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Rand Paul and the Washington "machine"

Candidates from across the country are running against Washington these days but none so aggressively -- or effectively -- as ophthalmologist Rand Paul.

Paul's latest anti-Washington volley comes in the form of an ad portraying the nation's capitol as a multi-armed monster seeking to consume private industry. (The cartoon image resembles nothing more than Doctor Octopus -- "Doc Ock" -- from the "Spiderman" series. And, yes, we are aware of how dorky making that comparison is.)

"Big government is extending its grasp, scooping up Wall Street banks and business....our health care," says the ad's narrator.

The commercial goes on to tie Secretary of State Trey Grayson, Paul's opponent in the May 18 Republican primary, as part of the problem -- noting that Grayson raised money with AIG executives in Washington. "With Grayson in Washington where will it end," the narrator asks.

Anger directed at the federal government at the moment is at historic levels, according to a February poll conducted by the Washington Post and ABC News. Asked to describe how they felt toward the federal government, 32 percent offered a positive feeling ("enthusiastic" or "satisfied") while 67 percent reacted negatively ("dissatisfied" or "angry"). Roughly one in five said they felt angry -- the highest percentage of people expressing that sentiment in Post/ABC polling since 1994. (And we all know what happened in that election.)

The strong anti-Washington strain in Paul's campaign message -- coupled with the support he has drawn from the Tea Party crowd -- make his primary race against Grayson one that could have significant echoes in the political world moving forward.

A Paul win would function as a direct repudiation of Republican leadership in Washington -- Grayson is seen as the handpicked choice of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell although McConnell hasn't formally endorsed in the contest -- and would quantify just how much power the anti-Washington/Tea Party/Libertarian wing of the party carries.

By Chris Cillizza  |  April 6, 2010; 3:39 PM ET
Categories:  Senate  
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Comments

Strange that the only "party" that has a credible message on fiscal and governmental responsibility is labeled as extreme by so many people. The Tea Party's message is responsibility, something that the Dems eschew and the GOP only pays lip service to. We need more candidates like Dr. Paul who reject foreign adventurism because we can't afford it, and not because they hate America. We need more Tea Party candidates that don't get bogged down in social issues, which by and large are none of the federal government's business. Except for its unrealistic goal of cutting taxes, the Tea Party is firmly in the center politically.

Posted by: Steve851 | April 11, 2010 7:36 AM | Report abuse

Blacks have killed more people in the past week than all the tea party movement - zero.

There have been shootings in Chicago, New York and Washington - just in the past week.

Your comments are bigoted - you are the racist - and you are the one making inflamatory statements.

You are a joke.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 7, 2010 12:42 AM | Report abuse

really? this is the argument you're going with? Hey, whatever they (we?) may be, at least it's not a violent street gang! that's what you're going with? for real? that's the best you have? Hey, at least we're not the Crips?

Posted by: joshuaostevens | April 7, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

I've just read this interesting and heated exchange of views. I didn't see anything new here, however. Matter of fact, you could replace the names of the principal actors with those of Abraham Lincoln and his opponents and read the same verbiage in the 1860 Washington newspaper of record. What I pray for is a peaceful and amicable solution to the entire political debacle we see today. However, should matters turn violent, remember that GARDENPLOT(U) and it's successor OPLANS are still on hand. And unlike so many others who have posted here, I sign with my real name. I'm Dave Mann and I wrote this.

Posted by: DaveMann37027 | April 7, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

The son of a washington congressman is running as an outsider- how funny is that?

Posted by: newagent99 | April 7, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

What an absolute piece of sh|t this blog has turned into.

Anyone calling the tea baggers a legitimate political movement should be arrested and committed by the court to a mental institution. These aren't libertarians, they're not populists, they're terrorists trying to workup the nerve to go for it and kilo someone. Eventually they will. What will you have to say then, Chris?

That racism is a legitimate political force too?

It'd barely be out of place here.

The Fix: right wing bigots can feel right at home.

Wondering why I post here.

Posted by: Noacoler | April 7, 2010 4:29 AM | Report abuse

Chris:


This posting is not hateful and inflamatory?


__________________________________


Bottom line: the baggers are a frightening "Perfect Storm." A convergence of our country's most dangerous and sociopathic bigots in a way that happens once every fifty years. A kind of racist Dream Team. I know the ADL and Morris Dees keep track of these lunatics but a strong law enforcement effort is mandatory if tragedy is to be averted.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | April 6, 2010 10:10 PM

_____________________________________

The problem is - with postings like this - and there is a gang of these people on here who are working together - and each using multiple screen names -


The problem is with postings like this - these postings get responded to with equal venom.


No matter how much people try to reason with these people - they have continued to harass other posters - and drag down the entire discussion.

This has been going on for at least 2 years now.

Once postings like this one is allowed - then everyone else feels the green-light to go just as bad - all restraint is disgarded.


All inclinations of posters toward restraint become useless.

Well the first objective of these Obama people is to intimidate other posters into not posting anymore.


They are seeking to completely dominate and control the conversation - and it is just here, it is all over the place on many different forums.

That is why they are so angry at the Tea Party Movement - they are giving a set of ideas which the Obama people want to stop.

And they are trying to intimidate them by calling them a bunch of racists -

This is not new - in early 2008 - the Obama did this in South Carolina with Bill Clinton and with Gerry Ferraro -


The Obama people were SEEKING to create a racial controversy.


These tactics are not right - and yes, they are inflaming the situation and the atmosphere is getting ugly.


But make no mistake, it is the Obama people who are getting really really ugly - and causing the confrontations.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | April 7, 2010 1:07 AM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


The only thing that is of concern is your thinking appears to also be at the center of the Obama administration.

No one in the country agrees with you.

Even the news media is slowing getting it: the administration is increasingly being called "delusional" and "out-of-touch."

Take the health care debate - no other administration in the history of the country would risk being so against what the country clearly wants.


