Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity

"Live Fix" Chat: Charlie Crist, House special elections and the biggest political gaffes

This morning we spent an hour fielding questions from Fixistas on Gov. Charlie Crist's political future (if any), the upcoming House special elections and on where Gordon Brown's live mic incident earlier this week ranked on the all time political gaffe list.

We call it the "Live Fix" and it goes down every week from 11 am to noon. Be there!

To give you a taste of the chat, we excerpted a few of our favorite question and answers below.

Q: Resigning Incumbents
Why is there not more pressure put on incumbents to stay in office when their parties will certainly suffer from their resignations? In Hawaii, couldn't the Dems trouble have been avoided?

A. Chris Cillizza
GREAT question.

The truth is that there IS considerable pressure put on incumbents not to resign -- unless they are named Eric Masa -- for just the reason you outline: it creates a messy (or potentially messy) race to replace them.

Take Neil Abercrombie. His decision to vacate his Hawaii seat to focus full time on running for governor has created significant political peril for Democrats as they try to hold a seat the President carried with 70 percent of the vote in 2008.

National Democrats urged Abercrombie to stay -- make no mistake about that. But, he believed his chances of winning the governorship were dependent on him getting out of Congress and so out he got.

Ah, politics.

Q. Meek's Chances
Since when did Florida become so conservative that TWO Republicans would both be running ahead of a Democrat in a three-way race? Is it just name ID at this stage? If so, what do you think Meek's chances are and what constituencies can he assemble (African Americans, law enforcement, liberals?) to reach 33%+1?

A. Chris Cillizza
I think a lot of it has to do with name ID at this point (and Meek made the same point in a CNN interview yesterday).

Meek is a relatively junior Congressman from Miami while Crist is the governor and Rubio is the newest national star of the Republican party.

For Meek, the central question is whether he can raise enough money to get known enough for voters to pull the lever for him. That plan got more complicated this morning when billionaire Jeff Greene announced he was running for Senate as a Democrat.

Greene will spend enough to make Meek have to respond, a response that will drain precious dollars from the Congressman's campaign account.

Q: Tea and crumpets!
How closely have you been following the British elections? I assume you've seen Gordon Brown's "macaca" moment. Where do you rank that among the biggest flubs in electoral history? I never thought he was a great politician to begin with (he's no Tony Blair, for example) but this episode actually made me feel sorry for him.

A. Chris Cillizza
Biggest gaffes!

Not sure exactly where the Gordon Brown "hot mic" fits in but it has to be in the conversation with George H.W. Bush looking at his watch, Ed Muskie "crying" in New Hampshire and the Dean scream.

What others am I missing?

By Chris Cillizza  |  April 30, 2010; 4:54 PM ET
Categories:  Live Fix  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Florida Republican Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite Retires
Next: Twittering the White House Correspondents Dinner

Comments

"hat is by far the stupidest thing you have ever written. You are now officially entitled to an official slot as third stooge with all the associated ignorance and stupidity. Keep up the mindless personal attacks and someday you may usurp dummer stooge from Ped or drivl, although I seriously doubt you have the ability to focus longer than a few moments.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 11:16 PM | Report abuse "


Says the King of Mindless Personal Attacks.

Posted by: drindl | May 3, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

"Farther south, in the Louisiana peninsula that points toward the heart of the slick, hundreds of fishermen have been given [a free lunch?] the training required to put out the protective booms.

Rusty Gaudé, a Louisiana seafood extension agent, said, "If you're not carrying a gun, you're not on drugs, and you speak English, you can get a job."

This is an outrage!
On drugs, well, that is probably bad if you are trying to drop those orange floaty things in the water.

But, you can not carry your weapon?
Drug free, open carry people who speak English can't get a job?

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 11:54 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't let too many people know I had connections to code pink

==

some connection .. I have a sister acquainted with sone of them. Yeah, peering through the Venetian blinds o/~ waiting for the van to come o/~.

I think my investments in a Communist country and plans to expat there are a lot likelier to land me under the bright lights.

Anyway, I feel as you do about trumpeting a belief in God. I don't care how fashionable it is, it's still nutty.

Posted by: Noacoler | May 2, 2010 11:25 PM | Report abuse

Things are different for Obama because of the recession, but remember he did try to create a deficit commission which got vetoed down.
-----------------

Ddawd. That is by far the stupidest thing you have ever written. You are now officially entitled to an official slot as third stooge with all the associated ignorance and stupidity. Keep up the mindless personal attacks and someday you may usurp dummer stooge from Ped or drivl, although I seriously doubt you have the ability to focus longer than a few moments.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 11:16 PM | Report abuse

Wow. The whole Foxxy family is nuts. Sounds like the chick is tougher than the not male.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse

The Louisiana Department of Social Services (DSS) today reminded individuals that have been financially impacted by the disaster in the Gulf of Mexico that they could be eligible for the regular Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), formerly known as food stamps.
----------------------------------
Now, is ok for people to get food, or is that just another example of expecting something for nothing.

Or, is it ok for Republicans to get food stamps, but not Democrats.

Or is it ok for white Republicans to get food stamps, but not black Democrats.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 10:41 PM | Report abuse

37th' opinions are in demand. A conference call, who can believe that? 37th on a conference call. He sure doesn't work, so it's not an employer. What can it be...

Probably, a call from the White House asking him for strategy on how to be a better President. That's it, that's it for sure.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 10:30 PM | Report abuse

why don't we all just ignore DDAWD - he contributes nothing to the conversation - and rarely makes a point, unless it is wrong.

And DDAWD is anti-American - he has no commitment to the First Amendment.

Hey DDAWD - any other parts of the Bill of Rights that you hate???

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Ooooooooooooooh, 37th just had a conference call. Who with? Sure you were using phones?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DDAWD | May 2, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

why don't we all just ignore DDAWD - he contributes nothing to the conversation - and rarely makes a point, unless it is wrong.

And DDAWD is anti-American - he has no commitment to the First Amendment.

Hey DDAWD - any other parts of the Bill of Rights that you hate???

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler wrote,
"She went there with some code pink friends, one if whom tried to do a citizen's arrest."

I wouldn't let too many people know I had connections to code pink. I am aware of the Rove incident. The reason they knew it was a code pink lady is that she had a warrant written in crayon on Big Chief tablet paper.

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 10:21 PM | Report abuse

let's just ignore 37th. He's a buffoon. He's definitely disruptive, but Chris likes that 37th toes the party line, so whatever. Obviously the whole world knows this isn't Obama's fault, so why even try and argue.

Posted by: DDAWD | May 2, 2010 10:19 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


A conference call ??? is that it?? I just had a conference call - does that mean that I am doing anything for the oil spill ??

Obama messed up the response.

Obama wasted valuable time when the weather was good.

Obama also came out in favor of expanded offshore drilling - just weeks ago - so Obama SHOULD HAVE HAD A PLAN IN PLACE WHEN HE MADE THAT ANNOUNCEMENT.

OBAMA IS A COMPLETE FAILURE - all he did today was stick his finger out at Jindal.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 10:11 PM | Report abuse

BP has indicated it will reimburse volunteers at the rate of $10 per hour. Contractors are also hiring people to support shoreline clean up. Contractor rates go as high as $18 per hour for supervisors.
-------------------------------
BP is helping too.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Funny thing is that I tend to vote Democrat because they are more fiscally responsible. Republicans will throw around tax cuts, but that's not being fiscally responsible. Clinton was the only President in my life who even tried to balance the budget. Things are different for Obama because of the recession, but remember he did try to create a deficit commission which got vetoed down. This idea of Republicans being the more fiscally sound party is so hammered in by pundits that people who aren't paying attention will believe it. Republicans and Democrats both love social programs. Remember how much Republicans lost their sh it when Obama was proposing making cuts to medicare? And the government grew every year under Bush. Just that Dems make an attempt to pay for things.

Posted by: DDAWD | May 2, 2010 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Secretaries Janet Napolitano and Ken Salazar spoke by conference call to Governors Haley Barbour (MS), Bob Riley (AL), Rick Perry (TX), Charlie Crist (FL) and the Deputy Chief of Staff to Gov. Bobby Jindal (LA). Gov. Jindal was with President Obama. They briefed the Governors on the ongoing response to the BP oil spill in the gulf. They spoke specifically about efforts to stop the oil leaks and mitigating the oil's impact on the shorelines of their states. Additionally, they spoke about ways to enhance what has been strong cooperation between the federal government and the states. The Secretaries and Governors agreed to speak again on May 4.
--------------------------------
Sounds like federal and states are working together. Doesn't sound the the complete F'U that some are saying.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 9:57 PM | Report abuse

"Otherwise crickets. There is simply no capability for independent or original thought.
Posted by: Moonbat"

well, we all knew that.

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 9:52 PM | Report abuse

shrink wrote: Perfect solution, a ready made circle of blame, a toroid!, a circus.
-------------------------------------
Don't know what a toroid is, but can guess.

The only missing here are credit default swaps. And all the cross writing of swaps. As we speak, the credit ratings of the subcontractors, contractors, Transocean, BP and who knows, Louisiana bonds, are under review.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

My sister lives in Taos. Yesterday Kark Rove was at a book signing in Albuquerque. She went there with some code pink friends, one if whom tried to do a citizen's arrest. After that cooled down my sister got her picture taken with Rove and her signed book.... covered with a sign featuring an arrow pointing at Rove and beneath the words "War Criminal." Ol' Karl failed to see the humor.

I am very proud if her.

Posted by: Noacoler | May 2, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

My sister lives in Taos. Yesterday Kark Rove was at a book signing in Albuquerque. She went there with some code pink friends, one if whom tried to do a citizen's arrest. After that cooled down my sister got her picture taken with Rove and her signed book.... covered with a sign featuring an arrow pointing at Rove and beneath the words "War Criminal." Ol' Karl failed to see the humor.

I am very proud if her. R

Posted by: Noacoler | May 2, 2010 9:44 PM | Report abuse

@ddawd,

Actually the point I was making with the loooooooooooong list of federal aid being requested by the Rep Gulf State governors, wasn't that the federal government is always right, timely, prescient, or even effective. Because it makes mistakes like everyone else. But, it isn't worthless.

The point I was making is that all human beings are alike when faced with overwhelming catastrophe. They turn to the biggest, richest dude on the block for help i.e. the feds. Then, they beg, get down on their knees, face east, touch their foreheads and pray to get help. When you're facing catastophe, no one goes to their party platform, and says "hey, it says here government is the problem, so I guess I'll turn to my constituents and say--well, now's the time to practice what we preach".

The trouble I have with Republicans is that they do exactly what Brigade described: first, they are against it. Second, they use it. Third, they criticize everyone who uses it except themselves.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 9:38 PM | Report abuse

The bilious Ped checks in to voice her displeasure at the other posters. This deviant has been reduced to spreading feces only now. Not a single thoughtful comment left in her empty little commie head.

Between drivl, ped and dawd we could assemble our own little mindless hate cult. Not a shred of intelligent thought in the whole stooge gang.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 8:09 PM | Report abuse

It looks to me as if the oil sector has risk management figured out, just like Wall Street.

The rig is "owned" by a company that contracts with a company which in turn contracts with many other companies for people, parts and services. No problem, until...

Bad outcome? Perfect solution, a ready made circle of blame, a toroid!, a circus.

Who makes money?
Who loses?
Get it?

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 8:07 PM | Report abuse

You really hate the logic that the State and local authorities were PRIMARILY responsible for Katrina - they had been warned that it would come someday.

---

Care to get the report from the Army Corps of Engineers that the levees were only good for a Force 1 hurricane? I'll wait...

Somehow it escapes me as to if this oddball logic operates, why it suddenly flipped 18 months ago.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | May 2, 2010 7:41 PM | Report abuse

You really hate the logic that the State and local authorities were PRIMARILY responsible for Katrina - they had been warned that it would come someday.


So the DEMOCRATS HAD YEARS TO PREPARE.


But Bush was expected to come in on 24 hours notice - and clean up the entire mess the DEMOCRATS CREATED - right ???


Well - where is Obama this time???


Obama has WASTED TWO WEEKS - leaving valuable federal resources IDLE when the weather was good - now the weather is bad.


It is Obama's fault.


All the democrats who were quick to blame Bush - NOW YOU HAVE TO BLAME OBAMA.


Be honest


If you DO NOT BLAME OBAMA NOW, YOU ARE NOT BEING HONEST.


This oil spill disaster is much much worse because of OBAMA

Obama just came out in favor of more drilling offshore - HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PREPARED THAT DAY.


It is Obama's fault.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

You really hate the logic that the State and local authorities were PRIMARILY responsible for Katrina - they had been warned that it would come someday.


So the DEMOCRATS HAD YEARS TO PREPARE.


But Bush was expected to come in on 24 hours notice - and clean up the entire mess the DEMOCRATS CREATED - right ???


Well - where is Obama this time???


Obama has WASTED TWO WEEKS - leaving valuable federal resources IDLE when the weather was good - now the weather is bad.


It is Obama's fault.


All the democrats who were quick to blame Bush - NOW YOU HAVE TO BLAME OBAMA.


Be honest


If you DO NOT BLAME OBAMA NOW, YOU ARE NOT BEING HONEST.


This oil spill disaster is much much worse because of OBAMA

Obama just came out in favor of more drilling offshore - HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PREPARED THAT DAY.


It is Obama's fault.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 7:07 PM | Report abuse

Drivl is now desperately searching for a response on any leftist blog. Otherwise crickets. There is simply no capability for independent or original thought.

==

this from the cretin who scours the hate sites every morning for pithy screeds to paste without attribution.

Why don't you just dry up and blow away, you miserable failure. Your posts are just blog clog, you are incapable of making any point other than how much you hate everyone, and nobody cares. Consider yourself spat upon, loser.

Posted by: Noacoler | May 2, 2010 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Costly intervention means incompetent government officials bugging you about
things like whether your product works.

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Well, I guess this company didn't do it.
See look here,

"Cameron represents a breakthrough solution to the risks of subsea production, and addresses the challenges that can result in downtime, costly intervention, deferred production and lost revenue for offshore operators."

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Cameron

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 6:34 PM | Report abuse

BP has officially spoken!

"...a “failed piece of equipment” was to blame for the spill..." NYT now

Well, now I feel a lot better.

I thought they were going to go with
An Act of God.

We still have to hear from the experts on God's Will. One or more may determine their God made the equipment piece fail. Gods works in strange ways, of that we can be sure.

Anyway, if some God did this, that would be worse than if some company called Cameroon*, that is already out of business whether they know it or not, did this terrible thing.

* www.c-a-m.com

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 6:32 PM | Report abuse

mark_in_austin is right - the annexation document.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Barry reassures Piyush...with an index finger in the air.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/us/03spill.html?src=un&feedurl=http://json8.nytimes.com/pages/national/index.jsonp

Wanna run for office?

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 6:12 PM | Report abuse

12BB, I know you were amused by your baiting of conservatives about taking federal aid on the oil spill. I assume you were not serious, just trying to pull someone's chain. But in case anyone took you seriously I want to point out that both coastal lands and inland waterways are a federal responsibility under the Constitution. That is why the primary screw-up in Katrina was the years of neglect of the levees by the Corps. Blame any Admin you desire, the Corps is still screwing up. The Coast Guard was out in force on this gusher immediately because it is their job to protect the coast.

Only Texas has somewhat different maritime laws than the Constitution envisions - this is because Texas retained control of some of its waterways and coast in the Annexation document.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | May 2, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

The ENTIRE COUNTRY knows that Obama wasted valuable time over the past few weeks - when federal resources - which were SITTING IDLE - could have been mobilized.


This is another parking lot full of Nagain's school buses.

The democrats are quick to point the finger - but to get them to admit something is OBAMA'S FAULT - is virtually impossible.


THAT IS WHY THE DEMOCRATS HATE THE TRUTH.


Obama's OIL SPILL IS MUCH WORSE THAN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IF OBAMA HAD ACTED QUICKLY.


Clearly, Obama and the White House were more concerned with pushing a FALSE NARRATIVE ON THE WALL STREET BILL.


Obama wanted to hold PARTISAN VOTES ALL WEEK - AIMED AT TRYING TO MAKE THE OTHER SIDE LOOK BAD.

How about doing your job Obama - instead of doing the EXACT OPPOSITE from what you were elected to do - PARTISAN BICKERING.


Obama got his hand caught in the cookie jar - and the only honorable thing to do would be to resign - BUT DON'T EXPECT OBAMA TO DO ANYTHING HONORABLE.

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Drivl is now desperately searching for a response on any leftist blog. Otherwise crickets. There is simply no capability for independent or original thought.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 6:06 PM | Report abuse

We need more offshore drilling - and more drilling in Alaska.


If this accident was in Alaska, there wouldn't be such a problem.


If the spill were on land, it would be easier to plug the leak - instead the environmentalists have DRIVEN ALL THE DRILLING OFFSHORE - AND THIS IS THE RESULT.

The environmentalists have done A GREAT DEAL OF HARM TO THIS COUNTRY - THEY NEVER TALK ABOUT THE RISKS - OR WHEN THEIR SOLUTIONS ARE MISGUIDED.

MISGUIDED ENVIRONMENTALISTS.

This is Obama's oil spill - he was more concerned with partisan attacks this week then the oil spill.


Obama should resign - if the fishermen lose their jobs, Obama should lose his.

Clear.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

"You wanted these rigs in your waters, now suck up the inevitable price!"

Have they sucked up all the tax money generated by oil revenues?

Posted by: Brigade "


You mean the ones they don't pay to the US, because they have offshore tax shelters?

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues wrote,
"I can't think of anything that seems less worthwhile than debating the relative merits of R's and D's when they behave the same way. They both rely on big government when the chips are down, they both want the military to defend them when they are threatened, they both want Wall Street regulated, and now, they both want offshore drilling to be slowed down.

Why would I spend brain cells comparing and contrasting? Why would I jack up my blood pressure calling one side names.

Pot. Kettle. Black."

