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Spinning the health care summit

1. With the health care summit now in the books, the political spin show has begun as each side tries to define what it meant -- and who won. Dan Pfeiffer, communications director at the White House, tried to stay above the fray, saying only that the summit "was a good discussion and even though people periodically lapsed into talking points, it was honest, substantive and thoughtful." (He wrote something similar on the White House blog.) Other senior Capitol Hill aides of both parties were more willing to declare victory for their side. "Democrats stressed similarities while Republicans stressed the differences and trotted out some tired and false talking points about a 'government takeover,'" said a senior Democratic aide. A Republican aide countered that "we fought this to tie and that is a loss for the president and congressional Democrats who needed to make something happen to pull this unpopular bill from the brink." What's clear is that the summit was not the clear win for the White House that President Obama's recent appearance at the House Republican retreat was seen as -- a fact not all that surprising given that Republicans knew they had been rocked back on their heels and were determined not to let that happen again. The next fight -- the only fight that matters -- is over reconciliation (the process by which pieces of the legislation can be passed by a simple majority vote. Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) said at the outset of the summit that unless Democrats "renounced" the idea of reconciliation, any future discussion about the bill was pointless; Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) not only rejected the call to renounce reconciliation but shot back that Alexander needed to check his facts. Assuming Democrats move forward, and President Obama's wrap-up comments at the summit seemed to suggest they will, the party will face a skeptical public. A majority (52 percent) in a new Gallup poll said they opposed the use of reconciliation to pass the health care bill while 39 percent support the idea.

2. New York Gov. David Paterson (D) clung to office Thursday in the wake of an absolutely devastating New York Times piece that alleges that he -- as well the state police -- intervened in an assault case involving one of his top aides. (You must read the entire story.) In the wake of the revelations, the majority of Democratic elected officials in the Empire State -- with Rep. Nita Lowey being a notable exception -- sought to avoid any extensive comment on the matter. Sen. Chuck Schumer (N.Y.) declined to comment on the matter when contacted by the Fix while Emily DeRose, a spokeswoman for the Democratic Governors Association, said only: "As an incumbent member of our organization, we support whatever decision Governor Paterson makes." New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand was more aggressive; "Senator Gillibrand strongly believes there is no place in our society for domestic violence or abuse of power," said spokesman Matt Canter. "These allegations are very troubling and she expects all parties to fully cooperate with the investigation that is underway. She will have more to say when more facts are revealed." The ideal scenario for national Democrats is that Paterson resigns his office -- and that seemed a possibility during a brief press conference Thursday. If that happens, Lt. Gov. Dick Ravitch, who insiders says has no long term designs on the top office, would take over -- clearing the path for the candidacy of state Attorney General Andrew Cuomo. ALSO CLICK: The House Ethics Committee found that New York Rep. Charlie Rangel (D) violated the rules of the chamber in connection with a series of trips to the Carribean in 2007 and 2008.

3. The rapid ascent of former Florida state House Speaker Marco Rubio (R) hit a rough patch Thursday when two of the state's biggest newspapers reported that he had charged more than $100,000 to the state party during his time as speaker. Rubio quickly noted that he had paid back any and all personal expenses he charged to the state party credit card and accused his Senate primary opponent -- Gov. Charlie Crist (R) -- of leaking the records from the state party. Crist, clearly thrilled that the story of the day in the Senate race was not focused on his eroding poll numbers, denied that his campaign had leaked the data and added deliciously of Rubio: "He apparently doesn't like it. That's too bad. Welcome to the NFL." Democrats quickly jumped on the back and forth; the Democratic National Committee released a web video making light of the questions raised by the Rubio credit card revelation. Regular Fix followers know that we have rated the Florida primary between Rubio and Crist as the best intraparty squabble in the country and if the back and forth over the past few days is any indication, it more than deserves that spot. Crist has grown increasingly aggressive in recent weeks, a recognition that unless he can stop Rubio's momentum sometime soon he is headed for a loss in the August primary. Rubio, for most of the race, has been riding a wave of positive press but this episode amounts to the first real test of his political mettle.

4. A new poll conducted for the liberal Daily Kos blog by Research 2000 shows Illinois state Treasurer Alexi Giannoulias (D) leading Rep. Mark Kirk (R) 43 percent to 36 percent in the Senate race to replace Roland Burris (D) this fall. Giannoulias was also better regarded in the Kos poll with 49 percent feeling favorable toward him and 34 percent viewing him in an unfavorable light; Kirk stood at 42 percent favorable/35 percent unfavorable. Giannoulias is likely benefiting from the Democratic tilt of the state -- six in ten of those polled had a favorable opinion of President Obama. The Kos poll results run directly opposite aninternal survey released by Kirk's campaign earlier this month that showed the Republican with a 47 percent to 35 percent lead over Giannoulias. The truth -- as almost always in polling -- is somewhere in between. Both candidates have major weaknesses that their opponent will spend millions to exploit in the extended general election. Giannoulias benefits from the Democratic lean of the state but has to try to get out from under the lengthy negative shadow cast by former governor Rod Blagojevich (D).

5. The picture of the May 18 special election to replace the late Pennsylvania Rep. John Murtha (D) is coming into focus. Former Lt. Gov. Mark Singel (D) abruptly left the race on Thursday, leaving former state treasurer Barbara Hafer and former Murtha district director Mark Critz to fight for the party's nod. The first hurdle will be on March 6 when the Pennsylvania Democratic Party convenes a recommendation convention, a non-binding vote that will be forwarded to the 50-person executive committee, which will make its decision on March 8. Republicans will choose between businessman Tim Burns and 2008 nominee Bill Russell. While the district went for Arizona Sen. John McCain (R) in 2008, the special election will be held on the same day as a series of competitive statewide Democratic primaries, which could affect turnout for the party. ALSO CLICK: The Hawaii 1st district special election to replace Rep. Neil Abercrombie (D) has been scheduled for May 22 -- meaning there will be two special election in the space of four days, a rare treat for political junkies.

By Chris Cillizza  |  February 26, 2010; 6:40 AM ET
Categories:  Morning Fix  
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Next: New York Gov. David Paterson won't run this fall

Comments

I never "admitted" that the flubbed Oath of Office was Chief Justice John Roberts's fault.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 28, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Baynews9 I-Poll in Tampa Florida is a good representation of how the health insurance lobby has influenced people there. I quote the following;
"close your pie hole. Your an idiot who knows nothing about anything when it comes to the president who is a LIAR and one day will prove to be an illegal alien in this country. Obama is a traitor to this country and has done everything in his power to destroy a free society but will FAIL. May he rot in hell. No go bury your head in the crap you make."
Now, this is the norm at this website. Truly pathetic but a fact.

Posted by: seemstome | February 28, 2010 5:17 AM | Report abuse

Here are the basic sentiments from the lunatic fringe in Tampa Florida.

Posted By Mike on 02/27/2010 @ 10:26 AM
close your pie hole. Your an idiot who knows nothing about anything when it comes to the president who is a LIAR and one day will prove to be an illegal alien in this country. Obama is a traitor to this country and has done everything in his power to destroy a free society but will FAIL. May he rot in hell. No go bury your head in the crap you make.

Courtesy of Baynews9 I-Polls

Posted by: seemstome | February 28, 2010 5:07 AM | Report abuse

Here are the basic sentiments from the lunatic fringe in Tampa Florida.
Posted By Mike on 02/27/2010 @ 10:26 AM
close your pie hole. Your an idiot who knows nothing about anything when it comes to the president who is a LIAR and one day will prove to be an illegal alien in this country. Obama is a traitor to this country and has done everything in his power to destroy a free society but will FAIL. May he rot in hell. No go bury your head in the crap you make.

Courtesy of Baynews9 I-Polls

Posted by: seemstome | February 28, 2010 5:04 AM | Report abuse

Thursday’s health care summit was what it was: an exercise in rhetoric. Republicans reprised their familiar routine of propaganda and political theater. Democrats dug in, sticking mostly to the same talking points they’ve been repeating for over a year now. And the President persistently attempted to bridge the gaps and break the deadlock between them, to no avail.

Unfortunately, it was obvious from Senator Lamar Alexander’s (R-TN) opening remarks onward that Republicans never intended to have a real conversation about health care. Rather than focusing on areas of potential agreement, like medical malpractice reform, the senator chose instead to misrepresent the facts about health insurance premiums.

Behind a facade of phony fiscal fortitude, the G.O.P. blindly obstructs legislation essential to our economic recovery, hoping that this cynical strategy will return them to power.

Moreover, by repeatedly refusing to engage in a serious exchange of ideas, Congressional Republicans fail to acknowledge the fundamental truth behind health care reform: that it is an economic and social necessity.

Read more @ http://armchairfirebrand.wordpress.com/

Posted by: ArmchairFirebrand | February 27, 2010 10:17 PM | Report abuse

After scrolling past all these 36(?) posts there's not much left. 37(?).

Posted by: hoser3 | February 27, 2010 1:17 AM | Report abuse

Hey I'm back jake and 37!! Had to leave for a few hours to care for my great-grandson. What a rant you all got on after I left!! Oh yeah-I'm in Iowa, okay? And
the re-do of President Obama's oath was to
OFFICIALLY record it for history, and the
flub-upper stated it correctly the 2nd time
so he was the one embarrassed, NOT the
President. Thank you for admitting that it was indeed Roberts' fault. Seems after I got off you two got ganged up on, wah-wah.
Got some good laughs catching up, sure alot
of wasted time and spaces here, and the
insults, OMG!!!!!!!!!! Thought that was
prohibited, but I'm new, so, forgive me for
being so naive!! When we have to sink to the level of profanity it just exemplifies
the stupidity and lack of intelligance of the profane one!! You two can go nite nite
knowing that you entertained and bored us at the same time today. Hope you get lots of sleep so you can rant, rave, and BORE
us all again tomorrow. By the way, I still
don't know the answer to one of my posted questions-do ya'all have an occupation? I
thought maybe you were on the dole, that
would explain why you support the demise
of the HCR. Catch ya in the AM.

Posted by: patriotgmalou | February 27, 2010 12:12 AM | Report abuse


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Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 10:01 PM | Report abuse

You're more generous with your humor than I. I'm so fed up with people who enjoy being nuisances that it's one of the primary reasons I'm preparing to leave. And no I don't mean just Internet trolls, I mean the whole American love of bothering people.. the drivers who hold up traffic for fun, the esclator passives, the ones who diarrhea on the floor in public toilets, the whole panolpy if nuisances

Not a solitary person like that in VN.

As for Jake, I would hope he leaves this world by the Luca Brasi treatment.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 8:36 PM | Report abuse

You're more generous with your humor than I. I'm so fed up with people who enjoy being nuisances that it's one of the primary reasons I'm preparing to leave. And no I don't mean just Internet trolls, I mean the whole American love of bothering people.. the drivers who hold up traffic for fun, the esclator passives, the ones who diarrhea on the floor in public toilets, the whole panolpy if nuisances

Not a solitary person like that in VN.

As for Jake, I would hope he leaves thos world by the Luca Brasi treatment.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 8:36 PM | Report abuse

@ Noacoler - Jake actually gave me a pretty good chuckle there. Reminds me of a scene from Ender's Game where he figured out a way to make it appear like a classmate was posting. Elementary school hacking.

Now someone just needs to register Fairlington*Blade, where * is a nonprinting character.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | February 26, 2010 8:13 PM | Report abuse

Hope you aren't counting on mark_in_austin and FairlingtonBlade to stick up for you anymore, Jake.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

ageist?  moi?  No.

If you're talking about my McCain remarks, you'll have to take it up with his voters and him.  It's not his age or his POW experience a half century ago that made him the infantile snarling petulant loser who disgraced himself before the world yesterday, it's his own choosing.

Being in Hanoi (nice place, by the way, looking forward to seeing it again soon) left him with restricted arm motion and maybe bad knees, but neither that nor his bout with lymphoma has anything to with his behaving like a bleedin' five year old.

He could have gotten reelected.  He could have left office like a man.  Instead he will leave office in disgrace, and it's his choice.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse


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There will be another violent civil war if Obamacare funds abortion (that's not a threat or wish, just a fact).

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

"Go to hell you [ageist] swine!"

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Thats cute you racist swine

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 7:32 PM | Report abuse

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There will be another violent civil war if Obamacare funds abortion (that's not a threat or wish, just a fact).

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

"unborn children" is even more nonsensical than "registered independent."

we're not going to have a civil war over abortion, over budget reconciliation, over over anything else the bedwetters obsess over. A march or two, a nutbar or two shooting up a clinic, and a lot of big talk from dropouts from life like Jake.

but someone please alert the FBI to Jake's seditious sentiments.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Jake your political predictions aren't worth anything but a good laugh.

Always wishing and hoping for mass murder, assassination, terrorist attack, coup d'état, economic calamity. You are one seriously sick b astard

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 7:19 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 7:12 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 7:11 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade


Have you counted the votes in the House - or are you just talking out of a66 like you always do ?


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Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

The bill can be passed by the House. Reconciliation refers to fixing a few things such as the Cornhusker kickback, Louisiana purchase, Florida fling, etc. Pass the bill, Obama signs it, and then introduce a bill to modify the previous bill. As a bonus, Republicans sound like hypocrites for refusing to repeal options they've bitterly criticized. Of course, that didn't stop them from opposing a deficit commission.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | February 26, 2010 7:05 PM | Report abuse

@shrink - It's an accurate match for the number of lines. So, an empty line counts as a line and any block of text gets one line per 80 characters. It's an accurate count of how much space is being used per post.

Quoted text is a little problematic. It's easiest to simply copy the comments section and paste it as text. If a line begins "Posted by: ", it gets flagged. The commenter's name is anything from the 11th character up to the " |".

Where the method breaks down is if someone includes the identifying line in a quote, it gets flagged the same as an original post. So, a post such as:

I see the stooges are here again

Posted by: King_of_zouk |…

Go suck a tailpipe

Posted by: Chrisfox8 |…

Would get flagged as 4 lines each by Zouk and Chris, rather than 8 lines by Chris. There is a potential handle on that. For an original post, the font is in bold face, but it's plain text for a quotation. Unfortunately, Excel doesn't have any functions to identify text formatting. Now, Word can do a search and replace with format as a qualifier, so I could easily copy the text into word. Replace any incidence post "Posted by:" in bold with "Shazbot" and then work from there. It wouldn't take that much longer, but I haven't bothered.

As the Post is perfectly aware that one individual (or heck, perhaps a team using the same screen name) is taking up about half the comments section, it's only a private amusement. If page views are the lifeblood of CC's blog, well, there's a tick on the blog.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | February 26, 2010 6:57 PM | Report abuse

he is referring to my typo.

The nuclear option refers to Mitch McConnell's threat to change the filibuster rule which I did not hear POTUS say or threaten yesterday.

Secondly the bill is self funded in the bill itself, don t think it will require a separate appropriations bill but I am not a parliamentrian.

Let a R Congress try and repeal HC Reform, Cobra and Medicare. Try that and you will find every R running for the hills in 2012 after a Presidential certain veto. Newt tried to shut down Congress in Sept 1995. That stunt didn't play well with voters the next year but go ahead and try that.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 6:57 PM | Report abuse

My 6:31 PM post was in reference to his 6:28 PM post.

My post 6:19 PM was in reference to your 6:02 PM post.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 6:50 PM | Report abuse

37th (from then-SENATOR Obama in 2005):

"I recognize that the filibuster can be used for unfortunate purposes. However, I am also aware that the Founding Fathers established the filibuster as a means of protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority -- and that protection, with some changes, has been in place for over 200 years.

