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Ga. gubernatorial hopeful's new ad puts gender in the spotlight

By Felicia Sonmez

A female candidate for governor in Georgia is up with her first TV ad of the Republican primary, a 30-second spot that highlights her position as the lone woman in the four-way race.

"Three with iffy ethics. One who wears lipstick. Three who look after themselves. One who looks after you," says the narrator of former Georgia Secretary of State Karen Handel's (R) new ad, which contrasts her against her three male opponents in the July 20 primary.

Handel is competing against state Insurance Commissioner John Oxendine, former Rep. Nathan Deal and former state Senate Majority Leader Eric Johnson for the GOP nod. A late June SurveyUSA poll showed Oxendine leading the field with 34 percent, while Deal and Handel are tied at 17-18 percent for a spot in the Aug. 10 runoff. (A poll released Friday afternoon shows Handel at 23 percent and Deal and Johnson at 12 percent.)

The ad hits on Handel's theme of "ethical leadership" while highlighting her biography: it notes that she left an abusive home at 17 and "worked herself all the way to the White House," a reference to her tenure as deputy chief of staff to former Vice President Dan Quayle's wife, Marilyn (who is also the narrator of the ad). The ad also takes a shot at the frontrunner, Oxendine. "Karen's tougher than an ox, but with a heart that comes from a life beating the odds," the narrator says over an on-screen image of an ox wearing lipstick.

The spot starts airing Monday and will run for at least a week in the Atlanta media market, which encompasses about 60 percent of the Republican primary vote, according to Handel's campaign. It was produced by consultant Fred Davis, the media whiz behind such ads as Sen. John McCain's (R-Ariz.) "Celeb" ad in 2008, former Hewlett Packard CEO Carly Fiorina's (R) "demon sheep" ad and the 1998 "King Roy" Web video portraying then-Georgia Gov. Roy Barnes (D) as a giant rat. (Worth noting: Barnes is running for his old office this year, and Oxendine's camp has gone up with its own Web ad riffing on Davis' "King Roy" theme.)

In an interview with The Fix Friday, Davis explained that the ad "had to really stand out" since it would be Handel's first in the race, and that the best way to do that would be to highlight the candidate's differences with her rivals, in terms of both gender and ethics.

"I also wanted, somehow, to put lipstick on an ox," Davis added, noting that the lipstick theme was not a reference to Sarah Palin's now-famous remark in 2008 that lipstick was "the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull."

Davis said that while some similarities can be drawn between Handel's race and that of South Carolina gubernatorial nominee Nikki Haley (R) (who also faced three male candidates in her primary bid and used her TV ads to draw sharp contrasts with her opponents), ultimately Handel differs from both Haley and Palin in that she has typically steered away from drawing attention to her gender in the past.

"Sometimes, I'm not sure if Karen even remembers she's a female," Davis said. "She sees herself as just as strong and tough as any one of the guys." The ad, Davis noted, was not meant as an attempt to reach out to women specifically, but rather as an attempt to draw contrasts.

Handel spokesman Dan McLagan also downplayed the gender aspect of the ad, noting that while many have begun calling 2010 the "year of the woman," "we think of it more as the year of the outsider."

"Karen's campaign from the beginning has been one of the outsider who can challenge the status quo and somebody who can clean up the mess under the Gold Dome at the state capitol," McLagan added.

Deal's campaign, meanwhile, contended that the idea of Handel as an outsider is laughable.

"I don't see how somebody who's been in elected office for the last 10 years can make that case," Deal spokesperson Brian Robinson said. Rather than an outsider, Robinson added, Handel is "a quitter" who left college as well as her positions as Fulton County Commissioner and secretary of state.

"Voters need to ask themselves, what is Karen Handel going to quit to run for next time?" Robinson said. (McLagan responded that Deal quit Congress "in order to prevent the publication of a report accusing him of ethical misdeeds.")

In contrast to Handel's ad, Deal's first TV spot, which went up this week, focuses on illegal immigration and Deal's conservative record. "I wrote the law to stop illegal aliens from receiving taxpayer-funded health care, cut billions in wasteful spending and voted against Obamacare," Deal says in the ad.

Robinson argued that while Deal's ad is focused on the issues, Handel "has been running a Seinfeld campaign -- it's a campaign about nothing."

Oxendine manager Stephen Puetz said that it's "not surprising" that Handel "would use her first ad to launch a negative attack, especially when she has to run from her liberal record." (Handel's spokesperson called such criticism "a bit surprising" and noted that Oxendine sought to become a Democratic delegate for Al Gore in 1988.)

Fundraising reports released this week show that Handel has made up ground in the money race, but still lags far behind Oxendine, who has $1.8 million in the bank compared to Deal's $670,000, Handel's $640,000 and Johnson's $613,000.

By Felicia Sonmez  |  July 9, 2010; 3:42 PM ET
Categories:  Governors  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: W.Va. Gov. Joe Manchin set to run for Byrd's seat; GOP seeks direction
Next: AFL-CIO goes in the field in 23 states

Comments

Give up, 12Bar, zouk is so preoccupied with his hatred of a few posters on this blog and of Obama that he can't even finish a sentence without invoking a string of stupid caricatures.

Yeah it's possible for certain people with lots of free time (meaning jobs that don't leave them beat at the end of the day and lives relatively free of care like children and illnesses) to make more money on investments that on social security. For a lot of people, though, and probably for most people, the investments would dribble away, to say nothing of the fact that they would be in direct competition with investors who do this crap all day every day. Privatizing SS is a way to fleece people.

And, this is the part that the pioneer spirit types don't like to hear, it's unreasonable to expect people to make sound decisions all the time and keep it up year after year. The best thing about the SS system (donning asbestos gear) is that it's an involuntary tax. You don't pay only when you're feeeling responsible, you pay even in the worst of your times, paycheck in and paycheck out, and there's no psyching oneself up to think for the future.

It appeals to the conceit of some conservatives that they're all self-reliant an' stuff and gives them an excuse to deride others who slip and fail and who don't always act responsibly as they might, but it's good public policy to compete people to save for the future even if it doesn't feed conservative conceit.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 12, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

FYI

All,

1. Ceflynline and Fairlinton: Thanks for your thoughtfulness and patience. I believe that the comments section will get better sooner rather than later so hopefully it will be rewarded.

2. 37th/Heatwave has been banned AGAIN. Not sure what else I can do other than keep banning him. And he will continue to return under other names.

3. ChrisFox/Noa: The comparison between you and 37th is based on your desire to return repeatedly under other names despite being banned. I continue to be baffled as to why you spend so much time getting back to a blog you disdain so much but that's another conversation.

4. To everyone else: Commenting on blogs remains very much a work in progress. The Post's goal is to allow as free a discussion as possible without permitting personal attacks and other online savagery. It seems a pretty easy goal to meet. Treat people online like you would offline.

Chris

Posted by: mariewilson11 | July 12, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

I knew Karen Handel will be a major player in this governor's race. Handel is apparently the choosen successor for Gov. Perdue. She isn't exactly an outsider, but noone in this race is. These are all old pros. Deal may be the most ethically challenged of the 3. I think the run-off will likely be Oxendine vs. Handel. That will be a tough race, but which ever prevails will be the front runner in the GE.

Posted by: reason5 | July 12, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

I DID pay for them, 12Bar. I paid into the SS fund my whole life. If in 5 years it's not there for me, there will be hell to pay.

I will not allow republicans to steal my retirement.

Posted by: drindl | July 12, 2010 9:12 AM | Report abuse

noacolor I personally remember the day the Barton story broke and there was absolutely
no thread here about it. I posted at least
5 nasty comments directed to CC about ignoring the story and finally 48 hours later they relented under a barage of attacks against The Fix and actually published a mild Barton rebuke. We are constanly lectured about how this site is a leftist conspiracy when in reality its editors, moderators(what a joke),
and the majority of posts have become nothing more than a shill for the GOP. G++ Help them if they would just occasionally run a story about 'A' GOP candidate struglling, Rand Paul in a bright red state is barely a few point up as is Rick Perry in another bright red state and Sharon Angel and all we hear about are D problems, as though the GOP has none. The Ryan proposal is the equivalent of a D proposing proposing 100% tax rate, could you image the screeching you would hear and the glaring thread CC would publish here, but the Ryan insane proposal gets absolutely zero coverage. CC thinks the GOP takeover of Congress is a slam dunk, far from it, but you wouldn't know that visiting The Fix.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 12, 2010 9:01 AM | Report abuse

"Why are we not discussing GOP plans to repeal Medicare rather than some lame R gub

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 11, 2010 10:24 PM"
______________

Because we're talking about Karen Handel.

BTW, who is she? LOL.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 12, 2010 7:46 AM | Report abuse

Looks like lonely loser Ped has finally blown a gasket.

Posted by: Moonbat | July 12, 2010 7:27 AM | Report abuse

L1 and noa have raised important questions about the points this blog, which is not someone's personal Facebook, but is a platform sponsored by our national political paper of reocord.

At some point folks in PostWorld will take note of the blog's dysfunctionality, see negative reaction to Fix Hillary video. If Post blogger Dave Weigel can get canned/separated by the Post for personal snarky emails about Drudge, some scrutiny by Post management of this blog, with its relentless anti-BHO bent (two positive mentions of the President in two years), seems warranted.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 12, 2010 7:21 AM | Report abuse

Looks like the democratic Governors aren't too happy with Obama filing that illegal immigration lawsuit.

Perhaps Harry Reid - in a three way race - led Obama down the wrong road.

Obama has made ANOTHER SERIOUS MISTAKE filing this illegal immigration lawsuit.


If the application of the law is confined to persons already stopped for another reason, there really is NOTHING Obama can do in Court.

Seems that the hysteria of the hispanic groups have twisted the law around - made it seem like people would be stopped without another reason at work.

And thereby, Obama got suckered into the lawsuit.

It really is amazing - Holder and crew said they did NOT read the law.

Only 12 pages.

Meanwhile - Obama is working on ANOTHER 2000 PAGE BILL FULL OF SECRET PROVISIONS.

Obama is a guy who is making serious mistakes - hurting the country as well as his own party.


Obama is incompetent - he is destroying the democratic party.


Anyway - the democrats were so HAPPY to ignore experience and qualifications when evaluating and voting for Obama.

Seems like the whole idea behind affirmative action - anyone can do ANY job - without experience and without qualifications.

It is this leftist arrogance -

Now the country is stuck with a guy in there who has no idea what he is doing - and we have to keep a running list of all the mistakes he is making because there are so many of them.


Remember - you democrats voted for this guy.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 12, 2010 4:31 AM | Report abuse

The democrats have backed themselves into a corner


One cannot run around for years saying Bush lied, Bush lied.

And then have a platform full of deceptions like Obama had in 2008.

Obama's deceptions are dragging down the entire democratic party.

Everytime Obama twists something around - like the "ant" comment - or everytime you twist something around - more people walk away from the democrats.


This is the kind of "walking away" that the democrats are not going to get back.

It is going to be virtually impossible for Obama to get these people back and get them to support him.

It started with the health care in January - the entire country told Obama they didn't want it - and Obama decided he was going to continue to be arrogant.

When someone acts like that - no one wants to give them a second chance.

AND then Obama decides to pull his "FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM" at the passage of the bill - like the opposition was all about racism.

Well - that was all about Obama being a child.

You can take your civil rights analogy and jump in the river for all the country cares.

Health care is not civil rights.

Obama has lost his way - leichtman belongs in a straightjacket after this medicare rant tonight.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 12, 2010 4:22 AM | Report abuse

Why leichtman could it possibly be any less obvious?  This blog isn't about reporting, it's not about what's important, the function of this blog is to blow sunshine up the great Republican ạss.

Remember the day HCR passed?  Was the story here about HCR?  No, it was a picture of some grinning jerk and the story was "Dan Coats, the Anti-Obama."  When Cillizza finally got around to mentioning HCR it was as though through clenched teeth, with not a word about how bitterly his precious fụcking Republican Party fought it and lost.  

When Rep. Barton was the lead story in every paper in the country, what was the lead story here?  Tim Pawlenty, a Republican governor nobody cares about, endorses a Republican governor nobody ever heard of.

Cillizza is so loyal to his fụcking Republican Party he has his head up his ạss.  Just look at the brainless trolling his gives a pass to because it's anti-Obama trolling.

No point trying to bring him around, nor to point out what a lousy fụcking job he's doing, just record all these lousy priorities and report to the Post and urge his replacement with someone who reports what's important instead of acting like a slavishly servile stenographer for the GOP.

Karen Handel may be a decent enough sort but why is an ad campaign for a trailing Republican gubernatorial candidate more important than anything else that should appear here  

This paper has become a stale joke.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 12, 2010 1:14 AM | Report abuse

Why is it 12Bar that the Fix does not write a thread on these kinds of whacko GOP proposals
like Ryan's proposal to end the current Medicare system and I have to find the story
on the front page of the LA Times? 37th can screech and use two year like name calling techniques all he wants, but yet the reality is that the Ryan proposal is still out there along with Boehner's proposal to raise the SS age to 70, and the GOP certainly doesn't want voters to know of these proposals until AFTER the election.
Why is it that The Fix is complicit in covering up these proposals and would rather divert us with garbage threads about a fifth tier GOP primary.
Lets see discussing GOP proposals about Medicare and SS or Karen Handel's lame tv
commercial? Which story has more relevance CC
for November's election? Why should those 2 GOP proposals not be election issues since neither Boehner nor Ryan have distanced themselves from either of these actual policy proposals?

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 12, 2010 12:05 AM | Report abuse

37 SHUT THE FỤCK UP

Posted by: Noacoler | July 11, 2010 11:44 PM | Report abuse

I can tell you one thing. When politicians start calling Medicare and Social Security entitlements they are in trouble with the folks receiving SS/Medicare who figure they paid for those benefits.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 11:44 PM | Report abuse

"mmarket forces" to lower costs. Same idiotic religious snake oil. Thinking money. The genie of transactions.

These guys belong in straitjackets. What kind of idiot believes that junk? Aside from George Will and zouk?

Posted by: Noacoler | July 11, 2010 11:34 PM | Report abuse

Yet Republican leaders are wary of endorsing it, and for understandable reasons. The road map is sweeping and politically risky. It would overhaul popular programs like Medicare, relying on individuals to make decisions now made by government.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Republicans-should-embrace-Paul-Ryan_s-Road-Map-98201434.html#ixzz0tR2QOPlv

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Leichtman


Why don't you grab some flashlights and start running around outside screaming what you just wrote.

Im sure they will come after you with a straightjacket fast enough.


Why do they allow internet access in mental institutions ?

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 11:27 PM | Report abuse

In an exchange during the health care debate, Representative Louise Slaughter (D–NY) told Ryan that his “plan is to phase out Medicare.” Slaughter had it totally backwards—Medicare, and the other entitlements, are on the road to collapse without reform. The federal government simply cannot fulfill its unfunded promises without going bankrupt and causing an economic meltdown.

The Roadmap offers a solution to this and the other realities of out-of-control government spending. Ferguson says of the Roadmap, “It seems to me actually our best hope.”

Same link to heritage

Looks like leichtman is NOT wrong.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 11:25 PM | Report abuse

Bloomberg Businessweek points out that “at least one congressman is doing just that—and learning how lonely it can be crusading for real change.” That congressman is Paul Ryan (R–WI), who released the second version of his Roadmap for America earlier this year, which includes health care reform, entitlement reform, and tax reform.

How does the Roadmap achieve all this? Medicare and Medicaid are transformed into voucher programs, giving beneficiaries the ability to choose their own health insurance and allowing market forces to lower costs.

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/07/08/rep-paul-ryan-walks-the-walk-on-fiscal-reform/

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 11:23 PM | Report abuse

Read the Paul Ryan plan before you once again shoot your mouth off That is precisely what Paul Ryan is proposing. You don t like his plan, then complain to Paul Ryan.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 11, 2010 11:23 PM | Report abuse

Leichtman is so desperate for an issue - he is making things up now

What a sick and pathetic person.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 11:19 PM | Report abuse

Leichtman


You are a LIAR - no one wants to repeal Medicare

This is how the democrats operate ?

The democratic party: We scare the seniors.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 11:15 PM | Report abuse

read that story about Paul Ryan s proposal to end and privatize Medicare a few minutes ago on LA Times web site Boehner is squirming about Ryan s proposal but voters need to know about this GOP proposal along with their proposal to raise the SS age to 70 before Nov.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 11, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

leichtman, where does it say that? On that roadmap website?

Posted by: DDAWD | July 11, 2010 11:02 PM | Report abuse

California s Anthem must be licking their chops over this news about Medicare and the GOP.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 11, 2010 10:48 PM | Report abuse

The dirty little secret is out tonight. The GOP and Paul Ryan are proposing they want to repeal Medicare. Many of us have always suspecteed that was the goal of the GOP but never thought they would have the balls to admit it. Seniors beware. The GOP if they take over the House intend to put Repeal of Medicare at the top of their agenda. You think I am making this up, just google Paul Ryan legislative plan.
Why are we not discussing GOP plans to repeal Medicare rather than some lame R candidate who absolutely no one here cares one bit about.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 11, 2010 10:29 PM | Report abuse

The dirty little secret is out tonight. The. GOP and Paul Ryan are proposing they want to repeal Medicare. Many of us have always presumed that was the goal of the GOP but never thought they would have the balls to admit that. Seniors beware. The GOP if they take over the House intend to put Repeal of Medicare at the top of their agenda. You think I am making this up, just google Paul Ryan legislative plan.
Why are we not discussing GOP plans to repeal Medicare rather than some lame R gub

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 11, 2010 10:24 PM | Report abuse

The dirty little secret is out tonight. The. GOP and Paul Ryan are proposing they want to repeal Medicare. Many of us have always presumed that was the goal of the GOP but never thought they would have the balls to admit that. Seniors beware. The GOP if they take over the House intend to put Repeal of Medicare at the top of their agenda. You think I am making this up, just google Paul Ryan legislative plan.
Why are we not discussing GOP plans to repeal Medicare rather than some lame R gub

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 11, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Two insults for the price of one. Have to be economical in these hard times.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Goes to show that some sites have good IT people, even if the WaPo isn't one of them.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Oh 12bar you *fiend*

37th is probably barricading the door with piles of empty meth vials.

