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Posted at 12:00 AM ET, 02/ 4/2011

Sequel

By Tom Toles

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Friday rant: Escapism edition

There are a lot of stars out there! And more of them have planets now! This would be very interesting, except for a couple of complications.

First of all, the people claiming there are a lot of planets out there are "scientists," who don't reveal that their real agenda is to get more grants to line their pockets by claiming a lot of sensational discoveries like new "planets." This idea of space as full of depth and new and elaborate commotion is simply unproven and a conspiracy to fund more telescopes to spy on your gun collection. It DELIBERATELY ignores the alternative explanation of "FIRMAMENT," which accounts for everything up there in a different way. Wikipedia says "The firmament was a great tent-like[8] ceiling made of solid crystalline material,[9] which might be pierced by skyscraper and gimlet.[10] It had many windows, some of which opened and closed for the sun and moon to travel through[11] or to let water, which was held above, fall through as rain.[12] On top there were also warehouses of snow and hail.[13] Stars were small objects that were attached tenuously to its surface.[14]" How are earth-sized "planets" supposed to circle small objects attached tenuously to this crystalline surface?

Second of all, speaking of small objects with tenuous attachments, people are perfectly willing to let their brains accept the idea of other planets, but only on one condition: That no matter how incomprehensibly far away they are, we can pretend that they offer us a way to escape our wanton destruction of the one planet all of us actually live on. In summary: Climate change is made up, but just in case it isn't, it's okay because we can fly though some of the many windows in the firmament made by skyscrapers and gimlets and go live in the warehouses of snow and hail. --Tom Toles

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By Tom Toles  | February 4, 2011; 12:00 AM ET
Categories:  Foreign Policy  
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Comments


To Tom Toles...

We have a lot of gall insisting that the Egyptians have a Democracy when our Democracy has become a capitalist oligarchy. We have no control over what our elected officials do or do not do.

Dave

Posted by: OckamsRazor | February 6, 2011 4:44 PM | Report abuse

No solution from you jon just bla bla bla
Posted by: dalyplanet
--

I'm pretty sure that recognizing that there IS a problem and shining a spotlight on it, as opposed to denying that the problem even exists, and then being willing to SHARE in the sacrifice necessary to solve it IS the solution.

Do you and I, Daly, blah, blah, blah, agree that climate change exists and is a problem that needs to be solved? Because what I've heard from you is mostly skepticism, and questioning of whether a problem even exists. If there is no problem to be solved, why are you asking me for solutions?

IF you will stipulate that climate change is a genuine problem to be solved (which I do hereby stipulate, okay?), THEN we can get more serious about solutions.

Meanwhile, I'm perfectly willing to make sacrifices for the sake of future generations, but I'm not willing to make them all by myself. Kind of the flip side of the Tragedy of the Commons... the ONLY way I'll be sacrificing is when we ALL sacrifice. The Third World doesn't have enough, yet, to begin making sacrifices, so my job is to educate and convince the First World.

So that's my solution, Daly: Educate, convince, and share sacrifice. Your turn.

Posted by: jonroesler | February 5, 2011 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Somehow Dave 'empathy me' just does not cut it....bite me on the other hand...
smiles.

Posted by: bertzel | February 5, 2011 12:51 PM | Report abuse

dave....bite me....I have no faith and am tired of the word games.
Posted by: bertzel

My Reply...
Pinch and bite?
I would think you would have a better defense system than that.
It is said that the word is mightier than the sword; especially from great distances.
Instead of a bite; how about a kind word.
"Empathy".
"A kind word turneth away wrath and sooths like a medicine".
Dave (:-)>



Posted by: OckamsRazor | February 5, 2011 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Glib response daly?

Posted by: bertzel | February 5, 2011 11:25 AM | Report abuse

short answer bert Think small and local.

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 5, 2011 12:25 AM | Report abuse

soo...daly, if it is a bad idea, and I agree it is...what would you suggest?

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 11:28 PM | Report abuse

bushidollar

It wastes carbon fuel to save CO2 short answer. Not fuel efficient. ask again and I will give a better more documented answer.

