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FL-Senate: LeMieux Is the Pick



Gov. Charlie Crist has made his pick for Senate AP Photo by Phil Coale

George LeMieux, a longtime confidante of Gov. Charlie Crist, is the pick to serve out Sen. Mel Martinez's term.

In choosing LeMieux, Crist is placing a loyal lieutenant in the seat he himself hopes to occupy in January 2011. In addition to serving as Crist's chief of staff in the attorney general's office, LeMieux managed Crist's 2006 bid for governor and was intimately involved in his decision to run for Senate in 2010.

He bypassed several Hispanic potential appointees, including former U.S. attorney Bobby Martinez and former governor Bob Martinez, an interesting move given that Crist faces a Senate primary fight from former House Speaker Marco Rubio who is Cuban.

By Chris Cillizza  |  August 28, 2009; 12:00 PM ET
Categories:  Senate  
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Next: MA-Senate Special: Who's In, Who's Out?

Comments

Well done, JD. I give credit where credit's due. Apologies from O-Nation...and me. :-)

Posted by: broadwayjoe | September 1, 2009 8:54 PM | Report abuse

I FOUND IT!!!

"I also think that McCain would not have been eligible to become President, because he was born in Panama.

Posted by: JakeD | July 28, 2009 9:31 PM"

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/09/01/ramadan_dinner_at_the_white_ho.html

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

I have definitely trashed McCain on lots of issues -- for instance, see my post at September 12, 2008 2:38 PM on this other thread: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/09/12/mccain_paints_obama_as_disresp.html

Unless you have further questions, then, I will assume that my "cut and paste" job has satisfactorily addressed your concerns. Thank you for your professionalism and courtesy.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe:

You are not doing a good job of "FULL ignore" mode -- I have said "if only his mother had been [a U.S. citizen], with a similar father situation (maybe from Germany or Austria) I would indeed be making the same objection" (is that enough "cut & paste" for you?) and I also have pointed out repeatedly that maybe McCain didn't push this issue precisely because he was also born outside the U.S.

Nonetheless, it is not a "similar" situation because McCain's parents were both citizens -- that's why I have never argued they are similar -- it's not my job to challenge Panama-born McCain's eligibility to be President. FYI: BOTH of Obama's parents were not U.S. citizens.

If anyone else wants to debate any of that, in a civil manner, please let me know.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

JD, good news. I checked with snipehunt.com and they say BHO's "long form birth certificate" has been found. I wondered whether you would go pick it up. It is somewhere in the alley behind the Apollo Theatre in Harlem. The whole community will be expecting you. Bring Hannity, Audra Shay, Pastor Steven Anderson, and Lynn Jenkins with you if you would. Good luck. :)

Posted by: broadwayjoe | September 1, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

JD, know you have been busy serial trolling lately but...how come you have yet to paste in any post to any blog in which you challenged Panama-born McCain's eligibility to be President. You know, prior troll dropping where you said McCain is ineligible because he is not "native born." Could it be that you have never written such a blog?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | September 1, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

"...but what would I know, being the "racist swine" that I am?."

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 6:05 PM
___________
Acknowledgment of the disease is the first step towards the cure. You are to be congratulated for your admission.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | September 1, 2009 7:05 PM | Report abuse

Unlike, say, a Democrat like Bill Clinton who only lived in government housing between 1978 and 2001? Seriously, Piyush BOBBY Jindal was born to recent immigrants from Punjab, India and his ancestral family village of Khanpura, Malerkotla in 1971 -- his is the story of the American dream as beckoned by Lady Liberty herself -- he attended public school in Baton Rouge and worked his way up. After high school, Jindal attended Brown University, graduating with honors in biology and public policy. Although he had thought of a career in medicine or law, he went on to study at New College, Oxford, as a Rhodes Scholar and received an M.Litt. degree in political science from the University of Oxford in 1994 for a thesis on "A needs-based approach to health care". Later that year, he was reported to have been accepted at BOTH Harvard Medical School and Yale Law School, but returned to Oxford for a D.Phil. in Politics.

Again, someone I could definitely vote for (but what would I know, being the "racist swine" that I am?).

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

Jindal is a Republican and feels entitled to live the life of a very rich man at taxpayer expense. It comes with the R.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Why does Gov. Jindal use state helicopters to fly himself to church?
I thought he was a fiscal conservative?

Posted by: JRM2 | September 1, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

So I guess it is safe to say that Zouk reincarnated himself as snowbama

Posted by: JRM2 | September 1, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

I think if you operate on the assumption that anyone still a Republican is mentally ill past the point of functioning in society you won't be far wrong. Certainly that presumption will predict their positions with near-perfect accuracy.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Why do Republicans want to fund universal health care for the citizens of Iraq but not for the citizens of the United States?

Posted by: JRM2 | September 1, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

On second thought, keep up the name calling, please. Especially when CC returns full-time.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

P.S. to DDAWD: care to try explaining again how "DNFTT" (actually referring to, and talking about, said troll) is part of "FULL ignore" mode?

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

@GoldAndTanzanite: please refrain from repeated name calling that got you banned already when you did it as "chrisfox8".

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

@drindl: please refrain from feeding the racist troll

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

drindl:

I'm not the one "whining" (especially about talk radio or the 2nd Amendment). and corporations -- mega or not -- are already prohibited from making contributions in connection with any election, including state and local elections. Contributions may, however, be made from separate segregated funds (also called political action committees or PACs) established by corporations, labor organizations, national banks, and incorporated membership organizations. 11 CFR 114.2 and 114.5.

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/contrib.shtml#Prohibited_Contributions

Next canard?

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I watched "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" last night -- Jimmy Stewart did a great acting job in that movie -- wouldn't it be nice if we got back to citizen politicians who were principled and immune from special interests?

'all we need to do is prevent 'special interests' like mega corportations from contributing to campaigns, something i am quite sure you are against, so stop whining.

Posted by: drindl | September 1, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Special to you from The Onion:

WASHINGTON–In the continuing controversy surrounding the president's U.S. citizenship, a new fringe group informally known as "Afterbirthers" demanded Monday the authentication of Barack Obama's placenta from his time inside his mother's womb. "All we are asking is that the president produce a sample of his fetal membranes and vessels—preferably along with a photo of the crowning and delivery—and this will all be over," said former presidential candidate and Afterbirthers spokesman Alan Keyes, later adding that his organization would be willing to settle for a half-liter of maternal cord plasma. "To this day, the American people have not seen a cervical mucus plug, let alone one that has been signed and notarized by a state-certified Hawaiian health official. If the president was indeed born in the manner in which he claims, then where is his gestation sac?" Keyes said that if Obama did not soon produce at least a bloody bedsheet from his conception, Afterbirthers would push forward with efforts to exhume the president's deceased mother and inspect the corpse's pelvic bone and birth canal.

I'm so glad they mentioned the mucus plug =:-D

Posted by: margaretmeyers | September 1, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

For the record, neither Keyes nor myself are demanding to see pResident Obama's Placenta -- I'm not even "demanding" to see his LONG FORM birth certificate -- I am simply asking why he has not released it.

From mark_in_austin's Wiki link (below):

On July 28, 2009, Hawaii Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino issued a statement saying, "I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen".

Why can't the rest of us see it?

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Attention Roz Mazer, John Brennan, Jim Jones, Eric Holder, Robert Gates, Janet Napolitano, John Panetta, Robert Mueller:

HOW U.S. SPY OPS CENSOR WEB POLITICAL SPEECH

http://groups.poynter.org/members/blog_view.asp?id=190108&post=77511

Posted by: scrivener50 | September 1, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

"CONSERVATIVES DOMINATE THE BROADCAST AND CABLE MEDIA IN THIS COUNTRY."

Thank you, Shales, for pointing out what' s obvious to most of us.

==

The one (1) radio station that carries liberal commentary in my area is unlistenable. Anytime I punch in I get at most 30 seconds of Thom Hartman or whoever before he's talking about "when we come back after the break." Back to the iPod.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Back on topic, George LeMieux is no lightweight. He graduated magna cum laude and phi beta kappa from Emory University with a degree in political science. He received his law school education at Georgetown University where he also graduated with honors.

In 2003, he was asked by then Attorney General Charlie Crist to serve as Florida's Deputy Attorney General and Chief of Staff to the Attorney General's Office where he supervised more than 400 lawyers and 1300 total staff. As Deputy Attorney General he appeared on behalf of the State of Florida in the United States Supreme Court where he argued for and won a unanimous decision in a death penalty case. He seems very experienced and should make an interesting asset to the Republicans.

I watched "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" last night -- Jimmy Stewart did a great acting job in that movie -- wouldn't it be nice if we got back to citizen politicians who were principled and immune from special interests?

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

"CONSERVATIVES DOMINATE THE BROADCAST AND CABLE MEDIA IN THIS COUNTRY."

Thank you, Shales, for pointing out what' s obvious to most of us.

Posted by: drindl | September 1, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

For those of you wondering why I included Harding:

In June 1923, President Warren G. Harding set out on a cross-country "Voyage of Understanding," planning to meet ordinary people and explain his policies. During this trip, he became the first president to visit Alaska. Rumors of corruption in his administration were beginning to circulate in Washington by this time, and Harding was profoundly shocked by a long message he received while in Alaska, apparently detailing illegal activities previously unknown to him. At the end of July, while traveling south from Alaska through British Columbia, he developed what was thought to be a severe case of food poisoning. He gave the final speech of his life to a large crowd at the University of Washington Stadium (now Husky Stadium) at the University of Washington campus in Seattle, Washington. A scheduled speech in Portland, Oregon was canceled. The President's train proceeded south to San Francisco. Upon arriving at the Palace Hotel, he developed pneumonia.

President Harding died, allegedly, of either a heart attack or a stroke at 7:35 p.m. on August 2, 1923. The formal announcement, printed in the New York Times of that day, stated that "A stroke of apoplexy was the cause of death." He had been ill exactly one week.

Naval physicians surmised that he had suffered a heart attack; however, this diagnosis was not made by U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Charles E. Sawyer, who was traveling with the Presidential party. Mrs. Harding refused permission for an autopsy, which soon led to speculation that the President had been the victim of a plot, possibly carried out by his wife. Harding apparently had been unfaithful to the First Lady. Gaston B. Means, an amateur historian and gadfly, noted in his book "The Strange Death of President Harding" (1930) that the circumstances surrounding his death lent themselves to some suspecting he had been poisoned. Several individuals attached to him, personally and politically, would have welcomed Harding's death, as they would have been disgraced in association by Means' assertion of Harding's "imminent impeachment." Although Means was later discredited for publicly accusing Mrs. Harding of the purported murder, enough doubts surround the President's death to keep reputable scholars open to the possibility of foul play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_assassination_attempts_and_plots#Warren_G._Harding

Even without Harding -- not sure how the Secret Service can protect against mariticide -- it is clear that the vast majority of assassination attempts (and successes) have been against Republicans, not Democrats. Again, Chicken Little libs strike again.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Lincoln
Garfield
McKinley
Harding
Nixon
Ford
Reagan

vs.

Kennedy

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Back to Presidential assassination attempts, it should be noted that REPUBLICANS have been targeted (obviously not by right-wingers) more than Democrats.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Final post count out of 482. Since there's a new thread, the action is moving there. The Blade actually got in the first post!

103 JakeD
67 GoldAndTanzanite
57 broadwayjoe
44 drindl
39 snowbama
37 mikeinmidland
27 DDAWD
15 bsimon1
14 angriestdogintheworld
13 FairlingtonBlade
13 margaretmeyers
9 mnteng
9 scrivener50
7 nodebris
6 trep1
4 mark_in_austin
4 yeswiican
3 matthewjblack
3 priley8104
2 mtcooley
1 jckdoors
1 leichtman
1 MoreAndBetterPolls
1 Name
1 reason5
1 sjxylib

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | September 1, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

On a lighter topic: RE: Tom Shales

This is from his chat. I loved it.

"Dunn Loring, Va.: Re your coloun disparaging Liz Cheney's style, what was the last column you wrote so harshly criticizing a liberal pundit?

Tom Shales: Ah yes, it's our dear old Dunn Loringite. Dunn Loringer. Whatever. You have an ideological axe to grind and it's awfully predictable. Where do you get the idea that if someone criticizes a conservative they must also criticize a liberal? Is there some kind of "equal time" law or "fairness doctrine" that applies to everybody who says anything that is broadcast or cablecast? That's absurd. CONSERVATIVES DOMINATE THE BROADCAST AND CABLE MEDIA IN THIS COUNTRY. They have very little to complain about in terms of access to an audience. When was the last time you criticized a conservative? It's a meaningless question whichever way it is asked."

Not many people just come out and say it like that.

Don't mean to hijack.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 1, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

mikeinmidland:

Good points -- they are simply using "fear" for partisan purposes -- we also have not had any SUCCESSFUL Presidential assassinations since 1963.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I blame the National Guard, not the students, for Kent State. I blame the police, and not the residents of Detroit and Chicago, for the violence of that time. But it was violent. 43 dead in 4 days of rioting in Detroit. Over a thousand wounded. Thousands arrested.

Please understand that I am not excusing the current behavior. I am simply saying that you have a selective memory if you believe that the 1960's was an era of civil discourse and public safety.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Oh, please, how can you "feel a lot less secure" if you aren't even in the line of fire. You didn't even watch it on TV, for gawd's sake! ROTFLOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

My point about Kent State? Those were anti-Vietnam protesters. The National Guard should not have opened fire, but they wouldn't have if it was a civil discussion. My point is that perhaps we are less civil with each other in daily life, but socio-political protest is certainly less deadly than it used to be.

==

At Kent State it wasn't the protesters who were carrying guns. Today it is. And I feel a lot less secure about a bunch of demonstrably paranoid right-wing types amped up over whacko conspiracies, people who *actually believe* that the President is some sort of imposter, than I feel about a single incident with the National Guard.

Armed military people are subject to discipline, they've had training. Firing on protesters was a one-off. Right-wingers with guns have opposed any and all training requirements for decades and would rather carry more powerful guns than spend the time learning to fire less powerful ones more accurately.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

I don't think there's any big increase in threats -- unfortunately, that does come with the job, for a long time now -- here were some more against GWB:

Robert Pickett, Richard Humphreys, Diane Wilson, Robert Romo, Florence Lockhart, Patrick McMorrow, Volker Czechanowswky, Joseph Mazaqwu, Dan Cvijanovich, Vladimer Arutunian, Barry Eckstrom, Steven Baldwin (no, the OTHER Baldwin brother), John Thomason, Phillip Bailey, Shawn Cox, Scott Rendelman, Mohammad Zaki Amawi, Roger Witmer, Julia Wilson, Jessica Moyer, Alexis Janicki, Catalino Diaz, Vikram Buddhi, Nathan Danforth, Timothy Pinkston, Stephen Pyle, Steven Vonieda, Michael Braun, Patrick Bloodsworth, Gregory Broussard, Jeffrey Cloutier, Monty Branch, Larry Ward, Mary Landrieu, Wilbur Brown, Arafat Nijmeh, Dan Tilli, Aleksandar Aleksov, Charles Madrid, Declan O'Shea, Raymond Geisel, and Tony Alamo.

Let me know when there are 44 against pResident Obama.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

GoldAndTanzanite:

As I've told you before, I "hope" there is never an assassination attempt.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I have seen a few instances of outright physical intimidation. These people should be arrested or at least thrown out. At Bush rallies, people were arrested for wearing so much as a critical t-shirt. Not saying Obama should be as extremist as Bush, but these people shouldn't be allowed to stifle debate.

==

I'm really tired of this gingerly kid-gloves approach to these lunatics. Do we have to wait until someone gets killed before doing anything about it? How many have to be killed?

My hope is that one of these yahoos pulls out the gun and is mobbed by Secret Service and rendered into hamburger camouflage, and the next day becomes one that the far right remembers for decades to come, the day when American law enforcement cut the crap and started to restore public order. I don't give a crap what the gun laws are, there is no god damned reason to carry a weapon to a political rally.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Detroit Race Riots of 1967. Newark 1967. Chicago 1968. Take your pick.

My point about Kent State? Those were anti-Vietnam protesters. The National Guard should not have opened fire, but they wouldn't have if it was a civil discussion. My point is that perhaps we are less civil with each other in daily life, but socio-political protest is certainly less deadly than it used to be.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

"Anyway I don't think "rowdy" is quite the word for the town halls. Those "rowdies" aren't participating in the discussions, they're actively shutting them down.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite "

Yeah, I have seen a few instances of outright physical intimidation. These people should be arrested or at least thrown out. At Bush rallies, people were arrested for wearing so much as a critical t-shirt. Not saying Obama should be as extremist as Bush, but these people shouldn't be allowed to stifle debate.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 1, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

mtcooley:

Were you as concerned when an actual Tampa police officer (presumably capable of getting himself and a gun close enough) threatened to shoot GWB?

http://jacksonville.com/apnews/stories/082804/D84OB5781.shtml

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Kenneth Gladney was knocked down, got up and walked around looking for a cop. The next day he shows up on Fox News in a wheelchair. FAKE.

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/faking-victimhood-just-how-hurt-was

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

I'd take a rowdy town hall meeting over the Detroit riots, Kent State shooting, etc. any day.

==

Detroit? Don't you mean Chicago?

The Kent State shootings were the National Guard firing at college students. Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Anyway I don't think "rowdy" is quite the word for the town halls. Those "rowdies" aren't participating in the discussions, they're actively shutting them down.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

“Plainclothes police officers continually monitored the situation and no threats, either physical or verbal, were made,” according to Phoenix police spokesman.

New Hampshire law also allows people to carry unconcealed guns and that protester wasn’t arrested either, said a U.S. Secret Service spokesman.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=alVrSXUswebs

The "picture", unfortunately, is of pResident Obama shaking an elderly lady's hand (but I doubt she was packing heat ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

It may be real but it is not rational. Irrational fear IS paranoia.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

miikeinmidland:

I'd take a rowdy town hall meeting -- even with armed protesters outside, away from any line of fire to pResident Obama -- over the Detroit riots, Kent State shooting, etc. any day too.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

mtcooley:

You are asking for the news reports that police / Secret Service kept a close eye on the armed protesters? Just want to make sure that's what you want -- I do not have any inside info on pResident Obama's personal reaction -- you did hear about Kenneth Gladney, right?

He was beaten by union thugs: A black man at a political rally was assaulted by white thugs who used racial epithets. The man was beaten so badly that he was forced to use a wheelchair and the response from liberals was...well, we're actually still waiting for a response. The conservative response was to start bringing guns to the town hall meetings. Since then, for the most part, the unions have decided to behave themselves. It's just more proof than an armed society is a polite society.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

The overall level of crime goes down year after year, yet the level of fear seems to go up. I would blame that more on 24/7 cable "news" than any segment of society.

==

Violent crime has been dropping in the USA more or less steadily since the Civil War. But the sense that it's increasing predates cable news by decades.

I remember thirty years ago being told by an Orange County Republican seatmate on a plane that crime was getting worse all the time .. I told her that it's actually dropping and she flat out didn't believe me.

Thirty years ago if the family car broke down out in the country people thought nothing of having a picnic to keep the kids happy. Now they'd sit in the car with the doors locked almost tweeking in fear of some nut showing up.

The sense of breakdown isn't paranoia. It's real.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

G&T:
My personal memory of 1969 was of moon landings, safe suburbia and my mom's cooking. But that was not the world. I'd take a rowdy town hall meeting over the Detroit riots, Kent State shooting, etc. any day.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Of course, GoldAndTanzanite / chrisfox8 also "hopes" that Dick Cheney dies too. So much for this false sense of a "better civic sense". LOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Jake as the internet says Pics or it didn't happen.

There's been no visible reaction from the president on it. Though to be fair I'm a bit busy at the moment to keep my eyes glued to the TV or the news so perhaps something slipped by. I've heard nothing but silence. That's not okay because there's no reason to bring a gun to a rally except intimidation. I don't believe they're bringing it out of fear of harm to their person or for safety. They're doing it because it makes them feel in charge.

And that's no reason to own a weapon. That's a simplistic childish thought that gets people hurt or killed.

Posted by: mtcooley | September 1, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Good luck trying to reason with this.

GoldAndTanzanite:

"I won't feel safe until Armey's group and others are formally classified as terrorist cells and their members taken in for questioning."

drindl:

"Many 3rd world countries are now a lot safer than the US, what with so many crazy extremists roaming the streets here.

...

I worry a lot less about criminals than angry mobs of rightwing terrorists..."

GoldAndTanzanite (fka "chrisfox8"), on a prior thread:

"I hope there is an assassination attempt on Obama ..." albeit UN-successful for partisan purposes.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

41 years ago, "nutjobs" killed Martin Luther King, Jr. and Bobby Kennedy. Thousands were dying in Vietnam. To bad we didn't pass universal health care while we had all these considerate, unselfish people in the country.

==

Ray and Sirhan aside, we had a better civic sense then than we do now. It was at least possible in the late 60s to have a public policy discussion without being shouted down by chanting, and without endless distractions coming from people screaming about "my money."

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

mikeinmidland:

They display their guns, and the government has done something; perhaps you missed the Secret Service following up and (almost certainly) creating files on them. This is not done by a long shot, no pun intended.

P.S. Forty years ago, we didn't call each other "racist swine trolls" either.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

41 years ago, "nutjobs" killed Martin Luther King, Jr. and Bobby Kennedy. Thousands were dying in Vietnam. To bad we didn't pass universal health care while we had all these considerate, unselfish people in the country.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse


The overall level of crime goes down year after year, yet the level of fear seems to go up. I would blame that more on 24/7 cable "news" than any segment of society.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Israelis deal with a real, and constant, level of terrorist threat every day. They go on with their lives.

==

Israelis have an institutionalized persecution complex that is validated by terrorist acts. It's part of their outlook that the world hates them and they make certain that it's true with a brutal occupation and with faithless behavior. Israel officially supports a terrorist settler movement actively engaged in stealing land. They've made their bed, lying in it is their problem. This has nothing to do with the United States.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

By your definition, and mine, they are terrorists. Not by Arizona law, however.

I don't know their motives. It may have been more about the 2nd amendment than anything else. They display their guns, and the government does nothing. That goes a long way toward dispelling the myth that Obama is a gun-grabber.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Just don't think its the biggest problem we face in this country.

==

It's a reflection of THE biggest problem in this country, the breakdown of social order.

Forty years ago people were respectful of each other's privacy, of other people's right to lead relatively stable and undisturbed lives. Selfishness was regarded as brutish behavior, and there was no place safer to be than out in public. What started as small rudeness like carrying on conversations in movit theaters has progressed to unhinged people carrying lethal weapons at political gatherings. We've gone from a nation where parents could take their kids to countryside picnics to a nation where paranoid right-wingers kill doctors in church and shoot up campuses and somehow we think this is acceptable.

Week by week, our society is breaking down.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Israelis deal with a real, and constant, level of terrorist threat every day. They go on with their lives. Terrorists are only terrorists if you are afraid of them. Or said another way, "The only thing you have to fear, is fear itself."

For sure, I am not in favor of allowing open-carry of assault rifles in Arizona or anywhere else. I think the Secret Service handled it appropriately, and we'd have all been better off if it didn't get any play in the media.

The Holocaust Museum shooter was a dead-ender, who killed a man in his own attempted suicide-by-cop. Dr. Tiller's murderer was similarly deranged--unknown whether the 2008 election had any impact on his thinking.

Yes, there are whack-jobs out there, and some of them have guns. That has always been the case. I do not think alarmism is justified. Especially because that's what they want.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

My point is that the gun-toters in Arizona did not want to kill anyone. They wanted attention. They wanted us to be afraid of them.

==

They want us to be aware that they could murder us at a moment's notice, on a passing whim.

They're terrorists.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

LOL!! pResident Obama was indeed trying to "terrorize" re: the flu -- at least "politicizing" that for the healthcare debate -- scaring us elderly people about 90,000 possible deaths.

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Mike, this is dangerously reductionist thinking. The numbers of dead don't tell the tale. Dying of the flu is fundamentally different from dying at the point of a gun in the hand of some nutjob. One can reduce one's chances of dying of flu, there isn't much one can do to avoid a crazy with a gun, other than withdrawing oneself from society.

And oh, tobacco kills a third of those who use it, about 400,000 per year. But that's a choice.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Here's another way to do the math. The 9-11 terrorists killed about 200 people each. I doubt very much that the Gitmo detainees would be so successful, but assuming they were: if we released all the Gitmo detainees into the US, and they each killed 200 people, that would be about the same number of people who die in the US every year of the flu.

Why are we not "terrorized" by the flu? Or drunk driving? They kill far more people than firearms or terrorists.

My point is that the gun-toters in Arizona did not want to kill anyone. They wanted attention. They wanted us to be afraid of them. Boycott Arizona if you want. Work to pass gun control legislation. Just don't think its the biggest problem we face in this country.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

For the record, it was Tina Fey (not Sarah Palin) who said "I can see Russia from my house".