In regard to your reference to Judge Brown, I voted against her confirmation because I believe her record on the California State Supreme Court raised real questions about her commitment to individual rights and civil liberties. I spoke on the Senate floor about this nomination before the votes were cast, and the following weblink will take you directly to my remarks:

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/050608-remarks_of_us_senator_barack_obama_on_the_nomination_
of_justice_janice_rogers_brown/index.html "

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

JakeD2


What are you referring to?

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Obama is going for the NUCLEAR OPTION - as we have seen everytime Obama has tried a gambit like this, it blows up in his face.


Obama has got to be kidding.


The only question that remains is how much of the democratic party Obama is going to take down with him.

The Republicans are going to repeal the bill as soon as they can.


Even if the Republicans win only one House of Congress next year, they can refuse to fund the health care bill - and thus halt its implementation.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

as always cute yes roles

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Stupak and Ben Nelson are Ds who do not represent the views of 90% of the Ds in Congress, and the GOP Congressmen are loving it. We are a big party and unfortunately this legislation is being hijacked by a small number of Congressmen. My point is that HC has nothing to do with abortion. All that needed to be said was that we respect and will adhere to the language of the Hyde Amend, period but instead the radical anti abortionist (and yes a few of them are Ds) want to turn HC reform into another food fight over abortion. We have seen that nihilitic tactic used in debates over military funding and economic policies alike, totally unrelated to abortion.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 6:39 PM | Report abuse

I do not want "rolls" from the government.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 6:31 PM | Report abuse

thank you, it came from my heart.

We all have different ideas about the rolls of govt in our lives, but our nation's health is not a game to be trifled with. What I posted about the unmet need for cancer treatment or the diabetic who loses his/her life or limbs because they can not afford to see a doctor or buy their insulin or the single mom that has breast cancer and can t afford chemo or a masectomy b/c they can t pay Anthem their 39% premium increase is a real American tragedy. And I say this as a volunteer to our recent free clinics where thousands have shown up in exactly this situation.
When all of the shouting and calls of socialism ends we should all remember that some of these people in dire need of HC may be our parents, our spouses, our brothers or sisters or our own children.
These people are not Rs or Ds but Americans who need help. Most of them likely are not registered to vote nor do they care much about partisan politics, they just want to get the medical care they need to stay alive and survive. The rest of us, mainly middle class, are sick to death of worrying if we can afford to pay our exploding HC premiums or will they have enough to make it to retirement w/o having to turn to their parents for help.
This is an American problem, a real problem for a country that brags to the world that we are the wealthiest. It sickens me to hear that a country as good as it is chooses to have a 2 tiered HC system for the haves and the have nots. Americans keep up your bickering over who is entitled to have HC and who should hold bake sales and car washes to pay for your medical care and we will slide into becoming the next fall of the Roman Empire. I am sick of this bickering and even more sickened to see that many choose to use our nation's actual physical health for partisan advantage. Anyone who thinks that killing HC reform like we heard repeated ysterday or kicking the can down the road another ten or 50 years, is a darn fool. If we don't do something about exploding costs and out of control premiums it will literally bankrupt this country; 15% annual premium increases are just unsustainable and make this contry uncompetitive internationally with everything we build from Boeing to GM.
Enough Already with this partisan garbage!

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 6:28 PM | Report abuse

Rep. Pete Visclosky

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 6:23 PM | Report abuse

37th:

I hope you were being sarcastic?

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 6:19 PM | Report abuse

leichtman


Not sure what you are talking about on the abortion issue - it is the democrats who are seeking to change the abortion rules via the health care legislation - so your point is really critical of the democrats.

So not sure what your rant is about.


Then - it is the Stupak Compromise which was negotiated out by the democrats again - which Obama has now thrown aside - which I find offensive to the Bishops who negotiated in good faith.

So, your posting really makes no sense.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

leichtman

Gee that was a reasonable and level-headed post

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

HC has zero to do with abortion, absolutely nothing but leave it up to the nihilist GOPers and they will turn a child's need for chemotherapy or a single mother's fight against breast cancer or a loving father's fight against prostate cancer into another fight over abortion. Everything from funding the wars, to economic policies to saving a parent from the horrors of alzheimers all ends up being another narcissistic fight over abortion with the radical right. No wonder most Americans don't take the radical anti abortion folks seriously.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 5:59 PM | Report abuse

BTW: "I hope and pray that it does not come to that, but if it does, we will be ready" is not the same as "wish[ing]" for another Civil War.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Keep in mind that the GOP was against slavery too, sparking the first Civil War. Was THAT a mistake? I don't think so. But, it's not just Republicans this time, here are the House DEMOCRATS who voted with Stupak:

Altmire, Baca, Barrow, Berry, Biggert, Bishop, Boccieri, Boren, Cardoza, Carney, Chandler, Childers, Cooper, Costa, Cuellar, Costello, Dahlkemper, Davis (AL), Davis (TN), Donnelly, Doyle, Driehau, Etheridges, Ellsworth, Gordon (TN), Griffith, Hill, Holden, Kanjorski, Kaptur, Kildee, Langevin, Lipinski, Lynch, Marshall, Matheson, McIntyre, Melancon, Michaud, Mollohan, Neal (MA), Oberstar, Obey, Ortiz, Perriello, Peterson, Pomeroy, Rahall, Reyes, Rodriguez, Ross, Ryan (OH), Salazar, Shuler, Skelton, Snyder, Space, Spratt, Tanner, Taylor, Teague, and Wilson (OH).

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 5:53 PM | Report abuse

40 MILLION unborn children have died from abortion. You choose.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 5:51 PM | Report abuse

"You guys do this .."
Sorry Anthem has already started to DO THIS to Ca. policy holders.
45,000 good American citizens die each year b/c they are not covered by HC. Apparently that is just fine with the GOP.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 5:49 PM | Report abuse

"Fifty-six percent of people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Friday say they think the federal government's become so large and powerful that it poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens."

Thank you cheney/bush

Posted by: knjincvc | February 26, 2010 5:49 PM | Report abuse

"Ira:
You guys do this and I wouldn't be surprised if the GOP get a veto-proof House."

For what? To really prove republicans are the party of "NO!"?

Posted by: knjincvc | February 26, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Just as to this specific issue:

A poll from November 10–11 by Angus Reid Global Monitor found that 54% of Americans supported "prohibiting the use of federal funding for insurance that covers elective abortions". Among self-identified Democrats, 46% expressed support.

In a November 12–15 Washington Post – ABC News poll, 61% responded they "support barring coverage for abortions for those receiving public subsidies".

A November 13–15 CNN – Opinion Research Corporation poll found that 60% of the respondents oppose public funding of abortion. When asked whether private and employer-sponsored insurance plans should cover any costs of abortion or whether women should have to pay the entire cost themselves, a 51 – 45% majority said women should have to pay the full costs themselves.

A December 22 poll taken by Quinnipiac University showed that voters opposed public money in the health care bill to pay for abortions by 72% to 23%.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Fifty-six percent of people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey released Friday say they think the federal government's become so large and powerful that it poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Pro Life political expert comes on a public blogs site and wishes for a civil war and massive loss of life. How pro life of you.
The Hyde Amendment is the law and remains the law. The Stupak Amendment tries to do what the US Supreme Ct. is unwilling to do and Stupak will not become law regardless of your threats.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

That's right, the casualties from another such war will be just as bad (if not worse). But, we can only be pushed so far. If our tax dollars are going to be used to fund abortions via Obamacare, that's where I will finally draw the line -- hopefully Stupak and other join the fight -- I swore an oath to protect this nation, and I will do so:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them . . ."

I hope and pray that it does not come to that, but if it does, we will be ready. You've seen me quote the line about our Constitution not being a suicide pact. The related corollary to that is that the Declaration of Independence most certainly is, "with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse

BuhBye,

Do you count empty lines (carriage return key use/abuse)?

Do you count lines wherein other peoples' posts are quoted?


Posted by: shrink2 | February 26, 2010 5:12 PM | Report abuse

You are about to be shamed into having national HC just like you were shamed into accepting Medicare and Social Security. Stop your bellyaching, its unbecoming for a political party.

Posted by: leichtman
------------------------------------------
If we can get ponies and bigger hdtv's too "without raising taxes a single (or a quadzillion) dime" then I'm in.

Posted by: leapin | February 26, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

" At least 618,000 Americans died in the Civil War, and some experts say the toll reached 700,000. The number that is most often quoted is 620,000. At any rate, these casualties exceed the nation's loss in all its other wars."

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

37th:

Agreed (BTW: FairlingtonBlade just uses Excel, it's not that hard to do ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Jake


Obama has DECLARED WAR on the American People.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Fairlington


Sorry about that - I guess I wasn't posting enough today - I will try to step it up a bit.


How long did it take you to count that.

Does that qualify you for obsessive-compulsive treatments ? Is that covered under your policy ?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

There will be another violent civil war if Obamacare funds abortion.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Oh yea, Obama is doing a great job - inspiring confidence

Fifty-six percent of people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Friday say they think the federal government's become so large and powerful that it poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens.


-----------------------------

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

I admitted that you voted for an idiot who got 48,000 votes. We are all impressed with that national prominence. And you never admitted that 48,000 votes would not even get him elected Sheriff where you likely live.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

"...the opposition coming from progressives who feel that the Senate Bill w/o a public option does not go far enough..."

C'est moi!

Posted by: shrink2 | February 26, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

What do you think that a FEW MILLION of us "whack jobs" could do to stop Obamacare?

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

here it is Mr. Expert since you were not sharp enough to understand it; its called COBRA for a reason

The Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA)

and how is that repealy stuff going with COBRA, SCHIPS and Medicare?

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Incidentally, there is no FINAL Obamacare bill yet, which will be tied up in the courts for ten years first (and you still haven't admitted that 48,000 votes is more than a "few hundred ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

The only thing more stupid for the Senate Dems to do would be get rid of the filibuster completely (even though they appear headed to a likely minority as well). The GOP backed away from the nuclear option, and that was when it looked like they would rule for 40 years.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

incidentally all of the HC provisions go into effect b/w 2014 and 2019. Last time I checked that is years before the 10 year sunset provision you for once accurately site. We are sure you once bloviated about the socialist program called COBRA. How is its repeal coming Mr. Expert?

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Ira:

You guys do this and I wouldn't be surprised if the GOP get a veto-proof House. Perhaps it would be better for everyone if you just went back to ignoring me?

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 4:41 PM | Report abuse

"expertise I've developed in politics and public opinion"

that is a joke Right?

And Mr. Expert would you please explain to all of us novice political folks what the R stands for in the most recent HC bill passed called COBRA. You do know what COBRA is, right Mr. self proclaimed bloviating expert?

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Another issue with reconciliation is that the GOP won't have to do anything expect block future attempts to make Obamacare permanent (anything passed via reconciliation has to carry a sunset provision of no more than 10 years, well before most of the provisions take hold anyway). Keep it coming, Dems!

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

incidentally Jake its debatable what will happen in Nov. but apparently you are unaware of something called the POTUS veto. Obama would tell Rs go ahead and make my day if they should ever be so stupid. Next on the GOP desk is to try and repeal Medicare and Social Security. Good Luck with US voters when you try.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Add this to my tab regarding reconciliation:

". . . the political fallout from using reconciliation, which in my view could be enormous: The Bush tax cuts were popular; health care is not. Moreover, the filibuster actually polls well, so use of [reconciliation] would be unpopular. If you intersect an unpopular policy with an unpopular process, I don't know what you're going to get, but the downside risk would seem to be fairly profound -- as in, I'd take even money at that point that the Democrats would lose the House.

Also, tax cuts are a relatively straightforward application of the reconciliation process -- health care is not, and the resulting procedural debate would last weeks if not months, giving the public plenty of time to stew over it.
None of this is to say that the reconciliation strategies are impossible. They might work. But the hurdles are much more significant than what Jon has implied, and reconciliation might also 'work' but produce a worse, perhaps much worse, policy outcome. Even if one were willing to ignore the political fallout, it would be a fairly poor strategy. And when the consequences for the Democrats' electoral fortunes are taken into account -- as well as their compromised ability to pass policies like a jobs bill and financial reform next year -- it seems like a very poor risk.

My impressions of the reconciliation process, just like my impressions of the health care bill itself, are formed based on a combination of extensive reading in an area in with which I'm not so familiar (Senate procedure), coupled the expertise I've developed in politics and public opinion. It's a view that reflects the 'consensus' that most others who have earnestly considered the issue have come to."

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Total # of lines in today's comments section: 2600
Total lines by poster given below (80 characters to a line).

Total Name
1007 37thand0street
203 elijah24
149 leapin
144 JakeD2
144 leichtman
143 jaxas70
87 Bondosan
85 shrink2
80 patriotgmalou
79 Noacoler
75 AndyR3
49 mark_in_austin
42 Bockscar
39 margaretmeyers
34 12BarBlues
29 doof
22 blert
19 JohnGalt9
199 All other posters

(excluding this post, of course)

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | February 26, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

And when the GOP take back the House and Senate, they will repeal Obamacare.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

and those same polls which you seem addicted to claiming opposition to HC reform do not account for a large part of the opposition coming from progressives who feel that the Senate Bill w/o a public option does not go far enough. Strip out those numbers and see what that HC poll shows. Polling on issues rather than do you support candidate X or Y is more sensitive to the wording of the pollster's questions. And certainly the tax problem in New Jersey and lousy employment picture nationally had nothing to do with the wins in Va and New Jersey all those voters cared about (not shown in their exit polling) was national HC. You are entitled to your own opinions, just not your own facts. And do you think that Ds care what the R hypocrits railing against reconciliation feel. Conveniently you fail to mention that COBRA and SCHIPS both being healthcare bills, were passed by reconciliation. Oh what babies. You are about to be shamed into having national HC just like you were shamed into accepting Medicare and Social Security. Stop your bellyaching, its unbecoming for a political party.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Boehner looked like he's been drinking the embalming fluid. Same ole drivel coming from the right, "Let's let the markets work."

Posted by: Kelly14 | February 26, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Obama certainly did more talking than listening to the other side…

That wasn't the request I made of the Brick Wall. I requested any substantiation of the claim for a 50/50 split of time. That having not been given (and judging from the numerous posts, the Brick Wall has nothing but time), I think we can conclude that the claim is untrue. Need I pull a Joe Wilson?

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | February 26, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Bye Bayh, Desiree Rogers!!!

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

The only problem is the latest polls provide no support for his position. A new Gallup Poll finds that, by 52% to 39%, those surveyed oppose attempts by Democrats to circumvent a filibuster by passing health care by a simple majority vote. A separate poll by CNN found that only 25% of voters want Congress to pass a bill similar to the ones already voted on by the House and Senate. A full 48% want Congress to start over, and 25% want lawmakers to stop working on health care altogether.

That voters don't understand "procedures inside the Senate" is also belied by the election of Scott Brown in Massachusetts, who attracted even Democrats to vote for him by promising to be the 41st vote to uphold a Senate filibuster of ObamaCare.

Vice President Joe Biden thought he was doing his boss a favor during the summit when he shot down Republican arguments about the public's opposition to ObamaCare, but he wound up sounding like a critic of Mr. Obama's own lecture to Republicans. "I'm always reluctant after being here 37 years to tell people what the American people think. I think it requires a little bit of humility to be able to know what the American people think," Mr. Biden told the meeting.

Of course, there is some evidence beyond public opinion polls that the public is upset about the Democratic health care bills. Voters in Virginia, New Jersey and Massachusetts -- states that represent almost a tenth of the nation's population -- have all held statewide elections in the last three months that were won by staunch opponents of ObamaCare.

Posted by: leapin | February 26, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Hey leapin

Any system that an take a country as big as a continent from 16th century feudalism to a major industrial power in a single generation is worth anyone's admiration.

