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Health care, health care and more health care

The "Live Fix" chat today was dominated by health care -- not surprising given the blot-out-the-sun nature of the story as the House vote on President Barack Obama's health care bill approaches a final vote this weekend.

A few of our favorite questions -- plus our breakdown of what went wrong with Georgetown last night -- is below:

Q: Vote count

There seem to be two very different narratives going around about the vote count. One is that Pelosi has the votes, and will thus be able to allow some members to vote against the bill---this narrative is the front page NY Times story, plus Nate Silver, plus the intrade markets and others. The other narrative is that she doesn't yet have the votes, and may struggle to get them. Is this division normal for votes like this?


A. Chris Cillizza

I think it is because so much of the vote-counting is going on behind closed doors and, hence, not available for public consumption.

Remember that simply because there remain a number of undecideds publicly on the bill doesn't mean all of those ame people are undecided privately. My guess is that there are only a handful of truly undecided members at this point.

I have long believed that the White House simply cannot let this bill fail as it would fundamentally undermine the argument Obama made in 2008 that he could get Washington working again.

That said, there is at least one very smart observer of the House that I speak to regularly who insists it is going to be much harder for Pelosi to get to 216 than people realize.

Either way, C-SPAN on Sunday is going to be must-watch TV.

Q. Sunday or Monday Vote

Mr. Fix: C'mon: The pres. canceled a major trip; this is gonna get done. Assuming that it does; what actions will the states and groups like the US Chamber and AHIP do on Monday morning? Will there be another barrage of ads and calls to action?


A. Chris Cillizza

Lots of questions running in this vein....

As I said before, I assume this thing goes through on Sunday/Monday solely because the White House views the stakes as SO high that they will do anything -- literally to get to 216. But, remember, this is politics and unpredictable things happen all the time.

As for what happens in the aftermath of the bill, I do think there will be a barrage of ads on both sides as each side tries to frame what the bill, presuming it passes, will do.

There's little debate that Republicans won the message war in the runup to the vote this weekend. Democrats MUST find a way to win it between now and November.

Q. Not to rub it in, but

Dude. Seriously. Ohio?! Maybe listening to a little alt-country will make you feel better.

A. Chris Cillizza

Ok. The time has come to address Georgetown's stunning and incredibly disappointing loss last night. My thoughts in no particular order:

1. They played great -- particularly their guards.

2. We played listlessly -- at best -- with the exception of Chris Wright (all heart) and, to an extent, Monroe.

3. Hoya fans cold have seen this coming. This is a team that beat Duke, Nova and Syracuse but also lost to Rutgers, South Florida, Old Dominion and a Harangody-less Notre Dame team. High highs, low lows.

4. I now can dedicate my sports obsession to two targets: a) boning up on soccer in advance of the World Cup this summer and b) bothering Mrs. Fix with incessant questions about the Catholic University field hockey team.

By Chris Cillizza  |  March 19, 2010; 4:22 PM ET
Categories:  Fix Notes  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: The battle for the big state governorships
Next: Health care bill passes House 219-212

Comments

I don't live in Bart Stupak's district, but he SHOULD be voted out. The rest of us need to vote out the following Dems:

Ackerman
Adler (NJ)
Andrews
Arcuri
Baca
Baird
Baldwin
Bean
Becerra
Berkley
Berman
Bishop (GA)
Bishop (NY)
Blumenauer
Boccieri
Boswell
Boucher
Boyd
Brady (PA)
Braley (IA)
Brown, Corrine
Butterfield
Capps
Capuano
Cardoza
Carnahan
Carney
Carson (IN)
Castor (FL)
Chu
Clarke
Clay
Cleaver
Clyburn
Cohen
Connolly (VA)
Conyers
Cooper
Costa
Courtney
Crowley
Cuellar
Cummings
Dahlkemper
Davis (AL)
Davis (CA)
Davis (IL)
DeFazio
DeGette
Delahunt
DeLauro
Dicks
Dingell
Doggett
Doyle
Driehaus
Edwards (MD)
Edwards (TX)
Ellison
Ellsworth
Engel
Eshoo
Etheridge
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Foster
Frank (MA)
Fudge
Garamendi
Giffords
Gonzalez
Gordon (TN)
Grayson
Green, Al
Green, Gene
Grijalva
Gutierrez
Hall (NY)
Halvorson
Hare
Harman
Hastings (FL)
Heinrich
Herseth Sandlin
Higgins
Hill
Himes
Hinchey
Hinojosa
Hirono
Hodes
Holt
Honda
Hoyer
Inslee
Israel
Jackson (IL)
Jackson Lee (TX)
Johnson (GA)
Johnson, E. B.
Kagen
Kanjorski
Kaptur
Kennedy
Kildee
Kilpatrick (MI)
Kilroy
Kind
Kirkpatrick (AZ)
Kissell
Klein (FL)
Kosmas
Kratovil
Kucinich
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee (CA)
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Loebsack
Lofgren, Zoe
Lowey
Luján
Lynch
Maffei
Maloney
Markey (CO)
Markey (MA)
Matsui
McCarthy (NY)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McMahon
McNerney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Michaud
Miller (NC)
Miller, George
Minnick
Mitchell
Mollohan
Moore (KS)
Moore (WI)
Moran (VA)
Murphy (CT)
Murphy (NY)
Murphy, Patrick
Nadler (NY)
Napolitano
Neal (MA)
Nye
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Ortiz
Owens
Pallone
Pascrell
Pastor (AZ)
Payne
Pelosi
Perlmutter
Perriello
Peters
Pingree (ME)
Polis (CO)
Pomeroy
Price (NC)
Quigley
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Richardson
Rodriguez
Rothman (NJ)
Roybal-Allard
Ruppersberger
Rush
Ryan (OH)
Salazar
Sánchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Sarbanes
Schakowsky
Schauer
Schiff
Schrader
Schwartz
Scott (GA)
Scott (VA)
Serrano
Sestak
Shea-Porter
Sherman
Sires
Slaughter
Smith (WA)
Snyder
Space
Speier
Spratt
Stark
Stupak
Sutton
Tanner
Teague
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Titus
Tonko
Towns
Tsongas
Van Hollen
Velázquez
Visclosky
Walz
Wasserman Schultz
Waters
Watson
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Welch
Wilson (OH)
Woolsey
Wu
Yarmuth

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 22, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

LOL!! Oh Lawdy, JakeDuh back with the lawsuits...again? Again?? Didn't you spend your golfing funds on birther suits and Alan Krazy Eye Keyes and now you are going to waste money supporting some suit challenging the supremacy of federal law?

And 37th and O? Your irrational, repetitious spamming tells me that somebody needs a nappy poo.

Posted by: LABC | March 22, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

mandates don't kick in for 4 years so get back with me in 2014. Medicare and SS are current mandates in place for over 70 years, whether you like them or not so unless the GOP is also willing to test those mandates, it will be nothing but frivolous.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 22, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

About time the US gained something approaching equitable health care.

It was an absolute disgrace that the richest country in the world thought so little of its low income earners that one sixth of the population did not have access to basic health care.

So much for this land of the free and home of the brave.

Most of the wealth in this dysfuntional country is owned a privileged few, social equity does not exist in the United States.

It disgusts me that the mega-rich of America think so little of their fellow, poorer citizens they are prepared to let them die rather than cough up a meagre increase in their tax dollars.

In Australia every Australian citizen has a Medicare card which guarantees almost free hospital and medical care. We have had this system in place since 1984 despite attempts by right wing reactionaries to dismantle the system.

The problem with America is - everything must be bought including health care. With such an inadequate welfare system no wonder it has the highest crime rate in the western world.

Posted by: Grevillea | March 22, 2010 1:45 AM | Report abuse

"Another person who will go down in history as a very effective Speaker is Nancy Pelosi. She delivered the votes! Sam Rayburn would be proud. Posted by: 12BarBlues"

Pelosi, Reid, and Obama, and many other leaders, who weathered all the criticism and produced a truly bipartisan bill. THEY really did keep Obama's promise to change the way things are done in D.C. and they did it in the face of particularly malicious criticism from both sides of the aisle. Pelosi and reid deserve a great deal of appreciation, because they didn't give in to the demands of the Dems who felt they should have told the R's to take a flying leap, and the catcalls of the R's taunting them because they "Couldn't pss this bill in spite of overwhelming D majorities."

It is nice to see that R and P and the other leaders on the majority side can behave like adults. Sad that the R's show no such tendencies.

Posted by: ceflynline | March 22, 2010 12:02 AM | Report abuse

Obama will not be re-elected - that is certain. But that is the way he wanted it.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 11:57 PM | Report abuse

ceflynline:

Biden should sign it, just to be safe.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 11:56 PM | Report abuse

Nancy Pelosi will go down.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 11:51 PM | Report abuse

"And it's law pending Obama's signature. Posted by: DDAWD"

Actually, unless Congress adjourns in the next ten days it is law unless he vetoes it. (Pocket veto and all that.)

Still, expect the predictions of republican success to be about as accurate as predictions of Republican defeat of the measure in the house.

It is law, and all we have to do is make that law better. Start by making Public option available in places, like North Dakota and Montana, where there are too few hospitals, clinics, and health care professionals.

Onward and upward.

Posted by: ceflynline | March 21, 2010 11:49 PM | Report abuse


The American People do NOT want these MASSIVE NEW GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS AND MASSIVE NEW TAXES WITH THIS HEALTH CARE PLAN.


Obama will be impeached over this.

This health care bill AMOUNTS TO A MASSIVE DRAG ON THE ECONOMY -

THIS BILL IS OBAMA'S SMOOT-HAWLEY - AN ECONOMIC PROGRAM WHICH HURTS THE ECONOMY.


OBAMA WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS WORSE THAN HOOVER. Let me make that clear.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 11:46 PM | Report abuse

Another person who will go down in history as a very effective Speaker is Nancy Pelosi. She delivered the votes! Sam Rayburn would be proud.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 11:41 PM | Report abuse

LEMMINGS IN A TOYOTA


I guess it feels good until you hit the ground.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 11:41 PM | Report abuse


LEMMINGS IN A TOYOTA


I guess it feels good until you hit the ground.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 11:38 PM | Report abuse

NOTHING changed in the Senate bill re: abortion. Stupak was against abortion, now he isn't.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 11:35 PM | Report abuse

When Stupak was opposing the bill, the R's were all with him. As soon as Stupak is satisfied that abortions rights are not being advanced, they turn against him. Shows it never was about abortion.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

So supposedly a Republican congressman yelled "baby killer" to Stupak.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 11:26 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of intrade. There is 100 shares going for 98.5

Easy $2 if you want to plop down a grand.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 11:23 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like a brilliant GOP winning strategy, go for it suzy.with any luck maybe another 45,000 Americans will continue to die each year

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 11:19 PM


Since you have all the numbers, leichtman, how many babies will be aborted each year?

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 11:23 PM | Report abuse

yea suzy brilliant strategy. Tell parents their 25 year olds shouldn't have HC; that seniors shouldn't have their prescription donut hole filled; to reinstitue caps on HC benefits and how great it is to deny cancer patients HC b/c of pre-existing coverage. Sounds like a brilliant GOP winning strategy, go for it suzy.with any luck maybe another 45,000 Americans will continue to die each year b/c Rs don t believe they deserve to be able to buy HC.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 11:19 PM | Report abuse

leichtman1:

You must have me confused with someone who uses Intrade or files frivolous lawsuits. I've always said that mandates would be legally challenged if this bill passed.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 11:19 PM | Report abuse

its over GOP whiners, you lost, move on.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 11:08 PM


It's far from over. It just started.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 11:17 PM | Report abuse

The substance of lawsuits (including those by States) include the mandates. Lurkers know that Obamacare doesn't pass the smell test.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 11:13 PM | Report abuse

And it's done. Happy Birthday, CF8.

Can you believe it? How many times has this bill nearly been killed?

But we did it. It's done. This is why we worked our asses off two years ago to elect Obama.

Enjoy this.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Want to win in November? Just say "repeal!"

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 11:10 PM | Report abuse

you mean the frivolous lawsuits that you screamed here last week that you and the GOP swore would never happen?

As I told you jake please file your frivolous lawsuits here in Texas where we have sanctions and ethical rules against filing of frivolous suits. Oh we forgot you are retired and don t bother to keep up with current legal statutes jake.

The smartest thing for Ds to do next week: let jake, boehner and the GOP continue to wine about HC reform and immediately put Banking Reform and additional job stimulus at the top of the Congressional agenda.

its over GOP whiners, you lost, move on.

Stop your whining and move on and lets get busy with Banking Reform and improving the economy.

zouk and jake still out there shorting HC?

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

GeeGHee 37th didn't you say that "Nancy" didn't have the votes? About a thousand f ucking times? Didn't you say "it's over," about a thousand f ucking times? Gee, all that carpet posting, all those blank lines, and HCR PASSED ANYWAY.

CHOKE. REALLY CHOKE.

Even Jake has to fall back on the birther sh|t.

See you in November, LOSERS.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

Stupak = baby killer

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

America loses.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse


Health Care a right or privilege in our society? Vote

http://www.youpolls.com/default.asp


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Posted by: usadblake | March 21, 2010 11:05 PM | Report abuse

Go tell'em Stupak!

I also liked Pelosi's speech.

And now another 15 minute vote

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler shows his usual class.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 10:58 PM


37, he's waiting for Mr Cillizza's server room guy to celebrate. Barney Frank will join them.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Stupak sets the terms of the abortion debate. Very masterful!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD:

Biden better sign this bill just in case.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Yes Suzy Republicans should act like spoiled children just before they convene in private and drink cyanide.

Yeah, Jake lawsuits, yeah 37th, big backlash to come. Right.

Your side lost, Cletus, so go eat s hit!

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler shows his usual class.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 10:58 PM | Report abuse

HEC PASSES THE HOUSE!!

I'm 56 today. WHAT A GREAT PRESENT!!

Congratulations to PRESIDENT Obama!

UP YOURS, REPUBLICANS!! UP YOURS!!

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 10:55 PM | Report abuse

All the republicans should walk out and give the finger to the Botox Queen.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 10:53 PM | Report abuse

Next on the democratic agenda is free food for everyone.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 10:49 PM | Report abuse

Let's see the democrats cheer this November.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 10:49 PM | Report abuse

Hi 5's all around.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 10:48 PM | Report abuse

What is this motion to recommit?

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Man, crawfish and health care. nice night.

And they got 216

And it's law pending Obama's signature.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 10:46 PM | Report abuse

As I said, now is time for the lawsuits to be filed.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 10:45 PM | Report abuse

Don't forget to blame the democrats anytime your health insurance premiums go up in the future.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 10:45 PM | Report abuse

Wow look at 37th go completely spla.

THREE post-post dots now.

Entirely crazy predictions... Where the hell are republicans going to get 67 Senators? They're 26 short.

Told you he'd keep at it.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Just looked at the Asian equity markets. Trading up or down less than 1%. A snooze. That means Asian markets are anticipating a quiet open in the U.S. markets.

All's quiet on the eastern front.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 10:39 PM | Report abuse


Tonight will MAKE HISTORY AS THE GREATEST ABUSE OF POWER IN AMERICAN HISTORY. The American People do NOT want a massive new government program with massive new taxes.


Obama will probably be impeached over this.


The American People do NOT want this bill - why the democrats are insisting on pushing something on the American People which they have CLEARLY STATED THEY DO NOT WANT - who knows why.


The American People are completely sick of Obama - and they will take it out on the democrats in November.


Somehow Obama thinks the American People will forget - the American People are NOT going to forget this one.


This health care bill is going to get DE-FUNDED -


Then this health care bill will be REPEALED.


OBAMA will be impeached over this gross AND HISTORIC ABUSE OF GOVERNMENT POWER.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 10:39 PM | Report abuse

37:

Just ignore them.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 10:39 PM | Report abuse

The bond market is beginning to show that Obama's spending is causing the country may lose its AAA rating.

Way to go Obama.

After tonight, with the wild spending which is certain to go on under this health care bill, the finances of this country will hang in the balance.

Way to go democrats.

The democrats have been nothing but IRRESPONSIBLE WITH THIS COUNTRY.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 10:37 PM | Report abuse

¡¡¡IRONY ALERT!!!

You are such a crybaby, by the way.

Posted by: hewhoshallnotbenamed.

---

In a more serious vein, the dueling pressers on abortion coverage were riveting this afternoon. Republicans couldn't roll Stupak and are bitter.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 21, 2010 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Could someone fix up 37th's posts, so they post, but in 6 pt font? I would appreciate it.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Tonight will MAKE HISTORY AS THE GREATEST ABUSE OF POWER IN AMERICAN HISTORY. The American People do NOT want a massive new government program with massive new taxes.


Obama will probably be impeached over this.


The American People do NOT want this bill - why the democrats are insisting on pushing something on the American People which they have CLEARLY STATED THEY DO NOT WANT - who knows why.


The American People are completely sick of Obama - and they will take it out on the democrats in November.


Somehow Obama thinks the American People will forget - the American People are NOT going to forget this one.


This health care bill is going to get DE-FUNDED -


Then this health care bill will be REPEALED.


OBAMA will be impeached over this gross AND HISTORIC ABUSE OF GOVERNMENT POWER.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 10:31 PM | Report abuse

I don't agree with the quote from Frum.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 10:31 PM | Report abuse

I thought the Speaker was getting ONE MINUTE?

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 10:27 PM | Report abuse

We all agree with the quote from Frum that MM posted. Since when did Palin, Audra Shay, Limbaugh, Dale Robertson...and 37 take over the GOP? Where's Powell, Hagel, and Armitage? Voices of reason.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 21, 2010 10:26 PM | Report abuse


Tonight will MAKE HISTORY AS THE GREATEST ABUSE OF POWER IN AMERICAN HISTORY. The American People do NOT want a massive new government program with massive new taxes.


Obama will probably be IMPEACHED over the abuses of power which have no precedent in history.

Not even King George of England was accused of RAISING TAXES SO MUCH - OR ABUSING POWER SO MUCH.

The American People do NOT want this bill - why the democrats are insisting on pushing something on the American People which they have CLEARLY STATED THEY DO NOT WANT - who knows why.


The American People are completely sick of Obama - and they will take it out on the democrats in November.


Somehow Obama thinks the American People will forget - the American People are NOT going to forget this one.


This health care bill is going to get DE-FUNDED -


Then this health care bill will be REPEALED.


OBAMA will be impeached over this gross AND HISTORIC ABUSE OF GOVERNMENT POWER.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

37th & O writes
"And would you please pay my Obama taxes ???"

Have you done your taxes yet?

Mine went down.


this bears repeating:

"We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat."
- David Frum

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Posted by: bsimon1 | March 21, 2010 10:21 PM | Report abuse

37, seriously, if you don't go upstairs to get the mac and chesse, you'll be left with a mayo sandwich for dinner. Come up from the basement now!

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 21, 2010 10:21 PM | Report abuse

Over on RCP, the conservatives are singing "Abraham, Martin, & John".

Gee... speaking of Deep, Deep, Mourning:

Anybody Here... see my Ole Friend America....

- Can You Tell me Where She's Gone ???

She Freed A Lot of People - but The Good, They Die Young (approx. 200 yrs)...

- You just look Around and She's

..... Gone !!!!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Time for the lawsuits to be filed.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 10:19 PM | Report abuse

margaret, good link. Another interesting point by Frum:

"This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none."


Will the wingers continue to insist it is better to maintain ideological & partisan purity, even if you lose, or do you learn to compromise and end up with something short of your ideal, but not as painful as a total loss?

For those who think repeal of the Obamacare is in the cards, Frum prebuts that delusion as well:

"This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the "doughnut hole" and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents' insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there - would President Obama sign such a repeal?
We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat."

say it again

"We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat."

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 21, 2010 10:18 PM | Report abuse

@MM,

The R's will probably rain down the second stage of grief on Frum. Nothing is more unwelcome to the losers, than hearing one of their own say "I told you so". I read his blog, and I agree with Frum.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 10:16 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Your aunt is screaming at you "Tell me that in November"


And would you please pay my Obama taxes ???

This fight is just beginning - next spring this whole bill will be DE-FUNDED - AND AFTER THAT THE BILL WILL BE REPEALED.

So, this fight will continue - the battle lines are drawn.

Broadwayjoe - his sexism and racism will be called out - and the democrats will be defeated.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm hanging here in front of the computer, waiting for the vote to start. I've watched each vote, because I know how historic this is. I never thought we'd see this day. We can thank the President for resurrecting this bill. What an achievement--this makes me remember why I voted for the President.

I want to say that it feels like I'm among friends. Even 37th is familiar, sort of like the crazy aunt in the attic hollering in the background. Good debates, good talks with all of you. Thanks.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 10:01 PM | Report abuse

from David Frum, speechwriter for George W. Bush:

"We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat...
I've been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that ouroverheated talk is doing to us. Yes it mobilizes supporters - but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead."

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 21, 2010 9:55 PM | Report abuse


Tonight will MAKE HISTORY AS THE GREATEST ABUSE OF POWER IN AMERICAN HISTORY. The American People do NOT want a massive new government program with massive new taxes.


Obama will probably be impeached over this.


The American People do NOT want this bill - why the democrats are insisting on pushing something on the American People which they have CLEARLY STATED THEY DO NOT WANT - who knows why.


The American People are completely sick of Obama - and they will take it out on the democrats in November.


Somehow Obama thinks the American People will forget - the American People are NOT going to forget this one.

This health care bill is going to get DE-FUNDED -


Then this health care bill will be REPEALED.


OBAMA will be impeached over this gross AND HISTORIC ABUSE OF GOVERNMENT POWER.


.
.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:54 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


Obama HAS failed - Obama has failed because he is NOT REPRESENTING WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT.

Obama and his democrats will lose the elections in November.

That is a failure. Obama will be recorded in history as someone who is a FAILURE - COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE COUNTRY - AND SOMEONE WHO IGNORED THE ECONOMY AND SOMEONE WHO MADE THE RECESSION WORSE.

