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More Trade Rumors

As I've stated before, this time of year, there are several rumors that get floated around, names get mentioned, people start to get in a tizzy. One minute it's Ricky Rubio, then it's Amare Stoudemire, then it's Josh Howard. Now, the latest is talk about the Washington Wizards having a deal on the table for Manu Ginobili for a package involving the No. 5 pick.

The website, Hoopsworld, has a purely speculative story about it and now it's all over the Internet. I still don't know what the big deal is. Until I see something meaty, there really is no need to overreact.

From what I hear, this is what went down: The San Antonio Spurs contacted the Wizards to inquire about what it what it would take to get the fifth pick. The Wizards' response was Ginobili -- and that was the end of the discussion. That's not exactly a trade proposal or a deal on the table.

Other than Ginobili the Spurs really don't have much to offer. As one team source told me, "They don't have a thing for [No.] 5."

The San Antonio Express News' Buck Harvey wrote a column this week in which Spurs Coach Gregg Popovich said the team is not considering moving Ginobili, although his ankle injury has derailed San Antonio's past two postseason runs and he will be a free agent in 2010. Popovich said, "People get in trouble when they say never. But Manu Ginobili is someone I cannot envision trading. He has been such a huge part of our heart and soul; people like that are hard to come by. You don't even think about trading somebody like that. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be traded."

The Wizards know this, which why they made that reply. Does the mean that Ginobili won't be traded? No. The Wizards have made it pretty clear that they are open to moving the pick. So, rest assured, this will not be the last trade rumor between now and June 25.

By Michael Lee  |  June 12, 2009; 2:08 PM ET
 
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Next: And So It Ends ...

Comments

If the Wiz mentality is to seriously push for a championship, then you've got to trade Manu for NY.

Guy has won multiple championships and even at 32 will give us alot more from the #2 than DeShawn Stevenson (who also likes to get injured, by the way).

On the Spurs he was basically the second scoring option and had to do alot. With the Wiz he won't have to carry as much of the load and won't have to push himself nearly as hard every night.

NY is still a project. Whoever we get at #5 is going to be a project. The Wiz aren't rebuilding; they expect to win now.

Posted by: p1funk | June 12, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the report, Michael. I favor the Wiz trading the pick if they can get a player or players that will help them win now.

We have enough young guys who are not able to click on all cylinders yet (some maybe never will) and we don't need another.

Posted by: cannontl | June 12, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

I think Michael's post pretty much indicates that a trade of our #5 for Ginobili will not happen.

I doubt if SA would be interested in NY either.

Posted by: cannontl | June 12, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

That shows how hard it is to trade for a great player without giving up a great player.

But they gotta keep workin it. A few more weeks of this and we'll get something.

Posted by: cballer | June 12, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Ray Allen, anyone?

Posted by: GshawnJohnson | June 12, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Not that it surprises me but its a peek at EG doing his thing.

I will not bet against EG and think we are going to be suprised at what we can get back for #5 and a contract.

If we keep the pick, the only guy I want is Curry. Anyone who thinks he will not be able to score in the NBA is nuts.

Imagine Arenas penetrating and defenders needing to decide whether to help out and leave Curry open. And/or Nick Young.

I hope its Curry or whatever is behind Grunfelds curtain #2.

Posted by: UltimateFootballNetwork | June 12, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Guy has won multiple championships and even at 32 will give us alot more from the #2 than DeShawn Stevenson (who also likes to get injured, by the way).
Posted by: p1funk | June 12, 2009 2:44 PM

he likes to get hurt, by the way?? he has had exactly two injuries since he was drafted 10 seasons ago. Manu on the other hand has not played one 82-game season in 7 years. ur an idiot.

Posted by: prescrunk | June 12, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

"Other than Ginobili the Spurs really don't have much to offer. As one team source told me, "They don't have a thing for [No.] 5."

I'll take Tim Duncan for the pick, and throw in Nick Young.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 12, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I'd be surprised to see SA trade Ginobili. He took less money to stay with the Spurs, and a small market team like the Spurs has to value that kind of loyalty.

Posted by: djnnnou | June 12, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

with all the Nick young talk apparently many of you don't know that the Bullets/wizards history is we trade our young players for over the hill players on other teams.

Manu would have been a great trade 3-4 years ago. trade for him now, what will you get. 2-3 good years? Meanwhile, nick young under a better system and coaching might thrive, ala Rip Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace, and others.

Posted by: oknow1 | June 12, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

thank you mike for the end of the trade rumor fun

Posted by: jasperhneyaolcom | June 12, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I like NY...but he needs to really step up.

i am over Blatche though. If we ditch him, I am sure he will become an all-star, but for now he gives us a 20-10 once every 3 months and only then because the other team doesn't run at him. If you drive on him 5 times, he'll pick up 4 fouls.

I asked on one of the previous posts but no real answers: Does anyone think the Bobcats might be willing to deal Gerald Wallace? If so, does anyone else think he is worth picking up? What about Okafor?

Posted by: Blurred | June 12, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I'm a big fan of Wallace. But where do you play him? And what would the trade look like? Once you've got wallace on your roster, do you need Caron? I don't know Wallace's game well enough to say that he is an upgrade over Caron (he's probably a better defender and rebounder, but that's it). If you get wallace, then maybe you trade caron for an very good 2 guard.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | June 12, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Yeah - thats the thing...I don't know what Charlotte would want - if anything - for Wallace.

I can't see ditching Butler for him, but maybe moving Butler to the 2 and letting wallace play the 3. In fantasy leagues, Wallace is allowed to be played at the 2, 3 or 4. he plays big like a 4, but can't defend some of the 7 footers, and fast like a 2, but he really sits as a 3. I'd just love to have him as an addition to the core we have now.

Posted by: Blurred | June 12, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

""Other than Ginobili the Spurs really don't have much to offer. As one team source told me, "They don't have a thing for [No.] 5.""

I have a trade that works:

BouleS get: Parker, Mason, Oberto, and spurs pick

Spurs get: Gilby, DS, and 5th pick

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lqadsg

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 12, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

I think Arenas is untradeable right now. He has that monster contract that is sticking around for six...count em...1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 more years. That's tying up nearly 25% of your cap room until 2015 on a knee that is completely untested.

For our sake, Gilbert needs to be a rocket on the court. if he is, then we don't want to trade him. If he isn't, we are stuck.

Posted by: Blurred | June 12, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Trading old for young OR big for small are two types of trades that never have worked for the Wizards/Bullets. Ginobli is an old 32 and has never been healthy for an entire year. To give up the No. 5 pick plus one of top young players (NY or AB) makes no sense to me. Look at the trade the Mavericks made to get an aging Jason Kidd....they've actually taken a step back and probably wish they hadn't made the deal.

I think EG is looking more at a trade that would land a player like David Lee of NY the No. 5 pick plus one of our bad expiring contracts.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 12, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

"I think Arenas is untradeable right now. He has that monster contract that is sticking around for six...count em...1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 more years. That's tying up nearly 25% of your cap room until 2015 on a knee that is completely untested.

For our sake, Gilbert needs to be a rocket on the court. if he is, then we don't want to trade him. If he isn't, we are stuck.

Posted by: Blurred | June 12, 2009 4:44 PM "

What a revelation.

EG signs someone to a killer contract who is essentially untradeable.

That's kinda like paying $1 mil for a 45 year old split level home in Culpepper that failed inspection during the housing boom with zero down and an ARM.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 12, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Spot on, wizfan89.

Trading young and tall for old and small has been a disaster before for the Wiz. Reminds me of the Mitch Richmond trade which seemed OK but was a complete bust because Mitch was pretty much done by the time he got here. Ginobli was, and perhaps still is, a very good player, but the sands in his hourglass are pretty much done and the Spurs know it.

Posted by: ArchieTambo | June 12, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

I agree with some of the posters here...why the heck would we trade a #5 with what could be a 20 point scorer for an over the hill player??

If we trade the #5 it has to be for a player in their mid to late 20s....makes no sense to trade a high pick for some guy in his 30s...

Although I would trade the #5 for Shaq and a lower pick straight up...

Posted by: insanity999 | June 12, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

I am all for the Wizards trading down but staying in the top 12.

