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Swift Boat Redux?

UPDATE, 5:45 pm: Matt Mosk over at the Trail has more evidence of the lack of excitement among donors for a major anti-Obama campaign in the next few weeks. Mosk chatted with Sam Wyly who dismissed the idea he would help fund an effort like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth this time around.

ORIGINAL POST

After months in which efforts to start and, more importantly, fund independent groups aimed at influencing the presidential election sputtered, a spate of recent activity suggests that these much-maligned groups may finally be coming on line.

Over the weekend, The Fix and Matt Mosk wrote a piece about the American Issues Project, a 501(c)(4) group with ties to the operatives and donors who were behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ads aimed at John Kerry in the 2004 election.

Chris LaCivita, the main consultant to the Swift Boats, co-founded the group along with Tony Feather and Larry McCarthy, two prime movers in Progress for America's spending in the 2004 contest.

AIP has already run an ad in late August attacking Barack Obama's ties to former Weatherman Bill Ayers and, according to sources familiar with the group, are planning several more ads in the coming weeks that take direct aim at the Illinois senator.

Now comes word from the Boston Globe that two progressive organizations -- Brave New PAC and Democracy for America -- are up with a small national cable buy with an ad that features former POW Phillip Butler questioning John McCain's ability to be president.

They are expected to join a handful of other independent organizations -- organized as either a political action committee, a 527 or a 501(c)(4) -- expected to push a series of negative (some would say over the top) messages in the final 50 days of the campaign.

How much impact will these sorts of groups have?

Our guess: less than you might think.

Whereas in 2004, when scads of affluent donors were more than willing to write big checks to bankroll operations like Progress for America, America Coming Together and the Media Fund, attempts to re-create that model in this cycle have largely failed.

A series of Democratic-affiliated groups -- Progressive Media USA, Fund For America -- went belly up and some of the biggest names in conservative giving -- T. Boone Pickens, for one -- have largely remained on the sidelines.

To the extent any of these outside organizations have had success, they have been downballot -- in Senate and House races. And, even there, groups like Freedom's Watch, which was once expected to be a behemoth spending in House and Senate contests, is currently on television in only Colorado and Oregon.

(There has been, however, significantly more spending by outside groups in Senate contests than in the presidential race to date. More on that later this week on The Fix.)

The reasons these groups have had difficulties are myriad. Stricter campaign finance laws have made the prospect of giving less appealing to major donors; the lack of involvement by the major money men and women for each party have lessened the arms race nature of political giving; and the stated opposition from both McCain and Obama toward spending by outside groups has made the idea of plunking down millions to help elect either one a less appealing prospect.

Of course, because donors can make unlimited donations to 527s and 501(c)(4)s and because recent reports have suggested a softening in the attitudes of McCain and Obama toward the presence of these outside groups, it's always possible that a group could emerge from nowhere in the next few weeks -- fueled by seven-figure donations from a handful of very wealthy individuals.

And, labor unions are already ramping up their efforts -- as evidenced by the $2 million ad campaign launched today by the Service Employees International Union attacking McCain for being wholly out of step on the economic struggles of the middle class.

Still, the idea that a group could have the influence of the Swift Boaters in 2004 seems unlikely. To influence voters in a series of battleground states at the presidential level takes -- at a minimum -- $10 million (or so) and would likely require far more than that given the massive overcrowding of the airwaves these days. And, remember that the first Swift Boats ad went on television on Aug. 4, 2004, giving the ads time to build buzz, momentum and funding.

So, read all of the reporting (including The Fix's own) with a skeptical eye. Reporters and campaign operatives are always re-living the last campaign rather than covering and fighting the new one.

All signs indicate that the story of 2008 in relation to outside group spending will be how they fizzled not how they flourished.

Prove us wrong donors. Prove us wrong.

By Chris Cillizza  |  September 15, 2008; 3:38 PM ET
Categories:  Eye on 2008  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Analysis: Economic Crisis Puts Candidates To Test
Next: Hockey Moms Against Palin

Comments

So today's Right Wing Line is that none of the candidates are as qualified as Carly Fiorino to run HP into the ground. How inspiring. Thank goodness she was fired by HP and handed 50 millon dollars to leave. Heard has done ten times better a job runing HP since she has left and thier stock has doubled since she was fired.Is that the best message you guys on the radical right have today? We want Carly to do for the nation's faulering economy what she did TO HP?

Posted by: Leichtman | September 17, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Re Drudge Blog. Typical lies by another WP liberal. Both the stories that he said were not on Drudge yesterday were. Try the truth you might like it.

Posted by: Sean Castle | September 17, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Barack Obama and his fans are sexists.

Posted by: Kick | September 17, 2008 2:27 AM | Report abuse

It's the economy stupid.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 16, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: OBAMA 08' | September 16, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Robert Greenwald has produced an ad running which features a former Vietnam POW attacking McCain purely on his personality. This is what I thought this column would be about, but no such luck. At least the 'Swift Boat' ads challenged Kerry's narrative of his service on facatual grounds (and, though it is seldom acknowledged, did punch some holes in his story, such as the 'Christmas in Cambodia' tale). The Democratic ads have done something new - attacked the GOP candidates in very personal terms.

OK. Are Obama's very obvious vanity (frequent GQ cover model) and his flexible principles when it comes to his personal ambition (breaking his promise to take public campaign funds) fair game now? Not to say his judgment in close associates - Ayers, Rezko, Wright. The media has given him a pass on these matters, so they will have to be brought up in attack ads. Then this column will deplore the negative tone of the McCain forces.

Gee, I remember when campaign contributions were a big ethical issue in the political press, too, back when the GOP was out-fund-raising the Democrats. I guess it just depends.

Posted by: Mark Richard | September 16, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Obama is becoming a joker.


First he decided to attack Sarah Palin - that didn't work and he ended up sinking in the polls.


Then Obama decided to be the angry man - actually committing fraud against his self-constructed image of hope - he came off all angry and mean - and that didn't work


NOW Obama is attempting to put out a vague "My economic plan is better than yours" - again vague from Obama - the problem is that Obama has been championing all these new government programs for his entire campaign -


These additional government programs will require higher taxes.


OBAMA WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TAX THIS NATION OUT OF ITS ECONOMIC MESS.


YOU ARE A MORON IF YOU THINK HE CAN DO THAT.


