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Posted at 12:00 AM ET, 01/21/2011

Take heart

By Tom Toles

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Be sure to check out my State of the Union Cartoon Caption Contest, now through Jan. 24.
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Friday rant: Mind games edition

Well, Tea Partyers! How are your newly elected friends doing with that deficit reduction agenda of yours? What?? Tax cut extensions that make the deficit BIGGER?? Trying to repeal the health-care law, when repeal would make the deficit BIGGER??? But, but, but! They furrow their brows in concern JUST THE SAME WAY YOU DO! That ought to count for something! Just not anything in the actual budget.

Crazy thought experiment. Suppose you were a really rich guy who, for rigorous "philosophical" reasons, didn't like the idea of progressive taxation all of a sudden. And just suppose that you not only were rich, but that your riches were mushrooming out of all proportion to what rich people had in anyone's memory. And suppose that your financial derring-do had shattered the national economy and left everyone else reeling. Now, you might think that eventually people could start casting a gimlet eye in your direction.

What you MIGHT do under those circumstances would be to find a DIVERSIONARY target for the hapless to focus on. The DEFICIT! And the VERY LIBERALS who would TAX YOU! Call them socialists and power-mad maniacs! Get the very people who are hurting stirred up against the very people who might tax YOU! A twofer! A Daily Double! Of course I'm not in any way suggesting that anyone would be as cynical as that. Just saying that if you thought you were electing people to cut the deficit and somehow they seemed strangely more interested in cutting taxes for the rich, yet again, one might pause for just one second, and wonder.... --Tom Toles
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By Tom Toles  | January 21, 2011; 12:00 AM ET
Categories:  GOP, Health care  
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Comments

"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' But If it has any authority at all, for the record, the biblical words of Jesus were, "I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also (Matt 5:38-39)... You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for which despitefully use you and persecute you (Matt 5:43-44)...

and this is the best part: "For if you love them which love you... and if you salute your brethren only, how are you any different than anyone else? (Matt 5: 46-47)

It's a hard walk to walk, and doesn't really leave room for justifying much of anything in the way of people who name themselves followers of Jesus to be retributively (or otherwise) acting exactly like the people they despise.

It's a pretty wild statement, by no means Christ-like and obviously not accurate that, "It is Liberals that do not believe in God and try to remove him from all public display."
It may be accurate to say that almost all of those who oppose requiring everyone in the country to subsidize religion with their tax dollars leans liberal, but not requiring everyone in the country to subsidize religion with their tax dollars is not the same as trying to remove him from all public display. The idea is not to have to SUBSIDIZE religious displays with taxpayer funds.

Nobody, to my knowledge... absolutely nobody in this country, has suggested that
religious images be forbidden from public display. To assert otherwise is again less than accurate.

Besides, isn't it more than just a teensy bit ironic that people seem to be so insistent about making a graven image of a document that forbids graven images?

But, seriously, can anyone document an instance of any sort of legal action being brought which would forbid a religious display by a religious organization on that organization's own property, paid for by funds raised by that organization? Of course not.

Posted by: jonroesler | January 23, 2011 8:00 PM | Report abuse

ahh but dave...I chose to Pinch you not hit you. none the less, thanks for a bit of clarity concerning your 'belief system'...don't quite get the first half of your post....:) tho it made for an interesting read.

Posted by: bertzel | January 23, 2011 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Care to turn the other cheek? I’d be happy to do it again!!
Hope it leaves a mark…
Posted by: bertzel

I have been hit too many times to turn the other cheek. When I was fourteen years old I was nearly killed by a sailor. I was ice skating and his girl friend was flirting with me. I did not know that they were together. He knocked me down from behind and jumped me. He hit me in the face so hard that my head broke through the ice.
If someone tried to hit me, I would stop their blow and give them a chance to change their mind. If they continued fighting I would do what ever was necessary to stop them.
I do not take all of Christ's teachings literally.
When it comes to conservative and/or liberal; I do not agree with either one on several issues.
The Christian right Republican liberals are so wrong it is pathetic. The last ten years has been devastating because of their madness.
I hope there is a cure before this nation is torn apart by the madness.
We are in desperate need of change before we self-destruct and the madness is drowning out any chance of change.
Dave

