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Injury Update

From Ivan Carter:

Caron Butler did not practice again today. (He missed yesterday's loss to the Nets with the flu.) Butler will be re-evaluated tomorrow.

Juan Dixon (elbow) and DeShawn Stevenson (back) are still out -- along with Gilbert Arenas, Andray Blatche and Brendan Haywood -- so the Wizards could suit up only eight players again tomorrow against the Denver Nuggets.

And despite its depleted ranks, the team cannot sign another player because it already has the NBA maximum of 15 under contract.

By the way, a Wizards PR assistants who helps out on game nights is limping around as well -- he hurt his knee in a pickup game.


By Alexa Steele  |  February 5, 2009; 5:37 PM ET
 
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Comments

all you can do at this point is laugh, I have cried all I have in me and at this juncture there is no looking back since it causes my neck to strain and my feet to slip. Lets look forward, lets find that happy place....oh Zero where art thou?

http://www.wizardsextreme.com

Posted by: WizardsExtreme | February 5, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

That Nuggets/Wiz game on ESPN Friday should be real must-see TV.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 5, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

INJURY BUG ON THE RAMPAGE,ELTON BRAND/SIXERS, OUT FOR THE YEAR UNREAL!!

Posted by: dargregmag | February 5, 2009 6:37 PM | Report abuse

McGee has been on the court for 73 minutes in the last three games.

On a per 40 minute per game basis, he has averaged 21 points and 11 boards.

When will the team get on board with proactively developing this guy?

Posted by: Izman | February 5, 2009 6:51 PM | Report abuse

No cap money. No money to sign the number 1-3 draft pick either. Some time ago I said that the Wizs needed to buy out some contracts and get two big mean tough guys.

I'm convinced now that Abe Polin has no choice but to suck it up and take the luxury tax hit.

GA, BH, AJ, CB, DM, NY, JC, JM, DStev, and OP, stays for next year. DSon, MJ, ET, and JD are out of hear.

You ain't gonna get nothing for them guys, so Abe has to buy them out except JD (releasable outright) and sign two big mean tough guys in the draft thereby exceeding the salary cap.

Of course, Abe has to pay for a good coach also, the most important piece of all.

Anybody thinking we can trade our nucleous for somebody else of equal or greater value is just dreamin.

Only the money is gonna fix this team.

Abe Polin, You Got to Show the Money!!!

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 5, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

OH NO PR GUY!

who's going to convince me that this is all just a bad dream and that when the wizards are healthy they're among the best teams in the east?!

Posted by: yukiwith2us | February 5, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

The odds of the Wizards ever becoming an elite team are dim. Risks must be taken. Elton Brand is out for the season. Trade Jamison and trash for Brand. Buy low, sell...in the second round of the 2009-2010 playoffs.

Posted by: mugsybol | February 5, 2009 7:15 PM | Report abuse

Also, what happen to the Juwan Howard rule. I always thought you could resign your own players without taking a cap hit. (Roger Mason) Did I miss the rule change.

Reference Mikes comments on the John Thompson show today that Mason could not be resigned because of AJ's and GA's contracts left no money to sign Mason.

I thought you had the right to retain your own players without taking a salary hit.

I probably missed something here. Let me know but don't smack me to hard.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 5, 2009 7:17 PM | Report abuse

DSon, MJ, ET, and JD are out of hear.

You ain't gonna get nothing for them guys,

ET and MJ have trade value for their contracts alone. They both have ~$6m/yr contracts that expire after next season.

Songaila is a keeper. He's worth more than his contract. I'm also fine with dixon staying. He's cheap (and also worth more than his contract IMO), and good to have at the end of the bench.

I'll tell you a trade I think would be great for next season: Lhughes for ET and MJ. Of course ET is hurt so it'll have to wait.

Dunno if Chicago would do it, as they're not getting much in return (some muscle on the inside, which they could use, and some backcourt offense off the bench, which they don't need with Ben Gordon), but the one good thing is that LH's contract also expires after next season, so we'd have the same level of flexibility, contract wise. And we could potentially negotiate Hughes' salary down in 2010, as I don't see a lot of teams having a great deal of interest in him as a FA in summer 2010. And I'm sure Hughes would be very happy to come back here, since he had his best years here.

