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Veepstakes: McCain's Pro-Choice Trial Balloon?

John McCain's admission to the Weekly Standard's Steve Hayes ("Shayes" to friends) that he would consider the possibility of choosing a pro-choice running mate is rightly seen as a trial balloon to gauge reaction among conservative base voters to such a move.

"I think that the pro-life position is one of the important aspects or fundamentals of the Republican Party," McCain told Hayes. "And I also feel that -- and I'm not trying to equivocate here -- that Americans want us to work together. You know, [former Pennsylvania Governor] Tom Ridge is one of the great leaders and he happens to be pro-choice. And I don't think that that would necessarily rule Tom Ridge out."

Later he added: "I think it's a fundamental tenet of our party to be pro-life but that does not mean we exclude people from our party that are pro-choice. We just have a -- albeit strong -- but just it's a disagreement. And I think Ridge is a great example of that. Far more so than [New York City Mayor Michael] Bloomberg, because Bloomberg is pro-gay rights, pro, you know, a number of other issues."

It's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the pro-choice position but it's far less sweeping about the need for a pro-life vice president than McCain was during the primary process. (McCain noted during an appearance on the Charlie Rose show during the 2000 campaign, however, that he would not rule out a potential veep because of their position on a single issue, abortion included.)

So, what does it mean?

The simple fact is that at least two of the candidates McCain is thinking very seriously about picking as his second in command -- Ridge and Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) -- who are publicly in favor of abortion rights. A third potential candidate, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, was supportive of abortion rights until a few years ago (although he has now adopted a solidly pro-life position). Among those considered to be McCain's "Final Four" then, only Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty has a consistent public record of opposing abortion.

In opening up the possibility of choosing a pro-choice nominee just a few weeks (or even days) before he is expected to make his vice presidential pick public, McCain is likely testing the waters to see how such a move would be received by the base voters who have long been skeptical about his conservative bona fides.

The Republican base, despite predictions to the contrary, have largely lined up behind McCain since he became the party's de facto nominee in the spring but there isn't a whole lot of love lost between the two groups.

Would McCain picking a pro-choice vice president inflame these critical voters who have largely held their collective tongues to this point? Or will ardently pro-life voters make a pragmatic decision and stay behind McCain under the belief that the Arizona senator would be a far better president for the issues important to them than would Obama?

Watch to see how (and if) the right reacts.

By Chris Cillizza  |  August 13, 2008; 5:45 PM ET
Categories:  Veepstakes  
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Comments

As a Catholic, I can tell you that Romney was a better friend to the Catholic church than any other Governor of MA has ever been. He tried to help the church with not letting gays adopt, with taxes, and didn't condemn the church for the sex scandal. He flew to the Vatican to see Bishop O'Malley made cardinal. Romney was also the only Governor of MA who was not himself Catholic.

Posted by: Moon Mike | August 15, 2008 2:01 AM | Report abuse

McCain will KILL any chances he has of a fragile victory if he chooses a pro-death candidate, no one will care about their qualifications. Look at the abysmal showing of Rudy Giuliani in the primaries, even though he is beloved as "America's Mayor" by many right wingers. McCain staff, if you're reading, DON'T DO IT! YOU WILL LOSE!!!

Posted by: Lynda | August 14, 2008 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Republicans can look at the head to head national poll results all they want. We're watching the state by state polls. They tell a very different story!

Posted by: What we are looking at | August 14, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

McCain has once again shown he will do anything, say anything, take any position to try to get elected. As an Evangelical, I will work to pop this balloon.

No phoney pro-life candidates allowed!

Posted by: Not surprised! | August 14, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

You say "Watch to see how (and if) the right reacts."

The trial balloon intended may be Tom Ridge as such, not McCain's proposed switch from pro life. In any event, if Ridge doesn't get shot down, McCain will know its safe for him to go pro choice, with or without Ridge as his ticket pardner. He sure seems to be going after Independents.

Not everybody with an interest in this issue will reply to your suggestion here in this particular forum, of course. But it doesn't seem like there is anything more than scattered opposition. No real organized opposition. And where else besides McCain can voters opposed to his flip go?

Posted by: Buck TX Ind | August 14, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I'm a Republican who is not excited about John McCain and I am throwing away all of his money solicitation letters (which arrive daily).

If he picks Romney to run as V.P., I will immediately get excited about the team, will put up McCain/Romney signs throughout my community, and will send some money. This is the attitude of my family and friends as well. If McCain wants to win, he needs Mitt Romney, Michigan, Nevada, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and me.

Posted by: Michael Smith | August 14, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

This election is not looking good from any angle.

Check out Obama's stance on infanticide.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59702

Posted by: Gladius | August 14, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Ridge is only pro-choice in the cases of rape, incest, or danger to the health of the mother. From all the survey/polls I've seen that's actually a position that the majority of Americans are comfortable with, even many conservatives. The hard-core pro-life, pro-choice fringes that don't allow for any exceptions are the ones in the minority. For instance, surveys show even many of the most ardent pro-choice people disapprove of partial-birth abortions.

Ridge's experience as governor, congressman, and first head of the Department of Homeland Security are pretty impressive for a VP. His appeal is only enhanced by the fact he is a decorated war veteran, Catholic, and Harvard graduate. And Pennsylvania's 21 electoral votes could easily swing the election. Ridge was elected governor of Pennsylvania with 57% of the vote and is still very popular there.

Posted by: BadgerOne | August 14, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Matters not whom he chooses, another BUSH TERM is not on the menu!

Posted by: andrew | August 14, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse

McCain is caught in a Hobson's choice if he hopes to "maintain his maverick persona" by choosing a pro-choicer.

He will lose his base, pure and simple.

On the other hand he will not be able to pick up any moderate voters if he chooses a strong pro-lifer to mollify his base. Like I said, a Hobson's choice.

Oh, and if he were to pick Lieberman he would lose any chance of getting Dem crossover votes, because Dems are sick of that turncoat.

Posted by: laboo | August 14, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Head fake to the centrists. Attempting to gather credit with nothing more than words. Sure that's what being a professional politicians is all about.

