Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: MrMichaelLee and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Redskins and Sports  |  RSS

Vegas baby!

I've been in Hot Vegas for a few hours and already the rumor mill is cranking. The latest buzz is that Wiz president Ernie Grunfeld has received "several" offers from Juan Carlos Navarro's NBA rights but has yet to bite.
That could change at any minute. Ernie is here along with a bunch of other GMs so who knows what might go down over dinner and few a glasses of fine wine, you know? I'm hearing that Ernie is demanding that any team interested in JCN must be willing to take on Etan Thomas and/or Antonio Daniels and give back something nice in return like a high first round pick or a high quality player.
This fits into what I've been writing all along: Ernie's priority is on keeping DeShawn Stevenson with that mid-level and there is now way he can do that and keep JCN with the team's current cap situation. I'm heading over to the arena so to catch some hoops action and keep some more info on the Wiz.

By Ivan Carter  |  July 9, 2007; 5:19 PM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Thibodeau has "change of heart", steps down
Next: Wiz fall in SL opener

Comments

this is a bittersweet feeling...after 5 years of waiting for this guy to come over, looks like we're gonna trade him. he seems like a major talent, and i hope the curse o' les boulez doesn't rear it's ugly head...on the other hand, him being as hot a commodity as he is, and the fact that we didn't even expect to have him as said commodity 2 weeks ago, to be able to use him to get an upgraded frontcourt player AND get rid of etan's contract is super!

Posted by: RichBoy | July 9, 2007 5:29 PM | Report abuse

FIRST! :D

Way to go Ernie for the asking price of a quality player or 1st round pick! None of this Posey, Swift crap-heap. We gotta get cap space and value for JCN if we're dealing him. 2008 draft has arguably similar talent as this year so I'm hoping he deals with a cellar dweller baby.

Posted by: Wizzin' by Ya | July 9, 2007 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Oh NO! Not first after all! sigh... haha

Posted by: Wizzin' by Ya | July 9, 2007 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Ivan for the update and I'm sure you're gonna have some fun in Sin City watching hoops and OTHER things..

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 5:35 PM | Report abuse

At least Ernie is treating JCN like the talent he is. And that package requirement really keeps teams like Miami and Cleveland from winning any bidding war. if they did, they'd have paid a steep price...

So unless Deshawn overplays his hand badly (again) there won't be room for Navarro. I'm greedy, I want them both. Are they looking into ways to move Daniels and make room for JCN?

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 9, 2007 5:37 PM | Report abuse

I think he's asking for too much, but maybe it's a neg ploy. I'd send JCN and Etan in exchange for a low 1st rounder and an expiring deal....even one that has 2 years instead of Etan's 3.

Posted by: Mike P | July 9, 2007 5:43 PM | Report abuse

"....high first round pick or a high quality player."

I 100% agree with RichBoy.

So what happens if no one bites?

I guess I look at it from the perspective that if people want that guy then he can probably play, right?

I don't think Stevenson is worth the money either. So to say that I feel "bittersweet" is about right. There's a higher ceiling with Navarro then with Stevenson.

They damn well better get something good out of this.

Also looks like Jordan will be forced to play Haywood next year. That should be interesting.

Thanks Ivan for the update, we really appreciate it. :)

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | July 9, 2007 5:45 PM | Report abuse

BTW, why is he trying to get rid of AD all of a sudden?

Posted by: Mike P | July 9, 2007 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Mike -

Daniels is best suited on a team that can give him starters minutes. You saw what he did in the playoffs, averaging 11 assists per game. But the fact is, he's getting old and he's getting paid about $6 million per year.

Posted by: Raf | July 9, 2007 5:54 PM | Report abuse

I find it hard to imagine that there are going to be many takers for Navarro on those terms.

Posted by: kalorama | July 9, 2007 5:54 PM | Report abuse

well, i think AD and thomas have similar contracts, but also, in my opinion, it's a buy low sell high thing. same as JCN, although with him there's a bit more risk because he could turn out to be a super stud...that's what being a GM is all about, rolling the dice. with nick young's potential, we're in a unique position to bring in a quality player with thomas and JCN/AD, and that is optimal for us, because going into the summer our #1 bargaining chip was antwan's expiring contract, which we didn't want to have to give up because A.) antwan is so valuable to the team, and B.) because antwan's $16.8M or so comes off the books at the end of the season...this is a wonderful use of chips by grunfeld. even if he does nothing here, it's like he's actually in the world series of poker, with our roster being the cards

Posted by: RichBoy | July 9, 2007 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Raf, I agree that Daniels' age and salary are issues, but the fact remains he's one of the better backup PGs in the NBA (regularly atop the rankings of A/TO ratio) and the Wiz don't have anyone in the pipeline to fill his spot.

Posted by: kalorama | July 9, 2007 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Agreed, Kalorama. AD is the only true point guard on the team, and if they move him...Donnell Taylor? Yikes.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 6:08 PM | Report abuse

Back up PGs making 6 million a year? Its a short list. Most teams are busy trying to find a starter. There are plenty of back up PGs available.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 9, 2007 6:18 PM | Report abuse

the sad truth of it is, you have to make tough decisions when there's a salary cap. if there was no cap, i'd say, hell yeah, sign DS for 6 mil a year. who cares. but if he's going for the full mid-level, which means we are forced to trade JCN and possibly forced (because we're not going into luxury tax world) to not resign blatche, then i say let him go.

suddenly his "price" is NOT just his salary, but also our combined possible loss of two other good players.

now if a deal comes around like ernie is aking for, especially if it nets us a high quality player, then go for it. not sure what teams are out there looking to give up a good player for a backup center and a possibly starting combo guard...

memphis could give up on miller, especially if they plan on going with rudy gay in the future...they are looking hard to sign a center. and they're likely not going to find one for less money than thomas makes...conley and jcn in their backcourt, gay gasol and thomas/swift in their front.

having jcn would make gasol happy. and they'd still keep their first round pick next year, which would probably be in the top 15...

we'd have one of the best 6th men in the league (or he could even push deshawn for starting minutes).

arenas, deshawn, butler, jamison, haywood/pech starting and daniels, young, miller, blatche, haywood/pech as a second team.

we certainly wouldn't ever have any trouble scoring....

Posted by: JC | July 9, 2007 6:34 PM | Report abuse

I'm relieved that Ernie is pricing Navarro correctly. And if no one bites, then Ernie can offer Navarro the money he's got available, and if Navarro doesn't accept that, he can wait a year and sign with the Wizards next summer when the team will have more money. Ernie holds all the cards, and I'm glad he's playing them.

Personally, I'm hoping some other team knocks Stevenson's socks off with an offer, he takes it, and Ernie signs Navarro. Fat chance, I know.

If Minnesota keeps Garnett, I've thought all along that Daniels would be a perfect fit for them. They need a steady hand at the point to move that team forward. Daniels and Navarro in exchange for an expiring contract and next year's first round pick would be good (very likely a lottery pick, because Juwan's on that team now -- haha). And I wonder if Michael Jordan, who picked Navarro, still likes him. He traded for Etan, picked Navarro, has cap room and wants to start winning. Maybe he'd be interested.

Posted by: Sean | July 9, 2007 6:44 PM | Report abuse

No Thibodeau update, Ivan?
What's the scuttlebutt from the other teams about what they think went down with Ernie, Eddie, and Thibodeau?

Posted by: Joe | July 9, 2007 6:51 PM | Report abuse

DS won't sign for that money. Watch he signs for the minimum again...and we sign JCN. AJ is trade bait...has to be with that expiring massive contract.

Posted by: George | July 9, 2007 6:56 PM | Report abuse

if anyone offers you a "happy ending", AND it's a female, i suggest you take them up on it.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Only way it would be worthwhile to trade JCN for a pick is if we land Hibbert. No guarantee in that. In case EG deals him to the sixers, I'd do it for JCN/Etan for at least Delambert & Korver.

Posted by: DC Man88 | July 9, 2007 7:33 PM | Report abuse

Ivan,

Who was cut from the summer league roster?

I'd like to see your definite, likely, possible, and long shot list for the final roster.

Here's mine,with the assumption being Navarro is traded with Etan Thomas for a first rounder and a second rounder. Not sure if the Wizards are not better off keeping Navarro but they likely can't get rid of Etan's contract unless they give up Navarro. Are they better off letting DeShawn go, signing Navarro to the MLE and forgetting about the trade?

Definite: Arenas, Butler, Daniels, Haywood, Stevenson, Pecherov, Blatche, Songalia, Young, Jamison, McGuire. 11 players.

Likely: Visser, Booth, Mason. 3 players.

Possible: Pinkney, Hall, Pinnock. 3 players. Only 1 of these players makes it.

Gone: Ruffin, Taylor, Hayes, Navarro(trade), Thomas (trade)

Who will start at center under this scenario and who gets most of the backup minutes?


Posted by: KSM | July 9, 2007 7:33 PM | Report abuse

I'm waiting for DS to pull a Sprewell/Gilby by saying he can't feed his family or buy more "can't feel my face" t-shirts for the "chump change" EG is offering him.

Posted by: DC Man88 | July 9, 2007 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Lets be fair what Gilbert said is not in the same league as what Sprewell said when it came to salaries. It sounds like Ernie has reached his max offer to Stevenson with 4 yr., $15 mill. so now the ball is Stevenson's court to find a better offer.
And I agree with you kalorama it doesn't make a lot of sense to trade Navarro and Daniels. If they did who is available that would be a decent backup PG? Anyone have suggestions (and don't count Steve Blake, he wants to start and get the full MLE, so that isn't realistic).

Posted by: George Templeton | July 9, 2007 7:46 PM | Report abuse

From Dan Steinberg's D.C. Sports Bog

The Wizards finalized their Summer League roster today, releasing Shagari Alleyne, Leon Rodgers and Derrick Zimmerman.

Posted by: Daydreamer | July 9, 2007 8:09 PM | Report abuse

We need to get rid of Haywood, Ruffin,Hayes Booth,and possibly E.Thomas all those players add little to the overall success of the team. We need to get defensive players and a center who can get us a double, double each night I think that we should get Jamaal Maglorie he can get that if he starts.

Posted by: JR. GM | July 9, 2007 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Magloire? he's a shell of himself years ago and even then he was only an all star cause there wasn't anyone even decent in the East at that time. I even doubt he could do anything against Etan or Haywood if he tried now. Five years ago, it would have sounded pretty good but now you'd see he can barely play any more.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 8:51 PM | Report abuse

"There are plenty of back up PGs available."

None of whom are anywhere as good at running an offense as Daniels is. With Blake likely to end up starting, probably the best FA backup PG on the market was Jacque Vaughan (which is a sad fact in and of itself) and he just resigned with the Spurs.

Posted by: kalorama | July 9, 2007 8:52 PM | Report abuse

Forget Navarro for now, sign Blatche!!!! Or better yet, let DS walk and sign Navarro...DS = garbage. The playoffs proved it.

Posted by: Infamous FC | July 9, 2007 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Forget Navarro for now, sign Blatche!!!! Or better yet, let DS walk and sign Navarro...DS = garbage. The playoffs proved it.

Posted by: Infamous FC | July 9, 2007 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Forget Navarro for now, sign Blatche!!!! Or better yet, let DS walk and sign Navarro...DS = garbage. The playoffs proved it.

Posted by: Infamous FC | July 9, 2007 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Memphis wouldnt be interested in giving up a proven 3pt threat in MIke Miller for a back up center and a project. Maybe for stro & cardinal and a conditional 1st rounder

Posted by: Memphis | July 9, 2007 9:28 PM | Report abuse

I trust Ernie.

I'm eating all these updates with a spoon, too. Thanks Ivan. Can't wait to see the rooks tomorrow.

Posted by: Patrick | July 9, 2007 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Re: Blake

Blake has gotten greedy also, he has let it be known through his agent that he wants 6 mil a year......no takers.

Posted by: Wizzy | July 9, 2007 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Blatche will be resigned for anything up to an MLE-sized deal. That's a no-brainer.

Ernie is exhibiting some gamesmanship regarding Navarro. There is no way anybody takes on Etan's contract and gives up a 1st rounder for Navarro. I think EG will be satisfied if he can use Navarro to dump Etan for an expiring contract (or, better yet, to an under-the-cap team for pure cap space in return).

The loss of Etan will be addition by subtraction because it will mean more minutes for Haywood at center. Either that, it or it will mean more burn for Blatche and Pecherov which will be good over the long term. It's a win win either way.

I doubt EG wants to dump Daniels. Daniels has been a very good fit here. If he is using Navarro to unload a contract, it only makes sense if it's Etan. If he unloads Daniels instead of Etan, the Wizards will be left with no backup PG and a log jam at center.

The best scenario would be to trade Etan and Daniels for expiring contracts. That would leave Navarro as the 3rd guard and put the team in position to be $12-$15M under the cap next summer. That's a tall order though. Not many teams have $13M in expiring contracts to trade. And those that do aren't exactly dying for Etan Thomas (though Daniels would certainly help a lot of teams).

Posted by: nate33 | July 9, 2007 9:52 PM | Report abuse

I like AD, he's started some seasons slow, but he's a gamer and he's willing to put his body on the line (not sure if that's a good thing with the Curse O' and all).

Ernie G. probably wants the cap flexibility that his contract hurts though.


