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The politics of health care passage

Even as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) scrambles for the 216 "yes" votes she needs to pass President Obama's health care reform bill later this week, strategists on both sides of the partisan divide have begun to debate the political impact of what passage will mean.

All sides agree that the overall bill is not particularly popular at the moment. Republicans ascribe that unpopularity to the fact that people know what's in the bill and don't like or want it. Democrats see the current poll numbers as evidence that they have lost the message war in the run-up to passage but once the bill moves through Congress and people become more educated about the legislation, the more they will like it.

The Fix laid our hands on a new polling memo from Democratic survey guy John Anzalone that details the results of a health care poll conducted in a whopping 92 Democratic districts -- a mix of top Republican targets, moderate/conservative Blue Dogs and rural seats -- and funded by several labor groups. (The full list of districts that were polled is after the jump.)

The main points of the Anzalone memo:

* Nearly six in ten (59 percent) of voters in these districts support the idea of reforming the health care system and roughly that same number believe that the changes need to be made now.

* While 42 percent of voters in these districts initially support the health care bill that number jumps to 51 percent "after hearing about some of the benefits of the plan."

* The best message arguments for Democrats to make in the wake of passage are: 1) the coverage of pre-existing conditions and 2) the fact that for the first time ever average people will be able to have the same health care plan as Members of Congress.

In sum, there's not much new under the sun here. For months, a majority of voters -- whether in national or district by district polling -- have opposed the overall bill. And, for those same months, some of the specific proposals within the legislation (pre-existing conditions being a prime example) have polled as extremely popular. (Post pollster Jon Cohen detailed that disconnect in a "Behind the Numbers" post last month.)

The debate -- really -- is over whether passage can (or will) fundamentally alter public opinion.

The White House has long believed that the answer to that question is "yes", arguing that passage/implementation will eradicate much of the misinformation about the bill and allow people to see the good it will do for the system -- developments that will lead to a broad re-consideration of the bill by the American public.

As evidence that that sort of thing can happen, Democratic strategists have taken to pointing to the Medicare prescription drug benefit passed in 2003 -- a piece of legislation that looked like Republicans' electoral Waterloo (with apologies to Sen. Jim DeMint) but turned into a net positive for the GOP once it was implemented.

Republicans reject the comparison between the two, noting that: a) the prescription drug bill didn't affect the whole population like the health care bill will b) the benefits of the prescription drug bill kicked in almost immediately while many of the most popular elements of the health care bill won't and c) there is far more strident opposition among electorally critical independents to the health care legislation than there was to the prescription drug benefit.

The more apt comparison for the health care bill, argued one Republican senior strategist, is to President George W. Bush's failed attempt to reform the Social Security system with the critical difference being that rank and file Republicans ultimately doomed that bill once they recognized its electoral unpopularity while the health care legislation continues to move toward passage despite the poll numbers.

What's clear: the burden of proof will be on the White House and Congressional Democrats to sell a passed bill to the public in a far more effective manner than they tried to sell the idea of a bill. (Sidenote: Given the need to immediately begin changing public perception about the bill if it passes this weekend, is anyone else surprised that President Obama appears to be going forward with his plan to travel to southeast Asia immediately after the House vote?)

One other complicating factor for Democrats: the rapidly approaching midterm elections. Assuming the bill passes the House on Saturday, there will be 227 days left before voters head to the polls on Nov. 2. That means a more abbreviated time line for the White House to sell the bill post-passage than they had pre-passage.

Passage of the bill seems -- to us -- near-inevitable given what the White House believes is at stake. But, passing the legislation may look like a cakewalk when compared to the task of reversing public opinion about the bill that Democrats will face between now and November.

Democratic districts included in Anzalone poll
AL-02
AR-01
AR-02
AR-04
AZ-01
AZ-08
CA-01
CA-11
CA-18
CA-20
CA-29
CA-36
CA-43
CA-47
CO-03
CO-04
CT-04
CT-05
FL-02
FL-08
FL-24
GA-02
GA-08
GA-12
GA-13
IA-03
ID-01
IL-08
IL-11
IL-14
IN-02
IN-08
IN-09
KS-03
KY-06
LA-03
MA-10
MD-01
ME-02
MI-01
MI-07
MI-09
MN-07
MN-08
MO-04
MS-01
MS-04
NC-11
NC-02
NC-07
NC-08
ND-AL
NH-01
NJ-03
NM-01
NM-02
NV-03
NY-13
NY-20
NY-23
NY-24
NY-25
NY-29
OH-01
OH-15
OH-16
OH-18
OH-06
OK-02
OR-04
OR-05
PA-10
PA-17
PA-03
PA-04
PA-08
SC-05
SD-AL
TN-04
TN-05
TN-06
TN-08
TX-17
TX-23
TX-28
UT-02
VA-11
VA-02
VA-05
VA-09
WI-08
WV-03


By Chris Cillizza  |  March 16, 2010; 11:37 AM ET
Categories:  Health Care , House  
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Comments

I am for this bill. No more pre existing conditions restrictions and so many more good and needed things are included in this bill. The rates keep skyrocketing while the insurance industry fat cats get rich and we all die without adequate coverage. There is no end in sight to their greed, the American people will regain control with this bill. As far as it not going far enough, well that may be true, but just getting this much passed first is far more important now as getting it this far is hard enough. To the Liberals, keep in mind, the parts that are missing can always be added later if need be, bills can be amended and improved upon once they pass. Let's just get it done and make history, support our President and Democratic country and values and move forward. This progress is better than no progress at all and falling to the Republican party of no, party of nothing, party of killing progress and killing America. Let's all support our President, our party, this life saving legislation and just get it done Democrats.

Posted by: Hillary08 | March 18, 2010 8:31 AM | Report abuse

Healthcare Corporations are a major link in the cash cycle: civilian, get a poor education by watching massive hours of TV, become lazy and fat, obese and unhealthy, get medications, goto hospitals, get insurance, get stressed, get divorced, get unemployed, get sick, eat more crappy food, get sick, get medicine, see doctor...CEO's make mucho money...the American way! Why can't anyone just say it plainly? The Republican Party works for corporate America. These politicians are simply lobbyists with government titles. Every time President Obama looks to tame industry, carbon levels, Wall Street, health insurance companies, and lobbyists, the Republicans, come riding to their collective rescue. It has been proven over and over again that they are the mantle holder for the wealthiest Americans. Their recent president almost destroyed our Country. They have completely duped the Christian community into thinking that they are God's choice, despite the clear indicators that they are not in any sense, good for this nation. There is only one answer; this Party clearly understands the power of propaganda. This is clearly seen in their control of media. I am appalled at the continued slandering of this President and his populace protecting agenda, they have the gall to claim the word “patriotic”. They called this Nation's elected President a liar on National Television, what a neat sound bite for the Republican distortion based machine. Distortion rhymes with extortion by the way. Make no mistake about it, “We the people...” do not run this nation, a wise populace can not keep pandering to corporate America's defiant and ultimate inner circle obstructionist's; The Republican Party. American's listen to me! That is their job, they are paid handsomely, oh, by our tax dollar's too!, to do what they do, to protect the nations elite, the untouchables.(The number one example is the Dick Cheney and Haliburton affair, the love is deep and unquestionable!) 97% of us are sacrificed for the peak dwelling 3%. Check the French Revolution! Stop being powerless! Get behind your President, stop listening to the “fear” mongers, tune them out, this man means to protect us, the 97%, you and I, the non-privileged. Republican's and corporate America have never been so hard pressed to create “fear” and “illusions”.

WAKE UP AMERICA, vastly intelligent and honest world leaders are far and few between.

Apocalyptic Ego Blizzard

Posted by: Novacancy13 | March 17, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Read up on the Weimar Republic (Germany) and Zimbabwe to see what happens to countries who print money with no assets behind their paper money. It is called hyperinflation and there is no escape for anyone rich or poor.

Consider the tax increases required to pay off the $80 trillion of unfunded liabilities for Social Security (which now spends more than it takes in), unfunded liabilities for Medicare as it exists today (which will flip in the all to near future like SS), unfunded liabilities for Veterans Benefits, the National Debt (bonds & notes), and US currency held abroad. Couple this with the projected deficit spending currently signed into law by BO, the proposed Obama Care and the increase in Debt servicing now 7% of our National Budget and projected to be 11% in 2 years. YOU GET $100 TRILLION!!!

Tell me who is going to pay for this:
• The big bad corporations? They just price taxes into the goods & services they sell otherwise they go broke – no profits, shareholders abandon ship. Is YOUR pension money in corp. stocks?
• The filthy rich? Forbes recent 400 richest (by assets) don’t hold $2 trillion. Confiscate it all and it won’t pay the interest & inflation on the US debt & unfunded liabilities for ONE year.

Only idiots and hard core communists do not think about this. Read what the Germans & Zimbabweans had to say about trying to survive.

Posted by: PRRWRITER | March 17, 2010 3:22 AM | Report abuse

Read up on the Weimar Republic (Germany) and Zimbabwe to see what happens to countries who print money with no assets behind their paper money. It is called hyperinflation and there is no escape for anyone rich or poor.

Consider the tax increases required to pay off the $80 trillion of unfunded liabilities for Social Security (which now spends more than it takes in), unfunded liabilities for Medicare as it exists today (which will flip in the all to near future like SS), unfunded liabilities for Veterans Benefits, the National Debt (bonds & notes), and US currency held abroad. Couple this with the projected deficit spending currently signed into law by BO, the proposed Obama Care and the increase in Debt servicing now 7% of our National Budget and projected to be 11% in 2 years. YOU GET $100 TRILLION!!!

Tell me who is going to pay for this:
• The big bad corporations? They just price taxes into the goods & services they sell otherwise they go broke – no profits, shareholders abandon ship. Is YOUR pension money in corp. stocks?
• The filthy rich? Forbes recent 400 richest (by assets) don’t hold $2 trillion. Confiscate it all and it won’t pay the interest & inflation on the US debt & unfunded liabilities for ONE year.

Only idiots and hard core communists do not think about this. Read what the Germans & Zimbabweans had to say about trying to survive.

Posted by: PRRWRITER | March 17, 2010 3:22 AM | Report abuse

Read up on the Weimar Republic (Germany) and Zimbabwe to see what happens to countries who print money with no assets behind their paper money. It is called hyperinflation and there is no escape for anyone rich or poor.

Consider the tax increases required to pay off the $80 trillion of unfunded liabilities for Social Security (which now spends more than it takes in), unfunded liabilities for Medicare as it exists today (which will flip in the all to near future like SS), unfunded liabilities for Veterans Benefits, the National Debt (bonds & notes), and US currency held abroad. Couple this with the projected deficit spending currently signed into law by BO, the proposed Obama Care and the increase in Debt servicing now 7% of our National Budget and projected to be 11% in 2 years. YOU GET $100 TRILLION!!!

Tell me who is going to pay for this:
• The big bad corporations? They just price taxes into the goods & services they sell otherwise they go broke – no profits, shareholders abandon ship. Is YOUR pension money in corp. stocks?
• The filthy rich? Forbes recent 400 richest (by assets) don’t hold $2 trillion. Confiscate it all and it won’t pay the interest & inflation on the US debt & unfunded liabilities for ONE year.

Only idiots and hard core communists do not think about this. Read what the Germans & Zimbabweans had to say about trying to survive.

Posted by: PRRWRITER | March 17, 2010 3:22 AM | Report abuse

Census time. Thick envelope.

YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW

heh heh heh

imagine the pulse rates in Wingnut Land.

...

"thought ah hearda chopper!"

Posted by: Noacoler | March 17, 2010 1:44 AM | Report abuse

me : Hi IM Donald

you: hi donald

me : And i voted for Obama

you: Im sorry

me : Me too

But realising how I was lied to helped me at the car lot so i had all the promises put in writing its called a car will we need one for Government Officials

Posted by: Donald03 | March 17, 2010 1:38 AM | Report abuse

Why is it that the US is the only developed nation that doesn't offer their citizens a national health service? And don't say it is because the US has the best health system in the world! According to the WHO the US is ranked 34th for health care, while other developed nations who do offer a national health service are ranked way ahead of the US. It has been proven in all of these countries that they can offer better health care for less money than the US spends on health care which is sub standard by international standards. In all of these countries, their governments would be voted out of office if they even dared tamper with their national health services, which, in simple English, means that the public prefers a national health service to one where they are charged a fortune for sub standard care and can't insure pre-existing conditions. Just look north of your own border and you will see why Sarah Palin's family preferred going, illegally, to Canada to enjoy better health care.

Posted by: sbeyl | March 17, 2010 1:34 AM | Report abuse

I'm curious about Intrade. Take the HCR contracts--if someone owns a contract and holds it all the way to the expiration date, who pays the contract holder? Or do the contracts HAVE to be sold to a buyer. If that's the case, the price on the contracts will never get to 100 or anything like that, since there will have to be a flood of selling to get out. Anyone know or have a guess?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 17, 2010 1:13 AM | Report abuse

Noacoler wrote: @shishi1: I call troll
---------------------------
Poor shi-shi, went to top University and THEN to graduate school. Obviously, he didn't take any writing courses in any of that graduate work, as he wrote the longest sentence I've seen, all without the benefit of punctuation. He follows the Sarah Palin school of grammar.

I was going to say "don't give up your day job", but it is already too late.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 17, 2010 1:00 AM | Report abuse

Message from 37thandZero: "my brain is fried from meth"

Posted by: Noacoler | March 17, 2010 12:53 AM | Report abuse

I'm a zillionaire, so I don't worry.

Of course, that's in Colones, so one does have to consider conversion factors.

Hasta luego, muchachos.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 17, 2010 12:51 AM | Report abuse

Abortion again? Yawn. Breathe into a paper bag until you calm down.

Abortion is a legitimate medical procedure, get over it. A fetus isn't a baby and a simple procedure makes a fingernail paring as much a potential human life as a blastula.

If you're against abortion then don't have one. Problem solved, busybody.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 17, 2010 12:46 AM | Report abuse

Fairlington


Don't you care about how much the health care bill is going to cost the country ?


It could bankrupt the nation in just a few years.


The accounting tricks are worse than Enron - there is a 3 trillion dollar deficit.

The thing is a complete nightmare.

It will have to be repealed.

It is a good question - who is a worse President - Obama or Hoover - both ignored the economy when things were going badly and prolonged the economic downtown.

How much more IRRESPONSIBLE CAN YOU BE WITH YOUR COUNTRY ???

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 17, 2010 12:39 AM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade

Forget it Farlington


I have a message to get out

The health care bill weighs more than a ton

About Obama you should not pout


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 17, 2010 12:35 AM | Report abuse

@shishi1: I call troll

you say you went to top schools.. after a letter-perfect recitation of lying GOP talking points and topping it off by laying blame for the recession at Obama's feet.

If you're for real I wish you all the best but this sounds like a minor variant on the Yusta Bee Democrat troll

Posted by: Noacoler | March 17, 2010 12:29 AM | Report abuse

I get paid $20 per bad limerick. [Hey, you try to find a rhyme for Obama that doesn't have an S in it.]

I used to do haiku for a living, but they only paid by the syllable. And I can't stand green tea.

Get some sleep, 37th. You need to be up early tomorrow morning.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 17, 2010 12:28 AM | Report abuse

No one wants no healthcare reform but they do not believe in THIS bill.
-----------------------------------
Reminds me of the guy standing on the corner, in the rain, waiting for the bus. So, I say to him, hey buddy, step up, here comes the bus.

No, he says, I'll wait for another bus. I don't like the look of this one. It's kind of dirty and the driver looks kind of dark-skinned.

Hey, Buddy, I say--there are no more buses tonight and look--it really raining and going to get worse.

He says, nah, I think I'll wait.

So, he waits and waits and waits, and 20 years later another bus comes, but by that time, it doesn't matter anymore.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 17, 2010 12:26 AM | Report abuse

I might have read through this too fast, but do you include the polls for those who are against federal funds going to abortion. It's 72%! Stupack is probably the most bipartisan part of the bill, but Pelosi and Obama don't want it because their main agenda with this bill is for us taxpayers to pay for abortions. Even Waxman said that if Stupack is included too many babies will be born. Does anyone else see how EVIL this bill is? In over 30 years the law has been no federal funds to abortion. This bill will be the biggest expansion of abortion since Roe vs. Wade. This of course is part of Obama's agenda. There's a dramatic increase in abortion facilities, billions to Planned Parenthood and to make sure more children die, they want us to pay for these abortions. And one of the worst parts, ELECTIVE ABORTIONS ARE NOT HEALTH CARE!

Posted by: bdchxbch | March 17, 2010 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Fairlington


they have you on late-night blog patrol ???


So you are a paid troll - attempting to astroturf the internet ???

Pathetic.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 17, 2010 12:21 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who voted for Obama did something EXTREMELY IRRESPONSIBLE WITH THIS COUNTRY


This country is hurting - and it is worse and worse by the day - because the White House is IGNORING THE ECONOMY AND JOBS.


