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Morning Fix: Republicans Go After Democratic Base in N.J.



Republicans are going after New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine's Democratic base. Photo by Chris Hondros/Getty Image

National Republicans are going up with television and radio ads targeting two pillars of the Democratic base -- Hispanics and environmentally-minded voters -- in the New Jersey governor's race, a sign of their increasing confidence that they will beat Gov. Jon Corzine (D-N.J.) this fall and evidence of their effort to broaden the party heading into the 2010 midterm elections.

The environmental-themed television ad, which will run statewide on cable stations like MSNBC, CNN and HGTV, notes that "the Sierra Club says Jon Corzine has the worst environmental administration in New Jersey history" and goes through a laundry list of alleged Corzine misdeeds during his first four years in office from "weakening water quality standards" to "reductions in public open space."

The RGA will also sponsor radio ads targeted at New Jersey's Hispanic population, which come even as strategists of both parties ponder the potential damage done to the GOP by the "no" votes cast against Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor last week.

"Are things in New Jersey better or worse under Governor Jon Corzine's leadership?" asks the radio ad's narrator. "Most people in the Latino community say they're worse. In New Jersey, good jobs are hard to find. Jon Corzine told us his Wall Street experience would bring jobs, but unemployment is up ninety percent."

Mike Schrimpf, communications director for the RGA, said the messages of the new ad campaign are that "Jon Corzine has failed all the citizens of New Jersey" and that the RGA -- and former U.S. attorney Chris Christie (R) -- will go after every possible vote in this Democratic-leaning state.

Corzine spokeswoman Elisabeth Smith offered a different take. "As we've seen in recent weeks, the more New Jersey voters get to know Christie, the less they like him," said Smith. "No flashy advertising campaign can conceal a record like that."

A recent Quinnipiac University poll suggests that the RGA may find some fertile ground in their appeals to Democrats. Christie was winning nearly one in five (19 percent) Democratic votes in the survey while dominating among New Jersey's traditionally Democratic-leaning independents (64 percent to 28 percent).

The RGA would not release detailed expenditure information about their latest buy but the symbolism is clear: national Republicans view the New Jersey race as a chance to roll up a major victory in a blue state and, in doing so, send a message to party regulars and voters more broadly that GOP candidates can win even among traditionally Democratic groups.

As has been written about on the Fix and in any number of other places, demographic changes suggest that Republicans could be in the minority in Congress and out of the presidency for the foreseeable future if they cannot find ways to make inroads among Hispanics and other Democratic-leaning constituencies.

Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, the chairman of the RGA, said as much in a conference call with reporters Monday.

"When you lose and you rebuild from the bottom up, part of that should be make sure everybody who might be interested in being your coalition feels welcome and wants to participate," said Barbour.

Tuesday's Fix Picks: Day one of paternity leave in the books!

1. Health care debate heats up in southern Indiana.
2. Ross Douthat on "Funny People" and social conservatism.
3. Why California is a blue state.
4. Idaho House candidate gets help from the fathers of Sarah and Todd Palin.
5. Facebook's march toward world dominance continues.

DNC Bolsters President on Health Care: The Democratic National Committee is up with a new ad on national cable as well as in the trio of states -- New Hampshire, Montana and Colorado -- that President Obama will visit this week as he seeks to sell his health care plan to a skeptical American public. "On health insurance reform, what's in it for you," asks the ad's narrator -- echoing a statement Obama made at last month's prime time press conference. In case you missed the message at the start, the narrator ends the ad by urging viewers to call Congress and tell them "when it comes to health insurance reform there's something in it for all of us." Beset by falling poll numbers and a delay in passage of the health care bill, the White House is deploying all its weapons -- a series of town halls by Obama, ads reinforcing the message -- to try to restart the push for a bill. The central message? Everyone -- even those who love their insurance -- have a stake in reforming the system.

Schiff's Money Haul: While most political observers see former representative Rob Simmons (R) and former ambassador Tom Foley (R) as the two main players in the Connecticut Senate primary, economist Peter Schiff's recent fundraising haul suggests he may be more real as a candidate than people think. Schiff's campaign announced that he had raised more than $800,000 in less than a month of active cash-collecting including more than $329,000 since last Thursday. Those contributions are directly tied to a so-called "money bomb" -- an online fundraising effort pioneered by Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) during the 2008 presidential campaign in which donors are encouraged to give on a single day (or series of days) in a show of support. While Schiff's money total is impressive, the Paul comparison could also be instructive. Paul raised far more than anyone thought possible during his 2008 bid but never came close to winning a primary or caucus. The question for Schiff is whether he can translate online financial support into on-the-ground votes.

Elleithee to Deeds . . . : Mo Elleithee, a longtime Virginia political operative and member of the communications team for then Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's (D-N.Y.) 2008 presidential run, has signed on as senior adviser to the Virginia gubernatorial candidacy of state Sen. Creigh Deeds (D). "This is a race between moving forwards [versus] moving backwards," said Elleithee. "We're gonna have a lot of fun." Elleithee worked for former Democratic National Committee chairman Terry McAuliffe during the 2009 Democratic primary and has worked previously for Govs. Mark Warner (D-Va.) and Tim Kaine (D-Va.). He is expected to work hand in hand with Deeds communications director Mike Gehrke as Deeds seeks to make up ground against former state attorney general Bob McDonnell (R).

. . . And a New Hoya for Mo and Tali: In far more important news for Elleithee, he and his wife -- Tali Stein, who is the chief of staff at the Democratic Leadership Council -- are expecting! Mo, a Hoya like the Fix, has already begun singing the Georgetown fight song to the little one in the womb!

A Darkhorse for Florida Senate?: After we wrote our Fix piece handicapping the race for the Senate appointment in Florida, several knowledgeable GOP sources noted that former representative Clay Shaw is under consideration and could be a dark horse pick for Gov. Charlie Crist (R). Shaw held the swing 22nd district from 1980 to 2006 when he was ousted by Rep. Ron Klein (D). He has expressed interest in the interim appointment and some within Florida Republican circles believe it would be a fitting end to a long political career. One Republican source familiar with Crist's thinking insisted that the governor's list of appointees contains names that have not been released publicly.

Click It!: Former Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich (D) does his best Elvis Presley impersonation. And, no, we are not kidding.

Hynes Announces Consultant Team: Days after formally entering the primary fight against Gov. Pat Quinn (D-Ill.), state Comptroller Dan Hynes announced the consulting team that he hopes will get him over the top next year. The campaign will be managed by Michael Rendina, who most recently managed state Rep. Sara Feingenholtz's (D) unsuccessful campaign for the House seat vacated by White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel earlier this year. Saul Shorr (of Shorr Johnson & Magnus) will handle the media while Jef Pollock (of Global Strategy Group) will be Hynes' pollster. Jeff Link, former chief of staff to Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin (D), will serve as a senior strategist to Hynes' campaign.

Conservatives to Gather in Colorado: Prominent conservatives will descend on Steamboat Springs, Colo. later this month for an ideas summit modeled after the Aspen Institutes's yearly "Ideas Festival" in the Rocky Mountain State. Featured speakers include: Reps. Michelle Bachmann (Minn.) and Mike Pence (Ind.) as well as Michael Reagan, the son of former president Ronald Reagan, and Americans for Tax Reform president Grover Norquist. The gathering, which is scheduled for Aug. 28-29, is being sponsored by the Steamboat Institute, which was founded by Rick and Jennifer Schubert-Akin, local Colorado activists. Other members of the board include Gary Hofmeister who ran for Congress in Indiana in 1998 and Kirsten Fedewa, a consultant to former governor Mike Huckabee's (R-Ark.) 2008 presidential bid.

Say What?: "The Obamas took six months to pick a dog. Why do they have to pass this health care bill before August recess?" -- Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour (R), as only he can, raises questions about the White House's time line on health care reform legislation.

By Chris Cillizza  |  August 11, 2009; 6:29 AM ET
Categories:  Morning Fix  
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Next: NV-Sen: Heller Won't Run

Comments

This headline must be a joke. The American people proved in Minnesota that even a clown can beat the best republican with million dollar backing from the elite.

Posted by: SWAMPYPD | August 12, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Ali-Farooz is a terrorist.

Crowley was right to arrest Gates.

JakeD, I have enjoyed our many debates, and your principled, moderate stand.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 12, 2009 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Wow, Glen Beck actually said that Obama's agenda is based on his desire for reparations.

==

Now there's a guy who needs to have his mouth washed out with soap.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 12, 2009 12:52 AM | Report abuse

@drindl: yeah, and they're selling Iraqi oil back to the Iraqis. It's called colonialism, and it was supposed to be over. Like hell.