Obama is pointing everyone in the wrong direction.


Obama's people are left hoping for a better economic program - or even an economic program that works.


Obama's only economic or business experience is buying cocaine.


Seriously people Obama knows NOTHING about the economy.


Obama has built his entire career on maxing out every affirmative action program he could find until he turned the democratic delegate selection process into one giant affirmative action program including stopping Michigan and Florida voters from counting fully.


What a jokster - A Voter really has to be nuts to vote for Obama and risk the Economy on an inexperience affirmative action guy like Obama. And risk the National Security of this nation on an affirmative action guy like Obama.


.

Posted by: 37th&OStreet | September 16, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Ny state has always been a blue state so that new conspiracy theory will not work. It shows the repubs scare tactics at its best lol its just too funny. OBAMBI is gearing for his october suprise on palin and senile old man i have heard its BIG this one will sink the republicans big time. Haven't you wondered why obama is so confident all the sudden and has not been doing that much of attacking? Think about it if he was that down in the polls for reals he would have been just as rabid as hillary was when she knew she had lost. Just wait for it OBAMBI did not payed 40 plus investigators to be sent to alaska 5 millions dollars for nothing.

Posted by: m | September 16, 2008 1:11 AM | Report abuse

I think Republicans should keep on going with the lying thing. It really suits them. And the American electorate really loves this assumption that they are too stupid to notice or care.

Posted by: drossless | September 16, 2008 12:38 AM | Report abuse

SWIFT BOAT THIS, PLEASE

PALIN SHOULD EVEN SCARE EVANGELICALS

This is an excerpt from an article and interview Mr. Bess, an 80 year old, straight,
married former minister who has compassion for gays.
He is a true, tolerant
Christian.
He has known Palin for years.

HIS IS THE BOOK PALIN WANTED TO BAN FROM THE LIBRAY!

BE AFRAID, PLEASE

"Another valley activist, Philip Munger, says that Palin also helped push the evangelical drive
to take over the Mat-Su Borough school board. "She wanted to get people who believed in
creationism on the board," said Munger, a music composer and teacher. "I bumped into her
once after my band played at a graduation ceremony at the Assembly of God. I said, 'Sarah,
how can you believe in creationism -- your father's a science teacher.' And she said,
'We don't have to agree on everything.'


"I pushed her on the earth's creation, whether it was really less than 7,000 years old and whether
dinosaurs and humans walked the earth at the same time. And she said yes, she'd seen images
somewhere of dinosaur fossils with human footprints in them."

Munger also asked Palin if she truly believed in the End of Days, the doomsday scenario when
the Messiah will return. "She looked in my eyes and said, 'Yes, I think I will see Jesus come back
to earth in my lifetime.'"

Bess is unnerved by the prospect of Palin -- a woman whose mind is given to dogmatic certitude
-- standing one step away from the Oval Office. "It's truly frightening that someone like Sarah has
risen to the national level," Bess said. "Like all religious fundamentalists -- Christian, Jewish, Muslim --
she is a dualist. They view life as an ongoing struggle to the finish between good and evil.

Their mind-set is that you do not do business with evil -- you destroy it. Talking with the enemy
is not part of their plan. That puts someone like Obama on the side of evil.


"Forget all this chatter about whether or not she knows what the Bush doctrine is. That's trivial.
The real disturbing thing about Sarah is her mind-set. It's her underlying belief system that will influence
how she responds in an international crisis,
if she's ever in that position,
and has the full might of the
U.S. military in her hands.

She gave some indication of that thinking in her ABC interview,
when she suggested how willing she would be to go to war with Russia.

"Alaskans liked that certitude when she was dealing with corrupt politicians
and the oil industry -- and there is something admirable about it. But when
you're dealing with a complex and dangerous world as commander in chief,
that's a different story."

Bess said that he and fellow valley residents have long been charmed by the
Sarah Palin who is now dazzling the American public. Despite their strong
political differences, "she always has a warm greeting for me when we
bump into each other.

She's the most charming person you'll ever know."

"But," Bess adds, "this person's election would be
a disaster for the country and the world."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/15/bess/index1.html

Enough said.

Do we want to risk having an American Christian Taliban in the USA?
Research Joel's Army. Very Scary, tatoo sporting, Soldiers for Christ people.

And I am a devout Christian. His way is not militant.

Blessed are the peacemakers.

Love one another.

"I am willing to die for my cause, but I an not willing to kill for it"
Ghandi

Lastly, I am convinced that both evolution and creationism happened on
our earth. That is why there is a missing link.

Why not both. Parallel creations on one planet.

Posted by: There is no anonymous anymore | September 16, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin lies too easily.... not my idea of God-like

Posted by: nerakami | September 15, 2008 11:50 PM | Report abuse

Given that Enron-linked....

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A01E0D81038F934A25752C0A9649C8B63


..former senator, McCain economic advisor, and mortgage-industry-specializing banking lobbyist Phil Gramm...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24844889/


...has been credited as mover and shaker behind the very law that allowed the current financial meltdown to happen, I'd love to hear what McCain and Gramm think should be done to solve this crisis?

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080701_Dave_Davies__A_few_minutes_with_McCain.html


As of yet, of course, their only response is to deny that any of it is significant. No problem, everything's fine. Sure, people are losing their homes to foreclosure; sure, investors are being wiped out. But hey, aside from that, everything's peachy.


Nonetheless... since McCain has indeed pegged Gramm as "one of the smartest person in the world" when it comes to economics, I'm dying to find out what Phil Gramm thinks should be done to fix the problem that Phil Gramm and the other lets-deregulate-everything Republicans helped create.


Maybe drilling will fix it? HAHAHA!!!


Maybe more deregulation will allow the free market to something something something?


Maybe if we had poured all our Social Security into these institutions, this would never have happened, because the free market dictates that private retirement investments always go up. Just like how dropped toast always lands on its edge?


Maybe the Republicans have invented a machine to convert crap into gold?


Maybe Lehman Brothers should have sold more stuff on eBay?


No, seriously -- I'm all ears. What's your advice to America this time, Gramm? McCain?.....even..maybe..Palin?!?!

Posted by: Hockey Mom For Obama/Biden | September 15, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Hey Crystal,

I don't have a problem with you being a lesbian but I do find it shocking that a gay person like yourself would be so willing to vote for someone (Palin) who believes that gay people deserve to burn in hell for all of eternity...

