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Tapscott Will Not Return as Coach

Wizards President Ernie Grunfeld has officially announced that Ed Tapscott will not return as coach next season, but will remain with the team. From the news release:

"Ed has our sincere gratitude and appreciation for stepping up to lead this team through what turned out to be a very difficult season," said Grunfeld. "He will continue to be a valued member of the organization."

No word yet on when the new coach -- by all accounts, Flip Saunders -- will be introduced.


By Alexa Steele  |  April 17, 2009; 4:12 PM ET
 
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Next: Poll: Vote for Wizards MVP

Comments

Really? You don't say.....

Posted by: truthaboutit | April 17, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Trade Blatche, Butler, Dixon, Pesh and James to move up in the draft for Marc Sanchez.

Posted by: mmmhmmm | April 17, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

What about trading, (caron,pech,ab,dixon) for jr smith of denver and a draft pick,any thoughts??

Posted by: Iceman4 | April 17, 2009 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Work in the summer?

Didn't Gilby promise after the end of last season that he was going to stay in DC and workout like a madman, but soon enough, took a tour of Asia for Adidas and visited the Phillipines? How did this past season work out?

Gilby....whatever....nobody believes you.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/sports/basketball/Arenas-Talk-More-Affordable-Than-Cheap.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/16/AR2009041604347.html

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 17, 2009 10:10 PM | Report abuse

Trade Gil, AJ, CB and Haywood for Big Bird.

Posted by: hands11 | April 18, 2009 12:02 AM | Report abuse

I am sorry to hear that. I wanted him to come back for round 2 next season. We could have reached an all-time low of 10 games next season.

REMIX
Get that noncoaching man out of the phone booth. Pronto!!!

Posted by: abootstrapper | April 18, 2009 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Arenas comeback player of the year in 2009 as Wizards slam the East baby! Come on Blake!

Posted by: ptp23 | April 18, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

"Arenas comeback player of the year in 2009 as Wizards slam the East baby! Come on Blake!

Posted by: ptp23 | April 18, 2009 9:52 AM "

Is Abe giving out free samples of crack cocaine with season ticket renewals? Must be.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 18, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

That move makes it clear that Tapscott was given the duty of shepherding this team to a top 5 pick while not having the vets all demanding a trade by the deadline.

In Ernie's mind, it was mission accomplihed. After a 1-11 start it was clear the vets didn't have the gas in the tank for a playoff run.

Getting a top five pick assured was the goal of the season after that point. Now if the balls will only bounce in the right direction...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | April 18, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Never thought about it, but Arenas would be the front runner for that award going into next season.

Ahh... More fame and glory for Agent Zero. I see a new side kick for the comic series, "Agent Zero and the Comeback Kid."

You got to love it, just something to spend the summer pondering. It's enough to drive some people wild.

ComeBack Kid Tee Shirts with Swag Dagger...
on the back!

Gil Arenas CBK it has a ring to it...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | April 18, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

tapscott being given a pass by the media and many fans is a joke, a head coach should be tirelessly scrutinized and everyone around here simply said well the team sucks bc arenas and haywood are out, while this may very well be true it is no reason to shield the coach from blame when it is obvious no one is being maximized and reliably put in positions to succeed, (i.e. the coach's job). Did you see how clueless we were in the 4th of games 80 and 81? a big hole on the bench accounts for that. Good riddance, never interview him again, his tired, philosophical babbling is worthless to a basketball team.
"They're professionals too, they're playing to win, sometimes you just gotta tip your hat to them for knocking down shots." -quote from tap after every game

Posted by: bford1kb | April 18, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Did you all see what happened to the Celtics today in Game One on THEIR home court? Take away the top player and bad things can happen no matter if you have two other putative all-stars still on the court... Obviously the series is not over yet, but Derrick Rose has to be amped beyond all belief (Now THERE was a #1 pick worthy of the title, too bad we hit the rocks a year too late!).

Posted by: khrabb | April 18, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

"Arenas comeback player of the year in 2009 as Wizards slam the East baby! Come on Blake!

Is Abe giving out free samples of crack cocaine with season ticket renewals? Must be.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 18, 2009 11:00 AM

"Arenas comeback player of the year in 2009 as Wizards slam the East baby! Come on Blake!

Posted by: ptp23 | April 18, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

"You got to love it, just something to spend the summer pondering. It's enough to drive some people wild.

Posted by: flohrtv | April 18, 2009 12:04 PM "

Only if one has a vested interest via season tickets, but who would be dumb enough to do that?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 18, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

WIZARDS karma will never allow first pick. I hoping for the second and THABEET.

Posted by: glawrence007 | April 18, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

I'd just like to say that blogging with all of you has been fun and a great pleasure for me.

Even with the agreeing, the disagreeing, the common sense comments, the outlandish, the insights and lackof and yes even being schooled on what I did not know.

You see I am one whom loves great converse and most times the best is when differing opinions are conversed with great tact, fun, and hard fought respect.

This is my first full year as a Wizards blogger and I intend on blogging through the offseason and next year.

I cannot wait till next, for I feel that this Wizards Team is gonna be very Good.

In the words of Doc Walker, Keep bringing it hard to the Mic. Or in our case the page.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 18, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and by the way, I think of couple of you guys might have given my Tarheels a thumbsup.

I am disappointed that more of you did not step up, especially the ones of you that love to rag BH & AJ.

And did not I prove point about Tyler Hansbrough too.

Are there still nonbelievers out there that don't believe he would be a tremendous upgrade over ETAN & DSON?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 18, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Good riddance Tappy, I could have done a better job coaching. Oh! and you suck at the job you are supposedly in-charge of, "Player Development" I love how Pech was drafted, never sent to the D_league, given an extension, and barely played.

Posted by: closg | April 18, 2009 9:44 PM | Report abuse

"WIZARDS karma will never allow first pick. I hoping for the second and THABEET.

Posted by: glawrence007 | April 18, 2009 9:26 PM "

It seems more and more clear that unless you have the #1 pick, then the draft doesn't mean anything. It's false hope.

With Les BouleS, even with the #1 pick, it's no guarantee (ref: Kwame Brown).

If you look at Les BouleS roster, every single guy who was drafted by EG is not only unqualified to be a starter, but also questionable as to whether or not they even belong in the league.

The people that EG threw multi millions at either were out injured, or weren't worth the money because this team finished dead last in the EAST, and with the second worst record...even though THE TWO ALL STARS WERE HEALTHY FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE SEASON!!!!

In the NBA, which is supposed to be the elite basketball league, there is a HUGE difference between a superstar vs. a starter in the league, and there are only a handful of superstars.

An even greater ability and knowledge gap exists between a starter vs. a bench warmer.

EG is not smart enough to draft well, not savvy enough to build on the Caron-Kwame trade, doesn't have the support from ownership to hire the best coach, and doesn't have the luck to kick the curse.

Some people on this blog were bragging about how good OPech, NY, and DMac looked during the previous offseason. Many were overhyped with JaTravel after seeing him dunk a couple of times. Guess what? It's yet another season of unfulfilled promise.

