Hayes: Another Former Wizard in Detroit

Happy to see Jarvis Hayes finally find a job somewhere - especially with a contender. He signed a one-year deal with the Detroit Pistons, where he is expected to backup Tayshaun Prince and Richard Hamilton.

I'm not sure how it will work out for Hayes in Detroit, since Prince and Hamilton play heavy minutes and the Pistons already have high expectations for rookie Rodney Stuckey and third-year swingman Amir Johnson. But considering the career trajectory of past players who spent time in Washington before winding up in Detroit (Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace and current Chicago Bull Ben Wallace), this might not be such a bad move. Of course, Chris Webber's time in Detroit didn't have such a special feel about it. Oh well. Good luck, Jarvis.

If it does work out for Jarvis in Detroit, no one can really get upset because it just wasn't happening for him in Washington. It's Nick Young's time now anyway.

I've had the pleasure of knowing Jarvis since he was a junior at Douglass High School in Atlanta and I've followed his career through two colleges (Western Carolina and Georgia) and with the Wizards. Before he was drafted, I never saw him making it to the NBA, but he worked his tail off to get here. He's always been a real, humble, down-to-earth person, a nice, "yes, sir/no, sir" kind of guy who never seemed to be caught up in the NBA life - with the exception of a few nice cars and some flashy jewelry he purchased before his rookie season. I remember someone telling me how they sat next to him once on an AirTran flight and had no idea he was in the NBA until he reluctantly let it slip. I was more impressed that he was a millionaire looking for cheap airline deals. And how did he fit into those seats? But I digress.

I know as sportswriters, we have to be objective, but there are some people that you generally like to see have some success - which made it especially hard to see Hayes's career in Washington finish the way it did. Hayes had a promising rookie season, showed some flashes as a fill-in for Larry Hughes his second season and earned the starting nod at shooting guard before his third season, but he could never get over that fateful kneebump with Manu Ginobili in February 2005; the one that caused his kneecap to split completely after a dunk in a game against Sacramento later that month.

That unfortunate knee injury robbed him of practically two seasons. He took the high road for what seems to be a poor diagnosis by the Wizards medical staff after the initial fracture. But with his inability to improve from his rookie season and those consistently good looking but off-target jumpers, Hayes never could find his stroke, never could justify Eddie Jordan's faith in him last season. Eddie stayed in his corner, sometimes to a fault. Afterall, Eddie drafted him after falling in love with his jump shot at his pre-draft workout.

The Wiz had high hopes for him entering last season, even slotted some money in expectation of signing him this summer, but after Hayes had his worst season as a pro, they didn't even bother to give the guy a qualifying offer.

Now both of Jordan's picks from the 2003 draft (remember Ernie was hired after that draft) - Hayes and Steve Blake - are gone. This follows the past two summers, which has seen Wizards first-round draft picks from 2001 (Kwame Brown) and 2002 (Juan Dixon and Jared Jeffries) leave town. Know what that means (beside the fact that Wizards don't have much to show in terms of developing its draft choices the past couple of years)? It means that every player on the Wizards roster has either been drafted or signed by Ernie Grunfeld. (I know some of you are thinking, "Brendan Haywood and Etan Thomas were acquired by Michael Jordan," but Grunfeld made them his players by signing both to contract extensions before the 2004-05 season). With Hayes and another Jordan favorite Michael Ruffin out, this really means that Jordan is truly coaching Grunfeld's team.

Based on some of the comments about the Navarro trade, I realize of number of readers think that Ernie should've gotten more the the guy than a first round pick, but you have to consider the move a victory for the Wizards for one huge reason: It likely keeps Pau Gasol in Memphis - and away from the grasp of Chicago or any other Eastern Conference contender. By helping the Grizzlies hold onto the Gasol by giving him his best buddy, the Wizards may have helped themselves more than any other move they've made this summer.

By Michael Lee |  August 17, 2007; 11:02 AM ET
Previous: Navarro trade details | Next: Blatche deal done


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Jarvis is a good guy. He deserves a second chance, and I hope he makes Les BouleS regret not being patient with him.

Posted by: DC Man88 | August 17, 2007 11:17 AM

Usually works out for ex Les BouleS in Detroit. Anyone remember the names Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton?

Posted by: DC Man88 | August 17, 2007 11:18 AM

I think we showed enough patience. Nice guy, but the dude was made of glass.

Posted by: AndNone | August 17, 2007 11:25 AM

I like that EG signed DeShawn instead of falling in love with JCN like everybody else. Apart from keeping Gasol away from Chicago, it ensures that for the first time the Wizards start a season with the same backcourt as the previous year. No adjustment/learning period needed.

Posted by: Bart | August 17, 2007 11:33 AM

This is a very good post, Michael.