The Knicks are an ideal trade partner. But they cannot trade RFAs Lee or Nate in a S&T until after the draft, in July. Ideally, the Wizards would get some cap relief. I would include NY or Blatche in the right deal that gets us back a guard (Nate) or PF (Lee).Personally, if Etan and James are included I would also take back Jeffries 2 year deal (he is a versatile role player who plays good perimeter defense) or Hughes (good chemistry and defense) expiring to slot as the starting 2 guard next to Gilbert. The knicks may feel desperate if they cannot trade up to 2 to get Rubio and feel Curry will go 5th, 6th, or 7th. I doubt the Wiz pick 5th but if they do I hope they choose Derozan--he will be a beast at the 2 and 3.

Posted by: wizfanatic | June 12, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

the key is to trade the worst of what you have too much of - in this case: 5 underperforming 7 footers and an overacheiving 6'8" center (Pech, Etan, Blatche, Haywood, McGee and Song: I'd keep Haywood and McGee) - for something you need badly - either a SG that can nail 3's all day long and play some D or an outstanding ballhandling PG (is this Crittendon?) that can push Arenas to 2.

Or - the flip side is we get rid of one of our 4 underperforming SGs (James, NY, Stephenson and Dixon) for a Monster 5.

The thing is, if their contracts are small and we don't want them, who will?

This draft is solid with hard working performers and weak on potential allstars. This 5 is like a 12 in another year. Actually, this year's 5 is like this year's 12 - there is no real clear difference after the 3 until the 20. You get a solid undersized player or a project either way.

Trade down - get a solid vet (not manu) and pick up an extra 1st rounder in like 2012.

Posted by: Blurred | June 12, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

There should be a lot more trade talk around Pietrus. The guy gave Lebron and Kobe fits; and he's only making $5M a year. He could start in the backcourt for us opposite of Arenas.

Orlando already has Nelson, Rafer, Lee, and Lue in the backcourt. Hedo is a free agent and it will take $10M to keep him.

Orlando could trade Pietrus for the 5 pick and then have their choice of our bench players (e.g., Blatche, Young, Stevenson, etc.)depending on whether they can keep Hedo.

It's worth a run...I hope EG is feeling the desparation that the rest of us are feeling about this team.

Posted by: Izman | June 12, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Izman is making some sense...all this talk about getting bosh or some other superstar for a 5 pick in the worst draft ever plus a NY or Blatch is silly.

We need to look at picking up a solid, proven player on the upswing. If you don't get this year's 1st rounder from Orlando, then pickup an extra 2nd and a future 1st rounder. I'd take pietrus over anyone we could get at 5.

Posted by: Blurred | June 12, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

All these wild trade scenarios are funny.
To work a trade you need to have something that someone else wants.
What do the Wizzies have that someone else wants?
We have a 6'10 center that just had heart surgery.
A $120million pt gd that just had two (2) knee surgeries.
a 7 foot Ukrain shooting guard.
A 7 foot skirt chasing doofus that only plays when he feels like it.
A 6'6" guard that has a lot of fun and is always smiling---- why? no one knows.
A 6'5" guard that just had back surgery.

Now if you were gonna work a trade with the Wizzies who would you want???
Ernie ain't gonna trade anyone until he sees who is healthy.
There's a possibility that half of his team is either re injured, in jail or doing stand up comedy.

Posted by: VBFan | June 12, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

smiling fun-guard
Amistad Blatche ('GIVE US FREE')
DStevenson's 'back-i-otomy'

...VBFan for the win

Posted by: audiohysteria | June 12, 2009 7:16 PM | Report abuse

What do the Wizzies have that someone else wants?

Expiring contracts and the number 5 pick for someone who wants to move up.

We get there lower 1st rounder along with giving them an expiring contract so we can use our 2nd round pick.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | June 12, 2009 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Just whose expiring contract would they want?
Why not just pay the lux tax for someone that you want instead of paying for someone that you don't want???

Posted by: VBFan | June 12, 2009 8:52 PM | Report abuse

This is sort of fun (from SI)

"Highly touted draft prospect Brandon Jennings called Spanish sensation and potential No. 2 pick Ricky Rubio overhyped and not even the top point guard in the draft.

"Well, put it like this: If he was in a workout with me [and fellow point-guard prospects] Jonny Flynn, Jrue Holiday, Tywon Lawson, Stephen Curry, he wouldn't probably be at the top," Jennings said Friday.

When asked if he thought Rubio, who has received great attention but has not worked out for NBA teams, is all hype, he said without hesitation, "Yes. Because he played in the Olympics, he's been playing pro ball since he was like 14. So there it is right there. ... I can't wait to play him, though, in summer league. I'm just letting you know that now. I can't wait.

"Yeah, I think I'm a better player than he is. I just shoot the ball better than he can. The only thing I've seen him do sometimes is when he has a home-run pass or something like that. I think the dude is just all hype. I can't even front. I'm just going to be real with you guys."

That sound you hear is NBA GMs crossing Jennings off their list...

Posted by: Samson151 | June 12, 2009 9:22 PM | Report abuse

I don't see anything wrong with those comments. Thats just a competitor calling it like he sees it and saying he can't wait to go at him. I havnt heard if Rubio is doing any work outs so I guess you have to wait till summer league. He might be right.

Posted by: AWizinLA | June 12, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Just whose expiring contract would they want?
Why not just pay the lux tax for someone that you want instead of paying for someone that you don't want???


Posted by: VBFan | June 12, 2009 8:52 PM

It dosen't matter which one they want. They can pick which ever one they want.

Thats the deal to get to pick at my #5 slot and for me to take there lower 1st round slot.

In other words, whats the incentive for me to swap down in the first round?

The incentive is, you got to take one of my expiring contracts so I can use that slot for my 2nd rounder.

Thats the deal for any organization thats wants to move up to the 5-slot.

Its got nothing to do with the player, it is the expiring contract.

Do you get it now?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | June 12, 2009 11:30 PM | Report abuse

NO!

Posted by: VBFan | June 12, 2009 11:43 PM | Report abuse

awizinla: "I don't see anything wrong with those comments....He might be right."

You don't? Picture something similar about the opponent's star player showing up on a bulletin board in their locker room the night before the big game...

Posted by: Samson151 | June 13, 2009 12:37 AM | Report abuse

he likes to get hurt, by the way?? he has had exactly two injuries since he was drafted 10 seasons ago. Manu on the other hand has not played one 82-game season in 7 years. ur an idiot.

Posted by: prescrunk | June 12, 2009 3:38 PM


Missed 35 games and is rehabbing from spinal surgery to repair a hernianted disk.

And I'm an "idiot" for wondering about his durability?

You can keep DeShawn's mediocre career and his fragile spine. I'll go ahead and take Manu with his injuries...at least they come with some rings and All-Star appearances, you chump.

Posted by: p1funk | June 13, 2009 12:59 AM | Report abuse

I think Jennings is right, at least in part. I doubt that he's the only player in this draft who holds that opinion - he's just the only one to voice it.

Rubio is in all likelihood the most overhyped player in this year's draft. He's young, he's inexperienced with the American game, and (as Jennings notes) he isn't a great shooter. He's riding into the draft on a lot of hot air in the press, both here and abroad. It's a recipe for disaster. The game is also remarkably different over here, and those Euro skills don't always translate. I hope the kid does well, I think it would be good for the league.. but I think it's more likely that Rubio will go down as JCN part II, rather than the second coming of Rudy Fernandez. Thank God the Wizards don't have the option of drafting him.

Posted by: satchmore | June 13, 2009 2:09 AM | Report abuse

well said.................... satchmore | June 13, 2009 2:09 AM

Posted by: toohoes | June 13, 2009 2:46 AM | Report abuse

Here's the thing about trades. If they're not going to make you better, or save you money, or give you assets to use to do one of the aforementioned, why do them?

If you're already a playoff team, is making a trade that does not help get you to the finals worth anything? Maybe if it's to get younger but stay just as good. But if you look at our team, our three best guys are not about to get better. They are either at the top of their game or just passed it. Haywood is not about to get any better. Stevenson isn't. Crittenton, Young, McGuire, Blatche, and McGee still have room for growth, but unless one of them takes a huge leap next season, they're not going to push us into the finals.

So why make a trade for a 'solid vet?' What does that get us to? Not very much. Bringing in a 'solid vet' for some expiring contracts is fine. That's a fair trade. But giving up the 5th pick, or one of our young, and very affordable players for an older guy who can only do a little bit more, and only for another couple of years just makes no sense.

