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Wiz and Knicks update

The word is that Caron Butler is out for tonight's game against the Knicks. He went through shootaround this morning but apparently was still feeling some stiffness and soreness and the decision was made to hold him out at least one more game. The next game is Friday night at Cleveland (where the Wiz got demolished on their last visit) so maybe two more days will help. Andray Blatche starts for Butler.

By Ivan Carter  |  February 19, 2008; 5:31 PM ET
 
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Comments

Just something I noticed, but Butler's missed a lot of games in each of his 3 seasons with the Bullets. I don't have the exact figures but I believe he's never played more than 70 games with us (in his first year, when he was backing up Arvis... ha!!), even missing 20+ games last year

Posted by: CN | February 19, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse

This is disturbing. He's had lots of time to rest. This is starting to look like a season-long thing.

Posted by: Keithinator | February 19, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

What is so serious about Caron sitting this one out? Totally understandable they want him to be at full strength for the Cavs....and would rather him have a few more days rest.

But I hope they are not overlooking the Knicks...who seem to have our number.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 19, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Good. He needs to get healthy, not 80% healthy.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 19, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

I don't see this as any big deal. Injuries take time to heal. No need to jump the gun.

Posted by: kalorama | February 19, 2008 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Caron's probably being held out because of that pending trade back to the Lakers...

Posted by: Anonymous | February 19, 2008 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Caron should be commended for waiting until he's feeling good to come back and play. He carried the team for most of the first halfr, not only on the offensive end, but the defensive end also.

He knows that the season/playoffs is more important than some stupid exhibition game, which is why he sat out the all star game. Hooray for Caron.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 7:10 PM | Report abuse

i agree its good to rest him until he's fully healthy. but as a wizards fan, i can't ignore that there is a trend emerging (3 instances = a trend, right?) of guys coming back from injuries too early, only to reinjure themselves and wind up missing more time than they would have otherwise. gilbert's injury at the beginning of this year is the most glaring example, but hardly the only one. when caron first hurt his hip a month or so ago, he sat one or two games and then came back, reinjured it in his first game back, and has been out ever since. you can't blame the players for wanting to be out there, especially with the team as shorthanded as it is, but whether it's coach jordan or the team doctor or ernie grunfeld, someone has to be the cautious one and not let guys back until they're really 100%.

Posted by: oy | February 19, 2008 7:25 PM | Report abuse

i agree its good to rest him until he's fully healthy. but as a wizards fan, i can't ignore that there is a trend emerging (3 instances = a trend, right?) of guys coming back from injuries too early, only to reinjure themselves and wind up missing more time than they would have otherwise. gilbert's injury at the beginning of this year is the most glaring example, but hardly the only one. when caron first hurt his hip a month or so ago, he sat one or two games and then came back, reinjured it in his first game back, and has been out ever since. you can't blame the players for wanting to be out there, especially with the team as shorthanded as it is, but whether it's coach jordan or the team doctor or ernie grunfeld, someone has to be the cautious one and not let guys back until they're really 100%.

Posted by: oy | February 19, 2008 7:25 PM | Report abuse

tough juice, eh? yeah right.

Posted by: dan | February 19, 2008 7:25 PM | Report abuse

i agree its good to rest him until he's fully healthy. but as a wizards fan, i can't ignore that there is a trend emerging (3 instances = a trend, right?) of guys coming back from injuries too early, only to reinjure themselves and wind up missing more time than they would have otherwise. gilbert's injury at the beginning of this year is the most glaring example, but hardly the only one. when caron first hurt his hip a month or so ago, he sat one or two games and then came back, reinjured it in his first game back, and has been out ever since. and AD has been playing hurt more or less all season, though that's a much more defensible decision than gilbert starting on opening night or caron coming back so quick from his initial injury. you can't blame the players for wanting to be out there, especially with the team as shorthanded as it is, but whether it's coach jordan or the team doctor or ernie grunfeld, someone has to be the cautious one and not let guys back until they're really 100%.

Posted by: oy | February 19, 2008 7:30 PM | Report abuse

wow what a major computer clusterf**k... sorry about the repeated posts. i even reloaded before posting that last time and none of the previous ones were up there. oy.

Posted by: oy | February 19, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Songaila making an impact early...
missed shot, foul...

Posted by: JSchon | February 19, 2008 7:34 PM | Report abuse

With regard to Caron getting hurt, what can you expect from a guy who leaves it all on the court, both sides of the court? What else do you expect when a guy averages 40.3 minutes a game, the highest he's ever averaged, for this undermanned team not known for defense?