Interesting link. I like the part about blocking it for known opponents.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 11, 2010 10:01 PM | Report abuse

www.blackliberationtheology.org/presidential_proclamation.html

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 9:40 PM | Report abuse

July is Black Liberation Theology Month.

What a coincidence.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler apparently agrees.

Obama's real plan is to bankrupt the whites in the country - so the blacks can get even.

I suppose that is the only way the blacks think they can get economic equality - to drag the whites down.

Sure starts to explain why Obama doesn't care about the 1.3 Trillion dollar deficit - which is unsustainable.

And why Obama is so obsessed with adding to the deficit with his health care bill.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Do you think that is Obama's real plan - to bankrupt the white population of the country - just so the blacks can get even ? Sure seems like it.

==

You can stick this racist shijt right back up your ạss where you got it you fujcking junkie filth


Posted by: Noacoler | July 11, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

BWJ @ 6:33:

CC keep his word? A Republican? Are you nuts?

He likes this logjam of tụrds that 37th drops here.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 11, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

The problem with this blog is not enough people are talking about how horrible Obama is.


The leftists just want to distract the country away from the truth that Obama has failed to deliver on his promises.


The sooner the leftists accept that Obama is a failed President, the sooner the nation can get back to healing - and we can build a wonderful American which includes everyone, not just the far-left and their wacky ideas.

And we can balance the budget - and not put the future of this nation at risk.


Do you think that is Obama's real plan - to bankrupt the white population of the country - just so the blacks can get even ? Sure seems like it.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 8:33 PM | Report abuse

All we get is immaturity from the leftists here - like they are a group of second grade girls running a clique.

actual childish behavior.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe,


Your story betrays your true feelings.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 8:20 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe,


Your story betrays your true feelings.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Man, Sharon Angle is a pretty crappy speaker.

Posted by: DDAWD | July 11, 2010 7:24 PM | Report abuse

While you are still here, 37, a question: do you know whether Gregory Charles Royal has asked Phalin if she has changed her "policy" since they last met. Many are rooting for Royal and Phalin. I know you are one of them. Tell the truth.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 11, 2010 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Flowers/Weeds, if our "gracious host" keeps his word, an IT man/woman will come in with some industrial strength weed killer for you tomorrow at 8:15am.

34, 35, 36, __, 38, 39,...

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 11, 2010 6:33 PM | Report abuse

noa, I think the Post h as the worst tech people in the media business. But it's just another way they are sinking into a rightwing rag.


12Bar -- good to have you to talk to, too!

Posted by: drindl | July 11, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Moving to the positive. One thing we all CAN agree on: the need to insist Fix enforce his "ban" on robotroll 37/Flowers (as he had promised regardless of how many goofy names 37 returned under) and end America's national nightmare. :)
________________

Let's hope the IT guy gets in bright and early Monday.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 11, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

12bar


You just spent all day talking about how one should not believe the statements of cops -


And then you bring out the statement of the Oakland Police Chief - who is black and who is trying to make the blacks of Oakland look better than they are.

So - your comments today have already questioned the Chief's credibility.

However, please note, the Chief limited his statement to those arrested - not those looting, or those rioting - which are two different sets.

In addition, blacks could be from outside of Oakland - the Cheif was not specific.


Obviously the Cheif's statements was public relations

Anyway below is a video so everyone can look at what you call a "civil rights' march"

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

12bar


You just spent all day talking about how one should not believe the statements of cops -


And then you bring out the statement of the Oakland Police Chief - who is black and who is trying to make the blacks of Oakland look better than they are.

So - your comments today have already questioned the Chief's credibility.

However, please note, the Chief limited his statement to those arrested - not those looting, or those rioting - which are two different sets.

In addition, blacks could be from outside of Oakland - the Cheif was not specific.


Obviously the Cheif's statements was public relations

Anyway below is a video so everyone can look at what you call a "civil rights' march"

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

12Bary


I hate to call you a liar - on top of everything else


but since you are calling my credibility into question look at this video

At the end of the tape you can hear the crowd yelling "shoot the police"

Nice - really nice


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bUSo1p66a0

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Here is a video of what the foolish 12bar is trying to depict as a civil rights march:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bUSo1p66a0


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Now you could believe Police Chief Batts who said there were 78 arrested for looting, 3/4 of whom came from outside Oakland and come from organized anarchists groups.

Or you could believe the witless 37th, who wasn't there, doesn't know jacksh*it, and claims 1000s of blacks rioted and looted in Oakland on the day of the verdict.

Who're you going to believe?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Just time to thank 12BB for the report on the provenance of the rioters. I did not know we had this cadre of peripatetic trouble makers. Sounds like Hells Angels in 60s CA and the 60s TX Bandidos, now a worldwide crime syndicate. The Bandidos hardly ever get caught, and always have loot in mind. But these people could be HA/B wannabes.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 11, 2010 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Police Chief Batts credited his officers, some of whom are facing layoffs next week, for training, studying plans and preparing for the event.

"We went over it again and again and it worked well for us," he said. "When I (studied) this department before coming here, the lack of planning really stuck out. The devil is in the details."

For all the efforts of police and community leaders, there was some looting, but it was minimal and can easily be connected to the aforementioned knuckleheads.

Given all that could have happened in such an emotionally charged atmosphere, Oakland's reaction to the Mehserle verdict was as measured as the jury decision itself.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/10/BAC11EC838.DTL#ixzz0tPgWQVxK

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

The Oakland Police Department - and the city officials and community leaders who laid a foundation for a peaceful demonstration - deserve credit for keeping cool heads when history shows such protests can quickly get out of control.

"The organizers of the event did exactly what they said they were going to do," said Oakland Police Chief Anthony Batts. "They held a peaceful protest, but you could see anarchists among the crowd early on," he said.

Among the 78 people arrested, some carried backpacks with Molotov cocktails, sawed-off baseball bats and bottles filled with urine and feces, the chief said. Oakland police officers arrested one masked demonstrator seen filling a plastic gasoline container at a downtown station, he added.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/10/BAC11EC838.DTL#ixzz0tPg49RxR

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Three-quarters of the 78 people arrested in Thursday's riot in Oakland came from outside the city, Police Chief Anthony Batts said Friday.

The chief said it is "unacceptable" for nonresidents to come to the city and damage "businesses that are struggling themselves," including small mom-and-pop stores without insurance.

"Oakland's been getting a lot of bad press lately." Yet, "it's not really the people of Oakland" who were responsible for the unrest, he said.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/10/MNH61EBUBF.DTL#ixzz0tPf2xBqo

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 5:49 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


NOW your story is the blacks who RIOT and LOOT are more like civil rights marchers than anything else.

Are you really trying to twist this story in the leftist's favor ?

It is a story about 1000s of blacks who rioted and looted -


compared to one white cop.


Seriously, you are out of your mind.


We are going to take back our country - whether you like it or not.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Oakland police confirmed that all but 19 of the 78 people arrested for parole violations, arson, property damage or failure to disperse came from outside Oakland. In fact, 19 live outside the Bay Area and 12 were from other states.

Oakland Councilmember Larry Reid was at the rally, standing near a couple of young men who said they had driven all day from Oregon to be there. They were wearing red and blue bandannas and were weighed down by heavy backpacks, clues that police used to identify members of anarchist groups that sparked the vandalism, Reid said.

From the Dec. 16, 1773, Boston Tea Party protest that helped found our nation to the 1960s civil rights marches in the South, history has shown that it doesn't take much for rallies to escalate into trouble, whether it's the protesters or the police who spark the violence.

Paul Cobb, publisher of the Oakland Post newspaper, was a student when he joined King on the Selma-to-Montgomery march in Alabama in March 1965. He is amazed by what now goes on at demonstrations in Oakland, and how a few outsiders can hijack a cause for their own enjoyment. They care nothing about Grant, they just want to get on TV so their friends can see them smashing things up, he said.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_15488051?source=rss

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Mark


broadwayjoe throws out the condescending insults like they are water.


In fact, broadwayjoe hates himself - and his behavior is a reflection of him projecting onto himself how white women have treated him.

broadwayjoe has to get over his rejection by white women - and that is the only way he can face his racism.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

The leftists LOVE this storyline- the rogue white shooting a black


And the black community rising up against the oppression of the whites.


Except that Foot Locker was robbed, windows were broken - and the story is not that clear.

And we have the expressions of hate against the Tea Party - EXPOSING the leftists for who they really are.


Obama has really DESTROYED THE LEFT - there is no credibility left.


The leftists refuse to even talk to people anymore - because they have been EXPOSED and have nothing left to defend.


It is a disgrace and shameful.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

I can see you all just want to have an echo chamber - which will only serve to confirm your racism against the Tea Party and the poorer whites in the Red States.

I understand what you want, but life isn't that way.

All Americans are created equal - I know you don't really believe that.


You believe the Republicans and Tea Party are somehow inferior to you - and that you are better people.

You are not - and you hate the way I challenge your beliefs, which really are racist.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler

Your expressions of hate are vile and uncivil.


You have had nothing of substance to say for an extremely long time now - at least 7 months.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

@bwj and mia and leichtman,

Watching this Mehserle trial play out and the verdict has had a profound impact on the regular citizens in the local area.

Speaking for myself, I found myself starting out with an attitude of "of course, Mehserle didn't MEAN to shoot the guy" to gradually change my opinion to one of holding Mehserle more accountable. I'm still not sure he meant to shoot him, but there was no reason IMO that Mehserle had to taser the guy, and out of that reckless decision the rest of the event occurred.

It's disturbing to hear talk show callers (and I'm talking the white callers) saying "everyone knows the police are dangerous" and "you need to be REAL careful when they pick you up". That's beginning to sound like what Germans would have said about the Gestapo. As Americans, we shouldn't have to fear our police because they have weapons and hair trigger tempers.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

12BB - Leichtman and I are referring to TX, where sov immunity covers most gov actions. We are both of the impression, from afar, that CA has greatly limited sov immunity.

BWJ - you are under no obligation to read anything, of course. Perhaps I do need a large screen and HD. But if the video shows only an admitted shooting it adds nothing, and frankly I did not see the actual shot in that video. I saw the blurred face of the shooter, who might have looked puzzled through the blur, as he holstered his weapon. That was at about 1:20-1:23, I think. The prosecutor's video was better - enhanced, with sound, and it made me wonder why any weapon was drawn, at all. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. If I were a prosecutor in a police brutality case I would look for and hope for keeping a juror like you. There are not enough of you.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 11, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

I just listened to a talk show with a former prosecutor, Jim Hammer, being interviewed. This prosecutor is HOPING that the judge sentences Mehserle to some prison time. He thinks about 2 years for the manslaughter plus maybe 4 years for the gun enhancement.

That is assuming the gun enhancement doesn't get stayed by the judge.

There is SOME possibility that Mehserle gets probation and walks out a free man.

This prosecutor did some research for the show and said that in the last fifteen years, there have been only six cases where police officers were charged with murder. One officer plead to manslaughter. The other five were acquited.

Mehserle is making history as only police being convicted of something.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 4:32 PM | Report abuse

@joe,

Really, I don't think mia is arguing with you. You should know there are lots of different videos of the event. I don't know which of the many were introduced at trial, except the report (made many times) of the video showing Mehserle looking shocked. We heard about that video, although I have never seen it.

The consensus of the black community seems to be it was murder plain and simple. Whites seem to be willing to assume Mehserle is just some kind of screw up who accidentally shot Grant. Of course, I'm generalizing. But that's been my impression after listening to this story here for months and months. It's everywhere on the media.

The differences in attitude down racial lines makes perfect sense when you take into account the differences in police treatment of the races. Right?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

"I did not think your video [of the BART incident] was persuasive."
____________

M-I-A: I stopped reading after the above sentence in your post. Not persuasive? LOL. God bless you. We'll get Cinemascope HD for you next time.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 11, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

More than half the posts here and nearly all the column inches are from the same poster, a hebephrenic speed junkie who posts nonstop for over 24 hours at a stretch, a bleating hysteric whom nobody reads or responds to.  And this has gone on for months and months while the "gracious host" wrings handkerchiefs and sheds crocodile tears and says there's nothing he can do.  That it a complete crock of sh*t.  

Flowers/37ths posts are unintelligible and repetitive, loaded with racist swinishness, and are no contribution to discussion here, seeking only to jam discussion like the Soviets used to do with radio stations from outside Russia.

If you cretins at the Post can't do anything to enable discussion in these comments, if you are literally helpless in the face of a deteriorated drug addict with no job and nothing but time, then just shut down the comments altogether and give them a clean death.  This is disgusting, and there is not another blog connected with any major paper, not even this one, that lets this kind of junk go on.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 11, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

You didn't hear about the case of that girl ?


Im a little confused - you and broadwayjoe seem to ignore the liberal mainstream media.


Yea, that girl's kidnapper is actually the father of the two children - and he is going to jail.

Not a good situation.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


General Panic in Oakland, huh? Interesting ? People running from the black mobs ? Isn't that racist ?

Since Obama was elected, we are supposed to be in a post-racial world now - so why should a black juror be any different than a white, asian or hispanice juror ???

Seems to be racist to say that a black juror would be different than a white, asian or hispanic juror - so why would there be any difference?

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

@mia,

The civil case in the Mehserle case would be against BART, wouldn't it? Would the transit entity also be protected by sov immunity?

I heard that John Burris filed a $25m civil case on behalf of the family.

On a different case entirely, there was an 11 year old girl kidnapped and held captive for 18 years before she was found on a tip by a citizen who saw the tents in the perp's backyard where the girl and her 2 children, fathered by the perp, were living.

The perp was a registered sex offender. The state just settled for $20 million on that case.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

@drindl,

Glad to have you here to read, girl. As you already know, it's REAL HARD to totally ignore someone unless there are others here to engage someone's attention. Thank you for being here. :o)

It is fun, though, isn't it.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

I understand that when the leftists get caught - they like to shut down conversation.

It is pretty clear.

drinl - you are the number one carpet posters on this blog - so you really have nothing to complain about.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

@mia,

However it happened that no blacks got on the jury, I never heard a factual account.

The buzz around Oakland is extremely negative about no blacks on the jury. There is an interesting psychological tell on the part of the whole Bay Area police. There was EXTENSIVE planning in advance of the verdict to evacuate businesses and government offices on a 4 hour notice. Everyone seemed to know that if there were no blacks on the jury, the jury would probably come down on acquital or the lightest conviction.

This is how much people believed it: the 4 hour notice didn't happen. In fact, had it not been for some sharp-eyed reporter, there wouldn't have been any notice. A reporter noticed the jury questioned about the gun enhancement, and he knew this meant they had a verdict.

Anyway, some mass emails went out, and the freeways and feeder roads to the freeways were totally gridlocked, all over the Bay Area. I heard that people were actually running toward their cars. BART shut down their downtown Oakland stations which added to the general panic.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


yea, I guess I am calling your racist because of your silence on the black riot in Oakland.


If the Tea Party had a riot - vandalized and robbed stores, I guess you and the other leftists would be calling for Homeland Security to start putting the Tea Party leaders in Gitmo.

(As Obama opened up spaces at Gitmo, by releasing the terrorists to Yemen as he has been doing.)

yea - I'm calling to the totality of those two attitudes racist.

I am unbiased in my analysis - so I just call 'em as I see 'em.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

yeah, 12Bar, I was wondering why you even bother to read flowers of crack -- its such infantile, racist sewage.

except maybe to laugh at him, but it gets boring even for that.

i would advise to just scroll past, as if you were looking away from a terrible accident, which he is.

Posted by: drindl | July 11, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

I've never trusted a fool who can't be insulted. He knows what he is, and who am I to argue.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

12BB, thanks for the addendum.

Leichtman, I would assume any such case in TX would be brought in Fed Ct under Sec. 1983 - It is the only avenue around sov immunity - although a state court can entertain a 1983 case, why chance it, as you said.

Brigade, thanks for the update on the jury make-up. 12BB, if there were few blacks on the panel, the defense could have struck them peremptorily, without cause. While prosecutors are forbidden to strike peremptorily on the basis of race, defendants face no such constitutional dilemma, as they are not taking state action.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 11, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


I think your last comment actually proves one of my points -


which is that you regard the Tea Party as illegimate - not deserving of rights in the bill of rights.

And on the other hand you regard the blacks in Oakland as having some sort of free pass to riot, loot and vandalize - because they are BLACK.

Because they are Black, you appear to recognize that they have some sort of RIGHT TO RIOT.


I think that sums up the attitude of the leftists.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

@37th,

The day I read your posts and treat you as an intellectual equal, I might as well hang up my own intellect. I would have to be nuts to actually converse with you on your points. I know you are unbalanced, obsessed, speeded-up and racist deep in your bones.

I just poke at you and make fun of you, because you are a court jester. When you find someone who will actually converse with you on your points, you better stick with that person because they are few and far between.

But it ain't me, babe.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Anyone here talking about the illegal alien in Newark, New Jersey who was sentenced over the shooting of 3 people this week ?

We hear the media complaining that Governor Brewer is incorrect about the extent of crime in the illegal alien "community" -

But yet three people are dead in Newark, New Jersey - perhaps one of the last places in the country that anyone would associate with illegal aliens.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

12bar


That is NOT the point - so read the posts


Please do not try to mischaracterize anything - it is not helpful.


Let's hear the same venom from the leftists about the Black riot - as we heard from the leftist about the Tea Party rallies.

There is a double standard at work here - and yes I am insisting.


The leftists are giving better treatment to a Black Riot than a Tea Party rally.


It really becomes a joke.

Yes - the double standard of the LEFTISTS is based on the Blacks in the riot -

The leftists are applying a different standard to the blacks in the riot.

That is racist.


