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Navarro update

I saw the report that is out there detailing what the Wizards are supposed to get back from Memphis in the JCN trade but I haven't been able to confirm it yet. I spoke to someone with the team last night and they said the trade's details were still being worked out. I heard the same from someone in Memphis last night.

I'll say this: if that report is true (it was linked on my last blog entry), it doesn't look all that good for the Wizards. I'll update as soon as more information becomes available.

I have a friend who called me this morning and said he saw Gilbert and DeShawn playing in a really competitive game at Barry Farms last night. Word is that Gilbert was taking it somewhat easy but also flashed some explosive moves and generally looked good on that surgically repaired knee. Assuming that Gilbert continues to get stronger and build his level of conditioning, it would appear that we'll be seeing 100 percent hibachi come the Oct. 31 season opener at Indiana.

I wonder whether Jermaine O'Neal will be in a Pacers uniform that night? Don't you have a feeling that Kobe is going to put serious pressure on the Lakers to make some kind of move after watching Kevin Garnett get moved to Boston?



By Ivan Carter  |  August 7, 2007; 12:33 PM ET
 
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Next: The deal with the Navarro deal (kind of)

Comments

It's Tuesday. This JCN trade has been in the works for about two weeks now, and the "deadline" was last Friday. If they haven't got it worked out yet, why do we believe that they ever will?

Posted by: KK | August 7, 2007 12:48 PM | Report abuse

From what I have been hearing, I don't see what the Wiz are really getting in return. Especially, if the draft picks are protected. Can someone explain to me why the Wiz would make this trade and what does Memphis have to give to the Wiz that will make this deal worth something to the Wiz.

Thanks!

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 1:05 PM | Report abuse

keithinator,

1.Gilbert flipped a coin and it landed on denver luckily he is so wierd he picked washington.

2.I gave you caron

3. I like jamison but we gave up to much for him. The #5 pick, stack and latner. We could have taken Deng who is better then jamison straight up and we could still have stack.

4. Songalia solid nothing to amazing but I like him off the bench

5. Stevenson good signing but we could have gotten a better player in JCN for cheaper.

6. As for young, pech, mcguire they have never stepped foot on an NBA court. they all look solid but they all could be busts as well.

7. Blatche looks good as well but still hasnt developed and now hes getting arested and lying about it.

8. He offered hughes a late offfer for more than the cavs but he didnt take it b/c he thought he got lowballed in the 1st place and he thought cleveland was closer to a championship.

So i still feel the same way besides Caron what has he done? Got lucky with gilby and hughes??

I like Grunfeld just don't see all the hype and why people consider him a top 5 GM.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 1:07 PM | Report abuse

This trade is classic Bullets. Trade a talented player for bupkis. Abe Pollin can't die soon enough.

Posted by: sammy_the_bull | August 7, 2007 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Now that the trade has already happened EG has no leverage whatsoever. So I very much doubt we'd get much better than what Memphis has already dictated. Maybe EG can pull everything back and say no, this is giving up too much, I'm sending JCN back to Spain.

Posted by: Zonker | August 7, 2007 1:15 PM | Report abuse

"3. I like jamison but we gave up to much for him. The #5 pick, stack and latner. We could have taken Deng who is better then jamison straight up and we could still have stack."

Stackhouse was a locker room headache who didn't want to be here. Remember the infamous "I'm shutting it down" incident? The dude faked/exaggerated an injury to get out of playing because he was embarrased by losing. That's not a guy you want to keep around.

Deng is younger than Jamison and more athletic. He's also very much a work in progress. The Wizards would not have made the playoffs the last 3 years with Deng in Jamison's place.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Forgot to say, Thanks for the knowledge Ivan!

Posted by: Zonker | August 7, 2007 1:18 PM | Report abuse

the suspense of waiting for the trade details is killing us. maybe its the buyout that's complicating matters. that said, there's still the matter of heywood, and thomas still being on the same team. and i don't want to hear that BTH had a talk with EJ this summer and now they are on the same page. we have to make a move with one of those 5's. problem is their contracts make them virtually untradeable.

Posted by: G$ | August 7, 2007 1:25 PM | Report abuse

When he got here, EG needed to change the culture as much as the talent on the team. Do you remember what a mess they were in the aftermath of the MJ fiasco?

So he flew to the West Coast hours after Ernie was hired to show Glibert his commitment. The coin flip wouldn't have mattered without that.

He turned Kwame, one of our most embarassing picks, the symbol of Wizards mediocrity, into a tough-minded, young All-Star. A deal that at the time most of the media talked about as an advantage to the Lakers.

Jamison is the clubhouse leader, as well as being named to more all-star teams than Deng. Deng is good, but he's a more replaceable talent on a team that desperately needs *someone* to score.

We have no way to know that JCN is going to be better than DeShawn. It sure doesn't sound like his game would have fit on the team, even if we decided we could afford him. Actually, even if he does turn out to be a better player, DeShawn is still probably a better fit.

As for Hughes, he wasn't lucky. He had his line, and Cleveland outbid him. What's wrong with that? He showed restraint. If we got Hughes, I'm sure that many other moves would have been different. (And JCN wouldn't fit with him either.)

EG is building more than just a collection of basketball talent -- he's piecing together a winning environment by showing commitment, decisive against-the-grain thinking, fiscal responsibility, an understanding of how the parts fit on a team, and attention to clubhouse leadership. I don't know the other GMs well enough to say that he's a top 5 guy, but I can think of very few other GMs I'd rather have.