Posted by: huh? | September 15, 2008 11:31 PM | Report abuse

EXPOSE STATE-SUPPORTED VIGILANTE SQUADS DOING 'DOMESTIC TERRORISM'


• Congress must probe unlawful targeting of American citizens by vigilantes hiding behind government-funded volunteer programs

• Due process denied, Constitution discarded by "extra-legal control mechanism" said to resemble the KKK, the Stasi and the Nazi Gestapo

• A cause of the crisis in the mortgage and credit markets?

• When will Chertoff, McConnell, Mukasey, Mueller, Gates and Paulson take action?


A virulent form of "domestic terrorism" is destroying the rule of law in America.

Victims of so-called organized "gang stalking" or "community stalking" charge that the rule of law has broken down nationwide at the hands of state-supported vigilantes -- operating under the cover of citizen "volunteer" programs and various "service" corps.

Organized groups of private citizens, funded by elements of government at multiple levels, are the backbone of an "extra legal" control mechanism that its victims say is denying citizens their constitutional right of due process under the law. Victims of this extra-legal network maintain that these vigilantes are functioning outside the legal system as judge, jury and executioner -- meting out various forms of harassment and abuse.

Victims call it "domestic terrorism" and they allege that their human rights are being violated.

Those who have been targeted by these groups say this vigilante militia is patrolling the streets, stalking and harassing, inflicting physical harm upon people who have been targeted by this extra-legal control mechanism. Some victims have moved to other cities and towns to escape the persecution -- but they say the vigilantism recurs in their new locale.

"It appears to be a nationwide network that attracts right-wing extremists as well as law and order types and people connected to public safety such as firefighters, police auxiliaries, retired police and military officers, and even their family members," says one victim, who says he has been "gang-stalked" for several years. "I doubt it could exist without some people in positions of power looking the other way."

Even some regular, uniformed police are reported to have been intimidated by this network of extra-legal control, using volunteer citizens as the "street muscle."

Victims say that in addition to being physically harassed, their property is being vandalized; their privacy is being invaded; their mail is intercepted, financial accounts and billing statements altered, family finances decimated; and their physical well-being has been compromised using hi-tech instruments such as "directed energy weapons" that emit silent bursts of radiation -- lasers, microwaves, x-rays, even sonic frequencies -- that can disable, main, induce illness or even kill.

"This is torture that's happening right here, in American cities and towns," says one alleged victim. "But it's like pre- World War II Germany; people refuse to believe that such abuses could happen in a civilized society. But it is happening. And I'm convinced that local and federal authorities not only have knowledge of this extra-legal targeting, but are providing funding and direction.

"I know the FBI knows about it, because I've been down there several times over the past two years to report it." He says he knows of no formal investigation, despite his offers to cooperate.

"I'm not saying they know of the worst abuses, such as using microwaves on targeted persons to degrade their health and make it impossible for them to earn a living. But they must know that these citizen patrols are doing a lot more than just cruising around the neighborhood. "

Citizens who have reported abuses say their complaints are typically ignored -- or that authorities insinuate that their claims are figments of their imagination, or are a manifestation of a mental illness such as paranoia.

"That appears to be part of the M-O," says one victim. "You haven't done anything wrong, so they can't charge you with a crime. So they attempt to make it look like you're crazy. That's how they marginalize people who don't fit in with their world view."

This victim believes the vigilante network is a convenient way for those in power to dispense with persons they simply don't like, or whose political or social views do not hew to what they regard as the established order.

Victims also believe that a network of government programs and agencies works in tandem with the extra-legal vigilante system to destroy their financial security. They allege that the crisis in the mortgage and credit markets may have been worsened by these programs, which they say are sapping the financial well-being of individuals and families without benefit of the right of due process.

Some victims wonder whether these extra-legal programs didn't create those financial crises in the first place. "We haven't had these kind of widespread financial woes for sixty years," a gang-stalking victim said. "You have to wonder if these programs weren't a blueprint for an ideologically-motivated purge."

Some of the agencies looking into the mortgage and credit market problems may have had long-standing knowledge of these programs, according to victims, who are calling on Congress to investigate.

"The issue of state-supported vigilantism and extra-legal control represents an assault on our judicial system that makes Watergate look like the third-rate burglary that it started out to be," says one gang-stalking victim. "Since government agencies appear to be involved in funding these programs, it's up to Congress to investigate, to use its powers of oversight to ensure that democracy and the rule of law prevails -- and not the law of the jungle."

President Clinton often talked about "the politics of personal destruction." Hillary Clinton warned against the "vast right-wing conspiracy," a concern she reaffirmed, albeit in milder descriptive language, in her autobiography, "Living History."

The network of programs and policies that are allegedly circumventing the judicial system, violating constitutional rights and meting out vigilante justice, might collectively be termed the MECHANICS of personal destruction.

Were Bill and Hillary Clinton trying to warn the rest of us about an evil that even the power of the presidency could not keep in check?

The entire electoral process is being marginalized, relegated to little more than window dressing, as true power is stolen away by a neo-fascist element that has found a way to seize the reins of power and authority. It is analogous to what John Dean called "a cancer" -- not just on the presidency, but on the entire body politic.

Amazing as it sounds, this powerful apparatus appears to exist under the radar of most elected members of Congress. Those who should know, perhaps they believe such programs exist to target "terrorists," so-called enemies of the state. They naively refuse to believe that these programs, over time, appear to have morphed into a vast system of extra-legal vigilante control not unlike the East German Stasi, the KKK of the old South, the Gestapo of the Nazi Third Reich -- and that these programs effectively deny innocent American citizens their constitutional rights.

This appears to be nothing less than neo-fascism under the guise of "national security" and "keeping America safe." And liberals and progressives, who arguably are represented among the targets of these programs, naively insist that "it can't happen here." Only the Libertarians seem to perceive the threat.

Whoever is elected the next president will inherit these programs. That person, if he learns of such programs, is likely to be told of their necessity and propriety -- that such an extra-legal control mechanism, employing citizen vigilantes and extra-legal programs targeting financial resources, can co-exist with democracy.

