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What we know (and what we don't) about the politics of health care

Roughly 72 hours have passed since the House narrowly passed President Barack Obama's health care plan and it's been less than a day since he signed the legislation into law.

Despite brevity of that time frame, both parties are already claiming momentum (and victory) -- plucking a poll here or a poll there to prove their point.

With so much spin, it's worth taking a step back and examining what we know -- and what we don't -- about the past, present and future of health care politics.

Have suggestions of knowns and unknowns of the politics of health care? The comments section awaits.

WHAT WE KNOW

* Before passage, unpopularity: Polling conducted in the run-up to Sunday night's passage revealed a bill opposed by a majority of the American public. A CNN poll conducted over the weekend showed 39 percent supportive of the bill and 59 percent opposed. A Bloomberg poll in the field from last Friday through Monday (meaning that the sample had a single day of post-passage interviews) showed 38 percent supporting the bill and 50 percent opposing it.

* A rush of positive press: For all the process-oriented coverage of the last few months, the press attention to the bill since Sunday night has been almost universally positive. Obama's speech at the bill signing played on a loop on cable channels yesterday -- although Vice President Joe Biden's verbal gaffe did draw its fair share of attention too -- and the print/online coverage has been similarly laudatory, noting the historic nature of what Obama has accomplished.

* Republicans united, energized: The health care bill did what George W. Bush couldn't in the final four years of his presidency: unite and excite the Republican base. Starting with the raucous town halls of last summer and concluding with the loud protests outside the Capitol building over the weekend, it's clear that health care is, for many loyal Republicans, a symbol of everything they believe to be wrong with Obama's approach to governance. Passion and, yes, even anger, are potent in campaign politics as the party with the more fired-up supporters tends to reap the benefits at the ballot box.

WHAT WE DON'T KNOW

* A bump but how big (and how long)?: It seems a near-certainty that President Obama will get an approval ratings bump from the passage of the bill -- and the resultant positive press. In Gallup's latest three day rolling average, Obama is at 51 percent approval -- a one-point improvement from their last tracking poll. Obama has hovered between 49 percent and 52 percent in Gallup data last fall; if passage of the bill can get him out of that territory and back at or above 55 percent for a sustained period of time, House and Senate Democrats will begin to feel considerably better about their chances in this fall's midterm elections.

* Democratic base back?: One of the biggest problems for Obama and Democrats who sought office in 2009 and early 2010 (Creigh Deeds, Jon Corzine, Martha Coakley) was that the party's base was not terribly enthusiastic about what was going on in Washington. Following Obama's election -- and the expansion of Democratic majorities in the House and Senate -- there was an expectation within the base that a series of progressive proposals would quickly win passage. The bogging-down of health care over the past year effectively snuffed out much of that initial enthusiasm. But, senior party strategists insist that the final month (or so) of the health care fight was defined by a re-engagement of the party base -- a re-engagement that some within the party credit to Organizing for America -- that will have considerable implications for the 2010 midterms. One potential counterpoint to that theory can be found in the latest Gallup data. Roughly three in ten Democrats described themselves as "enthusiastic" that the bill had passed while 41 percent of Republicans said they were "angry" about passage, suggesting an intensity gap still exists -- at least for the moment.

* A run of retirements?: At the end of this week, the House and Senate will go on a two-week recess -- a time in which many Members of Congress currently undecided about whether to run again or not will make their final decision. (Filing deadlines have passed in only 16 states to date.) How many Democrats (if any) decide to call it quits over the next fortnight could well have a significant impact on the unfurling narrative of health care post-passage. If several Democrats in swing or GOP-leaning districts step aside, Republicans will almost certainly cast them as the first victims of the health care bill -- whether or not their decisions to depart have anything to do with the legislation. While Democrats have suffered a number of tough retirements -- particularly in Republican-friendly areas like Tennessee and Arkansas -- they have successfully avoided the sort of rapid-fire departures that could lead to a panic within their ranks. Can they keep that streak alive over the next two weeks?

*"Repeal and Replace"?: Republicans appear to have settled on the two-pronged message of repealing the just-passed bill and then passing legislation more in line with the sort of reforms they believe the system needs. While the idea of repeal is decidedly far-fetched from a logistical perspective, it remains to be seen the efficacy of this particular message in a post-passage world. While smart Republican strategists are trying to make sure that the message is nuanced enough to avoid their candidates being painted simply as the "party of no", not everyone is singing from that song book. Can Democrats turn Republicans' call for repeal into opposition to popular parts of the bill like coverage for pre-existing conditions?

By Chris Cillizza  |  March 24, 2010; 11:40 AM ET
Categories:  Health Care  
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Comments

Representative Paul Ryan, a rising star in the Republican Party has been attacking the recent health care reform bill is a deficit killer. He claims that the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) numbers mask greater costs therefore Obama’s pledge to only sign a deficit reducing bill was broken. Ryan, known to be a budget expert and fiscal hawk is clearly playing politics and I will debunk his entire argument while putting the numbers into perspective. The GOP has a habit of distorting the truth so with just a little digging it is easy to expose their tricks and knock down their house of cards.

We just debunked Rep. Paul Ryan and his distortions about the "doc fix". Read more at dropdeadpolitics.com

Posted by: dropdeadpolitics | March 25, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

I've suspected for some time that this correspondent is at least slightly biased toward the republican view.Here is the truth about all those polls. 41% are against reform . Another 13% are against it because their is no "public option." In my book that' s about 54% that are for some form of health care reform

Posted by: Opa2 | March 25, 2010 2:17 AM | Report abuse

Poor lonely Ped.

Posted by: Moonbat | March 25, 2010 1:42 AM | Report abuse

I don't recognize any first amendment right to call a congressman, or anyone else, a "niggger."

matter of fact I think the FBI should track down those teabaggers and charge them with malicious harassment, and out them in prison. Let them contract HIV and require colostomy bags from the experience.

The kid who got on the WalMart overhead speakers was arrested, why not the baggers? Enough.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 24, 2010 11:22 PM | Report abuse

I don't recognize any first amendment right to call a congressman, or anyone else, a "niggger."

matter of fact I think the FBI should reCk down those teabaggers and charge them with malicious harassment, and out them in prison. Let them contract HIV and require colostomy bags from the experience.

The kid who got on the WalMart overhead speakers was arrested, why not the baggers? Enough.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 24, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

I do not like this bill at all, it gives illegal immigrants free freakin health insurance. Thats preety much an open invatation to come to America. Sure I'm for the fact that everybody needs health insurance. This country is starting to go downhill and it is starting right here with this 938 Billion DOLLAR bill! Thats putting our country into WAY more debt. I'm only 17 years old and whenever I grow up I will be paying off this debt that Obama is racking up even more. My taxes are gonna be like 75% of what I earned out of my freakin pocket.

==

seventeen and you feel qualified to have such opinions? You're not.

Live some life, work for a decade or two, maybe bury a relative or two, get shafted by an insurance company, then you're entitled to an opinion.

Right now you're just an immature loudmouth.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 24, 2010 11:15 PM | Report abuse

Just to step away a bit from the name calling - here is an unbiased review of the health care reform impact: http://blog.consumerpla.net/2010/03/how-health-care-reform-will-affect-you.html

Posted by: KasualOberver | March 24, 2010 11:13 PM | Report abuse

What the hell is it with this 47th burnout, doing the exact same post dozens of times? What could possibly be the point of that?

And why is it allowed to go on? Zero content, the writing of a degenerate, hysterical and absurd.

And to think people have been banned here for calling out racism while this idiocy is allowed indefinitely.

The racist shouts have been on the news, even on Fox. Denying them is just blog clog.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 24, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse

codemanscoop18


You are almost right - what Obama wants to do is to give illegal aliens a chance to become legal - like by paying a fine of $1000.

THEN WHEN THEY ARE LEGAL, the aliens can get SUBSIDIES FOR THE HEALTH INSURANCE WORTH THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS A YEAR.

That is the plan.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 10:38 PM | Report abuse

I do not like this bill at all, it gives illegal immigrants free freakin health insurance. Thats preety much an open invatation to come to America. Sure I'm for the fact that everybody needs health insurance. This country is starting to go downhill and it is starting right here with this 938 Billion DOLLAR bill! Thats putting our country into WAY more debt. I'm only 17 years old and whenever I grow up I will be paying off this debt that Obama is racking up even more. My taxes are gonna be like 75% of what I earned out of my freakin pocket.

Posted by: codemanscoop18 | March 24, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

I do not like this bill at all, it gives illegal immigrants free freakin health insurance. Thats preety much an open invatation to come to America. Sure I'm for the fact that everybody needs health insurance. This country is starting tyo go downhill and it is starting right here with this 938 Billion DOLLAR bill! Thats putting our country into WAY more debt. I'm only 17 years old and whenever I grow up I will be paying off this debt that Obama is racking up even more. My taxes are gonna be like 75% of what I earned out of my freakin pocket.

Posted by: codemanscoop18 | March 24, 2010 9:22 PM | Report abuse


A CALL FOR THE RESIGNATION OF REP CLYBURN OF SOUTH CAROLINA


Rep. Clyburn went on CNN tonight and stated that he believed that the protests on Capitol Hill this weekend "were not about health care, but about RACE."


This is a COMPLETE DISGRACE TO THE COUNTRY.


For Rep. Clyburn - to basically disregard any legitimate opposition to the health care bill - and instead INSIST THAT EVERYONE AGAINST THE HEALTH CARE BILL ARE RACISTS.


The remarks of Rep. Clyburn tonight on CNN WERE EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE TO AMERICANS WHO EXERCISED THEIR LEGITIMATE RIGHT TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT.

Rep. Clyburn OFFENDED those who were exercising THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT FREEDOMS .

This is a disgrace to our country - a disgrace to our American system of government.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 9:19 PM | Report abuse

This is a disgrace to our country - a disgrace to our American system of government.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 9:07 PM


37, the American system of government is on a hiatus. It will be back on January 20, 2013, after obama leaves office.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 24, 2010 9:11 PM | Report abuse

A CALL FOR THE RESIGNATION OF REP CLYBURN OF SOUTH CAROLINA


Rep. Clyburn went on CNN tonight and stated that he believed that the protests on Capitol Hill this weekend "were not about health care, but about RACE."


This is a COMPLETE DISGRACE TO THE COUNTRY.


For Rep. Clyburn - to basically disregard any legitimate opposition to the health care bill - and instead INSIST THAT EVERYONE AGAINST THE HEALTH CARE BILL ARE RACISTS.


This is a disgrace to our country - a disgrace to our American system of government.

.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Rep. Clyburn went on CNN tonight and stated that he believed that the protests on Capitol Hill this weekend "were not about health care, but about RACE."

This is a COMPLETE DISGRACE TO THE COUNTRY

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 9:01 PM


37, did you mean Clyburn himself was a disgrace or what he said was a disgrace? I assume you meant Clyburn himself.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 24, 2010 9:05 PM | Report abuse


A CALL FOR THE RESIGNATION OF REP CLYBURN OF SOUTH CAROLINA


Rep. Clyburn went on CNN tonight and stated that he believed that the protests on Capitol Hill this weekend "were not about health care, but about RACE."


This is a COMPLETE DISGRACE TO THE COUNTRY.


For Rep. Clyburn - to basically disregard any legitimate opposition to the health care bill - and instead INSIST THAT EVERYONE AGAINST THE HEALTH CARE BILL ARE RACISTS.


This is a disgrace to our country - a disgrace to our American system of government.

.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

How are old you? Because your willful ignorance is kind of breath-taking. But hey, the back and forth was entertaining. Thanks!

Posted by: DinahS | March 24, 2010 8:55 PM


I'm in my twenties. Thanks for asking, and glad it was fun for you.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 24, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

SuzyCcup -

has Limbaugh moved to Costa Rica yet? I mean...with their universal healthcare and all?

Posted by: DinahS | March 24, 2010 8:52 PM

No. You still have time to hitch a ride with him. I heard he's driving. I'm sure he would be willing to drop you off anywhere along the way. Enjoy the ride!

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 24, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse


DinahS

OK so you understand - because it appears that you have not listened to anyone over the past year

1) the American People do not want the Federal Government to grow any more - with the addition of a Massive New Program

2) The American People do not want to pay ANY NEW TAXES


3) The costs of Obamacare are going to spiral out of control - the CBO score has several ACCOUNTING TRICKS - IT IS THE ENRON OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.

What is wrong with you?

We are in a recession - Obama's health care program is going to PLACE A MASSIVE DRAG ON HIRING - BECAUSE NOW IT IS MORE EXPENSIVE TO HIRE PEOPLE.

That last reason might be difficult for you to understand.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 8:56 PM | Report abuse

"so Obamacare is what you get. Don't like it? Move to Somalia. Free markets prevail there. Posted by: Noacoler"

That, and Somalia's gun laws are something only the NRA could love.

Posted by: ceflynline | March 24, 2010 8:56 PM | Report abuse

SuzyCcup -

It's amazing. Once again, not even ONE articulate reason why you are against the bill. But I should put down my "Communist Manifesto"?

Are you serious? How are old you? Because your willful ignorance is kind of breath-taking. But hey, the back and forth was entertaining. Thanks!

Posted by: DinahS | March 24, 2010 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Pretty ugly comments, Suzy. I like to think of you as a happy warrior.

On a slightly unrelated topic, Rush was priceless today. In one breath condemning the Supreme Court for not ruling Social Security unconstitutional and then citing that ruling as precedent for why HCR is unconstitutional. I think Rush is off (or is it on) his meds.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 24, 2010 8:54 PM | Report abuse

SuzyCcup -

Actually, I'm not interested in denouncing my citizenship. I live in one of the greatest countries in the world.

And now, my country has decided to provide healthcare to millions who can't afford. I'm all smiles actually. :) But thanks for the suggestion...I suppose I'll keep that in mind. And hey - SuzyCcup - has Limbaugh moved to Costa Rica yet? I mean...with their universal healthcare and all?

Posted by: DinahS | March 24, 2010 8:52 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for your response, albeit not a substantive one. I just requested that someone articulate three reasons they are against the bill.

Posted by: DinahS | March 24, 2010 8:39 PM

Put down your communist manifesto for a few minutes and you'll find at least ten yourself. Give it a try.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 24, 2010 8:49 PM | Report abuse

SuzyCcup -

No, I am not an illegal, but thanks for your concern.

Posted by: DinahS | March 24, 2010 8:43 PM

Well, you can always denounce your citizenship and move to Mexico. You'd fit in perfectly.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 24, 2010 8:46 PM | Report abuse

SuzyCcup -

No, I am not an illegal, but thanks for your concern. Actually, I was born here right in the wonderful US of A.

Furthermore, xenophobia does nothing to further your cause. But it does indeed make you look like a ignorant prick. But hey, maybe that's what you were going for! :)

Posted by: DinahS | March 24, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse

37thand0street -

Thanks for your response, albeit not a substantive one. I just requested that someone articulate three reasons they are against the bill.

Typing the "American people do not want..." in all caps is not a substantive reason. Because quite frankly, I'm an American person and I am all for this reform. So once again, if you can articulate specific reasons you have issues with this bill, I'm all ears. Otherwise, please, spare the me the all-caps. It's not convincing nor necessary.

