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Bobcats 101, Wizards 89

Statistically, the only difference in the game was that Charlotte made two more field goals (a pair of three-pointers) and six more free throws. Charlotte also scored 28 points off of 17 Washington turnovers.

That, along with Vladimir Radmonovic hitting five three-poiners in the second half was the story of how the Wizards fell to 11-42 heading into the all-star break.

By Ivan Carter  |  February 11, 2009; 10:19 PM ET
 
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Comments

Hey Ivan do you think the Wizards would able to give up Cb,Ab,Mj, or Ds for Chris Bosh

Posted by: brandonjamal13 | February 11, 2009 10:36 PM | Report abuse

An interim coach whom clearly will not be named head coach is in a lot of cases a caretaker until the new coach is named.

A caretaker keeps everything in order, keeps things copastetic, dosen't let the crazies run the asylum, keeps things even keel, even stevens, until the new permanent guy is named and takes over.

In the meantime, if the owner, or general manager comes to check on things to see how the interim guy is holding up, and they find out that:

Daaammmnn!

Everythings out of order, nothing is copastetic, the crazies are running amuck, disaray is rampant, nobody knows what the hey is going on, and the interim himself doesn't have a clue.

What do you do? Well most well run organizations would immediately fix the problem and not let it continue to go on.

For, if the situation is allowed to continue on, by the time you decided to hire your new permanent guy, things would be in such disrepair to the point of unfixable that any ole good coach might not even want the job. There's too much to fix.

The Wizard organization in their infinite wisdom are in danger of of creating a situation that is going to take enormous unprecidented effort to repair.

Did somebody say Stimulus Package???

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 11, 2009 10:59 PM | Report abuse

Antawn 40 minutes, Caron 45. Don't blame it all on injuries.

Posted by: twigmuffin | February 11, 2009 11:27 PM | Report abuse

It's pretty sad when the season was done well before the all star break.

I still think it's a great opportunity for EG to unload some people and start fresh next season, and those people include the captains. Nobody should be untouchable on a team that's the worst in the NBA.

Anybody hoping for health next season as a reason to keep the team together is betting against history when the team has never been consistently healthy.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 12:07 AM | Report abuse

I was making that same argument before last season ended. Too late now. They aren't going to find any takers for Arenas and Jamison won't attract anyone in trade who's as productive on the floor as he is. Teams aren't going to trade high-value assets for a 32-year old, jumpshooting PF with 3 more years and $45 mill on his deal.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 12:27 AM | Report abuse

Not one critique of Gilbert Arenas in this newspaper? Did no one hear the comment he made last month? Allow me to refresh. When our $111 million hero was asked if he expected to return to the team this year he said, 'would you?'. Any discerning human being-- when given a moment to consider the implications of these words-- must, one: translate that statement as meaning,' maybe i AM healthy, but clearly i'm too good to come back to a loser like this team', and two: immediately find a new team to pull for.
You remember this summer right? That's when the brain trust at the Washington Wizards signed AO to the league max contract while at the same time deciding that Roger Mason jr. was unworthy of even a tiny portion of that amount. Where did Roger go again? Oh, yeah, the Spurs. Is their a game Mason jr. hasn't won for them this year? Isn't he leading the league in 3 point percentage? Forget Roger for a second, even if Gilbert had been healthy this summer, even if he wasn't still 'recovering' from his second (or was it third?) knee surgery, what would this team have been gaining for the coveted Kobe money they opted to pay him? In my estimation, they bought themselves a streaky/ selfish "the team goes as i go" kind of player who has proven a defensive liability his entire career. Even with Arenas back on it's roster, this team is still and will forever be only a 10 to 15 games over .500 team. A one or two and out, middle of the pack, playoff team. They have, without the slightest doubt, carved out their place in NBA mediocrity for many, many years to come with the signing of AZERO.
I have tried, lord knows i've tried, to change my allegiances. When i heard about this summers $111 million signing debacle, i set my sights on finding a new team to love. Alas, though my mind is changed, my heart remains stubborn. So, on any given morning-- following any given Wizards loss-- i can be found at the local cafe, reading the Post, hoping against hope that i will find one reasonable sports journalist who will risk losing his invitation to Gils next birthday bash and finally speak my mind.

Posted by: oljakers | February 12, 2009 1:04 AM | Report abuse

Did not watch the game but how can Ivan write....

Statistically, the only difference in the game was that Charlotte made two more field goals (a pair of three-pointers) and six more free throws. Charlotte also scored 28 points off of 17 Washington turnovers.

The only stat that matters is Bobcats 101, Wizards 89

People get use to this because this is what the fans will be watching for the next three years!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 12, 2009 2:15 AM | Report abuse

With the Wizards' karma, they finish last in the league and end up with the 4th overall pick in the draft.

It would be cool to have Blake Griffin in DC, but the Wiz also need some back-court help.

As far as this season goes, remember that game where Caron beat the Pacers at the buzzer, or that win against a 6-2 Utah in the 6th game of the season?

Those times were awesome.

Posted by: JPRS | February 12, 2009 5:47 AM | Report abuse

When Gilbert responded off the cuff about coming back this season "Would you?", there is reason to speculate he is selfish and does not want to be tarnished by an already lost season. There is also reason to speculate that he and management are taking the approach that best meets the teams future needs. We do not need our first Allworld caliper player since Cwebb to comeback too soon, like Cwebb and give us only a percentage of his talent. We cut ties with Cwebb, took an aging allstar; Webber got healthy and nearly took the Kings all the way with less pieces than we currently have (assuming just one of AB NY or DM grow into their potential).

Remember too that we are crying on this blog to give more minutes to develop young talent to help them find their potential which would be minimized to bring Arenas back.

Last, and possibly most important, if he stays off the books this year and rehabs completely, the Wiz will recoup much of his salary through insurance. Reading stories about Brand last week brought this home. That money can be used to offset all of you fair weather fans fleeing. You'll be back next year jocking the transformation when our players with something important to prove come back healthy and get it done. Our team is motivated by adversity. Keep it coming. Next year is going to be big for Washington.

Posted by: yankeevicar | February 12, 2009 6:38 AM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78" "People get use to this because this is what the fans will be watching for the next three years!"

I hope not. But you may be right.

Once you make a mistake in the NBA, it's hard to fix. The cap structure seems to fight you. So can your owner once he gets worried about the lux tax. When you look around for help, you find yourself inundated with bad trade offers like some we saw in yesterday's blog, and overpriced free agents that can dig your hole even deeper still.

Worse yet, you've got the example of other clubs that spent half a decade getting middle or late first round draft choices and wound up sinking slowly (talent wise) to the bottom.

Maybe it's inevitable. Once the cycle begins, not that many teams have been able to avoid the endpoint -- a miserable season or three. And all that entails: disgruntled fans, falling ticket sales, a merry go round of coaches and GMs, maybe even a new owner.

Then, gradually, your 'luck' (if that's what is is) begins to change. A couple draft choices fall into your lap, and turn out to be way better than you had a right to expect. Maybe there's a midlevel free agent that to everybody's surprise, reveals himsel to be a stud rebounder or 3 point shooter. Maybe your division gets weaker, or your young players have fewer injuries, or some other team makes a big mistake that elevates you a couple notches in the eyes of your fan base.

Which is quite a bit smaller than it used to be.

It's not a lot of fun, but at least you're not lonely.

Let's hope the Wiz avoid that. But will they? Your guess is as good as mine. Or better.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 12, 2009 7:06 AM | Report abuse

Maybe there really IS hope on the horizon....

"The 7-foot-3 Thabeet had eight points, 16 rebounds and seven blocks and affected even more shots as the Huskies sent the Orange to their fifth loss in six games. "

I still haven't really watched him closely but GM and others like him.

Posted by: original_mark | February 12, 2009 8:10 AM | Report abuse

yankeevicar

exactly! I'm in full get healthy, play the pups mode. These fair weather fans be damned! Jamison too. Butler and Jamison should get about 24 minutes per game each, with only about 5 of those minutes being in the 4th quarter. That's it. Let the pups play and see who got game & HEART. These folks really don't think the Wiz have any hope of making the playoffs. Right now, when I watch the games, I want to see Javaris, Javelle, Blatche, DMac, and Nick. I want to see their growth and development. Sort of like pre-season. I dont care about seeing anyone else because I know what they bring. These fake fans want Gil to play. For what? You got upwards of $100 million invested in a player and you want to play him in meaningless games. I wouldn't play either if I was coming off serious injury. As in the pre-season, we don't want out main players to get hurt. We limit their minutes.

Posted by: G-Man11 | February 12, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

With that introduction from O-Mark it's time for me to stop in and beat the Thabeet drum for awhile.

Another beastly performance last night. The guy scored 8 points and dominates a game. Pure old fashioned big man dominance, you come in the paint I'll swat your shot and may hurt you to boot.

Years ago "Big Gheorghe" altered all kinds of shots with his 7'6" height and he couldn't jump a lick, and struggled to run and chew gum at the same time.

Thabeet is a 7'3" guy with long arms, strength, hops, and a goal tender's timing. Tapps has been playing lineups with Jamison at center, and Songaila has been getting the lion's share of the minutes there.

Stop and think about the Wizard's problems. Now think about the difference between driving the lane with Songaila or Jamison waiting for you, or Thabeet. I rest my case...

Posted by: flohrtv | February 12, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

"There is a difference between being an NBA talent and an NBA player. He has NBA talent, that is clear, and he's on his way to being an NBA player."

Interim coach Ed Tapscott, on rookie C JaVale McGee.

This is what is called a put down. Why would a coach in any capacity put down one of his players in such a public manner?

It can either be ignorance, prejudice or an ego out of control. Combined with other statements about veterans such as Stevenson, it seems that Taps harbors deep-seated biases that he cannot adjust to reflect the current environment.

That means more of the same for the rest of the year, and a losing season without even acheiving any secondard objectives such as player development.

Posted by: Izman | February 12, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

I’ve been riding the Thabeet wagon for some time. Did anyone actually watch the entire Cuse game last night? That is EXACTLY what the Wizards are lacking. It’s good to hear some people acknowledge he is what the Wizards need (OrigMark & Flohr). For all the “haters” still out there (who shall remain nameless lol), let me enlighten you with some post game quotes from BOTH coaches:


JIM CALHOUN: "We're not the best offensive team in the league but we're a pretty good defensive team with Hasheem in the middle," Calhoun said. "He affected 20 penetrations in the lane. Don't get caught up in stats with him, even as good as they are, because he is one of the most amazing forces in basketball in America."

JIM BOEHEIM: “Boeheim called Thabeet a "tremendous defensive player."
"I've said it before and I still believe he's the best we've had in this league," Boeheim said. "We're an inside team and takes that away from you."


Hmmm, let’s just say those 2 coaches know a thing or two about NBA talent. Especially Calhoun. The kid is the real deal. He is a defensive force, who has the capability to single handedly make any team better defensively. Without him, UConn would be an average team. They are not a good offensive team, as Calhoun stated, yet they are #1 in the country.

Thabeet’s offensive game is progressing, but keep this in mind: Anyone who knows ANYTHING about Jim Calhoun, knows his offense runs through his guards. Period. The offense goes through AJ Price and Jerome Dyson (local guy). Ray Allen, Caron, Rip, El-Amin, Ben Gordon, etc. are just examples of all the high scoring guards to come out of UConn recently. For those of you who are on the Blake Griffin bandwagon, I got news for you, HE IS OK’s OFFENSE. Everything goes through him, so of course he is going to average a decent clip (scoring).

I’m not sold on a guy from Oklahoma. How many successful players are there in the NBA from OK? Anyone remember Hollis Price? LOL! Now compare that number to UConn. Calhoun BREEDS NBA talent, he’s been doing it for quite some time.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Ivan,
Very astute.
So you're saying that the reason for this lose is basically because the Bobcats scored more points than the Wizzies?
WOW!

Posted by: VBFan | February 12, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Thabeet is a 7'3" guy with long arms, strength, hops, and a goal tender's timing. Tapps has been playing lineups with Jamison at center, and Songaila has been getting the lion's share of the minutes there.

Stop and think about the Wizard's problems. Now think about the difference between driving the lane with Songaila or Jamison waiting for you, or Thabeet. I rest my case...

Posted by: flohrtv | February 12, 2009 8:52 AM

The problem has not been shot blocking, its the defensive scheme and putting your shot blocker in the game. If you play the same pick and roll defensive scheme with Thabeet who is clearly less athletic than Javelle McGee, it will be a continuous layup drill. Imagine Thabeet hedging on the pick and roll at the top of the arc and trying to recover back to his defender. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Secondly, McGee who is clearly more skilled than Thabeet is averaging almost 2 blocks a game (and changing many more) in 20 minutes per game.


I'm not saying Thabeet is a bad pick but with Haywood and McGee that is merely duplication with less upside. Under legitimate coaching and a change in defensive scheme, we have enough bigs to defend the paint. Our problewm is perimeter shooting and defense which we need to address via the draft or free agency. Also did I mention finding a coach.

Posted by: NewManagement | February 12, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

I like Thabeet -- aside from raw talent, he's a character guy, which never hurts, either -- but I have come across some legit-sounding criticisms of his play. Some examples:
1) he's not all that fast getting up and down the floor. Might be effort, might be conditioning, but the couple games I've watched, the comment seemed valid.
2) he's not very strong for his size. Of course, most college players aren't. The item I read compared him unfavorably to Oden in that respect. Of course, Oden has his downside, too.
3) he's pretty one-dimensional. Shotblocker first, everything else second. The Cuse game suggested that maybe that's changed. My thought is that shotblockers take a little longer to get their bearings in the NBA. They discover they can't block the shots they did in college, and are forced to learn to play on the ground or be out of position after the shot goes up. Not unlike McGee's adjustment. Compare that to a big man whose game is based on rebounding (Dwight Howard) or offense (Yao Ming).

Just some thoughts.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 12, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

"I'm not saying Thabeet is a bad pick but with Haywood and McGee that is merely duplication with less upside."

I too like Thabeet very much but I have to agree with NewManagement here. If they draft him you'll need to trade either BH or JM as there will be a logjam in the C position. Another thing is drafting Thabeet will not solve the low post scorer that the team has been lacking for many years now. I have to go with Blake by a close margin.

Posted by: Dave381 | February 12, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

"Did not watch the game but how can Ivan write...."

Easy. it's because he's beginning to feel like there's nothing else to write. how many times has he said some variation of "same old story."

"Ivan,
Very astute.
So you're saying that the reason for this lose is basically because the Bobcats scored more points than the Wizzies?
WOW!"

Actually, he said that was only one of the statistical differences...not the reason. No need to put words in his mouth just so you can justify taking out your frustrations on the guy. Face it, the source of your frustration is not the coverage of the wizards play.
---------------

Posted by: crs-one | February 12, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

After reviewing the last play in the locker room, Brown went into a tirade.

"That last call is the worst call that I have ever been a part of," Brown said. "I cannot imagine another worse call than that. It was an awful call and for him to take away a basketball game from a team with 0.4 seconds on the clock is irresponsible."

-----------------

i thought making fun of the cav's coach brown will provide some entertainment.

I mean really. the only reason they were in a position to have the game taken away from them (against the paceers) was because of an identical call in the final seconds that put you up in the first place.

Posted by: crs-one | February 12, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Thabeet will lose some of his defensive effectiveness when he gets to the NBA, because the level of athleticism and quickness takes a big jump up from the college game. I like him a lot more and think more highly of him than I did a few months ago, but I still don't think he will be dominant.

And it doesn't seem reasonable to have Thabeet and McGee at the same time. They couldn't really play together, it wouldn't work... so why tie up a bunch of money in young big men when one has to come off the bench?

Blake Griffin is the biggest talent, if we get lucky enough to get the top pick it'll clearly be him. After that, options, options, options...

Posted by: andy22 | February 12, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

To all those who question the Wiz drafting Thabeet.

-To address the BTH situation: Dump him. Trade him, cut him, buy him out, just do whatever it takes. He is dead wood. He sucks. Period. I won’t get into the stats, or the production.

-Move AB to the 4 (where he belongs), thus giving the Wiz a young, two headed monster at center.

-The low-post game is NOT the Wiz problem. With a healthy Gil, scoring has NEVER been an issue. DEFENSE has been the issue, period. The scheme WILL change with the new coach. Tapps is just a warm body who is still running EJ’s defense, because quite frankly, EG wants as many ping pong balls as possible.

-To compare him to Javale is nonsense. He is clearly better than Javale. To make this quote, is wrong:

“The problem has not been shot blocking, its the defensive scheme and putting your shot blocker in the game. If you play the same pick and roll defensive scheme with Thabeet who is clearly less athletic than Javelle McGee, it will be a continuous layup drill. Imagine Thabeet hedging on the pick and roll at the top of the arc and trying to recover back to his defender. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Secondly, McGee who is clearly more skilled than Thabeet is averaging almost 2 blocks a game (and changing many more) in 20 minutes per game.”

McGee averaged 7.3 rebs and 2.8 blks at NEVADA in the WAC!
Thabeet is averaging 10.5 & 4.2 Blocks for the #1 team in the BIG EAST!
They are incomparable.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

I've been watching Thabeet since he arrived at U Conn, all of the things Samson 151 said have been legit concerns. Plus I'll add another, he plays high. 7'+ guys have a tendancy to stand striaght up and reach. Haven't seen a one that doesn't do it. But every flaw seems coachable to me.

This year his strength has improved and he's learning to "sit down" in the post position. On defense he's leveraging better then before. Beleive it or not, he's blocking 6 and 7 shots lately and maintaining his feet as well.

For the tragiclly uninformed, that means he doesn't jump until the offensive player leaves his feet. It's really hard to maintain defensive position AND block a lot of shots too. This guy is doing it in a stretch of games where they've been playing Big East competition. He's not putting together these games agianst the same level of competition as Griffin.

He's a guy that has improved every year, seems very coachable, and is still young for a big, so he's going to spend a couple of more years growing into that massive frame.

And if the Wiz have a 7'3" guy chasing point guards around 30' from the basket, they deserve to lose. Draft Thabeet and some legit defensive minded coaches will lineup to be here.