In fact, this extra-legal control mechanism is destroying our democracy; much damage already has been done. Individuals and families are being slowly destroyed. Some call it a "silent holocaust" due to its clandestine nature and the use of silent, invisible "directed energy" technology.

Below are links to the articles about this imminent danger to our constitutional democracy. I urge lawmakers and congressional committee staffers to do some research, and start asking some tough questions, starting with the Department of Homeland Security:

"Mr. Chertoff, are you aware that many Americans believe they have been the victims of so-called community or gang stalking, possibly perpetrated by persons equipped and trained by federally funded volunteer programs under your charge? Have you heard of such reports, and are you investigating to ensure that these programs and their resources are not being misused?"

That would be a good place to start. It apparently goes much broader and deeper; but the curative process must begin before more Americans are seriously damaged by this descent from the rule of law to the nihilist rule of the jungle.

A FINAL NOTE: The writer's communications are subject to persistent disruption and tampering by unknown hackers. Please consider forwarding the links below to people you know at the ALCU.org, CCRjustice.org, or any other group that could help protect our civil liberties from this dangerous encroachment.


http://www.nowpublic.com/world/get-political-vic-livingston-opinion-expose-state-supported-vigilante-squads-doing-domestic-terrorism

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/zap-have-you-been-targeted-directed-energy-weapon-victims-organized-gang-stalking-say-its-happening-usa-1

OR search www.nowpublic.com/scrivener

Posted by: scrivener | September 15, 2008 11:24 PM | Report abuse

adipex

If that is an antidepressant
you will make a killing
after these bots
get suicidal..
about
nov 5th.

Posted by: simonsays1 | September 15, 2008 11:20 PM | Report abuse

you obamabots
can waste all your time
on these blogs,
and you will still lose,
most americans are not
lost in the 60's.
worshipping a media created
44 year old,
who has never had a real job.
my god, talk about a sad
excuse for a resume'
I sucked up to mayor daly.
I rewrote a few bobby kennedy speechs,
I made some old white guys cry,
'we have found our boy'
good luck with the anti depressants
after the landslide.

Posted by: USA3 | September 15, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

My life's been basically dull these days.
I haven't gotten much done these days.
Today was a complete loss.
adipex free shipping
http://adipexadipexonl.blog.ijijiji.com

Posted by: cheap adipex | September 15, 2008 11:15 PM | Report abuse

Pfft. Yet another lie. Yet another easy debunking. Yet another time to ask the question: why on earth would they even bother lying on this stuff?


At a fundraiser in Canton, Ohio, this evening, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin had an interesting description of her speech to the Republican convention.


"There Ohio was right out in front, right in front of me," Palin said. "The teleprompter got messed up, I couldn't follow it, and I just decided I'd just talk to the people in front of me. It was Ohio."


Nope. Didn't happen.


This struck many of us -- who, as she spoke, followed along with her prepared remarks, and noted how closely she stuck to the script -- as an unusual claim. (Especially those of my colleagues on the convention floor at the time, reading along on the prompter with her, noticing her excellent and disciplined delivery, how she punched words that were underlined and paused where it said "pause," noting that "nuclear" was spelled out for her phonetically.) [...]


"The teleprompter did not break," wrote Politico's Jonathan Martin. "Sarah Palin delivered a powerful speech last night, but she did not 'wing it'..."
.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/palin-and-the-t.html
.


I mean, c'mon. We've already gone past Mencken's prophecied point, happily electing an outright moron, but is it truly necessary to make Orwell obsolete as well? This one is just stupid -- lying for the sake of lying. Lying, frankly, like a child.


McCain and Palin don't just lie about big things, like tax policy, Iraq and the economy. They even lie about petty trivialities -- any tiny little thing is fair game, if it lets them preen for a moment in front of their audiences.


LIARS!
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH0xzsogzAk
.

Posted by: McCain/Palin = LIARS! | September 15, 2008 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Dear McCain = Bush's third term,

Your arrogance is surpassed only by your ignorance. What many of you angry liberals fail to ralize is that the average McCain/Palin voter is intelligent, hard-working, thoughtful and patriotic. We are not the bible-thumping, gun-toting, drones you make us out to be. You may not recognize us, but we are all around you.

-An Agnostic, Vegetarian, PhD, Female Homosexual McCain/Palin Supporter.

Posted by: Crystal | September 15, 2008 4:59 PM
================================================


That's a good one Houston.


The only intelligent McCain supporters I have come across are the ones who vote Republican because they are in the upper 10% income bracket and know they won't get taxed. Or they are both rich and in the oil business......They also think Palin is ridiculous and McCain is a liar.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2008 10:50 PM | Report abuse

.

This is a serious issue and all the talk about calling the Governor of Alaksa names and a pig and apparently today a poster called her a Moose is distracting - however the poster at 5:08 Scott under The Fix's entry "FixCam Week in Preview" is correct - there is a distinct possibility that Obama boke Federal law if Obama sought to negotiate a deal with the Iraqi government involving US Troops and their movements within Iraq during this summer.


Obama has got to be kidding to try something like this.


The Logan Act is a Federal law which seeks to clarify that the President and the administration is the sole representative of the United States in foreign and military affairs. Legislators can not go off and start negotiating and making deals with foreign nations - if they attempt to do that they violate Federal law.


Any Campaign should be careful to stay out of foreign policy in the year before the election -


Our national security depends on respect for this clarity - this story is OUTRAGEOUS - THE STORY IS OBAMA WANTS THE WAR TO CONTINUE FOR HIS OWN PERSONAL POLITICAL BENEFIT.


Is Obama for the war or against the war?


The truth is: Obama is against the war when he wants the anti-war votes AND he is for the war when he CALCULATES THAT CONTINUING THE WAR WILL GET HIM MORE VOTES IN NOVEMBER.


OBAMA IS AN EXTREMELY SICK MAN TO PLAY WITH THE LIVES OF OUR MILITARY MEN AND WOMEN THIS WAY.


In fact, it is more than the potential violations of the Logan Federal Act - it could be TREASON to start negotiating a separate military policy when one is not the President especially when the American servicemen are risking their lives in the war zone.

.

Posted by: 37th&OStreet | September 15, 2008 10:46 PM | Report abuse

To the poster at 7:54 Let me get this correct - you are at Obama headquarters - you are a paid Obama staffer - and you have just called the Governor of Alaska a Moose ??? Is that correct????