Posted by: jones-y | February 5, 2009 7:27 PM | Report abuse

You can go over the salary cap to resign your own players.

However, if you then go over the luxury tax limit you would have to pay a tax to the league, which the Wizards don't seem to want to do.

Posted by: cannontl | February 5, 2009 7:34 PM | Report abuse

The Wiz could have resigned Mason but they would have had to pay a luxury tax for each dollar they went over the limit.

Posted by: cannontl | February 5, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

Signing AJ and GA put them over the salary cap but a little under where the luxury tax was set.

Posted by: cannontl | February 5, 2009 7:52 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: iward8 | February 5, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: iward8 | February 5, 2009 8:16 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: crs-one | February 5, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Come on guys. Amarie and Lebron will never end up in a Wizards uni'. Like I said. You just dreamin.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 5, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

RANDOM THOUGHT:
I was won of the few that watched the game yesterday and something needs to be done about Antwan Jamison.

I remember a play Nick Young had the ball on the side and McGee was posted up. Jamison comes over and posts up right in front of McGee. The court was unbalanced, NY takes a jumper, it goes in. Get rid of Jamison...

Posted by: vwilli1 | February 5, 2009 9:17 PM | Report abuse

AJ is probably the classiest player the Wizards have right now.

One bad play or one bad night does not change that.

Posted by: cannontl | February 5, 2009 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Jones-y, Dixon is the only one of the four I agree with you on. However, four has to go in order to get two big mean tough guys. If we settle for one then Juan stays.

Songala is to slow and his positives does not make up for his negatives.

In any event, Abe has to bite the bullet and spend some more of his money.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 5, 2009 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Cannontl, thanks for the specifics. So it appears that Abe has fallen into that old trap of pay me now or pay me later, AGAIN. Might have been to cheaper to pay Mason than what he is looking at now in order to get this Team back on the right track.

Again, it looks like Polin is making the same old mistakes. Juwan Howard, could have been resigned for 21 Million, and Abe said no, but ended up paying over 70 or 100 million, I forget which one, but you get my point.

I guess thats why BulletsFans78 keeps calling Abe Cheap. Not because he does not have the money, but he is pound foolish.

Luxury Tax, he's been paying for years, and dosen't realize it.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 5, 2009 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Trading Hughes for Thomas does nothing for the Bulls. It doesn't help their cap, since both guys' contracts expire at the same time, and it doesn't help them on the floor because Thomas doesn't do anything that Noah or Thomas or Gooden or Gray don't do just as well or better. Ditto with James versus Gordon, Hinrich, or Rose. If they trade Hughes (and I wouldn't be surprised if they do) they'll be looking for measurable assets in return.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 5, 2009 11:20 PM | Report abuse

A healthy Gilbert, Brendan, and DeShawn may be all we need next year. But then that scenario doesn't work assuming we draft 1-3.

We have to pay the money the somewhere, so we have to buy off the dead weight to make a spot for the pick(s). If we trade the pick(s) we still have to pay the money for what we get. So we still even.

The only thing that works is that old Abe, being so called penny wise in the past, now has to spend money to get rid of dead weight DSon, Eton, and MJ (buyouts)to get a big mean tough guy.

Abe has to spend the money. If he is sincere that his goal is another NBA championship, the only way is to spend the money. No team is going to trade him the players one thinks might win a championship. He has to do it with the players he has and the right draft picks.

Spend the money Abe. Salary Cap and Luxury Tax be Damned.

LarryInClintonMD

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 5, 2009 11:38 PM | Report abuse

Kalo, I don't think that any Team will trade us any value for what we have to offer. I blogged a long time ago that Auerbach never traded anyone of value to anyone else, but he got value for what he traded.

The Wizards are not that smart. Thats why I say that Abe now has to Spend the Money. Do you agree?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 5, 2009 11:47 PM | Report abuse

LarryInClintonMD, the only trade bait we will have for next season will be AB, Bulter, or maybe Jamison. DSong 50-50. That's it! I can't see anyone asking for any other of our players (Jvale, NY are untouchable). Anyhow, we should not be focusing on the top 3 pick anyway. For the past 3 years they haven't been all that great, no?

