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Larry Hughes to Chicago!

LeBron James said he was so upset that the Dallas Mavericks got Jason Kidd that he decided to clobber Dirk Nowitzki on that punishing, driving dunk in the final minute of the All-Star Game on Sunday. Likewise, James had to be upset when the Atlanta Hawks sneaked in and got Mike Bibby from Sacramento.

How does he feel today? Maybe a little better. Maybe.


That's funny, Larry. I wasn't really trying to give you five. I was waving goodbye. (AP Photo/Darron Cummings)

According to several league sources, the Cleveland Cavaliers made an effort to get James some help at the trade deadline buzzer, getting Ben Wallace from Chicago and Wally Szczerbiak and Delonte West from Seattle. But it meant that the Cavaliers had to give up Drew Gooden and former Wizard Larry Hughes, who had been a disappointment in Cleveland ever since he signed a five-year, $70 million contract in the summer of 2005.

It's debatable whether the package Cleveland received is better than Gooden and Hughes, but at least it's something different. At least it's something, after the Cavs have done little for James since he signed that contract extension in 2006. James has another shooter - Szczerbiak - and a tough, defensive-minded point guard in West. Maybe a change of scenery will energize Wallace. Maybe.

The three-team deal shook up what was about to be a relatively quiet trade deadline and it includes Cleveland, Chicago and Seattle. Here are the specifics:

Cleveland gets Ben Wallace, Wally Szczerbiak, Joe Smith and Delonte West.
Chicago gets Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Shannon Brown and Cedric Simmons
Seattle gets Donyell Marshall, Ira Newble and Adrian Griffin.

There are some other smaller pieces added, but those are the big ones.

Hughes is headed to Chicago, where he spends part of his offseasons working out with Michael Jordan's former trainer, Tim Grover. He's been miserable and injured for most of his time in Cleveland. The Cavaliers have been begging for a taker on Hughes, but his large contract and consistent injuries made him an unattractive trade chip - unless paired with Drew Gooden. Gooden should help resolve the Bulls need to have a scoring option in the low block. Hughes gives them a big guard.


Man, I miss playing with Chauncey, Rip, Sheed, Tayshaun and them boys. Huh? Did you say LeBron James? I'm out. (Photo by Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images)

The Bulls had been trying to move Wallace for some time. Wallace helped the Bulls win their first playoff series since Michael Jordan left in 1998, when Chicago swept the Miami Heat last season. But Wallace has been a bust since leaving Detroit to sign a four-year, $60 million deal in the summer of 2006. Think that Pistons-Cavs rivalry will have some more life now?

West has been Smile-less in Seattle since he was drafted from Boston in a draft deal with Szczerbiak for Ray Allen. He should be elated about leaving the 14-38, no-chance Sonics and joining the defending Eastern Conference champs.


By Michael Lee  |  February 21, 2008; 3:36 PM ET
 
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Next: Did The Cavs Really Get Better?

Comments

FROM ESPN.COM
Two of my most plugged-in sources say that the big trade Cleveland is pursuing, as our good friend Brian Windhorst warned us about in his Akron Beacon Journal blog, is a multiplayer exchange that would bring Ben Wallace to the Cavs.
We have not been apprised that any deal is close nor have we received a reliable read on the Bulls' level of interest, but we have been assured that it is being discussed: Wallace and teammates Chris Duhon and Joe Smith heading to Cleveland in exchange for a package headlined by Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes.
It also could be done with several other Cavs in Hughes' place, so we'll have to see if the Bulls simply pass, push for an alternative scenario or accept Hughes and allow Cleveland to proceed to Part 2.
Cleveland's other 11th-hour trade target to hearten LeBron James, after Jason Kidd and Mike Bibby landed elsewhere, is Seattle's Wally Szczerbiak, who holds appeal for LeBron's Cavs as a deadeye shooter and as a college-ball legend in Ohio.
It appears that the Cavs' preference is scoring Wallace first and then trying to add Szczerbiak. But the Cavs' usual obstacle -- they have only three expiring contracts (Ira Newble, Devin Brown and Shannon Brown) totaling not even half of the $13.3 million owed Wally next season to package with Donyell Marshall -- makes a successful play for Wally difficult even if the Wallace stuff doesn't go any farther

Posted by: Section101 | February 21, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

This is very good news for the Wizards. Ben Wallace and Wally for Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden? How does that make the Cavs better? It doesn't, unless Delonte West somehow becomes a difference maker.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 21, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

With the acquisition of Big Ben, it allows him to go to the 4 position where he'll have a better chance against people his size. Gooden has more scoring ability, but Ben makes it up in rebounding and defense, and the Cavs already have an inside scoring threat in Big Z. Also, the Cavs pick up another outside threat to add to Danny Gibson..two guys that Lebron can kick the ball out to when he drives and/or gets doubled.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 21, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Did the Cavs pick up a time machine in the trade, too?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 21, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Worthless trade at best...
BW is an offensive disaster... Please dont tell me he's been hiding a mid range jumper because he was being covered by taller players. He has never been able to face up anybody.

Gooden and Wallace both are averaging 8ish rebounds a game.

WS can put up points but he has never been able to cover anybody remotely athletic.

All this trade did was make CLE more of a watch LJ do his thing team.

