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Crazy Finish

Here's the really funny thing about yesterday's wild game between the Wizards and Warriors: usually, we beat writers (John Mitchell from the Times and myself) sit up above the tunnel leading to the Wizards lockeroom or, sometimes, we sit on the scorer's table next to the Wiz bench. Yesterday, for whatever reason, we were placed far down the scorer's table right next to the Golden State bench. This really didn't mean much for about 2 hours, 10 minutes yesterday and then all heck broke loose.

After the foul was called on Caron Butler, giving Al Harrington two free throws, the Wiz inbounded the ball right in front of us and everything rolled from there. Gil drove, may or may not have drawn contact on Mickael Pietrus and moments after the buzzer sounded, referee Tony Brothers raised his arm and blew his whistle. Now, this is my theory: Brothers knew that his partner, Darrick Stafford, had made a tough call on Butler on the other end (several Wizards admitted that Butler fouled Harrington but the call could have been let go in that situation) and he made up for it but only after seeing that the Arenas shot did not go in. I believe that Brothers wanted to call the foul but did not want to give Arenas an And 1 for the victory.

Now, here's where things went really crazy. The Golden State bench went nuts and Don Nelson charged onto the court where I clearly heard him yell at Brothers: "Tony, you are a (naughty word) idiot!" The really funny part came next. Butler was standing right there next to Brothers when Nelson said it and Butler, turning into king instigator, goes: "Ooohhh. Did you hear that? T him up!" Sure enough, Stafford stepped in and hit Nellie with a T. The refs then came over right next to us and looked at a video review but I'm still not sure what the heck they were looking for. Whether time had expired? When the foul was made? How much to put on the clock? The whole thing was bizarre. So Gilbert takes his free throws. As he gets ready for the third and final one, he turns to the Golden State bench and says: "Go to the lockeroom. Get on the bus. It's over."

This was after Harrington, Jason Richardson and Matt Barnes (of all people) walked by Gilbert and chirped in his ear. Richardson said something about "Benihana" It had to be his answer to Gilbert's "hibachi" fixation. Anyway, just before Gilbert took and made the last shot, I caught eye contact with Antawn Jamison and he gave me one of those huge grins he's famous for. He knew Gilbert was making it. And he did.

As the Warriors left the floor I watched Barnes. Did you ever have your bike stolen as a kid by a bigger kid and knew that there was nothing you could do about it? That's exactly how Barnes looked.


By Ivan Carter  |  March 5, 2007; 1:20 PM ET
 
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Next: On to Atlanta

Comments

maybe this is indication that Zero is entering that rarified air of respect where league superstars go to the line despite minimal contact - DWade has been beneficiary of phantom fouls for a couple of seasons now.

Posted by: Bullets Fan in L.A. | March 5, 2007 1:49 PM | Report abuse

So we have Caron to thank for the game winning free throw!

Posted by: TG | March 5, 2007 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Congratulations, Gilbert! I feel alot more comfortable with him at the line in a playoff game now. I love how he shoved it in their face when they tried to chirp in his ear.

Posted by: Andrew | March 5, 2007 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Michael pretty much hit the nail on the head in the previous post. anybody that knows basketball knew wade was coming back for the simple fact that the window is closing on the heats prospects. the only drawback is that we're going to be subjected to about 79 puff pieces on ABC and ESPN talking about how amazing and tough he is. he definitly isnt the first person to delay surgery and play through this exact same injury. plus he cried on the court. There's no CRYING in BASKETBALL! just ask adam morrison.

I trust in some of the plus minus statistics that other people show on the blog and saw it up close at yesterdays game. Eddie had Blatche, Etan, Jamison, Mason, and AD out there for a short while and the team played really well. what a shock that a big lineup would actually play well.

Of course Eddie had to screw with it after 3 minutes and bring in who else but JARVIS and took out Antwan...immediately the team went stagnant.

then at the crucial last minute of the game Eddie goes smallball! i actually through up a little bit in my mouth. not surprisingly the warriors got a critical offensive rebound on their last possession to set up harringtons free throws. what is this guy thinking?

needless to say gil bails him out again. Eddie should just route his paychecks directly to Gil's account.

Ernie has put together a good team but having eddie run the team can make you sick at times. This is like buying a brand new luxury car but being forced to have your drunk friend drive you around. you never know what this guy will do.

why are blatche and mason not playing more. blatche should under no circumstances get less than twice the minutes that boothe gets.

seeing gil hit those free throws was HUGE. that kind of clutch will translate into the playoffs and its great to see him shake off the free throw issues of last year.

"Go to the lockeroom. Get on the bus. It's over."

Now that is bad@ss.

Posted by: Anonymous | March 5, 2007 2:09 PM | Report abuse

sorry forgot to put my name on the last post

Posted by: Ray Chris. | March 5, 2007 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Everyone (Wilbon included) seems to put all the blame on the refs on this. Maybe they shouldn't have made that call on the T but it seems to me that Nellie is as culpable. I'm guessing he used the f word as an adjective around "idiot." I think the refs are under orders to call T's for that sort of language. Nellie needs to be smarter than that, particularly given the predilection of some of his players to get out and do some questionable stuff.

At least we know that if a brawl had broken out due to the smack talk back and forth, Stephen Jackson would have been able to calm things down by firing his piece into the air a couple of times. That's something.

Posted by: charles jones | March 5, 2007 2:12 PM | Report abuse

I think we can all kinda admit that the Wizards did not deserve to win that game. I mean, come on now. I was there and everyone in my section kinda had those goofy grins on their faces like we knew we had just gotten away with stealing.

Posted by: Jake | March 5, 2007 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Wait a minute there is no telling what kind of language a guy like Riley uses on a call like that and I guarantee you he doesn't get T'ed. Are you telling me Eddie doesn't go ballistic in that same situation. Or any of us for that matter. The whole thing was bogus, but hey at least the Wizards got the benefit that time. They sure as hell don't get it against the better teams in this league.

Posted by: George Templeton | March 5, 2007 2:32 PM | Report abuse

How can you say the Wizards didn't deserve to win that game? Because of one bad call? Butler was on the short end of MULTIPLE bad calls. As was Calvin Booth, Andray Blatche and DeShawn Stevenson. The Warriors were lucky as all get out to be that close.