Posted by: demonj21 | February 5, 2009 11:48 PM | Report abuse

Buying out Thomas and James makes absolutely no sense, given that their deals expire at the end of next season, and thus would make very attractive trade assets. Buying them out would be a waste of value. Not that it matters, because even if Grunfeld wanted to, the players would never agree to buyouts because they'd never agree to take less money than they're owed, which is what almost always what happens during a buyout. And even if they did buy them out, the Wiz would still be over the cap and wouldn't have more than the MLE to spend on FAs.

Their best course is to try and use Thomas, James (and possibly Haywood) and their expiring deals as trade bait.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 6, 2009 12:35 AM | Report abuse

Abe owns DC/B'more Ticketmaster.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29043950/

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | February 6, 2009 1:03 AM | Report abuse

Demonj21, unless Tapscott is fired the Wizs will end up with the worst record and thereby we must focus on the 1-3 picks in the draft. If it is true that we do not have the cap money to pay for the pick, then what do we do. Kalo points out and I forgot that the players have to agree to a buyout.

So with our injured players coming back next year we don't even have a roster spot for the pick.

Looks like we got to go beg teams to take our dead weight to free up a spot for the pick.

Forget about a trade, I do not see any Team doing a deal that benefits our position. Unless we get a team to take our pick and our dead weight for a future pick of equal value. Not good.


My hang up is that we have to move ETon, DSong, and Mike James, off the roster and we get one free roster spot, two if we release Dixon. Now we have two or one spot for the draft for the best players we can get. I don't want any FA's.

If Abe has to buy those contracts and twist the players arms to accept, then so be it. Take the penalties and the hit, cause a championship should be the only goal.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 6, 2009 1:30 AM | Report abuse

Can we trade Tapscott and an uninjured PR assistant for a $2 coupon at Pizza Hut and Popeye Jones?

Posted by: a_random_thought | February 6, 2009 2:13 AM | Report abuse

Why are people still calling Abe cheap and talking about him as if he won't spend money just because he doesn't want to go over the luxury tax? I'm no Abe fan but the Wiz payroll is 13th out of 30 in the league according to Hoopshype.
Our team payroll is higher than Orlando, San Antonio, Utah, New Orleans, Miami..

If you want to argue that he's not spending the money properly, then you have an argument. Abe USED to be cheap but he's put out a lot of money in the past few years.

From a fiscal standpoint, the prudent thing for this team to do is just to do nothing right now and wait til next year. No one wants to hear that but it's true. Assuming that everyone is healthy, we'll have the so called 'big 3' and BTH plus and a bunch of young players that are experienced in AB, JM, NY, JC, etc. Throw in a top pick for good measure and we're set up fairly well to have a good future provided we get a good coach.

EG and Abe have set this team up to be successful for a while with a good mix of vets and young players. Injuries have killed us but you really can't control that. We just have to figure out what style of game we want to play. Our window of opportunity is still wide open and shouldn't be closing anytime soon.

As far as Gil is concerned, I know there's a lot of angst about why he's not coming back. Microfracture surgery is a temporary stopgap procedure. I know. I've had it. When your cartilage is gone, it's gone. There's only so much pounding your knee can take and if they want to save the wear and tear on Gil's knee for a season where we're in the hunt, it really does make sense. And we all know from watching other players that it takes about 2 years to be back to full strength after this surgery. We also know that if you come back too soon, you can ruin your progress and wind up setting yourself back. Amare did it.

I'm going to continue to watch the team as much as I can this year with the future in mind. As long as Tap doesn't screw us up by wearing Cb and Aj out to the point where they're injured next year, I'm ok. I'll just keep TIVOing the games and fast forwarding til I see Songaila come out.

Posted by: original_mark | February 6, 2009 7:40 AM | Report abuse

Original_Mark, I hear ya, but back to my point, when everybody gets back, we got these contracts that are in the way of signing our high draft pick.

We must move 3-4 contracts to have 1 or 2 open spots to sign in the draft.

