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The Most Important Number in Politics Today

54

That's the percentage of voters who said that the more they learn about President Barack Obama's health care plan, the less they like it, according to a new Washington Post/ABC News poll.

Among independents -- a critical voting bloc where the president has lost ground since the election -- the numbers are even more glum. Fifty-seven percent of self-described independents like the plan less the more they hear about it as compared to just 36 percent who like it more.

Independent men are strongly opposed to the plan with six in ten (61 percent) saying they like it less the more they know about it. Independent women are more divided on the question with 53 percent liking the legislation less the more they find out about it and 42 percent liking it more.

These numbers paint a grim picture for a White House who has staked much on the idea that the more people find out about the bill, the more they will support it.

The President's speech last week to Congress was heavy on laying out exactly what the legislation would and, more importantly, wouldn't do. Democrats spent much of the days following the address touting poll numbers that showed the American people growing increasingly positive toward the bill.

But, this data tells a very different story. Whether it is the misinformation -- and there is A LOT of it out there -- that people in the Post poll are reacting to or whether it is the actual proposals put forward by Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress is impossible to know and, from a political perspective, unimportant.

If the path to success for Obama is not via educating voters about what is and isn't in the plan, it's hard to see what the path might be.

By Chris Cillizza  |  September 14, 2009; 1:00 PM ET
Categories:  Most Important Number  
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Comments

Anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD | September 17, 2009 7:17 PM | Report abuse

"I'm not going to say it again."

He keeps saying that.

But its ok, because I think his original complete and unedited comment says everything that needs saying. I'm copying it below along with a link so "lurkers" can decide for themselves what the troll meant to say.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I'm praying that he doesn't survive the anesthesia.

Posted by: JakeD | September 10, 2009 4:04 PM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/morning-fix/morning-fix.html

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Again, that's what he wrote, all he wrote, as he wrote it. Check the link if he tries to convince you otherwise.

Posted by: nodebris | September 16, 2009 11:51 PM | Report abuse

I am not trying to fool anyone, but there is no "falsehood" therefore no "heresy" -- for the last time, I prayed Part E, but I also prayed Parts A-D (and continue to do so) -- I'm not going to say it again. If anyone else besides GoldAndTanzanite or nodebris wants to discuss, please email me.

Posted by: JakeD | September 16, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Next he's going to argue that he had his fingers crossed when he posted it. Or that he didn't preface it with "Simon Says."

What a "Christian."

==

Using scriptural claims to cover a falsehood is actually a formal heresy, if he claims to be a believing Christian (which we have to presume a lie given who's making the claim) then he can expect to burn in Hell for eternity.

But here in this world he's worth less than what we scrape off shoe bottoms. That "prayer" thing wouldn't fool a six-year-old.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 16, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

nodebris:

I am not denying that I prayed Part E. Not sure why you keep insinuating that I am. As I said, any lurker(s) can email me if my explanation is unsatisfactory to them.

Posted by: JakeD | September 16, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Next he's going to argue that he had his fingers crossed when he posted it. Or that he didn't preface it with "Simon Says."

What a "Christian."

Posted by: nodebris | September 16, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Lurkers will note that I never would call GoldAndTanzanite / chrisfox8 "garbage" (or "racist swine", but that's another topic) since Jesus Christ died on the Cross because of his sins too -- for God so loved the world, that He gave his only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life -- Part E was not the entire prayer, which I still pray Parts A-D so that the Holy Spirit will break through his hardened heart.

Posted by: JakeD | September 16, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

I never disputed that was the entire quote -- it is not the entire prayer though

==

I'm praying that he doesn't survive the anesthesia.

Posted by: JakeD | September 10, 2009 4:04 PM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/morning-fix/morning-fix.html

==

That is the entire post. And the entire "prayer."

You are garbage, JakeD.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 16, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JakeD | September 16, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Lurkers:

I never disputed that was the entire quote -- it is not the entire prayer though -- that's what I am pointing out, that several here are only focusing on the last part of said prayer. For instance, I prayed A, B, C, D, and E (if it is God's Will), but only posted Part E at 10:28 PM.

Gov. Palin also never had an exorcism. The only claim is that a former pastor of hers has conducted exorcisms on others. We all know that it doesn't matter what former pastors say or do anymore ; )

If you have any questions still, please email me:

jaked832@gmail.com

Posted by: JakeD | September 16, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

The previous quote is exact and entire; I post the link so anyone can confirm.

==

Don't worry he isn't fooling anyone

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 15, 2009 11:10 PM | Report abuse

People who believe in supernatural causes? If young, they go trick-or-treating on Halloween.

Boo!

If not young, they do stupid rituals with candles, troll online blogs, and vote Republican, assuming they've managed to stay out of the loonie bin.

No wonder JD salivates over Palin. She had an exorcism. What a nitwit.

Supernatural erosion. Every day on the farm ...

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 15, 2009 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Oh what tangled webs we weave
When first we practice to deceive.

Posted by: nodebris | September 15, 2009 10:43 PM | Report abuse

The previous quote is exact and entire; I post the link so anyone can confirm.

Posted by: nodebris | September 15, 2009 10:29 PM | Report abuse

I'm praying that he doesn't survive the anesthesia.

Posted by: JakeD | September 10, 2009 4:04 PM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/morning-fix/morning-fix.html

Posted by: nodebris | September 15, 2009 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Assuming, for the sake of argument (that's still allowed, right?) that supernatural causes produced differing erosion rates, no one is saying it couldn't happen that way. Atheists, like GoldAndTanzanite (fka "chrisfox8" who was banned for name-calling) simply say that supernatural causes are not possible.