Posted by: Tuna | March 5, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

@ some point no 1 will care how we won or who played when we won.

The W's just keep piling up.

btw: on a lighter side of things...
It's is funny how all these guys fall back on human nature to turn into a tattle tale (gamesmanship).
I mean I still don't get why Vlade was so reviled for flopping. It's part of the show.
LOL.

Posted by: Victor | March 5, 2007 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Ivan, awesome blog entry. It's great to have an inside source on the details of what went down.

Posted by: burke | March 5, 2007 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Lost in the controversary surrounding the end of the game is the tremendous play Caron Butler made that kept the Wiz alive. With 48 seconds left and the Warriors up by 2, Gilbert missed a layup (probably got hammered-no call) and as he looked aghast at the refs, Harrington grabbed the rebound and started dribbling upcourt. Caron's steal and huge dunk over Biedrins tied the game and must have brought the house down. To me it was one of the highlight plays of the year and no one is talking about it! Until that play the Wiz played like they were determined to lose the game...turnover after turnover, missed shot after missed shot. Caron deserves some props for this game.

Posted by: amg | March 5, 2007 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for adding to the mystique of this team, Ivan. That was hilarious.

Posted by: Ian | March 5, 2007 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Nice story Ivan.

Here's my take:

The sequence in the last 2.9 seconds, should've stayed that way. Mikeal Pietrus made contact with Gilbert Arenas as he went up with 0.2 seconds left and I watched it over like 20 times on tape in slow, and it's obvious that he made contact. It's obvious the whistle is gonna come after it hits 0.0 because it's impossible to blow the whistle in 0.2 seconds, so I don't know why the Warriors were mad.

From there, Don Nelson complained and at first, I thought he didn't deserve a technical because from our view, all he did was try to plead his case politely as possible, but after reading Ivan's article about what he said, Don Nelson did deserve that technical. Warriors fans complain that the ref wouldn't call him up for a T any other time of the game, but from my knowledge, just because there' only 0.2 seconds left, doesn't mean the guidelines and rules as a coach/player doesn't apply, you still shouldn't be using profanity or anything like that during the game, or you should recieve a tech like Don did.

I think the Refs were right and we deserved that win, if you wanna blame anyone, blame Don Nelson.

Posted by: Will | March 5, 2007 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Whether Riley does it or not is irrelevant (and I'd bet he doesn't drop the f-bomb directly at a ref describing him through the use of it). Nellie put himself in the position where the call could have been made (and by rules should have been). Whether the ref chooses to call it is the refs call to some extent, and so Nellie put himself in jeopardy by, frankly, losing his composure. There is only one way he could have guaranteed not getting a T - by controlling himself. Make no mistake - he lost his composure - lots of times coaches will get T's to make a point with the ref, hoping that it will carry on in their favor later in the game, or to stick up for their players (like Isiah did earlier in the season). There was no angle for any of that at the endof the game yesterday - Nellie just freaked.

Also keep in mind - w/o the T the game goes into overtime, so it is not like without the call we would have automatically had an L.

While I am not sure that the Warriors were lucky to be in game, I do agree with Tuna that there were plenty of tough calls to go around.

Posted by: charles jones | March 5, 2007 3:01 PM | Report abuse

My son was at the game using our tickets. One thing that I didn't see on TV was that Nellie charged onto the court and was out at the free throw line.
There's no way an official can overlook that and the F word. Butler was kind of like having a brother around that would make sure your Dad heard what you said when you were dumb enough to talk back.
My take was that it appeared that Nellie had his guys playing to keep Gil from getting the shot off. What he didn't want was the two and one. But then he turned around and did it himself.
You can call it a gift, but in this league when you are a playoff team and your Allstar player draws that much contact on the final play of the game more often then not he goes to the line. I've seen the Wizards/Bullets on the other side of that coin too many times to complain when we come out on top for a change.

Posted by: GM | March 5, 2007 3:38 PM | Report abuse

amazing blog, Ivan. Super stuff. Love it.

Posted by: jj | March 5, 2007 3:41 PM | Report abuse

And AMG you're right Butler's play was hugh and Gil did get Hammered

Posted by: GM | March 5, 2007 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Have a question. Let's say the refs determined, from the video, that the foul call happened after time expired. Now, up to this point, Nelson has already been t-ed up. Would Gil still be allowed to shoot the technical, even though the game was really over b/c he wasn't fouled?

Anyone know how it would have worked?

Posted by: Drew | March 5, 2007 3:58 PM | Report abuse

"I think we can all kinda admit that the Wizards did not deserve to win that game."

Speak for yourself. ;)

After watching many years of the Wiz losing games like that it was nice to see something good happpen to the Wiz for a change.

In years past the Wiz would never have gotten that call or the "T."

It was a definately gift, but as Ivan hints at the refs have a lot of power in these things:

"....and he made up for it but only after seeing that the Arenas shot did not go in."

If you know anything about basketball then you know the good teams get ALL the calls during these games. I watched MJ, while with the Bulls playing the Wiz, drive to the hole once and absolutely nobody touch him and he got a the +1. They even showed it on replay in slow motion. I'll never forget that.

Yesterday was a gift, but even some of the Warriors said that they thought Gil was fouled. Nelly blew it all on his own, I bet he'll shut up next time won't he?

It's not that they didn't deserve to lose at all, but at the very least go to overtime.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | March 5, 2007 4:04 PM | Report abuse

The description of Gilbert @ the foul line and dealing with the taunts?

That was "Big bank take little bank."

Posted by: iceberg | March 5, 2007 4:08 PM | Report abuse

As much as I luv Caron & all his contributions AND his huge Defense @ the end - He's been turning the ball over big time recently.
7 t/o's yesterday. If a certain troll is going to complain about Gil not passing & should adjust his game to play to his weakness, then he better ante up with an assessment about Caron.
Lets be fair, we need all 11 guys out there contributing. & despite Golden State's & Atlanta's records, this is the NBA & they are professionals. I rarely find NBA teams tanking whether it's in November or April.

Oh, I think EJ is slowly finding a second unit of AB, DS, JH, RM, & AD & CB & ET. With 2 of the big 3 rotating in. You can't teach EJ new tricks overnight but @ least we will be primed for the playoffs 12 man deep!