.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2008 10:45 PM | Report abuse

.


Voted One of the Nation's Best Blogs for the Election of 2008:


http://www.myspace.com/37thandostreet

Bookmark it now !


.


.


Voted One of the Nation's Best Blogs for the Election of 2008:


http://www.myspace.com/37thandostreet

Bookmark it now !


.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

The U. S. Congress should approve any "status of forces" agreement (read TREATY) with Iraq negotiated by President Bush.

Bush should not be allowed to negotiate and approve without Congressional oversight a permanent military presence or any agreement with no time table for withdrawal.

The Iraqi Prime Minister must submit any status of forces agreement to the Iraqi Parliament for approval.

The U. S. should do no less. (What's the matter? Afraid to put the treaty to a vote?)

The incumbent shredder of the Constitution and his VP have done enought damage.

Posted by: toritto | September 15, 2008 9:07 PM | Report abuse

It continues to amaze me how the politicians believe and still continue to count on the American public not to remember anything more than six months...and look, for once during this entire eight years of Bush-time the politicians are correct--we have all forgotton the loss of jobs, income, and integrity this country once prided itself on! Wake up! Swift Boat Org has no integrity and Bush BS'ers need to be held accountable! As a Vietnam vet myself, I like John McCain; but, can not give him my vote this time because of what I've had to live through the last 7 1/2 years!! Go Obama!

Posted by: Had Enough | September 15, 2008 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Hey - I keep being teased by this guy who says he has Xena fan fiction on MySpace, but it's just his dumb cut-and-paste stuff. I can get that here! When am I going to get the Gossip Girl stuff he promised?

Posted by: Meshuginnah | September 15, 2008 8:08 PM | Report abuse

All things Gossip Girl to be found at"

http://www.myspace.com/37thandostreet

Come be my BFF! XOXOXOXOXOXO

Posted by: 37th&OAvenue | September 15, 2008 8:06 PM | Report abuse

37th & O -- you want to talk about treason? How about John McCain's admissions in a NY Times' profile that he shared confidential Naval documents with favored Senators while he was Navy Aide to the Senate to help overturn Carter Administration policies? He calls it being a "maverick" the military code calls it insubordination and treason. And how about his serial adulteries -- hey, I don't make the rules, the military's the one who says those violate their code and are worthy of court martial -- again, he's admitted to this stuff. And he used his Senate position to smuggle booze into observant nations on behalf of alcoholic senators like John Tower, placing the empty bottles in front of the French mission's rooms -- wow, what a barrel of laughs THAT was. Could have started an international incident but, hey, boys will be boys! Son of an alcoholic with anger management issues honed over decades John McCain has neither the judgment, physical health nor temperament to be President and now naming Ms. Alaskan Moose to be his VP seals the certainty that they are not ready to lead.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2008 7:54 PM | Report abuse

.

Voted One of the Nation's Best Blogs for the Election of 2008:


http://www.myspace.com/37thandostreet


Bookmark it now !

.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2008 7:33 PM | Report abuse


.


The poster at 5:08 Scott under The Fix's entry "FixCam Week in Preview" is correct - there is a distinct possibility that Obama boke Federal law if Obama sought to negotiate a deal with the Iraqi government involving US Troops and their movements within Iraq during this summer.


Obama has got to be kidding to try something like this.


The Logan Act is a Federal law which seeks to clarify that the President and the administration is the sole representative of the United States in foreign and military affairs. Legislators can not go off and start negotiating and making deals with foreign nations - if they attempt to do that they violate Federal law.


Any Campaign should be careful to stay out of foreign policy in the year before the election -


Our national security depends on respect for this clarity - this story is OUTRAGEOUS - THE STORY IS OBAMA WANTS THE WAR TO CONTINUE FOR HIS OWN PERSONAL POLITICAL BENEFIT.


Is Obama for the war or against the war?


The truth is: Obama is against the war when he wants the anti-war votes AND he is for the war when he CALCULATES THAT CONTINUING THE WAR WILL GET HIM MORE VOTES IN NOVEMBER.


OBAMA IS AN EXTREMELY SICK MAN TO PLAY WITH THE LIVES OF OUR MILITARY MEN AND WOMEN THIS WAY.


In fact, it is more than the potential violations of the Logan Federal Act - it is TREASON to start negotiating a separate military policy when one is not the President especially when the American servicemen are risking their lives in the war zone.


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Posted by: 37th&OStreet | September 15, 2008 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: scrivener | September 15, 2008 7:15 PM | Report abuse

37th&O, you gotta write something original and stop posting identical pieces on different blogs!

Bummed to see the Swifties back in the news. As if the "sound economy" wasn't depressing enough.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2008 7:12 PM | Report abuse

.

McCain is the right man to lead this nation out of the economic mess which in great part is the Clinton administration's fault 100% - McCain wants to slam the lobbyists which is great for the economy.


In sharp contrast Obama has no business or economic experience except for buying cocaine.


Seriously why go with an inexperience and untested person who can not even handle the Sarah Palin pick without panic and making mistakes - McCain is the steady hand with the right instincts.


McCain is battle tested.


Compared to being in a Vietnamese prison camp, this economic situation is a walk in the park - in fact it's a walk in the park on a sunny day. McCain knows who the brightest and best advisors are to go to in order to formulate economic strategies which will get the economy humming again.


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Posted by: 37th&OStreet | September 15, 2008 7:01 PM | Report abuse

REMEMBER SPIRO AGNEW?

Am I the only one who sees what is going on here with Palin? We all know she has no qualifications and she was just picked as window dressing and as a stooge to say what ever they put in her mouth. No candidate in their right mind would really want her on their ticket. This is what I think will happen and may already be secretly in the plan.

If Mccain manages to get elected, they will get rid of Palin as soon as they can, using all of the scandal surrounding her as the reason. There is already information of drug use by her son and both daughters and Enquirer has eluded to something coming out about Palin and her husband are regular drug users. Once rid of her, Mcain then will put in Lieberman like he wanted to all along and that is how it will play out. What do you think, make sense?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2008 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Anonymous - that trash is best left where you found it - at the enquirer. If voters want to decide how to vote based on the candidates' children, they can go to such sources directly. There's no need for you to bring that crap here.