Pro-choice? Why stop there? “I wonder if a non-white female might be a good vice-president. . . “ Next.

Posted by: NoOneImportant | August 14, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

How angry and unstable is John McCain?
Watch "Angry McCain" to find out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWpV8AbOocU

Posted by: Michael J | August 14, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Well, well Republicans having to choose between their two worse fears: a black man or supporter of "baby killing" in the White House. Chickens coming home to roost!

Posted by: Dawn | August 14, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

McCain needs to worry, not about tracking polls, but on getting his base to the polling booth. Anything that turns off the base is just lethal to the campaign. He'll choose Romney.

Posted by: dch | August 14, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

McCain's option of choosing a pro-choice VP weakens his already shaky position as self-professed pro-life candidate. This type of campaign talk may attract a few more independents and some conservative Democrats, but will turn off a lot more of the Republican base.

Posted by: Obama-Junkie | August 14, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Well, I guess someone has made up their mind! Apparently the VP pick for the Dems is going to be announced any moment:
http://tiny.cc/o8ama8ayh08

Posted by: Tom M | August 14, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Way to go McCain! Your openness to selecting a pro-choice VP is exactly the type of stances that will lose you the election.

Although McCain is just teasing the press with his VP talk from selecting Piyush Jindal as a VP to selecting Lieberman as VP. I personally view McCain's openness as positive, but talk of a pro-choice VP or a Lieberman VP slot will help McCain among some Independents and will definitely turn off a large portion of the Republican base.

Posted by: Obama-Junkie | August 14, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

McCain is just toying with the press, giving them some Veepstakes gossip to process for a bit. There is no way that he could pick a pro-choice running mate and keep the party intact.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Posted by: mpp | August 14, 2008 8:01 AM | Report abuse

The old boy may be approaching another birthday getting on up there in his Seventies but you can see he is still pretty spry and nimble. Check out his new stand on abortion.

The latest Pew poll shows that he is doing better than his opponent in holding his base. Neck and neck with Obama now.

Looks like 4 more years.

Posted by: Buck TX Ind | August 14, 2008 5:25 AM | Report abuse

Anonymous at 1:27 AM joins Words and 37th as a Benny impersonator. Hands on hips, s/he says:

"Well!"

Posted by: Bob Hope | August 14, 2008 1:45 AM | Report abuse

The democrats will pick Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania as the vp.

Well.

It is clear the the Electoral Map should govern such a choice and this is the best choice given the landscape of geography and options.

You heard it here first.

McCain is actually in an extremely great position given the geography and options - Romney is perfect on both accounts. Extremely few candidates have the ability to carry two significant states with Michigan and Nevada Romney is perfect. In addition Romney brings an important Economic Resume Strength to the ticket which is ....... words can not describe how it is.

.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 14, 2008 1:27 AM | Report abuse

This is no joke, you guys. This is real. Please read that article. There's some new material at the very end. Read it. And don't be so dismissive; this is happening in America, and you could be next.

VL

Posted by: scrivener | August 14, 2008 1:26 AM | Report abuse

Blarg, Why did you tell Livingston about the DEW?

Posted by: Cyberian | August 14, 2008 1:12 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: BAN RADIATION WEAPONS! | August 14, 2008 12:29 AM | Report abuse

McCAIN THE MAVERICK REDUX: BUSHIE FATIGUE?

McCain has been giving off signs that he's chafing under the yoke of the Bush operatives who have taken over his messaging and advertising.

This trial balloon fits that narrative. It's wise politics. With Obama doing a slow pre-convention deflation -- did you see the latest dead-even battleground state polls? -- McCain is realizing he can maintain his "maverick" persona if he draws independents and disaffected Dems who are put off by Obamanist posturing.

All the more reason for Dems to do some serious re-thinking.

And where was Barack today as Russia resumed its Georgian aggression? Once again, McCain takes command while Obama basks and lazes. Why is he sabotaging himself? This is not a good sign for his prospects -- in the fall, or in Denver.

BUT WILL THE ELECTION EVEN MATTER? Not when government-supported "vigilante injustice" squads are targeting Americans outside of the bounds of the law:
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/get-political-vic-livingston-opinion-expose-state-supported-vigilante-squads-doing-domestic-terrorism


Posted by: scrivener | August 14, 2008 12:20 AM | Report abuse

Add Schwartzenager to any ticket. For McCain, sure he's got liberal credentials, but we've all seen him use serious guns. Although that would have 2 non-native borns on a ticket. For Obama, yeah he's Republican, but so what, it shows bipartisanship. Plus if anything happens, supreme narricism anybody, the Presidency goes to Pelosi.

Posted by: Just Say Yes | August 14, 2008 12:04 AM | Report abuse

That would be it for me. I am solidly conservative and will bite my tongue and vote for Mac only if I like his veep. If he picks a veep that is as liberal as him, I am out. I will not vote for Mac, and try to convince everyone I know to do the same.

Posted by: George | August 14, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Lieberman? ...racists hate jews as much as they do blacks. Lieberman makes no sense.

Posted by: anonymous | August 13, 2008 11:14 PM | Report abuse

I have never worn a flag lapel pin. Does this mean I am a traitor to my country?

Posted by: Steve | August 13, 2008 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Most real Christians are not voting for McGoo anyway. Have you seen the latest poll? Christians are overwhelmingly rejecting McSleaze.
A liar who lied in his book about when he got a marriage license -- taken while still married, a crime -- when he had sex with various women, when he left his first wife, etc is not someone good Christians could EVER vote for and we will not. You see how we are not doing any work for this liar and sleaze.
Once the Post and other stenography rags are forced to print the truth about McLiar's womanizing and his lies -- how about a story about the many times McCain was in the Bahamas with Keating, where he had sex with numerous women? -- that will be the end of this deranged nut-job's crawl.