I wish Obama really was a Socialist, the real deal, not just someone unwilling to turn all our lives over to "the marketplace" .. I wish we had a president with the courage to nationalize the oil companies and set prices concomitant with actual costs, paying for the effects of burning fossil fuels on the climate. Someone ready to investigate the campaigns of lies and have the liars prosecuted.

Yeah, I'm dreaming.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 12, 2009 12:51 AM | Report abuse

Wow, Glen Beck actually said that Obama's agenda is based on his desire for reparations.

Who is left on the advertiser list now?

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

mikeinmidland:

I accept your offer.

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Oil, chrisfox. Undoubtedly. Five extraction companies were kicked out of Iraq by saddam, the point was to get them all there operating again, Exxon, of course, among them. They all have contracts there now. Some of them were British, explains their cooperation. They have been exploiting Iraq for oil since WWI.

And then there was the corporate employment 'stimulus' -- a federal works program for friends of the administration that spent billions - trillions -- on crony contracts. Start with Halliburton and there's a long trail of other neocons who got plush no-bid contracts -- with no accountability and no paper trail and millions missing. Airdrops of bales of US taxpayer $100 billls were common. You have two oilmen in charge of the country, you have Iraq, with the second largest unexplored oil reserves in the world, you have Peak Oil, you have Cheney, possibily one of the greediest men on earth.

One of the greatest transfers of taxpayer money to total crooks in the history of this country. A rape, and thousands of young americans died for it.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

@mikeinmidland: I think we'll know the real reason JFK was assassinated before we'll ever know the real reason for invading Iraq. It certainly wasn't that Iraq was a real threat; Cheney knew better than anyone that there were no weapons, otherwise why would he have had to manufacture evidence of them?

If we were told the real reasons they would probably turn out to be something so weird and brain-charred that our collective heads would explode.

Oil? Israel? Who knows?

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

thanks again for the info, joe, happy to oblige with more petition...

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

HuffPo is reporting on its front page the Glenn Beck boycott is working big time. GEICO just pulled its ads. Power to the People! Beck could go the way of Imus...
HuffPo (james Rucker) has all the information on how to contact the advertisers who have been rotated in to replace the ones who left.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-rucker/geico-pulls-its-ads-from_b_256724.html

Major shout out to James Rucker who provided the energy and vision for this...

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 11, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

As for Cheney, everybody knows that what torture is good for is producing false confessions.

Cheney wanted to go back into Iraq to "finish the job" and a connection between 9-11 and Saddam Hussein was a great excuse. So he tortured people until he got someone to say it.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 11, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

OK, Jake, I give in, I give in!

I'll say Ali-Farooz was a terrorist! I'll say Crowley was right to arrest Gates! I'll even pretend that you're a moderate and not an American Independent! Just don't encourage him...please?

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 11, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Really have to wonder where the cops are at these town halls. They have to be present, after all there are Congressional officials present .. if they're not at least telling the screamer to sit the hell down, they must have orders.

What an intriguing thought .. "give them the rope to hang themselves."

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 6:33 PM | Report abuse

"My a.m. post to "The Fix" has been submerged in a sea of blog-spam flotsam, directed disinfo and frat boy effluvia."

Heh, not the worst way to describe what's been going on here.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, asking you "How long will you remain 'hopeful' [your own word] before you turn on Obama?" is not the same thing as targeting you with "directed energy weapons" no matter what Art Bell says.

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

"Obama encountered none of the hostility that has erupted at similar events held by Democratic lawmakers in recent days. "

Those screamers are just bullies. They know if they try to pull on Obama what they pulled on Congressmen, they will be beaten to within an inch of their lives.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

scrivener50:

Those were honest questions (I have no cover).

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Okay, folks, apologize for being repetitive. Booooring. Guilty as charged. Hangs head in shame. Repents.

Now, what's this about war-profiteering and Cheney, Mark? Ears perk up.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

JakeD: With that 5:35 p.m. post, you have incontrovertibly blown your cover. Now even Chris Cillizza knows what you (and the rest of your merry paid disinfo trolls) are about.

Sometimes I think it's just you, me and your protagonists here. Could it be?

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 11, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Since I spent much of the day trying to get the apparent fusion center censors to allow a printer driver to install on my hijacked computer

==

Just put the CD that came with the printer into your computer CD drive.

Sheesh.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

scrivener50:

Perhaps you should try the Geek Squad (unless they are targeting you with "directed energy weapons" too, perhap hidden in their pocket protectors?).

How long will you remain "hopeful" before you turn on Obama? Four, or eight, years? What if I told you that I get my orders to post here PERSONALLY from him?

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

My a.m. post to "The Fix" has been submerged in a sea of blog-spam flotsam, directed disinfo and frat boy effluvia.

Since I spent much of the day trying to get the apparent fusion center censors to allow a printer driver to install on my hijacked computer (thus far, to no avail), I shall attempt to re-post, as they used to say in the biz, "once more for the West Coast."

***

Reason enough to give thumbs-down on Christie for NJ governor...

CHRIS CHRISTIE APPROVED WARRANTLESS CELLPHONE TRACKING OF NEW JERSEY CITIZENS: ACLU

• Warrantless covert GPS/cellphone tracking of unjustly targeted citizens is the electronic backbone of a nationwide, extrajudicial vigilante Gestapo that makes a mockery of the rule of law. When will President Obama issue an executive order banning it?

As U.S. attorney, Chris Christie approved the covert tracking via cellphones of so-called "targeted" citizens" without first obtaining a court warrant, according to the New Jersey office of the American Civil Liberties Union.

http://www.aclu-nj.org/news/njsfederallawenforcementus.htm

Covert GPS tracking, using cellphones and covertly implanted GPS beacons secreted in or on the vehicles of so-called "targets," is the telecommunications backbone of a Bush-Cheney- spawned extrajudicial targeting and punishment apparatus -- a nationwide Gestapo-like network that continues under a naive or misinformed Obama administration.

This extra-legal Gestapo is destroying lives and livelihoods of many thousands of unjustly targeted U.S. citizens by way of organized vigilante "community stalking" and an array of secret "programs of personal financial destruction."

Many of the civilian community stalkers are affiliated with federally funded volunteer community policing and anti-terrorism programs that target those considered to be political "dissidents" or "trouble-makers" -- what victims say amounts to an ideologically-driven campaign of "social cleansing."

Victims also allege that they are physically tortured with silent, injury- and illness-inducing microwave and laser radiation "directed energy weapons" deployed under programs administered by various federal agencies.

This weaponization of the electromagnetic spectrum has profound implications for society, because this silent technology makes possible the "perfect crime" -- the undetectable application of potentially deadly force.

Candidate Christie and the federal officials who have enabled tracking of American citizens should be held to account for a wholesale violation of constitutional rights.

For more:

http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america

OR (if link is corrupted / disabled):

See "GESTAPO USA" at http://NowPublic.com/scrivener ("stream" or "stories" list).

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 11, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

scrivener50:

How long will you remain "hopeful" before you turn on Obama? Four, or eight, years? What if I told you that I get my orders to post here PERSONALLY from him?

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Now they will have you believe that the same party is now a master organizer in protest over healthcare

==

Filling up some angry stupid people with lies doesn't take a lot of organization. The GOP has well-developed mastery at getting people to act against their own self-interest

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

JakeD @ 5:21 p.m.:

Sincere, or engaging in "desensitization"?

Either way, disturbing.

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 11, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Almost everyday since BO’s election the statists have come on this blog to indicate that a certain political party is dead and completely disorganized. Now they will have you believe that the same party is now a master organizer in protest over healthcare (I mean health insurance reform the statists changed the terminology today).

Posted by: leapin | August 11, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

"Why I know you disagree with waterboarding, the VP acted in good faith to protect and defend the US. "

I'm no lawyer, but I wonder how the hell those guys concluded that it was legally acceptable for waterboarding to be conducted. Seems like a pretty clear violation of international law. Is it based on simply the fact that they were called "detainees"?

If that's the crux of the legal argument, then that's flimsy enough that Cheney should at least stand trial and let the judicial system sort it out. Yeah, Cheney acted in good faith, but that doesn't mean he can do whatever the hell he wants.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Whew! I was on pins and needles the entire time. One town hall down for pResident Obama and no assassination, two more to go.

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Foxy's got a point there.

Posted by: jasperanselm | August 11, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Yes I would concur along with you Mark as far as know about civil/criminal law, government officials are protected as long as they acted in good faith

==

Cheney created his own commission to create fake intelligence to justify an invasion that did not need to take place. As a result, thousands of US soldiers have died, many rendered mindless, many maimed and injured, and hundreds of thousands or Iraqis have died.

How the HELL do you reconcile that with "good faith?!?"