The Czar already has some very good things to say about McGuire's defensive game. And the potential of some of the Wizards young talent. The Wiz would need to add a coach that has worked with young bigs in the past. Van Gundy & the Czar are two that come to mind.

They'd also need to hire a "BIG MAN" Coach. I wonder about Motumbo, he has Washington ties. I always liked to listen to Dantley and his views on the game when he was here doing postgame. He's worked under Sloan, one of the toughest work-a-day coaches the NBA has ever seen.

I'd like to see a guy that would bring a more no nonsense approach to the Wiz lockerroom. Draft Thabeet and the wiz make a big step in changing the culture around here.

I will close with my standard Blake Griffin is the #1 guy in this draft. If the Wiz get that pick, they almost have to take him. But a trade of Griffin could easily yeild a package that would include Thabeet as the center peice.

I'd compare the situation to when Penny Hardaway and Webber got traded for each other. Trading top guys does happen.

Posted by: flohrtv | February 12, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

"I was making that same argument before last season ended. Too late now. They aren't going to find any takers for Arenas and Jamison won't attract anyone in trade who's as productive on the floor as he is. Teams aren't going to trade high-value assets for a 32-year old, jumpshooting PF with 3 more years and $45 mill on his deal.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 12:27 AM "

With regard to Gilby, the only team that had real interest in him was Golden State during free agency. In order for him to get paid max money which is all he wanted, EG should have signed him at that, and then traded him. That's what I was saying. That extra year of salary would have been incentive enough for Gilby to do the sign and trade.

With regard to MeTawn, I think many teams are interested now in shoring up their scoring as they position themselves for the playoffs, especially in the West.

I can do a trade with Houston with MeTawn for Scola, Carl Landry, and Luther Head especially since TMac is a huge question mark for them.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2763~3217~1781~385&teams=27~27~27~10&te=&cash=

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

" I have tried, lord knows i've tried, to change my allegiances. When i heard about this summers $111 million signing debacle, i set my sights on finding a new team to love. Alas, though my mind is changed, my heart remains stubborn. So, on any given morning-- following any given Wizards loss-- i can be found at the local cafe, reading the Post, hoping against hope that i will find one reasonable sports journalist who will risk losing his invitation to Gils next birthday bash and finally speak my mind.

Posted by: oljakers | February 12, 2009 1:04 AM "

If only Lisa could get your valid argument into her thick skull.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

crs-one

The reason I wrote what I did was because the difference in the game was not that Charlotte made two more field goals (a pair of three-pointers) and six more free throws.

Look at the stats Charlotte was 16-21 from behind the arch and 11-27 from the free throw line while the Wizards were 10-13 from behind the arch and 9-18 from the free throw line.

To me that a lack of defending the 3 point shot and not getting foul shots means the Wizards never like to play physically.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 12, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

To date, no one has any clue what is holding up Gilby from getting on the court.

EG has not been forthcoming with any information.

Not medically cleared yet? Is that b/c EG the doctor is on the payroll and was told to keep Gilby officially shut down even though Gilby was cleared last season because the doctor said that no further damage can be expected from the structurally sound knee, to which Gilby said it's mostly a mental thing for him while he continues to cash his paycheck?

The only thing we are hearing is that NY is thrashing Gilby in one on one pick up games.

Gilby isn't like fine wine. He's not going to get better with age.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

CJ658 - good point about Griffin. He is the biggest athletic guy on the floor in a weak conference. His numbers will certainly be inflated vs. the NBA. Reports are that he has a good work ethic, but that just means he is like Etan Thomas.

The 4th, 5th, or 6th pick might be the most desireable. All those picks are gamble/upside picks. Rubio, Curry, Hardeen, Thabeet, Monroe, Lawson. The sixth pick is just as likely to be a boom or bust as the 1st or 2nd at less $.

Darn - just the wizards luck, they have a chance to tank when there is nothing worth tanking for.

Posted by: cballer | February 12, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Last, and possibly most important, if he stays off the books this year and rehabs completely, the Wiz will recoup much of his salary through insurance. That money can be used to offset all of you fair weather fans fleeing.

Posted by: yankeevicar | February 12, 2009 6:38 AM

Yankeevicar:

If Cheap Abe gets the insurance money does that mean he will give refunds to anyone who bought tickets because he put an inferior product on the floor this year?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 12, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

If you believe that McGee has more PF skills than C skills, Thabeet would be an interesting pick, especially if McGee could add a reliable Rasheed-like 12-15 footer to his repertoire. A 7'3" lane clogger and 7 foot athlete would be a tough combo for any team to handle. Wouldn't matter too much that Thabeet's a bit slow getting up and down the court if McGee can cover for him.

Posted by: mugsybol | February 12, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78

The reason I wrote what i did is because Ivan prefaced his statement by saying "statistically." meaning he wasn't looking at the underlying reasons. so in answer to "how can he write that," I was saying that all the underlying reasons have been covered ad nauseum.

Posted by: crs-one | February 12, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

FlohrTV: Good post regarding Thabeet. Well said.

All in all, I truly believe a Final 4 match between OK & UConn would be telling. This match could go a long way in determining who the # 1 pick is. Thabeet’s stock is rising, quickly. Like I metioned before, when was the last time coaches had such high marks on a player. Especially 2 hall of fame coaches, Boeheim & Calhoun. Boeheim went as far as to say Thabeet is the best player in the conference. And yes, he is the opposing coach. I’ll take a UConn product over an OK product any day of the week. This team already has 4 guys capable of getting 30 on any given night. Do we really need more scoring? Like Flohr mentioned, drafting Thabeet would immediately change the culture of this team, and deliver the message that, yes, we are trying to win a championship.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

WIth the right defensive minded coach, Ab, BTH, JM and Thabeet could be an awesome lineup just in terms of length.
As I've noted before BTH and JM are 1 and 2 in the league in regard to standing reach. I can't imagine that Thabeet would be far behind.
As someone else astutely noted, though...having bigs go out to the top of the key and 'show' on pick and rolls and then run back down low doesn't make a lot of sense to me. We need a coach who can utilize this length.

I'm not advocating Thabeet yet because I haven't seen him play and I'm pretty sure he's not gonna be guarding perimeter shooters (our Achilles heel for 10 years now). He's not the only answer and he may be redundant but it sure would be nice to challenge guys skipping down the lane once in a while.

Posted by: original_mark | February 12, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Right now all draft picks are pure speculation because no one knows where the Wizards will end up picking and a lot will depend on how far a player’s team makes it in the NCAA tourney.

As far as BTH goes since it was a wrist and not a knee or back injury he should be able to come back next year. The question is will other desperate GM’s conclude the difference between the Wizards performance last year and this one was BTH? If a team like Charlotte offers BTH more money after next year than the Wizards, which the Wizards could match (remember the name Roger Mason) but probably will not then the team needs to think about drafting a center?

The team committed its cap space to Gil, AJ, and CB so they do not need another scorer. They need a coach who can design a scheme that will bring out the strengths of the players they have and not worry about trying to match up to the other teams lineup.

I agree AB is a PF and not a center. If they can move the contracts of ET and MJ and get a 3 point shooter that would help. Next year a starting lineup of Gil PG, CB SG, AJ SF, AB PF, BTH C, should get them into the playoffs but I do not see them winning a championship.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 12, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

The addition of a one-dimensional shotblocker is not going to magically transform a defense-incapable squad like the Wizards in a defensive force. Someone compared him to Muresan earlier. Putting aside the fact that Big G wasn't exactly Mutombo (he only averaged as many as 2 bpg once), the Wizards were a terrible defensive team with him on the floor. Guys like Hakeem and Mourning were great shotblockers, but they were also dominant rebounders and better than average individual defenders. Thabeet doesn't appear to be either of those things.

The NBA isn't college, where vertically challenged 5' 10' SGs are easily deterred from attacking the middle. Perimeter players in the NBA are bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic than college and aren't going to cower because there's some guy with long arms in the paint. Also, it's not 1990 anymore. Big guys can't just camp out in the lane all day and wait for little guys to drive the ball in their direction. Productive NBA shotblockers need to be mobile, laterally. Thabeet has some issues there.

I don't doubt that Thabeet will be a productive NBA player. I do doubt (with good reason) whether he'll be productive enough to justify using a top 5 pick on him.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

"good point about Griffin. He is the biggest athletic guy on the floor in a weak conference. His numbers will certainly be inflated vs. the NBA. Reports are that he has a good work ethic, but that just means he is like Etan Thomas."

Wow. Talk about creating a false correlation.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

"I can do a trade with Houston with MeTawn for Scola, Carl Landry, and Luther Head especially since TMac is a huge question mark for them."

You mean you can get the salaries to match up. That's not the same as doing a trade.

The only reason for a team to take on Jamison is because they think he'd be the missing piece to a title. The Rockets are in shambles and Jamison is not even close to being the guy that would put them over the top (esp. if it cost them two of their toughest interior guys behind Yao). Add to that the many many reports (with more coming each day) of teams trying to dump salaries in a tough economic climate, there's no way Houston would commit themselves to that kind of money just to (maybe) make it to the second round.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Thabeet will lose some of his defensive effectiveness when he gets to the NBA, because the level of athleticism and quickness takes a big jump up from the college game. I like him a lot more and think more highly of him than I did a few months ago, but I still don't think he will be dominant.

And it doesn't seem reasonable to have Thabeet and McGee at the same time. They couldn't really play together, it wouldn't work... so why tie up a bunch of money in young big men when one has to come off the bench?

Blake Griffin is the biggest talent, if we get lucky enough to get the top pick it'll clearly be him. After that, options, options, options...

Posted by: andy22 | February 12, 2009 10:11 AM

Well said.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

To suggest that Thabeet is not a better than average rebounder, or individual defender, is pretty farfetched. He is 1st in his conference in blocks, and 3rd in rebounds. He anchors the best defensive team in the nation. Opposing coaches have said he has forced them to alter their game plans. Opposing coaches have said he takes away the inside game. With a player who is 7’3 has the ability to do this in the best conference in the nation, you draft him. Period. This is a no-brainer, and not worth arguing. I think Blake Griffin in a great player, don’t get me wrong. He is a great scorer, with great leaping ability. Thing is, he plays in a sub-par conference, his offense revolves around him, and he will not be able to simply “dunk” on NBA power forwards and centers. The argument people make against Thabeet is that he is getting all his blocks and rebounds against college players. Well guess what, Griffin is getting all those monster dunks and alley-oops against college players also. Think Griffin will be able to have that type of success in the NBA, think again. Like I said, I truly hope these two teams meet in the Final 4.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

"And it doesn't seem reasonable to have Thabeet and McGee at the same time. They couldn't really play together, it wouldn't work..."

Why not?? You give no reasons. When has it ever been a "bad thing" to have too much height, in a big man's league? Enlighten me.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

"Thabeet will lose some of his defensive effectiveness when he gets to the NBA, because the level of athleticism and quickness takes a big jump up from the college game."

If I'm not mistaken, Blake Griffin plays in this league you call "college" also, doesn't he?

Fact is, this very same argument can be used against Griffin. His entire game revolves around his athleticism. More so than Thabeet's.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

"You mean you can get the salaries to match up. That's not the same as doing a trade.

The only reason for a team to take on Jamison is because they think he'd be the missing piece to a title. The Rockets are in shambles and Jamison is not even close to being the guy that would put them over the top (esp. if it cost them two of their toughest interior guys behind Yao). Add to that the many many reports (with more coming each day) of teams trying to dump salaries in a tough economic climate, there's no way Houston would commit themselves to that kind of money just to (maybe) make it to the second round.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 11:50 AM "

This trade is definitely doable.

They need firepower and rebounding with TMac out.

They didn't bring in Artest and Mutombo to win 5 years down the line.

Having MeTawn on the team would definitely open things up for Yao inside.

If the Rockets are in shambles at 32-21, I'm sure Les BouleS wouldn't mind being in that kind of shambles.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

I think JM has more Ralph Sampson in him than Mutombo. Though Ralph played C, he could also have just as easily played PF because he had some semblance of an outside shot.

Same goes for JM. I really think that in the future he could play some PF. That said, I like the idea of occasionally pairing him with Thabeet AND Blatche for short stretches.

Alternately, I like BTH, Griffin and AB, too. Frankly, I don't think we lose with either player. The main difference is that there are more minutes at PF on this team than C. Given that, you gotta take Griffin.

Posted by: original_mark | February 12, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

if thabeet is soo good, then why did freshman greg monroe take a duece all over him...and there is a 5 inch differential between the two...thabeet is good...if i was picking no 5 or 6...but he is not a top 3 pick...

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 12, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

The only reason for a team to take on Jamison is because they think he'd be the missing piece to a title.....there's no way Houston would commit themselves to that kind of money just to (maybe) make it to the second round.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 11:50 AM


Only Washington would be that stupid and they did it just to make it to the first round?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 12, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Thabeet’s team is #1 in the nation, and well on their way to a #1 seed in the NCAA tournament.

Greg Monroe’s team should start to worry about who’ll they’ll play in round 1 of the NIT. Enough said.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

"Only Washington would be that stupid and they did it just to make it to the first round?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 12, 2009 12:26 PM "

Yeah, and unfortunately, MeTawn will be helping them make it to the lottery this season.

MeTawn has been designated the co-captain, but unfortunately, none of the young guys have responded to his leadership.

But, he's a stats guy, and will continue to get 20-10, win or lose.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

“if thabeet is soo good, then why did freshman greg monroe take a duece all over him.”

I remember a few years ago this guy named Gilbert Arenas scored 61 on Kobe Bryant. I would call that “taking a deuce” on Bryant. So I guess Kobe is not all that good huh?

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

"Same goes for JM. I really think that in the future he could play some PF. That said, I like the idea of occasionally pairing him with Thabeet AND Blatche for short stretches.

Alternately, I like BTH, Griffin and AB, too. Frankly, I don't think we lose with either player. The main difference is that there are more minutes at PF on this team than C. Given that, you gotta take Griffin.

Posted by: original_mark | February 12, 2009 12:19 PM "

JaTravel was in full travel effect last night.

JaTravel is like Marcus Camby. A reed thin guy who's put in the center position, but if he were shorter, would probably be best at the "quick side forward" position.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

"They didn't bring in Artest and Mutombo to win 5 years down the line."

No, they brought them in to win now. but they aren't winning now and adding jamison won't much change that.

Mutombo is signed to a vet minimum deal (so his financial impact is negligible) and there have already been rumblings that Artest (who's apparently been feuding with McGrady) is on the block. They've clearly fallen out of the title contention discussion, and Jamison won't put them back into it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

And by "not winning now" I mean they aren't in position to compete for a title, which many expected they would be at the start of the season.

"If the Rockets are in shambles at 32-21, I'm sure Les BouleS wouldn't mind being in that kind of shambles."

That record would be more impressive if it was good for better than 6th place in the conference.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

"Thabeet’s team is #1 in the nation, and well on their way to a #1 seed in the NCAA tournament.

Greg Monroe’s team should start to worry about who’ll they’ll play in round 1 of the NIT. Enough said."

what does that have to do with their individual matchup...monroe abused him...and if u want to talk about teams...monroe has a worse team...which should make it even harder...either way...in an individual match-up monroe destroyed him...

"I remember a few years ago this guy named Gilbert Arenas scored 61 on Kobe Bryant. I would call that “taking a deuce” on Bryant. So I guess Kobe is not all that good huh?"

wow...was kobe checking arenas for all of those 61 points, it wasnt until the last 15 points or so which kobe was checking him...plus kobe put up 50 himself...thabeet checked monroe that game...mono on mono...and monroe dogged him...i'm sorry but if monroe is dogging him so will a majority of the nba centers...i'm not trying to imply that thabeet sucks...just saying temper your enthusiasm about the guy, because at this point he isnt that great...he does have potential...but i would go with griffin or harden over thabeet

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 12, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

So what is McGee good at? Here's my list:
Jumping: he's probably the best leaping 7 footer I've ever seen. Am I forgetting somebody?
That's helped more than a little by the fact that he's so darned long to begin with.
Jump shot: OK, he can't hit it yet, at least not reliably, but it's pretty to look at. Can't imagine anybody blocking it. I like the way he releases the ball at it's highest point instead of pulling it down in front of his face.
Quickness: I don't know if he's the quickest 7 footer in the NBA, but he's close. Other big guys hate playing a quicker big man. I remember Patrick Ewing confessing that Olajawon always gave him the most trouble because he was so quick (even though Ewing was a couple inches taller.)
Foot speed: Especially compared to a guy like Thabeet, who sometimes seems awkward from one end to the other.
Hands: He doesn't fumble many passes. A few, sure. He'll get used to them.

What he isn't:
Strong: doubt I'll get much argument about that. His lower body is actually sort of frail. Reminds me a little of the young Marcus Camby. Marcus was more polished coming into the league, however.
Skilled: really, if you forced it out of me, I would say he's current below average. Potential, definitely. Actuality, maybe later.

I keep recalling Shaq's comment that he didn't learn to play basketball until he started to lose his legs and started playing on the floor with everybody else. An interesting perspective.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 12, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Now I definitely WOULD compare McGee to Thabeet. Both 7 footers, both shotblockers, both young and inexperienced -- what else do you need?

That's not to say they're the same player. McGee is way faster, and probably quicker. He also outjumps everybody. Thabeet has a bigger frame and more potential to add bulk. He's also a better natural rebounder at this point.

So who's better? I think they're both very, very promising. We'd have to wait to see the finished product before making a final decision. If it was me, I'd go with McGee. If only because the NBA game is moving more in his direction than in Thabeet's.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 12, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

"That record would be more impressive if it was good for better than 6th place in the conference.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 12:37 PM "

And if Les BouleS were in the West, their win total would probably be in the low single digits.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

FRUSTRATION IS...............
having 3 potential all-stars,a dominating center,on the bench a 2nd year scorer (NY), an athletic rookie center (JVM),a rebounder defensive stopper (DM) a playoff experienced coach, and the cohesiveness of playing together for 2 seasons and having it all unravel.

Yeah----we're frustrated.
Sometimes we take it out on the wrong people---Ivan, Ernie, Eddie Tap, Abe and each other.