Posted by: DinahS | March 24, 2010 8:39 PM | Report abuse

The opposition to this bill is ridiculous. I mean, how exactly is expanding healthcare and reforming the insurance industry something that is not for the good of the people?

Posted by: DinahS | March 24, 2010 8:05 PM


You're an illegal, right? Thought so.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 24, 2010 8:39 PM | Report abuse

"Obama Excludes Private and Catholic School Children From Easter Egg Roll Ticket Giveaway"

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/63267


obama must have invited Stupak.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 24, 2010 8:35 PM | Report abuse

A CALL FOR THE RESIGNATION OF REP CLYBURN OF SOUTH CAROLINA

Rep. Clyburn went on CNN tonight and stated that he believed that the protests on Capitol Hill this weekend "were not about health care, but about RACE."

This is a COMPLETE DISGRACE TO THE COUNTRY.

For Rep. Clyburn - to basically disregard any legitimate opposition to the health care bill - and instead INSIST THAT EVERYONE AGAINST THE HEALTH CARE BILL ARE RACISTS.

This is a disgrace to our country - a disgrace to our American system of government.

.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 8:33 PM | Report abuse

If nothing else, the health care bill has boosted Jimmy Carter's reputation.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_C5VMt0Sqis0/S6qNkniewcI/AAAAAAAADhA/WDea38pCgnc/s1600/Jimmy+Carter+Miss+Me+Billboard.jpg

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 24, 2010 8:32 PM | Report abuse

DinahS


Have you been under a rock for the past year?


THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT ANOTHER MASSIVE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM


THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT ANY MORE TAXES - THESE TAXES ARE MASSIVE.

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT A NEW GOVERNMENT PROGRAM WITH UNCERTAIN COSTS - WHICH ARE CERTAIN TO SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL IN THE FUTURE

LOOK AT THE STATES' BUDGETS - THEY CAN NOT AFFORD THE NEW COSTS OBAMA IS IMPOSING ON THEM.


THE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT NEW TAXES

HOW HARD IS THIS FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND ???

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 8:27 PM | Report abuse

The opposition to this bill is ridiculous. I mean, how exactly is expanding healthcare and reforming the insurance industry something that is not for the good of the people?

Furthermore, for all the raucous, violent threats and acts carried out, racial and homophobic epithets thrown around, I wish ONE republican could actually outline 5 reasons they are against healthcare reform. Heck, give me three. And please, spare us all the BS of rationing, death panels, deficits, etc.

Because...
1. If you are truly worried about the rationing of healthcare, what is it that insurance companies do when they deny those with pre-existing conditions, raise rates by double-digits making it practically unaffordable for millions and placing caps on policies of those who need it the most? If that's not rationing, I don't know what is.
2. Death panels? Really? I mean, I can't even address that foolishness, because it's down right stupid, ignorant and pathetic.
3. Where was all this fiscal conservatism when GWB effectively had us fighting two wars and decided to provide tax cuts to the wealthiest of Americans? I mean, is that what fiscal conservatism looks like these days? Furthermore, the CBO verified that the bill would cut the deficit by over $1T over 10 years and increase the rolls of insured by at least 30M.

So yeah, please list 3 (SUBSTANTIVE) reasons you are against HCR and then I could take you seriously.

Posted by: DinahS | March 24, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

Well, first I don't believe anything this administration says (Check out some internet sites under Obama's lies).

And I'm not talking about income tax, a vat is a sales tax, that imposes a greater burden upon the poor.

As an example, taxing alcohol or tobacco, everyone pays the same tax, thus the rich pay a lower percentage of their income and the poor pay a higher percentage of their income, thats what makes it regressive.

Also, these products are often consumed more by the poor.

Just be aware when then powers that be start talking about this. Again, there is no way Obama would do this before Nov.

Posted by: jhayne5 | March 24, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse

SS and Medicare is WHAT WE PAID FOR ALL THE YEARS WE WORKED AND PAID TAX TO THE GOVT. FOR and OBAMA AND HIS ADMINISTRATION HAVE NO RIGHT TO PRESENT SS AND MEDICARE AS THEIR CHARITY TO THE AMERICANS.

WE WORKED HARD, DEFENDED OUR COUNTRY AND NOW THIS BIG MOUTH WANTS TO PENALIZE US BY TRYING TO CONVINCE THE YOUNG AND IGNORANTS UNTRUTHS! WHEN DID OBAMA EVER DEFEND THIS COUNTRY? IT STILL IS NOT PROVEN HE IS A NATURAL BORN AMERICAN! REFUSES TO SHOW US THE TRUTH.WHAT OBAMA IS
tAKING AWAY WHAT BELONGS TO AMERICANS IS A CRIME AGAINST THE PEOPLE OF A FREE COUNTRY. HOW DARE HE SAY PEOPLE WILL BE PENALIZED IF THEY DO NOT BUY HEALTH INSURANCE! CHILDREN SHOULD BE FULLY COVERED FROM DAY ONE! WHO IS THIS NEW "HITLER" AMOUNG US?

Posted by: LOONYBIN2000 | March 24, 2010 7:57 PM | Report abuse

Dear thingsthatshine,

You ask where the "leaders" of the Tea Party are.

Although I am not a member, I'm a conservative independent, I understand that the whole point of this "party" is that it is a grass roots movement without "leaders". There are thousands of Tea Party groups all with different aims, some may be prepared for violence.

The only thing they have in common is that they were a part of the silent majority until they couldn't stay silent anymore (I would guess ACORN like liberal movements, MoveOn's "General Betray US" and far left Liberals pushed them off their couches and into the streets.

They are average Americans, from what I have read. People who care about American traditions, the Constitution (especially the Declaration of Independence that so elequantly warms against government imposition and centralized power) and are much more likely to be or have family members with the sacrifice mentality to join the military and even die for the liberals who do nothing but demean and ridicule them.

I'm not one of them, I still believe in the system - but I can understand their frustration when they hear the President attack the police without even knowing the facts (based on racial prejudice) or give happy shout-outs before finally addressing the death of American soldiers in a terrorist attack - for instance.

Posted by: sally62 | March 24, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse

jhaynes:

From the WSJ:
White House officials reported earlier this week that it appears that the average federal income tax refund has increased by 10% this year. The average federal income tax refund for 2009 is $3,036, according to early data from the Internal Revenue Service. Last year, refunds averaged about $2,770.

Posted by: thingsthatshine | March 24, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

What the dimocrats don't know is that a VAT (Value Added Tax) is coming our way after Nov elections thanks to the incompetent socialist in the White House.

We'll see how much you guys love him then as this is a regressive tax, which means it hurts the poor the most!

I will await patiently to ask you all at that time, 'Hey, hows that hope and change we can believe in working out for ya now?'

Posted by: jhayne5 | March 24, 2010 7:41 PM | Report abuse

Terrorfied


There is no logic or reason to your posting at 7:04


It is even historically inaccurate.


You are wrong.

Case closed.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse


Terrorfied


I have a right to be a part of any party I want - free of mis-labeling.

Your pal, Rep. Clyburn just went on CNN tonight - and practiced HATE SPEECH.


Your logic appears to be this: let's take a small group of people, and project their actions on a much larger group.

By that logic, it is fair to go to any Courthouse in American - and start to label ALL BLACKS AS CRIMINALS based on the blacks who are on trial as criminals.


YOUR ATTITUDE IS A COMPLETE DISGRACE TO THIS COUNTRY.

You are personally making a FRAUD out of any mention of a post-racial America.


You should be ashamed - Obama should be ashamed too - instead he and his people are probably BEHIND THIS ROUND OF FALSE CHARGES.

NOTHING NEW FOR OBAMA, AS WE HAVE POINTED OUT TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

DEMOCRATIC PARTY = FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 7:31 PM | Report abuse

I'm sick and tired of hearing from liberals/Democrats/whoever that we Republicans do not want healthcare. We do want healthcare - just not Obamacare. That bill was bogus, just as the healthcare was bogus, and all it's going to do is increase the bureaucracy and not save Grannie!!! Wake up, Hypocrats! You're not going to turn this country into a Socialist Dictatorship! Hey, you! Yes, you! The one who is just about to comment on this. DON'T BOTHER!!!

==

screw you, responding anyway.

You guys had your shot. Not only did you have it for the past year, you had it for the past three decades. NOTHING. And during the HCR debates of the last year not a single token gesture of interest in taking part, just lies, bluster, idiot talk about markets, and "start over."

so Obamacare is what you get. Don't like it? Move to Somalia. Free markets prevail there.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 24, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Dingle couldn't have revealed the true purpose behind this bill better and I quote him "...this has been going on for a long time. It takes time to creat legislation and administration needed to CONTROL the people"...Look it up.

Posted by: NO-bama | March 24, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

This article forgot to mention a couple of important pieces of info. 1) Obama, Ried, Pelosi and all the Democrats thinks this bill is crap. Afterall, they wrote an exclusion clause into the bill. This clause excludes them from participating in the plan. If the plan was so great, as Obama, Reid and Pelosi spewed for so long, why would they exclude themselves from such greatness?
2) Obama, Pelosi and Reid propped up a few people with chronic illinesses claiming "they need healthcare now!"...if they needed care so urgently, why did the Democrats decide to implement the benefits to those in need THREE YEARS FROM NOW? Could it be that the plan doesn't take effect until AFTER the next presidential election for a reason? Do you think they know this experimental bill is a POS?
Dingle couldn't have revealed the true purpose behind this bill better and I quote him "...this has been going on for a long time. It takes time to creat legislation and administration needed to CONTROL the people"...Look it up.

Posted by: NO-bama | March 24, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

37th Street wrote:
"this is a massive effort to paint the Tea Party movement"

So Democratic representatives have their office windows smashed, receive death threats and their families' homes are vandalized, and the Tea Party is the victim here? Tea Party members say that Democrats should be put on the firing line and scream racial slurs at black congressmen, and the Tea Party is the victim?

I heard Rep Boehner saying that this behavior is unacceptable; I heard Sen Graham say that this is un-American. Where are the leaders of the Tea Party movement and their call for civil behavior? Are they choosing to distance themselves from the craziest and most tastelest elements of the movement? No. Palin tells followers to 'Reload' and puts pictures of Democrats in crosshairs. Glenn Beck criticizes Democratic leadership for joining arms with John Lewis.

But you're the real victim, aren't you? Not people who were threatened or menaced or put up as target practice, but you who marched in step with these sad dangerous people, went to the same rallies, used the same slogans and talking points, and somehow (somehow!) find yourself associated with them.

In conclusion, boo-effing-hoo.

Posted by: thingsthatshine | March 24, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

I love the smell of troll heads exploding in the morning.

Smells like ... victory.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 24, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

37thandOstreet, if you have a problem with people mis-labeling you, there is a simple solution to that: Don't affiliate with a historically racist party. Were alive in the 60's? Were you Republican then? If you answered "yes" to question 1, then you know d_a_m_n well why people think the GOP is racist. Because THEY WERE. And now the GOP recycles the same arguements they used in the 60's to oppose inter-racial marriage to oppose gay rights. Maybe race wouldn't have such a forum if you didn't cry about it so much. Do you honestly think no one can read between the lines when you say things like "Obama's a muslim", "Obama's a Kenyan", "Barack HUSSEIN Obama", etc? You're only fooling yourself.

And you know what else? During the 2008 election I would smoke cigarettes with a girl from Georgia (we nick-named her "CrazyEyes"), who had a husband in Iraq who married her in a WalMart shopping center. Self-identified Republican. One day she was upset about the election. I asked why, and she said because Obama was leading in the polls. I asked what's so bad about that. She responded (direct quote): "I'll be damned if I have a n**ger running my country!".

So there ya go 37thandOstreet. Blame CrazyEyes, and people like her. They are the reason you are being called racist. That, and the history of the past century.

Posted by: Terrorfied | March 24, 2010 7:04 PM | Report abuse

37thandOstreet, if you have a problem with people mis-labeling you, there is a simple solution to that: Don't affiliate with a historically racist party. Were alive in the 60's? Were you Republican then? If you answered "yes" to question 1, then you know d_a_m_n well why people think the GOP is racist. Because THEY WERE. And now the GOP recycles the same arguements they used in the 60's to oppose inter-racial marriage to oppose gay rights. Maybe race wouldn't have such a forum if you didn't cry about it so much. Do you honestly think no one can read between the lines when you say things like "Obama's a muslim", "Obama's a Kenyan", "Barack HUSSEIN Obama", etc? You're only fooling yourself.

And you know what else? During the 2008 election I would smoke cigarettes with a girl from Georgia (we nick-named her "CrazyEyes"), who had a husband in Iraq who married her in a WalMart shopping center. Self-identified Republican. One day she was upset about the election. I asked why, and she said because Obama was leading in the polls. I asked what's so bad about that. She responded (direct quote): "I'll be damned if I have a n**ger running my country!".

So there ya go 37thandOstreet. Blame CrazyEyes, and people like her. They are the reason you are being called racist. That, and the history of the past century.

Posted by: Terrorfied | March 24, 2010 7:04 PM | Report abuse

Leapin:

Here's something more nourishing than potato chips:

"Research showing that having health insurance positively affects the use of health services is clear and widely accepted—and the case has also been made that having health insurance leads to improved health and longer lives by means of better access to medical care.
• A conservative estimate based on the full range of studies is that a reduction in mortality of 5-15% could be expected if the uninsured were to gain continuous health coverage.
• It has been estimated that the number of excess deaths among uninsured adults age 25-64 is in the range of 18,000 a year.
• The annual economic value of foregone health among the 40 million uninsured in 2000 has been estimated to be between $65 and $130 billion in that year.3 If the middle of that range ($97.5 billion) is inflated to 2004 dollars, the annual economic value of the foregonehealth of those 40 million uninsured increases to $103 billion.
(Source: Kaiser Family Foundation study written in 2004).
This in response to your comment on my post as per below:


Add in other economies (no need for expensive collection agencies, early cheaper intervention reduces expensive emergency care, healthier workforce means higher productivity) and it's no stretch to think that this bill will save us money.
Posted by: archaeoman
-----------------------------------------
Well actually it is a stretch.
Posted by: Leapin

Posted by: archaeoman | March 24, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

I'm sick and tired of hearing from liberals/Democrats/whoever that we Republicans do not want healthcare. We do want healthcare - just not Obamacare. That bill was bogus, just as the healthcare was bogus, and all it's going to do is increase the bureaucracy and not save Grannie!!! Wake up, Hypocrats! You're not going to turn this country into a Socialist Dictatorship! Hey, you! Yes, you! The one who is just about to comment on this. DON'T BOTHER!!!

Posted by: georges2 | March 24, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

"Republicans appear to have settled on the two-pronged message of repealing the just-passed bill and then passing legislation more in line with the sort of reforms they believe the system needs."
------------------------
Passing legislation more in line with the sort of reforms they believe the system need.(Read: No reforms needed.)

