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Ouch

That was an ugly one last night in Toronto. More ugly than the beating at Cleveland last week because that game was at least somewhat close at halftime. The Wiz were done early in the second quarter last night. They played hard - I can attest to that having sat right next to the Wiz bench courtside -but the Raptors moved the ball well and made shots. My question for you readers is this: how many games would this team win if Caron Butler and Gilbert Arenas missed an enire season? 20? 25?

-One thing I didn't mention last night was that Antonio Daniels appeared to tweak an ankle in the third quarter. He didn't return and was limping somewhat after the game. I'll find out more on Antonio and Caron Butler as soon as practice breaks up here at the VC in a few minutes.

-Word will come down at some point about the all-star selections. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported this morning that Hawks G Joe Johnson said that he is in. Johnson is a guard so that is one of seven spots. Assuming that Butler and Paul Pierce are in as the two reserve forwards, that leaves one guard spot, one center and two wild cards.
The key will be whether Chris Bosh is put in as a center thus freeing one of those other forward spots. If Bosh is the backup center, that leaves one guard spot and two wild cards for this group: Antawn Jamison, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton and Hedo Turkoglu. I see Jamison making it.

By Ivan Carter  |  January 31, 2008; 11:21 AM ET
 
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Comments

""The main reason why Les BouleS lost tonight is that the players resorted to Carony helter skelter ball. Just get the ball and chuck it. I'm sure Carony was laughing back home and hoping everyone here would beg for his quick return.

We're better off without Caron and his constant self-promotion.

Posted by: | January 30, 2008 09:59 PM "


LOL! Tell me when Caron throws a coming out party bash. That would be an official start of his self promotion. Otherwise, your attempt at an analogy doesn't hold water.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 30, 2008 10:13 PM "

Oh yeah, and let me know when you see Caron running around with a parachute too.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

There should be a riot at Stern's office if Caron and AJ don't make it.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

10th point. DC Man 88 rocks like a thousand times harder than Steely Dan, he is basically 1001+1 Steely Dans kicking a$s with chuck norris in a battle field earth-style extravaganza bloodbath right here on these boards. Just like in "SideKicks" only in tighter pants and with more than a quick cameo of face time for chuck norris. Imagine more of a lock-down on Norris's face where you see steely dan playing reflected in one eye, while in the other eye you see the reflection of all the a$s kicking and a bit of occasional fatherly encouragement by Beau Bridges. (The ugly Bridges)"

LOVE IT!!!!!

Posted by: G-Train | January 31, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Without Arenas and Butler, the Wizards would be the Wizards of old... One older star, a collection of young kids who would get traded away for the latest aging star (who would then blossom elsewhere) and some filler.

Thank goodness Grunfeld has changed this team around!

Posted by: Noah | January 31, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

"In the last 10 years, no player who averaged at least 20 points and 10 rebounds on a team with a winning record at the midway point of the season failed to make an all-star squad." -Ivan Carter, Thursday

"In the last 10 years, only two players who averaged at least 20 points and 10 rebounds while playing for a winning team at the break did not play in an all-star team." -Ivan Carter, Tuesday

Huh?

Posted by: Barno | January 31, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

"My question for you readers is this: how many games would this team win if Caron Butler and Gilbert Arenas missed an enire season? 20? 25?"

That's accurate Ivan, but you could probably say the same thing for many teams if you take TWO all stars out of the line-up.

Let's take Duncan and Parker off of SA, or maybe Nash and Amare off the Suns. 20-25 games maybe?

I for one think the Cleveland game was a worse loss because the Wiz were pretty healthy for that and could not match Lebron's will to win that game. Even big Z showed up with his "A" game.

Again, no Caron and now I hear AD has a sprained ankle, Jamison's old knees, and playing a very capable playoff team on the second night of a back to backer on thier home floor?

That's not fair, even I could see that one coming. The Cleveland game was far worse, there was no excuse for that one.

The next few games will be very telling however. After Boston they have not been playing as hard and there's still half a season to play.

This same thing happend last year. The Wiz made a name for themselves and then teams started playing them harder. The injuries started coming and they wilted at the end. It's almost like "dejavu."

They definately have to step it up and show people they are ready to take that next step.

No excuses.

"I see Jamison making it."

Nope, Turkoglu has been playing lights out lately and Billups is a regular. I don't see Jamison making it this year. :(

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | January 31, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Last night was an abomination,the bench did not provide the spark EJ was looking for I get tired of hearing this back to back stuff, that is pure bs if you are a reserve you should be ready to give the coaching staff a reason to give you minutes, instead you like you're in a coma sleepwalking through every possesion,be ready to play every night period! Also Pecherov stop shooting 3's learn how to play around the basket.

