them time, repeatedly point out the evils of the GOP, and repeat our message as we have always done.

If we can get our representatives to follow moveon's lead and move toward the mainstream by touting more liberal ideas, we'll definitely regain power. Hopefully the dems will listen to the groundswell of support from our members - now totaling 1% of the American population I might add - and take back the house in '06. I am confident, and can prove, that mainstream Americans have enough "common sense" to compare moveon with the GOP, and side with the right choice.

Posted by: Swift | December 13, 2005 5:53 PM | Report abuse

I think a wonderful synergy was established when Scottie M siad Jack Murtha had allied himself with Michael Moore

Mike had to smile - I know I did

The ReThuglicans did a flip-flop 24 hours later - but the genie was well out of the bottle

I think we should use that quote ad-nauseam to raise Mr Moore back up to where he should be

Posted by: biobit | December 13, 2005 5:49 PM | Report abuse

People commenting here give Moveon.org far too much credit. You can't name a single political outcome they have favorably driven. Everything they touch turns into a loss. It's fair to link them to other major political losers like Michael Moore because, frankly, they lose...and the lose a lot. Meanwhile, the GOP usually wins. Hollywood Leftists -- the bulk of Moveon-org.'s leadership -- are very, very out-of-touch with the political pulse of this country.

Posted by: Farragut square | December 13, 2005 5:34 PM | Report abuse

All this democratic nonsense. Its funny I forgot who won the election. Please don't talk about the first amendment either. The democrats only support speech that they agree with otherwise they want strict censorship rules. Can we say HYPOCRITES!

Posted by: right | December 13, 2005 5:24 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Carl on every point.
I disagree with MoveOn on some issues, but I'd be more likely to give them my money than present GOP leaders. Interesting, isn't it, that the writer chose to ignore the even more overwhelmingly wealth-backed "Club for Growth," a group which really shows how insane neocons are. This 529's devoted to kicking down moderate Republicans and outspending them - people in their own party. Gee, so MoveOn.org isn't so extreme? With friends like that, how could anyone expect them to play fair with enemies? (or follow the Geneva Convention with prisoners... but I digress)

As for Dem aristocrats ... while the stereotype "country club liberal" is nothing like the people I know who participate in MoveOn, all of them fiscal conservatives and social liberals... Kerry was so out of touch. MoveOn may really surprise us with its clout if they have a better candidate next time, like, say, Wes Clark or Bill Richardson.
As Republicans, my husband and I look at facts and positions thoroughly, and vote for the best candidate. We wouldn't buy any claim that can't be backed up, whoever's making the claim. Today's GOP is a complete mockery of what it means to be a conservative. Barry Goldwater, who cared more about efficient government than what consenting adults do in their bedrooms, is rolling in his grave. And some of these so called Christians are going to have one hell of a discussion with Jesus when they get up there.

Posted by: Miss Janeway | December 13, 2005 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Republicans only attack people and groups they fear. Moveon.org is a hero in my book in keeping the Republican Party in check.

Since we have Democrats who fail to speak up and speak out when we need them to do so, thank GOD for Moveon.org.

I find the critical comments from Ken Mehlman a joke. He should look in the mirror and see what he sees. The slash and burn tactics of the Republicans are legendary. We Democrats need to learn to fight more like them and take them down.

We also need to hold crappy journalists to task for misleading Americans about groups and positions from Moveon.org and others.

From the Washington Post, Fox News (Truly a lost cause) MSNBC and CNN which get worse everyday and mislead the public.

Americans believe in most cases what they read or see and we all know that most journalist in DC are to busy sucking up to politicans so they can stay in the loop to do their job right.

Most importantly, we need to stop letting the Republicans define Liberal as a bad word.

Posted by: John | December 13, 2005 5:20 PM | Report abuse

It's misleading to say that MoveOn "featured" the Hitler ads. That sounds like they were specially selected and given prominent placement, which is the reverse of what actually happened (the submissions were removed as soon as they were noticed).

