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Mavericks Need To Get Kidd

Sitting on my couch, watching the Dallas Mavericks' 122-109 loss to the Denver Nuggets on TNT last night, I realized two things.

One, the Mavericks won't win a championship as currently constructed. And two, Dallas really, really needs to get Jason Kidd.

Kidd has not asked for a trade (yet). He's not officially available (yet). But Kidd is not happy in New Jersey. He's been dropping sly hints for the past two weeks, and Kidd would prefer to be elsewhere - whether or not he was "on strike" or really had a debilitating migraine headache when he was a no-show for a loss against the New York Knicks on Wednesday.


Need help? Here, Dirk.(Glenn James/NBA Photos)

That had to be some headache. This is a guy who plays through pain in his knee, his back, wherever. He's a competitor. He loves to be on the floor. But he hates putting up triple-doubles, and giving his heart and soul to a team that seems content with getting eliminated in the first round or second round every year.

When the Nets traded Kenyon Martin to Denver in the summer of 2004 - one year after Kidd spurned the San Antonio Spurs to sign a six-year, $103 million extension to stay - he really began to question the direction of the franchise. He tried to force a trade back then and that didn't work out too well.

The Nets tried to appease Kidd by trading for Carter a few months later, but almost three years with Vince has Kidd incensed and the only resolution that makes sense (okay, I'll quit it with the rhyme) is to move him.

There has been a lot of talk about Kidd teaming up with LeBron James in Cleveland, after the two formed a friendship last summer in Las Vegas with Team USA. Or with Kobe Bryant in Los Angeles, after the Lakers almost acquired Kidd at the trade deadline before deciding against using Andrew Bynum in the deal.

The Cavaliers and Lakers can probably present more attractive packages of talent, draft picks and expiring contracts, but to me, Dallas puts Kidd in contention to win a championship quicker.

And, the Mavericks need Kidd the most.

Losing at home to the Nuggets is by no means grounds to panic, but when it comes in conjunction with a loss to the San Antonio Spurs the night before when Tim Duncan is wearing dress code approved clothing, it is a signal to me that the Mavericks have to shake up the team.

Twenty games into the season, Dallas is 12-8 and doesn't appear to be a team that is merely scaling back the importance of the regular season to be ready for the playoffs. In losing six of their past nine games, the Mavericks look like a team stuck in a malaise following back-to-back meltdowns in the playoffs.

Coming off that NBA Finals collapse in 2006, it seemed logical for the Mavericks to keep most of their core pieces intact. After all, they had a 2 ¾ games to none lead before they found almost every which way to lose - taking out their frustrations on the officials and exercise bikes - as Dwyane Wade completely demoralized them.

But after winning 67 games then losing to the Golden State Warriors in the first round last season, Dallas needed to do more than just bring in Brandon Bass, Eddie Jones and Trenton Hassell.

A mental makeover was in order.

Dirk Nowitzki's vacation to the South Pacific after that last playoff ouster was written about but not played up nearly enough. The league's reigning MVP didn't shave, let his hair grow out hippie-style (i.e. longer than it already is) and spent some nights camping out in his car in the Australian outback and it didn't strike anybody as odd? He really took that loss hard - and doesn't seem to have recovered.


Nein! Yeah, gimme that, Dirk. J-Kidd taught me this one.(AP Photo/Tony Gutierrez)

After the Warriors knocked off the Mavericks, I wrote that they needed to pair a pit bull with Nowitzki in order to be a championship team. I just feel that Nowitzki is a great player, just not good enough to carry a team to a title by himself. That isn't a criticism. Only a handful of players - if that - can take a team all the way to the top.

Nowitzki is a reluctant leader. Wade and even Dallas Coach Avery Johnson have openly questioned his leadership abilities. It's not in Nowitzki's nature to be overly vocal or to inspire his teammates in any way other than that sweet jump shot.

But right now that jumper is not so sweet - which was apparent in the loss against the Spurs when Nowitzki missed a wide-open, point blank three-pointer at the buzzer of the 97-95 loss (Even more telling, the play reportedly was called for Josh Howard. Huh? Dirk doesn't get the last shot drawn up for him?).

Nowitzki had a great game against Denver (32 points, 12 rebounds), but his production had minimal impact on the outcome. He is shooting just 30.6 percent from beyond the three-point line this season and is averaging 21.4 points per game - his worst scoring average since his second season in the league.

I know Dirk put together three of his best seasons after his buddy Steve Nash left Dallas for Phoenix, but Nowitzki initially gained the confidence to carry the Mavericks with Nash pushing him. He still needs somebody in his ear to get him going. Johnson has tried his best to help Dirk become a better player - and it has worked for the most part - but the Mavericks need someone on the floor to motivate him.

