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The Most Important Number in Politics Today

49

That's the percentage of people who say the government is doing "too many things better left to businesses and individuals" in the latest NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, the first time that number has surpassed those saying the government "should do more to solve problems" in their data since December 1997.

While the number saying government outstrips the number saying it should do more (45 percent) only narrowly, the trend line on the question in the NBC/WSJ poll is interesting.

As recently as February, a clear majority -- 51 percent -- said government should be doing more while 40 percent said it was doing too much. Roughly two years ago, a whopping 55 percent said government should do more as compared to 37 percent who said it should do less.

You have to go back more than a decade to the early days of Bill Clinton's second term -- and roughly a year removed from his declaration that the "era of big government is over" -- to find a majority (51 percent) saying that the government is doing too much.

The numbers are illuminating given that the central criticism of President Barack Obama to date is that he has grown government at an alarming rate as he has moved to take control of the financial and automobile industries in the first nine months of his presidency.

Obama has repeatedly cast those moves as necessities born of the economic disaster he inherited from former President George W. Bush. But, he has also insisted -- during the campaign and again while in the White House -- that he believes there is a place for government in peoples' lives.

And, in the runup to the 2008 election, there was a clear sense among voters that Obama was right -- perhaps the result of the failure of the Bush Administration to adequately handle the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina along the Gulf Coast.

Politics is, however, rightly understood as a swinging pendulum. When the pendulum swings far in one direction, it almost always begins to swing back the other way in short order. Witness the Democratic gains made in the wake of the 1994 Republican landslide.

Watch the next few NBC/WSJ polls to see where public opinion heads on the question. If the trend line continues downward, it could well provide fuel for Republican arguments about the need for more divided government in the 2010 midterms.

By Chris Cillizza  |  September 23, 2009; 12:00 PM ET
Categories:  Most Important Number  
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Comments

is this some kind of punishment? what did we do?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 24, 2009 12:49 AM | Report abuse

I find it hilarious that the Obama worshipping Democrap Socialists commenting here, who obviously are in fact 12 year olds, hate to be told the truth. What also is obvious is that since they are all still children, mentaly undeveloped and still under their mommy's and daddy's care, they all think our government should be like that too. No wonder that they all believe in a Communist system were the government is just like their mommy and daddy. No wonder they all love and adore Obama.

Posted by: armpeg | September 24, 2009 12:33 AM | Report abuse

"Simply ignore the pointless back-and-forth and look for comments that add something to the discussion."

It's getting hardly worth the effort.

Posted by: nodebris | September 24, 2009 12:23 AM | Report abuse

It figures that the liberal Obama worshippers here get their political and economic news and perspective from the movies mentally geared to the 12 year old's mentality and the comic books.

==

A guy who writes things like "Democrap Socialist Party" really isn't on very firm ground calling anyone else immature.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 24, 2009 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Repost:

Also with G&T as the constant refrain that Republicans are idiots, moonbats, mentally deranged, etc. is as interesting as claims of a Kenyan birth.

==

By 2004 the Republican Party had come to embrace a host of morally abhorrent ideas. For example making war as a matter of unmotivated choice, killing scores of civilians in pursuit of goals not related to our own security, and most of all, torture. That election was very much a referendum on the use of torture and I am ashamed to note that tens of millions of my fellow citizens were willing to join in that embrace and were sufficiently untroubled by Iraq and Abu Ghraib to vote for more of the same. This is in addition to the usually lunatic ideas about money and privilege.

And that was five years ago.

The GOP of today has gone far past merely approving preemptive invasion and waterboarding, now the party has unreservedly embraced dishonesty, and not only on hate radio but up to its most senior elected officials.

Anyone still a Republican has made the choice to accept all that.

It'd be nice if I could say I've met Republicans who were still on board in hopes of a return to a less barbarous party, but I can't honestly say that. Every Republican I meet is a seething angry a-hole. Every single last one.

So, BB, if you want to claim that this position is on a par with Jake's birth certificate nonsense then I can't say I take your rejection very seriously. I have no intention of pretending that there remains any mitigating virtue in these people.

There isn't.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 24, 2009 12:01 AM | Report abuse

armpeg, where do you get yours, from the voices in your head?

Posted by: ruraledcomm | September 23, 2009 11:10 PM | Report abuse

It figures that the liberal Obama worshippers here get their political and economic news and perspective from the movies mentally geared to the 12 year old's mentality and the comic books.

Posted by: armpeg | September 23, 2009 10:52 PM | Report abuse

CC you are a muck-raker, but I like you..your poll numbers are always designed to give false hope to the party of NO hacks and raise the ire of the Democrats..you skew the polls any way you like, all I know is that President Barack Obama's personal and jop approval numbers are extremely healthy, the way he is handling the economy, health care reform and national security are all over 50%....

Posted by: ruraledcomm | September 23, 2009 10:45 PM | Report abuse

"The numbers are illuminating given that the central criticism of President Barack Obama to date is that he has grown government at an alarming rate as he has moved to take control of the financial and automobile industries in the first nine months of his presidency."

==

"Taking control" sort of sidesteps the central reason which was to "rescue them from collapse."

To see this as in some way abhorrent carries the subtext that they should have been bailed out with no strings attached. Which plays on the nutty notion that "the marketplace" will reach an optimum on its own.

I think its past overdue to retire that crazy idea.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 8:59 PM | Report abuse

That episode had Michael Ansara as the Klingon Captain, who also played the "Soldier" from the future in "The Outer Limits."

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

@ justjoeking - Nice try, but it's a wasted effort. Have you ever seen the Star Trek episode (original series) where the Enterprise crew and a group of Klingon boarders are engaged in endless warfare? It's kinda like that around here at times. Simply ignore the pointless back-and-forth and look for comments that add something to the discussion.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | September 23, 2009 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Mental patient isn't name-calling, it's true. He even admitted it once.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 8:08 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure he doesn't like being called a mental patient, either. It's a waste of space. I'm sure you call each other trolls, too. From here it's hard to see the difference between you.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

If you don't want to talk about the topic, you can sign off. Or say something constructive. There are plenty of places to have insult contests.

==

I don't like being called a pedophile. I wasn't even into underage guys when I was one.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 8:00 PM | Report abuse

The liberal Democrap Socialist Obama worshipper commenting here, all have one thing in common when commenting on economic issues, they all think and believe like their idol Obama, who they'd follow over the cliff with like a bunch of brainless Lemmings.

==

What do you get out of writing nonsense like this?

The whole "idol" and "messiah" thing has no basis in reality. I have never met anyone who viewed Obama as anything but a politician and an imperfect man. You guys trot out this "hero worship" crap because you hate having a black man in the White House and you just can't rationally deal with the fact that most people respect him.

I donated the limit to Obama's campaign, I would be one of those people you think you're talking about, but I have dozens of disappointments with him, as well as a few things I think he's done well. Hero worship? Nowhere in sight.

Quit this crap.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Ah, the economic illiterate found his way back.