Promise + $1 = might get you a cup of coffee at 7-11

Lesson: Don't buy into the hype. Les BouleS need to prove that they deserve the support they want.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 18, 2009 10:13 PM | Report abuse

Mike Lee.

At the Flip Saunders news conference, please ask about the future of Ayers and West Unseld Jr.

We all know that Unseld Jr. will probably be retained because he's considered family, but Abe needs to be called on that.

Let Flip hire his own people.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 18, 2009 10:17 PM | Report abuse

Its time to play taps.

Posted by: dandyhuffman | April 18, 2009 10:36 PM | Report abuse

Its time to play taps.

Posted by: dandyhuffman | April 18, 2009 10:39 PM | Report abuse

Flip gets 4yrs 19mil

Posted by: rcnasa | April 19, 2009 7:35 AM | Report abuse

DC_MAN8:

If this organization is so bad why do you post here? There are other teams even if not centered in your hometown. I have adopted the HAWKS. It is possible.

Posted by: glawrence007 | April 19, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

dcman: "It seems more and more clear that unless you have the #1 pick, then the draft doesn't mean anything. It's false hope."

Interesting theory. Not true, of course, but interesting. Let's start with 2007:

07: Kevin Durant (2), Al Horford (3)
06:LaMarcus Aldridge (2), Brandon Roy (6)
05: Deron Williams (3), Chris Paul (4), Andrew Bynum (10)
04: Devin Harris (5), Luol Deng (7), Andre Iguodala (9)
03: Carmelo Anthony (3), Chris Bosh (4)
02: Amare Stoudemire (9), Caron Butler (10)
01: Shane Battier (3), Joe Johnson (10)
00: Mike Miller (5), Jamal Crawford (8)
99: Baron Davis (3), Richard Hamilton (7), Andre Miller (8), Shawn Marion (9)
98: Vince Carter (5), Paul Pierce (10)
97: Chauncey Billups (3), Tracy McGrady (9)

No, the evidence suggests there's plenty of room for luck and skill past the first pick.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Gilbert Arenas the Come Back Kid!

Gil Arenas...CBK!

Arenas buries another game winner and the crowd goes wild...CBK...CBK...CBK!!!

GM

Posted by: flohrtv | April 19, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

dcman: "f you look at Les BouleS roster, every single guy who was drafted by EG is not only unqualified to be a starter, but also questionable as to whether or not they even belong in the league."

Boy, is he on a roll.

Here's EG's draft history with the Wiz:

2003: Jarvis Hayes (10), Steve Blake (38)
2004: Devin Harris (5), Pete (The Tree) Ramos, (32).
2005: Andray Blatche (49)
2006: Pecherov (17), Vereemenko (48)
2007: Nick Young (16), Dom McGuire (47)
2008: Javale McGee (18); Bill Walker(47)

Well, Hayes was undeniably talented but unexpectedly fragile. Blake outperformed expectations but wound up in Portland. Harris was traded and is now a star in NJ, so he counts against EG. Ramos never played and Bill Walker was traded on draft day to the Celts. Blatche, Young, and Pecherov are still with the club, with the first two getting significant minutes (not bad for young, middle of the round choices). Javale McGee is a player that for all his inexperience would command quite a bit in trade right now. Dom McGuire spent a chunk of the yaar in the starting lineup, always a surprise for someone drafted as low as he was.

Gosh, that looks like about 50-50 to me. We could go back and look at who Ernie might have drafted instead, to see if he really whiffed on a player, but even then, aren't we just using 20-20 hindsight? We all look smart when we've already seen the test answers.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

By the way, let me correct myself: in 2001, Pau Gasol was drafted third, Shane Battier 6th, and Joe Johnson 10th. Battier is now the league's best wing defender, Johnson is an All-Star caliber player, and Gasol -- well, we can watch him in the finals, most likely.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

"dcman: "It seems more and more clear that unless you have the #1 pick, then the draft doesn't mean anything. It's false hope."

Interesting theory. Not true, of course, but interesting. Let's start with 2007:

07: Kevin Durant (2), Al Horford (3)
06:LaMarcus Aldridge (2), Brandon Roy (6)
05: Deron Williams (3), Chris Paul (4), Andrew Bynum (10)
04: Devin Harris (5), Luol Deng (7), Andre Iguodala (9)
03: Carmelo Anthony (3), Chris Bosh (4)
02: Amare Stoudemire (9), Caron Butler (10)
01: Shane Battier (3), Joe Johnson (10)
00: Mike Miller (5), Jamal Crawford (8)
99: Baron Davis (3), Richard Hamilton (7), Andre Miller (8), Shawn Marion (9)
98: Vince Carter (5), Paul Pierce (10)
97: Chauncey Billups (3), Tracy McGrady (9)

No, the evidence suggests there's plenty of room for luck and skill past the first pick.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 9:29 AM "

And out of the 26 players you listed, only 3 have rings, and 2 on the same team.

I'll do the math for you since you're not good at that, and the math says 11.5%.

Again, false hope.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse


Samson151,

Jarvis Hayes and Steve Blake, was Wes Unseld's final pick before it was passed over to EG

Posted by: rcnasa | April 19, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

"Gilbert Arenas the Come Back Kid!

Gil Arenas...CBK!

Arenas buries another game winner and the crowd goes wild...CBK...CBK...CBK!!!

GM

Posted by: flohrtv | April 19, 2009 9:34 AM "

Too bad "CBK" is a regular season award.

The only buzzer beater game winner that matters is if it's in the championship game.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

"Boy, is he on a roll.

Here's EG's draft history with the Wiz:

2003: Jarvis Hayes (10), Steve Blake (38)
2004: Devin Harris (5), Pete (The Tree) Ramos, (32).
2005: Andray Blatche (49)
2006: Pecherov (17), Vereemenko (48)
2007: Nick Young (16), Dom McGuire (47)
2008: Javale McGee (18); Bill Walker(47)

Well, Hayes was undeniably talented but unexpectedly fragile. Blake outperformed expectations but wound up in Portland. Harris was traded and is now a star in NJ, so he counts against EG. Ramos never played and Bill Walker was traded on draft day to the Celts. Blatche, Young, and Pecherov are still with the club, with the first two getting significant minutes (not bad for young, middle of the round choices). Javale McGee is a player that for all his inexperience would command quite a bit in trade right now. Dom McGuire spent a chunk of the yaar in the starting lineup, always a surprise for someone drafted as low as he was.

Gosh, that looks like about 50-50 to me. We could go back and look at who Ernie might have drafted instead, to see if he really whiffed on a player, but even then, aren't we just using 20-20 hindsight? We all look smart when we've already seen the test answers.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 10:15 AM "

Again, you're not paying attention.

I said to look at the CURRENT roster of people whom EG drafted...not the players who were smart enough to leave, as if it really mattered though.

Nick Young, DMac, and JaTravel got decent minutes this year, but couldn't help prevent Les BouleS from being the worst team in the league...and 2 of the 3 spent significant time warming the bench even when they could have helped, thanks to ETap because he didn't think they were ready.

