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More Draft Buzz

The latest rumor has the New York Knicks interested in moving up to No. 5 in order to take one of the many players they reportedly covet -- Stephen Curry, Jordan Hill or Jrue Holiday. According to NBAdraft.net, the Knicks have offered guard Wilson Chandler as part of a package to move up. The report also states that the Knicks might be able to add the No. 5 pick without sacrificing the eight pick, which I find a bit implausible. Chandler is a decent player -- the 6-foot-8, soon-to-be third year swingman averaged 14.4 points and 5.4 rebounds in Mike D'Antoni's high octane offense last year -- but no way is he worth the fifth pick straight up. Especially not after recently having surgery to remove bone spurs from his left ankle. The salaries don't match up, either.

Minnesota is also reportedly trying to acquire another high first-round pick -- the Timberwolves already own three first round picks, including No. 6 -- with the hope of getting Connecticut's Hasheem Thabeet or Ricky Rubio. New General Manager David Kahn sounds like he wants to be a big mover and shaker on draft night, but it's hard to see how any of his assets -- Mike Miller, Randy Foye, and the expiring contracts of Brian Cardinal and Mark Madsen -- could get the Wizards to budge. Kahn has said that no player on his roster is untouchable, but I cannot see him using Kevin Love or Al Jefferson for the fifth pick.

I can easily see the Wizards moving down in this draft, since, based on conversations that I've had with people around the league, there really isn't much separation from the players in that four through 10 range. It really comes down to how desperate a team is to get that one player it desires. I spoke with a player agent who told me that from his conversations with league executives, there will be enough trades this Thursday to blow away any wild draft day in recent memory -- including 2006, when there were 15 trades on draft night. The wackiest night belonged to Foye, who pulled off a draft night hat trick as he was drafted by Boston, traded to Portland then traded to Minnesota.

I can also tell you that unless he is totally blown away, Ernie Grunfeld does not plan on trading any of his Big Three (Gilbert Arenas, Caron Butler or Antawn Jamison) in any deal. His hope is to use the fifth pick as his primary asset in any deal, not the pick and one of his top three players. The goal is to add to the Wizards' core, not subtract from it.

And, as Sports Illustrated's Ian Thomsen mentioned in his latest column, the Wizards would also love to unload Etan Thomas's expiring contract in any deal. Thomsen also mentions that Dallas is interested in moving up, with the intent of drafting Hill.

Did anybody happen to see Thomas at the White House on Friday? He was invited by President Obama to take part in a special Father's Day event. Dwyane Wade, Alonzo Mourning, Darryl "DMC" McDaniels from Run DMC and former Pittsburgh Steelers Coach Bill Cowher were also in attendance.

By Michael Lee  |  June 21, 2009; 9:36 AM ET
 
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Next: The Missing Holiday, Rubio Slipping?

Comments

that Nicks deal is preposterous. If Ernie gives up the 5th for money and trash, then there is no reason why anyone should continue to pull for this team.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | June 21, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

For the Love of God, Ernie, make a deal that gets KLove's elbows in a Bullets (mis-typed as w-i-z-a-r-d-s) uni in 2009-10.

Posted by: MikeNelmsReturns | June 21, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

The Wiz should keep the pick and draft Curry. If they can move Etan, MJ, Dixon, Stevenson,Pech I would do it in a heartbeat.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | June 21, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

i really think trading etan and James at this stage is terrible move. Those guys provide no value to a trade partner, so including them in a deal with the 5th pick would not enhance the quality of the player the wiz would receive in return. In fact, I think including those 2 duds reduces the value of the 5th pick. Therefore, the only reason why Etan and James would be included would be to clear salary. Is that the message the organization wants to send after a 19 win season? However, Etan and James would have a lot of value at the trade deadline, when losing teams would want to add expiring deals to their roster in exchange for long-term deals. In this scenario, James and Etan would present an opportunity to get a good player in exchange for players that currently have no value.

If they trade the 5th pick

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | June 21, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

i really think trading etan and James at this stage is terrible move. Those guys provide no value to a trade partner, so including them in a deal with the 5th pick would not enhance the quality of the player the wiz would receive in return. In fact, I think including those 2 duds reduces the value of the 5th pick. Therefore, the only reason why Etan and James would be included would be to clear salary. Is that the message the organization wants to send after a 19 win season? However, Etan and James would have a lot of value at the trade deadline, when losing teams would want to add expiring deals to their roster in exchange for long-term deals. In this scenario, James and Etan would present an opportunity to get a good player in exchange for players that currently have no value.