What concerns me about Grunfeld is what you've noted -- if he didn't pick a player, he doesn't keep him. There are some good players on the list of guys he let go. Seriously, check out this team: Blake at PG, Hughes at SG, Stackhouse at SF (and Luol Deng with the pick sent with Stackhouse), seperated-at-birth Juans Dixon and Navarro off the bench, Jarvis, Jeffries, Kwame, I'm sure there are others. Interesting that the good players he let go tend to be smaller players, and the two he kept from the previous regime are centers.

Anyway, this truly is Grunfeld's team, as you point out. He signed every player, and he signed every coach, including Jordan. He bumped O'Malley out the door (maybe ... when are we going to get the full scoop on that?), so it's his organization. Conference finals, he gets the credit; one and done and he gets the blame.

Posted by: Sean | August 17, 2007 11:33 AM

i dont get this Les BouleS thing...could u explain it to me...sounds pretty gay to me...unless i'm not understanding right...so could u please elaborate on what that alludes to

Posted by: jason | August 17, 2007 11:49 AM

I'm sorry it went down like this but I'm glad Jarvis is gone. He was trying so hard to get back after his injuries it was hurting the team most nights. I say this even though I wanted him to get his old form back and get over the hump.

But after he split his kneecap, he seemed to stop driving to the basket and just settled for jumpers. Part of what made him exciting to watch in his first two years was the way he filled lanes on the break and exploded at the finish.

The last two seasons, he was chipping the paint off the rim despite his best efforts.

I wish Jarvis much success in the future, just not against the Wiz!

Posted by: iceberg | August 17, 2007 12:01 PM

We're all sad to see Jarvis go, but it just didn't make sense to keep him. Good luck to him in Detroit with all of our other former players.

Posted by: Adam | August 17, 2007 12:09 PM

Les Boulez (a crude translation of The Bullets into French) was a nickname given to the team curteousy of Mr. Tony Kornheiser. He started using the phrase "the Curse of Les Boulez" in his articles during the team's lean years in the '90s.

Posted by: sk | August 17, 2007 12:11 PM

I'm not mad that EG traded JCN for a first-round pick. I'm mad that we'll probably never get the pick because of the way it's protected.

Posted by: John Bragg | August 17, 2007 12:11 PM

"What concerns me about Grunfeld is what you've noted -- if he didn't pick a player, he doesn't keep him. There are some good players on the list of guys he let go. Seriously, check out this team: Blake at PG, Hughes at SG, Stackhouse at SF (and Luol Deng with the pick sent with Stackhouse), seperated-at-birth Juans Dixon and Navarro off the bench, Jarvis, Jeffries, Kwame, I'm sure there are others. Interesting that the good players he let go tend to be smaller players, and the two he kept from the previous regime are centers".

Are you kidding me? Letting Jeffries, Hughes, and Kwame go were brilliant moves by EG. Each one has proven to be a complete and utter financial disaster for thier new team.

Dixon has turned out to be a middling journeyman. He hasn't embarrassed himself anywhere, but he hasn't exactly proven that letting him walk was a mistake.

Blake is the only guy that I regret letting go. But Blake wanted to go because he wanted an opportunity to be a starter. I can't fault EG for letting him go.

Making the tough choice to let a guy walk is an underrated aspect of being a good GM. Anybody can make a big splash with a fancy trade a la Isiah Thomas. But the key to running a good team is knowing when to cut bait. EG gets little credit for letting Hughes and Jeffries walk, but they're arguably his best as a GM (other than the acquisition of Arenas).

EG has been rock-solid. His only major mistake has been the resigning of Etan Thomas to that ungodly contract.

Posted by: nate33 | August 17, 2007 12:12 PM

"Before he was drafted, I never saw him making it to the NBA, but he worked his tail off to get here."

That's telling right there.

"I'm mad that we'll probably never get the pick because of the way it's protected."


This and EG's intent was to sign another player(not Navarro) just to make Gilbert happy.

This one is gonnna bite him in the rear.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | August 17, 2007 12:16 PM


Great post. I, too hope Jarvis finds some success in Detroit.

Posted by: Dominic | August 17, 2007 12:19 PM

Nate: I'm not saying that Grunfeld should have kept those guys. I'm saying it concerns me that he thought ALL of the guys he didn't pick should go, which seems to suggest he might be letting his ego get the best of him. Or maybe not. But this is something you see in every sport -- a new GM comes in and he cleans house, bringing in all of "his" players. I'm not convinced that's such a great thing.