When MeShawn comes back next season, and with BTH now back, look for NY and JaTravel's minutes to severely decrease.

Also, to everyone's fear here, unless DSong or ET gets traded, you might see more of them depending on whether Flip trusts a young guy like DMac.

If Les BouleS get Blake, look for DMac's minutes to decrease also.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

"Arenas comeback player of the year in 2009 as Wizards slam the East baby! Come on Blake!

Posted by: ptp23 | April 18, 2009 9:52 AM "

Is Abe giving out free samples of crack cocaine with season ticket renewals? Must be.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 18, 2009 11:00 AM


Seriously. it's one thing if you're negative. it's another to rag on people who are optimistic.

Is it really that painful for you to let other people be happy? Does it really matter if there are other people who have a different point of view? They weren't talking to you. Let them be.

Posted by: crs-one | April 19, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

dcman: "And out of the 26 players you listed, only 3 have rings, and 2 on the same team.
I'll do the math for you since you're not good at that, and the math says 11.5%.
Again, false hope."

Hmm... so now they have to have rings, and also be on the same team that drafted them? What, you plan to keep raising the bar until you finally reach a point where your argument makes sense?

Look, you could make an All-Star team -- two of them -- out of players who weren't picked number one. But most of them won't have rings, because -- and here's some math, so watch out, bubba -- since 1998, only the Lakers, the Spurs, the Pistons, the Heat, and the Celts have won an NBA championship.

In other words, only 5 of 30 teams, or 16.67%. So unless you happened to play for one of those teams, you couldn't have won a ring.

So Kevin Garnett, drafted 5th and one of the league's three best big men for years, couldn't win until last year. Neither could Ray Allen or Paul Pierce. Dwyane Wade, who wasn't drafted first either, won because Shaq happened to get traded to Miami.

In fact, you may have noticed that players drafted in the Top Ten are usually not going to really strong clubs.

That's why the number of championship rings is a flawed measure of a player's skill as a player.

How about an analogy: the GOP got trounced in this year's election. DOes that mean the GOP is bereft of potentially successful political candidates?


Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

And out of the 26 players you listed, only 3 have rings, and 2 on the same team.

-----------

one ring, 30 teams. or maybe 15 rings and 450 players. whatever. the ring doesn't doesn't indicate whether a person was a good draft pick. it indicates if a team was built well, and that's a combination of a lot of things beyond #1 picks.

Did boston have anyone who was picked #1 on their team last year? all i know is garnett, allen, and pierce weren't #1 picks.

Posted by: crs-one | April 19, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

jinx

Posted by: crs-one | April 19, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"Did boston have anyone who was picked #1 on their team last year? all i know is garnett, allen, and pierce weren't #1 picks.Posted by: crs-one |"

No. None of the players selected first overall in the draft since 1998 has yet won a title. LeBron is hoping to break through this year, of course.

The number one pick in 97, however, was Tim Duncan, and he turned out all right.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Dc, come on man, I thought you knew a little about the round ball. That's not like you to throw out some whacked out logic like that. I am surpised at you. Based on that specific answer you jwrote above, the logic of draft worthiness, the following already or soon to be Hall of Fame draft picks are draft busts next to John Paxson, Robert Horry, BJ Armstrong, etc..

John Stockton
Karl Malone
Charles Barkley
Kevin Johnson
Domonique Wilkens
Patrick Ewing
Bob Lanier
Allen Iverson
Chris Mullin
Jason Kidd

and on..and on...and ..on..and on...

dag..switch sports,,Barry Sanders, Dan Morino...and on..and on...and on...

Posted by: ptp23 | April 19, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

We fell for it guys. DC just wanted to change theblog to get in a debate about whether or not you're a bust if you don't have a ring. That's it. By the way DC, do you actually have a team that you pull for in the NBA? Just curious.

Posted by: ptp23 | April 19, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

I know a guy who disagrees 90% of the time with anything you bring up. It is almost like becuase he did not think of it first, then it possibly can't be right.

He and DC_Man are birds of a feather.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 19, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

And isn't it odd that DC_Man would have such a pseudonymn and seems to be so against the home Team.

I don't get it.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 19, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

"Seriously. it's one thing if you're negative. it's another to rag on people who are optimistic.

Is it really that painful for you to let other people be happy? Does it really matter if there are other people who have a different point of view? They weren't talking to you. Let them be.

Posted by: crs-one | April 19, 2009 11:52 AM "

I guess in your world, the optimistic is interchangeable with the word delusional.

Based on the track record of this ownership, management, and team, there's no reason to be too too "optimistic."

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

"Hmm... so now they have to have rings, and also be on the same team that drafted them? What, you plan to keep raising the bar until you finally reach a point where your argument makes sense?

Look, you could make an All-Star team -- two of them -- out of players who weren't picked number one. But most of them won't have rings, because -- and here's some math, so watch out, bubba -- since 1998, only the Lakers, the Spurs, the Pistons, the Heat, and the Celts have won an NBA championship.

In other words, only 5 of 30 teams, or 16.67%. So unless you happened to play for one of those teams, you couldn't have won a ring.

So Kevin Garnett, drafted 5th and one of the league's three best big men for years, couldn't win until last year. Neither could Ray Allen or Paul Pierce. Dwyane Wade, who wasn't drafted first either, won because Shaq happened to get traded to Miami.

In fact, you may have noticed that players drafted in the Top Ten are usually not going to really strong clubs.

That's why the number of championship rings is a flawed measure of a player's skill as a player.

How about an analogy: the GOP got trounced in this year's election. DOes that mean the GOP is bereft of potentially successful political candidates?


Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 11:53 AM "

Are you concerned with stats or concerned about winning championships?

Obviously it's the former, so this conversation is going nowhere.

If 30 other teams in the league who don't win a championship from year to year makes you feel better because Les BouleS fall into that group, then good for you.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

"Dc, come on man, I thought you knew a little about the round ball. That's not like you to throw out some whacked out logic like that. I am surpised at you. Based on that specific answer you jwrote above, the logic of draft worthiness, the following already or soon to be Hall of Fame draft picks are draft busts next to John Paxson, Robert Horry, BJ Armstrong, etc..

John Stockton
Karl Malone
Charles Barkley
Kevin Johnson
Domonique Wilkens
Patrick Ewing
Bob Lanier
Allen Iverson
Chris Mullin
Jason Kidd

and on..and on...and ..on..and on...

dag..switch sports,,Barry Sanders, Dan Morino...and on..and on...and on...

Posted by: ptp23 | April 19, 2009 12:31 PM "

Obviously you don't know anything about round ball.

The funny thing is that people are getting overhyped about Les BouleS getting this player or that player in the draft.

Of course, I pointed out that there are only a handful of superstars in this league and DC doesn't have any. It's the superstars that generally are able to carry their teams to championship glory.

Get excited about the draft, but by no means think it's going to propel any team to superstardom. Go look at OK.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

"I know a guy who disagrees 90% of the time with anything you bring up. It is almost like becuase he did not think of it first, then it possibly can't be right.