Posted by: SnrFrijole | August 7, 2007 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Kalorama: Do you have ANY support for any of your statements: "Stackhouse was a locker room headache who didn't want to be here. Remember the infamous "I'm shutting it down" incident? The dude faked/exaggerated an injury to get out of playing because he was embarrased by losing. That's not a guy you want to keep around."

Fact is that Stackhouse had a knee injury entering the summer. The Wizards crack medical team told him to rest it and it would be fine. Stack rested it and it wasn't fine. So in the Fall he had surgery. The medical team told him what to do to get it better post-surgery, and he had a lot of ups and downs. Frustrated with his knee after a game, he said he was shutting it down for the rest of the season. Anyone who has ever played sports and has struggled with any injury can identify with that frustration. He and Grunfeld talked, and Stack was back on the court the next game. And Stackhouse is a key player on one of the best teams in the league -- yeah, sounds like a real cancer.

Posted by: Sean | August 7, 2007 1:53 PM | Report abuse

deng was also picked 7th, not with the wizards 5th pick. devin harris wouldnt have been picked by the wiz, but the fact that you keep saying deng dilutes the fact that the wiz probably would have picked childress, as he was the 6th pick, or maybe sebastian telfair or rafael araujo or luke jackson or robert swift or....

Posted by: CreditZard | August 7, 2007 1:56 PM | Report abuse

There was plenty written about Stack's unhappiness with the team at the time and in the wake of the trade. It's a matter of record. Either you read it or you didn't. No big to me either way. But just because you claim not to know it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

And the fact that he's happy in Dallas means jack-all in terms of whether he was happy here. Two completely different situations separated by several years.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 1:59 PM | Report abuse

If you all get a chance, take a look on truehoops.com at the comments after the navarro column. Just about everyone thinks we got fleeced if the deal that has been rumored is indeed true. not good.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 2:03 PM | Report abuse

what a profoundly disappointing summer this has been. the wizards didn't get better in any aspect of the game except, probably, bench depth. from tom thibodeau stepping down immediately after joining EJ's staff, to being unable to unload either of our mediocre-at-best centers, to letting an asset like JCN get away for nothing (this isn't the NFL - late first round picks are hardly a sure thing), it just seems that at every turn this summer, things have not gone as they should have. we pray that EG will take that first rounder, package it, and deal it for something better, but if these last few months are any indication, don't hold your breath. i love the wizards but boy am i feeling more depressed about next year now than i did in, say, early june. and the elephant in the room is: if the wiz don't take the next step next year, and especially if pollin/EG dump EJ as a result, what incentive does gil have to stay past next year? maybe EG wants that first round pick for a couple years down the road because he expects the wiz to be rebuilding by then.... dammit.

Posted by: dave | August 7, 2007 2:04 PM | Report abuse

My opinion on EG hinges on what he's done lately. If he gave away JCN for that sorry package I keep reading about and if Pech , Young, Blatche, Songaula and McGuire are busts, he's below average. It's too early to tell. Before he got here we weren't in the playoffs. Since, we have been. The bottom line in this leagues is wins and we have more with him here. I guess that means he's done his job. Now whether he's top 5 are not depends upon the success of our drafted (and the failure of JCN)

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 2:09 PM | Report abuse

"I wonder whether Jermaine O'Neal will be in a Pacers uniform that night?"

He will.

LA isn't going to give up Bynum, Kobe will just have to whine a little longer.

Stackhouse just didn't want to be here because he clashed with MJ first, then the current regime. It was time for him to go, injury or not.

- Ray

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 2:10 PM | Report abuse

i dont kno y u guys keep sayin gilbert fliped a coin...gilbert came out publicly and said that he made that up...he never really did that...so u can chalk signing gilbert up to EG...that said, larry hughes left because EG would not give larry a cent more than what he felt larry was worth...larry badly wanted to stay here...but grunfeld knew he wasnt worth more than wut he had already offered...and sure enough imagine how handicapped we would have been if larry would have been signed...not to mentioned him missing at least 20 games a season..secondly ur assuming that we would have picked deng if we had the fifth pick...thats a big assumption..what if we had picked up someone else...i dont remember who else was picked that year...but its not always that u pick a player that will compensate for jamison type of player...also getting rid of laetner helped us enormously...he was wasting our precious salary cap space...even lets look at the navarro situation...barring that the reports are false of a top 19 pick...if eg has parlayed that into a draft pick it was brilliant...how many gms do u think would have had the patience and diligence to stay tru to his word and not panick as the deadline approached...i mean i think a lot of gms would have folded and just traded navarro for a 2nd round pick

Posted by: jason | August 7, 2007 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Everyone was saying at the time that Stack was unhappy in DC.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 2:20 PM | Report abuse

how about trade jamison+thomas+2 first round pick for jermain o'neal. now we will have a superstar big man who can score in the low post and a superstar point guard in Gilbert.
The starting five would be
Arenas
Stevenson
Butler
O'neal
Haywood

however, i still think we need to find a shooter...maybe keep hayes for a million since nobody seem to want him..

