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"Worst Week in Washington": And the winner is...

Alabama Rep. Artur Davis!

Davis began the week as the odds-on favorite to win the Democratic gubernatorial nomination in Alabama -- a step to becoming the state's first black governor -- and ended it pledging that his political career was over.

What happened in between was that Davis was upset by state Agriculture Commissioner Ron Sparks in Tuesday's primary -- an across-the-board defeat that saw Davis lose some heavily African American counties by 30 and 40 points.

The roots of Davis' defeat were based in his decision to vote very conservatively -- against President Barack Obama's health care bill for instance -- while also snubbing his nose at some of the infuential political groups in the black community in the state.

The result -- 62 percent Sparks, 37 percent Davis -- was a stirring reminder that promise in politics (and Davis had plenty of that) isn't much without results.

It was also a telling indication that labeling anyone the "next Barack Obama" -- a title that many had given to Davis -- underplays the uniqueness of the current president's political talent.

Our runner-up for "Worst Week in Washington"? Illinois Rep. Mark Kirk (R) still can't seem to get his story straight when it comes to his military record and resume. Not good.

You can always nominate your own choice for "Worst Week in Washington" by emailing me at chris.cillizza@wpost.com.

By Chris Cillizza  |  June 4, 2010; 4:20 PM ET
Categories:  Worst Week in Washington  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: The rhyme and reason of Sarah Palin's endorsements
Next: Tea party favorite Sharron Angle looks poised to win in Nevada

Comments

"shrink, these bacteria can live in very low dissolved oxygen environments or no oxygen environments."
_____________

Proof? The fake 37, King of Kook/mooned/bumblingberry, etc.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 9, 2010 10:10 PM | Report abuse

Proof that NY Times Readers are Smarter than WAPO Readers-

Today's NY Times Gulf Response Blog-
175.HIGHLIGHT
cannula

June 7th, 2010
12:46 pm
How Can You Tell When A Lawyer's Lying to the American People on the Anniversary of D-Day ?

NY Times yesterday-

"In his weekly radio address broadcast Saturday, President Obama emphasized that the federal government had “mobilized on every front” to contain and clean up the oil spill, and called attention to the plight of some of the shrimpers and oystermen he met while visiting the Louisiana coast on Friday."

AP yesterday-
"With no oil response workers on Louisiana's Queen Bess Island, Plaquemines Parish coastal zone management director P.J. Hahn decided he could wait no longer, pulling an exhausted brown pelican from the oil, slime dripping from its wings.

"We're in the sixth week, you'd think there would be a flotilla of people out here," Hahn said. "As you can see, we're so far behind the curve in this thing."
At the mouth of Alabama's Mobile Bay, hundreds of seagulls squawked on a beach dotted with countless small tar balls but not a cleanup crew in sight.

Recommended Recommended by 31 Readers

Posted by: thecannula | June 7, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

I think we can both speak for ourselves. I am not racist; but I do appreciate your admission that you are racist.

Posted by: Brigade | June 7, 2010 1:12 PM
------------------------------
I know you think you scored a point. Don't be so blinded by competition that you miss the chance to be honest.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 7, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Curious why you're bothering with Brigade, 12Bar, haven't you seen enough? Hope you're nit being starry-eyed and hoping some better nature will peek through. Garbage is garbage.

Posted by: Noacoler | June 7, 2010 1:26 AM
-------

Typical Noacoler post. Nothing whatsoever to say. No intellect in evidence. Worse--- no one responds but Moonbat and me. I'll call you a moron, Noacoler, just so you won't be so lonely; all others seem to be scrollin' past your trollin'.

Posted by: Brigade | June 7, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

If white people were racist... writes Brigade
--------------------------------------
Are you maintaining that whites are not racist? Really?

Brigade, I'll bet a ten dollar bill you are close to my age. I'll also bet that both of us know in our hearts that not only are whites our age racist (to some degree), but if honest, we would include ourselves. Right? Right?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 8:48 PM
-------
I think we can both speak for ourselves. I am not racist; but I do appreciate your admission that you are racist.

Posted by: Brigade | June 7, 2010 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Poor lonely Ped.

Posted by: Moonbat | June 7, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

The POINT IS: ANY PERSON WHO PUT ASIDE EXPERIENCE AND CRISIS MANAGEMENT ABILITY WHEN VOTING FOR PRESIDENT - they were EXTREMELY IRRESPONSIBLE WHEN THEY VOTED FOR OBAMA.


AND NOW THE REALITY IS SETTING IN.


Obama was supposed to clean up Minerals Management Service - which was responsible for the safety standards on oil rigs. Obama did a long review of offshore drilling and said it was safe when he came out in favor of expanding offshore drilling.


Incompetence at its worst.


We have a third rate government in a CRISIS - FILLED WITH AFFIRMATIVE ACTION APPOINTEES.


If you voted for Obama, You are PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS SITUATION.


IT IS YOUR FAULT THAT BIRDS ARE DYING -


HUNDREDS OF BIRDS.


Don't cry to me - if you said to yourself that you didn't care about EXPERIENCE - you didn't care about crisis management ability - when you voted for President.

Everyone told you that Experience was IMPORTANT - AND YOU SAID YOU DIDN'T CARE AND VOTED FOR OBAMA ANYWAY.


THAT WAS IRRESPONSIBLE WITH THIS COUNTRY.

IT IS YOUR FAULT.

.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 7, 2010 2:23 AM | Report abuse

Curious why you're bothering with Brigade, 12Bar, haven't you seen enough? Hope you're nit being starry-eyed and hoping some better nature will peek through. Garbage is garbage.

Posted by: Noacoler | June 7, 2010 1:26 AM | Report abuse

37th/cannula - unintelligible hysteria, carpet-posting the blog

Brigade - spurts of grade-school level insults showing a preoccupation with inebriants, ten in a row sometimes

zouk - emotional illness in the hoof

all three seriously invested in posting here, determined to drive out all others.

It's getting so PgUp is barely enough anymore.

Posting by others is way way down, cillizza clearly doesn't care, quantity is all that counts. He must be the laziest hut-wh0re on the web

Posted by: Noacoler | June 7, 2010 1:21 AM | Report abuse

Well here we are, I made a prediction...

Ok lets have a show of hands…who is surprised there is now waaaay too much oil gushing out of the well head they chopped open, so now they can't close the magic valves on that condom thingy they put over it?

Ok, I see, no one.

Who is surprised this latest fail was announced late Sunday?

Well the Coast Guard (one half of the ebony and ivory Unified Command) is saying they might have it all cleaned up by the Fall.

Show of hands? Anyone?

So what is this? People can't handle the truth? The Fall? Coast Guard Sees Cleanup of Spill Lasting Until the Fall?

Those questions are rhetorical, please don't bother. I'm gone.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 7, 2010 12:17 AM | Report abuse

Strange. Rasmussen was regarded as one of the better pollsters by 538 in the 2008 primaries.

I think we have the winners for the worst week this week. Elton John and Kathryn Rogers. Probably two of the most self-loathing people in the world right now. No?

Posted by: DDAWD | June 6, 2010 11:49 PM | Report abuse

12bar


You have been stopping the blog for a long time,

you haven't noticed?

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 11:34 PM | Report abuse

27th is PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS SITUATION.


IT IS YOUR FAULT THAT BRAIN CELLS ARE DYING -


HUNDREDS OF BRAIN CELLS.

.

Posted by: margaretmeyers | June 6, 2010 11:17 PM | Report abuse

12 barblues


No one wants to be honest about racism - at least I tell it like it is.


In other news, Charlie Rangel is running for re-election.

Instead of being RUN OUT OF OFFICE - LET'S BE SERIOUS, IF RANGEL WAS WHITE, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN OUT OF OFFICE A LONG TIME AGO.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

The POINT IS: ANY PERSON WHO PUT ASIDE EXPERIENCE AND CRISIS MANAGEMENT ABILITY WHEN VOTING FOR PRESIDENT - they were EXTREMELY IRRESPONSIBLE WHEN THEY VOTED FOR OBAMA.


AND NOW THE REALITY IS SETTING IN.


We have a third rate government in a CRISIS - FILLED WITH AFFIRMATIVE ACTION APPOINTEES.

You are PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS SITUATION.


IT IS YOUR FAULT THAT BIRDS ARE DYING -


HUNDREDS OF BIRDS.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 10:40 PM | Report abuse

I had no idea that honesty would totally stop the blog.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 10:06 PM | Report abuse

If white people were racist... writes Brigade
--------------------------------------
Are you maintaining that whites are not racist? Really?

Brigade, I'll bet a ten dollar bill you are close to my age. I'll also bet that both of us know in our hearts that not only are whites our age racist (to some degree), but if honest, we would include ourselves. Right? Right?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

2: thanks for knowledge about the ratings of the polls.

Disappointed that Research 2000 ranked low: I rely on its results for information about BHO's job approval and other things.
-------------------------------------
Generally, we do not see the pollsters ranked against each other. People will pull some crazy poll out to prove something or other, and then you find out it is an outlier. Or isn't very well regarded as a pollster. The ranking of the top ten polls (according to 538's methodology) are:

Field Poll
WaPo
SurveyUSA
Ciruli (whoever they are)
U Cincinnati/Ohio
Selzer
NBC/Wall Street Journal
AP/Gfk
Mason Dixon
Pew Research
Gallup

BTW, Rasmussen is NOT in the top ten, but is 14th. When you look at a graph of polls, Rasmussen is often an outlier, but apparently, they're not as far off the mean as other pollsters.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 8:43 PM | Report abuse

if you have read any definitive explanation of the statistical variance of proportionately more high jumping black men in bb, please share. It will be an entertaining respite.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 6, 2010 7:20 PM
-------

There was a fairly exhaustive study done some years ago and covered by a television special. Very interesting. The conclusion was that some groups of people are genetically predisposed to excellence in particular sports requiring particular skills.

It wasn't really about skin color. For example, blacks whose ancestry traces to certain parts of Africa are predisposed to be more effective in sports where short, quick bursts of speed are a plus; blacks from another part of the continent, the east if memory serves, were much better at sports requiring great endurance, such as long-distance running.

The whole study was pretty much squelched because of objections from the black intelligentsia. The main objection was that saying blacks have a genetic advantage in certain areas may lead to the claim that they're lazy and don't have to work as hard---although it's unclear why they wouldn't have to work hard to compete with others possessing the same "advantage." A more serious worry was that if we accept that blacks are more successful in certain fields of endeavor because of genetic makeup, then couldn't the exact opposite be true regarding other fields of endeavor?

Posted by: Brigade | June 6, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Bells sounding. Alarms going off. Lights flashing.

Brig-ade (aka prison-beverage), your BHO/cotton post has been recognized as the most foolish and racist post of the week.

All the best.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 6, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


Everyone has been telling you for months about the polls


And yet, you arrogantly repeat the results of those polls - time and time again.

You say you are "disappointed." The truth is you have been acting like a complete idiot for months - you refuse to recognize reality - your inexperience, unqualified affirmative action guy can NOT handle the job.

How many times do we have to tell you that before you agree it is true.

Because it is.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

12: thanks for knowledge about the ratings of the polls.

Disappointed that Research 2000 ranked low: I rely on its results for information about BHO's job approval and other things.

Also disappointed Raz rated high. Kos eviscerated Rasmussen in a post last week. He says Raz has a routine where he first puts out an outlier poll to push his agenda and then follows it up with a reality based poll.

Oh well.

Lakers are coming on. Out.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 6, 2010 8:25 PM | Report abuse

I know I shouldn't ask but: just how is the oil spill the President's fault?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 6, 2010 5:37 PM
-----

Same way Hurricane Katrina was Bush's fault. Think, Joe. Think deeeeeppply.

Posted by: Brigade | June 6, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

commentator Sarah Silverman this week called out Fox News as a "24 hours a day racist engine." What say you about this assessment of your favorite network?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 6, 2010 5:21 PM
-------

Sarah Silverman is as big a fool as those who take her seriously. Screaming "racism" as a means to defend a loonie left agenda is no longer effective. It only makes the Obama lovers look ignorant. If white people were racist, Obama would be in a cotton field, not in the White House. I'll leave it to you to decide for which position he is most suited.

Posted by: Brigade | June 6, 2010 8:19 PM | Report abuse

If this was previously discussed, please excuse the repetition. 538 has something really interesting. Pollsters are ranked according to a score that measures the amount of error the pollster himself introduces into the poll.

WaPo has an excellent score. Rasmussen, who we all criticize ranks less well, but actually has a pretty good score. Research 2000 has a poor score as well as Zogby. http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 8:11 PM | Report abuse

@bwj and mark,

It is bizarre that canoli WANTS to argue with liberals. If I had my way, canoli would drop off the edge of the earth. I'd just as soon as drill my own teeth, or run my arm down a meat grinder, as interact with him or 37th.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

12BB, you raised the issue, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but if you have read any definitive explanation of the statistical variance of proportionately more high jumping black men in bb, please share. It will be an entertaining respite.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 6, 2010 7:20 PM
---------------------------------
I'll let you know if I ever learn anything. The reason I threw that in, was that I flashed back to my father, who was Archie Bunker before there was an Archie Bunker. He used to say that about knees. I remember as a little kid gritting my teeth whenever he said that. I loved my dad, but I knew he was wrong about the knees.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 7:26 PM | Report abuse

12BB, I thought, in my youth that more black athletes had long limbs [proportionately] to white athletes. I was a lean 6'2" but was relatively short limbed. Thus, I could run with [not dribble] a volleyball and fingertip it over the rim, while longer limbed guys my height both white and black could dunk, wrist over rim. It just seemed to me that proportionately more black guys were long limbed.

I have not paid any attention to this in years, and I know that the knee is not different, but I suppose some orthopedic specialist to the NBA has long since explained this statistical difference with precision.

The great Jerry West was 6'3" and long limbed and he jumped center in college despite the presence of a 6'10" All America pivot on his team. West played "over the rim" in the NBA, so he was an example of a white man who could and did jump.

12BB, you raised the issue, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but if you have read any definitive explanation of the statistical variance of proportionately more high jumping black men in bb, please share. It will be an entertaining respite.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 6, 2010 7:20 PM | Report abuse

@bwj,

As much fun as it is to dance around and tease 37th, and it is fun no?, seriously:

Regarding the fake controversies, you wouldn't think that with the gusher in the gulf, no fake controversies would be necessary. This strikes me as slow news motivated.

Re the gulf gusher, if it is true that the cap is working somewhat (and I'm not entirely convinced of that), the market is going to be singing Happy Days are Here Again. And so is BP, RIG and the White House. Let's cross our fingers and toes that the story is true (or even partly true).

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

12: canoli and 37 are out to lunch. Beyond hope.

I'm wondering what media-created anti-BHO fake controversy is planned for next week. Maybe: "BHO forgot to flush the toilet two weeks ago." Developing... :)

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 6, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

@bwj,

CORRECTION!

37th sees blacks AND HISPANICS as violent, murderous, criminals compared with whites.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 6:59 PM | Report abuse

@bwj,

37th sees blacks as violent, murderous, criminals compared with whites. If blacks have good jobs, they got them through affirmative action. He thinks that blacks can jump higher than whites too because they have different kind of knees.

37th can't believe that this makes him look like a raging, crazy, KKK-hooded, racist.

Crazy, isn't it?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Broadwayjoe


Clearly - everyone has tried to be polite to you here with your idiotic references to super-liberals - as if that proves some point (who cares)


The POINT IS: ANY PERSON WHO PUT ASIDE EXPERIENCE AND CRISIS MANAGEMENT ABILITY WHEN VOTING FOR PRESIDENT - they were EXTREMELY IRRESPONSIBLE WHEN THEY VOTED FOR OBAMA.

AND NOW THE REALITY IS SETTING IN.

We have a third rate government in a CRISIS - FILLED WITH AFFIRMATIVE ACTION APPOINTEES.


You are PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS SITUATION.

IT IS YOUR FAULT THAT BIRDS ARE DYING -

HUNDREDS OF BIRDS.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 6:51 PM | Report abuse

Fake 37, I know you will be buying Sarah Silverman's new book. Here an excerpt from an article about it:

"In her new book "The Bedwetter: Stories of Courage, Redemption, and Pee" Sarah Silverman talks about racism, outing Fox news specifically. "The entire Fox News Channel is a 24-hour-a-day racism engine, but it's all coded, all implied," she says. This isn't the first occasion Fox news has been called this type of thing (for what I'd say is good reason), but apparently it was enough to make them retaliate this time.

****

"Right-wing Americans who appear in mainstream media are not out there calling black people 'n*ggers,' or saying, 'The Klan has good ideas, she wrote. "Instead, they're questioning the legitimacy of Obama's presidency by accusing him of being born in Africa or of being a Muslim. Or they're having tea parties and calling Obama a 'communist' and a 'Nazi. – Sarah Silverman "The Bedwetter: Stories of Courage, Redemption, and Pee""
__________________

Available at Amazon.com, 37.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 6, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

canoli, we hear you want to seal the well by, gulp, nuking it? Did you get that from that unwatchable save-the-world Bruce Willis movie?

What's that sound? Hissssss. The sound of whatever credibility you might have had just ebbing away.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 6, 2010 5:32 PM
-------------------------------
We tried to tell him not to blow up the well. Even 37th, his alter ego, told him that.

I hope, oh how I hope, canoli goes to the techie blog and writes about his manned submarine with their welding humans. I'll report back here if he does, because I g*d-damn-guarantee he won't. And WHY do I know this. Because, laughing here, OTHER people had the same idea and posted it there. But our inventor canoli isn't going to believe the likes of us. Bwahaha!!!!!!!! He thinks he's onto a hot original idea.


Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 6:40 PM | Report abuse

BHO's MMS had nothing to do with anything. BP created the mess and, allegedly, knew there was a safety problem but ignored it until it was too late. Only BP has the resources and technology to fix the disaster it caused. Blame BP, not your President.
_________________

BTW, your mom has two mayonaisse sandwiches waiting for you upstairs...and a can of sardines in mustard sauce. Enjoy.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 6, 2010 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Broadwayjoe


Minerals Management Service SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLEANED UP - OBAMA SAID HE WAS DOING A REVIEW AND FIXING THE OFFICE.

Obama is completely INCOMPETENT - IT WASN'T DONE.

OBAMA SHOULD RESIGN OVER THAT.

THE OIL SPILL IS OBAMA'S FAULT.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING IF YOU DON'T SEE THAT. YOU ARE PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE TOO BECAUSE YOU VOTED FOR OBAMA - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR VOTING FOR AN INEXPERIENCED AND UNQUALIFIED PERSON.


YOU KNEW PERFECTLY WELL OBAMA WAS INEXPERIENCED AND UNQUALIFIED WHEN YOU VOTED FOR HIM.

IT IS YOUR FAULT - PERSONALLY. NOW GO LOOK AT SOME PICTURES OF OIL-SOAKED BIRDS.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 6:25 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


Obama STILL has no idea what he is doing - and he is doing a horrible job as president.

Clearly, Obama was UNQUALIFIED AND INEXPERIENCED -

And OBAMA REMAINS UNQUALIFIED AND INEXPERIENCED.

