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Navarro trade details

I've been able to confirm details of the Juan Carlos Navarro trade. Here's the deal:

-Memphis receives Navarro.

-The Wizards receive a top-19 protected first round pick in 2008, a top-16 protected pick in 2009, a top-14 (lottery) protected pick from 2010-2012, a top-12 protected pick in 2013 or a second-round pick and cash considerations if they have not received a pick by 2013.

Basically, this whole thing sort of depends on how well the Grizzlies do next season. And if they don't, does Ernie really want two first-round picks next year anyway? They already have Nick Young, Dominic McGuire and Pecherov to develop and Andray Blatche is going to be here as well. Ernie released a statement on the trade today and to me, having dealt with him for three years now, the most telling word in that statement was "asset." Translation: It can be a pick or it can be used as a part of a package in a future trade.

Folks are going to have different opinions on this deal and I'm not here to tell people what to think but I will throw a few things out there for your consideration.

- At no point have I heard that anyone has offered a better deal than this one. Though as many as 8-10 teams contacted Ernie, I hear that no one offered anything better than a second-round pick. Sources tell me that Ernie had discussions that would have packaged Etan Thomas with the pick but none of those talks resulted in a serious offer. I can't say whether the Wiz and Grizz seriously discussed a deal that would have swapped Etan for Stro Swift but at least one source said they did. I have no idea whether Ernie considered a deal that would have involved Brendan Haywood.

-Ernie never seriously considered signing Navarro himself and once he used a chunk of his mid-level to ink DeShawn Stevenson, he didn't have any money to do so anyway. According to my sources, the Wizards like Navarro as a player but viewed Stevenson as a better fit for the upcoming season. Now, had Stevenson signed elsewhere, Navarro would have been a possibility but I hear that the Wiz may have signed Devin Brown instead.

-The deal maker in this entire thing was Pau Gasol's insistence that Memphis get his boy in a Grizz uniform. This summer. I can't say that Gasol went in there kicking and screaming and demanding that they get Navarro or else but I wouldn't be shocked if he did.

-In unrelated notes: the Wiz have 13 players under contract though Donell Taylor and Mike Hall have non-guaranteed deals. Basicaly, they and Brian Chase will have to make the team and then be on the team at a mid-season deadline to have their contracts guaranteed for the entire season.

-Don't be shocked if a deal for Blatche is done in the next few days.

Discuss.

By Ivan Carter  |  August 16, 2007; 5:51 PM ET
 
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Comments

Very interesting, that word asset. I don't think we will ever see that pick become one of your Wizards. Ernie seems determined to move ET and I think he will, if not this year than next.

Posted by: oddjob | August 16, 2007 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Let the wailing about how Grunfeld "gave away" a guy who would have been "huge" for the Wiz begin.

Posted by: kalorama | August 16, 2007 6:28 PM | Report abuse

This deal stinks. Especially if Navarro turns out to be pretty good. I think the Wiz messed up but then again you have to give Ernie the benefit of the doubt...

Posted by: Anonymous | August 16, 2007 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Ivan, I don't understand your line, "Basically, this whole thing sort of depends on how well the Grizzlies do next season."
I think there's no chance the Grizzlies will be in the top 10 teams next season, and thus the Wizards won't get the pick next year. So the Wizards will get it the next time the Grizzlies make the playoffs, essentially. So do you mean that if the Grizzlies struggle this year, Gasol will want out, and then the Grizzlies will be in the lottery for the next 5 years and the Wizards will just get a second round pick in 2013?

Posted by: Sean | August 16, 2007 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Two things I find interesting, and very pro Wiz:
1. Gasol stays in the West with his buddy, not in Chicago or New Jersey or anywhere in the East. The last thing we need is Gasol coming East too after this summer.
2. Ernie got SOMETHING for NOTHING. Even an early 2nd Rounder is worth more than NOTHING (see Arenas selection by GS a couple of years ago). There was never any room for JCN.
I will continue to praise Grunfeld as one of the top GM's in the league, year in and out. None of this hot-(stuff)-Presti in Seattle or overrated types like Donnie Walsh and Pat Riley. He contines to lead the Wiz into the top of the East, slowly but surely.
I submit 1981 - 1996 as proof of what the Wiz once were. You guys remember that (crap)??!?!?

Posted by: Nate in LA | August 16, 2007 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Deal sucks. Ernie should have held out for the possibility of near-future lottery pick (a full or partially unprotected pick) or let the whiny little Nararro walk.

Posted by: DC | August 16, 2007 6:38 PM | Report abuse

DC:

It's hard to tell online: Is that sarcasm, or are you actually suggesting the Wiz would have been better off letting Navarro go for nothing if they couldn't get a high first rounder (which, by the way, they weren't going to get) rather than taking this deal?

Posted by: kalorama | August 16, 2007 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Detroit signed Jarvis Hayes

Posted by: Anonymous | August 16, 2007 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Detroit signed Jarvis Hayes

Posted by: Anonymous | August 16, 2007 6:42 PM | Report abuse

id rather hav stro and a 2nd rounder even a future on for etan and jcn.

Posted by: omar | August 16, 2007 6:44 PM | Report abuse

I'm not impressed by the deal, but time will tell. Let's see how Navarro does, and then we'll know.
This stuff about, "there was no room for Navarro" is bull. If Navarro's good, there would have/should have been room; if not, then it was a good deal.

Posted by: Joe | August 16, 2007 6:51 PM | Report abuse

i think we sould have just tradeed him for a 2nd Rounder than this complicated pick plus everyone knows that Ernie qorks his magic with 2nd rounders

Posted by: Fulvio | August 16, 2007 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Thanx Ivan, great update. Happy to hear Blatche will be signed soon. Conditions look a little crazy, but if we can make up a package with Etan, would be moot regardless.

Posted by: robert | August 16, 2007 6:53 PM | Report abuse

That wasn't sarcasm. The point is, Ernie got owned. If the Grizz wanted him bad enough, they could have been forced to expose themselves with a partially unprotected pick, within the next 2-3 years. In order for Ernie to get that kind of value, he would have to had been willing to back up his bargaining position with a real threat of letting Navarro walk. Instead, Ernie blinked, took their trashy offer. Credit the new Memphis GM with a good deal for them.

Posted by: DC | August 16, 2007 7:00 PM | Report abuse

idiot.

Posted by: oddjob | August 16, 2007 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Homer.

Posted by: DC | August 16, 2007 7:10 PM | Report abuse

navarro will be a poor mans carlos arroyo..hes 170lbs soaking wet!!! good trade imo

Posted by: Anonymous | August 16, 2007 7:10 PM | Report abuse

I believe Iverson, Steve Blake, Calderon and others are 170 lbs or less.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 16, 2007 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Ivan et al

Have you ever heard of a deal that involved a first round pick with that much protection for that looonnng! I'll agree that its better we got something than nothing... but the economist in me wants to talk about diminishing returns. Essentially trading a 2nd round pick in 2005 for a first rounder in 2013 is insane waste of value. There is no way memphis is making the playoffs in the west for at least the next several years... UNLESS Navarro turns out to be incredible in the nba. And then we would get the 'consolation' prize of a late first round pick.
All I can say is that I hope EG has something else lined up or we are going to be hearing it for a long time from the memphis fans on how stupid our gm is. And i've long been a fan of EG.
Are there any other teams out there even that stupid to take this new "asset" from us in a trade.

Posted by: Dante | August 16, 2007 7:15 PM | Report abuse

Again I say that the only way we are getting the first round pick anytime soon is if Navarro turns out to be a solid nba player. What kind of sick trade is that. GRRRRRRRR

Posted by: Dante | August 16, 2007 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Navarro-to-Griz deal finally done
By Marlon W. Morgan (Contact)
Originally published 05:49 p.m., August 16, 2007
Updated 05:49 p.m., August 16, 2007

Nearly two weeks after the Grizzlies agreed in principle to obtain the rights to Spanish guard Juan Carlos Navarro from the Washington Wizards, the trade was finally consummated on Thursday.