Kidd is the ultimate motivator. You can look at his immediate impact on New Jersey, where he took that woebegone franchise to back-to-back NBA Finals appearances; how he completely brought a different attitude to Team USA last summer; and how he makes every player around him better. Kidd should've received a percentage of the contracts Martin, Richard Jefferson, Brian Scalabrine and Mikki Moore have signed in recent years. They got bigger pay days simply by sharing the floor with the man.


Hey Jason, I hear they sell those Tylenol Extra Strength Gelcaps in Dallas. (AP Photo/Rich Schultz)

Dallas needs a player with that "I'm-not-going-to-lose" attitude. Kidd has that attitude, but the past few years in New Jersey, he's felt like the only one. Some might look at the situation in Dallas and ask, "Isn't Dirk just a 7-foot version of Vince Carter, a regular season superstar who hides out in the playoffs?"

Not quite. Unlike Vince, Dirk can say that he has led a team to the conference finals twice and to the NBA Finals. He just can't get over the hump. Kidd can get him over that hump.

Kidd left Dallas on the day after Christmas in 1996, asking to be traded after he failed to mesh with Jamal Mashburn and Jim Jackson (Don't you wish you knew what really went down with them and Toni Braxton?). If he gets a reunion with the Mavericks at age 34, the second ending might be better.

The problem? I cannot think of any way the Mavericks can make it happen. I was developing a headache, spending a good 45 minutes on the ESPN.com trade machine trying to come up with something that worked.

You figure that any deal would start with Devin Harris, who would give the Nets a point guard for the future. The dollars don't add up, though, since Kidd is due over $41 million through next season and the Mavericks don't have the other pieces on their roster to get it done without adding a third or fourth team. I can't imagine New Jersey would want to touch Erick Dampier with James Gandolfini's fingers.

But Mark Cuban is a smart man. It's been a while since he made a real bold move with that team. He has to exhaust every measure to get it done - or this postseason might end in similarly disappointing fashion as the previous two for his franchise.

By Michael Lee  |  December 7, 2007; 7:30 AM ET
 
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Comments

first yet again

Posted by: mark | December 7, 2007 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Now we know who's the idiot who keeps claiming "first."

Back to the subject at hand, Les BouleS need JKidd too!

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 8:46 AM | Report abuse

Cuban for Snyder. Lose, lose.

Posted by: Izman | December 7, 2007 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Why don't you all just trade the whole team and bring in all superstars. Quit dreaming because Jason Kidd is not coming here! How long before the Gil hate start? I am sure it is coming. By the way, Gil will not be traded for Jason Kidd or anyone else. Every one around the league seems to value Gil's presence to the Wiz except the posters here. Too funny!

Posted by: Anonymous | December 7, 2007 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Outstanding article Michael. This is really interesting stuff - all of these recent articles are some of the best info on the NBA available. The Post ought to put it in the print edition. Seriously.

Please keep it up. Love my Wiz but this kind of color on the rest of the NBA is great.

Posted by: charles jones | December 7, 2007 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Anonymous, it's just ONE idiot poster who hates on Gil. And that is because he is insanely JEALOUS of Gil.

Posted by: Anonymous | December 7, 2007 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Michael, excellent analysis! The team with the most motivation is probably the Lakers, so if Kidd does get traded...

Posted by: rgz | December 7, 2007 9:46 AM | Report abuse

The team that really needs Kidd and could actually put together a deal is Chicago. Making Hinrich and Kidd the key components of the deal could work.

Posted by: Sean | December 7, 2007 9:57 AM | Report abuse

There are a number of reasons I think that Kidd will end up in Cleveland or LA. Mostly because those two teams have assets that NJ wants, and NJ holds all the cards. IF a deal gets done, it will have to be a deal that is to the Nets liking. That's why I don't think he will go to Dallas.

On a separate note:
I read an interesting article about NBA Championship teams. The writer (I don't remember who right now) claimed that in order to become a Championship caliber team, you need 3 All Star quality players on the club - and one of those players has to be "elite" quality (MVP or All-NBA 1st team). Also, one HAS to be a top-10 defensive player; preferrably all NBA Defensive 1st team.

He pointed out that almost all NBA Championship teams had those common traits.

So - I've changed my mind about Boston. I originally thought you couldn't win with just 3 superstars (No bench, no other good players), but looking back over history - it's proven that IT CAN and HAS BEEN DONE!

I think Boston (Garnett, Pierce, Allen) and San Antonio (Duncan, Ginobli, Parker) will be in the NBA finals...

Posted by: Rook | December 7, 2007 10:09 AM | Report abuse

jealous or in love ?