Instead, Obama, a person who really should not be in the White House, is OBSESSED WITH AN EGO TRIP TO PASS SOME LEGISLATION WHICH WILL PROBABLY BE REPEALED.


It is a joke.


All Obama is doing is creating a debate - who was worse for the country Obama or Hoover ????


MEANWHILE, MILLIONS OF VOTERS REGRET THEIR VOTE FOR OBAMA - AND MILLIONS MORE BLAME THEM FOR VOTING FOR AN INEXPERIENCED PERSON - MAKING THE RECESSION EVEN WORSE.


People should wear "I'm sorry" stickers.


That would show everyone around them that they take personal responsibility for the disaster of Obama - and they are wiling to say "I'm Sorry."


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 17, 2010 12:20 AM | Report abuse

The present healthcare system:

The health insurance industry has decided to abandon the individual market. Insurance companies are refusing to sell insurance, at any price, to people with pre-existing conditions. These conditions include anyone who is taking a drug to reduce cholesterol, having allergies to pollen, ever taken anti-depressants, ever having had surgery, or even ever having been sick.

What other industry refuses to sell a product to customers who want to buy?

It's clear that the insurance industry has given up on the individual market. Now, they are raising premiums in this market by 39% this year to force out even more of these customers. In a few years, there just won't be enough customers in the individual market, and then they'll just drop the rest.

The only market the insurance companies are interested in is the employer market. It's more profitable for the insurance companies to serve employers because they get thousands of customers every time they sell a new employer on their products.

People who think the present system is ok, should think about this.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 17, 2010 12:13 AM | Report abuse

There once was a Prez named Obama
Whose wife was a really hot mama
They had two cute girls
And traveled the world
Look! There he is on a llama.

I'll be here alllllllllllll night, folks!

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 17, 2010 12:09 AM | Report abuse

People may agree with parts of the bill but isn't that the point Republicans are making? No one wants no healthcare reform but they do not believe in THIS bill. They believe too many side deals have been made and this bill overall is not good for the country. It is not a positive change in healthcare. We all want change so rather than jamming through something that is full of black mails, bribes, and side-deals that make America worse off which is hard enough to believe, we need to start over and include the things even if it is much smaller that we all can agree on i.e. preexisting conditions nixed, regulating increasing costs that go to insurance company profits rather than patient or doctor's that deserve them, allowing purchase of insurance across state lines, and of course tort reform which is not even in this bill. I really can't believe what is happening to this country. We are losing our democracy. People always make fun of Chicago tactics but has America really turned that much on its head?

And on the economy-I graduated at the top of my class from a top 20 University and went to one of the best graduate schools in the world. I had a great job right out of college (2005) and never had trouble finding and receiving many offers until the recession hit me --for over a year, I have been unemployed. What has Obama done? What is Obama doing for those who worked hard, got a degree, and can't find a job? I see lots of construction with Obama's stimulus plan on it. Is that what I should be doing? This is not FDR's time Mr. Obama--most of us are not big strong men with the capability or desire to build roads. What do you have for us TODAY?

Posted by: shishi1 | March 16, 2010 11:39 PM | Report abuse

It is truly amazing how Obama a smart man or its seems that way has painted himself into a corner. He loses no matter which way the health care bill goes.
If the dems ram it through with a vote in the senate, there will anger that will destroy the rest of his term. If it passes, he will go against the will of the people who don't like this bill. We all want health care revised. Making specials deals while unpopular, is a way in Washington which needs to stop is not what the people want. Unions once good now killing the country, get special treatment. Govt. workers get special treatment. Well Mr President, we will give you special treatment. You'll be out in 2012 with a dark legacy.

Posted by: dbonade | March 16, 2010 11:39 PM | Report abuse

It is truly amazing how Obama a smart man or its seems that way has painted himself into a corner. He loses no matter which way the health care bill goes.
If the dems ram it through without a vote in the senate, there will anger that will destroy the rest of his term. If it passes, he will go against the will of the people who don't like this bill. We all want health care revised. Making specials deals while unpopular, is a way in Washington which needs to stop is not what the people want. Unions once good now killing the country, get special treatment. Govt. workers get special treatment. Well Mr President, we will give you special treatment. You'll be out in 2012 with a dark legacy.
Jimmy Carter however will be a very happy man knowing you Mr President has taken his place

Posted by: dbonade | March 16, 2010 11:39 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who voted for Obama did something EXTREMELY IRRESPONSIBLE WITH THIS COUNTRY

This country is hurting - and it is worse and worse by the day - because the White House is IGNORING THE ECONOMY AND JOBS.

Instead, Obama, a person who really should not be in the White House, is OBSESSED WITH AN EGO TRIP TO PASS SOME LEGISLATION WHICH WILL PROBABLY BE REPEALED.

It is a joke.

All Obama is doing is creating a debate - who was worse for the country Obama or Hoover ????

MEANWHILE, MILLIONS OF VOTERS REGRET THEIR VOTE FOR OBAMA - AND MILLIONS MORE BLAME THEM FOR VOTING FOR AN INEXPERIENCED PERSON - MAKING THE RECESSION EVEN WORSE.

People should wear "I'm sorry" stickers.

That would show everyone around them that they take personal responsibility for the disaster of Obama - and they are wiling to say "I'm Sorry."


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 16, 2010 11:03 PM | Report abuse

'Please seek help.


And try not to hurt anyone.

.
Posted by: 37thand0street '

yes, 37, poor burnout, do that.

Posted by: drindl | March 16, 2010 11:00 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


Are you still trying to tell Chris what to write?


Leave Chris alone.


Your desire to control everyone around you is now extending to have you experience grandiose delusions that you should have control over the editorial decisions of the Washington Post.


Please seek help.


And try not to hurt anyone.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 16, 2010 10:47 PM | Report abuse

oh, I can't
good night

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 9:57 PM


Shrink2, you must "be frozen into the ice of our indifference," as 12BB just said. Good night to you too.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Had I known politics
had it mattered
all powerful souls
lost in power
Obama


oh, I can't
good night



Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 9:57 PM | Report abuse

Let us err trying to solve the huge problem of our broken healthcare system than to be frozen into the ice of our indifference.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 16, 2010 9:36 PM


12BB, what is it with everyone trying to be poetic tonight? Did I miss something?

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 9:49 PM | Report abuse

I am shocked.
After all of this time,
Republicans just say the same thing.

Socialism. It is as if it were the plague.

Well they do also say it will cost more,
but that was and is a foregone conclusion*

*predicting the tide, for example.

Ok. You people, you just line up and pay.

Either way, now Americans are going to stand in line and pay more. Remember, you and yours all get sick and die.

Or you could look at socia....bzzzt twfft

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 9:46 PM | Report abuse

drivl:

Should we take a collection to get her to ex patriate sooner?

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 16, 2010 9:42 PM | Report abuse

Lookit, I was trying to be poetic!

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 9:33 PM


Shrink2, you're poetic, very charming, and a sweet man. Honestly.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 9:40 PM | Report abuse

For those of us who think FDR was a great and courageous President, who fought for the ordinary citizen and made a huge positive difference in lives of regular folks for generations, including our own, he said:

"Governments can err, Presidents do make mistakes, but the immortal Dante tells us that divine justice weighs the sins of the cold-blooded and the sins of the warm-hearted in different scales. Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference."

Let us err trying to solve the huge problem of our broken healthcare system than to be frozen into the ice of our indifference.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 16, 2010 9:36 PM | Report abuse

Yeah zouk the gym across from my house is air conditioned.  Dunno why that’s a matter of such fascination to you, but hey, whatever keeps you going.
 
Last time I was there I got in a workout in a public gym without AC, and had to take three showers in 40 minutes.  The climate is really hot .. but the men are hotter. 
 
Anyway, I doubt you exercise.  Probably take the elevator down one floor.  And I bet you’re a smoker.  Sure you are.  Taking care of one’s health is for liberals, right?
 
Have a nice morning hack, polutee.
 
Off to the gym.  No AC here, not for months.  But then I’m still living in the free-market USA.  Not much longer. 
 
Noacoler
TTFN, các bạn

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Lookit, I was trying to be poetic!

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 9:33 PM | Report abuse

Still Barak is the President, he is having sex with Michelle in the White House.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 9:23 PM


Does he use a condom?

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Pelosi's newest advice to democratic House members on Health Care Bill:

Don't ask, don't tell!

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

A few young years ago people predicted Obama would never become the President, now he is also The Commander in Chief of the super strong Presidency of United States of America.

He is the most powerful man in the world.

lo hear the terrible consequences should the Health Industry Stimulus money pass from your Congress

Still Barak is the President, he is having sex with Michelle in the White House.

Birthers,
we understand.

We'll bleed, no matter what.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

I Baracck Obama do declare that the first of April shall heretofor be called Barry's day and hereby set a deadline for passage of my giant health care takeover.

If that doesn't work out, we can try another day later in the year, as usual.

Posted by: drivl | March 16, 2010 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Back on topic, Obama's latest "deadline" to pass this bill was March 18th. Did that get pushed back?

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 16, 2010 8:58 PM


JakeD, if you don't have a clue on what to do about the economy and jobs, wouldn't you keep pushing the date back to keep everyone preoccupied on worthless bills?

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Ped: who's that clip clomping on my bridge?

It's I, the first billy goat gruff.

Ped: Economics is magic. Only trust gold. and communist countries that advertise nutrition and have air conditioned gyms.

Posted by: drivl | March 16, 2010 9:09 PM | Report abuse

Jake shut the f uck up and go away. Your troll is worm out and tired and nobody wants to read this birther s hit anymore.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

Dems bungle another one. The nails for the Health Care Coffin are here.

"Deem And Pass Strategy Rendered Useless By Right-Wing Noise Machine"

http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/03/16/deem-and-pass-strategy-rendered-useless-by-right-wing-noise-machine/

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

The problem with the health care bill is that it usurps the free market
 
==
 
Uh, wow.  It’s hard to believe sometimes what it takes for some people to learn.
 
What does the free market have to do, bludgeon you over the head and stick a knife between your ribs?  Are you serious?  Don’t you understand that the reason our healthcare costs so much and fails to reach so many people is because it’s market-based instead of outcome-based?
 
Yeah, free markets are great at making things cheap … mostly our lives.
 
Count yourself out.  You’re completely demented.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 8:58 PM | Report abuse

Back on topic, Obama's latest "deadline" to pass this bill was March 18th. Did that get pushed back? I'm not surprised that The One appears to be going forward with his plan to travel to southeast Asia immediately after the House vote. Hopefully his (Indonesian?) passport is revoked while he is abroad.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 16, 2010 8:58 PM | Report abuse

Destroy millions of jobs?

---------------------------------
I don't get it. How can millions of Americans buying insurance and then getting decent, appropriate medical care, cost millions of jobs? Wouldn't insurance companies have to hire people if the ranks of the insured grow? Wouldn't the healthcare industry have to grow to absorb newly insured people accessing care. Wouldn't docs and clinics and laboratories have more business, not less?

Maybe emergency room would be less crowded, and maybe they would need few people. But, millions of jobs lost in ER's? Doesn't seem right to me.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 16, 2010 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Shrink2, no offense, but sometimes I think you're related to Scrivener. Please tell me I'm wrong.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 8:53 PM | Report abuse

"The problem with the health care bill is that it usurps the free market. It will destroy millions of private sector jobs. The government will hire millions of new government workers all members of SEIU and grateful Democrat voters."

It is good some downwardly mobile Americans took the time to buy a 'puter after getting enough of an education to post this. S/he probably "graduated".

Still the government will not hire millions of new workers if the Health Industry Stimulus passes. Talk about a side effect, the nasty SEIU will get "workers", but millions? Why do the wing nuts undermine the legitimate points the have?

Destroy millions of jobs?

The *vast right wing conspiracy* has to get a civics and literacy campaign going.

They have the denial and rage all figured out, they just don't make sense.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Obama now says he will not campaign for anyone voting no on the Health Care Bill.

Wow, the dems are scratching their heads on this one, thinking, "is that I have to do to keep him out of my state?" Done!

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Can we have some more advice about pregnancy and abortion from the gay man.

Is there no subject this pedant is not an expert on?

Posted by: Moonbat | March 16, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse

So for the record the Obama plan to reform the Health Care Industry is needed by all Americans ...

Posted by: carlapattonFreedomJournal | March 16, 2010 8:35 PM


Carla, it's not April Fools day yet. Come back in a few weeks with your post.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

@noa,

I am seriously thinking of buying a contract (can't buy much, very lightly traded). The only thing I'm a little nervous is the term "formally" announce a run.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 16, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

moonbat/drivel/king of zouk--

some of us are wanting to know more about your photography career -- monicka and christelle and courtney say such nice things.

Posted by: drindl | March 16, 2010 8:39 PM | Report abuse

Clyburne now says there may not be a vote on health care until after Easter. Great! Wait till the townhallers get hold of their representatives during the recess. The poor dems may retire on the spot.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Intrade has a futures contract: Sarah Palin to formally announce a run for President before midnight ET on 31 Dec 2011. Present trading indicates a 58% chance of Mrs. Palin announcing a run.

Seems like a pretty good long at 58. Of course, that's just ANNOUNCING a run.

==

OH GOD YES!!!

Perot times ten. Either she carries half the GOP vote off a cliff or she gets the nomination and loses 46 states.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 8:36 PM | Report abuse

The bottom line is that some people do not have proper Health Care. In fact many that actually have lucrative insurance policies are at risk due to a Health Care System that cares very little about patient care and more about the economics of the entire situation.

So for the record the Obama plan to reform the Health Care Industry is needed by all Americans not just those poor folks that many people in this country care very little about. So how can this be achieved?

First of all we have to admit we have a problem. But most that are sold-out to greed and class consciousness that leans on the rich and upper middle-class do not believe we have a problem. Better still they may be a part of the problem and don’t realize that Reform will help them in Good Health but not in their pocketbooks.

Peace,
Poor FreedomJournal but Rich in God

Posted by: carlapattonFreedomJournal | March 16, 2010 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Intrade has a futures contract: Sarah Palin to formally announce a run for President before midnight ET on 31 Dec 2011. Present trading indicates a 58% chance of Mrs. Palin announcing a run.

Seems like a pretty good long at 58. Of course, that's just ANNOUNCING a run.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 16, 2010 8:33 PM | Report abuse

That is not a "lie ... snark, paranoia, revenge talk, [or] unhinged prediction", just the simple truth. Obama promised it wouldn't, and if it does, there will be blood.

==

the only blood that will flow with funded abortion is that of the moon, monthly, as menstruation resumes after terminated pregnancy.

Poor dumb b astard needs some attention... spill your own blood, cretin

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 8:31 PM | Report abuse

Where's Mr Dawd at tonight? I know he's out there. Someone tell Dawd I'm still waiting for him to tell me when this up-or-down vote will be. He promised last night.

Hellooooooo. Are you there, Dawd?

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Assuming that abortions are not funded via Obamacare, what it will REALLY cost:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/12/news/economy/debt_health_care.fortune/index.htm

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 16, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Barry going on Fox tomorrow.

Talk about desperate.

Clearly still doesn't have the votes.

Liberal loser.

Posted by: Moonbat | March 16, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

And speaking of unhinged predictions, look at what tyrd just floated by. The "Palin will be President" nutjob.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 8:27 PM | Report abuse

That is not a "lie ... snark, paranoia, revenge talk, [or] unhinged prediction", just the simple truth. Obama promised it wouldn't, and if it does, there will be blood.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 16, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse

The virulent strain of liberalism known as the Ped must be crushed and exposed for the pedantic machinations that it is. We offer no quarter to a loon who thinks capitalism is wrong, Vietnam is the superior way, and such moronic notions such as our health care can be solved with Psa s.

Our army is improper, our economics is voodoo, etc.

And her hobby is stalking children

join me in ridding the blog of this menace. It is like an infestation of rats or other vermin. Do you feel bad about ridding the nursery of thus parasite?

Posted by: Moonbat | March 16, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Breaking: it’s only Tuesday
 
http://tinyurl.com/2fjqh2
 
“Tuesday's arrival stunned a nation still recovering from the nightmarish slog that was Monday, leaving some to wonder if the week was ever going to end, and others to ask what was taking Saturday so goddamn long.”
 
“Reports that this all has to be some kind of sick joke could not be confirmed as of press time.”

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

If Obamacare funds abortions, there will be another Civil War.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 16, 2010 8:23 PM | Report abuse

From the HCR opponents: snark, paranoia, revenge talk, unhinged predictions, and, of course, lies, lies, lies.

But the latter is a given since most are Republicans.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 8:20 PM | Report abuse

Why is it that only Nancy Pelosi gets to pass the health care bill? And just her bill? Don't the rest of us count?

Posted by: 45upnorth | March 16, 2010 7:27 PM

You've heard of The Golden Rule - He Who Has the Gold, Makes the Rules.