If they trade the 5th pick

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | June 21, 2009 10:27 AM

-------------

could not agree more. Also, for the short term having extra depth at center and point guard is always a good thing.

***Moving down to #8 is fine with me since the Wiz would still be able to get someone from the Curry/Evans/Flynn camp along with personal fave, DeJuan Blair. The one player associated with the Knicks that I would LOVE to get is David Lee. If there is a sign-and-trade scenario possible, do it!

***Also totally agree about Kevin Love. Do what you can to make the dream come true!

Posted by: b_standig | June 21, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

that makes the most sense...why trade your top players and a top 5 pick for a top player?

the butler for joe johnson
jamison for pavlovich and wallace
5th pick nick young for ginobli,allen
5th pick for wilson chandler?

those deals by all means ernie please dont make. even with jamison 5th pick and mcghee for stoudamire doesnt add up.

i think we have proven when healthy we can compete with anybody in the league. The wiz can compete with the team we have, we just need one or two more pieces a healthy team and the wiz will be fine. I like the continuity grunfield preaches teams like san antonio. los angelos, even detroit for a while all have been teams that kept continuity. One or two more complimentary players and the wiz will be fine. i like the:

1- arenas
2- young
3- butler
4- jamison
5- haywood

now heres the issue...we need a high energy player coming off the bench(could be blatche) and a lights out shooter(could be stevenson) like jr smith and then we will be fine. so trading down does make absolute sense

Posted by: mrhney03 | June 21, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

We can't just trade the pick for Chandler because we're over the cap. Salaries have to match to within 125%+100k.

If we're just trading for Chandler alone, that means the only players with salaries that come close enough to matching are McGee, Crit, and Pech.

I'd do Pech and the #5 for Chandler and the #8. I think the Knicks would be stupid to do that deal, but whatever. Maybe D'Antoni can get something useful out of a 7' tall, career 30% three point shooter.

Posted by: yop32 | June 21, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Ernie Grunfeld does not plan on trading any of his Big Three (Gilbert Arenas, Caron Butler or Antawn Jamison) in any deal. His hope is to use the fifth pick as his primary asset in any deal.

Wake up Wizard fans....Ernie is going to trade the pick for a vet who can help right now. The the only way he can save his job is by the Wizards making the playoffs this year!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 21, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Wilson Chandler?!

Yeah, because there's clearly nothing this team needs more than yet another no-defending, no-rebounding jumpshooting "big" man, right?

Ye gods.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

the butler for joe johnson

If that deal is on the table, Grunfeld would be nuts not to pull the trigger. Conversely, the Hawks would be fools to even consider it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

SI.com's rumor's page
This hardly is unique for a weak draft, but league sources indicated the Bulls have had conversations with several teams trying to package their Nos. 16 and 26 picks for a single higher selection in the June 25 NBA draft. Several media outlets, including the Tribune, confirmed one of those teams is New Jersey, which owns the 11th pick. It's unclear which player the Bulls might want and believe might not be available at No. 16. Syracuse guard Jonny Flynn, Duke swingman Gerald Henderson, Wake Forest guard Jeff Teague and Wake Forest forward James Johnson are among several players who have intrigued the Bulls.

Chicago Tribune


what do yall think the value will be at 16 and 26? Ty Lawson,Dajuan Blair,BJ Mullens who else should be around for those picks?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 21, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

it seems like there isn't that much drop off in the level of play of the players at the top of the draft and the guys projected for later in the round. i can see the wiz getting a sam young, danny green, hansborough,austin daye or any of the other later round projections with the two picks chicago wants to move.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 21, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Trading either Thomas or James along with the draft pick is so that Wiz will be able to absorb the salary of the incoming player (presumably earns more than a rookie).

BTW, I would mind trading #5 with Knicks for David Lee.