Whether we trade JCN, "la bomba" or not, let's all consider this found money and hope that Gruns spends it well.


I know Etan has a bad contract, but shouldn't we be trying to get rid of the bad attitude in Brenda H-Wood instead?

Thing is, it's a delicate situation...remember how Etan & Brenda's hatred for each other actually made them play better?

What happens if only one leaves, does the other suck?

Hell, trade 'em both.


DE-shawn??

What's the offer now? $15 million for 4 years? Haven't we "upped" that figure twice? Big Ern should check on the turn...the market is simply not there for "Can't See Me".

He should be happy with the money and we should be happy with the price.


I'd choose Michael Ruffin over Calvin Booth any day....I don't care if he likes to throw the ball up in the air before games are over.

But which one would loose in an ugly contest?


Jamaal Magloire? He's just a questionable cat....not much heart.

Think about it...WWSD.

What would San Antonio do? Sign him? Nope.


That's all, I'm out.

Posted by: k-dub | July 9, 2007 10:00 PM | Report abuse

George, I agree that what Sprewell said pales in comparison to what Gilby said, as Sprewell went overboard with his comments and said he wasn't going to feed his children until he got more money. Given that though, I think Gilby had less to cry about because he's going to bank easily over 100 mil from his playing days with Les BouleS if he signs an extension for the extra 5 years right now. 99.9% of humans on this earth would feel secure about themselves and their children with 100 mil not including endorsements.

Given that, I can't believe Gilby said he was worried about his financial future because of his injury, with a straight face, thus using that as an excuse to opt out, which puts him at MORE risk near term until he signs the 6 year max deal. The bottom line is if he signs an extension now, he will guarantee himself that extra five years. If he opts out, he runs the risk of blowing out his knee or doesn't play up to a max level contract without an extension, which is way more risky and goes against his excuse about security.

Posted by: DC Man88 | July 9, 2007 10:05 PM | Report abuse

George, I meant "I agree that what Gilby said pales in comparison to what Sprewell said."

Posted by: DC Man88 | July 9, 2007 10:11 PM | Report abuse

I really don't like the idea of paying Deshawn $15M over 4 years. The way I see it, Nick Young will be taking over at starting SG in a year or so anyhow. So then the Wizards would be stuck paying Deshawn $4M a year to play 10-15 minutes a night at backup SG. Heck, he might get fewer minutes than that since Daniels plays some minutes at SG as well. Deshawn (or any other stop-gap solution at starting SG) is really only needed for one year. Effectively, we'd be paying Deshawn $15M for only one real season.

The other issue is the salary cap. If Ernie manages to use Navarro to dump Etan, the Wizards would be in position to be about $8M under the cap next summer (assuming Jamison is let go). That's important because it's more than the MLE, which would put the Wizards in better shape than most other teams in free agency. But if Deshawn is resigned to that contract, the Wizards will have no cap space next summer.

That cap room can also be utilized to facilitate other kinds of trades where the salaries don't match up.

Rather than sign Deshawn, I'd much rather see the Wizards sign a guy to a 1-year deal, even if it's for a $4M or $5M. My favorite option is Eddie Jones. Another option is Jarvis Hayes. He might agree to a 1-year extension in the $3-4M range so he can have one more shot to "break out" before he becomes a free agent. Believe it or not, Hayes is nearly identical to Deshawn statistically when he plays SG. He's also a much better defender against SG's. Hayes' stats suffer when he's stuck at PF in a smallball lineup.

Hayes has problems when he tries to do too much. (The next time I see that awful turnaround fadeaway go in will be the first time.) But if Hayes was instructed to just play defense and only shoot when wide open, he'd be okay. That's all that Deshawn does anyway.

Posted by: nate33 | July 9, 2007 10:12 PM | Report abuse

Ivan,

I would like to see analysis of what positions Blatche, Pecherov, McGuire and Songalia are going to play. We seem to be way overcrowded at PF. I can see Blatche and McGuire playing some SF. I would like to see Blatche or Pecherov at center---unclear if they have enough bulk to withstand the pounding.

Posted by: KSM | July 9, 2007 10:22 PM | Report abuse

WWSD what would San Antonio do...nice, k-dub.

Posted by: Patrick | July 9, 2007 10:42 PM | Report abuse

I've been saying for a while now that there was no good reason for the Wiz to keep both Hayes and Stevenson. Since Grunfeld seems to be putting all of his efforts into re-signing DeShawn and hasn't been reported as offering even a qualifying offer to Jarvis, that may be the plan. But if Stevenson's price continues to climb, it may be worth it to cut him loose and focus on Jarvis. Like DeShawn, it's unlikely anyone's going to offer him big money to leave DC, so he might sign a 1-year qulifying offer and take a chance on improving his market value for next summer.

The fact that they haven't offered him a deal yet indicates that they're waiting to see what he gets offered by other teams to set his market price, a strategy they should have employed with Stevenson.

Posted by: kalorama | July 9, 2007 10:47 PM | Report abuse

"None of whom are anywhere as good at running an offense as Daniels is."

The argument against paying Deshawn was that he isn't special in any one area. But AD has A-TO ratio! Ding ding, pay the man.

He's making more than most starters while playing 22 minutes a game and dishing out just over 3 and a half assists in those 22 minutes. We don't need to spend 6 million for an assist every 7 minutes. He brings nothing from 3 point range, and his scoring ability has diminished each of the last 3 seasons... and he just turned 32 in March. When he is asked to play extended minutes his body begins to break down. He's owed something like 19 million over the next 3 years.

Its odd that you're in favor of paying Daniels (32) starer money or better for 3 more years to play backup minutes and put up average stats as a "glue guy" but want no part of paying Deshawn (26) Less to play and produce More.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 9, 2007 10:48 PM | Report abuse

KSM McGuire's best position is the SF not PF although he can play some spot minutes there due to his toughness and length.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2007 11:02 PM | Report abuse

I think you mean offers for his rights, not offers from his rights.

Posted by: Mr Brain | July 9, 2007 11:06 PM | Report abuse

"The argument against paying Deshawn was that he isn't special in any one area."

That wasn't my argument, so that comment really has no bearing on my position. My argument against paying Stevenson is, simply, that for what he produces, he's not worth that kind of money.

"Its odd that you're in favor of paying Daniels (32) starer money or better for 3 more years to play backup minutes and put up average stats as a "glue guy" but want no part of paying Deshawn (26) Less to play and produce More."

Apples and oranges.

The obvious difference is that Daniels (A) is already under contract and (B) fills a much needed role that will be harder to replace. Stevenson is a FA who plays a limited role for which it would be easier to find a replacement at less than his asking price. You don't pay $15 mill dollars to a SG who can't create his own shot and misses wide open jumpers (shooting 20% from the field) in playoff games.

You make a big deal about Stevenson "producing more" but that's not really the case. Daniels scored 4 fewer PPG than DeShawn, but then (A) he played 8 fewer MPG than DeShawn and (B) his role was not to score, it was to run the offense. He dished out more assists, despite playing fewer minutes, got to the line more, shot a higher FT percentage, and almost never turned the ball over. If you think that last one isn't crucial on an uptempo, fast-breaking offensive team like the WEiz, you're mistaken.

And it doesn't matter what Daniels' body does when he plays extended minutes because, as long as Gilbert is healthy, he won't play extended minutes. And if Gilbert's not healthy, they're screwed because Stevenson becomes a major scoring option scoring option at SG, and we've seen how well that works.

Despite being a nominal starter, Stevenson is a role player at SG. And the role he plays is easier to fill than the one Daniels does. The talent pool at SG (esp. b list SGs like Stevenson) is always deeper than at PG.

Posted by: kalorama | July 9, 2007 11:12 PM | Report abuse

To Add:

I'd be fine with moving Daniels if there was another PG on the horizon who could come close to filling his role as well. But there isn't. SGs who score 10 points in 30 MPG aren't that hard to come by.

Posted by: kalorama | July 9, 2007 11:25 PM | Report abuse

Etan and Antonio were Ernie's only two screw-ups so far (not counting when he re-signed Eddie, which he was muscled into by gilbert).

Antonio was hot in the playoffs but his overall body of work has not been very impressive. He went through stretches last season where he caught DNPs, which is not something you want to pay $6mil for.

He's a decent player but Ernie overpaid for him.

Etan doesnt need any explanation.

With all that said its good to see Ernie trying to flip either of those two in a JCN deal.

It feels good to have him at the helm. He's admitting he screwed up with those two and trying to do something about it. You kind of get the feeling he's gonna make the right move.

Its too bad he couldnt package Eddie into the JCN deal.

Posted by: Ray Chris. | July 10, 2007 12:05 AM | Report abuse

DCMan if Gilbert signed an extension now, without opting out, it wouldn't take effect for another 3 years. The reason he is opting out now is so he accelerates the raise in pay sooner. So it is not that big a risk for him to opt out now.

Posted by: George Templeton | July 10, 2007 12:13 AM | Report abuse

JNC likely will be traded to Memphis. I read an inter-net report that Memphis new coach went over to Spain to talk to Gasol. The report said that Gasol would drop his trade demands if JNC was on the team. But Memphis already has 3 point guards(Damond S.,Conly,K Lowry)(Actually Lowry is a great defender.) Memphis do not have not 1 true center on the team,and also they have a low payroll.
So the wiz take Lowry(1 mil. salary) and a conditional 1st. rounder and give Memphis Etan and JNC rights. Thats cool for both teams.So if EG do trade AD (probably next year) we already have a reliable back-up.Plus we send Etan and his bad contract out West.
But I still would not give DS2 1 cent over 14 mill over 4 years. He can be replace with Jarvis who probably take 2 years 4 mill.

Posted by: d square | July 10, 2007 1:04 AM | Report abuse

I would prefer that we try to get someone to take on Haywood's contract in a package with Navarro in return for a starting center for us. But looks like Grunfeld wants to package Navarro with Etan instead, and who knows what we'd get in return.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 1:09 AM | Report abuse

Kalorama I don't really look at the 10pts per 30 min as the true test of DS value in this case.

I personally think that DS is a pretty good fit for the team, and the team performed pretty well with him in it. OK, aside from the playoffs. But everyone (on the wiz) struggled this year in the playoffs.

My larger point would be that having that consistency and stability overall could be valuable to this team right now in ways that go beyond his 10pts per game. Frankly, I don't really need him scoring more than that. Personally, I don't see any of our young guys ready to start, and I feel that pressuring them with this veteran team could be a bit too much. AD is great, but I don't think he should start. He needs to come off the bench. So giving DS a fair contract (which we have) seems to be a good decision. Especially if we don't go overboard in the process. I think EG might have a few moves up his sleeves that will allow us to keep Blatche even if we keep DS. WE will see. And as much as I like Blatche, I don't think we should go overboard for him either. He has flashes, but hasn't put it all together yet. And I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he gets passed on the depth chart before he becomes a regular starter.

At the end of the day, i'm very curious about JCN, but that is all i am, curious. I hear a lot of opinions, but he would need to prove it here.

Posted by: greg | July 10, 2007 1:24 AM | Report abuse

Dude what happened to the amazing deal with Miami, where we give them JCN and in return we sign their free agent for double what anyone else would pay???

Posted by: LOL | July 10, 2007 2:13 AM | Report abuse

Are any other teams interested in DeShawn or is Ernie bidding against himself?

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 2:23 AM | Report abuse

New to posting on here, nut I've been following for awhile now. Something I don't get. Way are we afforing a 4 yr deal to a SG when we just used our 1st round pic on a shooting gaurd that should be starting fo us in the nes t 2 years. Did we not jyust do the sam thing a year ago when we signed Song. to a 4 year deal, then used our first rounf pick onPech....same type plyer, same posotion. I also finmly believe we are making a husge mistake if we do not keep Navaro. He is the real deal. Completely fundimetaly sound. Great decision maker. Will ave. good assists at the SG spot and can not be left free or will burn oppsoing teams. We have waited 4 years for this guy and he is going to be awesome for someone else. We should just sign him, and forget about DS. Then wait and see who is left on the dheap for a vet. SG. MAybe Mo Pete, or Mason, or resign Jarvis to A one year 900k contract.
Really am enjoying all the psots and look forwar to what everyone thinks. Really looking forwar to seeing our guys tomorrow night.

Posted by: surfer | July 10, 2007 2:41 AM | Report abuse

Tyrone Nesby and Awvee Storey for Kwame Brown.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 4:07 AM | Report abuse

Surfer - I am with you. DS is a decent player, but not worth the $'s we're offering. How do the rights work with JCN? Do the Wizards hold NBA rights until they decide to trade them or is it one of those deals where he would be a free agent after a year if JCN and the Wizards cannot get a deal done?

Posted by: BT | July 10, 2007 7:06 AM | Report abuse

I think a lot is going to depend on the summer games this week. I don't expect Ernie to make his choices totally based on a few exhibition games, but what if Young, McGuire and Pesh look really good? I think Andray and Deshawn look very expendable at that point. Maybe they can swing a sign and trade deal with the Mavs or Cavs for Andray. Hopefully they all look really good this week, and then we can keep JCN and get some cap room. It's been a long time since I was thinking best case scenerio for the Wiz, but I think that is a real possibility.

