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So much for the defense

So on the same day the Post runs my front page story detailing how well the Wizards have been playing defense (Yes, you read that right) the Wiz go out and play very little of it during a humiliating 121-85 loss at Cleveland. Go figure.

It was actually a game at halftime when the LeBrons led 52-46 but that's when the Wiz went down like the stock market. The Wiz missed their first nine shots of the third quarter and you may notice a trend when you look at what those shots were: Antonio Daniels 23-footer, DeShawn Stevenson 20-footer, Caron Butler three-pointer, Butler 14-footer, Brendon Haywood tip-in, Antawn Jamison three-pointer, Hawood fadeaway 12-footer, Haywood running 8-foot hook and a Daniels 13-foot jumper. Needless to say, they weren't high quality shots and the Cavs made the Wiz pay with a bunch of layups and high percentage jump shots.

It was 78-56 after former Wizard Larry Hughes provided the ultimate indignity by dribbling down the lane between four Wizards and putting down a two-handed dunk. I mean, Larry doesn't even dunk anymore but he could not have had a more clear path to the basket. Anyway, the Cavs outscored the Wiz 43-17 in the third and that was that.

Afterward, Coach Eddie Jordan was not pleased but he did provide some humor when he said that he probably gave the wrong pre-game speech. "Pregame we said 'this is a big stage tonight.' It's two teams that really have it going the last six, seven, eight, nine games in the eastern conference. Got a little history on their floor."

Well, the Wiz certainly didn't play like it was a big game. Meanwhile, the Cavs are rolling. They've won 12 of the last 14 with a formula that is similar to the one they used to get to the Finals last spring: tons of LeBron James, a nice helping of Zydrunas Ilgauskas, defense and rebounding. That's pretty much what they do.

"We just moved the ball," James said. "They tried to blitz me and double me in the post but guys made shots on the backside. Z took over the first couple of minutes of the first quarter and we just rolled with Z the rest of the game. Offensively, we were unbelievable tonight."

No kidding. The Cavs finished with 39 assists and six turnovers. No team has done that since at least 1977-78 which is as far back as the league could go in tracking those stats.

The good news for the Wiz is that it was one bad game and now they'll get today to move on prepare for tomorrow night when the Grizzlies come town. Juan Carlos Navarro.......

By Ivan Carter  |  January 24, 2008; 6:29 AM ET
 
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Next: All-Star Reserves: Part I

Comments

I blinked at half time, and when I looked again they were up by 30! The shame the embarassment. I sure hope the coaches sit the team down for some tape study today and point out each mistake. Learn from it shall we?

Posted by: rgz | January 24, 2008 7:12 AM | Report abuse

To user a calmer word for the infamous phrase:

"Stuff Happens."

It's just one game

Posted by: James | January 24, 2008 7:21 AM | Report abuse

Maybe NY shouldn't have dunked on Lebron's face. It was downhill from there.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 8:06 AM | Report abuse

Hey DC Man88, still wanna trade Arenas?

Posted by: Bart | January 24, 2008 8:11 AM | Report abuse

As Walt Frazier once said, when the Knicks lost a close game, he stayed awake all night replaying the game and wondering what they did wrong. When they got blown out he just went to sleep and chalked it up as one that got away from. Surely no one thought the Wiz weren't going to lose anymore games this season and some very badly.

Posted by: browneri | January 24, 2008 8:32 AM | Report abuse

I've had a night to stew on the Wiz and the Caps losing.

Still disappointed...

This game still only counts as 1 loss, but its definitely checked as a bad loss, even though its against a good team...

Good Wins
Dallas
Boston
Boston
Dallas

Bad Losses
Philly
Memphis
Chicago (how we lost)
Atlanta (2nd str8 loss at home)
Indiana (3rd str8 loss)
Cleveland

Not including the first 8 games

Posted by: JSchon | January 24, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

In any season where you play upwards of 100 games (including pre- and post- season), you're going to have some clunkers like last night. I'm betting we see a maximum effort tomorrow night against JCN and the Grizz, and I'm still optimistic about our prospects for this year, especially when Arenas returns.

Posted by: rbpalmer | January 24, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

rgz, some game tapes are just better to burn.

Posted by: GM | January 24, 2008 8:54 AM | Report abuse

In any season where you play upwards of 100 games (including pre- and post- season), you're going to have some clunkers like last night. I'm betting we see a maximum effort tomorrow night against JCN and the Grizz, and I'm still optimistic about our prospects for this year, especially when Arenas returns.

Posted by: rbpalmer | January 24, 2008 08:51 AM

No doubt, but it doesnt mean we cant be critical of the effort displayed on the court against our arch nemesis. Its only 1 loss, but it stung last night.

I was never one to proclaim them champs and I'm not saying they're a lottery team...

The game was unwatchable in the 2nd half. Not what I was expecting.

Posted by: JSchon | January 24, 2008 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Anybody still think that we're a great team without Gilber Arenas please raise your hand!

Like it or not we're going to battle for the 5th - 8th seed. Any slip up and they can end up with an early vacation.

We need Gil. I can see that Caron, AJ and AD running out of gas near playoff time.

