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Charlie Crist, Independent?



Should Florida Gov. Charlie Crist run for the Senate as an independent? Photo by Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg News

In a radio interview this morning with the Washington Times, Florida Gov. Charlie Crist (R) seemed to rule out the possibility of running for the Senate this fall as an independent.

"What I'm doing is running as a Republican," said Crist. "I'm proud of my party, proud to be from the party of Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Reagan, Teddy Roosevelt."

But should he have?

There is considerable disagreement on that point among Florida and national Republicans. Let's unpack the argument.

Polling conducted over the last few months shows that Crist has fallen behind former state House Speaker Marco Rubio in the Republican primary thanks in large part to the abandonment of his candidacy by self-identified conservative voters.

In a January Quinnipiac University poll, Rubio led Crist among conservatives 52 percent to 39 percent while holding an overall 47 percent to 44 percent edge. A survey conducted in February by Republican pollster Tony Fabrizio painted an even darker picture for Crist; Rubio led 52 percent to 27 percent among self-identified conservative voters who comprised roughly two thirds of the Republican primary electorate.

And, while the 60 percent to 28 percent lead for Rubio in a new Public Policy Polling survey seems FAR too high, some of the numbers inside the poll have to be concerning for Crist; just one in five Republican voters would like to see him return as governor in 2011 while a meager 14 percent want to see him in the Senate next year.

Other internal polling conducted by Democrats and Republicans that we are aware of casts a similar dismal picture of the race for Crist. Crist's problems with conservative voters that have led him to this point -- most notably his rather public support for President Obama -- aren't the sort of things that they are likely to forget any time soon.

And, in a survey conducted by Research 2000 for the liberal Daily Kos blog, Crist as an independent would clearly be relevant in a general election fight. Crist took 33 percent to 32 percent for Meek and 27 percent for Rubio in a three-way ballot test -- buoyed by his strong favorable rating (58 percent) among independents.

Dave Beattie, a Democratic pollster who does work in Florida, argued, however, that a Crist bid would almost certainly be regarded as "blatant political self preservation" and would, ultimately, bolster Democrats' chances of winning the seat.

"Republicans are doing well in Florida and other states because Independent voters lean toward them as the alternative to Democrats, not because the independents strongly support the Republican," explained Beattie. "Crist as an Independent candidate would provide the alternative for them to tell the major parties 'pox on both your houses.'"

All that said, it's important to remember that the Florida primary isn't until August 24 -- meaning that Crist has five months to re-frame the race in a way in which he can win it.

And, over the past month or so he -- and his campaign -- have grown increasingly aggressive in attacking Rubio. The latest example? Crist's seeming suggestion that Rubio charged not only a $130 haircut but also a back waxing to a state party credit card during his time as speaker of the state House. (And, no, we didn't think we would ever write that last sentence. Ever.)

Crist communications director Andrea Saul insisted that the only people talking about the "fantasy" of the governor running as an independent are the Rubio forces who "realize that as the truth comes out about Rubio's use of public office for private gain, he has as much chance of winning as Charlie Crist spending more than $20 bucks on a haircut."

Rhetoric aside, it's clear that the Crist team is going to make an all-out assault on Rubio to try and ding his image as a national conservative icon over the next few months. And, Crist has the financial wherewithal to conduct such a carpet-bombing campaign.

At the end of 2009, Crist showed more than $7.5 million in the bank -- a staggering total that speaks to his continued fundraising strength in the face of an increasingly difficult road to the Republican nomination. Rubio, by contrast, had $2.1 million in the bank at the end of last year.

(Rubio allies, in a memo set to be released later this week, argue that the financial gap is actually far smaller as Crist has raised a considerable amount of money that can only be spent in a general election. According to their calculations, Crist has $4.7 million to spend on the primary to Rubio's $1.95 milllon.)

For Crist to drastically change the dynamic of the race, he needs to get up on television soon with ads that define Rubio to the average Republican primary voter before Rubio can define himself fully.

The x-factor that hovers over all of this "will he or won't he" chatter is that Crist has made no secret of his desire to wind up on a national ticket some time in the relatively near future -- did you think that endorsement of John McCain in the 2008 Florida primary was just for kicks? -- and running as an independent (or even seriously entertaining the possibility) would essentially foreclose any chance of him being the presidential or vice presidential nominee for the GOP.

The calculation that Crist must make before the state's April 30 filing deadline is whether he believes he can win as a Republican or whether he wants to try and extend his political career by running as an independent.

Would he take a hit if he switched to an independent bid? Absolutely. Would it be better than abruptly ending his political career with a loss in a race that he once led by 50+ points? Absolutely.

By Chris Cillizza  |  March 9, 2010; 12:07 PM ET
Categories:  Senate  
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Comments

This situation in Florida seems very similar to Joe Lieberman's in Connecticut in his last election. Recall that Joe lost the Democratic primary, then ran in the general as an independent ... and won, becuase he received votes from all three segments of the voting population. Is there a lesson there for Charlie Crist?