And as for Lee from the Knicks. Yeah, he puts up numbers. He runs the floor well and he rebounds well. But that's pretty much it. He is not a good defender, and he is not a guy who can create offense on his own. Is he worth the 5th pick in the draft? No.

Posted by: segastyle | June 13, 2009 3:39 AM | Report abuse

Guy has won multiple championships and even at 32 will give us alot more from the #2 than DeShawn Stevenson (who also likes to get injured, by the way).

Posted by: p1funk | June 12, 2009 2:44 PM

How can you say that of DS? before he got injured he had the second longest run without injury! he kept on playing even with an injury. Nowadays lot of those players are on the injury list the moment they think they might have an injury....

I am not saying DS is the best player but he has shown some endurance!!

Posted by: Goelez | June 13, 2009 6:15 AM | Report abuse

The Wizards cannot, repeat, cannot move far up in the standings next year, much less go deeper into the playoffs, if they stand pat and wait for some high risk youngsters to mature. If a team that has a potential near term difference maker at the 2-guard (it won't be Mickael Pietrus but it could be Josh Howard, Michael Redd, Jamal Crawford or Mike Miller), sees value in a $6-8 million expiring contract, thinks they can straighten out Andray Blatche or Nick Young and wants to trade up in the draft, this is a deal that MUST be made.

The mid first round pick we get with the two guard could then be used to get a banger like DeJuan Blair or Earl Clark.

At that point, if Gil's health and hops are back, the Wizards become a deep and scary team.

Posted by: khrabb | June 13, 2009 8:46 AM | Report abuse

Not ideal. Not scared by the age. I'd take a flyer on his injury history. But I think the Wiz need bigger, inside, tougher rebounders & defenders more than they need a 4th scorer. So much so that I would rather they take a "B-" PF or C that fits this need, rather than a "A-/B+" scoring Guard...

Having said that I don't think that value we are hearing about at 5 equals Manu and I would rather they do this than take Harden or Derozen

Posted by: juno77275 | June 13, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

They both are damaged goods. Ginobili, moreso than Stevenson. But, you donot give up a 5-pick and a young player for an old broken foot one. HELLO!

Some teams will not draft a young Ty Lawson because of his toe.

Gemme a break. Ginobili is fools gold.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | June 13, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

If you can get Thabeet it changes the whole Team. He backs up Brendan, McGee moves to PF and battles/pushes Blatche. AJ goest to the three and Butler goes to the two.

That throws ETAN and DSON and MJ deep on the bench, if we haven't gotten rid of them by trading them so that we use our 2nd pick as bait to add another player who can really help off the bench.

JC, NY, and Dom and DSTev are off the bench first along with a PTBN.

Also, this means that ETAN, OPECH, and MJ are in slots 13,14,&15. They wear suits on the sideline.

Iffin's ya' think that lineup won't kick some butts, ya' beddar' think agin.'

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | June 13, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Thabeet strengthens the Wizards weakest position, and he gives Grunfeld some insurance and a backup plan if Brendan gets a very lucrative offer from another team in FA.

A shotblocker who can step off of his man and force a driver to at least think twice when he comes to the rim covers a lot Jamison and Butler's weaknesses. If a player is a little under gifted in the area of lateral quickness, with a shotblocker behind him, he can be taught to steer his guy to an area of the floor.

How do you think all of those slow footed guys play such great D in San Antonio? How is it that Turkalou is a decent defender in Orlando,when he couldn't protect "a lamp post from an old dog trying to take a leak" in Sacramento? Shotblockers on the backline.

Thabeet's not without his warts, that's why bringing him in to work in a tandom with Haywood would be ideal. This Wizard's team isn't in a rebuilding mode, but to be a contender they've still got some building to do.

With all of the manuvering going on, somebody is going to move up for Rubio. I can't see Memphis standing pat and taking Thabeet or Rubio.

Lots of guys keep saying that NY make sense as a trading partner for the Wiz. A Memphis NY deal makes even more sense.
Memphis could fill a need at the 4 w/ Lee, and could have NY's pick. NY could land Rubio to run D'Antoni's uptempo game and not have to tie up money in Lee that they could use next summer.

That leaves OK City as a logical trade partner for the Wiz. Most of the guys OK City seem to like could still be there at the 5th pick. OK City is very young and building, they could possibly pickup the player they like and get some other assets in the deal.

Ernie will perform a stare down with them right up until it's time to pick. I still think he's targeting Thabeet...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | June 13, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

"I think Jennings is right, at least in part. I doubt that he's the only player in this draft who holds that opinion - he's just the only one to voice it."

Well, there's always at least one overhyped player in every lottery. And Europeans do have an adjustment period -- like Bargnani.

But Jennings is mostly just woofing. For all his ability, he didn't do much in Europe this year. Here's the line: around 18 minutes a game, 38% FGs (brought down by a miserable 21% from behind the arc), a couple assists and 1.5 TOs an appearance. The media over there wondered what was wrong with him.

Nothing, obviously -- he was the stranger in the strange land. He's the jet in this draft (along with Jonny Flynn) and a legit creator on offense. If you had to compare him to a present NBA player, it's probably Monta Ellis -- skinny, blindingly quick, and not sure what to do in the half-court. On talent alone, he's a top six player, but for a team that will let him play his style -- otherwise he's like a racehorse that won't let go of the bit.

When he says he's better than Rubio, he means he's quicker and more athletic -- that's true. But nobody in Europe thinks they're comparable, as least not yet.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 13, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Two others PGs that Jennings put as possibly superior to Rubio:

Jrue Holiday is another guy coming off an underwhelming season: 8.5 points in 27 minutes, 3.7 assists, 1.5 TOs. But was playing off the ball and that's not his natural position. Also, he's 6'4" and 200 lbs and potentially a better matchup against NBA types.

Jonny Flynn had the best season of the three, and has bulked up to almost 200 pounds. He's 6'1" and not really a 3 point shooter yet.

I think Jennings is correct that they might all outperform Rubio in a workout. In a game, however...

Posted by: Samson151 | June 13, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

I think the Wiz have the best chance to land a decent veteran between the draft night and last trade date. They have to be patient and evaluate their current roster, pick the best player at #5 and a future talent at #32.In order to land mano there is no need to give NY, mano's salary is 9million, if spurs are interested in #5 pick 3.1million+ thomas 7.5million will be 10.6 million.The wiz will have a chance to take the spurs 1st round pick or take cash from spurs.This will help the wiz
1/ to have a superstar who can change the game if he is healthy
2/ a spot to sign another big man
3/their salary cup will be 76 million after they sign their second round pick and mano, payinglexuryn tax for half a year while winiing is not as bad as just paying tax.

Posted by: gtefferra | June 13, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

trading nick young would be the stupidest move for the wizards i like manu but hes 32 while nick young is ten years younger i really think that he will be something even when the wizards draft ny gilbert said give him 4 years and he be an all-star. yy 4 years cuz hes immature u see him laughing for no reason. i think the wizards should just keep the pick n wait till all-star break before trading play. KEEP NICK YOUNG!!!!!

Posted by: BlackHibachi | June 13, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

It's a real head scratcher for me as to how so many posters seem to believe the Wizards could be serious contenders next year. The last we saw of Gilbert, he would have been faster carrying that bad leg than dragging it behind him. I hope he has made dramatic improvement but, just because he has thus far missed his annual knee surgery, does not mean he is going to be the all star guard he once was when he returns.

Jamison is another year older but thankfully his game is not dependent on speed or hops.

CB was a huge disappointment to me last year. I expected him to set the tone on the court, don't care about his toughness in the locker room, and he just melted into the background. I am no longer sure he has any chip at all.

More and more I think all of the talk about how injuries have robbed this team of opportunity is just a red herring, other than Gil in his prime I simply don't think the "leaders" of this club are elite players.

I am sure this will be viewed as a negative post but I have been a Bullets/Wizards fan for 30 years. Given the recent history, and still pending health questions, I personally think a realistic goal for this team would be just to get back to playing .500 ball and potentially making the playoffs.

