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The Hofstra Hoopla: Handicapping the Final Debate



Workers walk from the site of Wednesday's scheduled presidential debate between Senators Barack Obama and John McCain at Hofstra University in Hempstead, N.Y. Tuesday, Oct. 14, 2008. (AP Photo/Seth Wenig)

The Fix is busy prepping (Read: drinking an untold number of pumpkin spice lattes from Starbucks) for our live Twitter of tonight's debate between John McCain and Barack Obama at Hofstra University.

Haven't heard about our twittering of the debates? First, where have you been? Second, it's not too late. You can sign up for The Fix feed and follow along with our observations, analysis -- and the occasional Simpsons reference -- starting at 9 p.m. ET tonight. (Don't know what Twitter is? Check this out.)

But we couldn't leave Fixistas without a few thoughts to chew on beforehand. Our handy-dandy handicapping is below.

We want to hear from you too. Who is going to win tonight's debate and, more importantly, why? Use the comments section to offer your thoughts.

• The debate's themes are the economy and domestic issues. Advantage: Obama

• State and national polling shows Obama widening his lead over McCain since last week's debate in Nashville. Advantage: Obama

• Obama is seen as having "won" the first two debates -- on points, not a knockout. Could the "McCain Makes His Stand" storyline be too good for the media to resist tonight? Advantage: McCain

• Whether or not McCain uses the words "Bill Ayers" or not tonight may not make a difference. Roughly two-thirds of those polled by CBS/New York Times said they had heard "a lot" or "some" about Ayers; more than half (56 percent) said, separately, that there was nothing about Obama's background that gave them pause about voting for him while nine percent said the Ayers connection bothered them and could affect their vote. Advantage: Obama

• The third debate should be -- theoretically -- the highest rated of the trio as it comes less than three weeks before the election as even casual voters are now tuning in. If a big audience does materialize, it represents McCain's last best chance to change things in a meaningful way. Advantage: McCain

• Seen through the prism of "Rocky," this debate should be a slugfest. In the first Rocky, both men were feeling each other out and neither could really claim victory at the end. The second Rocky was a disappointment. But, the third delivered huge thrills thanks to the brawl between Rocky and Clubber Lang. Advantage: Who Knows?

By Chris Cillizza  |  October 15, 2008; 12:00 PM ET
Categories:  Eye on 2008  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Obama Spending Dominance Continues
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Comments

The problem with the Right Wing is that they are "pro-life" only up to when the person is born. After birth, the child can starve, receive no health care, no housing, no education, can be sent to war for no reason and can be bombed/killed for any political agenda. Bush/McCain/Palin are just such Right Wing crazies. McCain voted against healthcare for poor children and Bush vetoed it. Bush/McCain were against more (any) assistance to poor Black people devastated by Hurricane Katrina. Bush had no problem lying to the American people and sending more Americans to die in Iraq than died in the World Trade Center. Clinton's order to deny Iraqi children infant formula and medicine caused the agonizing death of over 500 000 babies and children, yet both Clinton and Bush are "good" Christians - Bush even speaks directly with Jesus. "Pro-Life" is just a slogan.

Posted by: zakimar | October 17, 2008 8:09 AM | Report abuse

huckfin You say you are afraid of loosing you 401K? Why do you have a 401K? Why dont you give it to Obama now he can do a much better job managing it than you can. The patriotic thing to do would be to just open up your wallet and let him take what you have. Don't worry if there is any left over after distributing it to those that have less than you he will give some back.
No one should be allowed to have 401Ks! If you have extra money now you should be giving it to those that do not... that is after all the patriotic thing to do. Besides you can not be trust to make wise decision with your money anyway.
In case you did not notice I am being sarcastic. I know why you have a 401K, you understand social security will not be enough for you to live on if it is even still there when you retire. Do you know what a 401K is though? It is a form of privitized social security. I feel much more secure about my 401K than I do social security. Sure it is down now but I realize that the only way I will be able to retire is through my own investing and not through social security. I can count on something being in my 401K 30 years from now which is more than I can say about social security.

Posted by: ruchristian | October 16, 2008 6:54 PM | Report abuse

zakimar: "So Palin/McCain would appoint Judges that would stop women’s right to have a legal abortion (including when young girls are raped by their fathers) and Obama/Biden would appoint Judges that support the current RIGHT to choose."
True Obama/Biden would likely appoint judges that support the current right to kill a baby. The question is where did that right come from? It did not come from the constitution. It came from the judges in Roe vs. Wade. All the judges could do on the Supreme Court is revearse Roe Vs. Wade. That would not ban baby killing. Though it would make it possible that laws could be passed banning it.

"EVERY Judge uses his/her own beliefs in how they formulate their opinion. Fortunately, if a "wrong" Judge is appointed, he/she does not have absolute control. Unfortunately, if a "wrong" President is elected (see Hoover, Johnson, Nixon, Bush Jr.) he does have absolute control. Johnson, Clinton, Bush Jr. were responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, I don't know of anyone Judge with that sort of power."
I disagree the judges in Roe Vs Wade had complete control over wether abortion should be legal. You say Presidents have complete control. I ask you what they have complete control of? If you think they control declaring war check United States, Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution that job is Congress's. Please tell me how Bush Jr, Clinton, or Johnson and them alone are responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths. Did they some how do this completely by themselves?
You may want to take a political science class or two. The founders of our nation put in many checks and balances in our government to protect our rights. To appoint and encourage judges to legislate from the bench circumvents those checks. The President himself can not declare law. Though why not let him if we are going to embrace a President who plans to appoint Judges who will.

Posted by: ruchristian | October 16, 2008 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Ayer, Acorn, and Attacking makes McCain look childish and desperate--the question we want to know is 'what plans do you have to strengthen the middle class and stabilize our economy?'. McCain's answer: help small businesses. Guys like...(drumroll)...'Joe the Plumber'.

'Joe the Plumber' is not a typical voter. Most voters do not own small businesses nor do we work for one. We covet employer based health care, are scared of loosing our 401ks and are constantly dealing with an education system in need.

Obama's plan is the answer we want! In a time of economic crisis, the last thing we want to need is more market based 'cures' such as privatizing social security and education. The privatization of Medicare should be a case study in how these plans fail.

Sadly, McCain's 'Raging Right' are small towners who would benefit more from Obama's plan than McCain's. Most are working class who hate to be called that and have poor health care coverage. How would they fair under a market based HC system? Take a guess.

Posted by: huckfin | October 16, 2008 5:21 PM | Report abuse

EVERY Judge uses his/her own beliefs in how they formulate their opinion. Fortunately, if a "wrong" Judge is appointed, he/she does not have absolute control. Unfortunately, if a "wrong" President is elected (see Hoover, Johnson, Nixon, Bush Jr.) he does have absolute control. Johnson, Clinton, Bush Jr. were responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, I don't know of anyone Judge with that sort of power.

So Palin/McCain would appoint Judges that would stop women’s right to have a legal abortion (including when young girls are raped by their fathers) and Obama/Biden would appoint Judges that support the current RIGHT to choose.

Posted by: zakimar | October 16, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

zakimar: So you do not like Bush or McCain that is fine that is your right. You are granted that right by our constitution.
Let me ask you a question... what is the point of our constitution and our laws? Is there any point to them if our judges are allowed to decide for themselves what is fair and what our right should be? After hearing Obama critisize a judge for up holding the law I am disgusted.
True there are many judges that are "activist" that is very scary we even have some of them on the supreme court.
After hearing Obama last night what kind of judge do you think he will appoint? The only thing scarier than that is the number of people in our country who think it is a non issue or just take it for granted that judges are activist.
How can freedom be a non issue? Do you really put so little value in your freedom? Are you willing sell out your freedom to a promise of hope, a promise of a better economy, a promise of health care for all?
Best case those promises are delivered, does that really matter if you nolonger have your freedom? Worst case we end up with no freedom and a bunch of broken promises.
Many think this could never happen. Keep in mind Roe vs. Wade. Where in our constitution are we guaranteed the right to kill a baby? Were in the Constitution are we guarateed the right to do whatever we want with our bodies even if that involves injuring or killing someone else? You may believe in abortion, I disagree and that is fine we both have that right. That should have been decided through legislation not the Supreme Courts belief that it was our right. It is funny that many believe the Constitution grants us the right to do what we want with our bodies. Those same people believe we should ban cigaretts, many drugs are banned etc. You may argue well those affect other lives, HELLO so does abortion to the point of completely eliminating that life. Sorry I digress.
The point is Obama has shown us that he believes a judge should ignore laws and rule based on his own beliefs. There is a definit possibility that he will appoint a judge to the Supreme Court. Do you really want to give an appointed judge the power to redifine our laws based on that judges own beliefs? Do you really think our freedom should rest in the power of a few judges that the people did not elect?

Posted by: ruchristian | October 16, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

ALL judges are "activists" whether they are left, right or centrist. It's better to have an "activist" Judge than a delusional (Bush) or senile, warmonger (McCain) President.

Posted by: zakimar | October 16, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

AgnosticEngineer: You are missing the point. I did not say one currently could not pray in school, though there are many that believe this. For example UW Madison tried to ban a student from holding a christian bible study in her dorm room outside of school hours. My point is that if we have an activist judge and he is allowed to legislate from the bench this right could be taken away like UW Madison tried to. Obama stated last night that he believed judges should correct things that are not fair.
In order for our freedom to persist judges need to follow the constitution and laws our legislative system has set in place. If there is something that is unfair it is our elected officials who need to correct it. Judges are not to determine what is fair they are to determine if our rights are being up held as defined by our constitution and if laws are being followed.
Judges should not and must not be given the power to declare our constitution or laws, unless those laws are in conflict with our constitution, null and void because they think it is unfair.
Last night Obama referrenced a woman he felt was treated unfair by judge because a woman could not sue after the statute of limitation ran out. What was the judges option? Ignore the statute because he thought it was unfair? It was not the judges job to do that. It is our elected officials jobs to correct laws that are believed to be unfair. If Obama thought she was treated so unfairly what did he do to correct it? Has he proposed anything that 'make it fair'? Apparently he did not think it was unfair enough to do anything about it. Or is he waiting to become president to do something about it as he eluded to last night? It is not in a presidents job description to amend the constitution, laws, or introduce legislation. Though he could possibly appoint an activist judge to reinterpret the law... scary.
I know it is probably difficult for a judge to separate thier personal views when making a decision. However that is vital to our freedom and the upholding of our constitution. Obama apparently does not believe this and embraces judges willing to legislate from the bench.
You say quit trying to drown us in non-issues. You may see your freedom as a non issue, ironically the same freedom I join the military to help protect gives you the right to that opinion. I believe my freedom, and every Americans is a big issue worthy of standing up and fighting for.
Our nation was founded on the pricipals of freedom, was paid for through the blood of many of our ancestors, it can not be handed over to activist judges.

Posted by: ruchristian | October 16, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

"Never mind our constitution gauranties us both freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Yes that is freedom OF religion not freedom from religion. If my child would like to bless his food at lunch NO ONE has the right to stop him. True he can not force others to pray with him and the school (its a public school) can not force him to but he has the right granted by our constitution to do so. Just because some athiest activist judge does not believe so should not take that right away."


You people are insane. The only issues that have been raised about prayer in school are relating to the SCHOOL leading a prayer. That reflects a preference for a particular religion. How would you like it if the schools had sanctioned Muslim prayers every day. You wouldn't.

No one is going to stop or punish your child for saying "grace" at lunch. This is more deflection from the real issues facing our country. Quit trying to drown us in non-issues...

Posted by: AgnosticEngineer | October 16, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Wow, anyone else scared by the debate last night? Obama justified raising the tax on small businesses making over $250,000 profit because the majority make less than that. Ask yourself why would the majority of small businesses be making less than 250,000? Because if they keep growing thier business and hiring more they become a large business. I guess that we will not need to worry about our taxes increasing because of the tax credit for creating new jobs. That successful small business will be paying additional taxes rather than hiring more. Great plan to spark the economy Obama take money from a growing company and give it to someone who does not want to work, that will help us all!?
Then there is his view that if a judge sees something unfair they should correct it. Translation... he feels it is the judges job to determine what is fair and issue judgements based on thier own belief of what is fair. On the surface this may sound great. That is not a judges job though. A judge is supposed to apply the rules (laws) and make judgements based on the laws. What is fair and just is supposed to be determined by we the people and our elected officials. If there is something 'unfair' it is our elected officials to correct it. If Obama does not feel the law was fair in his example what did he do to correct it as an elected officail? He did nothing he just blasted the judge for ruling within the law. Obama wanted the judge to rewrite the law, excuse me Obama that is your job as an elected official to try and change the law. There are judges out there that think it is fair for a city to take your house away, level it and give the land to a developer to put up a super walmart. So do you think it would be good for a judge to rule that way? Never mind that the constitution gaurantees us the right to property. Many judges believe that one should only be allowed to pray in thier own house or church, we have seen example of judges ruling this way. Never mind our constitution gauranties us both freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Yes that is freedom OF religion not freedom from religion. If my child would like to bless his food at lunch NO ONE has the right to stop him. True he can not force others to pray with him and the school (its a public school) can not force him to but he has the right granted by our constitution to do so. Just because some athiest activist judge does not believe so should not take that right away.

Posted by: ruchristian | October 16, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

"Darn facts always ruining a good lie.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=37519"

I agree. Maybe you should go to the Tax Policy Center and look for yourself. I can't find these wonderful facts that are quoted by the conservative news site you have linked.

What I did find was that McCain's plan will increase our deficit much more than Obama's. So if increasing our deficit increases our taxes, McCain's plan is still worse for the average American BY FAR...

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411749_updated_candidates.pdf

Posted by: AgnosticEngineer | October 16, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Who do you think is paying for all those troops? I don't think Americans feel having troops in Korea and Germany is more important than healthcare for their children and homes to live in, if they do, they'll vote Palin/McCain.

Posted by: zakimar | October 16, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Guess what my friend, we still have troops in Germany, Japan and South Korea. Just to mention a few.

Posted by: 2kewl4rulz | October 16, 2008 7:01 AM | Report abuse

No one has to raise taxes, they can just borrow another trillion dollars from China, Japan and Saudi Arabia to fight a third war with Iran, and stay in Iraq for another 95 years as well. That other Republican, Bush promised not to raise taxes on us either, he just raised them on our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren...

Posted by: zakimar | October 16, 2008 2:08 AM | Report abuse

It's really ashame to see the voters of this country drinking the Obama kool-aid. He is very well spoken. I guess trashing this already broken economy by raising taxes feels better when the guy that did is well spoken!

Posted by: 2kewl4rulz | October 16, 2008 1:24 AM | Report abuse

Sen. McCain is a racist. In the first debate he couldn't bring himself to look at Sen. Obama; in the second debate he couldn't bring himself to address Sen. Obama politely and refused to shake his hand at the end; and finally, his comment that Sen. Obama is "not an Arab, he's a decent, family man" without any correction in the third debate proves that he is content with his racism.

Posted by: zakimar | October 16, 2008 12:48 AM | Report abuse

The fact that Palin/McCain use hate speech says more than the actual words they utter. America needs unity, not four more years of fear, hatred and partisanship.

Posted by: zakimar | October 16, 2008 12:42 AM | Report abuse

Suppose that instead of a Kenyan who happened to be born in Hawaii, like Barack Hussein Obama, the liberal media had anointed some Chinaman born in Hawaii, like Ching Mao Dong. I doubt it would have gotten any traction. So I wonder why it should be expected to work with an African American but not with an Asian American.

There are actually two things the media has manufactured: the candidate, and the perception that his victory is inevitable. The American people have a big slap down in store for these elites who think they have the power to manipulate a Presidential election. They will elect by an overwhelming landslide a real American hero and a real American woman, and send two slick talking politicians into a well deserved political oblivion.

Posted by: RichardBrodie | October 15, 2008 11:02 PM | Report abuse

McCain's been taking winkin lessons from Palin. What a creep. He brings out the same old disproved fllacies regarding Obama and then circumvents answering questions. He goes on a bend with nuclear power which he knows nothing about and says something ridiculous like building 40 nuclear reactors across the US. fat chance. Obviously he's never been to Washington State or he'd know that nuclear power is not clean or cheap and it takes years to build a reactor, a couple to go into default and decades to pay off the debts and then malingering years of clean up. He lost. He reminds me of Elmer Fudd, bumbling and winking his way through one stammering sentence after another while Obama gets the gem role of being Bugs Bunny. really, Obama is very adriot speaker who can think on his feet. he doesn't need a notepad or staged text, he has coolth to manage any potentially explosive situation, but Elmer Fudd is really a dud.

Posted by: ardeladimwit | October 15, 2008 10:56 PM | Report abuse

OK...Thought I logged out...We got the orchestrated, cut and paste GOP/KOOK stooopid spin effort going on here...I'm out. God Bless.

Posted by: JustinMcC | October 15, 2008 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Re: Manolete's "Women of America Unite" post

No sane woman, including yours truly, would vote for a woman like Sarah Palin to be the first woman in the White House.

I voted for Clinton. She deserved to be the first woman. I believe she still will be. But Sarah Palin isn't even worthy to stand in Clinton's shaddow.

I can only assume that "Manolete" is not really a woman.

Posted by: vmfn | October 15, 2008 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Obama is infinitely more dangerous than William Ayers. This is not because Ayers is a terrorist. It's because Obama is NOT a terrorist. The two are ideological soulmates who share the same agendas to destroy Yankee America. But a President like Obama would be able to inflict infinitely more damage on this country than any terrorist possibly could.

Posted by: RichardBrodie | October 15, 2008 10:34 PM | Report abuse

It's over folks...Don't even bother to spin...It's Courtesy to the KOOKS night....

Posted by: JustinMcC | October 15, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse

You "Got it", McCain...But NOBODY else does...

Posted by: JustinMcC | October 15, 2008 10:27 PM | Report abuse

The McCain contrived drama is TAXING...

Posted by: JustinMcC | October 15, 2008 10:25 PM | Report abuse

"Why does McCain keep giving a shout out to "Joe" one of Richard Nixon's political plumbers?"


....Because INTELLECTUALLY he knows he has to reach the blue collar white guy...He knows he has to talk to "Joe", but he's TELLING, not SHOWING... He's just out of touch.

Posted by: JustinMcC | October 15, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

OK...By McCain entertaining the abortion issue to such an extent I think this is an admittance of total defeat at this debate and he is just trying to shore up and maintain his base...Live to fight another day...Thoughts?

Posted by: JustinMcC | October 15, 2008 10:17 PM | Report abuse

Ya...You KOOKS are cutting your own throats...Ha! Too bad that you don't have Rove's help this year...That's the only reason why this cr*p was successful before...That and the color coded FEAR manipulations...

Posted by: JustinMcC | October 15, 2008 10:14 PM | Report abuse

Ya know... McCain is SOOO much better when he actually talks about the issues (even though I often disagree). He should IMMEDIATELY stop listening to the right wing extremists on his campaign that tell him to attack, attack all the time if he wants to have ANY chance of winning this. He seems IRRATIONAL if he follows extremist advice period.

Posted by: JustinMcC | October 15, 2008 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Check my blog to see pic and video of the T-shirts that Obama supporters are wearing at Obama rallies: Sarah Palin is a c#nt!

http://mccain08-hillary2012.blogspot.com/2008/10/obama-supporters-calling-sarah-palin.html

Posted by: dcpsychic | October 15, 2008 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Why does McCain keep giving a shout out to "Joe" one of Richard Nixon's political plumbers?

Why does McCain want to tie himself to Nixon's legacy in addition to Bush?

Posted by: JPRS | October 15, 2008 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Hmm!
Guilt by Association.
William Timmons is the leader of McCain's Transition Team. In the past he was a lobbyist for Saddham Hussein. Yes, a lobbyist for Saddham Hussein.
Maybe, McCain is the real terrorist.
Of course that's idiotic. Just as it is to equate Obama's association with AYERS. Obama was EIGHT YEARS OLD..EIGHT..when Ayers tried to bomb federal facilities to protest the Vietnam War. Do you hear that McCain or are you Deaf??? Obama was 8.
10 years ago Obama served on a educational board with Ayers with several affluent republicans.
McCain's association with Timmons is actual and real. Obama's association is a past functional relationship.
VOTE OBAMA!

Posted by: jcinsanmig2008 | October 15, 2008 10:01 PM | Report abuse

WOMEN OF AMERICA UNITE!
UNITE AGAINST THE SEXIST MEDIA AND BARACK HUSSEIN’S MUGGING OF VICE PRESIDENT, SARAH PALIN!