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

The things that get news coverage aren't necessarily the ones that kill you:

firearm homicides: 10,000/yr
drunk driving deaths: 12,000/yr
influenza deaths: 36,000/yr

terrorist attacks: 4,000 in 2001
Right-wing terrorist shootings: 2 in 2009

==

You're missing the point. The fact that numerous people of clearly unstable temperament and amped up into a state of paranoid fury are carrying guns everywhere they go creates a climate of threat and terror that undermines the fact of civilization.

When you no longer feel safe turning your back on a stranger, things are falling apart. The right wing in this country has gone completely nuts in reaction to a black man being president, we all knew they'd be pissed but I don't think many of us expected them to go psychotic over it.

All it's going to take is one (1) particularly hyped-up message and those guns are going to come out of their holsters. I won't feel safe until Armey's group and others are formally classified as terrorist cells and their members taken in for questioning.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

"Yep, you heard that right: former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin will travel to Hong Kong for her first commercial speaking engagement, a keynote address at the CLSA Investors' Forum September 23. Given that foreign policy was a soft spot for Palin during the 2008 campaign, this will give her a chance to boost her foreign policy cred (and she'll be able to see Taiwan from her hotel room)."

wonder what will happen when she doesn't show up? LOL

==

Or on the off chance she does show up .. oh! to be a Cantonese-speaking fly on the wall in the translation booth as the poor guys try to translate here babble and drivel into their own language.

(muttered) "chee seen a!"

"kieu mouh nouh a!"

I wonder if she'll be telling them they should allow concealed carry?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 1, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

The things that get news coverage aren't necessarily the ones that kill you:

firearm homicides: 10,000/yr
drunk driving deaths: 12,000/yr
influenza deaths: 36,000/yr

terrorist attacks: 4,000 in 2001
Right-wing terrorist shootings: 2 in 2009

Imagine if we spent a trillion dollars fighting the flu, or on healthcare in general, instead of wasting it in Iraq.

Let's focus on reality instead of headlines and sensationalism.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

I agree peeps. We need to worry about the once every couple year incidents with some rifle bearing crazy. to accomplish this we must remove every single gun in america from the public's hands.

there is no need to worry about the hood where the innocent bystanders deserve it for not getting affirmative action like I did and going off to Harvard.

to enact this we need to be sure to ignore the crime statistics from gun prohibited places like DC and not compare them to open carry places like TX. As my Liberal brothers are well aware, facts are anathema to our cause.

Posted by: snowbama | September 1, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

@mtcooley: agree with you here 100%. I've been involved with Scouts for years. They do a better job of gun safety than the "concealed carry" training class in my state.

Theoretically you need to pass a background check to purchase a gun. But that doesn't apply to gun shows in most states. All you need is cash. Don't know if the gun has to be registered in "open carry" states.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

i agree with mt on that. In places like Detroit it's more drug-related and they tend to shoot each other.

But it's the perpetually angry and volatile rightwing crazies who use their assault weapons to open fire on playgrounds and churches and other public places.

Posted by: drindl | September 1, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

>>Detroit was the murder capital of the world for a while, and there's no open-carry there.

There's actually other things to look at there. A lot of Detroit's violence, from people I know in the area, is to do with gangs, drugs, etc. Not really legal gun owners or situations that aren't rife with other types of crime/violence already. Another factor would be the secondary market for guns and how easy it is to obtain one illegally.

Most people with open carry do have to pass some kind of background check. I'm honestly only worried about gun owners because of volatility, most are untrained and tend to think their gun makes them the guy in charge. Most people make me very nervous with them because they treat them like toys. And the first thing I learned about them was they are not toys. They're weapons designed to kill things. People like my father who take guns seriously are a rare breed of people. Most of them have too much cognative dissodence when it comes to guns and what they can do which includes what it can do to you if you have to use it on someone as well as physical damage to the other person. I mean look at the number of children that can easily access guns in their homes. That's something my father never allowed in out home. I never knew where the keys to the gun safe were (and it wasn't a silly curio type thing either but a heavy iron safe bolted to the floor) and the bullets were never in or with the gun.

I'm not actually anti-gun. But they'd never want me to legislate for it. It'd be like boot camp. :p

Posted by: mtcooley | September 1, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

1)Kenneth Gladney is beaten by union thugs: A black man at a political rally was assaulted by white thugs who used racial epithets. The man was beaten so badly that he was forced to use a wheelchair and the response from liberals was...well, we're actually still waiting for a response. The conservative response was to start bringing guns to the town hall meetings. Since then, for the most part, the unions have decided to behave themselves. It's just more proof than an armed society is a polite society.

I am confused. should I side with the black man or the union thugs??????

Posted by: snowbama | September 1, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

"reason5 is to the right of mark_in_austin and posts some of the most thoughtful horse-race comments of anyone I've seen on"

Agreed; my apologies, reason5.

Posted by: nodebris | September 1, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

So Michelle tells them to "man up" and "slit their wrists?" Not sure about in Minnesota, but where I'm from suicide is not considered manly.

Just the latest in a long string of Bachmania that I don't comprehend, I guess.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Regarding Jindal = that's peanuts. I spend more of your money on a date night with Michelle. but on the plus side, I see this as a good excuse for not picking a church yet, that and I can't find a good enough hate preacher for my taste.

I have been very busy golfing. that and trying to find the proper food for the new dog.

Posted by: snowbama | September 1, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Can't I get the Greek columns out and deploy the telepromnpters?

President Barack Obama's job approval rating is down to 42%, with a decline in approval from Democrats the leading factor. The latest Zogby Interactive poll of 4,518 likely voters conducted from August 28-31 found 48% disapprove and 42% approve of the job Obama is doing. The poll found 75% of Democrats approve of Obama's performance, a drop of 13 points among Democrats

Posted by: snowbama | September 1, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

hey -- i agree with Bachman. She and her fellow cultist should slit their wrists:

Yesterday, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) delivered a “speech filled with urgent and violent rhetoric” at a gathering sponsored by the Independence Institute in Denver. During what was originally billed as a “personal legislative briefing,” Bachmann “got downright biblical” when describing her unwavering opposition to health care reform:

“This [health care reform] cannot pass…What we have to do today is make a covenant, to slit our wrists, be blood brothers on this thing. This will not pass. We will do whatever it takes to make sure this doesn’t pass…Right now, we are looking at reaching down the throat and ripping the guts out of freedom. And we may never be able to restore it if we don’t man up and take this one on.”

Posted by: drindl | September 1, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

A report by The Advocate in Louisiana finds that state taxpayers have been paying for Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) to go to church…in a helicopter:

In May, June and July, there was rarely a Sunday when the governor didn’t board a taxpayer-funded helicopter to attend church services in far-flung parts of the state. He traveled by helicopter to churches less frequently in March and April. Over five months, Jindal took more than three dozen helicopter trips. Fourteen were to attend church services, according to state records. [...]

At least two aides usually accompanied him along with his security detail and State Police pilots. The public pays their salaries as well as the fuel and upkeep for the helicopter.

The helicopter that the governor uses the most costs $1,200 an hour to operate — about $45,000 for five months of church visits.

Posted by: drindl | September 1, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Please avoid:

What we're seeing with President Obama's plummeting poll numbers is a quick case of buyer's remorse. More broadly, Gallup reports that conservatives now outnumber liberals in all 50 states, with more Americans self-identifying themselves as conservative than at any time in the past four years. (Snip) "You know this is important polling news because the establishment media is pretending it doesn't exist," wrote Tom Blumer in The Wall Street

Posted by: snowbama | September 1, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

""Obama, still on vacation, hits the links
The AP wants you to know he was wearing a navy polo shirt and khaki trousers""

good job AP. Keep reporting this kind of "news". Please avoid this other kind:

""Obama down to 46% in Rasmussen Poll
Healthcare reform and bad economy to blame. Hubris rating unknown so far""

Posted by: snowbama | September 1, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Don't worry my peeps. the second amendment will be voided along with all the others once my master plan is in full effect. Let me finish off the first and fourth amendment and then I will get to that.

Posted by: snowbama | September 1, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

JUSTICE DEPT. CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION REFORM MUST BEGIN BY DISMANTLING THE BUSH-CHENEY EXTRAJUDICIAL TARGETING AND TORTURE MATRIX


The Obama administration must dismantle a pervasive extrajudicial targeting and punishment apparatus that is destroying the lives and livelihoods of many thousands of unjustly "targeted" Americans...

...a multi-agency coordinated war against citizens flagged by ideologically-driven bureaucrats for their politics, their lifestyles, or their racial or ethnic background.

This extra-legal Gestapo fields a citizen volunteer army that uses covertly placed GPS devices as well as cell phone transmissions to stalk and harass the unjustly targeted -- and no federal or local officials will investigate.

Many of the victims of this oppression maintain that they are assaulted by silent, injury- and illness-inducing microwave and laser "directed energy weapons," which are being proliferated nationwide by various federal agencies including the departments of Defense, Homeland Security, and Justice.

Pronouncements of a revived Civil Rights Division ring hollow unless and until this Bush-Cheney- spawned gulag is taken down and the rule of law is restored at the grassroots. For more on this domestic threat, see "Gestapo USA" at http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america

OR http://NowPublic.com/scrivener RE: "GESTAPO USA"

Posted by: scrivener50 | September 1, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Had to share this -- it's too funny!

"Yep, you heard that right: former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin will travel to Hong Kong for her first commercial speaking engagement, a keynote address at the CLSA Investors' Forum September 23. Given that foreign policy was a soft spot for Palin during the 2008 campaign, this will give her a chance to boost her foreign policy cred (and she'll be able to see Taiwan from her hotel room)."

wonder what will happen when she doesn't show up? LOL

Posted by: drindl | September 1, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Agreed. It's not like the seats will be handed over to Crist and Biden. Both of them are going to have to actually elections.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 1, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

I'm no fan of guns, and personally I don't understand why anyone but law enforcement should have a handgun. But I'd be more interested in overall crime statistics than gun laws in a given area. Detroit was the murder capital of the world for a while, and there's no open-carry there.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Regarding the nomination of seat-warmers--what exactly is the objection?

Being the incumbent is almost always an advantage in an election. In the cases of Crist, Biden, and perhaps Kennedy, the person appointed will not be running and therefore the incumbent advantage does not exist.

The opposing party should be happy that there is no incumbent, as should the challengers in the same party (except for the one who thinks s/he should have gotten the appt.)

I think the Crist pick shows that he is, and considers himself to be, the frontrunner, and can afford to take a small hit on a charge of cronyism. Announcing it when he did was intended to minimize the coverage, but that's politics as usual.

But in the end, there will be an election in Mass, and Delaware, and Florida soon enough, with no incumbent advantage. What's not to like?

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

If Ronald Reagan were giving a speech in Phoenix, and his tomb was empty, we'd have more worries than local gun laws -- seriously, you libs are acting like someone actually shot Obama already -- calm down a bit. AND remember to not reply in any manner to this post ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

mike -- I am now makng a point of checking gun laws in places I travel, same as I do overseas. Many 3rd world countries are now a lot safer than the US, what with so many crazy extremists roaming the streets here.

"Of course the lack of an open-carry law doesn't mean you won't get shot by a criminal."

I worry a lot less about criminals than angry mobs of rightwing terrorists...

Posted by: drindl | September 1, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

@drindl: The incident around Obama's recent town hall meeting in Arizona merely illustrated a little-known truth. I see no reason to single out Arizona--other states have similar laws, but didn't happen to have a presidential visit recently.

Perhaps a travel advisory would be in order. You'd have to research all the gun laws and rank the states by their policies. In some states open-carry is allowed, but not concealed-carry without a permit. Other places outlaw open-carry as "brandishing."

Of course the lack of an open-carry law doesn't mean you won't get shot by a criminal. But it does mean that its a little safer to be standing across the road from anti-administration protestors.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | September 1, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

From Arthur Frommer, the travel guide guy:

"I am not yet certain whether I would advocate a travel boycott by others of the state of Arizona; I want to learn more about Arizona's gun laws and how they compare with those of other states. But I am shocked beyond measure by reports that earlier this week, nearly a dozen persons, including one with an assault rifle strapped about his shoulders and others with pistols in their hands or holsters, were openly congregating outside a hall at which President Obama was speaking to the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

For myself, without yet suggesting that others follow me in an open boycott, I will not personally travel in a state where civilians carry loaded weapons onto the sidewalks and as a means of political protest. I not only believe such practices are a threat to the future of our democracy, but I am firmly convinced that they would also endanger my own personal safety there. And therefore I will cancel any plans to vacation or otherwise visit in Arizona until I learn more. And I will begin thinking about whether tourists should safeguard themselves by avoiding stays in Arizona.

According to the Phoenix, Arizona, police, people with guns including assault rifles do not need permits in Arizona, but can simply carry such weapons with them, openly and brazenly, when they gather to protest a speaker at a public event. The police also acknowledge that about a dozen people carrying guns, including one with an AR-15 assault rifle, milled about outside the event at which President Obama spoke.

I would feel as I do regardless of the political identity of the speaker whom these thugs attempted to intimidate. The continued tolerance of extremists carrying guns is a frightening development which strikes at the heart of the political process and endangers the ability to carry out a reasoned debate. Is there any responsible citizen of the United States who believes that people should carry guns to a public debate or speech? If Ronald Reagan were delivering a political talk in Phoenix, Arizona, would they have felt it was proper for protestors with guns to mill about outside the hall from which he would leave?

I'd appreciate hearing your comments. The question is, should we all organize a travel boycott of Arizona until this tolerance of armed intimidation is ended, probably by an act of the Arizona legislature?"

Read more: http://www.frommers.com/blog/?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a3ec3ac40-db8a-4d10-a884-acf9ccad0879Post%3acad21037-04b6-415b-b41b-4838402e1e4e#ixzz0PrPe0IOz

Posted by: drindl | September 1, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

"Is there a connection between Cheney's technique and the shout-down approach of those who attend town meetings on health-care reform only so they can disrupt them?""

Bingo! Same as Oslimy and hannity and the rest of them -- this is all they do -- shout down and drown out reason and facts -- replace them with anger, violence and hysteria.

Mob rule.

It's a big week for republican daughters in the media. So liberal, they hired Liz Cheney and Jenna Bush in the same week!

Posted by: drindl | September 1, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

matthewjblack, unfortunately the notion that enjoying jazz precludes racism does not stand up. It probably works for the musicians themselves, but I am old enough to remember Brubeck, a truly great white jazz pianist and bandleader, in 1954, having to promote Duke Ellington, the incredibly great black composer and big band leader, continually. Goodman, starting before my time, was scorned for hiring a black vibraphonist for the quartet. Brubeck as a young serviceman in WW2 had to fight to get black jazzmen into his military jazz band.


Posted by: mark_in_austin | September 1, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Why do they never play Monk or Mingus or Coltrane at Klan meetings?

Racism.

One cannot listen to jazz and be a racist.

Posted by: matthewjblack | September 1, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

This post is for the Shale's article:

"angriestdogintheworld wrote:
like Sara Palin infected with one side and the inability to play nuance... a checker player in a world dominated by chess players. Good for forming a mob but not much in the way of moving civilization forward."

Dawg, if you're going to cheat on us with another columnist, then at least don't be so funny when you do!

Posted by: margaretmeyers | September 1, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

This morning, Tom Shales' column is about Liz Cheney's appearance on This Week. It's deja vu all over again!

"Cheney's behavior on the talk shows is guerrilla rhetoric to some degree, and intentionally rude; its flouting of civility helps brand her a hero to her constituency...It may not matter to Cheney that her own argument can't be understood as she continues on her course of rudeness as rhetoric. Content is moot; this is "discussion" as obfuscation, the use of language not to communicate but to obliterate. And it works. It's also considered "good TV" in some quarters...Is there a connection between Cheney's technique and the shout-down approach of those who attend town meetings on health-care reform only so they can disrupt them?"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/31/AR2009083103798.html

I'm glad Shales is calling the Right out on this abysmal debating technique they are using everywhere (it sure beats thinking, speaking and listening).

Posted by: margaretmeyers | September 1, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

reason5, pls eml me at

mark_in_austin@operamail.com

Posted by: mark_in_austin | September 1, 2009 7:51 AM | Report abuse

To which "resident racist troll" are you referring?

Posted by: JakeD | September 1, 2009 2:07 AM | Report abuse

@dog:

The good thing is there are signs the so-called MSM is starting to push back on these bogus racist proxies: teabaggers, birthers, Town Hall terro-, er, protesters. Even NBC's David Gregory, who speaks out about nothing, had a nice segment on that armed mental with the McVeigh/Jefferson quote on his T-shirt who showed up at a BHO event. He was not there to debate the public option.

Riddle me this, dog: Same facts. What would have happened to that sociopath in the Bush Administration? Would he have been allowed to stand there fully armed during the entire event and then (Ready for my close-up, Mr. DeMille) do the talk show rounds. I don't think so, IMO. Say what you want about W, his people would have "handled" that guy. I can't believe the First Lady was too pleased at how that was addressed.
=====================================
sorry to get back so late... went to the Fair last night.

Certainly the repuglicans would shut it down quickly... and Obama seems to be waiting for a pretext. These aren't the shiniest peanuts in the Astroturd, 99.99% are cowards, a slice of a splice are like the guy who walked into the Holocaust Museum with a .22. Vast, vast majority are like our resident racist troll, content to set off stink bombs and participate in a mob screaming commie pinko. They know who has the superior firepower.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | September 1, 2009 1:25 AM | Report abuse

Beck can have 20 million viewers. It won't matter. If he has no sponsors he has no show. The TV programs exist only to get you to watch the ads.

Posted by: broadwayjoe
=================================

I'm out of the loop... Desperate Housewifes 24 Million viewers, Glenn Beck 20 Million, and I've not seen either. Other than Washington Week, I get all my info ISO not passively.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | September 1, 2009 1:06 AM | Report abuse

Nuts. HIt the wrong button. To continue...

I'm convinced. Snowbama using a feminine crack with reference to another poster.

One rare on topic post. Christ naming his chief of staff is right up their with Biden's being nominated as well as that of Judd Gregg. All three were meant to be seat warmers.

This one is for Margaret:

Voice over: Moses went to the mountain and God spoke unto him.

God: Moses, this is the Lord thy God, commanding you to obey my law. Do you hear me?

Moses: Yes, I hear you, I hear you. A deaf man could hear you.

God: What?

Moses: I bunished, forget it. Oh, Lord! Why have you chosen me? What would you have me do for you?

God: I shall give you My laws and you shall take them unto the people.

Moses: Yes, Lord! [Lightning strikes.] Wow! [Disappears around the corner and reappears carrying tablets]

Moses: Lord, I shall give these laws unto the people.

Moses addressing the people: Hear me, oh hear me! All pay heed! The Lord, the Lord Jehovah, has given unto you these 15...

(drops tablet)

Oy. Ten! Ten commandments!


And don't forget, NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 31, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

Nuts. HIt the wrong button. To continue...

I'm convinced. Snowbama using a feminine crack with reference to another poster.

One rare on topic post. Christ naming his chief of staff is right up their with Biden's being nominated as well as that of Judd Gregg. All three were meant to be seat warmers.

This one is for Margaret:

Voice over: Moses went to the mountain and God spoke unto him.

God: Moses, this is the Lord thy God, commanding you to obey my law. Do you hear me?

Moses: Yes, I hear you, I hear you. A deaf man could hear you.

God: What?

Moses: I bunished, forget it. Oh, Lord! Why have you chosen me? What would you have me do for you?

God: I shall give you My laws and you shall take them unto the people.

Moses: Yes, Lord! [Lightning strikes.] Wow! [Disappears around the corner and reappears carrying tablets]

Moses: Lord, I shall give these laws unto the people.

Moses addressing the people: Hear me, oh hear me! All pay heed!

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 31, 2009 11:34 PM | Report abuse

I'm convinced. Snowbama using a feminine crack with reference to another poster.

One rare on topic post. Christ naming his chief of staff is right up their with Biden's being nominated as well as that of Judd Gregg. All three were meant to be seat warmers.

This one is for Margaret:

Voice over: Moses went to the mountain and God spoke unto him.

God: Moses, this is the Lord thy God, commanding you to obey my law. Do you hear me?

Moses: Yes, I hear you, I hear you. A deaf man could hear you.

God: What?

Now, I'm really going to go make that gazpacho. Checked a few recipes and it seems 36 hours of marinating would be a bit too much. So, I made a few shrimp burgers instead. Had some shrimp that needed to be used, so they became the meal instead of a garnish. After all, I must be handy with a blade. :-;

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 31, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

I said "never". BTW: does a letter-writing campaign qualify as "full ignore" mode. DDAWD?

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 11:27 PM | Report abuse

"drindl:

Don't you worry dear -- pResident Obama will never be lynched or forced to pick cotton "

The line has been crossed, people. I have just written to Chris Cilizza and the Post Ombudsman. I invite all of you regular readers to do the same. The Washington Post should not provide a forum for this sewage -- let them know how you feel. Provide them with some of his past postings -- I know many of you keep track. Let them see the hatred and inherent violence, and the way he dominates this blog with his filthy propaganda. This cannot stand. We cannot allow this pollution in our public discourse.

Time to speak out.

Posted by: drindl | August 31, 2009 11:02 PM | Report abuse

drindl:

Don't you worry dear -- pResident Obama will never be lynched or forced to pick cotton -- nice "red herring" though.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 10:39 PM | Report abuse

P.S. to bsimon1:

Cheney never said the Office of Vice-President was in neither the Executive nor the Legislative branches -- he said it was a hybrid of both -- which it is. Gov. Palin was also correct re: her description of the VP being "in charge of" the Senate.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

zouk is snobama. trust me, i've been on this blog longer than anyone here. sad perhaps, but true. his patterns are easy to recognize.


"Too much idiocy on both sides of the spectrum." No, actually, Mike, there's a certain amount of idiocy on the left, but it in no way comes close to the violent, eliminationist idiocy on the right.

This is the problem with squishy liberalism -- we want to say, oh hey, we're all the same, but we are at this point in time, definitely not. We have no one on the left who is agitating for the assassination of the president of the United States, while on the right, we have a huge group of people who are doing just that.

Just try to imagine the outcry if an angry Democrat had brought an assault weapon to a Bush venue. I mean, just try. But several people bring guns to Democratic town halls, and -- jeez, no one has a problem. The MSM just accepts it -- no big deal. We have a black guy as president. so it's not like we have a history of lynching or slavery or anything.

This is a freaking sickness that we are accepting and allowing to spread. Please stop talking about all this hate speech as if it were equivocal and normal and fine and healthyl. It isn't. It is a rot from within.

Posted by: drindl | August 31, 2009 10:34 PM | Report abuse

LOL!!! Even Bill Clinton knew that "the President is the chief law enforcement officer"; this is so funny!

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/conlaw/materials/impeachmentmaterials1.pdf

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

Mainstream media "blinded by the hit count?"

MINDLESS, SPACE-CONSUMING, OBFUSCATING BLOG-SPAMMING TO WA-PO, NYT, POLITICO, DAILYKOS, ETC.:

THE IDEOLOGICALLY-DRIVEN SPAWN OF A HARD-RIGHT, TAXPAYER-FUNDED 'PSY OP'?

http://nowpublic.com/world/govt-fusion-center-spying-pretext-harass-and-censor

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 31, 2009 10:28 PM | Report abuse

"The official also objected to Cheney's statement that "the president is the chief law enforcement officer in the land.""


Must be the same copy of the constitution that has the VP in neither the executive nor legislative branches.


.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 31, 2009 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Yes, please go to full ignore. You both "ignore" logic too.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 9:37 PM | Report abuse

reason5 is to the right of mark_in_austin and posts some of the most thoughtful horse-race comments of anyone I've seen on The Fix in the >2 years I've been here. But most of the thoughtful conservatives and moderates that used to be here do not post much anymore. Too much idiocy on both sides of the spectrum.

==

No idea where you get that "both sides" stuff, I never see anyone on the left comparable to JD or zouk or any of the drudge trolls that show up for a few hours and hoot.

Reason5 is a cut above them but he seems pretty angry most of the time, and he's only one, while there are dozens of stupid howlers on the right. I really see no equivalence. We have nobody posting here on the left who only comes to taunt or to disrupt, I really don't see any symmetry at all.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 9:33 PM | Report abuse

nodebris:

reason5 is to the right of mark_in_austin and posts some of the most thoughtful horse-race comments of anyone I've seen on The Fix in the >2 years I've been here. But most of the thoughtful conservatives and moderates that used to be here do not post much anymore. Too much idiocy on both sides of the spectrum.

Posted by: mnteng | August 31, 2009 9:06 PM | Report abuse

Hey CC, can you get with your DC contacts and see if you can't maybe *hire* a few intelligent conservatives to post comments on your blog?

==

Where ya been, dude? The only conservative in print who isn't foaming at the mouth is David Brooks, and conservatives hate him for the lack of foam.

"Conservative" seems to mean "bat sh|t crazy" now. Birthers, gun nuts, conspiracy creeps, paranoids, the whole bunch.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 8:58 PM | Report abuse

[Translation: I can't find any posts where I challenged the right of Panama-born McCain to be president because, well, I never wrote any. I am now totally busted for my bigotry. I am sorry if anyone was offended by my incoherent repetitive rants (standard non-apology apology).]

