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Short Takes: Grayson vs Wilson

Florida Democratic Rep. Alan Grayson's assertion on the House floor last night that the Republican health care plan amounts to a wish for sick people to "die quickly" has provoked a fierce response from national Republicans.

House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (Va.) immediately loaded Grayson's speech onto You Tube in hopes of turning it into a viral sensation, Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn) asked for an apology, and the National Republican Congressional Committee has already e-mailed out more than a half-dozen stories on the episode to its press list over the last 12 hours.

All of which, of course, reminds us of the national furor caused by now-famous Rep. Joe Wilson's (R-S.C.) "You lie!" outburst during President Barack Obama's address to a joint session of Congress earlier this month.

There are two critical differences between Wilson and Grayson, however, from a political perspective.

First, Wilson has held his South Carolina since 2001 -- meaning that he has established some connection with the district's voters.

Grayson, on the other hand, was first elected last November thanks in large part to a Republican incumbent who found himself cross-wise with the party's base. Grayson has had little time to put down roots in the district and a comment like this one has the potential to complicate those efforts.

Second, Wilson's district went for Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) with 54 percent of the vote in 2008 and four years earlier had been carried by President George W. Bush with 60 percent. Contrast that with Obama's narrow 52 percent win in Grayson's seat in 2008 and Bush's 55 percent in the district in 2004.

Seen through the political lens then, Grayson's comment -- if Republicans can push it into a national story over the next 24 to 48 hours -- is more potentially harmful to his chances of returning to Congress than was Wilson's "you lie" interjection.

Of course, neither Wilson nor Grayson stepped in it as badly as former Rep. Mike Pappas (R-N.J.) did when he took to the House floor in 1998 to sing an ode to independent counsel Kenneth Starr. Voters in Pappas' Princeton-based district revolted, electing Rep. Rush Holt (D) in the fall.

Addendum

A third distinction between Wilson and Grayson courtesy of Fix readers. Wilson's outburst came during a nationally televised event, Grayson's on the House floor on a random Tuesday night. A difference in magnitude to be sure.

By Chris Cillizza  |  September 30, 2009; 9:54 AM ET
Categories:  Short Takes  
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Comments

FairlingtonBlade:

Let him believe whatever he wants (that's right, I secretly have been stalking him for decades now, which is how I knew he stutters, but only now did he walk into my clever trap ; )

Posted by: JakeD | October 1, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

The truth is that Obama is a liar and everyone with a brain knows it while no thinking person believes the Republicans want people to die fast.It is actually the dems who would ration end of life care.

Posted by: mikem12 | October 1, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

The truth is that Obama is a liar and everyone with a brain knows it while no thinking person believes the Republicans want people to die fast.It is actually the dems who would ration end of life care.

Posted by: mikem12 | October 1, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

countdown2009 posted a duplicate, then an apology, then Jake commented on stuttering. I've been guilty of a stuttering finger myself at times.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | October 1, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Alan Grayson for President.

Finally, a Democrat who calls Republicans what they are.

Posted by: Patriot3 | October 1, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

I do believe the stuttering comment was a reference to a duplicate post, though. I still can't get Kevin Kline's performance out of my head.

==

No, he's done it before when there was no duplicate. Jake likes to post things he's learned reading about me online, and about my father's death.

And you're probably thinking of Michael Palin (no relationship to the "writer")

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 30, 2009 11:25 PM | Report abuse

It seems a sophomoric series of comments is an appropriate thread to bookend a comment on the antics of Grayson and Wilson. I do believe the stuttering comment was a reference to a duplicate post, though. I still can't get Kevin Kline's performance out of my head.

Oh well, back to work on the YAR. 90 minutes to the end of the Fiscal Year! [We got a reprieve owing to a fire in the building. Turns out one of the chemical fume hoods was venting into the attic. I don't even want to think about what I've been breathing the last 5 years.]

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | September 30, 2009 10:33 PM | Report abuse

I agree with JRM2. This comment thread is as ugly as the comment thread on Morning Fix was interesting and fun.

Posted by: jrosco3 | September 30, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Hearing voices in your head again?

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

be silent, fool

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 30, 2009 8:50 PM | Report abuse

GoldAndTanzanite:

I thought that you were "ignoring" me? That ain't working out so good for you. BTW: I am posting this from my iPhone (let's see if you can manage to "ignore" that truth ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Another valuable contributor driven off by a valueless one.

Happy, Chris?

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 30, 2009 8:23 PM | Report abuse

See ya, JRM2. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 8:13 PM | Report abuse

To Chris Cilliza - I thought I'd pop in here again to see how the thread was doing, sadly it has degenerated even more than the last time I was here. People spouting the same old garbage and name-calling, the same old bullies, frankly it's boring, it is like browsing the tabloids at the check-out counter.

You know who they are and you still tolerate them.

I find no reason to come back here any more since this section of the blog has become akin to a static website, one that never updates itself.

Posted by: JRM2 | September 30, 2009 8:12 PM | Report abuse

That was easy (first hit):

"Yes, let's focus in on 2% of the budget. Just because a project is labeled an "earmark" does not mean it is wasteful spending.

Critics like to point out silly titles to mock them (like X amount of dollars for Mormon cricket control) in hopes the public won't look deep enough to realize that in this case, controlling the Mormon cricket means multi-millions of dollars to the agricultural industry.

Posted by: JRM2 | March 11, 2009 7:35 PM

32 Republican Senators (including McCain) voted against the earmarks.

Posted by: JakeD | March 11, 2009 3:22 PM

For the record, I have never stated or implied that I am "moderate". I am indeed CONSERVATIVE. If anyone else wants to discuss the thread topic now, please let me know."

Posted by: JakeD | March 11, 2009 3:09 PM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/03/11/obama_to_unveil_earmark_reform.html

Like shooting fish in a barrel (regardless of whether anyone "likes" me -- that's not my purpose here -- our gracious host hasn't banned me, repeatedly ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 8:07 PM | Report abuse

And despite thousands and thousands of these "please let me know" posts and not a single bite ever, you keep issuing them.

Our own Agent of Futility, still chasing a presidential pot of gold at the end of the Palin rainbow, still begging for attention, still telling lies nobody believes.

Why don't you just leave this blog, nobody likes you.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 30, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

If anyone else wants to discuss how I was also opposed to the Feds taking over healthcare when it was a white woman doing it (HillaryCare), please let me know.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 7:43 PM | Report abuse

None of you bedwetters are "concerned about the Feds taking over healthcare," because that isn't on the agenda.

You guys just have your undies bunched up your cracks because your party is out of power and a black man is President.

You can shift the capital to the second letter until the glacier comes back but there isn't a damn thing you can do about it except bother strangers who don't care if you live or die.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 30, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Well, medogsbstfrnd, I'm sure you can appreciate that those of us concerned about the Feds taking over of healthcare applaud Rep. Wilson for standing up to tell the truth about how fiscally bankrupt the Democratic plans are.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Grayson, unlike Wilson, can read. He also didn't attack the President during a speech to the Congress. Oh, and he has the kahones to tell the truth about how morally bankrupt the GOP is. He should get a medal.