Women must unite against the liberal media vicious, sexist, cruel, demeaning, contemptuous UN-AMERICAN, unfair, unprofessional, unrelenting and blatantly biased treatment against Vice President Sarah Palin and acting blatantly in favor of Barack Hussein Obama during this unprecedented historic quest for the presidency!

Barack Hussein Obama claims a mightier throne, one forged in liberal ideals of justice and equality and hope, BUT he has benefited mightily from sexism in this campaign, and has remained silent. Obama supporters seem very happy with the sexist way pundits and some news organizations treat any action or statement by Sarah Palin, and many believe that most of the "venom" in the campaign is coming from supporters of Obama.

WOMEN OF AMERICA UNITE IN THIS DEFINING MOMENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY. To ensure we can grow up from the male dominated government that has caused many of the problems our country is facing; to a country where men and women are equal partners in governance.

WOMEN OF AMERICA UNITE!
UNITE AGAINST THE SEXIST MEDIA AND BARACK HUSSEIN’S MUGGING OF VICE PRESIDENT, SARAH PALIN!
VOTE FOR MCCAIN/PALIN

Posted by: Manolete | October 15, 2008 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Obama just wants to talk about the ISSUES...not the political nonsense...I know, I know McCain has to attack, Grumpy Grandpa McLame in the slippers... But C'mon, He's SUCH a politician....It's REFRESHING to see Obama. Now McCain's talking about issues..Look KOOKIE McCain supporters, Obama is a DECENT man who wants to help YOU and this country... C'mon, you gotta admit that McCain is a MESS. Please, we're all Americans here!

Posted by: JustinMcC | October 15, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

I can't watch another minute of this awful, disgusting "debate." McCain proves himself to be a desperate man without character, limits, or integrity. It is unbelievable to me that this man can sit there and decry Obama's negative campaigning, when all media sources report that it is his campaign that is almost entirely negative. Then he goes on to act like a hurt dog...feigning hurt feelings and then, after all of this, has the temerity to attack Obama to his face with two ridiculous, unsustantiated and blantantly false accusations. This man is insane, a racist, and perhaps the most disgusting and deplorable person I have ever witnessed (next to the current president). It is time to vote...

Posted by: nsingelis | October 15, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

OK...McCain is the ultimate CRACKER...I say that as a multi post grad degreed white guy from a blue collar family....

Posted by: JustinMcC | October 15, 2008 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Boo Hoo Johnnie Walnuts... whiner

Posted by: jolu32339 | October 15, 2008 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Live blog/chat of final debate here:
http://www.leehernly.com/blog/?p=327

Posted by: leeh11281 | October 15, 2008 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Huckabee while weak is ten times the veep Palin is. Hir religious righrt social views are tempered with a hand of acceptance and possible cooperation with the other side. Palin is an albatross around McCain's neck. Obama while inexperienced has shown a grasp of what is needed to become president. He learns incredibly fast as the missing ground game and complacency in NH lost it for him. He did not make that mistake again. Nor will he ever criticize a commander like he did Petraeus. Obama, the Joint Chiefs and former centcom commander Fallon were against the surge and for building up the Afghan theater. When you don't listen to our commanders, you suffer the consequences is lost ground in Afghanistan. 100,000 troops in Afghanistan would have the Afghan/Pakistan pipeline being built and reserves larger the Saudi's coming to market. WMD and a madman that will use them against someone that can squash him like a bug when he is a bully (They never fight people that will beat them). This after Cheney's secret energy board meeting.

Posted by: jameschirico | October 15, 2008 8:38 PM | Report abuse

When McCain attacks with you wanted to cut an run in defeat in Iraq, Obama can counter with McCain's 1993 Somalian mission funding amendment. "The longer we stay the more difficult it will be to leave," Mr. McCain said. "The loss of American lives is not only tragic, it is needless." The amendment resolution was requiring a "prompt and orderly" withdrawal from Somalia. The senator with the record that wants to cut and run against Islamic extremists is John McCain. We finally sent after Blackhawk Down the armored element the General had requested with the bill. McCain voted against.

Posted by: jameschirico | October 15, 2008 8:28 PM | Report abuse

What was the under-card in Rocky I?

Neither of these guys is a truly great debater.

Obama has done a pretty good job of doing a rope-a-dope -- he plays good defense, dodges the cheap shots, and gets some shots in when there are openings -- for the most part he's been winning on points and doesn't get caught in tactical spats. He has a strategy going into the debates and does a good job of keeping his focus. McCain has done a good job of moderating his image in the debates -- no major slip-ups yet.

Neither has the command of the camera ala Clinton or Reagan.

They're both pros, and could likely avoid walking into punches from a more spirited debater, but I think it's safe to say that neither has gotten where they are solely on the strength of debating skills.

This isn't a U.K. House of Commons debate.

Posted by: JPRS | October 15, 2008 7:40 PM | Report abuse

My Friends......

Conservative commentators such as Frum and Brooks have pointed out Republican weakness among the highest income and highest educated areas in the USA. This is why Palin has proven to be a disaster, she scares a lot of people. Republicans need Eggheads. America desperately needs a Republican Party that does not pander to the Social Conservatives and terminally angry white males and we desperately need a Democratic Party that doesn't write them off.

Posted by: beawr | October 15, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse

dastubbs, you may very well be right. It's hard to figure how a Palin gambit could win any but the hardest core Repub votes, for instance.

My mind tonight is pre-set in "let us not underestimate McCain" mode - and also "let us get out the vote" mode.

Posted by: officermancuso | October 15, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

...In the first Rocky, both men were feeling each other out and neither could really claim victory at the end. The second Rocky was a disappointment. But, the third delivered huge thrills thanks to the brawl between Rocky and Clubber Lang...


Are you freakin' kidding? Seriously? The "grudge match" between Clubba beats the epic with Apollo?

God, I just thought your politics were moronic Chris...

Posted by: DonRitchie | October 15, 2008 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Reading the comments about this article from Palin/McCain supporters has switched on that proverbial light above the head. What’s going on here, folks, is members-in-good-standing of the new, improved Republican Party have been sucked into a black hole and then spit out into an alternate universe where up is down, right is left, black is white, and where truth is fiction.
No way else to explain it . . .
I'm wondering how these modern-day victims of faulty astronavigation spend their time doing the usual, everyday things . . . Before they go to bed at night, do they eat a candy bar after brushing their teeth? When they make a sandwich, do they put the meat and mustard on top of two pieces of bread? When they go out in the yard to play ball with their children, do they throw the toy AWAY from them? When they apply for a job, do they insult the interviewer? When they go into the voting booth, do they mark an X on the blank part of the form? If their honesty is tested on a lie-detector, does the needle go haywire when they tell the truth?
Which leads me to ask: Isn’t it about time that Republicans who gravitate toward either Palin or McCain (forget about the hardened base—they’ll never come back down to earth) at least try treading back up that black hole vortex—back toward the world most of us recognize as real?

Posted by: hyjanks | October 15, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

officermancuso, I believe you may have misinterpreted my post.

The points you cite are excellent reasons to vote for or against a candidate.

My point, however, is that because of McCain's decisions, choices and tactics -- regardless of the confluence of events -- he could NEVER have won the election.

Posted by: dastubbs | October 15, 2008 7:20 PM | Report abuse

dbeno1 wrote, "My feeling is that after watching the Republicans lose essentially every single House and Senate seat from middle Pennsylvania through Maine -- one of their former strongholds -- and watching the landslide that is coming, some very smart, fiscally conservative, government-out-of-my-life FORMER Republicans are going to get together and make a concerted effort to either come up with a viable 3d party or to high-jack the Libertarian Party."

That's an interesting prediction. Were it to come true, there'd be another new party spring from the ashes of the Republican party - you might call it the "Huckabee party", using shorthand. Socially conservative, and potentially otherwise liberal.

Against a united Democratic party, your business libertarians and my Huckabee "Christian democrats" would split the old Republican vote, it would be a regular Alice's Restaurant Bar and Massacree.

Whether or not Republicans are smart enough to understand that remains to be seen.

Posted by: officermancuso | October 15, 2008 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Nice post DASTUBBS. Excellent points all.

Posted by: dbeno1 | October 15, 2008 7:09 PM | Report abuse

dastubbs, that's leaving out these things which influenced the vote:

Unpopular war in Iraq.

Financial panic.

Rarely does the same party hold the White House for 3 terms.

President can barely speak English and things are falling apart, makes you wonder about the party that loves him.

USA torturing prisoners of war.

USA spying on its own citizens.

So I disagree with your general argument, which seems to be that this election was McCain's for the taking, had he not blown it.

I'd also caution my fellow Obama partisans to be sure to vote in the one poll that matters, because the fat lady doesn't even walk onstage till the polls close on November 4'th, and overconfidence has cost many a candidate many a vote.

Posted by: officermancuso | October 15, 2008 7:05 PM | Report abuse

rmattocks wrote ( with a little added help ): . . Please John, for the life of you, not the POW speech again tonight [ We’ve heard it all before, and it doesn’t make you Presidential timber. ]. . . . . We beg of you, not the “I Know How To Win Wars” stump speech. We all know, “apron-strings”, you don't know anything about winning wars or strategizing wars [ You did not win the Viet Nam War. ].

No more of your, “I routinely reach across the aisles,” because we all know you do that only . . . [ when it serves your own interest ].

No more of that, “I have a record you can look at it” – because your record, especially on Veterans issues, is as deplorable as they come. Any veteran should be ashamed to vote for you.

At least tonight, you are sitting down so we don't have to see you laboring about . . . [ We all sympathize for what you’ve been through, but it makes us even more fearful of Sarah Palin. ].

And please no more "Maverick" talk. You are not a Maverick and never have been one. [ You’re a TENDERFOOT, always shooting from the hip. Just look at your selection of Sarah Palin. ]. You've sold your soul to the Republican Empire for a mess of potage, which is a Presidency without honor or decency.

Posted by: coldcomfort | October 15, 2008 7:05 PM | Report abuse

When the postmortems are written (look for those by Joshua Green at The Atlantic Monthly and John Ibbitson of the Toronto Globe and Mail), the top reason given for the McCain Campaign's failure will undoubtedly be his nomination of Sara Palin. She proved to be a liablity at attracting independent voters. Uneducated, unskilled and untrustworthy, she became a national joke. McCain's choice of Palin was not only cynical, it was dangerous to our national security.

Which leads directly to the second major flaw of the campaign: the erratic decision-making skills of the senator himself. Whether attributable to his age, health or some other factor(s), there isn't a single observer who can say (with a straight face) that McCain waged a coherent campaign. Seemingly like a drunk driver forced to walk the line, the candidate and his campaign careened from strategy to strategy (or were they tactics?) in hopes of finding some issue that resonated with independent voters. For instance, even though the senator's remarks about his own lack of understanding of economic policy are well known, he seemed totally incapable of following his campaign's talking points from one day to the next. (The campaign's day-after "interpretations" of McCain's speeches also became a national joke.)

Finally, McCain seemed unable to select one manager with overall authority to run the campaign and be the sole filter to the candidate. Rick Davis was appointed as Campaign Manager and Steve Schmidt as Head of Day to Day Operations. Republicans both, but from opposing schools of political management. Each consulting with the candidate and each offering different tactics (strategies?). McCain could not seem to make the definitive choice from either.

So by those three criteria of determining presidential leadership skills -- selecting your vice president, making sound decisions and building an effective cabinet -- McCain proved woefully inept. And a bad choice to be the "leader of the free world."

With the current "crises" the nation faces, McCain simply doesn't have the skills nor the time to turn the campaign to his favor. The 2008 McCain Campaign will be studied for years as a disastrous "How Not To Run A Presidential Campaign."

Posted by: dastubbs | October 15, 2008 6:58 PM | Report abuse

BTW since you are so impish and ignorant here are some presidents that have fewer vetoes than bush:
Washington 2
Adams 0
Jefferson 0
Madison 5
Monroe 1
adams 0
Jackson 5
van buren 0

I could go on but it is clear you are a pinhead.


Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 6:41 PM | Report abuse

---------------------
NOTIVE ANYTHING about these Presidents you listed?
They all occured over two hundred years ago and BEFORE there was such a thing as our current political partys.

John Adams (1797-1801)
Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
James Monroe (1817-1825)
John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
William Henry Harrison (1841)
Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
Millard Fillmore (1850-53)
James Garfield (1881)

I hardly think the WHIG party counts
Nor do i discount the IMPRTANT fact that the number of bills submitted to the president during these fledgling years of our country resulted in a mere handful per term.
MEANING
Millard Filmore only recieved 8 bills during his entire time as President. Your efforts to use this as comparative scale is like using a gorilla at NASSA.

ONCE AGAIN
Your posts are filled with blatant innacuracies. I also love that you use MY OWN source in your arguments. Glad i could provide that to you. It helped clear up you were wrong the first time.

Posted by: feastorafamine | October 15, 2008 6:55 PM | Report abuse

The anger and hate that is being spewed by the right-wing nutjobs sounds like the GOP death rattle. I believe they are finished as a viable party after this election.

Posted by: Godhimself1 | October 15, 2008 1:13 PM
_________________

This is the topic that I find really interesting -- has the Republican Party been dealt such a blow that it cannot recover as a brand? My feeling is that after watching the Republicans lose essentially every single House and Senate seat from middle Pennsylvania through Maine -- one of their former strongholds -- and watching the landslide that is coming, some very smart, fiscally conservative, government-out-of-my-life FORMER Republicans are going to get together and make a concerted effort to either come up with a viable 3d party or to high-jack the Libertarian Party. There is a lot of dissatisfaction in the country right now with both parties, and the time is certainly right for a 3d party. If the likes of Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich ditch the Bible-thumpers and social conservatives, and get back to their roots of (1) fiscal conservativism (meaning balance the budget); (2) less governmental intrusion in your life; and (3) decreased international role for the United States military (i.e., we are not the world's policemen), they would find a lot of traction.

As it is, the Republican moniker is now toxic.

Posted by: dbeno1 | October 15, 2008 6:48 PM | Report abuse

ruchristian, my point is that Rev Wright's larger worldview as evidenced by his 3 decades of work is something far more positive than the snippets of it that have been portrayed in the media. Obama did not anticipate the attack and lost that particular publicity battle. I am not pleased that he chose do disavow his church or duck and cover on the issue; I harbor no delusions that Obama is perfect, but it was tactically smart to avoid getting bogged down in this nonissue rather than risk losing the election and seeing real issues go unresolved or worsen in a McCain administration.

As to the republican-funded and backed Annenberg Challenge--look into it--not the spin around it but the actual history of the project; I respect that you may disagree with its goals and methods but suggesting that it was a Communist initiative is just a cop-out out flatly untrue--and might shock the McCain-supporting Annenberg family. Although Ayers was influential in securing the grant for the project, you know as well as I do that he had no part in selecting Obama as the chairman, really it is well-documented. Check out factcheck.org sometime.

Posted by: jasinderbrand | October 15, 2008 6:42 PM | Report abuse

"Least number of vetoes in US History (Second only to POLK with pocket vetoes)"

you are truly a loon.

I guess 11 in 4 years is technically less than 13 in 8 years but you have to be a Krugmann lib to calculate this way.

So which is good less vetoes or more vetoes. you can't seem to figure it out.

BTW since you are so impish and ignorant here are some presidents that have fewer vetoes than bush:
Washington 2
Adams 0
Jefferson 0
Madison 5
Monroe 1
adams 0
Jackson 5
van buren 0

I could go on but it is clear you are a pinhead.


Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 6:41 PM | Report abuse

McCain supporters here win my award for egregious misuse of numbers. Whether they're talking about Bush vetoes or Obama taxes, they twist facts to fit a narrative they decided upon before the Democratic party even selected a nominee.

I've never seen such a "know-nothing" campaign in my life, though I did study one in U.S. history class.

Posted by: officermancuso | October 15, 2008 6:40 PM | Report abuse

"At this point, McCain seems like a cross between Bush II and Nixon."

***

Agreed, though he lacks the intellect of Bush II, as well as Nixon's charm and grace.

Posted by: castanea | October 15, 2008 6:37 PM | Report abuse

MOST VETOES IN US HOSTORY IN THE SHORTEST TIME EVER.

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/2007/05/bush-vetoes-less-than-most-presidents.html


can you even read? examine those two sentences and tell me what you find?

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 6:23 PM | Report abuse

-------------------------
Apparently YOU cant read...and thanks for giving me MY source in your response. As far as i can tell its the only time you have sourced anything on these boards..glad i could help in that regard

I am going to go really really slow for you now so pay attention and see if you can comprehend

Up to July of 2006 Bush vetoed only ONE SINGLE BILL (Least ever if pocket vetoe is included and the fewset only behind Polk if pocket vetoes are not included)

AFTER 2006 ELECTION
MOST VETOES IN HISTORY IN THE SHORTEST SPAN PER SUBMITTAL. MEANING HE HAS VETOED EVERY BILL SINCE.

Get it?
These two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

Posted by: feastorafamine | October 15, 2008 6:35 PM | Report abuse

At this point, McCain seems like a criss between Bush II and Nixon. His voting record largely resembles that of Bush and like Nixon, he keeps changing his persona and can't always remember which McCain he is. Like Nixon 1.0 (the pre-Checkers Nixon) and like Bush (c 2000-2007), he's a media darling, although some of his fans have faded away (like Joe Klein). Like Bush & Nixon, he's surrounded himself with a cast of loathsome characters and he seems more compromised than either--Nixon had gravitas and political capital despite his loss to pat Brown, Bush had family money and influential minders. Ultimately, McCain's life is much like Bush's--influential family members bailed him out and put him into elite institutions, and money acted as a substitute for experience. Nixon self-dtructed over watergate. Bush has simply self-destructed over everything.

McCain "wins" by overcoming feebly low expectations (like Bush in '00), but at this point the bar is so low, he's probably finished.

Posted by: thebuckguy | October 15, 2008 6:34 PM | Report abuse

don;t beleive me, try this:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama’s plan to cut taxes on 95 percent of taxpayers would effectively increase government spending by an average of $64.8 billion a year and effectively raise income tax rates for many Americans, even on some earning $20-$50,000 per year, according to the non-partisan Tax Policy Center.

When compared with current law, people earning $20,000-$50,000 a year will see their effective tax rates -- the amount of money the taxpayer actually ends up paying the government -- increase on average under Obama’s plan, according to Tax Policy Center figures.

Most households making $30,000-$75,000 will not see a reduction in their taxes under Obama’s plan relative to current law, according to the Center. In fact, the only strata that will see a majority of its effective tax burden reduced under Obama are those making less than $30,000 per year and those making $75,000-$200,000 per year.

Darn facts always ruining a good lie.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=37519


Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Gee Zouk, 9 vetoes in two years (4.5/year) sounds pretty similar to 36 and 39 in 8 years and quite a bit more on average than 13 in four years. Maybe not the highest ever, but nothing to brag about for a Pres with an opposition congress. Thank God for W, i guess, or we might be helping sick children, curing diseases, and bringing our troops home safely. Crisis averted!

Posted by: jasinderbrand | October 15, 2008 6:31 PM | Report abuse

watch final debate online you can here: http://digbig.com/4xrmm
enjoy!

Posted by: varniklili | October 15, 2008 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Dubya almost never vetoed congress when his own party controlled it (that would be the first 6 years of his imperium).

During that period his party did not earn a reputation as budget-balancers. They proved that Republicans can waste your tax dollars at least as well as Democrats, and Dubya seemed content with that.

Now we have come to a great financial reckoning. In a democracy, someone must answer for what the Republican party has done to our economy. It looks as though John McCain is going to pay the price.

George W. Bush has been very good at timing. His Iraq mess will soon become someone else's problem. His timing on the "day of reckoning" for his reckless financial policies, though, seems to have been a little bit off - at least, it was "off" if he hoped to give way to a Republican successor.

Posted by: officermancuso | October 15, 2008 6:29 PM | Report abuse

jasinderbrand; When one goes out to find a church to join and interviews the reverend and leaders of a church what is the point? I have gone through that process myself in the past. I do not understand why Obama would do that if he was not trying to find out the Reverend views. I have been to churchs and left because the views of the church did not align with my views, both politically and spiritially.
I do not understand why a person would belong to a church for 20 years in which they do not believe in. What is the point of that? To not know about the Reverend's views either he was going to church for twenty years without listening or he did not attend and was a member because he thought it would look good. I find it hard to believe a politian could go to church and ignore the political views. The average person may overlook some political views and try to focus only on the spiritual but doubt a polititian would.
As for the guilt by association with the guy he had a business relationship with, are you really that niave to see it as a mere business relationship? Obama was the chairman of the board for a foundation that Bill Ayers founded. That foundation funded Bill Ayers research into and teaching of communism. If we are to believe that Obama does not share Bill Ayers views then we would have to believe that board selection was innept and Obama had no idea what the Foundation's money was being spent on.
I am having a real tough time figuring out which is worse authorizing money to be spent without having a clue what it is being used for or supporting communist education.

