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Hall of Fame: FDR in a Landslide!

FDR is a Hall of Famer!

In a landslide reminiscent of his defeat of Alf Landon in the 1936 presidential election, Franklin Delano Roosevelt crushed the competition to become the first Fix Political Hall of Fame inductee voted in by the people.

Out of nearly 2,000 votes cast, FDR won 59 percent of the ballots while former House Speaker Tip O'Neill came in a distant second and former President Richard Nixon brought up the rear with 17 percent.

Many people -- including the Post's own legendary Dan Balz -- cast the induction of FDR into the HOF as righting a wrong perpetrated by the Fix when Roosevelt was excluded from the inaugural class.

After all, Roosevelt was the only president in history to be elected to four terms in office -- and momentous terms at that.

Roosevelt's time in office was bookended by the Great Depression and World War II -- perhaps the biggest domestic and international crisis that faced America during the 20th century -- and he managed to wring victory out of both situations.

His "New Deal" -- a massive growth in government to lead the country out of the Great Depression -- spawned a generation of politicians (like O'Neill) who ascribed to the idea that government can and should have a role to play in the lives of Americans.

His statesmanship and savvy helped America play a critical role in winning the second world war, a victory that established the U.S. as a world superpower.

And, on a more personal level, Roosevelt's story -- born into privilege, struck by a debilitating case of polio, triumphing in spite of limitations -- is utterly American.

For all those reasons (and more), Roosevelt now joins the pantheon of superstars in the hallowed halls of the Fix Political Hall of Fame.

Who's next? The comments section is open for nominations. We'll take them for the next week before picking three politicians to argue the case for and against their inclusion.

By Chris Cillizza  |  July 24, 2009; 5:30 PM ET
Categories:  Hall of Fame  
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Next: Morning Fix: What's Next for Palin?


MLK: more influential in shaping american society then any other person of the twentieth century and almost universally admired.

Posted by: theamazingjex | July 28, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Re: Bill Clinton

He reclaimed the White House for the Democrats after 12 years of Republican control, not "16 years," as indicated in his Hall of Fame citation.

Posted by: pmyette | July 27, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

I like the RFK nominations, but I really think JFK was politically superior. RFK's 1968 campaign was historic and deserves recognition, but I think Nixon/Kennedy 1960 overshadows it. In fact, maybe the next round of HOF voting should be a Nixon/JFK rematch...

Posted by: timmerq | July 27, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

A few that haven't gotten many mentions (that I have seen, and I admit I haven't looked that closely):

Andrew Jackson. One of the most influential president's of all time.

Richard Russell ruled the Senate back in the day.

Bobby Kennedy. The greatest of the Kennedy clan with tons of unfulfilled potential. It's been rumored there are more posters of him on the Hill than any other pol.

And I really like the idea someone had about being admitted as long as you garnered a certain percentage like 70%. Otherwise a lot of qualified pols will be left out of this...

Posted by: w_brown_4 | July 27, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Mike Mansfield (D-MT):
Longest serving senate majority leader in history.
Brought a sense of bipartisan cooperation to the Senate (putting in place things like the Mansfield rule)
One of the first officials to adversely comment on the Vietnam War
played a critical role in getting the Civil Rights Act through the Senate.
Professor of East Asian affairs before he served as senator, ambassador to Japan after

Posted by: TylerTheEvil | July 27, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Harry S. Truman. He is often overlooked. He made the hard decisions to drop the A-Bomb and end the war. He's the guy who actually did start the process to desegregate the armed forces. He's the guy who pushed the Marshall Plan and the United Nations. Often in the euphoria of victory many good plans go astray. But Truman used victory to push the US toward further heights.

Easy Choice. Truman -- most under-rated President in U.S. History. He's actually one of the top 5. (FDR, Teddy, Lincoln, Truman and Washington) (2 Republicans, 2 Democrats and a Nationalist)

Posted by: dcraven925 | July 27, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Healthcare icon Teddy K. Famous for denying Mary Jo her basic healthcare.

