Wiz at Warriors

Caron Butler and Antonio Daniels will be out once again for tonight's game against the Warriors. Butler said the hip is still a problem and he is not sure about his status for Wednesday's against the Clippers. He also hasn't made a decision one way or the other about his status for Sunday's all-star game but did say that his priority is getting his body right so he can go full speed once he does come back.

Daniels said his right ankle is already feeling much better and he plans on playing Wednesday night. The Warriors reported no injuries.

Andray Blatche makes his seventh start for Butler and Roger Mason Jr. gets the nod for Daniels though Eddie Jordan said that Mason has been bothered by a sore hamstring. I asked DeShawn Stevenson, who has a sore knee, whether he was going to play and he looked at me like I was crazy. He'll make his 219th straight start. Not getting that dude out of the lineup.

A personal note: Have to give the Redskins props for hiring St. Olaf College head coach Chris Meidt as an offensive assistant. Yours truly is proud St. Olaf football alum (Class of '97 baby). I was long gone before Coach Meidt showed up but II heard good things about the man and he did win a lot of games for the black and gold. I wish him well.

By Ivan Carter |  February 11, 2008; 9:58 PM ET
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During the summer I(under the name CurtisLee, I think) killed the re-signing of Deshawn by Grunfeld. I would like to say that I am a huge idiot and Deshawn has proved me wrong this whole year. The guy is a warrior. His numbers are a little down, but I honsetly think that is only because he is getting less open looks because of the injuries. Sorry I doubted.

Posted by: Dude | February 11, 2008 10:41 PM

So where are all the Juan Carlos Navarro supporters at? Probably the same clowns who think the team is better off without Gil.....

Posted by: Roman | February 11, 2008 11:16 PM

They're better off without AD and Caron. I bet they could trade both of them for Ron Artest.

Posted by: Jim | February 11, 2008 11:50 PM

espn box has gilbert playing is this true?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 12, 2008 12:15 AM

I was a Juan Carlos Navarro supporter who already has done a mea culpa to Stevenson and Grunfeld.

The first time I checked this game it was Wizards 57, Warriors 37 and I was dumbfounded. How did the Wizards build that lead?

Posted by: George Templeton | February 12, 2008 12:23 AM

i'm watching the bullets slowly give another game away. it's like a freeway down the middle of the bullet's defense. where the hell is the center to stop this nonsense! mason just got hammered when he tried it. i swear there been ten dunks on the bullets head and i've only been watching for a quarter and a half.

buy a center.

Posted by: steve | February 12, 2008 12:29 AM

young is playing ok, although he seems to be catching up on his sleep on the defensive end.

Posted by: steve | February 12, 2008 12:32 AM

fun game tonight... hope we can finish it out for a win!

Posted by: g | February 12, 2008 12:33 AM

woooo nick young nice lay-in... hehehe

Posted by: g | February 12, 2008 12:34 AM

Keep the faith !! This has been a fun game to watch. I am glad I don't have to get up early today !

Posted by: Section101 | February 12, 2008 12:37 AM

Did gilbert attempt a shot like ESPN box score says?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 12, 2008 12:42 AM

Is Tim Donaghy out there ref'ing the game? Cause it looks like a bit of favoritism in the 4th quarter...

Posted by: Anonymous | February 12, 2008 12:51 AM

Why the hell is Songalia in the game instead of Mason?

We need ball handlers in there!

Posted by: JSchon | February 12, 2008 12:51 AM

oh man this game is crazy. The refs are unbelievable!

Posted by: g | February 12, 2008 12:52 AM

I could use a drink. How do you continually give up as many offensive rebounds as this team does?

Posted by: George Templeton | February 12, 2008 12:52 AM

You knew GS was going to go small and try to force turnovers...

Why have Songalia dressed at that point let alone in the game.

Posted by: JSchon | February 12, 2008 12:53 AM

wait, sadly they aren't unbelievable... the NBA has a crisis of confidence.

I mean, I don't know if I can justify buying tickets to games if the reffing is as bad as this... what is the point?

Posted by: g | February 12, 2008 12:54 AM

No, seriously, why is the ball in Nick Young's hands late? That's the best they can do?

Posted by: Jim | February 12, 2008 12:56 AM

I don't care if the Wiz don't have their horses healthy, there's no excuse for not cleaning up after free throws and for not defensive rebounding. What happened to moving your feet on defense in the 4th quarter? They are still a long way away.

Posted by: Thickman | February 12, 2008 12:56 AM

Eddie and refs blew this game.

One of the few games that you needed to keep RM in the game.

You take him out for Songalia during crunch time when none of his skills are needed.

Posted by: JSchon | February 12, 2008 12:59 AM

Dam.................

Posted by: Section101 | February 12, 2008 12:59 AM

The season might have just gone down the drain with this defeat. This one is a real kick in the teeth. They have themselves to blame but the officiating in the 4th quarter was atrocious.

Posted by: George Templeton | February 12, 2008 1:00 AM

songalia just mishandled two easy rebounds. boy can't jump, shouldn't be in the nba.

warrior missed a free throw, the bullets too slow out of the gates and don't get the rebound, warrior hits a 3. losing now. no sense of urgency with these boys - even with less than a minute to go!

young throws up a wild shot with plenty of time on the clock. still can't spell pass.
seems to have no idea how to play basketball. good shot and nothing else.

stevenson doesn't protect the ball as he comes down with the rebound. stolen.

bunch of losers on the court tonight.

chenier credits the "great effort".

please.

Posted by: steve | February 12, 2008 1:00 AM

And that's the reason why I'm a Wizards fan. Wonder if a 10 day contract would have helped win us the game tonight?

Posted by: Larry | February 12, 2008 1:01 AM

our first round draft pick shooting guard needs a better +/-, even if i dont understand it completely. but who else's hands should we put it in? deshawn on one knee? jamison who works better in the flow of the game? he's a shooting guard drafted in the first round. he needs to learn sometime.

Posted by: CreditZard | February 12, 2008 1:05 AM

Should have slept early...

Posted by: Thickman | February 12, 2008 1:06 AM

Are we still talking 10 day contracts?
What evidence has EJ giving you that he would play someone who isnt even in the league?

He doesnt play reserves unless he has too... Having Mike Wilks in there tonight wouldnt have made Songalia any faster, athletic...

Our guard play was fine... we played their guard better than even... we didnt defend the paint and had the wrong people in the game late.