If Obama had cleaned up MMS like he was supposed to - like OBAMA SAID HE DID IN MARCH - THIS OIL SPILL WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED.

Obama is pathetic.

YOUR PROBLEM IS YOU HAVE BEEN PERSONALLY IRRESPONSIBLE WITH YOUR COUNTRY BY VOTING FOR OBAMA.

IF YOU REALLY CARED ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE VOTED FOR THIS THIRD RATE PERSON.

NOW YOU HAVE A THIRD RATE GOVERNMENT - IT IS YOUR FAULT.

YOU THOUGHT IT WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO VOTE FOR SOME BLACK INSTEAD OF A FIRST RATE GOVERNMENT

NOW THERE ARE BIRDS DYING IN THE GULF OF MEXICO, AND YOUR AFFIRMATIVE ACTION GOVERNMENT IS CLUELESS.


HOW MUCH MORE IRRESPONSIBLE CAN YOU BE??

YES - THE OIL SPILL IS YOUR FAULT TOO.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 6:21 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues


Your name calling is a little silly - especially considering the quality of your own posts, don't you think?


,.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 6:14 PM | Report abuse

broadwayjoe


We have been over this a few times - and it is obviously behind your ability to understand.

You ask how is the OIL SPILL OBAMA'S FAULT.


Obama was RESPONSIBLE FOR THE APPOINTMENTS OF PEOPLE AT THE MINERALS MANAGEMENT SERVICE.


Obama said in March that he had just done a year-long REVIEW of offshore drilling.

Obama gave the permit TO BP TO DRILL THIS WELL.


Obama took almost a million dollars from BP in campaign cash.

The Minerals Management Service has been in the paper over the past few years has having trouble - SO WHEN OBAMA CAME IN HE SHOULD HAVE GIVEN SPECIAL CARE TO MAKE SURE THE PROBLEMS AT MMS WERE CLEANED UP.

Obama during his YEAR LONG REVIEW SHOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THE PROBLEMS AT MMS.

HOW MUCH MORE DOES ONE HAVE TO EXPLAIN?


MMS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY STANDARDS, SAFETY INSPECTIONS AND ENVIRONMENTAL READINESS FOR OFFSHORE OIL RIGS.


OBAMA IS RESPONSIBLE.


If you don't get that already, 47 days into this, you are worthless.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 6:08 PM | Report abuse

@broadway joe,

You don't realize it, but you just stumbled into the Punch and Judy show. Read posts from the last couple hours. What dweebs.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Cannula and 37th,

Are you kidding?

It's way too much fun reading how you think that BP can't do anything right and the government should do it, and 37th thinks the government can't do anything right and BP should do it.

I think you two fools should stay center stage. Mr. Let's-Blow-Wellhead-to-Hell and Mr. Let's-Blow-Meth-to-Hell.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 5:41 PM | Report abuse

canoli, I know I shouldn't ask but: just how is the oil spill the President's fault?

How does this idiotic fake controversy/false narrative go? What's your "reasoning"?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 6, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse

canoli, we hear you want to seal the well by, gulp, nuking it? Did you get that from that unwatchable save-the-world Bruce Willis movie?

What's that sound? Hissssss. The sound of whatever credibility you might have had just ebbing away.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 6, 2010 5:32 PM | Report abuse

No comment? Enjoy your embarrassed silence while the Gulf suffers and your INEPT choice for President blows smoke on the radio...Bye

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

@canoli: ...having the feds clean off birds one by one would make a nice photo op but nothing more...

@37: You were President of the Harvard Law Review in what year? And you were elected to the U.S. Senate, when?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 6, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Fake 37, commentator Sarah Silverman this week called out Fox News as a "24 hours a day racist engine." What say you about this assessment of your favorite network?

Re the oil spill, fake 37, any chance you'll make the ultimate sacrifice and stick your head in the gusher to save humanity?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 6, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Which is Why I am looking for a Democrat- Noacoler, DrainYou, Drindl, 12Bar, Margaret, you know the crew, to answer on D-Day, the day of great American action-

How Can You Tell When A Lawyer's Lying to the American People at the Anniversary of D-Day ?

NY Times today-

"In his weekly radio address broadcast Saturday, President Obama emphasized that the federal government had “mobilized on every front” to contain and clean up the oil spill, and called attention to the plight of some of the shrimpers and oystermen he met while visiting the Louisiana coast on Friday."

AP Today-
"With no oil response workers on Louisiana's Queen Bess Island, Plaquemines Parish coastal zone management director P.J. Hahn decided he could wait no longer, pulling an exhausted brown pelican from the oil, slime dripping from its wings.

"We're in the sixth week, you'd think there would be a flotilla of people out here," Hahn said. "As you can see, we're so far behind the curve in this thing."
At the mouth of Alabama's Mobile Bay, hundreds of seagulls squawked on a beach dotted with countless small tar balls but not a cleanup crew in sight.

*******
Although I don't like I don't like a lot about him, Bill Clinton would have had AMERICORPS out on the beaches already saving birds, learning how to clean them, and cleaning tar-

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Which is Why I am looking for a Democrat- Noacoler, DrainYou, Drindl, 12Bar, Margaret, you know the crew, to answer on D-Day, the day of great American action-

How Can You Tell When A Lawyer's Lying to the American People at the Anniversary of D-Day ?

NY Times today-

"In his weekly radio address broadcast Saturday, President Obama emphasized that the federal government had “mobilized on every front” to contain and clean up the oil spill, and called attention to the plight of some of the shrimpers and oystermen he met while visiting the Louisiana coast on Friday."

AP Today-
"With no oil response workers on Louisiana's Queen Bess Island, Plaquemines Parish coastal zone management director P.J. Hahn decided he could wait no longer, pulling an exhausted brown pelican from the oil, slime dripping from its wings.

"We're in the sixth week, you'd think there would be a flotilla of people out here," Hahn said. "As you can see, we're so far behind the curve in this thing."
At the mouth of Alabama's Mobile Bay, hundreds of seagulls squawked on a beach dotted with countless small tar balls but not a cleanup crew in sight.

*******
Although I don't like I don't like a lot about him, Bill Clinton would have had AMERICORPS out on the beaches already saving birds, learning how to clean them, and cleaning tar-

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Which is Why I am looking for a Democrat- Noacoler, DrainYou, Drindl, 12Bar, Margaret, you know the crew, to answer on D-Day, the day of great American action-

How Can You Tell When A Lawyer's Lying to the American People at the Anniversary of D-Day ?

NY Times today-

"In his weekly radio address broadcast Saturday, President Obama emphasized that the federal government had “mobilized on every front” to contain and clean up the oil spill, and called attention to the plight of some of the shrimpers and oystermen he met while visiting the Louisiana coast on Friday."

AP Today-
"With no oil response workers on Louisiana's Queen Bess Island, Plaquemines Parish coastal zone management director P.J. Hahn decided he could wait no longer, pulling an exhausted brown pelican from the oil, slime dripping from its wings.

"We're in the sixth week, you'd think there would be a flotilla of people out here," Hahn said. "As you can see, we're so far behind the curve in this thing."
At the mouth of Alabama's Mobile Bay, hundreds of seagulls squawked on a beach dotted with countless small tar balls but not a cleanup crew in sight.

*******
As much as I don't like a lot about him, Bill Clinton would have had AMERICORPS out on the beaches already saving birds, learning how to clean them, and cleaning tar-

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Which is Why I am looking for a Democrat- Noacoler, DrainYou, Drindl, 12Bar, Margaret, you know the crew, to answer on D-Day, the day of great American action-

How Can You Tell When A Lawyer's Lying to the American People at the Anniversary of D-Day ?

NY Times today-

"In his weekly radio address broadcast Saturday, President Obama emphasized that the federal government had “mobilized on every front” to contain and clean up the oil spill, and called attention to the plight of some of the shrimpers and oystermen he met while visiting the Louisiana coast on Friday."

AP Today-
"With no oil response workers on Louisiana's Queen Bess Island, Plaquemines Parish coastal zone management director P.J. Hahn decided he could wait no longer, pulling an exhausted brown pelican from the oil, slime dripping from its wings.

"We're in the sixth week, you'd think there would be a flotilla of people out here," Hahn said. "As you can see, we're so far behind the curve in this thing."
At the mouth of Alabama's Mobile Bay, hundreds of seagulls squawked on a beach dotted with countless small tar balls but not a cleanup crew in sight.

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Which is Why I am looking for a Democrat- Drindl, 12Bar, Margaret, you know the crew, to answer on D-Day, the day of great American action-

How Can You Tell When A Lawyer's Lying to the American People on the Anniversary of D-Day ?

NY Times today-

"In his weekly radio address broadcast Saturday, President Obama emphasized that the federal government had “mobilized on every front” to contain and clean up the oil spill, and called attention to the plight of some of the shrimpers and oystermen he met while visiting the Louisiana coast on Friday."

AP Today-
"With no oil response workers on Louisiana's Queen Bess Island, Plaquemines Parish coastal zone management director P.J. Hahn decided he could wait no longer, pulling an exhausted brown pelican from the oil, slime dripping from its wings.

"We're in the sixth week, you'd think there would be a flotilla of people out here," Hahn said. "As you can see, we're so far behind the curve in this thing."
At the mouth of Alabama's Mobile Bay, hundreds of seagulls squawked on a beach dotted with countless small tar balls but not a cleanup crew in sight.

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 4:19 PM | Report abuse

I have zero confidence that Obama's people can do anything right - sorry but that is just a fact.


I think Obama's people know that too - they have been having meetings for weeks - they are still clueless.


They know they can't do a better job -


Besides the politics is the most important thing to Obama - he wants to be able to blame BP.


Blame BP, say THEY aren't doing enough, if anything goes wrong, Obama can point the finger at them, instead of the people he is responsible for.

That is OBAMA'S PRIMARY REASONING - BEING CONSTANTLY IN A POSITION TO POINT HIS FINGER - NOT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANYTHING THAT HE CAN GET BLAMED FOR.

yea, that is the kind of government the DEMOCRATS FORCED ON THIS NATION.

Irresponsible ? Worse - Obama and crew are RUNNING from any hint of responsibility.


.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

37th- BP is hiring outside capping experts- OUR GOVERNMENT should be choosing who is hired and then be governed by their advice to insure everything that can be done IS done on BP's dime- Certainly NOT everything is being done in the realm of containment- see below

"Unlike his late colleague and mentor, Paul "Red" Adair, he doesn't even have a nickname. But Pat Campbell, the man BP has employed to cap the well beneath the ruined Deepwater Horizon oil rig, does at least know how to talk the talk."- UK Telegraph

NY Times today-

"In his weekly radio address broadcast Saturday, President Obama emphasized that the federal government had “mobilized on every front” to contain and clean up the oil spill, and called attention to the plight of some of the shrimpers and oystermen he met while visiting the Louisiana coast on Friday."

AP Today-
"With no oil response workers on Louisiana's Queen Bess Island, Plaquemines Parish coastal zone management director P.J. Hahn decided he could wait no longer, pulling an exhausted brown pelican from the oil, slime dripping from its wings.

"We're in the sixth week, you'd think there would be a flotilla of people out here," Hahn said. "As you can see, we're so far behind the curve in this thing."
At the mouth of Alabama's Mobile Bay, hundreds of seagulls squawked on a beach dotted with countless small tar balls but not a cleanup crew in sight."

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

The number I heard on the top cap operation is 10,000 barrels in the last day and the range of the spill is 12k-19k or 12k-25k barrels per day, depending upon the model one uses. Adm. Allen also noted that he'd avoid estimates until all the vents on the cap have been closed.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | June 6, 2010 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Cannula


When you say "outsourcing" - are you trying to say that Obama and his people should take over the capping of the well and the cleanup operations ?

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse


How Can You Tell When A Lawyer's Lying to the American People on the Anniversary of D-Day ?

NY Times today-

"In his weekly radio address broadcast Saturday, President Obama emphasized that the federal government had “mobilized on every front” to contain and clean up the oil spill, and called attention to the plight of some of the shrimpers and oystermen he met while visiting the Louisiana coast on Friday."

AP Today-
"With no oil response workers on Louisiana's Queen Bess Island, Plaquemines Parish coastal zone management director P.J. Hahn decided he could wait no longer, pulling an exhausted brown pelican from the oil, slime dripping from its wings.

"We're in the sixth week, you'd think there would be a flotilla of people out here," Hahn said. "As you can see, we're so far behind the curve in this thing."
At the mouth of Alabama's Mobile Bay, hundreds of seagulls squawked on a beach dotted with countless small tar balls but not a cleanup crew in sight.

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

How Can You Tell When A Lawyer's Lying ?

NY Times today-

"In his weekly radio address broadcast Saturday, President Obama emphasized that the federal government had “mobilized on every front” to contain and clean up the oil spill, and called attention to the plight of some of the shrimpers and oystermen he met while visiting the Louisiana coast on Friday."

AP Today-
"With no oil response workers on Louisiana's Queen Bess Island, Plaquemines Parish coastal zone management director P.J. Hahn decided he could wait no longer, pulling an exhausted brown pelican from the oil, slime dripping from its wings.

"We're in the sixth week, you'd think there would be a flotilla of people out here," Hahn said. "As you can see, we're so far behind the curve in this thing."
At the mouth of Alabama's Mobile Bay, hundreds of seagulls squawked on a beach dotted with countless small tar balls but not a cleanup crew in sight."
___

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse



outsourcing

- Also see nearshore outsourcing, onshore outsourcing, and offshore outsourcing.
Outsourcing is an arrangement in which one company provides services for another company that could also be or usually have been provided in-house.-------

AP Today-
"With no oil response workers on Louisiana's Queen Bess Island, Plaquemines Parish coastal zone management director P.J. Hahn decided he could wait no longer, pulling an exhausted brown pelican from the oil, slime dripping from its wings.

"We're in the sixth week, you'd think there would be a flotilla of people out here," Hahn said. "As you can see, we're so far behind the curve in this thing."
At the mouth of Alabama's Mobile Bay, hundreds of seagulls squawked on a beach dotted with countless small tar balls but not a cleanup crew in sight."
___
Contributing to this report were Associated Press writers Holbrook Mohr on Barataria Bay, La.; John Flesher in Traverse City, Mich.; Melissa Nelson in Pensacola Beach, Fla.; Ray Henry in New Orleans; and Jay Reeves in Gulf Shores, Ala.

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Cannula

You have to recognize the reality that Obama's people really do NOT know what they are doing - in their regular jobs much less in a crisis.


You also have multiple agencies involved - and no one is sure who is in charge of what.

The Coast Guard was placed in Homeland Security - so that is why Janet Napolitano is involved.


Then Salaazar is Interior, right ? That is the Minerals Management Service which gave the permits to begin with


MMS was supposed to be in charge of the SAFETY STANDARDA - AND ENVIRONMENTAL PLANING FOR A DISASTER.

Then the EPA is a separate agency on top of that.

So, you have three separate jurisdictions - none of which have expertise in undersea robotics.

Then somehow the Dr. Chu from the Commerce Dept is involved.


So who did you want to take over the operation? The MMS has been completely discredited but they have the most expertise in offshore drilling.

I wouldn't say that the EPA is capable of running this clean-up - no matter what anyone says there superfund experience is - most of those cases spent years in court before any cleanup too place and over the half the money went to lawyers.

That is why - for the government agencies - the Coast Guard is the last man standing - they at least have boats to go out there and move along the shoreline.

The point is: the federal government is not set up for this massive clean-up. -

AND Obama's affirmative action appointees really are not up to the task at all - I don't want want to point fingers at individuals but there are serious lack of qualifications going on.


Fine - put an affirmative action appointee in some office in Washington - but in a crisis, the whole thing just fails to operate at all.

It is a mess - put on top of this Obama who really has no management experience at all.

Obama can sit around a table and listen to reports - but all we really have seen from him is a desire to cover himself politically - Obama has not shown any ABILITY AT ALL TO HANDLE THIS CRISIS.

Wow - I haven't even seen Obama hug a fisherman.

Compare this to Katrina - at least the federal government was moving in two weeks in Katrina - it has been 47 days and Obama STILL LOOKS COMPLETELY CLUELESS.


The media and the political shouting people have been REALLY REALY EAST ON OBAMA THESE PAST FEW WEEKS.

They were all over Bush much eariler - and the federal government was doing a much better job in New Orleans then as opposed to what Obama is doing now in this crisis.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Cannula

It really is not outsourcing - outsourcing is something that a company usually does - and then they go out and contract that function out to another company or overseas.

In this situation, the liability is squarely with BP -


If the US government were to take over the operation, it would have to bill BP for reimbursement - and BP could dispute they are at fault in court - the US taxpayers might not be paid for years - and we have already seen the BP-TransOcean-Halliburton finger pointing game.

The US government does not usually perform this function - so it is not really sending it out.

Yea, we should have an army of people on the beaches ready to clean up the spill - however one can understand BP - when the oil was still out to sea, why pay people to stand on the shore ?

The REALITY of the situation is we have tens of millions of gallons out there - BP is hoping that as much as possible will biodegrade as it is in the water.

Yea, you are right that it is a foreign company - but BP has large US operations - a few years back BP bought Amoco - so BP here in the US includes all the old Amoco operations.

There is going to be a great deal of problems with the clean-up - there are a limited amount of materials available - I dont know how many booms they have - but they have to be running out - even if there is a boom factory somewhere working over time.


All the materials used in the clean-up are going to be in short supply - there are tens of millions of gallons out there.

Maybe it will be easier to clean up the tar balls - which results with the dispersant - as opposed to an oil slick which they usually hose down.


So maybe they have that much done.

I wonder how much it will cost to dispose of ten million gallons of tar - if they have to pay hazardous waste disposal prices instead of burning it somehow.

This project is going to be massive - and the big bills are yet to come.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Today is June 6th- the anniversary of DDay- one our our country's greatest moments- a testament to what the great American Democracy can accomplish.

Will June 2010 be remembered in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida as a time when our Country rose to the occasion of a national threat, created by private industry and facilitated by poor governmental supervision, that was solved by our Federal Government, or will these States and the other 46, rue the day that OUTSOURCING became a strategy that our government used to solve our crises?

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

First- thanks for the link, next- No, i cited a WSJ link from 10:30 Am that made Allen seem much more noncomittal on estimates and Hayward very confident, so I felt that was the latest info-

I'm happy that the cap is working- Wouldn't YOU agree that it would be even working Better if the riser pipe was properly cut flush? After all, there are 12-18,000 BARRELS a day being spilled by best estimates, so that's 2,000-8,000 Barrels still making their way to Florida, Virginia, Maryland and New England until the relief wells may stop it in August- still NOT acceptable right?

Now, you have to write to the other 47% of Americans dissatisfied with Obama today....

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

listen, cannula, from now on you do your own research. I'm tired of citing widespread news that EVERYONE else can find, but somehow you can't. Perhaps you can only find the news that backs up your political bias. Think?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Since cannula has trouble finding news, Adm Allen told Jake Tapper from ABC News this morning:

"The man in charge of the oil spill response, Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen told me on “This Week” that the containment dome has collected 10,000 barrels of oil on Saturday, up from 6,000 barrels on Friday...

