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Thibodeau has "change of heart", steps down

The news of the day is that assistant coach Tom Thibodeau, who was hired to join Coach Eddie Jordan's staff last week, experienced a "change of heart" and stepped down from his post this morning before the summer league team had its first official workout.

Thibodeau had been in the building for a few days for meetings with Jordan and the coaching staff and was already in the process of outlining some new defensive schemes for the upcoming season. Jordan's carry-over assistants - Mike O'Koren, Phil Hubbard and Wes Unseld Jr. - signed one-year contract extensions on Friday. The contracts were offered on Thursday. I have no idea whether that situation had anything to do with Thibodeau's decision because I have not been able to reach the guy since he came on staff.

"He decided to have a change of heart," Jordan said, following today's workout. "He is going to back to Houston (where Thibodeau lives,not to the work for the Rockets) and he's going to pursue other options. He was here for four or five days, we came to some agreements and then we had a meeting with him this morning. We thought he was terrific here going through some things but he decided to go in another direction."

Me to Eddie: "How does this affect your coaching staff situation."

Eddie: "Well, we have other guys here, signed under contracts. We're going to move further along with this additional assistant coach position when we go to Vegas. We already have some other guys we've spoken to along with Tom and we've got some guys that we like and they are under consideration. We'll go ahead and meet with them in Vegas and move along with this."

Had a chance to speak to Ernie about this and he was just as surprised by Thibodeau's decison as anybody. He said he hadn't even spoken with Thibodeau about it yet (this was around 3 p.m. today). I'm trying to reach Thibodeau but the guy has always kep a low profile with media types so I'm not expecting much. I'll keep you posted.

The summer league team practices twice tomorrow and once Monday before heading to Vegas. The team plays its first game on Tuesday against the Sacramento "Summer" Kings. Right now, I have no idea who the other candidates are and I'm still in the process of figuring out what went down with Thibodeau.

- As for the SL squad: Nick Young, Oleksiy Pecherov and second-round pick Dominic McGuire were all on hand along with 12 other prospects. I'm told that as many as four guys could be cut loose before Vegas. We didn't see the entire workout but I saw enough at the end to get an early read on Young and McGuire.

-Young clearly is comfortable with a basketball in his hands. His jumper looks smooth either in catch-and-shoot situations or when he's curling off a screen and in the one-on-one drills, he either got to the rim or created room for his shot with ease. During one encounter, he shook free from Mike Hall's good defense with a smooth crossover dribble that led directly into a jumper that hit nothing but net. There is a smoothness to Young's overall game that reminds of someone but I can't quite put a finger on who it is yet. I'll know more as I see the kid in these practices this weekend and then learn more next week in Vegas. (Man I can't wait).

-McGuire just looks like an NBA player, you know what I mean? He's a legit 6-foot-8 with long arms and a lean but strong frame. He moves his feet very well on defense and has excellent ball handling ability. I can see why the guy posted two triple-doubles at Fresno State last season. One of them consisted of pts, rebounds and assists and the other of pts, rebounds and blocks. How many guys have done that? I talked to him after the workout and he told me that his versatility stems from the fact that he always played guard until he hit a five inch growth spurt late in high school. His jumper will be the early question mark.

Eddie made it no secret that he's already a fan of McGuire: "He's made an impact already in his workouts and in the first day of practice. He's made himself seen. He can get to the basket off the dribble. He drives, he cuts, he gets offensive rebounds. He pushes the ball on the break. He's very athletic. He's probably made the biggest impact, to me, already. I'm saying geez, this guy's a second round pick? I'm treating our scouts to a milkshake."

Eddie on McGuire's defense: "Je He's got this long reach, he gets into a great defensive stance to stay active. He's active on the ball, off the ball, in the lane, out of the lane. He's just real aggressive everywhere. He's everywhere. He was probably in every play in what we did today in terms of 5-on-5 (the part we reporters didn't see much of). He stood out, he really stood out. He's not a guy who you think is a second-round pick who was struggling a little bit. No, no no. He looked experienced already. He's good. I like him."


I'll be writing about them for tomorrow's paper but will also come back later with a more in-depth breakdown of the day's activity.

-Gilbert poked his head into the gym during the workout and said he's coming along on schedule. He told me that the knee is close to 100 percent and that he's back dunking a basketball again already. He looked slim and trim. In fact, I patted his gut just to make sure he hasn't been putting on any extra weight and his abs were cut. That's a good sign.

-For a full summer league roster, got to www.washingtonwizards.com. The key notables after Young, McGuire and Pecherov are former GW ballers Mike Hall and J.R. Pinnock, G Lee Humprhey who just won a national championship with Florida, former Kansas PG Aaron Miles, DC native Brian Chase and F Kyle Visser, who put up good numbers at Wake Forest last season.

By Ivan Carter  |  July 7, 2007; 2:27 PM ET
 
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Next: Vegas baby!

Comments

Hmmm...wonder what made Tom Thibodeau step down so soon?

Posted by: Lisa | July 7, 2007 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Awwwwww all the blogger will be disappointed that theories of Tommy T taking over for Jordan won't be true. :_(

Eddie is the best coach we have had in a long time.

Look forward to catch the summer league team next week.

Posted by: dc | July 7, 2007 3:11 PM | Report abuse

As always, great work Ivan

Posted by: Anonymous | July 7, 2007 3:36 PM | Report abuse

They got pics of the workout on the Wizard's website. Can't tell much from the pics, but notice Visser there, he's looks a legit center, clearly bigger than Pecherov. Also have a shot of Blatche watching the workout.

Ivan, did you see any of Pesh and Visser out there?

Yeah, McGuire is gonna be a good one!

Ivan, you know where JR Reynolds ended up? Can't find him on any summer roster.

Can't wait for the summer games!!

Posted by: Darnell | July 7, 2007 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Terrible news.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 7, 2007 4:01 PM | Report abuse

interesting.....

well if the coaches settle down I'm looking fwd to this squad. No matter what the exact makeup is we will have an exciting team on our hands. We should be thankful for that.

Going forward, I do wonder what place jCN would have on this team. No matter what, it will be interesting. I keep dreaming about the year that our draft will make a positive impact on the team. Could this be the promised land?

-g

Posted by: greg | July 7, 2007 4:07 PM | Report abuse

I want to hear EG's take on TT leaving, not EJ's who probably scared him off. Nonetheless how are you going to bolt after 4 days?

Posted by: dd0 | July 7, 2007 4:14 PM | Report abuse

OK Ivan what exactly is going on with the internal politics. first la Sooze (no great loss) and now this. something's rotten in denmark, time to investigate.


Abe needs to give both EG and EJ a public smackdown. they've both gotten too big for their britches.

Posted by: Dr. Know | July 7, 2007 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Ivan for the updates--great to hear some news on McGuire too.

As far as Thibodeau goes, my guess is that Tommy T drew up some schemes yesterday, Eddie said "what are those?" Tommy T said "uh, our new defensive scheme." Eddie said "defense, who do you think we are Detroit?"

Tommy T: "Well, I just, Ernie told me."

Eddie: "Ernie told you what?"

Tommy T: "That defense was . . ."

Eddie: "Defense was what?"

Tommy T: "A priority."

Eddie: "A priority? Haven't you heard, we're the Phoenix of the East. We don't have time for defense. Princeton O rules!"

At that point Tommy T says, "Oh." He then packs up his bags, cancels the meeting with the local real estate agent, and gets in a taxi headed to Dulles.

Just a guess of course.

Posted by: JPT | July 7, 2007 4:17 PM | Report abuse

there's got to be more to this, maybe a trip to houston or a phone call to the thibodeau house is in order for our great WP beat writer. glad to hear our rookies look comfortable and not nervous out there.

Posted by: Brian | July 7, 2007 4:36 PM | Report abuse

I know that Eddie tried to have some semblance of a defensive mindset on this team this past year. Then Gilbert complains how the focus on defense hurts his offensive output. Are you kidding me? All that was asked for was a better effort. I have noticed that both Gilbert and Caron have a tendency to be risk takers in the passing lanes which leaves them open to exploitation as the other team drives for an easy hoop or a foul. Just one example among many problem areas on this team (on the defensive side). I am sure that Thibodeau would have helped to emphasize sound defensive fundamentals which the team would have benefitted from. It looks like the core of this roster is likely to stay as it is. As for current developments, nobody wants to touch Etan's contract. Ernie is not going to just trade Haywood for nothing to appease Eddie. Screw the Posey trade proposal. If we can't get a legitimate frontline player in return, keep Juan Carlos Navarro. I have heard the Wiz might get a lottery-protected first-rounder which is still better than what Posey could provide. I am pleased to hear the update on Dominic McGuire. This guy has legitimate first-round talent. The reason he dropped is because he is a tweener. Teams don't know whether to put him at the 3 or the 4. If he could develop his shot, this guy could be a steal. I am hoping that Pecherov, Young, and McGuire are focused on making the adjustment to the NBA and improving their game so they can give a boost to the bench. All in all, I am optimistic that this team can threaten to get out of the clowded East and achieve a Finals berth. Now that would be something special.

Posted by: Nasir | July 7, 2007 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Guess I don't need to spend anymore time trying to remember how to spell Coach Tom's last name. Maybe Coach Jordan's approach to having a new guy on board was the best defense was a good offense.
I wonder if Thibodeau will have anything to say publicly about his leaving? I'm sure we're going to hear all kinds of rumors in the coming weeks.
An interesting offseason just got another twist, I have the feeling Ernie will earn every cent of his salary this summer.
First order of business is to see if he can sign Stevenson to a reasonable deal that leaves room for Blathce and Navarro. If he can't like Jeffries and Hughes Ernie will let him walk. With Young on board and Navarro in the wings grunfeld won't break the bank for Stevenson.
Next move will be to see if Blatche really gets any big offers from other suitors or if it's just smoke from other contenders trying to talk up the price. But there's a difference in spreading rumors in the press and signing an offer sheet. In the end I think Blatche will be back at a price that we can afford.
Navarro's situation can wait until Grunfeld can put some other peices in place first, since we hold his draft rights Grunfeld can afford to take his time and see what he can put together to sign him. And if he's got to be traded it's going to be for more than Posey or Marshall.
Next week will be really interesting, we'll get our first look at Pecherov since last year along with Young and McGuire's Wizards debut. We have the makings of a deep team.
Just wonder who'll end up in charge?

Posted by: GM | July 7, 2007 4:40 PM | Report abuse

where can one find our summer league roster?

Posted by: tmac | July 7, 2007 4:42 PM | Report abuse

He probably realized that his was in the minor leagues of the Nuttin'Buttajoke League and went back home to find a real job.