We cannot just stand pat. Abe/Ernie has to get 3 players to agree to buyouts to open one free spot. Trades will not solve this problem.

The Wizs will have to take a salary/tax hit next year inorder to add the draft choice.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 6, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Next season the wiz CAN have roster space for both draft picks. McGuire only signed a 2 year deal after getting drafted in the 2nd round so his deal comes off the books this offseason. Dixon only signed a 1 year deal. There's your two roster spots right there. Now having the money to sign them is a different issue but one that can be resolved. I'm no GM but what I figure they will do is use the top 5 pick on someone that can help immediately then take a foreign player they can stash overseas in the 2nd for when they have the money and space for them. If they sell off a top 5 pick because of money after this season, fans would revolt and it would be a pr nightmare. Then over the summer re-sign McGuire and let Dixon walk (McGuire should be cheap). The luxury tax comes at the end of the season not the begining, so if you believe the Wiz are going to be a strong playoff team with everyone back you trade off one of the expiring contracts at the trade deadline (James, Haywood, Etan [my preference], Pecherov) and a 1st round pick (which you figure to be about the 20th pick or worse if they make the playoffs) to a team under the cap for a 2nd round pick (a team under the cap can make a deal without contracts matching). The Suns did this with Kurt Thomas and 2 1st round picks to OKC for a 2nd. Or the wiz can draft Rick Rubio and let him stay in Europe for a year. Point is there are ways to keep a top 5 pick and stay under the luxury tax.

Posted by: detox04 | February 6, 2009 8:46 AM | Report abuse

LarryInClintonMD, isn't there a rookie pool that we have allocated to sign our draft pick? I assume this will count against our cap and may put us over the lux cap amount?

Posted by: original_mark | February 6, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

yeah, detox04...There would definitely be a riot if we did anything but keep a top draft pick.

I have another point I wanted to address ...
I hear some talk from fans about Amare Stoudemire. The major complaint about him is that he plays no defense. Plus, he's had microfracture surgery. Do we really want a guy who's young and already has a knee problem history?

Also, how smart does Eg look now for not even pursuing Elton Brand or Kirilenko? I have been pushing for a AJ for Ak47 trade for 2 years now but Ak47 is always hurt. A lot of times, we neglect to give credit for the trades that we didn't make. These are a couple.

Posted by: original_mark | February 6, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Detox04, when everybody is back we have 14 guys under contract with Dixon.

So three have to go for one spotm four for two spots.

And yeah, Original_Mark, there is a rookie pool and it counts and you have to have a spot(s) on the roster for him(s).

We got to move some contracts. Cap/Tax hit i.e. buyouts or a miracle trade is in our immediate future for next season. We have no choice. The numbers will not let us wait out next season.

No pun intended, but we need a Stimilus now.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 6, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Even though I mentioned trades, I caution that a trade that works will be more costly to he Team than getting three players to agree to buyouts.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | February 6, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Larryinclinton I think I know what you are talking about it but not sure. When you are saying 3 have to go for 1 spot I am assuming you mean to get to 12 players. This is not true, you can have 15 played on your team but only 12 can dress per game. And they changed the rule that the other 3 players not dressed have to be hurt. Now they are just inactive and can stay on your roster for the entire season.

And next year we only have 13 players under contract with a least 4 expiring (not sure but think young and crits rookie deals are under restricted free agent deals next summer).

And no there is not a rookie pool. Each first round pick is slotted a salary based on which pick their taken. But no teams are forced to pay the slot if the player isn't signed. The spurs have been taking guys late in the 1st that stay over seas to save money for that season or if they don't have space. If you don't make a pick you are not forced to spend money.

Posted by: detox04 | February 6, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

There's no good reason for any of the Wizards players mentioned to agree to a buyout. Giving the Wizards back guaranteed money to become FAs does nothing to benefit the players involved.

There is no rookie pool, but teams are allowed to exceed the salary cap to sign first round draft picks.

There's no need to make trades to free up a roster spot. Dixon's deal expires this season, so that's a spot for the first round pick. Second round picks aren't guaranteed salaries or roster spots, so trying to dump a player with a guaranteed deal to preemptively make room for a 2nd round pick who might not even make the team doesn't make sense. If there's a player in the second round they think is a keeper, they can make a move to free up a spot for him then.