What they are trying to do is take the pressure in the well bore and actually produce oil and take the pressure off and evacuate the oil. We’re not going to know how much oil is going to come out until we are able to optimize production and that is what they are doing right now. They are slowly raising production. It was 6,000 the day before, it’s 10,000 now.”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/06/allen-10000-barrels-collected.html
-----------------------------------
If they're lying, at least they all have their stories coordinated.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 12:49 PM | Report abuse

cannula couldn't find the Coast Guard press release about the 6000 bbl captured Friday. Rather than cite ABC news and the other majors (who may have gotten it wrong), I went back to the transcript of the original press briefing, which comes right off the official Deepwater Response Web Site (see link below). I'll quote the relevant snippet below from Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen:

"What they're also doing is they're pumping methanol down in there which is almost the equivalent of gas line antifreeze to make sure they don't form, and slowly raising the—lowering the pressure on the nitrogen cap so the oil comes up and they can begin production. Their full 24-hour cycle yesterday is they're bringing the production level up. They have—they were able to bring up a new 6,000 barrels of oil from the well."

http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/doc/2931/593199/

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 6, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

By the way where is 12Bar on that important 6000 barrel a day coast guard link he mentioned and forgot to site and is now ignoring?

or.....at least one of those famous 12bar retractions- You know like when you apologized for being wrong about misreading my claim that Obama had a DISapproval rating of 46% as an Approval rating-

GUESS WHAT? -

NOW he HAS a 46% approval rating- last Gallup- GOOD NOW MAYBE He'll realize it's time to be a leader, not a critic, and get something CONSTRUCTIVE DONE (did you see that slanted riser pipe cut?)

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

"...we are prepared for the worst..."
Barak Obama, yesterday

Call me a whiner, I don't care, but I do wish the POTUS would stop using superlatives and hyperbole. If he thinks the surface containment effort is all that, he just isn't paying attention. Reminds me of when BP's COO Baghdad Doug declared "we are winning the battle offshore" last week.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 6, 2010 11:42 AM | Report abuse

"Mr. Salazar, for example, assured the public on May 2 that the administration was keeping its “boot on the neck” of BP. Next he was being publicly chastised by President Obama for using antagonistic language." NY Times

I know it seems self serving, but if dropping polls makes Obama actually DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE instead of playing Rex Reed , then DROPPING POLLS ACTUALLY WILL HELP THE GULF!!!

(right you Drindl and 12Bar you?)

Gallup 6/2 - 6/4 1547 A 46 47 -1

Oops- THAT's 46% APPROVAL and 47% DISapproval in the latest Gallup- the other RCP polls were taken earlier-

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

I won't bring it up again, the die is cast.
But this is the first MSM mention I have seen allowing the possibility the dispersant may do more harm than good.

On the other hand, given the lazy, haphazard approach the Unified Command has taken toward skimming...maybe better to sink it into the water column and just hope nature smiles on the greatest ecological perturbation ever planned (unlike using what will eventually be ~2 million gallons of dispersant, cutting down the rain forest was not a decision taken by a group of engineers working for an oil company).

"Experts say the Gulf's marshes, beaches and coastal waters, which nurture a dazzling array of life, could be transformed into killing fields, though the die-off could take months or years and unfold largely out of sight. The damage could be even greater beneath the water's surface, where oil and dispersants could devastate zooplankton and tiny invertebrates at the base of the food chain." WP

Posted by: shrink2 | June 6, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Baghdad Bob says they are getting 10,000 bbl a day now. Should be a pretty easy number to prove, you'd think.

But the fact that the live, oil cam blow-by plume appears to be more or less the same as it was after the first few hours when they started getting oil out the pipe, suggests 10,000, if that were true, is still a smaller fraction than half the total flow they produced when they cut the riser off.

It seems to me they should stop trying to give optimistic estimates of containment in the near future. Do it or not, but after five weeks of this, no one wants to see BP's lips moving anymore.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 6, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

It's amazing that Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen is taking his time to study the problem before making estimates, and BP CEO Hayward, like the Swashbckler he seems to be, just keps making it up as he goes along- in the name of PR and Stock Price-

From the WS Journal-

"Questions remain about how much oil is flowing from the well, especially since government officials over the past week said that the latest containment effort could increase the rate by about 20%, at least temporarily.

Adm. Allen said that the government's flow-rate technical group continues to study the matter, and that production numbers from the Macondo well in coming days will help add clarity.

View Slideshow

Reuters
Tar Reaches the Florida Coast

"Hopefully we'll start moving those ranges into a more acceptable representation of what's actually flowing, and the best way to do that is to get a good flow rate of production because once you know what you are producing every day, that's a known quantity you can take off the table," he said.

Meantime, he noted that winds continued pushing the northern edge of the spill closer to Mississippi, Alabama and Florida and oil is increasingly washing up on shores.

Tar balls have started washing up on the Florida Panhandle in recent days, threatening the area's reputation for clean beaches and emerald-tinted waters. Even as a sign welcomed tourists to Pensacola Beach with the boast "World's Whitest Beaches," cleanup teams have been deployed to scour 18 miles of shoreline in Escambia County.

Escambia County officials in Florida said Saturday that the primary oil plume is two miles from Pensacola Beach, and that a light sheen, three miles wide, is slightly more than a half mile from the same beach."

By the way BP- bad PR not to start paying the Louisiana boaters you enlisted to help in the containment effort!

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

back from Soccer-


"Well said. I dislike oil companies as a rule, for their greed and the way they have us over a barrel, as it were. But it's time to put politics aside, stop blaming, and start facing a national disaster as one nation and hope to God we can find a way to stop this."

Posted by: drindl | June 6, 2010 9:42 AM | Report abuse

So Drindl as a nation we should continue to let BP misrun the show? The Problem with your argument is that G-d was G-d when the oil well blew- so hoping to G-d isn't an immediate answer- we need leadership from our elected leader- hence he political aspect of the discussion- believe it or not WE AL WANT THE SAME THING- the oil to stop flowing- I just want my elected leaders to LEAD and not chastise each others "ANTAGONISTIC LANGUAGE" when dealing with BP!

By the way where is 12Bar on that important 6000 barrel a day coast guard link?

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Tony Hayward's latest attempt to prop up his stock price...

"We're going to clean-up the oil, we're going to remediate any environmental damage and we are going to return the Gulf coast to the position it was in prior to this event. That's an absolute commitment, we will be there long after the media has gone, making good on our promises."

They are already not there when and where they should be and they will not be there one second longer than they are forced to be there.

But the colossal stupidity, saying it is possible to return the Gulf to the way it was before this event through some remedial effort is breathtaking.

Though the word "spill" is no longer being used by anyone who understands what is happening, they are still acting and talking as if there were a spill, as if they had the power to clean it up, just make it go away.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 6, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

"People like cannula are just using this disaster to further their political rage.

I care about the gusher, and anything, ANYTHING, that makes a difference gets a big hoorah from me. I don't defend BP, their cuts, their spin or anything else. But, even if the damn tophat only works ONE BLESSED DAY, it is better than not.

I'm pulling for the GULF, not trying to make anyone, Obama or BP, look bad. "


Well said. I dislike oil companies as a rule, for their greed and the way they have us over a barrel, as it were. But it's time to put politics aside, stop blaming, and start facing a national disaster as one nation and hope to God we can find a way to stop this.

Posted by: drindl | June 6, 2010 9:42 AM | Report abuse

37th, for

CLARITY's SAKE

would you

Define Affirmative Action

Identify some people currently in government you think are there because of Affirmative Action

Explain why you think they are there because of Affirmative Action

.


I'd like it if you were as specific as possible in your reasoning

.

For months you have been blowing hard on this issue, but your argument is as


VAGUE

as it is

LOUD


.

You can start anywhere you like.


Posted by: margaretmeyers | June 6, 2010 7:58 AM | Report abuse


So the same guy (Hayward) who at first told reporters that the spill "was relatively tiny" now tell us that the leaky cap is siphoning 10,000 barrels a day!- F Blade- I can't find coast guard confirmation- I can only find this link from 2 days ago- yet 12 bar claims otherwise- I have to take care of my kids today please check


WASHINGTON (AFP) – A cap fitted over a ruptured Gulf of Mexico wellhead is capturing roughly 1,000 barrels of oil a day, a top US official said Friday.
Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen, the official in charge of the US government response to the spill, said the figure was a "rough total" of the amount being collected since remote-controlled submarines fitted the device late Thursday.
The current flow of oil gushing from the leak is estimated at between 12,000 and 19,000 barrels a day, so the amount is still small, Allen acknowledged Friday morning.
"Production is slowly moving up. It's around 1,000 barrels a day right now," said Allen. Workers are "slowly closing the vents and increasing the flow of oil."
Allen however cautioned the figure was "a very, very rough estimate."
"As you know, this is a work in progress as we put the containment cap on," he said.
Allen said the amount being captured is expected to increase as the vents on the containment cap -- fitted onto a sawn-off riser pipe nearly a mile (1.6 kilometers) below the surface -- are slowly closed.
The containment device has four vent valves on the top to prevent the formation of gas hydrates, similar to ice crystals, which doomed an earlier attempt at containing the six-week old flow.

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 7:34 AM | Report abuse


Dinner was great- fish and foul with no oil- 12 Bar- you are a fool if you think you care about the Gulf more than I do- besides the general tragedy to people and wildlife, I have family in Metarie- go look it up!
The NY Times provided dessert with these paragraphs-

"Mr. Salazar, for example, assured the public on May 2 that the administration was keeping its “boot on the neck” of BP. Next he was being publicly chastised by President Obama for using antagonistic language." see below
"

"After the spill, the government and BP were supposed to cooperate, partly a consequence of laws written after the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill that were intended to make polluters more accountable for cleaning up their own messes.

One example of what was supposed to be a unified front was the Joint Information Center. Housed in a Shell-owned training and conference center in Robert, La., the center includes roughly 65 employees, 10 of whom work for BP. Together, they write and issue news releases and coordinate posts on a Web site, Facebook and Twitter.

But the partnership between BP and the government has strained along with the failure of efforts to plug the well.

BP’s chief executive, Tony Hayward, told reporters at one point that the spill was “relatively tiny.” Federal officials soon released estimates indicating that the spill had far outpaced the Exxon Valdez disaster."

Posted by: thecannula | June 6, 2010 7:23 AM | Report abuse


Elections have consequences


You put in an affirmative action guy - who fills the government with affirmative action appointees.


AND all of a sudden the safety standards aren't being applied and a permit for an oil rig is given by Obama to BP.


THIS IS WHAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE TO THIS COUNTRY.


How many times did people say Obama had no experience - and how many times did you tell yourselves you didn't care - this is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY of all the democrats WHICH LED DIRECTLY TO KILLING BIRDS IN THE GULF OF MEXICO.

YOU SHOULD CARE NOW.


THIS OIL SPILL IS THE DIRECT RESULT OF THE DEMOCRATS PUSHING AN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION GUY WHO HAS LITTLE IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING.

The democrats have been personally irresponsible with this country - by electing a guy with no experience - and who really is more concerned with pushing his left-wing agenda than actually governing the agencies properly.


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 2:50 AM | Report abuse


Elections have consequences


You put in an affirmative action guy - who fills the government with affirmative action appointees.


AND all of a sudden the safety standards aren't being applied and a permit for an oil rig is given by Obama to BP.


THIS IS WHAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE TO THIS COUNTRY.


How many times did people say Obama had no experience - and how many times did you tell yourselves you didn't care.

YOU SHOULD CARE NOW.


THIS OIL SPILL IS THE DIRECT RESULT OF THE DEMOCRATS PUSHING AN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION GUY WHO HAS LITTLE IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING.

The democrats have been personally irresponsible with this country - by electing a guy with no experience - and who really is more concerned with pushing his left-wing agenda than actually governing the agencies properly.


.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 2:46 AM | Report abuse

Anaerobic refers to the process of biodegradation without using oxygen.


Oxygen can be present - however if it is not used, the process is still anareobic.

You all are all going off on this - anaerobic bacteria account for a very little percentage of the biodegration.

There is still going to be oxygen in the environment.

Just because the oxygen is depleted, it doesn't mean it is all gone - the biodegradation will continue - aerobically - only at a lower rate.

There are other factors which limit the rate of biodegration -

In all probability those other factors will limit the biodegration before the depletion of oxygen factors in.


Remember, there are always currents, and the surface of the water is always picking up oxygen if it is depleted.

Nice try - but you all sound like you don't know what you are talking about - just like when you are showing support for Obama.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 2:37 AM | Report abuse

Elections have consequences


You put in an affirmative action guy - who fills the government with affirmative action appointees.

AND all of a sudden the safety standards aren't being applied and a permit for an oil rig is given by Obama to BP.

THIS IS WHAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE TO THIS COUNTRY.

How many times did people say Obama had no experience - and how many times did you tell yourselves you didn't care.

YOU SHOULD CARE NOW.

THIS OIL SPILL IS THE DIRECT RESULT OF THE DEMOCRATS PUSHING AN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION GUY WHO HAS LITTLE IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 6, 2010 2:30 AM | Report abuse

You don't realize what anaerobic means. They can only live in a place where there is no oxygen. If they are alive, nothing else is alive. There is no anaerobic digestion of oil going on within an aerobic ecological system.

==

yeah but those places can be micro environments a micrometer in diameter.  There's been oxygen in the atmosphere for, what, three and a half billion years but still the anaerobes persist.  Seal up a barrel of organic materia, and once the oxygen is absorbed the anaerobic processes begin.  

The bacteria that fix nitrogen living in the nodules of legume roots are the most oxygen intolerant bacteria there are, yet they've lasted billions of years in an atmosphere of 20% oxygen.  

But there is no good news here.  The Gulf is dying.  Entire species are going to go extinct from this, and the worst that will happen to those whose carelessness enabled it will be some fall guys taking it up the dirt road while the executives and the deregulating criminals raise glasses of bourbon and toast the free market.  We'll end up paying for it, already Republicans are circling the wagons in defense of the corporations and showing their quality by calling for more drilling.

Posted by: Noacoler | June 6, 2010 12:23 AM | Report abuse

And that one was floated on the surface. This one, much larger has been, is being, it is not even close to being over...sent into the water, where life lives.

No, they do not know why that is a good idea, they are just doing it because there is no one to say no.

Do you think the whales would have been better off if the oil were in the water, not on it? Who knows? I could make the argument ExxVal is irrelevant, this is something so much bigger and very different in fundamental ways.

"The Exxon Valdez spill of 11 million gallons killed as many as 700,000 sea birds and 5,000 sea otters initially, but even 21 years later, populations of sea otters in areas of Prince William Sound haven't recovered. The Pacific herring population collapsed after the spill for reasons that remain in dispute among scientists. Two intensely studied pods of killer whales in the sound suffered heavy losses in the spill and have struggled since. One of the two pods has no more reproductive females. It is doomed to extinction."

Posted by: shrink2 | June 5, 2010 10:46 PM | Report abuse

Very interesting thread today. I'm sorry I was otherwise engaged (took the kids in the morning and busy with stuff in the afternoon). For what it's worth, Cannula, I appreciate you taking the time to engage. It's much appreciated.

Cheers!

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | June 5, 2010 10:13 PM | Report abuse

How much separation will Fiorina and Whittman have with Sarah?
I can just imagine how her chants of Drill Baby Drill
go over in Santa Barbara and La Jolla. Bring her on. Ca is waiting for Ms Palin 's environmenal positions. How about Vitter; anyone hink he wants her in he gulf Coast?

Posted by: leichtman1 | June 5, 2010 9:31 PM | Report abuse

...and who said "Drill Baby Drill" (Phalin)and pushed for unlimited, unregulated off-shore drilling (Piyush Jindal and friends). Case closed. The oil spill-is-BHO's-fault false narrative won't pass the laugh test.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 5, 2010 1:06 PM
-------

Wanna bet?

Posted by: Brigade | June 5, 2010 8:39 PM | Report abuse

People like cannula are just using this disaster to further their political rage.

I care about the gusher, and anything, ANYTHING, that makes a difference gets a big hoorah from me. I don't defend BP, their cuts, their spin or anything else. But, even if the damn tophat only works ONE BLESSED DAY, it is better than not.

I'm pulling for the GULF, not trying to make anyone, Obama or BP, look bad. They are the ONLY people we have to stop this disaster. Let's at least wait until the damn thing is stopped before we string them up.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 8:13 PM | Report abuse

cannula,

Why don't you float the idea of your manned Navy submarines down there welding? To the flickr blog, because they will get the biggest kick out of that.

You must think we are dumb as rocks here. Do you think you are the first person to come up with explosives? I knew what they would say, because other people had already pitched that idea.

Your ideas are not as unique as you think.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 8:02 PM | Report abuse

12 Bar- I'm not ignoring you- I am just going out wife my wife to make some slanty cuts in some dead bird- or fish (while I still can)

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse

After cannula posted his idea for placing explosives to crimp the riser, the responses were:

hector160 Pro User says:

the cannula.
youl blow it to bits rather than crimping. the risers not made to stand crimping itl tear otherwise the shear could of crimped it.
please dont send that into bp as they just might do it
----------------------------

Petroleum Engineer1 says:

thecannula: the desire to blow things up is almost always greater than it's utility.
------------------------------

Horizon37 says:

thecannula,

Bad idea, PE1 is correct in stating that the urge to blow something up always outpaces its actual utility, except in combat.
The explosive force that would be required exceeds what the equipment could withstand, the oxygen tank scheme could not do it, and the force would just burn up or cut the casing not implode it. Likewise an explosive inside the hole would do the same, you would end up with a crater on the seabed spewing oil out of the center.
---------------------------

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 7:56 PM | Report abuse

I reported it at 11:00 this AM- come on some new material 12 Bar- remember the H. Pylori analogy- wow I guess this is why you support such a tragically inept President through thick spills and thin- what about that slanty cut 12 Bar- NOT WORTH YOUR COMMENT??????????????????????????????????????????
Imagine if it were straight!


The Profit Mongering Fictional Character Bob Jones in the Movie ROBOCOP said HIS Robots could Police Detroit- LIAR!

The Profit Mongering Tony Hayward, who Obama has appointed President of the Gulf Coast said HIS Robots could make a straight cut that would form a tight seal- ask Horizon37 if he is also a LIAR!

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 7:52 PM | Report abuse

Chris, need to add one -- but it is for the entire month of May.

The month of May 2010 may be recorded by historians as the month Obama’s political career was lost. This guy does not, or cannot, ignore citizens for long.