Posted by: ruchristian | October 15, 2008 6:29 PM | Report abuse

he vetoed stem cell a couple times, chips a couple times, defense surrender a couple times. in other woirds only the most egregious lib spending.

Carter (one term)13
Reagan 39
Bush1 29
clinton 36
bush 11

the liberal point is confused and misguided - aka - standard liberal thinking.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

------------------------
OOPS!
So you WERE WRONG
OOPS! See what happens when somebody actually points out the FACTS??

Least number of vetoes in US History (Second only to POLK with pocket vetoes)

Largest number of vetoes in history in the shortest span since 2006.

FACTS.

Sorry buddy but making stuff up here on the boards isnt going to fly. SOURCE ANYTHING. Untill then its merely your opinion, which at this point is severely tarnished by the amount of times you have been consistantly wrong.

Posted by: feastorafamine | October 15, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

"the President has two jobs - command the military and sign bills from congress (or veto)"

Funny, you seam to have left out the part about running the executive branch of the government. Or did Bush consolidate the Departments of State, Treasury, Justice, Interior, Agriculture, Homeland Security, Interior, Labor, Commerce, Housing & Urban Development, Health & Human Services, Transpiration, Energy, Education and Veterans Affairs with the Marine Corps?

Not to mention the other federal agencies or that "Diplomacy" thing.

Posted by: mikeswagger | October 15, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

King of Zouk, grand sovereign of logical fallacies.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, my friend. The market did not crash in response to Obama's gains in the polls--remember his big leap came the day afterward, some might even suggest that people gravitated toward Obama because the market collapsed, although I won't engage in that fallacy myself.

Your criticism of your imagined rendition of Obama's tax plan defies logic even further. I can't criticize the plan that he wants to implement, therefore he is just using it to cover for a different plan that I can criticize. I'm not sure there's even a Latin term in existence for that one.

Posted by: jasinderbrand | October 15, 2008 6:26 PM | Report abuse

MOST VETOES IN US HOSTORY IN THE SHORTEST TIME EVER.

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/2007/05/bush-vetoes-less-than-most-presidents.html


can you even read? examine those two sentences and tell me what you find?

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 6:23 PM | Report abuse

he vetoed stem cell a couple times, chips a couple times, defense surrender a couple times. in other woirds only the most egregious lib spending.

Carter (one term)13
Reagan 39
Bush1 29
clinton 36
bush 11

the liberal point is confused and misguided - aka - standard liberal thinking.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 6:17 PM | Report abuse

11 whole vetoes of which 4 were overridden. Yeah, that's what is causing all the anger at the congress.

you live a delusion. PoLousy wouldn't even pass an aprops budget. what a total loser. worst speaker in history. Reid is the most spineless critter that ever walked upright. "the war is lost", "we don't know what to do" etc.

you Libs are handing over your pocketbooks to these fools.

I am looking for a house in the Bahamas.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

----------------------------
AGAIN
NO FACTS ONLY LIES. Bush Vetoed TWO bills for nearly the ENTIRE time the GOP held a majority

Recent Presidents and their Vetoes


GW Bush: 2 Total (0 overridden as of May 1, 2007)Clinton: 37 Total (2 overrridden)GHW Bush: 44 Total (1 overridden)Reagan: 78 Total (9 overridden)Carter: 31 Total (2 overridden)Ford: 66 Total (12 overridden)Nixon: 43 Total (7 overridden)

As of May 2007 with a slight majority for Dems in the house and Senate.....

MOST VETOES IN US HOSTORY IN THE SHORTEST TIME EVER.

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/2007/05/bush-vetoes-less-than-most-presidents.html

AGAIN you LOVE to simply make stuff up. Please by all means SOURCE something source anything.

Perhaps you could find a source in the Bahamas. Better get going.....

Posted by: feastorafamine | October 15, 2008 6:10 PM | Report abuse

As for the abortion thing.

I am staunchly pro-life. (I'd prefer to leave my religion out of the discussion, as I don't see myself as worthy of carrying any religious banner).

I have been voting for every pro-life candidate for 24 years now, and do you know what it has gotten me?

It has gotten me supreme court justices who religiously defend the right of George W. Bush to abrogate the constitution, while supporting Roe v. Wade under the doctrine of stare decisis.

I have concluded that Republicans are very interested in my pro-life vote at election time and not terribly interested in it at other times. (Can you say "David Souter", or "Harriet Miers"?)

I have also given long and hard thought to the need to balance issues of war and peace, and health care, against the single issue of abortion.

If 2008 is not a time to deliver an emphatic spanking to the party of George W. Bush, I'm the Wizard of Oz.

Posted by: officermancuso | October 15, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse

I come back from vacation and find not much has changed except that the stock market has fallen some more. Since I don't see the next hard bottom until about 8000, and since a realistic bottom also exists at about 6000, it doesn't surprise me. Also, McCain's inability to turn around the collapse of his numbers against Obama by using attacks against Obama instead of running as a competent economic candidate, doesn't surprise me either.

Who would have though McCain was so without leadership ideas? Is it not clear to everyone that he needs to show economic strengths? I wrote a while back that it was too late for him to suddenly spring some lame Ayers attacks and expect anything from them. His campaign strategists seem to be dimly reasoned and slow to think things through.

Could McCain have done anything worse than how he has handled everything since the convention, from how Palin was mismanaged to his economic postures?

Because of all the stupidity, lack of preparation on economic issues and strategic blunders of the McCain camp since convention week, Obama is looking more and more like the better choice out of two unhappy choices left.

Posted by: AsperGirl | October 15, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

king_of_zouk wrote, "I am looking for a house in the Bahamas."

Bon voyage! I hope your neighbor turns out to be Alec Baldwin ;)

Posted by: officermancuso


I don't suppose that I will be the only "rich" person who will flee this upcoming repressive regime. why work when you can get a hand out from the messiah.

that 95% number is going to slip a long way down once reality sets in. It took bill clinton exactly one month to renege on his tax promises.

We intend to let go some of our staff right after the election. the Obama economics is going to eliminate jobs right away, it has already started, the day he pulled ahead in the polls is the day the market crashed.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

"I can't vote for you you're prolife." "I can't vote for you you're prochoice." Can we please for once in our lives focus on issues of substance? Or at least on issues within the realm of executive administration and legislative agenda? Wedge issue voters sicken me.

ruchristian--the President is the President of the United States of America, not the Christian Republic of Jesustan. It's a shame that Obama's faith is even an issue, but let's look at this Rev Wright thing for a minute. Have you ever considered that the snippets of a few highly publicized sermons on Faux News might not be representative of his 30 year career? That maybe the message of hope, overcoming adversity, and improving an imperfect world that he has preached his entire life might be more central to his faith than a badly decontextualized condemnation or a misattributed quote? If Obama is distancing himself from Wright for political convenience that is unfortunate, but politicians do that and measured against each other, McCain's flaws--both real and superficial--far outpace this sort of stunt. Really the Wright business says far worse about a society where we expect a flawless President than it says about Obama himself.

Posted by: jasinderbrand | October 15, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Let this post be the second-to-last thing you read today about the debates. The last thing you read about them ought to be Writing Frontier's . . .

http://writingfrontier.com/2008/10/04/thats-not-debatable/

Posted by: jheubusch | October 15, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

dribble takes the entire day to compose a two line insult, pretty much the same insult we have seen for months. that is the wit, creativity and originality of the angry left loons.

they say if 1000 monkeys type on a keyboard for 1 million years, they could reproduce shakepeare. I don't know about the bard, but one monkey typing all day produced a stale old two line insult. Maybe the foaming at the mouth has something to do with it.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

king_of_zouk wrote, "I am looking for a house in the Bahamas."

Bon voyage! I hope your neighbor turns out to be Alec Baldwin ;)

Posted by: officermancuso | October 15, 2008 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Republicans must be a weak-minded group if they are mentally affected by every person they have a business relationship with.

On the Democratic side, we are taught to hold onto your core values regardless of whom you are working with. Yes, at times in America, we will work with those whose core values are different than ours, but hey, this is America.

But Republicans .... oh boy. Have coffee with a guy and you absorb all his bad karma. Glad to be a Democrat supporting Obama on November 4th.

Posted by: haymarketbill | October 15, 2008 5:54 PM | Report abuse

11 whole vetoes of which 4 were overridden. Yeah, that's what is causing all the anger at the congress.

you live a delusion. PoLousy wouldn't even pass an aprops budget. what a total loser. worst speaker in history. Reid is the most spineless critter that ever walked upright. "the war is lost", "we don't know what to do" etc.

you Libs are handing over your pocketbooks to these fools.

I am looking for a house in the Bahamas.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

"On the legislative end, we can be sure he will continue with his past efforts, rubber stamping all the loony leftist and extreme spending proposals sent over by the Pelousy and reid congress -approval rating in the single digits."

The funny thing is that the low approval rating is a direct result of Bush vetoing everything that Congress passes. Congress will become immensely more popular simply by virtue of the fact that they will actually be accomplishing things.

Posted by: DDAWD | October 15, 2008 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Are you a Christian?
I have heard Obama adds over and over attacking McCain for being against abortion and Palin for apposing all abortions. If you are a Christian I do not understand how you could support Obama after hearing those adds.
Perhaps McCain and Palin listened to the word of God and thier religous leaders on this matter... Is that really a fault to attack them over?
On the other side you have a man who belonged to a church for many years, even interviewed the reverend prior to going and had no idea what he was saying on Sunday. He continued to be a member of that church until late summer when the public started to be made aware of Rev. Wrights views. Obama then claimed he did not know of these racist views. He made this claim despite having been advised not to allow the reverend to give a speach at his announing to run. Obama did not allow Wright to speak because his advisors said he was too contriversial. So even if he did not know of Wright's beliefs he knew of them then and continued to be a member of the church. So why would he continue being a member of a church he does not belive in? It appears that the real reason he left the church is because of political pressure. If a man will turn his back on his religeous beliefs for political gain what else will he turn his back on.
As a christian do you really want our country to be run by a man who supports abortion? Do you really want to have a leader that has turned his back to his own faith to get elected? If you are christian take a look at the bible there are all kind of examples of what happened to nations led by people who turned thier back to God.
I for one do not want to answer to God as to why I voted for a man who wants to ensure we all have the rite to kill a baby.
Life is to be embraced not discarded in a trash can.

Posted by: ruchristian | October 15, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Obama is desperatly memorizing right now to prepare for tonights debate. however, it should not be that hard, he only has to remember the one line:

"that's not the same guy I knew."

works every time and there are a lot.

truth quotient ----

roughly equal to the "I didn't have s&x with that monica lewinsky" claim.

Dems repeat the behavior and the voters, who are dem-witted to begin with, forget.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

What is really hilarious are the comments of the Rs on here. Really proves the thesis that they are primate precursors with very little in the way of a cerebrum. Lizard brains sums it up.

Posted by: drindl | October 15, 2008 5:31 PM | Report abuse

We'll certainly see McCain "swinging for the fences", to use a baseball analogy.

I suppose the conventional wisdom is that he's likely to come across as "too hot" for the medium of television, or even worse, to display his oft discussed but never seen in public (by me at least) temper.

I suspect he may come out with one of his patented gambits - something like, "Senator Obama, are you willing to join with me in refusing to run any negative ads..."

He's an intelligent man, unlike George W. Bush (though like Bush, he squandered his opportunity to take full advantage of excellent educational opportunities as a young man).

He's up against circumstances that would sink any GOP presidential nominee, I think.

I suspect right now that most people are underestimating him, attributing his poor showing in the polls entirely to the shortcomings of the man and his campaign, and not giving due credit to the circumstances which make his run for office such an uphill battle.

It will be a fascinating debate, and I predict that it will not be boring. McCain can't afford to be boring tonight.

Posted by: officermancuso | October 15, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Socialism Uber Alles!

Posted by: leapin | October 15, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

goddamn america

i sat in those pews for 20 years,
but no, I never really listened
to anything rev.wright said, I quess.

I will say anything to get your vote,
if you feel you need change in your
life, just relax, and vote for me,
it is as easy as that.

I love being a sheep,
I love obama obama obama
I can just let his will be done.

NOBAMA

Posted by: USA3

------------------------------------------

I still cannot fathom why you repubs think that people will care about this guilt by association bull****. His church had a literalist minister, a guy on a board with him had a radical past, he once knew a guy who knew a guy...

Look, none of us expect a presidential nominee to be perfect. Sure, there Obamatons out there who think that the good senator is without flaws just as there are McManiacs who still buy the "straight talk" schtick, but most of us just want the best of an imperfect field and we'll look to the guy making the most sensible proposals to restore our economy and the state of international diplomacy. The fact that the worst you can throw out about Obama are the political views of people he prayed with or the past behavior of people he worked with shows that we have a pretty damn great (though imperfect) nominee.

That being said, if you want to play the guilt by association game, John McCain's FATHER IN LAW and political patron--Jim Hensley--built his AZ liquor and gambling empire by building mob connections and evading inspections. He went to prison in the forties for flouting WWII rationing regulations designed to insure that we had the materials we needed to support our troops. Money from that empire paid for the house in AZs first CD that McCain used to establish residency for his first run for congress. How's that for putting 'Country First?'

I don't think that association should tarnish McCain in any way--Hensley cheated our country when McCain was 8 years old--but if you really want to get into an associations debate, I think we have a lot more ammo than you.

Posted by: jasinderbrand | October 15, 2008 5:27 PM | Report abuse

"For the cable-impaired, like me, the answer is PBS. No split screen, no graphs, "

I actually like the split screen. It's cool to watch the response of one candidate to the other's.

The best case is Biden's expressions when Palin was talking about the role of the VP. That was just priceless.

Posted by: DDAWD | October 15, 2008 5:21 PM | Report abuse

here is another example of liberal brainwashing that the socialists use besides hollywood movies. just read that the new game 'Burnout Paradise' flashes obama splashes while playing the game. another example of silicon valley liberals influencing young minds.
the answer: boycott!!

Posted by: thetruthsayer | October 15, 2008 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Best laugh so far:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MY fellow Republicans, we should abandon the party and start a new one; The Bull-Moose party - but I'm afraid I'd be hunted by a certain someone...


Posted by: utznpt October 15, 2008 1:30 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by: dastubbs | October 15, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I hope McCain spends all night talking about Ayers. It's time for the final nail in the coffin.

Posted by: freedom5 | October 15, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

actually Jason it is really very simple. the President has two jobs - command the military and sign bills from congress (or veto)

On these two counts we can be sure of Obama's efforts. He has no experience with the military except criticizing them for being killers and voting to force them to surrender.

On the legislative end, we can be sure he will continue with his past efforts, rubber stamping all the loony leftist and extreme spending proposals sent over by the Pelousy and reid congress -approval rating in the single digits.

all the rest is just talk, talk. at least on that metric your guy excels.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Here are some polls from this day in 2004, right before President Kerry was sworn in:

Below are some new national polls from Ohio University

Pollster Dates Kerry Bush
Ohio University Oct. 3-13 50 44
Ohio University Oct. 3-13 50 45


Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

--------------------------------
LOL thanks for the trip down memory lane....now back to reality.

Poll Date Sample Obama (D) McCain (R) Spread
RCP Average 10/08 - 10/14 -- 49.8 42.5 Obama +7.3
Rasmussen Tracking 10/12 - 10/14 3000 LV 50 45 Obama +5
Reuters/C-Span/Zogby Tracking 10/12 - 10/14 1210 LV 48 44 Obama +4
Hotline/FD Tracking 10/12 - 10/14 823 LV 49 41 Obama +8
Gallup Tracking (Traditional)* 10/12 - 10/14 2160 LV 49 46 Obama +3
Gallup Tracking (Expanded)* 10/12 - 10/14 2319 LV 52 44 Obama +8
IBD/TIPP Tracking 10/09 - 10/14 825 LV 45 42 Obama +3
GW/Battleground Tracking 10/08 - 10/14 800 LV 51 43 Obama +8
LA Times/Bloomberg 10/10 - 10/13 1030 LV 50 41 Obama +9
CBS News/NY Times 10/10 - 10/13 699 LV 53 39 Obama +14
Ipsos/McClatchy 10/09 - 10/13 1036 RV 48 39 Obama +9
Pew Research 10/09 - 10/12 1191 LV 49 42 Obama +7
USA Today/Gallup (Traditional)* 10/10 - 10/12 761 LV 50 46 Obama +4
USA Today/Gallup (Expanded)* 10/10 - 10/12 1030 LV 52 45 Obama +7
ABC News/Wash Post 10/08 - 10/11 766 LV 53 43 Obama +10

Electoral map:
Obama 286
McCain 158

Battleground states:
Ohio (20) 48.9 45.5 Obama +3.4
Nevada (5) 49.2 46.2 Obama +3.0
North Carolina (15) 47.9 46.7 Obama +1.2
Missouri (11) 48.8 47.0 Obama +1.8
Florida (27) 49.8 45.0 Obama +4.8
Colorado (9) 50.4 44.6 Obama +5.8
Virginia (13) 51.6 43.0 Obama +8.6
New Mexico (5) 49.8 42.8 Obama +7.0
Minnesota (10) 51.3 42.6 Obama +8.7
Wisconsin (10) 52.4 42.0 Obama +10.4
Michigan (17) 50.7 40.2 Obama +10.5
New Hampshire (4) 52.0 41.6 Obama +10.4
Pennsylvania (21) 53.4 40.0 Obama +13.4

McCain is fighting for his life in RED states. Not only does he need to sweep all the toss-ups states but he needs to pick off another 50 or so electoral votes from Obama. Good luck with that.I know i know you stil have your mythical ghost that will rear up and level Obama as if he hasnt been vetted for the past two years.
BOO! Will simply not work

Posted by: feastorafamine | October 15, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Who will win the debate tonight? It really depends which John McCain shows up. Will it be the old, grumpy, condescending McCain? Or will it be the old, confused, eratic, can't decide which strategy (tactic?) to follow McCain? We're assured, however, that we will once again see the calm, cool and collected Barack Obama.

Either way, we're not going to hear anything new because both candidates' policies and beliefs are well known. It would be very unusual to hear a "gotcha" line at this point in the campaign.

Besides, I really don't believe the final debate is going to change anything. Trends seem to indicate that Obama will be elected in a landslide on November 4.

Posted by: dastubbs | October 15, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Wow Zouk really clever reasoning.

Dems are guilty of procedural ignorance AND sinister insider business as usual corruption. We're somehow engineering all of the spending in Washington (with razor thin margins and a neocon Pres) and yet we're leaderless and ineffectual.

And of course our nominee is both a naive outsider AND a corrupt machine insider! He's proposing a complex agenda of radical socialism AND he has no agenda. He's a secret Muslim AND a Christian radical.

You may have mastered smear but it won't work without message discipline. The more forcefully you promote competing negative narratives, the more the public realizes that NONE of them are true.

Lies about Kerry and Gore stuck because the Republicans stuck to a consistent theme of deceit. You guys seem so overcome with hate for Dems that you don't even remember why you're bashing us. The attack stream this year has been so nonsensical that voters are actually listening to PLANS and IDEAS, which leaves you empty-handed.

OBAMA 08

Posted by: jasinderbrand | October 15, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

drindl - Actually, those making more than $1 million get 90% or more of the benefit of an capital gains tax deduction. Two-thirds of those *eligible* for that benefit make > $1,000,000 annually.

Posted by: mibrooks27 | October 15, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Rule number 6 from "the art of war"

Know when you are defeated.


Well, John Mccain, have you read this book?

Its going to be a sad three weeks coming up.

But notfor Me. I am still working hard to get Obama elected.

Posted by: pvogel88 | October 15, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

R's going dow in flames all over the country. What a joy to behold.

Posted by: drindl | October 15, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Here are some polls from this day in 2004, right before President Kerry was sworn in:

Below are some new national polls from Ohio University

Pollster Dates Kerry Bush
Ohio University Oct. 3-13 50 44
Ohio University Oct. 3-13 50 45

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse



HEMPSTEAD, New York -- New polls out Wednesday in some crucial states that could decide the race for the White House suggest Sen. John McCain is having to defend himself in areas that once were reliably Republican.

New polls suggest that Sen. John McCain is trailing his opponent in several GOP strongholds.

A new CNN/Time Magazine/Opinion Research Corporation survey in Virginia released Wednesday indicates that Sen. Barack Obama holds a 10-point lead over McCain -- 53 percent to 43 percent among likely voters.