Posted by: JakeD | September 15, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

none of said “evidence” takes into account supernatural causes which could easy produce differing erosion rates

==

In case anyone was ever wondering, this is an example of what we call "removing all doubt"

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 15, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

It seems that you have all been quite busy while I was golfing -- I doubt that DDAWD is pleased that the entire thread since I've been gone has been about me and whether our gracious host reads and/or approves of my posts -- not that it's related in any way to "The Most Important Number in Politics Today" or Yesterday, for that matter, but I am still happy to respond.

# 1. I do not think that the moon is any closer to the earth -- currently at least -- than 225,622 miles, and that is further than I can reach myself. I did not have to personally travel to the moon and back to believe that, although that would have been cool to do. Sadly, I am also the only "Spellchecker" before I post – I sometimes miss my secretary but enjoy retirement too much -- which is why there are so many typos (you try typing as much as I do here -- although much less than "a third of all posts" -- with no mistakes ; )

# 2. Moving from the moon to "evidence" that the earth is older than 10,000 years, I would be more than happy to discuss (as long as you answer my questions in a civil manner too). Bottom line, none of said “evidence” takes into account supernatural causes which could easy produce differing erosion rates or an apparent alternation between calcite seas and aragonite seas (the main objections I've seen to a sudden, global flood event, for instance) as well as the "mistaken age" of fossils, radiocarbon dating, etc. That's what I was pointing out on the other thread.

# 3. One last time re: my prayer for GoldAndTanzanite / chrisfox8 -- as I already stated on the prior thread -- I do not "wish", "hope", "want" (or any other expression of personal preference) that ANYONE including him for "[NOT] ignoring me" should die before accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (John 3:16). Although I have never posted the entire prayer – no one has asked -- that hasn't stopped some of you from latching onto only one small part of it. Theologically speaking, however, it would indeed be better for ANYONE repenting from an atheist, bi-sexual sinful lifestyle to immediately die peacefully in his sleep rather than come back here and continue to sin. That's all I meant, and it is theologically sound, whether you care to believe it or not makes no matter to me. I guess it should not surprise me that no one wants to actually discuss that though. Kinda like Dems all upset about Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst, disregarding the underlying fact that pResident Obama did "lie".

I am back now, obviously, for the evening and -- if anyone besides “mtcooley” or "nodebris" is left -- more than happy to defend any of my statements.

Posted by: JakeD | September 15, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

I graded papers as a TA when I was getting my Geology degree that was riddled with side margin notes about how they would pray for my soul (I'm a Christian too but I'm not stupid), and how evil I was for making them lie about the age of the earth to pass a test.

==

You DID flunk them, didn't you?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 15, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

He reads enough to know who's who. He claims to care about the tone and tenor of the comments. I'm sure plenty of people reported Jake's death prayer. Nobody can stand Jake, everyone despises him, yet he is allowed to remain and troll while I got banned for accurately calling him a racist.

The imbalance is at least as glaring as the GOP boosterism.

I came to WaPo for Froomkin and Dionne. CC used to be a great reporter which means that there is still a great reporter in his head. But it doesn't show here anymore.

And he's apparently fine with letting JakeD use his blog as a personal playground to answer his therapeutic needs.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 15, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

I think CC reads his comments but rarely.

Posted by: nodebris | September 15, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

And ChrisC sanctions this racist swine

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 15, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

And to top it off, he thinks he's slick.

Posted by: nodebris | September 15, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

It's really a challenge to people with minds and lives and education to believe that there are people like JakeD out there in the world. The mind wants to reject the information, does not compute, does not cohere.

Someone so stupid that he thinks the moon is just barely out of reach of his hand.

Someone so insecure he needs to do followup posts to blame his typos on the "spellchecker."

Someone so sick and twisted he wishes death on a fellow poster for ignoring him.

Someone so compulsive he does a third of the posts here and in every way possible tries to be annoying.

The mind simply rejects there. There aren't REALLY people like that, are there?

Is anyone REALLY this stupid and swinish?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 15, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

It's not worth it. He's proving what a moron he actually is. Saying no one knows is the stupid man's way of preserving himself from the strain of thinking and new ideas. Or he's a bloody creationist to which I say nuts to that. I'm tired of dealing with them and how blindly they cling to the Bible as unquestionable fact. Which is totally what he's beating around the bush saying. It's pretty much the standard line. "You and I don't know what it was like" Well fortunately I'm intelligent enough to know how the Earth works. Sad to see he's not.

I mean exponential decay, formation processes, math, that stuff is obviously too suspect. We can only believe what we see.

And lo' I see him saying he hopes someone dies. Very very becoming.

Posted by: mtcooley | September 15, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

A very sorry sight, indeed.

Posted by: nodebris | September 15, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Already defended it (repeatedly) on the link you provided -- I will also be happy to answer any questions about it here from those who answer my questions as well, when I return tonight -- don't worry, I'm not leaving permanently.

Posted by: JakeD | September 15, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

It's a pretty sorry sight when someone doesn't have the guts to either retract or defend his own statements.

Posted by: nodebris | September 15, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I didn't say I "know" the earth is less than 10,000 years old -- I specifically said that neither of us "know" for sure -- just like I didn't say that I "wish you would die". Thankfully, I won't have to keep repeating that over and over since I do have a "life" (and an early tee time ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 15, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

>>this is what passes for intelligence on the right

You'd have been shocked at how pervasive that thought process would be. I graded papers as a TA when I was getting my Geology degree that was riddled with side margin notes about how they would pray for my soul (I'm a Christian too but I'm not stupid), and how evil I was for making them lie about the age of the earth to pass a test. Honestly it really breaks my heart to see that stupidity abounds and people actually think the Earth isn't billions of years old. It's not even ignorance, it's just downright stupidity. There are a multitude of ways to show the earth is far older than 10k years.