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 4, 2011 9:43 PM | Report abuse

~~~Belief is a dynamic state of mind that must adjust to what we consider a reasonable truth at a particular time and place in space.
Keep the faith Bertzel; it is all we have to set our course.
Dave~~~~

dave....bite me....I have no faith and am tired of the word games.

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 9:38 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps you should keep both words together to get the True meaning…you can look up facts for yourself.
You are playing with words to change meanings dave…ahhh for shame.
Fore I said , “Belief originated from fact. True Belief.”
True Belief, being the key dave.
Posted by: bertzel

My Reply...
Ahhh...for shame Bertzel
It is you who are playing with words without understanding how words are used.

True modifies belief; therefore any belief is "true belief" as long as someone believes it.

What you want is factual belief.
Factual modifies belief to mean only those beliefs based on fact.

Belief is no longer a belief if it is a fact.
Therefore..-
Factual belief is an oxymoron.
It all comes down to what people believe.
It is best that belief be based on facts that are consistent with reality but then reality is not always consistent.
So therefore..-
Belief is a dynamic state of mind that must adjust to what we consider a reasonable truth at a particular time and place in space.
Keep the faith Bertzel; it is all we have to set our course.
Dave

Posted by: OckamsRazor | February 4, 2011 8:39 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 4, 2011 12:44 AM
"I am finding myself in the company of greenpeace and others that bury CO2 is a really bad idea."

daly,

Why do you think it is a bad idea? Hoping that you reply before my 9PM flight.


Posted by: bushidollar | February 4, 2011 6:53 PM | Report abuse

~~From wench springs the font of all fact?
pete~~~

LOL!

and in response to ~~Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Rastafari, Unitarian Universalism, Atheism, Agnosticism, Wiccan, Scientology?~~~
None of the above.

Smiles.

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Ok, then Bertzel. Let's accept your stance that "true belief" is both provable and quantifiable. Then please tell the class which "true belief" is the correct "True Belief": Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Rastafari, Unitarian Universalism, Atheism, Agnosticism, Wiccan, Scientology? From wench springs the font of all fact? Please we are all dying to know, you could end most human conflict! Right here, right now in the comments section of Tom Toles' blog!

See, here lies the problem with your argument. "belief" can be based on either fact or faith. "True Belief" _should_ be based on fact, but is really most often based on faith.

Belief can be subjective, "true belief" doubly so.

And it is not that I ever really disagreed with you, it's just that I wanted a discussion that was more interesting than global warming, again. Thanks for keeping me entertained today.

Posted by: pete1013 | February 4, 2011 5:10 PM | Report abuse

~~~One "solution" seems to be, for the richest country on the planet to refuse to agree to do anything at all until and unless everyone else agrees either to remain at their current level of industrialization or to regress. "Conservative" in the deepest sense of the word? Yes. Practical? No.
Posted by: jonroesler ~~~

We are the richest country on the planet??? really? in what cents?

What do you recommend this country do to move forward jon? Obviously (did I get it right this time?) You believe the middle class in this country, i.e, industrialization should no longer exist?
Is that the plan for Co2 reform?

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Science really works pretty well. Scientific method works well. When conclusions are based on reasonable and sound science, one should accept them whether one likes the conclusions or not, You don't get to reject a conclusion simply because you do not like it.
Posted by: ptgrunner |


When one starts to pick on one's fast fingers (spelling) one has a problem with the rest of the issue at hand....just sayin'.

If you want to believe you are an evolved ape go ahead....there is no proof in that tho is there. Then again.....

So what scientific conclusion is it you are referring to?