Posted by: NOMOPRO | July 7, 2007 5:22 PM | Report abuse

http://www.nba.com/wizards/news/SL07_roster_070703.html


Tues Kings CSN 8pm(td)
Wed Pistons CSN 7pm (td)
Fri Rockets CSN 10pm(live)
Sat Cavs CSN 11pm (td)
Sun Bucks CSN 7pm(td)

Posted by: dc | July 7, 2007 5:22 PM | Report abuse

thanks for the roster

best case is miles and visser stick with the team. other than them and our draftees, it a pretty putrid roster

Posted by: tmac | July 7, 2007 6:05 PM | Report abuse

I've seen behavior like this from players and head coaches--but never from assistant coaches, if this is all true as reported. And it's really rare in the NBA to have two Prima Donovan-like situations like this in a single season, much less a pre-season. It's terminally unprofessional conduct, and definitely could end Thibodeau's chances of ever being an NBA head coach, if that is his true ambition--and not just coaching Rice or Houston State or a local high school or something.

There are lots of unanswered questions here. Hasn't he signed a contract? If so, doesn't he 'belong' to the Wizards until they release him from it? Doesn't that mean that any team attempting to hire him even as a scout or 'consultant' has to give the Wizards compensation? Might that compensation take the form of a trade for Etan for 'considerations'? After all, Houston has been mentioned as one of the teams he might go to. And if that happens in a month or two, what does that say about the good faith of the whole fiasco?

Why was his entire interaction only with Jordan? Why did Jordan announce his departure and not Grunfeld? Did Jordan 'run him out of town'? If so, isn't that a fireable offense? Nobody quits a job without giving a reason, usually at least in an email--so why is a lid being kept on this latest piece of Wizards melodrama?

When will this team's management start behaving with at least minimal competence and responsiveness to its public? It might be a first small step toward attracting and keeping enough talent to get past first rounds.

Posted by: KTV | July 7, 2007 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Great post JPT!!!

Posey or some other veteran,a known quantity in return for JCN or a sign&trade with Blatch wouldn't be all that bad. Still not the answer, but not that bad.

We need to stop worrying about losing AB. Although he's exciting, he needs more years to develop and he certainly doesn't deserve a payday now. He consistently created mayhem on the court - some good, some bad.

God help us if our second team is AB (mr. mayhem), JCN (bombs away!!), Young (well...young), OPEC (I dunno) or Dsong (passive), and AD (sobbing about babysitting amateur hour).

That doesn't seem like a deep bench to me. The Big 3 still have to carry this team and they won't tire themselves out with defense. Let's go get Gasol!!!

Posted by: Cballer | July 7, 2007 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Ivan, what is going on with Andray? Is he any closer to signing a deal. I truly hope they don't let him go. I just keep hearing that the they are working on signing him but no cigar. Makes me nervous as to whether or not he is considering moving on. Any news on that front would be appreciated.

Posted by: WizFANatic | July 7, 2007 6:41 PM | Report abuse

All of this stuff is inevitable... First let me say that the ribbing and criticisms received by Eddie Jordan on this blog is certainly not earned. He had bad defensive players who thought it was to much to stay in front of their men. Folks on this blog still think Larry Hughs is a good defensive play...NOT! DeShawn S. is a good defensive player, not great.

Now, we should expect friction with the coaches when the GM forces an assistant coach on the head coach. And for what, because we have a bunch of players who do want to play defense. Something needs to be done, perhaps; bringing in a defensive coach is the answer, but that would have to be dealt with delicately and I am not sure it was at all. Waiting until the last minute to give the assistants a one year contract. The GM does not need to send a message. What about talking to men like men. They know the Wiz were ranked 28th last year! The idea that Eddie did now and does not focus on defense is simply wrong.

Further, BH is a team killer. Whether you like Jordan or not, BH was right in there destroying the team from the inside. The only reason you want him is because his contract is better than Etan's. In this blog discussion you would believe that Haywood is stellar defensively, he is not. He is seldom where he is supposed to be and cannot defend the pick and roll. Are you folks kidding?!? No one in the NBM really wants BH...no heart!

Posted by: Skeef | July 7, 2007 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Le Bullet for life. Born & Raised in DC, and have been aboard for 12 years, and I must say I've never been more excited about
Bullets basketball! We are finally getting it. The NBA changed drastically from the 70's and we (Abe & Wes Sr.) we're in a time warp. There is a new air (EJ & EG), that WIN! Now it's just a matter of convincing the world.

Part of life is the general populations understanding that this belongs here and this goes there. The "Wizards" have been reeducating the world of where they belong and that is why we are able to make the deals and get great athletes to play here.

I'll be adding a column to WorldwideUnderGround.com later to go more in-depth for now enjoy the art & music.

Posted by: WorldwideUnderGround.com | July 7, 2007 8:41 PM | Report abuse

He left without even speaking to Grunfeld? Yikes. My guesses:
1. EJ ordered Wes Jr. and O'Koren to give him a Code Blue in the locker room.
2. Thibodeau watched some game film from last season.

Seriously, though, only three possibilities come to mind:
1. He has some non-basketball related issue he needs to attend to (family's health, etc.). If that's the case, though, I don't think Jordan says, "He decided to go in another direction" and I don't think he leaves without speaking to Ernie.
2. He got a better offer somewhere else.
3. He didn't like what he was seeing or hearing. Maybe he just didn't like being Ernie's guy on Jordan's staff, and felt that was already causing friction. Maybe there was already conflict between him and EJ. Man, I sure would like to know.

Posted by: Joe | July 7, 2007 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Thibodeau finally met the clown coaching staff of the Wizards. First Eddie Jordan and his incompetence, followed by the absolute JOKE assistant coaches, specifically Wes Unseld Jr., must have immediately gotten to his head.

Good for Thibodeau, let him keep his sanity.

Posted by: AV | July 7, 2007 8:58 PM | Report abuse

Ivan:
You need to follow up and ask Eddie what "came to some agreements" means.

"He was here for four or five days, we came to some agreements and then we had a meeting with him this morning."

Posted by: Joe | July 7, 2007 9:16 PM | Report abuse

Yo Ivan. Thanks for the great updates (i.e. story on 2nd round pick). Still looking for a story on EG and EJ and EJ and Haywood and WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON WITH AB???? I am starting to get very nervous................

Posted by: mikie | July 7, 2007 9:16 PM | Report abuse

Ivan or Mike please find out for us what's going on in the wizards front office. Coach Tom just mysteriously disappearing is quite fishy

Posted by: Dante | July 7, 2007 10:00 PM | Report abuse

WTH? We finally got a good defensive assistant coach to show EJ how to coach for the playoff run and EJ had to run him off b/c it would make him look bad??!! What a bummer. With our offense, a good defense would make us one of the biggest threats. Gee thanks EJ - NOT!

Posted by: Anonymous | July 7, 2007 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Starting to think the EJ vs. EG thing has the makings of the second coming of Sheriff Lee Baca vs. Judge Michael T. Sauer.

Posted by: Thor | July 7, 2007 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Skeef you obviously weren't around last season when both Pollin and EG wanted EJ to bring in a good defensive assistant. They gave him some leeway and he chose Berry and whoop de doo, the defense got an inch better (if that...) So I'm sure the low key, being delicate and trusting EJ to do his thing for defense didn't work out last season, it was time for a more drastic approach.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 7, 2007 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Ivan. I agree with the rest of these cats on the board, something's rotten in the state of Denmark.

"There is a smoothness to Young's overall game that reminds of someone but I can't quite put a finger on who it is yet."

Let me try to jog your memory. Alex English? Jamaal Wilkes? George "Iceman" Gervin? Adrian Dantley? Reggie Miller? Sidney Moncrief? Rick Mahorn? (OK, just kidding on Mahorn.) Or Kevin Martin from the Kings, who dropped 40 on us out in Sactown last season?

Let us know when you find out!

Posted by: iceberg | July 7, 2007 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Marco Belinelli dropped 37 this afternoon on the Hornets.

Posted by: dc | July 7, 2007 11:17 PM | Report abuse

""Let me try to jog your memory. Alex English? Jamaal Wilkes? George "Iceman" Gervin? Adrian Dantley? Reggie Miller? Sidney Moncrief? Rick Mahorn? (OK, just kidding on Mahorn.) Or Kevin Martin from the Kings, who dropped 40 on us out in Sactown last season?""


Nah I was thinking more like Walter Davis from the Suns. He was 6'6" as well and pretty damn smooth.

Posted by: dc | July 7, 2007 11:22 PM | Report abuse

Charles Jones?

Posted by: Anonymous | July 7, 2007 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Easy to surmise that TT probably left b/c he didn't feel a part of EJ's team. TT was handpicked by EG and placed into an uncomfortable situation, especially since the assistants got only 1 year extensions and he probably felt like an outsider. They probably thought of TT as the mole. The more you look at it, the more you see EG wishing he had his handpicked guy coaching the team instead of EJ.

Ivan, is the guy you are thinking about Lawrence Moten?

I'm excited to see Humphrey on the summer league team. He's a legit 3 point threat and can help with the 1 guard duties. I just don't see a spot for him on this team that's overloaded, unless EG decides not to retain any of the GWU alums.

McGuire sounds like an interesting pick. I think he's probably going to be better suited as a small forward do all guy rather than someone who's going to be manning the post with his D. Although he has long arms, it doesn't mean a thing if you can get easily bounced off the blocks by bigger and thicker players. He'll probably be a Boris Diaw or Bo Outlaw type of guy.

Posted by: DC Man88 | July 7, 2007 11:36 PM | Report abuse

Good point DC mann....do we really need mike hall? i don't think so. we would be much better off with a 3 point ace like humphrey than mike hall, who will never see the court.

Posted by: tmac | July 8, 2007 12:06 AM | Report abuse

The way Humphrey was raining down 3's when he was with Florida was scary. I think if they keep Humphrey, that'll open things up for Gilby on the inside when he drives because teams would have to worry about someone dropping bombs from outside as a bailout option.

Name a championshop team that didn't have a "token" white guy who could do this? Kerr, Paxson, Kapono, etc. Even with the Spurs, their stars were legit 3 point threats: Ginobli & Parker. How many times have Les BouleS been killed by the token white guy? Jeff Foster and Pat Garrity come to mind. Speaking of which, where the heck is Gerry Mac from Syracuse?

Posted by: DC Man88 | July 8, 2007 12:18 AM | Report abuse

DC Man88 I am surprised you didn't mention Bostjan Nachbar or that #@$#$@#$#@ Kyle Korver. Then again the list is rather long. It is always a lot of fun when schmucks like that drop the hammer on you.
I think some of you on the blog are correct that something weird has happened here, but if Eddie Jordan really tried to make Thibodeau feel like an outsider and in some way chase him out, I think Grunfeld would fire him and I think Abe Pollin would stand behind him.
Lets face it, Grunfeld has Pollin's trust completely, he wouldn't be team president and GM otherwise. I even think Grunfeld might have such sway, he could to convince Pollin to pay the luxury tax (probably a pipe dream I know).