It's funny. Today I was laughing with a co-worker at a Fox News poll that said 95% of Americans are upset that the reform passed, 5% approved, and 0% were undecided (I was laughing at 0% undecided). A correctional officer walked into our office and said something along the lines of "I'm not surprised, I don't know ANYONE who is in favor of it." I informed him that he had stepped into the liberal bastion of the jail, and that we were in favor of it. He immediately went into some diatribe about how he doesn't mind liberals, but he can't stand socialists (which he indicated no one would ever admit to). I essentially told him that A) I'm liberal, B) I don't think socialism works, and C)I don't agree with forced insurance purchaces either, as people should be able to go off and die in the woods if that's what they want.

Then, after a brief discussion in which I explained that while I disagree with government mandates of the kind in the bill, I also don't like increased medical expenses due to the a-hole who shows up at the ER for something that could have been inexpensive to treat in the months prior. He tried to bait me with some kind of abortion statement, but I dismissed it. You see, I realize that people have their established views. I won't change this guard's mind or any mind on this comment board about nearly any issue. But I will (and did) say this:

In a world of heightened sensitivities, where rhetoric is king, sometimes we need to look each other in the eye and acknowledge that none of us here are contributing because we want ensure our own demise. We are all motivated to try to make our world a better place. When we recognize this fact, we are a great and powerful nation. We are thoughtful and coherent in our governing, and it bores the bejesus out of the talking heads. When we're not, we are reduced to mobs of longhaired flag burning anarchists and gun-toting evangelical domestic terrorists. But it makes for great news.

Right now, we're in the business of making great news.

Posted by: Terrorfied | March 24, 2010 6:51 PM | Report abuse

Here is something I didn't know - and neither did Obama apparently:

Hours after President Barack Obama signed historic health care legislation, a potential problem emerged. Administration officials are now scrambling to fix a gap in highly touted benefits for children.

Obama made better coverage for children a centerpiece of his health care remake, but it turns out the letter of the law provided a less-than-complete guarantee that kids with health problems would not be shut out of coverage.

Under the new law, insurance companies still would be able to refuse new coverage to children because of a pre-existing medical problem. Full protection for children would not come until 2014, said Kate Cyrul, a spokeswoman for the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, another panel that authored the legislation.

Obama's public statements have conveyed the impression that the new protections for kids were more sweeping and straightforward.

"This is a patient's bill of rights on steroids," the president said Friday at George Mason University in Virginia. "Starting this year, thousands of uninsured Americans with pre-existing conditions will be able to purchase health insurance, some for the very first time. Starting this year, insurance companies will be banned forever from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions."

And Saturday, addressing House Democrats as they approached a make-or-break vote on the bill, Obama said, "This year ... parents who are worried about getting coverage for their children with pre-existing conditions now are assured that insurance companies have to give them coverage -- this year."

Late Tuesday, the administration said Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius would try to resolve the situation by issuing new regulations. The Obama administration interprets the law to mean that kids can't be denied coverage, as the president has said repeatedly.

What else are we going to find out as this enormous pile of poo is disected?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Gap-in-health-care-laws-apf-4272209396.html?x=0&.v=1

Posted by: snowy2 | March 24, 2010 6:50 PM | Report abuse

We don't have one racial slur from the weekend on tape - with hundreds of microphones and cameras all over Capitol Hill.

However, we do have Rep Clyburn today telling CNN that the protests were "NOT about health care but about race."

This is a disgrace.

AND we have the media buying into this FALSE STORYLINE - MSNBC HAS IT ON 24 HOURS A DAY.

THIS IS A DISGRACE.


OBAMA IS A FRAUD - THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT HIS HEALTH CARE PROGRAM -

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT A MASSIVE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT OBAMA'S MASSIVE TAXES.

That is the source of the problem.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 6:46 PM | Report abuse


Rep. Clyburn of South Carolina JUST DID IT AGAIN - HE CALLED THE PROTESTORS RACISTS.


He said the protests at the Capitol where not about health care, but about race.


THIS STATEMENT IS A DISGRACE. OBAMA WAS ELECTED BECAUSE HE WAS PROMISING A POST-RACIAL ATTITUDE. THIS IS NOT POST-RACIAL.


The democrats are PRACTICING HATE SPEECH.


WHAT REP. CLYBURN JUST SAID ON CNN WAS HATE SPEECH - AND HATE SPEECH WITH NO BASIS IN FACT.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 6:28 PM | Report abuse

I'm in the Democratic bank and will tell you that I am energized. Yes, the bill is not perfect but perfect is not necessary. This bill does a lot of good things -- helping to insure, dealing with inequity of the tax code, addressing the need for kids to have health care, etc. -- that should not be minimized.

My view is that Democrats pick up seats. But, we'll see how things go with immigration.

Posted by: teoandchive | March 24, 2010 6:28 PM | Report abuse

What if there was a national political party which went down to the Courthouse - and tried to characterize all blacks as criminals based on the actions of the few blacks on trial for crimes?


This is what Obama and the democrats are doing -


Obama and the democrats are trying to characterize everyone in the Tea Party Movement as racist based on the alleged actions of a few.

This is disgraceful - and the media is participating.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

YES WE DID!

Posted by: ravenshroud | March 24, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

The argument that people wouldn't have voted for health-care reform doesn't hold water. There's no way to tell. On the other hand, a better argument might be made that even less popular with voters was the taxpayer bailouts amounting to hundreds of billions of dollars for hundreds of corporations where execs still take home $1 million annually including salary and stock options. Why don't Republicans try and get some of the corporate welfare money back? President Bush initiated the first big bailout of $700 billion for Wall Street. Where were Republicans who profess to be concerned with the deficit then? Sterling Greenwood/AspenFreePress

Posted by: AspenFreePress | March 24, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse


Obama IS IMPOSING ON THE COUNTRY a MASSIVE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM AND MASSIVE TAXES WHICH THE COUNTRY DOES NOT WANT.

Then Obama and democrats fake that they don't know why people are angry.


Obama is HAPPY TO MAKE YOU ANGRY.

Obama practiced a GREAT DEAL OF DECEPTION to get to this point -

Obama went around the country for years PROMISING TO BE BIPARTISAN - WHICH MEANT HE WOULD PURSUE CENTRIST POLICIES THAT BOTH PARTIES AGREED ON.

THIS WAS A FRAUD.

Yet he appears to not know why you are angry.


IT APPEARS THE OFFICIAL LINE OF THE DEMOCRATS IS THE OPPOSITION TO THE HEALTH CARE PLAN ARE ALL A BUNCH OF RACISTS.

AND they will imply that your policy disagreements are really masked racism.


And Obama smiles - he is happy to make you angry.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 6:14 PM | Report abuse

ceflynline:
"You better bet that a working stiff who has 45 years paying into Social Security is ENTITLED to hes pension. He paid for it by loaning the U. S. his ENTIRE SS taxes, (plus his employers share payments). SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and now Health care are entitlements? DAMN STRAIGHT!"


Seeing if I can find some common ground here with a liberal. I absolutely agree that folks who have worked their entire life contributing to SS and Medicare should not have the valve turned off just as they turn the age to collect.

Conversely, would you agree with me that young people should be allowed to opt out of SS and Medicare, if they believe they are intellectually adept enough to spend less than they earn, and save for their own living and health care expenses in retirement?

I would be thrilled if the pro-choice party really were...'pro' me making my own choices, I mean.

Posted by: dbw1 | March 24, 2010 6:11 PM | Report abuse

The one most agregious instance of hate violence was by SEIU members on a tea party victim.

not a peep about it from the dinosaur media.

Posted by: Zouk_is_King | March 24, 2010 6:11 PM | Report abuse


Obama IS IMPOSING ON THE COUNTRY a MASSIVE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM AND MASSIVE TAXES WHICH THE COUNTRY DOES NOT WANT.

Then Obama and democrats fake that they don't know why people are angry.


Obama is HAPPY TO MAKE YOU ANGRY.

Obama practiced a GREAT DEAL OF DECEPTION to get to this point -

Obama went around the country for years PROMISING TO BE BIPARTISAN - WHICH MEANT HE WOULD PURSUE CENTRIST POLICIES THAT BOTH PARTIES AGREED ON.

THIS WAS A FRAUD.

Yet he appears to not know why you are angry.


IT APPEARS THE OFFICIAL LINE OF THE DEMOCRATS IS THE OPPOSITION TO THE HEALTH CARE PLAN ARE ALL A BUNCH OF RACISTS.

AND they will imply that your policy disagreements are really masked racism.


And Obama smiles - he is happy to make you angry.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 6:10 PM | Report abuse

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/24/senate-republicans-block-hearings/

This is the article shrink quoted about the Rs hanging up 3 commanders who flew in to testify.

According to the article, the parties have done this to each other over the years. That does not excuse the R behavior. It only says our elected representatives are all less than who we expect them to be. I think it is up to the public to tell the Rs to let the committee work continue. It will be the same story next time Ds do it. I never knew they were [all] this childish. I am a naive 66 year old lawyer, I guess.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 24, 2010 6:08 PM | Report abuse

To add to my post if Stack's manifesto was ranting about Obama, islam, health care reform and unions we would still be getting front page coverage about how conservatives are encouraging violence and the liberals would be "concerned" and passing legislation.

Because Stack was a nutty leftist there is nothing to see here and it took 3 days before you couldn't find a single article.

And the problem is Fox News? LOL.

Posted by: Cryos | March 24, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse

leapin

Thank you for reading my post.

It is upsetting - this is a massive effort to paint the Tea Party movement.

What if someone went to the courthouse - and tried to paint all blacks as criminals based on the actions of a few who are on trial at the courthouse ???

SERIOUSLY, THIS IS WHAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS UP TO TODAY.

And there with hundreds of cameras and microphones on Capitol Hill, NOT ONE CAUGHT A RACIAL SLUR - but the democrats are sooooo offended.


OH yea, sounds manufactured to me.

Sounds like Obama in summer of 2008 saying that the Republicans weren't racist yet, but THEY WERE GOING TO BE.

THIS STORY IS BEING PLAYED TOO MUCH.

And this stunt seems to have been pulled before they had the deal with Stupak - so maybe they pulled it when they thought they might lose the vote last weekend.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 5:50 PM
===================
Yep right on this was exactly it. The prospects were hard to determine so liberals and the media resorted to their usual slander.

Imagine if the media posted similar unsubstantiated claims against liberals as they do conservatives and then never retracted them. The moonbats would freak out for years.

The slander and lies are disgusting. Look at Stack the liberal plane bomber.
- On Saturday the media tries pinning him as a tea party member.
- On Sunday after his liberal manifesto ranting about Bush, the Catholic Church, health care and corporations is out suddenly the stories stop.
- By Monday there is one story about an interview with his daughter and by Tuesday it is gone.

Posted by: Cryos | March 24, 2010 6:01 PM | Report abuse

leapin

Thank you for reading my post.

It is upsetting - this is a massive effort to paint the Tea Party movement.

What if someone went to the courthouse - and tried to paint all blacks as criminals based on the actions of a few who are on trial at the courthouse ???

SERIOUSLY, THIS IS WHAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS UP TO TODAY.

And there with hundreds of cameras and microphones on Capitol Hill, NOT ONE CAUGHT A RACIAL SLUR - but the democrats are sooooo offended.


OH yea, sounds manufactured to me.

Sounds like Obama in summer of 2008 saying that the Republicans weren't racist yet, but THEY WERE GOING TO BE.

THIS STORY IS BEING PLAYED TOO MUCH.

And this stunt seems to have been pulled before they had the deal with Stupak - so maybe they pulled it when they thought they might lose the vote last weekend.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Time and again we see both sides of this yelling and screaming slurs and the like. This should be a civil debate as both sides have good points. The problem here is that it has come to a point where neither side will listen to the other. Just think how good this bill could have been if it had been focused on solving problems instead of drawing solid party lines.

Posted by: jblow50 | March 24, 2010 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Add in other economies (no need for expensive collection agencies, early cheaper intervention reduces expensive emergency care, healthier workforce means higher productivity) and it's no stretch to think that this bill will save us money.
Posted by: archaeoman
-----------------------------------------
Well actually it is a stretch. There wouldn’t be a need for ever increasing taxes every year if government had good ideas that led to efficiency and lower costs of operation. When is the last time you saw a liberal put down a bag of potato chips? But the government could create a gigantic bureau of snitches (think Obama type job creation) to report potato chip offenders.

Posted by: leapin | March 24, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse


37thand0street say "THE DEMOCRATS PRACTICE HATE SPEECH AGAINST THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT."
The tea party movement is the movement of hate. Did you not see the group at the Capitol yelling racial slurs at Rep. Lewis? Further, it was the GOP Congressmen yelling 'LIAR" and "BABY KILLER" on the floor of the House.
The GOP, by embracing the teabaggers, has sunk to the lowest level of political discourse in over 100 years.
Posted by: bgjd1979
------------------------------------------
The Dbaggers and the free lunch party hate the tea party. This is manifested by their insistence to characterize a whole group by the reported actions of a few. Basically the Dbaggers hate anyone who disagrees with them again demonstrating an intolerance for diversity of ideas.

Posted by: leapin | March 24, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

With all the acrimony about how much this bill will or will not cost, remember one thing: the 32 million who will now get insurance were not magically free of medical costs before this bill. In 2004 the *unpaid* portion of medical care for the uninsured was 40.7 billion dollars. That's just the care; it doesn't include all the other costs (financial and otherwise - no one takes bankruptcy easily...).
The 32 million who now get insurance won't get it for nothing. They'll have to contribute. If they pay an average of only $100 per month, that's 40 billion per year in revenues. Along with the unpaid 40 billion we have to contend with before this bill, that gives us 80 billion per year of the 90 billion that this bill will cost. Add in other economies (no need for expensive collection agencies, early cheaper intervention reduces expensive emergency care, healthier workforce means higher productivity) and it's no stretch to think that this bill will save us money.

Posted by: archaeoman | March 24, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

By the way. This Republican bit of invective, "entitlements"?

You better bet that a working stiff who has 45 years paying into Social Security is ENTITLED to hes pension. He paid for it by loaning the U. S. his ENTIRE SS taxes, (plus his employers share payments). Note that much of that money went to help Saint Ronnie and his acolyte, the blessed GHWB and little shrub hide the monster deficits they were running.

SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and now Health care are entitlements?

DAMN STRAIGHT!

Posted by: ceflynline | March 24, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

ModerateVoter:

I think you are missing the point... with out the pharmaceutical companies spending all that money to find new cures... all the medical breakthroughs in medicine will be a thing of the past.

You have to look at the big picture, not just YEAH free health care... it's called critical thinking. try it.

Posted by: chof | March 24, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Let me get this straight. More people will be on insurance getting their meds to prevent heart attacks and what not and you are worried about the pharmaceutical companies. Please....

Posted by: ModerateVoter
I don't think taxslave is worried about drug companies, I think taxslave's concern is technological innovation which largely comes from the US and not the countries with socialized HC.

Posted by: leapin | March 24, 2010 5:20 PM | Report abuse

"I'm a registered Democrat, .... Posted by: ohioan"

I know any number of "registered Democrats" who have never voted fora democrat in their lives. They keep their D registration because it lets them vote in D primaries, and they would rather be able to mess with a D primary than vote in a meaningless R primary, where they always get the guy the Party wants anyway.