Posted by: CurtisLee | July 10, 2007 7:10 AM | Report abuse

I would agree with Nate. If Stevenson can't be retained at a price that would allow the Wizards to keep Navarro, why not sign Jarvis to a one or two year deal for much less (I imagine $2 million per might get it done) and sign Navarro too? Although Stevenson is a better player right now than Jarvis, Jarvis + Navarro > Stevenson.

Posted by: Sean | July 10, 2007 7:11 AM | Report abuse

Giving Blatche to the Cavs would be much worse than giving Juan Carlos away for James Posey.

Posted by: To Curtis | July 10, 2007 7:18 AM | Report abuse

900k contract for Jarvis???

And what have him sell popcorn and peanuts?

That is a riduclious offer. Lower then what a rookie is sloted at after the draft.

Cleveland doesn't have any cash to spend. It all tied up when the signed Hughes and Marshall a few years ago. Plus Lebron and Z contracts. They are not going to be stealing any restircted free agents.

Posted by: dc | July 10, 2007 7:36 AM | Report abuse

And while I'm at it time for a name change. Too many peeps use dc. Hmmmmm wonder why.

aka Pg Posse(Go West...Green and Durant)

Posted by: dc | July 10, 2007 7:39 AM | Report abuse

"Tyrone Nesby and Awvee Storey for Kwame Brown.

Posted by: | July 10, 2007 04:07 AM "

meee-ow!

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 7:42 AM | Report abuse

While I agree that EG is pricing Navarro correctly, there is NO way Navarro is going to sit out another year when he went through all of that just to get the chance to play in the NBA this year.

I am happy that EG is using this as an opportunity to take an unproven commodity (Navarro) to get rid of some of the junk (Etan) on this team. However, I am very angry that Stevenson is even sniffing anywhere close to this type of money EG is offering. It's obvious Stevenson did not and will not improve. He's going to be sitting on the bench playing 12 mpg with that ridiculous (for him) contract after this year.

To make it big time, you have to take risks. While Navarro is high risk, high reward, I think the risk is worth it with his modest contract demands.

Honestly, it comes down to Navarro and Etan, or Stevenson plus whatever EG can find. I would take Navarro. But that's just me. Let's see what he can do.

Posted by: AV | July 10, 2007 8:06 AM | Report abuse

"Giving Blatche to the Cavs would be much worse than giving Juan Carlos away for James Posey."

I agree that the Cavs are the last team we should be helpng out. But they gave Hughes way too much money and it is hurting them badly. If they want to give our 9th man way too much money because they are desperate then good for them. I didn't mean to say I wanted anyone on the Cavs specifically for Andray, but if they give him an offer that is for more than he is worth then we should use that money to keep JCN.

Posted by: CurtisLee | July 10, 2007 8:22 AM | Report abuse

I think I read that the min. qualifying offer for Hayes is 3.6m. I've read nothing about the Wizards planning on offering a one yr qualifying deal to Hayes, but I also haven't seen that they are planning on renouncing their rights either.
My quess is that the clock is ticking on the Stevenson offer, if he doesn't sign by tomorrow Grunfeld may pull the deal and offer Hayes a one year qualifying deal. And then turn his attention to Blatche and Navarro. I think the choice all along has been between Stevenson and Hayes. Ray may end up being right, Stevenson may just be crazy enough to go play for the vet min some where still thinking he's being robbed. Math apparently isn't his strong suit, he should have took the deal in Orlando, at this rate he'll never recoup the money he lost.
But, it looks like Ernie is prepared to spend about the 3.6m on one of them, and that doesn't rule out Navarro if he can make another deal that helps on the cap front. Navarro and Young could make a lights out tandom off the bench next year behind Arenas and Hayes or Stevenson. In some ways I can see the logic in keeping Hayes for one more year until JCN and Young get their feet on the ground, but I think Grunfeld realizes he needs at least one guard that is at least an average defender so he doesn't have a problem locking up Stevenson for 4 yrs.
If you look at other teams rosters 3-4m really isn't excessive for Stevenson, 5-6m is. It all depends if Stevenson's agent can talk some sense into the guy, or if Stevenson fires him and goes and plays for the min. again.
I'd agree Pecherov's performance in these summer league games will be a big factor in determining what Grunfeld does on the trade front. If the Wiz think he can step in as a rotation guy at center this year both Etan and Haywood become expendable, if he's more of a project then we'll see one or both back.
Memphis is going to be the team for us to watch, they know Gasol has an urge to play with Navarro. And watching them play last night Lowry looked really good, and they drafted Conley too. I wouldn't be shocked to see something develop between us this summer.

Posted by: GM | July 10, 2007 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Gotta keep Andray, unless they get something really good for him (i.e. trades involving someone in the Gasol/Garnett/O'Neal stratosphere). Of course, it would take a combination of Blatche, along with other players and picks, to get one of the aforementioned players, but I don't think you give up that kind of potential unless you get something very good in return. And by "very good" I don't mean cap space.

I see Blatche as the starting PF next year, with Pech at C and Jamison coming off the bench as our offensive spark. It will be interesting to see where they use Pech in the Summer League games.

Posted by: Keithinator | July 10, 2007 9:09 AM | Report abuse

As one of the posters noted earlier, it seems like Nick Young is being forgotten about in this DS scenerio. If this Young guy is able to come in and show a "little something", he should have DS's spot by Jan. or Feb.

Now if DS takes this 15 million a year contract, where does that leave us? You will now have a backup (after Jan) 2 guard making 4 million a year and a backup 1 guard (AD) making 6 million a year. That is not good fiscal spending.

I still believe this contract offer to DS is the direct cause of the "Gil Effect". None of it makes any sense. DS is an average 2 guard at best. Do you know how many Development League 2 guards have DS's same game???? Plenty of them. You can get them at less than 1 million a year.

As much as I have been talking negative on Jarvis through out the season, I must admit it is not seeming like such a bad idea to keep him for maybe two more years. As much as I hate seeing Jarvis in there (and Eddie's temptation to use him entirely to long in games cutting into other players minutes), I think it might could work with him starting at the "2" and him "keeping the spot warm" until Young takes the spot from him.

The bonus is, maybe Jarvis finds his "shot", and maybe he gets his confidence back in his knee or knees to start driving to the basket again. For all of Jarvis faults, if you ever saw him in college Jarvis had a real nice game. But college is not the pros (i.e. the Euro League is not the pro's, so Navarro might be all hype, never know)

In college, Jarvis could straight up jump out of the gym and had and still has one of the most "sweet looking releases" in the game; but they never fall. Jarvis impressed me with his defense last year against LJ, so with that said I look at DS and Jarvis pretty much producing at the same rate.

Now the the difference between these two is DS has maxed out (i.e. Etan Thomas) with his potential and production. What you see is what you are going to get the rest of DS's career, it will not get any better. On the other hand, we have not seen what Jarvis could do yet because of his injuries. He might "catch fire" with his confidence and finally become the player he was supposed to be.

Give Jarvis a two year contract for 6 million (3 million a year; very reasonable), let DS walk, keep Navarro (unless someone is willing to take Etan with him) and wait for the young pup Young grow into the spot.

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Ivan - Help a brother out. What is going on with AB????????? Still nothing in your articles or your posts? Do you already have something that you have to keep "close to the vest"??????

Why did he say he would not be playing in the summer league even if he had a signed a contract in time?????????

It has been about a week or more since you reported anything on AB???? What's the deal?????????????

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 9:30 AM | Report abuse

In my opinion we can't pencil Young in as a starter this year or in any future years until he earns it. Stockpile players, let them earn their jobs. A middle first round pick is no sure thing. Thinking of JCN or Young as a starter is just plain unrealistic.

I don't think it's fair to pile on DeShawn after the playoff performance. He was never asked to play the role he played in the playoffs and may not be capable of it. That doesn't erase the whole fine season he had as a role player.

Posted by: Patrick | July 10, 2007 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Seems pretty simple to me:
JCN & Etan to Memphis for next years first round draft pick, we get rid of Etan's big contract and pick up a high lottery pick while Memphis gets a center and having JCN on the team should make Gasol happy.
In fact, it's so simple that it probably won't happen.

Posted by: Peter | July 10, 2007 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Peter,
Under the trade guidelines, if we trade Etan, Les Boulez would have to take back some salary themselves (at least 85% of Etan's contract, or something like that), unless Memphis has a trade exception. We wouldn't have to take on any salary for JCN, since he is unsigned...

Posted by: CN | July 10, 2007 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Jarvis is not an NBA player and should not be on our team. PERIOD. DS should take the offer on the table or we should move on and give JCN part of our midlevel. We are a better team with Haywood than Etan and Etan is always hurt, so we should get rid of the Poet. Kyle Lowry IS a good player. Etan and JCN for Lowry and a 1st is a fair deal. They can lottery protect it next year and we'll take the 2009 unprotected pick. We'd have to take someone else from Memphis to make the salaries match, probably. Take whomever and cut him. The wiz with JCN at the 2 or DS at the 2 with no Etan and with Lowry at the backup 1 is a good deal. The way Ad played last year in the playoffs, someone will want him on their team. He's a very solid point if you watch his minutes and save him .

Posted by: mark | July 10, 2007 10:01 AM | Report abuse

i dont think ernie is trading jcn for cap space...the wizards are already over the cap and grunfeld said he wants a "high quality player"...well lets say they resign deshawn...what high quality player could they possibly get in return that makes less than what jcn is asking for?...i mean it pretty much leaves it to those still playing under rookie salaries and picks...so i'm thinking ernie just doesnt think navarro is that good...

Posted by: jdiggity | July 10, 2007 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Ernie G is a crafty b-ball executive. We can afford to trade JCN. We have Gil, Antwan, Nick Young, Roger Mason all perimeter scorers. This team needs young depth and Ernie G is building that with Blatche, O.P., D. McGuire. Really would not like to loose Daniels - reliable P.G. and we don't have a backup on the roster that I can - why is Ernie so ready to get rid of him. If we can get a 1st rounder and can unload Etan that is a win-win. Cap relief, opportunity to gain more young talent at a manageable price tag. Gone are the days of Bob Ferry\Wes Unseld managing this team.

Posted by: Don | July 10, 2007 10:09 AM | Report abuse

You've gotta love all the armchair GM's on this forum.

I can't recall a summer where the excitement has been so strong this early especially after such a disapointing end to the season. I have faith in Ernie, I don't believe he went to the school of "Learn how to be an NBA GM" by Wes Unseld.

I'm torn between losing Etan and BTH. I think Etan plays more inspired b'ball but BTH has legit #5 size (not skills). Also there's the issue of BTH and Eddie clearly not getting along which concerns me.

The other part that concerns me is I haven't really heard any rumors of Jarvis being moved. I agree with Mark that we have to let him go. He hasn't helped this team in years despite him being a nice guy and all.

I'm pumped up about summer league which I believe is broadcast on CSN (tape delay).

Posted by: Juan DC | July 10, 2007 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Why doesn't Etan waive that kicker? He'd be a fine power forward, the problem in DC is that he's playing out of position.

Posted by: lance_steel | July 10, 2007 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Mark-
Why do you feel that jarvis is not a NBA player.If you instruct jarvis to play like Ds2, he can easily have the same success. Make Javis our defensive minded guard instruct him not to shoot unless he is wide open. Make him understand just because you have a nice looking jumper, it does not go in the basket. So make your game defense and play off that aspect. Jarvis is a NBA player and a good defensive player but he has problems with bigger and stronger forwards. The biggest problem although is Jarvis confidence and confidence in is body. Also the added presure he puts on his self to be this great offensive threat.(he should let it go and concentrate on defense and then his offense will come slowly,but dont push it).
Another problem is that Eddie allow Jarvis to shoot to much, but I understand that because wwhen gil and carron went down we needed another scoring threat. But I think that was wrong because of Jarvis's mind state, also Deshawn is just not good enough offensively.
Therefore I have a problem with DS2 at 4 mil per year.This will be a bad contract for the Wiz in the next year or 2. I would much rather have Jaris at 2 mill for 2 years(in the correct mind state). Neither one will be starting after next year anyway.

Posted by: d square | July 10, 2007 10:47 AM | Report abuse

How does dealing Etan solve the Haywood/Jordan rift??

Ernie CAN'T let talent like JCN go to rivals Miami or Cleveland!!!

Keep JCN and let Stevenson sign another 1 year deal either here or elsewhere...

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 10:50 AM | Report abuse

How does dealing Etan solve the Haywood/Jordan rift??

Ernie CAN'T let talent like JCN go to rivals Miami or Cleveland!!!

Keep JCN and let Stevenson sign another 1 year deal either here or elsewhere...

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 10:50 AM | Report abuse

How does dealing Etan solve the Haywood/Jordan rift??

Ernie CAN'T let talent like JCN go to rivals Miami or Cleveland!!!

Keep JCN and let Stevenson sign another 1 year deal either here or elsewhere...

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 10:50 AM | Report abuse

I don't think it's fair to pile on DeShawn after the playoff performance. He was never asked to play the role he played in the playoffs and may not be capable of it. That doesn't erase the whole fine season he had as a role player.

Posted by: Patrick | July 10, 2007 09:39 AM

Patrick - I agree with you all the way, but as you noted "That doesn't erase the whole fine season he had as a role player". That's just it, "ROLE PLAYER".

