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The Showdown in St. Louis: First Thoughts



Delaware Sen. Joe Biden and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin stayed on message and avoided any major gaffes. Will either performance move the needle? (AP Photo/Ron Edmonds)

The first -- and only -- vice presidential debate between Delaware Sen. Joe Biden and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is in the books.

And, for a debate that was as highly anticipated as any political event in recent memory, there were far fewer fireworks than many expected -- with Palin holding her own (most of the time) on policy matters and Biden avoiding any sort of verbal gaffe.

We leave the picking of winners and losers (and why) to the Fixistas. The comments section will be open all night long.

Our first thoughts after watching the debate are below. And, don't forget to check out the "Debate Decoder" later tonight for all the news and analysis you would ever want about the Showdown in St. Louis.

Palin = folksy: A decision was clearly made by the top strategists in the campaign of John McCain to embrace rather than run from Palin's tendency toward folksiness. Right from the start of the debate -- "Can I call you Joe," she asked Biden -- her appeal to the "average Joe" was on full display. She regularly used phrases like "you betcha" and "darn right" in an attempt to accentuate the differences between herself and the smooth-talking, senatorial Biden. Biden helped Palin out -- especially in the middle 20 minutes of the debate -- by occasionally lapsing into senatorial-ese and talking too much. Palin came across as decidedly likeable and down to earth. But did she come across as vice presidential? And, does that even matter in a year when the operative word is "change"?

Biden = competent: Biden, who is among the most animated politicians in America when on the stump, was purposely low key and reserved tonight -- echoing the approach that Barack Obama used last week in his debate against McCain. Biden demonstrated considerable command over every issue thrown at him and, in fact, sometimes seemed to be trying to stuff 10 pounds of knowledge in a five-pound bag. But, overall, it's hard to watch that debate and not get the sense that Biden is eminently qualified to be vice president. Of course, that argument is based on his years of experience in the Senate; and, is that a good thing in a year when the operative word is "change"?

On Message: One of the reasons the debate produced no "You're no Jack Kennedy" sort of lines is because both candidates stuck to their talking points to a fault. Palin came into the debate with three goals: show she could hold her own, cast McCain as a "maverick" and drive a wedge between the issue positions of Biden and Obama. To borrow a phrase: Mission Accomplished. Biden was dead set on making the case for Obama as change agent and McCain as Bush heir. Again, mission accomplished. The candidates had other reasons to stick to the talking points; Palin, a total newcomer on the national scene is clearly still getting up to speed on the issues while Biden wanted to make sure he didn't freelance himself (and Obama) into trouble.

Statistics Do Lie: Biden repeatedly recited a series of facts and figures -- 877, 20 -- to make his points about McCain not being a maverick. Palin, occasionally, did the same -- noting the oft-repeated Republican attack that Obama has voted against cutting taxes 94 times. The problem? Average voters are savvy: they know that numbers and figures can be twisted to a partisan purpose and, therefore, tend to discount the laundry lists of statistics that politicians throw around in debates.

Moment of the Debate: Biden had the most memorable moment of the night when, in recounting the loss of his wife and daughter in a car accident, he teared up. Real emotion works in politics because it shows voters that these men and women are not so different than them. Biden is a guy who wears his heart on his sleeve and he used that personality trait in a good way tonight.

Ifill's Hands Off Approach: Gwen Ifill's decision to stick to the script -- a general question with a few moments of follow up by the candidates -- played into Palin's hands. Ifill rarely, if ever, went back to question a point made by either candidate, an approach that allowed Palin to stay on her talking points without being rattled. Palin also benefited from the focus on domestic issues -- particularly energy -- in the first half of the debate. By the time she was talking about Iraq and Afghanistan -- Biden's wheelhouse -- lots of people were likely channel surfing. Palin's worst answer -- a stumbling, bumbling attempt to explain the role of the vice presidency -- came in the debate's final 15 minutes, another lucky break for the Alaska governor.

By Paul Volpe  |  October 2, 2008; 11:31 PM ET
 
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Next: VIDEO: Fix on the Debate

Comments

Have you heard about the infamous Republican state convention in Nevada? Here is a link to a video with all the details:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgy6J6jCyBQ

Posted by: robert_holloway | October 5, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin belongs nowhere near the White House.I was disappointed she didn't get a chance to talk about the air space up there in Alaska that gives her some foreign policy experience.She is clueless and this debate did not change that fact.I hope the facts about troopergate come out before the election,abuse of power is a serious issue.

Posted by: smhtriple7 | October 4, 2008 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Ms Palin may very well represents average Americans but to be a VP? average is not enough!

Posted by: wenchen6686 | October 4, 2008 3:24 AM | Report abuse

this board is full of obama supporters who are rude to anyone who has a different opinion.
sorry obama will never be president he is a muslim and black and the country is not ready for it.

Posted by: zmartha7 | October 4, 2008 12:42 AM | Report abuse

was hillary's supporter and now i am leaning toward mccain. obama is not experienced and i am very scared to have him in the white house. his association with rev wright for 20 years proves that he hates america.
Sarah Palin did great. and i trust that the mccain - palin ticket will be better for the country.
the polls show obama leading, but at the moment of truth in the booth - people will not vote for a muslim.
biden is definitly not representing change

Posted by: zmartha7 | October 4, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse

SEN. BIDEN WAS TRYING TO HYPNOTIZE US INTO THINKING SEN. MCCAIN IS BUSH.

* Sen. Biden = you are getting sleepy, McCain is Bush, McCain is Bush, McCain is Bush etc.. This is Sen. Biden only argument why Americans should vote Obama/Biden.

* This is what liberal pundits calls substantive. Give me a break!!!!!!

BTW, OBAMA SUPPORTERS, PLEASE ENJOY THE HUMBLE PIE GOV. PALIN GAVE TO YOU LAST NIGHT.

Posted by: oldgirl1 | October 3, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse

I was amazed that there was no discussion or even recognition that the biggest threat the USA faces in the future is not from the nook-yuh-ler development program in Iran, it is from a dirty nuclear bomb from any fanatical group within the USA.

How can the USA begin to ban nuclear development in the third world when all countries will be desperately seeking every form of alternate energy to save the planet if what the scientists say is right on climate change?

This will be the dilemma that the USA has to solve when inevitably it becomes possible to construct a dirty bomb in some small workshop in downtown USA.
In this scenario any global threat of deterrence from the USA’s massive military will be as meaningless as the USAF on 9/11 2001.

Posted by: KingofCool | October 3, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Try reading the rest of my post, genius. Gotta love that friendly fire...

----------

My bad. Gotten too annoyed by these willfully ignorant Republicans.

Posted by: ehperkins1971 | October 3, 2008 11:04 PM | Report abuse

KMichaels is also wrong. Palin doesn't understand the Constitution. Again Article 1, Section 3, paragraph 4 states:

"The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided."

That's it. There is no flexibility in that. The Vice President has no overt say in how the Senate transacts it's business. He/She cannot vote so therefore is only relegated to using personal/political influence to make anything happen in the legislature. The President of the Senate is largely a ceremonial role of calling the sessions to order and managing the debate. Only when the Senate is split 50/50 does the VP have any say at all. So for Palin to talk about the Founding Fathers giving her flexibility to exert power in the legislature if she so chose to exercise it shows a fundamental ignorance of the role of the Vice President. There's a reason the principle of "checks and balances" is so vitally important. If the Vice President actually had power over the Senate, the Legislative branch might as well not exist because it could never act independently of the Executive. What you saw her display was just her ego flooding out her ears at the prospect of having power hence the enormous smile that grew across her face.

If you look at the last segment of the Katie Couric interview which is filed under interviews with the candidates, you will see clear evidence that Palin is truly clueless about what the Constitution says. Couric asked her, "what does the separation of church and state mean to you?" Palin answered by saying the government can't tell you what religion you can follow. If she is that ignorant of one of the most fundamental principles of the American republic, there's no way she's is even remotely fit for the second highest office in the land. The President and by extension the Vice President should be a good steward of the public trust. If the President and/or the Vice President is ignorant of what their roles, responsibilities, and limitations are there's no way they could ever govern effectively and judiciously. You Republicans need to go take an eight grade social studies course to brush up on your Constitutional law.

Posted by: ehperkins1971 | October 3, 2008 10:56 PM | Report abuse

Try reading the rest of my post, genius. Gotta love that friendly fire...

Posted by: youarestillidiots | October 3, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

Mr. "youarestillidiots" is wrong. Hopefully someone has already pointed this out. Biden was right about where the vice president's legistative duties are stated. Article 1, Section 3. He's the idiot because he didn't read the Constitution.

Posted by: ehperkins1971 | October 3, 2008 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Kmichaels has me convinced. Biden, in arguing for a return to the traditional job description of the VP, said "Article I" when he meant "Article II," and he didn't make clear that the VP "presides" even when not voting to break a tie. Gotcha, Joe!

Palin sagely avoided becoming factual enough to risk a mistake. She merely tossed out some floaters about "flexibility" and made assertions about wanting more authority over Congress, leaving the door open for a continuation of Cheney's mind-bending warpage of the VP role in pursuit of the 'unitary executive' theory.

No contest there. Why put up with Biden's misstatements when we could have ourselves a real Moose Queen granting herself plenary quasiexeculegislamative powers{tm} based on nothing but raw gut instinct!

____

Then there's 'exceptionalism', a topic on which Palin declared us "a nation of exceptionalism" before going on about America as a shining city on a hill. Despite that context, my friends, we must pay absolutely no attention to the firmly established meaning of the phrase "American exceptionalism" as an assertion of the superiority of American ideals--and by extension, its motives and its actions.

Now, Kmichaels helpfully informs us that anyone who rejects this premise as arrogant must be an anti-American socialist, but that's beside the point, 'cause when she said "exceptionalism" Sarah was actually referring to American WORKERS. Didn't you know our workers are the most important "-ism" we have! You don't have anything against THEM, do you?

It's a lot like when John McCain said the "fundamentals of our economy are strong"; he actually meant "workers".

Now, no American (outside of maybe Phil Gramm) would ever suggest American workers are "weak". But just because John McCain found it necessary to assert the opposite anyway, that doesn't mean we should be suspicious, or recklessly assume that he really meant "the fundamentals of our economy" when he used the phrase "the fundamentals of our economy".

It's all so clear now, even to a Obama loving idiot like me!

Keep those convincing posts coming, please!

Posted by: youarestillidiots | October 3, 2008 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Great salesperson? So were the guys who sold Joe Sixpack the VRM's. You betcha.

Posted by: daweeni | October 3, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), whose symptoms include

1) An exaggerated sense of self-importance; exaggerates achievements and talents; expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements
2) Need for excessive admiration
3) A sense of entitlement
4) Selfishness; taking advantage of others to achieve own ends
5) Lack of empathy
6) Arrogant, haughty, patronizing, or contemptuous behavior or attitudes.

Posted by: KMichaels | October 3, 2008 4:06 PM | Report abuse

WCWINC and SAGEDUTCH
You are the ones who don't get it. Most of the American people are proud of their country and ashamed of what has recently happened to it. We are also afraid that Rwonks like Bush, McCain and Palin will sooner rather than later turn us into a third world military dictatorship.
We want as, Arlo Guthrie once sang, to "...try to rekindle the Patriot's dream" that's what Obama and Biden are about as well.
Give it UP!!!!! We are ALL Americans.
Posted by: wwwqueen | October 3, 2008 9:54 AM

Sorry... queen
I DO GET IT ...obama is my senator
and i have seen what he's done for years
and if you want to see a third world dictatorship look at what he and his mentors have done FOR and TO illinois

Body count: In the last six months
292 killed (murdered) in Chicago ;
221 killed in Iraq .

Sen. Barack Obama
Sen. Dick Durbin
Mayor Richard M. Daley
Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr.
Gov. Rod Blogojevich,
Mike Madigan - House Majority Leader
Emil Jones - Senate Majority Leader
Todd Stroger - Cook County Board President
.....Our leadership in Illinois .....
All Democrats Can't Blame Republicans there aren't any !

State pension fund $44 Billion in Debt,
Worst in Country.

Cook County ( Chicago ) Sales Tax 10.25%
Highest in Country.

Chicago School System Rated
One of the Worst in the Country.

This is the political culture
and these are the mentors
that Obama comes from in Illinois .
And he's gonna "FIX" Washington politics for us

Posted by: wcwinc | October 3, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

I laughed every time Palin launched fervently into a non-answer because it reminds me of a Miss Universe pageant I watched a number of years ago in which the contestant from a non-English speaking country (which shall remain nameless), when asked by the host how she was enjoying the locale, answered "I plan to become a fashion designer." As a former beauty pageant contestant, she is no stranger to being coached for something like this. I have to say she was coached well though; she did not say 'nukular' even once. I guess her coaching staff decided it would remind people too much of W.

Posted by: HCNY1105 | October 3, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Now one of the idiot Obamites are b-tching because Sarah called the US workers exceptional. Apparently for the idiot Obamite leftist crowds saying that American workers are exceptional constitutes fascism.

Please, go settle in some nice socialist country where you belong. Then your anti-American BS will be perfectly accepted.

You people are shameless fools.

Posted by: KMichaels | October 3, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Idiot Obamites are claiming that it was Palin that was ignorant of US constitutional law.

How is that so?

She was right about both constitutional issues and Biden was wrong.

Do the idiot Obamites simply believe every idiotic clueless claim their leaders make, without actual fact checking?

Biden was wrong on saying that Article one deals with executive issues when it deals with legislative. How long has he been working for the government again?

He also claimed that the Vice President did not always preside over the Senate. He confused presiding with voting, which is a totally different situation.

Obamites tend to be as dumb as a bag of hammers and the clanging clueless noises of the Obamite posters on this board just prove the point.

Posted by: KMichaels | October 3, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

For LonestarJR:

Please dear God never let me sit at a poker table with you. Nice going in spotting Failin's tell.

Posted by: VeloStrummer | October 3, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Sarah Palin stop the bleeding at all. The same problems Sarah Palin went into the with are the same comming out of the debate. Sarah's problem is she just doesn't know enough to be V.P., She's not well versed on the issues, let alone Mccains positions on the issues, Sarah can't speak with authority on a variety of issues. The debate was proof of that. On several instances, she dodged the moderators questions and spoke about what she wanted to speak about. Thats not having command of the issues, because I would have like her to answer the question being her problem is not being able to give good answers or speak in great detail on different issues. Being we'll versed on 2 issues whether if you agree with Palin or not just isn't enough. Why? were facing turmoil in this country of several different issues and we need a president and vice president that atleast understand and have a perception on them. Sarah Palin doesn't understand nor has a perception on a variety of issues. Joe Biden said another thing during the debate, he said that he agree's with Obama on many issues. Palin doesn't agree with Mccain on taxing oil companies, drilling in Anwar, and the other 1,000 issues we wont know if she agrees with Mccain or not because Palin doesn't have knowledge of them and thats the problem. How can anybody run as VP canidate and can't answer simple questions during a interview and especially during a debate. I think the American people were cheated and thats why Biden won the debate 51-36. Palin clearly not ready to be VP especially nor Mccain's VP.

Posted by: amosdefnails | October 3, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

I was left with the feeling that Ms. Palin was still trying to win Miss Alaska instead of running for Vice President of the United States. Cutesy gets you Miss Alaska - confidence and knowledge get you the Vice Presidency.

Posted by: gtnaustin | October 3, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

PS: Chris made a backhanded slam at Gwen Ifill.

Knowing she was an Obama supporter, I expected her to act like any media person, say from the WaPo, NBC,MSNBC, CNN, etc. to do an underhanded attack on Palin.

Instead Gwen was a true professional. She lived up to exactly what she said she would do. A very rare thing with the national media thses days.

NBC's Brian Williams should take lessons from Gwen. He is the perfect bad example of moderator to her professional job well done.

I salute you, Gwen Ifill!

Posted by: wj_phillips | October 3, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Norm7007 wrote:

GOTCHA: The vice-presidential-power follow-up was a lawyer’s “gotcha” question. Cheney’s lawyers have argued that his Article 1 Legislative role as President of the Senate adds to his Article 2 Executive powers as President-in-waiting. Non-lawyer Palin missed this thrust of the follow-up and gave the “stumbling, bumbling” “worst answer” you describe. Biden, a lawyer, strongly criticized the Cheney view but got some basic facts wrong: Article 2 is the Constitution’s Executive article, not Article 1, and the Vice President is always the presiding officer of the Senate, not only when there is a tie vote.

---------

First off it was not a "gotcha" question nor was it a follow-up. Check the full transcript of the debate and you can see for yourself:

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/vice-presidential-debate.html

Given Cheney's attempt to expand the constitutional powers of the Vice President it was a perfectly legitimate question to put to the candidates. And I believe Biden's answer was a correct interpretation of Articles I and II and the power of the Vice President. But I agree that he mis-spoke when he identified Article I as the Executive article. It is as you say Article II that enumerates the Executive power. Otherwise IMO Biden was right and Cheney is wrong. Sooner or later the SCOTUS will decide, no doubt...

Posted by: truthtopower40 | October 3, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD: No, it doesn't cover it. BARACK OBAMA IS A RACIST WHITE--HATER AND AMERICA--HATER. Reason? No one becomes a member and supporter of a racist white--hating and America--hating church for more than 20 years unless they agree with what's going on and what's being taught. If John McCain or Sarah Palin had been a member and supporter of a similar, but BLACK--HATING church, you and the rest of your racist clique would be going balistic with your phony AND RACIST outrage. Racial hatred is a two-way street and works both ways.

Posted by: armpeg | October 3, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

"They are vile, vicious smearers with little regard for the truth. "

WjPhillips, your agist remarks sting me so! Boohoo, cry, wail.

Not.

Take a good, hard look at some of the awful, despicable things many Republicans are saying lately due to their uncertainty (or whatever reason it may be, I don't read minds). For someone making such criticisms, you don't seem like you want to do an important thing:

improve the quality of the debate.

If you're not going to, then just keep your offensive and telling remarks to yourself.

Posted by: hijikatatoshizo | October 3, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

KMichaels said:

"Biden said that the Vice President does not always preside over the senate, only when there is a tie vote. But here is what the constitution actually says:

"The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided."

The vice president is ALWAYS the president of the Senate but shall have no vote unless of a tie.

Biden wanted to play gotcha on Sarah Palin but it backfired and made him look the fool, again.

Biden also said that US Constitution article one dealt with the executive branch but it deals with the legislative branch. Yes, we know that Obamites dont know the difference but surely a lawyer 35 year politician should know better between the legistlative and executive branches."

Here's the scoop.

The VP doesn't always sit in on the senate. The Senate decides on a president pro tempore to preside in his stead, or colloquially, a presiding officer, as per the senate rules of parliamentary debate.
He has no power other than to call to adjournment or other trivial matters of procedure EXCEPT in the event of a tie.

His point was to indicate that Palin was misinterpreting the role of Vice President much like Dick Cheney, who wants a "Super-VP" of sorts. Mrs. Palin has clearly NO knowledge of Constitutional Law, and to suggest that 'Obamites' have a similar lack is just arrogant posturing on your part and beneath someone who wishes to make a valid point.

So he mixed up two Articles...it was very obvious which one he was referencing, since you were able to go and quote it, right?

Why won't someone address the 'gaffes' that Mrs. Palin makes left and right? Oh yeah, I forgot, it's sexist to call her on it. My bad. Nevermind that a huge number of the people saying that her detractors are sexist are actually right-wing white males.

Posted by: hijikatatoshizo | October 3, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse


From the vote on who won the debate it is easy to see that Obama's internet supporters rule the roost on the WaPo. Most are young, and you can see from reading the posts they have the thoughtless of the youth.

Obama's internet supporters acr more like thugs than anything. They are vile, vicious smearers with little regard for the truth. If lie sounds better they use it. They make the swift boaters look like choir boys.

Obama appears more as a cult leader than a potential president.

And lastly, note that Chris gets in his usual "innocent" slams against any opponent of Obama.

Posted by: wj_phillips | October 3, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Why dont the MSM point out the obvious about Biden harping on the surge not working in Afghanistan? What is the surge? An increase in troops. What has Biden and Obama asked for in Afghanistan? An increase of troops in Afghanistan.

So, what the hell was Biden talking about then? He apparently equates the concept of a troop surge with the entirety of our approach in Iraq. That is his gaffe once again. The surge has to do with troop increase.

Palin was correct that a troop increase in Afghanistan would help and Obama and Biden have both called for the same.

But good ole boy Joe wanted to play a gotcha on Palin. Again, it backfired and makes him look like a fool.

Now, have the MSM predictably come to the rescue of Biden? Of course, they cant help themselves. They did some research and point out that the US leader in Afghanistan has said that the techniques used in Iraq would not all work in Afghanistan. So they claim that Biden is right. Well, damn it. Get the facts straight. The US leader in Afghanistan has asked for more troops (a surge) and was talking about something totally different than what Biden was talking about.

Biden was given a free pass on yet another huge gaffe and the MSM just kiss his butt like it was going out of style.

Now, here is where Biden thinks he can get away with his lie and misrepresentation. General McKiernan said that he did not like to use the word surge because he wants the troops to be more permanent, and not temporary. But he is not saying that he does not want more troops, as Biden implied.

Neither McCain nor Palin have said that they want the troop increase in Afghanistan to be temporary. Their belief is always the same. Stay in till the job gets done.

The Obama Biden belief is stay in till it becomes politically unpopular, then say whatever the hell it takes to get more cheap votes.

Posted by: KMichaels | October 3, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

"For all you Obama lovers, go to www.HumanEvents.com and read."

Um, yes. Go see what the objective Ann Coulter has to say on the topic.

Trust me, there's nothing there that Obama lovers haven't heard before. Middle name is Hussein, he has ties to Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers, and he's a Communist. Also, his wife hates America.

There, that pretty much covers it, right?

Posted by: DDAWD | October 3, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Firefly1097 said:

"For all you Obama lovers,[...]"

I love how anyone who says that Sarah Palin should be judged to high standards is a sexist but nobody calls anyone on the underlying defaming language people use to describe Barack Obama. Maybe it's because he is the bigger man and will not make himself look like a victim (wise choice).

Obama-lover. Just imagine another word there and you have the watchword for an entire philosophy of hate and discrimination. I will not repeat that phrase here. I'll leave it to your (hopefully) educated opinions.

Never mind that McCain is physically unfit for office at 72, several bouts with cancer, possible Alzheimer's Syndrome, and some say a small (but not major) stroke recently (small wonder his medical records have been, if you'll excuse the pun, doctored).

Never mind that the other half of the ticket frankly admitted that she will not answer questions in the debate. Never mind that her boss almost didn't go to his so he could play cowboy.

Never mind especially that now with McCain-Palin faltering in the polls, you see the resurgence of the typical Republican tripe about "Watch out! They're gonna raise taxes!". The economy is taking a major dive (oh wait, I thought it was 'fundamentally strong', my apologies, Senator!) and they're talking about who will increase taxes?

A friend of who makes over $250,000 a year (the bracket which WILL recieve slightly elevated taxes under Obama-Biden) calculated about how much the increase would cost him per year.

$12.00.

Let's extrapolate and say that was $12/month instead of per year. That's still only $144.00. A $144.00 increase in taxes on an income of $250,000 amounts to 0.00057%.

Who will pay the big taxes? The millionaires that, for too long, have been sucking the country dry.

Am I one of the few people in this country who thinks this election is utterly ridiculous? Someone, prove me wrong, please.

Posted by: hijikatatoshizo | October 3, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

If this matters, Mccain,s stock on intrade is about to drop into the 20's while Obama is at an all time high and approaching the 70's.
I think Palin last night hurt him a bit for what it is worth.

Posted by: popasmoke | October 3, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

NO MAJOR BIDEN GAFFE?

Think again.

How is it that a guy that is both a lawyer and in politics for 35 years missed two key facts about the US constitution.

How is it that Sarah Palin got both issues correct and Joe Biden got both issues totally wrong?

Biden said that the Vice President does not always preside over the senate, only when there is a tie vote. But here is what the constitution actually says:

"The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided."

The vice president is ALWAYS the president of the Senate but shall have no vote unless of a tie.

Biden wanted to play gotcha on Sarah Palin but it backfired and made him look the fool, again.

Biden also said that US Constitution article one dealt with the executive branch but it deals with the legislative branch. Yes, we know that Obamites dont know the difference but surely a lawyer 35 year politician should know better between the legistlative and executive branches.

Palin was correct on both issues and Biden was wrong on both issues.

The MSM predictably is calling Biden the winner because they are too darn stupid to check how many factual errors that Biden spewed.

If it were not for MSM lad dogs deep in the pocket of the Obama camp then the election would not even be close.

Palin connected with the American voters and Biden spewing all his false crap connected to the leftist media.

Posted by: KMichaels | October 3, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

It is a little late and they cost money. You notice how many ad's Mccain runs on youtube? Maybe a few hundred thousand people see them at best. Obama makes ad buys in prime time and tens of millions of people see Obama's message. Obama has now morphed to the message part of the campaign time, with the end game beginning to unfold. They are 1 to 2 minute messages with Obama making his case directly to the American people in a rational straight forward way run in big markets and prime time. He has some running in Florida that are killers and real deal closers. There are still some negative ad's being run by Obama but they are very well done. and not on youtube but in good markets. Mccains ad's look like they are done by kids for their myspace pages. Watch how this all plays out over the next few weeks and you will understand how carefully this was choreographed from months ago.


--------------
I think osama an biden have peaked too early, there will commence a flood of
commercials starring hillary and biden
trashing him, and coming from dem's
it will take a toll.
and palin is a cultural icon,
thanks to the liberal left.
Thank You.
just to be compared to ronald reagan
and bill clinton puts her miles above
the freshman senator from Daly Town.