No other administration would take the political risks of so many people in your party losing the next election.

If you are just looking at the seats in Congress, you have made a serious mistake - there are thousands of downticket races this year which the democrats ARE going to lose.

It's not just WHAT the administration is doing - it is how they are talking.

Something is way, way off.


There is excessive ego, there is excessive arrogance - there is a sense that they are always telling us that something is getting "transformed" by someone who is so smart - and the whole thing is really getting really messed up.


The way you talk about the opposition party is way out line -

It is amazing, because you claim you are so against racism, but you are racist against the tea party movement.

You claimed to not be sexist, but the sexism launched on Sarah Palin was out of control.

Your crew is so convinced that you are better than anyone else, you don't realize that you are really worse.


You aren't better, and your arrogance makes you ugly.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | April 7, 2010 12:55 AM | Report abuse


Bottom line: the baggers are a frightening "Perfect Storm." A convergence of our country's most dangerous and sociopathic bigots in a way that happens once every fifty years. A kind of racist Dream Team. I know the ADL and Morris Dees keep track of these lunatics but a strong law enforcement effort is mandatory if tragedy is to be averted.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | April 6, 2010 10:10 PM

_________________________________


Blacks have killed more people in the past week than all the tea party movement - zero.

There have been shootings in Chicago, New York and Washington - just in the past week.

Your comments are bigoted - you are the racist - and you are the one making inflamatory statements.

You are a joke.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 7, 2010 12:42 AM | Report abuse


Bottom line: the baggers are a frightening "Perfect Storm." A convergence of our country's most dangerous and sociopathic bigots in a way that happens once every fifty years. A kind of racist Dream Team. I know the ADL and Morris Dees keep track of these lunatics but a strong law enforcement effort is mandatory if tragedy is to be averted.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | April 6, 2010 10:10 PM

_________________________________


Blacks have killed more people in the past week than all the tea party movement - zero.

There have been shootings in Chicago, New York and Washington - just in the past week.

Your comments are bigoted - you are the racist - and you are the one making inflamatory statements.

You are a joke.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 7, 2010 12:42 AM | Report abuse

Broadwayjoe @your post at 10:42


You are one of the lunatics - you hate the tea party movement - you use slurs to refer to them on a daily basis.


You are intolerant of their views.


What is worse is your are so intolerant, you really do not believe they should have First Amendment rights - you would prefer if they were INTIMIDATED AND SILENCED.

Sounds more like todays version of the KKK - maybe you can refer to you and your pals as the OOO.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 7, 2010 12:37 AM | Report abuse

d, I agree. They are lunatics who have overdosed on haterade. They literally live...to hate other people. Sad that every time more than five of them show up anywhere, the media gives them wall to wall coverage.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | April 6, 2010 10:42 PM | Report abuse

I don't think what really unites the Teabaggers is racism -- that's only an element of it. The common element is just hatred of Democrats -- after all, Patty Murray is white and they want to see her 'get hung.'

"Well, the Tea Party folks held a "Take Back America!" rally last weekend in Asotin, Washington. Stephanie Smith of KLEW-TV in Lewiston, Idaho, was there and filed this report:

[This was in direct reference to Murray's vote on HCR:]

"How many of you have watched the movie Lonesome Dove?," asked one speaker from the podium. "What happened to Jake when he ran with the wrong crowd? What happened to Jake when he ran with the wrong crowd. He got hung. And that's what I want to do with Patty Murray."

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/tea-party-speaker-wants-sen-patty-mu

Watch the video -- see how the crowd cheers when the speaker says she wants to see patty murray hanged.

And then the rhetoric of the guy arrested for threatening Murray's life:

'SEATTLE -- A Washington state man has been charged with threatening to kill Democratic Sen. Patty Murray over her support for health care reform, leaving voicemail messages at her office saying she had a target on her back and "it only takes one piece of lead."
...

Wilson has a .38-caliber revolver registered to him and has a concealed carry permit for it, Woodbury wrote.

According to an excerpt of the conversation, Wilson confirmed he repeatedly called Murray as well as Washington's other Democratic senator, Maria Cantwell. He then stated: "I do pack, and I will not blink when I'm confronted. ... It's not a threat, it's a guarantee."

"There’s a target on your back now," said one message on March 22. "It only takes one piece of lead. Kill the (expletive) senator! ... Now that you’ve passed your health-care bill, let the violence begin."

In other messages over the next several days, the caller said, "I hope somebody puts a (expletive) bullet between your (expletive) eyes," and "I do believe that every one of you (expletive) socialist democratic progressive (expletives) need to be taken out."

And, he said, "I want to (expletive) kill you."

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/west/view/20100406us_man_charged_with_threatening_sen_patty_murray/

How far do you think it might be between Yakima, WA, the home of the would-be assassin, and Asota, WA?

Do you think there might be a causal relationship between inflammatory lynch mob Tea Party rhetoric [and peer group approval] and someone in the audience deciding to act on it? I'm just saying.


Posted by: drindl | April 6, 2010 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Totally cosign, 12.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | April 6, 2010 10:29 PM | Report abuse

@broadway joe,

What do you think the odds are that the FBI are surveilling the Tea Party demonstrations and watching the web sites. Since it seems to be semi legal (post Bush admin) to tap citizens phones, I suppose that's being done also.
There are a lot of dots that would look obvious in an after-incident analysis, like soaring sales of guns and ammo and now threatening letters/calls/emails to governors and other politicians. It would be a nightmare for the FBI if something happens and they didn't have some surveillance going.

Here in sleepy and liberal Northern California, the open carry crowd has suddenly decided that NOW is the time to make their case and are busy visiting Starbucks for a Lugar and latte (Peet's has banned them).