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Yes I would concur along with you Mark as far as know about civil/criminal law, government officials are protected as long as they acted in good faith, are protected from lawsuits. But criminal conduct is not protected, but you would have to have a more black/white type of case(Bribery,extortion, etc)Why I know you disagree with waterboarding, the VP acted in good faith to protect and defend the US. From a political/civic point, it would do grave harm to this country if you tried to criminalize policy differences because of different reading of the law by different lawyers.

Posted by: vbhoomes | August 11, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

If I run through a stop sign, but don't get arrested, did I violate the law?

==

What do you think?

Are you trying to make a point here?

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

mikeinmidland:

If I run through a stop sign, but don't get arrested, did I violate the law?

DDAWD:

Nancy Pelosi hated the Code Pinksters for camping out front of her house, so?

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

'bout time for a pout about "name-calling," Jake, since your troll is falling apart

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Incidentally, it was a Democrat who ordered the Code Pink protesters to be removed.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

"WASHINGTON–An anti-war protester waved blood-coloured hands in U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's face at a congressional hearing yesterday and shouted "war criminal!" before being pushed away and detained by police."

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/270322

I say this is comparable to what has gone on at the town halls. And this definitely falls miles short of receiving death threats, which some of the Congressmen have received recently.

I don't think any of the shouters have been arrested at these town halls. Am I wrong about this?

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Ali-Farooz DID assault Rice (whether she was charged / arrested for that is not my point which, again, was that no town hall "screamers" have done anything approaching that).

==

Straw man.

Are you already confused? Nobody said the screamers assaulted anyone. I said (and should not need to repeat something so clearly self-evident but then we have a liar in the conversation) that the town hall screamers are suppressing free speech, not exercising it. They are not debating healthcare, they are suppressing the debate by yelling.

If you can't tell the difference between expressing an opinion and drowning out others with yelling, perhaps you belong in a less intellectually demanding forum.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

jakey's having a mental slip on this one. He just can't admit that he's wrong. How about tomorrow you take all your meds as prescribed? Thanks.

Posted by: jasperanselm | August 11, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Oh, come on now. At least with Gates, you were arguing that the arrest implies guilt. Now, not even that is necessary.

There have been anti-reform protesters at town halls who have yelled and waved signs. Ali-Farooz yelled and waved her hand. Red-painted or not, no more threatening than a sign.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 11, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

P.S. to chrisfox8: "never never" is a double negative ; )

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Ali-Farooz DID assault Rice (whether she was charged / arrested for that is not my point which, again, was that no town hall "screamers" have done anything approaching that). Anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Ali-Farooz did not assault Condi Rice. She was never charged with that. She waved a red-painted hand at Rice.

She was charged with assaulting a police officer, which would have happened during her arrest.

Thank God that in America, so far, there is still a difference between being charged with a crime and being convicted of it.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 11, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

bhoomes, I just spent my coffee break musing about Cheney. In the civil law, with which I am more familiar, Cheney can probably successfully claim "qualified immunity" for any official act. He already has done so in the Plaime case, I think. The policy behind qualified immunity is to shield government employees who make decisions that later turn out to have been unlawful if they were not clearly unlawful [or unconstitutional] at the time they were made. I think a federal prosecutor would respect those parameters in a criminal case as well. Of course this would not protect a government official who took a bribe, it only extends to official acts under the color of law.

But - let us take an example we might know something about. The JDept authorized specific harsh treatment. Qualified immunity will keep us from prosecuting persons who inflicted the prescribed harsh treatment. Those who went outside the memos are fair game. Suppose Rummy or Cheney ordered the disregard of the memos, which are problematic in themselves, as we know. I think they then become subject to prosecution. But I do not believe the death penalty could apply. Some prosecutors are inventive in ways I never imagined when I was one, of course.

International courts may not give comity recognition to a doctrine like qualified immunity, of course. But I believe Cheney will live out his natural life span, in the end, and as a free man, unless something comes up like war profiteering.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | August 11, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

The town hall "screamers" are exercising their free speech rights -- I have never "lied" in my posts

==

Kinda ironic to claim to have never lied in a sentence immediately following one

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Jake, if you were giving a speech and I stood up in the audience with a boat horn, drowning you out, would I be exercising my free speech rights?

Like I said, demented.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Pretty pathetic comments today, jakey. You must be lost now that zoukie is muzzled.

Posted by: jasperanselm | August 11, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

The town hall "screamers" are exercising their free speech rights -- I have never "lied" in my posts -- next canard?

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

P.S. the crime of "assault" is frequently confused with "battery" (actual contact being made) -- last I checked, nothing as serious as that has been alleged from healthcare forum protesters -- D.C. Code § 22-404 (a) provides that "[w]hoever unlawfully assaults, or threatens another in a menacing manner, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or be imprisoned not more than 180 days, or both." As charged
in the Ali-Fairooz case, simple assault consists of three elements: "1) an act on the part of the accused (which need not result in injury); (2) the apparent present ability to injure the victim at the time the act is committed; and (3) the intent to perform the act which constitutes the assault at the time the act is committed."

If anyone else has a question about any of that, please let me know.

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

That being said, I also support free speech, regardless of which side of the aisle it is shouted from.

==

Scant days ago you voiced your approval for the town hall screamers and their suppression of others' free speech rights. You were either lying then or you are lying now, since the two positions are irreconcilable.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

I am simply correcting the record re: the last time I recall violence from the political left in the USA was Code Pink

==

You excoriate Code Pink for hurting Rice's feelings yet refuse to condemn Scott Roeder for killing Dr. Tiller in church.

I'm sticking with "demented"

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

That's all you have for "left-wing violence"? Nice try, jakey but no cigar. That's not even close to an equivalent comparison.

Posted by: jasperanselm | August 11, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

I am simply correcting the record re: the last time I recall violence from the political left in the USA was Code Pink, TWO years ago, not 40. That being said, I also support free speech, regardless of which side of the aisle it is shouted from.

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

No one assaulted Condoleeza Rice. No one rushed at her with blood on their hands.

Ali-Farooz was charged with assaulting a police officer, with defacing government property (some of the paint on her hands got on the wall while she was being removed) and for disorderly conduct.

Although I disagree with her methods, I support her First Amendment Rights. I also think the Capitol Police acted properly in removing her and her 4 colleagues.

I can't find any reference to her being convicted of anything, but she was later "barred" from the Capitol. Perhaps Gates should be barred from his front porch?

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 11, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Well I am glad you just want Cheney executed by legal means chrisfox, I guess that makes you a moderate. Chrisfox your coming unglued if you really want to execute the former VPOTUS. Thats just crazy talk.

Posted by: vbhoomes | August 11, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Thank God that I am not like you.

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Well the difference between me and thee is that if someone were to track down and shoot Dick Cheney I would condemn the assassination and lend support for the assassin suffering the full weight of the law. I want Cheney tried and one hopes executed by legal means for his role in ginning up a war that has taken hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, but I don't want him dying in martyrdom at the hands of an assassin, much though I despise him.

We've all seen already how you would respond to an assassination, you did already re: Tiller. And there is the difference.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Of course there's a difference. No one has rushed pResident Obama with blood on her hands (yet).

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

She hurt Rice's feelings, didn't shoot her.

Do you really see no difference, Jake?

Keep it up. I'm continue to believe you're demented.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Excuse me, 10/24 (lest I be attacked as a "liar" yet again ; )

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Violence from the political left in the USA (10/27/07 Code Pinkster, Desiree Anita Ali-Fairooz, was arrested for assault) less than two years ago:

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN24604518

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSgXWAfH9ec

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

@m_i_a: Harrumph.

It's really a shame that the Second Amendment has led to such fanaticism. I confess an intense personal dislike of the arrogant side of the RKBA thing; I grew up in the South and saw those "cold dead fingers" bumperstickers every week. I don't mind admitting I loathe people like that.

But that's not all gun owners. People have guns for other reasons; some are hunters (which I don't like) and some are collectors, that being something I can relate to passionately (I collect fountain pens, and I can understand how someone could feel about Glock like I feel about Montegrappa). I've been to gun stores, and the appeal of that fine worksmanship is compelling. On the other hand, the nutcase behind the counter packing heat in a retail store and fingering his moustache is kind repellent.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

CF8, point taken.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | August 11, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

@GJonah: the technology of sniper rifles has improved too. Pardon me for not being too sanguine about this. It's not as though the right wing is principled about politics, after all they lie all the time and they seem proud of it. And after the killing of Dr. Tiller there was open rejoicing, and I didn't see any of our local GOP trolls taking a stand that the murder was wrong. On the contrary.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Hey mark, that's not fair. I didn't say anyone who owns a gun is a wannabe assassin. What I said is that the whole politics by assassination thing is very much a right-wing phenomenon.