Tell me you voted Obama, in 2008 and Strickland, and Sherrod Brown, mebbe I buy your bona fides. Tell me you voted Humphrey, McGovern, Carter, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry to go with them I MIGHT accept your claims. (I didn't vote McGovern, but picked a third party, but it wasn't his Democratic platform I disliked, it was his rigged nomination)

Posted by: ceflynline | March 24, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

37thand0street say "THE DEMOCRATS PRACTICE HATE SPEECH AGAINST THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT."

The tea party movement is the movement of hate. Did you not see the group at the Capitol yelling racial slurs at Rep. Lewis? Further, it was the GOP Congressmen yelling 'LIAR" and "BABY KILLER" on the floor of the House.

The GOP, by embracing the teabaggers, has sunk to the lowest level of political discourse in over 100 years.

Posted by: bgjd1979 | March 24, 2010 5:16 PM | Report abuse

Anybody care to guess at how many lives will be lost in the future due to the lack of technical innovation that is inherent to socialized medicine? Single pharmaceutical companies in the US spend more on medical R&D than all of Canada. That will not be the case much longer. Thanks guys!

Posted by: taxslave | March 24, 2010 5:02 PM

Let me get this straight. More people will be on insurance getting their meds to prevent heart attacks and what not and you are worried about the pharmaceutical companies. Please....

Posted by: ModerateVoter | March 24, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

So the GOP wants to make "Repeal and Repalce" their campaign battle cry. Wonderful, after 15 months of nasty infighting over health care, Repubs promise two more years of the same. Wow, I'm sue voters will be excited about that prospect.

Posted by: bgjd1979 | March 24, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse


WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS AN ORGANIZED ATTEMPT TO SMEAR AN ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE BASED ON THE ALLEGED, AND UNPROVEN, ACTIONS OF A FEW.


This is what Obama is all about.


Obama : it is not about the color of your skin, it is about the content of your character - which you are sorely lacking.

If you get elected on promises of Bipartisanship, which is difficult, you should make all sorts of efforts to DELIVER WHAT YOU HAVE PROMISED.

You don't give some lame excuse, blame the other side, and see a green light for A FAR-LEFT WING AGENDA.


That is Obama's problem - and that is why people are angry.


The democrats instead of recognizing reality, prefer to engage in sexual slurs and HATE SPEECH.

THE DEMOCRATS PRACTICE HATE SPEECH AGAINST THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

THE ENTITLEMENT GENERATION: We are witnessing a shift in the thinking of Americans as the transfer of authority passes from one generation to the next. It is this shift to an “entitlement” attitude that will ultimately destroy this great country and the freedoms it represents. Already gone is the work ethic the older generation grew up with. Since the birth of this county, it has always been understood that to succeed and live the American dream, one had to work hard. The current generations expect to get all the perks and pay of the older generation, despite not having been around long enough to earn it. They also want to do as little as possible, and to be able to take off any time they want, without concern for any effect it may have on their fellow workers. This bill is yet another nail in the coffin of American freedoms and a huge step toward the socialist society many younger Americans now crave. They fail to recognize that these government services come with a huge price tag. They only see it as taxing the wealthy and are all for it since that does not currently appear to directly affect them. The real price to be paid will not be recognized until it is too late. That real price to be paid is the freedom that this country was founded on. The fact that the government can force you to purchase something just because you exist, is not only unconstitutional, it destroys the very foundation on which this country was created. If George Washington were alive today, he would most certainly be appalled.

Posted by: jblow50 | March 24, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Another reader of right wing comic books who thinks he has what it takes to be a blogger.

Yawn.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 24, 2010 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Anybody care to guess at how many lives will be lost in the future due to the lack of technical innovation that is inherent to socialized medicine? Single pharmaceutical companies in the US spend more on medical R&D than all of Canada. That will not be the case much longer. Thanks guys!

Posted by: taxslave | March 24, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS AN ORGANIZED ATTEMPT TO SMEAR AN ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE BASED ON THE ALLEGED, AND UNPROVEN, ACTIONS OF A FEW.


This is what Obama is all about.


Obama : it is not about the color of your skin, it is about the content of your character - which you are sorely lacking.

If you get elected on promises of Bipartisanship, which is difficult, you should make all sorts of efforts to DELIVER WHAT YOU HAVE PROMISED.

You don't give some lame excuse, blame the other side, and see a green light for A FAR-LEFT WING AGENDA.


That is Obama's problem - and that is why people are angry.


The democrats instead of recognizing reality, prefer to engage in sexual slurs and HATE SPEECH.

THE DEMOCRATS PRACTICE HATE SPEECH AGAINST THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

The federal government has about $108 trillion in unfunded liabilities. So it launched a massive new entitlement by seizing control of the healthcare industry, which anyone with an IQ above Joy Behar's knows will cause the deficit to explode.

The options: 1) Weimar-style hyperinflation; 2) Third World–style default; 3) removing the Cloward-Piven socialists from office and radically reversing their policies. We have a few years at best before the house of cards collapses.

Posted by: Zouk_is_King | March 24, 2010 4:45 PM

Two bad options and one good...ummm those are all the options? Biased are you not? I chose option 4.

Posted by: ModerateVoter | March 24, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Whoever thinks that this healthcare “reform” bill is going to lower the deficit in 10 years needs to get a clue. Does anyone actually have a thought of their own or are they just listening to what comes out of Obama and the media’s mouth and taking it as gospel? You know what they say; there are always two sides to the truth. For anyone who says if you are against the bill that you must hate children and old people… really? In a perfect world everyone would have insurance and nobody would be homeless and nobody would lose their job, etc. What you fail to realize is that there is a price tag far greater than our economy can handle. Are you not afraid of bankrupting our country because of all the handouts we give to people? I am not for handouts; I am for helping people to help themselves. None of our “giveaways” provide incentive to achieve… The problem with a socialistic society is that eventually the money runs out because the incentive to achieve is no longer there. I seriously fear for our country’s future and that of my children.

Posted by: chof | March 24, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS AN ORGANIZED ATTEMPT TO SMEAR AN ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE BASED ON THE ALLEGED, AND UNPROVEN, ACTIONS OF A FEW.


This is what Obama is all about.


Obama : it is not about the color of your skin, it is about the content of your character - which you are sorely lacking.

If you get elected on promises of Bipartisanship, which is difficult, you should make all sorts of efforts to DELIVER WHAT YOU HAVE PROMISED.

You don't give some lame excuse, blame the other side, and see a green light for A FAR-LEFT WING AGENDA.


That is Obama's problem - and that is why people are angry.


The democrats instead of recognizing reality, prefer to engage in sexual slurs and HATE SPEECH.

THE DEMOCRATS PRACTICE HATE SPEECH AGAINST THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT.

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.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

"*"Repeal and Replace"?: Republicans appear to have settled on the two-pronged message of repealing the just-passed bill and then passing legislation more in line with the sort of reforms they believe the system needs."

Of course, with their 100 record of NOT doing anything about health care that benefits anyone not rich enough to buy out Rockefeller, they aren't going to have a whole lot of credibility, especially since their replacement will be some permutation of Ryan's "Health Care Reform" bill.

The are bankrupt of ideas, and overloaded with burned out hacks who came into Congress in the newt Revolution, and should have kept their promises to self limit their terms in Congress. Odds are they will be term limited this time when product satisfaction problems cause their recall.

Posted by: ceflynline | March 24, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Nobody need bother refuting 37ths lies about the spitting and name calling. We all saw the videos and we all know his brain is fried from hog tranquilizer and meth. Just PgUp.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 24, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Obama practiced a central deception in 2008 - he promised to pursue BIPARTISANSHIP when he was elected - which meant he would agree to CENTRIST POLICIES. THIS IS WHAT WAS GENERALLY UNDERSTOOD.

OBAMA THEN TOOK A FAR-LEFT WING TURN.

YES, OBAMA IS IMPOSING A FAR-LEFT WING AGENDA ON AMERICA - AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT IT.


OBAMA IS NOT REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE, HE IS REPRESENTING A SMALL LEFT WING MINORITY.


CASE CLOSED.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 3:08 PM

Case not closed....until the Republicans are in control and repeal the current Dem efforts it is all noise.

I will give you this. The case is closed for you but not the rest of us.

Posted by: ModerateVoter | March 24, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

The federal government has about $108 trillion in unfunded liabilities. So it launched a massive new entitlement by seizing control of the healthcare industry, which anyone with an IQ above Joy Behar's knows will cause the deficit to explode.

The options: 1) Weimar-style hyperinflation; 2) Third World–style default; 3) removing the Cloward-Piven socialists from office and radically reversing their policies. We have a few years at best before the house of cards collapses.

Posted by: Zouk_is_King | March 24, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

hiberniantears at 4:21


I hate to argue with an Irishman, however there are NO RACIAL SLURS ON THAT TAPE

THERE ARE NO RECORDINGS OF ANY RACIAL SLURS.

HUNDREDS OF CAMERAS - HUNDREDS OF MICROPHONES - HUNDREDS OF CELL PHONES WHICH CAN RECORD SOUND -

NO ONE HAS ANY RACIAL SLUR ON TAPE.

ONLY GROWN MEN COMPLAINING THEY WERE CALLED BAD NAMES.


.


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

WE THE PEOPLE DONT WANT HEALTHCARE WHY WASHTON STILL GIVE IT TO US DID

Posted by: BUGADOJ | March 24, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

shrink2 said "I am a registered Republican. I even voted for Bush/Cheney, twice. Never again. After the Republican behavior of the past year I am going to vote for the Democrat Party the rest of my life and everyone else should too.
- - - - - - - - - - -
LMOA! Yea, and I'm a registered Democrat and voted for Obama. But now I'm disgusted with this Marxist takeover and disregard for the consitution. I'm never going to vote Democrat again! In fact, I'm going to SPAM everyone and let them know! blah, blah blah. Sure, shrink, we believe you. Now, go talk to a shrink.

Posted by: NO-bama | March 24, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

"Roughly three in ten Democrats described themselves as "enthusiastic" that the bill had passed while 41 percent of Republicans said they were "angry" about passage, suggesting an intensity gap still exists -- at least for the moment."

Of course, since R's are at record low numbers in terms of self identified members of the party, less than half of the less than a third of registered voters means like a sixth of the electorate. D's being in the 40% range of registered voters, that is about 12% of registered voters, double the R's.

The question will be what the I's perceptions of R contrariness does to their perception of the Party and candidates. When R candidates get into the mode of being against everything, (but, well, actually clause A and maybe section 2 and... aren't all that bad) but being mad and absolutely livid about Obama's passing this bill that needs to be repealed, (but maybe not all there are ).... and their own TV interviews will be the candidates debating themselves, while they kowtow to the T's, who don't like them and are pushing their own fuzzy image mad hatters ... ... ...

The Democrats and their "loser" ways will seem positively focused.

My prediction, in November the D's pick up a several vote cushion against filibusters and in the house they gain double digits of seats. The Republicans declare that next time they will be purer and the T-People go on a RINO skinning safari.

Posted by: ceflynline | March 24, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Now's the time to seek out single payer candidates. If we really want health care savings, cut out the middleman and use volume buying - Business 101

It's not a government takeover because there are no restrictions on high-end clinics and hospitals.
England does fine with both and so can we.

Posted by: ThePoliticalStraycom | March 24, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS AN ORGANIZED ATTEMPT TO SMEAR AN ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE BASED ON THE ALLEGED, AND UNPROVEN, ACTIONS OF A FEW.


This is what Obama is all about.


Obama : it is not about the color of your skin, it is about the content of your character - which you are sorely lacking.

If you get elected on promises of Bipartisanship, which is difficult, you should make all sorts of efforts to DELIVER WHAT YOU HAVE PROMISED.

You don't give some lame excuse, blame the other side, and see a green light for A FAR-LEFT WING AGENDA.


That is Obama's problem - and that is why people are angry.


The democrats instead of recognizing reality, prefer to engage in sexual slurs and HATE SPEECH.

THE DEMOCRATS PRACTICE HATE SPEECH AGAINST THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT.

.

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Despite an utterly dismal 11% favorability rating, Nancy Pelosi is now flexing her newly-revived, catlike muscles (no insult intended to cats) with reckless abandon. Her latest target: a hissy fit at the health insurance industry.

Asked if insurance companies might raise their rates on health coverage and blame the increases on the new health-care bill, Pelosi said that the insurance companies should be aware that they're not "automatically included" in the new health exchanges the bill creates.
"Unless they do the right thing, they're not going in," she said. "They will be relinquishing the possibility of having taxpayer-subsidized consumers in the exchange," she said.
Nevermind the fact that ObamaCare as signed actually does not "guarantee that kids with health problems would not be shut out of coverage." The dirty truth is that everything about ObmaCare is aimed at raising insurance rates for private companies. Allowing coverage with pre-existing conditions is but one factor, which would necessarily increase rates in any sane economic system because the overall risk would increase in the insured population. However, under insane Obamanomics, the hapless insurance companies will be forced out of business whether they raise their rates or not.

If the above quote from the Evil Empress doesn't qualify as a confession that the goal of ObamaCare is socialized medicine under a single-payer system, It's not clear what would.

Posted by: Zouk_is_King | March 24, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Speaking with unhinged radical Dylan Ratigan on MSDNC, Obama's HHS Secretary ... Abortion Queen Kathleen Sebelius (whose powers are vastly expanded under ObamaCare)... brags that the legislation will result in companies that make life-saving drugs having their profits reduced by $90 Billion.

She pitches this as a benefit. Because corporate profits are bad. Profits represent excess value, according to Obama's favorite economic philosopher. The idea that higher profits enable companies to give more workers jobs never occurs to them.

Remind me again why people who think this administration are Marxists are supposed to be kooks?

Posted by: Zouk_is_King | March 24, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: jlhare1 "But seriously, if I thought this country was going down the tubes because of majority rule, I'd get the hell out of Dodge and never look back."
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
That's the difference between you and a true Patriot. Patriots are willing to fight back at all cost.

Posted by: NO-bama | March 24, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Under the headline "Costly Bill Seen as Saving Money," the San Francisco Chronicle last week began a front-page story with these words: "Many people find it hard to understand how the health care legislation heading for a decisive vote Sunday can cost $940 billion and cut the horrendous federal deficit at the same time."

It's not hard to understand at all. It is a lie.

Posted by: Zouk_is_King | March 24, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

If you people who are offering dire predictions for the country because HCR passed really believe in your predictions, maybe you should leave. We won the election. We won the health care reform vote. If you continue to act like spoiled children, we might just win in many Novembers to come. But seriously, if I thought this country was going down the tubes because of majority rule, I'd get the hell out of Dodge and never look back.

Posted by: jlhare1 | March 24, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: hiberniantears | March 24, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Your tax dollars at work...

"For the second consecutive day, Senate Republicans angry over the health care legislation blocked Senate committees from meeting on Wednesday, including an Armed Services Committee session that top officers stationed in Hawaii and Korea had traveled to Washington to attend."

Who cares?