Posted by: USA3 | October 3, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: popasmoke | October 3, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

King_of_Zouk said:

"I see that the list of Biden's lies is above 20 now. I know Liberals are too stupid to gather facts but is blatent lying now the manor or gaining office?

Never mind, I know the answer already."

Here's an answwer:

Manor - noun- a large house, or mansion.

You meant 'manner'. So learn a little bit of English before calling anyone to the left of you stupid. And spell blatant correctly too.

I'm so sorry your candidate is an airhead but you don't need to act like one either.

Posted by: hijikatatoshizo | October 3, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

For all you Obama lovers, go to www.HumanEvents.com and read.

Posted by: firefly1097 | October 3, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Joe Biden Won the contest of
who has the biggest ovaries'
his tears were touching.

Posted by: USA3 | October 3, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

I heard Biden numerous times accuse Bush for the situation our economy is in. Who really signed the bill for these mortgage companies to do as they did? Clinton, Bush took over a mess already and is being blamed for ALL of it. Both Bush AND McCain warned about what was coming months ago. Obama is #2 for Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac contributions, so it makes sense to me he votes in their favor. No money went to McCain/Palin.
We have lots of friends that live in Alaska and they all love her for what she has done for that state. Most are not full time residents and do not get all the benefits that a resident does, but they still love her.

Posted by: firefly1097 | October 3, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I think osama an biden have peaked too early, there will commence a flood of
commercials starring hillary and biden
trashing him, and coming from dem's
it will take a toll.
and palin is a cultural icon,
thanks to the liberal left.
Thank You.
just to be compared to ronald reagan
and bill clinton puts her miles above
the freshman senator from Daly Town.

Posted by: USA3 | October 3, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

lala lala,
our biracial candidate is
going to win'
nana nana,
our old white guy likes big
words,
doda doda,
if we dont win you trailer
trash bigots rednecks will prove,
all of our talking and lying and spinning
couldnt make the middle of the country
move....
to LA or Manhattan....

Posted by: USA3 | October 3, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Wow, a +6, +7, +7 for Obama today. It's almost as if the country didn't realize how handily Palin won the debate.

Posted by: DDAWD | October 3, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

All the debate pundits last night were overwhelmingly sexist.

Had a man given that same performance, he would have been laughed off the stage. All that mugging and artificial folksiness. All the non-answers to questions.

No substance at all, for the most part.

Gwen Ifill was dreadful...no meaningful follow-up questions.

Is there anyone who thinks Palin is really capable of being president? I would be mortified.

As for her constant 'maverick' talking points.

A few weeks back, I posted a hilarious Maverick video, done to the theme of the old Maverick western TV show.

It is a must see. Very funny:
http://scootmandubious.blogspot.com/2008/09/maverick-mccain.html

Posted by: scootmandubious | October 3, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

GOTCHA: The vice-presidential-power follow-up was a lawyer’s “gotcha” question. Cheney’s lawyers have argued that his Article 1 Legislative role as President of the Senate adds to his Article 2 Executive powers as President-in-waiting. Non-lawyer Palin missed this thrust of the follow-up and gave the “stumbling, bumbling” “worst answer” you describe. Biden, a lawyer, strongly criticized the Cheney view but got some basic facts wrong: Article 2 is the Constitution’s Executive article, not Article 1, and the Vice President is always the presiding officer of the Senate, not only when there is a tie vote.

Posted by: Norm7007 | October 3, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

UNQUALIFIED.

Palin is good at "aw shucks" sportscasting.

Thats it.

She is not an expert on energy in any way.

She is totally unprepared for the vice presidency - let alone being a 72 yr old man's heartbeat from the Presidency of the United States.

"Aww Shucks" doesn't cut it. It never did. We had that from NEO-CON failure Bush already.

Palin is UN qualified.

Posted by: onestring | October 3, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Wow, armpeg! I am so interested to learn from your well-reasoned, balanced and altogether thoughtful post that it is only Democrats who engage in "hatefull [sic] name-calling, cheap shots, made-up lies, and ... typical gutter tactic politics that would make Hitler proud". But I'm sure any examples of that I might find in your post are just intended as an example of the kind of things Democrats say, right?

Posted by: truthtopower40 | October 3, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

In the coming months Palin is going to learn a hard lesson. She has no idea how treacherous the people she is surrounded by right now are. One of two things will happen. 1. If Mccain loses they will abandon her and she will be left up there in Alaska trying to put what is left of he life back together. No more legal protection, she will be on her own. No more ducking sepenias. She may even be saddled with legal bills. 2. Mccain wins they will stop protecting her and as things get worse they will force her to resigns and put in someone as VP who is qualified. They will have used her for what she was worth, a stooge, then dump her.

The best part is, either way is there is certainly a book in this. I have a feeling it will be a must read as she tells the inside story of what happened to her. I know I am looking forward to reading it. If Mccain loses I predict it's release will coincides with Obama's inauguration.


------------
Far too many republicans on this board today.And all their comments have been attacks on Obama. I can understand why this is so. When your candidate pulls out of a major state like Michigan and when republican newspapers like the ARIZONA REPUBLIC declare Biden the winner of the debate and concede that Palin could utter a straight sentence, there is little left but bile. Your republican stomachs must be full of it this morning. And now, more bad news. A judge in Alaska has ruled against Palin and she will have to face the music when she gets back to Alaska on November 5th.

Posted by: Opa2 | October 3, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: popasmoke | October 3, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Good points, LoneStarJR!

Palin's "exceptionalism" comment was one of the scariest parts of her entire performance last night. I'm not sure if she was just repeating something she had been given by one of her handlers or if these are her own views. (That is the problem with someone who is just regurgitating learned gobs of talking points. You have no way of knowing what the regurgitator really believes and what is campaign rhetoric...) Either way...

The whole notion of "exceptionalism" takes us down a road to fascism and is completely out of place in a world that has become increasingly flat and globalized. Sure ideals like freedom and democracy and human rights are noble and important but to suggest that they are the monopoly of the USA is just plain wrong. It is equally foolish to believe that the only "right" way to implement these ideals is the American way.

Not surprisingly other countries sometimes take offense at constantly being told that Americans are the only people who understand or enjoy freedom, democracy and human rights. Throughout much of our history as a nation — and particularly during the past seven years — American support for these ideals has been spotty and selective at best. Our open use of torture, our attempted suspension of habeas corpus, our indefinite internment in sub-human conditions of people we are unable to charge or even connect with any crime, all contribute to a lessening of our stature in the world. Even our continued reliance on the death penalty as a form of punishment is anathema to most of our friends.

We need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that the world has everything to learn from us and we have nothing to learn from the rest of the world. One stance is seen as patronizing and condescending by our friends and worse by our adversaries. The other deprives of us of benefiting from the ideas of others. We need more friends and fewer adversaries and triumphantly trumpeting American "exceptionalism" is NOT the way to create the climate in which we will achieve either goal.

Posted by: truthtopower40 | October 3, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Nothing proves Sarah Palin's competence and what a great choice McCain made for VP more than the left wing Democrat Socialist hatefull name-calling, cheap shots, made-up lies, and their typical gutter tactic politics that would make Hitler proud that is being displayed here on this and other blogs. Their hysterical outrage over Sarah Palin being able to not only hold her own against Obama's pet poodle Joe Biden in the VP debate, but expose Biden for the liar he is on at least 10 occassions is music to every McCain-Palin supporter. Like Fred Thompson pointed out in his interview last night right after the debate, Joe Biden lied to the American people at least 10 times that he counted (and there were at least 3 more that he could include because they were debateable). Thompson then went through this list and proved point by point, lie by lie, that Biden had lied. Too bad for the American people that the Democratic Party--controlled MSM--that is supposed to be the watchdog for the people but isn't-- is censoring Bidens lies by not reporting or even investigating them in order to protect Obama and Biden from all political fallout. The American people are the losers because of the MSM's selective news reporting.

Posted by: armpeg | October 3, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Gov. Palin demonstrated courage by getting up on stage and reciting answers she didn't fully understand. She demonstrated an affinity for the common American by winking at the camera, using "appealing" Midwestern jargon, and prouncing 'nuclear' "nook-yuh-ler." And, ya know, she is just SOOOO much cuter than the old guy, fershure.

Senator Biden, on the other hand, won the debate by exhibiting a complete command of relevant factual material.

I am sorry to say that I am not sure which approach will play better with the American electorate. OOOOOOH, I'm sorry... I meant 'with Main Street.'

Fershure.

Posted by: bokonon13 | October 3, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Two polls now show Obama with 10+ point lead in New Hampshire.

You betcha!

Posted by: wpost4112 | October 3, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Far too many republicans on this board today.And all their comments have been attacks on Obama. I can understand why this is so. When your candidate pulls out of a major state like Michigan and when republican newspapers like the ARIZONA REPUBLIC declare Biden the winner of the debate and concede that Palin could utter a straight sentence, there is little left but bile. Your republican stomachs must be full of it this morning. And now, more bad news. A judge in Alaska has ruled against Palin and she will have to face the music when she gets back to Alaska on November 5th.

Posted by: Opa2 | October 3, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Lets get one thing clear- Palin did not win the debate. The press, in its efforts not to appear sexist, have set a double standard for Palin because she is a woman- which is exactly the same thing as sexism. One NBC commentator even gave Palin good marks for avoiding questions she didn’t want to answer and having stock sound bytes to fall back on. In contrast most Americans were not impressed with her failure to answer half the questions asked. Even Geraldine Ferraro made a fool of herself bending over to support Palin because Palin was a women debating a man- where was Ferraro while Hillary kicked bu*t against a whole ticket of male opponents?
Biden scored big against Palin’s hokey “Main Street” ploy when he recalled his roots in poverty something a middle class Palin will never understand. He also scored against Palin’s hockey mom nonsense, when he struggled with tears talking about losing his wife and daughter and raising his sons as a single dad. Biden scored big policy points for Obama as well making it clear that McCain can’t just claim to be a Maverick without any record or policy to set a new course; making it clear that ‘drill baby drill” is not an energy policy; making it clear that he and Obama have a much clearer idea of foreign policy; making it clear that he at least knows what the Vice President does!!!
Just because Palin wasn’t as bad this time as she was the last time she spoke- doesn’t make her a winner.

Posted by: eagle2roost | October 3, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

I see that the list of Biden's lies is above 20 now. I know Liberals are too stupid to gather facts but is blatent lying now the manor or gaining office?

Never mind, I know the answer already.

Posted by: king_of_zouk | October 3, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

I will take you at your word. But if you want your candidate to win you don't go about it in the right way. In many ways you harm your candidate. If there is a Mccain Office in your town get down there and do something constructive. If there is not you can do what ever you can yourself. Get some forms and get out there and register voters. That is why I say I thought you really don't care because when you care you do something besides complain.


----------
Re:popasmoke

Oh, I care a great deal about politics of America and for her democratic heritage.
I would never exchange that heritage for a personality cult's regime.

Posted by: peterdaol | October 3, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: popasmoke | October 3, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Incredibly, no one is giving Sarah Palin credit for the most breathtaking campaign promise since the invention of politics: Not once but several times, she promised that she and John McCain would "end greed and corruption on Wall Street."

If someone could, somehow, end Greed on Wall Street, the next item on the National Agenda would be New York City's request for emergency assistance in coping with the outbreak of tumbleweed clogging the streets of lower Manhattan. Greed makes Wall Street necessary. Some of Greed's byproducts are good; some are not, including Corruption, which follows Greed everywhere.

No one can "end" Corruption, which most religionists acknowledge. One can reduce Corruption by creating deterrents to it--increasing the likelihood that those engaging in it will be caught (oversight) and enacting appropriately stiff penalties for those who are caught. A decent example is Senator John McCain, who became a less corrupt Senator after he got caught in the Keating Five Scandal. Although he escaped serious punishment because of the bipartisan composition of the Five, my guess is that he sensed he had used his one and only "Get Out of Jail Free" card.

The debate also surfaced a way to spot those rare occasions when Governor Palin departs from her script. When she is saying anything she has rehearsed less often than 94.6% of her statements, she forgets to drop her g's from pronunciation of words ending in "ing." Thirty-five years ago, I shamelessly tipped an eleven-year-old to watch for sweat on the Trickster's upper lip as a way of knowing when Nixon had veered from truth, then enjoyed a chuckle hearing him yell, "He's already lying! Look at that lip!" I am pleased to have discovered a similar clue to Governor Palin's preparation level and cheerfully pass it along for everyone's use during the remaining 31 days of her 15 minutes.

I switched my television off at the start of Pat Buchanan’s third or fourth echo of his stubborn assertion that Palin had won the debate, in the face of poll numbers to the contrary streaming in from everywhere. When I turned it on this morning, cable news’ first professional lunatic was still there, still insisting that Palin’s amateurish ploy of staring directly into the camera was some variety of communications breakthrough on her part and adding to his inventory of her make-believe strengths “her wonderful vocabulary.”

Yes, Pat, and good for you for spotting it! When I heard “you betcha” and “doggone it,” I, too, immediately thought, “What an awful pity that Bill Buckley isn’t here to enjoy this!”

Mr. Buckley would surely have reveled in Ms. Palin’s impressive command of clichés. When she trotted out “you’ve got to walk the walk, not just talk the talk,” I asked the person with whom I was pacing around our home, “Does she get to revise and extend her remarks, if she later discovers a cliché she’s left unturned?”
The political subject of the evening was utterly uncomplicated: Were those voters in doubt as to her capacity to be President, should the need eventuate, reassured in any large measure by her act? Remember, the question concerns only those who were undecided, not those who had already chosen to deem her qualified and not those whose response to her is, to opt for cliché, “You have GOT to be kidding me!” All the polls confirm the gut reaction—that it is the latter group whose numbers mushroomed last night.

Posted by: LonestarJR | October 3, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Tucker Carlson said something funny this morning. He said

" If the bar was any lower it would have defied the laws of physics".

I actually laughed out loud.


---------------
Hee Hee! Republicans were so worried Palin would not be able to make the low bar set by MSM that they started a campaign to disparage moderator Gwen Ifill to cover Palin's gaffs.

Now republicans have to find someone to blame for Palin avoiding answering question, changing the subject and repeating talking points over and over and over...

Posted by: knjincvc | October 3, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: popasmoke | October 3, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Re:popasmoke

Oh, I care a great deal about politics of America and for her democratic heritage.
I would never exchange that heritage for a personality cult's regime.

Posted by: peterdaol | October 3, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

as soon as the bailout bill is passed,
the media will switch back to empty
no experience obama and he will drop
in your precious polls.
all you need to do is give him a microphone
and a female reporter and he starts
to flirt and sweetie his way down
in the polls.

Posted by: USA3 | October 3, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Hee Hee! Republicans were so worried Palin would not be able to make the low bar set by MSM that they started a campaign to disparage moderator Gwen Ifill to cover Palin's gaffs.

Now republicans have to find someone to blame for Palin avoiding answering question, changing the subject and repeating talking points over and over and over...

Posted by: knjincvc | October 3, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

And this comment helps your candidate get elected how?
You are like a ball team who doesn't know where to put your outfield. Obama keeps dropping in singles. This is getting close to the end. Do you have anything beside insults? Because I can tell you they don't work. I don't think you really want to win or care the least about Mccain. When this is over you will be on to the next fad, you don't really care about politics.


--------------
BHO is ahead in the poll because someone wants a black president, period.

Black is a color not 'the content of his character'

Hussein is a character and an Arabic character, much like Saddam Hussein.

And BHO has all the biographical mark of very similar to the young Saddam.
Posted by: peterdaol | October 3, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: popasmoke | October 3, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

I heard the democratic VP nominee,
talking, about how well he thought
Sarah Palin did,
Joe Lieberman, has been talking for
McCain, where is Gore?
running his Giant Boiler in Tenn.
while preaching about global warming?
NOBAMA

Posted by: USA3 | October 3, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

obama an biden,
are simply liars,
there will be no national health care,
no middle class tax cuts,
how many times do you democrats
have to be lied too, before you
realize, once you vote, the rules
change, ask Billy Bob Clinton.
his middle class tax tax break,
saved me exactly 0.00 dollars!
thank god for monica,
at least it was entertaining!

Posted by: USA3 | October 3, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

BHO is ahead in the poll because someone wants a black president, period.

Black is a color not 'the content of his character'

Hussein is a character and an Arabic character, much like Saddam Hussein.

And BHO has all the biographical mark of very similar to the young Saddam.

Posted by: peterdaol | October 3, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

AsperGirl scribbled thusly: "Once again, in straining at gnats and swallowing camels to belittle Palin, the real story is being lost."

I have to agree. The real story is that McCain doomed his campaign by asking a totally unqualified person to be his running-mate. Its not clear that McCain could have won in any case given that his campaign has had zero strategic focus from day one, but thinking people will not put Palin one heartbeat away from the presidency. (It is possible that the only reason Bush was not impeached is because Cheney was sitting in his "undisclosed location" looking like some giant "WARNING: DO NOT ENTER! DANGER OF DEATH" sign. Was this McCain's thinking?) It matters little now in terms of this election since the McCain/Palin ship is on the rocks and breaking up.

Posted by: truthtopower40 | October 3, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

You lobotomized American dairy cows love Sarah Palin's folksiness because your your waist size is now higher than your 75 IQ, ha ha.
Time for your milking you cows, moo, moo. You chose folksy shallow guy for President last time, and now you sit there with retarded expression on your bloated face and say "I wonder why we are in such trouble." Gee, I wonder why. You Americans are such incompetent clowns, we laugh our heads off at you fat losers in Europe.

Posted by: euroguy | October 3, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

is there some liberal stupidity clause
in the democratic party that we can
not elect people who have worked real
jobs, and had real life experience?
jo biden and osama wouldnt know how
to use a shovel.
NOBAMA!

Posted by: USA3 | October 3, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

We should not be fooled by Palin's Acting/ sparring abilities (although she had her Notes with her) to sucessfully weave and bob and her canny ability not to answer questions she does not like in contradiction to her being able to answer intelligently complex questions on the spot! It seems as if she feels the American people have no need to be given intelligent, thoughtful answers to the pressing questions of today, and that we would rather be winked at and called hockey moms and Joe Sixpacks while our economy is in ruins! We need our candidates to present truth, not lies and talking points of lies which have nothing to do with reality. We have been lied too enough in this country. We need leaders who are of high moral character and who think their word is thier bond.

Starting to question McCain's mental fitness

McCain's interviews have become increasingly angry, hostile and unhinged. He seems to be on the verge of some kind of mental collapse. A big part of McCain's erratic behavior is due to Obama having gotten deep, deep, deep inside his head. If McCain's brain was x-rayed, it would reveal Obama sitting comfortably upon McCain's cerebral peduncles. But, it is more than that. I believe McCain's increasing instability is being caused by the stress of the campaign and his 72 year old body not being able to get the rest that it requires to function properly. That isn't ageism—that is a simple fact of life. I wondered how McCain, being in advanced years, would respond under the grueling pace of a general election. I think we are all beginning to find out and it really isn't a pretty site. He is on the verge of some kind of mental collapse.

http://www.progressivedailybeacon.com/?p=1986

Posted by: dsoulplane | October 3, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse


Normally I ignore posts like this because they have no content but I am going to reply to this one. It is because of people like you Mccain will most likely lose. There are some real realities that have to be faced. Obama is higher in the polls then he has been since his campaign began. Mccain has pretty much flat-lined. He is even closing campaign offices. Instead of living in a land of delusion and spouting things that are not true you should be making some kind of coherent comments that may actually help your candidate.

Get out there and make phone calls or knock on doors. My wife was waring her Obama shirt and registered three new voters in a supermarket yesterday who approached her. They are first time voters who actually didn't know how to go about it. She even made arrangements to take them to early voting at the library. This is how you win elections, not by calling the other guy names but by going out and getting votes. And you certainly don't win if you spend your days deluding your self.

Obama has told us over and over to have no delusions, this is not over till it is over. We work day and night and then some. I was at a debate party last night and some were actually getting sick they are working so hard. "THIS" is how you win. I am going to give a little bit away about myself, my father was a governor, I have been around political campaigns for almost 60 years. I can tell you the Obama campaign has rewritten the book on how to run a political campaign.

Obama has run the most organized campaign in the history of politics. This campaign will be studied when this is over and become the text book. John Mccain had far more going for him then Obama in the beginning but they just got out played. I know I seem to be getting ahead of myself with the past tense of "played" but I think this is pretty much over. I have never been this confident in a campaign. But, I and my wife and everyone we know will still work harder then ever. I think we will get the results we want.

-------------
The loser by a mile:BHO. He would even measure up to Joe Biden let alone Gov. Palin.
BHO appeal is waning fast.
What we will see from him now are just the empty hand gestures and the soundbites his condescending speech.
The viewing public are sick of both.

Posted by: peterdaol | October 3, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: popasmoke | October 3, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

"Palin reaffirmed her folkyness and I think the line "we need to stop Wall Street corruption and bring a little Wasilla mainstreet to Washington DC" was a great line".

Posted by: reason5 | October 3, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

i wonder if the wasilla ice rink is on mainstreet?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122065537792905483.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 3, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Would you prefer President Biden met Chavez today and he weeps?

Posted by: peterdaol | October 3, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

So many people tuned in expecting to see a train wreck, but I was not surprised to see that both candidates did quite well. Still, I admit I was nervous throughout, because gaffes usually appear without warning.

A lot of analysts are saying that Sarah Palin "held her own," and I agree. But today I realized that I want my Vice President (future President?) to do better than that. I don't want to one day hear on the news: "President Palin met with Vladimir Putin, today, and she held her own."

Posted by: dognabbit | October 3, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Joe Biden just doesnt get it'
he voted against the 91' iraq
war, he is a do nothing chamberlain'esque
appeaser....
NOBAMA

Posted by: USA3 | October 3, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Joe's the bigger story than Palin's self-redemption. His performance struck the perfect chord, in content and in tone.

He put Palin on the defensive early with his "ultimate bridge to nowhere" aside. That rejoinder may have dissuaded Palin from bomb-throwing (a reference to Neil Kinnock would have had the press regurgitating that negative narrative, so Biden was wise to strike first with a jab).

Biden's forceful put-down of Palin's Cheney-esque talk of expanded vice presidential powers -- he called it "bizarre" -- may have been the debate's only smackdown moment.

Biden confirmed Obama's judgment in choosing him; Palin out-performed expectations, but failed to convince skeptics that she's qualified for executive office. When she blurted out "I've only been here for, what, five weeks," she offered personal disqualifying testimony

In sum: This debate was most notable for establishing Biden as a plausible president. Palin salvaged her candidacy but did little to earn new support from a public that's dubious as to her bona fides.

BUT WILL THE ELECTION EVEN MATTER? NOT WHEN "EXTRA-JUDICIAL TARGETING" OF AMERICAN CITIZENS MAKES A MOCKERY OF THE LAW: http://members.nowpublic.com/scrivener

Posted by: scrivener50 | October 3, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Re:Obama graduated Harvard magnum cum laude.
Like Hillary, he is an extremely intelligent, well educated individual.
It is very unfortunate that these worthy candidates were pitted against each other in such a mutually destructive manner.
John McCain and particularly Sarah Palin can never equal either one of them in depth of knowledge or intelligence.

Posted by: seemstome | October 3, 2008 11:21 AM

Democracy: the government of the people, by the people and for the people.
Have you democrats forgotten what democracy meant anymore?

Obama was lecturing political science at U of Chicago.
Biden is a part-time professor also in political science.

What is wrong you Democrats?
Are you dying?
Or have you gone demented?

Posted by: peterdaol | October 3, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

why isnt anyone in an uproar over Palin's obvious lack of knowledge about what branch of government the VP spot is located under as stated in our Constitution? And the fact that she wants MORE power? Didn't we just have someone who decided Article I didn't mean anything and there was a de facto Article Ib? This woman is power mad. She's not just looking to be VP, she will knock Mr. Grumpy off the first chance she gets, have you seen the henpecked hubby? Is he a mute or what? If McCain thinks he's got some mildly decent looking moron to shore up the Christer vote and can set her in the closet to never be heard from again, he's dead wrong...emphaisis on the dead. She's definitely one of those women you see on "Snapped" except her husband is so inept that knocking him off wouldn't do any good, so now she has a mark that will give her real benefits. Mr. Grumpy will kick the bucket any day anyhow, I bet she feels like she hit the meth-capital-of-Alaska lottery jackpot.

Posted by: dfasano1 | October 3, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

It cracks me up to see the post that from popasmoke "BTW, I wonder if she played stupid on Ms. Couric interview so she can fool the Democrats into believing she was stupid."

What the, huh?? How could anybody believe that if you saw the interview? She wasn't faking anything.. she doesn't read the paper, she doesn't know anything about the Supreme Court.. she's obviously not interested not curious enough.
I'm just constantly amazed that any working class citizen is a republican and that you believe a word they say.. like i said What the, huh??

Posted by: marionsgotmail | October 3, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

The loser by a mile:BHO. He would even measure up to Joe Biden let alone Gov. Palin.
BHO appeal is waning fast.
What we will see from him now are just the empty hand gestures and the soundbites his condescending speech.
The viewing public are sick of both.

Posted by: peterdaol | October 3, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Democrats for John McCain and Sarah Palin 2008

Posted by: hclark1 | October 3, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Obama graduated Harvard magnum cum laude.
Like Hillary, he is an extremely intelligent, well educated individual.
It is very unfortunate that these worthy candidates were pitted against each other in such a mutually destructive manner.
John McCain and particularly Sarah Palin can never equal either one of them in depth of knowledge or intelligence.

Posted by: seemstome | October 3, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Aldinsgirl1 gushed:

Palin was brilliant!

---------------------

The sky is green!

Horses fly!

Gas is cheap!

Ice Cream has no calories!

Elvis is alive!