Posted by: leapin | July 27, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

The issue at hand is not whether someone was a good person, a good jurist, or a good president. The issue is whether he or she was a great politician.

Alexander Hamilton was our first great politician, the magnet of the country's first political party, the Federalists. When Burr and Jefferson were tied, it was Hamilton's political power that decided in Jefferson's favor. When the Republicans under Jefferson coalesced around an enemy, that enemy of Hamilton.

Hamilton's political senses resulted in the most important back-room deal in our history: Jefferson got the capital city located in Virginia, while Hamilton got the votes to assume the states' debts and forever cast the country's economic and political system. Hamilton simply snookered Jefferson.

A close second to Hamilton is Hamilton's boss, George Washington. Washington wasn't the greatest general---Greene, Arnold, and Morgan far surpassed him---but he survived more disastrous defeats than Nixon because he played the Congress brilliantly. Then, as President, he balanced the competing interests of Hamilton and Jefferson; after Washington came the deluge: the splintering of American unity. This guy knew politics.

Posted by: maris9 | July 27, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse


While admitting that I came to your blog after seeing you several times on MSNBC's Countdown, I congratulate you on its pertinence and success. Having just looked at the Fix HOF and its inaugural class, I recommend checking the first line's dateline on President Clinton, since President Carter left office in January 1981 rather than in 1977.


Posted by: jpphjr | July 27, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Reviewing the field,I would second the nominations of Hubert Humphrey and Richard Nixon as well as Eleanor Roosevelt.

Posted by: mcknight131 | July 27, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Since we're all pumped up about socialism, how about recognizing the initiator of so many of our now beloved social programs---social security,medicare etc. Eugene V. Debs wasn't perfect but his vision was excellent, and the results are there to see.

Posted by: mcknight131 | July 27, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

@vbhoomes: must disagree here. While marriage may have been the vehicle that gave both women the opportunity to exercise their respective greatness, it could not create that greatness. Eleanor Roosevelt, Lady Bird Johnson, these were women of generosity and humanity, and Hillary Clinton owed nothing to Bill in taking on the nomination. Without a Barack Obama to upstage her, do you have any doubt that we would now be in a second "Clinton" presidency? She's been an achiever all her life, an arc that was already evident in her youth.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 26, 2009 10:08 PM | Report abuse

Not a lot of female candidates. How about Ann Richards?

Posted by: DDAWD | July 26, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton goes into the Hall of Fame on her own.
To become the first woman with a serious candidacy for
president of the United States is her own accomplishment.
Being married to Bill Clinton opened a door, but it was
Hillary's hard work and competence that allowed her to
be taken seriously and walk through that door.
She was a hard-working senator/candidate/and is putting her nose down as secretary of state.

Posted by: canaldoc | July 26, 2009 8:36 PM | Report abuse

Eleanor Roosevelt, Hillary Clinton, not likely, we would never have even heard of these women if hadn't for who they married. I perfer to see women who did it on their own, like Shirly Chislon, Katie Couric(even though she slept her to the top)even Nancy Pelosi. Don't give me some woman who got their by marriage.

Posted by: vbhoomes | July 26, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Goldwater was the deadbeat who fathered several generations of morally shriveled irresponsible deadbeats.

“The income tax created more criminals than any other single act of government.”

altho he was right about some things..

“You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight.”

“You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight.”

Posted by: drindl | July 26, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Theodore Roosevelt - Assistant Secretary to the Navy, Colonel of the Rough Riders in the Spanish American War, Recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, Governor of NY, President as American turned the page on a new century of world power, trust buster, canal builder, author, naturalist, bipartisan leader...if that doesn't get him a nod I'd say the bar is pretty high :)

Posted by: sld2032 | July 26, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Seems odd to me to list possible women for HOF candidates and leave out Lady Bird Johnson. I think she was a greater human being than Ronald Reagan.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 26, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

I still can't believe that Chris believes FDR, arguably the greatest president of the 20th century, is "second-tier" compared to Bill Clinton, LBJ, and Ronald Reagan. This is why I never take the Fix seriously.