I agree with Claudia and others that the media should give ultrarich conservative donors as much coverage as they give Soros. One important conservative billionaire whose activities deserve more scrutiny is Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

Posted by: KCinDC | December 13, 2005 5:15 PM | Report abuse

When the neocons are gone, Move On will move on. True conservative ideals need to return to the GOP or they will be gone, and likely this country. The "con" in neocon doesn't mean conservative, it means con. Cons lie, they don't deliver--this sums up this all GOP government.
Conservatives do not go to war without all the facts, until diplomatic means are exhausted, unless there is a legitimate threat, and "real" allies will fight with us.
Conservatives do not cut taxes and increase spending.
Conservatives don't cut the social safety net to pile wealth on their friends.
Conservatives are not about increasing political and federal power at the expense of our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Conservatives are not for off-shore corporations, outsourcing, and corporate welfare.
Conservatives aren't about spoiling the nation's natural resources, air and water for short term greed and lobbyist dollars.
The problem is the neocons exemplify the opposite of the above conservative concerns.
Unfortunately, the Dem aristocrats play pretty much the same game with our country. Move On and progressive politics may be the only thing that saves this country. I hope we aren't to late... don't be surprised if a dirty bomb in DC causes these boys to "suspend the Constitution" and put America under Neocon martial law.
I trust these people as far as I can throw a fit.

Posted by: Carl | December 13, 2005 5:01 PM | Report abuse

I think the mainstream opinion right now is that anything the RNC criticizes must be OK.
The corollary to that is the more strident the RNC criticism, the more likely the criticism is to be true.

Posted by: Captain Spaulding | December 13, 2005 4:55 PM | Report abuse

I have been reading the Post all of my life and I must say this cow-towing to the Right is very unappealing as a reader.

Why not scrutinize donors to the Right wing organizations who are outside the mainstream, who support unprovoked wars and incompetent relief efforts for those poor, downtrodden few who are the worst victims of natural disasters?

I'd like to see some equal coverage from the Post.

Posted by: jsmith | December 13, 2005 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Not all of us bought the Republican propaganda that would make "Liberal" a dirty word. Some of us can see that now is the time for some trust-busting, plain speaking, progressive, strongly liberal Democrats who will rescue our nation from its all-time low in world opinion, and will help us to help those here who need strong unions, compassion, and true Christian charity. And let's remember that the great majority of the founders of our families arrived here as immigrants, whether over the seas on the Mayflower or across burning deserts in this decade -- and all help to contribute to our nation's welfare.

Posted by: Audrey | December 13, 2005 4:44 PM | Report abuse

I would say that moveon.org will never carry the clout that the religious right now has over the presidency. Never. They tell Bush want they want and he delivers. Pretty sad for a guy who keeps claiming that "he makes decisions and sticks with it" (Hmmmmm, can we say Harriet Miers!)

Posted by: Anonymous | December 13, 2005 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Man speaking of dividing and polarizing...Can I utter an oft repeated phrase: "Can't we ALL jus get along?" GEEZ!

Posted by: rodneydaking | December 13, 2005 4:36 PM | Report abuse

What does "out of the mainstream" mean?

Many citizens believe they are out of the mainstream, that the government, not just Democrats or Republicans, does not serve them. Individuals and issues rather than party affiliation move people.

MoveOn was started by people who were fed up with political and media emphasis on a president's sex life. That MoveOn still exists and that it exerts political pressure seems a sign that its audience is broader than the RNC or anyone - sugggests when it uses "out of the mainstream" as an attack.

Posted by: Mary | December 13, 2005 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Moveon is a little slice of hope in this dark and ever depressing political world. It was started by the frustration due to poor democratic leadership in 2000. It has morfed to be a very effective political group.
I love the fact they are trying to take back the word liberal. The fact that the word has a negative taste in a lot of Americans eyes deeply concerns me. It is Moveon that is stepping up where the Dems are not willing to go. The dems already needed them during the last election. For the next one, Moveon and others will be an even larger force to reckon with.