Armpeg: See below. I posted a link to today's announcement from the Federal Reserve Bank. There the ones "printing money." $300 billion of it. Have a nice day.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 7:51 PM | Report abuse

Will do (planning a trip up to Las Vegas ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Agenda item noted. Let me know how that 'vette handles. I had a '74 back in college.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 7:47 PM | Report abuse

The liberal Democrap Socialist Obama worshipper commenting here, all have one thing in common when commenting on economic issues, they all think and believe like their idol Obama, who they'd follow over the cliff with like a bunch of brainless Lemmings.
Barack Obama has been a Communist for all of his entire adult life, and he's still one today. In college he was a member of the Communist and racist hate--group The Black Liberation Front, led by James Combs, who was teaching his members the Malcolm X philosophy. Out of college and in Chicago, he becomes a rabble-rousing government-hating ACORN lawyer and one of their leaders, demanding freebees (or else) from the authorities. He joins a America and racist white--hating cult, laughably called 'church', The Trinity UFC Church, and stays in this cult for over 20 years. His friends, neighbors and business assocciates are all America--haters, racist white--haters, and crminal con artists, like Jerimiah Wright Jr, Otis Moss 3d, Michael Pfleger, Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dorhn, Tony Rezko, and other low-life's of that ilk. Becomming president (because the MSM censored just about everything in his past), he puts czars in power who are mostly Communists, takes over control of private industry, Auto Companies, Banks, Insurance Companies, Fannie Mae and Fredie Mack, hires and fires people like Wagoner etc., put's union goons on the boardrooms of GM and Chrysler with the power to vote on company policies, after he gives the unions 20% of the companies stock, and on, and on. And now his dingbat followers, like the ones posting here, all support this Communist who is trying to change our country from a Representative Republic into a government--uber--alles facist dictatorship like George Orwell's 1984. What a bunch of aholes!!!

Posted by: armpeg | September 23, 2009 7:46 PM | Report abuse

GoldandTanzanite and snowbama:

If you don't want to talk about the topic, you can sign off. Or say something constructive. There are plenty of places to have insult contests.

(sorry for the hijack.)

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

then there is Al gore, who flunked out of every school he went to. then concocted a sham science to line his pockets.

then there is Barry obama. the editor with no papers. the scholar with no writings. the teacher with no record. the writer with a ghost. the pol with lots of votes of Present. Now the most failed leader in US history


this sounds a lot like our befuddled freind chrissy fox. the dimwitted programmer who never got that promotion, who feels as if (s)he is smarter than given credit for, who naturally despises capitalism, free markets and liberty, because (s)he has failed so gloriously in all of the above. Yet is is imperative you pay close attention to her ramblings.

but mostly they are repetaive tripe full of troll, loony, stupid and other assorted insults, no actual intelectual content. but whay would you expect from a dried up old quiff.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

It would help me get Obama out of the White House.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Based on the disordered and jumbled reasoning does anyone here believe that JakeD could go before a judge and present a coherent argument of any kind in any court under any circumstances?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

That's what the insurance is for. Knock yourself out--enjoy the 'vette.

Not sure why you would hope that its a money-loser for GM. Who would that help?

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, you libs are always so sure of your position. "do you know who I am? " I am better than you. I am smarter then you.

==

We are.

You're the guys who can't understand basic science like absorption spectra, and who believe money can think.

You're the guys who believed we could invade a country and be welcomed as liberators.

You're the guys who think you can narrow your appeal to aging rural racists and win national elections.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, right. As if pResident Obama and the Dems who bought GM in the first place are seriously going to let it FAIL now?! Any insurance policy has a limit, and I'm hoping more people than expected take advantage of a free rental car for two months. Seriously, if you were going to rent a car for even a weekend, why not do this instead?

(I'm retired from law)

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 7:37 PM | Report abuse

oh I doubt that

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite


Yeah, you libs are always so sure of your position. "do you know who I am? " I am better than you. I am smarter then you.

sounds like John Kerry before he lost the election to a dimwit Texan. and it was later discovered that his grades were below Bush's. the reality is always such a letdown for Libs. much more pleasing to live in the land of hope and change.

Say hi to Judy Garland while you're there.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

No, I just found this site.

OK, I take it you're a lawyer? And now you see that the Marketing Dept. is paying for the insurance to cover the cost of the bring-backs. See? they are grown-ups.

And they let their dealers opt out. Free market. Good. No unfunded mandate.

And their is no "full faith and credit of the United States." The US has no obligation to pay out any more money. The deal is done. We got our worthless stock. If the stock goes up, we get some money back, if not, our loss is limited to what has already been paid out.

Kwityerwhinin.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 7:34 PM | Report abuse

justjoeking:

I've read the fine print already, thank you very much.

Have you ever posted on The Fix under a different name?

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

trolling the streets for the newest underage immigrant

==

You're projecting. I like'm 28-40 với thuốc dượi nhác

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 7:32 PM | Report abuse

and it is possible you have my situation wrong.

==

oh I doubt that

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

they actually think that excessive spending, massive regulation, huge government intrusion and skyhigh taxes leads to recovery.

==

Leave off the first one and you have a prescription for PROSPERITY.

You wouldn't understand that since it only happens under Democratic presidents. High taxes, strong regulation = business growth.

Don't believe me? Go look at the charts. Eisenhower era with 91% top marginal tax rate and high business taxes? Prosperous.

Reagan era with far lower taxes and lots of dereg, the decade we added "downsizing" to our lexicon.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Go annoy the nurses.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

At the end of the day we out here have jobs and lives and you're a lifer in a nut ward with no future.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite


jobs - chasing down red semi-colons - how appropos for your level of intellect

lives - posting hate on the fix all day every day, followed by trolling the streets for the newest underage immigrant who doesn't know better

and it is possible you have my situation wrong. It would not be the first time you were completely clueless about anything. pretty much describes everything you beleive, in fact.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

How about a Fix column about something important like Afghanistan? Can't we take a break from these "most important number" and "republican resurgence" reruns?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Of course, to think the stock market moves according to what might happen a year from now is beyond ridiculous, but that's exactly where snowbama is -- beyond ridiculous.


Posted by: koolkat_1960


and this is why when Libs get near your economy, you should hide. not a clue how it works.

they actually think that excessive spending, massive regulation, huge government intrusion and skyhigh taxes leads to recovery.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

JakeD: If you do buy that Corvette, be careful with it.

"Your Eligible Vehicle must have no more than $200 of damage as determined by GM or GM's agent. Such damage may include, without limitation, internal or external scratches, scrapes, dents, odors, rips, burns, etc. "

And that's just some of the fine print.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

justjoeking:

Have you ever posted on The Fix under a different name?

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

OK, so I looked up the Hyundai Assurance program, which allows buyers to return their vehicle, but the key difference is a buyer is eligible ONLY if he or she loses their source of income. In addition, the policy kicks in after TWO months of ownership (but is good for a year thereafter). Not a bad deal, except how many people lost their jobs and returned the cars? Not the same thing as GM.

I see that GM has actually purchased an insurance policy through the firm "cynoSure Financial Inc." to cover the cost of any reimbursements, spokesman John McDonald says. The policy was purchased using funds from GM's marketing budget, allegedly, which the automaker does not disclose. Another "unfunded mandate" which Obama will have to bail out? Too soon to tell, but that is the "unfair competition" because Ford doesn't have the U.S. Mint to fall back on ; )

What is also funny is that not all GM dealers are going along with it. Autoblog reports: "A group of General Motors dealers aren't fond of the company's new 60-day satisfaction guarantee. In fact, they dislike it so much that about 3.5 percent of the General dealers are opting out of the program."