Posted by: medogsbstfrnd | September 30, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

snowbama:

Are you seeing this?

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

so jakeD mocks people with disabilities. way to take the discourse to the gutter like a good little rethug piggie.

==

JakeD is a real sick little piece of work. He's been researching me online, apparently putting hours and hours into it. How he divined that I was once a stutterer is beyond me, no idea how that could be part of any record, but in any case it's an ineffective goad because I don't do it anymore, haven't for over 15 years.

But he's a really sick little creep for making a hobby of a stranger on a blog, hmmm?

Yeah, JakeD, everyone here envies your "life."

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 30, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I can't possibly imagine how this would hurt Grayson's re-election chances. The most successful politicians are those who make their primary function to serve as a conduit for voter outrage to flow towards somewhere else. No one is going to get mad at Grayson who wasn't already a true believer already. The biggest problems are that he spoke too long and was too boring while he spoke.

There's not much the 24 hour networks can do with it to hurt him either. Fox is going to need to do extra contorsions if they want to report this without saying the words "Republicans want you to die." If those words are said in a story, Grayson wins.

Posted by: theamazingjex | September 30, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of "gutter" YOUR pResident was the one making fun of the Special Olympics in reference to his own lack of bowling skills.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

so jakeD mocks people with disabilities. way to take the discourse to the gutter like a good little rethug piggie.

Posted by: countdown2009 | September 30, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

reason5:

Shhhh!!! Are you trying to ruin my wager with AndyR3?

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

WASHINGTON (CNN) – House Republicans changed course on Wednesday and decided not to move forward with a resolution condemning Rep. Alan Grayson, D-Florida, for saying that the GOP health care plan calls for sick people to "die quickly."

...

Tom Price, the Georgia congressman who chairs the conservative Republican Study Committee, announced Wednesday morning that he would introduce a resolution condemning Grayson for breaching House decorum.

But a few hours later, Price decided to hold his fire and give Grayson a chance to apologize to House Minority Leader John Boehner for his remarks.

"We thought that we would give Congressman Grayson an opportunity to do the right thing and recognize the comments that he made were disrespectful to the House and to the decorum," Price told CNN.

Price said Grayson, who hails from a conservative district in central Florida, "has maligned half, if not more than half, of his own constituents" who are Republican.

Asked if he will introduce the resolution if Grayson refuses to apologize, Price said "we'll certainly consider it."

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Grayson is another GOP House pick-up in 2010. In my view, Joe Wilson is a known racist in a known racist district. He will get reelected, as racists will be voting for him in his home district. Grayson doesn't have such a liberal district that he doesn't have to worry, however. After all, his district did go for W. in 04. He's in deep trouble. I think Grayson will be a fool and apologize. Then he will still get tarred and featured for it in 2010.

Posted by: reason5 | September 30, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Stutter much?

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

sorry i only meant to post that once. nice site WaPO!

Posted by: countdown2009 | September 30, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Let's see how much Rep. Grayson pulls in from his little stunt ...

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

jakeD,

for the record Wilson did apologize because he knew what he did was inappropriate... not to mention the fact that he was wrong... something rethuglicans have an impossible time admitting, unless they get outed for having sex with their mistress on another continent... or someone else's wife... or little boys...

at any rate, Wilson is a liar and a known racist consorting with known racist groups. is it any coincidence that Wilson would belt out an unfounded accusation at the president during Obama's address to the Congress? no one cares about Wilson anyway, he's another do-nothing, know-nothing rethug who has zero credibility ... to go along with his feeble legislative record.

Posted by: countdown2009 | September 30, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

jakeD, no i don't know why ... enlight us all, oh wise one.

just for the record Wilson did apologize because he knew what he did was inappropriate... not to mention the fact that he was wrong... something rethuglicans have an impossible time admitting, unless they get outed for having sex with their mistress on another continent... or someone else's wife... or little boys...

at any rate, Wilson is a liar and a known racist consorting with known racist groups. is it any coincidence that Wilson would belt out an unfounded accusation at the president during Obama's address to the Congress? no one cares about Wilson anyway, he's another do-nothing, know-nothing rethug who has zero credibility ... to go along with his feeble legislative record.

Posted by: countdown2009 | September 30, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

countdown2009:

Now you know why we didn't want Rep. Wilson to apologize either ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

so snowbaby is that what landed you in the loony bin? Stalking strangers?

Pity you didn't take up stamp collecting or something.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 30, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

three cheers for Alan Grayson. Finally, someone who is not afraid to call out the GOP. and the idea that HE should apologize, bwhaahahahahaha... Grayson should apologize FOR NOTHING!!!!!!

it all boils down to the fact that the republicans are only interested in control and power. they don't give a sh*t about Americans or America. all you weak minded rethugs fall right in line marching to the beat of the right wing mouths and GOP "leaders" ...and believe the swill they shovel down your little piggie throats. they have you believing in death panels, indoctrination of school children, internment camps, a socialist takeover, etc etc etc.... i'm sure they would have you believe the ocean was yellow and earth is flat too if they really wanted to...

Posted by: countdown2009 | September 30, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Be silent, fool

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite


first she couldn't tell the difference between SNL and real life. Now the confusion between the "voices" and external friends.
shrink, do you do any pro bono?

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

This place is barely readable now, the same two trolls shîtting it up with the same posts repeated over and over.

Reap what you sow, Chris. We told you so.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite


I don't think even drindl wants to be put in the same boat as you.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Be silent, fool

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 30, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Careful with the name-calling ...

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

This place is barely readable now, the same two trolls shîtting it up with the same posts repeated over and over.

Reap what you sow, Chris. We told you so.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 30, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

"More evidence" in that my posts here are PAID FOR by taxpayer psy op authorized by the Bush-Cheney leave-behinds?! LOL!!! You are a riot (which is only a statement of opinion and in no way intended to incite anyone to actually riot and/or murder ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

JakeD @ 2:14 p.m.:

No, thank you for providing more evidence that the 24/7 spamming of political blogs appears to be a taxpayer-funded psy op authorized by the Bush-Cheney leave-behinds who have enabled the torture and physical degradation of "targeted" American citizens with classified microwave and laser radiation directed energy weapons.

Guess what? Not everyone on Team Obama is naive...

http://nowpublic.com/world/govt-fusion-center-spying-pretext-harass-and-censor

Posted by: scrivener50 | September 30, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

You're welcome. Good luck with that whole "pResident Obama putting an end to the voices in your head" thing : )

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

TO: JakeD @ 1:39 p.m., 1:50 p.m.


Bad intel again?

They are ALREADY reaping it... and someday soon, even Wa-Po may report on it. (Hint: I am not the only one who knows which way the wind blows...)

I could extend my remarks, but so as not to hijack CC's thread, I will refer you to my blog site at http://NowPublic.com/scrivener.

Thanks for being my straight man, as they used to say in vaudeville...