Obama will be viewed in history as no better than Hoover, who also adopted policies THAT RAN COUNTER TO ECONOMIC RECOVERY.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:53 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


Obama HAS failed - Obama has failed because he is NOT REPRESENTING WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT.

Obama and his democrats will lose the elections in November.

That is a failure. Obama will be recorded in history as someone who is a FAILURE - COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE COUNTRY - AND SOMEONE WHO IGNORED THE ECONOMY AND SOMEONE WHO MADE THE RECESSION WORSE.

Obama will be viewed in history as no better than Hoover, who also adopted policies THAT RAN COUNTER TO ECONOMIC RECOVERY.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:52 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe

Obama and the democrats never intended to bargain, we have been over this several times - the reason is the result would have been a CENTRIST BILL IN LINE WITH WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT.


You are a complete fool.

The American People do not want a far-left bill - you can talk to yourself all you want saying that everyone will change their minds - they won't.


You are a crybaby as well as a fool.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:49 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


You can STOP WITH YOUR FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM.

You have been PROVEN TO BE WRONG TIME AND TIME AGAIN.


Yet you persist.

Has it ever occured to you that your goals of a post-racial world ARE NOT HELPED ONE BIT BY YOUR FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM.


BUT YOU PERSIST - SHOWING HOW LOW YOUR INTELLIGENCE LEVEL IS.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:46 PM | Report abuse

denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.

And if the Republicans actually tried bargaining, they might have gotten something better.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 9:36 PM
______________

They never intended to bargain. They had no public interest goal. They said upfront and quite honestly they wanted BHO "to fail" and then proceeded to deny him even a single vote on bill after bill. BHO should have given up on "bipartisanship" six months ago and simply gone forward to do the people's business.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 21, 2010 9:46 PM | Report abuse


Tonight will MAKE HISTORY AS THE GREATEST ABUSE OF POWER IN AMERICAN HISTORY. The American People do NOT want a massive new government program with massive new taxes.


Obama will probably be impeached over this.


The American People do NOT want this bill - why the democrats are insisting on pushing something on the American People which they have CLEARLY STATED THEY DO NOT WANT - who knows why.


The American People are completely sick of Obama - and they will take it out on the democrats in November.


Somehow Obama thinks the American People will forget - the American People are NOT going to forget this one.


This health care bill is going to get DE-FUNDED -


Then this health care bill will be REPEALED.

OBAMA will be impeached over this gross AND HISTORIC ABUSE OF GOVERNMENT POWER.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:37 PM | Report abuse

Sam Stein's HuffPo recent article exposes for all time that the baggers' opposition to HCR has nothing to do with merits of the bill (whose content they don't understand or care about) but everything to do about the color of the president who's championing it. Excerpt from the Sam Stein piece:

"Abusive, derogatory and even racist behavior directed at House Democrats by Tea Party protesters on Saturday left several lawmakers in shock.

Preceding the president's speech to a gathering of House Democrats, thousands of protesters descended around the Capitol to protest the passage of health care reform. The gathering quickly turned into abusive heckling, as members of Congress passing through Longworth House office building were subjected to epithets and even mild physical abuse.

A staffer for Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.) told reporters that Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) had been spat on by a protestor. Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), a hero of the civil rights movement, was called a 'ni--er.' And Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) was called a "fag---t," as protestors shouted at him with deliberately lisp-y screams. Frank, approached in the halls after the president's speech, shrugged off the incident.
....

"It was absolutely shocking to me," Clyburn said, in response to a question from the Huffington Post. "Last Monday, this past Monday, I stayed home to meet on the campus of Claflin University where fifty years ago as of last Monday... I led the first demonstrations in South Carolina, the sit ins... And quite frankly I heard some things today I have not heard since that day. I heard people saying things that I have not heard since March 15, 1960 when I was marching to try and get off the back of the bus."

....

Asked if he wanted an apology from the group of Republican lawmakers who had addressed the crowd and, in many ways, played on their worst fears of health care legislation, the Democratic Party, and the president, Clyburn replied:

"A lot of us have been saying for a long time that much of this, much of this is not about health care a all. And I think a lot of those people today demonstrated that this is not about health care... it is about trying to extend a basic fundamental right to people who are less powerful."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/tea-party-protests-nier-f_n_507116.html

Echoes of 1939 Germany, 1960s Birmingham...

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 21, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.

And if the Republicans actually tried bargaining, they might have gotten something better.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

margaretmeyers


Are you describing Obama and the democrats - after it become apparent the American People did not want their far-left wing agenda.

I believe the democrats are going through anger - and they are being destructive to their own party.

You got it right.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:33 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues

Dancing with a chicken.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:31 PM | Report abuse

@MM,

What's the next stage, just in case someone actually gets to it. I'm inclined to agree with ddawd. R's seem to have trouble moving on.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 9:29 PM | Report abuse

I don't think either of you are where you say you are - I think you are both pretending to be from different parts of the country.
---------------------------------
You are so, what's the word, don't tell me, the word is visionary. That's what you are, 37th the visionary. You are the perfect contrary indicator. If you predict something will happen, it definitely won't happen. If you predict something won't happen, you know for sure it will. Your record is 100%.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Ronald Reagan: "I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born."

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Hear, hear Mike Pence.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

Anger

Coming to terms with your grief after you have gone past the denial level is anger. You need to handle this phase very carefully, as you may become quite destructive. You may engage in actions that you will regret later on. Both your relationship as well as property may end up in pieces! Throwing temper tantrums will only make matters more complicated.

Duck, 12Bar! If you thought "Denial" was a lousy stage of grief, the Anger phase is maybe worse. I'm ordering a round of Kubler-Ross for Boehner and his grieving party.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 21, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse


Broadwayjoe


If so many people want this health care bill, they should be out there, showing their support - those people are NO WHERE TO BE FOUND.


You are such a crybaby, by the way.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:20 PM | Report abuse

"I think conservatives are beginning to slide into the second phase of grief. Thank God. I'm getting bored with the denial phase.

At least it's something new.

Posted by: 12BarBlues"

Heh, I think it will just be the first two forever. 80 years later and Conservatives are STILL b*tching about the New Deal.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 9:20 PM | Report abuse

One good thing: after the bagger's recent bigoted meltdown on Capitol Hill (finally reported by the MSM) where they spit of Congrsspeople and yelled racial and ethnic slurs at them, the media hopefully will stop covering/legitimizing the 100 sociopaths that show up at these hate rallies.

Half the time they don't even know why they are at their "rally" because the Big Insurance/Big Pharma lobbyists didn't tell them.

37: your Mom said the mac and cheese is ready and you can wait till tomorrow to redeem your 15 smashed soda cans at Piggly Wiggly. (@Cup: there are no Piggly Wigglys in our metropolitan area.)

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 21, 2010 9:16 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues and broadwayjoe


I don't think either of you are where you say you are - I think you are both pretending to be from different parts of the country.

Your democratic poster Pat Caddell just said:


"The democrats are doing the political equivalent of Jonestown."


That means it is time to listen.

Broadwayjoe, are you going to call Pat Caddell a racist now ??? Seriously, why don't you question his motives ???

Everyone who doesn't agree with you is a racist, right???


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:15 PM | Report abuse


Are Republicans so up in arms against Health Care Reform for the American People or for Political Points? Vote

http://www.youpolls.com/default.asp

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Posted by: usadblake | March 21, 2010 9:12 PM | Report abuse

I think conservatives are beginning to slide into the second phase of grief. Thank God. I'm getting bored with the denial phase.

At least it's something new.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Tonight will MAKE HISTORY AS THE GREATEST ABUSE OF POWER IN AMERICAN HISTORY. The American People do NOT want a massive new government program with massive new taxes.


Obama will probably be impeached over this.

The American People do NOT want this bill - why the democrats are insisting on pushing something on the American People which they have CLEARLY STATED THEY DO NOT WANT - who knows why.

The American People are completely sick of Obama - and they will take it out on the democrats in November.


Somehow Obama thinks the American People will forget - the American People are NOT going to forget this one.


This health care bill is going to get DE-FUNDED -

Then this health care bill will be REPEALED.


OBAMA will be impeached over this gross AND HISTORIC ABUSE OF GOVERNMENT POWER.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:08 PM | Report abuse

"Broadwayjoe:


Where are all the pro-health care protesters ??? ...
Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 8:58 PM"
______________
LOL.

The folks who support HCR have no reason to go the Hill to "protest" as the tea baggers have been doing -- i.e., carrying n-word signs, yelling racial and ethnic slurs, and spitting on Members of Congress, as reported in the Post.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 21, 2010 9:06 PM | Report abuse


Tonight will MAKE HISTORY AS THE GREATEST ABUSE OF POWER IN AMERICAN HISTORY.


Obama will probably be impeached over this.

The American People do NOT want this bill - why the democrats are insisting on pushing something on the American People which they have CLEARLY STATED THEY DO NOT WANT - who knows why. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THIS MASSIVE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM WITH ITS MASSIVE NEW TAXES.

The American People are completely sick of Obama - and they will take it out on the democrats in November.


Somehow Obama thinks the American People will forget - the American People are NOT going to forget this one.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:04 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe

You have got to be kidding - again trying to assume what another person's motives are - YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT THAT PEOPLE HAVE POLICY DIFFERENCES.


To be honest, I really don't care what you think.

YOU ARE A RACIST - the reason I say that is you would never say what you have said to blacks - you only attack whites with your false charges of RACISM.


If you can't understand that, I am sorry.


Martin Luther King would be ashamed of you.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

Obama is the blue truck. The democrats are the red car. They should have never trusted him.

http://pixdaus.com/pics/1209085673hIEln7x.jpg

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

The earlier polls, the ones without the Rasmussen-style loaded questions, indicated 70% of Americans want health care reform. The idea that folks are adamantly opposed to reform is ludicrous (The inability of BHO's communications team to discredit that false narrative is hard to understand.)

The patriots who vote for HCR will be fondly remembered like those who voted for civil rights, clean air, clean water, national parks, etc., all concepts opposed by the precursors to the tea baggers (e.g., Klan, the Brotherhood, etc.).

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 21, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Broadwayjoe:


Where are all the pro-health care protesters ??? No one is supporting this bill.

I guess all those people are saving their money to pay OBAMA'S TAXES.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 8:58 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe, shouldn't you be at the piggly-wiggly?

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Tonight will MAKE HISTORY AS THE GREATEST ABUSE OF POWER IN AMERICAN HISTORY.


Obama will probably be impeached over this.

The American People do NOT want this bill - why the democrats are insisting on pushing something on the American People which they have CLEARLY STATED THEY DO NOT WANT - who knows why.

The American People are completely sick of Obama - and they will take it out on the democrats in November.


Somehow Obama thinks the American People will forget - the American People are NOT going to forget this one.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 8:52 PM | Report abuse

37, we get it: you hate BHO (for the same reasons the teabaggers do) and oppose any initiatives he supports, especially his steps towards universal health care, something enjoyed by EVERY industrialized nation except the U.S.

Even HCR hater Phalin had to admit she regularly crossed into Canada to enjoy the benefits of that nation's universal health care.

So, 3_, stop the unhinged 24/7 carpet posts; we got your "message." No need to repeat your "message" and your stormfront-style talking points every half hour. Just sayin'.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 21, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

Stupak is the Judas of the Pro-Life movement. How many more fetuses will be sent to the dump because of him? Stupak now owns this health care abortion bill.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 8:50 PM | Report abuse

There are still 4 undeclared. They must be "spares". Boucher, Costello, Davis, Lipinski.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 8:47 PM | Report abuse

Tonight will MAKE HISTORY AS THE GREATEST ABUSE OF POWER IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

Obama will probably be impeached over this.


The American People do NOT want this bill - why the democrats are insisting on pushing something on the American People which they have CLEARLY STATED THEY DO NOT WANT - who knows why.


The American People are completely sick of Obama - and they will take it out on the democrats in November.

Somehow Obama thinks the American People will forget - the American People are NOT going to forget this one.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 8:46 PM | Report abuse

As I said, this will be tied up in the courts now.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Today Obama has destroyed the moderate wing of the democratic party - those moderates are going to leave the party... forever. The independents will NEVER TRUST ANOTHER DEMOCRAT.


Obama has to remember that he made pledges to the American People in 2008 - that he would pursue BIPARTISANSHIP - AND WITH THAT PLEDGE OBAMA PROMISED CENTRIST POLICIES.


OBAMA is BREAKING HIS WORD TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE - FOR THIS HE WILL BE DRIVEN FROM OFFICE - THE DEMOCRATS WILL LOSE THEIR MAJORITIES IN CONGRESS - AND THEY WILL BE CAST ASIDE INTO THE POLITICAL WILDERNESS FOR DECADES.

Delude yourselves all you want.


The American People do NOT want this bill. Obama is hoping you will forget. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL NEVER FORGET.


so, enjoy yourselves.

Really, enjoy yourselves and do all the cheerleading you want.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 8:42 PM | Report abuse

Hear, hear Dr. Price.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

sounds like a lot more whining over there. Why don't you try more posts in all caps next time. How is that prediction that HC will never pass going so far? Have you and zouk put some more money into shorting the outcome? You guys are running out of time to place your bets.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Your 45 seconds are up, Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Today Obama has destroyed the moderate wing of the democratic party - those moderates are going to leave the party... forever. The independents will NEVER TRUST ANOTHER DEMOCRAT.

Obama has to remember that he made pledges to the American People in 2008 - that he would pursue BIPARTISANSHIP - AND WITH THAT PLEDGE OBAMA PROMISED CENTRIST POLICIES.

OBAMA is BREAKING HIS WORD TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE - FOR THIS HE WILL BE DRIVEN FROM OFFICE - THE DEMOCRATS WILL LOSE THEIR MAJORITIES IN CONGRESS - AND THEY WILL BE CAST ASIDE INTO THE POLITICAL WILDERNESS FOR DECADES.


Delude yourselves all you want.

The American People do NOT want this bill. Obama is hoping you will forget. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL NEVER FORGET.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Proud Republican, huh, cannula?

Name one thing about the GOP one could be proud of.

And spare us the Reagan-era Big Government crap. That's 30yo rhetoric and stale.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 8:29 PM | Report abuse

"hem Leichtman AKA MR Wizard- WHO is providing the Reformed HealthCare and why shouldn't we consider that the 138 billion in savings excludes the additional RAISE in Fees that Obama PROMISED Health Care Providers?

"Looks like" you're in denial too..."

my point is that the CBO doesn't score provisions that are not actually in the bill even though that is precisely what the GOP wants. The GOP loves the CBO when it supports their position, despise them when it contradicts them. What faux outrage.

The doctor fix as it is called will need to be dealt with and will cost reportedly $208 billion. When it happens, and it will, if the Ds don't have offsets to pay for it I will agree with you then but it is preposterous to try and use that in the CBO numbers today. A public option was also proposed but not included; by your's and the GOP logic the CBO should also have scored the plan with any cost for a public option. Interesting that we didn't hear the GOP whine when Medicare Part D was scored; also interesting that when the 2001 tax cut was passed not one cent of it was was paid for by the GOP in Congress and we didn't hear even a whimper. Its selective/faux outrage once again by the GOP.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 8:18 PM | Report abuse

"Wait, had he lost our VP would have been your John Edwards!

Posted by: thecannula"

or Joseph Liebermann! Haha that was quite the nadir in running mates.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Shrink, it doesn't have to be just one reason for your happiness. You got the bill and not to mention some incredible ball games. Yeah, our brackets are shot, but man, this has been one of the most exciting tournaments.

But I'm really, really excited about this bill. There's just something in the air. This is going to be historical.

I was watching the video of Obama's speech yesterday to the House. He is really caught up in this. His voice starts shaking six minutes into the speech. Given how Obama's mother died, you get the sense that this is really meaningful to him on a deeply personal level. That he is finishing that battle.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/35962986#35962986

Here it is again.

Ok, time for a run. Vote is scheduled an hour from now. At least it was. Any new news on this?

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 8:01 PM | Report abuse

cannula,

Well, I was trying to be inclusive. You have ideas, you want reform, I just thought it would be obvious that the R's are not into reform.

So, I have an idea for you. Instead of me going to Sweden (actually I'm Norwegian), you could go to, mmm, say, Yemen. I hear the government there really leaves you alone. I'll go to Norway when the R's are in power.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 8:00 PM | Report abuse

OK You happy fellows, I am off to dinner with the family- keep happily suckling at the Teet of Big Government- we'll all keep footing the bill.....

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse

OK You happy fellows, I am off to dinner with the family- keep happily suckling at the Teet of Big Government- we'll al keep footing the bill.....

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse

It's a hell of a time for the R's to portray themselves as the Party of Status Quo.

Healthcare--costs soaring, unemployed = uninsured, Anthem BC puts out 40% premium increases and says f*ck you.

Banking--banks nearly take the world economy down, millions losing their home, credit card companies jacking rates up to 30%.

And the GOP has got themselves stuck in the OFF position. Until they get unstuck, and quit hoping that the Democrats will look bad, they're taking a hell of a chance. If the R's get back into control of Congress, we all know they'll sit on their hands. The only action they'd be willing to take is to undo legislation.

We'll have to watch what the Democrats success with HCR does to the polls. I'm betting that the President's job approval will go up.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

oh, so Shrink2- Jessie Jackson Jr. Didn't try to but Obama's seat because you think I'm angry? Lie down and let me know why your sense of denial is so pervasive in your persona witch doctor?

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 6:23 PM | Report abuse

********

Testing , testing...Is this thing on?

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 7:48 PM | Report abuse

...whoa, someone just sold over 100 shares at 85. Someone really thinks this is going to fail."

Speaking of science, there are other possibilities.

I can't figure out why I am so darn happy tonight. My wife and kids don't do politics and they are too. It is just a great Sunday evening, mmmmmmm.

Good night to all of you,

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 7:45 PM | Report abuse

thecannula,

Your ideas aren't bad. Join the party of solutions instead of the party of no-can-do. It's a lot better to be part of the solution. Really.

******************
128- The difference between our country and European Socialist democracies is that we were founded by people fleeing an all powerful central government who sought to control every aspect of their lives. They wrote a Constitution outlining the responsibilities of American Government- promoting Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness _***Not life, liberty, AND Happiness.*** I believe in limited government and I pay taxes , donate my time and contributions to charity, and participate in religious institutions to further this goal.
If you want a government that does everything for you that you can't or won't do for yourself remain a Democrat or go to Sweden to live when the pendulum swings back to my Party. I am a proud Republican....despite the mistakes our party made in electing GW Bush-
Wait, had he lost our VP would have been your John Edwards!

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

whoa, someone just sold over 100 shares at 85. Someone really thinks this is going to fail.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 7:37 PM | Report abuse

Next problem for Republicans,
how to stop losing.

If I were them...

I'd have a good look in the mirror.

Also, I think they have to get rid of Michael Steele and they have to run not walk away from the TEA people.

Otherwise, not for the first or last time,

I'd like to give The Scream out to Howard Dean, he knows how to lose and he knows how to win. The amazing Democrat (tee hee) comeback would not have happened without him.

The Republicans need to find some people with personal integrity to lead them.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 7:34 PM | Report abuse

Drindl, this will definitely change things in November. This will go a long way to closing the enthusiasm gap. For young voters, this could be the most important legislation in their lifetimes. This is going to excite voters who were feeling disillusioned by failure of the Dems to get much done.

Whee, extra five minutes of basketball!

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 7:33 PM | Report abuse

Ahem Leightman AKA MR Wizard- WHO is providing the Reformed HealthCare and why shouldn't we consider that the 138 billion in savings excludes the additional RAISE in Fees that Obama PROMISED Health Care Providers?

"Looks like" you're in denial too...

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Ahem Leightman AKA MR Wizard- WHO is providing the Reformed HealthCare and whgy shouldn't we consider that the 138 billion in savings excludes the additional RAISE in Fees that Obama PROMISED Health Care Providers?

"Looks like" you're in denial too...

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

do I need to school you on the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution?

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

67 votes is the precise number required to override a certain POTUS veto. Get it, aint going to happen. Or are you delusional enough to believe that Obama would not veto(presuming which is still unlikely R control of the Senate) any idiotic attempt to defund a bill that has not even happened yet; would happen in a nanosecond.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

The simple budget process is needed to fund the government agencies to implement the program - so all is needed is a majority in ONE HOUSE OF CONGRESS to REFUSE TO FUND THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE BILL.


See what happens when you abandon bipartisanship??? It's your own fault.

And don't forget that there are 38 states which are going to Court to opposed various provisions - the UNFUNDED MANDATES ARE GOING TO BE TESTED AS WELL.

So, this is the beginning.


The American People do NOT want this bill - and a program like this has NEVER survived in the history of the country without bipartisan support. The democrats are headed towards HEAVY LOSSES THIS FALL, NOT JUST IN CONGRESS, BUT ON THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVELS - EVERYONE NOW IS COMPLETELY SICK OF OBAMA - two years and ten months to go to see him gone.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 7:25 PM | Report abuse

looks like 37th is in such denial about his totally wrong predictions about the failure of HC, that he is back to spamming this site. I have no problem rationally debating issues of the day, but the WP needs to put a stop to 37th type constact spamming posts, its destroying his legitimacy and this site, and should not be tolerated. Sometimes posts accidentally get reposted but his are deliberate efforts to spam this site. enough is enough already with that type of garbage.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

David Frum, former Bush speechwriter and R strategist:

"Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But:

(1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.

(2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.

So far, I think a lot of conservatives will agree with me. Now comes the hard lesson:

A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves.

At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.

Only, the hardliners overlooked a few key facts: Obama was elected with 53% of the vote, not Clinton’s 42%. The liberal block within the Democratic congressional caucus is bigger and stronger than it was in 1993-94. And of course the Democrats also remember their history, and also remember the consequences of their 1994 failure.

This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994."

Posted by: drindl | March 21, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

leichtman1

Where do you get 67 votes from ??? The simple budget process is needed to fund the government agencies to implement the program - so all is needed is a majority in ONE HOUSE OF CONGRESS to REFUSE TO FUND THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE BILL.