Posted by: wpost4112 | October 3, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

I was stunned when after the debate, the commentators said Governor Palin did well. Because of my son's soccer practice, I had to listen on the radio and cringed when she continually refused to answer the question asked. If someone watched the tape, I'll be she changed the question approximately half of the time.

For example, Ms. Ifill asked Governor Palin whether the McCain health plan would result in over 5 million Americans losing their healthcare. I still don't know her answer. Do they disagree with that statement or are those people collateral damage to a greater good? I have no idea.

How could she do better in a debate than with Katie Couric? In a debate, you can answer whatever you want and people don't hold you accountable. In an interview, there are follow-up questions.

Last but not least, Senator Biden showed tremendous knowledge of the issues and didn't duck any question. You may not like his policy positions, but you know where he stands.

Posted by: amaikovich | October 3, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

That is exactly why she needs to do press conferences. She has to step up and prove them wrong and that she has the stuff for the job. She either does or she doesn't. If they put her back into the cone of silence in a short time it will be even worse then before. Perception becomes reality unless pushed back. The problem here is the perception may be the reality and press conferences will just confirm it. I think Biden should have done a press conference right after the debate. They have had had a media room set up with reporters microphones like at an awards show. Palins absence and silence would have been deafening. It would have stuck one more knife in Palin for the night as well as show the contrast in the two candidates one more time as she runs away form any questions one more time.


---------------
"How is it that McCain, Obama, and Biden can do press conferences and not Palin?
Is it that because she's a woman? "

I think the current right wing logic is its not because she's a woman, but because she's a CONSERVATIVE woman. That's why communists like Katie Couric dare to ask Palin such gotcha questions such as what newspapers she reads. They can't stand it when conservative women become so successful.

Posted by: DDAWD | October 3, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: popasmoke | October 3, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

"A decision was clearly made by the top strategists in the campaign of John McCain to embrace rather than run from Palin's tendency toward folksiness. Right from the start of the debate -- 'Can I call you Joe,' she asked Biden -- her appeal to the 'average Joe' was on full display...One of the reasons the debate produced no "You're no Jack Kennedy" sort of lines is because both candidates stuck to their talking points to a fault."
--

"Can I call you Joe" was nothing more than a setup for a line to be delivered later: "Say it ain't so, Joe." This line was to be Palin's "You're no Jack Kennedy."

It didn't work.

Posted by: CuckooRaja | October 3, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I love my country and except the wonderful diversity that it represents. There is no better place to live and all Americans should be proud to be a citizen. But I shudder when I hear someone would be vice-president (or even president) make the following assertion:
“But even more important is that world view that I share with John McCain. That world view that says that America is a nation of exceptionalism. And we are to be that shining city on a hill, as President Reagan so beautifully said, that we are a beacon of hope and that we are unapologetic here. We are not perfect as a nation. But together, we represent a perfect ideal. And that is democracy and tolerance and freedom and equal rights. Those things that we stand for that can be put to good use as a force for good in this world.”
Suggesting that Barack Obama’s position on world affairs and diplomacy is naïve and dangerous is breathtakingly ignorant and arrogant on the part of a so-called qualified candidate who can blithely make such an assertion. Clearly she understands history as well she understands current world affairs.
History is replete with examples of the disastrous consequences of one nation/peoples fervent belief that they are exceptional, represent a perfect ideal and should put those qualities “to good use as a force for good in this world”.
One only has to recall the 1920s, 30s, and 40s when the twin evils of Nazi fascism and Japanese imperialism were unleashed on the world. The Nazis were the super race – super in purity, super in strength, super in culture. The Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, etc. were untermenschen, subhuman, to be subjugated, enslaved and murdered, all in the name of spreading the Aryan ideal.
The Japanese also saw themselves as superior to all others – the Chinese who were to be subjugated and forced to work for the good of the Empire and the barbarian races of the West who were to be defeated in all out war.
Hopefully one does not have to remind Sarah and John of the disastrous consequences of their outspoken right to expand and recreate large parts of the world in their own image.
The consequences of such hubris have been with us since ancient times. Witness the Mongols, the Tatars, etc. who sacked and razed numerous centers of civilization and slaughtered countless thousands simply because they abhorred the others’ ways of life.
Lest you miss the parallels with today, consider this: absent any real issues of imminent danger (and we know that the Bush administration knowingly lied and misrepresented the facts thereon) what is different about the Bush policy of forcing democracy on sovereign nations without a single concern for the wishes of the people or the government involved (i.e., Iraq)?
One last comment; lest Sarah and John not understand the disastrous nature of their stated position. While I have particular disdain for the policies and actions of the Bush administration, we cannot forget the other recent examples of American hubris that stems from variations of the McCain/Palin “doctrine”: Teddy Roosevelt re: Puerto Rico; missionaries in China, American paternalism in the Philippines; Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs; installing the Shah in Iran; you could go on and on. Ironically enough, most of these misadventures resulted ultimately in long term problems, often of a grave nature. How about the theocracy that really runs Iran?
I repeat. I love my country. Can we really afford 4 or 8 more years of ignorant, arrogant, chauvinistic, paternalistic governance as the McCain/Palin ticket promises?

Posted by: hooksee | October 3, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

"with a running mate who is clueless"

You said it! Biden doesn't even know his campaign theme "Change"

Sen Biden, I quote- I will not change.

Say it aint so Joe!

Posted by: blevins20061 | October 3, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

You are exactly right, when this is over they will have to coin a new phraise. "The Mccain effect" to replace the "The Bradely effect". Many people will step in the booth in November and not be able to pull the trigger on a 72 year old cancer survivor with a running mate who is clueless. I don't think Obama has anything to worry about, last night closed the deal. This woman does not belong in Washington and it was apparent to everyone. She needed to show she does have command of issues and is not what she has been depicted as, like on SNL recently. But instead she confirmed it, she is in fact clueless. She answered any questions people who were looking to make up their minds how to vote wanted answered. I would say she got a few votes for Barr or Nader if nothing else.


------------
How is it that McCain, Obama, and Biden can do press conferences and not Palin?
Is it that because she's a woman?
Hillary never had any problems. Can you picture her responding the way Palin did with Gibson and Couric?
Unlike Biden, Hillary would have had license to utterly destroy her in this debate.
Like Bush, Palin is almost proud of her ignorance of facts and figures. She relies on folksy charm and generalities to the extent you feel you are watching a beauty contest.
Because of her staggering ignorance of foreign policy, constitutional law, supreme court rullings and the economy, Palin will never pass the presidential sniff test, unless you want George Bush with lipstick.

Posted by: seemstome | October 3, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: popasmoke | October 3, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

"How is it that McCain, Obama, and Biden can do press conferences and not Palin?
Is it that because she's a woman? "

I think the current right wing logic is its not because she's a woman, but because she's a CONSERVATIVE woman. That's why communists like Katie Couric dare to ask Palin such gotcha questions such as what newspapers she reads. They can't stand it when conservative women become so successful.

Posted by: DDAWD | October 3, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

I am not from US but the comments are so funny here. A couple of months back Mrs Clinton was talking about substance, experience, specific issues but every one used to love Mr Obama because he was fresh and talked not of issues but the process change. Now the criterion is reversed and Mr. Biden is substance while Ms Palin is only talking point. If this criterion was applied Mr Obama could not have been nominated. Is not Governor higher in Government ladder than a Senator and just one ladder below VP? It will be interesting to know if any first term Senator has been elected President. It seems the President need not have experience but the VP must have thirty years of experience.
When Mr Obama discusses with his advisors on camera, stands with them on stage to talk about economy he is Presidential but Ms Palin is just reciting. The constitution should be amended so that only Senators on Foreign relations committee with law degree can contest for the President. How illogical?

Posted by: akkashyap | October 3, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

"Classy Aspergirl. Why the choice of words- "Ghetto trash???""

Oh, wow, asper is a racist? No way! really???

Posted by: DDAWD | October 3, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

How is it that McCain, Obama, and Biden can do press conferences and not Palin?
Is it that because she's a woman?
Hillary never had any problems. Can you picture her responding the way Palin did with Gibson and Couric?
Unlike Biden, Hillary would have had license to utterly destroy her in this debate.
Like Bush, Palin is almost proud of her ignorance of facts and figures. She relies on folksy charm and generalities to the extent you feel you are watching a beauty contest.
Because of her staggering ignorance of foreign policy, constitutional law, supreme court rullings and the economy, Palin will never pass the presidential sniff test, unless you want George Bush with lipstick.

Posted by: seemstome | October 3, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

When asked about her "Achilles’ Heal" Palin went off on a list of her strengths. Could it be she didn't know what it meant?

Posted by: rblack2 | October 3, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Dear euroguy,
Your addiction to "$5 Hollywood hookers" helps our economy, so thanks for that. Meanwhile -- you think WE are fat? Have you been to Germany lately? Or Yorkshire, England?

In response to this post by: euroguy | October 3, 2008 10:19 AM
Sarah Palin winks and crinkles nose like $5 Hollywood hooker.
She should drop all pretenses and campaign topless. That way, no one will care that she is an idiot. You American clowns would vote her in, because you are such fat losers who don't know what the hell you are doing. We laugh our heads off at you in Europe.

Posted by: sergiogreco | October 3, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

particulary appreciated Joe B's comment, "I will not change."

I guess he didn't get Barack's memo about change...
___________________________________
___


What an idiot. Obama was probably a two pack smoker last night after that one.

Posted by: blevins20061 | October 3, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Palin came off like GWB in his debates (affable), but a little more snarky. I think she played the right strategy -- she's such a maverick she told them she wasn't going to answer the questions, right up front.

Biden came off great.

Posted by: MShake | October 3, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

It was so phony do you really think small town people buy that? Actually most small town people don't like their local politicians. Small town politics is some of the most corrupt you will ever find. Just think "Boss Hogg" in "Dukes of Hazzard".


---------
"Palin reaffirmed her folkyness and I think the line "we need to stop Wall Street corruption and bring a little Wasilla mainstreet to Washington DC" was a great line".

Posted by: reason5 | October 3, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: popasmoke | October 3, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

The moderator asked Biden and Palin about their Achilles heel, Biden answered the question and Palin only talked about her strengths. Reminds me of Dubya who says he has no weakness. Shows you nothing will change with McCain Palin............

Posted by: rharring | October 3, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

The winner by a mile: Biden. Experienced, knowledgeable, sympathetic and ready to assume the presidency if need be.

Palin had a credible performance only in light of the low bar set. She dodged questions, repeatedly retreated to catch phrases, and was weak on detail. Her debate performance confirms my opinion that she she's photogenic, is engaging when she stays on script, and is about an inch deep on substance.

God help us if McCain-Palin is elected and, through some tragedy, Palin ascends to the presidency. What was John McCain thinking?

Posted by: ANetliner | October 3, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

You have nothing to worry about, none of what you said is lost on the American people. That phony act we saw last night falls flat. Only her hardcore supporters will think she did well, unless they are honest.


------------
What is WRONG with you people, commentators???? I'm jsut an ordinary person, but time after time I find myself asking questions and having observations that are so obvious, but you folks who get paid to consider this stuff don't even NOTICE???

My gosh, why isn't it obvious that it IS NOT OVER with Palin? I've read story after story about the debate and not one of you have even touched up WHAT DOES SHE DO NEXT? If she wants to skip the mainstream media, fine, but is she going to interact with NO MEDIA AT ALL? Not even in a press conference?

And why don't you folks make the simple observation that because she didn't answer many of the questions she was asked, doing so allowed her to--yet again--FOLLOW A SCRIPT? Why don't you even consider how that means we still haven't seen this woman actually think ON HER FEET, except in those one-on-one interviews she has failed in so miserably?

I can understand the low-information voter failing to realize that what they hear in a speech or in scripted notes could be--and in Palin's case, almost certainly ARE--developed and written by someone else's brains? Is that what American's are willing to vote into office: someone whose original views they've never actually heard or have only heard in the most inarticulate ways?

It's your job to be smart, media representative. So BE SMART and BE THOROUGH. Make the connections and observations--you can do so in objective ways. You don't need to be biased. Just point out reality--because a lot of people in this country don't have the ability to really understand reality.

Posted by: pasc1 | October 3, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: popasmoke | October 3, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

I think both Biden & Palin did well last night. I think both pretty well accomplished their mission. Biden showed his knowledge of issues and personal side without making any real and substantive gaffes. Palin reaffirmed her folkyness and I think the line "we need to stop Wall Street corruption and bring a little Wasilla mainstreet to Washington DC" was a great line. Small town folks all over America had to have loved that line. It surely beats the heck in a commercial out of "small town people turn to guns and religion out of bitterness." That comparison on a commercial could be a great distinction between the McCain vs. Obama attitude. However, Palin's biggest gap was her explanation of the role of Vice-President. She does not want to be connected with Dick Cheney, and she opened herself up to being connected with Cheney.

Biden's best performance was definately on the issues, as he sometimes went overboard with people not understanding what he was saying. His best shot was the personal side when he spoke on his family & his roots. It showed he understands what ordinary & financially hurting families face. Biden also said the US needs to follow international guidelines before defending America. This is something the McCain campaign should pounce upon.

2 mistakes: Palin couldn't define the role of the vice-presidency & Biden thinks we should ask the world before defending America.

Posted by: reason5 | October 3, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin winks and crinkles nose like $5 Hollywood hooker.
She should drop all pretenses and campaign topless. That way, no one will care that she is an idiot. You American clowns would vote her in, because you are such fat losers who don't know what the hell you are doing. We laugh our heads off at you in Europe.

Posted by: euroguy | October 3, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Palin was brilliant!

She does much better when half of what she says does not end on the cutting floor as it did in the Gibson and Couric interviews.

The big losers following this debate were Couric and Gibson. Boy, are they exposed.

I hope she and McCain win... If not, maybe CBS would like to have a 'real star' sitting in the evening news chair! :)

Posted by: Aldinsgirl1 | October 3, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

It's significant that Palin's opinion polls among men went up significantly higher than for women.
Watching the debate I could almost feel it. However, after taking the cold shower of unemployment figures this morning the effect quickly faded.
If the stock market keeps dropping, and it will, no amount of lipstick is going to reverse Obama's lead. In fact, McCain's popularity is tied more securely to the Dow than it is to Bush, and those guys like to hug alot.

Posted by: seemstome | October 3, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

What is WRONG with you people, commentators???? I'm jsut an ordinary person, but time after time I find myself asking questions and having observations that are so obvious, but you folks who get paid to consider this stuff don't even NOTICE???

My gosh, why isn't it obvious that it IS NOT OVER with Palin? I've read story after story about the debate and not one of you have even touched up WHAT DOES SHE DO NEXT? If she wants to skip the mainstream media, fine, but is she going to interact with NO MEDIA AT ALL? Not even in a press conference?

And why don't you folks make the simple observation that because she didn't answer many of the questions she was asked, doing so allowed her to--yet again--FOLLOW A SCRIPT? Why don't you even consider how that means we still haven't seen this woman actually think ON HER FEET, except in those one-on-one interviews she has failed in so miserably?

I can understand the low-information voter failing to realize that what they hear in a speech or in scripted notes could be--and in Palin's case, almost certainly ARE--developed and written by someone else's brains? Is that what American's are willing to vote into office: someone whose original views they've never actually heard or have only heard in the most inarticulate ways?

It's your job to be smart, media representative. So BE SMART and BE THOROUGH. Make the connections and observations--you can do so in objective ways. You don't need to be biased. Just point out reality--because a lot of people in this country don't have the ability to really understand reality.

Posted by: pasc1 | October 3, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

When you just listen, Palin's answers seem to sort of make some kind of sense. But if you break down what she's actually saying, she has a terrible grasp of sentence structure and basic grammar. She never completes a thought; she just merges into the next talking point. It makes her incredibly difficult to listen to, but no one else seems to feel that way. Must be the elitist in me.

Posted by: ManUnitdFan | October 3, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Debate? Yawn.

Rasmussen reports that Obama is ahead by TEN POINTS in New Hampshire.

TEN POINTS.

New Hampshire.

Posted by: wpost4112 | October 3, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Well, heck, doggonit
we're mavericks,
a nucular G-spot,
yabetcha,
a g-rated Chaney.

EEEK!

Posted by: cenicero | October 3, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

To Kendrick
You should read the Constitution yourself rather than making stuff up.

Article 1 IS about the legislative branch as you point out, but as Biden was saying, this is where the legislative role of the VP is set out. To wit:
"The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.
The Senate shall chuse their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the Absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of President of the United States."

So The President pro-tem is not something they just decided to start using after WWII - it is in Article I, Section 3 directly after defining the VP's only role - a vote in case of a tie.


Posted by: schlicht | October 3, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse


I have watcher her tapes of the alaska debates and many others of her speaking and at no time did she ever speak the way she did last night. She speaks like a business woman in norman life and very articulate. I have no idea what that was up there last night on the stage. She was playing some kind of character they have created for her. This phony "Will Rogers" sort of persona. She was again a fraud just trying a new trick that polls are already showing the American people are not dumb enough to buy. They have now created some kind of a backwoods like buffoon out of her.


----------------
THAT'S RIGHT, GIVE EM HUMBLE-PIE SARA!!!

* Not only did she saved her butt, but she saved Sen. McCain butt and kicked the opponents' butt at the same time. SHE WAS OUTSTANDING.

BTW, I wonder if she played stupid on Ms. Couric interview so she can fool the Democrats into believing she was stupid.

Posted by: lazerboy | October 3, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: popasmoke | October 3, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Oops! Forgot to mention the worst of the Rwonks who would sell us all down the river - Cheney!

Posted by: wwwqueen | October 3, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

WCWINC and SAGEDUTCH

You are the ones who don't get it. Most of the American people are proud of their country and ashamed of what has recently happened to it. We are also afraid that Rwonks like Bush, McCain and Palin will sooner rather than later turn us into a third world military dictatorship.

We want as, Arlo Guthrie once sang, to "...try to rekindle the Patriot's dream" that's what Obama and Biden are about as well.

Give it UP!!!!! We are ALL Americans.

Posted by: wwwqueen | October 3, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Aspergirl, you promised not to post anymore. Now that you have reneged, please don't whine and cry when the adults point out how very, very, very wrong you are.

How about those polls, btw? Is the over under in Wing Nut World for Obama EC votes 400, like it is on planet Earth, or are you still expecting a McCain landslide?

Posted by: bondjedi | October 3, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Assuming that voters are idiots and treating them as such has long been a successful strategy in US politics. But never has a party aimed quite so low as with Sarah Palin.

She sets a new standard in the politics of the lowest common denominator. Her phoniness is so obvious, it's no wonder that the only people who can't see through it are the same ones who never saw through Dubya.

Palin support is like a reverse IQ test: The more you like her, the dumber you are.

Posted by: Bud0 | October 3, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

By the way, did anybody notice how one of the cameras was always on Palin's legs, giving us a rear-side view reminiscent of Betty Grable pin-up photos?

What was with that?

How much negotiation do you figure went into getting that camera placement? What did the McCain people have to give up in order to get those legs flashed at the audience so often?

I sure don't recall that camera angle from the Obama-McCain debate.

Posted by: kjohnson3 | October 3, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

What Biden did last night that was most effective was remind voters, and speak to them, that what McCain/Palin have to offer is the same as what we've had over the past 8 years. Palin never separated the campaign from Bush nor gave specifics as to how the WOULD do things different. It was a big loss for her in that respect. She had her talking points down well, but her lack of substance did not do the campaign any favors of changing the dynamics of this race.

I also felt that Palin used her folksiness way too much. People are looking for leaders not winkers.

Posted by: BigB1 | October 3, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Dear RD,

If you'll be so kind as to look at the facts www.rightchange.com is stating documentd facts... key word being documented... straight from the people's mouths or documented votinig records... they are stating facts not opinions.

I understand that the left would prefer not to use those pesky facts but alot of America would actually like to see and hear unbaised facts.

ANd when you look at the facts and listen to the actual words coming from Senator Obama's own mouth (plenty of stuff on youtube) you will quickly see the most radical liberal ever offered up by the left.

Obama is a freakin liberal's liberal. He wants to go full on socialst with his agenda and destroy America's military power.

He is the one who states he wants to stop all funding for future weapons platforms... he is the one who voted against funding for materials to keep our tropps safe... he is the one who accuses our troops of bombing villages... he is the one who has declared he would detroy America's nuke capabilities.

Why do you think that every country or radical Amercian hating group who has endorsed a candidtae has endorsed Obama... Obama is the terrorist's best friend.

Obama's tax and spend plan will put America into a depression.

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 3, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

I have low expectations for politicians in a debate. I only expect some small attempt to answer a question. Palin repeatedly completely ignored the question and went straight to a talking point she apparently ordered to give. Missed opportunity for Biden: several times Palin ended an answer expounding on "getting the government out of our lives." Biden should have hammered her immediately on how deregulation contributed to the current financial mess, negating her talking point, but he didn't.

Posted by: mischanova | October 3, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

The clearest indication that a McCain-Palin administration would be a replica of the Bush-Cheney administration is the fact that Palin mispronounces the word "nuclear" precisely the way Bush does -- nu-cu-ler.

What more proof do you need?

Posted by: kjohnson3 | October 3, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

THAT'S RIGHT, GIVE EM HUMBLE-PIE SARA!!!

* Not only did she saved her butt, but she saved Sen. McCain butt and kicked the opponents' butt at the same time. SHE WAS OUTSTANDING.

BTW, I wonder if she played stupid on Ms. Couric interview so she can fool the Democrats into believing she was stupid.

Posted by: lazerboy | October 3, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Joe Biden tries looming over Palin, getting too close to her and talking down to her, but his body language shows him subconsciousy trying to reach out and hold her hands. Palin doesn't back away or shrink, but stays planted in her face.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/10/03/us/03cnd_debate.2.html

Posted by: AsperGirl | October 3, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Palin likeable?

Only in the smarmy, used car salesman way.

For all those that think she was likeable I've got a lot full of classic Ford Pintos to sell you...but only to you cause you're so special!!

Posted by: shaggy999 | October 3, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

With expectations THAT low, Palin would have had to have a seizure during the opening handshake in order to fail to achieve her goals for the debate. As it was, she remained standing, breathed regularly and appeared to be awake and alert. Mission accomplished. But would somebody, please teach her how to say nuclear! Also, Gen. McClellan commanded the Union Army in the Civil War. Gen. McKiernan commands our troops in Afghanistan.

Biden was substantive, personable and presidential. When asked questions, he answered them, and without all of Palin's misleading smoke and mirrors. Despite nearly $1 trillion extra in next year's deficit, McCain won't need to forego any campaign promises? Really? I guess it will be four more years of borrow and spend economics, just like the eight we’ve had under Bush. Maybe McCain has already negotiated a multi-trillion dollar home equity line of credit on the White House with the National Bank of China.

I loved when Palin excused herself from any possible reneging on campaign promises because she's only "been at this for about five weeks." So, she agrees that she's unqualified? And then she listed her executive experience among her Achillies heels. Um governor, that means weakness. Oh, or perhaps she agrees that being mayor of a po-dunk town of less than 7,000 and governor of a state with just 100,000 more residents than the District of Columbia, aren't valid qualifications to be vice president. I spent a number of years on my Home Owners Association Board, that was an elected position with executive experience, I suppose I’m ready be vice president too.

But my favorite part was all of the winking and the blowing kisses. It made her look like she was riding a float.

Posted by: tkoho | October 3, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

This race is not about Palin or Biden.. it is about Obama and McCain.

Obama stands for Change which is ambiguous by it's very nature... you can be driving down the road and change direction and drive yourself right off a cliff.

McCain stands for change defined by reform... reform means something... that stands for fixing a problem.

Obama's change = higher taxes, a robin hood take from the rich to give to the poor mentallity (last time I checked... if you take something from someone else you're simply a theif)... social engineering whic Jimmy Carter tried (remember the Carter years?)... he has yet to articulate an energy plan... and he has voted against funding our troops for materials to keep them alive... and has promised to stop all funding for future weapons platforms and wants to take away America's nuke capabilities... impressive.... that would equate to driving off a cliff.

McCain wants to reform how Washington does business... lower taxes and create a situation where businesses could flourish... have an everything American energy plan - Oil, Natural gass, coal, nuke, wind, solar, new tech; and like him or not.... McCain understands how to keep AMerica safe far better than Obama with his 300 advisors. If you'll remember when the Russia/Georgia thing happened McCain had it right from day one... it took Obama and his 300 clonies 4 days and 5 different responses until they finally adopted Mccain's position. McCain equals reform and that's what we need. His plan will creat jobs which will stregthen our econnomy.

If our economy is a almost fatal wound... Obama offers us to clean it up and use a bandage.... McCain offers us an operation to actually heal the wound.

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 3, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

The McCain strategy all along has been to take their message directly to the American people(voters ?).

The stated purpose being to avoid the media "filter", with generous dollops of media bashing thrown in for effect.

Palin said as much last night stating her intention to take it directly to the American people. Setting aside the fact that it was supposed to be a debate and not a speech, the strategy doesn't seem to be working.

While Palin didn't implode, she didn't do anything to change the outcome of this election.

And why McCain announced he's surrendering in Michigan on the afternoon of the debate is as mystifying as some of his other recent actions.

Whatever McCain-Palin are selling(and that's debatable) the electorate, if the polling means anything, ain't buying.

Posted by: mathas | October 3, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

A correction is needed...Kdog1 said to visit www.rightchange.com for unbiased info. No spin.

LIAR! LIAR! PANTS ON FIRE!
ITs the new financial "Swift Boat Veterans" PAC. I thought we wanted special interest out of our politics this year?