President Bush won Virginia by nine points over Sen. John Kerry in 2004, and the state hasn't voted for a Democrat in a presidential election since 1964.

"Obama is winning men and women in Virginia, and is doing well across the state east of the Blue Ridge Mountains," CNN polling director Keating Holland said.

It's a similar story in Colorado, a state that hasn't voted for a Democrat in the race for the White House in 16 years. The new poll indicates the Illinois senator holds a four-point edge over McCain, 51 percent to 47 percent. Watch more on if Colorado could go blue »

And in Georgia, a state that Bush won by 17 points over Kerry four years ago and that hasn't voted for the Democrats in a presidential contest in 16 years, the poll suggests only a 6-point lead for McCain, 51 percent to 45 percent.

Posted by: drindl | October 15, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

goddamn america

i sat in those pews for 20 years,
but no, I never really listened
to anything rev.wright said, I quess.

I will say anything to get your vote,
if you feel you need change in your
life, just relax, and vote for me,
it is as easy as that.

I love being a sheep,
I love obama obama obama
I can just let his will be done.

NOBAMA

Posted by: USA3 | October 15, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

everyone wants an entire change of administration""

Are you wisely advocating we dump Pelousy and Reid or do you prefer more of the same - aka business as usual. corruption, spending, leaderless and ignorant?

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

; talk out your a-hole, have no idea what you're saying, show no fear, just put it out there,""

and who says you can't learn anything from a Democrat. I am not surprised this appeals to you; your candidate is serving it up in a big steaming pile.

Q: How long can you hide from yourself?

A: just give it three more weeks.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

No one will know who won the debate (until they watch the replays on YoutTube the next day) because everyone watching will be playing a drinking game with 'my friends' or 'ayers' or 'terrorist' (or all of the above and then some) and won't be able to concentrate on anything else.

If viewers look at the Dow first, they'll start drinking long before the debate even starts.

Bottom line: no matter what happens in the debate, everyone wants an entire change of administration and Obama's going to win in a landslide of "anything would be better than this".

Posted by: TomJx | October 15, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

"King of Zouk - your majesty, you have been punked ""

Must be one of those "fake but true" things. Dan Rather would be proud.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

I see Chris C on the MsNbc often,
such a well behaved obama boy,
very obediant,
bowing when they speak the
one's name,
oOOOObamaYeahbabydomedomemememe


Nobama08

Posted by: USA3 | October 15, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

wilbur, looks like those animal
lovers are going to stone me,
a talking horse is just a bit
above a republican, Wilbur...
wilbur....
Help!

Posted by: USA3 | October 15, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

ddawd writes
"I recommend watching the debate on CSPAN. No graph in the middle of the screen, no stupid pundits, split screen shot of the two candidates. Good stuff."

For the cable-impaired, like me, the answer is PBS. No split screen, no graphs, the pundits are reasonably bright (Brooks & Shields).

Posted by: bsimon1 | October 15, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

This hand-wringing over the structure of the tax code is sickening, as is the argument over Biden's remark that paying one's fair share is patriotic.

Americans seem to have forgot that we are citizens first, with responsibilities to our families and to our country. Defining ourselves as taxpayers and consumers is a limiting and demeaning effort. We don't have a limited government, we have not had limited government since the (first) Great Depression, and the world is too dangerous a place for us to ever have a limited government again. We have a tax system that relies largely on self-reporting and our voluntary filing of returns and payment of tax liabilities, and its one of our duties as citizens to pay the taxes we need to support and defend the United States. If you don't want to consider that duty to be patriotic, too bad for you.


And Ronald Reagan, and Reaganism, have become myths of a man and a philosophy that are gone forever.

Let's move past them.

We're not going to save enough to buy our way out of our national debt, and it's foolish to think that we are. And tax cuts just won't result in the kind of productivity that we need either.

We're going to need to increase our tax liabilities, and pay our fair shares to save ourselves from the stupidity and greed of the past 25 years.

How about we all act like adult citizens of the United States of America, and stop acting like spoiled consumers chasing after cheap goods while trying to avoid paying for the social structure that makes us a civilized people.

Posted by: jackson251 | October 15, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

scrivener50-
Oh oh you skimmed too much. Better go back and read again, this problem points squarely to Bush/Cheney/Republican policy and fear mongering for the last 8 years. Remember when we could talk on the phone privately, vote without intimidation, you had to have pesky permits for guns and couldn't own/carry assault rifles? Sorry, your domestic terror label doesn't stick to liberals/democrats or moderates. It's your GOP friends screaming "kill him" at rallies. It's 8 years of Republican policy that brought down our financial markets and let the top 1% scurry away to their Cayman acccounts. If that isn't terror, I don't know what is.

Posted by: LLS-America | October 15, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Please, don't think we haven't been tracking your rhetorical stink-bombs on this board.

Posted by: LABC | October 15, 2008 3:46 PM |


***********************

At last! An honest troll. "They" ARE tracking comments, looking for "dissidents" as part of a covert, unconstitutional and expensive effort to weed out the opposition to whatever "they" want to do -- at least that's a plausible theory.

Don't think that's possible in America? Neither did I. Most liberal-progressives are so naive that they still don't think so.

Then I found out THIS is happening in America -- and the frightening truth is revealed:

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/american-gestapo-state-supported-terrorism-targets-u-s-citizens

What good is the political process if the rule of law is subverted?


Posted by: scrivener50 |
**************************
What the heck are you talking about? Billw makes his daily pilgrimage here to throw whatever GOP feces he has against Obama- that is what I am talking about tracking, i.e. skimming through until I get to the end of the thread.

Posted by: LABC | October 15, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Oh LABC, why'd you ruin the fun?!? The king's just doing what he's programmed to do and those of us who actually educate ourselves were enjoying the desperation of his Klan's campaign. I know you couldn't resist injecting some actual facts, thanks for that.

Posted by: LLS-America |
*****************************
I know - I should let his hiiiighness hoist himself on his own peTARD, but it was too ridiculous to pass up. I am sure that he is waiting breathlessly for the next set of GOP talking points.

Posted by: LABC | October 15, 2008 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Please, don't think we haven't been tracking your rhetorical stink-bombs on this board.

Posted by: LABC | October 15, 2008 3:46 PM |


***********************

At last! An honest troll. "They" ARE tracking comments, looking for "dissidents" as part of a covert, unconstitutional and expensive effort to weed out the opposition to whatever "they" want to do -- at least that's a plausible theory.

Don't think that's possible in America? Neither did I. Most liberal-progressives are so naive that they still don't think so.

Then I found out THIS is happening in America -- and the frightening truth is revealed:

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/american-gestapo-state-supported-terrorism-targets-u-s-citizens

What good is the political process if the rule of law is subverted?

Posted by: scrivener50 | October 15, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

The GOP Rats are Deserting the USS McCain in Titanic Proportions


The Republican rats are all jumping the ship. The USS McCain/Titanic is in full sink mode and all the traditional Republicans, strategists and party faithful are running away as fast as they can.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbjg9Hh17lI
.


All of these Republican water-carriers who faithfully parroted every lunacy and vicious Bush/Cheney lie of the last eight years are seeing their Propaganda Factory shut down and put out of business. They can't control the national conversation anymore, so they're all angling to be considered "one of the good ones" in the post-conservative era. I also look for a lot of these guys to start avoiding Fixed News Channel like the plague the next few years as they seek to rehab their reputations.
.

Posted by: DrainYou | October 15, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Oh LABC, why'd you ruin the fun?!? The king's just doing what he's programmed to do and those of us who actually educate ourselves were enjoying the desperation of his Klan's campaign. I know you couldn't resist injecting some actual facts, thanks for that.

Posted by: LLS-America | October 15, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

king_of_zouk you say a lot of really dumb stuff, I like your style; talk out your a-hole, have no idea what you're saying, show no fear, just put it out there, you rule. Give us more.

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

By the way, once again, I recommend watching the debate on CSPAN. No graph in the middle of the screen, no stupid pundits, split screen shot of the two candidates. Good stuff.

Posted by: DDAWD | October 15, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

King of Zouk - your majesty, you have been punked - but, no real surprise - you are as dumb as a post...
******************************
"Over at The Corner, Byron York has had to post an item officially alerting the right wing of the blogosphere that an article purporting to be a genuine interview with Michelle Obama, is in fact a fake. The article, from an organization calling itself "African Press International," claims to have gotten a phone call from an irate Michelle Obama, in which she railed at the outlet for "spread[ing] rumours created by American bloggers and other racist media outlets in their efforts to damage a black man's name," and "evil people who are out to stop her husband from getting the presidency." The fake Michelle Obama insists that her husband "loves his country" and promises the organization favorable treatment if they "write a good story about her husband."

Naturally, a mere contemplation of the obvious should have short-circuited the belief that this interview was real, thus sparing York from having to point it out. The Obama campaign has been, throughout the season, notoriously disciplined and highly aloof from the press, so it's unlikely that Michelle Obama would have the green light to be calling up random bloggers to yell at them. If she did, she'd be doing that all the damned time! But Michelle is clearly working hard to avoid courting controversy. For crying out loud -- her appearance on "Paula Deen's Party" could be aptly described as "rigorously on-message," and all she was doing was frying some shrimp with one of the most ridiculously lovable hosts of the Food Network.

Beyond that, there were obvious signs that the interview, and the organization, is fakety-fake McFake. For example: there are two "r's" in "Farrakhan." "Inauguration" is not spelled "innoguration." And you'd think that a writer for "African Press International" would be clear on the concept of capitalizing one's own publication's name. Nevertheless, these obvious signs proved too elusive for some people, hence Byron York's involvement."

Posted by: LABC | October 15, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

I predict Senator McCain will offer a new government program, being he's the new tax-and-spend candidate.

Senator Obama will once again show determination, deliberation, and resolve and make 51% of Americans feel he should be president of the US.

Posted by: amaikovich | October 15, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

ow! it hurts I'm really stupid, I made a lot of bad choices, my party let me down, they were wrong and I was wrong, boo hoo. I'm so mad, I was fooled but I can't admit it, I'm to stupid to. I'm middle class and no one gives an F about me but these really rich people keep pretending that they do. Why am I so stupid? It's the media they're not saying the things I want to hear, it can't be true. Why is everybody against the guy I chanted "4 more years" for? Why did he have to be even stupider then me? I'll pretend this old pants pisser and the hot broad are a good option. I remember when it was fine to hate black people. Why do I have to be so stupid? Well, I'm not gonna stop now.

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

USA 3 writes:

"Put your 401K money in a guaranteed fund,
then take out the $10,000 that obama
is proposing,
and buy EXXON....
and ride out this socialist storm.
Good Luck, America!"

LOL I always log in here to get my investment advice (chortle, chortle).

( :

Posted by: mathas | October 15, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

RT Fan writes:

"After careful consideration,I will not recognize Obama as legitimate nor will I submit to this coup d'etat .
I make the above statements as an American first and not as a partisan in the name of the 85,000 Americans who died fighting Communism. No American with honor will accept a Communist leader."


Some American, you're not going to "accept" (what exactly does that mean anyway) the next democratically elected POTUS if it's Obama.

You throw up some bogus smoke screen about communism while wrapping yourself in the flag and invoking dead vets. What's next, sing a stanza or two of God Bless America ?

Here's an option, emigrate. The exit door is wide open. Don't let that door hit you on the a$$ on the way out.

Posted by: mathas | October 15, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

LLS-America:
"Hey Billw3, Kdog1, king_of zouk and 37thandOstreet,
Any chance you're going to take off your hoods soon and proclaim yourselves the leaders of the next Reich?"

Hey cowboy, anything of substance to say, or is it above your pay grade?

.

Posted by: Billw3
*************************
You're talking about discussions of substance or above a grade level? Dummy, please... I would say the comments from you and those bozos are at grade level - fifth grade level...Please, don't think we haven't been tracking your rhetorical stink-bombs on this board.

Posted by: LABC | October 15, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

"Hey Beef breath,

Since you are an Obama troll.... please tell me some of his grand plans as Obama seems to be chicken to tell anyone his ideas."

why should he? if you're to stupid to figure it out, you'll have to wait and see. Sorry, you'll be left out, that's what you get for being stupid. ha ha, it's not for you, you're to stupid, now sit on the sidelines and say a lot of stupid stuff, and thank you for the last 8 stupid years.

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Brodie writes:

"This is probably the last opportunity for a Black to be president. It took the Negroes 400 years to achieve 14% of the population, and now Hispanics have gone from zero to 30% in a mere couple of decades! All future nonwhite presidents will be Mexican-Americans, and ultimately there will be no more White presidents, as the United States is transformed into just one more Spanish country in the Western Hemisphere."


Wow, I thought Nostradamus was dead.

Posted by: mathas | October 15, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Senator Allied with ACORN as Recently as 2006, Now Turns Cold Shoulder

October 13, 2008, Miami, FL - U.S. Senator John McCain's recent attacks on the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) are puzzling given his historic support for the organization and its efforts on behalf of immigrant Americans. As recently as February 20, 2006, Senator McCain was the keynote speaker at an ACORN-sponsored Immigration Rally in Miami, Florida at Miami Dade College – Wolfson Campus.

Posted by: Maxwell_Smart | October 15, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Eligibility for the Presidency of the United States:

Must be a Natural-Born Citizen (defined by US Code as the child of a US Citizen or anyone born in the United States--Obama is both)

Must 35 years old and be a citizen of the United States 14 years (even if Obama or McCain had previously held citizenship in another nation repatriated as recently as 1994 they would be eligible, but at no point in his life has Obama not been a US citizen)

Cannot have served two terms as POTUS already (if only GWB's economic policies were term-limited--McCain would have to drop out today)

Posted by: jasinderbrand | October 15, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

I think Obama will win, but not by an outstanding performance,just by being himself.McCain gets riled too easily, which makes him look very unpresidential.Also if McCain does the taboo thing and brings up past associations,he will get himself even more riled in doing so. Very unattractive!

Posted by: puredemo | October 15, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Bill3w,
Nothing else to say, couldn't resist getting down to your level. Not sure what pay grade has to do with it..oh yeah, you GOP types like to think that money is more important than moral fiber or rational discussion. Glad you think you're superior, it's important for people to feel good about themselves. Ignorance is bliss.

Posted by: LLS-America | October 15, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Joe Biden said he would be proud to run with McCain.

so far not a single person has stepped forward to vouch for Obama. Everyone who has been revealed has been sent to a secret hiding place - including his wife.

with friends like his......

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Dear GOP drones: You CANNOT call Obama a socialist when YOUR president just presided over the most communistic economic bailout this country has ever seen. You CANNOT call Obama financially dangerous when YOUR president has brought us to our knees with a rising $10 trillion debt, near-$500 billion deficit, and soon a New Depression while he bleeds us to China.

Not to mention the fact that YOUR presidents -- Bush Jr, Bush Sr, Reagan -- all RAISED our national debt and left us with deficits, while the last 2 Democrats in charge actually LOWERED it. How dare you perpetuate the "big liberal spenders" lie.

You CANNOT call Obama a security concern when YOUR president has taken us well into the 6th year of an unwinnable war that has already cost us over 4,000 lives, trillions of secured debt, bred more anti-American animosity than ever, and has destroyed our standing on planet earth. YOUR president sees nothing wrong with torture, wire-tapping, shredding the Constitution, etc, etc.

YOUR "maverick" candidate supported Bush over 90% of the time, even abandoning his own ideals to tow the party line. And you call OBAMA a threat? Wake up!

Posted by: jwervel16 | October 15, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

DrainYou --

You forgot

John Wilks Booth - Assasinated Abraham Lincoln

Posted by: DougH1 | October 15, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

I think fewer people than last week will tune into this final debate. Most voters have made up their minds about whom to vote for.

The impact of the debates is as follows:

First debate -- Obama established his intellectual superiority and his knowledge and judgment strengths in foreign policy. Advantage: Obama

Second debate -- Obama confirmed his physical superiority as a strong, healthy, lively, and graceful presence. He looked like the president of the United States while McCain wandered the stage lost, fretful, and angry. Advantage: Obama

Third debate -- Character issues will predominate. If McCain raises the lame Ayres/Wright/Rezko flimflam, Obama takes the high ground as a man of substance, control, depth, and honor. If McCain does not bring up Ayres et al. he looks like a blustering coward. Either way, Advantage: Obama

Posted by: dee5 | October 15, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

The real problem is this:

McCain is incoherent when he talks about the economy. Obama on the other hand has a skill at making his points both understandable, but often times even interesting.

There is always of course the media spin and the "polls," but McCain faces a fundamental problem: the economy is not his strong point and we are in the middle of an economic meltdown.

Someone with better speaking skills could still get an advantage out of the situation, but McCain has such a difficult time articulating things outside of the "prisoner of war maverick" sub-genre, it is hard to imagine his medication suddenly adding brilliance in economic matters to his debate performance.

Posted by: storyofthefifthpeach | October 15, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

the truth hurts:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama’s plan to cut taxes on 95 percent of taxpayers would effectively increase government spending by an average of $64.8 billion a year and effectively raise income tax rates for many Americans, even on some earning $20-$50,000 per year, according to the non-partisan Tax Policy Center. (Snip) In real numbers, 60.7 million people who have no tax burden at all will receive refunds from Obama,

but does anyone ever really beleive a liberal when they talk finance and econ?

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

chris!! you are all over cable today, bud. good god. talking head extraordinaire.

Posted by: riotheokie | October 15, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

.
LLS-America:
"Hey Billw3, Kdog1, king_of zouk and 37thandOstreet,
Any chance you're going to take off your hoods soon and proclaim yourselves the leaders of the next Reich?"

Hey cowboy, anything of substance to say, or is it above your pay grade?

.

Posted by: Billw3 | October 15, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Last I checked Indonesian citizens are ineligible to be POTUS.

how kharmic that the messiah who won his first election by disqualifying the opposition is now subject to disqualification.

I wonder where he got the idea back then????

so think long and hard, do you really want President Biden who can't even count to four?

this has got his angry wife tied up in spitting knots.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

I might consider voting for an African-American like Thomas Sowell. But Obama is not really an African-American, in the sense of those who go back 400 years to the slaves who helped build this country. No, Obama is closer to being an African-Kenyan, with immediate family who still live in Africa.

It's too bad a REAL American Black couldn't have been anointed as the media's creation, rather than this Johnny-come-lately multiculturalist poster child. It is just insulting to those Blacks who have a real claim on being co-owners of this country, along with the posterity of those Whites who founded it.

This is probably the last opportunity for a Black to be president. It took the Negroes 400 years to achieve 14% of the population, and now Hispanics have gone from zero to 30% in a mere couple of decades! All future nonwhite presidents will be Mexican-Americans, and ultimately there will be no more White presidents, as the United States is transformed into just one more Spanish country in the Western Hemisphere.

Posted by: RichardBrodie | October 15, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

To borrow a riff from elsewhere, Obama will look calm and collected, practically ready to sing "Dock Of The Bay" to an adoring throng.

McCain will get more wound up as the evening progresses. Then his anger management will start to fail and he will finally look Obama in the eye and turn into a pillar of salt.

I'm taping this one!

Posted by: tony_in_Durham_NC | October 15, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Republicans will swear McCain won;
Democrats will swear Obama won;
Undecided voters will say its a tie.

In the end, it won't really matter. What matters is who shows up at the polls and who actually sends in their mail-in ballots...which is what I'm going to do right now.

Posted by: jandcgall1 | October 15, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Hey Billw3, Kdog1, king_of zouk and 37thandOstreet,
Any chance you're going to take off your hoods soon and proclaim yourselves the leaders of the next Reich? If so, please move to Alaska.

Posted by: LLS-America | October 15, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

.
"Why is it that Obama has tried to distance himself from so many people that have been connected to him for years... many, many years????"

They are suckful people of low moral fiber.

PS Birds of a feather flocked together.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | October 15, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

"Could the 'McCain Makes His Stand' storyline be too good for the media to resist tonight? Advantage: McCain"

Chris – apparently you're saying the MSM are willing to make up an evaluation of the debate based on what they believe would be the more interesting storyline.

Is that journalism, or fraud?

Posted by: FlownOver | October 15, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

.
"Why is it that Obama has tried to distance himself from so many people that have been connected to him for years... many, many years????"