Posted by: scrivener50 | September 30, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

.

Ryan Grim at the Huffington Post takes a preliminary look at a few Republican representatives who claimed the Democratic health care plan spelled death for Americans:

Take Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite (R-Fla.), who said in July: "Last week, Democrats released a health care bill which essentially said to America's seniors: drop dead."

Or Rep. Paul Broun (R-Ga.), a doctor, who reviewed the public health insurance option in July and diagnosed that it is "gonna kill people."

Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.), not one to pull punches, suggested on the House floor that Congress "make sure we bring down the cost of health care for all Americans and that ensures affordable access for all Americans and is pro-life because it will not put seniors in a position of being put to death by their government."

July was a busy time for House floor death sentences. Also that month, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), noted: "One in five people have to die because they went to socialized medicine...I would hate to think that among five women, one of 'em is gonna die because we go to socialized care."

Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) had a similar assessment. "They're going to save money by rationing care, getting you in a long line. Places like Canada, United Kingdom, and Europe. People die when they're in line," he said on the House floor in July."

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

and another thread goes into the toilet after a certain someone arrives.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

YES, Really!!!

(another episode of "Really?!" with Seth Meyers and drindl ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

"P.S. to thecorinthian: pResident Obama IS an enemy of humanity."

CHRIS -- this comment is very offensive to most of us. Why do you allow this kind of vile hate speech at the Fix?

==

Maybe he's a sucker for JakeD's "gracious host" brown-nosing.

JakeD's exemption from the rules of decorum around here is pretty damned blatant.

Posted by: GoldAndTanzanite | September 30, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

scrivener50:

What happened? Did the cat get your tongue? Maybe that black helicopter finally got you?

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Chris, when are you going to write a column about all the crazy sh*t Rs have been saying about the democratic plan?

"Republicans are predictably and tiresomely fuming over Rep. Alan Grayson's remark yesterday that "Republicans want you to die quickly," and with Rep. Jimmy Duncan (R-TN) declaring:

"That is about the most mean-spirited partisan statement that I've ever heard made on this floor, and I, for one, don't appreciate it."

Hmmmm. Really? The most mean-spirited partisan statement ever heard? Let's see what a little digging comes up with ....

Ryan Grim at the Huffington Post takes a preliminary look at a few Republican representatives who claimed the Democratic health care plan spelled death for Americans:

Take Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite (R-Fla.), who said in July: "Last week, Democrats released a health care bill which essentially said to America's seniors: drop dead."

Or Rep. Paul Broun (R-Ga.), a doctor, who reviewed the public health insurance option in July and diagnosed that it is "gonna kill people."

Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.), not one to pull punches, suggested on the House floor that Congress "make sure we bring down the cost of health care for all Americans and that ensures affordable access for all Americans and is pro-life because it will not put seniors in a position of being put to death by their government."

July was a busy time for House floor death sentences. Also that month, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), noted: "One in five people have to die because they went to socialized medicine...I would hate to think that among five women, one of 'em is gonna die because we go to socialized care."

Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) had a similar assessment. "They're going to save money by rationing care, getting you in a long line. Places like Canada, United Kingdom, and Europe. People die when they're in line," he said on the House floor in July."

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

P.S. it could also mean that you finally (after YEARS) figured out how to actually post. No grand conspiracy needed.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

scrivener50:

You're welcome for asking (too bad the best you could come up with is it "may soon" happen when the question was about how long YOU are going to give Team Obama if they don't anything ; )

shrink2:

It did provide even the troops some much-needed laughter.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

drindl,

Grayson and Wilson were both inappropriate in their actions. Grayson has a colorful history of saying inappropriate things in his first year from what politico has reported. The difference is that Wilson could end up being vindicated (though it was still inappropriate what he did) if Rep Honda gets his way in the House. Wilson will have a competitive race though he'll have the finances to fend of a challenger. Grayson comes from a state that has soured on the health care bill more than maybe any other state.

Posted by: TexasProud1 | September 30, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

BULLETIN TO: drindl and JakeD @ 1:19 p.m.:

The wheels already are "in spin," and "the first ones now will later be last..."

The very fact that my posts are going through and not being censored as they have been, off and on, for a periods of YEARS is but one sign that the multi-agency cabal behind the covert deployment of microwave directed energy weapons against the American public (in one apparent iteration, under the guise of cell towers) may soon reap what they have sowed.

Have a nice day, and thanks for asking.

Oh, on a related subject, how I spent most of yesterday:

http://groups.poynter.org/members/group.asp?id=27948

Posted by: scrivener50 | September 30, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

That was funny.
Watching that guy on the roof, live on CNN, talking about how the American's were in full retreat even as tanks appeared in the distance, advancing in a column.

No it is all over but the shouting now.
The stipulations for pre-existing conditions (how treating sick people can be made profitable), the rate structures, the risk pool brackets...the industry has already let its politicians know what they will and will not accept.


Posted by: shrink2 | September 30, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

snowbama:

Last I heard, he was free and living in the United Arab Emirates with his family.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Everyone is familiar with the Peloponnesian War War, right? When ancient Greece, at the apex of its power and glory, having defeated the world's largest empire, inexplicably destroyed itself in vicious intra-Greek conflict?

Thucydides' description of that time can't help but sound depressingly familiar to a modern American. The Peloponnesian War, Book 3.82-83, here's a link:

http://homepage.usask.ca/~jrp638/DeptTransls/ThucPorter.html

Particularly this quote:

"And, for the most part, those of more limited intelligence were the ones to survive: in their fear regarding their own deficiencies and their opponents' cleverness, lest they might be defeated in debate (e.g. in a political trial) or be forestalled in laying some plot by their opponents' cunning, they turned to action right away with a boldness born of desperation."

Posted by: nodebris | September 30, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

I should have said, we are losing the public option in order to gain universal coverage (>90%) and it will be an amazing victory for the administration.

Posted by: shrink2


Baghdad Bob, I thought you were in prison. Obama let you out to champion his propoganda? figures.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

fairfoxvoter--joked is known as a despicable inciter of violence.

Posted by: drindl


wow Libs must be very easy to talk into things. As we know, the perps are all Dems.

come to think of it, voting for a guy with zero experience and a total lack of credentials would have to fall on Dems, no one else would be that stupid. so yes, Libs are easy to talk into things.

Hey, out of work liberals, want to go protest capitalism today? We could graffitti and burn stuff and maybe get on the news.

sure I got nothing else.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Oops... that was "GRAYSON realizes"... not Wilson (post above). Wrong "son." Wilson already know how to deploy "neurolinguistic programming" to his advantage...

Posted by: scrivener50 | September 30, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

scrivener50:

How long are you going to give Team Obama, members of Congress, etc. to actually do anything about these directed energy weapons?! I'm beginning to think that you are all talk and no action.

drindl:

Yes, Really!

(This has been "Really?! With Seth Meyers and drindl" ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

I should have said, we are losing the public option in order to gain universal coverage (>90%) and it will be an amazing victory for the administration.