We don't have much to argue about because I agree with your statement. That's why I remain unaffiliated. I take shots at Democrats here because it gives balance to the discussions, not because I always agree with Republicans.

Now, since it appears the others have all high-tailed it, I think I'll watch a flick. I'm more of a movie nut than a political junkie; home theater and nearing 5000 movies on DVD and blu-ray. But this political blog is more fun than any I've found on movies.

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 5:59 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


You really hate the logic that the State and local authorities were PRIMARILY responsible for Katrina - they had been warned that it would come someday.

So the DEMOCRATS HAD YEARS TO PREPARE.

But Bush was expected to come in on 24 hours notice - and clean up the entire mess the DEMOCRATS CREATED - right ???

Well - where is Obama this time???

Obama has WASTED TWO WEEKS - leaving valuable federal resources IDLE when the weather was good - now the weather is bad.


It is Obama's fault.

All the democrats who were quick to blame Bush - NOW YOU HAVE TO BLAME OBAMA.

Be honest

If you DO NOT BLAME OBAMA NOW, YOU ARE NOT BEING HONEST.

This oil spill disaster is much much worse because of OBAMA

Obama just came out in favor of more drilling offshore - HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PREPARED THAT DAY.

It is Obama's fault.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

@brigade,

I can't think of anything that seems less worthwhile than debating the relative merits of R's and D's when they behave the same way. They both rely on big government when the chips are down, they both want the military to defend them when they are threatened, they both want Wall Street regulated, and now, they both want offshore drilling to be slowed down.

Why would I spend brain cells comparing and contrasting? Why would I jack up my blood pressure calling one side names.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues wrote,
"What a defense, Brigade. In a nutshell: you say that Democrats are sleazy. Republicans are sleazy too, but they know better."

No, I really didn't say that at all. But it's so much easier to refute statements you make up yourself. They're often called 'straw men.'

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

One other example, 12BarBlues:

The lady who is running against Chuck Grassley for the U.S. Senate this year was once a candidate for governor of the same state.

She was doing quite well in the polls, ranting and raving about all these rich folks who weren't paying their fair share of taxes. Imagine how embarrased she must have been when it was revealed that neither she nor her husband, both successful attorneys, had paid any taxes for a few years. Pesky deductions.

She dropped in the polls and lost the election to a Republican named Brandstadt---I think he's up again this year.

I think the voters got your memo about setting examples; but obviously the candidate didn't. That idiot Brandstadt still thinks tax cuts can spur the economy.

I think ole Roxanne (the candidate) was also against drunk driving and public intoxication---like Ted Kennedy---but I seem to remember something about an arrest some years back. Hypocrisy?

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 5:42 PM | Report abuse

What a defense, Brigade. In a nutshell: you say that Democrats are sleazy. Republicans are sleazy too, but they know better.

Wow, I'm impressed.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

"drindl, drindl, we just don't understand. See Brigade's explanation. If you were against it before you are for it, then it's ok. Otherwise, it's not ok."

Exactly, Drindl. You may be against increased spending for the military, but you'll still want the military there when you need it. John Kerry and Barack Obama were against the Bush tax cuts, but what are the chances they sent their own share of the spoils back to the treasury?
Rotten hypocrites!

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

No question. But who's trying to set an example?

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 5:20 PM | Report abuse

"You wanted these rigs in your waters, now suck up the inevitable price!"

Have they sucked up all the tax money generated by oil revenues?

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

drindl wrote: Funny how the red state politicians all WHINE about 'big government' boo-hoo-hoo, and 'taxes' --more boo-hoo... then a disaster happens and they are the first in line to BEG for a federal gov bailout.
-------------------------
drindl, drindl, we just don't understand. See Brigade's explanation. If you were against it before you are for it, then it's ok. Otherwise, it's not ok.

Don't you see?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

"So what makes you guys any different from liberals?"

Whether or not you supported the program in the first place.
----------------------------------
I see. Kind of makes it hard to set an example, don't you think?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

"...good case of tossing all conservatives in a mental institution..."
Most of us know how to escape.
Posted by: 37thand0street "


well, practice makes perfect.

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 5:14 PM | Report abuse

"Just as you say, shrink, Gov. Jindal is meeting up with reality in a BIG way.

"Governor Jindal Meets with Federal Officials, Stresses Need for Requested Federal Support in Oil Response Efforts

...“I do have concerns that BP’s current resources are not adequate to meet the three challenges we face and I have urged them to seek more help....

Specifically, Governor Jindal outlined the specific federal support the state has formally requested from its federal partners...


------------------------------------
Forget all that, Governor. Didn't you know that the government can't do anything right.

Instead, call BP. "

Funny how the red state politicians all WHINE about 'big government' boo-hoo-hoo, and 'taxes' --more boo-hoo... then a disaster happens and they are the first in line to BEG for a federal gov bailout.

Hey Bobby Jindal! CALL BRITISH PETROLEUM, your buddies in the *free market oil business*, rmember? Why should US taxpayers bail you out?

You wanted these rigs in your waters, now suck up the inevitable price!

.

private industry created this catastrophe -- now let it PAY for it.

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

"So what makes you guys any different from liberals?"

Whether or not you supported the program in the first place. As Phil Gramm used to say, once the money has been appropriated, everyone's going to fight their state's piece of the pie.

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse


April 30, 2010

Alabama's appliance rebates are nearly gone

Alabama residents hoping to get one of the state's appliance rebates are running out of time.

The Alabama Department of Economic and Community Affairs says Alabamians have reserved 87 percent of the $4.2 million that the state was allocated through the federal stimulus program.

Nearly 32,600 rebates have been reserved for buying new appliances with the Energy Star label. ADECA officials say there is about $540,000 left and it may be used up this weekend.

The most popular rebate reservations have been for refrigerators, followed by clothes washers and dishwashers.

Alabama residents can reserve an appliance rebate by calling (877) 856-6645 or by using a website (http://www.alrebates.com).
----------------------------------
Is this one of those welfare programs that it's ok to use? Or is it one of those welfare programs that is NOT ok to use?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

shrink2 wrote,
"People on the World Wide Web tubes are constantly diagnosing each other, but I am sure you know, as for The Fix, there is only one crazy person here and he is neither conservative nor liberal, whatever he once was."

Hey! I resent that remark.

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Moonbat wrote,
"Once a federal welfare program kicks in, it is proper to use it."
-------------------------------
Oh, excuse me, I thought this was a matter of principle. I guess it's just expediency. So what makes you guys any different from liberals?

Just curious.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 5:06 PM | Report abuse


"...good case of tossing all conservatives in a mental institution..."


Most of us know how to escape.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Moonbat wrote,
"Once a federal welfare program kicks in, it is proper to use it."

Are you implying that one is not really a hypocrit for trying to get back some of the money the government has confiscated?

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

"...good case of tossing all conservatives in a mental institution..."

a couple notes on mental illness

Dawd, it happens today I am working on institutional admissions for the coming weeks. These are risk management decisions in part and clinical in the sense that some people who act crazy are not, nor are they treatable, no matter how great the hospital care, nor how brilliant the psychiatrist.

Others, well they should have been out of the jail, or out from under the bridge, or out of their mom's basement months or even years ago, a few weeks in hospital and they are good as new, not really, but we try.

We got a young woman a couple years ago who was living in her mom's basement, covered with lice, toenails curled more than an inch past the flesh of the toe, one cutting was about 5cm if it were straightened out. She was 22yo. No one wanted to take her since she won't take Rx and so, she went back to mom's house. Well over $100,000 in hospital cost...just this time...your tax dollars at work.

Mental illnesses are tragedy, they are dreadful (the escaped mental patient! is an idiom), except for the hebephrenic type*,
they are crushed souls.

People on the World Wide Web tubes are constantly diagnosing each other, but I am sure you know, as for The Fix, there is only one crazy person here and he is neither conservative nor liberal, whatever he once was.


*We have a young woman who endlessly repeats variations on this theme,
in Valley Girl cadence and inflection (prosody)

"Who is the pretty girl?
*pause*
You are!
I am?
*pause*
You are!
So, I am the pretty one?!"
*pause*
But, I don't even have a cell phone!
*pause*
I do?
Great!"

and so, on and on, as she paces the grounds. She is not manic. She seems to me a good candidate for the world's happiest person.

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse


DDAWD wrote,
"If it's ok to harass brown people because a disproportionate number of them are supposedly terrorists, I think we have a good case of tossing all conservatives in a mental institution, no?"

Not as long as more people identify as conservative than liberal.

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

So when the Pathfinder Bomber turns out to be just another l
Limbaugh-listening teabagger nutjob, are the "conservatives" going to call him a patriotic hero and blast Obama for suppressing his FREEDOM OF SPEECH by disarming his bomb?

Yeah America really is getting that nutty.

Posted by: Noacoler | May 2, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Just admit that Obama should not have been engaging in the PARTISAN SMEAR CAMPAIGN over the past two weeks - and Obama should have been working on the oil spill


Stop being a joker.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Come on - Obama was more concerned with PARTISAN POLITICS over the past two weeks - rather than concentrating on the Oil Spill.

Case closed.

Obama HAS BEEN EXPOSED.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Obama just changes "ush" to "P"

This is the same story from Obama.

Obama - Blame Bush - Blame BP


This is a joke.

OBAMA ENDORSED A MASSIVE EXPANSION OF OFFSHORE DRILLING JUST WEEKS AGO.

Obama SHOULD have been READY for this.


Obama wasted valuable time - WITH FEDERAL RESOURCES SITTING IDLE.

Let me be clear - THIS IS OBAMA'S OIL SPILL.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Anyone read "A Scanner Darkly" by Philip K. Dick? About a bunch if addicts to Substance D, a brain-destroying narcotic, and one of whom is a narc assigned to spy on himself.

37th reminds me of the character who believes he's being eaten alive by aphids. TOTAL burnout, entirely incapable of reason, still dropping tab after tab of D. Wonder what he gets out if posting here, it's unintelligible and nobody reads it.

Hey instead of the booby hatch can we weigh down conservatives with cinder blocks and use them to plug the oil leak? At least then they could be of SOME use.

Posted by: Noacoler | May 2, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Once a federal welfare program kicks in, it is proper to use it.

Why don't all you bonehead liberals continue paying the pre bush tax rates?

This silly argument was laughed off the set when retching madcow tried to make it on meet the press. She was not invited back.

I guess we can concede that liberals and government are effective at handing out other peoples money and enslaving victims on government largess, creating more liberal victims and the need for more liberal caretakers.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

BTW, 3 consecutive quarters of growth means we are NOT in a recession anymore.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Every conservative on this blog should be writing and calling the Republican governors of the Gulf States to rescind their appeal for federal help.

It shows their hypocrisy.

It shows they are against their own party principles.

It shows how weak willed they are.

It shows that government is NOT the problem.

It shows that BP is NOT the answer.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

We have had SEVERAL TERRORIST INCIDENTS since Obama took office.


IN EACH CASE, OBAMA HAS TRIED TO DOWNPLAY EACH INCIDENT.

OBAMA IS NOT PROTECTING THE COUNTRY PROPERLY - OBAMA IS SOFT ON TERRORISM.


The War on Terror does not fit into Obama's leftist agenda -


Obama's position is an IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE.


Fort Hood - Obama's people KNEW the shooter had contact with al queda.

The limo-al queda Colorado arrest -

The Detroit Bomber on the Plane - Obama downplayed it - calling him a "lone extremist"

We have had several other terrorist-related incidents in the past year

OBAMA'S RESPONSE HAS BEEN DISGRACEFUL -

Obama has NOT been protecting the country PROPERLY - BECAUSE OF SOME POLITICAL AGENDA THAT MOST AMERICANS HAVE NOT EVEN HEARD ABOUT.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

LOOK We have Obama and a government which is WAY OFF BASE in terms of what its focus is - and what it is concerned about.

The last two weeks are a microcosm.

The country does not have to have a fight about race and racism in the middle of a recession - but here we are with FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM.

The country does NOT need to address health care in the middle of a recession.

The country does NOT need to hear about "potential" terrorist attacks when there is an unexploded bomb in Times Sq (you can't make that one up - it is so pathetic)


AND WE DONT NEED PARTISAN VOTES IN THE SENATE - A SMEAR CAMPAIGN - WHEN BIPARTISAN TALKS ARE GOING ON.

Obama is a NATIONAL DISGRACE


When will the democrats finally ADMIT that Obama is CLUELESS - obsessed with his own ego - completely lacking in any skills or management ability.

AND the government is NOW filled with cabinet officials who have NO IDEA what they are doing - besides PUSHING AN OUT-OF-TOUCH POLITICAL AGENDA.


Obama is a NATIONAL DISGRACE.

WE CAN START BY STATING CLEARLY THAT LAST NIGHT THERE WAS A TERRORIST INCIDENT IN TIMES SQUARE -


AND OUR NATION IS UNDER ATTACK... AGAIN.

The country NEEDS A COMMANDER IN CHIEF WHO WANTS TO RISE TO THE OCCASSION -

NOT ISSUE PRESS RELEASES DOWNPLAYING THE INCIDENTS.


HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF SUCH A THING IN YOUR LIFE?? Fort Hood is still classified as what?


AND THE OBAMA PEOPLE KNEW ALL ALONG THAT THE FORT HOOD SHOOTER HAD BEEN IN TOUCH WITH AL QUEDA.


Case Closed.

Obama is AGAIN VERGING ON AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE - FAILURE TO PROPERLY DEFEND THE COUNTRY.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

What's up with these stoooooooooooopid Republican governors asking for federal help? Aren't they in the Just-Say-No Party? Aren't they in the Government-Is-the-Problem Party? Aren't they in the Let's-Deregulate-Everything-We-Can Party.

Can't they just man up, and handle this thing by themselves? It would be a great opportunity to show just how local resources can handle anything. Who needs the feds anyway?

Or, they could just call BP for help.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Obama is SOFT ON TERRORISM.


Obama fails to respond to Oil Spill - while federal resources sit IDLE.

What has Obama done? Partisan votes in the Senate - trying to SMEAR the Republicans while the Republicans are trying to negotiate a bipartisan deal.

Obama is a hypocrite.

What has Obama done??? Engineered FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM AGAINST THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT.


That is a CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATION - TRYING TO DISCOURAGE US CITIZENS FROM EXERCISING THEIR FREEDOM OF SPEECH


Getting Obama TO ACTUALLY DO HIS JOB is getting to be difficult.


Obama is a COMPLETE FAILURE.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Obama and his cabinet CONTINUE TO DOWNPLAY EVERY TERRORIST INCIDENT - all for political purposes.

Apparently, Obama thinks that if he ignores the terrorist attacks, then the war will end.

OBAMA IS NOT PROTECTING THE COUNTRY PROPERLY. Clear and Simple.


This is the SAME ATTITUDE THAT CLINTON HAD -

Ignore all the terrorist attacks - or do the bare minimum - and hopefully the terrorists will go away HOW MANY TERRORIST ATTACKS DID WE HAVE IN THE 1990S ???

Bill Clinton did virtually NOTHING.


That attitude did nothing but EMBOLDEN THE TERRORISTS - AND LED TO 9/11.


OBAMA IS NOT DOING THE SAME THING.

Isn't everyone sick of Obama?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Another stooooooooooooopid Republican, Gov. Riley of Alabama:

In his state of emergency declaration, Governor Riley directs state agencies to assist communities affected by the oil leak. He also directs ADEM and the Alabama Emergency Management Agency “to make the appropriate assessments of damages and seek the necessary state, private and federal assistance for the affected areas.”

Governor Riley’s emergency declaration comes after days of briefings with officials from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the U.S. Coast Guard, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association (NOAA), the Alabama Department of Environmental Management (ADEM) and other state agencies. The Governor this week has taken two aerial tours over the gulf to survey the oil leak and observe the magnitude of the hazard approaching Alabama’s coastline.
------------------------------------
Doesn't he know that government is totally screwed up and doesn't work?

Instead, call BP.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

jesus. If it's ok to harass brown people because a disproportionate number of them are supposedly terrorists, I think we have a good case of tossing all conservatives in a mental institution, no?

Posted by: DDAWD | May 2, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse


ANOTHER CLUELESS STATEMENT BY AN OBAMA APPOINTEE

"We're treating it as if it could be a potential terrorist attack."


OK AN UNEXPLODED CAR BOMB IN TIMES SQUARE IN NEW YORK

Potential ???

This is the kind of administration we have - complete idiots who HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

But they are always PUSHING SOME POLITICAL AGENDA - that perhaps whatever they are trying to say.


THERE WAS AN UNEXPLODED BOMB IN TIMES SQUARE.

Obama is a complete idiot.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Clearly you have made several SARCASTIC statements about "government"

Government has its PROPER PLACE in society-

Meaning SMALL GOVERNMENT WITH LOW TAXES.

Just because the government built a highway in the 1950s- it does NOT mean the government should take over all the doctors' offices in the country now.

The logic is completely lacking.

Small government, low taxes - that is the way to go.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Is this how you are defending Obama? Obama wasted valuable time last week when federal resources were sitting IDLE.

Remember Obama has announced that he is in favor of EXPANDED OFFSHORE DRILLING - so he should have been ready for something like this oil spill.

Obama was more concerned with partisan attacks - and partisan votes in the Senate - and trying to SMEAR the Republicans - than actually responding to the oil spill.

It is Obama's fault.


It is Obama's disaster.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

more worthless help that Governor Jindal wants:

“We have also asked the U.S. Small Business Administration to activate all appropriate federal disaster declaration clauses that would enable the SBA to assist the small businesses in the state that will be impacted by the oil spill....

The Governor also spoke about air quality monitoring efforts the Department of Environmental Quality and the Department of Health and Hospitals are conducting with the support of the federal Environmental Protection Agency.

----------------------------
Instead, call BP.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Just as you say, shrink, Gov. Jindal is meeting up with reality in a BIG way.

"Governor Jindal Meets with Federal Officials, Stresses Need for Requested Federal Support in Oil Response Efforts

...“I do have concerns that BP’s current resources are not adequate to meet the three challenges we face and I have urged them to seek more help....