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 4:43 PM | Report abuse

~~~So in essence "true belief" should be interpreted the same as "personal faith", which is wholly unrelated to "facts".

Posted by: pete1013 | February 4, 2011 ~~~

No True belief should not be interpreted to personal faith....see that is the WHOLE problem...the way you choose to inerpret what is said...
Playing word games is redundant….according to you…life itself may not exist.
We may all be a figment of our imagination….right.
There is a difference between thinking, feeling, and knowing.
I said AGAIN, ““Belief originated from fact. True Belief.”
If you are blind and walk into a wall which happens to be in the middle of a field, and you cannot see it and it does not 'belong' in this field, does that mean it does not exist? Even though someone who can see the wall is telling you that a wall is there ...are you going to keep banging your head into that wall?
I'm guessing you are.

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Dude...you obiviously do not have a soul?

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 2:41 PM
-----------------------------------------------
@bertzel You "obiviously" can't spell.
***********************************************************
HA!

Posted by: bertzel | February 3, 2011 5:19 PM

HA!

Posted by: bertzel | February 3, 2011 5:18 PM
------------------------------------------------

"HA! HA!"
********************************
Science really works pretty well. Scientific method works well. When conclusions are based on reasonable and sound science, one should accept them whether one likes the conclusions or not, You don't get to reject a conclusion simply because you do not like it.

Posted by: ptgrunner | February 4, 2011 4:11 PM | Report abuse

jonroesler |

No solution from you jon just bla bla bla

What about bury carbon or is it just bla bla bla jon ??

Your little quote certainly applies to M. Mann and his little graphic !!

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 4, 2011 3:26 PM | Report abuse

I suspect the truth is closer to, "97% of climate scientists ADMIT they believe that climate change/global warming is occurring and is due to human activity. The other 3% are liars."

As Upton Sinclair said, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

One "solution" seems to be, for the richest country on the planet to refuse to agree to do anything at all until and unless everyone else agrees either to remain at their current level of industrialization or to regress. "Conservative" in the deepest sense of the word? Yes. Practical? No.

Posted by: jonroesler | February 4, 2011 3:09 PM | Report abuse

"A map does not equal the terrain." ~Alfred Korzybski

Bertzel, you are leaning your argument heavily on the word "true", but "truth" (or, if you prefer, truthiness) is subjective. As are the ideas of reality, justice, fairness, good, evil, etc; really any of the words used to invoke moral certitude.

So in essence "true belief" should be interpreted the same as "personal faith", which is wholly unrelated to "facts".

Posted by: pete1013 | February 4, 2011 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Dude...you obiviously do not have a soul?

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Dear dave,
You forgot the true part in ‘true belief’.
True-adj.
1.In accordance with fact or reality.
2.Not imitation or false.
3.Loyal or faithful
4.Agreeing with an original or standard: a true copy
5.Having the right form, fit, etc.
6.Legitimate or rightful
7.Rightly or properly so called.-n.
8.Accurate formation of adjustment: to be out of true.
9.The true, truth or reality. –adv.
10.Truly
11.In conformity with ancestral type: to breed true.—v.t.
12.To form or adjust accurately.---trueness, n.__ Syn.
1.Actual
2.Genuine
3.Accurate
4.Exact.

Random House Dictionary…book form : )

Perhaps you should keep both words together to get the True meaning…you can look up facts for yourself.
You are playing with words to change meanings dave…ahhh for shame.
Fore I said , “Belief originated from fact. True Belief.”
True Belief, being the key dave.

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 2:36 PM | Report abuse

97% of climate scientists believe that climate change/global warming is occurring, and is due to human activity. Conservatives/Tea Partyers don't believe climate scientists.

The CBO develops cost projections for the PPACA that show we can extend health care coverage to 32 million people and save a modest amount of money (relative to the GOP alternative of doing nothing) at the same time. Conservatives/Tea Partyers don't believe the CBO projections.

The CBO develops cost projections that show repealing the PPACA with the "Repealing the Job-Killing Health Care Law Act" will cost the U.S. $230 billion. And there is no evidence that the PPACA will kill jobs..in fact, the contrary seems likely to be true. But...conservatives/Tea Partyers don't believe these projections.

Oh...the minds of children! They want simple, immediate answers to the difficult problems of life.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." --? Well TPers, reality is not going away.

And let's not ignore the fact---yes, the fact--that January saw very weak job creation performance. This occurred with the GOP/conservatives/TPers taking over (infesting?) the House on Jan. 5, 2011. There is a obvious and clear connection--the GOP destroys jobs. But I'm sure conservatives/TPers will have plenty of excuses. Hey, Boehner. Where are the jobs? Where is your program for creating jobs? Why the focus on repealing PPACA when people need and want (unless you're a TPer) jobs. And let's go back to the glory days of our founding fathers, most of whom owned slaves and when life expectancy was about 35 years (1776).

Posted by: ptgrunner | February 4, 2011 1:34 PM | Report abuse


~~~"For most Americans (and probably the human race) belief trumps facts~~~~
Bud0
I disagree...belief originated from fact.
True belief.
Posted by: bertzel

My Comment...
True Belief?
be•lief [bi lf]
(plural be•liefs)
n
1. Acceptance of truth of something: acceptance by the mind that something is true or real, often underpinned by an emotional or spiritual sense of certainty
Belief in an afterlife