As much as Caron has been out, let's not forget that AD has been out also. AD is averaging almost 10 minutes more/game than last season. Les BouleS are getting their money's worth from the salary dollars spent on these two guys.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 7:49 PM | Report abuse

B. Musberger just said he has heard rumor of a Butler trade to the Lakers! He said this during the Indians/Purdue game.

Posted by: jimmy | February 19, 2008 7:59 PM | Report abuse

I just heard through the four letter network that the Wizards and Lakers are talking about Caron Butler.

Posted by: Tony | February 19, 2008 8:19 PM | Report abuse

I saw that too but figured Musberger is just echoing the ESPN speculation. But who know, maybe there's something happening. Can't imagine who the Lakers would have that the Wiz would want, except for Kobe and Bynum, which ain't gonna happen.

Posted by: Prazak | February 19, 2008 8:23 PM | Report abuse

This rumor started with Sam Smith of the Chitown Trib. He said the Lakers don't feel that once Bynum returns Odom is the type of 3 who can defend the wing and shoot with range. He said they were looking for a "traditional small foward. Perhaps Caron Butler."

Posted by: LH | February 19, 2008 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Nick Young with the hot hand, 5 of 6! Oh you Wizards always teasing me with potential, gonna show me something in the post season this year?

Posted by: Conor | February 19, 2008 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Chili's Essential Ingredients? Are you kidding?

The graphic was insane.

Posted by: JSchon | February 19, 2008 9:03 PM | Report abuse

Thats the play you draw up? 19 seconds left and thats the play you draw up?

AD holds the ball until 6 seconds are left, then start the play?

What did you think, NY wasnt going to play defense?

Posted by: JSchon | February 19, 2008 9:26 PM | Report abuse

I'm with you JSchon, they should bring Collins back on staff and have him only draw up plays during timeouts...that play was horrible!

Posted by: Conor | February 19, 2008 9:30 PM | Report abuse

LOL!

Why in the world would Les BouleS want Lamar Odom when they have Caron and/or AB?

A lil bit offense, some rebounding, and no defense.

Then again, it is Les BouleS.

BTW, LO makes 13.2 mil this year, while Caron makes 8.4 mil.

Def. "not possible." - Buckhantz!

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

So much to be angry about.
Boils down to EJ. NY didnt sniff the minutes he deserved tonight.
AD had 2 crucial TO's.
EJ drew up a play anyone of us couldve drawn up at the end of regulation.

Posted by: JSchon | February 19, 2008 9:37 PM | Report abuse

An already ugly month is getting a lot uglier.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 19, 2008 9:41 PM | Report abuse

LOL!!!

"Grunfeld Satisfied With Roster
The NBA trade deadline is Thursday, and team president Ernie Grunfeld said he expects to be approached by teams interested in making deals. But Grunfeld indicated he's satisfied with the roster he has assembled.

"We've got people coming back [from injury] and even without Gilbert, we are a competitive ball club," he said. "We beat Boston back-to-back and Dallas a few days later. So I'm looking forward to getting all our pieces together again." -- The Washington Times"

Believe it if you will!

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 9:41 PM | Report abuse

"....even without Gilbert, we are a competitive ball club," he said."

What a telling statement by EG!!!

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

fits. absolute fits.

Posted by: thickman | February 19, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

They lost this one not long after the opening tip. A home game after the All-Star break against the team that starts one of the worst defensive front courts in the NBA is not the time to start firing up long jumpers.

For anyone who still thinks they're better off without Gilbert, this game was exhibit A why they're not.

Posted by: kalorama | February 19, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

Even as bad as the East is, the Wiz may end up struggling to make the playoffs this year.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 19, 2008 9:57 PM | Report abuse

"For anyone who still thinks they're better off without Gilbert, this game was exhibit A why they're not.

Posted by: kalorama | February 19, 2008 09:53 PM "

LOL! This cannot be Kalorama.

Even still, notice that Caron was not in the game, so you're really reaching when you're saying this loss someone means Gilby's presence would have made a difference even without Caron.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 10:05 PM | Report abuse

It goes without saying that Gilbert would make a difference in any game they play without him. And it's pretty obvious Gilbert would have made a difference in this one. They'd probably have won the game in regulation, even with out Caron, if they'd had someone on the floor who could break down the Knicks guards off the dribble and get to the basket against their slow-footed, nonshotblocking bigs.

Posted by: kalorama | February 19, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

GA or CB being in the game wouldve made a difference Herb. That is no stretch.