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 8:41 PM

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 31, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

I hear you, G&T. It's just that JD goes berserk every time I post that request. It seems to be his kryptonite... or bug spray.

==

Well back before people started responding again it was kinda fun watching him post wilder and wilder lies trying to get attention. He's not smart enough to be interesting but his indefatigability ruins this blog. Please go on full ignore.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse

The ASPCA's going to come after you, broadwayjoe. Cruelty to dumb animals and all.

Posted by: nodebris | August 31, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse

I hear you, G&T. It's just that JD goes berserk every time I post that request. It seems to be his kryptonite... or bug spray.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 31, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Hey CC, can you get with your DC contacts and see if you can't maybe *hire* a few intelligent conservatives to post comments on your blog? The volunteers are fairly lacking. Anything to the right of m_i_a isn't even worth glancing at. There's got to be someone out there who's conservative, intelligent, honest, and interesting, right?

Right?

Hello?

CC?

Anyone?

Posted by: nodebris | August 31, 2009 8:42 PM | Report abuse

Darn, I knew that "ignore" was too good to last forever, but I was hoping for at least ONE day. Oh well. I did "cut and paste" some earlier posts of mine -- McCain's situation is different because BOTH of his parents were U.S. citizens -- if only his mother had been, with a similar father situation (maybe from Germany or Austria) I would indeed be making the same objection. But, then, he wouldn't have made it to Annapolis or probably even the U.S. Senate. Nice try though.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 8:41 PM | Report abuse

JD, we asked you to paste in any prior post to ANY blog in which you challenged Panama-born McCain's eligibility to be President.

==

You're joking, right? Whenever a troll promises to do a post later, it means never.

Anyway there's no point. He's a lying piece and we both know it. He regards entreaties to ignore as something to mock, let's just let him twist in the wind, since CC seems inclined to sanction him.

DDAWD is right as usual. Just act as though his crap isn't on the screen, until such time as we have an Ignore Poster option.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 8:37 PM | Report abuse

"Is snowbama Zouk?"

It might be the same actor, but not quite the same character. Close enough: Vomit on the sidewalk.

Posted by: nodebris | August 31, 2009 8:35 PM | Report abuse

JD, we asked you to paste in any prior post to ANY blog in which you challenged Panama-born McCain's eligibility to be President. How's that going, my fellow prisoner, as Mac might say? ;)

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 31, 2009 8:30 PM | Report abuse

A panicky Lynn Jenkins puts out a national call for a Great White Hope. Who answers the call--a Wall Street Journal oped wants Cheney for President!

==

Remember when Murdoch said he would leave the WSJ editorial pages alone?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 8:21 PM
________
Yep.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 31, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

I meant that broadwayjoe and GoldAndTanzanite (fka "christox8") have posted more blog clog than I have. Good to see DDAWD take them behind the wood shed. Let's see if ANY definition of "ignore" sticks this time. I'm not holding my breath.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 8:23 PM | Report abuse

A panicky Lynn Jenkins puts out a national call for a Great White Hope. Who answers the call--a Wall Street Journal oped wants Cheney for President!

==

Remember when Murdoch said he would leave the WSJ editorial pages alone?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Could zouk get into the troll Hall of fame as zouk AND snowbama?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 31, 2009 8:20 PM | Report abuse

gets wet over Palin, check

Hi, zouk.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 8:14 PM | Report abuse

BHO approval at 55, doing fine. Latest Marist poll: BHO beats Palin, the highest profile GOP candidate for 2012, by 23 points. A panicky Lynn Jenkins puts out a national call for a Great White Hope. Who answers the call--a Wall Street Journal oped wants Cheney for President! LOL

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/31/cheney-for-president-wall_n_273246.html

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 31, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Base: Please refrain from mentioning Governor Palin. It just reminds me of that whole experience debate. I thought I had put that behind me but now the chickens have come home to roost. I love that phrase. Can't remember where I heard it.

I am afraid that the voters have figured out that I have never done any of this stuff before. In fact when Ms Palin blogged, she pointed out that my death panels were still intact, something I was unaware of before she made it clear. the least she could do as a loyal American is alert me first when she is going to hijack the majority rule from alaska.

I was under the impression Nancy was running things but I am learning every day. Just last week I learned that we are still at war in Iraq. I thought after all those code pinkers went home that it was officially over. Give me some more time and I will figure all this stuff out.

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 8:06 PM | Report abuse

administration official, who asked not to be identified, said

>>>>>>>>>

I will be utilizing this ruse a lot in the near future. Please pretend like it is actual news. you may notice that none of my official pronouncements will have much substance. I need to be able to have the unnamed official do my bidding to survive. no one in my admin will actually attach their name to my stuff. It is why I am having so much trouble filling all those 500 empty positions. I was led to think that everyone loved me, but apparantly, that was leaked by an unamed source too. the reality is that they won't come near me with a ten foot pole.

After six short months,everything I stood for has been shown to be a farce. So what about the reputations. I am creating a reputation czar who will give yours back after I am gone. Look at the bright side, your reputation will be better than Rham's.

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 7:55 PM | Report abuse

referring to male posters as feminine, check

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Obama's high approval,
Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite

We could use a few good women like you over at the ministry of Propoganda. the last one we saw like you was Baghdad bob and he has not seen his match, until now.


anyone who can translate a record drop in polls, a giant disapproval for all my policies, a enormous deficit in trustworthiness into something favorable deserves the position of my wimpering official tool down in the press department. But I do need to know. were you able to keep a straight face? that is very important for our base.

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse

But seriously, Dunn's final take on Mrs. Phalin is this:

"That there is an underlying racism that fuels Palin's obsession goes quite nearly without saying. But her ardent support of Beck this week, on the anniversary of her being named to the GOP ticket, says oodles about her obsession."

Sorry, Gregory Charles Royal. Looks like her policy is unchanged.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 31, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

A fun read: the hysterically defensive Palin crowd ("Palinistas" they call themselves) vomiting blood over conservative writer David Brooks, red-eyed with rage that a conservative sees some good in Obama:

http://www.conservatives4palin.com/

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 7:37 PM | Report abuse

BREAKING: Cheney full of beans

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/31/cheney.cia.interrogations/index.html

" Cheney made clear in the interview, conducted Friday, that he believes that President Obama directed Holder to launch the review in response to pressure from left-wing Democrats.

But the administration official, who asked not to be identified, said, "the attorney general made a determination independently, based on the facts and the law."

The official also objected to Cheney's statement that "the president is the chief law enforcement officer in the land."

"That's not true," the official replied. "It's the attorney general."

==

Master manipulator who got laws passed by getting secret signatures to a hand-carried bit of paper doesn't know basic apportionment of responsibility? Yeah right.

Hope he dies in prison.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

HuffPo's Geoffrey Dunn writes about Ms. Sarah Heath's obsession with...BHO. Could it be she has changed her, uh, "policy" as described by her almost best friend Gregory Charles Royal? (Google his name and Palin's for posts on what that "policy" is.) :-)

Ms. Heath talks about how she has more "endurance" than BHO??!!!

"Could you beat the president? I betcha I'd have more endurance. My one claim to fame in my own little internal running circle is a sub-four marathon. It wasn't necessarily a good running time, but it proves I have the endurance within me to at least gut it out and that is something...So if it were a long race that required a lot of endurance, I'd win."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-dunn/sarah-palins-obama-obsess_b_271993.html

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 31, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Voting for Alan Keyes is a red herring. Since he was on the ballot in only 3 states, he could not win. Voting for a black man for president, who cannot win that election, is no proof against a charge of racism.

The nomination of Keyes by the AIP was a more-obvious ploy than McCain's selection of Palin.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 3:57 PM
__________
Agreed. It's like saying you support Michelle Maglagang, empress of self-hate, so you must be for Filipinos. It actually cuts the other way. Keyes is an embarrassment to himself and the community.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 31, 2009 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Our luminometer is a FLUOstar. It reads plates. It works pretty well for me. The bigger issue for me is trying to transfect mammalian cells with these luciferase plasmids.

==

Plasmids in eukaryotic cells?

That's a new one on me. But then my micro was decades ago

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 7:05 PM | Report abuse

Is snowbama Zouk? Discuss.

==

Possibly, but I find it hard to imagine he could refrain from the name-mangling that was so compulsive for zouk. However:

unrelated to topic, check

prolific, check

stupid-angry, check

enraged at Obama's high approval, check

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 7:03 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD:

Thanks for the info -- we're in the market for a new luminometer. We do mammalian cell transfection all the time. If you want to talk about it, I'm @ gmail -- or you can find me via my publications.

Posted by: mnteng | August 31, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Post count out of 365. Just for grins, it's alphabetical today.

Question of the day. Is snowbama Zouk? Discuss.

BB

Name Count
angriestdogintheworld 12
broadwayjoe 48
bsimon1 14
DDAWD 25
drindl 36
FairlingtonBlade 9
GoldAndTanzanite 44
JakeD 81
jckdoors 1
leichtman 1
margaretmeyers 11
mark_in_austin 3
matthewjblack 3
mikeinmidland 21
mnteng 7
MoreAndBetterPolls 1
Name 1
nodebris 3
priley8104 3
reason5 1
scrivener50 7
sjxylib 1
snowbama 29
trep1 6
yeswiican 4

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 31, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

http://www.davidvitter.com/site/c.ktJUJ7MNIuE/b.5379789/k.95C3/Healthcare_Splash.htm

David Vitter ad against potential opponent Charlie Melancon. Health care based attack.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 31, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

"You're not.

I'd be interested to hear how much you took from the silly tourists at the poker table. I'd be more interested to hear what kind of luminometer you're using, if you like it, particularly if it is a plate reader.

Posted by: mnteng"

I won about $3000 over the weekend. Now this isn't even close to typical. I definitely got a good amount of luck. That being said, I've been playing a lot online against far superior opponents, so when I go to the casino, it's like we're not even playing the same game. The thing is that the buy-in for the game is about $200. The thing most tourists do is limit themselves to that initial $200. That makes them extremely risk averse, so I can bluff people out like crazy. They know I'm bluffing, but aren't willing to fight back without a great hand. The reason I won so much was when they did have good hands, I managed to get something even better. Two times I managed to spike a set on the flop against people with pocket aces and take all their chips when they shoved on a harmless looking board. It's far more optimal to not limit yourself to the original $200 and instead keep rebuying to the maximum so that you can get the most value for your good hands. I can understand a tourist not wanting to do that, though. I used to be the same way. Now that I've won a good amount online, I cashed some of it out and can finance a few buyins at the casino, so I don't have to be so risk averse. I might have won a good $1000 just by shoving small raises out preflop. I just know I'm due for some bad beats now, though. Winning 15 buyins over a weekend has got to be bad karma.

Our luminometer is a FLUOstar. It reads plates. It works pretty well for me. The bigger issue for me is trying to transfect mammalian cells with these luciferase plasmids. It can be a real headache to do so. It's a lot easier with bacteria. I haven't done a luciferase experiment in a while, though. I've been going back to my bread and butter Westerns. I'm kind of trying to shift from looking at transcription to looking at degradation by manipulating the proteosome system in the cells I'm looking at. Mixed results so far.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 31, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Just what do Republicans who worship Mary Jo as a saint think she was doing? She was an adult, not a child, and she knew Kennedy was married.

Posted by: matthewjblack


she did not come to the voters and ask for her judgment to be trusted. she was trying to breath from the air bubble in the car for 10 hours while Uncle Ted was preparing his excuses and alibis. come to think of it, Unclu Ted did to her pretty much what I am doing to the nation. Drown them while I try to appear like I know what I am doing. I love you Ted. you were an example to us all. you even made bill look like an amatuer for getting caught with the intern. Do you know how many creepy trysts Uncle Ted had with no one uttering a peep about it? Masterful..

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone in DC point me to a new church for me to hang out in? None of these local preachers have the pizazz I am used to in Chicago. all that talk about love and foregiveness has no place on a Sunday morning excursion. I want to hear about blame, hate, envy and the evils of America the oppressor.

this is even harder than choosing a dog.

Perhaps a new religion czar>>>>> hmmmm.

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

The same nincompoops who're all amped up about the birth certificate are screaming that MJK was pregnant and that Kennedy rolled his car off a bridge to hide a paternity suit.

This idea has more holes in it than a paper target at a marksman's rifle range .. for one, Kennedy had been in a plane crash many years before and was laid up six months with broken back and ribs.

Not that logic matters to right-wing trolls.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Just what do Republicans who worship Mary Jo as a saint think she was doing? She was an adult, not a child, and she knew Kennedy was married.

Posted by: matthewjblack | August 31, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD writes:
"I'm not really sure why I'm the only one who understands this."

You're not.

I'd be interested to hear how much you took from the silly tourists at the poker table. I'd be more interested to hear what kind of luminometer you're using, if you like it, particularly if it is a plate reader.

Posted by: mnteng | August 31, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

JakeD, for the record: I have not checked up on the citizenship laws beyond what you and Mark-in-Austin have posted. As I noted in a previous post, nothing there causes me to rethink the issue of President Obama's legitimacy. You have not provided a single piece of evidence to support your claim, and you simply dismiss every comment or evidence that challenges it. I confess to have never tried to run for POTUS, but I cannot imagine that it is possible to get so far without the basics requirements being checked. (Not a big fan of conspiracy theories of any stripe.) So if you want to engage me in conversation, it will have to be about another topic.

If you took "Erkannt" as an insult, then you are looking for slights. Every person has an on-line persona of sorts. I think discussion has revealed yours. You like to provoke people and then pretend to be shocked when people are provoked. (Contant references to Mary Jo during Kennedy's funeral or asking if the White House will replace Easter eggs with watermelons .)That's fine with me, it's your life. I just called you on it. That is not an ad hominem argument or a personal insult.

Now I believe I have answered your quesitons directly and you have answered mine. There is no need for you to deal with me ever again.
TREP

Posted by: trep1 | August 31, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Why are Polosi and Reid showing up in this thread? What are the Klansmen and Trailer Parkers and Alien Abductees going to say when we finally replace the conservative Catholic Pelosi and the the ultra-conservative Mormon Reid with REAL liberals?

Posted by: matthewjblack | August 31, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

CC is on vaca. Besides, "contributing" isn't part of the rules.

==

I think CC has decided to sanction trolls coming from the same side of the political spectrum as himself, however idiotic they may be

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

CC is on vaca. Besides, "contributing" isn't part of the rules.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

I agree G&T. Unfortunately the House version of cap and trade is not going to keep us from "roasting the planet" in the next six months. It's a start. And once passed, the US will have a little more international cred, and maybe we can get China on board.

Conversely, health care has a good shot at passing, and will have more effects sooner. Including, hopefully, allowing us to afford to be better environmental stewards in the future.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

"Funny. It says the enviros assumed clear sailing in the Senate after the House passed its version. I heard that cap and trade was going nowhere in the Senate, at least not this year."

It's funny. Democrats and progressives always assume that the virtues of their causes sell themselves. They probably do, which is why they can get away, to some degree, with being boring. The Republicans and industrialists, on the other hand, are forced to have a lot of razzle dazzle. It's almost Darwinistic. Their ideas and policies are so terrible and destructive that if they can't sell the sizzle, they've got nothing. When you've got steak AND sizzle like you do with Obama, it's not even close. Democrats need to stop simply relying on the virtues of their positions to sell themselves. It helps, but it won't carry them all the way there. You see it with the environment. You see it with health care. Republicans can get their message out rapidly. Yeah, the Democrats don't have the press to bolster their message, but there are plenty of other ways to get it out.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 31, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

To ignore someone doesn't simply mean to communicate directly with him. It also means to not acknowledge his presence by even talking about him. Don't refer to him as the troll. Don't comment on how insane he's become. To him, it's just like you're responding to him directly. We're doing pretty well with not talking TO him. Now let's not talk ABOUT him either.

==

You really need to wonder about "the gracious host" in all this. Is it possible that CC sees the endlessly repeated LONG FORM stuff as contributing?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

And while I support it, I care about a tenth as much about that as healthcare, so I'm for prioritizing. Maybe next year, guys.

==

Passing the best healthcare bill around won't matter a hill of beans if we roast the planet.

As far as I'm concerned the extinction of a single specie as a result of human activity trumps all human concerns. I don't give a god damn how many babies are aborted or how many people die of treatable diseases when compared to wiping out a vertebrate specie. I think that condemns US as moral beings.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

racist troll wrote: "If Obama is not a "natural-born" citizen, then my argument is hardly a red herring."

If a red herring isn't a red herring, than it isn't a red herring.

Posted by: nodebris | August 31, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

MINDLESS, SPACE-CONSUMING, OBFUSCATING BLOG-SPAMMING TO WA-PO, NYT, POLITICO, DAILYKOS, ETC.:

THE IDEOLOGICALLY-DRIVEN SPAWN OF A HARD-RIGHT, TAXPAYER-FUNDED 'PSY OP'?

http://nowpublic.com/world/govt-fusion-center-spying-pretext-harass-and-censor

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 31, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Funny. It says the enviros assumed clear sailing in the Senate after the House passed its version. I heard that cap and trade was going nowhere in the Senate, at least not this year.

And while I support it, I care about a tenth as much about that as healthcare, so I'm for prioritizing. Maybe next year, guys.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

"DDAWD: understood and agreed. Do we help the newbies understand or let them figure it out?

Posted by: mikeinmidland"

We explain it to them, of course. It's usually not the newbies who are the problem, though. Maybe we need to expand our definition of "ignore." To ignore someone doesn't simply mean to communicate directly with him. It also means to not acknowledge his presence by even talking about him. Don't refer to him as the troll. Don't comment on how insane he's become. To him, it's just like you're responding to him directly. We're doing pretty well with not talking TO him. Now let's not talk ABOUT him either. There's plenty of more interesting stuff out there. Health care, Glen Beck, my insane poker winnings this weekend, the Redskins putting a major hurt on Tom Brady, or how about this article on how the industry lobby have taken control of the environment debate?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/30/AR2009083002606.html?hpid=topnews

Posted by: DDAWD | August 31, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD: understood and agreed. Do we help the newbies understand or let them figure it out?

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Duvall Patrick has set the special election for January 19. That's just 146 days after Ted's death, so that's about as quick as the law allows.

The primaries are set for Dec. 8.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

"Is there anyone here who isn't sick and tired of this troll and his repetitions?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite"

He's not here to be liked. He's here to get attention. If he gets it, he's happy. Pointing out that no one wants him here is meaningless to him since he's not after approval. However, when we talk about him, he's happy that he's disrupting the thread. He will go away if he's ignored, but it will have to be for more than a few days. And ignoring him includes not talking about him or how unhinged he is or referring to the troll. It's pretending that his words don't show up on the screen.

I'm not really sure why I'm the only one who understands this.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 31, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Is there anyone here who isn't sick and tired of this troll and his repetitions?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

See it's a "good thing" to insist I answer all of your questions even though you fail to answer mine. Now, if I could get them to follow DDAWD's advice to "ignore" me completely.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

JakeD, I seem to have struck a nerve. "Erkannt" comes from a short story "Unmasking a confidence trickster." Work on your German translations or get a better translator if you do not know German. It does not mean “I found him.” It means to spot or to recognize (in this case “unmask”).

==

erkennen is the verb "to recognize."

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

trep1:

The Kafka reference was a veiled insult as I doubt many others knew where it came from. You and I did however, and you still haven't answered my question to you. It doesn't matter to me one way or another -- I did not ask if you had read the information posted (as it was even before mark_in_austin posted the link to Wiki) so that's a red herring, as "nodebris" would say -- the choice is actually yours whether you want me to answer any further questions.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

trep, I've sparred with him on Quo Warranto, newspaper accounts, Kenyan grandmothers and the rest. Eventually his arguments come down to "I want to see the documents." He says he that would satisfy him, but also that he is not a document forgery expert. It would be very illogical to accept the documents as real without authentication. And if they were authenticated, then the question would be who authenticated them?

I know I've slipped down this slope a few times myself, but trust me, his "refusing to answer your questions" is a good thing.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I hope for their sake they do not have my approval ratings. How could I have gone from most loved to most distrusted in such a short period? could it have been my hiding under the bed all this time??

I figured Nancy and Harry had it all wrapped up. that left me free to apologize for all of america's evils over the years.

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

"I am totally ignoring the 10 Commandments until someone shows me the tablets and has them authenticated by carbon dating and a deposition from Moses. Wait. I've gotta talk to Moses or I AM NOT BELIEVIN'. Nothing else will do. Any other questions?"

Silly Margaret, haven't you seen "Raiders of the Lost Ark"?

The tablets have turned to dust.

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 31, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if Corzine's negatives are going to soften enough for him to win, but he is certainly on the upswing.

It's a different deal for Deeds. I have yet to see or hear a speech, but if he's a wonkish policy guy, he needs to own that and not try to be something different. Substance can definitely sell in today's environment.

I still think, though, that these gubernatorial races have very little to do with Obama, either way.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

JakeD, I seem to have struck a nerve. "Erkannt" comes from a short story "Unmasking a confidence trickster." Work on your German translations or get a better translator if you do not know German. It does not mean “I found him.” It means to spot or to recognize (in this case “unmask”). I think it fits this situation. If you think that is an ad hominem argument, then you we'll have to just disagree. I think your line of reasoning is disingenuous because you are never satisfied with what the opposition says. If they challenge you, then you say they are name calling and did not answer your question, so you won't answer theirs. Aside from the juvenile nature of the response, you are not reading what I write carefully or you are willingly misconstruing it. By asking you how the link you provided helped your argument, I did acknowledge reading the information. There is a difference between attacking your information or your reasoning and attacking you. Whether or not you chose to engage my posts in the future is your affair.

Posted by: trep1 | August 31, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

I am totally ignoring the 10 Commandments until someone shows me the tablets and has them authenticated by carbon dating and a deposition from Moses. Wait. I've gotta talk to Moses or I AM NOT BELIEVIN'. Nothing else will do. Any other questions?

Posted by: margaretmeyers | August 31, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

MinM, that kind of steady financial news over the next 14 months will help pull the 2010 elections to Obama and the Democrats. They will have saved us from the deep, dark hole dug by the Republicans.

Even the upcoming elections are looking better and better. In Virginia, McDonnell has exposed himself as both a #1 bonehead (I've got a welfare policy paper already; here it is!) and a smaller government/lower taxes/ criminalize sex outside of marriage kind of Conservative. They are so electable. Corzine and the left in New Jersey are successfully reminding everyone just who Christie has been best-buddies with during his years of public service. With just 9 weeks to go, even a mousey guy like Deeds is getting a bump, and an intelligent incumbent like Corzine knows this is when you win the election, not earlier.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | August 31, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

GoldAndTanzinite and mikeinmidland:

Re: blog clog

You have posted on this thread more than I have.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Voting for Alan Keyes is a red herring. Since he was on the ballot in only 3 states, he could not win. Voting for a black man for president, who cannot win that election, is no proof against a charge of racism.

The nomination of Keyes by the AIP was a more-obvious ploy than McCain's selection of Palin.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

There is an alien base on the far side of the moon.

Until someone can show me millimeter resolution photos of the entire far side of the moon, and the authenticity of those photos established beyond any and all doubts, I will continue to post every five minutes that there is an alien base.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I am so pleased that all that talk I aired last year before the election about the new world order where we all got along, we all forgot our race, we all worked for bipartisanship, we all went to the middle, we were all repectful and so forth, was immediately ignored by my base of leftists. I am so happy you understood these admonishments were only intended for our most hated adversaries - the Republicans and not for our friends and allies - the terrorists, communists, socialists, leftists, facsists and terminally green.

so in the future when I accuse the others of twisting facts, ignore my claims about surgeons cutting out tonsils, ignore my statement about $50K operations, tone down the death panels and above all, trumpet to the skies my abilites at frugality. I never spend a cent that is not absolutely mandatory for world peace and the survival of civilization.

and if anyone asks about Medicarew going broke, tell them all we need is more, more more government intervention to correct the situation. And according to my economic policy, if we spend more it will be cheaper and if we cut the program, the benefits will rise. I am a magic man.

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

There is no doubt in anyone's mind that the birther conspiracy troll is a proxy for racist attack. Some people literally cannot deal with the fact that a black man is the Commander in Chief and since there is no disputing the results of the election, a solid trouncing of the white conservative male John McCain, the attack has to be on Obama's legitimacy.

And of course that legitimacy has been completely established but that is no comfort to racists, who need to believe that it cannot possibly be so. Hence the birth certificate BS.

And its mind-numbing yet ineffective repetition.

Take it to stormfront, everyone here has read it a thousand times, nobody is budged, nobody is going to be, it just clogs the blog with swinish cracker racism.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

And just because all the Big Foot photos so far are fakes, doesn't mean he's not out there.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

If Obama is not a "natural-born" citizen, then my argument is hardly a red herring.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

If it walks like a racist troll, and it quacks like a racist troll . . .