Just look at who he has snubbed during the month of May:

• The citizens of Nashville during their historic flood, and losing 30 citizens!
• Rearranging congressional priorities to bolster his left wing base to assist in November 2010 elections (gays in the military) while the Country is in the midst of a great recession, and NEEDS JOBS!
• Disregarding the Citizens of Arizona in favor of illegal immigrants – no doubt to get votes, and placing US citizens at risk!
• 42 (now 47) days after the oil spill, folks in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida are still waiting on Obama’s bureaucrats to give them the go ahead to protect their property (even the Ragin’ Cajun is upset)! Thought they were going to keep their “BOOT ON THE NECK OF BP”??? *****ABC NEWS REPORTED THAT OBAMA CHEWED OUT A PARRISH PRESIDENT FOR COMPLAINING TO THE PRESS ABOUT THE LACK OF ADMINISTRATION SUPPORT!****
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/05/parish-president-president-obama-chewed-me-out.html Poor leadership is being kind!
• The pathetic Sestak affair with Bill Clinton being the fixer removes all credibility that Obama ever had about ‘Changing Politics As Usual’! That is pretty sickening!
• And the exclamation point to the month of May was when Obama decided to skip the Memorial Day Ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery in favor of taking a vacation – during time of war no less!! SOME LEADER!

Then we moved into June, and it is not looking any better!!

Posted by: wheeljc | June 5, 2010 7:51 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and lastly, speaking of unbelievable, what was the reaction on the flickr blog to your explosives idea? I'll give the chance to report it before I do.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

The Profit Mongering Fictional Character Bob Jones in the Movie ROBOCOP said HIS Robots could Police Detroit- LIAR!

The Profit Mongering Tony Hayward, who Obama has appointed President of the Gulf Coast said HIS Robots could make a straight cut that would form a tight seal- ask Horizon37 if he is also a LIAR!

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 7:46 PM | Report abuse

Cannula,

Or is your point that BP and the Coast Guard are lying about the 6,077 barrels captured on the ship at the surface. And they also reported a certain amount of gas flared off. They are all in a conspiracy together to lie, along with the reporters that are on the ship. You're sure about all that, are you?

If you don't believe what the discharge rate is, and you don't believe what is captured, how do you have enough empirical evidence to even have an opinion?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

yes. And your point is that, what? That 12k to 18k bd is wrong? Do you know the history of the estimates over the last 6 weeks? I do.
12Bar
???????????

THE POINT IS A LIAR IS A LIAR!!!!!!

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 7:43 PM | Report abuse

12 Bar- Since Day 1 SCIENTISTS have been questioning BP's low estimates of oil flow RIGHT?

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 7:36 PM
---------------------------------
yes. And your point is that, what? That 12k to 18k bd is wrong? Do you know the history of the estimates over the last 6 weeks? I do.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 7:39 PM | Report abuse

12 Bar- i go to my BP station and they say this additive called something like Invigorate will make my car have an erection- should I believe that too?

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 7:38 PM | Report abuse

12 Bar- Since Day 1 SCIENTISTS have been questioning BP's low estimates of oil flow RIGHT?

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

30 million gallons in the Gulf as of 5/27 (Boston.com)- another 20 million in by August 5th @ the current rate with the leaky cap improperly fit due to ROBOT error- 50 million or so gallons of oil in the Gulf from the well Obama's administration approved and didn't properly oversee (MMS chief pushed out to sea)

BUSH will be remembered as the C- President

OBAMA will be remembered as the Sea minus President

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 7:34 PM | Report abuse

30 million gallons in the Gulf as of 5/27 (Boston.com)- another 20 million in by August 5th @ the current rate with the leaky cap improperly fit due to ROBOT error- 50 million or so gallons of oil in hr Gulf from the well Obama's administration approved and didn't properly oversee (MMS chief pushed out to sea)

BUSH will be remembered as the C- President

OBAMA will be remembered as the Sea minus President

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 7:33 PM | Report abuse

Keep up with the NEWS 12Bar- NOT BP PRESS RELEASES!!!
-------------------------------
Just where else is the report going to come from? Btw, not that you would believe it, the Coast Guard also reported it. They're no doubt lying too. You have another source for information at the wellhead?

Anyway you want to characterize it, as much as 1/2 if the lower estimate is correct (and 1/3 if the higher estimate is correct) is now being captured. I, for one, am HAPPY that is the case. I don't take pleasure in failure. Let's take a minute, just a MINUTE, to give thanks to God that there is SOME success. Is that too much to ask?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 7:31 PM | Report abuse

My Bad so BP says 6 with the vents open WOW BUT?

Keep up with the NEWS 12Bar- NOT BP PRESS RELEASES!!!

How much oil has spilled in the Gulf?
Compiled by Marino Eccher, Boston.com Correspondent

"A team of scientists released a report that gave their best estimates of how much oil has been flowing since the offshore rig Deepwater Horizon exploded on April 20.

According to the experts' best guesses 12,000 to 19,000 barrels of oil has been flowing into the Gulf each day - that's between 500,000 and 800,000 gallons - making for a total of about 30 million gallons of oil (at 800,000 gallons a day) that have spilled into the Gulf of Mexico as of May 27."

Even Half of 600,000 gallons a day between now and August is 60 x 300,000 gallons of oil- AND YOU WANT ME TO CONGRATULATE BHO? What's that funny laugh you make?

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Correction: Phalin endorsee Nimrata Randhawa (aka "Nikki Haley" (her media name)) is in South Carolina, not Georgia.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 5, 2010 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Real Clear Politics poll of Polls 47.1% BHO approval rating! Bwaahhaahahahahaaha
-------------------------------
Cannula, since you like to strain at gnats. Real Clear politics AVERAGES the last 8 polls. It is not a poll of polls. In fact, RCP calls it an average. A poll of polls is weighted.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 7:15 PM | Report abuse

cannula,

You are not following the news. They took 6000 bd yesterday, per BP. They are trying to ramp it up. 1000 bd was the day before yesterday.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 7:09 PM | Report abuse

Just saw Heyward's new Commercial on the NBC Nightly News-m He DOES look like the New President of the Gulf Coast!

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 6:58 PM | Report abuse

12Bar- 1000 gallons/day- see those plumes coming out of the vents?- 18k spilled a day- so 1/18 is a Democratic half now? That's why you swear to your wife that 5 inches is really 9 and that 46% Dispproval is really 48% Approval- oh, you already apologized for that error, so it's wrong for me to bring it up- but numbers count- like the left wing troll Joe who thinks the Daily Kos's 51% is the same as the Real Clear Politics poll of Polls 47.1% BHO approval rating! Bwaahhaahahahahaaha

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 6:56 PM | Report abuse

@cannula,

Maybe you're not following the news. BP is now reporting that they are taking 6000 bd off the well, and trying to increase it. That means the gusher has been reduced substantially, maybe as much as 50%. Well, that's all assuming it's true, and remains true. Anyway, if you blame Obama for the gusher, surely you'll then give credit if the leak is halved. Right?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 6:46 PM | Report abuse

BUSH will be remembered as the C- President

OBAMA will be remembered as the Sea minus President

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 6:39 PM | Report abuse

I DIDN"T FORGET_ REALCLEARPOLITICS REPORTS A CROSS SECTION- SHOW BHO DROPPING LIKE THE "OIL PLUMES"- NOW OIL IN THE PANHANDLE!

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 6:34 PM | Report abuse

12BB, that is right. Some varieties of both kinds of microbes can eat oil. When they culture in the field, as I understand it, they culture both. When they culture in the lab, as my client did, it is for dry shipping under tight seal. So the lab cultured bacteria are for direct contact with oil or sludge, as the case may be. They will be anaerobic, to live in the pure sludge or thick oil environment while eating. As long as the Gulf around the oil has some single digit ppm of O2, local cultures of local aerobic bacteria can attack the oil from the edge, so to speak.

They are now culturing anaerobics for shale and sand oil to convert the oil to methane.

So I misspoke when I suggested the emphasis on anaerobics. Obviously, when it became "dead" after the Pemex blowout in '79 only the anaerobics would continue to live and eat.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 6:24 PM | Report abuse

hey canoli, you forgot about Research 2000 (Daily Kos): BHO at 51% approval, thank you very much.
____________

Worst week? We respectfuilly request a recount or revote. It's hard to think of anyone who had a worse week than GA gubernatorial candidate (and Phalin endorsee) Nimrata Randhawa aka "Nikki Haley."

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 5, 2010 6:23 PM | Report abuse

@shrink,

I'm the stupidest person here about the bacteria, but I think I know what I don't know. Over on flickr, now they're talking about the bacteria, both kinds. I'd really like to get this clear, I have a feeling it's not so hard to understand, as you say settled science.

I agree there is dispersed oil, not on the surface. I agree it was purposely done. I agree it is a large amount, but don't know if this is the largest.

So, is it true that it is ONLY anaerobic bacteria that eat the oil?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Put differently, how soon will anyone want to eat a shrimp caught around that area?

Would that have been a shorter period of time if the oil had been skimmed as it was in the Persian Gulf, or the way it is being dispersed today?

Sure, different yadda, yadda, but I still think it is a valid question.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 5, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the technical info, folks, it's all interesting.

Posted by: drindl | June 5, 2010 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Sorry I am just zooming by, so...lets see...at least we have conceded the 'plumes' or whatever you want to call oil not on the surface exist and it is not on the surface on purpose, right? BP has created massive, nothing like it ever before, enormous volumes of oil under the surface.

So if the question is, how best to have the bugs eat that? Whatever, settled science.

My point was, it would have been better not to suspend it, better to skim it. But, there is no way to use past experience to settle this issue, because this has never been done before. Quite a science project, eh?

Posted by: shrink2 | June 5, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

At this rate, the RCP poll will show a crossing between BHO approval and disapproval by midweek!

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Real CLEAR Politics Poll of Polls TODAY- WOW their tracking graph looks like a twister lying on it's side coming to a point, with the top being approval! It's lying in a pool of OIL
47.1 approve 46.4 DISapprove of Obama

5/15 - 6/4 -- 47.1 46.4 +0.7
Gallup 6/2 - 6/4 1547 A 46 47 -1
Rasmussen Reports 6/2 - 6/4 1500 LV 45 54 -9
CBS News 5/20 - 5/24 1054 A 47 43 +4
Quinnipiac 5/19 - 5/24 1914 RV 48 43 +5
CNN/Opinion Research 5/21 - 5/23 1023 A 51 46 +5
NBC News 5/20 - 5/23 700 A 48 45 +3
FOX News 5/18 - 5/19 900 RV 45 46 -1
Democracy Corps (D) 5/15 - 5/18 1000 RV 47 47 Tie


47.1 approve and 46.4 disapprove of Obama- WOW!

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 5:31 PM | Report abuse


Real CLEAR Politics Poll of Polls TODAY- WOW their tracking graph looks like a twister lying on it's side coming to a point, with the top being approval! It's lying in a pool of OIL
47.1 approve 46.4 DISapprove

5/15 - 6/4 -- 47.1 46.4 +0.7
Gallup 6/2 - 6/4 1547 A 46 47 -1
Rasmussen Reports 6/2 - 6/4 1500 LV 45 54 -9
CBS News 5/20 - 5/24 1054 A 47 43 +4
Quinnipiac 5/19 - 5/24 1914 RV 48 43 +5
CNN/Opinion Research 5/21 - 5/23 1023 A 51 46 +5
NBC News 5/20 - 5/23 700 A 48 45 +3
FOX News 5/18 - 5/19 900 RV 45 46 -1
Democracy Corps (D) 5/15 - 5/18 1000 RV 47 47 Tie


47.1 approve and 46.4 disapprove- WOW!

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 5:30 PM | Report abuse

m-i-a,

Chilicotal makes a comment that might interest you (flickr).

Someone is going to have to make this real simple for me to get it. Chilicotal seems to be talking about aerobic bacteria eating the oil.

Is Chilicotal wrong?

You/shrink are talking about anaerobic bacteria eating the oil. I THINK the line of disagreement between you and shrink is where anaerobic bacteria can survive.

Is that correct?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Indeed, if they are using aerobic bacteria in the dispersant, that will lead to depleting O2 in the surrounding environment. The use of anaerobes within the plume or on a surface slick obviously does not deplete the surrounding environment of dissolved O2.

The ppm of dissolved O2 diminishes at depths like 5000' but I do not know what it is supposed to be in ppm.

The Ixtoc spill was big enough to make a wide dead zone, and only anaerobes could clean it up, eventually.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

shrink, these bacteria can live in very low dissolved oxygen environments or no oxygen environments. If seawater is good for fish at 6ppm -8ppm dissolved O2, anaerobes will not live there. But within an oil plume, dissolved O2 is less than 1 ppm. These guys will do OK in a plume. Or in a waste water plant. Or in a sealed plastic bag of sand, dormant.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 5:01 PM | Report abuse

You don't realize what anaerobic means. They can only live in a place where there is no oxygen. If they are alive, nothing else is alive. There is no anaerobic digestion of oil going on within an aerobic ecological system.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 5, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

The bacteria cultures turn oil into H2O and CO2. The bacteria die back from starvation when they finish a local meal, but they are safe to ingest by bigger organisms in the food chain. It is possible that "hiding the volume" with dispersant, if it is truly enzymatic-microbial, is the best thing for marine life.

"Silly me" thought they were using chemicals, before I went to Flickr.

The live feed looks more promising, this afternoon.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

"I hope your estimate of the damage of dispersal is wrong."

We agree on that, I would shout I WAS WRONG!
from the roof tops, hair shirt, groveling, who cares. But...you know oxygen kills anaerobes. If you are talking about anaerobes, you are talking The Dead Sea.
Is that just a given? We conceded that?

Posted by: shrink2 | June 5, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't it be the most wonderful coincidence if the very method BP is using to preserve plausable deniabilty about the volume of oil they are running into the Gulf were also the best way to preserve marine life in the Gulf? Wouldn't that be great?
-----------------------------
The delicious irony is not lost on me.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't it be the most wonderful coincidence if the very method BP is using to preserve plausable deniabilty about the volume of oil they are running into the Gulf were also the best way to preserve marine life in the Gulf? Wouldn't that be great?

Posted by: shrink2 | June 5, 2010 4:10 PM | Report abuse

@shrink,

Calm down, I'm not disagreeing with you. I don't know enough to have an opinion. All I can do is read what I think is informed opinions. I've got my mind open to more opinions. What I posted here was a dialogue between two posters who SEEM to have some expertise. But, it's the internet, maybe it's complete BS.

I don't have a vested interest in minimizing the effect, or in maximizing the effect. Well, actually, because I own oil stocks, I suppose I do have a vested interest, but truly I'm just trying to keep my mind open.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 4:08 PM | Report abuse

37th, I am sure there are aerobes that are oleophilic, but they would be limited in efficacy in a column of sludge or in a wastewater treatment facility. They would not be used commercially. So I retract the absolute statement that anaerobes are the only oil eaters. I do not know that.

Shrink, Ixtoc was maybe a seven million bbl spill. TX spent a fortune protecting its beaches for two years, but even seven million bbls dispersed is tiny compared with the volume of the Gulf. And I learned at the flickr site that the dispersant contains oil eating bacteria. I hope your estimate of the damage of dispersal is wrong, because I think it is wrong, rather than the converse.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

You are all crazy. Not really, but we will find out some day who was and who wasn't.

Kids' baseball game over, now I have to run and garden and go to another neighborhood meeting...but I just wanted to stop by and say you are all wrong. The current effort is a FAIL unless your goal was dispersant injection efficiency...yeah, unless your goal was dispersant injection efficiency

A massive booming and skimming effort over the point source would have been best.

The sacred air water interface worry is wrong, biomass breathes below the surface, this is not a bowl on your counter with a gasping gold fish in it. Spare me of dolphin and turtle talk, they are dead, dying or gone already. But we will know who was right many years from now.

This massive quantity of oil in the water column* absolutely overwhelms anyone who says they have evidence relevant to its toxicity. Nothing even close to this has happened before. All the greater spills went right to the surface, this one is being dispersed. What do you think dispersed means, gone? Little bugs ate it for brunch so now children can laugh and play again?

You want it out of the water, not in the water.

You know it is going under the booms, right? Is that ok? We want it flowing under the booms? Right?

Oh, bugs will eat it. Anaerobes, you know what that means, right? Every other life form is gone before they can live.

Have a great day.

*I have to laugh in derision of people who say it isn't there, you people need to get with Baghdad Bob, just keep denying and declaring victory. Where do you think the oil is? Where T F do you think it is!? Why do you think they have done everything they could to get more and more dispersant into the oil?

So, to make it float? Wrong klaxon.
Do you think if it is not floating it does not exist? Where is it? Much more oil than Exxon Valdez is MIA. Here and there they are opening up fishing where it had been closed, because...no floating oil showed up. Well if you want to eat that seafood go right ahead. Tell me you will. Tell me you don't think the oil is in the water column and you will eat food from the gulf.


Posted by: shrink2 | June 5, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

37th, the bacteria that eat oil are anaerobic.

They appear naturally in the environment, but waste water treatment facilities and oil drillers also buy commercially grown bacteria colonies that are shipped dormant in dry sand, and that activate when dumped on the wastewater or the spill or the gusher.

I still own half a gallon of dry sand dormant bacteria, that still come alive twenty years after the trial in which they were an exhibit. Quite amazing stuff.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Mark


The anaerobic bacteria are a very small percentage of the biodegradation compared to the aerobic bacteria.

There is still enough oxygen there for the aerobic bacteria to work

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Mark


The anaerobic bacteria are a very small percentage of the biodegradation compared to the aerobic bacteria.

There is still enough oxygen there for the aerobic bacteria to work

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 3:27 PM | Report abuse

ceflynline


Do you have these cofferdams already built - or do you have to manufacture them?

How many do you need for how many miles?

If you don't have them now, how long will it take for you to manufacture enough of them ???

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 3:23 PM | Report abuse

@mark in austin,

You have one person's response already.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

And now for a think big solution to the oil problems at the littoral line.

Go off shore to the ten fathom line (30 ft) and sink cofferdam boxes 100 meters on a side, starting 1000 meters on either side of the extension of the channel of South Pass. Sink them so they are deep enough to dredge the area between them and the littoral to 15 fathoms. Dump the spoil in the cofferdams and the the excess flow over the seaward lip- of the cofferdam. You might want to sew dragon's teeth on the seaward side as well. Extend these cofferdams either way maybe 50 miles, making a long barrier Island. The choke effect of the cofferdams at South Pass will slightly elevate the water level on the landward side as water flow through the silt empties into the channels that will gently push the oil back into the channels where it can be suctioned off. The Islands provide two benefits: they keep further oil from getting to the littoral and theybegin to channel run off back into the swamps. You can even build two very large locks to keep the river side of the locks a foot or so above sea level, distributing the spoil from dredging South Pass on the dry side of the levees until the levees are a couple miles wide and ten feet above sea level. leave lots of openings in the levees and all that nitrogenated gunk ends up in the swamp where it fertilizes the vegetation.

Eventually your barrier Island becomes the leading edge of the swamp with one deep water channel between it and the rest of the delta.

All science fiction, of course.

Posted by: ceflynline | June 5, 2010 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Now all they have to do is push a balloon a couple miles against 6k barrels a day oil current.

Hell, man, nothing to it!.