Posted by: Christians Against McSleaze | August 13, 2008 11:02 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Saladin3 | August 13, 2008 10:44 PM

Amazing, if McCain wins the bloggers here will be catatonic.
Make that reservation now for your nearest mental health professional, that way if Obama goes the way of Gore, Dukakis, Mondale, Kerry then treatment is just hours away, on the other hand if Dems do win it all you can sell that
__________________________________________

Let's Cross that Bridge when we get to it in Nov.'

May the lesser of the Evils Win!

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:53 PM | Report abuse

Before John McCain's tour of duty in Vietnam, he married Carol Shepp, a model from Philadelphia. On his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam in 1967, McCain was shot down and captured.
While he was imprisoned, Carol was in an auto wreck (1969), thrown through her car's windshield and left seriously injured. Despite her injures, she refused to allow her POW husband to be notified about her condition, fearing that such news would not be good for him while he was being held prisoner.

When McCain returned to the United States in 1973 after more than five years as a prisoner of war, he found his wife was a different person. The accident "left her 4 inches shorter and on crutches, and she had gained a good deal of weight."

Yearning to make the grade of admiral, McCain enrolled in the National War College at Fort McNair in Washington, D.C. and underwent physical therapy in order to fly again. The Navy excused his permanent disabilities and reinstated him to flight status, effectively positioning him for promotion.

In his book, The Nightingale's Song, Robert Timberg chronicled McCain's post-Vietnam military assignments and some of his "adulterous" behavior leading to his divorce from Carol and marriage to Cindy Hensley.

Timberg wrote, "in the fall of 1974, McCain was transferred to Jacksonville as the executive officer of Replacement Air Group 174, the long-sought flying billet at last a reality. A few months later, he assumed command of the RAG, which trained pilots and crews for carrier deployments. The assignment was controversial, some calling it favoritism, a sop to the famous son of a famous father and grandfather [both were Navy admirals], since he had not first commanded a squadron, the usual career path."

While Executive Officer and later as Squadron Commander McCain used his authority to arrange frequent flights that allowed him to carouse with subordinates and "engage in extra-marital affairs." Such behavior was a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice rules against adultery and fraternization with subordinates..

Timberg wrote, "Off duty, usually on routine cross-country flights to Yuma and El Centro, John started carousing and running around with women. To make matters worse, some of the women with whom he was linked by rumor were subordinates . . . At the time the rumors were so widespread that, true or not, they became part of McCain's persona, impossible not to take note of."

In early 1977, Admiral Jim Holloway, Chief of Naval Operations promoted McCain to captain and transferred him from his command position "to Washington as the number-two man in the Navy's Senate liaison office. It wasn't long before the "fun loving and irreverent" McCain had turned the liaison office into a "late-afternoon gathering spot where senators and staffers, usually from the Armed Services and Foreign Relations committees, would drop in for a drink and the chance to unwind."

In 1979 at a military reception in Honolulu, McCain met Cindy Hensley, an attractive 25-year-old woman from a very wealthy politically-connected Arizona family. Cindy's father, Jim, founded the Hensley and Company, the nation's third-largest Anheuser-Busch distributor.

McCain described their first meeting, "She was lovely, intelligent and charming, 17 years my junior but poised and confident. I monopolized her attention the entire time, taking care to prevent anyone else from intruding on our conversation. When it came time to leave the party, I persuaded her to join me for drinks at the Royal Hawaiian Hotel. By the evening's end, I was in love."

While still married to Carol, McCain began an adulterous relationship with Cindy. He married Cindy in May 1980 -- just a month after dumping Carol and securing a divorce. The newlyweds honeymooned in Hawaii.

McCain followed his young, millionairess wife back to Arizona where her father helped catapult McCain into politics,

Today, Cindy Hensley McCain is chairwoman of Hensley's board of directors. Hensley and Company financial reports show assets worth a minimum of $28 million for the McCains

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Amazing, if McCain wins the bloggers here will be catatonic.
Make that reservation now for your nearest mental health professional, that way if Obama goes the way of Gore, Dukakis, Mondale, Kerry then treatment is just hours away, on the other hand if Dems do win it all you can sell that spot to us radical haters on the right who will be feeling, well sick.
What is the national anthem for the UN anyway?

Posted by: Saladin3 | August 13, 2008 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Sharon | August 13, 2008 10:32 PM

Obama's affiliations with Malcom X--Louis Farrakahan--Rev. Wright--Wm. Ayers--people who don't respect America, America's flag, and Americans wonder why Obama's first issue that he created himself was to not wear the American Flag Pin! Shows his friends and associates have had an affect on his life, on his thinking, and how he plans to run America!
_________________________________________

When was the last time you checked out McCains affiliations. When was the last time you figured out John McCains lack of character when he left his first wife after she was in a terrible car accident that left her maime and crippled for a younger Cindy McCain.

When was the last time you figured out that John McCain was a part of the "The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s." The five senators, Alan Cranston (D-CA), Dennis DeConcini (D-AZ), John Glenn (D-OH), John McCain (R-AZ), and Donald W. Riegle (D-MI), were accused of improperly aiding Charles H. Keating, Jr., chairman of the failed Lincoln Savings and Loan Association, which was the target of an investigation by the Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB).

When are you going to figure out how UNINFORMED you are when it comes to John McCains background and TRUE Character.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

If he chooses a pro-choice (advocates baby murder) VP, I'm looking for real estate outside the US. I would never vote Obama for many reasons. I'll just have to leave the country I love and that I've served (unlike Obama). It's a shame. One must follow his conscience.

Posted by: Bill | August 13, 2008 10:39 PM | Report abuse

Russia murders? The Born Again Faith Based Pro Life Lying Fascist Nazi Mass Murderer Serial Killer in Chief War Criminal Terrorist did what then?

Search Bush 4th Reich, Prescott Bush, granpa, helped start the 3rd Reich doing huge business with Thyssen and other German companies.

Posted by: Cons Are Morons | August 13, 2008 10:39 PM | Report abuse

If he chooses a pro-choice (advocates baby murder) VP, I'm looking for real estate outside the US. I would never vote Obama for many reasons. I'll just have to leave the country I love and that I've served (unlike Obama). It's a shame. One must follow his conscience.