Posted by: NV | August 7, 2007 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Stack was unhappy in DC -- no secret about that. First, because he came to DC having been told one thing about his role, and then had Jordan and Collins change it on him. Second, Stack was unhappy because team docs misdiagnosed his knee for more than a year. They told him he had tendinitis, and it turned out he had a condition called chondromalacia (a wearing of the cartilage lining of the kneecap). He didn't fake that -- it's impossible to fake. Once the surgery was done, and Stack returned to the court, he continued to have soreness and some pain in the knee. The docs told him his knee was fine, but these were the same docs who'd told him he was suffering from tendinitis. So, after a rough game, and in pain, he said he'd shut it down. The notion that Stack was a cancer is simply false. He wasn't a great leader, and he was definitely unhappy in DC. But not a cancer.

Posted by: TSW | August 7, 2007 2:29 PM | Report abuse

The JNC trade is making no sense. Why drag it out so far away??

It seems to me the logical thing to do if it's like that... 20 down (top 19 protected), if we don't get 1 in the 1st round give us two 2nd round picks in it's place then! IMO two picks in the #31-40 range would equal one in the #20-30 range.

Heck as good as Ernie is in the 2nd round, dealing JNC to the Griz for two 2nd rounders straight up would of been fine with me. At least that way you have an actual asset, and you know what you are getting. This pick, if it's as reported does nothing for us. How can we trade a pick that might not be a pick.

It makes no sense.

Posted by: Darnell | August 7, 2007 2:31 PM | Report abuse

hey darnell u forgot to add the part where u wanted to say to trade the picks for fesenko..haha

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 2:38 PM | Report abuse

I'm not one of those guys who thinks EG is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the fact is that the guy just took a second round draft pick and traded it for a first round draft pick.

Let me repeat that for effect...he traded a second round draft pick for a first round draft pick.

And yet we still complain. Raise your hand if you've EVER seen JCN play a minute of NBA basketball...didn't think so. Everyone is basing their high opinon of Navarro's game on news articles, Euro box scores and second rate scouting reports and word of mouth. The scouts said Kwame was the next coming of Kevin Garnett. They claimed that Sabby Telfair was the future of the point guard position. Trajon Langdon sure did make the impact the scouts said he would with his "silky smooth shot" in the NBA didn't he?

The truth is that Navarro might turn out to be an All Star, but if he does get there it's going to be on the strength of his offensive game and the last thing we need on this team is ANOTHER player who wants the ball in his hands at all times and has an aversion to playing anything that resembles defense. Like someone said, Stevenson is the better fit for THIS team.

Sure we would all have liked to have seen the Wiz get more in trade, but come on guys, we took a second round pick who was not going to play for us and turned him into a first round pick. Protected or not that's still a come up.

I agree that something has to be done about the dueling centers, but don't you think attaching a first round pick (protected or not) makes one of those contracts more appealing to a potential trade partner? (Oh, and Brenden's contract isn't that bad, by the way.) Wake up and see the big picture people. A first round pick is appealing to far more GMs around the league than a nearly 30 rookie shooting guard.

EG isn't Danny Ainge (haha) but he's a VERY good GM. He's a magician for turning Kwame into an All Star. Maybe the magic isn't done. Besides, as everyone else in the conference is dealing with chemistry issues early on we won't be. We can jump out to a good lead on the rest of the conference and as they're all settling in we'll be hitting our second wind in time for a deep playoff run.

Relax people. This isn't a bad thing. If JCN had ended up back in Spain we wouldn't have been able to get anything at all.

Posted by: Woodbridge Jay | August 7, 2007 2:39 PM | Report abuse

If our side of the trade is some mid to high teen protected pick, through 2013, this might be one of the worst trades in Wizards/Bullets history.

Part of consummating a trade should be not just helping yourself more but being sure that you don't help the other team more. This helps the Grizzlies far more than the Wizards are helped by it. It would have been better to just hold JCN's rights and get nothing than help the Grizzlies more than we were helped.

Posted by: Paul | August 7, 2007 2:51 PM | Report abuse

I'd agree with your logic Paul if we were talking about trading JCN to Miami or Cleveland. Memphis is a team that is not a direct competitor.

Seriously, I don't know why all of you guys are on JCN's nuts. If you know anything about the Wizards, you would know that a back court of JCN and Gil just wouldn't work. Aren't you the same guys who were complaining during the season that we were a high-scoring no-defense team? Not to mention JCN hasn't proven a thing in the NBA, AND if were that damn good, how come everybody is missing the boat on him except Memphis? Hell, he might turn out to be a stud but he just didn't fit on our team (there's really no debate about DS vs JCN) and we've got one more first rounder than we did three months ago.

Posted by: RH | August 7, 2007 3:07 PM | Report abuse

paul - i understand you don't like the trade. but come on!! one of the worst trades in bullets/wiz history? good lord! study up on the trades we made in 90's before making that claim.
i agree w. woodbridge jay - 2nd rnd pick into a 1st is ok by me. plus, let's be real, i think everyone wanted to believe JCN is a great player - and he may be - but 3 years of waiting on him gave him a kind of mythical status around here that is not at all justified yet.

Posted by: steve colter | August 7, 2007 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Hard to believe that trade, especially considering Memphis owed us for giving them Chucky Atkins for nothing.

We should of traded JNC to Utah for Fesenko!!

Posted by: Darnell | August 7, 2007 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Stackhouse complained his way off of three different teams before he's finally settled into the role of a 6th man on maybe the most talented team in the league. The player he is now isn't the player he was here. He could put up numbers but couldn't help a team win a game.
It wasn't just here, he clashed with Iverson in Philly, was a pain in the ass in Detroit, and didn't want to play second fiddle to Micheal Jordan. That's right, he didn't want to play second fiddle to Micheal Jordan.
That was well documented when he was here and his problems on the first two stops of his pro career were widely discussed in the national sports media.
Sure he wasn't happy about losing, but he was in a position to do something about it besides sulk! I agree with Kalorama, if we kept that number 5 pick and Stackhouse and Lattener there is no way that this team would be coming off of three straight playoffs.
Grunfeld changed a lockerroom culture that even Micheal Jordan had failed to erase around here. That's what makes him a top GM, look at how well Milwaukee and the Knicks have both done since he left and you might have a clue to how hard his job really is.