What to do??
Try to find some positives.
I'd a thought that NY woulda taken advantage of this situation to make a statement that he's ready to play NBA style ball EVERY game. The other bench players need to get the chance to show that they can or can't play at this level. Maybe Pech can get it done. It would be better to see him sink or swim while the season is lost than see him go to another team and succeed.
Critt started out slow and is coming along with PT. Maybe there are others that will shine given time.

Posted by: VBFan | February 12, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

'And if Les BouleS were in the West, their win total would probably be in the low single digits."

True. Utterly irrelevant with regard to the topic at hand, but true nonetheless.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

"FRUSTRATION IS...............
having 3 potential all-stars,,b>a dominating center,on the bench a 2nd year scorer (NY), an athletic rookie center (JVM),a rebounder defensive stopper (DM) a playoff experienced coach, and the cohesiveness of playing together for 2 seasons and having it all unravel."

A dominating center? Did a miss a trade for Dwight Howard?

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

One other thought, then I'll shut up: Thabeet doesn't look 7'3" to me. Saw him once in person last season, and he didn't look as tall as Mutombo. Of course, we won't know til the end of the year, when the pros show up with their measuring tape. Even then they may not tell us...

Posted by: Samson151 | February 12, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

"No, they brought them in to win now. but they aren't winning now and adding jamison won't much change that.

Mutombo is signed to a vet minimum deal (so his financial impact is negligible) and there have already been rumblings that Artest (who's apparently been feuding with McGrady) is on the block. They've clearly fallen out of the title contention discussion, and Jamison won't put them back into it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 12:34 PM "

Yes, at 32-21, they are not winning now....if they were in the Bizarro league.

They are currently missing their franchise player, who's out injured.

Mutombo provides great insurance for them in case Yao gets hurt, as was the case last season.

And, besides Artest, most of the top players in the league get mentioned in trade rumors.

If you rank Houston against the entire league, East and West, the Rockets are #11 out of 30 teams.

Sucks to be not winning.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

"True. Utterly irrelevant with regard to the topic at hand, but true nonetheless.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 1:07 PM "

The point that you missed was that in the West, the teams are much more evenly matched with the #8 seed being only 12.5 games back, while in the east, the #8 seed is 17.5 games back and under .500.

Houston in the West is at the 6th seed is 10.5 games back. Detroit in the East at the 6th seed is 14.5 games back.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

"The point that you missed was that in the West, the teams are much more evenly matched with the #8 seed being only 12.5 games back, while in the east, the #8 seed is 17.5 games back and under .500."

Yeah, because making up 12 games with less than half a season to go is such a snap. The best they could hope for is a late push to get into the top 4 and get home court, which (if they're lucky) would mean getting bounced in the second round instead of the first. They aren't going to mortgage their future on Jamison for that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

;'If you rank Houston against the entire league, East and West, the Rockets are #11 out of 30 teams."

In a league where, realistically, only 4 or 5 (if you count Orlando) teams have a shot at winning a title. (And, last I checked, playoff seedings were by conference, not league wide ranking.)

Again, the only reason for them to take on Jamison's deal is if they think he'll make them contenders. They don't think that. No one does.

Winning 40+ games and getting bounced in the first round (again) won't be any cause for celebration for the Rockets.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

A team like the Rockets is shooting for a title. The best evidence is a gamble on Artest. You go for a player like that only if you think you're close and just need a push over the top. Artest used to be that sort of player.

So 32 wins is impressive to me, sure. But not to your fans in Houston when the squad you know you have to beat is 10 games up on you at midseason. And even if LA falters, there's still the Spurs and Hornets and Blazers and so forth... and Tracy McGrady isn't playing all that well.

I don't know if I'd trade Mutombo to the Wiz, but I might consider trading him for somebody, period, if I thought it might help me win a few extra games.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 12, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

RUBIO RUBIO RUBIO

Posted by: peteywheatstraw | February 12, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

From the Sports Guy's Trade Value Rankings:

"[Caron] Butler to Houston for Luis Scola, Shane Battier and a 2009 No. 1."

Yes, please. Gives the Wizards the strong wing defender they need, plus Scola would immediately become the best pure PF on the roster. Then the Wizards could use the lottery pick for best player available, and have lots of little pieces to use in trades.

Posted by: disgruntledfan | February 12, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

"Yeah, because making up 12 games with less than half a season to go is such a snap. The best they could hope for is a late push to get into the top 4 and get home court, which (if they're lucky) would mean getting bounced in the second round instead of the first. They aren't going to mortgage their future on Jamison for that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 1:22 PM "

The future of their franchise is Yao and TMac.

They won't be mortgaging their future by bringing on a healthy all star vet in MeTawn who's had a history of 20-10's who can provide the scoring and rebounding punch that they don't have now and aren't getting from Scola, Landry, or Luther Head.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

A dominating center? Did a miss a trade for Dwight Howard?

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 1:08 PM

Compared to what we're doing now----BH Dominated.

Posted by: VBFan | February 12, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

MAN!!! You guys are killing Arenas did he he steal one of your women or what? I mean damn all the guy did was put NBA basketball back on the map in the DC area and you all thank him how? by trashing him every chance you get, granted Gil's a little quirky and he puts his foot in his mouth more often than not but when he's healthy he's in the upper echelon of NBA players; did you expect Gilbert to turn down the contract he was offered? that was on EG and Mr.Pollin, not a one of you would have turned down that windfall and Gilbert's not on the area police blotter he doesn't have baby mama drama and he's pretty much a good guy listen i'm dissapointed he hasn't come back but he rushed back last year trying to please everybody and looked what happened, so stop killing the guy.

Posted by: dargregmag | February 12, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

"Again, the only reason for them to take on Jamison's deal is if they think he'll make them contenders. They don't think that. No one does.

Winning 40+ games and getting bounced in the first round (again) won't be any cause for celebration for the Rockets.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 1:26 PM "

Do you work in their front office?

They have a trio of Yao-TMac-Artest now, and don't think a 20-10 guy can help?

Sticking with the same team that got bounced in the first round last season isn't going to be a cause for celebration either.

At least with MeTawn, they have a 20-10 guy who can pick up the slack that the other guys on the team don't seem to be doing now.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"Compared to what we're doing now----BH Dominated.

Posted by: VBFan | February 12, 2009 1:40 PM "

BTH done did well against Boston and Orlando last season. This season, without him, they are getting killed.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

"MAN!!! You guys are killing Arenas did he he steal one of your women or what? I mean damn all the guy did was put NBA basketball back on the map in the DC area and you all thank him how? by trashing him every chance you get, granted Gil's a little quirky and he puts his foot in his mouth more often than not but when he's healthy he's in the upper echelon of NBA players; did you expect Gilbert to turn down the contract he was offered? that was on EG and Mr.Pollin, not a one of you would have turned down that windfall and Gilbert's not on the area police blotter he doesn't have baby mama drama and he's pretty much a good guy listen i'm dissapointed he hasn't come back but he rushed back last year trying to please everybody and looked what happened, so stop killing the guy.

Posted by: dargregmag | February 12, 2009 1:46 PM "

What is the intrinsic value to the fans of Gilby supposedly "putting DC on the basketball map?" Not much.

MJ drama came and went.

Gilby drama came and will go also.

You must have missed the past 3-4 years of Gilby drama that has included an arrest, musings of suicide, 1.5 mil swimming pool/skating rink, baby mamma drama, etc.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

“what does that have to do with their individual matchup...monroe abused him...and if u want to talk about teams...monroe has a worse team...which should make it even harder...either way...in an individual match-up monroe destroyed him...”

WOW!!! Did you watch the game? First off, Greg Monroe is a very good player, and has a bright future in the NBA. Monroe had 16 points and 3 rebounds. Yet you say “Monroe abused him”. LOL! I watched that game. 6 of the points were open threes when UConn was playing a zone. 2 of them came on a very lucky skyhook, which Monroe himself admitted was luck after the game. That’s 8 points right there that had nothing to do with Thabeet. Monroe is 6’11, and Gtown’s tallest player, he only had 3 rebounds. Where did he abuse Thabeet? Enlighten me. And FYI, to suggest Thabeet has “way better” teammates that Monroe is garbo. Thuthfully, Gtown is more talented, top to bottom. Do your homework kid.


“wow...was kobe checking arenas for all of those 61 points, it wasnt until the last 15 points or so which kobe was checking him...plus kobe put up 50 himself...thabeet checked monroe that game...mono on mono...and monroe dogged him...i'm sorry but if monroe is dogging him so will a majority of the nba centers.

Again, you are blantantly wrong. So even if Kobe was checking Gil for only 15 points (which is way off, Gil dropped at least 30 on Kobe mono y mono), then how is Monroe scoring 16 “abusing” Thabeet? Again, 2 open threes were a result of UConn’s zone, and Thabeet was nowhere near him. Take those away, that’s 10 points and 3 rebounds for your boy Monroe. Herdly being “abused”. How long have you been watching the game of basketball? Just curious.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Thabeet plays in one of the toughest, most physical conferences in the country. Not many 5'10" points in the Big East. He's one of the better college post defenders I've seen recently and that includes Oden.

He's also played 3 yrs of college ball, he's not as green as several players the Wiz have on the roster now.

As for McGee, I've got to agree with 88's point, if he was 6'10" everybody would call him a power forward. His Skillset seems to make him a hybred 4-5. Look at the NBA and who's won titles. Other then the MJ era and the Bulls center by committee approach, every title winner seems to have a pretty darned good big man.

With Thabeet and McGee the Wiz would have a pr. to develop. Maybe one gets to Allstar caliber, if they both do the Wiz are a title contender.

Posted by: flohrtv | February 12, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

“With Thabeet and McGee the Wiz would have a pr. to develop. Maybe one gets to Allstar caliber, if they both do the Wiz are a title contender.”

Very good point. I don’t get how people Can say Thabeet and Javale can’t play together. Why not?? I never knew too much height was a bad thing. I guess I need to keep up with the game lol.

It amazes how folks on here pick out the ONE game where an opposing big man had a good game against Thabeet. Then they claim he was “abused” and “destroyed”. Comical. Next time a player drops 16 points on KG, I will be saying that KG was “abused” and “destroyed” LOL! Yeah, that makes A LOT of sense. Some of you act as if Monroe had 34 points and 16 rebounds, now THAT would constitute being “abused”. Again, taking nothing away from Monroe, he is very talented, and a future draft pick, probably a lottery guy if he improves his sophomore year. He had a good game against UConn, but “destroyed”, that is BS.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Looking back the past 10-15 years, UConn has put out the most NBA talent of any other school (except UNC, although they are right up there with them). Look back at all the guys who have come out of UConn and the majority of them have had solid NBA careers. I’m not saying that every player from UConn will go on to be an NBA All-Star, but Calhoun breeds NBA talent.
Ray Allen
Hilton Armstrong
Josh Boone
Caron Butler
Khalid El-amin
Rudy Gay
Ben Gordon
Rip Hamilton
Travis Knight
Donyell Marshall
Emeka Okafor
Kevin Ollie
Cliff Robinson
Charlie Villanueva
Jake Voskuhl
Marcus Williams

Not too shabby. Show me another school that can say the same (except UNC). All I’m saying is, taking a chance with a UConn player, sure beats taking a chance with an OK player. Just saying that guys with big hype from UConn, are typically NBA ready. Thabeet is no different.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

well said dargregmag....everyone who hates on arenas is a fool...i mean yeah he aint perfect...but hes a great player...who could still stand to make improvements...

now as far as cj658...hahahahaha...i've been playin and watching and studying the game of basketball for a long time...like i said, my only point in bringing this up was that everyone is on thabeets d@*k just like u for no reason...ok so i dont know anything about basketball...neither does chad ford...who has monroe higher on his big board than thabeet....look thabeet is a good player...at this point nothing more...and btw...i would seriously doubt ur observations, especially since u think monroe is 6'11....he is listed at 6'10 and it has been said that its doubtful he is even that tall...btw later i will post a link to an article on nbadraft.net or draftexpress.com that broke downt his matchup and clearly supports my article u fool....

also as far as gilbert scoring 30 points on kobe mouth....HAHAHAHA...dude there is a youtube clip of each of gilberts 61 points not including free throws...now u tell me how many points gilbert scored on kobe... if i wasnt at work i'd break it down for u myself since u have trouble analyzing basketball...and even if gilbert did score 30 on kobe...who cares...gilbert is a great player...monroe is a good player as is thabeet...

in conclusion thabeet is not worthy of a top five pick...especially if u consider this team in full health...maybe if we get rid of haywood...but even then...we have two no 1 picks playing the same position...i'd say griffin harden monroe hill are all better players or will be better players than thabeet...

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 12, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

also if u watched that game like u said, i guess u saw thabeet miss about 4 point blank dunks or layups in that game...hahaha...and this is a guy who ur riding...come on man...just saying defense is his forte...if that is the case i expect him to defend well...and monroe said that his shots were luck...can we see that link somewhere?

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 12, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

I was just thinking about AJ's comment yesterday about Pech having only one post move.
Who's fault is that? Shouldn't our big man coach be responsible for making a guy learn some moves?

Injuries aside, I think that 90% of our issues are related to our poor coaching staff. I honestly think this is a 40 win team if we had a decent coach.

Posted by: original_mark | February 12, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

"They have a trio of Yao-TMac-Artest now, and don't think a 20-10 guy can help?"

As you pointed out, McGrady is hobbled right now (you directly stated they needed Jamison to make up for McGrady's missing production), and as he has made abundantly clear over the course of his career, he can't be counted on to stay healthy. And he hasn't been playing well even when he has played. And even when he is, he chokes in the clutch. And, as I said, their locker room is in such a bad state that they're actively shopping Artest. And trading Landy and Scola, their toughest interior role players (and primary backup C) for Jamison makes them smaller, weaker, and puts more, not less, burden on Yao. And so on . . .

Look, we all know what you think of Jamison, so no one buys, even for a minute, that you actually believe he would turn the Rockets into a contender.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

so ur gonnaa take a mediocre player from uconn over a stellar player from a nother point...what the hell is ur point...u talk about stuff completely unrelated to basketball...so i guess if u were gm u would have picked a player from uconn such as caron butler, over a say dwade?...hahahha...

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 12, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

from another school* i meant

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 12, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Travis Knight, Khalid El-Amin, Kevin Ollie, Marcus Williams, and Jake Voskuhl? Yeah, those are certainly some of UConn's brightest lights when it comes to NBA exports. no padding in that list. No siree.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

"As you pointed out, McGrady is hobbled right now (you directly stated they needed Jamison to make up for McGrady's missing production), and as he has made abundantly clear over the course of his career, he can't be counted on to stay healthy. And he hasn't been playing well even when he has played. And even when he is, he chokes in the clutch. And, as I said, their locker room is in such a bad state that they're actively shopping Artest. And trading Landy and Scola, their toughest interior role players (and primary backup C) for Jamison makes them smaller, weaker, and puts more, not less, burden on Yao. And so on . . .

Look, we all know what you think of Jamison, so no one buys, even for a minute, that you actually believe he would turn the Rockets into a contender.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 2:43 PM "

TMac's got 29 games to get ready for the playoffs. In the meantime, MeTawn can use his 20-10, or even come off the bench, to help them.

With Yao at the 5 as an all star center, which Les BouleS are sorely missing even with BTH, you never know how good the Houston team can be.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

cj658: "Not too shabby. Show me another school that can say the same (except North Carolina)"

UCLA?

Posted by: Samson151 | February 12, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

“my only point in bringing this up was that everyone is on thabeets d@*k just like u for no reason”

No reason huh? He’s 7’3, 265, averages over 10 rebounds and 4 blocks per game. He plays on the # 1 team in the country, and is the cornerstone of that team. He’s improved greatly each year at UConn. Did you see Calhoun’s and Boeheim’s quotes about him after the game? And you say “no reason”. LOL! Rethink that assessment and get back to me when you get your mouth away from Monroe’s shorts.


“and even if gilbert did score 30 on kobe...who cares...gilbert is a great player...monroe is a good player as is thabeet”

But you are the one who said Monroe getting 16 points and 3 rebounds is “abusing” and “destroying” Thabeet. But Gil scores 30 on Kobe, and your response is “who cares?” I’m confused man, help me out. And Kobe got burned in the 4th, when the game was on the line. But according to your only argument, Thabeet is sketchy because your boy Monroe scored 16 points on him?? Give me a break, you don’t sound too good right now, my friend.


“also if u watched that game like u said, i guess u saw thabeet miss about 4 point blank dunks or layups in that game...hahaha...and this is a guy who ur riding...come on man...just saying defense is his forte...if that is the case i expect him to defend well...and monroe said that his shots were luck...can we see that link somewhere?”

Monroe said his “skyhook” was luck. I don’t have the clip, but I remember hearing it. He laughed about it after the game. He was referring to the ONE shot, not “shots”. Note the singular. Again, you point out ONE game, lets look at the overall picture dilbert. He is the cornerstone of the #1 team, who rely strictly on defense. Again, top to bottom, GTown is more talented. Give it up.


“so ur gonnaa take a mediocre player from uconn over a stellar player from a nother school...what the hell is ur point...u talk about stuff completely unrelated to basketball...so i guess if u were gm u would have picked a player from uconn such as caron butler, over a say dwade?...hahahha..”

That’s not my point. Go back and read what I wrote. I said the trend shows that UConn players are typically NBA ready. I backed that up with real examples. All of the haters on Thabeet say his success is against college players, and won’t translate to the NBA. But look at all the UConn players whose success at UConn has translated to the NBA. That’s my point, my friend. Read it a third time, if that will help you understand it better. I never said “take Dwade over Butler”. All I said was, typically UConn players are NBA ready, and have good careers. Period.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78: "Did not watch the game but how can Ivan write....'Statistically, the only difference in the game was that Charlotte made two more field goals (a pair of three-pointers) and six more free throws. Charlotte also scored 28 points off of 17 Washington turnovers.' The only stat that matters is Bobcats 101, Wizards 89.

Well, in terms of the standings that's correct, but in terms of running a team, you have to measure your strengths and weaknesses or you won't know what to work on.

Ivan was suggesting the two teams aren't that far apart, except for turnovers and foul shots. At home, the Bobcats should have the advantage. It's a valid point.