See what happens when you abandon bipartisanship??? It's your own fault.


And don't forget that there are 38 states which are going to Court to opposed various provisions - the UNFUNDED MANDATES ARE GOING TO BE TESTED AS WELL.


So, this is the beginning.

The American People do NOT want this bill - and a program like this has NEVER survived in the history of the country without bipartisan support. The democrats are headed towards HEAVY LOSSES THIS FALL, NOT JUST IN CONGRESS, BUT ON THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVELS - EVERYONE NOW IS COMPLETELY SICK OF OBAMA - less than three years to go to see him gone.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 7:20 PM | Report abuse

"Well you have been writing a dissertation, a writing style in which understatement is overwrought. "

hahahahaha, yeah, this is so true. There are a few pieces of data for which the appropriate description is "ZOMG THIS IS SO F*CKING COOL"

but apparently that type of language is frowned upon in scientific writing.

I went to the store and I think people thought I was a doctor since I was wearing my scrub pants. Good number of people asking about the bill. They like it, obviously.

This Pitt game is looking like a wild finish.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 7:19 PM | Report abuse

@12BB: also pointless and boring.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 21, 2010 7:17 PM | Report abuse


Next year, this health care bill will be DE-FUNDED - so it can not be implemented - and then it will be REPEALED.


All the democrats have done is hurt themselves - they think they are banging the Republicans over the head with the health care bill, but in reality they are doing the opposite.


In addition, 38 states have said they will file suit against parts of the health care bill - INCLUDING THE UNFUNDED MANDATES. November will be difficult for the democrats.

OUCH OUCH.

This is not a party for the democrats - it is the beginning of an extremely difficult road which will LEAD ONLY TO DECADES IN THE POLITICAL WILDERNESS.

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

The same old thuggish crap... cheered on by rethuglican 'leadership'


"Speaking with TPMDC's Brian Beutler shortly after I chatted with him, Frank recounted a story of an anti-reform protester in the House viewing gallery who had to be led off by security after the protester became disruptive.

Frank said that as the protester was being led away, Republican members on the floor began cheering him on loudly. Frank said the scene was a shock.

"I've never seen members of the house cheering on a guy resisting being kicked out of the chamber," he said. "It's a dangerous situation and The republicans are cheering him on."

Frank told me that the Republican tactics are not just limited to protesters. When I asked him when exactly he'll know the final tally of Democratic votes for reform. Frank said he didn't know, and wouldn't until much later in the day thanks to the GOP

"See, the problem is, I think they're planning to kill their parents and claim they're orphans," he said of his Republican colleagues.

"We were hoping to have the vote in the early evening, but they're going to delay and it's going to be late when we have the vote," he said, "and they're going to denounce the fact that the vote was taken in the middle of the night."

"But if they delay it," he said, "that's...I mean, that's just a Republican plan to slow it down."

Posted by: drindl | March 21, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

wow the bill hasn't even passed and the GOPers here are already making up new delusional predictions. 37th. for 2 weeks you have been spamming this site insisting that Speaker Pelosi could not get HC passed in Congress. Didn't take you long to move into that world of denial. Since you are getting your wonderful predictions destroyed tonight its not surprising you would immediately deny you ever made such predictions and start on some new dellusional arguments. Tonight you now claim you have 67 votes to defund a bill that hasn't yet passed. How noble of you.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse


I have found that whenever the words "historic" and "history" is tossed around, the event is soon forgotten.

So, don't be so sure of yourself.


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 7:07 PM | Report abuse

thecannula,

You're like Cinderella at 1 minute past midnight. The slippers are gone, the coach is gone, the ball is over. There's no point in carrying on over how the slippers pinched your toes.

I mean it, if you really believe in reform, join with the folks who are willing to do something. And then, get your ideas incorporated. You'll never get the R's to incorporate any of your ideas.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Next year, this health care bill will be DE-FUNDED - so it can not be implemented - and then it will be REPEALED.

All the democrats have done is hurt themselves - they think they are banging the Republicans over the head with the health care bill, but in reality they are doing the opposite.

In addition, 38 states have said they will file suit against parts of the health care bill - INCLUDING THE UNFUNDED MANDATES. November will be difficult for the democrats.


OUCH OUCH.


This is not a party for the democrats - it is the beginning of an extremely difficult road which will LEAD ONLY TO DECADES IN THE POLITICAL WILDERNESS.


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

I am not reforming anything. The D Congress is. Get over it, stop whining, the GOP is irrelevant.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

your vaunted mal practice reform according to a study by the exTexas Insurance Commissioner accounts for less than 1% of the cost of HC; and since the wonderful Texas caps have been enacted in 2003, diagnostic testing in Texas has gone up as have our HC premiums, increases larger than many other states. Any other nonsense you wish to post? Stop whining. Rs couldn't get a HC reform out of committee in 8 years of total control of all branches of Congress. Not even Congressional Committees where Rs had total control of their makeups. No one is taking the GOP seriously about HC. Its over move on and start whining about the next national issue where the GOP will once again be found to be IRRELEVANT.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 7:02 PM | Report abuse

thecannula,

Your ideas aren't bad. Join the party of solutions instead of the party of no-can-do. It's a lot better to be part of the solution. Really.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

Leichtman- what are you reforming HEALTH CARE- WHO PROVIDES THE HC? OH, so we shouldn't look behind the curtain Mr. Wizard?

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 6:56 PM | Report abuse

When everyone in the country realizes that Obama has LITTLE IN HIS HEALTH CARE BILL WHICH ACTUALLY REDUCES COSTS, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE ANGRY AT OBAMA.


IN FACT, it appears that the additional mandates on the insurance companies will actually cause premiums to RISE IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

This bill is not a result of the normal negotiations between the House and Senate - it is a pathwork of provision and "fixes" which really do not hang together.

The bill is a mess.


The bill is going to cause great damage to the democratic party - and to Obama - the American People will suffer until we can get rid of this mess.

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 6:56 PM | Report abuse

12Bar- Let's start with a panel of expert physicians in each medical field cutting the waste out of their CPT codes as currently funded with the penalty of Obamacare if the results don't cover a significant percent (not all- Obamacare doesn't cover all either) of currently uncovered Americans. Next let Medicare bargain directly with Pharmaceutical companies to add to these savings. Finally let's examine true tort reform to significantly reduce the high cost of defensive medicine. Preexisting condition and fraud reforms as currently being adopted should also be part of reasonable HC reform- Insurance companies would gladly go along with the threat of Obamacare removed-

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 6:54 PM | Report abuse

"By the way how does this bill save 138 billion over the first 10 years when the raise Obama promised Primary Care physicians is not figured in?"

simply b/c the bipartisan CBO says so. Apparently you would like to include a cost for a service that is not in the bill. Nice try but no one is buying your party's irrelevancy any longer and constant whining. game/set/match

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 6:53 PM | Report abuse

@DDAWD: indeed, that banking reform bill is going to be unbelievably popular. The public will be reminded *again* that the GOP thinks everything is fine as it is and the Democrats are the only ones willing to look out for the "the least, the last and the lost..." and the recent recession has shown that the group needing protection can encompass an awful lot of people.

So far the GOP has been unwilling to take an active look at unemployment (except to complain that the Democrats aren't doing enough about it), banking oversight (they like the way the free market redistributes wealth so swiftly), the budget deficit (they want to lower taxes that are already as low as they have been in a long time), credit card and college loan reform (no abuse there), and HCR (they just wanted to talk about it a few more years so they would feel more comfortable voting against it).

The Grand Old Party of Got Nothing.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 21, 2010 6:50 PM | Report abuse

@DDAWD: indeed, that banking reform bill is going to be unbelievably popular. The public will be reminded *again* that the GOP thinks everything is fine as it is and the Democrats are the only ones willing to look out for the "the least, the last and the lost..." and the recent recession has shown that the group needing protection can encompass an awful lot of people.

So far the GOP has been unwilling to take an active look at unemployment (except to complain that the Democrats aren't doing enough about it), banking oversight (they like the way the free market redistributes wealth so swiftly), the budget deficit (they want to lower taxes that are already as low as they have been in a long time), credit card and college loan reform (no abuse there), and HCR (they just wanted to talk about it a few more years so they would feel more comfortable voting against it).

The Grand Old Party of Got Nothing.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 21, 2010 6:50 PM | Report abuse

OMG, are we going to do the Battle of the Lists again? Your guys are worse than our guys...no, YOUR guys are worse...

Boring and pointless.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 6:49 PM | Report abuse

interesting I had that very discussion with the CEO of Cadillac/Fairchild while in Canmore last summer. His comment about America's lack of HC was that he felt sorry for Americans who he felt were operating at a competitive business disadvantage to Canadina companies, he was very happy with his company's HC premiums and told me that he and his employees had no problems with the canadian system, other than having to wait an extra 30 days to get knee replacements, but hey what does he know, he is only the CEO of the largest Canadian real estate company, obviously just another socialist to you. In any event the new US HC system is market driven an unlike Canada's which has a public option component.

These words posted were right on the mark; after tonight Rs will be viewed as IRRELEVANT.


"One fascinating aspect of all this that isn't sufficiently appreciated, I think, is that the Republicans are showing themselves to be completely irrelevant to the functioning of present-day America.

It isn't simply that the Democratic agenda is being enacted. It is being enacted over unanimous Republican opposition, and despite all the unethical tricks and machinations that the Republicans can come up with.

The Republicans had a chance to be part of the process -- indeed, as has been often pointed out, hundreds of Republicans amendments and ideas are, in fact, included in the Health Care Bill. But they decided, instead, to oppose, oppose, oppose, and to lie about everything connected with the reform.

They are proving themselves to be not only dishonest and hypocritical and obstructionist, but also ineffectual and, in the end, irrelevant"


Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

interesting I had that very discussion with the CEO of Cadillac/Fairchild while in Canmore last summer. His comment about America's lack of HC was that he felt sorry for Americans who he felt were operating at a competitive business disadvantage to Canadina companies, he was very happy with his company's HC premiums and told me that he and his employees had no problems with the canadian system, other than having to wait an extra 30 days to get knee replacements, but hey what does he know, he is only the CEO of the largest Canadian real estate company, obviously just another socialist to you. In any event the new US HC system is market driven an unlike Canada's which has a public option component.

These words posted were right on the mark; after tonight Rs will be viewed as IRRELEVANT.


"One fascinating aspect of all this that isn't sufficiently appreciated, I think, is that the Republicans are showing themselves to be completely irrelevant to the functioning of present-day America.

It isn't simply that the Democratic agenda is being enacted. It is being enacted over unanimous Republican opposition, and despite all the unethical tricks and machinations that the Republicans can come up with.

The Republicans had a chance to be part of the process -- indeed, as has been often pointed out, hundreds of Republicans amendments and ideas are, in fact, included in the Health Care Bill. But they decided, instead, to oppose, oppose, oppose, and to lie about everything connected with the reform.

They are proving themselves to be not only dishonest and hypocritical and obstructionist, but also ineffectual and, in the end, irrelevant"


Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 6:48 PM | Report abuse

The battlelines have been drawn. The Republicans have the American People on their side.


The democrats will go down in defeat on this one.


More importantly, the democrats have PROVEN that they can NOT BE TRUSTED TO GOVERN.


The American people have told the democrats time and time again that they do NOT want this health care plan - time and time again THE DEMOCRATS HAVE TURNED THEIR BACKS ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. If they ever put the democrats back in power in the future, you can assure yourself that they will try to jam a far-left-wing agenda down everyone's throat that no one wants.


Next spring, this bill will be DE-FUNDED - on its way to being REPEALED. The democrats are only hurting themselves today.


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Hey 37th-how about some examples?

Eric Massa?

Charles Rangel?

Jessie Jackson JR?

The Democrats don't like Republican platitudes....

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 6:42 PM | Report abuse

thecannula,

While we're stuck in denial here, wouldn't you like to take this opportunity to propose the HCR you want. Maybe we can take up the debate, you know pros and cons, and all that stuff.

Oh, BTW, you missed the memo on going to India for medical care. That's not in the future. That's been happening here in the U.S. for at least 5 years. Some insurance companies have it written into their policies.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

The battlelines have been drawn. The Republicans have the American People on their side.


The democrats will go down in defeat on this one.


More importantly, the democrats have PROVEN that they can NOT BE TRUSTED TO GOVERN.

If they ever put the democrats back in power in the future, you can assure yourself that they will try to jam a far-left-wing agenda down everyone's throat that no one wants.

Next spring, this bill will be DE-FUNDED - on its way to being REPEALED. The democrats are only hurting themselves today.

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Hey Leichtman, the W in GW stood for our waterloo....this is YOUR Waterloo ...once we get the same healthcare as Canada, and Americans, as well as Canadians, have to travel elsewhere...where?...India?...for high quality healthcare.....Too Old for a Kidney transplant?- your democrat dominated government will decide.
By the way how does this bill save 138 billion over the first 10 years when the raise Obama promised Primary Care physicians is not figured in? ...ooops, page The Duke of Wellington.

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 6:34 PM | Report abuse

this is truly hilarious:

"Former Bush speechwriter David Frum says that while he opposes the health care reform plan, its passage will represent a major defeat for the Republican Party. In his words, it will be the GOP’s "Waterloo."

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 6:26 PM | Report abuse

oh, so Shrink2- Jessie Jackson Jr. Didn't try to but Obama's seat because you think I'm angry? Lie down and let me know why your sense of denial is so pervasive in your persona witch doctor?

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Denial and rage
Rage and denial.

Republicans have to learn to suffer losing
in a healthy way. You accept losses and you learn from them. Raging against losing is not a winning strategy, denial is for little kids, addicts and crazy people.

Republicans have to figure out how to get the American moderate to like them. Rank animals are not likable.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans will win the election this November, think they are that upset about that ???


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 6:06 PM
---------------------------------
Did you ever think you'd see the day when 37th is at a loss for words? What's up with this "???". And all the blank lines. You're losing your mojo, man.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 6:14 PM | Report abuse

The battlelines have been drawn. The Republicans have the American People on their side.

The democrats will go down in defeat on this one.

More importantly, the democrats have PROVEN that they can NOT BE TRUSTED TO GOVERN.


If they ever put the democrats back in power in the future, you can assure yourself that they will try to jam a far-left-wing agenda down everyone's throat that no one wants.


Next spring, this bill will be DE-FUNDED - on its way to being REPEALED. The democrats are only hurting themselves today.

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Who is the Democrats choice to preside as acting Speaker over Health Care Reform Debate? Do you Remember who tried to Purchase Obama's Seat? Is this a consolation prize?

From Daily Telegraph 12/10/08-


Jesse Jackson Jr, the son of the civil rights campaigner, was yesterday named as the mysterious "Candidate 5" at the centre of the investigation.
The alleged involvement of the congressman - who denies he is 'candidate 5' - in the allegations against Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich threatens to drag Mr Obama into the corruption inquiry.

Related Articles
Barack Obama's energy and environment advisers 'revealed'
Profile: Jesse Jackson Jr
Chicago's new 'Untouchable'
Illinois to stage election to choose new senator
Profile: Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich
Jesse Jackson Jr implicated in senate scandal
Mr Jackson, 43, was a key member of Mr Obama's presidential campaign team and Mr Obama's wife Michelle has close personal links to the Jackson family.
Mr Blagojevich stands accused of attempting to 'sell' Mr Obama's vacant Senate seat in return for a cabinet position, ambassadorship, well-paid union job or a place on a lucrative company board for his wife.
After initially saying it would be "inappropriate" for him to comment fully on the scandal, Mr Obama, who built the foundations of his successful White House run in Chicago, called on Mr Blagojevich to resign.

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Latest excitement from RCP. They have discovered the solution. Somehow, the bills are not the same and the whole thing is a big mistake and just blew up.

Direct quote: "Oh man. .that's hysterical. . . .as I said. . .someone tell Obama to go on vacation. It ain't happenin'. . . . ."

We could take some lessons on drama from the RCP posters. Our conservative guys are milquetoast.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans will win the election this November, think they are that upset about that ???


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

For Noacoaler-

The UK means the United Kingdom

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Kanjorski yes.

218 yes
4 undeclared

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler, I just mean relatively unpopular. Banking regulation is going to be far more popular.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Let's see how much gloating we have here tonight.
---------------------------------
And I was just thinking how much we are not rubbing it in. And you heap more curses on us, more just-wait-until [fill in the blank].

Seems like a strange stance to take for someone who spent months claiming to know the minds of Stupak, Pelosi, Obama and every Congressman, every tactic, every strategy, every nuance, past, present and future.

What is this, another example of how this is a big conspiracy to undermine YOUR predictions?


Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

"People talk about the cost to Democrats, but I'd have to think this [will] cost the Republicans some political capital."

Well you have been writing a dissertation, a writing style in which understatement is overwrought.

Yes, they are going to lose big on this loss.

This was their show of force,
the Republicans went all in
and lost.

Lose, lost, loss, losing losers and to be sure, playing victim is not an option for people who yell N!igger as they spit on black people the day before the vote.

This bill is HUGE and I don't use Caps Lock, not much anyway.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

@thecannula: you're all over the road here.  Making about as much sense as 37th.  Are we back to death panels?  Why don't you go stock up on ammo like the rest of the befuddled bigots.

@DDAWD: I don't buy into the unpopularity of HCR.  I think that's mostly a manufactured statistic based on combining disappointment from people like me at the absence of an insurance-killing option with disgruntlement from paranoids who hear the whopwhopwhop of black helicopter blades in the great "government takeover."  I think this will be a body blow to GOP oppositionalism because they threw everything they had at this, so did the corporations, and still they lost.
Do you see any sign of GOP pragmatism on the way?  Neither do I.

They're going to dig their own graves deeper opposing financial reform too; even some of the baggers are going to be on board with that.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 5:53 PM | Report abuse

that will only happen if Lyndsey Graham promotes that which is doubtful.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

The next Obama plan is to get a way for all the illegal aliens to get citizenship - and a way to get onto the health care plan subsidies.


The pro-illegal alien people are already marching on the Mall in Washington today.

Ouch.

Let's see how much gloating we have here tonight.


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Over at our cousin-blog, RCP, conservative posters have given up on the Paper Revolution apparently. Now they are trying to figure out how to put a grenade in a Waterman pen for the President's signing ceremony. Some have volunteered for duty, others are busy sanding off their fingertips.

A direct quote: "ROTFLMAO. . . . jeeezuzmaryjoseph. . that's hysterical. . .apparently, this bill isn't going to become law."

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if Republicans will cool it with their total obstructionism after this. People talk about the cost to Democrats, but I'd have to think this cost the Republicans some political capital. Health care has been debated for a year. That means Republicans were obstructing it for a year. Some Republicans can keep obstructing forever, but others can't. Republicans went all in in trying to block this in attempting to repeat 1994.

And this might be the most unpopular bill the Dems will probably try to pass this year. Unless they start working on CapnTrade this year, they will probably be working on jobs bills and banking regulation which will be far more popular than HCR. Can Republicans continue to go all-in in obstructing these as well?

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

As I watch the Democrats run the show on CSPAN, I can't help but blame CORPORATE AMERICA for over funding George W Bush over the deserved candidate of the time John McCain. Can you imagine how much higher the status of the Republican Party might have climbed without GW and Sarah Palin? But, you say, it was McCain who gave us Palin...true, but it was a "Hail Mary" in a desperate attempt to overcome the flood of antiBush sentiment the GOP suffered following GW. So, Obama was ushered in for Change...when your mother's doctor tells you that the government won't approve her kidney transplant, based on age, (see the UK- the "public option" is not far behind this transition step), don't blame Obama or Pelosi, blame IBM, GM, and Fedex, for backing GW Bush and making Nancy Pelosi the Speaker of the House and Barack Obama President.

Posted by: thecannula | March 21, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

I am not a leftie but not sure why they should be required to act with humility.Especially after the racial, sexual and degrading spitting by their opponents yesterday. As usual they turned the other cheek yesterday, when they easily could have complained otherwise about that truly dispicable behavior by members of the radical right. In reality I expect the Ds and Pelosi to immediately pivot to Banking Reform and more economic stimulus debates next week. You see Ds are not ideologues, they are pragmatists who work to get good policies enacted, even when it means having to compromise with their conservative anti choice members. Curious how many members in the R party aside from the 2 Maine Senators can claim they are pro-choice and have a voice in the R party? I expect an impressive signing ceremony honoring Ted and Vicky Kennedy next week and then moving on to make sure that our banking system survives the deregulation policies that almost brought the world economy to its knees. Corker and Dodd will definitely need to reach a truce on banking reform, the sooner the better. No time for pravado or humility, there are much more positive achievments that need to be accomplished b/w Monday and November. Voters will soon realize that Ds are the party of grownups that get good things done for this country.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 5:27 PM | Report abuse

"I think I agree, but I sure don't know very many of them.

Posted by: shrink2 "

Probably depends on location. I've spent almost my entire adult life in North Carolina, Texas, and Louisiana.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

37th wrote: Anyway - this battle is far from over
-----------------------------------------
In the caldron boil and bake;
Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,

Eye of newt? Eye of newt? Anything but eye of Newt.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

So if you buy at 98.7, given the 3 cent service charge and the 10 cent fee for winning, you make no money if you win. I wonder if intrade people know that. People are buying for 98.5 for a potential profit of 2 cents per share.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

November, huh

I think Democrats' fortunes just took a big jump.

Anyone who thinks voters are going to side with insurance companies was already a Republican and that's like 20% at most.

Suck it up, 37th, suck. It. Up.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Donnelly yes.

217 yes
6 undeclared

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 5:20 PM | Report abuse

According to the WaPo count, Cao is still a no. It has Stupak listed as a yes, so it's been changed to reflect the deal.

Not surprising. There was no deal. Obama's exec order does nothing. Cao isn't making a political decision. Nothing changed for him.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Have a Coke and a smile, 37th.