Posted by: shrink2 | March 24, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Once again the Republicans have shot themselves in the foot .... Obama & the Democrats + the "NOW" favorable Press coverage will show the country how stupid and Anti-People the Republicans really are. The party that continues to look for the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" myth & has such well known idiots as Newt Gingrich, Limbaugh & Palin continuing to spew hate & bigotry + Fox News { The Right Wing Voice } with it's cast of News Reporters who spew & lies and mistrust .. BTW, they never leave their office {No on the scene reporting for that bunch} the demise of the Republican party looks as a huge possibility. As for the November Elections, the poor Republicans hopes of some sort of victory have vanished ... Bon Voyage

Posted by: wasaUFO | March 24, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse


I donated $100 as a congratulations gift at https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/dnc08hvshirt?thankyou=signup
I'm looking forward to wearing the "Health Care Reform" t-shirt, with the Hope and Change logo, they will send me in return. I'm a retired Colorado homebuilder and have been around the block a few times. Although I'm a confirmed independent to maintain objectivity in the issues I am a solid supporter of President Obama and his agenda. My hope is as I wear the shirt I can engage in conversations with folks I meet about health care reform and share my insights - in particular, list the lies and hypocrisy that is running roughshod through the GOP/teabagger crowd. The bill is not perfect, Obama admits this, but it was shameful the way the GOP did the "waterloo dance" to "kill the bill". If I have any success they will pay a price for their anti-American, immoral tactics - which amount to nothing more than a naked grab for power.

Posted by: truthseeker13 | March 24, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Posted: March 21st, 2010 05:02 PM ET

On CNN's State of the Union, Rep. Mike Pence, R-Indiana, called the slur directed at Rep. John Lewis, D-Georgia, 'contemptible.' 'I denounce it in the strongest terms,' Pence said.

Washington (CNN) - House Republican leaders criticized the use of slurs against Democratic congressmen by protesters on Capitol Hill Saturday.

As they should have. And they shouldn't have been palling around with the very people who uttered them.

Now STFU, burnout.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Q: Where's the tape of it ?? There is none.

A: ABC News. Just watch the Nightly News from Sunday night. The tapes are the major story, and slurs are clearly audible.


Q: And why are these Congressmen walking through the crowd of protestors ???:

A: The Congressmen were entering the Capitol building. The protesters were standing in the door. Likewise, many of the slurs on the tape were yelled INSIDE the Capitol building, such as that directed at Rep. Frank, which is also clearly audible on tape.


Posted by: hiberniantears | March 24, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Sloppy work by Democrats:
1.It appears children with pre-existing conditions will Not have coverage until 2014.
2. Seniors will Not be getting 50% discount on name-brand drugs until 2011.

so, does that mean they "sold us a bill of goods"... since now they have to retract what they promised?
Does that mean the votes still count since
the information was wrong or misleading?

Posted by: ohioan | March 24, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

What's really sad about most of the comments on here is how extreme they are. On both sides. Things have gotten so divisive and polarized these days that there isn't much room left for any type of critical thinking when discussing politics. This "us versus them" mentality has become too cheap and easy.

Posted by: ringandwet | March 24, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

"The Authoritarian-Fascist-Republican party led by Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rice, Lott, DeLay, Libby will never recover for their corrupt actions that went in to this illegal war. There is more discrimination and illegal action in this facade than in any bill in the History of the United States Congress and signed by an incompetent President.
It is just a matter of time when not one of them will hold public office in Washington, DC from Bush on down.

Posted by: bobojake | March 24, 2010 3:32 PM"

__________________________________________

Well said.

Posted by: hiberniantears | March 24, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse


Unemployment Extension Funds Used for Health Care Reform-Unemployed Shafted Again
Once again the unemployed in America get the shaft.

If you wondered what happened to the Tax Extenders Bill; HR4213, that left the Senate floor for the House a few weeks ago, wonder no more. The EUC and Cobra extensions that were attached to the tax extender Bill, were earmarked for the same monies that the House utilized to cover the Health Care Bill. I repeat-There is NO funding for the bill, HR 4213 that the Senate sent back to the House for approval. cont..

http://flyfishva.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/24/4063209-unemployment-extension-funds-used-for-health-care-reform-unemployed-shafted-again
or here:
http://joblessamericanworkers.blogspot.com/2010/03/unemployment-extension-funds-used-for.html

Posted by: Tim_incubator | March 24, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

drindl: You mean Grassley is for it after he was against it? Say it ain't so! ;)

Posted by: Gallenod | March 24, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

hiberniantears


Where's the tape of it ?? There is none.

And why are these Congressmen walking through the crowd of protestors ???

It makes no sense - Congressmen never go out into a crowd of protestors - much less the opposition protestors.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

I am a registered Republican. I even voted for Bush/Cheney, twice. Never again. After the Republican behavior of the past year I am going to vote for the Democrat Party the rest of my life and everyone else should too.

Not only that, I am going to spam blogs with variations on this email day after day, just in case some fool believes me, or says thank you.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 24, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

"If this legislation was truly good for the American public, why was it so difficult to pass?"

Verrazzano, it was difficult to pass because the Democratic Party is a fractious group with a wide range of political views ranging from Dennis Kucinich (so far to the Left he's in outer space) to Ben Nelson (farther to the Right than some of the Republicans). That they passed anything at all given their own internal divisions is a political miracle, particularly when I expected them to panic and fall apart completely after Brown was elected in Massachusetts.

Then again, the Democrats in Congress represent a much wider swath of the potlical spectrum than the Republicans, who have been moving their Leftward border steadily Rightward for the last four decades (and their Rightward border even farther Right).

If the Republicans are in the majority (which they were for a while), they usually don't have any trouble enforcing party discipline and passing stuff, often with the votes of conservative Democrats along for the ride.

But, in this case, Congressional Democrats grew a spine. Who knew the had it in them?

Posted by: Gallenod | March 24, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Already, just like with the stimulus, the Rs who fought it the hardest are now taking credit for it... yo will see more and more of this, and talk about repeal will fade away.

"Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) has long been a vocal critic of the Democrat's health reform efforts, but today he started taking credit for some provisions of the bill, and talking up his own role in crafting the legislation.

In a release sent out by his staff to reporters today, Grassley says the bill will "hold tax-exempt hospitals accountable for the federal tax benefits they receive" thanks to his work."

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

With all the reporters, cameras and microphones at the Capitol on Sunday - NOT ONE CAUGHT ANY RACIAL SLUR.


THIS HAS THE MARKINGS OF A MANUFACTURED RACIAL INCIDENT.


And - what were the Congressmen doing, walking out with the Tea Party people ???? Rarely do you see Congressmen just walking out and hanging out with the protesters - especially opposition protesters.


Seriously


This has become a pattern among the Obama people - there is Never AN ACTUAL INCIDENT - JUST AN ALLEGED INCIDENT DESIGNED TO GET SYMPATHY AND POLITICAL POINTS.


IT IS GETTING RIDICULOUS THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY IN THE GOVERNMENT


.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Google it 37thand0street. The video of the slurs were all over the news on Sunday and Monday, and you can still find them on the internet. Truth hurts. As for why the members were walking amongst the protesters, it is because the protesters were gathered around the entrance.

Deal with it. Your movement is little more than a racist, homophobic hate machine that has lost all common sense in a blind rage. Don't believe me? One of your main talking points is that Obama is a crypto-Muslim foreigner. Aside from this being a generally absurd assertion, it also suggests an inherent evil associated with Muslims, which is also a falacy.

In all honesty, why are you so angry?

Are you angry that your children are less likely to die in a dishonest war? Are you angry that if you lose your job, you will not have to worry about a streak of bad luck that lands you in a hospital without insurance? Are you angry that if you suddenly develop a heart condition, and change jobs, you will not have to worry about your new HMO providing coverage? Are you angry that if something happens to a loved one, they will now be assured of coverage, and you will not have to take on a second, third, or fourth job to cover them?

I mean, come on! You sound like the little kid who doesn't get their preferred swing on the playground and throws a hissy fit in the sandbox.

Posted by: hiberniantears | March 24, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

The Democrats call this a victory.
What victory? This is a betrayal! When more than 50% of the country says they do not want this legislation, then this is not representation of the MAJORITY of Americans and should be struck down by the courts.

Posted by: nocroman | March 24, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

As you watch local news it is common to see a small church sell pancake meals ,trying to raise money for some sick sole. to pay for medical treatment.

It is like watering a horse with a tea spoon, its going to die.

There are things in the bill, many do not like, But to look the folks of a dying 3 year in the eyes, and say NO! INSURENCE COST TO MUCH, ITS BETTER AND CHEAPER TO LET YOUR KID DIE.

tO SAY NO TO THIS BILL IS TO PUT MYSELF ON A death panel, and my up teaching puts LIFE BEFORE MONEY....

Posted by: dv1236 | March 24, 2010 3:54 PM | Report abuse

What's wrong with you people - don't you know that the GOP has been trying to get healthcare passed for years?? That the GOP has the big party tent and welcomes people of all colors, religions, races and sexual orientations? How dare you suggest otherwise?! I'm shocked! Simply shocked at the comments that suggest otherwise.

Posted by: bcmakeitso | March 24, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

I'll pass on the healthcare fray but I think it's important that people realize that Deeds lost his bid for Virginia Governor because he lacked charisma, demonstrated no passion or commitment and ran a lackluster campaign. His failure, in a predominantly Republican state, was no referendum on the President or the Democratic Party

Posted by: Virginiadem1 | March 24, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

"we're SUPPOSED TO BE A REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLICAN form of government where the American people are the rulers of their own destiny and tell their Representatives what to do, we now have a Communist form of government where the American people are the ruled"

all over the world people are laughing at how stupid some amricans are. people who have actually lived under communism are astonished at the asinity and ignorance of it.

sorry chumps, you lost the election. now get over it.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Thank you, ohioan.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 24, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse


'THIS HAS THE MARKINGS OF A MANUFACTURED RACIAL INCIDENT."

it was all over the place. don't you ever just STFU? christ, what a burnout. what meth does to your brain -- tragic.


Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

The liberal-socialist-democrat party led by obama, schumer, reid, murray.pelosi, frank, dodd will never recover for their corrupt actions that went in to this illagal legislation. There is more discrimination and illegal action in this facade then in any bill in the History of the United States Congress and signed by an incompetent President.
It is just a matter of time when not one of them will hold public office in Washington, DC from obama on down.

Posted by: bobojake | March 24, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

I find it interesting how some political pundits call this legislation as a victory for Obama, Pelosi and Reid. Victory over whom? It was among their own party members that they had to secure votes. It was done with arm twisting, special deals and other practices to convince members of a super majority to vote for the bill. If this legislation was truly good for the American public, why was it so difficult to pass?

Posted by: Verrazzano | March 24, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Unnecessary suffering is morally unacceptable.

H.R. Haldeman once said that their aim was to dress up anti-black policies as non-racial. Years on and some Republicans are still trying to do this.

If Healthcare goes ahead, fewer blacks will die. If healthcare is blocked, more blacks will die. It's as simple as that. As appalling as that.

Europeans often regard American politics unfavorably. With good reason.

-T.

Posted by: AnthonyHollick | March 24, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

is the obama arms deal going to go into effect in 2015 too???????

Posted by: simonsays1 | March 24, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

You know Damn well, that about 14 percent of those who opposed the health care reform in past polls did so, because they thought it did not go far enough. That would mean that 54 percent were always for some kind of health care reform and you know it very well. why will you not report good news for the health care reform? you must let your readers know your agenda it certainly is not reporting FACTS.
-------------------

But, of course, you have no problem counting with the "it's better than nothing - we'll fix it later" camp in the "supporting" column; they didn't really support it. Don't you think that's somewhat disingenuous; it doesn't affect your moral sensitivities? You are right though; too many poll questions are poorly worded and generally seek to support a position rather than actually function as a research tool.

Posted by: tnvret | March 24, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

With all the reporters, cameras and microphones at the Capitol on Sunday - NOT ONE CAUGHT ANY RACIAL SLUR.


THIS HAS THE MARKINGS OF A MANUFACTURED RACIAL INCIDENT.


And - what were the Congressmen doing, walking out with the Tea Party people ???? Rarely do you see Congressmen just walking out and hanging out with the protesters - especially opposition protesters.


Seriously


This has become a pattern among the Obama people - there is Never AN ACTUAL INCIDENT - JUST AN ALLEGED INCIDENT DESIGNED TO GET SYMPATHY AND POLITICAL POINTS.


IT IS GETTING RIDICULOUS THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY IN THE GOVERNMENT


.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

ModerateVoter

Obama practiced a central deception in 2008 - he promised to pursue BIPARTISANSHIP when he was elected - which meant he would agree to CENTRIST POLICIES. THIS IS WHAT WAS GENERALLY UNDERSTOOD.


OBAMA THEN TOOK A FAR-LEFT WING TURN.

YES, OBAMA IS IMPOSING A FAR-LEFT WING AGENDA ON AMERICA - AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT IT.


OBAMA IS NOT REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE, HE IS REPRESENTING A SMALL LEFT WING MINORITY.


CASE CLOSED.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

The press have not been "universally positive". Just one example, today, Morning Joe..."this is a terrible bill" then the table all nodded in agreement that the republican's have better ideas....after Joe lists the same-old lines (buy across state lines, lower costs...)without ANY analysis of what the republicans plan of complete deregulation and profit-driven healthcare would do and HOW those with pre-existing conditions would pay for it? The Republicans say there will be a HiRisk Pool. But who pays for it? If we with pre-existing do we won't be able to afford the higher rates and will be driven onto disability. If it is subsidized, then who will pay that...the tax payer? Isn't that a form of mandate? The press needs to ask the same hard questions of the republican plan as they continually do of the democrat plan.... Furthermore, if the healthcare mandate is unconstitutional, why wasn't Bush proposal to privatize social security...that also mandated everyone either pay into the retirement system or buy a private retirement package. Just like Healthcare mandates everyone either pay into the healthcare system or buy a private health package. What is the difference?

Posted by: cmnsns | March 24, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

I'm a registered Democrat, but I Hate Obama's healthcare bill. There are better and more effective ways to reform healthcare.
I will not vote for any Democrats who voted for this bill, and I will not vote for Obama again.

Posted by: ohioan | March 24, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

blert: Let's stick with what I actually said instead of what you'd like to argue about. You accuse me of generalities I did not state.

I didn't include all Christians in my description, only those people I see wearing their religion on their sleeve for political purposes. I do not like "convenience Christians" who tend to ignore inconvenient parts of the Gospel when it doesn't suit them.

I did not use the term "conservatives" at all, let alone try to smear them. But apparently you didn't really need my help identifying the villains. Anyone I'd consider a true conservative would have been a lot more rational in their approach to health care reform (and opposition to it) than the yapping sound-biters currently baying for repeal.

You'll also need to actually prove that conservatives donate more to charity that liberals and whether or not they condition their charity on religious or political grounds to make your second point stick. True charity should be based on the outcome, not the means, and if the outcome is that more people are helped it should not matter whether the instrument is a private charity or the government.

(Though I also hold that "forced charity," which this bill is in some sense, is not true charity.)

One of the reasons FDR, Truman, and Johnson did not achieve the same type of health care reform was that Blue Cross/Blue Shield was a non-profit operation that provided good coverage at fair prices. In the 1970's, however, private insurers started siphoning off younger, healthier subscribers, leaving BC/BS to pick up the tab for the remainder. Eventually, BC/BS were pretty much forced to follow suit, so by the 1990's we lost the non-profit option for much of the health care market.