He and DC_Man are birds of a feather.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 19, 2009 1:14 PM "

Larry, it's easy to disagree with you b/c you're usually wrong.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

I guess in your world, the optimistic is interchangeable with the word delusional.

Based on the track record of this ownership, management, and team, there's no reason to be too too "optimistic."

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 1:20 PM

Insults are no substitute for sound logic. Few people are going to accept your definitions of things like optimistic and delusional just because you say they are so.

As with many things in life, including next season, you are correct in saying there's no reason to be "too too optimistic." but there is reason to be optimistic. There's no reason to attack others whose definitions of the two differ from your own.

Posted by: crs-one | April 19, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Are you concerned with stats or concerned about winning championships?

Obviously it's the former, so this conversation is going nowhere.

If 30 other teams in the league who don't win a championship from year to year makes you feel better because Les BouleS fall into that group, then good for you.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 1:23 PM

Granted, a championship would be amazing, and it should be the goal of the organization and we should expect them to be working to that end.

But winning isn't everything. For the fans, this is entertainment. If a championship is the only thing that can make you happy, the odds will have you being unhappy the majority of the time. Enjoy the game, and if you don't, then don't drag everyone else down with you.

(and before you reframe my whole statement and put words in my mouth and then attack me for being delusional and settling for mediocrity, you've used that a thousand times. move on. try to explain your need to have everyone be as dissatisfied as you and what being so perpetually unhappy will accomplish. it sure won't win us any championships, but nothing we do here will.)

Posted by: crs-one | April 19, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

For those of you who are relatively new to the blog, a little background info on DCBoy.

DCBoy has always hated on the Wizards - even when we were winning - (especially Arenas who he is insanely jealous of) and it has baffled many of us because he basically LIVES on the blog(why LIVE on a blog of a team you despise?) Until WaPo made registration a requirement, his remarks were even worse....he called bloggers who did not agree with him (which was almost everyone) HORRIBLE, sexually related names and people were begging for him to be banned from the blog.

He is like the school bully - and he appears to thrive on posters disagreeing with him.

In fact, by posting this, I'm now his target....just wait and see.

Posted by: Lisa_R | April 19, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Samson- Jarvis Hayes was drafted by Wes. Wes was the worst GM in the history of the league. Jarvis sucks, as you would expect of any of Wes's picks. EG has drafted great and traded great. There's really no question. McGee = steal. Young = steal. McGuire = steal. Blatche = steal. All 4 of those guys are way better than what you'd expect by their draft position (late 1st, mid 1st, mid 2nd, late 2nd, respectively). EG is way way way too good to draft some total stiff like Jarvis Hayes. In fact, I'm totally insulted that you attributed Hayes to Ernie. Hayes is a horrible NBA player with no talent; Ernie is a great GM. Also, trading Harris for Jamison most certainly does count toward EG being a good GM - as does signing Gil when no one thought he was good (ie, in 2003), trading Brown for Butler, and stealing Crittenton. Your evaluation of EG is just whack, man.

Lisa_R, that seems very negative for someone who's not trying to be negative. I don't think any bloggers hate anybody - we're not all still in 4th grade. No one is trying to block anyone. You should really relax and stop causing trouble. And don't call people "boy". How crazy are you trying to be?

Posted by: Urnesto | April 19, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Hayes was good player undone by injury. He came into the NBA with a rep as a scorer and scored in double digits in his first two seasons, before the injuries did him in. Even when he was healthy enough to play 81 games that last season in Washington, he was clearly still not 100%; he had no lift in his legs at all, which is the kiss of death for a jumpshooter. It wasn't until the next season in Detroit that he appeared to have his legs back.

It's way too early to call McGee and Young steals. Yes, they have nice potential, but they've clearly got a lot of work to do before becoming reliable NBA contributors, which is pretty much what you expect from guys taken in the late-middle of the first round. No real shock there. If they become borderline all-stars, they'll be steals. If they become reliable role players, they'll be pretty much what you expect out of them.

Anything you get from a guy taken # 49 is a bonus, so on that score Blatche was a nice find. Problem is, because Grunfeld did such a poor job overall finding hidden gems in the lower rungs (either in the draft or free agency) prior to taking Young and McGuire in 2007, Blatche was saddled with expectations way above what a guy taken at his draft position would normally have, and he really hasn't lived up to those expectations (overblown as they may have been to begin with).

McGuire is definitely a steal, no question.

Picking Harris really doesn't count for or against Grunfeld, per se. Harris was drafted for the specific purpose of trading him to Dallas. They basically told Grunfeld who to pick in order to make the trade work. Working out the trade to send the Harris pick (along with locker room cancers Laettner and Stackhouse) most definitely counts in Grunfeld's favor. It was a franchise changing move.

Grunfeld has, without question, done a better job than any Bullets/Wizards GM in more than a decade. But he hasn't been perfect and made several missteps, esp. when it came to acquiring young, developmental talent early on. But given his track record overall, there's no reason to count him out now. As I've said before, his future with the franchise going forward really hinges on the success of his coaching hire to replace Jordan (Tapscott doesn't count; he was a space filler). If Saunders brings positive change and development to this team, then that's a big feather in Grunfeld's cap. If he ends up butting heads with Arenas and the whole thing flames out, then Grunfeld's head is on the chopping block.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 19, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

dcman: "Are you concerned with stats or concerned about winning championships?
Obviously it's the former, so this conversation is going nowhere.If 30 other teams in the league who don't win a championship from year to year makes you feel better because Les BouleS fall into that group, then good for you."

I'm dazzled. Every time I demonstrate that your argument makes no sense, you advance yet ANOTHER argument that makes no sense.

The sheer creativity of it is awe-inspiring.

You're Karl Rove, aren't you?

I mean, think about it: someone who can assert, presumably with a straight face, that the draft is useless unless you get the #1 overall choice, and then persist in that assertion despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary -- I mean, that person is either irretrievably dense, or some new type of perverse genius who is not bound by the ordinary rules of logic.

Remarkable. Orwellian, that's what it is.

G'night, Karl.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

I'd reach back more like 30 yrs in comparing the job that Grunfeld has done as GM. Can't say there's been a trade that has had the impact of the Jamison deal since the Jack Marin/Elvin Hayes bank job.

Grunfeld added the Butler/ Kwami Brown trade to the mix just for good measure.
Acquiring developmental talent as a GM requires a head coach that knows how to develop young talent.

Eddie Jordan had some strengths, developing a young guy like Steve Blake, or Pops wasn't one of them. Those guys have gone on to prove they can carve out a role in this league. They were here and Eddie didn't have the time of day for them.

Arenas has no history of really butting heads with head coaches. But, the biggest question mark still revolves around Arenas and the knee. We've seen that Gil will return as a different player then before the injury.

How Gil and Flip mesh in their offensive system will be a big key. But if Gil isn't able to play effectively in a big majority of the games it all comes apart.