Posted by: jfryan05 | March 10, 2010 7:00 AM | Report abuse

Marco Rubio is the real deal. He will be a consistent opponent against Obama's hard left agenda. Charlie Christ, on the other hand, will actively collaborate to help Obama pass his agenda. The choice for voters is pretty obvious. Why should Republican primary voters vote for a candidate who will help pass an agenda they loathe? Rubio will crush Meeks in the general because Meeks is way too liberal to win statewide. He voted for Obama's health care bill that includes billions in cuts to Medicare. Good luck winning in Florida with that kind of voting record.

Posted by: Punditocracy | March 10, 2010 12:38 AM | Report abuse

Typical WAPO BS... trying to promote the RINOs

Posted by: Obama_TRAITOR_in_Chief | March 9, 2010 11:16 PM | Report abuse

Al Queda is VERY WELL KNOWN for using multiple bomb plots - and multiple planes in its attacks.


So, instead of questioning the Detroit bomber on the possibility of additional bombs, Obama gives the terrorists a lawyer.


We have to wait 5 weeks for any intelligence.


THAT IS PUTTING THE LIVES OF AMERICANS AT RISK UNNECESSARILY.


Obama SHOULD RESIGN IMMEDIATELY FOR JUST THAT.


This is not an impeachable offense ??? Yes it is.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 9, 2010 10:57 PM | Report abuse


OK bsimon1 what does Obama want to do with the fishing then ????

He wants to stop fishermen from fishing right? What are the penalties if one continues to do what one is doing now ??


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 9, 2010 10:56 PM | Report abuse

It's the RINOs you want running unless you want the GOP go extinct. I want Republicans to fade into the long night so I hope the teabaggers like Rubio get the nod. Unelectable psychotic freaks, repellent to anyone with an education or the smallest twinge if morality.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Typical WAPO BS... trying to promote the RINOs

Posted by: Obama_TRAITOR_in_Chief | March 9, 2010 8:26 PM | Report abuse

"far leftist"

do they manufacture you guys with some kind of stamping press? Like coins from a mint?

Anyone who thinks there's any actual "left" in America since 1939 is an ignorant idiot

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 7:20 PM | Report abuse

If the Republicans could figure out what they are all about and who is their leader, there might be a chance for one or another to take charge. Right now, it looks kind of like a pen full of farm animals looking for someone to show them the way out, even if it is to the slaughterhouse.

Posted by: ronjeske | March 9, 2010 6:00 PM
=============================
Just saw this thread again.

Both parties need to go through this. It is healthy in my opinion.

Look at the decline of the democratic party into a far leftist lock step crowd caring only about special interests, payoffs and corruption.

They followed the GOP right off the cliff.

Posted by: Cryos | March 9, 2010 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Oh looky. Piss-Jug Jack is talking about insanity.

Look in the mirror, meth-boi.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 6:44 PM | Report abuse

"We have to pass the bill to find out what is in it"

- Nancy Pelosi talking about Obama's health care bill


HAS COMPLETE INSANITY COME TO WASHINGTON ???

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 9, 2010 6:39 PM | Report abuse

If the Republicans could figure out what they are all about and who is their leader, there might be a chance for one or another to take charge. Right now, it looks kind of like a pen full of farm animals looking for someone to show them the way out, even if it is to the slaughterhouse.

Posted by: ronjeske | March 9, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Crist sounds whiny and lame. Is that all he can come up with? Must be pretty tough.

Posted by: ohioan | March 9, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

I can see Rubio getting his a** waxed. He does have that Fem Dejour kinda air about him.

No telling what other kind of depravity Rubio is involved in but I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

Posted by: captainkona | March 9, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

I haven't looked at the Post's comments section in quite a while until I read through this thread. Wow! The comments here are totally idiotic.

Posted by: Renu1 | March 9, 2010 5:16 PM | Report abuse

37th & O is hopped up on hallucinogens again & writes
"OBAMA TO MAKE FISHING A FEDERAL CRIME."

However, the ESPN article he quotes from doesn't have any facts that support the above allegation. What it does have is innuendo, and plenty of it:

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/saltwater/news/story?id=4975762

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

OBAMA TO MAKE FISHING A FEDERAL CRIME.


ESPN reports:


The Obama administration will accept no more public input for a federal strategy that could prohibit U.S. citizens from fishing the nation's oceans, coastal areas, Great Lakes, and even inland waters.

Another joke from Obama.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 9, 2010 4:56 PM | Report abuse

I have lived in Florida for the past 28 years. I consider myself as a moderate. In that time, we have had good governors: See Bob Graham. We have also had bad governors: See Jeb Bush. Mr. Crist falls somewhere in between. He wants to be our next Senator (That would be an improvement over Mel Martinez, the GOP incumbent.) He would be a decent Senator. BUT, he is running against a true right-wing crackpot for the GOP nomination. In a State where there are numerous fellow crackpots who all vote in primaries, Crist is not likely to get the nomination. If he really wants the job, he had better run as an independent.