The last time I recall violence from the political left in the USA was the Weathermen. Like 40 years ago.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Two points on violence:

1) Our country may have a history of assassination and assassination attempts, and there may be plenty of people out there crazy enough to make an attempt on the president's life -- any president -- but technology and security features have ramped up significantly since the most recent presidential assassination attempt, which itself was as far back as 1981. The assassins, though, are going to be from the same breed of crazies that have been making assassination attempts since our country was founded. Barring some sort of massive conspiracy, they're not even going to get close to President Obama.

2) drindl, I don't mean to single you out, but not all multiple murders are subject to warning signs on the Internets. We had a triple murder-suicide -- two of the victims young children -- a few months ago with no such warnings. Ditto the murder-suicide this week in which the killer calmly dialed police and explained that he'd just set two houses on fire and shot his girlfriend in the head. I know what point you were getting at, but you're overgeneralizing.

Posted by: GJonahJameson | August 11, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

I also fret for this Prez's safety more than I have fretted since the assassinations of the 60s were fresh for me.
------------------
In my Monday night men's group, five of us are gun owners and three are skeet shooters and two are hunters. Five of six.

Three of the five gun owners voted for BHO. Maybe four, one who was big for HRC may not have voted in the GE and is not talking. Two paid attention early to NRA stuff but decided it was hype.

One is a collector and may fit CF8's notion of a gun "nut". He voted for BHO.

I agree with MikeB that gun ownership in the west is normal and that there are millions of us who do not care to be characterized by our Remingtons.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | August 11, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I haven't seen the photo of the gun-totin' protester, but the pictures I've seen are of protesters lining the route, not waiting to get in to the town hall. I'm sure there were metal detectors for the event itself.

I would say that anyone planning to be within 500 yards of the president's motorcade must be pretty stupid to carry a gun. But if, as described, they were packing heat in a visible holster, concealed-carry laws do not apply. Which means the gun nut didn't even have to pass that test, whatever it is for that state.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 11, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

No, he can't, and neither could Bush. One may as well say that the absence of alien invasion from outer space "proves" that our aggressive interstellar posture has "kept us safe."

Before anyone can make such a claim there would need to be evidence that such an attack was planned and thwarted. Bush/Cheney made such claims but they were almost certainly lies. A couple of disgruntled people giving out big talk isn't quite the same thing as arresting guys with explosives getting on board a plane.

Extravagent boasting, nothing more.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

No terrorist attacks is a good yardstick to use. If after Obamas term in office and there is no terrorist attacks on US soil, then he to can credibly claim his policies kept us safe.

Posted by: vbhoomes | August 11, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Corzine is toast. Burnt toast. Smoke-detector-tripping burnt toast.

==

Thank you for the opportunity to plagiarize. Great stuff!

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Really, vbhoomes, "calm down?" It's not wild fantasizing to think there will be murder. Scott Roeder, Votzisname von Brunn, just in the past few weeks. Amped-up red-faced right-wingers packing heat in town halls? Something's going to happen. It's happened before.

Now, when I think of wild fantasizing and irrational expectations, the very first argument that comes to mind is "Bush kept us safe." There was one (1) attack on the USA, in no way part of a pattern or sequence, and those on your side are constantly crowing that the absence of a second one is solid evidence that Bush's unmotivated invasion of two Muslim countries, radicalizing a generation of Muslim youth and creating vast recruitment for AQ and the Taliban, in some way ended a long string of terrorist attacks.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Me calm down? You're the one imagining a "left wing" in America

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

drindl writes
"But whether he has credibility is the question...

' Today in a Times article online, we learn that “Republican Christie is silent on global warming and will cut environmental protection.

Christie has proposed cutting an already slimmed down DEP" "


That's the interesting angle. If Corzine responds by pointing out Christie's hypocrasy on the issue, the ads could backfire. A lot will depend on voter engagement. Could there be room for an ad campaign like "you might not like Gov Corzine, but can you trust Christie?"

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 11, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Calm down and take a sedative chrisfox and repeat to yourself "its going to be okay".

Posted by: vbhoomes | August 11, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Corzine is a Wall Street creep. Good riddance.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Tru dat, DDAWD.

Re-reading the article, as opposed to reason5's comment, I see that these ads are funded by the RGA, not Christie.

This makes sense, since they are carving out territory Christie isn't. Also as a way of testing out tactics to use in next year's campaigns.

Corzine is toast. Burnt toast. Smoke-detector-tripping burnt toast. The only thing this says about national democrats, however, is that perhaps Obama should look a little more closely at the candidate before endorsing.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 11, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

We all know what's going to happen.

There is a long history of assassination in this country; four presidents (Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Kennedy), and at least 90 known attempts. MLK and Bobby Kennedy were gunned down. Abortion doctors.

And make no mistake .. however much the compulsive relativists would like to say "everyone does it," the whole "gun thing" is overwhelmingly a right-wing phenomenon.

And now we have an enraged and pointedly irrational right wing awash in self-pity and paranoid fury, buying guns and ammunition like crazy, and now going armed to public meetings.

It's a matter of time until someone is shot. And if it's Obama, the country is going to explode in violence. I don't want that. I really hope the FBI is monitoring the Republican Party, as they seem to have become a terrorist organization.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

"Ddawd, I'm not a dude.

Second of all, every multiple murder that has occurred recently has been done by men who signaled their intentions on blogs. No one paid any attention, and a bunch of women, a group of cops, and a guard in the Holocaust museum are dead.

all I'm sayin is this guy has the same core beliefs as these shooters. Hatred of Obama, racism and misogyny. I'm just sayin'."

For me, "dude" is an expression of mild exasperation, not anything gender specific.

As for the rest of that stuff, you've said it all a hundred times before. It doesn't need to be repeated. I'm not saying this for the sake of civility. I'm saying this because I'm personally tired of scrolling through anti-jaked screeds. It's just mindless clutter that gets in the way of more substantive discussion. We all know he's a racist. Now if you want to alert the Secret Service, then go for it. Otherwise, let's just ignore him.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

But whether he has credibility is the question...

' Today in a Times article online, we learn that “Republican Christie is silent on global warming and will cut environmental protection.

Christie has proposed cutting an already slimmed down DEP"

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

"Ddawd, I'm not a dude."

I think he meant it as an honorific.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 11, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

"However, just because these two groups have significant overlap with the Democratic base, does not mean Christie is targeting the Democratic base. It is more correct to say that he is targeting environmentalists and Hispanics, of whatever political stripe.

Posted by: mikeinmidland"

Yeah, and if this is successful, then the national party might follow. If in five years, we have two major political parties who cater to environmentalists and two political parties that are inclusive of minorities, that can only be considered a good thing.

But I do consider it targeting the Democratic base. These groups aren't 100% D voters, but they are a lot more likely to pull that lever. And there's nothing wrong with going after these groups of people.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

"User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks" (which "delusional racist crap!" certainly is, whether it's true or not) are against the posted rules.

==

Go back to grade school, Jake, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

And "for the record," as you're so fond of saying, I see no operative difference between pointing out a lie and calling its writer a liar and I have no intention of refraining from either.

Don't like being called a liar? Stop lying.

Don't like being called a racist? Stop posting racism. When you call the President "Bam Bam" and compare him to a monkey with fist in jar, that's racism, which means you are a racist. You can quit lying and racism any time you want.

I'm not holding my breath.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Ddawd, I'm not a dude.

Second of all, every multiple murder that has occurred recently has been done by men who signaled their intentions on blogs. No one paid any attention, and a bunch of women, a group of cops, and a guard in the Holocaust museum are dead.

all I'm sayin is this guy has the same core beliefs as these shooters. Hatred of Obama, racism and misogyny. I'm just sayin'.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

No Drindl, Glen Beck is just an idiot. He's an absolute disgrace and how anybody could watch him, I don't know. But he's not a conservative, just a nutcase.

==

I don't see a lot of difference anymore

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

@JakeD - Zouk persists in using a vulgar term for another poster. That's what I find objectionable and I would agree with applying the rule across the board. I think ChrisFox8 stepped over that line when he made repeated references to Onanism in a recent thread. Zouk's use of Obambi, Drivel, etc. is childish, but doesn't go over the line.

If it could go out on basic cable, then it's fine by me.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 11, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

On Christie's tactics:

I agree that it is smart of him to target environmentalists, if Corzine's record is weak. It is also always a good idea to try to reach Spanish-speaking voters if they represent a significant percentage.

However, just because these two groups have significant overlap with the Democratic base, does not mean Christie is targeting the Democratic base. It is more correct to say that he is targeting environmentalists and Hispanics, of whatever political stripe.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 11, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

The quote is about watering the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots and tyrants, and you said you were not afraid of spilling your blood.

What did you mean then, and why did you reference that when you were talking about Louis Gates?

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

"with yuor history of racism, and your singlng out your own harassment of a black family coupled with this talk about blood, i'd say if the Secret Service isn't already monitoring you, they ought to. Perhaps they shold be notified.