Posted by: JSchon | February 12, 2008 1:07 AM

what got me the most about tonight's game is how pathetic the Oakland fans made the phone booth look. They're down by 20 and the crowd is chanting DE-FENSE...

Posted by: jonesy | February 12, 2008 1:07 AM

Ivan, I know you're not blind. Please write about how ridiculous Eddie's coaching was tonight.

1. Gameplan for the 4th...multiple iso's for Nick Young. Sure, he made a couple of lucky shots, but he also chucked a few and refused to pass the ball.

2. Brendan Haywood is having another 20+10 tonight and he sits for the majority of the 4th, including all of crunch time. This is just inexcusable.

3. Eddie's constant love affair with Darius Songaila, the new Michael Ruffin. Roger Mason was having a career night and he put DSONG in for him.

I'm a diehard fan, but Eddie's coaching is just laughable. It is time the media bites the bullet and calls Eddie out for these glaring embarrassments.

Posted by: Hugh | February 12, 2008 1:28 AM

Come on Ivan. Don't be a sheep like the rest of the media in the area. They don't watch the games. Only us diehards know just how crappy of a coach Eddie is. Brendan was dominant for 3 quarters and led the team in plus/minus yet Songaila the bum played the majority of the 4th.

Posted by: Eddie Sucks | February 12, 2008 1:53 AM

And the Jordan bashing begins.

He took Haywood out of the game after the Warriors went small with Harrington at C and Haywood's refusal to go out and challenge him on the perimeter (for fear of Harrington driving past him) gave Harrington multiple open looks at jump shots. That's a smart strategy, until the guy starts hitting (which Harrington was down the stretch). At that point you have to put someone in who can challenge him on the outside and has a chance of keeping up if he drives. Haywood out, Blatche at C (not that it mattered).

Mason played all but 7 minutes of the game, so complaining about Songaila playing at his expense defies logic.

They lost because, when they had the lead and the game in hand, they got lulled into playing the Warriors' game, going one-on-one, taking quick shots, which the Warriors turned into breaks and points.

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 2:03 AM

Songaila replaced Wood and Mason at separate occasions in the fourth. Pulling Wood (regadless of who is in) in favor of giving DSONG crunch minutes is just absurd. Yes, the Wiz blew it at the end, but Eddie's poor coaching easily trumps that. Letting Nick Young chuck for the entire fourth? Showing no offensive schemes whatsoever? You're blind if you say this loss is all on the players. I thought Eddie was turning a corner with the Boston wins, but he continues to revert to old ways. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (considering the injuries) with some of these losses, but tonight crossed the line big time.

Posted by: Hugh | February 12, 2008 2:14 AM

Songaila left the game at the 10:15 mark of the 4th when Haywood came in. He remained on the bench until Mason went out at the 2-minute mark of the 4th. Songaila went back to the bench and Mason was back in less than a minute later. That substitution was clearly why they lost the game. How could I have been so blind?

Posted by: Kalorama | February 12, 2008 2:27 AM

Songaila did come back briefly at about the 5:30 mark of the 4th, but that was to replace Blatch, not Haywood or Mason.

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 2:34 AM

Actually (checking the tape) that 5:30 appearance for Songaila was the 3rd quarter. He played the first two minutes of the 4th and that 1:00 in relief of Mason in the 4th and that was it.

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 2:40 AM

I wonder how much the referees are getting from the syndicate. Shame on them and their mothers.

Posted by: rgz | February 12, 2008 2:46 AM

I had tivo on, can confirm, DS played first minutes of 4th, came on for a few more and was sporadic off the bench. Mason played as many minutes as he had this season.

Blaming this loss on one sub issue / EJ is interesting. I don't think you can credit him for the 23 point lead or the loss. This team is depleted. This game like a few others this season needed a player to 'take it over' Nick was forcing shots and trying to make it happen, but he just doesn't read the D as well as a vet.

RMason played a great game, (so did Deshawn) but they all looked ragged by the end of the fourth.

Still, it was an exciting game. I would say the refs have as much to do with the wiz loss as anyone else. Some of the no calls were wild. You can tell Blatche struggles with that, it's like he knows he is going to get called on the other end so he becomes hesitant and he doesn't think the refs will call fouls inside when he goes there... what is a noob to do?

NBA refs gamed us last night. They deserve the win more than goldenstate... and the fans... what were they cheering? A comeback by the refs... buncha IT guys if you ask me.

Posted by: ~ | February 12, 2008 4:58 AM

ugh - what a let down, i really thought they were gonna take this one, DSong's line sucked again - almost 20 mins, 4 boards, 2 points, 1 of 5 shooting - and Pech sat the entire game, what's up with that? The team is obviously tired, tail end of a road trip, 3 vets sitting. DS going 5 for 17, 3 of 8 from outside - he's ragged, hurting and putting up bad shots. Don't want to bash EJ but he's a better gym than game-time coach, draw up a play every now and then please! Props to RM, 13 for 20 and 5 for 7 from outside, he is benefitting from the minutes more than anyone, this will help in the post season. So, on to the Clippers - a must-win for dignity if nothing else, how long can AJ keep up these minutes and production rate? What a player!

Posted by: Conor | February 12, 2008 6:08 AM

Songaila...20 minutes, 4 rebounds, 2 points, 20% shooting.
Pech...DNP. What's up with this?

I watched the beginning of this game and it appeared (AGAIN) that we had a team with no answer for a big man. Rather than try to run with this team and outscore them, perhaps a slower game where we pound it inside to AJ and BTH would have benefitted us. Do we ever take advantage of size matchups? Teams do it against us. Without our stars, it will be difficult to run with teams like GS and Phoenix.

Posted by: mark | February 12, 2008 7:34 AM

ooops. Sorry Conor. i hadn't read your post but we were obviously thinking the same thing.

Posted by: mark | February 12, 2008 7:39 AM

Tough loss... but we are vastly undermanned and refs will tend to favor home teams (except us in the Phone Booth of course)... still hate to see a winnable game against a good team slip away.

Hopefully the Wiz will beat up on the Clips, then come home and rest up over the All-Star break (I would probably prefer to see Caron sit it out and be that much more healed for the second half of the season, though that is tough to ask of a young player in only his second go as an All-Star).

I will be home to visit at last next week, and back in the family seats in Section 101 for the Knicks and Bobcats... my first two games of the year and hopefully ones that will get us back to .500 and on the road to the playoffs.