Posted by: DARGREGMAG@AOL.COM | January 31, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

EJ keeps mentioning that CBut deserves to be an all star because he was an all star last season and is even better this season. Of course, let's not forget that it was EJ who chose Caron to be on last season's all star game.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse


Well, if there is one from that four who you could easily eliminate, it would be Rip Hamilton.

Not a knock against him, but his season just doesn't seem to stand out like Jamison, Billups and Turkey-Glue.

"How many games would this team win if Caron Butler and Gilbert Arenas missed an entire season? 20? 25?"

Is it just me, or does this question seem like bad karma?

I agree with Ray, the answer might be pretty much the same for any team.

Posted by: TruthAboutIt.net | January 31, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Turkoglu making the All-Star game over Jamison would be ridiculous.

Posted by: kalorama | January 31, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Turkoglu doesn't deserve to make it over AJ. AJ is having more complete of a season with his 20 points a game and his 10 rebounds a game. I'd rather have 15 points and 20 rebounds from AJ than 30 points with a couple of rebounds from Hedo. AJ should beat out Hedo, no doubt.

Posted by: Colin | January 31, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Yes I agree with everybody that Arenas and Butler are the superstars of the team but you still have to give props to Stevenson, Blatche and Haywood for stepping up their play this year (excluding the blowout of last night).

I mean if Haywood was playing like he did a season ago.... Who knows?

Posted by: tony | January 31, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

To be fair, since I'm a fair guy, I want to pose this question, somewhat similar to the one that I posed about Gilby last season:

Should Caron sit out the all star game and rest up for the 2nd half of this season if he's not healthy and back for a few games before the all star break?

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

"They definately have to step it up and show people they are ready to take that next step.

No excuses."

Having all-star players sitting on the sidelines in suits is a pretty good excuse.

And the simple truth may be that they're not ready to take that next step. We won't know until they get everybody back healthy, which seems like it's a ways off.

Posted by: kalorama | January 31, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

I think the word is competing. The Wiz have not competed in 2 out of the last 5 games. I wouldnt be bragging about about the MEM win either.

The bench hasnt shown with any consistency that they can compete against starters or bench players.

Getting everybody back healthy solves a lot of problems but its been a struggle to pull out positives out of their play lately.

As for CB playing in the ordeal that is the NBA All-Star game. If CB is playing prior to the All-Star game then it should be up to him. If he is still out for us, then of course he shouldnt.

The game itself isnt taxing, and he could always go to Rivers and say just play me a few minutes. As hard as he has working in the off-season and as much as he has meant to the Wiz, he should represent WAS if he is able to.

Posted by: JSchon | January 31, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

There are 82 games in a season and there are always going to be a few duds during the year, like last night. This is not NJ, MN, Philly, Miami, etc. The season is a marathon, not a sprint! We will be fine. Good luck to CB and AJ, they both deserve to be in New Orleans.

Posted by: Section101 | January 31, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Ray, I can't say that the Wizards aren't playing hard since Boston, they don't seem to be playing nearly as well. But I don't see a lack of effort or intensity.

What I do see is Daniels isn't completely healthy and teams are starting to prep better for him and attack his weaknesses. The other night against Toronto, their points were really attacking Daniels, Mason came in and played a decent game and was on the floor when they closed up the lead and went ahead.

As much jammering as there is on this site about Gil's D, Daniels is really really struggling against quick points. I'd agree with Kalorama in that the bench is too young and inexperienced to know what to expect night to night.

Last night when Eddie went to the bench in the second quarter, Toronto laid a 16-0 run on them and the game was effectively over. With a group of young guys that will happen some nights. My take is Ernie is willing to take this year to see what these guys really have and let them take their lumps from time to time.

Question is, is there anyone available that could solidify the Wizards bench at a price that Ernie is willing to pay? Right now small quick points are having their way with the Wiz. I can't think of anyone available on a 10 day that would be any kind of solution.

That same type of player has bedeviled the Wizards for several years, Daniels lacks the quicks to play those guys. And it is a legitimate question to ask if Gil can be a part of the team's defensive scheme to shut them down.

Posted by: GM | January 31, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Should Caron sit out the all star game and rest up for the 2nd half of this season if he's not healthy and back for a few games before the all star break?

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 12:26 PM

Of course. If he's really not healthy, this is an easy decision.

Posted by: Barno | January 31, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Ten-day contracts are band-aids. They're not going to get anyone off the street willing to work for minimum wage who's going to do anything other than fill space. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Young or Pecherov shipped off in a deadline deal for a vet scorer.

Posted by: kalorama | January 31, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

EJ keeps mentioning that CBut deserves to be an all star because he was an all star last season and is even better this season. Of course, let's not forget that it was EJ who chose Caron to be on last season's all star game.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 12:12 PM

How so, you can't vote for your own players and the AS coach doesn't pick the players.