Posted by: Victor | March 5, 2007 4:21 PM | Report abuse

The refs flat out called a poor game. The last 4 seconds definitely broke in the Wizards favor, but on balance the game was called inconsistently for both teams. Etan, in particular, was absolutely brutalized under the basket on a couple occasions, and the refs let play continue.

Posted by: JP2 | March 5, 2007 4:31 PM | Report abuse

My family & I were at the game.
It was a poor game. Wiz could barely hang on. Here we are talkin play-offs and barely squeeked past a below 500 team. What the heck are we talkin about here? This team is barely getting by but the Cavs & Detroit are out there getting stronger by playin Dallas & the suns. True a win is a win but - I can't find anything victorious about this win. Peitrus never touched Arenas.

Posted by: Tracy | March 5, 2007 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Look Tracy I think the Warriors got hosed but lets not get too morose. Good teams struggle to beat bad ones all the time in the NBA. Charlotte and Atlanta have both upset very good teams home and away.
Remember the Wizards are only just whole again after a long period of upheaval. It is going to take awhile for the Wizards to play at peak efficiency.

Posted by: George Templeton | March 5, 2007 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Hey, Tracy - the Wiz have won two straight over Detroit. Just saying. Winning close games against lottery teams isn't a scarlet letter. Dallas beat the lowly Memphis Grizz by one point on 1/31. There are many other similar results. The team is far from perfect, but they're a 1/2 game out of the #2 seed in the Eastern Conference, and there ain't a person on this blog that wouldn't have taken that to start the season.

Posted by: Tuna | March 5, 2007 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Tracy, having gone to many games I find that it's actually easier to see some of the details on TV especially b/c of my DVR. You can obviously replay it and in slow motion you can see what happened better. Pietrus actually extended his arm out twice to keep Gil from driving, but a foul probably shouldn't have been called. But then again, I don't know if Caron's foul call should have been called either.

Of course, watching the game at the VC is awesome for the atmosphere and being out there. You can't replace that aspect of the game.

I'm just glad we got the benefit of the doubt instead of the other team, like it has been happening for so many years. Hopefully it'll eventually balance out b/c we are still owed many. :D

Posted by: Going G.A.G.A. over Gilbert | March 5, 2007 6:53 PM | Report abuse

"I'm just glad we got the benefit of the doubt instead of the other team, like it has been happening for so many years. Hopefully it'll eventually balance out b/c we are still owed many. :D"

That's what I'm saying.

I don't feel bad by it all. Actually in my mind these are the kind of things that happen to good teams.

What if Gil got slammed and they made no call? That's the way it would have happend not too long ago.

Not a great win, but a win. It could have been a loss. They just don't play well on Sundays. Right Lisa? ;)

Tracy, the "Big 3" are really beat up right now. Right before Jamison went down they were firing on all cylinders, they looked really good. Give it a couple weeks and then we'll see, Jamison just came back and it appears both Caron and Gil are feeling better.

Haywood out is going to hurt the Wiz especially on the defensive side. Jordan gives the guy no help over there, he's better then some of you think.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | March 5, 2007 7:04 PM | Report abuse

Ray, I agree on Haywood. I know he has his limitations, but like you said his defense is big on this team.

I've said this many times, but your bigs are your last line of defense. As we know one of our bigs, Jamison, doesn't do a very good job of that, but he's very good in other aspects.

Some excel on defense, others on offense - that's why it's a team sport and it's the coach's job to make the best use of them at all times! Are you listening EJ??? :)

Posted by: Going G.A.G.A. over Gilbert | March 5, 2007 7:19 PM | Report abuse

Ray, it's funny you should say that :)

You have been stating all season that the Wiz do not win on Sundays....and I keep harping on a win they got over Sacramento LAST season.

Yesterday before the game, Steve Buckhantz said "you know, the Wiz do not play well in the afternoon" - he did not specify Sunday but it was along the same line. I actually thought of you when he said that.

Posted by: Lisa | March 5, 2007 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the great insight Ivan.

Nellie said he didn't make any off color comments, and that he was hit with a T for being on the floor.... yeah right!

Posted by: Rook | March 5, 2007 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Funny thing is a few weeks ago some were pillaring Gilbert for his endless self promotion. I can't help but wonder if our starter in the Allstar Game wasn't driving the lane as time expired, would we have gotten that call?
As I said before after the Allstar break playoff teams get the calls and the stars get even more. What is Gil supposed to do, wait around and wait for Barkley to promote the Wiz on TNT?

Posted by: GM | March 5, 2007 7:45 PM | Report abuse

Victor, Caron is in a little funk and will get it rolling again soon. There is some team depth, but only if EJ doesn't do complete wholesale substitutions that could expose some lesser experienced / confidenced players. Put them in positions to gain experience and confidence first, then they can be an asset later on. See how Phil Jackson plays his bench, EJ should take an example from that.

I wouldn't hold out for that certain troll to own up to anything, as history has shown. Hold your expectations to be low on this one, that way you won't be disappointed as you're apt to be.

Posted by: lol | March 5, 2007 8:16 PM | Report abuse

"I can't help but wonder if our starter in the Allstar Game wasn't driving the lane as time expired, would we have gotten that call?"

Exactly GM.

For years and years I've watched other teams roll into Washington and get those calls on the Bullets/Wiz. Why? Because the Wiz/Bullets were just a door stop for other teams on the way to the playoffs and believe me the refs called it that way.

NBA refs ARE biased and don't ever believe otherwise. Hopefully they won't fine me for saying that. ;)

They freakin won this time and got the benefit now everyone, including Wilbon, is crying "foul." He's been here long enough, he should know better.

Com'on geeze Washington Sports writers. Write about how the Wiz are getting the breaks now that they didn't in years past.

Why do you think Barkley keeps putting down the Wiz? Because he used to get those calls all of the time against the Bullets. Him and stinky broken back Ric Mahorn. He still considers the Wiz a joke of years past.(read my MJ reference in the above post)

Ivan & Mike, you reading?

Good teams get these kind of breaks. The Wiz are FINALLY getting these kinds of calls they NEVER EVER would have gotten in the past.