The Wiz have had a turnover problem all year. In the recent blather about the draft, we've been looking mostly at big men, which you could argue isn't really a need. A really good ballhandler would help most.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 12, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

and my point is thabeet is not a great player point blank period.....

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 12, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I never said Thabeet was the next Hakeem. All I said was he is the best player available, and based on the Wiz blatant needs, it’s a no brainer to draft him.

Although I am convinced some on this board, some feel Blake Griffin is the second coming of Kevin Garnett.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

"The Wiz have had a turnover problem all year. In the recent blather about the draft, we've been looking mostly at big men, which you could argue isn't really a need. A really good ballhandler would help most.",/i>

Not necessarily.

Butler, Crittenton, Songaila, and McGuire are all good passers. The main reason for the rash of turnovers is because the poor floor spacing and other teams' lack of respect for anyone other than Jamison and Butler as offensive threats (A)allows opponents to pack the lanes and (B) results in Butler and Jamison often trying to make one-on-one moves on multiple defenders. A low post big man who draws the defense in would create more balanced offense, better openings for the perimeter players, and would eliminate a lot of the forced passes that the team's current makeup dictates.

It would also help if the guards would stop trying to force feed over the top lobs to Songaila and McGee when they're sandwiched in under the basket.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Blake Griffin is overrated.

Take Thabeet if he's available, if not, take the best PG or G that you can best mold into a two, if the guards available don't justify their spot, then pick Griffin.

I see Griffin as I do Hansbrough. Hardworking and great college basketball players.

I think they'll be eaten alive in the league - especially Hansbrough.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 12, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Draft arguments at the all-star break is despressing.

As for my take, as effective as I think Thabeet may turn out to be, I do not see how you can pass on Griffin. Too talented, and too good a fit for what the Wiz roster needs. Thabeet may or may not fit in with BTH and McGee. Add in AB and there are enough minutes at the Center position. Blake Griffin adds something different and is a unique talent.

On another note, did anyone see that ESPNs Sports Guy Bill Simmons mentioned the Fire Grunfeld guy in his column? Even added the email address for a free t-shirt. Not that I agree, but things travel quickly in cyberspace.

Posted by: UltimateFootballNetwork | February 12, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

kalorama: "A low post big man who draws the defense in would create more balanced offense, better openings for the perimeter players, and would eliminate a lot of the forced passes that the team's current makeup dictates."

So you're thinking an offensive big man?

Posted by: Samson151 | February 12, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Samson, if he is thinking an “offensive big man”, then he has truly fallen off the deep end. It boggles my mind to think that anyone could possibly suggest that this team needs more offense. If one thinks that acquiring another offense-first player will quell this teams problems, then they have truly lost their minds. I simply do not get it.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

"So you're thinking an offensive big man? "

As long as it's low post offense. Teams with no interior offense struggle to execute in the half-court and teams that struggle to execute in the half court have trouble advancing in the playoffs.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Teams that have absolutely no defensive force in the middle, typically struggle to .500 records, and are lucky if they even make the playoffs, let alone “advancing” in the playoffs.

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

I was back in the States most of January and watched Thabeet play a couple of times. All I can say is he must have found a lamp with a genie in it over the last couple of weeks, because the Thabeet I saw looked unmotivated and one-dimensional.

You can't deny his size and pedigree (although that UConn NBA list earlier was definitely padded... Khalid El-amin was a pudgy verson of God Shammgod) but I think Griffin will be the better overall player in the NBA.

This is NOT a terrific draft in any case, If the Wiz can package the Number One pick with an expiring contract and get a 5-6-7-8 pick and a frontcourt player with some decent upside (Hakim Warrick, Chris Wilcox) then the team could pick a player who has the pedigree and the tools to be the outside shooting killer we really need -- Stephen Curry.

Posted by: khrabb | February 12, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Whether you like it or not, EG has built the team around Arenas and Jamison. They can fill seats.

However, both want to play offense only, they don't want to share the ball and they want someone to cover up their defensive sins.

That's why Arenas dictates that Stevenson starts and that's why Jamison likes Haywood.

The team is built around this dynamic.

Management is locked into this approach, so until there is new management, I wouldn't expect any radical changes. EG has said he is happy with the roster.

Ask yourself why McGuire would be getting more minutes than JM, AB, and JC.

Posted by: Izman | February 12, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

UConn is known mostly for developing solid SG's and SF's, not big men.

Okafor is probably the best coming out of that school, but he's not at the consistent all star level yet.

Given that, I wouldn't put too much on what Thabeet can produce. Worse case, he'll turn into another Party John Ramos for Les BouleS, and based on Les BouleS luck, it's likely to happen.

People here were banging the Hibbert gong last season, and he's done nothing for the Pacers either. It'll be a long time before it'll be determined whether he's a bust or not.

Unless Blake Griffin measures out at 6-9 or above without shoes, I wouldn't be interested in drafting him either.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Wilcox will be in his 8th year next season, a bit past the point where he can be measured by potential. Warrick is a nice complimentary role player, but not a guy you give up an expiring contract and a lottery pick for. He was drafted 19th overall, and while it's likely he'd be taken higher if the '05 draft were redone today, it (A) wouldn't be much higher and (B)would be in part because several of the guys taken ahead of him turned out to be disappointments or busts.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of Wilcox, anyone see the sports section today? Ouch! Talk about below the belt.

What did Gary ever do to the editors here at WAPO? I mean, they literally tore him a new one. And that was only part one. Part two and three will be Fri and Sat. The Post has devoted 3 days of the front page sports headline to bashing Gary Williams. I mean, if you actually read between the lines in today’s article, it’s not pretty.

Ivan: we’ll be waiting for the 3-part series about Tapps, and how he has so pathetically underachieved. lol

Posted by: cj658 | February 12, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

As I've said for 100 or more times, Griffin is the most likely number 1 pick. Striaght up I wouldn't pick Thabeet over him.

I personally think Jordan Hill could be a better pro 4 then Griffin, but right now Griffin is dominating game after game. I just think Hill's game translates better to the pro game.

I'm also fairly confident that Hardin will be a very solid 2. And Curry will be a solid NBA scorer, if D'Atonia gets him in New York he'll be an All Star in two to three years. in some other systems he'd be average at best.

But when a team's #1 problem is defense, you have to look at starting to find good defensive players. And that's the reason I beleive Thabeet makes the most sense here.

Thabeet sure isn't a Roy Hibbert, I know somebody will go back and dig out the stats of some game that Hibbert dominated Thabeet. But I'm looking at how Thabeet is playing now.

And that Monroe game against U Conn, I watched it, Monroe got hot from the outside, Thabeet was playing off him so he wouldn't drive that's the chance you take sometimes. Monroe's going to be another skinny power forward if he comes out this year, a 3 yr project at best. I'd hope he'd stay in school another year for his development.

Improving perimeter defense will only happen when guys know there's not a free path to the basket if they give up a drive. You can't play in a shooter's face if you know that if you get fooled on a move he's gone for a dunk.

The Wiz are playing all kinds of help defense and are switching and chasing guys all over the court. That will only change when guys know they've got a big down low that's got their back.

You build defense from the inside out. Thabeet's the best inside defender in this draft. Besides I think Crittenton, Young and Arenas will form a pretty solid three guard rotation next season along with Butler getting some minutes at the two. So I don't really see that as an area of need.

Posted by: flohrtv | February 12, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

I tend to agree with the idea that a low post scorer would help the Wiz a lot. Funny thing is, Etan Thomas filled that role pretty well at Syracuse, but not since.

An Al Jefferson type would definitely free up the offense a bit.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 12, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

DCMANN88; Sounds like you're hatin on Gil I mean what does his accumalation of wealth have to do with his playing ability? and you're right I hadn't heard of any drama concerning he and his new wife or any suicide issues as far as comparing him to the MJ era I was not and never have been an MJ fan, before we moved here to the ATL(2007) I thought the MJ move was more about selling tickets than putting the Wizards on the map, I thought MJ was over the hill and a poor judge of talent and from a GM perspective i was right he butchered the Kwame draft and then He traded Rip Hamilton to Detroit for Mr "Shut IT DOWN"(Jerry Stackhouse) before Gil we had what? Zero if you pardon the punn,Gil and EJ got us to the playoffs after an extended hiatus and as it looks now we maybe in for another long hiatus.

Posted by: dargregmag | February 12, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

There is one person to blame for this mess in more ways than one:

Ernie Grunfeld

We currently have 2 "All-Stars" on our roster and we've eaked out 11 wins at the All-Star Break. You know what that says to me? We have CRAP for players after our first 4 guys. Thanks Ernie for assembling the team.

More than that, even if/when Gliby comes back and is 100% this team is still cannot win a championship.

Ernie is building a team around a quirky immature hybrid guard who knows how to score and do nothing else - the second coming of Steve Francis with less jump and a better 3-ball. And I don't blame Gilby for who he is. I blame Ernie for going all-in on him and his bum knee.

We have $160 million tied up on 2 players who CANNOT DEFEND. And we have NO ONE who can be a reliable go-to guy in the post.

It is NOT possible to win a championship in the NBA this way. Period.

Posted by: p1funk | February 12, 2009 7:10 PM | Report abuse

it is NOT possible to win a championship in the NBA this way. Period.

Posted by: p1funk | February 12, 2009 7:10 PM

True words.

After GB,AJ,CB & BH whata we got?
You can see it every game this year. The other teams have better players off the bench.
You can't win with 4 guys.
You will get a few wins but you'll always come up short in the playoffs.
When all 4 are healthy we can beat anyone.
But if anyone has a bad game or doesn't feel well we lose.
And if one gets hurt what you have is what you got this year.
Yes NY comes in and scores in bunches-----ONCE IN A WHILE.
McGee does too -----ONCE IN A WHILE.
When they are not on their game we stink.
You can't fault AJ & CB they usually play hard for 40+ but 2 never could beat 5.
I think the bench players should all play big minutes every game. Let's see what we got. Could be one of them has game that doesn't show up in practice. Maybe another team will see something we don't and trade for one of them.
Let's do something.
This ain't working.

Posted by: VBFan | February 12, 2009 8:27 PM | Report abuse

huh, where was all this momentum to not sign Arenas and Jamison BEFORE it took place?

I was in that camp. Thought it was too risky for the possible return we might get. But, nobody wanted to get rid of Arenas and Arenas/Jamison were almost a package deal spurred on by Abe Pollin. Afterall, AJ is his favorite player since Unseld, which is almost scary. I even got a good laugh at the "discount" Arenas gave us, which was literally nothing that mattered much. He should give some more back at this point!

Of course, this lead to us having to ditch resigning Mason.

Anyway, when our horses return next season we are definitely right in the middle of the pack in the eastern conference again. All this talk of a prolonged slump is crazy. It does depend on our relative health, which you never know with this franchise.

Blatch, Songalia, and NY I believe will be real solid consistent contributors off the bench. McGuire and McGee and whoever we pick up will be as well although probably on a less consistent basis!

So playoffs next year baby - in Vital voice! Not to say we are going anywere in them, but much more entertainment value than this year is providing!

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 12, 2009 8:32 PM | Report abuse

oh..my two cents on the draft

if we can get Blake, do it!

He reminds me of a Boozer type of player, which is what the franchise has not had in about 30 years. He is unlike anybody currently on the roster. A true power forward with some offensive post moves. Just what we need!

Kal, your spot on again in this thread!

-Rob P

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 12, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone confirm that Abe, who is the owner of Ticketmaster, was directly responsible for the Springsteen ticket scalping issue where tickets were available online for about 2 minutes before buyers were directed to another ticketmaster site where the tickets were jacked up big time?

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/entertainment/Ticketmaster-Investigated-After-Springsteen-Ticket-Snafu.html

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

"huh, where was all this momentum to not sign Arenas and Jamison BEFORE it took place?

I was in that camp. Thought it was too risky for the possible return we might get. But, nobody wanted to get rid of Arenas and Arenas/Jamison were almost a package deal spurred on by Abe Pollin. Afterall, AJ is his favorite player since Unseld, which is almost scary. I even got a good laugh at the "discount" Arenas gave us, which was literally nothing that mattered much. He should give some more back at this point!

Posted by: rphilli721 | February 12, 2009 8:32 PM "

I wasn't just in that camp.

I cleared the forest and pitched all the tents.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 9:07 PM | Report abuse

"There is one person to blame for this mess in more ways than one:

Ernie Grunfeld

We currently have 2 "All-Stars" on our roster and we've eaked out 11 wins at the All-Star Break. You know what that says to me? We have CRAP for players after our first 4 guys. Thanks Ernie for assembling the team.

More than that, even if/when Gliby comes back and is 100% this team is still cannot win a championship.

Ernie is building a team around a quirky immature hybrid guard who knows how to score and do nothing else - the second coming of Steve Francis with less jump and a better 3-ball. And I don't blame Gilby for who he is. I blame Ernie for going all-in on him and his bum knee.

We have $160 million tied up on 2 players who CANNOT DEFEND. And we have NO ONE who can be a reliable go-to guy in the post.

It is NOT possible to win a championship in the NBA this way. Period.

Posted by: p1funk | February 12, 2009 7:10 PM "

This team cannot function as it is now.

If Gilby and BTH return for next season, it's not going to change the fact that it's a team of goofballs and slackers and undisciplined guys with separate agendas.

EG needs to send a message, and that means he needs to cut people and eat contracts. Pull a NY Knicks maneuver where people are benched or sent home or bought out.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

EG needs to send a message, and that means he needs to cut people and eat contracts. Pull a NY Knicks maneuver where people are benched or sent home or bought out.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 9:12 PM

DC_MAN88

you and I may be the only two on here that know Abe will never do what the Knicks did in order to get better.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 12, 2009 9:33 PM | Report abuse

The Knicks haven't bought out any contracts. They've been paying Marbury millions to do nothing all season just like the Wiz have been doing for Arenas. The only people they sat or sent home were guys who were locker room headaches who were disrupting the team or fat loads who couldn't be bothered to get into shape.

The Wizards have got a lot of young kids who haven't figured out yet how to do things in the NBA. That's totally different than the Knicks, who have a team full of veterans who've been around long enough to know better and still don't care. The two teams situations have no thing in common other than the fact that both teams stink.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 10:19 PM | Report abuse

"The Knicks haven't bought out any contracts. They've been paying Marbury millions to do nothing all season just like the Wiz have been doing for Arenas. The only people they sat or sent home were guys who were locker room headaches who were disrupting the team or fat loads who couldn't be bothered to get into shape.

The Wizards have got a lot of young kids who haven't figured out yet how to do things in the NBA. That's totally different than the Knicks, who have a team full of veterans who've been around long enough to know better and still don't care. The two teams situations have no thing in common other than the fact that both teams stink.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 10:19 PM "

Knicks have benched Marbury and Curry, and even sent them home. They were negotiating to buy out Marbury but haven't come to a good number yet.

Blazers have bought out problem child Steve Francis, as have the Grizzlies.

If you have garbage on your team, most proactive teams want to get rid of people, even if it means losing money. Not Les BouleS.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Enough with the uninformed Grunfeld bashing. As for talent after the first 4....

How about McGee and Blatche, who at 20 and 22 look like they might be all-stars by the time they are 24.

Young and McGuire? Who knows, but both have talent and potential.

And Songaila and AD were merely veteran depth...for which they were perfect. But they are terrible as starters that must score.

This has nothing to do with Grunfeld. The team is built around Arenas and cannot be judged without seeing him at 80%+.

Posted by: UltimateFootballNetwork | February 12, 2009 10:45 PM | Report abuse

"Knicks have benched Marbury and Curry, and even sent them home. "

And, as I said, the Wiz don't have any problem children on their roster who come close to paralleling those two. They've got some young players who may need some straightening out. Banishing them accomplishes nothing. Again, different situations entirely.

"They were negotiating to buy out Marbury but haven't come to a good number yet."

They haven't bought him out yet because they were holding on until the absolute last minute in the vain hope that they could trade him. Once that became impossible, then they started negotiating. If they were so intent on "sending a message" money be damned, they would have just cut him before the season started, since they knew from jump that he wasn't part of their plans.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 10:51 PM | Report abuse

"If you have garbage on your team, most proactive teams want to get rid of people, even if it means losing money. "

Bull. If that were true, teams would be cutting unproductive or disruptive players with several years and several million on their contracts left and right. The truth is that very very rarely happens.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 10:53 PM | Report abuse

"And, as I said, the Wiz don't have any problem children on their roster who come close to paralleling those two. They've got some young players who may need some straightening out. Banishing them accomplishes nothing. Again, different situations entirely.

They haven't bought him out yet because they were holding on until the absolute last minute in the vain hope that they could trade him. Once that became impossible, then they started negotiating. If they were so intent on "sending a message" money be damned, they would have just cut him before the season started, since they knew from jump that he wasn't part of their plans.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 10:51 PM "

Oh, do you mean like Andray Blatche who got arrested for soliciting prostitution while a free agent and how did EG deal with that? He rewarded him with a 14 mil contract. BTW, what have people been harping about all season on his blog? Yes, AB's lack of consistent production and questions on where his heart and mind are.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 11:07 PM | Report abuse

"Bull. If that were true, teams would be cutting unproductive or disruptive players with several years and several million on their contracts left and right. The truth is that very very rarely happens.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 12, 2009 10:53 PM "

I just pointed out two teams that have paid Steve Francis to go away.

CWebb got a buyout from the Sixers.

McDyess got a buyout from the Nuggets.

Mourning got a buyout from the Raptors.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 12, 2009 11:16 PM | Report abuse

here is the article of the matchup of thabeet vs. monroe

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/College-Road-Report-UConn-a-Georgetown-3070/

now i qoute "he thoroughly outplayed projected lottery pick Hasheem Thabeet from start to finish on both ends of the floor"

thats a nice way of saying took a duece on thabeet...hahaha...but serously...thabeet is good, but i would take harden, hill, monroe, griffin, over thabeet...

i think a darkhorse maybe jrue holiday...he is a little undersized at 6'3 but they say he should be able to guard both the 1 and 2 in the pros...and he is a point...so if he really can guard the two...i think that would be great...because that would allow him to play a 1 on offense, letting gilbert play shooting guard, and a 2 on defense cause no way gilbert can check a 2

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 12, 2009 11:40 PM | Report abuse

"I just pointed out two teams that have paid Steve Francis to go away.CWebb got a buyout from the Sixers.McDyess got a buyout from the Nuggets.Mourning got a buyout from the Raptors."