There are conflicting claims about the number of dealers who have opted not to participate. The financial news website 24/7 Wall Street reports: "149 of the firm's 4,000 dealers" have elected not to offer the guarantee, but then says "other sources say that the number is much higher." Some dealers have elected not to participate because they "believe that they are running financial risks by taking cars back from customers. Whether this is true or not is hard to tell. Some dealers are worried that once they pay customers it may take time for them to get money reimbursed from GM." Others, apparently, "believe that the marketing program is a sign of desperation," with some Cadillac dealers worrying that the offer "cheapens the brand." LOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

chris fox takes a close look in the mirror and sees.................

==

And what would you know about mirrors? They don't have them where you are because you might be able to break one and then you'd have something sharp.

Be as snide and sarcastic as you like. At the end of the day we out here have jobs and lives and you're a lifer in a nut ward with no future.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Or the claim of having a wife, as if any woman would cohabitate with such a prick.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite


From the fool who never met a women he didn't despise. he has to purchase vietnamse boys for company. and the result is sickening.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Scared of what, you senile old man? Even DEMS are predicting the Dems will lose seats in the House next year. That's just how things work.

indeed. when libs take over, they shoot themselves in the foot with their bumbling.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

what a malicious and malevolent little jerk

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite


chris fox takes a close look in the mirror and sees.................

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Excuse me, JakeD, I don't understand. How can one program be both "unfair competition" for Ford and a giant sinkhole of taxpayer money at the same time?

If people return their GM cars after 60 days, won't they go out and buy a Ford after that?

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

Well, I resemble that last remark ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Hyundai and Saturn and some others had a deal earlier this year that if you lost your job, you could bring back the car.

I don't know what all the requirements and limitations are for the GM deal, but the idea is to get people to try the car. Specifically to get over the idea that GM must make bad cars if they were going bankrupt.

If I thought that was Obama's idea, I'd be worried. But I'm sure it was GM's marketing types, and they ran all the numbers and figured what it might cost and what kind of market-share bump they might get from it.

If business types let lawyer types make all the decisions, no one would ever make a move.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

what a malicious and malevolent little jerk

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

Yes, it was wrong for GWB to do it too. As for the GM "free car" deal, I am seriously going to buy a new Corvette, drive it 3,999 miles, and take it back so they can't sell it as a "new" car anymore. I hope that lots of people do that.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse

He did no such thing. "New leadership" was one of the strings attached to the bailout money. The CEOs were perfectly free to walk away from the money. Then their boards could fire them and go back and beg for the money.

Stockholders do have some influence over a board's decisions. I assume you have no problem with that. Obama carries the proxy for the US taxpayers.

I assume you felt it was wrong for Bush to give them loans with no strings. Perhaps it was wrong to give them loans WITH strings, but it was at least more responsible.

According to the GAO report out this week, the Fed's "exposure" at AIG is $120B, down from $182B in April. Damn straight we're going to keep an eye on them until they pay us back.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 6:54 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, I didn't answer your second question directly: I don't know if Ford is complaining about unfair competition, but they should be. I am unaware of ANY successful car company giving away cars for free (at least in non-Communist countries ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 6:52 PM | Report abuse

I think that Obama is running AIG, GM, Chrysler, etc. by the mere fact he calls their CEOs into the Oval Office and FIRES THEM. How else would you describe that? If I were still counsel for Ford, I would strongly suggest a lawsuit against GM and the U.S. Government.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Who here thinks that Obama IS running AIG? So far, we've just made a modest profit on some loans. They've paid back a third of it already.

As for Government Motors, I thought that the government was guaranteeing the warranties on existing cars. The "New" GM is on their own when it comes to the money-back business. And I don't know what Ford is doing, but other companies were doing that "bring it back" stuff last summer.

Is Ford complaining about unfair competition? They got the biggest domestic slice from Cash for Clunkers. I think they're pretty happy.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Back on topic:

Who really thinks that Obama can run AIG properly? Are newspapers really next? Who really thinks that GM (Government Motors) should be offering a "money back guarantee" on new cars? The shareholders at Ford would revolt if they did that. This is EXACTLY the type of unfair competition we were warning about! It's just incredible to think how much money will be wasted if Obama takes over the healthcare industry as well.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 6:09 PM | Report abuse

I guess I don't get the joke. What was Limbaugh's point? The DJIA went down 80 points today--does he think that had something to do with Obama speaking at the UN? Or the Fed announcement?

I agree that if the economy is doing poorly next year, the Dems will lose more seats than if it is doing better. At this time I don't see evidence of that.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

koolkat_1960:

It's obvious that you are scared of the GOP taking over the U.S. House, but go ahead and "ignore" whatever you want. BTW: there's no question you've asked me on this thread that I haven't answered (and you haven't answered at least TWO of mine on this thread alone). I recall the beginning of the dot.com boom at least from early 1994 with Apple and Cyberian Outpost. That sector was certainly NOT stagnant, and I remember from personal experience, because I made quite a bit of money off that (enough to retire early in fact ; )

justjoeking:

Rush joked about the stock market being like a tracking poll. Just you wait, joeking.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Hey, bibby-bibby.

In 1994 the GOP was out of power but was a legitimate political party.

In 2009 the GOP is out of power and has neither integrity nor respect. Your GOP -- and spare me the registered independent BS nobody believes it -- is a laughingstock party of tinfoil teabaggers, angry racists, and lifer failures.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

My comment was that Limbaugh et al no longer link Obama's performance to the stock market.

When the stock market bottomed out in March, it was supposedly all Obama's fault. Now that it is at a high for the year, it must be "in spite of" the stimulus, or some such nonsense.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Oh, he's lying about his age. Show me a septuagenarian with the typographic habits of a teenager and I'll show you a teenager.

Men in their 70s don't use smilies or "LOL" or that crap.

Presume that everything JakeD posts is a lie and you will never have cause to regret. Trust me, GOP trolls lie about everything but when it comes to details about their own lives the lies get especially laughable.

Like the Stanford law degree, from a guy with the reasoning powers of a turnip. Or the claim of having a wife, as if any woman would cohabitate with such a prick.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

"Perhaps you've forgotten the tech stock BOOM during the 90's?"

Uh, there was no tech stock boom in 1994, dimwit. You're off by a few years. Did you not read the numbers I just posted? The stock market was stagnant in 1994.

Now I am going to ignore your posts because you, like the idiot snowbama, just ignore facts that don't fit your bizarro world perspective.

And as I have explained, if the economy is stagnant, and there is a health care debacle, the Repubs will have an opening. Strong economy, no opening.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | September 23, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

"Hey koolkat you better answer and toot sweet otherwise sometime in the future he'll refuse to answer YOUR questions and god knows we mustn't have THAT"

He already won't answer my questions because of some imagined slight from months ago. He's the most immature 71-year-old person on the face of the planet.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | September 23, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, koolkat_1960, I'm not the one predicting with absolute certainty which party will control the House after the mid-terms next year. I simply am pointing out that YOUR assumptions were proven wrong in 1994. You are the one so sure that GOP control can't happen.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Proving joked a liar is so much fun, and so easy.