Posted by: George Templeton | July 8, 2007 12:29 AM | Report abuse

just read we increased our offer to deshawn to 15 mil over 4 years. i really hope we don't pay him any more than that. the guy is a decent defensive player (by no means a shut-down guy), and a below average offensive player. yeah he shot 40% from 3 this past year, but the year before that he didn't even hit 15%. he's streaky at best in that department.

the last thing we want is another etan mistake. overpaying someone just because he's here....

Posted by: JC | July 8, 2007 1:01 AM | Report abuse

"Name a championshop team that didn't have a "token" white guy who could do this? Kerr, Paxson, Kapono, etc. Even with the Spurs, their stars were legit 3 point threats: Ginobli & Parker."

(A) Tony Parker is not a good 3pt shooter (not generally, although he did shoot it well in this year's Finals) (B) Tony Parker is black.

Interesting news about Thibodeau. My guess is he didn't realize he was probably hired by Grunfeld against Jordan's wishes. When he saw the inevitable power struggle in the offing between EJ and EG, Thibodeau decided he didn't want to be caught in the middle.

Posted by: kalorama | July 8, 2007 1:18 AM | Report abuse

$15 mill over 4 years is more than DeShawn is worth. Apparently he didn't learn his lesson about overestimating his market value when he was with the Magic. He had a nice season playing off Gilbert, Caron, and Antawn and he should be rewared for it. but he should be rewarded for what he is: a complementary, teammated-dependent offensive player who wouldn't be a preferred option on any other team.

Posted by: kalorama | July 8, 2007 1:23 AM | Report abuse

I say let DeShawn walk and use the $15 mil to sign Navarro. The we'll have our own white guy who can shoot the 3... :)

Posted by: PK1 | July 8, 2007 1:40 AM | Report abuse

I absolutely despise Eddie Jordan for chasing out a guy who might have remedied one of his glaring weaknesses: the ability to coach defense. Maybe it was EJ's huge ego that didn't let him live with the presence of Thibodeau, whatever it doesn't matter, if Eddie ain't fired real soon it's another failed season!!!

Posted by: DC | July 8, 2007 1:59 AM | Report abuse

Belinelli dropped 37 in his summerleague debut.

Posted by: Darnell | July 8, 2007 2:46 AM | Report abuse

Even though Ivan reported this morning that Thibodeau had offers from other teams, it doesn't seem that's why he left. EJ said, "He was here for four or five days, we came to some agreements and then we had a meeting with him this morning," and he decided to leave. EJ expressly connected the "some agreements" to Thibodeau's decision to leave.

Unlike other posters, I think it's unfair to jump to the conclusion that EJ purposely ran this guy off. But it may not be true that he tried his best to make him comfortable either. It sounds like after those "agreements," Thibodeau just wasn't happy with the situation. That's EJ's fault, Ernie's fault, the entire organization's fault, and perhaps reveals a real mess behind the red velvet drapes.

Hope to read the real story very soon, Ivan!

Posted by: Sean | July 8, 2007 8:12 AM | Report abuse

One more point: Eddie's comment that he is thrilled with McGuire and "I'm treating our scouts to a milkshake." First, very Wally Cleaver of Eddie to treat people to a milkshake. Second, notice that he didn't say, "I'm treating Ernie and our scouts to a milkshake"? Wasn't Ernie the guy who picked him?

Posted by: Sean | July 8, 2007 8:15 AM | Report abuse

I agree, I don't think we should offer Stevenson anymore money than the current offer of 15mil over 4 years. We still have Blatche to sign and possibly may be able to retain JC. As I said before, Stevenson had better get real or he is going to find himself a##$! out once more. I think that should be the final offer for Stevenson. If he doesn't like it, let him walk. He is a good player but he hurt himself with the low offensisve production he exhibited in the playoffs when we needed him.

As for the situation with TT, we are not sure what has occured there and aren't we being a little hard by placing the blame on EJ? Who really don't know why the guy decided not to sign. Maybe he thought twice about moving to DC for a two year contract.

Posted by: WizFANatic | July 8, 2007 8:36 AM | Report abuse

I agree with Sean..it's ridiculous to speculate that Eddie ran Thibodeau off....and to say he "did not feel comfortable" after only 4 days? How many of us feel comfortable after 4 days on the job? Remember the first days of a new job, anyone? You are the outsider.

I'm thinking he has the possibility of a better coaching position elswhere....

Posted by: Lisa | July 8, 2007 8:49 AM | Report abuse

...One of the candidates for the position, according to a team source, is former Timberwolves coach Dwane Casey.
(from WT)

Posted by: piratelout | July 8, 2007 9:03 AM | Report abuse

I can't wait until Tuesday to see the 3 draft picks, esp Nick Young. Gerry Mac is on the Sixers summer squad.

Posted by: CurtisLee | July 8, 2007 9:09 AM | Report abuse

JPT, exactly what I thought had happened.

EJ probably reminded Tommy T that he is still the head coach, when and how the team plays any defense is still his call!

I was hoping to see how Tommy T coaches the defense in the summer league. Instead, now I am waiting to see the next chapter between the tussle of EG and EJ!

Posted by: sagaliba | July 8, 2007 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Did anyone take notice of what Bellini did in summer league for Golden State ? Experienced PROVEN foreign players usually do ok in the NBA. JCN is proven and we would be stupid to just get rid of him to dump a contract. We need to sign him and keep him if nothing better comes along.

Posted by: Mark | July 8, 2007 10:14 AM | Report abuse

The only comment I really have is this summer is already having bad vibes and the season hasn't even started. :(

One thing I remember about Van Gundy is a few years back(right after the MJ thing)he turned his nose at the Wiz and then went to Houston where he was promptly fired. Personally as a fan I've never forgiven him for that(shmuck!). Thibodeau was/is an assistant on that staff, so reading this I'm really not surprised.

Other stuff...

Stevenson is asking for way too much money. If it were me, I would offer Navarro that 3 mil per and go with it. Stevenson has capped out on how far he can go on the court. 11.2 points a game does not justify 6 mil per season in this offense. You can't sign Navarro, you can't sign Stevenson (for about the same money), then you let the rookie Young start. Stevenson is a very average NBA player and will never be anything more. Why pay him so much? I just don't understand that.

Jordan and his staff are already on the hot seat. Nothing much more to say here, they lose they get fired. I think we all know that.

Depends on how much pressure all of these cats can take. I sure hope they can take a lot because I want them to win. But right now it sure looks like the "curse" lives.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | July 8, 2007 10:20 AM | Report abuse

What does Coach Thibodeau Know about the Wizards?

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 10:39 AM | Report abuse

"(A) Tony Parker is not a good 3pt shooter (not generally, although he did shoot it well in this year's Finals) (B) Tony Parker is black."

Tony Parker is most likely a mixed guy, part black, part something else, most likely white. His mother is Dutch. Same with Tiger. Many people call him a black man, but he never called himself black or openly embraced the black community.

BTW, I don't think EJ ran TT out of town. I just think TT came into town and saw what was going on and decided he didn't like the vibe. Keep in mind that EG hired him, and probably interviewed him. EJ may not have had any involvement in his hire. You don't have to be run out of town. You just get vibes from the people you're working with that you're not wanted there. It would have been an uphill battle.

You have EJ who always dismissed the fact that a defensive coach is needed, and then you have the players who think a good defense is really a good offense. Paul ball.

EG should focus on signing JCN and Blatche first. Whatever $$$ left should go to DS. Players like DS are a dime a dozen, and it's not like he has some sort of championship pedigree since he's right out of high school. If we want to keep Blatche, we should stay as flexible as possible. No one knows how much $$$ Cuban is going to throw at AB.

DS' biggest mistake is that just b/c he's in DC, he thinks Abe is Danny Snyder. He ain't gonna get paid bank here, especially since he did nothing when the big 2 were out during the playoffs.

Posted by: DC Man88 | July 8, 2007 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Skeef,

There is a difference between "talk" defense and "coach" defense. You and I can "talk" about defense, but only few can really "coach" defense.

"Coach" involves drawing up schemes, drilling the players in practice and motivating them to perform in games.

EJ "talked" about the importance of the defense to the media, gave defense a lip service every year, but he has nothing to show for year after year.

Worse, blame it all on players is a big copout!

EJ was a big steal guy in his playing days, but he was not a good lock-down defender. Wizards players, Larry Hughes, Arenas, Butler all have good steal stats playing for EJ. Larry Hughes, once led NBA in steal, his steals dropped when he left Wizards, coincident? No, Wizards players are playing EJ's style.

NBA coaches have commented that Wizards play "gimmick" defense, aim to confuse other teams, and get steals. But this kind of defense leaves holes, and gives up more easy points than it generates. How many times do we see Wizards big man has to leave his man and cover for the opponent's penetrating guard? This not only gives opponent easy shot, it also draws big guy away from the basket and giving up offensive rebounds as well.

You don't "coach" defense through media, you coach it on the court!

Posted by: sagaliba | July 8, 2007 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Just a note, the times reported that TT talked with EG on Friday night, and then let EJ know Saturday before the Summer League practice.

Posted by: greg | July 8, 2007 11:05 AM | Report abuse

I'd say that 4 yr 15m is about the Wiz's max. offer to Stevenson. At 3 to 4m per yr he's a useful player to us, at 6m we can spend the money better else where. Stevenson will also have to realize the offer won't sit there for long, Grunfeld has a plan of action and if it doesn't work out with Stevenson he'll move on. I don't think the Stevenson negotiations will last much past July 11th.
Don't get too worried about the pace of things with Blatche, with restricted FA's their agents always want to see if they get some sniffs from other teams before the commit to signing with the club that holds their rights.
Remember, Blatche could go the route of taking the qualifying offer and opt for full free agency next year. The restricted FA period allows his agent to talk to other teams and gauge interest without anyone worrying about tampering. The Wizards will most likely be angling to tie him up for more years, and his agent will either be thinking of going the FA route next year or signing a shorter deal to allow him to test the market again.
With Charlotte trading for Richardson and commiting money to signing their own FA's, there's just not alot of teams out there that can offer a hugh deal for Blatche. Memphis is one that possibly could, if they do I'd think it might indicate a willingness on their part to get engaged in a sign and trade.
I'd really be surprised if Cleveland or Dallas can make any kind of offer to Blatche that we can't match. Ferry's out of his mind if he think's he can entice us into taking the killer years of Hughes' deal off his hands in some kind of sign and trade involving Blatche. He's got to have the cap dollars free to make an offer that we'd have to match first, and he or Cuban don't have the space to do it.
As long as we make a qualifying offer to Navarro his agent's going to have to wait a little for Ernie to clear up these other player's salaries first. Depending on what happens with Blatche and Stevenson and on the trade front we could still put together the money to sign Navarro. His agent may only want a short term deal to allow him to come here and prove his worth and them go for the big bucks before he's 30.
I don't know that any team will be willing to offer him a monster deal at this point until he actually makes the transition. I'd say that his agent and Grunfeld have some kind of an understanding since he's went to the trouble to negotiate his freedom from his Euro deal. Since Ernie was over there a couple of times this winter I can't imagine this took him by surprise. And I haven't heard one thing from the Wizards indicating they are trying to trade his rights, only that they've been getting calls about him.
It's going to be real intersting to see how Grunfeld spins this coaching situation. And I'll be real interested to see if Thiboduau resufaces somewhere else. I'd assume there will be another defensive assistant hired, what will be interesting is to see if he's an "Ernie" guy or an "Eddie" guy. They should split the difference and find a good defensive coach that neither has worked with.
I'd love to see a veteran guy that has a rep as a teacher and developing young players come on board. I don't know if he'd have any interest in being an assistant coach, but a guy like Bernie Bickerstaff comes to my mind because of his ties to the organization and MJ's showing him the carpet. But there are other solid NBA vets out there that have reps for teaching defense and growing young guys to be pros. That's the biggest weakness I see in Eddie, I'm just not sure that he feels secure enough to have a former head coach on his staff like Johnson does in Dallas. If he wants to win a title he has to grow enough as a head coach to not be threatened by a solid veteran NBA coach on his bench to make his staff stronger. But that's just my opinion..