While your beloved free enterprise can't even get anyone a doctor appointment in less than two weeks.

Posted by: Noacoler
-------------------------------------------
Despite Boston's abundance of top-notch medical specialists, the waits to see dermatologists, obstetrician-gynecologists, and orthopedic surgeons for routine care have grown longer - to as much as a year for the busiest doctors.


A study of five specialties shows that the wait for a nonurgent appointment in the Boston area has increased in the past five years, and now averages 50 days - more than three weeks longer than in any other city studied.

Patients in Boston and other areas of Massachusetts for years have faced notoriously long delays, according to earlier surveys of physicians' offices. A number of factors contribute, doctors said, but the 2006 health insurance law, which has required hundreds of thousands of state residents to obtain coverage, probably has worsened the waits.

Posted by: leapin | February 26, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

I am glad Anita Baker, who can still sing my kids to sleep, is not going to jail trying to protect her earnings from her ex.

Oh yeah, politics...my personal Statist favorite is the FAA, for all its problems, for all its mistakes, it is still the best in the world. I remember a commercial flight a few years ago between islands in the South Pacific. In the run-up, the pilot kept banging (hard) on one of the cockpit gauges until it read properly; as we filed off the plane after a two hour night flight over water, I got to see what gauge it was, left engine fuel pressure.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 26, 2010 3:45 PM | Report abuse

leapin since you are so obssesed with communism and socialism, doubt you know the differenc, if Social Security, Medicare and the VA Health system, COBRA, Family and Medical Leave, IRAs, the US Highway system and the US Food Safety Inspectors system were not in existence today and all coming up for a vote in the US Congress, would you label Ds as socialists for supporting them? And do you urge the R party move to abolish all of these socialists US programs? I certainly all well thinking conservatives take that position with their current elected leaders and urge it is a plank in the next R Party Convention.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Hey leapin

Any system that an take a country as big as a continent from 16th century feudalism to a major industrial power in a single generation is worth anyone's admiration.

While your beloved free enterprise can't even get anyone a doctor appointment in less than two weeks.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 3:34 PM | Report abuse

interesting that leapin and the rest of the right still talk like it is in 1950 and they are Senator Joseph McCarthy. Its great to know that American society has advanced so much in 60 years. Why don't you just ask him if he is a card carrying member...

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

"NOTHING LIKE THIS HAS EVER HAPPENED IN AMERICAN HISTORY.
OBAMA - I HAVE ONE THINK TO TELL YOU - IT IS NOT THE COLOR YOUR SKIN, IT IS THE CONTENT OF YOUR CHARACTER."

Hummm ... how about Reagan using reconciliation to pass tax cuts which started Americas decline into bankruptcy. $5 trillion dollar debt by 1992.
How about GWB using reconciliation to add another $5 Trillion to the debt.

Posted by: knjincvc | February 26, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Well there goes the neighborhood. Good time to run some errands till 37th dozes off on his keyboard again

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

All Ds including LBJ and FDR were labeled as communists and marxists simply b/c they have a different philosophy on the role of govt in American society. Just listen to right wing talk radio it is a never ending hate fest against Bill, Hillary and now Obama.
Posted by: leichtman
-----------------------------------------
Well the different philosophy of government is so much different than the foundation of the country and for most of the intervening years and is more akin to the old Soviet Union. I mean half of O’s appointees are outright communist admirers in their own words. Left wing talk radio, for as long as it was in business, was a hate fest, against R’s.

Posted by: leapin | February 26, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

I have never (here or in private) hoped for, advocated or threatened to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon Barack Obama.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Never in American History has a President resorted to such LIES AND DECEPTIONS TO GET A BILL THROUGH.


Before Congress, Obama made more commitments which are simply NOT IN THE BILL.


1) Obama said the health care bill would be paid for - it is NOT - it is $3 TRILLION IN THE RED


2) Obama said that illegal aliens would not be covered - LOOK IN THE BILL


3) Obama said that abortion provision in federal law would not be changed - the Senate version throws out the Stupak Amendment


Obama lied in front of Congress in September - it is that simple.


The democrats on here who are defending Obama are defending a liar and a person who has been trying to deceive the country for a year.


This is a DISGRACE


IT IS SHAMEFUL


NOTHING LIKE THIS HAS EVER HAPPENED IN AMERICAN HISTORY.


OBAMA - I HAVE ONE THINK TO TELL YOU - IT IS NOT THE COLOR YOUR SKIN, IT IS THE CONTENT OF YOUR CHARACTER.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

The only thing bipartisan right now is A BIPARTISAN MAJORITY AGAINST OBAMA.


Obama's disapproval is now at 55%


Obama looks like he is throwing in the towel on re-election.


This is what he alluded to with Diane Sawyer.


The democrats are in for rough rough ride -


Obama is sinking faster than a lead ball off an iron ship


Obama is doing nothing to help himself or the democrats.


Every man for himself

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Well Ds better try harder or they better stop talking about "reform" and start talking about ways to raise the money to buy fancy insurance for everybody, it just is not realistic. I miss Howard Dean, but as a leftist doc who has only worked with indigent (abandoned) people for more than two decades, sure, I am biased. I believe socialized medicine could be a key part of saving this country from its decline into post-imperial decadence. There, I said it.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 26, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I don't "hate" Obama either.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

==

balls. You openly hope he gets murdered you sick b astard

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Ds tried to rein in the beast with a whimpy Public Option that was immediately labeled by the right as socialism. Ds also proposed Medicare eligibility at 55 and were shot down, so its certainly not for a lack of trying. Rs support unbridled free enterprise even if it means protecting AIGs or Anthem or predatory CC practices.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

I don't "hate" Obama either.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

The hate, or concern, about JFK was about his Catholicism. Today that hate, heard often on this blog towards religion, would come from the left. I don't know of anything about JFK that was blantantly as statist as Obama and the people that surround him. People feel strongly about giving up their liberty for the tyranny of the state. It doesn't matter what color or nationality the statist is..


Posted by: leapin


Please! No one or group (left or right) has a monopoly on hate. I like how you twist those that hate our current president as patriotic. Most haters justify it that way now a days. Spares us this stupidity please.

Hate the president...then work to make sure he does not get elected next time.

I love the country as much as you. I am just as patriotic as you. I just happen to not hate this president.

Posted by: ModerateVoter | February 26, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I still want to know how Americans plan to pay for this health care system. America has chosen to keep growing it. Both political parties are choosing to let the industry bill this country for whatever it chooses to cause you to buy.

The Democrats want to feed the beast, the Republicans only pretend to want to starve the beast, but no one has the courage to cage the beast. You can't even talk about that.

You have to promise everybody everything they already have, no new taxes and no (not one dime) deficit increase and everyone who does not have what they want will get it.

Does that sound real? Fantastic delusions, I like them a lot, stupid delusions, not so much.

Health Care reform (rationing) will happen, it is already happening, but it seems it won't come through the political process.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 26, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

sorry leapin you are wrong about JFK. Racism was much deeper seated and open then it is today in the 1960s. JFK's Catholicism was an issue in the campaign but he was thought of as being sympathetic to minorities and that is what drove the hatred here in the south. I am waiting to hear the name of one D POTUS in the last 35 years that was treated with the same respect by the R right, as was Gerald Ford and Reagan. Again there are many on the right that simply don't believe that any D is a legitimate POTUS. All Ds including LBJ and FDR were labeled as communists and marxists simply b/c they have a different philosophy on the role of govt in American society. Just listen to right wing talk radio it is a never ending hate fest against Bill, Hillary and now Obama.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Nader however "only" got 738,475 votes, with Barr at 523,686 votes and my second choice, Baldwin, at 199,314 votes. Even McKinney got 161,603 votes. That is all pretty significant to me in terms of the numbers of Americans dissatisfied with BOTH major party candidates. Just look at the opinion polls. LOTS more voted for the lesser of two evils last time around.

==

you must be one of the stupidest people alive.

A national candidate could get more votes than Keyes from people who forget their spectacles and punched the wrong box. Wouldn't surprise me if Pat Paulson got more votes.

You're so dumb you see a national outrage trend in a rounding error.

And you might ponder why nobody else here but you begs for responses.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

"If anyone else wants to discuss (in a civil manner) how the TEA Party can best address this situation, please let me know."
==
Disbanding would be a huge start.

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

I am old enough to remember the hate directed towards JFK.

Posted by: leichtman
-------------------------------------
The hate, or concern, about JFK was about his Catholicism. Today that hate, heard often on this blog towards religion, would come from the left. I don't know of anything about JFK that was blantantly as statist as Obama and the people that surround him. People feel strongly about giving up their liberty for the tyranny of the state. It doesn't matter what color or nationality the statist is..

Posted by: leapin | February 26, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

For the record, I was simply disproving the claim that Keyes got a "few hundred" votes, nothing more.

Nader however "only" got 738,475 votes, with Barr at 523,686 votes and my second choice, Baldwin, at 199,314 votes. Even McKinney got 161,603 votes. That is all pretty significant to me in terms of the numbers of Americans dissatisfied with BOTH major party candidates. Just look at the opinion polls. LOTS more voted for the lesser of two evils last time around.

If anyone else wants to discuss (in a civil manner) how the TEA Party can best address this situation, please let me know.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

yea Alan Keyes was a very serious Illinois Senate and POTUS candidate. 48,000 votes is not enough votes to get elected to be sheriff in most towns.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

leapin I never ever said or condoned the hate we hear from your side about my POTUS, George W Bush. I disagreed with his policies and fought like heck against them and thought him wrong headed and stubborn but never did I stoop to the level of hate we read hear about Obama. Which doesn't answer my basic premise that any D POTUS elected, be it Hillary, Biden, Dean etc would be facing the same hatefilled rants from Glen Beck and Limbaugh couched in different slurs. Not sure why you cannot understand that the right just does not believe that any D can ever be a legitimitae POTUS. I am old enough to remember the hate directed towards JFK.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

I do have adequate health care (but I am not a Republican, and Philip J. Berg is a DEMOCRAT!!!).

http://obamacrimes.com/

You still haven't answer these questions:

1) You are aware that Obama re-took the Oath of Office later in the week, right?

2) Who do you blame for Obama saying there are 57 -- or was it 59 -- States (or that 43 men have taken the Oath of Office)?

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

And you think that fewer than 48,000 votes out of over 130,000,000 is in some way significant?

Yeah, real "gotcha" correction there, clown. A few ten thousands instead of a few hundred. Wow you really nailed him.

Idiot.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

jake-my-my you are thick-skulled. Okay, I will sink to your level simply for clarity. You pubs will not let go of your
lame attempt to question President Obama's
legitimate citizenship. Could you get back on topic please. This forum is not your
blank canvas for racism and bigotry. That
is all that comes across from you, and it
is pathetic. This country will NEVER be
allowed to heal as long it is full of your
type. Do YOU have adequate health care?
If your answer is no, you should be supporting the HCR process, obviously you
are well healed and satisfied with what we
are forced to submit to, highway robbery
encouraged by your party.

Posted by: patriotgmalou | February 26, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

and they all have "lots of black friends"

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

47,694 of us "whack jobs" voted for Alan Keyes.

http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2008/2008presgeresults.pdf

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Its 4 years of attacks. We should have a thick skin about it, I am sure Obama understands the attacks will never stop. Its part of the territory of being a D POTUS.

Posted by: leichtman
------------------------------------------
How disingenuous like there was never an attack on a R president.

Posted by: leapin | February 26, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

I'm still waiting for a member of congress, from either party, to submit a bill to remove lifetime health care for members of congress and their staff.

Posted by: knjincvc | February 26, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

we know jake you and a few hundred of your whack jobs.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

If he was not born in the U.S., Obama isn't any of those (whether he is a Muslim or not, that's unresolved too).

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

And if we can't, then I think we've got to go ahead and make some decisions, and then that's what elections are for," Obama said (Murray and Kornblut, 2/26).

Posted by: 12BarBlues
-------------------------------------------
The election was for POTUS. Not for unlimited undisclosed agendas.

Posted by: leapin | February 26, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

sorry I have to disagree. The right feels that any D that is elected POTUS is an illegitimite POTUS the moment they are sworn in. In this case Obama won by millions of votes and somethink like 85 electoral votes, it doesn't matter. If it ended up being POTUS Biden, Hillary etc they would still be on their attack, it goes way beyond skin color. We heard the attacks down in the south when JFK was POTUS. The attacks from the right never stop. There is no I respect him he was elected now let him/her lead the country. Its 4 years of attacks. We should have a thick skin about it, I am sure Obama understands the attacks will never stop. Its part of the territory of being a D POTUS.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

You're right. I should just let it go. I have to admit though, I get a kick out of reminding him that the Leader of our country, the military's Commander In Chief, The most powerful man in the world is President of the United States of America Barack Hussein Obama, who also happens to be a black man. I'll drop it now.

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

elijah24:

Assuming he is legally President of the United States and the most powerful man in the world, it is NOT A FACT that he is "not a muslim" (for the record, I voted for the other African-American running for President last time around ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I asked this question earlier and it went ignored. I'm sure it wasn't because you conservatives know I'm right and you dont want to admit it. You must simply not have noticed it, so I'll post it again:

"Start over", "Blank sheet of paper", "Start fresh", "Back to the beginning", "the American people want us to go back to the beginning"
These are the "bipartisan" ideas that the GOP brought to the table yesterday. Democrats are going to take a hit for health-care in the upcomming elections, regardless what happens. If they pass a bill, they can take a small hit. If they pass no bill, after wasting a year trying, the GOP will take back both chambers of Congress. Republicans know that Dems can't walk away from this. They know that to start over is to kill the idea all together. They know that we know that if we start with "a blank sheet of paper" that paper will stay blank, and so will the Democratic side of most of the ballots this fall.
With that in mind, by what logic would you say that the GOP came to the table with biparitanship anywhere near their intentions?

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Elijah, please don't corroborate with that cretinous bigot Jake in hijacking another thread. He has already been banned for this birther BS and you know ad well as I that its the color if Obama's skin that outrages him, not any actual question about eligibility.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

I know. I wasnt saying he was. I was saying Barack Hussein Obama, the President of the United States, is the most powerful man in the world, but is not a muslim.

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

"the Most Powerful Man in the World is in fact not a muslim"

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

what specifically is not a fact?

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

what specifically is not a fact?

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

The only thing bipartisan right now is A BIPARTISAN MAJORITY AGAINST OBAMA.


Obama's disapproval is now at 55%


Obama looks like he is throwing in the towel on re-election.


This is what he alluded to with Diane Sawyer.


The democrats are in for rough rough ride -


Obama is sinking faster than a lead ball off an iron ship


Obama is doing nothing to help himself or the democrats.


Every man for himself

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

if the right wing wants to tell I dying sick cancer child that he/she can not have HC b/c of your obsession with ending all abortions go for it. And HC will never pass the US Congress with the Stupak language that essentially overrides Roe v Wade. Aint goin to happen, period. Again let us see how Sen Brown would vote on a stand alone bill. My guess he would punt and just vote present.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

elijah24:

That is NOT a "fact".

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Why are you pubs so full of unreasonable
hate and cynicism? This HCR is 30-40 years
too late, your lemmings have been against any type of HCR, no solutions, just hard-
headed and hard-hearted opposition. When did a pub fight for HCR? Status quo is so
abominable, so cruel, so heartless. Anything is better than nothing, which is what your party wants.

Posted by: patriotgmalou | February 26, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

How is it being a "bigot" to ask whether Obama has an Indonesian passport?