I just end up pitying them. Can't pity him though with that whole 'wish you would die' quote though. He's a disgusting and hate filled person that doesn't have a place here.

Posted by: mtcooley | September 15, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Jeez, doesn't JakeD have a life?..JakeD are you paid to be on the Washington Post blog comment section all the time?, don't you have family, a life, other things do?Wow..

Posted by: ruraledcomm | September 14, 2009 10:00 PM | Report abuse

And if Rasmussen is calling a 7% bounce, you should probably double it.

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 8:49 PM | Report abuse

It's nice that the Fix is showing loyalty to his employer, but 538, of course, parses the *three* polls done since the President's speech and sees a rather bigger "bounce" than 1%. 538 also links to the Rasmussen (7%) and CBS/NY Times (12%) polls.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/09/bounce-yes-game-changer-well-see.html

Posted by: margaretmeyers | September 14, 2009 8:32 PM | Report abuse

Yep, and you are still "ignoring" me ...

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 8:13 PM | Report abuse

Neither of us were around 10,000 years ago to know for sure, right?

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 7:58 PM

==

this is what passes for intelligence on the right

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 8:12 PM | Report abuse

Well, GoldAndTanzanite, I may be old, but not that old. Neither of us were around 10,000 years ago to know for sure, right?

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Unless, of course, the earth IS less than 10,000 years old.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 1:15 AM

==

this is what passes for intelligence on the right

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 7:54 PM | Report abuse

Like snowbama said, that is what passes for intelligence among the left.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse

Just vomit on the sidewalk, DDAWD, don't step in it and don't look any longer than it takes to step around it. And walk on.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD:

You're one to talk, telling everyone to NOT debate me.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

Ho hum, still too frightened to engage someone in actual debate, snobama? I know, I know. Facts and logic are the evil tools of da libz.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 14, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

I think he's on the senior side of the child syndrome, dawd. You know, senility.

Posted by: drindl | September 14, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

What I learned today:

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a shrink yesterday about psychopaths - drindl has regular meetings with shrinks, and has years to go. not making expected progress.

>>>>

I've got a modicum of intelligence .. DDAWD overestimates his abilities

>>>>>>>>

a wish that another poster dies during a medical procedure

apparently, chris fox has attempted to have a brain implanted, with dissappointing results.

>>>>>>>>

anyone who disagrees with rampant socialism is a racist, but especially JakeD

CC - are you still the guy in charge of snow cones or have you been promoted to ticket sales.

Posted by: snowbama | September 14, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

"Now he's just having conversations witb himself, addressing an alter-ego called "lurkers."

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 6:53 PM

"That was your post in entirety, JakeD."

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 5:35 PM

"Opinions are not germane to the discussion. Jake, you read that I was scheduled for surgery and you posted that you pray I die during the procedure. That's the facts.

You can take all the dodges that delight the turbo-charged tedium of your empty life, equivocate over wording or go into some bright-eyed supernatural BS about lord and savior but the fact of the matter is that you were hoping that I would die on the operating table last Friday.

You are a sick and morally repulsive human being."

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 5:14 PM

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Maybe two (or more) people are sharing "GoldAndTanzanite" login / password, then, because SOMEONE specifically addressed me as "JakeD" (usually it's just derogatory name-calling like "racist swine" or "troll"). I am not ruling out "scrivener50" finally infiltrating the National Directed Energy Weapons headquarters and hacking into WaPo himself ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 7:02 PM | Report abuse

I read from the bottom up and yeah why bother reading his posts or zouk's. PffftMainly it was the whole back and forth for pages I hated more than anything else. That seems to have stopped.

==

Oh yeah that is completely gone. Now he's just having conversations witb himself, addressing an alter-ego called "lurkers."

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

You're right, G+T. Mainly it was the whole back and forth for pages I hated more than anything else. That seems to have stopped. It would be nice to have had a total ignore just so I could say "I told you so" when he left, but the way things are now isn't all that bad. I typically just scroll up past his posts. I'm really only aware of anything he says from the responses to them.

I'm not sure if Chris C is going to ban him, though. jaked has been doing this for quite a while now. Chris C seems to be cool with it.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 14, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

So, even if I get banned, I will just come back under a different name like you did, chrisfox8.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

It's all about attention. That's how I know he would leave if we all had just stuck to the ignoring him thing.

==

It is working, and it will succeed, just not in the way you were thinking.

He'll never give up and leave. He enjoys seeing his own posts mixed in with the discussion and the fact that nobody takes the bait for days at a time only bugs him a little.

And there will always be someone who responds, usually sad to say someone who knows better.

But it only takes one day of being ignored before he starts upping the ante with more outrageous stuff, and he goes way over the line with something like a pray-you-die post.

At some point it'll become even more glaringly wrong than Palin 2012 and ChrisC will just have to smell the coffee and ban the idiot.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Too bad, DDAWD, you couldn't keep them in line, huh? Like I said, maybe it was the pain meds that put CF8 over the edge. Nice try though : )

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

"I was talking to a friend of mine who is a shrink yesterday about psychopaths. He was talking about how their brains function differently than normal, that they are born, not made. He said one of the main characteristics was an inability to feel shame or remorse.

Posted by: drindl"

Plus I think the anonymity of the internet sort of encourages this behavior. Most people on here are older and didn't grow up with it and so still think of the other people on here as actual human beings. I'm not sure how old jaked is, but I'm guessing like 16 or 17, so he's more accustomed to the anonymity. Plus he's at that age where he feels the need to "get away" with something which also fuels this behavior. Oooh, look at me. I'm making racist comments and getting away with it!

It's all about attention. That's how I know he would leave if we all had just stuck to the ignoring him thing.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 14, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Very funny Jake. You've been posting on this thread all afternoon and your last "on-topic" post was at 2:16.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 14, 2009 6:08 PM | Report abuse

So just to make sure I'm all clear here on the rules and decorum here.