This goes directly back to the philosophy of Rev. Wright's church - and the economic ideas of Rev. Wright's church deserve examination as well.

Yes - if you haven't read about Rev Wright's church - they talk about economics and politics there - as well as religion.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Surely you have heard about the latest "outrage against the white race"--the tanning tax. Both Beck and Limbaugh find this tax, clearly only aimed at whites, to be OUTRAGEOUS.

So why aren't you including this in your list of Obama impeachable offenses?

Sounds like it fits in right with your other offenses.

Seeing that you spend your life so offended about the horrible discrimination that whites have to endure.

LOL.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

The democrats have not applied the "post-racial" idea to the Tea Party.


Instead, you hear sexual slurs and sterotyping coming from the democrats and Obama when they discuss the Tea Party.


Obama killed the "post-racial" idea - by destroying its credibility.


The democrats complained about the legitimate protests of the Tea Party.

And yet we hear nothing from the democrats about a BLACK RIOT IN OAKLAND. And any democrat who wishes to add the word "community" to that phrase is going to be hard pressed to make any sense at all.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

We get it, 37th. Your goal is to protect whites against what you view as the inherently violent criminal blacks, chiefly against the black President. You are a white protectionist.

We get it. It's not like we don't understand your point.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

What has been more shocking to the nation than the rise of the Tea Party - has been the reaction of the democrats TO the Tea Party.

The reaction of the democrats - which Obama apparently shares - has been dripping with racism against poorer, uneducated whites.

That is clear - No matter what the actual polling of the Tea Party shows on their education level - the democrats, and Obama - HAVE CREATED A STEROTYPE - AND TINGED IT WITH HATE SPEECH.

This reaction says MORE about about the democrats than it says about the Tea Party.

What is interesting is this REACTION has gone a long way towards DESTROYING the credibility of Obama's campaign themes from 2008.


The democrats appear to not actually be aware of this complete loss of credibility - as if they are completely clueless and out-of-touch with reality.

What is astonishing is that the democrats appear to believe that their way to improve their standing in the polls - is to increase the sterotyping and hate speech of the Tea Party.


But that action only increases the woes of the democrats - confirming their lack of credibility.

The Tea Party is over 50 million strong - they are a legitimate force with legitimate political views - and they have Rights under the Bill of Rights to express those views.

The attitude of the democrats seems to be that the Tea Party is NOT legitimate - that they do NOT deserve a role in the political process - they deserve to be marginalized.


Anyway, the sexual slurs continue on this blog - and anyone who complains about the content of any comment - that comment must be compared to the apparent allowing of the sexual slurs on this blog.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

None of the leftists here want to talk about the riot in Oakland.

What is clear is that Obama and the democrats killed the post-racial atmosphere - with their false charges of racism and constant attacks using sexual slurs.

One can not be against racial slurs - but then use sexual slurs to describe a group of people on a daily basis.


Obama and the democrats killed the post-racial world -

All progress has been thrown out because Obama would rather have a few points in the overnight polling.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

I assume the defense in this case tried to show a probable necessity for tasing. Did that happen? What was the nature of the testimony? Anyone know?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 11, 2010 11:09 AM
-------------------------------------
I believe the defense brought in at least one expert who did opine that tasering was appropriate. I don't know what the prosecution did to refute that, if anything.

To a layman (me), it's pretty hard to justify to one's self that tasering a guy surrounded by police with his hands behind his back.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

I just listened to a talk show with a former prosecutor, Jim Hammer, being interviewed. This prosecutor is HOPING that the judge sentences Mehserle to some prison time. He thinks about 2 years for the manslaughter plus maybe 4 years for the gun enhancement.

That is assuming the gun enhancement doesn't get stayed by the judge.

There is SOME possibility that Mehserle gets probation and walks out a free man.

This prosecutor did some research for the show and said that in the last fifteen years, there have been only six cases where police officers were charged with murder. One officer plead to manslaughter. The other five were acquited.

Mehserle is making history as only police being convicted of something.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Re: Mehserle trial.

I have heard on the radio numerous times that at trial there was a video shown that had Mehserle being shocked after shooting Oscar Grant. I don't have TV so I didn't see it, myself, nor can I find it on youtube. But all my friends say the same thing, so I'm not crazy about that.

The jury had no blacks on it, which is unbelievable since it was downtown LA. Maybe a clue might be voir dire. If you ask potential jurors if he/she had ever had trouble with the police, and disqualified every one of those people, that would certainly one way to get rid of all blacks. I don't know if that happened, but it could have worked that way.

The jury only deliberated about six hours, and had to start over twice because of two alternates. That doesn't indicate that much thought went into this jury. This sounds like a "compromise" verdict to me, having been on a jury myself and felt the tremendous pressure from other jurors to "just get it over with because everyone knows [fill in the blank]".

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 11, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

the civil case should be settled if the
exemplary damages are kept to a minimum
if here in Texas. We know that our state
Supreme Ct. is very anti Plaintiff and would likely throw out most verdicts against municipalities under the doctrine of sovereign immunity or if damages are deemed excessive and why it would likely need to be filed in Federal Ct. as a civil rights violation
under 1983 rather than in State District Ct is how I see it mark. but this case is in Ca who's state supreme ct is more even handed, so that scenario changes. Your example mark is filing the claim in Travis Cty District Ct. who's verdicts are certainly reviewed by our state supreme ct and what that entails. Texas P lawyers would certainly not chance a Travis Cty verdict even in this egregious situation imho.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 11, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Regarding the BART incident, I'm not sure if I said anything to indicate that this was an "all white" jury. If so, I apologize. I read that there were "no blacks" on the jury, which I felt was the relevant point. There may very well have been some Asians or Hispanics on the jury.

Considering the racial make-up in the cities of Oakland and Los Angeles, it just makes good sense when there's a black/white case like this to have a representative number of blacks on the jury. I'm sure if three or four African-Americans had listened to all the evidence and voted for involuntary manslaughter, then this would go a long way toward diffusing the incident. I'm not suggesting this is how juries are picked, but I do wonder how a large city with a significant black population manages to not have a single black on the jury in this sort of case.

Posted by: Brigade | July 11, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

"Supreme Court justice Clarence Thomas and family are "outraged" after his nephew was allegedly punched, pulled and tased at a New Orleans hospital, after a possible suicide attempt. The taser put him into a "massive epileptic seizure."

I have just read this, and i am trying to fathom how any hospital could taser someone who is suicidal.

Posted by: drindl | July 11, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

As long as we're talking race here (and, yes, I realize that someone around here is talking about race 24/37), there was a disturbing incident in the DC area. A young man was sitting outside a library and was considered suspicious. He's black. He also has autism. What may have been a case of SWB (sitting while black) was complicated by his autism. That led to a confrontation resulting in an injured officer and a young man in jail.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/10/AR2010071002633.html?hpid=newswell

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | July 11, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

BWJ, I understand that DOJ is reviewing this case as a potential civil rights case. The USA could make a case on excessive force without proving specific murderous intent, I think. I did not think your video was persuasive, and I think it was not placed in evidence for that reason. I DO think it would be persuasive, as would be the video that was placed in evidence, in a civil rights case - no weapon should have been drawn on the victim, as far as one can tell from the videos. That should be enough to obtain a guilty plea, I think, unless there are still other videos justifying drawn weapons.

I assume the defense in this case tried to show a probable necessity for tasing. Did that happen? What was the nature of the testimony? Anyone know?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 11, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

I am guessing the civil case, if not settled early, will produce a substantial plaintiff's verdict. Why?

The burden of proof is lower.

The fate of the individual cop will not be the focus, the family's loss will be.

Negligence alone, without intent, will work in favor of the plaintiff, instead of the defendant.

The possibility that using a taser in that situation in violation of police policy leads to an enhanced award for reckless and wanton negligence exists, so that "I meant to use my taser" may actually work for the family of the decedent and against the City.

Were this my civil case to defend as attorney for the City of Austin I would work feverishly to settle, and not go to trial. Leichtman?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 11, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

This article linked below embeds a better video of the BART incident. If, after viewing this, someone wants to argue the shooter thought he was firing his taser, not his gun, or that he suffered from a panic attack, God bless him.

http://boingboing.net/2010/07/08/jury-reaches-verdict.html

Out.

Enjoy the day.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 11, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

BWJ - Depending on the evidence [was there a film shown to the jury that evidences shock or surprise by the transit cop, as 12BB suggested?] that is exactly what I am saying would likely occur in TX. Or would have 42 years ago.

On the other hand, there is little question that a civilian shooting another civilian in the back while the victim was under restraint would have resulted in a murder conviction, if recorded, and viewed by the jury.

I am not in a position to argue that race was not a factor but I am in a position to argue that "blue" probably was. It always has been, in TX.

I do not know what you are wanting from me. I do not know the composition of the jury. I do not know the videos they saw. I do not know the effectiveness of the testimony of witnesses or of the attorneys. I watched a video that the PROSECUTION put into evidence that was "enhanced" by the prosecution and I could not tell what happened. Did you see a video that WAS INTRODUCED INTO EVIDENCE? Do you want me to watch it? What?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 11, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Counted the us of the word blacks at least 25 times by 37th this am;what should we dare call that?
Ebonic looting??????
Why is this tolerated by the WP?
Can t imagine any other legitimate blog sue allowing that Why not just come out and use the n word 37th

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 11, 2010 8:55 AM | Report abuse

It is hard to admit that 37/Flowers got the BART case right (except for the unhinged junk about the "rioting") and that he made the critical point better than I did, but he did. This guy was pinned on the ground face down by the other officers, a danger to no one, and the defendant officer calmly shot this helpless guy in the back and then calmly re-holstered. If this isn't a slam dunk, then literally NO case is.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 11, 2010 8:46 AM | Report abuse

M-I-A: Assume the exact same facts as in the BART case except the victim is a white middle class suburban adult male.

Are you seriously telling me, with that one fact change, you believe that, in Texas, the officer would have been acquitted of the more serious charges, as the BART officer was?

Until I saw the video the other day, I really didn't appreciate the controversy over the shooting. Now I do. Any explanation of the verdict based on speculation about jury deference to the police in light of what our "lying eyes" saw on the video is disturbing and proves we have a LONG way to go. Awful stuff.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 11, 2010 8:35 AM | Report abuse

12Bar


My question is - was the officer even right to tase the guy - if that is what he is saying he intended to do.

There are 4 or 5 officers there - and they seemed to have the guy under control - so why was he being tased ?

I don't even know - but it is difficult to see something delevop in a train station - what led to all of this ?

In any event, the behavior of the blacks in Oakland is not justified.

The attitude of the leftist is - the blacks are allowed to go protest and be violent-

But the Tea Party does not have that right to protest - because it MUST be racism behind what they are saying - not that they don't like what is going on.

There are two different standards here.

Clearly, the leftists in this country are not mature enough to have a black President.

If the leftists were mature enough to have a black President, we wouldn't be hearing all these charges of "hidden racism" - and it's not that, it's really racism. All that complete garbage we are hearing from the left.


Somehow the left believes they have a monopoly on protest - they are allowed to protest Bush - but somehow all protest against Obama is wrong.

Sorry - THE LEFT SOMEHOW BELIEVES THAT ALL PROTESTS AGAINST OBAMA SHOULD BE STOPPED BECAUSE HE IS BLACK.

It doesn't work that way. If we really are post-racial, it shouldn't matter what color Obama is.


But it always seems to be the left which is bringing up the racism - the race card.

The leftists want to throw racism in someone's face.

But to challenge a leftist - and really talk about whether these charges of racism are appropriate - or even productive - the leftists go nuts.


The leftists don't want to hear that these charges are not right in a post-racial world.


This is NOT WHAT POST RACIAL IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT.

OBAMA KILLED THE POST-RACIAL WORLD - it is not happening - and it won't happen for a long time now.

Obama killed it - and the leftists killed it. No one else did.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 11, 2010 1:49 AM | Report abuse

BWJ posted:

"M-I-A: You can't be serious."

I and Leichtman, are both seriously suggesting that in TX it is unlikely that police brutality toward anyone will be the basis of a successful criminal prosecution against a cop, while we both suggest that civil suits can succeed on behalf of the civilian.

I was serious in suggesting that the era of videos offers some opening to actually prosecuting police brutality, but deference to blue makes a max conviction unlikely.

I did not, and do not, suggest that race played no part in the verdict in the Oakland case. I cannot know that. I was surprised that a Los Angeles County jury was described as "all white" - I would think that would be a statistical improbability. I would have to know more and I am sure 12BB will oblige with more factual detail over the weekend, but I will not know enough to opine about anything other than what I have actually experienced: juries that will accept a policeman's testimony, no matter how inconsistent internally, no matter how improbable.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 11, 2010 12:42 AM | Report abuse

As if anyone here gives a shịt what a hebephrenic junkie finds offensive.

The teabaggers are scum.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 11, 2010 12:14 AM | Report abuse

12Bar


That is not it at all


I am offended by the way the Tea Party is portrayed here and mischaracterized

But yet - we don't have the same scrutiny of the blacks.

Why not ???

We need to apply the same standards across the board.

We have everyone arguing about what one white cop did.

But the behavior of a thousand blacks in downtown Oakland is OK ???


I don't know what happened there that night - why the guy was being arrested at all --

I don't think they should use tasers at all - the tasers are getting abused in too many incidents.

I don't want to see the garbage on this blog about the Tea Party - when the actions of the black community are much worse.


I don't want to see the garbage on this blog about the militias - when the black and hispanic gangs in the cities are much worse.

Seriously - it turns out to be a pile of crap - worthless set of lies.


AND - I want the FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM - AND PLAYING THE RACE CARD TO BE DENOUNCED.


As far as I am concerned - that is a civil rights violation, and Obama SHOULD be impeached over those media attacks after the passage of the health care bill.


Pure and simple - these actions are out-of-bounds - they are outside of traditional American politics - and they don't belong here.


And if this is the kind of politics which Obama INSISTS ON FORCING ON THIS NATION, Obama should resign immediately.

Tim Russert called Obama out -


The democrats are simply tone-deaf on this issue - the American People see what you are trying to do clearly.


This is going to hurt the democrats for a generation -

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 11:41 PM | Report abuse

One comment heard very often on the talk shows is that "everyone knows" that when you get picked up by the police, you need to be "very careful" because they have guns. And the callers then wind around to how the victim apparently wasn't careful enough, because he got shot. The view that the police are dangerous to the life of someone they have in custody is a scary thought to me. When I was little, my mom always said, "if you're in trouble, find a policeman. He'll help you". Apparently not any more.

Secondly, Mehserle and the other BART cops got way too excited and overstimulated. Strangely, that seemed to work in their favor in the eyes of some. It explained why a BART cop would shoot someone in the back in front of numerous and obvious video. In fact, the defense was "why would this guy murder someone in front of witnesses".

It all has a rather surreal tone.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 11:37 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


If the blacks do not agree with the verdict, fine - but they do not have the right to go out and riot

Break store windows


Steal from stores (looting in ebonics)

And vandalism all over downtown Oakland


78 people were arrested -

seriously - you are saying NOTHING ABOUT THE VIOLENCE -

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 11:30 PM | Report abuse

Ok, we get it, 37th.

You think blacks are a violent criminal subclass, and chief among them, is the President.

See, you could save yourself a lot of writing, by just summarizing.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 11:28 PM | Report abuse

For me, I could care less, but this situation is rapidly going downhill.


The downticket losses for the democrats this year are going to be MASSIVE.


The only way a democrat can save themselves is to DENOUNCE OBAMA AND HIS RACE CARD PLAYING WAYS.


Honesty on the other issues would be good too - I seriously don't think the country is in the mood for any more lies from the democrats.


If you are a democrat, and you think you should lie some more, go AHEAD.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 11:26 PM | Report abuse

Back to Mehserle verdict, which EVERYONE here is following closely. As unbelievable as it seems, the opinion of the verdict tends to go down racial lines. If you listen to the talk shows, whites tend to support acquital; blacks tend to support at least 2nd degree murder.

I think the jury did defer to the police, regardless of the numerous video showing the shooting, including one of the victim filming it himself. Had there been less video, or none, I wouldn't be surprised the jury would have acquited.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 11:24 PM | Report abuse

12Bar

The "black community" in Oakland


Since when was breaking store windows, stealing from a Foot Locker and vandalism acts of a "community."

Seriously

And no one on this blog is complaining about the Blank Panther who Obama let go - he was caught on tape saying ethnic slurs against whites.

Funny - no tape of any ethnic slurs on Capitol Hill with the Tea Party -

but we have a tape of the Black Panther saying ethnic slurs and saying that he wanted white babies killed.


I'm just saying the same standards should be applied across the board.


If Obama continues with his narrative about the economy - he is going to have to be called a liar about that too.

Seriously folks, Obama is going to have to clean up his act -


Obama is not acting presidential.

Obama is way over the top in his Partisan rhetoric.

The countries of the world are already sick of Obama - they are wishing Bush was back.

Obama's conduct in office has been nothing less than a disgrace.

And of course - I am referring to the FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM AND PLAYING THE RACE CARD - which Obama has yet to speak out against.

Obama's promise to the nation was to be post-racial.

We haven't gotten that - and for that the country should be VOTING AGAINST OBAMA.

The democrats are soon going to be faced with a problem - they either DENOUNCE OBAMA OR WATCH THEIR PARTY LOSE ALL CREDIBILITY.


For me, I could care less, but this situation is rapidly going downhill.

The downticket losses for the democrats this year are going to be MASSIVE.


The only way a democrat can save themselves is to DENOUNCE OBAMA AND HIS RACE CARD PLAYING WAYS.

Honesty on the other issues would be good too - I seriously don't think the country is in the mood for any more lies from the democrats.

If you are a democrat, and you think you should lie some more, go AHEAD.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas' epileptic nephew suffered a massive seizure after being beaten and hit with a stun gun during a scuffle at a New Orleans area hospital, his family said.

Derek Thomas, 25, was admitted to West Jefferson Hospital on Thursday after what some news outlets described as a possible suicide attempt. When orderlies asked Thomas to put on a hospital gown, he refused and tried to flee the facility. That's when security guards stepped in, and a scuffle ensued. Details were reported by several news agencies.