Posted by: drindl "

Dude, every issue that comes up, jaked claims to have donated money, visited there, or recruited people to go there or vote or something. Do you REALLY think he's telling the truth?

Let's just stick to our policy of ignoring everything the guy says, ok? Jaked is now going to taunt you by agreeing with me and saying you can't control yourself, but let him say it and don't get mad.

Ok? I know he's a despicable racist, but he knows it and is proud of it, so calling him out on it isn't going to change it.

This board is a much better place when Jaked is ignored. And we don't need to wait for Chris C to issue warnings or anything. We can police ourselves and ignore him.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

drindl:

I am not going to kill Obama.

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

'Christie should kick Corzine while he's down,'

The violent imagery that threads through all rightwing commentary is telling.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

and what do you mean by that, joked? you are willing to sacrifice your blood to kill obama? that's the kind of comment that people who actually do violent stuff make on blogs just before they shoot someone.

with yuor history of racism, and your singlng out your own harassment of a black family coupled with this talk about blood, i'd say if the Secret Service isn't already monitoring you, they ought to. Perhaps they shold be notified.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

This is a very intelligent move by Christie to target traditional democratic votes. Christie knows that Republicans and Independents are voting for him. Why not target Democrats who are very untrusting of Corzine. Christie targeting the hispanic community as well as enviornmentalists could be an awesome deal for Christie to seal his victory with a larger margin. Corzine is down, Christie can't afford to just try to play defense and ride out to a win. Christie should kick Corzine while he's down, he's established the Republican base to vote for him, he has excited Independents to vote for him and now he's going after part of the Democratic base to vote for him. Great campaign Chris Christie!

Posted by: reason5 | August 11, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

I did probably break my rule with Street Corner.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | August 11, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Jake, we all remember that you dragged your wife and your friend from Boston over to Cambridge while you were visiting there.

To imply that you travelled to the area for the purpose of the protest is dishonest.

To suggest that you are willing to be arrested, or risk violence, when you would not even risk a parking ticket, is equally dishonest.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 11, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I completely agree with JakeD's 1:29P post. I have tried to live by that exact rule here for three years and if you catch me saying "the trouble with YOU is" instead of "I do not agree" call me on it.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | August 11, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

bhoomes, unfortunately, it's not one loon. It's legions of loons, and they are being whipped up by the republican leadership with lies about what this health care plan represents. Your party, unfortunately, is in thrall to the extreme right and is acting crazier and crazier.

The last time there was anything like this on the left was in the 60s.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD:

I am willing to sacrifice my own blood. I also protested in front of Prof. Gates's house a few weekends ago (and it cost me more than just the cost of the sign since I travelled from San Diego, CA ; )

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

That's the main problem with ad hominem personal attacks in civil debate; even if the person is literally wrong about everything else in the world, she could be right about this one, single point. Attacking her because she is wrong about everything else is a logical fallacy.

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

"Also important to note, the gun-toting protestor was holding a sign referencing the Jefferson quote: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." t in the context of these townhall excesses and while carrying a firearm at a presidential event, it's quite a menacing statement, in as much as it is about the need to kill tyrants.""

The funny thing is that "blood of patriots" is referring to the sign-holder (ie, sacrifice his life for liberty)

I have a feeling that guy isn't about to sacrifice any more than the few dollars it cost to make the sign.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

mibrooks27: That attitude toward purchasing guns and ammunition isn't only limited to individuals with strong opinions; it's also being used as a marketing tactic. I just heard a radio commercial in my city -- which is actually, when you put the central city and the suburbs together, pretty close to the middle politically -- advertising a gun show and admonishing listeners to "get (their) guns while (they) still can."

Posted by: GJonahJameson | August 11, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

REMINDER:

"User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks" (which "delusional racist crap!" certainly is, whether it's true or not) are against the posted rules.

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Drindl there are left wing extremist and right wing extremist, they do not represent the core of the democratic or republican party. To pick out some loon and then say they represent the democratic or republican position is just playing politics in my humble opinion.

Posted by: vbhoomes | August 11, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

"What Southern sheriffs arrested MLK for in the 60's is not relevant--his actual behavior was not disruptive."

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 11, 2009 12:50 PM

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

"I am not calling a name. I am stating a fact."

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 10:20 AM

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Disrupting the profits of a bus company or a lunch counter is not the same as disrupting a town hall meeting.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 11, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

"Trying to overflow the jails and drowning out opposing views is simply un-American." Eugene "Bull" Connor (re: "Project 'C' which stood for "confrontation").

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

chrisfox8 - The nutjobs aren't so much buying guns as they are buying ammunition. I shoot competition pistol and every store in the area is completely out of 9mm and 40 S&W because these paranoid fruitcakes buy everything on the shelf and horde it in their garage The price for a 250 round case has jumped from $37.50 to $80.00 in the last 6 months. It's gotten so bad I have to find out when ammo is delivered (Thursdays after 4 pm) and take off work early and get in line before the nuts get there. And, please note, this is all because some in the tinfoil hat brigades keep passing rumors around that the Dem's are going to get around the Second Amendment by restricting ammunition sales. I want it noted that these are the "birthers", the same loud mouths that interrupt town hall meetings, "Limbaugh's Legion of Lemmings". Just another reason to hate conservatives.

Posted by: mibrooks27 | August 11, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

never said such a thing, joked, you just made it up.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

mikeinmidland:

I would suggest that you read an actual history book about Rev. King's organized plan of disruption and (for the most part) non-violent resistance. Or, maybe GJonahJameson can help you.

drindl:

I thought you said that "name-calling is fine if it's true"?

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Another protestor at the Obama meeting today carrying a sign:

"It is time to water the tree of liberty"

and you know the rest of the quote is 'with the blood of patriots and tyrants' -- so that's a direct call for asassination, isn't it? How far will these nutcases go, is the question. I guess we will find out.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

In addition, it's worth nothing that, regardless of whether one would consider Martin Luther King Jr.'s actions to be disruptive or merely dissenting, there can't be much doubt that mere dissent on his part would have been enough to get him arrested in those days.

Posted by: GJonahJameson | August 11, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

"I'd certainly agree she should have worded her comment better. This certainly isn't the first time she's said something she should have thought about more before she said it."

Well, this is her wording.

"Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American."

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/unamerican-attacks-cant-derail-health-care-debate-.html


Yeah, I agree with this 100% Vbhoomes' characterization of that sentence is just plain wrong. If he knew the quote and he still posted what he posted, then he lied. Straight up lied. I make no apology for saying so. I think I'll still be able to sleep at night.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Or what about this, bhoomes, a man at the Obama event today, carrying a gun today and i sign talking about killing tyrants? How American is that? Insanity has taken over the far Right. Violent insanity.
"
MSNBC just aired footage of the crowd gathering at the Obama town hall meeting on health care that's supposed to start later today in New Hampshire and pointed out one man in a group holding protest signs with a gun in a holster on his hip. Apparently not a law officer, but a civilian.

Whatever the concealed carry laws in New Hampshire, you have to figure guns not allowed at a presidential event. Right?

Late Update: Also important to note, the gun-toting protestor was holding a sign referencing the Jefferson quote: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." t in the context of these townhall excesses and while carrying a firearm at a presidential event, it's quite a menacing statement, in as much as it is about the need to kill tyrants."

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

JakeD: I'd not somehow imply that disruption has never been an effective tool for bringing about important change in the U.S. -- I'm just saying the general objection to the town hall disruptors seems to be that they're derailing the conversation rather than that they'd dare to oppose a public health care option. Another argument I've heard is that the disruptors have come ill-prepared to actually debate the issues; "Get your government hands off my Medicare" is a line that's been bandied about as an example.

Still, I think one could point out a few differences between the injustices against which Martin Luther King Jr. fought and the injustices these town hall protesters are fighting. A large part of King's motivation for disruption and nonviolent resistance was that he felt that he -- and black people in America as a whole -- had no other way to be heard. By contrast, the town hall meetings being disrupted were specifically set up to allow people to be heard. Though given the Democratic control of Congress and the presidency, I can see how some conservatives would come to believe that their comments at the town hall meetings would not truly be "heard."

Posted by: GJonahJameson | August 11, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

What about the people who painted a 4 foot swastika on the door of the black congressman yesterday, bhoomes? How 'american' is that?

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

kingofzouk was not simply name-calling, he was engaging in very personal lewd and crude homophobic, racist and sexist harrassment. and you know it joked, so stop pretending anyone else is doing anything close to that.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

"DDAWD, you can take issue with my posting without resorting to tactics that in the end, hurt yourself. But seems to me Nancy Pelosi was way out of line to call citizens who are venting their angnst as un-american."

The thing is Pelosi said no such thing.

I guess we can debate on whether or not you know this. My assumption was that you are not misinformed, but wittingly trying to spread a falsehood. If you honestly didn't know that Pelosi never said this, then I apologize for calling you a liar.