Posted by: Bill | August 13, 2008 10:37 PM | Report abuse

The government should get out of marriage entirely. Straight or gay, we need good family law to protect children, we need contracts for interdependent relationships. Marriage is an important institution. Rename the legal part something else for EVERYONE. Many GLBT on the site *BisexualMingle c o m* want the same-sex marriage.

Posted by: Cellyta | August 13, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse

The portly, little Warmonger stands for nothing. He can test the waters on whether his VP choice will offend the religious freaks in his Party all he wants. But in the end, a tusami wave of new voters that Barack has energized and inspired will sweep McBush into the dust bin of history, to be remembered only as a pompous, adulterous, corrupt fraud. Good riddance Old Man.

Posted by: shiva7 | August 13, 2008 10:32 PM | Report abuse

America is in a very precarious position! The leaders need to be experienced, rooted and grounded in words and in their actions! Obama brought out his dislike about wearing the America Flag Pin! No one asked him to make this an issue--it was by his CHOICE!
It is by CHOICE that a female has sex and ends up pregnant! The woman's choice to use contreception or not is a CHOICE! If a pregnancy happens, the woman should be responsible for her actions! After all, she had a CHOICE! Now if the woman decides to have an abortion--its a choice! The accountability of that "CHOICE" has to be made to God! If a woman is old enough to have sex, she should be old enough to be responsible for her actions!

Obama's affiliations with Malcom X--Louis Farrakahan--Rev. Wright--Wm. Ayers--people who don't respect America, America's flag, and Americans wonder why Obama's first issue that he created himself was to not wear the American Flag Pin! Shows his friends and associates have had an affect on his life, on his thinking, and how he plans to run America! Sure Obama says he can be diverse in dealing with world leaders because of his background! Obama's dealings with world leaders is better enhanced because he speaks Arabic fluently! Is this the man we want in our White House? Is this the man we want to be over our sons and daughters who are in the military? Is this a man you can trust?

If the Democratic party wanted their party to be back in the White House, then should have backed Hillary Clinton!

I am a Republican who would have voted for Hillary Clinton!

Posted by: Sharon | August 13, 2008 10:32 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:26 PM

I wonder if China is upset about Russia's taking attention away from the Olympics in China.
__________________________________________
You can bet your money on it.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Grace | August 13, 2008 9:46 PMOBAMANATION IS A GREAT BOOK WITH ALL THE FACTS IN ONE REFERENCE AREA.
________________________________________
This book is FULL OF LIES. You need to get your FACTS straight. The author that wrote this book is the same author that SWIFT BOATED John Kerry. Now he is trying to Swift Boat OBAMA.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

McCain picking a pro-choice running mate seems risky. He'd definitely alienate the base; the pick's other qualifications would have to be pretty appealing to the base & independents to counterbalance the pro choice position. I don't see such a candidate existing.

Posted by: bsimon | August 13, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if China is upset about Russia's taking attention away from the Olympics in China.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:26 PM | Report abuse

So what fool is going to vote for McCain because his VP is prolife? LMAO it does highlight McCains pro war stance. If those value voters think it is going to change anything, think again...there won't be enough Repubs in Congress to pass anything.

Posted by: Terry | August 13, 2008 10:26 PM | Report abuse

The (Nearly) $1 Billion Connection: McCain And His Lobbyists’ Clients

Washington, D.C. – Campaign Money Watch, a nonpartisan campaign finance watchdog group, announced today the result of a new analysis of the fees Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) lobbyist bundlers, advisors and staff members have collected from domestic clients over the past decade.

The total? A staggering $930,949,819.

“The McCain campaign relies on big money lobbyists, and they’ll rely on him,” said David Donnelly, director of Campaign Money Watch. “In the ‘you-scratch-my-back, I’ll-scratch-yours’ world of Washington, $931 million gets the special interests the best government money can buy. But just think of the payday these lobbyists might expect in a McCain Administration.”

Campaign Money Watch’s analysis of data provided by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics (http://www.opensecrets.org) also found that employees and Political Action Committees of these lobbyists’ clients have donated $11,750,051 to McCain’s campaigns, a fact that raises its own set of problems, Donnelly said.

“How can John McCain say he’ll reduce the influence of special interests in Washington, when he’s so fully dependent on lobbyists and their clients to finance his campaign?” Donnelly asked. “All candidates need to raise money, but is this exemplary of a candidate who claims he’ll tackle the special interests?”

To highlight the connections between John McCain and his lobbyists, Campaign Money Watch launched a new Web site last Tuesday called McCainsLobbyists.com. The site shows focuses on 40 of the most prolific – some would argue profligate – lobbyists around McCain. It shows how much money their clients have given to McCain, as well as how much money those lobbyists have earned off those clients.

Campaign Money Watch is a project of the nonpartisan Public Campaign Action Fund. The organization works to hold politicians who are against comprehensive campaign finance reform accountable for where they get their political donations.

Posted by: Where are you Military Records, Old Adulterer Songbird Traitor McWarCriminal? | August 13, 2008 10:25 PM | Report abuse

Chillizza to friends. lol

Posted by: Bob | August 13, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

McCain: "In The 21st Century Nations Don't Invade Other Nations"
stumble digg reddit del.ico.us news trust

August 13, 2008 04:46 PM

Speaking to reporters about the situation in Georgia, Sen. John McCain denounced the aggressive posture of Russia by claiming that:"in the 21st century nations don't invade other nations."

It was the type of foreign policy rhetorical blunder that has regularly plagued the McCain campaign and could have diplomatic ripples as well. Certainly the comment was meant in innocence. But for those predisposed to the notion that the U.S. is an increasingly arrogant international actor, the suggestion by a presidential candidate that, in this day and age, countries don't invade one another -- when the U.S. is occupying two foreign nations -- does little to alleviate that negative perception.