Posted by: shrink2 | September 30, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

fairfAxvoter:

I have never incited violence my entire life; drindl is known as a despicable liar.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

unbelievable.

So, let me get this straight: the same party that's been saying the Democrats are planning to pull the plug on Grandma for months is having an epic fit of the vapors because Alan Grayson said that the Republican Health Care plan is "Don't get sick and if you do get sick, die early?" Really? How do they live with this much gall?

Apparently, they are going to introduce a privledged resolution to sanction Grayson today. "

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

WILSON REALIZES THAT DEMS MUST GIVE AS GOOD AS THEY GET.


It's about time the Dems stop being naive pantywaists and stand up and fight.

Now, when will well-meaning good-government goo-goos realize that a hard-right driven grassroots Gestapo has co-opted government funded programs to achieve its ideological goals...

...violating the civil and human rights their "targeted" fellow citizens?

Team Obama, members of Congress, please read this and CONVENE HEARINGS. Classified microwave and laser radiation directed energy weapons are being used on American citizens. You MUST stop being so naive and easily deceived by ideologically infected agencies of government still operating under the Bush-Cheney agenda:

http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america
http://nowpublic.com/world/domestic-torture-radiation-weaponry-americas-horrific-shame

Posted by: scrivener50 | September 30, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

shrink2:

The public option was not part of Dean's plank during his years as a politician/candidate because he skipped right over that and went straight to
universal health coverage. Trust me, plenty of Dems are going to be pissed off if there is no public option passed. Will that be enough to keep them home on November 2nd remains to be seen.

margaretmeyers:

H.R. 3400 is hardly "no plan", regardless of whether YOU think it's a good plan or not. I'm glad you finally agree that getting "very near the truth" is justification for Rep. Wilson's outburst though ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

fairfoxvoter--joked is known as a despicable inciter of violence.

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Grayson's statement was sauce for the gander: the GOP has been braying lies about the Democrats' efforts at health care reform all year. Now they want to wave their hankies in front of their faces at Grayson's comments?

What Grayson said is very near the truth --the GOP has no plan so, yes, you should stay healthy or die quickly. One or t'other.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | September 30, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

fairfaxvoter:

I am NOT "tacitly encouraging" threats simply by pointing out there have not been as many -- the LAST thing I want is for Obama to become a political martyr -- one more correction: Sen. Hillary Clinton had Secret Service protection as a declared candidate before Sen. Barack Obama did. Sen. John McCain was such a he-man that he declined Secret Service protection until he was forced to accept it.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Boohoohoo! Mommy Oh Mommy! the Big Bad Dems are picking on us and are now fighting back! The Dems hurt our feelings Mommy and they made us go poopy in our pants!

Posted by: hayden1 | September 30, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Obama himself, Organizer in Chief, had no plan. He proposed no plan to Congress. He has let committee after committee of witless tax-and-spend, haggard old liberals write the convoluted mess they're calling healthcare reform, and has virtually done nothing for own his part but bash the insurance companies, the doctors and even the patients, who ask for individual control over their own life-and-death choices.


This, dear readers, is the fundamental difference between an empty-suited celebrity and a nuts-and-bolts executive: flim-flam artistry vs. substance and real results.


Barack Obama, the eternal campaigner, held a healthcare town hall, which even Helen Thomas and her just-as-liberal cohort, Chip Reid of CBS, called "orchestrated," "tightly-controlled," and seemingly "less transparent" than any previous White House occupants had ever dared. The questions posed to the President, it's now quite obvious, must indeed be orchestrated because he is tasked with selling legislation that he himself has neither read nor understands.

Honey, even a nitwit knows that when a president must hire out his real job to 32 czars, he was never CEO material.

When Bill Clinton put forth the notion of Barack Obama as a "fairytale" and was trounced for it, Democrats should have listened. They now have a man in the office of the presidency, for whom they must provide cover every single day. Why? It's simple. Barack Obama mastered Alinsky tactics of campaigning for power and working the crowds down to the last little letter, but he absolutely has no plan of governance, no workable solutions, and can't even talk about such things without a live-feed teleprompter glued to each hip.


Leaders don't fall from the sky without proof they ever made friends and dated girlfriends and earned grades and had businesses and wrote papers, folks. Leaders have visible trails; they have made a record of their successes and proudly show them whenever asked. Barack Obama resides in the White House without ever showing a shred of genuine evidence that he is the greatly-gifted man he and his media sycophants say he is. And 52% of the American electorate has bought this faster than they would buy a used car from a slick-suited salesman on a shady lot.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

He Dean is still firmly in favor of it (so am I, but that does not matter). On a Sunday talk show recently, I watched as he made the argument I just glossed. If we lose the public option and gain universal coverage, that will be an amazing victory for the administration. We have to remember, the public option was not part of Dean's universal health coverage platform plank during his years as a politician/candidate.

Posted by: shrink2 | September 30, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

I think it's terrible JakeD is trying to use the number of violent threats against any president as a political indicator. It seems to be tacitly encouraging this kind of psychotic deadly behavior just in the name of political fun and games.

I admire the Bush administration and Homeland Security for taking a smart, pro-American perspective and slapping Secret Service protection on Barack Obama way way before any other candidate has ever received it. They understood then the damage to the fabric of American society that is posed by political violence. Imitate them and respect and reduce real threats. Enough said.

Posted by: fairfaxvoter | September 30, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD:

Since I am the only one willing to "deal" with each and every post on this thread, perhaps you should take your advice and shove it.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

"Last I checked, Howard Dean (he is a doctor after all) was a-ok with losing the "public option", so long as the basics passed. "

Shrink2, where did you see this? A month ago, he was pretty firmly in favor of the PO. Has this changed?

Posted by: DDAWD | September 30, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

If you don't want to count that lady, then let me know when there are 43 arrested for threats against pResident Obama.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

In a democracy, it is the function of the citizenry to choose a leader, rather than a candidate. Mr. Obama has yet to learn the difference. Harried by polls and slipping support, he has forgotten that he was entrusted to make decisions in support of our interests, irrespective of public whim. He seems more afraid of not ending the war in time for his reelection bid than he is with wasting the lives of our men and women in uniform on a war he has no intention of winning.


Choosing the hard right over the easy wrong is a time tested indicator of a good leader versus a good politician. Looking at the facts of his life, one couldn't be confident in this trait as part of Mr. Obama's ethical toolkit. From ACORN association to Communist advisors, time and again, he's been on the left side of right and wrong. The next few days will speak volumes as to whether our troops will be allowed to keep their honor and protect us from terrorism.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

"JakeD - It's up to you disbelievers to prove he is not eligible. End of.

I'm sorry you can't deal with someone outside of your country with a different opinion than you. Canadian healthcare is not perfect but it's very good, and based on what I've read and what I've heard from my US family members, I'll take it over yours any day of the week.

Peace my friend.

Posted by: neko4"

Psst...he can't deal with opposing opinions from people IN his country. That's why he indiscriminately wishes for people to drop dead.