Posted by: sameolddoc | March 9, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Missing the barn as usual, zouk. I swear, you crack me up, wrong about literally everything. Including about, spectacularly, my "artillery."

I quit my last FTE gig at MS. Told my manager I didn't respect what I was working on, project Longhorn, released as Vista. I said I couldn't feel proud of it and that I expected it to be a flop, and I was right.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

So Ped did not make the cut at MSFT. No surprise there.

all envy and bile as usual. If only everyone else was as smart as she.

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

@Blarg: co-sign on the dotcom collapse.
 
It gave me a nasty couple of months, took longer to find a job than it ever had before or since, including after the surge of layoffs in 11/08.  It takes me 4-6 weeks to land a new gig, and my income hasn’t suffered.  
 
But it was a good thing overall, because there were a lot of self-impressed mediocrities in the industry before 2001, script-kiddies and HTML “coders” with no experience expecting $120K.  The talented ones like myself if-I-may-be-so-bold bubbled up to the top while the goto-guys went-to taxicabs and moved back in with their parents.  And good riddance.
 
But the industry now is bizarre,  In 1989 Microsoft was a vivacious place where inquiry was the rule and ideas were welcome; nowadays it’s like the Kremlin and someone with original ideas is a protruding nail waiting to be hammered flat.  NOTHING going on there, and the fact of not a single real win in over six years hasn’t sunk in yet.  It’s all about consistAncy and uniformity and gimmicks, with jerkoffs like Brian Valentine reporting to crude jerks like Steve Ballmer.  In 1989 people worked till 9PM because they loved their work; now they work till 11PM and are strangers to their families because they’re terrified of their next performance review.  And they’re still chasing the pyrite glint of cheap foreign labor and failing to note that what they get out of IDC is a steaming heap of useless crap.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

The Bush tax cuts were in response to the tech crash (you know the thing in spring 2001 liberals act like didn't happen; you know the thing in combo with the dot-com crash that made the "surpluses" disappear?

==

Surpluses that were real in sneer-quotes; blaming the deficits on the dotcom crash instead of tax cuts on the wealthy and two unfunded wars of choice.

I’m sticking with “lying freak” in your case and I think it’s generous.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 4:23 PM
===============================
The tech crash wiped out surpluses as well as people's retirement savings. Fact.

I stated below what I think of the wars also. "Tax cuts on the wealthy" is such a lie. Lower brackets got a bigger percentage cut but of course the wealthy got more in $. They pay the majority.

40+% of people don't even pay income tax and many get back thousands a year in refundable credits. So how are you supposed to give a "tax cut" from people who already TAKE?

Posted by: Cryos | March 9, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Cryos writes
"The Bush tax cuts were in response to the tech crash (you know the thing in spring 2001 liberals act like didn't happen; you know the thing in combo with the dot-com crash that made the "surpluses" disappear?"

In 2000 Bush campaigned on cutting taxes because of the projected surpluses. After the economy crashed he changed his tune to cutting taxes to stimulate growth. In short: tax cuts were the goal, how they were justified was irrelevant to him.

"So what sense does your bringing up the tax cuts make? Just trying to get your liberal chip on your shoulder crying out?"

That cutting taxes required borrowing & that China is one of the major lenders from which we borrow. When you boost spending (like fighting two wars) and cut revenue (like piling on tax cuts), you have to borrow or print money. Were China not an economic juggernaut, from whom would this money have been borrowed? That's why I brought up the tax cuts.

"It is pretty simple. The dotcom and tech bubbles made the service industry explode."

Sure they did, and I'm glad they did. I've been working in software for 18 years. Without it I probably would've been a middle manager somewhere, which would've paid less and been less intellectually stimulating. For all the problems caused by irrational exuberance in the tech boom years, the overall good has far outweighed the setbacks.

Change is inevitable, the question is whether you work with it, or fight it. Its not 1980 anymore, or 1950, for that matter. The heydays of American manufacturing are over. We can rebuild our economy by figuring out what the trends of the future are, or cry in our beer and wish for the days of the Big Three making all the cars and Big Blue making 3 computers a year.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 4:24 PM
=========================
At least you are realistic and aren't towing the common liberal lines about how Bush killed manufacturing. I agree with you regarding planning for the future; I also work in software and have seen benefits.

The tax cuts are a mixed bag. Some of the tax cuts actually increased revenue. Finding that tipping point is difficult. When the government taxes too much they lose revenue because the same dollar isn't taxed as many times before it becomes entrenched in the inefficient bureaucracy.

The borrowing from China I would say is actually because of the wars and other factors not tax cuts. I don't agree with the Iraq war and I think we just need to cut from Afghanistan. It is a tribal society and will stay that way. Big money pit.

Posted by: Cryos | March 9, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Cryos writes
"The Bush tax cuts were in response to the tech crash (you know the thing in spring 2001 liberals act like didn't happen; you know the thing in combo with the dot-com crash that made the "surpluses" disappear?"