==

It's too easy to be any fun. Satisfaction comes from meeting challenges. Showing bibby-bibby to be a liar isn't any challenge.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps you've forgotten the tech stock BOOM during the 90's? And you think there won't be another failed healthcare debacle? LOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

baby be weepy-weepy 'cause the gooby-gooby be loozy the momentum.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

"Keep in mind that I am not the only predicting that Dems WILL lose seats in the United States House of Representatives next year:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/house/cook-rothenberg-see-environmen.html

Be scared, be very scared."

Scared of what, you senile old man? Even DEMS are predicting the Dems will lose seats in the House next year. That's just how things work.

But even your Stanford-educated peabrain will admit there's a bit of a difference between losing seats and losing control of the House, where even a narrow margin allows the majority to do what it wishes.

You're really off your game today, joked. You're getting pummeled from pillar to post.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | September 23, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

"In case you don't already know the answer, the DJIA was shooting up and unemployment was going down for all of 1994:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DJIA_historical_graph_to_jan09_(log).svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Us_unemployment_rates_1950_2005.png

And, the Dems "only" lost 54 seats that mid-term election."

Proving joked a liar is so much fun, and so easy.

DJIA close on 12/31/93: 3,754.09
DJIA close on 11/4/94: 3,807.52

You just proved my case, moron. A stagnant economy allowed the Republicans to focus on silliness like the House Bank scandal and hammer the Dems over the failed health care reform debacle.

A strong economy in 2010 will give the Republicans no openings and you will lose again.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | September 23, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Keep in mind that I am not the only predicting that Dems WILL lose seats in the United States House of Representatives next year:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/house/cook-rothenberg-see-environmen.html

Be scared, be very scared.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

hahahaha what a fool

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

In case you don't already know the answer, the DJIA was shooting up and unemployment was going down for all of 1994:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DJIA_historical_graph_to_jan09_(log).svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Us_unemployment_rates_1950_2005.png

And, the Dems "only" lost 54 seats that mid-term election.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Hey koolkat you better answer and toot sweet otherwise sometime in the future he'll refuse to answer YOUR questions and god knows we mustn't have THAT

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Joked is a charter member of the rightwingnut "Fail America" brigade. He knows the only hope the GOP has in 2010 is for the economy NOT to recover.

What's good for America is NOT good for the GOP

==

Which is why they openly hope for another "terrorist attack." Or an economic collapse.

Or an assassination.

I hope the FBI has infiltrated the Republican Party.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

koolkat_1960:

I simply asked you a question, based on your unfounded assertion(s): "If you think the House is going to flip even though the economy recovers you're completely nuts". Here's another simple question: what did the DJIA and unemployment data look like in 1994?

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

More from Rush Limbaugh:

"We have people out of work with no hope of finding a job, and this administration is telling everybody to stop acting like teenagers? What, we're not putting in any screwball light bulbs fast enough? We're not buying those cheap little bubble cars fast enough?"

"The amount of the leftists' brains that understand economics would not even equal an amoeba: 'Oh, yeah, the federal government -- they'll keep the insurance companies honest.' No, they'll put them out of business!"

"Can you actually believe that we're discussing whether or not we can win in Afghanistan? I mean, who are we fighting? Al-Qaeda? The Taliban? 9/11 ring a bell? Oh, we're just going to quit?"

"Well, there you have it: one of Obama's buddies, Evo Morales, saying that what hurts this planet is capitalism. No, what hurts this planet is the unequal distribution of capitalism."

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

"Who said that the economy will recover by then?

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse"

Joked is a charter member of the rightwingnut "Fail America" brigade. He knows the only hope the GOP has in 2010 is for the economy NOT to recover.

What's good for America is NOT good for the GOP

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | September 23, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

If you think the House is going to flip even though the economy recovers you're completely nuts, joked.

==

Don't forget you're addressing the uh person who believes with complete conviction that Sarah Palin will be elected President in 11/12.

I'll take "completely nuts and stupid too" for a thousand, Alex

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Who said that the economy will recover by then?

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

justjoeking:

Rush Limbaugh was just talking about the stock market today, funny you should say that.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

"koolkat_1960:

Were you similarly shocked and awed when Newt took over the House in 1994?"

If you think the House is going to flip even though the economy recovers you're completely nuts, joked.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | September 23, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

well we have several believers in the supernatural here and by some aMAzing coincidence the list is the same as the list of the trolls who post here all day.

One believes that a giant invisible spirit created the world less than 10,000 years ago and deliberately laid all sorts of false clues to deceive unbelievers into thinking it's really billions of years old/

Zouk / snowbama believes in some magical spirit that lives in money and can see the future like "Chris Cadillac" (Nick Cage) in "Next." And that the money-spirit never makes mistakes (and it's a Republican).

Y'think the founder would have entrusted lunatics like this with the vote?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

koolkat_1960:

Were you similarly shocked and awed when Newt took over the House in 1994?

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

That's an interesting version of events. As I recall, the market started tanking after Bear Stearns failed. I can only imagine how bad it would have tanked if Bush had let AIG and banks and Chrysler and GM fail too.

Yes, don't forget that Bush had a chance to "let GM fail" and he gave them a big loan. No strings. At least Obama put some strings on the money.

I think it was McCain's cancel-the-debate-and-save-the-day stunt that swung the electorate toward Obama, and that was a *result* of the financial crisis, not the cause of it.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

the market has realized

==

the "spirit" in money

you belong where you are.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

"now it is clear that the congress will flip next year and the presidency and senate two years after that."

Here's where the retard snowbama's "analysis" goes off the tracks. (His "analysis," of course, being nothing but a feeble attempt to comport real-world facts with his mental institution worldview).

Not even the most delusionary rightwingnut -- thinks the House will flip back to the Republicans next year.

Of course, to think the stock market moves according to what might happen a year from now is beyond ridiculous, but that's exactly where snowbama is -- beyond ridiculous.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | September 23, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

the market has realized that the Dem leadership is powerless and ineffective. the initial giddiness of passing cap and tax was quickly turned into failure by sending it to oblivion. this was the signal we were waiting for. also when it tunred out that the most powerful individuals in the country were Back and Palin, via twitter, everyone then knew that despite all the scariness of government takeover, the sensible Dems in congress would never go for it.

so the only thing that actually passed was the porkulus, a giant waste of money for nuthin. But certainly within the realm of expectations for the new thriftless admin.

now it is clear that the congress will flip next year and the presidency and senate two years after that.

I just hope the Repubs learned their lesson about acting like Democrats.

the market, you see, is forward looking. It saw the election of Obimbo and tanked. It now sees the buyers remorse and is planning ahead.

But keep in mind economics is above a liberals pay grade.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse


I do recall that the stock market bottomed out two months into the new administration. At that time, Limbaugh and co. touted that as proof that Obama was a failure, or that the market didn't trust him, or something. I haven't heard them use the DJIA as a yardstick for the administration for a long time. Anybody know why that is?

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

don't you dare bring up facts when arguing with a liberal. It is an unfair fight. Please resort to name calling and feeble attempts at humor instead. Let's keep this even.

and citations are only required when you don't post them. Get it?

Economics is spooky and scary. Libs prefer the "science" of Al Gore, the guy who won the Nobel prize for chemistry, remember? and they wish to mimic the roaring success of the Carter years in foreign affairs. who says you can only give away Afghanistan once? I bet Barry can find a way to go back and lose the war in Iraq retroactively. you remember the one that was already lost. the one that the surge couldn't win?