Posted by: JSchon | February 19, 2008 10:16 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure any team that's missing their leader/heart and soul of the team, and a shoot first point guard (total contract value of about $20 mil for this season) would be hard pressed to win against any of the sorry teams, especially in the east.

Don't forget, Les Knicks only had 9 guys too, with both SFrancis gone and Starbury out injured, so that makes this loss even worse. Notice Les Knicks had about 9 more assists, and are 21 games below .500.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Hey, what's up people? Have not posted in awhile and I have only been catching every other game lately. But, I have to say tonight was simply embarrassing. Somehow we turn Crawford and Robinson into all-stars every time we play NY. Sorry, but this was a EJ loss! First, zone should have been an option. The small quick guards rip us every damn time. Second, the game I saw had the first unit tying or losing the game and the second unit pushing the lead to 5, 7, 9 pts!

Is there a law that says your first unit HAS to finish the game when they struggled all night? The second unit would have finished off the game and we would have won.

Finally, that was a horrible play call for the last shot. No wonder we could not execute when Daniels did not even move until 6 secs were left. You start that play with 8/9 secs especially when I know Daniels was not supposed to take the shot. What was that???? Gilbert Arenas where are you?

Posted by: Rob P | February 19, 2008 10:20 PM | Report abuse

"Finally, that was a horrible play call for the last shot. No wonder we could not execute when Daniels did not even move until 6 secs were left. You start that play with 8/9 secs especially when I know Daniels was not supposed to take the shot. What was that???? Gilbert Arenas where are you?

Posted by: Rob P | February 19, 2008 10:20 PM "

Nothing new around these parts. Don't forget earlier this season when there was about 23 seconds on the clock and EJ called a timeout just to tell Gilby to run an isolation play where he milked the clock, took a fall-away 3 pointer in the corner, and then got it blocked by VC. Then, to rub salt on woulds, EJ said he would call that play every time.

Coach of the year? Not.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=271108017

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 10:29 PM | Report abuse

Where are all the assists Herb that GA wasnt dishing out...

AD 38 minutes, and 5 assists... I dont care about the rest of his line because I dont expect it to be close to GA, but he is a TRUE PG and is averaging fewer assist in GA's absence than GA did last year, or any year GA has played in his career aside from his rookie year.

Posted by: JSchon | February 19, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse

"Notice Les Knicks had about 9 more assists"

That's one of the benefits of a low post big man who often needs to be double-teamed when he catches the ball inside.

Posted by: kalorama | February 19, 2008 10:42 PM | Report abuse

JackShon is clearly a dumb@ss.

Maybe if Gilby played some D and acted like a point guard like AD, then he'd have less time to focus just on scoring.

Clearly, you don't understand basketball. Being a point guard is not just about racking up assists, but it's about being a floor general and running the team, not taking any and every shot whether your really open or not.

Go look at videos of Nash/DWilliams/JKidd/Chris Paul and compare then to Gilby "I've never seen a shot that's not possible" Arenas.

LOL!

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

"That's one of the benefits of a low post big man who often needs to be double-teamed when he catches the ball inside.

Posted by: kalorama | February 19, 2008 10:42 PM "

Unfortunately, we don't have one of those and EG seems content not to have one.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse

Ernie Grunfeld go out and do something eddie has been doing his part do something man god

Posted by: brandon | February 19, 2008 10:55 PM | Report abuse

Brandy, if only life were that simple, but it's not when you have an owner with tight purse strings:

"On a larger scale, Jordan wants to win now. Like any coach who signed a two-year extension with a team option for the third year last summer, the continuity line gets old.

"But I understand Mr. Pollin's standpoint," Jordan said. "We want to stay within a certain budget for the Washington Wizards. We're not going to be like four or five or six other teams that can do anything it takes to win. Those are decisions we made within the organization. It doesn't bother me. There are times when you say, 'How come we can't get this guy?' But then you say, 'These are the parameters the organization has set.' ""

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

For someone who likes to point out how many championships GA has won, you just compared him 4 players with a grand total of 0 rings.

Career Stats
SN 14ppg 8apg 3rpg 2.5tpg .485fgp
DW 15ppg 8apg 3rpg 3tpg .462fgp
JK 14ppg 9apg 7rpg 3tpg .401fpg
CP 18ppg 9apg 5rpg 2.5tpg .447fgp
GA 23ppg 6apg 4rpg 3tpg .421fgp

Combined rings = 0

Posted by: JSchon | February 19, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

I seriously have to question Eddie Jordan's offensive schemes. Even last year, when we were a top offensive team, most of the points were from isolation plays by Butler, Arenas, or Jamison. That's it.

Once in a while there is a few backdoor cuts, and a few nice kickouts. But, those don't really come that often for this team.