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After a drawn-out process that involved several exchanges between the Grizzlies and Navarro's Spanish League team, FC Barcelona, the Grizzlies signed the 6-3, 27-year-old shooting guard to a one-year deal. He will be a restricted free agent following the 2007-08 season. In return, the Grizzlies will give the Wizards a protected first round pick.

Starting in 2008, the pick is protected from 1-19. The pick increases in value until 2013, when picks 1-12 are protected. If the draft pick is not used by then, the Wizards will receive cash and a second-round pick.

``Juan Carlos is a proven commodity,'' Grizzlies general manager Chris Wallace said. ``He's one of the elite players on the international and European scenes. He's got significant big game experience. He's a tremendous competitor. He's an attacking basketball player. He can shoot from long range. He's got a great runner in the lane. He's very proficient with that shot. He passes the ball well. He can play both backcourt spots

Posted by: Dre' | August 16, 2007 7:17 PM | Report abuse

blake and calderon? neither have ever started a full season..and ai is well ai

Posted by: Anonymous | August 16, 2007 7:17 PM | Report abuse

sad to see JCN go, I do think that EG has made a mistake. sure, Stevenson is familiar with the team, but I think EG's draft strategy applies to contracts, too: you take the most talented player. JCN is more talented than Stevenson, and can make serious buckets. he'll be a better fit with Memphis, but that will only serve to make this trade look worse.

Posted by: satch | August 16, 2007 7:24 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if Jarvis will continue the trend of former Washington players going on to have success in Detroit? Rip, Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, ... Jarvis?

Put me down for one Buckhantz "dagger" from Jarvis against the Wiz this season.

Posted by: Sean | August 16, 2007 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Hard to believe this is the best that the Wiz could do, especially in light of the fact that Gasol was half way out the door last season and was strongly pushing for this deal. It seems that Ernie should have been in a stronger position considering that if Gasol forced a trade, the franchise would be in trouble (granted they weren't that good to begin with, even with Gasol). I would have figured that the Griz would have had their hands tied.

That being said, you have to give Ernie the benefit of the doubt and hope that he trades the pick along with ET or Brenda to get us a real inside presence and/or someone who has heard of DEFENSE. If JCN turns into an all-star this year and Gilbert signs with another team (even though he said that he wouldn't) when he opts out of his contract (remember when he said he would take a pay cut in order to get some help on the Wizards?), I think Ernie should pack his bags. Quickly.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 16, 2007 7:27 PM | Report abuse

From the information we have available, the Navarro deal could have gone three ways:

1. The Wiz let Navarro go back to Barcelona (and get nothing, probably ever).

2. The Wiz sign Navarro (an unknown quantity).

3. The Wiz sign Stevenson (a known quantity who fits in with the team) & get a restricted 1st round pick (apparently the best deal offered by anyone)

Which way is better for the Wizards?

Posted by: Tim | August 16, 2007 7:28 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad to know that, should Ernie step away any time soon, the Wizards have a deep pool of shrewd potential GMs in this blog's readership.

Posted by: Mike in SD | August 16, 2007 7:33 PM | Report abuse

does a "deal" for Blache mean signing him, or packing him and Eton or Brendon now that Blache has had this episode

Posted by: ilbmd | August 16, 2007 7:33 PM | Report abuse

does a "deal" for Blache mean signing him, or packing him and Eton or Brendon now that Blache has had this episode

Posted by: ilbmd | August 16, 2007 7:33 PM | Report abuse

ilbmd - considering that he says "and Andray Blatche is going to be here as well," along with yesterday's comment about replacing Jarvis' pic with Blatche's, I think it's safe to assume the former.

Posted by: Mike in SD | August 16, 2007 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Mike in SD. AMEN!!!!!

Posted by: Lisa | August 16, 2007 7:44 PM | Report abuse

boner

Posted by: Anonymous | August 16, 2007 7:46 PM | Report abuse

All I know is this team will be sweet if Blatche continues to develop and Pecherov is mean. Both brought to town by Ernie.

If Pecherov is not mean, the trade Etan or Haywood for someone who is. At this point Charles Oakley's comeback is what the Wiz need. A 43 year old bulldog is better than "The Matador" Brendan Haywood.

Posted by: Nate in LA | August 16, 2007 7:48 PM | Report abuse

i got a feeling Etan going jy beast out this year

Posted by: i | August 16, 2007 7:48 PM | Report abuse

This year I will be absolutely THRILLED if I can apply the term "beast" to anyone on the team not named Caron.

I think Ernie is calling his old pal Oakley right now.

"Oakley, from the elbow... good".

Posted by: Nate in LA | August 16, 2007 7:53 PM | Report abuse

mike in sd: part of what this blog is about is to speculate on what the Wizards should or could do. if you don't like it you make your "useful" posts elsewhere.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 16, 2007 8:16 PM | Report abuse

I think 95% of Wizards fans understand the deal.

The other 5% post on this blog.

Posted by: Wei | August 16, 2007 8:17 PM | Report abuse

"And if they don't, does Ernie really want two first-round picks next year anyway?"

Uh Ivan, of course Grunfeld would want two first round picks. When is it ever bad to have too many first round picks? They can be used to trade up or packaged to trade for a big man.

All in all, Les BouleS really gave up JCN for nothing. By the time Les BouleS actually use this pick, the entire cast of management, owner, and maybe most of the players could be gone. I don't see how trading JCN helps Les BouleS in the immediate future, which is now.

Posted by: DC Man88 | August 16, 2007 8:26 PM | Report abuse

No not nothing, the money they would have used to sign Navarro, they used to sign Stevenson.

Posted by: Tim | August 16, 2007 8:30 PM | Report abuse

i think we sould have just tradeed him for a 2nd Rounder than this complicated pick plus everyone knows that Ernie qorks his magic with 2nd rounders

Posted by: Fulvio | August 16, 2007 8:34 PM | Report abuse

"I think 95% of Wizards fans understand the deal.

The other 5% post on this blog.

Posted by: Wei | August 16, 2007 08:17 PM "


I guess that makes you part of that 5%.

Posted by: DC Man88 | August 16, 2007 8:36 PM | Report abuse

It's also a good bet that the $500,000 that we would've had to pay as part of JCN's buyout factored into the equation, especially with Abe being as frugal as he is and us up against the cap.

Posted by: VeCente115 | August 16, 2007 8:50 PM | Report abuse

horrible deal.....no one is going to want that pick/"asset" in a trade.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 16, 2007 8:54 PM | Report abuse

The major issue here is NOT JCN! Think back if you will to the days of Juan Dixon when you closed your eyes and gritted your teeth on defense as you cheered on offense. JCN defensively against most shooting guards is a mismatch, as most NBA teams will look to exploit him nightly. He looks to be a very good shooter and has a great runner, which will be his signature shot in the league, but will be prone to foul trouble. Looks like a 20-25 minute guy who'll avg 10-12 pts and 3-4 assts, but we'll see. The issues we should be discussing are whether GA is going to be able to contain dribble penetration this year, and if AJ will stick to his midrange game, rather than settling for fool's gold (3 pt line). As much as everyone wants to dog Etan, he is the team's most consistent defender (especially on screen and rolls), and I saw an article yesterday about his presence as the Clifford Ray/ Robert Parrish big man camp (where was BH?)Sometimes the best change that you can make is no change at all. What the team REALLY needs to do is start either Songalia or OP or AB and bring AJ off the bench as SA did with Ginobli. That would solve the problem of scoring from the 2nd unit, and create much better offensive and defensive balance for the first and second teams. More length defensively is needed for the starting five and OP or AB would give us that. Offensive discipline and effective rotations and closeouts on defense will make a much bigger difference for this team than a 6'3" guard.