Posted by: RDJacobs1 | October 3, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Palin exceeded media expectations. She was the perfect McCain running mate - someone he can program and control. That is his style. ...................
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/10/01/mccains-world-view-power-and-control/

Posted by: glclark4750 | October 3, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

I don't mean to be a reverse snob though I've always been a sucker for the underdog. But I am (still, I think) an undecided voter who happened to watch the debate on a big screen at a standing room only forum at the Institute of Politics at the Harvard Kennedy School in Cambridge (having rushed there after seeing the marvelous Sicilian singer Carmen Consoli perform next door). And I have never seen an audience that should be so embarrassed. The contemptuous ridicule and scorn for every word and gesture by Sarah Palin was unbelievable. I could only think: God help us ... and that I'd love to see the SNL parody of that.

Posted by: bumchicken | October 3, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Ya gotta admit, Sarah got game. Ya know whut ah mean? Like moose and stuff.

Posted by: citizenw | October 3, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

I see Aspergril has people riled up! Forget her, a permanent fixture PAID BY ROVE!
Palin didn't say anything. EXCEPT IT'S NOT IMPLICIT THAT THE VP'S OFFICE AHS EXTENDED POWERS!
CHENEY = LIPSTICK!

Posted by: Cookie100 | October 3, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

I am offended by these lies about Obama's tax plans.... so here are the real facts about Obama's tax plan via rightchange.com and these are all documented - no spin!

Under that plan:
1. Small main street businesses would be forced to pay tax rates as high as 62.3% under Senator Obama’s tax proposals.
2. Senator Obama’s tax plan would tax small businesses at a higher rate than large corporations!
3. Taxes on retirement income and savings could increase by at least 33%, hitting millions of seniors when they need these resources the most.
4. 4 million workers over the age of 50 – those eagerly looking forward to retirement – would be hit with increased tax bills.
5. Millions of Americans would only keep 38 cents of every dollar that they earn.
6. Senator Obama’s tax plan would reduce the after tax wages of millions of workers by 17.7%.
7. 97,065 carpenters, 110,908 police officers, 254,992 nurses, 208,562 postsecondary teachers and 237,000 dentists would see tax increases, if the earnings cap was successfully eliminated.
8. 10.3 million workers would see an average of $5,650 taken from their paycheck and given to government programs.

Posted by: Kdog1 | October 3, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

There is no comparison between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin. He is fully qualified to be president, with his intelligence, experience, understanding and empathy.

She has a good memory for talking points.

But no moment better demonstrated the differences between them than Biden's inadvertent choking up. Honest, heartfelt emotion briefly overtook him - and Palin COMPLETELY IGNORED IT.

If I didn't already despise her, I would after that moment. She is a programmed robot in all respects. Her forced folksiness only made that creepier. And her voice makes my ears bleed.

Posted by: ccatmoon | October 3, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

"as he has on meet the press, sunday morning and every other program with an audience of one or more"

Good idea, maybe Palin should put herself on those programs this weekend....

Posted by: kreuz_missile | October 3, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Well gosh darn it all, ya betcha!

I mean fer shure, when I tock directly to the American pie people with my hockey stick, they know I'd be just as fired up to have a cabinet fulla gals jes like me running this great Washington D.C. like outsiders and heck, as long as we hang tuff against those terrorists who wanna take away our way of life, well, then YEAH it shows I'm a Maverick who crates jobs.

Oh boy, with that heavy Mavericking outta the way, I need ta get back to my new helpers at Ridin' the Winky Moose Camp. No foolin!

Posted by: lindsayhowerton | October 3, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse

" Biden had the most memorable moment of the night when, in recounting the loss of his wife and daughter in a car accident, he teared up"

as he has on meet the press, sunday morning and every other program with an audience of one or more

Posted by: newagent99 | October 3, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

"Master of the non-answer, of the glittering generality."

this isn't about obama

Posted by: newagent99 | October 3, 2008 9:02 AM | Report abuse

"Typical Obama supporter ghetto trash blogger."

Classy Aspergirl. Why the choice of words- "Ghetto trash???"

I'll give you the opportunity to take that back and rephrase....

Posted by: kreuz_missile | October 3, 2008 8:59 AM | Report abuse

The bigger issue, I think, in terms of defining winners and losers here isn't about exceeding expectations, coming across as likeable, etc., it is who really did the most to help out their cause, the guy at the top of the ticket.

Palin spent the night defending herself and showing she could hang with the big dogs, which will serve to stop the bleeding on her part as of late (though it may be short lived if she follows through on her vow not to give more interviews or put herself out there to anything other than a pre-screened crowd with prepared remarks), but did it really help McCain? Other than throwing out buzzwords like "Maverick" and "Reform," what is the McCain/Palin campaign about? She started out talking about bringing back regulation, but then spent the rest of the domestic debate talking about lowering taxes and stimulating growth by getting the government out of people's lives. HELLO?? True Reaganism for sure, but totally contradicting her opening section and at a time when the country is going the other way.

Biden hammered McCain over and over again, and that is where he really did the most benefit and why in the grand scheme of things he was the winner- How would a McCain/Palin administration be different from Bush? Not a peep other than an inartful dodge. Not one issue.

Palin has shown herself to be a quick student of the Rovian playbook, right at the time the country wants something different.

Posted by: kreuz_missile | October 3, 2008 8:57 AM | Report abuse

"aspergal, what in hell are you talking about? You are equating running the country with a dogsled race? Hunting a moose? You are truly out of your mind. So if you give palin a screwdriver and a wrench she could fix a nuclear reactor because she knows how to hunt?..."

Posted by: mikel7 | October 3, 2008 8:36 AM

My post was about her learning curve, you idiot. Obama trolls have the reasoning capacity of 5 year olds. You can't be expected to extract any implicit argument without 5 paragraphs explaining how you should interpret the points. LEARNING CURVE. I think the interpretation of analogies and metaphors develops about middle school age. So you must still be in elementary school.

>>"Maybe she could lend you the screwdriver because you have got a few screws loose."

Typical Obama supporter ghetto trash blogger. Inappropriate, harassing and trashy behavior on blogs, attacking personally those who simply post their opinions, that don't support Obama.

Your trashy verbal behavior is a great argument for Democrats' passionate support for abortion.

Posted by: AsperGirl | October 3, 2008 8:56 AM | Report abuse

When asked about her "Achilles’ Heal" Palin went off on a list of her strengths. Could it be she didn't know what it meant?

Posted by: rblack2 | October 3, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Biden was superb and Palin was her usual goofiness. We CANNOT afford to have her as a VP.

Posted by: taid | October 3, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

If John McCain is a Maverick then if he wins the country will be like Goose....Killed by Maverick's Maverickness.

Posted by: Beka13 | October 3, 2008 8:47 AM | Report abuse

I am amazed that no one has noticed/commented on the fact that Palin several times in the debate said "nuclear" just as Bush does. Very depressing.
Is this indicative of the lack of "change" between Bush anbd McCain?
Or does it mean that Palin, like Bush, believes, but does not think?

Posted by: crm22 | October 3, 2008 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Palin reminded me of the gymnast that did great on style but didn't get the elements required in her routine. She failed to enunciate a program from the campaign to get done the "mavericky" things they want to do. When she strived to present facts, she flubbed but in an entertaining and cute way that the base will love. Off topic, but what is a "team of mavericks" anyway? The definition of a maverick means that you can't work in a team. You are a dissenter.

Posted by: Jay161 | October 3, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

aspergal, what in hell are you talking about? You are equating running the country with a dogsled race? Hunting a moose? You are truly out of your mind. So if you give palin a screwdriver and a wrench she could fix a nuclear reactor because she knows how to hunt? Maybe she could lend you the screwdriver because you have got a few screws loose.

Posted by: mikel7 | October 3, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

I am frightened for my country. It seems some voters have been dumbed down to the point that they applaud as a success a woman who sticks to canned talking points, who speaks a derivation of English, and who gleefully refuses to answers direct questions. What about substance? What about knowing the history of this country? What about a plan for the future?

The criteria for VP of the US should be much higher than what Sarah Palin gave us. The woman who would be a hearbeat away from the presidency is dumber and less articulate than George Bush.

God help us all.

Posted by: Seneca7 | October 3, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Palin has a hallucinatory effect on people, especially if you've stared at her on a big screen TV for 90 mins. When I yelled at my TV "But you didnt answer the question" after frustration got the better of me, my husband patted my hand and said "But I think she did OK tonight". Its the smile, its the cuteness. Even our Bush-bashing nanny was like a deer in the headlights, staring at the TV and saying "But what a smile".

Posted by: rahelamma | October 3, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

All this talk about how uninformed Palin is and yet I was shocked to see that the lawyer Biden was not aware that Article I of the constitution referes to the legislative branch of government not the executive branch. The VP is president of the senate and can preside over the senate at anytime with only voting rights during a tie. It has been only since about WWII that the tradition of appointing a president pro tempore started. The Constitution is explicit if Biden had ever actually read the constitution, What a moron...He made about 10 other mistakes or lies.

Posted by: kendrick483 | October 3, 2008 8:32 AM | Report abuse

"Can you imagine how vicious the media would be if the Democrats had dared nominate someone so unqualified?"

You mean like Obama? Yea, the media are really going after him...
========================================
Um WE elected Barack Obama because he is smart, thoughtful, practical and steady...You didnt elect Bush in a skirt. She was appointed by John McCain to blind you into forgetting that Republicans are the party who have trashed our country for the last 8 years.

Independents...Dont let them trick you!!!! She offered NO CHANGE from the first down home decider....George Bush.

Posted by: Beka13 | October 3, 2008 8:31 AM | Report abuse

What Sarah Palin is doing now is the world leadership politics version of successfully completing the Iditarod on short notice with no advance training except for the equivalent of prior pet dog owning (local politics).

I suspect that, if you were suddenly transplanted into the wilds of Alaska, and if, about a month later, we checked in on you, you would still not have tracked, shot and gutted your first moose.

I bet if the tables were turned and some politician were plucked out of DC and forced to run an Iditarod successfully with only-on-the-trail training, only one out of 20 (or fewer) senior politicians who are deemed "able to handle anything" could do it.

Once again, in straining at gnats and swallowing camels to belittle Palin, the real story is being lost.

Posted by: AsperGirl | October 3, 2008 8:08 AM | Report abuse

this is they type of in depth analysis we should all be doing to determine who our next president/vice president should be. whether they can run in a sled dog race. great stuff aspergirl. you are really focused on the important issue of the day. if only this country wasn't in a financial meltdown, fighting two wars and trillions in debt, it would be great to see if sarah could ride that sled dog down pennsylvania avenue. doggone it, i think i'll take obama/biden.

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 3, 2008 8:31 AM | Report abuse

I think both of them did well. Sarah Palin did better than I expected her to but after all she did prepare like she was cramming for a college exam. The GOP needed her to show up prepared and competent. Not like her previous interviews. However who is the real Sarah Palin?

However I agree with Roland Martin we don't need someone folksy running the country. You people who are considering voting for McCain forget that. Given his age it is a real possibility that something can happen to him in office. Is she prepared to take over? Not! She doesn't even understand what a Vice Presidents role is.

She talked about herself alot and what she so called did in Alaska. She says she has a bipartisan cabinet. I believe that cabinet if probably more Republican than Democrat. There are so few African Americans in Alaska she figures she doesn't need to reach out to them. They are Alaska citizens aren't they?

She dodged more questions than Biden. Could she have answered them? We will never know. I think probably not. Because we would of seen the real Sarah Palin.


I thought Biden did well. He was off on a few facts but less than Palin. He accomplished his job which was to go after John McCain.

I liked how he said that John MCcain has not been a maverick where it counted. You didn't hear her defend him on that. She said nothing. I thought that was part of the running mates John is to stand in your candidates corner.

It was very clear to me who is really for the Middle class. Sarah Palin's folksy talk fits right into the smokescreen the Republican puts up. Making you think you are for them with talk.

However I think Biden's message delivered that he and Barack have our best interest at heart.

Palin calling Obama's approach to Iraq reckless and an endangerment for our country I think is just not true. He wants to end the war responsibly while John McCain wants to keep our troops there. For What? It is time the Iraqi's step up to the plate. John Mccain would rather keep wasting money on a war in which we have not business over there. We keep spending our money while the Iraqi's bank account just keeps growing and growing.

I think Biden was right Mccain is out of touch.
As for Hockey Moms, I think there are more soccer Moms than Hockey Moms. I don't think just because she is a hockey Mom she can relate to the Middle class. She says that is where she and Todd came from.
However how can someone that has a million dollars in assets come from the middle class.

Don't be fooled people.

I think though the debate didn't sway people from where they are one way or another.

It is still time for a change and I think Biden made the point. How can John McCain and Sarah Palin bring about change? They have not said how they are going to do it. How can a man who will continue Bush's policies bring about the change we need?

They can't.

Palin make re-energize her base but let's see what happens when that report comes out about Troopergate.

Obama/Biden 2008


Posted by: bjlopez1130 | October 3, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse

I'm sorry, but if this is an example of "Palin holding her own," the chattering class of which you're a part, Chris, really needs to get outside more.

If "holding her own" means conscientiously avoiding answering direct questions, obfuscating on the facts, condescending to the opposition, and insulting Americans with flirts and winks during a time of crisis, it seems our standards need some adjustment. Her performance was embarrassing, especially when juxtaposed with the command Biden demonstrated.

This debate was no contest by any substantive, objective standard. Why can't you political commentators in just the media just come out and say it?

Let me do your analysis for you, then. Biden won. He answered questions. He's clearly ready to be President. Palin lost. She didn't answer questions. She's clearly not ready to be president.

Posted by: WilliamJ1 | October 3, 2008 8:17 AM | Report abuse

I give Mrs. Palin credit for not stumbling and sounding, at times, like she knew what she was talking about. However, I did not think she did very well in the debate for a few reasons: 1. She purposefully did not answer questions that were asked. If she was a student and did that one a test, she would fail, so for that I have to fail her. 2. She gave very little substance in her answers even when she attempted to answer the question. 3. She tried too hard to be cute. I don't mind cute and folksy but that really is not what I want in a leader who needs to talk with high ranking officials from all over the world.

Mr. Biden on the other hand, gave substantive answers. He spoke directly to the questions that were asked, although he did go to talking points a few too many times.

The bottom line was this for me: if something happened to the president, which one of these people would I feel more comfortable in the Oval office. For me, right now, the answer is Mr. Biden. In a few years, if she becomes interested in the world and not just Alaska, Mrs. Palin may be a formidable opponent.

Posted by: puppiesandkitties | October 3, 2008 8:12 AM | Report abuse

I am bored with Biden.

.

Posted by: 37thandOStreet | October 3, 2008 8:11 AM | Report abuse

I'm so tired of Palin pretending to be an energy expert. If she were, she would have been able to come up with last year's Supreme Court case, Mass v EPA, on climate change. Anybody working on energy deals with it on a regular basis. And I'm sure she disagrees with it. She's a self-parody.

Posted by: vagolfer | October 3, 2008 8:09 AM | Report abuse

What Sarah Palin is doing now is the world leadership politics version of successfully completing the Iditarod on short notice with no advance training except for the equivalent of prior pet dog owning (local politics).

I suspect that, if you were suddenly transplanted into the wilds of Alaska, and if, about a month later, we checked in on you, you would still not have tracked, shot and gutted your first moose.

I bet if the tables were turned and some politician were plucked out of DC and forced to run an Iditarod successfully with only-on-the-trail training, only one out of 20 (or fewer) senior politicians who are deemed "able to handle anything" could do it.

Once again, in straining at gnats and swallowing camels to belittle Palin, the real story is being lost.

Posted by: AsperGirl | October 3, 2008 8:08 AM | Report abuse

I watched the debate at 3 a.m. in Berlin, Germany. If I needed proof that Palin is NOT ready for the job, I got it. She was only saved by the format of the so-called debate and by the fact that the moderator was too afraid not to throw a tough follow-up question at Palin or force her to answer at least the original question. Joe Biden could have easily nailed her, since she exposed, for everyone to see, an amazing lack of knowledge of the issues - no wonder, since it's not possible to fill those gaps during a 3-day debate drill camp... But Biden needed to avoid the impression of bullying the newcomer, who also happens to be a woman.
America - the land where everything is possible? Really? Even Palin for VP and maybe President? God save America!

Posted by: dschff | October 3, 2008 8:08 AM | Report abuse

Hey, she has a Sally Fields grin in her toolkit, too. Almost a dead ringer in the above photon.

Posted by: AsperGirl | October 3, 2008 8:07 AM | Report abuse

Your analysis surprises me a bit, Chris, though I am noticing your drift more and more. If you were on the electoral map you would be a "lean McCain" state trying to pose as a "toss up". We were witnessing a debate to help us decide who would be the best Vice-President, not American Idol.

I am more distressed (a modest description at best) by the thought of Sarah Palin as Vice President, or more frightening, as President, than I was before the debate, and I was fairly distressed before I watched the debate.

The most disturbing thing: she memorized the lines of her coaches, checked her cards frequently to make sure she was able to answer with their sentences (no one seems to have noticed this), and then said lines prepared for her. I never did get a sense of any independent thinking on critical policy issues facing the nation, with the possible exception of "Drill, Baby, Drill". What does it mean that a group of coaches could determine policies for her since she has not thought these things out independently? That I found chilling.

Who would run the country if she had to assume the presidency? Her coaches? Behind a facade of folksiness? I think we have already tested that model. Some people may be enchanted with her personality and perkiness. That response feels like a "lemmings to the sea" event for me.

Joe Biden clearly demonstrated his readiness for the position. That was the intent of the debate, I think, and he met the challenge superbly.

Posted by: pbkritek | October 3, 2008 8:04 AM | Report abuse

LOL:

:::::

"Can you imagine how vicious the media would be if the Democrats had dared nominate someone so unqualified?"

You mean like Obama? Yea, the media are really going after him...

Posted by: rdd265 | October 3, 2008 7:39 AM

Posted by: AsperGirl | October 3, 2008 7:56 AM | Report abuse

All of the Palin bashers have to contend with this fact: a focus group on Fox of Dems, Independents and Republicans gave her the win. Yes, they'll whine: Fox?!

Luntz's focus groups are well run better than that joke Soledad on CNN who bumbles and is disjointed. If you question his findings, his focus group last week gave the win to Obama.

Also regarding CNN: get rid of Toobin - put him on legal assignments. He doesn't know squat. John King's county by county analysis during primaries showed great competency compared to Toobin's "Broadcast News" moments on live TV where he sweated and lost train of thought.

Posted by: chetdbaker | October 3, 2008 7:52 AM | Report abuse

The only expectation that Palin exceeded was to deliver some scripted responses that lacked any form of substance. She failed miserably on the debate since she told the moderator that she would not answer any questions that she had. According to the rules of debate, you have to answer whatever question(s) or subject(s) that the moderator asks for an answer or a valid point. Palin delivered none.

Biden came away as the true winner and debator to put the Obama ticket 2-0 against McCain.

Posted by: hieian | October 3, 2008 7:49 AM | Report abuse

1) She overplayed folksy, like a caricature. I think men may have liked her better, I may be wrong ...

2) She did not answer majority of questions. She ignored many of them completely and any one with more than two brain cells working could see she knew NOTHING about any policy, period. She just made speech sound bites and kept reading from her notes.

3) 'Cause there was no teleprompter, she again could not say Nuclear.

4) I think her efforts were 30% for the VP of US audience and 70% for her reelection as Alaska Governer.

5) Moderator SUCKED !! She took the meaning literally and was very moderate and never pointed out that Sarah was not answering any questions.

6)She gave me heebie jeebies when talking about more power for VP office and that VP is executive branch AND legislative branch.

McCain must have not liked his country very much to turn some one like her loose on us.

Posted by: mom_in_metro | October 3, 2008 7:45 AM | Report abuse

Obama was just on television asking "The QUESTION is CHANGE TO WHAT?"


Thank you

Change to an Inexperience Affirmative Action guy with NO Economic and No Business Experience except for buying cocatine ???


Obama is not the right man for the position.

Obama really hurt himself with that question because he exposes himself as an empty suit who has simply been promoted his entire career to fill affirmative action slots.

.

Posted by: 37thandOStreet | October 3, 2008 7:43 AM | Report abuse

"Can you imagine how vicious the media would be if the Democrats had dared nominate someone so unqualified?"

You mean like Obama? Yea, the media are really going after him...

Posted by: rdd265 | October 3, 2008 7:39 AM | Report abuse

So Palin managed not to sound as horrible as she has the last few weeks? How depressing. It was outrageous that she got up there and announced she wasn't going to answer the moderator's questions. Oh, really? Could Biden have said that? Iffil was disappointing-- dry, boring questions, no follow up, nothing off the cuff. I agree that her hands-off style played into Palin's hands especially since she continually went to Biden first giving Palin time to rehearse and never asked for follow up. But what was most awful was Palin. Can we stop with the little winks and affectations that are really so nauseating? We don't need a bad used car salesman who happens to be cute right now. we need brilliant minds that are focused like a laser on fixing the mess we're in. Obama and Biden have proven they are at least capable of that and Obama has run an impressive, tight ship campaign. McCain has run a flailing, erratic, ugly campaign and the Palin pick disqualifies him, period.

Posted by: lsigalov1 | October 3, 2008 7:38 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, Chris, but Palin did not remotely come off as likeable. She came off as a mean cheerleader, mouthing platitudes with a fake folksy speaking voice. She used her infant child as a prop, which was bound to offend mothers who actually care about their children and know that no six month old has any business under the bright lights of that stage. She was annoying, perky and a complete and utter twit. She lied, she misstated, she fumbled and she ignored nearly every question. She made Dan Quayle look like Stephen Hawking.

Posted by: truble2301 | October 3, 2008 7:35 AM | Report abuse

Palin owned Biden. He was on the defensive too many times. Palin, 5 weeks on campaign, Biden 30 +, Obama 8 +, since he began running for President before he reached the Senate, as evident in his autobiographies. In the wake of so much pressure and not having the debate experience as her opponents, she knocked it out of the park. Her performance will bring swing states back into play.

One more note: I liked Biden and thought: why isn't he running for Pres and Obama his VP!

Posted by: chetdbaker | October 3, 2008 7:31 AM | Report abuse

Couric won. You won, Katie.

...Apologies to Katie Couric, whose interviews with Palin told us more about Palin than Ifill's connect-the-dots, no-follow-up-questions approach.

When Katie pressed Palin on the newspapers she read, and Palin couldn't identify one -- not even her hometown newspaper -- and on the Supreme Court cases she disagreed with, and again Palin couldn't name one, that told thinking Americans all they needed to know about Palin.

Gwen seemed somewhat intimidated and afraid to ask any followups even when Palin's answers didn't even relate to the topic much less answer the question. So the Drudge-driven attacks on Gwen from the previous day clearly worked.

Gwen Ifill: Please see registrar. Re-enroll in Journalism 101, Northern Virginia Community College. Office opens at 9:15am. As the late Paul "Hustler" Newman might have said: Gwen, keep your day job but don't be showing up at any big-time debate again.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | October 3, 2008 7:26 AM | Report abuse

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Palins contrived ‘gosh darn heckster’ folkiness went beyond laughable into the realm of ludicrous. I’m from Main Street & we don’t have to pretend to talk like that.
She gets an ‘F’ from this teacher for copying–straight out of the Republican playbook. Joe Biden invoked his Main Street Cred just twice and stole the show. As for the ‘Less Gov’t’ gambit– it’s just old, tired and worn-out. Apparently Palin would prefer to be born yesterday everyday–deaf dumb and blind. We don’t need Oil Moms, we need subtance in our leadership. Just as FDR created the New Deal in past hard times, Obama/Biden are the Real Deal now.

Posted by: kwill1 | October 3, 2008 7:23 AM | Report abuse

From:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/shorter-debate.html

Thursday, October 02, 2008
Shorter Debate

Part I: Palin did not answer questions directly.

Part II: Biden incredibly strong--pointed out Palin "I heard no plan" on Iraq, very strong on economic and FP issues.

Veep issue devastating against Palin--actually claimed broader powers for VP, clearly without knowing actual constitutional powers. Biden powerful on Cheney--dials way up.

And then...The turning point. The Biden tears. After that, Biden was most clear, passionate and strong, and from there, Palin was gibberish.

Biden win.


Update:

CNN:

National poll of Debate Watchers:

Who won:

Biden: 51%

Palin: 36%

From:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/shorter-debate.html

Posted by: robthewsoncamb | October 3, 2008 7:22 AM | Report abuse

I've been reading blogs from newspapers all over the country, and it's remarkable how many people associate Sarah Palin with the friendly check-out girl at the local grocery store. Both are attactive, friendly and commonsensical, but neither should be vice president, much less president of the United States of America.

Posted by: davemarks | October 3, 2008 7:19 AM | Report abuse

Oh come on Gov Sarah Palin WON the Debate and made that pathetic old phony long winded snobbish snooty smirking arrogant
fraud that is the real big mouth Joe Biden
for all see what a loser both Joe Biden and
phony fake Messiah Bail Out Barry Chicago
Shake Down Artist Con Man Total Empty Suit
Barack Hussein Obama is as well since it is
hard to tell which Barack Hussein Obama or
Big Mouth Joe Biden is the bigger joke of
all times that the Marxist/Socialist Democrat Party has ever come up with it's
long history of endless losers,from Obama &
Biden,John Kerry and Pretty Boy John Edwards,Al Gore and Joe Liberman,Micheal
Dukakis and Gerldine Ferraro on to the Dem's all time loser George McGovern.

Way to Go Barracuda Sarah Palin you kicked
old Big Shot Loud Mouth Joe Biden Butt!
The Republicans ought to Dump Wall Street
Johnny Amnesty John McCain and run Gov
Sarah Palin for President instead since
Gov Sarah Palin would send Bail Out Barry
Messiah Barack Hussein Obama packing back
to Chicago and his sleazy Chicago Crime
Family Pals,like Tony Rezko and Ayres!