Posted by: OchamsRazor | January 23, 2011 12:44 AM | Report abuse

R U suggesting I am talking stupid daly?
bertzel

I thought I was agreeing with you that I had been talking stupid. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 22, 2011 10:59 PM | Report abuse

~~~conceding to your point or argument ~~~

How do you misunderstand these words bert.

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 22, 2011 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Dear God, I am so thankful that I do not have multiple personalities, bert.

Posted by: bertzel | January 22, 2011 9:29 PM | Report abuse

R U suggesting I am talking stupid daly?
Just because you do not understand something does not make it stupid....

The way I see it...you are blind.

Posted by: bertzel | January 22, 2011 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Karma is a Hindu philosophy not a religion.

I was making a little joke (car ran over my dog) conceding to your point or argument re. stupid talk

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 22, 2011 5:26 PM | Report abuse

gee, thought I was speaking in English.
Lost in translation?

Posted by: bertzel | January 22, 2011 5:17 PM | Report abuse

I am not Buddhist daly... is that not a religion?
I don't believe in religion period.
I read the 'masters' but do not practice per se. Tho I have found I do agree with some of their teachings and insight.
Mainly the insight.

Posted by: bertzel | January 22, 2011 5:09 PM | Report abuse

'words' I think that was all greek to me !!

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 22, 2011 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Your Karma ran over my Dogma !!

It is not an easy decision. Religion can be an impediment to spirituality.

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 22, 2011 4:58 PM | Report abuse

~~Bruise? from what??

Posted by: dalyplanet~~

speaking of tough nuts...
oh wait...wrong thread.

Posted by: bertzel | January 22, 2011 4:54 PM | Report abuse

"And, do you also understand that she must suffer through the attitudes of the religious pro-lifers??? The guilt that "they" will "make" her develop and live with for the rest of her life? (control comes to mind)
And that not all doctors will perform such medical treatment? And will also flat out tell her why they won't. Again, more bogus accusations.

So either way it is not a decision made lightly is it?

I am not speaking for myself here...just generalizing...I do that when trying to make a point.

Posted by: bertzel | January 22, 2011 4:49 PM | Report abuse

the wild west days are gone bert, nanny state rules now, so will have to count on the 'Justice System' for punishment in this case. I am not holding my breath tho.

Bruise? from what??

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 22, 2011 4:43 PM | Report abuse

~By vivilante or through the Justice System?~~~

Fast fingers again...my bad...

By Vigilante or through the Justice System?

My choice of 'words' bother you daly?
Just asking? chuckle..


Posted by: bertzel | January 22, 2011 4:32 PM | Report abuse

~~on the other side of the coin tho The doctor performing those horrible late term partial birth abortions deserves death.
pragmatic view

Posted by: dalyplanet~~~

By vivilante or through the Justice System?

Posted by: bertzel | January 22, 2011 4:28 PM | Report abuse

since ya asked before bert (not me directly) I will tell ya so ya know where I stand and no BS. I believe it is better for a pregnant 12 year old to have a medical procedure than suffer her lost childhood and societies attitudes.

on the other side of the coin tho The doctor performing those horrible late term partial birth abortions deserves death.

pragmatic view

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 22, 2011 4:21 PM | Report abuse

No. I just don't care for 'stupid talk'.
Got a bruise there daly...here's hoping!

Posted by: bertzel | January 22, 2011 4:17 PM | Report abuse

I am an eye for an eye type bert.

I get tired of the liberal moral superiority argument though.

somthin' in that post touch a nerve bert ? got a scab or a scar ?

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 22, 2011 4:02 PM | Report abuse

~~~Dave

I respectfully disagree. It is Liberals that label and promote racial differences, Liberals that do not believe in God and try to remove him from all public display. It is Liberals that promote choice when it comes to pregnancy rather than restraint, Liberals that believe that forced giving is preferable to true charity.Conservatives give twice as much as liberals to charity, Conservatives that volunteer to help the poor, Conservatives that hold together the moral fabric of America.
Posted by: dalyplanet~~~

I was just sending this out to dave but after reading your post daly, I'll include you as well...now you match!!!

Pinch!!

Hey dave…did ya feel that?
TWIST!!!

Did you feel that dave?

Care to turn the other cheek? I’d be happy to do it again!!