Pelosi's has a different version of this - She Who Has the Botox, Makes the Rules.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 8:14 PM | Report abuse

greatgran,

No disrespect meant, but I don't consider it proof that some bad thing is in the bill, if you can't provide the language that it IS in the bill. You said that getting some kind of medical insurance will result in a 40% penalty... and that personal accounts will be debited by someone without your knowledge and if not, would be thrown onto Medicaid with a bunch of illegals... Where does it say that?

Or that dialysis could be discontinued...

I'm sorry, for me to believe that is in the bill, I would have to SEE the language myself, with my own eyes, and even then I would have to confirm it.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 16, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Hoyer said that "the process" is not important to the American people. Holder said "we will be reading Miranda rights to the corpse of Osama bin Laden."

So the process is not important for the health care vote but it is very important for bin Laden's corpse? Typical liberal hypocrisy.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

The Fix will begin in Novemeber 2010 and then into 2012. That is a promise!

Posted by: vsch47 | March 16, 2010 8:01 PM | Report abuse

12barblles, How do you know those things are not in the final bill? They were each in one form of the bill of the day. Please explain what is in the final bill. Inquiring minds want to know since these clowns who preach transparency have little if any. I am not angry with you, just frustrated with what they have done.
I was responding to one of the posts who seems to have no clue what this government take over would mean.
I think in all honestly we need some regulation of the insurance industry. I am furious about is this massive expensive invasive takeover of one sixth or more of our economy which is insanity and totally unnecessary. And then to add insult to injury they are tacking on a takeover of government student loans from private industry. This is madness. This is frightening. These people are drunk with power and need to go home in the next elections. If they try to pass it with out a vote we can fight that on unconstitutional grounds. Make no mistake, we will fight it.

Posted by: greatgran1 | March 16, 2010 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone notice that Mr Cillizza's list (above) of democratic districts included in the poll looks like a posting from 37? It took me at least five page-downs to get to the comments section. What's going on?

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

I'm surprised you read his posts. Most of us PgUp when one of his monikers scrolls into view. It's always the same; mockery, derision, and foaming hate. You should work on your time management.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 7:42 PM
-------------------------------
noa, I read his posts when they have to do with you.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 16, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Hello everyone. Is the Health Care bill dead yet? Looks like a lot of you libs will be eating crow soon. Get some napkins. Broadwayjoe says they're on sale at piggly-wiggly.

By the way, I heard Obama will be delaying his trip again. It has nothing to do with the Health Care bill this time. The Air Force One pilot said he can't fly the plane anymore because all that remains is a left wing.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | March 16, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Is delusional the snazzy new liberal word du jour?

Posted by: thebink | March 16, 2010 7:38 PM
--------------------------
Actually, bink, it was greatgran who used the word delusional. But a delusion are defined as a fixed belief that is either false, fanciful, or derived from deception.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 16, 2010 7:53 PM | Report abuse

What's up with this gay baiting? I'd like to think you're better than that. Come on, man, you know taunting someone because of being gay has nothing to do with the world of ideas. I can't even quite figure out what you're saying, but it has a really ugly tone.

==

what the.. ?!? You aren't new here, 12Bar; drivl isn't "above" anything. He's been doing this pedophilia stuff close to a year. Remember vinyl LPs? When they skipped?

I'm surprised you read his posts. Most of us PgUp when one of his monikers scrolls into view. It's always the same; mockery, derision, and foaming hate. You should work on your time management.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 7:42 PM | Report abuse

Is delusional the snazzy new liberal word du jour?

Posted by: thebink | March 16, 2010 7:38 PM | Report abuse

"Unpopular" . . . that's interesting. If these people pass this bill, We the People (the governed for those who don't know who that is) will oust them and tear this bill down to its last nut then rework it into what it should have been. The Democrat party will be destroyed.

Posted by: Bender2 | March 16, 2010 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Rolls is nice. I like a LotUS.

Posted by: tossnokia | March 16, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Why is it that only Nancy Pelosi gets to pass the health care bill? And just her bill? Don't the rest of us count?

Posted by: 45upnorth | March 16, 2010 7:27 PM | Report abuse

@greatgran,

I've been pondering whether to respond to your post and how to respond. You might be interested in how someone who supports HCR understands your post. If I believed what you believe, I would be against the bill, too. But, your beliefs seem delusional to me. I can't understand where you get these ideas. Do you have proof?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 16, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

If the bill passes one can assume that Obama will declare victory. But it will be a hollow one. Why ? Simply because it wont be a landslide and because about 50% of Americans dont understand the bill and therefore cannot fully appreciate if it is good for the country. Will it save the Democrats at the Mid term elections ? I dont think so. And there will be problems down the road as loopholes appear in the bill and
people begin to see its downside. I continue
to think that the President made a mistake
in potically betting so heaviliy on his Healthcare reform. His priorities are upside down. It it blatant that the two main issues are 1) Unemployment. 2) The danger of another 9/11 due to Israel's refusal to bulge. Obama's gamble could not be higher ! Did he listen to the recent congressional hearing about the odds of the U.S suffering another major attack within the next 3/6 months ? All heads of all security agencies ( I repeat ALL ) said there is such a risk ! Will Obama waiy to see American blood be spilt
again on U.S soil before he brings Israel
down to its knees ? If he does he is done
and I might add dervedly so. He could have
left Healtcare on a back burner, tackled the two issues I mentionned and then come
back to Healthcare Reform.

Posted by: jeanpierregamet | March 16, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Why is Nancy Pelosi the only one that gets to pass the health care vote? Why is it just her bill being considered? Don't the rest of us count?

Posted by: 45upnorth | March 16, 2010 7:25 PM | Report abuse

If the bill passes one can assume that Obama will declare victory. But it will be a hollow one. Why ? Simply because it wont be a landslide and because about 50% of Americans dont understand the bill and therefore cannot fully appreciate if it is good for the country. Will it save the Democrats at the Mid term elections ? I dont think so. And there will be problems down the road as loopholes appear in the bill and
people begin to see its downside. I continue
to think that the President made a mistake
in potically betting so heaviliy on his Healthcare reform. His priorities are upside down. It it blatant that the two main issues are 1) Unemployment. 2) The danger of another 9/11 due to Israel's refusal to bulge. Obama's gamble could not be higher ! Did he listen to the recent congressional hearing about the odds of the U.S suffering another major attack within the next 3/6 months ? All heads of all security agencies ( I repeat ALL ) said there is such a risk ! Will Obama waiy to see American blood be spilt
again on U.S soil before he brings Israel
down to its knees ? If he does he is done
and I might add dervedly so. He could have
left Healtcare on a back burner, tackled the two issues I mentionned and then come
back to Healthcare Reform.

Posted by: jeanpierregamet | March 16, 2010 7:24 PM | Report abuse

If the bill passes one can assume that Obama will declare victory. But it will be a hollow one. Why ? Simply because it wont be a landslide and because about 50% of Americans dont understand the bill and therefore cannot fully appreciate if it is good for the country. Will it save the Democrats at the Mid term elections ? I dont think so. And there will be problems down the road as loopholes appear in the bill and
people begin to see its downside. I continue
to think that the President made a mistake
in potically betting so heaviliy on his Healthcare reform. His priorities are upside down. It it blatant that the two main issues are 1) Unemployment. 2) The danger of another 9/11 due to Israel's refusal to bulge. Obama's gamble could not be higher ! Did he listen to the recent congressional hearing about the odds of the U.S suffering another major attack within the next 3/6 months ? All heads of all security agencies ( I repeat ALL ) said there is such a risk ! Will Obama waiy to see American blood be spilt
again on U.S soil before he brings Israel
down to its knees ? If he does he is done
and I might add dervedly so. He could have
left Healtcare on a back burner, tackled the two issues I mentionned and then come
back to Healthcare Reform.

Posted by: jeanpierregamet | March 16, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

You're right, greatgran. Much of your comment is delusional. Care to cite the language that ties social security checks to end of life counseling?

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 16, 2010 7:20 PM | Report abuse

A lot of middle aged losers looking to inherit old Mom and Dad's money, had better start saving for themselves. Offshore clinics will pop up to service the elderly that can afford the care they won't get here.

Posted by: thebink | March 16, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Ok I am a conservative and I will explain what is being taken over by the government. They are creating with this bill 116 new government agencies. These jobs will be replacing private sector jobs.
And for pathetic fools who think government has to warm your kool aid before bed, these bureaucratic morons will be deciding what procedures will be paid for and if you use a procedure of their choosing, you will be taxed. They will require anyone over 65 to attend End of Life counseling every five years or you will not get your social security. The government will require you to have a basic worthless plan with extremely low limits and if you want a better plan actually worth having, then you will be fined 40 percent. If you have personal financial accounts, the government will be able to access those accounts to take out what they deem you owe them. Your medical records will be on a National Registry for any bureaucratic moron to view at their wish and whim. The people who do not have money the government can access will be thrown with illegals into medicaid and you and I will pay for them on the state level. Our Federal taxes will increase as well. If you are unfortunate enough to be on medicare, you will see doctors fleeing not wishing to do all that paperwork for free. They are culling 500 billion of waste and fraud but have had a year and have not done it yet and why do they think they can now.. The elderly will be where the serious rationing will be done. it has to for the good of all. A question to ask is when will they cease paying for dialysis. You might be shocked. Your doctor will be guided by the "Committee" on what procedures he can order. And all those sweetheart deals you thought were taken out are still in there.
There is no cost reform in this pathetic bill. They lie about the cost. The doctors fees are separated into an additional bill to appear there is less cost. This bill is not worth the freedom they are asking us to sacrifice.
Our family does not want this garbage. This is delusional and we think the people attempting to push this down our throats are incredibly evil.

Posted by: greatgran1 | March 16, 2010 7:06 PM | Report abuse

@drivl,

What's up with this gay baiting? I'd like to think you're better than that. Come on, man, you know taunting someone because of being gay has nothing to do with the world of ideas. I can't even quite figure out what you're saying, but it has a really ugly tone.

12BB

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 16, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

conservativemaverick


After voters hear about the actual costs, the taxes, and the unfunded deficits in the plan, support drops like a stone.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 16, 2010 6:53 PM | Report abuse

The Ped has a queen juice bar answer for everything. Unfortunately, most of that "humor" has been obsolete for years. think 80's gay bar with all the sass and entitlement.

the Ped should return to his bridge and guard his horde of gold, there are billy goats on the horizon.

and as far as the shower goes, the Ped should choose between the Anthony hopkins verions, wearing a dress and stalking with a knife (traditional liberal) and the modern version - going commando like Rahm and simply confronting them in the buff.

Posted by: drivl | March 16, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Quite a while since the Tundra Tramp was in the news; astonishingly long since this blog had a puff piece about her. Just some hand-wringing about "chillbilly" and "wild Alaskan dingbat."

Please let us be through with her.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Great! A poll of Californians! A state that is bankrupt because of liberal policies similar to the one they now want for the whole country. So that the whole country can go bankrupt along with them. No wonder the state is losing its' productive people.

Posted by: chollis8326 | March 16, 2010 6:36 PM | Report abuse

I'd shoot myself of i were you. I'm not you. What a nation of bamboozlers and utter frauds. Should have USAF just nuke the entire clusterfuk.

Posted by: tossnokia | March 16, 2010 6:32 PM | Report abuse

* While 42 percent of voters in these districts initially support the health care bill that number jumps to 51 percent "after hearing about some of the benefits of the plan."

======================

Laughable. Most of the so-called benefits are in fact shams. In addition, those numbers would plummet if the corruption in the bill was thoroughly explained to those surveyed. Wouldn't it be nice if there weren't an opposition. If the only information the American people received about the bill was the propaganda from the Obama administration.

Posted by: conservativemaverick | March 16, 2010 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Those aren't "scholars," leapin. They're apologia writers trying to dumb down history for cretins who can't handle the fact that the right tends toward totalitarianism.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Ped hasn't had this much attention since the pole dance on Halloween at the queen juice bar.

Finally some friends you don't have to inflate.

Posted by: Moonbat | March 16, 2010 6:20 PM | Report abuse

I'm going by accepted definitions of political nomenclature, not by what it "sounds like" to some half-educated right-wing cretin

Posted by: Noacoler
------------------------------------------
Some scholars argue that socialism and fascism are essentially the same. Mussolini said that Italy's system could be called either state socialism or capitalism with bureaucrats controlling the economic activities of the nation.

Posted by: leapin | March 16, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Fascism is an ugly word, bad, bad bad. When people like Noacoler hear an ugly word, they immediately apply it to Conservatives regardless of it's definition. The best I heard on a blog so far is "Bush the Bolshevik", LOL. Naocoler, read a book now and then, you may learn something and it just might calm you down.

Posted by: thebink | March 16, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Ask Nancy why the minimum wage has an exemption for American Samoa.

Most corrupt pol three years running - judicial watch.

Posted by: Moonbat | March 16, 2010 6:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm going by accepted definitions of political nomenclature, not by what it "sounds like" to some half-educated right-wing cretin

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler: The "corporatism" advocated by fascism and nazism (NOT the same things) is not related to the word "corporation" as in a business entity.

It is related to the word "corporeal" as in a body. Fascists and Nazis thought that the nation was like a body, with the various institutions its organs. Just like a body, the state can only be healthy when all the organs work together.

Again, sounds like a liberal idea to me!

In fact, Nazi party platform would have been very amenable to most liberals, except for the invading the world part. (Oh, yeah, and you have to substitute blaming the Jews for everything with blaming straight, white Christian men for everything!)

Posted by: pmendez | March 16, 2010 6:01 PM | Report abuse

@thebink: Fascism is totalitarianism of the right. You're a right-winger. Mussolini was one if yours.

Fascism is the union of state and corporate power. That sure sounds like the GOP to me.

Posted by: Noacoler
------------------------------------------
Sounds like Obama's crony capitalism to me.
A statist is a statist.

Posted by: leapin | March 16, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Quote-Moonbat
"invading Iraq isn't in the damned Constitution"

It is in the Constitution. Article 1, Section 8. Apparently you need to read it instead of having your hand in my pocket.

Posted by: BusinessOwner1 | March 16, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler & TheBink:

Actually Fascism & Democrats have similar economic policies!

From Wikipedia:

"Fascists promoted their ideology as a "Third Position" between capitalism and communism.[162] Italian Fascism involved corporatism, a political system in which the economy is collectively managed by employers, workers and state officials by formal mechanisms at national level.[163] Fascists advocated a new national class-based economic system, variously termed "national corporatism", "national socialism" or "national syndicalism".[35] The common aim of all fascist movements was elimination of the autonomy or, in some cases, the existence of large-scale capitalism.[164]

"Fascist governments exercised control over private property but did not nationalize it.[165] They pursued economic policies to strengthen state power and spread ideology, such as consolidating trade unions to be state or party-controlled."

Posted by: pmendez | March 16, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

@thebink: Fascism is totalitarianism of the right. You're a right-winger. Mussolini was one if yours.

Fascism is the union of state and corporate power. That sure sounds like the GOP to me.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

The problem with the health care bill is that it usurps the free market. It will destroy millions of private sector jobs. The government will hire millions of new government workers all members of SEIU and grateful Democrat voters.

If this was really about health care the changes to the existing system could be done with dismantling the current industry.

Competition across state lines, setting limits to malpractice awards, sending back 12M-20M illegal Mexican Citizens back to Mexico (who currently get free health care and education in the USA).

Health Care "Transformation" is part 1 of 3. Part 2 of 3 is immigration reform where 12M-20M new grateful Democrat voters are granted US Citizenship.

This is about power. This is about the Democrat party maintaining control over the country and the individual. They are willing to lie, cheat, steal, bribe, threaten OTHER DEMOCRATS to pass this.

Everything this man has said and done since before the election till today has been a ruse. How many times does a liar have to lie to you before you figure things out?

BTW: If it was really about saving lives why would they not cover the uninsured right now under Medicare or Medicade? This malignant tumor doesn't take affect until 2012 (but you'll start paying for it right away).

Read Saul Alinsky: "Rules for Radical's".

Posted by: jackxyz | March 16, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

MikeA3 Wrote:
"Would one conservative please explain which specific "rights" we are losing because of health care reform?"
=========================================
The right to refuse to buy health care if I choose not to. The right not to have to pay taxes on my meager retirement investment income to cover other people's health care. The to be free from worry over what freedom the government will take from me next. The right to have whatever medical treatment I want wherever I want it, if I can afford it. The right not to subsidize health care for union members like those in SEIU. There are far too many to list all of them here. One right I will still have however, the right to do everything I can to get all of the Democrats that vote for this miserable government power grab out of office. Also the right to continue to call for the impeachment of Obama for placing the well being of this country in jeopardy.

Posted by: good_angel | March 16, 2010 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler, Mussolini was a fascist. The definition of fascism-a government system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism. Doesn't sound like the conservative school of thought to me. Brits pulling their own teeth with pliers was first reported on CNN. If you google English pull own teeth, you'll see pages and pages on it. As for the health bill not being socialist it's at the very least a precursor to it.