Posted by: Mike in the Springs | August 16, 2007 9:02 PM | Report abuse

i think we could put wei, lisa and mike in sd in the same 5%.

or perhaps they just don't have anything intellgent to say so they make negative comments so they can feel better about themselves.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 16, 2007 9:09 PM | Report abuse

I'm willing to accept that this was the best deal available -- though perhaps Grunfeld was slightly leveraged by Memphis (them betting he was willing to let JCN return to Spain). Regardless, though, has anyone ever heard of trade conditions this restrictive? Especially the final clause, that the pick would become a second-rounder. I'm not even sure what the Wizards should be hoping for -- a late pick in 2008, or a middle pick in 2010, or...? Is this asset really much of an asset to any team?--a pick that that will most likely not exist for three more years, and is guaranteed to never be very high?

If the pick became unrestricted in, let's say, 2011, at least then there'd be a possible jackpot, something to hope for. As is, I'd say this asset is worth something like the 40th pick in 2008. In fact, would you rather have this conditional first-rounder or definitely Memphis's 2008 2nd-rounder?

I am clearly giving this a bit too much thought.

Posted by: neck of eackles | August 16, 2007 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Since EG only had so much money to play with (as most teams do), once he decided to sign Stevenson, he was not going to be able to sign Navarro.

So to me anyting he got for Navarro was icing on the cake.

If Memphis should happen to play poorly enough any time soon, it becomes a bona fide first round pick in that year that could be used by EG for something useful.

Posted by: Tim | August 16, 2007 9:30 PM | Report abuse

I like the deal. Hopefully they will package the pick with Haywood and address the center position. As it stands right now, the BULLETS, (I wish they would change the name from Wiz) are weak inside and all good teams have been exploiting that for the past 3+ seasons. In case you all have forgotten, EG has put talent on this team instead of trading it away for washed up players. Ie. Wallace for Ike Austin, Webber for Thorpe & Richmond, Rip for Crackhouse. Have some faith in the man, he's only put them back in the playoffs. He also got rid of Kwame (waste of a #1) for Butler, which is the most solid trade this town has seen since the Redskins traded Jay Schroeder for Jim Lachey!

The bottom line is that they MUST get stronger down on the blocks and in the paint. If they can do that, you're looking at a serious challenger for the East!

Keep the hope alive, Brenda Haywood will be in the WNBA soon enough!

Posted by: Toochilled | August 16, 2007 9:35 PM | Report abuse

I should have said above "if Memphis should happen to play well enough..."

Posted by: Tim | August 16, 2007 9:36 PM | Report abuse

If JCN is the next coming of Jesus, shouldn't we be getting Memphis' first round pick next year anyway since they'll be a top 10 team?

Posted by: Anonymous | August 16, 2007 10:46 PM | Report abuse

I totally agree with mike in the springs...put some length in the starting unit and some scoring punch in the second unit! We don't need another scorer who cannot defend we have plenty of those we need to learn how to play some "decent" D! Which would be a step in the right direction!

Posted by: MK WY | August 16, 2007 11:11 PM | Report abuse

I'm with the majority who seem to not like this deal. We all know that EG has done a marvelous job over all, but we don't like this particular trade. I've never heard of a deal that has as many protections as this one does for Memphis. How could we possibly package a 1st round pick that will probably end up being a 2nd rounder in 2013-14. Who in their right mind will take this off of our hands. Memphis isn't talented enough to compete anytime soon in the West, so we'll never see a 1st rounder.

Posted by: Jeff | August 16, 2007 11:36 PM | Report abuse

P.S. - If we didn't do anything with JCN this year then we would still have his rights next year to explore trades.

Posted by: Jeff | August 16, 2007 11:39 PM | Report abuse

We was Robbed!

Really, has anyone EVER heard of such protection on a pick?

Discuss.

k-dub

Posted by: k-dub | August 16, 2007 11:50 PM | Report abuse

I would have rather had James Posey...

Posted by: AV | August 17, 2007 12:01 AM | Report abuse

There are too many "what-if's", for too many years in this deal, just to eventually receive a lousy late-round pick. Usually when teams conduct a trade like this, the first year is protected, but the second year is protected to a much lesser degree; eventually, the receiving team gets an unprotected pick if the other team remains lousy for the first one or two years.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2007 12:03 AM | Report abuse

You all have short memories. The protection for this pick is similar to the protection the Magic got when we acquired the rights to Brendan Haywood in the 2000 draft.

It's been done before, and it'll be done again in the future.

Posted by: Pradamaster | August 17, 2007 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Interesting deal. As long as the Griz play something close to .500 basketball (they could even be two or three games below), the odds are we get a first rounder in 2011 or 2012.

This deal tells me just as much about what the Grizzlies think about Gasol (e.g. that they're willing to risk a future starter via the draft to keep a franchise player on board); as it does about Navarro (e.g. there's no way the Grizzlies were going to risk giving up even an above average starter via the draft based on how JCN's talent projects out to the NBA level. If it was just marquee talent that the Grizzlies were worried about they could have narrowed the protection to a 7th round pick or lower).

From the Grizzlies perspective this one seems to be primarily about keeping Gasol happy (within reason). From the Wizards perspective this was all about getting some value for a player who probably wouldn't have fit in with EG's vision otherwise.

A hypothetical:

If the only team interested was the Heat, and all they were offering was a 2nd rounder, I would be curious to see what EG would have done. I'm guessing that EG wouldn't have pulled the trigger on the deal and would have let JCN return to Spain.

Posted by: JPT | August 17, 2007 12:19 AM | Report abuse

I think it's kinda funny though...

So if Navarro is good enough to help the grizz be a decent team then we get a higher draft pick than he was: win.

Alternately: If he is a bust and help them be a doormat, at least we didn't give up a solid piece of our team for him: win.

I don't love the trade, I would have preferred that we trade him for 3 1st rounders, a pot of gold and a young Bill Russle. But, at the same time, there is some perverse logic to it. It is a well covered agreement, and at least we didn't send him or Gasol (by proxie) to the east.

Posted by: greg | August 17, 2007 1:06 AM | Report abuse

The wiz could have signed JCN, drafted Marc Gasol and traded AJ, some throw-ins(on or two of AD/ET/BH?) and a first for Pau.

Pau wanted out and wanted to play with JCN and having his brother here too would have made it hard to say no to us but EG cant think that hard.

Marc may be no better than waterboy but he would have helped our position immensely with Pau and we might have gotten a great PG/SG combo in JCN that could have helped us if Gil walked next year.

Posted by: Aprius | August 17, 2007 1:07 AM | Report abuse

I also, am kinda bummed Jarvis landed in Detroit. I mean, I wish him the best, but I have a feeling he will find his shot against us... that would suck. Same time, I think time had run out for him here. The new projects were in the pipeline and he probably needs a change of venue to shake some of the demons... good luck arvis

Posted by: greg | August 17, 2007 1:10 AM | Report abuse

Sounds like a lot of people think the Grizz are the old Clippers. This is a team that made the playoffs - and as a decent - prior to this season when injuries kicked their butt.

I figured all along it was a pipe dream that anyone would take Etan. Anyway, I would rather have and the future #1, than no Etan, No JC, somebody else's bad contract and some weak #2 pick, which is all they would have gotten

Also, to the guy who said he would rather have let Navarro walk, you gotta be kidding. He goes back to Europe, they never get a chance again. IF he helps the Grizz make the playoffs, they get a #1. if he doesn't over the next 3-4 years, then odds are he wasn't that sweet anyway.

Posted by: Ben | August 17, 2007 1:11 AM | Report abuse

Somebody mentioned this earlier - now I agree. Wiz drafted Navarro in 2002. 2002 he & another player. Never intended to keep them or play them. Very clear.

This is part of David Sterns promo of international players into USA. Its as plain as our nose on our faces.