One of the guards punched Thomas, pulled out his hair and them shocked him with a Taser, the patient's sister, Kimberly Thomas, wrote in an e-mail to ABC News. Because of the fight, Thomas suffered a serious seizure, she said.

http://www.aolnews.com/article/clarence-thomas-nephew-tasered-in-hospital-scuffle/19549095

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 11:19 PM | Report abuse

Apparently Clarence Thomas' nephew was tasered in a hospital ER because he refused to put on a hospital gown.

Nephew, 25 years old, who is epileptic goes to ER in some kind of confused state. When docs admit him, nephew doesn't want to put on gown. Security tasered him and causes him to go into seizure.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


Did you see whites rioting after the OJ Simpson verdict?


Why is it that liberals feel the need to give the blacks a pass on rioting ?

NO ONE on the leftist side wants to criticize the behavior of the blacks in Oakland.

Anyway - broadwayjoe will once again be coming out with his statements about how the Tea Party is a threat to be violent -

Or how the militias training in the woods are going to be so violent.

But the truth is the real violence is in the innercities


Something has to be done about that.

The gangs have to be brought under control.

AND that includes the illegal aliens who are gang members.

NO ONE mentioned the illegal alien sentenced this week in Newark, NJ for killing 3 people.

Sure, the liberals say, let more illegal aliens into the country.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

@bwj,

Re Mehserle case, I have heard numerous times there is video showing Mehserle looking shocked. There were numerous video shots of the event, including one taken by the victim himself. If I find the video on youtube I'll post the link.

Mehserle was a BART cop, considered more like PD than security cop. Supposedly he was trained like PD. Seems questionable to me, but that's what the prosecution presented.

The defense said Mehserle got confused about the taser, and obviously the jury believed the defense. Even though the taser is on the opposite side and weighs a lot less than a gun.

Right after the verdict, the defense released a letter from Mehserle to the victim's family apologizing for the shooting. Cynics say this is all done for the benefit of influencing the judge for lower sentence.

Needless to say, the black community in Oakland is not pleased.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree with Joe in this case. This was pretty egregious. If you're that confused when a man's face down on the ground in front of you, what in the world would you do in a for-real predicament?

Was this guy a trained police officer or some sort of security guard? I thought they called him a transit officer, but I'm not sure just what that means or what sort of training in the use of firearms he'd had. It's a tragic situation.

Posted by: Brigade | July 10, 2010 9:28 PM | Report abuse

I think your seeing of imaginary characters has expanded to your own loony mind.

==

No less real than your yacht and family, shutterbug. Stones, glass houses.

Aching ribs? Better see an oncologist. Two packs a day for how long now?

Posted by: Noacoler | July 10, 2010 9:12 PM | Report abuse

BTW, regarding the civil suit arising from the BART incident, anybody betting that the plaintiff obtains a monetary recovery (verdict or settlement) of less than six figures? I didn't think so.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 10, 2010 8:58 PM | Report abuse

The BART verdict doesn't reflect deference to the police. This was a videotaped unjustified shooting where the officer's defense was ridiculous from the get-go, i.e., I thought the gun was a taser.

As for the suggestion the jury heard something the press is unaware of and that's what swayed it, it was a closely followed PUBLIC trial and no media account of it has stated or implied any such thing. Regarding speculation about other views showing the officer panicking, all of the views are on the Internet and none show anything other than the officer calmly shooting an unarmed subdued man in the back.

Whatever motivated the jury verdict in the BART case, it certainly wasn't deference to the police since the officer offered no credible explanation/excuse for what he did.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 10, 2010 8:52 PM | Report abuse

leichtman, your post reminded me that Constable McCain [D], Precinct 3, Travis County, tasered a 72 yr. old white great grandma who would not step forward and sign her traffic citation, and all of that was on video [look up "tasered 72 year old" on google].

That was around the time the cops arrested the Harvard prof. in Cambridge in his own house. It got less coverage, but everyone in the TX case was white.

Internal investigation found "no wrongdoing" by McCain. Travis County maintained granny's civil suit was without merit but they did settle for $40K, saying it would cost more to litigate, which it would have, indeed. Your Houston footballer's mom will [or did] get a decent settlement, I am sure.

I think most of the posters here do not understand the real deference we give to cops - although our experience is here in TX. Maybe it is different elsewhere.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 10, 2010 8:34 PM | Report abuse

M-I-A: You can't be serious.

In the BART case, unlike in some cases, we have a videotape, and a fairly clear one at that. The tape shows no panic of any kind on the officer's part either before or after the shooting. In fact, after the shots were fired, the officer calmly holstered his gun. We don't see him jabbering, "What have I done?" or hand waving. Rather, he shot a subdued unarmed man lying face down on the ground and that was that.

No officer in the entire country would mistake a TASER from a real GUN so his "defense" was bogus from the start: They are holstered on entirely different sides of the officer's waist and the weight, look, and feel of the two are VERY different.

Let's get real here.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 10, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

"Those in the industry" are not concerned with the massive federal budget deficit - or the massive federal debt.

in reality banks, auto companies, and insurance
companies on the verge of financial collapse 19 months ago would say no. They were thankful the federal govt saved them from collapse although by their massive CEO bonuses you could hardly tell. In March 2009 this administration had to do use every tool in its arsenal including exploding the deficit to save banks, the auto and the insurance industry from certain, complete financial collapse. I am sure that the Herbert Hoover wing of the GOP(Rand Paul, Carly Fiorina and Sharron Angel) would have preferred a 1929 redeux so they could then have said how irresponsible it was of Obama to have let that happen. Apparently the GOP thinks that Obama wanted to have spent hundreds of billions his first weeks in office to rescue the economy from the brink of financial disaster. Perhaps the GOP minions have amnesia and have entirely forgotten AIG, Lehman, GM, Chrysler et al and what happened in Dec 2008. Sane people have not forgotten.

As for convicting cops in Texas of any type of violent crime, that is very very rare, can't remember the last Harris Cty conviction. We had a very similar case in my lilly white neighborhood where a young AA kid had driven his parents Lexus home and the vehicle was incorrectly marked as an auto theft. When the young man reached to get his identification he was mistakenly shot. The officer was recently acquitted of all charges however our community faces massive civil liability b/c the kid that was shot was a local star athlete. G++ bless our police force but they always seem to be acquitted regardless of the testimony; at least here in Texas.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 10, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Noa,
I really think you are on shaky ground.
Having read a fair number of your posts over the months, you have engaged in the same sort of personal attacks that you cast on others.
Banning 37th made sense. As did banning you. Both were consistent with the rules of fair play on the blog. You both chose to ignore them.

Chris
Posted by: Chris_Cillizza | June 29, 2010 6:52 PM


We all know who the most disgusting cretin at the Fix is. The first one ever banned.

Posted by: Moonbat | July 10, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Your "work" as a writer.

I laughed so hard my ribs hurt.

Copywriting is not defined as copy and paste from huff. Work is usually paid. Now we ALL now you are hopelessly unemployed.

Where are all those activities every day all day and every weekend nonstop.

I think your seeing of imaginary characters has expanded to your own loony mind.

Posted by: Moonbat | July 10, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

rharring, are you a 'horn?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 10, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

12BB, I do labor negotiation from the management side, so take my ancient history with criminal law as... ancient history, but here it is.

When I was a prosecutor, as a young lawyer, 42 years ago, in a liberal city full of hippie types in the heart of Texas, I could pretty much count on jurors taking the testimony of a police officer as worth more than the testimony of a civilian. I can tell you that jurors tended to trust cops, without regard to the race of the civilian, and without regard to the race of the cop. Black cop killed white guy, it would result in an internal reprimand at APD just as when white cop killed black guy. Maybe reassignment to a desk job. Maybe dismissal if the cop had an internal rep such that other cops would not work willingly with him.

Today video raises the stakes: cops apparently can be convicted of negligent homicide. "Reasonable doubt" is easier to emotionally extend for a cop in the field - that is my guess. You said one video seemed to show the cop in Oakland looking surprised. That would have been enough for an Austin jury, regardless of the racial overtones. Leichtman would be able to give you a current view, I am sure, but I think the relevant color is "blue".

And it does not much matter what "the public" thinks. Serving on a jury during a trial creates its own reality, which is divorced from what you read in the newspaper or watch on TV, or on line. What we know of this case is different than what that jury knew.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 10, 2010 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Well look who's here all weekend after all, the yachtsman who said he'd be out on the ocean with his fambly. Oh, but it's raining. Yeah, that really impedes a boat..

Back on here all weekend to call people names and issue extravagant boasts nobody believes. Flinging poo IS zouk's whole life.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 10, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

not-banned 37/Flowers, all time, all day...

From July 9 at 4:50 pm to July 10 at 5:50 pm, just on this thread.

Ridiculous. Absurd. Unacceptable (on any mainstream blog but this one).

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 10, 2010 7:19 PM | Report abuse

'Nothing else AT ALL in your pitiful empty life is there drivl?

Posted by: Moonbat | "

Just my work as a writer and in local politics, my family, my friends and my community.

You on the other hand, have Model Mayhem [see cached version, kingofzouk]

Posted by: drindl | July 10, 2010 7:18 PM | Report abuse

This blog has become a sewer, with zouk the urea and 37th az the logjam of floating tụrds

Posted by: Noacoler | July 10, 2010 7:16 PM | Report abuse

Nothing else AT ALL in your pitiful empty life is there drivl?

Posted by: Moonbat | July 10, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

Flowers of Stupidity,

This isnt a Tea Party blog, and where was the Tea Party when taxes where high and the deficit spiraling out of control in the Bush years? Oh thats right there was a WHITE GUY in charge, so no need to form.

Posted by: rharring | July 10, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

"It's time for the GOP to get down to brass tacks. Republicans are positively giddy at the prospect of retaking the House of Representatives, but, to make their dreams a reality, they have to be more than just the Party of No. They have to develop and disseminate an actual agenda. To do that they're teaming up with the party faithful and K Street lobbyists to produce a new platform. It's less providing leadership than being led, but at least it's something.

But if you feel like this is déjà vu all over again, that's because it is. In the years since they lost their majority, and in the months since Obama took office, Republicans have tried time and again to cast themselves as more than a (dis)loyal minority, introducing policy ideas, rebranding efforts, and other gimmicks. All of them have quickly fizzled and been swept into the dustbin, never to be mentioned again.

Whether this latest effort stands the test of time or not is an open question. But with that in mind, here's a highlight reel of failed Republican renaissances."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/07/top-five-republican-stumbles-on-the-road-back-to-relevance.php?ref=fpa


funny reading...

Posted by: drindl | July 10, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Helping drindl out.

Here is the link to the Bob Bennett interview: http://blog.taragana.com/politics/2010/07/09/ap-interview-defeated-gop-us-sen-bennett-of-utah-says-harry-reid-likely-will-keep-seat-47784/

[Bennett] he worried that the GOP has no clear plan to govern if they take control of the Senate this election year.

“That’s my concern, that at the moment there is not a cohesive Republican strategy of this is what we’re going to do. And certainly among the tea party types there’s clearly no strategy of this is what we’re going to do,” he said.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Obama STILL has not renounced the FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM -


Which is a sure sign that Obama supports MAKING FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM AGAINST WHITES FOR POLITICAL GAIN.

This is a CRIME AGAINST AMERICAN DEMOCRACY ITSELF.


Obama has proven over and over again that he intends to be A FRAUD AGAINST HIS 2008 CAMPAIGN.


Broadwayjoe understands what is going on - he is upset all the time about it.


I just don't understand why Broadwayjoe didn't know about the Oakland situation - I guess it just hasn't been in his talking points from the CABAL.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

@drindl,

Do you have a link for your Bennet story?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Obama's health care plan is a DRAG ON HIRING - that is what is important right now.

This year was the wrong time and place for health care - the only person who did not agree on that was Obama and his ego.

Obama's ego is destroying BOTH THE ECONOMY AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

The economy is going to escape - because the Republicans will take control of the House and then IMPEACH OBAMA LIKE HE DESERVES.


Obama has recently extended BENEFITS TO GAY COUPLES - WHICH AMOUNTS TO SPENDING MONEY WITHOUT CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL - THAT IS UNCONSITUTIONAL.

Obama should be impeached for a long list of offenses against this nation.

Maybe the Tea Party will come to his impeachment.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Some republicans starting to wise up:

"Warning that tea party "mischief" may be aiding Democrats this election season, defeated Utah Republican U.S. Sen. Bob Bennett says that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid likely will keep his seat and that the GOP may not win hotly contested Senate races in Colorado or Kentucky either.

In an interview in his home state with The Associated Press, Bennett also suggested that Republicans may not have a clear plan to govern even if they do take control of the Senate this year.

Weighing in on election season, Bennett expressed concern over the fiercely contested GOP primary in Colorado and said that, in Nevada, Reid appears to be a shoo-in to defeat Sharon Angle, a tea party candidate who won the Republican nomination last month.

"With the tea party creating the mischief that it is in Colorado, we may not win that seat. My sources in Nevada say with Sharon Angle there's no way Harry Reid loses in Nevada," he said about the GOP challenger to Democratic Senate majority leader.

In Kentucky's Senate race, he said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has been making strides to help tea party favorite Rand Paul avoid a loss there.

"Rand Paul — that's a seat we could lose in Kentucky, but McConnell seems to be helping stabilize Rand Paul and pulling back from some of his more dangerous statements," he said in the interview Thursday."

Stabilize? His mental health?

Posted by: drindl | July 10, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Obama is still a threat to traditional American Values.

That is why the Tea Party called themselves the Tea Party - an emphasis on traditional American values.

Obama has done this to himself - no one told Obama to violate his own campaign pledges.

Obama has no one to blame except himself.

This garbage about "driving the car into the ditch" - that is just a deception.


Also - there has NEVER been a President who has been so partisan.

Of course, partisan speeches in October before an election are fine - but in JULY ???

This is highly irregular - and Obama doesn't know any better.

Obama can not be trusted.

The quotas which OBAMA HAS HIDDEN INSIDE THE FINANCIAL REGULATION BILL - ARE A JOKE.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 5:31 PM | Report abuse

@leichtman,

Since you are criminal defense, I'll pose this to you. The trial of the year, Mehserle, all seemed to hinge on Mehserle's intent. Did he intend to pull his gun and shoot the victim in the back? Or did he intend to pull his taser and taser this guy lying on the ground.

I don't know if you followed the case, but there was no doubt Mehserle shot the guy.

I'm trying to imagine some other defendant shooting a guy lying on the ground with his hands behind his back. Somehow, I find it hard to believe the whole trial would hinge on the shooter's intent. I think that jury would find murder of some degree and they'd put the shooter away.

Am I wrong?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


I hereby back off of all my stances I have taken previously.

Does that make you happy ?


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Flowers of ignorance writes:

"Too bad the East Anglia emails have proven that global warming stopped completely about 10 years ago - and there is no crisis anymore."

Hmm interesting, right not the east coast has the weather that we here in Texas normally have, 100 degree heat, while we are in the 80's, and San Diego cant get out of the mid 60's right now. Yeah that Global Warming is such a farce.


And yet the liberals still say it is a VALID REASON TO CREATE MASSIVE NEW TAXES.

Funny, last i checked our taxes are at the lowest since Truman. And you dont have the GOP to thank.

So you got any more fiction you want us to read?

Posted by: rharring | July 10, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

@leichtman,

Corp HR depts are certainly dealing reasonably with the upcoming changes.
----------------------------------

I'm sure they are dealing with it. As opposed to 37th idealistic idea of how business works, businesses don't have time to tilt at windmills. If you have to make changes to comply with the new laws, you get with the program and get the expert advice you need and start making the changes.

Someone who acted like 37th, pounded on the table and shouted that it's all WRONG, well, that person gets in the way and gets fired.


Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Flowers of ignorance,
Shall i remind you of the fraud Bush was? Lets look at his platform from 2000.

Im a uniter not a divider.
Yet under his leadership the country became more divided than any other time in recorded history.

I can work with both sides of the isle.

Never even attempted this

Compassionate Conservatism: The Bush campaign made extensive use of the "Compassionate conservatism" concept.

Yet never followed up on this

Bush promised a humble foreign policy with no nation building.

Yet that is EXACTLY what he tried to do in Iraq and Afghanistan

Bush promised tax breaks for all, sometimes using the slogan "Whoever pays taxes gets a tax break".

Yet it was only the rich that got the tax breaks.

The Bush campaign supports a comprehensive energy reform bill which includes initiatives for energy conserving technologies as well as decreasing the foreign dependence on oil through increased domestic production and the use of non-fossil fuel based energy production methods.

Remember 4 dollar a gallon gas. And where is that switchgrass he promised in the State of the Union?

So when you compare the two, I will take Obama any day of the week. At least he is giving it an effort. Bush never did, and he said it best when asked what mistakes he has made "I cant think of any"

Yet over 300 million Americans sure could.

Posted by: rharring | July 10, 2010 5:12 PM | Report abuse

For the cheeseheads who live in Wisconsin, Im sure they WANT global warming.


It makes sense for them.

Too bad the East Anglia emails have proven that global warming stopped completely about 10 years ago - and there is no crisis anymore.

And yet the liberals still say it is a VALID REASON TO CREATE MASSIVE NEW TAXES.

A liberal never met a problem that they didn't think could be solved with more taxes.


A conservative never met a problem that they didn't hink could be solved with tax cuts.

George Bush is happy on his range.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

David Vitter in trouble:

Just before the end of qualifying for the U.S. Senate race late this afternoon in Louisiana, a well-known former state Supreme Court justice jumped in to the Republican primary against incumbent David Vitter.

It's been a long time since I covered Louisiana politics, but if memory serves Chet Traylor was first elected to the court in the 1990s with major, major backing from the state's biggest business group in an effort to steer the court to the right. It was a hugely expensive race by the standards of the day. We'll be reporting more on this development, but what it suggests to me is that the business community is abandoning Vitter. And unless things have changed a lot in the dozen years since I moved away, Traylor is going to have access to boatloads of campaign cash for this primary.