Then HMOs started up. Clintoncare failed because the market shift hadn't penetrated the populace's limited attention span and the insurance business prospered. Obamacare passed because enough people thought the system needed fixing.

And now we have a new baseline for health care, which is still based largely on the same mix of public and private care we had before, only with more regulation of the private sector to rein in some of its more anti-social behavior and an imposition of group support that we seem to have lost in our "all for one, and that one is me" modern society. America grew and prospered through shared values, work, and sacrifice. If we all just go our own libertarian way, how long before the whole country just dissolves into an anarchistic mess?

The world changed this week, and it will change next week too. Deal with it.

Posted by: Gallenod | March 24, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

WHICH ARE BEING IMPOSED ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGAINST THEIR WILL.

I find this statement stupid. We hold elections. The Dems won on a platform of change. They pass a HCR bill. If the majority do not like it, they will vote in Repubs and kick the Dems into the street. The Repubs will then be able to pass whatever they like and undue what changes the Dems made.

The against their will crap is getting old.

Posted by: ModerateVoter | March 24, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

these folks and their family values:

Last December, Paulding County lost its representative in the Georgia House when he resigned in a high profile sex and conflict-of-interest scandal.

Glenn Richardson, the family-values Republican who represented the county and was speaker of the house, stepped down after his ex-wife publicly accused him of having "a full-out affair" with a lobbyist while he was married.

So when Paulding County voters went to the polls for a special election Tuesday, they selected ... another family-values conservative who had admitted to an extramarital affair!

Meet newly minted Rep. Daniel Stout.

As the writer Tom Crawford of Capitol Impact noted this week, Stout "has been compelled to address a personal incident from 10 years ago: he had an affair with his first wife's mother while his first wife was pregnant with their daughter. Stout and his first wife subsequently divorced."

yes, those are some values.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse


With all the reporters, cameras and microphones at the Capitol on Sunday - NOT ONE CAUGHT ANY RACIAL SLUR.


THIS HAS THE MARKINGS OF A MANUFACTURED RACIAL INCIDENT.


And - what were the Congressmen doing, walking out with the Tea Party people ???? Rarely do you see Congressmen just walking out and hanging out with the protesters - especially opposition protesters.


Seriously


This has become a pattern among the Obama people - there is Never AN ACTUAL INCIDENT - JUST AN ALLEGED INCIDENT DESIGNED TO GET SYMPATHY AND POLITICAL POINTS.


IT IS GETTING RIDICULOUS THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY IN THE GOVERNMENT


.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

drindl


Are you pointing to one group of people before you know the facts? Anything could have happened.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

CNN did, you dolt.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Conservative church goers give more to charity than liberal secularists:

http://www.familyfacts.org/topten/topten_archive_new.cfm?datenow=01/1/2010

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 24, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

"After a tea party organizer published the address of the brother of Rep. Tom Perriello (D-VA) in a blog post urging anti-health reform activists to "drop by," someone cut a propane gas line at the house, Politico is reporting."

So what we have here is a wave of domestic terrorism which is eventually going to kill someone. If this had not been seen and promptly reported it likely would have resulted in blowing up the house, with 4 kids under the age of 8 in it.

If I were a Republican, I think I might want to stop these people before they do any more damage to human beings --and your party.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

When will the madness end? Maybe when Congress runs out of 'other peoples money" to spend. Who will feed the poor and pay for free healthcare when country is bankrupt? Wake up!!!

http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/Default.aspx

Posted by: johngault4 | March 24, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse


With all the reporters, cameras and microphones at the Capitol on Sunday - NOT ONE CAUGHT ANY RACIAL SLUR.


THIS HAS THE MARKINGS OF A MANUFACTURED RACIAL INCIDENT.

And - what were the Congressmen doing, walking out with the Tea Party people ???? Rarely do you see Congressmen just walking out and hanging out with the protesters - especially opposition protesters.


Seriously


This has become a pattern among the Obama people - there is Never AN ACTUAL INCIDENT - JUST AN ALLEGED INCIDENT DESIGNED TO GET SYMPATHY AND POLITICAL POINTS.


IT IS GETTING RIDICULOUS THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY IN THE GOVERNMENT

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Blert, I agree with your post that financial re-regulation should have been job #2. And I blame BHO for not going with Volcker early on that. I hope you are wrong on the momentum having been lost, but Simon Johnson agrees with you and he actually knows a lot about it.

I do think they made the economy job #1 and flawed as they may have been TARP and AARA and the cooperation of the G8 in spending Big Bucks probably really did stave off a Depression.

But not shifting focus immediately to banks and finance was, IMO, the error that may cost us another bubble and bust - which is what I think you are saying, too.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 24, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Chris Cillizza's "What we know" describes the problems with Comrade Barack Obama's and the Democrap Socialist Party's Health Care Bill perfectly.

1. (C.C.)"Before passage, unpopularity":
While the vast majority of the American people opposed this Communist government takeover of our (private) Health Care system, and we're SUPPOSED TO BE A REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLICAN form of government where the American people are the rulers of their own destiny and tell their Representatives what to do, we now have a Communist form of government where the American people are the ruled. Our one-time representatives are now the ruling class, who will impose their rules on us (or else), whether we like it or not (for our own good of course, according to them).

2. (C.C.) "A rush of positive press"
Thank you Chris C. for admitting that the American Main Stream Media is nothing more than the Democrap Socialist's and Comrade Obama's propaganda arm and cheering section. It's revealing that while about 60% of all the American people opposed this HC bill, the Democrap Socialist Party--controlled Main Stream Media STILL supports it overwhelmingly, proving beyond a shadow of doubt that they're in bed together.

3. (C.C.)"Republicans, united and energized"
True, but a bit off the mark.
While the Republicans are energized, the ones really pi**ed off of what's happening to our country are the Independents, and it's the Independents who elect all of our elected officials. They don't like Comrade Obama's and the Democrap Socialist's Communist takeover of private industry; their sleazy manipulations of our Constitution's principals; their sleazy, unethical, dishonest, and criminal special deals given out for votes; the tanking of our economy because of an incompetent and Communist agenda--driven president's ideology of governing; the deficit 3 times as high IN ONE YEAR as President G.W. Bush had it, which will have to be paid for by our children, and the comming high taxes on the Communist programs they've forced on the American people. By the 2010 midterm elections, it'll be they and the GOP who'll be telling Comrade Obama and the Democrap Socialist's, who are responsible for all this mess we're in, where to stick their Communist agenda.

Posted by: armpeg | March 24, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse


There have been efforts by the democrats to define everyone in the Tea Party Movement by the actions of a few.


Clearly, if that logic is valid, then the democrats would not object to going to any Courthouse in America and defining all blacks in the country by the few who are on trial as criminals.


This effort by the democrats is silly - and it is destracting the country from the MASSIVE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM AND THE MASSIVE TAXES WHICH ARE BEING IMPOSED ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGAINST THEIR WILL.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

blert, I didn't literally mean filibuster EVERYTHING. But among those three that voted for the stimulus, one is no longer a Republican. The other two (the Maine Senators) are going to be tough for the leadership to keep in line. Obviously neither are particularly vulnerable, but they do need to represent their constituents in a pretty blue state. I'm not sure where Scott Brown falls in that spectrum. He knows he's from one the bluest state, but he also seems like he wants to endear himself to Republican leadership somewhat. But that just highlights the difficulties of trying to obstruct even more. I'm sure the more liberal Republicans aren't really interested in doing that forever. Perhaps the leadership won't try either. If it didn't work with health care, it's got less of a chance of working with other bills. My conflation of jobs and regulation was about the fact that both of these issues will sit well with the public, not the logistics of the actual legislation.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 24, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

With all the reporters, cameras and microphones at the Capitol on Sunday - NOT ONE CAUGHT ANY RACIAL SLUR.

THIS HAS THE MARKINGS OF A MANUFACTURED RACIAL INCIDENT.


And - what were the Congressmen doing, walking out with the Tea Party people ???? Rarely do you see Congressmen just walking out and hanging out with the protesters - especially opposition protesters.


Seriously

This has become a pattern among the Obama people - there is Never AN ACTUAL INCIDENT - JUST AN ALLEGED INCIDENT DESIGNED TO GET SYMPATHY AND POLITICAL POINTS.

IT IS GETTING RIDICULOUS THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY IN THE GOVERNMENT

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.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

.

.

The point is, BURNOUT, that a great many Toilet Papers are ADVOCATING AND COMMITTING VIOLENCE.

An INCONVENIENT TRUTH.


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Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

"First, many Christians are Democrats and liberals, and they actually did support this legislation.

Second, the conservatives whom you're trying to smear actually give more to charities to help the poor than liberals do, so you're misguided to say that they don't care about the poor.

Third, the question is not whether or not the poor should be helped, but whether or not the government should be the primary vehicle for doing so. Conservatives are skeptical that the government is the best mechanism for helping the poor, but they would not dispute that the poor actually need assistance."

I find the idea that conservatives give more to charity dubious, since they publicly never express any charitable thoughts, but as to your point about helping the poor, perhaps govenment is NOT the best mechanism.

But you are not offering anything in place of it, so essentially are saying just do nothing.

In the case of health care, it isn't just the poor. Premiums have been rising every single year for some time now so that a great man ymiddle class families can't afford insurance either.

And Republicans did exactly zero about that while they were in power.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

There have been efforts by the democrats to define everyone in the Tea Party Movement by the actions of a few.


Clearly, if that logic is valid, then the democrats would not object to going to any Courthouse in America and defining all blacks in the country by the few who are on trial as criminals.


This effort by the democrats is silly - and it is destracting the country from the MASSIVE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM AND THE MASSIVE TAXES WHICH ARE BEING IMPOSED ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGAINST THEIR WILL.


.


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

find it appallingly hypocritical that many of the same people who continually argue that America is a "Christian nation" seem to forget that Christ preached in favor of feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, and healing the sick. I suppose their politics are more important than their religion -- or are their religion.
My appraisal is that passing health care reform will reduce the losses the Dems were likely to suffer anyway in the mid-terms becuase it has, belatedly, shown swing voters that they can, in fact, legislate. If they had failed to pass it, they'd have probably lost the House in 2010 and set themselves up to lose the Senate in 2012.
The rest of the legislative session this year leading up the the mid-terms should be quite interesting.
Posted by: Gallenod
-----------------------------------------
However Christians believe in the concept of free will. God does not force you to do or don’t do anything. You are not charitable if it is forced. Since you are using JC preaching and “healing the sick” is "in place" are you also proposing free food and free homes?

Posted by: leapin | March 24, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

"You don't have any points besides smearing people which libs learn at an early age. Easy to demonize the "racists" to rally the black population every 4 years for the election. Then send the blacks back to the failed liberal run cities and school systems."

You really are a sad case. All US cities and school systems are run by liberals? My, what an interesting factoid. You would probably surprise some people in places like Texas.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

I find it appallingly hypocritical that many of the same people who continually argue that America is a "Christian nation" seem to forget that Christ preached in favor of feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, and healing the sick. I suppose their politics are more important than their religion -- or are their religion.

Posted by: Gallenod

-------------------

Gallenod,

There are a few problems with your logic.

First, many Christians are Democrats and liberals, and they actually did support this legislation.

Second, the conservatives whom you're trying to smear actually give more to charities to help the poor than liberals do, so you're misguided to say that they don't care about the poor.

Third, the question is not whether or not the poor should be helped, but whether or not the government should be the primary vehicle for doing so. Conservatives are skeptical that the government is the best mechanism for helping the poor, but they would not dispute that the poor actually need assistance.

Posted by: blert | March 24, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

mark,

I tend to agree with you that any court challenges aren't likely to get far. Courts have almost never taken a narrow view of the commerce clause, and I doubt that the mandate will get shot down.

Forcing states to spend money is another issue. The federal government holds states over the barrel all the time by forcing them to spend X amount or to enforce such-and-such regulations if they want a piece of the federal pie. States can ignore No Child, but they lose out on federal education money. States can set drinking ages at 18 or 16 or whatever, but they lose out on federal road dollars. States can opt out of Medicaid, but they lose all of the federal money that would come with it. Throwing away federal money is very, very hard to do, and states almost always comply.

This bill, though, is not a carrot, but a stick. States have to comply...period. Whether this challenge will fly in court, I don't know, and Congress can probably dance around it by amending the law slightly to give states an extremely painful opt-out. Fine, you don't want to be a part of the federal insurance exchange, etc., etc.? If you don't, then you get no more Medicaid money at all. States would still keep the "choice," but every state would choose to be a part of the insurance program.

Posted by: blert | March 24, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Medicare doctors have just suffered a 21%decrease. Many are no longer taking medicare patients. Nice going Obama. I will remember that in November

Posted by: farmsnorton | March 24, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD,

1) It's not true that Republicans are filibustering everything. A number of senators crossed over to vote for the last jobs/stimulus bill.

2) Jobs creation and banking regulation are two different monsters, and I don't see how you can conflate one with the other. The former will be much easier to pass, but whether or not the billions and trillions thrown at it will actually create jobs is anybody's guess. It hasn't really worked so far.

The latter will be harder to pass, but with the right legislation, it could have a tangible effect. The problem is getting the right legislation, and most Americans aren't going to buy the idea that the Fed, who was instrumental in creating the housing bubble, is the right entity for the job. After all, the Fed is a private corporation composed of member banks. The only government control we have over it is that the president and Senate decide and approve who sits on the board. Since when did we give private corporations federal regulatory powers?


Republicans won't be making the bet that Americans hate Dodd more than they hate the banks. All Republicans need to do is to show that Dodd is in bed with the banks, which won't be hard at all. His list of past campaign donors reads like a Wall Street who's who list, and he has been independently ranked in the past year as one of the most corrupt legislators in the country. Simply show that Dodd is representing the interests of the financial sector, that he has written this bill FOR the banks, with their cooperation, and that provides all the political cover that anyone needs to vote against it.

Of course, many Republicans will be playing a duplicitous game in this because they actually don't want any significant regulation. But the fact that this is Dodd's bill and that the proposed regulation actually adds powers to the Fed instead of auditing the Fed and showing its dirty secrets in the wake of the collapse and bailouts will allow Republicans to vote against the bill with popular support without ever having to talk about what they want instead. Meanwhile, for the same reasons, enough Democrats will probably vote against it, too, that the bill dies a swift death.

The time for financial reform was precisely a year ago. There was a groundswell in public opinion for it, and the right bill would have seen swift passage and popular support, and it actually could have given Obama momentum going into the health care debate. Instead, Obama burned through whatever overwhelming popular support he had by passing a controversial, partisan spending bill and then jumping straight into health care. Jobs and financial regulation would have been easier to pass.

Posted by: blert | March 24, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

you're so good at proving my points. but you forgot to say 'f8ck america.' but we know that's what you meant.

Posted by: drindl
-----------------------------------------
You don't have any points besides smearing people which libs learn at an early age. Easy to demonize the "racists" to rally the black population every 4 years for the election. Then send the blacks back to the failed liberal run cities and school systems. Do you actually think a HC system born out of broken promises, lies, deceptions, and bribes will be a blessed? And please no more rolling your eyes and smerking when someone asks you to explain spending trillions that yu don't and will never have.