To wash down your crow

Noacoler
Corvus corax

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

"So most Republicans aren't batsh*t crazy like the teabaggers or Republican politicians. They just don't know better."

I think I agree, but I sure don't know very many of them.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 5:16 PM | Report abuse

I don't see how jamming a health care bill down the throats of Americans is any victory - we will see how it goes in November - when the democrats will surely have massive losses.

Obama may regret this move.

Anyway - this battle is far from over - and next spring will be a great deal more telling than today.


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Man, this is one of the worst brackets I've ever had in my life. My sweet 16 is 6-7 so far. Duke, Purdue, and Pittsburgh are the only ones left. I don't remember the last time I was below 50% for the sweet 16. Although I guess if those three teams win, I'll be 9-7.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

We will see if Obama and the leftists on this blog act with any humility.

Or will they show their character flaws.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

hopefully zouk is still out there shorting HC on intra trade. Hope they hurry up, they are running out of time to get their trades in.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 5:12 PM | Report abuse

what happened with Maryland?? I thought they were done!"

16 State turnovers.

Cory Lucious is going to have some bruises, he got assaulted by his team after that shot.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Oh look. The righties have left the building en masse.

Awaiting their new Sanctioned Talking Points emails, them they'll be back, all using the same words and phrases, like a school if little fish all changing direction at once in a flash of silver scales.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Where is There-Will-be-Blood Jake and They-Don't-Have-the-Votes 37th? Skulking around? Hanging around your cauldron muttering "double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and caldron bubble."

Now is the time to man up. Also, it's time to cover those shorts on Intrade. Actually, it's past time.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Shrink, I know a lot of Republicans too. Mainly the same. You know, regular people who grew up thinking one way. They can gloss over the talking points like lower taxes and stuff. But it was mainly they just grew up hearing it and never really questioned it. Maybe that's a fault, but it's a long way from being a teabagger. My girlfriend actually voted for Bush in 2004. Why? Because her dad did. But then worked her ass off canvassing for Obama in 2008.

But if we spent more time talking politics as a culture, Republicans would drop to 10% of the population. It's just that people generally don't talk about politics, so the myths persist.

Howard Dean gave an interesting example when he came to New Orleans two years ago. You see a guy with a pickup truck, a gun rack, and a Bible on the dashboard. He's most likely a Republican, right? But you take the same guy, same truck, same gun rack, same Bible and say that he's in a union. He's most likely a Democrat. Why? Because they have meetings, they talk to each other about politics, they know that Dems support their interests far better than Republicans do.

So most Republicans aren't batsh*t crazy like the teabaggers or Republican politicians. They just don't know better.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

@shrink2: no reason to doubt you ., but I never ever run into Republicans who aren't frothing angry bigots. I mean never, not one.

Maybe once in a year I'll see someone with a right wing message Tshirt on the gym floor, mostly I get righties delivering commentary in the baths to whoever might be in earshot. They hate me. They're so easy to out-debate, just stay on the beam.

"WHO is advocating HCR for illegals?"

they they they

"WAITING FOR A NAME, CHAMP!"

I've actually shut down a few of them, like the Lieberman clone who no longer does the Limbaugh Proxy thing...

... at least not when I'm around.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

for months we have been telling jake that Stupak would end up voting for HC and that Obama is serious that the Hyde Amendment would stand. What we heard from the R radicals was that if HC passes there would be blood in the streets and the world would quickly come to an end. My guess is that tomorrow we will now hear from jake and his band of radicals that Stupak sold out and their metaphoric knives will now be aimed at defeating Congressman Stupak. What these radical Rs don't understand is that the D party is truly a big tent and that is precisely why they will continue to control Congress after elections in Nov. Surely that is gnawing at them today.

Posted by: leichtman1 | March 21, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Wow, that was jaw dropping...

And a brilliant career comes to a close. It's been fun watching UNC play against Grievis Vasquez the last few years.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Noa I have known many Republicans in distance running. Mostly ex-military, they tend to be intense, competitive and very friendly. Many are volunteer firefighters and the like. Salt of the earth great guys. I have seen no sign of slime, personal integrity is a big deal for them. They don't know anything about the stuff coming from the right on the web, unless they live double lives. They seem, dare I say it naive, just hard working, square jawed, blue eyed innocents. We ignore each others' other choices we only run together. But I don't mind being around them at all, nor they me. It must be a lot meaner in other parts of the country.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Whoa, what happened with Maryland?? I thought they were done!

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

We should all raise a glass in congratulations to our President for this historic victory. This is MAJOR.

Goodbye ineffectuality, goodbye bipartisan impulses, goodbye serious losses in November, goodbye pre-existing conditions.

A great day to be an American.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Well, Cao was the only Republican to vote for the bill the first time. I do think that if he votes against it, it will be a principled vote. I disagree with him, but I do think he thinks he's doing the right thing. He said he was perfectly willing to be the only Republican to vote for it (which he was the first time)

But I let him know that me and like two dozen other people will vote for him if he votes for this bill. There's no political incentive to do since the district is pretty liberal. I just think I should reward him for doing the right thing. I don't know if it will make a difference. Cao might be resigned to losing the seat. He won't be running against William Jefferson this year.

But I do think if he doesn't vote for the bill. It's his principles. This isn't like Stupak's district. We really want this bill.

I don't think Cao's vote will matter, but it was a source of pride for me that my representative was the only Republican to vote for it. It would be cool to have him vote for it again for that reason. But I really doubt he will. I think Stupak wanted to save face. I don't think that is the issue with Cao.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

My count:

216 yes
7 undeclared

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

It is a great day to be a Democrat. Only Democrats will be in the Winner's Circle. The Republicans will be skulking around the edges muttering curses.

FDR would be proud.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Joseph Cao... I have the same last name in Vietnamese, prudently removing the tone mark I get as a straight traslation... wonder if ge or any other Republican is going to break ranks and do the right thing? Yeah, fancy that.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Waterloo is here... with Jim DeMint as Napoleon and President Obama as Wellington. Suck it up, Gomers.

(queueing up Beethoven "Wellington's Victory")

The abortion restriction can ne removed at a later date, hopefully soon. And the public option restored. Goodbye, Anthem. See you in prison.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

"Ithaca is such a depressing town."

It is. I know an ornithologist who went to Cornell to pile it higher and deeper. He got his PhD, but when he talks about Ithaca I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

It sounds like Buffalo, but without the high culture.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

So are all the Stupak bloc going to vote with Stupak no matter what? I wonder what Cao is going to do. He's pretty hung up on the abortion thing, but I do think he wants to vote for the bill.

Seems like Obama's executive order is pretty meaningless. "We're going to do what we've always done"

I think Stupak just wanted to save face.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Haha, I knew there was a reason those two schools accepted me. Ithaca is such a depressing town. I visited there during an October several years ago.

I guess Maryland's plan to score exactly 50 points isn't turning out to be that successful.

Looks like the WVa game is the only one worth watching now.

Someone just bought 28 shares at 97. That means he pays $9.73/share for a chance to make $9.90 That's a pretty thin margin.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

OT!
The Obamacare clock is back up with a day to go. Somebody is still trying to relieve Republicans of what was left of their savings.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Stupak is pathetic.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Stupak is going for the bill.


He carries about 6 votes.


The West Virginia Congressmen did not show up for the press conference - so we will have to see if there pro-choice Congressmen and Congresswomen say they will not vote it with this Stupak agreement. Quigley in Chicago is one Congressman who said he would do that.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Stupak is going for the bill.


He carries about 6 votes.


The West Virginia Congressmen did not show up for the press conference - so we will have to see if there pro-choice Congressmen and Congresswomen say they will not vote it with this Stupak agreement. Quigley in Chicago is one Congressman who said he would do that.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

The Obamacare clock was right.
Oh sorry, right on with the timing.

Where it said, you can stop Obamacare,
that was ridiculous. Do people really think they can control the health industry?

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

You know very well the real Ivy league schools wonder why they have to deal with those brutish savages, Cornell and Penn.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

White House announces Executive Order barring federal funding for Planned Parenthood and abortion. Stupak will vote for Obamacare.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Really? They are showing the Missouri/WVa game here. A good game, though.

When the hell did Ivy Leaguers learn to play sports???

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

The Obamacare clock says there is one minute until the government takes over health care.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Suzy

It appears that it is all going to come down to the Stupak language - and Stupak is having a news conference at 4 pm - so we will know then - Stupak has been going back and forth all day.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 3:52 PM


37, looks like a deal has been made. Stupak must have caved.

http://twitter.com/MPOTheHill

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

"are they not showing a minute of the Maryland game?"

DD, dunno, out here they are showing every minute of it. It is a good one. State looks tough.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

@12Bar: take it from a guy who does stay in shape; you won't see Republicans in gyms. NUH-uh. If they do go then it's straight back to the steam room and jacuzzi, never the weights.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 3:48 PM
-----------------------------
You have to watch this short video. It shows what the conservatives want to do, i.e. the Rocky Revolution.

www.burgs.net

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Suzy

It appears that it is all going to come down to the Stupak language - and Stupak is having a news conference at 4 pm - so we will know then - Stupak has been going back and forth all day.

If there is no Stupak agreement, they will likely postpone the vote until Wednesday.

The Hill.com has 39 no votes for the moment - so Nancy does not have the votes right now.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

"It wouldn't take too many billions to bring Obama down."

Oh Jake, you are getting in on the comedy too?

Thanks, yesterday was so serious with all that talk about nullification and the rise of the Stars and Bars. I know you are twisted up on the abortion issue, but do you realize who you are aligned with? People who rue the day when slavery became illegal, even after Shiloh and Antietam, Gettysburg, Cold Harbor after all that death, they fought back and then murdered, mutilated and bombed and burned people to death, these are your allies on the right, just so you know, just so you are sure you know who you are and what you are.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

are they not showing a minute of the Maryland game?

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

It wouldn't take too many billions to bring Obama down.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 3:41 PM
------------------------
You better hightail it over to RCP. They need your enthusiasm. After Mr. I've-Been-There-Done-That cooled the board down, the last idea was "Stay tuned".

Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Our conservatives don't hold a candle to those over at RCP. Every day, it's a new idea how to get even.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Someone nudge Jake's tone arm. He's skipping.

@12Bar: take it from a guy who does stay in shape; you won't see Republicans in gyms. NUH-uh. If they do go then it's straight back to the steam room and jacuzzi, never the weights.

And they won't risk prison either. They're just loudmouths.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

It wouldn't take too many billions to bring Obama down.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

@noa,

If we have to compare the possibility of the conservatives going to old gyms and becoming the new Rocky (hereinafter "Rocky Revolution")

vs

Organizing a bank run and suspending all their federal taxes (Paper Revolution),

I'd give a very slight edge to the Paper Revolution. Very slight.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

We knew Baird would vote yes,
he was coming at the problem from an outer space (lame duck), ideological position.
Legacy time.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Jake, hang it up. There's not going to be a civil war, there's not going to be a successful challenge by the states, there's not going to be a run on the banks.

If you need attention so badly then get a dog. But don't be surprised if he turns from you in disgust ... after successfully staring you down.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

More from RCP. This is the guy who tried this already:

"And contrary to you knowing someone who pays every 2 years, etc. . . . .I happen to "know" someone who went through it. . ok? Readin' between the lines here? Get it?

Understand what can/will happen to you if you try this. They don't tolerate stuff like that. And they make it very hard on people who try. And be prepared for a full 7 year assault besides the current year.

And I do happen to know people who went to jail (other reasons, mind you.) She was a tax preparer, and they decided to make an example of her. She did 7 years in a federal prison.

So don't kid yourself. Have your eyes wide open if you guys try to organize something like that."

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

'Course they never got far with their plans because every few seconds they had to recite their arsenals, lovingly detailing every gun, accessory, and add-on with full brand names and model numbers. What a hoot.
-------------------------------------
My screen has coffee spots all over it. I haven't laughed like that in years.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

It wouldn't take too many billions to create a run on the banks either.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

@12BarBlues: reminds me of Stormfront and the Terry Shiavo feeding-tube attack .. the goons were torquing themselves up all night screaming about the "liberal culture of death," and planning a raid on the hospital to rescue Shiavo.  Guess they had some idea she's be on her feet and running out with them.  'Course they never got far with their plans because every few seconds they had to recite their arsenals, lovingly detailing every gun, accessory, and add-on with full brand names and model numbers.  What a hoot.

In real life we both know they won't do squat.  Just like the trolls here, they'll make a lot of angry noise and tomorrow go back to yessir and nosir to their bosses.  And to the IRS.  Challenges by states will be perfunctorily dismissed as frivolous.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

The next idea has occurred to the paper revolution crowd on RCP.

Here it is: everyone withdraw all their money from the bank (create a run on the banks) so the IRS has nothing to freeze.

This is the call from the rallying poster: "If we're not even willing to risk paying a fine, we really don't deserve the freedoms our founders fought and died to give us."

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

I can tell you all this: the way the democrats have been USING the Catholic Bishops and the Catholic Nuns - parading them out as props - has been nothing short of disgusting and vulgar.

Obama is appalling.

This is unbelievable.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Yes goobs please by all means follow Counselor JakeD's advice and lie about your withholding tonthe IRS.

The government can use the money from your fines, and having hundreds of thousands of Republicans in prison would just rock. So many of them would have a great opportunity to address their homophobia and bigotry directly... face-on, in fact.

Gulp.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

As long as you have your employer take out the appropriate amount on your final paycheck of 2010, the IRS will count a fourth as quarterly payments. It wouldn't take too many billions to make the point.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Stupak confirms there's no agreement yet.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/88135-stupak-until-there-is-an-agreement-im-a-no-vote

I'm gonna send him a box of Godiva chocolates if he holds to a no vote.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

These guys on RCP don't give up easily.

Now the paper revolution crowd is arguing that they can make their banks block the IRS levy on their accounts. For sure, they will need the Browning to be the Convincer.

Then, the same guy says "trust me, at the push of a button, they levy and freeze, and your banks go along with anything they do, because your bank has no vested interest in fighting on your behalf."

Next idea? They are mulling it over.

My God, I feel like I'm eavesdropping at a meeting of idiots planning a crime.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Everyone getting a paycheck can immediately change federal exemptions. That would send a message.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 2:49 PM

JakeD, there isn't anyone left that's getting a paycheck. Didn't you hear about the unemployment rate?

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Change your withholding to 9 and turn this in to your employer tomorrow:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw4.pdf

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Maybe if GWB had tried to force every person in NYC who doesn't even own a car to purchase auto insurance via the IRS, those like broadwayjoe would understand the Constitutional nuances of such a mandate.

==

please explain the healthcare condition equivalent to not owning a car.

I would agree that acorppreal people should not have to buy health insurance, but they only exist in Greg Egan novels.

I will take "anyone else" or no response as an admission that you're full of beans.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse


The health care bill is the "Mother of All Unfunded Mandates"


Obama has not paid for the bill.


Obama has pushed off the COSTS ONTO EVERYONE ELSE. Obama is like a guy who gets everyone to go to a restaurant, and then makes everyone else pick up the check.


It is embarrassing.


Whether this bill goes through today or not, which is still undecided, it will NOT END TODAY. The bill will be DEFUNDED NEXT YEAR. The bill will be repealed. If the democrats think they are sticking something with the American People that they can never get rid of them, the democratic party will be finished forever.

And never forget, it wss the democrats who repealed the Civil Rights Act of 1875.

So the democrats aren't really heros for putting the Civil Rights Act of 1875 back in 90 years later.


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Latest whip count from TheHill (2:43 PM): likely no votes still hold at 39.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/85693-whip-watch-the-hills-survey-of-house-dems-positions-on-healthcare-

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


If you have your idea - how would Obama get the IRS to enforce the health care bill ???

You know if you don't cooperate with everything Obama's medical boards say, they will have the IRS go after you with penalties.

You are not going to like it - it is totalitarian.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

You can't make this stuff up.

More on the paper revolution. Poster says the IRS will just attach your accounts and take you to tax court where you have to pay the taxes and fines anyway to dispute it.

Then he says "Eh, don't ask me how I know this. . .ok?

Just take my word for it."

Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Everyone getting a paycheck can immediately change federal exemptions. That would send a message.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues

There appears to have been something going on with Stupak this morning, but now they say it is off. Don't have many of the details.

Obama really made a massive mistake not making sure the Stupak language was in the Senate bill.


It is the very definition of OVERREACH.

In addition, the amount of LYING which has gone on around the Hyde Amendment is appalling -


Obama LIED - everyone has to recognize that. If he didn't lie, there wouldn't be a dispute, would there ?

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Stupak still says he's a no vote (as of 15 minutes ago). No agreement yet.

http://twitter.com/MPOTheHill

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Bwahahaha!!!!

Latest idea on RCP. Let's have a "paper" revolution.

Here's the idea: "people just quit paying federal income taxes. Instantly, paychecks would go up. That would teach the feds".

Of course, there's only one little problem with that idea. How do you get your employer to go along with that idea? Maybe that's where the Browning comes in handy. Other than that, good to go.

Lenin would have never got his revolution off the ground with the great "strategeries" proposed by the Sour Grapes.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

TheHill's latest whip count shows 39 firm no, likely no, leaning no. That would kill the bill if it holds. There latest update was at 2:05 PM.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/85693-whip-watch-the-hills-survey-of-house-dems-positions-on-healthcare-

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Poor Hoya fan, seeded third they lose by 14 to the Bobcats, who then lose by 15 to the sixth seed Vols.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

The health care bill is the "Mother of All Unfunded Mandates"

Obama has not paid for the bill.

Obama has pushed off the COSTS ONTO EVERYONE ELSE. Obama is like a guy who gets everyone to go to a restaurant, and then makes everyone else pick up the check.

It is embarrassing.

Whether this bill goes through today or not, which is still undecided, it will NOT END TODAY. The bill will be DEFUNDED NEXT YEAR. The bill will be repealed. If the democrats think they are sticking something with the American People that they can never get rid of them, the democratic party will be finished forever.

And never forget, it wss the democrats who repealed the Civil Rights Act of 1875.


So the democrats aren't really heros for putting the Civil Rights Act of 1875 back in 90 years later.

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 21, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

I have to admit, I kind of like the census commercials.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, that was bad. Oh well. Time for some Terps!

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

"I had Gonzaga making the upset."

Whew, speaking of bad smells,
I didn't think they'd win,
but I didn't think they'd
lay a rotten egg.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Well, the mandate is one of the most unpopular aspects of the bill (among things that are actually in the bill)

But you still need it. This whole thing falls apart without a mandate.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

What is so bizarre is that the insured's (like jake) defending the rights of the uninsured to NOT buy insurance.

Of course, the uninsured are mostly for the bill because they want to buy insurance.

When I hear legions of the uninsured screaming to be uninsured, I'll be impressed.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

"Remember when Chris Cillizza kicked Chris Fox off The Fix for characterizing Tea Baggers as racists? So CC, now what, they are not all racists, is that the official Republican line? An isolated incident?
Disgraceful.

The Republican Rising! stinks. The great American middle does not like bigots, we went there, we did that, we are not going back. Even Dick Armey knows that is no way to win back the Presidency.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 1:16 PM"
_______

S2, as we recall, CF8 -- who has historically provided insight, information and wit far exceeding that supplied by this blog -- has been "banned" at least three times for objecting to racist posts and ugly personal attacks directed at him.

Every legitimate journalist who has covered the baggers has reported on their bigotry and and potential for violence, see Frank Rich, Janeane Garofalo. From this point on, the baggers' media apologists will be recognized as fellow travelers in racism and intolerance. I do think there remains a reasonable Powell-Hagel-Armitage wing of the GOP, but, for whatever reason, they have been silent in the face of this teabagger pathology.

Here's a picture of the Founder and President of the Tea Bag Party standing proudly with his famous (and misspelled) n-word sign:

http://washingtonindependent.com/73036/n-word-sign-dogs-would-be-tea-party-leader

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 21, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Maybe if GWB had tried to force every person in NYC who doesn't even own a car to purchase auto insurance via the IRS, those like broadwayjoe would understand the Constitutional nuances of such a mandate.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

@ddawd,

Cspan reported Stupak a yes around 1pm Eastern. I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

The R's want their image to be the guys who

Using the courts to repeal the HCR bill,
Using the courts to threaten to secede,
Using the courts to prove the President was born somewhere else,
Using the courts to generally harass and bore us all to tears.

They look like the battery-run Buzz Lightyear who's facing into the wrong direction and just keeps banging into the corner.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Well, if Stupak is in, then it's a done deal. Intrade is in the low 90s in some heavy trading. People are looking to cash in on a sure thing.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

The mandate will be the biggest legal challenge and, assuming the "sidecar" bill gets through the Senate, whether the reconciliation process was legal. Hopefully, one of the lawsuits includes a threshold question as to Obama being the legal President (assuming that Biden does not sign the bill within the required timeframe ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

So is Cspan more interesting than this game? I had Gonzaga making the upset. Looks like that's not going to happen.

But Republicans are in a tough situation. So much of the electorate is carved up. The white male demographic is their group. This means they have to have an electorate that is disproportionately racist. Eventually they will have to break away from this group, but that will entail some growing pains as they will lose a large chunk of voters without an immediate replacement. But if they start acting more sane, they will get more sane voters over time. But it will take time.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

@shrink, noa and broadway,

Wait until immigrant reform is raised on Capital Hill. Can you imagine the kind of demonstrations, signs, screaming, spitting, name calling and violence that will come out of that? The R's have adopted the Frankenstein monster, and you can dress him up and put a hat on him, but you won't fool people for long.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Remember when Chris Cillizza kicked Chris Fox off The Fix for characterizing Tea Baggers as racists? So CC, now what, they are not all racists, is that the official Republican line? An isolated incident?
Disgraceful.

The Republican Rising! stinks. The great American middle does not like bigots, we went there, we did that, we are not going back. Even Dick Armey knows that is no way to win back the Presidency.


Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

@broadway joe,

The TP's image is tarred with their own extremists. The Republicans are left to either 1) defend their actions,
2) condemn their actions,
3) minimize as "isolated" incidents.