They are suckful people of low moral fiber.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | October 15, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

October surprise:

“There is no shame in being adopted by a step father. All dirt has been thrown onto my husband’s face and yet he loves this country. My husband and I know that there is no law that will stop him from becoming the president, just because some American white racists are bringing up the issue of my husband’s adoption by his step father, The important thing here is where my husband’s heart is at the moment. I can tell the American people that my husband loves this country and his adoption has never changed his love for this country. He was born in Hawaii, yes, and that gives him all the right to be an American citizen even though he was adopted by a foreigner, (emphasis added) says Michelle Obama on telefon (sic) to API.”


sorry mean michelle, that's not the way it works.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

so Obama is not eligible to be President - so says his angry wife:

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5576

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

McCain needs to explain why he chose Palin. As many on his own side have acknowledged, she's far from capable of handling the presidency. McCain's has betrayed his own, long-held values; by this political ploy he's actually endangered the welfare of our nation. Obama should ask him why his campaign partner won't sit down on Meet the Press or some other Sunday roundtable. If she can't handle that, it's obvious she could never handle being Leader of the Free World. In my opinion, it's very nearly a crime that she refuses to submit to honest public scrutiny.

But alas, Obama probably won't touch that (unfairly) sensitive topic. On the positive side, he probably doesn't have to. The American people have seen through this disgraceful hiding of a potential President from the voters--probably a big reason Obama is so far ahead in the polls.

McCain's decision to cast off his values and make a game of his campaign is tragic, but that's been his choice. In buckling under the advice of his Rovian advisors and his own desperation to be President, McCain deserves to lose.

Posted by: yogi11 | October 15, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Despite six years and $49.2 million spent to improve schools in the Chicago area, an education reform initiative run by Barack Obama was less than effective, according to two studies, with one in particular describing the grant program as a ''failure'' that had ''little impact on school improvement and student outcomes.'' (Snip) the Challenge had little impact on school improvement and student outcomes, with no statistical differences between Annenberg and non-Annenberg schools

a preview of the Dept of education under Obama / ayers

spend a lot of money brainwashing the kids, not teaching.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

hey chris,

love your column and look forward to seeing you among the prognosticistas on msnbc, et al. this twitter thing, though... so far i have not seen much value in the instantaneous evals during any of the previous three debates. wouldn't that time be better spent taking notes, or is that what this is? note-taking the rest of us can read in real time?

you pour your pumpkin latte and type like a madman. i'll pour a martini and sit back on the couch and take in the post-debate punditry that seems to be a little more meaty.

btw, rating the best of the politics on the tube...

1) MSNBC
2) PBS
3) CNN
4) FOX

and of course we check in with the Fix to break it all down.

Posted by: bevan_w | October 15, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Obama has ducked question after question about what he wants to do with the country. The past 3 weeks he has answered questions about what he would do by stating what he would not do... why??? Why is he so scared of letting people know who he is?? Why did he have to "remake" his image???? Why did Mchelle have to remake hers??

Wy is it that Obama has tried to distance himself from so many people that have been connected to him for years... many, many years????

ACORN - Rev. Jackson - Rev. Wright - Ayers - Farakahn... just to name a few.

Maybe these people do reflect his ideaology and he knows America would never accept him as such.... hmmmmmmm ...... makes you wonder!!!

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Kdog1 and other GOP trolls: Go to barackobama.com/plan and you will find an extensive list of Obama's detailed plans, proposals and philosophies regarding several economic issues. Don't stop there--read reviews of these plans as well as McCain's by credited economists. Both candidates have their positive and negative attributes, but at least when pressed Obama can supply more details than "taxes are bad."

Of course Obama (and McCain) don't outline their proposals in explicit detail in every speech--the reason is that we tend to lose attention if it can't be summed up in 30 seconds. Reagan knew that, Clinton knew that, and the current occupant is known for his ability to stick to talking points. I would like to see more substance too, but I think we can all acknowledge that substance on its own does not win elections.

If the public demands specifics from BOTH candidates, maybe this will change, but for now, do your homework before assuming that the substance doesn't exist.

Posted by: jasinderbrand | October 15, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Oops, forgot to add: One of the reasons McCain can't change the outcome of this election is that there is nothing he can do to remedy the problem of Sarah Palin.

That mistake is rotting albatross around John McCain's neck.

Posted by: ksh011 | October 15, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Hey feastorafamine,

You purchase your computer with welfare money?? Seems like most of the posters who favor the "fairness" (which means stealing money from people who actually earned it to give to those who don't.... or wealth redistribution.... AKA socialism) platform are only looking for more free money.

Earn your moneyu the old fashioned way... work for it!!

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

-----------------------
WHOOOHOO!
ONCE AGAIN
all you can do when presented with pesky things like FACTS is insult people.
I can assure you buddy i pay my taxes, i work for a living and i have never collected welfare.
Have anything substanative to discuss?
Once again i ask you....
Is the supply-side economic model not wealth distribution?
Doesnt that comprise of concentrating wealth at the top with the misguided and fatal beleif it will "trickle down?"
Please by all means enlighten me "my friend" tell me all about wealth distribution. Tell me all about the fiscal success of the GOP economic model that has been eroding this country. Have any other "facts" i can show to be ill-informed lies? Do you know anything about taxes? Know anything about tax rates as related to income?
You know like the fact that Warren Buffets secretary pays a higher tax rate than him, one of the welathiest men in the world?
Please enlighten me...unless you simply want to fling more poop. Seems like you excell with the later.

Posted by: feastorafamine | October 15, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I wonder what will be the result of McCain bringing up Ayers if he does so. It seems like something that Obama could have the chance to dramatically shoot down. He can talk about how all this happened when Obama was 8 years old, he can talk about how this is an attempt to distract from the issues, he can bring up McCain's own associations (I doubt he will do this)

I think Obama intentionally baited McCain into bringing up Ayers. I think it will backfire.

Posted by: DDAWD | October 15, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

It's really amazing to me that Obama who has done everything right, lives the American Dream, helps others, works his way up, is tolerant of others, offers redemption to those that help others, can be so scary to right wing nuts who claim that the US is the greatest country on earth. What makes it so great to you if not living out the dream successfully? What better way to build our economy than investing in ourselves and strengthening from the inside out? I was on the 35W bridge that day....we need to be cognizant that our country is literally and morally rotting while the Republicans work on making the top 1% wealthier and alienating us from the rest of the world. McCain's "plan" is the Bush plan worded differently. This election is not about race it's about bringing strength back to the majority of Americans low and middle class workers, families and moderate thinking people. We need a president who thinks and consults, not one that thinks he knows all the answers and acts like a moving target on all the issues. We've had a leader like that for the last 8 years, really.....are you better off if you make less than $1 million a year? Look in the mirror, don't blink, vote Obama '08, put your country first.

Posted by: LLS-America | October 15, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

.
We have a suckful situation here... Gallup shows McCain down 7 points, or down 3 with likely voters. Maybe it would have helped McCain, had he accompanied Obama to Wright's church for 20 years.

.

Posted by: Billw3 | October 15, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

QUOTE: "most of the posters who favor the "fairness" (which means stealing money from people who actually earned it to give to those who don't...."

I (and the rest of the middle class) are SO tired and insulted that people like you seem to CONSTANTLY assume that the middle class and below don't work just as HARD as you do.

Posted by: tdub55 | October 15, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

McCain will do well tonight, but it won't matter. It's too late.

His manner will be more presidential; he'll try to bring out the "old John McCain" just as many pundits have suggested.

Scheiffer will throw him a bone and bring up Ayers himself, giving McCain a chance to say something like, "yeah, it's a questionable connection, but let's move on and talk about what the voters want to hear."

His policies and positions will not seem any more relevant than they have to date. He'll bring up the specter of the power of a Dem Congress and a Dem president and may get some traction with that.

He'll conduct himself well. Maybe he'll even win the debate. Not as many people will watch. He may help tighten the race, but he won't change the outcome.

It's too little too late.

Posted by: ksh011 | October 15, 2008 2:58 PM | Report abuse

On the subject of polls i'd say that, in the context of this last debate, McCain has the advantage. Its a natural human response to root for the underdog, however odious his running mate is.

Posted by: st_roland | October 15, 2008 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Senator McCain will need to make some incredibly strong points tonight and also
somehow overcome his decision to select an unqualified running mate. That's really why he's behind. It's not her fault but he's been receiving (and following) some very bad advice. I believe he'd be ahead if not for that. www.LikeSoup.com

Posted by: jc2728 | October 15, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Despite that the polls show an ever widening lead for Obama, the media will feel compelled to treat this as a horse race, so they will play up the "newly energized McCain" or the "come from behind McCain." But the message isn't any different. Chris, did you see the Daily Show's take on McCain's "new" campaign messages last night? You guys in the media always seem to miss the obvious!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=188475&title=mccains-brand-new-stump-speech

Posted by: sparkemon | October 15, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

BRADLEY EFFECT + ?ABLE ELECTRONIC VOTING = 2000 REDUX?

Obama needs to be aggressive tonight and NOT just sit on his "lead" -- because there may be no lead at all by Election Day.

Today's Politico lead story indicates that the Rev. Wright issue will be resurrected in McCain TV advertising... alongside of Rezko, Ayers and ACORN.


If McCain plays "guilt by association," Obama should bring up the Alaska Independence Party; Todd Palin's membership in a group that advocates seccession from the U.S.; its founder's anti-American statements; and ask the question:

"Is your running mate Sarah Palin palling around with someone who pals around with enemies of the state?

If Obama lays back, he could see his lead diminish as the "fear factor" takes hold -- as it always seems to do in the waning days of recent presidential campaigns.

ARE THE McCAIN-PALIN CROWD AGITATORS THE SAME STORMTROOPERS WHO DO THIS:

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/american-gestapo-state-supported-terrorism-targets-u-s-citizens

What if McCain's real strategy is aimed NOT at voters, but at the apparachik?

McCAIN-PALIN'S 'FELLOW TRAVELER' INSINUATIONS:
WHAT IF U.S. SECURITY FORCES AGREE?

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/mccain-palins-fellow-traveler-insinuations-what-if-u-s-security-forces-agree
OR members.nowpublic.com/scrivener

Posted by: scrivener50 | October 15, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

The Wingnuts are seeing their 90's power grap being yanked away from them because of their own incompetence and they're throwing a tantrum. After controlling the white house for the last eight years and controlling congress for ten of the last twelve years they've proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that conservatism is a failed ideology and now they're panicking.


Here's some straight-talk, my friends:
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4egXbhSOhk
.

Posted by: DrainYou | October 15, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Hey feastorafamine,

You purchase your computer with welfare money?? Seems like most of the posters who favor the "fairness" (which means stealing money from people who actually earned it to give to those who don't.... or wealth redistribution.... AKA socialism) platform are only looking for more free money.

Earn your moneyu the old fashioned way... work for it!!

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Obama cannot lose the debate and will not lose the election. Old and tired, McSame needs a nap and he'll get one after Nov 4.

Posted by: AbolhassanBaniSadr | October 15, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

It does appear Obama will win. A man who:

1. will be in charge of the FBI, CIA, and every other agency of this kind even though he could not get a job at any of them as a desk jockey with his history.

-------------------

I'm tired of this lie. I guess it's making the rounds in emails to replace the "Obama is a secret Muslim" ones.

For the record, I have a past similar to Obama's (in the sense of things his detractors find as negatives - not his achievements, though), and I possess a security clearance within the DoD. We also have Muslims with security clearances (try not to faint ;)

Posted by: hitpoints | October 15, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

The commenters here who support either Obama or McCain may be right or wrong, may have good reasons or bad, but at least we are facing the reality that next January either Obama or McCain will be sworn in as President of the United States.

The rest of you are as delusional as your make-believe heroes. When someone has already tried running for president as a third-party candidate three times as a strategy for improving the country, and the country is, by this candidate's own admission, WORSE after the first three tries, why would you think that trying the same strategy again would be effective?

If you hate the two-party system or you hate the two major parties, why not develop an effective strategy, such as building a viable third party over time, rather than just performing this little nose-thumbing operation at election time?

Sometimes in real life, you don't get to choose between bad and perfect. And when you have a choice between imperfect and worse, it can often make a much bigger difference than you think to choose the best option that is actually available to you.

Posted by: DoTheMath | October 15, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Dear Beef Breath,

Thank you so much for asking people to read my posts.... the more people that do read them will be reminded of how weak Obama is.

Can you please try to do better with your posts??? They're kind of weak too.

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

News flash for everyone in the lower-middle to lower-upper class.

Socialism as supported by Obama's policies will not help you. The rich WILL remain rich and you ALWAYS WILL have the poor, but when someone plays with social engineering it's the every day hard working Joe that eats the costs.

Does anyone actually believe the wealthy will not know how to pass on ALL OF THEIR LOSSES to everyone else???

Carter ran the same platform Obama claims as his "new" platform and Carter produced the same thing we see in most of the european countries that have a socialistic system:

Double digit inflation

Double digit unemployment

Double digit interest rates

lower aggregate standard of living

In fact usually you'll see more people move from the middle to the lower class than you'll see move from the lower to the middle.

Obama is correct though when he states the middle class has shrunk under Bush... that is correct. He forgot to tell you that 2/3s of those people moved to the upper class while 1/3 went down.

Funny how you liberal dems hate success.

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

------------------------
REALLY?
Have any sources?
I have one and a right wing paper to boot....Wages have been FLAT since BUsh took office.
PLEASE dont bother submitting your wishful thinking as fact.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/27/household-incomes-flat-during-bush-administration/

Also spare us your commie socialism BS. We've heard it all before...ya know...over the last 8 years of supply-side economics. You know the voodoo economics that has led to 10 TRILLION in debt, turing the largest surplus in US History into the largest debt ever in the history of the planet.
Here is your platform...
Give to the rich and watch it "trickle down"
Privitize the profits, socialise the losses.
Supply-side economics isnt wealth distribution?
The richest 1% of adults alone owned 40% of global assets in the year 2000, and that the richest 10% of adults accounted for 85% of the world total. The bottom half of the world adult population owned barely 1% of global wealth.
Please by all means SOURCE your assertions....oh wait i forgot, its only your paranoid opinion masquerading as fact.

Posted by: feastorafamine | October 15, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

"Has anyone seriously take a step back and think what’s causing the current economic crisis?"

Yes.

"I strongly believed it has to do with the fact that Obama may win the presidency and investors don't want to take a risk on his watch."

You're wrong. Please read up.

Posted by: hitpoints | October 15, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Kdog are you kidding me? The wallstreet bailout was the beginning of American Socialism and George Bush is going to be the president who presided over this.

Posted by: bowecy | October 15, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Not to fear Beef Breath!!!!

I always give 10% of my wealth to feed the poor.

If Obama wins I'll send you some chicken soup so you won't starve.

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Hey Beef breath,

Since you are an Obama troll.... please tell me some of his grand plans as Obama seems to be chicken to tell anyone his ideas.

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

MCCAIN WILL WIN BY A KNOCKOUT

If he pummels Obama with AAA:

Ayers

Acorn

Attack

OBAMA- HE HATES AMERICA

How is Obama like Osama?

They both have personal friends who have bombed the Pentagon.......

Posted by: JaxMax | October 15, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

-----------
KOO KOO
KOO KOO
Go back in your little clock and take your bumper stickers with you.
Wanna take a gander at the electoral map?
Wanna take a gander at the polls in battleground states?
Wanna pull your head out?
Oh wait i forgot you live in a little clock

Posted by: feastorafamine | October 15, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

News flash for everyone in the lower-middle to lower-upper class.

Socialism as supported by Obama's policies will not help you. The rich WILL remain rich and you ALWAYS WILL have the poor, but when someone plays with social engineering it's the every day hard working Joe that eats the costs.

Does anyone actually believe the wealthy will not know how to pass on ALL OF THEIR LOSSES to everyone else???

Carter ran the same platform Obama claims as his "new" platform and Carter produced the same thing we see in most of the european countries that have a socialistic system:

Double digit inflation

Double digit unemployment

Double digit interest rates

lower aggregate standard of living

In fact usually you'll see more people move from the middle to the lower class than you'll see move from the lower to the middle.

Obama is correct though when he states the middle class has shrunk under Bush... that is correct. He forgot to tell you that 2/3s of those people moved to the upper class while 1/3 went down.

Funny how you liberal dems hate success.

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

are you people missing the retarded genius that is Kdog1? He is all worked up and sputtering and typing away. He's the greatest. here are some quotes (I love it when he say's "Oh Boy")


"BUT OBAMA IS SO SMART……
Is that the same Obama? Is that the same Obama who’s great plan – Brilliant plan oh wise one!!!Oh, and let’s not forget Oh boy!!!! Yes, Yes…. I am sure that will fix everything!!!! Oh and the classic thing… that was truly inspiring…..Who had it right on day one. Wow… that’s impressive…. .Yes, truly this man is a genius!!!"

He say's a lot of other geeky stuff that is kind of boring and stupid but these are some great highlights. Get into the Kdog1 he is the best.

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Many of the GOP supports argurments are truely amazing. McCain has stated over and over again how he has supported Bush and his policies. McCain made the statements loudly and proudly. Now all he has is making up lies about Obama. Obama may not have all the answers but the ones he does have sound better than anything fron ole "Protect the rich" McCain has come up with. All he can do is cry about Ayers. Obama was all of 8 years old then. How old was McCain during his involment with the Keating Five scandal. More than 8. You Betcha. Their crying about Acorn is another topic. Obama is not in charge of Acorn and should have no contol over their actions. Keeping in mind there has been no proof that Acron has even done anything wrong. The GOP is fighting windmills hoping to dig up something. After the way they stole the elections in 2000 and 2004, then did all they could to destroy this country,everything from wall street to stealing our rights and ignoring the constitution, they can not be trusted to look after the welfare of our country. McCain has a honorable war record but that doesn't give him the tools to be president any more than any other vet. As for Palin, McCain must have been recovering from a stroke or something to have chosen her for a running mate. This women is a bigger liar than Dick Cheney and is dumber than George Bush. To consider McCain/Palin for the white house is a vote to destroy America. The GOP will continue to steal from the middle class to support the rich and laugh while they send jobs out of this country and give tax breaks to do it. Their policies have been insane and we, a citizens have been insane also to have allowed it to go on so long.

Posted by: Hopinghere2 | October 15, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Senator McCain is reported by many sources to be short tempered and some one who loves gambling. He also quoted as saying that he has an advantage over Obama since “He is a leader for troubled times”. (N.Y.Times Tuesday 10/14/08 page A17).The article quotes him as saying that the next president “won’t have the luxury of studying up on the issues before he acts”.

Should we be electing an individual as our President who loves gambling, "shoots at first sight" so to speak, and seeks expediency and speed over deliberations when making urgent decisions and during "troubled times"?

Posted by: klrehman | October 15, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Obama will win because he's got vision and a high spark. He's sharp. McCain isn't...he's got a sluggish mind that will not retool easily. (this is so evident in his campaign style...he assumes his audience to be equally slow, and they have not disappointed him.) McCain, like Bush doesn't care that much about leading the country as an example to the world into a new economy, with new technologies and the value of peace for its own sake. It's all about America for McCain and it really isn't anymore, it's about America as a member of the global community. Obama sees the new path ahead, the path we didn't take when Gore lost. McCain is stuck in reruns.

Posted by: lucyb1 | October 15, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

There is so little common sense and allot of ignorance in this country. There is very little real journalism anymore...there is only opinion, often disguised as journalism, meant to incite an emotional response.

To get at the truth, one really has to work at it. It is so easy to tell who is getting all of their "information" from sources focused on the "right" or focused on the "left".

Can you tell who the thinkers are? I am equally appalled and amazed at how easily people will buy into the drama, created by the "media" (which, by the way, includes Rush Limbaugh), designed to heighten conflict and controversy where there isn't any, meant to misdirect and manipulate rather than to inform.

Posted by: Banobo | October 15, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

MCCAIN WILL WIN BY A KNOCKOUT

If he pummels Obama with AAA:

Ayers

Acorn

Attack

OBAMA- HE HATES AMERICA

How is Obama like Osama?

They both have personal friends who have bombed the Pentagon.......

Posted by: JaxMax | October 15, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

It will be interesting and fun to watch the GOP shrink to a few nativists haters, a couple of religious nuts, and the Kathryn Jean-Lopez's of the world in the next few years.


As long as the Rethuglican party continues to offer huge outsized tax breaks for the filthy rich and nothing for everyone else, the rightwing extremist nuts will be the only one's left carrying the GOPer banner after 2008.


I think it is going to be a while before we hear about the big tent Republican party.


Ladies and Germs...I give you your 2009 Republican party:


All hail the GOPer "pup tent party"!
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5mdIPNB8t8
.

Posted by: DrainYou | October 15, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Kdog1 AGAIN!!!

"The village is on fire and we're going to elect a fire breathing dragon to put it out..... PRICELESS!!!!"

and again!

"How fun!!! I see the small minded marxist socialistic Obama trolls are on today!!!"