If another poster is doing racist rants, calling him a racist is worth getting banned for. It's name-calling, and that's against the rules. The accuracy is not relevant.

But issuing a wish that another poster dies during a medical procedure, we're cool with that, right? It doesn't need a reason, we can just fire off any ol' "hope you get cancer" sort of uh prayer apropos of nothing and rest assured that we're well within the guidelines and we're good solid citizens of TheFix.

Just wanted to be sure. Now if you'll excuse me I need to compose some excruciatingly gruesome medical wishes for other posters whose politics I don't like.

But don't worry.

No *name-calling*

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else, on the thread topic?

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a shrink yesterday about psychopaths. He was talking about how their brains function differently than normal, that they are born, not made. He said one of the main characteristics was an inability to feel shame or remorse.

Posted by: drindl | September 14, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Funny too, that you can just say 'the troll' and everyone knows who you are talking about.

Posted by: drindl | September 14, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

I'm impressed by the utter lack of shame.

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Yes, the troll is one of the most disgusting creatures i've run into online -- and that's sayng a lot. Aside from just being booooring. What a mindless twit.

Posted by: drindl | September 14, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

That was your post in entirety, JakeD.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

"If you liberals are so smart, defeat him with debate, reason, intelligence and wit. the actual problem is that you do not operate in this venue, you prefer insult, name-calling,"

Says the guy who constantly says "Libs do this, libs do that"

If you learn to actually engage someone in an actual debate rather than just copying and pasting the work of others and passing it off as your own, then you can start talking about debate, reason, and intelligence. Everything you post is just so wrong which is why you are too frightened to debate an actual topic.

Face it, you're not Rush Limbaugh. You won't be paid like him. You won't have the audience he has. The press won't ever be falling out of their chairs to cover your latest words. Politicians won't ever kiss your behind.

Now obviously the same is true for me. However, I've got a modicum of intelligence and I can string ideas together in a coherent chain and I am capable of debating with others.

You don't even have that.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 14, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

nodebris (for the last time):

That was not the full prayer. Your partial quote is akin to me claiming that you said (at 4:43 PM) you are "fine" with everything I've ever posted at WaPo.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

I'm praying that he doesn't survive the anesthesia.

Posted by: JakeD | September 10, 2009 4:04 PM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/morning-fix/morning-fix.html

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

"The MSM hasn't bothered to actually explain much about the plan, they've been too busy falling all over themselves to cover the noisy nutbags."

Yes. You have 1/2 the MSM lying outright about the plan, and the other 1/2 reporting on the exciting drama of it all.

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

So much for "ignoring" me. As I said to someone else who made a similar claim, I was not "hoping", "wishing", "wanting" (or any other expression of personal preference) for you to die.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Opinions are not germane to the discussion. Jake, you read that I was scheduled for surgery and you posted that you pray I die during the procedure. That's the facts.

You can take all the dodges that delight the turbo-charged tedium of your empty life, equivocate over wording or go into some bright-eyed supernatural BS about lord and savior but the fact of the matter is that you were hoping that I would die on the operating table last Friday.

You are a sick and morally repulsive human being.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

snowbama:

Maybe it's the pain medication talking?

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

yeswiican:

That's your opinion, but I am entitled to mine too.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

chris fox - I thought you were ignoring him. you have been ranting all day. as you well know, attention seeking trolls thrive on this.

Cf: racist
JD: am not
CF: are too
JD: prove it
CF: ban him
JD:you were banned

And so on representing the schoolyard sandboxx that this blog becomes everytime certain someones show up.

Posted by: snowbama | September 14, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

"I wonder if it's really a matter of disliking the distorted B.S. version of Obama's plan that is peddled by Beck and Limbaugh rather than learning more about the actual plan."

The MSM hasn't bothered to actually explain much about the plan, they've been too busy falling all over themselves to cover the noisy nutbags.

Posted by: drindl | September 14, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, yeah. You keep saying it wasn't the full prayer, but it was the full POST. We are not mind-readers, Jake. And your "explanation" last week was completely LAME and unintelliglible.

Even Wilson recognized that he doesn't have the right to speak his mind plainly in every situation. If you had an ounce of decency you would apologize. Instead you try to misdirect and LOL your way out of it. Shameful.

Posted by: yeswiican | September 14, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

ChrisC, please ban JakeD from this blog. He is the instigant for 99% of the incivility here. With him gone you will see a lot more good discussion.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite


I think you understand all too well the effectiveness of banning someone. stop crying for your mommy everytime something happens you don't like. If you liberals are so smart, defeat him with debate, reason, intelligence and wit. the actual problem is that you do not operate in this venue, you prefer insult, name-calling, cries for oppression and idiotic sloganeering coupled with accusations of racism. Not very effective. And your leader is the same, with a similar result.

Posted by: snowbama | September 14, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

@nodebris: you would want armpeg to represent the opposition. The troll only does about one political post out of every ten, the rest are about himself. The political posts are just pretexts to get the attention ball rolling.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

I don't care if the troll is banned or not, frankly. Tedious as it is, I'm fine with having it represent the opposition. If I were a conservative, I'd want him to shut the he11 up.

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

nodebris:

That isn't the FULL prayer.

yeswiican:

Too bad you refused to answer my prior question(s) to you, or I would have been more than happy to answer your current question to me.

GoldAndTazanite:

One person being civil, but two or three people responding with incivility, is not a reason to ban the first person (as you know ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

U.S. electromagnetic radiation weapons torture makes health care reform a cruel joke...