Posted by: khrabb | February 12, 2008 7:46 AM

As much as i want to bash EJ, the truth is that Red Auerbach couldn't win consistently with the team we are putting on the floor. Until we get our players back, every game is a probable loss. This team resembles a lot of the old Bullets teams that hovered around .500 because we had one borderline all star surrounded by average players. (the Malone years..Jeff/Moses) Sure, I'd like to see consistent subbing but EJ is going with experience hoping for the best. Rookies never get calls and we've seen a lot of games where the officiating has made a difference. I'm trying to figure out why EJ plays who he plays and this is all I can come up with. The only thing we can do is bite the bullet and wait.
The best approach now is to play Pech and the young guys to get experience. What we're doing now is losing with veterans while some guys are sitting who could be getting better. If AB gets into foul trouble, let him foul out. A tentative AB is still better than Songaila. The one thing we should not do is panic and rush Cb and Ad and eventually GA into action. We're still close to .500 and if we can get healthy after the break, we should be ok. BTW, CB should limit his PT and practice time with the all stars and get some rest.

Posted by: mark | February 12, 2008 8:10 AM

Jeeze. Stayed up watching this game and AUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

You live by the three, you die by the three. I don't understand why they didn't drive to the basket more towards the end. And what the heck is up with Songolia? He could not even buy a bucket right under the rim. What happened to his shooting touch?!!? I now cringe when he takes a shot because he misses more than he hits. They should have been all over Stephen Jackson because he was the one who put the nail in their coffin. Where was the defense at the end of the game? I will admit the refs don't give my Wiz no respect but in the end this is one game they could have and should have won. They have got to learn to protect the ball.

I am a die hard Wiz fan and I feel for my boys but at this point I am not sure if they are going to win another game before any of the injured guys get back. Right now, there is no one to close out the game. They are just depleted. I worry sometimes that Jamison is going to go down with an injury as much as he is playing. Well, maybe we can savage this Rookie Road Tour with a win over the Clippers.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 12, 2008 8:29 AM

Can't believe you guys don't realize how much of an atrocity it is that Haywood sat for the majority of the 4th.

Posted by: Hugh | February 12, 2008 8:37 AM

I have defended EJ throughout the entire season. The words Coach of the Year was typed here. He has to have better planning last night in the 4th.

Posted by: JSchon | February 12, 2008 8:46 AM

Easy on the EJ and DSong bashing people.

The team collectively played a great game. There were a few letdowns in the 4th quarter but keep in mind we had three of our best players out of the game last night! Not to mention the Donaghy principle. I hate the NBA refs. Ivan, do you see the refs horrible calls? Can you write about the lack of calls the Wiz get on the road?

With Caron, Antonio, and Gilbert playing in the game last night we run away with a 30 pt. win.

Posted by: The AntiDCMan | February 12, 2008 8:54 AM

To piggyback on Hugh's comments, with all the injuries, Haywood is the team's second best active player, maybe third best if you consider Stevenson the second best. Why would you sit him in the 4th? Even if GS went small, don't you want your best players on the floor?

EJ just had an opportunity to go to his beloved smallball again, and he again paid the price.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 12, 2008 8:59 AM

The truth is the Wizards don't get any respect from the league, media and most especially the refs. The team is partly to blame. If you win against a top notch team and then lose to a lottery the next game you'll not get any special attention on that. Plus aside from Gilbert (which some of the people here wants to trade), there are really nobody in the team that is marketable.

With regards to the game last night. I believe that EJ should look at his team and see what is their strenght and utilize them instead of trying to match up with opponents every game.

Tough loss. Once they miss the playoffs they will look at this game and the one in Philly as the games that should have put them in.

Posted by: Dave, | February 12, 2008 9:15 AM

Ouch, that was a tough lost! Knew GS would make a run at the end but that offensive rebound and 3pt shoot by Jackson killed us.

Hats off to Mason and Stevenson for their performance last night. Without Gil and Caron, they played just good enough to hang in the game but have no answer at the end. Very similar situation to the end of last season and the playoff games.

The all star break can't get here soon enough.

One more thing - the bozo who questioned why Mason is even in the NBA is an idiot.

Posted by: Wizzz | February 12, 2008 9:35 AM

Did not see the game last night. Fell asleep around 10:45 p.m. only to wakeup and see DS taking a long j that missed around 1:00 a.m.

From what I am reading on the posts, it sounds like EJ went to "I'll match what the other team has out on the floor, other then MAKING the other them match me with what I have on the floor" approach again.

This is how we lost that Sixers game. If you notice when EJ get leads (most of the time Haywood is in that lineup that got the lead), EJ takes that as a chance to go with his "small ball" lineup. Small ball is supposed to mean having your quickest 5 on the floor. That does not mean having Songalia and AJ at the 5 and the 4. If EJ wants to run a "true smallball lineup" he should have the following:

1/ - Wilks/Taylor/or another ultra quick 13 man point guard

2/ - Mason

3/ - NYoung

4/ - DMac

5/ - AB

Now this is a true "smallball" lineup. This is your most athletic lineup (like the one the Sixers came out with) that can scrap, full court press, and play primeter defense along with switching against the pick and roll game teams like to employ against us.

As I have said before, EJ is a very good coach; but he is not that good at calling rotations. Some kind of way he finds a way to always put the wrong combo in the 4th quarter of games. I watched him lose way to many games in the 4th because of his rotation calls.

Now, from what most of you are saying Haywood was toasting them, but he did not get into the game in the 4th quarter again. Am I surprised, heck no. EJ has been doing that since the 6th game of the season gradually. I will never understand what EJ's problem is with Haywood, so I have stopped trying to figure it out.

As for Songalia, his game looked a whole lot better last year. Something just does not look right with that dude right now. I would not call him Ruffin by now means, but I too often question why EJ gives him the amount of minutes he does during games.

As for the Wiz not resigning a point guard, such as Wilks, to a couple of 10 day contracts is totally mind blowing. These guys are clearly running on empty, and they are also probably not able to run any kind of practices.

Would some of the upper tier teams be operating like this if they had the injuries we had, especially in the backcourt at the point? How bad does Abe want to win, or save money? I have to question that......??????

Posted by: Bullets Fever #1 | February 12, 2008 9:36 AM

This team will make the playoffs, just barely last night was gut wrenching you can't let people outhustle you(Andray!!!)you can't throw up three's (DESHAWN!!!!) or circus shots hoping to draw a foul on the road at crunch time you gotta play smart and coach that way EJ. EJ Darius is going to get you fired go to Abe and make EG find you some help NOW!!!!!!!!! BEFORE THE SEASON SLIPS AWAY.