Posted by: Anonymous | December 7, 2007 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Isn't vacation sposed to be the time for not shaving and letting your hair grow (at least for those of us who need to shave everyday to look clean shaven)? I see nothing weird about Dirk's vacation. In fact to me it sounds like a great vacation. It gets cold out in the bush and sometimes a car seat is more comfortable then a sleeping bag and tent (which im sure are not made for 7 footers). you are most definitely making an issue out of nothing. what no mention that he probably didnt bathe for a couple of days. the concept of vacation is diff for everybody. if i spent half the year living in hotel rooms and being mobbed by people the last thing i'd want is to spend more time in a hotel in an urban area (remember europe is not something new for dirk).

otherwise, good article. dallas could really use Kidd (and i dont know what talent you're talking about but CLE and LAL got none to trade).

Posted by: pindar | December 7, 2007 11:11 AM | Report abuse

(and i dont know what talent you're talking about but CLE and LAL got none to trade).

Posted by: pindar | December 7, 2007 11:11 AM

LA does have expiring contracts, which are more valuable than players sometimes - especially considering the Free Agent pool available after this year.

Posted by: Rook | December 7, 2007 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Kidd to LA for Kwame Brown and Lamar Odom.

NJ would have $20 Million coming off the books after this year to grab a high profile Free Agent to team with Jefferson & Carter - and the year after, another $15 Million coming off the books to get ANOTHER FA.

LA would be over the Lux Tax, but Kidd and Kobe should be enough to challenge in the West.

NJ could rebuild quickly. LA would be able to contend now. Kidd would be happy. Kobe would be happy.

Book it!

Posted by: Rook | December 7, 2007 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Michael Lee, again an absolutely fanatastic article. Why don't they print them in the Wash Post sports section or perhaps Sports Illustrated?

Either way, we love you and appreciate your writing these thought provoking articles for us. Thanks so much.

Robin

Posted by: Robin | December 7, 2007 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I like Kidd, and think he'd be good there, but Devin Harris for him?

I'm not sure Dallas getting significantly older is the right way to go about it.

Posted by: Chimaera | December 7, 2007 11:54 AM | Report abuse

I never understood all of the clamoring over Kidd going to the Lakers. A Kobe/Kidd combo isn't really a good pairing.

Kobe works best when the ball is in his hands, creating and initiating offense. Which is exactly what Kidd would be brought over to do. The only way they'd really work is if one of them played off the ball, but that's not a strength for either of them. And looking at the teams that can really be considered contenders now (and, really, for the last several years) all of them have had high-quality big man. Trading Bynum for Kidd would leave the Lakers with a small team with no inside offensive presence. And their best inside defensive presence (Kwame) is inconsistent and injury-prone.

I think people are so into the names and star-quality that they're not really looking at the substance of a deal like that.

Kidd would be a great fit on Dallas, but the problem is: How much can Dallas give up that would be attractive to the Nets but still leave them with enough to win it all. It'd be a tough deal to pull off.

Posted by: kalorama | December 7, 2007 11:58 AM | Report abuse

"Why don't you all just trade the whole team and bring in all superstars. Quit dreaming because Jason Kidd is not coming here! How long before the Gil hate start? I am sure it is coming. By the way, Gil will not be traded for Jason Kidd or anyone else. Every one around the league seems to value Gil's presence to the Wiz except the posters here. Too funny!

Posted by: | December 7, 2007 09:05 AM "

Yeah, you're right. I guess we should just get used to all star appearances and one and done playoff appearances every year, especially since we're all used to it by now. Carry on.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Very, very interesting idea. I love it. I too, spent about a half hour on the trade generator, I was able to come up with one scenario that worked fiscally, but probably not basketball-wise. They would certainly need to somehow involve a third team.


My wacky scneario:
URL=http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=429~1723~2801~992~3203~2382~998~841~3236&teams=6~6~6~17~17~17~17~17~17&te=&cash=17:6

Posted by: Jason | December 7, 2007 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, you're right. I guess we should just get used to all star appearances and one and done playoff appearances every year, especially since we're all used to it by now. Carry on.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 11:58 AM

Or we can be patient - and let EG's drafting (Young, Pecherov, McGuire, Blatche), Free Agent acquisitions (Arenas) and selective trades (Butler, Jamison) build the club the right way - building a team to contend for multiple years.

Posted by: Anonymous | December 7, 2007 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Interesting idea, Jason. But the Mavs can't afford to give up both Harris and Terry. They'll need to have someone to back Kidd up.

Posted by: kalorama | December 7, 2007 12:25 PM | Report abuse

"Or we can be patient - and let EG's drafting (Young, Pecherov, McGuire, Blatche), Free Agent acquisitions (Arenas) and selective trades (Butler, Jamison) build the club the right way - building a team to contend for multiple years.