Ooops. forgot about the expiration again. Drat. Lib rules are so hard to follow.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

We'll let the American people and the free market decide.

Posted by: DDAWD


you have just proclaimed "Death to Liberalism".

shouldn't you be starting your paper route about now?

so the free market and the people are going to decide if posting to a blog constututes plaigerism? I must admit, your ideas are certainly unique in their intractibility. do you just wind together a few dumb phrases as an answer to any question. Let me try.

The solution to the health care problem can be solved with competition and a coherent consideration of cuckholded cranial cranberries. Wow, I sound like a liberal. amazing!

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

koolkat_1960's got it. Employment follows the stock market. If things continue, next fall the question of whether government does too much or too little ain't gonna matter much.

All the Democrats will have to do is display two charts: stock market and employment, 2000-2010. Put a bright line where Bush's administration started and where Obama's administration started. There's the election for you.

In the meantime, enjoy arguing about how many angels you have dancing on the head of your pin.

Posted by: nodebris | September 23, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

pop some corn folks it looks like we're going to be treated to a public meltdown

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Just, wow.

From today's Federal Reserve announcement:

"As previously announced, the Federal Reserve’s purchases of $300 billion of Treasury securities will be completed by the end of October 2009. The Committee will continue to evaluate the timing and overall amounts of its purchases of securities in light of the evolving economic outlook and conditions in financial markets. The Federal Reserve is monitoring the size and composition of its balance sheet and will make adjustments to its credit and liquidity programs as warranted."

http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/monetary/20090923a.htm

Buying Treasury notes, for those of you with limited comprehension, is what we actually do when we talk about "printing money." $300 Billion worth.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Pay no mind.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite


forgot this one-size fits all reply from the queen of mean.

this is the typical response when it is not all about me, me, me, me, me. this is now the official motto of the Libs. don't fight back. just cry for mommy. the world is watching and laughing.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

sent for an ECT.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite


the pea brained loon, having reached the limits of its narrow intellect, reverts to its usual hourly post.

Next up:

troll, troll, troll
racist
animals are smarter and better
being a quiff is kool
economics is spooky, stay away
where is my house boy, baloney time
commies are kool
ignorance is bliss
chasing red dots is hard
how do I get this taste out of my mouth

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Right now it's little more than flypaper for the half-educated.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite


How did we get onto global warming again?

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

If we're printing money now, as you falsely claim, then we would have inflation RIGHT NOW! We don't, which makes you a liar.

==

Incorrect.

Your view of "economics" as a deterministic and reliable science makes you an idiot. Economics is an infantile field of study probably a good century away from being developed enough to be any real use. Right now it's little more than flypaper for the half-educated.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Meanwhile, the DJIA is closing in on 10,000 -- one of the most powerful stock market rallies in decades.

While you rightwingnuts have been mewling and bleating, the rest of us have been recovering from the horrific debacle known as the George W. Bush presidency.

Of course, there is much work to be done, given the depths to which Bush "led" the economy, but by the time Obama leaves office in 2017 the Bush presidency will be nothing but a bad dream.

Another Republican president, another period of miserable stock market performance. Business as usual. Too bad the GOP sheeple never learn.

Posted by: koolkat_1960 | September 23, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

See?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

justjoeking re. that "we're printing money now to dig out of the recession"
Not true, but typical of liberal Obama worshippers. Just make things up out of thin air to prove something that isn't true, and someone will believe it.
If we're printing money now, as you falsely claim, then we would have inflation RIGHT NOW! We don't, which makes you a liar.

Posted by: armpeg | September 23, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Hey joeking don't waste your time with armpeg. If the Solzhenitzin punctuation stylistics haven't given him away, he's one of those people who refers to the Democrats as the "Democrap Socialist Party." He's immature. Pay no mind.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Haha, my favorite part of the zook shtick is how he complains that we don't coddle and compliment him and his wonderful ideas as he wonders how people could possibly think they are smarter than him.

==

My favorite part is how he sounds so sarcastically condescending and superior when he can't even write his own posts, unless you count creative sarcasm and infantile name-calling.

I take great satisfaction knowing he's in a nut ward. Nice to know that if he really gets amped up he'll get stuck in a "timeout" room or maybe even sent for an ECT.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse


Sorry, armpeg. My point was that they've been printing money like crazy all year. Obama may be running up the bill, but it is the Fed that is printing the money.

They're already doing it. No inflation yet. Worries of DEflation. Inflation WILL occur if Bernanke doesn't tighten the purse strings at the right time.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

justjoeking re"...printing money CAUSES inflation".
EXACTLY WHAT I SAID!!!The Obama government will have to print money to pay the bills!!!

Posted by: armpeg | September 23, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

"I guess if all conservatives are simply stoopid, then you and your over-the-top geniuses on the left can rule with no questions asked.

didn't you proclaim the other day how much better you are then so many others.

you sound like al Franken - better, smarter, wiser, etc.

Except for one thing.

so your case comes down to "I'm smart, you're not. end of story." uh huh.

Posted by: snowbama"


Haha, my favorite part of the zook shtick is how he complains that we don't coddle and compliment him and his wonderful ideas as he wonders how people could possibly think they are smarter than him.

Maybe he has a point. I don't see myself having come up with that free advertising thing myself. I'm guessing it's either I'm too dumb to think of it or too smart to believe it.

We'll let the American people and the free market decide.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 23, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Excuse me, armpeg, but printing money is what CAUSES inflation. We're already doing that to dig out of the recession (which by the way, is MUCH bigger than Reagan's).

It's Bernanke's job, BTW, to pull back in order to avoid inflation.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

I'd be curious to know what sort of people are really up in arms about government taking a role in the private sector. That doesn't sound like the kind of thing that real people get tied into knots about, it sounds like the kind of thing that reactionary Reaganite know-nothings claim to get hot under the collar about because they have some inexplicable reverence for commerce.

I really don't see post-Katrina Americans demanding less "gummint."

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Obama has repeatedly cast those moves as necessities born of the economic disaster he inherited from former President George W. Bush. But, he has also insisted -- during the campaign and again while in the White House -- that he believes there is a place for government in peoples' lives.

>>>>

indeed. at the center, between you and the bank, between you and your doctor, between you and your church, between you and your kids school, between you and the products you wish to buy.


but not in the way of any foreign government or terrorist. that would be wrong.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Obama's constant excuse that he inherited this bad economy with the 9.7% unemployment rate is a lie and pure BS. While every new in-comming president starts with a recession, his policies determine if it gets worse or better. Pres. Reagan in fact came into office with one of the worst, and it was his policies that gave us one of the best ever in only about a year or so. What we're seeing now is Obama's Communist agenda taking hold with an economy to match, and it'll get much worse. While inflation hasn't kicked in yet, it will when the feds will have to print money--a la the pre-Hitler Deutchmark--in order to pay for all the bills that'll come due from Obama's inept give-aways and the mishandling of our economy. It won't be long before the American people will scoff at Obama's and the liberal Democrap Socialist Parties excuse that they inherited this economy from GWB. One sure thing though, Obama will replace Jimmy Carter as the worst president in our countries history.