COVERT FED MULTI-AGENCY PROGRAM ASSAULTS U.S. CITIZENS WITH HARMFUL MICROWAVE/LASER DIRECTED ENERGY WEAPONS

• Community-based warrantless GPS-activated vigilante stalking, harassment, vandalism, financial exploitation enabled by federal and local law enforcement

• Is Team Obama naive, misinformed, or complicit?

http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america

OR (if link is corrupted / disabled):

http://NowPublic.com/scrivener RE: "GESTAPO USA"

Posted by: scrivener50 | September 14, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

ChrisC, please ban JakeD from this blog. He is the instigant for 99% of the incivility here. With him gone you will see a lot more good discussion.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, nodebris, you beat me to it.

Jake thinks it is funny to use synonyms and claim he didn't post what he posted.

You posted that you prayed for him not to survive, but claim you don't "want" and never "wished" for him to die.

Worse: if you weren't "joking" about Obama being assassinated, were you then being serious?

Posted by: yeswiican | September 14, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Not everyone who disagrees with Obama is a racist. But some of them certainly are.

==

Plenty of us disagree with a lot President Obama has done and we can manage to do so without calling him a "coon" or talking about watermelon rolling. That stuff isn't even dog-whistle, it's raw racism.

We can write about healthcare reform without bringing up "free plasma TVs for illegal immigrants."

We can disagree with the President without posting two dozen times per day that his eligibility to hold the office is suspect.

Or making cutesy winky jokes about him being assassinated.

Take the garbage out, ChrisC.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

I'm praying that he doesn't survive the anesthesia.

Posted by: JakeD | September 10, 2009 4:04 PM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/morning-fix/morning-fix.html

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

For the record, I have never "joked" about the President being assassinated, nor have I "wished" anesthesia death on another poster scheduled for surgery. That would be against the posting rules.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Well, nodebris, if you don't want to clarify what your argument is, you will have to forgive me for not rebutting any and all imagined claims.

Back to the "hijacking" claim by DDAWD, I was actually content to leave the new Political Almanac thread alone, until "mikeinmidland" posted his "Chris hasn't said anything in weeks that wasn't pro-Republican." So, whom EXACTLY is "hijacking" these threads?

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if it's really a matter of disliking the distorted B.S. version of Obama's plan that is peddled by Beck and Limbaugh rather than learning more about the actual plan.

Posted by: jbentley4 | September 14, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

"Not everyone who disagrees with Obama is a racist. But some of them certainly are.

Posted by: nodebris"

I don't think I've ever seen a zook post that was racist.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 14, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Again, it says something about Chris C that he's so ok with this.

==

Hey Chris C.

You have one poster here whom nobody likes, whom everyone wants banned, who clogs nearly every thread with endless repetitions of the same half-dozen posts, who jokes about the President being assassinated, who wishes anesthesia death on another poster scheduled for surgery, who baits and mocks and provokes, and who gets away with all of it day after day.

Don't you DARE issue another civility lecture mote until this beam is out of the blog's eye.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

It is what it is.

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Not everyone who disagrees with Obama is a racist. But some of them certainly are.

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Raccoons love raw eggs too. Was this one caught in the Oval Office? Instead of the Easter Egg roll, are they going to use watermelons this year?

Posted by: JakeD | February 25, 2009 4:40 PM

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

@nodebris: would you clog the blog with alternating racist posts and denials of racism?

@DDAWD:

CF8 was banned for calling JakeD a racist. Which is not even name-calling, given its accuracy.

JakeD gets a pass on being a racist, as well as for "praying" online that I die during surgery.

The favoritism toward racist swine posters is even more blatant than the GOP resurgence nonsense. Like we need to read another few thousand "long form" posts?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

>>Sen. Saxby Chambliss

Well drindl, seeing as I've dealt with him before the first thought in my head is not racist because he treats pretty much everyone as lesser to him. He's no gentleman and I wouldn't give him the time of day. He runs scummy campaigns and I was sickened to see him re-elected to the Senate. He has no place there. He has no place in talking about humility or anything else the way he conducts his campaigns.

We've had some excellent senators but he's definately not one of them.

Posted by: mtcooley | September 14, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

LOL!!! See what I mean? I also don't "hijack every thread" as is evident by the many threads I don't post on, and I only posted ONE WORD on the latest thread:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/senate/ma-senate-a-new-entrant.html

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

"Not that I'm that bothered about it, but I notice the lack of complaints about the reappearance of a banned poster.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade"

Meh, the one poster who should have been banned under any standards of civility wasn't. I'm not sure why CF8 was banned. Zook I believe was banned for his suxcox thing. Childish, but not that offensive. Not compared to jaked's overt racism and assassination jokes. Not to mention that he hijacks every thread.

Again, it says something about Chris C that he's so ok with this.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 14, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

No "introspection" is needed when a certain few here label ANYONE who disagrees with Obama as a "racist". Thanks for the advice though.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

"Although Washington already owns 54 percent of the square mileage west of the Rockies, it obsessively purchases new acreage. More than on private property, land-use restrictions on federal soil often prevent thinning of foliage. Flames frequently follow.

“Most western wildfires burn federal land,” William Welch wrote in September 9’s USA Today. To date this year, 123,554 private acres burned in California, versus 271,000 federal acres."


Man, you need to get some smart friends. Now I understand that your politics means that you're unamenable to smart people and your personality means you're unamenable to friends. However, put in the effort. At least you won't fall into the trap of thinking that people will believe this nonsense. There is just so much wrong here that I literally started laughing.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 14, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

"Careful, or you will be labeled a "racist" too"

If I consistently attracted that label, I would engage in some introspection. I certainly would not be inclined to wear it as a badge of honor.

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade:

I never did see confirmation that "king_of_zouk" was banned (if that's who you were even referring to ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

AP - President Barack Obama sternly warned Wall Street Monday against returning to the sort of reckless and unchecked behavior that threatened the nation like all his other programs.

