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To vote or not to vote (or health care and the 2010 midterms)

On Wednesday President Barack Obama laid out in stark terms his belief that the time for talking about health care was over and the time for voting on the legislation had arrived.

Of the coming vote, he said: "I do not know how this plays politically, but I know it's right."

For Democratic Members of Congress, that line typifies the political danger surrounding the coming vote. While the coverage of the future of the health care debate has largely focused on the fight over reconciliation, the larger issue for the increasingly large pool of of vulnerable Democrats in the House and Senate is whether passing the bill at all is the right thing to do politically.

Conventional wisdom in Democratic circles is that the only politically viable path for the party on health care is to pass something -- and do it as quickly as Congress' glacial pace allows -- and move on to more popular proposals (jobs bill, financial regulatory reform etc) in advance of the November election.

This sentiment, which has been voiced behind closed doors for months by President Obama as well as senior officials in his Administration, was typified in the lead of today's Politico story on the end game strategy surrounding health care.

Wrote Carrie Budoff Brown and Patrick O'Connor:

"Two senior administration officials said the White House is telling Democrats reconsidering their support for health care reform that they will pay the price for their original vote no matter what happens, so they should reap the political benefits of actually passing a law."

Democratic campaign strategists are less sanguine about the political prospects of passing the comprehensive health care reform package but cast it as the best of two not-very-good options.

"The best course electorally for the Democrats would be to pass a scaled-back version of health insurance reform with a little Republican support," said one senior Democratic consultant. "But nothing is lost now passing the Obama Plan [since] the risky votes already have been cast."

While Democrats seem to have settled on the idea that passing the bill is their only option, Republican strategists -- publicly and privately -- argue that their opponents are digging their political hole even deeper if they cast another vote for the legislation.

"I love the logic that immediately imposing $500 billion in Medicare cuts and $400 billion in tax hikes while delaying 'benefits' until 2014 will somehow put Republicans on defensive," said Rob Jesmer, the executive director of the National Republican Senatorial Committee.

Republican operatives like Jesmer believe that Democrats' willingness to extend the fight over health care (again) has helped them in two major ways.

First, it has allowed what is a relatively fractious group of Republicans Senators to appear entirely united -- a sharp contrast to the divisions that have played out publicly between the moderate and liberal wings of the Democratic party.

Second, Republicans argue, the health care focus is the main reason for the abandonment of Democratic candidates by independent voters in gubernatorial elections in Virginia and New Jersey as well as in Sen. Scott Brown's (R) special election victory in January.

In a survey conducted by GOP pollster Bill McInturff, he found that Obama's approval rating among independents had fallen from 56 percent in the first six months of 2009 to 44 percent today. "One sure reason for the descent is the President's misguided effort to overhaul health care," writes McInturff. "Health care requires some amount of reform but it is the nature and the extent of that reform that is causing independent voters heartburn."

Those numbers mirror data in the latest Washington Post/ABC News poll in which 44 percent of independents said they supported the proposed changes in the health care system while 52 percent opposed them.

Republicans acknowledge that they will still hit people like Sens. Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas and Michael Bennet of Colorado for their initial vote for the President's health care plan but believe that by keeping the legislation in the public eye for at least another two weeks (and possibly longer) Democrats are making any sort of pivot to other, more popular issues that much more difficult.

At the center of the disagreement over the politics of passing the bill is whether, once passed, the legislation can be sold to the American public in a way that turns around their current doubts about it.

The White House has long maintained that public opinion has turned against the bill largely because people aren't sure what's in it or what it will do. Once something is passed into law and voters see what the legislation is (and isn't), they argue, the numbers will begin to tick up.

Jesmer, for one, scoffs at that idea. "My question is if they cannot sell the health care plan in Massachusetts, where can they sell it," he asked, referring to Brown's victory over state Attorney General Martha Coakley in the Jan. 19 special election.

It's hard to imagine -- given the difficulty in reversing public opinion on an issue that has been front and center in the national debate for so long -- that the numbers on health care will improve dramatically and quickly if and when a bill is passed.

That may spell trouble for Congressional Democrats who have to face voters in 243 days as it's not clear how much of the bill can be implemented prior to November. Obama, on the other hand, has the luxury of a far longer timetable in which to sell the benefits of the bill to the American public as he won't stand for re-election until 2012.

No matter which side of the debate you come down on, it's clear that the coming health care vote in Congress will be a centerpiece of the 2010 midterm elections. Whether that's a good or a bad thing for Democrats we won't likely know for a few more months.

By Chris Cillizza  |  March 4, 2010; 11:21 AM ET
Categories:  White House  
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Comments

Before anyone decides their vote on HCR, you must watch this reality awakening video. Thanks to the poster that brought this to my attention.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPh85FsOkpc

Posted by: Intuition1010 | March 6, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Obama arrogantly has pushed his health reform and ignored our nation's economy and jobless. If our economy fails and our jobless remain jobless all our health reforms will falter. Then where will we be?

Every single "program" the Democrats put out has failed or is failing!!! Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, all are failing. The government-run Postal Service is failing. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac failed. Yet, they continue to come up with more "programs" that will eventually end up the same way!!!

THESE 'THICK HEADS' JUST DON'T GET IT!!!! VOTE THEM ALL OUT IN NOVEMBER!!!!

Posted by: brown301944 | March 5, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Shut up, coprophage.

Who pays your bills, 37th? You clearly don't have a job. Psychiatric disability? Thought so.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 5, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler


What do you mean a dead issue ? We have a situation in which Obama is lying to the American people about what is in the bill.


Pretty simple.


Read pages 2069-2078 - the Federal law is being changed significantly.

Why in the world would there have been other language negotiated if the language in the bill has not changed.

On this point, the deception and treachery of the democrats has come back to hurt them - they had a compromis - AND they walked away from it.

FRAUD.


It is that simple.

Obama ran around the country for two years telling everyone how he was going to be a great "uniter."


AND this is job performance we get from him?


Resignation is in order.


If there had been such a gap between promised action and job performance anywhere else, that person would be fired. If any of this happened in the private sector, Obama would be fired. Immediately.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 5, 2010 5:44 AM | Report abuse

Noacoler |


Stop being a complete idiot - you have been banned from this blog three times.


When will you leave?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 5, 2010 5:39 AM | Report abuse

If you want to drive a car, you are required to buy auto insurance.  Cop pulls you over, he demands to see proof you have.

If you want to get a mortgage, you're required to buy house insurance.  Don't buy it, don't get to buy a house either.

Don't hear the goobs screaming about TYranny TYranny TYranny about those.

Want to live and work in the USA, you should be required to buy medical insurance.  Ideally this would be government-administered to keep down administrative costs and to prevent the wasteful duplication of effort the zombies call "competition."  And making a profit on basic medical care or coverage should be worth hard penitentiary time.  If only the people who are most likely to need medical care are paying into the risk pool, they won't be able to afford it.

But wait there's more.  Just as insurance companies must be barred from denying their services to those most likely to need it through no fault of their own, they must also be allowed, nay, required to charge more to people are conduct their lives in irresponsible ways that increase their likelihood of needing care.  Smoke cigarettes?  You should be charged an extra $5K per year (estimated), or whatever the average differential is for tobacco-related illnesses.  Smoke yourself to death, but pick up your disprortionate tab.  Don't exercise?  Fine, but you're going to pay more.  Let yourself get fat?  Doctor sends your eval to the insurer and you pay more to cover the increased likelihood of your ELECTIVELY elevated risk.  Most important to legally distinguish between the summoned and the unsummoned
.
If living on Pepsi and potato chips is your choice, then it'll cost you, and after you get tired of working 12 hours a week to pay for the privilege then maybe you'll discover salad.  And going to the gym.  And quitting smoking.

Yeah, TYranny TYranny TYranny, right?  Wrong.  Sound libertarian policy, actual costs.  And long overdue.

Noacoler
fit, trim, healthy eater of salad seafood and tofu (middle fingers the smokers)

Posted by: Noacoler | March 5, 2010 2:34 AM | Report abuse

I would tread lightly if I were you, 37th.

You are being watched. And the organizers are NOT amused.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 5, 2010 2:01 AM | Report abuse

REGIONAL HOMELAND-RUN 'FUSION CENTERS' USE SECRET MICROWAVE/LASER DIRECTED ENERGY WEAPON SYSTEM TO TORTURE, IMPAIR, 'SLOW-KILL' AMERICANS: JOURNALIST VICTOR LIVINGSTON

Veteran mainstream media reporter asks the question the national press corps won't:

"How much longer will the Obama security team cover up and continue Bush-Cheney program atrocities?"

JOURNALIST/VICTIM'S FIRST-HAND ACCOUNT OF U.S. GOV'T TORTURE:

See "comments" section:

http://nowpublic.com/world/u-s-govt-uses-cbs-news-cover-microwave-cell-tower-torture?

OR: http://poynter.org/subject.asp?id=2 ("articles" list)

Posted by: scrivener50 | March 5, 2010 2:00 AM | Report abuse


Well guys - not too many people want to talk about the abortion issue.

==

why would anyone want to discuss anything with a god damn idiot like you? All you do is repeat yourself hysterically.

12B and I had a great discussion about the topic on here a few nights ago while Jake wet himself whining about why he refused to talk with us. Some dodge about personal attacks.

Abortion as a part of HCR is a dead issue. You just piggyback it for more unhinged junk about Obama. Yawn. You should take a bath with your toaster.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 5, 2010 1:22 AM | Report abuse

More on this blogger being tried in New Jersey. Turns out he is a paid informant for the FBI who was trained to make the kind of violent comments he was making (per the defense). May be something to it since the prosecution moved to block that evidence. This gets more interesting. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/federal_judges_testify_they_fe.html

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 5, 2010 12:29 AM | Report abuse


Well guys - not too many people want to talk about the abortion issue.


On one hand, we have Obama and the administration COMPLETELY LYING about what is in the Senate bill.

On the other hand, there was a compromise that was negotiated out - but Obama didn't want to take the compromise.

Sound familiar? Sounds like the whole health care bill.

In a sense, Obama's overreaching is killing the whole health care bill.

It would be a joke if it wasn't so sad.

They HAD A DEAL WITH STUPAK - THEY WENT BACK ON IT.


It is amazing that NOW they really really need Stupak's votes - and they got themselves into a position in which it would be difficult to get the language through the Senate.


But they had the deal done - it was agreed to - Stupak was on board.

Why in the world wasn't the Senate democrats and Obama on board with that deal???


As it stands now, if the House goes first, the Senate democrats can walk away from any changes.

I would never ever take that deal.


They are going to have to figure out a way for the Senate to go first - and put the whole deal in front of the House.

The House democrats already have to swallow the whole Senate bill whole - so why should the House go first and leave themselves vulnerable???

How this thing just doesn't collapse is interesting -

There are so many other issues between the Senate version and the House version - it is hard to believe that they are working all this out - and it is going on over the next two weeks.

The House can't go first, they will get screwed.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 5, 2010 12:23 AM | Report abuse

BB,

My wife has been in semi-retirement from pediatrics after she had our first son. She volunteers at a “Free Clinic” to keep her hands in medicine, but many of her patients are adults since most children have some type of coverage. The only children she sees are typically from either Spanish speaking or graduate student’s families. She actually likes this practice since its once a week (she does not go every week) and only for a couple of hours, not to mention the recipients are so appreciative of the help. The Clinic is not faith based, however, the organization providing the space for the clinic is a church. I am not sure if the church receives any compensation for the space.