After it gets done trying to get juice out of "ad hominem," maybe it can reflect on the inherent dishonesty of a grossly overworked "red herring" strategy.

Posted by: nodebris | August 31, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

According to the Financial Times, the TARP and related programs have made a $14B profit so far.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0296cf1a-9594-11de-90e0-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1

If I recall correctly, the major risk was that these loans would go out and the companies would still default, leaving the taxpayer with nothing. So, the TARP is a success, but might not have been without the other measures taken to revive the economy.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

It’s the same old story for Rangel, who last year reluctantly acknowledged what he described as an inadvertent failure to report $75,000 in rental income for a beachfront property in the Dominican Republic. Then, many critics—including this page—called on him to step down from his chairmanship, at least until his professed innocence could be established. He didn’t.

Now, it gets worse. Newly-filed disclosures show that Rangel failed to report at least half a million dollars in assets in 2007. They also show that his net worth is between $1 million and $2.5 million, or about twice what he claimed in 2008.


now that is my kind of Dem politician. I am considering elevating him to cabinet level.

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Clean Energy Forum in Michigan on Wednesday:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MI_ENERGY_FORUM_MIOL-?SITE=MIDTN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Jennifer Granholm is definitely the hottest governor ineligible to run for President.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

@DDAWD: you're precisely correct. "Ad hominen" refers to sidestepping a critique of the argument by attacking the arguer instead. It need not take the form of name-calling. One could for example attack an argument dismissing the carcinogenity of tobacco by pointing out that the one making the argument is getting paid by the tobacco industy; that would be an ad hominem and doesn't mean calling the arguer any names.

For our racist troll to whine about being called a racist is really kind of laughable since it's nothing more than a statement of established fact. And not only because of the universality of that perception, but by his own endlessly repeated words.

There's a millimeter of wiggle on the birther thing, I suppose, but there is none whatever on the interracial dating thing, or the watermelons, or any of the rest of it. And then there's the homophobia.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

mark_in_austin:

What's your definition?

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

"For it to be a personal, or ad hominem attack, it would have to be directed at an individual. If you are taking that personally, you are self-identifying as both a racist and a troll. Which makes it definition (not defamation) of character."

I've always considered an ad hominem attack to be a response to an argument, not just a characterization. By this definition, to call someone a racist swine isn't an ad hominem attack. To say that someone thinks that Obama is ineligible to be President because he's racist swine is an ad hominem attack. It's responding to an argument by attacking the person making the argument instead of the argument itself. But it must be in response to an argument.

I'm not sure how accurate I am. That's just how I've always used the phrase.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 31, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

And I thought Corzine was toast...

==

Well the Virginia race is getting uh interesting with McDonnell's fifteen-point program for a conservative Christian government. He's trying to backpedal away from what he wrote in his college paper but then there is that nasty spot of bother of his having done actual legislative work on ten of them. And of course it's the usual tired social-conservative shopping list. Abortion, gays, etc. etc. etc.

We don't want a Taliban style government in the US. As the word gets out on McDonnell's extremity, he should drop in polls.

Oh, he is dropping. Cool.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

GoldAndTanzanite / chrisfox8:

I take it you are referring to me again as a "racist troll"? DDAWD is not going to like this one bit. Hopefully, neither will our gracious host when he returns.

Either way, it's not a single bizarre exception -- both FairlingtonBlade and I don't think that I am "racist" and have stated so for the record (neither do my wife and friends, nor many "lurkers" you think don't exist simply because they don't post, but I don't need them to prove you wrong) so you are, once again, wrong -- time to break out the "literal austism" label every time I prove you wrong through.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Excellent use of hyperbole my dimwitted base. I especially adore how you turn a record braking ratings sweep into "almost off the air" and over 1000 paid speaking invitations to being marginalized.

I wish people would pay attention to me at this stage. what happened to my greek columns and brigades of teleprompters? I have to threaten the networks to get them to cover my daily "most important speech ever made".

I herby command all devoted liberals to watch my show. If I combine you all with Katie, Keith, Rachel and CNN, I just might get to the audience Glenn has at 5 pm (previously known as the graveyard shift).

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Obama tweet about the White House garden, fresh produce being grown with the help of elementary school children:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/The-Story-of-the-White-House-Garden/

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

For those of you KFI listeners upset about Rush Limbaugh and Dr. Laura being actually "off the air" today, you can still catch them on AM 600 (KOGO down here from San Diego, especially if you are on the coast in Orange and L.A. County).

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

For it to be a personal, or ad hominem attack, it would have to be directed at an individual. If you are taking that personally, you are self-identifying as both a racist and a troll. Which makes it definition (not defamation) of character.

==

The perception of racism for this troll is, with a single bizarre exception, universal here, and also universal in other blog where the same racist troll posts. Screaming "ad hominem! Personal attack!" and cowering behind the apron of the "gracious host" doesn't change the fact that the racist troll has referred to interracial dating as "deviant behavior" or has posted literally hundreds of screeds questioning Obama's eligibility to be president.

The racist troll should go post on stormfront. He'd be welcome there. Nobody wants him here.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Is "almost off the air" anything like "almost pregnant"? ROTFLOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Glenn Beck is almost off the air. With no advertisers on his show other than News Corp affiliates, to continue to air his racist screeds would be an act of charity on the part of Fox News, and we all know how that kind of GOP filth feels about the relationship between business and charity.

As for Sarah Palin, nobody needs to marginalize her, she's doing a great job all by herself. Serially breaking speaking engagements means she won't get any more invitations to them, so the decline to obscurity can't be far off now.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

No, mikeinmidland, it is very clear to whom "GoldAndTanzanite" is referring (especially in conjunction with the same posts that he made as "chrisfox8" that got him banned) -- nonetheless, it is "ad hominem" directed at SOMEONE here, rather than dealing with the substance of an argument -- which is why it is a logical fallacy to begin with.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Peeps, please continue to demand that anyone who dares ask questions be banned. Especially glen beck and sarah Palin. I am still furious at her for exposing my death panels. now this Beck character is asking about my friends and czars and their qualifications. Let me just say they are equally as qualified as me am.

I be a famous writer remember.

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

For it to be a personal, or ad hominem attack, it would have to be directed at an individual. If you are taking that personally, you are self-identifying as both a racist and a troll. Which makes it definition (not defamation) of character.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

http://www.slate.com/id/2226518/

The Republican Death Machine: Who's really pulling the plug on Grandma?

Posted by: DDAWD | August 31, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Ad hominem personal attack: "racist troll".

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

More blog clog.

Between the racist troll trying to get everyone but BB banned for correctly perceiving him as a racist and this unfunny snowbama troll, my PgUp key is getting worn down to nothing.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Holder is investigating cheney? I had no idea. My instructions were for Nancy to continue lying to keep the heat off my failures.

I am going to need a hierarchy czar.

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Too bad, then, that pResident Obama is on "vacation" AGAIN at Camp David this week. LOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Holder will do his job, and hopefully congress will do theirs. Cheney has only the power of his thin, sneering lips, and congressional Republicans don't have much more than that.

==

Cheney has new "other priorities" now: to stay out of prison

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

It's about time for Obama to get personally engaged in getting healthcare passed. Time for a reconcliation style vote, since the Republicans are only in it to obstruct. His mild incrementalist approach to important changes is becoming infuriating.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Hey, where's the love?


""We have seen the same "leadership" from Obama on every single major bill coming out of congress since he was inaugurated. He has been a non-presence throughout the entire process, only stepping forward to take credit when his overwhelming majority in the House and Senate pass something.

This is not the mark of a leader; it is the mark of a Flim Flam Man who distracts the public with pretty speeches while others do all the work, and then patting himself on the back for doing such a great job.

Historically, political Flim Flam Men are able to pull the wool over the public's eyes for a while. But eventually, people get wise to their shtick and treat them with the contempt they deserve. So it may go with the health care bill. If congress can't pass reform, it will be like a curtain being pulled back to reveal the real Obama; a stumbling, bumbling politician, out of his depth who is presiding over the ruination of our economy and doesn't have a clue about how to fix it. ""

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

But, there is something more seriously wrong: How could a new president riding in on a wave of unprecedented promise and goodwill have forfeited his tenure and become a lame duck in six months? His poll ratings are in free fall. In generic balloting, the Republicans have now seized a five point advantage. This truly is unbelievable. What's going on?


Presidents we admire are aspirational peers, even those whose politics don't align exactly with our own: Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Harry Truman, Ike, Reagan.


But not this president. It's not so much that he's a phony, knows nothing about economics, is historically illiterate, and woefully small minded for the size of the task-- all contributory of course. It's that he's not one of us. And whatever he is, his profile is fuzzy and devoid of content, like a cardboard cutout made from delaminated corrugated paper. Moreover, he doesn't command our respect and is unable to appeal to our own common sense. His notions of right and wrong are repugnant and how things work just don't add up. They are not existential. His descriptions of the world we live in don't make sense and don't correspond with our experience.


In the meantime, while we've been struggling to take a measurement of this man, he's dissed just about every one of us--financiers, energy producers, banks, insurance executives, police officers, doctors, nurses, hospital administrators, post office workers, and anybody else who has a non-green job. Expect Obama to lament at his last press conference in 2012: "For those of you I offended, I apologize. For those of you who were not offended, you just didn't give me enough time; if only I'd had a second term, I could have offended you too."


I resemble these remarks.

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Cillizza:

Is repeatedly name-calling "racist piece of filth" worth of being banned (again)?

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

scrivener50:

I didn't apologize for anything, and I couldn't care less what you do. Another reason the WaPo software "holds" posts are more than three (3) links.

P.S. to broadwayjoe (I'm back home now, obviously):

"The Constitution requires every President to be a "natural born Citizen" not that he (or she) be actually born in the United States -- it is clear that foreign-born Americans at the time the Constitution was adopted were also eligible to become President, provided they met the age and residency requirements -- McCain is also a "natural born Citizen" no doubt about that. Besides, you really think the Roberts Supreme Court is going to PUNISH John McCain for being born while his U.S. Navy ADMIRAL father and mother were sationed abroad?!"

Posted by: JakeD | February 10, 2008 6:42 PM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/02/10/breaking_doyle_out_as_campaign.html

"politiciannc:

Have you seen any of my past posts to you on this subject? McCain is a "natural born Citizen" because [BOTH] his parents are citizens, regardless of where he was born."

Posted by: JakeD | February 14, 2008 3:04 PM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/02/14/romney_endorses_former_rival_m.html

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

We don't talk to jaked and we dont' talk about jaked.

I'm positing this as a command, but it's really an earnest request. When the nation is looking to this message board to fix the health care problem, we shouldn't be wasting time with racist swine!

==

Very disappointed to log in this morning and see that the troll is getting traction. Anytime you respond to this racist piece of filth the blog ends up being about the troll and not the topic. MAKE NO MISTAKE: this troll posts here to derail and disrupt conversation and we have long ago seen everything he has to say. It's just the same brainlessly repetitive low-IQ racist BS. Long form, next canard, anyone else, you didn't answer MY questions, voted for Alan Keyes, registered independent, monikers in quotes, etc. etc etc.

And oh, there are no "lurkers."

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 31, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

""It is too early to tell whether Obama is in over his head as the world's most powerful man. But his leadership profile is beginning to sag. We are living in complicated, perilous times, and Americans know it. They want decisive, clear direction from their president.

Right now, it's not there.""


I'm on vacation now but will consider returning to work in a few weeks. Until then, stand by.

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

"I believe he said Sept 1. See you tomorrow."

My mistake. He's out through labor day. Barring another event of enormous interest, we won't get a new Fix post until Tuesday.

Perhaps tomorrow Gov Sanford will announce he's resigning.

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 31, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

yeswiican writes
"There has been some good discussion on this board, but it can't last forever without new posts from CC to ground it on. I think I'll wait for his return."


I believe he said Sept 1. See you tomorrow.


.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 31, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DDAWD | August 31, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

While Cheney continues to spout his "Big Lie" about Iraq, the GOP keeps on with their "Big Lie" about healthcare reform.

Holder will do his job, and hopefully congress will do theirs. Cheney has only the power of his thin, sneering lips, and congressional Republicans don't have much more than that.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Anybody that works in Washington for more than a day knows the British government is not going to release a terrorist that killed American kids without getting the OK from the American government.

Let me repeat for the record: "I was on vacation." Nancy and Harry are running things. I am simply prepared to sign my name on things if they ever reach my desk. didn't you all get this from my resume?

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

My peeps, keep up the good work. Last weekend we successfully, with the help of a lap dog press, managed to wallpaper over the fact that Uncle Teddy has been wrong on about every major issue that ever came down the pike. Next we must continue to state calmly that the Republicans are simply not offering any advice and that we Democrats are desperate for ideas, but just can't find any. However, we will not cut the trial lawyers subsidy in health care and we wil not reduce state regulations to assure competition. The only mantra we chant this season is big government takeover. We are working on a more palatable way to say this so that at least our base will accept it.

Posted by: snowbama | August 31, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Remember, the propaganda technique called The Big Lie, so popular with Goebbels -- repitition is the key.

Posted by: drindl | August 31, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

yeswiican (last time I will ask):

Have you ever posted as "mikeinmidland"?

BTW: trep1, please do post more often, starting perhaps with an answer to my question as well: "Did you double check the laws in effect at the time re: an under aged mother passing her citizenship?"

Keep in mind also that I have not resorted to personal attacks again you, and I've answered BOTH of your later-asked questions to me:

1) What exactly I am supposed to be looking up? you can start here (and pay attention to the requirements for citizenship for births before November 14, 1986): http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html

2) Is that really your argument? No, my argument is that Barack Obama has not proven that he is Constitutionally eligible to become President of the United States -- that includes whether his mother was overseas at and before the time of his birth ..."

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Too many alien abductees posting here.

Where is Molly Ivins now that we need her?

Posted by: matthewjblack | August 31, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

A new book anyone interested in politics should read, by David Neiwert, who has been chronicaling the rise of the violent rightwing fringe for many years now:

"THE ELIMINATIONISTS - How hate talk radicalized the American Right."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0981576982?ie=UTF8&tag=hullabaloo05-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0981576982

Worth reading, to see how all of this ugliness came about. It wasn't always like this and we should remember that -- and realize we can take the country back from the crazies. We just need the will.

Posted by: drindl | August 31, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

drindl and bsimon1: my apologies. I didn't realize that the megalomania was combined with paranoia, but I just that's pretty common.

There has been some good discussion on this board, but it can't last forever without new posts from CC to ground it on. I think I'll wait for his return.

Posted by: yeswiican | August 31, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

NY REP. PETER KING WON'T RUN FOR U.S. SENATE

How much longer will this hard-right Joey Buttafucco of New York politics be able to hold onto his House seat?

http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 31, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

FAIL

Posted by: drindl | August 31, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

LOL.

Posted by: drindl | August 31, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD:

"Healthcare" is not the thread topic.

bsimon1:

I have stated, repeatedly, that I will "drop it" just as soon as those original vital records are released. That would satisfy me, at least.

Mr. Cillizza:

Are "crackpots" and "racist swine" personal attacks, or not?

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

yeswiican:

Because i want to see the actual documents
Have you ever posted as "mikeinmidland"?

Lurkers:

If you really didn't catch the ad hominem personal attacks, keep in mind that Franz Kafka's famous exclamation "Erkannt!" means "I found him!" as if I am up to something nefarious. In addition "he can claim to be arguing in good faith, but ... he's not interested in reasonable discussion or disagreement", "you are not to be taken seriously on this issue", "whether it is because of racism or just a deep hatred of Democrats" all ignore that I would be objecting to an Ayrian Governator becoming President as well. Lastly, "disengenousness" is basically calling me a liar, just using more syllables. As I have stated, I will never resort to such name-calling, even if I think someone is lying here,, simply because it's just as easy to disprove the lie and let you readers decide.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Reminder.

We don't talk to jaked and we dont' talk about jaked.

I'm positing this as a command, but it's really an earnest request. When the nation is looking to this message board to fix the health care problem, we shouldn't be wasting time with racist swine!

Posted by: DDAWD | August 31, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

"he will never drop it"

Which is also why the President doesn't bother to 'just release the records'. He knows it won't make a difference anyway, so its not worth his time. Instead he sets an example we should all follow - and ignores the crackpots who continue to imagine increasingly fantastic explanations to justify their faith-based beliefs while ignoring the mounting pile of facts that contradict.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 31, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

While former Sen Dole's recommendations are reasonable and rational, what he ignores is his party's apparent desire to use health care reform to undermine the President politically. That desire seems to outweigh any interest in actual reform. So while I agree that the President needs to revise his tactics in getting health care reform passed, it is not clear that the GOP are ready to work on passing reform in good faith.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 31, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

he will never drop it, yeswiican -- he's a cultist. don't waste your time with nuts who have nothing else to do with their lives but obsess over their racist conspiracy theories.

Posted by: drindl | August 31, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Unfortunately the current gop is rife with nutbags like this. The political culture in this country has become malevolent and completely loony.

We will never be able to accomplish anything until Republican leaders begin to once again condemn this kind of insanity instead of encouraging it:

"Chris Broughton, the man who brought an AR-15 rifle and a handgun to an Arizona Obama rally earlier this month, says he "concurs" with his fundamentalist pastor's prayer for President Obama "to die and go to hell."

And in an interview with a local TV station, pastor Steven Anderson himself elaborated on his statement to TPMmuckraker that he would prefer Obama to die of natural causes so "he's not some martyr."

"I don't want him to be a martyr, we don't need another holiday. I'd like to see him die, like Ted Kennedy, of brain cancer," Anderson now says.

In an interview with ABC 15 outside the storefront Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Broughton said of Anderson's controversial August 16 "Why I Hate Barack Obama" sermon: "I concur, I think we'd be better off if God would send [Obama] where he's going now instead of later. [Obama] is destroying our country."

And when a reporter followed up with, "you're not advocating violence against the president?" Broughton, who has previously said his weapons are for defense, says "I'm not going to answer that question directly."

"I don't care how God does it, I'm not going into further detail than that," Broughton says. "It would be better now than later."

Posted by: drindl | August 31, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

JakeD: in addition to the very good point made below about Clinton, McCain, and others, why do YOU not accept the Health Director's statement and just DROP it already?

Posted by: yeswiican | August 31, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

From mark_in_austin's Wiki link (below):

On July 28, 2009, Hawaii Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino issued a statement saying, "I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen,".

Why doesn't Obama request the release of said "original vital records"?

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

I have to agree with dawg about this.

Krugman does a good piece today about how much things have changed in DC today since the time of Nixon's healthcare plan [and since Dole's time too, for that matter] in that the R party was far more moderate than it is now, and there are now none of them willing to risk the wrath of far-rightwing behemoths like Limbaugh [who simply did not have the same of power then].

So there is the issue of the rise of the far right and the control a relatively small but extremely vocal adnd powerful fringe group exerts over the party as a whole, and then there is also the meteoric rise in weatlh, power and influence of corporations--which globalization contributed significantly to:

"But there’s another reason health care reform is much harder now than it would have been under Nixon: the vast expansion of corporate influence.

We tend to think of the way things are now, with a huge army of lobbyists permanently camped in the corridors of power, with corporations prepared to unleash misleading ads and organize fake grass-roots protests against any legislation that threatens their bottom line, as the way it always was. But our corporate-cash-dominated system is a relatively recent creation, dating mainly from the late 1970s.

And now that this system exists, reform of any kind has become extremely difficult. That’s especially true for health care, where growing spending has made the vested interests far more powerful than they were in Nixon’s day. The health insurance industry, in particular, saw its premiums go from 1.5 percent of G.D.P. in 1970 to 5.5 percent in 2007, so that a once minor player has become a political behemoth, one that is currently spending $1.4 million a day lobbying Congress."

The republican leadership has announced quite publicly that their only plan is obstruction. So where does that leave any form of bipartiship? How do you negotiate with people who only want you to fail?

Posted by: drindl | August 31, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Indeed, you cannot engage with Jaked on the birther stuff. For a year now we have been talking sense to him, showing him web pages and explaining law. For over a year we have had the firm opinion of the Governor of Hawaii that this controversy is a dishonest campaign. The State's AG has weighed in. the birthers have settled on a self-defined proof and no one can give it to them.

Oh well, the rest of us can chose to move on -- and wouldn't we all be happier ignoring the birthers' false issue? They won't accept Obama as President no matter what.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | August 31, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

JakeD @ 9:52 a.m.

Do you really think anyone with a brain is buying your apology for covert government censorship of political speech?

How interesting that YOUR posts never seem to elicit the "held for blog owner" (apparently) "spoofed page" when you are the chief violator in terms of repetitious postings.

Or is that because your mission has official "cover"?


http://nowpublic.com/world/govt-fusion-center-spying-pretext-harass-and-censor

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 31, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

I agree, DDAWD. Paradoxically, I can see a scenario in which a fresh, clean bill written by the administration could get more Republican votes than the mess they've been cooking up in congress.

To wit: A shorter, more understandable bill, clearly supported by the President in every regard, is a political milestone. If it has broader public support, some Republicans may see the need to vote for it, lest they be branded as obstructionist or "in the pocket of the insurance industry." Compared to fighting with the liberals in congress.

Posted by: yeswiican | August 31, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I wonder if Obama's methodology comes about as a result of Obama being an old school Constitution guy where the job of the President is to sign and administer laws, but not write them. I liked Bob Dole's example of how Reagan gave him a bill and told him how to go about negotiating it and what were expendable and what wasn't. That has always been my big question. What do the Democrats find absolutely essential? What are the deal breakers? What can they give away? There might not be one single bill, but it would be helpful to know what the Democrats are aiming for. Even with Obama himself, I don't know what he wants and what is negotiable. Perhaps this is by design. Obama is much smarter than I am and he's in the heat of the battle, so I guess he knows what he's doing, but I don't really see how his standing to the side helps. He is the most powerful weapon in enacting any type of policy. Not sure why he is shelved now.

I do disagree with Dole and many others on the need for bipartisanship. To me, bipartisanship is only desirable if without it, no bill gets passed. If you can pass a bill without Republican support (presumably a better one) then why not? I doubt this would face much public backlash since I doubt the average American cares about how chummy the guys in DC are with each other. If they have a good bill, that's all that matters. Realistically, to even get ten Republican Senators to go along with any plan is a huge stretch. Will having five Republicans count as "bipartisan"? What about even ten? Either of those numbers can be spun to look pretty unilateral. With all the challenges, I don't think garnering widespread Republican support is a realistic goal. They have far more to gain by blocking any reform whatsoever.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 31, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse


Dole and the other commentators are going to take credit when the President does something along these lines. It was clear at the end of July that things weren't going to get done.

You can call it cheerleading to hold town halls and press conferences while congress is on vacation, but we know nothing about what Obama and staff have been preparing in the interim.

He already gave the "gang of six" until Sept. 15 to come up with a bill. If they don't have something reasonable, the cry and call for Obama to lead will only increase.

And *then* it will be time for the Obama plan, when everyone is asking for it, not months ago when it would have been perceived as presumptuous.

Dole was a good legislator. He's also joined at the hip with the medical industry. So while his advice isn't bad, I wouldn't call it unbiased.

Posted by: yeswiican | August 31, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

DDAWD:

In regard to the process, EJ Dionne has a similar take in today's WaPo. The chorus for BHO's direct involvement becomes louder every day. It will be interesting to see if he heeds the call or keeps on the relatively hands-off path he has chosen to take.

Posted by: mnteng | August 31, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

ddawd, I completely agreed with Dole on how this should have been done politically and how to revive it now.
The correct lesson from HRC having demanded all or nothing from Congress was not to let committees take the lead, but for the Prez to lead, while being flexible.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | August 31, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

priley8104: I have no problem with Crist choosing his staff member to keep the seat warm for him. It is within the law.

However, in comparing this to Biden's replacement, that appointee was at least from the staff of a US Senator. He is very familiar with the workings of the Senate. As such, I would suggest that he is more qualified to do the job of US Senator than the staff member of a Governor.

Regarding the situation in Massachusetts, again, as long as the Governor follows the law, if anyone is appointed to serve before the special election, any objection to such appointment (by the voters of Mass.) should be voiced to the Governor, and objections to the law to the legislature.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

"trep -- do chime in more - you're interesting."

Ditto. Along with yeswiican. Very good new posters.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 31, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/28/AR2009082802603.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Did anyone read Bob Dole's op-ed on how Obama should handle health care reform? Any thoughts? I disagree with parts of it, but I probably agree with more than I disagree. It's less about the policy and more about the politics of the debate.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 31, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

trep -- do chime in more - you're interesting.

i see many of you have continued to waste your precious time on the troll. don't bother.

i see from this morning's news, that sure enough, the madman cheney wanted to attack iran and spread nuclear waste arond the globe, in addiion to starting WW3. thank god he's out of power -- a close call.

Now if only the MSM would stop giving him a soapbox for his crazy borderline-seditious rantings.

Posted by: drindl | August 31, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Back on topic, if anyone is critical about Crist's instant appointment keeping his future Senate seat warm, were you also critical of Joe Biden requesting a similar seat-warmer for his son?