Posted by: Donk | January 31, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Of course, let's not forget that it was EJ who chose Caron to be on last season's all star game.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 12:12 PM

The reserves are chosen by the Coaches in each conference. The coaches must vote for players NOT ON THEIR TEAM.

So how did EJ "choose" Caron to be an All-Star last season?

Posted by: Rook | January 31, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Whoops, GM.... I was thinking while reading. I won't do it again.

Posted by: Rook | January 31, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Ten-day contracts are band-aids. They're not going to get anyone off the street willing to work for minimum wage who's going to do anything other than fill space. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Young or Pecherov shipped off in a deadline deal for a vet scorer.

Posted by: kalorama | January 31, 2008 01:22 PM
-------------------------------------------
I gotta disagree with you. I don't think Ernie will ship either guy off without seeing them play more, to try and determine how good they will be. Also, both those guys are cheap. The Wiz are close to the cap and Abe won't go over. It will be hard to find an effective veteran scorer to trade for with a matching salary. Next year, assuming that Caron and Gilbert are both healthy and this team looks ready to take the next step, I think Ernie would make a deal.

Posted by: Dude | January 31, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

"The Wiz are close to the cap and Abe won't go over. It will be hard to find an effective veteran scorer to trade for with a matching salary."

Actually, they're already about $13 mill over the cap. It's the luxury tax they're bumping up against. A straight up deal might be somewhat difficult to do, but there are always ways to get a deal done. The bottom line is that, if the Wiz really have aspirations of making a serious playoff run when Gilbert returns, they're going to need more reliable help off the bench than what they've got. The issue isn't hoe good Young, Pecherov, Blatche, et all will be. The question the Wizards are facing is how long can they afford to wait to find out?

Posted by: kalorama | January 31, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

"As for CB playing in the ordeal that is the NBA All-Star game. If CB is playing prior to the All-Star game then it should be up to him. If he is still out for us, then of course he shouldnt.

The game itself isnt taxing, and he could always go to Rivers and say just play me a few minutes. As hard as he has working in the off-season and as much as he has meant to the Wiz, he should represent WAS if he is able to.

Posted by: JSchon | January 31, 2008 12:55 PM "

The question really isn't just about the all star game, it's about the much ballyhooed all star weekend. A weekend of press requirements, festivities, travel, etc.

It was last season that CBut hurt his back b/c his plane sat on the runaway for too long a time. Another old fart here complained that he had the same problem too.

CBut may be better off sleeping in and resting that weekend, coupled with the days off before and after.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Actually, they're already about $13 mill over the cap. It's the luxury tax they're bumping up against.
Posted by: kalorama | January 31, 2008 02:23 PM
-------------------------------------------
Yeah, you are 100% correct. I meant to write luxury tax. I personally wouldn't be against a trade, but given the situation I don't think Ernie will make a deal. I haven't been following the rumors lately, have any veteran scorers names been floating around recently? (Besides the buyout guys like Cassell)

Posted by: Dude | January 31, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Rook, I have the same problem, you know,
you think if somebody's going to make a big deal about something like the Allstar picks. They'd at least know who picks the players.

But if you work really hard and stop yourself from thinking, it makes perfect nonsense, and in the 88 world that makes perfect sense.

Did you notice if you type 88 forwards or backwards it looks the same. You can even type it upside down, or upside down and backwards and it looks the same. Reading some of the twisted posts, makes perfect sense that he picked 88 to go by.

Posted by: GM | January 31, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Two players that avg 20 & 10 who were named to th all-star team did not play in the game because of injury . . .

"In the last 10 years, no player who averaged at least 20 points and 10 rebounds on a team with a winning record at the midway point of the season failed to make an all-star squad." -Ivan Carter, Thursday

"In the last 10 years, only two players who averaged at least 20 points and 10 rebounds while playing for a winning team at the break did not play in an all-star team." -Ivan Carter, Tuesday

Huh?

Posted by: LJ | January 31, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

EJ did pick CBut for the allstar game!
I read it on the internets!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/seanbonner/2086934736/

...if you need more proof, check the link.

Posted by: i smoke | January 31, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

"Did you notice if you type 88 forwards or backwards it looks the same. You can even type it upside down, or upside down and backwards and it looks the same. Reading some of the twisted posts, makes perfect sense that he picked 88 to go by.

Posted by: GM | January 31, 2008 03:35 PM "

There GM goes again, playing a poor man's shrink. I feel sorry for your daughter in law.

Stick to shoveling manure, and not posting on blogs. You still smell regardless.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

I am lying.

I say I am lying, but if everything I put on the Internet is the truth, then I am telling the truth. But I cannot tell the truth, because everything I say is a lie. But... I lie... I tell the truth but I cannot, for I lie......