Posted by: sagaliba | June 21, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

If the Wiz draft Curry, a later trade for Lee would work in a S&T. Etan Thomas and Mike James expiring deals have value now, contrary to some posts. Neither player has any real value to the Wizards on the court right now (sorry)given the other players we have on the debth chart. The Wizards would need to come up with about $10m is my guess to equal the Lee deal so they might have to throw in some other contracts to make the money work. It could be expanded to include Blatche for example and the knicks could give back Mobleys expiring paid by insurance contract. Some form of trade might just work with the Knicks---though I think Curry is an outstanding player and would not mind keeping him and trying to move NY/Blatche, AJ and some expirings for Boozer or Milsap if that was possible. I love Jamision as a person but his lack of defense is a liability on this team.

Posted by: wizfanatic | June 21, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

"Second interesting tidbit: Vescey says that Gene Banks will likely be hired as an assistant coach because he made a "strong impression," whatever that means. Whatever. The worst part, to me, is that Vescey said he beat out the recently fired Kevin McHale, who was also very much in the mix. I'd much prefer McHale, a big man with a good reputation for individual teaching, than Gene Banks. Our young bigs desperately need a teacher and there are few who could teach better than McHale. "

Is there any chance we can bring Mchale in as a big man coach. I have long been advocating to bring in a great big man coach. LA has Kareem for Bynum. Orlando has Ewing for Howard. Mchale would be a great addition for both Blatche and Mcgee. Look what he did for Garnett and Al Jefferson.

Posted by: AWizinLA | June 21, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Wilson Chandler? That's it? What happened to Larry Hughes and Wilcox for the pick?

Posted by: CBell29 | June 21, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

"Look what he did for Garnett and Al Jefferson. Posted by: AWizinLA"

Or what Kevin Garnett and Al Jefferson did for Kevin McHale.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 21, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

A deal that works salary wise is Etan and James with the #5 for Chandler and Hughes.

Would you do it??

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 21, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

I think you are underestimating mchale. He had the greatest up and under in the history of the game as well as an array of other post moves. Championship pedigree and he knows something about tough defense.

Posted by: AWizinLA | June 21, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: AWizinLA | June 21, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Chandler? why, is the wizard in a desprate situation for cup space?I do not think it should be a factor at this point.There is no reason for a 1 to 1 trade for a team who is trying to improve and willing to pay tax.Wilcox is a reasonable rebounder and could give some energy but does he desrve #5 pick?. If They take thomas and give up their #8 pick , it might be some thing that wiz need to look.I think the best trade would be mike miller, Hinirich,Raja bell,rip hamilton and David lee.These 4 players have a good chance to improve the team.

Posted by: gtefferra | June 21, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Is this a joke:

the butler for joe johnson

If that deal is on the table, Grunfeld would be nuts not to pull the trigger. Conversely, the Hawks would be fools to even consider it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 12:16 PM

Sort of a crazy comment - so I'll assume it's a joke. Butler is arguably as good and has a five times better contract and ten times better attitude. I think everyone in the NBA - with the exception apparently of Kalorama - would consider Caron (with all the intangibles) the much better half of that deal, and no way in heck that EG would ever do that.

Anyways, it was a silly comment. Like the guy who says we should trade Thomas, Pech, James, and Stevenson for Stoudimire and Nash and Richardson. Good plan! Let's do that. Problem solved.

Posted by: Urnesto | June 21, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Also, Kalorama: Your comment from two days on Rubio is just wrong. I don't know if RR called you directly to tell you the truth and then misled ESPN, but apparently you're implying that's so. If Rubio sinks, he sinks. The Kings aren't sold and neither are the rest. There is a TOTAL possibility that Rubio will fall. Why you have to be so dismissive constantly as if you have Kalorama's "Inside Scoop" is totally beyond me. Just be cooperative - instead of just declaring this or that wrong as if God just texted you the answer. It's all conjecture, ok? Even your stuff. So, be a team player, cause it's coming off like a crazy blowhard. You know? Maybe you're right; maybe others are right. But maybe you shouldn't be so dismissive. Because your opinions - which is what they are - don't really seem that clever at all. So just play it cool. Thanks.

Posted by: Urnesto | June 21, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Urnesto, you must be confusing Joe Johnson with Josh Smith. I like Caron, but Johnson is far a better SG than Butler is a SF.

Posted by: djnnnou | June 21, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Timberwolves already own three first round picks, including No. 6 -- with the hope of getting Connecticut's Hasheem Thabeet or Ricky Rubio.