Posted by: bsimon | September 15, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Scott,

Ok, so one poll in NY says it's even remotely close, and that's what you base your opposition to what I said on?

That's what's called an "outlier". The Siena poll is the only one that's had NY in single digits in the last 4 months. Those guys must be using a Ouija board and Westchester County to get their polling sample.

As for the Iraq story you're shilling around here, all I can say is it's coming from Jonah Goldberg. I'm a lot more inclined to believe anything written in the Enquirer than from Jonah Goldberg. They guy makes Bill O'Reilly look like Edward R. Murrow.

Posted by: JamesCH | September 15, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

In a twisted sort of way I almost hope that McCain does win this election because four more years of Bush/McCain failed policies would for all intents and puposes end the Republican Party as we know it today. They would become the 4th party gadflies that they deserve to be.

For all of you idiots in economic downtrodden states like Ohio, Pa and Michigan, you'll deserve what you get if you are actually stupid enough to vote for John McBush and Caribou Barbie..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnb2IrsU1Cg
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Posted by: ex-Republican | September 15, 2008 5:10 PM | Report abuse


Right off the bat on Sept. 3rd the republicans tried to push back these stories of Palins affair that they reported and threatened the Enquirer. The Enquirer shot right back with you ain't seen nothing yet they have dug up so much dirt it will make their heads spin. The republicans have not had a word to say since Sept 3rd. as the Enquirer is rolling out what they know a little at a time. There is supposed to be something coming soon regarding abortions.
--


The NATIONAL ENQUIRER’S exclusive ongoing investigation of GOP VP Nom Sarah 'Barracuda' Palin’s goes far beyond a mere teen pregnancy crisis this week!

The Enquirer’s team of reporters has combed the Alaskan wilderness to discover the hidden truth about Gov. Palin’s family, which has become a central part of her political identity.

The ENQUIRER has learned exclusively that Sarah's oldest son, Track, was addicted to the power drug OxyContin for nearly the past two years, snorting it, eating it, smoking it and even injecting it. And as Track, 19, heads to Iraq as part of the U.S. armed forces, Sarah and her husband Todd were powerless to stop his wild antics, detailed in the new issue of The ENQUIRER, which goes on sale today.

THE ENQUIRER also has exclusive details about Track's use of other drugs, including cocaine, and his involvement in a notorious local vandalism incident.

“I’ve partied with him (Track) for years,” a source disclosed. “I’ve seen him snort cocaine, snort and smoke OxyContin, drink booze and smoke weed.”

The source also divulged the girls would do anything for Track and he’d use his local celebrity status to manipulate other guys “to get them to steal things he wanted.”

“He finally did what a lot of troubled kids here do,” the source divulged. “You join the military.”

And as Gov. Palin has billed the state of Alaska for various expenses related to her children, as reported by The Washington Post, The ENQUIRER's investigation reveals that she was so incensed by 17-year-old Bristol's pregnancy that she banished her daughter from the house.

Another family friend revealed pre-prego Bristol was as much of a hard partier as Track was.

“Bristol was a huge stoner and drinker. I’ve seen her smoke pot and get drunk and make out with so many guys. All the guys would brag that the just made out with Bristol.”

When Sarah found out the teen was pregnant by high schooler Levi Johnston, she was actually banished from the house. As part of the cover-up, Palin quickly transferred Bristol to another high school and made her move in with Sarah’s sister Heather 25 miles away!

And the ENQUIRER also learned that Levi Johnston, the baby mamma’s future wedded dada, who was glad handed by John McCain at the GOP Convention, isn’t too happy about his impending shotgun nups either.

“Levi got dragged out of the house to go to Minnesota,” Levi’s friend told The ENQUIRER. “Levi realizes he’s stuck being with Bristol because her mom is running for Vice President.”

The friend also confided that both Bristol and Levi “broke up a few times and they definitely messed around with other people.”

Meanwhile, as members of the Palin family’s war viciously over “Trooper-Gate” and claims of Sarah’s extramarital affair have turned the political race into a chaotic arena of threats, denials and vicious attacks by political black ops, The ENQUIRER has discovered shocking new details about the red-hot affair scandal!

For the full story of the secrets Sarah Palin is trying to hide – pick up the new ENQUIRER!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2008 4:55 PM

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Dear McCain = Bush's third term,

Your arrogance is surpassed only by your ignorance. What many of you angry liberals fail to ralize is that the average McCain/Palin voter is intelligent, hard-working, thoughtful and patriotic. We are not the bible-thumping, gun-toting, drones you make us out to be. You may not recognize us, but we are all around you.

-An Agnostic, Vegetarian, PhD, Female Homosexual McCain/Palin Supporter.

Posted by: Crystal | September 15, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

John McCain has driven his Straight Talk Express bus into a muck-filled swamp where it is spinning its wheels.

Posted by: Francie | September 15, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Scott-
perhaps you should take that article with a grain of salt.

Posted by: bsimon | September 15, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

But if McCain is going that route then the Democrats will have to also. -Tricia-

Tricia do you NOT remember Baby Alex and the 100 year war? Who ran that MONTHS AGO?
Well Tricia, how this this strike you?---

Here's truth straight from Iraq's Foreign minister-

Monday, September 15, 2008


Did Obama Violate The Logan Act? [Jonah Goldberg]


Amir Taheri:

WHILE campaigning in public for a speedy withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, Sen. Barack Obama has tried in private to persuade Iraqi leaders to delay an agreement on a draw-down of the American military presence.

According to Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, Obama made his demand for delay a key theme of his discussions with Iraqi leaders in Baghdad in July.

"He asked why we were not prepared to delay an agreement until after the US elections and the formation of a new administration in Washington," Zebari said in an interview.

Obama insisted that Congress should be involved in negotiations on the status of US troops - and that it was in the interests of both sides not to have an agreement negotiated by the Bush administration in its "state of weakness and political confusion."

"However, as an Iraqi, I prefer to have a security agreement that regulates the activities of foreign troops, rather than keeping the matter open." Zebari says.

Though Obama claims the US presence is "illegal," he suddenly remembered that Americans troops were in Iraq within the legal framework of a UN mandate. His advice was that, rather than reach an accord with the "weakened Bush administration," Iraq should seek an extension of the UN mandate.