Posted by: GM | August 7, 2007 3:27 PM | Report abuse

I think we should trade Arenas for Dallas's First Round Pick. Sure, Arenas is an all-star, but we'd be getting a First Rounder for what was a Second Round Pick.

I got it, let's offer that pick we got from Memphis to Utah for Boozer! He was a second round pick also. I'm sure they'd take that trade in a second!

Posted by: dawg | August 7, 2007 3:27 PM | Report abuse

A lottery protected pick til 2013 IS nothing at all...im my humble opinion. Jason, Navarro for a 2 is NOT brilliant. He's made enough good moves for me to give him a pass on a couple of questionable moves but the JCN thing kinda bugs me. Personally, I'd rather see him in Spain in '07 than in Memphis. Since we didn't keep him, there was no pressure to deal. By the way, anyone that watches the world championships and olympics has seen the guy. I've watched Spain play just so I could see him for years just because I knew we had his rights. Maybe that's the reason I'm disappointed. We were playing with house money and we folded. Again, I respect all opinions. This is just mine. I think we could have gotten more. (Better yet, we could have kept him next year. Personally, I'd rather take a guy who has proven himself in international competition for years than a young stud with promise. I'd rather have him that Nick Young) I might be eating those words later and I'll admit I was wrong then but experience counts for a lot.Also, please don't mention sarunas jasi-whatever. He was average.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Everyone keeps saying we got a 1st rounder for a 2nd rounder. I mean following that line of thinking, would dealing Blatche for late 1st round pick be a smart move? It depends on the player... Arenas was a 2nd round pick, would you trade him for a 1st round pick? I'm not saying JNC is Arenas, but the only reason he was a 2nd round pick was because of his contract situation and the fact he wouldn't be available immediately. Plus if you look at it, we maybe got a 1st round pick, maybe in 5 years from now, or we may just get "cash considerations". Like I said, I'd rather of just gotten two 2nd rounders straight up instead of going through all this garbage.

Posted by: Darnell | August 7, 2007 3:33 PM | Report abuse

"Also, please don't mention sarunas jasi-whatever. He was average."

In the NBA he was average. In Euro/International ball, he was a top dog. That's how much success in the latter has to do with success in the former.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Go Grizzlies..... :)

Posted by: Dre' | August 7, 2007 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Plus "sarunas jasi-whatever" didn't come over to the NBA until he was 42, so you can't really compare them.

Posted by: Darnell | August 7, 2007 3:37 PM | Report abuse

JCN is nothing but a poor mans Carlos Arroyo..great trade!!

Posted by: cleetis | August 7, 2007 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Steve Colter, you kill me with that name. Heard from Ennis Whatley lately? I agree with Paul in that it is a really bad trade. However, Wes is the champ. Here's a partial list of trade in and trade outs...
out: Rasheed, Webber, Wallace, Rip
in: Ike Austin, Otis Thorpe, Richmond, Roundfield.
It's a no contest. This trade is not even in our top 10 worst ever.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 3:38 PM | Report abuse

it's possible we (fans, not ernie) overestimated our leverage on this deal - yes, lots of teams were really interested in JCN, but they also knew that he's not proven, so they didn't have to offer that much. in hindsight, i don't think many teams would have offered up any kind of even decent, proven player for JCN, and certainly not a potential lottery pick.

Posted by: steve colter | August 7, 2007 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Navarro is 27. Sarunas had just turned 30 when he mad his NBA debut.

yeah, huge age gap there.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 3:49 PM | Report abuse

yeah - b. wallace for ike still kills me.

Posted by: steve colter | August 7, 2007 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Kalorama, Sarunas was NOT 30 when he came to the NBA. Try 36, at least. And I don't mean his "official" listed age either. It's well known he was older than reported when he attended MD.

Posted by: Darnell | August 7, 2007 3:53 PM | Report abuse

JCN had proven himself against the US and they won the championship with him at the helm. I remember Sarunas from Maryland and he was decent but not a star. I'm not sure what his teams did overseas. Was he a proven winner? That's my point about JCN. Not only did they win, but he was one of the major causes of it.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 3:57 PM | Report abuse

We should have told Memphis.."Either give us swift for Etan/JCN or a # 1 with no protection after next year or 'YOU'RE SHORT' and we're keeping him". We should set the market since we have the commodity. We had Memphis by the short hairs and we let them go.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Again, how come no one questions why all we could get for this future superstar (as dawg said, he's Gilbert Arenas) was a protected pick? I mean, when you think about it, not only is Ernie an idiot but every other GM in the NBA is a retard for not offering something slightly better than a top-19 protected pick for this future MVP candidate! You guys are such Redskins fans it makes me laugh.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 4:06 PM | Report abuse

(for the slow bunch)

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 4:07 PM | Report abuse

mark - can't argue with the facts about JCN's success on his national team and euro pro team. i just think that that still doesn't convince nba general managers that he's a lock for a great nba career.

Posted by: steve colter | August 7, 2007 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Did we even approach Portland about Oden for JCN???