In 2000 Bush campaigned on cutting taxes because of the projected surpluses. After the economy crashed he changed his tune to cutting taxes to stimulate growth. In short: tax cuts were the goal, how they were justified was irrelevant to him.

"So what sense does your bringing up the tax cuts make? Just trying to get your liberal chip on your shoulder crying out?"

That cutting taxes required borrowing & that China is one of the major lenders from which we borrow. When you boost spending (like fighting two wars) and cut revenue (like piling on tax cuts), you have to borrow or print money. Were China not an economic juggernaut, from whom would this money have been borrowed? That's why I brought up the tax cuts.

"It is pretty simple. The dotcom and tech bubbles made the service industry explode."

Sure they did, and I'm glad they did. I've been working in software for 18 years. Without it I probably would've been a middle manager somewhere, which would've paid less and been less intellectually stimulating. For all the problems caused by irrational exuberance in the tech boom years, the overall good has far outweighed the setbacks.

Change is inevitable, the question is whether you work with it, or fight it. Its not 1980 anymore, or 1950, for that matter. The heydays of American manufacturing are over. We can rebuild our economy by figuring out what the trends of the future are, or cry in our beer and wish for the days of the Big Three making all the cars and Big Blue making 3 computers a year.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Al Queda is VERY WELL KNOWN for using multiple bomb plots - and multiple planes in its attacks.


So, instead of questioning the Detroit bomber on the possibility of additional bombs, Obama gives the terrorists a lawyer.


We have to wait 5 weeks for any intelligence.


THAT IS PUTTING THE LIVES OF AMERICANS AT RISK UNNECESSARILY.


Obama SHOULD RESIGN IMMEDIATELY FOR JUST THAT.


This is not an impeachable offense ??? Yes it is.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 9, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

The Bush tax cuts were in response to the tech crash (you know the thing in spring 2001 liberals act like didn't happen; you know the thing in combo with the dot-com crash that made the "surpluses" disappear?
 
==
 
Surpluses that were real in sneer-quotes; blaming the deficits on the dotcom crash instead of tax cuts on the wealthy and two unfunded wars of choice.
 
I’m sticking with “lying freak” in your case and I think it’s generous.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Cryos says
"You forgot the biggest one. Without Ross Perot Bill Clinton would have lost."

That's probably true, though impossible to say for certain. I voted for Perot because I didn't trust Clinton. But I didn't want to keep Bush either. Had Perot not been an option, I don't know which lesser evil I'd have voted for.


Then Cryos says
"Yay for the most favored nation status to China and dotcom/tech bubble that prompted outsourcing."

I'm not really following you here. Take away China, and what happens instead? Maybe Japan would've recovered instead of stagnating. But take away the tech/dotcom boom, and the surplusses that Bush used to justify tax cuts evaporate. Its not even clear you can credit/blame Clinton for the tech/dotcom boom. Or are you claiming that was driven by opening China? to which I would say: huh? The microcomputer was already well on its way before Clinton was elected - though the average American didn't know anything about it. It seems I should dismiss your post as another misinformed partisan rant based on wishful thinking and selectively culled facts rather than critical analysis.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 3:50 PM
=============================
I put more supporting statements below.

You below are falling for the climate change scan and call me misinformed LOL. Ok wedge.

The Bush tax cuts were in response to the tech crash (you know the thing in spring 2001 liberals act like didn't happen; you know the thing in combo with the dot-com crash that made the "surpluses" disappear?

So what sense does your bringing up the tax cuts make? Just trying to get your liberal chip on your shoulder crying out?

It is pretty simple. The dotcom and tech bubbles made the service industry explode.

Posted by: Cryos | March 9, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

so what - why hand the election to the Democrats - ???

Rush is going to leave the country by the way.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 9, 2010 4:02 PM | Report abuse

I am sure that kind of potty humor and raucous ignorance is very popular at the queeny juice bar you hang out in.

In the real world, you are just a silly liberal communist, although Jane fonda is more butch than you, twinkie. At least she has some actual artillery between her legs, not a minitiare pea shooter. and real men like her.


did it ever occur to you that they are laughing AT you Ped. At the audacity to not care if everyone thinks you are a total fool?

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

what kind of loser goes to the trouble of placing foreign grammar marks on international words.
 
==
 
They’re called diacritics, you illiterate j ackass.
 
Who uses them?  People who can spell. 
 
PS. There’s no ‘a’ in “independent”

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Cryos says
"You forgot the biggest one. Without Ross Perot Bill Clinton would have lost."

That's probably true, though impossible to say for certain. I voted for Perot because I didn't trust Clinton. But I didn't want to keep Bush either. Had Perot not been an option, I don't know which lesser evil I'd have voted for.


Then Cryos says
"Yay for the most favored nation status to China and dotcom/tech bubble that prompted outsourcing."