Hey, Chris here's another "second-tier" candidate for your "Political Hall of Fame", Abraham Lincoln. What about Thomas Jefferson? George Washington? Thomas Jefferson? Henry Clay? If we're limiting this to the 20th century then all of these people deserve to be in any political Hall of Fame:
Woodrow Wilson
Teddy Roosevelt
John F. Kennedy
Ted Kennedy
Richard Nixon
Sam Rayburn - the longest serving and most effective Speaker of the House of the 20th century
Eleanor Roosevelt - the greatest First Lady of all time
Robert Byrd
Earl Warren - the most influential jurist of the 20th century
William Brennan

Posted by: fable104 | July 26, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Abigail Adams. Eleanor Roosevelt. Hillary Clinton. Sandra Day
O'Connor. Nancy Pelosi. Margaret Chase Smith.
I think there should be three original inductees who are women
that do not have to be voted in, either.
Please do not limit your inductees to men.

Posted by: canaldoc | July 26, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, HHH would be a good inductee, do not agree with his politics but he was a good man who did influence history. I might add Barry Goldwater to join him as a duo inductee, Barry was also a good man, and both men represented the conservative and liberal causes of their era with deceny and character.

Posted by: vbhoomes | July 26, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

"If you go with a Supreme Court Justice, I don't know how you could pick anyone other than John Marshal. Without him, its unlikely the Supreme Court would have ever truly become a co-equal branch of govt."

Yeah, no one else is even close.

Posted by: DDAWD | July 26, 2009 12:52 AM | Report abuse

I second Humphrey. I don't think he'll get the final nod because he was an unapologetic liberal and a decent human being and this column seems more dedicated to people who are opposite. But he was a great man

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 25, 2009 9:38 PM | Report abuse

Hubert Humphrey!

Posted by: althistorian | July 25, 2009 9:24 PM | Report abuse

I nominate Hubert Humphrey for the Hall of Fame for the following reasons:

1. Many of the New Frontier and Great Society programs (i.e. Peace Corps, Job Corps, Medicare, Medicaid, Department of H.U.D., etc.) were actually proposed by Sen. Humphrey in the 1950's. So in many ways, JFK's and LBJ's ideas came from Hubert Humphrey

2. He, like Tip O'Neill, was a child of the New Deal. His commitment to the New Deal was shown during instances such as his opposition to Taft-Hartley or his proposed Missouri Valley Authority.

3. Humphrey was never afraid to champion unpopular causes such as Civil Rights(see his 1948 Democratic Convention speech and his spear heading of the Civil Rights Act through Congress in 1964) and nuclear disarmament.He was one of the first people to propose a nuclear test ban treaty. In fact, JFK told Humphrey after the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty was signed in 1962, "Hubert, this is your treaty."

4. He was instrumental in the founding of Americans for Democratic Action and the merging of the Democratic and Farmer-Labor Parties

Posted by: althistorian | July 25, 2009 9:22 PM | Report abuse

If you go with a Supreme Court Justice, I don't know how you could pick anyone other than John Marshal. Without him, its unlikely the Supreme Court would have ever truly become a co-equal branch of govt.

Posted by: vbhoomes | July 25, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

For your next group, I suggest Sandra Day O'Conner, Huey Long and Judge Roy Bean. All interesting to read about.

Posted by: jgd4406 | July 25, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse


Great nomination! We just went to the JFK Library and Museum this morning.

Posted by: JakeD | July 25, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

What about a HOF devoted to Secretaries of State (and War)? I nominate Henry Stimson.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 25, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

it's all 20th century people so far. thinking about the 19th century, lincoln is an obvious choice, but i also think henry clay deserves to be in there.

back in the 20th, someone mentioned sam rayburn, and i think he also would be a good choice.