Posted by: Sean | August 17, 2007 12:26 PM

"i dont get this Les BouleS thing...could u explain it to me...sounds pretty gay to me...unless i'm not understanding right...so could u please elaborate on what that alludes to

Posted by: jason | August 17, 2007 11:49 AM "

Yes, sk is right in his/her explanation of the origin of Les Boulez. I have altered it because I like typing it with an "s" b/c I don't really give a crap. I capitalized the "S" to emphasize the misspelling because some idiot on the website kept hounding me about "Les Boules" being the wrong spelling. Again, I don't give a crap.

PS. I think you find that "Les BouleS" sounds a "certain way," because maybe you can relate to what you called it. Either way, I do not care.

Posted by: DC Man88 | August 17, 2007 12:30 PM

Wait, so letting Navarro go to Memphis helps the Wizards because now Gasol won't be traded to Chicago? I didn't realize Chicago was the only thing standing in the Wizards' way of reaching the NBA Finals.

Perhaps we should have traded Caron to Minnesota last month so that Boston wouldn't get KG.

I kid because I love.

Posted by: Joe | August 17, 2007 12:32 PM

PS. I think you find that "Les BouleS" sounds a "certain way," because maybe you can relate to what you called it. Either way, I do not care.

haha...actually if i was gay i would think it would be perfectly normal sounding ...kind of how u like using it without feeling gay...anyways whatever floats ur boat...

Posted by: jason | August 17, 2007 12:41 PM

Michael, just wanted to add my comment that your post was excellent. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us!

Posted by: Nick | August 17, 2007 12:46 PM

sorry to see jarvis go although for being known as a shooter if you check his career Fg% you wont be too impressed. but it does leave me scratching my head saying team needs to improve defensively but each of the past 3 year they have let argueably their best deffensive player leave without getting any comp in return larry hughes= nothing in return jared jeffries=nothing in return now hayes ( who did one heck of a job guarding Lebron James probably as good if not better than anyone int the league) go for no comp. granted jeffries and hughes were way over paid by their new teams but if every year we keep hearing the wiz need to improve their D then why let the best deffenders go? lets face it the wizz are the Suns of the east or the nuggets of the late 80s early 90s and move on from this defense garbage thats not who they are and wont be

Posted by: bullets fever | August 17, 2007 12:48 PM

well Ivan, i think the wizards can do better in the navarro trade and here's why.
since memphis is thinking about rebuilding their team before we trade navarro, we could use navarro as a guy to lure gasol to the wizards since gasol want to play with his buddy so much and i think he will do everything he can to ask GM to move him. This way, we will get gasol to play with his best friends in DC..Did the wizards or mr grunfield even consider this?? I think it's real possiblity that this could happen if mr grunfield at least try.. we could give up jamison (a real attractive piece for memphis cause they're rebuilding), our 1st round pick, and maybe nick young...at least that what i think

Posted by: nv | August 17, 2007 12:49 PM

I've said this before, I personally do not care about the implied meaning of "Les Boulez," and the negative connotations that come with it. But, it seems to irk a lot of the abe pollin lapdogs and the starstruck Gilby supporters on this blog, so I just keep using it. Maybe until Les BouleS win a championship.

Anyways, it's better than typing the "Wizards," but if the team changed its name back to the bullets though, I might consider dropping "Les BouleS." I'm thinking Leonsis will do a big PR campaign and bring back the Bullets name once the purchase transaction is finalized.

Posted by: DC Man88 | August 17, 2007 12:50 PM

Jarvis had plenty of chances. He was a one dimensional shooter who couldn't shoot. It was time to go.

Posted by: mark | August 17, 2007 1:01 PM

Good luck to Jarvis, maybe in a couple of years the same guys they labeled him "Arvis" cause he has no J will be whining about another guy that the team let get away.
Shame of it was for Hayes, last year he was getting alot of minutes at the 4 which he was totally unsuited for. His numbers at backup 2 & 3 weren't all that bad and there he's not a bad defender.
Ray, you wrote,"The Wiz need to win now, at the very least for their coaches sake if not their own."
Is that you Ray? The same guy that wanted Jordan's job on an every other game basis? Maybe Grunfeld wants "his" coach in the job, Jordan and his assistants are about the last guys in the basketball side of operations that aren't personal Grunfeld hires. Did you notice that "his guy" demanded and got a one year deal in Boston. So we shall see if the Grunfeld/Jordan marriage lasts.
Arenas walking next summer, could happen, but that high of profile FA's mostly go on sign and trades. Arenas wants max money and that year number 6 becomes huge because of the yearly increases. If he wants out, to get max money a sign and trade comes into play so Ernie's not left with nothing.
I can't see Arenas bolting because this in many ways is his team in that the style of play and even the players around him are assembled to showcase his talents.
I agree with you Ray about the SA analogy in that it's easier to build a contender around a talented big. It's still the hardest thing to find in all of sports, a dominate center that can excell at both ends of the court.
What I was saying about SA is that it takes awhile to become one of those teams that is looking for a peice to fill out their rotation to go deep into the playoffs. Once you become that kind of team the Finley's or Webber's look for a way to get onto your roster. That's where Dallas, the Spurs, and Detroit are now, we'll have to win for a few more years before it happens here. Once that happens a GM can get great bang for his buck on the vet pickups that will play for cheap.
We're not that kind of destination now, but we could be in a few years if this group matures together. I'm not saying we have a Duncan here but if Pecherov, Blatche, or Vereemenko become solid players we could be ok inside. Center or power forward could may well be where Ernie needs to pull a big trade eventually.