==

because questions about Obama's provenance have no factual basis and have been shown time and time again to be racist proxies, you sick b astard

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I'm not getting into President Barack Obama's credentials as an American citizen. The only people who don't believe that he is by now, never will no matter how empirically he proves it.
As for why I think 37th is a bigot, it's because he called Commander-in-Chief Barack Obama, an "affirmative-action president" implying that he is somehow less worthy of the office he has attained than were his 43 predecessors. He also used islam as a pejorative, which shows prejudice not against Leader of the Free world Barack Obama, since the Most Powerful Man in the World is in fact not a muslim; but against all who DO practice Islam.

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Pelosi KNOWS she does not have enough Dem votes to pass anything without the Stupak amendment. Get over it; you lost.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

More about reconciliation:

At the close of Thursday's summit, President Barack Obama hinted at his party's next step: If Republican support does not emerge, Democrats will move forward with reconciliation, a complicated procedure that would allow them to pass health overhaul legislation even without a filibuster-proof 60-vote majority in the Senate, The Washington Post reports. Such an approach carries political risks, and may not succeed, but, Obama signaled that he would take those chances. "The question that I'm going to ask myself and I ask of all of you is, is there enough serious effort that in a month's time or a few weeks' time or six weeks' time we could actually resolve something? And if we can't, then I think we've got to go ahead and make some decisions, and then that's what elections are for," Obama said (Murray and Kornblut, 2/26).

Posted by: 12BarBlues | February 26, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Obama's numbers are falling apart


Strongly approve at 35% at beginning of Feb is now down to 23%

Obama's DISAPPROVAL IS NOW UP TO 55 %

Obama's total approval is at 44 %

YIKES - OBAMA IS REALLY COMING DOWN

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Need a tooth implant?

The efficient free market USA: $4000

Squalid Communist Viet Nam: $100

but hey Cubans try to get here on innertubes. An' Bush kept us safe.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

patriotgmalou:

The last thing I asked you was "Where are you?!". If you can't tell me which accusation you are referring to, that's fine by me.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

since Scott Brown is allegedly pro choice, it would be interesting to see how he would vote on a stand alone bill to strip out the Stupak language. That vote would put him in a box with his Tea Party supporters.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Two steps, three steps, 57 States, 59 States, who cares?

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Jaked2-don't go there, your accusation was
blatant and obvious. 37thandOstreet-I am a
disabled retiree, in educational field for 29 years, your occupation?

Posted by: patriotgmalou | February 26, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

And even when you're paying your health insurance twice as much ad your mortgage they'll drop you the first time you get anything worse than a cold.

Gotta love that free market. Now bend over and grab your ankles, market forces have spoken.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Politico lays out 2 step strategy for healthcare legislation.

"Step one, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has said Congress must first pass a reconciliation bill with major, but limited, fixes to the original Senate bill. Step two, the House would then agree to pass the Senate bill. Step three, both chambers would have to pass a third bill with policy changes that would not pass muster under reconciliation," to address issues not related to the budget, such as abortion (Budoff Brown, 2/26).

Posted by: 12BarBlues | February 26, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

elijah24:

How is it being a "bigot" to ask whether Obama has an Indonesian passport?

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

I will stand with my charge. In your specific case it is not even hidden racism it is overt. It has absolutely no business in an otherwise civil conversation about politics.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 1:19 PM | Report abuse

patriotgmalou:

Where are you?!

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Well, I guess it's nice that corner has dropped all pretence of being anything but a bigot. Good for you moron. Let that trogladite flag fly!

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

to all those who claim that HC reform is unimportant, I ask you, could you afford to pay a $5000 p/year increase (which is based upon a cheap $1000/mo current premium) to your HC carrier?

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

leichtman


Stop with your false charges of racism


The American People are sick of this joke which you call political discourse.

The democrats are fast headed out the door -

Obama said the election is over - but he forgot to mention that there is another election in 8 months.

Maybe Obama is planning on cancelling the election - who knows - but Obama CERTAINLY IS NOT FOCUSED ON THE NEXT ELECTION.


That must have been horrifying for the democrats in the room.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

better question : why have your hate filled rants not been banned by the WP?

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 1:10 PM | Report abuse


the HC sideshow? You call a 39% increase in HC premiums, a noninflationary sideshow? Its real and its devistating. Let see you worry about homeowners? About deciding whether to pay your mtg company or your predatory HC carrier to provide you with cancer treatment or your insulin. Is that a sideshow. Not if you are part of the upper class that can afford to be ripped off by Anethem Bluecross. And one of the brilliant proposals I heard by a R Senator yesterday is for more people to go into state pools. And that physician isn't aware that state pools by law are entitled to charge twice the premiums of private carriers. Brilliant suggestion to keep HC costs down.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 12:20 PM
----------------------------------------
Latest news from California--Anthem says "screw you, we're putting the increase in". Attorney Gen of California subpoenas financial records of 7 large insurors, to justify rates and to investigate abuses in claim denials. Don't know what kind of power AG actually has, but at least he's trying to derail & intimidate the insurors. Insurors clearly don't give a sh*t about their public image.

Small story in Kaiser health news: Anthem cancelled scheduled meeting with investors and analysts to guide them to 2010 profit numbers. As a financial executive, I can tell you that NOTHING is more important than this type of meeting. My guess: profit picture for Anthem is less certain than it was.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | February 26, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

elijah24


NO Elijah - there are 57 States of Islam


Obama was showing his Muslim education

Everyone is sick of the democrats lying and deceiving about Obama's unusual Muslim heritage.


DID OBAMA HAVE AN INDONESIAN PASSPORT OR NOT

The democrats keep on skipping over the relevant parts.

Does Obama hold his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance - or is he still against that ????

Come on - all this is shameful.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

I spent many years getting educated in the Peoples' Republic of Cambridge Massachusetts.

My mom moved from Brattle Street to Woods Hole when she retired.

I know Massachusetts. Massachusetts is a friend of mine, oh wait, wrong speech. It is a great place to become an elitist, but it is not a great place to live. The PNW rocks. WA has no income tax and OR has no sales tax. We just upped taxes on the rich! Fortunately, I am barely rich by Oregon standards, so it was an easy call. Let Phil Knight pay for something beside idiotic uniforms for the University of Nike's thug squad. The Ducks make the Jail Blazers of the '90s look like pikers. But I digress...

Posted by: shrink2 | February 26, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

elijah24:

I know all that, and realize that normal people blame Obama (I was asking "patriot"gmalou who HE or SHE was blaming).

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

get over it; you lost.
no one cares about yout your racists diatribes, period.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

leichtman


Everyone cares - it was a slip of the tongue - indicating that Obama was educated in a Muslim country.

The question remains: Did Obama ever have an Indonesian passport.

Because in one of Obama's books, he says he traveled to Pakistan in the early 80s - at a time when it was illegal to travel there under an American Passport - so it would be logical that Obama used his Indonesian passport if he had one.

These are all legitimate questions.

Obama should be doing everything he can to answer the questions - and get it over with.

Well Obama should come clean - that is all everyone is saying - and there is nothing wrong with that.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Jake, He said 57 states. It was his fault. He meant to say that there were 57 primaries/caucus's. Which is true. 50 states + 1 because Texas has both a primary and a caucus=51 + 6 for the virgin islands, Puerte Rico, Guam, DC, American Samoa, and Americans living abroad = 57. It was a mis-speak. Its not like he spent 8 years mispronouncing (Nuk' le ar), or saying "...fool me twice...(pause for thought)...ye cain't git fooled again"

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Move to "civilized" (and soon to be bankrupt) Massachusetts then.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Yes, in general I am all for injecting cash into my own pockets, but do I feel bad for all the people who have no way to get health care? Yes. Either way I'll make enough money to get by somehow (doctors complaining about the amount of money they make is are as ubiquitous as they are nauseating) but I'd rather have affordable UHC, it just seems so much more civilized.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 26, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

patriotgmalou:

To which "accusations" of mine are you referring?

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

it was said on May 9, 2008. get over yourself, no one cares.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone heard any post-summit polling?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | February 26, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

37th:

I am aware of that ("unflappable" Obama said there are somewhere between 57-59 States).

elijah24:

I am not kidding.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

We have 46 States and 4 Commonwealths for a total of 50

One District.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 12:52 PM | Report abuse

JakeD2-I seem to recall some documents that
were unsuccessfully hidden in the "military"(what a joke) records of ole'
Bushy. Your accusations were never proven,
and won't be. Get off your hate train man,
you are pathetic. I kept trying in vain to justify Bushy and his dastardly deeds, he just kept following Cheney and Rove's lead like the puppet he was, again, what a joke.
Oh, by the way, Bushy's records WERE found.

Posted by: patriotgmalou | February 26, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

interesting that you would regurgitate a May 9, 2008 story you likely heard about from Glen Beck. Wake up jake its 2010 no one cares about a 2 year old story other than the regular crowd of Obama haters like you that visit here.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

No, I was not napping. You claimed that Obama was "unflappable". Even if it was all Roberts's fault, it still proves that Obama is flappable. You are aware that Obama re-took the Oath of Office later in the week, right? I'm curious who you blame for Obama saying there are 57 -- or was it 59 -- States (or that 43 men have taken the Oath of Office)?

==

1) of no importance to anyone

2) snarky, stupid, idiotic

3) off-topic

Quit it. And get a job.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

shrink2:

I thought that you were all for injecting more cash into the existing system (and your own pockets)?

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

1) No terrorist attack on U.S. soil for EIGHT YEARS (until after Obama's world apology tour)
>of course you conveniently refuse to start the clock on that 8 year stretch until after the worst terrorist attack in history.

2) Partial-birth abortion ban;
>Which is good unless you are a pregnant woman with medical problems in the 3rd trimester which require the termination of the pregnancy, or if the fetus is dead in the womb, and there is no point in carrying it to term.

3) No federal funding for abortions overseas or additional human embryonic stem-cell research (until Obama again);
Yeah, no stem-cell research. on behalf of all the people with spinal damage, ALS, or any of the diseases that could have been treated with stem-cells: thanks a lot.

4) Sam Alito (AMERICAN HERO at the purported State of the Union address);
>are you kidding?

5) John Roberts
>who couldnt remember the oath of office and had to have the man he was swearing in, correct him at the innaguration infront of a million people (a real million, not a Fox News million) live, and millions more watching on TV. The guy who gave absolute power to the corporations, and took all power away from you and me. Yeah, they should cannonize this moron now.
God, what is it i didn't like about Bush again?

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

JakeD2


There are 46 States.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

patriotgmalou


I don't understand what you wrote in your posting at 12:18 - what state are you from?


What is your question ???

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of cost containment, let's look at some numbers. warning to conservatives: facts ahead.

Medicare: administrative costs ~1%, executives on government salary

Private insurance: administrative costs ~30%, salaries in nine figures.

Let's start there.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

patriotgmalou:

No, I was not napping. You claimed that Obama was "unflappable". Even if it was all Roberts's fault, it still proves that Obama is flappable. You are aware that Obama re-took the Oath of Office later in the week, right? I'm curious who you blame for Obama saying there are 57 -- or was it 59 -- States (or that 43 men have taken the Oath of Office)?

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

patriotgmalou


Why won't you favor the release of the underlying documents in a sealed file in Hawaii ??

It seems that with all of Obama's commitments to transparency, it should not be a problem.


With all the questions, why not simply release the contents of the sealed file and be done with the issue ???

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Again, any effort that does not change the system's fundamentals will only grow the system. We are all going to pay much more for health care, there is no stopping it, except if the economy contracts.

Evidently, the health industry is big enough to stop any serious effort at reform, especially in this political climate. So reform was never on the table, only which way the cost increases would be handled has been debated.

This is not nearly as important an issue as the economy being on the skids. We could afford a wasteful health system, we have in fact, if the economy were to grow and grow, but it does not look like that is going to happen, soon anyway. But if the massive increases in health care costs built into this system of care are not affordable, the very worst kind of rationing will result, hence the reference to the so called developing world (not including Cuba, of course).

I'm with Howard Dean et al, if we are not talking single payer, we are just talking about how to inject more cash into the existing system.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 26, 2010 12:37 PM | Report abuse

In my view, the Senate Bill, now apparently the only thing left on the table, will balloon the deficit, just like doing nothing. Both options, this mandated Health Care Spending Increase bill and the Republican nonsense "incremental market reform" will kick the can down the road.
In a country this size and this fractious,
only a single payer system can impose cost controls without damaging access and quality.
Posted by: shrink2
------------------------------------------
We can only hope the the “imposed cost controls” are as effective as Nixon’s wage and price controls.


Posted by: leapin | February 26, 2010

____________________________________

Leapin


Im agreeing with much of what you have been saying - however Nixon's price controls have been blamed for sparking the massive inflation in the late 70s.


Shrink - thank you for telling us that you really want a single payer system - which is basically a government take-over and is basically socialist.


Do you favor a government take-over of other parts of the economy too ???


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

JakeD2-don't even go there. Were you takin'a nap during the greatest inaugural
in 50 years? That flub-up was ALL Robert's fault, just a lame attempt by the poor losers to trip-up the elected President of the United States, he was intelligent enough to try to correct the supplanter.
DIDN'T WORK-won't work no matter how many
times they are stupid enough to try. Give it up dude.

Posted by: patriotgmalou | February 26, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

actually the 2005 compromise stated that filibusters are to be limited to bills which have "extraordiary circumstances". Considering that R Senators have now threatened to filibuster over 110 bills, they are violating the very terms of that agreement. Should I remind you of Mitch McConnell's daily rants of demanding an Up or Down Vote.
Its time to pass the constituitional option.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

37th:

Plenty of respect will be given to Bryd's opinion on the matter (assuming he makes it til then).

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

JakeD2


Does Senator Byrd do the ruling or does the Parliamentarian?


I think a few of the democratic Senators are going to realize that they do not want something like this to happen.

Given the compromise on the judicial nominations in 2005, cooler heads should prevail.

I think the moderate democrats in the House will actually be the reality-check - they are all up for re-election this year and they have to be feeling the heat at home.

Obama will be back in Hyde Park soon enough - teaching his clas on "Marxism in America" that he always wanted to teach the younger generation about.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

In my view, the Senate Bill, now apparently the only thing left on the table, will balloon the deficit, just like doing nothing. Both options, this mandated Health Care Spending Increase bill and the Republican nonsense "incremental market reform" will kick the can down the road.
In a country this size and this fractious,
only a single payer system can impose cost controls without damaging access and quality.
Posted by: shrink2
------------------------------------------
We can only hope the the “imposed cost controls” are as effective as Nixon’s wage and price controls.

Posted by: leapin | February 26, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

patriotgmalou:

1) No terrorist attack on U.S. soil for EIGHT YEARS (until after Obama's world apology tour);

2) Partial-birth abortion ban;

3) No federal funding for abortions overseas or additional human embryonic stem-cell research (until Obama again);

4) Sam Alito (AMERICAN HERO at the purported State of the Union address); and

5) John Roberts.

Next question?

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Mark: excellent summary, clear and finely drawn.

Cillizza: please drop the "political junkies" phrase. Anyone who has ever known someone who descended into the slavery of addiction finds this viciously insensitive.

All: we've seen enough posts by 37th to know that he is here to waste our time and suppress discussion and that he brings nothing to any debate. If you don't scroll past his deranged drivel you need some help with time management. If you respond you are taking part in ruining this blog. Why nothing gets done about this remains a mystery.