And I do believe that McGuire is under contract for next year. He was signed to a 2-year deal with a 3rd year option, which was picked up.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 6, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

First off, this year’s draft class is pathetic. It will be one of the worst this decade. This was by far the worst possible year to “tank it”. Unless there is “guy” EG really wants in the draft, but I don’t see it. There is no LBJ, no Dwight, no D Rose, no player that is worth getting in a “sweepstakes” for. I watch a lot of college ball, and I honestly think Blake Griffen will be a marginal NBA player at best. Maybe a 14 & 8 guy, but nothing better.

Why do you people think Tyler Hans waited to come out this year? He had nothing left to prove in college ball. He knew that this was by far one of the weakest draft classes in quite some time, and this would give him the best chance of being a 1st round pick.

Again, I say we dump Etan, dump BTH, dump Juan (although I love him), and draft Thabeet. Defensive player of the year last year, and very well could win it again this year. That would give us a 2-headed monster at center, and allow us to move AB back to his real position.

As far as a second round “steal” this year, I wouldn’t count on it. If Tyreese Rice from BC is still available in the 2nd round, take him. This of course depends on what the Wiz do with Crittenton. Either that or try to grab Christmas from Temple. Pure shooter, can create his own shot. Those are the only guards who I like in the 2nd round. Jerel (sp) from Marquette could be a possibility too. This is assuming of course we draft Thabeet in the 1st round.

With Thabeet, AJ, AB, Javale, DSong, Dom, our front line will be deep enough. The smart thing to do would be to use the 2nd round pick on a guard who is NBA READY (Rice or Christamas).

Posted by: cj658 | February 6, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Since when is 14 and 8 "marginal" for an NBA player?

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 6, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Giving the Wizards back guaranteed money to become FAs does nothing to benefit the players involved.

Giving back money to be free to join a winning team actually would benefit a decent player if they care about more than just the moolah, I would think. They could potentially get more money or at least break even get and a chance to play for something meaningful.

A guy like AJ could possibly get a job with someone else in this league. I'm sure a team like the Celts would love to have his scoring off the bench and, with other defenders in the lineup, could afford to put up with his lackluster defense.

Posted by: original_mark | February 6, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

..but that's assuming that a guy doesn't give up too much in the buyout.

Marbury balked at giving up $1 million a while back and he probably should have taken it. He probably blew his chance at being a Celtic by talking too much. Now he's willing to give it up and the Knicks are saying no deal.

Posted by: original_mark | February 6, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

"Giving back money to be free to join a winning team actually would benefit a decent player if they care about more than just the moolah, I would think."

Expect there's no guarantee that a winning team would be interested in them. Or that any team would be interested in them. Do you really think that contending teams will be lining up to sign Etan Thomas, Darius Songaila, or Mike James? (The 3 players Larry mentioned by name as being bought out.) There's a pretty good chance that Thomas is playing on his last NBA contract. James has worn out his welcome on pretty much every team he's been on. There's no big market for these guys. If a guy like Stephon Marbury, who has a $20 mill contract, will without question draw interest on the market, and is utterly miserable in his current situation has been hesitant to give back even a couple mill in a buyout, there's no reason to think fringe guys like Songaila, Thomas, or James would just hand money back knowing they may never see it again.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 6, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

This draft class is weak because there aren't a lot of top-of-the-line talents. That doesn't mean there aren't any top-of-the-line talents. This is actually one of the best years to tank it, because outside of the top picks, there isn't much to work with.

Griffen is absolutely on par with Rose/Beasley/Durant/Oden, etc. No, he may not be Dwight Howard or Lebron James, but those players only come out a few times a generation. He's a bigger, more powerful Amare that has the ability to be a good post defender and a great weakside defender.

The more I think of it, the more I think Griffen would be perfect for this team. Big, mean, tough interior player that can run the floor, finish at the rim, and will always draw the attention of multiple defenders (which would allow McGee to sneak in and around the lane for the gimme ally-oops he's so good at).