But in any case, you know now, so I expect a similar apology for your original statement. Perhaps you weren't lying, but you were spreading a falsehood and that should be rectified.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

When GWB had "town hall" meetings in 2004, the guests were all supporters, and even then the questions were pre-screened. Dissent was kept outside, sometimes miles away. I recall a man was arrested for wearing an anti-Bush t-shirt.

What Southern sheriffs arrested MLK for in the 60's is not relevant--his actual behavior was not disruptive.

Dissent, even boisterous dissent, is protected speech. Violence is not speech.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 11, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

GJonahJameson:

Did Martin Luther King, Jr. get arrested for dissent or disruption?

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade:

I agree -- and I am glad that Mr. Cillizza is cracking down, even though he's having to do so during his paternity leave -- if "king_of_zouk" gets banned, though, the rules should be enforced across the board.

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD: I'm aware that most sitting governors -- and a great many sitting elected officials, for that matter, all the way down to school boards and city councils -- are experiencing some unpleasantness right now thanks to the economy. But I'm still not sure bringing up the economy is going to be an effective way to attack Jon Corzine, and it'll certainly be easy for him to deflect. "Yeah, well, the Republicans can attack me on unemployment, but we know it's all their fault to begin with etc. etc. etc."

vbhoomes: I believe the point that many are trying to make about the town hall disruptors is that they're not so much "venting their angst" as taking up a cause being fed to them by pot-stirring groups organized or at least supported by prominent Republicans. The argument would go that these people might actually contribute to the discussion rather than disrupt it were they not being specifically told to disrupt rather than contribute. I can't read Nancy Pelosi's mind and I can't tell you what the intention was behind her words, but the general point would seem to be that dissent and disruption are not one and the same and that the problem is the latter, not the former.

I'd certainly agree she should have worded her comment better. This certainly isn't the first time she's said something she should have thought about more before she said it.

Posted by: GJonahJameson | August 11, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD:

Do you define "civil" as "ugly and creepy, Republican lala land, completely deranged, childish, nutbars, delusional, lying, wild-eyed, shrieking, and pounding mobs with their swastikas, zero credibility, abolish black helicopters, abolish taxes, discuss experiences aboard spaceships, racists"? Or, only if the right-wing resorts to such name-calling?

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

@vbhoomes - I entirely agree with your comment. I also recognize that one is often responding rapidly and so it isn't always practical to hunt around for it. As it happened today, I heard the comment referenced on C-SPAN this morning, so I knew you got the word right. The context didn't sound right, so I did a little hunting around (it's on the main page of Politico).

I tend to post less than other regulars around here, mainly as I try to source my opinions. And I've *still* posted some factually wrong things (even when correcting others, which is particularly embarrassing).

All too often around here, epithets are thrown around carelessly by both sides. I don't see how calling someone a liar adds anything. It rather reminds me of some of the behavior of the townhallers who are being vilified in the first place.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 11, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I don't know what to make of the ads for latino voters, but those attack ads on the environment don't look like a ploy for any sort of lasting political brand. Might work for a single election though.

Posted by: theamazingjex | August 11, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

But he calls himself, one, bhoomes. And he has thousands of followers who think he's one. That's part of the R party's problem right now, being associated with crazies. It doesn't help that so many of in the leadership cozy up to Beck, and others like him.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

"As has been written about on the Fix and in any number of other places, demographic changes suggest that Republicans could be in the minority in Congress and out of the presidency for the foreseeable future if they cannot find ways to make inroads among Hispanics and other Democratic-leaning constituencies."
_____

Yes indeed. To judge by comments regarding the immigration issue here at dear WaPo, I don't see Republicans making inroads with Hispanics anytime soon. Too many of the GOP party faithful simply cannot keep from expressing themselves in Limbaugh fashion.

Pres. Obama has cleverly raised the stakes by restarting the immigration debate before the 2010 elections.

Posted by: Kelly14 | August 11, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

No Drindl, Glen Beck is just an idiot. He's an absolute disgrace and how anybody could watch him, I don't know. But he's not a conservative, just a nutcase.

Posted by: vbhoomes | August 11, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

We got a new coinage, folks, for those politicos who are spreading the disgusting lie that Obamacare is about euthanasia.

"Deather, defined

Main entry: deather
Function: noun
Etymology: From birther, a related conspiracy theory which holds that President Obama is not a natural born U.S. citizen. Inspired by the teabaggers of April 15, 2009.
Date: Mid-2009
Definition: One who believes or spreads the false conspiracy theory that the health care reform legislation before Congress would create "death panels" or force seniors and sick people into euthanasia.
Examples: Sarah Palin is a deather. Glenn Beck is a deather. Rush Limbaugh is a deather."

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Fair point FairlingtonBlade and you made it without calling me a liar, which was the point I was trying to make with DDAWD, you can take issue with my posting without resorting to tactics that in the end, hurt yourself. But seems to me Nancy Pelosi was way out of line to call citizens who are venting their angnst as un-american. That is what this country was founded on and it is not unamerican to dissent. People will simply view Pelosi's statements as calling people un-american who disagree with her. Context not withstanding. Its bad politics, that's why Obama quickly distanced himself. Pelosi is doing more for the GOP to regain power than we ever could do on our own. You Go Girl.

Posted by: vbhoomes | August 11, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

there's nothing wrong with boisterous disagreement. but that's different from purposely shutting down debate, or painting swastikas on black congressman's office doors.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

I didn't hear the context, but was listening to C-SPAN this morning and Pelosi did use the word un-American in writing. Here's the quote: “Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American." Obama has disassociated himself from this viewpoint, noting that boisterous disagreement has a long history in American politics.

@Vbhoomes - You did, however, misrepresent the quote. It was not disagreement, but rather the behavior at the meetings wherein those with opposing views are shouted down. If you're going accuse others of name calling, you should be sure you get your facts right. It would have taken you 15 seconds to find the exact quote. Instead, you took the easy way out and trashed a straw (wo)man.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 11, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

About time you get out of bed chrisfox, DDAWD, I am not offended just thought it somewhat perverse to call for civil discussion after calling people liars who see the world from a different lense & perspective. I am happy to maintain the moral high ground because I would never call you or drindl or chrisfox liars because you see facts different than others may.

Posted by: vbhoomes | August 11, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

"MSNBC just aired footage of the crowd gathering at the Obama town hall meeting on health care that's supposed to start later today in New Hampshire and pointed out one man in a group holding protest signs with a gun in a holster on his hip. Apparently not a law officer, but a civilian.

Whatever the concealed carry laws in New Hampshire, you have to figure guns not allowed at a presidential event. Right?"

Anyone know what the story is about guns at political events in NH?

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Gettng ugly and creepy out there in republican lala land.

==

Here's the take-away: the right knows they've lost. And it's made them completely deranged.

We knew that a black president would make them mad and disgruntled but we never suspected, at least I didn't, that they would go completely spla in such large numbers. We have something like 60% of Republicans believing JakeD's childish conspiracy about Obama's birthplace, we have nutbars buying guns by the truckload, the usual abortion doctor killings, and now pure shrieking paranoia.

And my God, the lies, the endless lies.

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I don't see how no-bid contracts to your friends and relatives can be seen as anything other than suspicious, ddawd.

As far as the brother story goes, it's much more than I've detailed here. You have to look deep into the activities of Christie and his brother, what they were up to with the Bush administration and how enmeshed in its questionable activities, to get to the bottom of it.

There's a reason Christie doesn't want to talk about his close ties with the Bushes, and Corzine ought to start hammering him on it.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

DDAWD calls me a liar and then talks about keeping things civil. Its getting deep out their in liberal land. When dems are reduced to just calling people names, its evident they have lost the debate.

==

There is no debate. We have reality on our side, you guys have to lie and lie and lie

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Drindl, the Ashcroft connection is a lot better than the Goldman-Sachs connection. The second one is just loose associations.

I wonder if there's any justification for no-bid contracts? Is this practice EVER not a result of cronyism?

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Republicans will offer Latinos a seat at the table...
dems have yet to offer that...

==

I call troll

Posted by: chrisfox8 | August 11, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Gettng ugly and creepy out there in republican lala land.

"Rep. David Scott (D-GA) told Fox News that his district office in Smyrna, Georgia, was vandalized with a four-foot swastika.

"We woke up this morning and my staff called me and said there was a swastika, a Nazi sign, painted on the sign," said Scott. "Which of course is very unfortunate, and I just feel very bad about it -- and really feel bad about the person who did it."

Scott -- who pointed out that he is the only House member to belong to the Blue Dogs, the New Democrats and the Congressional Black Caucus -- had a widely-viewed tumultuous town hall meeting late last week."