I'm not really following you here. Take away China, and what happens instead? Maybe Japan would've recovered instead of stagnating. But take away the tech/dotcom boom, and the surplusses that Bush used to justify tax cuts evaporate. Its not even clear you can credit/blame Clinton for the tech/dotcom boom. Or are you claiming that was driven by opening China? to which I would say: huh? The microcomputer was already well on its way before Clinton was elected - though the average American didn't know anything about it. It seems I should dismiss your post as another misinformed partisan rant based on wishful thinking and selectively culled facts rather than critical analysis.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

here let me put it in knuckledragging economic terms for you liberals.

==

economics is a pseudoscience for half-educated saps

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 3:46 PM
=====================================
LOL. Whats a matter do my statements make too much sense you can't refute them? Rube.

Posted by: Cryos | March 9, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse


• Ted Olson, the former Bush administration solicitor general, told Politico that lawyers who represent unpopular clients "do so honorably" -- expressing the same view he did in 2007 when the issue was raised by others.

• The president of the American Bar Association called Cheney's attack "a divisive and diversionary tactic," which impugned "the character of lawyers who have sought to protect the fundamental rights of unpopular clients."


• And CNN even acknowledged that its use of the "Department of Jihad" headline -- with a question mark added -- as a chyron was offensive.

It has also emerged that both the Bush administration and Rudy Giuliani's law firm have employed lawyers who defended Gitmo detainees. '

ok, noa, here you are... sorry i've been too busy to pay attention to links. advertising biz has finally really recovered this quarter!

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/did_liz_cheneys_department_of_jihad_ad_backfire.php

Posted by: drindl | March 9, 2010 3:47 PM | Report abuse

here let me put it in knuckledragging economic terms for you liberals.

==

economics is a pseudoscience for half-educated saps

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Don't wet yourself, zouk. Or it's no dessert.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

more fractures on the right [bwhahaha]

Has Liz Cheney damaged her cause, and her reputation, by running an ad that questioned the loyalties of Justice Department lawyers who defended Guantanamo detainees? After a barrage of attacks on the ad, including some from prominent conservatives, it's worth asking the question.

Last week, Keep America Safe, the pro-torture advocacy group that Cheney co-chairs with Bill Kristol, ran a web ad that labeled seven DOJ lawyers who had previously represented detainees at Gitmo -- or simply filed amicus briefs in their cases -- "the Al Qaeda Seven."

"Whose values do they share,?" it asked, while flashing a picture of Osama Bin Laden. The ad also flashed a shot of a headline that appeared on a conservative website: "Department of Jihad."

Since then, the reaction -- from conservatives, liberals, and just about everyone in between -- has been swift:

• A statement signed by several leading conservative and Republican legal figures, -- including Ken Starr, David Rivkin, Lee Casey, Bradford Berenson, Charles Stimson, Philip Zelikow, and John Berringer -- called the attack "shameful," as well as "both unjust to the individuals in question and destructive of any attempt to build lasting mechanisms for counterterrorism adjudications."

Rivkin and Casey have defended the Bush administration's interrogation polices, including John Yoo's "Torture Memos." Stimson resigned as the Bush administration's top detainee affairs official after suggesting on a radio show that companies not hire law firms providing pro bono services to detainees. Zelikow and Berringer were top advisers to Condoleezza Rice at the State Department. And Berenson was a lawyer in the Bush White House, and is a prominent spokesman for conservative legal causes.

• Starr continued the pushback on MSNBC's Countdown, of all places, where he told Lawrence O'Donnell that Cheney's attack was "very unwise, and really an out-of-bounds characterization and challenge to good, honorable lawyers."

Posted by: drindl | March 9, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

they can always bust the doors down ... and drown themselves in the urinals. Once they're shrunk down small enough.

Posted by: Noacoler


Ped wracks his pea brain for something really clever to retort. after several attempts, his most intelligent and thoughtful remark is???????

this is why liberal policy is such a total failure. they can't keep their minds out of bathrooms and associated locations. Ped can't post without some reference to an area between the knees and naval - the center of her universe.

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

While people like Noacoler were cheering in the 90s about the great economy and how we would never have a recession again I was incessantly complaining that the bubble would pop and China would own us in 10-20 years.

Do you know what you clueless liberals were saying at the time? "They're a bunch of poor rice farmers."

Posted by: Cryos | March 9, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

America liberates Iraq from eevil dictator, at a cost of thousands of American lives and trillions of dollars
 
But it was worth it.
 
http://tinyurl.com/ycop5bl
 
smells like .. victory
 

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 3:40 PM | Report abuse

America victorious in Việt Nam


what kind of loser goes to the trouble of placing foreign grammar marks on international words.

Ped

when I talk about the capitol of France I always pronounce it Paree.

When I refer to the Huns, I call them Chingas,

When I talk about the Infantry associated with the US Navy, I refer to them as Marine Corpses.

I often refer to the country near India as Pukeestun.

I like having people think I'm smart.

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Yay for the most favored nation status to China and dotcom/tech bubble that prompted outsourcing.