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton and John McCain (and their campaign staffs) are not fools, nor are Chief Justice John Roberts and Republican Governor Linda Lingle of Hawaii.

I have little regard for theories which require (in addition to their stated claims) that all of these persons were duped and/or involved in a conspiracy which would be against their own interests.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 31, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

mark_in_austin:

I've repeatedly stated IF he was born in Hawaii, then he is legitimately President of the United States.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

trip1 - For your reading enjoyment, I post a wiki article that is accessible, of course, but which also cites the correct statutes and cases to give an understanding of the fluid nature of "natural born" as it relates to the Prez and VP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States

The Senate passed a resolution for McC b/c it was a conceded fact that he was not born in an American territory. That resolution would probably have been dispositive of litigation b/c the lower courts are deferential to Congress and the Supremes, in this area, have given Congress a wide berth. No such resolution was necessary for the candidate born in HI, of course.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | August 31, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

scrivener50:

WaPo software also "holds" posts that are too long and/or duplicative -- no "black helicopter" government conspiracy -- the fact that you haven't been picked up yet is proof enough for me. So, keep up the posts. If they suddenly stop, then we will know you were right ...

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

No, my argument is that Barack Obama has not proven that he is Constitutionally eligible to become President of the United States -- that includes whether his mother was overseas at and before the time of his birth -- you have been using ad hominem personal attacks (which I will never level against you) but, more importantly, refusing to answer my question to you even though I have now answered every question of yours. If you will not answer my question, I will no longer answer yours. Have a nice week.

Posted by: JakeD | August 31, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

'FIX' POST ASKING CONGRESS TO PROBE ROOT CAUSE OF 'POLITICAL BRAIN DISORDER' ELICITS 'HELD FOR BLOG OWNER' MESSAGE

• Another case of government operatives using warrantless surveillance to harass and censor?

My attempted post asking Congress to investigate what seems like a disproportionate number of brain disorders among members of Congress and other high-profile opinion leaders has elicited a "held for blog owner" message...

...despite the fact that Washington Post does not "hold" comments unless its software detects foul language.

I believe this is yet more evidence that political speech is being CENSORED or subject to prior restraint by government operatives who are using real-time warrantless surveillance technology as a pretext to harass and censor American citizens.

Here are the links to the stories that I referenced in my apparently censored posts. I encourage 'Fix' readers to read these articles.

nowpublic.com/world/zap-have-you-been-targeted-directed-energy-weapon-victims-organized-gang-stalking-say-its-happening-usa

http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america

If this post does not go through, I will attempt to post the original comment on the ACLU Freedom Blog under the "free speech" category, where I have been memorializing instances of apparent government censorship and prior restraint... although recently, some of my attempted posts have failed to stay up on that blog site.

When will Congress and Team Obama wake up and smell the police state that is making a mockery of the Constitution and the rule of law?

http://blog.aclu.org/2009/01/26/internet-filters-voluntary-ok-not-government-mandate

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 31, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Is that really your argument? Ann Duhnam was a legal adult at the time of President Obama's birth. The only way your website is even remotely applicable would be if she a had spent a significant time aborad during the 5 years after she turned 14. No one I am aware of is making that argument. You are assuming what you claim to be proving.

BTW, I have not called you any names. I have charaterized your line of reasoning as disingenuous and your lastest attempt to make your case proves my point.

Posted by: trep1 | August 31, 2009 7:13 AM | Report abuse

trep1:

I am assuming that she was legally married -- at the time "under age" was 19, depending on how long she had been living in the actual United States - you can start here (and pay attention to the requirements for citizenship for births before November 14, 1986):

http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html

Or, you can continue with the name-calling and refusing to answer my questions.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 11:16 PM | Report abuse

The Blade is the domestic prince: washing floors and making gaspacho! When I'm out of town Mr. Meyers goes to the pub to double down on beer and hangin'.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | August 30, 2009 9:10 PM | Report abuse

The Fix'll love it! Deeds and Corzine falling steadily behind is dull. Gotta remember that we're at the tracks and the Fix likes a good race.

Here's a slightly entertaining bit I hadn't considered previously. Let us assume that a child with an American parent was born abroad, just as a thought exercise. Clearly, one can't just show up at the airport with an undocumented child and expect entry to the U.S. In order for that child to be admitted to the U.S., the parent would have to notify the nearest American consular office and obtain the appropriate documentation. This would be the case for Mrs. Blade and, yes, we do have that documentation.

I patiently await the Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America for Mr. Obama. I'll even take the short form. :-)

Well, I've got some gazpacho to make. Toodles, all.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 30, 2009 8:54 PM | Report abuse

"...my oath to protect the United States Constitution against ALL enemies foreign and domestic." Jaked

Well, if Jake is covering that I guess I'll go watch "You Can't Take It With You" on TCM... I love me some 1930s populism.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | August 30, 2009 8:52 PM | Report abuse

She was over 18 when she gave birth, so she was not underage. There is also the fact that she was legally married, but I suppose that really does not matter to you. What exactly I am supposed to be looking up?

Posted by: trep1 | August 30, 2009 8:44 PM | Report abuse

"Next week the polls will show that Corzine and Deeds are pulling ahead in their governor races."

Fix won't like that a bit. :) No more GOP comeback posts.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

The "psychology" behind my objection is my oath to protect the United States Constitution against ALL enemies foreign and domestic. If you now want to lump that into slurs of "disengenuous" and "racist swine" be my guest.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade:

The short form certification of live birth we've all seen was not "faked" -- no one on this thread has said it was -- it could have been produced from an out-of-State birth registration in Honolulu. At least get your facts straight.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 7:06 PM | Report abuse

trep1:

Did you double check the laws in effect at the time re: an under aged mother passing her citizenship?

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

I was busy clearing out the living room today in order to completely wash the floor. Mrs. Blade, Primo and Secondo are due back on Wednesday!

The whole birth certificate issue just isn't that interesting and I haven't seen anything in today's discussion that has changed my mind or that of anyone else's. The only point of mild interest to me is the psychology behind the movement and I'll admit that's not enough to hold my interest for long. Either an official government document was faked or it wasn't. If it was, then any supposed long form certificate will be faked as well. Noone is going to convince anyone else, not until we see an unusual entry in the register of Kenyatta National Hospital*.

Assume GOP identification of about 30-35%. 26% think he's the Nyanzan** candidate. 26% of 35% is about 10%, the fraction of Americans who believe in something whacky in any given poll.

My personal guess. The new poster is a big iPod fan. 8104 is a reference to August 10, 2004, the date that the iTunes store hit 1 million songs.

BB

*A Nairobi hospital
**A Kenyan province

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 30, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Next week the polls will show that Corzine and Deeds are pulling ahead in their governor races.

The anti-Christie ads up here are reminding everyone who CC's daddy is (Bush/Cheney) and we're all remembering who put this country in the ditch. McDonnell's 15 point action plan for a conservative Christian government has hit the papers and it looks like the Taliban.

All I need is for someone to pay a little attention to Pat Toomey and we'll have an East Coast Trifecta for the Democrats. I know Pat's boring, but Club for Growth is fascinating, and he's their poster child.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | August 30, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

drindl, It's all good. I simply wanted to make a point about one person's disingenuousness. He can claim to be arguing in good faith, but I have seen enough the last couple of weeks to be convinced that he's not interested in reasonable discussion or disagreement. Hence the choce of Kafka's "Erkannt." I will continue to read this blog and chime in occasionally if I think I have something to contribute. But I do not intend to waste my time on certain ventures. Enjoy what's left of the weekend.

Posted by: trep1 | August 30, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

The other PEOPLE will take it back eventually (unless you really think no Democrats will ever lose another election).

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

The PEOPLE already took the country back from the slimy politicians who destroyed it. That's why democrats are in power.

Posted by: drindl | August 30, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

jeezus, we've got a new brain surgeon -- yet another rabid rightwing moron. Wonder what kind of hideous underground mad science lab they grown these monsters in? Are they trying to come up with a human/sea sponge hybrid?

Posted by: drindl | August 30, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

I have to ask. Are there really 8,103 other Priley's?

As for Beck, he could have 300 million viewers. It doesn't matter if he doesn't have sponsors. TV programs exist to bring attention to the ads, except on pay TV. He knows that and that's why he's been going off the deep end on the air, see Beck's "oligarchy" meltdown.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

I am a registered member of the American Independent Party. If the GOP nominates a pro-choice moderate, I say a pox on both houses of the major parties.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

This is the kind of thing that makes the people of this country HATE politicians. It is similar to what VP Joe Biden did with his vacated seat. He got the Democrat Governor to appoint his former Chief of Staff to babysit the seat until his son, Beau, gets out of the Military so he can run and win. Senator Kennedy (RIP) also pulled a slimy trick to undo the law that he had changed just a few short years ago. Now he wants it changed BACK to what it was before because there is now a Democrat in the Governor's office. Slimy, manipulative politics. This is why the PEOPLE are fed up and will start term limiting all these parasites, starting in 2010! They are taking their country back and reminding these 2-bit politicians just who they are supposed to be working for.

Posted by: priley8104 | August 30, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse


Beck can have 20 million viewers. It won't matter. If he has no sponsors he has no show. The TV programs exist only to get you to watch the ads.

Posted by: broadwayjoe
-----------------------------------------------
Sponsers want a venue where they have access to the most viewer's. For every sponsor who drops Glenn Beck, they do NOT drop Fox News. The Ads are just transferred to a different show with tons of viewers like Oreilly or Hannity Or Greta. I counted 19 sponsors on the Glenn Beck show last week. He's on fire. So, Thank You, DailyKosTards! All you have done is hurt Liberal Talk Shows because many sponsors will no longer advertise with ANY of them, from EITHER side. Since PMSNBC is hanging on by a bare thread, they will soon be flushed down the drain completely. They will thank you, I am sure.

Posted by: priley8104 | August 30, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

priley8104 (darn Spellchecker ; )

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

thank you, prileu8104.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/30/774271/-Why-arent-more-people-openly-ridiculing-Fox-News
______________

There really is a need for major pushback against this foolishness by the MSM, which includes the Post, which includes Fix.

Posted by: broadwayjoe
-----------------------------------------------

About half of the items on your list of grievances are bold faced LIES, but seeing who your source is, the DailyKosTards, it is expected. I would like to know when the MSM are going to start questioning the Messiah on just why he has so many RADICALS as his personal advisors? Why so many Communists/Marxist/Socialists who hate Capitalism and admire the Dictator, Hugo Chavez as Mark Lloyd, the "Diversity Czar" obviously does? I guess Journalism is truly dead in this country but there are a whole new generation of Patriots who are going to make sure this country does NOT go down the path this President wants to take it. Toward Socialism and a blatant redistribution of wealth. It ain't gonna happen!

Posted by: priley8104 | August 30, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

@dog:

The good thing is there are signs the so-called MSM is starting to push back on these bogus racist proxies: teabaggers, birthers, Town Hall terro-, er, protesters. Even NBC's David Gregory, who speaks out about nothing, had a nice segment on that armed mental with the McVeigh/Jefferson quote on his T-shirt who showed up at a BHO event. He was not there to debate the public option.

Riddle me this, dog: Same facts. What would have happened to that sociopath in the Bush Administration? Would he have been allowed to stand there fully armed during the entire event and then (Ready for my close-up, Mr. DeMille) do the talk show rounds. I don't think so, IMO. Say what you want about W, his people would have "handled" that guy. I can't believe the First Lady was too pleased at how that was addressed.

When BHO returns from vacation, I think you will see health care pushed through by majority vote (enough with the gang of 6 or 7 or any gang activity and negotiating with folks who have already said they'll vote against any bill).

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

If you go existential on the whole John Birther nonsense you can find it all entertaining. Not excepting the voice of the people after their beloved leader Bush was selected will stand as the asterisk. Hopefully it will continue to be a pivot for the entire 8 years... periodically we can just tell them nothing, in between ignoring them.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 30, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

@no troll in particular: "A snipe hunt, a form of wild-goose chase that is also known as a fool's errand, is a type of practical joke that involves experienced people making fun of newcomers by giving them an impossible or imaginary task."

Like finding BHO's "long-form certificate"? You know, the one the State of Hawaii has said publicly does not exist.

Rumor has it the LFC is somewhere near 110th street in NYC. Others say it's in Watts. Pls. visit both places soon. Good luck. :-)

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Still waiting for you to stop wasting your precious time -- DDAWD is going to be really pissed -- nonetheless, as I said, I will "cut and paste" when I get home.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

JD, still waiting for you to paste in any prior post to ANY blog in which you personally challenged the eligibility of the Panama-born McCain to be president.

Thanks, JD.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

trep -- go back to ignoring trolls. They contribute nothing -- they are vampires, zombies. All they do is waste your precious time.

Posted by: drindl | August 30, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

trep1:

You need to double-check the law in effect at the time re: an under-age mother passing her citizenship.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Barack Obama is NOT an American. Posted by: JakeD | August 25, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

To quote Kafka: "Erkannt!"

JakeD, this proves, at least to me, that you are not to be taken seriously on this issue. Long form brith certificate and other such nonsense aside, the fact that President Obama's mother was an American citizen makes him a citizen, even if he was born on Mars. You are simply not interested in recognizing President Obama as a legitimate president. Whether it is because of racism or just a deep hatred of Democrats, I do not know. But you are going to have to try something else if you want the "lurkers" of the board to take you seriously.


Posted by: trep1 | August 30, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

I think we all need to start asking Bob McDonnell for proof that he isn't proposing Birth Panels to decide who can use contraception...

Posted by: drindl | August 30, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Then STOP wasting your time.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

No prob, JD. I will.

Tim Walker, a respected mainstream journalist, said, "Let's call the birthers what they really are: Racists."

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Please, broadwayjoe, take Tim (and DDAWD's) advice.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

In the mainstream media, few have summed up the true agenda of the birth-of-a-nation-ers better than Tim Walker of the Minneapolis Star Tribune. An excerpt:
_______________

"Let's call the birthers what they really are: Racists
These people are in denial about a changing America, and they shouldn't be encouraged."

By TIM WALKER

August 9, 2009 - 10:12 AM

A copy of Barack Obama's birth certificate, supplied by the Obama campaign during the 2008 presidential race.

Barack Obama was born in Kenya. His Hawaii birth certificate was forged. Fake birth announcements were planted in Hawaii newspapers in 1961.

Take your pick of these crackpot ideas spread by the so-called birthers. All are false and have been debunked again and again by credible evidence.

But because the birthers insist on spreading their vile falsehoods, they continue to generate media attention.

Trouble is, the mainstream news reports of the birthers have failed to answer a key question in the story: Why?

Why do birthers, despite clear and convincing evidence to the contrary, still insist that Obama is not eligible to be president?

* * * * * *

But the simple truth is that many birthers are simply racist. They keep pushing their fictions because they cannot accept the fact that there is a black family living in the White House."

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentary/52691222.html?elr=KArksc8P:Pc:U0ckkD:aEyKUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr

Tim, I will now take your advice and not encourage the birthers any more by wasting time trying to prove water is wet.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

IRAQ-STYLE HIGH-TECH 'PSY OPS' TORTURE -- COMING TO A DIGITAL TV NEAR YOU?

http://nowpublic.com/world/now-theyve-weaponized-digital-tv-or-so-it-seems

OR (if link corrupted by psy ops):

http://NowPublic.com/scrivener RE: "Now They've Weaponized Digital TV -- Or So It Seems."

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 30, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Lurkers:

Get off the sidelines. Register and start posting. Burn the strawman arguments.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

BHO has said that, but for Fox News, which is in effect a free 24/7 attack ad against him, his polls woujld be ten points higher. In that connection, DailyKos reports on the long list of recent fake controversies Fox News has created.
___________

"Why aren't more people openly ridiculing Fox News?
by wikoogle
Sun Aug 30, 2009 at 12:24:45 AM PDT
Here are the idiotic conspiracy theories promoted by Fox "News" just this past month...

The Healthcare bill contains Death Panels
Obama is a Fascist
The Annual Census is being used for nefarious purposes
Obama is setting up FEMA Concentration Camps
Obama is a racist and hates white people
The Healthcare Bill covers illegal immigrants
Obama is a kenyan and the Hawaiian birth certificate and newspaper annoucements from 1961 are all part of a grand liberal conspiracy.
Climate Change is a myth made up by liberals and scientists
The Service Act is Obama's plan to invoke a military state
Obama is going to shut down the internet
Osama Bin Laden Needs to Attack the US again to wake it up
Every Obama cabinet position counts as a czar, and czars are evil
The economy was great under bush and it was Obama that wrecked it
Obama is on the verge of destroying the entire US within the 6 months

If just the idea that any network, even Fox "News" presents such viewpoints as credible seems unbelievable, it should be. But believe me it's true. All of these viewpoints were expressed by Fox News correspondents on primetime shows watched by millions, often repeatedly."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/30/774271/-Why-arent-more-people-openly-ridiculing-Fox-News
______________

There really is a need for major pushback against this foolishness by the MSM, which includes the Post, which includes Fix.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

I guess FairlingtonBlade has not checked in. He knows that my objection is not based on racism (see posts below).

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 10:49 AM
________________

Guess not. :-)

Really look forward to reading any prior post in which you challenged the Panama-born McCain's eligibility.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Name-calling and telling me to go back to "stormfront" is hardly civil debate either.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Amazing, the hypocrisy of these people.. pawlenty is nothing but a posturing liar.

"In an interview yesterday with Bloomberg, Gov. Tim Pawlenty (R-MN) gave a blistering speech attacking President Obama, slamming the the stimulus and efforts to reform health care. Pawlenty declared it would be “ludicrous” to think that the Recovery Act is “what pivoted” the economy back to stability. He also said any “fair critique” of Democratic health care legislation includes the argument that “death panels” would make life-or-death treatment decisions.

But as Bloomberg later reported, Pawlenty’s criticisms of the stimulus are at odds with both economists and the statements of Pawlenty’s own economic development director, Dan McElroy. McElroy, Pawlenty’s “point man on jobs and economic development,” leads the Department of Employment and Economic Development. He recently went on a 10 city road show titled “Advancing Economic Prosperity” touting the benefits of the stimulus. Speaking about the positive effects of the stimulus, McElroy said:

“Our goal was to put this money to work as quickly as possible. Communities and job-seekers throughout Minnesota are seeing tangible results from this funding.“

A longtime adviser to the governor, Pawlenty has praised McElroy as, “one of the smartest, most hard-working change-oriented leaders that has come to state government in modern history.” And McElroy isn’t the only Pawlenty official heaping praise upon the stimulus. Pawlenty’s top financial advisor, Tom Hanson, told Minnesota legislators that stimulus funds used to plug the state’s massive budget shortfall have made “all of our lives just a little bit easier.” He added, “The federal money will give us the opportunity to accept federal assistance and push it out into our state, to help as many people as possible.”

Posted by: drindl | August 30, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the link, margaret.

"He described as "illogical" a 1972 Supreme Court decision legalizing the use of contraception by unmarried couples."

Nice. He beleives gov't should be so big it spies on everyone to make sure they don't use contraceptives. Could be very expensive to VA taxpayers to put that kind of intrusive program in place, wouldn't you think?

And McDonnel is an alumna of Christian Broadcasting University. Now there's some impressive credentials.

Posted by: drindl | August 30, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

When I get back home, I will "cut and paste". In the meantime, anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 10:34 AM
__________
What? You are on the computer right now. What does getting back home have to do with it? Just paste in any prior post to ANY blog in which you personally challenged the eligibility of the Panama-born McCain to be president.

LOL. TOTALLY Busted.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

When I get back home, I will "cut and paste". In the meantime, anyone else?

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Me: "Okay, JD, I'll play along, a little. McCain was born outside the US, in Panama. Please paste in any prior post to any blog in which you challenged McCain's right to be U.S. President. If you didn't, then you're kinda exposed, that is, if you weren't already, which you were."
________________________

From JD: "I can't "cut and paste" from this platform."
____________________________

No kidding. LOL. TOTALLY exposed. TOTALLY busted.

JD, take it to stormfront or teamsarah.org.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

I can't "cut and paste" from this platform. I have pointed out that maybe McCain didn't push this issue because he was also born outside the U.S. Nonetheless, it is not "similar" because McCain's parents were both citizens. If anyone else wants to debate that, in a civil manner, please let me know.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

The foolish, racist motivation of the "birthers" is revealed by the fact that they never once challenged the eligibility of the Panama-born McCain to be President. Regardless of where you come out on the issue (which has never been decided by our courts), McCain's qualifications did pose a legitimate legal question as discussed in a New York Times article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Okay, JD, I'll play along, a little. McCain was born outside the US, in Panama. Please paste in any prior post to any blog in which you challenged McCain's right to be U.S. President. If you didn't, then you're kinda exposed, that is, if you weren't already, which you were.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

P.S. I seem to recall quite a few liberals who denied GWB was legitimately elected as well. Not saying that two wrongs make a right, but there's always karma ; )

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

If the shoe fits...

"A group of dull-minded racists, known as "birthers," are committed to the silly notion that President Obama was born in Kenya, therefore constitutionally ineligible to hold the highest office in the land.

President Barack Obama was born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii, and the right wing lunatics that insist that he was born in Kenya are ignoring one incontrovertible fact that proves that Mr. Obama is an American citizen.

The birth announcement was published in both of Honolulu's daily newspapers.

The birth announcement of Barack H. Obama was published in both the Honolulu Advertiser and the Star Bulletin on August 13, 1961. End of conspiracy theory."

http://open.salon.com/blog/rogerf1953/2009/07/21/racist_birthers_refuse_to_accept_a_black_president

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade:

I think I've explained that I would be objecting to a REPUBLICAN under similiar circumstances -- you've said you don't believe my objection is racism -- so, what don't you understand? The Constitution is very clear on this point.

Posted by: JakeD | August 30, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

I agree, MM. McDonnell had been able to avoid mention of his long history of ultraconservative stances because he faces a weak, unknown-in-No. Va. candidate. But no more. The Post did what Deeds hasn't done so far: tell people what McDonnell believes in, pretty scary stuff. Deeds needs to step his game up, though. I have yet to even hear Deeds's voice, much less one of his speeches.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 30, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/29/AR2009082902434.html?hpid=topnews

This was a morning eye opener, wasn't it? I think we're going to see a sudden shift in voter preference to Deeds in the Virginia Governor's race.

I love that McDonnell pointed people to the thesis himself, which he smilingly described as being about "welfare policy." I think this indicates how out of touch he is. The pdf of his paper is really alarming, and the fact that he has been actively legislating his oppressive, out-of-date and foolish agenda should make evryone in a state with cartel of Christian legislators ahould look at their activities. They like to present them as common sense and moral, but they really just lovingly serve an out-dated status quo that disenfrnachises and, in McDonnell's case, criminalizes many of the behaviors and personal freedoms Americans have enjoyed for a long time. He wants to punish people who have homosexual relations. He thinks the father governs the family. Women working undermines the family. He's against abortion for any reason and has legislated to limit its availablity. Of course he thinks schools should be physically punishing children, too. This is quite a power pyramid of oppression he describes.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | August 30, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

BB--- also wanted to point out to you that the *repitition* of these birther claims and the like is an essential component of propagandist technique. You will notice, of course, how the trolls on these boards [as well as most others] repeat the same lies over and over. Like this one:

"If you repeat something over and over, no matter how outrageous it may be, people will come to believe there's some truth in it. [Goebbels called this The Big Lie-- he was a master] A good example of this is the claim that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. No evidence has been found suggesting collaboration between Iraq and the Al Qaeda network, yet Bush administration officials have repeatedly mentioned the two in tandem.

As a result, a recent opinion survey by the Council on Foreign Relations shows that more than 40 percent of the American people believe that some or all of the attackers on 9/11 were Iraqi nationals, when in fact none were."

Here is an excellent guide to propaganda techniques -- how to recognize and fight them. I highly recommend it:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Propaganda_techniques

I might also add that a great many people still don't know that the majority of the 9/11 attackers were Saudi and then there was quite a bit of evidence to suggest that Saudi princes bankrolled it -- but we need the oil, don't we, so it never got mentioned in the press very much.

Posted by: drindl | August 30, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Paul, here's a good piece about the birthers and the naziites and so forth and reasons why.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090914/williams

Posted by: drindl | August 30, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

"MM's "drift" was that I am not technically an @sshole, even though you all are calling me such.
Posted by: JakeD "


Bingo! If we ALL are, and we ARE, then we are probably just calling a spade a spade. Comprehende?

Posted by: drindl | August 30, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

"It is also interesting that conservatives deny the legitimacy of the last three Democratic presdients (Carter only because of Nixon, Clinton only because of Perot, Obama only because of some grand conspiracy)."

Carter and Clinton were different. Those theories credited the environment with their victories, but never questioned the legal basis of being president. With Obama, they are saying that he's not eligible to be prez. We didn't see this with the two previous white Democrats.

(Incidentally, there are those who credit Obama's victory 100% on the Lehman Bros crash. That's a better parallel to the Clinton and Carter victories.)