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | June 13, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

It's a real head scratcher for me as to how so many posters seem to believe the Wizards could be serious contenders next year

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | June 13, 2009 12:47 PM


please please please please please please please please, dont hop on the bandwagon for next season, because AGENT ZERO will win come back player of the year, yes i said it, and washington will win the se division next season...yes i said it again!

when healthy my squad can compete with anybody, and no competitor after being kicked in the mouth will come back and lay there again. shadow knows please holler back in may of next year

Posted by: mrhney03 | June 13, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

I would not trade Nick Young; I don't want the same curse to be on us when we traded Cweb for Mitch; EG should know better than although Manu is good but he isn't worth giving up someone like NY who is almost 10 years younger

Posted by: svafai2000 | June 13, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

I was looking at the historical part of the Wizards site, specifically, the retired jerseys.

Gus Johnson was 6-6, 230.

Wes Unseld was 6-7, 245.

Earl Monroe was 6-3, 195.

Elvin Hayes was 6-9. 235.

My point is that the Wizards should just forget about measurements and hype, and hypothetical "upside", and pick somebody like one of those guys.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | June 13, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

mrhney03,
I don't do "Bandwagon"...as I already stated I have been a long time follower of the team and would enjoy nothing more than the Wizards to be a threat in the east. That said I simply choose to base my opinion on what I have seen from this group. There are simply too many known deficiencies (zero defense, no inside scoring, overall maturity) and altogether unknowns (Gil's knee, NY playing to potential, Blatche's desire, DS's back, Crit developing a jumper and on and on...) to be projecting the team to be a contender next year in June of this year.

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | June 13, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Manu with the Wizzies????
He'd fit right in.
Multiple foot surgeries.
He could join the Wizzies HMO.
He's a helluva player when he's healthy but I think he's a bigger crap shoot than Nick Y. or the Ho chaser given his age & injuries.
I think Ernie is gonna take the best player available at #5 and see what happens up til the trade DL.

Posted by: VBFan | June 13, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

With Les BouleS luck, Manu Ginobli =

Mark Price

Bernard King

Mitch Richmond

Moses Malone

Terry Catledge

Christian Laettner

Ike Austin

etc...

A day late, a lotta short.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 13, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

My point is that the Wizards should just forget about measurements and hype, and hypothetical "upside", and pick somebody like one of those guys.

Posted by: PostSubscriber | June 13, 2009 2:04 PM

So just pick a known future perennial All Star at the 5....ahhh that sounds good. So without looking at physical characteristics can you name a couple of the absolute certain future perennial All Stars who will be available for us at the 5 spot?

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | June 13, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

"please please please please please please please please, dont hop on the bandwagon for next season, because AGENT ZERO will win come back player of the year, yes i said it, and washington will win the se division next season...yes i said it again!

when healthy my squad can compete with anybody, and no competitor after being kicked in the mouth will come back and lay there again. shadow knows please holler back in may of next year

Posted by: mrhney03 | June 13, 2009 1:08 PM "

LOL!

Gilby was supposed to be the comeback player of the year on this blog for the past 2 offseasons until the actual season started and he couldn't go.

LMFAO!

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 13, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

How can you say that of DS? before he got injured he had the second longest run without injury! he kept on playing even with an injury. Nowadays lot of those players are on the injury list the moment they think they might have an injury....

I am not saying DS is the best player but he has shown some endurance!!

Posted by: Goelez | June 13, 2009 6:15 AM


I'm talking about THIS year.

35 missed games and back surgery to repair a herniated disk, he's rehabbing, he's not even going to be in playing shape by the start of the year - that's damaged goods.

My point is that if you are rolling the dice on a shooting guard going forward, I'd take Manu.

They BOTH have injury concerns. Except when Manu is healthy he can give you All-Star caliber minutes.

What does a healthy DS give you? Some OK perimeter D and a streaky 3-point shot? Guys like that are a dime a dozen in the NBA...

Posted by: p1funk | June 13, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Im starting to think that we should stand pat and take Curry or Harden. Either one of these guys can turn into a 20 point scorer and I believe both are ready to contribute next season.

Then wait until the trade deadline and move Etan and James' contracts for a vet big on the block. Maybe Camby for example.

At that point our 14 man roster looks like this...

1: Gil, Critt
2: DSteve, Young, Harden or Curry
3: CB3, McGuire
4: Jamison, Blatche, Songalia, Pesh
5: Haywood, Camby, McGee

That's a solid team from top to bottom, outside of Pesh.

Posted by: DMoney28 | June 13, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

From Chad Ford @ ESPN re: Celtics rumor of trying to get Evans in the draft: That leaves the Wizards, who are really intriguing. Allen is a fit in Washington. The Wizards are a veteran team that is looking for another piece to make it a contender. Allen also is in the last year of his contract, which means the Wizards could get some long-term cap relief if they put together the right deal. Would trading Allen for Etan Thomas, Mike James, Darius Songaila and the No. 5 pick make sense for the Wizards and Celtics?

Works for me, though I'd rather move DS that Songaila. Perfect fit for this team if they can stay healthy.

Posted by: rocky123 | June 13, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Oh, let me add also:

Michael Jeffrey Jordan

Too many retreads.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 13, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

"So just pick a known future perennial All Star at the 5....ahhh that sounds good. So without looking at physical characteristics can you name a couple of the absolute certain future perennial All Stars who will be available for us at the 5 spot?"

I'd be perfectly happy if Abe Pollin would call up Grunfeld and say "Ernie, at no. 5 pick a player like Wes Unseld or Gus Johnson. If DeJuan Blair fits that mold better than Jordan Hill, then pick Blair. Don't pick Hill just because of height."

You apparently wanted to reduce my point to an absurdity, but the absurdity is that no one can predict the future -- yet ftrying to predict the future is exactly what everyone involved is trying to do.

Is it absurd to want a player "like" Gus Johnson or Wes Unseld on this Wizards team?

Posted by: PostSubscriber | June 13, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

"Would trading Allen for Etan Thomas, Mike James, Darius Songaila and the No. 5 pick make sense for the Wizards and Celtics?"

The Wizards would just be trading their pick to get rid of Songalia's contract. Unless they plan to trade Allen later in the season, and that seems like a risky (and convoluted) way to improve the team.

Posted by: djnnnou | June 13, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Is it absurd to want a player "like" Gus Johnson or Wes Unseld on this Wizards team?


Posted by: PostSubscriber | June 13, 2009 3:25 PM

Of course not, your initial post though made it seem this was a simple matter. As suggested in your response it is the furthest thing from it. Just struck me as funny to give a short list of the best players in franchise history and say grab someone like this.

Posted by: The_Shadow_Knows | June 13, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"Upon further review", to make the Celtic trade work according to the league $ rules, you'd have to include DS as well as Songaila, Thomas and James with the #5 pick to get Allen and a #1 or 2 pick. Then sell the pick. You'd get rid of 2 contracts as well as gain a lot of cap room in 2010. Clean house while getting a vet 2 guard for one last run before AJ gets much older.

Posted by: rocky123 | June 13, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

postsubscriber: "Gus Johnson was 6-6, 230.
Wes Unseld was 6-7, 245.
Earl Monroe was 6-3, 195.
Elvin Hayes was 6-9. 235.
My point is that the Wizards should just forget about measurements and hype, and hypothetical "upside", and pick somebody like one of those guys."

What do you mean, like one of those guys? You mean, really, really good?

OK, somebody pass that on to Ernie Grunfeld. This time, Ernie, pick somebody good.

I think Wes was 245 at one time -- maybe as a high school senior.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 13, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

"You apparently wanted to reduce my point to an absurdity, but the absurdity is that no one can predict the future -- yet trying to predict the future is exactly what everyone involved is trying to do."

Well, no offense, but your point as you stated it initially sounded pretty absurd. He didn't have to reduce it much.

About predicting the future -- people correctly predict the future all the time. They just don't know it at the time. There were a whole bunch of scouts and GMs who were convinced that Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley would turn out to be better players than Sam Bowie -- but the Portland GM wasn't one of them.

What you can do is use analysis to develop probabilities on which to base your decisions. You can tell by looking at the numbers, for instance, that few players under 6' succeed at a high level in the NBA, while still leaving room for Muggsy Bogues and Spud Webb. You can tell by examining past history that a player who hits only half his free throws in college is probably not going to improve to more than 70% in the pros -- knowing that there will be several exceptions to that, too. You know that a 6'3" wing guard will have an advantage over a six-foot defender without eliminating the possibility of a Chris Paul or a Rajon Rondo.