==

ANOTHER lying freak.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 3:09 PM
===================
Wow what an intellectual retort.

here let me put it in knuckledragging economic terms for you liberals.

- The service industry exploded. People were making $25-$50 an hour mowing lawns and doing other unskilled labor.

- IT industry and other high tech jobs exploded. The high tech industry outpaced US workers ability to adapt. Hence expansion of H1B visas.

- Why would you take a job in manufacturing when you could start your own service company and make 3X the amount or you could start a web site with no revenue yet walk away with millions?

- India recognized the IT industry would continue to soar and began startups.

- The dot com bubble popped in 2000 after the whole false Y2K scare and when people got tired of promises being a business model.

Are you really stupid enough to think that manufacturing and IT outsourcing just sprung out of the ground in 2001? Don't answer for your sake.

Posted by: Cryos | March 9, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

America victorious in Việt Nam
 
http://www.planetwaves.net/contents/images/saigon.jpg

semper fi

whoop

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

It is supposed to rain tomorrow. It never used to rain on Wednesdays.

Liberal science, economics, foreign policy, mathematics and warfare are absurd.

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 3:00 PM
=========================================
They're not absurd. You just have to still have the idealistic mind of a child with no realistic outcome of policy.

I mean when you were a little kid didn't you think everyone should share and you hated mommy who told you no when you asked for something stupid?

Posted by: Cryos | March 9, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I'm really against any GOP's going head to head like Rubio and Crist.. they need to save their muster for the general election.. no room for this intraparty battles.. Crist should throw in the towel and wait for Astronaut boy to hang himself on healthcare.

Posted by: newbeeboy | March 9, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

They're shutting down public toilets along the highways in Arizona, and people are screaming. And I say it suck it up, buddies, this is the 'small government' you wanted so badly. Eat it.

==

they can always bust the doors down ... and drown themselves in the urinals. Once they're shrunk down small enough.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Why do moonbats always appear in herds? Is it the lemming thing?

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Mar. 8, 1965: The lead elements of 3rd Battalion, 9th Marines begin coming ashore at Da Nang, South Vietnam. Within hours, 1st Battalion, 3rd Marines will arrive aboard transport aircraft at the nearby airbase. The Marines of 3/9 and 1/3 – both part of the 9th Marine Expeditionary Brigade – are the first of America’s ground-combat forces destined for offensive operations against the enemy in Southeast Asia, once again putting teeth in the Marine Corps’ claim that it is “first to fight.”

flash forward to today. all the perverts and communists who can't hold down a real job or life in America are flocking to the communist utopia. The boys here have no facial hair. the gyms are air-conditioned. the showers have no curtains.

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 3:17 PM | Report abuse

I stand corrected. It's possible to be an independent Republican UNTIL you get elected to Congress.

Posted by: JakeD3 | March 9, 2010 3:16 PM | Report abuse

They're shutting down public toilets along the highways in Arizona, and people are screaming. And I say it suck it up, buddies, this is the 'small government' you wanted so badly. Eat it.

Posted by: drindl | March 9, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Jane Fonda is mad.

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Yay for the most favored nation status to China and dotcom/tech bubble that prompted outsourcing.

==

ANOTHER lying freak.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

The Rubio joke won't be do funny if he wins and starts shutting down essential services to fund tax cuts for the Miami wealthy.

Don't forget: this isn't about a disagreement on ideology. The far righties are literally irrational and contemptuous of logic. They will get a lot of people killed.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Candidates such as Crist, who are moderate and reasonable and pragmatic, don't really fit in the Republican Party anymore. They just aren't going to find any success there, with those attributes. And by the way, The Republican Party is not the party of Lincoln, and it hasn't been for a very long time. People who say that simply have no believers.

Posted by: chouteau | March 9, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Cryos writes
"That is the only chance most democrats have is to try to splinter the votes to get their rubber stamp garbage candidates into office"


Of course, that math can work both ways. For instance, presidential hopeful governor Tim Pawlenty (R) of Minnesota has never won a statewide majority. Likewise, Sen Franken (D) didn't win a majority; nor did his predecessor Sen Coleman (R). (Sen Klobuchar (D) did win a majority)

Gov Perry (R) of TX is another plurality candidate.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 2:02 PM
=======================
You forgot the biggest one. Without Ross Perot Bill Clinton would have lost.

Yay for the most favored nation status to China and dotcom/tech bubble that prompted outsourcing.

Posted by: Cryos | March 9, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

It is supposed to rain tomorrow. It never used to rain on Wednesdays.

Liberal science, economics, foreign policy, mathematics and warfare are absurd.

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

by science deniers I assume you mean al gore and his church of the loony greens, of which you are clearly a member?

what part of faked data fits with your "view" of "science". How does a model that does not predict actual facts coincide with the green religion?

I think I understand. you just simply believe. and raise taxes. a perfect liberal religion.

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

I know it will be a stretch, but pretend you are a reporter:

What would the press ask as their first question of an Independent candidate for the US Senate.