What a bad menu of choices. How does that get more votes for R's?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

From now on, let's hope we're spared any further blather from the MSM, as well as bigoted sympathizers and apologists, about how the teabaggers are populist protesters concerned only about "tax reform" and "big government."

Nonsense! The tea baggers were and always will be bunch of racist thugs who, inflamed by the election of a black president, pose a clear and present danger of violence and domestic terrorism.

An account of the most recent tea bagger "protest" by those socippaths:

"Demonstrators outside the U.S. Capitol, angry over the proposed health care bill, shouted "n__ger" Saturday at U.S. Rep. John Lewis, a Georgia congressman and civil rights icon who was nearly beaten to death during an Alabama march in the 1960s.
The protesters also shouted obscenities at other members of the Congressional Black Caucus, lawmakers said.
"They were shouting, sort of harassing," Lewis said. "But, it's okay, I've faced this before. It reminded me of the 60s. It was a lot of downright hate and anger and people being downright mean."

....

Heated debate has surrounded what role race plays in the motivations of the tea party demonstrators. During protests last summer, demonstrators displayed a poster depicting Obama as an African witch doctor complete with headdress, above the words "OBAMACARE coming to a clinic near you." Former President Jimmy Carter asserted in September that racism was a major factor behind the hostility that Obama's proposals had faced."

http://www.truthout.org/racism-homophobia-dominates-tea-party-protest-over-health-care-bill57855

Case closed.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 21, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Get the lawsuits ready to file.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Stupak yes per Cspan.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

12Bar,

The Tpers, the monster Rs created is now starting to be so big an embarrasment the leadership has to apologize for them:


'Following reports yesterday that black and openly gay Democratic lawmakers were subjected to spitting and epithets from anti-health care reform protesters outside the Capitol, Republican leaders said Sunday that such incidents were "isolated" and "reprehensible."

At least they finally did the right thing after these jerks have behaved like animals for months.

Posted by: drindl | March 21, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

@suzy,

The key question is: how many votes does it take to go get Burgess Meredith as a trainer, find an OLD gym, and start doing one armed pushups. And sweat. And find the backup music track to Rocky.

Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! Can't you just see the bunch of outa shape, red-faced, pudgy, middleager men skipping rope? Gettin' ready to take on the liberals...bwahahaha!!!!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

If the bill passes by one vote, every democrat in a republican district that voted yes will be portrayed as casting the deciding vote. No way they would win reelection.
If the bill loses by one vote, every democrat that voted no would boost his/her reelection in republican districts by claiming to be the vote that killed the bill.
Pelosi must win by at least two votes.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

The schedule today?

#8 Gonzaga Go zags!
1st Half
#1 Syracuse

#10 Georgia Tech 2:20 ET
#2 Ohio State

#5 Michigan State 2:30 ET
#4 Maryland

#10 Missouri 2:40 ET
#2 West Virginia

#12 Cornell 2:50 ET
#4 Wisconsin

#6 Xavier 4:50 ET
#3 Pittsburgh

#5 Texas A&M 5:00 ET
#4 Purdue

#8 California 5:15 ET
#1 Duke

As for why? Why the Republicans can not recognize how courting America's bigots to win few elections in swing districts this Fall will cost them any chance at the White House a little over two and a half years from now, no I can not figure that out.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Suzy for the schedule. You are a font of information.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Here's the spin on things over at RealClearPolitics blog. If the vote is 216 or 217 yes, they're not going to accept it. Has to be higher than that (unspecified). They're muttering weird threats over there about "it's time to get ready" and a link to Stallone working out in his Rocky film and "why wait".

They're already starting to call Stupak "stupid". Seems a little short sighted to call the ONE guy who could stop the bill, stupid.

At least we're smarter than this on THIS blog. Right?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Hi all,

Does anyone know what the schedule is today?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 11:49 AM


Schedule from CBS:

Here is a rough estimate of the timing for Sunday's votes:

2 p.m.: The House will debate for one hour the rules of debate for the reconciliation bill and the Senate bill.

3 p.m.: The House will vote to end debate and vote on the rules of the debate.

3:15 p.m.: The House will debate the reconciliation package for two hours.

5:15 p.m.: The House will vote on the reconciliation package.

5:30 p.m.: The House will debate for 15 minutes on a Republican substitute and then vote on the substitute.

6 p.m.: The House will vote on the final reconciliation package.

6:15 p.m.: If the reconciliation bill passes, the House will immediately vote on the Senate bill, without debate.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000840-503544.html

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 21, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Screaming N!gger! at black legislators and spitting on them is, "just got stupid..."

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 11:55 AM
--------------------------------
I don't understand why the Republicans, and for that matter the Tea Party members, don't distance themselves from the racists in their midst and loudly condemn them. Granted that might be a wee bit difficult in the case of the one Tea Party (is it the Express) whose leader had the "n" sign, but if I were them, I'd try.

It's disturbing to think that Republicans, and Michael Steele, cannot afford to offend obvious racists, because by not condemning spitting "niggar" shouters, that's what it implies.

Each of these ugly racist incidents cements the image of the Republicans as the New Racist Party of No. How in the hell does that get them votes?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Republicans disgrace themselves, again.

Michael Steele, I guess you can still laugh if you put him in context, he is straight out of a Jim Crow skit in The Little Rascals.

Screaming N!gger! at black legislators and spitting on them is, "just got stupid..."

I wonder how Clarence Thomas and his Tea Bagging wife processed this over breakfast.


Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Hi all,

Does anyone know what the schedule is today? Cspan says the House will begin debate at 1pm eastern. That's all.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 21, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Hoyer admits on MTP that they are still short "low single digits" on this vote.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA) gave an excellent speech against Obamacare today.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 11:12 AM | Report abuse

The lead sentence to a NYT story this am:

"To Iraqis, victory is total; the other option is defeat. After a brutal history, elections, too, carry a threat of violence."

Hmmmm. Sounds vaguely familiar.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Please WaPo, get rid of that smirking oil company spokesflax. Sure you need money from oilforever.com, but please, that face, she is soooo creepy. I'd rather have the Obamacare fake time clock any day. At least its funny.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 21, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Bart Stupak said this morning that he has 8 votes in his coalition. If that’s true there’s almost no path to 216. However, Stupak also said he was nearing a deal with the White House on language that would go into an executive order, specifying no public funding for abortion. Obviously, if he can prevent insurance companies that cover abortions from getting any federal funds, that would be a victory.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Congress is empowered by the constitution to create its own procedural rules. Don't forget that the {threat of) filibuster which slowed down the passage of the senate bill and allowed time for Scott Brown's election is also a procedural gimmick not in the constitution.

Posted by: wfrd | March 21, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

DEMOCRATS Jim Mattheson, Glenn Nye, and Loretta Sanchez to Vote “No” — total so far 204 Yes, 209 No -- this is coming down to the wire.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Again, it's too bad that Obama LIED before Congress re: no federal funds for abortion. I guess he won't wait to sign Obamacare either like he promised during the campaign. How many of those promises has he broken so far?

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 9:56 AM | Report abuse

I "hope" the Ped takes DDAWD's advice (probably won't though). For the record, however, I have never hoped that Obama would be assassinated, nor did I hope that Teddy Kennedy would die. I've "cheered" about Special Elections, but not directly at any politician's death. I did ask if his hearse qualified for the HOV lane. And I think that I've been extremely polite here, especially in comparison to the hatred directed to me. If anyone else has questions about that, please let me know.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

CF8, you remind me of a book called Ball Four. It's about a guy who pitched for a team in Seattle. There was a line in there along the lines of "there's something to be said about a city that values its art museums more than its baseball teams"

That just popped into mind since I've been following so much basketball the past few days and you're so anti-sports. Not saying its a good thing or a bad thing. It's a thing. Smarter people than I can puzzle it out.

But here's one thing. You need to be more Jon Stewart and less Keith Olbermann. You need to be more funny and less angry. We all despise jaked. Let's work on more creative ways of expressing that!

And hey, look what's being passed tomorrow! Smile, smile, smile. Smile like you're looking at a parrot!

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 3:18 AM | Report abuse

Oh you've been clear, all right; you were clear when you "prayed" that I would die on the operating table, you were clear when you hoped President Obama (his legitimate title so go stuff yourself) would be assassinated, you were clear when you hoped Teddy Kennedy would die soon and you were despicable when he did and you cheered,

Yet somehow you think that some imaginary "lurkers" are going to buy your anomalous compassion for blastulas. I guess lurker is another word for idiot, because it's clear as could be that there be no compassion aboard the garbage scow that is JakeD. You're nothing but a sick little hater.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 21, 2010 2:09 AM | Report abuse

I think I've been clear for anyone lurking. See you tomorrow.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 21, 2010 12:25 AM | Report abuse

I think intrade was mainly just correcting itself. 90% is probably too high and so sellers were probably getting some good deals. It's stabilized now in the low 80s. I think that's a pretty reasonable place to be.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 21, 2010 12:00 AM | Report abuse

Jake,

It's just us here. This careful parsing, "it's not a threat, it's a prediction" is laughable. We all know you mean it as a threat. You are not an objective observer.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 11:51 PM | Report abuse

For the record, predicting that "There Will Be Blood" is not a death threat. For the last time, an objective observer on the shore across from Fort Sumter, before the first shot was fired, could have made the same exact prediction.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 11:42 PM | Report abuse

"BB, how can you possibly entertain the possibility that Jake could be sincere after all the death wishes he's expressed on here?

Come on.

Posted by: Noacoler"

Agreed. I wasn't being facetious when I said it is more moral to euthanize a baby than to hand it over to jaked. Obviously those would never be my only two options, but if it were, it's not even close as to the more moral route. Of course, it becomes even more clear if the baby isn't white or male.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 11:41 PM | Report abuse

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 also went through all sorts of parlimentary maneuvers to get through Congress.

"Normally, the bill would have been referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee, chaired by Senator James O. Eastland, Democrat from Mississippi. Under Eastland's care, it seemed impossible that the bill would reach the Senate floor.

Senate Majority Leader Mike Mansfield took a novel approach to prevent the bill from being relegated to Judiciary Committee limbo. Having initially waived a second reading of the bill, which would have led to it being immediately referred to Judiciary, Mansfield gave the bill a second reading on February 26, 1964, and then proposed, in the absence of precedent for instances when a second reading did not immediately follow the first, that the bill bypass the Judiciary Committee and immediately be sent to the Senate floor for debate.

Although this parliamentary move led to a filibuster, the senators eventually let it pass, preferring to concentrate their resistance on passage of the bill itself."

Most of us don't remember this maneuver.

We won't remember the maneuvers for HCR reform either.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 11:40 PM | Report abuse

Also, there is a big difference between being personally anti-abortion and legislating it. I know very few people who are against abortions who actually want to make it illegal. They all realize it's a personal choice. As for me, I am a lot more interested in stopping the circumstances surrounding abortion than in really stopping abortion itself. Poor people should have better standards of living. We should be educating people better. We should be promoting safe sex. All of these things will have societal benefits that have nothing to do with abortion. As for abortion itself, I can't really take a position since I'm a man and I don't even want to being to speculate what I would do if I were a woman who unexpectedly found herself pregnant. For all I've been through in life, I don't think any of it compares to being in that position. But that is why I am staunchly against legislating against abortion. I may not be the most humble person in the world, but I think it's approaching the heights of arrogance to make that decision for someone. I may be more sympathetic for late terms. Definitely not for the first month. It gets grayer as you move along, especially once you cross that 28 week threshold.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 11:38 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade:

I donate to lots of those organizations, including the Snowflakes outfit here locally. And, I can defend myself just fine, thanks.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 11:37 PM | Report abuse

@noa,

It's worse than that. I suspect Jake is sincere about being against elective abortions and is also sincere about his death threats.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

I respect John Boehner.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

BB, how can you possibly entertain the possibility that Jake could be sincere after all the death wishes he's expressed on here?

Come on.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 20, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

It was 40 years between the Missouri Compromise and first Civil War. It was over 100 years of "no taxation without representation". There's no statute of limitations on justice. Long-suffering causes are fought by pro-life Republicans AND Democrats.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 11:26 PM | Report abuse

John Boehner.
Can anyone say they respect this man?
He says the health industry bill will "ruin" America.

America has survived slavery, the Klan, the Viet Nam operation including Cambodia and Laos, the Cold War, our Civil War, Watergate, I could go on and on.

America is stronger than this.

Some people think Republicans arrive at their opinions and political positions honestly. I can not figure that out.
Honestly, I don't believe it,


Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

12BB, I'm guessing you're someone who is more interested in reducing abortion through social reform. You wouldn't really fit in that characterization of the movement.
----------------------------------
It's a very complicated and conflicted issue for me. I am not part of an anti-abortion movement, partly because their tactics repel me.

To me, if one is pro life, one should be for life before birth, life during life, anti capital punishment, and in my case, life after life. Does that make me a bleeding heart? Probably.

My spiritual practices discourages me from speculating who is in heaven and prohibits me from speculating who is in hell.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

I think we get a bit too personal around here. For what it's worth Jake, I respect your offer and believe it was honestly meant. Having friends who are adoptive parents (as well as a close friend and a brother-in-law who can't conceive), I know that the adoptive process is expensive. I am quite sure that there are organizations in southern California what would be delighted to have the assistance of a retired attorney. Naturally, you may already have other obligations.

Warmest regards,

Paul

(known in these parts as the Fairlington Blade)

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 20, 2010 11:23 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 11:16 PM | Report abuse

Abortion is turning into a very boring topic. It's only been like 40 years

Posted by: Noacoler | March 20, 2010 11:15 PM | Report abuse

12BB, I was referring to the anti-abortion movement. There are people who are against abortion who don't really fit in the broader scope of the movement. There are those who find abortion a social problem that needs to be dealt with in a responsible way that needs to help all parties involved. People like jaked aren't really interested in stopping abortion. They are more interested in hurting people who need it and are involved with it. That is why they find killing doctors preferable to increasing the minimum wage. In improving the economic conditions for the poor and reducing abortions that way, you don't get to say "me good - they bad" That is why the problem doesn't get solved. The loudest proponents of anti-abortion don't want to reduce abortions. 12BB, I'm guessing you're someone who is more interested in reducing abortion through social reform. You wouldn't really fit in that characterization of the movement.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 11:13 PM | Report abuse

Too bad that Obama LIED before Congress re: no federal funds for abortion. I guess he won't wait to sign Obamacare either. How many campaign promises has he broken so far?

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

Actually, judges and juries CONVICT mothers who kill their children all of the time. I'm not here to judge someone's salvation, but my goal is to outlaw elective abortions.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 10:59 PM | Report abuse

@ddawd,

I am pro life, and I am for this HCR bill. Sometimes, I think conservatives think the only prolife people are on the right. Not true. It's very personal for me. But, I don't condemn those who have abortions. I wish she didn't, but one can't judge someone until you walk a mile in her shoes.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 10:50 PM | Report abuse

Looks like the intrade bubble might be bursting. The value of the contract has dropped ten points within the last few hours from the high 80s to the high 70s

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 10:10 PM
---------------------------
Glenn Nye is going to vote no. Jerry McNerney is a yes. My count is 207 for/207 against/17 in flux. Probably why Intrade dropped.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Again, for any mother who thinks there's no other way than to kill her baby:

Jake Dort
5181 San Aquario Drive
San Diego, CA 92109
(858) 274-5189

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 10:40 PM | Report abuse

@ceflynline,

I made my proposal with tongue firmly in cheek. But, it was based on the periodic threats made on this blog that the passage of HCR will prompt bloodletting. So, folks who make threats shouldn't mind a discussion of the possibility of an armed revolution. Come on, Jake, you're on stage now...


Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

Well, that's the problem with the anti-abortion movement. It is more rooted in politics and religion than in humanity. Abortion reduction should really be a part of a larger foundation to improve the quality of life for people. But it's really not and that's why nothing gets done about it. Anti-abortion basically sits at the confluence of sanctimonious zealots and cynical politicians. Neither of these groups are really interested in doing anything about abortion. The former basically use it as a moral crowbar to separate themselves from the impure and the latter use it as a political cudgel. This bill will actually result in a reduction in abortions, but the anti-abortion people are against the bill because it can't be used as a moral crowbar or a political cudgel. It's not about being anti-abortion as much as it is about claiming to be anti-abortion.

I guess Jesus is a bit hard of hearing at his advanced age, so the anti-abortionists have to scream in order to let Jesus know that they are the good ones and everyone else is bad.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 10:33 PM | Report abuse

"I'm serious. Intrade needs to have a contract "There will Be Blood". The chances of an armed revolution taking over the federal government by Dec. 31, 2012. Or should it be certain states? Details are important here. BTW, confusions seems to have lifted at the moment at Intrade. Chances of HCR passage at 89%. Posted by: 12BarBlues"

Basically, I can't see the mechanism of armed revolution, period, and certainly can't see the mechanism of it taking over the government.

Certainly no state will try anything. Too much fiscal dependency on the union. Now can I see any possibility of some confederacy of "militias", most of whom are about as undisciplined as the rabble that passed for militia, (NOT "Well Regulated Militia" of which we currently have none) in the War of 1812.

I also don't see a Shay's or a Whiskey Rebellion because there aren't any more frontier appendages to feel far enough from D.C. to think they can get by with it.

Other than that, we already have the blood, that idiot who crashed into the building in Texas. So if you are going to bet it will be that some T-Bagger decides to take potshots at some building or Government personage, High rank or low rank. And now how do you decide if it qualifies as "Blood" under your contract.

If, for instance, some kid who thinks he is White Aryan Resistance material gets shot at a mall, does that count?

I doubt Intrade would take a chance on such a contract, especially one that a trader could fulfill by doing the shooting.

Posted by: ceflynline | March 20, 2010 10:28 PM | Report abuse

That's what I figured.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 20, 2010 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 10:22 PM | Report abuse

Other than threats and bluster on blogs, what have you actually DONE about children in orphanages, JakeD?

I stand by my observation; while there are legitimate pro-lifers like 12Bar, who passes the consistency test, all you right wingers fail it. You're against infant nutrition programs, you're against programs for pregnant women, you're against education. You don't care if a child grows up stunted, malnourished and unemployable as long as its mother is forced to carry it to term.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 20, 2010 10:12 PM | Report abuse

Looks like the intrade bubble might be bursting. The value of the contract has dropped ten points within the last few hours from the high 80s to the high 70s

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 10:10 PM | Report abuse

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postmortem/2010/03/stewart-udall-environmental-ic.html?hpid=topnews


Stewart Udall, environmental icon, dies at 90


Stewart L. Udall, an Arizona congressman who was secretary of the interior under presidents Kennedy and Johnson and continued to be one of the nation's strongest advocates for the environment, died Saturday at his home in Santa Fe, N.M. He was 90.

He was a renowned figure in the environmental movement and was one of the prime movers behind many major conservation acts, including the Water Quality, Wilderness and Endangered Species acts of the 1960s.

His brother, Morris K. "Mo" Udall, served in the U.S. House for 30 years, and his son Tom Udall is a current U.S. senator from New Mexico. A full obituary will follow.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Obviously, I am not going to personally adopt 120,000 babies -- I'm too old and didn't say that -- my offer is to any mother who thinks there's no other way than to kill her child. There are so many loving, caring couples with whom I could legally place your child. Let me know, and I will post my home address and phone number.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 9:19 PM | Report abuse

ddawd wrote: Black lawmakers say 'tea party' protesters used racial epithets
--------------------------------
Someone filmed it. Will be seen and heard on the news and 'net. The TP movement's image will be further tarnished by these clips.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 8:19 PM
____________

Shocked. Absolutely shocked. :)

Has Tea Bag Party Founder and President Dale Robertson updated his n-word sign?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 20, 2010 9:03 PM | Report abuse

ddawd wrote: Black lawmakers say 'tea party' protesters used racial epithets
--------------------------------
Someone filmed it. Will be seen and heard on the news and 'net. The TP movement's image will be further tarnished by these clips.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 8:19 PM | Report abuse

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/20/AR2010032002556.html?hpid=topnews

Black lawmakers say 'tea party' protesters used racial epithets

Also, the sun rose today.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Shrink, your Huskies are doing well. They're going to the sweet 16.

I guess Maryland is my horse in the race now. I've got no bracket now.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who wins a tournament pool this year was picking using a dimensional matrix, they applied solutions of fantastic complexity yet elegant simplicity, surely a structural analysis of covariate factors in non-linear relationships, using mascot favorites, team colors, silly nick names, parts of the country they have heard about and wanted to visit, funny foreign sounding names...way beyond me.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Jake wants newborns to adopt? Why does your charitable heart only extend to newborns?

A quick google search revealed that there are over 120,000 children in the US awaiting adoption right now. Many of them have been in foster care for a long time and I'm sure most state agencies would be glad to have Jake and his many friends enter the program with a view to adopting.

This so sweet of you Jake. I'm really impressed by your feelings and I hope you act on them right away. With your empty nest, steady income, boat and Mrs. Jake there to help I'm sure you could take in several children aching for the stability of a forever family.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 20, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

Well, my bracket is shot. Congrats, Northern Iowa. That was a great game.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 7:52 PM | Report abuse

Suzy, each contract is a deal between the seller and buyer. If the buyer wins, the money comes out of the seller's account. I believe that when the seller sells a contract, intrade freezes the appropriate amount of money ($10/contract) to ensure that the payment can be made. Intrade simply transfers the money when the contract closes (and collects their fees).

So even if intrade goes out of business, they could theoretically still make those transfers.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Hi again! Getting ready to go out.

I just noticed that Intrade bid prices are all below 80 again. There hasn't been a trade in about 30 minutes. Maybe everybody else went out too. ( It could also be the Intrade server room guys messing with us. Noacoler, what do you think?)