Hope it leaves a mark…


Posted by: bertzel | January 22, 2011 3:20 PM | Report abuse

TT, in case you haven't noticed from this string (and many others in the past), the facts you present about the deficit don't matter. Actually, they become "non-facts" the minute they go against the conservative narrative.

Tax cuts for the rich increase the defict? *feed into the narrative-o-matic* No they don't.

Repeal of the health care law (with the cute title of "Repeal of the Job-Killing Health Care Act") will add to the deficit? *feed into the narrative-o-matic* We don't believe that for a minute. CBO is somehow a "liberal" group.

Republicans aren't actually doing a thing to help blue-collar folks? *feed into the narrative-o-matic* Of course they are! Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly and Limbaugh say they are all the time!

And on and on. As hard as it is to try to debate people who don't believe facts which butt up against their ideology, we still seem to try. For me, I suppose it's the teacher in me that hopes someday, that no matter how many times I drop the pencil in front of the class only to hear the class say they still don't believe in gravity...that one day, they may watch and say, "OH! NOW I get it!"

Posted by: PrairieDog60 | January 22, 2011 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Dave

I respectfully disagree. It is Liberals that label and promote racial differences, Liberals that do not believe in God and try to remove him from all public display. It is Liberals that promote choice when it comes to pregnancy rather than restraint, Liberals that believe that forced giving is preferable to true charity.

Conservatives give twice as much as liberals to charity, Conservatives that volunteer to help the poor, Conservatives that hold together the moral fabric of America.

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 22, 2011 1:08 PM | Report abuse


Just a Reminder...
Ideologies are the bodies of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of individuals, group, class or culture.

The ideology of Christ and the ideology of Conservatives are direct opposites.

The ideologies of Christ are universal good, compassion, loving kindness, generosity, empathy and life; that abundant.

The ideology of the conservatives is maliciousness, mean spiritedness, un-satiated greed, apathy, divisiveness and obstructionism.

I would think it would be obvious which one of these ideologies would provide people with the better life experience.
Dave

Posted by: OchamsRazor | January 22, 2011 12:44 PM | Report abuse

chase-truth

creative name calling is standard liberal operating procedure

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 22, 2011 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Toles, I love your cartoons, but something clicked with this one: the abuse of elephants to represent the GOP in our culture is an anachronism. Elephants are wise, thoughtful, social animals, everything the GOP is not. And they are sacred, so their use for this purpose is offensive. We need a new and more appropriate symbol for the GOP. I propose: the dinosaur.

Posted by: chase-truth | January 22, 2011 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Toles, I love your cartoons, but something clicked with this one: the abuse of elephants to represent the GOP in our culture is an anachronisms. Elephants are wise, thoughtful, social animals, everything the GOP is not. And they are sacred, so their use for this purpose is offensive. We need a new and more appropriate symbol for the GOP. I propose: the dinosaur.

Posted by: chase-truth | January 22, 2011 10:03 AM | Report abuse

What's the difference between the crowd at a tea party rally and the crowd at a pro wrestling event?

The tea party crowd has more teeth, and a lower cumulative IQ.

Posted by: fbrewer1 | January 22, 2011 2:24 AM | Report abuse


Just asking cause it seems that those uninsured were getting some care somehow before.
Posted by: dalyplanet

That was when being human was important to people and they took care of each other.
Now people are being programmed by the TV, Movies and video games to enjoy other people's poverty and pain. Maliciousness, meanness and sociopathic behavior have gone mainstream and are accepted behavior.
What is ironic is that conservative Christians are leading the band.
Now the number one anti-Christ; Gingrich is going to run for president.
I hope you are up to getting burned at the stake.
Dave


Posted by: OchamsRazor | January 22, 2011 1:48 AM | Report abuse

Is preventive care for millions of people more expensive than emergency room care for those same people over 25 years of life?

Posted by: redhead1990

I don't know because Minnesota has a good system that covers pretty much everyone fairly reasonably cost wise.

I know I am buying insurance from the guy that made 400 mil one year ( a really really really good Democrat ) so I am sure I paid too much and will pay more.

Employment based health insurance is a bad system from the start. Employers do not buy my auto insurance or home insurance.

I want to buy insurance across state lines to be in a different plan or pool than my states mandate.

What happened to major medical plans and pay for the small stuff myself.