Posted by: thebink | March 16, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Gotta look out for those downtrodden millionaires. After all, prosperity begins at the top!!

Posted by: Noacoler
-------------------------------------
That's what multi-millionaire Queen Nancy
thinks.

Posted by: leapin | March 16, 2010 5:48 PM | Report abuse

It's all about JOBS!

If the job situation is better in November, most people will probably have forgotten about health care reform vote.

If the job situation is NOT better in November, health care reform will be more gasoline on the anti-Democrat bonfire.

Posted by: pmendez | March 16, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

invading Iraq isn't in the damned Constitution

Actually the army is about the only thing we have that is allowed. And it is for the common good, not special interest.

Ped there goes a billy goat after your gold.

Posted by: Moonbat | March 16, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Well, if anyone thought Christie was going to govern as a moderate, you can forget about it:
 
“Upending the priorities of his Democratic predecessors, Governor Christie unveiled a budget that would hit the poor, elderly, schoolchildren, college students and inner-city residents hardest, while largely sparing the wealthy and businesses.

The plan proposed by Mr. Christie, the first Republican elected New Jersey governor in 12 years, relies almost exclusively on spending cuts, and stands as a stark example of how a Republican committed to not raising taxes grapples with a state budget in these still-challenging economic times.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/nyregion/17budget.html?hp

Gotta look out for those downtrodden millionaires.  After all, prosperity begins at the top!!

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 5:42 PM | Report abuse

If at all, this should be done by the individual states. That way if it passed, I could move to another state to get away from it.

Posted by: BusinessOwner1 | March 16, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

As a result we have an economy in the toilet, we’re bogged down in two wars we didn’t need to be in at all, we replaced a harmless dictatorship with an Iranian client state, our readiness is at its lowest point in decades, and our reputation is at such a low that many nations refuse to allow extradition to our soil because we might torture.

Ped has said an uncountable number of ignoRant idiotic things but this takes the prize.

Shouldn't you be stalking some poor boy in a shower somewhere?

Posted by: Moonbat | March 16, 2010 5:35 PM | Report abuse

"People in England have at times resorted to pulling their own teeth out with pliers for lack of dentists."

It is so hard to take people seriously, just in general, but then you see things like this and you just give up. England has socialized medicine, a national health service, the doctors, nurses, clerks, they all work for the government, like the VA system in this country.

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.aspx

It employs about 1.7 million people.

The American health care system, before and after this bill before Congress has nothing to do with socialized medicine.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler, you need to get into an anger management program and back on your Meds ASAP.

Posted by: thebink | March 16, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

I don't want to pay for your HC. I work hard to pay for mine.

HC is not in the Constitution. It is not a right.

==

I don't want to pay for for grimy kids' education. I don't want to pay for highways I don't drive on. I don't want to pay for that employment program calked defense.

</sarcasm>

invading Iraq isn't in the damned Constitution either, so please refund all my involuntary contribution to it.

Idiot. Move to Somalia. Free markets!!

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Medicare oftentimes doesn't even cover the overhead costs of doctors which is why so many are not taking Medicare patients. Mayo clinic recently stopped accepting those that don't reside in the state or an adjacent state for the same reason. People in England have at times resorted to pulling their own teeth out with pliers for lack of dentists. One "right" Americans may well lose if the right to actually go to a doctor when there's a severe shortage of them.

Posted by: thebink | March 16, 2010 5:25 PM | Report abuse

I don't want to pay for your HC. I work hard to pay for mine.

HC is not in the Constitution. It is not a right.

Posted by: BusinessOwner1 | March 16, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Delusional. That's the only way to describe rightwing sociopaths who whole heartedly believe that millions of uninsured voters (who will soon have access to affordable health care) would consider casting their votes for the party of no. Republicans are a tragic joke.

Posted by: GOP08_DOA
------------------------------------------
Yes, vote for the free lunch party everytime. They get my vote if I get a free pony.

Posted by: leapin | March 16, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

So very much has slipped under the radar in most part because of our slanted MS that simply doesn't report what doesn't fit their agenda. The Venona papers, the millions that have died are are still dying because of the DDT ban. We have full grown adults that walk around in Che T shirts obviously unaware of the destruction the man caused. Most Americans are fairly clueless in regard to the Bolshevik revolution, Mussolini and Mao. Being afraid of ignorance is not fear mongering.
 
==
 
You, sir, are an ignorant lout.  In any rational society you would be horsewhipped.
 
DDT?  It was only effective for a few years, then insects developed immunity.  Your idea that everyone who died of malaria since the ban would have lived is ahistorical nonsense.
 
And while the crap was being sprayed around to kill insects who no longer responded to it, hundreds of birds would have gone extinct.  Not that a complete cretin like you would care, right?  More babies!!  More babies!!
 
By the way, Mussolini was one of yours.  

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Delusional. That's the only way to describe rightwing sociopaths who whole heartedly believe that millions of uninsured voters (who will soon have access to affordable health care) would consider casting their votes for the party of no. Republicans are a tragic joke.

Posted by: GOP08_DOA | March 16, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

The politics of health care passage is to defy lack of support from American voters and Congress short of the required 216 votes. If we do not have the support of the people, or the votes, then manipulate congressional political rules to pass the unpopular bill.

Pelosi and Reid will use reconciliation to pass Obama health care even though it is not appropriate for legislation that mandates social programs on the people and mandatory health insurance requirements.

If passed by political manipulations, the health care federal laws will backfire on the politicians of Obama administration and Democrats. The American people will reject federal mandates; the medical service providers will suffer and health insurance coverage will be reduced to the lowest common denominator of a government run program. Choice and services available will be severely damaged.

Posted by: klausdmk | March 16, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

. . . history is a pretty good indicator, and this controversy is temporary especially if it passes. The only people that will still be frenzied enough to take action are those that watch FOX because they'll keep covering it and rubbing your feelings raw because that's why you tune in. Everyone else in "lost" and "american idol" land will quickly forget unless there's a huge in-your-face bill before election.

Posted by: Crucialitis
___________

Had the American people been as docile as you pretend (or wish)and had Obama had his way, the bill would have been rammed through last August. Not only has the bill and the means of advancing the bill been controversial, Obama and those who pretend to be Congressional leaders have refused to have it any way but “my” way. Why such an unwillingness to work together for the best interest of the American people? Moreover, if the Health Care bill does pass and “then we can learn what it contains” as Pelosi suggests, disgust and unhappiness will continue to mount.
Even if the bill had merit, the tactics being used will not be forgotten by voters in November. And if they ram this through, God have pity as to what they may try next.
As for FOX, forget it. I can think for myself. Meanwhile, go on pretending. Prepare to have your eyes opened in the coming months including the election in November.

Posted by: keepthefaith | March 16, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

The only right I will lose is the right to lose my home and my savings should I lose my job and my medical insurance.

And by the way, most Americans are not satisfied with their health insurance. It has been going downhill for years.

Posted by: dnygr | March 16, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Saving two faced to look good until he looks bad.

Posted by: tossnokia | March 16, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

So very much has slipped under the radar in most part because of our slanted MS that simply doesn't report what doesn't fit their agenda. The Venona papers, the millions that have died are are still dying because of the DDT ban. We have full grown adults that walk around in Che T shirts obviously unaware of the destruction the man caused. Most Americans are fairly clueless in regard to the Bolshevik revolution, Mussolini and Mao. Being afraid of ignorance is not fear mongering.

Posted by: thebink | March 16, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Will the HC bill help me? I doubt it.

My HC premiums went from $900 month for me and the wife down to $400 month when we switched to a Health Saving Account. We went from Blue Cross Blue Shield to Assurant Health. No co-pays and free wellness visits. Recently, I had a full physical including blood work and my total bill was $7. Not bad and we each have $25,000,000 for catastrophic care. Its has a high deductible of $7,500 at first but it goes down $750 every 6 months until it gets to zero (we are at $6,000 now). It doesn't reset each year, it just goes down whether you use it or not. This is no 80/20 plan either. It pays 100% after deductible and it also goes across state line and out of the country. Also, all money we spend on HC is 100% deductible and tax free.

http://www.assuranthealth.com/corp/ah/HealthPlans/HSA

Kill the current bill and get an HSA.

Posted by: BusinessOwner1 | March 16, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Would one conservative please explain which specific "rights" we are losing because of health care reform? And please explain what exactly is being "taken over" by the gov't, and how? Would one right wing opposition memeber please specify what "freedoms" we have "lost" due to Obama and which freedoms we are about to lose because of health care reform? I hear and read their words of fear and hate of the POTUS, but see no evidence other than people will now get a fairer deal from health insurers. It remains a free market model with almost all the GOP ideas for health care since 1994? Give us break! Good grief!!

Posted by: MikeA3 | March 16, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Come November, there is going to be a referendum on BO and his liberal agenda. The people will decide whether or not this country is headed down the path of 'hope and change' that they voted for in the last election. When the left loses the house and/or senate, it will be interesting to see who or what they blame. For some odd reason, I'm already hearing chants of 'voter fraud'. November 2010 will be interesting indeed.

Posted by: AkCoyote | March 16, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

IMO Some people say government health care is uncontitutional but as a layman, I think the excerpt below from our Constitution means health care could be part of general welfare:

Article. I.
Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

Posted by: stevyost | March 16, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

John Anzalone is a political hack with an agenda. We shall see if he is right on this one, but I think he has counted his chickens before they hatch. He has bought hook, line, and sinker Obama's ploy of passing the bill first and then doing damage control.

Sooo, the poll is rigged to push the House Dems to pull the trigger and vote "yes". I would probably say the easiest way to do that would be to phrase the questions smartly and poll in areas that heavily favor the health bill.

But, my question to my fellow Democrats at Anzalone-Liszt is one that I muse over every now and then: does the end justify the means? My religion teaches me "no".

Posted by: deeman | March 16, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Yep, the democrat slugs really want to represent the people.

The lily livered cowards are leaving their hones off the hook. so they don't have to hear from constituents.

What huge pieces of feces these democrats are.

==

shouldn't you be at school?

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Yep, the democrat slugs really want to represent the people.

The lily livered cowards are leaving their hones off the hook. so they don't have to hear from constituents.

What huge pieces of feces these democrats are.

Posted by: LarryG62 | March 16, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

IMO Some people say government health care is uncontitutional but as a layman, I think the excerpt below from our Constitution means health care could be part of general welfare:

Article. I.
Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

Posted by: stevyost | March 16, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Well the ferocious capitalists of the sovereign wealth funds sure do like Obama's brand of socialism. While Republicans are stocking up on ammo, capitalists are betting on America, on our currency (treasury auctions) and on our companies.

Then there are things like coal, its prices/futures, like everything else, climbing out of the 2009 hole. But unlike natural gas, coal is looking to get more expensive as the northern hemisphere heating season ends.

Guess what, these are energy traders betting on steel industry demand.

Even airline stocks are up.

Sorry Republicans, all signs are pointing toward heavy bets on economic recovery. That is called confidence and you can't beat it.

The Obama as Antichrist, civil disobedience, end of the world tragidrama is getting boring.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

"FIRST, DO NO HARM."

"Is denying what THOUSANDS know to be true the best psy op you've got? Or are you not denying it, but demanding official "proof?" Proof of something that is operational, described in detail in patent documents, and is even known to local law enforcement?

If that is the strategy of this nation's security/intel/law enforcement cabal -- to DECEIVE the civilian leadership by denying that this technology is installed and operational nationwide -- then we will soon be convening American war crimes trials that far exceed the scope of the Nuremberg trials."

-- Journalist Vic Livingston, from "comments" section,
http://nowpublic.com/world/u-s-govt-uses-cbs-news-cover-microwave-cell-tower-torture?
http://NowPublic.com/scrivener, RE: "U.S. Silently Tortures Americans with Cell Tower Microwaves"

Posted by: scrivener50 | March 16, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

I find it interesting that so many voters are against this bill. Many are against healthcare reform all together. There are two fundamental viewpoints on this that I have heard.

1. Individuals need to be responsible, accountable, and we don't need government control of our lives.

2. Health care is a fundamental right, why else would children, Medicare and Medicaid exist, we just need to cover everyone.

If you believe in number 1, then you really need to go all the way in my opinion. If someone can't afford healthcare and is not insured, then they shouldn't get any medical treatment. If that means they die, they die. People aren't willing to say that for one of three reasons; 1. They don't want to be attacked for not caring about life. 2. They really only believe this because they haven't had any unfortunate circumstances themself, or 3. What they really mean is pay for it as long as it doesn't come out of their pocket.

If you believe the second item at the top, then who is going to pay for it? We have to be realistic. Taxes need to be increased, and retirement benefits and/or DOD expenditures in this country need to get cut. People won't admit to this because they want someone else to pay, don't care about the cost (I'd be afraid to see their personal finances), or they just feel entitled.

Somewhere in the middle is the truth. This bill really should get passed. Why? It's better than the status quo AND if it doesn't get passed..........the status quo won't change for years. Why? Since jobs are still the main issue, Republicans will probably gain seats in this election. The Republicans won't deal with healthcare at all. They are not interested in it one bit. In the last 30 years, the middle class incomes are sliding compared to what the top 10% in the country earn. I'm not a fan of Democrats, but they are definitely the lesser of two evils at this point in history.

Posted by: patrick_millard | March 16, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

If it passes, and they focus on the economy as the top priority, everyone will forget by November. It's not even summer yet. Voters in November don't remember anything before June.

Posted by: Crucialitis
_________________

So you hope. With the tactics being used to ram this joke of a Health Care bill through, the Democrats can only hope that voters in November will have forgotten. Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are anything but leaders who truly care for the future of our country. Such poor excuses of leadership cannot and will not be forgotten.

Posted by: keepthefaith
===
So you say. But history is a pretty good indicator, and this controversy is temporary especially if it passes. The only people that will still be frenzied enough to take action are those that watch FOX because they'll keep covering it and rubbing your feelings raw because that's why you tune in. Everyone else in "lost" and "american idol" land will quickly forget unless there's a huge in-your-face bill before election.

Posted by: Crucialitis | March 16, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

This bill has more to do with gaining control of 1/6 of the economy by the Democrats than health care. The procedures the Dems are using are dispicable and it appears the CBO will score the bill at the last minute preventing further debate. God help us if the government takes control of health care. I live in Florida and I'll be looking for a health care solution (like Rush) in Costa Rica or the islands. Good luck to the rest of you.

Posted by: saelij | March 16, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

wASHINGTON pOST: i JUST POSTED A COMMENT ON LINE AND WAS TOLD IT FAILD BECAUSE i HAD MADE ON THIS VERY SITE PREVIOUS COMMENTS REGARDING THE SUBJECT ON HAND. tHIS IS NOT SO! AND YOUR DEADE WRONG!!!!!

Posted by: LOONYBIN2000 | March 16, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

wASHINGTON pOST: i JUST POSTED A COMMENT ON LINE AND WAS TOLD IT FAILD BECAUSE i HAD MADE ON THIS VERY SITE PREVIOUS COMMENTS REGARDING THE SUBJECT ON HAND. tHIS IS NOT SO! AND YOUR DEADE WRONG!!!!!

Posted by: LOONYBIN2000 | March 16, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

For 8 long years the democrats vilified George Bush. At every opportunity they called him every name in the book and did everything in their power to sabotage his administration.
 
==
 
Oh had it only been so.  You’re lying, of course … the Democrats rolled over like a dog doing tricks for Bush, authorized his invasions, let his tax cuts get passed, and did nothing whatever to thwart his administration.  As a result we have an economy in the toilet, we’re bogged down in two wars we didn’t need to be in at all, we replaced a harmless dictatorship with an Iranian client state, our readiness is at its lowest point in decades, and our reputation is at such a low that many nations refuse to allow extradition to our soil because we might torture.
 
If only the Democrats *had* done more.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

If it passes, and they focus on the economy as the top priority, everyone will forget by November. It's not even summer yet. Voters in November don't remember anything before June.

Posted by: Crucialitis
_________________

So you hope. With the tactics being used to ram this joke of a Health Care bill through, the Democrats can only hope that voters in November will have forgotten. Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are anything but leaders who truly care for the future of our country. Such poor excuses of leadership cannot and will not be forgotten.

Posted by: keepthefaith | March 16, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

It appears Obama will pass the bill no matter if it is good for the people or not.

He must show to his inner being and the world I AM THE BOSS and he will fight with every bit of HIS strength, lies and double talk he can muster to prove he is the BOSS, but for how long and how many of the people will suffer for his insufferable " I DONT CARE , I AM THE BOSS" ATTITUDE no matter what the consequences to the Dems and the people he swore to PROTECT AND GIVE US A BETTER LIFE!!!!