Oh, come on, I know it's right on the tip of your tongue>

They'd ask: With which of the two major parties will you caucus if elected?

He might as well run as a Republican and let the chips fall.

As a Republican who supported McCain from the beginning, I hope he succeeds.

Rubio is bad joke.

Posted by: jimhale2 | March 9, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

"There's continuing melting here in Minnesota.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Happens every year about this time."


Actually that's not quite true. Usually we get more snow in March. There's a little tradition called the State Tournament Snowstorm where, more often than not, we get a bunch of snow in conjunction with the state high school hockey tournament. This year? Rain.


.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

March in Seattle.

1985: snow

2010: trees are a month into their new foliage

the science deniers should be gassed

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

There's continuing melting here in Minnesota.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Happens every year about this time. I predict it will rapidly get hotter for the next 6 months or so, followed by a wave of cold.

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Let's see... less than 30 percent of Americans identify themselves as Republican. About half of those would actually fully endorse the rigid platform that tea baggers endorse...

Simple math: No RINOs, no Republican electoral success. It is easy being a party of ideological purity when you hold 41 percent of the seats in the Senate. Do you really think that you are going to get to 51 with a bunch of hardcore Republicans.

Wake up! This country does not have a facist majority... not yet at least. Though, who knows... if you keep propagating lies such as all of America's problems will go away if you just elect real Republicans and they (giggle, giggle) will get rid of big government. Anyway, so long as the U.S. remains a great country, you will need RINOs...

When this country falls so low that xenophobic, utopian, fascist tea baggers can run it without having to compromise with centrists and moderates... well, then it won't really matter who would have won if there were elections.

Posted by: orgbluspider | March 9, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

"Blizzards have hit the French Mediterranean coast amid warnings of up to 20 inches of snow in Northern Spain on Tuesday."

There's continuing melting here in Minnesota. Lets see, Minnesota is balmier than the Mediterranean coast? Yup! No climate change going on here!

Call me now about fabulous vacation opportunities on Lake Superior's glamorous North Shore. Beat the rush of eurotrash that will be flocking to Duluth and Grand Marais in leiu of Cannes and Monaco this year!

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

I am very proud of Charlie Crist for considering this bold and courageous move. Gov. Crist will be doing his part to help make sure that the fringe tea party wing of the GOP does not take over the entire Republican Party. It would be a disaster for the country if that ever happened and if the GOP wins back the White House. I would be glad to back Gov. Crist's Independent campaign if he loses the primary and decides to run as an Independent!

Mitch Dworkin
Dallas, Texas
http://mitchdworkin.com/
Objective Political Research & Analysis

Posted by: MitchDworkin | March 9, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

ScienceDaily (Mar. 9, 2010) — A team of scientists has discovered that the drastic decline in Arctic musk ox populations that began roughly 12,000 years ago was due to a warming climate rather than to human hunting

Wait, I thought warming was because of my new SUV? What gives? I haven't owned it that long.

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Blizzards have hit the French Mediterranean coast amid warnings of up to 20 inches of snow in Northern Spain on Tuesday. Nimes and Perpignan were among the cities hit by the bad weather near the coast in France.

Warming or cooling? Hard to say in moonbat land. all we can really conclude is that we must raise taxes.

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

What would dribbl be without her crazed leftist cut and pastes?


Still unemployed, but bored too.

Posted by: drivl | March 9, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

You really need to wonder why anyone would hate America enough to wish Republicans back in power. Like they haven't done enough damage yet.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Come on, drindl, post links to sources.

Alt-D, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V.

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Cryos writes
"That is the only chance most democrats have is to try to splinter the votes to get their rubber stamp garbage candidates into office"


Of course, that math can work both ways. For instance, presidential hopeful governor Tim Pawlenty (R) of Minnesota has never won a statewide majority. Likewise, Sen Franken (D) didn't win a majority; nor did his predecessor Sen Coleman (R). (Sen Klobuchar (D) did win a majority)

Gov Perry (R) of TX is another plurality candidate.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

First photo I've ever seen taken by the actinic glare of a thermonuclear explosion.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 9, 2010 2:02 PM | Report abuse

This is an interesting dynamic that's going to continue to fracture the Republican vote, as radical winger tea partiers who can't win in the general start winning primaries against the Republican establishment candidates who can. What to do? If Crist goes independent, that will be the beginning of a really dangerous trend for them. And endorsements from party figures shift with the polls.

Mitt is right in the middle of this too -- trying to stand up for McCain while much of his party is leaning toward the nutcase DJ Hayworth. Mitty had to disagree with Limbaugh though, so first he kissed his butt:

Last month, Rush Limbaugh criticized Mitt Romney for endorsing Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) in his campaign against J.D. Hayworth in Arizona’s GOP Senate primary. “I think he’s risking his career over a guy, endorsing McCain, who is so out of step with what’s going on right now,” Limbaugh complained. Newsmax asked Romney about Limbaugh’s criticism in a new interview. But while Romney (surprisingly) stuck to his position, he couldn’t help but seize the moment to pander to the Limbaugh crowd:

ROMNEY: Well, you know, I find it hard to disagree with Rush Limbaugh on topics but on this one I do. "

And he's standing up to tea partiers, too -- don't mess with the republican establishment, dears -- run along and play now:

"Washington (CNN) - Mitt Romney has a message to Tea Party candidates nationwide:If you lose your Republican primary bids, stay on the sidelines.