Then why haven't the Knicks done the same thing with Marbury and Curry?

Or the Pacers with Tinsley?

I imagine all three of those players hope they will.

Marbury and Curry seem like very different situations from Mourning, a warrior that teams wish could still play at anything like his former level. Webber clearly can't. McDyess was traded to a team he had already indicated he'd never play for again, so his release had to have been planned. Francis --- I really don't know what happened to Steve Francis' game. He went from one of the best to, well...

So you have two end-of-career vets who've merely been hanging on by their teeth and fingernails, and a big man clearly meant to be released and re-signed. That's not paying players to go away. It's just teams acknowledging reality.

With Marbury, Curry, and Tinsley, their respective teams seem bound and determined not to just release them. When you've got the Daily News running back-page spreads of a player sitting on your bench sulking -- now THAT's a liability.

Please, nobody ever hold the Knicks up as a model of good management. For any reason.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 13, 2009 5:10 AM | Report abuse

UFNetwork:

Do you really think Blatche has All-Star potential? In my view, some people need to wake up to the fact that even when focused and in shape, Blatche will never be better than Drew Gooden. No knock on Blatche (or Gooden), he should be a useful NBA journeyman, but even leaving the question of his dedication aside, I doubt he has the skills to take his game much higher. No great hops, no go-to move, not exactly a beast on the boards. Sure it's fun to watch a big man handle the ball well, but then what? I think a lot of people have projected their wishful thinking on him, but I remain unconvinced.

Posted by: mugsybol | February 13, 2009 7:16 AM | Report abuse

This has nothing to do with Grunfeld. The team is built around Arenas and cannot be judged without seeing him at 80%+.

Posted by: UltimateFootballNetwork | February 12, 2009 10:45 PM

The team being built around Arenas has EVERYTHING to do with Grunfeld. Were you here last year??? Do you watch basketball??

We've seen what a team built around Arenas and Jamison can do: be good enough to get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round assuming that everyone stays perfectly healthy.

What team since the Bulls with MJ/Pippen has won a ring being built around a guard and a swing-man?? Not even Kobe or LeBron have been able to deliver a ring without a marquee guy in the post. And we expect Gilbert Arenas to pull that out??

Here's to crossing our fingers that McGee or Blatche is the 2nd coming of Kevin Garnett...does anyone want to bet the house on that?

Posted by: p1funk | February 13, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

Did I read that somebody was trying to knock Blake Griffin because he runs the OK offense? Are you trying to prove why he's so dominant? The guy gets schemed inside-and-out by the opposing defense with the single goal of trying to stop Griffin, and he still dominates on a nightly basis.

And the argument of "Thabeet plays on the #1 team in the country" is pretty much invalid, because Griffin plays on the #2 team in the country, has the same amount of losses as UConn, and neither has played each other.

Griffin is a dominant all-around forward, Thabeet is a dominant defensive center. One of these guys is a centerpiece of a team, the other is a piece that you put around the centerpiece. For a team that is 11-42, I'm sorry, but it's a no-brainer. Griffin is the choice 100 times out of 100. Oh, and Griffin is 2 years younger.

Posted by: psps23 | February 13, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

We've seen what a team built around Arenas and Jamison can do: be good enough to get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round assuming that everyone stays perfectly healthy.

You're referring to a team built around them that had no good supporting defensive players. THAT'S the issue, I think, not AJ or Gil. I can name a bunch of top 50 guys who contributed very little on the defensive side of the ball but had complementary defensive players to help them out... Larry Bird and Doc to name a couple.

I distinctly remember a report (probably Ivan) that stated that EJ used to spend 90% of his time in practice on the offense. An emphasis has never been placed on defense here. To state that Gil will only be able to get us to the 1st or 2nd round is a little unfair, IMO. The same could have been said for MJ. He lost in the first round for 3 straight years in Chicago before breaking through.

I believe that it will be almost impossible to get to a Final with CB and AJ both starting because neither plays defense well. While Gil gets a lot of criticism for not playing defense, we don't know yet whether he can or will because he was never asked to do it under EJ. All I know is that when he decided that he wanted to play D (US Olympic team trials) he looked pretty good doing it.

We also don''t know what this team looks like in the playoffs with BTH playing a full 35+ minutes. I'm pretty sure even 88 and Kal would have PER's above 15 with Ruffin guarding them.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

p1funk, I don't consider Garnett to be a post player. He's a jump shooter. The reigning champs won a ring without a marquee guy in the post unless you consider Kendrick Perkins to be a good player.
Looking at the Lakers last year, Pau was in the post for them and he's not really dominant. He averaged 19 and 8 for the Lakers last year and they made it to the Finals. The Cavs made it pretty far with big Z doing 14 and 9.

I'm just saying that we can win without a dominant center but we need at least one good defensive player on the inside somewhere. BTH might be good enough if given the time but alongside AJ, our sf would also have to be pretty good defensively.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

While Gil gets a lot of criticism for not playing defense, we don't know yet whether he can or will because he was never asked to do it under EJ. All I know is that when he decided that he wanted to play D (US Olympic team trials) he looked pretty good doing it.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 10:17 AM

Are you kidding me? So EJ NEVER asked Gil to play defense on this team?

EJ did ask Gil to play D, and you know what Gil did? He complained to the media that EJ's insistence on focusing on defense was preventing the Wiz from "playing their game". Another one of those great "maturity" moments for Agent Zero...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2763866

Posted by: p1funk | February 13, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

p1funk, Dang, dude. You even have links to back your sh&t up!! LOL

OK. Gil gets a share of the blame, too. I'm not trying to exonerate him but if you look at a lot of the all star or all pro point guards, not many are know for their defense. Nash won 2 MVP's while playing like a turnstile. Tony Parker is notoriously weak defensively, too. I think it's gonna take an interior overhaul to make it work.

Also, didn't we get Ayers after the 2007 season? If so, it wasn't all on the players. Our defensive coaching staff must have been faulty, too.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

From the Sports Illustrated blog about the five teams with bad management. Looks like we aren't the only ones to think the Wiz are being managed badly.

2. Washington Wizards, what were you thinking?

You put $161 million into resigning two players who have shown they’re not going to take your team to the promised land. There is no doubt that Gibert Arenas, if healthy, is a great player and Jamison is a consistent borderline All-Star.

But why on earth would you want to have almost the exact same team you had in the last few years, when they’ve shown they have no potential of winning a championship? Not to mention Gilbert Arenas hasn’t shown he can stay healthy either.


Top 5 Mismanaged NBA Teams of the Last Five Years
Feb 11, 2009 | 9:04PM | report this

The Wizards needed to go in a different direction and start over. They would have had a lot of cap room if they had resisted to re-sign them, but now it looks like the next few years are going to be filled with average basketball.

Posted by: ivyleague | February 13, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I keep going back to my 'ALL Defense' stat. Every champ in the last 20 years but 2 has had a person who excels on defense (all NBA-defensive 1st, 2nd, or 3rd team)

We don't.

We could probably live with AJ and CB or Gil and Aj not playing good D if we had that person. We don't and we can't. It's really that simple.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

To suggest that the Wizards should take Blake Griffin “100 out of 100 times” is plain stupidity. Just the ignorant bliss that Abe must have instilled in you. So I guess you’re satisfied by simply selling tickets and scoring 110 ppg? It is simple intelligence, the reason this team has been bounced from the playoffs 4 straight years, and the reason this team has struggled to leap from the middle of the pack is simple: It’s defense!

I got news for you, PSP. This team is built around Gil, CB, and Caron, for years to come. They all are offensive juggernauts. They do not play D, and the NEED that defensive help in the middle. Yeah, go ahead and draft Blake Griffin. Let’s see where he get’s his minutes. He will need 30-40 mpg to be effective in the NBA. So, suppose he does get his minutes, where will that leave Blatche? We all know AJ will get 40 mpg at the 4 spot. Adding another athletic “score-first” player is not what this team needs. Why can’t you comprehend that? This team does not have problems scoring when healthy. In order to change the attitude around here, they need to bring in a guy who is gritty, and is known for strictly defense and rebounding. It’s not that complicated a matter.

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

I just pointed out two teams that have paid Steve Francis to go away.

CWebb got a buyout from the Sixers.

McDyess got a buyout from the Nuggets.

Mourning got a buyout from the Raptors.

That's 5 times in the last 5 years or so (out of all the teams with overpaid players who either underperform or are locker room headaches). Like I said, very rare.

And the McDyess example doesn't even fit your argument, because he wasn't bought out because he was "garbage" (your word) or a disruption. He was bought out because the Nuggets didn't want to pay the luxury tax.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

"p1funk, I don't consider Garnett to be a post player."

o-mark, you are the only person I have ever met in my life that does not consider Garnett a "post-player". Just b/c a brother has developed a J doesn't mean he's not a post-player.

Does anyone out there want to second o_mark's notion that Garnett is NOT a post-player?

And the reigning champs won last year b/c:
1) They got one of the dominant power forwards of our generation on the squad.

2) Everyone played defense.

These are the 2 areas that are fundamentally-flawed on our Grunfeld-constructed team.

And all of your other points prove my point:

1)Kobe couldn't even get back to the Finals without Pau. AND they didn't win even with Pau - with Bynum this year things might be different.

2)Nash has won 2MVPs and has never been to the finals b/c he the mentality of the Suns was "score, score, score". No team defense. With Gil and AJ, we are the "Suns of the east".

3) Tony Parker mught be the weakest defender on the Spurs, but the Spurs play some of the best team defense in the NBA. You can get away with one weak-link as long as they know their role. And the focal point of that team is Timmy D. You cannot get away with 2 weak links on D (AJ and Gil) AND have them be the focal points of the team.

4)MJ broke through and won many Finals. He was also one of the best defensive players at his position, as was Scotty Pippen. They were not just scorers, they were perennial NBA All-Defensive Team guys at their positions.

Posted by: p1funk | February 13, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

It takes more that "person who excels on defense" to win a title. It takes a coach with a well-designed team defensive philosophy and a team that buys into it wholly. One player (esp. a rookie) isn't going to change a terrible defensive team into a good one.

And Garnett is definitely a post player. he's also a big guy who can hit mid range jumpers. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

The Wizards needed to go in a different direction and start over. They would have had a lot of cap room if they had resisted to re-sign them, but now it looks like the next few years are going to be filled with average basketball.

I'll take average basketball over starting over any day. Starting over (not signing Gil or AJ) means CB would have been the centerpiece.
The crown jewels of last year's FA class were Elton Brand, Jermaine Oneal, Baron Davis, Corey Maggette, Artest, Shawn Marion. We'd be lucky to have 5 wins if you plug one of those guys in AJ's place.

I can understand how, given the way things look right now, ppl are second guessing the decision to re sign AJ and Gil but realistically, it was the right move. We're one GOOD defensive player away from being a serious contender if everyone comes back healthy.
Big IF, I know.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

p1funk,
Garnett is definitely a post player defensively. I just see him shooting a lot of jumpers and don't often see him making moves actually in the post. I conceded that i could be wrong.I hate the Celts so I don't watch them often. I'll check them out and then comment about this again.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

hey cj658 hope u read that article from people who know basketball better than u or I about monroe vs. thabeet....havent heard a peep since i posted that link...hahaha

seriously, r u really trying to justify picking thabeet over griffin, that is just retarded...that woulda been like picking dwight howard over emeka okafor...and look how that woulda turned out...thabeet is a good defensive player...but he is no where near the player okafor was coming out, as far as all around skills...

but seriously dude, after all this, its pretty apparent to me, and i'm sure to other posters, that you dont kno much about basketball...

and your argument about griffin not recieving playing time behind blatche and jamison, well that point is moot because thabeet would be behind mcgee and haywood...

and to further show ur lack of knowledge about the working of the nba...players like haywood arent bought out...players with large contracts who the team considers a "cancer" and the team is better off without their presence, those are players that our bought out...for u to even suggest that haywood be bought out is laughable at best...hahahahaha

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 13, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Just looking at 82games.com, the Celts as a team shoot thusly...

63% jumpers
31% close
5% dunk
1% close

Also, on the same web site you can see the % of shots taken close to the hoop. The Celts pf shoots 36% of his shots close to the hoop.

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809BOS5.HTM

I assume this means Garnett. That's not really what I consider a post player. As a comparison, the Wizards PF shoots the same 36% and we know where AJ likes to camp out.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

"I'll take average basketball over starting over any day. "

It's that attitude that put the Knicks and the pre-Garnett Celtics in the holes they are/were in. The franchise took on a "no rebuilding" edict, figuring they could reconstruct on the fly and avoid tearing it down to the foundation to build it back up. As a result, the whole structure ended up falling in on itself.

I said at the time that I understood the decision not to break up the big three and start rebuilding. But as a matter of due diligence, I think the option should have at least been seriously explored by Grunfeld before dismissing it. I get the distinct impression that he never gave it a moment's thought.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Now if we consider a 8 foot jumper 'the post', then yeah ...Garnett is a post player. Otherwise, i still don't see it.

But I agree wholeheartedly that it takes a village...I mean team to play good D. That's what I've been saying all along. Not only does it take team defense but you have to have at least 1 VERY good defensive player...at least based on the trends.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

What, exactly, is "close to the hoop"? A guy doesn't have to dunk it all the time to be a post player.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

'Now if we consider a 8 foot jumper 'the post', then yeah ...Garnett is a post player. "

Well, there you have it. In pretty much all circles, backing your man down and hitting an 8 foot turnaround jumper over a defender in the lane is, in fact, considered post play.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

"but you have to have at least 1 VERY good defensive player...at least based on the trends.

Those same trends also say you have to have a very good low post player, a very good coach, a very good bench, and a lot of other stuff the Wizards don't have.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

kal,
I think you may be right in that assumption. But...there is some logic to their line of thinking.
I know you're probably tired of hearing about how when all of our guys were healthy we were in first place in the East for a while blah blah blah. I'm sick of hearing it too but it IS true.

It's also true that a lot of teams have been rebuilding for 10 years. When you experience a modicum of success, it's probably better to build on it... particularly when your players are young.

Do you REALLY trust that if we had started over, we would have been able to get it right? I like EG but the draft is a crapshoot. I still think that if we'd made one key move or two we'd be heading in the right direction. I always wanted Ak47 for Aj because of the defense. AK47 is always hurt so it may not have worked out but I'd much rather have he and BTH in there than Aj and BTH.

Don't know.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

What, exactly, is "close to the hoop"? A guy doesn't have to dunk it all the time to be a post player.

Don't know, dude. That is cut and pasted from 82games.

Well, there you have it. In pretty much all circles, backing your man down and hitting an 8 foot turnaround jumper over a defender in the lane is, in fact, considered post play.

Then we have to consider AJ to be a post player based on the numbers. The main difference between he and Garnett then comes down to just defense. HUGE difference.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

“and to further show ur lack of knowledge about the working of the nba...players like haywood arent bought out...players with large contracts who the team considers a "cancer" and the team is better off without their presence, those are players that our bought out...for u to even suggest that haywood be bought out is laughable at best...hahahahaha”

Go back and re-read what I originally wrote (I have had to ask you that a few times, what a surprise). I didn’t implicitly suggest the Wizards “buy out” Haywood. It was just one of many options for getting rid of dead weight. I also said he can be traded. If you are going to quote me, quote the entire thing. And FYI: teams do buy out players who are dead weight and have underachieved their entire career. Who told you teams only buy out players who are “cancers”, did your boy Chad Ford tell you that? Clearly, you are the one who is in a little too much over your head. You say that my argument about Griffin not getting PT behind AJ and AB is a moot point, because Thabeet would be in the same situation behind JM and BTH. But I have suggested numerous times that BTH needs to go, which you clearly read based your dumb a$$ observation above. You still point to the ONE game where Thabeet was bested. What does that prove? Monroe was hitting outside shots, and UConn was in a zone for some of the game. Do you not understand that? I’m starting to wonder about you. But once again, next time Paul Millsap scores 16 points on KG, I’ll be right there with you saying that Millsap “abused” KG. LOL!! Go get some lunch man.

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

"Then we have to consider AJ to be a post player based on the numbers."

Jamison definitely has a post game. But on the whole, he takes a lot more long jumpers (including 3s) than Garnett.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

...not based on 82games, kal. Both teams' PF's shoot 36% from 'close to the hoop'.

dunno.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Jason, And one more thing:

Why wouldn’t Haywood agree to buy out. I’m sure he’d jump at the chance. At this stage in his career, I’m sure he’d rather be with an instant contender. He’d go to a contender, where he’d be a back up, playing a limited role, which is all he really is (a back-up center). He would be a good insurance policy for many contending teams. It’s easily a realistic possibility.

FYI, just a tidbit for you: Tyronn Lue was bought out of his contract last year by the Kings. Yeah, I’m sure he was the ULTIMATE team cancer in Sacramento. LOL!


Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

cj658,
No way BTH goes somewhere else to be a backup. He's never had a real shot at starting for any length of time. I'm sure someone would recognize that he has real value and would offer him a starting spot.

In fact, I can name a ton of teams that would love to have him. Even a team like the Spurs could use him. He's an upgrade over what they have, for sure. He could start for the Celts over Perkins, etc. The list is long, man.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"I know you're probably tired of hearing about how when all of our guys were healthy we were in first place in the East for a while blah blah blah. I'm sick of hearing it too but it IS true."

You're right. I am sick of hearing it, because it doesn't mean anything. They were first place in the East for about a week in the middle of the season. Big whoop. They playoffs traditionally start at the end of the season. That's the only time the standings really matter. There have been teams that held the #1 conference spot at some point in the regular season that ended up at the bottom of the seedings or missing the playoffs entirely.

Everyone knows the old saying "Madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." That perfectly describes the Wizards for the last 4 or 5 years. They've brought back the same core of players only to have the team undermined by a rash of injuries but still manage to fight their way into a playoff spot only to get bounced early. And at the end of every early exit they come out with the "if we can get all our guys healthy we can compete for a title" mantra. But the simple fact is that they haven't ever been able to get all of their guys healthy. Ever. So, maybe, it might have been worth considering getting new guys.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

,i>"Both teams' PF's shoot 36% from 'close to the hoop'. ",/I>

Well, there are any number of obvois problems with that "stat."