Posted by: LOONYBIN2000 | March 16, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Obama and his puppets, Pelosi and Reid, are taking a lot from the playbook of communist Hugo Chavez. However the producing people in this country have finally awakened. The politicians have ignored the American people too long. First they allowed millions of illegal aliens to come into this country and take American jobs doing carpentry, masonry, roofing, painting, etc. They over burdened our health care systems, school systems, and our jails. Now the Democrats are breaching the constitution to try to force every American to buy health insurance. They are using every crooked trick they know, including threats and bribery to pass a bill the majority of Americans do not want. Every Democrat that votes for this bill should be removed from office. Obama should be impeached for destroying our nations economy through massive spending and indebtedness. When you purposely harm this country's well being that is treason. The TEA Party movement, which I support, should immediately start raising funds to investigate all the players pushing this bill. We should also raise money for an immediate court challenge to the legislation, should it pass. A revolution is brewing in this country. This time the Democrats have went too far.

Posted by: good_angel | March 16, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Look at it this way. For 8 long years the democrats vilified George Bush. At every opportunity they called him every name in the book and did everything in their power to sabotage his administration. The sad part is, it worked. Along comes the messiah, people are convinced the HOPE and CHANGE is really needed and the democrats take over 2/3 of the government. Now in one short year, the democrats have dropped the façade and shown themselves to be the socialists that they really are. This is a center-right country and only 20% of the population truly considers themselves to be liberal. Now the remaining 80% have had their eyes opened to the ‘revolution from within’ and we are putting a stop to it. It may not seem to ring true now but having BO in office may be the salvation of our constitution as more people than ever before in modern history are actually reading the document and understanding what the founding fathers were trying to create. AND they are passing this message on to their children. BO and his henchmen have done more to educate the people of this country on how the government ‘really’ works than all news stories ever written and for this, we should be thankful. This president and many democrats have signed their political death warrants and we have THEM to thank for the ammunition.

Posted by: AkCoyote

===
The majority wouldn't be so bold as to define themselves as far left. Most people vary across the spectrum across issues. But, few are actually so polarized as to self identify as a vilified label versus the one that's associated with tradition.

The echo boomers, who are only a few hundred thousand short of the boomers dwindling numbers, more readily identify themselves as liberal.

Posted by: Crucialitis | March 16, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Pelosi I don't think you DARE do any more than threaten.You are selling out your country and your familes. You always nhave been a B, but you are putting it in writing now.Do you have children? They sure will be embarrased with you now.You will end up the loser.

Posted by: swansonmorganb | March 16, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

It's obvious that the democratic process in our Constitution is being cast aside. Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and President Obama should be tried for treason!!!

Posted by: lesturgill | March 16, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

It is one thing to be required to obey an unpopular law that was legitimately passed by both houses of Congress.

It is another thing to have an unpopular law forced down the throats of Americans using slight of hand, bribes and extortion.

If American Citizens put up with this process, we will get what we deserve and will become a failed State.

Why is it that Democrats don't believe in Democracy?

Posted by: BudMiller | March 16, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

You forgot to mention 50% of your paycheck is under goverment control (and rising).

==

pulse holding steady

better try something else, Cletus

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Here's a prediction: Once the bill passes, the loud-mouth opposition will become quiet. Why? Because people will be happy to know they aren't going to lose their health insurance if they lose their job, become ill, miss an insurance payment, etc. Reform will carry the day all the way to November.

Respectfully,
F.M.

Posted by: Felipe_M | March 16, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Look at it this way. For 8 long years the democrats vilified George Bush. At every opportunity they called him every name in the book and did everything in their power to sabotage his administration. The sad part is, it worked. Along comes the messiah, people are convinced the HOPE and CHANGE is really needed and the democrats take over 2/3 of the government. Now in one short year, the democrats have dropped the façade and shown themselves to be the socialists that they really are. This is a center-right country and only 20% of the population truly considers themselves to be liberal. Now the remaining 80% have had their eyes opened to the ‘revolution from within’ and we are putting a stop to it. It may not seem to ring true now but having BO in office may be the salvation of our constitution as more people than ever before in modern history are actually reading the document and understanding what the founding fathers were trying to create. AND they are passing this message on to their children. BO and his henchmen have done more to educate the people of this country on how the government ‘really’ works than all news stories ever written and for this, we should be thankful. This president and many democrats have signed their political death warrants and we have THEM to thank for the ammunition.

Posted by: AkCoyote | March 16, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Isn't democracy great?

Voting in November sounds good to me.
We'll see who remembers what.

Even better, we get to vote for President again in a little more than two and a half years.

Can't wait to see who is on the Republican ticket - moreover to watch the process of that decision. Pure entertainment.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

You are right, WylieMan. "How can the CBO say anything about a bill that has not been finalized?"

Additionally, we already know that Obama and his comrades are using deception, gimmicks, creative accounting, smoke and mirrors to hide the trillions of dollars their scam will cost us.

"Legislative Reality vs, Political Reality," by Peter Suderman, identifies specific deceptive strategies. One of the strategies entails shifting expensive parts of a bill to completely DIFFERENT pieces of legislation. So the costs found by the CBO will be only PART of the costs.

In the House, Democrats shifted an expensive, unpaid-for "fix" to doctor's Medicare reimbursement rates over to a separate bill. And in the Senate, they backloaded the spending so that its full effects would not be felt in the 10-year window that CBO scores. In the latest Senate bill, 99 percent of the spending would occur in the last six years of the budget window.

http://reason.com/archives/2009/12/10/legislative-reality-vs-politic

Obamacare will dramatically increase taxes, costs and the deficit while rationing and destroying health care.

As the Obama campaign was funded largely by U.S. enemies like George Soros, It seems Obama and his comrades are trying to repay them by destroying our country!

Posted by: AntonioSosa | March 16, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

The health INSURANCE reform bill.

Honestly, I cannot believe this could happen.

1. A majority of the public does not support or are in favor of this bill.
2. A majority of the House of Representatives do not support or are in favor of this bill.
3. The majority of votes needed in the Senate to pass this bill without a filibuster are not there.
4. A majority of states have considered or have partially passed legislation to ban any federal mandate to secure health insurance coverage.

But the Democrats are trying to get this bill through congress in spite of all this.

And, if the President signs this bill then this will show that all of this is approved and supported by him (of course!)

What country is this? Are we headed towards a dictatorship? when this bill can be 'deemed' passed!

It is time for all of us to get up, get out, and make sure this does not happen.

The health INSURANCE reform bill.

Honestly, I cannot believe this could happen.

1. A majority of the public does not support or are in favor of this bill.
2. A majority of the House of Representatives do not support or are in favor of this bill.
3. The majority of votes needed in the Senate to pass this bill without a filibuster are not there.
4. A majority of states have considered or have partially passed legislation to ban any federal mandate on health insurance coverage.

But the Democrats are trying to get this bill through congress in spite of all this.

And, if the President signs this bill then this will show that all of this is approved and supported by him (of course!)

What country is this? Are we headed towards a dictatorship? when this bill can be 'deemed' passed!

It is time for all of us to get up, get out, make a difference and be sure this does not happen.

Posted by: Sly_In_Michigan | March 16, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Wylieman, you are right and I was wrong.I thought Independent4tw was an idiot but probably is a Moron.

Posted by: jcory | March 16, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Over half of that sixth of the economy is already under government control, and the sky somehow remains safely overhead, so stop rolling your eyes, Chicken Littles.

I remember when conservatism was a political framework, not a psychiatric condition. Just look at all the paranoia here.

Posted by: Noacoler
------------------------------------------
You forgot to mention 50% of your paycheck is under goverment control (and rising).

Posted by: leapin | March 16, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

I applaud Speaker Pelosi for considering using "Deem and Pass." This would actually be a more valid way to resolve this as it more closely approximates the Conference Committee idea used when the Senate and House each pass different versions of a bill. The Conference Com. works out the differences and then both chambers vote on the corrected version - the first chamber that passed its version is not forced to vote on the other chamber's "unfixed" version. With "Deem and Pass" this basic idea would hold - the House would vote on the "fixed" Senate bill - as would the Senate - and this would become law. BTW, Newt used this` "Deem and Pass" in 1996 to pass the line item veto. And more recently the GOP used "Deem and Pass" 36 times in 2005 and 2006! Go for it, Dems!

Posted by: uofmdgrad | March 16, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

You are right, thebink, but but the harm generated by Madoff's Ponzi scheme pales in comparison with the harm that will be generated by the Ponzi schemes of Obama and his comrades, mainly the Obamacare and cap and trade Ponzi schemes.

Posted by: AntonioSosa | March 16, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Independent4tw wrote:
"Liar.

The CBO says that this bill is CHEAPER then doing nothing. Get an education, and THEN come back and cry about something that is actually true."
Posted by: Independent4tw | March 16, 2010 3:48 PM

You're a moron. How can the CBO say anything about a bill that has not been finalized? You need to educate yourself before you go around putting other people down. When they finally come up with the final bill then the CBO will check it out again! Also, the Republicans do not want to do "nothing" we just do not agree with the load of cr*p that the Dems are attempting to push through. Just start over from scratch with both parties working together.

Posted by: WylieMan | March 16, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Fresh from counting his gold and harrassing billy goats gruff, Ped arrives.

Posted by: drivl | March 16, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

It appears to me that this is the way Chavez in Venezuela slid his way in as "President for life", first he forced items through his legislature through a form of "reconciliation", then changed the constitution after he had put all his zombies in place in the legislature to insure passage. His form of "socialist dictatatorship" is what our congress seems to be headed for.

Posted by: bstone1931
--------------
The only way you can win an argument is by trying to scare people into joining your team.

You are a complete moron if you think Obama is going to do anything you said.
------------------------------
Have you once heard Obama criticize the Leftist regimes in Central and South America? Have you once heard Obama decry the closing of opposition newspapers? Have you once heard Obama criticize the seizing of private property for the "redistribution" to political cronies? have you once heard Obama defend the US against the many degradations hurled at our country by these leftists?

Who is the moron?

Posted by: GuyThompto1 | March 16, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

The only way you can win an argument is by trying to scare people into joining your team.

You are a complete moron if you think Obama is going to do anything you said.

Posted by: Independent4tw
------------------------------------------
Would you say the Germans of the late 1930's were morons?

Posted by: leapin | March 16, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Over half of that sixth of the economy is already under government control, and the sky somehow remains safely overhead, so stop rolling your eyes, Chicken Littles.

I remember when conservatism was a political framework, not a psychiatric condition. Just look at all the paranoia here.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Independent4tw become truly independent by researching a little deeper than watching Rachel Madcow and you will find that the CBO has no idea what the real cost will be but use your mind and ask what government program you can think of that runs smoothly and saves money. If Amtrac and the Post Office come to mind then go back to studying up on the government with your own independent research.

Posted by: jcory | March 16, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Our government is out of money. I believe that the money paid into this health care bill will disappear as the medicare and social security funds have. I realize that the size of the boomer population is putting a strain on these programs and will create huge future problems but where has the money disappeared to up to this point? We all know what a Ponzi scheme is now thanks to Madoff.

Posted by: thebink | March 16, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm, so we need to spend a trillion dollars for 1) the coverage of pre-existing conditions and 2) the fact that for the first time ever average people will be able to have the same health care plan as Members of Congress? This bill is loaded with kaka that only adds cost and will have zero impact on improving health care. WE DO NOT NEED THIS BILL AS IS!

Posted by: TiredofTaxesinMass
-----------
Liar.

The CBO says that this bill is CHEAPER then doing nothing. Get an education, and THEN come back and cry about something that is actually true.
---------------------
Actually, we don't know what the CBO says because the bill is actively being completed with the new bribes inserted to get the final votes needed to pass. Pelosi conveniently bypassed the CBO on this round with yet another shady move. We DO NOT KNOW what this bill will cost as the CBO has not seen the most recent version - and likely never will!

Posted by: GuyThompto1 | March 16, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

So, the Washington Post finally admits this dirty little bill that deals with one sixth of our economy is not popular. You better believe it and if you pass it,we will remember in November

Posted by: farmsnorton | March 16, 2010 3:55 PM | Report abuse

It appears to me that this is the way Chavez in Venezuela slid his way in as "President for life", first he forced items through his legislature through a form of "reconciliation", then changed the constitution after he had put all his zombies in place in the legislature to insure passage. His form of "socialist dictatatorship" is what our congress seems to be headed for.

Posted by: bstone1931
--------------
The only way you can win an argument is by trying to scare people into joining your team.

You are a complete moron if you think Obama is going to do anything you said.

Posted by: Independent4tw | March 16, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

How is it not obvious to everyone that the republicans, conservatives, and insurance lobbyists are just using scare tactics to trick you stupid people?

I mean, they even admitted it last week. How much evidence do you need?

Look at the add on this page with the huge red letters alarming you of "government takeover of health care" and wonder to yourself...

"Why do they have to try and scare me to donate money, money that will be used to ensure that I keep giving record profits to the health insurance industry."

Or you can just follow the lemmings off the cliff.

Posted by: Independent4tw | March 16, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm, so we need to spend a trillion dollars for 1) the coverage of pre-existing conditions and 2) the fact that for the first time ever average people will be able to have the same health care plan as Members of Congress? This bill is loaded with kaka that only adds cost and will have zero impact on improving health care. WE DO NOT NEED THIS BILL AS IS!

Posted by: TiredofTaxesinMass
-----------
Liar.

The CBO says that this bill is CHEAPER then doing nothing. Get an education, and THEN come back and cry about something that is actually true.

Posted by: Independent4tw | March 16, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

It appears to me that this is the way Chavez in Venezuela slid his way in as "President for life", first he forced items through his legislature through a form of "reconciliation", then changed the constitution after he had put all his zombies in place in the legislature to insure passage. His form of "socialist dictatatorship" is what our congress seems to be headed for.

Posted by: bstone1931 | March 16, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Eddo1 Great post. This is what the Republicans have always wanted but congress as always lied and said you guys have no ideas.

Posted by: farmsnorton | March 16, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Nobama care please I just want some American pie

A little choice and some fresh ideas that are homecooked instead of taken out of the recipe books of falling euro countrys

Posted by: Donald03
------------
Those failing countries have higher quality care at a cheaper cost.

Posted by: Independent4tw
-------------------------------------------
Then why are they falling?

Posted by: leapin
----------
Are they really failing? That is what he said, but he didn't show any proof.

Posted by: Independent4tw | March 16, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse


Nobama care please I just want some American pie

A little choice and some fresh ideas that are homecooked instead of taken out of the recipe books of falling euro countrys

Posted by: Donald03
------------
Those failing countries have higher quality care at a cheaper cost.

Posted by: Independent4tw
-------------------------------------------
Then why are they falling?

Posted by: leapin | March 16, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

What the Democrats very conveniently fail to mention is that since the legislation won't really take effect for another 4 years, tax dollars over a period of 10 years will be for 6 years of reform.

Posted by: Eddo1
------------
Then explain how the second ten years of this bill save over $1 Trillion dollars when the taxes and the coverage are both at 100%.

Unless you think the CBO is wrong, in which I would ask you for your professional estimates (complete with data.)

Posted by: Independent4tw | March 16, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm, so we need to spend a trillion dollars for 1) the coverage of pre-existing conditions and 2) the fact that for the first time ever average people will be able to have the same health care plan as Members of Congress? This bill is loaded with kaka that only adds cost and will have zero impact on improving health care. WE DO NOT NEED THIS BILL AS IS!

Posted by: TiredofTaxesinMass | March 16, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Chris Cillizza: [QUOTE]"Passage of the bill seems ... near-inevitable ... But ... the task of reversing public opinion about the bill."[/QUOTE]

Mr. Cillizza, why is it you and much of the media are so blinded to the fact that the public is against this, blinded by this frenzied motivation to "reverse public opinion" rather than respect it?

This is what Americans are hating about you, Mr. Media, their elected president and the Pelosi Chuckwagon gang. They want to change the public's mind, ramrod this through, and claim credit. To what? Something those who elected you - those to whom you're supposed to be a government "for the people" (remember?) - DO NOT WANT?

How many times does the word NO have to be restated?

Health insurance is not yours to give.

Posted by: TulsaDavid | March 16, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

I'm all for health care reform:
1. Cap malpractice tort cases;
2. Provide for health insurance marketing across state lines;
3. Clean up Medicare/Medicaid to eliminate waste and fraud;
4. Eliminate pre-condition clauses; and
5. Make health insurance portable;

If the legislation in its present form is enacted into law, I predict the bureaucracy to manage it will become as large as is present with Medicare/Medicaid and just as fraught with waste and fraud.

Posted by: Eddo1 | March 16, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Caleefe, those of us that are against this health care bill do want reform, just not an entire taking over of a system that does work well for many. We need to first get rid of all corruption, abuse and outright theft in our existing government health care programs so that people like your son who truly needs help has access to it. Those people that abuse any government programs are not only robbing taxpayers, they are robbing the people that do need help through no fault of their own and we need to stop tolerating their abuse.