Posted by: snowbama | September 14, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Name calling? Check.

Copying large chunks of text off National Review without attribution? Check.

Not that I'm that bothered about it, but I notice the lack of complaints about the reappearance of a banned poster.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | September 14, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

nodebris:

Careful, or you will be labeled a "racist" too ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

cleanup on aisle three...

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Remember Katrina< the VA hospitals? how about the USPS?

UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right?” Obama asked in August. “It’s the Post Office that’s always having problems.” Yes, indeed. Its two-year fiscal deficit approaches $8 billion. It has pried some 60,000 mailboxes off of America’s streets, the Lexington Institute reports. It also is weighing the cancellation of Saturday services. Even as e-mail, digitally attached documents, and online banking decrease demand for first-class snail mail, the Post Office keeps hiking the cost of stamps. What sort of business actually raises prices while customers walk away.

The Internal Revenue Code is like John Donne’s poetry: It means something different to everyone. Perhaps flummoxed by its 67,000 pages, even IRS advisers offer conflicting answers to identical questions. But today’s U.S. Tax Code will be a triumph of window-like clarity compared with the U.S. Health Code that Obamacare would trigger. Just wait until every medical lobby — from the American Stethoscope Council to the National Tongue Depressor League — hikes up Capitol Hill to demand exemptions, loopholes, and subsidies.

Although Washington already owns 54 percent of the square mileage west of the Rockies, it obsessively purchases new acreage. More than on private property, land-use restrictions on federal soil often prevent thinning of foliage. Flames frequently follow.

“Most western wildfires burn federal land,” William Welch wrote in September 9’s USA Today. To date this year, 123,554 private acres burned in California, versus 271,000 federal acres.

Rather than inaugurate a frivolous, bottomless government option for health care, Washington should launch a “private option” for nearly every federal activity outside the Pentagon.

But then who's money would liberals spend???

Posted by: snowbama | September 14, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

As the health-care reform debate roars on, Uncle Sam resembles a restless college senior who is flunking economics, finance, and management. Despite a report card full of Fs, he suddenly announces: “I want to go to medical school!”


but consider what the government does already:

Medicare, the Great Society’s shining jewel, is a battered gem. Its hospitals program already bleeds ruby-red ink. “Medicare Part A again will spend more in benefits than it receives in revenues” this fiscal year, observes Heritage Foundation analyst Bob Moffitt. Its Trust Fund is an accounting fiction, but even that fantasy disappears in eight years, with depletion in 2017. Even worse, Heritage’s Brian Riedl calculates that between 2009 and 2083 Medicare’s budget will zoom from 3.1 percent to 14.8 percent of Gross Domestic Product. Its unfunded liabilities (promises backed by campaign balloons instead of cash) equal $36.3 trillion.
Social Security, the New Deal’s cornerstone, is as cutting edge as a 78 RPM record. In 2016, barely six years away, it will begin paying more in pension checks than it collects in payroll taxes. Congress then will be unable to use Social Security’s surplus like a ShamWow to absorb red ink. Social Security’s unfunded obligations equal $17.5 trillion — again not financed by anything but congressional speeches.
The Hope for Homeowners program began last October 1. Congress gave it a hefty $300 billion to help some 400,000 homeowners avoid foreclosure. According to an August 10 Newsday editorial, “It has produced exactly one refinanced loan.” One down, 399,999 to go.

Posted by: snowbama | September 14, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Wow! Thanks (I guess : )

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

"Actually, even before that"

You are right; I was wrong.

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

@nodebris: fifty years ago one could be a racist and still be regarded as a gentleman, invited to holiday dinner, use the n-word in polite company. No longer.

With the anathemization of racism the right invented "political correctness," the idea that the supression of ugly ideas wasn't good manners or improving morals, rather it was tyranny. To a racist the inferiority of minorities is self-evident, and anyone who fails to see it has to be taking "marching orders" from HuffPo or MoveOn.

So imagine how they feel seeing a black family in the White House.

Judging by their posts here, frantically trying to shape perceptions with repetition, their lives are flashing before their eyes.

No, they don't know what they're doing. They're desperate and frightened.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

That same poll said that if the public option is dropped the approval of the plan goes up above 50%. Since this is what is going to happen this number makes no difference.
Also something like 70% of the people in the poll said that they thought the GOP wasn't trying to find a bipartisan solution and just being obstructionist. Mark my words that the GOP will get burned just as bad for this if the Congress doesn't pass something in the next few weeks.

Posted by: AndyR3 | September 14, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

On the prior Obamacare thread, it was also "drindl" who played the race card first (at 10:30 AM):

"Maybe we should decree they must have their ID numbers tattooed on their arms, Blade. That way we can be SURE they're not Jews. I mean, black. I mean, immigrants."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/morning-fix/morning-fix-1.html

So, nodebris, you were saying?

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Actually, even before that (at 1:39 PM):

"... the 'angry debate and protest' was ginned up and faked out by the Republican party, lunatic rightwing broadcasters, insurance interests and the media itself. And from the signs and comments at this 'protests' they were about that fact that Obama is black ..."

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Well, on THIS thread, it was first brought up by drindl at 1:46 PM.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Search for occurrences of the the "r" word in these comments and see who brought it up first and most often.

They know what they are doing.

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

fairfax voter -- the troll is a liar. Ignore.

Posted by: drindl


Be careful of the vomit on the sidewalk folks there sure is a lot of it lately.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite


........What passes for intelligence on the left.

and the blog spirals down into the sewer.

CC- one was banned, one promised to never return. but then again Liberal promises are not worth much ever.

don't you see what these "posters" do to your blog every day???

Posted by: snowbama | September 14, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

"Their time is over."