Posted by: JSchon | February 21, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

The only good thing about that trade is ridding themselves of Hughes and his salary. But Wallace is grossly overpaid too based on his production the last few years. West is a good young point guard they can possibly develop but James really is the be all/end all for the Cavs. Not sure I like a non-rebounding Ben at the 4 although Z plays more from about 12 feet out. They will miss Gooden.

Posted by: G$ | February 21, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Some of these trades (from the outside looking in) appear to be "shake em up and see what happens" moves. From a chemistry standpoint, the Cavs hope that LeBron will jell with anyone other than Larry Hughes who was used as a combi guard.

Posted by: rgz | February 21, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Pech and McGuire being the only tradeable pieces on the Wiz must be breathing easier now with the deadline passed, unless something happened that was not announced yet.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 21, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Will the Cavs have any of these players available for the game tomorrow night? Because of trades and injuries I count six ready players.

Posted by: The Wiz | February 21, 2008 5:10 PM | Report abuse

This trade was nothing but, "Hey LeBron, see we're trying to win the title, we're really trying! Don't leave in a couple of years."

Won't work, the Cavs won't get back to the Finals and when LeBron opts out it is off to Brooklyn he goes!

Posted by: George Templeton | February 21, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Hurray! This deal does nothing for anybody, but shakes things up. I guess Seattle was just dumping bc they got nothing. Plus, who the hell is Cleveland playing tomorrow night? Even if their new guys play they will have had no practice whatsoever. Then again if the Wiz play like they played against the knicks it won't matter.

Anybody catch Philly beating NY by 40 the next night? Makes our lose hurt that much more!!!! Embarrassing to say the least.

Posted by: Rob P | February 21, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

100% agreed, George.

This deal may go down as the standard bearer of what can happen when a GM makes a panic trade in order to mollify a disgruntled superstar. If Ben Wallace isn't done, he can see done from his porch. The Cavs need a shooter and as long as he can stay healthy, Wallyworld could be of use. But $13 mill worth of use? I seriously doubt it.

Normally I'd congratulate them for managing to palm Hughes off on somebody but they may have pulled off the impossible by trading Hughes' millstone of a contract and still managing to come out on the short end.

Posted by: kalorama | February 21, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

It will be fun watching Ben Wallace trying to guard Jamison.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 21, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Thanks George and Kalorama for agreeing with my LeBron assessment.

Posted by: Tom Friend | February 21, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Juan Dixon to the Pistons

Posted by: Anonymous | February 21, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Nice little move for the Pistons.

Posted by: kalorama | February 21, 2008 5:42 PM | Report abuse

one more former wizard on the pistons. i love it.

Posted by: gidge | February 21, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

wiz are one and done. The cavs got better. there going to be a Defensive team. Huge front line Z and wallace. James, wally, and gibson. They have deadly shooters. Much better team. What was hughes doing anyway.

Posted by: smartfan | February 21, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

BTW, nice job on the photo captions.

Posted by: kalorama | February 21, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm now hoping that the Wizards face Cleveland in the first round. The Wizards now match up better with Cleveland. Gooden always was a problem.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 21, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse

and the big winner is...

Seattle!

Chicago should be better on offense, but I don't see how Cleveland improves. Smith is still a good sub and clears salary at the end of the year, Delonte is a nice rotation player, but Wally and Ben-Wa aren't what they used to be and come with huge price tags. They are going to be stuck with Wallace for at least two years with that god-awful contract. Wally is even a tough expiring contract because he makes so much next year.

Seattle, however, is basically ready to rebuild or have a really low payroll for potential suitors. They win the trade, because they actually accomplished something with it.

Yet, another GM taking a big risk for players past their primes.


Posted by: Pauly B. | February 21, 2008 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Funny. The Bobcats traded the Les BouleS killah, Walter "Air Jesus" Herrmann to the Pistons awhile ago and it wasn't even mentioned anywhere.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3257496

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 21, 2008 6:50 PM | Report abuse

It's funny how the disgruntled Les BouleS fans are coming out and bashing the Cavs and poo poo'ing their decision to make this trade. This trade was made with Lebron's consent, so if he's happy with it, and he thinks these guys will add to his team, then it's silly to make fun of this trade.

Don't forget, the Cavs swept us last playoffs, and also beat us the season before that.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 21, 2008 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Wizard faithful.......the Cavs were not going to come close to defending their conference title as they were..Hughes is intensely inconsistent...Gooden doesnt even play in the 4th quarter for the same reason. We didnt give up a lot...at all....we can throw a 4th quarter front line of Wallace, Z and Varejeo and LBJ can guard anyone else that needs guarding....think the Wiz match up against that?? It will end up being agood trade for the Cavs if Wally and Joe Smith can bring it...but the Cavs are better at 7 p.m.today than they were at 1 p.m., thats for sure..

Posted by: DC in C - Town | February 21, 2008 7:09 PM | Report abuse

We are analyzing the trade Herb. Thats it. We arent comparing them to the Wizards. We have our own gripe with them and their management.

My opinion is that the CLE made a move that didnt make them any better, in fact, you could say that they are more handicapped now with bad salaries than before, even with LH's.

Posted by: JSchon | February 21, 2008 7:12 PM | Report abuse

"We can throw a 4th quarter front line of Wallace, Z and Varejeo and LBJ can guard anyone else that needs guarding....think the Wiz match up against that??"