Posted by: GM | August 17, 2007 1:09 PM

I've been a Bullets/Wizards fan for over 25 years. This team did absolutely nothing to better them self's this off-season. DMac can be a good player so can NY, but they are rookie's. Ivan I want you to tell where you really think this team will end up, I think 1st round and DONE.

1. Detroit
2. Cleveland
3. Miami
4. Boston, say what want about chem. talent alone will win in the east.
5. Toronto
6. New Jersey, big men are healthy.
7. Washington
8. Milwaukee

Posted by: Kevin | August 17, 2007 1:14 PM

Excellent post by GM. Ernie knows this current team is still a work in progress and lacks the interior toughness, defense and rebounding from the PF & center position. He is hoping to get some of that eventually from Blatche and Pech and McGuire but no one can expect them to be major contributors until 2008-9. Sure Eddie may be gone by then, but the pieces carefully put together by Ernie will still be here (assuming Gil stays. You can be sure that Ernie knows that somewhere, somehow this team has to get tougher and tighter inside to really contend and Navarro didn't offer that possibility.

Posted by: arnie | August 17, 2007 1:17 PM

Bullets Fever:
I think you are wrong about Hayes -- he was not the team's best defender or even second best, though he was good against James. But you raise a very good point. Look back at the team's best defenders over the past 3 seasons, and this is the list:


(And for those of you are quick to say, "Those guys stink!," look back over the team's rosters and tell me who should be on that list instead. It is slim pickings.)

Four of the six are gone, and Haywood might be being shopped as we speak. How can you improve the team's defense with such a drain on the team's best defensive talent?

Posted by: Henry | August 17, 2007 1:19 PM

i agree with kevin 100% this team done nothing in the past 25 years to MAJOR improve their team or their rosters during the offseason and it show every year on their records..as a fan, it's dissapointed..and i also wish we could have an entire change on our uniform too (not just the gold strip but an entire uni) its been 10 years since we have this uni..

Posted by: nv | August 17, 2007 1:37 PM

I don't see Jarvis flourshing in Detroit, he's there for insurance and coming deep off the bench.

As for Navarro, sounds like a deal that hurt Chicago the most, considering they were the team most likely to trade fro Gasol. Chicago is our Nemisis

Posted by: Jamison on the Rocks | August 17, 2007 1:47 PM

I don't see Jarvis flourshing in Detroit, he's there for insurance and coming deep off the bench.

As for Navarro, sounds like a deal that hurt Chicago the most, considering they were the team most likely to trade fro Gasol. Chicago is our Nemisis

Posted by: Jamison on the Rocks | August 17, 2007 1:47 PM

haha nothing in the past 25 years...
oh man. That is rich.

I don't think this is their year for a championship, but I don't think that should be their #1 goal yet. Not making a drastic move this off season will strengthen them next year. This is still a young team, and the young talent needs time to prove/improve itself.

Looking back, I think the team had been pretty patient with Jarvis, hopefully he gets it going in Detroit...

Posted by: greg | August 17, 2007 1:53 PM

"i agree with kevin 100% this team done nothing in the past 25 years to MAJOR improve their team or their rosters during the offseason and it show every year on their records"

Well, that's just ridiculous. In what world does improving from 25 wins (2003-04) to 45 wins (2004-05) and going to the playoffs for the first time in nearly a decade not count as a major improvement?

The acquistions of Arenas, Jamison, Hughes, and Butler

Posted by: kalorama | August 17, 2007 2:00 PM



Sorry, just getting ready for Les BouleS regular season.

Posted by: DC Man88 | August 17, 2007 2:03 PM

Kevin, promise you will print that list out. If we stay healthy we can wind up anywhere on it. I think Chicago will be in the mix this year. Celtics are better, but I see them coming into the playoffs between 6-8 and then giving the higher seeds a hell-uv-a-time.

Posted by: greg | August 17, 2007 2:12 PM

Henry. I did not write that post. That is someone who posted in using my blog name. Anyway, I would just like to commend Michael Lee on a "great" post. I did not know that you did "local" stuff too.