Posted by: Noacoler | February 26, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

jake is apparently unaware what the R stands for in COBRA and how the SCHIP law came into being.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

the HC sideshow? You call a 39% increase in HC premiums, a noninflationary sideshow? Its real and its devistating. Let see you worry about homeowners? About deciding whether to pay your mtg company or your predatory HC carrier to provide you with cancer treatment or your insulin. Is that a sideshow. Not if you are part of the upper class that can afford to be ripped off by Anethem Bluecross. And one of the brilliant proposals I heard by a R Senator yesterday is for more people to go into state pools. And that physician isn't aware that state pools by law are entitled to charge twice the premiums of private carriers. Brilliant suggestion to keep HC costs down.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

37thandOstreet-you metioned earlier that
the HCR was settled in Massachusettes, this
is a pub talking point I am really sick of. Massachusettes voters, 90% of whom have
good health coverage, spoke only for themselves. Until MY STATE gets to vote on
a referendum or candidate, on the basis of
MY STATE, this is hogwash. They did NOT
speak for ALL Americans, it did NOT send a
message at all. Do you live in lucky ole' Massachusettes? You must have it cushy.
Either that or you are just another brain-lavaged pubby, blindly parroting the mind-less rhetoric. Here's a mind-blower, how
about an ORIGINAL thought, from any of you
Obama haters. Shame on all of you. You all
undoubtedly supported all the policies of the Bushy years, and remind me again-just
where did that all take us? Fill me in on
all the wonderful things that crack pot
achieved for the American citizenry. I
double-dog dare ya.

Posted by: patriotgmalou | February 26, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Obama claimed: "We've tried to take every cost-containment idea that's out there and adopt it in this bill."

THE FACTS: A number of moneysaving ideas have been watered down or excluded entirely.

[for instance]

The Congressional Budget Office estimated the government could save $41 billion over 10 years by capping jury awards in medical malpractice lawsuits — an idea promoted by Republicans but opposed by trial lawyers, who have traditionally been heavy contributors to Democratic politicians. The forecast savings are far higher than were anticipated when the nonpartisan budget office studied the issue in the past. But Obama and congressional Democrats have not gone along with caps.

Also, the budget estimated the government could save nearly $19 billion over 10 years by "bundling" Medicare payments to hospitals. Under this proposal, the government would make a single reimbursement covering a patient's hospital stay and post-surgical care instead of paying separately for each procedure or visit.

Obama initially embraced the measure but Congress and the White House ended up settling for weaker steps like demonstration projects that won't yield savings anytime soon.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100226/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_summit_fact_check

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Well the Republicans don't have to completely repeal the bill if they capture one or both Houses of Congress next year.


Obama should watch what he wishes for.


The Republicans can simply refuse to fund the health care bill - and anything that has to do with it. So if the Republicans capture control of just the House, they can probably stop the implementation of most of the bill next year.

If Obama wants to throw the elbows, there are a variety of elbows which can be throw back at him.

The health care bill will get repealed - one way or another the costs are just too great - the democrats' hopes that somehow a future Congress will be FORCED TO FUND A RUN-AWAY PROGRAM simply does not have to be the way it happens.

In fact, there are many democrats who are hoping that a run-away program will force a future Congress to adopt a single payer system - and that is what they are trying for.

The Republicans can simply repeal the program - and blame the democrats the whole way through.

See, if Obama had tried for a truly widespread bipartisan bill, he wouldn't have people wanting to repeal the bill before it is passed.


Again, Obama is causing this situation to develope.

The Republicans - with only one House of Congress - can simply refuse to fund all of the provisions of the health care bill - effectively halting its implementation - until Obama is finally voted out in complete humiliation.

Then Obama can go back to Hyde Park to teach the class on Marxism in American that he always wanted to.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

What I want to know is how Sen. Bryd (D-WV) is going to rule on using reconciliation for Obamacare when he's on the record being against reconciliation for Hillarycare. Those should be interesting verbal gymnastics!

If anyone else has not seen the latest CNN polling against Obamacare, be sure to turn on a TV some day.

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

jake regurgitates more Frank Luntz talking points the people don't want the bill. The people, jake exactly who are these mysterious people, other than your jokers with the Tea Party. A large majority of progressives are in that group you call The People, b/c they strongly feel that the proposed bill w/o a Medicare at 55 provision which Rs hate is a hollow shell. And to think about it most R would be voting against any form of Medicare today if it wasn't in existence, but don't dare admit that. There is in fact a R proposal to total scrap Medicare and turn it into a catastrophic coverage system only. Like to see them tell seniors in Fla and Nevada they favor such a system.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

nevering = never (darn Spellchecker ; )

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

patriotgmalou:

So, Obama was "unflappable" regarding how many States (or prior men who have been President) there are? How about that flubbed Oath of Office?

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

"Start over", "Blank sheet of paper", "Start fresh", "Back to the beginning", "the American people want us to go back to the beginning"
These are the "bipartisan" ideas that the GOP brought to the table yesterday. Democrats are going to take a hit for health-care in the upcomming elections, regardless what happens. If they pass a bill, they can take a small hit. If they pass no bill, after wasting a year trying, the GOP will take back both chambers of Congress. Republicans know that Dems can't walk away from this. They know that to start over is to kill the idea all together. They know that we know that if we start with "a blank sheet of paper" that paper will stay blank, and so will the Democratic side of most of the ballots this fall.
With that in mind, by what logic would you say that the GOP came to the table with biparitanship anywhere near their intentions?

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Lost in the sauce is this incontrovertible fact: health care spending will balloon the deficit and carry Medicare into oblivion if the basics of the reimbursement systems remain unaltered. For all the heat, both sides agree, they will not make fundamental changes in the existing sets of fee-basis relationships, they will simply add to them.

In my view, the Senate Bill, now apparently the only thing left on the table, will balloon the deficit, just like doing nothing. Both options, this mandated Health Care Spending Increase bill and the Republican nonsense "incremental market reform" will kick the can down the road.
In a country this size and this fractious,
only a single payer system can impose cost controls without damaging access and quality.

So we are all going to spend a lot more on a health care system that continues to under-perform. Now, back to the #1 issue, revenue growth.

We see home sales falling, both new and used, which is terrible news. AIGs losses are further evidence the real estate value crisis is far from over.

Unless property equity values stabilize, consumer confidence, production investment, hiring all will stay soft, further threatening property values. The health care side show was kind of interesting, but health spending will limit itself if the economy stays flat. We have traveled to the so called developing world and seen what way too little money for health care looks like.

Posted by: shrink2 | February 26, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

37th:

Don't worry about them (remember what Napoleon said about nevering interrupting your enemies when they are making a mistake ; )

Mr. Cillizza put it best during the Live Chat:

"I don't have an easy answers on how Democrats can change the political landscape . . . From a purely strategic point of view, the White House believes the only way for Democratic Members to avoid defeat is to pass health care -- allowing them to tell their constituents that they got something down in gridlocked Washington.

Of course, if people don't want the bill, passing it might not be the best solution either."

Posted by: JakeD2 | February 26, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse

One possible explanation is that Obama has already resigned himself to being a LAME DUCK.


It surely explains Obama's erratic behavior.

Clearly Obama has thrown out the window all concern for what the public wants - and now Obama is shredding any chances he has left at re-election.

The question for the democrats is how far they are going to allow Obama to drag them down.

The democrats have a rogue President on their hands - who knows what he's going to do next.


It is clear that Obama doesn't care about what the American People want anymore - he has decided he is a LAME DUCK - and the country is on a roller coaster now.

Obama alluded to something like this with Diane Sawyer -

The "let's pull all the stops out in the first term - and forget the second term" attitude - well that may explain it.

The democrats are in for a wreckless ride.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

doof-our President NEVER SEEMS DISORIENTED.
That is what the pubs find so baffling. He
is unflappable, much like FDR was. He WILL
achieve many good things for us, he has
what it requires to take the reins, the perverbial bull by the horns. He is made
of that same fabric FDR was, the indelible
fabric of strength when you know in your heart you are on the right path FOR THE
PEOPLE. This summit finally will quell the
quest for bipartisanship-but his vision for
that was admirable. He will get on with the
work demanded of him, and he has the back-bone and tenacity to do it. GO PRES!!!!!

Posted by: patriotgmalou | February 26, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

the empty suit Boehner did nothing yesterday but regurgitate the Frank Luntz talking points. He offered the conversation squat. Yesterday Chris Matthews put together a collage of all of the R talking points repeated incessantly by the clowns calling themslevs R Senators repeating the same garbage You have got to start all over with a clean slate. Sounded earily like a Marx brother routine; just need the duck to fall down and ask Boehner to say the magic word. What garbage we heard from the brain dead R Senators. The only R Senator that actually had anything new and intelligent to offer the meeting was a surprisingly coherent Senator Colburn. As a physician even he knows the reality that the current HC system is broken and needs major reform.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

37THAN0STREET, telling me that I am "upset" is like Glenn Beck calling Teddy Roosevelt a socialist. It is painfully obvious from our respective postings this morning who the "upset" one really is.

As for me, as I have said, I was never more proud of our President that when he correctly pointed out the lunacy of Barrasso's pathetic, delusional Social Darwinisn of providing the same menu of choices he had in obtaoining health insurance by pointing out that someone making $147K has an obvious advantage over someone making $40K, a point Barrasso seemed confounded by.

And that sums up the problem with the GOP. The constituency they represent has no idea or concept of the problems most working Americans face. Indeed, when the GOP talks about tax cuts for Americans, which "Americans" do you think they are pleading poverty for? Certainly not that Smith guy that Senator Harkin talked about making $40K.

Look 375th, you can snivel, semper,, snip, hiss and prick all you want but at the end of the day any person who saw that yesterday had to come away with a feeling that the President was far more on top of things than any of his GOP critics.

Posted by: jaxas70 | February 26, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

interesting that Alexander and his majority of 41 are dictating the terms of the HC debate, its called chutzpah. Could you imagine Ds in 2001 trying that stunt with the unpaid for tax bill and a newly elected POTUS Bush. Somehow the delusional R Senators believe that 41 governs a body of 57 D Senators; truly bizarre. What a total perversion of the obscure concept of democracy. Its time that we remember Sen McConnell's daily chanting and demanding an UP OR DOWN VOTE.

Posted by: leichtman | February 26, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

leapin


The Republican went prepared to engage in a bipartisan way - Boehner even offered to Obama the broad outlines of a potential agreement - but Obama visibly got angry and rejected it.

Obama was NOT THERE TO GET A COMPROMISE.

The American People are realizing this.

Obama's stance was nothing more than a PARTISAN EFFORT.

It was shameful - it was deceitful - it was everything that our government SHOULD NOT BE.

Obama is a FRAUD - he is hurting the democratic party.

People can NOT WAIT FOR THEIR CHANCE TO VOTE AGAINST THE DEMOCRATS.

If the election were held today, Obama would be back in Hyde Park faster than he can spend a billion dollars.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

jaxas70


I can tell you what is unsustainable - Obama's spending.

Obama's health care spending looks more like a COCAINE BINGE than anything else.

Did you see Obama's budget from a few weeks ago ??

The budget prompted a few statement from Obama on the need for austerity - and then Obama went back to a BIG SPENDING BILL.

Your positions are a joke.

The democrats are unfit to govern this nation - Obama is unfit to govern.

I can understand why you are upset - that you can't bare to watch when Obama is being such a hypocrite - and when you KNOW he is offering up these lies to justify a massive government spending program.

It is ugly - it really is an ugly sight.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

The Democrats’ problem is that Obama himself is their only star, and the format was not working for him. He certainly seems engaged and well informed, even given a few misstatements of fact, at least one of which John Kyl made very clear. But he doesn’t seem like the President of the United States—more like a slightly cranky committee chairman or a patronizing professor who thinks that saying something is “a legitimate argument” is a way to avoid having an argument. He is diminished by the circumstances, he’s cranky and prickly when challenged, and he’s got no one to help him. The other Democrats around the table have been worse than unimpressive. The Republicans seem genuinely well-prepared, seem to have thought through the question of who should speak about what rather carefully, and several of them have done quite a good job making their case against the Democrats’ approach. If we were to judge by debating points, Republicans certainly won handily.

Posted by: leapin | February 26, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse

"I know this is like ashes in your mouth 37th, but the President was the winner hands down! I have never been more proud of my President."
==
I totally agree. In the exchange when the President said "the campaign is over" it reminded me of the scene in Band of Brothers when Captain Soble walks by Major Winters without saluting. Winters, who had been Soble's subordinate before destinguishing himself and getting promoted past his former commander, stops him saying "CAPTAIN SOBLE! We salute the rank, if not the man who wears it."
President Obama seemed to be saying "yeah, you outranked me at one point, but the people chose to promote me above you. I get that that may be hard for you to deal with, but you will just have to deal with it." What I wouldn't have given to hear him end their exchange with "I. SAID. GOOD. DAY!"

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Look. The President was head-and-shoulders above all of the mincing, miserable, smallminded, partisan little bugs in that room. And it showed.

Posted by: jaxas70 | February 26, 2010 11:16 AM


Obama thought he could win by making the republicans look bad. But it backfired. The republicans were ready and made Obama look disoriented. If health care is so important to democrats why would you take an approach that brings it to ruins. Obama accomplished nothing, just as he has for the last year.

Posted by: doof | February 26, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Amen onifadee! Anyone who saw that set to between the President and McCain has to utter a sigh of relief that Obama is President and not McCain.

The contrast was stark. I have never seen McCain look so small and squalid. And in their second confrontation--the one in which McCain talked about a backroom deal (a deal Obama wasn't involved in concerning Senator Bill Nelson in Florida)--Obama left McCain sputtering when he told him he actually agreed with him! It was at that point that I knew McCain was toast. He's done for. I''l bet he ends up dropping out of his re-election campaign.

I know this is like ashes in your mouth 37th, but the President was the winner hands down! I have never been more proud of my President.

Posted by: jaxas70 | February 26, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

The Democrats can’t explain away the gimmicks in their health bill.

We have some strong disagreements on the numbers,” President Obama said after Rep. Paul Ryan (R., Wis.) concluded his devastating critique of the Democrats’ budget claims, “but I don’t want to get too bogged down.” In the ensuing debate, what became clear is that the Democrats just don’t have an answer to Ryan’s arguments. They ducked, dodged, and changed the subject repeatedly, because Ryan’s numbers themselves are unimpeachable.

The Democrats are touting an estimate from the Congressional Budget Office that their health-care bill would reduce the deficit by around $130 billion over the next ten years. What Ryan pointed out — and what no Democrat even attempted to counter — is that this is because the legislation front-loads tax hikes and Medicare cuts and defers costs, forcing the CBO to score ten years of offsets with only six years of spending. Looked at on a level playing field, the true ten-year cost of the bill is $2.3 trillion rather than $950 billion, Ryan said.

Not only can’t the political class make hard decisions on entitlements, the Democrats are trying to create a new entitlement and hide its cost. And if they succeed, we are in very big trouble.

Posted by: leapin | February 26, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

"You are 100% correct - for the conference to be productive we would seen Obama offering COMPROMISE POSITIONS IN THE MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES"
==
You don't want compromise. You want concession. You don't want to make this bill better you want to kill it. You don't think we need a health-care plan. Fine. Thats a valid position. I think it's a bit naive, but if that is what your side thinks, its fine. But dont try to convince me that you want to compromise, just to get us to weaken it in case you fail. If you think that the insurance companies are doing a better job than the federal government can do, have the conviction to stand by that belief. but don't be angry when we stop trying to get Republican support for a bill that they will never support.

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

No mention of that liar and cheat Charlie wrangle today? Why not?

Perhaps a crooked, thieving, self serving liberal really isn't news.

How bout if we could find one that isn't?

Posted by: Moonbat | February 26, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Come on 37th! You cannot look at McCain's and Boner's squalid performance and how easily President Obama dispatched them in the manner of a schoolmaster and tell me that you were not impressed at how he utterly dominated the entire discussion. He not only took on the republicans and peeled away the phony facade and deceit, he also admonished the democrats to concentrate on areas of agreement.