The other problem this potentially poses for Vitter is geographic and cultural. Traylor is a good ol' boy from rural northeast Louisiana. Vitter is a Harvard-educated former Rhodes Scholar from the New Orleans area. That didn't pose a problem for Vitter when he first won election in 2004, in what was then an open nonpartisan primary. But the law was since changed and it's a closed Republican primary now, so he'll be facing Traylor straight up. Throw in Vitter's dalliances with prostitutes, and Traylor is in a strong position to exploit the old rural-urban (or New Orleans v. not New Orleans) fault lines."

Democrats in Louisiana are smiling tonight."

Posted by: drindl | July 10, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

leichtman

"Those in the industry" are not concerned with the massive federal budget deficit - or the massive federal debt.


In addition - the cost of the subsidies has yet to be determined. - They will balloon.


In addition, the impact of the budgets of the States will be considerable.

The country will be luck to dodge a bullet and get this thing declared unconsitutional or repealed.


The fate of the nation hangs in the balance.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

nope I am primarily a Criminal Defense Lawyer but my wife is a corp HR Director and I am starting to take on some wage dispute litigation and attending Labor Law seminars where HC reform is the primary topic. The top labor lawyers here in Texas were covering the intracies of grandfathering current HC plans and moderate restrictions to flexible spending accounts. Those in the industry certainly don't appear as reflexively opposed as the
conservatives here. Corp HR depts are certainly dealing reasonably with the upcoming changes.
in HC laws.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 10, 2010 5:00 PM | Report abuse

@drindl,

I just did a little lookup on Ron Johnson. It appears his stance has something to do with the Catholic Church and the abuse issue they are dealing with. Mr. Johnson is a Lutheran but is on the Catholic Church finance committee at the diocese level. It all sounds a bit convoluted.

If I were Mr. Johnson, I'd back off WHATEVER stance I previously took. In politics, issues that are too nuanced don't get you anything but trouble.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

@37th,

Don't be such a blockhead. It's not that some or even most of the looters aren't black. So what. It's your generalization that comes from that, that is racist.

If some of the looters are whites, are all whites looters? Or violent? Or criminal?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I would just ignore the crackhead, folks.


This is funny.

"
Ron Johnson, a wealthy business executive and leading Republican candidate for U.S. Senate in Wisconsin this year, is beginning to receive scrutiny for his far right views. He has been criticized recently for opposing an anti-sex offenders bill, the Child Victim Act, and for saying that he is “glad there’s global warming.”


Now we have republicans who support child molesters.

Except that's not really funny, is it?

Posted by: drindl | July 10, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Here goes 37th into ALLCAPS mode which he does when he gets really agitated. Now he'll start robo posting over and over again to fulfill his obsession. And drifting back into paranoid schizoid land with the cabal and 2008 and the leftists out to get him.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe:


These aren't the right facts, right:


Demonstrators damaged 100 downtown businesses. They sprayed anti-police graffiti on storefronts, broke windows, stole merchandise, set trash bins on fire and clashed with police officers from 15 Bay Area law-enforcement agencies.

Protesters were arrested on suspicion of such crimes as resisting arrest, burglary, vandalism and assaulting a police officer.


_____________________________________


Are you denying that the BLACKS RIOTED IN OAKLAND ???

What planet are you on ???


I suppose your position is that the Tea Party dressed in blackface - and staged a BLACK RIOT - and got arrested - JUST TO BLAME THE BLACKS.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

The country HAS A RIGHT TO CALL OBAMA ON HIS 2008 PLATFORM

Obama has hardly made an effort to adhere to his promises in 2008.

If Obama can take back his words, can the country take back their votes ???


The country did NOT vote for Obama - they voted for his platform.

ON THAT POINT, OBAMA IS A FRAUD.

A fraud who believes in Black Liberation Theology.

There is NO WAY to explain the far-left agenda of Obama - other than BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGY.

Obama's philosophy is so outside the mainstream.


Prior to 2000, could you find ANY WING of the democratic party talking about ANYTHING AS FAR LEFT AS OBAMA HAS BEEN?

This is a disgrace - obviously it is an understatement to say that the country did NOT expect Obama to be so far left.

The country has been defrauded.

The country has a right to be upset.

The democratic party is responsible for this -


Experience matters.

Qualifications matter.

Obama is a disgrace to this nation.


12Bar - I dare you to start to look up Black Liberation Theology - read up on it a bit.

Im sure that broadwayjoe and ddawd know what it is.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

"These aren't the right facts, right:


Demonstrators damaged 100 downtown businesses. They sprayed anti-police graffiti on storefronts, broke windows, stole merchandise, set trash bins on fire and clashed with police officers from 15 Bay Area law-enforcement agencies.

Protesters were arrested on suspicion of such crimes as resisting arrest, burglary, vandalism and assaulting a police officer.

* * * *

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 4:03 PM"
____________

...and then you woke up, 37?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 10, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Definition of racism:

a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent inferiority of a particular race.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racist
-------------------------------------

Who believes that blacks are inherently violent?

Who believes that blacks are inherently criminal.

Excuse me, who believes that blacks AND hispanics are inherently violent and criminal?

Who is a person who believes in racism?

Who is the racist?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 4:12 PM | Report abuse

That's why SOME think the judge might dismiss the gun enhancement charge.

Correction.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


These aren't the right facts, right:

Demonstrators damaged 100 downtown businesses. They sprayed anti-police graffiti on storefronts, broke windows, stole merchandise, set trash bins on fire and clashed with police officers from 15 Bay Area law-enforcement agencies.

Protesters were arrested on suspicion of such crimes as resisting arrest, burglary, vandalism and assaulting a police officer.


_________________________________


Actually what happened was the blacks gathered in the center of Oakland - and sang songs all night long.

No one was hurt, no windows were broken.


Grandmothers were helped across the street -


Non-profits set up booths - and the blacks all signed up to volunteer.

The family forgave the officer - and called for calm

And no one was arrested, right ?

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

More on Mehserle verdict:

The jury found him guilty of involuntary manslaughter, indicating that they believed Mehserle when he said he didn't know he was holding his gun, rather than his taser.

Then, the jury found him guilty of the gun enhancement, the elements are that the defendant "personally and intentionally discharged a firearm" while committing a felony.

That's why SOME think the jury might dismiss the gun enhancement charge. The manslaughter charge carried 2-4 yrs. The gun enhancement carried an additional max. 10 years.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

It is sure too bad that Rand Paul won't talk to anyone anymore. He's just like his dad:


"Despite the absurdity of Broun’s comments, Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) managed to concoct a far crazier conspiracy theory with radio host Alex Jones during an interview on July 1st.

Jones floated the idea that BP had planned the spill by giving “orders they knew would cause a problem,” BP “funded the carbon tax,” that BP actually wants the U.S. government to nationalize their assets, and the entire clean energy bill is a secret plot to establish a global government.

He also noted that the Obama administration wants the spill to worsen to provoke “forced evacuations.” Paul did not dispute any of Jones’ ideas. Rather, he confirmed that he also is “very suspicious of BP and our government and even the Obama administration.”

The Texas congressman then said Jones “forgot” that Obama used “executive orders” to dictate policy, giving the example of the escrow account, and that because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan drained necessary National Guard troops that could have been used in the Gulf.

Of course, literally nothing either Jones or Paul said was true or is substantiated by evidence. Obama negotiated the $20 billion escrow account; he did not create it by executive order, as Paul contends. Also, Obama has deployed thousands of National Guard reserves — however, they are not being used because Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-LA) and others have not formulated plans to put them to work. "

They forgot about the detention camps obama will put 'conservatives' in after the 'forced evacuations' and the global government.

Cracked.

Posted by: drindl | July 10, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

geeesshhhhh


My facts are the right facts???

The blacks RIOTED in Oakland - it happened.

Foot Locker and other stores were robbed

In case you aren't sure, Looting is the ebonic word for robbery.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

@leichtman,

I missed it if you said it before...are you a labor lawyer?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

d: Gerson's right.

'My guess the teabagger "movement" will produce some gains for the GOP in the off year elections because of low turn out among regular folks, and high turn out among the haters, but will do lasting damage to the GOP in the long run. Thanks to the baggers, it will eventually be a permanent minority party, a regional party, strong only in the former Confederate states, IMO.'

yup.

Fix Featured Republican of the Day: Karen Handel

What is not to like?

"deputy chief of staff to former Vice President Dan Quayle's wife, Marilyn" (heavy hitting deputy Chief of staff to the wife of a stellar Republican VP) + ox wearing lipstick (there is something the nation needs) + outsider(forget the White House reference earlier) = year of the Republican woman or month of the hockey mom or season of the mama Grizzly or watch out for the pit bull or I'm in the tea party folks. "

Wish they'd give this space to you, Bob, or some other deserving person instead of thse R shills.

Posted by: drindl | July 10, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

My mouth ?


What about my fingers?

You should have said fingers

Im not telling you anything about myself, I know you want to know.


I never called you a moron.

Should I ?


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

actually what I said is if you ever bother
to attend a H.C. seminar presented by experts in the field, not folks like you that rant 24/7 about things you know zip about, they are dealing rationally with the reform, and even those you would expect to most oppose the reform,are cautiously coming to the conclusion that the HC plan will work and will have positive elements that only partisans like you can't understand.

as to job formation we are actually creating them in certain sectors like in H.C., hospitals, nurses are being hired in record numbers.

and if you want to to go down that argument about job creation, when Obama was sworn in
we were losing 500-700,000 jobs per month. I
know this is difficult for you to comprehend
but even an anemic growth of 50,000-150,000 p/month is better than the 500-700,000 per month loss we were left with in Feb 2009.

again you delusionally think your juvenile name calling constitutes Civil Discourse.
bizarre

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 10, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Why, 37th, would I read or respond to ANY of your posts? You seem to think that your passion substitutes for insight.

You are passionate because you don't have to face real life problems. Real problems are solved with compromise, not pounding on the table, claiming that your "facts" are the RIGHT facts.

It doesn't matter who's right--what matters is what gets done about real life problems.

You live a life bounded by a keyboard and screen and the six cubic feet you live in. That's not the real world.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

This country has been far too nice to the leftists -


Really, this country is hurting because of Bill Clinton and Obama -

WHO deregulated derivatives ? Clinton


WHO had their appointees running Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ? Clinton

WHO repealed the Glass Steagall Act? Clinton


OBAMA IS A LIAR

Obama loves to blame Bush - "Bush drove the car into the ditch"

NOT REALLY TRUE, IS IT ???

The mortgage crisis was the DEMOCRATS.

Why DO THE DEMOCRATS LIE SO MUCH ???


The patience of the country has RUN OUT.

The democrats are going to be TOLD TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH FROM NOW ON.

WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHOSE ENTIRE PLATFORM WAS A FRAUD.

And now OBAMA IS LYING ABOUT THE ECONOMY.


It is a joke - and the democrats ARE AT FAULT.


IT IS TIME THAT THE COUNTRY START HOLDING THE DEMOCRATS RESPONSIBLE.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

The only thing that 37th has going for him is his mouth.

What has he created? What has he invented? What business has he managed? What laws has he written, or enforced, or litigated?

NOTHING that we know of.

What we do know: he is NOT creating, managing, inventing, or litigating a damn thing for how many years? How many years has he been compulsively posting on this blog?

Most of the rest of us have gradually let others know what our history is. I worked in venture capital in high tech and started and managed companies. And what the hell is 37th? I sure as hell never heard of ONE thing he's done in his life but sit here and call all of us morons.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


The BLACKS are the ones who got violent the other night in Oakland - no one else.

The black gangs are shooting people.


The hispanic gangs are shooting people.

THOSE ARE THE FACTS -


I think you actually want to have a different version of reality.

But without that BLACK VIOLENCE - I would not have specific incidents to call attention to.


Meanwhile - a few mispelled signs are major crimes - far worse than the blacks killing people, right ?

NO - 12Bar you are wrong - the blacks have killed FAR MORE PEOPLE - and that has to be recongized.


Yes - send the ARMY to march into Oakland - and make sure there is no more violence.

WHY ? Because there should NOT be any violence -


And I don't care who is being Violent - black white green yellow pink - there should be no violence.


YES - they should send the National Guard in and start fighting the gangs -


This crap has gone on way too long.

Obama has done NOTHING about innercity violence -


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Why do we let this moron 37th, who has exactly ZERO credibility dominate this blog?

It's amazing how he opines on every conceivable subject, including rocket surgery, and disperses insults to actual aerospace surgeons.

We know the only way he can know anything is what he googles, because he sure as hell never leaves his keyboard. He has no real world experience that we know, no wisdom that comes from dealing with real problems, no sense of balance that comes from dealing with real people.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Ok, let me see.

Leichtman is an attorney.

37th is an unemployed guy who posts on this blog 24/7. We don't know if he has ever held a job. We don't know if he has an education. We only know he is an expert on every subject without ever leaving his keyboard.

And leichtman is the moron. Yeah. Right.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Leichtman

Look at how you have been acting on this blog over the past few weeks.


Seriously man - you have demonstrated a constant lack of civil intelligence.

And you have been acting like a complete child the entire time.

What do you want me to do, edit your posts ?


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

leichman1 wrote,
"HC reform will begin transitioning in 2014 and the rules promulgated by Sebelius starting in 2011. Its amazing that corporate HR folks are dealing with this change much more sanguine then the righties here who wish to trash the reform."


_____________________________________

Um except they are NOT hiring anyone - and private sector employment is down.


You are a complete moron.

.
________________________________________


Leichtman

Somehow you are trying to say that the HR people are more supportive of Obama's health care plan

They are NOT.


HIRING is what is important. Those HR departments ARE NOT HIRING.


Jobs support Health Care - that is something you and Obama do not understand.


You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

It is a fact that you are a moron.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

@37th,

You don't have to convince me of what you are. I hear from folks like you everyday. Ideas like "the police need to go into Oakland, and really kick a$$, and stop those videos too while they're at it". "If the black community think it's bad now, wait until I get done with them".

Others have better ideas and more peaceful ideas. Ideas that don't stereotype the black community into violent criminals. I know those ideas don't appeal to you because you like to blow the hell out of everything that frustrates you and stereotyping is SO much easier.

So, why should I listen to anything you say? Answer: I shouldn't and I don't.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

d: Gerson's right.

My guess the teabagger "movement" will produce some gains for the GOP in the off year elections because of low turn out among regular folks, and high turn out among the haters, but will do lasting damage to the GOP in the long run. Thanks to the baggers, it will eventually be a permanent minority party, a regional party, strong only in the former Confederate states, IMO.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 10, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


Are the blacks getting away with violence in the inner cities ???


Scores of shootings - scores dead - no arrests made.

The black gangs and the hispanic gangs are getting away with a great deal of violence.


Where is your outrage there ???


I guess the next thing we will hear from broadwayjoe and 12bar is the Tea Party was actually holding a rally in Oakland that night - and it got violent.

IF that happened, we would never ever hear the end of it -

How many shootings have there been in Chicago alone since this ONE shooting in Oakland ?

Quite the contrary - YOU are making a big deal with this ONE because the shooter was WHITE

WE NEED THE LEFTISTS TO ADMIT THAT.

AND WE NEED THE LEFTISTS TO BE MORE CONCERNED WHEN THE SHOOTERS ARE BLACK AND HISPANIC.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


Obviously - so your story is there was a riot in downtown Oakland - and it was all white boys from the suburbs ?

What are you smoking in California ???

What we constantly here is how violent the Tea Party thread is - but the BLACK VIOLENCE is brushed aside.

Time and time again we have discussed this and the ridiculous position of the leftists on this blog continues.


The leftists are just a bunch of liars -

Every image on television showing someone arrested - it was a black person - 80 people were arrested - and many many more blacks participated.


Yea, right, there was a peaceful concert going on at the same time - but you keep on saying the blacks were peaceful.


Anarchists do not target Foot Locker, blacks do.

12Bar - the blacks ARE violent - it is a fact - look at your TV

What is wrong with you ???


You might be entitled to an opinion, but not your own facts.


Anyway - I am convince the cabal is all in the same room in some mental institution - each person claiming to be in a different state.

The cabal used to instruct their members to create little "demographic personalities" - to try to falsely demonstrate that Obama had this wide-ranging support.

We will see - Obama's numbers are sinking faster than BP's stock price.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Despite 37th minimization of this case, the Meserhle trial and verdict is a VERY BIG DEAL in northern California. Everyone followed it, partly because of all the video of the shooting.

Every station cut away to live coverage of the verdict, the reaction. News helicopters flew over Oakland, reporters were on the street interviewing everyone in sight.

Don't think this is a small deal. It's not. It's very symbolic of how the police kill young black men and the black community says they get away with it.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"You are a complete moron"

and you dare lecture us on what you call
Civil Discourse?

My comment was to brigade about H.C reform and
how corporations are actually dealing with it.
There are provisions grandfathering benefit plans and flexible savings accounts are now limited to $2500 plus restrictions about plans now not covering over the counter meds, brigade likely understands, as revenue enhancers. These are some of the reasonable realities talked about at HR seminars unlike the juvenile rants and insults by 37th.
Its amazing that those kinds of comments are still tolerated here under the excuse that they
somehow promote civil discourse. On what planet might that be?


.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 10, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

@bwj,

Don't pay any attention to 37th. He doesn't live anywhere around Oakland or California, otherwise he'd know the local story. The black community at large is highly unhappy about the verdict, but they are not the source of the looting.

Actually this story is a lot bigger than looting. It has a lot more to do with justice and how it applied differently to blacks and whites. And applied differently to the police versus non-police.