First, you keep saying "both team's PFs" and not citing Jamison and Garnett by name, which implies that the numbers reflect the shooting of ALL of both teams PFs, not just those two. That right there invalidates the numbers as a measure of either player individually. There's also the issue of what, exactly, constitutes "close to the hoop." Without knowing what distance scale they're using, that phrase itself has no measurable value.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

...and that is due in part to EJ's insistence on playing the sh%t outta the big 3 and not developing subs.

Gil's injury wasn't because of fatigue but CB and AJ have both broken down and you can't help but attribute some of that to overuse. Even if we got new guys, EJ would have played them for 40 minutes per...or until they got hurt.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

"Both teams' PF's shoot 36% from 'close to the hoop'. "

Well, there are any number of obvois problems with that "stat."

First, you keep saying "both team's PFs" and not citing Jamison and Garnett by name, which implies that the numbers reflect the shooting of ALL of both teams PFs, not just those two. That right there invalidates the numbers as a measure of either player individually. There's also the issue of what, exactly, constitutes "close to the hoop." Without knowing what distance scale they're using, that phrase itself has no measurable value.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

"I got news for you, PSP. This team is built around Gil, CB, and Caron, for years to come.

Posted by: cj658"

And I've got news for you. A team that is built around a PG that has had 3 knee surgeries in 2 years, a 32 year-old face-up power forward with no defensive presence, and a very good, but hardly elite, undersized small forward -- all of whom have not been healthy at the same time in over 2 years -- is NOT one defensive presence away from contending for any sort of title.

So yes, I will take Blake Griffin 100 times out of 100. The only teams that would ever consider not taking Blake Griffin are the teams that already have a dominant, low-post, consistently healthy, and young or in-their-prime PF. The Wizards don't have anything close to that.

Talk about blissful ignorance. Thinking that somehow adding a pure defensive presence with no offensive game would translate into this team being able to contend with a team like the Cavaliers -- a team that has exponentially improved since the last time they beat us when we had a full cast of healthy stars that have collectively declined since that series. You're living in a dream world.

Griffin is more talented, younger, more NBA-ready, more skilled, a better all-around player, plays a position of need, and brings a skillset that nobody on the roster comes even close to having. Why is this even a debate?

Thabeet will be a nice consolation for the lottery teams that don't end up #1. If it happens that way, I would not be upset at the Wizards for drafting him. But he does not measure up to a talent like Griffin.

Posted by: psps23 | February 13, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

KG is a post player and a jump shooting PF. He is the total package! Much like MJ in his first few year wherein he didn't have a consistent J, KG develope to be not just a low post but have the mid range shot in the last few years. And that is why he's one of the top 5 players in the league. And to add that both MJ and KG are very good not only on O but more importantly also in Defense.

Posted by: Dave381 | February 13, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

"In fact, I can name a ton of teams that would love to have him. Even a team like the Spurs could use him. He's an upgrade over what they have, for sure. He could start for the Celts over Perkins, etc. The list is long, man.",/i>

Not really. Given his age and the amount it would take to sign him, it's probably pretty short. The Spurs might have been interested a few years ago, but they seem to have found a pretty good formula with Duncan playing more at C and using Bonner as a shooter to space the floor. And there's no chance the Celtics would play Haywood over Perkins. Why would they? They won a title with Perkins at C, and there's nothing Haywood can do that Perkins doesn't do at least as well.

There will be a market for Haywood and he'll definitely be looking for a starting job, but teams won't be lining up around the block to throw money at him.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Kal, Yeah they don't really break it down. Since AJ plays 52 minutes per game (at least it seems like it), the stats are reflective of his shots mainly.
KG plays only 32 minutes per game (wow that's surprising) so whoever is in as his backup (Powe or Big Baby) affects the pf numbers for them.

No way to really tell, I guess.

Anyway, I think we both agree that we need at least one or 2 decent interior defenders on our team in order to be able to even begin to play good team defense.

Posted by: original_mark | February 13, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

WOWWWWW...breaking news alert, haywood is dead weight!!!....HAHAHAHA...dude u r really dumb...check holligers PER...haywood is actually one of the underrated starting centers in the league...and he does well defensively...we beat the celtics 3 times...but dont forget haywood played some great D on kg...he is a starting center...i mean he's not amazing...but he is more than serviceble...and if u have a haywood coming off ur bench ur in good shape...so how is he dead weight???if anything this season should show u how much he was worth to this team...u r so dumb when u have stuff like this in front of u, u cant comprehend it...how many times has ivan said losing haywood has been a blow to this team...and we are seeing that!

oh and btw...u keep comparing nba players to my college player comparison...u see we dont need to talk about kg, kobe, arenas, millsap...y u ask??? because they r already in the nba...we wont be drafting them...they dont have to prove themselves...y would we make a comparison to kg when we've seen what he can do...but we're trying to figure out if thabeet will be able to do well defensively against nba caliber players...and to determine that we need to see how he matches up with nba caliber players such as monroe, or hill, or griffin...i'm sorry u ride his d@*k so hard u dont wanna evaluate thabeet under these circumstances...but trust that nba scouts are doing the same thing...now lets say tom. thabeet plays griffin, and "thoroughly outplays" him...well then thabeet will move up in my eyes as well as others...so learn some ball before u come on here spitting that dumb stuff...hahaha...dont blame me...if its one game... so what...thats the nature of the beast...if u dont like it...stop watching...

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 13, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I'm not expecting Griffin to be a franchise superstar, but the tangible nature of his game fills a longstanding need for the Wiz. Even if he only puts up a "marginal 14 and 8" he'd still be a massive improvement over the team's current interior offensive production which, aside from the occasional Jamison mismatch down low, is pretty much nil.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"That's 5 times in the last 5 years or so (out of all the teams with overpaid players who either underperform or are locker room headaches). Like I said, very rare.

And the McDyess example doesn't even fit your argument, because he wasn't bought out because he was "garbage" (your word) or a disruption. He was bought out because the Nuggets didn't want to pay the luxury tax.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 11:12 AM "

Nu no....

You said "very very rarely..."

Very very rarely means once in 5 years...not "5 times in the last 5 years."

I only pointed out 5 examples. Someone else pointed out that Tyron Lue got bought out also.

In any regard, EG should buy people out if they don't fit in the team's plans, instead of having garbage on the bench that never gets any PT.

As a smart man (Mike James) once said when he was traded here "one's man's garbage is another man's treasure.." It turns out now that the real term is "garbage in, garbage out." Mike James is losing minutes to Javaris.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 13, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

'Very very rarely means once in 5 years...not "5 times in the last 5 years."

Really? What edition of Webster's did you find that definition in? You talked like "most teams" (again, your words) were cutting guys loose left and right and eating millions of dollars in salary just to "send a message." That is simply, categorically false.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

"In any regard, EG should buy people out if they don't fit in the team's plans, instead of having garbage on the bench that never gets any PT.",/i>

And, again for the people in the cheap seats, teams cannot just unilaterally buy out player contracts. The players have to agree to it. And there's no good financial reason for anyone currently on the Wizards roster to agree to a buyout.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

"Really? What edition of Webster's did you find that definition in? You talked like "most teams" (again, your words) were cutting guys loose left and right and eating millions of dollars in salary just to "send a message." That is simply, categorically false.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:29 PM "

Please.

So how do you define "very very rarely?"

I just cited several examples.

Live with it that you're wrong.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 13, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

"Since AJ plays 52 minutes per game (at least it seems like it), the stats are reflective of his shots mainly."

Songaila and Blatche also play minutes at PF, and the two of them take almost nothing but jumpers from 15 feet and out.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

"And, again for the people in the cheap seats, teams cannot just unilaterally buy out player contracts. The players have to agree to it. And there's no good financial reason for anyone currently on the Wizards roster to agree to a buyout.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:32 PM "

And you be their personal financial planner/agent giving them advice?

Nice to meet you Dave Falk!

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 13, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

"So how do you define "very very rarely?"

Something that averages out to about once a year is a pretty good definition.

"I just cited several examples."

You cited 5 examples out of a league with about 450 players. A tiny percentage of the whole involving a small number of teams, neither of which comes close to falling under the heading of "most teams" (again, your words).

"Live with it that you're wrong."

When I am, I will. Not there yet, sparky. But you might want to consider taking your own advice.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

"And you be their personal financial planner/agent giving them advice?"

Don't need an MBA to know that willing giving up money that you may never get back is a bad idea.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

How about trading Jamison and McGee for someone like Amare and then drafting Hasheem w/ their first round pick. That way, you get a top tier player AND a legit center prospect...

Posted by: merajc86 | February 13, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

"Something that averages out to about once a year is a pretty good definition."

Well, I cited 5 examples. Add another with Tyron Lue and yet another with Antonie Walker and that's more than once/year.

"When I am, I will. Not there yet, sparky. But you might want to consider taking your own advice.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:38 PM ""

Sorry, I'm offering real examples to counter your subjective definitions.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 13, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

I don't know about anyone else but I am really looking forward to the second half to see how bad ETaps can make this team.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 13, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

"Don't need an MBA to know that willing giving up money that you may never get back is a bad idea.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 12:39 PM "

Oh, like when players gamble by opting out early to become unrestricted free agents, which doesn't happen "very very rarely" in the NBA?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 13, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

What the freak does Ernie G do all day? Make a freakin trade already. Your team stinks! It's the worst in all of basketball. What are you holding onto? Trade Jamison and get some pieces. Do something besides waiting 5 years for all your players bones to heal. What is wrong with this guy?

Posted by: dovelevine | February 13, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

I've never seen anything like it. Players like Jamison come to the Wizards and they never leave. Meanwhile Miami trades for Shaq then trades Shaq. Trades for Marion. Then trades Marion. And they get better. But Wizards get planted forever. What is wrong with this franchise besides everything.

Posted by: dovelevine | February 13, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Why in the world would you Jamison and McGee? True, Jamison may not be the best player defensively but you know that you will get at least 10 and 10 night in and night out with him. And McGee, the Wizards would have to be a fool to let him go. As it is, all of the other teams are salivating over him. Give his some time to grow into his body. I see him doing big things in this league and for once I would like to see the Wizards keep someone like him instead of giving him away only to watch him blow up on someone elses team. EX: Hamilton,Webber,Wallace,etc,

Posted by: ivyleague | February 13, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

dovelevine

Unfortunately people in this town still believe once Gil comes back this team can win. Yes, they will win more games than they are now and might even make the playoffs. Abe would be thrilled because the fans would come out to watch (I do not consider it basketball) them score a lot of points? The problem is Abe does not care about winning a championship more than making money. It is all about the bottom line.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 13, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

"Sorry, I'm offering real examples to counter your subjective definitions."

I'm sorry your weak attempts at playing the semantics card don't actually cover up your paper thin excuse for an argument.

"Oh, like when players gamble by opting out early to become unrestricted free agents, which doesn't happen "very very rarely" in the NBA?"

When marquee players with obvious market value (like Arenas and Brand) opt out for more money, it's not really a gamble. Mike James, Etan Thomas, Darius Songaila, or any other "buyout candidate" on the Wiz don't even come close to falling into that category.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

how about these comments from crittenton

"Man, I'm going to be watching tape, studying," said Crittenton, whose playing time has steadily increased since arriving in a trade from Memphis in December. "Got to get better. That's it. Got to come back ready to play better basketball. I know I want to keep getting better."

thats the attitude that will help him succeed...the best of luck to him...and I hope he definitely shows it in the second half

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 13, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

What teams would actively want to trade for Antawn Jamison? I've been thinking about teams that could use a scoring PF this year to be possible title contenders, and came up with this possible list:

-Cavaliers

IMO, they're the team most desperate for a title within the next 2 years, and they're in need of another consistent scoring punch to go along with James. Wouldn't they jump at the chance to grab Jamison?

So I played around with the trade machine and came up with this:

Jamison and Etan Thomas for Varejao, Eric Snow, and JJ Hickson.

That would give the Wizards 2 expiring contracts and a good young prospect that's not really much different in playing style than Jamison. And it would seemingly give the Cavs the extra boost to be true contenders.

Would it be worth it to give up Jamison for basically just the opportunity to start over?

Posted by: psps23 | February 13, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

although he needs to also add shooting a thousand jumpers a day to that list

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 13, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Jason, I hope you don’t look as dumb as you sound. Looks like we have another BTH believer, LOL! I’m sure you’re just one of the fools that hopped on his shorts last year, because he had a decent year. It got to Brendan’s head to, you’re not the only one, don’t feel bad kid. I guess you thought he was “the man” last year for calling out LBJ. Brendan Haywood got so bold, he told LeBron James to "just play basketball." Really? A frontcourt player whose team just got wiped by 20 on the boards in a critical Game 4 is going to tell LeBron James to play basketball? A 7 footer with a 7.5 point and 5.9 rebound career averages whose team is about to get knocked out by the Cavs for a third straight season is going to tell the Cavaliers superstar what to do? Did I mention he played over 30 mins in a critical game 5 last year. But when Brenda, being the seven foot “monster” that he is, fouls out after scoring 6 points( going 1-6 from the field) grabbing 5 rebounds in 31 minutes you realize what a pathetic player he really is. I’m sure you’re just one of the fools that hopped on his shorts last year, because he had a decent year. It got to Brendan’s head to, you’re not the only one, don’t feel bad kid.
PATHETIC. He has had ample opportunity to grow into a legit NBA center, but has failed. There is a reason all of DC was calling him Brenda 2 years ago. He is pure garbage. He has hard hands and a soft heart. I’m done with this argument, he’s gotta go.

And then I hear “some genius” say this, “The players have to agree to it. And there's no good financial reason for anyone currently on the Wizards roster to agree to a buyout.”

Trust and believe, BTH would agree to a buyout in a heartbeat. If the Wiz draft Thabeet, how happy do you think BTH would be?? That would be slap in his face (well deserved), and we all know how he loves to cry and pout. He would probably march to Ernie’s office, and DEMAND a buyout or trade. Believe me, he would be content to leave the Wiz and go to a contender and play a lesser role. Like I said, a 7’0 footer (with one of the longest wingspans in the entire NBA), who averages 7.5 & 5.9 for his career is an utter joke. Sorry to break all your hearts.

And don't worry, I'll get to you, PSP.

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Here is something for all on here asking EG to do a trade. I found this reading a chicago newspaper today. Enjoy
Contrary to reports elsewhere, the Bulls have no interest in taking back Washington center Etan Thomas in a trade for Larry Hughes. The Bulls like Thomas ￯﾿ᄑ just not the extra $2 million kicker to the $7million annual salary he is due by contract if traded. Guard Mike James ($6 million per season) also was rumored to be in the Wizards￯﾿ᄑ package for Hughes, who is due $13.5 million next season.

Posted by: rnorris6 | February 13, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

The Cavaliers would not "jump" to add Jamison. First, they got the extra scoring punch they needed by adding Moe Williams. Second, the Cavs are a defense first team and Jamison doesn't play any. Third, Varajao's defense, rebounding, and toughness is more valuable to them than Jamison's jumper would ever be. Fourth, they're already one of the favorites to win a title, so they wouldn't appear to be in a position where they need to jump at anything. is much

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Anybody think that after LeBron ditches Cleveland for NY that Danny Ferry would consider stepping into his father's old job? Hate to admit it but he's done well in Cleveland surrounding his star with useful sidekicks and he's certainly not afraid to make bold moves. Trade EG for Danny Ferry.

Posted by: mugsybol | February 13, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

“haywood is actually one of the underrated starting centers in the league”

LOL, that MADE my day!!! Man, you really are another usual suspect. I guess I missed the memo that 7.5 pts and 5.9 rebs for a 7 footer is underrated. HAHAHAHA!


“we beat the celtics 3 times...but dont forget haywood played some great D on kg”

Yeah, and the Celts won an NBA title last year. How about the Wizards?? What’s your point, dilbert?


“if anything this season should show u how much he was worth to this team”

LOL, so I guess we can attribute the Wizards woes to the absence of Haywood’s dominating presence in the paint? Yeah, we sure do miss his 7.5 pts and 5.9 rebs. And with him, we were always a top defensive team, cough, cough.


“check holligers PER”, “how many times has ivan said losing haywood has been a blow to this team”, “Chad Ford”

Man, so I guess your one of those guys who believes everything the media tells you. I’m sure Ivan loves you.

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

-Jamison may not be the best player defensively but you know that you will get at least 10 and 10 night in and night out with him. Posted by: ivyleague

What the freak is so great about 10/10 for someone earning that kinda jack. Unfortunately it takes Jamison nearly 20 shots a night to get his 10 points. He completely sucks the life out of the offense and his no defense stance costs the Wiz about 12 points a night. If he's so great, I'm sure someone would want him. Theres a sucker born every minute. Unfortunately Polin has to turn these guys into his personal sons so they can never leave. Unreal.

Posted by: dovelevine | February 13, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

“And I've got news for you. A team that is built around a PG that has had 3 knee surgeries in 2 years, a 32 year-old face-up power forward with no defensive presence, and a very good, but hardly elite, undersized small forward -- all of whom have not been healthy at the same time in over 2 years -- is NOT one defensive presence away from contending for any sort of title.”

I never said that. I simply said drafting a guy like Thabeet would change the culture in DC. I am not saying I agree with the Wizards investments, but they are what they are. We are essentially stuck with them. With 160 mill invested in those 2 guys, there is absolutely no point to invest more money in offense. We need to start investing in DEFENSE-FIRST players to complement the core. It’s quite simple.

“contend with a team like the Cavaliers -- a team that has exponentially improved since the last time they beat us when we had a full cast of healthy stars that have collectively declined since that series”

Just curious, where have our stars declined. In what area(s)? Our healthy stars were Gil, AJ, & CB? Yeah, they’ve been hurt, but in what respect have they declined. There numbers have remained awfully consistent the past 4 years since that series (when healthy). Just because they’ve been hurt, doesn’t mean they have “declined”. And the reason the Cavs beat us has nothing to with them “improving” and us “declining”. That statement is dead wrong. The reason we lost 3 years in a row is defense. Point blank, period. It’s not exactly a hidden in a confidential file in the archives. Gimme a break.