Just because Wes Unseld was a great center at 6'5" doesn't mean he didn't struggle against taller players -- he did. And though it's entirely possible that DaJuan Blair will be a star at PF in the NBA, he'll have to overcome a significant handicap in terms of his size and weight (he's working hard on the latter).

So maybe you meant something quite sensible in your original post, but if so, you disguised it well.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 13, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Man I love reading these comments. I think we should all meet up at a bar or something an hour before the draft and go at it.

Posted by: DC-fan | June 13, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Man I love reading these comments. I think we should all meet up at a bar or something an hour before the draft and go at it.

Posted by: DC-fan | June 13, 2009 6:24 PM

Good Idea.
We could do drafts on draft night.

Posted by: VBFan | June 13, 2009 8:03 PM | Report abuse

Trying to predict the future is exactly what everyone involved is trying to do.

Only we here are without significant info. The GM's and other decision makers on teams are conducting intense investigations into players that might be available when their pick time comes.
We don't know much about potential picks. If you ever had to hire someone to work with an established group you would know that it is just as important to know how he will fit in with the group as well as if he can do the job. There are many intangibles that must be looked at before any GM can commit the $'s to someone. Sure, if there is a LaBron or Kobe you gotta take them but at the #5 and below you need to look hard and long. Then in most cases it still comes down to a crap shoot.

Posted by: VBFan | June 13, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

vbfan: "Trying to predict the future is exactly what everyone involved is trying to do.Only we here are without significant info. The GM's and other decision makers on teams are conducting intense investigations into players that might be available when their pick time comes.
We don't know much about potential picks. If you ever had to hire someone to work with an established group you would know that it is just as important to know how he will fit in with the group as well as if he can do the job. There are many intangibles that must be looked at before any GM can commit the $'s to someone. Sure, if there is a LaBron or Kobe you gotta take them but at the #5 and below you need to look hard and long. Then in most cases it still comes down to a crap shoot."

That sounds reasonable on the surface, but I don't think it is. There are definitely some holes in the available data on the top ten or twenty players. But those holes are probably not enough to say the draft's a 'crapshoot'.

Informally, I'd suggest we have the best data on upperclassmen who played at high-profile programs -- Blake Griffin, for instance, or Hasheem Thabeet. We naturally have less reliable impressions of players like Ricky Rubio because they spent their entire careers in Europe and US scouts just don't attend practices or see many of those games. We don't know much about freshmen who didn't make an impact (like Brandon Jennings or Jrue Holiday), but both have been rated highly since high school, so they're not exactly unfamiliar to us. A true young European player such as Oleg Pecherov remains the biggest gamble of all, and that's why most teams won't take it.

I'm suggesting that if teams just followed the available data, they'd take a lot of the risk out of the process. Not all of it, by any means, but a lot.

Teams don't do that. Instead they get excited about this player or that one, or begin considering issues such as 'fit' with their existing team, and become worried about some other GM grabbing the guy before they get him, or worst of all, they start paying attention to the media and the fans, and disaster strikes.

The process of selecting young players is difficult enough when you use your head. But when your gut gets involved, watch out.

The NFL draft, on the other hand, particularly the mid to late rounds -- now that does seem like a crapshoot. And so does MLB and NHL...
Posted by: VBFan

Posted by: Samson151 | June 13, 2009 8:35 PM | Report abuse

I don't think it is absurd to try to compare a draft prospect to present or former players. In fact that seems to be an everyday pastime.

Both nbadraft.net and draftexpress both include an effort to compare the player to a prior player.

E.g., Curry is compared, best case, to Mike Bibby, and worst case, to Janero Pargo, by draftexpress.

Jordan Hill's best case is a better rebounding Chris Wilcox; worst case is Ronny Turiaf.

So anyway, I'd like the Wizards to draft a player whose toughness and rebounding ability are like Gus Johnson, or Wes Unseld. Is that asking too much? Just extraordinary toughness and rebounding. I don't care whether that is with the 5th pick, or lower.

Here's a recent article about Jordan Hill that I came across.

http://dimemag.com/2009/06/nba-draft-09-stock-jordan-hill/


Posted by: PostSubscriber | June 13, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

There are definitely some holes in the available data on the top ten or twenty players. But those holes are probably not enough to say the draft's a 'crapshoot'.
Posted by: Samson151
"THIS" draft IMHO is a crap shoot. Especially where we are picking and below. There will be teams that get a diamond and there are many more that will get stones.
Will Blake G. be a super star??? Probbly.
Will Thabeet & Rubio ??? Less Probbly.
And the further down the draft more less probable.

Posted by: VBFan | June 13, 2009 10:00 PM | Report abuse

postsubscriber: "So anyway, I'd like the Wizards to draft a player whose toughness and rebounding ability are like Gus Johnson, or Wes Unseld."

No, but it does increase your risk of distortion, based on how well the comparison player has performed. For instance, if you compare Curry to Mike Bibby, you're employing an image of a player who started strong and tailed off in the NBA. Curry's career arc could turn out quite a bit different, in one direction or the other.

Still, it's fun to do, which is why it's popular.

"I'd like the Wizards to draft a player whose toughness and rebounding ability are like Gus Johnson, or Wes Unseld."

OK, fair enough -- you're getting more specific, and that helps accuracy. You've placed a value on two traits above the others -- above, for instance, height, reach, leaping, foot speed, quickness, strength, basketball IQ (if there is such a thing), not to mention passing, shooting, or shotblocking. Unseld and Gus are both rather short, muscular guys who worked best inside, so based on that, it sounds like you'd prefer somebody like DaJuan Blair over, say, Jordan Hill or Hasheem Thabeet, who are longer and not quite as physical. If that's not true, it's the impression you gave from your comparison.

"Jordan Hill's best case is a better rebounding Chris Wilcox; worst case is Ronny Turiaf."

Interesting comparison, but not one I'd agree with, based on an evaluation of him as a player. It gets pretty subjective, pretty quickly. I might suggest you'd do better if you avoided comparisons altogether, though that might be impossible.


Posted by: Samson151 | June 13, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

"Man I love reading these comments. I think we should all meet up at a bar or something an hour before the draft and go at it.

Posted by: DC-fan | June 13, 2009 6:24 PM

Good Idea.
We could do drafts on draft night.

Posted by: VBFan | June 13, 2009 8:03 PM "

Which gets to the point that it is absurd that every year the draft is held in NY and NY fans get to enjoy it every year.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 13, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

these pro-ginobli and pro-trade-the-pick comments are laughable. ginobli is not a perennial all-star, and has limited skills. he is a good complementary shooter, but he doesn't get assists, has a weak handle, does not rebound, and can't keep up with his man. he's got bad legs and he's 32 yrs old. what would he bring here --aside from his NAME-- that would improve this team??? he's known for his leadership skills. whose spot would he take? how many minutes do you project he can/will play?

Posted by: dcjazzman | June 14, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

I am an old perons and a dedicated Bullets fan. I have some ideas that I would like to share.

First, no NBA team that cannot play defense goes very far into the playoffs. The Bullets cannot play defense.

To get the Bullets closer to being a good defensive team, Jamison, with all of his upsides, must be dealt.

Second, despite his quickness, inventiveness and ability to get to the basket because of his strength, I have always seen Gilbert Arenas as a shooting guard.

With that in mind, the Bullets need a quick point guard who can break down defenses and get easy shots for the other four on the floor. Just that will improve all of the other players, especially if coupled with strong defensive play, which is where easy-basket offense begins.

If I ruled the Bullets, I would not lose Young, Blatch or Crittendon, and Young would work on his ball handling, Blatch on bulking up and Crittendon on 18-foot jump shots, endlessly.

Finally, I would also require Heyood to bulk up and charge him with the job of becoming a defensive force; otherwise, I would do whatever I could to get a monstor in the middle on defense.

Quick point guard, monster in the middle. Those are what will get the Bullets deep into the playoffs.

Now, really finally: let's all ban the word, "Wizards."

JT in Placitas

Posted by: jutepper1 | June 14, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Trade the #5 pick in the draft for a one year rental on Ray Allen? Are you out of your mind?

People come on here lamenting the last 30 years of the Wizards, then start suggesting that this Wiz team is built to win now.

THIS TEAM IS NOT ONE PLAYER AWAY! Trading for Ray Allen is no different then trading Webber for Mitch Richmond.