All that to say I am not against churches helping the poor and I wished more were involved. I think Christians can still serve others with secular organizations just as easily as they can serve in sacred organization. IMHO the message of the Gospel is distinct and I hate to see it diluted even if its for a good cause.

Posted by: sliowa1 | March 4, 2010 11:27 PM | Report abuse

A note on the RKBA .. guns are illegal in Việt Nam, of course, except for the army (and if you aren't turned on by those young men in their uniforms I don't know what's wrong with you), the cops, and a few very rare permits. The only gun I ever saw on someone not in a uniform was a jewelry store guard in Saigon, wide open to the street. Saw him horsing around with another guard one day, and ummm, he didn't need a gun. Talk about sudden death .. both hands and both feet. They start learning kung fu really young over there. This guy could kill any of you strutting tough guys with his thumb.

I think the RKBA should be repealed, frankly, not because I think the law-abiding deserve to be disarmed but because when all is said and done the RKBA just causes too much deadly fanaticism here, too much murder, too many jerks who might STFU if they didn't have their guns to crow about.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 4, 2010 11:13 PM | Report abuse

@noa,

Follow the link to hear about this guy. He posted the addresses of the 3 judges on his blog. The addresses might even be in the public domain, don't know. Anyway, his defense is free speech. The prosecution wants him put away because they are retrying after a hung jury.

The more incidents that crop up where threats actually turn into events, the more the FBI/SS or whoever will be scrutinizing the threats. It does make you wonder who is watching OUR comments.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 11:13 PM | Report abuse

In somewhat scary matters, a shooter showed up at the Pentagon Metro station today. No jumping to conclusions, but wondering about potential connections.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 4, 2010 10:55 PM
------------------------------
Connections to what, do you think? I haven't actually heard about it. Have a link?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

In somewhat scary matters, a shooter showed up at the Pentagon Metro station today. No jumping to conclusions, but wondering about potential connections.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 4, 2010 10:55 PM | Report abuse

I hope the Feds are reading this blog and they pick up happy li'l Jake. A few months in the pen with a boyfriend named Big Leroy would iron some of the starch out of his 'tude

Posted by: Noacoler | March 4, 2010 10:42 PM | Report abuse

Congress (the House and Senate) and the President are oblivious to the will of the American People and they have no understanding of the word “NO!” If the President continues to insist on passage of this bankrupt legislation, he will find himself looking for a job in less than 3 years and the People will drive Congress out with a loud "Get Out and Stay Out!" this November.

Posted by: marinervn6971 | March 4, 2010 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Is anyone following the case of blogger, Hal Turner who is be re-tryed for threatening language on his blog. He has been investigated by the Secret Service and nothing came of it. Now he's being tried for threats against 3 federal judges. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/federal_judges_testify_they_fe.html

How does anyone know what is said on a blog? This blog is monitored, right? Do they report...?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 9:59 PM | Report abuse

I don't get it - did the democrats really negotiate a deal with the Catholic Bishops - and then renege ???

I can see no other way to see it.


Why weren't the Senate democrats on board with the deal?


Why wasn't the Stupak compromise in the Senate bill ????

It just seems the most outrageous thing - to negotiate a deal - get headlines that the Catholic Bishops have signed onto the deal - and then turn your back on the deal.

Obama should have never stood for that - it is outrageous - unless Obama was behind the action to renege.

This bill deserves to fail. The democrats deserve to fail. Obama deserves to fail.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 9:43 PM | Report abuse

@sliowa1 - Sorry for the delay in responding. Bowling league tonight. Not too bad for me--lanes were dry and so the ball had a heavy hook. What looked like perfect pocket shots kept leaving the 10 pin. It took a game or so to figure it out and I split my match. Anyway…

Your position is consistent and intellectually honest. I'm mostly on the other end--it's not a problem if there's a food kitchen in the church. Heck, one of my sons went to a neighborhood preschool based in the local Methodist church. I had a dependent care flexible spending account and therefore, received a tax break that went directly to a church.

I respect the opposing position and can live with a system in which subsidized plans do not cover abortion. As I said in my previous message, money is fungible.

BB
My opinion is that this is a substantial benefit and so even if

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 4, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

sliowa1

The answer to your question is that after months of negotiations, and after bringing in the Catholic Bishops to be a part of the deal, THE DEMOCRATS APPARENTLY DECIDED TO RENEGE ON THE DEAL.

There can be no other reason why it was not in the Senate bill.

If the democrats were being honest, and dealing straight-up, the Senate democrats would have been included and would have been on-board with the deal.

Instead, the democrats MADE THE DEAL, GOT THE HEADLINES AND THEN WALKED AWAY FROM IT.

There are people on this blog tonight who are insisting that the deal is still part of the health care bill right now.

Right now, the Senate bill requires a dollar a month from all Americans to go into a special account to pay for abortions - it is in there.


NO matter how many lies Obama and the rest of the administration tell you, it is in there.


Pages 2069 - 2078 LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF.


For a long time people have been saying Obama is a FRAUD, Obama is a liar

There he goes again..........


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 9:16 PM | Report abuse

Nancy Pelosi and Obama are trying to line up votes - but they don't have all the "fixes" done in the bills - AND they are not sure the Senate is going to agree to all the "fixes." SO HOW CAN THEY MAKE A DEAL???

This process has become a complete mess.

If one goes back to the fall, we were constantly told - whenever this committee or that committee passed a version of the health care bill - "it doesn't matter what is in the bill - it's not the final version."

EVERYONE voted for the House and the Senate versions thinking that there would be negotiations between the two chambers - and a final compromise would come to pass.

Even the Senators who perhaps didn't like their version of the bill, voted for it because they believed the final version would be something between the House and the Senate versions.

NOW all that has changed - but is it really what anyone intended???


There is something seriously wrong with the way this process has been conducted.

I have never ever heard of a bill going to Congress with so much lying going on around it. Take the abortion provisions - the Senate version SIMPLY DOES NOT HAVE THE PROVISIONS WHICH OBAMA AND HIS ADMINISTRATION CLAIMS.

So, the whole process smells -

There is also an unsettling sense that Obama has no moral compass through any of this - does he have any positions on any of this? Obama never had his own version of the bill.

OK, well Stupak says he has 12 - how many other House members who said NO last time will continue to say NO ???

Clearly, if the House passes the Senate bill first, the Senate never has to act, - and that is a significant issue.

Forget it. What is anyone going to do if the Senate Parliamentarian says the provisions in the reconciliation bill do not pass muster ?

Forget it. Just forget it.

It takes a long time, but they are always rushing you.


Forget it.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Blarg,

Why did the Senate not adopt similar language as the House other than to appease pro-choice advocates? The House version clearly creates a wall desired by pro-life advocates. Stupak is no R trying to poison a bill hoping to add enough amendments to final kill HCR. He knows how the system works and he wanted no part of it.

When I write grants for research I add nuance statements that give me the wiggle room to do other things. I know others when asked directly by funding agency officials if money for positions will only be used on the project in question respond in a nuanced affirmative. However, in actually the researchers has several individuals working on multiple projects (i.e. no one person is assigned to any single project). Thus money for the position is in fact supplementing other projects and other projects are supplementing that project. All that to say its rather easy to hide money if you know how to do it.

Posted by: sliowa1 | March 4, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Aprogressiveindependent


AND the reason they are delaying the benefits for 3-4 years is because Obama and the democrats want to engage in an ACCOUNTING TRICK - so they can LIE to the American People that the bill is paid for.


Yea.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 8:42 PM | Report abuse

Brainny


How can you believe that the Hyde Amendment is not going to be overridden by the Health Care bill


The bill wants to take a dollar from everyone to create an "abortion fund"


This bill FUNDS abortion - exactly the opposite from what they are telling you.

Look it up -

See for yourself - or contrary to your name, remain ignorant.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 8:05 PM | Report abuse

I very seldom agree with anything said by a Republican. However, the Obama/Reid/Pelosi bill in delaying most reforms until 2014, while tens of thousands continue to die because of not having health care benefits, hundreds of thousands go bankrupt because of outrageous medical care costs, is incredibly morally callous, as well as politically stupid. A lot of people supporting the Obama/Reid/Pelosi bill think they will immediately benefit. Unfortunately they are sadly deluded.

Posted by: Aprogressiveindependent | March 4, 2010 8:03 PM | Report abuse

Brainny


What are you talking about? I am not telling you to read the entire bill - and I am giving you the exact pages to read to see what the bill says on abortion - Pages 2069-2078

You are being lied to about what is in the bill.

Yea, you THINK you have the Hyde amendment - that is what they have told you - but it is one big lie - they are trying to overturn it without telling you.


You can not trust the democrats.


They are a bunch of liars.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Why also hold up a bill over tougher language. Abortion is also heavily regulated now and barely available ins many states.

Posted by: Brainny | March 4, 2010 7:25 PM | Report abuse

DO not need too, it's called the Hyde Amendment. Also I wonder who really does read a whole congressional bill. I am sometiem lucky to finish read things from the "awful" mainstream media, Wait I have been watching to much Fox News and Steve Dopey on Fox and Friends

Posted by: Brainny | March 4, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Brainny


Please go to Pages 2069-2078 of the Senate Health Care bill


You can not be more wrong.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Also whatever bill comes out of Congress will have strong abortion language thanks to Ben Nelson. So people need to take a deep breath and not gte so worked up over abortion coverage in this bill.

Posted by: Brainny | March 4, 2010 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Obama shoudl have put more pressure on Baucus during the gang of 6 talks, actually I mean the "sucker talks" because Grassley and the others in the Grand Obstructionist Party care only about short temr political gain. Grassley supported the mandate until Obama supported it. The Congress will pass health care and actually think about the 33 million without care and not think of short term political gain like the Grand Obstructionist Party

Posted by: Brainny | March 4, 2010 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Re: Comment by Anthony Rimell (6:33pm today, 4 March):
Let me see if I have this correct:
"Freedom of speech is to be commended."

Commended? Commended?

Thank you for your intellectual fervor.

Posted by: rgfdad | March 4, 2010 7:00 PM | Report abuse

anthonyrimell


We all know that broadwayjoe and his pals are trying to organize a protest - all in an effort to silence one set of posters on this blog.

They tried the same thing on the Daily Kos during the primaries - and they got the Daily Kos to banish the Hillary people.

For some reason, I don't believe you are a lone, independent person - instead you are working with broadwayjoe and his pals to pretend that there is unhappiness.

Well, if there is speech you do not like, the solution is more speech.


Not trying to silence one point of view. So put on your Hitler mustache and get out of here.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of action in the streets: Right as we speak there are multiple demonstrations about the California cuts to education. Some demonstrators are trying to block I80 but the CHIP's have them blockaded. In Contra Costa county, protestors are heading for the freeway. In Concord, high school protestors are marching to Todos Santas Plaza. Check it out on sfgate.com.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Chris

I have long enjoyed your blog. Despite the various protestations from the extremists in both corners, I have found it to be insightful and informative.

But I have to say that as of today I can no longer read your blog.

Why?