Posted by: thebink | March 16, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

stvmia
You are right. A study was done on Mass's state insurance and one area of saving was supposed to be the emergency rooms used for non emergency but with the overload of patients at doctors offices people go to emergency because they can't get the appointment they want. Also don't be fooled by pre existing taken out it will be taken out but the policy will cost an arm and a leg. With the complaining of the rich getting the breaks I can't believe the rank and file democrats are not screaming for tort reforms to take money out of the rich lawyers or do they look at this as future lottery to strike it rich going after a doctor if they can.

Posted by: jcory | March 16, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

I love it when people scream that Obama "should be concentrating on the economy.."..yup, health care has no part of our economy. The largest budget-buster of them all- even more so than defense - has nothing to do with our economy. The factor that drives more households into bankruptcy than any other- no related to our economy. Same for small businesses - but still its not the economy! How about this- anyone who thinks that - maybe you should focus on some activity that doesnt require thinking.

Posted by: drdoug | March 16, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

What the Democrats very conveniently fail to mention is that since the legislation won't really take effect for another 4 years, tax dollars over a period of 10 years will be for 6 years of reform.

Posted by: Eddo1 | March 16, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

It's funny how the largest, most advanced capitalist society in the world is being led by the most economically ignorant president in the world. Healthcare costs are spiraling out of control, so let government increase regulation and control vs. removing restrictions on competition. Can gov't do anything right? And believe me, Bush's "prescription drug bill" was another example of the gov't getting way wrong. Logically, use human psychology, not to mention common-sense, do people waste more or less when they get something for free? So what happens when the gov't takes the cost out of the equation or even artificially reduces it? Are we hooked as a nation or not to these free Rx benefits? I rest my case. Obama should be impeached for ignorance, stupidity and treason.

Posted by: stvmia | March 16, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

I'm one of those 60% that think health care should be reformed. I'm also one of those 60% that think it shouldn't be reformed this way. Why can't these professional pollsters ask the second question? I guess once they get the answer they want, nothing else matters.

Posted by: dnha | March 16, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

"From an Indy voter in CA:
Son born preterm -- lots of $$ care, but we had HC. 10 yrs later, hubby started own business -- no-more HC, so went to individual market. Perfectly healthy son, but being born early deemed pre-existing condition. No coverage possible at any price!! Our solution: Divorce on paper, hubby pays child support thru state so son can can get Medi-Cal (medic-aid). Son graduates HS, goes into army with MOS in intel. Son finishes service. Econ sucks, goes to college, goes to individual market for HC. He's again denied for same reasons!!! So wait . . . he's healthy enough to drop into a war zone in the middle of some God-Forsaken hell hole, but not healthy enough to buy insurance? How is it that it's OK to ask him to risk life and limb for his country, but not OK for his country to insist that he have access to health insurance??"

I see no one here wants to answer you. All they want to do is talk about BS.

Your situation is the reason why we NEED universal health care NOW!!!!!!!

the only reason Health insurance companies even exist is to MAKE MONEY. Every penny they make is one less penny that can be used for health care.

Posted by: caleefe | March 16, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Crucialitis


Funny how half the time Obama is using the opposite logic - Obama says the voters WILL REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER AND REWARD THE DEMOCRATS. So which is it?

Will the voters remember or not remember?

See the democrats only want the voters to remember what they want them to remember.

It really comes down to this: the democrats want to govern by deception.

The democrats want to do all sorts of things - but they are always figuring how they won't be RESPONSIBLE for those things at election time. Everyone can't wait to drive these clowns out of office.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street
===
The people that aren't driven mad by this policy will probably forget unless our rates suddenly triple before November. I'm not sure if they will remember the good unless legislation personally affects them like it's affected me. Generally though, I'd think the end result is ambivalence, which will be credited as a Republican groundswell even though Democrats just stayed home.

Posted by: Crucialitis | March 16, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

"Clyburn says health vote could push past Easter holiday"

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/86969-clyburn-says-health-vote-could-delay-until-easter-holiday

in other words, the bill is dead.

Posted by: doof | March 16, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

"conducted in a whopping 92 Democratic districts"

Why don't they go to majority "African- American" districts and ask if they are in favor of civil rights?

Why don''t they go to "Mexican-American" districts and ask if they are in favor of opening the borders?

So people in Democratic districts are in favor of Obama. Wow, what a shocker!

Posted by: dnha | March 16, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

If this passes, not only will we be giving up more of our rights as citizens, our future as a country will be in doubt.

No matter what the cost, the current Healthcare bill, as it is now written needs to be defeated.

Every state needs to protest this bill and fight the passage by all means.

Finally, I believe that any Senator or Congressman who votes "yes" needs to be
voted out. (If Pelosi doesn't manage to get it passed without a vote)

Posted by: chevyken1 | March 16, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Crucialitis


Funny how half the time Obama is using the opposite logic - Obama says the voters WILL REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER AND REWARD THE DEMOCRATS. So which is it?

Will the voters remember or not remember?

See the democrats only want the voters to remember what they want them to remember.

It really comes down to this: the democrats want to govern by deception.

The democrats want to do all sorts of things - but they are always figuring how they won't be RESPONSIBLE for those things at election time. Everyone can't wait to drive these clowns out of office.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 16, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Crucialitis
Why are you buying a home when you can't pay your credit card on time. Why don't you use the home buyer credit to pay off your debt instead of worrying about fines because you are late.
===
Jcory, I can pay it on time. I merely forgot to set up automatic payments, but I wasn't crucified because of it.
I will be able to pay for the house and the credit card regardless, but at least it's less hassle in the process!

Posted by: Crucialitis | March 16, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Trouble ahead for Republicans: despite repeated cries of "Marxism" and "Socialism," readers' pulses remain at 75 or below.

They'd better find a way to make us hysterical and stop us from thinking.

Try "freedom.". It still had s little punch.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Crucialitis
Why are you buying a home when you can't pay your credit card on time. Why don't you use the home buyer credit to pay off your debt instead of worrying about fines because you are late.

Posted by: jcory | March 16, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Is there any way America can DEEM that Obama is not the President anymore?

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 16, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Who's going to clean up the stinky pile of poo this is destined to become?

Posted by: fefifofob | March 16, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Independent4tw
Name two of Obama's accomplishments.

Posted by: jcory
-----------------------------------------
I can name two! I can name two!

LIES

BRIBES

===
I like the homebuyer credit. Which will stimulate the economy when I spend mine on contractors and utilities.

And credit card reform, which has already saved me once from defaulting from the intro rate to 1% below usury for being a single day late. As a result, the bank keeps my business, and more private businesses profit from the extra $39.95 in my wallet.

I know... socialism!

Posted by: Crucialitis | March 16, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

From an Indy voter in CA:
Son born preterm -- lots of $$ care, but we had HC. 10 yrs later, hubby started own business -- no-more HC, so went to individual market. Perfectly healthy son, but being born early deemed pre-existing condition. No coverage possible at any price!! Our solution: Divorce on paper, hubby pays child support thru state so son can can get Medi-Cal (medic-aid). Son graduates HS, goes into army with MOS in intel. Son finishes service. Econ sucks, goes to college, goes to individual market for HC. He's again denied for same reasons!!! So wait . . . he's healthy enough to drop into a war zone in the middle of some God-Forsaken hell hole, but not healthy enough to buy insurance? How is it that it's OK to ask him to risk life and limb for his country, but not OK for his country to insist that he have access to health insurance??

Posted by: theinnovative1 | March 16, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I think we need a new term for this latest scam... How about OBAMASCARE?

Posted by: magnatron | March 16, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Drudge link today, I'm guessing?

I think my favorite comment was the one about how using reconciliation will inevitably lead to President Obama gaining a lifelong term. Yes, because use of reconciliation always leads to lifelong presidential terms. That's why we had those 23 years of President Reagan and the subsequent six years of President Zombie Reagan.

Posted by: GJonahJameson | March 16, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Those arrogant little Democratic snots. They want the public to be more educated? How dare them as they hide behind closed doors, bribe, hide bills so no one can see, lie, cheat, make up rules, deliver double talk, preach transparency and do anything but be transparent, and act deaf and dumb to the people.
We have done our best to keep up with these corrupt little creeps and we think we know what is in the bill of the day. They want to have a vote but now when they do not have the votes, they make up some gimmick. They think we are some third world country to make up the rules as they go? I am so sick of these delusional nuts. The elections cannot come soon enough. The democrats think they will make history. But no, the democrats are history.

Posted by: greatgran1 | March 16, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

IF WE ALLOW PELOSI TO GET AWAY WITH ABUSING THE CONSTITUTION BY ALLOWING HER TO "PASS" THIS HORROR OF AN ILLEGAL HEALTH CARE BILL WITH NO HOUSE VOTE WE WILL BE ABDICATING ANY FUTURE RIGHT WE MAY HAVE HAD TO DEMOCRACY! WE MUST FIGHT BACK IN THE FEDERAL COURTS BY ORGANIZING CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS. BY THE WAY, SOME OF THE PROVISIONS IN THIS BILL ARE COMPLETELY OUTRAGIOUS!
P59:"THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL HAVE DIRECT, REAL-TIME ACCESS TO ALL INDIVIDUAL BANK ACCOUNTS FOR ELECTRONIC FUNDS TRANSFER"
P195:"OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF THE GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE BUREAUCRACY WILL HAVE ACCESS TO ALL AMERICAN FINANCIAL AND PERSONAL RECORDS"..
gOOGLE "LITTLE GEMS FROM THE HEALTH CARE BILL" OR "wHAT'S REALLY IN OBAMA'S HEALTH CARE REFORM BILL- A PLAIN ENGLISH TRANSLATION".

Posted by: joeb123 | March 16, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I know of NO ONE outside of Congress with a three digit IQ who is in favor of the Senate bill. I also know of no one who isn't thoroughly angry about Pelosi and company circumventing the American process. Neither Pelosi nor Obama have any clue what it means to be a real American and both are now considered extreme threats to our National Security by real Americans.

Posted by: magnatron | March 16, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it nice to see tactics of convenience used to accomplish good and resist obstructionism?

Posted by: brendan4 | March 16, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

I love people like AntonioSosa, who blabber on about political theory they don't understand. Antonio wouldn't know a marxist if one bit him in the butt - he will, however, know what talking points to repeat, cause Rush and Glenn give them to him.

Posted by: joelhunnicutt | March 16, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

CHRIS SAYS: "the fact that for the first time ever average people will be able to have the same health care plan as Members of Congress". Whaaaaaaaaa?
MORE PROOF THAT LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER.

Posted by: djmcfly | March 16, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

True market competition consistently produces lower costs all while new innovations and advances are introduced for the American people. Consumers buy cheaper, better, faster which rewards the providers that get it right and eliminates those that don't.
 
==
 
One born every minute – PT Barnum
 
Market-based healthcare doesn’t work.  In fact your “competition” only works at the smallest local level like a farmer’s market.  On larger scales competition is merely the wasteful duplication of effort.  Go peddle your snake oil on some forum where most people didn’t finish high school.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 16, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

"Obama has turned Washington into a CIRCUS."


i see the burnout methhead 37 has checked in for the day.

Posted by: drindl | March 16, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it nice to see tactics of convenience used to accomplish good and resist obstructionism?

Posted by: brendan4 | March 16, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Independent4tw
You obviously do not make enough to pay taxes and you fall into the category I talked about-IDIOTS

Posted by: jcory | March 16, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Independent4tw
You obviously do not make enough to pay taxes and you fall into the category I talked about-IDIOTS

Posted by: jcory | March 16, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

antonia, i don't think we need to take advice of Soviets on running our country. maybe you should go bacck to Russia.

Posted by: drindl | March 16, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Nobama care please I just want some American pie

A little choice and some fresh ideas that are homecooked instead of taken out of the recipe books of falling euro countrys

Posted by: Donald03
------------
Those failing countries have higher quality care at a cheaper cost.

Posted by: Independent4tw | March 16, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Bobby13,

You don't remember what the tea baggin' gop offered, because they don't have a plan for anything.

"Let's start over"
"Scrap the Bill"
"Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah"

Posted by: ovechkin | March 16, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Independent4tw
Name two of Obama's accomplishments.

Posted by: jcory
-----------------------------------------
I can name two! I can name two!

LIES

BRIBES

Posted by: leapin | March 16, 2010 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Obama has turned Washington into a CIRCUS.


Instead of concentrating the ECONOMY - Obama is off on some goose-hunt on health care.

Instead of actually passing a bill by VOTING, OBAMA WANTS HIS PROGRAM DEEMED TO BE PASSED.

Instead of actually doing his job to protect the country, Obama wants to give the terrorists a lawyer and a chance to get off in civilian courts.

Obama has created a complete CIRCUS in Washington.


No one in the country needs this clown - and it just gets worse and worse.

The people who voted for Obama are RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS DISASTER - who in their right mind would vote for someone with such little experience - with such little track-record.


There were hundreds, maybe thousands of people in this country, many with actual BUSINESS AND ECONOMIC EXPERIENCE, who would have made BETTER PRESIDENTS.

Start asking people WHO THEY VOTED FOR AND BLAME THEM.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 16, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Health-care reform is a done deal, and has been for some time. It's all over but the shouting. The legislation represents too much of a gravy train for insurance companies to be allowed to die. The bill ie Obamacare is far from ideal, but it does represent a giant step toward universal health care, long overdue in the U.S. As for the political repercussions of the thing, I figure Obama will be "in like Flynn," with American voters, or more accurately, in like Franklin Roosevelt.
Sterling Greenwood/Aspen Free Press

Posted by: AspenFreePress | March 16, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

As we can see, the only people who support the criminal Obamacare SCAM (in all its Orwellian, manipulative versions) are Obama's accomplices (ACORN-types paid with our money to help the dictator lie and manipulate us) and those who have been dumbed down by a substandard and politicized education as per the warnings of Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6KUDv1wzraWhwlBt1
==================== So, people that don't see your point of view are either covert Obama shills, or stupid because of public education... Make absolutist statements much? Oh wait, Antonio Sosa.. of course you do!

Posted by: Crucialitis | March 16, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse


I don't like to push the bill down.

Can someone remind me, what have the Republican offered on the table?

I only hear 'start-over' but nothing concrete.

Posted by: bobby13 | March 16, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Independent4tw, here's two accomplishments:

1. Obama has opened our eyes to the machinations of our enemies, bent on destroying our country through "progressives" (Marxists) like Obama and his comrades.

2. Obama has awaken and united millions of patriotic and honest Americans who are ready to do whatever necessary to defend their country and their future (and the future of their children and grandchildren) from the abomination of Obamacare and other Marxist scams.

Posted by: AntonioSosa | March 16, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Chris, I've noticed that you and Ezra Klein and other Post bloggers always use polling that compares Obamacare's overall unpopularity with some of the more popular items like no denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions (although a more nuanced discussion could reveal even the downside of this requirement)and use the results as an argument about how thrilled people will be if Obmacare passses and all those popular items come into being over the next few years. How about a poll that asks people about the unpopular aspects of Obamacare: like tax increases, premium increases, massive cuts to Medicare (which is already going broke), mandatory health insurance (fines if you don't get the government mandated level of coverage), massive increases in the federal bureacacy, etc.? Where's that poll?

Posted by: RobT1
-----------------------
What tax increases? The ones ones that will only effect people who make more then $250k a year? Those tax increases? The deficit spending each year is going to be reduced, so our children will have to pay less in taxes from this bill.

What premium increase? The 14% increase for people with private insurance that will be offset by tax breaks and will net nearly no increase? What about the other 70% of this country that will have LOWER premiums because of this bill? Do you not care about them?

Massive cuts to medicare? You mean the cuts to the tax breaks that insurance companies get from the medicare fund? You mean the cuts to fraud and abuse? You mean the cuts that every knows will not effect anyone's coverage? Why do you want our medicare fund to pay for tax breaks to private insurance companies? Do you work for an insurance company?

Mandatory health insurance? You mean making everyone have insurance so that they can't go without insurance till they get sick, and then charge everyone else for their ER bills? Why do you support people gaming the system and making other people pay their bills?

Massive increase in government bureaucracy? Thats news to me, I would love to have you elaborate on how this bill does that. Unless you are saying that we need to deregulate the health industry so that we can make the health insurance monopolies stronger, which I would expect from someone who seems to be lobbying for insurance profits.

Why aren't you railing against the insurance companies for posting $12 billion dollars in record profits last year while they raise premiums by 39% this year?

The truth about this reform is that many people who stand to lose money will lie about it in order to prevent it from passing. THAT is why insurance companies are spending RECORD AMOUNTS OF MONEY LOBBYING AGAINST this reform. They probably pay you.

Posted by: Independent4tw | March 16, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Representatives Boner, Bachmann and the tea bagging GOP nation have completely lost it.

I still get a kick out of Boener not knowing the difference between the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence!!

http://www.politico.com/singletitlevideo.html?bcpid=19407224001&bctid=48488521001

Posted by: ovechkin | March 16, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

The Democrats are doing to health care what the Republicans did to us with Iraq. The crazy thing is that after we throw out the Democrats, we get the Republicans that we threw out last time. When will it stop? It will stop after we, the people, stop electing office-seekers and start electing our neighbors to a maximum of two terms in office.