"Yesterday before the game, Steve Buckhantz said "you know, the Wiz do not play well in the afternoon" - he did not specify Sunday but it was along the same line."

Funny thing is I heard that also and was wondering if you were listening, lol!

Again, they won. It was a gift but they finally got a break they might not have before.

As crazy of an ending as it was I'm happy that they won, not sad that they won.

The Toronto game is HUGE. I have to work so I'm going to miss it. :(

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | March 5, 2007 10:17 PM | Report abuse

GM that is a very salient point you make. The fact that Gilbert has gotten the all-star nod and all the pub, that is the sort of call that someone of that level gets. And even if I think it is horsecrap, I am glad we have someone on the Wizards who get those calls.
And you know what there will be more calls like that for him except when they play Miami or someone of that level.

Posted by: George Templeton | March 5, 2007 10:24 PM | Report abuse

lol: Want to make it clear, I'm not busting on Caron @ all. I was the 1 who suggested prior to the allstar break that he was in a slump. Didn't know it @ the time, but he was hurt.

I totally agree with EJ learning from Phil Jackson & trusting his bench. The guy goes 12 deep during the season & keeps his starters fresh for when he has to play them big minutes in the playoffs.
I really believe EJ is trying to do that.
Albeit slooooooowly. AJ looks totally refreshed after his injury. He was bouncy all weekend! I think Gil is even getting some big rest also & realizing he can't be effective dinged up.

btw, Want to see the kid AB play straight up vs. Bosh & Bargiani tomorrow night.
Time to show we have a young big of our own also!

Less we give that troll airtime the better.

Posted by: Victor | March 5, 2007 10:27 PM | Report abuse

To follow on to some old farts here talking about hypothetical situations and idiotic things such as Agent Gilby making the all star game having an effect on the refs making a payback foul call, you could easily also say that if Agent Gilby had rested his shoulder, then he probably would have gotten the shot off and made it instead of relying on the ref to bail him out with a phantom foul with zero seconds left on the clock.

Here's Ivan's theory, which is probably more credible than anyone's on here, and says absolutely nothing about any stupid all star credentials for getting the foul call.

"Now, this is my theory: Brothers knew that his partner, Darrick Stafford, had made a tough call on Butler on the other end (several Wizards admitted that Butler fouled Harrington but the call could have been let go in that situation) and he made up for it but only after seeing that the Arenas shot did not go in. I believe that Brothers wanted to call the foul but did not want to give Arenas an And 1 for the victory."

Based on Ivan's theory, anybody taking the last shot would have gotten the payback foul. In any regard, Nellie blew his top, so lucky for Les Boules, Agent Gilby didn't choke on the free throw line this time. Hurray!

Posted by: DC Man88 | March 5, 2007 11:13 PM | Report abuse

The next time you are in line at the grocery store, pick up a Washingtonian magazine and turn to page 18. There is a nice piece on Ivan (I thought only Wilbon and Kornheiser made it in Washintonian?). Anyway, check it out.

Posted by: Henry | March 6, 2007 7:10 AM | Report abuse

"btw, Want to see the kid AB play straight up vs. Bosh & Bargiani tomorrow night."

Why so you can watch Bosh sink 15 straight again? Last time they played them Bosh ABUSED Haywood and Blatche and they won easily.

Probably one of the only match-up I'll ever say this, I'm looking forward to Jamison Defence tonight. Bosh is too Quick for Haywood,Booth, Thomas too tall for Butler or Hayes and too experinced for Blatche.


Posted by: dc | March 6, 2007 7:48 AM | Report abuse

Anyone that I've ever talked to that is a true NBA fan will tell you that NBA refs do have a star system in place when making calls. If a person hasn't watched enough NBA basketball to figure out that basic fact then they really don't have enough basic knowledge of the game to enter into even a rudimentry discussion.
Ray, speaking of Barkley and star calls at the end of the game, remember the time we were inbounding at the end of the game and he threw our guy in the stands and dribbled 2/3 the length of the court for the winning basket? Story was that he announced it before he did it. "Chump I'm going to throw your ass in the stands and then take this ball and score the winning basket!" and the rest is history.
George, the only way to get to that next level with calls is to go deep in the playoffs. The Bucks had Allen, Cassell and Big Dog together somewhat like our Big three. They were Allstars and regular playoff team, could they get calls against the Bulls or Knicks? No, they hadn't proved they had the toughness to go deep into the playoffs. And that toughness is more mental than physical. That's what you had to like about Gil telling the Warriors to get on the bus before he made the last shot. A sign of toughness, sometimes struggling a little helps build that toughness faster than easy sailing.
Interesting yesterday people were pillaring the Warriors and I thought I had seen a pretty good NBA team. But, sometimes your old eyes can deceive you and you think I'll watch this team again. They went out last night and handled the Pistons on a second night of a back to back on the road 111 to 93. Nellie's got that team on the right track, winning after losing a heartbreaker like that the night before, he's got some players there with the toughness to shine in this league.

Posted by: GM | March 6, 2007 7:58 AM | Report abuse

"The way I want to coach right now with my team is, I want to play a lot of people,"

This was taken from Ivan's articel today.

Ok, I don't buy what Jordan sells anymore because if it wasn't for injuries earlier in the season he wouldn't have had a shorter rotation at all. It actually helped the team because it forced him to do so. This is coupled with the fact that Hayes has seen more minutes instead of less as people have gotten healthy.

This isn't necessarily a knock on Hayes, but let's be honest he hasn't been playing well at all this year.

He can say he wants to play a lot of people, but he consitently plays the same people over and over again in the same situations, especially in the 4th quarter where he gets duped into a smaller lineup by the other squad aka "smallball."

Are the "Big 3" playing less minutes? Nope, not when healthy.

Jordan's rotations are horrid and inconsistent, they mess up team chemistry. His philosophy is "Big 3" and anyone else.

Sorry Ivan, I know your just reporting but it's too late in the season to make me believe that what he does with rotations are best for the team. He just doesn't know how to move his pieces.

Hopefully he'll tighten them up in the post-season, but I know if everyone is healthy I'm going to see Ruffin and Hayes on the floor in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line when they should both be on the bench.

He can say what he wants but until I see it on a regular basis I won't believe it.