And let's be honest. His trimming of Barasso's sails was masterful! This PHD, elitist doctor, now a congressman thought he could snow the President with his lame arguments about offering the same sort of insurance choices that he enjoyed. Obama calmly kept pointing out to him that most of us out here don't make the $147K that congressman Barasso made. And boy, did that make him look like the partisan, wealth adoring fool that he really is.

Look. The President was head-and-shoulders above all of the mincing, miserable, smallminded, partisan little bugs in that room. And it showed.

Posted by: jaxas70 | February 26, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Anybody that actually watched the summit and not the recap by whatever partisan news outlet they favor saw that the President once again demonstrated why he's President and the republicans have been reduced to spinning their political losses on the chitlin circuit.

They went through point by point on each of the policy provisions, and the republicans didn't have any substantive criticisms of those provision.

More importantly they never produced a serious alternative plan to cover the 30 plus million people that lack coverage. Their "plan" if you could call it that boils down to telling working class people to create savings accounts to pay for their health care bills and get catastrophic coverage. Worse yet, they had the audacity to suggest the elderly should fend for themselves in the private market with a "voucher" that doesn't even cover TODAYS costs let alone projected costs over the next 10 years.

The republicans are lucky most Americans don't have time to watch these things themselves and draw their own conclusions.

Posted by: onifadee | February 26, 2010 11:12 AM | Report abuse

It is beyond clear that the present system of private insurance is unsustainable because it will drive most working Americans out of the market. Even the GOP admits this. But because of their hidebound devotion to to the market system, they cannot take that next step because they are in thrall to a right wing that believes erotically in the old, obsolete, unserviceable, anachronistic, 18th century, Adam Smith inspired system of economics.

Posted by: jaxas7
------------------------------------------
Exactly we need to go with the new high-speed printing press technology to print money. The EU is going to use it to save Greece. New economics through technology.
MMM.MMM.MMM

Posted by: leapin | February 26, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

The American People want Washington to move on to the ECONOMY AND JOBS.


Everyone thought that Obama put the health care debate behind a few weeks ago.


WHAT IS OBAMA DOING AGAIN ??? NOT THE PRIORITY OF THE NATION.

Obama has no idea what he is doing.

HISTORY will show that this health care debate is OBAMA'S SMOOT HARLEY - Seriously folks, everyone knows we are going in the wrong direction.

But we have an inexperienced guy WHO KEEPS ON DISTRACTING THE NATION AWAY FROM THE ECONOMY AND JOBS.

Obama is a complete disaster.

Obama is destroying his own party in the process.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

A six week deadline laid down by Barry.

What is this, the fifth deadline?

Posted by: Moonbat | February 26, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse

gary928


You are 100% correct - for the conference to be productive we would seen Obama offering COMPROMISE POSITIONS IN THE MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES.


Instead, we got a bunch of stories which did NOTHING to move anyone toward the middle ground.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse

37th and0 street, just like McCain, Obama's effect on you is the same effect a hemorrhoid has on the sphincter. Look. You're mad because President Obama was so damn good and his GOP rivals were so typically poor when it came to the most substantive question of the day: What in the world do you have that would cover the 37 million people who presently have no health insurance?

The bottom line of all of this is that the GOP admitted that it doesn't have a plan that would do that because they simply do not believe that Health care should be a right for everyone. For all of their blather about the right to life, they are perfectly willing to deny their fellow citizens that right by denying them health care. This is the central question in all of this.

It is beyond clear that the present system of private insurance is unsustainable because it will drive most working Americans out of the market. Even the GOP admits this. But because of their hidebound devotion to to the market system, they cannot take that next step because they are in thrall to a right wing that believes erotically in the old, obsolete, unserviceable, anachronistic, 18th century, Adam Smith inspired system of economics.

Posted by: jaxas70 | February 26, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade


Obama certainly did more talking than listening to the other side - and that does not include the democrats.


Sorry but Obama embarrassed himself yesterday by pulling his PARTISAN TALK AT THE END OF THE SUMMIT.

What a joke - what a waste of time - EVERYONE IS SICK OF OBAMA NOW.

Yesterday's summit was a FRAUD - and it was Obama WHO WAS THERE IN BAD FAITH.

Exactly what Obama wanted to accuse the Republicans of - Obama was guilty of - from A to Z


I understand you don't like the idea that you have been FOOLED BY OBAMA - THAT YOU VOTED FOR HIM AND HE HAS LET YOU DOWN.

I understand that you might be ashamed of Obama's behavior.

But don't blame me for Obama's lies, Obama's deceptions, Obama's shameful behavior - Obama's making a complete FRAUD out of his presidential campaign.

That campaign has turned out to be a FRAUD.


And now Obama is trying to create the ENRON OF ALL GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.

I can understand why you are upset.


Obama let you down.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Bondosan, he's paid by the line. That's why we are treated to the


CAPS


>space barspace bar<


and


REPITITION


.

.


.

.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | February 26, 2010 11:02 AM | Report abuse

For what its worth, Louise Slaughter's (NY-28) comments about the poor woman who has to reuse her dead-sister's dentures is turning out to be FALSE.

Seems the local news in her district can't locate anyone with that story, and her office isn't telling us either.

Typical Democrat liar.

Posted by: pgr88 | February 26, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

A farce from the outset. Talking points from the other party?? What about how every democrat incl the top dog Obama, have to drop the sympathetic BS about some poor soul who can't afford their health insurance? Gimme a break. This has NOTHING to do with the approach taken in that 200+ monstrosity bill they jammed together in the back halls.

The meeting was like them all - a complete wast of taxpayer dollars - all for the endgame to justify using the nuclear option.i.e, see...those bad republicans want to obstruct - ergo we must push forward without them.

We ALL can see through them- they are liars and cheats. And Obama's "ends justifies the means" is simply NOT good enough as an excuse Ezra. When we start that - all's lost.

Posted by: gary928 | February 26, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse

jaxas70


Why do the democrats use the word "gracious" to describe Obama - when in fact Obama was trying to call the Republican out for not being bipartisan ???

AND while all the time Obama had PARTISAN MOTIVES - AND INTENDED ON ACTING IN A PARTISAN MANNER??


How in the world can that be "gracious" ??

I'm sorry but that characterization is a deliberate attempt to deceive the American People, and I find it repugnant - and shameful.

The shameful acts by the democrats are poisioning our political system - they claim to want bipartisanship but they do not act that way.

Jaxas70 your posting at 10:39 is filled with lies and attempts to deceive

- your behavior is shameful.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

The summit was a bit like a reversed Fox news discussion in which there were three sides, with the "moderator" being on one of them. The Democrats largely minimized any differences (that famous 80% of agreement), noted any mischaracterizations, and acknowledged what remains as fundamental differences.

I wonder if the 80% of America with health insurance is happy leaving the other 20% out to dry.

The Brick Wall did get up early this morning. With all that free time on his hands, perhaps he can find any quote wherein "Obama agreed to split the time equally between the democrats and the Republicans."

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | February 26, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

For what its worth, I unfortunately am in her district, and Louise Slaughter's (NY-28) story about the old lady using her dead sister's dentures is turning out to be FABRICATED.

That's all Dems can offer when confronted with facts on Obamacare - lies and fear.

Posted by: pgr88 | February 26, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

The emperor has a new set of clothes.

Posted by: Moonbat | February 26, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

For what its worth, I unfortunately am in her district, and Louise Slaughter's (NY-28) story about the old lady using her dead sister's dentures is turning out to be FABRICATED.

That's all Dems can offer when confronted with facts on Obamacare - lies and fear.

Posted by: pgr88 | February 26, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

You're absolutely right doof. I am a proud jackass. Did you know that the donkey is one of the most revered animals in human history? Christ rode into Jerusalem on a donkey because he felt the animal was the perfect representative of his own humble roots and served as an example of the vast majority of humankind who work like donkeys only to be exploited by larger more powerful interests--perfectly represented as an elephant--you know: Big, powerful, slowgoing, lazy creatures who exist for little else than relying on donkeys to do the hard work while they lay about all day sunning themselves and snorting up short supplies of water to bathe themselves.

The donkey is a beloved creature as well--intelligent, loyal, and articulate. I'll take a donkey's gregarious and outgoing hee-haw anytime to the irritating screech that elephants emit. I was hee-hawing with an elephant just the other day and typically ended up with him screeching and belching epithets at me, calling me names and insisting that donkeys were inferior to elephants and did not deserve the same right in the Constitution which he saw as only applying to the big and powerful.

Posted by: jaxas70 | February 26, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse

37andObamaStreet:

Believe it or not, I am actually gainfully employed and have a family that requires my time and attention.

So, as much as it would amuse me to do so, I simply cannot spend all day posting on Mr. Cillizza's blog.

However, you, Zouk (or whatever his current handle is), and Jake seem to have endless hours to spend here.

GET A JOB AND GET A LIFE.

By the way, as you obviously don't work, where does your own health insurance come from?

Mom and dad?

Posted by: Bondosan | February 26, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

the comments would be alot more informative and discussion worthy if everyone, from both sides would just ignore the corner. he's all talking points and insults, no room for exchange of info,
just ignore him!!! I'm so sick of having to scroll through all of his cr$p just to see what both sides are saying. We all have to just ignore him, and maybe he'll give up or actually put some posts up that actually mean something, instead of the constant insults and misinformation.

Posted by: katem1 | February 26, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

jaxas70

Obama agreed to split the time equally between the democrats and the Republicans


So your point proves that Obama can not be trusted.

Obama did more talking than listening to the Republicans - what does that tell you?

Yesterday was the longest display of hypocrisy by an American President - ever - in History - Obama said he wanted to be bipartisan - but all along OBAMA INTENDED TO ACT IN A PARTISAN WAY.

This level of hypocrisy does NOT belong in American government.

It is pathetic.


It is shameful

Obama is way out of bounds.

You have nothing to stand on.


And to somehow hold up that shameful behavior as something good, is a complete joke.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Look. All of the wishful thinking blah-blah aside coming from Obama's critics, it is beyond obvious that he dominated at the summit. He ruthlessly dispatched those like Boehner and McCain who tried to turn the event onto a campaign debate. He was gracious in that not only did he bend over backwards to give everyone a chance to have their say, he even went two hours over schedule to da that--not an easy thing for a President who has enormous time pressures to contend with.

I rarely take seriously what Obama's critics on this blog say because quite candidly, they are not serious thinkers. But, I have even less respect for the pundits and analysts within the beltway and in the NY media circles because when they hadicap these events they almost always turn out to be wrong once the public's reaction starts rolling in.

And as for reconciliation, it is a normal part of the Senate process and has been misused equally by both parties. The reason for that is because the Senate has this ridiculous rule that has replaced the traditional filibuster with a system that now coddles Senators and gives them excessive power to veto legislation for almost any frivolous reason, without even having to sustain the more painful aspects that once attended the procedure. Now any Senator can announce his intent to filibuster any bill, then stroll off the floor to any one of a variety of elegant restaurants fro a taxpayer funded lunch and spend the rest of the day in an extravagant hotel suite nearby while others are left to wrangle over the Senator's pithy decision. Think Joe Lieberman. Think Ben Nelson.

Posted by: jaxas70 | February 26, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Doof(us), you have an exquisitively appropriate blog handle.

Posted by: jaxas70 | February 26, 2010 10:13 AM

Jaxas, I thought the same thing about your blog handle. It seems like it's a shortened version of jackass.

Posted by: doof | February 26, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

The Republicans brought forth some good ideas to the summit.

If Obama chooses not to incorporate any of them into the legislation, then that alone is proof that this was political theater.

Posted by: postfan1 | February 26, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Frankly, this is the sort of media analysis that is destructive to this Republic. Who won? Who cares? Stop spinning. How about an article instead that examines how many of the GOP ideas are in the current House, Senate and White House Plans. That's information that might actually help American's make an informed decision.

Posted by: wappinne | February 26, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Richard is right, corner. You are a racist. Your bigotry could not be more clear than it is right now. You don't have to get out of the country, but you do have to live with people calling you what you are: a racist.
The filibuster has NEVER been used as much as it is right now. Pick almost any two years in history, and you won't get as many cloture votes as we had last year.
I think the filibuster is wrong no matter who uses it. Minority rule is idiotic. But it's tolorable when it is used only in extreme cases. For example if Jay Bivey or John Yoo are ever appointed to the supreme court, a filibuster would be more than justified. I don't mind it on occasion for lifetime appointment cases. Beyond that, it is simply undemocratic.

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Obama yesterday was stumbling, stuttering, at times didn’t know what to say. He accomplished nothing. He looked more angry and cranky than Harry Reid. This is not what the democrats had hoped for. Anybody who sees this as a win for Obama is clueless.

Posted by: doof | February 26, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Richard18


Give the country a break


No one wants the health care bill.

You don't care about any of the lies or deceptions.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Focus on the facts. We have to quit allowing the press to distract us with party in fighting. It doesn't matter who is blocking who. The infighting has been going on from the beginning. The important issues is the structure and essence of the proposal at hand. Healthcare reform is not going to be successfully completed through legistislation. Look at the govenment's track record on other issues. Healthcare reform was on President's Truman's agenda. It's not about cost it's about entitlement. We need to stay focused, look back at history and study it or we will be condemned to repeat it

Posted by: Bockscar | February 26, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Focus on the facts. We have to quit allowing the press to distract us with party in fighting. It doesn't matter who is blocking who. The infighting has been going on from the beginning. The important issues is the structure and essence of the proposal at hand. Healthcare reform is not going to be successfully completed through legistislation. Look at the govenment's track record on other issues. Healthcare reform was on President's Truman's agenda. It's not about cost it's about entitlement. We need to stay focused, look back at history and study it or we will be condemned to repeat it

Posted by: Bockscar | February 26, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Focus on the facts. We have to quit allowing the press to distract us with party in fighting. It doesn't matter who is blocking who. The infighting has been going on from the beginning. The important issues is the structure and essence of the proposal at hand. Healthcare reform is not going to be successfully completed through legistislation. Look at the govenment's track record on other issues. Healthcare reform was on President's Truman's agenda. It's not about cost it's about entitlement. We need to stay focused, look back at history and study it or we will be condemned to repeat it

Posted by: Bockscar | February 26, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/26/opinion/26brooks.html

Another voice praises the President and some of the members of Congress who spoke, from both parties, but excoriates the Congressional leadership, form both parties. Then he predicts that no health care overhaul bill will reach the Oval Office desk for signature.

Posted by: MoreAndBetterPolls | February 26, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

elijah24


The democrats used the filibuster in the 1960s, then the democrats started up a major use of the filibuster in 95-96 when they lost control the Senate.


Then again, the democrats used the filibuster when they wanted to block Bush's judicial nominations.

OOOOHHHHH I get it now - when the democrats want to use the filibuste, it's OK - but when the Republicans use it, it is a horrible thing.


Your position is a joke, it really is.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse


We now have the AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PRESIDENT -
Obama wants 51 votes to apply to him
When 60 votes applied to every White President.
Obama wants different rules to apply to him.

When will all this silliness end?
Posted by: 37thand0street
-------
You are a racist, ignorant pig. Get out of my country.

Posted by: Richard18 | February 26, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

We now have the AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PRESIDENT -


Obama wants 51 votes to apply to him


When 60 votes applied to every White President.

Obama wants different rules to apply to him.