Posted by: Fortune Teller | January 24, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Fortune Teller, who's the Skins next coach? Pls don't say Fassel.
That dunk in LeBron's grill by Young was pretty funny. Young got hammered across the face at the same time. I don't watch Sportscenter but that's one they oughtta show in super slow-mo. I'd like to thank the Cavs for calling timeout rught after the dunk, too. It gave Comcast a chance to show it from 3 different angles. Nice !
As for the game, it was just a bad night.

Posted by: mark | January 24, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Mark - One thing I can assure you it won't be Joe Gibbs.

A lot of people are getting down on NY and DM play so far. I guess there was a reason why NY was not a lottery pick and DM was taken in the 2nd round. It will take NY and AB a couple of years more to be effective. As for DM, he'll be a bench player.

Posted by: Fortune Teller | January 24, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Sportscenter showed ONLY Cavs highlights, not ONE Wiz highlight. Not that we deserved any. The importance of this game is BIG BIG BIG. Its because it was against the team, the man, we all hate. They killed us 2 years in a row. The win from early this season was without Lebron or Larry on the floor. It just shows that we need reinforcements because in a playoff series, teams will figure out how to stop the Princeton offense and we will need that killer, go-to-the-hoop, instinct from someone other that AJ or CB, but who?................

Posted by: Burg w/ a U | January 24, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

i take some great things away from this game: starters got a lot of rest - bench got valuable experience, 21 assists vs 9 turnovers. ok - not really. that sucked.

Posted by: random dude | January 24, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

"Anybody still think that we're a great team without Gilber Arenas please raise your hand!

Like it or not we're going to battle for the 5th - 8th seed. Any slip up and they can end up with an early vacation.

We need Gil. I can see that Caron, AJ and AD running out of gas near playoff time.

Posted by: Fortune Teller | January 24, 2008 09:03 AM "

Oh, we got beaten by the team that went to the finals last year. The sky is falling!

Please keep the Gilby hero comments to rest. Gilby couldn't beat them in the playoffs when he was healthy either.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

"Hey DC Man88, still wanna trade Arenas?

Posted by: Bart | January 24, 2008 08:11 AM "

Yeah, how can we do it?

Gilby couldn't have done a darn thing on defense to stop them either, and I don't think Gilby could have kept up with the offense either also!

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Both Caron and Antawn feed off Gilbert's success. Last night's game may have been different if he were in the lineup. I can't wait for his return. The "coming off the bench" idea is intriguing, but I don't see Gilbert being a bench player for very long. The guy is an All-Star, franchise player that needs to start.

I predict a huge win over the Grizz on Friday. JCN who?

Posted by: The AntiDCMan | January 24, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Sorry DCMan I don't debate on people like you? Next!

By the way, our bench is better than last year BUT not that great to get us deep in the playoffs.

Posted by: Fortune Teller | January 24, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

anyone else think that larry hughes took a full extra step on that much ballyhooed 2 handed dunk? it's mentioned in all of the game recap articles i've read and it's on the espn highlights. i'm only able to watch on a small, somewhat fuzzy, internet video, but it sure looks like 3 steps to me. not that a travelling non-call would be news in the nba, i guess i'm just surprised that a dunk that was only possible with what i consider to be an obvious violation would get such positive press.

Posted by: AC | January 24, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Well, lets' see...

Last season, GA had a terrible game against Cleveland the first time around, scoring only 7 on Nov 1 yet we only lost by 3. In that game, GA realized his shot wasn't falling so he only took 12 shots, making 2. He compensated by dishing out 11 assists. (That's what good players do. When their shot isn't falling, they rebound, play extra defense or dish). Cleveland's PG's (Snow and Damon Jones) combined for 11 points.

GA scored 45 against the Cavs with 6 assists and we won in November 18.
Cleveland's PG's combined for 14 in that game.

I'd say he makes a difference.

Posted by: mark | January 24, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

"

Both Caron and Antawn feed off Gilbert's success. Last night's game may have been different if he were in the lineup. I can't wait for his return. The "coming off the bench" idea is intriguing, but I don't see Gilbert being a bench player for very long. The guy is an All-Star, franchise player that needs to start.

I predict a huge win over the Grizz on Friday. JCN who?

Posted by: The AntiDCMan | January 24, 2008 10:55 AM "

Caron, AJ, and Gilby feed off each other. Obviously, Caron and AJ don't only rely on Gilby for success.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

"Sorry DCMan I don't debate on people like you? Next!

By the way, our bench is better than last year BUT not that great to get us deep in the playoffs.

Posted by: Fortune Teller | January 24, 2008 10:58 AM "

Don't be sorry.

I don't care!

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

"I'd say he makes a difference.

Posted by: mark | January 24, 2008 11:14 AM "

Gilby could have made a difference last night, but that doesn't mean the outcome would have changed.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

DCMan - Reply....no IGNORE! Next!

Posted by: Fortune Teller | January 24, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

This was in a word horrible, as a fan where do you begin, nobody played well we need to bury this tape. EJ needs to remind them that as a team they were taken to the woodshed by the LEBRONS. They need to remember this game in terms of their personal pride as professionals.Memphis comes to town on Friday with JCN,are you ready DeShawn?

Posted by: DARGREGMAG@AOL.COM | January 24, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

This was in a word horrible, as a fan where do you begin, nobody played well we need to bury this tape. EJ needs to remind them that as a team they were taken to the woodshed by the LEBRONS. They need to remember this game in terms of their personal pride as professionals.Memphis comes to town on Friday with JCN,are you ready DeShawn?