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

"The Cavaliers would not "jump" to add Jamison. First, they got the extra scoring punch they needed by adding Moe Williams. Second, the Cavs are a defense first team and Jamison doesn't play any. Third, Varajao's defense, rebounding, and toughness is more valuable to them than Jamison's jumper would ever be. Fourth, they're already one of the favorites to win a title, so they wouldn't appear to be in a position where they need to jump at anything. is much

Posted by: kalo_rama"

3 out of the 4 things you mentioned are pretty big stretches.

(1) Cleveland is mentioned among the "favorites", but their record against the others mentioned in that category (Boston, LA, Orlando, San Antonio) is currently at 1-4 for the season. Right now they are built to win regular season games by playing consistent, high-intensity basketball. They are not on the level of either of the 4 mentioned above when playing at their highest levels.

(2) Mo Williams has not really been a consistent scorer this year, but if it makes you feel better, I'll add Jamison as the 2nd/3rd scoring option that all the above teams have when healthy (which the Cavs don't).

(3) The statement "Varajao's defense, rebounding, and toughness is more valuable to them than Jamison's jumper would ever be" is absurd, considering Jamison is a better rebounder than Varejao, is just as tough (but clearly not as strong), and is a top 12 scorer in the league. What the Cavs lose in defense from one player they much more than make up for in offense from Jamison.

The only valid argument you made was that Jamison "doesn't play any" defense, and the Cavs are a defensive minded team. But IMO, his defense would look a lot different standing next to Big Z, Ben Wallace, and Lebron James (just like it did last year when he was getting praised for his improvement -- meaning BTH's improvement).

The only reason the Cavs wouldn't jump on that is if their long-term goal of keeping Lebron is greater than their short-term goal of winning a title. There's no shot the Cavs think Varejao gives them a better shot at winning a title this season moreso than Jamison. Trying to argue otherwise is nothing more than the creation of straw arguments.

Posted by: psps23 | February 13, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

"With 160 mill invested in those 2 guys, there is absolutely no point to invest more money in offense."

It's not investing in offense. It's investing in a potential franchise player. On top of that, Griffin would be an improvement on both ends of the court, because he's already a better defender than Jamison at the 4.

"Just because they’ve been hurt, doesn’t mean they have “declined”."

I'm sorry to say, but a guy with 3 knee surgeries in the last 2 years will not be the same player he was prior to those operations. It won't happen. I think he'll still be good, but he won't be nearly as explosive. And Jamison is 32 years old. If he hasn't declined now, he will soon. It's inevitable. That is, unless this team somehow becomes a title contender next season.

"And the reason the Cavs beat us has nothing to with them “improving” and us “declining”."

That's not what I meant. What I meant was that the Cavs beat us when we had our stars healthy, and since that time, they have improved while we have declined. They were better than us then, and now the gap has widened significantly.

The point is that it's almost futile to base everything on Arenas/Jamison/Butler. Now maybe we can get 2 out of the 3 of them to be part of something great, but you're betting long odds to expect Arenas to come back without any rust next season and Jamison to continue playing at this level for another 2-3 years. In that respect, drafting Griffin would be my choice, because the future of the franchise would then be based on Arenas/Butler/Griffin, which has a longer window of opportunity.

Posted by: psps23 | February 13, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

cj658, You're kind of like my pesky little brother when we were kids. He'd go start a fight then when he was getting flailed on he'd run in my direction. And you know big brothers being big brothers I'd bail him out. But every once in a while, I'd just let him get flailed on awhile just so he'd learn to stop it.

Had to agree with you on the Wizards need a defensive minded interior player. Of the top 5 or so guys in the draft, Thabeet would be the best interior defender.

Taking him over Griffin? I wouldn't go that far, I'd maybe take Griffin and trade for a nice package if I was Ernie. If the Wiz got the #1 pick, I'd dangle Griffin for OKC's number 1 and one of the 2 extra first round picks later in the 1st round. I also would ask them to take Etan Thomas for Collisan a tough interior defender and a good rebounder. But I wouldn't take Thabeet over Griffin straight up.

If the Wiz pick Thabeet I'd never give up Haywood prior to next season. At this point to expect Thabeet to come in and start on day one with McGee as his primary backup would be foolish, when Haywood's available and buying him out doesn't save cap room next year.

Haywood is the kind of guy that you'd want Thabeet to be dueling with in practice on a daily basis. A good big man coach would use the vet to speed his development. Let the two of them push each other, along with McGee.

I'd love to see a tough minded defensive coach have that kind of depth to work with at the 4 & the 5 for a change. The Wizards have BADLY missed Haywood in the paint. And the last couple of weeks they've badly missed Blatche too. Look at the points per game since Blatche went out. For all the guys talking about Blatche's indiferent play, the guy's done a decent job at center even though he's out of position.

For all the talk about McGee, he's not ready to be at the 5 defensively. But I'd rather see him take his lumps then to play Songaila or Jamison there the rest of the year.

All of this debating assumes the number one pick, Griffin maybe gone until the Wizards pick. I'm looking at what I think to be the top 5 guys and how they'll fit for the Wiz or if Grunfeld should trade out for a vet.

If Thabeet's there I'd pick him. If the Wiz are number 1 I'd trade down if the value is there and take Thabeet.

Now the rest of you guys can go back to flailing...

Posted by: flohrtv | February 13, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

On a change of subject, looks like the heat are preparing for a stretch run. Now I really think the Wiz will make a move before the deadline. This may have broke the ice.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9217394/Reports:-Raptors-trade-O'Neal-to-Heat-for-Marion?MSNHPHMA

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"The statement "Varajao's defense, rebounding, and toughness is more valuable to them than Jamison's jumper would ever be" is absurd, considering Jamison is a better rebounder than Varejao, is just as tough (but clearly not as strong)"

Wrong. Jamison is an undersized PF, Varajao plays mostly at C. Trading Varejao would mean more minutes for Ilgauskas (who' already missed 16 games) and would make Jamison their backup C by default. We've seen how well that works.

"What the Cavs lose in defense from one player they much more than make up for in offense from Jamison."

Nonsense. The primary reason they've improved as much as they have over the past couple of years has been the emphasis on defense, and Varejao is a huge part of that. Teams that trade defense for offense don't, as a matter of rule, improve their chances at winning a title.

"Mo Williams has not really been a consistent scorer this year, but if it makes you feel better, I'll add Jamison as the 2nd/3rd scoring option that all the above teams have when healthy (which the Cavs don't)."

Sure, if by "consistent" you mean he hasn't scored the exact same number of points in every single game. Because by any other reasonable, realistic definition of the term, he's been very consistent. He's their second leading scorer, he's shooting a high percentage overall (just under 47%, damn good for a smallish jumpshooting guard, to say nothing off better than Jamison) and from 3 (40%), and has scored in double figures in all but 9 of the 51 games he's played. But, y'know, aside from all that, he's been woefully inconsistent.

As for the Cavs not having a 3rd scoring option when healthy: Does the name Zydrunas Ilgauskas ring any bells?

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

cj658

Just because Mickey Arison (Miami owner worth 5.8 billion) lets Pat Riley make deals that could possibly win them a championship, does not mean Abe will do the same. You are comparing a losing organization (Wizards) to a winning organization (Heat).

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 13, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and the reason I'm not thinking guard so much, even though the Wiz have been terrible in the back court.

Crittenton is really starting to impress me, the guy's got a good handle and seems smart AND hungry. His defense is probably the best in the Wizards backcourt. He's in a place where he's wanted and not buried until a trade comes up.

From day one he wasn't in the plans at Memphis. That's tough to take when you're a young guy. He will be on the court shooting everyday. Gil may loose some of his ability to dominate over an entire game. Guys like the Pearl learned to play in spurts after knee trouble. Crit can carry a lot of the heavy load, defending the toughest guard, getting the ball up the court, and setting the offense.

Gil can play off the ball some like he did with Daniels mostly in the 4 th quarter. Gil can also swing back to the point and play with Young or Butler.

If the Wiz take either Griffin, Thabeet or even Jordan Hill, Jamison and possibly Blatche could get some time at the three forcing a partial move of Butler to the 2.

I think Ernie has dictated the experiment of Butler at the 2 this year in light of the top of the draft and the Wizards other personel. McGuire is starting this year and could struggle for time next year.

But longterm I still really like McGuire, if his offensive game continues to develop he could be a real find.

Stevenson and James could really be odd men out in the backcourt next year. The Wiz will need Dixon's slot to sign their #1 pick, so he'll be gone.

Posted by: flohrtv | February 13, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

PSP, Flohr, good points. Both of you, really. You ALMOST had me convinced to take Griffin. PSP, it’s valid argument, and you seem pretty confident about Griffin. I’ll bite for now, and say that Griffin wouldn’t be a bad pick. I like him, I really do.

But the way I see it, this is a big man’s league. I honestly see Blake Griffin panning out to be a another Amare, and that’s being optimistic. I just don’t think that’s what the Wiz need, given the current state of the union. I think Blake will thrive better in an environment with a true PG, much like Amare and Nash. Look at David West, I never thought he’d be this good in the NBA, but he plays with Chris Paul. Griffin needs to go to a team with a Nash, Paul, Williams, etc. I just don’t see him fitting in the Wizards system. Again, I want to reiterate, that I would not be “mad” if we took Griffin. I just see a 7’3 265lb center, who is a defensive force, playing in the best conference in the country, for the best team in the country (FYI, the Big 12 doesn’t even compare to the Big East). Like I said, the Center position is the toughest to come by. True centers who can play D are a rare breed. I see SO MUCH room for improvement/potential with Thabeet. He has improved every year at UConn, significantly. His frame is naturally solid, and I can easily see him adding 10 lbs of bulk. That’s all he really needs. Calhoun has frequently said that he is the reason they are #1, and Boeheim has said he is the best center the Big East has seen in quite some time. All I’m saying is, these legends are not saying that for their health. Again, given the current state of affairs, I still feel he is the guy for the Wiz.

On a side note, J Dyson is out for awhile. I think more buden will fall on Thabeet and company. They will REALLY have to rely on defense now. Let’s see if they tank without there 2nd leading scorer. It will be interesting.

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Trying to argue otherwise is nothing more than the creation of straw arguments."

You mean like arguing that a guy who shoots 47% from the field, 40% from 3, 93% from the FT line, and has scored in double figures in 82% of the games he's played in is inconsistent on offense?

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

how much longer is ernie grunfeld going to 'stand pat'. If they have essentially the same team next year i'm going to poop. Gilbert is nasty. Do you guys forget that? Wiz just need to pray he will be the same player he used to be. And then hopefully get blake griffin. TRADE JAMISON. please. dude plays no defense and has an off-shooting night every other game. Caron, Griffin, Haywood, NY, Gilbert. mcgee, mcguire, songaila, ds (if no trade), crittendon, blatche off bench. decent team.

Posted by: mepalmeryoshi | February 13, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

"cj658

Just because Mickey Arison (Miami owner worth 5.8 billion) lets Pat Riley make deals that could possibly win them a championship, does not mean Abe will do the same. You are comparing a losing organization (Wizards) to a winning organization (Heat)."

Bulletsfan78:

I know, just wishful thinking. But at the same time, Abe/EG need to do something to at least keep fans "remotely" interested after the all-star break. If they make a move, it will at least give fans the notion that they are at least trying, and are aware of the dreadful situation.

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

cj658

what makes you think they care about the fans?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 13, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure, and it really doesn't matter. But fans = revenue = money.

And I know Abe cares about that

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

BulletsFan78, think of it this way:

The Wiz have 3 EXPENSIVE contracts, a horrible record, and declining attendance. It’s not far-fetched that EG is looking around for cost-cutting deals at the trade deadline. I think it makes the most sense to trade AJ, but his contract makes that tough. I honestly can see Caron getting traded. Facts are facts, and Wiz are desperate to shed salary and his deal is far easier for another team to swallow than the longer-term deals of Antawn Jamison or Gilbert Arenas.

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

"Wrong. Jamison is an undersized PF, Varajao plays mostly at C. Trading Varejao would mean more minutes for Ilgauskas (who' already missed 16 games) and would make Jamison their backup C by default. We've seen how well that works."

Ben Wallace would clearly be ahead of Jamison as the backup in that regard (especially if you penciled Jamison as the starting PF). On top of that, the other half of the trade involved Etan Thomas, who if you were to attempt to point out any "strengths", they would be toughness, scrappiness, and interior strength on defense (although I will admit that he would hardly play for them).

"Teams that trade defense for offense don't, as a matter of rule, improve their chances at winning a title."

I'm not really sure I've ever seen that anywhere. Aside from that, Varejao is far from an elite defender (although he is good), while Jamison is surely an all-star caliber offensive threat. It's not an even defense for offense trade, so that "rule" isn't taking into account all the factors. Do you think the Cavs would blink an eye if they had the opportunity to get Amare for Varejao? Same principle.

"But, y'know, aside from all that, he's been woefully inconsistent."

I never said woefully inconsistent. Regardless, I conceded that part of the argument, giving Williams the benefit of the doubt.

"As for the Cavs not having a 3rd scoring option when healthy: Does the name Zydrunas Ilgauskas ring any bells?"

Ilgauskas is decent, but I wouldn't want to rely on him as a 3rd option for a contending team. As of right now, among all those teams, Cleveland has the lowest scoring 2nd option (Williams) and the lowest scoring 3rd option (Ilgauskas). Orlando has 4 players that score more points than Ilgauskas. Jamison would absolutely give them a boost, IMO. Even if he was brought on as a 6th man (which I think he would do if it gave him the chance to win a title), he would be great for them.

Posted by: psps23 | February 13, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

THABEET's the man if he's coming out. Hey spies of the WIZARDS. How's the tampering going? Is he gonna' declare early.

And for those of you who think THOMAS has trade value - ever had YOUR chest cracked? No value - none. Playing in the NBA - can't be done. How's that been going this season? Forget it, especially with that unexpired contract.

DIXON is D.C.'s only breathing room for next year unless there is serious money broadcast upon the waters.

Ole' ABE is in a real financial morass, and trading THE pick and BUTLER appears to be the only two assets others would be interested in having. Frankly, he's the only one I'd keep. He, McGUIRE, and McGEE. Marginally, maybe HAYWOOD, BLATCHE, SONGAILA, YOUNG and the CRITTER.

Hey, there's a starting five - McGEE, BLATCHE, McGUIRE, BUTLER and CRITTENTON.

And a start walking five - THOMAS, PECHEROV, JAMISON, DIXON and JAMES. Oh that they could or would.

Finally, ARENAS. He's in a class by himself. Should I stay or should I go? Quick, somebody pour me a drink. MAKERS MARK on the rocks please.

Posted by: glawrence007 | February 13, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

"Varejao is far from an elite defender (although he is good), while Jamison is surely an all-star caliber offensive threat."

Never said Varejao was an "elite" defender. I simply said he's considerably better than Jamison, Which he is. And the list of "all-star caliber offensive threats" who've never come close to sniffing a title is quite long (including some instances of two or three of them on the same team).

"Ben Wallace would clearly be ahead of Jamison as the backup in that regard (especially if you penciled Jamison as the starting PF). On top of that, the other half of the trade involved Etan Thomas, who if you were to attempt to point out any "strengths", they would be toughness, scrappiness, and interior strength on defense (although I will admit that he would hardly play for them)

Wallace has been playing limited minutes in part because he's an offensive liability and in part because Varajeo's been as or more effective. Removing Varajeo from the equation and playing Ben Wallace more would actually undermine their overall offense (because while Varajao is in no way a go-to offensive player, he's an effective "garbage man" on offense, while Wallace is a complete nonentity offensively), even with addition of Jamison, while weakening their overall defense by adding Jamison. Also, Jamison is a volume scorer. It's not likely he'd get enough shots behind James and Williams to put up big difference making numbers.

"Ilgauskas is decent, but I wouldn't want to rely on him as a 3rd option for a contending team. "

Yet the Cavs are relying on him and they are contenders.

"Orlando has 4 players that score more points than Ilgauskas. "

And yet most people have Cleveland ahead of Orlando when it comes to chances of winning a title this year.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Slick Nick, McGee and Critt. That's it. Those are the keepers. Make every1 else available. Time to break this joke up.

Posted by: dovelevine | February 13, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

"I'm sorry your weak attempts at playing the semantics card don't actually cover up your paper thin excuse for an argument."

LOL!

You and your subjective statements are so weak..it's laughable.

I don't play with semantics, that's your claim to fame. I give you specific examples to back my arguments, unlike you.

"When marquee players with obvious market value (like Arenas and Brand) opt out for more money, it's not really a gamble. Mike James, Etan Thomas, Darius Songaila, or any other "buyout candidate" on the Wiz don't even come close to falling into that category.


Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 1:42 PM "

Another typical caveat to your weak arguments. First you take a position, then you backtrack. Nothing new here.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 13, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/luke_winn/02/12/power.rankings/index.html

Hmmmm, looks like a lot of people are jumpling on the bandwagon.

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

"And the list of "all-star caliber offensive threats" who've never come close to sniffing a title is quite long (including some instances of two or three of them on the same team)."

As is the list of solid/good defensive presences.

"Yet the Cavs are relying on him and they are contenders."

That doesn't make it desirable, nor does it mean that it can't be improved.

"And yet most people have Cleveland ahead of Orlando when it comes to chances of winning a title this year."

That's because most people are infatuated with Lebron James. And it's a good thing "most people" don't decide who wins a title. The only way I would agree with that is if Jameer Nelson isn't able to come back this year (which may be the case). It's my strong opinion that a healthy Cavs team is a step lower than the other 4 mentioned. I might even put a healthy Nuggets team ahead of the Cavs at this point. To me, the Cavs are built to win by overpowering weaker opponents in the regular season by consistently using overwhelming intensity. But when teams match their intensity in the playoffs, I don't think they're better than the 4 (possibly 5) teams I mentioned earlier.

It's clear we aren't going to agree on this point. So, as they say, agree to disagree.