Posted by: | December 7, 2007 12:16 PM "

I wouldn't be that optimistic. Time will come soon where CBut, NY, DMac, and AB will need to get paid also, as they reach their prime, and championship teams don't have a roster full of highly paid superstars.

BTW, patience has not been a knid friend to Les BouleS, or DC for that matter. When was the last time Les BouleS, Les Skins, or Les Caps have won anything? Not this decade for the Skins, nor several decades for the other two teams.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 12:29 PM | Report abuse

"Interesting idea, Jason. But the Mavs can't afford to give up both Harris and Terry. They'll need to have someone to back Kidd up.

Posted by: kalorama | December 7, 2007 12:25 PM "

Why? Les BouleS don't have anyone backing up AD now. Oh, ooops, I forgot. Les BouleS is a half @ssed organization, but at least they feed their players cake.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 12:31 PM | Report abuse

We could 'rent' a Championship for one year, like Miami did...

Posted by: Rook | December 7, 2007 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Time will come soon where CBut, NY, DMac, and AB will need to get paid also,

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 12:29 PM

What do you mean by "soon"?

Butler = locked up for the next 4 years
(Very reasonable $8.5M contract)
Young = locked up for the next 2 years
(Rookie scale contract)
Blatche = locked up for the next 5 years
(Ernie should be locked up for theft on that one).

McGuire was a second round pick. Signed a 1-year deal. Will not see much playing time, so therefore will garner very little interest in a LOADED Free Agent market. EG will tie him up to a long term deal on the cheap as well.

Posted by: Rook | December 7, 2007 12:38 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Les BouleS will be championship caliber until almost the time those dudes (CB and AB) are up for a new contract. By then, it'll be time to blow up the team once again because you can't afford all of them.

Most teams that win championships have almost instant success/chemistry when they added a player or two, not 3 seasons of one and done mediocrity, infighting, and coaching turmoil.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 12:56 PM | Report abuse

And of course DCIdiot knows EVERYTHING....ask yourselves....his favorite phrase...what doesn't the idiot know????

Posted by: Anonymous | December 7, 2007 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Nice post Micheal, looks like there maybe some things brewing on different fronts that will get the trade winds blowing. But will they blow through Washington?

I don't think so, with out the team's best player the Wizards are still in contention. They're holding out the hope that Arenas will be ready to go for the playoffs, so I don't see any reason that Grunfeld would blow up the big three when it appears that he's just starting to get them some help.
We have a young(hey I like that Young Hollywood nickname that sombody used for Young on here)core that has already shown flashes of what they can be.

Young and Blatche are already pushing for minutes and both really have game. When the Wiz get Pecherov back and in the mix I think many will be surprised by his talent. And MacGuire has only gotten to show it in little spurts but he will end up being an NBA starter down the line.

Based on his track record I'll trust that Ernie Grunfeld is building a team here that will go deep into the playoffs for a number of years.

I'll gladly stick with the status quo of being patient and rooting for these guys while Grunfeld builds his title contender.

Looks like there's only one poster here that's calling for the Arenas/Jamison for Kidd/Maglorie/Boone deal. And I haven't seen anyone else that thinks that it's a good idea.

Since that's the same poster that spends countless hours on their Gilby love/hate obsession, I think we can declare that idea dead on arrivial.

Posted by: GM | December 7, 2007 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Infighting???? What Infighting???? Just because you can spell it doesn't make it real. And please don't repost a bunch of Haywood/ Etan crap...

Follow the rest of the league, this team gets along better then about any in the league. Are you planning to start another "the rest of the team hates Gilbert rant"?

Doesn't it concern you that you see alot of things that just aeren't there? Infighting??? Wow...

Posted by: GM | December 7, 2007 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Anybody here who thinks that Gil - JKidd trade will work in Wiz favor is an IDIOT!

BTW, I have Nash, Gil, Deron Williams and maybe CP ahead of Kidd in my PG list.

Posted by: Anonymous | December 7, 2007 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Yes, that includes you two, Lisa and Mark, who love to post anonymously.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 1:22 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Les BouleS will be championship caliber until almost the time those dudes (CB and AB) are up for a new contract.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 12:56 PM


Ok - I'm willing to wait...... or rather....wait to see what Grunfeld does this off-season to improve the team.

By the way, both Pecherov and Young signed Rookie Scale contracts for 2-years.... but the Wizards hold options for years 3 and 4. So, they are both tied up for 4 years as well.