Posted by: ceflynline | June 5, 2010 2:53 PM
------------------------------------
Yeah--piece of cake. Who says you need an education to be a petroleum drilling engineer? Just common sense. [heavy sarcasm preceding]

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

12bb, of course that was the place to post, and now I have posted. Thanks.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

"Thanks for your explanation for the next step for the tophat. Care to share your links for your information? "

No links, just that I've seen the sleeve and clamp system used to temp patch a leaking sewage lion, and somebody one one of these blogs suggested the stent. It is obvious and Engineers keep whole sourcebooks of obvious solutions.

As an electrician I have done my share of pushing fish tapes into conduit. If you don't have good alignment, and realatively easy turns of the conduit you can't get the tape all the way through. The cap gives the relatively smooth transition for the stent to enter the drill pipe, and the tube to the surface virtually guarantees a smooth enough set of bends that the balloon holder never hangs up. Now all they have to do is push a balloon a couple miles against 6k barrels a day oil current.

Hell, man, nothing to it!.

Posted by: ceflynline | June 5, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't say Larry Richter, a legal eagle running for Lt. Gov in South Carolina. is having a very good week by attacking the combat record of a guy with a CIB who survived a Taliban ambush.

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2010/06/of-all-the-dirty-campaign-trick-available-to-politicians-a-candidate-for-south-carolinas-lieutenant-governor-has-used-one-o.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Blackfive+%28BLACKFIVE%29&utm_content=Twitter

Posted by: mesondk | June 5, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

I do want to know if the dispersant used is toxic to the anaerobic bacteria. That would present a new and different long term problem.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 2:34 PM
-------------------
I don't know the answer to your question, but here's an idea. Post your question on this techie blog, and you will be amazed. There are folks on there with an amazing breadth and depth of knowledge.

You have to keep posting your question every day or so, to keep the question read.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/uscgd8/4551846015/in/photostream/page28/

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Yea the last time I saw this level of maturity from people was probably second grade -


Let's stop talking to him -


Well Im with the cool kids now - and you all the nerds

I was cool before it was cool to be cool


NEWSPAPERS REPORTING IT IS NOW COOL TO BASH OBAMA.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/7805775/Obama-loses-the-Left-suddenly-its-cool-to-bash-Barack.html


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 2:35 PM | Report abuse

A peripheral note about something I actually know about - anaerobic sludge eating bacteria. I represented one of the producers of commercially grown bacteria in a trade secret case in the early 90s. I still own some, which when activated, will gobble up those oil stains on my garage floor.

Ixtoc, in '79, was a bigger volume gusher than Horizon BP, so far. The anaerobic bacteria created a dead zone along the Mexican Gulf Coast up to Padre Island [TX] for two years. "Normalcy" came in 2-3 years after the dead zone started to aerate again.

I am not minimizing. Five years without shrimp, for example, while the anaerobic bacteria feast on the petroleum sludge and then the hurricanes reaerate the Louisiana-Alabama Gulf will be terrible.

While I think shrink is wrong to prefer surface oil to tar balls [because of the water-to-air interface], I do want to know if the dispersant used is toxic to the anaerobic bacteria. That would present a new and different long term problem.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse


I was cool before it was cool to be cool


NEWSPAPERS REPORTING IT IS NOW COOL TO BASH OBAMA.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/7805775/Obama-loses-the-Left-suddenly-its-cool-to-bash-Barack.html

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

ceflynline,

Thanks for your explanation for the next step for the tophat. Care to share your links for your information?

I've been reading this primarily: http://www.flickr.com/photos/uscgd8/4551846015/in/photostream/page28/

It's VERY technical and is intended to be a brainstorming blog for techies who are consulting with BP. I've been reading it pretty much from the start of this situation, so I "kind of" have an idea what they are talking about, although I don't have the engineering background.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

If the tophat is actually pulling 6000 bd off the well, that could be 1/3 to 1/2 of the flow. I'm still skeptical because we've had so many disappointment, but I sure hope they can keep the thing going, and maybe even get the capture rate higher.

I think the stock market will have a real surge if so. The entire oil patch stocks are depressed because of the uncertainty. Don't I know it, because I own a few of those stocks? The market likes two things: improving certainty and simple stories. Oil going up to ship? Yaaaaaah!

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

thanks, cef and 12.

Posted by: drindl | June 5, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

12BB:

I think the cap has a bit of a skirt on it, so, depending on how muck pipe sits below the skirt, it may be that the next step, if the cap continues to produce 6k barrels of oil a day, about its max capability, will be to sleeve the pipe up into the skirt, and then clamp the sleeve. It is one way to stop flow from a ruptured pipe when you can't turn off the flow for some reason.

Of course doing it with ROVs a mile down isn't as easy as doing it out on the deserts of Arabia, but with care?

I suspect that some kind of sleeve and clamp system has been under preparation all along, just in case it can be applied.

Then again, having a mostly continuous path to the drill pipe now, they might try the oil drillers version of a stent, push a collapsed balloon down into the well, (couldn't even try that until the top was sawed free) and inflate it.

And there are various combinations of clamps and stents.

That's why Oil Drilling Engineers get the big bucks.

Posted by: ceflynline | June 5, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

@drindl,

IF the reservoir is 50 million barrels, and IF the gusher is spewing at 12,000 - 19,000 bbl/day, it would take 7-11 years to deplete the reservoir. Just simple math.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

drindl


There are millions and millions and millions of barrels of crude oil - it is an oil field.


And the pressure of the well indicates that it is a pretty good oil field.

There will be oil coming out of there for years and decades.

How in the world can you not understand that ?


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

@drindl,

I hesitate to put this out here, since I can't speak for the accuracy of the number. CS Monitor reports (that BP reports) the Maconda reservoir is 50 million barrels.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

It is CLEAR that the Oil Spill has COMPLETELY DESTROYED THE CREDIBILITY OF OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS.


Everything Obama and the democrats said about Bush and Katrina is now directed at themselves.

AND yet, it is the democrats' own words that are hurting Bush the most.

The democrats started complaining about Bush in 3 days - Obama has had 45 days now - and Obama's performance is just a complete disaster.


So now EVERYTHING OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS SAID ABOUT KATRINA HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE COMPLETE BULL.


And Obama is now WORSE THAN BUSH.


This is a disaster BECAUSE IT HAS COMPLETELY DESTROYED THE RATIONAL FOR THE DEMOCRATS -

THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DESTROYED THEMSELVES.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

HOw much is under the Gulf of Mexico/and or the well, 12B.

I haven't seen any direct polling, no.

Posted by: drindl | June 5, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

The Oil Spill has just proven that Obama is incompetent - and does not have the experience or ability to govern the nation properly.


Yesterday, he looked more like a college professor in a class discussion than anything else.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

6. Everytime Haley Barbour opens his mouth, it's to say 'it's not that bad.'

7. Rick Perry has said that it wasn't BP' fault, it was an act of God [excusing BP from liability.

8. I think most people find it a little too funny when the same people who are always whining about small government are the first to cry 'bring in the cavalry' when something happens.

I mean, I thought y'all believed that the magic of 'free markets' was the cure for everything?

Posted by: drindl | June 5, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

I was cool before it was cool to be cool


NEWSPAPERS REPORTING IT IS NOW COOL TO BASH OBAMA.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/7805775/Obama-loses-the-Left-suddenly-its-cool-to-bash-Barack.html


EAT YOUR HEART OUT.


Obama approved this well - and gave BP the permit to drill it - and OBAMA DID NOT MAKE SURE THE PROPER SAFETY PROCEDURES WERE FOLLOWED - INSTEAD HE HAS A BUNCH OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION APPOINTEES.


TELL THAT STORY TO THE PELICANS.


.
.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, 12Bar.


What I am trying to figure out is what are the outside limits of how much oil there could be below the bed of the Gulf?

Posted by: drindl | June 5, 2010 1:33 PM
----------------------------------
Bwahaha!!!!!!!! I'm sorry--you mean how much oil is in the reservoir below the Macondo well? Or how much oil is under the Gulf of Mexico? Not that I know the answer to either.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

@drindl,

Posters can love or hate Obama, but I don't pay much attention to that. That's one person's opinion, and they are entitled to it.

What is far more relevant is what the polls show. According to 538, it is questionable that President Obama's approval rating has moved due to the oil gusher, since movement in his approval rating is within the margin of error.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

Have you seen polls that ask polling questions that directly relate to the oil gusher?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, 12Bar.


What I am trying to figure out is what are the outside limits of how much oil there could be below the bed of the Gulf?

Posted by: drindl | June 5, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I was cool before it was cool to be cool


NEWSPAPERS REPORTING IT IS NOW COOL TO BASH OBAMA.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/7805775/Obama-loses-the-Left-suddenly-its-cool-to-bash-Barack.html


EAT YOUR HEART OUT.

Obama approved this well - and gave BP the permit to drill it - and OBAMA DID NOT MAKE SURE THE PROPER SAFETY PROCEDURES WERE FOLLOWED - INSTEAD HE HAS A BUNCH OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION APPOINTEES.


TELL THAT STORY TO THE PELICANS.

.
.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Is BP's live feed off now?


If they were getting 6K barrels a day, I wanted to try to estimate how much of the total that was.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

@ceflynline,

Did you see the latest update? I can't believe it (and part of me is skeptical as hell), but BP is reporting they have the capture rate of the tophat up to 6000 bbl/day. That is the best news, if true, and if they can get the rate up further, or even keep it here. They are definitely capturing something since they are flaring off the natural gas.

I am SO pulling for this gusher being capped, if not totally, at least substantially until the relief wells come in.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Why the Dems will prevail in November... this paragraph is a good example. Of the gov race in CA

'Even without immigration, candidates this primary season face a politically daunting task in trying to navigate an increasingly conservative Republican base and emerge as a viable candidate in the general election. Mark Baldassare, president and chief executive of the Public Policy Institute of California, a policy study and polling group, said that 75 percent of Republicans statewide disapproved of President Obama in a poll earlier last month, compared with 39 percent of all registered voters in California. '

1. The teapartyists are dragging the R party very far right, to xenophobia and race hatred. For instance in SC, a state senator called a fellow tper a 'f*c*ing r*ghead' because her father is a Sikh. This kind of stuff is becoming more prevalent and turns any moderates and indies off. You can't win on the strength of your base alone.

2. Everyone knows that the lobbyists in MMS were installed by our Oil President, Dick Cheney. Granted, Obama should have fired every Bush appointeee the day after he was elected, but he was making the mistake of trying to be bipartisan, an effort I hope he has abandoned.

3. The Repbulicans are still screaming 'Drill, Baby, Drill' something that may not have as much shalll we say resonance now.

4. The Repulicans are fighting every effort to make BP pay for the spill, fighting a Demcratic effort to raise the liability cap and make taxpayers pay for this mess.


Posted by: drindl | June 5, 2010 1:27 PM | Report abuse


I was cool before it was cool to be cool


NEWSPAPERS REPORTING IT IS NOW COOL TO BASH OBAMA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/7805775/Obama-loses-the-Left-suddenly-its-cool-to-bash-Barack.html

EAT YOUR HEART OUT.


Obama approved this well - and gave BP the permit to drill it - and OBAMA DID NOT MAKE SURE THE PROPER SAFETY PROCEDURES WERE FOLLOWED - INSTEAD HE HAS A BUNCH OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION APPOINTEES.

TELL THAT STORY TO THE PELICANS.

.
.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 1:23 PM | Report abuse

BB asnd Shrink:

The big think tank at Houston has essentially two solutions,

!. drill relief and draw off wells. This sulotion was begun as soon as they had drillingt rigs in place. The problem is that they don't work until August.

SOOO

Solution 2: try anything else while you are waiting. Do it in an orderly engineering like fashion. Try something and hope it worksd, but don't get your hopes up. Thus first try the top hat, which went down to the caveat that at the pressures on the bottom the methane in the gas might cool the sea water to the freezing point, and there wasn't any real chance to pre heat the bottom water. Fears confirmed, so the hat sits on the bottom while they think about it.

So try top kill. Fears are that the well is under so much pressure it wont hold. Fears confirmed.

Etc Etc.

It is frustrating to sit on the side lines and watch the problem, but the people working on it are experienced in this kind of problem, or as experienced as it is possible to be. And their endless diet of Differential Equations, Vector Analysis, decision matrices, and all the mechanical, electrical, and chemical engineering tools doesn't play very well on the nightly news.

So solution one creeps at its petty pace from day to day and we hear about the ancillary failures.

Meanwhile, BP has a legal problem with its communications with the non engineering world. Almost anything it puts out just might tip the right investors to some real or imagined force acting on the market, and the Great Prognosticators, who can say with great infallibility why the stock market did what it did YESTERDAY, already have provided us with hundreds of reasons that stocks, bonds, and banking are back on the route to implosion.

And even if BP had the big guns out with a REAL power point presentation, Partials in five independent variables and all, the investment people would invent an interpretation and hope it lead them to greater and greater wealth, taken of course from other investors.

When the tap hits the old well things should get better, when the relief well gets to the oil things should get better, and when BHO uses the disaster to crack down on callously negligent deep water drilling, like happened after the Santa Barbara Channel blow out, things will get better still.

And all of this takes time, in a Media world who thinks Jack Bauer takes a long time when he needs a two hour special to save the world.

AND Cannula thinks that "High Pressure Oxygen works, remember Jaws?"

He needs to watch more Mythbusters.

Posted by: ceflynline | June 5, 2010 1:17 PM | Report abuse

I was cool before it was cool to be cool

NEWSPAPERS REPORTING IT IS NOW COOL TO BASH OBAMA.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/7805775/Obama-loses-the-Left-suddenly-its-cool-to-bash-Barack.html

EAT YOUR HEART OUT.

.


Posted by: 37thand0street | June 5, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

OK, seek and ye shall find. Here is the link reporting the capture rate of the tophat at 6,077 bbl on June 4:

http://www.bp.com/extendedsectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=40&contentId=7061813

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

...and who said "Drill Baby Drill" (Phalin)and pushed for unlimited, unregulated off-shore drilling (Piyush Jindal and friends). Case closed. The oil spill-is-BHO's-fault false narrative won't pass the laugh test.

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 5, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

On the Oil Drum, and now on ABC News, BP reports that their capture rate on the tophat is up to 6000 bbl/day. Lord, how I hope this is true.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6564#more

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

7 reasons the political tide in America will turn Red as the Beaches turn Black

1. The leaking Well was approved during the Obama Presidency
2.Obama's agency- the MMS- failed to properly oversee the safety procedures that govern the well, resulting in the forcing out of office the head of the MMS
3. Weeks before the disaster Obama made a speech calling for More Deep Sea Oil Exploration
4.. Following the recognition of the devastating magnitude of the leak- this was not a self contained minor spill- rather than appoint a federal official to take charge and coordinate the efforts at capping and containing, using BP and other resources-military and private, Obama stood by and critiqued BP, while throwing tar balls for the cameras on the Gulf beaches, as seen on the nightly news.
5. To date Obama has not forced BP to pay one Louisiana citizen one check for their efforts in assisting in the cleanup/containment- as promised.
6. BP has set up a website to obtain public suggestions for capping the well_WHERE is the government's- BP is a FOR profit entity and will decide what to do on a proift/loss basis.
7. This is NOT BP's problem- this is OUR problem- these are AMERICANS being displaced, AMERICA being defiled, AMERICAN wildlife being slaughtered by a MULTINATIONAL company run by Brits!

- So wake up your inept, inexperienced community organizer and get him to find a federal official who knpws what the hell he or she is doing and show some leadership.

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 12:58 PM | Report abuse

@Trolls Inc.: BHO at 51% (Research 2000)and doin' fine despite the hate. Developing...
___________

BTW, what will be the media-created anti-BHO fake controversy for next week, Fix? BHO caught smoking a cigarette? BHO incorrectly conjugated a verb? BHO didn't dive into the water and plug the BP oil leak with his head? BHO looked at young girl who happened to be in his field of vision? BHO's swim trunks didn't have a flagpin? Michelle LaVaughan exercised her abs.

Come on, Fix, give us a heads up.

Riddle me this: If she were alive, what would Katherine Graham say if she read your "political news & analysis"?

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 5, 2010 12:50 PM | Report abuse

There's more, which sums it up:

"My point here is that the dispersed clouds of oil are not threat-free. Pretty much everyone agrees suspended clouds of dispersed oil are far better than oil coating the surface.

My main point was to criticize the effect our Mediacracy's reporting of these plumes has created. They deliberately give the impression that these are vast pools of liquid oil. lurking under the surface. The person whom I quoted had exactly that impression, and it isn't an accident. "If it bleeds, it leads" and oil-covered birds, turtles and dolphins make our hearts bleed.

Giant pools of lurking undersea oil scare the sh'it out of us. Who cares if they don't actually exist, and are preferable to having the glop floating on the surface? We're being jerked around to keep us watching.

At the same time, I didn't want to sell short the problem of dispersed subsea oil. It's a lot better than the alternative, but we should be aware of negative consequences and keep track of them. Just because we don't see the oil on the surface doesn't mean it isn't doing any harm."

Same link.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Response to poster talking about the dispersed oil below the Gulf surface:

"kenbobb,

The bacteria and other organisms that consume the oil will do their job pretty quickly, they love the stuff. Very little food makes it down past 3,000ft so the fauna in deep water consume it pretty quickly when it shows up. Once it's consumed it no longer poses a threat, ..."

Then he talks about the threat to oxygen because of the oil, but that is another issue.

Same link as below.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

drindl wrote: do we have an estimate of how much oil is under the Gulf, in totality?
--------------------------------
Just reporting here, but thought this was interesting.

"Short answer, these plumes are mostly water (and dissolved methane), and very little oil. They are not huge pools of oil lurking under the ocean. That would be impossible, because oil is buoyant and would rise to the surface if the concentration started to approach anything like a significant fraction of the water volume."

"However, almost every real oceanographer with experience will say they'd much rather have the oil suspended in the deep waters of the Gulf than on the surface. Surface oil is devastating to almost everything, because it interrupts the critical air/water/soil interface, and because the vast majority of life in the oceans depends on the sunlight and surface mixing of air and water.

But there are not huge pools of oil under the water. There are areas where a small percentage of oil is suspended in the water by dispersants, and those areas are going to take a pretty long time to naturally remediate."

response to the above poster coming...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/uscgd8/4551846015/in/photostream/page28/

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Good to hear from you, Alaninmissoula...


'I think the real implication of your explosive idea is twofold: First, how likely is it to work? Second, what is the risk? "

Could it make it worse? A question for anyone -- do we have an estimate of how much oil is under the Gulf, in totality?

Good to hear from you, Alaninmissoula...

Posted by: drindl | June 5, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

12bar- Done and done- thanks again
thecannula says:
Horizon 37- I have been advised to get your opinion on this idea-

What do you think about 5 of these oxygen gas bombs described below placed on an equidistant perimeter in an attempt to crimp the pipe closed?

UNDERWATER EXPLOSIVE DEVICE

The present invention relates to an underwater explosive device and, more particularly, to a new and improved explosive device for underwater applications which is constructed to increase the extent of reaction, the pressure, temperature and bubble energy.