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Bottom line: the baggers are a frightening "Perfect Storm." A convergence of our country's most dangerous and sociopathic bigots in a way that happens once every fifty years. A kind of racist Dream Team. I know the ADL and Morris Dees keep track of these lunatics but a strong law enforcement effort is mandatory if tragedy is to be averted.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | April 6, 2010 10:10 PM | Report abuse

We're with Colby, Frank Rich, Gene Robinson, and Janeane Garofalo on this one.

The baggers are just the old Klan/White Citizens' Council crowd with a new media friendly moniker, "Tea Baggers." It's the same racial slurs, same anger, same guns, same spit, same pathology -- only their handle is different. The legit journalists have confirmed this bunch has pulled together some of the most dangerous white nationalists, white supremacists, secessionists, militia lunatics, and mental cases in the United States.

Let's hope Janet N. and her DHS are all over this...

Posted by: broadwayjoe | April 6, 2010 10:00 PM | Report abuse

12BB, I never said they were. But I don't believe that the Tea Party is a group of people joined together by racism. Seems that many liberals on this blog want to think that.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | April 6, 2010 9:32 PM
-------------------------------------
Nor do I think that. It really won't matter what liberals say about the Tea Party. It's what the Tea Party says about itself.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

37th wrote: 12BarBlues


Sure seems like many blacks made their choice for President based NOT on an evaluation of the candidate - but based on the color of his skin.
-----------------------------------
So, what's your point?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Whoever one thinks the Tea Partiers are, one thing is clear--it only matters what they APPEAR to be. Most Americans don't know squat what the T-ppl are about, so their opinions are being formed every day. Every video showing "niggar", "geld Obama" the famous "If Brown can't stop it, a Browning can", "Guns Tomorrow", and "Obama was not bowing...he was sucking Saudi jewels" signs help form opinions. Every call for hanging helps form opinions. Drindl has a good point about the lack of "positive" messages. I can't remember any (and I'm willing to give the T-ppl the benefit of the doubt).

Once enough of those racist and threatening messages get out, Americans will have formed their opinions and I don't think it will be a positive one. The Tea Partiers may have democratically allowed all sorts of strange characters into their tent, but in the end, the whole movement will just be seen as strange.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 9:46 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Sure seems like many blacks made their choice for President based NOT on an evaluation of the candidate - but based on the color of his skin.

If whites did that, it would be called racist.


If whites voted 96% one way based on race, the liberals would be screaming.

.

.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | April 6, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

Come on Suzy, it's simply not credible to maintain that blacks are clamoring to join the T-people.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 9:11 PM


12BB, I never said they were. But I don't believe that the Tea Party is a group of people joined together by racism. Seems that many liberals on this blog want to think that.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | April 6, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Derek Jeter is so damned good.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | April 6, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Tea bagger slogan: "If Brown can't stop it, a Browning can."

These baggers are the very definition of domestic terrorists. To suggest they are libertarians or populists is BroderWorld bunk. We hope someone is tracking these sociopaths.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | April 6, 2010 9:16 PM | Report abuse

@Suzy,

I've been to this web site even before you recommended it. Look at it from a tops down view--nationwide, 96% of blacks voted for Obama. That leaves 4% who MIGHT have voted Republican. Even if every one of them got on buses and made it to the Tea Parties and stood in the front row, that would still be a very small number. Come on Suzy, it's simply not credible to maintain that blacks are clamoring to join the T-people.

Understand that I am not putting down black conservatives. I respect their courage. If I invited myself to one of their meetings, I'm sure they would be the nicest ten people I ever met.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Talking about the Tea Party is not talking about black Republicans. Barely an intersection in those two groups, would you say?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 8:45 PM

"Black Conservatives Take Lead Role in Tea Party Movement" by Judson Berger explains how, although the tea party movement has attracted criticism for its supposed lack of diversity, minority activists who are involved say the movement has little to do with race, and that it is attracting a more diverse crowd every day."

I would say there is an intersection. Go to the site I mentioned and see. How about this black female at a Tea Party rally? Would you ever see her picture on the news?

http://cache.trustedpartner.com/images/library/NationalBlackRepublicanAssociation2009/Tea%20Party%20-%20Frances%20Rice%20web.jpg

Posted by: SuzyCcup | April 6, 2010 9:03 PM | Report abuse


Paul is running for the Senate seat in Kentucky.
_______________________


Every Damn Election Cycle You have these Politicians, Who say their Against Washington the Big Bad, Mean Ole [Federal Government], Yet they would Cut Off their [Private Parts] to be a Part of Washington DC and All that Comes along with being in Washington DC, The Salary, The Benefits, The Power, The Affluence, The Influence and Prestige that comes along with being in Washington DC.

But to get to Washington DC, they Must Disparage-Disrespect Washington DC as Corrupt and in Need of Major Change, Knowing they cannot Deliver on such Campaign Promises.

Look at Scott Brown.

Look Clearly at Rand Paul,

This Person, Rand Paul is the Son of a Career Politician, Ron Paul.

That's Telling.

There is No Change in having Rand Paul in Government as a Senator only in Continuing the [Exclusive Good Ole Fraternity Club] of having Politician [Family-Offspring] Receive their Inheritance.

The Paul Family Lives On, just like the Kennedy Family.


Rand Paul, will be Getting his Entitlement, Great Job Ron Paul and to those that Truly Control Whose In and Whose Out in Washington DC.

Posted by: omaarsblade | April 6, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

How come no mention of "libertarianism" or "anti-government" or any of the other cover issues that their media sympathizers claim the baggers are about? Their now famous banner tells us all we need to know about their, uh, cause.

Here's Tea Bag founder and pResident, Dale Robertson, standing proudly with his... n-word sign.

http://washingtonindependent.com/73036/n-word-sign-dogs-would-be-tea-party-leader

Don't think the baggers are much into diversity.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | April 6, 2010 8:57 PM | Report abuse

'I can't say that I remember any constructive messages, but the "niggar" and "geld Obama" signs, and talk about hanging, kind of overwhelm one's memory of anything else. I'm from a rural state (not Washington, but close), and somehow, I'd like to think that these are the decent and traditional folks I remember.