That's also why we've decided not to talk to him on here.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 30, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

drindl:

A "threat" against the President of the United States does not require proving that the person actually intended to carry out the threat (18 USC 871). Seriously, you should brush up on the actual law before you try to "debate" these points.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

here is one big reason republlicans will not do well in the next election. they are going backwards in time. Phyliss Shafley talking about the 'dangers of feminism' in a world so post feminist it's laughable. and here john derbyshire advocates for taking the right to vote away from women:

John Derbyshire, a British-American conservative author and columnist for the National Review, has written a new book titled We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism. The book contains a section called “The Case Against Female Suffrage.” Yesterday on his radio show, Alan Colmes asked Derbyshire to articulate his argument.

“What is the case against female suffrage?” Colmes asked. “The conservative case against it is that women lean hard to the left,” Derbyshire responded nonsensically. “They want someone to nurture, they want someone to help raise their kids, and if men aren’t inclined to do it — and in the present days, they’re not much — then they’d like the state to do it for them.”

Colmes then pressed Derbyshire on whether women should have the right to vote. “Ah…” Derbyshire sighed, attempting to dodge the question initially. “I’m not putting forward a political program here,” he said. But then Derbyshire slowly began to open up:

DERBYSHIRE: Among the hopes that I do not realistically nurse is the hope that female suffrage will be repealed. But I’ll say this – if it were to be, I wouldn’t lose a minute’s sleep.

COLMES: We’d be a better country if women didn’t vote?

DERBYSHIRE: Probably. Don’t you think so?

COLMES: No, I do not think so whatsoever.

DERBYSHIRE: Come on Alan. Come clean here [laughing].

COLMES: We would be a better country? John Derbyshire making the statement, we would be a better country if women did not vote.

DERBYSHIRE: Yeah, probably.

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

neko4:

Here in this country, the burden of proof is to the ELECTED OFFICIAL to prove he (or she) is eligible -- it's called "quo warranto" -- nice try though.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

'Here are the names of people actually arrested for ACTUAL threats against President George W. Bush:'

you mean like the woman arrested outside a bush meeting for wearing an anti-war tshirt? yeah, she was threatening all right. you are a joke.

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Olympic ideals could help Obama get the Tea Party movement to disband and support his tax and spend initiatives based on success stories like how after "... agonizing years of ethnic strife, Burundi came together as one when Venuste Niyongabo won the country's first Olympic gold medal at the 1996 Atlanta Game."


Yet, troglodyte Americans remain a barrier -- those wary of rogue dictators keeping their word, like a perplexed Byron York who lacks the insight to understand why when, "Iran smolders and Afghanistan burns Obama heads to Denmark?" Or, President Sarkozy of France, whose critical comments serve as barriers en route to global unity,


I support the extended hand of the Americans, but what good has proposals for dialogue brought the international community? More uranium enrichment and declarations by the leaders of Iran to wipe a UN member state off the map.


Despite opposition from skeptics, Obama continues decrying the lowly war mongering history of the United States and remains resistant to the archaic peace through strength mindset. He goes to Copenhagen to extend hope and change on a global level and in support of a diplomatic Olympic spirit that acknowledges human kind's intrinsic decency.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

OK, maybe Sen. Landrieu (D-LA) wasn't arrested, but she should have been ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

JakeD - It's up to you disbelievers to prove he is not eligible. End of.

I'm sorry you can't deal with someone outside of your country with a different opinion than you. Canadian healthcare is not perfect but it's very good, and based on what I've read and what I've heard from my US family members, I'll take it over yours any day of the week.

Peace my friend.

Posted by: neko4 | September 30, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

"DDAWD, I normally scorn your kind of resort to profanity, but somehow, in this context, it just sounds right."

I don't normally like to curse, but the Republican position on the health care debate is so meritless and the consequences of what they are doing are so dire. It's people's health that they are fuċking with. Just because they feel this is their chance to win the White House in 2012.

I've been following politics my whole life and I realize this is how the game is played, but for them to ratchet up the rhetoric this much on an issue this serious is just screwed up.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 30, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

neko4 and drindl:

Here are the names of people actually arrested for ACTUAL threats against President George W. Bush:

Robert Pickett, Richard Humphreys, Diane Wilson, Robert Romo, Florence Lockhart, Patrick McMorrow, Volker Czechanowswky, Joseph Mazaqwu, Dan Cvijanovich, Vladimer Arutunian, Barry Eckstrom, Steven Baldwin (no, the OTHER Baldwin brother), John Thomason, Phillip Bailey, Shawn Cox, Scott Rendelman, Mohammad Zaki Amawi, Roger Witmer, Julia Wilson, Jessica Moyer, Alexis Janicki, Catalino Diaz, Vikram Buddhi, Nathan Danforth, Timothy Pinkston, Stephen Pyle, Steven Vonieda, Michael Braun, Patrick Bloodsworth, Gregory Broussard, Jeffrey Cloutier, Monty Branch, Joseph Mazagwu, Larry Ward, Mary Landrieu, Wilbur Brown, Arafat Nijmeh, Dan Tilli, Aleksandar Aleksov, Charles Madrid, Declan O'Shea, Raymond Geisel, and Tony Alamo.

Let me know when there are 44 against pResident Obama.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

top generals now speaking out against liz and dick cheney:

'About a dozen retired generals and admirals, trying to add momentum to President Barack Obama’s effort to close the Guantanamo Bay military prison, are accusing former Vice President Dick Cheney and his daughter Liz of scaremongering about the dangers of closing it.

“It’s up to all of us to say these arguments advanced by Cheney and his acolytes are nonsense and that really what they’re doing is undermining our national security by delaying the date at which Guantanamo is closed,” retired Brig. Gen. James Cullen, a former chief judge of the Army’s Court of Criminal Appeals, told POLITICO Tuesday.

“Some of the fear issues that are being raised in this are really unfortunate. It gets people excited about things they shouldn’t be excited about and impedes doing what is critical to this country. Get that damn symbol off the table,” said retired Gen. David Maddox, a former Army commander-in-chief for Europe. “We take a setback every time somebody, whether it’s the vice president or his daughter comes out and says the things that they say….We have to get out there again and just keep pounding.”

The former vice president and his daughter declined comment on the criticism.'

cowards.

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

At the December 2008 Democratic Convention, Chu's future boss made the absurd claim that if elected he would guarantee that the United States would be energy independent in ten years. We're approaching Obama's one-year anniversary. Do you think that we're 10% towards energy independence? Neither do I. And we never will be without developing a lot more of our own oil, gas and coal. And as long as Dr. Steven Chu is in charge of the DoE and Obama is our President that will never happen.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Oh, I know this one: Lee Cary at the American Thinker!

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/09/the_patron_in_chiefs_copenhage.html

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

neko4 -- thank you. It's very sad watching this country spiral into mindless stupidity and violence.

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Jarrett was the president of a property management firm that managed large Chicago Housing Authority properties. In other words, a city-designated slum landlord. Before that, she was Michelle's boss in the Office of the Mayor of Chicago -- that would be Richard the Younger. After that, she became Michelle's patroness at the University of Chicago Hospitals.