While in Iraq, Obama also tried to persuade the US commanders, including Gen. David Petraeus, to suggest a "realistic withdrawal date." They declined.
____

In 1975, Senators John Sparkman and George McGovern were accused of violating the Logan Act when they traveled to Cuba and met with officials there. In considering that case, the U.S. Department of State concluded:

The clear intent of this provision [Logan Act] is to prohibit unauthorized persons from intervening in disputes between the United States and foreign governments. Nothing in section 953 [Logan Act], however, would appear to restrict members of the Congress from engaging in discussions with foreign officials in pursuance of their legislative duties under the Constitution. In the case of Senators McGovern and Sparkman the executive branch, although it did not in any way encourage the Senators to go to Cuba , was fully informed of the nature and purpose of their visit, and had validated their passports for travel to that country. Senator McGovern’s report of his discussions with Cuban officials states: "I made it clear that I had no authority to negotiate on behalf of the United States — that I had come to listen and learn...." (Cuban Realities: May 1975, 94th Cong., 1st Sess., August 1975).

OBAMA CAME TO NEGOTIATE A POLITICALLY EXPEDIENT DELAY IN THE WITHDRAWL OF OUR TROOPS- WAS HE AFRAID THE "100 YEARS WAR" CLAIM WOULD BE CONSIDERED THE JOKE IT ALWAYS WAS?

WHAT A HYPOCRITE !!!

WELL AT LEAST HE'LL HAVE ONE MORE THING IN COMMON WITH MCGOVERN AFTER NOVEMBER!

Posted by: Scott | September 15, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

The NATIONAL ENQUIRER’S exclusive ongoing investigation of GOP VP Nom Sarah 'Barracuda' Palin’s goes far beyond a mere teen pregnancy crisis this week!

The Enquirer’s team of reporters has combed the Alaskan wilderness to discover the hidden truth about Gov. Palin’s family, which has become a central part of her political identity.

The ENQUIRER has learned exclusively that Sarah's oldest son, Track, was addicted to the power drug OxyContin for nearly the past two years, snorting it, eating it, smoking it and even injecting it. And as Track, 19, heads to Iraq as part of the U.S. armed forces, Sarah and her husband Todd were powerless to stop his wild antics, detailed in the new issue of The ENQUIRER, which goes on sale today.

THE ENQUIRER also has exclusive details about Track's use of other drugs, including cocaine, and his involvement in a notorious local vandalism incident.

“I’ve partied with him (Track) for years,” a source disclosed. “I’ve seen him snort cocaine, snort and smoke OxyContin, drink booze and smoke weed.”

The source also divulged the girls would do anything for Track and he’d use his local celebrity status to manipulate other guys “to get them to steal things he wanted.”

“He finally did what a lot of troubled kids here do,” the source divulged. “You join the military.”

And as Gov. Palin has billed the state of Alaska for various expenses related to her children, as reported by The Washington Post, The ENQUIRER's investigation reveals that she was so incensed by 17-year-old Bristol's pregnancy that she banished her daughter from the house.

Another family friend revealed pre-prego Bristol was as much of a hard partier as Track was.

“Bristol was a huge stoner and drinker. I’ve seen her smoke pot and get drunk and make out with so many guys. All the guys would brag that the just made out with Bristol.”

When Sarah found out the teen was pregnant by high schooler Levi Johnston, she was actually banished from the house. As part of the cover-up, Palin quickly transferred Bristol to another high school and made her move in with Sarah’s sister Heather 25 miles away!

And the ENQUIRER also learned that Levi Johnston, the baby mamma’s future wedded dada, who was glad handed by John McCain at the GOP Convention, isn’t too happy about his impending shotgun nups either.

“Levi got dragged out of the house to go to Minnesota,” Levi’s friend told The ENQUIRER. “Levi realizes he’s stuck being with Bristol because her mom is running for Vice President.”

The friend also confided that both Bristol and Levi “broke up a few times and they definitely messed around with other people.”

Meanwhile, as members of the Palin family’s war viciously over “Trooper-Gate” and claims of Sarah’s extramarital affair have turned the political race into a chaotic arena of threats, denials and vicious attacks by political black ops, The ENQUIRER has discovered shocking new details about the red-hot affair scandal!

For the full story of the secrets Sarah Palin is trying to hide – pick up the new ENQUIRER!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 15, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

JamesCH-

McCain's "PUNCHED HIMSELF OUT?" Check OUT New York State Siena Poll TODAY! IS NY a BLUE State or a RED State? (I can never remember) Looks like the second coming of George McGovern (Obama lead 21% in 1st wk August-down to 5% today)...wait until more of us read about Obama's Hypocricy in Iraq- requesting troop withdrawl delay!

Posted by: Scott | September 15, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

When I saw Sarah Palin today on TV all I could think of was Tina Fey!!! I think that SNL skit might have been the turning point in the Palin honeymoon with both voters and the media. Just crystalized the absurdity of the choice. The line about being able to "see Russia from my backyard" said it all!!!! Priceless!

As to these 527 type groups, I wish they could be totally banned. But if McCain is going that route then the Democrats will have to also. But I hope their use is minimal on both sides.

Posted by: Tricia | September 15, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Here's truth straight from Iraq's Foreign minister-

Monday, September 15, 2008


Did Obama Violate The Logan Act? [Jonah Goldberg]


Amir Taheri:

WHILE campaigning in public for a speedy withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, Sen. Barack Obama has tried in private to persuade Iraqi leaders to delay an agreement on a draw-down of the American military presence.

According to Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, Obama made his demand for delay a key theme of his discussions with Iraqi leaders in Baghdad in July.

"He asked why we were not prepared to delay an agreement until after the US elections and the formation of a new administration in Washington," Zebari said in an interview.

Obama insisted that Congress should be involved in negotiations on the status of US troops - and that it was in the interests of both sides not to have an agreement negotiated by the Bush administration in its "state of weakness and political confusion."

"However, as an Iraqi, I prefer to have a security agreement that regulates the activities of foreign troops, rather than keeping the matter open." Zebari says.

Though Obama claims the US presence is "illegal," he suddenly remembered that Americans troops were in Iraq within the legal framework of a UN mandate. His advice was that, rather than reach an accord with the "weakened Bush administration," Iraq should seek an extension of the UN mandate.