There is another, less controversial undertone to McCain's remark. Since the Georgia-Russia hostilities have commenced, parallels have been drawn to U.S. intervention in Iraq. The two scenarios are highly different in all intents and purposes, both due to regional significance and the longstanding territorial disputes. But some still would dispute the idea, as McCain seemed to imply, that America's involvement in Iraq is any less an invasion than Russia's involvement in Georgia.

Later in his press conference, McCain was asked to address how the Georgian crisis -- which has ceded to a tenuous ceasefire -- was amplified on the campaign trail. The presumptive Republican nominee demurred from attempts to get him to engage with Barack Obama.

"This isn't a time for partisanship and sniping between campaigns," he said. "This is about hundreds of thousand of individuals whose lives are being taken... Maybe later on in the campaign let's have a back and forth about whose comments and statements... but now lets devote all our efforts to resolving a situation that is fraught with tragedy."

A subsequent questioner asked McCain whether this non-partisan window applied to Sen. Joseph Lieberman as well, who, at a townhall on Tuesday, suggested that Barack Obama had not always "put his country first." McCain's answer was classically evasive.

"Let me respond by just saying that I think that whatever we think at the moment that we can all reserve that for a future time. And I think that judgments will be made about how we handled this situation and approached the situation in Iraq and how much experience knowledge and background means in selecting who should be the next commander in chief, all I can say is there will be plenty of time for that and we can move forward. "

Posted by: Where are you Military Records, Old Adulterer Songbird Traitor McWarCriminal? | August 13, 2008 10:22 PM | Report abuse

Senator McCain has showed his judgment based on his experience. If we can't help Georgia, they had to find others that can help. Here is what Voice of American reported.

http://voanews.com/english/2008-08-11-voa32.cfm

Georgia Asks China for Help With Russia
By Daniel Schearf
Beijing
11 August 2008

Schearf report - Download (MP3) audio clip
Schearf report - Listen (MP3) audio clip

Georgia has asked China to use its influence to push for a resolution to a territorial flare-up with Russia. Georgian troops have pulled out of the breakaway province of South Ossetia after being overwhelmed by Russian forces. Daniel Schearf reports from Beijing.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:19 PM | Report abuse

The Republican Party has lost its soul.

Posted by: Gary Helding | August 13, 2008 10:18 PM | Report abuse

Joe Lieberman: A pro-choice, pro-gay, Jew.

Yeah, the bigots in the bible belt will just love that ticket.

Posted by: Bob | August 13, 2008 10:18 PM | Report abuse

From the HuffigtonPost,
"The McCain campaign relies on big money lobbyists, and they'll rely on him," said David Donnelly, director of Campaign Money Watch. "In the 'you-scratch-my-back, I'll-scratch-yours' world of Washington, $931 million gets the special interests the best government money can buy. But just think of the payday these lobbyists might expect in a McCain Administration."

Donnelly's group previously launched a website called McCainsLobbyists.com, in which users can track the special interests represented by 40 of John McCain's top fundraisers and advisers.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:17 PM | Report abuse

Whichever party you support, one thing's for certain, the world is filling up RAPIDLY with people. Pro-life, pro-choice, it's kind of a moot argument, people can and will continue to have lots and lots and lots of kids, for which there'll be more and more demand for government support services(read, 'tax increases'), and there'll be the neverending contest for elbow room to go along with that(read 'infill'), and of course the rest of it with energy and food and water and medical services etc. etc. etc. War is, of course, one form of birth control, albeit sort of retroactive, 'after the fact', something that some countries tend to engage in to rid themselves of excess population, can't have the riff-raff out there whittling the farm fields down to the base of the grass stalks like a bunch of marauding sheep, now, and as global and national population numbers continue to rise, we may well see such wars take place within our lifetimes. If you read about some of the countries in Africa, some things have already happened that look like excuses made to 'thin out the herd', there.
At the end of all the brouhaha about abortion, we're still a democracyer, filled with a fairly sizable number of mostly literate and reasoned/reasonable people, who can independently and for themselves evaluate the state of things across the country and around the world, and deciderer for themselves whether or not to have kids, how many kids to have, and so forth. To that end, there's the Internets and the cornucopia of information that it provides regarding the whole entire subject. One thing that'd be of benefit would be for the religious types to take a Big Step Back from their self-appointed role as community 'leaders' and instead try and intelligently add to a common public debate on the issue. 'Go forth, and multiply' just doesn't ring as 100% valid anymore, in this 21st century, maybe something more like, 'go forth, ensure you can personally support your offspring, and increment by one', instead.
China serves as a good case study for this issue, they recognized runaway population growth as a national problem some 30 years ago. But, here in the good ol' US of A, some folks still don't quite 'get it'. And, sometimes, 'help' doesn't, at least not in the larger sense. You hear a lot about this or that charity institution, but ya gotta wonder what the future holds for places like the Philippines with their heavy catholic influence and the 3,4,5 kids per family stuff. It's estimated that some 1-2 billion people around the world already live right on the ragged edge of starvation, and when you hear politicians blathering on about 'growth' in the face of that, ya gotta wonder how honest and ethical they really are, there, at least I wonder about it.
We live in Interesting Times, when resources are already being fought over, on the global scale, and when 6.8 billion people walk the earth, all looking for a job, and something to eat. How's all that going to work out, exactly? McCain wants to sit in the Big Chair, hopefully he's done some personal research so he can develop a coherent position on it...

Posted by: Bert | August 13, 2008 10:16 PM | Report abuse

Do you remember the old TV Western Show, where Chuck Connors is stripped of his badge and gun?

Thats what we democrats will gleefully do to Lieberman in January....strip him of his chairmanship and his ability to attend the party caucus.

Oh, and one more thing..any legislation Joe introduces, goes straight into the circular file.

McCain and Lieberman. Combined age 142!
Yeah, thats a winning ticket.


Posted by: Bob North Smithfield | August 13, 2008 10:14 PM | Report abuse

I am an undecided voter and each candidate's choice of VP is critical this year.

I believe two senators are not as strong a ticket than one senator and one governor.

However, Huckabee and Hillary are out of question. Some people are just not electable.