This plan is another brick in the nanny state wall. What is happening to Land of the Free and Home of the Brave here in America

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 21, 2011 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Regarding your thought experiment on the diversionary tactics of the rich: You sound as though you're trying to reason with the Tea Party. By now it should be clear that the Tea Party is incapable of reason. In fact, the entire Republican Party has become incapable of reason. Republicans have longed waged war on minorities and the poor. For the last 30 years or more they have been waging war on the middle class. Now they are waging war in intelligence and reason.

Posted by: StarRiders | January 21, 2011 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Is preventive (preventative) care for millions of people more expensive than emergency room care for those same people over 25 years of life?

Posted by: redhead1990 | January 21, 2011 3:42 PM | Report abuse

~~~Your priorities are sick and will lead to the destruction of civilization based on the needs of human beings.
Dave~~~~


So what are ya sayin' Dave, That with ObamaCare no one will get sick and the average lifespan will increase 10 years??

Just asking cause it seems that those uninsured were getting some care somehow before.

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 21, 2011 3:11 PM | Report abuse

We WERE off-subject, right?

Posted by: jonroesler | January 21, 2011 3:04 PM | Report abuse

This thing about how modern immigrants should be learning the language just like all the other ones have really needs to have a historical sanity check. What? Or is every right-winger on this site descended from people who spoke English as a first language when they got here? (I suspect this is the case.)

Anyone who worked in manufacturing in the last century in any major industrial city in this country knows someone (or knows of someone) who immigrated from somewhere else and speaks their native language at home. Who is married to someone who also speaks that language. Who lives in a neighborhood filled with other people who also speak that language, and probably goes to a church where that language is spoken by at least a third of parishioners. It's called a "support system."
And I don't mean speakers of Spanish, only; I mean Poles, Hungarians, Chinese, Italians, Czechs, Indians, Somalians, Turks, and people from all over the world.

Farther out in the country, you will find the German and Scandinavian farmers who settled Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota and Nebraska. People whose churches, some of them, still held services in people's native languages at least until the end of the 20th century and some of which still do.

And, yes, almost all of these insisted that their born-in-the-USA children spoke English as a first language and encouraged those children to enlist in the military and defend this great country of ours when she was in peril, but also had enough pride in their heritage to show some respect for their elders who had not yet learned and to continue to support immigrants from wherever they happened to come from.

Where some of you people get off with this English-only nonsense I'll never know, but it's obvious you've either forgotten completely where you came from, or are descended from English-speaking immigrants (which does not make you any better than anyone else, by the way), or are just plain ignorant.

The biggest difference between immigrants now and immigrants 100 years ago is that, some of us, now that our forebears have done all the hard work, feel that we are somehow entitled to look down our noses at others who are JUST like the people we are descended from. You have either forgotten your roots, or have none, and either of those conditions is just sad.

Posted by: jonroesler | January 21, 2011 2:54 PM | Report abuse

"The facts will get out (see Krauthammer) and people will rebel against the liberal media's portrayal (betrayal actually) of the Obamacare law."
Posted by:ATrueChristian

My Reply...
If we can afford the filthy rich and a space program we can afford healing the sick.
Christ healed the blind and you are blind to human need. Not to mention sociopathic.
It is the Conservatives who are anti-Christ and malicious.
Your priorities are sick and will lead to the destruction of civilization based on the needs of human beings.
Dave


Posted by: OchamsRazor | January 21, 2011 2:37 PM | Report abuse

The real story today is the President hiring Jeff Immelt from GE to head his economic council.

That's like Conservative President hiring Rupert Murdoch for the same job.

The spirit of 'getting along' just ended with a crash.