Posted by: leapin | March 24, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

I find it appallingly hypocritical that many of the same people who continually argue that America is a "Christian nation" seem to forget that Christ preached in favor of feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, and healing the sick. I suppose their politics are more important than their religion -- or are their religion.

My appraisal is that passing health care reform will reduce the losses the Dems were likely to suffer anyway in the mid-terms becuase it has, belatedly, shown swing voters that they can, in fact, legislate. If they had failed to pass it, they'd have probably lost the House in 2010 and set themselves up to lose the Senate in 2012.

The rest of the legislative session this year leading up the the mid-terms should be quite interesting.

Posted by: Gallenod | March 24, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Blert, Congress can reach commerce among the states, and that includes INTRAstate commerce if it affects commerce among the states. The players here - Aetna, United, etc. are actually multinational insurers and they are affected by their [state regulated] wholly owned subsidiaries. There is no issue a court, however conservative, would recognize with regard to a claim that insurance did not affect commerce.

The sovereignty issue with regard to the medicaid compact might well arouse a conservative judge. There is no reason why the Congress cannot nationalize medicaid - but if it does so, can the states be forced to contribute to it? I suspect the counter argument will point to the interstate highway system and the involuntary nature of the states' contributions. I am not terribly convinced of that analogy. The feds will fully fund Medicaid at first and then back off. Will that make it an unfunded mandate like NCLB? Will that make it unconstitutional? I am guessing not, but I think it is a real interesting point and one that I have admittedly not researched.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 24, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I almost feel bad about conservative and republican supporters who believe they can repeal or even replace HCR. They're feeding themselves false hope: next rally, next elections, next something. There's gotta be something, right?
Just looking at the tea baggers reminds me of the people on Titanic. I'm sure a lot of them are very sincere in their fears and anger, a lot of them are patriotic Americans but they're stuck in some idyllic 18th century agrarian America which probably didn't even exist. It must be terrifying to realize that the world around you as you know it is moving away fast and you're being left behind.

Posted by: thor2 | March 24, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

The democrats I see don't even want to defend the bill - they are all acting like they stole something in the middle of the night - Bob Bechel went on TV but he didn't even want to talk about it.

Does that sound like an energized base?

In contrast, Obama has lost the Independents and he has zero chance of getting them back - Obama has ruined himself.


Ouch. Now Obama is going to Iowa - so Congess can be assured that Obama has his own re-election on his mind - and not theirs.

The democrats are going to face a defeat this fall unprecedented - Obama could have walked softly - and written a completely different story for himself.


Ouch.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | March 24, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Ouch, I'd hate to be the Republican(s) assigned to vote for reform, look at the dirty money* they'll be losing...

“The Chamber’s campaign comes on top of the $1.4 million per day already being spent on lobbying and campaign contributions by big banks and Wall Street financial firms. There are four financial lobbyists for every member of Congress.” NYT

*Ooops, I meant to say, free speech

Posted by: shrink2 | March 24, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

blert writes
"Add to this the fact that the bill proposes to expand the powers of the Fed into a vast regulatory role, even though many, many Americans blame the Fed for being one of the chief players leading up to the housing collapse, and it's hard to see how opposition to this bill will hurt anyone."


Opposition to the bill will hurt because doing nothing is maintaining the status quo, which let to the problem in the first place. Much of the enthusiasm for the tea people is driven by the bailouts of wall street specifically & big business generally. How does saying 'no' to wall street reform maintain that enthusiasm within the base? OK, you've killed an expansion to government regulation, but it doesn't take long for voters to remember that lack of oversight led to the problem in the first place. If the Dems take a reasonable position, the Repubs are screwed again. All Dems need to do is talk about adding enough regulation to prevent another 'too big to fail' scenario. They need to explicitly argue for a level of oversight that will allow companies to fail when they are mismanaged, and that the gov't will not step in with bailouts again. Without regulation, we're all collateral damage. If Dems can figure out how to present that argument, the party of the status quo will get creamed.


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Posted by: bsimon1 | March 24, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

All that matters to Rs is to smear the guy who's trying to solve the problem and f*ck america.

Posted by: drindl
------------------------------------------
I love "Countrywide" Chris. I hope he can give me advice on "refinancing".

Posted by: leapin |

you're so good at proving my points. but you forgot to say 'f8ck america.' but we know that's what you meant.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, Rs can laugh all they want about Dodd, but his seat is not in play and they are going to help pass his bill before he leaves. Swallow hard again Republicans.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 24, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

I don't think just talking about Dodd will do much to hurt this bill. Only the hardcore right thinks about him, whereas everyone knows what Wall Street did to this country.

“Let’s not paint all of Wall Street with the same brush, but there are those who really did tremendous harm to our economy,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters. “So now we will have a bill because we can’t ever let this happen again to the American people.”

As the country struggles with a 9.7 percent unemployment rate while financial stocks surge, 57 percent of Americans have a mostly unfavorable or very unfavorable view of Wall Street, versus fewer than one-quarter who have a favorable opinion. Banks are viewed badly by 54 percent of poll respondents, and 60 percent have a negative opinion of insurance companies.'

'The public hates the banksters- Democrats don’t need to move to the right on regulation to attract Republican votes. They need to loudly and daily hammer the Republicans as “in bed with the banksters” until they move to join the Democrats.'

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a4nQoiYaj2ag

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

All that matters to Rs is to smear the guy who's trying to solve the problem and f*ck america.

Posted by: drindl
------------------------------------------
I love "Countrywide" Chris. I hope he can give me advice on "refinancing".

Posted by: leapin | March 24, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

So I guess the Republicans' gamble is that people will hate Chris Dodd more than they hate the financial sector?

Who knows? Republicans are good at selling their points, so it might work. But it's a tough sell.

The Republicans picked a good topic with health care to go all-in with obstruction. But they lost. The problem is that it will be much tougher to do. First of all, the forthcoming issues will be focused on jobs and banking regulations. Those are much more popular. Second, healthcare necessitated a comprehensive bill, but that made it more vulnerable to attack. Jobs and regulation will be more incremental. It's much tougher to malign an incremental bill. Third, Republicans are filibustering everything. I don't think they can hide that fact forever.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 24, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

hey bsimon -- you should be a guest poster here. like every day.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

"Corker [R] said Wednesday that Republicans made a "very, very large mistake" and a "major strategic error" this week when they refused to take up the hundreds of amendments they originally had offered to Dodd's bill, prompting the partisan committee vote and setting up a battle over the details of the legislation as it heads to the Senate floor."

Posted by: shrink2 | March 24, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

"I have the sense that Republicans will be able to turn this into a bigger problem for Democrats than Democrats will for Republicans. All it takes are a few easy smears against Dodd and to remind people that they hate the Fed to send this bill down amidst broad populist outcry."

And this is what it's all about for rightwingers. What happens to our people is completely irrelevant. All sense of patriotism ad country has withered, now all that's lft is blind rage and a desire to 'win' at all costs. Doesn't matter that we need regulation of the behemoth global financial machine in order to prevent another meltdown -- this one worse.

All that matters to Rs is to smear the guy who's trying to solve the problem and f*ck america.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Chris - a good piece, as usual.

Just a couple observations, however:

First, while "opposition" to the bill was close to 1/2 the respondents of the various polls, I, again, invite you to take a look at that opposition.

I still maintain that almost as many people - if not more - opposed the bill because it did not go far enough as opposed it because of all the Tea Party hoo-ha.

While "the media" is an easy target, it also seems to be the case that they have become generally lazy and sloppy - especially in coverage of this issue.

The temptation of the easy story ("everyone is in the same place as far as opposition and that place is represented by the loudest and most obnoxious of the opponents") makes it so easy to come up with those 350 or so words due by 4 pm as opposed to doing some actual media things. You know - like thinking and investigating.

I think even you have sadly fallen into this trap from time to time - like in the case of what the polls are really saying.

I strongly believe that the polls have been showing all along that close to 60% of the respondents would support this bill given the choice of the bill as passed vs nothing being done.

The Republican base being excited is not nearly as important, in my opinion, as which direction the moderates are leaning.

If the GOP captures 100% of its base and loses, say, 55% the moderates they will lose the election. The Dems have a much larger base. 100% of the GOP base is about 50% of the Dems. Without the moderates no one wins the vote.

Finally, for all the excitement about Va, NJ and Mass, all 3 of the republicans ran as moderates. Va and NJ happened before the Tea Party hijacked the party and there were no purity tests.

Scott Brown may have the same yoke hung on him by the Tea Party and Obama has by some on the left - he is fantasized as the epitome of their point of view. While he won at a time of Tea Party fervor, he has legislated as a moderate republican his whole career.

Even Reagan ran a campaign aimed at being seen as a moderate.

The Tea Party, despite its remarkable PR abilities, is a rump political faction. In American history rump political groups succeeded in elections but have never been able to hold power for more than a moment.

Most people do not share the GOP House and Senate's hard-heartedness. I do not believe they are going to be rewarded for mere opposition, especially when their only alternative is tort reform and esoteric ideas aimed at the 10% who buy their own insurance.

90% of the insured have government or employer policies and I have to wonder if the average person can even relate to it.

Posted by: TOMMYBASEBALL | March 24, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

So blert, are you saying no Rs will vote for the bill? That was my point, that enough will to pass the bill.

Are you saying that won't happen? If you are wrong, if enough Rs do vote for the bill to pass it, why, or better, who would they be?

Posted by: shrink2 | March 24, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

The Republicans have a problem.
They have to get some of their members to vote for Dodd's financial reform package, but no one wants to be that person.

If they vote as a bloc against it however, they will be exposed as the party that tried to block any attempt to fix the problems that led to our 2007 disaster.

Posted by: shrink2

------------------------

LOL

Does anyone seriously think that Dodd's bill is going to fix what led to the housing disaster? Even Democrats are hesitant about voting for a bill written by Dodd. The man isn't running for reelection because in the wake of the collapse, he was found to be so bought out by Wall Street interests that he wasn't likely to get more than about 30% of the vote in his home state.

Add to this the fact that the bill proposes to expand the powers of the Fed into a vast regulatory role, even though many, many Americans blame the Fed for being one of the chief players leading up to the housing collapse, and it's hard to see how opposition to this bill will hurt anyone.

How long Dodd continues to remain political poison is up for grabs, but as long as this financial reform has his name on it and as long as expanding the Fed is the bill's signature action, I have the sense that Republicans will be able to turn this into a bigger problem for Democrats than Democrats will for Republicans. All it takes are a few easy smears against Dodd and to remind people that they hate the Fed to send this bill down amidst broad populist outcry.

Posted by: blert | March 24, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

This is what the TPers are morphing into. It's time for the MSM to stop coddling them:

'On Monday, Lynchburg Tea Party member Mike Troxel posted what he believed to be the home address of Rep. Tom Periello (D-VA), encouraging people to 'drop by.'


As Politico explained, the address Troxel posted was actually the address of Periello’s brother, who lives with his wife and four children under the age of eight.

After an 'incident' at the home which the FBI is investigating, ThinkProgress spoke to Troxel, who said he would “probably” still post Periello’s address.

After being told it was actually the brother’s address, he replied, “Oh well, collateral damage.”

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

While the Fix does his readers a disservice early in the piece (by mentioning the pre-passage opposition topline without acknowledging the significant percentage of respondents who thought the bill didn't go far enough), overall the points are reasonably made.

Passage of the bill will impact the November races firstly by restoring some of the lost confidence that Dems had a year ago. Secondly the Repubs are going to need to regroup; this 'repeal and reform' nonsense is going to slip away over the long recess. As will their petulant refusal to allow hearings after 2 PM (see Klein's blog this AM).

The other factor to watch is recruitment & primary outcomes. The Fix rightfully notes that the Dem base did not turn out in 2009 for the likes of Corzine, Coakley & Creigh. However, he over-attributes their electoral losses to problems with the party & under-attributes the weaknesses of the candidates. So to better predict this November's outcomes, we need to look closely at the parties' nominees. If Rand Paul wins the GOP primary in Kentucky, the Dem's chances of picking up that seat go up. Likewise in Florida, Rubio will be easier to beat than Crist. Of course, the Dems can't nominate doorknobs either, which is certainly a frequent mistake they make up here in MN (particularly for Gov, though the 2008 candidates in MN-3 & MN-6 weren't so hot either).

So, my view is that the jury's out. Passing healthcare will adjust each party's strategy going into Nov. Will Repubs try to attract moderate swing voters with reasonable candidates, or continue down the path of RINO purging and ideological purity, nevermind the electoral consequences? Will the Dems lose their confidence again, or will they use the HCR victory to retake the national dialogue about changing this country for the better?

I expect this inner beltway meme of this being a good year for Repubs is going to slowly fade away, as the electorate starts paying attention to what's been accomplished thus far during the Obama admin, and remembers what's at stake following the 2010 election.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 24, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

One set of allegations may survive - if not now, b/c of "ripeness" - later, if the law is not amended. These states are claiming that previously they were in a medicaid partnership which was at some level voluntary. Under this law, they will soon be forced into providing medicaid as mere conduits for the federal government. They will not have an "option".

Read those allegations beginning at Paragraph 31. Every lawyer here is welcome to chime in!

Posted by: mark_in_austin


-----------------------

This is a serious issue that might gain traction in courts. Especially since the federal government can only derive power to regulate insurance through the commerce clause, and since there is no interstate commerce allowed in insurance still under this bill, it's hard to see how the federal government can fully claim the powers that it is claiming. Certainly this goes for the voluntary participation of states in Medicaid, but it could also extend to the regulations on insurance companies themselves. If an insurer has no cross-state commerce, and is prevented from such by law, can the federal government actually regulate it?

Posted by: blert | March 24, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

drindl:

Rep. Stupak received death threats BEFORE he switched votes.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 24, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Sorry to keep bringing this up,
but economic news is political news.

The Republicans have a problem.
They have to get some of their members to vote for Dodd's financial reform package, but no one wants to be that person.

If they vote as a bloc against it however, they will be exposed as the party that tried to block any attempt to fix the problems that led to our 2007 disaster.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 24, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

The focus for November will be jobs and the economy. No one gets free health care for a couple of years (except for members of congress). If there continue to be numbers like today's record decline in new home sales, Nancy Pelosi will be packing her broom and flying back to the cave she came from.

Posted by: kenpasadena | March 24, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Chris, you missed the single most relevant fact about health care reform; it's done! Democrats can now move on to other issues including, importantly, jobs. Republicans who continue to whine, a) look like sore losers, b) are discussing yesterday's issue while the Democrats discuss tomorrow's issue. Advantage - Democrats.

All the political analyses of the post-health reform political landscape seem to overlook the extent to which, thanks to the tea party groups, Republicans have boxed themselves in on this issue. They have no choice but to try to keep it alive to pacify the teapers while the public moves on. I'm guessing Democratic losses in the fall are limited to the single digits in the House.

Posted by: jthomp1 | March 24, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Obama lied to us when he promised no special deals and that the changes would all be on C-Span! Nobody can even tell us about ALL the "Back Room" special deals that were cut to get this monster passed. Not even the Republicans can list them all. READ:

http://theohiolaborlawyers.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/can-anyone-list-all-the-special-deals-that-were-cut/

Only by publishing ALL the special deals can the Republicans hope to repeal and replace this bill.