While in Iraq, Obama also tried to persuade the US commanders, including Gen. David Petraeus, to suggest a "realistic withdrawal date." They declined.
____

In 1975, Senators John Sparkman and George McGovern were accused of violating the Logan Act when they traveled to Cuba and met with officials there. In considering that case, the U.S. Department of State concluded:

The clear intent of this provision [Logan Act] is to prohibit unauthorized persons from intervening in disputes between the United States and foreign governments. Nothing in section 953 [Logan Act], however, would appear to restrict members of the Congress from engaging in discussions with foreign officials in pursuance of their legislative duties under the Constitution. In the case of Senators McGovern and Sparkman the executive branch, although it did not in any way encourage the Senators to go to Cuba , was fully informed of the nature and purpose of their visit, and had validated their passports for travel to that country. Senator McGovern’s report of his discussions with Cuban officials states: "I made it clear that I had no authority to negotiate on behalf of the United States — that I had come to listen and learn...." (Cuban Realities: May 1975, 94th Cong., 1st Sess., August 1975).

OBAMA CAME TO NEGOTIATE A POLITICALLY EXPEDIENT DELAY IN THE WITHDRAWL OF OUR TROOPS- WAS HE AFRAID THE "100 YEARS WAR" CLAIM WOULD BE CONSIDERED THE JOKE IT ALWAYS WAS?

WHAT A HYPOCRITE !!!

WELL AT LEAST HE'LL HAVE ONE MORE THING IN COMMON WITH MCGOVERN AFTER NOVEMBER!

Posted by: Scott | September 15, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Why the insinuations out there that McCain is behind this? Is there any evidence?

shopmccain.com

Posted by: McCain Supporter | September 15, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

The national polling data of the last few days seems to suggest that the McCain camp has punched itself out.

All the attention focused on the Palin pick and the GOP convention did exactly what they hoped it would: mitigate the Democratic bounce and turn it into a close race.

However, what they might have hoped would be a steady increase in their polling lead has topped out at about 1-4%, within the margin of error of any poll.

This election will be won or lost at the debates. If Obama/Biden keeps up this new push they launched this week, McCain and Palin will be forced to play defense in the debates. Instead of talking about an ill-defined, nebulous concept of "reform," they'll have to show up to the debates with concrete plans.

Ironically, this is exactly the position Obama was in earlier. His narrative was focused on "change" without giving solid proposals.

The difference is, if McCain and Palin fumble on this, they won't have enough time before election day to recover.

Posted by: JamesCH | September 15, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

The media - MSNBC, CNN, etc. - are FINALLY showing the forgotten man in this campaign - Joe Biden!!! He has been out there campaigning his heart out, but until today you wouldn't have known it! Finally today we are seeing lots of clips of a powerful and effective Biden calling McCain "Bush 44!!" Biden is a wonderful orator. He really gets the crowd jumping to their feet! Hope the cable networks will treat Biden fairly from now on and give him and Palin equal exposure! It's about time!! (And if McCain uses these outside groups then Obama should too.)

Posted by: Kathleen | September 15, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

The Straight Talk Express was just that; a really quick ride that's over before you know it. Now McCain is trying to take us all on the Slow Road to Hell.

Posted by: How it is | September 15, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

if your expecting americans to understand half truths and crap your going to be disapointed.Thomas Jefferson said if ever we allowed a central bank the corporations that grew up around it would bleed the people of thier wealth until thier children awoke homeless in the country thier fathers shed blood for.Have you heard of any home foreclosures lately?Face it americans for the most part are so ignorant they can't figure out if they make $50,000 a year they can't spend $5,000
a day.Even those that are bright enough to figure that out can't figure out that our government can't do it either.In short the media pretty much controls what the american people believe because they are to lazy to think for themselves.Which in turn means they'll take anything the media says as truth whether it is or not.The corporate controled media will decide who our next ceo will be.Thank god,I don't believe I could stand a government of the dolts,by the idiots,for the morons.

Posted by: pooty | September 15, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Blarg,

As a regular reader, you know I can't resist a good Simpsons reference.

Chris

Posted by: Chris CillizzA | September 15, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Well, if the GOP uses these groups then Obama should too. Fight fire with fire. I don't like it, but we saw what happened in 2004 to the Democrats. What I am SO happy to see is Obama's latest ad showing "quotes" from newspapers, etc. about how vile some of the recent McCain ads have been. McCain and the 'Rovian' Schmidt have really been disgraceful the last few weeks with the 'sex education' ad, 'lipsick' distortion, etc. I think it will backfire on McCain. His 'Straight Talk Express' looks like it has wildly veered off course into a ditch filled with mud.

Posted by: Anne | September 15, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Outsize influence for effete Chablis swigging Republicans with outsize mouths, but undersized intellects.

Posted by: How it is | September 15, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

"Prove us wrong donors. Prove us wrong."

Why would you want to be proven wrong? These outside groups aren't beneficial to the election process at all. They allow big-money donors to have outsized influence on the election, the situation that campaign finance laws are supposed to prevent. And they provide a way for a candidate to attack the opposition but preserve plausible deniability. ("I didn't say that my opponent committed treason; some independent group said it.")

Unless you just put that line in there for a Simpsons reference. In that case, I can't complain.

Posted by: Blarg | September 15, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Swift Boat redux? Hardly. With the economy in it's current state, the vast majority of American voters don't have the time or patience for Swift Vote nonsense and triviality.

Besides, the last time Swift Vote effected an election, they helped put George W Bush in office. 2008 will not be a good year for Bush supporters like Swift Vote. They are simply going to help out Obama by resurfacing this electoral year.

Posted by: ErrinF | September 15, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Civility is a principled behavior that should always be strived for; however, the people that would elect McCain after seeing the damage that bush and the republicans have done to this nation; the people who refuse to educate themselves on McCain's career of talking honorably while acting dishonorably time and time again; the people who would vote for an ignorant, arrogant person like Palin, after seeing what disasters have been inflicted by the ignorant, arrogant bush--these are people that inspire righteous anger rather than a benign, tolerant forbearance and yet more futile attempts to make them see the light.


Those who can overlook the hellishness that these "bushie" (now McCain) supporters have enabled over the last 8 years, and who can keep attempting to continue to have civil discourse with the close-minded are to be commended. As for me, I cannot.

Posted by: McCain = Bush's third term | September 15, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

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