With the Wizards "cap problems" they can not afford to pay DS almost 4 million a year to be a "role player". I would like to keep DS on the team, but at only 2.5 million at the most.

I made that post based on what DS's was asking for "contract wise" and not on his performance during the year. I think he did a great job and I like his game, but not at that 4.0 million price tag.

Posted by: Mikie | July 10, 2007 10:51 AM | Report abuse

So, are we going to have Haywood in the house again next season? This team holds so much promise, so he had better man up and hold his own! Sounds like Etan will be gone, if we are lucky. Then there are no excuses for Brendan!

Posted by: aramey1 | July 10, 2007 10:58 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't be surprised to see Memphis tender Blatche an offer and then the two teams will start talking.
I'm wondering if Ernie's playing any poker on the side in Vegas or if he's getting enough high stakes action on the phone. Couple of weeks ago no one thought he had anything to attract anyone to talk to us. Now it looks like we're a player in some possible wheeling this summer.

Posted by: GM | July 10, 2007 10:59 AM | Report abuse

The Ernie love here is unbelievable... To the extent that there are flaws with the Wiz, he is to blame as much as anyone in the organization. He also deserves as much credit as anyone for their successes...This see no evil hear no evil slobfest is more than a bit much..."admitting his faults..." Shoot we almost signed LHughes and we are about to do the samething with D Stevenson. DS is not a shutdown anything and in two years we will be trying to trade him because Young and/or Navarro will be superior defensively and offensively.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 11:03 AM | Report abuse

I also would love to see the wiz second unit(Not Starters) have all first and second year players.Pg Lowry, Sg Young, Sf Mcguire, Pf Blatcahe, C Pesh. Thats a nice group that you can build with. Also,I think Ernie trade request is 100% point. Trade Etan,AD and JCN it's best for us. I would keep Darius for the 11th spot and when we need that old reliable vet at certain situations, but not generally to dependent upon him.
Question is although is brendan a starter on a championship team or a bench player?I would try to get defensive minded Tyson Chandler from the NO for bredan.

Posted by: d square | July 10, 2007 11:05 AM | Report abuse

i think EG should offer memphis JCN and ET for Mike Miller and a 2nd round pick

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Clock winding down in the 4th, we're up or down by our usual 3 points, and again we're trading baskets and Free Throws. That's how our games and most NBA games finish up.

The difference between a playoff team and a lottery team is getting to the basket in the 4th Q and hitting the FTs.

Daniels gets to the hoop, gets fouled, and hits his FTs. He's a legit 4th Q option. That's worth the money.

DS doesn't have that game. Neither does Jarvis. Nick Young is a rookie who will not see the 4th Q for 2 years.

JCN might - but EG's scouted him and has an opinion. If he's shopping JCN, perhaps EG doesn't think he can deliver in an NBA 4th Q.

Thomas can't hit the FTs and he commits sloppy 4th Q fouls with all his energy. Regardless of his intensity energy, he's a 4th Q liability, AND and salary cap liability. He's really really got to go.

EG is trying to build a 4th Q team. EJ wants to play guys in the 4th that are not liabilities. AD has gotta stay. Etan has Got to go. OPEC and DSong need to step up. DS is neither a liability nor a help.

JCN, Young, rehabbed-Jarvis, AB are all unknown quantities, untrustable 4th Q options and EG can't build a 4th Q team around unknowns.

All of that is why EG is shopping JCN to get rid of Etan. It's why he would consider a semi-legit 4th Q defender like Posey in return. Its why he signed DSong (hits FTs), It's why he'll be OK with DS (a proven non-liability). It's why he isn't too concerned right now with AB's contract, and it's why he gave AD so much money to start with.

Posted by: Cballer | July 10, 2007 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Jarvis is not an NBA player and should not be on our team. PERIOD. DS should take the offer on the table or we should move on and give JCN part of our midlevel. We are a better team with Haywood than Etan and Etan is always hurt, so we should get rid of the Poet. Kyle Lowry IS a good player. Etan and JCN for Lowry and a 1st is a fair deal.

Posted by: mark | July 10, 2007 10:01 AM

Mark - I totally understand what you are saying here with Jarvis. Trust me, if you look at some of my past posts during the season and after, you will see that I am not one of his biggest fans as a basketball player either, however the guy seems to be a good guy off of the court, locker room guy, and someone you would root for to succeed.

The man has one of the best looking "j's" in the league but again he can never hit with it (major problem). What changed my mind a little about Jarvis was the defense he played on LJ in the playoffs. You don't need a whole lot of confidence to play defense like you do with offense.

By Jarvis playing the way he did, it proved to me his offense must be mental, because when you play defense you do not worry about if I can make this move, will my knee hold up, is my "handle" on the left as good as my right, etc....

With defense you just react to what your man is doing. What I am saying is, if Jarvis is able to continue to play good defense (you need to have the physical attributes to do this), he might gain some confidence and his offensive game will come around.

I have to disagree with you that Jarvis is not a NBA player. Now, if you want to say Jarvis is not "mentally ready" (i.e. still lacking confidence in his knees) to be a NBA ball player I can agree with you; but trust me the dude is definitely physically ready to be a good NBA player (i.e. I know, I know, Kwame Brown is physically ready too, and look at him).

I just feel if DS walks (clearing space with the MLE to sign Navarro and maybye another player) that would give us Jarvis, Young and Navarro competing for the starting 2 spot. You let Jarvis start, play his good defense and be the 4th option and if he finally "gets it" that will be one heck of a starting five.

However, if he continues to be ths same old Jarvis you sit him and bring in Young and see what he can do. I saw him a little to in college and he kind of reminds you of a bigger Larry Hughes (so Patrick don't sleep on the middle round 1st rounder).

Guess what if the young boy is not ready, you bring in Navarro. You have "three" scoring threats at the 2 vs. 2 threats or only 1 (DS signs MLE, there is not enough left for Navarro, Jarvis does not resign and we are left with DS and Young as our 2 guards). I do not like that scenero.

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 11:16 AM | Report abuse

etan probably isn't going to waive that kicker because he knows this could possibly be the best contract he gets in his career. with his tendency to miss half a season each year, and his lack of size at center or lack of skills at pf, there's no way he can expect to receive a 7+ mil contract offer in the future. especially since he'll be 32 when this current contract expires.

Posted by: JC | July 10, 2007 11:18 AM | Report abuse

We should keep Blatche, he's only a kid out of HS (1st year is a mulligan since he was shot) and last year w/ EJ pulling his strange substitution patterns, how was he going to learn to play in game situations? You're gonna let the most talented PF on your roster go like the Bullets did w/ Sheed years ago just b/c you think you have enough depth at that position. Not smart to give him up way too early, big guys take so much longer to develop and grow into their bodies.

Arvis' D wasn't even good last year just b/c you saw him play some spot minutes on LeTravel doesn't mean he'll get exposed by quicker 2 guards not a 3 like LeTravel is. He doesn't have quite the movement or position defense of DS2.

"Stevenson is a FA who plays a limited role for which it would be easier to find a replacement at less than his asking price. You don't pay $15 mill dollars to a SG who can't create his own shot and misses wide open jumpers (shooting 20% from the field) in playoff games."

When exactly did DS2 have wide open jumpers during the playoffs w/o the Big 2? How would he be wide open w/ only Jamison being an offensive threat on the floor? He struggled w/ the pressure of trying to be a primary scorer when he was signed to be a 4th or 5th scorer. You obviously weren't watching the Wiz games if you thought he was wide open.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Ivan - What's up with AB and his contract???? Thanks....

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 11:39 AM | Report abuse

I've been a Bullet/Wizard fan a very long time, my pop would take me to playoff games all the time in the late 70's early 80's, so don't what I'm going to say as if I'm not a fan. Everyone seems to put so much trust in Mr. Grunfeld. It's a few things that gets under my skin about this man/GM.
Grunfeld 1. Last year when you knew we needed help why would draft a player that you knew was not going to help the team " THAT YEAR ". That said I love what the kid is doing now. 2. He's never won a chip.... 3. This is what know one says he traded Dirk Nowitzi to Dallas for Robert Traylor aka Fat baby Tractor WHAT THE $%#%#$##$@$^$#....... He's about to do it once again with JCN, you know why about 9 other teams want this kid " CAUSE HE CAN PLAY " and your goal is to keep Mr. No Show in the playoffs come on Mr. Grunfeld you stuck to your guns wit the 12 million deal not a penny more No one want the guy. (hint hint) JCN right now is a better player than No Show he would beat him out in camp with who help our bench. In closing Mr. Grunfeld don't make the same mistake you did with Dirk, don't trade a soon to be star for a tractor again not unless its and Gay than a all bet are off. LOL

Posted by: Kevin | July 10, 2007 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Mikie, D-Squared, I was a jarvis fan a couple years ago but my problem is this... When you come out of college and the scouting report says that you can shoot jumpers but have no handle, you oughtta be working on your handle. I understand that he was hurt but he's still the same one dimensional player he was 3 years ago. All you have to do to guard Jarvis is crowd him and he'll either look at a spot on the floor 2 steps away, dribble to it and shoot or he'll just pull up immediately. I'm fine with him not being able to score, even. ..If he played good defense. I have to admit that he does try and has some good games. I just can't see committing to a guy who plays below average one dimensional offense and average defense. He's been given quite a few chances but now it's time for him to go. I hung in there with Calbert Cheaney for a while and won't make that mistake again. When a guy is average, we need to admit it and move on. I respect you guys' opinions but I just think we have better options.

Posted by: mark | July 10, 2007 11:59 AM | Report abuse

With Memphis under the cap we wouldn't HAVE to take 85% back. They'd still want to send something to make sure they had room to keep adding players though. Stro Swift has an expiring deal and would be great in this system. Lowry would be the great get. he's a nice fit as a backup PG because he brings ball pressure, speed and playmaking. He could play next to Gilbert in spots too.

But I'd rather watch Navarro in a Zards uni if they can make that happen.

Trade AD and a throw in to the Clippers for Maggette. Clips need help at PG with Cassell almost done, Livingston down and Jared Jordan not ready for prime time. Maggette would start here and allow Ernie to pay Navarro instead of Deshawn.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 10, 2007 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Arvis' D wasn't even good last year just b/c you saw him play some spot minutes on LeTravel doesn't mean he'll get exposed by quicker 2 guards not a 3 like LeTravel is. He doesn't have quite the movement or position defense of DS2.

Posted by: | July 10, 2007 11:38 AM

Unknown Poster. Again, just like Mark and another poster stated you guys are exactly right. But again, as I keep trying to stress here, If DS2 was asking for 2.5 million or 3 mill at the most, no problem.

But noooooooooooooo!!! The man is asking for more than 4 million dollars for 4 years!!!!! He will not even be starting next year anyway!!! (Translation: 4 million sitting on the bench complaining about his minutes; do we want that scenero???) He is not a 4 million dollar a year ball player, simple as that.

As for Jarvis, he is the fall back plan if DS2 takes a walk. He can probably be had at 3 mill a year for 2 years. Now that is a good deal on someone who already knows the system and still has potential. His upside is way greater then DS's will be anytime.

As for the primeter defense, you are right. Jarvis will have problems with quicker 2 guards, but I did not see DS "clamping down and playing in your chest defense either" on these quicker 2 guards. DS is no Mike James or Linsey Hunter......

Lastly, I have to disagree with you on the amount or lack there of "wide open looks" DS had in the playoffs. The games I looked at He had a "TON OF THEM" and he missed every one.

This was his contract year and he did not deliver as well as Jarvis. But guess what, the Wiz like the both of them; but it will come down to who is cheaper.......

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Interesting post CBaller. You hit the nail on the head with the Wiz free throw woes. I like your thinking that EG is trying to build a 4th qtr finishing team. I honestly can't remember the last time I felt confident with a one or two point lead with under a minute to go in the game.

These guys are supposed to be pro ballers and you can't have Etan shooting 56% at the line, BTH shoot 55%, and Ruffin 37% and expect to close out games. Hopefully the gym rat mentality that Pesh and Gil have will rub off on some of these guys this off-season?

Posted by: Juan DC | July 10, 2007 12:09 PM | Report abuse

I think we have too many people on our roster and it's time for some people to go, anyway. I have a feeling that McGuire is gonna be getting some major minutes by next year. This dude is a natural SF and can handle the ball, too. He reminds me of a tougher Joe Johnson minus the jumper. How's a 2008 lineup of Gil, Caron (i'm convinced he should be at the two), McGuire, Blatche, Pech, Nick Young, Songaila, Haywood, JCN, and . That makes us a legit 10 deep team. Either Blatche or mcGuire needs to learn how to shoot, but that shouldn't be too difficult. With Pech shooting from outside, we still have 3 starting perimeter threats. I'm all for

Posted by: mark | July 10, 2007 12:11 PM | Report abuse

If we deal with Memphis, a good trade would be Etan, Daniels, Navarro for Miller and Warrick.

Deal works salary-wise.

Etan, Daniels, Navarro

for

Miller, Warrick

Posted by: Darnell | July 10, 2007 12:17 PM | Report abuse

If we deal with Memphis, a good trade would be Etan, Daniels, Navarro for Miller and Warrick.

Deal works salary-wise.