And the offensive plays after each and every timeout is atrocious.

Is Eddie Jordan and the Princeton Offense for real?

Or, am I just wrong on this?

Posted by: ten | February 19, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse

EJ and AD lost that game. AD had zero awareness defensively in the fourth quarter, and he turned the ball over a couple of times. AD's dumbest play: holding the ball with more than 30 seconds left and the Wizards up by one, rather than running through the offense and trying to get a quality shot off. And then EJ called that ridiculously stupid play at the end of the fourth. You know AD can't shoot, so why would you have him hold onto the ball that long and try to create. When AD is your point, you start running your offense with about 12 seconds left and try to get the ball in someone else's hands.

The whole team gave up in the overtime. Just ridiculous. I don't care how short staffed this team is, they lost to a sorry bunch of losers, and that's pretty sad. Losing games like this one, like the one to Philly and like the one to Golden State will come back to haunt them at the end of the year. I know Caron is thinking long term, but he's probably going to have to come back sooner, or the Wizards will be passed in no time by the Hawks. This is all so putrid.

Posted by: Colin | February 19, 2008 11:06 PM | Report abuse

I have about had it with this "franchise".
I am tired of coaches EJ that can not call a time out and make a difference. tell the suckers to make an extra pass, but no , when this team does not pass they will not win. That includes everyone, yes even Mason, Young Jamieson.
AD had a horrible 4th quarter, but to me it comes down to the coach, and EJ is frickin clueless.
That defense with the jumping out, and leaving lanes open for penetraion is abysmal.
And Songalia, would not get off of my bench, once again he can not run, jump or play defense. And please do not once again state that he sets picks, the team is 4 against 5 whenever he is in...wasted minutes, wasteful coach. dreadful!!!

Posted by: mricklen | February 19, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

The DCIdiot is so jealous of Gilbert. And how ridiculous is that? Keeps bringing up articles from ages ago...birthday parties...All Star, blah, blah, blah. Not to mention Gil has barely played this season so DCidiot has no idea how Gil will (or will not) play. He could now be a lights out defender and never shoot the ball.

If the Idiot were not so pathetic (probably has never palmed a basketball) it would be sad.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 19, 2008 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Oh forgive me, I guess Nash never took his team deep into the playoffs, and neither has Deron or JKidd. All those suckas are one and done playoff pretenders.

CPaul has no chance of any success in the playoffs this season either, especially with their sorry .706 winning percentage and #1 ranking in the super sorry Western Conference.

I think Nash's 2 MVP's were a fluke too, btw. He surely didn't deserve those. Also, JKidd's 99 career triple doubles are a fluke too. He's not really a good floor general and nobody in the NBA wants to play with him, especially not Lebron, nor does anyone want to play with Nash either b/c he's a ballhog.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 11:10 PM | Report abuse

does anybody no who we can pick up in the trade deadline that can help us

Posted by: brandon | February 19, 2008 11:13 PM | Report abuse

"The DCIdiot is so jealous of Gilbert. And how ridiculous is that? Keeps bringing up articles from ages ago...birthday parties...All Star, blah, blah, blah. Not to mention Gil has barely played this season so DCidiot has no idea how Gil will (or will not) play. He could now be a lights out defender and never shoot the ball.

If the Idiot were not so pathetic (probably has never palmed a basketball) it would be sad.

Posted by: | February 19, 2008 11:09 PM "

I'm sure this anonymous idiot (stinky ho Lisa) is the expert in palming.

Gilbert a lights out defender? Hmmm, not.

The last time Gilby tried to play some D (hanging out around the rim for a rebound), Gerald Wallace crashed into his knee. Even before that, someone dislocated his clavicle when Gilby tried to take a charge.

The only D Gilby will be playing is when Laura takes him to court and he has to hire a defender to defend him.

LOL!

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Brandy,

"Wilcox Wants Some Answers
Chris Wilcox | SuperSonics
Chris Wilcox appears to have hit a plateau and it's uncertain if Sonics GM Sam Presti considers him a cornerstone in the rebuilding project along with rookies Kevin Durant and Jeff Green.

Regardless of how the team feels, Wilcox wants some answers before entering into negotiations.

"Normally you would say that [the contract] and me being a starter and playing would be the main things you think about, but first I want to know what's going on with the team," Wilcox said. "Where's the team going to be and all of that before I make that decision.