Specifically, Governor Jindal outlined the specific federal support the state has formally requested from its federal partners...

(more to follow)
------------------------------------
Forget all that, Governor. Didn't you know that the government can't do anything right.

Instead, call BP.

BP is now accepting claims for the Gulf Coast oil spill. Please call BP’s helpline at 1-800-440-0858.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

"...restricting fishing for a minimum of ten days..."

10 days. Hope springs eternal, but this is ridiculous. If by some miracle, the flow stopped right now, is the idea the oil already out there goes away by 5/11?

I guess they can't break the bad news all at once. Of course, Prince William Sound is not the same biome, but 10 days? 10 days?

Is there still some reason to pretend this just isn't that big-a-deal?

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Piyush Jindal...speaking of big political gaffes, I'll bet "Bobby" wants that stilted critique of government doing some scientific work on volcano eruptions back...it pretty much ended his career in national politics.

Now he'll be begging big government for all kinds of tax payer funded services, in ways and through means he didn't even know existed, before hubris became nemesis.

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

GOVERNOR BARBOUR ANNOUNCES MISSISSIPPI COUNTIES RECEIVE
FEDERAL DISASTER DECLARATION

Governor Haley Barbour today announced residents and business owners can access federal emergency assistance programs after President Obama issued a federal disaster declaration for five Mississippi counties.

“I appreciate the decision by President Obama to declare these counties that suffered tremendous damage as federal disaster areas,” Governor Barbour said. “Recovering and rebuilding has already begun. This disaster assistance will go a long way to helping our residents rebuild. Mississippians are resilient. We’ve proven that before, and we will do it again.”
--------------------------------
Another stoooooooooopid Republican who didn't get the message that government can't do anything right.

Instead, call BP.

BP is now accepting claims for the Gulf Coast oil spill. Please call BP’s helpline at 1-800-440-0858.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

May 01, 2010
Governor Jindal Requests Employment Benefit Services from the U.S. Dept. of Labor

BATON ROUGE – Today, Governor Bobby Jindal sent a letter to Secretary of Labor Hilda L. Solis of the U.S. Department of Labor requesting through the Oil Pollution Act (OPA) of 1990 for disaster related workforce training and job placement services and unemployment benefit services for workers displaced as a result of the oil spill.
-------------------------------------
Whoops! Doesn't he know that government can't do anything right.

Instead, call BP.

BP is now accepting claims for the Gulf Coast oil spill. Please call BP’s helpline at 1-800-440-0858.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Now that the federal government has restricted fishing in federal waters affected by the Gulf oil disaster, shall we now see the state governments restrict fishing in their jurisdictions? Will the governors ask for federal disaster relief?

Guess they didn't get the memo that government can't do anything right, so they should S'TFU too.

Instead, call BP:

BP is now accepting claims for the Gulf Coast oil spill. Please call BP’s helpline at 1-800-440-0858.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

"...liberal groups all across the land will no doubt call for boycotts..."

Actually, it did turn into a bit of a hoo-ha...people argued she was a really good person and so on (she was pretty too, saving a (blond) damsel in distress seems to come naturally). If it weren't for the pot bust, she might still be in country.

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues

Not sure who the Secretary of Commerce is


anyway.


Not sure what your comment at the end of your 2:23 posting means.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Alternative method. Called the Conservative Method of keeping government out of disasters.

1. Keep fishing. Sell fish to canneries. How do we really know that a little oil is bad for the food supply, anyway?

2. Call BP. "BP is now accepting claims for the Gulf Coast oil spill. Please call BP’s helpline at 1-800-440-0858."

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I don't want to point fingers at any one individual - however it IS BECOMING INCREASINGLY CLEAR THAT WE HAVE AN ADMINISTRATION FULL OF "AFFIRMATIVE ACTION" PICKS WHO HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

The cabinet officials who are responding to the oil spill appear like they are "deer in headlights" - they have no idea what they are doing, or saying - and they are relying on other people.

We have a cabinet that needs advice - to give advice to Obama- this is really a case of the blind leading the blind.


When will the democrats start to admit that this administration is a FAILURE - IT HAS DONE NOTHING.


The only thing is has done HAS TO BE UNDONE - AND THE TAXES ARE GOING TO DAMAGE THE ECONOMY.


We have an administration completely out of touch with the country.

Obama's people can not do anything - their first policy on the oil spill was "Blame BP"

That isn't a policy - it is poor attempt at CYA.


The sooner Obama is out of office, the better for the country.

Biden would make a better President, no matter how many gaffes he makes.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

NOAA is restricting fishing for a minimum of ten days in federal waters most affected by the BP oil spill.

NOAA is working with the state governors to evaluate the need to declare a fisheries disaster in order to facilitate federal aid to fishermen in these areas. NOAA fisheries representatives in the region will be meeting with fishermen this week to assist them. The states of Louisiana and Mississippi have requested NOAA to declare a federal fisheries disaster. BP will be hiring fishermen to help clean up from the spill and deploy boom in the Gulf of Mexico. Interested fishermen should call (425) 745-8017.

NOAA is a bureau of the U.S. Department of Commerce.

I suppose NOAA should S'TFU, because they can't do anything right.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Blade


The lack of evacuation of New Orleans was the FAULT of the state and local authorities - who were all DEMOCRATS.


Instead of doing their jobs, all they did was blame Bush.


It is pretty simple - Nagin had a fleet of school buses which he did not use.

Even a little kid could see it - he stole a school bus and drove a whole bunch of people to Houston.

That is who stupid the democrats are.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

And your little zouk too.

What a world, what a world. Where liberal ignorance is no longer swallowed whole.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Katrina wasn't a man made disaster. The flooding of New Orleans, however, was. Katrina was down to a Category 2 by the time it hit the city. The levees failed--I think it was a combination of design and construction.

It's amazing how much interesting commentary you can read here, providing you keep a finger on page up/down.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | May 2, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Don't you mean toodle-loo?


More like
"I'll get you my pretty"

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

shrink2 wrote,
"A Norwegian (or Swede, I forgot) living in Oregon, in the country illegally was deported, subsequent to her pot bust.
She was very blonde, I remember that."

I'll bet the A.C.L.U. was really fired up about that. Better keep it under your hat or liberal groups all across the land will no doubt call for boycotts of any and all Oregon products.

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Drindl wrote,
"..and brigade is the same guy, on here all day, talking to himself with different names."

Is it working? Have I fooled you yet? Don't let us get in your head, even though there's obviously plenty of empty space available.

"ta-ta".

Don't you mean toodle-loo?

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I am listening to a talk radio program. This is hilarious. Callers are complaining about teachers with accents who make it hard for students to understand. Almost all the callers have accents themselves. The last one is clearly from Chinatown. The one before that had a Southern accent.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

What sourcing are you looking for?

Obama's comments on the country of his birth were at the dinner last night which was televised.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

"Even though there are no blond or red-headed illegal immigrants in Arizona,"

Maybe, but there are some in other places.
A Norwegian (or Swede, I forgot) living in Oregon, in the country illegally was deported, subsequent to her pot bust.
She was very blonde, I remember that.

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

another bomb was found next to a Marathon course while runners were running in Pittsburg.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Moonbat wrote,
"Not all muslims are terrorists but for the most part all terrorists are Muslim. Not all Latinos are illegal but most illegals are Latinos. To ignore these facts is a waste of resources."

No! No! No! If three extremely dangerous black prisoners escape from Pelican Bay, protocol demands that an equal amount of time be spent searching for three white men.

Even though there are no blond or red-headed illegal immigrants in Arizona, Noacoler has demanded that resources be expended searching for them anyway.

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

touche Moonbat.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

@moonbat,

I always know when someone doesn't want to answer a "yes or no" question, but uses with a lot of qualifiers, that they don't want to say, simply, "yes" or "no". BTW, isn't the military part of the government?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


I support throwing kerosene on top of the oil spill - and setting fire to it.


Pretty simple.

The kero is needed because it is difficult to ignite the crude oil.

Go for it.

This MUST be done immediately in order to minimize the damage to the Gulf Coast - and the fisheries. I feel horrible for those parishes south of New Orleans - they were devastated 5 years ago, now this. It is really horrible.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

women being raped should just lay back and enjoy it"

isn't this basically obama's attitude toward the country on health care legislation and out of control spending?

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Drindl wrote,
"Now, where will that money come from -- are people willing to pay a border security tax? Watch their enthusiasm shrivel."

They were sort of hoping you'd get out your checkbook and take care of it.

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

..and brigade is the same guy, on here all day, talking to himself with different names.

ta-ta.

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

I suppose experts in drilling would know more about this than I.

Why do liberals think they know everything better than anyone, after reading a single editorial in the nytimes. This arrogance extends to government.

The simple answer us that BP was down there with ROVs on day one. Obimbo still has practically no asserts on site and never will. Only the military ( which liberals would like to gut) has any capabilities to help. Of course the private sector innovation is the only hope.

Obimbo fans should start chanting. " no we can't". Waiting over a week was certainly negligent in the extreme if you actually believe that government has the answer.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

leichtman1 wrote,
"...he was caught telling this vile joke at a campfire about how women being raped should just lay back and enjoy it"

Didn't Bobby Knight get in trouble for that one, too?

Posted by: Brigade | May 2, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

zouk and 37 are both idiots, 12Bar -- why waste your time?

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Another fine example of what no government can do for a country.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8657060.stm

I like the part about hundreds of pirates leaving town in luxury cars. I'll bet these headhunters (and hands too) think being a pirate is easy. But bobbing around in blue water (far, far from shore) in tiny boats is only for people who grew up doing it, like the people they just ran off, the town's former fisher folk.

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

@moonbat,

That's your answer? Do nothing, just let it play out. Keep government out of it. Tell Jindal and the other governors, forget it, the feds are not going to do anything, because conservatives KNOW that government screws everything up. Just wait to BP to get around to capping the well and when they get around to cleaning up the Gulf.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Nice talking to you, 12Bar and shrink. Time to leave the blog to the no-lifes who will clutter it all day.

Lovely weather here!

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

12Barblues


Someone was talking about constructing a massive concrete dome (like an upside-down ice cream cone) which they would place above the oil well.


The problems with that - how would they anchor the dome on the floor, so that the oil doesnt leak out the side.

The second problem is the PRESSURE - if the pressure is high enough, the oil will find another way through the sea bottom and come out to the side of the dome.

We do not know the condition of the equipment down there - the equipment must be BENT in such way that the shut-off equipment does not work -


However, there must still be piping coming out of the well - and extending high up through the water - this piping has to be CUT while the oil is still pressuring out - so the dome can be placed on top.

I don't know - If I did know, BP would paying me a fortune to cap the well.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Extracting, converting, transporting and utilizing energy is an inherently dangerous and dirty endevour. Whether simply burning wood or coal, with the threat of fire, natural gas, which is explosive, nukes which can leak rads or oil which is polluting and flammable. There is simply no clean easy and effective method. Large environmental disasters happen every decade. Big dumb government and webs if regulation can't stop it.

But the disaster does speed up mitigation efforts. Like warfare, necessity spurs innovation.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I nominate 37th to dive down to the wellhead with his camera. Put a baggie around the camera. Remember to hold your breath. Let us know what you find.

Bwahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Even if Obama had responded in a decisive and timely fashion, which has never happened, what would he have done. The government can't manage it's way out of a wet paper sack.

Liberals first responders are lawyers.

Berry will take a photo op tour. He will give a few sharply worded speeches from his trusty prompter, he will assemble a panel or summit. He will do nothing. Same as with Iran. Same as cap and tax. Same as everything.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

" Washington Times executives are negotiating to sell the newspaper, after the Rev. Sun Myung Moon’s family cut off most of the annual subsidy of about $35 million that has kept the Unification Church-backed paper afloat, company officials said.

It’s strange, isn't it, that for the last 20 years, a Korean cult leader was one of the most important figures in American media?

A loony guy who 'married' hundred of strangers at a time, and instructed them to have s*x under his picture... this was the guy behind the nation's leading 'conservative' newspaper.

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

ok, moonbat, what would you suggest to cap the Gulf oil gusher? Other than government, of course, since we know already that you think they are ineffective.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Was there an earthquake or any seismic activity which would cause the pressure in the well to increase ?

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

The oil leak is a mile down in the water - plus the oil is coming out - so one has to go underwater and basically have to dive into the oil.


Also, with the currents, it is dangerous to go into a debris field.


The oil platform is submerged.

To get a camera in there, the oil would be blocking the lens.


Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 12:26 PM | Report abuse

I don’t see any way around the political reality that this will set back the cause of offshore drilling in the United States.
-------------------------------------------
Duh. This surely isn't a recommendation of offshore drilling. We're all environmentalists now.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Obama or bush, it makes no difference. Big government aid is never effective and it matters not who is in charge. At least repubs are not fanciful enough to believe that this is the answer. When government fails, which it inevitably does, liberals surely advocate more, bigger government.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

'Conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh said on his program that the oil slick disaster is "Obama's Katrina."

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 12:13 PM
-----------------------------------
Limbaugh's comeback is tacit acknowledgment of the damage done to Bush's reputation from the federal response to Katrina.

Rush is so busy flapping his mouth, he doesn't realize he just confirms what he's trying to deny. What a peabrain.

That's not to say that Obama can't screw up the federal response to the BP oil catastrophe, but it hasn't happened yet.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Interesting -- even on FOX:

" Even conservative darling and drilling proponent Marco Rubio said that the spill should make us “rethink” our drilling technologies.

Today, on Fox News Sunday, Fox’s Brit Hume said that the spill validates the concern of environmentalists who warned that such a disaster was inevitable:

Think about what the environmentalists have always said about this. Is it’s not a matter of if there’ll be a disaster of this kind resulting in this kind of offshore drilling, it’s only a matter of when.

This verifies that argument, and becomes a powerful factor in the debate over what to do next. I don’t see any way around the political reality that this will set back the cause of offshore drilling in the United States. "

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Liberal methodology:

times square bomber is white: evidence of a growing conspiracy of violence aimed at our public institutions conducted by right wing extremists.

Times square bomber is not white: an isolated extremist.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Very easy to see where the parrot gets his material -- oops, sorry, parrots have a brain:

'Conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh said on his program that the oil slick disaster is "Obama's Katrina."

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

What we have here is liberal mindless pc run amok. These people are protesting enforcing the law because the peeps are a certain color.

Shall we let all blacks involved with crack a free pass? Should we permit white bankers to build ponzi schemes. Let mexicans off so we don't offend them. Ignore Muslims boarding planes.

Not all muslims are terrorists but for the most part all terrorists are Muslim. Not all Latinos are illegal but most illegals are Latinos. To ignore these facts is a waste of resources.

Until dc pols get off their butts, the states have to fend for themselves. Criminals and their appeasers should be ashamed to advocate lawlessness. All libs care about is votes and donations.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 2, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

No kidding, 12Bar. May well be the worst disaster we have ever seen here.

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Interesting comment by Rubio -- I have to admit, he knows how to play it. Admits that BP LIED at the beginning of this disaster -- assured everyone they could take care of this themselves, without costing US taxpayers a cent.

Well, as it turns out, it will cost us billions and billions in cleanup costs and lost jobs and revenue. But at least Rubio acknowledges this:

(CNN) – Republican Marco Rubio called the massive oil slick headed toward the Gulf Coast “a crisis” but the Senate hopeful refused to criticize the Obama administration’s response to the oil spill.

“I want to be fair to the administration,” the former Florida House Speaker said in an interview that airs Sunday on CNN’s State of the Union.

Rubio told CNN Chief Political Correspondent Candy Crowley that it appears much of the early information provided to the federal government by BP, the company responsible for the cleanup of the oil, had been “either inaccurate or shortcoming.”

“Since that time, of course, over the last few days, we've seen the administration move aggressively ."

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

@drindl & shrink,

Sounds like there is some risk that the capping ideas have the potential of making the gusher worse. God, what a fiasco.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

What else do you call someone trying to set off a bomb in Times Square BUT a terrorist, you simpering moron?

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Like you, 12Bar, I am afraid that nobody really knows how to deal with this leak, that it is something totally different than has happened before.

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

It is absolutely amazing how crazy the political discourse has become -

The democrats actually want to portray the Times Sq incident as a potential domestic terrorist incident.

Obama and the democrats want to play down the War on Terror - and they want to SMEAR the right wing in this country.


Obviously, the politics in this country have gone way way off the deep end.

This kind of stuff has to STOP.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Interesting piece, shrink -- the crux:

"We need Arizona leadership - as a delegation all working together -sponsoring and spearheading federal legislation to fix immigration.

Reform must secure the border so that the people entering this country are doing so legally and we know who they are. It must eliminate the access to jobs that migrants are willing to risk their lives to reach. It must include an efficient system to verify worker eligibility and tough sanctions for employers who hire the undocumented.

It must provide a path to legalization that has to be earned by the current undocumented population. If they choose not to earn it, they choose not to be citizens and live in this country.

Reform must create a legal pipeline for future workers that is demand-based and temporary. With a legal framework in place, there will be no reason to be in this country without permission. Foreigners who break our laws will be prosecuted, punished and deported."

First, the very same people who are demanding 'border security' are the ones who are also shreiking about taxes and 'small government.' We have thousands of miles of border, through rough terrain, impose to effectively fence off, outrageously expensive to man.

Now, where will that money come from -- are people willing to pay a border security tax? Watch their enthusiasm shrivel.

Posted by: drindl | May 2, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

What is ominous about the oil catastrophe is that the parties trying to cap the well are in a "development mode". They are developing technology, on the fly, to cap a leak at 5000 ft. They have obviously tried all the known techniques/equipment and it didn't work. Now they are designing and fabricating experimental equipment and techniques.

This is not good.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

What sourcing are you looking for?

Obama's comments on the country of his birth were at the dinner last night which was televised.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Hate to be a disaster monger, but oh well. Did you see where they might have to suspend shipping through the area.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

@shrink,

Thanks for the links. I've been looking at both of them. The blog guys do sound like they know a lot about something. It's all very disturbing, isn't it. I get an ominous feeling about the ability to cap this thing off. Hope I'm wrong!