Posted by: DARGREGMAG@AOL.COM | February 12, 2008 9:41 AM

A quote on espn.com "Brendan Haywood was largely unstoppable in the first half, but the center scored just two of his 20 points in the second half."

Posted by: Dave, | February 12, 2008 10:02 AM

Absolutely attrocious that Songalia ever plays. What can he do? Shooting 20 footers is not something useful in the nba. He can't rebound, he can't play defense, he can barely move. There is nothing he does on the court that should get him minutes over anyone on the roster. He can't even be a scrappy big man anymore because he picks up fouls at an alarming rate. Total waste of space at this point. D-mac/Blatche/Pech should take every one of his minutes. I cringe when he comes into the game and he hasn't proved me wrong once/ Ugh, Eddie and his scrappy veterans ...

Posted by: Joe | February 12, 2008 10:10 AM

Hugh/anon,
I stopped talking about how BTH was being misused because it started to seem like I was just b*tching every game.
****START B*TCHING*****
I agree wholeheartedly that BTH is our second best player right now and we should adjust our game to fit our strengths. The dude should be getting 25 shots a game right now and should be playing 40 minutes a game. That's the point of having veterans...to lean on them when necessary. If we establish an inside presence, all of those jumpers that RM and DS are taking now will be uncontested. I'm still of the opinion that BTH is one of the top centers in the game and is being underutilized.
I firmly believe that if he'd been on another team, he'd be an all star by now. The improvement that he made over the past year could have been made 2 years ago if we had committed to teaching and believing in the guy. If I were him, I'd be asking for an out at the end of this season. If we can't find shots for the guy now with all of these injuries, it'll never happen. ***END B*TCHING***

Posted by: mark | February 12, 2008 10:22 AM

You live by the three, you die by the three. I don't understand why they didn't drive to the basket more towards the end.

Posted by: | February 12, 2008 08:29 AM


You must not have watched the same game I did. Three consecutive possessions, late in the 4th quarter, ended with Wizards (Stevenson, Young, and Jamison) being hammered in the lane with NO call. No wonder they didn't want to "drive to the basket" after that!!!

By the way, during that same stretch, the referees called ticky-tack fouls on the Wizards.

Posted by: Rook | February 12, 2008 10:40 AM

Brings up the point of Arenas.

When you have a superstar on your team, you get the calls - even on the road. I guarantee that if it were Arenas on those three possessions in the 4th, the Wizards would have gotten the call.

Posted by: Rook | February 12, 2008 10:43 AM

For all the defensive sins that kalorama gave as the rational for taking Haywood out. Haywood left the game when Wizards were leading by 8 points (109-101), that is about the same difference at the end of 3rd quarter (9 pts). So EJ addressed the "deficiency" that caused the Wizards to loose 1 pt lead and allowed Warriors to make a 12-0 run? Somehow kalorama's analysis rarely backups by numbers.

Posted by: Sagaliba | February 12, 2008 10:47 AM

Songalia and Stevenson are supposed to be playing hurt, take that into consideration in your judgement.
I agree, more plays into Haywood, he should be taking more shots.
Also where is or what has happened to Pecherov?
Otherwise, I wrote this West Coast swing off when Butler and Daniels went down; any playing time for the bench is a plus, the Wiz will have their chances in March if Butler, Arenas, Haywood and Jamison are healthy.

Posted by: myshkin | February 12, 2008 10:49 AM

Mark - Amen to that! I'm just confuse on why BH is still averaging around 25-30 mins/game when he can go 35 and score 20+ pts.

I don't know why some people here don't get that.

Posted by: Fortune Teller | February 12, 2008 10:53 AM

I can see why you might have written off this western swing, however how does playing AJ 40+ minutes a game increase our chances of having a healthy roster of starters post all-star break?

Posted by: Conor | February 12, 2008 10:54 AM

"Somehow kalorama's analysis rarely backups by numbers."

I didn't make an analysis. I made an observation. And, as usual, your slavish devotion to numbers obscures much more meaningful realities. But really, who gives a crap? Not I.

Moving on ...

Anyone who thought, based on an 18 pt halftime lead, that the Wiz were going to blow the Warriors away in their own building hasn't seen G.S. play under Nellie. No lead is safe against the Warriors, esp. at home. What they did against the Wizards is just what they do. Depleted and banged up as they were, they didn't have the horses to stay out in front when the Warriors (inevitably) came charging back.

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 11:46 AM

Lots of funny stuff, but I think mark wins with Haywood would be an all-star.

Look, being a Haywood fan is great... but don't get too clouded here. I think Haywood has been an important part of this team but by no means has he been all-star caliber. And there is no indication that he could be. He is a good player, but he has held himself back. He has tended to disappear for large stretches of the season, wand not had a lot of will to fight. His attitude issues have (in the past) been a problem for the whole team. Now I am happy to leave it there, in the past. He seems to have turned a new leaf, and I like him. I've always rooted for him too. But let's be sensible... OK never mind, this board is past that.

But for real, this is the losing streak many of us expected for a while, and our teams hustle and overachieving for most of the season insulated us. Just like it did last night. In the end you have to have you big time players to win in the NBA. Let's hope this team doesn't sustain any more injuries before we can start getting players back. That would be the best thing we can do.

Posted by: g | February 12, 2008 12:31 PM

The one potential bright spot in all of this is that at least this season the Wizards annual injury-related losing streak is taking place in the middle of the season instead of the end, so there's still hope that when they get everybody healthy that there will still be time to make up some ground.

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 12:36 PM

kalorama,

We all watch games, we all have observations, and we see things differently. That's all fine. The problem is, you think you are correct and others are wrong, even though your "observation" often contradict with the cold fact that is not affected by your or my personal bias.

Here is the cold fact, Warriors went on a 12-0 run after Haywood was out at the end of 4th. Your observation must have gone to sleep during this period.

Posted by: Sagaliba | February 12, 2008 12:38 PM

Seriously, you need to pull the stick out, Sag. Every criticism of Haywood's play is not personally directed at you (unless you're Brendan Haywood, of course).

"The problem is, you think you are correct and others are wrong"

Which makes me different from you how, exactly?

"the cold fact that is not affected by your or my personal bias."

That's a gem. Everything you write is affected by your bias for the primacy of stats and your devotion to Haywood. Glass houses and stones, buddy...