Um, yes. Wallace and Varejao aren't threats to score. You could pack the lane defensively and make LeBron take jumpshots.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 21, 2008 7:16 PM | Report abuse

13 million for Wally. 15 million for Ben Wallace. All for 18 ppg and two players past their primes (due to multiple injuries). Neither have been particularly good since the last injuries.

Smith and Delonte are nice pieces, but the expensive fellas are really risky acquisitions. I think if either plays well they better move them again this summer. Lebron will only get more demanding as the contract gets closer to the end.

I wonder if it's too late for Dan Gilbert to get in on that Brooklyn deal? (no, not the bridge).

Posted by: Pauly B. | February 21, 2008 8:22 PM | Report abuse

"13 million for Wally. 15 million for Ben Wallace. All for 18 ppg and two players past their primes (due to multiple injuries). Neither have been particularly good since the last injuries.

Smith and Delonte are nice pieces, but the expensive fellas are really risky acquisitions. I think if either plays well they better move them again this summer. Lebron will only get more demanding as the contract gets closer to the end.

I wonder if it's too late for Dan Gilbert to get in on that Brooklyn deal? (no, not the bridge).

Posted by: Pauly B. | February 21, 2008 08:22 PM "

Ain't it nice when the owner of your hometown franchise is willing to spend money to win? Must be nice. Wouldn't know.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 21, 2008 8:24 PM | Report abuse

"Um, yes. Wallace and Varejao aren't threats to score. You could pack the lane defensively and make LeBron take jumpshots.

Posted by: | February 21, 2008 07:16 PM "

Lebron is a great enough passer that he'll find the open man, and keep in mind they have Danny Gibson, a crazy 3 point threat.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 21, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

"We have our own gripe with them and their management.

My opinion is that the CLE made a move that didnt make them any better, in fact, you could say that they are more handicapped now with bad salaries than before, even with LH's.

Posted by: JSchon | February 21, 2008 07:12 PM "

LOL!

Jackoffschon, you really need to get a life if you have a gripe with a team and a franchise that's not your own. It must suck for a franchise to have swept Les BouleS last year and then all the way to the Finals, and of course, the previous year when our leader and hero Gilby choked on 3 free throws.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 21, 2008 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Whatever you say window licker.

Posted by: JSchon | February 21, 2008 8:52 PM | Report abuse

This will give LeBron two 3 point threats to kick the ball out to and a defensive power. Look for LeBron to have better numbers and the team to gel in a week or two. Z will also be able to play further away from the basket and get that sweet short jumper back.

Posted by: dog breath | February 21, 2008 9:02 PM | Report abuse

I MISS LARRY HUGHES WITH THE CAVS DATS MY HUSBAND

Posted by: Anonymous | February 21, 2008 9:17 PM | Report abuse

I MISS MY LARRY HUGHES DATS MY HUSBAND

Posted by: LARRY'S WIFEY | February 21, 2008 9:22 PM | Report abuse

"Whatever you say window licker.

Posted by: JSchon | February 21, 2008 08:52 PM "

Whatever you say @ss licker.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 21, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Wiz should have really tried to move a bench person and maybe AD to sure up thier bench.

If the starters finally get healthy a solid veteran off the bench could have done wonders.

This team is so thin.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | February 21, 2008 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Hey Cleveland Fans. Prepare for a nightmare. HA! You get Wallace who cannot score and is a terrible free throw shooter. His defense has gone down and rebounding has gone down. So why the celebration. Joe Smith could be a good addition to you though. Now lets look at our part of the deal we get Gooden and Hughes. Gooden now can score and rebound and a better free throw shooter than Wallace. Hughes can produce when needed. Wallace will also take up a lot of your salary room. Sure you get Wally from Seattle also. Not good enough. We Chicago win this battle.

Posted by: Rayyan | February 21, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

"We Chicago win this battle.

Posted by: Rayyan | February 21, 2008 10:03 PM "

Yeah, that really makes Chicago the team to beat in the East now, and they surely will represent the East in the finals this season.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 21, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

This deal won't win them the East, but it might get Chicago back in the playoff picture.

Posted by: kalorama | February 21, 2008 11:11 PM | Report abuse

This is another example of a GM(Ferry)succumbing to the pressure of a superstar(Lebron) instead of using common sense Big BEN is on the downside of his career Wally Z is injury prone and Delonte hasn't been the same since he left Boston,that being stated Hughes was a huge mistake,Gooden seemed to get in the way and the rest you can have. The WIZ have a chance to be competitive but they need to get healthy in a hurry, and by the way whats going on with thsse injuries what was going on in training camp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.Someone needs to be called on the carpet about that.

Posted by: DARGREGMAG@AOL.COM | February 21, 2008 11:19 PM | Report abuse

"This deal won't win them the East, but it might get Chicago back in the playoff picture.

Posted by: kalorama | February 21, 2008 11:11 PM "

If you're Chicago, you're better off trying to get back into the lottery.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 8:20 AM | Report abuse

As much as I enjoy the Pollin bashing from time to time, lest we forget that the reason he's not spending any more money is because we are up against the luxury tax cap? I could understand the negativity if he was just being cheap like he was in the past. That's just not the case. We got hit with a rash of injuries. ESPN reported on Dec 7 that the Wiz are $107,249 away from the threshold. Is there really anyone out there that will help us to win games while CB and GA are out? Probably not. By the time a guy figures out this offense well enough to make a significant difference (assuming someone out there has the skills to make a difference), our players will be back....and it's not like there are any defensive forces just sitting around or working in Kmart. Any player we would have added would have cost Abe a lot of dough yet added very little to this team. I'm with you on this one, Abe. It hurts short term but that's why you have 12 or 15 man rosters. Play the rookies heavy minutes if you have to, EJ. If you lose, you lose. We just have to make up ground when the ballers come back.