It takes some reading - but its part of their nba internation program. Gasol never intended to leave Memphis unless he could get HUGE money. It was a given - whereever Gasol went - Navarro was a shoe in there too. Say what you will - can't recall who posted this earlier but I agree.

No matter what Ernie will get paid back for orchestrating this deal for Stern.

Posted by: MattIV | August 17, 2007 1:30 AM | Report abuse

Aprius wins... that is a recipe for disaster.
Like we should throw away everything for a shot at Pau? Build our team around him?

it is a funny thought though...

we could have held mark gasol for ransom... lol.

Posted by: greg | August 17, 2007 1:46 AM | Report abuse

Mark my words, this will be another DC trade blunder. Navarro will be the next Tony Parker and Stevenson will probably be playing somewhere in Europe (maybe where Navarro used to play) in the next five years. It's not about "the curse...", it's just odd decision making.

Posted by: David | August 17, 2007 2:42 AM | Report abuse


I like the move, at first I was worried the Wiz would get a raw deal, but this move makes sense. It's a great bargaining chip during trade talks, esp with teams who decide to get rid of their vets and go younger. Maybe teams like the Pacers, Clippers and Suns maybe interested in move their players (Elton Brand, Jermaine O'Neal and Shawn Marion). Who knows what talent the Wiz can get with the picks. All I know is that history proves positive for teams with multiple first round picks(Celtics and Allen, KG also the Nuggets with Iverson)

Posted by: Robert C. | August 17, 2007 7:46 AM | Report abuse

it must be some mistake! please say you wrote wrong:S i think this trade was a big wrong step for the wiz.

Posted by: anton | August 17, 2007 7:48 AM | Report abuse

Ernie is the man; look at the previous deals; Crackhouse for Antawn, Butler for Kwame, Signed Gil...The man makes GOOD moves that few others can make.

This pick makes perfect sense for being fair to both sides. If JCN is good and Griz do well we get a decent pick next year. If he sucks and goes back to Spain then we get what he's truly worth, a crummy pick down the line. Tell me how that is not fair?

Posted by: steve | August 17, 2007 8:22 AM | Report abuse

"And if they don't, does Ernie really want two first-round picks next year anyway?"

Uh, yeah...

It's easier to trade a pick rather then a player. Besides if the Wiz lose BOTH Gilbert and Jamison next year then those two first rounders look pretty good don't they?

This is the first time I don't agree with EG, this trade stinks. All because Gil and Stevenson are good buddies?

Com'on Ernie. :(

Glad Jarvis Hayes got picked up by Detriot, at least he went to a winning team.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | August 17, 2007 8:30 AM | Report abuse


EG really made a dumb trade. I can understand at most 3 years of lottery protection but 6 years!!! C'mon!! What a bonehead trade!! The protection extended past the lottery rounds also!!!

It's not that a team can find a "gem" in the 2nd round..it's that you miss out on a more talented player in the 1st round. For example, in this year's draft...if the Wiz stunk bad enough, they could have gotten SF/PF Green from G'town or at least the PF (?) that was picked 1 or 2 spots ahead of Nick Young.

Usually, I trust EG on player transactions but this trade didn't provide equal value to the Wiz.

The Wiz aren't going to be the top team in the Eastern Conference any time soon. They need to keep building up the arsenal and not remain stagnant in the winnning mid-tier or lower winning tier of the conference.

Posted by: Baller4Life | August 17, 2007 8:48 AM | Report abuse

If this was the best offer, then it shows what NBA gm's think of JCN. (Hint: not much)

I love the growing euro influence in the NBA, so I'm hoping he proves us wrong, but conventional wisdom says that a 27 year old, 6'3"/170 guy with no NCAA/NBA experience is not likely to make much of an impact.

Posted by: mik_smith | August 17, 2007 9:14 AM | Report abuse

I have been pretty hard on Jarvis in past blogs during the season, and I wanted him "gone" so bad. However, I must agree with Greg on his assestment of Jarvis.

Nice guy who you wanted to see succeed, but the light just never came on for him here. I think the Detroit situation is perfect for him. As Greg said, I can also see him finally finding his shot there too.
Believe it or not, what you see from Nick Young now is somewhat how Jarvis use to play in college. I don't know what happened to him here (i.e. other then the injuries).

Do your thing Jarvis and I hope you finally "find" that shot you have been looking for the past 4 years, along with your explosion and hops you had in college . Just don't find all of it when you are playing the Wiz.

Posted by: Bullets Fever | August 17, 2007 9:45 AM | Report abuse

OK. I'm wailing, Kalorama. The disturbing line in Ivan's blog is this "Ernie never seriously considered signing Navarro ". A GM should consider ALL possible moves to improve the team. This deal sucks as bad as I suspected it would. Horrible deal for the Wiz but it's over and no use crying about it. After this blog, I will no longer b*tch about how we gave up Jeff Hornacek for a 2nd round pick and cash considerations 7 years from now. Seriously, though....I am a EG fan but we dropped the soap on this one. How do you NOT consider a guy who was the MVP of his league and one of the stars of the team that won the world championship? I'm not saying definitely sign him but to not even consider him when we are in need of a 2 guard? That's poor management. Our window of opportunity is not huge and we need guys who can play NOW. I understand that we'd drafted Young as our future at SG but does anyone think that Young can outplay JCN now? C'mon, EG. Even if you didn't consider him, how do you let that slip out? It makes us look like fools...especially if it turns out that the guy can play. Listen, I don't have a man crush on JCN but I want to win. Anyone that can help us should be looked at.

Posted by: mark | August 17, 2007 9:49 AM | Report abuse

With so many protections, I don't know how much an "asset" this is. In today's NBA, teams prefer a high 2nd rounder over a low first rounder anyway. A first rounder would demand 3 yr guaranteed money while 2nd rounder does not. So a high 2nd round is much less risky than a low 1st round while not much drop-off in talent (and the team can still hold the player's right even when he becomes restricted FA).

Posted by: Sagaliba | August 17, 2007 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Everyone moaning about the trade will also be complaining about this team's defensive weaknesses in a few months. How exactly would Navarro make this team a contender?
Signing him would have meant the following: not signing Stevenson and/or not giving any PT to Young to see if he can develop.
Also, Navarro signed a ONE YEAR DEAL! He becomes a restricted free agent after this year, which would have meant we would possibly have had to pay him serious money at the same time we would be signing Gilbert.
Is shooting guard the position we want to commit serious dollars down the road? Wouldn't it be smarter to save the dollars to eventually upgrade at the PF or center position? And whether Navarro is a star or not at Memphis someone will be itching to pay him after this season and Memphis will have to step up with a long term deal to keep Gasol happy. By the way, if we signed him to a one year deal and Gasol was still with Memphis next year it is likely they might overpay him to keep Pau smiling.
I wish there were better offers out there but give the situation, Ernie did the best he could. If he had gone back to Barcelona and the buyout increased meaning he was in Europe for a few more years, you all would be moaning we gave him up for nothing.

Posted by: arnie | August 17, 2007 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Mark, I agree with you. We never had a chance to find out how good JCN could be. Seems like less-than-thorough preparation on Ernie's part, although that's not his style; Ernie's usualy supremely prepared. It does seem that Ernie showed his hand too early on this.

I am *delighted* Jarvis Hayes is gone. He's a zero, plain and simple. I'm also glad Detroit picked him up - let him hurt them rather than us. It also means his biggest fan -- Eddie Jordan -- won't be able to give him 30 minutes a game to jack up horrible J after horrible J. Last year, I seriously wanted Jarvis to miss his first few jumpers. I knew if he hit one or two in a row, he'd think he was on fire and shoot at will.

Have you ever seen a player more allergic to going to the hole?

Posted by: Keithinator | August 17, 2007 10:24 AM | Report abuse

All this "asset" talk kind of misses the point. The Wizards traded an asset (the draft rights to Navarro) for a different asset (the conditional draft pick). Navarro threatened to return to Spain and never look back on the NBA if he wasn't signed this summer, but I view that as a negotiating tactic with no truth.