I thought Ivan had wrote this, until I read someone giving you "props" on the good story. Nothing against your national coverage, but I think for the most part everyone here wants to read something about the Wizards and not the other teams that are in the league.

I hope you start giving us more posts like this because it also helped answer a lot of questions we had during the season when we were all posting after games about EJ's crazy substitution calls and why he kept Jarvis in so long. Again thanks for all of the insight and keep up the good "local" news work.........

Posted by: Bullets Fever | August 17, 2007 2:25 PM

Think I'll wait until at least mid-September before joining any discussions about 4s or 5s. If we get there without any changes, I'll be happy to go another year with Antawn, and hope that one of the new(er) guys can give him 10 minutes of solid relief. I'll be depressed that the center drama continues, but I'll hope one of those guys realizes his future value will be zero if he has another year like either of the last two.

Like someone said, I think it will be good to have the same backcourt for two years in a row. I expect a banner year for Caron. I hope the new talent actually will provide a stronger bench. I remain a somewhat disappointed Eddie Jordan fan, but I tend to agree this is a make-it-break-it year for him.

For the record, I don't think Ernie Grunfeld has let one potential star slip away, which in itself is a big positive for this team. As far as Les Boule_, is concerned, I couldn't care less about sex/gender issues, I just hate being routinely reminded about the Washington celebrity of second-rate refugees from third-rate New York papers.

Looking forward to a good season,

Posted by: Bill Carr | August 17, 2007 2:27 PM

DCMan, Hamilton and Wallace were dealt when they were clearly on their upswing (thanks Wes and MJ!). Jarvis Hayes' career has been one big down curve since his decent rookie year. Do you really think the Wizards are going to regret his leaving
the way they did Hamilton's and Wallace's.

Posted by: George Templeton | August 17, 2007 2:42 PM

What do you mean this team "has done nothing in the past 25 years to MAJOR improve their team." Signing Arenas to a free agent contract didn't significantly turn around the team's fortunes? He currently is being paid only $11 million which is definitely below his current market value. Arenas is only 25, is a perennial all-star and will only continue to get better. His signing was a steal by Ernie.

Caron Butler is only 27 and put up 19 ppg, 7 rpg, 4 apg and 2 spg. Not bad considering we gave up Kwame (the cancer) to get him. Please don't use the words "Kwame" and "defense" in the same sentence. Kwame plays no defense now and never played defense for the Wizards. He posted 8 ppg, 6 rbg and 1 bpg in 41 injury-riddled games. If he was so good, I doubt Kobe would be whining about the crappy team he plays on. Kwame makes $1 million more per year than Caron. On the point that Grunfeld is cleaning house to get in his players, I think Michael Jordan would have jettisoned Kwame sooner if he could have after actually playing with the kid.

As for Hughes, Jeffries and Hayes, its not that Grunfeld traded them, or was actively looking to rid the team of these players, he just decided they weren't worth the contracts they were offered by other teams. As of today, I think we would all agree that he was 100% correct in that assessment. It would be great if Hughes was still here, but not at that price for injury-riddled seasons (he's played in only 65% of Cleveland's games).

Regarding Sean's statement that we would have Luol Deng, that's assuming that we would have drafted him over Devin Harris (if the trade with the Mavs wasn't in place). Most teams had Harris rated higher than Deng in that draft (and still might have him rated higher), and it is only through the benefit of hindsight do we realize that Deng is really a beast.

And Blake is a nice player, but he has played on 4 different teams in 4 seasons. If he was such a stud (and no question was starter quality), the Denver Nuggets (and these other teams) would have done anything to keep him. He is a decent player, but he is no Steve Nash or Gilbert Arenas.

Gruneld has developed a team that will make the playoffs every year...that's pretty much all we can ask for right now. I've suffered through years of Unseld screwing things up, whether via the draft or trades (B. Wallace and C. Webber). People forget that the Wizards were mediocre in the late '80s and really bad in the 90's, and even with decent draft selections were never able to improve.

Regarding O'Malley, she just got her law degree from Georgetown. I'm sure that has something to do with her wanting to pursue other interests. I guess we'll see when she announces her future plans.

Posted by: Hoops | August 17, 2007 2:43 PM

Uh oh, another DC player finds his way to Detroit. Will the trend continue? Even though jury is still out on how good Weber will be there, bullets/wiz players have had a habit of flourishing in Detroit.
Jarvis is a perfect example of how even the most well-liked players can be given the unceremonious boot. It is about performance and if you are not getting it done, you gotta go. It's no surprise that everyone wishes him well.

Posted by: low | August 17, 2007 2:48 PM

actually kwame was known to play good man on man post defense...