If EG decices to keep both Arenas and Jamison, there should be about $6 M under the cap to make a deal for a mid-salary Free Agent. If the Wizards and Thomas decide he can no longer play NBA basketball and he retires, they could apply for the Salary Cap releif for his $6.8M salary. With almost $13 Million, they could go after a Medium High-level FA.

If EG decides NOT to resign Arenas and Jamison, the Wizards will have between $20 - $27 Million UNDER the salary cap to sign other Free Agents (again, depending on the Thomas situation).

Given Ernie's past moves - I'm willing to at least wait to see what he does this off-season before I'll start calling for him to trade half the team's scoring punch for Jason Kidd, or trading 2/3 of the team for Kobe, or signing Sun Ping Pow for $4Million dollars.


Posted by: Rook | December 7, 2007 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Rook, that's a well thought out response. Much more indicative of someone with reasoning ability who's willing to discuss and debate issues without calling people idiots when they disagree with you, and then cry when they get a dosage in return.

I don't know who the top free agents are this summer, but I do know that Emeka Okafor is coming out. I don't know if he can play the 4, but Les BouleS shouldn't go for him unless he can be paired with BTH.

I hope whatever EG decides to do, it will have no bearing on Gilby's not so subtle threats on who he wants on the team, or otherwise he walks. The last thing you want is for EG to cater to a superstar wannabe that wants max money but hasn't been able to lead the team past the first round of the playoffs and who runs his mouth more than GM runs his Depends.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Hey Rook, I think DMac is signed for 3 years.

Posted by: 2cents4wiz | December 7, 2007 1:49 PM | Report abuse

I believe Michael's comment:

"After the Warriors knocked off the Mavericks, I wrote that they needed to pair a pit bull with Nowitzki in order to be a championship team. I just feel that Nowitzki is a great player, just not good enough to carry a team to a title by himself."

applies to Gilbert and the wiz. Only I think that this year, Caron is becoming that pit bull.

I can't wait the Agent Zero to return, but the positive that can be taken from this situation is the monster that Caron is becoming. This is his team now. Even the young bucks, e.g., NYoung, are looking to him for guidance now. This is great. And I think it will only get better when Gil returns. Gil has always said he wasn't a leader. Well Caron is.

It was also a great move to make him Co-Captain.

Posted by: 2cents4wiz | December 7, 2007 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Hey Rook, I think DMac is signed for 3 years.

Posted by: 2cents4wiz | December 7, 2007 01:49 PM

I think he's signed for a 1-year contract with a team option for years 2 and 3..... but I couldn't find that anywhere on the Web....Thanks for the clarification.

Posted by: Rook | December 7, 2007 2:05 PM | Report abuse

DC Man 88, can we please stop using disgusting and vulgar language on this chat? Your comment earlier today was totally unacceptable. I won't even repeat it. Keep in clean or don't come here at all. Seriously. Step up your vocab, playa. You can disagree without trying to make people vomit in the process.

Posted by: Repulsed reader | December 7, 2007 2:39 PM | Report abuse

...And thats why no one takes 88 seriously. What a joke.

Posted by: Anonymous | December 7, 2007 2:39 PM | Report abuse

"DC Man 88, can we please stop using disgusting and vulgar language on this chat? Your comment earlier today was totally unacceptable. I won't even repeat it. Keep in clean or don't come here at all. Seriously. Step up your vocab, playa. You can disagree without trying to make people vomit in the process.

Posted by: Repulsed reader | December 7, 2007 02:39 PM

...And thats why no one takes 88 seriously. What a joke.

Posted by: | December 7, 2007 02:39 PM "

You guys are idiots. Chow down.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Ivan and Michael, it would be interesting if you could talk with Gibert and see if he is going to do anything different with his rehab this time(lessons learned)as opposed to the last one. Personally, I hope he stays out the rest of the year and get's it healed up properly. I would rather that he take his time and do it right, that is what's better for the long term.

Posted by: Section 101 | December 7, 2007 3:00 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards were one-and-done last year because 1) their two best players were out with injuries 2) they had to play the team that won the East. Only a pathological hater would blame that on Gilbert--it wasn't as if he asked Gerald Wallace to bang into his knee. If the situation had been reversed and LaBronski and Hughes were the ones hurt, it just as easily could have been the Wiz getting the sweep, and then besting the Nets and Pistons as well. A healthy Wizards team did beat the Pistons in Auburn Hills during the regular season.

If Gilbert comes back healthy and re-signs, I could see the Wiz competing for the East title next season and being a contender in say, 2009-2010. I think Butler, Blatche and Young are going to pick up more and more of the scoring load, so that Jamison can reduce his minutes and GA can pick his spots more--if he doesn't have to carry the offense, he's going to have more gas in the tank for the 4th quarter, when you really need a superstar to take over. Gil's perfectly capable of dishing a lot of dimes--look what he did the last time out--when he has other scorers out on the floor.