Posted by: GM | July 8, 2007 11:46 AM | Report abuse

"$15 mill over 4 years is more than DeShawn is worth. Apparently he didn't learn his lesson about overestimating his market value when he was with the Magic. He had a nice season playing off Gilbert, Caron, and Antawn and he should be rewared for it. but he should be rewarded for what he is: a complementary, teammated-dependent offensive player who wouldn't be a preferred option on any other team". Kalarama

Kalarama - I agree with you 110% on this one. Once again I am very nervous. As DCMan88 said earlier, 2 guards are a "dime a dozen". We have Young here, and Navarro looks like he can be had for a contract that is less then this new one they are offering Stevenson.

This is very clear Ernie is trying to keep Gilbert "happy" when it comes to him opting out next season. No way is Stevenson worth that contract for 15 million. He is a $2.0 or $2.5 million dollar a year guard at best.

He is "pricing himself" way to high again like he did last year with the Magic. Stevenson is not a "shut down" in "your chest" defender like Mike James or Linsey Hunter. His jumper is below average and he does not "finish" at the rack strong.

Stevenson better send Gilbert a thank you card and take him to dinner because that is the only way he is getting this 15 million dollar contract. That playoff series "sealed his fate" as far as I am concerned.

If he had averaged around 20 points in that series and was starting to command double teams, then I would have been cool with the 15 million dollar offer. But we all saw how he "melted" under the pressure to make shots.

Lastly, if EG is offering this crazy contract to Stevenson, that is pointing out to me he does not plan on keeping Navarro. You can not have Stevenson, Young and Navarro at the 2 next year. Somebody is not going to play. And the way Eddie treats young guys, it would probably be Young as the odd man out; and once again I will be "ticked" with Eddie on a new issue.

I do not want that happening and neither does Ernie. That is why I think EG is going to trade Navarro along with the condition somebody takes on Etan's contract to get him.

I think Ernie is going to see how Young performs in the Summer League games and then he will make his decision.

Posted by: mikie | July 8, 2007 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Ivan - I was the one who asked that question about AB playing in the summer league. However, it is not that easy to answer as you noted above because in one of your articles last week you said AB was not playing in the summer league this year "EVEN IF HE SIGNED A CONTRACT IN TIME".

To me, that sounds a little odd that he would not be playing, even if he had his contract. As I noted before he looked pretty pissed off, like Haywood, when he was seeing no minutes in the playoffs. I hope he is not "souring" on EJ and his "crazy" rotations (like the rest of us).

Remember, AB has seen Haywood work his butt off all last summer, before and after practice and even being the bigger man and coming to EJ in the summer to bury the hatchet and ask EJ what he needed as a man and player for him to get some major minutes. Haywood did everything EJ asked of him, or at least tried (i.e. rebounds) and even when Haywood came off of the court, EJ would "met" him and smack him on the back and say "good job".

Fast forward two months, then Etan came back from the injury list, and may we say the rest was history. Well after Etan came back; you, me and AB starting seeing subtle little "jabs" by EJ towards Haywood. It started with DNP's in the 4th quarter (even when Haywood was on a roll)and verbal jabs in the media questioning BH's toughness in an indirect way.

Something to remember, BH and AB are "boys" and the young fella might not like the way he sees or saw BH being treated by EJ with the minutes and everything else. Because guess what, AB started noticing he was being done the same way with minutes in a sense.

With this said, I still want EJ here as coach; but he really needs to work this thing out with Haywood and really work on his substituion patterns. With the bench EG has prepared for him now, there is no excuse for him not to be "outcoached" anymore in the 4th quarter.

*** Big note. This formula will only work if Etan and Jarvis are no longer on the team. These two are EJ's favorites and he does not make the right "business" decisons when he has them as options.......

Posted by: mikie | July 6, 2007 12:51 PM

Ivan. You never got back with me on my question about AB not playing in the summer league. You said it was simple because he did not have a contract, however AB was quoted as saying even if he had a contract he would not be playing.

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH AB'S CONTRACT SITUATION???? WE ARE HEARING ABOUT STEVESON'S BUT NO AB. COME ON IVAN, GIVE US SOMETHING SAYING THE KID IS HAPPY HERE AND WHAT I SAID ABOVE IS NOT TRUE.....

Posted by: mikie | July 8, 2007 11:54 AM | Report abuse

It's fair to say that none of us knows exactly what happened with the Thibodeau situation, but the facts we have so far certainly imply that Eddie could have done more to make the guy feel comfortable. A strong head coach should feel secure enough in his abilities not to be threatened by an assistant, and as a team player should welcome the new hire with genuine courtesy. It just doesn't look like Eddie is that type of person.

Posted by: DC | July 8, 2007 11:57 AM | Report abuse

GM just nitpicking grammar but why do you always spell HUGE like you "Hugh" Hefner's HUGE dingdong?

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Um, if DS2 had averaged 20 points in the playoffs he'd be getting a hell of a lot more than 15 mill.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 12:18 PM | Report abuse

DCMAN88- DO NOT RESPOND TO HIM OR ACKNOWLEDGE HIM HE USES INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE ON THIS FORUM


Darnell, not saying Bellinelli won't be good or that he's not talented cause he is. But everyone knows he's a very streaky shooter playing on a GS Summer League team. This type of setting fits perfectly for talented gunners. Besides, didn't they also say Keith Bogans had 38 points for Orlando in 2004? KEITH BOGANS?! Anyways, we'll see how Bellinelli and other draftees do in the coming season(s).


DCMAN88- DO NOT RESPOND TO HIM OR ACKNOWLEDGE HIM HE USES INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE ON THIS FORUM

Posted by: Wizzin' By Ya | July 8, 2007 12:19 PM | Report abuse

"Tony Parker is most likely a mixed guy, part black, part something else, most likely white. His mother is Dutch. Same with Tiger. Many people call him a black man, but he never called himself black or openly embraced the black community."

As I reacll, there's no induction ceremony required (if there is, I must have missed mine). And if having a white mother (which you clearly don't know that he has) doesn't make Parker "black enough" to be called Black, then by the same "logic" wouldn't having a Black father make him not "white enough" to be included in your utterly ridiculous list of "token white" players?

Posted by: kalorama | July 8, 2007 12:23 PM | Report abuse

then by DC Man's definition Noah is his token white boy too haha

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 12:36 PM | Report abuse

With Humprhey and Miles on the SL squad, I expect to see a battle between them and Mason and Taylor.

Posted by: C.Bell | July 8, 2007 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Not only is 15 million for Stevenson a tragedy, it also unfortunately signals that Navarro is probably not in EG's plan. Obviously, you don't make that offer to Stevenson knowing that in all likelihood it takes away the ability to sign Navarro.

I can only hope that DeScrub turns this offer down and the money in Wizard land dries up shortly thereafter. He'll be back on the street suiting up in Memphis or Atlanta for 1 million again.

Posted by: AV | July 8, 2007 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Why do we need beat reporters, clearly we know what the coach is and is not doing in his practice sessions. Your arrogance is amazing. You are right, the Wiz play gimmick because of their personnel's ability and willingness to play defense. Can anyone here argue that a good defensive coach will help A Jamison stop somebody? My point is that it is a two-way street. Do not let your uninformed opinions hang out there like fact. They are not facts.

Posted by: Skeef | July 8, 2007 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Why do we need beat reporters, clearly we know what the coach is and is not doing in his practice sessions. Your arrogance is amazing. You are right, the Wiz play gimmick because of their personnel's ability and willingness to play defense. Can anyone here argue that a good defensive coach will help A Jamison stop somebody? My point is that it is a two-way street. Do not let your uninformed opinions hang out there like fact. They are not facts.

Posted by: Skeef | July 8, 2007 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Why do we need beat reporters, clearly we know what the coach is and is not doing in his practice sessions. Your arrogance is amazing. You are right, the Wiz play gimmick because of their personnel's ability and willingness to play defense. Can anyone here argue that a good defensive coach will help A Jamison stop somebody? My point is that it is a two-way street. Do not let your uninformed opinions hang out there like fact. They are not facts.

Posted by: Skeef | July 8, 2007 1:34 PM | Report abuse

i do no understand that last post, what are you saying?

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Skeef,

What are you saying? Are you saying that Wizards players are so undisciplined that they do not follow EJ's defense scheme, or they are so bad in defense they are hopeless even with even the best defensive coach?

Even though there will always be better defensive players than others, a good defensive coach will have the TEAM play "better" defense. If Ernie does not think so, why do you think he would hire a defensive coach? You think I am the one who told Ernie to do so? BTW, Ernie did not do that simply because TT was available. If you did pay attention to the beat reporter, you would have known that Ernie has been wanting to do that since last season. So who is arrogant here?

Here are the facts, Hughes, Arenas and Butler all have better steal stats playing for EJ. It is obvious that they play defense differently in EJ's system than for other teams. But the result is also obvious; EJ's team struggled in defense year after year.

Where are your facts? And no, by posting the same stuff three times does not automatically make them facts.

Posted by: Sagaliba | July 8, 2007 3:31 PM | Report abuse

"(A) Tony Parker is not a good 3pt shooter (not generally, although he did shoot it well in this year's Finals) (B) Tony Parker is black."