But, I do admit, I don't think the folks I knew would have much to do with overt racism. I hope I'm right. '

I hope you are too, 12Bar. We want to believe in our better angels.

Posted by: drindl | April 6, 2010 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Great article on how racist the democrats are towards black conservatives


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9ETR1380&show_article=1

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Posted by: 37thand0street | April 6, 2010 8:47 PM | Report abuse

Great article on how racist the democrats are towards black conservatives


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9ETR1380&show_article=1

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Posted by: 37thand0street | April 6, 2010 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Great article on how racist the democrats are towards black conservatives


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9ETR1380&show_article=1

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.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | April 6, 2010 8:45 PM | Report abuse

Suzy wrote Maybe you can meet some at the site below. Republicans at that! They even have constructive messages.
-------------------------------
I lived a very sheltered life as a kid.

There are a few, very few, black Republicans, and I'm sure they have a lot of moral backbone to be Republican. I'll bet they take a lot of grief.

Talking about the Tea Party is not talking about black Republicans. Barely an intersection in those two groups, would you say?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 8:45 PM | Report abuse

'I can't say that I remember any constructive messages, but the "niggar" and "geld Obama" signs, and talk about hanging, kind of overwhelm one's memory of anything else. I'm from a rural state (not Washington, but close), and somehow, I'd like to think that these are the decent and traditional folks I remember.

But, I do admit, I don't think the folks I knew would have much to do with overt racism. I hope I'm right. '

I hope you are too, 12Bar. We want to believe in our better angels.

Posted by: drindl | April 6, 2010 8:44 PM | Report abuse

I can't say that I remember any constructive messages.... I never knew a black person, and only saw one, until I was 20 years old.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 8:22 PM


Maybe you can meet some at the site below. Republicans at that! They even have constructive messages.

http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.main&tp_preview=true&x=4518798

Posted by: SuzyCcup | April 6, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse

"Mr Cillizza writes, "A Paul win would function as a direct repudiation of Republican leadership in Washington -- Grayson is seen as the handpicked choice of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell..."


'Rand Paul is doing well because of all the small donations from (Tea Party) people around the country like me. Rubio is another example. We couldn't care less who McConnell picked or what McConnell says."

I say, go for it.

Posted by: drindl | April 6, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Poor empty life dribbl. Ranting and raving day and night. No sense in sight.

Dear, do you get your hair cut at the veteranarian? Got to be the most unseemly looking hack job ever seen. I hope you didn't pay more than six bucks.

Posted by: Moonbat | April 6, 2010 8:27 PM | Report abuse

drindl wrote: Well, it's hard to say what the 'fringe' is, isn't it? What if most of them are 'the fringe'?

Sure, the most sensational stuff gets the attention, but if there is any positive message among them, surely some of that would get out somehow... have you seen any?
---------------------------------
I can't say that I remember any constructive messages, but the "niggar" and "geld Obama" signs, and talk about hanging, kind of overwhelm one's memory of anything else. I'm from a rural state (not Washington, but close), and somehow, I'd like to think that these are the decent and traditional folks I remember.

I never knew a black person, and only saw one, until I was 20 years old. I doubt much has changed in the intermountain states since.

But, I do admit, I don't think the folks I knew would have much to do with overt racism. I hope I'm right.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

Paul is running for the Senate seat in Kentucky. (Chris Hall/Freelance)

Every Damn Election Cycle You have these Politicians, Who say their Against Washington the Big Bad, Mean Ole [Federal Government], Yet they would Cut Off their [Private Parts] to be a Part of Washington DC and All that Comes along with being in Washington DC, The Salary, The Benefits, The Power, The Affluence, The Influence and Prestige that comes along with being in Washington DC.

But to get to Washington DC, they Must Disparage-Disrespect Washington DC as Corrupt and in Need of Major Change, Knowing they cannot Deliver on such Campaign Promises.

Look at Scott Brown.

Look Clearly at Rand Paul,

This Person, Rand Paul is the Son of a Career Politician, Ron Paul.

That's Telling.

There is No Change in having Rand Paul in Government as a Senator only in Continuing the [Exclusive Good Ole Fraternity Club] of having Politician [Family-Offspring] Receive their Inheritance.

The Paul Family Lives On, just like the Kennedy Family.


Rand Paul, will be Getting his Entitlement, Great Job Ron Paul and to those that Truly Control Whose In and Whose Out in Washington DC.

Posted by: omaarsblade | April 6, 2010 8:21 PM | Report abuse

"[T]he anti-Washington/Tea Party/Libertarian wing..." What the _____?????

Fix meet Colby. Colby, this is Fix. He works with you at the Post. Fix has some "issues." Mr. King, would you school Fix about the tea baggers:

"Fast-forward to today. Note the pro-Tea Party conservative commentary debunking last weekend's racist and homophobic slurs as a work of fiction and exaggeration strictly for political reasons. Noticeable, too, is the influence of George Wallace, Limbaugh, Beck and their followers on outcomes.

The angry '50s and '60s crowds threatened and intimidated; some among them even murdered. That notwithstanding, Americans of goodwill gathered in the White House to witness the signing of landmark civil rights laws.

Schoolhouse doors were blocked, and little children were demeaned. Yet the bigots didn't get the last word. Justice rolled down like a mighty river, sweeping them aside.


They insulted, abused, lied and vandalized. Still, President Obama fulfilled his promise to sign historic health-care reform into law by the end of his first term.

Those angry faces won't go away. But neither can they stand in the way of progress.

The mobs of yesteryear were on the wrong side of history. Tea Party supporters and their right-wing fellow travelers are on the wrong side now. It shows up in their faces."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/26/AR2010032603335_2.html?sid=ST2010032603551
_________

Mr. King, your Pulitzer is on its way. All the best.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | April 6, 2010 8:18 PM | Report abuse

" I could go on - but I suspect you know this part of the history too and were cherry picking to make your point. Posted by: mark_in_austin"

Yeah, it should have been 19th but when I went back and looked that 10th was so much more satirical.