So, of course, the President has to go to Copenhagen to push for Chicago as the site for the 2016 Olympics. He is the duly elected Patron in Chief assigned to bring home the bacon. The closer. He says he's can now leave Washington because the campaign for healthcare reform in under control. Right. And the Cubs are destined to take the Series this year in four straight.
So, of course Obama has to go to Copenhagen. He has no choice. Sure, he's only talked to his Commanding General in Afghanistan once in the last seventy days, but the war there is small change compared to Chicago's bid for the Olympics.


One of the legacy news outlets quoted Valerie Jarrett as saying that the "dynamic duo" of Barack and Michelle would sway the Olympic Committee. How can a poor southern hemisphere city like Rio de Janeiro compete against the dynamic duo? Plus Oprah.


It's a done deal.


Meanwhile, Afghanistan can wait. They're not in the running for the Olympics anyway. Probably won't even send any athletes. Chicago comes first. It's about serious political patronage, not corny wartime patriotism.


And never mind that Chicago's citizens are equally split on whether or not they want to host the Olympics. They don't have a say in it. They're counting the cost and wondering what'll happen when their state income and property taxes go up, again. It's time they get with the program and go-along-to-get-along. After all, it's all about the Daley Machine and its scion, the Patron in Chief, bringin' home the bacon.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

really don't like this kind of tactic, but hell, after hearing those fưcking pricks scream about death panels for the last few months, then they can learn to deal with their own bullshít.

Posted by: DDAWD


Perfect example of Liberal "debate". insult, curse, yell, scream!!!

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

andrea81 and NomoStew:

So, which one is it? Rep. Wilson was chastized for WHAT he said or not? As soon as you decide that, let me know and we can debate the issue.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

neko4:

Are you SURE that Barack Obama is a natural-born citizen? Arnold Schwarzenegger could be "democratically-elected" but is still CONSTITUTIONALLY ineligible to become President of the United States. How about I won't meddle with your country's healthcare as long as you don't meddle with mine?

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Wilson's outburst was directed at the POTUS during an address. Grayson's was during debate on the House floor. Totally different circumstances, regardless of how long these guys have held their seats. You're comparing apples to oranges, Chris.

Posted by: andrea81 | September 30, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

#1 at Barnes & Noble. Amazon.com got a late start, so it's "only" #3 (with a bullet, which is a statement of fact and no way intended to incite anyone to murder ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD, I normally scorn your kind of resort to profanity, but somehow, in this context, it just sounds right.

The 1st amendment protects what you say, but let's us limit when and where. Wilson was chastized for when and where, not what. There is no comparison at all here. Not to mention, Wilson was wrong on the facts and Grayson is correct - as thousands of Americans discover each year under our current system. Any one of us could find ourselves in that boat some day.

Posted by: NomoStew | September 30, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

drindl - I applaud you and your great comments. I have much sympathy for you faced with such stupidity on a daily basis. As expected, none on the Right have been able to disprove or even simply debate anything you've said.

As a Canadian (yes, we are Nazi socialists up here, lol), I can tell you we often shake our heads and chuckle at the antics below the border. The Right touts democracy - even tries to force it on other countries - and yet they fight your democratically-elected President and his administration tooth and nail. So unpatriotic. They would be smarter to get their act together and try to win the next election on their merits instead of acting like whining children.

peace

Posted by: neko4 | September 30, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Last I checked, Howard Dean (he is a doctor after all) was a-ok with losing the "public option", so long as the basics passed.

In our view, the single payer plan would be the cheapest way to universal coverage, but it would not be the fastest. The plan that is going to pass will be laughably pork laden, everyone will get something. It will be unsustainable.

Then we will have to start making it work and at that time, throwing people out of the ever dwindling number of plans will not be an option. Eventually, the public option (it will get different names over time) will be the payer for the great majority.

Once people get used to the idea that we are all paying for everyone else's health care (even though it is already true, denial reigns supreme), efficiency will become everyones' interest.

But so long as cost shifts (perverse incentives) are profitable, universal coverage will be very wasteful.

Posted by: shrink2 | September 30, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

drindl:

Which is why her book is NUMBER 1 right now, right?

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

AndyR3:

If Rep. Wilson (R-SC) is re-elected, you donate $20 to the Heritage Foundation. If he isn't, I will donate $20 to the ACLU.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

but on a lighter note -- here's sarah palin! she can't even get an audience -- how do the loonies on the right think she could run for office?

'Since Sarah Palin resigned as Alaska’s governor, she has signed on with the Washington Speakers Bureau, hoping to cash in on her fame. While Palin did do one speech — to mixed reviews — in Asia recently, she is reportedly having trouble getting booked for more:

Palin’s bookers are said to be asking for $100,000 per speech, but an industry expert tells Page Six: “The big lecture buyers in the US are paralyzed with fear about booking her, basically because they think she is a blithering idiot.”

“Palin is so uninteresting to so many groups — unless they are interested in moose hunting,” said our insider. “What does she have to say? She can’t even describe what she reads.“

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

AndyR3:

Want to place a small wager on Rep. Wilson being re-elected?

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

As a tax paying, patriotic citizen of this great nation, it embarrasses me to watch my elected officials act no better than gang members who call each other names and then pose all mad as hell at each other claiming disrespect by the other gang.

Shut up, grow up and do your jobs!

Posted by: pigfox | September 30, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

The difference CC is that Wilson broke the rules of the house, and Grayson just made a stupid comment. BTW, both of them will probably lose their seats because of this.

Posted by: AndyR3 | September 30, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

DON'T TELL ME TO RELAX. Just hang loose and watch it happen? There are a lot of armed rightwing loonies in the mold of Timothy McVeigh out there and the republican establishment is encouraging them, inciting them. Here's another one the fearmongering Glenn Beck:

But his real worry is that many Washington elitists really don’t like our form of government and want to see it abolished.

"I fear a Reichstag moment," he said, referring to the 1933 burning of Germany's parliament building in Berlin that the Nazis blamed on communists and Hitler used as an excuse to suspend constitutional liberties and consolidate power.

"God forbid, another 9/11. Something that will turn this machine on, and power will be seized and voices will be silenced."

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

drindl:

Just because you leftists don't own guns doesn't mean your aren't just as crazy -- please, listen to TexasProud1, take a deep breath and relax -- maybe even "boycott" The Fix again.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

I really don't like this kind of tactic, but hell, after hearing those fưcking pricks scream about death panels for the last few months, then they can learn to deal with their own bullshít.

Posted by: DDAWD | September 30, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

drindl, just take a deep breath and relax. Yes Grayson is an idiot and a bomb thrower, and he is setting himself up nicely for a guest role on 'Countdown' after he loses re-election. I don't think Obama is an enemy to humanity-i just think he is hopeless naive in the world around him, and arrogant enough to weaken our nation's standing for the sake of being liked. When the French think you're weak-that should raise a few eyebrows. Grayson and Wilson are both hyper-partisan but Wilson is the only one who is going to be vindicated after Cong. Honda and Sheila Jackson-Lee get illegal immigrants added to the list of people covered under ObamaCare. Their words not mine.