2. Trust: confidence that somebody or something is good or will be effective
Belief in democracy

3. Something that somebody believes in: a statement, principle, or doctrine that a person or group accepts as true
4. Opinion: an opinion, especially a firm and considered one
5. Religious faith: faith in God or in a religion's gods

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

As you can “see” by the dictionary definition of Belief, belief is based on a mind function not “true facts” which are based on what really happened.
Our mind does not function from “true facts” alone.
Our mind works from percepts that are interpreted into concepts and then our mind works from these concepts to form beliefs. People’s ability to do this essential task is critical to people’s survival.
People depend on many sources of both personal perceptions and universal concepts that make intelligent beliefs possible.
Dysfunctional minds and corrupted universal concepts lead to human error that can be fatal.
To make things more difficult; reality changes and people have to be aware of these changes or they make fatal errors.
Mind function also includes the figment of the imagination that makes it possible for people to change reality for the better or for the worse.
Our ability to cope with reality realistically is essential to our well being.
Lies and deceit can confuse the mind and cause mental and physical chaos.
People need to solve problems not make them worse.
Dave

Posted by: OckamsRazor | February 4, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Pdog

Even a dumb dopey flat earth AGW denier could get on board with your plan.

Unfortunately this is not the plan.

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 4, 2011 12:36 PM | Report abuse

TT – Your wisdom about the universe equals the real thing as a source of wonder.Now that we know there are a gazillion planets out there like ours, we don’t have to rely on groundless beliefs about The Resurrection – and this of course should serve as manna-from-you-know-where for many of your commenting types. And here’s why: When JC elevated into the clouds (That’s pretty much how it happened, isn’t it..??) he was being called to the next world. There he’d get born to a girl (virginity notwithstanding), grow up with no biological father visibly present, preach and perform miracles for a couple years (those would be Earth years, naturally), get tortured and crucified for some way-bad politics, and eventually it would be back up into the clouds (or whatever the next planet has for an atmosphere), then beyond – only to repeat the process again and again on yet other planets. Now I ask you, TT, is this any crazier than believing that aliens from outer space colonized Earth, and we’re their fallen progeny – like Tom Cat believes, Kirstie Ally, and that way-pretty Holmes girl...?? I don’t think so. The difference now is that we have some scientific evidence; or at least we’re on the verge of it. I’d say my theory makes sense, so I’m sticking by it until someone comes up (one of your commenters would do nicely) with a better one. It explains the “only…son” thing, as well as where he went, and why so many bumper stickers claim that “He Lives..!!” (I guess they should start claiming something like: “He Lives...On Syracon!!”)

Posted by: dudeupnorth | February 4, 2011 12:35 PM | Report abuse

I thought it was smart guy

I should wait to here from others before comment.

A link to the believers bible IPCC carbon capture

http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/special-reports/srccs/srccs_wholereport.pdf

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 4, 2011 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Let me see, some months ago, Australia was going through a period of draught. Could it have been because it was their dry season? There were fires everywhere. Now they're having floods and storms. Draught problem solved. Could it be that this is now their wet season?
Here in the U.S., we're getting some very cold temperatures and heavy snow and ice. I guess it must be winter - and a pretty cold one at that. And most Americans up north are hoping for some climate change soon, before they freeze their behinds. Now, what's wrong with that?