Which, the racists or the statistically illiterate?

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

nodebris:

I would bet that "drindl", "DDAWD", and "GoldAndTanzanite" (fka "chrisfox8" who was banned for name-calling) have thrown out the RACIST! claim more often than I've denied it ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I'll agree with CC that the press had done an abysmal job covering health care; once again, it prefers the horse race. And a substantial portion of the MSM is explicitly devoted to distorting the facts on the issue. So you have half the press lying, and the other half reporting on the excitement of how lies control the debate.

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully, no one ever throws shoes (or a live hand grenade) at pResident Obama.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

@nodebris: to hell with them. Their time is over.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Of course. Colbert's previous claim to fame was fighting to keep the confederate flag flying about the SC statehouse too. Racist to the bone, I guess:

http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/videos.jhtml?videoId=172956

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DDAWD | September 14, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Another important number: 9.

That's how many months the shoe-throwing Iraqi reporter served for expressing his esteem to the worthless little git who invaded his country.

Released early.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

These people who claim not to be racist sure do spend a lot of time talking about racism. It's like they want to see the word "race" a lot.

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Actually, it's BETTER for the Republicans if die-hard Dems refuse to acknowledge the reality of slipping poll numbers -- they will never know what hit 'em -- keep it up!!!

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

It is now, officially, "racist" to even point out that the party that controls the White House has lost seats in every modern midterm election except in 2002, after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, which had GWB at 90+ approval ratings (BTW: pResident Obama will NEVER get that high, "racism" or not ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

drindl:

You are starting to sound like scrivener50.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Let's have another rousing and excited column about how Haley Barbour and Tim Pawlenty are going to lead the GOP back to power.

Sheesh.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

AP leans so far right it falls. The guy who now runs it was former communiations director for the ENC. More 'liberal' media myths.

Posted by: drindl | September 14, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

'Yeah, yeah, and Rep. Wilson MEANT "You lie BOY!"'

Of course. Wilson's previous claim to fame was fighting to keep the confederate flag flying about the SC statehouse. Racist to the bone.

Posted by: drindl | September 14, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

snowbama:

Beth Fouhy must be a "racist" too ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Election trouble brewing for House Dems in 2010

By BETH FOUHY

NEW YORK (AP)

- Despite sweeping Democratic successes in the past two national elections, continuing job losses and President Barack Obama's slipping support could lead to double-digit losses for the party in next year's congressional races and may even threaten their House control.

Fifty-four new Democrats were swept into the House in 2006 and 2008, helping the party claim a decisive majority as voters soured on a Republican president and embraced Obama's message of hope and change. Many of the new Democrats are in districts carried by Republican John McCain in last year's presidential contest; others are in traditional swing districts that have proved tough for either party to hold.

...

Taken together, it could be the most toxic environment for Democrats since 1994, when the party lost 34 House incumbents and 54 seats altogether. Democrats currently have a 256-178 edge in the House, with one vacancy. Republicans would have to pick up 40 seats to regain control.

"When you have big sweeps as Democrats did in 2006 and 2008, inevitably some weak candidates get elected. And when the environment gets even moderately challenging, a number of them are going to lose," said Jack Pitney, a political science professor at Claremont McKenna College in California.

Since the mid-19th century, the party that controls the White House has lost seats in virtually every midterm election. The exceptions were in 1934, when President Franklin D. Roosevelt navigated the Great Depression, and in 2002, after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, strengthened George W. Bush's image as a leader.

...

Without Obama on the ticket, a lower predicted black turnout in 2010 could also affect Democrats in several tight races in the South. These include Reps. Bobby Bright and Parker Griffith of Alabama, Travis Childers of Mississippi, and Tom Perriello of Virginia, who won by just 745 votes last year in a district that is 24 percent black.

Concerns about Obama's health care plan and the mounting federal debt could ensnare two first-term Florida Democrats, Alan Grayson and Suzanne Kosmas. Both represent districts along the state's competitive I-4 corridor, which is heavily populated by independent voters and retirees. Polls show Obama has lost ground among both of those demographic groups nationwide.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

I mean, CC, it's not a big secret that a lot of progressives are very disappointed with the President's plan. Why do you assume disappointment equals opposition?

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure the number you pick is the most important one, CC -- or that it means exactly what you think it does.

A point I've made before: what percent of these respondents like it less because they wish the president's current proposal was *more* aggressive, e.g. provided universal coverage?

This number conflates all the various disappointments of moving from abstract desires to concrete plans, from both the left and the right, into a single number. How much can that number mean, then?

That single number certainly should not be used the way you use it, as a proxy for how many people are *against* reform, because it almost certainly includes a good number that are *for* major reform.

Consider: how do you reconcile it with the result *from the same poll* that 55% favor a public option?

Posted by: nodebris | September 14, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

the marching orders for liberals is out. avoid any debate and simply call everyone racist. this avoids having to think at all. Perfect strategy for their kind.

Posted by: snowbama | September 14, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

GoldAndTanzanite (fka "chrisfox8" who was banned by The Fix):

Isn't it "Time to unsub The Fix from [your] Kindle"?

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, yeah, and Rep. Wilson MEANT "You lie BOY!" Keep up the charges of racism, even when DEMOCRATS vote against the public option.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Be careful of the vomit on the sidewalk folks there sure is a lot of it lately.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Kudos to Robert Gibbs for NOT going there:

"I don't think the pPesident believes that people are upset because of the color of his skin," he said on CNN's "State of the Union."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/13/white-house-dismisses-dowd-claim-wilson-outburst-race-based/

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

"Show some humility" is dog-whistle for advising a black man to "know his place" and stop trying to be "uppity."

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"The day before the speech, Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R) of Georgia said Obama needed to show some "humility" when he showed up on Capitol Hill Wednesday night."