Does the t'wolves think either will be available at 5???

If one is the Ernie has to pull the trigger & get him.
Else trade - trade - trade.

Posted by: VBFan | June 21, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Ricky Rubio and his current team, DKV Joventut, are in the process of negotiating down the buyout portion of Rubio's contract.
The price tag at this point is $6.6 million with only $500,000 eligible to be paid by his prospective team. It may be a contributing factor to some teams turning him down of late, and if he can negotiate it down it may reawaken interest.
Source: Sacramento Bee

Posted by: VBFan | June 21, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Hughes is also an expiring contract. I would consider it if there are no better options and NY is not showing improvement. But its not the answer past this year but given the wizards mandate to win now for Abe, I can see the wizards giving up the pick to improve now with a proven vet. Right now, if its still at all possible Amare might come in some deal with the Suns, I think you hold onto the expiring contracts and the pick. It seems some deal is going to be made and one may go down soon but probably on draft night.

BTW my prediction, Rubio goes second because someone is going to trade up to get him. Thabeet third. The next ten picks are close calls.

Posted by: wizfanatic | June 21, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

I'd take Danny Granger for Caron.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 21, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

"Butler is arguably as good and has a five times better contract and ten times better attitude. "

At absolute best (for Butler) Butler is arguably as good. At worst for Butler (and the actual facts--you've heard of them right?-- bear this out) Johnson is a better shooter, playmaker, ballhandler, and more athletic. As for Johnson having a bad attitude . . . bull. There's nothing to suggest he's got an attitude problem, certainly nothing since he's risen to all-star status with the Hawks. In fact, since landing in Atlanta he's gotten mostly nothing but praise for his leadership of a young team. Again, utter B.S.

As for Butler's contract being "10 times better" . . . more crap. Johnson has 1 year left at about $14 mill. Butler has 2 years left at about $10 mill per. Apparently your knowledge of math is as faulty as your knowledge of bball.

"Your comment from two days on Rubio is just wrong. I don't know if RR called you directly to tell you the truth and then misled ESPN, but apparently you're implying that's so."

Ahem:

Ricky Rubio and his current team, DKV Joventut, are in the process of negotiating down the buyout portion of Rubio's contract. The price tag at this point is $6.6 million with only $500,000 eligible to be paid by his prospective team. It may be a contributing factor to some teams turning him down of late, and if he can negotiate it down it may reawaken interest. Source: Sacramento Bee

You should get surgery to repair that anal fissure, because crap is leaking out of your ass at an alarming rate. Oh, wait. That's your mouth. My bad.

(I'd thank VPFan for saving me the effort of looking up a source for this but the simple fact is that no real work was required. Any 5 year old with an internet connection and two hands could have found numerous sources indicating how a large buyout has always factored into teams begging off drafting overseas players high in the draft. Which makes me wonder (A) how old Urnesto is and (B) what, exactly, Urnesto was doing with his other hand while he was typing his nonsense.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

"Why you have to be so dismissive constantly as if you have Kalorama's "Inside Scoop" is totally beyond me. Just be cooperative - instead of just declaring this or that wrong as if God just texted you the answer. "

You mean like this:

Your comment from two days on Rubio is just wrong.
Posted by: Urnesto | June 21, 2009 3:45 PM

So, in addition to being clueless on matters of basketball and finance, you're also a f%$king hypocrite? Seems about par for the course.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

My bad. I said you called Butler's contract "10 times better" when you only said it was "5 times batter." So I guess that only makes you half as wrong as I said. Of course, that still means you're wrong by a mile when measured against the actual facts. But in your position, I guess you have to take whatever small victories you can get.

Congrats.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 6:09 PM | Report abuse

What a great father's day gift to see kalorama and urnesto going at it.

Actually, I feel a little vindicated by this article since it basically says everything i posted in the past few weeks (under the name blurred). only i said no difference between 5 and 17 and they say 4 and 10.


what do yall think the value will be at 16 and 26? Ty Lawson,Dajuan Blair,BJ Mullens who else should be around for those picks?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 21, 2009 12:27 PM

I still like Maynor and I'd bet he available at 16, if not 26.