Posted by: bpadrino | February 4, 2011 12:05 PM | Report abuse

~~~~Well...the world needs it now. Time for us to step up.

Posted by: PrairieDog60 ~~~~

Indeed...

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 11:58 AM | Report abuse

daly,

It's really not all that hard. Each person can do all they can to minimize energy use, first and foremost. I shouldn't have to make a laundry list, but here it is anyway;

1) Drive smaller vehicles; drive them less by consolidating trips, living closer to work, walking or biking when possible.
2) Use, promote and lobby for mass transportation.
3) Insulate your home properly; use common sense (as our parents did) by opening curtains on winter days when the sun is shining, and closing them on hot days when the sun is shining.
4) If building, build a home that has some passive solar capabilities. For those with a few more dollars, build a home that has the latest in sustainable technology, has light fixtures to accomodate both CFLs and LED lighting. And build SMALLER.
5) Again, if you have the means, invest in solar panels, either for direct current or for solar hot water heating.
6) If a new building is going up where you work, or a school in your town, etc, promote the idea of making it LEED certified, or at least that it be built with low energy use in mind.
7) And, for all these things, lobby hard for them. Talk to elected and other government officials. Vote for those with an eye toward sustainability. Encourage government officials to stop subsidizing polluting fossil fuels, and ask them to do more to promote and support sustainable energy technologies.

This is not nuclear physics. We KNOW what needs to be done. Imagine if we'd spent the trillion dollars or so we've blown in Iraq and Afghanistan, instead on the development of a new electrical grid in the US with an eye toward the places where we can generate renewable power. And using some of that money to build high-speed rail to get this country back to a more rail-focused means of transportation for goods and people, as it was before car mentality took over.

And yes, bad behavior must be punished. An incremental increase in gas tax to move people away from using so much gasoline. A carbon tax to move people away from the creation of more CO2.

The answers are not complicated. The political will is the hard part. The realization of the average American that we can't continue to have everything we want, anytime we want it, is the hard part. Getting people to recognize that we, as Americans, can't keep living a life that leaves an ecological footprint on the Earth that is 4 or 5 times greater than citizens of most other nations, is the hard part.

The rest of the world gets this. Yes, China and India don't want to stifle their progress and so they fight any regulations. But people in Oceana, in Europe, in Africa, Indonesia...they recognize that we're in trouble and something needs to be done. We Americans are bullheaded and spoiled, and it's time we grow up. Our parents and grandparents knew what sacrifice was when the nation needed it. Well...the world needs it now. Time for us to step up.

Posted by: PrairieDog60 | February 4, 2011 11:54 AM | Report abuse

~~~One of you smart people should be able to direct me to a real plan. Something better than S2191.
Do you all think bury CO2 is a good idea.
Posted by: dalyplanet ~~~~

Gee daly, I certainly don't claim to be smart..tho I have been called a smart ass.
Does that count? If so...I will respond.

what exactly don't you like about the plan....the exchange of monies or this-

TITLE VIII FRAMEWORK FOR GEOLOGIC SEQUESTRATION OF CARBON DIOXIDE
Title VIII initiates a series of rulemakings, geological surveys, technical reviews, and panels
of legal experts designed to pave the way for the rollout of a national infrastructure for taking CO2
from power plants, through pipelines, to injection wells, and then deep underground.

Just curious to what exactly it is you object to.
And no I didn't lift that from wikipedia.

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 11:24 AM | Report abuse

So all you smart moral save the planeteers, what are you doing (and I don't mean complaining) to stop the climate changing carbon combustion. I have asked about this before and the response is minimal.

One of you smart people should be able to direct me to a real plan. Something better than S2191.

Do you all think bury CO2 is a good idea.

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 4, 2011 10:27 AM | Report abuse

oh and pete...you left out this major fact...I said "true belief".

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 10:10 AM | Report abuse

The Easter bunny???? Tooth fairy?
Please pete. Tales told by adults to children. Period. Which is really a cruel thing to do if you think about it...

~~~No, bertzel, what you recall is a discussion of _spirituality_, a wholly separate subject from religion.~~~

I agree....so Explain to Toles the firmament and it's symbolism.


~

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 10:06 AM | Report abuse

No, bertzel, what you recall is a discussion of _spirituality_, a wholly separate subject from religion.

Also "belief originated from fact"??? really? Please use this statement to explain the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and/or Santa Claus. Or witches, vampires, werewolves. Or the Earth as the center of the Universe. or Zeus, or the immortality of the Pharaohs or oh I don't know any myth of your choice that was once accepted "fact". annnd go...

Posted by: pete1013 | February 4, 2011 9:51 AM | Report abuse

~~~"For most Americans (and probably the human race) belief trumps facts~~~~
Bud0

I disagree...belief originated from fact.
True belief.

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Hey Toles
one of your very best,my opinion. And if the firmament didn't have windows then how did we get to the moon? Huh. Answer that, sceptics.

Posted by: adtaylorwp | February 4, 2011 9:20 AM | Report abuse

DirtFarmer1, are you trying to imply that if the climate was hotter in the Jurassic period than anything we are likely to cause by burning carbon (which it was), we shouldn't care about climate change? The problem with climate change isn't that it is bad for the planet, the problem is that it is bad for HUMANS. We have coastal cities that would flood, farmland dependent on current prevailing rainfall patterns, fisheries depended on the health of coral reefs, etc. The reason we care about climate change isn't because we want the planet to stay in equilibrium (it won't), but because we want our own species to survive and hopefully prosper.