Posted by: jason | August 17, 2007 2:49 PM

Ok I forgot Chicago, that put us at 8. If people could read and comprehend I said "I've been a Bullets/Wizards fan for over 25 years. This team did absolutely nothing to better them self's (this off-season)." For people who think this is building for the future Your our best player will leave after the season bet you that. " See Lebron's Shoe deal " Big company's like there players in big markets, He's gone. AJ is on the back end of he's career, and who is a proven player on this team after Butler NO ONE!

Posted by: Kevin | August 17, 2007 2:51 PM

George, I think Les BouleS gave up on Ben Wallace for Ike Austin. People praised that as a no brainer when it was done. If Wallace had the PT that he got after he left, he may have blossomed more. Here in Les BouleS land, he didn't get much PT. Recall, Muresan, CWebb, Darvin Ham, Juwan, Jimmy Mac, Rod, etc. were all on this team.

Rip is a different story. I think MJ let him go b/c Rip outshined him. For Jarvis, time will only tell. They let him go after he came off several bad injuries (2 broken kneecaps, one bad fall after skying for a play, etc.). He never had enough PT to regain his confidence.

Posted by: DC Man88 | August 17, 2007 2:53 PM

to the poster nv who said we should have entertained bringing in Gasol, you do know that the deal is done. and that would have made no sense with the current makeup of our team. there is a benefit to cohesion and familiarity. most likely we will have the same starting 5 on the court and the same coach for the 2nd season. the pick we received for JCN is an asset. the guy was a 2nd round pick who until just recently was not in our plans at all and had no aspirations of coming to the nba. had he stayed and not negotiated his buy-out, he'd simply be an afterthought. the pick may not seem tangible at this point but at some point it will be even if its a buffer to a trade. another thing we will have to watch is what eddie jordan does this year with his substitution patterns given he has what looks to be an improved bench.

Posted by: G$ | August 17, 2007 2:57 PM

I wish I could post video clips of Kwame playing "good man on man post defense." I think his size 15 sneakers are still stuck on the floor at Verizon Center when he was faked out of his shoes by a post move and dunk by Jermaine O'Neal.

What you fail to state is that even if he was a decent man-to-man post defender, that doesn't address the fact that the dude still doesn't understand the concept of TEAM defense, which is the most important aspect of a good defender especially for someone of his size.

And did you see him in the playoffs this year. He averaged 8 points and 6 rebounds per game and less than 1 block. Not that imposing if you're 6-11 and you can't block at least 1 shot a game. He was nowhere to be found in the playoffs.

Posted by: Hoops | August 17, 2007 2:58 PM

Kevin - What do you mean by "see LeBron's Shoe deal?" Are you insinuating that LeBron is in a big market in Cleveland? He signed an extension through the 2009-10 season. Cleveland is not even close to being considered a big market. LA, NY, Chicago and Boston are considered big markets, but Cleveland is not.

Arenas is a weird dude. He might flip a coin to decide his fate...and I pray that he doesn't.

Posted by: Hoops | August 17, 2007 3:04 PM

In the year when the Wizards traded the pick that became Devin Harris, the buzz was that the Wizards were going to take Deng or Iguodala, and they seemed to really like Deng. I don't believe the Wizards worked out Harris, but I could be very wrong about that.

Posted by: Sean | August 17, 2007 3:05 PM

Sorry, forgot this -- the Wizards already had Arenas (he signed the previous summer), so it's very unlikely they would have picked Harris.

Posted by: Sean | August 17, 2007 3:08 PM

LaBron has I clause in his deal that will give insensitive if he signs with a team in a big market. Gil is now the #1 guy for adidas. He recently became the guy for them an all of a sudden he going to opt out. WATCH!!!!

Posted by: Kevin | August 17, 2007 3:12 PM

Sean - I agree that they were interested in Iguodala and Deng...those were the rumors. But they also worked out a ton of other players. Harris was expected to go even higher than 5 in the draft that season. I don't think anyone thought Deng and Iguodala would be the players that they are...otherwise they wouldn't have been drafted at 7 and 9. Because of his explosiveness, most would take Iguodala #2 (after D. Howard) and Deng at #3 in this draft if they could have a do over. But both of these guys had break out seasons just this past year, and Jamison has had an incredible impact on the Wizards since he joined the team. He's been in DC for 3 years and averaged 20 ppg and around 8-9 rbg.

Posted by: Hoops | August 17, 2007 3:16 PM

i never said that kwame understood team defense...just stating the fact that he is a good post defender...and that is even from the mouth of phil jackson...no he doesnt put up good numbers and he is worthless in nearly every other aspect...stats can be misleading...just beacause u average 10 boards and 3 blocks a game doesnt mean that your a good man defender...good man defenders often do not have stats to show for that...