Posted by: plathman | July 25, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

I think we should use the political hall of fame to rescue people who contributed far more to our history than they recieved attention. I would second Eugene Debs. And dems should remember it was Wilson who put him in federal prison just for exercising his 1st amendment rights to speak out against Americas involvement in WW1 and it was Republican Harding who freed him from prison.

Posted by: vbhoomes | July 25, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Richard Nixon. For all he left us -- a presidency that defined the excesses, and (hopefully) the apparent limitations, of the imperial presidency.



This DOES now smell like Prof. Gates was set up by a "targeting" apparatus comprised of neighbors who may be affiliated organized community stalkers, along with the complicity of uniformed officers who "know the drill."

But now that President Obama turned it around on the "torture matrix", perhaps his team will start to listen to what we've been saying in this space for a year now.

I'm betting Prof. Gates has been a longtime "target" of the fed- and police-enabled community gang-stalker brigade -- part of a nationwide, GPS-activated nationwide Gestapo created and overseen by a secretive executive branch "multi-agency coordinated action program."

Are the community stalkers the ones who burglarized his house when he was away, and jammed the door shut so it wouldn't open upon his return?

Is that how the media just happened to be outside? Did a cameraman/stalker get his GPS-activated "node" alert and rush to the scene?

When will Team Obama wake and smell the police state bequeathed to a terrorized nation by Bush-Cheney and kept in force by "leave-behinds" who are subverting democracy and the rule of law in America -- with the help of local police who KNOW ALL ABOUT IT?

That's just the beginning. When will Team Obama and the media realize that this powerful and evil cabal within has WEAPONIZED the electromagnetic spectrum, and can deliver debilitating (even fatal) microwave/laser "directed energy weapon" TORTURE, and inflict misery upon any "targeted" citizen, 24/7, wherever they are?

Don't believe it? Neither did I. Until I became a victim of this torture matrix five years ago.

OR (if link is tortured): RE: "GESTAPO USA" (search "stream" or "stories" since the opening page link has been sabotaged).

Posted by: scrivener50 | July 25, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Harry Patch is dead. He was the last British survivor of a useless war that killed 20 million.

Rest in Peace Harry.

Posted by: toritto | July 25, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

His "New Deal" -- a massive growth in government to lead the country out of the Great Depression -- spawned a generation of politicians (like O'Neill) who ascribed to the idea that government can and should have a role to play in the lives of Americans.

Quite the contrary. Modern economists have demonstrated that big government steepened and prolonged a simple downturn

i think we have definitive proof this blog is overwhelmingly liberal.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | July 25, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Certainly we need more nominees from Congress. Two strong candidates would be Ted Kennedy, while he is still alive, and Sam Rayburn, one of the most influential of House Speakers. We also should consider third party leaders such as Eugene Debs.

Posted by: polprof | July 25, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Robert Moses, who for better or worse, transformed New York City into what it today.

Posted by: vbhoomes | July 25, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

I agree that Tip and Nixon deserve inclusion at some future date. In fairness, I think it is tough for a non-president to compete with any president, much less FDR. Perhaps it would worth breaking the votes up by position (president, congress, governors, etc.).

I think the following 20th century presidents deserve at least a vote: TR, Wilson, Truman, Ike, JFK, and Nixon.

For prominent members of Congress: Everett Dirksen, Tip, Newt, Bob Dole, George Mitchell, Sam Rayburn, Robert Taft, Barry Goldwater, Strom Thurmond, and Harry F. Byrd.

In the Governor/Mayor category: I agree with Richard J. Daley and perhaps LaGuardia. But I suspect the case for Rudy Guiliani is even better.

Worthy governors is tougher. But I'd think Nelson Rockefeller, Thomas Dewey, Earl Warren, Adlai Stevenson, and Doug Wilder merit consideration.

Posted by: mmcguire2004 | July 25, 2009 8:36 AM | Report abuse

i can't even remember who i nominated
George Washington?

i'm tired as all get out.
at least you guys got some sleep.

Tip O'Neill? I must be daydreaming.
What's the reason for this?