Posted by: mark | February 22, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

BTW, what's a window licker? And why haven't I had any verbal confrontations with DCMan88 lately? What the h3ll is going on?

Posted by: mark | February 22, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

The happiest people in the NBA right now are the Detroit Pistons over this Cavs trade. Larry Hughes is a thorn in Rip Hamilton's side, and has defended him better than anyone in the playoffs. Drew Gooden has also been a Pistons killer in the playoffs.

Now, Detroit will be fine because Hamilton will run circles around Wally World, and they can leave Ben open all they want.

Cleveland made a trade just for the sake of change here. I dont think this will really benefit them at all in the long run, and definitely makes them weaker against the Pistons in the playoffs. Maybe it will help them against Boston, but they just do not match up with the Pistons now.

Posted by: Roman | February 22, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Again, Abe proves he's cheap because there has been no activity with trying to work out guys who could help via 10 day contracts. Let me say this again, I'm not even talking about whether or not there are good candidates out there. What I am talking about is that there have been no efforts to find out for sure if there is anyone who can help this severely undermanned team. Namely, nobody has rolled into VC to be worked out.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Great trade for celveland now they have the Big men(zeke, big ben, varejo, and joe smith) to bang with anyone then they also have 4 solid shooters to put around lebron(szcerbiak, delonte, gibson and damon jones and then they also have pavlovich. I thought the cavs would be a tough out before the trade now with this Boston and Detroit need to be worried. Big Ben will only be better with someone like zeke and lebron next to him. Its goign to take so much attention away from him and szcerbiak will be open all day and delonte might have been the best addition in the trade. Great trade for the cavs.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 22, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

"The happiest people in the NBA right now are the Detroit Pistons over this Cavs trade. Larry Hughes is a thorn in Rip Hamilton's side, and has defended him better than anyone in the playoffs"


HAHHAHAHAHAH when is the last time larry hughes played a full series in the playoffs without getting hurt???? They beat Detroit without him last year thats one of the dumbest things ever posted. Larry hughes is an overpaid lazy bum who is always injured and drew gooden shows up once every 5 games. Great trade for the cavs.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 22, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Not a big fan of hollinger but I agree with him here...the cavs got so much better with this trade.

"This one works, big time. Answer me this: Would you rather have Larry Hughes (12.0 PER) or Wally Szczerbiak (16.0)? Shannon Brown (8.5) or Delonte West (10.1)? Donyell Marshall (8.5) or Ben Wallace (12.1)? Drew Gooden (12.8) or Joe Smith (17.4)? "

Here is the link to the whole article
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=TradeGrades-080221


Anyone who thinks the cavs have gotten worse has lost their minds or knows absolutely nothing about basketball.


Posted by: Anonymous | February 22, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Roman I couldn't disagree more they match up great with the pistons now......Detroit and the celtics should be scared. Detroit more than the celtics but both should be worried. Danny ferry for once actually made a good move.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 22, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Is the NBA calling quits after this year? What's with the intense push to win a title NOW? So many teams are trading for overpaid, aging players on their way out of the league...It seems their will be a big flip in power in the next season or two. Once all of these guys really do fall apart at the seams, there will be a big space open for the Wiz--if they can maintain as they are. I think the crazy trades made this season give EGs wait and see approach even more chance at success in the next two years. If we can resign Gil and 'Twan and keep the injury bug at bay, we should be in a great position to really dominate these aging teams.

Posted by: Lou | February 22, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

DC, do you know that we haven't looked for 10 day candidates?
Also, Wilks barely got off the bench when he was here. He played 43 minutes in the four games that he got into here. I'm not sure I understand how that helped the team besides not having Wes Unseld Jr practice. No way Abe should be expected to go over the luxury threshhold just to have a full practice squad. I clearly get the the frustration we all feel from seeing the stars get worn down from playing too many minutes but wouldn't increasing a guy like Pech's time be better than bringing a guy in off the street who doesn't even know the system? In the month of Feb, Pech has averaged 9 minutes a game. NINE MINUTES !! As shorthanded as we are, that's ridiculous.

Posted by: mark | February 22, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

....although I understand that defense is Pech shortcoming. Maybe we keep him off the floor for that reason. Even if that's the case, it still doesn't make sense for Songaila to get his minutes. It's not like Pech was a turnover machine or anything.