37th is just looking for any story he can weave into BLACKS ARE VIOLENT story.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

37's persistent racism makes conservative's Gerson's WaPo piece worth reposting.
"But mainstream conservatives have been strangely disoriented by Tea Party excess, unable to distinguish the injudicious from the outrageous. Some rose to Angle's defense or attacked her critics. Just to be clear: A Republican Senate candidate has identified the United States Congress with tyranny and contemplated the recourse to political violence. This is disqualifying for public office. It lacks, of course, the seriousness of genuine sedition. It is the conservative equivalent of the Che Guevara T-shirt -- a fashion, a gesture, a toying with ideas the wearer only dimly comprehends. The rhetoric of "Second Amendment remedies" is a light-weight Lexington, a cut-rate Concord. It is so far from the moral weightiness of the Founders that it mocks their memory.
ad_icon

The Republican wave also carries along a group of libertarians, such as Kentucky Senate candidate Rand Paul. Since expressing a preference for property rights above civil rights protections -- revisiting the segregated lunch counter -- Paul has minimized his contact with the media. The source of this caution is instructive. The fear is not that Paul will make gaffes or mistakes but, rather, that he will further reveal his own political views. In America, the ideology of libertarianism is itself a scandal. It involves not only a retreat from Obamaism but a retreat from the most basic social commitments to the weak, the elderly and the disadvantaged, along with a withdrawal from American global commitments.

Libertarianism has a rigorous ideological coldness at its core. Voters are alienated when that core is exposed. And Paul is now neck and neck with his Democratic opponent in a race a Republican should easily win.

In addition, the Republican wave carries along a group more interested in stigmatizing immigrants than winning their support. Some conservatives have found Arizona's anti-immigration law -- a law that is poorly written, ineffective, symbolically toxic and likely to be overturned -- a cause worth fighting for.

The response of many responsible Republicans to these ideological trends is to stay quiet, make no sudden moves and hope they go away. But these are not merely excesses; they are arguments. Significant portions of the Republican coalition believe that it is a desirable strategy to talk of armed revolution, embrace libertarian purity and alienate Hispanic voters. With a major Republican victory in November, those who hold these views may well be elevated in profile and influence. And this could create durable, destructive perceptions of the Republican Party that would take decades to change. A party that is intimidated and silent in the face of its extremes is eventually defined by them. "

Posted by: drindl | July 10, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

The hate just pours out of zouk like green pus from a wound. What a sad case.

Posted by: drindl | July 10, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

@ the not-banned 37/Flowers: That the Fix allows you to use a blog of Washington Post, which serves a city 70% black, to post your racist sewage 24/7 speaks volumes about where he appears to be coming from.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 10, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Unbelievable how the shootings in Chicago are posted - scores of shootings - scores of dead.

AND yet broadwayjoe never expressed one iota of concern for black-on-black violence - or hispanic-on-hispanic violence.

OR black gang violence - or hispanice gang violence.


OH but one black in Oakland - one white officer - THAT IS A BIG DEAL TO BROADWAYJOE.


Broadwayjoe is a RACIST - his postings are different depending on the RACE of the shooter.


It is pretty simple - the RACISM HERE.


12Bar same thing -

A life is a life - but apparently you prefer to overlook the death depending on the RACE of the shooter.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

What I am saying about the Meserhle verdict is that there is a division between blacks and whites view of the fairness of the verdict, just like the OJ Simpson case.

As unhappy as blacks in the Bay Area are, there is not rioting by blacks.

The verdict seemed to completely hinge on whether Meserhle meant to shoot the victim. There IS video that shows Meserhle being shocked at the gunshot.

What I say is that it seems like tasering the victim who was lying on the platform on his stomach, with his hands behind his back, surrounded by 4 officers, seemed extreme. Once Meserhle made the decision to taser him (his defense is that was his intent), the mistake of instead pulling his gun and shooting the guy in the back was the eventual outcome of too much excitement.

What I have trouble imagining is a trial of some other shooter (either black or white) where the jury cares so much about whether the shooter "intended" to shoot him, or just accidentally shot him. I think the jury would find for murder and that would be it. Some of these open carry folks could easily find themselves in the same spot.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Talk about obsessive derangement drivl.

Unlike your inner tube, my boat has room for the whole family and all the comforts of home. Including power, cable and Internet stooge.

It is raining so the pool is closed and now my boy is watching soccer. The countess and princess have gone shopping, naturally.

Drivl will compare this perfectly normal behavior, compare it to her own imbalances And pitiful existence, and find it all so utterly impossible. Just like Ped. Imagine having a family. And not blogging for a few hours. Unimaginable they roar.

And unlike peds hovel, I have built in ac.

You losers still dripping with envy from your empty, shallow lonely lives of hate. When the sun comes out, well be off.

Unlike drivl who will be camping nonstop on this blog until they pry her cold dead hands from the keyboard.

Posted by: Moonbat | July 10, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

I guess I'm out of of touch. Bloggers canned for private emails about Drudge. A cable newswoman gets canned for a private Twittered eulogy. Dave Shuster hasn't been seen on MSNBC for months as a result of some unclear "infraction."

Yet there's Morning Joe on TV every week despite the information Kos published about MJ's past that was never reported by the national MSM. Where's Nancy Grace on that?

Don't get it...

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 10, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Broadwayjoe


One of these days you will realize how horrible Obama is


- how Obama has been abusing the race card


- how Obama has been abusing the Justice Dept


- how Obama has misspent the stimulus dollars


- how Obama has driven the deficit way up


- how Obama has added massive amounts to the national debt


- how Obama did not clean up Minerals Management Service -


- how the Oil Spill is Obama's fault.


- how Obama is a DRAG on hiring - and that hurts the blacks more than anyone


- how Obama has not done anything for the inner city violence


- how Obama is just incompetent

Someday you will get up to speed.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


This is an old story - the blacks already had their riot -


Yea, the "anarchists" all went to Foot Locker - and robbed the place.

No blacks took anything from Foot Locker.

OH - and all the black faces on people arrested in the RIOT - they were ACTORS - right ?

NO BLACKS IN THAT RIOT, NONE -

DOWNTOWN OAKLAND, CA HAD A RIOT - THE BLACKS ALL STAYED HOME.


It was all rich kid "anarchists" who took the BART from San Francisco, right ?


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

leichman1 wrote,
"HC reform will begin transitioning in 2014 and the rules promulgated by Sebelius starting in 2011. Its amazing that corporate HR folks are dealing with this change much more sanguine then the righties here who wish to trash the reform."


_____________________________________


Um except they are NOT hiring anyone - and private sector employment is down.

You are a complete moron.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

"Sometimes this place feels like being back in "second" grade."

2nd grade -- I doubt zouk and 37 made it past kindergarten. if they had, they might have learned some social skills.

Posted by: drindl | July 10, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

12: thing is, in the video, he clearly is not excited.

He calmly shoots the guy in the back and then calmly holsters the gun.

I don't know what the guy did, but the officer carried out a death sentence on the spot.

Troubling times.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 10, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

More about Meserhle trial.

When the venue got changed to LA, and there were no cameras in the courtroom, and no blacks on the jury, people in Oakland were naturally suspicious.

Then, the jury deliberated about six hours in total because one day someone got sick, then someone had to go on vacation, and another had a doctors appointment. Sound a little ridiculous?

Then, after a total of about six hours, the jury said involuntary manslaughter, but then added a handgun enhancement to it, which apparently makes no sense legally. There is some thought the judge might throw out the handgun enhancement. If so, Meserhle could very well get almost no sentence, or even probation.

Sounds like the jury just wanted to get the whole thing over and done with and just made a deal inside the jury room. I don't think CA juries know the sentencing implications of any charge, so it's a bit like potpourri mixing.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


How in the world can you complain about someone not being post-racial - when you constantly post FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM ???

What is wrong with you ???

Are you mentally ill or something ???

Seriously - post-racial means "Stop Playing the Race Card"

Your pal Obama is a liar and a fraud.


You should get it.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

moonbat told us he was going to be on a boat with his wife and kids this weekend -- so what's up with that? guess he forgot his fiction.

Posted by: drindl | July 10, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

@Brig: Sorry.

Since I was just catching up on the story, I wasn't following you on that. Now I get it.

Before I saw the video I didn't fully get what the hub-bub was about. Didn't know it was an all white jury. If you can't convict when you have a clear video of the shooting, the system has broken down and we clearly aren't yet post-racial. The officer's "defense" -- that he thought he was shooting his taser, not his gun -- is so absurd I'm surprised he wasn't laughed out of court. After he shot, he didn't recoil in horror, as he would have if he had mistakenly shot the "real" gun. Instead he calmly reholstered the weapon. And of course the two weapons have a completely different feel and weight, they say, and are kept in holsters on opposite sides of the officer's waist.

Ugly stuff.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 10, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

@bwj,

Regarding the aftermath of the Meserhle verdict, here's the local story. Oakland PD readied itself and the business community for the verdict and evacuated the downtown area in advance. Doesn't that speak volumes of what verdict they anticipated. There was considerable white opinion that Meserhle would be acquited.

Anyway, after the verdict was announced, a crowd gathered in two demonstrations, one sanctioned by the city with music etc, and the other spontaneous. The unsanctioned group did some damage as the night went on, but this was NOT "the blacks" as 37th would have you believe. There is a group, Anarchists of the Bay Area, who wear hoodies and scarves over their faces who broke windows. I was listening to a police who recognized the same guys from the last "demonstation" and predicted that when night fell, they'd start their tricks. These people are simply using this excuse to vandalize and loot. About 80 of these people were arrested, and sure enough, they don't live in Oakland and don't care about the victim.

What I am hearing on local stations is that, generally, black citizens feel that Meserhle got off really easy. Blacks feel like the police can kill them and get away with it.

Whites generally think Meserhle is just some kind of screwup who just got all excited and made a mistake, and a lot of them think he should be acquited. Some other whites think involuntary manslaughter is about right.

The sentencing will be the next flashpoint. If Meserle gets the maximum sentence, that will quell things somewhat. If, God forbid, he is released on probation (which I have heard is a possibility), there will be blood, as Jake used to warn.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 10, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

its the Grandfathering Plans provisions that HR departments have to comply with Brigade that you likely refer to. Most plans will have difficulty complying but it was intended to try and keep the reform costs down, but yea HR folks do have work to comply with that provision but its managable say this major labor lawfirm.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 10, 2010 12:42 PM | Report abuse

And I agree that taxes are about as low as they can be. I think that most of the whining ."
its refreshing to hear a conservative make that point. For those whining about our high tax burden they need to visit Canada as I did with their 25% tax on new home purchases called GST tax but then low yearly property taxes. They laugh at us when we complain about our high taxes. No one is advocating for their tax system or GST taxe but its interesting even though their tax burden is much higher than our's they currently have a much more stable economy, housing and stock market. g** forbid we could learn a thing or two from then on economic and certainly housing polciy which also requires 20% down to buy a new home which might be neccessary but certainly honorous to most Americans. But I still think some mild inflation say 3-5% might help jump start the economy with an expectation of higher prices to jump start the economy. I am much more concerned brigade with deflation than inflation at least for right now. No one wants to emulate Japan's 10 years of their lost economy, certainly the GOP would agree that is not the best economic course of action.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 10, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

The first drilling rig has been moved from the Gulf to foreign waters as a result of Chairman Zero's irrational moratorium and the insane zealotry of the environmental left who want no drilling or mining anywhere. (If you think I'm being hyperbolic, name one location the Sierra Club is okay with opening for new drilling or mining. Go ahead, name one. I'll wait.) How many thousands of jobs have gone with it, Chairman Zero?

Meanwhile, the Business Roundtable, a group of CEO's (i.e. people who actually create jobs) that does not normally criticize administration policies is criticizing administration policies.

"In our judgment, we have reached a point where the negative effects of these policies are too significant to ignore. By reaching into virtually every sector of economic life, government is injecting uncertainty into the marketplace and making it harder to raise capital and create new businesses."
No kidding. The Obamacrats aren't just killing the Golden Goose, they're jumping up and down on it screaming "Die, Goose, Die!" as Barney Frank contemplates the lovely boa he will make from the feathers.

Amity Shlaes, author of The Forgotten Man and scholar of the Great Depression, says Obama is desperately emulating FDR, re-enacting all of the statist, redistributionist policies that prolonged the Great Depression by seven years. And why not? The academic elites who presume to grade presidents say FDR was the greatest, and they are the people whose approval Dear Reader has always sought out, and why his policies are not based on proven business principles but on bull-sessions with Marxists in the faculty lounge.

Posted by: Moonbat | July 10, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

leichman1 wrote,
"HC reform will begin transitioning in 2014 and the rules promulgated by Sebelius starting in 2011. Its amazing that corporate HR folks are dealing with this change much more sanguine then the righties here who wish to trash the reform."

---

One of the new reporting requirements of HCR has the business community AND the IRS up in arms. It was included so additional tax revenues could be fantasized and used to reduce the overall cost estimate. Didn't take long to determine that conforming to this part of the law will cost businesses additional BILLIONS for paperwork and manpower---maybe this is part of a job stimulus. But the IRS didn't get any more agents to sort through the additional paperwork. The law of unintended consequences. Murphy's Law has yet to kick in.

Posted by: Brigade | July 10, 2010 12:24 PM | Report abuse

actually brigade there are other conservative Ds here who respect and agree with much that
mark has posted in the past and look forward to his common sense economic thoughts. We should all be working towards the same objective: economic recovery for all. Your post last night that it is midnight in America apparently does not share that sentiment. But yea I would work my tail off to help mark in Austin in a run for Congress and I have absolutely no idea if he considers himself a R or conservative D.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 10, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Broadwayjoe wrote,
"finally watched the video: it reminds you of the famous 60s video of the Vietnamese guy getting shot. Brutal and terrifying. The cop's defense: I thought I was shooting my taser gun, not my real gun."

---

This is what I was telling you the other night right after the verdict was announced. I don't think there was a single black on the jury.

Posted by: Brigade | July 10, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

leichtman1 wrote,
"They have been so obsessed with fighting off inflation that they have created a scenario putting us on the verge of a Japan like deflationary climate."

---

This is a key point. We all know that inflation is pretty much inevitable with this debt. Many fear that once it starts, it will be hard to contain. Some even believer this will develop into a strategy to reduce our debt with cheap dollars. But what do we do right now to get this economy moving? The BIG question. And I agree that taxes are about as low as they can be. I think that most of the whining about tax increases can be attributed to worries about the immediate future and what we're going to do to reduce this deficit. Property taxes are being hiked in many parts of the country, even during this recession, because of budget shortfalls. In some places, this is even mandated by law already---fund the schools, et al. And while they adjusted property values upward during the boom, I haven't noticed many tax assessors out and about since the crash trying to make corrections.

Posted by: Brigade | July 10, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

HC reform will begin transitioning in 2014 and the rules promulgated by Sebelius starting in 2011. Its amazing that corporate HR folks are dealing with this change much more sanguine then the righties here who wish to trash the reform. Public opinion of the reform bill has also improved by 10% in polling since February as voters begin to learn more about it other than the garbage about so called death panels still being pushed by 37th and the GOP but actually now being denounced by sensible Republicans who understand the lunacy of that faux argument.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 10, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Raining at the boat.

We have a blue crowned conure who is clearly smarter than liberals. When we open his cage he comes out. When liberals are given the chance to escape enslavement and captivity, they vote for continued plantation.

Between drivl, Ped, Ddunce and Baghdad bj, I think they could reason the bird to a draw.

Posted by: Moonbat | July 10, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

And I have not invoked climate change here. I just want to save the economy and the national security of my country, and of its friends. If we get serious, others will follow [or perish]. If we do not get serious, my granddaughters, and everybody's grandkids will have dust.


Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 10, 2010 8:09 AM
---

Thanks for a thoughtful response, Mark. You should consider a run for office; but I wouldn't count on much support from your friends here---not after you've displayed good, common sense.

Posted by: Brigade | July 10, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

I don't get it with all brigade's weird sex allusions, he really seems like one majorly sick guy. Never seen a "straight" guy so obsessed with fellatio.

Not many gay ones either.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 10, 2010 2:06 AM |
---

Pot. Kettle. We once had some birds. A conure named Abner had a personality like yours. He once took a piece out of my wife's finger as she attempted to feed him. I didn't think he was too bright, but I guess everything is relative in some way. Compared to you and DDAWD, your parrots are probably of high intellect. Same could be said of a field mouse.

I can only imagine which member you've lost while trying to abuse those poor birds in who-knows-what kind of way.

Posted by: Brigade | July 10, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

37th my family works for fortune 500 companies and as usual you don t know what you are talking about.
Conservatives rail against the bailout of banks and the corporate world says thanks for bailing us out, without the bailout corporations would truly be in the soup today.
Conservatives can t have it both ways and say Obama is antibusiness but did the think corporations wanted to save their viability: bank bailouts and bailing out GM and Chrysler.
Without the bailouts the world economy would be 1929 redeux. Corporations and CNBC know that its just the whackos like Rand Paul who would have preferred economic demise. Went to an HR seminar on HC reform lawfirm last week put on by a very probusiness lawfirm and they were surprisingly upbeat about the efficacy of HC reform and the transitioning process in 2011 for their corporate clients.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 10, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

"Krugman won a Nobel. You're a potty-mouth Republican. I'll listen to him and I only read one line of your post.

Posted by: Noacoler "

haha, gotta love the Sean Hannity parrot

*squak* Krugman's an idiot

*squak* Nobel Prizes have a liberal bias

*squak* job creation is a liberal goal

*squak* REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN

Posted by: DDAWD | July 10, 2010 1:46 AM
---

Barack Obama and Yasser Arafat also "won" Nobel Prizes, you doddering idiots. Liberal bias? Why, who'd ever think that?

But thanks for confirming my point by failure to offer substantial rebuttals. Just the usual name-calling and nonsense.

Oh, and once is a typo; four times is a giveaway. It's "SQUAWK"! Too bad there isn't a government program where you can pick up a brain that works.

Posted by: Brigade | July 10, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Allen West, the Republican challenging Rep. Ron Klein (D) in Florida’s 22nd congressional district, sharply criticized the Obama administration for having allegedly declined prosecuting the New Black Panther Party on voter tampering charges for political reasons.