I will donate to Moveon until I'm blue in the face.

Posted by: Paul | December 13, 2005 4:33 PM | Report abuse

At this point it seems safe to say MoveOn has become a permanent part of the political landscape which should, by itself, be sufficient to remove any references to "wingnut" that the GOP seems intent to hang on it. I would go so far as to argue that MoveOn's growing clout has recently helped many fair-thinking Americans come out of their own political closets - thereby ensuring that MoveOn's views are, in fact, today's most mainstream views. Unless, of course, the GOP's minority fascism has truly replaced the voice of our country's majority.

It's hardly folly to see that there is majority support for a quick end to Iraq II (and a more equitable tax code, and a true rebuilding of New Orleans/Gulf Coast, and a fair/open election procedure, and a victory over American Poverty, etc.), if only someone in the Bush Crime Family would finally do the right thing by both the Iraqis and their fellow Americans.It's a shame the GOP's brand of history book had the Nixon Chapter expurgated ...
PJS

Posted by: P. Staley | December 13, 2005 4:32 PM | Report abuse

All,
Remember one of the RNC's best talking points is to point out everything that the Dems are doing is bad, bad and bad. Never mind they are doing it themselves--just point out that the Dems are such bad, bad, bad people. Don't use the words actually used like withdrawal, instead use words like retreat and surrender. Just make it all up, sound really mad, be offended and if it makes the news and MSM then you have done your job. Don't worry about accuracy! Not a factor.

Remember the 2000 campaign, Bush complaining about the "politics of personal destruction" while he had his (I mean Karl had his) cronies doing the dirty work down in SC. This is the way it works now in America. Are we not proud??????

Posted by: Anonymous | December 13, 2005 4:27 PM | Report abuse

My experience of MoveOn.org is that they act based on facts, public polls, for example. As long as they cite that sort of information in their defense, I don't see how the RNC can win the argument for the reasons others note.

Also you should have noted that when the RNC objected to an ad MoveOn.org responded quickly. When the RNC has been asked to take down a recent ad depicting Howard Dean and others with a white flag, they could not be bothered.

Ultimately, what goes around comes around. You can't escape that fact no matter what party you belong to or how much money you have backing you up.

Posted by: Tim | December 13, 2005 4:22 PM | Report abuse

They make such big deal about the ads comparing Bush to Hitler:
1. Without ever mentioning that it was a user subbmitted ad which was ina contest, and was promptly removed fromt he running.

2. Without ever mentioning the officially RNC sanctioned ads against Max Cleland which compared him to Osama Bin Laden.

Right-wingers are constantly lying. They always just keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Soros Soros Soros....Hillary Hillary Hillary. Ken Melhman is one of the worst.

When conservatives in my family ask me why I hate Bush so much it is because his party is anti-thought. They only can repeat ridiculous one-liners.

Posted by: Marco | December 13, 2005 4:21 PM | Report abuse

MoveOn.Org extremist? Did you hear our President yesterday say that even with what he knows today (this includes no WMD, no relation between 911 and Saddam, no aluminum tubes, no cheering welcome, no quick victory, no "just dead-enders", all the poor planning and incompetence, etc.) he would again invade Iraq.

Since he knows that Congress and the American public never would have agreed to that invasion had not all these premises and justifications been sold to them as imminent truth, this implies that he didn't care if any that sales pitch was true.

Any president willing to take his nation into an unprovoked war on false premises is as extreme a leader as one can imagine.

By contrast, MoveOn.org is the model of democratic grass-roots reaction.