Posted by: bbabcoc1 | February 4, 2011 9:16 AM | Report abuse

"For most Americans (and probably the human race) belief trumps facts."

Hate to tell you this, kparc1212, but it's basically just Americans. Climate change denial is largely unheard of in other countries.

Maybe there are a few Afghan village elders as backwards and confused as the US 'conservatives'.

Posted by: Bud0 | February 4, 2011 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Hand picking snippets from 'the book of knowledge', commonly known as Wikipedia.

Good to know where you get your info from Toles! Keep up the good work.

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 9:07 AM | Report abuse

After reading some of the posts hear, I have come to the conclusion that this planet needs a do-over. Gravity doesn't pull, it sucks.
For most Americans (and probably the human race) belief trumps facts. Where's Armageddon when you need it?
Get the Second Coming over with, enough already. Stupidity hurts, see how much pain the world is in!

Posted by: kparc1212 | February 4, 2011 6:51 AM | Report abuse

But it is easy, when all the water runs off, over the EDGE of the Planet, it will all go dry. Seen that coming since Columbus.

Posted by: Stonebird | February 4, 2011 5:15 AM | Report abuse

Climate change is due to human activity. Before humans came along, there was no climate change. It's just that simple. Isn't that right, Mr. Toles?

Posted by: DirtFarmer1 | February 4, 2011 4:27 AM | Report abuse

"Firmament"

Watch "De Lawd" as he taste the punch that his angels have prepared . . ., "It needs more firmament", he says. De Lawd steps to the edge of heaven and looks down, "Let there be Firmament", he says. "An I don't mean a little firmament, I means a whole Mess of FIRMANEN!”
Wham! Bang! The earth appears.
Posted by: lufrank1

My thoughts on the subject…
The firmament should be a whole lot more stable than it appears to be.
Maybe who ever made the firmament thought God said, “Let there be Ferment” and that is when entropy set in.
Now we have to deal with a whole lot of fermenting going on
Dave


Posted by: OckamsRazor | February 4, 2011 3:11 AM | Report abuse

Pdog

I would really be happy to get off the power company, what do you think is the answer.

I am finding myself in the company of greenpeace and others that bury CO2 is a really bad idea.

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 4, 2011 12:44 AM | Report abuse

If you repeat, many times, that there is a "debate" about whether or not current climate change is being caused by human activities, it somehow becomes true.

Orwell was quite a good student of human nature.

Posted by: PrairieDog60 | February 4, 2011 12:12 AM | Report abuse

by the way pete...I recall some religious dialogue from you in the past.
Care to explain to Toles the firmament and all that???
Go for it bud.

Posted by: bertzel | February 4, 2011 12:01 AM | Report abuse

funny pete...care to join?

Posted by: bertzel | February 3, 2011 11:39 PM | Report abuse

would you girls get a chatroom, already...

Posted by: pete1013 | February 3, 2011 11:35 PM | Report abuse

Soros has a nose for money. Fuel may get expensive. Or worse

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 3, 2011 11:25 PM | Report abuse

~~~~Did you read the Soros editorial in today's WaPo. I am curios about his 'interest' in Egypt.

Posted by: dalyplanet ~~~


Hit the right link this time...will have to re-read...tho my initial thought is, well, you know...At any rate. I am not ENTHUSED at all concerning what is going on over there.

Posted by: bertzel | February 3, 2011 11:17 PM | Report abuse

~~~the federal government has created it. ~~~

They just have maybe helped preserve it. It was a volcano that created it and was there long before the Fed.or mankind even. They sure spend a lot to play on it. They have a 300+ foot cutter to service it.

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 3, 2011 11:03 PM | Report abuse

~~~So bert

Did you read the Soros editorial in today's WaPo. I am curios about his 'interest' in Egypt.

Posted by: dalyplanet ~~~

to tell you the truth...and I do that once in a while.....I clicked on that earlier but found the article to be written by someone else!
Think I will try again, now.

Posted by: bertzel | February 3, 2011 11:02 PM | Report abuse

Great rant! You made my night. Thanks Tom!

Posted by: mmyotis | February 3, 2011 11:01 PM | Report abuse

~~~the federal government has created it.
gee I hope you meant preserved...