As for the rest, you're refuting an argument I never made. Someone wondered why Haywood was taken out. I said why. I never said it was the right move (in fact, I specifically noted that his replacement, Blatche, had no more success). I made a basic observation: Jordan took Haywood out because with the Warriors upping the tempo he was a bad defensive matchup for Harrington. And he was.

But if you want to make it all about numbers, why don't you direct some of your mighty wrath at everyone blaming Songaila's 4th quarter play for the loss despite the fact that he only played 3+ minutes in the 4th quarter and the fact that when he went out at the beginning of the fourth the Wizards were up by 7 (and he only played 45 seconds of the 4th after that)?

Of course you won't do that because it would disrupt the neat little fortress of statistics you've built around yourself and it would fly in the face that Haywood is almighty and anyone who dares usurp his minutes must suffer your wrath.

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 1:03 PM

Oh, and since we're talking "cold facts" ... the cold fact is that Harrington didn't score another point after Haywood left the game.

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 1:13 PM

There you again Kal... Tell me how you walk on water?

Songalia, might've only played 3 minutes in the fourth...

How many possessions can there be in 3 minutes?

Its what he did and didnt do in those 3 minutes that count, not how many minutes he played. Plenty of mistakes can be done in a frantic paced 3 minutes in the 4th quarter on the road against a fast team with athletes.

I can recall 3 missed rebounds that he couldnt coral because he cant jump. I can out jump him in a jump ball situation. He caused a turnover on his own team after an important defensive rebound.

And lets not get into how much of a debacle he is on man on man defense against smaller faster players.

Its not Songalia's fault, he is limited in what he can do. Its EJ's fault for not putting the most athletic ball handling players into the game during the frenetic 4th quarter.

Im not going to get into whether or not BH shouldve been in the game or not, I'm not sure he was the difference or not...

all I know is that in the few minutes Songalia was in the game in the 4th, he stunk on both sides of the ball. EJ figured it out too late after putting RM back into the game after 1 minute of watching Darius defecate the bed.

Posted by: JSchon | February 12, 2008 1:55 PM

There you again Kal... Tell me how you walk on water?

Songalia, might've only played 3 minutes in the fourth...

How many possessions can there be in 3 minutes?

Its what he did and didnt do in those 3 minutes that count, not how many minutes he played. Plenty of mistakes can be done in a frantic paced 3 minutes in the 4th quarter on the road against a fast team with athletes.

I can recall 3 missed rebounds that he couldnt coral because he cant jump. I can out jump him in a jump ball situation. He caused a turnover on his own team after an important defensive rebound.

And lets not get into how much of a debacle he is on man on man defense against smaller faster players.

Its not Songalia's fault, he is limited in what he can do. Its EJ's fault for not putting the most athletic ball handling players into the game during the frenetic 4th quarter.

Im not going to get into whether or not BH shouldve been in the game or not, I'm not sure he was the difference or not...

all I know is that in the few minutes Songalia was in the game in the 4th, he stunk on both sides of the ball. EJ figured it out too late after putting RM back into the game after 1 minute of watching Darius look like a D-Leaguer.

Posted by: JSchon | February 12, 2008 1:56 PM

Oh, and since we're talking "cold facts" ... the cold fact is that Harrington didn't score another point after Haywood left the game.

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 01:13 PM

So you are telling me EJ jeopardized the whole offensive flow and low post defensive pressence to stop a dude who is a 10th man at best on any NBA team, who happend to be hot for a "minute"? Do you take out your hot "5" because the other team's "5" was shooting lucky "j's"???? Don't understand that train of thinking...

The odds were Harrington was going to start missing regardless, because he does not have game like that anyway. So taking Haywood out did not "cease" Harrington's scoring, the law of averages did.

The bottom line is EJ still does not always call good rotations in the 4th quarter. Again, his combinations lost the Sixers game and it lost this GS game. In both of those games he had the leads with a traditional lineup (i.e. Haywood or AB at the 5) but he chose to go to his "slow smallball" lineup (Songalia and AJ), and what happened next??????

The fact is EJ still does not totally trust Haywood and his playing time, or lack thereof, reflects that every game in the 4th quarter. Could you please tell me what you think about his rotations overall "truthfully" even if it means you have to show you disagree with him on some things?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 12, 2008 2:11 PM

Oh, and since we're talking "cold facts" ... the cold fact is that Harrington didn't score another point after Haywood left the game.

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 01:13 PM

So you are telling me EJ jeopardized the whole offensive flow and low post defensive pressence to stop a dude who is a 10th man at best on any NBA team, who happend to be hot for a "minute"? Do you take out your hot "5" because the other team's "5" was shooting lucky "j's"???? Don't understand that train of thinking...

The odds were Harrington was going to start missing regardless, because he does not have game like that anyway. So taking Haywood out did not "cease" Harrington's scoring, the law of averages did.

The bottom line is EJ still does not always call good rotations in the 4th quarter. Again, his combinations lost the Sixers game and it lost this GS game. In both of those games he had the leads with a traditional lineup (i.e. Haywood or AB at the 5) but he chose to go to his "slow smallball" lineup (Songalia and AJ), and what happened next??????

The fact is EJ still does not totally trust Haywood and his playing time, or lack thereof, reflects that every game in the 4th quarter. Could you please tell me what you think about his rotations overall "truthfully" even if it means you have to show you disagree with him on some things?

Posted by: Bullets Fever #1 | February 12, 2008 2:13 PM

"Its EJ's fault for not putting the most athletic ball handling players into the game during the frenetic 4th quarter."

Which is, of course, exactly why he took Haywood out and put Blatche at C. But don't let facts get in the way of your blindingly biased rants.

"Tell me how you walk on water?"

Easy. I just wait for you to piss out yet another anti-Jordan screed and step right over it.

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 2:39 PM

That's a gem. Everything you write is affected by your bias for the primacy of stats and your devotion to Haywood. Glass houses and stones, buddy...

Posted by: kalorama
-----------------------------------------
Buddy,

Let's make one thing clear, I watched games, just as you do if not more. My opinion is not "based" on stats, it is based on my observation. Watching the same games, I often puzzled by why your observation is so much different from mine and others. So I checked out some stats, and guess what? My observations are often backed up by numbers while yours is just some selective memory, and some strange selective criteria, such as whether or not Harrington scored. Who cares if Harrington didn't score another point? The reason Wizards lost is because Warriors made a 12-0 run!