Posted by: armpeg | September 23, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

The gov't shouldn't be in the business of deciding winners and losers. They shouldn't have bailed out AIG, Fannie Mae, or the auto industry. Our economy is built on the opportunity for success and failure. We shouldn't be subsidizing failure. It is not my responsibility to pay for other's health care or their mortgage. We need to limit the scope of what the government can/should do. Protect our nation's border-BOTH of them (the 9/11 terrorists came from Canada not Mexico), provide basic infrastructure such as roads and bridges, and provide education opportunities. The government should prosecute ABUSES in our economy but they shouldn't be running it. I don't want to live an Western European-socialist model economy. We have proven our way is superior so why should we apologize for it?

Posted by: TexasProud1 | September 23, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

POLITICAL BLOG SPAMMING / HIJACKING:

Spawn of a paid disinfo brigade -- on the public's dime?

http://nowpublic.com/world/govt-fusion-center-spying-pretext-harass-and-censor

Posted by: scrivener50 | September 23, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Interesting poll. As Cillizza says, the pendulum swings. Does meeting with world leaders count as "doing too much" or is it just pocketbook issues that make people feel this way?

Posted by: justjoeking | September 23, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

It's actually a quite hilarious form of reverse pyschology.

Posted by: JakeD


Purely pavlovian. watch this:


Sarah Palin is one of the most intelligent, thoughtful, brilliant, respected and hopeful politicians of our time. With all her experience and knowledge, she will easily beat the charlatan we now have in the next election.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

LOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

her hearthrob drindl has shunned his advances and gone off the range this week.

there is nothing weaker than a liberal with none of their friends around to cheer on the idiocy.

Why do you think Barry won't go on Fox?

what will the lemmings do with the head lemming boycotting the site?

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Well, I don't think the "no results" crowd are all right-wing reactionaries.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

Considering that the administration is dominated by the left in all three houses, no results is an ideal situation. We must hope that this continues until the buyers remorse election next year. And given the stature of Liberal leadership, it is wholly expected.

the main result of a herd of lemmings is to jump off a cliff and die. same situation. the best we can do is not folow the head lemming.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

snowbama:

He must really be rattled, because he forgot "Go to hell, racist swine!" too.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

GoldAndTanzanite:

"Walk away"? As in "... for you to even invoke his name, much less insult his memory, represents yet another low for someone I really didn't think could go any lower.

Chris Cillizza: I object to this abuse. This is incredible. We recommend a commission be sent to Naboo to ascertain the truth."

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

chrissy, the sewer rat emerges to proclaim her high standards of journalism.

you forgot to rant about troll, troll, troll.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Didn't he already say how it is "free advertising"?

"Promptly after I do this, one of your pinhead freinds does a hurried search to 'expose' the source ..." triumphantly posting a link in most cases. It's actually a quite hilarious form of reverse pyschology.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Come on guys we all know that JakeD and snowbama / king_of_zouk are irritating people of low intelligence and absent integrity. Both their posts are vomit on the sidewalk and dignifying them with responses is just encouragement. Walk on by.

JakeD claims to be a Stanford grad yet doesn't have a GED graduate's grasp of science or logic; snowbama is a lifer in a mental institution. These are valueless people.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

And you REALLY need to hang around with some smarter people

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It is amazing that you have so quickly learned the weak and ineffective arguments of the left.

I guess if all conservatives are simply stoopid, then you and your over-the-top geniuses on the left can rule with no questions asked.

didn't you proclaim the other day how much better you are then so many others.

you sound like al Franken - better, smarter, wiser, etc.

Except for one thing.

so your case comes down to "I'm smart, you're not. end of story." uh huh.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Oh, yeah. Re: free advertising. Um, how is it advertising for them if you don't mention the author's name?

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 23, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

You're right again, DDAWD. But a lot of the people trying to whip up anti-administration sentiment are using the "no results" line to sway the people who are hurting.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 23, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

"I assume that what really bothers you is that you have no reply to the wisdom in the text.

Posted by: snowbama"

People have plenty of replies. It's not their fault that you just ignore them in favor of looking for the next work to plagiarize.

And you REALLY need to hang around with some smarter people. Are the ones you associate with the type who would read your "free advertising" nonsense and say to themselves "O-M-G he makes such a good point!"?

Posted by: DDAWD | September 23, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

The inflation will come soon enough, don't worry.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse


It is not so much that the facts are wrong, but the logic. Comparing Obama to Carter, it is noted that inflation soared under Carter. And then the increase in monetary supply is used to suggest that Obama's policies will increase inflation.

And yet, there is no inflation to date, and we are trying to climb out of a recession. So, a false link to Carter-era economics.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 23, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

"Perhaps we could have reduced unemployment by massively increasing the number of government jobs. Yet it seems like the same people who scream "no results" are also the ones screaming "less government."

Posted by: mikeinmidland"

Well, I don't think the "no results" crowd are all right-wing reactionaries. I think a lot of the "no results" people are the ones who are really hurting for some results.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 23, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

The problem for the Republicans is that they grew the government more then anyone in the past when Bush was president. Also I would bet that of the 49 people who said that the governemnt was doing too much also think that a public option is bad. When the healthcare reform package passes with Co-ops instead of a public option that number will flip back to 40 to 45%. Another reason why Baucas' plan will pass with Snowe (and maybe Collins) voting for it.

Posted by: AndyR3 | September 23, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Please make up your mind, snowbama.

First you call me "mikeindimland" and tell me to ignore your posts. Then you suggest that I should try to refute them.

I am probably the one (on THIS site) who most frequently googles "your" text. I have never been on Kos or Moveon. Frankly I spend too much time here as it is, no time for any more.

I don't bother to refute your "facts" because #1 they aren't yours, and #2, they are mostly opinion. If one of your favorite authors calls Obama a global apologist, that's just twisting the fact that Obama is popular in the world because he is not arrogant. We can debate whether it is better to be humble or arrogant, but there is no data to suggest that humility equals failure.

When *you* post something, it is usually hyperbole, along the lines that Obama has failed at everything. For instance, that he can't pass any of his legislative priorities--that's hyperbole, since he has yet to have a legislative failure. When health care is passed (and it will pass) you will undoubtedly claim he failed if he doesn't get the public option. That ignores the fact that he will get most of what he wanted and the public option was always a bargaining chip.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 23, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Chancellor Cillizza: The chair recognizes the Senator from the sovereign system of Naboo.

Senator Snowbama: Supreme Chancellor, delegates of the Senate, a tragedy has occurred ... which started right here with the taxation of trade routes ... and has now engulfed our entire planet ... in the oppression of the Trade Federation.

Senator G&T: This is outrageous! I object to the Senator's statements!

Chancellor Cillizza: The chair does not recognize the Senator from the Trade Federation at this time (I thought we banned him?)

Senator Snowbama: To state our allegations, I present Queen Dottydo, recently elected ruler of the Naboo, who speaks on our behalf.

Queen Dottydo: Honorable representatives of the Republic, I come to you under the gravest of circumstances. The Naboo system has been invaded by the droid armies of the Trade--

[interrupted by Senator G&T]

Senator G&T: I object! There is no proof! This is incredible. We recommend a commission be sent to Naboo to ascertain the truth.

(mikeinmidland: that was "cut and paste" from Star Wars, Episode I: The Phantom Menace ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Obama loves to hear himself talk – about himself. In just 41 speeches so this year, not including this week's big speech at the United Nations, Obama has talked about himself nearly 1,200 times – 1,198 to be exact. (That breaks down to 1,121 “I”s and just 77 "me"s.)Nar-cis-sism – noun 1. inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity--Dictionary.com In mythology, Narcissus was the guy who fell in love with his own reflection.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

someone I really didn't think could go any lower.