If the Clintons did the job right after the collapse of USSR, we wouldn't have to deal with an unhappy Russia today.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:13 PM | Report abuse

Governor Ridge's executive experience with economy, health care, administration and especially EDUCATION will enhance Senator McCain's chance of winning in November.
He should invite Putin to his inauguration in January to thank him.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

McCain is harboring on the borderline of senility or dementia. He doesn't even know what side of the fence he is supposed to play on.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Governor Ridge's executive experience with economy, health care, administration and especially EDUCATION will enhance Senator McCain's chance of winning in November.
He should invite Putin to his inauguration in January to thank him.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:08 PM | Report abuse

Bad, bad move.

Posted by: waterfrontproperty | August 13, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

McCain is a Joke!

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Hey Grace,
Shouldn't you be busy writing and sending out those fake rightwing lunitic fringe anti-Obama e-mails, that no one in their right minds believes anyway, instead of wasting your time whining on here tonight?

PUMA
------
Perpetually

Unbalanced

Mental

Arsewipes

I hope McCain gets a pro choice VEEP. Maybe more Reps will vote for him. I am a lifelong Dem voting for McCain because Obama is too sexist, a liar, and too inexperienced to be president.

Posted by: Grace | August 13, 2008 9:46 PM

Posted by: Kay | August 13, 2008 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: "IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE" - or can it? | August 13, 2008 9:59 PM | Report abuse

I get a kick out watching the corporate media schlubs like Chris Cilliza doing everything in their power to prop up Grampy McCain's failing campaign.
Heck, McCain can't even remember his name half the time without having one his Rovebot campaign flunkies remind him. The corporate media has been in bed with the Rethugs ever since the Bush crime family rode into town thanks to the rightwing lunitic fringe supreme court and the corporate media blowhards can't imagine their lives without access to the GOPer cocktail circuit:

What's my name again?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWX5u69hmzY

Posted by: astral99 | August 13, 2008 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Speaking to reporters about the situation in Georgia, Sen. John McCain denounced the aggressive posture of Russia by claiming that:"in the 21st century nations don't invade other nations."

What a Joke!

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

Who cares? He's probably just trying to change the subject from his knee-jerk belicosity regarding Georgia. He has certainly shown himself to be a foreign policy lightweight with this episode.

Posted by: michael4 | August 13, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

OBAMANATION IS A GREAT BOOK WITH ALL THE FACTS IN ONE REFERENCE AREA.

Obama knocked Hillary Clinton out of the primary using John Edwards to capture all the extra superdelegates. Elizabeth never endorsed Obama because they all knew that John Edwards had the baby with Reille Hunter. The truth was going to come out as the Truth about Obama came out in this book.

Obama hates white people. He even called Michael Phelps a glutten. Phelps won the most medals than any person in history.

I hope McCain gets a pro choice VEEP. Maybe more Reps will vote for him. I am a lifelong Dem voting for McCain because Obama is too sexist, a liar, and too inexperienced to be president.

Posted by: Grace | August 13, 2008 9:46 PM | Report abuse

OBAMANATION IS A GREAT BOOK WITH ALL THE FACTS IN ONE REFERENCE AREA.

Obama knocked Hillary Clinton out of the primary using John Edwards to capture all the extra superdelegates. Elizabeth never endorsed Obama because they all knew that John Edwards had the baby with Reille Hunter. The truth was going to come out as the Truth about Obama came out in this book.

Obama hates white people. He even called Michael Phelps a glutten. Phelps won the most medals than any person in history.

I hope McCain gets a pro choice VEEP. Maybe more Reps will vote for him. I am a lifelong Dem voting for McCain because Obama is too sexist, a liar, and too inexperienced to be president.

Posted by: Grace | August 13, 2008 9:45 PM | Report abuse

While McCain and his running-mate have no direct say on the issue of a woman's right to choose, they will have some influence on selecting supreme court justices. If these GOP cultists were lucky enough to get elected, then they can pack the supreme court with litmus-tested, pro-life activist judges. There are two left-leaning judges that are near the end of their life-span. Two newbie judges could swing the court to anti-abortion interventions. Something to think about, when voting for McCain and running mate.

Posted by: Richard | August 13, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

So much for appointing Supreme Court judges like Alito and Roberts. I guess this means all the conservatives who claim that he is not one are correct.

Posted by: Fightertom34 | August 13, 2008 9:29 PM | Report abuse

McCain could choose the tooth fairy and win this thing. Obama's a joke!

Posted by: Todd | August 13, 2008 9:29 PM | Report abuse

When are these men going to realize that they have *no*say*whatsoever* on the issue of abortion? It is absolutely laughable.

Posted by: FactChecker1 | August 13, 2008 9:15 PM | Report abuse

McCain takes command? Of what? Certainly not his senses. So a candidate, not an elected policy director, takes a break from an 18-month campaign and somehow John McCain is in charge and all is right with the world? Good lord, I hope he does pick lieberman. Frick and Frack for president and vp. All mccain cares bout is mccain and all lieberman cares about is lieberman and Israel.

Posted by: mike l | August 13, 2008 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Since McCain is nearly 100 years old my guess is he's going to pick a running-mate whose YOUNGER than him?!?!? Maybe someone who could actually serve out a two full terms if necessary!?!?...which won't matter anyway because I'm guessing that there's at least a 50/50 chance that the Rethugs will replace McCain with a better candidate this fall.

John McCentury - He's Not Old, He's Ancient!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG_RV6EQFSg

Posted by: Bu$h Wacked | August 13, 2008 9:04 PM | Report abuse

That man gets crazier by the day. Can we start all over and choose a new nominee? I'm sick of this choice.

Posted by: NCgal | August 13, 2008 8:59 PM | Report abuse

McCain should pick Ronald Reagan. People loved him. It would make McBush look younger and more energetic by comparison...So what if he's dead...

Posted by: Dude... | August 13, 2008 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Priscilla says she ain't takin no chance wit no radical muslim lover. The brains on the Repubican side of this nation are rotten. Abby normal. genetically mutated. don't fetch up no ed. Is it not elementary how a country of 300 million chemically bomb a defenseless oil reserve into a red, white and blue mush for Jesus cause we don't fetch no radical muslim lover. Indeed. The stupidity is staggering. Say hey to the House of Saud ding dong.