Posted by: N369RM | March 24, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

That other thread is interesting. must chargrin CC -- lots of posts and running like 9 out of 10 against Bubblehead.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Ira, I think the various lawsuits are more on topic here. TX is part of this one:

http://www.texastribune.org/blogs/post/2010/mar/23/tribblog-read-abbotts-health-care-lawsuit/

[scroll down to get the .pdf which seemingly cannot be downloaded]. The VA suit is different in one respect and VA is not joined in this suit.

The trial court is in FL and I do not know that Judge, at all. But reading the suit I would guess most of it will not survive the Rule 12 Motion or a MFSJ.

One set of allegations may survive - if not now, b/c of "ripeness" - later, if the law is not amended. These states are claiming that previously they were in a medicaid partnership which was at some level voluntary. Under this law, they will soon be forced into providing medicaid as mere conduits for the federal government. They will not have an "option".

Read those allegations beginning at Paragraph 31. Every lawyer here is welcome to chime in!

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 24, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Actually, CC sounds very much like a fund-raising email i have gotten 8 times now in the last two days -- from john mccain.


'Yesterday, President Obama signed his massive government takeover of our health care system into law. This bill is terribly wrong for America and I call on you to join with me to challenge this bill in every way we can.'

yes, they are hilariously raising money for their campaigns from the idiots for promising to do something they cna't. and the rubes fall for it every time.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

"How many tools of CEOs does one blog need?'

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

from ezra's blog:

'Remember the hysteria. Remember the dire predictions. Nothing short of a Totalitarian Socialist Dictatorship!!! 80-85% of Americans will see no difference between now and election day. Destruction of America and Freedom!!!

Weeks, months will go by and America will still be here, free as ever ...except that more will have health insurance and fewer will have it taken away by insurance companies after they've paid for years and then gotten sick.

Those whackjobs who only listen to Glen "Social Justice Christians are really Commies" Beck on Fox will be digging Fox holes anticipating the overthrow of America by radical Socialist Muslims from Hawaii with degrees from Harvard Law and secret political training from the Institute of Chicago Machine Politics while the rest of America continues the recovery from 8 years of disastrous non-governing by the Republicans.'

Life goes on. Republicans become more and more annoying and irrelevant.

Posted by: thebobbob

Exactly. What Rs are deathly afraid of. Time will pass, people will see this is no big deal, they will start to like it and see that all that scare talk was just the usual republican politics of fear and anger and they will become more irrelevant than ever.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 12:40 PM | Report abuse

RAINBOWUSA wrote:

Chris,
You know Damn well, that about 14 percent of those who opposed the health care reform in past polls did so, because they thought it did not go far enough. That would mean that 54 percent were always for some kind of health care reform and you know it very well. why will you not report good news for the health care reform? you must let your readers know your agenda it certainly is not reporting FACTS.

******************************************
I could not agree more. The Post coverage, with the exception of Ezra Klein has been horrible. I get print copies of the New York Times, USA Today, and the Washington Post and read the print edition of the LA Times on line. Only the WaPo had a negative headline the day after passage.

The gallup poll out today is showing the swing of the "not far enough" to supporting the bill. Once the enormity of this sinks in and base realizes what a huge accomplishment this is, I think the enthusiasm will be back. I would take enthusiasm any day over anger. Angry people throw bricks through windows, call people names and spit on them, enthusiastic people tell you what they like and why you shoudl too. Who would you rather have out passing out your literature for 2010?

Posted by: Prosperity2008 | March 24, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

The WaPo these days is almost as rightwing as Fox. As one former employee excellent writer, Thomas Ricks [ their loss] commented recently, how many former Bush speechwriters does one newspaper need?

Posted by: drindl
-----------------------------------------
How many tools of the state does one blog need?

Posted by: leapin | March 24, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

The WaPo these days is almost as rightwing as Fox. As one former employee excellent writer, Thomas Ricks [ their loss] commented recently, how many former Bush speechwriters does one newspaper need?

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Can someone in the media actually fact check the idiot in chief. It turns out children with preexisting conditions can still be denied coverage under his law until 2014. why is he running around lying and saying that insurance companies cannot drop kids? Oh right, that is because he always lies.

Posted by: columbiaheights | March 24, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Far be it from me to give Republicans political advice but this clamor to "Repeal It!" while Barack Obama is still in office and would have to sign any bill repealing the freshly signed health insurance reform seems a little ... uhhh ... dumb?

But hey, guys, knock yourselves out.

I'm sure the taxpayers in your state will be really thrilled to see their tax dollars that could be spent on their healthcare or job creation being spent instead on frivolous lawsuits that have no chance of succeeding, right?

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

'1) It upstaged Obama on his biggest day, focusing attention on what the VP let slip rather than on the bill and the achievement of passing it.'

only for idiots who watch fox.

Posted by: drindl

------------------------

No, drindl, you're wrong. Yes, Fox News obsessed over the comment more than anyone else, but the NYT and WaPo also had front page links discussing the gaffe, and it has played all over the internet, in the foreign press, and on plenty of other American networks. ANYTHING that takes the focus away from the bill and from Obama's effort in passing it at a signing ceremony is a bad thing.

The fact that people in this thread are even talking about Biden's gaffe is proof that it was a distraction (and, no, I don't watch Fox News--I first saw the gaffe in WaPo coverage).

Posted by: blert | March 24, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

VP Biden is being treated as a gaffe.

Posted by: JakeD3 | March 24, 2010 12:24 PM | Report abuse

"repeal and reform" -- I can't believe Chris is presenting that as if it were something this GOP party is seriously considering.

"repeal and reform" is a ruse for the voters, Chris. Republicans had from 1994 to 2009 to bring forth the kinds of reforms their party believes in. They didn't do it. They don't want to do it. It is not in their interest to do it.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 24, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

why we do know is that it will only get uglier:

'Law enforcement authorities are investigating an incident that occurred at the Virginia home of Rep. Tom Perriello’s (D-Va.) brother, whose address was publicized by tea party activists angry at the congressman’s vote for the health care bill.

The FBI would not disclose the details of the incident, but said that they have been to the home.

“This is very preliminary at this point, so we’re not making any comment at this time,” local FBI spokesman M.A. Myers told POLITICO.

A spokesman for the Albemarle County Fire Marshal would not comment on whether they too are investigating the incident.

POLITICO reported on Monday that Mike Troxel, an organizer for the Lynchburg Tea Party, posted on his blog what he thought was the congressman’s address, encouraging tea party activists to “drop by.”

The address has since been posted on websites of at least one other local tea party activist.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34934.html#ixzz0j6zC4YOS

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Wait'll the costs start rolling up. Just another entitlement we can't afford

Posted by: ronjaboy | March 24, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

they keep getting uglier, margaret:

"As ThinkProgress has chronicled, the passage of health care reform has resulted in a series of vandalism incidents and threats aimed at lawmakers who voted for the bill. Vandals have struck the Tuscon office of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), the Monroe County Democratic Committee headquarters in upstate New York, Rep. Louise Slaughter’s (D-NY) Niagara Falls office, the Knox County Democratic headquarters in Ohio, and the Sedgwick County Democratic Party headquarters in Wichita, KS. Now, Politico reports that Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI), an anti-abortion Democrat who held out his support for the legislation until Sunday, has received phone calls threatening his life:

Stupak, the Michigan Democrat whose last-minute compromise on abortion guaranteed passage of the bill Sunday, said callers have left messages for him saying, “You’re dead; we know where you live; we’ll get you.”

“My wife still can’t answer the phone,” Stupak told POLITICO Tuesday. The messages are “full of obscenities if she leaves it plugged in. In my office, we can’t get a phone out. It’s just bombarded.”

Stupak, a former police officer, said he’s not fazed by the threats or by the prospect of protests at his district office this weekend. “I’ve looked down barrels of guns,” he said. “I’ve talked my way out of it.”

Politico also reports that “Rep. Dennis Cardoza, a Blue Dog Democrat from California, said he’s gotten physical threats over health care reform.” “There are some folks that identified themselves as being members of the tea party [who] called, [and] my staff has gotten to know their names over time, and they have been very loud and very ugly,” Cardoza said.

Additionally, the Capitol Hill newspaper notes that “Rep. Earl Pomeroy (D-ND) said he had to change his personal cell phone number after a Republican gave it out to health care opponents.” The chairman of the North Dakota Republican Party read Pomeroy’s cell phone number aloud on the stage of the North Dakota Republican convention."

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Cillizza: "Obama has hovered between 49 percent and 52 percent in Gallup data last fall; if passage of the bill can get him out of that territory and back at or above 55 percent for a sustained period of time.."

passage of the bill will do nothing. bump for obama is temporary. what about jobs? he has to face it sometime. economy here in california is terrible. i am one who is fortunate to have a business doing well. i see others not so fortunate. many businesses are closed. that's why boxer and brown are doing poorly and will lose. obama doesn't know what to do about jobs.

Posted by: doof | March 24, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

WOW Chris, Why don't you just go ahead and make it official and go to work for Palin's PAC. you are a GOP shill through and through.

Posted by: RAINBOWUSA

-----------------

I've read The Fix long enough to be amused by these comments. Two years back, CC was in Obama's back pocket, much to the disdain of Clinton fans, and later to McCain supporters. Once Obama won, Obama supporters immediately started calling CC a GOP shill.

Honestly, though, in an article that talks about the considerable positive coverage that the bill itself has received in the last two days (such as the various "here's what the bill can do for you" charts) and about the bump in popularity and confidence for Democrats, I'm not sure how you can pick out a few criticisms along with the positives and label someone as a partisan.

I guess it just goes to show your own partisan blinders more than anything else.

Posted by: blert | March 24, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

AndyR3, Boehner's efforts in the Senate today and tomorrow will make it clear that he is listening to no one. This business about blcoking reconcilliation is only going to pull the spotlight back on his failure.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 24, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

With Republicans running on repealing the health care bill they are no longer just the party of no. They are the party of anti-progress, wanting to undo what as survived their relentless opposition. It's a very risky strategy, because if the Democrats' proposals prove popular then they've made themselves irrelevant caricatures. Frankly, running on a pro-coverage denial, pro-lifetime limits, anti-tax credit platform seems a little silly, but what do I know?

Also, way to handpick your poll. Gallup's got the bill favored at 50 to 40 against.

Posted by: thecorinthian | March 24, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

'1) It upstaged Obama on his biggest day, focusing attention on what the VP let slip rather than on the bill and the achievement of passing it.'

only for idiots who watch fox.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse


POTUS, Congress: Now do the REAL health care reform:

Stop Ongoing Bush-Era Homeland-Led Atrocity Programs that Destroy American Lives, Livelihoods...

HOMELAND-RUN 'FUSION CENTERS' SILENTLY ASSAULT, TORTURE, IMPAIR, SUBJUGATE U.S. CITIZENS WITH CELL TOWER MICROWAVE WEAPON SYSTEM, FINANCIAL SABOTAGE, 'COMMUNITY WATCH' VIGILANTE DOMESTIC TERRORISM: VETERAN JOURNALIST

• How many thousands of Americans are silently attacked, tortured, impaired, "slow killed" each day by this covert nationwide weapon system camouflaged by cellular "communications" -- and how many operatives, agents and law enforcement officers are "authorized" to use it?

WHEN WILL CONGRESS, HIGH OBAMA OFFICIALS DEMAND THE TRUTH?

Where is the D.O.J. Civil Rights Division Investigation into this Federal-Local Torture Matrix?

http://nowpublic.com/world/u-s-silently-tortures-americans-cell-tower-microwaves
http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america
OR NowPublic.com/scrivener RE: "GESTAPO USA" (see "stories")

Posted by: scrivener50 | March 24, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

The 'repeal and reform' mantra isn't going to sell well no matter how they spin it and I think the smart GOP operatives know it. To think that you will be able to convince the public that people with pre-existing conditions should be taken off of Insurance is lunacy. The GOP let the most extreme elements of their party rule this issue and they now NEED to reign them in if they have any hope of being taken as a serious option for independents.

The problem with that is that they gave the extreme elements (Cheney, Palin, Demint, Armey, etc) so much power that the more calculating/smarter group (Cantor, Graham, Hatch, Paul Ryan etc) can't take it back. And with Michael Steele basically powerless at this point, I just dont' know who will stand up and refocus the party on the future. I can only see someone like Jeb Bush or maybe even President GW Bush to come out and make an appeal for calm in his party.

Posted by: AndyR3 | March 24, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

"Passion and, yes, even anger, are potent in campaign politics as the party with the more fired-up supporters tends to reap the benefits at the ballot box."

Which would be why NY CD23 went for the Democrat over the well-funded and loudly-backed Conservative?


And these bragged-about, worthless maneuvers in the Senate to bog-down the reconcilliation process on the HCR bill will just make the Republicans look like

a) tantruming babies
b) losers who don't know they lost
c) sneaky, finger-pointing politicians trying to use a bunch of back-door rules to block legislation
d) haters who don't want average Americans to have good health insurance
e) liars who would rather make mischief than make good legislation
f) all of the above

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 24, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Is what Biden said being treated as a gaffe?

Posted by: DDAWD

------------------------

I know that a lot of liberals are exuberantly hooting and hollering along with Biden's statement, but there are two reasons why this was a gaffe:

1) It upstaged Obama on his biggest day, focusing attention on what the VP let slip rather than on the bill and the achievement of passing it.

2) Teddy Roosevelt - The Square Deal
Franklin Roosevelt - The New Deal
Harry Truman - The Fair Deal
Barack Obama - The Big F-ing Deal

Is this really the label that Obama wants attached to his signature social program for posterity? Whether Obama likes the label or not, it might just stick.

Biden did Obama no favor with that comment.

Posted by: blert | March 24, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

"...so much spin, it's worth taking a step back..."

Might be a good idea, but then he goes on spinning the spin.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 24, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Is what Biden said being treated as a gaffe?

Posted by: DDAWD | March 24, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

All I've seen on the news is a steady drumbeat of 'death panels' 'pull the plug on grandma' 'baby killers' and other republican rubbish.

But I guess that's what you call positive. Next he'll be talking about 'the liberal media' as if it existed.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

yep.

'Can Democrats turn Republicans' call for repeal into opposition to popular parts of the bill like coverage for pre-existing conditions?'

that's precisely what we will be doing. wait until everyone who now has to buy their own insurance -- including small business -- gets a rebate of as much as 35% of the cost with their 2010 tax return.

repeal that.

Posted by: drindl | March 24, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Chris, don't you ever watch FOX? You are honestly telling me that FOX has provided positive press for the health care bill?

Posted by: DDAWD | March 24, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Chris,
You know Damn well, that about 14 percent of those who opposed the health care reform in past polls did so, because they thought it did not go far enough. That would mean that 54 percent were always for some kind of health care reform and you know it very well. why will you not report good news for the health care reform? you must let your readers know your agenda it certainly is not reporting FACTS.

Posted by: RAINBOWUSA | March 24, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

WOW Chris, Why don't you just go ahead and make it official and go to work for Palin's PAC. you are a GOP shill through and through.

Posted by: RAINBOWUSA | March 24, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

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