Posted by: TexasProud1 | September 30, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

When republican LEADERS start encouraging people to buy more ammo and overthrow the government -- THAT'S A WHOLE NEW LEVEL OF NUTS.

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Oh, please, it's not the "sort of incendiary comment" like GWB personally planted demolition charges at the WTC. THAT was taking political 'discourse' to some crazy new level of hyperbole and the right to new and more intense levels of mental illness and violent fantasy. Let me know when we get there re: Obama.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

shrink2:

Don't put the cart before the horse (you have to get past Dems outraged at losing the Public Option next year first).

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

"Obama and the Spendocrats are well on their way to destroying this Nation. "

Do you see what I mean, Chris? Examine the comments from the posters here at the Fix. Those from the right ALL engage in this kind of remark -- that Obama is destrying this country.

This sort of incendiary comment is taking political 'discourse' to some crazy new level of hyperbole and the right to new and more intense levels of mental illness and violent fantasy.

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

drindl:

At least Yitzhak Rabin was actually born in Jerusalem ; )

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

A stalking horse is a metaphor.
Briefly, the goal of that type of hunt is to kill the animal that is focused on the horse and not on the hunter.

The Public Option is the focus of the enemies of this legislation. They are trying to make the 'Libs' lose something
they are supposed to cherish.

In so doing, the crucial main of (almost) universal coverage paid for by all of us passes. It will be grotesquely inefficient, but once universal coverage paid for by all of us is the law, something we get used to, then real health reform comes next.

So go ahead kill us on the public option.
Declare victory.

Posted by: shrink2 | September 30, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Careful, Bubbette1, or you will be denounced as a "murderer" or "racist". Luckily, for us, the law is on our side:

"Urging or instigating other persons to riot, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts."

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Yes, Chris, you are ignoring the elephant in the room in terms of what is really happening in this country politically. Friedman from the Times today:

"I was in Israel interviewing Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin just before he was assassinated in 1995. We had a beer in his office. He needed one. I remember the ugly mood in Israel then — a mood in which extreme right-wing settlers and politicians were doing all they could to delegitimize Rabin, who was committed to trading land for peace as part of the Oslo accords. They questioned his authority. They accused him of treason. They created pictures depicting him as a Nazi SS officer, and they shouted death threats at rallies. His political opponents winked at it all.

And in so doing they created a poisonous political environment that was interpreted by one right-wing Jewish nationalist as a license to kill Rabin — he must have heard, “God will be on your side” — and so he did.

Others have already remarked on this analogy, but I want to add my voice because the parallels to Israel then and America today turn my stomach: I have no problem with any of the substantive criticism of President Obama from the right or left.

But something very dangerous is happening. Criticism from the far right has begun tipping over into delegitimation and creating the same kind of climate here that existed in Israel on the eve of the Rabin assassination."

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Obama and the Spendocrats are well on their way to destroying this Nation. If health care reform and cap and tax are rammed through it will be the greatest injury to our Constitution and way of life in our history. Stand against health care reform and cap and trade. No doubt there is reasonable health care reform but that is not what the Spendocrats want. They want a public option to build the largest bureaucracy in the world and then unionize it.

We are broke. The Spendocrats continue to borrow and create debt. The economy continues to go down, we are bleeding jobs and these idiots are standing around debating health care and cap and tax. Fix the economy and jobs you idiots.

We need to introduce a bill to compel all Senators, Congressional Representatives and the White House to mandatory debt counseling.

2010 cannot get here soon enough to start cleaning out these idiots. Vote fiscal conservative and restore the economy and jobs.

Posted by: Bubbette1 | September 30, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Pointing out that Obama is an enemy of humanity -- as is any pro-choice politician -- is hardly "inciting people to murder" (even assuming he is legally President of the United States ; )

Look up that law too.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

A little taste of their own medicine and they scream like school girls. It's pretty amusing.

drindl is right. I don't understand why don't you take a firmer stand against the people who's intent is really to destroy our country.

Posted by: mbjorke | September 30, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Inciting people to murder the president is not covered under the first amendment, mental patient with violent tendencies.

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Or how about this? why don't you write about this?

"At the How To Take Back America Conference last weekend, conservative speaker Kitty Werthmann led a workshop called “How to recognize living under Nazis & Communists.”

Announcing the panel in a column preceding the conference, talk show host Janet Porter gushed how Werthmann’s description of Austria in the 1930s is a “mirror to America” today — noting “They had Joseph Goebbels; we have Mark Lloyd, the diversity czar.” The room was packed over capacity to hear Werthmann, who grew up as a Christian in Austria and serves as Phyllis Schlafly’s Eagle Forum South Dakota President.

During her session, Werthmann went through a litany of examples of how President Obama is like Adolf Hitler. She noted that Hitler, who acted “like an American politician,” was “elected in a 100% Christian nation.” Although she failed to once mention Antisemitism or militarism, Werthmann explained how universal healthcare, an Equal Rights Amendment, and increased taxes were telltale signs of Nazism. Werthmann also warned the audience:

If we had our guns, we would have fought a bloody battle. So, keep your guns, and buy more guns, and buy ammunition. [...] Take back America. "


Bet you didn't know universal healthcare was a 'telltale sign of Nazism, did you? I bet people in Canada will be suprised to find that out.

And what do you thnk of the idea that at the main 'conservative' confab, they are urging people to violently overthrow the government? Don't you think that's worth talking about?

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

drindl:

Try looking up the FIRST AMENDMENT someday.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

"P.S. to thecorinthian: pResident Obama IS an enemy of humanity."

CHRIS -- this comment is very offensive to most of us. Why do you allow this kind of vile hate speech at the Fix?

Why don't you do a column about this very thing? The hate speech, the assasination rhetoric that has now become common at repubican gatherings? Like this:

At the How to Take Back America conference last weekend, attended by several Republican lawmakers, former Reagan official and prominent neoconservative Frank Gaffney, right-wing historian Bill Federer, and Christian activist Walid Shoebat hosted a panel on “How to understand Islam.” An attendee of the panel asked the three speakers if they would consider President Obama a Christian or a Muslim, given his “roots.” While Gaffney gave a now familiar response linking Obama to the Muslim Brotherhood, Federer and Shoebat provided new theories, which elicited praise from the crowd:

GAFFNEY: If Bill Clinton, on the basis of special interest pandering and identity politics, was properly called the first Black American President, on that same basis, Barack Obama should be called the first Muslim American President. […] But there is evidence that a lot of Muslims think he is Muslim. But whether he is or whether he isn’t, the key to me, is is he pursuing that is indistinguishable in important respects from that of the Muslim Brotherhood, whose mission ladies and gentlemen, we know from a trial in Dallas last year, is to quote to destroy Western civilization from within by its own miserable hand. That’s what we need to keep our eye on."