Posted by: DARGREGMAG@AOL.COM | January 24, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Yeah I sincerely hope that we expose JCN for what he is... a guy who can do nothing except shoot if wide open. The guy is a younger Damon Jones or a current JJ Redick. He killed us last time but we really need to shut him down just to prove a point.

Posted by: freedom0125 | January 24, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Same story all over again! With this type of performance, Cavs will beat Wiz in the playoffs. Ilgauskas figured out how to play against Haywood. Lebron, just too big and strong. Big lineup too if you include Gooden & Varejao. All that Caron, Daniels, Deshawn, Antawn can do is to shoot way outside. The Wiz is really missing one big strong forward to just crash the inside on offense and defense. Blatche is not there yet, but I think he could be a good player in the future. Just needs to work on upper body strength and he'll be fine.

Posted by: bdunkadunk | January 24, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone know if John Mitchell left the Washington Times and/or the Wizards beat? Did Etan put a hit on him?

Posted by: Anonymous | January 24, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

There's nothing wrong with having a guy who's a deadly shooter. Anybody remember Steve Kerr, Craig Hodges, and John Paxson? Every team needs one of those.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

I love how all the stevenson lovers disappear unless he has one of those rare great games. I would still take Navarro over him anyday. He puts up better #'s in less minutes and has games where he's just unstoppable.

"Guess who's heating up again? Yep, it's JC Navarro, with four 20-plus point scoring games in a recent eight-day stretch. He made 23-of-38 3s in that span and shot over 50 percent from the field."

Stevenson gets hot but not like that

Posted by: Anonymous | January 24, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Forgot to post my name I know how everyone cries if their is no name

I love how all the stevenson lovers disappear unless he has one of those rare great games. I would still take Navarro over him anyday. He puts up better #'s in less minutes and has games where he's just unstoppable.

"Guess who's heating up again? Yep, it's JC Navarro, with four 20-plus point scoring games in a recent eight-day stretch. He made 23-of-38 3s in that span and shot over 50 percent from the field."

Stevenson gets hot but not like that

Posted by: Beas | January 24, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Want to trade Gilbert for Shaq?

Two injured stars, helps both teams.

Posted by: Clewiston88 | January 24, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Want to trade Gilbert for Shaq?

Two injured stars, helps both teams.

Posted by: DC Man 88 | January 24, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Want to trade Gilbert for Shaq?

Two injured stars, helps both teams.

Posted by: Gilby | January 24, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Want to trade Gilbert for Shaq?

Two injured stars, helps both teams.

Posted by: GM | January 24, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Want to trade Gilbert for Shaq?

Two injured stars, helps both teams.

Posted by: mark | January 24, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Want to trade Gilbert for Shaq?

Two injured stars, helps both teams.

Posted by: Lisa | January 24, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Eventhough we got our butts kicked last night, I was glad to see the bench get valuble time and I think that dmac played good with a lot of energy, he was all over the place. Its too early to give up on this kid, a lot of us on this board were calling NY a bust and look how he's been a pleasant suprise for us. These kid are in a new situation and the princeton offense that the wizards run isn't an easy one to pick up, mark my words, these young players that we have are going to be special.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 24, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

""Guess who's heating up again? Yep, it's JC Navarro, with four 20-plus point scoring games in a recent eight-day stretch. He made 23-of-38 3s in that span and shot over 50 percent from the field."

Stevenson gets hot but not like that

Posted by: Beas | January 24, 2008 01:03 PM

How old is that quote, Beas? 'Cause here's a more recent one from espn.com

"Wednesday's Worst Juan Carlos Navarro, Grizzlies guard: While his Spanish countryman Jose Calderon was tormenting the Celtics, Navarro was netting two points and zero assists in 16 minutes of action in a 112-85 loss to the Magic."

Posted by: kalorama | January 24, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

No, I don't want to trade Gilbert for Shaq, you idiot. Gilbert is going to be back in a month, and he'll probably be at least 70-80 percent of his old self. Shaq ain't never going to be 70-80 percent of what he once was, ever again.

That third quarter was ugly. I can't figure out what happened, since the Wizards have been playing really tough on defense consistently. The offensive breakdown was equally puzzling--it was as if they just decided to stop running the Princeton and take contested jumpers. That in turn led to a lot of easy transition buckets for the Cavs, which exacerbated the whole situation.

They better not play this way against Memphis. They suck, but not so badly that they couldn't steal a game, especially if Navarro gets a lot of uncontested 3 point attempts or gets into the lane for runners.