Would love to get Davis Lee but doubt its happening...anyone know when his contract is up? As I've said before, the knicks are playing for the summer of 2010 and want to get Bosh, Letravel and Wade on the same team, thats 3 x $18million for 7 years or a total of $54 million in cap room they need to clear, so they might be willing.

I'm still pulling for a trade that gets Gerald Wallace in here...but doubt it would happen. rather have him than Amare, even with his nagging injuries.

Posted by: jefsadler | June 21, 2009 7:02 PM | Report abuse

I don't know that I would say Joe Johnson is a far better player than Caron at all and the facts back me up:

Caron - 20.8 4.3 6.2
Johnson - 21.4 5.8 4.4

In addition, in what I considered a down year for Caron, he also had a higher field goal % .453 to .437 and a higher FT% .858 to .836

So, I think the only difference between them is whether you are in the market for a SG or SF.

Funny how a down losing season clouds people's perspectives.

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 21, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

"In addition, in what I considered a down year for Caron, he also had a higher field goal % .453 to .437 and a higher FT% .858 to .836"

Looking solely at overall FG percentage doesn't necessarily tell you who's the better shooter. Ben Wallace shoots 47% FGs for his career. Is he a better "shooter" than Johnson?

Butler had an overall FG% because he took more of his shots from closer around the rim (30% of Johnson's shots were 3 pointers versus 20% for Butler). Johnson shot 37% from 3pt range last season to Caron's 31% (pretty much career averages for both as well). Johnson also averages more assists and fewer turnovers (both last season and for their careers).

No one is saying that Caron isn't a very good, legit All-Star player. But Johnson is the more well-rounded all around player (and the one thing Butler is best at, scoring, Johnson is just as good at). Whether that makes him better depends on what attributes you value. On a team with a number of one-dimensional players, a guy who does multiple things well could be very valuable.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 7:47 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't the Wiz be over the luxury tax, if they traded both picks for 2010 picks, cut Dixon and accepted the forced player option contracts for James and Thomas? Is there any way to pressure these two by saying that they will be "inactive" as long as there are 12 other healthy bodies, and if they appear on the active roster that they would only be used in emergencies or "garbage time" (25+ points up or probably down)? If either wanted to play 2010-11 they might want to do something else.
If so, might they consider trading the picks and "someone" for future picks just to clear salary? I'm assuming that Juan is the only one they can "drop".

Posted by: lrmc623 | June 21, 2009 7:59 PM | Report abuse

That only works if there's a market for their services at least equal to what they're making now, should they leave the Wiz. There isn't. James is 34 years old and has never been anything other than a marginal backup on a good team or a stat hunting non-factor on a bad one. Thomas is 31, has never made it through a single NBA season without a significant injury, and is coming off major heart surgery. Teams won't be lining up to throw money at these guys. Factor in the down economy and the odds are very good that when their current contracts expire, their NBA careers will be over. Even is someone does sign them, it won't be for anywhere near the amount of money they'd be giving up. (And for the record, Thomas doesn't have a player option for next year, so the only way they could just dump him would be a buyout. but the same principle still applies.) There's really no incentive, either financial or basketball, for them to volunteer to leave money on the table and walk away from the Wiz.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 8:13 PM | Report abuse

I guess I could see the one demensional Wilson Chandler as the Wiz 7th or 8th man...but is he worth swapping the spots for, even if they take ET or MJ? I dont think so, as he really does not fill either of the Wiz primary needs...3 point bomber at the 2 or interior scoring/defending ability.

Also, why would the Hawks trade Joe Johnson? They probably wouldnt make the playoffs without him...

Posted by: oddjob2 | June 21, 2009 8:14 PM | Report abuse

I really like the idea of the Mike Miller trade..

I love this trade. Miller would be perfect for us and we would be able to stay in the draft at #18. Miller is a GREAT passer and a GREAT shooter which are two things we desperately need. We get rid of Etan and Pech (thank god). Miller instantly makes any team he plays for better. He rarely makes mistakes, he’s got great size and can play the point when arenas is on the bench. He is a complete player and he actually plays decent team defense. One on one defense is questionable.