"Ray, speaking of Barkley..."

Yeah he has no respect for the Wiz, couple this with the fact him and MJ are good friends. Even if the Wiz were to win everything he would still be putting them down.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | March 6, 2007 8:42 AM | Report abuse

GM, Good point about the Warriors. I agree that they have the nucleus of a good team; and you can't find a better coach. Except, I still think his Tech was a bonehead move.

Some on this blog think that winnning a couple of close games against losing teams means that the Wiz have a problem. YEAH - it's called rust. Give em a week or so playing together again, and you'll see the Mid-January team back again.

50-wins and the Division - Exit in Conference finals - I love this team; they're headed in the right direction, and building for a long run.

(And EJ playing 12 guys? Who turned on the light switch?)

Posted by: Rook | March 6, 2007 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Sometimes when Barkley mouth moves I think it's MJ talking. When he trashes somebody and uses an unnamed NBA management source we all know who's talking. D Wade can't get in Barkley's five but I sure bet Barkley did!

Posted by: GM | March 6, 2007 9:00 AM | Report abuse

I meant MJ did! That's what I get for typing and working on something else!

Posted by: GM | March 6, 2007 9:02 AM | Report abuse

There is clearly a star system in the league where the better players get the calls. In this specific instance though with the phantom foul, as clearly stated by Ivan, the ref Tony Brothers called it as a makeup foul.

As Ivan theorized, Brothers realized that his co-ref Darrick Stafford should not have called the foul on Caron on the previous play, so he made up for Caron's foul by calling another foul against Golden State when the Wizards got the possession and had to score to tie the game.

It was makeup foul, not a star system foul. If we're talking star system, then Caron shouldn't have been assessed a foul on on Harrington, as Ivan said. Caron is generally known as a tough, but clean defender. Caron of course, is our other All Star, and did not get the benefit of the star system.

Posted by: DC Man88 | March 6, 2007 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Ray, I agree with your earlier assessments of EJ's rotations, but the last two games he's played 12 guys.

Now that he has Song back from injury, and has more confidence in Mason and Blatche, maybe we'll see a more consistent rotation. It's hard to be consistent when you don't have all the pieces.

I can understand not trusting young and inexperienced players like Mason and Blatche. Taylor and Lang (when he was here) didn't show me much.

But my question is where was Booth all year? EJ kept using Jamison at the 5, while Booth sat on the bench. Booth is long, blocks shots, has a good basketball IQ, does not turn the ball over, plays adequate D, is a good passer and has a decent mid-short range shot. Should be perfect for Eddie's offense - but he sat most of the first half of the year. The guy's not an all-star, but he is a good solid pro. AND he can also play the 4!
(Unlike Thomas or Haywood).

Why was he ignored? Did he miss practice? Was he hiding behind Taylor at the end of the bench? Was he caught hanging out with John "Party" Ramos?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that Booth should be playing 25 minutes a game - but when you didn't have Ruffin, and Songaila was out, EJ should have used Booth. Only when AJ went out was Eddie forced to use Booth, Blatche and to a lesser extent Mason.

Now that we have Jamison, Haywood, Thomas, Blatche, Songaila and Booth - I hope we never see "small ball" again (AJ at 5, and Hayes at 4)...!!!

Posted by: Rook | March 6, 2007 9:24 AM | Report abuse

To add, if it was a star system foul, Brothers would have called the foul immediately, not after time had expired. Instead, he waited until AFTER seeing that Arenas did not score the bucket and after time ran out to call the foul.

If Arenas had made the shot, Brothers would NOT have called the foul, so as not to give Arenas the "And 1." Brothers was more likely to hope that Arenas would score and tie the game to make up for Caron's foul resulting in Harrington's two made free throws, but Arenas missed the shot.

Ivan: "I believe that Brothers wanted to call the foul but did not want to give Arenas an And 1 for the victory.
"

Posted by: DC Man88 | March 6, 2007 9:27 AM | Report abuse

EJ goes with a 12 man rotation because he goes with whomever is hot. Whoever is hot will get the call. He's not sticking with set lineups outside of his core 3 guys.

Posted by: DC Man88 | March 6, 2007 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Rook, I guess Nellie had one of those senior moments! Conspiracy Theories, phantom Fouls, wow this game sure got complicated, for 41 yrs. of watching the NBA it was pretty simple you put the ball in your best player's hands at the end of the game. If he draws that much contact, and he did, it's a foul plain and simple. And if he goes to the line and makes em. Well as Buchhantz says...DAGGER! End of discussion!

Posted by: GM | March 6, 2007 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Yeah......it's so simple that it was too simple so they invented the as admitted "star system" just to complicate things. That's where you really don't need to draw any contact, but are pretty much guaranteed a visit to the charity stripe if you have all star credentials. Yeah....

If the NBA was a perfect game called by robots, then if there was a foul, then the foul would have been called right there. In this case, Brothers, a human, waited until after determining whether the bucket was scored, which it was not, to call the makeup foul.

Posted by: DC Man88 | March 6, 2007 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Ok, I know ray is going to kill me for this but:

"Good big ppl beat good little ppl" - Ken Beatrice.

EJ is coming around.
ha ha

Posted by: Victor | March 6, 2007 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Rook,

The dude Mason is actually older than Arenas - more like 27. The brother is no young rookie.

Truth be told, EJ has to use what he's got to hold on to the lead in the southeast.

Is called survival of the fittest.

Posted by: jaj | March 6, 2007 10:44 AM | Report abuse

jaj, Mason is older but he's had limited playing time and experience in the 3 years he's been in the league as opposed to Gil's 6th year w/ a lot of time on the floor. I think that's what Rook was trying to state.

Posted by: Going G.A.G.A. over Gilbert | March 6, 2007 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Mason is 26 but he is inexperienced. Happy he is gaining experience now. He has a sweet shot. Wish he would grab Hayes minutes but he cant play forward like Jarvis.

Posted by: wcac | March 6, 2007 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Hayes' minutes should go to Booth or Blatche. And I like all the talk about playing a lot of people, but lets face it, it's a "when I see I'll believe scenario." The Big 3 need to play less if they are going to have anything left in the tank come May and June, but I am not sure coach Jordan is going to do that.