Posted by: DC Manhandled88 | January 24, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

i can't beleive people on her still moaning about I wish we had navarro he puts up better #'s than deshawn. hahaha that is funny, scoring numbers maybe but no way on any level does he come remotely close to DS in defense. with JCN we don't beat boston or dallas. navarro plays d like a bullfighter(just move). You couldn't have paid me to keep him. The key to this teams sucess is defense not offense. JCN could not have played the kind of D this team needs. Like EJ said team defense is as strong as the weakest link, if one person slacks it screws it up for everyone. With JCN on our team we would be the same team as last yr giving up 100-105pts a game not 96. Defense wins championships not a pile of offense and prayer on D. what makes Kobe the best isn't the fact he is a offensive machine it's the fact that he is a lock down defender, Thats why he is a better player than gil. Gil doesn't have that type of D (yet hopefully). Offense makes a good player defense makes a great player. Ask ben wallace, bruce bowen, hell dennis rodman. The list goes on. I'll take DS over JCN any day,time,place.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 24, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

i can't beleive people on her still moaning about I wish we had navarro he puts up better #'s than deshawn. hahaha that is funny, scoring numbers maybe but no way on any level does he come remotely close to DS in defense. with JCN we don't beat boston or dallas. navarro plays d like a bullfighter(just move). You couldn't have paid me to keep him. The key to this teams sucess is defense not offense. JCN could not have played the kind of D this team needs. Like EJ said team defense is as strong as the weakest link, if one person slacks it screws it up for everyone. With JCN on our team we would be the same team as last yr giving up 100-105pts a game not 96. Defense wins championships not a pile of offense and prayer on D. what makes Kobe the best isn't the fact he is a offensive machine it's the fact that he is a lock down defender, Thats why he is a better player than gil. Gil doesn't have that type of D (yet hopefully). Offense makes a good player defense makes a great player. Ask ben wallace, bruce bowen, hell dennis rodman. The list goes on. I'll take DS over JCN any day,time,place.

Posted by: j.c rock | January 24, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

OH WELL!

Posted by: Anonymous | January 24, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

kALORAMA

The quote is from an article posted today on ESPN Insider. Its not old at all Navarro has been playing very well. They rank him as a top 5 rookie right now.

Posted by: BEAS | January 24, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

jc rock.......I think its very funny how everyone says Gilbert makes up for his lack of Defense with his offense. Well guess what JCN does the same thing. Its funny how everything changes with peoples arguments.

Posted by: Beas | January 24, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Oh im sorry Kalorama the article was posted yesterday on ESPN Insider here is the link.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Rookies-080123

Posted by: Beas | January 24, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

He does shoot better than Juan but his defense is much worse than Juan and definitely weaker and slower. No thanks.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 24, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

jc rock I agree with most of ur statements. That is exactly why I want to get rid of Gilbert b/c this team will be good with D not 80 3 point shots a game and with no team O or D. I just say the Navaroo stuff b/c everyone tries to make that argument about Gilbert when I say he plays no D. It goes both way. People need to get over Gilbert he is the single most overrrated player in the NBA hands down

Posted by: Beas | January 24, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Kalorama is the article recent enough for you?

Posted by: Beas | January 24, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Ill take navarro. yes stevenson plays much better D but he only shows up about 1 in 5 games. He will score 19 and play great D then the next game he will walk around play no D and score maybe 5 points. Navarro has some bad games but if and when he is hot watch out he can score 20 in 15 minutes.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 24, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

29 year old rookie that is...

Posted by: Anonymous | January 24, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Calm down, people. We now have a body of work on which to start making judgments about this team. One game doesn't render that meaningless. The fact is that the Wiz have played very solid ball since their Smell-O-Rama start.

Not only have they survived since Gil went down, they've thrived. When Gil gets back, so much the better. It never, ever hurts to have a 30 ppg. scorer on your team. To me, the Wiz look like from anywhere between the third and fifth best team in the conference.

When Arenas gets back, he could well push them to third, or possibly higher, if their commitment to defense continues. Last night's game was a blip. Every team, EVERY TEAM, has them.

Posted by: Keithinator | January 24, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

No way Gilbert is more overrated than Vince Carter.

Posted by: The Yawn Dude | January 24, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Want to trade Gilbert for Shaq?

Two injured stars, helps both teams.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 01:10 PM


No, you idiot. What the hell is wrong with this guy?

Posted by: Joe | January 24, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Want to trade Gilbert for Shaq?

Two injured stars, helps both teams.

Posted by: Joe | January 24, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

How a guy is ranked really doesn't mean a whole lot in regards to how he'd fit in with a team. With Gil down, if the Wizards would have let Stevenson go, what would the backcourt looked like?

Memphis is terrible defensively, even worse when Navarro is on the floor. If Jordan would have ended up starting Daniels and Navarro who'd have matched up with all the big twos the Wiz end up facing?

Not like Navarro wouldn't have been a nice complimentery pc to have. He really can nail the three, but he's not physical at all. Kerr was slow but tough and guarded with alot of guile, Juan Carlos can't even get close enough to wave a cape at these guys as they go by.

Just goes to show these rankings are all about offensive statistics and really don't mean much. All that said, since we didn't sign him he'll probably drop 30 on the Wiz. It always seems to work out that way.

He can drop 40 for all I care as long as we get the win.

I maybe old, gullible, yadda, yadda, yadda... but I sure wasn't dumb enough to post the Shaq/Arenas trade idea. Anyone but maybe a nine year old would know Arenas makes 11m and Shaq 22m or some ungodly amount. No way to even think about making that fit.

If the Wiz want an old broken down center they could sign Moses Malone, he's in his 50's but would probably look better then Shaq has most of this year. Watching Shaq this year has been almost painful, he looks like old Tom Boerwinkle that played for the Bulls in the early 70's. The guy used to take up space and suma wrestle for rebounds.