I am not programmed to respond in that area.....

Posted by: Rook | January 31, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

That explains your fascination with stats, because stats lie.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

10-day contracts are band-aids. They're not going to get anyone off the street willing to work for minimum wage who's going to do anything other than fill space. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Young or Pecherov shipped off in a deadline deal for a vet scorer.

Posted by: kalorama | January 31, 2008 01:22 PM

*************************

No please, keep Nick Young. Give him time to develop. Pech isn't too bad either.
I vote to package off Mason perhaps w/ Pech or Mac. But I'd still vote to keep Pech. Just get rid of Mason for a "real" back up point.
There are 4 fantastic either new or rookie point guards, Deron Williams, Rondo(Boston)Calderon(Toronto) & the fantastic Chris Paul. We need an actualy point guard to back-up Arenas & Daniels...Mason ain't cuttin it. Pech needs to learn to play around the rim more but Mason has no depth, no size...we can do better. I just don't know who to package him with to get a descent pg.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 31, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Of course, let's not forget that it was EJ who chose Caron to be on last season's all star game.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 12:12 PM

because stats lie.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 04:29 PM



and you don't?

Posted by: Anonymous | January 31, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

yeah man, it all makes sense...

Stats lie, they lie like dogs... i'm getting deep into your philosophy now brah! deeeeeep...

puff puff (cough)

Keep up the great posts DCMan, UR Da Best!

My two favs right now are:

DC Mann 88!
And
LOL CATS! (I can has cheesburger?) so cute!

So, DC man, when did you find out EJ picked CBut for all-star game 2007?

THAT IS CLUTCH INFO! No wonder CBut likes EJ and Gil! Pay for play right?!

Posted by: i smoke | January 31, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

"and you don't?

Posted by: | January 31, 2008 05:12 PM "

And you don't?

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Gilbert doesn't. Just the truth.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 31, 2008 9:06 PM | Report abuse

Yeah sure.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

jeese DC man, you got another great scoop
EJ sent him again!

Posted by: i smoke | January 31, 2008 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Sure yeah.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 31, 2008 9:55 PM | Report abuse

I still dont understand why DCman thinks EJ send Caron? I was just asking...waiting for an answer.

Posted by: Donk | January 31, 2008 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Yeah sure.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 31, 2008 11:54 PM | Report abuse

CDman, doesn't need to give answers or back down!

He doesn't waste his time in contemplation!
LoLz i wrote CD man! His responses are faster than thought! His keyboard doesn't have a backspace and neither does he! You are living in the past if you want to get him to respond to his previous posts! Fools.

(cough)

Posted by: i smoke | February 1, 2008 3:31 AM | Report abuse

OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH YYYYYYYEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
BROTHER!

Posted by: Anonymous | February 1, 2008 8:10 AM | Report abuse

Did someone invite Randy "Macho Man" Savage to the pardee?

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 1, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Did someone invite Randy "Macho Man" Savage to the pardee?

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 1, 2008 09:14 AM

NO, EJ sent him.

Posted by: Donk | February 1, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

First off, the Macho Man is a 6 time World Heavyweight Champ and a 1 time Havard Lampoon Man of the Year. Yeeeeaaah. Nobody sends the Macho Man anywhere and he doesn't need an invitation. DIG IT! Now onto business, yeah. GILBERT ARENAS! The Macho Man heard you like to run around with parachutes and talk about how great you are. Well you ain't gonna be talkin for a while, cuz Macho is gonna crush your throat like he did to that pipsqueak Steamboat back in '86. OHHHHHHHH YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! You ain't ready for the Madness punk!!! DIG IT!

Posted by: R.Savage, Esq. | February 1, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Randy, you have no future. STFU.

Posted by: Elizabeth from the grave | February 1, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Tough Juice would crush The Macho Man.

I'm just saying.

Posted by: Donk | February 1, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Lemme tell ya somethin Mean Donk. Tough Juice don't want none of this. Dude's a beast though, I wouldn't mind tagging up with him at all. Much rather have him in my corner than the idiot Hogan. DIG IT! Miss Elizabeth I took you straight to....the....TOP! YEAH! Machos got a bright future, thats why he wears oversized glasses and ridiculous cowboy hats even indoors! OOOOOOOHHHHH YYYEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHH!

Posted by: R.Savage, Esq. | February 1, 2008 3:44 PM | Report abuse

young wants so badly to play in the west exspeacially in LA,CA nick young would go for free so that he can be with his family and friends and girlfriend and believe me their are lots of other team that would trade for nick young put him out there we all love MR. EXCITEMENT NICK YOUNG clipper

Posted by: jerry smith | February 5, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

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Posted by: gxwjnbjcsl | March 12, 2008 6:14 PM | Report abuse

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