"And if having a white mother (which you clearly don't know that he has) doesn't make Parker "black enough" to be called Black, then by the same "logic" wouldn't having a Black father make him not "white enough" to be included in your utterly ridiculous list of "token white" players?"

Tony Parker is clearly of mixed heritage, and even he admits it. His father is black man from Chicago who played pro basketball and his mother is a dutch model, Pamela Firestone.

To say it's utterly ridiculous for me to label him as a "white man" is just as utterly ridiculous as you saying "(b) Tony Parker is black.

Posted by: DC Man88 | July 8, 2007 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Isn't DeSagana Diop half white?

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 6:07 PM | Report abuse

go Wiz!!! Can't wait until the season begins - with Young and Olexy in tow, we should be a much-improved team. If only we could somehow manage to get Kirilenko to play the four and get rid of either Etan or Haywood (preferably the former)...

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 6:41 PM | Report abuse

I want to know what everyone thinks about this idea!

It seems crazy, but it really makes alot of sense. It is public knowledge that the Wizards are looking to deal Navarro, Etan, and Daniels. It is public knowledge that the Cavs are looking to deal Larry Hughes. It is public knowlege Cavs are interested in Navarro.

Wizards trade Etan, Daniels, rights to Navarro to Cleveland for Larry Hughes.

Deal works salary-wise.

Why for Cleveland? They get 3 for 1 in the deal, and fill needs. Hughes has not worked out. They need a backup to Ilgauskas, and Etan is a good backup and plays physical. They need a pg, Daniels is a solid vet who knows how to distribute, doesn't make mistakes, attacks the basket and can play D. Navarro gives them a combo guard off the bench who can score and shoot the 3, the best guard in europe.

Wizards get a player they never wanted to leave, knows the system and players, and can step right in, would be a very good 4th scorer and is good defensively. Eddie loves him, Haywood and Gil like playing with him, and he reportedly misses playing here.

Doesn't this deal make a ton of sense???

Hughes, Young and Gil would be a very good backcourt rotation. Hughes can also play point. You can go with Gil and Hughes, Gil and Young, or Hughes and Young.

Also we would no longer need Stevenson if we do this. We can let him walk, and keep our full MLE. Keep Mason and Taylor at the end of the bench, or maybe pickup someone from summerleague at the league minimum.

Here is our 10 man rotation:

Starter:
Haywood, Jamison, Butler, Hughes, Arenas

Key Bench:
Blatche, Pecherov, Songaila, McGuire, Young

Posted by: Darnell | July 8, 2007 7:10 PM | Report abuse

ummm, how about the fact that hughs is constantly hurt and has a horrible contract?

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 7:16 PM | Report abuse

Etan is constantly hurt, and he and Daniels both have horrible contracts. Those 2 alone make equal to Hughes. IMO the fact that Hughes would start makes him more valuable than 2 backups. And you gotta agree he's a huge upgrade over DeShawn.

He'd give us a true big 4, and we know he fits in chemistry wise. Plus losing Etan and Daniels in this scenario would open more pt for Blatche and Young.

We can still use the MLE to add depth at guard if you're concerned about Hughe's health. We could in fact still keep DeShawn.

Posted by: Darnell | July 8, 2007 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Ivan, I'd really like your opinion on it!

Etan, Daniels, Navarro

for

Hughes

Posted by: Darnell | July 8, 2007 7:30 PM | Report abuse

No to Hughes!!!!!!!!!!!! Hell to the No!! He is hurt all the time and his contract is too large. Why on earth would we bring him back when he was the one who chose to leave. Apparently he did not want to be here. He wanted to be in Cleveland so leave him there. I think we are going to do a lot better then people think with the line up we have, along with a couple of tweaks.

Good grief people, the season hasn't even started yet. GO WIZ!!!!! I can't wait to see what the young ones look like next week in Vegas. Now, let's get Blatche signed.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 7:39 PM | Report abuse

No to Hughes!!!!!!!!!!!! Hell to the No!! He is hurt all the time and his contract is too large. Why on earth would we bring him back when he was the one who chose to leave. Apparently he did not want to be here. He wanted to be in Cleveland so leave him there. I think we are going to do a lot better then people think with the line up we have, along with a couple of tweaks.

Good grief people, the season hasn't even started yet. GO WIZ!!!!! I can't wait to see what the young ones look like next week in Vegas. Now, let's get Blatche signed.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Here is response from a Cavs fan responding to the trade idea on realgm:

"First of all... Im a Cavs fan

I would accept that trade as quickly as possible and not look back. We'd have to make another trade of some sort because we would have too many players with Pavs and AV resigned, but thats a good deal for Hughes."

Posted by: Darnell | July 8, 2007 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Darnell, what kind of kool aid are you drinking? NO, NO, NO!

I loved Larry when he was here but he chose to leave and he's always hurt. No way should we make a trade with the flippin' Cavs...

Posted by: Lisa | July 8, 2007 7:53 PM | Report abuse

To the Cavs fan, no wonder you want to pan Hughes off on us. You know he was not all of that last season! I am tired of the Wiz allways letting our best players slip through our fingers. I pray that EG won't let that happen. NO trad PERIOD with Cleveland! WE DON'T WANT HUGHES BACK!! You guys wanted him, now you have him. I must admit, it must say a lot about the talent we do have since you are trying so hard to obtain some of our players. Go raid someone else's team.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 7:59 PM | Report abuse

If we are going to trade any of our guys, trade them to a team out west not a team in our conference. The Wiz just need to figure out what's what with the center position. Plug that hole and I think we will be fine. We did well last year until the injury bug hit. We had no scoring off the bench which killed us. So, plug up the middle because with "Young Hollywood" now playing, there is instant fire power. I think he will provide the spark that we so desperately needed last year like Juan did when he was here. Plus, we got McGuire playing with a chip and from what I hear, he is all of that and then some. So, I like our chances next year. Hey, I am an optimist, what can I say?

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 8:15 PM | Report abuse

I agree with the last few posts. NO to the Hughes trade!! I say let DeShawn walk and sign Navarro. Between him and Young we'll have instant offence off the bench. Yes, we'll still have defensive problems at the 2, but I don't think Hughes is really all that much better than DeShawn.

Posted by: PK1 | July 8, 2007 8:51 PM | Report abuse

Darnell didn't it concern you a little that the Cavs fan yes to that deal instantly? Shouldn't that tell you how bad an idea that is?

Posted by: George Templeton | July 8, 2007 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Gosh it really seems like we are on the verge of messing up a very good thing. This turnaround by Asst Coach Thibidou just looks bad. I mean really, really bad. When it happened I mentioned that I thought it was probably the best news in a summer of great Wizards news. And the turnaround may be even more significant when the real facts come out. I hope I am wrong. As some of us have noted something is going on behind the scenes and all the spin in the world can't hide it.

Here is my opinion: I get the sense that Ernie may want to get rid of Eddie but Abe Pollin has said to give him more time and tweak a few things. Pollin knows that canning Ernie would be very bad PR move. The team is exciting, tickets are selling, the public likes the coach, and more importantly Gilbert really likes the coach. Jordan's regime has given us the most success we have seen in decades and he deserves some of the credit. However Ernie G knows that keeping him we can only get a little deeper into the playoffs but with Coach Jordan's philosophy we CANNOT WIN IT ALL. We are merely a "poor man's Phoenix or Golden State" and these teams cannot get past the power teams like the Heat of last year or the Suns.

I just hope that Ernie G doesn't get frustrated and leave. That would be devastating.

I like everybody else am really looking forward to these summer games this week. Pech, MacGuire, Young...show us what you got!

Posted by: BmoreRev | July 8, 2007 9:06 PM | Report abuse

.:MUST READ:.

http://www.nba.com/news/424389.html

YES can we really get Etan off our backs!!! This Would Give Enough For Us To sign DeShawn and Navarro!!!

Posted by: Fulvio | July 8, 2007 9:57 PM | Report abuse

.:MUST READ:.

http://www.nba.com/news/424389.html

YES can we really get Etan off our backs!!! This Would Give Enough For Us To sign DeShawn and Navarro!!!

Posted by: Fulvio | July 8, 2007 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Although Les BouleS should have kept LH, as they promised to do everything they could to do it, I agree that once he left, he's history. I was bothered moreso that Les BouleS made the promise that Abe couldn't keep. The only way I would take him back is if he agreed to cut his salary, which he won't. I would glady take LH over DS.

Posted by: DC Man88 | July 8, 2007 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Ernie is the team president and GM, he ain't going anywhere. Any fulvio, since trades have to balance out some kind of way, where is the 76er piece of that deal. They get Etan, but give away no one. Do they have that kind of cap room or some sort of trade exception to do that? I also wonder if the Wizards want the kind of player who would lie about an injury like Radmanovic did (unless he only had one year left on his deal).

Posted by: George Templeton | July 8, 2007 10:13 PM | Report abuse

I think the only reason they promised to keep Larry is because they didn't it would cost $13 million per year to do it. Once they realized the price tag, that was it.

Posted by: George Templeton | July 8, 2007 10:21 PM | Report abuse

"To say it's utterly ridiculous for me to label him as a "white man" is just as utterly ridiculous as you saying "(b) Tony Parker is black."

I didn't say it was ridiculous to label him a white man. I said making a list of "token white players" was ridiculous.

As for whether Parker is white or Black: Rightly or wrongly, it's long been an established fact of American society that a person of mixed racial parentage is considered by and generally treated as Black, esp. when their appearance leans more toward Black than White (as Parker's does). Regardless of whether Tiger Woods has "embraced Black society" as you call it, he is considered to be Black by pretty much everyone (other than possibly himself).

Posted by: kalorama | July 8, 2007 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Back to bball:

Absolutely no way to Hughes. He's grossly overpaid and constantly injured when his team needs him the most. His never lived up to the promise of his raw physical ability, and now his body is breaking down.

Posted by: kalorama | July 8, 2007 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Fulvio, what kind of new math is that by David Aldridge? We lose AD (5.4 mil) and Etan (7.5 mil with trade kicker) and we get Radmonovich (5.4 mil)?

Posted by: DC Man88 | July 8, 2007 10:43 PM | Report abuse

About that supposed Etan to Philly deal:

Something seemed to be missing from that piece. Was it a three-way deal between the Wiz, Lakers, and Sixers? Or is it two separate deals between the Wiz/Sixers and Wiz/Lakers? Either way, it doesn't say what Philly is giving up and to whom. It also doesn't explaain what the hell the Wiz need with another jumpshooting, no defense playing *ahem* PF with a bloated contract.

Posted by: kalorama | July 8, 2007 10:45 PM | Report abuse

"I didn't say it was ridiculous to label him a white man. I said making a list of "token white players" was ridiculous."