Wow

Posted by: DDAWD | September 14, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

fairfaxvoter (see for yourself):

"... at the bottom of its news story on its own survey, CNN admits to polling more than twice as many Democrats as Republicans.

"The sample of speech-watchers in this poll was 45 percent Democratic and 18 percent Republican," it says.

Although CNN gave Democrats a 23 percent edge in the partisan breakdown for the polling, it admitted "the sample is about 8-10 points more Democratic than the population as a whole" -- which would likely bring down the numbers to just over half saying they favored the pro-abortion health care bill after Obama's speech."

http://lifenews.com/nat5455.html

Last I checked, 45 was more than twice as much as 18 (unless "math is lying" now too ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

"Kudos to Maureen Dowd for going there. 'There' being some public recognition of what should be inescapable by now: that a lot of the more electric and intemperate reactions to President Obama come from people who cannot or will not accept that a black man is the President of the United States.

I think Dowd was right to see it behind Wednesday night's outburst from Rep. Joe Wilson (R) of South Carolina, a man previously best known as one of the last hold-outs for keeping the confederate flag flying over the Capitol in South Carolina. And you didn't have to wait for the night of the speech though. The day before the speech, Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R) of Georgia said Obama needed to show some "humility" when he showed up on Capitol Hill Wednesday night. I've heard presidents criticized, pilloried, even villified for lots of things. But I don't think I've ever heard one warned to show some humility.

It's no accident that both comments came from white men from the Deep South in their early to mid-60s."

Posted by: drindl | September 14, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

fairfax voter -- the troll is a liar. Ignore.

Posted by: drindl | September 14, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Hey Chris. You've managed to transition from misinformation to disinformation, from propagandizing to outright lying. Cherry-picking polls, cherry-picking from within polls, slavishly shilling for Republicans.

During the campaign you were brilliant, must-read stuff. Now I don't even bother with your columns, might as well watch Fox News. Time to unsub The Fix from my Kindle...

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 14, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

This is a really good example of the MSM's sloppy and misinformative coverage of this debate.

First, there was always more people in favor of reform than against.

Second, the 'angry debate and protest' was ginned up and faked out by the Republican party, lunatic rightwing broadcasters, insurance interests and the media itself. And from the signs and comments at this 'protests' they were about that fact that Obama is black--nothing to do with healthcare, which these kooks knew nothing abot to begin with.

Third, the media's consistent drumbeat of criticism for the public option. Interesting, hmm? Wonder what else is in the Washington Post portfolio -- insurance companies, perhaps?

'President Obama continues to face significant public resistance to his drive to initiate far-reaching changes to the country's health-care system, with widespread skepticism about central tenets of his plan, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

But after a summer of angry debate and protests, opposition to the effort has eased somewhat, and there appears to be potential for further softening among critics if Congress abandons the idea of a government-sponsored health insurance option, a proposal that has become a flash point in the debate. The gap in passion, which had shown greater intensity among opponents of the plan, has also begun to close, with supporters increasingly energized and more now seeing reform as possible without people being forced to give up their current coverage."

Peope were NEVER going to lose their current coverage. More disinformation from the corporate MSM and the radical right.

Posted by: drindl | September 14, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Don't tell blarsen1 that pResident Obama was "lying" though ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

margaretmeyers: please email same name at hotmail.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 14, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Here is the essential misfire in the Liberal plan. they wish to do the following, perhaps a noble attempt:

include more people
raise levels of service
eliminate caps
eliminate pre-existing conditions
eliminate differences in premiums
Place all risk on the corporation

note that all these things cost additional money.

then they cut their own throat by promising it will not cost anything and actually save money. Only Liberals actually beleive this part and thus the failure. It is a fact that the whole thing is a lie.

Posted by: snowbama | September 14, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Even worse news for the Dems and pResident Obama:

"Forty-three percent of respondents consider themselves independents, the most ever in a Post-ABC poll, and about a third of them say they do not trust either side to deal with the nation's biggest problems in the years ahead."

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

mikeinmidland:

I note that taking the "public option" out increase support too. So?

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD:

Because "perception is reality" in politics.

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

CC picked out the one number in the survey which best makes the case for the opposition.

The main WaPo article states that opposition to the plan is "waning but still high."

Also note "favorable impression" of Obama at 63%.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 14, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Why is it unimportant whether the reaction comes due to misinformation or to Obama's actual policies?

Posted by: DDAWD | September 14, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

I think this is generally true for all things Democrat. the more you hear, the less you like.

Posted by: snowbama | September 14, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I suspect this poll reflects a natural function of self interest. The kinds of people who are contacted for pols like these are the kinds of people who have insurance -- they have jobs, land lines, own a home, get a newspaper (or at least read one), etc. The more they read about the reform bill the more they realize it isn't going to touch them in any big way. All they see is that they may or may not pay more for the coverage they already have.

They are, of course, being short sighted, for much of the bill defines long term improvements on coverage (better definition of coverage, better routes for grievance over things deemed not covered by the insurer), portability and inclusion of pre-existing conditions, and will develop cost-saving measures as effective savings are identified. There is plenty to reform, especially in service and cost.

The other issue at play here is that the kind of people MOST likely to benefit from the reform bill are exactly those people least likely to be contacted by any pollster -- the 46 million people legally in this country who do not have health insurance.

The results of this poll are what you get when each person thinks only of themselves.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | September 14, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

fairfaxvoter:

CNN is including twice the number of Democrats vs. Republicans. That hardly seems fair, does it?

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

But why does today's CNN poll show just the reverse? Does the Post only comment on its own polls? This is confusing.

Posted by: fairfaxvoter | September 14, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

AMEN!!!

Posted by: JakeD | September 14, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

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