The former Massachusetts governor on Monday warned the grassroots movement not to mount third party efforts in general elections, which he said would siphon votes from Republican nominees.'

"If there is a conservative candidate that runs in the general election, then obviously, divide and fail is the result," Romney said in an interview with the conservative Web site Newsmax. "Hopefully Tea Party candidates will run in respective primaries and they will either win or lose. And if they win they will go into the general. If they lose, they won't, and they will get behind the more conservative of the two finalists."

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin made similar remarks last month in a speech sponsored by the Arkansas Republican Party. "Now the smart thing will be for independents who are such a part of this Tea Party movement to, I guess, kind of start picking a party."

Posted by: drindl | March 9, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

I doubt that either Crist or Rubio switch to Independent.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 9, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Charlie Crist is a RINO so Marco Rubio should win in Fl.
Impeach Obama

Posted by: armpeg | March 9, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Would he take a hit if he switched to an independent bid? Absolutely. Would it be better than abruptly ending his political career with a loss in a race that he once led by 50+ points? Absolutely
====================
Gee I'm shocked at this analysis. You mean split the vote so the subpar democrat wins?

That is the only chance most democrats have is to try to splinter the votes to get their rubber stamp garbage candidates into office

Posted by: Cryos | March 9, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

"we know two Indies who have registered R in FL to vote for Crist. Does that make them "Independent Rs?""


There is a distinction between voters & politicians. I think all the politicians probably call themselves independent, or claim to be voting to represent their constituents, but I think you'd agree we're seeing some rigid party loyalty on the big votes among Repubs.

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

"either way this helps Meeks who should start to define himself soon before Crist switches or Rubio realizes that he has the primary locked up and starts to attack Meeks."

If he has the money, Meeks could do himself some favors by claiming the middle ground. Run some ads pointing out how Rubio/Crist are trying to out-conservative one another now, then predict that the winner will turn about-face for the general election in an effort to attract the moderates & swing voters in the middle.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

bsimon and JkD3, we know two Indies who have registered R in FL to vote for Crist. Does that make them "Independent Rs?"

Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 9, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

"Isn't Independent Republican an oxymoron?"

also known as: RINO

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Isn't Independent Republican an oxymoron?

Posted by: JakeD3 | March 9, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

There's a lot of talk about 3rd-party candidates lately: Crist, the situation in NY-23 last year, the various Tea Party candidates in primaries, etc. It would be nice if this sudden fervor for third parties and independents translated into a change in our electoral system. A better way of voting and counting votes would be a major boost to independent candidates, and it would be especially useful in primaries. But it hurts the two parties in power, so it's not likely to ever happen.

Posted by: Blarg | March 9, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Further evidence that the Republican party has devolved into a mass of snarling, hate-filled rightwing extremists. It's now a battles between the true believer fundamentalists who actually believe in No Taxes, No Government versus the "moderates" who cynically pander and manipulate in order to gain power and then use it to maintain the corporate interests that fund their political advertising campaigns.

Either way, Republicans will spend 40 years in the political wilderness for having worshiped false idols (Bush/Reagan) and having sold their souls for a failed ideology.

Posted by: thebobbob | March 9, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

The thing is Teddy Rooselvelt and Abe Lincoln would be run out of today's GOP. I think the telling statement in this article is that this move would be for "blatant political self preservation". And what I have to say to that is who cares? Crist is a politician who wants to represent the State of Florida not the republican party, in the US Senate. I think that he does make the switch to an independent run probably in the next month or so, especially if more polls show him down 40 in the primary but up in the general.

Frankly, either way this helps Meeks who should start to define himself soon before Crist switches or Rubio realizes that he has the primary locked up and starts to attack Meeks.

Posted by: AndyR3 | March 9, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

"Rubio allies, in a memo set to be released later this week, argue that the financial gap is actually far smaller as Crist has raised a considerable amount of money that can only be spent in a general election. According to their calculations, Crist has $4.7 million to spend on the primary to Rubio's $1.95 milllon"


so, the financial gap is more like 2.5:1 rather than 3.75:1. And Crist already has $2.8 million earmarked for the general compared to Rubio's apparent $150K. So... The Rubio team pointing this out is viewed as a positive for their candidate? Does The Fix (or outher journos) really buy into this kind of illogic?

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 9, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

The grudge match of the Primary year, sure will be fun to watch as this thing heats up.
Hope someone here lives in Florida and can dish the dirt that does not make it up to Washington. The Texas folks have held up their end, thank you all.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 9, 2010 12:18 PM | Report abuse

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