Sad to see one of the greats struggle like Shaq has this year, if he wasn't owed so much money I wonder if he would have retired already? Because his heart sure doesn't seem to be in it anymore.

Posted by: GM | January 24, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

The Bucks blew the Suns off of the floor on the last game of a road trip, as the tee shirt says,".... happens".

Some days more then others.

Posted by: GM | January 24, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

"Want to trade Gilbert for Shaq?

Two injured stars, helps both teams.

Posted by: Joe | January 24, 2008 03:31 PM "

Joe, you are an idiot. That's a stupid trade proposal, and you are even dumber.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

"I maybe old, gullible, yadda, yadda, yadda... but I sure wasn't dumb enough to post the Shaq/Arenas trade idea. Anyone but maybe a nine year old would know Arenas makes 11m and Shaq 22m or some ungodly amount. No way to even think about making that fit.

Posted by: GM | January 24, 2008 03:32 PM "

GM, you are very gullible and naive if you think I actually proposed that stupid trade with Gilby for Shaq.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Did they lose by 43 point????????

Wasn't Butler in LeBron's Grillllllll?
no.

What a sorry and pathetic loss.
Still mediocre at best. Definitely a team in progress. Maybe next year.

They'll do their usual - beat Memphis CUZ "ITS THEIR HOME COURT!!!!"

I guess you can look at it this way..
Cleveland was the toughest opponent they've encountered all year???

And their daddy, Cleveland, bent them over and "spanked em" handlily, embarrassed them nationally and sent them home to beat up on the Griz. OOOh Domestic violence..

You either have defense or you don't.
You better pray they don't have any injuries but who knows..

Posted by: Anonymous | January 24, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Want to trade Gilbert for Shaq?

Two injured stars, helps both teams.

Posted by: GM | January 24, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Look GM, someone hijacked your name too! sh!t happens!

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

The Wiz beat Dallas by nearly 20 points a few nights ago and Boston twice in a row. Does that mean Dallas and Boston are not very good teams?

The Wiz were blown out at in the third quarter, their game disintegrated, it happens, don't read too much into the game.

Ivan's story about Arenas starting when he returns still begs the question, where, at point or at two? I'd like to hear EJ say something on that subject.

Posted by: Myshkin | January 24, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

I don't feel the slightest bit of sympathy for Shaq, Wade, Riley, or anyone else on the Heat. They knowingly mortgaged the team's future to win a title right away. It worked, but now they're paying the inevitable price. Their team is old, slow, broken down, and overpriced. They're deep in the lottery and will stay there for several more years, and unless they find a magic wand to turn this around fast, there's a good chance Wade will bolt in a couple years when his opt out clause is up.

Posted by: kalorama | January 24, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

"Ivan's story about Arenas starting when he returns still begs the question, where, at point or at two? I'd like to hear EJ say something on that subject.

Posted by: Myshkin | January 24, 2008 04:00 PM "

I posted the response to your question yesterday from Ivan's chat. Ivan basically said "Gilbert needs the ball in his hands. Go ask him."

I think that clearly means the "1."

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

If DWade gets voted into the all star game as a starter, that would defy the unwritten rule that players on bad teams don't get noticed. This is especially the case with DWade since he was out for awhile this season b/c of his shoulder.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Unfortunatley people have been stealing my name, so I will now go by the name Clewiston88. Anything posted by "DC Man88" is NOT me, and should be disregarded.

And no, I did not propose the Gilby for Shaquie trade.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Clueless, this is even below you...."Shaquie"?????

Posted by: Jose | January 24, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Ivan said Gilbert needs the ball in his hand not Eddie said ... Or did Eddie say it?
Which brings me back to the question about the ball in hand. Allen Iverson and Dwayne Wade both play the 2, both are guys who create with the ball, why not Gilbert at two?

Posted by: Myshkin | January 24, 2008 5:10 PM | Report abuse

"Shaquie"

lol

Posted by: Anonymous | January 24, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

JCN debate still? Come on....have you checked the teams records lately??? And who said DS has many bad nights where he neither scores or plays defense? That's not true. I've never claimed him to be a lock down defender, but he is a good defender almost always. Plus he plays the other teams best and most athletic scorers most nights. Not an easy task.

Vince Carter is by far the most overrated player. I think Kidd is not far behind and Jefferson too! That's why the Nets suck so bad. Three supposed all-star caliber players and a losing record. Yeah right!

I think the Cavs give the Wiz problems bc they have a big bulky front court and they really expose Jamison and BH/CB to some extent too! To me our strategy against them should be to run run run. Of course, you got to rebound etc to do so. Etan would be nice to have against them and also maybe the Blatche Haywood combo or any bigger front court should be tried. Eddie did not have a very good game either!!!

Posted by: Rob P | January 24, 2008 7:14 PM | Report abuse

88'er, I mentioned a nine yr old. Sorry if you thought that somhow people might have thought that could have been you.

You're still the only poster that has confessed to posting under other's name. And by golly 88'er you did it again.

You're right, sh!t does seem to happen alot when you're around.

Posted by: GM | January 24, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

DS's normal role isnt that of someone we COUNT on to hoist up 3's. He was the 4th option last year and this year, when GA comes back, he might be the 5th option with the emergence of BTH.