Posted by: SherryKay2004 | October 3, 2008 7:18 AM | Report abuse

Sara Palin proved that it's possible to pass an open book exam, but only barely, by cramming. But she showed no mastery of the subjects of last nights debates. I kept trying to imagine how the folksy, eye winking techniques would work when trying to stare down an aggressive dictator like Vladimir Putin. That didn't give me a secure feeling. Add to her total lack of knowledge about Supreme Court cases and total ignorance about the Constitution. Those who think she would make a good Vice-president are not taking the office seriously enough. The best thing she can do for the United States is buy a one way ticket back to Alaska.

Posted by: L-D-M | October 3, 2008 7:15 AM | Report abuse

Grades for the Biden and Palin:

Biden: A-. Solid performance. Answered every question as read to him. Could he step in as pres. if called upon? No question about it.

Palin: Incomplete (please see registrar to re-enroll) Too many idiotic Hee Haw stunts, non-answers, and "heckuvas."

The stunt of announcing at the outset she would answer the questions "her way" not Gwen's way -- meaning she would give unrelated, irrelevant excerpts (usually on taxes and energy) from her memorized talking points instead of answers -- was demeaning to the process and embarrassed herself and the American people (Dems and Repubs). As Maddow and Matthews suggested, Palin came across as a over-rehearsed, over-caffeinated Elly Mae Clampett at the town spelling bee.

Coud she step in as president? -- Are you kidding me? Better my corner grocer.

This was not even close. Why did they waste Joe's time with this? I hope other countries didn't stay up to watch this junk.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | October 3, 2008 7:09 AM | Report abuse

Folksy vs. intelligent, informed and decisive. Isn't the election about wrapping up 8 miserable years of "folksy" I'm going to do it my way? For all of the McCain/Palin effort to minimize Geo. W. Bush, it seems odd to float a candidate who is the female version of our good ol' boy president.

Posted by: davemarks | October 3, 2008 7:08 AM | Report abuse

Media analysis of the debate seems generally spot on. I'm left to announce my new bumper sticker:
"OBAMA-BIDEN
YOU BETCHA!"

Posted by: miltcapps | October 3, 2008 7:05 AM | Report abuse

Gov. Palin's folksiness reminded me of another folksy, likable, non-substantive debater/'decider'. How's that working out?

Think she can step into the financial crisis?
(feel free to insert the Maverick here, as well)
Think she could manage Iraq, or Middle East relations or Afghanistan?
Think she really has an energy solution?
Think health care will improve under her stead?

You get the government you deserve, so cutting off your nose to spite your face will do just that.

Fortunately, there is an alternative that offers affirmative responses to those questions.

Obama/Biden

Posted by: gotoogawa | October 3, 2008 7:04 AM | Report abuse

I saw nothing but talking points that have been out here for several weeks. The thing that disturbs me is each of them repeats things that are so misleading, and border on outright LIES, that the public has no idea of what each campaign has in mind to at least confront the issues that most of us are concerned about.

Posted by: lylepink | October 3, 2008 6:58 AM | Report abuse

It's great that the candidates could have a civilized debate, unlike a lot of talk on blogs here. A lot of people were cheering for Palin to fall flat on her face, and she didn't. So, let the disgruntled Palin critics here ramble on about how they are among the enlightened ones and how everybody else is an "idiot." At least now we can get on to more serious matters in the campaign.

Posted by: ttj1 | October 3, 2008 6:57 AM | Report abuse

Forget about Palin's reaction to Biden choking up.
Focus on her refusal to answer one single question without first "saying something
about energy".

Posted by: julian2 | October 3, 2008 6:46 AM | Report abuse

My biggest concern is whether or not Palin is knowledgeable enough to handle the job, especially given her recent interviews.

What I saw during the debate was a woman who started each segment very "folksy" (too cute), then turned serious suddenly, stopped smiling, looked at the camera, and went into a memorized speech.

No she didn't fall flat, but she certainly didn't give me any confidence at all that she knows anything HERSELF, in any detail, about the issues that face our country.

It also seemed that she kept looking at flash cards or something...that also concerned me quite a bit.

Posted by: XMEE | October 3, 2008 6:34 AM | Report abuse

menopausequeen, your brain need not stop working when your uterus does.

No one cares if Sarah Palin has a run in her hose. Or if she forgets a name, or uses an established debating point, or stumbles over a word.

What people object to is when it becomes transparently obvious that you are clinging to said talking points like a drowning rat clings to a shipwreck--and that you are, in fact, completely at sea when you are forced to go beyond them and say something original about an issue without preparation.

Palin fared better tonight than with Couric because the format her campaign demanded insulated her from direct exchanges and follow-up questions, and also because she simply ignored the questions she didn't have an answer for.

I wish I could've tried that last trick on my school exams! "I may not solve this tricky calculus integral problem the way you want me to, but I'm darn happy to have this chance to discuss 2 + 2 with the American people."

None of it really matters much. Meltdown or no, people still don't like manifest shallowness and ignorance in their leaders. And they've just suffered 8 years of Incurious George Bush sealed in his hermetic bubble full of unshakable Gut Feelings, surrounded by handlers and whining about the media filter.

So, dressing him in a skirt and teaching him to wink at the camera isn't quite the change people are looking for, I'm afraid. You guys DO realize you could have picked a decently well-informed running-mate...right? Then you wouldn't have to make all these embarrassing excuses for Governor Mooselini.

Posted by: youarestillidiots | October 3, 2008 5:41 AM | Report abuse

I am glad that Gov. Palin did well. I am glad that the two candidates seemed to respect and even like each other.

I hope Americans can move beyond past antagonism among parties and the press and do the difficult work of building egalitarian peace and prosperity for all.

But, if there was a key moment of this debate, it belonged to Biden when he said something to the effect of "Just because I'm not a woman doesn't mean I can't understand" talk around the kitchen table, wrestling with difficult family issues. Etc.

The way he raised and dealt with obviously personal, emotional issues - and made them political. This, to me, carried the event.

Posted by: Hillman75 | October 3, 2008 5:26 AM | Report abuse

Why didn't Biden Call her on the claims that McCain "Suspended" his campaign? Other than blowing off Letterman, I am not sure what John McCain completed in his 20+ hour campaign suspension. His ads continued, he did Katie Curic Interview, spoke at the Clinton event - oh yeah and didn't get a deal done. Claimed victory over a deal that is STILL not passed the house, criticized Obama for calling to monitor the situation, then spent Saturday calling and monitoring the situation. John McCain has spent the last few weeks running around like a chicken with his head cut off - and we are supposed to follow him as our leader?

Posted by: cherron67 | October 3, 2008 5:24 AM | Report abuse

Overall, Biden won by far on substance and content. Palin was evasive. She seemed to just blurt out talking points even if they didn't relate to the questions. At times, you could see she was struggling to recall the platitudes.

I know this may be trivial. But I was really, really shocked by Palin's lack of empathy towards Biden after he became emotional upon re-telling his personal tragedy of losing his wife and child. She said nothing, she didn't show any signs of emotion or even seem to register what Biden was referring to. She immediately started attacking Obama and Biden. In that moment, she came across as heartless and insensitive. It was in extreme poor taste.

That was the most memorable moment in the debate for me. It told to me that the folksy, warm, loving persona is really an act. She seemed just like any other cold politician unable to relate to her fellow human's suffering.

Posted by: BlackLibertarian | October 3, 2008 5:17 AM | Report abuse

Thanks to Palin and her closing statement, we now have a translation of that odd word "filter" Republicans keep using when they speak of the media, as in: "I relish the chance to talk to the American people without the media filter!"

After watching this performance, I realized that "filter" refers to "follow-up question"--or, at times, simply "questions", period.

She's so deeply honored to be at this debate, thank you very much, Gwen--but if she doesn't feel like answering your question on regulation or health care then you can just lump it, 'cause she's gonna talk about energy, darn it all!

I for one am glad we finally have a Maverick Washington Outsider who views the press as a passive tool for one-way communication rather than, say, an aggressive advocate for the voting public who aren't given the opportunity to pose questions.

And man, it's awesome that she enjoys delivering her scripted talking points without the inconvenience of being questioned or challenged, or even asked to elaborate on the substance.

That definitely sounds like a TOTALLY new kind of politics to me; in fact, I'm positive I haven't seen ANYTHING REMOTELY LIKE IT in the last EIGHT YEARS.

Posted by: youarestillidiots | October 3, 2008 5:15 AM | Report abuse

How predictable. Yesterday you were all looking forward to the painful destruction of Governor Palin in view of millions.
This morning it is; "She seemed fake"
"She seemed snotty"
"She is an idiot"
"She used talking points"
That cracks me up like any politician ever doesn't use talking points. Regardless of who you are supporting, a little humility and some reality could go a long way.
We all know the media has been dumping on her from all corners and was looking to rip her apart if she even had a run in her panty hose last evening. All sense of rational thought seems to have escaped this election cycle and it is flooded with overly emotional, screaming partisans.

Posted by: menopausequeen | October 3, 2008 5:15 AM | Report abuse

Palin did fine. Biden did fine. NEITHER is the Dan Quayle the other side wants to paint them as. When will the spinning stop? Remember when politics was about "Who do I agree with?"?

Posted by: dyinglikeflies1 | October 3, 2008 4:34 AM | Report abuse

As a woman with 30 years in business, I decided that one of the participants in Thursday night's debate falls into the category of "fluff muffin", a term commonly used in my home town business community for women who don't know much but get lots of mileage out of their looks and being flirtatious.

And the "fluff muffin" wasn't Gwen Ifell...

Posted by: tomwfox | October 3, 2008 4:24 AM | Report abuse

All Palin proved was that she can memorize talking points. She still has no substance. I felt let down by Gwen; I expect more from here. Palin was unprofessional and did not prove to me that she should be a heart beat away from the presidency. We are in crisis in this country and she is not ready. The folksy rhetoric did not impress me. I did not like the wink - wink business. It is a shame that journalists and men have been made to feel that Palin has to be handled with kid gloves and not accountable for any remarks/comments she makes. This is for the Vice Presidency of the U S of A!

Posted by: claudiam1 | October 3, 2008 4:23 AM | Report abuse

Chris,
Biden did great. He was warm, tough, and specific in his pro-Obama program descriptions and his anti-McCain analyses. Palin easily cleared the low expectations bar, but didn't get beyond platitudes and sometimes oddly juxtaposed talking points. She didn't really connect in a genuine way with the viewing public, as Biden did, beyond a few cutesy parlor tricks.

The polling that night indicates that Biden did much better. People liked him and he made a lot of sense. Palin didn't make any major mistakes and showed courage to be up there on stage after her rough couple of weeks, but didn't do her ticket much good, beyond reassuring her own base, which was the minimum you would expect from a running mate.

Posted by: johnsonc2 | October 3, 2008 3:42 AM | Report abuse

Were Palin a man, she would be considered a doofus poser trying to get by on looks and guile. Since she's a GOP right wing woman nutjob, if she doesn't let drool fall down her lip during the debate, she wins it, per the GOP spin. Sorry, I'm not buyin it. Voting for Palin is like buyin those mortgage back securities -- you're not sure what they're worth, but you know it ain't much.

Posted by: ursadog | October 3, 2008 3:36 AM | Report abuse

Americans, you have had a folksy
candidate for the last 8 years.
They have made rich people richer, tried
to wipe out legislations to protect the environment, and widened up that gap between rich and poor; oh and riddled 2 countries with bombs bullets and bloodshed.
Wake up

Posted by: frankie4 | October 3, 2008 3:34 AM | Report abuse

acasilaco said:

"Biden did just fine, accomplishing everything that was expected of him. But nobody was really tuning in to see him."

--While they may have tuned in to see her, what everyone who had any kind of open or discerning mind saw was Biden is light years beyond Palin in competence and appropriateness to become President, if necessary.

"Palin vastly exceeded expectations (which were, after the Couric interviews, pretty low)."

--Surprise, surprise. She vastly exceeded expectations that she wouldn't be able to speak in coherent sentences and would single-handedly annihilate her running mate's credibility!

That was a very real risk, and that risk will be in play every day until Nov 3rd, unless her handlers refuse ALL interviews with anyone but FOX News and the most loyal Republican reporters.

With 3 days of full time coaching-- give the girl a medal --she was able to speak in complete sentences and shut up quickly.

It doesn't matter that she was never able to go beyond parroting tiresome cliches and sound bytes that no one believes, and other pathetic drivel.

What she delivered was 100% meaningless and lame blah, blah, blah ... such as (paraphrased): "McCain led the way on gathering everyone on the Hill and creating bipartisan cooperation for the bailout," and "Maverick, maverick, maverick, we mavericks."

I'll give it to her, though, she did demonstrate was some skill at regurgitating empty, memorized phrases.

Not your most heartening qualification for a president in waiting.

Posted by: ann_shannon | October 3, 2008 3:32 AM | Report abuse

As they say; those in Washington and New York expect and idolize those who speak with a certain fluidity and the abilility to spew endless strings of adjectivies in unending permutations to the point of being non-sensical, yet are taken on face value and never challenged.

Palin is not as slick as the lawyer trained crowds and there are thousands of them; not all practicing law - nonetheless, employed and doing behind the scenes work within these campaigns (both sides).

What we should really be worried about is who will be named to power with the cabinet position giveaways with whomever comes into power. The behind-the-scenes kingmakers are not doing this for just for fun and games. They have been promised key slots in the new regime. Wish I knew who those individuals were and also the financing arms - what has been pledged to those kicking in the bucks. Alas, this is never revealed, so merrily we roll along.

Sarah did a fantastic job - actually amazing - she has only been on script for 6 weeks or so compared to the rest of the ticket(s). She is ready for the "play" and that is what the one and two positions are really (actors) while Congress holds all the power (the purse strings). By the way, they haven't been holding them all that well for the last sixteen years.

We have brought this travesty down on our own heads by not holding accountable those who do not play well in the sandbox. They are still "bringing home the bacon", the $700B packages could only be made more palatable by increasing another $100B or more - now the House or Reps can easily get everyones vote on this baby.

Let us rock on, seek chug words, and party on, because this is fun. There is more to come. Get this Election Off The Stage - so the next one can start in December.

Posted by: w_merrill | October 3, 2008 3:24 AM | Report abuse

“You are not a Hillary supporter. Hillary has nothing in coming with Palin except that she is a woman. Nothing else whatsoever!!! So if you equate vote to Palin to a vote for Hillary, you are more ignorant than I could imagine.
Posted by: ASKNOT | October 3, 2008 12:45 AM”

Yeah, right on. One has had to deal with “No jobs” and the other has had to deal with “Blow jobs.”

Posted by: KingofCool | October 3, 2008 3:21 AM | Report abuse

O.k. Palin didn't fall flat on her face but no way is she ready to be V.P. This debate didn't change anything as far as if Palin' ready to lead. Palin seemed very nervous and we'll rehearsed. Palin didn't answer the moderators questions. Palin spoke about what she rehearsed to talk about. She seemed like she was reciting a memorized speech.

Posted by: amosdefnails | October 3, 2008 3:20 AM | Report abuse

Ummm yer...

We just need to remember here that Palin is running to be VP of the most powerful country on earth.

Remembering her talking points and being folksy is simply not enough.

Opinions about her have been deteriorating - in conservative quarters as well.

I dont think this debate stemmed that tide.

Posted by: anya7lee | October 3, 2008 2:58 AM | Report abuse

So ha! ha! You WAPO OBama/Biden Shills got
it wrong about Gov Sarah Palin as she sure
kicked that smirking,sneering,arrogant,old
loud mouth pathetic Joe Biden butt real
real good! And Joe Biden Was Pathetic! And
let his motor mouth run on overdrive like
Biden always does since Joe Biden never did
have good sense enough to know when to just
shut up! Biden needs to retire right now!
In fact his buddy the Sleazy Chicago Shake
Down Artist Phony ACORN Community Organizer
Creep Covert Muslim Avowed Marxist and
Socialist Empty Suit Fake Messiah Loser
Barack Hussein Obama needs to go back to
nailing up flyers for Mayor Daley again.

So I say Gov Sarah Palin WON The DEBATE!
And I Bet Gov Palin Could Beat Obama Hands
Down In A Debate Even If Obama Was Using
His Magic Teleprompter! Sarah Palin Go Girl! If Barack Hussein Obama and an old
fool big mouth are the best the dimwit
Democrats have to offer no wonder the Democrats keep losing elections,like they
will this time as well.

Independent Voters For Gov Sarah Palin!

Posted by: Jan1977 | October 3, 2008 2:57 AM | Report abuse

GOV. PALIN HUMILIATED LIBERAL PUNDITS AND NETWORKS, AND OBAMA SUPPORTERS BECAUSE THEY DID NOT EXPECTED SUCH AN OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE FROM HER!!!

* CNN and MSNBC = Obama propaganda network.

* Gov. Palin was clearly familiar with the issues. Liberal networks tried to say she was spewing prepared talking points. However, it is not possible for her to be so eloquent if she was just using memorized talking points. The Lib. networks is just saying these things to degrade her outstanding performance.

* CNN pundits were saying Gov. Palin performance was good but not good enough to move polls. They are wrong. They are saying this to take away enthusiasm for her.

* BTW, she was substantive enough to make her points within the 2 minutes given.

Posted by: lazerboy | October 3, 2008 2:55 AM | Report abuse

That accent and 'Folkesy' turn of phrase... How many people were waiting for Calamity Palin to take centre stage and start singing 'The Deadwood Stage'. At times it seemed real close Y'all.
In the end people vote for the President, but Senator Biden showed he has all the credentials for the VP slot.

Posted by: trevor1 | October 3, 2008 2:48 AM | Report abuse

From "Fact of The Matter"
http://www.need4trth.blogspot.com

The debate with Senator Biden and Governor Palin was interesting yet, instructional. Governor Palin demonstrated tonight that she is really a PUPPETTED MOUTHPIECE of the Republican Party. On a personal note: I became convinced the Gov. Sarah Palin was a forced choice for VP on the Republican side, that it was last minute, and that it was totally for 'POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY'.

Tonight we saw an image, a very beautiful, dressed up, republican image, of an RNC,, SYCOPHANT. Perfect analogy. Dictionary.com defines sycophant as a self-seeking, servile flatterer; fawning parasite. In modern terms, "A yes man/woman, flunky fawner, flatterer. Nothing more. Governor Palin demonstrated this perfectly. She in other words was the perfect "republican talking point".

Governor Palin tried to attack Senator Biden on supposedly flip-flopping on issues of which he now agrees with Senator Obama and at one point had agreed and supposedly even endorsed Bush/McCain's war strategies. This accusation led Senator biden to trounce the policies of Bush/McCain by pointing out the failures of hese policies especially our position in NATO as to not be a dictatorship, as Bush/McCain have allowed and endorsed as diplomatic policy. It was a wonderful moment of silencing a someone parroting a republican lie. I loved the fact that Senator Biden used the term of the title of this blog "Fact of the Matter." The Fact of The Matter is Governor Palin came out on the stage to Parrot Lies.

One of the most defining arguments occurred when Governor Palin endorsed The Bush Cheney, idea of what is the job of the vice president. Senator Biden pointed it out that the Constitutions latitude for the Vice President was very smaller than that of which Cheney abused it's powers as. The defining job of the Vice Presidents role is two things, in the unfortunate event that the sitting President dies the Vice President then steps in to that office. the other definition of the office of Vice President is too be the tie breaker in the senate vote. Biden knocked that one out of the ballpark.


THE MAVERICK REFORMER IMAGE OF JOHN MCCAIN STRIPPED AND LAID BARE FOR WHAT IT IS A LIE......

One final comment I have is this the title, "Maverick", which the Corporate Media has invented for John McCain, was thoroughly undone when Biden went down the voting record of a POLITICAL YES-MAN that is McCain's TRUE record. Many things which have adversely affected our economy, our standing in the world, but especially Main Street. John McCain has shown non support for the regular American person, which would constitute a Maverick standing. It was pointed out that McCain sided with Bush on all of the failed policies of this Administration. I LOVED IT.

I have felt that the Corporate Media and Senator McCain use that title as well as his supposed Hero status much too loosely. General Wesley Clarke pointed out RIGHTLY that getting shot down while in an airplane doing illegal maneuvers, and becoming a POW was not the LITMUS TEST for Presidential readiness.


FINAL COMMENTS.....

In Bidens final statements he brought up this point about what the RNC and John McCain has been engaging in during this campaign. He said He, like Senator Obama would NEVER question the motive of someones ambition for the office of public service. John McCain has engaged in this UGLY STYLE OF CAMPAIGN EVEN AFTER HE PROMISED HE WOULD NOT. Governor Palin in her attacks endorsed john McCain and the RNC's political strategies. She in a sense said, "John's lying and being very ugly and demonstrating political immaturity, I'm Governor Sarah Palin and I approve this propaganda style campaigning."

Now for the facts from Factcheck the Wire :

Troop Levels Off
Palin got her numbers wrong on troop levels when she said that troops were now down to “pre-surge” levels. The surge was announced in January 2007, at which point there were 132,000 troops in Iraq according to the Brookings Institute Iraq Index. As of September 2008, that number was 146,000. President Bush recently announced that another 8,000 would be coming home by February of next year. But that would still be 6,000 more than when the surge began.

Posted under FactCheck.org

This post was written by Justin Bank on October 2, 2008

Killing Afghan Civilians?
Obama did say that troops in Afghanistan were killing civilians, a claim that Palin calls “untrue.” Here’s the whole quote, from a campaign stop in New Hampshire:

Obama, August 2007: We’ve got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we’re not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there.

The Associated Press fact-checked this one, and found that in fact U.S troops were killing more civilians at the time than insurgents: “As of Aug. 1, the AP count shows that while militants killed 231 civilians in attacks in 2007, Western forces killed 286. Another 20 were killed in crossfire that can’t be attributed to one party.” Afghan president Hamid Karzai had expressed concern about these civilian killings, a concern President Bush said he shared.

Posted under FactCheck.org

This post was written by Jess Henig on October 2, 2008

2005 Energy Bill Deja Vu
Palin threw out an old canard when she criticized Obama for voting for the 2005 Energy bill, saying, “that’s what gave those oil companies those big tax breaks.”
It’s a false attack Clinton used against Obama in the primary and McCain himself has hurled. It’s true that the bill gave some tax breaks to oil companies, but it also took away others. And according to the Congressional Research Service, the bill created a slight net increase in taxes for the oil industry.

Posted under Barack Obama, FactCheck.org

This post was written by Justin Bank on October 2, 2008

The Iraqi Surplus
Biden said that Iraq had an “$80 billion surplus.” Obama said the same — $79 billion — in the last debate, and we called him on it then. Seventy-nine billion is an out-of-date projection. The Iraqis currently have $29 billion in the bank, and could have $47 billion to $59 billion by the end of the year.

Posted under FactCheck.org

This post was written by Jess Henig on October 2, 2008

Obama Voted Against Troop Funding?
Palin repeated the claim that Obama “voted against funding our troops.” The claim refers to a single 2007 vote against a war funding bill. Obama voted for a version of the bill that included language calling for withdrawing troops from Iraq. President Bush vetoed it. (McCain supported that veto, but didn’t call it “vetoing support for our troops.”) What Obama voted against was the same bill without withdrawal language. And he had voted yes on at least 10 other war funding bills prior to that single 2007 no vote.


Posted under FactCheck.org

Posted by: need4trth | October 3, 2008 2:46 AM | Report abuse

I think the Main-Stream Media's tactic backfired tonight at the VP Debate. You all set the standard for what was expected from Sarah Palin. All she had to do was rise above the characterization of Tina Fey in the Saturday Night Live skit and not say something like, "and I can see Russia from my house." I don't even think Hilary could have debated Joe as well, even with Bill at her side!

Posted by: marchino | October 3, 2008 2:45 AM | Report abuse

too bad your chug words weren't "the previous administration" then you would be too drunk to type

Posted by: coolerdave | October 3, 2008 2:34 AM | Report abuse

The debate convinced my wife, who was for Clinton, to vote for McCain-Palin.

Posted by: mesondk | October 3, 2008 2:32 AM | Report abuse

"Maverick" was our "chug word", so I may be a little drunk to offer an opinion. But Palin looked like a moose in headlights imbecile to me, while Biden looked like a know-it-all politician.

In this day and age, I'm picking the overly smart guys who know it all over the idiots who lucked out and got to try out on American Idol for the President of the United States.

Biden by a full moose length in this race.

Posted by: PDiddy | October 3, 2008 2:17 AM | Report abuse

I think it's hilarious that all of a sudden their is this concern about politicians sticking to the question as if it's unique to Palin ...

Posted by: coolerdave | October 3, 2008 2:16 AM | Report abuse

Does Sarah understand what "Achilles Heel" means?

Posted by: fred_flintstone | October 3, 2008 2:16 AM | Report abuse

The question about whether the President is part of the executive branch, the legislative branch or both was telling.

As to Palin, I listened to her answer twice and I still could figure out her position.

As to Biden, Article one describes the job description of a Vice president. They vote when there is a 50/50 tie, and they help out the president.

Nuff said. She doesn't know, don't you know.

She's just so adorable when she's lost on a subject she knows nothing about. Just the kind of person, I want talking to foreign heads of state.

Posted by: ashyom | October 3, 2008 2:14 AM | Report abuse

"Can I call you Joe?" - so why didn't she?

Posted by: grabmeru | October 3, 2008 2:11 AM | Report abuse

Typical libs ... if you disagree with the liberal credo then you must be an idiot ..
No left bias in the media .. yeah right
.. and when Obama wins and has a Dem house and Senate expect him to go the way of Jimmy Carter in 4 years .. but that won't matter because you all stars are going to screw up the Supreme court for another 30 years.. which is really what this election is all about.

Posted by: coolerdave | October 3, 2008 2:10 AM | Report abuse

It disgusts me that Palin demonstrates no clue about the Iraq issue yet explicitly used her son's future deployment there during the debate. This was a hail Mary foreign policy credential, which Biden (who also has a son deploying to Iraq) didn't need to use.