So, if Ernie intends to trade the pick, the question is what is the bigger "asset" in the minds of teams with which the Wizards might hope to trade: The conditional Memphis pick or the draft rights to Navarro? I obviously don't have the answer, but that's the important question.

If Ernie intends to keep and use the pick, then he must believe that whatever player he will get with the pick will help the Wizards more than Navarro could help the Wizards. That could be because that pick will be a better player, because the Wizards don't need more players now, but might in the future, so a future pick is more valuable, etc.

Posted by: Sean | August 17, 2007 10:27 AM | Report abuse

I think Grunfeld blew it with this deal. I've never been impressed with D. Stevenson and was excited when the Wizards could have signed possibly the best shooting guard in Europe. After all, read what the Memphis GM said about him,

``Juan Carlos is a proven commodity,'' Grizzlies general manager Chris Wallace said. ``He's one of the elite players on the international and European scenes. He's got significant big game experience. He's a tremendous competitor. He's an attacking basketball player. He can shoot from long range. He's got a great runner in the lane. He's very proficient with that shot. He passes the ball well. He can play both backcourt spots

Grunfeld wanted a young, unproven guy who has potential, versus an established international star who is only 27 years old. All of us can make a list of more than a hundred guys who failed to reach their potential in the NBA. I happen to think Stevenson will fall into that group. This should be an interesting season that might illustrate that Grunfeld made a big time mistake.

Robert

Posted by: Robert | August 17, 2007 10:29 AM | Report abuse

I'd agree with Ivan's assessment that Grunfeld wasn't really interested in an extra 1st round pick next year. We've got a young core of guys that we are looking to develope over the next couple of seasons.
The more I watch Grunfeld work the more respect that I have for the guy. I'm not talking about the "Love" or the "Hate" that some on here often refer to, just respect for a guy that knows how to conduct his business and does it very well.
Grunfeld's primary goal in this job is to build a champion. His secondary goal is to become a playoff contender every year because playoff tickets are what makes your owner money. If you can create excitment and fill the house during the regular season, then those playoff games are almost pure profit for your owner.
Ernie's done this a couple of times before, to him getting us to the level we're at, well, he could probably go to Atlanta or Charlotte and do it in a year. Putting together a team to win 40 to 45 games in this league isn't that hard for an experienced GM like Grunfeld. There are enough owners and GM's in this league that are basiclly hacks that there's always someone to fleece and put together enough talent to be middle of the pack.
But the trick is once you're in the playoffs, how do you accumulate enough talent to get you over the top? In an age of salary cap and Luxury Tax how do you manage both to allow the big strike to acquire the final peice needed for a title run?
Unlike those who have been posting here saying that Ernie has got to do "something" this summer that our window is closing, Grunfeld is building toward a title run in a couple of years. He's looking at our window as being more likely from 2009 to 2011.
Of our core players, only one would be considered old by then, Jamison will be approaching the age of what Robert Horry is now and could fill a very similar role for us then. 2008-09 season Butler and Arenas will be playoff tested Allstar performers nearing their prime. Blatche, Pecherov, Young and McGuire will either be hungry young vets or we'll know who to replace or trade. And we'll have next year's draft picks plus Vereemko to join the team. Some scouting reports on Vereemenko paint a physically tough rebounder and defender that has decent range on his jumper, he'll be in his mid twenties when he comes over, not a bad big to add to the mix in the Princeton. Songalia and Stevenson will still be on the right side of thirty and Etan, Haywood and Daniels will all be a year closer to the end of their deals.
At the trade deadline that year or the next summer Ernie sits with three contracts that expire worth about 18-20m, a top 14 protected pick from Memphis from 2010 to 2012, all of our picks and all of the other assests listed above. An other words enough ammo to pull a major deal if needed. The kind of deal that could put a very good team over the top to being a championship contender.
Rome wasn't built in a day neither were the Spurs, we can't expect someone is going to give us a diamond for what we have to offer now. If Navarro is any where near the player that many on this site predict, he and Gasol along with Milicic, Conley and Lowry could help the Grizzlies make run at the playoffs as soon as this year. They were just in the playoffs a year ago, there is some talent there.
I'm more inclined to think he's in many ways similar to Juan Dixon, in the right system and the right role he'll be a solid pro. In the short term Ernie got him out west and away from the Heat where he could have been deadly as a complement to Shaq and Wade, on that team he could have been a near Allstar player when you look at how effective Kapono was there.
Time will tell how good of a trade this was when we see what Grunfeld is able to do with the assest he acquired for a player that he didn't have the cash to sign or a clear role for here.
In the meantime we'll be a good middle of the pack playoff team with a group of young players that could mature and make us better. Pecherov, Young, Blatche, and McGuire will be the keys to this team improving this year. If Songalia can give Jordan solid minutes from day one we might be able to sqeeze enough out of Haywood and Etan in the post to actually be pretty good.

Posted by: GM | August 17, 2007 10:33 AM | Report abuse

"Have you ever seen a player more allergic to going to the hole?

Posted by: Keithinator | August 17, 2007 10:24 AM "

Given that statement, I guess AB has no allergies at all (pun intended). Just go ask the vice cop.

Posted by: DC Man88 | August 17, 2007 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Hey Ivan,
I respect the move because I think Ernie is a fantastic GM and as I have previously mentioned, he has only made one bad move in his career witht he Wiz so far and that's giving Etan mo money.
I think though that this guarantee is not so great because many prospects do not have high regard for Navarro as a high impact player. This most likely means the Griz will have an awful record and Gausol with demand a trade even after his boy has returned. I think that the Wiz should've bargained for higher than top-19 protected, but the developing players is def a consideration.
I am happy that Ruffin is gone and we have a deeper bench to help us in the playoffs. Cheers Ivan and if you speak to Ernie mention to him that I want a job working for the Wiz as a prospect seeker. I have consistently analyze games and am a mathematician. I may help long-term?!

Posted by: Dave | August 17, 2007 10:41 AM | Report abuse

"Grunfeld is building toward a title run in a couple of years. He's looking at our window as being more likely from 2009 to 2011."

GM I usually agree with you but I don't this time. Jordan's job is on the line THIS season and Jamison isn't getting any younger.

So what happens if the Wiz "tank it" this year, Jordan gets fired, and Gil gets mad and leaves along with Jamison?

The Wiz have nothing to show for it. :(

No picks, no Juan Carlos Navarro, no nothing.

And before any of you say "Oh, Gilbert isn't leaving!" just remember on how EG came in low on other players and how they got upset and signed elsewhere.

The Wiz need to win now, at the very least for thier coaches sake if not thier own.

This just leaves a bad taste in my mouth all the way around. You don't sign Stevenson to make Gil happy because he can turn around and leave just as easily. EG really wimped out on this one. He should have kept Navarro's rights and called thier bluff, at least until he got something better. I mean what did the Wiz really get out of this anyway?

- Ray

PS - The Spurs is a bad analogy. They have one of the best big men in the game and took a chance on international players who paid off big time. I see Navarro being the same kind of player.

Posted by: Ray | August 17, 2007 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Mike in SD. I thought your line was funny but it's a bit rude to insult people that legitimately care about the team.
When Wes Unseld ran this office... we made some G-d awful trades... Chris webber for nothing being one of them. Ernie is so far very successful and has not made bad decisions. I watched some footage of JCN and he is not someone that would mesh in the Wiz offense. He isn't as explosive inside, and likes to shoot. We didn't need another run 'n gun player, who btw plays bad D. Stevenson was the obvious role player who understood his position. It was a smart Team-building move.