Dragons and Trolls. Yes Kdog1. The Hobbit and all that. how do you do it? I love you so much. You're half Dungeons and Dragons nerd half retarded

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Hey Beefbreath this is for you!!!

BUT OBAMA IS SO SMART……

Is that the same Obama who thought there were 57 states (plus two more)???

Is that the same Obama who’s great plan for the auto industry – “under my administration there will be 1 million electric cars on the road in ten years”??? (uh… 2 terms will only get you eight years…. And…… uh…. There’s currently over 100 million cars on the road right now…. So…. Your big plan is 1% electric cars??? Brilliant plan oh wise one!!!

Oh, and let’s not forget – “we’re going to rebuild America’s infrastructure”…. Oh boy!!!! An army of road workers!!!! Yes, Yes…. I am sure that will fix everything!!!!

Oh and the classic air up your tires thing… that was truly inspiring…..

Then there was the time when Russia invaded Georgia and it took Obama 4 days with over 300 experts to come up with 5 different plans before he finally agreed with McCain…. Who had it right on day one.

Now we have his big economic proposals…. Wow… that’s impressive…. It actually isn’t even his plan…. It’s Hillary’s plan that Obama trashed as being stupid about 3 maybe 4 months ago.

Yes, truly this man is a genius!!!

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Has anybody ever won a Presidential debate? A debate where one candidate demolishes the other and takes a clear lead in the polls? Please note that winning is not the same as your opponent losing.

1960: Nixon mops his brow, looks pale because he refuses makeup. Nixon, all by himself, loses.

1976: Carter is falling in the polls. President Ford asserts that the Soviets are not actually occupying Eastern Europe. The moderator, dumbfounded by Ford's answer, allows Ford a chance to clarify. He doesn't. Carter's slide stops because Ford throws the debate.

2007/8: Obama tells Hillary she is 'nice enough', almost blows the primaries right there.

McCain cannot win this debate. Obama can lose it, but McCain cannot win. And the odds of Obama doing anything besides appearing calm and collected while regurgitating the positions of his campaign are about nil.

Posted by: caribis | October 15, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Beefeater1:

I believe you meant more stupid... as opposed to stupider.

You're welcome by the way!!!

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Here's the real problem: the moderator is or appears to be as old as McCain, whom he 'has known for 30 years.' And he was so happy to see the wonderful change in his friend when Palin was announced as McCain's running mate. I would appreciate a link to Bob Schieffer in order to ask about his very if-y POV and how it will impact his questions and/or follow-ups.

Posted by: madncal | October 15, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

I love Kdog1. A true master of the art of stupidity. Look how the "K" pretends he's thinking for a second in this gem of a sentence

"Maybe these people do reflect his ideaology and he knows America would never accept him as such.... hmmmmmmm ...... makes you wonder!!!"

with the "h" and then all the "m's"
we are not worthy. An idiot like you is a rare and wonderful thing. Please write more

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse


It does appear Obama will win.

A man who:

1. will be in charge of the FBI, CIA, and every other agency of this kind even though he could not get a job at any of them as a desk jockey with his history

2. will be in charge of a huge economy even though he has no experience of any kind in this area and has shown no leadership or solid ideas on how to fix it... just more of "I'm gonna fix"... "I have a plan"... really.... ever gonna share it???

3. will be in charge of the greatest military in the world even though he voted to stop funding to keep our troops safe and has made statements resembling terrorists claiming our troops to be worse then the real terrorists…. He also has stated he’ll stop funding for future weapons platforms and plans on destroying our nuclear weapons… in this world??? Are you freakin nuts???

4. will be in charge of the tax structure in America and claims he'll lower taxes... even though his record has been consistent... he has voted to raise taxes 100% of the time and has yet to cast one vote to lower any....

5. will be in charge of our nation’s energy policies… even though he is against any viable drilling for oil and/or natural gas, clean coal, nuclear electricity, more dams, tide, basically everything we actually know works and seems to only favor solar… which is still very underdeveloped…. And if anyone truly believes we’ll be off oil in ten years you’re absolutely brain dead. Even if the tech can be developed and perfected in 10 years you still will have years before it is affordable for the masses.

6. claims he’s going to change the way Washington works even though he has asked for more pork barrel funding in his first 3 years than any other senator in history….. was against fixing the problems with Fannie and Freddie and in a list of the people with the most kickbacks from Fannie and Freddie during the past 20 years Obama was rated @ #2…. In a whopping less than four year senate career…. How is someone who is the problem ever going to fix the problem???

The village is on fire and we're going to elect a fire breathing dragon to put it out..... PRICELESS!!!!

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

How fun!!! I see the small minded marxist socialistic Obama trolls are on today!!!

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Sense, you can't be serious. When obama is in office the stock market will begin to recover because the rest of the world will say we finally made a choice that will work - they are afraid if McSame/mcBush gets into office. As for how long it takes to clean up this mess.... oh years... whoever is in office... but at least Obama brings real change.

Posted by: bowecy | October 15, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Regardless who wins, the number of people who vote for McSame should give us a good idea of how many white supremest racist gun-mongering idiots we have in the USA.

Posted by: maphound | October 15, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

I don't know who will win tonight, but I do know who will lose. The American People. We lose at every presidential debate because only two people are representing the ballot of at least 5 presidential candidates. It is an embarassment to democracy and people should refuse to accept this.

VoteNader.org

Posted by: nicholeschulz | October 15, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

"I wonder how important you will be to the Obama camp if you're just a resident in a small town, or a small population state, or if you attend or have graduated from a small state college"


I wonder how important you will be to the McCain camp, if you own less than seven houses, or less than 13 cars, or haven't served in the military, or don't attend an evangelical church.

Posted by: bsimon1 | October 15, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Kdog1 you did it again, this is even stupider. You are the greatest. Don't stop KDOG! KDOG! KDOG! I love you!

"SMALL, SMALL, SMALL

Did you notice how the Obama camp made fun of a mayor of a small town, the gov. of a small polpulation state, and the graduate of a small state college...

I wonder how important you will be to the Obama camp if you're just a resident in a small town, or a small population state, or if you attend or have graduated from a small state college."

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Agonistic Engineer,
ACORN responsible?
Take that up with the 13 states and FBI that are investigating ACORN as well as the GUILTY pleas from workers.
Where have you been? Obama also was the lawyer for this group, taught this group how to "register voters" and he and his gave then a contribution of $800,000!
Posted by: Texan2007 | October 15, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse
------------

Barack Obama Never Organized with ACORN

Discredited Republican voter-suppression guru Ken Blackwell is attacking Barack Obama with naked lies about his supposed connection to ACORN.

• Fact: Barack was never an ACORN community organizer.
• Fact: ACORN never hired Obama as a trainer, organizer, or any type of employee.
• Fact: ACORN was not part of Project Vote, the successful voter registration drive Barack ran in 1992.

In his capacity as an attorney, Barack represented ACORN in a successful lawsuit alongside the U.S. Department of Justice against the state of Illinois to force state compliance with a federal voting access law. For his work helping enforce the law, called “Motor Voter,” Barack received the IVI-IPO Legal Eagle Award in 1995.

Ken Blackwell is best known today for disenfranchising Democratic voters in his dual role as Ohio Secretary of State and chair of George Bush’s Ohio campaign in 2004. To see him shed crocodile tears for the integrity of the vote while making accusations about Barack and ACORN with absolutely no basis in fact is disturbing.

Posted by: popasmoke | October 15, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

OBAMA IS THE CANDIDATE OF CHANGE.

What does that exactly mean anyway???? The word change by its very nature is ambigious.... it means nothing.... you can be driving down the road and make a slight change in your steering and drive off a 300 foot cliff. Why do you think a lawyer (person who makes a lving twisting words)chose the word change to run on???

Obama has ducked question after question about what he wants to do with the country. The past 3 weeks he has answered questions about what he would do by stating what he would not do... why??? Why is he so scared of letting people know who he is?? Why did he have to "remake" his image???? Why did Mchelle have to remake hers??

Wy is it that Obama has tried to distance himself from so many people that have been connected to him for years... many, many years????

ACORN - Rev. Jackson - Rev. Wright - Ayers - Farakahn... just to name a few.

Maybe these people do reflect his ideaology and he knows America would never accept him as such.... hmmmmmmm ...... makes you wonder!!!

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

"PRESIDENTS DON'T CREATE NEW JOBS...CEO's DO."


BS. CEO's run companies into the ground by cutting R&D, employment/benefits and exporting jobs to raise their bottom lines. Furthermore, they earn ridiculous amounts of money whether their companies succeed or fail and, to add insult to injury, have to be bought out to get them to leave.

New jobs come from a DEMAND for goods and/or services. Companies large and small will find ways to supply any lucrative demand. Supply side economics fail because no amount of advantage can overcome a lack of demand. DEMAND has to be the driving force of any market...

Posted by: AgnosticEngineer | October 15, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Unless McCain makes a big move, a "Last Stand" headline doesn't really play well. He needs to make this third debate his New Hampshire primary.

But I think you left one thing out, Chris: Bob Schieffer has promised to not pull punches and force the candidates back onto the question if they attempt to run around it with a stump speech answer or Sarah Palin dodgyness. Advantage: The Audience.

-Chris L.

Posted by: MScholarC04 | October 15, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

ACORN = Registration Fraud... As a Floridian; 2000 was VOTER Fraud

Posted by: utznpt | October 15, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

In response to the following post:

SMALL, SMALL, SMALL

Did you notice how the Obama camp made fun of a mayor of a small town, the gov. of a small polpulation state, and the graduate of a small state college...

I wonder how important you will be to the Obama camp if you're just a resident in a small town, or a small population state, or if you attend or have graduated from a small state college.

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse"

*********************

Nobody made fun of her because she's from a small town. They made fun of her because she is an idiot (like you) and thought she could use her small town background to her advantage.

Posted by: abigsam | October 15, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

dhc... I was one of those people.
I was leaning towards McCain until he picked Palin... she is unqualified,the list of negative adjectives is just too long to go on..... she is untrustworthy...and to hold the 2nd highest office in the world is unthinkable.
Once I made that decision that McCain/Palin was not a choice for me, I began to see McCain in desperation and how low he will sink to start measuring curtains in the white house.

Posted by: bowecy | October 15, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone seriously take a step back and think what’s causing the current economic crisis? I strongly believed it has to do with the fact that Obama may win the presidency and investors don't want to take a risk on his watch. Personally I believe Obama is hiding something from the American people which will be reveal should he become president of the United State. I see the next 4 years being long and hard for allot Americans. Obama will not change anything for the next two years. So I am not sure what changes (other than him making history as the first black to be president of the US) people who support him are looking forward to. I see more job loss, more hard time for the middle class, more corruption in political offices, and a very weak economy. I also see the US hitting rock bottom within a year. All of this because we the American people want to make history and elect a very popular back person , who don’t have experience, weak on foreign policy and weaker on domestic issues to rule us. Good luck to us all.

Posted by: MrSense | October 15, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how important you will be to the Obama camp if you're just a resident in a small town, or a small population state, or if you attend or have graduated from a small state college.

Posted by: Kdog1 |
*********************
Well, based on the polls, those small-town folks, small population states, and small state college folks see eye to eye with Obama. The only small thing here is how little you have to cling to in order to make the case for McCain - btw, capital gains tax cut? How is that going to help small town America?

Posted by: LABC | October 15, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

The stupidity of the statement below can not be overlooked. Everyone gather around and read it again. Kdog1 you are the best, a vey billant moron. How did you come up with this? A true artist. Write something else please!

"Interesting that Obama was to take from the rich to give to the poor... financially in need....

But at the same time he is against protecting the preborn babies.... their very life in need"

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

The McCain campaign has placed Sarah Palin off limits to the press.
All the more reason to put the pressure on McCain HIMSELF to address the issue of why his running mate continues to lie through her teeth about the Troopergate affair.

Why won't anyone from the media put it to him?

Posted by: boomerconsumer | October 15, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

voter fraud.... okay... another excuse for the republicans to point to because they can not comprehend that the average american wants change - can not continue the path we have been on for the last 8 years.... Do they forget McCains close ties with ACORN? Do they forget their own parties actions.... They stole the election from Al Gore in Florida where Bush's brother was governor at the time....

Posted by: bowecy | October 15, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Palin is McCain's greatest liability. She is too divisive. Many people I have spoken to could have voted for McCain but will not do it now due to Palin's problems.

No matter what he does on special plans on the important issues he can not overcome the handicap caused by running mate Palin.

Posted by: dhcobra | October 15, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Hello, The Socialist States of America. The Obama supporters might get what they wish: a socialist union.

Posted by: love234america
*****************************
Hello, stupid, have you been reading the paper between washing your flag pins? Do you see what the governments have to do to save these banks - to try to put the breaks on the endless drop that is leading us to a recession? Do you even know what you are talking about? Your GOP screwed up things royally. The guy you flag-waving 'tards shoved down our throats because the most important thing is being able to have a beer with your leaders is the equivalent of kryptonite on the market - every time he talks, the market barfs. So you will excuse me if your chest-thumping faux patriotic screed doesn't make me run to McLame and Palin. And if Obama focusing on hard working middle and lower class citizens who have borne the weight of this trainwreck is socialism in your view - then you can walk away - we promise not to write or beg you to come back.

Posted by: LABC | October 15, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

"The Democratic party ignored the fact that Sen.Clinton & Obama were equal in popular votes @ 17 million in the Democratic primaries but instead made a conscious decision to exploit the race card and secure absolute power for themselves."

Uh, the popular vote is only Clinton's in one of several ways of reading it, and the primaries go by delegates, which Obama won.

"Now were all supposed to look the other way while ACORN stuffs the ballot box and imposes their dictator in the name of harmony and acceptance?"

Actually, those volunteers were just ripping off ACORN by making money off fake registration.

"I have searched my heart for months to consider the consequences of compromise.
After careful consideration,I will not recognize Obama as legitimate nor will I submit to this coup d'etat .
I make the above statements as an American first and not as a partisan in the name of the 85,000 Americans who died fighting Communism. No American with honor will accept a Communist leader."

You really are an idiot, aren't you?

Posted by: scurley1 | October 15, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

as long as we're going off-thread here, I'd like to put forth the idea that Hillary Clinton kick Harry Reid in the balls and take over as Senate Majority leader - that is, if she can find any balls to kick.

Posted by: khote14 | October 15, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

SMALL, SMALL, SMALL

Did you notice how the Obama camp made fun of a mayor of a small town, the gov. of a small polpulation state, and the graduate of a small state college...

I wonder how important you will be to the Obama camp if you're just a resident in a small town, or a small population state, or if you attend or have graduated from a small state college.

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Texan2007:

I know your angry. That's understandable. Your candidate AND your entire party is going down in flames. I can just imagine how taumatic that must be.

That said, Democrats stand for tolerance and honor our fellow Americans' hatefulness as their "right." So I honor your right to continue hating everyone to the left of Hitler. But you must realize that you are on a sinking ship. And as a Democrat I'll gladly throw you a lifeline.

Posted by: Godhimself1 | October 15, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

my name is Texan2007 I love Hillary Clinton I love all the Clintons I wish they were from Texas. It is so unfair how the colored kid stole the nomination from that nice lady, I just love her. The Clintons are good people and I have always supported them. They should come to Dallas like that Irish fellah. I'm a really dopey cowboy from the Lone Brain State.

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

This debate is not important to me. I've made my decision. We have been watching and listening to debates for the last year and a half. Obama is the candidate for change. I am tired of repbulicans sounding off their lies on these comment sites just as I am tired of hearing McCain. He took this campaign down the smearing and hate trail and I can't admire that. I only wanted to hear the issues... Obama addresses the issues. More and more I feel the need to defend our candidate because even when the truth is in plain sight the republicans continue with the the same ole' tired rhetoric. I am old enough to remember the savings and loan scandle... McCain... I am old enough to remember Iran-Contra - McCain...
But here's the clincher "my friends" McCain doesn't see the big picture... never did.. that's why he got himself in so many messes... But when he picked Palin..that was the straw that broke the camels back.... to deny ethics violations when it is cited on every newspaper in the country is just unbelievable. McCain is untrustworth... Palin is a joke.

Posted by: bowecy | October 15, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

I don't know who ACORN is and why any brief association with them is bad but, John McSame was the keynote speaker at an ACORN conference a couple of years ago.


Posted by: maphound | October 15, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Interesting that Obama was to take from the rich to give to the poor... financially in need....

But at the same time he is against protecting the preborn babies.... their very life in need

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 15, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

I don't think the issue is about negativity in as much as it is honesty. Obama keeps talking about how the Iraq war was wrong and he was against it, but won't speak of the genocide that was going on. But if genocide was occurring in Africa, he be all for it...or a predominately Muslim country. Obama has ties to Muslims. His Father was a Muslim…he campaigned in Kenya for a Muslim candidate, and after that candidate lost his supporters killed lots of Christians. He attended a Muslim school…and vigorously study the Koran…and has stated that he would defend the Muslim faith in a time of crisis. He was taught African views during his integration into religion, such as Jesus was really a black man, by his pastor, not to mention his other radical ties. He himself, along with his wife, are radicals trying to improve their standing in order to impose the beliefs and visions upon Americans and our ideals. This election is about the American belief in GOD and Christianity. GOD would not condone abortion nor would he condone gays or gay marriage. People should vote their faith. That way they'd have faith in their leader. Israel should be our most important allies. Obama’s judgement is very clear what his true thoughts and likes are with the convictions he has and his associations that he has developed. VOTE your faith…VOTE REPUBLICAN…for GOD’s sake!!!!

Posted by: EmeraldHaskell | October 15, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

I am amazed that anyone is taking McCain seriously at this point. Even if he used to be a decent person, this campaign has changed him. Now he is just a spiritually ugly, doddering old man who is flailing around and stamping his foot!

And Palin? If the Democrats fielded somebody this ridiculous (and potentially dangerous, unfortunately) they would have been crucified by the Republicans, and rightly so.

Who would have thought that GWBush would end up looking positively presidential, really intelligent? It took McCain's unique and stupid mean-spiritedness to bring that off.

Posted by: jtread66 | October 15, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Rtfanning said:
"After careful consideration,I will not recognize Obama as legitimate nor will I submit to this coup d'etat.

I make the above statements as an American first and not as a partisan in the name of the 85,000 Americans who died fighting Communism. No American with honor will accept a Communist leader."

Wow, do you even listen to the fringe theorist tripe you say or type? A communist coup d'etat? You know, that is seriously one of the most hysterical things I've heard all year.

Please.

Posted by: hijikatatoshizo | October 15, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

If Americans focus on the economy, they'll agree we need to create new jobs. PRESIDENTS DON'T CREATE NEW JOBS...CEO's DO. The problem is, the vast majority of CEO's do Not approve of Obama's plans. Obama's plan is nothing but a "handout",it increases corporate taxes and capital gains taxes, which doesn't help CEO's create new jobs., it only cuts jobs. I'm Democrat but I'm not voting for Obama., he'll only dig us a deeper hole.

Posted by: ohioan | October 15, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

-------------------------
REALLY? How do you arrive at these assertions? Please by all means outine Obama tax proposals. LOVE LOVE to hear all about it.

McCain Versus Obama on Taxes

If you make 38-66K a year:
Obama: -$1,042 (tax decrease)
McCain: -$319 (Decrease)

If you make 66-112K a year:
Obama: -$1,290 (decrease)
McCain: -$1,009 (decrease)

If you make 227-603K a year:
Obama: +12.00 (Yes that’s a twelve dollar increase)
McCain: -$7,871 (decrease)

If you make 803K a year or higher:
Obama: +115,974 (increase)
McCain: -45,361 (decrease yes that DECREASE)

OH AND PLEASE spare me your socialism "handout" wealth redistribution BS.

Supply-side economics isnt wealth distribution?

richest 1% of adults alone owned 40% of global assets in the year 2000, and that the richest 10% of adults accounted for 85% of the world total. The bottom half of the world adult population owned barely 1% of global wealth.

Please by all means SOURCE your assertions....oh wait i forgot, its only your paranoid opinion masquerading as fact.

Posted by: feastorafamine | October 15, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

texan2007....I don't know if he was a C student in high school.....but he graduated magna cum laude with his JD from Harvard Law.

Posted by: davevause | October 15, 2008 1:52 PM | Report abuse

If Obama looses, Hillary will NEVER be president

She will get alot of blame.

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 15, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

91% of respondents stated that the debates so far have not changed their minds re: their vote. So let's get tonight out of the way and put McCain/Palin out of their misery. The GOP is already having quiet sidebar leadership meetings about who will takeover the party leadership after the wreck is completed on November 4th. As for me, I'll just be thrilled to see those far right evangelical extremists pushed back into their church closets where they belong! Adios amigos, see you in a couple of years.