Becaue the 'debate' that follows it has fallen so far into pure bile and drivel (led I have to say by Zouk - I mean 37thand0), that it is simply no longer tolerable.

Freedom of speech is to be commended. Freedom of drool (hey there Zouk) is another thng entirely. It seems to me that if WaPo cant find some way to provide an informed and rational posting site, it would be better to close it down entirely.

Good luck Chris: how you cope each day reading the nonsense from Zouk et al I have no idea...

Posted by: anthonyrimell | March 4, 2010 6:33 PM | Report abuse

“In the space of 10 days, thanks in no small part to my own newspaper,” Broder begins, “the president of the United States has been portrayed as a weakling and a chronic screw-up who is wrecking his administration despite everything that his chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, can do to make things right."


_______________________________

This can only be settled with a series of cage matches in the newsroom of the Washington Post.

Chris - my money is on Broder to wipe Dana Millbank's ass.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 6:23 PM | Report abuse

shrink2 wrote: "No one wants to be sitting next to an armed guy who's getting drunk."

Sadly, I'll bet people sit next to armed drunk guys more than they know. It is one of so many great reasons to stay out of bars.
--------------------------------------
True story. When I was young, I knew 2 guys who were playing russian roulette while downing shots at the bar. Only, they were holding the gun to each others head. And everyone was sitting around watching them.

They were only 19 for God's sake and friends. The shooter got life in Deer Lodge for murder.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

then I explained I was from Seattle, relief all around.
----------------------------------
From minor to major, as they say.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Obama said in front of Congress - that the health care bill would not change the abortion law.


See pages 2069-2078 of the Senate health care bill.


Obama said that illegal aliens would not be able to buy insurance under the bill


They can


Obama said that the bill was "fully paid for"


ONLY IF YOU ARE IN THE ACCOUNTING DEPARTMENT AT ENRON.


Obama LIED


Obama LIED


Obama LIED


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 6:10 PM | Report abuse


"Only in San Francisco would the militia types be going to the beach and out for lattes!"


I always figured the "packin' heat" crowd to be truckstop coffee types & not go for that foo-foo eurotrash stuff with the steamed milk and sickly-sweet syrups.

"Sure I'm drinking a double-skim caramel-mocha-frappuccino with extra whipcream and a dusting of cocoa, but I'm packing a derringer AND I'm happy to see you!"

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 4, 2010 6:00 PM
-----------------------------------
Exactly. I love that "AND I'm happy to see you."

I predict the Starbucks thing won't go on long. It's not good for the macho image, as you so astutely point out. The low fat Sierra scotchbread croissants are not it. Plus, you can only pack maybe 15 or so if you filled up the joint.

Of course, if they go to the truck stop, they won't have anyone to educate. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 6:09 PM | Report abuse

@12BarBlues: I start off every day with five shots downed in one draught. Bought the day before and left on the bedpost. No sugar... People who adulterate coffe with sugar deserve to be shot.

Alas no telepathy but it does give me power over weak minds.

Asked for the same in Singapore some years ago, they didn't believe they were hearing right, repeated confirmation in Cantonese... then I explained I was from Seattle, relief all around.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 4, 2010 6:07 PM | Report abuse

I've had 17 shots of expresso in my latte


I hold the record.

.................

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse

"Only in San Francisco would the militia types be going to the beach and out for lattes!"


I always figured the "packin' heat" crowd to be truckstop coffee types & not go for that foo-foo eurotrash stuff with the steamed milk and sickly-sweet syrups.

"Sure I'm drinking a double-skim caramel-mocha-frappuccino with extra whipcream and a dusting of cocoa, but I'm packing a derringer AND I'm happy to see you!"

.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 4, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

they had a thing called a Mindsweeper, 5 shots of espresso and a big herfin' load of sugar. Is that legal?

Posted by: shrink2 | March 4, 2010 5:52 PM
-------------------------------------
Probably not legal, but it oughta be. My kinda drink! Your eyes would be stuck open so wide you'd be able to read minds.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 5:57 PM | Report abuse

shrink2


So you are against the 2nd Amendment - do you have problems with any other provisions of the Constitution ???


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

"No one wants to be sitting next to an armed guy who's getting drunk."

Sadly, I'll bet people sit next to armed drunk guys more than they know. It is one of so many great reasons to stay out of bars.

But what about armed guys getting blasted on caffeine? I smell a government study in the wind. In PDX there was a place called Coffee People (before it was bought and killed by a greater coffee powerhouse), they had a thing called a Mindsweeper, 5 shots of espresso and a big herfin' load of sugar. Is that legal?

Posted by: shrink2 | March 4, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

it's like poking at a sore spot in one's gums,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I keep telling you Ped, not to put things in your mouth that don't belong there. besides tasting like sh)t, you never where it's been. although the taste should be a clue.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

shrink2


Your posting at 2:56 appears to prove that you have racist motivations for your socialism.

How do you respond to the charge ???

You make these outrageous statements, then you don't even defend yourself.

Do you think we should redistribute the wealth to compensate for slavery and the Jim Crow laws ??


Is that why you have hostility toward white people who have done nothing to you?

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse

"Being government land that means it’s off limits to drilling."

Out here in the West its getting to be so its off limits to grazing cattle too, not to mention goin' 4X4. But hunting and fishing is still ok.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 4, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Obama said in front of Congress - that the health care bill would not change the abortion law.


See pages 2069-2078 of the Senate health care bill.


Obama said that illegal aliens would not be able to buy insurance under the bill


They can


Obama said that the bill was "fully paid for"


ONLY IF YOU ARE IN THE ACCOUNTING DEPARTMENT AT ENRON.


Obama LIED


Obama LIED


Obama LIED

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 5:35 PM | Report abuse

"Abortions for all!"
"BOOOOOO!"
"Very well then, no abortions for anyone!"
"BOOOOOO!"
"Abortions for some ... miniature American flags for everyone else!"
"YAAAAAY!"

Posted by: GJonahJameson | March 4, 2010 5:26 PM
-------------------------------------
GJonah, you are the MAN! This is the post of the day.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Michelle O. Almost every outfit that she wears she exercises the right to bear arms.

Posted by: leapin

Got to draw attention away from the acres of government land below the equator.
Posted by: drivl
-----------------------------------------
Being government land that means it’s off limits to drilling.

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

"Abortions for all!"
"BOOOOOO!"
"Very well then, no abortions for anyone!"
"BOOOOOO!"
"Abortions for some ... miniature American flags for everyone else!"
"YAAAAAY!"

Posted by: GJonahJameson | March 4, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

@Blarg: I get it, don't worry, and PgUp is my friend, but sometimes it's like poking at a sore spot in one's gums, or better metaphor, slowing down to watch the cops cuffing some poor sod at a traffic stop.

Seriously glad though to not live in a state like he lives in. The sickness is palpable.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 4, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Obama said in front of Congress - that the health care bill would not change the abortion law.


See pages 2069-2078


Obama said that illegal aliens would not be able to buy insurance under the bill


They can


Obama said that the bill was "fully paid for"


ONLY IF YOU ARE IN THE ACCOUNTING DEPARTMENT AT ENRON.

Obama LIED


Obama LIED


Obama LIED


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 5:23 PM | Report abuse

@noa,

Now, now you don't want to known as Noacoler the Harsh? Drivl wants to carry his weapons hidden and loaded, I assume. For the surprise value.

Drivl, you ought to go to some of these little old bars in Montana and see what its like when everyone is armed. Know what they do there? It's not the law, but everyone agrees with it. The bartender keeps everyone's weapons and that includes the knives and brass nuks in a box under the bar. When you leave, you get 'em back.

People who don't agree with this policy the first time, will agree with it the second time. No one wants to be sitting next to an armed guy who's getting drunk. Now, that's more surprise value than anyone wants. You know?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 5:22 PM | Report abuse

margaretmeyers


Don't copy what I write.


They said you have one tooth, is that right?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Blarg


What is wrong with you? There was a compromise made - the Stupak Amendment.

But the democrats, who can NOT be trusted, decided to go back on that agreement.

Sure sounds like Obama's commitments to be bipartisan - which means to pursue CENTRIST POLICIES WHICH BOTH PARTIES CAN AGREE ON.

Obama is a FRAUD.

Your position is ridiculous.

Or you are being deceptive. In either case, you have serious character flaws.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

37th and O,


Take your condescending attitude and STUFF IT. You never know what you are talking about

.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 4, 2010 5:16 PM | Report abuse

"You can ban abortion entirely, or you can never give anyone any government money. Neither are desirable."

Doh! You were making perfect sense and then you lost them entirely.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 4, 2010 5:16 PM | Report abuse

"...another in the belt."

That was Plaxico's mistake: sweatpants.
Now we all know elastic waist bands can cause more issues than denial of weight gain.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 4, 2010 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler, do you know what's even better than not being zouk? Not caring about zouk. I don't reply to every post he makes. I don't whine about his presence on the board. I don't make stupid jokes about him. I just ignore him. It's great. You should give it a try.

Posted by: Blarg | March 4, 2010 5:11 PM | Report abuse

the password is "fungible"

Posted by: Noacoler | March 4, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

sliowa, I don't see how this wall could be any more solid.

Health plans are legally allowed to cover abortions. The government gives people money to buy health insurance. If someone buys a health plan that offers an abortion, the government money goes into a fund that is never used for abortion. Abortions are paid for by the premiums, not government money.

True, the money all goes to the same place in the end. But how do you prevent that? Declare that no government money goes to a plan that covers abortions? That doesn't work either. A big insurer offers many plans. Maybe Blue Cross loses money on the abortion plan but makes it up on the government-supported no-abortion plan.

You could deny all government money to any insurer that covers abortions. If Blue Cross has any plan that covers abortion, they don't get any subsidies. But even that doesn't help! A woman could get government-subsidized insurance (which doesn't cover abortions), then use the money she saves to pay for an abortion!

If you absolutely insist that no government money ever supports anyone who gets an abortion, you have 2 options. You can ban abortion entirely, or you can never give anyone any government money. Neither are desirable. This plan is the best you're going to get.

Posted by: Blarg | March 4, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it just great to not be drivl/zouk/etc?

Don't even want to imagine what it feels like to seethe with rage, derision, and mockery like that. It can't feel good. Probably going to have a stroke at an even younger age that Deadeye Dick Cheney had his first heart attack. Its own punishment.

Carry on, loser.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 4, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Those of us not interested in making any statements keep one in the boot and another in the belt.

no need to display them. It ruins the surprise.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Just how much free government food are they consuming?

I know he likes the jet plane and the personal doctor, he mentions them in just about every speech, but I had no idea that they had the chef pulling double duty to feed the immense appetite of a person who is clearly sensitive and aware of obesity issues. Poofy dresses don't fool anyone anymore than Ped's combover (now shaving) does.

they even fed the dog a house made out of veal. Can you imagine? while millions are out of work and miserable.

Make the dog a life size house made from veal. Louis and Marie would be proud.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

6 shooter? What an amateur.

My wife and kids live around with my AR 15 over there on the dresser and my G 19 (a gun with no safety) always right here, heh, heh, always on me. Because you never know when The Threat might seem real...

Meanwhile congratulations to sliowa and the FBlade, I know staying both rational and serious isn't easy.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 4, 2010 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Michelle O. Almost every outfit that she wears she exercises the right to bear arms.