We're talking about a guy who's best years are about 5 years in the past. A guy who's had a history of ankle problems, and is now struggling to find his jumper on more nights then not.

Ray Allen in his prime would have been an excellent pairing with Gil, but Ray's legs aeren't what they once were. When deadeye shooters loose the consistancy on their jumper, it can useally be traced to Foot, Ankle, Knee, or Back problems.

I watched Ray Allen in the playoffs, he's not right, and he's struggling to adjust his jumper and he can't find it on a consitant basis. He gets a night that he's on, he can still be magic, but those nights are fewer and further between.

At the #5 pick there is going to be some good talent available. I'm not convinced, watching whom other teams are working out, that Thabeet couldn't possibly be still there at the 5. Or, a deal with Memphis or OK City isn't possible at a decent price.

Giving up a shot at Thabeet, Hill, or even moving back and taking Blair, would break two of the Cardinal Rules for NBA trades; never trade Big for small, and young for old.

This team is still in a building mode, all hands on deck and reasonably healthy, they could be a 45 win team. Picking Thabeet would only improve that by few games, if the Wiz don't give up too much other talent to get in position to do it.

Ernie's going to have to pull a magical deal involving expiring contracts at the deadline for this team to improve to being a contender with Orlando and the other teams at the top of the East.

A good draft, a good trade, and Flip's track record on the bench and this team will move up. But thinking about giving away a top pick, and expiring contracts, just to get a vet on the downside of his career, indicates to me someone's had too many drafts just thinking about the draft...
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | June 14, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

"Would trading Allen for Etan Thomas, Mike James, Darius Songaila and the No. 5 pick make sense for the Wizards and Celtics?"

NO. neither of the 3 locals could crack boston's bench. we probably can't afford Ray, anyway. he's a helluva player and meets our team's scoring and leadership needs, but ray IS 34 yrs old. know what i mean??? WE have a #5 draft choice: why would we waste it on a big name that most likely only has two years left in his tired jump-shoting legs? i think many of these trade scenarios are unsound. for me, just keep the pick and take a player with the skills we know we need.
1. a backup center or pf with good hands who can defend the middle, rebound and score when asked to. this type individual is hard to find, but brendan needs help on the back line and antwaan needs to move to the 3-spot.
2. a tough combo-guard who can take the ball out of gil's hands, run the team, penetrate and score from outside when open.
3. we also need a big man coach. where is wes unseld when we need him? if we can train or obtain these skills, i think the rest will fall into place.

Posted by: dcjazzman | June 14, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Man this is driving me bonkers. After his workout here and seeing his interview I got my mind set on Hardin. I've always loved watching guys with a sweet left handed stroke which he's really got. I like the things he says, his attitude and maturity, all around team oriented game. I think he'd be a great fit.

Then I go to draftexpress and see that he's now projected at #2?! Man I hope that's wrong! They now have the Bullets taking Curry, who I like don't get me wrong, but he's too small to play with Gil so I don't know how that helps us.

I do still like Evans as well. But I really hope Hardin is there at 5.


And I give up on looking at possible trade scenarios for the Bullets, cause that mess is really making me crazy. Still think good trade partners could include Knicks, Bucks, Bulls or Pistons.

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 14, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

jutepper: "Finally, I would also require Heyood to bulk up..."

I thought he was already one of the bigger guys in the League.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 14, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

"They now have the Bullets taking Curry, who I like don't get me wrong, but he's too small to play with Gil so I don't know how that helps us."

Wow, that is confusing. Hard to see what Curry would bring to a team trying to win now (like us). Wonderful outside shooting, I guess. But who's going to play perimeter defense? Certainly not Gilbert Arenas. That's why Harden or Evans might be a better choice.

They have Thabeet going to OKC, which makes sense except the Thunder would probably be a good place for Curry, alongside Russell Westbrook, who does the things Curry isn't good at, and needs to play with a super shooter.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 14, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Supposedly Knicks looking to work a sign and trade with David Lee.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/59642/20090607/knicks_hoping_to_sign_and_trade_lee/


A good scenario for the Bullets could be to get Lee with Larry Hughes for a package of Etan & Mike James (expiring contracts)with some assortment of young players (Blatche, Young, Pecherov) and our pick. The Knicks are also reportedly very high on Curry who they can take at 5.

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 14, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Now that you mention it, there are some strange combos in these mock drafts.

For instance, DraftExpress has Sacramento taking Ricky Rubio and Patrick Mills. All of a sudden they're in dire need of two PGs?

Likewise, they have the Wiz taking Stephon Curry and Marcus Thornton -- both combo guards. Guess that's it for Nick and Javaris, huh?

NBADraft.Net's not a whole lot better. Don Nelson taking Jonny Flynn over Stephon Curry? That's a stretch. You'd think he'd make D'Antoni trade up.

Jordan Hill goes 5th to Washington on Draft.net and 10th to Milwaukee on Express. Express also decides the Grizz need yet another PG so grab Darren Collison late in the 1st round.

One thing they agree on: Tyler Hansbrough goes to Utah at 20.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 14, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Can anyone explain how Courtney Lee can get minutes playing for a championship caliber team, while the Wizards who sucked couldn't get playing time for their young players?

If it was all ETaps...he wouldn't have a job right now, so the order had to come from above.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 14, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

It's beginning to look like a jumble in front of the Wizards. Memphis seems to be courting Rubio, but Rubio wants to go some where else, and he's got leverage.

My guess is Memphis in the end, trades the pick or picks somebody besides Rubio. Thabeet? That gives them two developmental centers, and still a gaping hole at the 4.

Trade for a 4 and move down? NY seems to be the logical partner there.

Harden seems to be the guy that both Memphis and OK City have been really impressed with. It sure seems like Harden could go at the two or the three. If NY moves up to get Rubio, or Memphis keeps the pick and takes Rubio 2nd, my quess is that Harden's the third pick.

Question is,if Harden jumps all the way to the two, Would the Kings and OK City swap picks? OK City seems to want to leave Westbrook at the point. Or do they stand pat and take Thabeet? If the do, they seem to have an accumulation of center projects and haven't filled a need at the 2. Harden would fill that need, if he's still on the board, I think he's OK City's guy. If he's gone they're hard to predict.

They seem to want a two that can shoot and spread the floor. Could Evans leadfrog up and be the guy? He's a questionable shooter at this point, but a lot of youngsters are. He's got a chance to be a superstar in this league, possibly the guy with biggest upside in the draft.

OK City seems to love to deal, if Rubio is there, do they get the Kings to move up, and still have the shot at Thabeet or Evans at #4 and add some other assets?

Or do they trade down to someone else looking to move up a head of Sacramento and get Rubio? NY again seems to be the logical trade partner, the Knicks seem reluctant to spend a lot of money to resign Lee. If Rubio goes here it could be for a sign and trade deal involving the Knicks after the draft.

Sacramento seems to be the team in the top five that really wants Rubio, and he'd not try to strong arm into a trade. Rubio drops to the 4, I'd say he's gone for sure.

So we seem to know is; Griffin is #1, Harden could go anywhere from 2 to 4 depending on possible trades, but I bet he doesn't slide past OK City, Rubio will go by the 4th pick if not before.

That fills 3 of the four spots, logic says Thabeet is the 4th guy since he's #2 on most draft boards.

But if Evans, Holliday, Hill, or another name gets called in the top 4, there's a very good chnace Thabeet drops to the 5th pick. If he does the Wiz would seem to be the team with a need for a defensive shotblocking center.

Every year, somebody shoots up the draft and somebody slides a little. My quess is somebody will ge picked un expectedly in the top 4 and Thabeet slides a little, or one of the teams in position to take him is willing to trade down a few spots. I'm just hoping Ernie is in position to grab him.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | June 14, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Bad news for the Wizzies.

Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:29 am EDT

Rumor: Shaq to Cavs talks back on again
The on again, off again trade talk that would send Shaquille O'Neal(notes) from the Phoenix Suns to the Cleveland Cavaliers is apparently on again, according to a report in the Arizona Republic.
According to the Republic, the parts of the possible deal remain the same. Phoenix would send O'Neal to Cleveland for veteran power forward Ben Wallace(notes), who is considering retirement, and reserve guard Sasha Pavlovic(notes), whose final contract year is not fully guaranteed.

Posted by: VBFan | June 14, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't mind taking Thabeet if there only because keeping Haywood next offseason will be tough. A big man in his prime who can defend the likes of DHoward will be highly wanted and he could get a big offer, especially with so many teams making room to have big offseasons in '10.