Anyway -


Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Broadwayjoe


One of these days you will realize how horrible Obama is


- how Obama has been abusing the race card


- how Obama has been abusing the Justice Dept


- how Obama has misspent the stimulus dollars


- how Obama has driven the deficit way up


- how Obama has added massive amounts to the national debt


- how Obama did not clean up Minerals Management Service -


- how the Oil Spill is Obama's fault.

- how Obama is a DRAG on hiring - and that hurts the blacks more than anyone


- how Obama has not done anything for the inner city violence


- how Obama is just incompetent


Someday you will get up to speed.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

I'm just catching up to the Joe Scarborough intern story that Kos has reignited this week, too, so, you're right, I am behind on some of these items.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 10, 2010 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Black Candidate slams Obama on using RACE for political gain


The problem is Obama is ruining the chances for other black candidates - because no one wants to see the False Charges of Racism fly.

“The die has been cast in this election cycle — Democrats and their liberal progressive socialist allies will continue to play the race card when it is politically expedient,” West said

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Black Candidate slams Obama on using RACE for political gain


The problem is Obama is ruining the chances for other black candidates - because no one wants to see the False Charges of Racism fly.

“The die has been cast in this election cycle — Democrats and their liberal progressive socialist allies will continue to play the race card when it is politically expedient,” West said

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Broadwayjoe


broadwayjoe complains there was a BLACK RIOT that he didn't know about.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


boy, are you behind, that shooting was a year and half ago.


There has already been the community outrage.


The officer has been put on trial, and the verdict came in.

The blacks in Oakland have already RIOTED IN RESPONSE TO THE VERDICT.

Windows broken, stores looted, A foot locker was robbed - 80 people arrested.

I guess you are a little behind in getting people all worked up in a NON-CONSTRUCTIVE WAY.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Mark

We arent going to have wars for fuel - the price will gradually rise until the alternative fuels are the same price or less expensive.

It will not be a sudden loss of oil.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

BART shooting!

We don't watch the evening news much anymore so we are just catching up to this story about the police shooting of an unarmed man at a BART station.

I finally watched the video: it reminds you of the famous 60s video of the Vietnamese guy getting shot. Brutal and terrifying. The cop's defense: I thought I was shooting my taser gun, not my real gun.

You decide if that's plausible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXWSgG-KNng

Is this the world of 37/Flowers?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 10, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

leichtman


Big businesses are not investing because Obama has created a horrible business environment.


Let's take health care - people STILL don't know what's in the bill.

Businesses STILL don't have an idea what their health care costs are going to be under the health care bill.

Take the financial regulation bill - is that designed to increase small busines loans and create jobs ? NO.


Has Obama addressed the problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - largely the fault of Clinton people ???? NO.

Obama is the problem

Get Obama out and you will be amazed how fast this economy will improve.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 9:58 AM | Report abuse

CNBC was repeating yesterday, your comment mark that large corporations are hording cash b/c of a lack of demand, also b/c treasury bills are at 3% and there is no demand for
lbo s. Seems like the feds need to artificially create some inflation. They have been so obsessed with fighting off inflation that they have created a scenario putting us on the verge of a Japan like deflationary climate. With all of the retail prices dropping, home prices declining and mtg rates down to a 50 year low there is absolutely no reason for anyone to go out and buy a new home, apparel, or refinance their loans b/c of the exepectation that if they just wait to buy that item another 30 days they can buy it cheaper. The economy will pick up when
psychologically consumers begin to think that if they wait another 30 days to buy that house they were eyeing that it will be more expensive, not cheaper, imho. Need not have insane bidding wars like Ca had in 2005, just a reasonable expectation that consumers need to step up to the plate now before prices increase. Deflation is the biggest concern for our economy.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 10, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Mark in Austin


The government really has a limited role in the transition to new energy -


As oil runs out, its price will increase - as the price increases, alternative energy which is more expensive, will kick in.


The whole thing SHOULD BE PRICE DRIVEN.

If the government wants to get involved with research - and preparation - that is fine.

However, to INTERVENE in the market, by making oil prematurely expensive - does not make economic sense.

The price of oil will rise - and at some point it WILL be MORE expensive than alternative energy - that is when it makes SENSE to transition over.


It should be free market driven.


The other thing - technology is always leaping by bounds in the future - we are probably better off taking the few extra decades to develop alternative fuels - because we don't have the technology in place yet.

Most of the government programs in this area have been expensive and not successful - the ethanol situation in one case in point - it makes no sense economically, or even from an energy point of view.

One point - the United States does have a substantial amount of oil shales reserves which when the price of oil rises to a certain point - will kick in -


We have an interim safety net.

Mark - take another look at the energy situation.

Everytime a car is built, we are locking ourselves into what the care will burn in the engine for, let's say, 100,000 miles.

Let's go one step further - everytime a house is built, we are locking ourselves into a certain amount of heating for that house, a certain amount of electricity - and a certain about of gas to drive to and from that house to jobs, stores etc.

The single largest energy use is the suburbs - build a house and you have locked in energy use - even to drive from the jobs center to that house.

Move people to the cities - and instantly you have less heating, because they are in apartments - and less driving - because people walk to a store and take trains - even if they have a car in the city, they use it less.

The single one thing that can be done is to get more people to live in urban environments.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 10, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Leichtman has referred to this story before:

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-politics/2010-texas-governors-race/former-perry-staffer-in-green-party-drive/

Probably no longer timely in "Fix" time, it should still be referenced WRT Goodhair in the future.

Brigade, fed support of small biz lending could stand to be more robust. At least, here in TX, small biz lending is weak enough to be a brake on growth and recovery.

It is also not credible to argue for more tax relief when fed income taxes are at an historic low; however, I am not implying that you were personally arguing for more tax relief.

American publicly traded corporations are currently "hoarding" cash because, I think, they believe that demand is not there for more product and service. Small biz, on the other hand, our greatest job creator, is cash strapped, and community banks need
encouragement to lend.

The core of what the Admin wants from Congress: extended unemployment benefits and aid to state governments, is neatly countercyclical and not subject to whole new levels of bureaucracy. I do not believe for one minute that those looking for work will stop looking [in any substantial number] because they can still buy necessities on UC. I do fear that states will continue to be irresponsible if they are encouraged to rely more on fed assistance, but the cold fact is that they cannot print money and a worldwide recession is beyond a state lege to manipulate in any way. So the risk of the moral hazard is outweighed by the benefits of keeping teachers employed and schools open, and giving states some breathing room, IMHO.

Let me tie in something less prosaic than state budget shortfalls. Even the American Petroleum Institute argues that oil is ever more scarce and expensive to locate. Rather than wait until the last precious drop of crude and the world war to control it, we could justify as cheap a massive, generation long, program of conservation initiatives and alternate energy seed money - including money for nukes, natural gas, wind, hydro, solar, etc., as well as seed money for high speed North American rail.
Airplanes will become impossible to efficiently fuel, perhaps in my lifetime [I am 66, but in good health]. Aviation will be a military prerogative. I suspect transoceanic shipping will have to rely on nukes.

Try to imagine a world on the brink of no readily available petroleum. Put a time frame on that prospect. I say 60 years. Some say 100 years. Some say 20 years.
Divide your time frame by two and start your projects. With foresight, you reach the point where the economy can continue as productive and without desperate wars for fuel.

And I have not invoked climate change here. I just want to save the economy and the national security of my country, and of its friends. If we get serious, others will follow [or perish]. If we do not get serious, my granddaughters, and everybody's grandkids will have dust.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 10, 2010 8:09 AM | Report abuse

I leave for a little while - and you all run out of things to talk about.

==

So why don't you give us a year or two and see if we come up with any new material, pest.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 10, 2010 2:14 AM | Report abuse

@DDAWD: I own parrots, they're brighter than these brainless jerks. You won't see a parrot biting off his own foot or anything equivalent to this jerky defiance of self interest.

Earlier zouk was quoting *Laffer* he of the famous discredited *curve* exactly as if the guy was still credible.

Parrot can learn. These GOP dweebs are more like ants.

I don't get it with all brigade's weird sex allusions, he really seems like one majorly sick guy. Never seen a "straight" guy so obsessed with fellatio.

Not many gay ones either.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 10, 2010 2:06 AM | Report abuse

"Krugman won a Nobel. You're a potty-mouth Republican. I'll listen to him and I only read one line of your post.

Posted by: Noacoler "

haha, gotta love the Sean Hannity parrot

*squak* Krugman's an idiot

*squak* Nobel Prizes have a liberal bias

*squak* job creation is a liberal goal

*squak* REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN

Posted by: DDAWD | July 10, 2010 1:46 AM | Report abuse

Krugman won a Nobel. You're a potty-mouth Republican. I'll listen to him and I only read one line of your post.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 11:40 PM | Report abuse

I leave for a little while - and you all run out of things to talk about.


I leave and you have no one to hate.

I leave and none of you have any material.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

Critics dismissed the event as a commercialized, Coney Island-style circus, and reenactors haven't been allowed to use the battlefield since.

_____________________________


Great Line.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


Im glad you like the comments section at RCP -

It is clear that the liberals are losing steam - they just don't want to defend Obama anymore.

What is a liberal going to say now - Obama is going to be transparent ?

Not when he has 2000 page bills dumped in the middle of the night - which few people know about the secret provisions.

The liberals can't give the garbage line about bipartisanship anymore.

The liberals can't give the garbage line about being post-racial anymore.


The liberals can't give the garbage line about being post-partisan anymore.


It's OVER - the bull doesn't fly anymore.


What is worse - the ENTIRE LIBERAL PHILOSOPHY has lost its appeal on account of Obama - Obama has exposed the bankruptcy and fraud of the whole thing.


What is even worse - Obama has mixed up American liberalism with socialism and his far-left crap -


By doing that, Obama has completely discredited moderate liberalism - because they can't trust the democrats not to swing to the far left.


Obama has destroyed the democratic party for at least a generation - no one will EVER trust them again - not in our lifetimes.


Obama will be impeached next year.

The only question is whether Obama will have to resign over something that seems to be just under the surface - because Obama is acting like there is something there.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 11:14 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


I know that all day you look up at the clouds to see if you can make out the outline of "37" - just to see if 37 is up there, watching you.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse

12bAR


You only say Bwahahaha when you know I'm right.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 10:54 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler wrote,
"I think Krugman said it .. the deficit hawks got to move their little hobbyhorse back to the foreground and stop the stimulis and now we're losing ground again."

---

Krugman is a dolt. Everything is somebody else's fault. Let the government dole out taxpayer money to stimulate the economy and the only things than get stimulated are favored interests and pet causes. When you see that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are never subject to any rules or oversight, you know Washington isn't serious. Small businesses create jobs, but they need access to capital. The government bailed out the banks, but the banks aren't lending. If the government decides who gets the money, you can bet an ability to repay and a sound business model will be low on the list of priorities. How do you think we got in this mess? Krugman is a bookworm who's full of himself because other bookworms give him awards and praise him. He couldn't manage a Kool-Aid stand. These are the kind of people Obama loves. Who's this utter oaf he's letting run NASA?

I think some New York investors are teaming up to buy Vietnam, raze it, and start over from scratch. Insider info. Sell while you still can.

Posted by: Brigade | July 9, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

Yeah food riots. Funny, I never made mistakes like that typing by hunt and peck. Now that I clatter I get ahead of myself.

If Republicans make gains, I expect serious calamity, ever worsening because they refuse to learn. All the stimulus through tax cuts
junk that never works.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 10:29 PM | Report abuse

I see that RCP has a new comments section. I just skipped through the thread with the most comments. Looks like a few of the regulars are still there (joe m. and No One Important) still predicting the end of the world being just around the corner. Most of the regulars are gone.

Lots of complaints about posts disappearing which is blamed on the liberals. I got news for them--there are no liberals on RCP, so I doubt that's the reason.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 9, 2010 10:07 PM | Report abuse

Food rights?

Oh, you mean food fights on TV?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 9, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

@12B: I think Krugman said it .. the deficit hawks got to move their little hobbyhorse back to the foreground and stop the stimulis and now we're losing ground again. I don't care how in debt we go .. we both knew people who lived through the depressions and it damaged people more than living through a war.

I expect to see food rights back in the USA on TV from VN

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Remember I said that comments on some blogs had dropped way off. RCP has a total of about 150 comments all day today. That used to be 500 comments or more.

Of those 150 comments, 120 will be conservative.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 9, 2010 9:57 PM | Report abuse

Female Republican politicians all look like clones. Some kind of weird freaky Stepford wife look. I bet they could stab you in the back and smile that cold smile while doing it.

Posted by: janouzpoha | July 9, 2010 9:54 PM | Report abuse

There is no more to it.
--------------------------------
I know.

I worry that the economy is slumping again after the pickup earlier in the year. I'm reading the Fed is investigating their ways of breathing some life into the economy but they are just about out of tools.

Do you have any views about the state of the economy, noa?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 9, 2010 9:53 PM | Report abuse

Don't try to analyze him 12B that's like trying to see faces in clouds. He's here to annoy us and his brain is badly damaged. End of story. There is no more to it.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 9:47 PM | Report abuse

No wonder it's so frustrating trying to discuss anything with 37th, and I know I used to try. He's so convinced that his opinion is "revealed truth". Honestly, I question that 37th actually knows the difference between opinion and fact.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 9, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

You have it backwards, 12B. We say "cosign" as a euphemism for "sine" as a euphemism for "sign" as a euphemism for (pauses to take another hit of crystal and forgets) .. and it's all a deception to cover for the fact that we're all coordinated by backchannel emails to discredit 37th, who's here fro Krypton to save the world.

Hey 37th hurry the hell up and die.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 9:38 PM | Report abuse

37th, blow me

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 9:33 PM | Report abuse

If we were all locked up in a mental institution, you'd be picking the frickin' lock trying to get in.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 9, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Obama is the complete opposite of what he claimed to be in 2008.

There is a word for that.

FRAUD.


The cabal knows it - you can't even defend Obama anymore.

Gone is all the garbage about bipartisanship, post-racial, post-partisan, transparent administration that the NATION WAS PROMISED.


It is amazing that Obama hasn't even made an EFFORT IN THAT DIRECTION.


You all are pathetic and sad - you have nothing to defend, nothing to say, nothing of substance to write about -


NOW ALL YOU DO IS HATE.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 9:31 PM | Report abuse

How could I forget the biggest conspiracy, that the liberals on this blog have daily email conferences how to defeat 37th. Then, they give each other signals on the blog by saying "cosign".

Common sense would tell you that if they are emailing each other, they wouldn't have to cosign each other on the blog. They'd just email secretly.

Bwahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 9, 2010 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Does the Cabal have anything else to say - besides harassing other posters ???

12Bar - look at this thread - nothing but the liberals complaining about other posters.


Are you sure you all are not locked up together in a mental institution ???

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 9:27 PM | Report abuse

If I had a nickel for every time 37th said "clearly something is going on", I'd be rich.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 9, 2010 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Oh, yeah, I remember another of your suspicions. That someone was purposely manipulating Intrade just to influence public opinion or something. It couldn't just represent the bettors on HCR passing. NO, it had to be some kind of conspiracy.

Then, HCR passed. Then we heard nothing more about the conspiracy. Because it never was a conspiracy which common sense could have told you to begin with. Why would Congress be influenced by Intrade?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 9, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

See, 37th, this is what you get from staying up three days at a time smoking crystal. You think there are vast conspiracies whirling around you.

Hurry up and OD and die. THe quicker you're in the morgue, the better for this blog, and the better for the world.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

What was it you were so convinced of before HCR passed. Some nutty suspicion you were SO convinced, that Nancy Pelosi was just trying to tell Obama something or other, or Obama was trying to tell Pelosi something. You ARE clinically paranoid, so you are always going to have some suspicion that no one else has.

Then you'll spend a bunch of time trying to convince us. Then nothing will come of it, then you'll eventually forget all about it. Until the next suspicion hits you.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 9, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

9:10 37th post confirms #3

"Clearly, something is going on.

"Maybe Obama thinks he will have to resign on account of the Blago trial"

your redundancy is getting to be really lame.

why don't we just summarize "37th's" brilliant
contributions to this site over the last few months and move on:
1. I hate Obama;
2. I hate all Ds;
3. Obama is dirt and should resign;
4. Obama caused every malady on earth;
5. All Ds are dirt and should resign; and
6. Every blogger that comes to this site
and disagrees with my lunancy should be
banned FOR LIFE.

that pretty much summarizes the garbage that
37th has posted here ad nausea and passes off as serious political thought

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 9:18 PM | Report abuse

@37th,

You ALWAYS think something is going on. Every think it might just be you?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 9, 2010 9:16 PM | Report abuse

I have three words for you all:


BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGY

Go back and read about that - this is Obama - that is what Obama is all about

It explains more than you might think.

Black Panthers getting off on account of Obama - all these radical statements coming out of the administration.

Anyway - there is a strange thing going on with Obama - either he doesn't want to run for re-election - or he believes that something will come out that will force him to resign.

But he is certainly not acting like a person would if they cared about their future political standing - or even the standing of their political party.


Clearly, something is going on.

Maybe Obama thinks he will have to resign on account of the Blago trial.


but something is going on.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

This story showing the Ca. initiative on legalizing pot looks like it is going down to defeat is certainly surprising.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/california-politics/2010/07/marijuana-legalization-california-voters-oppose-measure-by-narrow-margin-new-poll-shows.html

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 8:46 PM | Report abuse

This story showing the Ca. initiative on legalizing pot looks like it is going down to defeat is certainly surprising.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/california-politics/2010/07/marijuana-legalization-california-voters-oppose-measure-by-narrow-margin-new-poll-shows.html

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 8:42 PM | Report abuse

Yea, broadwayjoe - why haven't we heard you complain about [Nimrata Kaur Randhawa]...?

* * * *

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 8:03 PM
_________________

Funny you should ask, banned fake 37/Flowers....

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 9, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Conservatives can do humor. It's just that their idea of humor is completely different. Conservatives think Rush Limbaugh is funny. And so does Rush.