Posted by: Bob43 | October 15, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

McCain can still loose the debate and win the election

It has nothing to do with McCain. It has to do with the voter fraud. Not all the problems from the last two elections have been fixed. Even worse, the Republicans, who are so adept at manipulating the vote, have plans for entirely new ways of vote stealing.

Posted by: thenotoriousflavio | October 15, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton should have been the nominee. Obama STOLE the election from her. And you want to give her a consellation prize?
HOW KIND!

Posted by: Texan2007
***************************
Oh, dear - have you someone to come pick up the pieces of the dead horse you keep beating?
Seriously? Yeah, he stole it - by winning...

Posted by: LABC | October 15, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

What does it matter what the American public thinks about the winner of the presidential debates? The media will tell us who won; we don't have to think! The media is thinking for the American people and telling us what we should believe. At the present time, that's the American way. The press and TV are both controlled by liberals who slant the news to their beliefs. The election is a joke; money is buying the white house with the help of the media, so don't even ask what we the public thinks; it no longer matter in America. Hello, The Socialist States of America. The Obama supporters might get what they wish: a socialist union.

Posted by: love234america | October 15, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"Agonistic Engineer,
ACORN responsible?
Take that up with the 13 states and FBI that are investigating ACORN as well as the GUILTY pleas from workers.
Where have you been? Obama also was the lawyer for this group, taught this group how to "register voters" and he and his gave then a contribution of $800,000!"


Genius,

Notice the GUILTY PLEAS FROM WORKERS. They have found that the fraudulent registrations were by lazy workers (many parolees) who were shirking their responsibilities and fudging registrations to meet quotas. ACORN nor Barack Obama support this behavior. The quotas were established to get REAL VOTERS REGISTERED. A few criminals have tarnished the organization.

By your argument, we should be able to prosecute the Bush administration for the actions of "Scooter" Libby...

Posted by: AgnosticEngineer | October 15, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Texan2007 writes
"Take that up with the 13 states and FBI that are investigating ACORN as well as the GUILTY pleas from workers."

If ACORN workers are pleading guilty to submitting false voter registrations, how is Senator Obama complicit to their actions?

When Senator Obama was ACORN's lawyer, he was working with the US Department of Justice to ensure that the IL motor-voter law was properly implemented. I fail to see how this charge is anything other than a failed attempt to distract from the utterly pitiful campaign of Senator McCain.

Posted by: bsimon1 | October 15, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

If Americans focus on the economy, they'll agree we need to create new jobs. PRESIDENTS DON'T CREATE NEW JOBS...CEO's DO. The problem is, the vast majority of CEO's do Not approve of Obama's plans. Obama's plan is nothing but a "handout",it increases corporate taxes and capital gains taxes, which doesn't help CEO's create new jobs., it only cuts jobs. I'm Democrat but I'm not voting for Obama., he'll only dig us a deeper hole.

Posted by: ohioan | October 15, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Godhimself1,
Sniffing Glue? That sounds like Obama...
oops
he likes pot and cocaine.
But he grew out of that and his C average in High School and College and went(got into?)Harvard.

Posted by: Texan2007 | October 15, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

rtfanning - Did you just cut and paste your post again? Weak...

Posted by: utznpt | October 15, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

mark_in_austin writes
"Point is that Ayers is a trap for McC, too - correct?"

I would not be surprised if the Annenberg connection between McCain & Ayers is a large part of the Obama rebuttal to the expected McCain attack on Ayers.

Posted by: bsimon1 | October 15, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

To date, Barack Obama has spent more time with John McCain than Bill Ayers. Obama has not turned into terrorist nor a Republican. I think we are safe...

Posted by: AKwatchman | October 15, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

U R G E N T !!! If I were Senator Barak Obama, I would offer the post of SECRETARY OF STATE to Hillary Clinton, - today, now, if possible during the debate.- Is there not a possibility to convey this suggestion to Senator Obama? Erico Stern, Montevideo, Uruguay-

Posted by: truderic | October 15, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton should have been the nominee. Obama STOLE the election from her. And you want to give her a consellation prize?
HOW KIND!

Posted by: Texan2007 | October 15, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

rtfanning
I hope you know sniffing glue is bad for you. But you probably don't because Knuckleheads like you are certainly not the smartest of the bunch. So keep on sniffing and eating your possum pie.

Posted by: Godhimself1 | October 15, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

John Dillinger---violent gangster.


John Ehrlichman and John Mitchell---corrupt convicted cronies in the Nixon Watergate scandal.


John Boy Walton---stole moonshine from the Baldwin Sisters' still.


John Hinckley---would-be assassin.


John Walker Lindh---American Taliban.


John---one who frequents prostitutes.


John---a toilet.


John McCain---Republican nominee for...president?


As John McCain runs for the highest office in the land, he still refuses to come clean and explain his association with this Who's Who of criminals, curs and commodes.


Who is the real John McCain? What kind of John is he really? And why won’t he tell us the truth?


Can we really trust..."John" McCain?


Shocking, isn't it? I hope Barack Obama brings this up at tonight's debate.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJThPjvscFs
.

Posted by: DrainYou | October 15, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Agonistic Engineer,
ACORN responsible?
Take that up with the 13 states and FBI that are investigating ACORN as well as the GUILTY pleas from workers.
Where have you been? Obama also was the lawyer for this group, taught this group how to "register voters" and he and his gave then a contribution of $800,000!

Posted by: Texan2007 | October 15, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

U R G E N T !!!! If I were Senator Barak Obama, I would offer the post of SECRETARY OF STATE to Hillary Clinton, - today, now, if possible during the debate.- Is there not a possibility to convey this suggestion to Senator Obama?
Erico Stern (Montevideo, Uruguay)

Posted by: truderic | October 15, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

The Democratic party put up a candidate that has dedicated his entire adult life to polarization, creating a sense of grievance , envy and resentment in order to mobilize political action to get more taxpayer money, which has ultimately resulted in the destruction of Americas banking system.
The Democratic party has carefully and deliberately chosen the path of class warfare in order to secure absolute power.
The Democratic party ignored the fact that Sen.Clinton & Obama were equal in popular votes @ 17 million in the Democratic primaries but instead made a conscious decision to exploit the race card and secure absolute power for themselves.

Now were all supposed to look the other way while ACORN stuffs the ballot box and imposes their dictator in the name of harmony and acceptance?

I have searched my heart for months to consider the consequences of compromise.
After careful consideration,I will not recognize Obama as legitimate nor will I submit to this coup d'etat .
I make the above statements as an American first and not as a partisan in the name of the 85,000 Americans who died fighting Communism. No American with honor will accept a Communist leader.

Posted by: rtfanning | October 15, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

beefeater wrote: "this is fun"

The thought of Sarah Palin a heart beat away from the presidency makes it scary, not fun.

Also, as an one-time admirer of John McCain I find it sad to see him stoop so low. If McCain didn't pick Palin and begin his cynical wooing of the so called "conservative Christians" the numbers would look different today. Yes, Bush won twice based on their support but the times have changed. Unfortunately, McCain is now locked into a position that means more of what the Bushies have wrought since 2000.

Posted by: probashi | October 15, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Last night I watched a PBS special on the candidates. As it traced the political careers of each, I was left with the distinct impression that John McCain is willing to say or do anything to advance his climb to the white house. From his relationship with George Bush to business regulation. What he says today depends on where he wants to go. His campaign has been a snapshot of the "real McCain". On the other hand, the other fellow, affectionately referred to as "that one" is a smart and deliberate craftsman who has the discipline to follow a plan through while standing on principle. Hopefully, this debate will make it clear that we don't need a president that we may not recognize tomorrow. Straight talk without consistency is just another form of bait and switch.

Posted by: ljking2 | October 15, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Maybe McCain can talk about issues and policy.

There's a first time for everything.

Hey, wanna see what a REAL maverick looks like?

Keith Olbermann Skewers John McCain:

http://scootmandubious.blogspot.com/2008/10/keith-olbermann-blasts-john-mccain.html

Posted by: scootmandubious | October 15, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

"That's intersting KoZ. Tell me, how has ACORN violated any law, or even any ethical priciples? Please respond if you actually have some information about ACORN and not just some innuendo about them being a coomunist-sympathizing organization."


They try to blame ACORN for the actions of a few of their volunteers. Neglecting the fact that ACORN uses (amongst others) parolees, in attempt to reintegrate them into society. This is a noble cause, but obviously is susceptible to fraudulent submissions. Much like how welfare is blamed for supporting those who illegally abuse it. Neither condones the illegal actions of others and both cooperate in trying to stop them...

Posted by: AgnosticEngineer | October 15, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Where The Fix cites advantages for McCain, there are also potential pitfalls. Conclusion: this is a high stakes event, where even if McCain is able to capitalize on those potential areas of advantage, he could still come out without establishing enough momentum to overcome Obama's lead.

The crux of the problem McCain faces is that there doesn't seem to be much that he can do to change the dynamics. He is relying on externalities to change, in order to create an opening for himself. He needs an Obama stumble. Or an event that takes people's minds off the economic crisis. In short, McCain's situation is like that of a team who's finished playing their regular season games, and is waiting for another team to lose so he can get into the playoffs.

Posted by: bsimon1 | October 15, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Who is this USA3 and why are you such an idiot!!?? You want this country run by a man who can't seem to pull a good idea or decision out of his pocket to save his own life! To have more of the same mess that we are currently dealing with at this time...for the next 4 years, or deal with the possibility of Deer in the Headlights Barbie taken his place if God forbid the man should pass away. See that's why this country is in the shape it's in because of dopes like USA3 and the ones who can't, or won't see the retarded acts and comments of an old man and dumb sidekick trying to run this country further in the ground and make the rich richer and poor even poorer. Please people get some common sense and look at the facts - get over your fears, and learned ignorant behaviors to let the RIGHT person help get our country back on it's feet. We all deserve a chance to survive out here - EVERYONE - even the dummies!!!!

Posted by: universaltech01 | October 15, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

MY fellow Republicans, we should abandon the party and start a new one; The Bull-Moose party - but I'm afraid I'd be hunted by a certain someone...

Posted by: utznpt | October 15, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

I don't believe you give huge tax breaks to big corps and the rich and hope it will "trickle down". It doesn't trickle down. It never has and never will. We have seen an ever widening gap between the wealthy and impoverished and lower middle class because of Reagan's mythical "trickle down" theory .I don't trust the rich and big corps to help the less fortunate. They are greedy and only look out for their own interests. Money does that to people. I don't believe in getting rich at the expense of other people's sweat and toil. There needs to be social programs to help with a hand up but not a handout. There are many,many people out there through no fault of their own, cannot take care of themselves.

Posted by: Godhimself1 | October 15, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

shouldn't it be No-Obama? NObama makes no sence. It just isn't that clever.

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Debate preview...

McCain: You have to tell the truth to the American people about Bill Ayers

Obama: I'll do that, if you'll tell the truth to the American people about you and Charles Keating.

McCain: Fine... Let's do it.

McCain: He gave me $110K for my campaign, I vacationed at his house in the Bahama's with my family. I then wrote 3 letters to the White House and regulators to delay action against his S&L. Your turn...

Obama: I served on the Annenburg board with him and worked on a grant project for fixing the broken Chicago education system for which Ayers got an award. He also held a coffee to kick off my 1995 campaign. I heard he bombed the Pentagon and I reputiated his actions.

McCain: Are you now a terrorist?

Obama: Did you raid a S&L

McCain: Yo mama.

Obama: You wife looks like a scarey pale white stick

McCain: You wife is taller than you. I'm scared of her.

It devovles in to a fist fight and the rating go through the roof.

Meanwhile, the stock market is down a least another 300 points today and we continue to nationalize banks.

Posted by: DougH1 | October 15, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

BJ, just because he's a loon doesn't mean his case isn't warranted.

why can't the messiah simply produce the evidence and dismiss all the suits. what is he hiding (this time)?

who discovered the edwards love child? sometimes the source is irrelevant.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Obama never names specific people who he thinks are the cause of a problem. He won't even bring himself to blame Republicans. If Obama named anybody, the cat would be out of the bag. It would at last be plain that his politics of unity, his politics of "addition not subtraction," is simply another way of recasting the old "politics of us versus them" that he says he disdains.

Posted by: leapin | October 15, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

How many cans of spinach will McCain have to do tonight to win .... anything?

This is truly the last time we will see these two candidates together. It will be boring in the extreme unless McCain does play the Ayers card.

I'll wait for the youtube video.

Posted by: khote14 | October 15, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

I don't think viewership will be that high. Most people have made up their mind and may watch some of it. Not sure what McCain can do as he's displayed more split personalities than Sybil.... The debate is mainly media fodder now.

Posted by: RickJ | October 15, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

"Your new tax plan is going tax me more, isn't it?

OBAMA: It's not that I want to punish your success; I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you that they've got a chance to success, too. I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
Karl Marx & Lenin in one: That is Obama
Do America needs Obama's economic philosophy?

Posted by: madayilnair | October 15, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

To date, Barack Obama has spent far more time with John McCain than with Bill Ayers, and all that contact hasn't turned Barack mavericky.

Posted by: AKwatchman | October 15, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

"After careful consideration,I will not recognize Obama as legitimate nor will I submit to this coup d'etat ."

Well, it didn't work for the millions of us who felt that way about Bush... but feel free to go right ahead

Posted by: lightgrw | October 15, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Mcfud as in Elmer just can't get that silly rabbit!

Posted by: johnathanporterfield | October 15, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Live Blog of tonight's debate can be found here: http://www.leehernly.com/blog/?p=327

Posted by: leeh11281 | October 15, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

"The issue is what Ayers/B.O. did or did not do in their association as adults."

We don't need the "did not do" part. Lets just pretend they did a lot of bad stuff together. We really got to get it out there. They raped preschool children togethe with a bunch of LIBS watching! C'mon help me make up some stuff.

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

"the idea of class warfare is a moot point,
if obama taxes corporations the cost gets
passed on to consumers'
how stupid are you people????

just like the windfall tax on oil companies?
a company raises prices to offset costs.

oh, yes, and they lay off people and cut
back on expenditures.

obama will not raise the poor,
he will sink the middle class!

NOBAMA08"


Funny that we had recently reached two records simultaneously. Most wealth and most uneven distribution of wealth. Results of the Republican pushed supply side economics, the (doesn't) "trickle-down" effect. Republicans have run the White House and Congress for most of the past two decades.

How much has the average person's income risen during this time? Now, how much has income risen for those in the highest bracket? It is the rich who would like to destroy the middle class. They are the board members that insist on cutting salaries/benefits, laying off workers, and moving companies over seas. Their only concern is their own stock values. The cheaper they can get labor, the better. Slavery would be best, but the damn liberals have made that all but impossible...

Posted by: AgnosticEngineer | October 15, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse


While it is clear there are still bastions of hate in this country (mainly on the political right), we should not lose sight of one fact: We are on the precipice of electing an African-American to the highest office in the land. This speaks volumes of how far we have come as a nation. It should give us hope for the future. This a great time in our history.

While the lunatic fringe gets the press coverage, let's remember that it is the moderates on both sides and the independents that represent the true will of the people. With all our warts, we are still the greatest nation on earth.

Posted by: Godhimself1 | October 15, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

good golly, an awful lot of angry republicans out there. you should be the happiest campers in all of samoa: bush is a two-termer who had congress in the bag through 2006; he's signed more executive orders and signing statements than any other president, ever--and this means, more or less, that he's found a way to rule by decree when he couldn't get his way otherwise--; you got your gun off in 2003, *and* our soldiers have spent the last 5 years fending off the millions of tons of flowers being strewn at their feet by happy iraqis, all paid for by the iraqis, too; pesky regulations reining in our intrepid investment industries have all been rolled back, and we've been free to use derivatives of derivatives of derivatives, even if we haven't been sure how they work or have neglected to notice that they had highly correlated risk.

everything has gone your way: it's all roses. look on the bright side: obama could easily lose, mccain will be around to call his wife a c*** for your amusement, and palin, that weird, frankensteinian amalgalm of betty boop and adolph hitler, will vocabulate her way through countless interviews, charming the pants off of us with fake, gooey smiles and utterly obvious surreptitious winking.

it's the best of all possible worlds.

Posted by: aagnot | October 15, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

I personally think Obama. However, I do expect an interesting show of rebuttals, again. I am definitely in Obama's corner, and I have reason to believe that he will focus on the issues in ways I deem important, moreso than McCain. Still, I do look forward to the probability that McCain will be aggressive in his attempts, through this debate, to really try to push his policy stances through. I am interested in getting that kind of effort from McCain, even if I oppose his stances.

Good luck to both candidates.

Posted by: Obama2008 | October 15, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

McQuack needs to return the his scum pond and take Sarah with him.

Posted by: johnathanporterfield | October 15, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Zouk - against my better judgment I looked into the wing-nut suing the WA Sec of State. As suspected, it's a wannabe Unabomber character, living in a cabin, crafting lawsuits.

Here's his website - http://peoplespassions.org/peoplesvoice/peoplesvoice.html

Posted by: bondjedi | October 15, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Beefeater1:

Hilarious! I think pulled a muscle laughing so hard! Great post!

Posted by: Godhimself1 | October 15, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

went to visit my rightwingdad this morning, he had on Fox news as usual.
All they're talking about is ACORN and Ayers, nothing else. They aren't even talking about McCain anymore, just acorn and ayers.

You can see the results here, you can see the Foxsters posting here, like they were wearing a bag of fermenting dog crap around there neck you can determine exactly which posters are foxsters.

They have nothing left all. And it sounds like Obama is daring McCain to mention Ayers, it sounds like a trap to me, and you can bet the old fool is going to walk right into it.

What a world. I'm already tired of this crap, when will the election be over with, when can we go back to our real lives and not have to pretend we care what the foxtsers think?

Posted by: khote14 | October 15, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Libs – Have some intellectual integrity. The issue isn’t what Ayers did when B.O. was 8 years old. The issue is what Ayers/B.O. did or did not do in their association as adults. Another lib point I heard on the radio “What’s wrong with B.O. going to church?” Again to blow off the real issue of B.O.’s Wright association and the philosophy behind that.

Posted by: leapin | October 15, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

McCain can win this debate - but only if he hires Bill Clinton as a stand in. This is a challenge for great communications. ...........
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/10/15/can-mccain-win-the-debate/

Posted by: glclark4750 | October 15, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

I would just like to say to all those who claim Ayers is anti-american or racist, someone who is grooming black kids to hate this country.

If you don't know by now Bill Ayers is White, yes I said, he is white look it up. The Weather underground was made up of rich white kids, who didn't have to fight in the war, because their parent had money. Also, a lot of people protested the war in the 60's and 70's.


Plus, how can Obama and Wright teach hate, when white people having been teaching hate for centuries, inslaving of native americans and blacks they stole from another country. Then the lynching of blacks teach your white kids, blacks were inferior to whites. Now who is teaching hate here. The white man has gone from country to country taking them over, starting wars, and pushing their ways and beliefs on others. And in the same breathe preaching they are christians. You would think in 2008, all races would be able to look at the past, and make a change for the future. America is supposed to be a melting pot, where all people from all walks of life can live prosper and live the american dream. But we still have those who think differently and want to keep everything white only.

Obama has the best of both worlds he is white and he is black. He is able to see the glass from both ends. The Ayers problem happend 40 years ago, this man is a different person now. A Professor at a College and won Man of the Year in Chicago. If the people of Chicago can forgive him, why can't everyone else. Think about some of things you post on these blogs, most of it is misinformation based on racism. I would like to think minorities in this country have come a long way since Martin Luther King, be America still has a long way to go, before color is no longer an issue. A true American and Christian is someone who can live, love and appreciate everyone, no matter their religious background, or the color of their skin.

Posted by: onthereal | October 15, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

this is fun

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

The anger and hate that is being spewed by the right-wing nutjobs sounds like the GOP death rattle. I believe they are finished as a viable party after this election.

Posted by: Godhimself1 | October 15, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

We're almost to the point in this one where Obama gets to play defense and run out the clock.

McCain, however, is looking at a scenario where he's passing every down, going for two, and relying on recovering three onside kicks in a row.

Obama will take his licks from McCain - Ayers, Rezko, Wright, blah blah blah.

Not enough, though. McShame needs to dig deep into the wing-nut, John Birch stuff if he wants to be Prez: Obama is a coke addict, Obama is a Muslim, Obama was born in a foreign country, Obama will authorize slavery reparations, etc.

He might as well. The only think stopping him is a supposed sense of honor, which only he genuinely believes in. Most from both sides of the aisle have caught McShame talking out of both sides of his mouth for years, so why stop now.