Posted by: TheBabeNemo | July 25, 2009 4:33 AM | Report abuse

Chris, the fact that you excluded Franklin Delano Roosevelt from your original list but included Ronald Reagan only proves how stupid this contest is.


Think of a Rock Hall of Fame coming out of the checkout counter press, like People Magazine.

With Tina Turner, but not The Who.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 25, 2009 1:01 AM | Report abuse

Is this hall of fame based on merit at all, or are we just asking "who are the most famous politicians for contemporary Americans?" Because it's hard imagining what other criteria placed Reagan and Clinton together in the inaugural class, before all other U.S. politicians. Even by that measure, Obama and Bush should probably have gone first. Then we'd just work our way back in time, skipping non-entities like Garfield and Harrison.

Posted by: nodebris | July 25, 2009 12:09 AM | Report abuse

If Mayors are the order of the day, its nicknames time.

Hizzonna, and Mr. Ed, and a Governor, the Kingfish himself.

But for power used constructively, and political skills abounding,

Mr Sam Rayburn. Class by himself

and John Nance Garner, for defining the Vice Presidency in the days when Cheney was impossible,

And John McCormack, Mr Speaker in natural succession.

Posted by: ceflynline | July 24, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse

Like the baseball Hall of Fame, you should vote each candidate independently. If FDR passes the 50% threshold (or 60% or 67% or 75% or whatever you want to set the arbitrary bat at), then he is in. Likewise, if Tip O'Neill or Richard Nixon gets that percentage of people agreeing that he should be in, then he is in. Running obviously worthy candidates against each other is just plain silly.

I mean, if Tip O'Neill doesn't deserve a place in a political HOF, then what member of Congress does? Nixon is maybe a more questionable case--does being forced to resign count as a lifetime ban and put him in the same category as Pete Rose? Still, vote each person on the individual merits and not against other equally qualified people.

I'm still astounded, too, that FDR wasn't included in the original HOF. I dislike a lot of the policies that FDR set, but I don't deny that he should be an inaugural inductee, certainly more deserving than Reagan, Clinton, or any other 20th-century president. The Fix is usually pretty savvy, but leaving out FDR in the inaugural class was just dumb.

Posted by: blert | July 24, 2009 10:43 PM | Report abuse

Chris, the fact that you excluded Franklin Delano Roosevelt from your original list but included Ronald Reagan only proves how stupid this contest is.

Posted by: fable104 | July 24, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

L. Johnson, Reagan and Clinton are "superstars" of the political world, while Washington, Franklin, Lincoln are excluded, hardly surprising given how little most people in this country know about United States history.

Franklin D Roosevelt is a good choice in a second tier of selections, but he had some monumental faults, as well as successes. His record on civil rights was dismal, being timid in not supporting anti-lynching legislation and allowing Japanese-Americans to be interred in concentration camps. Some of his actions in 1940 and 1941, on behalf of helping Great Britain, were illegal and deceptive, a model for the misdeeds of L. Johnson regarding the Gulf of Tonkin incident, Nixon with Watergate, Bush II with his misleading rationale for invading Iraq.

Roosevelt was occasionally too fiscally conservative, such as when he did not seek higher funding for public works employment, and in reducing federal spending in 1937 - 1938, which was one of the main causes of a severe recession.

Some important New Deal programs associated with Roosevelt actually were initiated by progressive members of Congress, including Social Security, protection for labor unions and FDIC.

Lincoln also had a dismal record on civil liberties, jailing thousands for peaceful dissent. Otherwise he was a great president and one of the shrewdest politicians in the White House. Beyond doubt Lincoln was a better politician and president than L. Johnson, Reagan and Clinton.

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | July 24, 2009 9:34 PM | Report abuse

m_i_a: Goldwater ran in 1964 as a frothing-at-the-mouth hawk, talking about using "little" nuclear weapons in Việt Nam.