While the Grange Movement was a part of the progressive are, it was just a part. IT was more effective that many of the many parts, and together they actually made things better, but they also gave us WJB, and him we might have done better with less oratorical and more thoughtful leaders. While he was reprising his Cross of Gold Speech nationwide, McKinley was sitting on his porch most carefully not agreeing with him, even though McKinley, Hannah, and Sherman were bigger free silver men than Bryan. Bryan played to populist anger and McKinley played around the hard money men. Guess who really won. (Hint, you can still find silver certificates out there, although you can't redeem them. My Grandfather kept two goldbacks on a coffee table under glass in the fifties. Couldn't redeem them, either.

The REAL progressives were distributed among the Dems and the Republicans, and for a few years the republican Progressives controlled the party, but eventually the Hard Money Men took over and gave us the Modern Republican Party.

And the Progressives took their money and went home.

Posted by: ceflynline | April 6, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Mr Cillizza writes, "A Paul win would function as a direct repudiation of Republican leadership in Washington -- Grayson is seen as the handpicked choice of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell..."


Rand Paul is doing well because of all the small donations from (Tea Party) people around the country like me. Rubio is another example. We couldn't care less who McConnell picked or what McConnell says. We want the obama policies stopped so this country can get back on track. Rand and Rubio are people I trust will help do that.

Posted by: SuzyCcup | April 6, 2010 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Every Damn Election Cycle You have these Politicians, Who say their Against Washington the Big Bad, Mean Ole [Federal Government], Yet they would Cut Off their [Private Parts] to be a Part of Washington DC and All that Comes along with being in Washington DC, The Salary, The Benefits, The Power, The Affluence, The Influence and Prestige that comes along with being in Washington DC.

Yet to get to Washington DC, they Must Disparage Washington as Corrupt and in Need of Major Change, Knowing they cannot Deliver on such Campaign Promises.

Look at Scott Brown.

Look Clearly at Rand Paul, is such a Person, Rand Paul is the Son of a career Politician, Ron Paul.

That's Telling.

There is No Change in having Rand Paul in Government as a Senator only in Continuing the [Exclusive Good Ole Fraternity Club] of having Politician [Family-Offspring] The Paul Family Lives On, like the Kennedy Family.

This is Rand Paul, Getting his Entitlement, Great Job Ron Paul and those that truly Control Whose In and Whose Out in Washington DC.

Posted by: omaarsblade | April 6, 2010 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Rasmussen -- ROFLOL.

The biggest inside joke in politics.

Posted by: drindl | April 6, 2010 8:07 PM | Report abuse

Not buying into these polls anymore unless they show me their methodology and sampling.

A poster said the Post recently did a poll suggesting people had concerns about the HCR. Problem is the sampling was a tad...skewed. Only 1000 folks were contacted, probably land phones. The sampling was all white and almost everyone self-identified as "conservative" (translation: tea bagger). So the "poll" shows they have issues with Obamacare--SURPRISE! What a shock! LOL.
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Looking at this free political advertisement for candidate Rand Paul, I wonder, how come no mention of his Dad Ron and the Ron Paul Newsletter that more fully explains what the codeword -- "antigovernment" -- means?

This excerpt from the Paul Newsletter spells it out for us:

"Regardless of what the media tell us, most white Americans are not going to believe that they are at fault for what blacks have done to cities across America. The professional blacks may have cowed the elites, but good sense survives at the grass roots. Many more are going to have difficultly avoiding the belief that our country is being destroyed by a group of actual and potential terrorists -- and they can be identified by the color of their skin. This conclusion may not be entirely fair, but it is, for many, entirely unavoidable.

Indeed, it is shocking to consider the uniformity of opinion among blacks in this country. Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty, and the end of welfare and affirmative action.... Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the "criminal justice system," I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/15/124912/740/584/335036

Thanks for the, er, knowledge, Ron P. ... The Paul legacy continues... :(

Posted by: broadwayjoe | April 6, 2010 8:04 PM | Report abuse

I'm still one who holds to the idea that not all T-people are racist, but that racists at the fringe have seized control of their message and the media.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 7:36 PM

The latest Rasmussen poll found that "48% of voters say that the average Tea Party member is closer to their views than President Barack Obama. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 44% hold the opposite view and believe the president’s views are closer to their own."

There may be fringe people in the Tea Party just as there are fringe people like Bill Ayers in the democratic arena, but the fringe has not seized anything. The Tea Party, as shown by the Rasmussen poll, are regular Americans like me who are clearly against obama's destructive policies. What's racism got to do with that?

Posted by: SuzyCcup | April 6, 2010 8:02 PM | Report abuse

'I'm still one who holds to the idea that not all T-people are racist, but that racists at the fringe have seized control of their message'

Well, it's hard to say what the 'fringe' is, isn't it? What if most of them are 'the fringe'?

Sure, the most sensational stuff gets the attention, but if there is any positive message among them, surely some of that would get out somehow... have you seen any?

Most of the media [check the WaPo] have been more than kind to them... but have you seen any positive messages there either? No, it's just all anti-Obama and 'big government' tirades, whatever than means, by people on Social Security... incoherent.

And this...

'What happened to Jake when he ran with the wrong crowd? What happened to Jake when he ran with the wrong crowd. He got hung. And that's what I want to do with Patty Murray."

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/tea-party-speaker-wants-sen-patty-mu'

was in Washington state last week. I don't know how far From Yakima, WA, the town of the would-be assassin of Patty Murray is,but that guy could have been at this rally.

And it does kinda sound like a lynch mob, doesn't it?