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 4:09 PM | Report abuse

"JCN had proven himself against the US and they won the championship with him at the helm. I remember Sarunas from Maryland and he was decent but not a star. I'm not sure what his teams did overseas. Was he a proven winner? That's my point about JCN. Not only did they win, but he was one of the major causes of it."

The whole POINT OF Jasikevicius was that he was THE proven winner! His teams won 3 straight Euroleague titles and he was the MVP! PLUS, he led the Lithuanian national team in a win over Team USA in 2004. Google and Wikipedia are your friends. Don't fear them.

Posted by: Jake H. | August 7, 2007 4:12 PM | Report abuse

If Navarro was the stud that some of you seem to think that he is, don't you think that one of the teams that the Wizards were talking to would have offered more than what we apparently will be getting from Memphis? And I say "apparently" because I'm reading that the exact terms of the deal are still being negotiated. Based on what I've read that other teams have offered (i.e., second round picks and players with bad contracts), the Wizards' evaluation of JCN as being a good backup guard on a playoff-calibre team sounds pretty much on target.

Posted by: rbpalmer | August 7, 2007 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Ease up, Jake. I'm not on here doing research on a guy who is just a point of reference to me. Like I said, I don't know about Sarunas. To me, whether JCN turns out to be good or not is moot since we didn't plan on keeping him. The perception of him being good is what we should have used to get more than a late 1st round pick years from now. That's all I'm saying. If we really needed a pick , good move. Since whatever we get for him is gravy anyway, why not use that leverage and take a gamble ?

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 4:24 PM | Report abuse

JCN was drafted with the 40th pick in the 2002 draft when he was a vertual unknown, not only by NBA fans but also by international scouts. Fast forward 5 years; he is now one of the very best players in Europe (last years MVP), and would, at worst, be a first round pick.
In my mind getting what is being speculated at the moment (a protected 1st round pick, or in a few years cash) is a terrible trade.
I have to agree with multiple posters that it would have been better to let him go back to Europe.

--Tom

Posted by: Tom from Miami | August 7, 2007 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Maybe that late first rounder in 2013 turns out to be the next Gilbert Arenas...maybe JCN turns out to be Skita. I guess we'll find out. Meanwhile, back at the ranch...what's up with Dre Blatche? He's our last order of business.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 4:28 PM | Report abuse

>>>JCN had proven himself against the US and they won the championship with him at the helm. I remember Sarunas from Maryland and he was decent but not a star. I'm not sure what his teams did overseas. Was he a proven winner? >>>

Mattafact: Saras was a winner on a team that gave JCN one of his 'proven' titles. Jasikevicius was the starting PG on La Bombas first Euroleague winning team.

JCN was a headstrong ballhog with no outside game, so 'Sausages and Cabbages' ran the team. Clutch three point shooter in the Eurogame was Saras. JCN was just another streaky combo guard.

Saras then went6 on to lead Maccabi Tel Aviv to titles if I recall correctly. And without him the Spanish team didn't do as well. Bomba or no Bomba.

There's stats for JCN vs the Sixers IIRC (not great) and JCN vs the US (a few years back) not great. He'll be an okay back up. But I don't mind a late-round pick in the hands of a guy known for uncovering late-draft gems.

Posted by: doclinkin | August 7, 2007 4:39 PM | Report abuse

"Kalorama, Sarunas was NOT 30 when he came to the NBA. Try 36, at least. And I don't mean his "official" listed age either. It's well known he was older than reported when he attended MD."

So well known that this is the first time anyone's mentioned it in all the time his name's come up. Uh-huh.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, basically I look at the draft pick as trade fodder down the road. As IC mentioned the trade details are still being hammered out, so I think it's a bit early to get your panties in a bunch.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 4:41 PM | Report abuse

real surprise I gave you ur list everyone/kalamora and you act like its not mine. You always ask for proof/stats to back statements so I gave them to u.

CONCLUSION

I was correct and everyone on the site was wrong except for mark but he flip flopped all over the place. Im going to take my basketball knowledge somewhere else b/c none of you have any idea what ur talking about. Im a homer but Im realistic u guys have blinders on. Pretty funny I havnt posted anything for hours and I got all u douche's so riled up ur still talking about it. Evryone on this site is loser douche blogger have fun jerking off tnt by urselves

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who isn't convinced Ernie Grunfeld is one of the best GMs in the NBA simply needs to keep their mouth shut. The guy is THE reason the Wizards have been in the playoffs 3 straight years.

And arguing over whether the Wiz got the better end of the Stackhouse deal is pointless, since there is NO debating the fact that the Wiz ROBBED the Mavs. Hell, we would've given them the 5th pick just to take Gaytner and the pioneer of the 8 day summer rental off of our hands...forget about Jamison- he was just the icing on the cake!

Posted by: BaRnO | August 7, 2007 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Scoop, you taking your ball and going home ? Dang. Oh well. Later, fellas.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 4:47 PM | Report abuse

anyone can get in the playoffs 3 years in a row. Mchale had the twolves in 7 or 8 years in a row and he is the worst GM ever. Also I posted a list from a writer from SI.com and he had Grunfeld 11th so you can shut ur mouth barno unless you have something good to say. Which I already know u dont

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Can't argue with that, BaRnO.