Did you know that Intrade has two contracts on itself? One is for whether or not it will still be in business on June 10, the other is for Dec 10. If you short either one and end up being right, Intrade won't be there to pay you. Scary! I guess I better keep a close watch on those two contracts.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 20, 2010 7:41 PM | Report abuse

It is huge,
I don't think people have any idea
how huge. It is going to set the country on a track that can't but lead to social consciousness, not 20th century socialism,
a social conscience. Some will try to protect notions of rugged individualism. Think Ted Nugent. But nostalgia is a weakness, ask any recovering addict.

Its time to go.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 7:41 PM | Report abuse

lol, I'm sure pretty much all of us would rather painlessly euthanize a baby than give it to jaked.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 7:38 PM | Report abuse

If anyone gets me a newborn here in the U.S., I will get that baby adopted.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Thanks 12BB. Man, this is history being made. Our generation's New Deal or Social Security or Medicare. It's not a perfect bill and it won't save the world, but it's still huge in its own way. And it's a scary political environment. I can appreciate the courage it is taking to pass this.

But it's nothing in comparison to the courage faced by people in the "quiet crises" And this bill will be the beginning of the end of those crises.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 7:33 PM | Report abuse

As someone pointed out on a different thread, there are organizations that will, if you agree to give up the child to adoption once born, pay for your medical expenses while pregnant. That may seem a little weird, but, in my book, it is better than abortion.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

So moving.

Just think of all the savings.

Obamacare Saving Methods:

"Don't you think you've lived a full life?"

"Do you really want to have this baby?"

Momentous.

Posted by: Washington13 | March 20, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Obama's speech to House Democrats

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/the_president_talks.html

Very moving, even in just text. If someone can find video, I'd love to see it.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 7:13 PM
---------------------------
Just watched it on CSpan.

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/03/20/HP/R/30882/WEEKEND+DEBATE+ON+HEALTH+CARE+BEGINS.aspx

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Obama's speech to House Democrats

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/the_president_talks.html

Very moving, even in just text. If someone can find video, I'd love to see it.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

I've yet to meet a right wing prolifer who gives a damn if the baby starves to death a week after birth. The moral claim fails the consistency test.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 20, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Yes of course!
Kansas is struggling,
for now...

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Skrink, are you watching now? If NoIowa pulls this off, that's going to wreck a LOT of brackets.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Obviously there are problems with abortion as birth control (the ooops I did it again people). But apart from their religious mumbo jumbo, the right has no moral position. They speak of a Right to Life? You have to laugh and cry at the same time, or just not care.

But if more losers got their (so lovely! so *flexible* and oh so loyal too) partners, as some of The Fix residents have, out of the internets' tubes, there wouldn't be an issue.

http://anatomical.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_32531001

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 7:01 PM | Report abuse

I was goading Jake for another blood oath.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 20, 2010 6:56 PM
----------------------------------
I was hoping that was your motive.

Seems like today is a good day for it, since blood seems to the Topic of the Day.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Ok, here is how I think the intrade fees works.

For the trades themselves.

If you are a price MAKER, a person who makes an offer that is not immediately filled, there is no fee. For the HCR, if you make a bid of less than 87 (the lowest asking price), there is no fee. If you make a sell offer greater than 86 (the highest buy offer) there is no fee. However, if you make an order that is immediately filled, then there is a 5cent fee per trade. (the fee is 3 cents if the contract sells at 5 or 95)

When closing a contract, whoever wins (the buyer if HCR passes or the seller if it fails) is charged a 10 cent fee.

And remember that 1% translates to 10 cents on a contract.

So if I buy a contract at 88, I will pay $8.80 for the contract and $0.05 for the charge. If I win, I get $9.90 for a profit of $1.05.

So while I'm buying an 88% contract, I really need to be about 89.4% sure that HCR will pass since that is the breakeven percentage.

That makes the pricing of the contracts kind of interesting. If you are a price maker, you want to set a price such that someone is willing to be a price taker for your offer. Remember that a buyer has to pay more for to be a taker than a maker AND has to pay a service charge. A seller makes less money to be a taker rather than a maker AND pay a service charge. So there is a disincentive to be a price taker. The only advantage to being a price taker is that you're locked in. If you make a buy offer at 86, you'll be better off IF someone takes the offer. However, if the price jumps to 90, you'd have been better taking the 87 and getting locked in. Now if you want action, you'll have to pay more for it. And if the price drops to like 82, then you'll be able to get your buy, but you will be overpaying.

So there's a pretty strong incentive to set these prices in such a way that they will be accepted relatively quickly.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 6:58 PM | Report abuse

No 12Bar what I mean is that women who get pregnant inadverently and lack the means to raise a child won't have to, and I think that is a good thing. I can't raise any moral outrage for A dead blastula, but an unwanted child is a travesty.

The bill won't fund abortion but ... you know, fungibility.

I was goading Jake for another blood oath.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 20, 2010 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Will JakeD slit his wrists? One can hope.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 20, 2010 6:50 PM
---------------------------------
Jake CAN'T slit his wrists. He needs his wrists to pick up his guns and ammo belt, clamp on his ninja beanie, and join the armed revolution screaming "there will be blood". As long as it's not their own, is what they mean.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 6:54 PM | Report abuse

More abortion ---> fewer unwanted and malnourished children ---> better societty

Posted by: Noacoler | March 20, 2010 6:43 PM
--------------------------------
I know you are pro-choice. You know that I am pro-life. That is ok. Do you mean to imply that HCR is somehow about promoting abortions?

I don't think so. If I thought that, I would have major reservations in supporting the bill.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 6:51 PM | Report abuse

With the census and HCR passage coming at once, expect major paranoia among the wingnuts. Don't be shocked if we get a slew of Von Brunn incidents in the next few weeks.

Will 37th take a break? No.

Will JakeD slit his wrists? One can hope.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 20, 2010 6:50 PM | Report abuse

More abortion ---> fewer unwanted and malnourished children ---> better societty

Posted by: Noacoler | March 20, 2010 6:43 PM | Report abuse

That's utter BS, Joe. I'm welcome for you to quote any newspaper characterizing those who participated in Krystallnacht as nice folks. Hyperbole hurts your credibility.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 20, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Hey, 37th, just to bolster your case. Zack Space to vote no.

Did you short Intrade? Last chance, get your trades in before the blue light quits blinking.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Nancy Pelosi could be throwing this whole thing in Obama's lap.


It was Obama who wanted the vote tomorrow.

So many people, democrats, democratic pollsters told them to hold off - that the damage to the party is going to be too great.

Well, Obama did it to himself.

Right now it appears that Nancy is 12 votes short. And they don't want to make a compromise with Stupak - so they have 12 undecideds - and Stupak is probably aligned with several of those. We will have to see, but tomorrow's vote is not certain, and whether it will even happen tomorrow is not certain either.


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse

37, your Mom says your mayonnaise sandwich is ready...Come up from the basement when you're ready. Enjoy.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 20, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse

37th wrote: "Even if Obama wins the vote tomorrow..."
-------------------------------
My God, man up. Don't give up so early. Maybe the President will have a stroke and he won't be able to sign the bill...or maybe Nancy will get hit by a bus...or maybe all the Democrats will get raptured up and the R's will win the vote 210-not present.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 6:34 PM | Report abuse

DD since my bracket is wadded up under under yesterday's wishes and fears, maybe the UofDawg Huskies will get along. Cal looked hot last night, go Pac 10.

I am glad the UofPhilKnight is in the toilet.
Duck sports are going to need to find the Spirit of Pre before they get their mojo back.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 6:32 PM | Report abuse

critter69


Do you have any idea what you are talking about?


If you want statistics why don't you go look at Rasmussen and Obama's approval rating.

Yes, the Constitution says "actual enumeration"

I guess when you go to the store, you want your vegetable and fruits actually weighed, instead of some "statistical" guess.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 6:31 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


You have to pay 10 cents on a contract that settles at 100


Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 6:29 PM | Report abuse

NO President should have to give a rally on Capitol Hill on a Saturday before a Sunday vote - You never saw LBJ do that.

Obama is a miserable failure.

Even if Obama wins the vote tomorrow, he is dragging his party through the mud - and through a horrible fall -

OH Wait, you say the democrats are better off with the bill, than without it.

Everyone is pissed at the democrats - and getting the bill passed, which no one wants, isn't going to help them.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 6:26 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues

Yes, there is a charge when the contract settles - you don't get 0 or 100.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

"I was near the Crystal City Metro station after a big TP rally last summer. Seemed like nice folks. Couple the Great Recession with fear of change and you get a populist backlash."
_________

That's what they said about the folks that smashed shopkeepers' windows in 1939 Germany. The Tea Bag Party's founder and president goes around with an n-word sign for goodness sakes. Let's call them what they are (see Janeane Garofalo, Frank Rich): a dangerous racist proxy movement.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 20, 2010 6:08 PM | Report abuse

I was near the Crystal City Metro station after a big TP rally last summer. Seemed like nice folks. Couple the Great Recession with fear of change and you get a populist backlash.

Obama was impressive at the caucus meeting. He's got his mojo back.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 20, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Speaking to "there will be blood", you have to see the photo at:

http://thinkprogress.org/

Tea Party sign threatens gun violence if health care passes.

"Tea Party activists have gathered on Capitol Hill today for a “Code Red” rally against health care reform. Speakers at the event included Republican Reps. Steve King (IA), Michele Bachmann (MN), and Mike Pence (IN). The gathering was organized by Tea Party Profiteer organizations like FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity. ThinkProgress attended today’s rally and spotted a sign threatening violence if health care passes. The sign reads: “Warning: If Brown can’t stop it, a Browning can,” referring to Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA) and a Browning firearm."


Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 4:33 PM
_____________

Seems like the very essence of racist, irrational domestic terrorism. They call them tea baggers today. In other times they were called the Brotherhood, the Klan, the "Citizen Council," the Birch Society, etc. Same agenda, same hate. Imagine, rooting against steps towards universal health care because the President who is pushing for them is, well, you know. Sad. BTW, did Napolitano ever get an apology from those who criticized her for predicting attacks from rightwing dometic terrorists, see Von Brunn?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 20, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Damn, Murray St. almost pulled it off. I'm pretty sure if they won, I'd be at the top of the WaPo leaderboard. (I was 18th before the game)

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 5:34 PM | Report abuse

I had a feeling the tea bagging cockroaches would show up with their hate-filled signs screaming like lunatics at the top of their lungs.

Not many of the scuzbags showed up (maybe half a busload of Dick Armey's "Freedoms Works" losers), and thankfully CNN only gave them 2 seconds of air time.

LOL!

Posted by: ovechkin | March 20, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

37th?

Did you read the instructions on how many pills, and when to take them, that the doctor gave you? If the instructions say once every six hours, taking two every 12 hours is NOT following the instructions. If the instructions say to take before a meal, you should let at least an hour elapse from the time you take the pill(s) before eating anything. If the instructions say to take the pill(s) after a meal, one bite of a potato chip does not constitute a meal. Spitting up the meal (before or after taking the pill(s)) is NOT playing by the rules, either.

Also, I presume that you were against the use of statistical sampling for the 2000 Census? The RepubliGOONs, who at that time were in control of the House and Senate, made sure that the Census Bureau didn't use statistical sampling when conducting the 2000 Census.

Do you know how the RepubliGOONs kept statistical sampling from being used? In 1997, the RepubliGOONs passed a law, using 'deem and pass', to prohibit the use of statistical sampling in the 2000 Census.

So if 'deem and pass' is unconstitutional, statistical sampling can be used in any upcoming National Census, can't it? Unless some court says it can't? After all, dince the law the RepubliGOONs passed in 1997 was by 'deem and pass', and since 'deem and pass' is unconstitutional, there is no law on the books that says it can't be done that way, right?

Posted by: critter69 | March 20, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

By the way, the Dems aren't going to use deem and pass. I think they got a commitment from 50 Senators. This is a good thing. Dems are going to take ownership of the bill no matter what. No need to use procedural rules.

Now all we need is for Murray St. to pull off their second upset.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Some group acting to create a false impression is not a conspiracy -

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 5:04 PM
--------------------------------------------
bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!1

You would know.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, obviously the Ds have the votes,
the deals being made now are about chits (DeFazio and lots of others) and political cover for districts with a lot of Republicans... balancing that with a need for process that will survive heavy scrutiny (go ahead, laugh).

There is the potential for a Supreme Court intervention. I won't mention Bush v Gore, but there are five Supreme Court justices with hurt feelings about Obama Democrats and after Citizens United, we know they don't have any problem with judicial activism.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Some group acting to create a false impression is not a conspiracy -

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Well, the last several trades have been at almost 90.

Does the service charge apply to cashing out a contract? I know you have to pay 30 cents for each buy and sell. But if a seller has to pay off a buyer, is there a charge for that too?

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 5:00 PM
---------------------------------
This is a good question for 37th, who has traded on Intrade before.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Well, the last several trades have been at almost 90.

Does the service charge apply to cashing out a contract? I know you have to pay 30 cents for each buy and sell. But if a seller has to pay off a buyer, is there a charge for that too?

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

I think this is new information:

3.20.2010
It's Complicated!
by Nate Silver @ 1:49 PM

UPDATE (3:21 PM): ...per Josh Kraushaar, Chris Carney (PA-10) will now vote for the bill. Everything looks to be back on track. The Intrade contract -- now at 85 percent -- might in fact be a little cheap.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Speaking to "there will be blood", you have to see the photo at:

http://thinkprogress.org/

Tea Party sign threatens gun violence if health care passes.

"Tea Party activists have gathered on Capitol Hill today for a “Code Red” rally against health care reform. Speakers at the event included Republican Reps. Steve King (IA), Michele Bachmann (MN), and Mike Pence (IN). The gathering was organized by Tea Party Profiteer organizations like FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity. ThinkProgress attended today’s rally and spotted a sign threatening violence if health care passes. The sign reads: “Warning: If Brown can’t stop it, a Browning can,” referring to Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA) and a Browning firearm."


Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Pardon me while I whip this out...

And the rockets red glare,
the bombs bursting in air,
gave proof through the night
that our Flag was still there.

Oh say does that
star spangled banner yet wave,
o'er the land of the free
and the home of the brave.

Thank you.
Thank you very much.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

I'm serious. Intrade needs to have a contract "There will Be Blood".

The chances of an armed revolution taking over the federal government by Dec. 31, 2012. Or should it be certain states? Details are important here.

BTW, confusions seems to have lifted at the moment at Intrade. Chances of HCR passage at 89%.

Note to 37th: Ignore above, per usual conspiracy rules.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

meh, jaked is just one in a billion people who feel free to say whatever they want on the internet. Obama assassination jokes? No problem. Threaten violence? No one knows who he is.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Didn't we get the Fort Sumter metaphor yesterday? It doesn't make your original blood comment responsible and it doesn't make you look prescient. It has made you sound hysterical twice (when you made the blood comment and when you summoned up Fort Sumter).

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 20, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Man, you can really tell what Cilizza wants. I really don't know why I ever even tune in his channel... it needs to be linked to Fox T.V. and Teabagger Central blog sites.

Posted by: Geopolitics101 | March 20, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

shrink2


Save that posting and read it to yourself in November.

The reasoning behind these votes is the "damage to the democrats is already done"

Some way to govern.

.


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

shrink2:

it is not "rage" to note that there will be blood. Any objective observer standing on the shore across from Fort Sumter before a shot was fired could have told you that.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 20, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

So yeah, I picked St. Marys to beat Nova.

I figured you all should know.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

SuzyCcup is right - they do not have to abide by the 72 hour rule - and if they do pass the health care bill, the Republicans will have massive wins in November.


I think DeFazio and Lynch may have been ruses - to make Stupak and his group think there were more NO votes than people thought.

Things are going on now that will make your heads spin.

I can tell you this right now - the democrats are not talking like they have the votes.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Denial (won't happen) and rage (you will all pay! there will be blood!), denial and rage.

It is a stuck grieving process.

Not just a few, a lot of Republicans are like the sick man yesterday, still grieving the South's loss of its slave culture in the Great Yankee War of Aggression. They just can tolerate being wrong.

After this health industry stimulus bill happens (like most lefties, I will not call it reform), we'll hear a lot from the Tenthers about secession, nullification and so on, its as if history can not move forward just because they can't. I just hope they don't go Timothy McVeigh and blow up a day care center full of federal workers' children.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

In the course of the last several hours, four key members who voted against the House health care bill in November joined the reform effort. And moments ago, a high-profile anti-abortion Democrat announced that he could vote for the Senate bill.

This morning, Rep. John Boccieri (D-OH)--a pro-life Dem--offered his support. He was followed by Rep. Allen Boyd (D-FL)--perhaps the most conservative Democrat in the House. Then, Rep. Suzanne Kosmas (D-FL) joined in on the fun. And moments ago, Rep. Scott Murphy (D-NY) declared he's good to go.

Apart from them, Rep. Brad Ellsworth (D-IN)--a Senate hopeful and a long-time hold out on abortion--said this evening that he will vote for the final package, just as he did on the House bill in November.

Posted by: drindl | March 20, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

MORE GOP DIRTY TRICKS

Democrats today are accusing Republicans of circulating a fraudulent memo that claims to be sent to "Democratic health and communications staff" and which suggests the majority party leadership wants to make big changes to Medicare next year after health care passes.

A senior Democratic leadership aide told TPMDC in an interview the memo, obtained and printed by Politico and leading the Drudge Report this afternoon a few days ahead of the health care vote Sunday, is "a hoax."

"We have checked with every Democratic office, no one has ever seen it. It did not come out of a Democratic office," the aide said, adding that media outlets printing the memo have not checked with leadership offices if the memo is authentic. A second Democratic leadership aide confirmed the memo was not sent by the Democrats. A third Democratic aide also said the memo is fake, citing the "draft" stamp and saying no one uses such things.'

Posted by: drindl | March 20, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Scott Murphy Flips From No To Yes On Health Care
Blue Dog Dem Boyd Flips From No To Yes
Kosmas Flips From No To Yes On Health Care
Pro-Lifer Ellsworth Voting Yes On Health Care

Posted by: drindl | March 20, 2010 3:29 PM

drindl, that's all old stuff. Pelosi is still short today.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 20, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Scott Murphy Flips From No To Yes On Health Care
Blue Dog Dem Boyd Flips From No To Yes
Kosmas Flips From No To Yes On Health Care
Pro-Lifer Ellsworth Voting Yes On Health Care

Posted by: drindl | March 20, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Drindl


We will have to see that-


Obama is basically having another rally - not the stuff of actually securing votes.

If Nancy doesn't have the Stupak crew on board - where are the votes ???

ANYWAY - IF THE DEMOCRATS WANT SO MANY OF THEIR CONGRESSMEN TO GO OFF THE CLIFF ON THIS ONE, FINE.

The liberals are happy - all in their safe districts - it is the democrats in the competitive districts which are difficult.


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

gonna be fun watching you all eat that.

Posted by: drindl | March 20, 2010 3:20 PM


Hey drindl, don't get too confident. If Pelosi had the votes, they'd be on the floor right now voting.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 20, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

drindl

How do you know I am in a part of the country that is having good weather ?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

":Suzy

Nancy does NOT have the votes - they are simply not there.

Posted by: 37thand0stree"

gonna be fun watching you all eat that.

Posted by: drindl | March 20, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Fairlington

I have no idea what Steny Hoyer just said - how many votes he is talking about - many one rule for two bills -

He seemed to say that the vote on the reconciliation is going to take place BEFORE the vote on the Senate bill.

So it appears that they want to change the Senate bill


AGAIN there is no reason they should leave themselves open to a Court challenge, but it seems that they want to do just that.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

.

.

.

Poor 37. Here is is a beautiful Saturday, and he's on the computer, all alone here, no one to talk to. But i guess maybe they don't let him out.

...

.

.

.

Posted by: drindl | March 20, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

"ah, I see. Man, the weather is awesome here. Kind of makes me wish I lived somewhere sorta safe to walk around in! Posted by: DDAWD"

Sad that good weather finds you in such a place. This part of Ohio is loaded with Rail to hike/bike etc trails, river bike-ways, parks, reserves, woods, full of hikers, bikers, (from self propelled to dirty shirt, out getting in the brown before it turns green.

And within three hours drive are Hocking hills, (Ash Cave, Old man's cave, Cedar falls, Rock House and Cantwell Cliffs and Conkle's Hollow and about a million OSU, OU, Marietta U, students and tourists from everywhere, but especially from Japan. by mid April Hikers and Bikers gridlock over much of the state. From the Allegheny Tunnel to the Mississippi, and from the Kentucky, (or maybe the Tennessee) to the Tundra. I quit going out there ten years ago and even I feel the urge again.

Head out here to the old Northwest Territory and come hiking. Or canoeing, kayaking, biking, however you choose to move.

And its all as safe as you can get, considering how likely you might be to get hit by lightning or fall off a cliff.

Posted by: ceflynline | March 20, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Suzy

Nancy does NOT have the votes - they are simply not there.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 3:09 PM


I agree, 37. Here's an interesting article by Michael Barone about the vote count. He says it wouldn't be impossible for Pelosi to get the votes but it would be very difficult.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/The-state-of-play-in-the-House-88725462.html

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 20, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Suzy

Nancy Pelosi and the democrats have already turned their backs on the Stupak language - so they have ZERO CREDIBILITY ON THE ISSUE.


Nothing they can say will provide adequate assurance of future actions.


Nancy does NOT have the votes - they are simply not there. Perhaps the speculation from earlier this week will end up being the final result: Pelosi wants to call a vote and let the chips fall where they may and perhaps fail.

Nancy Pelosi doesn't want to lose the fall election - meaning her majority.

Nancy Pelosi herself might be thinking that Obama is trying to turn her into a LEMMING IN A TOYOTA - so Nancy might not be too upset if this bill fails - Nancy might think SHE is better off politically if this bill fails.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

SuzyCcup


What Obama is thinking, that after ignoring the economy and jobs for 15 months - all the voters are suddenly going to FORGET all of this.

Obama is a complete fool.

Obama has been so busy lying to everyone, I think he has started to lie to himself.