Posted by: drindl | April 6, 2010 8:01 PM | Report abuse

@drindl,

The more the Tea Partiers are filmed, the more obvious it becomes what their most fundamental issue is. The hanging comment (and applause) was telling as well as the sign to "geld Obama". And many of these people probably don't even know, at a conscious level, that they are following the traditional method to terrorize blacks.

I'm still one who holds to the idea that not all T-people are racist, but that racists at the fringe have seized control of their message and the media.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Great article on how racist the democrats are towards black conservatives

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9ETR1380&show_article=1


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Posted by: 37thand0street | April 6, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

"Well, the Tea Party folks held a "Take Back America!" rally last weekend in Asotin, Washington, which is in the far eastern reaches of the state. Stephanie Smith of KLEW-TV in Lewiston, Idaho, was there and filed this report:

"How many of you have watched the movie Lonesome Dove?," asked one speaker from the podium. "What happened to Jake when he ran with the wrong crowd? What happened to Jake when he ran with the wrong crowd. He got hung. And that's what I want to do with Patty Murray."

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/tea-party-speaker-wants-sen-patty-mu

Watch the video, mark -- see how the crowd cheers when the speaker says she wants to see patty murray hang.

Posted by: drindl | April 6, 2010 7:21 PM | Report abuse

So who are the bad guys ?

What you have is people who caused ALL the trouble - now running around pointing fingers at EVERYONE ELSE.
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It just doesn't seem fair, does it. All those pointing fingers...and them with the pointed fingers causing all the trouble...and them that caused all the trouble running around...and all the time the Republicans were the good guys. Who woulda thought?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 7:16 PM | Report abuse

NEWS ALERT


A Black Congressman finally got someone to call his answering machine and say bad words - not that any Congressman listens to any of the messages left by anyone has not contributed large amounts of campaign cash.

NBC is now playing the message - in some attempt to smear 50 million people who protest Obama.


No word yet as to whether the answering machine message is real or now - but the caller did sound black.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | April 6, 2010 7:16 PM | Report abuse

Paul is the king of medicare in his part of the state. Should be an interesting fall election.

A victory for Paul would be a defeat for McConnell and also the entire state.

The man is an idiot.

Posted by: COWENS99 | April 6, 2010 7:06 PM | Report abuse

The truth is that democrats love to walk around and claim credit for Civil Rights.


But that is not the real story.


The story is the Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act in 1875.

It was the democrats who REPEALED that Act, and then spend 80 years terrorizing blacks, aligning themselves with the KKK and hanging blacks from trees.

It was the democrats who were behind the Jim Crow laws - and the Dred Scott decision as well.

So who are the bad guys ?

What you have is people who caused ALL the trouble - now running around pointing fingers at EVERYONE ELSE.

What is the real racism - the Jim Crow laws and aligning with the KKK - or anything that has happened since the 1970s ???

This is why the democrats are so TWISTED IN THEIR LIES THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | April 6, 2010 6:58 PM | Report abuse

"Where does Rand Paul stand? Where do the TEA people stand? This is relevant to KY.

Drindl, that crazed stalker might call himself a TEA person, or he might not. You cannot rationally indict TEA symps on the actions of even a hundred crazies. That would be like indicting the RCC for - oh, bad analogy...:-)"

If you can't indict them on what they say or do, what else is there? i have followed this closely, I have not seen much actual 'populism'--just irrational anger.

From Michelle Malkin's blog' -- one of the most predictably nasty and popular voices of the tea party:

‘Bambi will use this as an example of why he wants to shut down the coal industry and push his green agenda.'

From Redstate -- probably the most popular bagger supporters and winger site -- no mention of the tragedy. Lead:

'Peddling Pacifism In A Violent World: Obama Takes The Ultimate Bow'

I dare you, mark -- find a single bagger who condemns Blankenship.

Btw, Redstate features exactly the same lead as CC -- along with link to Paul's spot. There's really no air between them.

How do you define whether someone is a bagger? How different is this from Mr. Democrap Socialst's rhetoric? They are kindred spirits:


"In other messages over the next several days, the caller said, "I hope somebody puts a (expletive) bullet between your (expletive) eyes," and "I do believe that every one of you (expletive) socialist democratic progressive (expletives) need to be taken out."

Posted by: drindl | April 6, 2010 6:50 PM | Report abuse

mark_in_austin


To be honest I do not know how many miners in Kentucky vote that way or this way.


My point was that the democrats have been in control of the State Government in West Virginia - so the democrats have some responsibility in this situation.


To be honest, I do not know what the split is between federal and state powers in mine safety.

Yea, well I have to agree that there should be indictments for manslaughter if these mine violations are excessive and way out of line with industry standards.

They said there were 27 pages of violations at this mine - but I have no way to evaluate whether those were minor violations or major - and whether they involved life-threatening items.


If they did, and a disaster happened, it should be manslaughter.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | April 6, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

ceflyline, I am sure you meant 19th C. and will go with that. There was a rational core to the populist movement of 1890. It was led by the Grange League Federation, of which I was a member as a farmboy. It's anger was directed first at the RRs, which set fires across the plains as sparks jumped from the rails, and nobody had the guts to regulate them. They opened the courthouse door to business tort liability and the ancestor to product liability. They demanded elected and not appointed judges, and then that made sense. It marked the rise of the judiciary in the absence of state or federal regulatory power and the presence of the rail monopolists in the legislatures' galleries. I could go on - but I suspect you know this part of the history too and were cherry picking to make your point.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | April 6, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Drindl - better false analogy for comparison. 90% of blacks vote D. 26% of violent crime is committed by blacks. Therefore, when Blacks commit violent crime it is the fault of Ds. :-)

Posted by: mark_in_austin | April 6, 2010 6:31 PM | Report abuse

StreetCorner, would you assume with me that 1/3 of miners in KY vote R? If you would assume that, this issue will have traction for mine related families - KY has mines. From WKYT -

Kentucky governor Steve Beshear said in a statement, "Mine safety must always be one of our highest priorities."