I really only entertained your statement about Tony Parker as a follow along response. If you read my initial input, I didn't say Tony Parker was a token white player. Dude was MVP of the series and has been an all star, so by no means is he a "token player," nevermind a "token white player." Here's what I wrote as an aside to my "token white player" input.

"Even with the Spurs, their stars were legit 3 point threats: Ginobli & Parker."

Meaning, both their stars were legit threats and they didn't need 3 point specialists, nevermind token white ones.

If you want to admit to token white players or not, that's your choice. What are the facts is that the NBA is about 90%+ black while the % of blacks in the US is much, much lower, at roughly 13%. Many people here on this blog can think of a white guy who comes off the bench and just shoots 3's, namely Kerr, Kapono, Paxson, etc. Only black 3 point specialist that I know of is Craig Hodges, and he played a long time ago.

If you look at this list, it shows a huge representation of white folks, which statistically speaking, does not jive with the black representation in the league.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Point_Contest

Even Wilbon came out with a dumb editorial a few months ago speculating that white folks discourage their kids from playing basketball, unless they have some special 3 point ability.

I'm surprised people are not screaming to the EEOC for more nonblack representation in the league.

With regard to Tiger Woods, it's ridiculous for people who are not him to label him or claim him to be their own. Obviously from his physical appearance, he looks black, but if you know anything about thai heritage, many thais are dark also, and resemble him.

Look at the Jews. You can have a non-jew man marry a jewish woman and their offspring would be considered jews because the mom is jew. So are you going to tell their kids that they are not jewish if for example their father's surname is Soprano, O'Connell, Murphy, Giuliani, or Kennedy instead of Rubenstein, Snyder, Goldberg, Silverman, or Nussbaum?

Posted by: DC Man88 | July 8, 2007 11:07 PM | Report abuse

As Aldridge stated, it was HIS suggestion...not a rumored trade.

Posted by: Lisa | July 8, 2007 11:11 PM | Report abuse

George, would the same apply to Gilby? Granted any other team out there can only offer him a 5 year deal, but if that 5 year average breaks the bank or allows him to make more or equal money upfront in 5 years rather than 6 by Les BouleS, Les BouleS might let him go too, especially if there are clauses in those contracts that have trade kickers and no trade clauses.

Posted by: DC Man88 | July 8, 2007 11:11 PM | Report abuse

Why can't Caron play the 2 guard? Is he to slow to guard the position? I don't think so. That would open up more PT for all the forwards we have (AB, Pesh, Jamison, D-Mac, and Songalia).

That would then free us up to sign JCN. And, YES, that's a good thing.

1st team:gil, caron, AJ, Pesh, center #1
2nd tean:JCN,young, AB, Songalia, center #2
(throw in AD to stabalize and D-Mac to engergize)
I would LOVE this team!!!!

Posted by: TOM | July 8, 2007 11:31 PM | Report abuse

AD and Etan for Bosh

Posted by: Anonymous | July 8, 2007 11:32 PM | Report abuse

Fulvio,

Go Read the whole article. Aldridge must be off his rocker... i've pasted over the important parts. Basically we would give up etan, ad, and jcn for 3 mil in cap room to resign arenas.. wtf does he think ernie is this stupid???

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/columnists/20070708_On_the_NBA____Next_summer__Sixers_may_spring_into_action.html

The important part:
Here's why, and how: a three-way deal among the Sixers, Lakers and Wizards that could help everyone. (Please read this carefully: This is a suggestion from moi, not a rumor. Thank me later.)

Why not send Miller to Los Angeles, a team desperate for a point-guard upgrade, for Kwame Brown, entering the last year of his deal, a precious $9 million salary that could come off Philly's books next summer?

Washington would send center Etan Thomas, in whom the Sixers have had interest, to Philly, while sending guard Antonio Daniels to the Lakers. The Lakers would then send forward Vladmir Radmanovic, who endeared himself to Phil Jackson by hurting his shoulder in a snowboarding accident and then lying about it, to Washington.

To make the numbers work, the Sixers would send Steven Hunter, a much cheaper backup than Thomas, to the Wizards. And, most important, the Wizards would send back the draft rights to European guard Juan Carlos Navarro.

Navarro, 27, is one of the best guards in the world and wants to play in the NBA. It would take some creative negotiating to get him out of his Spanish contract, but creative teams - Toronto invented a buyout to import Anthony Parker last summer - get things done.

At the end of the day, the Lakers would solve their ballhandling problems, the Wizards would gain more immediate cap room for Arenas, and the Sixers would be a net $3.1 million ahead by exchanging Thomas' 2008-09 salary ($6.8 million), in essence, for Miller's $9.9 million. (Brown's and Miller's '07-08 salaries are a wash.) Hunter's $3.4 million for '08 would be off the books, too.

That's $6.5 million more that the Sixers would have in reserve next summer for that bumper crop of free agents than if they keep Miller another year.

And they would have the rights to Navarro.

Yes, they would still have to pay Thomas $7.3 million in 2009, but if we're still talking about rebuilding by then, it will be team president and head coach Larry Brown's problem.

Posted by: Dante | July 8, 2007 11:54 PM | Report abuse

by the way i lost all respect for Aldridge after reading that article... the dumbest idea ever... why would the wiz ever agree to that trade?

Posted by: Dante | July 9, 2007 12:53 AM | Report abuse

DCMan there is a max that Gilbert can make and since the Wizards can go over the cap to resign there is no scenario I know of where one team's five-year deal could be more $$ than the six-year deal the Wizards would offer.
The difference between this situation and Larry's is the fact that the Wizards know full well it will take the max or very near it to keep Gilbert.
It would seem to me that any player that is decent to really good player has a trade kicker, but those can be waived, so I don't know how much effect that has. As far as I know Kobe is the only player who has a full no-trade clause and I don't think Ernie would ever give Gilbert that.

Posted by: George Templeton | July 9, 2007 1:45 AM | Report abuse

they wouldn't. the media likes to use the wiz (along with some other teams) as a trade mechanism for teams with higher media exposure. it's almost all bs.

if philly really wanted etan thomas, they could offer us some combination of ollie and randolph and hunter.

or something like a sign and trade of jcn along with thomas for dalembert.

there's really no need for them to have to involve the lakers...

Posted by: JC | July 9, 2007 1:48 AM | Report abuse

Roger Phegley and Dave Corzine for Kevin Durant.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 2:46 AM | Report abuse

Ivan - Still looking for a status on AB.....???

What's going on with him and EJ? Again, why did he say even if he had his contract he would not play this year in the summer league?

Is it because they (Ernie and not Eddie) told him he was going to get some "major" minutes this year and therefore he did not have to play in the summer league?
Or is it something else? Come on Ivan give a something. Keep up the good work...

Posted by: mikie | July 9, 2007 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Ivan - Still looking for a status on AB.....???

What's going on with him and EJ? Again, why did he say even if he had his contract he would not play this year in the summer league?

Is it because they (Ernie and not Eddie) told him he was going to get some "major" minutes this year and therefore he did not have to play in the summer league?

Or is it something else? Come on Ivan give us something, mannnnnnn!! Keep up the good work...


Posted by: mikie | July 9, 2007 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Is there anyway we can convince EG to keep JCN and NOT keep DeScrub? Please? Ivan?

Posted by: AV | July 9, 2007 9:05 AM | Report abuse

AV - I think this is the "Gil Effect" with DeShawn. As I have said before, they are "boys" and EG has to walk a "fine line" right now until he gets Gilbert locked up to a long term contract next season. He does not want Gilbert getting to "ticked off" before the season starts.

Isn't it great to have friends "go to bat for you" (Gilbert and DeShawn)? I like DeShawn and his game when the "Big Three" are all playing, but you can not tell me he should be getting a 15 million dollar contract over 4 years.

I say we can save that money, let Young and Navarro fight it out for the starting spot and let the 2nd round pick or my man from GW be our 3rd option at the 2 guard spot.

The 2 guard is not that difficult to fill (dime a dozen). You can even slide Butler back there sometimes. Ernie should not increase that offer anymore. He should let the market bear the result.

You will not see another team out there offering DeShawn their whole MLE or 75 to 80% of it either. Either DeShawn signs for the 15 million or let him walk.

Gilbert will have to understand DeShawn and Larry asked for contracts that were way overpriced. He can't and should not hold that against the Wizards if they do not, or did not (i.e. Hughes) sign.

Posted by: mikie | July 9, 2007 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Everyone is assuming that Gil is responsible for the Wiz keeping Deshawn. I remember Gil saying that he does not get involved with what management does with the team. Someone asked him that question and he said that that was their job to bring in the talent and not his.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 9:47 AM | Report abuse

I also remember Gil saying he'd take less money to ensure he is surrounded by talent. Things change.

Posted by: Sam | July 9, 2007 10:23 AM | Report abuse

No one thinks Deshawn is worth anything, but the market determines the price. As of now we don't know of anyone else beating down his door. But in reality, 4 years and 15 million would be a steal.

Carroll is considered a sharpshooter, but he only shot a little better than Deshawn from 3 and doesn't register defensively. Carroll just got 27 million over 6. 4 for 15 is closer to what Rasul Butler and Fred Jones got for coming off the bench.

That kinda blows the "keeping Gil happy" angle out of the water.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 9, 2007 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Hey, Darnell. Not everyone things your proposed Hughes trade stinks. I think you always do pretty well when you get the best player in a trade, and the Wizards would do that. Hughes' pattern of injuries is a concern, though.

Posted by: Sean | July 9, 2007 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Hughes Suck! The Wiz organization would have to be crazy to take him back with his salary. Remember that is why they let him walk because they knew he wasn't worth that amount of money.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Mikie, Blatche's agent will wait to see what offer sheets come in after the 11th and then gauge the market while he's free to talk to teams. Then he'll advise Blatche if he should sign an offer sheet, negotiate a multi year deal with the Wizards, or sign a qualifying offer for one year that would allow him to test unristricted free agency next year.
I think Ernie will want things close to wrapped up with Stevenson by then so he can start to move on to Blatche and other contracts and trades. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a time limit with Stevenson and then he'll cut things off and go in another direction.
I can't see anyway Grunfeld takes the backloaded year's of Hughes deal when his history is filled with one injury after another. Some of the same people on here that don't want to give Stevenson 3-4m average over 4 yrs want to take back Larry's deal that goes up from 13m this yr, that doesn't make sense to me. Larry's not 3 or 4 times as productive as Stevenson. Let Cleveland choke on that deal, they already regret it, we don't need to bail them out.
Etan and Daniels for Radmanovic and Steven Hunter, well maybe, but I'm not sure it makes us better or help salarywise ... Us throwing in Navarro's rights, crazier than Hell!!!
Notice not one of these trade scenarios featuring Navarro's rights have come from the Wizards. I haven't read anything saying they're shopping him, only that they're getting calls. I'd still be really surprised if Navarro's not in a Wiz uniform this year. It's just going to take a little time for other things to get sorted out first.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Blatche get an offer sheet from Memphis, they are said to be targeting a couple of young frontline guys in FA and restricted FA. That would seem to mean Milicic, Outlaw(Portland restricted FA) and Blatche to me. Some thought that they may want to see if they can sign one or more young guys an offer sheet and then see if they can work out a sign and trade involving Gasol or some of their vets. I think they do have some guys(Swift, our old friend Chucky Atkins) in the final year of their deals.
Just something to watch for..