"Right now I don't have a clue. David Stern said we're going, but there's so much stuff in the news where they're going to court, they want the team here and this person wants to buy the team back and all of this stuff. There's just been a lot of stuff going on. It's hard to think about it all." -- Seattle Times "

CW makes 6.5 mil/year.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 11:16 PM | Report abuse

thanks dc mann but can we make any moves because our gm and owner does not want to spend any money

Posted by: brandon | February 19, 2008 11:22 PM | Report abuse

No one really pays attention to DC Man88 anyways.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 19, 2008 11:23 PM | Report abuse

I can't stand it and I will NEVER understand our stategy at the end of quarters! I hate the way we have someone at the top of the key stand there and dribble down the clock, then at the last possible moment try some move and chuck up a long contested shot! Can anyone explain this?? Ivan???

We'd get away with it when Arenas would hit some amazing shot, but even then I hated the strategy of it. And seeing Daniels or Mason do it really drives me crazy! Especially when we are supposedly running the Princeton, which is a big joke! I get that you want to run down the clock and take the final shot, but you should be moving the ball while running the clock! Any college team knows to do it! You move the ball around, make the D react and move. At some point the D will overreact, or underreact, get out of position. Lo and behold you got a backdoor layup, or you got an open 10 foot jumper, or you got a cutter open for a slam, or a wide open 3. You move the ball around, make the D move side to side and work!!! Not stand there and dribble and run all the clock and leave no time to open anything up!

Why do they do that!!!!???

Posted by: Darnell | February 19, 2008 11:31 PM | Report abuse

"thanks dc mann but can we make any moves because our gm and owner does not want to spend any money

Posted by: brandon | February 19, 2008 11:22 PM "

Les BouleS are not a serious contender this season. I think EG is content to sit this out, based on all the injuries and the question mark with his FA's, and see who he can sign long term this offseason, and then build on that.

I think if EJ fizzles with Caron and Gilby's return, there should be talk of EJ being fired this offseason, and Ayers given the job. EG can't be satisfied with what he's seeing on the court right now, although EJ has done a decent job with what he has to work with. In the end, EJ is in a lose-lose position...tightwad owner, PG not with the program, uncertainty with the direction of the offense, a defensive coach hired by the GM, etc.

Anyone with any hopes of any type of success in the playoffs is really setting themselves up for disappointment. The only glimmer of hope is that the East is gawdawful this year.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 11:32 PM | Report abuse

Oh, let me add also: "poor in game substitution decisions with personnel and lack of development of young players, nevermind putting BTH into the doghouse when BTH clearly deserves to start."

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 11:34 PM | Report abuse

I'd love to spend the money but I don't control the purse strings, fellas.

Posted by: Ernie | February 19, 2008 11:35 PM | Report abuse

Ernie, I think you can get a better job somewhere else. Think out of the box my jewish brotha.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 19, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse

We got a roster spot available, we should use it on Nick Fazekas who just got waived. Even if we just D-league him, he's a guy who could be worth picking up for the future. It would be like picking up a free 2nd round pick.

Posted by: Nick Fazekas | February 19, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Ernie, is that you?

Why, oh why are we stuck with Etan Thomas' and Darius Songalia's HORRIBLE contracts??? :(

Antonio Daniels' contract is starting to look very bad as well.

Posted by: ten | February 19, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

I heard some of game on radio and only saw the stretch run and the overtime. But what I saw was putrid on the ball defense by the guards. Knicks are an athletic team that normally has no cohesion. Shame on us for losing to them.

But all of us first need to step back and realize that without Gil and Caron we are just too shorthanded. Nevertheless I don't see why Young was not in there down the stretch. He apparently had hot hand on a night when we needed his firepower. He couldn't have been any worse on defense than the veteran guards that Robinson and Crawford were consistently blowing past.

EJ continues to baffle me. He can be so wise at times and at other times do things that make no sense.

Reality is that when all our guns are back, if they stay healthy, and Gil has his head together, we can still make a run at this thing. Both EG and EJ sincerely believe this and so I don't expect any deals before the deadline. The irony of ironies is that Gil's greatest asset would be if he would come back with a commitment to so the quick guards that are giving us so many headaches.

Don't give up folks, It is only February and we are still in position to make postseason. It is not panic time.

Posted by: BmoreRev | February 20, 2008 12:02 AM | Report abuse

I don't think any excuses can be made about this loss. The knicks are 20 games below .500, whether Caron or Gilby are playing or not. Also, the Knicks are missing SFrancis and Starbury, the former having been bought out, and the latter being out injured. Even still, they only played 9 of their players.

It was just plain bad coaching and execution. EJ does not sap the max ability out of his players. It was just plain bad...no excuses.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 20, 2008 12:08 AM | Report abuse

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