When will all this silliness end?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 10:18 AM | Report abuse

"I saw this morning that the neither the New York Times or the CNN web site had the Summit as their headline. That's a clear sign of the big defeat Obama suffered yesterday."
==
Do you remember that Jim Carry movie "The Number 23"? For those lucky enough not to have seen it, Jim Carry's character sees the number 23 everywhere. And where he doesn't see the number itself, he sees equations that add up to 23. He thinks that it is a conspiracy, which must be linked to the recent string of murders. *SPOILER ALLERT* In the end he realizes that he is losing his mind and the villain is himself.
It amazes me how Conservatives see "big defeat" for President Obama everywhere they look. And when they don't see defeat for Obama, they see defeat for Democrats. And they assume it must be a conspiracy to destroy America, and think that it is somehow retroactively responsible for the economic catastrophe we have suffered for the last few years. In the end though, there is no conspiracy. Reagenomics has failed. Every man for himself has failed. The people have noticed, and while they may hedge now and then, as they have a little this year, to think that the GOP has the answers, you'd have to be crazier than the Jim Carry character in "The Number 23".

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Doof(us), you have an exquisitively appropriate blog handle. Anyone who watched yesterday and is honest with themselves knows that Obama eviscerated the republicans--particularly those like McCain and Boner who tried to turn it into a campaign debate.

Indeed, McCain never looked so squalid and small and he was quite obvious unhinged when the President in school master fashion put him in the corner like some pi$$y little brat who was intent on disrupting the proceeding. I cannot recall seeing McCain so figitty and frustrated. It is quite apparent that he is still smarting from the raw wound of defeat.

In fact, I think that is the cockleberry that is up the rectal orifice of all these republicans and their rancid, foul masters on the far right. Obama is a constant irritant to the pulsating hemmorhoid that afflicts the collective right wing sphincter.

Posted by: jaxas70 | February 26, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Such the complaints here - no one wants to defend the lies and deceptions of Obama.


Repeat the talking points ?

Well - if my posts were on the other side, you wouldn't be complaining - so the real issue is that you don't like the content, right ???


You have an anti-First Amendment stance, right?


That is unAmerican - your position is only the Obama people are allowed to get their views off.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Bondosan

Where have you been - havent see you posting lately


OR is it that you are all the same person, posting under different names?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

koolkat_1960

Those were budgetary issues.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse


Who do you trust MORE the health insurance industry or your government? Poll

http://www.youpolls.com/default.asp

.

Posted by: usadblake | February 26, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Another day, another 37 posts by 37thandObamaStreet.

Dude, I know the economy is tough, and it's more fun to post right wing gibberish all day than to actually look for a job, but you need to take some action if you're going to get ahead in life.

Maybe you could start by bagging groceries at your local Winn-Dixie. Of course the pay sucks, but think of the tips!

After a few years, they might trust you enough to stock some shelves or even be a cashier yourself (even though check-out is largely becoming a self-serve affair).

Maybe when you've put in 10 or 20 years of dedicated service, you might find yourself deputy assistant manager in the produce section! (A many can dream, can't he?)

C'mon, 37!

.

Pull

.

.
yourself

.

up

.

by

.

your

.


own

.

b

.


o


.


o


.


t

.

s


.

t


.

r


.


a

.


p

.


s
!

Posted by: Bondosan | February 26, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Chris, one would think that you pundits and analysts would learn not to be so premature in your handicapping of these sorts of confrontations. I distinctly remember from the Presidential debates how there was a broad gap between how pundits saw the debates and the public reacted.

I suspect the same is probably true here. As for my part, I honestly do not see how how can make this sweeping asinine comment that this was not the "win" for the President that he was anticipating. Indeed, he may have been the only winner owing to not only his graceful attempt to give everyone an opportunity to have their say, but also his deadly skill at ruthlessly shutting down those who tried to turn the event into just another campaign debate (think John McCain getting justly humiliated for his shoddy performance) and John Boehner's boneheaded effort to get the abortion question reignited.

Look. I get it. You in the media know who butters your toast. At the moment, narratives that celebrate Obama's beyond obvious dominance over the republicans (and for that matter the democrats) do not attract that portion of the audience that surfs back and forth from their favorite Fox News just to see what the liberal press is saying. Narratives that favor the republicans or at the least attempt to put them on equal footing with the Prez are presently the coin of the realm and the most ratings friendly spin.

But, at some point in all of this whatever happens, the republicans are going to have to face the sad, inevitable music of reality on health care in America and it unsustainable trek to a system that only the wealthiest can afford. The very fact that they have thus far been able to avoid that reality is a sorry testament on just how badly you folks in the media have done your job.

Posted by: jaxas70 | February 26, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

I saw this morning that the neither the New York Times or the CNN web site had the Summit as their headline. That's a clear sign of the big defeat Obama suffered yesterday.

Posted by: doof | February 26, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

There is a big difference between cleaning up the abuses of the health insurance companies - and creating a massive government program with massive taxes.

That is Obama's central deception - he is using the abuses of the insurance companies - to justify something very different - creating a government program when regulation could cure those ills.

Obama is taking the country in the wrong direction - and taking needless risks with the financial health of the country.

People in this country are angry with Obama.

The democrats are making a serious mistake if they believe that passing the bill will quell the anger - it will make everyone angrier.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Blarg


Did you complain yesterday when Obama spoke for 119 minutes all by himself when he agreed to split the time equally between Republicans and democrats?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Reconcilation was fine for the Republicans when they rammed through the Bush tax cuts on 51-49 votes, or even worse, 51-50 votes with Darth Cheney casting the deciding votes.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | February 26, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

I see corner. I think I get how this works:
When Democrat wins a sweeping electoral victory, and Democrats win 60 seats in the senate, as well as huge gains in the house, they have a responsibility to placate the opposition party which filibusteres (or Tarantino's) almost every bill that the left presents. In a case like this, the peoples votes don't really mean anything. But when one Senate race goes your way, regardless of a littany of factors, the people have spoken and we had better listen?
When Bill Clinton wins an election the peoples votes dont really mean anything, so we have to discredit him for his sex life which has no tangiable effect on his ability to lead, but when George Bush is declared the winner by the supreme court with a questionable electoral vote lead, and a deficite in the popular vote, the voted of the minority give him not only the title of President, but a mandate to do whatever he thinks is best, even if he has to lie decieve and wage illegal wars to do it.
Is that pretty much how this works? The votes of the people only count if they are cast for Republicans?

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Re topic #3, couldn't that anti-Rubio leak have come from ousted Florida Republican Party Chair Jim Greer? He was squeezed out of the job by an anti-Christ crowd and he would certainly have had that kind of credit card use information at his disposal. I'd say Greer had plenty of motive and the opportunity.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | February 26, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Don't forget that Scott Brown was elected with merely 51% of the vote. Why is he being forced down the throats of Massachusetts residents?

Posted by: DDAWD | February 26, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Never in American History has a President resorted to such LIES AND DECEPTIONS TO GET A BILL THROUGH.

Before Congress, Obama made more commitments which are simply NOT IN THE BILL.

1) Obama said the health care bill would be paid for - it is NOT - it is $3 TRILLION IN THE RED

2) Obama said that illegal aliens would not be covered - LOOK IN THE BILL

3) Obama said that abortion provision in federal law would not be changed - the Senate version throws out the Stupak Amendment

Obama lied in front of Congress in September - it is that simple.

The democrats on here who are defending Obama are defending a liar and a person who has been trying to deceive the country for a year.


This is a DISGRACE


IT IS SHAMEFUL


NOTHING LIKE THIS HAS EVER HAPPENED IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

OBAMA - I HAVE ONE THINK TO TELL YOU - IT IS NOT THE COLOR YOUR SKIN, IT IS THE CONTENT OF YOUR CHARACTER.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Last post in yesterday's thread:
Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 1:41 AM
First post in today's thread:
Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 7:33 AM

That's just sad.

Posted by: Blarg | February 26, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

We need to look at track records before we decide on new ventures. The Department of Energy was instituted on 8/4/77, to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. 32 years later, with a budget of $24.2 billion dollars a year with 16, 000 Federal employees and approximately 100,000 contracted employees
They have managed to move our dependence from 30% when they were formed to 70% today.

The federal government has created bureaucracy after bureaucracy with less than stellar results. However, the same government wants to control banking and the auto industry and are poised to do the
same with our healthcare system. They didn’t get social security right and they created a nightmare of bureaucratic paperwork for Medicare and Medicaid allowing for millions in fraud. What makes you think they can fix healthcare
without the same results.

Posted by: Bockscar | February 26, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/morning-fix/spinning-the-health-care-summi.html

Here's a great chart from Kaiser Family Foundation comparing the provisions in the Senate 2009 bill, the Chafee 1993 bill and the Boehner 2009 bill. As Ezra Klein reported, considering that the Republicans have resisted everything about this bill, it is a pretty Republican bill.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | February 26, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Yesterday was a FRAUD because Obama was pointing at the Republicans - trying to make it appear as if they were not being bipartisan -


WHEN ALL THE TIME OBAMA WAS INTENDING ON BEING PARTISAN -


OBAMA WAS ACTING IN A PARTISAN MANNER THE WHOLE DAY YESTERDAY.

FRAUD.


FRAUD.


FRAUD.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

The lack of honest and truth searching reporting from the press on the HealthCare Summit charade is what worries me.
The pervading dishonesty of the fourth power in America is something that is worrisome for the health of a democracy.

The void is being filled by some Bloggers but one has to admit that their reach is still limited.
Take the case of the blogger's piece that predicted 3 days ahead the exact result and deep meaning of the Healthcare Summit for the future. The piece is called: “Obama’s Way: Pretend It, Demagogue It, Dictate It”. And, “HealthCare Summit - A Stepping Stone Towards 'Reconciliation' ”.

They say, "President Obama's Healthcare Summit is a process for him, is not an end. He will pretend, take the failure that he expects - and desires - and use it to run all the way to 'reconciliation' with it."

All at, http://www.robbingamerica.com

The consequences: “Perhaps, In A Perverse Way, The Best Thing That Can Happen To The Republican Party.”

Posted by: JohnGalt9 | February 26, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Yesterday's supposedly bipartisan effort by Obama was nothing but a FRAUD.


It is unbelievable the attempt at deception.

The American people wants Washington to concentrate on the ECONOMY AND JOBS.

And Obama is obsessed with his ego - obsessed with the election in November.

Obama is not being a a good leader, not doing what the American people need.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 9:23 AM | Report abuse

margaretmeyers


We have told you this before, if you are at work, in a government position, on a government computer, you are breaking the law.


I know you think you know what you are talking about, however the law is the law.

Also your condescending attitude is not appreciated.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

elijah24


You are a victim of group-speak - the democrats may be able to line up the votes - however the reaction from the public in November is going to be severe.

Democrats downticket are going to take it especially hard.


What you are not thinking about is that many districts downticket are much much more competitive than the gerrymandered districts in the House - and the one third of the Senate which is up in this rotation.

The democrats set out to fool the country, and they ended up fooling themselves.

Everything Obama has done has been a complete disaster, a complete mess - if only Obama could fly to Copenhagen then everything will be OK.

There is a certain thing called reality which is simply not in all these "calculations" we are hearing about.


The democrats in the House are not going to drive off the cliff with Obama.


Why Obama wants to hit the accelerator who knows -


One has to remember that Obama tried to jam this health care bill through BASED ON LIES AND DECEPTIONS -


Obama is destroying the democratic party.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Mark, thanks for your point about universal coverage and universal participation. A living, breathing example of just how well universal coverage works is the Federal Employee Health Benefit plan. All Federal employees must participate, all Federal employees within the same plan pay the same premium and the program pays for itself. The result for employees is that we have better coverage AND our premiums cost less.

This is one of the ways those "commies" in England, Canada, France, etc, etc , etc get better coverage at lower cost than we do.

As always, thanks for your brief, intelligent, s i n g l e posts.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | February 26, 2010 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Mark,
If I lived in Austin I would bet you a brisket and Shiner bock that they do pass it, but alas I am in DC getting snowed on,
AGAIN!

Posted by: AndyR3 | February 26, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

There are rumors that Crist will run as an independent to try and save himself. I still don't see how he can win even if he does that. Crist is toast. The Tea Party has a big win here.

Posted by: doof | February 26, 2010 9:10 AM | Report abuse

The summit accomplished its intended goal: To show that Obama and the Dems are making a good faith effort to get Republican input, but the Republicans don't want to contribute, only kill the bill. Now everyone has seen with their own eyes that Republicans are truly the Party of No.

Now, the Dems can move forward, having already incorporated so-called Republican ideas long ago in the Senate bill and pass the compromise through reconciliation.

Posted by: Pupster | February 26, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

elijah24


1) Let me translate: when the focus grouped talking points are fed back to the polls, the democrats deceive themselves into believing that there is more support in America than there is.

2) The filibuster seemed to be OK by the democrats in the 1960s, in the 90s when they lost the majority, and when the democrats were blocking Bush's judicial nominations.


The filibuster has generally been a tool used by the democrats.


The hypocrisy, the lies, the deceptions surrounding this bill have been unbelievable.

YES, THE DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING TO IMPOSE THIS BILL ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGAINST THEIR WILL.


That is NOT what our government is about - it is a different form of government which is getting IMPOSED on the People.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Mark, To answer your other question, Yes I think the democrats will pass the presidents plan with a few changes added to provide political cover and to make the bill more palatable to the moderate democrats in Congress. They will pass it through reconcilliation, which will be a story for all of 3 days, and then the public will be back to talking about Killer Whales, March Madness brackets, etc.

Posted by: AndyR3 | February 26, 2010 8:58 AM

Your predictions are worthless. Why don't you tell us again about the unemployment rate going down .2% each month?

Posted by: doof | February 26, 2010 9:07 AM | Report abuse

"Health care was settled with the election in Massachusetts."
==
Corner, I'm curious: Is EVERYTHING black and white in conservativeland?
Fact: Martha Coakley ran a miserable campaign in which she showed the people of Massachusetts that she thought that future HOF'er Curt Schilling, who was a key leader in the Red Sox first World Series since Babe Ruth was there, was a YANKEE!
Fact: She practically ignored voters who were accustomed to seeing their senators (especially the one she was trying to replace) among the people every year. Especially in campaign years, in spite of the fact that neither of them was in any danger of losing. For her to ignore them simply insulted them. As pay-back, the moderates voted for her opponent, and many of the liberals simply stayed home.
Fact: Mass already has a government-funded health-care plan. Most of them like it.
Fact Scott Brown ran a good campaign, in which he was well-funded.

Your reduction of this race to nothing more than a referendum on health-care, ignores, or worse, denies all of these facts. It also gives no credit to Senator Brown himself, either as a credible candidate, or as a man worthy of his post.
I don't think Mass. had anything to do with a condemnation of the Health-Care plan, but even if I did, I certainly wouldn't be so narrow minded as to say that that is all it was about.

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 9:06 AM | Report abuse

On #3 the FL senate primary is going to be a blood bath. They are already throwing accusations and leaks at each other, and I wonder how long it takes before Rubio's team fires back.
Then the real quesiton is how hard does he fire back? There have been accusations in the past about Governor Crist sexual orientation, which have never been substantiated, but I wonder if Rubio throws caution to the wind and takes that line of attack.

Posted by: AndyR3 | February 26, 2010 9:06 AM | Report abuse

There will be no reconciliation on health care. The democrats are bluffing. Poll numbers of 52 to 39 against it says it all. How dumb could the democrats be?

Posted by: doof | February 26, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

I meant, if I did not clearly state, that D failure to pass a bill into law would ultimately hurt them in November.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | February 26, 2010 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Andy, blert, and StreetCorner -

I would bet against passage. I think that would not help Ds, at all, because it would kill enthusiasm on that side.

Andy, striking a happy medium to please Europe is not in the cards, for sure.