Posted by: bob II | August 13, 2008 8:56 PM | Report abuse

"McCain most likely would win ALL 18 million Hillary supporters."

Does that include the 60% or so of Hillary supporters that have already said that they're voting for Obama?

Posted by: JamesCH | August 13, 2008 8:51 PM | Report abuse

"brains to lead us into this century"???
It's not Obama dama ding dong- "song and dance man". McCain most likely would win ALL 18 million Hillary supporters. He probably will anyway- I'd rather take my chances with him than the radical muslim lover. We got enough problems without dragging all of them into this, changing our holidays and no telling what else. Who cares where Obama is? It's a total relief not seeing his mug everywhere you turn.

Posted by: priscilla | August 13, 2008 8:45 PM | Report abuse

A lose-lose dilemma for McCain and his pro-death party.

Merely to debate it serves to recall the ugly truth: Republicans don't care about Americans unless they're inside your uterus.

Posted by: jhbyer | August 13, 2008 8:45 PM | Report abuse

Pro-choice? You mean like Larry Craig?

Posted by: steve boyington | August 13, 2008 8:33 PM | Report abuse

As a liberal southern Democrat I really do not like Mr. Lieberman. Ned Lamont beat him fair and square and my party fed him to the wolves. bad dems. We're doing some weeding and feeding in the Democratic Party. As far as Mr. Magoo who's 72, supporting a woman's right to do whatever she wishes with her own body is an exercise in futility. Mr. Magoo is a dinosaur. He's going to lose and America is going to get busy going back to work rebuilding for fuel cell vehicles like Iceland, wind farms, harnessing the Gulf Stream, fantastic things. If we can run a rover on the other side of Never Never Land we can rebuild our nation for a sustainable future. McCain is the Past. Obama is the future. Choose wisely!

Posted by: bob II | August 13, 2008 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, Lieberman would be a good pick. The Senator from Tel Aviv paired with the Senator from Tbilisi. Given how beholden McCain is to his foreign policy team made up of lobbyists, and Lieberman's well-known fealty to Israel's perceived interests over the US' own, that would be perfect.

It would be great if the Post actually reported on any of this, but why do that when they can talk about where Obama vacations?

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Dear Chris:

I thought about retiring but came back. I missed you guys!

Someone spread the rumor that I am a terrorist here in Cambridge, MA. Last Saturday I went to Legal Seafood in Harvard Square; that is what people working there told me (Noir Bar as well).

I also asked people around why they think that a tiny Asian woman can be a terrorist: One of my friends mentioned the National Rifle Association. If anyone has been blogging there with my user-name, he/she is not me: My English is broken.

There is also a videotape that I auditioned for the media coverage! If you can get the tape videotaped on August 11 at 1:11 a.m., you will see what I mean: The last T from Harvard Square to Porter Square (mbta.com). It is fun!

Posted by: premier | August 13, 2008 8:05 PM | Report abuse

Explain to me how the Iraq War and the Death Penalty are "pro-life" stances?

Posted by: AxelDC | August 13, 2008 7:49 PM | Report abuse

the more i hear from and about Sen McCain the less I respect him

Posted by: ro | August 13, 2008 7:42 PM | Report abuse

When is the MSM going to talk more about John McCain's first marriage? During the 2000 campaign I heard the details only once, on a talk-radio show. During this 2008 cycle I have read a few blogger posts about it, but haven't read anything in the MSM like the Post. How come? If you say it is 'old news' then does that mean there is a statute of limitations on a person's life? At what point do you not report on a person's past? To me, it IS info that says something about McCain's character. He returned from Vietnam to find his first wife, Carol, seriously and permanently maimed and scarred from a horrific car crash she had while he was overseas. She had undergone 23 operations, and was left permanently crippled. McCain almost immediately began a series of affairs. After he met 24 year-old beer heiress Cindy, he demanded that his wife agree to a divorce. She did not want it, but he insisted, and he married Cindy less than a month after it was final. Just seems to me the MSM should be sure this info is out there. Then let the voters decide if they think it says something about McCain's character that he dumped his crippled, scarred wife, and mother of his children, for a young rich blonde. But the MSM should not be 'selective' in what life history they report.

Posted by: JB | August 13, 2008 7:33 PM | Report abuse

If John McCain chooses a pro-choice VP running mate he will effectively abdidicate his base support among not only Evangelicals but among traditional or orthodox Catholics like myself who would probably end up 1)not voting for either candidate and2) working collaboratively to start a new third party for future elections. For us the life issues are the basic upon which all other 'issues' rely. It is not one issue among many. So no Tom Ridge or Joe Lieberman as VP. I doubt there would be objection to Joe in the Cabinet though. Besides, there are enough good pro-life Conservative candidates to choose from. Why aren't we hearing more about Eric Cantor? He was the buzz a week and half ago when asked to submit his personal documents for vetting. Mitt Romney, Eric Cantor, Condi Rice, Sarah Palin (maybe in 2012 but I would take her now!) all good choices. No Tom Ridge.

Posted by: Mary McCurry | August 13, 2008 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Well, his anti-gay comment proves his GOP bona fides. I wish he'd just fess up to the racism bit.--a native Southerner

Posted by: Party of Hate | August 13, 2008 7:09 PM | Report abuse

McCain picking Lieberman would ensure that Lieberman does for McCain and Republicans, what he did for Al Gore and Democrats, and what he did for Democrats in Connecticut. The good thing about that choice is that Lieberman will get knock off candidates from both parties. It is not like getting elected, but it would be a cool note in history books. Hard to see Lieberman exciting the Republican base but he would fire up the Democrat base. Two old, white, self-centered farts sound like a winning team to me.