I'm shutting up...and flip flopping.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 4:49 PM | Report abuse

anyone can get in the playoffs 3 years in a row. Mchale had the twolves in 7 or 8 years in a row and he is the worst GM ever. Also I posted a list from a writer from SI.com and he had Grunfeld 11th so you can shut ur mouth barno unless you have something good to say. Which I already know u dont


Im leaving b/c I proved my point and everyone knows I am correct and I have nothing else to say to a bunch of douche bag homers who dont jack about anything.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 4:50 PM | Report abuse

"I gave you ur list everyone/kalamora and you act like its not mine."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Well maybe I would have been more inclined to believe it was yours if you hadn't actually posted the link to the article that you copied it from.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 4:50 PM | Report abuse

"And arguing over whether the Wiz got the better end of the Stackhouse deal is pointless, since there is NO debating the fact that the Wiz ROBBED the Mavs."


Anyone that has a thought process knows the mavericks got the better of the deal. Any good GM in the league could do a lot more with the #5 pick and stackhouse then jamison.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 4:52 PM | Report abuse

kalamora ur a moron u asked I gave you and backed up with facts. It wasnt the same order dont even think we had the same top 5. Just put it there so all u can see I am correct and ernie isnt top 5, hell he isnt even top 10. Keep sucking him off though and keep thinking the wizards are going to be a top 4 or 5 team in the east. You guys are all going to be awfylly sad when the season starts. Keep laughing u all know was right period especially u kalamora im glad u can laugh off the fact u were wrong

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 4:56 PM | Report abuse

I don't know why I even bother reading these comments anymore. I guess I keep hoping something intelligent comes up but nothing ever does.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 4:57 PM | Report abuse

"I don't know why I even bother reading these comments anymore. I guess I keep hoping something intelligent comes up but nothing ever does."

I 2nd that and all of you have to realize you argued with scoop all day and he was right. Just let it go the kid is a dick but he is right

Posted by: jimmy | August 7, 2007 4:59 PM | Report abuse

"I would rather get nothing than a first round pick" might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. They just turned a guy they couldn't have into a first round draft pick.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 5:03 PM | Report abuse

"It wasnt the same order dont even think we had the same top 5."

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

They're the exact same 5 names! But because they're in a different order they're nothing alike and it's purely a coincidence?

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Stop! You're killin' me!!!

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 5:03 PM | Report abuse

nobody cares who started a discussion/argument here, or who has their facts more in line. just trying to discuss a team that i assume everyone here cares about, then it gets into a shouting match/pissing contest. you should be real proud scoop.

Posted by: steve colter | August 7, 2007 5:05 PM | Report abuse

the fact is ernie is not top 5. Scoop whether his list or not put one up to prove his point. Scoop was right hes not top 5 and according to the list he isn't top 10. You guys can laugh and make fun all you want . But scoop is correct and I agree with him that kalorama is a idiot. Keep laughing scoop is correct!!

Posted by: jimmy | August 7, 2007 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Why must this be an argument over right and wrong? Blogs should be great discussion, not endless name-calling.

The answer to scoop's dilema lies somewhere between his opinion and the other side. Nobody's right or wrong here.

Sheesh. WaPo needs to require registration like BF does.

Posted by: Pradamaster | August 7, 2007 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Thought I was done posting here but i had to give this kid jimmy some love. Thank u for once someone sees the light. U might not like me but I was right and thats all there is to it

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 5:11 PM | Report abuse

"Why must this be an argument over right and wrong? Blogs should be great discussion, not endless name-calling."

this right here is why I make fun of you all. That statement says it all. Can't we all just get along guys why do you have to be so mean.


hahahhaha now u guys are killing me

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 5:13 PM | Report abuse

I agree, Prada. At the very least it would cut down on the instances of people posting under multiple names so they can agree with their own arguments.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 5:13 PM | Report abuse

That is the funny thing.
IF his point was that EG might not be top 5, and that there are other better GMs he may have made a valid argument. But his point was that EG made mistakes and a lot of the examples he chose were highly debatable. His whole premise was riddled with irrelevant opinions and speculation. It was just silly.

Then he got mad and started name calling when people refuted his "points". Which is pretty silly too.

Can you name a better GM that the wiz could have hired when they got EG?

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 5:14 PM | Report abuse

his whole point was that ernie isn't a top 5 gm. He kept saying he was overyhyped and not a top 5 GM. He was right you guys just all disagree b/c u dont like him. I can actually be objective and after reading all the posts its clear scoop was correct and everyone arguing was incorrect.

Posted by: jimmy | August 7, 2007 5:16 PM | Report abuse

actually jimmy this started in the previous post, and while he did say EG wasn't top five he pulled out a bunch of things he said EG got lucky with... That is all anyone was debating. Top 5 was over a long time ago.

Still waiting to find out if there was a better GM interested when the wizards hired Ernie?

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 5:19 PM | Report abuse

finally a voice of reason

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 5:19 PM | Report abuse

scoopjimmy?

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Greg, I read all the posts on the last few posts. Scoop is clearly correct and his point was clearly he isn't a top 5 GM.

Posted by: jimmy | August 7, 2007 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Registration is also key because it allows the webmaster to ban users that are combatative.

At least it does on Bullets Forever.

Posted by: Pradamaster | August 7, 2007 5:22 PM | Report abuse

riiiiight,

and the better GM we could have hired was?

Never could get a decent reply to a question from scoop.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 5:22 PM | Report abuse

real surprise u try to say jimmy is me. I copied the list...Making up fake people now to agree with me as well. I actually cut and paste my entire argument the entire day. None of those were my own thoughts. You guys all got me I give up

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 5:23 PM | Report abuse

I would definitely like registration.
That is why I use my real name, some accountability.