The rest of us don't think Rush is so funny.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | July 9, 2010 8:23 PM | Report abuse

@@DDAWD: there was a great article in TNR about 20 years ago before Fred Barnes took over and completely wrecked it. Back them Krauthammer was merely a conservative writer there and not totally braindead nuts and Sydney Blumenthal never disappointed.

Anyway it was about a conservative fete of Jesse Helms and the speakers trying to do humor. They couldn't. Something about fog and Foggy Bottom, just awful.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 8:19 PM | Report abuse

Dennis Miller is a comedian? That is truly breaking news.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Dennis Miller is a comedian? That is truly breaking news.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 8:17 PM | Report abuse

leichtman, I think conservatives are humor impaired. Did you ever watch that FOX News knockoff of The Daily Show? Man, that was a wreck.

Are there any conservative comedians? Dennis Miller is the only one who comes to mind. I'm not sure if I've actually heard any of the redneck comedians espouse any political views.

Posted by: DDAWD | July 9, 2010 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Uh, 37th, anyone who does as much meth as you do is completely incapable of "performing," so I wouldn't noodge too much in that direction if I were you.

Shrivel up, cretin, shrivel up.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Yea, broadwayjoe - why haven't we heard you complain about Nikki Haley and her white lovers lately ?

Is it because Obama made the statement about his middle name and the jewish trust of him ?

Anyway - how has your success been with white women lately ?? Are they still rejecting you ?


Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 8:03 PM | Report abuse

No, 37th I want to make holding racists attitudes a capital crime, execution to be carried out using a tongue depressor.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 8:03 PM | Report abuse

I posted the link to the Austin Statesman, its a really sleazy GOP story that Perry wants to deny any involvment with even though the $200,000 came directly from associates of his and admitted to in recent depositions. The story deserves a thread and is as impt as the GOP New Hampshire phone jamming story from 2006. Its fascinating that The Fix wasted our time on a thread about Perry as a potential GOP POTUS candidate but can't seem to google The Austin Statesman and find that story about his shannanagans.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler wrote,
"I think racism should be a capital crime and all white people should be charged with it.

I hold a block party every time someone is gunned down in Chicago."


____________________________________


Actually racism is not a crime at all - one can not legislate how one thinks.

What is a crime is discrimination.

If you think racism is a crime, you should file a complaint against Rev. Wright and Obama.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

it's sarcasm brigade. Do conservatives have a problem understanding that foreign concept?
seems like we have had that discussion before.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 7:46 PM
---

And once again, you recognize it on one side of the exchange and come up empty on the other. Should we talk about irony?

Posted by: Brigade | July 9, 2010 7:54 PM | Report abuse

leichtman1 wrote,
"EVERY SINGLE THREAD by the Fix is about positive R candidates activities.
The Texas GOP is under investigation for an illegal $200,000 contribution by a former Perry chief of staff to a third party candidate gets ZERO coverage by the FIX b/c the story puts a GOP candidate in a bad light light. We certainly wouldn't want to discuss that political story, would we The Fix?"
---

In all fairness, we can pretty much discuss anything we want. I don't think anyone's ever been banned for drifting off topic. Some of the threads generate a lot of heat, and some of them very quickly run out of steam. The only thing I've heard about the contribution by the Perry supporter is from you. Feel free to fill us in on the details.

And BWJ, I'm getting antsy for some news on Nikki Haley.

Posted by: Brigade | July 9, 2010 7:51 PM | Report abuse

Brigade


Please don't forget the illegal aliens who are involved with gang violence in Chicago.

Just thought I would mention that.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 7:47 PM | Report abuse

it's sarcasm brigade. Do conservatives have a problem understanding that foreign concept?
seems like we have had that discussion before.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


They don't need to shut down the blog.

But you can just leave if you don't like it.


So leave.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 7:45 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler wrote,
"I think racism should be a capital crime and all white people should be charged with it.

I hold a block party every time someone is gunned down in Chicago."
----

Uh, I think most of the victims of the Chicago gang violence are black. Since you celebrate, you should probably charge yourself with a capital crime. The punishment will be having Drindl flog your log.

Posted by: Brigade | July 9, 2010 7:42 PM | Report abuse

I actually think Aaron is really good.

Posted by: DDAWD | July 9, 2010 7:37 PM | Report abuse

"The liberals hate women who are conservatives"
interesting: my wife's closest 2 female friends are ultra conservatives she doesn't agree with about anything. Where the heck do you dream up this c***? My guess is you just start typing I hate Ds now let me start making up something to finish that thought reghardless how inane.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Tina: Term is used primarily within the homosexual community and derives its name from "Christina," an alliterative nickname for crystal meth.

__________________________________-

You keep betraying yourself.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Hey 37th, let me give you a word of free advice.

Go eat feces.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 7:29 PM | Report abuse

"Uh, Aaron and Felicia are no less "talented" than CC is.

This blog needs a new "gracious host," someone a lot more committed to reporting, a lot less committed to favoring the Republican Party, and a lot more talented at analysis, and a lot LOT more talented at writing.

"It remains to be seen." (spits)

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 7:07 PM"
___________

Hate to say it but they need to shut it down for awhile.

The Dems in trouble false narratives, fake controversies (BHO in trouble with Wal-Mart Moms), promotions of GOP wannabe candidates I've never heard of (like today), shoutouts to Fix cronies some of whom are wildly discredited public figures, cherry picked anti-BHO polls (sometimes posted INSTEAD OF positive Post-sponsored polls, and the stubborn refusal (with two exceptions over the last TWO YEARS) to say anything positive about our 44th President are just a few -- LOL -- of the reasons to give this blog a long time out.

At its worst, the blog seems to just cut and paste RNC and stormfront press releases and talking points.

Other than the Fix, no newspaper-sponsored blog gives rightwing trolls carte blanche to post racist foolish junk 24/7.

Not a one. IMO.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 9, 2010 7:24 PM | Report abuse

The liberals hate women who are conservatives - and they hate minorities who are conservatives too.

For some reason, the liberals think they "own" minorities and women.

Not sure how this all started - but it is a really bad attitude.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

The baggers ARE morons. Anyone seen a picture of them that didn't look like a bunch of vagrants and mental oatients? Look at the lead a few days ago, the guy with the mutton chops and tricorn. Tell me with a straight face that guy WASN'T recruited from a tent in the weeds. They routed him out, gave him a new jacket to wear, a funny hat with a teabag on it, and promised him a jug of T-bird if he'd mill around in the crowd.

Look at his face. The guy doesn't even know what year it is.

Funny that the meth addict gets all bent up over the teabaggers. Sexual slurs? Nowhere in sight. Lay off the tina, 37th, better yet see how much you can do in under a minute. Can you get an 8-ball into your pipe all at once? Try it!

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Don't forget

I hate successful black people.
I celebrate inner city murders.

Posted by: DDAWD | July 9, 2010 6:34 PM


________________________________

Yea we understand that you were always like this.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 7:18 PM | Report abuse

I just watched the commercials and its about as lame as this entire thread. Some unknown R calls herself an ExtraOrdinary Conservative and that is breaking news to the Fix. Give me a break this is worthless faux journalism. Its a weak, nonmemorable commercial, and we should care why?

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 7:15 PM | Report abuse

Broadwayjoe writes:

the baggers like Angle are "quasi-libertarians." If "quasi-libertarians" means semi-literate, violent racist idiots brandishing automatic weapons and misspelled n-word signs at rallies, yep, guess he's right.

_______________________________________


OK - again a mischaracterization - but broadwayjoe INSISTS that everyone agree with his twisted views of reality.

Notice the hate-filled rant.


Notice the sexual slur

Notice the lies - saying that the Tea Party is violent - and holding weapons.


AND yet, a comment about the actual weapons in Chicago being used in actual violence is treated with hostility.

Broadwayjoe throws in some name-calling - and another dig at the intelligence of millions of people.


This is just a HATE FILLED RANT - nothing less.

BROADWAYJOE YOU SHOULD BE BANNED -


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 7:14 PM | Report abuse

@ Fix interns:

I just saw your free embed of Karen Handel's campaign ad.

Please see me.

Business Department

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 9, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

Leichtman


You mischaracterize everything -


Which makes you worthless - I keep on telling you


Clean up your act - your main problem is that when someone is polite to you, you don't get the hint, do you ?

What is wrong with you ?


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

Uh, Aaron and Felicia are no less "talented" than CC is.

This blog needs a new "gracious host," someone a lot more committed to reporting, a lot less committed to favoring the Republican Party, and a lot more talented at analysis, and a lot LOT more talented at writing.

"It remains to be seen." (spits)

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 7:07 PM | Report abuse

actually I summarized your worthless spamming of this site precisely and that gets under your skin b/c you can now understand how worthless those comments are that you spend your entire life posting and reposting. We get it it. You hate Obama and you hate Ds, they should all resign, are responsible for every malady on this planet and all who disagree should be banned for Life AND BEYOND. So what; who cares?

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Almost the entire CABAL is here - where is 12barblues?

Running a little late ?

Broadwayjoe - are you going to complain that all white people are racist tonight -


Or are you just going to look under a rock and find a "proxy issue" to hide the racism that you know is there ???

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

@L1: ... and NO mention by the Fix, or his interns, of tea bagger Sharron "Right" Angle's recent unhinged "making lemonade out of lemons" comment supporting pregnancies resulting from rape.

Wait a minute -- Fix "concluded" the baggers like Angle are "quasi-libertarians." If "quasi-libertarians" means semi-literate, violent racist idiots brandishing automatic weapons and misspelled n-word signs at rallies, yep, guess he's right.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 9, 2010 7:01 PM | Report abuse

I totally agree with broadway. This is a worthless thread about bad R campaign that
absolutely no one in the political world cares anything about, period. CC needs to hire better talent.

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Leichtman


You are wrong - you are mischaracterizing everything.

I suggest you state your opinion and defend it - and leave other posters alone.

Where does one go to complain about the TOTAL MEDIA BLACKOUT on negative information on Obama during the 2008 election ?

Seriously man, your side has gotten a free ride from the press for a long time - in that context, you have nothing to complain about.

And yet, you complain, and the other posters here complain.

It is ridiculous.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 6:58 PM | Report abuse

precisely what did I post summarizing your sentiments over the last few months do you disagree with other than I should be banned for life AND BEYOND.
and this is what you pass off as intelligent political thought.

What I would like to ask Felicia is why
EVERY SINGLE THREAD by the Fix is about positive R candidates activities.
The Texas GOP is under investigation for an illegal $200,000 contribution by a former Perry chief of staff to a third party candidate gets ZERO coverage by the FIX b/c the story puts a GOP candidate in a bad light light. We certainly wouldn't want to discuss that political story, would we The Fix?

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2010/06/24/former_perry_aide_paid_for_abo.html

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 6:46 PM | Report abuse

precisely what did I post summarizing your sentiments over the last few months do you disagree with other than I should be banned for life AND BEYOND.
and this is what you pass off as intelligent political thought.

What I would like to ask Felicia is why
EVERY SINGLE THREAD by the Fix is about positive R candidates activities.
The Texas GOP is under investigation for an illegal $200,000 contribution by a former Perry chief of staff to a third party candidate gets ZERO coverage by the FIX b/c the story puts a GOP candidate in a bad light light. We certainly wouldn't want to discuss that political story, would we The Fix?

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2010/06/24/former_perry_aide_paid_for_abo.html

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse

ddawd


Such comments like the one you made at 6:34 are sick.


You are constantly generating hostility toward other posters.

The hostile comments from the democrats have to stop.

This is the problem on this blog - the democrats and the far left are venting their anger at Obama.

It is Obama who you are disappointed in - the right is doing everything as it always has.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 6:43 PM | Report abuse

I think racism should be a capital crime and all white people should be charged with it.

I hold a block party every time someone is gunned down in Chicago.

I absolutely hate the Constitution, too. I grind it underfoot. And your little dog too! Er, I mean the Bill of Rights.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

This is what passes as news and analysis in the Post these days? A post about (and embedding totally gratis) a political ad from some female GOP candidate I've never heard of, who's running second or third pre-primary.

How does anyone wake up and start typing a post about "Karen Handel"?

Weak tea.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | July 9, 2010 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Don't forget

I hate successful black people.
I celebrate inner city murders.

Posted by: DDAWD | July 9, 2010 6:34 PM | Report abuse

leichtman


Again, none of your posting is true.

And again, you are not engaging in the substance of the conversation - instead you are complaining about other posters.

And trying to go after a poster who has already been LYNCHED BY A PARTISAN MOB.

The body is still hanging from tree - twisting in the wind - and you decide that you want to still take some swipes at it.


Clearly, you are still not being CIVIL.


You are bringing a hostility to the blog which is uncalled for.

You should be BANNED FOR LIFE AND BEYOND.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Sometimes this place feels like being back in "second" grade.

why don't we just summarize "37th's" brilliant
contributions to this site over the last few months and move on:
1. I hate Obama;
2. I hate all Ds;
3. Obama is dirt and should resign;
4. Obama caused every malady on earth;
5. All Ds are dirt and should resign; and
6. Every blogger that comes to this site
and disagrees with my lunancy should be
banned FOR LIFE.

that pretty much summarizes the garbage that
37th has posted here ad nausea and passes off as serious political thought.

again 37th and ZOUK if you are so very proud
of the garbage you shovel here every two minutes, why do you constantly change your moniker, or do you think we just haven't noticed?

Posted by: leichtman1 | July 9, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

On this thread, all we have is the liberals trying to OBSTRUCT THE CONVERSATION.


Instead of engaging any issue at all -

And all day today we had drinl with her mindless copying and pasting.


Then they have the nerve to complain about me.

Seriously folks, the liberals on here are a joke - they contribute little - they think that harassment of other posters is actual debate - and everyone has to tolerate their most outrageous charges.

Then the conservatives are taken to task for ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT HOW BAD OBAMA IS.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Marie and Bob Sanderson are creating a hostile atmosphere here - and are engaging in UNCIVIL BEHAVIOR. As such, both should be BANNED FOR LIFE and beyond.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Drink!

Posted by: JakeD3 | July 9, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

"worked herself all the way to the White House," a reference to her tenure as deputy chief of staff to former Vice President Dan Quayle's wife, Marilyn.


WOW THIS IS REALLY CLOSE TO THE TOP

Deputy to the Chief of Staff to the WIFE of the Vice President

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

present and unaccounted for

You really shouldn't throw stones at 37 - he is on your side - and the truth is you don't have too many friends on here.

.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Sometimes this place feels like being back in third grade

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Marie and Bob Sanderson are creating a hostile atmosphere here - and are engaging in UNCIVIL BEHAVIOR.


As such, both should be BANNED FOR LIFE and beyond.


Thank you.


.

Posted by: FlowersOfPeace | July 9, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

as long as we are doing the best of cilizza:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Folks,
As predicted, "37th and 0" has re-appeared under a series of other names (several of which I have banned) since we initially banned him/her on Sunday.

This is nothing new: "ChrisFox" aka "noacoler" has done the same thing repeatedly as well.

Comments section don't have to be ruled by a few people shouting at each other on opposite sides of the political spectrum. I am hoping we can prove that in the coming months.
Thanks for your patience.
Chris
Posted by: Chris_Cillizza | June 29, 2010 6:04 PM

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Noa,
I really think you are on shaky ground.
Having read a fair number of your posts over the months, you have engaged in the same sort of personal attacks that you cast on others.
Banning 37th made sense. As did banning you. Both were consistent with the rules of fair play on the blog. You both chose to ignore them.

Chris
Posted by: Chris_Cillizza | June 29, 2010 6:52 PM

Posted by: present-and-unaccounted-for | July 9, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

FYI

All,

1. Ceflynline and Fairlinton: Thanks for your thoughtfulness and patience. I believe that the comments section will get better sooner rather than later so hopefully it will be rewarded.

2. 37th/Heatwave has been banned AGAIN. Not sure what else I can do other than keep banning him. And he will continue to return under other names.

3. ChrisFox/Noa: The comparison between you and 37th is based on your desire to return repeatedly under other names despite being banned. I continue to be baffled as to why you spend so much time getting back to a blog you disdain so much but that's another conversation.

4. To everyone else: Commenting on blogs remains very much a work in progress. The Post's goal is to allow as free a discussion as possible without permitting personal attacks and other online savagery. It seems a pretty easy goal to meet. Treat people online like you would offline.

Chris

Posted by: Chris_Cillizza | June 29, 2010 9:18 PM

Posted by: mariewilson11 | July 9, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

hey don't forget :

3. ChrisFox/Noa: The comparison between you and 37th is based on your desire to return repeatedly under other names despite being banned. I continue to be baffled as to why you spend so much time getting back to a blog you disdain so much but that's another conversation.


Neocolor = 37th according to the Ref.

Posted by: present-and-unaccounted-for | July 9, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Reminder to Felicia Sonmez

"All,

1. Ceflynline and Fairlinton: Thanks for your thoughtfulness and patience. I believe that the comments section will get better sooner rather than later so hopefully it will be rewarded.

2. 37th/Heatwave has been banned AGAIN. Not sure what else I can do other than keep banning him. And he will continue to return under other names.....


Chris

Posted by: Chris_Cillizza | June 29, 2010 9:18 PM"

Posted by: BobSanderson | July 9, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Fix Featured Republican of the Day: Karen Handel

What is not to like?

"deputy chief of staff to former Vice President Dan Quayle's wife, Marilyn" (heavy hitting deputy Chief of staff to the wife of a stellar Republican VP) + ox wearing lipstick (there is something the nation needs) + outsider(forget the White House reference earlier) = year of the Republican woman or month of the hockey mom or season of the mama Grizzly or watch out for the pit bull or I'm in the tea party folks.

I am losing track of the many Republican scams to sell candidates simply with lame snappy labels and ever deeper bumper sticker philosophies.

Posted by: BobSanderson | July 9, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

I guess it's better than "mama grizzlies" or "carry rapist daddy's baby to term" but it's still pretty thin stuff.

Posted by: Noacoler | July 9, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

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