Etan, Daniels, Navarro

for

Miller, Warrick

Posted by: Darnell | July 10, 2007 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"I personally think that DS is a pretty good fit for the team, and the team performed pretty well with him in it. OK, aside from the playoffs. But everyone (on the wiz) struggled this year in the playoffs."

I agree, Greg. But you have to look at why Stevenson is a good fit and why he struggled. He's a player with limited skills, but the makeup of the team around him served to minimize those limitations and maximize his strengths. When the makeup changed with the absence of Arenas and Butler, his deficiencies were laid bare. And those deficiencies are why he's not worth $15 mill. When the team was whole, DeShawn filled his role quite well. But that role was so narrow and limited that it doesn't require a guy making $15 million to fill it. For that kind of money, he should be able to do more than he does.

"Something I don't get. Way are we afforing a 4 yr deal to a SG when we just used our 1st round pic on a shooting gaurd that should be starting fo us in the nes t 2 years."

Couldn't agree more, surfer. People are complaining about Thomas' and Daniels' deals, but how will Stevenson's deal look in a year or two, when he's a 20 mpg backup (if that)?

"I don't think it's fair to pile on DeShawn after the playoff performance. He was never asked to play the role he played in the playoffs and may not be capable of it."

That's exactly why it is fair, Patrick. If he's not capable of stepping up in the playoffs and shooting better than 20%, then he shouldn't be getting legit, starting caliber NBA SG money. He should be getting paid like the limited role-player he really is.

Posted by: kalorama | July 10, 2007 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Mikie,
Please don't think I'm a DS fan. He's ok for 3.5 mill a year but I think we should let DS go and keep JCN. That would be my first choice. I'd even be ok with letting DS go and trading JCN for Lowry and a nice pick. Like I was saying in a previous post, all we need from our 2 guard is good D and the ability to hit the open J. Our 2 guard is the 4th option offensively. It's actually the perfect situation for a rookie. Nick Young (or anyone for that matter)should be able to step into that spot and get experience. Next year, they should have enough confidence to step it up if we decide to let Jamison go. Andray is skinny and may never fill out. He might even be able to handle the 2 on this team. (though i recognize that he can't shoot, he CAN handle the ball for a tall guy) It's a stretch but with Haywood behind him guarding the basket, it may work. Any thoughts on that ?

Posted by: mark | July 10, 2007 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Kalorama.
Everything you said makes perfect sense. I'm with you !

Posted by: mark | July 10, 2007 12:25 PM | Report abuse

"You obviously weren't watching the Wiz games if you thought he was wide open. "

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. He had several open looks and bricked most of them. And that's not even counting the missed layups from his attempts at driving the ball to the rim.

He got open jumpshots and couldn't sink them. He got to the basket and couldn't finish. And he failed to stop anyone on the Cavs on defense. And that's worth $15 mill? Don't think so.

Posted by: kalorama | July 10, 2007 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Mikie-
I just threw-up my lunch.Dont start with the Kwame Brown stuff please. Jarvis and Kwamee are in the same boat mentally. Jarvis has a confidence problem although. Jarvis Hayes went to Geogia Univ.,a divsion 1 university. Kwame Brown cant pass an entrance exam to UDC, let alone a divsion entance exame. LOL( NO DISRESPECT TO OUR BELOVED CITY COLLEGE). KWAME BROWN propably cant pass an entrance exam to Wilson HS. LOL He would have to move back within the school zone to get in. LOL
KWAME BROWN FUTURE IS LISTED:
JUNE 2008 CUT BY THE LAKERS.
JUNE 2009 AFTER NOT BEING ABLE TO PLAY ON A NBA TEAM. KWAME BROWN CALLS ESPN AND TELL THEM THAT HE PLANS ON TRYING OUT FOR THE ALASKA NATIONAL TEAM. WELL ESPN INFORM HIM THAT ALASKA IS PART OF THE USA AND HE HAVE TO TRY OUT FOR THE TEAM USA. KWAME BROWN INSTANTLY HANG UP THE PHONE. 2 MONTHS LATER HE CALLS A PRESS CONFERENCE TO INFORM EVERYBODY HE IS STARTING A NBA BIG MANS BASKETBALL CHAMP, IN GA. 2 MONTHS LATER AT THE FIRST DAY OF CHAMP KWAME WALKS IN AND HE SEE 10 12YEAR OLD KIDS. KWAME JUST LOOK AT THE KIDS FOR ABOUT 5 MINUTES AND SAYS "DONT BE LIKE ME" WALKS AWAY AND BECOME A GROUNGS KEEPER AT THE LOCAL GEORGIA MENTAL INSTITUTION. LOL

Posted by: d square | July 10, 2007 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Kevin,

Dirk for Traylor was not Grunfeld's deal. Please see this:
"It turned out to be one of the final moves of the Ford regime, as he was replaced by Karl two months later. Bob Weinhauer, general manager at the time of the deal, remained in his position for one more year before departing. Ernie Grunfeld has taken over that position."
http://www2.jsonline.com/sports/buck/nov00/bucksid18111700.asp

Posted by: Sagaliba | July 10, 2007 12:49 PM | Report abuse

1. I'd like to get rid of Etan AND Haywood, but Haywood obviously has more skills and size.

2. Stevenson's contract is chump change for a starting SG.

3. If don't REALLY need JCN. We need a better front court presence, so if we can get rid of Etan's contract along with JCN then this is one of EG's best moves to date. And it's practically a freebie for us. Plus, I don't think EG wants any part of Unseld's history (drafting JCN).

4. Is it possible that we got the best 2 players out of this year's draft? It's not over yet and I know it's a stretch, but Nick is going to be a stud and McGuire looks like an absolute steal.

Posted by: Alex | July 10, 2007 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Personally I would rather see Young, Pech(& JCN if we sign him) get DS2's minutes. I don't hate Stevenson or think he is worthless, I just think that those guys can be the 4th option and play at least average defense for cheaper than DS can. Also it is more likely that those two will improve with more time, were DS is as good as he is going to get. Regardless of my opinion, Stevenson came here on a 1 year deal to play himself into a fair contract, which is exactly what Ernie has offered him(if not more than fair). If he doesn't like the current offer he can walk.

Posted by: CurtisLee | July 10, 2007 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Kevin,

Every GM makes at least a few mistakes (or more like Wes) but it's their major body of work that shows their skills. "The Logo" Jerry West is considered one of the best GMs out there but he took Gooden in the draft (w/ Amare and others still on board) then quickly gave up on him for scrubs. I'm sure he's given some ugly contracts to more than few busts during his time, etc. And with all that being true, just about every owner would like West to run their teams. Ernie has had some very good moves and a few bad ones too but overall his record is very successful. Coming from Ferry, Bickerstaff, and Unseld, our trust in Ernie is explicit.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Come on Ivan or Michael,

What is up with Andre? It is just too odd that he has not been mentioned in the press. No one is saying anything and I fear that no news is not good news. Tomorrow is the 11th and I have not heard that he was even offered a contract. They are only talking about Deshawn and earlier EG had said that signing him was a priority. What's up with that? Prying fans want to know.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 1:25 PM | Report abuse

"2. Stevenson's contract is chump change for a starting SG."

Agreed, Alex but so many are obsessed with JCN that they are think badly dismissing DS2 is warranted to put JCN on a pedestal.

Choosing either JCN over DS2 to sign (since we apparently can't sign both) is fine and dandy but again saying that even a limited starting SG making $4M is too much is plain silly. Any of y'all who thinks it's too much find a vet starting SG making $5M or less? Guess you couldn't find one huh? Here come the excuses..

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 1:32 PM | Report abuse

"Stevenson's contract is chump change for a starting SG."

For a legit, starting-caliber SG, sure. But Stevenson's not a legit starting caliber SG. He's a starter for the Wiz out of necessity and circumstance. He's not a player most GMs, given an open unlimited choice, would actually prefer to have starting for them. Just like Haywood and Etan, he's a backup quality player pressed into starting service because of lack of options.

"Agreed, Alex but so many are obsessed with JCN that they are think badly dismissing DS2 is warranted to put JCN on a pedestal."

Can't speak for anyone else, but I am not the least bit concerned with whether Navarro stays or goes because I think most of the hype surrounding him will end up being deflated. And I'm certainly not in favor of simply "dismissing" Stevenson. he fills a specific role on the team and does it well. But that role is (A) not so vital nor (B) so hard to fill that it's worth paying him nearly twice what he's actually worth and tethering the team to another overblown contract just to maintain some ambiguous sense of "continuity."

Posted by: kalorama | July 10, 2007 1:39 PM | Report abuse

mikie and other posters worried about AB, from the Times over a week ago:

"Because Blatche is a restricted free agent, the Wizards are allowed to match any offer he receives. That gives the team more flexibility, and it is unlikely the Wizards will match an offer right away. Instead, they will let New Jersey's offer sit there and see whether any other team is interested in Blatche before making a decision."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070701/SPORTS03/107010057/1005&template=nextpage

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 1:39 PM | Report abuse

People keep trotting out the word "starter" in conjunction with Stevenson's name like it implies or confers some kind of special status or skill. It doesn't. There's a qualitative difference between being "a starter" and being a "starting quality player." Stevenson is nominally the former, but even a cursory look at the holes in his game suggests he's not the latter.

Posted by: kaloram | July 10, 2007 1:42 PM | Report abuse

^keywords above: will let offer sit there before making a decision. so that's what EG is doing.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Why the EG hatin'?

The man is very good at what he does and makes solid solid decisions 95% of the time. For our draft positions this year, I have a strong feeling that we probably did as well or better than anyone else in the draft!

Look at Blatche from two yrs ago. The guy in 2/3 more years is going to be 22/23 yrs old and a poor man's Kevin Garnett. He has the potential to be an all-star and he was SNATCHED by EG late in the second round ala McGuire this year. He is just a solid GM. Maybe not above criticism, but, still, would you rather we had Unseld running the team? Actually, I don't know if there are more than 2/3 guys in the NBA I would take over EG.

Posted by: Rob P | July 10, 2007 1:48 PM | Report abuse

too bad we can't get MJ to start for us again at $1M!

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Why the DS hatin'?

The guy plays solid defense on a team that plays NONE. He's tough and he knocks down the open looks.

So what if he has holes in his game - i.e. can't carry a team as a primary scoring option - no duh!!! How many 1 million dollar player's can?

As for his recent contract offer and value in the market. Come on. If Jason Kapono is worth 20+ million, then DS is definitely worth 15 million. As absurd as it can be, the market is the market!!! EG is smart enough to know that JK and others were grossly overpaid and he is offering fair value. The balls in DS's court.

I think he signs for 17 million.

Posted by: Rob P | July 10, 2007 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Exactly CurtisLee, The guy came here on a cut rate deal for the chance to earn a fair contract. Look around at other rosters 3.6m is about what alot of reserves are making that aren't in their rookie deals.
I wouldn't go higher than the deal on the table, Ernie leaked that offer so we'd all know what Stevenson was walking away from if he goes. The clock is probably ticking on the final 24 hrs. of that offer. If Stevenson walks then Grunfeld may take a look at offering Hayes a one year tender.
All of the guys that keep saying that we can get another shooting gaurd cheaper,Who?
I can't come up with one, and Eddie Jones isn't going to come here and play in a new system at his age. Considering that guys like Steve Blake(I know he's a point and not a 2) are looking for 6m and he has suitors, I'm just not sure what's out there for 2.5m.
And if Young beats him out that's not a problem, you have two guys battling for a position they play harder. And Worst case scenario we trade Stevenson instead of getting nothing. I think someone said on here before,"there's no such thing as an untradable NBA contract." So we end up with something instead of nothing.

Posted by: GM | July 10, 2007 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Anybody know what happened to Donnell Taylor? Is he playing on another summer league team? Any interest in resigning him?

Posted by: Ballariffic | July 10, 2007 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Mark - I am in total agreement with you except the $3.5 mill for DS? He should be getting 2.5 or 3.0 mill max. I have a feeling Mr. Young is going to make us soon forget all about DS. I think Young's game is just like Larry Hughes game was when he first came into the leage with Philly. Watch and see what I am talking about today @ 4:00 p.m. on NBA TV.

No disrespect to DS though. He is a individual contractor trying to land the biggest contract he can get. I am not mad at him and I totally like his game; but that is as a substitute and not starter.

He is the perfect compliment to the big three, but if we can get even more offense on the floor (i.e. Young or Navarro) with the same results on D, I am with it.

Lastly two things are happening here. Either Ernie sees some flaws in Navarro's game and is not all that convinced on him, or he wants Etan gone really bad.

Thus he wants to "strike" while the iron is hot and unload Etan with Navarro while interest is still high for Navarro.

It strikes me how odd it is EG is not willing to trade Haywood (even after the incident after the last game), yet he is doing everything in his power to unload Etan (Eddie's boy) at any cost. Things to make you say Ummmmmmmmmp!!!!

I think Ernie believes with a decent starting 4 and Haywood manning the middle they will be alright. Like DS, Etan has maxed out on what he can do. What you see is what you are going to get.

However, like Jarvis; Haywood shows "flashes" sometimes. If either one of them could figure out how to channel those "flashes" into something positive every game, look the heck out. DS and Etan don't have those kinds of flashes. Again, they are what they are.