Posted by: psps23 | February 6, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

14 & 8 is marginal. Marginal meaning, “middle of the pack” ie: not great, but not horrible. 14 & 8 are not great numbers, but they are not bad numbers either. Those numbers will not get you to the all-star game, but they will not get you to the d-league either. I do not see what’s so confusing about that concept.

Posted by: cj658 | February 6, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Marginal doesn't mean "middle of the pack". Marginal means being just above the lowest standards.

In my view, Darius Songaila is a marginal player. DeShawn Stevenson is a marginal player. 14 & 8 is far from a marginal player.

Posted by: psps23 | February 6, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Marginal = at the outer or lower limits; minimal for requirements; almost insufficient.

If they get the #1, take Griffin. If they get #2, I'd like them to take Rubio and let him play out his contract in Spain for a year or two. Outside of that, I think you trade the pick.

Posted by: uptownjive | February 6, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

"Marginal meaning, “middle of the pack”"

Except that's not what marginal means. Marginal means along the margins, the margins being at either end, nowhere near the middle.

And 14 and 8 are not middle of the pack numbers.

There are approximately 450 players in the NBA (30 teams X 15 players per team). There are currently 7 players averaging between 14 and 14.5 PPG. They are ranked 76th (Eric Gordon) through 82 (Steve Nash) in the league. There are currently 13 players averaging between 8 and 8.5 RPG. They are ranked 25th (Sam Dalembert) through 37th (Kendrick Perkins) in the league.

Those are not middle of the pack rankings and they certainly aren't "marginal."


"Those numbers will not get you to the all-star game,"

In the 2005-06 season, Rasheed Wallace was selected to the All-Star game by the East coaches. For the season he averaged 15 ppg and just under 7 rpg. In the 2007-08 season, Rasheed Wallace was named to the All-Star team as an injury replacement for Kevin Garnett. For the season he averaged just under 13 points and 7 rebounds per game.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 6, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Gee thanks, what would I do without the trusty interns from Webster, that just happen to blog here in their spare time!

And FYI, Deshawn and Song are not marginal, they are bad NBA players. (not bad players, bad on NBA standards). Again, I stand firmly in saying 14 & 8 is marginal on NBA standards. Period.

I am not going to argue with people who think that BTH averaging 10 & 7 last year was a “solid year”. Give me a break folks. Why am I not surprised you guys think 14 & 8 is “not marginal”. Hell, if BTH averaged 14 & 8, you guys would probably pencil him in as a first ballot hall of famer. I simply do not get it.

In regards to the All star situation, Rasheed played on a very good pistons team, and he didn’t deserve to be there. So I guess if Kobe, LBJ, Amare, Carmelo, etc (I could go on and on) all of a sudden started to average 14ppg, then they would not be “marginal”? Yes, they would. They would be considered quite dissapointing. So I guess according to your logic LBJ averiging 14ppg is still and all-star? Perhaps I should have rephrased my orginal statement. 14 & 8 is marginal for GOOD NBA players, specifically those taken in the top 5. ie Blake Griffin.

Posted by: cj658 | February 6, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

I think Rook got bored and quit stopping in here when this site was full of a lot of garbage. When it got into Salary Cap/Luxury Tax discussions he always seemed to be the most informed guy here.

Larry, the Wiz may have to go over the Luxury Tax level to sign a top 5 pick. They've got roster space since Juan isn't signed next year. At present signing a second rounder or bringing over Veerlenko would require cutting somebody or getting rid of McGuire. I can't see that in either case that would be a step up, McGuire will be back, and signed to a long term deal.

James case is interesting, I asked when he was traded for if he had a buyout clause in his player option. No one ever answered. Ivan, those are good questions to get answers for. If there is a buyout, it counts against the Luxury Tax, but the frees up a roster slot in the Salary Cap.

Since the team would be over the LT anyway signing a Mid Level FA could be an option if James is bought out. Guys like James often agree to the buyout of an option year for the difference in their option year contract and the Vet min if they think they can go else where and get a job.

Songaila is a tougher guy to buyout cause there's a couple of years left including his option. I don't think Thomas could even get a min else where with his injury history. Like James his value is in the expiring cap space. Not much else.