A lot of it really depends upon Blatche. He's got the potential fill up the score sheet and make game-changing plays at both ends. He just needs more game experience and better cardio conditioning. (Somebody needs to hook him up with Bernard King for some pointers on that--he used to run three miles on a treadmill at a sub-six clip every day.) And of course, he needs to stay away from detectives posing as cheap hookers. But I trust he's figured that out by now.

Posted by: John Brisker | December 7, 2007 3:13 PM | Report abuse

There is are others reasons to oppose Jason Kidd besides his age and his knee questions.
He is a coach-killing egomaniac with low character. At the first sign of things not going his way, he wants to jump ship. And look at how he does. Sitting out a game and hurting the team to try and make a point. It is instructive that the only time the Nets got anywhere was when the East was at its absoulte worst. It is my belief that a jealous and venal Kidd was the man that broke up the Triple J's.
Maybe with a strong owner like Cuban and a coach like Avery, they can control Kidd. But if he ends up on the Mavs, Avery Johnson should watch his back. Kidd has proven he can charm folks in the front office and undermine a coach that doesn't doesn't do things the way he wants them.
Good luck to the Mavs if they get him, I wouldn't want someone like that on the Wizards.

Posted by: George Templeton | December 7, 2007 3:15 PM | Report abuse

"There is are others reasons to oppose Jason Kidd besides his age and his knee questions.
He is a coach-killing egomaniac with low character. At the first sign of things not going his way, he wants to jump ship. And look at how he does. Sitting out a game and hurting the team to try and make a point. It is instructive that the only time the Nets got anywhere was when the East was at its absoulte worst. It is my belief that a jealous and venal Kidd was the man that broke up the Triple J's.
Maybe with a strong owner like Cuban and a coach like Avery, they can control Kidd. But if he ends up on the Mavs, Avery Johnson should watch his back. Kidd has proven he can charm folks in the front office and undermine a coach that doesn't doesn't do things the way he wants them.
Good luck to the Mavs if they get him, I wouldn't want someone like that on the Wizards.

Posted by: George Templeton | December 7, 2007 03:15 PM "

JKidd works well with EJ, and EJ works well with JKidd. It was proven in NJ.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 3:21 PM | Report abuse

"The Wizards were one-and-done last year because 1) their two best players were out with injuries 2) they had to play the team that won the East. Only a pathological hater would blame that on Gilbert--it wasn't as if he asked Gerald Wallace to bang into his knee. If the situation had been reversed and LaBronski and Hughes were the ones hurt, it just as easily could have been the Wiz getting the sweep, and then besting the Nets and Pistons as well."

Geez, by some mathematical magic, I guess losing Gilby and CBut for the final few games caused Les BouleS to drop from the first seed at all star break to near the bottom seed come playoff time.

I guess we should call this a season too since Gilby is out for 3 months and the team is shorthanded with Etan and Opech out.

"A healthy Wizards team did beat the Pistons in Auburn Hills during the regular season.

Posted by: John Brisker | December 7, 2007 03:13 PM ""

Ok, I guess the Pistons win in Detroit really salvaged last season. Break out the streamers, the balloons, and of course, the Costco sheet cake. Whoop dee d@mn doo!

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 3:26 PM | Report abuse

J Thompson talking about the wiz - suns game, the "wiz had better practice how to run backwards fast cause the suns bring it"
I enjoy watching the suns play and thought they got a raw deal against the Spurs last year. The Wiz with a healthy Gil would try to run with and out gun the suns, without Gil they may actually resort to clamping down on defense; stranger things have happened and it is probably their only chance against this team.

Posted by: myshkin | December 7, 2007 3:28 PM | Report abuse

"Ivan and Michael, it would be interesting if you could talk with Gibert and see if he is going to do anything different with his rehab this time(lessons learned)as opposed to the last one. Personally, I hope he stays out the rest of the year and get's it healed up properly. I would rather that he take his time and do it right, that is what's better for the long term.

Posted by: Section 101 | December 7, 2007 03:00 PM "

I suggested this before, but I think Gilby should combine his summer workout routine and bike around town with his parachute on his back, like a hot rod funny car.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Ok, I guess the Pistons win in Detroit really salvaged last season. Break out the streamers, the balloons, and of course, the Costco sheet cake. Whoop dee d@mn doo!

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 03:26 PM

Gee whiz, Dc Man88, if you can CONSTANTLY bring up that "famous West Coast swoon", I don't see anything wrong with others pointing out important wins against Top Tier teams to make a point.