I think Ernie wants to remove Etan as a option to Eddie and force Eddie hand at playing Haywood. Which I am perfectly "cool" with. As I have said many times before, Etan, Ruffin and Jarvis are left in games way to long by Eddie which takes away minutes from AB, Haywood and other guards.

However, I am willing to give Jarvis one more "short run" to see if he has it together yet (if DS walks). That will give Young and maybe Navarro, if he is here, time to seize the 2 spot. But if Jarvis finds his "real game" that would be a bonus for the Wiz.

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I told ya the excuses would be coming! Proved my point kaloram.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Paying players based on their playoff performance inevitably makes for bad moves. The playoffs are about match-ups. Factor in the fact that 2 All Stars were down, it becomes even more questionable. The Cavs have 2 good to very good perimeter defenders in Pavlovic and Hughes, neither of which had to worry about Caron or Gilbert.

Tim Thomas is one ballooning example of what happens when you value one month of basketball, or in DS's case 4 games, over a full season's performance. GMs can't allow recency to blind them, or be blind to the details that I've mentioned.

3.75 per, where the offer currently sits, is low for a starting 2 with his production. Thats fact. its closer to a reserve putting in 8-9 a night (Rasul Butler, Fred Jones). It would neither cripple us in the short term or the long term. We're not paying him like a starter anyway, so should Young overtake him he'd be an appropriately priced reserve or valuable chip to move. I know this is the Wizards but it is OK to have a solid bench folks.

The bigger savings can be had by moving Daniels and replacing that 6 mil per over 3 more seasons with a backup making half that, Brevin Knight, Jason Hart and Jannero Pargo come to mind. It simply WAY too much to pay a guy who, if Gilbert hadn't gone down, would have played 15 minutes a night.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 10, 2007 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Come on Ivan or Michael,

What is up with Andre? It is just too odd that he has not been mentioned in the press. No one is saying anything and I fear that no news is not good news. Tomorrow is the 11th and I have not heard that he was even offered a contract. They are only talking about Deshawn and earlier EG had said that signing him was a priority. What's up with that? Prying fans want to know.

Posted by: | July 10, 2007 01:25 PM

I am with you unknown poster. I have the same feeling you have. We keep hearing about Navarro and DS but no AB. I am not "feeling this" right now.

Yo Ivan. Do you have something yet???????

Posted by: mike | July 10, 2007 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Hell to the no in regards to Donnell Taylor! The guy is a turnover or missed jumper/layup waiting to happen. D-League at best... I'm glad we're not hearing anything about him.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 2:14 PM | Report abuse

thought I saw Blatche in the video from the summer league practices... 7/7 edition I think.

Posted by: JJ | July 10, 2007 2:18 PM | Report abuse

The bigger savings can be had by moving Daniels and replacing that 6 mil per over 3 more seasons with a backup making half that, Brevin Knight, Jason Hart and Jannero Pargo come to mind. It simply WAY too much to pay a guy who, if Gilbert hadn't gone down, would have played 15 minutes a night.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 10, 2007 02:06 PM

Johnny Boy if your scenero could happen I am then fine with keeping DS at that 15 million contract over 4 years, because we removed a hefty contract in AD (although I do not want to see him go, because I love his game).

But once again, I am basing what I am saying about DS on the "CURRENT CAP SITUATION" right now with the Wizards. They can not afford 4 mill a year for DS who is not a real starter. Kalorama explained it perfectly what DS is.

As for Rob P's comparisons about what Kopono got on a contract should not have anything to do with what DS shoud be getting in my opinion. Their games are completly different. People will pay more for shooting specialists all of the time.
And guess what, that is Colangelo who offered that deal.

Isn't he the same one who picked the talent for the Suns team that is so dominant right now? I think he has a nose for talent and if he felt he had to offer that to Kopono, we might want to take notice.

So DS is fooling himself if he is comparing what he does and what Kopono does. This is an apples and oranges case hands down.

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Mikie,

Why do you assume NY or JCN are going to play defense or give you the same results as DS on D? I can almost guarantee you NY is not, at least not in his rookie year. And I doubt JCN will either. I have only heard stories about a nice offensive player with good leadership qualities.

So, again, your devaluing DS.

Do you want to start 5 offensive players with NO D at all? Has that strategy ever won anything significant?

Get rid of JCN and Etan's nasty contract and get some toughness/defense in return. I think Arenas, Butler, Jamison, Nick Young, Pecherov, Songalia, Blatche can provide plenty of offense.

There are some other important things not being mentioned here that need to be considered. 1) Arenas is really good friends with DS. If you want Arenas to stay, perhaps you make sure to sign DS.
2) JCN is the key to dumping Etan's contract (one of EG's biggest mistakes), which in turn frees cash to sign Arenas and others in the future.

Posted by: Rob P | July 10, 2007 2:23 PM | Report abuse

"Andray is skinny and may never fill out. He might even be able to handle the 2 on this team. (though i recognize that he can't shoot, he CAN handle the ball for a tall guy) It's a stretch but with Haywood behind him guarding the basket, it may work. Any thoughts on that ?"

Posted by: mark

Mark, actually AB can shoot the jumper quite well but his confidence was somewhat shot with EJ's screwed up substitution patterns (or lack thereof) but he definitely isn't quick enough to play the 2. Another thing, he's long and lanky so he doesn't look to carry much weight but last we heard he was around 240 or so at 6'11". He just needs to get stronger up top so he can bang in the post. Try not to do too much on offense (like being a point forward) just playing with energy, rebounding, and defense with consistent 20 mins/game (hint hint EJ) he should be very effective while learning how to play the pro game better.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 2:28 PM | Report abuse

JJ, I think Ivan or someone may have mentioned that Blatche was there the SL workout just checking out the action on the sidelines, not participating.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

DS vs. Kapono

Apples vs. Oranges?

DS started all 82 games last year averaged 11.6 pts and played solid defense while shooting 46%.

JK played in 67 games off the bench averaged 10.9 points per game while shooting 49% with almost no defensive game whatsoever.

To say DS has no argument based on JK's contract is ridiculous!!!!

Posted by: Rob P | July 10, 2007 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Sagaliba, for correcting the record on Ernie Grunfeld at the Dirk trade. And it is not a matter of putting Navarro on a pedestal.
The high praise many of us have for him is warranted or do you think dropping 30+ on the U.S. at the World Championsips, winning the Euroleague MVP and European championships doesn't mean anything. Come on! This guy is a better player than D-Stevenson right now and is good enough to start. Offering Stevenson a 4-yr. deal, when you have Nick Young and could have Navarro doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Part of this to me looks like Grunfeld trying to show Gilbert that he made an honest effort to resign Stevenson.
The chemistry of this team and the ability to resign does not hinge on keeping this guy and as such there is absolutely no reason to give him a 4-year deal. Besides Gilbert already likes Young and once he plays with La Bomba he will love having a guy like that in his backcourt.

Posted by: George Templeton | July 10, 2007 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Ivan:
A couple posters above have mentioned Donell Taylor, and that's a good question. Does the fact that he is not on the summer league team mean that he is not an option to be brought into camp this year? Could you ask what the team's plans are for him? I, for one, thought that he improved a lot this past season.

Posted by: Sean | July 10, 2007 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Rob P, you add very valid points about DS2 but some just keep discounting him. Starting SG, takes best perimeter offensive player on D without fouling, 11ppg without jacking up shots, great rapport w/ Gil, knows his role, etc =~ 3.75M/year is more than reasonable and easily tradeable asset if and when Young does seize the job.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I hope DS gets frustrated w/ his contract and takes another one year vet-min deal. That would be perfect because It would give us a year to see how Young develops. If he develops properly, DS status will be weaken on the Wiz. It will also give us much more cap room.

Posted by: Terpin It | July 10, 2007 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Can we all agree that whoever is starting at the 2 is SUPPOSED to be giving us good defense but probably won't ? Young certainly won't. His rep is college is that he plays no D. Since we aren't gonna have a stopper out there we should at least have a guy who can make defenses pay for doubling Gil or Jamison or Caron. We're built to score and should do so. Take a look at this link that I found regarding defense...
http://www.hoopsworld.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi?archive=39&num=6237
REALLY interesting stuff.

Posted by: mark | July 10, 2007 2:43 PM | Report abuse

do you think the wizards should trade JCN, haywood or etan, and jarvis for Camby to automatically upgrade their frontcourt and their defense?

Posted by: billy | July 10, 2007 2:46 PM | Report abuse

I vote we go all offense circa 1980's Denver Nuggets. The Suns have 2 guys that play a little D (Bell and Marion). We have Haywood. All we need is one more guy that plays a little and we're kissing the cup! Seriously, though...Phoenix is about to prove that you don't have to win championships by a 82-73 score. While San Antonio has been really successful doing things their way, I say we do it our way. (or the Suns way). Give me the good offensive player over the average offensive player if both have marginal defense.

Posted by: mark | July 10, 2007 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Quibble about starter versus non-starter all you want, the numbers remain the same.

NBA players who score what he scores at those percentages make around 4 million per season. The Kapono comparison is out o fline IMO because kapono shot freakin 515 from 3 point range. Thats a specialist. On the other hand, Carroll barely shot better from 3pt range and worse than DS from inside the line.

Starter versus non-starter doesn't change the fact that the going rate in the NBA for guys like Deshawn, whether its Fred Jones, Rasul Butler, Willie Green, or "starters" like Anthony Parker, is around 4 mil.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 10, 2007 2:50 PM | Report abuse

George Templeton, it could very well work w/ JCN and Gil but two 6"3'ish starting guards in your backcourt might really redefine the Wiz's lack of defense (if that's really possible)... lol

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 2:50 PM | Report abuse

JCN should be signed cuz he has much more upside than DS. It would be fun to have JCN on the team with the other new players (Pech, Young) and Wiz would win more games than DS gives them.

But Wiz will take the safe route:

Sign DS

Trade JCN in order to dump The Poet.

Sign Antawn long-term, forgetting his age.

Sign Arenas for the max or close to it.

And that's about it. No money for much else and .500 teams for several years to come.

A safe, middle of the pack strategy.

At least Wiz will let Jarvis go and his 40% shooting, and lose Booth too. $1.8 million for what? Visser can play 3 forgettable minutes a game as well as Booth.

Posted by: Ed | July 10, 2007 2:59 PM | Report abuse

"I told ya the excuses would be coming! Proved my point kaloram."

Wouldn't that require you to actually have one?

Posted by: kalorama | July 10, 2007 3:02 PM | Report abuse

"Starter versus non-starter doesn't change the fact that the going rate in the NBA for guys like Deshawn, whether its Fred Jones, Rasul Butler, Willie Green, or "starters" like Anthony Parker, is around 4 mil."

With the possible exception of Parker, every one of those guys you listed is overpaid for what they provide and would likely be dealt in a heartbeat by their current teams for cap relief. Why should the Wizards be obligated to copy other teams' mistakes?

On the flip side, Bruce Bowen a player with a role similar to Stevenson's, whose better and more valuable to his team, has a 4 yr/12.25 mill contract. Does anyone really think Stevenson is more valuable to the Wiz than Bowen is to the Spurs?

Posted by: kalorama | July 10, 2007 3:14 PM | Report abuse

A few counterpoints to what I just read:

1. DS is better than all those players you mentioned as being "like" DS.

2. Depending on needs Kapono is a slightly better shooter, but, again, DS has the D. Is Kapono a one year wonder as far as shooting % is concerned? Would not be the first time it happened. He is not surprising anyone this year!!!

3. "at least have a guy who can make defenses pay for doubling Gil or Jamison or Caron"

- lol...are you kidding? we should have a fourth scorer for when our third scorer is doubled or something like that? I did not even know you could double that many guys!!! How about passing??? I know it's not a strong suite of ours, but it works.

4. The Suns have Amare (good rim defender), Marion(one of the top defenders in NBA and most versatile), and Bell (outside defender) who can all can clamp down on D. The Wiz have only DS whom you would instantly identify as a higher caliber defensive player. Butler is improving though. However, NOBODY is guarding the rim for the Wiz or stopping Jamison/Arenas from getting abused!

5. Terpin It, are you smoking something? If DS is frustrated with his contract offer and signs a below market one year deal, IT WILL BE WITH ANOTHER TEAM!

Posted by: Rob P | July 10, 2007 3:19 PM | Report abuse

DS' value: DS shot around 50% while the big three were healthy. Not many shooting guards in the league can match that. The only way to get more offense from the position would be to take shots away from Gilbert, Caron, or Antawn. On the other hand, DS needs the Wizards at least as much as the Wizards need him. Kapono can contribute to any team, no problem. DS is only at his best when playing within the Princeton offense, which is only used by a handful of teams in the NBA. Supply and demand says that DS should be paid less than Kapono.

DS as a starter: There's no guarantee that JCN or NY will be able to learn the Princeton as well as DS. Letting DS get away would be a major gamble.

Team need: We need a center that can play the Princeton like Vlade did for the Kings. Brendan and Etan aren't getting it done. I thought that Euro big men were supposed to be good at passing and shooting. How about picking up Darko or trading with Atlanta for Zaza and see if they can learn the system?