What Ernie does with this pick will tell a lot about what he believes he's seen in Gil's recovery. If the Wiz pick and keep Rubio, it would say a lot about what the GM thinks of the knee.

I still think the deal to get Critt may pan out to be another great deal when it's all said and done. If Ernie is able to turn around and move James's expiring contract to help get another peice in the puzzle it will be even better.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | April 19, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

I wonder DC_Man will you have the guts to post accordingy next year when the Wizards finish no less than 4th in the East next year.

I wonder will you have the guts to post accordingly when Gilbert proves he worth all them millions of dollars Abe is paying him.

Have you ever admitted on this blog that you were wrong, I have.

Check this DC_Man and tell me which one are you.

A man who knows and knows that he knows, knows not.

A man who thinks that he knows and also knows that he knows not, knows.

I daresay DC_Man, the first one applies to you.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 19, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

GM and Kalo_ramo,

Great posts. Grunfeld has done a creditable job and his worth is yet to be seen. His decisions going forward will solidify him as a very good GM or just a so' so'.

I say very good.

Kalo, question for you, Are you the guy a blogger way back at the beginning of the year said you must have a dictionary in tow when you blog?

When I read your blogs I always think of that. However, in my case its a good thing. Even though we differ on points your points flow very well.

JCrit, GM, I think is going to be very good. Even McGee can be very good. But as you both point out and I wholly agree, a lot of it will depend on Flip.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 19, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

"Insults are no substitute for sound logic. Few people are going to accept your definitions of things like optimistic and delusional just because you say they are so.

As with many things in life, including next season, you are correct in saying there's no reason to be "too too optimistic." but there is reason to be optimistic. There's no reason to attack others whose definitions of the two differ from your own.

Posted by: crs-one | April 19, 2009 1:35 PM "

Wasn't it you who replied to me first?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 5:51 PM | Report abuse

"For those of you who are relatively new to the blog, a little background info on DCBoy.

DCBoy has always hated on the Wizards - even when we were winning - (especially Arenas who he is insanely jealous of) and it has baffled many of us because he basically LIVES on the blog(why LIVE on a blog of a team you despise?) Until WaPo made registration a requirement, his remarks were even worse....he called bloggers who did not agree with him (which was almost everyone) HORRIBLE, sexually related names and people were begging for him to be banned from the blog.

He is like the school bully - and he appears to thrive on posters disagreeing with him.

In fact, by posting this, I'm now his target....just wait and see.

Posted by: Lisa_R | April 19, 2009 2:09 PM "

It's amazing how Lisa_R and type and do Gilby's laundry at the same time...among other things.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

"Lisa_R, that seems very negative for someone who's not trying to be negative. I don't think any bloggers hate anybody - we're not all still in 4th grade. No one is trying to block anyone. You should really relax and stop causing trouble. And don't call people "boy". How crazy are you trying to be?

Posted by: Urnesto | April 19, 2009 3:15 PM "

Lisa ain't crazy...she's just dumb.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

"I'm dazzled. Every time I demonstrate that your argument makes no sense, you advance yet ANOTHER argument that makes no sense.

The sheer creativity of it is awe-inspiring.

You're Karl Rove, aren't you?

I mean, think about it: someone who can assert, presumably with a straight face, that the draft is useless unless you get the #1 overall choice, and then persist in that assertion despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary -- I mean, that person is either irretrievably dense, or some new type of perverse genius who is not bound by the ordinary rules of logic.

Remarkable. Orwellian, that's what it is.

G'night, Karl.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 4:16 PM "

Just as I'm dazzled by your mathematical ability...G'night dubya.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

"Arenas has no history of really butting heads with head coaches. But, the biggest question mark still revolves around Arenas and the knee. We've seen that Gil will return as a different player then before the injury.

What Ernie does with this pick will tell a lot about what he believes he's seen in Gil's recovery. If the Wiz pick and keep Rubio, it would say a lot about what the GM thinks of the knee.

I still think the deal to get Critt may pan out to be another great deal when it's all said and done. If Ernie is able to turn around and move James's expiring contract to help get another peice in the puzzle it will be even better.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | April 19, 2009 4:30 PM "

GM'er shows that his head is in the clouds.

Gilby has butted heads with the coach...when a coach dares to challenge him.

I guess you forgot the incident where EJ told him to start playing defense.

With regard GM'er's remark about Rubio, he's clearly in a fog.

There is absolutely no way that EG will draft Rubio because not only did JCN leave a bad taste in EG's mouth, Rubio's contract buyout clause is rumored to be around $6.5 mil.

Everyone knows that Abe will never pay that.

Then GM starts talking about the great deal that EG got for JCritt, while conveniently forgetting how EG let Mason walk after Gilby agreed to take less, which resulting in the moronic signing of Dee Brown, who of course, didn't do anything here.

GM....the Les BouleS Kool-Aid man.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Living here in Atl. the AJC posted a Q&A with the owner of the Hawks and his philosophy on his head coach and the team reaching the playoffs for the second year in a row, the owner cited continuity with the players and the coach's and how over a season the importance of the coach,gm, and players all going in the same direction, are you getting my drift fellow Wizard fans how anyone can determine that Grunfeld has done a good job is beyond me he basically ruined this past season by overpaying for Gilbert and AJ now don't get me wrong i like AJ a lot maybe not fifty million but he plays hard every night Arenas? now that was stupid 111 mil? and not improving the roster and letting Mason get away, and would some of you please stop citing the Caron Butler for Kwame Brown trade! that was a no brainer as bad as Unseld was he would have made that trade.Andray Blatche(the serial skirt chaser) still underachieves,Nick Young may be on the upswing if he works hard,McGuire showed marked improvement Pechorav has been a disaster and is more D-league than NBA ready even though Grunfeld gave he and Blatche an extension. As most of you know my main beef with Grunfeld was the firing of Eddie Jordan after just ten games it was unwarranted and unjustified and seemed more personal than performance based ten games after four straight years in the playoffs? arguably without the teams best player for two of those years and don't forget we faced LeBron, and i don't want to hear that first round krap ask Hawk fans about any playoff round after years of futility now if Flip comes in and this team at full strength doesn't make the postseason then what?

Posted by: dargregmag | April 19, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

"I wonder DC_Man will you have the guts to post accordingy next year when the Wizards finish no less than 4th in the East next year.

I wonder will you have the guts to post accordingly when Gilbert proves he worth all them millions of dollars Abe is paying him.

Have you ever admitted on this blog that you were wrong, I have.

Check this DC_Man and tell me which one are you.

A man who knows and knows that he knows, knows not.

A man who thinks that he knows and also knows that he knows not, knows.