Posted by: BTW | August 17, 2007 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Don't be fooled for a second: this trade is not about picks and players, it's about money. Money saved by not signing JCN (could have happened - forget what dollars he was seeking, look at what he's actually going to get from Memphis). And money earned with the pick they got. When Ernie said "asset," he didn't mean in terms of trade value, he meant in terms of a cash receivable. Forget turning around and trading this pick later in the offseason - it might not be our property for six years! No one will give up squat for it today!

NBA teams look at late first rounders as cash. With the lottery protection in place, there is no upside to the pick, so any team looking to acquire it from us views it as money, not as a player. Just look at the Suns: sold their first rounders the last two years for $3 million each (the max allowed cash exchange in the NBA). Then they gave up TWO future first rounders just to shed Kurt Thomas' $8 million contract this summer. But at least the Suns are contenders.

I think EG was told not to get the most he could, but make the most he could for JCN. He probably would have sold him to whomever was willing to pay $3 million straight up, but either a) no team would considering he still needed a contract and a buyout paid, or b) he didn't want to make it that obvious that the team is driven by the bottom line rather than the standings.

So what did we really get for JCN? Rumor is he's going to get paid the minimum in Memphis for one year, but let's say we could have signed him for one year on the bi-annual ($1.8 million). Plus we saved our contribution to his buyout ($500K). Then we got the pick, although who knows when it will come so have to factor in time value of money. All told, it's $4-$5 million in total. Not bad for a 2002 2nd round pick that was worth around $500K at the time (what teams usually pay for 2nd rounders).

This team is busch league. Look at all the other big market East Coast teams - NYK, Boston, Philly, New Jersey - they all have recently, are now, are will soon creep into luxury tax territory. But that's not even the issue here. With as shrewd as EG is, I guarantee JCN could have been signed without paying the tax.

Say what you want about Dan Synder but at least he cares enough about his team and - more importantly - his fans (customers) to spend money. It just makes it that much easier to shell out absurd amounts of money to a sports team when you know the owner does the same.

If only a GM like Ernie would team up with an owner like Synder, we might actually see another championship come to DC in my lifetime.

Posted by: SK | August 17, 2007 10:53 AM | Report abuse

"Don't be fooled for a second: this trade is not about picks and players, it's about money. "

Was anyone actually fooled by this? Even for a second?

Of course it's about money. It's always been about money. And anyone who's actually been paying attention (as opposed to spinning fantasy yarns in their heads in which Navarro was going to be traded for a lottery pick and an all-star) knew it was about money all along.

That doesn't change the fact that getting a first round pick (however conditional) for a 27-year old rookie taken in the second round who was never going to play for us anyway is a better deal than letting him go back to Europe with nothing to show for it.

And those were really the only options.

Posted by: kalorama | August 17, 2007 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Whoa, SK. Pretty convincing argument. You might just be right about the reasoning behind JCN. I can't imagine EG would not see JCN's true value. He's too smart for that. There must have been some motivation (financial) for just letting him go. Also, like someone else wrote, it sems to me that the better Memphis does and JCN plays, the better our compensation should be. If they make the playoffs this year due in part to JCN, we should be getting a high 1st for him. I've said before and I'll say it one last time...If we'd kept his rights, we would have been able to get him next year and the demand would be even higher. The reason his Spanish team let him out of his contract was because he asked them to do so. They would have done it again next year. We'd have had the option to sign him with AJ's contract coming off and more money available. A 28 year old experienced guard is just as valuable than a 27 year old experienced guard. For those who keep talking about how poor JCN's defense is, how many guys did Gil shut down ? Deshawn? Every scouting report we saw on Nick Young talked about how he has the tools to lpay D but never did it. BTW, did our point guards torch JCN when they kicked our azz during international play? I don't remember. Our D is poor because there's no help. I'd rather have a guy who scores more than he gives up (JCN possibly) than a guy who gives up more than he scores (DS)

Posted by: mark | August 17, 2007 11:16 AM | Report abuse

I'm with you, Ray, though for different reasons.
As has been discussed on this board before, if Grunfeld truly "is building toward a title run in a couple of years," with the cap situation, the only way that's going to happen is a couple guys from this group -- Blatche, Pecherov, Young, Stevenson, McGuire -- turn into big time players, and the Wizards upgrade both their defense and the center position. What are the odds that is going to happen, especially with no cap room to add free agents? You will need a trade where you steal from another team.

Posted by: Sean | August 17, 2007 11:17 AM | Report abuse


A surprising bit of data reported on the Griz forum on RealGM.com. According to comments on that forum, JCN signed a 1-year contract with the Griz for 1.1M. I don't see how that it possible unless JCN's old team waived (not simply reduced) the buy out in its entirety.

Perhaps the Griz had a sweetheart deal due to Gasol's presence on the team and the reported agreement of the Griz to play some pre-season games in Spain.

In any event, I certainly never heard any suggestion that the Wiz could sign him on those terms. If the Wiz could have signed JCN on those terms, it really would have been a steal.

Can anyone shed light on this situation?

If true, the Griz

Posted by: DanPeter | August 17, 2007 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Kalorama - I don't know why you say JCN never wanted to play for us anyway. His camp never demanded a trade, it was us who declared we had no interest in signing him. He seemed to indicate he wanted to play here, albeit for $3-$4 million a season. Now, it may be true that he is willing to play for less in Memphis, but if he takes the minimum from them? Can't believe EG couldn't have let him try to set his contract value in the market, then gotten him for the bi-annual for a year or two IF we had broadcast an intention to have him play for us all along.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2007 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Sorry - that last post was me again

Posted by: Sk | August 17, 2007 11:25 AM | Report abuse

EG is not a "great GM" his pattern is to get 3 guys who can play together then put 9 stiffs around them , usually bacause of a stingy owner (i.e. here and Milwaukee). He has abandoned E. Jordan (clearly wanted Haywood gone), all assitants got one year deals, and is gambling that Gilbert and Jamison will take the "old hometown discount". This wasn't a good or bad move, JCN was an unknown to the Wiz and they couldn't unload ET's contract in the deal. So the Wiz didn't do anything to the salary cap and got rid of an unknown. It was a push.

Posted by: wizhead | August 17, 2007 11:36 AM | Report abuse

comment

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2007 11:38 AM | Report abuse

"Kalorama - I don't know why you say JCN never wanted to play for us anyway."

Your confusion may have had something to do with the fact that I never said that.

I said he was never going to play for the Wiz. He wasn't, because Grunfeld had already determined that using their available FA money on Stevenson and (presumably) Blatche was a higher priority, thus leaving Navarro out in the cold.

Posted by: kalorama | August 17, 2007 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Maybe EG put in a quiet kicker to get Darko on 12/15 for the pick back + one of our 5's ?

Posted by: HH | August 17, 2007 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Deal suckssssssss....JCN would have been a top 7 or 8 pick in this years (2207) draft. Big mistake....you will watch and bum out completely when you see what he can do. He is alot better than Dixon, but not as good as AI. He was the bench scoring we and Gilbert hav been wanting, and I don't want to hear about NY1, Mcguire, and Opec. None of them has ever played a minute in the NBA and at least half of all first round picks are busts. Not a good feeling going into the weekend.
Still luv the Wiz, but upset we did not find a way to get JCN in a Wiz uni.

Posted by: surfer | August 17, 2007 11:58 AM | Report abuse

2007 draft....oops

Posted by: Surfer | August 17, 2007 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Kaloroma - as the dust is settling, it turns out JCN is coming much cheaper than we expected. Looks like we could have had him for the bi-annual (or less), if we had only taken a firm position that we wanted him to play for us and us only (even though are hands are tied and $1.8 mill is all we could offer). Turns out this wasn't an either/or with Stevenson/Blatche on oneside and JCN on the other. That's what Ivan and everyone else believed at the time, but if JCN is taking something like $1.1 million from Memphis, we could have had all three of them. Having an owner who will NEVER pay the luxury tax and would rather have an extra $3 million in his pocket is what precluded us from signing JCN.