Posted by: Anonymous | December 7, 2007 3:30 PM | Report abuse

"Gee whiz, Dc Man88, if you can CONSTANTLY bring up that "famous West Coast swoon", I don't see anything wrong with others pointing out important wins against Top Tier teams to make a point.

Posted by: | December 7, 2007 03:30 PM "

Beating the Pistons was great, but Les BouleS have their number and always play them well.

With regard to the West Coast debacle, which I haven't mentioned in a long time, many players on this team declared the trip as critical and saw them going 4-1 during this trip. Then, it got flipped and they came back 1-4 against lottery bound teams w/o their superstars. Maybe they had too much costco sheet cake after all.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Below is the best I can figure out using RealGM trade Check rather than ESPN's

NJ Gets:
Deavon George
Jason Terry
Josh Howard
Erik Dampier
Mike Bibby

Dallas Gets:
Bostjan Nachbar
Jamaal Magloire
Jason Kidd

Sactown gets:
Richard Jefferson
Marcus Williams

Posted by: Jim | December 7, 2007 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Like the three Magi in Boston, J Kidd wants to take a last shot or two at the big prize. Dallas is the best place for him to take that shot. Nowitzki and Howard are better wings than Carter and Jefferson, good as they may be (and whose character flaws would your rather deal with, Nowitzki's or Carter's). The bench and the centers are way better in Dallas than in NJ. Harris, Terry and a couple of first rounders should do it.

Harris is on his way to becoming a good point guard, but Dallas is the wrong situation for him to mature in.

Posted by: khrabb | December 7, 2007 4:30 PM | Report abuse

A fair point DCMan, but the dynamics were different then. EJ was just an assistant and might have been designated as the good cop to Byron Scott's bad cop. If EJ isn't buddy-buddy with Kidd this time, who knows how Kidd will react. I know the long-term implications don't sway you, but can we be sure that the short-term effects will be positive? I

Posted by: George Templeton | December 7, 2007 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Jim,

I don't see anyway possible that Dallas would include Howard in a trade to get Kidd. Howard is really their best all around player right now. The point of getting Kidd is to win a title, but losing Howard would kill any chance they had of that. Plus, giving up both of Harris and Terry and George would gut their bench. Kidd's good, but he's not that good. That's too much for them to surrender if they still want to be able win a title in the next couple years.

Posted by: kalorama | December 7, 2007 5:47 PM | Report abuse

I'd agree that the Wizards are seeing Butler bloom into the guy that is the big dog that speaks up in the huddle and the lockerroom and refuses to let this team slide out of the playoff chase.

Besides that his game is maturing to the point where he's a really great all around player. His expanded range and the new found ability to catch and shot or use the jab step has really rounded out his offensive game.

Another thing that might be easy to overlook is having Blatche and Songaila around is saving Butler from having to matchup against power forwards so often. He's not expending nearly so much energy battling the bigger guys on the boards.

When Pecherov gets back and Eddie starts working him into the rotation I think we'll get a look at the pair of 7' bookends that Ernie has been envisioning the last few years. And Jamison will be this team's Robert Horry in the coming years, our savvy veteran leader who can knockdown the big shot when the game's on the line.

And one of the big positives that I saw when this team started to win before Gil went down, Arenas played some of the most mature and complete games that I've seen him play.

I'd agree with George, as good as a player that Kidd is he's worn out his welcome on three teams. If he's such a positve guy and such a winner, just checking, how many rings does he have?

Kidd's a good player, but he's wearing down and he's trying manuver his way to that one title shot. If we'd give up Jamison and Arenas for Kidd he wouldn't be surrounded by the kind of team that could do it here in the short window he has left.

Along Rook's line of thinking, Jamison and Daniels for Kidd, now that would be worth thinking about. In the end I still would have a hard time making that deal because I think Grunfeld is thinking that Jamison will be a part in what he's building longterm.

But Kidd, Arenas, Butler, Blatche and Haywood with a bench of Stevenson, MacGuire, Songaila, Pecherov and Young would be 10 guys deep with firepower, defense, and rebounding.

And it's been mentioned here a couple of dozen times how much Kidd likes Eddie. Just wondering 88'er why didn't you think of this trade if you're only idea is to improve the Wizards?

Posted by: GM | December 7, 2007 6:02 PM | Report abuse

GM - the problem with your scenario is the same that Kalorama pointed out about a Kidd/Kobe combo - both Kidd and Gil need the ball in their hands. Anyway, as you pointed out, Gil had some of his best games as a combo guard just before getting injured. Do the Wiz really improve with Kidd if Gil keeps playing at that level? More to the point, I don't see Gil accepting a change in his role.

Posted by: reispace | December 7, 2007 6:29 PM | Report abuse

"And it's been mentioned here a couple of dozen times how much Kidd likes Eddie. Just wondering 88'er why didn't you think of this trade if you're only idea is to improve the Wizards?