Posted by: leapin


Got to draw attention away from the acres of government land below the equator.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Oh dear. Liberals are offended and afraid again.

someone is doing something lawful that they find unpleasant.

I am so mad I think I'll write a letter to the editor about it.

the last time they were this offended was when I threw away an aluminum can in the paper bin.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Ya know your marriage is over when your husband walks around the house with his six shooter over his jammies, and says "don't worry honey I just want to exercise my right to bear arms". You know?
Posted by: 12BarBlues
-----------------------------------------
Michelle O. Almost every outfit that she wears she exercises the right to bear arms.

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Per manages to squeeze in another of his bizarre hobbies.

Ped, you should demand that all Lib rep's have a constitutional right to abuse thier underlings. It suits your personality. what's better is the nature of the abuse. fits you like a glove.

Nancy claims she knew nothing about it. she also knew nothing about waterboarding. and Rangle knew nothing about his trip. And barry knows nothing about......well about anything.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 4:46 PM | Report abuse

@noa,

First Baker Beach with the gun toters fanning out all over the Beach and scaring the bejesus out of little old ladies walking Fifi. Now, Starbucks who doesn't want their baristas to be put at risk asking John Wayne to step outside with his six shooter. Only in San Francisco would the militia types be going to the beach and out for lattes! What a hoot!

But, it is also threatening. Despite all claims to the contrary, openly displaying weapons is jarring to most people. Ya know your marriage is over when your husband walks around the house with his six shooter over his jammies, and says "don't worry honey I just want to exercise my right to bear arms". You know?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Watch the RKBA become deprecated (way overdue) by its association with red-faced screaming paranoids who can’t handle the changes happening all around them, the race of their president leading the list.
Posted by: Noacoler
-----------------------------------------
So the president is changing his race. Is it to more accurately reflect that he is bi-racial?

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Stop calling people racist when you haven't even heard anything they have said.

==

shut up, coprophage

Posted by: Noacoler | March 4, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

BB,

“However, the Republican party has made exactly the OPPOSITE argument when it comes to giving government funds to religious organizations. Notably that such funds cannot be used to proselytize.

So, the only consistent position is to claim that this plan does not subsidize abortion coverage or that money sent to religious organization subsidizes proselytizing. Your take?”

What you are calling out is “Faith Based” government money. I really do not have a problem with government pulling funding from these organizations. I am of the opinion that faith based organization often compromise their mission by accepting government money. They become more focused on the money and helping rather than their mission statement. I would rather have them do what they do without government assistance. I would also note there are D who support these efforts so its not all R just as is Stupak is his concern over the bill.

Posted by: sliowa1 | March 4, 2010 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Noacoler


Stop calling people racist when you haven't even heard anything they have said.

The democrats say more racist things than anyone.

So wake up.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

millions of Americans ready to walk though fire for him

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Kind of Like John Murtha and Ted Kennedy are doing right about now.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 4:33 PM | Report abuse

RobT1


Why would a democratic commit political suicide if the bill is going to be repealed down the road ???


Also, once the Republicans take control of the House, they can refuse to fund the bill.


The idea that this bill will be a run-away once it is passed is simply not true.

Obama is doing the country a large disservice if he thinks this is the correct way to go.

Obama should negotiate with the Republicans - come up with a bill that everyone can agree with - that bill will survive - otherwise, Obama is just dragging out this battle.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Oh darn. the march 17 deadline has already been pronounced dead. these guys are real slow learners.

now Peloony says she may have something together after Easter. Once that rolls around another due date will ensue.

Is barry doing this because he can do nothing else but golf and teleprompter?

We are looking at May or June for the ultimate realization of failure. By then everyone in the country will understand that Libs are worthless and they will go on summmer break, already decided on voting out the loons.

voters made up their minds faster than barry can pick a dog. Or a church (still pending). anyone know a hateful, anti american church in the DC area?

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Did you hear what passes for militia here? From yesterday: Starbucks has decided that the guns-on-their-thighs "open carry" folks can come into Starbucks, sit at the little tables, and have their lattes and muffins. Apparently, the gunmen have been educating the customers on the merits of carrying weapons. Some of the education has been conducted at loud volumes. Customers have complained.
 
==
 
This is some serious sh|t.  To protect its customers from murder by clinically paranoid and indisputably dangerous people, Starbuck’s has to endure intimidation that will drive away customers.  Who wants to come in to buy coffee around a bunch of obvious lunatics, visibly armed with lethal weapons?  Yeah, call it freedom if you enjoy lying so much, but anywhere else in the world where there is no fetish around firearms it’d be more accurately called terrorism.  
 
Matter of time before these sick yahoos force the issue of the RKBA, moving public sentiment in the direction of the most important freedom of civilization, without which it cannot function: the freedom to turn one’s back on a stranger without being assaulted.  Watch the RKBA become deprecated (way overdue) by its association with red-faced screaming paranoids who can’t handle the changes happening all around them, the race of their president leading the list.

Posted by: Noacoler | March 4, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

shrink2, when displayed prominently, an unloaded gun is more than a hunk of metal -- it's also a status symbol. "I have this gun to prove that I have this gun." I reckon the folk carrying them are less interested in putting a bullet in someone than they are in loudly exclaiming their gun ownership and support for (insert political cause here).

I like that we've seen replies to this post saying both "The American people have said they want health care fixed!" and "The American people have said they don't want health care to change at all!" And the hilarious part is that both statements are true. The American people are a bipolar lot.

Posted by: GJonahJameson | March 4, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

holstered guns (unloaded we hope)

You are joking, right?
An unloaded gun is just a hunk of metal.
What are they supposed to do if they feel threatened by a Statisticlibarista, just throw it at her?

Posted by: shrink2 | March 4, 2010 4:15 PM
-----------------------------------
Joking? About being unloaded? No, apparently the laws here allow you to carry a weapon openly as long as the ammo is a few inches away. Some goon was explaining to the reporter that he could lock, load AND shoot in 2.1 seconds. Impressive, no?

There are about a hundred of these guys/gals roaming around the eateries and parks, looking for "educational opportunities".

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

FairlingtonBlade


Take your condescending attitude and stuff it. You never know what you are talking about.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

millions of Americans ready to walk though fire for him

Posted by: Noacoler
------------------------------------------

If they can wait for 2013 and keep that fire from going out. woo...wooo

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

The thing is right now due to various reasons, retirements, death, the Democrats don't have enough votes to pass the Senate verision of Obamcare if everyone voted the same way they did for the House version of Obamacare. So Pelosi has to talk a couple of those 39 Democrats who voted against Obamacare in the House originally to now support it. Probably more than a few since they'll probably lose some of the Stupak group. Those 39 Democrats have never voted in favor of Obamacare and therefore they have the most to lose in 2010, since most represent competive districs, and so don't fall into the Obama argument of you've already paid the price for voting for this plan so why not go ahead and vote for it again. With the unpopularity of Obamacare any Democrat voting for this bill who represents a competitive or even not so competitive (see Massachusetts) district will be committing political suicide.

Posted by: RobT1 | March 4, 2010 4:21 PM | Report abuse

"Sebelius also told ABC's "Good Morning America" that there will be no federal funding for abortion.

This bill does not change the status quo on abortion, she said."


______________________________


This is a COMPLETE LIE BY OBAMA'S PEOPLE


LOOK AT PAGES 2069-2078 OF THE SENATE HEALTH CARE BILL.


Obama is a LIAR.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

@sliowa - Money is, ultimately, fungible. You can give someone a SNAP (formerly food stamps) benefit of $200/month and specify it be spent on whole grain, heart healthy, foods. No booze or cigs allowed. That doesn't stop that person from spending money they might have otherwise spent on food on such luxuries.

Presumably, plans without such services should be eligible for government subsities. I would argue that plans with such services be allowed as unsubsidized plans in the health exchanges. No govt. funds involved.

Now here's the interesting question. The Republican argument as I understand it is that a plan with such services in the pool, but with no subsidy for such coverage indirectly provides a subsidy for abortion. However, the Republican party has made exactly the OPPOSITE argument when it comes to giving government funds to religious organizations. Notably that such funds cannot be used to proselytize.

So, the only consistent position is to claim that this plan does not subsidize abortion coverage or that money sent to religious organization subsidizes proselytizing. Your take?

Unfortunately, 37th is a hopeless case. If you dare to disagree with it, you'll be called any number of names.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | March 4, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

holstered guns (unloaded we hope)

You are joking, right?
An unloaded gun is just a hunk of metal.
What are they supposed to do if they feel threatened by a Statisticlibarista, just throw it at her?

Posted by: shrink2 | March 4, 2010 4:15 PM | Report abuse

What a laff riot.  Obama is about to score a real big one that will axe away a lot of the frustration with the glacial pace of achievement, and a bill that will have millions of Americans ready to walk though fire for him, because they’re not going to face ruin as soon as someone in their families gets sick.
 
And make no mistake, the trolls know this, which is why they’re popping blood vessels right and left, and why they’re tossing out one IDIOTIC distraction after another .. procedure quibbles, arch threats about abortion, various unhinged expressions of hysteria, and of course, that heaviest of hitters, the goobers’ opiate of choice, the          BIG BACKLASH to come.
 
Suck it up, losers.  Your side lost. 

Posted by: Noacoler | March 4, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

@PRRWRITER: The lies and disinformation you provided in your comment only serve to prove that you are either paid by the republican national committee or the insurance industry. Both are pretty much the same thing, anyways. First, the polls show that most Americans support healthcare reform. Second, both the Senate and House bills do not have “trillions” of dollars of deficit spending – they actually reduce the deficit over time. We do not have “$100 trillion plus” in unfunded liabilities. Where do you get these crazy figures? Moreover, we had a surplus until the republicans gave tax cuts to the rich and started two unfunded wars. But keep spewing your lies about a bill that will save lives and money. Maybe the next republican president can start another war and you can be happy again.

Posted by: fletch512 | March 4, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse

37th,

You distract from your argument by calling someone a liar. Blarg is extremely nice and astute blogger here. While I do not always agree with him, I respect his opinions since he is well reasoned and civil.

Posted by: sliowa1 | March 4, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Did you hear that the Sheriff in Bossier Parish, Louisiana is arming a MILITIA ??

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 4:00 PM
-------------------------------
Finally, something I can respond to. I did hear that. They're ready down there, aren't they.

Did you hear what passes for militia here? From yesterday: Starbucks has decided that the guns-on-their-thighs "open carry" folks can come into Starbucks, sit at the little tables, and have their lattes and muffins. Apparently, the gunmen have been educating the customers on the merits of carrying weapons. Some of the education has been conducted at loud volumes. Customers have complained.

[Irony alert]
Starbucks reason: they don't want to ask their employees to confront a gunman and thereby potentially putting the employee at risk. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's what the customers have been saying.

The open carry types have been gracing local restaurants, parks and now Starbucks with their holstered guns (unloaded we hope).

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

sliowa1


Blarg - you are either a liar - or you have been fooled by a bunch of liars.


WHAT IS CLEAR:


Obama can NOT be trusted.

And a national debate concerning a major government programs should NOT be conducted under the cloud of such lies.

What else is in the bill that we have been lied to about ?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Blarg,

“Plans that cover abortion are required to fund it through private premiums, not public money. The Senate plan does not provide any public funding for abortion.”