Posted by: George Templeton | March 6, 2007 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Unfortunately, if he was waiting to see if Arenas made the shot before making the call and if the ball did go in, they would have reviewed the play and determined that it was shot after the buzzer - resulting in a loss. Refs need to just call em like they see em and stop trying to determine the outcome of a game.

Posted by: gvp | March 6, 2007 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Ray and Rook,I think the one thing that I've heard EJ say consistantly about playing time is that he likes to reward hard work at practice. Nice to try and reward work ethic in practice("are we talkin bout practice!")but I think it has contributed to inconsistant rotations and weird combinations.
One concern that I've had with our roster this year was trying to carry three projects(Blatch,Taylor,Lang and now Hill)and a borderline player like Mason on a club that has been at the top of the Eastern Conference all year. Contrast that with the Vets that Miami and Detroit have on their bench to build a playoff rotation and you see my concern.
The good news is that Blatch has developed from a project to a rising young NBA player and Mason has shown the ability to be a useful role player in this league.
It's far enough into the season that Eddie needs to develope his rotation based on what he's seen these players do to this point. And find roles for them that fit their talents.
I agree, I don't think that Booth is a 35 min. a night player. He's the kind of guy that can give you 10-15 minutes of solid ball per night when he has a defined role. Ruffin can give us useful minutes, just not in the 4th at the 5. And Jarvis is giving us solid minutes at shooting gaurd and small forward, just keep him out of the power forward slot.
If Eddie wants to play a version of small ball he needs to use Blatch, Songalia, or Booth at the 5 instead of Ruffin depending on what the other team has on the floor. Keep Jamison at the 4 if he wants him on the court and never at 5 even in smallball. Don't expect Butler to matchup against 4's and 5's which means you need 2 of the guys I just mentioned or Bendan or Etan out there too.
In short the Wiz can go quick, put more offense on the floor or go long, but never really small. They shouldn't have to go small to create matchups for almost any situation.
Well anyway, another game tonight that we need to get against a rising young team that people thought were a bunch of chumps when they beat us in the last meeting. Then we can get back to talking about a game instead of practice, rotations, consiracy theories, robot refs, or make up calls.
Robot referees???? Wow!!! I just couldn't leave that one alone...

Posted by: GM | March 6, 2007 12:16 PM | Report abuse

"EJ is coming around."

Lol, not! ;)

I agree that good big people beat good little people though. Someone should tell Jordan. :)

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | March 6, 2007 12:18 PM | Report abuse

We need to give our "quick side forward (as coined by Ken Beatrice)," Jarvis, a chance.

Posted by: DC Man88 | March 6, 2007 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Chris Bosh just now went 32 and 15.

DC Man88, I am having a hard time believing you are a real person. I believe that you are a figment of my imagination created to speak the exact opposite viewpoint of mine. It's uncanny. Also, filthy Ken Beatrice reference.

Posted by: Bernard King | March 6, 2007 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Is tonight's game on any DirecTV channel? The Nets game last week wasn't (channel8), but sometimes DirectV puts channel8 games on 659.

Posted by: Tuna | March 6, 2007 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I can never figure the logic of Direct TV and news channel 8. They don't carry it so how come they black out games on the ticket and say they're available in our viewing area. Yeah but not on Direct TV !
Sometimes I have found the game on an alternative channel like 659 and then sometimes they don't black out the away teams feed on the ticket and I get the game but have to listen to the other teams announcers.
But the short answer is Damned if I know til I sit down at 7pm and search! One my son's using my tickets tonight hope it's a good game, we could use a win over the Raptors. They sure have improved since they played that exhibition game here in Nov.
Benard King, Some people just like to be different, what ever I say, he takes the exact opposite position. So from here on out in my book he's a "Rhodes Scholar of Basketball" the man is an absulute genius!

Posted by: GM | March 6, 2007 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Jarvis has had enough of a chance. I was actually ready to recant all my Jarvis criticism and then came the 4th quarter of the game with the Heat that I went to last week. Three times Jarvis got wide open looks for the Wizards when they game was still in the balance and three times he wasn't even close. Enough of Jarvis freaking Hayes.

Posted by: George Templeton | March 6, 2007 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Bernard King, I was going to say the same thing about you! What a coincidence.

Posted by: DC Man88 | March 6, 2007 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Comcast subscribers, the game is on News Ch.8. Good luck to all others!

Posted by: Going G.A.G.A. over Gilbert | March 6, 2007 7:15 PM | Report abuse

Comcast is evil. Down with Comcast!

Posted by: Victor | March 6, 2007 8:39 PM | Report abuse

I'm just incensed that Caron didn't get the infamous star treatment, but instead, was assessed a foul against Harrington. Anyone that I've ever talked to that is a true NBA fan will tell you that NBA refs do have a star system in place when making calls.

Caron is our all star too, and if the dumb ref didn't call the foul against Caron, we wouldn't even be talking about the makeup foul against Pietras! Can't a star catch a break around here!

Posted by: DC Man88 | March 6, 2007 8:56 PM | Report abuse

After the way the Wizards got pasted up in Toronto last time, how wonderful is it to see the Wizards stick it to the Raptors in the same fashion. I just love it! I haven't seen much of the second half, but Washington in the first half looked like they did in Jan.-Dec. Tremendous!

Posted by: George Templeton | March 6, 2007 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Now THAT was a fabulous victory!!!!

Posted by: Lisa | March 6, 2007 9:35 PM | Report abuse

That was easy tonight. We stepped on them early & they never recovered.

Better starting 5 & 12 man unit than Toronto. BIG rest for starters.

Destroyed the supposed more athletic Raptors on the glass on both ends.

CB is still not 100% but looks like AJ & Gil are back.

& AD really came to play tonite.

t/o's still a little bothersome.
But a win is a win.
23 games to the playoffs.
Can we get 16 wins to get to 50?!

Posted by: Victor | March 6, 2007 9:37 PM | Report abuse

What I noticed was that after Caron and AJ got back, EJ has made a concerted effort to get the guys to run the princeton offense rather than a one on one show. This is good, and no one man (ie. Agent Gilby) was hogging the ball entirely for this game. Team tonight averaged almost 10 more assists higher than season average.