Posted by: pararanger22 | January 21, 2011 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Keep telling the lies, Toles, someone may believe you. The fact of the matter is that the healthcare law raises taxes more than it costs to run the system, supposedly, anyway (I have my doubts, like most liberal spending plans, new taxes rarely cover new expenditures when the rubber meets the road). So, essentially, this is a "hidden" tax increase on the middle class (remember a large component is a tax on "cadillac plans" which are just as often provided to middle class as well as wealthy), although none of the liberal ilk have come out and admitted such. Because they know that the American people, once told the facts, will be even more against the healthcare bill and pro-repealing it. Just wait, Toles, the facts will get out (see Krauthammer) and people will rebel against the liberal media's portrayal (betrayal actually) of the Obamacare law.

Posted by: ATrueChristian | January 21, 2011 12:46 PM | Report abuse

This continual arguement about tax has become so silly it's barely worth commenting on any more.

OK....the feds cut your taxes....then what happens EVERY STINKING TIME THE DO CUT FEDERAL TAXES.

The states, counties, and local government taxes skyrocket in a competition to get YOUR MONEY.

Then what happens when the feds raise tax again....the states, counties, and local taxes stay the same, never go back down and everybody wonders where the hell their money went...OH YEAH. blame the federal government!!

There is only one way to even half way tax the people in this country fairly, and that is "AN ABILITY TO PAY" tax.

When unconsioius, unscrupulous taxers inside taxing entities in a nation, states, counties, and local governments sink so low and become so corrupt to a point where "people that have the least ability to pay" tax are going hungry because they have to pay their tax, or be penalized and in come rarer cases have therir proerty absconded or even imprisoned for failure to pay their taxes, something is very very wrong.

Posted by: thomas_pearson46 | January 21, 2011 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Every once in a while, I just have to say it:

I love you, Toles. Don't ever leave us. Don't ever change.

Posted by: dingogumby | January 21, 2011 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Pararanger22 - you really do need to get honest and stop lying.

Do you REALLY think you are the only military person on here? REALLY?

The military would in no way have allowed you to fly home to move your spouse. You have a job to do, and she ain't it.

Get lost, little boy.

Posted by: taroya | January 21, 2011 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Mr Toles leftist bias is disgusting. His cartoons lean further to the left that the Coriolis force around a low pressure system. But then again it's that same Coriolis force that make water in a toilet circle counter-clockwise and that's where most of Toles opinions belong.

Posted by: Arkygirl666 | January 21, 2011 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Mr Toles leftist bias is disgusting. His cartoon lean further to the left that the Coriolis force around a low pressure system. But then again it's that same Coriolis force that make water in a toilet circle counter-clockwise and that's where most of Toles opinions belong.

Posted by: Arkygirl666 | January 21, 2011 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Well, wondering involves thinking, kind of, and that's hard. Sarah and Glenn and Rush say liberals are bad and tax cuts are good and government is the problem. Just like Saint Ronnie. So it must be true. And that's about all the wondering we can handle without our heads exploding.

Posted by: Glassyeyes | January 21, 2011 11:15 AM | Report abuse

I am really trying to get a handle on this as it seems that Obama care is just a mandatory insurance bill. No real medical reform. I just don't know what the bill does. Please explain or point me somewhere.

Posted by: dalyplanet

=====================

This is a really good timeline that details what the bill includes and when it will be rolled out.

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/index.html

Posted by: dkp01 | January 21, 2011 11:04 AM | Report abuse

jw I am not really of an opinion on this subject much,-- except for the government forcing people that may want to, say, self insure to be buying, that sort of grates on my sensabilities but, -- where does the money come for the alleged masses that cannot afford the far too expensive policies. I am just wondering if my say $2200 per person X5 policy will go up say $400 per person to pay for that risk policy at $10,000 per year that is sick now but has not had insurance for various reasons for 25 years like myself.

I am really trying to get a handle on this as it seems that Obama care is just a mandatory insurance bill. No real medical reform. I just don't know what the bill does. Please explain or point me somewhere.

Posted by: dalyplanet

I understand your concerns, and even supporters of the bill would say it doesn't do enough to control costs. What it is is the best start we've had to dealing with the problem that the majority of Americans have felt for a long time needed to be dealt with. The fact that the world's only superpower can't manage to get health care to all its citizens is something to be ashamed of.