Posted by: jason | August 17, 2007 3:28 PM

We are probably belaboring this, but I'm not quibbling with the Jamison trade -- the team has made the playoffs every year he's been here. How can you argue with that? I was just listing who Ernie got rid off during his tenure, that's all. If the Wizards kept the pick, they would have most likely picked Deng, Iguodala, Childress or Harris, though Harris would not have made much sense after landing a PG in Gil the summer before.

By the way, here's a fun fact: Do you guys remember what Wilbon said the Wizards should do with the pick that year ('04)? He had two ideas. The first was to trade down and pick Rafael Araujo. Brilliant! On the second, he was joined by Kornheiser and DuPree on Full Court Press -- the Wizards should trade Arenas, Hayes and that #5 pick for Iverson. Classic comedy!

Posted by: Sean | August 17, 2007 3:37 PM

I liked the way Kwame played his man to man D, but on the flip side, he was never ever aggressive going towards the basket for either an offensive rebound or a defensive rebound. I never saw him fight for his position to get the offensive rebound. He'd just stand there and watch the J go up. He seemed to me like a guy who's always drifting.

A guy like him needs someone like JKidd to give him easy baskets and build his confidence. With a young team like Les BouleS when he was here, it didn't work. Also, MJ and Doug Collins did their share of shattering his confidence which he may never rebound from.

Posted by: DC Man88 | August 17, 2007 3:41 PM

what do you mean you didnt see hayes getting drafted?........ hayes ripped a** in the SEC! i think you need to check the kids collegic stats! he didnt get the the leauge by luck.

on another note, i do agree that he didnt do what we expected him to do, and i think he needed a change. j dumars didnt sign him to sit on the bench; trust me! a team of that magnitude had to see something in this kid.

trust me when i say this...... jarvis is going to reach his potential in detroit. i think his problem last year was mentally vs physically. i wish you the best jarvis and despite the fact that i am a wiz fan i will be rooting for you!

Posted by: wizfan07 | August 17, 2007 5:03 PM

I think EG got some great draft picks, but I don't know about any of them being break out stars their rookie year. I think he is building for the long term rather than this season. I don't see Nick Young doing any more than Arvis Hayes did for the Wiz. Now D Mac is another subject, this man has the potential to be really good.

Posted by: gilfan4liffff | August 17, 2007 5:21 PM

Great post Ivan. Jarvis was a neighbor of mine. My family and some of our other neighbors got to know him . My kids actually were very disappointed last night when I told them he would not be on the team this year. He had decent skills, but just could not stay healthy. He was a down to earth guy that represented the NBA in a dignified manner. I wish him well in Detroit. Good luck JH24.

Posted by: GMAN | August 17, 2007 5:49 PM

Jarvis had two injury plagued seasons and then last year just could not be productive for the Wizards. The team gave Jarvis more than a fair shake.

He seemed like a nice and classy guy. I wish him well in Detroit (except when he plays us).

Posted by: Tim | August 17, 2007 5:53 PM

Ivan I am glad you raised the point of the poor diagnosis. I heard from my neighbor that Hayes was complaining about his knee for weeks to the staff and doctors. I believe he was told he had tendonitis and come to find out weeks and 1 xray later he was playing on a fractured patella. I think that is very poor diagnosis from the doctors. Yet is doesn't excuse the performance at all. I think with a clear head and new beginning he will fair out fine. I pray that he had good health and much success.

He is a good guy and like you Ivan I want to see him do well. He represents the NBA and young men well. Just think he could be out there trying to get a fix from an under cover cop posing as a PROSTITUTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: TMAC | August 17, 2007 6:09 PM

Hayes sucks and so do the Pistons
Wizards are gonna sweep Detroit in the '07 - 08 and Nick Young is gonna posterize Jarvis

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2007 8:26 PM

good luck to Jarvis. I was psyched when he was drafted - the next Mitch Richmond, they called him.. but the man had bad luck. if he can get some spring in that first step again, he could do a lot for the Pistons. they've made another smart acquisition.

Posted by: satch | August 17, 2007 8:45 PM

Jarvis Hayes could have been a decent player had he stayed healthy while here but he had the misfortune of the "Curse" locking onto him and now that he's gone I hope he has gets to realize his full potential in Detroit. Whish you the best #24. As for Kwame MJ and Dirty Doug didn't do him any good. He came here as a child and being called out by MJ in the media and infront of teammates had to really crush him, he may have become a solid not really a superstar but SOLID big. As someone said in an earlier post his head was screwed up after that and now he just has to prove that he can play. AB if you are listening STOP, think and think some more please. You keep going this way and unfortunately you may end up as another MV type story. You got skilz develope them and work on your whole game man. Wiz in 08