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

"DDAWD calls me a liar and then talks about keeping things civil. Its getting deep out their in liberal land. When dems are reduced to just calling people names, its evident they have lost the debate.

Posted by: vbhoomes"

Well, jeeeeez. If you want me to stop calling you a liar, there's something you kind of need to stop doing...

But yeah, you know damn well that you were lying in that Pelosi comment, so don't feign indignation.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

I want Paterson to lose. Most Dems do -- to Cuomo. And Cuomo will win. You obviously know nothing about NY. The R party is disjointed and demoralzed. They will not take a single seat and will be lucky if they hold onto what they've got.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

I just saw a belly going for books. A real American beauty. Bellybook and belly up to the bar. I keep getting older and the women keep getting younger. I feel like I'm in some kind of conspiracy. Last month it was a frustrated conspiracy. Kisska and now we have all your guns. 8-16-43 and amphibious warfare. Fog makes good cover.

Posted by: Dermitt | August 11, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Not at all, Ddawd. Christie is just another Bush crony capitalist.

"In the fall of 2007, Christie awarded the Ashcroft Group LLC, a lobbying and consulting firm formed and headed by John Ashcroft, with a no-bid government contract. Ashcroft’s firm was paid between $28 million and more than $52 million for 18 months’ work.

The firms of former U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft, Christie’s former boss; attorney John Inglesino, a friend, adviser and campaign donor; and former U.S. Attorney David Kelley, a former colleague, all received lucrative government contracts during Christie’s tenure as U.S. attorney from 2002 to 2008.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

I guess I was watching a different Specter town hall meeting Milbrooks because I thought Arlen came across as old and confused. Drindl give up on NJ, that race is already over, you may want to focus on NY, your home state, as it looks like Patterson will not only lose big next year but will take down Killibrand and a bunch of congressional dems with him.

Posted by: vbhoomes | August 11, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Forgive my hijacking the thread, but I have been watching Arlan Spector's town hall meeting on health care on television this morning. Wow! This guy is good. Every Democrat needs to pay attention to how he handles the meetings and listens. In the space on one hour, he managed to pull clarify the genuine objections (some of which were really good) from the blathering ginned up mobs (which he made look like fools).

Back to New Jersey. Out West we tend to think of all New Jersey politician' s as being crooks, gangsters, and flakes. Of course, we think that is true of Connecticut, New York, and South Carolina, too. Everything we read in the newspaper makes it appear as if the entire East Coast is a real world Dilbert Ebonia.

Posted by: mibrooks27 | August 11, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Maybe the Dems ought to be pointing out Christie's connections to John Ashcroft, too, among the other dozens of skeletons rattling around in his closet:

Christie granted a monitoring contract worth upwards of $50 million to John Ashcroft, the former U.S. attorney general. The New York Times:

He also found himself on the defensive over newly released e-mail messages indicating that he refused to intervene on behalf of a company that had objected to the high fees Mr. Ashcroft’s firm was charging, including $750,000 a month solely to pay Mr. Ashcroft and two other executives."

You want corruption and using taxpayer's money for crony contractor schemes? Christie's your man.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

It's kind of a convoluted way to go after Christie, drindl, don't you think? If that's the best way to tie him to Wall St., that's not very much at all.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

The more you look into Christie's recent past and close ties with the bush administration, the worse he looks:

"With Christie on the defensive, the Asbury Park Press isn’t really buying the so-called "explanation" by Christie over his deferred prosecution agreements:

Republican gubernatorial candidate Chris Christie's defense this week of his handing out a multimillion-dollar, no-bid contract to a former federal prosecutor who let Christie's brother off on stock fraud charges was unconvincing. He needs to do better.

If Christie wants to keep the issue from haunting him throughout the campaign, he must provide a full explanation of the selection process. As former Republican state Sen. Dick LaRossa said, the citizens "need full and open disclosure as to the process and criteria used by Mr. Christie to select Mr. Kelley, if only to put our minds at ease."

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

DDAWD calls me a liar and then talks about keeping things civil. Its getting deep out their in liberal land. When dems are reduced to just calling people names, its evident they have lost the debate.

Posted by: vbhoomes | August 11, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

"How someone could take an end of life directive or a living will as that is nuts. You're putting the authority in the individual rather than the government. I don't know how that got so mixed up."

Heh, to say it got "misxed up" is very diplomatic of him. I guess we can't call Queen Palin a liar, now, can we?

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Sorry for the length of this but I thought it important information rgarding this race:

"Chris Christie has a number of issues that will emerge from his closet during both this primary and the general election should he make it that far. One of them will be a situation involving his brother Todd Christie.

Todd Christie was the president of the Wall Street trading firm, Spear, Leeds & Kellogg. While Chris Christie was starting to make noise about running for Governor, the contributions from Todd Christie to various Republican causes went from a few thousand to over $400,000.00.

This amount of money was spread around on a large scale. He not only opened his own checkbook, according to newspaper articles he teamed up with his brother’s current campaign spokesman, Bill Palatucci, and current campaign fundraiser, Jon Hanson, to raise money for the George W. Bush’s campaign. Together, the three were after Bush’s “Super Ranger” status.

How did Todd Christie afford this political largesse? That’s easy; there are news reports about how he sold his firm for $100 million to Goldman Sachs. Yes, that Goldman Sachs – same as Jon Corzine. Remember that next time Chris Christie condemns Wall Street.

[long story, but worth it --ends this way}


As it related to Todd Christie, 3 people above him and the 11 below him were all indicted. What is amazing to note is that one of the indictments was for someone who profited to the tune of $14,000.00 while Todd Christie, who profited to the tune of $1,590,000.00 was never indicted. In fact, perhaps the most amazing thing of all was that Todd Christie was #4 on the list of the top 15 and yet he was the only one of the top 15 not to be indicted. According to the SEC, Todd Christie committed more that 1,600 improper trades. So he gets off. There's a lot more of this story.

It includes the multi-million, no bid federal monitoring contract that Chris Christie gave to David Kelly, the prosecutor who didn’t indict Todd Christie a short time before. There are appearances made by Chris Christie’s mentor Herbert Stern and Chris Christie’s boss, former US Attorney John Ashcroft. "

http://www.politickernj.com/humorme/28755/chris-christies-closet

Will it all come out?

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Not sure if Chris C is reading this, but thank you for the Zouk warning on the previous entry. It's really kept things a lot more civil so far.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

The Fix mentioned the Palin's parents' political contributions, but failed to note this little blurb in which Sen Isakson (R-GA) points out that it is NUTS to think that there's a 'euthanasia' provision in any of the healthcare bills being floated in Congress. Of course, that is exactly what the often-confused former governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin, said on her Facebook page recently.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/08/is_the_government_going_to_eut.html#more

"[WaPost:] How did this become a question of euthanasia?

[Sen Isakson:] I have no idea. I understand -- and you have to check this out -- I just had a phone call where someone said Sarah Palin's web site had talked about the House bill having death panels on it where people would be euthanized. How someone could take an end of life directive or a living will as that is nuts. You're putting the authority in the individual rather than the government. I don't know how that got so mixed up."

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 11, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

The right only believes in one race, guess what that is?
I have to smile when I read and article that their concerned about any other race, except when we have and election. Then we are all friends. mm mm

Posted by: shipfreakbo214 | August 11, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

JakeD writes
"it seems as if the GOP will get the NJ Latino vote this time around"

That's the kind of political insight and analysis that keeps drawing me back to The Fix. Its not the original post, which The Fix left short, merely saying the "RGA will also sponsor radio ads targeted at New Jersey's Hispanic population," but leaving us wondering whether such ads would be effective. In swoops JakeD, with another his unique brand of political observation and perspective, to conclude that the ads will, in fact, deliver the latino vote in NJ for the GOP. Wow. How do you do it?

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 11, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

"but I'm pretty confident that New Jersey voters are aware high unemployment isn't exactly a problem limited to their state"

Most governors are experiencing pretty bad poll numbers now, especially those in larger states.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Another great JokeD prediction -- right up there with Rep. Cao winning reelection.

The Dems must be quaking in their boots when they see the prognostications of our own Nostradamus.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | August 11, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Alaskans apparently happy Li'l Sarah has taken her ball and gone home:

"The Alaska legislature voted yesterday to “override former Gov. Sarah Palin’s veto of $28 million in federal stimulus money for energy cost relief. … Reversing a governor’s appropriation veto requires a vote of 75 percent of the Legislature, a hurdle rarely met. The override passed 45 to 14.”

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

If you guys want to see Fabio and Blago on the same stage, then click on the Blago link. Word is that they are coming out with a new line of hair care products.