The wall between private premiums and public money is not all that clear. People get around those barriers all the time. This is why Stupak has opposed the Senate version he wants a solid wall. If the wall between public and private money was so apparent, why did not the Senate version reject the House version of the bill?

Posted by: sliowa1 | March 4, 2010 4:01 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Did you hear that the Sheriff in Bossier Parish, Louisiana is arming a MILITIA ??

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Who is Barry? Barrack Obama. What is a Lib? A liberal, a neocom statist. Who brings a .45 to a political rally? Someone that doesn’t own an I-Pod. Who votes for people to simple to undestand basic policy concepts? The Joe Biden clan. Where were all the budget hawks in 2003? Not in DC. Why do we think Social Security is communism? Because it is associated with failing and bankruptcy like communism. Why does your Senator have the exact health plan he says is communist and you can't have? He is an elitist. What have we become? Progressives.
Posted by: bob29

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

PRRWRITER


Great point - what is going to happen to the States' budgets when Obama gets his health care bill.


Obama promised NO increases in taxes to people earning less than $250 K - but if the states increase taxes on account of Obama, that makes Obama a liar, again.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Don't worry about the abortion language.

Jakey's in his garage, right now, cleaning the ole Winchester and loading up his ammo belt, ready to take action the MINUTE this legislation is passed.

He's got his camo suit on order from Landsend, his lil headlamp from REI, army boots from his mom, and when the shipments come in, he's READY.

I don't expect we'll be hearing a word from Jakey on this blog then. We might be hearing about him in the NEWS. I mean, revolutionaries -- wait, patriots -- don't spend all day blogging, do they? When do they get to SHOOT?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | March 4, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

shrink2 in reference to your post at 2:56.


Another unfortunate turn-of-phrase from you


It appears YOU have RACIST MOTIVES FOR YOUR SOCIALISM.


Sounds like you might agree with Michele Obama.


Case closed.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 3:51 PM | Report abuse


It is time for the President & Congress to act and stop acting. The theater of medical personnel in white coats not even theirs is nauseous! The American people in the main are fed up with such attempts by Obama to tell them so impolitely they should sit down and shut up.HE KNOWS BEST!

MA,VA,NJ AND EVERY POLL OF THE VOTERS, A MAJORITY SAY NO TO HEALTH CARE REFORM AS PRESENTLY CONSTITUTED:
Trillions of dollars in added deficit spending. Which must be paid by our tax dollars.

Trillions of dollars in unfunded Federal mandates for the states.Which must be paid by our tax dollars.

$100 trillion plus in unfunded Medicare liabilities, unfunded Social Security liabilities, National Debt and future debt from bills already enacted by Congress. Which must be paid by our tax dollars.

Fatal flaws beyond unfunded state mandates & deficit spending in the Medicare Reform Act (Senate or House Version):
Medicare access for ALL foreigners (40 + million) in the USA legal or illegal (defacto with no verification enforcement) without corresponding access for Americans abroad AND NO MEDICARE ACCESS FOR AMERICANS ABROAD LET ALONE THE DENIAL OF COVERAGE FOR AMERICANS PRESENTLY ENROLLED IN MEDICARE FOR VARIOUS TREATMENTS AND DRUGS NOT COVERED.
Political payoffs for unions built into the bill (SEI in particular).
No legal liabilities for any medical person or institution EXCEPT doctors for errors, omissions or incompetence. 20% lower reimbursement rates for doctors. A current growth rate in numbers of practicing doctors of 1% AND WE EXPECT THEM TO HANDLE AN INCREASE IN PATIENT LOAD OF 10-15%!

Couple all of the above with 20% unemployment and underemployment and the higher taxes represented by the above. Corporations are inanimate objects and do not pay taxes. Their customers(we taxpayers) pay the taxes hiidden in the price charged for the goods and services.

You expect the voters to have amnesia when they cast their ballots????

LOL ON REELECTION IN NOVEMBER CONGRESS.

3/4/2010 10:29:19 AM

Posted by: PRRWRITER | March 4, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Blarg


Please don't be an idiot Pages 2069-2078 of the Senate Health Care bill provided Federal funding for abortions.

Don't be a liar -

We are giving the exact page numbers of the bill.

What is wrong with you???

Obama is a LIAR - OBAMA SHOULD BE IMPEACHED FOR LYING TO CONGRESS.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 3:44 PM | Report abuse

thank you blert


We should repeal the free trade deals too


They have wrecked our economy

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 3:42 PM | Report abuse

But Milbank makes an important point. “It’s worth noting,” he wrote in a Post chatroom discussion, “that nobody seems to be questioning the argument itself . . . which I take to be a good sign.”

I don’t know what he means by “good sign.” Good for Obama? Emanuel? The country? But Milbank is right that no one’s disputing his basic point: Obama and his sycophants are the problem.

If reports are to be believed, Emanuel wanted Obama to be less ambitious ideologically but more aggressive politically. Emanuel likes winning, and so he thinks the president should pick battles he can win. Emanuel opposed the idea of shutting down Guantanamo Bay within a year. He argued that Obama should have gone for a smaller, more digestible health-care bill that expanded coverage and attracted bipartisan support. He offered similar advice on a cap-and-trade bill. But on these and other issues, Obama opted to follow the lead of ideologically committed House liberals.

No surprise that Emanuel’s most politically formative years were spent as a Clinton strategist. Yet Obama has indicated that he never considered the Clinton model appropriate or appealing. He wants to be “transformative” like Ronald Reagan. But such a transformation requires an electorate willing to be and capable of being transformed. Obama and his acolytes misread the public; they thought voters were as worshipful as they were.

Beyond the disloyalty of it and all that, the real reason the Milbank column has enraged so many left-wing bloggers and liberal columnists is that Emanuel’s understanding of the political landscape puts him in the reality-based community. And that is a community the Obama cult refuses to join.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Who is Barry? What is a Lib? Who brings a .45 to a political rally? Who votes for people to simple to undestand basic policy concepts? Where were all the budget hawks in 2003? Why do we think Social Security is communism? Why does your Senator have the exact health plan he says is communist and you can't have? What have we become?

Posted by: bob29 | March 4, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

The Utah Judge, the Louisiana Purchase, the Florida Medicare give-away, the Nebraska cornhusker deal.
HOW MUCH MORE SLIMY CAN OBAMA BE ????

Posted by: 37thand0street
-------------------------------------------
The only way you could be slimy to libs, that would attract condemnation, is if you misspell potato.

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Clinton and the free trade cronies passed NAFTA in the 1990s over strong public objection, arguing that once people saw what free trade would do, they would be happy with the treaty.

Now that people have seen what free trade has done to our economy, I wonder how many would reverse their opinions and support what NAFTA and other agreements have done, or would the reversals be the other way around?

The idea that Americans don't know what the health insurance reform will do is just silly. We know that it will impose penalties for not having insurance, taxes for having insurance, taxes generally, cuts to Medicare, etc. And all for what? To provide insurance to about 10 million Americans who want insurance but currently don't have it. The rest of the uninsured are illegal aliens, poor who are already eligible for Medicaid but choose not to sign up, and young people who opt not to pay for insurance because it simply doesn't make financial sense for them to do so at their age. On top of this, the bill is full of sweet deals for just about every special interest that could possibly have a finger in the pie.

Americans know what is in this bill, and the majority don't like it. Passing the bill isn't going to change that, especially since for most Americans, it will not improve their existing health insurance, but will simply add to their tax burden.

Posted by: blert | March 4, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

shrink2 in reference to your post at 2:56.


Another unfortunate turn-of-phrase from you


It appears YOU have RACIST MOTIVES FOR YOUR SOCIALISM.

Sounds like you might agree with Michele Obama.


Case closed.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

This is a COMPLETE LIE BY OBAMA'S PEOPLE
LOOK AT PAGES 2069-2078 OF THE SENATE HEALTH CARE BILL.
Obama is a LIAR.
.
Posted by: 37thand0street
-------------------------------------------
Obama is widely accepted a liar or certainly as at least someone that doesn’t keep his promises by both conserves and libs. However he keeps it up because he knows that his base totally accepts it (thoroughly demonstrating a lack of self-respect). They are buying the gas guzzler that the world’s most notorious lying used car salesman has placed before them saying that it sips gas.

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 3:20 PM | Report abuse

The Senate health plan explicitly states that health plans are not required to cover abortion, except in cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother. Plans that cover abortion are required to fund it through private premiums, not public money. The Senate plan does not provide any public funding for abortion.

Source:
http://blog.faithinpubliclife.org/2010/03/facts_are_important_in_the.html

Posted by: Blarg | March 4, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

37th IS A LIAR!

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 4, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

shrink2 in reference to your posting at 2:56


Another unfortunate turn-of-phrase from you


It appears YOU have RACIST MOTIVES FOR YOUR SOCIALISM.

Sounds like you might agree with Michele Obama.


Case closed.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

I thought the topic had been changed to jobs about a month ago.


It is just so hard to keep up with all the failures of this Present ident.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Focus - the topic is healthcare. Not name calling. Not getting one up. It really is about saving lives. At some point the adults have to stand-up and start doing the hard work to make sure this country keeps leading and not just being the butt of jokes. We are Americans - this is something we can do.

Posted by: 4LifeAnew | March 4, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Maybe HE has SOCIAL motives for his RACINESS.

Posted by: JakeD3 | March 4, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

shrink - could you please post a list of words that are no longer permitted in the modern PC english language.

We know you Libs really love freee speech and free love and open minds and all that, but it seems that certain speech is really a no no. If we could be taught to rename certain words, like liberals, I mean Progressives of course, do, then we would not have these issues.

for example, I am down with choice means abortion, that warming is cooling, that reconciliation is now called up or down vote, that war is now global overrseas operations, that terrorists are now referred to as isolated extremists, that deficits are now government intiatives, that taxes are to be called fees and so forth.

Can you please provide a complete list. I would not want to make racist remarks about the size of someone's ears. Ooops. I did it again.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

shrink2


Another unfortunate turn-of-phrase from you


It appears YOU have RACIST MOTIVES FOR YOUR SOCIALISM.


Case closed.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Comprehending Street Corner is only possible after a few stiff drinks.

Posted by: JakeD3 | March 4, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

The right thing to do here is pass the bill.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that the Republicans are running scared, and should be? Democrats, even in conservative leaning states, such as Indiana or Nebraska, have a golden opportunity to point at the Republicans and tell their constituents who obstructed the legislation, as if anyone needed prompting. Only a 'retard' doesn't know who has stopped legislation. (Sorry. Had to use it. With all the silly controversy on that word it just popped out.)

The troglodytes on the wrong side of these debates should respectfully be made to look like the raving idiots they seem to be. They Are!

Posted by: agrossman1 | March 4, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"Sebelius also told ABC's "Good Morning America" that there will be no federal funding for abortion.

This bill does not change the status quo on abortion, she said."


______________________________

This is a COMPLETE LIE BY OBAMA'S PEOPLE

LOOK AT PAGES 2069-2078 OF THE SENATE HEALTH CARE BILL.

Obama is a LIAR.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

"...this administration...hope they don't get lynched..."