I do like the idea of working something with NY though to get David Lee and Hughes. If we can work expiring deals Etan & Mike James with Blatche, Young & Pecherov, swap the 5 for their #8.

With Hughes and Stevenson at SG, Blatche and Young departed, we can go for potential at 8 and take someone like Evans or Derozan. Plus we still have our 33rd pick.

We could have a center rotation of Haywood/McGee, a forward rotation of Lee/Jamison/Butler, and backcourt of Hughes/Arenas.

Bench would be solid with Songaila, McGuire, Derozan, Stevenson, Crittenton

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 14, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Alot of people may say you cant give up Blatche and Young...

Essentially your replacing Young and Blatche with Hughes and Lee. Plus you add more youth in draft and again replace Young with Derozan at 8 and Blatche at 33 with someone like DeJuan Summers or Arizona State's Jeff Pendergraph.


NY's perspective they swap Hughes for Etan/James , and move Lee for young talent on low contracts Nick Young, Blatche and Pecherov. Plus they move up and get the player they want in PG Curry.

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 14, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

" Timberwolves president David Kahn isn't ruling out Stephen Curry, even though he won't come in for a workout.

Minnesota has the sixth overall pick, and Curry has been trying to posture himself to end up in New York.

Kahn said earlier in the offseason that he wouldn't draft a player that he hadn't seen workout in person, but admitted on Saturday that he could bend the rules."

Via Pioneer Press

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 14, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

I mean it all makes sense.

Washington wants Hughes back (tried to acquire him twice last season), and NY wants to move him.

NY wants to work sign and trade for Lee, is looking for expiring contracts, young low priced talent/draft pick.

NY wants Curry in the draft.

Washington is looking for a vet SG and rebounder. Has the #5 pick where Curry is being projected.

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 14, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 14, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

The more I think about it the more I like it.

In fact I'd toss in the #33 to sweeten it for NY if needed...

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/59622/20090605/knicks_almost_certain_to_acquire_2nd_round_pick/

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 14, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Etan, James, Blatche, Young, Pecherov, #5, #33 to NY for Hughes, Lee, #8.


Center: Haywood, McGee

Forwards: Lee, Jamison, Butler, Songaila, McGuire

Guards: Hughes, Stevenson, Derozan, Crittenton, Arenas

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 14, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

David Lee?an excellent rebounder,active around the rim,Not known for his good defense or out side shoot, who is looking for him?If he comes to washington his contribution from the bench except his rebound is going to be minor.He is rebounding big since he leave alone his man and stay around the rim.If he is asked to follow his big man and his oponent is some body that can shoot from out side, he is not going to be a good rebounder.If Lee is the only obtion for washington at the draft night ,they better trade down for T william and kick off one of the expiring contract for the purpose of getting a cup space.hughes has two more years with 12.4 and 13.2 million why on earth washington would bring him to loss haywood at the end of the year.Washington was looking for him for AD's 6.5 million and Thomas's 7.4 million which was a wrong move on GM sdide, i do not think this will work.
Washington need to deal with
1/piston for rip hamilton and /or prince or a sign and trade deal on macdyes, it is fine to loss young and/or blache if they get a superstar level gard and/or an excellent defender(prince) with a center/power forward.
2/ For toronto's bash,washington need to add NY on jamison and the #5 pick (1.9+9.8)+ 3.1+6.4(james)=21.2, bosh salary 15.4+ the 9th pick(2.7) and the rest on cash or they can add a player that can keep washington an option not to sign him.
3/ Dallas, get stakhouse 13.4 million + their 1rs round pick for our #5 thomas and mike james.Washington will have the option get rid of stack house and will be 15 million less than or a net of 9 million below the previolus salary cup, they can sign a decent PF like walace or mcdayes or a defenssive players like ariza who can shoot the ball very well.

Posted by: gtefferra | June 14, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of trade rumors; Looks like the Caveliers want Shaq to bring a Ring to Cleveland for Lebron.

That is about the only way Lebron will get one next year. Can you imagine the hype of Shaq and Lebron against Kobe.

Who would the Lakers pick up? Would Phil stay for another year.

Damn, The NBA Is Fantastic? Go Wizards.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | June 14, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

article on Gilbert: yesterday's W.Times. Interview from the game in Orlando the other night, stating he's in good shape and all: http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/outlet/2009/jun/12/twenty-minutes-in-gilberts-shaddow/

Posted by: washwiz | June 14, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

BTW, for whatever it's worth the last paragraph from the above Washington Times link (from Mike Jones) is as follows:

"On other Wizards fronts, according to insiders, they have yet to make any trade offers to opposing teams, and are simply in the exploratory stages of checking their options as far as that No. 5 pick goes both as trade bait, or as a selection for themselves. I -- and everybody else monitoring the team -- think the Wizards still are likely to trade the pick. It's just a matter of when and for what."

Posted by: cannontl | June 14, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

While getting an aging vet in Allen for a one year push is questionable, the trade does other things as well:
1. It removes two longer contracts (DS and Songaila) as well as the Thomas/James expiring ones.
2. It fills void for a 2 guard, with Young backing him up and learning how to play the position from Allen.
3. It avoids drafting a questionable pick and committing time and money to another Blatche type project.
4. And maybe the best aspect, it'd free up $18M in cap room for 2010, the big free agent year. Sign Bosh or Stoudemire in '10 and everything changes. Can't even think of it w/o moving the longer term contracts.

It's all wishful thinking. It all depends on how the first 4 picks go. If Evans is gone, Boston balks. If Curry is gone, so does NY. Makes for a fun draft day.

Posted by: rocky123 | June 14, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

LMFAO!

Why would Boston get rid of Ray Allen when they won a ring with him, and this season, didn't go as far as they had planned b/c KG got hurt.

A more reasonable/realistic trade would be for Les BouleS to get rid of Gilby b/c even with Gilby, they couldn't get out of the 1st round of the playoffs without LH.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 14, 2009 6:28 PM | Report abuse

What about Etan, James, Young and the #5 for Michael Redd and their #10?

Milwaukee has been reportedly looking to move him. At 10 we could be looking at guys like Derozan, Dejuan Blair, Jordan Hill, Terrance Williams, Gerald Henderson, Tru Holiday, Ty Lawson.

We have a front 5 of Haywood, Jamison, Butler, Redd, Arenas.

A bench of McGee, Blatche, Songaila, Pecherov, McGuire, Stevenson, Crittenton, and whoever we draft.

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 14, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

A more reasonable/realistic trade would be for Les BouleS to get rid of Gilby b/c even with Gilby, they couldn't get out of the 1st round of the playoffs without LH.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 14, 2009 6:28 PM

How is disposing of the best player on the team, one of the best players in the history of the team, "realistic"? I think it would be more realistic if "DC_MAN88" became a Salt Lake City fan.

Posted by: satchmore | June 14, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

i said this before and ill say it again....bring in shaq for our expiring contracts and #5....

imagine shaq, jamison, butler, nick young and gilbert...how do you stop that lineup???

Posted by: insanity999 | June 14, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

"On other Wizards fronts, according to insiders, they have yet to make any trade offers to opposing teams, and are simply in the exploratory stages of checking their options as far as that No. 5 pick goes both as trade bait, or as a selection for themselves."

So Ernie's just waiting by the phone. As far as I know he's only looked at Harden, Evans, and Curry for the #5 pick, so he wants a two guard that can handle the ball.
Trade the pick and two of the bad contracts(James, Thomas, Songaila)to OKC for Kyle Weaver. OKC can eat those salaries and draft Thabeet and Harden(or Curry). The Wizards get insurance at SG, and most importantly to the organization not pay any luxury tax. And they can use the mid-level exception to get that vet.

Posted by: djnnnou | June 14, 2009 8:01 PM | Report abuse

How is disposing of the best player on the team, one of the best players in the history of the team, "realistic"?

Posted by: satchmore | June 14, 2009 7:24 PM

Gil isn't even close to being one of the best players in the history of the team. You don't know your team history do you?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 14, 2009 9:14 PM | Report abuse

The Wiz should keep the pick unless someone offers them at top 5 player at his position in a trade. Otherwise, what's the point? Does Ray allen win us anything next season? No. Ginobili? No. Lee? Lee won't even start for us.