He points out the recent addition of inspectors in the Bluegrass.

"The added positions," he says, "mean Kentucky has the necessary inspectors to meet mandated inspections."

Oppegard agrees that Kentucky's strict inspection policies should be adopted nationwide.

"What we really need now is to do some things that prevent those disasters from happening in the first place, and that's why I'm talking about six inspections per year on the federal level. The more frequently you have inspectors in the mines, the more likely they are to spot problem areas."

Where does Rand Paul stand? Where do the TEA people stand? This is relevant to KY.

Drindl, that crazed stalker might call himself a TEA person, or he might not. You cannot rationally indict TEA symps on the actions of even a hundred crazies. That would be like indicting the RCC for - oh, bad analogy...:-)

Posted by: mark_in_austin | April 6, 2010 6:27 PM | Report abuse

They are Populist the way the Populist Party at the end of the 10th century was populist5. They are fed up with a world that just reuses to go their way. Farmers with too much debt, too little farm, and no real understanding of how bad a decision it is to try to farm the western plains of Nebraska, or Oklahoma, as if they were farming the Lake Plain in OHIO. Thyey bought someone's promises, and those promises haven't panned out, and now they are mad, both Irate and Insane.

Because each of them has his own set of grievances, and because the spokesmen for the movement speak of anger and not over what or how to ameliorate the situation that causes the anger, they all rerad into the leadership whatever they choose to. IF the T-s ever got significant political position, their politicians would without any effort at all jion the ranks of the power that the T-s are riled about.

But they are also like the Populists in that they will make the party they hate the most preeminent for the time of their burning, because they are unipolar, and that pole is way over in the right of the Republican Party. They go to rallies and yell about how somebody needs to pay attention to them, and only the re[publican Right Wing does. As they out one Republican after another who isn't Republican enough for them, (Oberer going after Turner) they grind down the politicians who stand some chance of winning consensus within the republican party, and fill the pits with candidates who can only alienate the portion of the Republican Party Within two area codes of the right of center.

I'm all for 'em, because in their inchoate but irate state they make my guys a better choice, and the few who go over the brink were teetering anyway, bat as T-People are more likely to give sufficient public warning that they can be caught before they hurt somebody.

Bring 'em on!

Posted by: ceflynline | April 6, 2010 6:14 PM | Report abuse

mark_in_austin


West Virginia is a democratic state - it has a democratic Governor and 2 democratic Senators - call them.

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Posted by: 37thand0street | April 6, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

explain getting rid of the department of education

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

One must assume that even with its decades long history of utter and contemptible failure to the most fragile in our society, that liberals will redefine the metrics as usual and begin to claim something like :'

"Educations saved" or some such rot.

the department of Energy was chartered by the second worst President ever, after berry, and in decades has not fullfilled one aspect of its mission, in fact the situation has worsened considerably, despite employing tens of thousands of worthless lifers.

how about "Energy Saved"?

what exactly does the department of Agriculture do? I think about the same thing as the vice President - consume oxygen and offer idiocy in return.

Posted by: Zouk_is_King | April 6, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Want to see his supporters get really mad? Ask him how many cataract surgeries he does a week, how long each one takes and how much Medicare pays her surgery?

Posted by: edismae | April 6, 2010 5:54 PM | Report abuse

'Or else it should expose them.'

Mark, don't expect a single word of criticism from the baggers on the mining tragedy. I haven't heard a peep and don't expect to. Why would they? what has it to do with them?

This is what we will keep hearing instead:


'SEATTLE -- A Washington state man has been charged with threatening to kill Democratic Sen. Patty Murray over her support for health care reform, leaving voicemail messages at her office saying she had a target on her back and "it only takes one piece of lead."
...

Wilson has a .38-caliber revolver registered to him and has a concealed carry permit for it, Woodbury wrote.

According to an excerpt of the conversation, Wilson confirmed he repeatedly called Murray as well as Washington's other Democratic senator, Maria Cantwell. He then stated: "I do pack, and I will not blink when I'm confronted. ... It's not a threat, it's a guarantee."

"There's a target on your back now," said one message on March 22. "It only takes one piece of lead. Kill the (expletive) senator! ... Now that you've passed your health-care bill, let the violence begin."

In other messages over the next several days, the caller said, "I hope somebody puts a (expletive) bullet between your (expletive) eyes," and "I do believe that every one of you (expletive) socialist democratic progressive (expletives) need to be taken out."

And, he said, "I want to (expletive) kill you."

Sounds like any number of the posters on this blog, doesn't it? This IS the real 'tea party'. Not pretty.

Posted by: drindl | April 6, 2010 5:49 PM | Report abuse

I am just curious how Rand Paul is going to explain getting rid of the department of education when he wins next month. If the GOP loses the seat in Kentucky to the Democrats (who have two moderate and good candidates running) then they can kiss there chances of winning back the senate good bye. Nominating Rand Paul will almost guarantee that scenario.

Posted by: AndyR3 | April 6, 2010 5:49 PM | Report abuse

having anything resembling a coherent outlook.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

hahahahahahaha

Like , how would you know one if you saw it dimwit?

Posted by: Zouk_is_King | April 6, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

25 dead miners in a mine whose owner was cited for 57 violations last month alone - that should arouse them. Or else it should expose them.

Posted by: mark_in_austin


Liberals think that if only there had been some 500 more laws broken ( and unenforced by get-along Dem pols and union bosses) that this kind of thing would never happen.

Charlie the Rangler is a prime example of existing laws being broken and overlooked by the higher up crooks. It would seem that we might want to start enforcing existing statutes before we add even more.

Posted by: Zouk_is_King | April 6, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

man, I think you give the TEA waaaaaaay too much credit for having anything resembling a coherent outlook. I think they are just a bunch of angry people who are reveling in the attention. Most so-called grassroots movements don't get this kind of attention.