BTW, excellent editorial on AZ undoc law.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

http://www.flickr.com/photos/uscgd8/4551846015/in/photostream/

12B, this is one of the sets of blog comments I referenced yesterday. Some of these people actually seem to know what they are talking about and there are links and references one could Google to learn more.

I'll stop talking about oil disaster engineering.

That full page editorial in the Az Republic sure was interesting...

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/01/20100501arizona-immigration-problem.html

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Lets hope Wild Well Control Inc. is more serious about its work than their name implies. Wild Well, like, oil disasters are funny? Anyway, the are working on the coffer dam, an enormous box they hope to drop over the top of the leaking pipes. So long as they don't do any damage as they position the thing, it should work.

But I can't find out any estimate of when it will be ready, or when all that is necessary for it to be deployed will be ready. The fact that it is the largest ever built and will be used at this depth is...troubling.


Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Six ROVs are down there, some bloggers using technical jargon are saying scary things...
---------------------------
Have any links? I would like to be following the actual event too. Don't have TV, only web.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 8:58 PM


Sorry, I went to bed really early...with the kids' story book on my chest, yeah, they are not as exciting when you are in your mid-fifties...

Anyway, here is the industry's website...

http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/site/2931/

Posted by: shrink2 | May 2, 2010 8:20 AM | Report abuse

Biggest political flub I recall is a story about a cocky Texa oilman named Clayton Williams. He was leading our beloved late great Gov Anne Richards by ten points maybe two weeks before our election for Governor when he was caught telling this vile joke at a campfire about how women being raped should just lay back and enjoy it, Game set match Richards two weeks later easily cruises to victory and is regarded as one of the most beloved Texas Governors of the twentieth century. Curious if others her than mark recall that moment in Texas political history on par with Allen's macaca moment. Thank you Clayton Williams for helping to bring Gov Richards to our state. That was a time I could most honestly brag how proud I was to proclaim that I was a Texan CC.

Posted by: leichtman1 | May 2, 2010 1:44 AM | Report abuse

12BB, he is just like any troll. His goal in life is to disrupt. This is why Chris C's acceptance of him is so incredibly maddening. I don't care all that much about the racism. It's the blog clog

Posted by: DDAWD | May 2, 2010 1:08 AM | Report abuse

I think I have hit on some truth about our 37th.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 12:46 AM | Report abuse

Come on 37th. Is this your practice for a stand-up comedy routine. Did you decide you'd come on some blog, pretend to be the most crazy right wing partisan, and then laugh when the liberals took you seriously. Are you having us on?

I really suspect you have a perverse sense of humor, and get off masquerading as a crazy right winger. Isn't that right?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 12:35 AM | Report abuse

We all know he is making stuff up. Notice how he never has once EVER sourced something he poses as fact?

Posted by: DDAWD | May 2, 2010 12:13 AM
--------------------------------
Oh, for sure, all these "facts" are straight out his imagination.

The question I've been having for weeks is this: does he really mean this stuff or is this some kind of elaborate joke he's playing on all of us. A really passive aggressive ploy to make us think he's sincere in his beliefs. Then, he sits back, laughing at all of us, for believing him.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Obama tonight said his approval ratings were high in his home country

That was meant to be a joke.

However the room of 3000 people fell silent - wondering if Obama had actually admitted he was born outside the US.

The odds are 50-50 that he is still a citizen of Indonesia -

And he is not a citizen of the US.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 12:19 AM | Report abuse

DDAWD


You left your car in Times Square - go back and get it.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 12:15 AM | Report abuse

We all know he is making stuff up. Notice how he never has once EVER sourced something he poses as fact?

Posted by: DDAWD | May 2, 2010 12:13 AM | Report abuse

It is at times like this that I have two totally opposite hunches:

1. 37th is the most partisan person I have ever come across. Now the oil gusher is Obama's fault.

2. 37th is laughing his a** off as he posts these outrageous claims, thinking we are taking him seriously. "Let me see how crazy I can sound before someone figures out I'm totally making this up."

Right now, I'm leaning to option 2.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Where is broadwayjoe???

I think he left his car in Times Square.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 12:07 AM | Report abuse

scrivner likes to portray himself as a loon, but he is quite sharp at times. 37th will have to settle for lower. Like retarded babies or something.

Posted by: DDAWD | May 2, 2010 12:07 AM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


I told Schrivener to point his tin foil hat at the oil spill because the radio towers might then make the oil spill go the other way.

I think he is doing that.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 12:05 AM | Report abuse

leichtman1


Not sure what your point is there - clearly Nagin had no idea what he was doing - and the democratic Governor was more than clueless.

The clear point is the Oil Spill is Obama's fault.

Should we dig up the old news stories about how Obama SUPPORTS OFF SHORE DRILLING ALL THE WAY UP AND DOWN THE EAST COAST????

OBAMA STEPPED IN IT.

The bottom line is Obama just isn't that smart - he really does NOT know what he is doing.

An experience person WOULD BE DOING A MUCH MUCH BETTER JOB.

If Obama was in the private sector, he would be FIRED.

Yet you still support this guy who CLEARLY HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING BESIDES JAMMING A FAR LEFT WING AGENDA DOWN THE THROATS OF AMERICAN.

OBAMA IS UNAMERICAN AND A SOCIALIST.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 2, 2010 12:02 AM | Report abuse

Now you are going to claim it isn't right to blame Obama
-------------------------------------
I'm not claiming anything--you are. You can blame Obama til your throat explodes. The point is--most people do not blame Obama for the BP oil gusher. You are the odd man.

But don't take that as discouragement. Keep blaming, blaming, coming up with reasons. Someday, maybe you'll convince someone. Where's scrivener when you need him?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 2, 2010 12:02 AM | Report abuse

drindl


Yea, how does that differ from anything I said?


Your name-calling is out-of-place and uncalled for.


Would you please curb your nastiness ???

On a daily basis, we are all aware that you have no idea what you are talking about - all you do is cut and paste.

Then you insult people - almost out of the blue.

Give us a break.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 11:57 PM | Report abuse

found this 2005 story about Bush and Katrina backing my claim that he stubbornly refused to
fund rebuilding of the levees(which is an irrelevant side show brgt to you by none other than 37th busy rewriting history tonight):

"Critics Say Bush Undercut New Orleans Flood Control"

By Jim VandeHei and Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, September 2, 2005

"President Bush repeatedly requested less money for programs to guard against catastrophic storms in New Orleans than many federal and state officials requested, decisions that are triggering a partisan debate over administration priorities at a time when the budget is strained by the Iraq war.

Bush's decision to hold down spending on fortifying levees around New Orleans reflected a broader shuffling of resources -- to pay for tax cuts and the Iraq invasion -- that has left the United States more vulnerable"


its truly pathetic that whenever there is a tornado, earthquake, or drilling accident it automatically becomes see how awful Obama is to the Obama haters here. PB was negligent with their construction of the Alaskan pipeline and their Houston plant explosion several years ago that killed 15,so they and Transocean don't have the greatest crdibility when they try their predicable fingerpointing. Apparently it was not enough for Rs to come to the defense of Wallstreet bankers, apparently some now want to rationalize BP's behavior as well. Not the greatest position politically for the GOP.

Tort Reform anyone? Maybe the conservatives would like to next draft legislation to shield these companies from their negligence.

Posted by: leichtman1 | May 1, 2010 11:54 PM | Report abuse

12Bar @ 11:27

Yea, everyone blamed Bush - when it was the State and local authorities - the democrats who were responsible.

Now you are going to claim it isn't right to blame Obama - when Obama had federal resources which could have been deployed last week ?

But Obama was too busy trying to tie the Reps to Wall St ????

Fair Game.

Obama actually deserves it. He really does.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 11:50 PM | Report abuse

37, poor misinformed idiot -- the damage occured one mile under water -- at the ocean floor.

a basin of oil at the seabed has been opened up at an artery -- no one has any idea how to stop it.

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 11:46 PM | Report abuse

37th,

However much you want your version of history to prevail, the only people who hear you are the twenty regulars on this blog. If you haven't convinced us, what does that tell you?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 11:45 PM | Report abuse

drinl


The oil platform burned and fell over into the sea - so the valves and the piping in all probability was bent.


Even if the valve was there, the bent piping is probably preventing it from working.

Also, the casing surrounding the piping wasn't completed.

The equipment was damaged when the platform fell over.

It is hilarious that you REFUSE TO BLAME OBAMA WHO SAT IDLE - WITH FEDERAL RESOURCES READY TO GO -

Yet you are fishing to blame Cheney and Bush.

Im sure you would blame Reagan too, if you could think of ANY reason to do so.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 11:39 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Exactly - however my response was at 11:21


The local and state authorities were responsible for the evacuation -

NOT the federal government.

The DEMOCRATS are the ones whose fault it was.

Pure and simple

You are agreeing with me.

Almost.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 11:35 PM | Report abuse

"This catastrophe is not considered an act of God, is it? "

We may well discover that is an act of negligence by man, 'man' being nowadays, a corporation.

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 11:33 PM | Report abuse

"The existing pumping stations remain safe because of their valving, I am sure."

But Mark, what makes you sure? How would we know this? How do we know that any of their valving was different in any way from BP/Halliburton? After all, because of deregulation, no remote control switching was mandated.

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

37th,

Are you asking whether most of the world think it is Bush's fault that New Orleans was abandoned? If that's the question, yes, that is what most people think. Now, you might not agree, but you are only one guy.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 11:27 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


New Orleans - they knew for YEARS the levees were in the condition they were - the newspapers ran articles for years on that subject.


The Primary RESPONSIBILITY for evacuation was with the local and State authorities - THE DEMOCRATS.

The Federal government is NOT responsible to have an evaculation plan for the entire US population - because that is what would be required if it was a federal responsibility.


NO - it is a state and local responsibility.

Yet, it is all Bush's fault -


AND on top of it Nagin was not communicating with anyone - no one knew about the Convention Center -


So, blaming Obama for the LACK OF RESPONSE TO THE OIL SPILL - fair game.

Only this one is TOTALLY TRUE - THE defense department HAD RESOURCES WHICH SAT IDLE WHILE OBAMA CONCENTRATING ON PARTISAN ATTACKS.

IT WAS A MISTAKE - Obama made a severe severe attack over the past few weeks.

Simple.

The media gave Obama a pass on the FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM AGAINST THE TEA PARTY -


So Obama thought he would go for an attack based on the wall street bill


More hidden provisions????

Obama REALLY MESSED UP THIS TIME.


HE REALLY DID.

THIS ONE IS OBAMA'S FAULT - HISTORY WILL RECORD IT THAT WAY.

Sending Napolitano out to say "BP" 47 times in a news conference DOES NOT CUT IT.


It is Obama's fault.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

mark_in_austin


I respect with everything you said about Katrina, but it was all Bush's fault, right?

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 11:10 PM | Report abuse

you are welcome to rewrite history and blame Obama if that floats your boat.
-------------------------------
An image is worth a 1000 words. The images of people crying for help in the Astrodome, crying for help on the roofs, of dead bodies on the sidewalk are writ permanently on the imaginations of Americans. The sound bite, "good job, Brownie" lives forever.

The clip of Bush standing on the aircraft carrier with the sign "Mission Accomplished" with years of war to come, we'll never forget. The image of Dick Cheney sneering that Iraq could land missiles here in 45 minutes is seered onto our minds. The image of Colin Powell convincing the UN that the US has proof of WMD in Iraq lives forever.

The chants of Drill, Baby, Drill is memorable.
Newt Gingrich even coined his own variation, Drill Here, Drill Now.

You can say it ain't so, that people don't remember all these things. You can say Alexander didn't really conquer the world, that Caesar didn't conquer Gaul, that the Japanese didn't sneak up on us at Pearl Harbor, that Stalin was a kind uncle and Nelson Mandela was really a terrorist. You might even have some points, but history has already been written on these subjects.

History has been written on Iraq. History has been written on Katrina. History is being written right now on offshore drilling.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

I worked volunteering in the Austin Convention Center during Katrina. We had over 20K refugees - Houston had 7x as many. But it took a lot of volunteers to get those kids into school and to set up temp jobs and connections with missing relatives, and cots, and blankets, Leichtman, I am sure it was even more hectic in Houston.

In retrospect, the Army Corps of Engineers was villain #1 in New Orleans and remains so, having refused the Dutch offer of engineering help to rebuild the levees to a higher standard.

Blanco, who was pissed at Nagin for having supported Jindal in his previous bid, sat on her hands dry in Baton Rouge and refused National Guard help from NM and TX until it was too late to get them in by any means whatsoever. She was villain #2.

GWB just plain blew it, but he was merely villain #3, sort of after the fact.

As ddawd said, the levees "underperformed", it was a man made disaster.

This catastrophe is a man made one, but differs in that it was unpredictable based on the previous 20 years of experience. The USCG was on it from the beginning and for days it looked manageable. Now we know that it is not imminently manageable, and it looms as a monumental task. I expect to see huge naval and coast guard efforts and national guard on the beaches.
I do not think this Admin will look the other way.

Leichtman thanks for reminding me how different Harris is from Houston - heck, I know that. But I used to think of Harris when I was at Rice in 1960 as Pasadena and Galena Park and Baytown and Texas City and South Houston; sort of Ship Channel industrial towns, not Katy and Sugarland and Spring Branch, etc.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | May 1, 2010 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Obama actually said


"this is a big f&*%$ MEAL"

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 10:54 PM | Report abuse

the best joke was people complain about there are a few hidden provisions in the health care bill, actually there are hundreds of them.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 10:48 PM | Report abuse

He being Eddie Vedder.

Posted by: DDAWD | May 1, 2010 10:46 PM | Report abuse

By the way, I just came back from Jazz Fest with Pearl Jam being the headliner of the day. (nothing says jazz like Pearl Jam, right?)

He had some kind words for the BP execs. If their kids need a nice beach to go to for vacation, there are several around here they could spend their time at.

Mark, Leichtman, thanks for your takes on the gov election. It certainly looks within reach given the Republican house effect of Rasmussen polls.

Posted by: DDAWD | May 1, 2010 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Now you know why the Oil Slick is so bad


Obama's jokes were better than Leno's jokes.


Obama spent much of the past two weeks writing jokes.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 10:44 PM | Report abuse

all the Ds voted for Iraq, no not really, and then turned on the troops??? right like providing them body armor and making them pay out of pocket for their food and uniforms and multiple deployments that the SOS failed to plan for. Nice revisionist history on your part.
Again I don t know any of my R neighbors who would not find fault for Bush's handling of Katrina and his claim that he didn t know what was going on at the Superdome when we were all watching it on CNN. I spent 2 weeks at the Astrodome that year helping the evacuees and can't remember meeting a single person there who had a kind word for Bush, but hey what do they know? Blame the Army Corp of Engineers and Bush's stubborn refusal to adequately fund proper construction of the levies, an extravagance that we were told would bust the budget. Hundreds of buses came to the Astrodome from N.O. that was far from a major problem but you are welcome to rewrite history and blame Obama if that floats your boat.

Posted by: leichtman1 | May 1, 2010 10:36 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Point taken - however you said that the slick was 3 times larger than they thought it would be - which appears to be an actual measurement.

Your question was - was the rate of flow increasing - or constant.

I say, when you are on a oil platform which is burning -


and it is about to fall into the sea -


And you are concerned about getting on a boat or a helicopter.....


because the platform is on fire and it is about to fall into the sea


So the estimates taken then ...... you ask if you think I believe those estimates are correct?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 10:32 PM | Report abuse

The original estimates had to be wrong - this is all underwater - how is any of that supposed to be estimated ???


The slick is spreading out by the wind.

My guess is the rate has been constant - at the higher level.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 10:05 PM
-----------------------------------
You indicate the discharge can't be estimated, and then you estimate it. It's a good thing you have no influence on anything important.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Brigade, you are right that Katrina was a man made disaster. I was in New Orleans when it hit. The storm itself didn't do much. Some pretty flimsy structures were still standing and the flooding was like a foot or two. Not much at all. Then I go to sleep and wake up the next day to find the water had risen to like ten feet. If the levees had held, there would be no talk about Katrina. It's hard to really put blame on anyone in power at the time for the levees failing, though.

But the evac was botched as well. Governor Blanco took a huge share of the blame. Her approval ratings simply cratered after Katrina. She wasn't defeated because she didn't seek reelection. And would have had no chance of winning. People were so mad at the Dems that Bobby Jindal ran on a ballot of like half a dozen people and took over 50%, preventing a runoff election. Nagin wasn't really blamed in the state. The only people who blamed him were cable TV talking heads who were trying to deflect criticism from Bush.

And Bush's transgressions extended far beyond the evac. So many people I know were complaining about how the administration was dragging its feet on financial aid as well as administration contact. That was a huge change after Obama came in. It seemed like there was always someone here from the administration.

Spread the blame how you want, but people in 49 states can't vote for Louisiana Governor. They can, however, vote to reject the governing principles that allowed people like Mike Brown to reach FEMA head. They can and they did

Posted by: DDAWD | May 1, 2010 10:17 PM | Report abuse

Berry is not funny at all. He seems petty and mean.

Posted by: Moonbat | May 1, 2010 10:16 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


The original estimates had to be wrong - this is all underwater - how is any of that supposed to be estimated ???


The slick is spreading out by the wind.

My guess is the rate has been constant - at the higher level.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse

leichtman


We need a real man in the White House -


Not a metrosexual like Obama.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

The visible oil slick is 3x larger now than was anticipated. There is some thought that the rate of oil release has now increased. Anyone reading anything about this, and what is your reaction to this possibility?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Brigade

Einstein had his theory of relatively.


Obama's job performance is horrible - all he had done is push through the LARGEST TAX INCREASE IN AMERICAN HISTORY - during a deep recession.


Not only idealogically is this way out of step with the country, but it is incredibly STUPID from an economic point of view.