Posted by: GM | December 7, 2007 06:02 PM "

I'd glady keep Gilby here if I thought he could coexist with JKidd, but as mentioned before, Gilby needs the ball in his hands, and I doubt if Gilby would feel good if he knew there's a bigger star on the team than him.

Also, if JKidd was traded here, and Gilby moved to the 2, that would be a disaster defensively. Gilby has a hard enough time defending 1 guards, and now he'd have to defend bigger, stronger 2 guards who would jump over him.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 7, 2007 6:36 PM | Report abuse

I don't see Gil accepting a change in his role.

Posted by: reispace | December 7, 2007 06:29 PM

Actually reispace, if Gil did change his role and became more of a "scoring guard", rather than a "shoot first point", he could reduce the wear and tear from bringing up the ball and would match up better defensively against other shooting guards.

If he's smart, and if Eddie Jordan learned anything from his previous mistakes, Gil will come back slowly from his latest surgery and will play a more traditional shooting guard role with limited minutes, until he's comfortable that his knee can handle the point duties.
That means becoming more of a shooter, and less of a drive to the hole finisher.

Posted by: Rook | December 7, 2007 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Is Slurp the only one using the handle CBut for Caron Butler around here? At first, I just thought it was lame. Then I read it phonetically, realized who was writing, and damn! I got it. Depends88 strikes again.

Posted by: Anonymous | December 7, 2007 11:15 PM | Report abuse

"Is Slurp the only one using the handle CBut for Caron Butler around here? At first, I just thought it was lame. Then I read it phonetically, realized who was writing, and damn! I got it. Depends88 strikes again.

Posted by: | December 7, 2007 11:15 PM "

I use it for Mark's mom too, when I call for her.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 8, 2007 12:47 AM | Report abuse

Reispace, Actually as I said I'm really not advocating that trade. But Kidd and Arenas would cause as many matchup problems for other teams as they could cause for us defensively. Not many teams could gaurd that combo of quickness in the backcourt.

And we could still always slide Young, Stevenson, or Butler in at the 2 if the other team goes big. But Kidd is a very physical defender that could probably take on many bigger more pyhsical 2's anyway so Gil would be back to gaurding the point.

If you remember Hughes and Arenas often switched on defense and caused problems for other teams with those defensive switches, Gil and Kidd could play a similar style.

Since Gil slides to the two when ever he and Daniels are in the lineup at the same time I really don't see any point what so ever in the line of thinking that Gil couldn't co-exist with Kidd.

Wouldn't Kidd just get the ball to Gil for easy shots? And since Arenas is a scorer doesn't make sense that they ought to get along just fine since Gil wouldn't be taking shots away from Kidd.

The whole point is that if you're going to talk about improving the Wizards you don't give away two of their best three players to get an aging point guard.

I like Young and see some of the same abilities that made the pairing of Hughes with Arenas so much fun to watch. I my mind why not keep Jamison because by Young's third year the Arenas/Young backcourt could be deadly and Kidd could be retired.

Posted by: GM | December 8, 2007 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Do you really think NJ is going to give up JKidd for AJ? C'mon, get real.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 8, 2007 3:50 PM | Report abuse

About as soon as the Wizards would be stupid enough to give up Arenas and Jamison for Kidd.

Posted by: GM | December 9, 2007 8:07 AM | Report abuse

I never brought up the whole idea of Kidd to the Wizards. And frankly I don't see it being a real possibility for either team.

Posted by: GM | December 9, 2007 8:09 AM | Report abuse

"About as soon as the Wizards would be stupid enough to give up Arenas and Jamison for Kidd.

Posted by: GM | December 9, 2007 08:07 AM "

Yeah, Les BouleS would be getting the steal of the century.

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 9, 2007 9:50 AM | Report abuse

"I never brought up the whole idea of Kidd to the Wizards. And frankly I don't see it being a real possibility for either team.

Posted by: GM | December 9, 2007 08:09 AM "

So why bother writing about how great it would be to pair JKidd and Gilby in the backcourt, and then having them run with all these players that you mentioned, minus AJ????

"But Kidd, Arenas, Butler, Blatche and Haywood with a bench of Stevenson, MacGuire, Songaila, Pecherov and Young would be 10 guys deep with firepower, defense, and rebounding.

And it's been mentioned here a couple of dozen times how much Kidd likes Eddie. Just wondering 88'er why didn't you think of this trade if you're only idea is to improve the Wizards?

Posted by: GM | December 7, 2007 06:02 PM "

Posted by: DC Man88 | December 9, 2007 1:47 PM | Report abuse

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