Posted by: SK | August 17, 2007 12:02 PM | Report abuse

THIS IS THE WORST DEAL IN THE HISTORY OF DEALS. The Wizards may not end up receiving a pick until 2013? That's a whole new generation! The Grizzlies will never be a good team in that time span!

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2007 12:08 PM | Report abuse

"The Wizards may not end up receiving a pick until 2013?"

No, the Wizards is not even guaranteed to have a pick in 2013. It can be a 2nd round plus cash in 2014!

Quite frankly, I'd tempt to take a 2nd round plus cash outright and not wait till 2014. LOL

Posted by: Sagaliba | August 17, 2007 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Amen, SK. We should have had both DS and JCN. With JCN under contract, it would have been easier to push for a package deal with Memphis to get rid of Etan if we were so inclined. (Swift/Etan+JCN). The fact that EG said up front that we were not signing JCN killed our bargaining position. No wonder we got no good offers. EG drove down JCN's trade value. We should have been telling everyone wh would listen that we were trying feverishly to get JCN under contract but still keeping the phone lines open. This is not a sign of a GM who people claim to be top 5 in the league. I still like EG, but he went arse-up on this deal.

Posted by: mark | August 17, 2007 12:22 PM | Report abuse

SK,

And my point still remains:

The decisions was made that the team was not going to go over the tax (or get anywhere near it). The Wiz weren't going to sign all 3 of them, the money was going to be parsed out between two. Navarro was the odd man out.

(And it's real easy to be cavalier about an "an extra $3 million" when it's coming out of someone else's pocket.)

And just because he took less money to play in Memphis (where he'll likely have a larger role and play with his buddy Gasol) does not, in any way, mean he would have agreed to the same money to play for the Wiz.

Posted by: kalorama | August 17, 2007 12:25 PM | Report abuse

I think people are really taking this JCN thing really seriously. As far as I know no one can predict the future so no one knows how JCN will turn out. So stop saying that the Wizards made a bad choice when for all we know could turn out to be a complete bum.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2007 12:25 PM | Report abuse

When I sayed "bum" I was talking about JCN

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2007 12:27 PM | Report abuse

"He is alot better than Dixon, but not as good as AI. "

A cavernously wide chunk of ground that could easily describe any number of NBA journeymen and bench warmers past and present.

"I don't want to hear about NY1, Mcguire, and Opec. None of them has ever played a minute in the NBA and at least half of all first round picks are busts."

How many minutes has Navarro played in the NBA? (No calculators allowed.) What percentage of second round picks are busts?

Posted by: kalorama | August 17, 2007 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Anon,
Everyone including Durant and Oden are unknown quantities til they play and prove themselves. The reason I think it was a bad move was because the perception of JCN is that he is a decent player since he proved himself against US competition and internationally. Imagine what Seattle fans would be saying if they had traded Durant's rights for someone like Caron Butler. Even though Caron is young an an all star, I bet Seattle's GM would have been universally trashed. That's because everyone's perception of Durant is that he's gonna be great. I think we could have generated some buzz about JCN to get more for him. I would rather have kept him but I realize this was never gonna happen. That being the case, at least get something of immediate value for him. By the time we get that pick from Memphis (assuming 2013), EG and EJ will both be gone. Abe will be 90 and may no longer be with us. AJ will be gone. Gil will be in his early 30's with LOTS of mileage on him, etc. That pick means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to this present Wiz team. If we have to gamble and let JCN go back to Spain in hopes that we can get him next year, so be it. Worse case, he goes back, never comes here and this present team is unaffected. Our present scenario: He's gone, will never come here and this present team is unaffected. Take the gamble !

Posted by: mark | August 17, 2007 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Excellent post by GM. Ernie knows this current team is still a work in progress and lacks the interior toughness, defense and rebounding from the PF & center position. He is hoping to get some of that eventually from Blatche and Pech and McGuire but no one can expect them to be major contributors until 2008-9. Sure Eddie may be gone by then, but the pieces carefully put together by Ernie will still be here (assuming Gil stays. You can be sure that Ernie knows that somewhere, somehow this team has to get tougher and tighter inside to really contend and Navarro didn't offer that possibility.

Posted by: arnie | August 17, 2007 1:07 PM | Report abuse

I thought Navarro was drafted in the second round? that is his value. that EG got a possible first round out of the deal is good enough for me.

Posted by: rgz | August 17, 2007 1:07 PM | Report abuse

rgz,

The reason why JCN was a 2nd rounder is because nobody expected him to come to NBA (and he didn't until now, many year later). Had he announced he was coming to NBA, his draft position would have been higher.

Posted by: Sagaliba | August 17, 2007 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Sagaliba,

That's just speculation with no real factual basis behind it. And even if his position had been higher, there's still no guarantee he would have been a first round pick. Most of the published scouting reports have him as a 6th man dedicated scorer. Guys like that are frequently taken in the second round.

Posted by: kalorama | August 17, 2007 1:34 PM | Report abuse

I would really like the Wiz to get better this year. I hope the draft picks will pan out quickly. We have not had the best luck developing them, that is for sure. We typically outsource that function to the competition (think Detroit).

Concerning JCN, when people say that it was a good deal for the Wiz, I disagree. Trading him may have been the right move, but having the pick be more protected than the Green Zone is ridiculous!!! Keep in mind that the pick is pretty tightly protected up to 2013 and is decided by how well the Grizzlies do. It has nothing to do with how well JCN plays. He can put up numbers like MJ, but if as a team they can't put it all together (ala early MJ days), then we get bupkiss (sp?).

It would be ironic if JCN turns into an All-Star and gets traded back to an Eastern team (along with PG) while the Griz remain in the cellar as we continue to wait and wait and wait and wait for a second round draft pick that we could potentally use in another great trade.

Sorry, Ernie.

Posted by: Greg | August 17, 2007 1:47 PM | Report abuse

So since Boozer and Arenas were drafted in the 2nd round, that's their value ? Uhh no. Your value is based on the demand for your services. Was Juwan's value 7 years for 105 million ? Yeah since that's what someone offered. I guess you could argue that JCN's value was only a late 1st since that's what was offered. I still think we coulda held out.

Posted by: mark | August 17, 2007 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Count me as one of those wailing. To have no opportunity for a top 10 pick with this deal, I am with mark and SK on this one, I would've rather seen Navarro go back to Barcelona then make this deal. I really thought EG would be able to put the squeeze on the Grizzlies.
I wonder if Gasol convinced JCN to ask for $3-4 mill per if he was going to play for the Wizards (knowing that Washington wouldn't pay it), but they had an understanding that if Navarro was dealt to the Grizz he would take a small deal. Wouldn't that be tampering?

Posted by: George Templeton | August 17, 2007 2:12 PM | Report abuse

kalorama,

Of course it is a speculation! But to say that his value is a 2nd rounder today is also a speculation without factual basis!

However, this much is true.
1. In NBA, future assets are valued less than current assets. For instance, a 1st rounder in the far away future is not worth as much as current or near future 1st round pick.
2. It was known that JCN would not be available at the year he was drafted.
3. At the time JCN was drafted, people weren't even sure he would ever come to NBA. So the risk factor associated with him was higher than just judgment of his talent (i.e., even assume he has talent to be a star in NBA, if he never come, then his value to NBA team is 0).

So my speculation is a logical conclusion based on the above facts. (Note, I didn't say he would be a first rounder, even though you tried to put words into my mouth. I said "his draft position would have been higher!"

How much higher, we don't know. But 10 positions higher would be 1st round.

Posted by: Sagaliba | August 17, 2007 2:33 PM | Report abuse

"But to say that his value is a 2nd rounder today is also a speculation without factual basis!"

No, actually, it's not.

Until he actually plays and proves he's worth more (or less) his only intrinsic value is the value of the pick with which he was taken. That was number 40, in the second round.