PS> I never had any problem with EG not being top 5, it was all about the big rambling list of wacky reasons.

I don't think I will write that again, as it is hyper redundant now.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Best GM for wizards was?

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 5:26 PM | Report abuse

"and the better GM we could have hired was?"

What does that have to do with my argument I said he wasn't top 5 he isn't. Thats been proven. Good GMs stay with good teams. If he is so great why has he been with so many different teams. Why was he available in the 1st place? Once again greg nonsense that doesnt have to do with the argument at all. Anyways I dont know what GMS were open for hiring when we signed ernie that doesnt matter the point is hes not top 5. He probably was the best GM available at the time that isnt the point.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 5:27 PM | Report abuse

"and the better GM we could have hired was?"

What does that have to do with my argument I said he wasn't top 5 he isn't. Thats been proven. Good GMs stay with good teams. If he is so great why has he been with so many different teams. Why was he available in the 1st place? Once again greg nonsense that doesnt have to do with the argument at all. Anyways I dont know what GMS were open for hiring when we signed ernie that doesnt matter the point is hes not top 5. He probably was the best GM available at the time that isnt the point.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 5:28 PM | Report abuse

greg are you in 5th grade? Can you read? Isn't ur mom caling u for dinner right about now?

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 5:30 PM | Report abuse

real surprise greg everytime u are wrong u dont respond.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 5:31 PM | Report abuse

scoop and me are not the same person. I dont like scoop either guys.

But he is clearly correct and you guys are all clearly bitter. Just let it go he will go away

Posted by: jimmy | August 7, 2007 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Well, it was my point.

Next point is who cares about some BS top 5 ranking anyway? Some dude makes up a list... so what? I don't think EG is overrated, I think he is looked at as a quality GM though out the league, and he has done a really good job for this franchise.

Last point is I think a lot of people here would debate the reasons you listed (3rd post) and that is why people were disagreeing with you. The whole thing is moot.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 5:33 PM | Report abuse

"Next point is who cares about some BS top 5 ranking anyway? Some dude makes up a list... so what?"

Finally you concede thank u boys thats all for me today

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Now you are getting batty, I have written a book today responding to you.

Yeah, actually I'm 4.

Kinda funny to be arguing against a 4 year old... but here you are.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 5:36 PM | Report abuse

"batty"


what does that even mean?

Posted by: tim | August 7, 2007 5:37 PM | Report abuse

"What does that have to do with my argument I said he wasn't top 5 he isn't. Thats been proven."

Uh ... how? Because you posted a list from one writer at SI.com? Because some guy named jimmy agrees with you? And that's somehow "proof" that you're right? On an issue that is purely subjective?

uh-huh.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Good deal... hehe.
If you read back 16 posts ago, you will see that I said his is probably not top 5 there, but that he was the best option available. And a we were lucky to get him.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Batty. It's my way of trying to maintain civility when he starts with the 'insults'

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 5:39 PM | Report abuse

so you make fun of him for calling you names and you are making up words.

that makes a lot of sense

Posted by: tim | August 7, 2007 5:41 PM | Report abuse

the funny thing is he is probably dead on with all the insults.

Posted by: tim | August 7, 2007 5:42 PM | Report abuse

batty is a word.
sorry if you don't have it in your lexicon.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 5:46 PM | Report abuse

I think scoop is hilarious

Posted by: tim | August 7, 2007 5:47 PM | Report abuse

"If he is so great why has he been with so many different teams. Why was he available in the 1st place?"

So, by extension, Bryan Colangelo is a lousy GMs because he changed teams. And McHale must be the greatest GM in the NBA, because he's been with his team longer than any GM in the league?

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 5:48 PM | Report abuse

I dont know what a lexicon is the dictionary says it means of, relating to, or resembling a bat.

Posted by: tim | August 7, 2007 5:50 PM | Report abuse

"So, by extension, Bryan Colangelo is a lousy GMs because he changed teams. And McHale must be the greatest GM in the NBA, because he's been with his team longer than any GM in the league?"

Colangelo left by choice. As for Mchale the twolves owner is retarded

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 5:51 PM | Report abuse

good try though kalarama anything else?

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 5:53 PM | Report abuse

scoop is the only reason I will ever read these comments ever again

Posted by: tim | August 7, 2007 5:57 PM | Report abuse

My, how this has devolved. Scoop is posting under at least 3 different names now (one of which is anonymous) and blasting people left and right, making it nearly impossible to have a rational discussion. A shame that people with (judging by his grammatical skills) a third-grade education want to ruin things like this.

Posted by: Keithinator | August 7, 2007 6:05 PM | Report abuse

"As for Mchale the twolves owner is retarded"

While James Dolan, who runs the Knicks and fired Grunfeld, has proven himself to be an NBA genius?

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 6:05 PM | Report abuse

At least 4 names now for Scoop, as he's added Tim to his Sybill-like personality. What catchy name will he come up with next? I can't wait to find out!

Posted by: Keithinator | August 7, 2007 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Hey Guys,

(Excuse me if this is a little off the subject.)

I just finished a seven-year career of overseas basketball. I also have a communications degree from a quality university. My question now is, how does one become a beat writer for the NBA. I keep hearing that breaking into the sports writing profession is becoming increasingly more difficult, however, I have a passion for both writing and sports, nothing would make me happier than to make a second career out of it. If you have any suggestions for me I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks

If possible, feel free to email your reply to: lormont2112@yahoo.com

Sharp

Posted by: Sharp | August 7, 2007 6:19 PM | Report abuse

You guys are making this post into a real drag with your food fight. Can we move on?