A top 5 pick is worth going over the Luxury Tax for. Last summer the judgement was that Mason wasn't worth exceeding the LT for. I'd say that's a judgement the Wiz would reconsider if given the chance to do a do over.

Posted by: flohrtv | February 6, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

"In regards to the All star situation, Rasheed played on a very good pistons team, and he didn’t deserve to be there."

But he was there nonetheless (twice, no less), therefore disproving the idea that 14 and 8 can't get you an all-star spot.

Also:

Brad Miller: 2003 NBA All-star, 13 ppg and 8 rpg.
Brad Miller: 2004 NBA All-star, 14 ppg and 10 rpg.
Jamaal Magloire: 2004 NBA All-star, 14 ppg and 10 rpg.
Andrei Kirilenko: 2004 NBA All-star, 16 ppg and 6 rpg.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 6, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

"Again, I stand firmly in saying 14 & 8 is marginal on NBA standards. Period."

"Perhaps I should have rephrased my orginal statement. 14 & 8 is marginal for GOOD NBA players, specifically those taken in the top 5. ie Blake Griffin."

So, which is it? Is 14 and 8 marginal "period" or is it only marginal when applied to "GOOD players."

A breathless world awaits.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 6, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

"So I guess according to your logic LBJ averiging 14ppg is still and all-star?"

He is if the fans vote him onto the team to start or the coaches vote him on as a reserve.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 6, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

I am not going to argue with people who think that BTH averaging 10 & 7 last year was a “solid year”. Give me a break folks. Why am I not surprised you guys think 14 & 8 is “not marginal”. Hell, if BTH averaged 14 & 8, you guys would probably pencil him in as a first ballot hall of famer. I simply do not get it.

You don't get it because you only understand stats, stat man.

Posted by: jones-y | February 6, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na STAT MAAAAN!

Posted by: jones-y | February 6, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps I should not have used the term all-star. The voting process is pretty flawed. Rasheed did not deserve it. Winning has a lot to do with it. If Rasheed played for the Sonics, Kings, Grizzlies, etc, he would not have been there. That Pistons team had 4 reps, and that was absurd. At one point in the game, all 4 of them were on the floor. That was nonsense.

As far as "marginal", I guess it's a double edged sword. I'm going to get negated either way I put it. I should have said 14 & 8 "generally" won't get you to an all-star game. For all the players named that did make an all-star game with similar numbers (as listed above), I can easily name 5 times as much who averaged those numbers and didn't make it. Basically, that's 5 players for every one player. So overall, 14 & 8 will not get you to the all-star game.

To answer the main question, I do feel that 14 & 8 are marginal numbers. Period. Good player or not, those are marginal numbers. If AB were to average 14 & 8, I would still consider him marginal. What I truly should have said, is WINNING is what determines critics views on whether a player's numbers are "marginal" or not. Pefect example, Raheed, as noted above. When a player is in a great system, surronded by great players, they will get A LOT more credit than is truly deserved.

Posted by: cj658 | February 6, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

As far as stats, #'s do not lie. They are factual peices of information. All that crap I hear about "hustle stats" that don't go on the scorecard, is BS. If that were the case, Michael Ruffin would be a 7 time All-Star. God players average great numbers. Period. Shaq never averaged 10 & 7 in his prime. Than BTh averages 10 & 7, and you guys are ready to annoint him as the answer to the Wizards woes LOL!!! Role players are a dime a dozen, you can find them anywhere.

Posted by: cj658 | February 6, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

If Blake Griffin, who is currently averaging 22 and 14 in college as a sophomore is somehow destined/doomed to be a "marginal" 14 and 8 NBA player, that certainly doesn't bode well for Hasheem Thabeet, a junior averaging 13 and 10.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 6, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Hasheem Thabeet is also averaging 4 blocks per game. Meanwhile, Griffin is averaging 1 block per game. How convenient you left that out. Why? Because that is the main reason the Wizards need Thabeet, Defense, a body to clog the lane. You know, someone who will make opposing players think twice before driving to the basket. Blake Griffin will scare no one.