She wants to win this pageant REALLY badly.

Posted by: dsa80 | October 3, 2008 2:07 AM | Report abuse

Are you even fooling yourself? McCain (eventually) ran back to Washington to show "leadership" on behalf of the bill, and it was defeated because two-thirds of representatives FROM THE PARTY BUSH AND MCCAIN LEAD voted against it.

Posted by: light_bearer | October 3, 2008 1:46 AM | Report abuse

i think you're trying to fool us
the democrats have the majority in the house if they wanted that bill to pass it would pass and you still didn't answer by question.... why did obama not show LEADERSHIP and get his southside chicago buddies to vote for it ? cause he's all talk no action

Posted by: wcwinc | October 3, 2008 2:07 AM | Report abuse

"Palin holding her own on policy matters." You've got to be kidding. Her answers were typically nothing but very general, canned platitudes and talking point -- pablum, in other words. And sometimes they were pablum that was not even responsive to the question asked. This is the second or third time in recent posts where Cillizza's analysis has been way off the mark in favor of McCain. I'm starting to question his competence as a political analyst.

Posted by: uh_huhh | October 3, 2008 2:06 AM | Report abuse

Don't give Palin even that much credit. Reading is not the same as debating.
I don't think Palen is capable of meaningful independent thought. You could clearly see that Palin was reading her answer from the cheat sheet while Biden was talking. Palen’s mouth was moving but the words were scripted by her handlers.

Posted by: jef1000 | October 3, 2008 2:00 AM | Report abuse

I DON'T WANT TO BE WINKED AT BY ANYONE IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT.

Other than that - Sarah did Ok - given that she is held to the lower standard. He's informed with facts at his finger-tips. She's got no record to either attack or point to.

If she does take another question before election day - I'd like to know more about this Vice-Presidential / Constitution thing she has in mind. Swapping Cheney for a pit-bull-with-lipstick is probably not what the electorate has in mind.

Posted by: DonJasper | October 3, 2008 1:57 AM | Report abuse

MSNBC is so biased Keith Obamaman enough said.

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 1:11 AM |


Where did you learn to write so well? Also,
Fox News and Sean Hammity,,,enough said!

And let's not forget criminal Karl Rove.OK!

Posted by: jime2000 | October 3, 2008 1:57 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: wpost4112 | October 3, 2008 1:55 AM | Report abuse

Gwen Ifill is a wonderful reporter, but there were too many softballs and too little time for answers. Palin never had to stray from a prepared talking point and Biden didn't get a better opportunity to portray his experience and gravitas. I think Palin got away with too many of the short answers and did well with her talking points. Biden wins.

Posted by: eaglepeak | October 3, 2008 1:51 AM | Report abuse

"she thumbs her nose at education"

She don't need no education.
She don't need no thought control.
Hey! You! Liberals!
Leave that girl alone!

Posted by: drgrepper | October 3, 2008 1:50 AM | Report abuse

Palin 'sevened out' for craps shooting McCain. God knows she regurgitated all the bullet points with which the campaign aides filled her head, but Mccain/Palin /'08 is dead.

Posted by: sperrico | October 3, 2008 1:50 AM | Report abuse

Hey Sarah. I have a special needs child, too (cerebral palsy). I could use some help with his health care. You'll understand soon enough. That's why I'm not voting for McCain, don't-cha-know.

Posted by: zakany | October 3, 2008 1:47 AM | Report abuse

Granted that La Sarah did speak in, like, ah, complete sentences most of the time -- but she rarely answered the questions posed to her. And the moderator failed, most of the time, to ask the question again when Palin failed to answer.

If any of us answered a question from our bosses like that, we'd be fired.

I think she has a promising future on the 700 Club or the Home Shopping Network, or perhaps in timeshare sales.

Posted by: Riddim | October 3, 2008 1:46 AM | Report abuse

on the bailout bill in the house why did rush and jackson jr. big buddies of obama vote no when obama was supporting the bailout couldn't he CHANGE their mind ?? if he can't change his supporters vote says to me his change is just that same old b.s. we get all the time for political hacks.
Posted by: wcwinc | October 3, 2008 1:24 AM

Are you even fooling yourself? McCain (eventually) ran back to Washington to show "leadership" on behalf of the bill, and it was defeated because two-thirds of representatives FROM THE PARTY BUSH AND MCCAIN LEAD voted against it.

Posted by: light_bearer | October 3, 2008 1:46 AM | Report abuse

Palin's bogus Sudan claim:

She was asked (by Sens Brownback and Durbin) to divest from Sudan while she was still governor-elect. It took 16 months for her support the legislation.

http://swingstateofmind.com/?p=663

Posted by: Maassive | October 3, 2008 1:44 AM | Report abuse

Biden was fantastic. Palin was really good; I like her a lot, as I did after the convention. But Biden gave as good a performance as I can recall anyone giving in a debate: responsive to questions, knowledgeable, nimble, calm, intelligent.

I hate when anyone uses a personal tragedy to score points. I hate when McCain remembers too eagerly his POW years, and I was hating when Biden mentioned his family tragedy. But his choking up was authentic, and moving, and made me believe he had raised the matter spontaneously and not as a planned bid for sympathy.

Biden's "Most of all, God bless our troops," as his concluding line, did seem to be a deliberate grab for points in patriotism and military credibility, like John Kerry's "Reporting for duty" line. But with Biden's son, like Palin's, shipping off to war, the sentiment again seemed sincere.

Posted by: pundito | October 3, 2008 1:42 AM | Report abuse

Palin did nothing for McCain.

Biden did much for Obama...when folks worry about Barack's experience and race, they will think of the very experienced and white Biden and will no longer worry about voting for them.

Palin will be President in 12-16 years. And the American experiment will have ended. America will thrive under her rule, but the Constitution will be just a piece of paper. Economy will trump freedom.

Enjoy it while you can.

Posted by: wpost4112 | October 3, 2008 1:41 AM | Report abuse

Personally, as a woman, mother, previous military wife, and human being....Sarah Palin embarrasses me as an American. She's flippant, she thumbs her nose at education, and generally quite smarmy and slimy. I don't buy into the little old "folksy" crap she trotted onto the stage. I want substance. I want policy. I also want civility. Who the hell does she think she is bringing up Joe's family? If that had been him, her minions would be screaming BLOODY MURDER right now.
I could debate Ms. Palin in Iowa if she wants to really get down home and personal. I don't believe her. She's not a pit bull, she's W. in a dress.

Posted by: SYWanda | October 3, 2008 1:37 AM | Report abuse

I blame the media for not pointing out the obvious--Palin is not VP material. She is often incoherent. Ifill let her get away with saying anything she wanted.

Can you imagine how vicious the media would be if the Democrats had dared nominate someone so unqualified?

Posted by: scientist1 | October 3, 2008 1:31 AM | Report abuse

Ifel was too intimidated by the criticism of her writing a book with a chapter in it about Obama to ever point out that Palin was just ignoring questions and parroting unrelated slogans.

Biden won by a large margin on any objective measurement. Only because of Palin's recent dreadful interviews that had caused some conservatives to call for her to resign from the campaign is there any way to say she did well. ONLY in comparison to her recent self!

Biden displayed knowledge, experience and judgment far beyond anything Palin could muster and he did it w/o insulting in any way his intellectually challenged opponent.

And meanwhile, Grandpa folded up and conceded Michigan's 17 electoral votes! Right now, McCain leads in the polls in only two battleground states (MO and IN) and there by less than 2%. In all others, Obama is pulling ahead by larger margins every day. Pennsylvania is farther out of reach for McCain than Michigan. No amount of golly gees or you betchas from Carribou Barbie could change that trend. McCain needed Biden to slip big time and for Palin to shine. Neither one happened tonight -- Obama should pull even more ahead in the next few days.

Posted by: dolph924 | October 3, 2008 1:30 AM | Report abuse

wcwinc you have it right!

Posted by: sagedutch | October 3, 2008 1:26 AM | Report abuse

Palin was all style, regurgitated talking points and oft-heard statements from the campaign trail [a la Barack's "naivete" or "we're mavericks and we're gonna reform.. etc." She never really answered a question. She or was able to go in-depth about anything she was asked about.

Biden was all substance. He showed that he has a thorough comprehension of the issues that face our world today and that he will, in effect, help govern our nation with that knowledge and understanding.

The truth is, Palin did not have any major gaffes or Katie Couric moments. Biden didn't have any gaffes either.

But what this displayed to me, as the Post's own EJ Dionne Jr said:

"The core issue, of course, is the contrast between how Obama and McCain chose their running mates. Say what you will about Joe Biden -- and last night, he was far from being either the gaffe machine or the windbag so many predicted would appear on stage -- no one loses sleep at the idea of his being in the Oval Office. Obama picked a vice president more likely to help him govern the country than win the chance to do so."

Posted by: LuisThompson | October 3, 2008 1:25 AM | Report abuse

talk about the emperor having no clothes--why can't the media admit that this woman is DUMB. She is clearly unready to be vp. Can you imagine how vicious the media would be if she were a Democrat? Why can't anyone in the media say how embarrassing this performance really was?

Posted by: scientist1 | October 3, 2008 1:25 AM | Report abuse

you people don't get it ....
probably cause you're all in the tank
for obama. yes we have problems in the usa but sarah is proud to be an AMERICAN and she shows it. obama apologizes for america and michelle has never been proud of usa until she was called about it! it's the most glaring difference to me. sarah says american's know how to change and she has shown she knows how to make change happen. on the bailout bill in the house why did rush and jackson jr. big buddies of obama vote no when obama was supporting the bailout couldn't he CHANGE their mind ?? if he can't change his supporters vote says to me his change is just that same old b.s. we get all the time for political hacks.

Posted by: wcwinc | October 3, 2008 1:24 AM | Report abuse

She was wise to pay very little attention to questions she felt uncomfortable with.

She was very good at going back to the topic of energy, over and over again, a topic she feels she does know something about.

She's folksy.

She's apparently a good soccer mom.

And she has that cute little wink.

I like her.

Posted by: kcooper35 | October 3, 2008 1:24 AM | Report abuse

That Governor Palin was able to achieve a modicum of coherence at the cost of relevance is nothing to be praised.

Do you think that as president you have the luxury of switching to another subject on which you have memorized talking points?

Posted by: ChrisRestonVA | October 3, 2008 1:23 AM | Report abuse

Oh, come on people. Tossing insults at one or the other of the candidates (in these comments, mostly, but not all, at Palin) is hardly the sort of intelligent commentary that Fixistas are capable of. Let's step it up. Let's be better than those other blogs. :)

Biden did just fine, accomplishing everything that was expected of him. But nobody was really tuning in to see him. Palin vastly exceeded expectations (which were, after the Couric interviews, pretty low). Both accomplished what they "needed to do"; Cillizza's comments were pretty accurate.

I think the stakes were so much higher for Palin, though, that her accomplishment was more important to her campaign than Biden's was to his. Obama's campaign would have survived a bad night by Biden. Not so for McCain/Palin. If she had been weak, it would have been all over. In other words, what Palin "needed to do" was a lot more than Biden did. Both achieved their objectives, but hers was a more vital objective than his. Because of that, if there is any movement in the polls after tonight, I expect it to be in McCain's favor. Over the last few days I was starting to think this race was over and Obama could rest easy. I see that I was wrong. Obama still has the overall advantage, but he cannot let up at all.

Posted by: acasilaco | October 3, 2008 1:22 AM | Report abuse

Palin had no plan. Did she say a single concrete thing she and McCain was actually going to do to change the economy, do that reform she talked so much about? No. She did not. She had no plan to get us out of Iraq. She is all talk. No substance. Where's the plan? I heard no plan. Biden had it right. McCain and Palin are mavericks in name only. They will cut taxes, but not say that their tax cuts go to the rich not us regular folks. They will cut spending but not say what spending they will cut. Winks and grins and empty talks of change will not lead this country forward.

Posted by: LW22 | October 3, 2008 1:21 AM | Report abuse

For some issue-based numeric rating of the debate, see http://unfuse.com/decisions/75-Palin-vs-Biden-VP-Debate/finalize Personally, I think Biden just nudged ahead but fact that Silly Sarah showed up and lasted till the end makes it an exceeded expectations rating

Posted by: jaunty-jalopy | October 3, 2008 1:20 AM | Report abuse

I was disappointed that Ifill did not attempt to control the Q&A and did not follow-up.

What, exactly, was SHP reading all evening?

Undecideds apparently favored JB [CBS] and the net result of this debate is that the big news of yesterday was McC pulling out of MI and the big news today will be the vote in Congress.

VP Debate as blip?

Posted by: mark_in_austin | October 3, 2008 1:19 AM | Report abuse

Andrew Sullivan wrote today that Ahmidineajad (SP?) has had more face to face actual press conferences in America than has Sarah Palin: 1 to 0. What does this tell you? A president must be ready and able to answer any and all questions, folks, even with a lie or a put-off answer. Do you you prefer a dictatorship? Sometimes I think Americans who don't know their or anyone else's history think that's a fun idea.

Posted by: hrayovac | October 3, 2008 1:17 AM | Report abuse

Quote “As an Australian watching from here in Oz...Palin was a wind up doll, memorising cliches and never answered a question put to her....surely most of you Yanks can see through both McCains and Palins rubbish...What I ask myself is how does an air-head like her get a chance to be VP of the USA....and how can so mnay people fall for it.....wake up America...please" Unquote
Posted by: rodsimpson |October 3, 2008 12:58 AM

It’s called democracy Rod, just like you have a babbling travelling salesman like Kevin Rudd running yours. But every few years when real character and performance is discovered the people turn things around.

Posted by: KingofCool | October 3, 2008 1:13 AM | Report abuse

A wink and a smile would work well in normal times. But, I am afraid it might not be enough now to sell John McCain these days. As a matter of fact I think she would find it hard even to sell soap nowadays. But, she is surely a good example of what positive thinking for someone who does not think can dah fahr yah.

Posted by: RegisUrgel | October 3, 2008 1:12 AM | Report abuse

MSNBC is so biased Keith Obamaman enough said.

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 1:11 AM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin clearly does not belong on the national stage. Yes, she may be cute or perky or passably smart. But none of those characteristics qualify her for our nation's presidency (which, of course, is the gauge for a vice president's qualifications). I can see that the GOP apologists might be relieved she did as well as she did, but how in the world could they honestly believe she is ready to be president!

Posted by: Byron5 | October 3, 2008 1:08 AM | Report abuse

Gwen Ifills performance was weak and ineffectual as moderator. Her questions were vague and too general. She had no control of the debate and because of this it ceased to be a debate. Palin told her this to her face.
Palin merely went right down the list of her talking points and after a while Biden joined her.

Posted by: seemstome | October 3, 2008 1:06 AM | Report abuse

"Folks,,I remember "JOE" from the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas fiasco. Joe voted for Clarence in the final count and I have not forgave him for that. But he came up ACES tonight!"

Fact check: Biden voted against the Clarence Thomas nomination.

Posted by: samrosenbaum | October 3, 2008 1:06 AM | Report abuse

This site might as well be the daily kos... it could not be any more vitriolic and out of touch!

Posted by: sagedutch | October 3, 2008 1:05 AM | Report abuse

harbinder28 MSNBC, right?

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 1:05 AM | Report abuse

I Love Joe! Sarah Palin did redeem herself by coming in second. Still, Palin came across like a pageant contestent with the head tilts and winks. Sarah's lucky that the expectations (given her recent displays of terrifying ignorance) were so low that by not talking in unfinished sentences and bizzare, incoherent thoughts leading to nothing, she did okay. I'm not voting for McCain, but I've felt sick for Palin after watching the Katie Couric interviews. Funny how at times Sarah's positions are not McCain's and she didn't seem to realize, but hey that's okay. For many reasons I hope that Palin stays far from the presidency. I think that Palin's beautiful newborn son deserves and needs the full attention of his mom way more than America needs Sarah Palin.

Posted by: collette0779 | October 3, 2008 1:04 AM | Report abuse

Seriously Cillizza, what did you get paid to write the nothing post these comments are attached to?
You are a space filler, nothing more. Your opinions are handed down to you and you translate those opinions to text and word in ham-handed fashion. Your lack of willingness to post an opinion of your own about the debate makes it all too clear. I am sure you will be blogging it a tie by tomorrow, or quickly changing the topic all together. The media has an exual share in the blame the neo-cons get for lying this country into the current state.
Palin is an insult to all reasonable, informed and LOYAL Americans

Posted by: Shootingsparks | October 3, 2008 1:04 AM | Report abuse

Hillary supporters who are voting for McBush are a disgrace!

McBush and his Pitbull are the ANTI-THESIS of what Clinton is--- Hillary has completely different views on almost everything! Clinton has fully endorsed Obama and shares the same views as he.

For you all to suddenly vote McBush just to spite the Democrats shows what shallow, fickle, narrow-minded, STUPID people you are who make rash decisions based on EMOTION and not LOGIC--- and you are slapping Clinton in the face.

America is already the butt of all jokes-- how anyone can vote for another 4 years of Bush's failed policies is beyond comprehension!

Posted by: kbuckingham777 | October 3, 2008 1:02 AM | Report abuse

Biden reminded me of a college wrestler who takes down his opponent and lets the opponent get up; takes down the opponent; lets the opponent get up; takes down the opponent; lets the opponent get up; etc, etc.

It was like practice for him -- he talked substance, got his argument against McCain across, and did his job. He was disciplined and methodical.

Posted by: JPRS | October 3, 2008 1:02 AM | Report abuse

Does she think we're that stupid that we can't figure out she was masking her lack of knowledge....

Posted by: charice33 | October 3, 2008 12:54 AM
------------------
Where I come from, we call that a "BullSxxx Artist"... Fortunately, she isn't even very good at that, since most "folks" seem to have picked up on that.

Posted by: michael4 | October 3, 2008 1:02 AM | Report abuse

HAHAAHA Pitbull Palin was a disaster!!

"We're gunna get'cha, by darn dog'gone it!" She sounded a lot like Bush!!! Seriously, this is who Americans want as the 2nd leader of their country?

She couldn't stop regurgitating Republican verbal diarrhea--- such empty words, with no substance.

BIDEN SPOKE ABOUT THE ISSUES and time and time again had to correct her lies and fabrications.

VOTE OBAMA

Posted by: kbuckingham777 | October 3, 2008 1:00 AM | Report abuse

HOW MAVERICKITY......THE VP DEBATE PROVED PALIN SHOULD HAVE A LAP DANCER SEGMENT ON THE OREILLY FACTOR/FOX NOISE SCRIPTED GOP MCCAIN INFOMERCIAL. SHE'S A CUTE PERSONALITY, THOROUGHLY UNQUALIFIED TO BE VP OF HER OWN MIND, LET ALONE, THE LARGEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. PALINIMBLE BRAIN IS THE GOP'S WORST JOKE & THE BEST EXAMPLE OF MCINSANE'S JUDGMENT. SCARY! LOVED HER COMMENTS ABOUT EXPANDING THE POWERS OF THE VICE PRESIDENCY AND ANNOUNCING HER COMMITMENT NOT TO ANSWER GWEN IFII'S OR ANY OF THE MEDIA'S QUESTIONS AS ASKED, ONLY RECITING MCSAME TALKING POINTS, LIKE A KID SHOUTING/SPELLING THE LETTERS OF A WORD IN A GRADE SCHOOL SPELLING B. HORRIFIC! HER TALKING POINTS WERE GIMMICKRY WITH A WHINNY MEANNESS. WILL SHE BE DESIGNING/DECORATING THE USA-ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN-JERUSALEM EMBASSY WITH A MOOSE LODGE MOTIF IN MIND? WERE HER FOLKSY-SIX-PACK BURPS, VOMITED FOR VICTORY, SORT OF LIKE THE MCMANIAC/MOOSEMOMMA DEFINITION OF VICTORY IN IRAQ, MY FRIENDS?

Posted by: wyattobamanation | October 3, 2008 12:59 AM | Report abuse

BIDEN SMOKED HER!!!

The best part was how Biden craftilly cornered Pitbull Palin regarding her views on same-sex couples... she admitted supporting their rights and that the two tickets didn't differ on that issue--- Hmmm...I think some right-wing conservative religious zealots are not going to be too happy...

Posted by: kbuckingham777 | October 3, 2008 12:59 AM | Report abuse

One can only hope that the posters here do not represent the feeling of most voters. If it does, we might as well start studying western European history of the past 2+ decades to get a taste of the new life we will have in this country. Consistently high unemployment, sluggish to non-existent GDP growth, ever larger role of government, overall malaise, ... I can certainly see why the Obama/Biden supporters are so thrilled by the likely outcome of this election.

Biden was right about one thing tonight -- this is the most important election in most of our lifetimes. The problem, of course, is that the ideals espoused by the dem ticket are time tested to fail and truly move us closer (to the economic abyss of socialistic leaning or worse policies) to others in the world.

Posted by: sagedutch | October 3, 2008 12:59 AM | Report abuse

As an Australian watching from here in Oz...Palin was a wind up doll, memorising cliches and never answered a question put to her....surely most of you Yanks can see through both McCains and Palins rubbish...What I ask myself is how does an air-head like her get a chance to be VP of the USA....and how can so mnay people fall for it.....wake up America...please

Posted by: rodsimpson | October 3, 2008 12:58 AM | Report abuse

Overall I found the debate more civil and cordial, I was expecting a sarcastic Palin and a condescending Biden, but both we nice

What disappoints me about both candidates that neither of them truly understand the anger people feel about the bailout or the economy.

Palin folksy style reminded me of Bush and I can hardly stomach it I don't know if I could hear her for very long.

Biden said he understands, but his change in the bankruptcy law proves he doesn't. We should not be making bankruptcy any easier thats one of the reason we are in this mess.

The moderator she should have asked how can they convince Americans that the bailout is in their best interest?

Posted by: ricochicago | October 3, 2008 12:58 AM | Report abuse

Palin is so unquestionably unqualified after the debate. She reminds me again and again of Bush.

All she did was to act, acting if she is talking, acting if she could communicate. If you just look at her, you would think she is trying to communicate but if you listen to her words. She is not answering. She is repeating the same thing for every answer. She could not talk or think on her own. She treats Americans like idiots. She flirts with the audience with that strange blinking all the time. All she tried to do was attacking Obama with no evidence. We Americans deserve better than this! As a God-loving voter, I hope Christians are not fooled by her or McCain. Christians I know never liked McCain. This is the most challenging time in our history. We cannot vote for McCain-Palin.

Biden clearly has shown he is much more ready than Palin. He cares about middle class and it shows in his record. He has the leadership and substance while Palin only looks good and talks good. Obama makes the right decision to choose Biden and that shows his good judgment. For that, they won my vote.

Posted by: ahua49 | October 3, 2008 12:57 AM | Report abuse

Well, she delivered her memorized bits in complete sentences, so she exceeded expectations.

Too bad that the bar was so low. I'm not interested in a team of folksy mavericks careening around with my government anymore. I'd rather have deliberative, educated, thoughtful leaders this time around. Thanks.

Posted by: auntiemare | October 3, 2008 12:57 AM | Report abuse

Bullwinkle has such disdain for facts and figures also for government intrusion.

So why does Alaska pay each citizen of the state 32 hundred dollars a year. Why is Alaska first in pork projects on a per capita basis.
That's Socialism on steroids but Sarah says she wants government to get out of the way.

Oil revenue AND lower 48 states tax money.
Alaska has it's cake and eats it too.

How about giving that earmark tax money back Palin? Your citizens didn't pay it.

Posted by: seemstome | October 3, 2008 12:56 AM | Report abuse

Two points:
1. No one seems to have noticed Palin said she and McCain both believe in America's exceptionalism. America is different from every other nation, has a special role to play in the world, is chosen by God to fulfill his plans -- this is what exceptionalism usually implies. I hope reporters explore what McCain and Palin mean by this.

2. Palin said something like "we need to 'ramp up' education." I believe she lost every teacher in America with that one. I've been ramped up enough, thank you, by NCLB, and think it needs to be taken down a notch.

Posted by: NMReader | October 3, 2008 12:56 AM | Report abuse

I was disappointed that the moderator didn't ask about either creationism or abortion after incest/rape. Another question might have been about McCain's refusal to vote for an MLK holiday. Or Biden's plagiarism problem. She asked such softball questions, no wonder Palin did well. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't think there were any tough questions asked.

Posted by: gromaine3 | October 3, 2008 12:55 AM | Report abuse

Okay, so what was the point of Palin showing up to debate if she wasn't going to answer the questions? Does she think we're that stupid that we can't figure out she was masking her lack of knowledge on anything by sticking to her talking points that someone wrote out for her.

Posted by: charice33 | October 3, 2008 12:54 AM | Report abuse

Eight years ago the question was "Who would you rather have a beer with?" Unfortunately, that is how many people voted. Most people would rather have a beer with Palin...but drinking and driving the country don't mix...as President Bush proved. Biden is capable of running the country if he had to...someone needs to confiscate Palin's keys.

Posted by: prairie7 | October 3, 2008 12:54 AM | Report abuse

I've said it before and I'll say it again...Sarah Palin and John McCain are nothing but two HOME-SHOPPING NETWORK SHOW HOSTS!

On home-shopping network shows, the hosts get to speak "directly to the audience" by staring right into the camera lens like they're best friends with the person watching at home. And everything they say are unchallenged stock statments about how their product is "for the good of the person at home." But guess what?...Home-shopping network show hosts only care about keeping their jobs and getting their paychecks for their OWN bank accounts, and Sarah Palin & John McCain are nothing but shysters who sound as such because they have no choice but to duck the truth about who they really are: Wealthy money-misers who'd rather die than see a cent of their savings go to anyone outside their family.

DON'T BELIEVE THE LIES THAT THEY CARE ABOUT THE MIDDLE CLASS! PALIN & MCCAIN = SELF-SERVING HOME-SHOPPING NETWORK SHOW HOSTS!!!