The underwater explosive device of the present invention comprises a suitable explosive for underwater use surrounded by oxygen gas under high pressure. This construction is advantageous for a number of reasons. First, the oxygen gas is not in and of itself a hazardous material. While it supports combustion, it is not combustible. Second, tank technology is available to house oxygen gas at high pressures such as 4350 psia. Third, and most importantly, the addition of high pressure oxygen has the capability to magnify the explosive effects of an underwater explosive, such as a titanium, magnesium or aluminum-loaded explosive, allowing for a small charge to appear much bigger. The gas-gas reactions are quick enough to significantly enhance bubble gas volume and temperature of the explosive reaction. underwater use surrounded by oxygen gas under high pressure. This construction is advantageous for a number of reasons. First, the oxygen gas is not in and of itself a hazardous material. While it supports combustion, it is not combustible. Second, tank technology is available to house oxygen gas at high pressures such as 4350 psia. Third, and most importantly, the addition of high pressure oxygen has the capability to magnify the explosive effects of an underwater explosive, such as a titanium, magnesium or aluminum-loaded explosive, allowing for a small charge to appear much bigger. The gas-gas reactions are quick enough to significantly enhance bubble gas volume and temperature of the explosive reaction.
Posted 2 seconds ago. ( permalink | delete | edit )

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

AllenInMissoula,

From a fellow Montanan. I lived in Missoula in my early 20s and again in my late 20s. Originally from eastern Montana.

Glad to hear from you.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Thanks 12Bar. I did submit the form to BP directly- for what that's worth?

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

AllenInMissoula, we missed you. Kirk's history of embellishing is pretty outrageous to me, too.

I only gave Blumenthal the benefit of the doubt after I read a "Columbia Journalism Review" article that deconstructed the NYT story, but I have my doubts about him too.

There is something generational about this, I know. I was honorably discharged out of the Newport Naval Hospital in 1968 without ever having served in VN.
I am very conscious of my friends who did serve there; the many who came back and the five I knew who did not, whose names are on that black polished wall.
I would never confuse myself with them.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I think the real implication of your explosive idea is twofold: First, how likely is it to work? Second, what is the risk?

I read the two comments to your idea. Keep posting it until you get these guys to really focus on your idea. You haven't gotten REAL feedback yet.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

12bar-sorry no I just found it online doing a search for a non nuclear explosive alternative- I have no financial interest in bombs- just cannulae

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 11:37 AM
-----------------------------
Good to know.

What kind of responses are you getting from the flickr blog. Another suggestion: Horizon 37 seems to be one of the most influential guys with BP. You can address your idea to him. I've read every single post on every single page and he seems to respond when the post is directed to him.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 11:42 AM | Report abuse

I got 2 responses on the Flickr blog- neither encouraging- but hey do you know the story of H Pylori? The doc who suggested that bacteria can cause gastric ulcers was almost thrown out of medicine- it can!

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

12bar-sorry no I just found it online doing a search for a non nuclear explosive alternative- I have no financial interest in bombs- just cannulae

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

@cannula,

To repeat my earlier question, is this Underwater Explosive Device something you own and are selling?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

@cannula,

What does the flickr blog think of your underwater explosive idea? Just a suggestion--keep posting it every few pages so they think you are still there asking for feedback.

Did you include your idea of manned submarines?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 5, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

ellislawoffice-

1. The leaking Well was approved during the Obama Presidency
2.Obama's agency- the MMS- failed to properly oversee the safety procedures that govern the well, resulting in the forcing out of office the head of the MMS
3. Following the recognition of the devastating magnitude of the leak- this was not a self contained minor spill- rather than appoint a federal official to take charge and coordinate the efforts at capping and containing, using BP and other resources-military and private, Obama stood by and critiqued BP, while throwing tar balls for the cameras on the Gulf beaches, as seen on the nightly news.
4. To date Obama has not forced BP to pay one Louisiana citizen one check for their efforts in assisting in the cleanup/containment- as promised.
5. BP has set up a website to obtain public suggestions for capping the well_WHERE is the government's- BP is a FOR profit entity and will decide what to do on a proift/loss basis.
6. This is NOT BP's problem- this is OUR problem- these are AMERICANS being displaced, AMERICA being defiled, AMERICAN wildlife being slaughtered by a MULTINATIONAL company run by Brits!
7. So wake up your inept, inexperienced community organizer of any color and get him to find a federal official who knpws what the hell he or she is doing and show some leadership.- There is no racism here------oh, unless YOU voted for him Because of race, of course.

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Can I just say, this line is really stupid?

"...promise in politics...isn't much without results."

So promise isn't much without results. Wow, why didn't I think of that? But Baghdad Bob hasn't realized that either and he is in a top out of sight BP executive pay grade. Well I guess that is why some people are paid to write this stuff while we post for free.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 5, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

The oil gusher is as bad as ever...too early for optimism sez the prez, well that is something we can all agree with. Still waiting for the magic vales to turn off.
But I can wait another day. Traditionally, BP waits for Sunday to confess its failures.

You know, As Baghdad Bob was cheerfully predicting they would someday get 90% of the oil going up the little pipe on top, I saw American tanks appear in the distance, coming up the road behind him.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 5, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Oh what a tangled web we weave ... It's one thing to embellish in a bar, another to embellish for the public record. If he had only stated what he had actually done, his service would be impressive enough.
As a Vietnam veteran and faher of a real Iraqi Freedom veteran, I cast a dim eye on wannabes.

Posted by: AlaninMissoula | June 5, 2010 10:39 AM | Report abuse

joelinpdx: nice, calling everyone idiots. Not exactly conducive to debate when you do that. especially when we constantly hear from the right"he lies", with no examples like oh, I don't know, WMD's, Tillman's "friendly fire" death cover-up, along with the BIG spin on Jessica Lynch's capture and rescue. How about Valerie Plame? And "heckuva job" Brownie? How about unaccounted for billions "lost" by Bremer and his 20's something staff at the CPA, who had no clue about anything they were involved in fixing in Iraq, and had seasoned military and mideast experts pulling their hair out in frustration at having to listen to these wet-behind-the-ears Republican faithfuls. Katrina was a known entity, Bush knew it was coming, Obama and everyone had no clue about the oil explosion. Apparently, there was some precursor though, BP had known that some parts had shut down, and they knew this hours before the explosion.

Posted by: katem1 | June 5, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

How is this for an idea I put forward five weeks ago: no dispersants! Let it surface into a massive skimmer effort. The underwater cloud of emulsified death BP is creating will be their legacy. I believe this will become the worst oil disaster in history, not for total volume (though we will never get an accurate number on this, even within an order of magnitude), for environmental impact.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 5, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

It'a amazing that you racist Obama hatin' mental midgets are constantly criticizing President Obama at every turn on every issue, yet you can't specify anything that he has done or not done as the basis of your attacks. For instance you attempt to make President Obama responsible for the oil spill which is ridiculous. Clearly the Government doesn't have the technical capacity to fix an oil leak on the ocean floor at 5000 feet below. Maybe when the permits were given to "drill baby drill" during the prior administration, tighter regulations should have been put in place to make sure that this kind of system failure could not occur. This is BP's mess and the Government now has to make them clean it up and pay for all the damages that have been caused by it.

Bush screwed up so bad that it's going to take several more years to clean up the mess that he had 8 years to make !

Posted by: ellislawoffice | June 5, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Mark- Thanks I did this morning.
We'll see...

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 9:13 AM | Report abuse

cannula, I think you should pose your technical idea seriously at the web site the Chronicle reported on this morning.
----------------------------------------
A place for new spill ideas

The federal government is kicking off a new effort to collect and review spill response ideas from scientists and vendors.

The Coast Guard's Research and Development Center, on www.FedBizOpps.gov, calls for "white papers" that focus on the following topics: oil sensing improvements to response and detection; oil wellhead control and submerged oil response; traditional oil spill response technologies; alternative oil spill response technologies; and oil spill damage assessment and restoration.

That agency, along with the Interagency Alternative Technology Assessment Program -- a new initiative that came out of the feds' Deepwater Horizon spill response -- will "screen and triage submissions based on technical feasibility efficacy and deployability," the Coast Guard said in a statement.

BP has been taking in ideas for weeks, with some 31,600 received to date.
--------------------------------------------

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 9:11 AM | Report abuse

"Your submission has been entered into our database for technical review. Given the number of proposed solutions we are receiving, this may take some time. Please be patient, you will be informed of the disposition of your recommendation as soon as possible.

Thank you,
Horizon Support Team"

Oxygen Gas Explosive Crimping- my suggestion for stopping the leak - has been submitted to BP- I wish it was submitted to the United States Task Force on the Gulf Disaster- BUT there is no such entity- That's (sorry) a community that has yet to be organized!

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

cannula, I have been, as I have intimated, following in the "Chronicle". The entire off shore drilling and service industry is heavily involved. The geotechnical faculties of the universities are virtually relocated to Houston. One UT prof on the job is a regular on "The News Hour" lately. Thousands of boats and ships form a surface flotilla for containment work.

BP may be the funding source, and the nominal lead, but my impression is that no board room folks in London are calling the shots. Example: the university folks consider themselves to be advising the Coast Guard and the federal agencies, and that, for instance, is why the fed ordered two relief wells at once. Redundancy statistically favors success.

Shrink knows that only a month ago I favored more drilling because I believed that platform incidents were a thing of the distant past thanks to the failsafe mechanisms I have seen demonstrated on the U.T. campus. I have taken the heat from many for my faith in "failsafe", since.

My two petroleum engineering friends have now told me much of what BP did wrong, intentionally. I do not think it has been reported, even in the "Chronicle", that BP shorted their description of the hole Halliburton was to originally cap by 300'. Halliburton thus found it was short of concrete and had to halt operation. So I have no faith that BP will correctly report any information upon which it maintains a monopoly. Thus my hope is that it no longer has that monopoly in any area.

In that, I want the Coast Guard to have immediate access to EVERYTHING.

If they do, then the entire drilling and service community should be able to do better than the Navy, because it is one of their functions, and in [all] their best interest.

And I would not shed a tear, if BP paid a dividend, if we then immediately forced an involuntary CH. 11.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 8:59 AM | Report abuse

"Meanwhile, BP's Hayward assured investors that the company had "considerable firepower" to cope with the severe costs."

Well, that makes me feel a lot better. Now we can all relax, BP is going to be just fine.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 5, 2010 7:50 AM | Report abuse

Blert, Ddawd, Mark, 37th, 12Bar-

As we enter the 8th week of this disaster, I would like to know if you feel that it is time that our government take over this operation, while obligating BP to shoulder all of the cost of containment and clean up, without giving BP the power to decide how these two goals are accomplished. Perhaps we should put together a panel of industry experts from other oil exploration companies, as well as international experts, all under our Secretary of the Interior, Vice President, or President's direction. I believe whatever is done by Robots can be better done by manned submarine, and I use the improper sawing of the riser pipe as an example. Since the cut was slanted and not straight across, the cap could not seal as well, If we use deep sea diving subs to tap communications cables at the bottom of the ocean, we can use them here. In any case profit motive has No place in the salvaging of our natural resources, which happens to be the coast where millions of Americans and countless species live, play, and make their living. So having a profit motivated entity running this huge and important show- a deciding which ideas to employ- seems ludicrous to me.
We have 2 months until the time the relief wells will be completed- let's get some new leadership and put that time to the best use.

Posted by: thecannula | June 5, 2010 6:59 AM | Report abuse

cannula,

I'm guessing that the explosion option is off the table because it could ultimately just make the problem worse. At the very least, they don't know what the result would be, and they have no way of predicting the result with any kind of accuracy. The oil is gushing out because it is under pressure, so any explosive fix would need to leave enough debris piled solidly on top that no oil can seep out.

Keep in mind that this oil patch is not just 5000 feet underwater, but something like another 18,000 feet below that. Exploding something anywhere at or near where the well pushes up through the sea floor could just blow off the pipes coming out of the ground, leaving engineers nothing to work with except a gaping hole if the explosion fails to stop the leak.

Simply creating a crater with the explosion would let the oil keep leaking out, so for any explosive solution, BP would likely have to drill fairly far underground alongside the well shaft, and then detonate the explosion there. In a best-case scenario, this would collapse the well shaft and stop the flow of oil, but there is no guarantee that this would happen. The worst-case scenario could be a blowout of the existing well, or even a leak coming out of two shafts instead of one. Oops.

The problem, too, is that it would require drilling a new shaft, which BP is already doing to sink the relief well. The relief well has more predictable odds of success, so if they are going to sink a second well anyway, why not make it for the relief well instead of for some desperate explosive solution?

I agree that an explosion would be a very cool way to put an end to this leak, but we're all probably conditioned by Hollywood to overestimate the effectiveness of the ka-boom technique.

Posted by: blert | June 5, 2010 4:49 AM | Report abuse

Mark, it says something about us that we are so fixated on an issue that is 90% environmental. It says a good thing. I know I'm Mr. New Orleans on this blog and all, but this hasn't affected me any more than you guys. It's still heartwarming that we care so much about what's going on here.

Posted by: DDAWD | June 5, 2010 1:43 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the serious discussion of the gusher.

The technical blog that shrink and 12bb have linked to several times is a great source of information. The only news organization that has reported in any depth that I know of is "The Houston Chronicle".

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 5, 2010 12:37 AM | Report abuse

I'm back- no comments please- 12BarBlues- I take 48% of it back- thanks for the link- I posted my idea- I'll let you know what they say- hey- is this civil discourse? I hope you see the thread of validity in my joking about Robocop- that we are relying on a for profit company at a time of crisis- i don't like it- just today Jindal announced that BP hasn't issued 1 check to reimburse the boaters who they hired to help contain the oil- but they put their PR people up in fancy condos and made commercials defending their actions- despicable.

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 11:59 PM | Report abuse

Clearly Obama made the commitment to the American People that he could do better than Bush did in Katrina.


Obama has already failed according to that standard.


In Katrina, the democrats were complaining after 3 days - we are not in day 45 and Obama has had time to prepare - he still has not got it right.


Obama promised better - HE CAN NOT DELIVER.


OBAMA'S ADMINISTRATION IS NOTHING BUT A PATHETIC ATTEMPT TO JAM THROUGH A LEFT WING AGENDA UNDER FALSE PROMISES.


The simple acts of governing Obama is apparently completely incapable of.


What is with the golf, the vacations, the rock concerts ??


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 4, 2010 11:30 PM | Report abuse

bye

Posted by: shrink2 | June 4, 2010 11:15 PM | Report abuse

"...it can't leak any faster!"

This is a good start, stop listening to the ridiculous crap from Baghdad Bob. We have to take control of this thing. Who owns the disaster? We do? Can we get that?

Posted by: shrink2 | June 4, 2010 11:13 PM | Report abuse

OBAMA is doing worse now than Bush was doing during Katrina


During Katrina, the democrats were COMPLAINING ABOUT BUSH AFTER 3 DAYS.


We are on DAY 45 RIGHT NOW AND OBAMA STILL CAN NOT GET IT RIGHT.


Obama is a complete disaster.

What is worse - is the democrats just spent the last 5 YEARS TELLING THE COUNTRY THEY COULD DO BETTER THAN BUSH -


guess what ?


Obama is NOW DOING A WORSE JOB THAN BUSH.

This is MORE THAN OBAMA'S KATRINA -


THIS OIL SPILL HAS DESTROY ALL OF OBAMA'S CREDIBILITY - ALL OF THE CREDIBILITY OF THE DEMOCRATS

Obama really looks bad going down to Louisiana and pretending he is doing something.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 4, 2010 11:12 PM | Report abuse

FB- Wife's calling goodnight for now ...

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 11:12 PM | Report abuse

cannula,

If you feel strongly about your idea of explosives, why don't you post it on one of the technical blogs and get feedback. None of us here can give informed feedback.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/uscgd8/4551846015/in/photostream/page2/

is the blog I read, and the guys on there are consulting with BP.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 11:11 PM | Report abuse

Fairlington- I don't pretend to have the scientific expertise necessary to solve the problem- I only throw out a possible solution to illustrate that NOT everything is being tried- as you said-you have no idea why it might not work-what bothers me is that a for profit corporation for which every decision is governed by the bottom line is deciding WHAT to try- now apparently nothing will be tried until the 2 relief wells- which are NO sure thing (see Mexico leak quoted in yesterday's NY Times)- we need subs, non nuke explosives, welding apparatus....whatever- as governed by the best American scientists, under our Navy's supervision- Before August's wells are completed....just leave THAT to BP.

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 11:09 PM | Report abuse

The worst week in Washington has to be Tony Hayward.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 4, 2010 11:08 PM | Report abuse

The democrats are EATING CROW THIS WEEK.


Clearly everything the democrats said about Katrina was just politics - all truth which anyone gave them credit for is simply out the window now.


All the whining of the democrats - all the attitude - everything they said that they COULD DO BETTER - ALL THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE WRONG -


Instead of the democrats knowing better than Bush - they now LOOK WORSE THAN BUSH.


The democrats appear like they have ARROGANCE WHICH DRAGS THEM DOWN.

Katrina has indeed become a weight around the necks of the democrats - now the democrats, instead of knowing what to do better, just look like they shoot off their mouths and there is NOTHING BEHIND ANY OF THEIR WORDS.


Obama is BEING HELD TO THE STANDARD HE PERSONALLY SET DURING KATRINA - AND OBAMA IS FAILING MISERABLY.

OBAMA IS ACTUALLY MAKING BUSH LOOK GOOD NOW.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 4, 2010 11:07 PM | Report abuse

cannula,

I'm curious about the underwater explosive device you describe. Is this your description? This sounds like a marketing description. Are you selling this device? Have you pitched it to BP, if you are selling it?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Brigade


Clearly Obama made the commitment to the American People that he could do better than Bush did in Katrina.


Obama has already failed according to that standard.


In Katrina, the democrats were complaining after 3 days - we are not in day 45 and Obama has had time to prepare - he still has not got it right.


Obama promised better - HE CAN NOT DELIVER.


OBAMA'S ADMINISTRATION IS NOTHING BUT A PATHETIC ATTEMPT TO JAM THROUGH A LEFT WING AGENDA UNDER FALSE PROMISES.


The simple acts of governing Obama is apparently completely incapable of.

What is with the golf, the vacations, the rock concerts ??


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 4, 2010 11:02 PM | Report abuse

cannula,

I'm curious about the underwater explosive device you describe. Is this your description? This sounds like a marketing description. Are you selling this device? Have you pitched it to BP, if you are selling it?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 11:02 PM | Report abuse

"The oil will rise fine. What it needed is a way to prevent the hydrates from building."

Not true, sadly. Only true with a perfect seal. But, no matter, that is all they know, from sea floor to surface perfect continuity. So I don't blame them. Someone just has to to say No! to them. They are out of their element.

Think about it, it is obvious, fantastic pressure + turbulent flow encounters a cap with a little hole on top with a very, very long pipe (walls create resistance), or, you could just squirt out the side...Of course the pump option is moot, but so is everything else.

They never should have cut the crimp off, they should have shoved as many cannulas as they could up that hole ;-}, tried to bind up or stabilize the cracks at the crimp and...waited.