Posted by: mike | December 13, 2005 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Forget Move ON.org! The RNC had better concentrate on securing our southern border, stopping the FLOOD of immigrants
both legal and illegal that are putting AMERICANS OUT OF WORK!
Also, OUTSOURCING has got to be stopped or,
a 40% import tax has got to be leved against ANY PRODUCT imported into this country, weather it be a finished product, or the raw materials.
THAT IS WHAT WILL STOP MOVE ON.ORG!!!!!

Posted by: Ralph L. | December 13, 2005 4:17 PM | Report abuse

I guess you can count me as one of those "far outside the mainstream" since I happen to agree with Moveon.org on pretty much every issue.

Posted by: J. Crozier | December 13, 2005 4:16 PM | Report abuse

"RNC Chairman Ken Mehlman called the ads "political hate speech.""

Well, Ken Mehlman _is_ an authority on political hate speech...

Posted by: asdf | December 13, 2005 4:13 PM | Report abuse

scootmandubious is right on, i have given to move-on for over 2yrs. they are my mainstream

Posted by: tomnc | December 13, 2005 4:11 PM | Report abuse

I'm curious, Mr. Cilizza, why you and other pundits so often refer to George Soros, but never, ever mention the fact that he is the only really major donor on the Left, whereas the Right has dozens - including Richard Mellon Scaife, who spent millions trying to bring down President Clinton, and the Olin or Coors families, whose largesse to rightwing foundations and projects completely dwarfs Mr. Soro's.

We know that the RNC itself enjoys the munificence of a number of benefactors far more generous and wealthy than Mr. Soros. So when will we hear about them?

Also, I wonder why a 'phased withdrawal over a year' is refererred to in Republican talking points as 'cutting and running' when it's exactly what our military and Rumsfeld are talking about. Do they think our military is 'cutting and running'?

Posted by: claudia | December 13, 2005 4:10 PM | Report abuse

I'm curious, Mr. Cilizza, why you and other pundits so often refer to George Soros, but never, ever mention the fact that he is the only really big donor on the Left, whereas the Right has dozens - including Richard Mellon Scaife, who spent millions trying to bring down President Clinton, or the Olin or Coors families, whose spending to rightwing foundations and projects completelly dwarf Mr. Soros.

We know that the RNC itself enjoys the munificence of a number of benefactors far more generous and wealthy than Mr. Soros. So when will we hear about them?

Also, I wonder why a 'phased withdrawal over a year' is refererred to in Republican talking points as 'cutting and running' when it's exactly what our military and Rumsfeld are talking about. Do they think our military is 'cutting and running'?

Posted by: claudia | December 13, 2005 4:06 PM | Report abuse

The thing that attracted me to Moveon.org was that their every position was annotated with sources to verify their claims and positions. Don't you wish the RNC hatemailers were required to do this?
I contribute to Moveon and will continue to do so. By the way...I am a veteran, my father is a veteran and so is my son. We are all very angry over the Republican tactics and decisions.

Posted by: Tom Hermon | December 13, 2005 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Its amazing how the "right" tries to brand those who don't agree with their war views are cowards or want the US to cut and run....Most of these people have never fought in a war or have children in Iraq...There are no weapons of mass destruction!! Only reason we're there is the OIL....You don't have to be a head cashier at Walmart to see that!!!

Posted by: Russ Claude | December 13, 2005 4:03 PM | Report abuse

This is all so funny...remember when Bush ran saying he was a "uniter not a divider"...he has lied and lied and now we are in Iraq to bring democracy to the Iraqi people...check out the election irregularities in Ohio...Bush can't even ensure democracy here ....the RNC is in a tough position...I don't envy them.

Posted by: Karl | December 13, 2005 4:01 PM | Report abuse

They can't neutralize MoveOn with this issue. Talking about George Soros and web ads that were taken down in about 5 minutes isn't going to mean anything to anyone outside of the hard-core talk radio crowd. The RNC is funded by most of the multi-multi-millionaires and billionaires in America. The left has just the one. How does shouting Soros' name get the GOP anywhere?