Also a nice shot of a woman saying "WTF?" (the actual words) Maybe she's mouthing it. You can't hear her.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Not that it's looking like anything will save Jon Corzine at this point -- save maybe a large-scale collapse on the part of Chris Christie -- but I have to wonder whether attacking Corzine on the state's unemployment rate is really a wise move. Call me optimistic, but I'm pretty confident that New Jersey voters are aware high unemployment isn't exactly a problem limited to their state, and if blame is to be batted around for that one, they're just as -- if not more -- apt to pin it on George W. Bush than Corzine.

Posted by: GJonahJameson | August 11, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

I am not calling a name. I am stating a fact.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

drindl:

Careful with the name-calling.

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

"I prefer that Hispanics who actually pay their taxes and are legal citizens, but that's just me"

And I assume that you prefer minorities to know their place....

Posted by: RickJ | August 11, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

No, RickJ, that is a "bench"

Sorry, but a seat or bench at the Supreme Court counts as a place at the table...

Posted by: RickJ | August 11, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

"it seems as if the GOP will get the NJ Latino vote this time around"

You're delusional. Not a chance.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Regarding Barbour's comments - maybe that's why MS ranking is always near the bottom.

Posted by: rlj1 | August 11, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

scrivener50:

How long will you remain "hopeful" before you turn on Obama? Four, or eight, years? What if I told you that I get my orders to post here PERSONALLY from him?

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

"The dems are simply making this to easy for us, what with Nancy Pelosi calling voters un-american if they should dare to disagree with her"

You do realize that pretty much everyone on this board knows that you are lying, right?

Posted by: DDAWD | August 11, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

TO: "visionbrkr" @ 9:24 a.m., RE: Feb web site "cookie" tracking


Didn't I say in my commentary below that Team Obama is perhaps naive or misinformed?

Let me add that I am increasingly concerned about the extent to which President Obama appears to be controlled and manipulated by the so-called shadow government, perhaps by way of little-understood high-tech techniques and methods.

This government web site "cookie" issue is but one example that fits a disturbing pattern.

I wrote about this issue a few months ago; but I remain hopeful that President Obama will wake up and smell the police state that poses a clear and present danger to his administration, and to American democracy:

http://nowpublic.com/world/shadow-government-shackles-obama-torture


Posted by: scrivener50 | August 11, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Back on topic, it seems as if the GOP will get the NJ Latino vote this time around -- whether you like it or not -- better luck next time.

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

"I prefer that Hispanics who actually pay their taxes and are legal citizens, but that's just me "

Yes, Joked's party is really extending a hand to Hispanics -- the back of it, that is. No wonder they stay away from the R party in droves, and no doubt will do so in this election too.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

No, RickJ, that is a "bench". A "seat at the table" includes Attorney General, for instance, in the Cabinet Room (admittedly, pResident Obama tried to offer a "seat" to Bill Richardson -- you remember he was one of the many Cabinet nominees who had to drop out -- I prefer that Hispanics who actually pay their taxes and are legal citizens, but that's just me ; )

Posted by: JakeD | August 11, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

"Republicans will offer Latinos a seat the table?'

You mean by demonizing them as racists and illegal immigrants?

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

The real unAmerican behaviour, bhoomes, is thugs closing down town halls and resorting to brownshirt activities to shut down discussion on health care.

This is what people will remember -- the wild-eyed, shrieking, and pounding mobs with their swastikas and devil signs doing the bidding of the broadcast Birchers and insurance giants.

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

scrivener,


kind of like what OBAMA wants to do???

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/10/AR2009081002743.html?nav=hcmodule


how about using some credible sources like the WAPO instead of your drivel of a blog.


Please I'd love to hear you defend Obama for what he wants to do.

Posted by: visionbrkr | August 11, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

@ DwightCollins - Like the Supreme Court?

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 11, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Reason enough to give thumbs-down on Christie for NJ governor...

CHRIS CHRISTIE APPROVED WARRANTLESS CELLPHONE TRACKING OF NEW JERSEY CITIZENS: ACLU

• Warrantless covert GPS/cellphone tracking of unjustly targeted citizens is the electronic backbone of a nationwide, extrajudicial vigilante Gestapo that makes a mockery of the rule of law. When will President Obama issue an executive order banning it?

As U.S. attorney, Chris Christie approved the covert tracking via cellphones of so-called "targeted" citizens" without first obtaining a court warrant, according to the New Jersey office of the American Civil Liberties Union.

http://www.aclu-nj.org/news/njsfederallawenforcementus.htm

Covert GPS tracking, using cellphones and covertly implanted GPS beacons secreted in or on the vehicles of so-called "targets," is the telecommunications backbone of a Bush-Cheney- spawned extrajudicial targeting and punishment apparatus -- a nationwide Gestapo-like network that continues under a naive or misinformed Obama administration.

This extra-legal Gestapo is destroying lives and livelihoods of many thousands of unjustly targeted U.S. citizens by way of organized vigilante "community stalking" and an array of secret "programs of personal financial destruction."

Many of the civilian community stalkers are affiliated with federally funded volunteer community policing and anti-terrorism programs that target those considered to be political "dissidents" or "trouble-makers" -- what victims say amounts to an ideologically-driven campaign of "social cleansing."

Victims also allege that they are physically tortured with silent, injury- and illness-inducing microwave and laser radiation "directed energy weapons" deployed under programs administered by various federal agencies.

This weaponization of the electromagnetic spectrum has profound implications for society, because this silent technology makes possible the "perfect crime" -- the undetectable application of potentially deadly force.

Candidate Christie and the federal officials who have enabled tracking of American citizens should be held to account for a wholesale violation of constitutional rights.

For more:

http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america

OR (if link is corrupted / disabled):

See "GESTAPO USA" at http://NowPublic.com/scrivener ("stream" or "stories" list).

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 11, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

With Christie's anti-union rhetoric, I think it is safe to say that he is not going after "every possible vote in NJ"

Posted by: jmercan | August 11, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

corzine doesn't have a prayer in NJ. Obama came in July and he lost 10 percentage points in some polls. Even Obama can't save him. He spit in the face of the unions and now has everyone against him. He deserves everything he's getting. Even his negative attacks on Christie aren't working.

Posted by: visionbrkr | August 11, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

The dems are simply making this to easy for us, what with Nancy Pelosi calling voters un-american if they should dare to disagree with her and Obamas arrogance that makes him unwilling and unable to admit they lost the Healthcare debate. My fear is after the dems take a bath in 2010, R's will have their own arrogance problems after regaining power with such relative ease.

Posted by: vbhoomes | August 11, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

I'm glad to see Republicans are wasting money trying to sell themselves to environmentalists. Can you say zero credibility?

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

:" Prominent conservatives will descend on Steamboat Springs, Colo. later this month for an ideas summit modeled after the Aspen Institutes's yearly "Ideas Festival" in the Rocky Mountain State. Featured speakers include: Reps. Michelle Bachmann (Minn.) and Mike Pence (Ind.) as well as Michael Reagan, the son of former president Ronald Reagan, and Americans for Tax Reform president Grover Norquist."

this is one hilarious paragraph. what sort of ideas, with this group?

*abolish black helicopters
*abolish taxes
*discuss experiences aboard spaceships

Posted by: drindl | August 11, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

"Republicans will offer Latinos a seat at the table...
dems have yet to offer that..."

Uh, isn't that what a 'seat' on the Supreme Court is??

Posted by: RickJ | August 11, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Clay Shaw, wasn't he (or a relative probably) involved in the JFK movie?

Posted by: edlharris | August 11, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

Voters throughout the Country have no one to blame for the corruption by elected officials but themselves. They do nothing but whine about them then come election time the dumb a**s vote for the same person that they have been railing about for the last 2 years.
You got what you asked for!!!

Posted by: donr48 | August 11, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Republicans will offer Latinos a seat at the table...
dems have yet to offer that...

Posted by: DwightCollins | August 11, 2009 8:12 AM | Report abuse

RIP Eunice Kennedy Shriver. The Special Olympics is an amazing legacy and gift to leave for us....

Posted by: RickJ | August 11, 2009 7:22 AM | Report abuse

Hey Chris: hope you have a great holiday!

Re Republicans in NJ: It all seems like tilting at windmills. I don't think Corzine's unpopularity will affect other Democrats in NJ. It certainly won't make the NJ Latino community run toward the GOP, particularly if they plan to blatantly pander to them. A bit of a prehistoric political tactic. As for the environmental charge, that's also a bit ridiculous considering Christine Todd Whitman, EPA chief under W, couldn't get anything done in NJ or nationally. (No offense to NJ, but it will take a long time for it to lose its toxic dump image...)

Re Schiff: As I mentioned yesterday, I don't think Simmons is well-liked in CT and this race could take several turns...

Re FL Dark horse: Interesting choice!

Re Conservatives in CO: They should bring some Mylanta for this bile fest!

Posted by: RickJ | August 11, 2009 7:05 AM | Report abuse

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