Look, what kind of bill that would address this problem could have realistically been passed? Government run or "public option" was off the table from the start for ideological reasons as well as cost concerns. What options are left? Forcing the privately owned (and, I might add, quite profitable) health insurance companies to take all these people that they don't really want to take. Is it fair to tell them they have to take people with preexisting conditions and then make it so people can wait until they're sick to get insurance so all it is is the insurance companies bleeding money? No, not at all. It's not fair to them and it's not fair to their customers who will see their rates go up. What's the best option to do address all this, both individual costs and getting already sick people accepted onto insurance rolls? Increase the pool. Those two issues are covered by making it mandatory. You tell me, what other option was there? What alternative has been put forth that would even come close to covering this many people?

This is the best law we could have come up with right now to address the problem in a serious way; to really make a dent in it. It is not perfect, but it does a pretty good job of starting; it will not cover EVERYBODY, but it comes real close.

In fact, I would argue that if we hadn't had the financial meltdown that meant the government HAD TO do a ton of spending, this wouldn't even be much of a debate. I think the law would be pretty popular under those circumstances really.

Will your personal costs go up or down as a result of this? I don't know, but what have they been doing without the law? They've been going up, that's what. Something must be done.

Posted by: jhnnywalkr | January 21, 2011 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Once again on the mark. Well done. I look forward to your cartoons and comments every day. Keep up the good work.

Posted by: caseyb1 | January 21, 2011 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: insightinc

["The fact is that more of our resources as a nation are being concentrated in the hands of the few--very bad for democracy. That concerns me more than people who don't speak English. My grandparents learned it when they came here, and it takes time."]

--------------------------

I think new immigrants should be given time to assimilate but the vast majority cling to their own circles where a new language isn't required. They don't have the persistence and patriotism of your Grandparents unfortunately.

Illegal immigrants have few incentives to assimilate. Why bother to learn more than the very basics of English?

Illegal immigration is crushing most Nations in Europe. Their laisse-faire attitude of the past presents them with harsh realities now of security and economic pain.

The other concern I have regarding immigration is the fact that folks who actually go through our painful process (I've known some of these folks) to get a green card are completely sold out. The process is very painful and takes a long time. Why should they do it when the the politicians on the Liberal side are always considering amnesty for our current tide of illegal immigrants?

Posted by: pararanger22 | January 21, 2011 7:29 AM | Report abuse

and just suppose Ted Kennedy was the Poe toaster? burp...

Posted by: billybeer6 | January 21, 2011 6:17 AM | Report abuse


You’re spot on, Tom! Republicans can now look under the cover the Democrats used to pass the Health Care Law! Thanks for the clarification!

Posted by: quiensabe | January 21, 2011 6:07 AM | Report abuse

In the last ten years my health care costs have gone up about 300 percent and I am healthy and so is my family. Why do conservatives think that the current sytem is working with out of control costs and millions without insurance ? Just because your costs are up this year can't be blamed on the new law, they would have gone up anyway. Iw ould rather pay more so that everybody has a chance of healthcare than just pay more money that seems to go down a black hole. The Repubs have come up with no legitimate ideas and are like the spoiled child who just likes to make noise.

Posted by: Falmouth1 | January 21, 2011 5:19 AM | Report abuse

so i see the trolls are at it again...the public is already defecting from the tea partys position...as they find out the truth about the new health care plan...suddenly they find they actually like it...and as more of it unfolds and they see the benefits they are saying no to the tea party...a lot of people who say they dont like the plan actually say it doesnt go far enough..and want it to do more..think the tea party are finding out they are not representing the will of the people...just their own twist on how THEY want the govt run...i predict a growing ground swell against their ideas already...

Posted by: kiki5cat | January 21, 2011 2:42 AM | Report abuse