Posted by: shrink2 | June 4, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

@cannula - I think you're serious, I just don't think you have relevant expertise. The original idea was to put a big honking cap on top of it--an idea that was entirely frustrated due to the formation of ice crystals. I suspect there are ten different reasons that crimping the pipe wouldn't work and I haven't a clue as to what they are. I've done enough metal work to know that metal fatigue can be a serious problem. There is a heckuva lot of pressure down there, both from the well and the depth. I have no idea why you think the military has the expertise to handle this problem. I do think it highly probable that any scientists and engineers who work for the military (and there's a lot of us) who have relevant expertise are working on the problem.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | June 4, 2010 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Fairlington- If you notice my post on underwater explosives, you'll see that compressed oxygen is a very effective explosive (remember JAWS?)- so what if 5 explosives were equally spaced in a perimeter around the 7 inch leaking pipe- might it crimp it enough to slow or stop the flow? Think of squeezing it from the outside rather than throwing it against a wall. It might work and it can't leak any faster! That's why I think the military should be involved in protecting our citizens- not a forprofit foreign corporation!

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 10:54 PM | Report abuse

From flickr blog, the key guy:

"And within BP there inter-department rivalries that make the government bureaucracies look benign. The production guys hate the exploration guys, the finance guys hate the exploration guys and the marketing guys hate all of the rest of them, Suttles is a marketing guy so the production and exploration guys will feed him crap just so he will put his foot in his mouth and then they set back and laugh at him for being a boob. You have to understand the pecking order of the company at any given time, if the other guys can get Suttles booted and one of their guys in his place they know they can get more funding for their projects. This pisses off the finance guys because they want all of the money to play with on the market, their concept is to make money off of investments, not by making and selling a real product at a profit."

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 10:54 PM | Report abuse

@Cannula - OK, I'll bite. I've heard enough of the comments along the lines of detonate a nuke to shut the well. My question. Isn't there a fair possibility this would simply shatter the rock? BP effectively drilled a hole into a balloon full of natural gas and petroleum. Why shouldn't one believe that detonating a nuke would open not one, but many escape vents? In effect, you are arguing for firing a bullet into the balloon.

If you want to have fun making Roboprez cracks, go for it. There are, however, hundreds of geophysicists who would love to seal this well. I've yet to hear an authoritative source state that a detonation would seal the hole. If one has a leaky pitcher, you don't solve the problem by throwing it against a wall.

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | June 4, 2010 10:47 PM | Report abuse

How did the greatest environmental disaster in US history get Tony Heyward elected as President of the Gulf of Mexico? Aren't our territorial waters under Obama's jurisdiction?

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 10:46 PM | Report abuse

The cofferdam needs pumps or it will never work. This oil is supposed to get itself up these mile long pipes by itself?
----------------------------
I'm just reporting. I don't know if this is correct or not: The techie say it doesn't need a pump. The oil will rise fine. What it needed is a way to prevent the hydrates from building.

Thanks for the other link. I've been there but not lately.

I read somewhere the Timor Sea well was shallow, but you are right, it was about 2 miles below. Shows you have to verify everything you read on the 'net. Like I should already know that.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 10:43 PM | Report abuse

40,000 noncensus jobs created

400,000 noncensus jobs expected

Incompetence in the Gulf created

Competence expected

"Yes We Can" slogans created

"No you can't" is just what we "wingnuts" expected!


Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 10:41 PM | Report abuse

@12BB - Couldn't resist that one. I figure you're 11 bars better than me.

Cheers!

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | June 4, 2010 10:34 PM | Report abuse

You read this one too I imagine.

http://www.theoildrum.com/

Posted by: shrink2 | June 4, 2010 10:33 PM | Report abuse

I am pretty sure the Timor Sea well was in deep water.

Now, I don't trust them to touch this thing. New BOP? Hilarious.

The cofferdam needs pumps or it will never work. This oil is supposed to get itself up these mile long pipes by itself? No, much easier to squirt out the sides, under and around. Problem is, there are no pumps great enough combined with pipes with sidewalls strong enough to suck oil harder from that depth than it is being blown out the hole.

I think they should stop trying even more desperate interventions. They have already made it worse, they did not have to do that. In surgery, they teach, don't try to polish a turd.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 4, 2010 10:28 PM | Report abuse

@shrink,

I find this interesting even if no one else does. The guys on the flickr blog (did you say that is UC?), who actually DO consult with BP, are as perplexed as we are. They say that BP does not keep them informed of engineering decisions (even though these guys are feeding the decisions), so they don't know why some of the tradeoffs. Sometimes, they suspect there are financial considerations--then other times, they just scratch their heads (or something), because the decisions are not financially advantageous.

However, that is not to say that the overarching array of choices to cap the well are not well understood. The blog guys agree with the range of choices and in the order of their implementation. Sometimes, they disagree with lower level engineering decisions.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 10:26 PM | Report abuse

Dear Gulf of Mexico President Heyward- Please consider that you do NOT require nuclear weapons to crimp or close your leaky 7 in. pipe with explosives-

UNDERWATER EXPLOSIVE DEVICE

The present invention relates to an underwater explosive device and, more particularly, to a new and improved explosive device for underwater applications which is constructed to increase the extent of reaction, the pressure, temperature and bubble energy.

The underwater explosive device of the present invention comprises a suitable explosive for underwater use surrounded by oxygen gas under high pressure. This construction is advantageous for a number of reasons. First, the oxygen gas is not in and of itself a hazardous material. While it supports combustion, it is not combustible. Second, tank technology is available to house oxygen gas at high pressures such as 4350 psia. Third, and most importantly, the addition of high pressure oxygen has the capability to magnify the explosive effects of an underwater explosive, such as a titanium, magnesium or aluminum-loaded explosive, allowing for a small charge to appear much bigger. The gas-gas reactions are quick enough to significantly enhance bubble gas volume and temperature of the explosive reaction. underwater use surrounded by oxygen gas under high pressure. This construction is advantageous for a number of reasons. First, the oxygen gas is not in and of itself a hazardous material. While it supports combustion, it is not combustible. Second, tank technology is available to house oxygen gas at high pressures such as 4350 psia. Third, and most importantly, the addition of high pressure oxygen has the capability to magnify the explosive effects of an underwater explosive, such as a titanium, magnesium or aluminum-loaded explosive, allowing for a small charge to appear much bigger. The gas-gas reactions are quick enough to significantly enhance bubble gas volume and temperature of the explosive reaction.

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 10:18 PM | Report abuse

@shrink,

The techie guys think they should go back to the big cofferdam and engineer it a little more. But, most importantly, have the cofferdam ready to produce oil when they set it over the wellhead. Problem was that set the cofferdam over and then didn't produce oil for 12 hours.

Next best idea, place another BOP on top of existing BOP.

I get the impression that the cofferdam is probably a better, lower risk idea.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 10:17 PM | Report abuse

Why? Why?! Why?!!!

Best guess...

1) They did it because they though it might work and there was no one, no one willing to own the responsibility of telling them to stop fooling around.

2) Too many action movies. Engineers decided, hey now we're in charge and they oversold the chance of it working.

3) Both.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 4, 2010 10:13 PM | Report abuse

The blowoff in the Timor Sea (shallow water well off Australia) took about 2 months to stop, and that was through a relief well. If I remember correctly, this spill was something like 500 bbl/day.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Everyone knew they should not have cut that crimp off. Stick five or ten cannulas up the old riser that is what cannulas do. Shove so many in there the oil has nowhere else to go, but cut the top off?

I hate to always go back to Nancy Kerrigan, but cue it...

Posted by: shrink2 | June 4, 2010 10:07 PM | Report abuse

BBC is reporting 12,000-19,000 bbl/day, which is about 1/2 million to 3/4 million gallons/day.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 10:04 PM | Report abuse

46% disapproval rating for RoboPresident- that's all before we created 40,000 noncensus jobs this month instead of the 400,000 that were expected- AND Obama said it was evidence of strong growth- the unemployment # actually went DOWN!

(cause 300,000 people stopped looking for jobs!)

The point is that everyone expected a near V shaped recovery so Obama's approval rating was higher pre jobs major disappointment than it will be post disappointment....let alone what the poor job of throwing tar balls on the beach will do- 17,000 barrels a day after the slanty "cap" is placed (18,000 out a day with only 1,000 tapped off) till August- when the oil washes up in Miami the approval rating will sink like an oil plume.

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 10:00 PM | Report abuse

So, 12BB and the Great Cannoli are arguing about 2%?
-------------------------------
I admit it, that was dumb. 2% is not the issue, for Gawd's sake, it's within the margin of error.

Homersexual. Bwahahaha!!!!!!!! I missed that. Good one.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Remember when they had the cannula in there, that little "insertion tube"? They claimed that was sucking up 5k bbl a day. Now this disaster is touted as progress for sucking up 1k, even as the total flow is...who knows? No one will hazard a guess anymore, smart people are running for the exits.

Look at this catastrophe.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 4, 2010 9:57 PM | Report abuse

@shrink,

That does look bad, doesn't it. I was watching when they put the hat on, and believe it or not, the plume was MUCH worse than it is now. You can see the fins on the hat now.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:55 PM | Report abuse

So, 12BB and the Great Cannoli are arguing about 2%? Incidentally, the most accurate point of reference would be Reagan in 1982 (2 years into presidency, during an ugly recession). Of course, perspective is severely lacking around here, so I await slating from all sides. That and 37th calling me a homersexual (well, I used to be, but haven't watched the Simpsons in ages; now I'm a petersexual).

BB

Posted by: FairlingtonBlade | June 4, 2010 9:53 PM | Report abuse


Oh, I see it's poor READING comprehension! I said- please reread my posts s-l-o-w-l-y- 46% DISapproval rating and you were wrong again, reading to yourself Approval!

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 9:45 PM
-----------------------------------
Oh, you're right. 46% DISAPPROVAL rating. And your point was, if I remember it correctly, that because Obama has a 46% DISAPPROVAL rating, then...Actually, what was your point?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

This fail is worse than the others.
This flow is obviously so much greater than it used to be out of the crimped pipe.

http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/incident_response/STAGING/local_assets/html/Skandi_ROV2.html

Posted by: shrink2 | June 4, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Oh, I see it's poor READING comprehension! I said- please reread my posts s-l-o-w-l-y- 46% DISapproval rating and you were wrong again, reading to yourself Approval!

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 9:45 PM | Report abuse

cannula,

where is the 46% approval.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:44 PM | Report abuse

And you can count me among those who will never vote for GWB again.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 9:31 PM
------------------------------------
Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kind of giving up the sleeves out of your vest, wouldn't you say?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:42 PM | Report abuse

@12Bar- I was trying to be polite, but you ARE a dolt!

Date Sample Approve Disapprove Spread
RCP Average 5/15 - 6/3 -- 47.8 45.9 +1.9
Gallup 6/1 - 6/3 1547 A 48 45 +3
Rasmussen Reports 6/1 - 6/3 1500 LV 48 52 -4
CBS News 5/20 - 5/24 1054 A 47 43 +4
Quinnipiac 5/19 - 5/24 1914 RV 48 43 +5
CNN/Opinion Research 5/21 - 5/23 1023 A 51 46 +5
NBC News 5/20 - 5/23 700 A 48 45 +3
FOX News 5/18 - 5/19 900 RV 45 46 -1
Democracy Corps (D) 5/15 - 5/18 1000 RV 47 47 Tie

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 9:41 PM | Report abuse

@thecannula,

What the hell do you think I was looking at for the polling? It was Real Clear Politics. And not one of those polls has him at 46% and RCP politics does not average him to 46%. So where do you get 46%?

If you guys beat up on me when I say 50% and it's 48%, why are you surprised when I challenge you when you shave it another 2 points?

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:37 PM | Report abuse

joelinpdx wrote: Damn, you idiots just won't give up will you?

Was George W. Bush a lousy president? Yes he was.

Does that give you the right to keep bringing him up...over and over and over? No it doesn't.
----------------------------------
I keep thinking that joel is kidding. He writes this like it's a kid's game with each side taking turns.

If we can't talk about the lousy President Bush after a mere 17 months, what ARE we "allowed" to talk about? Lord, this is politics, not Chutes and Ladders. We'll be talking about President Bush 20 years from now.

And Joel thinks we should admit that President Obama is terrible (not that we do think that) after a mere 17 months. It took 8 years for the awfulness of President Bush to become evident in his under 30% approval rating. But, Obama with a 48% approval rating should somehow be condemned after 17 months.

Unbelievable.
----------------------------------
Let me repeat my point and correct my numbers, thanks to the sharp eyes of Brigade.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse

48% beats under 30% approval for GWB every day of the week.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:23 PM
----------

And you can count me among those who will never vote for GWB again.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Bigger discrepancy-

40,000 noncensus jobs created in May

400,000 expected- and Obama says it's a sign of strength!

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Real Clear Politics Average TODAY-

Obama approve 47.8

Disapprove 45.9

next question- isn't it time we pushed BP aside 12 Bar?

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 9:28 PM | Report abuse

48% beats under 30% approval for GWB every day of the week.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:23 PM | Report abuse

Oh, sorry, huge discrepancy. The last two polls, Rasmussen and Gallup have him @48%.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:13 PM
-------

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. 50% will beat 48% any day of the week.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

46% disapproval rating for RoboPresident
----------------------------------
What's your source? I'm looking at the last 8 polls and not one of them is 46% approval.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:21 PM | Report abuse

46% disapproval rating for RoboPresident- that's all before we created 40,000 noncensus jobs this month instead of the 400,000 that were expected- AND Obama said it was evidence of strong growth- the unemployment # actually went DOWN!

(cause 300,000 people stopped looking for jobs!)

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Berry and King got the death sentence. The import of your story remains, Brigade, despite your error on the detail. A "Hate Crime" bill passed the Lege after the Byrd truck dragging lynching, but GWB [correctly, IMO] opposed it. It was later signed by Perry.

We give out the death penalty pretty easily here.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 4, 2010 9:18 PM | Report abuse

Oh, sorry, huge discrepancy. The last two polls, Rasmussen and Gallup have him @48%.

The prior 6 polls range from 51% to 45%.

So, I guess 50% is way far off.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Brigade


Clearly Obama made the commitment to the American People that he could do better than Bush did in Katrina.

Obama has already failed according to that standard.

In Katrina, the democrats were complaining after 3 days - we are not in day 45 and Obama has had time to prepare - he still has not got it right.

Obama promised better - HE CAN NOT DELIVER.

OBAMA'S ADMINISTRATION IS NOTHING BUT A PATHETIC ATTEMPT TO JAM THROUGH A LEFT WING AGENDA UNDER FALSE PROMISES.

The simple acts of governing Obama is apparently completely incapable of.


What is with the golf, the vacations, the rock concerts ??


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 4, 2010 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Oh, Bob- You There?

"We are the strongest country in the world, with the best military...."

...and as a result we should be able to stop an oil gusher in 5000 ft of water drilled by a private company? Where is the connection or logic of this type of argument?

Posted by: BobSanderson | June 4, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Well, Bob Sanderson, the logic in this argument can be found in the press briefing Allen gave yesterday as reported in the NY times- The wrong saw was used by the private company so the seal could not be tight-oooooops- why don't we have our Navy deep sea subs- -the ones that tap cables on the bottom of the sea and have been reported to dive as far as 35,000 ft(check it on Wikipedia) assist in tapping this well- the robots (see Robocop prototypes) aren't doing so well are they Bob....oh, Bob do you know that in Alaska you can still step in the mud and find oil so many years later- so the Keys are private now? Belong to BP? OR SHOULD WE PROTECT OUR OWN COUNTRY Bob?

Oil spilling out of the well on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico-

12,000-19,000 barrels a day

Amount being siphoned by new cap on the slanted cut/loose

seal-

1,000 barrels a day

Days of massive oil spillage-

49 and counting till at best August


Number of US Sailors, Marines, Soldiers actively involved in

sealing the leak-

0

Value of a seasoned leader at a time of historic national crisis-


Priceless (and wanting)

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 9:11 PM | Report abuse

12BarBlues wrote,
"But, Obama with a 50% approval rating . . "
-------

We aren't fudging the numbers a bit are we?

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 9:09 PM | Report abuse

It was an interesting professional view of a campaign and it had almost nothing to do with policy. I add this, b/c perhaps it no longer makes a difference what policies one argues but only how one exploits the opponent's perceived weakness.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 4, 2010 8:48 PM
-------

Policies are important, but perception is important, too. This is why Obama is having trouble. People want to see a little more passion. They want a leader not a college professor.

"how one exploits the opponent's perceived weakness" gets right to negative campaigning. People say they don't like it, but they often respond to it. I have no problem with it as long as it's relevant and accurate, but sometimes it's not. I remember Bush43's first campaign when the NAACP ran an add about a black man being dragged behind a pickup. Bush was a racist because, as governor, he hadn't pushed for the execution of those who actually killed the man. All they got was life in prison. Of course the NAACP is supposed to be against the death penalty. You're from Texas, so you remember. That was negative campaigning at its worst.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 9:06 PM | Report abuse

OBAMA is doing worse now than Bush was doing during Katrina

During Katrina, the democrats were COMPLAINING ABOUT BUSH AFTER 3 DAYS.

We are on DAY 45 RIGHT NOW AND OBAMA STILL CAN NOT GET IT RIGHT.

Obama is a complete disaster.


What is worse - is the democrats just spent the last 5 YEARS TELLING THE COUNTRY THEY COULD DO BETTER THAN BUSH -

guess what ?

Obama is NOW DOING A WORSE JOB THAN BUSH.


This is MORE THAN OBAMA'S KATRINA -

THIS OIL SPILL HAS DESTROY ALL OF OBAMA'S CREDIBILITY - ALL OF THE CREDIBILITY OF THE DEMOCRATS


Obama really looks bad going down to Louisiana and pretending he is doing something.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 4, 2010 9:02 PM | Report abuse

joelinpdx wrote: Damn, you idiots just won't give up will you?

Was George W. Bush a lousy president? Yes he was.

Does that give you the right to keep bringing him up...over and over and over? No it doesn't.
----------------------------------
I keep thinking that joel is kidding. He writes this like it's a kid's game with each side taking turns.

If we can't talk about the lousy President Bush after a mere 17 months, what ARE we "allowed" to talk about? Lord, this is politics, not Chutes and Ladders. We'll be talking about President Bush 20 years from now.

And Joel thinks we should admit that President Obama is terrible (not that we do think that) after a mere 17 months. It took 8 years for the awfulness of President Bush to become evident in his under 30% approval rating. But, Obama with a 50% approval rating should somehow be condemned after 17 months.

Unbelievable.

Posted by: 12BarBlues | June 4, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

The democrats are EATING CROW THIS WEEK.

Clearly everything the democrats said about Katrina was just politics - all truth which anyone gave them credit for is simply out the window now.

All the whining of the democrats - all the attitude - everything they said that they COULD DO BETTER - ALL THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE WRONG -

Instead of the democrats knowing better than Bush - they now LOOK WORSE THAN BUSH.

The democrats appear like they have ARROGANCE WHICH DRAGS THEM DOWN.