In case you didn't know, the way to win basketball games is by *numbers*. If my team scores more points than your team, my team wins, not by some stupid absolutely baseless observations of yours!

Posted by: Sagaliba | February 12, 2008 2:48 PM

Again, for the stat addicts who live and die by the numbers:

When the 4th started, the Wiz were up 9. When Songaila left after the first two minutes, they were up 7. The lead was cut to three with Songaila on the bench and Haywood in for most of that time.

Yeah, Darius was crippling them out there.

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 2:50 PM

"The reason Wizards lost is because Warriors made a 12-0 run!"

That's the first reasonable thing you've said in this entire thread. Of course, it is undercut by your apparently unshakable belief that Jordan taking Haywood out is the only reason they made that run. If you watched the game you should know that the real problem was that they took too many quick bad shots that resulted in long rebounds and run-outs by the Warriors leading to easy scores and foul shots.

"In case you didn't know, the way to win basketball games is by *numbers*."

Further proof of your apparent inability to comprehend that the game is played by actual people and not walking stats in uniforms.

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 2:57 PM

"The lead was cut to three with Songaila on the bench and Haywood in for most of that time."

CORRECTION: I meant to say "Blatche in for most of that time."

Posted by: kalorama | February 12, 2008 2:59 PM

In case you didn't know, the way to win basketball games is by *numbers*. If my team scores more points than your team, my team wins, not by some stupid absolutely baseless observations of yours!

Posted by: Sagaliba

Further proof of your apparent inability to comprehend that the game is played by actual people and not walking stats in uniforms.

Posted by: kalorama
------------------------------------------

Amazing, now kalorama is even questioning my statement that the basketball game is determined by the number of points each team scored!

I can imagine that had kalorama been in NBA rule committee, he would have done away with scores and just had judges on the side line give out their "observations" like in the slam dunk competitions. Heck, Wizards would have won the game last night then, because they had stopped Harrington from scoring!

Posted by: Sagaliba | February 12, 2008 3:26 PM

"Can't believe you guys don't realize how much of an atrocity it is that Haywood sat for the majority of the 4th."

Don't say everyone. :)

Wait until Etan comes back then you're really gonna be upset. Looks like smallball is starting to rear it's ugly head again in Washington.

They played hard last night, just too many injuries right now. Kinda hard to be "hard" on them at the moment but they are dropping a lot of games here. :(

I don't think AD will be right until he gets those spurs out of his ankle. Stevenson's injury looks more severe then anyone is saying. Who knows about Caron?

Come back soon Gil, the team needs you.

-Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | February 12, 2008 3:28 PM

Again, this is my first time questioning the rotation ever by EJ. EVER.

I have said numerous times that he has done an amazing job with the roster and he should be applauded. I even said he should be mentioned as a COY candidate.

Last night he screwed up. He has admitted screwing up before, unlike you. You for some reason think someone died and made you Professor Basketball.

Sorry Kalorama, you're just as dumb as the rest of us.

Posted by: JSchon | February 12, 2008 3:30 PM

G,
You gotta look at the rest of the field in the East to understand what I mean about all star for BTH. Besides Dwight Howard, what centers are there that are more productive given the minutes that BTH has been given? Pao is gone. Bosh and Sheed are listed as centers because there are non other candidates besides Howard. You have to believe that if given 40 minutes a game on a team where there weren't 3 other all stars, BTH would be able to get 15-20 and 10 with a couple blocks.
I admit....I'm a BTH fan. (Just don't call me an athletic supporter).

Posted by: mark | February 12, 2008 3:31 PM

Mistakes Kalorama, dont necessarily translate into points. The fact that you cant pull down a rebound thats in your hands means that your team doesnt get to take more time off of the clock or have another shot at scoring or taking away another possession from your opponent.

It doesnt matter that the Wizards were up 9 then 7 when Songalia was in then out.

What does matter is that he failures meant we didnt have at least 3 second opportunities to A) Score and B) take more time off of the clock.

Logic, however, is not in your make-up.

Posted by: JSchon | February 12, 2008 3:39 PM

JSchon,
You hit the nail on the head. We are ALL just a bunch of guys (and gals) who watch the games and make observations. I've been offended by Kal's attitude before, too but now I just take it for what it is. He seems to think no one knows anything about ball but him at times. We all can't be right or wrong all of the time but when a bunch of us are seeing the same thing, there must be some merit to it. I've stayed out of this argument because I didn't stay up and watch the whole game but 9-11 and 6-8 over the last two games is no fluke. When you have a man hitting shots like that, he oughtta be in there for 40+ minutes unless his man is outscoring him.
For the record, I was also touting EJ as a coach of the year candidate early. I have also been an outspoken critic of his rotations for at least a couple years. It's easy for a guy to stick 3 all stars out there and win games without having to do much thinking. The good coaches are the ones who can scrap together rotations and game plans to win an occasional game when you're outmanned. EJ is one of the former. He looks great with great players out there but below average otherwise. Nothing personal, though. I think there are only a couple coaches in the league who'd be able to win a few with the team we're presently fielding.

Posted by: mark | February 12, 2008 3:41 PM

bad refs. bad play down the stretch. whatever though..its the rooks.

only thing i would have liked to see is jameson with the ball at the end of the game. he took one big shot (and missed) late, but he should have taken more of them, instead of NY. i know jameson works "in the flow of the game", but when you're down men, you go to the best player on the floor.

also...jameson was the guy dropping 35+ in the playoffs after gil and caron went out. always go to your best player.

Posted by: andy | February 12, 2008 3:59 PM

I hope our lottery pick is a good one! To many holes in the ship....glug, glug, glug....ahhhhhhhhhhh

Posted by: Anonymous | February 12, 2008 4:25 PM

People are bashing EJ and Songaila but it was the reckless play of Stevenson that lost that game last night. He should have stayed on the bench. Every botched play in the last 2 minutes had something to do with him. Trying to break the press by dribbling between two guys without protecting the ball?! Atrocious.

Posted by: wisc ave | February 12, 2008 4:53 PM

...which goes back to not having a PG on the roster.

Posted by: mark | February 12, 2008 5:44 PM

I agree that Haywood has played well this year and looks particularly good in the east.

But I don't agree that stats always extrapolate out as a linear relationship.

For example a player that scores 9 points a night in 12 minutes might only score 15 points in 30 minutes. The point is there are a lot of factors and amount of playing time is one of them. Too many variables to say one way or the other...