He is a tough perimeter defender, thats why he's here, thats why we resigned him instead of JCN.

DS does disappear from time to time on the offensive end, good thing we have NY and RM.

While GA has been out he has been playing a role that doesnt really suit his strengths.

Posted by: JSchon | January 24, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Gil might not play D but his O is sorely needed. His ability to create on his own when the Princeton breaks down is certianly missing. Caron as great as he is, is a slow ball handler and really can't break down defenses. When we get to the playoffs and teams can really concentrate on defending our offense thats where we will miss Gils ability to create and draw fouls. As far as overrated. How can a man who hits countless game winners, is one of the top 3 in scoring, one of the top in getting to the line,maybe the best in the league at creating his own shot, yet barely makes the allstar team be overrated. He can't be. Gils down side is his d no dought. But if Jamison can pick it up on D so can Gil. But to compare him to JCN as some of you have done weather intentional or not is crazy. JCN isn't good enough Offensively to say it makes up for his D. Gil is. Thats still no excuse for the way Gil plays D. And Gils lack of D could possiblly hurt us right now as far as him being a weak link. Everyone else has finally stepped up on D even though it took a while, I still Give Gil a shot Before letting him go or trading him.

Posted by: jc rock | January 24, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Gil might not play D but his O is sorely needed. His ability to create on his own when the Princeton breaks down is certianly missing. Caron as great as he is, is a slow ball handler and really can't break down defenses. When we get to the playoffs and teams can really concentrate on defending our offense thats where we will miss Gils ability to create and draw fouls. As far as overrated. How can a man who hits countless game winners, is one of the top 3 in scoring, one of the top in getting to the line,maybe the best in the league at creating his own shot, yet barely makes the allstar team be overrated. He can't be. Gils down side is his d no dought. But if Jamison can pick it up on D so can Gil. But to compare him to JCN as some of you have done weather intentional or not is crazy. JCN isn't good enough Offensively to say it makes up for his D. Gil is. Thats still no excuse for the way Gil plays D. And Gils lack of D could possiblly hurt us right now as far as him being a weak link. Everyone else has finally stepped up on D even though it took a while, I still Give Gil a shot Before letting him go or trading him.

Posted by: jc rock | January 24, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Gil might not play D but his O is sorely needed. His ability to create on his own when the Princeton breaks down is certianly missing. Caron as great as he is, is a slow ball handler and really can't break down defenses. When we get to the playoffs and teams can really concentrate on defending our offense thats where we will miss Gils ability to create and draw fouls. As far as overrated. How can a man who hits countless game winners, is one of the top 3 in scoring, one of the top in getting to the line,maybe the best in the league at creating his own shot, yet barely makes the allstar team be overrated. He can't be. Gils down side is his d no dought. But if Jamison can pick it up on D so can Gil. But to compare him to JCN as some of you have done weather intentional or not is crazy. JCN isn't good enough Offensively to say it makes up for his D. Gil is. Thats still no excuse for the way Gil plays D. And Gils lack of D could possiblly hurt us right now as far as him being a weak link. Everyone else has finally stepped up on D even though it took a while, I still Give Gil a shot Before letting him go or trading him.

Posted by: jc rock | January 24, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

"Ivan said Gilbert needs the ball in his hand not Eddie said ... Or did Eddie say it?
Which brings me back to the question about the ball in hand. Allen Iverson and Dwayne Wade both play the 2, both are guys who create with the ball, why not Gilbert at two?

Posted by: Myshkin | January 24, 2008 05:10 PM "

I think everyone knows that Gilby wants the ball and won't come in as a 2. Even EJ said in today's article that Gilby will start when he comes back. I think EJ went into detail in Ivan's article because EJ is basically sending a message to Gilby without telling him face to face.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 9:29 PM | Report abuse

GM, you're such a silly and naive old b@stard. LOL!!!

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 24, 2008 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Miami>Washington...Almost beat SA tonight WITHOUT our best player.

Watch out, this team is going to pass the Wiz once Gilby comes back.

Posted by: Clewiston88 | January 24, 2008 10:47 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe Wade made the all star game. He sucks and so do the Heat.

Posted by: Clewiston88 | January 24, 2008 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Gilbert deserves making the all star game way more than Wade.

Posted by: Clewiston88 | January 24, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse

Gilbert deserves making the all star game way more than Wade.

Posted by: Clewiston88 | January 24, 2008 11:05 PM

Agreed.

Posted by: Clewiston88 | January 24, 2008 11:07 PM | Report abuse

I can't agree more with myself.

Posted by: Clewiston88 | January 24, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

GO AWAY!

Posted by: Lisa | January 24, 2008 11:35 PM | Report abuse

"Which brings me back to the question about the ball in hand. Allen Iverson and Dwayne Wade both play the 2, both are guys who create with the ball, why not Gilbert at two?"

When Iverson went to the Finals with the Sixers, he had a PG whose primary strength was defense. When the Heat won the title, their PG was a long range shooter. They both had PGs who could operate effectively and be asset to the team without the ball. Daniels, on the other hand, is a playmaker and game controller who's not a strong outside/spot up shooter shooter. If you take the ball out of hands you're basically rendering him largely ineffective. He and Gilbert can play together in spurts, but having them both in the starting lineup means you're basically asking one of them to play against their strengths at the beginning of the game, when the team needs to really get into an offensive flow.