Katrina has indeed become a weight around the necks of the democrats - now the democrats, instead of knowing what to do better, just look like they shoot off their mouths and there is NOTHING BEHIND ANY OF THEIR WORDS.

Obama is BEING HELD TO THE STANDARD HE PERSONALLY SET DURING KATRINA - AND OBAMA IS FAILING MISERABLY.


OBAMA IS ACTUALLY MAKING BUSH LOOK GOOD NOW.

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 4, 2010 8:54 PM | Report abuse


Well, Bob Sander, the logic in this argument can be found in the press briefing Allen gave yesterday as reported in the NY times- The wrong saw was used by the private company so the seal could not be tight-oooooops- why don't we have our Navy deep sea subs- -the ones that tap cables on the bottom of the sea and have been reported to dive as far as 35,000 ft(check it on Wikipedia) assist in tapping this well- the robots (see Robocop prototypes) aren't doing so well are they Bob....oh, Bob do you know that in Alaska you can still step in the mud and find oil so many years later- so the Keys are private now? Belong to BP? OR SHOULD WE PROTECT OUR OWN COUNTRY Bob?

Oil spilling out of the well on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico-

12,000-19,000 barrels a day

Amount being siphoned by new cap on the slanted cut/loose

seal-

1,000 barrels a day

Days of massive oil spillage-

49 and counting till at best August


Number of US Sailors, Marines, Soldiers actively involved in

sealing the leak-

0

Value of a seasoned leader at a time of historic national crisis-


Priceless (and wanting)

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 8:53 PM | Report abuse

turning around a huge bureaucracy given the state Bush left them in. If you think it is possible then you have never run anything operation of any size. I ran a business with 3,500 employees.

Save the bluster and take the welfare of the nation into consideration.

Posted by: BobSanderson | June 4, 2010 8:33 PM
-------

At least I appreciate the (somewhat) level-headed response. These huge bureaucracies were not staffed with Bush partisans. Sure, he picked his cabinet, just as Obama did. But most of these government agencies are staffed with career civil servants and, I'm sorry to say, are much less efficient than they should be. It's too late for Obama to say he just hadn't got around to cleaning house.

His policies in Iraq and Afghanistan are not all that different from the Bush policies, which is why we now hear precious little complaining now about the wars.

As far as the economy goes, Obama asked for the job. The country gave him the job and a good majority in Congress. And now the country wants to see progress. Whether or not it's all fair and no matter who's fault it is, the voters do not want to keep hearing about George Bush. They just want results; and yes, they can be very impatient.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 8:49 PM | Report abuse

About Davis losing in black counties, I offer some anecdotal evidence from TX, or at least, from Austin.
Black voters do not automatically vote for black candidates any more than white voters automatically vote for white candidates. Suffice to say, for most, the candidate who does not share the skin color of the voter has to be seen as more than marginally better than the same race candidate, but that is often enough the case as to be unremarkable [at least, here].

Thus I am curious about the thrust of Ron Sparks' campaign in comparison to Davis'. I know this is a relative "gaming" site - politics as horse race - but if we have any Alabamans who can compare the two candidates on their apparent substance, please comment. If you do, tell us about the R, as well, and whether that shapes up as a race or not.
============================
This morning I visited with Ben Barnes, once the Lt. Gov., and he told me he had visited with Bill White about how to run against Perry. It was an interesting professional view of a campaign and it had almost nothing to do with policy. I add this, b/c perhaps it no longer makes a difference what policies one argues but only how one exploits the opponent's perceived weakness. And in that case, it would not ultimately be relevant if Sparks is the better candidate than Davis.

Posted by: mark_in_austin | June 4, 2010 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Obama's plan to cook the books with temporary census workers was caught before 8 AM.


Obama is falling apart -


The country needs a statement from Obama that HIS APPOINTEES AT MMS WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LACK OF PROPER SAFETY AND ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS.


OBAMA GAVE BP THE PERMIT FOR THIS OIL RIG.


Clearly Obama took almost a million dollars in campaign cash from BP.


Clearly, this is a mess.


What did Obama say at the press conference ?


Still only six sand barriers are being built.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 4, 2010 8:47 PM | Report abuse

"We are the strongest country in the world, with the best military...."

...and as a result we should be able to stop an oil gusher in 5000 ft of water drilled by a private company? Where is the connection or logic of this type of argument?

Posted by: BobSanderson | June 4, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse


'Okay. If you're going to be cooking all that meth, at least you should stop ingesting so much. Your posts are becoming more and more indecipherable. And take down that nude picture of Ho Chi Minh before you wear yourself out.

Posted by: Brigade'


Spoken like a true projector... but I suggest the pic is Ronald Reagan.

Posted by: drindl | June 4, 2010 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Brigade:

Being able to type on a blog or just being a fiery partisan is no substitute for thinking clearly.

Take a careful look at the list I provided and ask yourself honestly if a fix to any of the items on the list is possible in 17 months. I am not talking something as complex as passing legislation with people like yourself in Congress but actually turning around a huge bureaucracy given the state Bush left them in. If you think it is possible then you have never run anything operation of any size. I ran a business with 3,500 employees.

Save the bluster and take the welfare of the nation into consideration.

Posted by: BobSanderson | June 4, 2010 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Tony Hayward notes that while sticks and stones might break his bones, words will never hurt him. Developing ...

Posted by: Noacoler | June 4, 2010 8:29 PM | Report abuse


Obama's administration approved the well, his MMS didn't oversee it, this is day 49 and he still allows BP to try the 4th attempt at saving the gulf coast this week, he allows the wrong saw to make the cuts on the well- so there cannot be a tight seal- because the diamond blades are dulled from previous use- his Navy sits on the sidelines doing nothing to attempt to stop this historic leak and resulting devastation- in NYC one can be arrested for abusing a dog but Louisiana thousands of seabirds are being strangled in oil and the President of BP is making commercials-Obama makes lovely speeches and throws tar balls on the beach- We are the strongest country in the world, with the best military but we have an author/orator/community organizer for a leader and our children and their children's children will suffer for our poor choice in 2008.

Posted by: thecannula | June 4, 2010 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Uh, by his own admission, zouk-gade, not fantasy. Try to keep up mmmK?

Posted by: Noacoler | June 4, 2010 8:00 PM
-----

Okay. If you're going to be cooking all that meth, at least you should stop ingesting so much. Your posts are becoming more and more indecipherable. And take down that nude picture of Ho Chi Minh before you wear yourself out.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 8:20 PM | Report abuse

DDAWD wrote,
"Of course, the Nobel Prize is skewed liberal . . . "

-------

Now, whatever gave you that idea? Certainly you're not implying that Obama didn't do anything to deserve his prize. And what about Al Gore and Jimmie Carter? The world's most certainly a better place because they passed this way.

And don't dare suggest that Yasser Arafat didn't deserve a Nobel prize! I just won't listen to that kind of talk!

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 8:15 PM | Report abuse

"Oh, on the contrary, all the great economists are Democrats. And the country's going down the tubes because Obama is so capable and has such a great team. I think you're the one who could use some education. Unless, of course, you plan on becoming a teacher.

Posted by: Brigade"

Well, Krugman won a Nobel Prize, but he's a Bush fan, I guess.

Of course, the Nobel Prize is skewed liberal just like journalists, wikipedia, chinese food, youtube, science, book reviews, hitler, gandhi, mao, mother teresa, penguins, polar bears, volcanoes, babies, pork rinds, coffee, tea, milt, doughnuts, fingerprints, and that birthmark on my left heiney.

Posted by: DDAWD | June 4, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

looking, looking, looking, hmmm...where is that 0% tax bracket?

Posted by: DDAWD | June 4, 2010 7:55 PM
-------

For those of you who fit the category of bustout, it isn't actually a zero bracket; it's an unearned tax credit. You get more back than you paid in. What an idiot.
Worship me, not Obama. I'm supporting you and several more like you

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Here's one of this week's losers.

The Dems' favored candidate to oppose Chuck Grassley is making headlines again: "CONLIN'S TAX CREDITS TOTAL 64.2 MILLION IN 19 YEARS." And this is another of the hypocrites who are always whining about "tax breaks for the rich."

She got into the same kind of trouble when she ran for governor, back even before the public inebriation episode. You see, Dems are actually the party of trickle down economics; just worship at the feet of the rich and powerful ones and they'll see that the government provides you with a few scraps to keep you going---as long as they're not the ones paying the taxes.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Uh, by his own admission, zouk-gade, not fantasy. Try to keep up mmmK?

Posted by: Noacoler | June 4, 2010 8:00 PM | Report abuse

looking, looking, looking, hmmm...where is that 0% tax bracket?

Posted by: DDAWD | June 4, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Losers:

GA Gubernatorial candidate Nimrata Randhawa aka "Nikki Haley"

Mrs. Phalin (who endorsed Nimrata)

State Senator Jake Knotts (who insulted Nimrata)

Larry Marchant and Will Folks (both of whom, er, "communed" with Nimrata...allegedly)

Rand Paul (natch)

The Fix (for at least four posts pushing the anti-BHO Sestak/Romanoff fake controversy without winning a Drudge link, sad)

"Mrs." Mary Carillo (for ruining more pro tennis broadcasts than anyone in TV history)

"Mrs." Doris Burke (the Mary Carillo of NBA broadcasts)

BHO's political/communications team, totally M-I-A

"Mr." Billie Jean King

The fake 37

Posted by: broadwayjoe | June 4, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse

It's so cute seeing conservatives trying to talk economics. It like almost makes you want to go out and buy them a book or something.

Aww, you think recession deficits and prosperity deficits are the same? That's so adorable!

Posted by: DDAWD | June 4, 2010 7:41 PM
-------
Oh, on the contrary, all the great economists are Democrats. And the country's going down the tubes because Obama is so capable and has such a great team. I think you're the one who could use some education. Unless, of course, you plan on becoming a teacher.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Meanwhile, the political pressures are building for Obama to give the nation what the MEDIA SAYS THE NATION REALLY NEEDS: A PHOTO OP OF OBAMA HUGGING A FISHERMAN.


You see- somehow the media is building up steam - building up pressure - because the NATION HAS NOT YET SEEN OBAMA HUG A FISHERMAN ON TV.


As if that will soak up all the oil in the few seconds it takes for that photo op to show up on every tv in the country.


No, it doesn't work that way.


The OIL IS MOVING TOO SLOWLY FOR THE MEDIA TO CREATE ADEQUATELY COMPELLING STORYLINES.


The Anchors have an hour each which they have to fill EVERY DAY.


The OIL IS JUST MOVING TOO SLOWLY FOR THE MEDIA STORYLINE-TELLING COMMUNITY.


They have to CREATE A STORY: Obama is not doing ENOUGH TO CREATE PHOTO-OPS.


What is WRONG WITH A OBAMA, HE MUST BE TONE-DEAF - HE JUST ISN'T DOING ENOUGH TO FILL THE MEDIA'S AIRTIME WITH PHOTO-OPS, STORYLINES AND DRAMA.


Maybe they could have a show-down between Hayward and Obama - some sort of SMACK-DOWN ON THE BEACH -


Obama can scream, "Look at this tar-ball"- and Hayward can pretend to care -


AND then Obama can scream - "you better care"


And Hayward can say "I care"


Then Obama can say "Not Enough"


Hayward can say "I care enough - it's you who doesn't care - you racist."


Obama says "I'm not a racist - you are the one with the British accent."


Then the two engage in a dramatic fist fight


The two have a SMACK DOWN - REPEATEDLY PUNCHING EACH OTHER AS THE WAVES CRASH ON THE BEACH and finally the two PHYSICALLY STRUGGLE and roll around in the sand - which causes the two of them to fall into the surf - as the waves wash over them,


Just as the two pause - and you think the two might kiss - the first oil drifts onto the beach.


NOW THAT WOULD BE GOOD TELEVISION.


.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 4, 2010 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Threadjack.
Noacoler wrote,
"the usual hero-worship. Just as a physician is the only professional person that humble people come into personal contact with so we always have TV shows about doctors .. a lot of Republicans are downwardly mobile failures who slobber over suits. When Mitt Romney centers his tie, seats get wet."
--------------------
It's always interesting to see Democrats ranting about the Republican party consisting of "downwardly mobile failures." I guess that's why Dems are always pushing and expanding social programs---they feel so sorry for those poor Republicans. But after a few more tokes, the same Dems will be whining about the "party of the rich."

Oddly enough, my lying eyes have convinced me that most of the country's deadbeats and most of those who rely on taxpayer funded charity (government programs) are Democrats. I remember chiding a friend who was an Edwards supporter after he attended one of the rallies. "Do these people want their taxes raised?" I asked.
"I don't think most of them pay taxes," he replied honestly.

I know there are a few wealthy Democrats, and others who actually work for a living, although, for many, the paychecks come from the taxpayer (government jobs).

Which party do you think is always fussing about wanting people to prove that they're eligible to vote? Hint: it doesn't start with a 'D'. And what about stupid? Which party cruises the ghettoes offering free smokes, cheap wine and "walking around money" to entice their intelligentsia to vote early and vote often?

How's the black community doing since Obama took office? Not so hot. But just keep licking his boots, and he'll make you feel good about yourselves, even though you won't have a pot---or a job. He can always find you a spot in the penitentiary.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 7:48 PM | Report abuse

Sorry Brigade


Ill have to post more

.

Posted by: 37thand0street | June 4, 2010 7:47 PM | Report abuse

My, a Friday night and Brigade is so busy... 5 posts in a row, is it? Kind of frantic, wouldn't you say? Lay off those little white pills that 37 gives you, they will make it even harder for you to, uh, connect with women.


.

And Mark Kirk so richly deserves this honor.

Posted by: drindl | June 4, 2010 7:44 PM | Report abuse

It's so cute seeing conservatives trying to talk economics. It like almost makes you want to go out and buy them a book or something.

Aww, you think recession deficits and prosperity deficits are the same? That's so adorable!

Posted by: DDAWD | June 4, 2010 7:41 PM | Report abuse

Don't you think after 17 months in office it's about time to stop pointing the finger at Bush and just admit the Great One sucks?

Posted by: joelinpdx | June 4, 2010 6:15 PM
-------
They must surely believe that Clinton was reponsible for 9/11 since it happened less than eight months after Bush took office.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Better an empty suit than a war criminal like his predecessor

Posted by: Noacoler | June 4, 2010 6:02 PM
-------

Since we KNOW Obama is an empty suit and the charge that Bush is a war criminal is merely liberal fantasy, I guess I'll go with the "war criminal."

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

So, it being later on Friday, isn't it time for BP to turn the magic valves and almost but not entirely stop the oil flow they caused and then badly exacerbated when they cut the bent riser off? Just askin'...

Posted by: shrink2 | June 4, 2010 6:54 PM
-------

Don't worry. It won't be long until Obama actually may be able to walk on the water in the gulf. But the fish and birds are having a helluva time.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

1) An economy in shambles

2) 2 international wars not budgeted for

3) no effective immigration or health
care policy

4) deregulated and disemboweled bureaucracies to oversee wall street, oil and mining exploration, food and drug and just about all government agencies

5) A huge budget deficit

6) Widespread International loathing for our country and our policies

Posted by: BobSanderson | June 4, 2010 6:52 PM
-------
Sorry, Bobby. The loathing has increased.
The debt is increasing by an estimated five million a day under Obama.

Economy still in shambles; two wars going on. Doubled down in Afghanistan. Still no money to pay for it.

Grossly derelict on enforcing immigration law. Issued permits and waivers to BP leading to disaster in the gulf. Passed a great new entitlement that most voters want repealed.

Step away from your keyboard for a minute, Bob. Crouch down and pull vigorously on your neck. That loud pop you'll hear will be your head coming out of your butt.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Why is it he hasn't done more given so much help and so little to do?

Posted by: BobSanderson | June 4, 2010 6:52 PM
-------

He hasn't gotten cooperation from Republicans because he is the most partisan, devisive president in history.

The reason things are getting worse despite his having huge majorities in both houses of Congress is because he is grossly incompetent. And don't think Democrats aren't beginning to notice. It isn't only David Broder wondering why the gang who ran such a successful campaign are overmatched trying to govern.

Bad economic report out today. All that stimulus money right down the toilet. Good luck in November---not.

Posted by: Brigade | June 4, 2010 7:10 PM | Report abuse

"Its a dog-eat-dog world out there and the President is wearing Milk Bone underwear."

-Norm!

Posted by: margaretmeyers | June 4, 2010 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Joel in Portland,
which Bush/Cheney clone will your party be running in 2012? We don't want you back.

Posted by: shrink2 | June 4, 2010 7:01 PM | Report abuse

So, it being later on Friday, isn't it time for BP to turn the magic valves and almost but not entirely stop the oil flow they caused and then badly exacerbated when they cut the bent riser off? Just askin'...

Posted by: shrink2 | June 4, 2010 6:54 PM | Report abuse

Yes - It has been almost 17 months but the Republicans truly have been excellent partners in the national interest helping to fix what Bush left as an inheritance:

1) An economy in shambles

2) 2 international wars not budgeted for

3) no effective immigration or health
care policy

4) deregulated and disemboweled bureaucracies to oversee wall street, oil and mining exploration, food and drug and just about all government agencies

5) A huge budget deficit

6) Widespread International loathing for our country and our policies

Why is it he hasn't done more given so much help and so little to do?

Posted by: BobSanderson | June 4, 2010 6:52 PM | Report abuse

What about Fred Malek? All these years and people are still reminding him that he is...Fred Malek.

Posted by: DDAWD | June 4, 2010 6:41 PM | Report abuse

What about Fred Malek? All these years and people are still reminding him that he is...Fred Malek.

Posted by: DDAWD | June 4, 2010 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Damn, you idiots just won't give up will you?

Was George W. Bush a lousy president? Yes he was.

Does that give you the right to keep bringing him up...over and over and over? No it doesn't.

My question is this. When the Obamanator runs for re-election in 2012...if he dares run... will you doffuses still be blaming it all on Bush. Will the reason the Obamanation was such a horrible president be because of Bush?

Don't you think after 17 months in office it's about time to stop pointing the finger at Bush and just admit the Great One sucks?

Posted by: joelinpdx | June 4, 2010 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Damn, you idiots just won't give up will you?

Was George W. Bush a lousy president? Yes he was.

Does that give you the right to keep bringing him up...over and over and over? No it doesn't.

My question is this. When the Obamanator runs for re-election in 2012...if he dares run... will you doffuses still be blaming it all on Bush. Will the reason the Obamanation was such a horrible president be because of Bush?

Don't you think after 17 months in office it's about time to stop pointing the finger at Bush and just admit the Great One sucks?

Posted by: joelinpdx | June 4, 2010 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Better an empty suit than a war criminal like his predecessor

Posted by: Noacoler | June 4, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

the problem being the "next obama " is that we are learning the "current " one is an empty suit

Posted by: newagent99 | June 4, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse


The winner is Paul McCartney.

He sang Michelle my Belle and sounded terrible.

But the gesture was nice.

Posted by: TheBabeNemo | June 4, 2010 5:17 PM | Report abuse

in Washington??????

Posted by: BobSanderson | June 4, 2010 4:50 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
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