Originally I wanted Hinrich but the more i think about it, Miller makes much more sense. Sure, Hinrich is younger but his contract would be awful for us. With Miller we can see how the year goes and then extend his contract for a much cheaper price than Hinrich’s would have been which gives us flexability to resign Haywood and maybe add another piece if necessary. This trade would be absoultely perfect for us. We would have legitimate depth across the board.
Arenas- Miller- Butler- Jamison- Haywood

James- Young- Steveson- Blatche- McGee and Dom and whoever we draft

The question is, however, who do you take at 18?? best player available?

Posted by: jeffco01 | June 21, 2009 8:32 PM | Report abuse

"Also, why would the Hawks trade Joe Johnson? They probably wouldnt make the playoffs without him..."

They wouldn't.

If that deal is on the table, Grunfeld would be nuts not to pull the trigger. Conversely, the Hawks would be fools to even consider it.
Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 12:16 PM

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 8:34 PM | Report abuse

I said a couple years ago that the Wiz needed someone like Miller coming off the bench to bolster their playoff chances. They still do, but between age and declining production, I'm not sure the actual Mike Miller is what they need at this point. On the flip side, he's only got 1 year on his deal, so it wouldn't affect their cap status. I don't think the reward would be that high, but the risk would be pretty much nonexistent.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 8:39 PM | Report abuse

Your a little off Kal.

The Ben Wallace analogy is absolutely meaningless here. I know what your reaching for, but your still reaching. Butler's game is a 15 ft midrange game as it should be for a SF. Of course Johnson takes more 3 pointers, he is a shooting guard. So, you can say Johnson is a better long range shooter. But, he is not a better overall shooter. And you conveniently left out the fact that while Johnson may be a better "playmaker", Butler is a superior rebounder as he should be.

Like I said and you inferred as well, it really depends on whether you need a SG or SF bc otherwise they are pretty much the exact same "caliber" player much like the LeBron/Kobe debate. Although, I can give you 4 reasons why Kobe is a better player than LeBron...lol.

So, if your starting a team, to me it's a 50/50 toss up as to who you would take. I believe they are even about the same age as well.

This all sprung from someone's comment that Johnson is a far better player than Caron or something to that effect, which is categorically and absolutely false.

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 21, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Here is a question:

Does the general FG % include the 3 pt % as an aggregate or is the 3 pt % filtered out of that stat???

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 21, 2009 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Wilson Chandler may be an undersized 4 and may not do anything but shoot, but if anyone remembers this past season, he tore Les BouleS a new one almost every time they played.

Oh well.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 21, 2009 8:54 PM | Report abuse

Your a little off Kal.

The Ben Wallace analogy is absolutely meaningless here. I know what your reaching for, but your still reaching. Butler's game is a 15 ft midrange game as it should be for a SF. Of course Johnson takes more 3 pointers, he is a shooting guard. So, you can say Johnson is a better long range shooter. But, he is not a better overall shooter. And you conveniently left out the fact that while Johnson may be a better "playmaker", Butler is a superior rebounder as he should be.

Like I said and you inferred as well, it really depends on whether you need a SG or SF bc otherwise they are pretty much the exact same "caliber" player much like the LeBron/Kobe debate. Although, I can give you 4 reasons why Kobe is a better player than LeBron...lol.

So, if your starting a team, to me it's a 50/50 toss up as to who you would take. I believe they are even about the same age as well.

This all sprung from someone's comment that Johnson is a far better player than Caron or something to that effect, which is categorically and absolutely false.

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 21, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

I haven’t posted in a while but here are my pre-draft thoughts:

Looking at last year and our roster we have several priorities as I see it this week. We need to solve the problems of our lack of low post toughness and defense, our poor 3 point shooting and our pitiful 3 point defense. If Gilbert comes back close to himself he solves the 3 point shooting problem. If Flip’s defensive schemes can help us, then the 3 point defense issue should improve somewhat. These are 2 “if’s” but there has to be a plan that either assumes these or addresses these. My plan assumes that these are easier to improve within the existing roster. But we are not sure what Ernie’s thinking is and of course that’s the one that counts.