Posted by: DDAWD | August 30, 2009 2:04 AM | Report abuse

Thanks, I was out at dinner and could not look up the full quote.

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Before I forget, the full quotation is a *foolish* consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. Ralph Waldo Emerson. R.I.P.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 29, 2009 10:42 PM | Report abuse

As I've stated, I don't find the question of whether or not President Obama was born in Hawaii interesting. So, I don't diginify ludicrous assertions, Why there are those who deny that fact, now that's interesting. It is also interesting that conservatives deny the legitimacy of the last three Democratic presdients (Carter only because of Nixon, Clinton only because of Perot, Obama only because of some grand conspiracy).

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 29, 2009 10:40 PM | Report abuse

As long as we agree that I am not technically one. That being said:

"Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds."

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 10:24 PM | Report abuse

"fro" = "from" (darn Spellchecker ; )

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 10:18 PM | Report abuse

Jake, I was making fun of your prissy insistance about water not technically being wet. It's a silly point to stand on.
As a parallel, I was saying that a human being is not simply his rectal opening -- even if it is generally felt by those around him that he is *mostly* a rectal opening. If you can see an up side to that, then your thinking about water and rectal openings is consistent, if nothing else.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | August 29, 2009 10:17 PM | Report abuse

Not the "whole" planet. For instance, noted liberal Josh Marshall fro
Talking Points Memo has been following Rasmussen for several cycles now and had good things to say about their noting trends.

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

It seems the whole planet is suspicious of Rasmussen "polling." Daily Kos reports the skepticism is well founded. They say Rasmussen skews the polls using loaded questions to produce rightward bent results.

""Rasmussen Caught With Their Thumb On The Scale"
by Steve Singiser

Sat Aug 29, 2009 at 05:30:04 PM PDT

During this year, the nightly polling and political wrap-up has always been rife with comments from Kossacks skeptical of any polling done by Rasmussen Reports.

Over the years, RR has been one of the most prolific pollsters in the game, and despite the fact that it is an open secret that founder Scott Rasmussen's political proclivities are well to the right of center, their numbers on campaigns have been on the fairway more often than not.

* * * *

"For such a prolific firm in the campaign game, it would seem counterproductive for Rasmussen to get pigeonholed as the "right-wing" pollsters. But a cursory glance at their front pages lately render it almost impossible to conclude anything else. It seems a rather sad course to chart for a firm that had been instrumental in examining the election cycles of the past."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/27/773158/-Rasmussen-Caught-With-Their-Thumb-On-The-Scale

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 29, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Obama's paternal grandmother is long dead.

Sarah Obama is alive and she is the one who said she was present at Barack's birth. She was BHO's grandfather's second wife and she actually attended the birth of BHO's father, Barack SR, to grandpa's first wife. Thus the entire story unravels.

BHO's maternal grandma was alive in HI until recently - did anyone care what she had to say? She was maternal grandpa's only wife and she helped raise BHO.

Of course there is a silver lining here for Romney. He too had multiple step - grandparents. Now it will not seem so strange.

Posted by: MoreAndBetterPolls | August 29, 2009 8:32 PM | Report abuse

If anyone else wants to discuss the Austrian-born hypothetical, in order to avoid aspertions of "racism" please let me know.

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

MM's "drift" was that I am not technically an @sshole, even though you all are calling me such.

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 7:07 PM | Report abuse

"The reason I'm loathe to use the racist label is that it ends the conversation"

Exactly. Because some people are so loathsome they aren't worth bothering with.

Posted by: drindl | August 29, 2009 6:52 PM | Report abuse

"The reason I'm loathe to use the racist label is that it ends the conversation. It is simplistic to assume you are or you aren't. The birther movement has a racist tinge to it, but to just call it a bunch of racists is to give up on trying to understand it let alone combat it."

Look, this makes sense if you're talking about something like affirmative action or school bussing. The opposition has legitimate points even if you disagree.

But you can't combat birthers on any kind of fact based level. They don't have an argument. Just fabrications.

I'm in favor of ignoring these people. But in terms of calling them racists. That's the beginning of it and that's the end of it. We don't have to come out and say it, but let's not credit these people with an ounce of intellectual credibility that they don't have.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 29, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Uh, Jake, you may not have grasped MM's drift...

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 29, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

margaretmeyers:

We finally agree on something.

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

P.S. water is not technically "wet" either; other objects in contact with water are considered wet.
Posted by: JakeD


P.P.S. people we call @ssholes aren't technically @ssholes; other people in contact with them just consider them @ssholes.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | August 29, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

"mm posted:

"And why does everyone at an airport smoke?"

I am picturing airport workers, forbidden to smoke in public buildings, congregating on break outside a hangar near a fuel supply... .

Posted by: mark_in_austin"

I know this isn't about workers, but when I think about smoking in airports, I think of those special smoking rooms. It's kind of like they're on display behind a glass door. It's a weird sight to me.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 29, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

I know this won't do any good since no amount of "evidence" will prove to the birth-of-a-nation-ers that BHO is an American, but here goes--

From "litho" on the DailyKos:

"Asked for more information about the short-form versus long-form birth documents, [State Department of Health spokeman Janice] Okubo said the Health Department "does not have a short-form or long-form certificate."

"The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models," she said.

Okubo also emphasized the certification form "contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate."

When asked directly about the Obama birth certificate we've seen images of, Okubo answered:

"This is the same certified copy everyone receives when they request a birth certificate."

No one will ever convince Orly Taitz or Alan Keyes of the truth -- they're beyond help or comprehension. But if a co-worker asks rhetorically why Obama doesn't release the long form, at least you now have the rebuttal at your fingertips..."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/3/761333/-Hawaii-doesnt-have-a-long-form-birth-certificate

Continue this snipe hunt further if you want... :)

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 29, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

It is also not "racist" or a "silly notion" that someone born in Kenya (or, Austria, per my hypothetical below) is Cpnstitutionally ineligible to become President of the United States.

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Well, I don't "know" at least that there is no long form, as I have seen other Hawaiian certificates around the same time with doctor's signature if not born out-of-State.

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

As all the "birthers" know, there is no long form certificate; it does not exist. Its existence is a racist urban myth. Searching for it is a bigot's snipe hunt. The Registar of Hawaii has officially stated multiple times there is no LFC.

From the article:

"A group of dull-minded racists, known as "birthers," are committed to the silly notion that President Obama was born in Kenya, therefore constitutionally ineligible to hold the highest office in the land."

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 29, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

P.S. water is not technically "wet" either; other objects in contact with water are considered wet.

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

It's not "incontrovertble" if his own paternal grandmother said that little Obama was born in Kenya. Hawaiian law at the time allowed out-of-State births to be registered in Honolulu. The newspaper birth announcements are hardly official proof. Why won't he simply release his LONG FORM birth certifcate?

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

We are not in the habit of proving water is wet or pain hurts. But here goes one last time:

Excerpt from article:

"A group of dull-minded racists, known as "birthers," are committed to the silly notion that President Obama was born in Kenya, therefore constitutionally ineligible to hold the highest office in the land.

President Barack Obama was born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii, and the right wing lunatics that insist that he was born in Kenya are ignoring one incontrovertible fact that proves that Mr. Obama is an American citizen.

The birth announcement was published in both of Honolulu's daily newspapers.

The birth announcement of Barack H. Obama was published in both the Honolulu Advertiser and the Star Bulletin on August 13, 1961. End of conspiracy theory."

http://open.salon.com/blog/rogerf1953/2009/07/21/racist_birthers_refuse_to_accept_a_black_president

QED

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 29, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I beleive that most people in america has some degree of racial prejudice, BB. It may be inherent in us, going back to early evolutionary times, when we were suspicious of different tribes, with whom we fought over resources. We still do that, or course, but our biases are more subtle and more cloaked in ambiguity, and some don't even realize their biases are present.

Of course, some just want to deny it because it's become socially unacceptable to most educated people.

Posted by: drindl | August 29, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I've already said there are some racists in the "birther" movement -- just as there are some who hate whites that voted for Obama -- for the rest of us, however, the issues re: Obama's birthplace are based solely on the U.S. Constitution. If the tables were turned, and my Austrian-born Governator had been elected instead, the Aryans would be overjoyed, but I would still be objecting.

As for me not wanting a black President as CIC, I voted Alan Keyes for President. I supported Truman's de-segregation of the Army too. That's not the problem, regardless of whether you want to believe me or not.

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Most legitimate commentators have acknowledged that the "birther" issue is a racist proxy issue, a stand-in, as Dr. Rachel Maddow called it, for direct racist attacks on our President. BHO could produce a video tape of his birth and it wouldn't satisfy the bigots.

Liliana Segura of Alternet has provided an excellent description of the birther movement and its racist motivation:

"Like all conspiracy theories, it springs from the fertile soil of collective denial. Unlike all conspiracy theories, it thrives on a deep-rooted, racist belief: that a black man with a foreign name could never have won the presidency in the United States through anything other than trickery, deception or fraud.

"If Barack Obama was an Irish American or a Polish American or a German American, there would be no discussion anywhere in this country about his citizenship," radio host E. Steven Collins told Chris Matthews on Thursday, in response to his fellow guest, deranged right-winger and Nixon Watergate operative, G. Gordon Liddy, whose own attempt to defend the birthers should mark a low point, even for his career. "This is because many people in this nation cannot still accept the fact that a brilliant African American is the commander-in-chief.""

http://www.alternet.org/rights/141587/racism_is_the_prime_cause_for_debunked_obama_birth_certificate_conspiracy_theory/?page=entire

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 29, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

The reason I'm loathe to use the racist label is that it ends the conversation. It is simplistic to assume you are or you aren't. The birther movement has a racist tinge to it, but to just call it a bunch of racists is to give up on trying to understand it let alone combat it. President Obama has a unique life story amongst our presidents. Having lived abroad myself and having married someone born outside the United States, I consider this a good thing. He has a perspective W never had and probably never will.

Racism isn't, errrm, black and white. A short story. The summer after I graduated from college, I shared a place with three friends. It was in a majority black neighborhood (Marshall in St. Paul, MN). I would often walk from my place to a ritzy shopping center nearby (Victoria Crossing). My path took me past a community center that often had a number of young black men standing outside. They were just hanging out, but I was on hair trigger alert every time I walked by. I'd never had personal reason to fear someone based on skin color, but I'd clearly absorbed that. It was an eye opener. So, do I believe some posters around here have race based biases? Yes. And they're not all on the right.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 29, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

BHO is doing just fine.

From NYT's Frank Rich's "Guns of August" column:

"For all the talk of Obama’s declining poll numbers this summer, he towers over his opponents. In last week’s Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll, only 21 percent approve of how Republicans in Congress are handling health care reform (as opposed to the president’s 41 percent). Should Obama fail to deliver serious reform because his administration treats the pharmaceutical and insurance industries as deferentially as it has the banks, that would be shameful. Should he fail because he in any way catered to a decimated opposition party that has sunk and shrunk to its craziest common denominator, that would be ludicrous.

The G.O.P., whose ranks have now dwindled largely to whites in Dixie and the less-populated West, is not even a paper tiger —it’s a paper muskrat. James Carville is correct when he says that if Republicans actually carried out their filibuster threats on health care, it would be a political bonanza for the Democrats."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/opinion/23rich.html?_r=1

Still as BHO himself has said his approval would be ten points higher but for Fox's 24/7 bombardment. Never before in the history of broadcasting has a TV channel (Fox "News") devoted almost their entire broadcast day to attack a sitting President. The channel is in effect a free day-long anti-BHO political attack ad, and, IMO, should be regulated by the FEC and the FCC as such. What's shameful is its hate programming has corporate sponsorship, although Beck's is dwindling to nothing thanks to colorofchange.org.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 29, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

You're right, d. JD lurks on the Washington Monthly blog as well. Same tired birther theme: BHO isn't president and so on.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 29, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure WaPo staffers have compiled a list of their favorite poster children. That is why I don't think anyone should be banned. As far as racism, the definition really is the economic definition derived from slavery. That is... it was State sanctioned, the law of the land. Black humans, African were defined as inferior and the whites who owned them superior. Over 300 years this developed into an acceptance of the obvious economic superiority of the relationship. I spent part of my life in S. Carolina and Tennessee growing up and the poorest trailer dweller who was white, thought of himself as at least superior to any blacks they saw.

Anyway, our resident troll is of that latency. It considers itself superior to darker skin humans and those that support them. The thought that a black man could be in an authoritative position above them as say CIC drives them to embrace anything that signifies unworthiness. Thus, they don't have to accept reality... they're fighting against it. I think many of us saw the extent of the racial hatred during the general election and now that group seeks to de-legitimize a democratically elected leader. My favorite part of that process is that their most recent beloved leader (Bush/Cheney)... was not elected but selected. So fascism and racism sitting in a tree... trying to gather up a mob.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 29, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Great stuff, d. We are seeing the kicking and failing just before his show kicks the bucket. If they no longer have a single blue chip company to sponsor him, it's over. Fox also probably fears Beck's blight may spread to the other Fox hate shows and cause sponsors to flee them, too.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 29, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

joe -- for your amusement:

After Fox News star Glenn Beck accused President Obama of being a “racist” with a “deep-seated hatred for white people,” a drive by Color Of Change has convinced 46 companies to cancel their advertisements on his show. In response, Beck and FoxNews have launched increasingly vicious attacks on White House official Van Jones, who co-founded Color Of Change in 2005 following the devastation of Hurricane Katrina.
Now radical right-winger Gary Kreep, head of the United States Justice Foundation, is leaping to Beck’s assistance. He has established DefendGlenn.com, not to justify Beck’s indefensible hate speech, but to spread smears about Color Of Change and Van Jones. On the website, Kreep instructs Glenn Beck fans to tell advertisers that Van Jones “went to prison for inciting the 1992 Rodney King riots in L.A.”:

Tell them CoC’s founder went to prison for inciting the 1992 L.A. Riots, and accused President Bush of giving troops orders to shoot black people after Hurricane Katrina.

In reality, Van Jones was a legal observer in San Francisco, not Los Angeles, during a non-violent rally that took place after, not before the riots. Jones and hundreds of others were seized in a mass arrest. He was released within a few hours, all charges were dropped, and “the City of San Francisco ultimately compensated him financially for his unjust arrest.”

Jones also has never “accused President Bush of giving troops orders to shoot black people after Hurricane Katrina,” as the DefendGlenn site claims. Kreep’s inflammatory lie has no factual basis whatsoever.

Kreep’s unhinged attacks come as no surprise, however. He is one of the leaders of the “birther” movement, claiming that President Obama is not a citizen of the United States.

UPDATE In a comically-entertaining segment with a psychiatrist yesterday, Beck complained about the things that "blogs and everything else" have been calling him. "I'm a freak show...hysterical...a shameless opportunist...I'm full of crap...spineless, coward, I love that...and I'm just a fear-mongering whatever," Beck said. Watch it:


http://thinkprogress.org/

Posted by: drindl | August 29, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

google tells it like it is, joe.

our troll apparently posts on a number of websites, the denizens of which all call him a racist. what a surprise. google around a bit. he isn't welcome anywhere... kind of like the plague or leprosy.

Posted by: drindl | August 29, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, yeah, we know the shtick -- anyone who disagrees with Obama is "racist swine" -- maybe when Mr. Cillizza returns from vacation, the name-callers will be banned (again).

Posted by: JakeD | August 29, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Poetic justice for...Jack Johnson.

As you know, when you Google-search, it tries to anticipate your search term based on the first few letters you type in. It usually will show about four or five search terms. If one of them is what you intended to type, you can just double click on the suggestion.

At least for today, if you type in "Lynn," the first search term that Google suggests is "lynn jenkins racist." :-)

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 29, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

@dog, I also recall Dianne72 was obsessed with the First Lady's eating habits. Odd, because I'm certain D72 never got close enough to see her eat.

D72 also insisted Michelle had a stereotypical middle name, which she doesn't.

The greatest troll, IMO, was, of course, 37thandO, hands down.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 29, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

mm posted:

"And why does everyone at an airport smoke?"

I am picturing airport workers, forbidden to smoke in public buildings, congregating on break outside a hangar near a fuel supply... .

Posted by: mark_in_austin | August 29, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

If "JD has a right to be racist" then I have the right to tell him to f*ck himself. Perhaps we have different visions of what civility requires.

Better to ignore him though, because insults just appeal to his martyr complex and give him material for another 20 posts of cringing, oleaginous self-righteousness and cover to slip in a few more indefensible innuendos. He'll beg you not to throw him into that brier, he will.

Posted by: nodebris | August 29, 2009 3:04 AM | Report abuse

I work at an airport and you would not believe the way we talk. Unhappily, the passengers pitch in, too. Nothing like hearing a mother tell her pre-schooler to "shut the f up" to make your ovaries wither and die. Honestly.

And why does everyone at an airport smoke? I'e been in a lot of workforces in my life and airports have got huge ciggie habits.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | August 29, 2009 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Well, I think I've used it a total of about five times on here. Asking me to show more restraint might be too much for me.

And thanks for telling me that JD has a right to be racist. (I forget who said this) Can I take my straw man back? I want to use the HOV lane.

Anyways, off to the casino to relieve the rich tourists of their gambling money. Hopefully you won't hear too many f-bombs coming out of Harrahs tonight.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 28, 2009 11:19 PM | Report abuse

The main reason to limit use of profanity or vulgarity is respect. A good friend of mine went from high school to the Navy. It seemed like every sentence was incomplete without f-this and effin-that. He'd been desensitized and a truly juicy word had been reduced to the equivalent of really. Now, when someone who never swears drops an f-bomb? That gets my attention.

The other reason is subtlety. There's no nuance to the f-word. It's just the f-word. It's akin to taking a dump in a sentence. It's been so overused that it means everything and nothing. So, when someone uses it casually, it tells me they don't have anything interesting to say.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 28, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

appreciate the warning...

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 28, 2009 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Out for the weekend, not posting here till Monday. Parties, felony narcotics, and wild depraved orgies. 'Night!

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse

I remember Diane... she was vicious. She did indeed pivot on the 1rst Lady and stuck with that "Whitey" tape thing for months. Played the role well too, very effective with the two sentence gut punch. I think we could all learn from these naturally gifted trolls. SVreader was another, Iowatreasure. We took both of those out though, they got to close to their candidate. As far as the resident troll on this blog, it uses the same technique only the whitey tape has been attached to something more tangible, a birth certificate. That would make a person disqualified.... and we all know the Repuglicans have not had much luck electing a President most recently exemplified by Bush's selection.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 28, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse

@de la Vega: Feed Tornado and get some rest. Got to watch the Redskins. Out.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 9:51 PM | Report abuse

I re-read my post. It sounds like I am defending JD. I'm not. But it's clear this platform, which had some choice words about BHO's Secretary of State, oddly doesn't find JD's junk offensive. Ignore the guy.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 9:45 PM | Report abuse

You just have to ignore his taunts. Dianne72, with her daily insults of the First Lady and making fun of her name, was far worse than JD. I found it interesting though that JD was not banned but CF8, who was just responding to his junk, was. The explanation was: it wasn't about their respective politics. But many have said that when they say it's not about the money, it's about the money. Just sayin'. :)

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 9:38 PM | Report abuse

But he has a perfect right to express his views.

==

No idea why you brought "rights" into it, nobody said anything about rights. Funny how reflexive a dodge that is in America.

What he doesn't have is the right to hijack someone else's soap box to repeat the same rant over and over and over and over. Nobody else here is so brainlessly repetitive.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 9:22 PM | Report abuse

Well Obama isn't a racist of course but to claim Jake isn't one is, sorry, just plain delusional. He is little else but one.
__________

For the record, Jake is a "birther" and it's been stated by many mainstream commentators, e.g., Dr. Rachel Maddow, that the birther arguments and the foolish demands to see BHO's [non-existent] long form birth certificate, are just proxies for direct racist attacks on our 44th President. But he has a perfect right to express his views.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 9:18 PM | Report abuse

Updated 7:10 p.m.
Rep. Denny Rehberg (R-Mont.) and four others were hospitalized Thursday after a serious boating accident, and Montana law enforcement officials are investigating whether alcohol played any role in the crash, state officials said Friday.

Rehberg and state Senate Majority Whip Greg Barkus were hospitalized in Kalispell, Montana, along with Barkus's wife, Kathy, and two Rehberg aides. All five were in stable condition Friday afternoon, Kalispell Regional Medical Center spokesman Jim Oliverson told The Sleuth.

Their 22-foot boat ran aground on the rocky shore of Flathead Lake, near the town of Bigfork, sometime between 10 p.m. and midnight Thursday.

The congressman sustained a broken left ankle and "quite a bump on the head" in the boat crash, Rehberg's former chief of staff, Eric Iverson, told Montana state reporters during a conference call. Iverson, who still does crisis management for Rehberg, reportedly said the congressman underwent surgery to repair his ankle.

He said the congressman was not driving the boat.

Jim Satterfield, the regional director of Montana's Fish, Wildlife and Parks agency, tells The Sleuth that his agency, the Montana Highway Patrol and the Flathead County Sheriff's office are jointly investigating how fast the boat was going, who was driving and "whether alcohol and drugs were involved."

Asked if alcohol was found on board the boat, Satterfield declined to comment. "An investigation is underway," he said.

taken from the other blog. There is also a great picture of the boat up on the rocks. They look like they are very lucky.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 28, 2009 9:06 PM | Report abuse

Beck can have 20 million viewers. It won't matter. If he has no sponsors he has no show. The TV programs exist only to get you to watch the ads.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 9:04 PM | Report abuse

much better developing story is the Repuglican member from one of the square states crashed his boat at 11 p.m. yesterday. In the hospital... massive cover-up in process. Been what... almost 11 day's since the last scandal. I bet it turns out he was absorbed in bible verse and lost track of the shoreline. Anyway, not like he had a beer cup hat on like congressman Vito Fossil.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 28, 2009 9:01 PM | Report abuse

BB@744, my husband and I once watched Midnight Run on broadcast. We both wondered WHAT they were going to do about the F word, because that is a huge part of the dialogue. They used flip, flipped and flipping. It worked.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | August 28, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse

So much for "ignoring" me.

Good luck with them, FairlingtonBlade. Have a wonderful evening.

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 8:22 PM | Report abuse

"Well, the D-word is a profanity, not a vulgarity. I'm not offended by either and well familiar with their use. I just think that we can express ourselves around here without the use of either."

==

Yes we can express ourselves without vulgarity, and we can express ourselves without profanity, and we can always use the lexicon of high school publications, but what would be the point? I care more about precision in grammar than anyone (I was born this way, and didn't begin speaking till age 3 when I could manage complete sentences), but I also recognize the dreariness of pedantry. If one is exactingly scrupulous in expression on gets chumble like "to be due to."

Good expression has not only grammar, it has texture. I love the occasional descent of scrupulous grammar into coarse colloquialism, done well it defines an exceptional writer, for example NoDebris' post about Teddy Kennedy and his brothers.

==

"I could also get by with the dropping of the various "ist"s in common use. I don't think Obama is one and neither is Jake."

Well Obama isn't a racist of course but to claim Jake isn't one is, sorry, just plain delusional. He is little else but one.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse

No, it doesn't (I'm surprised, DDAWD, from someone so upset about "we've turned this into another JakeD discussion"). Hopefully, when Mr. Cillizza returns from vacation / paternity leave, he will ban (again) those who are name-calling.

Gotta go, McCain is speaking.

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

You haven't been paying attention or you think that anything short of a white robe and a flaming cross isn't racist.

I absolutely 100% think the birther movement is racist. This isn't a liberal thing. This isn't a Democrat thing. This is a race thing.

I absolutely 100% think that typing Obama's middle name in all caps is racist. Again, not a Democrat thing, not a liberal thing. A race thing.

I absolutely 100% think that calling interracial dating deviant behavior is racist.

I'm pretty surprised that you think differently. Perhaps you just didn't notice any of this.

I don't throw the racist term around lightly, but it absolutely 100% applies here.

==

Co-sign

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 8:03 PM | Report abuse

"I could also get by with the dropping of the various "ist"s in common use. I don't think Obama is one and neither is Jake."

You haven't been paying attention or you think that anything short of a white robe and a flaming cross isn't racist.

I absolutely 100% think the birther movement is racist. This isn't a liberal thing. This isn't a Democrat thing. This is a race thing.

I absolutely 100% think that typing Obama's middle name in all caps is racist. Again, not a Democrat thing, not a liberal thing. A race thing.

I absolutely 100% think that calling interracial dating deviant behavior is racist.

I'm pretty surprised that you think differently. Perhaps you just didn't notice any of this.

I don't throw the racist term around lightly, but it absolutely 100% applies here.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 28, 2009 7:59 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe:

So long as Glenn Beck draws more audience than Olbermann and Maddow COMBINED, he's not going anywhere.