"1. In NBA, future assets are valued less than current assets. For instance, a 1st rounder in the far away future is not worth as much as current or near future 1st round pick."

none of which has any relevance to Navarro since he was, as we've determined, taken in the second round.

"How much higher, we don't know. But 10 positions higher would be 1st round."

And, again, there's absolutely zero evidence he would have been taken any higher, let alone 10 spots higher.

Spec-u-la-tion

Posted by: kalorama | August 17, 2007 2:42 PM | Report abuse

"Your value is based on the demand for your services. "

And, as it has been well documented, other than the Grizzlies final deal, none of the 8 or so teams that showed interest in Navarro offered anything more than a second round pick.

Posted by: kalorama | August 17, 2007 2:44 PM | Report abuse

The man who gets paid to make these deals for the Wiz and is regarded as one of the best in the league took the best deal available. All the debating is silly really. The Wiz definitely don't need another scorer with limited defensive abilities.

Are there reasons to not want more 1st round picks immediately? Sure. It's called we are already stocked with young potential and our core is taking up most of the salary cap room. I believe Phoenix has been giving away their late 1st rounders the last couple of years bc they don't want them and can't sign them. I don't think they gotten much in return except money.

Posted by: Rob P | August 17, 2007 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Phoenix sold their picks the last couple years because their owner wanted the money, not because they couldn't sign the player. Look at San Antonio - they consistenly draft overseas players with their recent draft picks because they have a solid core and a stable of role players and so have no use/space for rookies. But they draft foreign players they can keep overseas for a couple seasons without paying (Ginobli, Udrih, this year Tiago Splitter). But at least they don't just pawn off their picks.

Point is, the Spurs and Suns are contenders and the Wiz are not. Hate to say it, but our young core isn't particularly impressive - compare Young, Pechorov, Blatche and McGuire to what most teams have waiting in the wings and there are probably 8-12 teams with a more full cabinet. We need to continue to stockpile young assets, if for no other reason that future trade fodder.

Plus, rookies (especially non-lottery picks) are about as cheap as labor comes. If you can fill out more than half your roster with guys on rookie contracts who can still contribute something to the club, then you should have plenty of money left to pay your stars and core role players.

Posted by: SK | August 17, 2007 3:18 PM | Report abuse

kalorama,

Read what I said.

JCN was drafted 2nd round in 2002, not today.

By repeating he was a 2nd round in 2002 has absolutely nothing to do with his value today!

Therefore, to say that his value is a 2nd rounder TODAY is a speculation without factual basis!

I have already stated the circumstantial difference between today and 2002, and I will not bother to respond your boring reiteration of he was a 2nd rounder in 2002 (Duh, we all know that, but please also check your calendar and see if it still read 2002)!

This is a discussion forum, not just stating something that everybody already knows.

Posted by: Sagaliba | August 17, 2007 4:35 PM | Report abuse

"By repeating he was a 2nd round in 2002 has absolutely nothing to do with his value today!"

Wrong again. His value today is not significantly different than it was in 2002 because he has done nothing in the years since (i.e. prove himself to be a capable NBA player by actually playing in the NBA) to increase that value. Things don't automatically accrue value with the passage of time. Some things lose value, some stay the same.

"This is a discussion forum, not just stating something that everybody already knows."

Like, say, stating that your conclusions about his value are pure speculation without any factual merit? Something like that?

Posted by: kalorama | August 17, 2007 5:01 PM | Report abuse

So it was basically Stevenson over Navarro?

I watch a lot of euro basketball because Im there half the year and while I cant guarantee that Navarro will be a star in the NBA, he 'knows' how to play the game and he's a winner.

I dont think anyone will ever say those two things about Stevenson.


If my job depended on it, I would let it ride with Navarro.

Posted by: Terry | August 17, 2007 8:45 PM | Report abuse

I think the wizards got all they could out of the situation. They talked to a lot of teams and the clock was ticking right up untill the end.

It very likely came down to getting what they got versus not getting ANYTHING.

The pick has value and can be used or traded to make the team better.

Posted by: whocares | August 17, 2007 10:06 PM | Report abuse

You people are hilarious. You got a 1st round pick however protected for a second round pick you made 5 years ago. That sound like a win to me and anybody else with GOOD sense. And stop with the you wont see the pick until 2013 have you seen the grizz roster from top to bottom. you will have that pick no later than 2008/2009. The core was the same core that won 50 games 2 years ago. Gasol missed 23 games. how did you do when gil went down???? imagine it was the beginnig of the season. Mike Miller missed 12. Stro (which you can have) missed 28 games. and kyle lowry whose gonna be a beast. missed 72 games. and Damon missed 20 games. The Grizz were awful last year yes but if 4 of your starting 5 missed avg of 20 games you would suck too. My point stop crying you'll get your pick if not next season the one after.

Posted by: Memphis Finest | August 18, 2007 12:30 AM | Report abuse

Finally someone that sees the "BIG picture", some people just want to have something to complain about. EG did a great job of getting a first round pick for a player that has never played a minute in the NBA and yes I wish we were able to get a better deal for him but getting a first rounder is better than getting nothing. The team dosen't need another person to score, there are plenty there D and rebounding are what's needed can anyone name the last guard to avg 10 RPG and 2 BPG? With the drafting of Young and D-Mac we have more young talent to try and devlope as scorers. BH and ET are not worth mentioning as players since they don't have a clue what the phrase consistency means except to consistently disappoint us. Everyone talks about trading for a quality 5 but name a quality 5 that isn't named Shaq. I hope the Grizz make the playoffs and get the 20th - 23rd pick this year and we are able to package both of the first round picks to move up and grab a quality 5 prospect.

Posted by: Sandman357 | August 18, 2007 3:23 AM | Report abuse

What everyone is missing is that Grunfeld made the trade with freakin' Chris Wallace. Before knowing the details I would tell you as a Celtics fan that hands down the Wizards will win this deal.

Wallace's Celtics highlights:

1) Trading for a max contract drunk Vin Baker
2) Trading Joe Johnson to the Suns for valuable 7th/8th men Tony Delk/Rodney Rogers
3) Drafting Joe Forte with the plan of turning him into a PG when Tony Parker was available and the best PG on the board
4) Exercised the option to use Denver's first round pick (#11 overall) in 2001 to draft Kedrick Brown. He could have rolled the pick over to 2002 where the Nuggets picked #5 overall (Amare/Caron/etc.), or 2003 where the Nuggets picked third and took Melo.
5) Drafted Jerome Moiso at #11 overall
6) Traded Chauncey Billups in the middle of his rookie year after drafting him #3 overall (traded for Kenny Anderson)


And these are just his most notable moves. In 6 years as Celts GM, I don't see one great move.
http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/chris_wallace.htm

Posted by: Meeks | August 18, 2007 10:42 AM | Report abuse

1. JCN was only a 2nd rounder.

2. the Griz may become good with next yr's no.1 pick (likely a very high one).

3. a healthy Gasol, Conley (& JCN) maybe good enough to make Griz good.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 18, 2007 3:57 PM | Report abuse

I hate how everyone talks about the wizards as being about a 6 seed this coming season. we are amazing. i think we will at least get number four because we will win our division. the heat is too old and orlando too young. last year if we didnt have those injuries we woulda ended with about 50 wins. thats how many cleveland had and they made it to the finals. now our team will have all the same pieces again and nick young too. i think we could make it to the finals.

Posted by: ben | August 18, 2007 8:31 PM | Report abuse

I hate how everyone talks about the wizards as being about a 6 seed this coming season. we are amazing. i think we will at least get number four because we will win our division. the heat is too old and orlando too young. last year if we didnt have those injuries we woulda ended with about 50 wins. thats how many cleveland had and they made it to the finals. now our team will have all the same pieces again and nick young too. i think we could make it to the finals.

Posted by: ben | August 18, 2007 8:31 PM | Report abuse

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