Posted by: bertzel | February 3, 2011 10:59 PM | Report abuse

"You need to get out of the city and see the vast majority of non wantonly destroyed earth. Try Isle Royal in Lake Superior, no cars pretty rustic the earth as it was before the billions. "

Ironically, Isle Royale's rustic condition is due to the fact that it is a National Park site. In other words, the federal government has created it.

Posted by: simpleton1 | February 3, 2011 10:54 PM | Report abuse

jornolibist

LOL funny !!

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 3, 2011 10:53 PM | Report abuse

Toles are you sure you are not using your head as the drum?

Posted by: jornolibist | February 3, 2011 10:51 PM | Report abuse

So bert

Did you read the Soros editorial in today's WaPo. I am curios about his 'interest' in Egypt.

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 3, 2011 10:51 PM | Report abuse

ohh...gee...guess I misread some of that post...go figure! chuckle!!

Posted by: bertzel | February 3, 2011 10:39 PM | Report abuse

~~~~~~In summary: Climate change is made up~~~~


come on daly...that is a bit of a stretch.

Everything changes, does it not?

and tho I agree there are a lot of awesome places on this planet...I wouldn't recommend anywhere near the great lakes this time of year.
brrrr!! and the SNOW!!!!

Posted by: bertzel | February 3, 2011 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Toles says


~~~escape our wanton destruction of the one planet all of us actually live on.~~~

You need to get out of the city and see the vast majority of non wantonly destroyed earth. Try Isle Royal in Lake Superior, no cars pretty rustic the earth as it was before the billions.

~~~In summary: Climate change is made up~~~~

Now who is being cynical? Pretty much everyone agrees that the climate changes. The main debate is over how much, to if any, is this change controlled by man. This is a reasonable debate. The other part of the debate is about solutions.

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 3, 2011 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Ah sad these "planet" "scientists" don't get to fly to some exotic vacation locale in private jets every couple of years to discuss their current project on the governments dime like some others "scientists" out there.

Whats Up with George Soros little editorial in the WaPo yesterday. I sort of think that whatever he thinks should be done, then US should do the opposite.

Posted by: dalyplanet | February 3, 2011 7:49 PM | Report abuse

quiensabe,

Thanks for 'splainin it. Have a good weekend.

Posted by: bushidollar | February 3, 2011 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Very few of your readers can appreciate today’s outtake like I can. You see, Walt Garrison is my friend. Here’s a quote from “Once a Cowboy:”

When i got some free time on my hands, I like to things I really enjoy. Like ropin. But there's something I like to do ALL the time..and that's tobacca. Just like some other guys, I get my tobacca pleasure without lighting up. I use smokelss tobacca.

So, Barry, if you want to come on down to Texas and do some team roping and some real spittin’ I’ll head and you can heel!

Posted by: quiensabe | February 3, 2011 6:52 PM | Report abuse

HA!

Posted by: bertzel | February 3, 2011 5:19 PM | Report abuse

HA!

Posted by: bertzel | February 3, 2011 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Huh? Wait just a cotton-pickin' minute here, Toles! Firmament?

Are you tryin' to tell us that, the flat earth does NOT rest on giant elephants which in turn ride upon the back of a giant turtle named A’Tuin who "comes, swimming slowly through the interstellar gulf, hydrogen frost on his ponderous limbs, his huge and ancient shell pocked with meteor craters?"

Or is the whole diskworld cosmology still intact, with this "firmament" thingy sort of a bowl-like affair covering the top to keep it all from running over the edges? 'Cause you were scarin' me for a minute, there.

"Teach the controversy," Tom. Bring it!

Posted by: jonroesler | February 3, 2011 4:13 PM | Report abuse

"The Green Pastures" Stage show and Movie
"Firmament"

Watch "De Lawd" as he taste the punch that his angels have prepared . . ., "It needs more firmament", he says. De Lawd steps to the edge of heaven and looks down, "Let there be Firmament", he says. "An I don't mean a little firmament, I means a whole Mess of FIRMANEN!”

Wham! Bang! The earth appears.

That remarkable actor was asked (backstage after one of his long running Broadway episodes) if anyone ever asked him for forgivement, and what was his answer to him or her?
"I forgive them.,” he said simply.

Actually HE DOES indeed look and act like a wise, loving father.

Thanks for reminding me about him with your comment.

Posted by: lufrank1 | February 3, 2011 4:09 PM | Report abuse

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