Chris Cillizza: I object to this abuse.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite


the bottom feeder cries for mommy. the gutter and sewer is her territory. keep out.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

FYI: defamation of the deceased is not a legally cognizable action.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Copying and pasting without attribution is plagiary, which is stealing from the author. Why should we pay attention to the opinions of a thief?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

not exactly. A value must be attached. I would discount any liberal writings as not worth the effort to press the keys needed to operate the copy function.

but economists, historians and columnists trade in words and are usualy paid for them. If I were to seek pay, then that would be stealing. If I were to submit them to a journal as my own or in a term paper, that would be plaigerism.

but pasting them on a blog, with no reward to me, is actually a form of free advertising that the author should welcome.

Promptly after I do this, one of your pinhead freinds does a hurried search to "expose" the source and post the location. this is typically a reader who would never venture far from Kos or moveon.

win/win

I don't suppose VDH would mind if I selectivlly post snippets of his columns. It is our duty to beat back the frontiers of ignorance and this is a nest of the unstudied and unreflective.

I assume that what really bothers you is that you have no reply to the wisdom in the text.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Thanks.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 23, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

You have no idea. Capt. Kenneth Fox was a hard-nosed SOB (he died last year of mesothelioma).

==

My father was a decent and compassionate man and for you to even invoke his name, much less insult his memory, represents yet another low for someone I really didn't think could go any lower.

Chris Cillizza: I object to this abuse.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Agreed, DDAWD. And no matter how many times it is explained that unemployment is a lagging indicator and it will take 18 months, people still expect immediate results.

Perhaps we could have reduced unemployment by massively increasing the number of government jobs. Yet it seems like the same people who scream "no results" are also the ones screaming "less government."

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 23, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

mikeindimland

my posts are meant for thinking individuals, you may ignore them.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I think the issue isn't so much the size of the government, but the growing perception that Obama is doing so many things that he isn't doing any of them particularly well. This is fueled by the fact that unemployment hasn't turned around. People are wondering why there are no results yet and my be blaming Obama's ambitious agenda for it.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 23, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

did he wear one of those flag pins to show off his fake patriotism?

Oh wait, that "sell by" date passed already. we are already to the "sell by" date of afghan being the central war.

Oh wait, I forgot, it's not actually called war any longer. and no longer important to win.

I sure hope those mad bombers they caught yesterday were read their rights. and not asked any questions by any cops who might be considered intimidating. and I hope their privacy was not compromised by any eavesdropping. and if they didn't get to use the backpacks for thier intended purpose, they should be entitled to a full refund.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse


Frankly snowbama, given your history, it is assumed that whatever you paste here is not yours. Any other author would have more credibility than you, so posting their name or a complete citation would increase the chances that others would even read it. If you provide a link, some people will click on it, and that helps the author.

Copying and pasting without attribution is plagiary, which is stealing from the author. Why should we pay attention to the opinions of a thief?

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 23, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

snowbama:

You have no idea. Capt. Kenneth Fox was a hard-nosed SOB (he died last year of mesothelioma).

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Is the reason for the citation a desire on your part to simply dismiss the author without considering the ideas? this sounds like pretty typical Liberal methodology. Like crying racist to shut down any dissent.

but this is not a term paper, not a university and not a for-profit site.

If you all are so smart, try defeating one single point I raise on the merits. We used to do this on the fix before the emotional and unbalanced you-know-who ( well if he ever stopped changing his name, is that a Lib thing - barry, Van, chrissy, etc.) showed up to turn this blog into a kindergarten sandbox.

I wonder if having a girls name had anything to do with the outcome?

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

More proof that most people have little or no practical knowledge of government.

I'm skeptical of poll questions like this, since these opinions are often based on ignorance, not informed principles and knowledge, and are thus lightly held and subject to abrupt change.

I think the more important numbers are going to be satisfaction and trust.

Posted by: nodebris | September 23, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade:

I posted my first salvo for your requested "Should adultery be illegal again?" debate in the prior "Most Important Number" thread.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

the loon arrives. can't the EPA do something about that particular form of pollution?

We will now be treated to insults, raving lunacy, communism, misogyny, radical feminism, eco facism, and endless personal details too sordid to contemplate.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Did snowbama actually use a citation? Duck! I see some pigs flying.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | September 23, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who still believes in deregulation and free markets belongs where snowbama is.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 23, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

The fact is this: the American public is not racist. In fact, we're downright evenhanded -- we elect incompetents of all color to high office. We don't just elect Jimmy Carter president -- we elect the black Jimmy Carter, Barack Obama.

Carter surrendered Afghanistan to the Soviets; Obama is on the verge of surrendering Afghanistan to the Taliban.

Carter pushed for nuclear disarmament. Under his administration, officials at the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, the U.S. State Department and the White House met with leaders of the disarmament movement. He offered a personal endorsement for SANE, the nation's leading disarmament organization. Carter even cited a discussion with his 9-year-old daughter, Amy, about nuclear weaponry. Obama is no less committed to unilateral U.S. disarmament. He recently surrendered the missile defense shield over Eastern Europe, and he has repeatedly stated that his goal is a "world without nuclear weapons" -- a goal that demonstrates naivete bordering on the treasonous (Russia, China, Iran and North Korea will never disarm their weaponry or stop development without some form of coercion).
Carter inflated the currency dramatically. Under Carter, the inflation rate started at 6.5 percent in 1977 and increased each year, ending at 13.5 percent in 1980. Under Obama, the nation's monetary supply (bank reserves and currency in circulation) has increased by over 100 percent since September 2008.
But in the largest sense, Obama and Carter bear striking and disturbing resemblances. We can only hope they bear one last resemblance: a one-term presidency.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Why aren't you two going on and on about how much Colonel (I love that!) Qaddafi loves Barak HUSSEIN Obama?

"For Mr. Obama personally, however, he had only warm words, calling on the collected nations to welcome “our son” on the occasion of his first United Nations appearance. “We are content and happy if Obama can stay forever as the president of America,”

NYT

Posted by: shrink2 | September 23, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Texas,

Being an impartial referee is a good start. But there are a whole host of things that governments do, that are best done by them. Public safety, national defense, etc.

Oh, and universal health care. :)

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 23, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

I think a sports analogy fits here; most people want government to be an impartial referee. They step in when someone violates the rules (ACORN, Fannie Mae, the entire financial industry) but basically stay out of the spotlight. When the referee is getting attention it normally isn't a good thing.

Posted by: TexasProud1 | September 23, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

So does this prove the success of the GOP's anti-government/anti-Obama message or are Americans simply wobbling on the fence regarding the very tricky issue of government involvement in their daily lives?