His campaign slogan: "In your heart you know he's right"

The parody slogan: "In your heart you know he might"

But the Goldwater of years afterward was a moderate who openly disdained the religious right and said the government had no business poking into the pelvic issues. I'd rather not lay the demise of the GOP at his feet.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 24, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Teddy Roosevelt invented the modern presidency as the supremes came to recognize it 44 years later. He made the USA the number one naval power in the world. He recognized the insidious power of anti-competitive monopolies and oligopolies and by choosing trust busting and regulation of natural monopolies effectively made us a productive capitalist economy [probably the most productive nation in the world by the time he left office] and cut the floor from under the Debs Socialists.

Progressive Republicanism stayed alive through the Eisenhower years, and some would say through Gerry Ford, but its doom was sealed by the Southern strategy as much as by Goldwater, looking back.

He gave us the National Park System as a lasting geographical legacy and he wrote at least a dozen scholarly books. He was a role model for physical and mental fitness and he gave us a guideline for foreign policy and trade policy and domestic economic policy that good presidents have followed and bad ones have ignored.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | July 24, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

FDR is a worthy addition to the HoF.

If we're going to have a mayoral edition of the HoF, I would like to nominate Fiorello LaGuardia, who served twice in Congress and three terms as mayor of New York City. The "Little Flower," as he was known, was a staunchly independent politician who successfully bucked the traditional party system.

Posted by: Gallenod | July 24, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

That would be Democrat FDR, of the New Deal.

Fast forward to 2009, another New Deal in the making, after eight years of the Raw Deal

Posted by: chrisfox8 | July 24, 2009 6:54 PM | Report abuse

I have to say, the two "losers" in this battle are still worthy of the PHoF. I don't know what kind of rotation The Fix will do, but both of them deserve re-consideration at some point.

Additional nominations:
Richard J. Daley
Sam Rayburn
Teddy Roosevelt
Earl Warren
Everett Dirksen

Posted by: mnteng | July 24, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

Let's get some local flavor in here- Richard J. Daley. For over 20 years, he ran Chicago- and that doesn't just mean that he was the mayor, he RAN the show. He steamrolled his policies, dictated the entire Democratic slate (which eventually, was tantamount to deciding who held each office), got a President elected, and is still, in Chicago, known as "'Da Mare". It doesn't hurt that he lived, breathed, ate, and slept politics.

C'mon, CC- you said you wanted politicians at all levels. This one's a gimme!

Posted by: colby1983 | July 24, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

I say we do a Civil Rights round. In that case I would put Robert Kennedy, George Wallace, and Martin Luther King. I know Dr King wasn't a politician, but you could argue that he was the most influential political voice in history of the United States.
All three helped to shape a pivotal part of our history some for good, others not so much.

Posted by: AndyR3 | July 24, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

One of the more controversial figures of his time, he should be (at least) nominated for all the good and bad. His father was a hated man with a dedicated following who built his fortune in an ambitious and controversial way.
His war record is the source of some dispute, but his hero status thrust him into the House of Representatives in 1946.
His personal story is much more tragic than FDR's; in addition to his struggle with illness he also lost a brother, a sister, and a brother-in-law. His close relationship with sister Rosemary created a schism between he and his father when the latter had Rosemary lobotomised.
Won a Pulitzer Prize while serving as a Senator. The 1960 election will live on through history as one of the closest, most controversial, and historic (first Catholic President elected, also the yougest to date) elections of all time. His oratory and "moments" (talking Catholocism in West Virginia, Houston Minister's Conference, first televised debate) throughout the campaign have been studied and copied ever since.
His feats (Cuban Missle Crisis) and defeats (Bay of Pigs) as President were many in a very short (nearly) three years. Again, oratory - Inagural, Ich Bin Ein Berliner, Civil Rights Address (initiating the 1964 Civil Rights Act which became LBJ's legacy), Man on the Moon - is SO important for Presidents.
Kennedy's assasination has haunted the United States ever since, prompting conspiracy therories and massive intrigue focused upon anyone sharing blood relations with the former President, including two brothers who ran for President and countless neices and nephews elected to lower offices.
There is so much more to go on about. PLEASE put this to a vote.

Posted by: timmerq | July 24, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

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