Poll after poll shows that a majority of Americans really are opposed to the war in Iraq. The RNC now attacks war critics at it's own peril. Rhetoric cannot turn public opinion around at this point. Daily reports of torture and American body counts are simple facts that outweigh any imaginable spin.

Politically, the smart thing for the GOP to do would be to allow members to break ranks on the war. Take no offical party position on it. Then voters could be anti-war and also vote Republican. As it stands, they are leaving around 60% of the electorate out of the tent and being very vocal about it. When the RNC is branding the anti-war crowd as unpatriotic and weak, they are personally insulting a lot of the people who they absolutely need in order to remain in power.

Posted by: Jackson Landers | December 13, 2005 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Since most Americans are uninformed idiots that don't vote or give money to either cause, it's irrelevant whether the RNC can neutralize MoveOn. Any battle between the two will only boost their bases and further the divide that has become our political environment.

Posted by: Marshall | December 13, 2005 3:55 PM | Report abuse

No, Rush is all sweetness and light, and would never say a hurtful thing about any of God's creatures. ;)

Limbaugh quotes from brainyquote.com:

"Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream."

"The difference between Los Angeles and yogurt is that yogurt comes with less fruit."

What a sweet fellow!

Posted by: SDM | December 13, 2005 3:53 PM | Report abuse

I think it's laughable that MoveOn points to the "fact" that the public agrees with them on the war as support that they are in the mainstream.

Polls have suggested that while support for the war may be soft, there is no consensus about what to do about it. MoveOn's position that we should just cut and run is indeed well outside the mainstream because it is so irresponsible.

Posted by: Bill Baxter | December 13, 2005 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Actually the Rush show is very much a hate fest. Any person who equates political dissent with a lack of patriotism is a bully and a coward. And that bully seems to have a hard time responding to truth. I have seen enough false statements in his transcripts to no longer respect his voice at all.

That's the problem with too many meds, I suppose. They can clouds one's judgement.

Rush only has credibility with his hardcore base, who will happily ditto him to their dying day.

Posted by: scootmandubious | December 13, 2005 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Chris, out of curiosity, have you ever referred to the "latest onslaught" of RNC talking points, or the constant bombardment of those talking points by right-wing funded organizations?

The interesting thing to me about MoveOn is it seems to be a rare pro-active, Democratic organization. One that is not embarrassed to espouse a liberal viewpoint.

While I have no future plans to contribute to the DNC or any candidate like Hillary who prefer to position themselves as GOP-lite, I think I am now convinced that this organization is the best place to invest my finances.

Posted by: scootmandubious | December 13, 2005 3:46 PM | Report abuse

hahaha. Hate radio shows like Rush? You're an idiot. :P

Posted by: Dave's a moron | December 13, 2005 3:42 PM | Report abuse

MoveOn isn't any worse than the hate radio shows like rush limbaugh, etc.
The GOP wants to silence anyone who doesn't share their extreme views.

Posted by: Dave | December 13, 2005 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Nice write-up. There's no question that trying to isolate MoveOn is a major, synchronized right-wing talking point.

I think it's unlikely MoveOn will be neutralized, but these attacks are just another step in the polarization of our political environment. If nothing else, GOP true believers will be able to file them away with the ACLU, and Media Matters as strident lefty propaganda that can be ignored... Pretty much anything to the left of the WSJ editorial page is obviously Liberal propaganda.

Posted by: ianc | December 13, 2005 3:35 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Matzzie. When a group singles out another group for political punishment, it often backfires and actually helps the second group fundraise/recruit. It's free advertising for them. How do you think Moveon.org has grown so much since November? Going door to door?

Posted by: Kevin | December 13, 2005 3:33 PM | Report abuse

MoveOn.org is a grassroots organization, much needed in these times of lies and deceit. My money is on MoveOn.org.

Posted by: Charlie Williams | December 13, 2005 3:32 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company