This from a guy who was supposed to be so smart - a Harvard guy who never wrote an article but was head editor, yea right.

Obama was elected to be a uniter - and all he has done is divide.

How ridiculous can that be ?


The whole administration has been one giant exercise in hypocrisy.

If one went back and listened to one of Obama's campaign speeches from 2008, even the democrats would instantly start to vomit.

This administration is doing GREAT DAMAGE TO THIS COUNTRY - DELAYING IMPORTANT ECONOMIC ACTIONS ON THE ECONOMY.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 9:49 PM | Report abuse

37th wrote,
"So you are saying that Obama is better than Jimmy Carter ?"

I'm just saying the jury is still out. Obama's only been in office 15 months. The present often seems worse than the past because you're living in it.

People have recently remarked that Justice Stevens was considered moderate when he was appointed to the Supreme Court. But compared to whom? I remember well the bad ole days when liberals held sway on the Court. Without actually reading a Supreme Court decision, one way you could tell if it had merit was if Douglas, Marshall, and Brennan were united in dissent. Compared to William Douglas, Barack Obama is a moderate and Bill Clinton is a right wing kook.

Posted by: Brigade | May 1, 2010 9:35 PM | Report abuse

leichtman1


You can be nice too.


Nagin had a whole fleet of school buses to get people out - yet Bush was blamed the whole way through.

You think that was fair to Bush ?

All the democrats voted for the Iraq War - then they turned on our fighting men and women - and suddenly everything was Bush's fault.


Yea, I suppose you would rather have a hypocrite in office.

Nothing I say is not fair - it is all based on standards set by the democrats - that means YOU.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

drinl


now now now stop with the personal attacks, you aren't being nice.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 9:30 PM | Report abuse

The ENTIRE COUNTRY knows that 37 has nothing to do with his life but post here.

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 9:20 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues writes:


what other factors contributed to the cause (of the oil spill)

____________________________


Obama didn't act fast enough so it's much much worse because of him.

It's simple.


Obama was off trying to be partisan for the last week - it was a national disgrace - but not as bad as falsely charging the tea party movement with racism.

This country will be much, much better off when Obama is out of office -


Obama is really, really divisive.

We need someone to UNITE THE COUNTRY.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 9:19 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues

Now I really have the right to call you knucklehead - the Washington Post has a live feed of the dinner

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2005/04/12/VI2005041201139.html


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 9:12 PM | Report abuse

You are the only apologist still defending Potus Bush and heck of a Job Brownie.
Even with all of your Obama rants Bush left office with a 21 per cent popularity; Obama's is currently 51 per cent Bush would have loved to have.
So keep posting your vile rants b/c no one is listening.

Posted by: leichtman1 | May 1, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Brigade

This topic is certainly worthy of discussion - Obama is the worst President since........

So you are saying that Obama is better than Jimmy Carter ?

I agree that Carter was bad, but Obama is much worse - because Carter was not really a hypocrite

James Buchanan was pretty bad - He sat there and allowed the nation to become more divided when he was talking about unitied everyone.


Sort of like what Obama is doing.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

shrink2 wrote,
"I don't think people realize this is just starting. I don't think people realize anything."

I agree. Unfortunately, you will seldom see the incident referenced on this blog without some attempt to link it to Republicans---except for 37th. There's just nothing bad that happens in the world that isn't some Republican's fault.

Posted by: Brigade | May 1, 2010 9:05 PM | Report abuse

leichtman1


Now you know how Bush felt.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

Six ROVs are down there, some bloggers using technical jargon are saying scary things...
---------------------------
Have any links? I would like to be following the actual event too. Don't have TV, only web.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 8:58 PM | Report abuse

37th wrote,
"THEN WE WOULD HAVE TO SAY Obama was the WORST SINCE JAMES BUCHANAN."

We don't have to go back that far anymore. I think Jimmy Carter has set the bar, or should I say the bottom. He is now the gold standard for incompetence in high office. Even Ted Kennedy didn't want him to have a second term; and that was back when Kennedy was knocking back the grog 24/7.

Posted by: Brigade | May 1, 2010 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Mark, the thing that seems so bizarre now is the lack of credible technical information.

Six ROVs are down there, some bloggers using technical jargon are saying scary things...

I don't think people realize this is just starting. I don't think people realize anything.

Our minds are set on the "oil spill" not on this. Political people are already ranting as if this is over, as if it already happened.

Posted by: shrink2 | May 1, 2010 8:54 PM | Report abuse

Brigade


Yea, I know, I know I know - the democrats are trying to BLAME CHENEY for the Oil Spill.

Not going to work.

Obama did NOT act fast enough - he was too busy trying SMEAR the Republicans over the wall street bill -


We all knew that was candy that Obama just couldn't resist reaching for.

However, we have to remember how horrible this is for Obama - CAUGHT BEING PARTISAN - CAUGHT MAKING POLITICAL HAY -


AND NOT DOING HIS JOB.

Obama's job performance is the WORST SINCE HOOVER -


BUT MAYBE HOOVER WAS A BETTER PRESIDENT


THEN WE WOULD HAVE TO SAY Obama was the WORST SINCE JAMES BUCHANAN.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Tornados and flooding hit Nashville, must be Obama's fault. Why didn't he and his administration plan for that. The earthquakes in Haiti and China his fault.And how about that volcano and what that did to flights, you guessed it all Obama's fault. Palin has a direct pipeline to god. Wouldn t have all those problems if she was in charge.

Posted by: leichtman1 | May 1, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues wrote,
"This catastrophe is not considered an act of God, is it?"

Ah ha! Some more of my Holmesian logic:
You, sir, are not a Calvinist!

Posted by: Brigade | May 1, 2010 8:47 PM | Report abuse

So far, the only clear blame is being placed on BP. They are expected to pay for damage done by their wells and they are paying even as we speak. This catastrophe is not considered an act of God, is it?

The question is, as with other monumental catastrophes, what other factors contributed to the cause.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 8:39 PM | Report abuse

From Cal Thomas' most recent column, distibuted by Tribune Media Services:

First paragraph: "Unemployment in America is hovering at just below 10 percent, so President Obama hosted a 'Summit on Entrepreneurship' in Washington, D.C., in an effort to boost economic development . . . in Muslim nations."

He goes on to say this effort is intended to "change Muslim attitudes about the United States."

You really don't need to know much of the rest.

Last paragraph: "The Obama entrepreneurship summit is about as useful as President Clinton's midnight basketball program to curb street crime."

Perfect! A juxtaposition that would make T.S. Eliot proud. Charles should have been a poet instead of a columnist.

Sometimes words just get in the way.

Posted by: Brigade | May 1, 2010 8:36 PM | Report abuse

Brigade


My feeling on the topic of New Orleans - the disaster in New Orleans was caused by the idiots who issued building permits to land six feet below sea level.


Sorry -


The point I believe you are trying to make is that the democrats managed to turn Katrina into a political issue -


Even though Nagin was a democrat - had a fleet of school buses


But Nagin and the democratic Governor who had primary responsibility for the CONTINGENCY PLANS AND FOR THE EVACUATION.

But when they failed, they pointed the finger at Bush - and someone the media was desperate to say Bush was not competent - so there you have it.


Well well NOW you have Obama doing something much worse - waiting MORE TIME THAN BUSH - WITH FEDERAL RESOURCES SITTING IDLE -

This one is OBAMA'S FAULT - BY THE STANDARDS OF THE DEMOCRATS WHICH THEY SET JUST 5 YEARS AGO.


The democrats have set their standards - now Obama has to be judged by them.

Obama is a miserable failure - and he should resign immediately.

Maybe when Obama finishes delivering his jokes tonight he can start to really think about what to do in the Gulf - because up to now, Obama HAS BEEN SOLELY CONCERNED WITH AVERTING BLAME FOR DOING NOTHING.

While still doing nothing..........


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 8:34 PM | Report abuse

I hate to see this catastrophe turned into just another political football, but I guess that's the nature of politics.

Drindl has said this cannot be compared to Katrina, because Katrina's damage was not caused by man. But is that true? Wasn't the real damage in New Orleans caused not by the storm, but by the surge and subsequent flooding, which occurred after fiendish gill-men sent by G.W. Bush blew up the levees? How soon we forget?

If we must assign blame for this underground gusher, it absolutely has to be Bush's or Cheney's fault. Wait . . . my tin foil hat just blew off!

Posted by: Brigade | May 1, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

hey mark I saw your 12:17 about Bill White and the Harris County vote and responded in detail from my iphone that apparently didn't post.posting from an iphone is no fun.

Sorry but you confuse Houston politics with Harris Cty politics. Houston elections are non partisan by nature although the D candidate has won every election in my lifetime. That in itself should tell you something about our politics. Like any big city Houston like Richmond Va proper has more ethnic diversity then Harris Cty. Unfortnately of our 4.5 million citizens, there are almost 2:1 in Cty population, I believe, then in our city. White is enormously popular with Houstonians, as long as he does not wear the partisan hat, less so when judged by the burbs. You remember Tom DeLay(going to trial soon) represented a very conservative district called Sugarland that borders Harris and Ft, Bend Counties is probably 75% R and likely that for Governor as is Katy which is more like 80% R and which I warned you would take down Dougherty(I believe he was the guy from Austin running for Congress in 2008). My guess is that White will need closer to 70% of Houston's vote imho to counter the 40-50% tally he will likely garner in the more conservative part of Houston we call Harris Cty and stretching out to the burbs and Ft. Bend Cty. The good part though is that White has universal name id both in Houston and Harris Cty and need not spend much in our expensive tv market but can use that money wisely for local GOTV. I point out the difference b/w Houston and Harris Cty politics b/c I have several close friends who have unsuccesfully run for cty atty, as is my current lawschool friend currently running for cty judge, who were wildly popular in their Houston city counsel races but couldn't make that leap in their cty races. Except for 2008 Ds have recently struggled in Cty Judge races as well. The bottom line is w/n the same affluent R Houstonians who have repeatedly supported White for mayor, will do so when they see a D by his name in the Nov ballot. Its going to be a lot closer than the WP and CC thinks b/c White is a savvy politican with a calming style and lots of business support here locally.

Apparently CC does not appreciate the national implications of besting Rick Pery, who many moderates have simply tired of; he's overstayed his welcome.

Were you surprised mark that Perry took the coward's way out on the Az controversy? Apparently conservatives who would have been
going nuts had White taken that position are prepared to give Perry a pass on his hypocrisy. Can't wait until their first debate when White glares at Perry and ask him if he would commit to vetoing any such bill if it comes out of our state legislature next January as promised.

Posted by: leichtman1 | May 1, 2010 7:52 PM | Report abuse

shrink, as someone who two weeks ago was a true believer in the safety valves [I had seen them demonstrated], I never considered the possibility of hitting something that would blow the valve apart. This catastrophe was so bad that the likelihood of another twenty years of safe drilling is not enough to justify more permits. I do not think any valve mechanism would have quieted this explosion and gusher. The existing pumping stations remain safe because of their valving, I am sure. But I now no longer support more exploration offshore.

Ddawd and leichtman, at 12:17 PM I posted a reply to ddawd about Perry v. White. I hoped leichtman could give his view, if it materially differs from mine [or even if it does not].

Posted by: mark_in_austin | May 1, 2010 7:07 PM | Report abuse

Your hatred soils this site and undermines the very reason folks take time away from their lives to engage in political discourse.
Even under the First Amendment the Wp has the right to establish basic rules of civility that you violate every day.

In Con Law we studied the first amendment theory called the Heckler heckler Veto. That is precisely what your incessant rants here have become a heckler veto of all reasonable discussion. I have had no problem interacting with other conservatives like zouk aka comrade and brigate. In reality opposing political views are what makes political blogs succesful. Unfortunately I have seen several succesful political sites collapse under the weight of a few out of control irrational ranters who refuse to curb their emotions. I doubt that I am alone in my sentiments among conservatives or progressives that come to this site. I once again implore you to tone down your rants, stop spamming this stite and stop trying so hard to bring this site down.

Posted by: leichtman1 | May 1, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

The ENTIRE COUNTRY knows that 37 has nothing to do with his life but post here.

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

The ENTIRE COUNTRY knows that Obama wasted valuable time over the past few weeks - when federal resources - which were SITTING IDLE - could have been mobilized.


This is another parking lot full of Nagain's school buses.


The democrats are quick to point the finger - but to get them to admit something is OBAMA'S FAULT - is virtually impossible.

THAT IS WHY THE DEMOCRATS HATE THE TRUTH.

Obama's OIL SPILL IS MUCH WORSE THAN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IF OBAMA HAD ACTED QUICKLY.

Clearly, Obama and the White House were more concerned with pushing a FALSE NARRATIVE ON THE WALL STREET BILL.

Obama wanted to hold PARTISAN VOTES ALL WEEK - AIMED AT TRYING TO MAKE THE OTHER SIDE LOOK BAD.


How about doing your job Obama - instead of doing the EXACT OPPOSITE from what you were elected to do - PARTISAN BICKERING.

Obama got his hand caught in the cookie jar - and the only honorable thing to do would be to resign - BUT DON'T EXPECT OBAMA TO DO ANYTHING HONORABLE.


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 6:52 PM | Report abuse


leichtman1


Russia, China, North Korea , Cuba

The list of countries you can move to is dwindling -

YOU SAY YOU DONT WANT TO LIVE WITH THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

So move to a country that does not have the First Amendment.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

37 has done nothing but post here today... saturday afternoon. psychotic.


'Today, for the first time I read somewhere something about possibility one, something about the concrete around the pipe being blown out and that's the possible source of the gusher. I don't know if that means that, if that were the case, nothing could be done to mitigate the flow.

Regardless how this turns out, anytime you have a catastrophe that cannot be mitigated quickly, and we caused that catastrophe by our own actions, we have to recognize that we are working beyond our capability. Drindl reports that some people believe there is a half million dollar solution that would have mitigated the blowoff. If true, this is unforgivable. "

Yes, well -- Dick Cheney in his secret negotiations with oil companies was the one to agree to remove the requirement for that remote switchoff valve... and Halliburton wa the company that was in the process of cementing the well when the 'accident' occurred. Go figure, huh?

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

leichtman1

The main problem is the lack of civil discourse on the part of Obama - how can he get up there and complain about the socialist name-calling, when he and his people have been FALSELY CALLING PEOPLE RACIST FOR WEEKS????

If Obama wants to claim the high ground, he SHOULD START WITH HIS OWN ACTIONS.


Instead, Obama appears to want to criticize EVERYONE ELSE - but he is allowed to break his own rules.


Give us a break.

AND leichtman1, take a look at the blog when the liberals run wild - it sure seems like THE LIBERALS ARE ABUSING THE BLOG.


you can't even decide who you like Obama or Hillary - first for six months you were against Obama, now you are for him.

Too bad for you that the whole country has gone the other way.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Obama has really got to be kidding - complaining about being called a socialist - BUT not saying ANYTHING about the FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM which he has been pushing for the past month.

Obama really has a problem in his head - there must be some mental deficiency with him.

Seriously - how can any human being talk in such a way - claiming what Obama claims - but then ACT THE WAY OBAMA HAS ACTED ?


Obama must resign -

Obama has POISONED OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM - HE HAS NOT MADE ANYTHING BETTER - WHICH IS WHAT HE WAS ELECTED TO DO - INSTEAD HIS OWN ACTIONS HAVE MADE THE SITUATION WORSE - AND IT IS NOT WRONG TO DEMAND THAT OBAMA RESIGN IMMEDIATELY.

This country would be far off without Obama.


The country has to be run correctly - and with a degree of professionalism which OBAMA JUST LACKS. This has got to stop.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 6:05 PM | Report abuse

37th is deliberately destroying this site with his relentless spam posts. He knows precisely what he is doing to destroy this site It's time we boycott this site until the WP cleans it up. Enough is enough as no one here is the least bit interested in his garbage that he trys to pass off as intelligent discourse I urge everyone to stop posting and leave 37th here completely alone until he is removed by CC or the WP. It has nothing to do with the Frstt Amenent. It has everything to do with the abuse of that right and his continued refusal to engage in civil discourse.

Posted by: leichtman1 | May 1, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Obama's Oil Spill is spreading - it is getting worse and worse.


Obama wasted valuable time when the spill could have been made much less worse.

Obama was more concerned with trying to smear the Republicans this week - and more concerned with political posturing than doing his actual job over the past few weeks.

Has anyone noticed - but Obama's job performance has been HORRIBLE in 2010.


Obama should resign immediately. After all the criticism of Bush over Katrina - saying that Bush did not act enough in the 48 hours after the hurricane - THIS HAS BEEN A WEEK NOW - and what has Obama done

EVEN TODAY OBAMA IS MORE CONCERNED WITH HYPOCRISY THAN WORKING ON THE OIL SPILL.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

The voters who dont care about hypocrisy - Obama can keep those votes


The voters who don't read the news - Obama can probably keep those votes.

The voting blocks which Obama can keep are shrinking.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


You still can't bring yourself to be honest - and actually say that Obama came out in favor of the EXPANDED OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING - ALL UP AND DOWN BOTH COASTS.


AND he said it was safe.


AND last week the White House CLAIMED the oil spill was not as worse as it IS.


Last week Obama was more concerned with SMEARING THE REPUBLICANS WITH FALSE CHARGES.


You NOW realize that Obama is a NATIONAL DISGRACE.


Obama acts like a crybaby today because he was called a socialist.

Meanwhile, he has been calling people RACIST for the last month.


What is WRONG WITH THIS GUY ??? IN ANY OTHER JOB HE WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED ALREADY.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

SO glad you asked, 37th.