Posted by: Harrison Picot | August 13, 2008 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Lisa is a fool. Obama issued a statement calling for the Russians to withdraw from South Ossetia and for their forces to be replaced by international peacekeepers. That's basically the same position taken by the Bush Administration. It should be mentioned that the administration tried unsuccessfully to convince the Georgians not to send their forces into the disputed territory in the first place, which precipitated the whole crisis.

As for McCain, what exactly did he do, besides proclaim that "We are all Georgians"? Not a damn thing. Even the President of Georgia called him out on that.

Posted by: Patrick | August 13, 2008 7:05 PM | Report abuse

It would be a very, very, very bad idea for McCain to choose as a running mate someone *primarily known* to the general public for being NOT pro-life (e.g., Ridge). It could result in a net loss of votes, but more importantly, it will turn a significant percentage of his GOP base supporters into very unenthusiastic supporters. They may still vote for him, but will not be inclined to work hard on his behalf or to give money. I put myself in that category. What little he might gain will be many times offset by what he stands to lose. (Lieberman as VP would actually sit better with the GOP base than Ridge, I think, because Lieberman is not primarily known for being not pro-life.) Ridge would be great in many capacities in the McCain administration, but will not be accepted by the GOP base as McCain's running mate. That may or may not be fair, but I think that's how it is.

Posted by: acasilaco | August 13, 2008 7:00 PM | Report abuse

If McCain chooses a pro-choice veep, he will lose many of the voters who are mostly likely to vote for him and gain...who? Solidly pro-choice voters will already vote Obama. McCain needs to appeal to the middle and to the right, not to the left, and especially since his veep choice will be more significant than most due to McCain's age, McCain would be an idiot to choose anyone who is going to alienate the voters that McCain most needs to win.

More and more, I am growing convinced that McCain does not want to win this election. He is either the most boneheaded, dimwitted candidate in decades, or else he simply does not care about kicking sand in voters' faces. Hillary Clinton sealed her loss in Iowa when her campaign floated the memo about potentially skipping Iowa entirely, and that loss arguably sealed her campaign's eventual doom. Floating the idea of a pro-choice VP is a lot like what Clinton did with the Iowa memo, at least in terms of the effects it will have on McCain's chances in November. Even if McCain retreats to pick a solidly pro-life candidate, the fact that he was willing to bend on abortion will alienate enough voters to upend any chance that McCain might have hoped for.

Posted by: blert | August 13, 2008 6:58 PM | Report abuse

A correction, Chris.

Mitt Romney is not pro-choice - he is "multiple choice."

Posted by: bondjedi | August 13, 2008 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Lisa. And your point is what exactly? John McCain has lobbyists running his campaign who made millions lobbying for Georgia. Good judgement? I think not.

Obama's is only a presidential candidate who happens to be on vacation. You would have him do what exactly?

'Russia murders' and Bush is yucking it up and butt slapping volleyball players at the Olympics. He's spent his entire Presidency on vacation. Judgement? Deadly judgement.

Give me the smart young guy who knows how to use a computer and who has the energy and brains to lead us into this century, not back to the last one.

And he won't need a nap to be at his best.

Posted by: Unrepentant Liberal | August 13, 2008 6:48 PM | Report abuse

He would actually pick pro-choice no-neck Tom Ridge? Please, please. They would make such a cute couple on stage togehter.

Posted by: Unrepentant Liberal | August 13, 2008 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Just a guess here, but I would think that the right will stick a pin in this balloon.

If he picks a pro-choice Veep, that Veep has a good chance to become the next president before McCain's fist term is over.

If abortion were my touchtone issue. I'd take a vacation on election day.

Posted by: The Observer | August 13, 2008 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Not long ago, April to be more accurate, McCain said in Hardball that he will NOT pick a pro-choice candidate like Tom Ridge, note that the question was explicitely about Ridge, because he wanted someone equally committed to the right of the unborn. Now, less than 4 months later McCain is totally reversing his previous stance. So, Who is the flip-floper? Who is the double-talker express? McSame, McSame, McSame!!!!

Posted by: carl29 | August 13, 2008 6:30 PM | Report abuse

wondering,

It would probably cause some concerns for the conservative base, especially the Christian right, which is has been a big part of the GOP ground game for years. The question is, does the potential gains among independents worth alienating those voters?

Probably not. That's why it is unlikely that McCain will choose a vocally pro-choice VP.

Posted by: JamesCH | August 13, 2008 6:29 PM | Report abuse

In thinking about the Veep selection, what would the selection of a pro-choice or at least non-pro-life (?) candidate do to the supply of volunteers and fund raising for the Republican party (and the affiliated groups such as 527 organizations)? Any sense that it might exacerbate the potential for a significant part of the core constituency to sit this one out?

Posted by: wondering | August 13, 2008 6:25 PM | Report abuse


Sometimes the URL for the Fix is "blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix" and other times it's "voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix"

Is anyone else getting this anomaly?

Posted by: blog or voices? | August 13, 2008 6:23 PM | Report abuse

That's almost haiku.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse


Russia murders.

Obama buys popcorn at the movies.

Judgement?

Posted by: Lisa | August 13, 2008 6:10 PM | Report abuse

McCAIN THE MAVERICK REDUX: BUSHIE FATIGUE?

McCain has been giving off signs that he's chafing under the yoke of the Bush operatives who have taken over his messaging and advertising.

This trial balloon fits that narrative. It's wise politics. With Obama doing a slow pre-convention deflation -- did you see the latest dead-even battleground state polls? -- McCain is realizing he can maintain his "maverick" persona if he draws independents and disaffected Dems who are put off by Obamanist posturing.

All the more reason for Dems to do some serious re-thinking.

And where was Barack today as Russia resumed its Georgian aggression? Once again, McCain takes command while Obama basks and lazes. Why is he sabotaging himself? This is not a good sign for his prospects -- in the fall, or in Denver.

BUT WILL THE ELECTION EVEN MATTER? Not when government-supported "vigilante injustice" squads are targeting Americans outside of the bounds of the law:
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/get-political-vic-livingston-opinion-expose-state-supported-vigilante-squads-doing-domestic-terrorism


Posted by: scrivener | August 13, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

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