Posted by: h2co3 | March 16, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Nobama care please I just want some American pie

A little choice and some fresh ideas that are homecooked instead of taken out of the recipe books of falling euro countrys

Posted by: Donald03 | March 16, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

As we can see, the only people who support the criminal Obamacare SCAM (in all its Orwellian, manipulative versions) are Obama's accomplices (ACORN-types paid with our money to help the dictator lie and manipulate us) and those who have been dumbed down by a substandard and politicized education as per the warnings of Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6KUDv1wzraWhwlBt1

The dumbed down are obviously unable to understand that Obamacare will further contribute to “the American descent into Marxism,” which “is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop of a passive, hapless sheeple…” http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-american_capitalism-0

Fortunately, most Americans have not been dumbed down. Most Americans are not sheeple. Most Americans prefer to be FREE.

Posted by: AntonioSosa | March 16, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Independent4tw
Name two of Obama's accomplishments.

Posted by: jcory | March 16, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

REMEMBER IN November!!!

If the average middle class American does not do what his boss wants, he gets fired. Since the Congress and Administration plan to ram a healthcare bill into law the American people do not want, they should be FIRED. It is time to VOTE THEM OUT!!! The Congress and Administration want to use a process that was never intended to be used for this purpose to ram this bill into law against the will of the American people. This sets a dangerous precedent that subverts our system of government. Anyone that votes in favor of this bill is the enemy of our system of government. It is time to VOTE THEM OUT!!! ABRAHAM LINCOLN said “and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth”. The American people are the boss not the Congress or Administration. It is time to take our government back from the arrogant members of Congress and Administration who think they know better how we should live our lives than we do. It is time to VOTE THEM OUT!!!

REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER…VOTE THEM OUT!!!

Posted by: AngryMobVoter | March 16, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Independent4tw
Name two of Obama's accomplishments.

Posted by: jcory | March 16, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

THE ENTIRE QUESTION is whether Obama can do something that few people like AND GET AWAY WITH IT.


Obamataxes.


OBAMATAXES.

OBAMATAXES.

OBAMATAXES.

OBAMATAXES.


OBAMATAXES.

OBAMATAXES.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 16, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Obama's attempt at back door politics with the socialist pelosi is a veiled attack on America's majority who reject this socialist health care bill.
They want to ignore America's seniors who vehemently oppose the theft of 500 BILLION dollars from the medicare fund to support the health care bill.
November elections cannot come soon enough for us.
Obama's plan to bankrupt America is getting help from the liberal socialist.
America better wake up soon.

Posted by: spiris333 | March 16, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

I would think many of the so called independents are wondering what they did by electing this arrogant idiot into office. I still can't believe he is so stupid as to think he was voted in for any other reason than the country was angry at Bush. I am old enough to remember Carter and I believe the Democrats will see how much damage one man can do to there party in four years. With NBC cheering him on he is dooming many politicians to failure very soon.

Posted by: jcory
------------
I think that he has accomplished more in one year then Bush did in 8. You can smear all you want, but people still like Obama more then they like you, the republicans, or the teabaggers.

Posted by: Independent4tw | March 16, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Chris, I've noticed that you and Ezra Klein and other Post bloggers always use polling that compares Obamacare's overall unpopularity with some of the more popular items like no denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions (although a more nuanced discussion could reveal even the downside of this requirement)and use the results as an argument about how thrilled people will be if Obmacare passses and all those popular items come into being over the next few years. How about a poll that asks people about the unpopular aspects of Obamacare: like tax increases, premium increases, massive cuts to Medicare (which is already going broke), mandatory health insurance (fines if you don't get the government mandated level of coverage), massive increases in the federal bureacacy, etc.? Where's that poll?

Posted by: RobT1 | March 16, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

I agree with treehugger3. This is not about American public anymore, this is about Pelosi & Co and Obama's egos. But the main concern is a precedent. Yes, the precedent. Once they test drive this so called "vote", they'll start use it everywhere, and the next thing we know is - we are "begging" our Dear Comrade Obama to accept a lifelong presidency over United States.

Posted by: valbmet
----------------
You are an example of how most people who are against this reform are ignorant.

Bush used this EXACT strategy to pass his tax cuts almost 10 years ago. You are completely out of touch with reality.

Posted by: Independent4tw | March 16, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Glenn Beck, the voice of far rightwing radicals, attacks the Church now:

"Few people are better at making accusations with code words than Glenn Beck, the Fox News celebrity. With his chalkboard logic, Beck creates conspiracies that almost always make him a savior against anything named "Democrat" or "Obama." Ordinarily, it is convenient to ignore such prattle as just as empty as Beck's interpretation of history, but now he is using his lies and distortions to take on my Church.

The irrepressible Mr. Beck has made quite a stir recently by equating priests who promote the social justice ministry as Communists and Fascists. Beck calls on Catholics to switch parishes and report social justice priests to the bishop. (Beck's broad brush includes other denominations as well, but I know Catholicism best.) Forget that his plan to "rat on" priests is the same strategy of the Hitler Youth and the Polish Communist Party, and just examine the porous logic of his rant. While I think others like Fr. Martin of America have provided a more developed analysis this is my perspective.

Beck claims that the Bible does not promote economic and social justice. But look at Acts 2: 44-45: "And all that believed were together, and had all things in common; and they sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all, according as any man had need." And just so there is no mistake, this model of economic justice is repeated in Acts 4: 32. These passages echo Jesus' words about "selling everything and giving it to the poor" (Mt. 19: 21) and about how hard it is for rich people to get into heaven (Lk. 18:25). I don't know what bible Beck is reading, but it's not the Catholic one. "

It's too bad this board gets flooded with morons when they crawl out of their holes at noon.

Posted by: drindl | March 16, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

This is the result of the opposition being uniformly against any progress tied to Democrats.

More filibusters than EVER and we're surprised they're breaking out unprecedented procedures? They've had unprecedented delay!

Posted by: Crucialitis | March 16, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I would think many of the so called independents are wondering what they did by electing this arrogant idiot into office. I still can't believe he is so stupid as to think he was voted in for any other reason than the country was angry at Bush. I am old enough to remember Carter and I believe the Democrats will see how much damage one man can do to there party in four years. With NBC cheering him on he is dooming many politicians to failure very soon.

Posted by: jcory | March 16, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

The voters are sick of Obama -


All the democrats seem to be trying to convince themselves - let's jam this through now, and the voters will all forget by November.

What a way to govern. It is pathetic. No one is going to forget.

Obama is completely out of touch with this country.

Obama should have been working on the economy and jobs the WHOLE TIME - Obama is personally prolonging the recession - AND EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR HIM IS PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR PUTTING AN INEXPERIENCED PERSON IN THERE.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 16, 2010 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Healthcare Corporations are a major link in the cash cycle: civilian, get a poor education by watching massive hours of TV, become lazy and fat, obese and unhealthy, get medications, goto hospitals, get insurance, get stressed, get divorced, get unemployed, get sick, eat more crappy food, get sick, get medicine, see doctor...CEO's make mucho money...the American way! Why can't anyone just say it plainly? The Republican Party works for corporate America. These politicians are simply lobbyists with government titles. Every time President Obama looks to tame industry, carbon levels, Wall Street, health insurance companies, and lobbyists, the Republicans, come riding to their collective rescue. It has been proven over and over again that they are the mantle holder for the wealthiest Americans. Their recent president almost destroyed our Country. They have completely duped the Christian community into thinking that they are God's choice, despite the clear indicators that they are not in any sense, good for this nation. There is only one answer; this Party clearly understands the power of propaganda. This is clearly seen in their control of media. I am appalled at the continued slandering of this President and his populace protecting agenda, they have the gall to claim the word “patriotic”. They called this Nation's elected President a liar on National Television, what a neat sound bite for the Republican distortion based machine. Distortion rhymes with extortion by the way. Make no mistake about it, “We the people...” do not run this nation, a wise populace can not keep pandering to corporate America's defiant and ultimate inner circle obstructionist's; The Republican Party. American's listen to me! That is their job, they are paid handsomely, oh, by our tax dollar's too!, to do what they do, to protect the nations elite, the untouchables.(The number one example is the Dick Cheney and Haliburton affair, the love is deep and unquestionable!) 97% of us are sacrificed for the peak dwelling 3%. Check the French Revolution! Stop being powerless! Get behind your President, stop listening to the “fear” mongers, tune them out, this man means to protect us, the 97%, you and I, the non-privileged. Republican's and corporate America have never been so hard pressed to create “fear” and “illusions”.

WAKE UP AMERICA, vastly intelligent and honest world leaders are far and few between.

Apocalyptic Ego Blizzard

Posted by: Novacancy13 | March 16, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I distinctly heard Obama say there would be
a "straight up and down vote".... so is this another Obama flip-flop?
Can't Democrats face the fact that NOBODY WANTS THE BILL., NOBODY WANTS OBAMACARE.
This should be a red flag that maybe they're not doing something right, maybe
something's wrong with it......
Are there Any adults left in the White House?

Posted by: ohioan | March 16, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

If it passes, and they focus on the economy as the top priority, everyone will forget by November. It's not even summer yet. Voters in November don't remember anything before June.

Posted by: Crucialitis | March 16, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

The tricks Pelosi, Reid and Obama are now playing on the American people are INCREDULOUS!

They do not have the votes in their own majority, so now they will connive to avoid a vote. In the old USSR, this was called a dictatorship. Is that what we have become under Pelosi, Reid and Obama??

This is nothing more than a power play by the Idiots Three! November cannot come soon enough!

Posted by: wheeljc | March 16, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it interesting to see first hand how anti-democratic Democrats are when they an agenda? Bribes, closed door meetings, a complete lack of integrity, threats and intimidation against elected officials in their own party.

No, I don't miss the sheer incompetence of the Bush Administration, but this process goes against everything we Americans are taught in Civics class.

If this bill is so good, why are the Democrats keeping the text secret?

Why do they need to bribe their own fellow party members will millions or hundreds of millions in special deals to buy their votes?

Why do they have to threaten to fine and jail Americans for not purchasing health insurance?

Why do they say cutting $500 million from Medicare will improve its long-term financial stability? Is there ANY reader hear from either party STUPID enough to believe that?

Why do they say they can spend each dollar twice?

They have boxed themselves in a corner. If they fail to pass this obscenity, they will be considered incompetent.

If they pass it, they have signed their party's own death warrant.

Can't blame the Republicans on this one.

This if purely self inflicted.

Posted by: BudMiller | March 16, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

The process story is ridiculous and the vast majority of the public is in favor of everything in the bill.
This is a case of the Republicans defining the bill before the Democrats did.
Pass the bill and then sell it to the public is the only way to go.

Posted by: capemh | March 16, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

"The stench of the lies, manipulation, intimidation, coercion, bribery, corruption"

Well, the idea behind reconciliation is that all this stuff will be eliminated. I imagine you're in favor of reconciliation, right? Because if you aren't, that's pretty hypocritical.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 16, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

I agree with treehugger3. This is not about American public anymore, this is about Pelosi & Co and Obama's egos. But the main concern is a precedent. Yes, the precedent. Once they test drive this so called "vote", they'll start use it everywhere, and the next thing we know is - we are "begging" our Dear Comrade Obama to accept a lifelong presidency over United States.

Posted by: valbmet | March 16, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Lots more people with their hair on fire.

The denial stage (this will never pass!)
is over.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Where is the CBO scoring for the latest iteration of this constitutionally-flawed legislation?

How can Pelosi and company even be talking about a vote or passage until they see the new numbers?

Has anyone heard Obama use the word veto regarding this bill?

That's what I thought. He doesn't care what is in the final product as long as it is labeled Health Care Reform and will get his narcissistic name in the history books.

I voted for Obama but am a firm NO on ObamaCare!

Posted by: wcochran60 | March 16, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

As for this latest bit of chicanery that Pelosi has cooked up. The 1998 SCOTUS decision (CLINTON v. CITY OF NEW YORK (97-1374) 985 F. Supp. 168, affirmed) clearly indicates that you cannot change so much as a comma between what the House and Senate pass and the President signs. The "Constitutional scholar" in the White House needs to give Pelosi a call and bring her up to speed on the fact that they can expect no friendly ruling from their friends on the SCOTUS on this.

Posted by: CincinnatiRIck | March 16, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Do any of the tea bagging GOP'ers work? They travel from event to event in massive buses where they scream like lunatics; waving their their hate-filled signs. Who's paying these baggers to make such public fools of themselves? Why aren't they at work?

Posted by: ovechkin | March 16, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

"The stench of the lies, manipulation, intimidation, coercion, bribery, corruption, and backroom deals "

oh look, the crank is talking about Jack Abramoff and his repubican cronies.

Posted by: drindl | March 16, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

IMPEACH Obama, Pelosi and Reid! They are trampling on our Constitution, our country, our future, and our FREEDOM!

Posted by: AntonioSosa | March 16, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

twisting numbers, into nonsense,
good job Chris, your pat on the
butt is waiting at whitehouse.pork
and you even got a Google News Link!!
sweet jakarta! might be your big chance
to do a little snorkling in the oval
office with Robby Gibbs. have fun!!

Posted by: simonsays1 | March 16, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Health care reform? FIRST, DO NO HARM. (See below):

ATTENTION HOMELAND SECURITY (Secret Service, FEMA) / FBI / PENTAGON / DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE / INTERNAL AFFAIRS INVESTIGATORS-INSPECTORS GENERAL
(also members of Congress and the Obama administration):

Your immediate attention is directed to the following articles and appended comments by veteran journalist Victor Livingston:

http://nowpublic.com/world/u-s-silently-tortures-americans-cell-tower-microwaves
http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america

These articles expose serious government wrongdoing, including apparent crimes against humanity and the Constitution.

Corrective action is immediately required. Thank you.

Posted by: scrivener50 | March 16, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

If this passes as it sits, I wonder which community colleges will have openings for political science teachers of the Democrat persuasion when mid terms are over?

The only thing I care about is, why should I have to do with less so you can have more?

Posted by: r_leever | March 16, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Drindl, you should read the John Chait piece that Klein linked to in that post. It's great.

Shrink, I just don't pay attention to personal lies unless it's impossible to avoid (Obamas, Sanfords, Edwards) But it's just like perfect natural harmony. The fact that she's a teabagger. Well, I think the irony is fattening.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 16, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

We are watching the final countdown of the implosion of the Democratic party as the Obamacare stench becomes more and more disgusting.

The stench of the lies, manipulation, intimidation, coercion, bribery, corruption, and backroom deals to force us to swallow the Obamacare SCAM -- which would destroy our health care, our economy, our freedoms and our country -- has forever tainted the Democratic Party and demonstrate the degree of corruption, bribery and fraud we can expect from Obama and his comrades as they continue to enslave us through their Marxist schemes.

More and more Americans understand there's no longer a Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has been replaced by the Progressive (Marxist) party, controlled by U.S. enemies like George Soros and bent on destroying America using the tactics of their Marxist mentor Saul Alinsky.

Posted by: AntonioSosa | March 16, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Pretty amazing how they took all the congressional districts and cherry picked *ONLY* the ones that heavily supported Obama. In other words, if you didn't live it a craphole slum are are not on the bottom end of the economic scale, you're probably not in support of this bill that will cost you more and screw up your healthcare. The fact is their poll numbers are reversed if you ask *ALL* Americans. Why do we have to lie this stuff in? Why can't the media be unbiased? Because they have a big stake in all of this. Put out the Shill Warning. The Washington post needs to do a real poll with real people instead of simply cherry picking people in low income districts. This only promotes class warfare.

This healthcare bill is designed to make the dependent class more dependent. And then for the rest of us that have been telling the government to get out of our lives, we'll be forced into their craphole system liek the rest of the masses people that are dependent on the government for subsitence.

This healthcare bill is nothing but declaring war on the middle class.

"...by the consent of the governed..."

I DO NOT CONSENT! TAKE YOUR SOCIALIST HEALTH CARE AN RAM IT INTO YOUR DISHONEST POLITICIAN EAR!

Posted by: GeeBo1 | March 16, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

The full-disclosure of the bill will eventually be seen at the doctors office for the people who this bill really matters ......

Most people returning their taxes for year ended 2009 would assume , if they could the dollars per premium they are now paying as opposed to the dollars and cents they would be paying come 2011.......

For the doctors who make their practices work @ 4 cents per dollars would now return their taxes with the same thought in mind........

A sure case for the haves vs the have-nots...
The rich getting richer where-as the poor never started.......
britain and france went thru this same process , recall when Blair made it at 10 downing street and the numbers dont lie.....
okey dokey
salil.

Posted by: salilghoshal | March 16, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

I know it's difficult for you DDAWD but try concentrating on the issues instead of name-calling.