I daresay DC_Man, the first one applies to you.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 19, 2009 4:38 PM "

Larry in Clinton....another poet that DC doesn't need.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

"and would some of you please stop citing the Caron Butler for Kwame Brown trade! that was a no brainer as bad as Unseld was he would have made that trade.Andray Blatche(the serial skirt chaser) still underachieves,Nick Young may be on the upswing if he works hard,McGuire showed marked improvement Pechorav has been a disaster and is more D-league than NBA ready even though Grunfeld gave he and Blatche an extension. As most of you know my main beef with Grunfeld was the firing of Eddie Jordan after just ten games it was unwarranted and unjustified and seemed more personal than performance based ten games after four straight years in the playoffs? arguably without the teams best player for two of those years and don't forget we faced LeBron, and i don't want to hear that first round krap ask Hawk fans about any playoff round after years of futility now if Flip comes in and this team at full strength doesn't make the postseason then what?

Posted by: dargregmag | April 19, 2009 6:03 PM "

I agree, and that trade wasn't as good as the steal the Lakers got with Gasol for Kwame.

And, if Les BouleS tank even with Flip, then that wouldn't be a surprise, given Les BouleS history.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

"Posted by: dargregmag"

What's with the run-on sentences?

Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 7:15 PM | Report abuse

"Good riddance Tappy, I could have done a better job coaching. "

Sorry, Chad 32 already laid a claim, so he gets first crack. You can coach in 2011.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

DC_Man88,

Thats not poetry, thats logic. You see what that is how you can determine how man knows something to be so, logically that is.

A man that knows what he knows, never reasons. Whereas, a man who thinks, reasons, thereby he evaluates and arrives correctly at the proper premise.

The man who thinks first also knows and will admit when he dosen't know.

The man who always knows what he knows, runs the risk of folly.

No DC_Man88, this ain't poetry, dis' iz' logic, and in case you didn't know logic can be proven by mathematical fact.

I may have wasted my time explaining that to you, but, ya' never know.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 19, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

Is it really all that important to get the top pick in the NBA draft?

Looking at the list since 1970, a few names stick out --

'70 Bob Lanier
'74 Bill Walton
'79 Magic Johnson
'82 James Worthy
'83 Ralph Sampson
'84 Akeem Olajuwon
'85 Pat Ewing
'87 David Robinson
'92 Shaquille O'Neal
'97 Tim Duncan
'03 LeBron James
'04 Dwight Howard

Nope, Larry Bird wasn't a top overall choice. Neither was #23 for Chicago.

Some of the overall top choices were outright busts, of course, but more often, they just turned into regular star- quality basketball players. Like Doug Collins, Mark Aguirre, Brad Daugherty, and Chris Webber. All terrific players, but not the cornerstones of championship teams.

The 80's saw a run of stellar centers, but there were big gaps between David Robinson and Shaq and Duncan and Yao and Dwight Howard. There'd be years where guys like Kenyon Martin, Kwame Brown, Bogut and Bargnani went first. Looking back, you have to wonder why. All that scouting, all that evaluation, and that's the best they can come up with?

You're left with the thought that maybe having the top pick isn't all it's cracked up to be. That it works best when there's a dominant big man, or a prodigy like LeBron, and not so well when there isn't.

This would be one of those years when there isn't.

All hope's not lost if the little balls don't bounce your way.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't it you who replied to me first?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 5:51 PM

Yup. because you jumped on ptp unprovoked and unnecessarily.

Posted by: crs-one | April 19, 2009 8:01 PM | Report abuse

"Yup. because you jumped on ptp unprovoked and unnecessarily.

Posted by: crs-one | April 19, 2009 8:01 PM "

Who anointed you his keeper? You're not the blog moderator.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 9:17 PM | Report abuse

"DC_Man88,

Thats not poetry, thats logic. You see what that is how you can determine how man knows something to be so, logically that is.

A man that knows what he knows, never reasons. Whereas, a man who thinks, reasons, thereby he evaluates and arrives correctly at the proper premise.

The man who thinks first also knows and will admit when he dosen't know.

The man who always knows what he knows, runs the risk of folly.

No DC_Man88, this ain't poetry, dis' iz' logic, and in case you didn't know logic can be proven by mathematical fact.

I may have wasted my time explaining that to you, but, ya' never know.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 19, 2009 7:41 PM "

I don't know what you're worse at.

Trying to be a poet, or trying to talk about Les BouleS.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 9:22 PM | Report abuse

"All hope's not lost if the little balls don't bounce your way."

That's true, generally speaking, but I don't know that it means much to the Wiz given the realities of their position.

This is a weak draft with very few (if any) players expected to be immediate franchise changers. However, the guy generally presumed to be the consensus #1 pick fits very nicely into the Wizards gaping hole in the paint. Pretty much everyone else is viewed as being a solid contributor or a project. The Wiz aren't in a position where either will do them much good. Their roster makeup and financial investment in vets means they're looking for someone who can make a difference right now, not 2 or 3 years from now.

If the Wiz don't get the #1 pick and Griffin, their options become very limited with regards to their fairly obvious goal of going into next season with a healthy team fighting to contend for the East crown, because other than Griffin there doesn't appear to be anyone they could draft who will significantly further that goal.

They could try to trade the pick if it's not #1, but the weak nature of the draft is going to depress its value on the open market. They've got the expiring contracts but (A) they most likely won't become really hot commodities until close to the trade deadline and (B) most of the offers they get for them will be salary dumps from teams trying to offload their junk. There will be some decent offers, but not likely any home runs. And other than the pick and the contracts, they don't have much in the way of trade commodities unless they're willing to break uop the big 3, which seems pretty unlikely at this point.

Point being, I agree that getting the #1 pick doesn't guarantee success and losing out the #1 pick doesn't guarantee failure, but the full measure of the Wizards' circumstances make it highly likely that if they miss out on the #1 pick, they'll likely have to count on health and internal improvement as their big offseason acquisitions, but those are hardly a give and even if they do get them, it may not be enough to matter.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 19, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Samon151, you are right man. The pick you do get is important. Dosen't matter which pick it is.

The old Charlotte Hornets had the draft rights to Kolby, but because their current coach did not believe in rookies, especially highschoolers they did a trade with the Lakers. The rest is history.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 19, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Kalo_rama,

You are good, very good. I think I accused you once on having inside information.

Maybe one day I'll find out for sure which insider you really are.

That analogy you just ran down is one reason why I have been whacking people over the head about Hansbrough. If we don't get the #1, he is the guy I see in the draft that would be a great pickup for spot role playing off the bench.

I tell you this guy from that program and 4-years of college ball is more NBA-ready than a lot of people think.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 19, 2009 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah. I'm not saying Blake Griffin isn't the best fit for us. Love to have the guy.

But there's plenty of room for luck and for skill outside of the first pick. And as the sage says, it's better to be lucky than smart.

I looked over the history of the draft, and came away with the impression that when the class is weak (like this one), the player taken first if often not the one who turns out to be the best pro.

So I'm predicting, a hunch really, that there's somebody in this class who will turn out to have a bigger impact than Blake.

No idea who that may be. And a lot depends on who gets drafted by which team, as always.

I look at a player like Harden, an average athlete with exceptional skills, or a senior like Earl Clark from Louisville, or that speed demon Jennings, or on a lesser level, Eric Maynor, and wonder, could this be the one?