Oh lookee, another unfortunate turn of phrase from a Republican, the Party that has embraced America's downwardly mobile bigots.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 4, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

At this point, the bill itself almost isn't the issue anymore. It's the amount of time the federal govt is devoting (and to a lesser extent, the tactics that have been employed) to getting it passed. Irregardless of the pros or cons of the legislation itself, a great many voters seem to have a better grasp of basic mathematics than the WH or Congress. To them, the math is simple:

1) Amount of time spent on healthcare by Washington politicians - a year and counting.

2) Amount of sustained time spent on job creation and deficit reduction - a few weeks at best

3) What's more important, healthcare or jobs/deficit reduction - it's not even close, jobs/deficit reduction

This is the kind of math that gets people thrown out of office. And the longer the healthcare tussle dominates Congress's agenda and the media's attention, the worse the math gets.

Posted by: mbcnewspaper | March 4, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

The “larger issue” is not about "vulnerable Democrats in the House and Senate." It's about us, the American People. The folks who have lost their jobs and healthcare coverage all in one swipe.

Pick one A) Pay for a healthcare bill or B) continue to pay for people who need critical care and have no insurance.

If you have never gone without healthcare, let me tell you - your life changes. Did you know that a broken bone can costs thousands of dollars to reset? Did you know that you have to see a specialist to do it (chances are your regular doctor is forbidden to do it).

We, the American People, need something that works for us. I would love to have the healthcare afforded to every member of Congress. Did you know that Congress has healthcare for life – no matter how long they serve, or how they leave office. Stop the rhetoric, stop the bickering, stop the BS. Americans are dying here at home everyday and they don’t have to - this is sinful. Yes, healthcare is very, very expensive and Americans are worth it! Pass the darn bill and let’s alleviate some of the worries for families.

Posted by: 4LifeAnew | March 4, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Pass the Bill ASAP.
80% of the public doesn’t understand the bill because there has never been ONE bill to understand. It will be, at least, more difficult for the Republicans to make up lies about the reform once it becomes law.
Posted by: erik1
------------------------------------------
It's not difficult to make up lies, however, having an actual bill will make it easier to expose the truth.

The voluminous pages of the bill are like the “fine print” in a contract. It is placed there by evil men that are trying to fool people and take from them by devious means.

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

erik1


What kind of logic is that

What about Obama's lies???


Obama said in front of Congress - that the health care bill would not change the abortion law.


See pages 2069-2078

Obama said that illegal aliens would not be able to buy insurance under the bill

They can

Obama said that the bill was "fully paid for"

ONLY IF YOU ARE IN THE ACCOUNTING DEPARTMENT AT ENRON.

Obama LIED


Obama LIED


Obama LIED


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

That's typical of this administration ... Pass it first and explain it later . And then hope they don't get lynched or tarred and feathered ! Dems in congress facing tough re-election fights aren't going to buy that canard .

Posted by: lagnafrah | March 4, 2010 2:49 PM | Report abuse

You forgot to say Democrap Socialist.

Posted by: JakeD3 | March 4, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Who knows what is going on.
Certainly not Obama - the answer is Obama is confused - he doesn't know what he is doing.
Posted by: 37thand0street
-------------------------------------------
He doesn’t know what he is doing according to traditional wisdom and common sense. But he does know what he is doing according to his dream of Soviet Union lite driven by his narcissistic personality. He not only asks dem pols to sacrifice their jobs to glorify his ego but asks all Americans to sacrifice their jobs through attrition in a failed economy.

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Pass the Bill ASAP.

80% of the public doesn’t understand the bill because there has never been ONE bill to understand. It will be, at least, more difficult for the Republicans to make up lies about the reform once it becomes law.

Posted by: erik1 | March 4, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Rep. Matheson's spokeswoman, Alyson Heyrend called the question "patently ridiculous," saying there was no deal made between her boss and the president that guaranteed Scott Matheson's nomination in exchange for Rep. Matheson's vote.


_____________________________________


Well, the administration is defending itself by saying the nominee is qualified - however does Obama make a point of appointing judges to the Court of Appeals who have NO JUDICIAL EXPERIENCE?

What have been the standards in other nominations? Aren't they mostly Judges from the Federal District courts, and State Courts ???

Are there other nominees to the Federal Appeals Courts who jump over all those other judge positions???

The Utah Judge, the Louisiana Purchase, the Florida Medicare give-away, the Nebraska cornhusker deal.

HOW MUCH MORE SLIMY CAN OBAMA BE ????


Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I like it. Fabricate a rumor about someone and then if they don't vote in a way opposite to the rumor, the rumor must be true.

It's a game everyone can play. Let's see. Sarah Palin promised Olympia Snowe a seat on the Supreme Court in 2013 if she voted against the bill. Clearly, there has been

A

B A C K

R O O M

D E A L

Posted by: JakeD3 | March 4, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse


Margaret Meyers


I don't think your reading comprehension is very good.

Posted by: 37thand0street
-----------------------------------------
Or just plain comprehension.

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

leapin


Combine that with Obama's "catch and release" policies -


Who knows what is going on.

Certainly not Obama - the answer is Obama is confused - he doesn't know what he is doing.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

You out of the basement yet, 37th?

Come on, you can do it.

Outside/sunlight=good.
Basement/delirium=bad.

Posted by: 37thand0streetisatool | March 4, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully the Democrats will not bend from the pressures of Obama, Pelosi and Reid. Their job security is certainly based on making a decision for Americans - Americans said "No" to the Healthcare Reform" at this time!

How any Democrats could imagine passing this bill without consent of Americans is beyond me - it's like placing a noose around their neck if they go forward with this Obama Obsession.

I believe there are many good Democrats in office who will make the wise decision for their country, children and future generations to come.

May God Bless Our Nation

Posted by: annie21 | March 4, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

The individual mandate to buy health insurance might be a denial of Equal Protection.

It is a strange cross between property taking, income tax and entitlements.

It is basically saying that some citizen have to buy something - but other citizens get money from the government to buy that same thing.


So it does not fall on all citizens equally - it is a form of income tax.

This bill is so bad -

The problem with the individual mandate is the government is creating different classes from citizens, taking from one class, and giving to another.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse


Obama has IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES HERE.


Sorry to all the democrats out there.


Obama's behavior has been out-of-bounds. And he should be impeached. This has been out of control for so long.

Posted by: 37thand0street
------------------------------------------
Re: Being out-of-control besides terribly inconsistent...

The president has expanded use of Predators against suspected terrorists in and around Pakistan. Does this mean that we are in a global war on radical Islamic terrorism, and are consistent in seeing our adversaries as non-uniformed enemy combatants not subject to the normal rules of war? However at the same time, the expansion of targeted assassinations does not square with the administration’s past rhetoric and its present interest in seeing anti-terrorism as more akin to criminal justice than war.

In short, we need an examination of our entire policy from an administration that has expanded a controversial wartime tactic without the sort of legal clarifications it insists are essential in operations professed not to be exactly war.

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully the Democrats will not bend from the pressures of Obama, Pelosi and Reid. Their job security is certainly based on making a decision for Americans - Americans said "No" to the Healthcare Reform" at this time!

How any Democrats could imagine passing this bill without consent of Americans is beyond me - it's like placing a noose around their neck if they go forward with this Obama Obsession.

I believe there are many good Democrats in office who will make the wise decision for their country, children and future generations to come.

May God Bless Our Nation

Posted by: annie21 | March 4, 2010 2:26 PM | Report abuse

37thand0street-

Really, get out of the basement. Sunlight is good for the soul.........

Posted by: 37thand0streetisatool | March 4, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

We need Elvis Presley to be in charge of Health Care reform:

A little less conversation, a little more action please
All this aggravation aint satisfactioning me
A little more bite and a little less bark
A little less fight and a little more spark
Close your mouth and vote up or down wont ya please
Vote for Health Care!

Posted by: Carbubble | March 4, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Isn't lying in front of Congress a crime?


Obama could be guilty of that.

This is an extremely interesting question - and it should be a count in the Articles of Impeachment Against Obama (AIAO)

That will work.

Thank you.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Don' bring me down, buzkiller.
I was already shopping for more yachts on the Internets tubes.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 4, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Obama has IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES HERE.

Sorry to all the democrats out there.

Obama's behavior has been out-of-bounds. And he should be impeached. This has been out of control for so long.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

In the Senate bill Pages 2069 - 2078 the Federal Government DIRECTLY subsidies abortion.

That makes OBAMA A LIAR. That means Obama lied in front of Congress in his September speech.


Isn't that a CRIME ???

Pelosi is out there lying about the abortion parts of the bill -


Nancy, if it is not an abortion bill, then why is abortion in the bill ???


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

The health care bill is a sustainable, living wage jobs bill and (unlike the bubbles and consumer credit binges of booms past) a sustainable stimulus package.
The only problem is all that money that will go to creating all that health care will not go to buying something else. But as somebody's granpaw always used to say on the TV, "When you've got your health, you got just about everything." This bill feels good to me, yep, all that money for all that health care - and tort reform too!

Posted by: shrink2
----------------------------------------
Too bad your customers won’t be able to afford you but you can hang out in the clinic waiting room eating food out of vending machines.

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Rep. Matheson's spokeswoman, Alyson Heyrend called the question "patently ridiculous," saying there was no deal made between her boss and the president that guaranteed Scott Matheson's nomination in exchange for Rep. Matheson's vote.


__________________________________


The Utah deal

So I guess if it isn't true, the Rep. Matheson will be voting AGAINST the healthcare bill.

That is the only way anyone will believe him.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Republicans hired Steele to put a black man at the front who would be a figurehead, but stand aside and shut up. Steele took the job to increase his profile and to self-enrich. He had no intention of standing aside and shutting up.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 4, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Margaret Meyers


I don't think your reading comprehension is very good.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Obama is just DISTRACTING THE COUNTRY AWAY FROM THE ECONOMY AND JOBS.


Obama is a complete disaster.

What is going on in Washington? This health care stuff was settled in January - and now we are back to health care in March -


Obama has let the country down.


Obama is elected to office to lead the nation - not just put in a partisan agenda - Obama has a deep misunderstanding about what the job is all about.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

buster5

What the administration is really saying to the House democrats is : YOU are going to lose your election anyway, you might as well vote for health care again.

Obama has got to be kidding.

Most of the democrats are saying - if I'm going down, I'm taking Obama with me.

This is the craziest debate within a nation political party in American history.

Obama is basically saying that he has been doing stupid things for a year, so he wants the moderate democrats to do stupid things too.


Meanwhile, the democrats keep on saying to themselves the voters will change their minds.

The voters CAN'T WAIT to drive them from office.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Just like Karl Rove, I can't figure out why the Republicans hired Michael Steele in the first place. But I also can't figure out why they are keeping him and finally, I can't figure out why he is staying on.
No one takes him seriously.

Can't the RNC find someone who can raise money and organize coherent electoral strategies (cat herding is really difficult, I saw it on TV once, oh you should have seen the scratches) at the same time? For all of Howard Dean's issues, Barak Obama and a lot of other Democrats owe him, big time. Can you imagine someone attributing a major role in the putative Republican Rising! to Michael Steele?
C'mon Rs, do better.

Posted by: shrink2 | March 4, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"Two senior administration officials said the White House is telling Democrats reconsidering their support for health care reform that they will pay the price for their original vote no matter what happens, so they should reap the political benefits of actually passing a law."