Posted by: Prager | August 7, 2007 6:22 PM | Report abuse

im sure everyone is real worried about grammer when their typing on a sports blog. This is a sports blog right? or is it a grammar blog this why you guys are all sitting home in front of ur computer with ur dick in ur hand by urself at 630. get a life

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 6:28 PM | Report abuse

Sharp,

Here's what you do: get a job at a small newspaper as a sportswriter. You may have to move to a rural area, where there tend to be more entry-level reporting jobs. Work like a dog, then start moving up the journalism ladder to larger papers in bigger cities. Your background may give you a leg up; hard to know, but it's worth mentioning in your resume. That's how most reporters do it. Of course, you have a whole host of online options nowadays too. If you want to stay where you are, try freelancing (for free at first, if necessary) for any sports publication that will publish you, no matter how small. Build up your clip file (i.e., your pile of published stories) and then try the bigger guns.

I'm happy to help further if you have more questions. I've been in the game a long time.

Posted by: Keithinator | August 7, 2007 6:29 PM | Report abuse

keithinator,

Dont know how ur making fun of anyone with that name. Are u 6 you want to go play transformers. Maybe gil will change his name to gilinator

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 6:30 PM | Report abuse

funny u guys think im 3 or 4 different people dont need to hide. I am scoop and only scoop douche bags

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Im glad that I ruin the blog for u guys. I plan on going out of my way to ruin it every day from here on out.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 6:32 PM | Report abuse

goal accomplished you have given me great pleasure

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 6:33 PM | Report abuse

I think its awfully funny how you guys say I get Defensive and start calling names then you guys counter with look at this guys grammar. Everytime you guys try to make fun of me it just proves my point time and time again. You guys are a bunch of douche bag losers. Did I spell that right? Man I wish they had a spell check b/c u guys always hurt my feelings so bad. I want to be grammatically correct like all the cool guys on this blog.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 6:37 PM | Report abuse

especially keithinator and greg biggest to fags on the site

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 6:38 PM | Report abuse

I put to instead of two just for u keithidouche

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 6:39 PM | Report abuse

As a Sixer's fan to the core, I don't know all the particulars of Wizards basketball. But I do know you guys have a solid nucleus with Gilbert, Caron and Jamison. In that mix you have a clutch performer, a tough slasher, and a bonafide pro. Most championship teams are built around 1 superstar, and two other all-star level talents. Washington has that. All three are still in their primes, so Washington should be poised to make some serious runs over the next two or three years.

Oh yeah, I read earlier a guy by the name of scoop said that Deng was better than Jamison. (Hey scoop, don't let one good playoff series fool you). Jamison is a dangerous player from all over the floor, not just mid-range. He is also a guy that can go out and give you 40 & 12 on a good night. Something Deng has yet to prove he can do.

Sharp

Posted by: Sharp | August 7, 2007 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Sharp,

The other route seems to be: start a blog. Keep it interesting and constantly updated. Link to other sites and get yourself linked. Maintain journalistic standards, despite not being a journalist, and basically act as though you were already getting paid.

Then, report: develop sources, scoop the big boys, make them chase you and quote your stories. Make friends. On slow days: scour other blogs and find obscure folks with juicy quotes. (henry, Steinberg, etc).

Newspapers are increasingly losing money on ink and paper subscribers and are desperate to develop digital relevance. Insider comment threads like these are the best of the new media (Props to Ivan...) you get instant interactive information, as well as editorial standards and oversight.

Do a good enough job and eventually you're gonna get quoted, followed, picked up and paid.

Posted by: doclinkin | August 7, 2007 6:59 PM | Report abuse

(I mean do as henry and steinbog do, not quote them quoting someone else).

Posted by: doclinkin | August 7, 2007 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Sharp, if you are a women, just sleep with the boss and I'm sure things will work out just fine. occasional head during lunch might help also, good luck, let me know if you need anymore help.

Posted by: M. Duran | August 7, 2007 7:35 PM | Report abuse

I like Ernie. He's no Vinnie.

Posted by: oddjob | August 7, 2007 8:04 PM | Report abuse

To add to what doc said, I can tell you for a fact that there's a dearth of quality Sixers blogs out there, so if you dedicate yourself, find your voice, and update consistently, you'll catch on within the NBA blogosphere.

From one blogger to (hopefully) another.

Posted by: Pradamaster | August 7, 2007 8:35 PM | Report abuse

I think someone crossed a line up there.
Last I remember we were having a spirited conversation. I have been fine all along with disagreeing it happens sometimes. Seems like there are a few people here who agree with you wholeheartedly. Should be enough encouragement. That said hurling inflammatory insults and derogatory slurs is absolutely unacceptable. There are plenty of boards for that. Someone insulted your intelligence, and you reacted. However, you have spent a great deal of energy today baiting people and it is time that you stopped.

If you haven't noticed, you should know that you have to login to view many parts of the WaPo site. In many areas the comments have been restricted and patrolled for content. This hasn't happened in the blogs yet. And I for one do not like the idea of forcing their hand, making them create a more restrictive system. I like the blogs, and enjoy the dialog. Flaming the boards and 'ruining' them will end them as we know it.

Posted by: greg | August 8, 2007 1:00 AM | Report abuse

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