Posted by: kalorama | January 25, 2008 12:51 AM | Report abuse

ClueLess finally has admitted to being DC Man88 / Clewiston88.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 25, 2008 3:04 AM | Report abuse

Many thanks to 88 and Kalorama for their two perspectives regarding Gilbert at the two with Daniels at point.

EJ talks about Arenas' return as a starter, not off the bench, not sure why he feels that way but it's not my issue. Ivan gives the usual rubric about Gil's needing the ball in hand that you guys buy into.

Gilbert is quoted by Ivan, "I don't want to mess up the rhythm these guys have going right now," Gilbert said to me (Ivan) at one point. "I want to make sure that I come in and help us keep rolling along." Sounds like a guy who would play at the two if asked. Gil has been watching what the Wiz are doing, he's a bright guy, a little flaky, okay a lot flaky but I suspect he'll try to fit in with where the Wiz are now, a team on the brink of moving into the NBA elite, not where they were when he left the team. Whether he plays point or not the most pertinent question is whether he'll play D. I think he might be inclined to play more D at the 2.

Of course the question is whether EJ and EG are willing to try Gil at the two, Daniels at point, Caron and Jamison at the forward positions and Haywood at center. That lineup seems superior. Adding firepower and offensive dimension by replacing Stevenson with Gil but keeping the floor general Daniels, who as I've heard John Thompson say, has been so important this season in elevating this team into a cohesive force.

Hard to question EG and EJ, their track record assembling this team is I think, unassailable. That said I can't help but question Arenas at point, Kalorama's comments regarding Daniels are interesting, he may not fit the PG mold that Iverson and Wade played with, but he has proven he knows how to run the team and win. As to the refrain, 'taking the ball out of his hands is rendering Gil ineffective,' I suspect that Daniels would make sure Gil got the ball, the added benefit is he would also get the ball to Butler, Jamison and Haywood.

Posted by: Myshkin | January 25, 2008 6:10 AM | Report abuse

We have evidence that GA is willing and able to lead and perform well under the new persona of the current team, buying into the system. Sure its only three games but the 3 games coincide with the coaching staff going back to the basics if you will. Here are some telling stats.
Game 1 WAS 101 - ATL 90
CB 24pts, 6rbs, 8ast
AJ 23pts, 15rbs, 3/7 3's
BH 13pts, 12rbs
DS 11pts, 4rbs, 3ast
GA 18pts, 4rbs, 6ast, 3stls
bench 6/21, 12pts, 12rbs, 7ast
opposing PG's combined
0-8 fgs, 2pts, 5rbs, 6ast

Game 2 WAS 103 - IND 90
CB 25pts, 7rbs, 3ast, 4stl
AJ 7pts, 5rbs, 3/11 fgs
BH 16pts, 11rbs
DS 4pts, 5rbs, 3ast
GA 30pts, 6rps, 11ast 9/18 fgs
bench 9/17 fgs, 22pts, 3ast, 6rbs
opposing PG's combined
6/14 fg, 18pts, 1rbs, 3ast

Game 3 WAS 105 - MIN 89
CB 29pts, 8rbs
AJ 14pts, 5rbs
BH 8pts, 11rbs
DS 7pts, 3rbs, 3ast
GA 27pts, 8ast, 4rbs, 4stl 9/19 fgs
bench 8/15 fgs, 20rbs, 9rbs, 6ast
opposing PG's combined
6/14 fg, 15pts, 1rb, 7ast

Look familiar?
There is no reason to believe that this couldnt continue when GA comes back into the fold in March.

The winning streak and better defense didnt start when GA went down it started in the 3 games started by GA before he went down.

Posted by: JSchon | January 25, 2008 7:12 AM | Report abuse

Thanks jSchon for setting the record straight. People often forget those 3 games. You can't argue with numbers.

Posted by: browneri | January 25, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse

Also, AJ had 2 bad shooting/rebounding nights. GA and CB picked up the slack. Now if either CB or AJ have off nights, more than likely we are going to struggle.

Posted by: JSchon | January 25, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

Myshkin,

One of the issues with Gilby at the 2 is that not only is he a poor defender to begin with, but he may be even worse when trying to defend the 2's in this league, who are usually more athletic than 1's.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 25, 2008 8:47 AM | Report abuse

"Kalorama's comments regarding Daniels are interesting, he may not fit the PG mold that Iverson and Wade played with, but he has proven he knows how to run the team and win."

That's exactly the point. He knows how to run the team. But in order to run the team he needs to control the ball. He won't be able to control the ball if he plays most of his minutes with Arenas, who also needs to control the ball to be effective.

"As to the refrain, 'taking the ball out of his hands is rendering Gil ineffective,' "

I never made any such refrain. I said taking the ball out of Daniels' hands would render him ineffective, because if he's starting with Arenas, odds are Arenas will be the one with the ball most of the time. Which leaves Daniels unable to do what he does best.

Posted by: kalorama | January 25, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Les BouleS players are clearly more effective when the ball is in AD's hands compared to Gilby's.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 25, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Clearly?
GA 5.9apg 104.9ppg
AD 5.3apg 99.0ppg

Clearly your vision is whacked.

Posted by: JSchon | January 25, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Clearly, you don't understand math.