The beauty of the Princeton offense is that it's different. We can take players who are ill-fitted (and therefore underpaid) to playing on most NBA teams and use them to create a contender. The only other way to build a championship team starts with winning the lottery.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Anon I am not sure it is possible for our backcourt defense to get much worse.
The reason I am so much in favor of getting Navarro is this. The only way the Wizards can better at defense is to get better at offense. What I mean is that if the Wizards can be a more efficient team at the end of the floor they will have more energy at the defensive end of the floor. And how do we get more efficient.
For starters, having someone like La Bomba running the offense and Gilbert playing the 2. Gilbert can bring the ball up the floor and is a good passer, but he can't run a team and he will miss a lot of opportunities to get other people involved, sometimes because Gilbert decides to take the shot himself and some times because he passes it to the wrong person (our brick handed big men or Arvis as an example). As good scorer as Navarro can be, he is better at running a team, specifically at getting the ball to a player in the best possible position to score. And if Eddie gets fresh blood in the frontcourt and gives them a chance (I am talking about O-Pec, D. McGuire and Blatche) we may find ourselves with a much better offensive unit than we ever thought.
As for what you said Ed, I fear you could be correct.
However, Grunfeld has gambled before as a GM (the Sprewell trade, drafting T.J. Ford in the lottery are two of the ones that look good). And my hope is that the only reason we have heard zip about Jamison is that Ernie is trying to get a big deal done and doesn't want any sunlight ruining the chances for it.

Posted by: George Templeton | July 10, 2007 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Mark, that statistical analysis article is great and all EXCEPT he's comparing teams using regular season wins/losses. We all know both teams and refs play and call games differently between regular season and playoffs.

Look at how San Antonio or Miami played during the last 2 years they won. They didn't have the best records or were super amazing in the regular season but when the playoffs started, it was different. They turned up the defense and their offensive execution was more focused on the matchups not who averaged what during the season. You have to have a good enough defense to carry you when your team is slumping or a great defensive team you're playing against shuts you down in the critical 4th quarter.

Defense is consistency whereas offense is dynamic w/ peaks and valleys. What happens when you've hit one of those valleys playing a tough defensive team and they're scoring on you since your defense is not so good? You lose!

The Wiz have offense is spades but need more toughness and effort on defense to really compete with the San Antonios.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Kalorama,

I like the Bruce Bowen comparison, but just bc BB is on a better/championship caliber team does not make him a better player (could cause his contract to be discounted along with his AGE). BB is a slightly better defender and DS is probably a slightly better offensive player.

Very similar. So 15 million for 4 yrs is in the ballpark for DS like I've been saying. Acting like this is an atrocious amount to pay him is silly.

Notice DS new contract if signed expires the same year as NY's rookie contract. So, you can keep NY at that point as your starter and dump DS if you have to.

Posted by: Rob P | July 10, 2007 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Deshawns numbers two years ago(his last in Orlando) and last year in Washington are almost exactly the same. Only his 3 point shooting showed a huge change, positive or negative. He is the exact same player that turned down Orlando's offer. Now he has a deal for a little more money for putting up the same numbers, sounds like a good deal for him.
Nobody is falling over themselves to sign Deshawn. I am not a Kapono fan, but look how fast he got an offer. I haven't heard any other teams interested in DS this year besides us.
Again I am not trying to bash Deshawn, but how can he be worth anymore money when he put up the same numbers and nobody else wants him?

Posted by: CurtisLee | July 10, 2007 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Don't understand the Princeton Offense/Supply and Demand argument. DS had his breakout year for Orlando, which is not a Princeton offense team.

Cheers to our Bigs having bricks for hands!!!

Defense wins championships is not one of the all-time sports cliche's for nothing! IT'S TRUE!

Posted by: Rob P | July 10, 2007 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Curtis Lee,

Who said he is worth more? I said 15 million is fair. I don't think he has declined or accepted the offer yet.

I just want a defensive minded player more than say JCN especially if we get something decent in return.

Are there enough basketballs/shots for Arenas, Butler, Jamison, JCN, Nick Young and the gang?

How many perimeter offensive players does one team need? I think we're covered!

Posted by: Rob P | July 10, 2007 3:45 PM | Report abuse

You're not bashing him, Stevenson fits this team best in what he offers so it's good for both parties. Kapono fits more teams cause more teams need scorers or more accurately shooters to space their offense out. Toronto has Bosh in the post causing havoc, they don't want defenses collapsing on him. Kapono is San Antonio's Brent Barry.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 3:46 PM | Report abuse

I meant Kapono is Toronto's Brent Barry. lol

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 3:48 PM | Report abuse

I did say at one point that DS does have an argument when he looks at Kapono's newly signed contract that he is worth more. But, that contract is overpriced and will be regretted.

15 million is fair and I think he gets one more bump to 17 to seal the deal.

Posted by: Rob P | July 10, 2007 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Giving a guy money based on a value set by someone else got us into trouble with Juwan and Etan. We were smart by not matching the value other teams placed on Larry Hughes as well as Jared Jeffries. Same goes for Jim McIlvaine (i pulled that one out of my arse but it's true). We are in a position to set DS's value and should give him more than what Orlando offered but much less than what Kapono got. We're bidding against ourselves. His value has never been lower. The deal on the table should be the most we offer. unless.....unfortunately we are in position where we have to kiss Gil's butt to make him happy. Mister 50 is his buddy so who knows what'll happen?

Posted by: mark | July 10, 2007 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Rob P, I think CurtisLee was saying that this offer of $3.75M/yr vs $3.3M/yr with Orlando is a bit more when the years are very similar. EG is showing some class and loyalty to DS2 for playing with great effort for just the vet minimum. He is allowing DS2 to save face making the offer a little more than Orlando's offer that DS2 declined last year.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Still haven't seen that list of guys just lining up to play 2 gaurd at less than what the qualifying offer for a three year vet would be(3.6m). Considering that an average of 3.75m for Stevenson doesn't seem to be breaking the bank.
People have complained about our D-league bench and our lack of depth. As of today if Stevenson and Hayes are both left go we'd have two players without a minutes experience in the NBA as our top two choices at the two gaurd. And that's if we sign Navarro, I'm sure if we lowball Stevenson that will make a BIG impression with Navarro's agent.
There's something to be said for rewarding a guy that played for a bargain basement deal and contributed to the team. Add what Stevenson made this year to a 4 yr 15m deal and it comes in at 3.2m average for 5 yrs. Just about what Bowen makes for the Spurs.
If we're not going to pay a bench we'll never have a bench, and in this league you have to develop depth to win. Speaking of the Spurs look at how quickly they moved to give three of their role players new deals.
This team's year went in the toilet because we had no depth when we played most of the 2nd half with two of our big three down. 4 yrs. 15m isn't too much to pay for a solid rotation guy in this league. If somebody can offer a better choice for the money, I'd like to talk about them.
Signing Stevenson to that kind of deal doesn't limit our ability to sign Blatche at all. And it doesn't mean that Navarro isn't going to be here either, all of this just has to play out. But lowballing a solid team player isn't the way to start and I'm glad Grunfeld has made Navarro a fair offer

Posted by: GM | July 10, 2007 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry I thought people were saying he is worth more. I totally agree with you the offer is fair for both parties. The best thing for the whole team is probally to sign DS (but for no more than what is offered now)and trade JCN. I haven't seen him play, but it seems like Navarro is worth more as an asset than as a player if that makes sense. He hasn't play a game in the league yet and his value seems really high on the market. A lot of people on the board are real high on him though.

Posted by: CurtisLee | July 10, 2007 3:57 PM | Report abuse

sweet! gametime...

and the online feed has announcers now..

Posted by: hmmmmm | July 10, 2007 4:06 PM | Report abuse

George Templeton, I really wish our defense couldn't get any worse even though sometimes it seemed so. But watching 98% of the games the last 3-4 years, I can definitely tell you DS2 played better D at the 2 than anyone manning that spot. He wasn't at Bowen or Bell's level but he still did pretty well considering the matador at the 4 was never any help (as a big, that's huge).

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 4:10 PM | Report abuse

mcguire is looking good early. very active. scored all their pts...
pech likes to shoot.. ;-)

Posted by: hmmmmm | July 10, 2007 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Anon DS was an ok defensive player in my view, not as good as we thought he was going to be. In a perfect world, we would keep him and JCN and tell Arvis to get out of here. A five guard set of Gilbert, Navarro, Young, Daniels, and Stevenson would leave us set there. It just appears that isn't possible (particularly if Stevenson continues to believe he should get the full mid-level and a 5-year deal).
I hope my damn tivo works tonight so I can watch the Wiz's summer league game tonight after work.

Posted by: George Templeton | July 10, 2007 4:15 PM | Report abuse

I forgot to ask on my last post: Anyone think DS2 has already agreed to the offer, but Ernie is holding back the announcement in case it hurts our JCN trade leverage?

Posted by: CurtisLee | July 10, 2007 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Rob P,

kapono's main job wasn't to play d, it was to shoot the 3. which he did better than anyone else in the league. DS did not play d better than anyone else in the league.

and that's besides the point. read any article out there about the kapono signing and every single one will say that toronto grossly overpaid for him and made a mistake in that department, no matter how much they needed out shooting.

unfortunately, defense doesn't work like shooting. if you team needs better outside shooting, it only take one player to come in, shoot 50% form three, and you have a better shooting team. but on defense, even if you have the best defender in the league at the sg spot, there's still 4 other guys on the floor to defend (unlike say a great defensive big man, who keeps guys from driving and empties out the lane.

do i think stevenson is worth 3.5 mil? sure. 4 mil? barely. the full mid-level? hell no. before offering him anything higher than 4 mil per, we should look into some other vets out there, like mo pete, posey, matt barnes, eddie jones, derek anderson...

or some young guys the dahntay jones (even though he's a dukie) or smush parker...

Posted by: JC | July 10, 2007 4:21 PM | Report abuse

I think the summer league game is going to be aired on Comcast at 8pm tonight

Posted by: Joe | July 10, 2007 4:22 PM | Report abuse

speaking of Bell on the Suns, he has similar holes to his game but he starts at the 2 and Barbosa comes off the bench even though he is certainly more talented and capable of starting at the 2. JCN or NY would be our Barbosa at least for this year.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Rob P. Once again. I am not talking down about DS. I am not comparing his game to Kopono. I used Kopono as an example because you and DS camp used his contract as an example.

I just stated they are two totally different players and Kopono is more of a long range scoring specialist. For that reason, he was offered a "crazy" contract. So please stop saying sense Kopono got 20 million 15 million is more then reasonable to offer DS. No it is not. If Toronto overpaid for someone, that does not mean they have set the market.

How many times do I have say I have no problems with DS game, but at 15 million and the Wizards present cap situation, I feel we could get past with Young and Navarro. We have the 2nd round pick who is very good at man to man defense and way less the cost. Slide him in there since you think we will have not any defense once DS is gone.

When we first started this subject I had already mentioned about 5 posts ago Gilbert and him were boys. That is why I kept saying it the "Gil Effect" getting him this contract offer.

Kopono's contract keeps being thrown up by you, and to me their games are totally different so I do not even know why the DS camp is even trying to compare them. That is why I said "apples and oranges".

Kopono is a really a "3" playing "2" anyway. DS is a pure "2" guard, so I do not confess to compare the two. Again, I used Kopono because you used his contract as an example.

For the record, I still say 15 or 17 million is way to much for somebody that will be coming off of the pine by next season anyway. No disrespect to DS, but as I have said over and over; he is what he is??

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Nobody here is saying he is worth the full MLE (~$6M)! Just too many think EG is stupid offering $3.75M to him. Kalorama is lining up at EG's door to take his job since he obviously knows he's better than EG.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 4:28 PM | Report abuse

anyone else watching the game online right now?

they're talking to eddie jordan right now. just yapping about mcguire and young (gilbert's connection with young, pech's development from last season, etc)

Posted by: hmmmmm | July 10, 2007 4:32 PM | Report abuse

and that's besides the point. read any article out there about the kapono signing and every single one will say that toronto grossly overpaid for him and made a mistake in that department, no matter how much they needed out shooting.

unfortunately, defense doesn't work like shooting. if you team needs better outside shooting, it only take one player to come in, shoot 50% form three, and you have a better shooting team. but on defense, even if you have the best defender in the league at the sg spot, there's still 4 other guys on the floor to defend (unlike say a great defensive big man, who keeps guys from driving and empties out the lane.

Posted by: JC | July 10, 2007 04:21 PM

Thank You JC. This is all I was trying to say. I wish I would have saw this before I made my last post. I would not have had to do the post then.

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 4:32 PM | Report abuse

i say let's bring Mike Martz back to teach Jason Campbell his 5th offense in 5 years b/c we THINK it'll fit his skill level better and maybe even save a buck or two? while we're at it, let's overhaul the WR core, they're getting old and sore on the eyes...

There is something to be said about continuity even if all y'all piss it out the window!

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 4:35 PM | Report abuse

didn't realize caner-medley was on the kings roster. had a nice assist on a fast break


then proceeds to shoot an almost airball before any help is under the basket..


they finished the interview with EJ asking about navarro. he didn't comment too much about it, basically what we already know. joked about how that was all on ernie's plate ('that's for the GM to worry about').... oh how i wish i could hear that line from the skins coaching staff.. *sigh* :-/

young seems to fall back on the release of his shots

Posted by: hmmmmm | July 10, 2007 4:42 PM | Report abuse

"I like the Bruce Bowen comparison, but just bc BB is on a better/championship caliber team does not make him a better player"

I never said he was a better player because he's on the Spurs. I said (A) he's a better player on (B) a better team. I never implied a cause and effect between the two. But the fact remains, he's a better player (esp. in the given role they both perform) than Stevenson.