That is the only explanation.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

The democratic leadership MADE AN AGREEMENT with the Catholic Bishops last fall - and that agreement was the Stupak language. - The democrats then turned their backs on that agreement.


Then Nancy Pelosi has the nerve to mention St. Joseph yesterday.

ON his feastday.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

I was thinking today that if the bill passed by just one vote, it would really make it tough for the democrats from conservative districts that voted yes. Each one of them would be held responsible for casting the tie-breaker. How would they campaign against that? Should be interesting.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 20, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade

The issue was whether the House can pass the Senate bill in the same vote as the changes -


Henry Waxmen just said that he thinks they need a separate vote.


Everything needs a rule - so the issue is whether we have 2 votes or 4.

You are confusing the substance of the issue with the normal technical details.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) said Saturday that the House would take three votes Sunday: first, on a resolution that will set the terms of debate; second, on a package of amendments to the Senate bill that have been demanded by House members; and third, on the Senate bill itself.

Ultimately, there would be more votes. As 37th noted, a Senate vote on the reconciliation package. As this package will differ from that passed by the House, then there's a conference committee, followed by separate votes in the House & Senate. And then it's done.

See, 37th? You can make points without insulting others.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 20, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how all the younger people are going to feel when they realize that Obama is going to send them a bill for health care, after promising not to raise anyone's taxes. AND if you don't buy health insurance, Obama is going to have the IRS go after them.

I guess the democrats have decided to write off an entire generation of young people.

It is pretty foolish.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Whatever the outcome when the vote on HCR takes place, it has certainly been an exciting time.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 2:07 PM


Yeah, 12BB, and we learned a lot. It certainly taught me a lot about reconciliation. I never heard very much on that in the past. Maybe the rest of you have. I learned a lot more about filibusters too. Now, if we can get the bill to fail, that would be the icing on the cake for me.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 20, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

"Deem and Pass" is now dead.


I guess there will now be three votes according to your count, Fairlington.


However, the Senate bill might need its own rule, so that makes four votes.

You wanted to get technical.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Fairlington


I have no idea why you are making that point - because it doesn't address the issue at all.


So, are you being stupid or deceptive ?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

I think Suzy has it right. There is confusion and enormous pressure on the undecided reps. Why should Senators have all the glory?

I listened to some of the rules committee discussion today. That is precisely where it was explained that it's 2 votes, not 1. The first vote adopts the rules for debate and deems the Senate bill passed. The second passes the revisions. Those aren't my facts. Those aren't your facts. Those are THE facts.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 20, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

I think there's a lot of confusion as to whether Pelosi can get the votes without Stupak and Intrade is reflecting this.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 20, 2010 2:24 PM
----------------------------------
I suspect you are right. There is a little more doubt being reflected in the market.

Note to 37th: Ignore the above since it means nothing if the market is manipulated.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Note for 37th. Add presenting proof of a deal between the Democrats and Catholic bishops (I'd prefer to trust a nun) to your list of unproven assertions.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 20, 2010 2:10 PM
---------------------------------------
And, then...then...[uncontrollable laughing]...37th says, "you may be entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own FACTS."

All in one grand circular motion, 37th assumes HIS unproven allegations are facts.

Assumptions=allegations=facts. All synonymous in 37thWorld. The world according to 37th!

Bwahahaha!!!!!!! Bwahahaha!!!!!!!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Hello everyone!

Had to get here early today. This is exciting. The passing of the bill looks shaky to me. Intrade is hovering right at 80 but it's been below that level several times today. That's not a good sign for proponents of the bill. It should be moving steadily up at this stage of the game. The bid prices are all at 78 or below. A candlestick chart of the last 24 hours is showing cracks in the momentum.

I think there's a lot of confusion as to whether Pelosi can get the votes without Stupak and Intrade is reflecting this.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 20, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I prefer to think of myself as a big fat ugly cave troll residing in Moria. However, you're the one who asserted there was a side agreement with the Catholic bishops. So, I'm not claiming my own facts, just asking you to provide yours. Not that I've ever seen that happen.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 20, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade


What do you think the Stupak language was to begin with ???


Is it OK for you for the democrats to get the benefit of press that the Catholic Bishops are behing the health care bill -


AND then have the democrats go back on their word ??? It was complete treachery.

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF FOR SUPPORTING THESE PEOPLE.

You have no moral character.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Actually, it has already been stated that there will be two votes. One on adopting the rules from the Rules Committee (in which the Senate bill would be deemed to have passed) and a second on the revisions to the bill that go to the Senate for reconciliation.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 20, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade


Would you STOP it - you are acting like a baby - you may be entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own FACTS.

You are a little troll - so please go back under the rock you crawled out from.


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

I don't think the "deem and pass" is Constitutional - and this is the reason why:


The Constitution requires that the identical bill pass both Houses of Congress.

However, if the House has one vote - and WITHIN THAT VOTE individual provisions of the original bill are essentially repealed, then the two bills are NOT IDENTICAL.

It is more than amendments, which are add-ons - these are actually provision which CANCEL OUT provisions in the original bill.

So the original bill is getting CHANGED. It is NOT identical. So the "deem and pass" is UNCONSTITUTIONAL - and the whole thing might hinge on WHAT the provisions say.

For instance, some "deem and pass" provisions might be Constitutional.

However, if there is a "deem and pass" rule which contain provisions which CANCEL out provisions in the original bill, then that kind of "deem and pass" would not pass muster.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Cosign 12BB. Given that a government "take-over" of health care is wrong, I would suggest that Republican repeal resolution should include Medicare, Medicaid, and S-CHIP.

Note for 37th. Add presenting proof of a deal between the Democrats and Catholic bishops (I'd prefer to trust a nun) to your list of unproven assertions.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 20, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

@everyone,

Whatever the outcome when the vote on HCR takes place, it has certainly been an exciting time.

The contrast between the ideological reasons for the proponents and opponents couldn't be more stark. The opponents focus on the cost and their assessment that government is inept and should be forced out of healthcare. Proponents focus on opening access to more Americans using the legal force of government.

Assuming the bill passes, that contrast will continue to be exhibited as Republicans make multiple attempts to repeal and take revenge. It will be interesting to see how the R's Repeal and Revenge tactics will poll with the people. How these tactics would change the image of the "Party of No" , I can't imagine.

I am glad to be living in these times, and possibly to be on the eve of historic change.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 20, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Nancy Pelosi just said there will be no side votes - meaning she wants to control the process - and whatever goes into the bill is what goes in the bill.

Obama has a real problem - and AGAIN it is of his own making - the democrats made an agreement with the Catholic Bishops and the democrats went back on their word.


That is something that no one can give them any help with - it was treachery - plain and simple.

Also, Obama has a charge relating to "Lying to Congress" on this one - Obama made a speech to Congress in which he was obviously lying.


We will have to see how it works out - but the LACK OF ATTENTION to this issue over the past month is a major part of what is hurting Obama.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Yes indeed, the political implications for November are what all the fuss is about.

Awhile ago I think it was Andy defended Chief Justice Roberts as a fine jurist. At the time I was wondering if Roberts didn't perhaps have political aspirations, though surely nothing as crass as Clarence Thomas' wife's dalliance with TEA, but maybe we'll see if this court wants to push back on Obama. Do you think the Supremes may decide some issues the opposition has with this bill sooner than November?

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Thanks. The political implications for November are very difficult to predict, I think, assuming the bill passes.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 20, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Are you clear how the immediate coverage for persons with preexisting conditions will play out?

Clear? No. No one is. Like the piece warns, "Only time will tell."

But on this I am clear and comfortable too. Since the effort began I have been saying we can afford this bill, but only after we choose what we are not going to be able to afford, things we seem to think are pretty important right now. The reason I am ok with that is that it is going to happen anyway. We no longer have the national will to impose rational rationing.

"During the year before exchanges are created, individual policies will not be written at any price short of astronomical, right?"

Right. The curve will be bent, that is for sure; it'll look like the Matterhorn as seen from Zermatt.

"Is there a mechanism for front end subsidies in 2010?"

No.

A few days ago I was trying to talk to 12Bar about why companies don't want to sell individual policies. It is simple, car insurance, homeowners insurance, the loss rates are amazingly stable, more important, they are predictable and they are improving. But everybody gets sick and dies and everyone's health is deteriorating. Uninsured individuals buying a policy? Now why would they do that....? People I know have done it when they know, something serious is about to happen. And there is no way to establish the risk of what an individual's end of life care will cost, no matter how they lived their life. Bottom line, the industry likes employer contracts, the bigger the better, because the risk corridors are known.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Shrink, a critical look at the CBO numbers:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/19/checking-the-math-on-health-care/?ref=opinion

Are you clear how the immediate coverage for persons with preexisting conditions will play out? During the year before exchanges are created, individual policies will not be written at any price short of astronomical, right? Is there a mechanism for front end subsidies in 2010?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 20, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

I just thought I would drop this information here anonymously, for the person who screams, threatens and otherwise rages about Barak Obama abusing his *power* all day, every day.

Son, you know who you are.

http://anatomical.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_9781587795459

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

There has never been a "kabuki dance" on major social legislation. This is a first. It would become the only major piece of social legislation with partisan support and bipartisan opposition to pass. That an the unconstitutional methods being used to never actually vote on it.

This corrupt bill requires last minute bribes and threats to pass.

Democrats have a large majority and should be able to pass this easily but they can not because the bill is unpopular and Obama, Pelosi and Reid have been corrupt every step of the way.

Still, even today their is a chance it can fail to pass.

"Word Around Town Is Prospects for a Stupak deal may be collapsing"

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTVhZTViNzQ1NjAyYzI3OTc0NzAwMjBhMGNiMjE2MGI=

Democrats are getting very worried.

This is important because both the Daily Kos and FireDogLake say that the GOP needs to pick up just 1 more Democrat to stop this while Democrats need 6 more votes to pass it.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/3/19/848023/-The-Vote-Counting,-Continued

http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/03/19/teague-a-no-pelosi-would-have-to-run-the-table-without-stupak-bloc/

All in all though, in order for this to pass there will need to be a majority of people in Congress who despise the Constitution and Liberty and who plan to punish hard working Americans with legislation that they do not want.

Since the Democrats hold the majority, there are enough people in that party who hate this country and the will of the American people to pass this thing.

We will just have to wait and see, but I always bet on the selfish Democrats being selfish Democrats.

Posted by: Washington13 | March 20, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse.

Godfather or president?

Posted by: Moonbat | March 20, 2010 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Most of the bloggers on this site have little understanding of the kabuki dance that traditionally takes place on major votes like this. The media has no interest in understanding it and even if they know the probable outcome would not report it because they want to pump up the drama to enhance ratings.

I have a very strong hunch that Pelosi does have more than enough votes but wants to maximize the possibility for giving endangered democrats a pass to vote no. Most of the undecideds are likely going to vote yes but they cannot let anyone know that because that knowledge would poison the entire debate. For example, if a democratic house member comes out and declares too early, he becomes a target the closer they get to a deciding vote.

I also believe that this GOP bravado and intimidation of undecided house democrats is tactical. The truth is that the GOP is terrified of the passage of this bill because of the prestige that will attach to Obama when it passes.

Posted by: jaxas70 | March 20, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

It's the weekend, for chrissakes. This apparent paid blog-spamming has gone from a black psy op to a fetish -- the psychopathology of free speech-hating info-warriors?

Discuss.

http://nowpublic.com/world/how-u-s-spy-ops-censor-web-political-speech
http://nowpublic.com/world/govt-fusion-center-spying-pretext-harass-and-censor

Posted by: scrivener50 | March 20, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

I had Louisville upsetting Duke. Pfooff! went that bracket.

Rules committee meeting at 10 a.m., setting up tomorrow's vote. Live on C-SPAN.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 20, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

DD a 14 destroyed Georgetown, but I thought Maryland were going to turn out to be the tomato cans (sorry terps fans) and Houston played hard...for awhile.

Well at least the great health care industry stimulus bill we've been hearing so much about is going to pass. Like Gail Collins, I'm proud of the President again, not bc he is a winner, no guarantees, but because he plays hard.

Well, wake break over, back to bed,
setting up for a late breakfast
out on the West Coast.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 20, 2010 7:01 AM | Report abuse

MikeK3 - St. Mary's, Gonzaga, Villanova and Xavier?

2 of my 6 ESPN brackets are not in shambles.

Conference standings:

Big 12 5, ACC 4, Big East 4, Big 10 4, SEC 2, PAC 2, WCC 2, MWC 2, A10 1, Horizon 1, MAC 1, CAA 1, MVC 1, OVC 1, Ivy 1

My only upset pick is Australia, I mean, St. Mary's, over 'nova. Really like their team play. A&M over Purdue will not be a "real" upset. If Wake beats KY I will really be p.o.'d about UT at the foul line.

In the Big 12 season, no one liked to play Mizzou, but 5 teams were better than they were. I have to think WVa is well suited to deal with Mizzou.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 20, 2010 6:42 AM | Report abuse

DDAWD


20% of what I say is not right, but you never know which 20%.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 20, 2010 1:45 AM | Report abuse

Well, day two not as good as day 1 (in terms of games and in terms of my bracket. 25 out of 32 overall with three sweet sixteens gone and one elite eight.

Shrink, you're still in our two person competition, although the Houston loss stings for you a bit.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 12:42 AM | Report abuse

And Stupak won't get his language. He can't since it's not allowed by the rules of reconciliation.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 12:10 AM | Report abuse

Don't worry. The public option people will get a chance to vote for it. In a separate bill.

I'm wondering why you bother. No one believes you. And even if you managed to convince us of something that's wrong, it's not going to change the outcome.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 20, 2010 12:08 AM | Report abuse

The whole bill is blowing up - if Stupak gets his language, the pro-choice crowd is going to insist on changing existing federal law - so that is a mess.

Then the public option people are now demanding a chance to get a vote on the public option.

Nancy and Steny are inclined to put all this in the bill, and dump the problem over to Harry Reid to see if he can get the votes.

It is a complete mess.

The bill has blown up - and it's all Obama's fault for not taking care of any of these issues a long, long time ago.


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 11:41 PM | Report abuse

ah, I see.

Man, the weather is awesome here. Kind of makes me wish I lived somewhere sorta safe to walk around in!

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

The word now is that Obama and Nancy are considering caving into Stupak and his crew. Stupak apparently has enough votes to block the passage.

The problem is : now the pro-choice democrats in the House are threatening to vote against the whole package if the Stupak language is included - (SO MUCH FOR THE CLAIM THAT THE ABORTION LANGUAGE IS NOT BEING CHANGED)

So, the entire thing could come down on Nancy's head - which is exactly where they were last October - and no one bothered to resolve these issues.


Then Rep. Grayson is pushing for a vote on the Public Option - it seems that because the House democrats feel they are on their own, and the Senate has decided on reconciliation - that the Public Option should be on the table again.

So, if there are votes on abortion, some are demanding a vote on the Public Option - which might work - a public option with the Stupak language - however tell that to the Senate.


This is all Obama's fault.

Not much has changed on any of these issues since last fall - and it is a complete lack of experience and knowledge on the part of Obama - Obama simply doesn't know what he is doing. Under no other President would you see a few weeks like we have had - and it is Obama's fault.

If you are a democrat and you voted for Obama, it's your fault too.

Take some responsibility for this failure.

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

@ddawd,

It means "you can make money going long (the bulls); you can make money going short (the bears); but you can't make money just being a pig (sort of meaning, just trying to get the last nickel out of a trade)".

I think it was a phrase dreamed up by brokers to tell their clients who were trying to get just a little better price on their trade (or were negotiating for a better brokerage commission--which was commonly done in the era of full service brokers).

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 19, 2010 11:13 PM | Report abuse

I've got no idea what that means.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps 37th is waiting for the manipulators to manipulate it even higher.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 10:50 PM
-----------------------------------
There's a saying on Wall Street.

"The bulls make money, the bears make money, but the pigs never make money."

It took me a long time to figure out this was particularly untrue. LOL.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 19, 2010 10:56 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps 37th is waiting for the manipulators to manipulate it even higher.

The Maryland game is looking pretty good.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 10:50 PM | Report abuse

@ddawd,

Well, it hardly matters whether 37th makes 65, 75, or 85 points. It's all profit if the bill doesn't pass. He says he has traded at Intrade (I personally wouldn't trade manipulated markets, but to each his own), so he can do a short whenever he wants. He better hurry though. Tomorrow is Saturday!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 19, 2010 10:45 PM | Report abuse

because the highest asking price was asking for eight shares.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Well, anyone who thinks it's not going to pass can make an easy $65 selling intrade shares.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 10:26 PM
------------------------
Why 65? Why not 85?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 19, 2010 10:29 PM | Report abuse

"Rep Harry Teague just said he is going to vote NO - that means Obama and Nancy definitely don't have the votes."

Does that mean they didn't have the votes for the first time either? Cause he voted no for that one too.

What is going on with these last games? Are they all going to be blowouts?? When does Maryland start?

Also, I just came back from a 5 mile run. Is it appropriate to start drinking beer?

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 10:28 PM | Report abuse

12 Bar:


Who is dancing with the chicken now ??

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 10:25 PM
-------------------------------
Surely you shorted some contracts, ol' experienced trader. Somebody should make some money out of this bill failing, and I can't think of anyone more worthy than you.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 19, 2010 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Well, anyone who thinks it's not going to pass can make an easy $65 selling intrade shares.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 10:26 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe, ddawd, and 12barblues


You better get to talk with your handlers because the votes are not there - maybe the vote will be postponed a few days - I doubt Stupak and crew are going to move without a firm guarantee, or even a vote, from the Senate first.

Well well well


Stupak is having a news conference tomorrow - I guess to say exactly what he has been saying all along - only this time the people who turned their back on their word will now be listening.

Rep Harry Teague just said he is going to vote NO - that means Obama and Nancy definitely don't have the votes.


12 Bar:


Who is dancing with the chicken now ??

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 10:25 PM | Report abuse

Who is dancing with the chicken now ??


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 10:17 PM
-----------------------
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...let me guess. Is his name CrazyEyes 37th?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 19, 2010 10:20 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe, ddawd, and 12barblues


Rep Harry Teague just said he is going to vote NO - that means Obama and Nancy definitely don't have the votes.


12 Bar:


Who is dancing with the chicken now ??


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 10:17 PM | Report abuse

Voices? That's just his mom hollering down to him in the basement telling him the mac and cheese is ready.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 19, 2010 10:02 PM
---------------------------------
37th must be up there now with his Kraft's in a bowl, choking it down as fast as he can. After all, he's got to rush back down, put that CAPS Lock on, and do battle with the paid bloggers from the White House.

37th used to have allies, but looks like his allies have gotten sick and tired of his crazy schtick and roboposts. So, now he's alone doing battle, bobbing and weaving, and breathing fire on us.

Little did I know when I started posting here, I would be facing down CrazyEyes 37th, who hyperventilates about Intrade.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 19, 2010 10:16 PM | Report abuse

"Isn't that the Charlie Cook false narrative? 43's Iraq War = 44's Health Care Reform. Bizarro World stuff.

Posted by: broadwayjoe"

Cmon, now. I'm not a huge Charlie Cook fan, but he isn't comparing morality here. His point is that Iraq is what Bush will be remembered and judged for throughout history while HCR is what Obama will be remembered for and judged for.

I disagree, but this is a fair point.

The thing with health care is that it will turn out to be so uncontroversial once it is and it is so early on in Obama's term that I don't think it fits the bill of Iraq. Iraq is very controversial and spanned seven years of the Bush Presidency. I think Obama will have something like this, but health care isn't it.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 10:13 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe, ddawd, and 12barblues

Rep Harry Teague just said he is going to vote NO - that means Obama and Nancy definitely don't have the votes.

12 Bar:

Who is dancing with the chicken now ??

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 10:13 PM | Report abuse

And everything is manipulated and only 37th knows what is REALLY going on, because, because...well, because he hears voices.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 19, 2010 9:45 PM
__________

Voices? That's just his mom hollering down to him in the basement telling him the mac and cheese is ready.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 19, 2010 10:02 PM | Report abuse

@broadway and noa

How're we going to split up the shifts for this weekend? Really important we keep the full court press on.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 19, 2010 10:00 PM | Report abuse

34, 35, 36, __, 38, 39...

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 19, 2010 9:57 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Stop it - I know much more than you think.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 9:52 PM
------------------------------------------------
Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prove it.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 19, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Your head is full of rotting brain tissue, 37th.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 19, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

In the middle of all the grandstanding - Obama and Nancy STILL DO NOT HAVE THE VOTES.


Obama is a complete failure.

This vote will probably get postponed into the middle of next week.

AND if there are anti-health care protests on Sunday - one must remember there are pro-illegal alien rallies planned for this weekend too.

OOOHHH this is going to be a good one....

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 9:54 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Stop it - I know much more than you think.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 9:52 PM | Report abuse

37th, I'm less curious about whether this bill will be passed than what you will do with your life once it is.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 8:41 PM
__________

Just speculating but: Joining zouk in his recently revealed "hobby," redeeming smashed soda cans at the grocery store, throwing rocks off highway overpasses, keying new cars in the Wal-Mart parking lot, eating generic mac and cheese four nights in a row, and...well you get the picture.

36 + 1 = 0

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 19, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse


37th, I'm less curious about whether this bill will be passed than what you will do with your life once it is.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 8:41 PM
-------------------------------
37th has a really crazy schtick going here.

After this bill comes to vote, he will still be posting how now CSPAN is lying and covering up that the REAL VOTE didn't happen that way, and the bill was REALLY defeated 435-1.

And we are all bloggers paid by the White House and work on a 24 hour schedule and email each other to wake each other up and take turns at the keyboard.

And everything is manipulated and only 37th knows what is REALLY going on, because, because...well, because he hears voices.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 19, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

If the health care bill is passed, it will be DEFUNDED NEXT YEAR.


WHEN OBAMA IS OUT OF OFFICE IT WILL BE REPEALED.


WHY IN THE WORLD, IN THIS ENVIRONMENT, WOULD THE DEMOCRATS FORCE THEIR OWN MEMBERS TO ACT LIKE LEMMINGS IN A TOYOTA - ?