Isn't that like Thelma and Louise driving off the cliff? Well, we're in trouble, so let's just drive into the Grand Canyon. Idiotic.

Posted by: buster5 | March 4, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

This job of legislating is the best job most of these Gunga Dim's have ever had... but ultimately it is about doing the right thing, what is best for the people, the citizens. Healthcare Reform is recognized by ALL as long overdue. Should not be about re-election... should be about doing the right thing.

Posted by: Geopolitics101 | March 4, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

People talking in movie shows,
People smoking in bed!
People voting Republican,
Give them a boot to the head!

Boot to the Head! Yah, yah...
Boot to the Head! Yah, yah...
Boot to the Head! Yah, yah...
Boot to the Head! Yah yah yah.. yah. yah yah yah...

Mechanics who can't fix a car,
Politicians who can't think!
The salesman who won't leave me alone,
The waiter who forgot my drink!

(Refrain)
Boot to the head! Yah, yah..
Boot to the head! Yah, yah..
Boot to the head! Yah, yah..
BOOT TO THE HEAD

Posted by: JakeD3 | March 4, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Drivl, switch to decaf,

PLEASE.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 4, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

zouk writes
"Before long you will be able to even keep your clogs on."

Last time I was in Denmark we couldn't find any in my size. My preferred footwear is the Chaco - an open toed sandal. You may substitute hiking boots for your next insult, if you'd prefer to use a form of footwear that is accurate.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 4, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

37th is just DISTRACTING THE COUNTRY AWAY FROM THE ECONOMY AND JOBS.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | March 4, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse

37th & O answers his own question:
"Who cares about your post count?"


You, apparently, given your two responses. Feel free to ignore me in the future.


.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 4, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

bsimon1


I'm really sorry that I am not first on your list - I will try harder next time.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Wow, a lib who does long division. Maybe a Federal reserve candidate?


Magnificent progress simple simon. Before long you will be able to even keep your clogs on.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

bsimon1


Who cares about your post count?

I guess it is OK for the Obama people to employ people to work in shifts to post -


To astroturf this place and other blogs.

But when private citizens spend their private time - it is somehow not legitimate.


How unDemocratic can you be?

You don't like Freedom of Speech do you?


YOU WOULD LIKE TO SILENCE YOUR CRITICS, WOULDN'T YOU ??

Go tell Obama to concentrate on jobs.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Obama is just DISTRACTING THE COUNTRY AWAY FROM THE ECONOMY AND JOBS.

Obama is a complete disaster.


What is going on in Washington? This health care stuff was settled in January - and now we are back to health care in March -

Obama has let the country down.

Obama is elected to office to lead the nation - not just put in a partisan agenda - Obama has a deep misunderstanding about what the job is all about.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

MR. PRESIDENT, CONGRESS: "First, Do No Harm."

END BUSH-ERA PROGRAMS OF COVERT HIGH-TECH TORTURE AND POLICE STATE VIGILANTE TERRORISM.

***
CELL TOWER MICROWAVE WEAPON SYSTEM ATTACKS, TORTURES, IMPAIRS 'TARGETED' AMERICANS: VETERAN JOURNALIST

• Why so many cell towers saturate the American landscape -- urban and rural.

• Weapon system patents reveal silent, powerful attack system in YOUR backyard.

• American human rights atrocities under the cover of national security.

http://nowpublic.com/world/u-s-silently-tortures-americans-cell-tower-microwaves

OR: poynter.org/subject.asp?id=2 (see articles list)

NOW IT'S OBAMA'S GESTAPO USA. WHEN WILL TEAM OBAMA ACT?

• Reporter exposing gov't cell tower microwave torture held hostage to community stalking, police-protected, GPS-equipped vigilante squads that burglarize, vandalize and terrorize -- officially-enabled lawlessness that afflicts many thousands of other unconstitutionally targeted and persecuted Americans.

BUCKS COUNTY, PA- BASED MAGLOCLEN FUSION CENTER: "GROUND ZERO OF A MID-ATLANTIC STATES AMERICAN GESTAPO."

WHY WON'T THE FBI OPEN A DOJ / CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION INVESTIGATION -- AS REPEATEDLY REQUESTED?

http://nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america
OR NowPublic.com/scrivener (see "stories" list)

Posted by: scrivener50 | March 4, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

post count over 80 minutes*:

drivl......... 10 - 1/6min
JakeD2........ 5 - 1/3.6min
37thand0street 4 - 1/4.5
doof.......... 4 - 1/10.5

* post rate calculated as # of posts over time between first & last post on thread

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 4, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Yes, the logic of Obama is : the damage is done, you are already going to lose your election - SO MAKE SURE YOU DEFINITELY LOSE YOUR ELECTION.


Obama is sending the democratic party off a cliff.


In fact, Obama is insisting the democrats get into a TOYOTA BEFORE THEY GO OFF THE CLIFF.


This health care bill is going to be repealed.


As soon as the Republicans take the House, they will act to DE-FUND the health care bill - so all the damage Obama is doing to his party is for NOTHING.


Obama is destroying the democratic party.

Anyway - as the public learns more and more about the health care bill, the angrier they get.


Contrary to what the democrats appear to believe from the polls - when people find out about the provisions of the health care bill, they get even madder at Obama.


This has never before happened in American history - a President who insists on violating his campaign promises - and insists that his party follow him into electorial defeat.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

another fake but true document, the idea that DDAWD seized on this story pretty much discounts it for anyone of intellect.:

Politico is trumpeting the discovery of a supposedly top-secret GOP fundraising document, that includes crude caricatures of Obama, Pelosi, and Reid and much insulting and condescending language directed at GOP donors.

There's a lot about this story that doesn't smell right. Just off the top of my head...


The PowerPoint document is very crude. Its graphics and layout look like something out of a low-rent non-profit's presentation, not what one would expect from a major political party.
A major political party insulting large donors? Who does that? Not even Michael Steele is that inept.
A Democrat operative claims he found the document left behind in a hotel room where Republicans had been staying for a conference.

Really? A document with so much damning information on it is just "left behind" in a hotel room? And the cleaning staff don't throw it out before the room is reoccupied? And it just happens to be found by a Democrat operative? And it just happens to be a fundraising headache for the GOP? There's something hinky about all of this.

While it's entirely possible the National GOP really is this stupid (Dede Scozzafava anyone?), it's also possible that the document has been fabricated or altered. And that Republicans interviewed for the story seem confused about the document and deny having seen it sort of plays into the possibility it may not be what Politico claims it is.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

First lady Michelle Obama said at the School Nutrition Association Conference in Washington, D.C. on Monday that individuals who work in school cafeterias across the country not only educate and feed children, but help to strengthen national security.
That's because generations ago malnutrition disqualified some Americans from military service.

This is how to keep one step ahead of al Qaeda operatives. Combating them by stressing healthy eating in government-run cafeterias is a strategy they probably never saw coming.

Maybe they should put the Bitter Half in charge of the DHS. She wouldn't do a worse job than Nappy the Troll.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

BigTrees writes
"Do the Republicans really think voters will forget they way they have obstructed this process? Can they take a chance on that?"


If past is prologue, its a safe bet for the GOP: voters will forget.

Dems are terrible at managing the message, the Repubs are running circles around them. What Dems need to do is point out that Repubs not only don't want to extend unemployment benefits, they don't want the unemployed to have affortable healthcare. Lost your job, and thus your health insurance? Better not get sick, particularly if it can be defined as a preexisting condition when you get your next job.

A vote against healthcare reform is a vote for the status quo, in which that BCBS affiliate in CA raised premiums 38% this year. A vote against healthcare reform is a vote for the system under which fewer small businesses can afford to offer insurance as a benefit, and where large employers have to pass more costs to their employees. A vote against healthcare reform is a vote for continuing growth of the fed deficit, as Medicare costs skyrocket. If all that sounds like the future you desire for America, vote Republican.

Posted by: bsimon1 | March 4, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

I think barry gave up jobs for Lent.

Or perhaps reading the teleprompter has tunred out to be ineffective.

Is it golf season yet?

He's already answered like 8 questions. Can he back to eating his waffle now?

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/33866.html

On that leaked RNC memo. It's a nice insight into what the RNC really thinks of its donors, haha.

Posted by: DDAWD | March 4, 2010 12:48 PM | Report abuse

didn't you hear? the "death panels" have been renamed:

Barack Obama Network on Evidentiary Health, Education And Death

Most people who have visited, refer to it by its acronym:

BONEHEAD

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

when health care bill takes its final breath, we can thank Sarah Palin. she is the one who came up with the clever term - death panels. that's what killed this bill from the start. older people will never get those words out of their minds. she is a smart woman. no democrat can touch her. republicans need to thank her.

Posted by: doof | March 4, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Yes reconciliation! Yes we can! By Easter!

Posted by: Felipe_M | March 4, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

with this post I can eliminate dribbl's entire reason for being. take the rest of the year off dribbl. no one will miss you.

Sources tell CBS13 a state senator from Southern California was arrested for allegedly driving drunk after leaving Faces, a gay nightclub in midtown Sacramento, early Wednesday morning. The California Highway Patrol pulled over Senator Roy Ashburn at 2:00 a.m. Wednesday after an officer noticed a black Chevy Tahoe swerving at 13th and L Streets...Ashburn, a father of four, is a Republican Senator representing parts of Kern, Tulare and San Bernardino Counties with a history of opposing gay rights.

anytime you can link Repub, gay, drinking, hypocrisy in one article, it is a moonbat celebration. you see all repubs are like this, they just have not been caught yet.

quite the opposite with Rangle. He is the only corrupt Lib ever to work in DC.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

So do AT LEAST 12 pro-life House Democrats who have pledged to vote NO as to the Senate version:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul_90

WOO HOO!!!

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 4, 2010 12:17 PM | Report abuse

doof, I would consider a much more cynical strategy from hopey McChange.

He has seen the writing on the wall and that repubs are not going to cooperate with his leftist agenda. Even his own Libs will not go along. He has no one to blame anymore, the 'bush did it' chant getting too old to use.

his only hope ( a longshot) is to lose both houses in the fall and finally have someone to blame for something - the Repubs. he can then stand bravely against their desire to ram through bills that "no one wants". He will simnply veto everything than claim that he is needed to avoid one party rule, the failure of which was demonstrated under his administration. the voters (meaning the press) will eat it up.

so in order to maintain his tentative grasp on power, he will have to introduce the kool-aid moment in the next election, throw away at least ten Senators and 30-40 house members. all so he can get on with his quest to become emperor of the UN and actually have some job experience this time around.

I actually hope that the Repubs miss control of the houses by one or two seats. enough to freeze the Libs but not take the blame for all the ineptitude.

a frozen government is really the best thing for the nation, especially at the peril of any more of barry's socialist notions taking hold. If we stop the spending now, we may have made a dent in the balloon by , oh say, 2500.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

benniecsmith:

If Obamacare funds ABORTION, you better believe I want him to fail.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 4, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Chris, if it's hard for you to imagine, perhaps you should talk to a couple Democratic operatives and pollsters as opposed to just the Republican ones you cited here. The entire Republican narrative is built solely on hope for Obama's failure, so of course that's what they're going to push.