Here Frank Gaffney -- and I am quite you know how influential he is in the R party, is accusing Obama of pursing policies to 'destroy Western civilization from within.'

What these people are trying to do is get some nutter to kill Obama, and I think that's clear to anyone paying attention.

Afraid to touch it?

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Grayson is a bomb thrower and a bully. I live in Central Florida and do not think he or Democrat Kosmos in my district are going to survive the 2010 election.

Posted by: saelij | September 30, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

shrink2:

Did you read mark_in_austin's posts yesterday as to why he would vote against the public option if he were a Senator? Or, you are going to dismiss him as lacking any "rational grounding" because he's a lawyer too?

Time for liberals to "regroup":

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/09/30/liberals_regroup_after_public.html

P.S. to thecorinthian: pResident Obama IS an enemy of humanity.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

One more difference. When Wilson called Obama a liar, it was accurate. This time, it's just a bad joke.

No one believes Carter 2 anymore. His credibility is shot. He should have waited until his second term to get caught, like the last dem.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Grayson intentionally over-stated his case. It’s not that Republicans want to kill people; it’s that their opposition to meaningful health care reform and their “free market” alternatives would further deregulate insurers and allow companies to continue pushing individuals into high deductible policies that don’t provide adequate coverage and actually harm Americans who can’t afford their medical bills:

“Don’t get sick.” Under the Republican alternatives, private insurers will deny coverage to Americans who suffer from chronic illnesses like cancers or asthma and lure healthier applicants into high deductible policies that provide limited coverage once they become sick.

“Die quickly.” If Americans in these policies do fall ill, they will go bankrupt paying off their medical bills and join the 78 percent of bankruptcy filers burdened by health care expenses who had health insurance but “still were overwhelmed by their medical debt.” Grayson is facetiously suggesting that Americans would be urged to skip the “bankruptcy” part, avoid being a financial burden on their family, and simply pass away.

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

sverigegrabb, so far you have probably the best analysis from what i've read. Wilson blew his temper in front of a national audience and Grayson has yet another episode that brings into question his temperament. While I personally can't stand Grayson, I give him credit for likely term-limiting his career when you factor in he represents a purple district in a state that has soured on Obama since November-especially on the Health Care debate. I'm sure he can get a show on MSNBC next fall if he wants it. I will say now that Sheila Jackson Lee and Mike Honda, among others, are pushing for illegal immigrants to be included under ObamaCare, I guess Wilson will end up being vindicated after all

Posted by: TexasProud1 | September 30, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

hey -- good one, blarg.

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Maybe Barry could do some weddings and mitzvahs. I don't think he gets out enough. I haven't seen him in hours. Oh wait. There he is at NIH. Carter 2 is busy spending money again. Does he ever actually work on legislation or just run for higher office. Next up emperor of the UN.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

What about Arizona Republican Representative Trent Franks who called Obama an "enemy of humanity?" Not even in regard to any of his policy positions, but Obama himself.

http://www.dailykostv.com/w/002199/

Posted by: thecorinthian | September 30, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Face it, Chris,

Two wrongs don't make a right. Both Wilson and Greyson are stupid tossers, regardless of whether a 'D.' or an 'R.' precedes their names!

Posted by: sverigegrabb | September 30, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

GOP hissy fit. Remember how Chris farley would whip himself up into a frenzy over something littel until he became incoherent and collapsed? I'm thinking of that.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | September 30, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

No it is the tiresome "last boat" tactic.
When a race is being lost, the boat with no chance to win will try to create havoc (near misses, official protests, challenges) in order to cause the outcome of the race to remain in question. No rational grounding exists, the intent is to raise too many issues, to distract from the outcome and wish for an engineered victory. It is a legal tactic too and remember, almost all of these people are lawyers.

Posted by: shrink2 | September 30, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

The simple fact is even with 60 votes in the senate, a big majority in the house and the rudderless executive, the democrats just can't seem to muster an ounce of leadership. Can't scrounge together a crumb of competence.

Who' s to blame. Not them.

Even dem voters aren't that clueless. Well some are. Buyers remorse heading for landslide.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Sophomoric to be sure but nothing that will work too well in a commercial against him. No effect on reelection one way or the other

Posted by: terrancesnyder | September 30, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Congrats, blarg. You post, and within minutes CC writes an "addendum."

Posted by: justjoeking | September 30, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Grayson has raised his profile a bit. He will likely get some donations based on this bit of theatre. If he lucked into his seat due to his opponents missteps and Obama's coattails, he might as well go "all in."

Posted by: justjoeking | September 30, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

After all the lies and pure bullsh*t republicans have pullled about the democrat's health plan, incluidng 'pulling the plug on granny' their predictable and tiresome 'outrage' about this is hilarious.

Do 'conservatives' have no sense of self'awareness whatsoever? Are they really this clueless and hypocritical?

shrink, what would you call this? Mass Narcissicism?

Posted by: drindl | September 30, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

The difference between Grayson and Wilson is that Wilson shouted at the president on live TV. Grayson's presentation may have been covered on C-SPAN, and now it's on YouTube. The scale is totally different. Grayson's presentation might anger a few partisans, but it won't become a nationwide news story like Wilson's outburst.

Posted by: Blarg | September 30, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Democrats are becoming unhinged as their grasp on power slips away due to complete and utter ineptitude.

Present ident Carter 2 jets off to Denmark to provide local graft in Chicago while dc burns.

Posted by: snowbama | September 30, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Grayson did leave out part of the Republican plan--the part where they use health care as a back-door way of legislating new anti-immigration laws.

Perhaps that omission is why the GOP is upset with their spokesman.

Posted by: justjoeking | September 30, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

If Eric Cantor is pushing this out there, then we can thank him for finally explaining the Republican Plan. I'm not sure why he needed a Democrat to explain it--I guess it's their version of bipartisanship.

Thanks, Eric!

Posted by: justjoeking | September 30, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Well it is only money; it is to be spent in America on the American Health Industry workers and our health service infrastructure. It is to be a massive, truly massive public works project.

Hopefully it will be the last great borrowing spree before the new fiscal discipline (the one nostalgic people have blabbed about for decades) is forced on us by our Asian bond raters.

It will serve many purposes that are good, for one, like Russia, will no longer be able to project armed forces all over the world, no more American little wars.

Posted by: shrink2 | September 30, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Grayson seems to be auditioning for a show on MSNBC or Air America after he loses next fall-what strategist would tell their boss to act more beligerant than barney frank when your district is, at best, a purple district with red tendencies? This guy is the democratic version of Santorum and we all know how his re-election went

Posted by: TexasProud1 | September 30, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

shrink2:

That and Obamacare for illegal aliens, don't forget that too.

Posted by: JakeD | September 30, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Republicans call it a Trojan Horse.
But the Public Option is a stalking horse and it is working. Focusing Republican energy on it is allowing the key parts of the Great Health Industry Stimulus Package of 2010 to pass.

Posted by: shrink2 | September 30, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

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