GoldAndTanzanite:

As you know, at least ONE Republican was telling the truth:

"The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

http://www.factcheck.org/bushs_16_words_on_iraq_uranium.html

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Well, the D-word is a profanity, not a vulgarity. I'm not offended by either and well familiar with their use. I just think that we can express ourselves around here without the use of either. I could also get by with the dropping of the various "ist"s in common use. I don't think Obama is one and neither is Jake. My approach is to address the argument, not the person.

I'm reminded by an entertaining story I once heard on All Things Considered which was a discussion of the f-word. I think they used flock as the substitute word. It was quite funny, particularly so since I started listening in the middle of the conversation. If you will, I was thinking what the flock are they talking about? Glass bowl has become regularly used on Carolyn Hax's chats.

As for the emergence of a few sNoballs, so be it.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 28, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Well, the vulgarity is just a word. Probably the 150th most offensive thing you've seen on this board.

==

Anyone offended by the use of the F-word for emphasis really needs to get out more.

Compared to the racist swinery we see in those damned long form trolls, that doesn't move the peg off the left pin.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Great news: Media Matters reports Beck has now lost ALL of his blue-chip sponsors. He has only the dregs left. Incredible work by colorofchange.org, who led the boycott.

"It's a dollar-a-holler on Glenn Beck
August 28, 2009 4:38 pm ET by Eric Boehlert

"Dollar-a-holler" is the old-time radio term used to describe ad rates on small-town AM radio stations. I'm reminded of the phrase after reading this key passage from the Los Angeles Times, and how Beck no longer has any A-list advertisers:

As a result, few major businesses remain as sponsors of Beck’s eponymous 2 p.m. PDT program. On Wednesday, the only big companies with a presence during his show were Bank of America and the Wall Street Journal, whose parent company News Corp. also owns Fox News. The rest of the commercials included spots for gold seller Rosland Capital; Ashley Furniture Home Store; Empire Carpet; Liberty Medical, a diabetes medical supplier; Johnson Law Group, an asbestos litigation firm; “Shadow Government,” a new book critical of Obama published by the National Republican Trust; and the anti-tax group TeaPartyExpress.org.

Turns out Bank of America isn't even a Beck sponsor. So as best I can tell, all the blue chip advertisers have abandoned Glenn Beck.

All. Of. Them."

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200908280030

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

A Daily Kos post is reporting Rep. Jenkins evidently lied when she claimed not to know the racial connotation of "Great White Hope."

==

Uh, isn't she a Republican?

It's be newsworthy if one of them ever told the truth.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 7:32 PM | Report abuse

"Joe -- I know, it's interesting that the press is completely ignoring the insane assasination preacher, isn't it?

While Reverend Wright never said anything nearly as disturbing or violent and was the object of coverage for several months."

Not that the press should necessarily be ignoring this guy, but Wright was Obama's preacher for a long time. The Arizona guy is just some stupid redneck. One of McCain's pastor supporters had to drop his endorsement because of something anti-Semetic he said. The press was pretty on top of that too. Yeah, Wright was more played up, but that's because of FOX News more than anything.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 28, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Luckily, it is still legal for that guy to carry his AK-47 and attend Rev. Anderson's sermon (in case you are wondering, try the First and Second Amendments ; )

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

d, there's some reporting the S.S. paid this clown a visit. Thank goodness. But this story should lead the NBC Nightly News. The guy with the AK was at Anderson's sermon, a direct connection. So that lunatic was not attending to debate the public option.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 7:16 PM | Report abuse

drindl:

"God D@mn America" is indeed worse.

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 7:13 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe:

As you know, legislators don't read every bill they support. Nice try though.

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

That's okay, Jake. You're, uh, doing just fine.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Joe -- I know, it's interesting that the press is completely ignoring the insane assasination preacher, isn't it?

While Reverend Wright never said anything nearly as disturbing or violent and was the object of coverage for several months.

To pray for the death of the president of America is kind of a treasonous thing, wouldn't you say? I mean, of a mental variety, not prosecutable as long as he doesn't tell someone to go out and do it. But it's almost the same thing, isn't it? A 'man of God' telling you that as a Christian you need to stop the president's agenda? Spiritually, are you not charged then to go out and do something about it?

A particularly virulent form of hate speech.

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

A Daily Kos post is reporting Rep. Jenkins evidently lied when she claimed not to know the racial connotation of "Great White Hope."
___________

"Jenkins, R-Kan., said Thursday she didn’t know “great white hope” had a negative connotation when she recently used the phrase to describe Republicans’ search for a new leader.

However, the freshman lawmaker supported a resolution that included that exact phrase last month when the House approved by unanimous consent a measure urging President Obama to pardon black U.S. boxer Jack Johnson. Johnson, who died in 1946, was the target of an early 1900s racist plot and convicted in 1913 of transporting a white woman across state lines for immoral reasons.

Within the resolution passed by the House July 29 was a passage that read, “Whereas the victory by Jack Johnson over Tommy Burns prompted a search for a White boxer who could beat Jack Johnson, a recruitment effort that was dubbed the search for the ‘great white hope.’”"

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/28/773716/-SHE-LIED:-Rep.-Jenkins-Knows-All-About-the-Great-White-Hope

And, of course, the real life GWH, Jess Willard, lived only 27 miles from her hometown. Nice try, Lynn Jenkins.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 7:10 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe:

I'd better start posting more then.

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Congrats, G&T.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

On a civility note, putting an umlaut onto a vülgarity so you can post it is worthy of an abuse flag. I suspect that ñi___r might make it through the flag, but that doesn't make it right or even clever.

==

Sorry, got carried away, shan't repeat.

As for the Report Abuse, has anyone ever seen any results from those? At least they don't bounce now.

I peeked into the Precinct a few days ago, where I used to post until the whole thing got taken over by one free-market troll, and their moderator has been laid off. I doubt those Report Abuse thingees are going anywhere further than a database.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

"On a civility note, putting an umlaut onto a vülgarity so you can post it is worthy of an abuse flag. I suspect that ñi___r might make it through the flag, but that doesn't make it right or even clever. And if you are going to ignore someone, the least you can do is shut up about it!"

Well, the vulgarity is just a word. Probably the 150th most offensive thing you've seen on this board.

And ditto to the shutting up about ignoring someone. It's not ignoring if you're always talking about it.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 28, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Today's blog stats (out of 117 posts):

GoldAndTanzanite 20
snowbama 16
drindl 15
JakeD 14
broadwayjoe 12
bsimon1 9
DDAWD 6
angriestdogintheworld 6
mnteng 5
mikeinmidland 5
scrivener50 2
AndyR3 2
sjxylib 1
reason5 1
leichtman 1
jckdoors 1
FairlingtonBlade 1

On a civility note, putting an umlaut onto a vülgarity so you can post it is worthy of an abuse flag. I suspect that ñi___r might make it through the flag, but that doesn't make it right or even clever. And if you are going to ignore someone, the least you can do is shut up about it!

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 28, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Tom Moroney OTOH ; )

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

For the record, I have no problem at all with (Jesus) Christ.

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 6:32 PM | Report abuse

"Don't forget the Dems trying to change the law to replace Sen. Kennedy now that a Republican Governor is not in office"

interesting that conservatives here seem to have no problem at all with Christ and Martinez manipulating the Florida Senate seat by resignation and appointment for raw politcal purposes. Some how it seems more honorable for a governor to be relacing a seat vacated by the death of a Senator on an interim basis then it is for a Senator to be merely resign and then orchistrate the best political outcome for his successor. State Legislatures should be free to structure their succession plan anyway they want to. In Texas it was called the LBJ Rule. But the bottom line is that Christ and the state of Florida Republican party are doing exactly what Gov. Patrick and the Mass. Democratic party are planning to do make sure that their state has 2 US Senators at all times. We should have learned from Minnesota, that have a US Senate seat open for 5 months hurts a state's interest in pending Senate legislation, be it an open Republican or Democratic seat. If you are going to attack Mass.politican, you should look in the Fla. mirror.

Posted by: leichtman | August 28, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, d. I didn't catch it, but should've.

This Pastor Anderson is scary stuff and the MSM, including this space, is ignoring it. This goes way beyond shoe throwing. It's times like these you miss Cronkite and Russert, real journalists. Russert would have had McCain or McConnell on TV and demanded they condemn this lunacy. Now we have...Chucky T and David Gregory. Funny, the MSM went on 24/7 for two months during the campaign about Reverend Wright, who was usually just stating historical facts in a flamboyant way, but can't say a peep about Pastor Anderson.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse


If she doesn't get the nomination, the mentals will go absolutely postal, literally.

==

And then Palin will pull yet another unhinged stunt and run under some "Energy Independence Party" if not the American Insignificant Party that Gomer is always ranting about, drawing voters away from whichever nonentity gets the nod (Mitch Daniels! Tim Pawlenty! Mitt Romney! ...)

And of course she'll pray for GAWT to intervene on her behalf and she'll REALLY BELIEVE that he would.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 6:14 PM |
=====================================

Bullfeathers!... she'd run as a Bull Moose in a Tippycanoe. But most of us true believers are convinced it will be President Trig who will be presiding when Jesus returns.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 28, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

If she doesn't get the nomination, the mentals will go absolutely postal, literally.

==

And then Palin will pull yet another unhinged stunt and run under some "Energy Independence Party" if not the American Insignificant Party that Gomer is always ranting about, drawing voters away from whichever nonentity gets the nod (Mitch Daniels! Tim Pawlenty! Mitt Romney! ...)

And of course she'll pray for GAWT to intervene on her behalf and she'll REALLY BELIEVE that he would.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

I shall call him: MINI ME.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | August 28, 2009 6:13 PM | Report abuse

I posed that earlier today, joe. Yes the Arizona 'minister' and his 'christian' flock are praying for our president to die.

These slugs are an abomination to God, an evil, cracked funhouse mirror image of everything Jesus stood for.

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 6:08 PM | Report abuse

Troubling times.

It turns out that the brainwashed, Stockholm-syndrome AA man who carried an AK rifle to a BHO rally was, possibly, incited by an anti-BHO sermon by "Lunatic Pastor Steven Anderson" as he is described in the post. In the sermon, the pastor explicitly calls for the unmentionable to happen to 44. (Can't repeat what he said.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x360853

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

"The GOP base isn't going to vote for a dark-skinned man any more than they're going to vote for a Mormon or for someone pro-choice. Piyush has self-marginalized by joining the GOP.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite"

Well, this isn't exactly California we're talking about. He's the governor of a very red state.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 28, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

"DDAWD:

So is Jindal playing nice with the Ds in LA? Granted, it should be relatively easier since Ds in LA are generally more conservative than Ds in, say, CA or NY. But I haven't been following him much since his ethics reforms went by the wayside around the time of his Kenneth impression, er, SOTU response.

Posted by: mnteng"

Well, I think the D and R loses a lot of its distinction at any governor level. You're working on trying to fix unique state problems and you don't answer to a majority leader or a whip. This medical complex is a huge deal and while you might consider him hypocritical for pushing for federal money after decrying the stimulus, this goes far beyond a token gesture to play nice.

If Jindal does run for higher office, it will be interesting to see how his campaign themes out. It might be framed in terms of things like the med complex and how Louisiana has been relatively insulated from the recession or it might be framed in terms of the Academic Freedom Act (allows creationism to be taught). Most candidates have to do a center shift when transitioning from primary to general mode. It was a little less painful for Obama since most Americans want what the Dems were selling anyways. This kind of shift will necessarily be more extreme for Jindal due to the extremist nature of the Republican party.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 28, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

excellent job my peeps. Please continue to quote the Daily Kos as if it was a real organization. I am looking for a propoganda czar. Perhaps you have some free time?

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Didn't GOP Congressman Lynn Jenkins put out the national call for a great WHITE hope to defeat the black guy. Sorry, Piyush. Maybe next time.

==

The GOP base isn't going to vote for a dark-skinned man any more than they're going to vote for a Mormon or for someone pro-choice. Piyush has self-marginalized by joining the GOP.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 5:35 PM
_________

Unless former governor Phalin totally implodes before 2012, she, IMO, will be the GOP nominee. The force behind it will be same mentals, sociopaths, and racists that the GOP has set upon BHO. How ironic. If she doesn't get the nomination, the mentals will go absolutely postal, literally.

Albeit for different reasons than Fix's, I, too, am rooting hard for Gregory Charles Royal's almost best friend, Ms. Sarah Heath.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

@whichever trolls are lurking to spew "approval" numbers and snarky anti-BHO slurs:

Marist poll: Obama 56, Palin 33, if the election were held today.

It is the fact the GOP has no flesh and blood candidate who can come within 23 points of BHO that has prompted Lynn Jenkins's desperate national call for a "Great White Hope." They know the Rasmussen-type numbers are meaningless.

Look, despite the month-long battering by the hate broadcasters, teabaggers, birthers, and Town Hall terro-, er, protesters, and assorted racists (see, e.g., Lynn Jenkins, IMO) and white supremacists--with, sadly, no pushback by BHO's people--BHO stands in good shape at 55% (Daily Kos, 8/28/09).

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who failed "economics" has exactly the right priorities in his education. Useless pseudoscience.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD:

So is Jindal playing nice with the Ds in LA? Granted, it should be relatively easier since Ds in LA are generally more conservative than Ds in, say, CA or NY. But I haven't been following him much since his ethics reforms went by the wayside around the time of his Kenneth impression, er, SOTU response.

Posted by: mnteng | August 28, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Didn't GOP Congressman Lynn Jenkins put out the national call for a great WHITE hope to defeat the black guy. Sorry, Piyush. Maybe next time.

==

The GOP base isn't going to vote for a dark-skinned man any more than they're going to vote for a Mormon or for someone pro-choice. Piyush has self-marginalized by joining the GOP.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

"I think when it really comes down to it, the base won't go for Jindal, especially when they find out that his mother immigrated here from India when she was pregnant with him."
_____________
Didn't GOP Congressman Lynn Jenkins put out the national call for a great WHITE hope to defeat the black guy. Sorry, Piyush. Maybe next time.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

What did we do to deserve this idiot troll?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Howard Kurtz on facebook...

"Huckabee says under Obamacare, Kennedy would have been urged to 'take pain pills & die.' Forget about politicization. Utterly tasteless."

Fùcking prick

Posted by: DDAWD | August 28, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

At least I didn't pay someone to take my Spanish test. I took the "F" in Economics. It didn't hurt me so bad. I am busy abolishing economics now anyway. I have little use for intelligent thought on financial matters.

It is actually quite simple. I take the money from those who work and have it and distribute it to those who don't.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

appreciate the weather overview tomorrow. Won't be able to make it but nice to know the heavens will be blubbering and pouring tears. Fitting. Beats a humid day of global warming any day.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 28, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

"He didn't say Jindal is a moderate, he said if Jindal ran as a moderate, he could pull it off. See Tim Pawlenty for an example. He talks a good game about compromise and working together, but when it comes to getting the work done, he's as partisan as they come. Call him the opposite of Sen Kennedy, for example, who had instincts as liberal as they come - but knew how to compromise with the other side in order to move policy in the direction he wanted."

Yes, that is more along the lines of what I meant. I think Jindal is more like a right wing Ted Kennedy. He'll be more extremist to broader audiences, but today's speech was very non-political. It was a very broad reaching effort. You had some right wingers like Jindal and some business leaders. You had centrists like Cao and some University presidents. You had left leaners like the urban league. I'd been following this for the past year, so I know it got kind of sticky. You even had Jindal talking about going through arbitration to *gasp* obtain more federal funds!

If Jindal can stick to this kind of stuff and stay away from the batshat fundamentalist stuff, then he could be more successful at least as a general candidate. Not so sure about the primaries. The Republican party might be so polarized at this point in time that winning them over might disqualify you from winning the country as a whole.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 28, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Making pretty heavy use of PgUp today

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

something is seriously wrong here because you cannot become a citizen unless you've been in country for five years and held a green card during those years.

>>>>>>>

and that is why none of my school records, passport documents, grades, finances or student loans are available. Why look back? unless it is to blame the perpetrators of all that is wrong and evil in the world - bush, cheney and the republicans .

what if JakeD found out I travelled once on an Indonesian passport? he might drop the whole loony long form thing. Trust me, I need this distraction.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

mnteng writes
"I think it is harder to change your political stripes than it might seem."

You may be right. But today I'm feeling particularly skeptical of the average voter's ability to see past 30 second TV spots and a carefully crafted media image. A guy like G.W.Bush knew how to talk like a moderate but blow on the dog whistle to rouse the base. Palin, in comparison, used a bullhorn. Jindal might be clever enough to emulate Bush 43 & Pawlenty. Within the party, I think its easier to build a reputation among the base, then go 'moderate' for the public roll-out; the base knows you have to say certain things to win the election, and will forgive you for saying things you don't really mean. Going the other way is tougher: see Romney.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 28, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Insulated by the consequences of his behavior, Kennedy was also shielded from the consequences of his policies. He was the champion of busing who kept his own children far from the public schools; an advocate of publicly funded campaigns who bankrolled his political career with his family's shadowy financing; an icon of feminists who used women like Kleenex, serially harassed members of the opposite sex, and spent ten hours attempting to rescue his political career as he denied the young women suffocating in an air pocket in his Oldsmobile professional rescue attempts; and the primary booster of socialized medicine who assembled a dream team of neurosurgeons to consult on his treatment for brain cancer. The proverbial limousine liberal was made real in Trustfund Ted.

So you can all see why I love Ted. He is is so many ways the perfect effete snobby no-nothing liberal with no qualifications and little regard for anyone but himself.

A man after my heart. At least I was a community organizer once.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

The Harlem Dem now admits that he failed to disclose several million dollars in income and business deals during those years -- including up to $1 million from the sale of a building on 132nd Street.

How could that happen?

Charlie won't say.

Even stranger, city records show that Rangel still owns the building.

How can that be, if Rangel sold it, as he now claims? Maybe the records are wrong, but Charlie's not talking.

There are adjustments -- as much as $780,000 -- in the value of his assets:

* An "omitted" checking account valued between $250,000 to $500,000.

* Another fund worth up to $100,000.

* Unreported investment portfolios said to be between $15,000 and $50,000.

The unreported business deals total a jaw-dropping $3 million. Huh?

So what explains all this?

Yup: Charlie's lips are zipped.

Absent anything dispositive, the best that can be assumed is that the nation's tax-writer-in-chief is sloppy, careless -- dare we say, incompetent? -- beyond all possible credibility.

That's bad enough. But given his mile-long record of "lapses" -- even before these latest "oversights" -- the public is left to wonder: What is Rangel hiding?

Remember, none of this would have come to light at all had the Sunday Post not broken the story, almost exactly a year ago, about his failure to disclose -- and pay tax on -- some $75,000 in rental income from his Caribbean villa.

Then followed revelations about his:

* Four rent-stabilized apartments.

* Apparent quid pro quo in preserving a tax loophole for an oil company that donated $1 million to a planned "public service" center named for Rangel.

Last May, the Sunday Post disclosed yet another Rangel scandal, involving corporate junkets to the Caribbean.

Yes, the House -- which is controlled by fellow Democrats -- has begun investigations. But so far it's failed to act. And there's scant reason to think it ever will.

Don't worry charley. I will see to it, just like our pal in NM, that you get off scott free. Instead, I will look into those traitors and scoundrels over at CIA.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Don't forget that anyone can edit Wikipedia entries.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/wikipedia_celebrates_750_years_of

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

LOL!!! Young Mr. Dahlager (and family) haven't seen Obama's LONG FORM birth certificate though.

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

bsimon1:

I understand. But Jindal's positions are already staked out in the right wing of the GOP. In order to run as a moderate, he would have to show some significant movement toward the middle, without alienating his base. I would argue that Pawlenty has consistently tried to stake out a claim in the center-right, regardless of what he actually follows through on. I think it is harder to change your political stripes than it might seem.

Posted by: mnteng | August 28, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Usually politics hit the MN state fair in the form of candidates' booths, but not this year, when the subject crept into the fine arts building...

http://minnesotaindependent.com/43131/obama-birth-certificate-seed-art-at-the-minnesota-state-fair

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 28, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

I think when it really comes down to it, the base won't go for Jindal, especially when they find out that his mother immigrated here from India when she was pregnant with him. So he's an 'anchor baby.' Mind you, I don't care. .. I'm not anti-immigrant. But maybe it's okay, because he says he's against immigration. Not too hypocritical.

"So how did they do it? According to published newspapers articles, Jindal's mother came as a graduate student to LSU. His father was already "an assistant professor at a Chandigarh engineering college" (he has an engineering degree, which is all that was necessary to be a prof in India at that time) and his mother was a student in the nuclear physics program at the Post Graduate Institute of Medical Sciences in Chandigarh. That explains the reason why she was offered the position at LSU. So they came here with F-1 (student) and F-2 (student relative) visas, which did not entitled him to work. Yet, he went out and got a job, which I bet was not pushing a janitor's cart or washing dishes, through the yellow pages?

But here is the kicker: Jindal's wikipedia page says that both of Jindal's parents took the oath of citizenship within one year after his birth. Either the wikipedia page is crap (possible!) or something is seriously wrong here because you cannot become a citizen unless you've been in country for five years and held a green card during those years.

Let's say that the wikipedia editors got it wrong and it was the green card that was issued to them at that time. The conditions on F visas did not allow a student to change status unless they marry a US citizen/resident or, apparently, have a child born in the US. If so, then Bobby Jindal is an anchor baby and his parents must have broken the conditions of their visa in order to pay for his delivery. "

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

O' Danny Boy:

Weather forecasters warned today that Tropical Storm Danny may drench Massachusetts with several inches of rain Saturday, the day of Senator Edward M. Kennedy's funeral in Boston as well as a big move-in day for students in the academic mecca. In addition, the city's Caribbean Festival is also scheduled to start in a nearby neighborhood a few hours after the funeral begins, and a Red Sox game is expected to lure fans to Fenway Park Saturday night. To deal with all the activity, police plan put 1,000 to 2,000 officers on the streets, the Globe reported this morning.

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

bsimon1:

Sen. Kennedy has said his greatest mistake was NOT compromising with Nixon on nationalized healthcare.

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

mnteng writes
"Honestly, the man thinks intelligent design should be taught along side evolution in science class. That's moderate?"

He didn't say Jindal is a moderate, he said if Jindal ran as a moderate, he could pull it off. See Tim Pawlenty for an example. He talks a good game about compromise and working together, but when it comes to getting the work done, he's as partisan as they come. Call him the opposite of Sen Kennedy, for example, who had instincts as liberal as they come - but knew how to compromise with the other side in order to move policy in the direction he wanted.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 28, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

@mteng: you beat me to it.

It'd be one thing if Jindal was some cracker with his smokes rolled up his shirtsleeve, but he's not, he's a guy with a Ph.D. And he claims to disbelieve in evolution.

That means two things

(1) he compartmentalizes, which is evil

(2) his mind is for sale

He's not a moderate in any sense of the word. He's a well-educated nutjob.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD writes:

"I think if [Jindal] wants to run for President as a moderate, he could pull it off."

You're joking, right? Jindal running as a moderate? One of the reasons McC was considering him as a running mate (besides the skin color thing) was because he appeals to the right wing of the GOP.

Honestly, the man thinks intelligent design should be taught along side evolution in science class. That's moderate?

Posted by: mnteng | August 28, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Pretty off topic, but it seems like we've turned this into another JakeD discussion.

I just saw Bobby Jindal give a press conference at my school for the signing of a MOU for the opening of a new academic medical complex. I can see why he was so bad at the rebuttal to Obama's address to Congress. His natural style is to speak at a brisk pace. In fact, he seemed to get faster and faster as the time passed. I think he was overcoached for his rebuttal which ended up as a drawling style. That's not his natural tempo.
He's also quite smart and very wonky. I think if he wants to run for President as a moderate, he could pull it off.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 28, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Exactly, I won the election so I am supposed to get my way on everything for the next four years. anything else would be un-american.

you must ignore the polls. Over 20% of the voters love me. that's a lot.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

snowbama:

Don't forget the Dems trying to change the law to replace Sen. Kennedy now that a Republican Governor is not in office ; )

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 3:00 PM
=====================================

the thing is... former Gov. Mitt Romney admitted he had been consulting white salamanders in his magic underwear. This freaked the citizens of Massachusetts and they took away his potential choice. IF, the current governor admitted to similar bizarre behavior the same criteria would apply. You may return to your upright position. Just refrain from smoking around your ammo pile.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 28, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

TED KENNEDY... ROBERT NOVAK... TIM JOHNSON... STEPHANIE TUBBS-JONES... ARLEN SPECTER... JOE BIDEN

Congress: Probe root cause of P-B-D -- "Political Brain Disorder"

nowpublic.com/world/zap-have-you-been-targeted-
directed-energy-weapon-victims-organized-
gang-stalking-say-its-happening-usa

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 28, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Poor Sarah, just can't seem to get any of this complicated stuff right:

==

That's what you get when you hire your friends from high school to do work they're not intelligent enough to pull off.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

I appreciate the ability of my base to change topics on a dime. as more and more of my ideas are falling out of favor

==

Obama's ideas falling out of favor? Only among Republicans, who are nothing more than a fringe party in the rural south, so who cares?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I appreciate the ability of my base to change topics on a dime. as more and more of my ideas are falling out of favor, this skill will be essential. I have been practicing answering questions on health care by responding on a wide range of topics.

but I thought the blog owner prohibited this mindless ranting on subjects far and wide. I guess it depends on who's posting. My plan is working. Boycott Beck!!