Michael Steele, chairman of the Republican National Committee, is captured on video lapping up applause after he used the line in a speech at the 2008 Republican convention. Rudy Guiliani uttered “drill, baby, drill” like a stuck phonograph needle during the McCain/Palin campaign. Sarah Palin, in a vice presidential debate with Democratic candidate Joe Biden, became an oil industry poster child when she said “The chant is ‘drill, baby, drill.’ And that’s what we hear all across this country in our rallies because people are so hungry for those domestic sources of energy to be tapped into.” Following that performance, the term was exploited to death with a drill baby drill video, drill baby drill bumper stickers and a drill baby drill movie.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

What, only FIVE Fix blurbs on Charlie Crist, including three consecutive ones, in the past week? What gives? :)

BTW, there's a teeny weeny political story percolating about veteran Utah Senator Bennett being in danger of not winning his GOP primary. Apparently the "quasi-libertarian" teabaggers turned on him just as they turned on Graham, er, for different reasons. Developing (outside Fix World)...

Posted by: broadwayjoe | May 1, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

12Bar


"Those who claimed that we had achieved safety in off-shore drilling operations, clearly have egg on their faces. "


_____________________________

You can't bring yourself to say it was Obama, can you ?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

This Gulf Shores slow motion catastrophe is beginning to feel like a real turning point in our energy and environmental policy. Those who claimed that we had achieved safety in off-shore drilling operations, clearly have egg on their faces. Meanwhile, as the economy improves, oil prices will increase the pressure to drill.

There is nothing like reality to slap us in the face and shake us out of our lethargy. I really can't imagine how this will ultimately work out, except that the anti-regulatory types look damned foolish right now.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Obama comes off with this holier-than-thou attitude - BUT OBAMA'S BEHAVOIR IS WORSE THAN ANYONE ELSE'S.

Obama's speech today was a NATIONAL DISCRACE.

A month after Obama's democratic ATTACK MACHINE WENT OFF ON FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM AGAINST THE TEA PARTY.


AND a week after the Partian attacks and Partisan smearing over the Wall Street issue.

This has GOT TO STOP - OBAMA IS POISONING OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM - AND OBAMA SHOULD RESIGN IMMIDIATELY AND LET THIS NATION GET ON WITH ITS BUSINESS.

This crap from Obama has to STOP.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Obama doesn't like to hear the word socialist - but apparently he is willing to see the word "racist" thrown around like water -

We have to get rid of this guy Obama as soon as his term is up.

Obama is the one poisioning the political atmosphere - very few others - Obama is the one causing the trouble - clear and simple.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Obama doesn't like to hear the word socialist - but apparently he is willing to see the word "racist" thrown around like water -

We have to get rid of this guy Obama as soon as his term is up.

Obama is the one poisioning the political atmosphere - very few others - Obama is the one causing the trouble - clear and simple.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

From a stricly political POV, how would you like to have your opponent running TV spots with you shouting "DRILL, BABY, DRILL" to your cheering, red-faced, southern-accented, social-securitied supporters.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

There are three possibilities, one, the well head plumbing breaks and the flow becomes a gusher, unstoppable, horrible, two, everything stays the same down there and the relief well, 3 months from now will slow and then stop this rate of flow (also horrible) and three, there will be found some way to shut it off soon.


Posted by: shrink2 | May 1, 2010 2:09 PM
----------------------------------------
---------------------------------
From listening to the BP guys, it's hard to believe that they think they are right on the edge of possibility three. They are putting their efforts into possibility two.

Today, for the first time I read somewhere something about possibility one, something about the concrete around the pipe being blown out and that's the possible source of the gusher. I don't know if that means that, if that were the case, nothing could be done to mitigate the flow.

Regardless how this turns out, anytime you have a catastrophe that cannot be mitigated quickly, and we caused that catastrophe by our own actions, we have to recognize that we are working beyond our capability. Drindl reports that some people believe there is a half million dollar solution that would have mitigated the blowoff. If true, this is unforgivable.

Has anyone tried to compare the value coming from off shore drilling to the economic and environment catastrophe to the Gulf? My question: was it worth it?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry, that was imprecise wording.

No, it is not a spill. It is a gusher on the ocean floor coming directly from the oil reservoir under the entire Gulf. It was like hitting an artery.

No one really knows how to deal with it.

You are right dawd, that only a few countries require that switch; but many companies use it anyway -- but not, of course, Halliburton, was was managing this well.

It's just jaw-dropping how much this will cost taxpayers to clean up -- and the truth is, it may destroy the entire coast anyway -- marine life, fisheries, tourism -- blam.

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Satellite photos show it has tripled in size in the last 24 hours. This is not an oil spill.

Is this right?

There are three possibilities, one, the well head plumbing breaks and the flow becomes a gusher, unstoppable, horrible, two, everything stays the same down there and the relief well, 3 months from now will slow and then stop this rate of flow (also horrible) and three, there will be found some way to shut it off soon.


Posted by: shrink2 | May 1, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

One thing I learned in business is this: Never take a risk that will crater the business, no matter how small the probability it will occur.

If there is a half million solution that would have capped a well that is now gushing and destroying the Gulf Shores, there is NO excuse for making that decision. None.

At least, the financial system has the slim reed of an excuse that they used Credit Default Swaps to try to limit their exposure. Of course, no one anticipated the crisis when the CDS all cratered at the same time.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

drindl wrote: Let us not forget that Katrina was a storm, and this is a spill caused by BP and Halliburton negligence.

This is the really incoherent part -- the wingers would rather see US taxpayers pay for this than a foreign company who caused it.
-----------------------------------------------
Actually, I wouldn't even call it a spill. That implies that this has a limited amount to spill. Really, this is a gusher that no one knows how to cap, and no one has capped it yet, and the best idea TO cap it involves months. In a lot of ways, the BP well-gone-wild is a lot like the financial crisis. A medley of private industry enabled by government regulators who had been called off by the anti-regulation Republicans, decided they could take bigger risks than they knew how to handle. Then when the "thousand year event" that never was supposed to happen, happens, well, who is BIG enough, RICH enough, and AT RISK enough--it's the American taxpayers. Once again.

We can all argue to nausea whether BP is too big to fail, should be bailed, shouldn't be bailed. Personally, I would euthanize BP right now. But, it's a pyrric victory to have BP in bankruptcy while the Gulf Shores is awash in oil.

The problem is that, as a society, we need to rethink the premise that we delegate responsibility for our financial system, oru economy, our environment, and our food supply to private industry, trusting they won't do anything stupid.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I thought those acoustic switches are only mandated in a few countries.

Posted by: DDAWD | May 1, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Something else I just saw -- will the MSM even report on this?

'Mike Papantonio, an environmental lawyer-- An 'acoustic switch' would have prevented this catastrophe - it's a failsafe that shuts the flow of oil off at the source - they cost only about half a million dollars each, and are required in off-shore drilling platforms in most of the world...except for the United States.

This was one of the new deregulations devised by Dick Cheney during his secret meetings with the oil industry at the beginning of Bush's first term.

Mr. Papantonio said he is amazed that this part of the story hasn't been reported yet - that it's really the key to the whole thing - that it's yet another classic example of Bush/Cheney Era deregulation wreaking havoc on the planet."

And of course, the oil platform in question was run by Halliburton.

From the Wall Street Journal, an article titled Leaking Oil Well Lacked Safeguard Device:

The oil well spewing crude into the Gulf of Mexico didn't have a remote-control shut-off switch used in two other major oil-producing nations as last-resort protection against underwater spills.

The lack of the device, called an acoustic switch, could amplify concerns over the environmental impact of offshore drilling after the explosion and sinking of the Deepwater Horizon rig last week."

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, the Obama's Katrina thing was pretty funny, wasn't it? Republicans sure seem to feast on tragedy.

Posted by: DDAWD | May 1, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

"I think the TP is the unpleasant artifact created by talk radio's shrill anti-intellectual, anti-establishment rants, and now plague the R Party by biting at their flanks."

Exactly right.

One of my favorite quotes of today--

"You all know what is going to come next, don’t you? After spending a few days getting no traction calling the oil spill in the Gulf “Obama’s Katrina,” it is going to be most excellent watching the usual suspects pirouette and attack Obama for being too hard on the oil industry."

And which of the 'liberal' media will be the first in the rush to call this 'Obama's Katrina' on the talking heads shows tomorrow?

Let us not forget that Katrina was a storm, and this is a spill caused by BP and Halliburton negligence.

This is the really incoherent part -- the wingers would rather see US taxpayers pay for this than a foreign company who caused it.

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Prediction: Congress will start hearings on the role of Minerals Management Service (MMS) federal regulators in the well-gone-wild in the Gulf.

Ironically, the annual “2010 Annual Industry SAFE Awards Luncheon” was scheduled on May 3. Perhaps recognizing that now is not the time to applaud the oil industry for safety on the job, MMS postponed the event.

To pile on even more irony, last year, BP was among the winners.

I had forgotten this: During the Bush administration, MMS was embroiled in scandal over its employees being in bed (sometimes literally) with the oil industry it was supposed to be regulating.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

@dindl,

The Tea Party movement is illogical, but I don't think it is incoherent. I think the TP are defined by their inconsistencies. I think they will continue to shout for smaller government and simultaneously shout for more government. If being illogical was all it took to doom a political party, they would already be dead. No, I think the TP is the unpleasant artifact created by talk radio's shrill anti-intellectual, anti-establishment rants, and now plague the R Party by biting at their flanks.

I think the R party will be defined by its contributors. Where will the money go? My simple minded analysis is this: if the big money goes to the establishment R's--eventually their viewpoint will win. If the big money goes to the right wing TP types, then their viewpoint will win. It looks to me like the establishment types are on the winning side. Rubio's siding with the establishment was particularly telling.

I don't see how the bifurcation of the Republican party helps them win elections in 2010/2012. But, I have to admit, watching this daily mud fest is extremely entertaining.

Who would have guessed that as soon as the R's adopt "DRILL, BABY, DRILL" there would be a well gone mad which destroys the Gulf Coast. Watch the bifurcation widen even on this issue. I see Mrs. Palin is whispering on her Facebook page, "drill, baby, drill" even now.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

"The schism between the far right wing who likes the AZ undoc law, and the more moderate R establishment who don't, is pretty clear."

The schism is growing, 12 Bar and that's what's going to change the narrative for the coming elections. The political press won't know what hit them, because they don't actually analyze, they just echo each other with their Republican cheerleading.

The tea party types don't have an actual position on anything- they're completely incoherent.

First they are screaming about more drilling and small government, now they are screaming about where is the big government to clean up private industry's mess -- at US taxpayer expensive. Oh, and don't touch my Medicare.

They shreik about bailouts and then they shreik equally loud against regulation that would prevent future meltdowns.

And whining about taxes when Obama cut taxes for 95% of americans this year.

This is a zombie of a political movement, a nihilistic and brain dead devolution.

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Take a day off and I missed a lot. I see Rick Perry has chosen up sides on the AZ undoc law, and wisely decided not to p* off his Hispanic voters. I wonder if AZ Republicans sitting WAY out on their branch, now realize they've been totally sawed off by their national R party. Let's see--Gingrich, Steele, Perry, Huckabee, Jeb Bush, Rubio...who else am I forgetting...all on the "This Is Not A Good Idea, Arizona" side.

The schism between the far right wing who likes the AZ undoc law, and the more moderate R establishment who don't, is pretty clear. Whose viewpoint will eventually win is more than I can imagine.

Now I read that AZ is tinkering with the language of the bill, trying to "correct" language. That says that the national criticism from the establishment R party is finding a mark. Maybe, AZ will "correct" the law until they "correct" it out of existence.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | May 1, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Oh, this is 'amusing' as well:

'Indeed, as Paulson writes in his own memoir on crisis, Cantor and other Republicans were “unformed” and unable to grasp economic policy as the financial system melted down.

As the economy collapsed in 2008, Boehner and other members of his leadership staged a protest for weeks to demand a vote for more offshore oil drilling.'

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

From a sane Republican, on the state of his party today:

"Former Maryland congressman Wayne Gilchrest, a moderate Republican who served from 1990-2008, left Congress after losing in the 2008 Republican primary to State Sen. Andy Harris (R-MD). Last weekend, Gilchrest offered his “straight shooter” views on the Republican Party to the Chestertown Spy.

GILCHREST: For example, when Obama asked a large contigent of Democrats and Republicans to come to the White House to begin to talk about the healthcare bill, the whip — who I know well, my good friend Eric Cantor from Virginia, a Republican — brings in the bill. Now he didn’t bring in suggestions. He didn’t want dialogue about how to make this better, he brought in a bill.

And when it was his time to discuss the issue, all he talked about was how big the bill, how complicated the bill is, how much they don’t have time to read the bill and all these things, which was really a waste of time. [...]

But the Republicans came to that meeting, and they planned prior to that meeting how they would try to disrupt that meeting. And the reason I say that is because I’ve been in many meetings with Republicans, as a Republican member of Congress, when they discuss certain pieces of legislation, but when they discuss how we can totally disrupt the Democratic majority from the subcommittee right on to the House floor.

That’s how often, that’s how meetings were at times. I remember one time Secretary Paulson came into a meeting to give us a heads up about potential economic calamity and we listened to him for 15 minutes and the Minority Leader, John Boehner, dismissed Mr. Paulson because we had to get to two things — how to disrupt the Democrats from the subcommittee to the House floor, and how to raise money for the next election. "

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

The Dean 'scream' was entirely media-created -- altered tapes. Just another MSM attempt to smear a Democrat.

Posted by: drindl | May 1, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Ddawd,

The TX D Party analyst says White has to run at 57% in Dallas County to win. BHO ran 57.28% in Dallas County.

They are counting on 61% in Travis [BHO won 64%].

They are counting on 60% in Harris County. BHO won 50.8%.

It is possible.

I think White will have to run at 65% in Harris, myself. Since he won the mayor's race in Houston with over 90%, and then remained popular, that Harris result is possible.

In the Big Empty, Perry is not beloved, so while he may run the 70%-90% in the rural 200+ counties that most Rs do, turnout may not be enthusiastic. Still, one can never be caught underestimating Goodhair as a campaigner.

White was just endorsed by the long time mayor of Grand Prairie, an R. GP is an aircraft manufacturing mid-city between D and FW. Pop 150K. One of my R clients is an avid White supporter. White's dad was his HS teacher, I learned after I had made too much of that in my own mind.

The Valley will not vote. It has not voted since Lloyd Bentsen left the room. Texican turn out in San Antonio, Austin, Houston, and Dallas, with actual middle class voters, should be a bit elevated
thanks to the profiling posiblilities inherent in AZ type legislation, but the Valley will stay home.

Perry should be favored, 3-2; if you get 2-1 odds bet White. I think Leichtman will agree there is a
path for White, but it is tough. Leichtman, what do you think of the 65% possibility in Harris? I feel good about 61%+ in Travis.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | May 1, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

leichtman1


Arizona is not anti-hispanic profiling - it is trying to enforce the law and solve the out-of-control problems in the State.

You are in favor of OPEN BORDERS

Instead of SMEARING SOMEONE, why don't you be honest and say you want to LEGALIZE ALL THE ILLEGALS - AND OPEN ALL THE BORDERS.


See - your crazy policies lead you to SMEAR people.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

NAME ONE COMPROMISE WHICH OBAMA did on health care.

Name one issue in which Obama met the Republicans in the middle.

THERE HE GOES AGAIN, TALKING ABOUT COMPROMISE - HOWEVER THERE HAS BEEN NO COMPROMISE FROM OBAMA.

Remember the health care summit - insult McCain - demand a 2500 page bill - and he will "throw in a few Republican ideas"


This guy Obama IS A COMPLETE JOKE.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

NOW Obama is saying that you can disagree with someone without demonizing them.

But WHAT was Obama doing SMEARING the
Republicans this week trying to tie them to Wall St interests.

AND WHAT ABOUT THE FALSE CHARGES OF RACISM.

Obama's actions are FAR DIFFERENT FROM HIS WORDS.


Hypocrite.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse


Obama is trying to defend MASSIVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING


- by saying the government built highways - so why wouldn't you want the government involved in health care

WEAK


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Bill White is within 4 points of Perry, Perry is below 50 per cent and conservatives give him a pass in his opposition to Az style antiHispanic profiling and yet CC gives that race zero coverage.Why the pass to Gov Hypocrit?they would be slamming Bill White had he taken that stand.

Posted by: leichtman1 | May 1, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse


From the New York Times:

The Department of Homeland Security waited until Thursday to declare that the incident was “a spill of national significance,” and then set up a second command center in Mobile. The actions came only after the estimate of the size of the spill was increased fivefold to 5,000 barrels a day.

The delay meant that the Homeland Security Department waited until late this week to formally request a more robust response from the Department of Defense, with Ms. Napolitano acknowledging even as late as Thursday afternoon that she did not know if the Defense Department even had equipment that might be helpful.

By Friday afternoon, she said, the Defense Department had agreed to send two large military transport planes to spray chemicals that can disperse the oil while it is still in the Gulf.

__________________________________

Clearly Obama and his people have been more concerned over the past two weeks with CREATING A FALSE NARRATIVE OF PARTISAN ATTACKS OVER THE WALL STREET BILL

- INSTEAD of actually doing the job and responding to the Oil Spill


Obama missed valuable windows to deal with this oil spill - AND IT IS NOW WORSE BECAUSE OF OBAMA.

Make no mistake - all the partisan democrats out there - MORE CONCERNED WITH SMEARING THE REPUBLICANS THAN ACTUALLY GOVERNING THE COUNTRY PROPERLY.

Obama should resign immediately - he has no idea what he is doing.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Speaking of Bill White, the last couple of Rasmussen polls have him within a few points of Perry. Think he can pull this one out?

Posted by: DDAWD | May 1, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Rick Perry is white. You think they go after one of their own?

Posted by: DDAWD | May 1, 2010 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Hypocrit

Every 5 minutes 37th slams Ds when it comes to the Az legislation

When it comes to one of his own, a R Gov Rick Perry who proclaims Interesting how 37th expresses his opposition to the Az. law he attacks and refuses to lodge his criticism against Perty, shame on you
Had Mayor White taken such a stand we all know what
37th and zouk would be sayng this am

Can you say Double Standard? Interesting how R apologists here give their leaders a pass when they take positions against policies they.rail against.