I personally think that Haywood tends to be less effective in the second half of games. I say tends. And I say personally because I haven't studied the issue in a methodical fashion.

Why is that? I think that it might have to do with a few factors. NBA games tend to pick up pace as the game goes on. A typical game might see 2 thirds of the scoring in the second half. I think Haywood is a much more effective player in a slower paced game. I'm not saying he is slow, but I do think that he doesn't run (up front) on a lot of breaks. (He has shown more hustle this year)

Also, as a game goes on Defenses get more 'broken down'. Haywood brings a lot of defense to the court, but as a game moves into it's late stages and the tempo increases it also limits Haywood's ability to effect the other teams offense. Not his fault, just the nature of the game and the other players on the court.

He is a big guy and it takes a lot more effort for him to run the court than AJ or DS or AD or Gil... It is a rare center who can keep that pace up. As much as I like BTH I'm not convinced our game (as a whole) should rotate around his abilities.

I promise I don't have any reason to care about this other than being a fan of the team. I'm not promoting or detracting BTH, just trying to give you a calm look at my perspective.

Do I think BTH is a true all-star? No. I just don't, not yet.

Do I think he could make the All-star team? Maybe, in the east... in a bad year?

Does that make him a bad player? No, I think he can be great for us. Just my perspective.

Frankly though i think the all-star game is a waste. A loser's paradise... Vince Carter goes all the time. Doesn't mean anything to me.

Posted by: g | February 12, 2008 8:21 PM

Here's a recap of the 2nd half with respect to how Haywood was managed. Please read it carefully and hopefully somebody can pass it on to Eddie Jordan.

The Wizards are up 72-55 at halftime. Everybody understands that it's a bit of a fluke and the Wizards are in for a tough second half.

Golden State starts off the third quarter with a furious rally and quickly cuts the lead to 10 at the 9:45 mark of the 3rd. The score is 72-62.

The Wizards regroup and fight off the rally. The lead remains between 10 and 14 points for the next 5 minutes. Haywood leaves the game at the 5:03 mark with the Wizards up 84-72 . He had 2 points and 3 rebounds in the quarter to give him 20 points and 8 rebounds for the game in 25 minutes of action. (I've got no problem with him getting a rest at this point. It's a fast paced game.)

After Haywood leaves, the lead stays roughly the same for the the next 3 minutes, and then Golden State goes on another run. They score on 6 consecutive possession at the end of the 3rd and the start of the 4th to cut the lead to 7. Haywood comes back in at the 10:15 mark and the lead is cut to 5 on that same possession, 97-92.

Once Haywood gets back in, the Wizards start getting some stops. Golden State scores once more (for their 8th consecutive scoring possession) but Washington stops them on their next 6 consecutive possessions. The Wizard build the lead back up to 11 at the 6:56 mark, 105-94.

At the 4:50 mark, the lead is still 8, 109-101. Haywood has 2 more rebounds and a bunch of altered shots in the quarter and has now posted a 20-10 double double. EJ pulls Haywood out of the game.

This is inexplicable! The pace had slowed down because guys were getting to the free throw line. EJ had also just called a timeout where guys were getting even more rest. Haywood couldn't have been that tired after just 5 minutes of action. This wasn't something you only see with 20/20 hindsight. This was simple common sense. Haywood was the difference on defense. It was inexcusable to pull him at this time.

Once Haywood was out, Golden State scored on the next 5 consecutive possessions to cut the lead to 2 at 113-111. The teams trade misses for a minute until the Wizards call a time out with 1:06 to go. The Wizards are still up 2. EJ still doesn't put Haywood back into the game. Golden State gets 3 key offensive rebounds in the last minute of the game and score on second-chances to win 120-117. Ultimately, Golden State went on a 19-8 run in the last 4:50 with Haywood out.

From the 9:00 mark in the 3rd through the rest of the game, the Wizards were +4 in the 9 minutes Haywood was on the floor. They were -16 in the 12 minutes he sat.

Posted by: nate33 | February 12, 2008 8:38 PM

"Trying to break the press by dribbling between two guys without protecting the ball?! Atrocious."

Yeah, he shouldn't be allowed to dribble because he really can't. He's horrible when pressed.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | February 12, 2008 9:33 PM

nate33,

Great analysis. That's what some of us have been saying for two seasons now. Haywood's a defensive force. The numbers and the evidence of our eyes confirm it. I think he's being phased out again.

Why? Because Eddie hates him. Consider: he doesn't like to play rookies as a general rule. He's been forced to a lot this year because of injuries, but normally he shies away from him. That's why his starters typically play very heavy minutes.

Except Haywood, who averages 27 minutes per game. Deshawn's the next one, at 31 per. Why are his minutes so limited? Must be his effectiveness, right? Wrong. His +/- is outstanding, at +8.3. His Hollinger PER is 18.58, second-best among Eastern Conference centers. Kal may say "they're just numbers", but when they consistently this good, it just might be because the player in question is very effective.

I'm completely, totally convinced that Jordan sits Brendan because he doesn't like him -- simple as that. Never has, never will. Why else would he keep him shackled to the bench, when all available evidence points to him being a good player?

Posted by: Keithinator | February 12, 2008 10:09 PM

I agree Keithinator. There is no other explanation. Eddie Jordan let's his personal feelings about Haywood cloud his judgement. He did it all last season too. Remember the playoffs against Cleveland when he wouldn't play Haywood even though Haywood owns Ilgauskas. Ilgauskas himself wondered to the press why Haywood wasn't playing.

There is no reason whatsoever why Haywood isn't averaging 32-34 minutes a game right now. He has been playing out of his mind all season. On a per-minute basis, he is a top 7 center in the league and the second or third best center in the East (Howard 1st, Ilgauskas is arguably 2nd). Honestly, he should have been considered for the All Star Game. He has been that effective this year.

Posted by: nate33 | February 12, 2008 11:50 PM

You can tell of BTH's dedication to his game by his increase in FT % by over 20%.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?statsId=3532

The shooting coach on Les BouleS deserves a raise.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 13, 2008 3:29 AM

yeah i need to give props to Hopla. A bunch of guys are shooting their arses off. Even Brendan has a little jumper going these days.

Posted by: mark | February 13, 2008 8:47 AM

A Personal Appeal to Ivan and Mike:

If you do read what we post then you might probably know by now what 99% of the people here wants and need to be change/improve. (I'm not sure why that single person don't accept the reality or maybe his/her total admiration to coach EJ made his eyes blurred).