Posted by: DDAWD | April 6, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse

...too mind-numbingly stupid to even approach that.

Posted by: DDAWD


On this subject alone, he has a wealth of life experience.

Unfortunately, when doing individual comparisons such as this, poor ddawd is always at the bottom of the barrel looking up.

Posted by: Zouk_is_King | April 6, 2010 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Another lunatic Republican running on a vague sense of outrage with no actual comprehension of the fact that it costs money to have highways, national defense, education, consumer and workplace regulation, and all the other things which government does and people take for granted. I guess Paul is against government providing these things, though, so I guess he's just crazy, not hypocritical.

Posted by: jeffwacker | April 6, 2010 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Ddawd, I think you are correct. Libertarian economics does not favor the competitive mechanism envisioned by Adam Smith, but oligopoly as the result of unregulated competition in which the ruthless survive. If the TEA movement is anti-competitive and pro monopolist it is not populist. If it wants minimal but effective enforcement of the law to assure a competitive market, it could be populist. Populists have included progressive Republicans from TR through LaFollette, as well as more labor union or small farmer friendly Ds. To be populist you must want some vision of the greatest good for the greatest number, which Adam Smith and Ricardo certainly saw in their nascent capitalism, as it broke radically from both monetarist mercantilism and guild based late feudalism.

I think there are some populists in TEA, there are some economic laissez faire libertarians, and there are plenty of manipulators. If it is going to be a populist movement it must be outraged at Blankenship and his purchased government. If the populists in TEA, and the folks who think there ought to be some, but not many, restrictions on how business is done, can split from the manipulators and the laissez faire absolutists this would be the issue to split upon. 25 dead miners in a mine whose owner was cited for 57 violations last month alone - that should arouse them. Or else it should expose them.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | April 6, 2010 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Funny you should mention him Mark,

Early this morning as the number of confirmed dead from Appalachia was growing, I was thinking about Don Blakenship. We know about his recusal case and yet, we do not know how Citizens United will affect the elections of judges.

Will we have corporate shills on the bench, the way we have them in congress, not to mention executive offices?

Posted by: shrink2 | April 6, 2010 5:34 PM | Report abuse

According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, America is the fifth lowest tax burden (as a % of GDP) and our share (28 percent, which includes state/local taxes) is 20 percent lower than the OECD average of about 35 percent. Countries who pay less than the U.S. are Mexico, Turkey, Korea, and Japan.

Corporate and excise taxes, paid mostly by businesses and which conservatives complain are inefficient and simply passed through to consumers anyway, have gone down as a share. What's gone up are payroll taxes which fund programs like Medicare and Social Security that the same tea partiers were warning Obama and congressional Democrats not to touch in the same breath they were complaining about the socialist expansion of the healthcare system.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

Posted by: 12BarBlues | April 6, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Mark, you think so? Aren't the teabaggers against regulation of industry? Means that that you can strip mountains and maintain hazardous conditions for your workers.

Personally, I think Libertarianism to be such a ridiculously ill-conceived concept. Like when Ron Paul just starts naming entire executive departments to be done away with. Um, yeah, get rid of the IRS? Really? Give me one good reason why I shouldn't think you're not smoking crack.

Actually, I think any simplistic ideology to be ridiculously stupid. Let's leave unified theory to astrophysicists. Teabaggers are just too mind-numbingly stupid to even approach that.

Posted by: DDAWD | April 6, 2010 5:05 PM | Report abuse

The libertarians make a great deal of sense.

We don't need such a large government.

We could drastically lower the taxes.


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Posted by: 37thand0street | April 6, 2010 4:49 PM | Report abuse

ATTENTION WHITE HOUSE STAFF (c/o "The Fix"):

Please forward ASAP the message below @ 4:21 from "scrivener50" to John Brennan and Dennis Blair. Thank you for your assistance in this urgent matter.

http://nowpublic.com/world/u-s-silently-tortures-americans-cell-tower-microwaves
http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america

Posted by: scrivener50 | April 6, 2010 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Ceflyline, shrink, and Ddawd, I will believe that TEA is a populist movement when it campaigns for Don Blankenship to be indicted for reckless endangerment or 25 counts of murder without malice.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/04/coal_corruption_and_campaign_f.html?wpisrc=nl_pmpolitics

Posted by: mark_in_austin | April 6, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

4/6/10 @ 4 p.m. -- SEVERE MICROWAVE ATTACK ON JOURNO EXPOSING HOMELAND MICROWAVE CELLULAR 'TORTURE TOWERS'

• "I have exposed their rogue program in mainstream media and now it appears that the order has been put out to eliminate me. The locals lack the ideological motive. This is an attempted political assassination by rogue federal agents."

Suspected source of attack: Newtown, PA Homeland-administered fusion center.

See latest comments:

http://nowpublic.com/world/u-s-govt-uses-cbs-news-cover-microwave-cell-tower-torture OR http://NowPublic.com/scrivener "U.S. Gov;t Uses..."

Thanks for Cillizza for allowing me to send up an S.O.S. THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

Posted by: scrivener50 | April 6, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Fix needs an Irate Campaigner Tracker, to watch as the prominent T-People start demanding their places on the ballot. It is a really good indicator opf what will REALLY be important in November. The more Hoffmen we get to run against "Party Designees", i.e. not sufficiently Palin hailin out on the fringe.

WHEN the T's get into forty contests, they take down forty R's and give us forty D's.

Lets hope they take down R's in red districts and states, where the would have the greatest feeling of entitlement.

Posted by: ceflynline | April 6, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Another Tea Bagger arrested.
Republicans are going to run out of voters
unless they dial back their rage machine.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/06/AR2010040602120.html?hpid=moreheadlines

Posted by: shrink2 | April 6, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

hah, I like that. All that's missing is Paul donning a superhero outfit and kicking some ass.

Posted by: DDAWD | April 6, 2010 3:46 PM | Report abuse

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