~~~No, I think most everyone agrees it will get affordable health care to tens of millions of people that don't currently have it. So that's one promise it makes it will fulfill.~~~

jw I am not really of an opinion on this subject much,-- except for the government forcing people that may want to, say, self insure to be buying, that sort of grates on my sensabilities but, -- where does the money come for the alleged masses that cannot afford the far too expensive policies. I am just wondering if my say $2200 per person X5 policy will go up say $400 per person to pay for that risk policy at $10,000 per year that is sick now but has not had insurance for various reasons for 25 years like myself.

I am really trying to get a handle on this as it seems that Obama care is just a mandatory insurance bill. No real medical reform. I just don't know what the bill does. Please explain or point me somewhere.

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 21, 2011 12:52 AM | Report abuse

Nobody outside of cement-headed partisan pinkos believe the rubbish about Obamacare reducing the deficit (or any of the other grand promises it makes).

Posted by: sold2u

No, I think most everyone agrees it will get affordable health care to tens of millions of people that don't currently have it. So that's one promise it makes it will fulfill.

Posted by: jhnnywalkr | January 20, 2011 11:24 PM | Report abuse

sorry Mr. Toles...I'm outta here.

Posted by: bertzel | January 20, 2011 9:52 PM | Report abuse

so yeah...what do you think we should do with those ice age Woolly Mammoths when we clone them?....we are still off subject right?

Posted by: bertzel | January 20, 2011 9:50 PM | Report abuse

~~~The recently arrested abortion doctor in Philly gives a whole new meaning to the words "family planning" doesn't it?
Posted by: jornolibist~~


Actually...the guy was a jerk...clearly 'doctor gone mad'.

Can you say malpractice? With emphasis on MALe

Posted by: bertzel | January 20, 2011 9:24 PM | Report abuse

The recently arrested abortion doctor in Philly gives a whole new meaning to the words "family planning" doesn't it?

Posted by: jornolibist | January 20, 2011 9:05 PM | Report abuse

~~~~(2010 tied for the hottest year - hmmm)~~~~~

Do you know that in the last dozen or less years that 75% of temperature recording stations have been "retired" and all previous modern raw data has been "lost" leaving only "adjusted" data available.

Who or is it whom is being spoon fed here.

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 20, 2011 8:54 PM | Report abuse

There is no such thing as a good tax.
~Winston Churchill

Spend less than your income? What a concept, bpadrino! What makes that difficult for the Federal government is that half of the budget is earmarked for "untouchable" entitlement programs. The new health care plan will join that list.