Posted by: cj658 | February 6, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

On an unrelated topic. RE: Today's WAPO article by Ivan Carter about attendance. here are some quotes from Peter Biche:

"the overall economic downturn have been factors in the attendance drop, according to Peter Biche, the team's president of business operations and chief financial officer."

""This is not just the Washington Wizards," Biche said. "This is going to be a challenge for everybody"

"There were NBA marketing meetings in Phoenix a couple of weeks ago and one of the primary elements of discussion was renewals. You can't be naive with this economy the way it is."

"Where you might have had a larger margin of error in the past, you don't have that now."


My, my, my, Ivan you should have made this story a blog post. Biche is so up the creek, it is ridiculous. To blame the economy is a cop out, and insultig to all the hard working Washingtonians in the metro area. The DC area is well below the natinal unemployment rate. The Capitals are experiencing HUGE gains in attendance, and have been selling out damn near every game lately. That place is nuts for Caps games. The bottom line is this article tends to lead readers to believe that the economy is one of the major factors in the Wizards pitiful attandance. No, it is about WINNING!!! Just look at the Caps. The economy sure isn't affecting their attendance, now is it? The difference, they are WINNING.

Posted by: cj658 | February 6, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

"Meanwhile, Griffin is averaging 1 block per game. How convenient you left that out."

I didn't leave it out. You did. You said Griffin was going to be a "marginal" 14 and 8 player. You didn't say anything about blocks.

"Blake Griffin will scare no one."

He doesn't have to "scare" anybody. He just has to make the opposing team defend/double-team him in the post and always pay attention to him under the boards. A low post PF who can put up 22 and 14 tends to have that affect.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 6, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

"A low post PF who can put up 22 and 14 tends to have that affect"

That is in the Big 12, not the NBA.

You're right, I didn't mention blocks, because they are irrelavant when it comes to Griffin. I simply stated what I feel he is capable of averaging in the NBA, and blocks were not part of the equation.

Now, Thabeet on the other hand, is a different story. My original point was that the Wizards do no need a PF who will average 14 & 8. They don't need scoring, that has been established. They need a defensive minded big man who can get you 4 blocks a game.

Posted by: cj658 | February 6, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

"That is in the Big 12, not the NBA."

And Thabeet's 4 blocks are in the Big East, not the NBA.

See how that works?

"They don't need scoring, that has been established."

Established by whom? I must have missed the Congressional Report on the Wizards draft needs.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 6, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

"My original point was that the Wizards do no need a PF who will average 14 & 8."

A point devoid of any validity because you have no provable, factual basis for concluding that Griffin will be a 14 and 8 player.

Posted by: kalo_rama | February 6, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

If it's a banging, low post 14 and 8 at PF, I'd say the Wizards do need a player like that. Would that be small return on a top 3 pick? Probably, but with a weak class, the question then becomes: can we do better than a tough 14 and 8 by packaging the pick for a vet?

Posted by: mugsybol | February 6, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

“And Thabeet's 4 blocks are in the Big East, not the NBA.
See how that works?”

I was simply using your logic. You were the first to bring the given player’s real college stats into the equation. I was simply piggy-backing your rational.


“Established by whom? I must have missed the Congressional Report on the Wizards draft needs.”

Well then I suggest you pick up the cj658 Journal of Basketball Knowledge, Vol. 5.
But really, just look at the Wizards overall offensive stats the past 3 seasons with a healthy Gilbert. It is not hidden the archives anywhere. The conclusion you draw from checking those numbers will speak louder than anything I can tell you on here. Let me know once you have completed that task.

“A point devoid of any validity because you have no provable, factual basis for concluding that Griffin will be a 14 and 8 player”

Go back and look at my original post: “and I honestly think Blake Griffen will be a marginal NBA player at best. Maybe a 14 & 8 guy, but nothing better.” Note the key words “think” and “maybe”. This is my opinion, there are no guaranteed, but I am pretty sure I am right, just based on what I’ve seen from him. What a player does in college has no bearing what so ever on what a player does on the next level. Ever heard of Ed Cota? How about Eddie Griffin or Dajuan Wagner? I could continue. So, truth be told, my opinion actually has a lot of weight. Those are just a few examples.

Posted by: cj658 | February 6, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

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