ALL FOR NOTHING - THE BILL IS GOING TO THE ASHHEAP NOW OR NEXT YEAR - IT DOESN'T MATTER.

No piece of legislation has ever survived in this country without bipartisan support - there is no bipartisan support for this bill.


This bill is GOING ONTO THE TRASHHEAP OF HISTORY WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.


OBAMA IS A FAILURE AS A PRESIDENT.


IF OBAMA LOSES THESE WEEKEND, MAYBE HE CAN GO ONTO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE.


Otherwise, the fight will be for de-funding and REPEAL.


Besides, 38 States don't think they have to implement the bill in any event - so there will be lawsuits.


It will not be over this weekend.


Are you delusional ????


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 9:44 PM | Report abuse

If this bill is passed, it will be DEFUNDED NEXT YEAR.


WHEN OBAMA IS OUT OF OFFICE IT WILL BE REPEALED.


No piece of legislation has ever survived in this country without bipartisan support - there is no bipartisan support for this bill.


This bill is GOING ONTO THE TRASHHEAP OF HISTORY WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.


OBAMA IS A FAILURE AS A PRESIDENT.


IF OBAMA LOSES THESE WEEKEND, MAYBE HE CAN GO ONTO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE.


Otherwise, the fight will be for de-funding and REPEAL.


Besides, 38 States don't think they have to implement the bill in any event - so there will be lawsuits.


It will not be over this weekend.


Are you delusional ????

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 9:31 PM | Report abuse

37, you mentioned Gregory Charles Royal. Who is he and what does he have to do with Palin?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 19, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

The HCR debate is uglier than lying us into war in Iraq?

I don't think so...

Posted by: Noacoler | March 19, 2010 9:04 PM
_________

Isn't that the Charlie Cook false narrative? 43's Iraq War = 44's Health Care Reform. Bizarro World stuff.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 19, 2010 9:14 PM | Report abuse

The HCR debate is uglier than lying us into war in Iraq?

I don't think so...

Posted by: Noacoler | March 19, 2010 9:04 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD


If this bill is passed, it will be DEFUNDED NEXT YEAR.


WHEN OBAMA IS OUT OF OFFICE IT WILL BE REPEALED.

No piece of legislation has ever survived in this country without bipartisan support - there is no bipartisan support for this bill.

This bill is GOING ONTO THE TRASHHEAP OF HISTORY WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.


OBAMA IS A FAILURE AS A PRESIDENT.

IF OBAMA LOSES THESE WEEKEND, MAYBE HE CAN GO ONTO SOMETHING CONTRUCTIVE.

Otherwise, the fight will be for de-funding and REPEAL.

Besides, 38 States don't think they have to implement the bill in any event - so there will be lawsuits.

It will not be over this weekend.

Are you delusional ????


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 9:03 PM | Report abuse


I would like to see you taste what happens in November

==

I'm sure I speak for many when I say I'd like to see you taste a bullet

Posted by: Noacoler | March 19, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Despite the fake dog-and-pony show today - designed to falsely show momentum - Obama and the democrats still do not have the votes.


The worse scene of the day: Elliott Engel trying to say that he was undecided and now a yes - attempting to explain his personal drama - only EVERY LIST HAD HIM A FIRM YES.

Obama and Nancy have been giving us a show all day - they don't have the votes - and they aren't going to have them on Sunday.


It is a mess - they have been out of touch with reality the whole way through.

THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH LEMMINGS IN THE DEMOCRATIC HOUSE CAUCUS WHO ARE WILLING TO GET INTO A TOYOTA FOR OBAMA - THEY ARE SAYING OBAMA MADE HIS OWN MISTAKES, THEY DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR THEM - LET OBAMA PAY FOR HIS OWN MISTAKES AND OVERREACHING.

OBAMA DOES NOT HAVE THE VOTES.

The Stupak situation has been astonishing - they made a deal with Stupak and the Catholic Bishops - they went back on it - and NOW IT IS SUCH A BIG DEAL TO ACTUALLY DO WHAT THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO.


THIEVES IN THE NIGHT.


THIS IS THE MOST PATHETIC AND VULGAR LEGISLATING IN THE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY.

And Obama and the democrats are so low-class, they just don't care.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world has lost all respect for Obama - and they are disrespecting Obama as often as they can.

Can the wonders ever cease ???

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 8:59 PM | Report abuse

We look forward to your follow up stories when Health Care Reform passes and the good that will come out of it as more people get the help they need. A healthy Nation and people can fuel this economy and help the USA recover.

The Republican Party is coming across as a party without a heart. They are forever running for elections and being tone deaf to the wishes of the majority of Americans.

Since this article will be seen worldwide. For those somewhere out there in the world who think we are all crazy when it comes to politics and Democracy I say "This may be one of our finest hours when Health Care Reform passes. Democracy at its best USA style!

MoveOn.org: Democracy in Action

Emergency petition for health care reform

This is it: The fate of health care reform will be decided in the next 48 hours.

It could come down to a vote or two. And that means that right now, every last message to Congress makes a difference.

It's an all-hands-on-deck moment. Even if you've already called and written your representative, it's time to send one last message. If you haven't yet weighed in, now's the time. And please send this on to friends, neighbors, colleagues, former roommates, and anyone who cares about health care reform.

A compiled petition with your individual comment will be presented to your representative.

http://www.moveon.org/

Posted by: cooday | March 19, 2010 8:52 PM | Report abuse

Broadwayjoe


What you are doing is making RACIST charges - which are false.


AND all that is done so you can actually be SEXIST against Sarah Palin

Is that your hope ?


Is that your change?

Is that your version of post-partisan?

Is that your version of bipartisan?


Is that your version of transparency??


No you are just sitting there - typing things in the computer which you would never say to anyone's face.


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 8:51 PM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin will probably suck an elephant's dick on national TV before it's all over. Anything for attention.

She sure is aging fast now

Posted by: Noacoler | March 19, 2010 8:50 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


You are making some sort of immoral claim - that somehow Sarah Palin had some obligation to sleep with Gregory Charles Royal.

Why don't you call your mother and get some morals ??

You are a pathetic little scum - are you going to tell the Washington Post what to write again - you delusional nut.

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 8:46 PM | Report abuse

He won't even miss a beat. He'll just change a few words. And keep right on going. After all, clogging up this blog is his whole life, such as it is.

He seems to actually believe he can manipulate the vote by posting here. And that other posters are coordinating.

Seriously mentally ill.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 19, 2010 8:46 PM | Report abuse

37th, I'm less curious about whether this bill will be passed than what you will do with your life once it is.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

37, one positive mention of BHO in this space in the last...TWO YEARS will never be confused with cheerleading for our President. Just sayin'.

Hey, when is mooned/zouk going to hook you up with his unusual "hobby"?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 19, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

¡¡¡IRONY ALERT #2!!!

I keep people on topic - repetition accomplishes that sometimes.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 8:06 PM | Report abuse

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 19, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse

- They are still calculating 7 years of benefits against 10 years of taxes - if a publicly-traded business did that, they would be in jail for securities fraud.


- They still have $500 Billion from Medicare counted twice


- and they still have not counted in the doctors fix 225 Billion


It is unbelievable - the deceptions, the lies - just to pass this thing.


If they can't pass it without lying, they have no business even trying.


I just refuse to believe that this level of lying and deception has ever been around the passage of legislation in the history of the country.


Yea, Obama is "making history" for lying and deception around the passage of federal legislation.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD


Grow up - you can celebrate when the democrats figure out how to pay for the bill.


I would like to see you taste what happens in November


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse

CREATION OF A

MASSIVE hair don't.


GENERALLY AGREED that it looks awful.


She's TRYING TO DECEIVE us with extensions and those hair wraps you put at the back of your head.


HOW MUCH is this EGO TRIP COSING US?


ugly CHEERLEADER hair she is too old for.


HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE to comb out?

.


.


.


Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 19, 2010 8:16 PM
_____________

I think some of Gregory Charles Royal's female friends could have hooked her up, too. :)

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 19, 2010 8:33 PM | Report abuse

margaretmeyers


You really don't cut it.

I want to say "nice try" but it was too ugly.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 8:31 PM | Report abuse

can't you guys just taste this? Less than 48 hours now!

Perhaps the most important legislation in the last 30 years?

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Broadwayjoe


I see you are trying to tell Chris and the Washington Post what to write again.

Are you really that delusional, that they should listen to you ???

You are not an editor at the Washington Post - although you apparently think you are better than them all.

Go take your checks and get lost.


Put broadwayjoe in his place. Check.


Called out broadwayjoe on his delusional thinking. Check

Recommended broadwayjoe go to a doctor.


not yet.


.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

CREATION OF A

MASSIVE hair don't.

GENERALLY AGREED that it looks awful.


She's TRYING TO DECEIVE us with extensions and those hair wraps you put at the back of your head.


HOW MUCH is this EGO TRIP COSING US?


ugly CHEERLEADER hair she is too old for.


HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE to comb out?

.

.

.


Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 19, 2010 8:16 PM | Report abuse

This vote is by no means certain - Obama and Nancy just wasted the week trying to do it without Stupak.


Now Obama is back to Stupak.

The problem with Stupak is the same problem as a month ago: Stupak wants the abortion language to go through the Senate.

Anyway, Obama is taking pieces of speeches directly from Clinton - which is pathetic, write your own material.

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THIS HEALTH CARE BILL - OBAMA IS DESTROYING HIS OWN PARTY OVER THIS BILL - COME NOVEMBER DEMOCRATS UP AND DOWN THE TICKET ARE GOING TO BE IN A DISASTER.

OBAMA IS JUST LOOKING AT CONGRESS.

OBAMA DOESN'T CARE AT ALL WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DOWNTICKET DEMOCRATS.

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of health care...Fess Parker died.

Still remember Fess as Davy promising his sidekick George Russell to give em "whats fer," and then climbing to the top of the Alamo to clobber about ten attackers with the butt of Ol' Betsy, his rifle. A far cry from Billy Bob Thornton's embarrassing performance as Crockett decades later.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 19, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

THE DECEPTIONS AND LIES OF OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS DID NOT TAKE LONG TO COME OUT

The Congressional Budget Office said Friday that rolling back a programmed cut in Medicare fees to doctors would cost $208 billion over 10 years. If added back to the health care overhaul bill, it would wipe out all the deficit reduction, leaving the legislation $59 billion in the red.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 8:07 PM | Report abuse

Margaret -


I keep people on topic - repetition accomplishes that sometimes.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Palin's hair looks so BAD because she hates gay man, so she has to have her hair done by Wasila's best, and she ends up with a big old TEA Party Mullet: Ellie Mae in the front, Mary Ann in the back (nothing in between).

There, 37th. A posting of substance.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 19, 2010 8:03 PM | Report abuse

Where's mooned/zouk? We'd like to hear more about his "avocation" (as exposed by several superpatriots here yesterday). Maybe zouk can include 37 in his "hobby." :)

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 19, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse


THE DECEPTIONS AND LIES OF OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS DID NOT TAKE LONG TO COME OUT

The Congressional Budget Office said Friday that rolling back a programmed cut in Medicare fees to doctors would cost $208 billion over 10 years. If added back to the health care overhaul bill, it would wipe out all the deficit reduction, leaving the legislation $59 billion in the red.

.


Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

JRM2


Obama is trying to do something with the Federal government that it WAS NEVER INTENDED TO DO - THAT IS ABUSE.

Obama is lying to the public about the costs of the program - THAT IS ABUSE.

Obama is lying to the public about the abortion provisions - THAT IS ABUSE.

38 STATES ARE THREATENING LEGAL ACTIONS AGAINST THIS BILL - THAT IS ABUSE.


You can take your lies and deceptions elsewhere.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

oh, wow. I just assumed 37th was making the whole thing up.

Chris, can you see to banning 37+o? His incessant posting of the same thing repeatedly is really annoying.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

THE DECEPTIONS AND LIES OF OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS DID NOT TAKE LONG TO COME OUT

The Congressional Budget Office said Friday that rolling back a programmed cut in Medicare fees to doctors would cost $208 billion over 10 years. If added back to the health care overhaul bill, it would wipe out all the deficit reduction, leaving the legislation $59 billion in the red.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 7:48 PM | Report abuse

"Making the rounds of Democrat Offices on Capitol Hill is a ‘messaging’ memo designed to help Democrat members navigate a politically dangerous environment....
.
Posted by: 37thand0street | "
That message has been proven to be a fraud, just like you. It came from Boehner's office.

Posted by: JRM2 | March 19, 2010 7:40 PM | Report abuse

37thand0street: There is no "abuse" here, there is nothing that is being done that hasn't been done before all in line with congressional procedural rules. It's not illegal and certainly not immoral. It is how American makes laws, as ugly as it is sometimes.

The lives and livelihoods of thousands, possibly millions of people are at stake here, that is not something to abuse or be trifled with.

I have very good private health insurance, if I am taxed more to help my fellow Americans help form a better and healthier society, then so be it, I am willing.

You don't have to be so selfish, money isn't everything, it won't bring you happiness, but your mom might bring you a sandwich to the basement if you say the magic word.

Posted by: JRM2 | March 19, 2010 7:37 PM | Report abuse

There is GENERAL AGREEMENT around the country that this health care bill is the GREATEST ABUSE OF GOVERNMENT POWER IN THE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY.


It is clear.


First, Obama's platform was NOT understand to include the CREATION OF A MASSIVE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM WITH MASSIVE NEW TAXES. This is the very definition of overreach.


Second, there is overwhelming opposition among the public for this bill.


Yet, Obama has persisted in pushing this bill through - Against all commentary recommending that he concentrate on the economy and jobs - Against the best judgeement of people all over his own party - Against all counsel of democratic pollsters writing in the Washington Post.


Obama has risked the destruction of the democratic party.


The thing is democrats all over the country are wondering why - why is this happening - and the only answer is this is a giant ego trip on the part of Obama -


HOW MUCH IS OBAMA'S EGO TRIP GOING TO COST YOU ?????


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 7:35 PM | Report abuse

There goes broadwayjoe again - trying to tell the Washington Post what to print.


Today broadwayjoe is trying to tell Chris Cillizza that he should "write something positive" about Obama.

broadwayjoe essentially thinks Chris Cillizza should be a CHEERLEADER FOR OBAMA.... EVERYDAY.

Anything less is not acceptable to broadwayjoe.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 7:34 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade


You can stuff it too

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 7:32 PM | Report abuse

¡¡¡IRONY ALERT!!!

"You can both stuff it - why don't you stick to posting substance - instead of complaining about other posters.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse"

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 19, 2010 7:03 PM | Report abuse

There's nothing substantive in your hysterical posts, 37th, and certainly not in issuing them over and over. But you seem incapable of bleary thought, and it's clear as could be that your brain had been permanently damaged. Probably by drugs.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 19, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse


I guess there's no last minute high stakes debate on the use of non professional gatekeepers to limit costs in the Bill's new Medicare policy? That's alright with every politician UNTIL constituents are told that they are too old for a kidney and their Representative pulls out the old Kerry imitation about being was against it before they were for it.

Posted by: thecannula | March 19, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

One check today:

No positive mention of the 44th President of the United States. Check.

[But, on the positive side, no Charlie Cook ad/mention, cherry picked polls, "GOP comeback" false narrative, or free GOP attack ad embed.]
________________

We'll be glad when on Sunday (or soon) they, at long last, vote HCR up or down. This should have happened through some procedural route seven or more months ago. BHO and the Dems need to start hitting back and stop bluffing (see Gene Robinson's column today). If you are going to do recess appointments or abolish the filibuster or "deem and pass" some bill--just do it and stop talking about it.
____________

BTW, great HuffPo piece today on Palin kinda flipping her wig.........literally.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/19/sarah-palins-wig-tvs-newe_n_505988.html

Posted by: broadwayjoe | March 19, 2010 6:57 PM | Report abuse

There is GENERAL AGREEMENT around the country that this health care bill is the GREATEST ABUSE OF GOVERNMENT POWER IN THE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY.


It is clear.


First, Obama's platform was NOT understand to include the CREATION OF A MASSIVE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM WITH MASSIVE NEW TAXES. This is the very definition of overreach.


Second, there is overwhelming opposition among the public for this bill.


Yet, Obama has persisted in pushing this bill through - Against all commentary recommending that he concentrate on the economy and jobs - Against the best judgeement of people all over his own party - Against all counsel of democratic pollsters writing in the Washington Post.


Obama has risked the destruction of the democratic party.


The thing is democrats all over the country are wondering why - why is this happening - and the only answer is this is a giant ego trip on the part of Obama -


HOW MUCH IS OBAMA'S EGO TRIP GOING TO COST YOU ?????


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse


The democrats are TRYING TO DECEIVE AND LIE THEIR WAY THROUGH THIS VOTE:


Making the rounds of Democrat Offices on Capitol Hill is a ‘messaging’ memo designed to help Democrat members navigate a politically dangerous environment where the public is united in opposition to their government take-over of health care. Key message:

“do not allow yourself (or your boss) to get into a discussion of the details of CBO scores and textual narrative. Instead, focus only on the deficit reduction and number of Americans covered.”

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 6:45 PM | Report abuse

margaretmeyers and ovechken

You can both stuff it - why don't you stick to posting substance - instead of complaining about other posters.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse

hissy-fit is a very good way to describe 37th's posts. That and I often picture an indignant, scolding church lady who cannot say anything once and must go from place to place, repeating herself and looking for confirmation.

37th's a bit of a granny. No fun at all, at all.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 19, 2010 6:42 PM | Report abuse

37thandO:

You are on this website 24 hours a day, whining like a spoiled rotten child.

It must be nice to sit around on your duff all day like you do.. But to spend every minute of it spewing off continual hissy-fit rants (often time cutting & pasting the same blather) is really a disservice to The Fix blog.

Try some fresh air and exercise sometime.

Posted by: ovechkin | March 19, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse


The democrats are TRYING TO DECEIVE AND LIE THEIR WAY THROUGH THIS VOTE:


Making the rounds of Democrat Offices on Capitol Hill is a ‘messaging’ memo designed to help Democrat members navigate a politically dangerous environment where the public is united in opposition to their government take-over of health care. Key message:

“do not allow yourself (or your boss) to get into a discussion of the details of CBO scores and textual narrative. Instead, focus only on the deficit reduction and number of Americans covered.”


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Republicans tried to outlaw Deem and Pass. Democrats rejected the proposal. If Dems really didn't want to vote for the health care bill, they could have passed through D+P.

This is a done deal. Game over.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

The democrats are TRYING TO DECEIVE AND LIE THEIR WAY THROUGH THIS VOTE:

Making the rounds of Democrat Offices on Capitol Hill is a ‘messaging’ memo designed to help Democrat members navigate a politically dangerous environment where the public is united in opposition to their government take-over of health care. Key message:

“do not allow yourself (or your boss) to get into a discussion of the details of CBO scores and textual narrative. Instead, focus only on the deficit reduction and number of Americans covered.”


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse

"Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans win." — Gary Lineker.

Seriously, England's had the talent for the last dozen years, but nerves and coaching failed them. [That and THAT red card in 1998.] They're a good pick for the semis.

A - Mexico and France (the host ALWAYS moves forward, so this is a potential shocker).

B - Argentina and Nigeria. Count on Nigeria to go deep.

C - England & USA USA USA USA.

D - Germany & Serbia (sorry, Ghana)

E - Netherlands & Cameroon

F - Italy & Slovakia

G - Brazil & Portugal (group of death)

H - Spain and… Buehler? Buehler? I'll give Chile a sentimental pick.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 19, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Don't be so surprised that G-town lost to "a Harangody-less Notre Dame team." When Harangody was out, that's when Notre Dame was at its best.

Now with Marquette also out, are there any big Catholic colleges still in the tourney?

Posted by: MikeK3 | March 19, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

It appears that Obama and the democrats are running right up against the Stupak crew - the democrats do not have the votes - Stupak holds the key to the whole health care bill.


There are about 20 democrats who are hoping that Stupak is successful - they want a chance to vote no.


Obama cares about "making history" - the Congressmen care about getting re-elected this fall.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Let's face it: the democrats are basically stalled on the health care bill - nothing has really changed in the past two weeks - the same difficulties are the same difficulties.

Obama is off at George Mason - he is not on the telephone or even on Capitol Hill - what is ANOTHER rally going to accomplish ???


Nancy and Obama really are at the exact same point they were two weeks ago - which is also where they were last October.

Instead, the week has been highlighted by PR mistakes on the part of demcorats with the "deem and pass" - and a CBO report which is certain to be picked apart.


We will have to see what happens - however Nancy may be getting upset with Obama - and may just throw the whole mess in his lap and tell him to get his own votes. The basic truth is still: WHY IN THE WORLD ARE THE DEMOCRATS ASKING THEIR OWN MEMBERS TO ACT LIKE LEMMINGS IN A TOYOTA ???


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Ugh, Rooney. Ever since the Portugal game from four years ago, I've been done with him. He's dead to me.

Soccer fans, is any reason I should change my mind? Has he rehabbed himself?

Posted by: DDAWD | March 19, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

There is GENERAL AGREEMENT around the country that this health care bill is the GREATEST ABUSE OF GOVERNMENT POWER IN THE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY.


It is clear.


First, Obama's platform was NOT understand to include the CREATION OF A MASSIVE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM WITH MASSIVE NEW TAXES. This is the very definition of overreach.


Second, there is overwhelming opposition among the public for this bill.


Yet, Obama has persisted in pushing this bill through - Against all commentary recommending that he concentrate on the economy and jobs - Against the best judgeement of people all over his own party - Against all counsel of democratic pollsters writing in the Washington Post.


Obama has risked the destruction of the democratic party.


The thing is democrats all over the country are wondering why - why is this happening - and the only answer is this is a giant ego trip on the part of Obama -


HOW MUCH IS OBAMA'S EGO TRIP GOING TO COST YOU ?????


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 19, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

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