Posted by: chaunceygardener | January 20, 2011 8:43 PM | Report abuse

~~~~while the head of United Health Care takes home $400 million a year in compensation is outrageous ~~~~

he is a very good Democrat !!! HAHAHAHA

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 20, 2011 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Toles

Your post reminds me of an old advertising jingle (modified for effect)

If it says LIB-E LIB-E LIB-E on the LABLES LABELS LABELS you will LIKE IT LIKE IT LIKE IT da da da

Posted by: dalyplanet | January 20, 2011 8:38 PM | Report abuse

sold2u:

"The rich didn't cause the real estate bubble that crashed the economy. The average American, aided and abetted by the Federal Government, the Federal Reserve, and Wall Street did."

Some people (maybe 15%) took out mortgages they couldn't afford. The average American did not. When you say that "Wall Street" was partly to blame, I assume you are talking about the rich. People made millions, even billions on real estate on Wall Street, but we bailed them out.

I know the wealthy pay more in taxes, and no one likes to support others. However, I don't know a system that could be more fair. Again, the concentration of wealth that is occurring now is bad for democracy.

Posted by: insightinc | January 20, 2011 8:26 PM | Report abuse

pararanger22:

"Come over here to 'Londonistan' and you'll get a better appreciation to where we're headed dude (or just spend some time in Southern California...or Herndon quite frankly)."

I taught middle school in Sterling last year, and I live in Southern California now. I won't defend gangs and violence by anyone, and I do believe that something must be done about illegal immigration and crime.

The fact is that more of our resources as a nation are being concentrated in the hands of the few--very bad for democracy. That concerns me more than people who don't speak English. My grandparents learned it when they came here, and it takes time.

I will also say that I know some wealthy people who are very generous and caring. There are some bad immigrants, and there are some bad wealthy. There are also good in both, too.

I'm very sorry about your wife and I hope that you found a better place for your family. Thank you for your service.

Posted by: insightinc | January 20, 2011 8:19 PM | Report abuse

Love it when your inner voice becomes your outer voice.

Posted by: EarlyBird1 | January 20, 2011 8:07 PM | Report abuse

The mantra endlessly repeated is that single payer / universal health care will add a trillion dollars to the deficit. OMG! Guess again, you're already paying it.

My COBRA payments were $365.00 per month / $4380.00 per year.

$4380 x 300 million citizens is a little over $1.3 trillion which would also include Americans without any health "insurance" at all.

Those opposed to single payer plans like to pretend they're not paying for their employer provided insurance. You don't suppose that your employer figures that in when deciding your salary do 'ya?

The idea that this country can afford to spend $2 billion a year in Afghanistan but not one dollar for health care for our citizens while the head of United Health Care takes home $400 million a year in compensation is outrageous and darn right evil. He doesn't deliver anything except political campaign contributions and dividend checks to the stock holders at the expense co-pays, deductibles and just outright denying needed care to those that pay his salary. Reminds me of a cartoon where the prospective renters are told by the landlord "No pets, no children and frankly we'd prefer if you didn't actually live here at all." (But they'll take your money.)

Posted by: heytomb | January 20, 2011 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Nice analysis, Tom. Thanks. Unfortunately, the same disconnect between reality (science, empirical evidence, data, etc) and that 'gut feeling' or 'I feel it in my heart' kind of mentality which makes Republicans dismiss global warming (2010 tied for the hottest year - hmmm) also makes them incapable of cogent, rational thought. They simply cannot accept something that doesn't mesh with their spoon-fed world view as dished out by billionaires like the Koch brothers...

Still, keep up the good work and effort. Your work is deeply appreciated.

Posted by: UNLISTED | January 20, 2011 7:48 PM | Report abuse

The rich didn't cause the real estate bubble that crashed the economy. The average American, aided and abetted by the Federal Government, the Federal Reserve, and Wall Street did.

Nobody outside of cement-headed partisan pinkos believe the rubbish about Obamacare reducing the deficit (or any of the other grand promises it makes).

Could you and Cesca form a band? You could call it "Rage against the Right Wing and the Metro"

Posted by: sold2u | January 20, 2011 7:19 PM | Report abuse

Okay, let's get empirical. A deficit is created when an entity spends more money than it has. The country has been spending more money than it takes in for quite a few years. If Congress had raised taxes this year, there would still be a deficit because the Administration continues to spend more money than would have been raised. Until we understand that the cause of the deficit is excessive spending, not insufficient taxing, we won't have the national will to balance our budgets and stop burdening our descendants with ever-increasing debt. Given the tenor of hate speech against folks in the top earning brackets, and the incessant calls from the left to strip them of their property, I cannot blame them for trying to accumulate as much as possible, against the attempts to squeeze it out of them. Frankly, I'd do the same thing.

Posted by: bpadrino | January 20, 2011 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Cartoon caption entry: "My fellow Acquarians..."

Posted by: bethesdaeconomist | January 20, 2011 7:05 PM | Report abuse

can you say "off topic? "

Posted by: bertzel | January 20, 2011 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Many people are not angry at the wealthy person who has acquired more and more of this country's resources while having to pay less and less in taxes. They are angry at the gardener at the wealthy person's clubhouse because he doesn't speak English.

Posted by: insightinc

--------------------

When the Libs have nothing to say, they resort to class warfare. Throw in a dash of 'defend the poor illegal immigrants' too for flavor.

I expect immigrants to this country to assimilate. Speaking English is a component of American assimilation. Come over here to 'Londonistan' and you'll get a better appreciation to where we're headed dude (or just spend some time in Southern California...or Herndon quite frankly). Lots of decent young Hispanic men standing on the curbs, looking for work. Lots of them. Some of these young men belong to a Central American gang that harassed my spouse whilst I was overseas. I had to fly back home and move my family under the watchful eye of some of these young men, an unpleasant and dangerous experience for all of us.

Most young men just want work - I can understand that. But - what I want - is for other Nations to wrestle with that problem, with their citizens, and their government. Host that wrestling match in their country. Not mine.

If we don't get illegal immigration in check, this story will be coming to a neighborhood near you.

Posted by: pararanger22 | January 20, 2011 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Toles is in full form again after a few days off.

Conservatives have never conceded that Obamacare reduces the deficit. The CBO numbers are simply garbage in/garbage out.

If the GOP doesn't come through with the $100B in cuts they promised, the Libs will have something to crow about. Noise about the tax cuts and defending Obamacare as a 'deficit reducer'...well, be my guest to run on that platform in 2012.

Posted by: pararanger22 | January 20, 2011 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Many people are not angry at the wealthy person who has acquired more and more of this country's resources while having to pay less and less in taxes. They are angry at the gardener at the wealthy person's clubhouse because he doesn't speak English.

Posted by: insightinc | January 20, 2011 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Bless you, Mr. Toles, for this and all your works.

Particularly enjoyed the rant beneath the cartoon.

Posted by: ankhorite | January 20, 2011 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Wow! The Master's touch was the small aside ..."Liposuction".

Neat
Thanks

Posted by: lufrank1 | January 20, 2011 4:11 PM | Report abuse

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