Hypocrit

Posted by: leichtman1 | May 1, 2010 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Hypocrit

Every 5 minutes 37th slams Ds when it comes to the Az legislation

When it comes to one of his own, a R Gov Rick Perry who proclaims Interesting how 37th expresses his opposition to the Az. law he attacks and refuses to lodge his criticism against Perty, shame on you
Had Mayor White taken such a stand we all know what
37th and zouk would be sayng this am

Can you say Double Standard? Interesting how R apologists here give their leaders a pass when they take positions against policies they.rail against.

Hypocrit

Posted by: leichtman1 | May 1, 2010 11:11 AM | Report abuse

THE MAJOR PROBLEM in the immigration debate is simple: these people are HERE ILLEGALLY.


Yet all the fingers are getting pointed at the authorities - NOT AT THOSE BREAKING THE LAW.

THE ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE BREAKING THE LAW - NOT ANYONE ELSE.

ALL THE MEDIA IS CONCERNED WITH IS THE PROCEDURES IN CATCHING THESE PEOPLE.

The media should be focused on the people who are Breaking the law.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

leichtman1


I guess the answer to your question is the Tea Party is more concerned with fiscal issues than with race.


Sort of proves it.

You are just looking for ANY EXCUSE TO CALL PEOPLE RACIST

You are a joke.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Just as I suspected, Gov Perry is a coward.
Yesterday he proclaimed that he would oppose the Az racial profiling bill in Texas. His conservative Texas apologists are silent today and giving him a pass, wonder why? Lets change that.

Where is the outrage zouk and 37th? You should be demanding protests in front of the Texas
Governor's mansion, the one he is renting at
Texas taxpayor's cost of $9000/month, demanding session and imposition of the Az law.
Where are the TeaPartiers and right wing Rs
when we need them?

Write Gov Perry's office and demand that Texas
join the kooks in Az and their antihispanic legislation.

This is Perry's link to let him know how ya feel:

http://www.governor.state.tx.us/contact/

Posted by: leichtman1 | May 1, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Obama wasted valuable time in responding to the Oil Spill.


That is an unavoidable fact.


The damage is much much greater because Obama was OBSESSED with creating false narrative of partisan attacks for the past 10 days over the wall street issue.


This is what happens when you have a president - off doing something very DIFFERENT from what he was elected to do - (work on bipartisan nogtiations and work WITH the other side) - and instead is off being PARTISAN.

Then there is the OIL SPILL - which Obama should have been giving much more attention to - OBAMA WASTED VALUABLE TIME AND IS REPSONSIBLE FOR MAKING THE OIL SPILL MUCH WORSE.

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse

The term "racial profiling" started with blacks being stopped on the highway by police without an expressed reason. That makes sense.


However, when you get to the issue of Arabs at the airport - we have a whole safety issue which was not present in the original highway example. I am not so sure that we have the same situation.

NOW we have a third situation in which the term "racial profiling" is being used - however we have the CONTEXT of the atmospher of 500,000 illegals in Arizona - the State of Arizona has the right to get these people out of there and to have them stop being a burden to society.

The State of Arizona should the BILL to Mexico for any services given to THEIR CITIZENS - INCLUDING EDUCATION. Perhaps in that situation, instead of Mexico's costs going down for its citizens being in the US, Mexico will not be so happy paying for the services.

The downside - I don't think the downside is so bad - if one is legal, one has to show an ID - IS THAT SO BAD? For the benefits of being in this country, US citizens should be WILLING to help law enforcement -

The downside is not that bad, and no one should really be complaining.

The real problem here is that there are groups which WANT TO ALLOW THE ILLEGALS TO STAY - AND THEY DO NOT WANT THE LAW ENFORCED.

That is the ISSUE - these people disagree with the immigration LAW ITSELF - not the enforcement procedures.


The people on this blog have to ask themselves : ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF OPEN BORDERS?


Because that is what these groups want.


.


Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Why did the immigrants take over the Mayday celebrations ? Don't they realize this is the big COMMUNIST HOLIDAY.

We all know Obama is celebrating today - but that is a separate issue.


Why would the immigrants take on such an anti-American holiday ???

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | May 1, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Mark, I agree. I just copied and pasted the whole tink, but my issue was with the banning of ethnic component classes

Posted by: DDAWD | May 1, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

If one prefers broadcast standard Canadian [Peter Jennings] I have no real issue with that. But broadcast standard 'Austraylan'? No, thank you. Not here; not now.

Some of my favorite broadcasters are off standard. Jim Lehrer, from OK; and Bob Schieffer, from TX, never quite lost their regional accents. They sound "right" to me, but should not be teaching ESL, in all fairness, any more than should Larry King, whose regional accent sounds "wrong" to me.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | May 1, 2010 7:41 AM | Report abuse

ddawd, the timing of "forcing school districts to fire or reassign teachers of English language-learning classes whose speech is deemed 'heavily accented or ungrammatical' is suspect. Ideally, you must admit, ESL teachers should speak broadcast standard American English, even in Nawlins.

I know that ethnic studies rejection is driven by chauvinism and a rejection of AZ's own history. It is a pale imitation of what we have been dealing with in TX with our StBdOfEd. But ESL teachers should actually sound like Brian Williams. My daughter #1 was thought to have been a German during her junior year in college in Graz, Austria, because the German she learned in HS and college was truly taught by broadcast standard German speakers. My late father-in-law came from Italy to this country in 1938 as a HS graduate and mastered English in the US Army 1942-6.
Until a stroke late in life he neither sounded like an Italian immigrant nor a New Yorker. I am sure that there is positive value to ESL being taught to a broadcast standard. If one prefers broadcast standard Canadian [Peter Jennings

Posted by: mark_in_austin | May 1, 2010 7:25 AM | Report abuse

Defenders of Arizona's divisive new immigration law insist that it is meant to enhance security, not promote hostility against certain ethnic groups. It's getting harder and harder for them to make that case. The Arizona Republic reports that the state legislature just passed a bill that would prohibit school districts from teaching courses with a strong ethnic component, aimed at shutting down a popular Mexican-American studies program in Tucson schools. And the Wall Street Journal reports that Arizona's Department of Education is forcing school districts to fire or reassign teachers of English language-learning classes whose speech is deemed "heavily accented or ungrammatical." State education auditors have complained that "some teachers pronounce words such as violet as 'biolet,' think as 'tink' and swallow the ending sounds of words, as they sometimes do in Spanish." Advocates of the new push for flawless English in classrooms say young students who are just learning English need teachers with perfect grammar and pronunciation. But they admit that "where you draw the line" in determining whether an accent is acceptable "is debatable." Teachers whose English is pronounced insufficiently perfect may take an "accent-reduction course," but if that doesn't clear up the problem, principals must assign teachers to mainstream classrooms or fire them.

http://slatest.slate.com/id/2252594/entry/4/

Posted by: DDAWD | May 1, 2010 2:31 AM | Report abuse

heh, I think I was like 12 or 13 when me and some friends entered a contest to race CO2 cars at NIST. Fun times.

Posted by: DDAWD | May 1, 2010 1:16 AM | Report abuse

Where is George bush? He should have dealt with this oil spill nine days ago. He should have ordered the navy to cap the well. He should have commanded the EPA to burn it off. That stupid George bush is probably busy making speeches and yukking it up. Does he hate shrimpers and life guards?

Posted by: Moonbat | May 1, 2010 12:35 AM | Report abuse

Lloyd Blankfein on Charlie Rose...

Posted by: mark_in_austin | May 1, 2010 12:34 AM | Report abuse

37

Those rags are always accusing liberals of cheating. I mean they even went after vp candidate John Edwards. Oh wait. Never mind.

Well they ganged up on Eliot spitz...... Umm

well you remember them attacking honest and faithful bill and Monica, errr I mean Hillary.

Well I'm sure berry is just the same. All will be denied, right up until the birth certificate is actually produced. Wait. I'm confused.

Posted by: Moonbat | April 30, 2010 11:59 PM | Report abuse

I was working up at NIST today. We got some interesting results, but it was a day off the grid. Having fun with our new iPad, though.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | April 30, 2010 11:56 PM | Report abuse

BB, did you happen to catch the first comments on today's morning fix? It was basically about how Halter, Blanche Lincoln's primary challenger was actually polling better against the different Republican candidates than she was.

Posted by: DDAWD | April 30, 2010 11:52 PM | Report abuse

I didn't mean to ignore you guys. I didn't know anyone was still around. Good stuff, 37. Thanks for the immigration link mark_in_austin. Maybe there's hope yet.

The sandman is calling.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 11:34 PM | Report abuse

Gee. I thought that the owner of the rig was BP. I guess Obama should have put on a wet suit and swam (swum) down to the sea floor himself and close the valve WITH HIS TEETH.

Or is there some solution 37th&Who knows how to stop the leak. If so, I recommend contacting BP. You'll save them a few billion$

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | April 30, 2010 11:29 PM | Report abuse

@mark - It was the mention of Perry. Still, any insight is always welcome.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | April 30, 2010 11:26 PM | Report abuse

There is a crazy oceanographer out there who is saying that the East coast of Florida is actually more at risk of the oil spill than the West Coast of Florida.


He bases this assertion on his expert knowledge of the currents.


He says the Gulf has a loop current, which may bring the oil south, through the Florida straits, and the Gulf Stream will bring the oil north.


If this happens, Obama will be blamed for longer than we think.


And the political consequence to Obama will extend to the East Coast of Florida.

OUCH.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 30, 2010 11:20 PM | Report abuse

Interesting, Mark.

I'm not sure where to put this, so I'll place the comment here. I viewed the first minute or so of the Video Fix. Two problems. I'm afraid that the audio sounds like you've got marbles in your mouth, CC. Having heard you on Diane Rehm today, you sounded in good voice. Perhaps the old Political Theatre set could be exhumed? [Sorry, didn't mean to bring up bad memories.]

Second problem. The most likely to switch seats tend to be snoozers. Blanche Lincoln's fight for survival is an interesting story. I assume the Dakota seat is gone gone gone for the Democrats. How about a race of the week? Missouri looks fascinating. It's not in the top 3, but it's still one of the more interesting ones out there for me.

Cheers!

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | April 30, 2010 11:18 PM | Report abuse

National Equirer, which has a history of getting its sex scandals right, is saying that Obama had an affair with a woman named Vera Baker - and they are looking to get the hotel video tape to prove it.

____________________________________

That is about the only thing Obama has done which is not impeachable.

.


Posted by: 37thand0street | April 30, 2010 11:15 PM | Report abuse

The Nation of Columbia in South America has now issued a travel advisory for Arizona, saying that those who are trafficing cocaine "MAY FACE RACIAL PROFILING" when caught with bails of blow.

The press release suggested avoiding all Arizona police officers.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 30, 2010 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Or were you guys responding to the Rick Perry video as a blooper?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | April 30, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

BB and shrink - I have regularly read, on a monthly basis, the hugely reduced numbers of IAs coming into TX.

I had assumed it was the recession. This article suggests that the recession has little to do with it - the recession has been worse in MX. That is worth pondering.

Further, the same law enforcement officials in AZ who will absolutely NOT enforce the new AZ law [Pima County and City of Tucson] also say that the relative closing of the TX and CA borders has made AZ the border of choice for IAs b/c the enforcement money was not spread to AZ.

I am trying to offer facts as I have read them.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | April 30, 2010 10:58 PM | Report abuse


Deputy shot near Stanfield found


April 30th, 2010

PHOENIX - After a frantic hour-long desert search, authorities found a deputy wounded in a shootout Friday with suspected illegal immigrants apparently hauling bales of marijuana along a major smuggling corridor in southern Arizona.

___________________________


Ouch all these stories are going to start coming out.

Let the illegal alien support groups explain it away.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 30, 2010 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Mark, you are not serious.

Posted by: shrink2 | April 30, 2010 10:41 PM | Report abuse

@Mark - Really?

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | April 30, 2010 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Lets just think about how little we knew, when we have the guts to look back with an eye toward looking forward.

"Mr. McCormack also raised the possibility that the leak was coming from outside the well casing, the larger pipe that is permanently installed in the well. The drilling crews were putting cement between the casing and the well hole when the accident occurred. Perhaps, Mr. McCormack said, the cement had not cured sufficiently when there was a burst of pressure."

Posted by: shrink2 | April 30, 2010 10:33 PM | Report abuse

For Brigade, Leichtman, and Chris F.:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/29/AR2010042903646.html

There is the probability that border enforcement has worked in SoCal and TX and NM better than in AZ b/c AZ did not get the bucks that especially TX and CA got, nor even what Bill Richardson was able to lobby for in NM.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | April 30, 2010 10:24 PM | Report abuse

It's about time people started calling for Obama to be impeached.


His blantant racist statements last weekend - he is simply not in the mindset of representing all Americans.

Obama passed the LARGEST TAX INCREAS IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

Obama is not enforcing the immigration laws - the situation at the border is even worse now.

Everything is Obama's fault, obviously.

.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 30, 2010 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Brigade


A few years ago the immigration issue came up - perhaps it was 2006 and the decision was made to "secure the border" and then have immigration reform.

They were supposed to build the fence and all.

I read that they stopped building the fence - and various high-tech solutions didn't work.

What I don't get is : How in the world can producing ID be that much of a big deal for people?


IN THE CONTEXT of a general lawless environment - there are 500,000 illegal aliens in Arizona.


The law must be enforced -

Perhaps if we increased the penalties too.

Maybe if we dropped off all the illegal aliens in Africa -

they would think twice about turning around and trying to go back to the US after they have been dropped off in Mexico.


What good does dropping them off in Mexico do? We should make it REALLY DIFFICULT for them to get back to the United States.

thank you.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 30, 2010 10:18 PM | Report abuse

CC wrote:

'What others am I missing?'

'macaca'

'bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran'

the cop videotape of Rick Perry ragging on a TX DPS officer that pulled the gov's car over for speeding

Posted by: mark_in_austin | April 30, 2010 10:18 PM | Report abuse


Shakira was just on - trying to tell us how to enforce our laws.


I know her hips don't lie.

However, perhaps she should go back to Columbia - and tell them how to enforce the law down there.


I do favor giving her a green card.

And only her.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 30, 2010 10:08 PM | Report abuse

It's not like Ped or finance whiz have anything interesting or intelligent to offer.

Posted by: Moonbat | April 30, 2010 10:07 PM | Report abuse

Brigade


You are usually correct - especially in your take on how the people of Arizona think.

I liked Shakira up there today.


I know here hips don't lie - however a chick from the nation of Columbia commenting on how WE should enforce our laws strikes me as a bit hilarious.

I think Shakira should go back to her own country, and state making statements there about how the Columbian authorities should enforce the law there.

yea, her hips don't lie - AND I do favor giving her a green card - but only her.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 30, 2010 10:06 PM | Report abuse

You keep using that word [racist]. I do not think it means what you think it means.

--Inigo Montoya

Truer words were never spoken.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | April 30, 2010 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Oh, sorry. I guess 37th is still around.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Oh sorry, 37th just dropped in.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 9:57 PM | Report abuse

Moonbat,
I think we're speaking to an empty house, sort of like those representatives on CSPAN, at two o'clock in the morning, preening for the camera.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Obama wasted valuable time when he should have reacted to the oil spill much much quicker.


It is pretty simple.


Obama spent much of the last two weeks TRUMPING UP FALSE PARTISAN CHARGES against the Republicans - instead of actually doing his job.

Obama has a problem with ... actually doing his job.

Anyway, here we go again with Obama trying to deflect criticism - but the reality of the situation is that Obama has ALREADY buggled this crisis MORE THAN BUSH MESSED UP KATRINA.

This is Obama's Katrina.

The democrats on this blog should just admit it, so we can go on.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 30, 2010 9:53 PM | Report abuse

Deep down this is simply obimbo shirking his promise to enforce the law. All his moves are political and intended toward socialism and spreading it around.

It is currently illegal to enter the country without permission. Liberals are only interested in open borders.

Why are liberals willing to sacrifice our lower end workers to racist and improper interlopers?

Are there any laws they don't like that they will enforce anyway.

Maybe start with poll intimidation.

Posted by: Moonbat | April 30, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Of course there is a silver lining. Republicans just shot themselves in the feet again.

Posted by: Noacoler | April 30, 2010 9:23 PM
------

There you go again. ---Ronald Reagan

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Leichtman1,
I don't live in Arizona, and I can understand the "butt out" attitude of people who have to live with this problem when all I do is pontificate.

My opinion is that the vast majority of illegals are hard-working people just here to make a dollar. If we want to stop the flow, then we make it a serious crime to hire illegals. The jobs will dry up and they'll go home. This isn't just a theory; it's been proven to work. You wouldn't have to do the same extensive background check on someone picking berries as you would for someone wanting to join the F.B.I., but c'mon---these contractors and labor camp foremen know who these people are and whether on not they're carrying fake documents. Let some ex-con try to get a job at a bank, sweeping it out or anything else, and see what kind of luck he has.

And there are no good logistics for rounding up the number of illegals in the country at this time, giving them due process, and then deporting them. It's silly. If the jobs dry up, then we'll have a much smaller pool of illegals with which to deal. We can focus on carjackings, kidnappings, drug-running, and murder.

If I came to Arizona today and looked out over the vast sea of illegal Hispanic faces, how in the world could I tell the 10% who are up to no-good from all the others? Do the 90% looking for work all look like Fernando Lamas? Do the drug runners and murderers all look like Manuel Noriega---or like a bandido from central casting?

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Problem is that "probable cause" has been expanded to include "appears Latino."

Let's not pretend that having the red lights come on behind you is scary. Any cop has full discretion to bring major grief into anyone's life, and this is going to lead to some people getting pulled over maybe even every day. That's going to feel intimidating, even if it is perfectly legal.

And yes getting shot reaching for ID is a possibility anytime those lights come on, but it's a much greater probability of the cop suspects a fugitive, which is the whole point of the ID demand in this case. When I get asked for my license (I was a redhead before I was a shave-head) it's to prove that it's current, not to prove I'm not a fugitive. An illegal immigration check is more dangerous.