Posted by: GM | July 9, 2007 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Johnny Boy,

thanks from bringing some rational thought into this board. we are so quick to harp on the negatives with DS but he was more than serviceable for us during the season. SGs may indeed be a dime a dozen, but $4M is pretty close to the equivalent of a dime for a starter in the NBA. i think there's a threshold for what DS should make, and while i think we're close to it, we're not there yet. grunfeld clearly has a cap in terms of how far he's gonna go, and i'd be willing to bet it won't be far past the 4 yr, $16-18M level.

now, on to a couple of these trade scenarios....
1. etan, daniels, navarro for hughes....after thinking about this, on many levels i'm against this one...first, we're trading with the cavs? the CAVS!??! they've eliminated us two years in a row, so to get back at them, we're giving them A.) the point guard they so badly need, B.) a scoring guard, another need for an offensively strapped team, and C.) the opportunity to rid themselves of an approx. $12M/yr contract that they'd do anything to lose? we want to get out of etan's contract, which $6-7M/yr, but in doing that, it seems irresponsible to take on a contract that is much worse! on top of that, i just don't think it's a good idea to put all of our assets in a package that will bring back one player. ESPECIALLY if that one player is not a frontcourt guy. i just don't think we need to add another guard, and an oft-injured, overpaid, underachieving one at that. larry flourished in our system, but let's look at what's happ'd since he left. let's also look at this: who HASN'T flourished in our system (other than arvis "no J" hayes lol)? this offense is similar to the duke basketball program, in that everyone looks great in the system, but once those players leave, they are exposed as being not as good as they looked to be with duke. i think DS is more than suitable for our gameplan.
2. the aldridge-proposed trade...that one just seems like a bad idea. I'm not going to comment too much about it, but we get the crappy end of the deal, and even though he writes for the philly inquirer, he's a dc guy and i'm disappointed in his scenario.
i'll reserve more comment for the next post....

Posted by: RichBoy | July 9, 2007 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Great post RichBoy! I'm in total agreement with your statements. I think Deshawn is a good player also and fits into the system here well too. How soon we forget.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 12:00 PM | Report abuse

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/06/AR2007070601902.html

From today's Post:

Should the Wizards elect to sign Navarro, they can offer anything up to the midlevel exception (a first-year salary of between $5.5 and $6.5 million, depending on the new salary cap that will be released next week). A league source yesterday indicated that Navarro could be looking for a three-year deal worth $9 million to $12 million.

Three years and $9 million to $12 million? That's lottery pick money. If he was worth that kind of payday, shouldn't he have been drafted higher than 40th?

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 12:39 PM | Report abuse

"Three years and $9 million to $12 million? That's lottery pick money. If he was worth that kind of payday, shouldn't he have been drafted higher than 40th?"

Not when the buyout for your contract is 10 million dollars. Also you have to consider the last 5 years that he has played over in Spain as his rookie Contract. You would have to compare what he is signing for now to what a rookie gets after his first contract.

Posted by: dc | July 9, 2007 12:54 PM | Report abuse

He got drafted 40th based on his situation - being in Europe under contract in Europe with a heavy buyout - not based on his skill level. He's well worth $3 mill - $4 mill a year. That's why other teams are clamoring to get him.

The Wiz got sent packing in 4 gms last year because none of the guards could hit an open jumper, especially Stevenson who went 0-8, 3-14, 3-12, and 3-12 and shot it terribly after Gilbert's injury.

Posted by: LH | July 9, 2007 1:00 PM | Report abuse

I like Deshawn, but if I have to choose, I say we take a chance and go with JCN.

From the little available on JCN, I like the guy. He seems like an old-fashinoned, one-team athlete, especially his loyalty. He has guaranteed Barcelona that he will only leave them for the NBA, not another Euro team, and he has said all the right things regarding the Wizards re: being grateful for drafting him in 2002.

When recently asked about all the NBA teams allegedly pursuing him, he responded:

Memphis would be good because right now Pau [Gasol] is there. But he could be traded at any time. Miami would be good because of the team and because there are a lot of Spanish-speakers there. Washington is the only team that can decide where I'll play, and I'd be glad to play there. The most important thing is to be in the NBA and to play for my team, but what's clear is that I'm a Wizard until the Wizards tell me otherwise.

Translated from Spanish: http://www.bombanavarro.com/esp/web/Noticies.php?file=article&sid=191

Posted by: Sam | July 9, 2007 1:25 PM | Report abuse

it's true, that last year DS shot very well from beyond the arc, but if you look at his career, last year was an anamoly. in 7 seasons he has only shot over 30% from 3 three times. in fact, the year before last, he shot a terrible 13%!!!

carroll, in 4 season has never shot below 33%, and his last 2 shot 39% and 41%.

kapono in 4 seasons, has shot below 40% only once, at 39.6%.

he and carroll are specialists, who excel at their specific skill. DS is a guy who does a little bit of everything ok, but no one thing really well. if he was a defensive specialist, i could see paying him good money. but he is not some great defender (maybe he seems like it on our team, cuz of lack of effort from other players).

you also have to look at these other two teams and their needs. charlotte needs an outside shooter badly. so does toronto. to badly, that they each overpaid for one.

do we need a guy who is so-so at a lot of things badly? we really don't.

and while those other two players might be "bench" players, and DS is a starter, the fact is, he only played 3 minutes more per game than either of those other two.

while i don't think 15 over 4 years is an insane amount of money for DS, what i don't want is his resigning taking priority over blatche and JCN.

i saw we let him try the market and see if he gets some great contract. if he does, good for him, and we can replace his minutes with guys already on our team. if he doesn't we can sign him for something reasonable.

we over reached for perceived need when we signed thomas and daniels, and look how bad that has worked out for us salary-wise. we let guys go who wanted too much, like hughes and jeffries, and look how well that has worked out for us.

look at the league champion. san antonio has only 4 players on their roster making over 4 mil a year. we already have 6. DS, if we offer him more, would make 7.

let's not break the bank on "eh" players...

Posted by: JC | July 9, 2007 1:28 PM | Report abuse

"He got drafted 40th based on his situation - being in Europe under contract in Europe with a heavy buyout - not based on his skill level. He's well worth $3 mill - $4 mill a year. That's why other teams are clamoring to get him."

Of course his draft position had something to do with his skill level. If teams thought he had lottery talent, then drafting him in the lottery would have only increased the odds of his coming over early because he would have had a guaranteed contract that allowed him to pay off his buyout.

The Wiz got sent packing in 4 gms last year because none of the guards could hit an open jumper, especially Stevenson who went 0-8, 3-14, 3-12, and 3-12 and shot it terribly after Gilbert's injury.

They got sent packing because their two best players were on the bench in street clothes, because their bench was nonexistent, and because they had a gaping void in the middle of their lineup where a quality C should have been.

Posted by: kalorama | July 9, 2007 1:30 PM | Report abuse

If Navarro went in this years draft, he would have been a lottery pick...4 years ago, it was a different story. He's legit and is literally the best player in Europe, and the case could be made that he's the best player not in the NBA.

Posted by: Justin | July 9, 2007 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Also, Deshawn ain't worth 4/12 and he definitely isn't worth 4/15, that's just absurd, especially considering no other teams have made him an offer. He's a shooting guard who CANNOT create his own shot (that's a bad thing) and he's very overrated on D, which is supposed to be his strong point.

Posted by: Justin | July 9, 2007 2:23 PM | Report abuse

JCN is a talent but lottery level is kinda pushing it for a 6'3" combo guard that isn't super athletic or a high flyer. Mid to late 1st round in most drafts but not this past one since it was so deep.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 2:26 PM | Report abuse

He's not overrated on D, he just said he'd like the challenge playing D. Nowhere in his history did he say he was a shutdown defender. So he didn't light it up w/o the Big 2 in there during the playoffs but what did you expect for a starter at the veteran minimum or even at 4M/year? For crying out loud, cancerous Stackhouse (who also doesn't show up for the playoffs) got $6M/year for being a bench player.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 2:47 PM | Report abuse

He's not overrated on D, he just said he'd like the challenge playing D. Nowhere in his history did he say he was a shutdown defender. Hell, he wasn't great but he was still much better defensively than "I got nothing left to break" Larry "Smooth, BUT No Shot" Hughes but I'll still jack it up 20 times a night. So DS2 didn't light it up w/o the Big 2 in there during the playoffs but what did you expect for a starter at the veteran minimum or even at 4M/year? For crying out loud, cancerous boy Stackhouse (who also doesn't show up for the playoffs) got $6M/year for being a 15 mins./game bench player. Just so we can start all over for 4 straight years with a different starting SG. That's continuity at work for you, just as Gil is getting comfortable when to pass to his backcourt mate, let's dump him. Get real people, just because we can't keep both JCN and DS2 does not mean you start saying $4M is too much for a starting SG. Yes you can arguably say that JCN is a better talent for similar money, but it's nonsense to say that a $4M starting SG is overpaid.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Please, that's a little revisionist history right there. Stevenson was touted as being a pretty good defender coming into last season and would be an improvement on D. He was inconsistent at best...maybe playing alongside gil didn't help his D. And just because Stackhouse gets overpaid doesn't mean Stevenson should either. 29 other teams have offered absolutely nothing to him, yet we offer 4/15 after he doesn't bite on 4/12. I really hope this isn't pandering to Gil.

I'd rather have the point production of JCN than the lack there of from Stevenson. Don't get me wrong though, I wouldn't mind stevenson at 3 years 9 mil if it meant we still could keep JCN, but at what the offer is now, absolutely not.

Posted by: Justin | July 9, 2007 3:02 PM | Report abuse

JC, do you realize that Stevenson only took 15 3's for Orlando when he shot 13%? Yeah, he was 2 for 15. But you want to put more into those 15 shots than the 183 he took last year? His percentage the year before that was 37%, again would have led the team.

Carroll got paid like a specialist, but had the same 3pt % as Deshawn, who was the best 3pt shooter on the team last year. And Carroll is a liability without the ball in his hands.

We can keep going with the salary comparisons if you like. Anthony Parker got 4.5 mil from Toronto last year coming from Europe. He scored 12 with 2ast, and 3 boards.

Willie Green is making 14 over 4 for his 11 points, 2.5ast and 2 boards per, coming off the bench in Philly.