Posted by: mark | February 22, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

PER is all well and good, but you have Ben Wallace who hasn't provided the defense and rebounding he has previously and is clearly on the side.
Maybe playing with Z will help him and maybe getting out of Chicago will revitalize him, I don't know, but it is an awful big risk to take that contract, it is even worse than Hughes' deal.
Second Wally-World has been a clubhouse cancer in the past (and if you don't believe it ask KG) who will sulk and pout if he doesn't get enough shots. Oh yes and he is a saloon door on the defensive end as well.
Here's is the reason this is a deal that won't work. If they can't get back to the NBA Finals this season will LeBron look at the roster in a couple of years and see an aging Ben Wallace, Daniel Gibson and an aging Z and say "Sure sign me up for 6 more years here!" Or will he be casting his eyes towards the Nets who should be either moving to Brooklyn or about to (and the all the extra $$ LeBron will get for playing in N.Y. from his endorsements) or even the &!@#@&@# Knicks if somehow they have any cap room by then. I would say its the latter, but LeBron may prove me wrong.
And DCMan88 spending money for the sake of spending money or making deals for the sake of making deals is often a losing strategy. No deal is always better than a bad one.
What did the board think of the Gilbert trade that Bill Simmons proposed?

Posted by: George Templeton | February 22, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

We know Les BouleS have not brought anyone in to be worked out because Ivan and Michael have not reported it.

Also, I think Ivan said that after Jan 10, 10 day contracts do not count against the cap. I think a player can be offered 2 consecutive 10 day contracts before they have to be on the roster for the rest of the season.

In any regard, Coby Karl was doing well in the Lakers D league and assuming Les BouleS could have signed him or worked him out, he could have helped.

http://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker.com/default.aspx?s=nba-news-display&nid=A21407381203505005A

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

"And DCMan88 spending money for the sake of spending money or making deals for the sake of making deals is often a losing strategy. No deal is always better than a bad one.
What did the board think of the Gilbert trade that Bill Simmons proposed?

Posted by: George Templeton | February 22, 2008 10:46 AM "

George, the only money I suggested Les BouleS spend was maybe for a $250 ticket and $90 hotel room to bring someone in and work them out to see if they can help. Prove to the fans, and maybe even pretend to the fans, that this org cares about winning and will do the most it can do by exhausting all options, instead of running your current players to the ground.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

I see your point about the 10-day contracts, but the only problem with that is, if EJ isn't going to give those guys 5 or 6 mins. a game to give Daniels some rest, what's the point in bringing them in. And EJ won't start them when Daniels is out, what's the point?

Posted by: George Templeton | February 22, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

George what was the trade simmons proposed?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 22, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Also, I think Ivan said that after Jan 10, 10 day contracts do not count against the cap.
Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 10:51 AM

There, you are wrong. 10-day contracts DO count against the Salary Cap AND the Luxury Tax.

Posted by: Rook | February 22, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

In any regard, Coby Karl was doing well in the Lakers D league and assuming Les BouleS could have signed him or worked him out, he could have helped.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 10:51 AM


Coby Karl is under contract to the Los Angeles Lakers - and has been all year. Just because a player is sent to the d-League (read "developmental"), does NOT mean he is available for any other team to pick up.

The d-league is made up of non-contract players (trying to make an impression to get picked up), and players under contract (sent down to improve their games).

So the Wizards COULD NOT sign Coby Karl.

Posted by: Rook | February 22, 2008 11:23 AM | Report abuse

"I see your point about the 10-day contracts, but the only problem with that is, if EJ isn't going to give those guys 5 or 6 mins. a game to give Daniels some rest, what's the point in bringing them in. And EJ won't start them when Daniels is out, what's the point?

Posted by: George Templeton | February 22, 2008 10:55 AM "

Given that, what's the point in having a 12 man roster? Why shouldn't Abe just start having a 10 man roster on a permanent basis.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

"There, you are wrong. 10-day contracts DO count against the Salary Cap AND the Luxury Tax.

Posted by: Rook | February 22, 2008 11:18 AM "

So what was the hype around the much ballyhooed Jan 10 date?

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Valid points everyone. But as I said on the past post, 2 10 day contracts will not take the Wiz over the cap. It only counts if the Wiz sign them for the remaining of the season.

I have to disagree with the notion there is nobody out there now to help us. Wilks, if available, knows some of the offense. His last game he played really well and changed the tempo of the game with his quickness. He also had a nice "J".

He could spell an ailing AD and give the Wiz a "true" playmaker because he is not a "combo guard" like Mason and DS. We have no quickness at the 1. The Wiz need to use this year's #1 pick on grooming a point guard to spell GA and AD.

I like DCMans suggestion of Koby Carl. There was also a D Leaguer who the Bobcats signed (can not remember his name) who turned out to be a nice ball player last year. Some research is needed here folks by the Wiz scouting department that all.

All the Wiz need from one or two of these 10 contract pickups is a REAL PROTYPE POINTGUARD (Wilks) and a big 2 guard who can slid over to the 3 that has a nice jump shot. That is what we need right now. And then EJ has to then be smart enough to use them in the dang game.....!!!

There are plenty of those types of guys playing in the D League who the Wiz could use for two 10 day contracts. That will buy them time for GA, CB, DS, and AD to heal. EJ can then run a real practice.

I still say Abe is being cheap if he can not sign them to two 10 day contracts and then let them go. I am not understanding his logic for the life of me??

Posted by: Bullets Fever #1 | February 22, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

"There, you are wrong. 10-day contracts DO count against the Salary Cap AND the Luxury Tax.

Posted by: Rook | February 22, 2008 11:18 AM "

So what was the hype around the much ballyhooed Jan 10 date?

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 11:34 AM

January 10th is the first day that Teams are allowed to sign players to 10-day contracts.

Posted by: Rook | February 22, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse

like DCMans suggestion of Koby Carl.