Posted by: Sandman357 | August 18, 2007 6:55 AM

Jarvis Hayes is another version of Calbert Cheney...nice guy but no game that helps the Wizards. Good luck in Detroit

Posted by: Russ | August 20, 2007 3:38 PM

Wow; I mean I can understand skepticism, as I have been a long-suffering Redskins fan since 1978, but I can't imagine anyone being a Bullets / Wizards fan for 25 years complaining about the off-season these Wizards have had! "DMac and NY are good but they are rookies" Are you kidding me?! Did you see Summer league play?! Oh, and before any of you amateur GMs start lecturing me about it just being "Summer League", please spare me!! If you are so cynical as to not be genuinely excited about the Wizards' roster for next season, please, please, please sell me your season tickets!! I'll gladly take them off your hands, (for a discount of course)! I have watched Summer league games for the past 3 years, and man, Andray Blatche was nice to watch last year - but Pesh, DMac and N.Y. are the T-R-U-T-H!! These kids will be coming off the bench!! C'mon, you skeptics must have been told there was no Santa very early in life!! As for Jarvis Hayes, he was one of my favorite players here, (actually got to meet him, and he seemed like a genuinely great kid), but he just wasn't getting it done, man. Hopefully, Jarvis signing with another team will have the Ben Wallace / Bobby Simmons affect on his career, (remember, when Bobby left hear, he was a candidate for 6th man of the year, or something like that). All the best to Jarvis, but the Wizards needed to move on (if DMac keeps working on his outside game, he will more than make up for Jarvis' defensive presence, and scoring out-put). And all this talk about "best defender" is BS; when Rip and that huge head of his were shipped to Detroit, he couldn't defend an 8 year old girl with a rifle, now, thanks to coaching and an attitude change, he is a serviceable defender, like all of the Piston guards. Defense is about attitude (player) and aptitude (coaching); anything else is just a myth; And, did my eyes deceive me, or did I actually see someone taking Grunfeld to task for getting rid of Kwame (best defender?) and for Caron Butler - no less? Are you guys kidding me?!!!

Posted by: guisher | August 20, 2007 3:55 PM

Letting Jarvis go will be looked back at as a great decision by EG in the future. DMAC is a much better defender than jarvis. I mean that is his strength. That is what he is known for, playing defense with heart. And Nick Young will become a much more reliable and explosive scorer in the NBA than Jarvis Hayes. He is the real deal. And they both have much more upside being rookies.

Posted by: DAV | August 20, 2007 4:36 PM

And the wizards are garunteed a 1st rd pick from the JCN deal. Its just a matter of when over the next few years. It could end up being a #1 pick in like 3 years

Posted by: DAV | August 20, 2007 4:41 PM

R u kidding me, the wizards 7th in the east!?

1.Boston(KG is a serious post up threat, Allen is top 5 in 3pt shooters and Pierce is all around good)
2.Miami(Wade can carry an already pretty good team with Shaq still demanding doubles in the paint)
3-4.Washington(Explosive offense and i love AD and Songaila and the rest of the bench this year)
3-4.Toronto(A solid team with a ton of young talent)
5.Detroit(The east got better this year and they are old news)
6.Chicago(Ben Gordon needs to step up and be an all-star)
7.Cleveland(They didnt do enough this summer to keep up with east gaining so much talent)
8.New Jersey(Orlando and Milwauke are talented but Kidd running this offense with there big men, and Carter will be better)

I say washington loses in the Confrence finals.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 20, 2007 5:04 PM

RUSS had it exactly right:

Like Cal Cheaney before him, JH was a much better shooter when he could take a dribble or 2 and pull up. Problem is, that s*** don't work in the NBA. First of all, it means he was shooting mostly 2s, not 3s. Second, NBA coaches know players' tendencies and the defenders (who are bigger and faster) exploit that. Finally, the fact that he wasn't a good catch & shoot guy meant he couldn't "finish" the play where one of our big 3 gets doubled, kicks the ball out and swings it around for an open 3.

Having said that, I always rooted for the guy, and could see that being Rip's backup might be a better fit for him. For all our talk of a Princeton offense, all I see is the big 3 jacking it up and everyone else sitting around waiting. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, let's just not kid ourselves that we're running this precise motion offense with lots of cuts, open j's, assists, and balanced scoring)

Posted by: mik_smith | August 21, 2007 4:11 PM

Nice article, and good to hear such a ringing endorsement of the newest Piston. Detroit conditioning coach Arnie Kander has a reputation as a miracle worker -- hopefully he can add Jarvis to his Lazarus List.

PS ... how can a Detroit hoops team have a roster that includes the names Jarvis and Chauncey?

Posted by: PistonsFan | August 21, 2007 8:56 PM

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