Posted by: psps23 | February 13, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

being the seven foot “monster” that he is

first off who said he was a monster...who are u qouting...like i said...he is a more than servicable big man...look i aint sayin that he's a great player...maybe u would better understand if i compared a guy who i think is of similar caliber...i would actually give haywood the edge over this guy...and that is kendrick perkins...oh btw he starts for the championship squad...u wanna talk about career averages...who cares...he cant score...whats ur point...do u really think thabeet is going to score more than haywood...his offense is worse than etans...he cant even make layups...hahaha...defensively he has more potential, but thats it...haywood is a good interior defender...and anyone who covers the nba will tell you that u fool...if he was on a good team, his defensive effect would be much more known...listen u can draft thabeet but thats not going to help our defense...it isnt that haywoods defense is bad that causes our problems...but our stars, gilbert AJ and most of the times caron, continuously get beat by their man...which haywood has to cover up for...btw there was an article a year ago on espn that suggested the reason haywood doesnt get more rebounds is because he is always out of position to erase the defensive mistakes of his perimeter players...i mean this whole team has to buy into team defense...its not thabeet that will turn our tides...

now u have no idea how the nba works...its hilarious..."he will demand a buyout" hahaha...he may demand a trade...he cant demand a buyout...unless he would take less money for it, which he has no reason to...look at all the injuries we've had that have left our interior depleted...now u tell me smart ass y we would buy out a capable, even if he only has career averages of 7 and 5 as u like to harp on because u ride thabeet...y would we get rid of him, at a cost to us...it would be one thing if this were football and we could cut him...and save money...think about cost vs. opportunity...i mean buy him out for 5 million...which would count against our cap anyways and be left without a capable 7 footer...

like i said i'm not saying haywood is amazing...i would take say a camby, yao, kaman, bynum, oden, horford, dwight, okafor, dalembert etc...all over haywood...but to point to his career average and not recognize that he is a good defensive player just shows your stupidity...and then to further it...no one here is saying thabeet is a bum...i will say time again...thabeet is a good player...if i was pick 5 through 10 and i got him, i would be ecstatic...but u ride his nuts so hard u actually think we should pick him with a number one pick...i mean come on dude...i suggest u subscribe to the nba pack with ur tv subscriber and watch as much ball as u can...so u can have a meaningful convo on this blog...hahaha

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 13, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

and also notice i'm not looking at every college player thabeet has played to see call him out on every bad game...there is only one game that to me means something...a good player monroe, vs. him...and its clear that i would take monroe over thabeet, all things equal...

just out of curiousity...all things equal...what would be your big board...of course u would have ur boyfriend thabeet on top...hahahaha...and i'm not talkin bout bed neither...hahaa

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 13, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Oh no, he's at it again.

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Boy, you got me on that. Yeah, Thabeet is my boyfriend. I’m gonna send him a valentine. How did you know?

How old are you? Like 14. Save the jokes for when 7th period ends, sparky.

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

1.Thabeet
2.Griffin
3.Jennings
4.Rubio
5.Hill
6.Mullens
7.Harden
8.Teague
9.Curry
10.Evans

Posted by: cj658 | February 13, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

hahaha...i'm just havin fun baby...r u gettin upset? i'm sorry...hahahaha...who is whining like a 15 year old...

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 13, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

ur board definitely is very different from that of the experts...but i can respect it...but i would def. have monroe in that top ten...and harden higher...and i would def. have rubio over jennings...and of course thabeet...well i dont have to get into that...but yeah

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 13, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

"As is the list of solid/good defensive presences."

Except I'm not singling out Varejao as the key to their winning a title. I'm pointing out that the key to the Cavs success so far has been their overall team defense and that Varejao is a key component of that. Removing him significantly alters the balance of what's already made them as successful as they've been. You're claiming that Jamison's "all-star offense" will single-handedly put them over the top. There's a pretty clear difference.

"That doesn't make it desirable, nor does it mean that it can't be improved."

But it does make an argument pinned on the assumption that they're in immediate need of change rather invalid.

"That's because most people are infatuated with Lebron James."

yeah, well being one of the two or three best players on the planet will do that for you.

" And it's a good thing "most people" don't decide who wins a title."

Last I checked, neither do you. However, most of the “people” touting the Cavs chances (career sports journalists, commentators, coaches, former coaches, former players) have more credibility on the issue than you do.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

”I don't play with semantics, that's your claim to fame. “

Says the “man” whose only counter to my refutation of his point was to try (unsuccessfully) to split hairs about the difference between “very rare” and "very, very rare.” Please.

I give you specific examples to back my arguments, unlike you. “

Actually, you gave specific examples to back MY argument. You claimed that “most teams” (again, your words) were willing to cut loose players with big guaranteed contracts to “send a message” (again, your words) then gave a paltry half-dozen examples that occurred over about half a decade, some of which failed to even meet your own criteria of teams ditching players because they were “garbage” (again, your words). The only message sent by some of the deals made in your own examples was that teams wanted to save money, not that they were willing to burn it just to make a point.

”Another typical caveat to your weak arguments. First you take a position, then you backtrack. Nothing new here.”

If by “nothing new here” you mean you making personal asides while failing to address an obvious deconstruction of your argument? Sure, nothing new there at all. If you’re talking about my argument ... wrong again. I said (quoting): “Don't need an MBA to know that willing giving up money that you may never get back is a bad idea.” That quite clearly doesn’t apply to Brand or Arenas, because they knew they’d make that money up on the FA market. There was never any question about it. Mike James and Darius Songaila, however, have no such guarantees.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 13, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Ivan,
Can you explain the purpose of trading to bring Larry Hughes back to Washington?
I know Mike James and Etan are not part of the future here, but if you bring Hughes and his 13.6 mil contract for '09 back in return all this accomplishes is less playing time for NY this season and next.

Are the Wiz giving up on Nick?

MJ and ET both expire after '09 anyway. What's the point of trading the value of expiring contracts for two players for the expiring contract of one?

Are they really trying to win games this year? Why, to avoid the embarassment of landing a top pick they cannot sign for fear of the luxury tax?

The value of expiring contracts is that they allow you to get good players in their prime in exchange for cap relief. That's how The Lakers wound up with Gasol for Kwame.

What are the Wiz brain trust thinking?

Posted by: bozomoeman | February 13, 2009 7:04 PM | Report abuse

"Says the “man” whose only counter to my refutation of his point was to try (unsuccessfully) to split hairs about the difference between “very rare” and "very, very rare.” Please."

It's funny how you like to go off on a tangent with the argument in hopes of people losing sight that you are dead wrong.

You said that buy outs are a "very very rare" occurrence.

I then pointed out 7 examples over the past 5 years.

Then now you won't shut up while you try to backtrack in your statements by spinning it off to various caveats and situations. Ridiculous bordering on asinine.

Then, you talk about not needing an MBA to leave money on the table when it happens all the time in the NBA. Ridiculous!

Don't make blanket statements (eg. Don't need an MBA to know that willing giving up money that you may never get back is a bad idea) next time and then try to erase them by coming up with examples (eg. Gilby and Brand) that refute your very own brilliant initial statement.

It makes you look silly!

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 13, 2009 9:33 PM | Report abuse

bozomoeman:

Not - thinking. Worst financial management I've ever seen.

Posted by: glawrence007 | February 13, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Kevin Durant scored 46 or 47 during rookie sophomore challenge. (Highest scoring record ever, MVP). Beasley highest score on the rookies - 29. Wish we had some of our DC talent on the wizards.

Posted by: washwiz | February 13, 2009 11:24 PM | Report abuse

washwiz: "Kevin Durant scored 46 or 47 during rookie sophomore challenge. (Highest scoring record ever, MVP). Beasley highest score on the rookies - 29. Wish we had some of our DC talent on the wizards."

Wish we had some of our DC talent on the Terps.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 14, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Wish we had some of our DC talent on the Terps.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 14, 2009 8:27 AM

As a Terp, I agree.

But I must say; for all the whining I've done over the past few years about the UM talent, I have a new-found respect for Gary Williams after reading the Post's recent 3-part series on the program.

If I were him, I would not want to kiss-butt and give out jobs to some of these street-hustler AAU coaches either.

And Jim Calhoun is a disgrace with the whole Rudy Gay thing. Calhoun may not have broken the "letter" of the law, but he sure dropped his pants and took a dump all over the "spirit" of it.

Posted by: p1funk | February 14, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

it looks like even Ivan has given up on the Wizards

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 14, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

no ALL STAR updates ......

Posted by: jeremydvid | February 14, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

p1funk wrote: "If I were him, I would not want to kiss-butt and give out jobs to some of these street-hustler AAU coaches either."

Too true. But how do the good guys -- I mean Duke, UNC, Georgetown, UCLA, Stanford, that ilk -- manage it? They just get down and dirty like the rest?

Posted by: Samson151 | February 14, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

25 pts, 20 rebs, 9 blocks. That's all I have to say. Check out the post game quotes, specifically from the Seton Hall side.

Posted by: cj658 | February 14, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Very good athleticism/hops...who knew?

But, David Lee also won the same contest, and he's definitely not Mr. Vertical now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPzYqv3H3mE

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 14, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse


25 pts, 20 rebs, 9 blocks. That's all I have to say. Check out the post game quotes, specifically from the Seton Hall side.

Posted by: cj658 | February 14, 2009 5:32 PM

thats pretty good...i just wonder what you would consider 40 points and 23 rebounds?

yeah thats what griffin put up, insane....

Posted by: jasonma1 | February 14, 2009 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Griffin is WHAT's UP. A.I got a HAIRCUT!

Posted by: jeremydvid | February 14, 2009 8:37 PM | Report abuse

What's the most replies to a single post by Ivan????

Is this a record???

Posted by: VBFan | February 14, 2009 9:18 PM | Report abuse

Griffin is WHAT's UP. A.I got a HAIRCUT!

Posted by: jeremydvid | February 14, 2009 8:37 PM


So what? Everybody got a HAIRCUT..nothing new

Posted by: forbid | February 15, 2009 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Check out Digger Phelps comments about Thabeet from Sports Center,"The Bill Russell of our times."

I wouldn't go nearly that far, but he's put up some stretch of games.

Me, I wouldn't start throwing Russell's name around til Thabeet puts up 7 or 8 titles. But it's really interesting to here a veteran college guy like Digger's opinion of Thabeet.

Posted by: flohrtv | February 15, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

...a trade of ET and MJames for Larry Hughes makes sense for the Wiz. ET adds nothing on the court or in the locker room to the Wiz. Mike James is just a one year rental taking playing time from those on the Wiz who need it. LH loves to play for the Wiz (how many NBA players can you say that about?) and can play some point as well as the two, until GA comes back. LH is a good defender when he wants to, so maybe NY can learn a thing or two. LH can hit the 3 consistently...something lacking since RM left. And he will not be that hard to resign, as no other team will make him a serious offer in a year and a half. If EG can find a way to move the Poet this season...it is time to pull the trigger.

Posted by: oddjob2 | February 15, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

...the question remains, is it better to bring in a new coach at some point during the second half of the season so he can start implementing his new system as soon as possible--or wait until the end of the season and start fresh? Is money (EJ's buyout) really the issue, or is Abe willing to do what is best for the team in this regard?

Posted by: oddjob2 | February 15, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

oddjob: "...the question remains, is it better to bring in a new coach at some point during the second half of the season so he can start implementing his new system as soon as possible--or wait until the end of the season and start fresh?"

My thought is -- no question, best to do during the offseason. Three reasons:

a) if the new guy does want to make changes, then during the season is the absolute worst time to do it, because there's so little practice time. In-season practice in the modern NBA amounts to little more than walkthroughs and shootarounds. That's why they had to start the D-League -- so they could develop younger players beyond camp.

b) because of (a), camp is more important than ever. Both for evaluating young guys, and mostly for trying out new offensive sets and defensive schemes.

c) Any new coach wants to be involved as much as possible in selecting the squad, and in the draft. Be stupid not to. You're going to be responsible for the outcome, so you want to control the process.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 15, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Oops, forgot the most important consideration (which has brought up by others on this board): the guy you want may not be available until season's end....

So that's what I am told are the major reasons for hiring an interim if and when you fire somebody during a season. If the interim (usually an assistant on the current squad) turns out to be a tiger, then you have the option of keeping him as head coach. But if he doesn't, then no hard feelings -- he can move on or go back to the assistant role, provided the new guy wants him.

By this model, what Grunfeld did with Ed Jordan was exactly the wrong thing. He went through an entire off-season and camp with Jordan, only to fire him a dozen games into the next season. That made it more than likely the season would be 'lost'. He should have 1) fired Jordan at the end of the previous season, or 2) let Jordan get near season's end before firing him and installing an interim like Tapscott.

Makes you think Grunfeld needed that 1-10 start to justify the firing over Abe's objections, and then chose Tapscott because there's someone he really wants who won't be available til May or so, and if he'd appointed one of the assistants, the guy might have gathered fan support for keeping the job...

Starts to sound like a Bourne movie, doesn't it?

Posted by: Samson151 | February 15, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Samson151, you hit the nail on the head.

I've made the point before that Grunfeld/Jordan was an arranged marriage by Pollin, in which neither side was comfortable in the relationship. By hiring a coach first then a GM, he totally inverted the way the process normally (and logically) is supposed to work, creating inter-office tension tgat undermined the organization at a base level.

I have no doubt that firing Jordan and bringing in his own guy has been on Grunfeld's to-do list for a good while, but Jordan's failure to play along by continuing to persevere and win games even in the face of adversity basically tied Grunfeld's hands.

There was a bit of drama over the summer about whether Grunfeld would pick up the option year on Jordan's deal. My bet is that Jordan guiding the team to a winning season and a playoff spot despite missing Arenas and Thomas for the whole year (and Butler for almost third of it) pretty much forced Grunfeld's hand. He had no choice but the pick up the option, because firing a coach after he did the job Jordan did would have look bad in way the organization wanted to avoid. The 1-11 start finally gave Grunfeld a reason to fire Jordan that he could justify in public, and he wasn't about to miss that opportunity.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 15, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

All I can say is, Dick Cheney would be proud of Ernie.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 15, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Was very impressed by Thabeet's road dominance (20, 20 rebounds, and 9 blocks) against Seton Hall the other day, but couldn't help noticing the opposing center, a 6'9" senior, managed to get 22 points, 13 rebounds, and 6 blocks in 5 fewer minutes. So wasn't anybody stopping anybody that game? Seton Hall's a good team, but they're only 14-10 and 5-7 in the conference, neither of which will get them into the NCAA tournament.

Blake Griffin's big game (40 points, 23 rebounds) in only 31 minutes, came at home against a mediocre Texas Tech club (12-13, 2-8 Big 12) that dared to play him in single coverage.

I guess my feeling is that neither performance was that overwhelming. If Griffin or Thabeet does something comparable against top competition, I'm not upgrading either one to 'sure thing' status in the NBA.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 15, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, meant 'until' instead of 'if'.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 15, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: pdarroch | February 15, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, paddaroch, a really interesting article.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 15, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

http://imchevychaseandyourenot.blogspot.com/
please read this-- and give me any feedback. Blake Griffin '09?

Posted by: Heo3692 | February 15, 2009 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Did not see it posted on here so i thought i would remind you all to watch comcast sports net after the wizard game on tuesday night because they said they are going to have a in depth interview with ex coach eddie jordan. Supposed to talk about behind the scenes info on his firing and about gilbert arenas so might be interesting to watch

Posted by: rnorris6 | February 15, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

just turned on the all star game, where is AJ and CB?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 15, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

they did not get voted to the all star team so they stayed in washington

Posted by: rnorris6 | February 15, 2009 9:01 PM | Report abuse

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?pagewanted=1&em

Posted by: pdarroch | February 15, 2009 3:20 PM

Good basketball story.

Posted by: VBFan | February 15, 2009 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 15, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

I see no relavance to sports or the wizards just a stupid story about some rapper

Posted by: rnorris6 | February 15, 2009 10:22 PM | Report abuse

"I see no relavance to sports or the wizards just a stupid story about some rapper

Posted by: rnorris6 | February 15, 2009 10:22 PM "

He's MeShawn's boy.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 15, 2009 11:05 PM | Report abuse

the second half of the season starts Tuesday the over/under for wins should be 8!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | February 16, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

How many games left? Too many for my taste and to think I paid for the NBA games through Dir.TV just so I could see my "boyz" and EG ruins it by firing EJ, oh well I can always watch the Hawks and the Magic. There's talk that Terry Porter is gonna get "whacked" no later than Tuesday and its being reported that Steve Kerr will take over as coach for the remainder of the season,yeah that will be fun I'm sure. I've read with interest all the post concerning the upcomming draft on this blog in my humble opinion i hope Griffin continues to put up strong numbers,like i've said i would love to see Durant in a Wizards uniform and if the Wizards win the ping pong ball championship then Griffin/Jamison/Young or Stevenson, for the "Young Fella"(Durant)Griffin being a Sooner would be a natural fit for the fan base in Oaklahoma and with Jamison would form an interesting if not dynamic duo.Durant back in his hometown would sell tickets and re-energize the fan base this could work if the cap numbers pan out.

Posted by: dargregmag | February 16, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

If the Wizards would win the draft lottery OKC would really be ripe to deal. The instant gratifacation guys on this site don't want to hear it, but OKC's got three picks in this upcoming draft & young talent. Just the kind of team to deal with if a rebuilding project is in order.

I'd think they'd really squirm about giving up Durant, but Green's another local guy that is showing some real potential.

Our young guy's progress and watching the top college prospects is what this season has boiled down to. Crittenton's play has been a real bright spot lately. If Gil can come back in the last 20 games or so and prove healthy. The backcourt could be solid next year.

Draft big or trade for a big. A really Big, Big...

Posted by: flohrtv | February 16, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

There is absolutely no chance the Thunder deal Durant for Griffin and close to none they deal Green for him. They've already put two years into developing those guys and both have paid off. They're the foundation of their entire rebuilding process. Starting over gain with Griffin (a guy that even his most ardent supporters don't believe will be franchise player) is two steps forward, one step back. And spare me the "he's a local guy" stuff. No one cares. NBA fans don't pay to see teams because of what college their players went to.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 16, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

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