Posted by: Bullets Fever #1 | February 22, 2008 11:35 AM


You cannot sign a player that is already under contract to another team!

Posted by: Rook | February 22, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

88, I still don't get how a 10 day guy would help us. Even if EJ did play him for 8-10 minutes a game, it doesn't buy us much. With the injuries we have, the only thing that will help us is time. We just have to wait it out and get better. No one off the streets is gonna make us any better. I remember signing Leon Wood and he came in and gave us a lift back in the day but I think those days are long gone. Just about anyone that can play and make a difference IS playing.

Posted by: mark | February 22, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

"January 10th is the first day that Teams are allowed to sign players to 10-day contracts.

Posted by: Rook | February 22, 2008 11:36 AM "

Yes, it was much anticipated by Ivan too, but nothing to report to date. I think Les BouleS are slightly under the luxury tax threshold, and could sign someone if they were actually proactive.

BTW, LOL, another one of my posts makes the Post!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

PER is not useless, but like all statistics requires a bit of interpretation. For instance, I like the Leon Powe story, but do not believe his 36th place PER makes him more valuable than Jason Kidd's 99th place PER.

Alternatively, would you lean on PER to choose between Caron and Manu? PER would have you take Manu (he's your #6 PER, btw). Both guys have a lot of game, but who you choose would have to depend on what you already have. Ben and Wally are not getting better or younger and they cost a bundle. That's my gripe, not that I really care about the Cavs.

DCMan, I wouldn't want Abe to spend more because I enjoy your harangue. Abe's been taking care of Abe for 80 years. Not waiting for him to change.

Posted by: Pauly B. | February 22, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

You cannot sign a player that is already under contract to another team!

Posted by: Rook | February 22, 2008 11:38 AM

Rook - I already knew Carl was under contract. I used that example because there are guys playing in the D league right now with Carl's skill, but do not have his name recognition that can help a NBA team if given a fair chance, thats all. M. Almond is lighting it up in the D League and I would love to get him, but he is under contract with the Jazz. I already know the folks who are under contract and who is not in the D League.

My point I was trying to make is the Wiz are depleated beyond depleated. How can you get better when you can not even practice.

Everyone keeps talking about how can a 10 day contract guy really help us in a game instead of looking at how they can help EJ in PRACTICE. That is the point I am trying to make here.

EJ can not even run a practice!!! This has been going on for the last 2 months. We are now well beyond the Jan 10th date, so what is the excuse now???

There are players in the D League that can help us right now, but nobody wants to give them a chance because they are in the D League. There are nice ball players down there who just got caught up in a numbers game on the teams they were trying out for thats all. All they need is a little shot to show what they got.

Please tell me what do we have to lose???? Or should we stick with running 3 on 3 or 4 on 4 practices or no practices at all until CB, GA get back. Hip flexors are no joke and so are knees. I would not be holding my breath thinking Gil and CB are coming back anytime soon with those types of injuries.

Posted by: Bullets Fever #1 | February 22, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

To summarize it all:
1. We have a cheap owner.
2. GM's hands are tied.
3. A coach who has limited man power plus limited coaching skill.
4. A team who is battered and injured from top to bottom.

And with the Bulls and Hawks making the final push. They might be looking for an early summer.

Posted by: Dave | February 22, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

I see your point about practice, BF1. That's why I mentioned that fact that seeing Unseld Jr. forced to practice with the team is pretty sad. I still don't see how anyone in the org will be able to justify paying the tax to Abe. Paying that tax so we can have enough players for a full 5 on 5 practice for a couple months isn't gonna fly in my opinion. I know I'd veto it if I was paying a lot of bucks for a team payroll and I was expecting injured guys back in the near future.
Anothe issue I see is that every time a player gets injured, it's a 'game or two' only. Well, it never seems to be a game or two that's missed. It always turns into 10 games. Pech, Caron, and Ad were all out for far longer than the training staff originally thought.

Posted by: mark | February 22, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

"Paying that tax so we can have enough players for a full 5 on 5 practice for a couple months isn't gonna fly in my opinion. I know I'd veto it if I was paying a lot of bucks for a team payroll and I was expecting injured guys back in the near future".

Posted by: mark | February 22, 2008 12:09 PM

Mark. What's up fellow BTH supporter. We agree on BTH but it looks like we disagree here. First, they would not be paying the luxary tax if they do not sign them for the remaining part of the season. Those 2 10 day contracts are prorated, so I am pretty darn sure those calculations will not take Abe over the cap.

As for expecting the injured players back in the near future, how long are you willing to have to wait? Again, hip flexors and knees are nothing to joke about. Those timetables can not be calculated. So, how long do you go with 8 active players (when 2 of those 8 are are hurt bad too) before you go to plan B?

Again, if Abe is willing to still own the team, that means he has to be ready for emergencies, such as these that will cost him extra money. Any good business owner knows there will be days when something happens and they will have to shell out extra money they did not plan on spending.

If Abe is no longer able to handle the financial aspects of fielding a competitive team and thinking of the fans, he needs to sell the team and give it to somebody (I.E.TED LENOIS)who is willing to spend the money to get the team to the next level.

Again, Abe is a good dude and I am not mad at him as a person, but as a owner he needs to give the team up...!!!!!! This is not fair to EG, EJ, the players and us the fans if he is going to continue to penny pinch on the organization.......