And someone suggested that there has been polling on the popularity of passage of parts of a bill through Reconciliation. That has got to be downright silly. No one will even know or remember which details were reconciled. COBRA? OBRA? I have lived too long to believe that Americans outside this blog have a clue about something as purely parliamentary as the reconciliation process.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | February 26, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Mark, To answer your other question, Yes I think the democrats will pass the presidents plan with a few changes added to provide political cover and to make the bill more palatable to the moderate democrats in Congress. They will pass it through reconcilliation, which will be a story for all of 3 days, and then the public will be back to talking about Killer Whales, March Madness brackets, etc.
The liberals will moan but in the end the President will pull them in and say if you don't vote for this we won't be able to pass ANYTHING for the rest of the congress, and come November you won't be in power anymore. This is a high stakes game of poker and the Democrats don't have enough chips left to not go all in.

37th, this statement "ONLY THING that has been proven to reduce costs in health care is TORT REFORM." is not true, since Tort reform has never been done in the healthcare industry period. That being said I wouldn't be suprised if Obama throws it on the final bill in a weakened form to provide political cover for moderate Democrats who vote for the bill.

BTW, I predict you will see a completed bill signed by the president in 4 weeks time, and look for the White House to own this latest version.

Posted by: AndyR3 | February 26, 2010 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Why should the moderate democrats follow Obama down this path of destruction?


Obama's far-left agenda has been the problem all along.


The problem is clear: Because the democrats are stuck with the Senate bill, they are restricted in their negotiations - this is a bill that is not a product of negotiations - but an accident of process - with no real agreement on the provisions of the bill - even among democrats.

The House has to swallow that the normal reconciliation process between House and Senate is getting thrown out the window - in favor of a "fix" bill which has to be restricted to budgetary items.

This bill is going to be a mess - will it even hold together from a practical point of view.

At this point we have a bunch of egotistical idiots running the country - completely destroying their own party - and driving the country towards bankruptcy.


That is what you get when you elect a guy with no economic or business experience except for buying cocaine.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

"It is not "leadership" for Democrats to force such a unpopular piece of legislation unto the public. "

A few points here, Johnny.
1.It is unpopular when it is presented as "government takeover", but when the elements of the bill are explained to people, they consistently love it. You can choose to believe what you want, but to ignore every poll in which the bill is explained in detail (not to mention the election in which Barack Obama and a ton of Dems swept into congress campaigning on health-care) is simply dishonest.
2. Leadership is done by the majority. Our country is not supposed to be run by minority-rule. We are not an oligarchy. We are a republic. The majority of our country declared that they wanted Democrats to represent them in Congress and the White House. To accuse the majority, chosen by the people, of doing anything wrong, because they have a 56% majority instead of a 60% majority, only shows that you never mastered the whole >, < thing.

Posted by: elijah24 | February 26, 2010 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Mark thanks for article. That is an interesting read, although I most say that I am a little ticked at this line,

"Much foreign criticism is focused on President Obama. "Mr. Obama should look harder at his own use of his presidential power," The Economist editorialized."

These are the same people who hated GW Bush for overreaching his presidential authority just 4 years ago. Obama has a fundamental different view of what the President's role in our INTERNAL matters should be. I think he believes that the president is the final say in international matters but on the home front it is the Congress's job to do these types of things. This is an argument that goes back to Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, and Madison and their discussions (and arguments) on the role of the executive branch in our governement. And frankly the Europeans are the definition of disfunction and lack of go-to spirit partly due to the fact that they have a parlimentary system and not a strong federal representative republic form of government like we do.

Posted by: AndyR3 | February 26, 2010 8:44 AM | Report abuse

AndyR3 and Mark_in_Austin


Everyone knows that the ONLY THING that has been proven to reduce costs in health care is TORT REFORM.

It is an INCONVENIENT FACT for the democrats.


And I repeat - the only way the CBO numbers state that premiums go down is if one takes out the SUBSIDIES - however the subsidies have to be paid for somehow - add those subsidies back IN, and premiums go up.

Obama is trying to fool you.

The lies and deceptions around this bill have been incredible - like nothing else in American history.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 8:44 AM | Report abuse

mark_in_austin


Do you think it will pass? with the calculation you offer?

Call the moderate democrats in the House and ask them. - Talk to the staffs.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 8:38 AM | Report abuse

FedUp1


Health care was settled with the election in Massachusetts.

Call your pal Obama and tell him Enough !

Who are you trying to kid, you fool


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Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 8:34 AM | Report abuse

FedUp1


You don't like the truth, do you?


The democrats don't like being exposed do they?

You know, I didn't see the complaints about posting when the Obama people were posting everything they have done in the past - so don't try to say that I am doing anything that the Obama people haven't done - that is called hypocrisy.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 8:31 AM | Report abuse

Andy, if I was not clear, after reading Reid I think there will not be serious cost containment without UHC first and I agree with the auto liability insurance analogy.

There is already a nod to medmal reform in the SB. I do not have time to look up the cite and link it now; sorry.

My question to you - do you think the Ds will actually pass this, now? The CD elections are so local, but the impact of the appearance of dysfunction is so potentially great. You will appreciate this link, I think:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congressdaily/wha_20100225_9363.php

Posted by: mark_in_austin | February 26, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Obama's main problem is he wants to pretend this health care program does NOT cost anything.

Obama said in his address to Congress in September that the program would be fully paid for.

THIS IS TURNING OUT TO BE A COMPLETE LIE.

Go through Obama's speech to Congress in September, the lies in there will cause your eyes to pop out.

The democrats tried to sell the American People a health care bill - and the democrats were telling the country a BUNCH OF LIES THE WHOLE TIME.


Mark_in_Austin - I challenge you to go back and read the text of Obama's speech to Congress in September.


Compare them to what we know now.


The Stupak Amendment and all the abortion commitments have been tossed aside - and that shows an EXTREME AMOUNT OF BAD FAITH.


Just wait for this country to HEAR ABOUT THE ILLEGAL ALIENS WHO ARE COVERED BY OBAMA'S HEALTH CARE BILL.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 8:27 AM | Report abuse

37thand0street: You made five posts in rapid succession. Enough!

Cilliza: I feel you mischaracterized the summit.

Posted by: FedUp1 | February 26, 2010 8:24 AM | Report abuse

You hit the nail pretty much on the head, mark, with that post. The health care vote will be a tough one for a lot of legislators, and most of all for Democrats. On their left, most of them face progressives who are rabidly vocal and who want a single-payer plan. Some are willing to swallow the Senate bill with the understanding that it will lead to single-payer in a decade or two, but others are aghast that the Senate bill more or less writes into law everything that's bad about the insurance industry right now.

Meanwhile, Democrats also face mainstream liberals who will not be happy if nothing at all passes.

Meanwhile, they also have to keep an eye on independents, who are increasingly leaning conservative. If the middle third of the political spectrum is going to lash out negatively over a yes vote on health care, then a lot of Democrats may flinch because there are very few districts in the country liberal enough to carry someone without independent voters.

And this whole election calculus has to be done months in advance of the actual elections, so who knows what is going to happen? I'm curious, though, to see how many Democrats, especially House freshman who came in with Obama, are going to hang their congressional careers on this single vote. Some might face a decided fate no matter how they vote, but for others, this health care vote may actually determine whether or not they are reelected.

And neither side is going to accept a vote of "present" on this one.

Posted by: blert | February 26, 2010 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Mark,
I agree with your four points you make but I would say that although lowering medical costs may be theoritically possible without UHC it is, IMO, practically IMPOSSIBLE.

To lower costs the entire public (or the governemnt) has to force the entire industry to lower costs, but as long as approxametely 20% of the citizens of our country are not insured that pressure will not exist to make that a reality. Car insurance has become more and more efficent and cheaper through statewide mandates (inflattion corrected) because you have groups like Esurance and Progressive who lower their overhead by centralizing their operation. Then people like me have to decide do I want cheaper rates with poorer service over a phone, or pay a little more so that I have an actual agent who I can talk to?

The same thing is possible in healthcare, but one thing will have to happen, which the GOP pointed out and that is to allow insurers to work over statelines. But as the dems retorted, to do that you have to have a federal minimum mandate to equalize the playing field. I think you will see this change put into the final bill as an olive branch to republicans and as political cover. There also may be an addition of Tort Reform, but it will be weaker than what the GOP wants. If the Dems do that they can sell to the public that they listened to their collegues and included the ideas that they thought were good even if the GOP won't vote for the bill. In that scenario they will look like the adults and the GOP will look like stuborn children who really are saying 'no' to any attempt at agreement.

Posted by: AndyR3 | February 26, 2010 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Mark


The democratic Congressmen - including serveral who have appeared on MSNBC - when asked about "cost containment" admitted that this health care bill has virtually NOTHING in the area of cost containment.

The truth of the matter is that Obama says the program will cost $950,000,000,000.00 - however if one matches up years - eliminates ONE ACCOUNTING TRICK - the cost ballons to $3 Trillion.


This is ALL UNFUNDED.

The nightmare which is slowly beginning to sink in is that Obama is going to try to stick much of these costs on the STATES - in the form of unfunded mandates

So the costs are going to end up in your STATE TAXES.


What are you going to do when 20 states are nearly bankrupt and Obama has the Federal government in a permanent Trillion dollar deficit ???


The numbers are NOT there.


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OK - there is a new market or exchange - that is mostly window dressing -


The reason the exchanges do little is because they do NOTHING to contain the underlying costs - no matter what kind of bidding or competition that takes place on the exchanges, the underlying costs are still going to govern the general range of the cost of policies.

What has happened is "cost containment" is a talking point which came out of Obama's focus groups - and it is in the discussion - but there is almost nothing in the bill.


WHAT BROKE OUT YESTERDAY - was a discussion about whether premiums would go up or down.


>>> what came out this morning is that Alexander was talking about premiums which are available to the general public.


>>>> only when one AVERAGES in the subsidies which Obama wants to give do the average premiums go down.

The problem with that calculation - is the subsidies have to be FUNDED SOMEHOW - so to say that the SUBSIDY DOES NOT COUNT IN THE COST OF THE PREMIUM is not accurate,


It is actually deceitful.

Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 8:17 AM | Report abuse

We are supposed to be talking about the ECONOMY AND JOBS - WHICH IS WHAT THE COUNTRY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING ALL LAST YEAR.

Obama simply doesn't get it.

Last month, the country was relieved when it looked like the federal government was FINALLY GOING TO FOCUS ON THE ECONOMY.

Instead, Obama has everyone talking about health care again.

What a joke - Obama is a complete idiot. We have an ego-driven idiot running the agenda of the country - and this is not the time to do this.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 8:05 AM | Report abuse

The democrats - especially in the House - have to start looking at the EXTENSIVE DAMAGE OBAMA IS DOING TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.


Obama is really destroying the party.

The amount of downticket races which are now at severe risk on account of Obama's ego is staggering.

The democrats are not lemmings.

Obama wants the democrats to get in the car with him as he drives it off a cliff - the election is only 8 months away and it is difficult to see the views around the country changing - views which have hardened since the election of Scott Brown.

Obama is dragging the party down - I simply can not come up with an example from American History to compare.

Because there has been NO AMERICAN PRESIDENT WHO WOULD TAKE SUCH A STUPID COURSE OF ACTION - FILLED WITH HYPOCRISY AND DECEIT.

The American People are watching Obama - only getting angrier.

Obama is creating a real disaster for the democratic party - and the democrats have only themselves to blame for voting for someone with such obvious inexperience and lack of executive knowledge.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 8:02 AM | Report abuse

Between soundbites and among talking points, there was a lot of information offered yesterday. For me the focus of the philosophical debate came down to this:

1] It is actuarially true that the pool must include all the young, healthy uninsured in order to pay for the individuals with preexisting conditions;

2] mandating that everyone be covered is anti-libertarian although not unfamiliar - every state mandates auto liability insurance. The Rs see the distinction between self-insurance and liability insurance as one with a difference, while the Ds do not; and

3] mandating that everyone be covered will require subsidies or expanded Medicaid, and Medicaid is the single most broken part of the budget and of federally funded health care, now; but

4] med costs have doubled every decade and must be contained or the nation will go bankrupt, publicly and personally, family by family [the point of agreement].

I did not hear anyone make the point that the journalist T.R. Reid has evidenced: no country has taken control of health care costs without first universalizing access. I suspect that is because, in good faith, many opponents of UHC think, as I once did, that if it is theoretically possible to attack underlying costs without UHC it is practically possible.

The net result is that few, if any, Rs can support UHC, and for most of them it is a good faith philosophical hurdle. Further, the Ds will have to weigh the political cost of failure to do anything in a midterm election year. The calculus comes down to each CD and each Representative's sense of her/his own fate, as tied to the vote.

This will be a very close call, indeed.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | February 26, 2010 8:01 AM | Report abuse

The bottom line is that the summit accomplished little legislatively, but it did frame the arguments of both sides in the clearest terms possible.

Obama and the Dems are accusing the Republicans of siding with the insurance companies and ignoring the uninsured and those struggling with bills. The GOP still insists this is a government takeover and that taxes and premiums are going up, despite what the CBO says.

It's up to Americans to decide who is right.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Posted by: parkerfl1 | February 26, 2010 7:53 AM | Report abuse

The records - the history - clearly shows that the first major increase in the filibuster was in the 1960s - by the DEMOCRATS - when they used it against the blacks to delay Civil Rights legislation.


Then the next major increase in the use of the filibuster was in 1995-96 - when the DEMOCRATS lost control of the Senate and they used the filibuster to block Republican actions.

THEN the next major use of the filibuster was when the DEMOCRATS used the filibuster to stop Bush's judicial nominations - holding up scores of nominations.


What we have been hearing over the past few weeks has been the biggest exercise in hypocrisy in American history (except for Obama's first year in office compared to his campaign platform.)


Seriously, the next thing we are going to start hearing is the democrats want to dismantle the Capitol Building itself - the system of checks and balances we have.

Harry Reid knows full well the democrats are going to be soon on the other side of the 51 votes -

Reid wants to hold onto the filibuster for next year - wisely. Unbelievably, it is the democrats who are NOT in the Senate who are pressing this nuclear option - again hurting their own party.


The democrats really have to start to look at the DAMAGE TO THEIR OWN PARTY.

IF Obama starts to force the democrats to take votes when clearly the American People do NOT want this bill, Obama will DRAG his party down to a place where it will be extremely difficult to recover.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 7:52 AM | Report abuse

The aspect which the American People will realize over the weekend is that for Obama this was NOT a summit aimed at bipartisanship.

AT NO POINT did Obama offer COMPROMISE - offer to meet the Republicans in MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN THE TWO POSITIONS.

Every American can see there is a deal in the mix - and every American saw Obama visibly get angry when anyone suggested that he COMPROMISE - however that is what Obama called the meeting to just do - COMPROMISE.

The American People can see this.

Obama has backed himself into a central contraction - to be nice - a deceitful act is probably more precise. The American People are the ones who are going to be angry.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 7:39 AM | Report abuse

Amazing that the administration wants the polling to come back before they say whether they did well or not -


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Posted by: 37thand0street | February 26, 2010 7:33 AM | Report abuse

The question the media won't ask Obama or the Democrats: what did you learn from the summit? What Republican ideas do you intend to include in the bill?

If they weren't listening and don't intend to include any Republican ideas, then this was just a stunt. Republicans should grow a backbone and stand up to Obama.

His administration looks increasingly amateurish.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | February 26, 2010 7:30 AM | Report abuse

It is not "leadership" for Democrats to force such a unpopular piece of legislation unto the public. Proving they have 51% of Congress on this only shows they can do rudimentry math, but aren't wise enough to lead. While I don't think the votes are there, if this passes, Republicans will have a great opening to "clean out" Washington for the next few elections. Obama gets poor grades for allowing him and his party to get in this situation.

Posted by: JohnnyGee | February 26, 2010 7:08 AM | Report abuse

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