People keep bringing up Stevenson's defense as a major asset. How many all-defensive teams has DeShawn been on? Because Bowen's been on 7, including last season. So given that DeShawn isn't anywhere close to Bowen's class as a defender, and he's offensively subpar for a starting SG ... well, you know the rest.

Posted by: kalorama | July 10, 2007 4:44 PM | Report abuse

i'm watching the game. NY just knifed through the air and +1. I like how this kid moves

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Where can I find this online feed again?

Posted by: The Owl Wizard | July 10, 2007 4:45 PM | Report abuse

"kapono's main job wasn't to play d, it was to shoot the 3. which he did better than anyone else in the league. DS did not play d better than anyone else in the league."

Thank you, JC.

Posted by: kalorama | July 10, 2007 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 4:49 PM | Report abuse

"...every one of those guys you listed is overpaid for what they provide and would likely be dealt in a heartbeat by their current teams for cap relief. Why should the Wizards be obligated to copy other teams' mistakes?"

Thats the NBA salary scale. What do you think these people go by? Thats reality in the NBA. You say he is overpaid, in one sense they all are. In the realm of the NBA marketplace they aren't.

Those guys were free agents and the market determined their price. Its eery that way. We're not talking about Speedy Claxton getting the full MLE from the desperate Hawks. As for Etan or Jeffries, they were both given the full MLE. Most overpaid players are so because they either got the Max (Bibby, Marbury etc) or the full MLE (Brent Barry, Daniels). None of the players I mentioned fall into that category. The 2 players EG is trying to deal do though. Its not a coincidence.

Bowen is a terrible example. Role players with rings take pay cuts to get more rings. In Phoenix's case to chase them (Jalen Rose, Grant Hill). Those players didn't determine their market value in free agency unless you tihnk the market value for Hill's 16 points, assits, rebounds etc is really the veteran minimum.

They sacrifice money for a chance at a ring. Thats how the Spurs pay Bruce Bowen more than Michael Finley.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 10, 2007 4:58 PM | Report abuse

News Flash. DS better hurry up and sign that 15 million dollar contract. Our 1st and 2nd round picks are looking good, and guess what?

They both play the "2"............... Mr. Young has some "showtime" with his game and Mr. McGlore (spelling???) is a hustle machine with in your chest defense.......

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 5:00 PM | Report abuse

I forgot to ask on my last post: Anyone think DS2 has already agreed to the offer, but Ernie is holding back the announcement in case it hurts our JCN trade leverage?

Posted by: CurtisLee | July 10, 2007 04:19 PM

You might be right Curtis... if so i think its part of the larger issue why we aren't hearing anything about AB either. Ernie's probably got something up his sleeve that he's working on and doesn't want to mess it up by losing a perception of leverage.

Posted by: Dante | July 10, 2007 5:04 PM | Report abuse

I would love it if we could just dump etan onto memphis for a 2nd rounder. Would give us the room to sign JCN and we would have a very nice roster deep with talent at every position. And with the way ernie picks in the 2nd round...

Posted by: Dante | July 10, 2007 5:06 PM | Report abuse

"...every one of those guys you listed is overpaid for what they provide and would likely be dealt in a heartbeat by their current teams for cap relief. Why should the Wizards be obligated to copy other teams' mistakes?"

Thats the NBA salary scale. What do you think these people go by? Thats reality in the NBA. You say he is overpaid, in one sense they all are. In the realm of the NBA marketplace they aren't.

Those guys were free agents and the market determined their price. Its eery that way. We're not talking about Speedy Claxton getting the full MLE from the desperate Hawks. As for Etan or Jeffries, they were both given the full MLE. Most overpaid players are so because they either got the Max (Bibby, Marbury etc) or the full MLE (Brent Barry, Daniels). None of the players I mentioned fall into that category. The 2 players EG is trying to deal do though. Its not a coincidence.

Bowen is a terrible example. Role players with rings take pay cuts to get more rings. In Phoenix's case to chase them (Jalen Rose, Grant Hill). Those players didn't determine their market value in free agency unless you tihnk the market value for Hill's 16 points, assits, rebounds etc is really the veteran minimum.

They sacrifice money for a chance at a ring. Thats how the Spurs pay Bruce Bowen more than Michael Finley.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 10, 2007 5:07 PM | Report abuse

If we deal with Memphis, a good trade would be Etan, Daniels, Navarro for Miller and Warrick.

Deal works salary-wise.

Heck, I'd even include our 2008 1st round pick to make it happen!

Etan, Daniels, Navarro, 1st round 2008

for

Miller and Warrick

That would be a sweet trade!

Starting lineup:
Haywood, Jamison, Butler, Miller, Arenas

Bench:
Blatche, Pecherov, Songaila, Warrick, McGuire, Stevenson, Young

Posted by: Darnell | July 10, 2007 5:09 PM | Report abuse

What a shot!!!! Did you see McGuire's shot. Start him at the 2 spot........

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 5:13 PM | Report abuse

dude, that's a crappy trade offer ... why do we need Warrick (another SF)

Posted by: Anonymous | July 10, 2007 5:14 PM | Report abuse

i think mcguire will be coming off the bench as a 3, not a 2..

Posted by: hmmmmm | July 10, 2007 5:16 PM | Report abuse

"Bowen is a terrible example. Role players with rings take pay cuts to get more rings. "

That argument doesn't really apply on a number of counts.

(A) Why players take pay cuts is irrelevant, because no one is suggesting Stevenson takes a pay cut. He played for 900K last season. A contract starting at $3 million would still be more than 3 times what he made last season. So I fail to see what "pay cuts" have to do with anything.

(B) Stevenson is, without question, a role player. But he's not as good or effective in his role as Bowen is in his. So there's no qualitative reason why Stevenson should be making more.

(C) The argument that players take pay cuts to play on better teams only supports my point. The Wiz are a playoff team looking to build toward contention. (Even if they're lucky, it'll take next 2-4 years, the term of Stevenson's proposed contract, to get there.) The only teams that would even likely consider paying him more than $12 mill/4 yrs. would be the lotto teams forced to pick through the FA leftovers at the end of summer. So by your own reasoning, the Wiz should have the upper hand, because they're a better team than most of the ones that would (hypothetically) even consider paying him more to pry him away.

Posted by: kalorama | July 10, 2007 5:19 PM | Report abuse

The point of making a team take Etan is to clear his cash from the cap. So its better to be a smaller deal for a younger player and/or expiring contract. They have Damon Stoudamire and Conley plus they're getting Navarro. They are taking on Etan's trash of a contract too, so they aren't going to take Daniels. Too much trash going one way. Warrick duplicates what we already have enough of. Miller, I don't see them giving him up, I could be wrong.

Etan and Navarro for Stromile Swift (expiring and the money works) and Lowry or another player and a pick is probably best. Swift comes off the books this summer and Lowry in insurance if Gilbert walks, plus he can handle more minutes than AD or play along side Gilbert some.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 10, 2007 5:33 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Swift's contract is expiring, it seems as if he has a player option for the '07-'08 season for $7M+, but he would be off the books then. Given his mediocre play, he would probably pick up the player option for an additional year... We'd still get rid of Etan though and Swift may provide some nice athleticism on the front line

Posted by: CN | July 10, 2007 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Mikie,

Can you please refrain from making comments about the game as some of us want to watch it tonignt on Comcast.

Posted by: Lisa | July 10, 2007 5:51 PM | Report abuse

"I don't think Swift's contract is expiring, it seems as if he has a player option for the '07-'08 season for $7M+, but he would be off the books then."

Sorry, but I meant '08-'09 season

Posted by: CN | July 10, 2007 6:01 PM | Report abuse

"That argument doesn't really apply."

(a/b)Technically it does and its the single reason Bowen makes what he makes (less than market value) for the team he plays for.

Bowen makes less in exchange for Rings. He chose to take less than market value. That doesn't change market value for everyone else.

(c) Teams vets take pay cuts to play for TITLES, not playoff berths. The only teams that get away with that are:
Detroit (Webber)
Phoenix (Jalen Rose, Grant Hill)
Miami (Eddie Jones)
San Antonio (now Oberto, Bowen, Finley)

3 of 4 are recent title holders. I'd put Dallas on that List but they pay EVERYBODY.

Washington is not on that list. You can't argue them onto that list. Cleveland was in the finals and vets aren't lining up to play for the minimum there either.

If I was a veteran shooter I'd be tempted to get all the open looks that AJ, Caron and Arenas create. Wishes from fans aren't relevant.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | July 10, 2007 6:16 PM | Report abuse

This is like the longest Wiz blog ever. :)

Looks like Navarro broguht some attention to it.

Maybe EG should take some notice. :P

"Can you please refrain from making comments about the game as some of us want to watch it tonignt on Comcast."

You know we love you Lisa. Cranky as ever. ;)

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | July 10, 2007 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Ray, this is the longest Wizards blog....I almost thought I was on the Redskins Insider....and I'm not cranky.....just want to see the game for myself :)

Posted by: Lisa | July 10, 2007 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Sorry about that Lisa. I got ticked off when I found out they blacked it out on NBATV. So I could not wait until 8:00 p.m. so I went online and looked at it.

Enjoy the game......

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Yo Ivan. This is a very long blog. Are you working on any new stuff for us??? Like some AB news?????????????? Thanks...

Posted by: mikie | July 10, 2007 6:51 PM | Report abuse

I guess they blocked it out on NBATV since Comcast is showing it.....

Posted by: Lisa | July 10, 2007 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know if there is going to be a replay of this game on ComCast at after SportsNite at 1 a.m.

Posted by: George Templeton | July 10, 2007 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Here is what will happen. Stevenson will sign with us fro no more that $4 million a year at 4yrs. The remainder of that mid-level exception will go to JCN; if, and only if Ernie does not get an offer that he isbeleives helps us immediately! No need to trade for future picks. We already have them in O.P. Young, McGuire, Blatche, and again JCN if a trade is not done.

Blatche wil be resign, no question about that. I still beleive that Haywood is being shopped as well as Etan. One will be back next year and it will most likely be Haywood because he is a better fit than Etan, just on pere size alone and the slight prescene he brings to the rim for blocks. Haywood, howevere, is soft. Always has been, always will be. My fear howevere is that if Etan is not there then there is no motivation for Haywood to produce-he will think we has arrive because he is still there and Etan is gone.

Who knows Haywood in the next couple of weeks could ask for a trade and that will change everything.

A.D. will be back, but if Haywood demands a trade then you will see a possible Haywood, sign Jarvis and trade both.

EG is just using JCN as leverage to see what offers he can get, but recognizes that this is probably the best he can offer to get what we really need now-a center who gives you 12pts, 10+ rebounds and 2-4 blocks a game.

Posted by: The ArmChair GM | July 10, 2007 9:55 PM | Report abuse

((1)) Arenas of course stays. Daniels should and I believe he will.
((2)) Stevenson will stay. He is much more than a role player. Young will take some work but will definitely play. Since you never know what Ernie's up to until he does it, I've got Navarro pencilled in, but don't really expect to see him as a Wizard.
((3)) Butler of course stays. McGuire looks like he'll fit. Blatche?
((4)) Jamison of course stays, despite several protests here. Songaila, an incredible pickup, also stays. Need to see more of Pecherov.
((5)) Actual survivor is a toss-up, and becomes a dead man walking.

So Ernie's immediate pool consists of Navarro, Haywood/Thomas, Hayes, Mason, Ruffin, and Booth. One solid player in return for any part of that roster would be a coup. (Having been a fan since '72) I'm hoping Ernie will decide we need time to make sense of the current squad before going seriously into the market, but I'm thinking the need for post/defense may force him to do something more dramatic. Pick whoever you think _can't_ be traded, add him to the mix, and pick someone who'll get us through the Conference Semis.

Posted by: Bill Carr | July 10, 2007 11:38 PM | Report abuse

"Detroit (Webber)
Phoenix (Jalen Rose, Grant Hill)
Miami (Eddie Jones)
San Antonio (now Oberto, Bowen, Finley)"

Webber, Rose, Jones, and Finley didn't take pay cuts. They took buyouts of their contracts with their former teams that paid them $10s of millions. Whatever they got in FA, was tip money. In the case of Finley, he got the full MLE which is the most anyone esle would/could have offered him.


"Washington is not on that list. You can't argue them onto that list. Cleveland was in the finals and vets aren't lining up to play for the minimum there either.

If I was a veteran shooter I'd be tempted to get all the open looks that AJ, Caron and Arenas create. Wishes from fans aren't relevant. "

Neither is your repeated reference to "pay cuts" and "the minimum." Three mill a year isn't a "pay cut." It's a 300+ percent raise above the minimum, which is what he played for last season. And what he'll likely be playing for again next season if he's foolish enough to reject the wiz's current offer, as has been rumored.

And while Stevenson may well be a veteran, he's not a shooter. Before this season he was one of the worst shooters in the NBA. Last season was lightning in a bottle. The odds of him repeating that are slim at best.

Posted by: kalorama | July 11, 2007 12:30 AM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company