Posted by: benniecsmith | March 4, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

We are going to get killed. No question about it. But sometimes you have to do what's right for the Republic. Should we moderate out the 64 civil rights act? Should we seek bipartisan support to turn back the Nazis? This whole gamenship just has to end. Is it unopular? Oh, hell yah it is. It's always easier to maintain the status quo. But look, the health insurance system is this country is total junk; it's broke; it is a disaster.

The one thing that will happen is someone is going to win and someone is going to lose. I hear little about the long term brand implicatiosn of the Republican party. What happens if the American people actually end up LIKING the plan in four years? The Republican party will forever be the party that stood against the reform, just like it was the Republican party that stood against the Clinton economic agenda. Their brand was forever damaged by it. This whole debate about "slowing up" "pragmatic approach" and "find consensus" is so similar to the civil rights debate it's gross.
----------


"In the midst of these prevailing conditions, we come to Washington today pleading with the president and members of Congress to provide a strong, moral, and courageous leadership for a situation that cannot permanently be evaded. We come humbly to say to the men in the forefront of our government that the civil rights issue is not an Ephemeral, evanescent domestic issue that can be kicked about by reactionary guardians of the status quo; it is rather an eternal moral issue which may well determine the destiny of our nation in the ideological struggle with communism. The hour is late. The clock of destiny is ticking out. We must act now, before it is too late."

Martin Luther King Jr.

Posted by: AriHinkelberger | March 4, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

37thand0street:

Stopping the Senate version is NOT a bad thing.

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 4, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

The "joker" picture with Obama - that idea was first used with a picture of Bush.

NO ONE ever complained on the front page of the Washington Post about that.

Now all of a sudden it is racist.

I don't think so.

Sorry - but the Washington Post should investigate how the anti-war democrats portrayed President Bush - and compare that to how Obama has been treated.

The Washington Post would easily find that President Bush was treated far far worse in the posters and depictions.

Sorry - but this point is not valid and really is a joke.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

The health care bill is a sustainable, living wage jobs bill and (unlike the bubbles and consumer credit binges of booms past) a sustainable stimulus package.

The only problem is all that money that will go to creating all that health care will not go to buying something else. But as somebody's granpaw always used to say on the TV, "When you've got your health, you got just about everything." This bill feels good to me, yep, all that money for all that health care - and tort reform too!


Posted by: shrink2 | March 4, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Jake


I have no idea why the democrats are going down the abortion road with the health care bill.

Nancy Pelosi gets up there and says this is not an abortion bill.

So why do the democrats insist on putting the abortion issue INTO the bill.

The abortion issue may end up stopping the whole thing,


Abortion is a micro-study of the over-reaching the democrats are doing with this bill - a much much smaller bill would have been passed a long time ago.

Bad idea.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Did I mention that AT LEAST 12 pro-life House Democrats have pledged to vote NO as to the Senate version?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul_90

WOO HOO!!!

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 4, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Milbank argued that Rahm Emanuel, Obama's profane and hard-nosed chief of staff, was the only thing keeping the Obama presidency from completely unraveling. Politico summed up the Milbank's article by saying the president was otherwise surrounded by "Chicagoland sycophants, and idealists veering the White House dangerously off to the left." Well, today the Nation's Katrina vanden Heuvel takes to the Washington Post to argue that Milbank has it wrong -- Emanuel is the problem:

Keep digging Moonbats.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 12:03 PM | Report abuse


Despite persistent violence and a critical election coming up, President Obama hardly ever mentions the war in Iraq,” Joseph Curl reports in today’s Washington Times, and the news media are largely aiding in this neglect. Curl discloses that “the last time a White House reporter asked about the Iraq war was June 26,” while ABC, CBS and NBC aired just 80 minutes of coverage in all of 2009.

The near-media blackout means that the success of President Bush’s “surge” policy in 2007 — a policy opposed by President Obama and Vice President Biden when both were presidential candidates and ridiculed by the networks as a "Lost Cause" — has gone virtually unreported in the past year. This week’s Newsweek is an exception, with a big Iraq War cover story declaring “Victory at Last.”

According to Newsweek’s Babak Dehghanpisheh, John Barry and Christopher Dickey: “It has to be said and it should be understood – now, almost seven hellish years later -- that something that looks mighty like democracy is emerging in Iraq. And while it may not be a beacon of inspiration to the region, it most certainly is a watershed event that could come to represent a whole new era in the history of the massively undemocratic Middle East."

In other words a success. try to get your mouth around those words Libs. It may be your only chance.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

@EricS2: You make it sound as if Massachusetts voters cast their ballots to deny health care coverage to the rest of the nation. That makes no sense. The fact that Scott Brown beat the hapless Coakley ought to have no impact on the votes of elected officials from the other 49 states when it comes to finalizing the process through reconciliation, which the GOP had no problem with using when it was in power. (Of course, some of those officials will/have cravenly reacted to the vote, but that's not the fault of MA voters.) If universal coverage is important to liberal and moderate voters nationwide, then their elected officials should respect that. If not, then they should forget about it. The Massachusetts election shouldn't figure into it. The idea that MA voters should base their votes on what would best influence cowardly public officials from the other 49 states is naive and idiotic.

Don't blame MA voters if the Democratic Party is too cowardly to pass a bill that ostensibly forms the bedrock of its platform. Blame the Democratic Party.

Posted by: Venicemenace | March 4, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Yes, the logic of Obama is : the damage is done, you are already going to lose your election - SO MAKE SURE YOU DEFINITELY LOSE YOUR ELECTION.

Obama is sending the democratic party off a cliff.

In fact, Obama is insisting the democrats get into a TOYOTA BEFORE THEY GO OFF THE CLIFF.

This health care bill is going to be repealed.

As soon as the Republicans take the House, they will act to DE-FUND the health care bill - so all the damage Obama is doing to his party is for NOTHING.

Obama is destroying the democratic party.


Anyway - as the public learns more and more about the health care bill, the angrier they get.

Contrary to what the democrats appear to believe from the polls - when people find out about the provisions of the health care bill, they get even madder at Obama.

This has never before happened in American history - a President who insists on violating his campaign promises - and insists that his party follow him into electorial defeat.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

At least 12 pro-life House Democrats have pledged to vote NO as to the Senate version!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul_90

Posted by: JakeD2 | March 4, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

They did not say scrap the bill, they said work with him.

Posted by: bradcpa | March 4, 2010 11:52 AM

too little too late. nothing can save the health care bill now. bonus is that democrats will lose everything in november.

Posted by: doof | March 4, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Of the coming vote, he (Obama) said: "I do not know how this plays politically, but I know it's right."

How disingenuous (again).

However on a morepositive note - Barry-O I really like the robo docs yesterday!. Do they sing and dance?

Posted by: leapin | March 4, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Mexico City The visit by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Brazil Wednesday was billed as an effort to forge ties with a country that is increasingly emerging as a recognized global power. But the rhetoric of partnership came easier than the reality. Brazil rebuffed Ms. Clinton's efforts to win support for more sanctions on Iran's nuclear program


Darn, that sweet talk and hopey McChange thing is running on fumes.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

This is the "OH BROTHER WEEK" for the democrats.


First Obama gives a Federal Appeals Judgeship to Rep Matheson of Utah's brother.


THEN Nancy Pelosi gives the Chairmanship of Ways and Means to SENATOR CARL LEVIN'S BROTHER, SANDER LEVIN.


YES, - Carl Levin has a brother named SANDER LEVIN


AND he is NOW CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS.


You can't make this stuff up.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | March 4, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

My guess is the Obama team has some internal polling and this is why they are moving forward with healthcare. Lets parse the Ipsos/McCatchy Poll conducted 2-26-28 after the televised event. First lets look at the much discussed Republican talking point about the bill.


"As of right now, do you favor or oppose the health care reform proposals presently being discussed?"


Favor Oppose Unsure

41% 47% 11 %

Yes it is true that more people oppose this bill than support it, but that is not the whole story. You need to ask the people why they don't support it.


If oppose reform proposals (N=535):
"You said you are opposed to the health care reform proposals presently being discussed. Is that because you favor health care reform overall but think the current proposals don't go far enough to reform health care; OR you oppose health care reform overall and think the current proposals go too far in reforming health care?"

Don't Go Far Enough Oppose 37%

Goes too Too Far Unsure 54%

Not Sure 10%

This is something that you will not here on Fox News, that a number of people on the left are upset that public option is not in the bill. They felt they already compromised single payer away with the Public Option and do not want to give that up. This is born out in the numbers that a significant minority of those opposed are opposed because reform does not go far enough. I think come November that 14.4% (for a total of 58.4%) will come down with the Democrats. Which brings us to the most important question....

"Some people think that Republicans in Congress are working hard to try to find a compromise with the Democrats on the health care bill. Other people think that the Republicans are deliberately avoiding compromise in order to obstruct the bill in any form. Which of these comes closer to your view?"


Trying to
Compromise Obstructing l Unsure

36% 57% 7%


I see a real danger here for Republicans because 62% of Scott Browns voters wanted him not to obstruct the bill but work with Obama to make it better. They did not say scrap the bill, they said work with him.

Posted by: bradcpa | March 4, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Obama Now Selling Judgeships for Health Care Votes?
"He's not heavy, he's your brother."

whatever it takes. Barack Capone is in serious failure mode and needs a change of course.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Press secretary ratchets up pressure on Congress to complete legislation by setting March 18 as the deadline by which a final bill should be passed.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Next they will change the name of something.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

obama doesn't know what to do about jobs. so he stalls and keeps pushing health care. but he doesn't want health care bill to pass. he needs it as cover. when you don't know what you're doing you have to blame something.

Posted by: doof | March 4, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse

The Democrats will get my vote regardless of whether health care is passed. I am a moderate but intelligent. In far too many ways the Republican positions are contradictory and hypocritical. Take the Medicare cuts for an example. It is ludicrous to beat the Democrats over the head for cutting Medicare while proposing to balance the budget by cutting entitlements and not raising taxes.

Posted by: chucko2 | March 4, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Do the Republicans really think voters will forget they way they have obstructed this process? Can they take a chance on that?

Posted by: BigTrees | March 4, 2010 11:32 AM

the voters don't want the process. republicans already won. the chance was already taken and it paid off. health care bill is dead.

Posted by: doof | March 4, 2010 11:43 AM | Report abuse

"Do the Republicans really think voters will forget they way they have obstructed this process? Can they take a chance on that?"

Yes. Both political parties regularly count on voters having astonishingly short memories. And most of the time, they're right.

Posted by: GJonahJameson | March 4, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

I bet another deadline is in order. they work so well in so many situations.

Posted by: drivl | March 4, 2010 11:38 AM | Report abuse

The voters will be sending these politburo types back home soon enough. Then Obama, the other red meat, can run his Kremlin by himself.

Posted by: jhr1 | March 4, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Hey Jessie...the Mass message really was "We got ours, screw the rest of you". Heck, that was a big part of Brown's campaign.

Yay greed.

Posted by: EricS2 | March 4, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

And the alternative is...

- insurance companies rationing healthcare
- insurance companies posting record profits
- uninsured voters forced into bankruptcy to afford healthcare
- additional government expenditures through Medicaid
- healthcare workers leaving the field
- students not entering the healthcare field

Do the Republicans really think voters will forget they way they have obstructed this process? Can they take a chance on that?

Posted by: BigTrees | March 4, 2010 11:32 AM | Report abuse

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