Unless we bring in a better center, a better sg, and 1 or 2 better bench players, we're not improving much with our current core. We should be looking at packaging the 5th pick with either Butler or Jamison and change for an even more elite player. If not, then keep the pick. Take Harden if he's there. We'll have a battle and good rotation at the 2. If EG doesn't think McGee is the future at the 5, then take Thabeet, then decide during and after the season about Haywood.

I just think we need to really change the dynamic of the team, or not much is going to happen. Maybe package Haywood, the 5th pick, and either Butler or Jamison in an offer for Bosh and the 9th pick. That would give Toronto a good starting 5, and they'd have a better chance at ressigning Haywood after the season than Bosh. I still doubt they'd go for it. They're probably holding out for a large sign-and-trade deal next summer.

Posted by: segastyle | June 14, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse

"How is disposing of the best player on the team, one of the best players in the history of the team, "realistic"? I think it would be more realistic if "DC_MAN88" became a Salt Lake City fan.

Posted by: satchmore | June 14, 2009 7:24 PM "

When you take a step back and think about what you said, and that being "one of the best players in the history of the team," you're actually not saying that much.

He's "one of the best players" on a team with a 30+ year debacle of a history.

When your "best player" can't get you out of the 1st round of the playoffs since LH left, and when the team does just as well without your "best player," then maybe your "best player" is really not what you think he is.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 14, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

"imagine shaq, jamison, butler, nick young and gilbert...how do you stop that lineup???

Posted by: insanity999 | June 14, 2009 7:28 PM "

LMFAO.

The only reason Abe would bring Shaq into town would be to use him like he he used MJ, and then tossed him like a used rubber after he was done with him, and after the all time record tickets sold and financial windfall.

Why would Shaq come here? To play with Gilby? Shaq already noted, what was it 3 years ago, that he thought Gilby was a media clown and he only respected Caron.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 14, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

"... one of the best players in the history of the team..."

Is Arenas one of the best? Just to compare him with another candidate: Pearl Monroe. The Pearl was drafted by Baltimore in 1966 and sent to NY in '71. His career:

Games: 976
FG%: 47.6%
FT: 81%
PPG: 18.8
Rebounds per game: 3.0
Assists per game: 3.9

Arenas (over about half the number of games)
FG%: 43%
FT: 81%
PPG: 22.8
Rebounds: 4.2
Assists: 5.5

Those numbers are certainly comparable. They didn't keep TO stats back when Monroe played, but that's the only significant change. That 5 point difference in FG percentage is probably the advent of the 3 point shot, which lowered most guard's shooting percents.

Seems to me the main objection you hear on this blog is that Arenas has never won anything, but that's always a dicey argument when you're talking about the relative excellence of individual players -- NBA history is rife with superb talents who seldom got very far in the playoffs, usually because they ran into better teams.

The real question about Arenas is whether he'll ever again be the player he was before the injuries (or close to it). If he is, then the Wiz are in very good shape indeed. If not, then...

Posted by: Samson151 | June 15, 2009 12:14 AM | Report abuse

how about packaging the 5th pick for hamilton, bosh ect. and grabbing jermaine taylor, dionte christmas, or marcus thorton in the second round for a promising shooting guard

Posted by: soccersammy0808 | June 15, 2009 2:04 AM | Report abuse

package the 5th pick and grab a promising shooting guard like jermaine tayor in the second round

Posted by: soccersammy0808 | June 15, 2009 2:08 AM | Report abuse

LOL, check this trade out from espn trade machine

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

would the wiz take it. HAHAHAHAHA

Posted by: snitram323 | June 15, 2009 3:04 AM | Report abuse

Gilbert Arenas is the best guard who has played for Washington. You can argue 1 or 2 others, but, if you do, you would be siding with DC_Man and ..... you know what he is full of.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 15, 2009 7:56 AM | Report abuse


Manu is a champion and will address the needed guard position, but he's too old for this team. Bringing him to the team won't result in the same situation as KG to Boston it won't deliver us a ring. The Wizards need an inside presence to help them. I'm glad the Spurs didn't make the move, but the question is what was the Spurs expecting the Wizards would want for the 5th pick? Roger Mason???

Posted by: rcnasa | June 15, 2009 8:00 AM | Report abuse

I think players who have been on championship teams tend to be overrated by fans and the media. Ginobili's an example. He's an outstanding player and athlete but certainly not a game-changer if traded to a weaker team. Chris Bosh, on the other hand, might substantially improve a lesser club, as Gasol did LA.

Garnett's IMO a special case, like Tim Duncan in San Antonio. Their clubs don't go very far without them.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 15, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

"I think players who have been on championship teams tend to be overrated by fans and the media. Ginobili's an example. He's an outstanding player and athlete but certainly not a game-changer if traded to a weaker team."

It doesn't matter whether he's a game changer on a weaker team because he's not on a weaker team. He's unquestionably a game-changer for the Spurs. No one player wins games singlehandedly; team structure always plays a part. Bosh is a case in point. How much of a "game changer" has he been on a weak team? He's put up great numbers, but how many times has he gotten the Raptors out of the first round? Never. Why? Because he didn't have the pieces around him. There are very few players in who are so good that their addition alone can vault an average team into title contention. Neither Giniobili or Bosh is on that list.

Point is: would a healthy Ginobili instantly turn the Wiz into contenders? Probably not (but then, neither would Bosh). Would he improve the team and help their chances of winning (depending on what they gave up to get him)? Yes (again, assuming he's healthy).

Of course, it's all moot because he's not getting traded to the Wizards (if at all).

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 15, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Kal's points are on target on Ginobli. Have people forgotten that he's the 3rd best player on his own team after Duncan and Parker? There is a reason why the Spurs would entertain offers considering their team's play hardly dropped off with Roger Mason starting over Ginobli. Ginobli has been playing professionally since he was 20 and has more wear and tear than most 35-year old shooting guards.

At No. 5, a player like Curry or Harden would have more of an upside than Ginobli. Each will have trade value after the draft and the best move may be prior to the trade deadline when we know if this team is one or two missing pieces from being a legit threat in the East. If things fall in place and the team actually plays well, we'll have more leverage in unloading the contracts of Thomas/James/Songaila and one of the young players (Young/Blatche/McGee) to get us a veteran that will make a real difference. If Gilby is hurt/subpar, it will be time to unload some of the vets like Jamison, Butler and Haywood to rebuild.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 15, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

"Gilbert Arenas is the best guard who has played for Washington. You can argue 1 or 2 others, but, if you do, you would be siding with DC_Man and ..... you know what he is full of.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 15, 2009 7:56 AM "

Yes, I'm full of the truth, and what are you full of?

What has Gilby done to get Les BouleS closer to title contention since he's been here?

Yes, please STFU then...

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 15, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

"It doesn't matter whether he's a game changer on a weaker team because he's not on a weaker team. He's unquestionably a game-changer for the Spurs. No one player wins games singlehandedly; team structure always plays a part. Bosh is a case in point. How much of a "game changer" has he been on a weak team? He's put up great numbers, but how many times has he gotten the Raptors out of the first round? Never. Why? Because he didn't have the pieces around him. There are very few players in who are so good that their addition alone can vault an average team into title contention. Neither Giniobili or Bosh is on that list.

Point is: would a healthy Ginobili instantly turn the Wiz into contenders? Probably not (but then, neither would Bosh). Would he improve the team and help their chances of winning (depending on what they gave up to get him)? Yes (again, assuming he's healthy).

Of course, it's all moot because he's not getting traded to the Wizards (if at all).

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 15, 2009 10:26 AM "

LMAO...

which goes to prove that EG was a moron for paying max money for a guy who's not a game changer.....and neither is MeTawn who led Les BouleS straight to the lottery.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | June 15, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

An often injured player. Yea he would fit in perfectly in Washington.

Posted by: rockbroker | June 16, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

The Spurs should move Manu. He is 32 and will be a free agent in a year.

San Antonio needs to rebuild and is not going to challenge the Lakers in the West in 2010.

Getting the #5 pick and a vet in a deal for an often injured player who is likely past his prime is a good deal.

The question is why would the Wizards want to make the transaction?

Ginobili has playoff experience but he lacks size and is another offensive player.

The Wizards need rebounding and defense, not another guy who can score 18-20 points a game from the outside.

Posted by: leopard09 | June 16, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

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