So I would focus on the front court defense as priority #1. We have the luxury of filling a need because of our nice roster and the fact that apparently experts are saying that the 4-15 spots are not that distinct. I would love to see us bring in a Birdman, Maxill, Pietrus type guy as a 20 minute sub off the bench to bring energy, attitude and toughness. I thought that McGuire would be that kind of guy. I like him still but he brings other assets. Whether 6’7’ or 6’11’ it is attitude, energy and fire that we need most. Drafting Blair would fit that. Trading down to the Knicks for David Lee who also somehow gets the job done would also solve that. So whether we pick or trade I would love to see that issue solved. Drafting Curry for the Knicks, trading him for Lee and getting Blair with our pick would really thrill me also. This would transform our front line instantly. I would love to see us start one of them and bring AJ off the bench, but I know that is just a pipedream. Abe wants him to start. I would dangle Blatche in front of the Knicks as well as the others with contracts that we want to dump, Thomas and James, and see if they will bite on that. We must to get tougher to compete with the Celts, Cavs and Magic. Otherwise we may as well just blow the whole thing up.

BmoreRev

Posted by: stanlong23 | June 21, 2009 9:47 PM | Report abuse

miller is a guy I'd love to see on the wizard's bench, he can do a bit of it all and the man can flat out stroke it, chandler's got some talent too, I'd trade down 3 spots to pick him up the problem is though that both of these guys should really play the three, a position where caron and dom should be using all 48 mins. I love caron but I'd give the nod to johnson on who's better.

Posted by: bford1kb | June 21, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Does the t'wolves think either will be available at 5???

Posted by: VBFan
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No, the deal is that T'wolves is trying to accquire the #5, and together with their #6 to trade up to get either Thabeet or Rubio.

See: http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/outlet/2009/jun/20/twolves-eying-5th-pick/

Posted by: sagaliba | June 21, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse


Here is a question:

Does the general FG % include the 3 pt % as an aggregate or is the 3 pt % filtered out of that stat???

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 21, 2009 8:49 PM

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FG% includes 3 point attempts and makes.

Posted by: Hawaiiexpat | June 21, 2009 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Both Butler and Joe johnson are good players. They play in diffrent position, your argument might not come to a point about these two players.There is no need for them to swich teams, both teams game is not going to improve, infact Atlanta might miss their court leader.Both players take equal shoots for their team, Butler might not be a good leder. Johnson is the best defensive SG in NBA,I believe he is one of the few complete SG in NBA, I like to have him in washington but bringing him for butler is not going to improve the team.DM is not going to take the load on the offense from SF, plus there is a chemistory issue, johnson always play with the ball, diffrent from what he used to do while he was with the suns.

Posted by: gtefferra | June 21, 2009 10:00 PM | Report abuse

" Johnson is the best defensive SG in NBA,I believe he is one of the few complete SG in NBA..

Posted by: gtefferra | June 21, 2009 10:00 PM "

Sorry, Kobe wins that title hands down.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 21, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Your entire argument seems founded on the distinction between SG and SF, a largely meaningless distinction here because both players play both positions. Johnson's more expansive skillset makes him better suited to swing between multiple positions than Butler, as we saw last season with Butler logging extended minutes at SG. Moreover, the idea that there's a particular shooting range that belongs to SFs and another one for SGs is utterly without foundation. Lots of SFs take lots of 3 pointers. Many SGs don't shoot a lot of them. There is no hard and fast rule that says only SFs shoot here and only SGs shoot there. Johnson has more range on his shot and shoots a better percentage on shots that are tougher to hit. By any reasonable definition, that makes him a better shooter.

Moreover, even if your claim about dedicated shooting zones by position were true, it would actually support my point more than yours. At 6' 7" (listed, he's pretty clearly not that tall), Butler is actually a bit undersized to be a primary, dedicated starting SF. SG would actually be the more natural position for most players his size. An argument could certainly be made that one of the reasons he's mostly played SF is because he lacks the very skill you claim defines the position: distance shooting. So rather than his being a good shooter for a SF, he's actually a guy who plays SF because he lacks some of the skills (outside shooting and ballhandling) to be a full-time SG.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 10:41 PM | Report abuse

None of this is a knock on Butler, BTW. He's a helluva player. Pointing out that someone else is better isn't an insult to him.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Kalorama brings up a legit point... the old format of two guards, two forwards, and one center is now more often one point, two wings, and two bigs. Also attributing all Butler's struggles to playing the two isn't quite right... probably many of the turnovers were from trying to take on too much responsibility on offense with so few weapons on the team.