Posted by: bondjedi | October 15, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Not going to be a knockout either way. Nor will it be the highest rated - the yawner last time will have turned off many viewers. Furthermore, most people have now made up their minds and it increasingly appears that Obama has the election sown up. So the drama is draining. Obama will win this one on points - just as he did the first two - because he is better at this than McCain is.

Posted by: wmw4 | October 15, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Win baby! Win!.........O' Country!

Posted by: johnathanporterfield | October 15, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

"popasmoke" up my a$$... How can you possibly believe that the Dems are guilty of Socializing the gov't when it has grown to its largest form in both scope and debt under the Repubs? This crisis has happened under their watch and most will hold them accountable...

Posted by: utznpt | October 15, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Obama is going to win -- everyone knows this. McCain will look disingenous either way he goes. If he tries character assassination, then he can't look like the guy that is above petty politics. If he doesn't, then he looks like he's scared.

Either way, Obama is going to win.

OBAMA/BIDEN '08

Posted by: DinahS | October 15, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

shouldn't you be registering cats and horses to vote for THE ONE at your volunteer job at ACORN?

If you don't get enough paw prints they wil fire you and take away your PB&J.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 1:00 PM

That's intersting KoZ. Tell me, how has ACORN violated any law, or even any ethical priciples? Please respond if you actually have some information about ACORN and not just some innuendo about them being a coomunist-sympathizing organization.

Posted by: NMModerate1 | October 15, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

ow it hurts I'm really stupid, I made a lot of bad choices, my party let me down, they were wrong and I was wrong, boo hoo I'm so mad, I was fooled but, I can't admit it, I'm to stupid to, I'm middle class and no one gives an F about me but these really rich people keep pretending that they do, why am I so stupid? it's the media they're not saying the things I want to hear, it can't be true, why is everybody against the guy I chanted "4 more years" for? Why did he have to be even stupider then me? I'll pretend this old pants pisser and the hot broad are a good option, I remember when it was fine to hate black people. Why do I have to be so stupid? well I'm not gonna stop now.

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

rtfanning:

I see you stopped taking your meds again. Don't worry, the tinfoil hat will save you.

Posted by: Godhimself1 | October 15, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

The OBAMA is a commie claim is laughable. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet the two richest capitalists on the planet both support Barack Obama so much for this absurd smear. Game Set Match for Obama tonight due to his having better positions on the economy and also way better advisers including Warren Buffet, Paul Volcker, Robert Reich etc. etc. Mc Cains transparent pander to the elder communities in Florida and his trying to make him out to not support Israel also wont work for him. Put it simply Mc Same is out of ammo and down way to far to make it up in twenty days. OBAMANOS! YES WE WILL BRING THE CHANGE WE NEED NOW!

Posted by: pedraza1 | October 15, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

rtfanning, I have read through many message boards throughout this campaign (and 2004, as well) and your statement has to be among the most fanciful and least informed statement I have ever seen.

It's fine to not like Senator Obama for his policies, but that has to be the most made up nonesense I've seen yet.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

If 9% could be swayed by BHO's connection to Ayers that is a huge advantage for McC and I do not understand how you could write otherwise, Chris.

However, if Ayers becomes an issue, apparently McC supporters Walter and Leonore Annenberg have given Ayers over $50M in research grants over the years. On Oct. 13, McC's campaign bragged about Leonore's endorsement. My source, Andrew Sullivan, may not be unimpeachable so I invite everyone to read

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/republicans-who.html

and do background research [while I work for a living] and report back here before the debate, for my edification.

Point is that Ayers is a trap for McC, too - correct?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | October 15, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

If the media possibly can, (sorry Chris!) they will keep this thing going until the dead horse had been beat to death, beat some more, cremated, and then maybe.... So, of course, McCain will "win" tonight by some tortured logic and tomorrow the race will be "all new again" -- only if McCain loses his mind tonight will he not be deemed "the comeback kid" by most of the punditocracy.

Posted by: coloradobluesky | October 15, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse


The Democratic party put up a candidate who has dedicated his entire adult life to polarization, creating a sense of grievance , envy and resentment in order to mobilize political action to get more taxpayer money, which has ultimately resulted in the destruction of Americas banking system.
The Democratic party has carefully and deliberately chosen the path of class warfare in order to secure absolute power.
The Democratic party ignored the fact that Sen.Clinton & Obama were equal in popular votes @ 17 million in the Democratic primaries but instead made a conscious decision to exploit the race card and secure absolute power for themselves.

Now were all supposed to look the other way while ACORN stuffs the ballot box and imposes their dictator in the name of harmony and acceptance?

I have searched my heart for months to consider the consequences of compromise.
After careful consideration,I will not recognize Obama as legitimate nor will I submit to this coup d'etat .
I make the above statements as an American first and not as a partisan in the name of the 85,000 Americans who died fighting Communism. No American with honor will accept a Communist leader.
Posted by: rtfanning | October 15, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Reply

HOW ARE THEY STUFFING THE BALLOT BOXES? DO YOU HAVE THE SLIGHTEST IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?

Posted by: popasmoke | October 15, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, and edeldoug, whatever the hell THAT means, how's that McCain world view been working over the past 8 years - not too damn well - to address one of your specific comments, as to increased revenue resulting from decreased taxation - first of all, it's counterintuitive, and secondly MOST economists feel that making this statement is a fallacy, that they have not been able to directly correlate the two...Revenues rose when President Clinton increased taxes.

Go take your theories and pound sand.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 15, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

about those ratings and IQ's...

Go Phillies!

Posted by: Seb1 | October 15, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

The Democratic party put up a candidate who has dedicated his entire adult life to polarization, creating a sense of grievance , envy and resentment in order to mobilize political action to get more taxpayer money, which has ultimately resulted in the destruction of Americas banking system.
The Democratic party has carefully and deliberately chosen the path of class warfare in order to secure absolute power.
The Democratic party ignored the fact that Sen.Clinton & Obama were equal in popular votes @ 17 million in the Democratic primaries but instead made a conscious decision to exploit the race card and secure absolute power for themselves.

Now were all supposed to look the other way while ACORN stuffs the ballot box and imposes their dictator in the name of harmony and acceptance?

I have searched my heart for months to consider the consequences of compromise.
After careful consideration,I will not recognize Obama as legitimate nor will I submit to this coup d'etat .
I make the above statements as an American first and not as a partisan in the name of the 85,000 Americans who died fighting Communism. No American with honor will accept a Communist leader.

Posted by: rtfanning | October 15, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Well, I see the level of discourse hasn't changed much since the days of AOL chatrooms.

Posted by: pyramidos | October 15, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

I see dribble has polluted the blog again with her hate speech and ignoRANT posts.

shouldn't you be registering cats and horses to vote for THE ONE at your volunteer job at ACORN?

If you don't get enough paw prints they wil fire you and take away your PB&J.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

this place is awesome, USA3 mixing it up with the Gay stuff get in there bud show them what your thinking. Let your freak flag fly bro.

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

edeldoug you are a fairly dopey person, with not much of a life, right?

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

dribble...
I thought you would learn to swallow,
I'm sure you have plenty of practice
with you Manfriends'

NOBAMA

Posted by: USA3 | October 15, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

I think the Tony Rezko Investigations
should tie up the indonesion wonder
for a few years....
Nancy 'frigid' Pelosi
will facial tick her way
through nonsense speechs
as she leads the country
into rainbows and special interests.
gay marriages and gun laws
and taxes to tax the taxes
to help the poor,
while dodd and pelosi and
reid line their pockets.
ask Mrs. Pelosi's husband
how sweet his consulting deal is?
ask michele obama how big her
raise was, after hubby barack
earmarked 1.2 mil to her hospital
100%....
middle class, get rready to rrumble...
you will be paying for it all.


NOBAMA

Posted by: USA3 | October 15, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

It is interesting to hear the rightie nutjobs saying Obama will run up the deficit even more. How can they say that w/ a straight face when Bush has put us in farther into the red than in any time in our history. They had to add another digit to the deficit clock in NY for God Sakes!

The truth is that the Dems have become the fiscally responsible party in the past couple of decades. Clinton left us w/ a surplus which vanished under Bush. And it was Clinton introduced a "pay as you go system". Obama wants to reinstate this system.

If you the economy and fiscal responsibility are your top concerns then the clear choice is Obama/Biden, hands down.

Posted by: Godhimself1 | October 15, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

USA3 has the IQ of cabbage. No wonder he's a republican.

Posted by: drindl | October 15, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

This election for POTUS really has little if anything to do with the two canidates, four if you want to count VP's.

It's a party thing. Do we want republicans or democrats to be in charge? Which party do we want to control the admistrative branch of our government in the near term.

What's said, promised, not said or not promised in campaign speaches or debates, is of little importance. The power behind the parties will dictate policy post election.

I was once asked, "what is the most important duty of the president." "Get elected" was the answer, as nothing else matters to him if he doesn't.

We the electorate must decide which party can best set policy, work with congress, and convience the free world to work with us and share responsibilities.

Posted by: eda11 | October 15, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

McCain might go down in history as having run one of the worst lives in history. Failure, underachieving, dissapointments, f-ing up, inapropriate conduct, he is a pretty lousy person.

Posted by: beefeater1 | October 15, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

dribbling....
why dont you just
sponsor a less fortunate
family
and maybe you can find
a fellow dribber
to do you....

Posted by: USA3 | October 15, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Here's what I want Obama to say about Ayers:

"Sen McCain has talked a lot about this guy in my neighborhood who did some bad thing when I was 8. I think the Vietnam era was a traumatic time for this nation, Sen McCain has an interest in past disputes that I do not share. America needs to focus on our challenges today, not that of 40 years ago!"

Posted by: quatzecoutl | October 15, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

I don't think I agree that the second Rocky was a disappointment. It may not have the same punch--Oh Lord that's terrible--as the first one, but I totally love the scene where Apollo's trainer explains why he shouldn't fight Rocky again:

"He's all wrong for us, baby. I saw you beat that man like I never saw no man get beat before, and the man kept coming after you. Now we don't need no man like that in our lives."

Posted by: coupland12 | October 15, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

If McCain is going to BUDGE the polls, he's going to have to learn that dropping ONE glove (Palin) isn't going to cut it - the good cop/bad cop routine doesn't work in a political campaign! You can't be a "nice guy" in a knife fight!

Free advice to John:

1) Learn to use "THAT MEANS…" Don't just say "I tried to prevent the Fannie/Freddie debacle", tell HOW the whistle was blown and the red flag raised... and name names of those who resisted! Respond to Obama's charges with facts, like "Tax cuts don't reduce revenues... they INCREASE them every time they're tried". Point out that corporations don't pay taxes... they pass the costs on to their customers or they cut costs by laying off workers. Either way, taxing corporations hurts FAMILIES. Talk about removing tax barriers to REPATRIATING offshore operations.

2) Mudslinging may be distasteful, but it WORKS. TALK about why Obama's economic policy is a disaster. Talk about ALL his associations* and the PATTERN they depict. (Don't get bogged down in the specifics of Ayers or Wright... give the totality of associations and let the CLOUD swirl around him!) Talk about ACORN. Talk about his WORLD VIEW. When asked about your own policies - give a CONCISE answer and end on a CONTRAST with "that one". Never let an answer end without a hit on Obama... keep him on the defensive!

3) DISTILL the World View difference down to brass tacks:

Obama World View: America is a greedy evil which must be restrained. Government is the answer to the problems of the downtrodden. Taxation's purpose is to redistribute wealth and to manipulate behavior.

McCain World View: America is a powerful force for GOOD in the world and the people can accomplish great things if they are UNCHAINED. Americans are the most charitable people on the face of the earth and don't need Government to decide where to distribute their charity for them. Taxation is a necessary evil to generate revenues for the appropriate business of Government, which is constitutionally limited.

*http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.1445/pub_detail.asp

Posted by: edeldoug | October 15, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Since zouk is the one who's on here all day, every day, for years now -- one can only conclude that he's the unemployable one.

Just scroll down and see how many posts he makes every single day. Quite amazing, isn't it? So much time he has on his hands.

Posted by: drindl | October 15, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Chris, if the media makes "McCain Makes His Stand" a winning theme for McCain in tonight's debate, isn't that just bad reporting. Of course he'll make his stand. He has no choice. But like Custer, simply making a stand has no winning value in and of itself. He makes a stand... who cares? He only gets and advantage if he makes an effective stand. Don't turn this into a media driven horse race in the vein of any debate GW Bush was ever in (i.e. if he can just avoid pissing his pants, W will effectively win this debate).

Posted by: hiberniantears | October 15, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Oh and btw, brainiac, Sarah Palin passed a windfall profits tax on oil companies in Alaska.

I'd ask ya to google it, but you probably couldn't manage.

Posted by: drindl | October 15, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

dribbling at my desk,
dribbbing on my hankerchief'

Posted by: USA3 | October 15, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

drindl is the only person in the history of the world to work for a poor person. the rest of us work for rich people.

Oh, wait, I keep forgetting, drindl is unemployable. never mind. something about extreme anti-social behavior and anger management issues.

Well it leaves her lots of time to blog and visit her peeps at huff and Kos. Vote Obama and send drindl bigger welfare checks.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

What about Rocky IV where Sly told the newly won-over crowd of bloodthirsty pre-Perestroikans, "I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change!"?

Since the message was "change," the advantage would go with Obama. But McCain is clearly the underdog in this bout.

I have a feeling we are not going to get a James Brown cameo during this debate, though.

http://www.squatcrouch.com/


Posted by: Squatty_HJ | October 15, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

how stupid, are you "USA' is more to the point...

Posted by: drindl | October 15, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

the idea of class warfare is a moot point,
if obama taxes corporations the cost gets
passed on to consumers'
how stupid are you people????

just like the windfall tax on oil companies?
a company raises prices to offset costs.

oh, yes, and they lay off people and cut
back on expenditures.

obama will not raise the poor,
he will sink the middle class!

NOBAMA08

Posted by: USA3 | October 15, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

I saw the 'sarah palin is a **nt'
t-shirts!!!????

I wonder what hell would be raised
if people were to wear
'obama is a ******'

tee shirts....


I am hoping middle of the road americans
will vote against this liberal media blitz.
I will.

NOBAMA08!

Posted by: USA3 | October 15, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

As part of his new economic outline - The Pension and Family Security Plan - Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) has proposed cutting the tax rate on long term capital gains and dividends to 7.5 percent in 2009 and 2010. The current tax rate for these capital gains is 15 percent.

Today, the non-partisan Tax Policy Center (TPC) released an analysis showing who would benefit from this cut. Like the rest of McCain’s tax cuts, this one overwhelmingly aids the wealthy, with two-thirds of the benefit going to those making over $1 million:

In 2009, under a plan that lowers taxes on both gains and dividends, those making $1 million or more would get two-thirds of the benefit, and an average tax cut of more than $72,000. Those making less than $50,000 would get, on average, nothing.

As the TPC pointed out, “75% of the benefit of low taxes on capital gains and dividends already go to those making $600,000 or more. Half goes to those making $2.8 million or more.”

Posted by: drindl | October 15, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

With Americans reeling from a global financial crisis, dozens of former Washington Mutual insiders have come forward to expose what they claim were calamitous executive decisions that led to the biggest bank failure in U.S. history.


Former employees of Washington Mutual, known as WaMu, claim that questionable decisions made on the executive level led to the downfall of the bank.
(Eric Risberg, file/AP Photo)
These former WaMu employees, 89 of them who worked throughout the company and around the country, described a bank eager to profit from a housing boom and lending frenzy that seemed to have contributed to the credit crunch and housing bust now plaguing the economy. Some of them spoke to ABC News, all of them are confidential witnesses in a recently filed shareholder class action lawsuit against WaMu.

In court documents, the insiders said the company's risk managers, the "gatekeepers" who were supposed to protect the bank from taking undue risks, were ignored, marginalized and in some cases, fired. At the same time, some of the bank's lenders and underwriters who sold mortgages directly to home owners said they felt pressure to sell as many loans as possible and push risky but lucrative loans onto all borrowers, according to insiders who spoke to ABC News.

And this is "only the tip of the iceberg,"a former high-level executive claimed in the lawsuit.

Posted by: drindl | October 15, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Put your 401K money in a guaranteed fund,
then take out the $10,000 that obama
is proposing,
and buy EXXON....
and ride out this socialist storm.
Good Luck, America!

NOBAMA

Posted by: USA3 | October 15, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

In case you wondered, here's the venom zouk feeds on:


Limbaugh: We know that technological advancement is going along at light speed. And yet during this period of time, whether it be the last 57 years or be it the last 20 years, it seems that a majority of the black population has remained angry, frustrated, and behind. They've been left behind. They are acting like they've been left behind, and of course we've heard that this is because of racism, natural systemic institutional racism in America, that we are unfair, that this country is just horrible and rotten.

...The federal government became the father. The father didn't have to hang around in order for the kids to be okay, depending on how you define okay. But as you study more and more of this ACORN stuff, you find that it has been part of an entire movement that has been going on for two, maybe three decades, right under our noses.

We thought that it was just liberal welfare policies and all that that kept blacks from progressing while other minorities grew and prospered, but no, it is these wackos from Bill Ayers to Jeremiah Wright to other anti-American Afrocentric black liberation theologists with ACORN, and Barack Obama is smack dab in the middle of it, they have been training young black kids to hate, hate, hate this country, and they trained their parents before that to hate, hate, hate this country. It was a movement. It was a Bill Ayers, anti-capitalist, anti-American educational movement. ACORN is how it was implemented, right under our noses. It has been a movement, it has been a religion, and Obama and Jeremiah Wright and William Ayers were all up to their big ears in it."

He doesn't even try to hide the racism anymore... it's right out there.

Who really hates this country? It's people like Limbaugh and zouk, who would rather see this country go down in flames, in violence, in white lynch mobs and an epidemic of foreclosure victims suicides, than give up worshipping at the feet of their god, unregulated capitalism and phony 'conservatism' which is now just another word for GREED and HATRED.

It's a sicknesss that creeps over us, just as fascism, its brother, did over Europe.

Posted by: drindl | October 15, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Obama's birth stirs legal action in Washington


Posted at 4:48 pm by Jerry Cornfield

Is Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama a natural born U.S. citizen.

His critics and his foes have spent a good deal of time raising doubt and spreading rumors that he’s not.

Today, Steve Marquis of Fall City
filed a lawsuit in King County Superior Court directing Secretary of State Sam Reed to get the proof – or remove Obama’s name from ballots.

Here is his press release.

He argues in a 30-page document:

“To avert likely civil unrest and a constitutional crisis…this complaint seeks to resolve such complaints prior to the election. It was incumbent on the candidates to present such documentation, but to date Mr. Obama has failed to do so.

What if Obama is thrown out of office after discovering he is not a citizen. then biden takes over and forgets what country he is in. Pelosi takes over as the first woman president. hillary moves to cuba.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

'Christopher Dodd plans to unveil a legislative package including consumer protection measures pertaining to credit cards, predatory lending, bankruptcies and subprime mortgages NASDAQ'

And this is a bad thing? You Rs really have gone insane. It's quite amazing, really.

Posted by: drindl | October 15, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

The election is over and Obama is running away with it. It leaves the pundits in a quandary because they're paid to say SOMETHING, even ANYTHING. When there's nothing to say except "It's over, we're just waiting for November 4th to turn out the lights", it doesn't make for sufficient page views, circulation, or ratings.

Posted by: PDiddy | October 15, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

This Is Not A Joke Sen Dodd To Introduce Consumer Protection Bill Sen Christopher Dodd plans to unveil a legislative package including consumer protection measures pertaining to credit cards, predatory lending, bankruptcies and subprime mortgages NASDAQ

If he really wants to protect us, he should resign.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Biden Routes Campaign Cash To Family, Their Firms Democratic vice-presidential candidate Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. has paid more than $2 million in campaign cash to his family members, their businesses and employers over the years Washington Times

anyway to buy stock in ACORN?

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 15, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

I think there is a chance you might be wrong on tonight's debate.

I wonder if it is going to get the viewership everyone thinks

...almost 2 years later and we are tired.

We know how important this is...but we here them talk

and talk

and talk

a quasi real debate will have little effect...

most have decided.

and what most have decided is that we need to turn the page.

we need a new chapter...

thi9s debate feels an awful lot like the footnotes of a chapter we are done with.

Posted by: klondike2 | October 15, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

So, the only thing that you could come up for that is in McCain's advantage is the media and that there is a potential for there to be more people watching?

Kind of sums up McCain's situation doesn't it. He is SOL after running what may go down in history as the worst presidential campaign ever.

Posted by: JoelB8 | October 15, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

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