I mean, Gilbert Arenas was a second round draft choice. The objection was he didn't seem to have a position -- not a point guard, not a shooting guard. Same thing you heard about Russell Westbrook last year, and to a lesser extent, OJ Mayo.

I'll be interested to see how it all turns out.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 19, 2009 11:00 PM | Report abuse

"Yup. because you jumped on ptp unprovoked and unnecessarily.

Posted by: crs-one | April 19, 2009 8:01 PM "

Who anointed you his keeper? You're not the blog moderator.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | April 19, 2009 9:17 PM

Seriously? is this elementary school?

I supported ptp and disagreed with your response. No need to be a keeper or a moderator to do that.

Posted by: crs-one | April 19, 2009 11:45 PM | Report abuse

"But there's plenty of room for luck and for skill outside of the first pick."

I agree, in principle. But, as I said, this is widely considered to be a very weak draft, and the kind of luck it would take to for the Wiz to come up with a hidden gem if they miss out on Griffin is the kind of luck that this franchise has traditionally not really had. If they miss out on Griffin it's entirely possible that they end up with a player who could still be a contributor. But the question that faces the Wiz is: Will he be a big enough contributor next season or the one after that to aid in the franchise's obvious short-term goal? In other words, will he be a contributor while the big 3 are still viable? Because if not, he'll probably be contributing to a long-term rebuilding effort.

And your citation of Arenas pretty much underscores my point. Yes he was a sleeper. Yes, he turned out to be an all-star player. But it took a couple of years for him to start honing his raw talent (and some might argue it's still an ongoing process). Could the Wiz find a guy like that? Sure. Grunfeld's done it before (Michael Redd). But while such a find could pay long-term dividends, the odds of him being what the Wiz need to achieve their goals of contention in the short-term aren't real high.

Take note, I say this fully believing that those short-term goals of contention are not especially realistic even under the best of circumstances (Griffin). Under anything less than that, however, it could get ugly (at least in the short-term). If it becomes quickly apparent that they aren't headed in the direction they're planning for, Pollin may decide to pull the plug and blow the whole thing up, which would be step one in a long rebuilding process.

"I looked over the history of the draft, and came away with the impression that when the class is weak (like this one), the player taken first if often not the one who turns out to be the best pro."

Really? Can you cite some examples? My impression has always been the opposite: When the draft is deep the best player can sometimes turn out not to be the #1 pick. In a weak draft, if the top pick is a disappointment, there don't tend to be a lot of blue chippers later on. Although there may be guys who exceed the expectation of their draft position, part of that is because in a weak draft, the expectations are a bit lower going in.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 20, 2009 12:35 AM | Report abuse

kalorama:"Really? Can you cite some examples? My impression has always been the opposite: When the draft is deep the best player can sometimes turn out not to be the #1 pick. In a weak draft, if the top pick is a disappointment, there don't tend to be a lot of blue chippers later on. Although there may be guys who exceed the expectation of their draft position, part of that is because in a weak draft, the expectations are a bit lower going in."

Fair question. Well, to avoid cherrypicking , how about a recent five year block from 01 to 06 (so as to allow two full years for development). I'd argue that span features three strong classes (02-04) and three weak ones (01, 05 and 06)

Of course everybody remembers 01, Year of Infamy, with Kwame Brown leading off. Lots of questions going into this draft, especially with three high schoolers and a Spaniard vying for the top spot. We all know how it turned out. Gasol was the gem a the third spot, though he spent his early career on bad teams.

Here are the remaining years:
02: Ming went first, as everybody predicted. They'd been waiting for him all season. Stoudemire fell to 9 because of the previous year's high schooler struggles, and Caron Butler went at 10 for reasons not understood, but Ming deserved the top spot. A moderately strong class, I'd argue, with three legit All Stars in the top ten.

03: The strongest in recent years, with James on top and four legit superstars in the top five. James still the best, however, and getting better. Wade the surprise in this class, if there was one.

04: Another strong class, although in a different way than 03. Instead of being superstar heavy like 03, the group after Howard was deep with quality players. Ther were relatively few misses (Shaun Livingston got hurt), with the big whiff being Araujo at 8. Funny, the scouts really liked that guy.

05: This I have listed as another weak class. The fact that there were two really, really good point guards in it does give me pause, but I note that they slid to 3 and 4 behind two slow-starting big men. But both turned out to be far better than either of the players selected ahead of them. Possibly the best big man went at 10, another high schooler.

06: On my list, Weak Class #3. Bargnani first, Aldridge following. Again, much discussion and debate over the top pick. The gem was Brandon Roy at number 6.

So that's my argument. It's highly subjective, of course. I tend to rate as a weak class, one where there's no really clear favorite. So you could argue that Howard was something of a controversial pick over Okafor, and you'd have a point. But that was mostly because of his age. Not much doubt he was the most talented of the lot. By then, people were afraid of high school players. Too risky.

Anyway, that's my take.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 20, 2009 6:50 AM | Report abuse

Actually that was a six year block, but you catch my drift. In the years I think are weak, there was a better player back a few spots in the draft order that teams missed.

In 01, it was Gasol. In 05, it was Paul and Williams, in 06 it was Brandon Roy. The NBA draft evaluation process basically missed a little on all four players.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 20, 2009 7:08 AM | Report abuse

In the strong seasons of 02-04, I'm arguing, they got the top pick right.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 20, 2009 7:09 AM | Report abuse

Makes sense too me. Don't know how you rate last year 08, but I'm betting and predicted that Javale McGee will turn out to be the best of his draft class.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | April 20, 2009 8:05 AM | Report abuse


Larry,

Better than Rose, Westbrook, Mayo? I doubt it. McGee can become a special player for the Wizards, but to be best of his class? This is a strong draft class some would argue it's comparable to the 2006 draft, when Paul, and Williams were selected. McGee is a project and we won't know until his 3rd season whether he will make an impact on this Wizards team

Posted by: rcnasa | April 20, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

It always amazes me when the wags at ESPN declare a draft weak or strong and everybody joins in like the lemmings marching to the sea.

I don't really subscribe to the notion that this is a weak draft class. There are some guys out there that are projected to be mid-late first rounders that are really solid prospects. And some of those players have huge upsides. Sam Young from Pitt is one example.

The book on Sam is he needs to add 3 point range to become an effective 2/3 guy. Logic and past history of similar guys says that he easily can.

Curry, Henderson from Duke, and Blair from Pitt are all other guys that given the right system are going to be very solid NBA players. And Larry's guy, Hansbrough, is going to be a very solid pro, much like Battier on Houston he'll be a glue guy in somebody's lineup.

The truth about any draft is nobody knows for about 5 years. A team just has to have a real good idea about what tools a player needs to fit in their coach's system in order to be successful, and pick the right players to fit.

A first rounder doesn't have to come in and be an instant starter and an Allstar to help turn things around next year. A guy like Thabeet could play a significant role of the bench and have a big impact.

Part of that impact could be in getting other guys back to playing their proper roles in the rotation. Blatche and Songaila aren't centers, but both have played significant minutes in the post the last two seasons.