Posted by: GshawnJohnson | June 21, 2009 11:04 PM | Report abuse

"Also attributing all Butler's struggles to playing the two isn't quite right... probably many of the turnovers were from trying to take on too much responsibility on offense with so few weapons on the team."

That's very true. But it's also directly related to the switch to SG, where top-level players at the position generally have more ball-handling and playmaking responsibilities than at SF.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 21, 2009 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Oviously Butler's ball handling is his longtime problem.I agree with kelo's analysis about johanson and butler but my point is the impact of johanson to wiz is not going to be significant if we miss butler.One thing that we are not able to see is the butler of 2006 when he was leading the team with rebound.He did that because he was told to do it, he was in compitition with jarvis hayes and jeferies for the position. In the last two years butler was trying to assume a role that he can not accomplish,( leader), he take too much balls, he wants to be a passer, he almost stop driving the ball to the basket for two reason's
1/ his shooting% is fine since no body else is taking shoots, coaches are not saying any thing.
2/he is taking heavy minutes.
In 2009-10 the situation is going to be diffrent.Butler is going to be an allstar again, he is going to play from Arenas. will go deep around the rim and will have reasonable minutes since DM's ability to defend will demand minutes.Butler is not an extremily bad defender, he had good games against Artest, james, paul pierce, jeferson and others. his weakness is to track down his counter player from behind the arc, which is the problem of the team that is going to improve with sounders zone matchup plan.
Do not worry about butler and jamison, commitment is already made on these so called big 3, the time to depart from this philosphy is not now but it could be around the trade dead line probably including the EG(the manager), if things are not going right.

Posted by: gtefferra | June 22, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Butler's TO's should go down and his rebounding should improve if he isn't asked to handle the ball as much. Whether he plays the 2 or the 3, the return of Arenas should alleviate his need to handle the ball as much + he won't be the No. 1 focus of the defense. Butler functions best when he is the No. 2 option on the offense and his assists come more naturally than trying to function as a facilitator. I'd expect either DSteve or whoever we draft at No. 5 to receive a significant portion of the PT at SG such that Butler would only play the 2 if matchups warranted it.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 22, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

I expect Butler to have a huge year in terms of efficiency. With Arenas back on the floor as the primary option, Butler will have far less reason to take shots when a good option isn't available. He'll have more chances at easy looks.

He's an extremely good 3rd option. Trying to be the first option just isn't a good fit for his skills. In essence, I think he was just trying to do too much. With Arenas back (we all hope), he can settle back into a role in which he excels.

The Mike Miller type guy is exactly what we need, but I think the Mike Miller that's available right now is just not the guy he used to be. Honestly, I think the most important part of a starting shooting guard for the Wizards is defense (is this Stevenson or DMac or a trade from our #5?). We already have 3 very solid scorers starting. The biggest question mark for me is if Young or Blatche or a combination of the two can turn into consistent bench scoring.

Posted by: jon_quest | June 22, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Kalo_bitter - Joe Johnson is notorious for disappearing in big games. He has a bad attitude in that he is not a winner - he's a gunner on bad teams. No, he is not an "attitude problem" or "lockerroom cancer" as you interpretted it, but he is not a winner or a leader. That is a talented team, but they don't play to their potential because Johnson takes off the first 3 months of every season and gets scared in big games. Read "Hawks Insider" or whatever, and you'll see just how frustrated those fans are. To use baseball analogies, he's got an A-Rod attitude (not a Sheffield attitude) and neither is particularly conducive to building a winning team. Second, you showed that Butler had a much better contract so I'm not sure why you're trying to gloat on that one. Butler's contract -- off the top of my head -- is roughly 40% of Johnson's and both are for a one-time all-star. That actually is about 5 times better. Third, I think it's common knowledge that Johnson is one-dimentional whereas Caron adds new features and redefines himself every year. And I agree that Caron will be better this year as the 3rd option.

But anyways, Kalo-blowhard, I asked you to just play it cool yet you continue with this crap that your info is correct and everyone else is brain-dead and playing with themselves. I bet you know that's not true. So stop with the personal insults, continue to try to learn more about the game of basketball (and I do agree this is a great place for you to start - as you could learn a lot from the posters here), and again just be chill. If you need me to explain basic basketball concepts to you, so that you can keep up with the rest of us here, I'll certainly help you out. Good luck!

Posted by: Urnesto | June 22, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

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