Posted by: Bullets Fever #1 | February 22, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Lol,thank god DCMan isnt running the team. Sun Ming Ming would be the center, and he would violate NBA's tampering policies by trying to sign Coby Karl who has been under contract with the Lakers all year. You think Abe Pollin is bad, just imagine if DCMan ran the show, it would be a nightmare.

Posted by: Roman | February 22, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Don't forget, Abe got about 50 mil from DC to get a new HD jumbotron and to spiff up the lux boxes so he can charge more. Unfortunately, the product on the court is very bad now, so it's like break even now, but on the backs of the fans b/c those paying for the tickets to the games are getting taxed so that DC can recover the 50 mil. The $8 beers are padding his wallet too, but too bad for the fans, they'd get more stimulation from a $6 beer at Good Guys rather than a Wizards game.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

"Lol,thank god DCMan isnt running the team. Sun Ming Ming would be the center, and he would violate NBA's tampering policies by trying to sign Coby Karl who has been under contract with the Lakers all year. You think Abe Pollin is bad, just imagine if DCMan ran the show, it would be a nightmare.

Posted by: Roman | February 22, 2008 12:26 PM "

Thank god you're not the GM b/c you'd have no ideas for discussion and would be too busy with your thumb up your @ss.

I'm willing to bet that Sun Ming Ming on the roster is more than what DSong is giving now with his 4mil payout this season.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Someone posted this recently:

1. Dallas Mavericks $93,628,178
2. New York Knicks $88,877,161
3. Denver Nuggets $79,956,015
4. Cleveland Cavaliers $76,342,271
5. Boston Celtics $74,626,104
6. Portland Trail Blazers $73,808,251
7. Houston Rockets $73,427,433
8. Miami Heat $73,049,874
9. Los Angeles Lakers $71,753,284
10. Philadelphia 76ers $71,417,379
11. Phoenix Suns $71,033,603
12. San Antonio Spurs $70,279,967
13. Minnesota Timberwolves $68,151,989
14. New Jersey Nets $67,722,711
15. Washington Wizards $67,550,468
16. Indiana Pacers $66,945,767
17. Golden State Warriors $66,200,917
18. Detroit Pistons $65,661,092
19. Los Angeles Clippers $64,481,478
20. Chicago Bulls $63,884,736
21. New Orleans Hornets $63,742,210
22. Seattle SuperSonics $63,246,298
23. Sacramento Kings $63,197,615
24. Milwaukee Bucks $62,599,267
25. Toronto Raptors $62,312,141
26. Utah Jazz $59,060,636
27. Orlando Magic $58,819,313
28. Atlanta Hawks $54,521,875
29. Charlotte Bobcats $52,711,896
30. Memphis Grizzlies $52,105,356

If those numbers are correct (and I don't think they are - but I think they are close) , then the Luxury Tax payment for the 17 teams under the cap (and one share for the League) would be over $5.7 Million dollars.

Everyone here keeps saying that the Wizards are "VERY CLOSE" to the Luxury Tax threshhold. Seems to me that going over the Tax for a scrub player and giving up the $5.7 Million dollars just so EJ can sit him on the bench would be just plain stupid.

Anyone know how much under the Tax the Wizards are currently? I assume that a 10-day contract for a minimum salary player would be $500K divided by the number of days in the season, times 10.... Anyone know how a 10-day contract is calculated? Anyone done the math?

Posted by: Rook | February 22, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

I dont have ideas? How the hell do you know that? Just because I dont post everything here that I think of, like you do, doesnt mean I dont have "ideas."

Anyway, if your ideas are to add players who cant even cut it in the ABA, can barely get up and down the court, and think you can just sign someone off another team, then you have lost your mind.

Your ego is absurd, you dont admit when your opinions are obviously flawed, etc. Just cut that crap out DCMan.

Posted by: Roman | February 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Rook. Is that 5.7 million divided by the number of teams that go over, or is this the "hit" for each team?

I think this is something Ivan or Mike should do a post on next. Showing the calculations and how signing a player to two 10 contracts may or may not affect their cap hit.

Posted by: Bullets Fever #1 | February 22, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Bullets Fever #1 - As I understand it, and by no means am I an 'expert'; Each team that is over the Luxury Tax at the end of the year pays a dollar for dollar 'Tax'.

For instance, the Dallas Mavericks are $25.7 Million over the Luxury Tax threshhold. They will pay $25.7 Million into the Tax pool.

The Tax pool (in my projection is around $104 Million, based on the previous poster's list) is then divided into equal shares and distributed to the teams that stayed under the Tax threshhold, with one share going to the League.

So. 13 teams over the Tax threshhold by $104 Million dollars total. $104 Million divided by 18 shares (17 teams + one share for the League) = $5.7 Million distributed to each team under the 'Tax'.

Posted by: Rook | February 22, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Is there anything prohibiting the Wizards from bringing in players to practice against without adding them to the roster? Couldn't Massenburg practice with the team? He's been working out with Etan.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 22, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

"I dont have ideas? How the hell do you know that? Just because I dont post everything here that I think of, like you do, doesnt mean I dont have "ideas."

Anyway, if your ideas are to add players who cant even cut it in the ABA, can barely get up and down the court, and think you can just sign someone off another team, then you have lost your mind.

Your ego is absurd, you dont admit when your opinions are obviously flawed, etc. Just cut that crap out DCMan.