I hope Ernie doesn't mention that line about him basically being a reserve to Deshawn or his agent. He was the only Wizard to start in 82 games, the only one to even play in all 82 games actually. So going with that "you only played a little mroe than some reserves" would probably end negotiations on the spot.

I agree Ernie is done bidding against himself. Time to get it done or move on.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 9, 2007 3:05 PM | Report abuse

One mroe thing, people are saying no other team has made an offer. How do you know? Because the Washington Post hasn't printed another offer? The Post is getting the Wizards offers from team officials. They only 'printed' a number from Deshawn's side in a blog. To me that says his people don't want to negotiate through the media which is refreshing when every other place you look there's an agent saying 6 teams have called.

To assume he has no other offers and therefore we should low-ball him makes no sense.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 9, 2007 3:11 PM | Report abuse

so of course, you'd lowball a player b/c nobody has offered him another figure that is still especially reasonable for a STARTING SG. you'd fit right in management working from your basement and expect to be paid like your office was in NYC. many players around the league are going to flock to you for a deal. lol

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 3:12 PM | Report abuse

"To assume he has no other offers and therefore we should low-ball him makes no sense."

$12 mill over 4 years is hardly lowballing, given that no one else is going to offer him that much money.

Beat reporters don't wait outside Ernie's office waiting for him to feed them news. They have sources throughout the organization and the NBA. Nary a week goes by without every half-whispered hint of a trade/signing rumor being posted/printed/published somewhere. We've gotten weeks of obsessive coverage of every half-assed Garnett trade rumor that's come down the pike. How many teams have we heard about who might be interested in Blatche or Navarro? The fact that absolutely no one has reported any interest in Stevenson by another team speaks volumes.

Posted by: kalorama | July 9, 2007 3:23 PM | Report abuse

And then you want to save less 1M/year so that the team learns to play w/ another starting SG for 4 straight years. It'll take them 45 games to get used to each other before they even start to resemble a starting 5 again. That makes sense huh?

Now you'd have to give JCN the edge in offensive talent and possible point production for similar money, but all i'm saying is that it doesn't automatically make DS2's market value "ABSURD". It just makes JCN's more likely to be a bargain b/c there is a little more risk and reward in that whereas you know what DS2 brings.

Just b/c YOU THINK EG has no way to fit both DS2 and JCN on the Wiz salary cap, you'd have to discount DS2's contribution and fitment to make it look like JCN's case is much stronger than it really is. this is bending the facts staring everyone in the face.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 3:31 PM | Report abuse

If it's not lowballing, name me a starting SG that has been in the NBA (not overseas or is still on their rookie contract) who makes ~ 4M/year AND is effective or plays within his role on the team.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Regarding the Aldridge column: why the heck does www.nba.com pick it up like it's some breaking news regarding a set trade? I think that's extremely misleading.

Posted by: Nick | July 9, 2007 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Come on guys make up your minds. I read on here all the time about dishonest Abe and what a cheap organization the Wizards are.
Now, It's let's lowball Stevenson! There is something to be said for the way Stevenson has handled the process.
Exactly how does anybody know what anyone has offered him. Deals can't be signed until the 11th so the announcements that have been coming out are verbal agreements. I'd agree at least Stevenson and his agent aren't negotiating in the press which to me shows some class.
Ernie won't overbid for Stevenson, he's proven that the last couple of years. But he can and should be fair to the guy. That's how you build a winning team. Look how quickly the Spurs moved to offer similar deals to three of their lower paid guys.

Posted by: GM | July 9, 2007 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Don't you just love your office's manager bringing in a new body off K street to fill your assistant position every 3 months so he/she can save a buck? You think only Gil would notice that and be disappointed? I guess Caron, AJ, Haywood, Etan, Songaila, etc. must not play on that same floor..

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Oh please. I don't recall any of the Wiz players being treated for clinical depression after Grunfeld let Hughes and Jeffries go rather than paying more than they were worth to keep them. I seriously doubt losing Stevenson will kick off a wave of player suicide attempts.

"Ernie won't overbid for Stevenson, he's proven that the last couple of years. But he can and should be fair to the guy. "

Agreed. And it's the opinion of many, given his limited role on the team and well-displayed limitations as a player, that $12 mill/4 yrs is more than fair.

Posted by: kalorama | July 9, 2007 3:57 PM | Report abuse

it seems like we all "almost" agree...we all agree taht grunfeld has a cap for what he's going to offer stevenson, right? our differences here are DS' market value. the fact that EG STARTED the bidding at $3M/yr indicated to me that this was the absolute best case scenario for the wizards. DS turned it down, which was clearly expected, but he apparently didn't completely balk at the offer, so we can maybe assume that he's know totally out in left field with what he thinks he's worth. since then we've been inching closer but haven't quite gotten to $4M/yr. i think we're right at the mendoza line at $4M. again, while i understand that DS has limitations, i think it's short-sighted to discount his value and role with THIS team. there's such a thing in the nba, or any league, as a glue guy. it seems as if DS is one of those players. the other thing that baffles me, which was pointed out a little earlier: i'm sure most of you are 'skins fans, how can you not appreciate an attempt at some form of continuity here? DS is a NBA starter, and a valued member of this team, i don't think what he's being offered is out of control...hell, do you all realize that the QUALIFYING offer for arvis is like 3.6? i like the progress of the negotiations, and if we can sign DS for $4M/yr or less, we will still have some $ left in the MLE to sign navarro and do some wiggling to of salaries (probably move etan & AD) to lock up blatche...most of this armchair GM stuff is laughable though 90% of the proposals and ideas on here would make isaiah, mchale, jordan, ainge, and danny snyder proud...

Posted by: RichBoy | July 9, 2007 4:27 PM | Report abuse

fyi "disappointed" wasn't meant for the players going into clinical depressions or suicide attempts. Disappointed in the Wiz organization for lack of continuity and making them learn how to play with each other again and again and again. Wow, if you're gonna mock somebody, you might wanna get a clue.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Hughes and Jeffries were both valued members of the team. Their loss didn't plunge the Wiz into a sinkhole of despair.

If he were a lockdown defender or a 20 ppg scorer or a deadeye shooter from long-range, it would be different. But he's not. He may be (nominally) a starter, but he's still a role-player. I'm not saying Stevenson is worthless. I'm simply saying his value is limited and specific to this team and his salary should reflect that.

Posted by: kalorama | July 9, 2007 4:35 PM | Report abuse

I already have a pretty good clue that intentional hyperbole and sarcasm zoom right over your head like an f-14 jet.

Posted by: kalorama | July 9, 2007 4:37 PM | Report abuse

well spoken RichBoy!

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 4:41 PM | Report abuse

"so of course, you'd lowball a player b/c nobody has offered him another figure that is still especially reasonable for a STARTING SG. you'd fit right in management working from your basement and expect to be paid like your office was in NYC. many players around the league are going to flock to you for a deal. lol"

funny the above sarcasm just flew over your head since I don't know what it is but dished it. what a joke.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Roger Mason and Pinnock for Amare Stoudemire.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 4:51 PM | Report abuse

i agree, kalorama, his skills and value are indeed limited...we just disagree slightly on where his salary should be....you say 3, i say 4...see we're negotiating just like DS and ernie! lol let's settle at 3.75, whaddayasay?

Posted by: RichBoy | July 9, 2007 4:53 PM | Report abuse

the almighty kal-el at work here, ladies and gentlemen..

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 4:56 PM | Report abuse

One thing that hasn't been mentioned re: the Stevenson negotiations that is a bit unusual is this:

Usually, GMs know that if they offer more than anyone else, they'll land the player. So, for example, if Ernie offers Stevenson $3 million per for 3 years, and no other team offers that much, Ernie would feel pretty confident that Stevenson would eventually accept the offer.

During negotiations, Stevenson's agent might try to huff and puff to get more money from Ernie, but that's a lot of hot air without a better offer to back it up. So a claim that, "If you don't make a better offer, we'll walk and take a worse offer for one year elsewhere," usually will be met with an eyeroll. No player EVER does that!

BUT here, Stevenson already did it! So it's not just a bluff if his agent says the same thing this year. Stevenson's craziness might actually be helping him in negotiations this summer.

Posted by: Sean | July 9, 2007 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Well, this is an entertaining thread, to be sure. Frankly, I can't see resigning DS for any amount. He just doesn't add much to the W/L column either way, IMO. I like the creativity and shooting ability I've seen from JCN on YouTube, and the accolades from those who have seen him play extensively. Let's dump Stevenson, get JCN and Young in here, and get to work.

Posted by: Keithinator | July 9, 2007 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Sean, actually Stevenson only took the Wiz offer not because he walked away and took a worse offer, but that Orlando just quickly took the offer off the table and left him scrounging for crumbs.

In either case, it just looks like both sides are paying due diligence to find a happy medium for Stevenson's true market value knowing they both want him here. EG won't go overboard and overspend but at the same time, Stevenson's got to get what he feels is fair to him as well.

EG knows Stevenson is a known commodity on this team, JCN could be better but then again the grass isn't always greener on the other side as much as every fervent fan hopes it will be.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 5:16 PM | Report abuse

Guys, I think the yearly salary is fair for Stevenson but thinking long term Young would be our starting 2 in two years. So a 3 year deal is optimal for us Wiz. I would guess Stevenson wants a longer deal, so who knows maybe EG will let him walk anyway?

Posted by: Wizzin' by Ya | July 9, 2007 5:24 PM | Report abuse

"Roger Mason and Pinnock for Amare Stoudemire.

Posted by: | July 9, 2007 04:51 PM "

Love it! Keep 'em coming!

Posted by: mikem | July 9, 2007 5:25 PM | Report abuse

"funny the above sarcasm just flew over your head since I don't know what it is but dished it."

How did it "fly over my head"? I certainly understood it. I just didn't respond to it. You responded directly to my post in a way that clearly indicated you didn't get it.

Nice try, though. Feel free to keep swinging. Maybe you'll get lucky and connect.

Posted by: kalorama | July 9, 2007 5:27 PM | Report abuse

So only 20 point scorers get 4 million or more? Is this the NBA salary scale from 1996?

That figure is below the [1] NBA average [/i] and the guy started 82 games last year and averaged in double figures, top 4 on the team in assists, etc etc.

"How is 4 years 12 million lowballing?" When bench players that don't produce as much as he did get more money, that offer (more directly the first 2 offers) are considered low balling.

Finally, my favorite, because the Post didn't print it then Deshawn must not have any other offers... dense.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 9, 2007 5:56 PM | Report abuse

dense. agreed but now kal-el wants to talk semantics cause he didn't understand how starting over every year could be a disappointment for Gil and gang. Turns around to call it hyperbole. So at $3M/yr it's fair to him, but at $3.75M/yr he thinks it's absurd.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 7:44 PM | Report abuse

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