Posted by: dhk629 | October 3, 2008 12:53 AM | Report abuse

tellthetruth01 It is not worse than getting your presidents mixed up or the depression era having having a little invention called T.V. Biden is a the Moron.

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 12:39 AM
------------------------------------------
I wasn't faulting Palin for getting her generals (or even the 21st vs. the 19th centuries) confused.

The point I was making was that her claim--that Gen. McKiernan never said a "surge" in Afghanistan wasn't his preference--is flat-out wrong. Period. Given her proclivity for citing the ideas held by "patriotic" generals, she should know that one.

McKiernan said it today. Go look it up. That's my point.

Posted by: tellthetruth01 | October 3, 2008 12:53 AM | Report abuse

So Palin made no major mistakes, talked and looked folksy--and that qualifies her to be VP?? My 7 year old grandson could accomplish that on any given day. She said nothing tonight to convince me that she is knowledgable enough to govern a country. She regurgitated talking points randomly and repeatedly, she made her own debate rules, and she smiled 'cutely.' I did not hear her respond to any question from the moderator or comments from Biden, directly, that seemed genuine or spontaneous. She is not ready for the big stage.

Posted by: alyd69 | October 3, 2008 12:53 AM | Report abuse

"As a still undecided Independent..."
-------------------------

Please refer to yourself correctly, as in

"As a complete moron who doesn't have the foggiest idea what I believe or don't believe and have zero principles upon which to base my life and opinions..."

Posted by: michael4 | October 3, 2008 12:52 AM | Report abuse

I disagree that Palin came across as "decidedly likeable and down-to-earth." She came across to me as phony and stiff and choreographed and heavily-coached. I'm very biased, but she did not at all come across as *real* to me. Biden came across to me as much more honest and straight-forward - even when I was screaming about what a hypocrite he is. But, I am usually mystified by my fellow U.S.ers perceptions of things, so my impression probably doesn't mean much as far as the bigger picture is concerned.

I think Biden was the clear winner. Biden came across as a very competent rock, which I think people are longing for right now. Pre-economic crisis, folks might have been willing to go for a crazy maverick route, but people are scared now - we want strength and confidence, not ditzy inexperience. I was disappointed by the debate. I don't usually waste my time watching this stuff. I only watched for the entertainment factor of watching Palin make a fool of herself yet again. To my disappointment, that did not happen, so I wasted my time. She was obviously heavily coached. But Biden came across as the very competent father-figure we are hoping to shepherd us out of the mess we are in. Palin avoided making a complete fool of herself. As many have said, her bar was very low going into the debate. She survived.

Then again, I fail to understand the attraction some people seem to feel for her, so, what the hell do I know.

Posted by: Peregrine2 | October 3, 2008 12:51 AM | Report abuse

Well, judging from the comments posted here the American people are actually a great deal smarted than the media, certainly more honest observers than closet neo-con Cilizza...

Posted by: Shootingsparks | October 3, 2008 12:50 AM | Report abuse

Palin simply recited a set of talking points, whether or not they had anything to do with the questions she was asked. That's not debating, that's memorization. Obviously, it didn't impress viewers that much, since Biden won both insta-polls and the CNN focus group by significant margins.

Posted by: pjkiger1 | October 3, 2008 12:48 AM | Report abuse

the person that wrote the following is a dumb ass ,because that's the proper way to say Pakistan, the rest of the media says it wrong
ok.

"I know she won the debate because I watched it. And this is confirmed by people attacking her accent. No one attacks Obama's way of saying the word Pakistan "Pahkistan" because it does not matter. Even if it sounds haughty."

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 12:18 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: harbinder28 | October 3, 2008 12:47 AM | Report abuse

Immediately after Palins speech I ran next door broke the headlights in my neighbor's Ford Maverick.

Posted by: seemstome | October 3, 2008 12:33 AM
-----------------------------------

I only watched the debate on the off chance Mrs. Palin would have a wardrobe malfunction and one of her boobs would pop out...after all, thats what "Joe 6 pack" guys like me are all about, and she's all about pleasing Joe 6 Pack...
On your knees Sarah, make yourself useful...

Posted by: Shootingsparks | October 3, 2008 12:35 AM
-----------------------------------

LMAO, you fellers are killin me, dogoneit!

Posted by: michael4 | October 3, 2008 12:46 AM | Report abuse

Palin's pageant training is evident in the way she's learned to answer questions. Nobody in the real world talks or responds like that.
She not only doesn't know but she doesn't know she doesn't know.

Posted by: danielfboone | October 3, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse

gracedelvillar:

You are not a Hillary supporter. Hillary has nothing in coming with Palin except that she is a woman. Nothing else whatsoever!!! So if you equate vote to Palin to a vote for Hillary, you are more ignorant than I could imagine.

Posted by: ASKNOT | October 3, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse

I can talk in circles and say "you betcha" and "gosh darn", does that make me qualified to be president? Absolutely not.

David Brooks was right, when Sarah W. Bush does not know an answer, she confidently does not know the answer.

I fear what would happen to the Republic if she were ever to become president.

Posted by: prongss4 | October 3, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse

Babbleon respectful to who? Us Americans pronounce it just as correctly here in America.

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse

indyvoter? No way... if you were truly independent there is no way you could believe Biden won this hands down. He certainly sounded certain of himself, but half his facts were flat wrong. Do yourself, and the country, a favor and do some research on what he said before jumping to support a ticket that will take us from this financial crisis to financial ruin.


Posted by: sagedutch | October 3, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse

I am at a loss somewhat. Are debate not supposed to answer the issue and points raised or now they call it rants and chants?

Second, looking back at the Bush Administration in order to drive the point home on a potential Mccain administration is 'darn' critical for two reasons:

a. Because both come from the same ideological stand point of the Republican party. That's the overarching principle if u will to track a Mccain adminitration.

b. Even on the finer details of what the Republican principles and philosophy materialize, Mccain is in sync with George Bush, be that tax policy, health, education or foreign policy.

The question then is, how will Mccain be different in his policy orientation or policy-making and administration.

Posted by: sahibzada77 | October 3, 2008 12:44 AM | Report abuse

ANOTHER VICTORY FOR OBAMA/BIDEN
ANOTHER FAILED TEST FOR PALIN

I know debate expectations for Sarah Palin were low, like "2000 Leagues Below the Sea" low, but I expect a little more substance from the person who is running to be one 72 year old heart beat away from the presidency.

Palin offered zero policy differences from the Bush administration. Her reasoning for this, apparently, was that the past is not important.
Palin did not display the ability draw upon her own experience or apply knowledge in her responses. She merely came across as a robot who spouted trained "stock" replies. She simply recited Republican talking points and right wing catch phrases that any Fox News employee could regurgitate on command.

In fact, the only win for the McCain/Palin ticket tonight was having a debate moderator who did not push for specific answers to her questions.
I cannot count the number of times Palin gave a response that had absolutely nothing to do with the question. Sometimes she
even gave an answer that was the opposite of what was asked. For example, when asked to list her "Achilles heel," instead of describing just one single weakness, Palin gave a memorized list of her "strengths." Reminds me of 2004 when Bush said he could not think of any mistake he ever made as president!

On a personal level, I was turned off and, at times, insulted by her shrill tone and twisted disrespectful attacks at Joe Biden. And her transparent attempts at folksiness came across as down right corny. Is this how she would answer the 3am call? "Say it ain't so, Iran has nuclear weapons, well doggone it, don't those folks over there know that I'm a maverick who isn't afraid to give ya some straight talk?"

In short, Sarah Palin failed the "is she ready" test tonight. I find it impossible to imagine her in the White House.

Biden, on the other hand, displayed his mastery of the facts and the real issues facing middle class America. He gave answers that connected with a guy like me, a REAL average Joe. And, I should point out, he was professional enough to actually answer the questions he was asked. After tonight, I can easily and comfortable envision Biden as President of the United States.

Posted by: jgarrisn | October 3, 2008 12:44 AM | Report abuse

As a still undecided Independent, I'll have to say I feel more comfortable with Biden's knowlege on issues. Palin only succeeds as someone I would love to have at parties and community picnics. As far as her understanding of specifics on issues, I'm still left in the dark as to what she really knows. Notice that she did evade many questions, changing the whole subject to sheer rote-learned rambling of attacks ad rhetoric.

This nation is facing serious economic crisis, and we still have two uncompleted wars... spending $10 million per month on Iraq War alone.

Having someone refreshingly charming and attractive is not enough to fit into the VP position. We need a VP with a clear mind and a clear understanding of specifics.

Biden came off at the debate as more than ready to immediately assume the VP position, not Sarah Palin.

Posted by: JanJan08 | October 3, 2008 12:44 AM | Report abuse

LOL. Another deserving repost.
----------------------------
posted by: lhen1

If you believe John McCain was referring to the American workforce when he said the fundamentals of the economy were strong, then you are a complete sucker,
-----------------------------

Obama-Biden 2008

Posted by: ChrisStewart | October 3, 2008 12:43 AM | Report abuse

Biden and Palin Proved the Tickets need switched around.

Most People are saying Biden Won the debate, to participate in a national poll go to http://www.watchdebate.com

Posted by: pastor123 | October 3, 2008 12:43 AM | Report abuse

If you don't like the WP reader's comments don't read it. Nobody is keeping your eyes to the monitor.

Do you actually mean it, when you support Palin, that you prefer somebody that can remember and recite a script for VP even if when left alone - see interviews - is as knowledgeable about the real issues as a fig, compared to a well rounded, articulate, intelligent and rather well informed person? I guess the "real" people have what it takes to govern the world huh? Got to love them. They are right when they say that ignorance is bliss...it also gives you a better high than all the mushrooms of the world.

Posted by: ASKNOT | October 3, 2008 12:43 AM | Report abuse

> No one attacks Obama's way of saying the >word Pakistan "Pahkistan" because it does >not matter. Even if it sounds haughty.

>Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, >2008 12:18 AM | Report abuse

Err does it matter that the "haughty" pronounciation is actually the correct one?

Posted by: lmc5 | October 3, 2008 12:42 AM | Report abuse

tellthetruth01 the point is you attack Palin you should attack Biden. She has is new and on the double standard...

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 12:42 AM | Report abuse

It is apparent Palin is an intellectual light weight. Palin repeated the same tired lines. People in the heartland don't need light weights, we need an intelligent president who is thoughtful and thinks through his ideas. Biden won the debate. Michigan is blue... and the bleeding continues!!!

Posted by: edtechlab | October 3, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

To TheoriginalMoniker1

I was sitting there cringing every time Palin said EYE-RAN, and EYE-RACK, which make the American people sound like idiots and/or condescending when we can't manage to pronounce their country's name properly.

I've never been there, but I have friends from the Middle East, and they pronounce it E-RAHN, and E-RAHK. Sen. Obama respectfully pronouces the word Pakistan correctly.

Posted by: Babbleon | October 3, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: snovey | October 3, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

Palin did great. She will make a great VP.

Hillary supporters are voting for Palin.

America is ready for the first woman president.

PALIN 2008
HILLARY 2012

Posted by: gracedelvillar | October 3, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

I watched it on CNN and even the republican talking heads, except Leslie Sanchez who's an idiot in my opinion wasn't in full praise mode. She did what was expected of her..though someone commented on her constantly going back to Energy..Ifil disappointed me, I thought she could have handled it better, more professional. Glad Biden put her in her place about being a mother, fathers share parenting skills too, she's no wonder woman just because she's a mother which she keeps repeating to get women's votes.
ps I am a 58 year old mother.
OBAMA/BIDEN08

Posted by: sandpiper1 | October 3, 2008 12:40 AM | Report abuse

Palin is not capable of running the country. On one hand, she is proclaiming that she is like any other American and that she is a mother of a disabled child. She failed to mention that she was back at work two days after her child was born and that she is spending all her time on the campaign trail with an infant at home. None of her answers in the debate had substance...much like George W. Bush's answers. People like folksy...but folksy without substance is what got us into this mess in the first place!

Posted by: prairie7 | October 3, 2008 12:40 AM | Report abuse

tellthetruth01 It is not worse than getting your presidents mixed up or the depression era having having a little invention called T.V. Biden is a the Moron.

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 12:39 AM | Report abuse

LOL. Some posts are so great that they deserve a second viewing...
---------------------------------------
Posted by: bc54321

THE DEBATE IN A NUTSHELL

BIDEN: Statistic, Bush, statistic, Obama. I love John, but statistic.

PALIN: Well, golly gosh darn. Ya know? Gosh. Golly gee, energy independence. Darn it.

(Repeat for 90 minutes.)

----------------------------


I would only add Biden's discussion about being a single father, and Palin's parting shot at the press.

Posted by: ChrisStewart | October 3, 2008 12:39 AM | Report abuse

As an independent, I went into the debate still unsure. Not anymore! Joe Biden won the debate hands down. He attacked McCain and stayed on point on foreign policy and economic issues. Also, I don't want to ever hear "nucular" again. Eight years was enough of that. I don't want someone using a cheat sheet when there are tough decisions to be made. Palin kept looking down and could not go beyond the talking points on her sheet, and Biden explained the Obama/Biden positions. I am sold!!!

Posted by: indyvoter | October 3, 2008 12:38 AM | Report abuse

Thank you balto1. I could not have said it better myself. This preposterous deference to right wing crazies and the attempts to appease them by putting on kid gloves when discussing their politicians is disgusting. Have you no pride? Typically, when someone treats you like $*#&, you should respond by digging your feet into the ground, NOT turning into a total pushover wimp. I suppose this sort of behavior says something about the majority of mainstream journalists.

Palin was clearly just reading her notes, which were basically just a list of cliches. She did not even attempt a debate. How could she possibly have held her own? SHE WASN'T EVEN DEBATING! The fact that she can read is not evidence of debating ability. The very notion is absurd. The fault lies partly with the moderator. What's the point in having one if he or she doesn't moderate? When a debater does not debate a point, and answers some question her operatives told her to answer, THE MODERATOR'S JOB IS TO PRESS HER TO ANSWER! Gwen did nothing of the sort. Shame on her too. Republicans are pathetic, shameless liars, and the mainstream media appears to be composed of brainwashed eunuchs. What's happening to this country? Anybody?

Posted by: aia4 | October 3, 2008 12:38 AM | Report abuse

Well Chris, you are a well versed sports fan, so you can appreciate my perspective.

In my view, Palin needed to win big, which she did not do. Too many "beauty pageant bobbles."

Biden just had to keep his eye on the ball (fruit as you said on Twitter) and not get too cute rhetorically...more or less "stay within himself." I feel he did that.

Winner by a decision (not unanimous), Joltin' Joooeeee Biiiddden:)

Posted by: jwallace1 | October 3, 2008 12:38 AM | Report abuse

If you believe John McCain was referring to the American workforce when he said the fundamentals of the economy were strong, then you are a complete sucker,
posted by: lhen1 | October 3, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse
____________________________________

Well then,,,why do we need a "BAILOUT"? Did the American workforce die last week?

Posted by: harried | October 3, 2008 12:26 AM
--------------------------------
Harried, your reply is non-sequitor. We need a "bailout" because, in fact, the "fundamentals", not people, are not "strong".

McCain tried to change the definition of "fundamentals" after-the-fact, in case you didn't know.

Do your homework before you open your face, you're just catching flies.

Posted by: michael4 | October 3, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse

Wow. As is typical of the readership of the WP, most cannot admit positive aspects of the McCain/Palin ticket. Palin did a very good job in this debatePosted by: sagedutch | October 3, 2008 12:33 AM | Report abuse
_______________________________________

Where do you live? I'd like to make a call!

Posted by: harried | October 3, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse

"John McCain is not a maverick on the issues that matter to the middle class". Thank you, Joe, for making that clear. McCain is all myth, no substance (post POW, 35 years ago).

Posted by: DemoDevil | October 3, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse

i thought biden did beautifully...but for a country bumpkin from as far from washington as a person could be in this country, she did, at best, a vaguely adequate job...i felt that she looked like some random housewife thrown behind a podium...she did not look presidential, she did the "folksy" thing really well...but presidential timber? not at all...

Posted by: coastaldude | October 3, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse

This head-bobbing, g-dropping, wide-eyed, winking hockey mom, while not completely embarrassing herself or single-handedly annihilating her running mate's chances of winning with tonight's performance, quite obviously remains a scary simpleton. Her reliance on empty generalities, vapid catch phrases and sound bytes would not have convinced anyone except her mindless, already devoted, ideological followers

In contrast, Biden consistently met her tiresomely empty assertions and distortions with substantive, powerful punches that bordered on knock out for anyone truly listening.

She's cute, has folksiness down pat...but that's is far from reassuring. Ready to be President? No way!

What a contrast!

Posted by: ann_shannon | October 3, 2008 12:36 AM | Report abuse

Your final point, Fix -- that many viewers likely missed Palin's stumble -- may not matter, because the clip is bound to be played into oblivion on various television programs, not to mention Youtube.

Posted by: ShorinBJ | October 3, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse

Apparently, no one in the media thinks the answer to the question of the VP powers was very relevant. Palin says she has 'flexibility' and Biden quotes the very specific powers laid out by the Constitution. Amazing - Dick Cheny with lipstick is right. Why is fundamental misunderstanding of our Constitution never an important issue to those 'scoring' these debates?

On another note, I thought Palin looked amazingly shallow when she just went back to her cheesy talking points after Joe got choked up about his family.

But what do I know...I'm pretty tipsy from taking a drink every time Palin said 'maverick.'

Posted by: jak2 | October 3, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse

I only watched the debate on the off chance Mrs. Palin would have a wardrobe malfunction and one of her boobs would pop out...after all, thats what "Joe 6 pack" guys like me are all about, and she's all about pleasing Joe 6 Pack...
On your knees Sarah, make yourself useful...

Posted by: Shootingsparks | October 3, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse

Biden made me proud to be an American. His ability to articulately address a myriad of complex issues made Palin's well rehearsed sound bites seem that much more shallow. I am disappointed that the majority of commentators after the debate felt Palin's exceeding low expectations to some how equate to her being qualified to serve as VP, or Godforbid president. Geraldine Ferraro should be ashamed for not having the guts to critique another woman. Palin is a modern day version of My Fair Lady. George W layed on the Southern twang when he debated Ann Richards and it seemed the Republic strategists went for the same play with Palin's folksiness. Doggoneit!

Posted by: back2sfo | October 3, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse

First of all, I thought Gwen did a great job.

Second, this debate changed zilch. Both candidates seemed like likable people (which I thought before). I still don't think Sarah Palin could be President. I think she wants to drill in Alaska. I think Biden is a foreign policy wonk that has some ideas that will work and some that won't.

Zero benefit to either side.

------------------------------

I must say that Biden's moment should have empowered parents everywhere. I really could understand where he was coming from.

Posted by: ChrisStewart | October 3, 2008 12:34 AM | Report abuse

BHO was also for a surge in Afghanistan. So Joe Biden for once in his lifetime did pulled the trigger, too bad it hit BHO in the back.

Posted by: peterdaol | October 3, 2008 12:34 AM | Report abuse

Immediately after Palins speech I ran next door broke the headlights in my neighbor's Ford Maverick.

Posted by: seemstome | October 3, 2008 12:33 AM | Report abuse

Wow. As is typical of the readership of the WP, most cannot admit positive aspects of the McCain/Palin ticket. Palin did a very good job in this debate -- frankly she was better than McCain or Obama. Too bad others are so jaded they focus instead on her western dialect, her decision to have a child in her 40s (such as lhen1 wrote - which was a pot shot to say the least) or their belief that she did not answer questions (which is flat wrong - she and Biden both dodged a few, but she did answer questions). I'm clearly a McCain supporter and I think she won the debate. However, kudos too to Biden. He did well. I for one will not take pot shots at the Senator... too bad others must stoop to that level in dealing with Palin -- i guess they simply do not have the intellectual capacity to deal in fact... oh, wait, sorry for the pot shot to the vicious posters among you!

Posted by: sagedutch | October 3, 2008 12:33 AM | Report abuse

A CBS poll is showing that 28% of non-committed voters made up their mind tonight. That in itself is actually pretty amazing. Over 1/4 of uncommitteds made up their mind on a VP debate.

That said...
18% went for Obama-Biden. 10% for McCain-Palin.

Nearly 2-1 for Obama-Biden.

That's a pretty big win for Biden tonight!

Posted by: MNobserver | October 3, 2008 12:32 AM | Report abuse

THE DEBATE IN A NUTSHELL

BIDEN: Statistic, Bush, statistic, Obama. I love John, but statistic.

PALIN: Well, golly gosh darn. Ya know? Gosh. Golly gee, energy independence. Darn it.

(Repeat for 90 minutes.)


Posted by: bc54321 | October 3, 2008 12:31 AM | Report abuse

PALIN IS A TWIT!!! So is SHRUB,,the POTUS!!

LET DRESS A MOOSE..or a CILIZZA!

Posted by: harried | October 3, 2008 12:30 AM | Report abuse

This is truly a sad commentary on America and America journalism that after 8 years of suffering under incompetent President that voters thought were folksy and "in touch" with the common man, that here we are again with a media easily impressed with a candidate who can barely conjugate a verb, but has "folksy" qualities. You wonder if people like Chris Cilliza actually give a damn about this country or their families or is this just about the political sport?

I defy Chris to tell me one coherent thing this woman said all night? She clearly was repeating talking points with no understanding of what she was saying.

Posted by: NMP1 | October 3, 2008 12:30 AM | Report abuse

I was generally impressed with Gov. Palin in that she kept her cool and didn't stumble around too much, and adlibbed confidently about being mayor, mother or governor, when she was outside her box, she turned to her schtick, so her base will have loved it. But she still seems to be unclear on the nature of the the roll of Vice President, but then she's clearly planning to be the next Dick Cheney, revealing her inner Scarey Spice.

She pronounced Ahmadinejad, but didn't know he's not the guy in charge in Iran.

Biden redeemed himself completely with the Moms & Pops when he choked up over the loss of his wife and daughter, and he kept himself under control in not patronizing her.

All in all, since Palin didn't screw up, I think it was more or less a tie, because nobody was expecting her to be competent, and everybody was expecting Biden to say something stupid.

Posted by: Babbleon | October 3, 2008 12:29 AM | Report abuse

Listening to failin Palin, one might think that the answer to every question was some variation on "I love America"?
She kept me on the edge of my seat - I expected a 911 answer at any moment.

I'm sure republicans were enthralled by her brilliant answers - I love america .. 911 .

Posted by: stodayxx | October 3, 2008 12:28 AM | Report abuse

Gwen Ifill was a horrible moderator. She allowed Palin to literally ignore the question completely and just talk about whatever she wanted to. She did an absolute disservice to viewers. That was one of the most poorly moderated debates I've ever seen. I guess she was cowed by the GOP afterall.

Posted by: DianeW18 | October 3, 2008 12:28 AM | Report abuse

The only people who think that Palin won are those who could careless about actual issues and the questions asked... apparently that's quite a few people.

Posted by: case3 | October 3, 2008 12:28 AM | Report abuse

Palin is wrong about "McClellan" (I think she means McKiernan), the U.S. commander in Afghanistan.

He said today--to the Washington Post--that a "surge" won't work there.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/what_mckiernan_really_said.php#more

This must not have been on her bed-time headphone "greatest Republican talking point hits" loop.

Posted by: tellthetruth01 | October 3, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse

Just as I have predicted. Gov. Palin made Joey cried, ha, ha.

Posted by: peterdaol | October 3, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse

How about her comment of not being used to how things are done in Washington? Wake up Sarah, we are not in Kansas, I mean Alaska, anymore!

Posted by: mountainspirits | October 3, 2008 12:26 AM | Report abuse

If you believe John McCain was referring to the American workforce when he said the fundamentals of the economy were strong, then you are a complete sucker,
posted by: lhen1 | October 3, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse
____________________________________

Well then,,,why do we need a "BAILOUT"? Did the American workforce die last week?

Posted by: harried | October 3, 2008 12:26 AM | Report abuse

Hey Geniuses... the reason "Bristol has lost weight while pregnant is because that is NOT Bristol. It is her little sister Willow. Duh...

Posted by: DaveinIllinois | October 3, 2008 12:26 AM | Report abuse

No more interviews no more B.S. from Palin.
She cannot answer direct questions because she just doesn't know anything outside of her talking points.
This is as good as it gets for her. Palin will go no further in the public's mind than the Couric interview
revealed her to be, an ignoramus.

Posted by: seemstome | October 3, 2008 12:26 AM | Report abuse

Palin's amazing claim is that only "common sense" is needed to decide complex questions. She would have us believe that intellect is unnecessary to success in American governance and "Joe six-pack" could achieve world leadership. It's this kind of cynicism that creates a sense that nothing good can be done by government. That champions must destroy government to save it. Such is the root of American bamboozlement by conservatives since Reagan. Shame on her and all who wish us to fall for that bamboozle again.

Posted by: edarden1 | October 3, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

PALIN WON

1) Thanks to Rove's careful tutelage and her memorizing his speeches, she didn't come off as the idiot she is. She reminds me of a corpse who has been rigged and painted to appear "real" exactly once, for a very few minutes.

2) She kept hijacking the agenda to make irrelevant, mindless populist speeches. This made her look like she was taking charge.

3) Biden had been told to smile and nod at Palin. This came off as submissive acquiescence. He even made the mistake of saying that he agrees with her about this and that.

4) Biden talked to fast for the complexity of the streams of numbers he was presenting.

5) Biden didn't use the kind of informal language she did. "Aww, c'mon guys", "all the soccer moms", "Whaddya expect?", "Doggone it", "Say it ain't so, Joe", "I can't wait to work with ya", "Being a mom" etc...

6) Biden appeared to be on the defensive, particularly in the beginning. He spent a lot of time explaining himself and denying things Palin accused him of.

7) Amazingly, the republican candidate was the only one talking about "greed and corruption on wall street".