Raptors were pretty much outclassed tonight. They couldn't outrun Les Boules, and couldn't out muscle them, except for Bosh. One thing though, if people are comparing AB to KG, then Bosh needs to be way ahead of AB on that line. Bosh is good, but he can't will them a win if a team is clicking on all cylinders. Jarvis made some critical plays too.

Posted by: DC Man88 | March 6, 2007 9:44 PM | Report abuse

Great win.

Just 30 minutes of PT for Jamison, and only 26 minutes for Caron and Gilbert a piece . . .

Great team effort, excellent bench production tonight. The players should be rested for tomorrow night's game in ATL.

Also noticed how EJ broke out the rotation of Jamison, Hayes, Daniels, Blatche, and Mason in the 2Q for the first time this year--that one held the line against Toronto's first team. Not too bad. A good mix of talent and experience.

Game balls for everyone!

Posted by: JP2 | March 6, 2007 9:45 PM | Report abuse

I like the Wizards, I really respect Arenas he's awesome and I wish we never lost him.

But even he said "I'll thank the refs for that one!" implying that they won the game because of the refs. Come on. Tony Brothers is an idiot, he approached Pat Riley once outside of an NBA venue and threatened him, causing a 2 game suspension. What kind of professional does that?

The fact that Wizards fans showed such a massive response to this column proves that you all know something crazy happened that night. Don't even bring that Caron foul, that's b.s., a foul on a center is one thing, ticky tacking Agent Zero and getting 3 fouls after the games over to win it, that's another.

And Tuna, go cook yourself... you know what else smells like Tuna?

ya. T me up.

Posted by: Warrior fan | March 6, 2007 9:59 PM | Report abuse

Can you believe EJ actually played a full game w/o any real Smallball? Result? The Wiz outrebound the Raptors by about 20! I really liked the 2nd line w/ AB and DS at the 4 and 5 positions. Good passing, hustle, and defense by those two. They work pretty well together. Booth also contributed a lot in the time he was there, another savvy vet like DS but w/ shotblocking skills.

Keep the rotations similar to tonight and the Wiz can come out running and boarding all night. A great team win by sharing the ball all around, not just by the 1st team, but also the reserves even near the end when it was all but decided. Good to see.

Posted by: Going G.A.G.A. over Gilbert | March 6, 2007 10:03 PM | Report abuse

"A great team win by sharing the ball all around"

I missed the second half but caught the box score, that's what it really looked like to me. :)

Maybe Wilbon will stop kissing Toronto's butt, he was on the bandwagon also.

Looks like people are healthy too, that's most important.

As George said they looked like they did before Jamison went down. The keep playing like that they will be tough to beat.

Again, it's imperative they get home court for the playoffs. Makes yesterday's win against the Warriors stand out even more doesn't it?

The Wiz are a good team and they should counted as such. It's all about respect.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | March 6, 2007 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Wow, Toronto only had 27 rebounds.

That's crazy.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | March 6, 2007 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Hey DC Man88. Good post and good observations re tonight's game. If you could give us more of that rather than some of the sh*t and personal attacks you've posted in the past, people would be much more welcoming of your participation on this blog....

Posted by: pk1 | March 6, 2007 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Recap: Warriors 106, Wizards 107 - Yo Mama...
http://goldenstateofmind.com/story/2007/3/4/2319/44656

Posted by: Golden State of Mind | March 6, 2007 11:39 PM | Report abuse

The 29 assists is something they are capable of every night if they run the Princeton offense consistently and execute.

Posted by: George Templeton | March 6, 2007 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Uh...can u say conspiracy??? Mr. stern and the refs he controlls all know that the warriors haven't made the playoffs in 12 years...and it is my belief they want it to continue. That "foul" may have been the worst call in the last few years...Gilbert Arenas can suck my hibachi...man he'd be nuthin if the warriors didn't draft him...Gilbert and the rest of the wizards shouldn't even get off the bus in the playoffs cuz they aint even gunna win 1 game...agent 0 ha...more like THE BIG 0

Posted by: Nate | March 7, 2007 5:21 AM | Report abuse

Man the Warrior game was so 3 days ago. Get over it already. You'd think the Warrior fans were upset by the ref's call or something. :)

Posted by: medcina | March 7, 2007 7:56 AM | Report abuse

I think REAL Warriors fans would be strutting their stuff over a big road win over the Pistons. They maybe unhappy over getting robbed(their view, not mine) here in DC. But they would be seriously bragging on their big win in Detroit. I'd have to beleive we've got some more bogus posters trying to stir up trouble here.
Before we all crown the Wizards with the title, first of all I'd like to repeat,"You're never as good as you look when you're winning or as bad as you look when you're lossing." But boy didn't the Wiz look GREAT last night!
Good effort, whole team came out focused and confident, great ball movement, threw enough different looks at Bosh to keep him from going off, and some great new combinations in the rotation. A few to many turnovers, but that can be expected when team is concentrating on ball movement and playing 12 players at the same time.
Eddie's best coaching effort of the year, team went out and did the job and he was able to limit the starter's minutes nicely setting up for the second game of a back to back tonight in Atlanta. Need to keep the intensity in place tonight to complete the sweep.
Liked the combinations that he used last night. We can do alot of different things with this full roster without going small. Loved the board work, Blatch, Booth and Songalia did some really good work off the bench coming in and banging the boards. Wasn't it great to see Daniels bouncing around the court and playing like a demon. And Jarvis gave the team nearly 23 minutes of good solid ball at the 3 and 4.
The basis for alot of what happened last night was layed in the losing streak. Many of the bench players played pretty well in that stretch just not good enough to get wins, but I saw some real progress. Lets hope it carries on to tonight.

Posted by: GM | March 7, 2007 9:08 AM | Report abuse

It's great that Les Boules got the win in a big fashion last night, as I posted earlier, but Bosh had two very memorable plays. In one play, he was facing AJ and did a little shake, and drove to the hole and dunked. The shake froze AJ who was left basically flatfooted on that play. AJ just turned around quick enough to see Bosh dunk.

In a back to the basket move against Booth, he did an old school Kevin McHale up and under which made Booth look pretty bad, but was bailed out by a Blatche foul on Bosh. Who would have thought a big man one year out of college could be so talented and have those kind of moves. Not too crazy about the Hellraiser hairstyle though.