Of course there is a silver lining. Republicans just shot themselves in the feet again.

Posted by: Noacoler | April 30, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

corporations have been equated with human entities for 100 years in corp law, no one questions that though I have alway thought that legal concept to be a bit strange. However a 1907 law banned corp contributions to federal candidates; the same law Tom DeLay is finally going to trial on.

incidentally brigade that officer that might have stopped you, asked for your DL and maybe insurance card not for your birth certificate or immigration papers. So Congressman Bilbray says he can tell if a driver is illegal by looking at his shoes.

Posted by: leichtman1 | April 30, 2010 9:20 PM | Report abuse

brigade I also addressed what I thought were the more impt polling numbers of hispanic,
independent and libertarian voters, which was not addressed by the single 61% number. So called moderates have elected 2 R US Senators in an otherwise D state, Maine. I will be curious to see if there is any movement in that group of voters in upcoming polls as a result of the Az fallout. Out of that 61% who approve of the bill, 80% of them describe themselves as conservatives. Their votes are a given regardless of this bill; if independents and hispanic voter numbers have moved back to the D fold in significant numbers that is a real problem for the GOP in Nov. To attack the polling outfit is nonsense; its how the questions were phrased and what is the political affiliation of those polled.

Posted by: leichtman1 | April 30, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler wrote,
"I'm getting a little sick and tired of your studied dishonesty, Brigade. It's annoying and it obfuscates discussion."

If you'd be a little more specific, then maybe I could give a better response.

"No, you didn't call it racial harassment, but you can bat your eyes all you like, doesn't change the fact that the people who get ID demands aren't going to be blonds and redheads, they're going to be dark-skinned people."

But that IS the point. You're saying anyone who supports this law is for racial harassment by default---even the legal Hispanic immigrants who support it, I suppose. You accuse me of being for racial harassment when I specifically said in another thread that I did not think this law represented the most effective
way to deal with the problem.

Blonds. Redheads. Dark-skinned people. Now this is a test. Give me a vague description of someone who might be the focus of the Arizona immigration bill. Hint: he's probably Mexican.
If you want to talk about people who are discriminated against trying to cross from Poland into Hungary, then we'll talk about blonds and redheads.

"And this isn't like writing a ticket for an unfastened seatbelt after pulling someone over for running a red light, cops can pull people over for no other reason than to demand ID."

Now this is where one of us is definitely mistaken. If that is what the law says, then you are correct and I apologize.

"It's racial harassment, pure and simple, because some ethnicities will be bothered and some won't. It's also creepy and un-American. "Your papers please!" is the pitchpipe tone in the great totalitarian singalong. The law stinks on ice."

The way I understand it, they won't be bothered unless there is probable cause to detain them for some lawful reason other than to check immigration status. When I get pulled over by a patrolman, he ALWAYS asks for identification. Federal and state law requires that immigrants carry identification as well.

"And, as I keep saying, it's only a matter of time, and little time at that, before a cop shoots someone while reaching for his ID."

What's your point? That's always a possibility, regardless of whether this law stands.

To hold that some rogue cop somewhere may violate someone's rights is no argument not to have laws.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 9:09 PM | Report abuse

Poor zouk. Can't get any respect no matter how stridently he demands it.

Posted by: Noacoler | April 30, 2010 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Are you the same clowns who said corporations aren't entitled to political speech. Some lawyer. Are all your clients inside?

Posted by: Moonbat | April 30, 2010 9:04 PM | Report abuse

actually zouk I am a lawyer and have spoken
with numerous immigration lawyers about the bill who all agree that this law will be struck down precisely like prop 187. I am not too interested in hearing legal opinions from unemployed photograhers or boat refinishers.

Posted by: leichtman1 | April 30, 2010 9:00 PM | Report abuse

I was challenging the theory that a policy which is favored by a significant majority of the electorate is somehow a political liability---and the idea that 61% of the American people can sanely be regarded as a lunatic fringe.

==

Let me make a wild guess.

That 61% came from a Rasmussen poll, right?

Posted by: Noacoler | April 30, 2010 8:49 PM | Report abuse

I was challenging the theory that a policy which is favored by a significant majority of the electorate is somehow a political liability---and the idea that 61% of the American people can sanely be regarded as a lunatic fringe.

==

Let me make a wild guess.

That 61% came from a Rasmussen poll, right?

Posted by: Noacoler | April 30, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Leichtman1 wrote,
"I've seen those polls brigade showing 61% approval but that number misses the larger considerations 1. Is it the right policy?"

I happen to agree with you. It is certainly reasonable to question whether this is the best way to deal with the problem of illegal immigration.

I was challenging the theory that a policy which is favored by a significant majority of the electorate is somehow a political liability---and the idea that 61% of the American people can sanely be regarded as a lunatic fringe.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

and that is the nut of the problem. It is vague, reasonable suspicion they are here illegally, not that an actual crime was committed. Congressman Bilbray from San Diego says look at their clothes look at their shoes to determine pc, that is insanity.
I doubt anyone would object to the federal standard of reasonable suspicion that a non immigration crime is suspected. As I stated before this bill smells UnAmerican. Ca prop
187 took Pete Wilson down in flames; this bill looks very similar to Ca's experience with immigration bashing.

Posted by: leichtman1 | April 30, 2010 8:42 PM | Report abuse

In fact this law was written to exactly mirror the fed law. Obviously these lawyers are better than finace whiz. A similar situation passed the ninth circuit several years back over employers hiring. This is almost identical.

It is already illegal to be here. You are already required to carry papers. The Feds are already required to provide the status when states inquire. There is no new ground here including Obama shirking his duties and playing the race card while being woefully misinformed about it.

Posted by: Moonbat | April 30, 2010 8:39 PM | Report abuse

I'm getting a little sick and tired of your studied dishonesty, Brigade. It's annoying and it obfuscates discussion.

No, you didn't call it racial harassment, but you can bat your eyes all you like, doesn't change the fact that the people who get ID demands aren't going to be blonds and redheads, they're going to be dark-skinned people. And this isn't like writing a ticket for an unfastened seatbelt after pulling someone over for running a red light, cops can pull people over for no other reason than to demand ID.

It's racial harassment, pure and simple, because some ethnicities will be bothered and some won't. It's also creepy and un-American. "Your papers please!" is the pitchpipe tone in the great totalitarian singalong. The law stinks on ice.

And, as I keep saying, it's only a matter of time, and little time at that, before a cop shoots someone while reaching for his ID.

Posted by: Noacoler | April 30, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse

"The fundamentals of the economy are strong"

Posted by: JRM2 | April 30, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

-----

Are you satirizing Republicans then or Democrats now? It's unclear.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Finance whiz. You are as bad a lawyer as you are in money. Did you read the bill? It's only 16 pages. It only allows people to be challenged who have already been pulled over. It requires the Feds to provide the status. It specifically prohibits racism.

When you libs make up things that are demonstatably false, you lose all credibility.

Like obamacare will save money. Hahaha.

Posted by: Moonbat | April 30, 2010 8:33 PM | Report abuse

The feral law requires PC of a crime being committed this does not and the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution trumps state action. This bill is toast and its likely Az Rs knew that when it passed in their state
legislature.

Posted by: leichtman1 | April 30, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse

-----

If you're right, I stand corrected. I understand the federal supremacy argument, but I was under the impression that the state law also required that you be stopped for some other legitimate (legal) reason before your immigration status could be called in question.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 8:29 PM | Report abuse

"Throne". Good Lord! I read some of the posts earlier today. If I have to start putting a quarter in a jar everytime I make a grammatical misstep or a typo, I'm probably going to require some sort of governmental assistance in short order.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 8:24 PM | Report abuse

The feral law requires PC of a crime being committed this does not and the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution trumps state action. This bill is toast and its likely Az Rs knew that when it passed in their state
legislature.

Posted by: leichtman1 | April 30, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Shrink2 wrote,
"I'll predict this to become the Chernobyl of offshore drilling. We heard its been 20 years since the last disaster in the Gulf."

You may be right, Shrink. It's an environmental disaster but a win for those who oppose offshore drilling.
If Obama hadn't throne Republicans a bone on offshore drilling a couple of weeks ago, he'd really been pounding this now.

As it is, I don't see much political hay on either side. But a definite boost for environmentalists.

It's scary that they can't shut this thing off. There was obviously no plan or means of containment by either BP or our bumbling government agencies. Containment of something like this would require swift action, not waiting until the slick covers an area the size of Australia.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 8:20 PM | Report abuse

I've seen those polls brigade showing 61% approval but that number misses the larger considerations 1. Is it the right policy? Likely a large % of American approved of segregation in the 1950s so does that mean that segregation was the correct policy?
2. Were those polled told that a crime or even pc of a crime other than being illegal is unneccessary for the stop?
3. After our country's bad experience with torture and abu graib is this the American way to do random stops and demand Where are Your Documents. It has an un American smell;
and finally from a political vantage 4. How is the law polling with 3 critical voting blocks-independents, libertarians and hispanics? Likely the approval numbers are just the opposite when you look at those voting blocks. So if Rs by this law are appealing to the JD Hayworth conservative wing of Az voters what does that mean nationally where moderates, independents, libertarians and hispanics are the crucial swing voters? My guess is that this will be viewed as another example of conservative R overreach in the minds of moderates and independents and I would not be surprised to see them moving back to D candidates in upcoming polling as a result.

Posted by: leichtman1 | April 30, 2010 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler wrote,
"Maybe I need to get out more. . ."

Maybe.

". . . but I don't think that outside the insular circles you run in there's much of a 'majority' favoring racial harassment."

I can't find the part where I said anything about anyone favoring racial harassment.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 8:13 PM | Report abuse

"The fundamentals of the economy are strong"

Posted by: JRM2 | April 30, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Comrade_Zero wrote,
"Passing a law that states a current law is in effect is not that big of a deal."

I'm trying to get a handle on the basis for these lawsuits. I can understand the federal vs. state argument about who gets to do immigration. What is less clear is how the state law itself can be unconstitutional unless federal immigration law, which, for all practical purposes, it virtually parrots, is also unconstitutional.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Conventioners all over America are cancelling plans for Arizona meetings, and you allude to some unnamed polls showing a "large majority of Americans" approve of KGB-like harassment?

Wow, I wonder which matters more. And which is closer to the truth. Tough one.

First you guys lost the educated classes, now you're kissing the Latino vote goodbye. Maybe I need to get out more but I don't think that outside the insular circles you run in there's much of a "majority" favoring racial harassment.

Posted by: Noacoler | April 30, 2010 8:07 PM | Report abuse

McDonnell is irrelevant, but he will keep on talking. I hope he thinks he got elected because people knew his agenda.

Posted by: shrink2 | April 30, 2010 8:06 PM | Report abuse

"The roaring sound you hear is Cillizza avoiding any mention of the most important news in politics since HCR, which he also avoided: the Draconian immigration law passed in Arizona.

"Since it can't be woven into 'national environment favoring Republicans,' it didn't happen."

Posted by: Noacoler | April 30, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

---------

I'm trying to weave your take on the immigration bill into the national narrative supported by virtually every poll I've seen to date: a large majority of Americans seem to actually support the Arizona bill.

Is this because the talking points telling us what to think and how to respond haven't yet arrived in the mail?

This is your cue, kreuz, to come in and provide us with information showing why these polls all suck and why we shouldn't pay any attention to them.

Posted by: Brigade | April 30, 2010 7:59 PM | Report abuse

McDonnell's timing could not have been any worse. Even those who still believe we need more drilling are likely saying let's just slow this down and make sure this environmental calamity is not repeated on Va Beach. If nothing else, he should be concerned what potential economic effects the oil leakage could have to his state.

Posted by: leichtman1 | April 30, 2010 7:56 PM | Report abuse

I'll predict this to become the Chernobyl of offshore drilling. We heard its been 20 years since the last disaster in the Gulf.

Its been a few months since the last time a burning rig leaked very badly, though nothing like this, Down Under.

Absolutely meaningless, if it were once every 100 years, or ever, that would not be ok.

And the whole Arabian/Persian Gulf, the Strait of Hormuz tanker problem...you know it is going to happen, it is a matter of when, not if.

We need an Apollo or even a Manhattan project approach to bio-engineered fuels. Now that would be change I could believe.

Posted by: shrink2 | April 30, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

McDonnell has made it clear what sort of politician he is. Far right, crazy, and most of all, defiant and looking for a fight wherever he can find one.

What did anyone expect from a graduate of Law School for Dummies?

But his defiance is just an expression of what some of us find most repellent of all about conservatism: it's indifference toward the natural world. Wildlife in the Gulf Coast is going to be hit hard this year, possibly even some extinctions, and you can bet your wedding ring that the conservative response to this is going be, "so?"

They'll gush and gurgle over human fetuses but even the loss of an entire ecosystem doesn't seem to matter to them.

That's why I call them subhuman.

Posted by: Noacoler | April 30, 2010 7:39 PM | Report abuse

its hard to believe that even today there are politicians pushing for expansion of offshore drilling before the investigation is even started of the defective blowout valve or the massive oil leakage is stopped.
How out of touch Governor McDonnell is, but many of us suspected that all along:

"Similarly, McDonnell said today that the "catastrophic event" off the Louisiana coast will not deter his plans to make Virginia the first state on the East Coast to begin drilling for oil and natural gas, the Washington Post reports"

Posted by: leichtman1 | April 30, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

"Is there literally nothing this man can say that will convince Republicans to disavow him?"

We'll see. I'm guessing no.

==

Any Republican who had any integrity is now a former Republican. Party identification has been dropping with each crazy lurch, like when Bush made torture the most important plank of the party platform. The ones who had any problem with bigotry are long gone, now all that remains are the true crazies, the ones who would only disavow Limbaugh if he said something reasonable.

Ten years ago I wouldn't make such blanket generalizations about Republican voters, but anyone still a member is too comfortable with too much ugliness and craziness.

Posted by: Noacoler | April 30, 2010 6:43 PM | Report abuse

The truth is that if someone is illegally in this country, the government and Obama should get up on the microphone and ask them to leave.

If someone is here legally, they should have no problem respecting the immigration laws of this country, and be willing to provide ID to the authorities.


It is pretty simple - if you want to be in America, you have some responsibility.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 30, 2010 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Passing a law that states a current law is in effect is not that big of a deal.

==

You might want to take this up with hoteliers in Arizona, they would disagree with your rather strongly about the importance of that little law.

"Gov." Brewer might have some misgivings to express next time she has to face the voters too.

==

"Liberals will try anything to avoid any responsibility toward border patrol. In fact, they prefer not to take action or responsibility for anything."

==

I'll have time to worry about your caricatures of liberals as soon as I can break my addiction to observing continental drift.

Posted by: Noacoler | April 30, 2010 6:08 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DDAWD | April 30, 2010 6:05 PM | Report abuse


Obama wasted valuable time in responding to the Oil Spill.


That is an unavoidable fact.

The damage is much much greater because Obama was preoccupied with creating false partisan attacks for the past 10 days.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 30, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

PEd, you and the other mindless liberals have overplayed the race card this year already. It is now in the boy who cried wolf category.

Passing a law that states a current law is in effect is not that big of a deal. Liberals will try anything to avoid any responsibility toward border patrol. In fact, they prefer not to take action or responsibility for anything.

berry is confused because the left teleprompter is loaded with oil spill excuses and the right teleprompter is loaded with immigration lies.

things they caused they'd rather not admit:

housing collapse
bank crisis
environmental tragedy
joblessness
massive spending
foreign weakness
budget busting
culture of corruption
lies, graft, deceit, broken promises

Posted by: Comrade_Zero | April 30, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Me from yesterday...

"Something for the conspiracy theory nuts to chew on. It's strange how we have been having these sort of flashpoint events in the proximity of legislative priorities.

As healthcare is being fought out, we have Anthem suddenly raising premiums.

As FinReg is being debated, we have the Goldman Sacs indictment. (not that we really need a flashpoint for this)

Next on the slate is immigration reform - right as Arizona passes this insane law.

Then up is climate change - right as we have this massive oil leak that could destroy maritime industry for Louisiana.

Posted by: DDAWD | April 30, 2010 12:52 AM"


Rush Limbaugh from today...

"I want to get back to the timing of the blowing up, the explosion out there in the Gulf of Mexico of this oil rig. ... Now, lest we forget, ladies and gentlemen, the carbon tax bill, cap and trade, that was scheduled to be announced on Earth Day. I remember that. And then it was postponed for a couple of days later after Earth Day, and then of course immigration has now moved in front of it. But this bill, the cap-and-trade bill, was strongly criticized by hardcore environmentalist wackos because it supposedly allowed more offshore drilling and nuclear plants, nuclear plant investment. So, since they're sending SWAT teams down there, folks, since they're sending SWAT teams to inspect the other rigs, what better way to head off more oil drilling, nuclear plants, than by blowing up a rig? I'm just noting the timing here."

I can take credit for calling this, right?

I am...Dawdadamus

But Ezra Klein said it best.

"Is there literally nothing this man can say that will convince Republicans to disavow him?"

We'll see. I'm guessing no.

Posted by: DDAWD | April 30, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: jaffe773 | April 30, 2010 5:34 PM | Report abuse

The roaring sound you hear is Cillizza avoiding any mention of the most important news in politics since HCR, which he also avoided: the Draconian immigration law passed in Arizona.

Since it can't be woven into "national environment favoring Republicans," it didn't happen.

Posted by: Noacoler | April 30, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Honestly, I can't think of a gaffe that comes close to what Brown said. That was REALLY bad.

Posted by: DDAWD | April 30, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Industry insiders say ~90 days to drill a relief well and a relief well has to happen or 200 million gallons flow to the surface before the pressure eases. This is hard to believe.

What a terrible price to pay for the end of the Drill baby drill! politician.

Posted by: shrink2 | April 30, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Maccacca

Posted by: Comrade_Zero | April 30, 2010 4:57 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company