8) She smiled into the camera continuously; Biden never did.

9) It can't possibly be, but it seems she got MUCH more airtime.

10) She actually managed to get away with posing McCain as someone who will "shake things up in Washington". Biden's attempt near to the end to challenge that was only partially impressive because it lacked Palin's emotional "grab".

11) She talked about things to connect with everyday people: her elementary school, her dad being in the audience, the kids getting extra credit for watching the debate, etc.

12) Biden completely failed to link McCain to Bush. He barely mentioned Bush at all. Nor did he talk about "Republicans", something which undeniably links McCain to Bush and all the problems.

Remember, the only important viewers are the undecided, and ALL the undecided are exceedingly stupid. Palin appealed to them. In particular, she came off as exciting and vivacious and "new". Biden looked just like a defensive Spiro Agnew.

Posted by: FayeKane_HomelessSmartypants | October 3, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

Am I the only one who thought Palin sounded like Velma from Scooby-Doo?

She was lacking class in her canned response to Biden's family story. When someone talks about the death of a wife and daughter, you don't sit there and spout talking points, you show empathy.

Posted by: digtalcomp | October 3, 2008 12:23 AM | Report abuse

1) Why din't she answer the question that was asked? Everybody else comes to a baseball game and she brings a basketball. 2) Why was she whispering?

Posted by: majorteddy | October 3, 2008 12:23 AM | Report abuse

I knew Tim Russert, I worked with Tim Russert, Tim Russert was a friend of mine. Ms. Ifill, you're no Tim Russert.

I did a shot every time I heard Palin say "maverick," and was vomiting and having hallucinations by halfway through.

Posted by: bondjedi | October 3, 2008 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Palin got pregnant in her forties and chose to have a disabled child (her choice) but now uses that label of "special needs" to somehow bolster her resume as if having a special needs child somehow makes her a better candidate to deal with same? I beg to differ. She is exploiting this in a completely unseemly way. Then she say she's passionate about education - so that's why her son enlisted and went to Iraq instead of pursuing higher education? And she exploits that too? And then there's her pregnant daughter- that's another case of failure to educate, yet she exploits the daughter too. I am a mother and hard-working professional. I am completely digusted, not by her children, but by her willingness to parade her children in hopes of getting votes. Look at the character of this parent, and do NOT vote for her. i can tell you I would never fail my children by using them to my own ends. It is obscene.

Posted by: lhen1 | October 3, 2008 12:23 AM | Report abuse


I give it to Joe Biden...he came across as so much more intelligent, knowledge, good grasp of issues. I think someone should remind Sarah Palin that she's 44 year old woman, not a teenager..what's with the doggone it, gotcha etc etc., she sounded like Bush. I was pleased when he spoke out against Cheney's abuse of the constitution when she said as VP, the constitution gives her special rights/priviledges which he disabused her of. Hopefully, the maverick myth will be laid to rest after Biden excoriated McCain's legacy in the senate as anyting but a maverick.

Posted by: sandpiper1 | October 3, 2008 12:23 AM | Report abuse

I know she won the debate because I watched it. And this is confirmed by people attacking her accent. No one attacks Obama's way of saying the word Pakistan "Pahkistan" because it does not matter. Even if it sounds haughty.

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 12:18 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, she won for sure. Don't ya know she was ready with heart-felt beliefs and independent thoughts that she thought for years. Biden - well he's the polished politician isn't he? But you can bet that Palin will be the most fighting on the side of and for Americans that any Vice-president can be.

Posted by: sperrico | October 3, 2008 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Palin was by far the most effective debater of the four candidates in the debates so far. She didn't stutter, she didn't say, "uh," or "you know," or any other gutteral sounds people make who are not sure of what they are saying. She was confident and competent.

Biden was Biden. No more or less. And that's his problem. I don't think he said one thing that was indisputably true. But truth in Washington, unlike Alaska, is a infinitely malleable. The further you get from the people, the more the truth can be manipulated. Palin seemed much more in touch with the truth as she understands it than did Biden. She seemed to genuinely believe what she was saying more than did Biden.

Posted by: theduke89 | October 3, 2008 12:22 AM | Report abuse

Is there another state in the Union besides Alaska? Sarah doesn't seem to think so....!

Posted by: mountainspirits | October 3, 2008 12:22 AM | Report abuse

Palin is not up to the job.

Posted by: RealJakeD | October 3, 2008 12:22 AM | Report abuse

This energy self-sufficiency thing is such a farce. Every new barrel of U.S. oil we drill will go on the world market, where it can get top $$$ dollars. Are oil companies going to become charitable organizations? What a joke?

Posted by: RegisUrgel | October 3, 2008 12:21 AM | Report abuse

Ha, Gov. Palin was even better than your professor BHO. And Joe Biden has a real issue with his emotion.

Posted by: peterdaol | October 3, 2008 12:20 AM | Report abuse

It's NEW-CLEE-AR NOT NEW-KEW-LEAR! Twelve times, no less.

Posted by: rentrug14 | October 3, 2008 12:20 AM | Report abuse

1. Sarah Palin came across as a personable, likable and believable. I think she did well in this department

2. On issues that matter, she sounded like prefessional presenter in a trade show. Well delivered points. But scratch away an inch of the words, there are nothing substantial. I will be very afraid of the 3 AM call to her.

3. Also, confusing to me is that John Mccain and Sarah Palin is saying almost the same things that Barack Obama had been saying all this time. At time, Sarah Palin seemed to be taking Obama's position.

Posted by: kenny4 | October 3, 2008 12:20 AM | Report abuse

I don't want a folksy-informal hockey mom sitting down to negotiate or broke peace treaties with Iran or North Korea or Syria or Sudan! Our country needs a competent, skilled, thoughtful, articulate leader to do this work.

Sarah Palin was confident, but she was not coherent.

Its the very reason Joe Biden will ably serve as President Obama's Vice President.

Posted by: MichaelinSeattle | October 3, 2008 12:19 AM | Report abuse

PALIN IS A TWIT!!!

Posted by: harried | October 3, 2008 12:19 AM | Report abuse

Palin held her own on policy? Cillizza you are shameless..i wonder how you might have tried to spin this as a tie had Palin showed up drunk, as you surely would.
All Palin did during Bidens answers was re-write her cue-cards she rehearsed all week at McNastys chicken ranch, and regurge what Rove and Scheuneman had programmed for her...she surrendered the debate at the outset by conceding she wouldnt be able to answer the questions put to her, so she would be answering her own questions...what a complete mockery of the process her whole candidacy is

Posted by: Shootingsparks | October 3, 2008 12:19 AM | Report abuse

Oh, and the more people hear her irritating voice, the more turned off the became. I watched the bar trends and whenever she was doing her memorized monologue, her voice was flat and like finger nails on a chalk board...and that bar graph just tanked. Didin't anyone else notice this?

Posted by: mibrooks27 | October 3, 2008 12:19 AM | Report abuse

I know she won the debate because I watched it. And this is confirmed by people attacking her accent. No one attacks Obama's way of saying the word Pakistan "Pahkistan" because it does not matter. Even if it sounds haughty.

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 12:18 AM | Report abuse

I'm disgusted that The Fix and the other professional "commentators" give Palin any credit whatsoever.

Are you afraid to tell it like it is, Fix? Palin is dumb as a box of rocks. You know that -- everyone knows that. Just listen to her talk. There's no logic or coherence to her statements - just memorized Republican jibberish. But for some reason, the professional commentators are afraid to say what is obvious because they're afraid of being painted as "liberal." It's this kind of spineless, dishonest reporting that led to eight years of George W. Bush.

Palin dodged questions, repeated meaningless phrases, got the name of the US commander in Afghanistan wrong, and stumbled embarrassingly when asked about nuclear weapons controls. My God, this right-wing nutcase from suburban Anchorage may soon have control of thousands of nuclear weapons!

Meanwhile, Biden was thoughtful, informed and spoke in logal, coherent paragraphs. And he answered the questions.

Any commentator -- and that means you, Fix -- who falls for this spin about her wonderful "folksiness" -- is a big part of the problem in America. And you will be to blame if our great country falls apart. Because you did not have the spine to do your job and tell the truth when the time came for the voters to know the truth.

Shame on you for trying to craft "balance" out of ignorance. Your journalism is in tact, but your soul is lost.


Posted by: balto1 | October 3, 2008 12:18 AM | Report abuse

Palin looked like a cartoon character - one of those overly friendly squirrels to be precise. I watched the two side-by-side monologues ("debate" doesn't describe tonight) on CNN with independent voter "feelings" expressed on a bar graph and, evidently, they felt pretty much the same way. 48 hours from now, the pundits will be blathering about how Biden won the debate without the slightest clue as to why.

Posted by: mibrooks27 | October 3, 2008 12:15 AM | Report abuse

Gwen Ifill was sub-par! She had no follow-ups and pretty much let the two debaters run the show. I was disappointed that there were no questions about homeland security, Supreme Court appointments (not SC cases, which I'm sure Palin is well-versed on by now :), and gun control. I wonder if Ifill backed off because of the GOP-manufactured "controversy" about her potential conflict of interest (due to her upcoming book). Or maybe it was her broken ankle...disappointing moderation overall.

Posted by: we-the-people | October 3, 2008 12:15 AM | Report abuse

Gwen Ifill evidently was intimidated by the pre-debate Republican ruckus about her upcoming book. As a journalist and a moderator she failed to fulfill her obligation as moderator and to keep Governor Palin on topic. She also failed to follow-up with cogent questions to Governor Palin's vague and sometimes inaccurate responses. I regre to say that Ms Ifill failed to do her duty and in so doing she failed America.

Posted by: RepublicanforObama2 | October 3, 2008 12:14 AM | Report abuse

A smart-aleck, sarcastic, condescending woman who won't answer questions, eh? Reminds me of my ex-wife, and why she is my ex-wife. While she thought it was cute, it wasn't at all. Pure narcissism. And not well-informed.

All the winking was disingenuous. Don't wink at me, lady, I don't even know you, and would rather not.

After many weeks, I've decided that I just don't like her. I'd like nothing better than for her and her high school graduate husband to go back to Alaska. If they're so happy with her, they can keep her.

Posted by: michael4 | October 3, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse

I suppose if you believe that the absence of obvious incompetence equals competence, then you should be happy with Palin. She didn't implode, but she certainly didn't win! She was off topic and redundant. She spouted the prepared answers. If you believe John McCain was referring to the American workforce when he said the fundamentals of the economy were strong, then you are a complete sucker, yet she said it with a straight face and gusto. She answered next to nothing directly, while Biden was the essence of courtesy, knowledgeability, and grace. She stunk with ridiculous "folsky" ^%$&***! I cringed when she winked at the camera. If a serious male candidate did that, he would be reviled as a sleaze and a fool. She thinks being "cutesy" is a substitute for being qualified. I might have voted McCain, but not after tonight. ick.

Posted by: lhen1 | October 3, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse

Folks,,I remember "JOE" from the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas fiasco. Joe voted for Clarence in the final count and I have not forgave him for that. But he came up ACES tonight!
AGE HAS KNOWLEDGE!!!
McCain is not the way to go!

Posted by: harried | October 3, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse

Did I heard RIGHT, Palin wants to increase the powers of the VP- continue the Cheney legacy..., and this is the ticket that according to McSame and Palin want to bring CHANGE Washington. Criticizing the Obama campaign for delving in the past, well I guess the Republicans do not believe in remembering the past, but rather they prefer to repeat it with a twist that looks like change...

For someone-Palin who brags of running her government affairs in Alaska above reproach- TRANSPARENTLY... did anyone forgot TROOPER GATE, AND HER PROCLIVITY TO CRONYISM

Posted by: LMM48 | October 3, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse

To debate a tape recorder must be extremely frustrating.
I take my hat off for Sen Biden. I would have walked off the stage after 20 min.

Posted by: winnetoo | October 3, 2008 12:12 AM | Report abuse

Unfortunately for Sarah, her political persona in 2008 reeks of George W in 2000 -- likeable, knows the catch phrases, can speak authentically about real-world things like faith and trials.

After 8 years of W, that's no longer enough. In a political year when Republicans despaired watching Romney, McCain, Guliani, Thompson and Tancredo claim to be the future of the Republican party, Republicans began to despair. Palin comes to them like a drink of cool water after a long hike through the wilderness, but let's be honest -- she has no future in national politics. Not because she's not smart enough, but because who she is too closely resembles who W was. And there is nothing she can do about that.

Posted by: starthom | October 3, 2008 12:11 AM | Report abuse

She proved she's well qualified – for that ESPN gig she always wanted.

As VP? Think Cheney, with all the threats to the Constitution but without the knowledge.

Posted by: FlownOver | October 3, 2008 12:10 AM | Report abuse

OK, I know this shouldn't be an issue but I hope I'm not the only one to notice how much weight Bristol Palin has lost since we last saw her at the Republican convention. She was looking quite thin tonight, strange for someone who is supposedly pregnant - shouldn't she be gaining weight? I understand Sarah Palin's motivation to protect and hide her daughters pregnancy initially before she was part of a presidential campaign but to parade that baby around as hers for the sympathy vote is disgraceful and terribly dishonest... (allegedly)

Posted by: Morgan6 | October 3, 2008 12:10 AM | Report abuse

Dang, Darnit, you betcha.... why does Palin speak like a character from a 60's sitcom, with the warm fuzzies and simplistic view of the world to boot.

Posted by: case3 | October 3, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin keeps talking about being elected governor of a large state as one of her major accomplishments. Of all fifty sitting US governors, she was elected with fewer votes than any other governor (114,697)!!

Posted by: WestbrookMaine | October 3, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

She sounds like a smart, but undereducated (sorry about that), person from a small town. But, yes she is from a small town. And yes, she has a fragmented education. Then she became mayor of a small town (Wasilla). And then she became mayor of a bigger small town (Alaska). Sounds to me like that's just under what Peters calls her "level of incompetence." Do we want to push this further?

Posted by: RegisUrgel | October 3, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

I think "The media is not fooling me" says it best. That and "I'm not a media tool" like the younger voters are saying. Barack Obama in the end is not being helped by such media bias. Americans resent it. MSNBC's Keith Olberman aka. Keith Obamaman is just an example. This guy has the networks backing. No one but Barack Obama would be willing to legitimize "Countdown" and go on that show.

Posted by: TheoriginalMoniker1 | October 3, 2008 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Palin should stop parading her daughter like a tool.

Sad Woman... Sad Family.

Posted by: fzelaya1 | October 3, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

Why is it important for the general population to feel that the guy/gal running to be the leader (and vice-leader) of the free world be "just like them". Have we learned nothing from 8 years of "I-can-have-bbq-with-bubba-so-I-want-him-in-the-white-house" fiasco?

For heavens sake, I sure hope these guys are NOT "just like them" but serious thinkers with top flight intelligence, charisma, judgment and drive.

May we have the collective judgment to save this country from this rush to the top of the idiocracy!

Posted by: TechieGuy | October 3, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

Very dissapointed with the debate format and with Gwen Ifill. Too many times Palin went off the debate issue, and she was allowed to run on. Ifill should have stepped in immediately and forced her to stay on message. Allowing Palin to talk is like turning on Chatty Cathy...just wind her up and she spins. This was not a true debate either. There were back and forth on tactics and strategy, not pursuing a point till completion. It played right in the hands of Sarah Palin.
The American people deserved to really know who she was and we didn't find it out tonight...the format was all wrong . Palin didn't answers questions posed to her. She went off message frequently, and that was an obvious attempt to avoid answer the question . This is also wrong. Palin is still an attractive package, but it's an empty, empty box underneath the shiny foil.

Posted by: anniemargret | October 3, 2008 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Palin did nothing here to sway swing voters. She was scripted, blurry, refused to answer many questions, coming off phony, but talkative with a constant high-pitched jauntiness that is hard to take for 90 minutes strait.

Biden was on fire, never seen him in better form... which was perfect, humble, informed with facts and details... relaying them in crisp, concise, convincing, persuasive easy to "FEEL" sentences.

Overall Performance scores (Scale of 1-100): BIDEN 92 PALIN 59

Posted by: yarbrougharts | October 3, 2008 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Disgusting but true

Posted by: StillwaterMN | October 3, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Walter Cronkite, where are you?
Posted by: trace-sc | October 2, 2008 11:57 PM | Report abuse
_____________________________
Cronkite is DEAD? Look moron..if you think that twit that kept winking into the camera made sense,,,well,,,TWITS UNITE!!

Posted by: harried | October 3, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Palin should stop parading her daughter like a tool.

Sad Woman... Sad Family.

Posted by: fzelaya1 | October 3, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin gets a B+ for passing Boot Camp, however, the only subject she seemed comfortable with was Energy..and Energy and Energy... She wasted a lot of Energy just talking about it. I think she came across as arrogant and disrespectful to both the Commentator and Mr. Biden. I have been a Republican for 30 years. I will be voting as a Democrat for the first time in my life. My vote will go to the Obama-Biden ticket. The McCain-Palin ticket is only about WINNING... it is not about the anything else...

Posted by: toto6 | October 3, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Palin did nothing here to sway swing voters. She was scripted, blurry, refused to answer many questions, coming off phony, but talkative with a constant high-pitched jauntiness that is hard to take for 90 minutes strait.

Biden was on fire, never seen him in better form... which was perfect, humble, informed with facts and details... relaying them in crisp, concise, convincing, persuasive easy to "FEEL" sentences.

Overall Performance scores (Scale of 1-100): BIDEN 92 PALIN 59

Posted by: yarbrougharts | October 3, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

John McCain must think very poorly of women if this is the woman he considers fit to govern by his side. Its an insult to all the intelligent, capable and talented women politicians in the Republican, and there are many. Then again, is it surprising that a man who would ditch his injured wife for a college cheerleader 19 years his junior would pick a former beauty queen and TV anchor for his running mate. Palin likes to be looked at, and McCain likes to have a looker on his arm. Its disgusting, frankly.

Posted by: maq1 | October 3, 2008 12:02 AM | Report abuse

Why is Biden going to do if Russia strikes again? Shed a tear? Moving!

Posted by: trace-sc | October 3, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

Last week, I wouldn't have voted Palin for dog catcher. After tonight's debate, I can say that she is in fact qualified to be a dog catcher. VP? No way in hell.

Posted by: hoos3014 | October 3, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

Palin is simply SAD.

Posted by: fzelaya1 | October 3, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse

So this was the stupid woman who would be trashed by her grandfather?
LOL, the lady has more brains and guts than all the media put together!
Katie Couric and all the Obama media team, as their mentor, can't talk without reading a paper or a teleprompt!
The 'folksy' lady sure can!
Walter Cronkite, where are you?

Posted by: trace-sc | October 2, 2008 11:57 PM | Report abuse

PALIN IS A TWIT!!

Posted by: harried | October 2, 2008 11:57 PM | Report abuse

Halcor knows her very well. She kept everything very general. You can't be that general in "real time" when decisions need to be made in the White House. Whenever she did not have a viable answer she went back to Alaska and what she did in Alaska.

Posted by: kjcross | October 2, 2008 11:56 PM | Report abuse

You know... Palin proved to me that she belongs to VP the Hockey's Mom Society... NOT OUR GOVERNMENT!!!

Honestly...!! Please... all your Republicans, can you say with a straight face that she is capable of running a dog show???

Posted by: fzelaya1 | October 2, 2008 11:56 PM | Report abuse

Palin didn't stumble badly, but she's still not ready for prime time.

Gobama!

Posted by: spotfoul | October 2, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Palin just spewed out memorized facts, frequently in a mechanical fashion. When she didn't understand a questions, she just repeated the same. I get very angry with the "drill baby, drill" garbage. That woman would put oil wells in her front yard if she could make money off of them. Who needs the environment when there is OIL to be found! The tacky winks, the poor grammar, the ignoring of questions was just a turn off. Biden came across as current on issues, especially linking with single parents and those who have experienced hardship. He is more "Joe 6-pack" than Palin.

Posted by: GenuineRisk | October 2, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Good analysis. Altho I thought Gwen did a horrible job of moderating, and her question selection was atrocious. Both candidates need to be nailed when they revert to mindless talking points. Jim Lehrer did a much better job last week.

Posted by: nick4 | October 2, 2008 11:54 PM | Report abuse

The better question is what out of here will be converted into a campaign ad. There were at least two times when Biden tricked Palin into agreeing with a controversial position, like with gay marriage and something on fiscal policy. If you want to know who won, see who appears in attack ads in the next week.

Posted by: jesyke | October 2, 2008 11:54 PM | Report abuse

Biden needs a haircut. Honestly, I like him but my husband feels he looks too much like a "slick car salesman", which is true, he does.

Posted by: StillwaterMN | October 2, 2008 11:54 PM | Report abuse

Palin didn't implode, which is a victory in that she met the low bar set for her. I doubt that she converted any swing voters.
Posted by: bsimon1 | October 2, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse
_____________________________-

Well I don't know how low that bar is anymore! Cilizza is subterrenean!

Posted by: harried | October 2, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Honestly, Palin appeared confident with her memorization of talking points, just like she was at the Republican Convention.

She's not as confident, as we have seen, when she is asked questions, basic questions that she should know, unprepared. She can deliver memorized talking points, but she doesn't really have that independent (Hillary Clinton style) competence as an individual in support on McCain's ticket. Governor/Mayor, she has only shown us how dependent she is to address the public.

That is why I further trust Obama/Biden ticket, with all seriousness. I think Palin has a gorgeous smile, but I felt like she was toying around behind the stand with her facial expressions, and her "doggone its." These debates are serious, not a game, and I felt like Biden was much more serious about these issues. I feel that Palin, with her confidence behind memorization, saw it fit to toy around because of her confidence in memorization. I didn't feel like Palin had much thought process to really reveal to the public, with as much seriousness as Biden.

Obama/Biden '08
Biden won hands down. Palin had a good presence though, even though her efforts amounted to that of her performance of the Republican Convention. Hardly much independence still. We'll see what the rest of America thinks. I will go with the truly competent, sincere ticket on behalf of our people. Solid Obama/Biden

Posted by: Obama2008 | October 2, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Palin stayed on Republican talking points. She studied for a test and she passed with a "C". I say a "C" because many of the questions she did not answer, she just reverted back to talking points and when she didn't do that, she criticized the media to fill up space. I always knew she would be good at being flip with the lip, but there just wasn't enough substance. I am an independent voter and I really wasn't moved with the whole folksy act. I am a regular person who works a blue collar job and I just don't want anyone speaking on behalf of myself or America that is so common.

Posted by: kjcross | October 2, 2008 11:50 PM | Report abuse

Palin dutifully recited some of her talking points, and changed the subject or refused to answer questions when they didn't fit. For that she gets credit. But can anyone say with a straight face that she won the debate, that she passed the "commander in chief" test (in the event something happens to McCain)?

Biden demonstrated his vast policy knowledge as well as his heart. He also showed a masterful sense of diplomacy. He'd be a great VP.

Posted by: kmcnyasha | October 2, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse

Of course Biden won and so he should have.

If he hadn’t it would be the same as a college astronomy professor losing a debate with a first year student on big bang theory. So the universe will not come to an end.

But you must remember this - one day soon the professor may have dementia and the student could turn out top of the class.

What I am saying is that just like Obama, Palin could very well mature in the job and turn out to be a very good Federal politician.

What should be emphasised in these debates more is the difference in ideology and what each party stands for, rather than the blame game and distraction on detail. Palin tried a little here but this could have been hammered home more. Also, she failed to pick up on the Iraq time limit by simply stating that after so much investment you do not leave until you have won. Biden got away with many other unanswered statements.

I was impressed at the end of the debate with the mixture of families when you saw democracy really at work. Something that you will not see in Iran, China, North Korea and many other countries in the third world. What a pity that America cannot go forward in some bipartisan way utilising a mixture of the ideology of both parties.

Posted by: KingofCool | October 2, 2008 11:47 PM | Report abuse

Biden and Palin Proved the Tickets need switched around.

Most People are saying Biden Won the debate, to participate in a national poll go to http://www.watchdebate.com

Posted by: pastor123 | October 2, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse

Why doesn't any one say the truth?!!!! PALIN IS AN IMBECILE!!!!.

Posted by: fzelaya1 | October 2, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse

She says it’s so obvious that she’s a Washington outsider, but veers off topic to talk and says she supports a no-fly zone in Darfur and says that as governor of a state rich in natural resources, she has called for divesment of state funds in Sudan.
______________________________

THE QUESTION WAS.......OH NEVER MIND..I'M DRESSING A MOOSE AND WINKING!!

Posted by: harried | October 2, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Palin didn't implode, which is a victory in that she met the low bar set for her. I doubt that she converted any swing voters.

Posted by: bsimon1 | October 2, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: soonerthought | October 2, 2008 11:41 PM | Report abuse

I think Biden won by a hair, came across as more competent and answered questions a bit more clearly. Palin probably came out further ahead since she didnt live down to expectations. Biden probably got more exposure from this that he hasnt gotten before. End result, typical vp debate, no consequence to the election

Posted by: chet_brewer | October 2, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse

Master of the non-answer, of the glittering generality. A master-debater is Palin.
Andrew Halcor must be laughing at Biden. He called it to a tee. He debated Palin at least 20 times and he knew there was no defense except to ignore her.
She never answers a question. She tells folksy stories not relative to the point.
She attacks then hides behind feminimity.
She lies whenever it suits her and it suits her alot. She even stated that there would be no more press interviews.
In addition, Palin thought that Dick Cheney was acting constitutionally as vice president and if elected she would expand upon his power. Hopefully Palin ssid this
as a result of her ignorance of constitutional law.

One good thing about no more biased press conferences or interviews from the wicked leftist media is this - we won't have to listen to bullwinkle the ignoramus anymore.

Posted by: schmuckduck | October 2, 2008 11:35 PM | Report abuse

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