With Gilby, the team averages 104.9 ppg.

With Gilby out, which subtracts his 30 ppg, the team averages 99.0ppg. That means the rest of the team makes up 24 ppg. without him, which means they are more effective.

AD is working with one less scorer and he's only .6 apg less?!

Sit down clown.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 25, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Kalorama,
What I am suggesting is that Daniels, as point guard would be the "game controller" and thus have the ball in his hands. I am suggesting this is possible and citing AI and D. Wade as analagous players.
You are suggesting that Gilbert could not make the adjustment to that approach, I think he could.
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind, because the conventional wisdom along with EJ and EG agrees with you, that it's nuts to take the ball out of Gilbert's hands.
Which then brings us to the question of what kind of team we will have when Gil returns at point if, as you believe, he can't play without the ball in his hands.

Posted by: Myshkin | January 25, 2008 5:52 PM | Report abuse

That only mean that the players making up for his production arent getting it done, so, the offense is more productive with GA rather than the bench.

find a new topic Herb

Posted by: JSchon | January 25, 2008 8:46 PM | Report abuse

You already proved my point.

A. Would I rather have GA @104.9

or

B. AD at 99.0

The answer is GA with 104.9, no question, no doubt...

you have 3 or 4 guys replacing one person... easy decision

Posted by: JSchon | January 25, 2008 8:55 PM | Report abuse

You're an idiot, crackhead. One guy scoring all the points and making other people stand around and watching his boring show has amounted to little playoff success.

What you failed to see is that the team is well rounded and is multidimensional. You can keep your five point higher average which hasn't resulted in that many more wins compared to last season.

I'll take team ball any day, and team ball has been bringing it on both ends of the court.

Loser!

PS. Anybody would take AD at 99 b/c that average is w/o Gilby in the lineup. Once Gilby returns, that average is sure to go higher since he's coupled with more EFFECTIVE PLAYERS. The point, as I stated before, is that Les BouleS PLAYERS are more effective!!

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 25, 2008 10:10 PM | Report abuse

The numbers speak for themselves.
Why you continue to argue against statistical facts prove to everyone here, not that they didnt already know, that you like balls in your mouth as you wear a nice pair of red pumps and puma sweats.

Posted by: JSchon | January 26, 2008 7:56 AM | Report abuse

Crackhead/JSchon, your mind is in your own little world.

My original statement was "Les BouleS PLAYERS are clearly more effective when the ball is in AD's hands compared to Gilby's."

Read this statement and reread it. I wasn't talking about the team as a whole.

With Gilby out of the lineup, everybody has picked up their games. Since Gilby is out of the lineup, that means the team is missing 30ppg of his output, but the team average shows only a 6ppg drop.

THEREFORE, AS I STATED BEFORE, "Les BouleS players are clearly more effective when the ball is in AD's hands compared to Gilby's."
and that's because each player has brought their averages up to compensate for Gilby by upping their scoring of 24 ppg. total.

GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR @SS!

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 26, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

"that you like balls in your mouth as you wear a nice pair of red pumps and puma sweats.

Posted by: JSchon | January 26, 2008 07:56 AM "

Don't mistake me for your dad.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 26, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Over the past 2 years, Daniels and Arenas have been on the floor together a lot. Quite often Eddie used them together as the 4th quarter unit. So I would expect this to be the case when Gil comes back. Arenas will start. AD will come in in the second quarter. Depending on how the game is going, Arenas will come in either for Daniels or whomever is in at the 2. Same deal in the second half. So I don't know why its such a big deal.

Posted by: Bowie, MD | January 26, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Other players are scoring this is true but that doesnt make it more effective.

If the object is to score more points then the current Wizards, w/o GA, are not as effective.

If the object is to have more player score fewer points then the current Wizards are more effective than the Wizards with GA.

The last time I checked you dont get any bonus points for having 8 players instead 7.

The last time I checked the team that scores the most points wins.

Posted by: JSchon | January 26, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

You're clearly expanding and creating an answer for your own question, not really addressing my statement.

I said the players are more effective with AD running the show, and it has shown because their numbers are up and the team is doing great.

Gilby's loss hasn't meant that the team is losing by over 30 pts a night, so that means the players are just that more effective and the record reflects that.

Also, the players are playing much more team ball and showing a lot of chemistry. Last season, the team looked disjointed because he didn't bring out the best in the team on the offensive end, and especially the defensive end.

Posted by: DC Man88 | January 26, 2008 6:39 PM | Report abuse

It's funny watching you chuckleheads talk past each other.

DC Man88 is saying that the OTHER Wizards players are more effective with Daniels playing the 1. The other players, the ones playing at the 2, 3, 4, and 5 positions.

Everyone else is saying that the Wizards as a team are better with Gilbert. That's the team as a unit, 1 through 5.

Everyone is right and everyone is being stupid.

The confusion is DC Man88's fault because he didn't make it clear what he was talking about. We shouldn't blame him though, since he comes from a family that doesn't speak engRish at home.

The question at hand: The OTHER Wizards players, the ones NOT playing point guard, are playing much better this year than in previous years. Every spot on the roster is playing better than before. The improvement has coincided with Gilbert's injury. DC Man88 believes there is a cause and effect relationship here. Discuss.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 27, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

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