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Posted by: parkerfl1 | September 23, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

ModerateVoter:

I'm always right, and I don't trust government even when I need it (but that's probably from 40 years as a defense attorney ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

the bungler in chief:

Then there is the catalogue of Mr. Obama's embarrassing moments on the world stage, a list which includes: giving England's Queen Elizabeth II an iPod with his speeches on it; giving British Prime Minister Gordon Brown a collection of DVDs that were not formatted to the European standard (by contrast, Mr. Brown gave Mr. Obama an ornamental desk-pen holder made from the oak timbers of Victorian anti-slaver HMS Gannet, among other historically significant gifts); calling "Austrian" a language; bowing to the Saudi king; releasing a photo of a conference call with Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in which the president was showing the soles of his shoes to the camera (an Arab insult); saying "let me be absolutely clear. Israel is a strong friend of Israel's"; saying the United States was "one of the largest Muslim countries in the world"; suggesting Arabic translators be shifted from Iraq to Afghanistan where Arabic is not a native language; sending a letter to French President Jacques Chirac when Nicolas Sarkozy was the president of France; holding a town-hall meeting in France and not calling on a single French citizen; and referring to "Cinco de Cuatro" in front of the Mexican ambassador when he meant Cinco de Mayo. Also of note was Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton giving Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov a "reset" button with the Russian word for "overcharge."

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Of course the government is doing too much. It's certainly doing more than it ever intended to, or wanted to. Public sentiment about this issue will peak with the passage of health-care reform, and ebb over the next few years. More good-government regulation (banking) but no more big-government spending.

The stimulus was a one-time thing. That money will keep going out over the next 2 years, and the results will be reported, but it's a done deal.

And people keep forgetting that the so-called "bail-outs" were either loans or equity purchases. We may not get all the money back, but we'll get most. Many banks have already paid it all back. Even AIG has already paid back one-third of their loans.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 23, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Jaked,

You are right. I meant Americans do not trust government until they need it.

Posted by: ModerateVoter | September 23, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Barack Obama’s Gallup approval rating of 52 percent may well be lower at this stage of his presidency than any US leader in recent times with the exception of Bill Clinton. But he is still worshipped with messiah-like adoration at the United Nations, and is considerably more popular with many of the 192 members of the UN than he is with the American people.

The president scores highly at the UN for refusing to project American values and military might on the world stage, with rare exceptions like the war against the Taliban. His appeasement of Iran, his bullying of Israel, his surrender to Moscow, his call for a nuclear free world, his siding with Marxists in Honduras, his talk of a climate change deal, have all won him plaudits in the large number of UN member states where US foreign policy has traditionally been viewed with contempt.

Simply put, Barack Obama is loved at the UN because he largely fails to advance real American leadership. This is a dangerous strategy of decline that will weaken US power and make her far more vulnerable to attack.

As we saw last week with his shameful surrender to Moscow over missile defence, the president is perfectly happy to undermine America’s allies and gut its strategic defences while currying favour with enemies and strategic competitors. The missile defence debacle is rightly viewed as a betrayal by the Poles and the Czechs, and Washington has clearly give the impression that it cares little about those who have bravely stood shoulder to shoulder with their US allies in Iraq, Afghanistan and the wider war on terror.

The Obama administration is now overseeing and implementing the biggest decline in American global power since Jimmy Carter. Unfortunately it may well take another generation for the United States to recover.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

ModerateVoter:

Perhaps you meant to address that to, you know, the person who brought it up? I simply am agreeing with "scrivener50" for once.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

At least I agree with the "Americans Can't Trust Their Government" part ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

That is until you actually need something from it and then it is that they are not doing enough.

Posted by: ModerateVoter | September 23, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

By Victor Davis Hanson

Note how baffled the administration is by sinking polls, tea parties, town halls, and, in general, “them” — the vast middle class, which, as we learned during the campaign, clings to guns and Bibles, and which has now been written off as blinkered, racist, and xenophobic. The earlier characterization of rural Pennsylvania has been expanded to include all of Middle America.

For many in the academic community who have not worked with their hands, run businesses, or ventured far off campus, Middle America is an exotic place inhabited by aborigines who bowl, don’t eat arugula, and need to be reminded to inflate their tires. They are an emotional lot, of some value on campus for their ability to “fix” broken things like pipes and windows, but otherwise wisely ignored. Professor Chu, Obama’s energy secretary, summed up the sense of academic disdain that permeates this administration with his recent sniffing about the childish polloi: “The American people . . . just like your teenage kids, aren’t acting in a way that they should act.”
It is the role of the university, from a proper distance, to help them, by making sophisticated, selfless decisions on health care and the environment that the unwashed cannot grasp are really in their own interest — deluded as they are by Wal-Mart consumerism, Elmer Gantry evangelicalism, and Sarah Palin momism. The tragic burden of an academic is to help the oppressed, but blind, majority.

In the world of the university, a Van Jones — fake name, fake accent, fake underclass pedigree, fake almost everything — is a dime a dozen. Ward Churchill fabricated everything from his degree to his ancestry, and was given tenure, high pay, and awards for his beads, buckskin, and Native American–like locks. Skip Gates’s fussy little theatrical fit at a Middle American was not his first and will not be his last.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

At least I agree with the "Americans Can't Trust Their Government" part ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Americans Can't Trust Their Government Until Team Obama Heeds This Call:

DISMANTLE THE BUSH-CHENEY LEGACY 'GESTAPO' THAT TORTURES AND TERRORIZES UNJUSTLY TARGETED AMERICANS...

...MAKING A MOCKERY OF THE RULE OF LAW.

President Obama has been co-opted into becoming an enabler of a secretive, federally overseen "multi-agency coordinated action" program of extrajudicial targeting and inhumane high-tech punishment...

...misusing federally-funded volunteer organizations and secret weapons programs to subvert the rule of law.

This nationwide, federal-local apparatus has deployed a civilian vigilante army fronted by federally-funded community policing and anti-terrorism units that covertly places GPS tracking devices to stalk, persecute, vandalize and harass many thousands of unjustly targeted citizens and their families...

...reportedly, even when they seek medical treatment at health care facilities.

"The program" also misuses government surveillance operations to censor, and maliciously tamper with, the telecommunications of many thousands of the unjustly targeted -- and, victims maintain, funnels surveillance data to citizen "community stalker" harassers.

An array of "programs of personal financial destruction" decimates the finances of "target" families -- facilitated by the local interception of U.S. mail and the alteration of billing and financial statements.

And microwave / laser "directed energy weapons" are deployed to silently TORTURE American citizens...

...degrading their health, inducing weakness, confusion, illness, even "slow-kill" death -- a gross violation of human rights, government-enabled crimes against humanity.

An American genocide, hiding in plain sight.

And no authorities will investigate -- invoking the "Gulag" tactic of dismissing those who seek justice as "delusional."

Team Obama: Wake up and smell the police state that is co-opting your administration, making a mockery of democracy and the rule of law at the grassroots.

BAN the warrantless tracking and/or surveillance of American citizens...

BAN the use of silent, injury- and illness-incuding "directed energy weapons" on American citizens -- weapons of mass destruction that have no place in domestic law enforcement.

http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america

OR (if link is corrupted / disabled):

http://My.NowPublic.com/scrivener RE: "GESTAPO USA"

Posted by: scrivener50 | September 23, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Who here thinks that GM (Government Motors) should be offering a "money back guarantee" on new cars? The shareholders at Ford would revolt if they did that. This is EXACTLY the type of unfair competition we were warning about! It's just incredible to think how much money will be wasted if Obama takes over the healthcare industry as well.

Posted by: JakeD | September 23, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

who's that bozo who introduced Khaddafi? some banana republic propoganda minister? It's like dum and dummer. Let's see who can bash america worse. close call.

Posted by: snowbama | September 23, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

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