Posted by: Roman | February 22, 2008 12:37 PM "

If you had any original ideas of your own, you'd probably suggest bringing back Manute Bol, Labradford Smith, and Muggsy Bogues. Wait, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you would have an idea or clue at all.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

"

Is there anything prohibiting the Wizards from bringing in players to practice against without adding them to the roster? Couldn't Massenburg practice with the team? He's been working out with Etan.

Posted by: | February 22, 2008 12:50 PM "

The only prohibiting thing is Abe's tight wallet.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Here is the Bill Simmons deal:

TRADE 6B: The Clippers trade Sam Cassell, Corey Maggette, Aaron Williams, their 2008 No. 1 (unprotected) and the rights to Minnesota's No. 1 in 2008 or 2009 to Washington for Gilbert Arenas, Etan Thomas and Washington's 2008 No. 1 (lottery-protected).

Why Washington does it: For four completely logical reasons. First, the Wizards don't have to spend max money on Gilbert when it's unclear if he's a franchise guy for anything other than a fantasy team. Second, when you factor in Gilbert's new contract with the $13 million they'd save by dumping Etan Thomas, they'd save something like $44 million in 2009 and 2010 combined because Cassell, Williams and Maggette are all expiring deals. (Heading into this summer after this deal, when you include Antwan Jamison's impending free agency, the Wizards would have a paltry $38 million committed to their 2008-09 payroll. ... That's right, more than enough money to sign a name free agent to replace Gilbert.) Third, those are two fantastic No. 1s they're getting back -- a lottery pick in 2008 and a probable high lottery pick from Minnesota -- and they have an All-Star to replace Arenas on and off the court (Caron Butler). And fourth, as crazy as this sounds, they'd actually improve their playoff chances this season by getting Cassell and Maggette since it's doubtful that Arenas comes back, anyway.

I guess it all depends on what you think of Gilbert. My buddy House (a Wiz fan) argues that Gilbert is far too popular in D.C. to ever get traded, but he uttered a terse "no comment" for my question, "Yeah, that's fine and all, but would you have fun playing with him?"

Why the Clips do it: Because of the improbable resurgence of Kobe and the Lakers, the poor Clips have been blown off the map locally. They're an afterthought. They don't matter. In other words, it's just like every other season. If they don't swing for the fences with the Cassell/Maggette contracts and their picks and try to acquire a star player, they will continue not to matter. (Put it this way: As a season-ticket holder, I'm not coming back next year unless they make a big move. I can't stomach another lousy season. And I'm not alone.) This trade gives them a foundation of Arenas, Elton Brand, Chris Kaman, Al Thornton and Shaun Livingston that's legitimately exciting on paper (at least until you remember that three of those guys suffered season-ending injuries), as well as an exciting franchise guy (and a local product) who would generate a ton of interest in Los Angeles on and off the court. Let's face it -- Gilbert was born to play in Hollywood. Literally. It's the perfect place for him.

Posted by: George Templeton | February 22, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I have never been on the trade Gilbert bandwagon and I don't feel like it is time for the Wizards to give up on this season (which they would be doing if they made this deal). This deal would've been intriguing if it had come up as a possibility b4 the trade deadline yesterday.

Posted by: George Templeton | February 22, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Gilby would be the ugly red headed step sister in LA. Kobe rules LA.

Gilby is popular in DC, but so was Juwan Howard, so how did that turn out when Juwan turned into a greedy dude and signed a contract to leave town? Gilby is walking down that path, with his threats and demands.

Given all that, I wouldn't want Aaron Williams and an old Sam Cassell. Any trade would require the name Chris Kaman being mentioned.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 22, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

1st - I know that the trade deadline has already past, but for the sake of argument:

DC Man88 - I think you missed the whole point of the advantage for Washington.

IF Washington were to scrap this season, the only advantage to trading Arenas would be to start over. Adding Kaman's 5-year contract to the deal defeats the purpose of rebuilding. Besides, Washington has a dirth of bigs already.

Trade Arenas + Thomas FOR Cassell's expiring contract + Aaron Williams' expiring contract + Corey Maggette + two 1st Round Picks (one of which is a Lottery Pick) - the advantage for Washington is that they could rebuild fairly quickly. They would be rid of Thomas' contract ... retain Jamison (if he wanted to stay) ... and could go after a 2nd tier point guard and a bench scorer ... and add some significant young talent in the draft (or package picks to move up, and have 2 lottery picks)..

I think the advantages for the Clippers were already well reported.

Since the trade deadline has come and gone, it is pretty apparent that Ernie has put an exclamation point on his previous statements that he "likes this team" and wants to see what they can do when healthy.

Posted by: Rook | February 22, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

O wins games D wins championships

Posted by: Chris | February 22, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

In the NBA, you can never have too many bigs, and as EG has said once, having "too many bigs" is a good problem to have.

Also, I seriously doubt if ET has any trade value. He recently had a setback, and honestly speaking, he should rest about 2 more years before he's fully healed from his surgery. A big man cannot play in the NBA if he can't hack contact, and ET plays physical. I haven't even started talking about ET's 40 mil contract yet (6.4 mil this season).

Also, don't put too much credence on EG's company line. Do you expect him to say anything else after having an uneventful trade deadline? EG also liked LH, and said he would do everything to keep him. Then he lowballed LH. Then he tried to recover with a matching contract. Too late.

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