Jamison's lateral quickness is a defensive liabilty if he spends time at the 3, but if Jamison knows he has rotation of three shotblockers that have his back, he can be taught to funnel his man to the shotblocker.

Having Jamison spend more time at the 3 opens up more playing time for Blatche in his natural postion at the 4. One added player in the right postion can ripple through the roster in a positive way, or a negative way if it's the wrong player.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | April 20, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

flohrtv,

I do agree with Jamison playing the 3 spot. But the problem is where would you place Caron? Caron is not a natural 2 guard. He would have problems and is also more of an injury liability playing the 2 guard spot. Plus, it takes Caron away from his effectiveness, and that's playing in the low post and grabbing rebounds.

I don't know the future for Songalia because if they draft a big man. His playing time would be cut and I don't expect Songalia to want to play buried on the bench when he feels he can contribute to a team.

Posted by: rcnasa | April 20, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

"This is a strong draft class some would argue it's comparable to the 2006 draft, when Paul, and Williams were selected. "

Oh, I see, you meant the 2005 draft. That's the Paul and Williams group. Although I'd rate that draft relatively weak, too, although better than the year before.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 20, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

To clarify, I'm saying the 2005 draft, with Paul and Williams, was overall not very strong. And the next draft, with Bargnani, wasn't either.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 20, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Samson151,

Thanks for the correction, but I don't see how you believe the 2005 draft was considered weak. 4 of the top 10 picks are starters on playoff teams. There are also notable players such as Granger, Ellis, Felton, Turiaf who are major contributors to their teams. Turiaf, was a key role in the Lakers last season and if I'm mistaking he's in the top 5 of blocked shots. The draft previous to that 2004 draft could be considered weaker. Besides Dwight Howard, many of the players selected were plagued with injuries.

I'm sure you understand every draft isn't going to produce future hall of famers. Of course the 03 draft was great but not every draft will have that. In fact it is usually once every 10 years, maybe the greatest draft is possibly the 96 draft. Bottom line, we cannot evaluate whether a draft was successful until after at least 10 yrs. Example, many people would have considered the 91 draft strong with Larry Johnson, etc but looking back on the draft, not many of the players had successful NBA careers.

Posted by: rcnasa | April 20, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse


excuse me, i meant to say, I don't see how you can considered the 2005 draft not very strong

Posted by: rcnasa | April 20, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Samson151 ,

I won't do a point-by-point on each year, but I'll just point out that, generally speaking, I don't necessarily think many of the classes you cited were as weak as you think. In order to judge the strength of a draft class (esp. in retrospect) I think you have to look at the whole thing and determine how many quality players, as a whole, came out of the pool. Some of the ones you cite were weak at the top but had a number of quality players later on. Where the players were picked is less important (at least to me) than how many there were. (If more good players were taken later, that's more a function of ineptitude among the GMs in the lottery than the strength of the draft.) The knock on this draft (from people who claim to know better than I do) is that after Griffin, it's pretty iffy in terms of immediate NBA readiness/impact.

That notwithstanding, the fact that solid players were found later in those drafts really doesn't counter my original point. As I said, it's very possible that the Wiz will find a player who could help them at some point later than #1. But unless everyone who's analyzed this draft is dead wrong (certainly a possibility, I suppose) it's unlikely they'll find anyone who will further their stated goal of moving into contention in the short-term better than Griffin after the #1 pick. That's been my point all along. Given the position the Wiz are in--financially, organizationally, and in terms of roster makeup and expectations--they need someone who can come in and have an immediate impact from, essentially, day one. I'm not convinced there's anyone other than Griffin who can do that for the Wiz in this draft, given their specific needs.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 20, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Fair enough.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 20, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

"This is a strong draft class some would argue it's comparable to the 2006 draft, when Paul, and Williams were selected. "

Except I haven't seen/heard a single one of the people who are paid to make such judgments put forth any such argument.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 20, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Playing Butler at the 2 part time would allow him to take smaller two's into the post.

This year the Wiz played Butler at the two but didn't really tweek the offense to take advantage of his strengths.

Suanders won't make that mistake. He'll play classic NBA ball, which is playing to the strength of the matchup presented.

Eddie was more of a "system" offense guy. God knows what Tapps was running, some of his stuff was plays that I'd have had a middle school squad run. Pretty simple stuff and basic stuff. Suanders will change all of that.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | April 20, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

rcnasa: "2005 draft was considered weak. 4 of the top 10 picks are starters on playoff teams. There are also notable players such as Granger, Ellis, Felton, Turiaf "

Well, it's ultimately subjective. But here's my reasoning:
1) There were only 2 players with an immediate immpact: Paul and Williams, and neither went in the top two.
2) others have developed more slowly. Bogut's injuries haven't helped, and Marvin Williams shows sign of emerging, and Danny Granger has become an All-Star candidate.But that's not an exceptional record for a draft class.
3) Felton, Webster, Villanueva, Frye, Shelden Williams, Ike Diogu, have had their moments but seem to me like rotation players but far from stars.
4) The best big man in the class is probably the guy who went 10th.

Anyway, it's subjective. My opinion is outside of those two guards and possibly Granger, the class hasn't had much impact yet.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 20, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse


I don't know how you can consider the 06 draft poor as well. You have to give it 10 years to know whether a draft class was or was not successful. But looking over the 06 draft list. The first one is easy Rondo won a ring as a starter for the Celtics. Bargnani had played well late in the season and quite a few players selected are playing overseas.... Roy won ROY and Alridge was a steal from the Bulls. You have to give drafts time before you can rate it. If you only using the 2003 draft as a comparison then no draft this decade would compare.

Posted by: rcnasa | April 20, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

It also comes down to where you're setting the bar. Is it the number of stars or the number of players who are good enough to be high level contributors on quality teams? Stars are few and far between to begin with, but after you get one, you still need plenty of those other guys.

The '06 draft is a good example. The only real star to emerge so far is Roy. But there are plenty of guys who fall into the second category:

Bargnani, Aldridge, Gay, Thomas, Rodriguez, Rondo, Lowry, Farmar, Gibson, Millsap, Powe. Some showed signs right away, some took a little longer, and some of them still have star potential. If you draw the line at perennial all-stars, then most drafts are going to look pretty weak.

Posted by: kalo_rama | April 20, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

"You have to give it 10 years to know whether a draft class was or was not successful"

Well, I guess I better look at 1988-98, then.

Strong vs. weak draft classes is of course a relative judgment. If you disagree about whether a class was strong or weak, then you'll disagree with the conclusions. No way around that.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 20, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

I don't necessarily think many of the classes you cited were as weak as you think. In order to judge the strength of a draft class (esp. in retrospect) I think you have to look at the whole thing and determine how many quality players, as a whole, came out of the pool.

----------------

I think that brings up an interesting point. How many of those classes that are up for discussion were thought to be weak then proved strong? It's hard to tell if there's a devin harris or gilbert arenas buried in there until well after.

Not really a challenge to anything anyone is saying. As it always is, it will be interesting to see how this draft class pans out

Posted by: crs-one | April 20, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

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