Ivan/Mike - Please do relay our sentiment to coach EJ and needs to improve on his 1. rotation, 2. play to our strength and last but certainly not the least play BH heavy minutes IF he's playing a good game (don't limit his PT in the 4th quarter).

Posted by: Fortune Teller | February 13, 2008 9:32 AM

Just so everyone knows, Michael and Ivan will have a Q&A at 2pm today. Might be a perfect time hit them with questions for Eddie re: BTH and playing time.

Posted by: The AntiDCMan | February 13, 2008 9:55 AM

This ship is not sinking. We are VERY undermanned at this point. Let's see what happens in April. I would rather have all this mess now and have everyone ready to go in April. Remember last year? We set the world on fire and then everyone got hurt at playoff time. This is not the Western conference where one game moves you up and down the standings or out of the playoffs all together.

Posted by: Section101 | February 13, 2008 10:09 AM

Everyone, please stop asking Ivan and Michael to relay comments to the coach. That is not their job. Their job is to report and analyze. You can ask them to do a story on the issues you raise, but don't ask them to whisper things in Eddie's ear.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 13, 2008 10:19 AM

Well they are the closes person we got to reaching EJ. Anon - what are you going to do, email him?

Yes, I agree the ship is not sinking BUT we need to plug the holes before it starts to. In case you don't notice the games separting between a playoff team and a lottery is just 3 games!

Posted by: Fortune Teller | February 13, 2008 10:44 AM

Looks like Jarrett Jack is available for trade. He's like a skinnier Gilby, but can probably do some things at the 1, and he costs 1.2 mil. Plus, he's a local product and would be insurance in case Gilby walks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?statsId=3948

http://blog.oregonlive.com/johncanzano/2008/02/nba_trade_deadline_will_the_bl.html

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 13, 2008 11:34 AM

"Amazing, now kalorama is even questioning my statement that the basketball game is determined by the number of points each team scored!"

Which is, of course, not what I said. Clearly your willful misinterpretation of facts is a systemic problem for you and not something confined simply to your reading of the statlines.

You said "the way to win basketball games is by *numbers*." An utterly nonsensical statement on its face, that doesn't even make linguisitcal sense.

The way to win basketball games is by superior effort, planning, execution (which, if done properly, result in points being scored). But, despite what you seem to have an irrational investment in believing, effort, planning, and execution cannot be quantified based on an after-the-fact statistical analysis. They're human traits that ebb and flow and change. You can't chart them on a graph or plug them into a computer. Which is why you can't blithely assume that a player who, after 6 years off under-achievement (not counting college), will suddenly produce all star numbers and lead the team to victory on a nightly basis if you play him 40 mpg. Haywood's having a career year. But 7th year players having career years that consist of 10 pts and 7 rebs, rarely if ever become the cornerstones of franchises with hopes of contending.

"But I don't agree that stats always extrapolate out as a linear relationship."

Simply and elegantly stated, and spot-on accurate, g. And, almost certainly, well outside the grasp off many, many people who read it.

Posted by: kalorama | February 13, 2008 11:34 AM

But 7th year players having career years that consist of 10 pts and 7 rebs, rarely if ever become the cornerstones of franchises with hopes of contending.

Two points here. One, most of us would argue that Haywood's modest totals are the result of the very limited minutes he's playing. He barely plays more than half the game, on average. So that argument is fallacious.

Second, I don't know that I'd call him a cornerstone of the franchise. I think you can win with Haywood at C, if you use him properly. I don't think Eddie sees his value, and hence, hurts his team's chances to win.

Simply and elegantly stated, and spot-on accurate, g. And, almost certainly, well outside the grasp off many, many people who read it.

I would also speculate that comments like this don't do anything to diminish your reputation as an insufferable know-it-all. Calling other posters morons is arrogant and unfounded.

Posted by: Keithinator | February 13, 2008 1:15 PM

kalorama,

If the way you "observe" the basketball game is the same as the way you read my post, no wonder your observation is full of biases!

I said, "The way to win basketball games is by *numbers*. If my team scores more points than your team, my team wins." It is clear that by *numbers* I mean the points each team scored at the end of the game, and this *numbers* determine who wins. Only a fool will argue against this statement, but amazingly, you did (by selectively cutting away my second sentence).

You took issue when I said it is a "cold fact" that Warriors made a 12-0 run after Haywood was taken out. Instead, you said that the "cold fact" is that Harrington didn't score a point!

This again, shows your strange and absurd selective criteria, just like the way you selectively cutting away my sentence.

Stat is not everything, and nobody says it is. But you are the only one who is so proud that your observation *always* contradicts with the stats. Worse yet, your observation often concentrates on unimportant part of the game (such as Harrington scores or not) and completely missed the whole picture.

Bottom line, your observation can never be backed up by anything, not stats, NOTHING!

Posted by: Sagaliba | February 13, 2008 2:06 PM

There are certain people in here that are, for lack of a better term, idiots.

I'll point them out, DC Man88, and all of his other names and Kalorama.

While they annoy us for different reasons the end effect is the same. Ignore the stupidity.

One is anti-GA, the other is anti-other peoples opinions.

Posted by: JSchon | February 13, 2008 2:48 PM

DC Man and Kalorama are opinionated but knowledgeable; not idiots, perhaps insufferable at times but this is a forum for different points of view. Where it goes wrong is when the discussion turns to personal attacks and other issues unrelated to basketball.

Posted by: Myshkin | February 13, 2008 3:13 PM

I apoligize...
Sometimes they both say things that are intelligent... but even the most intelligent person can come across as annoying and when personal attacks, even subtle ones questioning your intelligence, all bets are off.

They may not be idiots, but their behavior likens themselves to people who act like idiots... I just prefer to call a spade a spade.

Posted by: JSchon | February 13, 2008 5:16 PM

JSchon clearly needs to get a life. If you don't like what I have to say, that's obviously your problem. Too bad for you.

Posted by: DC Man88 | February 13, 2008 6:32 PM

@Jschon

what is the point of calling people out?

You are just as anti-other people's opinions as anyone else here...

Posted by: Anonymous | February 13, 2008 7:21 PM

Dear Anon...
I'm not anti-peoples opinion... I have mine, I express it... If I disagree with you, I may or may not let you know...

But I do not question your intelligence... nor do I think that I'm smarter than anyone in here.

Posted by: JSchon | February 14, 2008 9:52 AM

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