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

I recommend that Ms Palin consult my freind charley Rangle on how those forms are to be filled out.

Glad to be of service. now I must get back to my golf game.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

More nasty tricks by insurance companies:

"For-profit health insurance giant WellPoint fired off an email blast to its customers (using its Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield subsidiary) yesterday attacking the public option and Democratic plans for reforming health care, according to Politico’s Ben Smith. The email directs customers to its “grassroots Web site” for instructions on contacting legislators, a website ThinkProgress revealed to be run by the secretive corporate lobbying firm Democracy Data and Communications (DDC). DDC, which is operated by a former veteran of the astroturf organization now known as FreedomWorks, has helped various corporate and Republican interests shape legislation by helping to generate seemingly organic phone calls and letters to Congress.

In the letter to its customers, WellPoint makes a variety of false charges against health reform. Ironically, the attacks WellPoint makes against the public option are more appropriate criticisms of the way the private insurer does business:

1. THE LETTER STATES: Health reform will “increase the premiums of those with private coverage.”

– WELLPOINT POLICIES: In a recent giddy report about WellPoint’s expected profitability to investors, Barrons reported that WellPoint will be “hiking” premiums to at least “6% to 8% annually.” In 2006, WellPoint’s profits increased 34% as premiums and fees surged.

2. THE LETTER STATES: Health reform will cause “millions of Americans to lose their private coverage” and end up in the public option.

– WELLPOINT POLICIES: In March 2007, the state’s Department of Managed Health Care fined Blue Cross of California and its parent company, WellPoint, $1 million after an investigation revealed that the insurer routinely canceled individual health policies of pregnant women and chronically ill patients. Earlier this summer, despite promises by their lobbyists to the public, WellPoint refused to end the controversial practice of rescinding coverage after an applicant files a medical claim.

While WellPoint has been busy shedding customers and increasing premiums, AMNews reported that WellPoint has cut its medical loss ratio this year — meaning a greater percentage of every premium dollar is going to profits and overhead, rather than being spent on actual medical care."

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

the only violence we will tolerate is the violence of our doctors aimed directly at the unborn babies.

==

"Unborn baby" is not only prejudicial language, it's semantically inaccurate. At the time of abortion a fetus is usually no more a baby than a guppy is. It has no mind, it has gills, if it's even gotten that far. And it's a fetus, not a baby.

Hint, fool: if you can't make your point without incorrect language then you probably have no point. Now there's a big shock.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Poor Sarah, just can't seem to get any of this complicated stuff right:

"WASHINGTON (CNN) — Sarah Palin's political action committee violated federal election laws with two donations earlier this year and filed a mid-year report with a number of errors in it, according to the Federal Election Commission.

In a five-page letter to SarahPAC treasurer Tim Crawford, the FEC highlights a number of issues with the filed report, including donating more than is allowed to the reelection campaigns of Sens. John McCain and Lisa Murkowski, as well as not providing proper descriptions on how some of the PAC's money was spent."

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

the only violence we will tolerate is the violence of our doctors aimed directly at the unborn babies. they after all, can't fight back. this is an adversary we can handle. them and old , sick people.

No apology required.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

The demonstrations are set to culminate Saturday with so-called Truth Trucks -- delivery trucks with giant rolling billboards of dismembered fetuses on the sides

==

That has got to violate some public code. You can't put hardcore porn on billboards and they shouldn't be allowed to put medical shock-pics on the sides of trucks.

But make no mistake, OR is trying to foment another assassination.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

mteng -- it's him. as i said, it's the same racist obama hate fest, typed maniacally all day long.

==

His intent is to break up discussion here, and that's apparently A-OK with CC.

Doesn't mean we have to cooperate.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Mother Sheehan is now protesting against pResident Obama's wars (LOL!!!)

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Expect more violence:

"Anti-abortion groups, led by Operation Rescue, plan to launch protests outside Carhart's clinic this weekend in Bellevue, just south of Omaha. They will be the first major anti-abortion protests since the Tiller killing.

The demonstrations are set to culminate Saturday with so-called Truth Trucks -- delivery trucks with giant rolling billboards of dismembered fetuses on the sides -- parking outside Carhart's clinic and canvassing area neighborhoods. Protesters carrying anti-abortion signs also are expected.

"Operation Rescue has said Dr. Carhart is the next target ...," said Katherine Spillar, executive vice president with the Feminist Majority Foundation. "We fear that these kinds of activities can eventually erupt in violence, and I urge the community to make sure violence doesn't happen."

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

mteng -- it's him. as i said, it's the same racist obama hate fest, typed maniacally all day long.

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

snowbama:

Don't forget the Dems trying to change the law to replace Sen. Kennedy now that a Republican Governor is not in office ; )

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

We are beginning to try it out on blogs like this where we selectivlly eliminate any voice of reason in favor of our liberal base.

==

If your troll hadn't failed already it failed at this point.

Calling the Palin Party the party of reason is simply too absurd for your troll.

Thanks for playing. Please drive through.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Don't worry my peeps. I am working on some sneaky back-door legislation that will eliiminate all debate that is not in line with my own personal world view. We are beginning to try it out on blogs like this where we selectivlly eliminate any voice of reason in favor of our liberal base. We make attempts to appear even handed but allow our guys to return under different names.

the press is participating in its usual show of support by ignoring it. I have successfully transferred most of the power of the nation to me and two other individuals. I now own the military (cool jet huh?) the auto, insurance, banking and am hoping for medical soon. the education was always ours as was the legal and journalistic arms. We must continue to eliminate any succesful business venture by enforcing unions and cutting jobs across the nation. Taxes got my mentor Capone and it will get my enemy, wealth.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

joe: There were some jokes about Martinez wanting to court Sotomayor (pun intended), but nothing substantive about an ideological split with the party. Disappointing.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 28, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

"reason5: Thanks for the commentary. I always enjoy your take on the horseraces."

Agreed. reason5- keep up the good work.

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 28, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

drindl:

Didn't he used to be snObama or some such? This "snowbama" seems to have better grammatical skills.

Posted by: mnteng | August 28, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

I agree with your take on the Martinez resignation. The timing--one day after Sotomayor's confirmation--couldn't have been coincidental. The MSM totally missed the significance, per usual. At some point, this demographic time bomb will go off, probably in 2012 or later. And wait till the innocent kids derided as "anchor babies" start voting.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

joe -- kingofzouk. he's posted so many thousands of times on here that he's always recognizable, party through the tired racism of his posts, but also because he tends to post maniacally all day long, repeating the same mindless crap over and over.

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I wish to express my everlasting gratitude for the posters on this blog who relentlessly devour my talking points, uncritically, and post here minute by minute, toeing the liberal line. without that unflinching devotion and knee-jerk anti-intellectualism, my programs would stand no chance.

I will probably only have about 3 or 4 more months of effort before my entire momentum is dissapated. the rest of my three years will be taken up with investigations of all the corruption I have spawned. Let's get it down now while we still can. Yes we can!!

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

reason5:

Thanks for the commentary. I always enjoy your take on the horseraces.

Posted by: mnteng | August 28, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Agreed. I think the Sotomayor thing was the last straw for Martinez, and he decided to give the one-finger salute to the Republican Party, Crist included.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 28, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

GAT - when Cilizza returns and sees how the as*hat has destroyed his blog again, perhaps he will deal with it.

==

I doubt that. One the banning thread there were dozens of calls for the troll's expulsion and fewer for zouk, but it was zouk that got tossed as a thrown bone. The pivot seems to be name-calling, not trolling, not lying, not irritation, not provocation, merely name-calling.

Something tells me that CC is looking at post counts and nothing more, and drool-boi does about 30% of the posts in almost every thread. When he used to get responses (rebuttals of the lies) that pushed his "contribution" to 50% or higher.

The fact that nobody can stand him or his mocking emoticons doesn't seem to register with CC.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

excellent data, d. I had thought O had taken FL despite the aging hardcore Cubans, but it turns out they joined O-Nation as well.

Que bueno.

Is "snobama" "JakeD" under a new handle or a new troll? I noticed Jake has left.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

AndyR3 writes
"This is going to hurt Crist, period. He would have been better served by doing as they did in Deleware and pick one of Martinez's staff."

I agree. Martinez's choice to resign early, rather than serve out his term, made Crist's path to the Senate a touch more difficult. Not impossible, and he's still the favorite, but this move gives the Dems an opening they otherwise would not have.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 28, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

GAT - when Cilizza returns and sees how the as*hat has destroyed his blog again, perhaps he will deal with it.

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I was hoping he would appoint Sarah Palin. I desperately need something to take the attention off my repeated mistakes. If I can't pass any legislation before the end of the year, I may not get that next book deal. My base is really concerned with anything anti-Sarah to the effect that all else melts away. I really need a leg up on some success, anything would do right about now.

==

If you think you're clever, you're alone in that opinion.

You sound like a fourteen-year-old. Why don't you go back to whatever stormfront and boast to the gurlz with the swastika tattoos that you "brought the liberal blog to its knees"

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

And as always, please continue to accuse as racist, anyone that makes any sense, comes armed with facts or objects to any of my ideas in the least. also attempt to shut down any intelligent debate. these mobs are evil.

We must fight the war with the weapons we have and our armory is very limited these days. the american people seem to have woken up before we were able to complete our master plan. We must do for these fools what they refuse to do for themselves. I will contiune to monitor the situation from either Martha's Vinyard, Boca Raton or Aspen.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Crist is appointing his OWN crony to a seat that Crist himself is running for. If Capt. Beau Biden runs for the Delaware seat upon his return from Iraq (God willing), he still will obviously not have appointed his OWN staffer as a placeholder. The Delaware situation (assuming Beau wishes to run) involves 4 people; Florida only 2.

The appointee in Delaware was a staff member of the self-same sitting Senator, and therefore quite aware of all the various legislative activities ongoing at the time. As AndyR3 said, someone from Martinez's staff would have been a more logical choice.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 28, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

The Cuban community in Florida is no longer monolithically republican. I think a significant number were likely turned off by the Sotomeyor debacle, and 2/3 support Obama's Cuban policy:

'WASHINGTON -- A majority of Cuban Americans support President Barack Obama and back his moves to improve relations with Cuba, according to a new poll that suggests the community's staunch support for a tough U.S. stance against the Castro government may be eroding.

The survey said 64 percent of respondents favor Obama's directive to lift all restrictions on remittances and visits by Cuban Americans to family in Cuba. Twenty-seven percent of respondents said they were opposed to the measure.

''Ten years ago, you wouldn't have seen anything near these numbers. Now it's the reality of where the community is,'' said Fernand Amandi, a pollster with Miami's Bendixen & Associates, a Democratic firm that did the survey. ``It's unprecedented to suggest that the community for the first time is aligned with a Democratic president when it comes to Cuba policy.''

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

At the very least, Report Abuse, and object to the naked racism.

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

I was hoping he would appoint Sarah Palin. I desperately need something to take the attention off my repeated mistakes. If I can't pass any legislation before the end of the year, I may not get that next book deal. My base is really concerned with anything anti-Sarah to the effect that all else melts away. I really need a leg up on some success, anything would do right about now.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

The other piece of this is Rubio is Cuban and, in Florida, the Cubans were, prior to the O-era, arguably the most loyal GOP constituency

==

The violently anticommunist Miami Cubans are aging and a lot of the most vehement ones are dead or close to it. Their children have nowhere near the passion about Cuba or Communism nor any special identification with a Cuba they have never seen. That affiliation is weakening fast.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

The Troll in Chief is back, folks with his off-topic insane rants against obama. I urge you all to write to C Cilizza and complain that he is destroying the blog again.

I don't want to have to scroll through his droolings all day again.

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

I object to the naked capitalism of this Senate seat. [Bigoted junk in the middle omitted.] I intend to correct that by crediting it all to Teddy. he won't mind.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 1:57 PM
______________

"There's a fooool in every city. So there's a lot of fooools to pity." Mr. T, 2006.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

The rightwingers must loathe this guy:

"While working for Crist, LeMieux was credited with arranging Crist's proposal for the state to buy huge tracts of Everglades land from U.S. Sugar, a deal still in the process of being worked through."

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

I object to the naked capitalism of this Senate seat. the rules as I have established them require an intense bidding process for any Senate seat that comes vacant during my tenure. I am accustomed to getting at least 10 percent of the money exchanged. Rahm has the forms to fill out and the offshore account numbers for the deposit. try to stay away from Rangle for a while. He is not keeping his head down properly. all I need is another blago leak on my process.
I was going to just use ebay but my arrogance has been called out too much lately. I intend to correct that by crediting it all to Teddy. he won't mind.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

"In actuality, Leichtman made no such claim. He quoted an article's title & the author's byline together, which some people erroneously parsed as a single sentence. Had they continued to read the quoted excerpt from the article, the proper meaning would have been clear. What is perhaps most amusing is the attempt to blame their own dim-wittedness on leichtman, rather than owning up to their own mistake. That says a lot.

Posted by: bsimon1"

Ah, I wasn't sure who said what. I do know someone said something about why the hell Moroney was making the pick.

In light of going back and checking out who said it, I see why I ignored it.

Posted by: DDAWD | August 28, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Also Rubio will use this against him and if he gets enough of the Latino community to cross over he may make a fight of this yet. He will still lose, but it is possible that if Crist alienates the Latino vote too much then the Democrats might have a window to knock him off, although thats a big IF at this point.

==

It remains to be seen if ethnic loyalty to Rubio's last name will trump Rubio's party affiliation. Because Rubio is not a moderate, he's a far-right fringe guy, the same people who've been so unabashedly racist in opposing Sotomayor and fomenting racial hatred over illegal immigration.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Be sure to watch my eulogy. I intend to lionize my pal teddy, who handed me the nomination when he dissed hillary. I owe him big time. I am planning a big flowery speech full of praise for liberalism and all the elitism we over here at the vineyard thrive upon. I just hope I can make my tee time. All this health care bickering is interfering with my handicap.

Posted by: snowbama | August 28, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

LeWHO?


***


VENAL POLITICAL BLOG-SPAMMING (WA-PO, NYT, POLITICO, HUFFPOST, DAILYKOS, ETC.):

SPAWN OF A TAXPAYER-FUNDED 'PSY OP'?

TEAM OBAMA: ALERT THE DNI.

http://nowpublic.com/world/govt-fusion-center-spying-pretext-harass-and-censor

Posted by: scrivener50 | August 28, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

To our annoying nameless troll:

Nobody wants you here, everyone wants you gone, nobody can stand you, nobody believes a single solitary thing you post, nobody gives a rat's rear about your backpedaling on your foolish mistake, why don't you just take a hint and go find somewhere else to surf.

And oh, stop making a hobby of me. You gave it your best weak shot, and I'm still here, and there isn't a fücking thing you can do about it.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | August 28, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

The other piece of this is Rubio is Cuban and, in Florida, the Cubans were, prior to the O-era, arguably the most loyal GOP constituency. By not selecting a Cuban, or at least an Hispanic, Crist has guaranteed himself trouble in the primary with Rubio and will probably lose the GE.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

"This is going to hurt Crist, period. He would have been better served by doing as they did in Deleware and pick one of Martinez's staff.

Also Rubio will use this against him and if he gets enough of the Latino community to cross over he may make a fight of this yet. He will still lose, but it is possible that if Crist alienates the Latino vote too much then the Democrats might have a window to knock him off, although thats a big IF at this point.

Posted by: AndyR3 | August 28, 2009 12:47 PM"
______
I like that analysis. We're going to keep an eye on you...

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

mikeinmidland:

Biden's son, Beau, is going to run for his father's seat in the Senate. I thought you followed politics closer than this?

bsimon:

I am not mistaken; I am making fun of leitchman's mistake.

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Well, sometimes when your the front-runner to a race, a "safe" pick is the way to go. Crist choose safely. Take Barack Obama's VP pick of Biden. Biden was a safe pick. McCain's pick of Palin was outside the box, as McCain was the underdog. Crist's pick of LeMieux is a good one. LeMieux will support Crist's election to the Senate and will campaign for him actively. LeMieux will also make decisions in the senate to help Crist and more importantly, LeMieux will make voting decisions that will not hurt Crist. Make no mistake, Marco Rubio is coming hard at Crist. He will not back up one step and the polling is now with Crist leading around 48%-31%. That sounds rough, but Rubio has gained about 14 points since the last poll I saw. Crist is under 50% in some primary polls. Both Crist & Rubio are ahead of US Rep. Kendrick Meek in a GE. There goes the electability argument for Crist. Will Jeb Bush endorse Rubio? National Republicans are behind Crist. However, SC US Sentor Jim DeMint & his PAC has endorsed Rubio. Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee has endorsed Marco Rubio. If Jeb Bush actually endorses Rubio, Rubio has a great shot to knock off Crist and win the seat. However, the LeMieux pick helps Charlie Crist in the long term.

On other news, Vermont Governor Jim Douglas is retiring after serving 4 terms as Vermont Governor. Douglas said he plans to retire and is not running for any other political office. Douglas is 58 years old. Douglas is a Republican and was considered a safe bet for reelection. Lt. Gov. Brian Dubie is also a Republican serving his 4th term, I believe. Dubie is expected to step up and run for Governor...being the only other statewide Republican in the state of Vermont than Douglas. Governor & Lt. Gov. are not on the same ticket, so Dubie has actually ran a few statewide campaigns in Vermont and been elected Lt. Governor. If Dubie runs, he will be the Republican nominee and front-runner for the race. However, the democratic leanings in Vermont are very strong. A democrat will challenge Dubie and this race will likely be on the line.

Posted by: reason5 | August 28, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

A sadly misinformed poster writes:
"leichtman: Are you going to claim that Tom Moroney made this pick too? LOL!!!"


In actuality, Leichtman made no such claim. He quoted an article's title & the author's byline together, which some people erroneously parsed as a single sentence. Had they continued to read the quoted excerpt from the article, the proper meaning would have been clear. What is perhaps most amusing is the attempt to blame their own dim-wittedness on leichtman, rather than owning up to their own mistake. That says a lot.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 28, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

LeMieux is Crist's proxy, full stop.

Any vote of LeMieux, that is not in lock-step with Crist's philosophy, will reflect badly on Crist for appointing him.

Crist is a candidate for Senator. By contrast, no Democrats have announced for the Senate race in Delaware, let alone the sitting Governor.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 28, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

drindl asks
"I think he's gotta be loyal to Crist, wouldn't you say, bsmion?"


I suspect so. But I wonder how that will play out among floridians. There are some controversial votes coming up between now and next November. How will LeMieux's votes impact Crist's success in first the primary and then the general election? Will voters score Crist on LeMieux's votes, or give him a pass?

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 28, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, mikeinmidland, I agree with Mr. Cillizza's assessment (from the prior Crist thread):

"Lemieux is Crist's most loyal deputy, having served as his chief of staff in the state attorney general's office and having run Crist's campaign for governor in 2006. Lemieux was rumored as a potential candidate for the open attorney general job in 2010 but decided against a run. His pick would be reminiscent of the naming of Ted Kaufman, a longtime aide to then Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.), to fill the remainder of Biden's term when the Delaware Democrat was elected vice president."

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Oops
- never speak too soon -- shady deals abound and he won't talk about them:

Turns out LeMieux is already quite controversial within GOP circles, according to the Herald:
While LeMieux has steadily avoided discussing the clients he represented at Gunster Yoakley, he had to disclose on a Senate questionnaire last week that he had a consulting business, MTC Strategies, named after each initial of his three boys. Federal election records show he earned $150,000 in consulting fees in the past 13 months from the Republican Party of Florida.

LeMieux wouldn't discuss what he did to earn that money.

LeMieux said he's representing the Florida Department of Transportation in negotiations with Florida East Coast railroad and he's negotiating the Seminole Tribe of Florida gambling agreement on Crist's behalf for free.

But Republican operative Roger Stone, who has campaigned publicly against the choice of LeMieux for the Senate, questioned whether LeMieux was really working pro bono. Stone pointed to a Herald/Times blog report showing that 71 percent of the $912,000 the Seminoles directly gave to the Republican Party since 1996 was donated since Crist took over party fundraising after he won the 2006 Republican governor's race primary.

"The pattern of giving and the flow of money to LeMieux are deeply concerning," said Stone, who has done political work for South Florida pari-mutuels opposed to the Seminole compact. "I don't see how you can be an objective negotiator with the tribe when it appears as if he was paid by the Seminoles using RPOF as a pass through."
It's a little shady when a prominent party activist/consultant won't disclose what he does for pay. But, it's very, very shady when a U.S. Senator won't disclose it.

http://www.americablog.com/2009/08/crist-picks-former-top-aide-as-new.html

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

He sounds actually moderate:

"In 1998, LeMieux ran for the state House, pitted against four-term incumbent Democrat Tracy Stafford. According to the St. Petersburg Times, during the campaign, he went to more than 10,000 doors in a district drawn to protect a Democrat. He campaigned for better health insurance, leaner bureaucracy and smaller class sizes.

"I remember sitting in classrooms in Broward County with 40 kids in them," the Times notes he said. He also backed a $100 limit on the amount of money out-of-state companies could give to Florida candidates as a way of allowing working people to have a bigger impact in the system. Ultimately, he lost the race, but became head of the Republican Party in Broward County."

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

This is definitely more along the lines of Murkowski of Alaska, wherein the governor was clearly advancing his personal interests.

The governor of Delaware did not appoint her own lieutenant, nor is she interested in running herself in 2010.

As I noted in the other thread, making this announcement on a Friday in August, right before Ted Kennedy's funeral, is a sure way to make sure it gets the minimum scrutiny.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 28, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

LeMieux seems like he will be loyal to Crist. Which is a win for the Democrats. LeMieux acting as the Shadow Senator for the seat Crist hopes to win, he will most probably join the ranks of the few moderate Republicans left in the Senate. The best thing about it, LeMieux doesn't have to face the voters, ever.

Posted by: sjxylib | August 28, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

This is going to hurt Crist, period. He would have been better served by doing as they did in Deleware and pick one of Martinez's staff.

Also Rubio will use this against him and if he gets enough of the Latino community to cross over he may make a fight of this yet. He will still lose, but it is possible that if Crist alienates the Latino vote too much then the Democrats might have a window to knock him off, although thats a big IF at this point.

Posted by: AndyR3 | August 28, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

I think he's gotta be loyal to Crist, wouldn't you say, bsmion?

Posted by: drindl | August 28, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

From the Fix archives...Hall of Fame troll, 37thandO:

"To the poster at 10:00

Until I get some reinforcements around here, I have to shoot in all direction at once.


In contrast, I attempt to limit my remarks to defense - when someone attacks me personally, I respond.


Attacks will not go without a response.


And where is that birth certificate?


And on which country's passport did Obama travel in 1981???


.

.

.

Posted by: 37thandORules | December 15, 2008 10:17 AM"

_____________

Oh we forgot to mention: Palin in 2012.


Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Was Kenny Chesney not available? :)

Posted by: broadwayjoe | August 28, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Or Senator Murkowski of Alaska, run for Governor while Senator, take the oath and appoint daughter Senator. In a one-party state you can do whatever you want. Democracy is only a leading light when lead by bright bulbs.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 28, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

jckdoors:

Did you also think it "cynical" when then-Delaware Gov. Ruth Ann Minner (D) picked Ted Kaufman, also a close aide to Biden in the Senate, who has no interest in serving beyond 2010 when Biden's son, Beau, is expected to run? Just want to see how consistent your outrage is.

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

I'm curious to hear how this will play among floridians. Will they care? When it comes to voting, will Lemieux be loyal to Crist, or to the party?

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 28, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

If the Base was up to something... surely we would know. Last time there was this file on the National Security Advisor's desk with the objective as part of the title. But Condy had a piano recital and could not be bothered. The Clinton carry over was desperately trying to get a meeting with his hair on fire... there were several agents in Minnesota that couldn't get an email to D.C.. My point is... the Base declared war... said what they were going to do and did it. They said they did it to kill us economically and draw us into their part of the world. Again, you can attempt to scare us with your Orange code allusions but you have no credibility. The Base does not scare me, you scare me when using the Base to try and scare me.

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 28, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

The Fix comes through!

Posted by: bsimon1 | August 28, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

leichtman:

Are you going to claim that Tom Moroney made this pick too? LOL!!!

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

A very cynical move to make. That seat will be very warm when Crist takes it next election.

Posted by: jckdoors | August 28, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

wow, and he didn't try to regale us with vacation snaps from little baby and wife...

Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | August 28, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

No "Live Fix" today? Lemieux was a good choice, but the focus has shifted to Boston right now. Poor pResident Obama has to cut his "vacation" short to return for Teddy's funeral. I wonder, with all of these distractions, what if al Qaeda is planning something big this month to top eight years ago?

Posted by: JakeD | August 28, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

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