Without a doubt, the current system needs reform. A plan that would introduce day-to-day market forces, substantially reducing prices in the longterm. These same market forces dramatically reduced long-distance calling rates, computing prices, gave us all inexpensive cell phones and televisions and hotel rooms, etc, etc.

True market competition consistently produces lower costs all while new innovations and advances are introduced for the American people. Consumers buy cheaper, better, faster which rewards the providers that get it right and eliminates those that don't.

A centralized control structure based in Washington is not freedom nor is it a competitve market nor should it be expected to reduce costs. And those that would trade our freedom of choice for a fairy tale of insurance premium security should revisit the principles that made this nation great to begin with. Here's a hint, it wasn't a dependency on government programs.

Many years ago, patients paid their doctor first then received reimbursement from their insurance company. The realization of actual cost of services and "inconvenience" of paying your medical bills was itself a major cost control. Now many want a discount card to see the doctor for $20 anytime they want. That isn't insurance.

Posted by: jdm2112 | March 16, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Ezra Klein;

"Reconciliation has been used with increasing frequency," writes Brooks. "That was bad enough. But at least for the Bush tax cuts or the prescription drug bill, there was significant bipartisan support." The outcome of letting reconciliation go from rare and bipartisan to common and partisan is that we will go from a Senate where "people are usually pretty decent to one another" to a Senate that "bleaches out normal behavior and the normal instincts of human sympathy."

Chilling stuff, huh?

But none of Brooks's evidence is true. Literally none of it. The budget reconciliation process was used six times between 1980 and 1989. It was used four times between 1990 and 1999. It was used five times between 2000 and 2009. And it has been used zero times since 2010. Peak reconciliation use, in other words, was in the '80s, not the Aughts. The data aren't hard to find. They were published on Brooks's own op-ed page.

Nor has reconciliation been limited to bills with "significant bipartisan support." To use Brooks's example of the tax cuts, the 2003 tax cuts passed the Senate 50-50, with Dick Cheney casting the tie-breaking vote. Two Democrats joined with the Republicans in that effort. Georgia's Zell Miller, who would endorse George W. Bush in 2004 and effectively leave the Democratic Party, and Nebraska's Ben Nelson. So I'd say that's one Democrat. One Democrat alongside 49 Republicans. That's not significant bipartisan support.

Another example: In 1993, Bill Clinton passed the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act. The final tally was, again, a tie broken by the vice president. In this case, not a single Republican voted for the bill.

To recap, Brooks argued that reconciliation is being used more frequently, and that past reconciliation bills, like Bush's tax cuts and prescription drug benefit, were bipartisan."

Posted by: drindl | March 16, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

CC I am going to remind you of this in four months time
"But, passing the legislation may look like a cakewalk when compared to the task of reversing public opinion about the bill that Democrats will face between now and November."

Public opinion will turn to 60% in favor of passing the legislation by the end of July. And it won't be coincidental that this will coincide with Unemployment dropping below 9% in June.

Posted by: AndyR3 | March 16, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

'Pass this bill and you can forget my *Democrat* vote in November.'

you are not a Democrat or you would not use that transparent winger form. jerk. A lot of pretend dems on today.

Posted by: drindl | March 16, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

This bill is not about health care anymore, it is about power and politics exclusively; however, I'm not certain anyone even knows what is in the 2,000+ pages bill. It is easy to vilify the “greedy insurance companies” and/or “rich people” but does anyone critically analyze the carefully scripted rhetoric being fed to us from the White House or do we mindlessly consume this misinformation?

Posted by: treehugger3 | March 16, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Every yes vote for this bill (or any other parlor games Pelosi plays in her no-holds or bribes barred obsessed efforts to sneak this unconstitutional pile through), equates to an incumbent being sent to the unemployment line in November.

American's are awake, watching and taking names!

Posted by: wcochran60 | March 16, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Clarence Thomas has a white wife?

Ok, I'll start.
How could you not know that?

Here is another tidbit, his favorite movie is Saving Private Ryan.

More seriously, the concentration of executive power, recently facilitated or exacerbated depending on your perspective by the "conservative" SCOTUS has created another paradox for Republicans. When they call Obama King, perhaps they don't realize how this concentration of authority, the Imperial Presidency, occurred.

To you Republicans talking about another American Revolution, you who voted Bush/Cheney twice, does the phrase Signing Statements ring a bell? A hyper-political DOJ?

But now we are raging about Presidential power? I say...ramming speed!

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

yeah dawd -- a blondie. not only that, but she's a proud supporter of the Confederacy. that sad, simple, self-hating man.

Posted by: drindl | March 16, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Pass this bill and you can forget my Democrat vote in November. I live in Nevada and Reid has always been out and Dina Titus was a question mark. Now this congresswoman will be out and I have been in touch with Joe Heck, the Republican.

Posted by: farmsnorton | March 16, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

This is the most blatant & disgraceful (and desperate) attempt to control another 1/6 of the economy.

This isn't about health care anymore.

If it takes something like this to pass something so incredibly vital to our economy and future, it's simply a bad, bad idea.

Are people getting this? It's not something to mess around with, no matter who caused the problem.

Posted by: FormerDemNowIndy | March 16, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

The existing government run health care systems are running negative cash flows now and are projected to be bankrupt by 2017. Why on earth would anyone think of subsidizing even more people to be put on these systems?

Posted by: flatlander1992 | March 16, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Many supported Obama during his election campaign, when he said "doctor of choice". But he basically meant "doctor we choose for you". I am speaking of the broad spectrum of holistic and natural health care practitioners that will not benefit under this plan. It reads more like a dictatorship funding big insurance and more money for big pharmaceuticals than it does something many of us need for our health coverage. Why should we be forced to pay for something we don't want or need? www.HealingNews.com

Sure, health care needs revamped. But this bill needs more work to be fair for all of us. It should be tabled, re-worked, and lobbyists' budgets restricted to really be fair.

Posted by: HealingNews | March 16, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Well, this is essentially an anonymous board and I don't ever plan to run for political office, so I guess I can say this.

*ahem*

Clarence Thomas has a white wife?

Man, I can't even think of a word for how apt that is. How beautifully symmetrical.

It just seems like a perfect condensation of everything the man seems to be.

I'm in a weird mental state right now.

Ok, start flaming me.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 16, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

"What's with all the conservatives arguing that the President should meddle in the economy? I thought the economy could/would/should take care of itself without government intervention."

bsimon1, I've wondered about this line of logic myself. It seems like, for every person now kvetching that President Obama shouldn't be bothering with this silly health care nonsense and should be concentrating on the economy, there's another person who was dead-set against his doing anything to get involved with the economy back in the winter of 2009.

But I think what conservatives calling for Obama to "work on" the economy want is things they wouldn't really consider "meddling" per se -- tax breaks, deregulation, etc. Whether something like a tax break for the wealthy is considered meddling or the opposite is a debate I'm not going to get involved in.

Anyway, these days, conservatives don't really default toward "less government" any more than liberals do; members of both groups reason more along the lines of, "less government involvement except when I can think of a way it might benefit me or people I like."

Posted by: GJonahJameson | March 16, 2010 1:35 PM | Report abuse

if health care reform failed ,millions of people may die .
please forget about Republicans ,pass health care reform NOW.

Posted by: reformss
------------------------------------------
How many will die after economic collapse???

Posted by: leapin | March 16, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Get the fork ready for the Pawlenty Presidential campaign. Yesterday's oral arguments before the MN Supreme Court did not seem to bode well for Governor Pawlenty winning his case. Recall that to balance the MN budget last year, the governor took it upon himself, rather than call a special session for the Lege, to 'unallot' various programs unilaterally, resulting in a challenge of the unallotment statute on constitutional grounds. Court watchers are speculating that the supremes are less than enthusiastic about endorsing the governor's interpretation of the law, and will potentially rein it in significantly, if not strike it down entirely. If that happens, watch for a fiscal disaster to strike Minnesota, as the spending bills signed last year by Gov Pawlenty created a budget shortfall to the tune of nearly $3 billion, after he vetoed the revenue bill that provided the necessary funding. gov Pawlenty talks a good game about keeping government small, but he hasn't executed very well in his tenure. Here in MN the structural deficiencies of the state budget have grown worse under his tenure. Promote him to President? We can do better.

http://www.minnpost.com/ericblack/2010/03/15/16655/supreme_court_asks_pawlentys_unallotment_lawyers_tough_questions

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 16, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Hey Chris, what about polling on the costs rather than the benefits of the bill? Did the Democrats do that? What about pollling on the decrease in Medicare coverage for seniors? Did the Democrats do that?

I think there is a lot more than just message, message is whistling in the dark past the political cemetery of the Democratic majority.

Posted by: krush01 | March 16, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

If the Democrats pass health care reform and lose the House and/or Senate in November, so be it. At least they will have something tangible to show for their brief supermajority in Washington.

If the bill is good, it will eventually be recognized as such by the voters, and the Republicans will just have to gnash their reptilian teeth in frustration. If the bill is bad, it will be amended or repealed -- something a future GOP Congress and president no doubt will do with great relish.

That's how democracy works, people. Learn to deal with it.

Posted by: PeterPrinciple | March 16, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Uh oh, Republicans are losing it...again.
This is as bad as when Obama got elected.
First the denial, then the rage, oh the rage...So, when do we get to the rationalization and acceptance stages?

Maybe Elizabeth KR's stages of grieving/loss don't apply to Republicans. They only do denial and rage. There is a dissertation in there somewhere.

They see the health care industry stimulus package as the end of the world.

But Millenarians are always looking for the end of the world.

My advice to Republicans? It never changes, go with what you know, buy more gold and of course, more ammo.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

"Obama should be concentrating on the economy."


What's with all the conservatives arguing that the President should meddle in the economy? I thought the economy could/would/should take care of itself without government intervention.

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 16, 2010 1:04 PM | Report abuse

drivl, it's arguable whether that's really short selling, but whatever.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 16, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone mentioned the fact that, while in theory sociailized medical care sounds like a good and noble idea, the government would do a terrible job actually managing this system. Have you ever looked at how VA hospitals are run? Terribly, that is how. Do you think a non-profit entity will be concerned with budgeting and making efficent business decisions? No! If governement controls this thing there will be no accountability for the money taxpayers have to put up to run this thing. As much as insurance companies are scum they operate for profit and therefore are effective. The costs for government run health care will skyrocket year after year.

Posted by: BuckeyeBiz | March 16, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

I am sick of republicans ,I will never vote for them again .
They are so crazy people .The health care reform bill now is similar to their bill back in 1993 ,so why they oppose It ???
according to Republican party Sarah Palin is the smartest one in group and here is what She said " We used to hustle on over the border for health care ....and I think,isn't that kind of ironic now ? " She admitting that her family used to go to Canada for medical treatment when she was a child , Canada has a single -payer system , which Palin oppose ! (Too bad for Canadian tax payers )
Limbaugh the second smart one in the group also said " I'll just tell you this, if this passes and it's five years from now and all that stuff gets implemented -- I am leaving the country. I'll go to Costa Rica." .well too bad ,Costa Rica has had health care for all in 60 years already.( should Costa Rica taxpayer cover health care for this mad man ? )
Republicans :
Don't You learn any thing from housing crisis ? like housing cost in the past ,health care cost is out of control .the next crisis will be health care crisis if health care reform failed ,millions of people may die .
please forget about Republicans ,pass health care reform NOW.

Posted by: reformss | March 16, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

good point Chris!!!!
let's start another war!!
and give free healthcare to
mexicans and muslims.

Posted by: simonsays1 | March 16, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

because you misremembered and you actually got your money shortselling on intrade despite the fact that shortselling is impossible on intrade.

teeheehee, you're such a dumb f*ck. No wonder you idolize George Bush.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 16, 2010 12:32 PM

wrong dawd, short selling is permitted on intrade.com

https://www.intrade.com/aav2/rulesAndFaqs.jsp?helpPage=trading#ten

Posted by: doof | March 16, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

The Liberals have a good point - this Senate bill is garbage - they should either get rid of it - or go all the way to a Medicare-expansion type program.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 16, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

"I can say that I can afford to buy a Rolls Royce, without going into debt, by using my inheritance from a rich uncle. But, in the real world, the question would arise immediately whether I in fact have a rich uncle, not to mention whether this hypothetical rich uncle would be likely to leave me enough money to buy a Rolls Royce. "

Of course, the proper response would be to launch into a huge tirade as to how everyone's a dumb lib and you're the smartest person in the world and how you're so rich with a yacht and everyone will fail at everything except you because you misremembered and you actually got your money shortselling on intrade despite the fact that shortselling is impossible on intrade.

teeheehee, you're such a dumb f*ck. No wonder you idolize George Bush.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 16, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

On paper, you can treat Medicare like the hypothetical rich uncle who is going to leave me enough money to buy a Rolls Royce. But only on paper. In real life, you can't get blood from a turnip, and you can't keep on getting money from a Medicare program that is itself running out of money.

An even more transparent gimmick is collecting money for the new Obama health care program for the first ten years but delaying the payments of its benefits for four years. By collecting money for 10 years and spending it for only 6 years, you can make the program look self-supporting, but only on paper and only in the short run.

This is a game you can play just once, during the first decade. After that, you are going to be collecting money for 10 years and paying out money for 10 years. That is when you discover that your uncle doesn't have enough money to support himself, much less leave you an inheritance to pay for a Rolls Royce.

But a postponed revelation is not part of the official federal deficit today. And that provides a talking point, in order to soothe people who take talking points seriously.

Fraud has been at the heart of this medical care takeover plan from day one. The succession of wholly arbitrary deadlines for rushing this massive legislation through, before anyone has time to read it all, serves no other purpose than to keep its specifics from being scrutinized-- or even recognized-- before it becomes a fait accompli and "the law of the land."

Would you buy a used car under these conditions, even if it was a Rolls Royce?


sowell

Posted by: drivl | March 16, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

I can say that I can afford to buy a Rolls Royce, without going into debt, by using my inheritance from a rich uncle. But, in the real world, the question would arise immediately whether I in fact have a rich uncle, not to mention whether this hypothetical rich uncle would be likely to leave me enough money to buy a Rolls Royce.

In politics, however, you can say all sorts of things that have no relationship with reality. If you have a mainstream media that sees no evil, hears no evil and speaks no evil-- when it comes to Barack Obama-- you can say that you will pay for a vast expansion of government-provided insurance by taking money from the Medicare budget and using other gimmicks.

Posted by: drivl | March 16, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

"Given the need to immediately begin changing public perception about the bill if it passes this weekend, is anyone else surprised that President Obama appears to be going forward with his plan to travel to southeast Asia immediately after the House vote?"

no. obama knows it won't pass. best for him to be out of town.

Posted by: doof | March 16, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

IMPEACH Obama, Pelosi and Reid! They are trampling on our Constitution, our country, our future, and our FREEDOM!

Posted by: AntonioSosa | March 16, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

What is that smell?
Just another day of the Republican
tire fire.

How many months in a row can they predict doom, civil war, today we heard of the need for a military coup, hyperinflation, Chinese required in grammar school...it is getting ridiculous. People can't be terrified all day every day. The momentum of the Republican Rising! has peaked; there is only so far you can go with the electorate if you have no accomplishments, nothing but dire predictions to sell.

Meanwhile, the economic recovery is in full swing, it is not stopping and it is not going too fast either. All those upside down loans are going to take a long time to be written down, which keeps the pace from overheating.


Posted by: shrink2 | March 16, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"Despite all that we agree on and all the Republican ideas we've incorporated, many Republicans in Congress just have a fundamental disagreement over whether we should have more or less oversight of insurance companies,"

"Now, I don't believe we should give the government or insurance companies more control over health care in America. I believe it's time to give you, the American people, more control over your own health insurance,"

"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

Posted by: drindl | March 16, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

What will kick in this year:


"Offer tax credits to small businesses to purchase coverage;

Prohibit pre-existing condition exclusions for children in all new plans;

Provide immediate access to insurance for uninsured Americans who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition through a temporary high-risk pool;

Prohibit dropping people from coverage when they get sick in all individual plans;

Eliminate lifetime limits and restrictive annual limits on benefits in all plans;

Require premium rebates to enrollees from insurers with high administrative expenditures and require public disclosure of the percent of premiums applied to overhead costs;

Ensure consumers have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to appeal new insurance plan decisions;

Require plans to cover an enrollee's dependent children until age 26;

Require new plans to cover preventive services and immunizations without cost-sharing;

Relief on the Donut Hole.

Congress has been debating health care reform for years and the American people deserve an up or down vote. We shouldn't hide behind rules to prevent us from going on record and casting a vote for or against reform. This is about giving Americans what they're entitled to: a clear vote showing what people stand for and believe and where the majority vote rules.

Posted by: drindl | March 16, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

That is the key - usually the Congress is able to kill unpopular bills before they pick up all this steam - Obama has only himself to blame for making this situation worse and worse.

Obama should be concentrating on the economy.

Obama - by distracting everyone in Washington - is prolonging the economic crisis and making everything worse for the country.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 16, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

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