I was actually shocked that after Antonio Daniels had a coaches DNP and with EJ public scolding, AD responded with an excellent game. It wasn't long ago that everyone was up in arms during AD's first season here where he didn't produce immediately. Now, he's valued for his veteran leadership.

Posted by: DC Man88 | March 7, 2007 9:27 AM | Report abuse

I meant Bosh with one year of college experience, not one year out of college.

Posted by: DC Man88 | March 7, 2007 9:30 AM | Report abuse

71 points in a half? Sheesh.

I have just three words for da Wiz today:

NO. LETDOWN. TONIGHT.

Posted by: iceberg | March 7, 2007 11:02 AM | Report abuse

My fellow posters:

THIS WAS THE BEST GAME OF THE YEAR FOR THE WIZ - WHY:

1 Great ball movement - best all season!
2 Great bench play
3 Great shooting and shot selection
4 Jarvis contributed with hustle, defense, and rebounding not just missed jumpers
5 No small ball!!!
6 No Michael Ruffin
7 Yes Calvin Booth
8 Great rebounding
9 Big three only had to play 30 mins or less in a whooping!
10 No big lead squandering!

Need more games like tonight, at least, in terms of bench play, ball movement, and rotation usage by EJ.

Posted by: Rob P | March 7, 2007 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Rob P, I'd add INTENSITY to that list. As a team they came out with the best intensity of the season and seemed to maintain it one thru twelve!
Where Eddie's rotations sometimes lack focus, last night it seemed like they had a plan and stuck with it. A good gameplan that was well thought out and executed. I thought Eddie and the coaching staff were well prepared and at the top of their game, they showed a great level of intensity for this game.
If the Wiz can maintain this level of intensity down the stretch they have made a good first step to elevating their game to playoff level.

Posted by: GM | March 7, 2007 11:50 AM | Report abuse

"6 No Michael Ruffin
7 Yes Calvin Booth"

I don't even want to go there. ;)

"NO. LETDOWN. TONIGHT."

It's Atlanta, com'on. :)

I'm calling blow-out because it appears everyone is healthy again. Let's just hope the Wiz stay that way the rest of the season.

I'm gonna take the opportuniy to give Hayes his props after reeming him all season. Let's all hope he just continues to play CONSISTENTLY. I still think his knee is bothering him, he reaches for it alot.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | March 7, 2007 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Once again, BHay shows up & sets the tempo with that block on Bosh. Intensity is right GM. I know some of you don't believe in BHay & we all can throw stats @ each other. But with him in the Big3 & DS they're playng .800 ball.

Posted by: Victor | March 7, 2007 1:44 PM | Report abuse

I guess nobody cared nor noticed that Etan Thomas was excused from the game to tend to family issues.

Posted by: DC Man88 | March 7, 2007 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Victor, I don't think Haywood has really got enough credit for his hard work and intensity this year. Almost every time I've got to the phone booth early Haywood has been out there working. So has Blatch.
He has still had some of those nights that he disappears but there sure haven't been many this year. I thought he showed alot of confidence in the last Heat game playing Shack one on one. That was something where he used to look really hesitant when he didn't get help. A couple of times in the last game he gestured, I've got him to other players. That's a big step in his confidence.
I'm not trying to stir a pot, but last night the team looked focused and confident and there was great intensity. But no Poet. Any connection? Something that will be worth watching. I hope Etan can jump on board with everybody else and kick this thing in playoff overdrive.

Posted by: GM | March 7, 2007 2:18 PM | Report abuse

GM:
I was listening to the 980 post game call-in & the BHay bashers were out in force. Not sure who they are watching but the guy always seem to run the court & play tough center lane Defense.

Yes he does have feet of clay but he is long & affects shots. with the Big3 taking most of the offensive shots, if BH would only concentrate on playing goalie & rebounding & it could earn another big payday!

Another guy who is overlooked by many & has really taken over the Ruffin role is Boothe. Really impressed with his defensive play AND he will hit the open jumper occasionally.

He's not as good as Ruffin at playing volleyball but his length gives other team a pause. Like I said before, if we can throw a bunch of 6'9" -6'11" guys at the opposition, it will wear on them in the playoffs.

Posted by: Victor | March 7, 2007 3:34 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards have no excuse to lose tonight, they won at a canter last night and the intensity should pick up now that the stretch run of this season is started. It's time to start getting in a good position for the playoffs.
Rob P the fact that you put ball movement first on your list is right on the mark. That is when this team is at its best, when the ball is going everywhere and everyone is contributing. Not too many teams in the NBA lose when they record 29 assists in a game and as good an offensive team as Washington is, if they are running Eddie's offense they can outscore anyone they want to at any time (and that includes the schmoes in the Western conference).

Posted by: George Templeton | March 7, 2007 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Boy, it looks like Kobe Bryant got suspended AGAIN for ANOTHER wild swing of the arm after getting his shot blocked by MARKO JARIC. That seems to be a nasty habit, not a one time thing. Either that, or he just hates getting his shot blocked by some white guys (Ginobili, Jaric, ???) J/K. ;)

Posted by: Going G.A.G.A. over Gilbert | March 7, 2007 4:22 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards got LUCKY. I'm glad the refs gave it to us tho!

Posted by: AJ | March 7, 2007 5:41 PM | Report abuse

As I was going over the standings this morning I noticed that the Miami Heat were the 6 spot. That would match them up against us. They're aren't thinking about a division title, we are. They're champions playing for a chance to defend their title. Of the top 4 teams the Wizards have the worst record against the Heat. The Wizards are currently 3rd (I missed the announcement of the new rule that instead of the division leaders getting the top 3 seeds can now seed no lower than 4th. In my opinion, to help the West) and would play who else but, you guessed it, the Miami Heat. I think the Heat plan on shadowing the Wizards for the rest of the regular season so they can meet up in the playoffs. The Wizards barely beat a Miami team that didn't feature Shaq or D. Wade. Why not play the Wizards without D. Wade and give him a chance to rest until the second round.

Posted by: Tee Brooks, Landover | March 7, 2007 11:51 PM | Report abuse

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