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Wizards-T-Wolves Trade Breakdown

I just filed my story for the newspaper about an hour ago, so now I'll take some time to break down this deal. All I can say is that I guess Ernie Grunfeld really wasn't impressed with the pickings at No. 5 if he was willing to make a move like this so quickly. He didn't even wait to see which players slid down to them on Thursday, so that let's you know exactly what he thought about this draft. It stinks.

I'm not completely sold on getting Randy Foye and Mike Miller, but I'm willing to give Ernie the initial benefit of the doubt, because if there is one area where Grunfeld has succeeded in during his time in Washington it is making shrewd deals. He landed Antawn Jamison for the No. 5 pick in 2004 and got Caron Butler for Kwame Brown a year later.

This is Grunfeld's third major trade for the organization, and it yielded a former rookie of the year and sixth man of the year in Miller and a combo guard who came on strong in the second half of last season in Foye. Miller had a down year last season, but has been a capable long range shooter for most of his career. Something else to take into consideration is that with Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler both dealing with injuries the past few seasons, Foye and Miller can step in to provide relief/insurance, if necessary.

I would feel better about the deal if the Wizards had secured one of the Timberwolves' late first round picks, particulary No. 18. But I heard from a source that Minnesota wasn't going to give up that selection in this deal. The trade was agreed upon about two hours after Grunfeld held his pre-draft press conference on Tuesday. I'm sure you don't care what he had to say now, right?

The Wizards were essentially able to save close to $3 million from their expected payroll next season, now that they won't be obligated to pay the $2.7 million owed to the No. 5 pick. The Wizards didn't believe that any of the players available at the fifth spot would start for them next season anyway.

Also, the Wizards were able to eliminate two players who haven't contributed to the team the past two years in Etan Thomas and Oleksiy Pecherov, while Darius Songaila's contract erases more than $4 million from the payroll in 2011. That cannot be frowned upon, with Brendan Haywood up for an extension this summer and entering free agency in 2010. Next summer, Foye will be a restricted free agent and Miller an unrestricted free agent, which could free up more money to possibly sign Caron Butler to an extension beyond 2011.

The Wizards feel good about this deal and spent the past few weeks determining the value of the fifth pick. New York, Houston, Portland and Dallas were all interested in moving up to five on Thursday. But the Wizards decided that they should use it to dump some salaries and fill their need for perimeter shooting after finishing 29th in the league in three-point field goal percentage last season (33 percent).

I saw that ESPN is reporting that the holdup to the deal is that Thomas will have to agree that he won't opt out of his deal on July 1. Trust me, that is not a concern. Not only would he be walking away from more than $8 million but he would also pass on a possible starting job with the center-less T-wolves.

I still have to assume that something else is in the works for the Wizards because they now have a 13-man roster with six guards, possibly seven if you include Miller. They are especially thin up front, with Andray Blatche, JaVale McGee and Dominic McGuire the only "bigs" on the bench. The Wizards will have to find some size this summer and they still have the No. 32 pick and Mike James's expiring contract to work with.

The new players should have some familiarity with former Timberwolves coach Randy Wittman an assistant on Flip Saunders staff. With all of the former Minnesota guys on this team now -- Saunders, Wittman, Sam Cassell, Don Zierden, Foye and Miller -- you have wonder when Prince, Morris Day, Jerome, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis are coming to town for a post-game concert. I know I'm there.

By Michael Lee  |  June 23, 2009; 11:13 PM ET
 
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Next: Trade Update

Comments

"I still have to assume that something else in the works for the Wizards because they now have a 13-man roster with six guards, possibly seven if you include Miller."

Exactly. Chill people.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | June 23, 2009 11:23 PM | Report abuse

First of all, enough with the Etan bashing. Sure, the guy hasn't contributed to the team in two years and his contract was part of the reason we couldn't add help for the big 3.

But the fact of the matter is, Etan was a good teammate, a hard worker, and most importantly a good person. He was given a big, cap killing contract where he was grossly overvalued, but whose fault is that?

Though things weren't always rosy in DC, we'll miss you Etan and good luck in MN!

Posted by: J-Wiz | June 23, 2009 11:28 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards were essentially able to save close to $3 million from their expected salary cap next season, now that they won't be obligated to pay the No. 5 pick. The Wizards didn't believe that any of the players available at the fifth spot would start for them next season.

I sure am glad CHEAP ABE doesn't have to go over the cap.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 23, 2009 11:30 PM | Report abuse

"Though things weren't always rosy in DC, we'll miss you Etan and good luck in MN!"

I won't.

Dude was 6'10" and played like he was 4'2".

Good riddance you cap sucker!

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | June 23, 2009 11:32 PM | Report abuse

My guess is that Miller stays and that at least one and possibly two of Foye, Young, Stevenson, James, Crittenton is/are gone.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 23, 2009 11:32 PM | Report abuse

"The Wizards didn't believe that any of the players available at the fifth spot would start for them next season. "

Nobody with any sense believed that.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 23, 2009 11:33 PM | Report abuse

I know this is all about salary dump but for the #5 pick couldn't we at least get ONE bona-fide star? I mean these are two average players. What's the BFD?

And if someone--ANYONE--wants Jamison for anything, for goodness sake get rid of em. When will Ernie Gs love infatuation with Jamison wear off. The guy is a liability. If you can pawn him off on someone do it!

Posted by: dovelevine | June 23, 2009 11:33 PM | Report abuse

CHEAP ABE tell us the truth do you want to save money or win a championship?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 23, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

And BTW the trade that Ernie G made to get Jamison was not a good trade. They gave up a ton for what the Mavs had right, a 6th man. I'd take Devin Harris today or any day of the week.

Posted by: dovelevine | June 23, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

Grunfeld has basically sat around wasting the past 3 years on this pipedream of his that when all the planets converge and all his players are healthy, which is NEVER, then his team will be a winning team. HEY ERNIE--PIPE DREAM.

Posted by: dovelevine | June 23, 2009 11:37 PM | Report abuse

CHEAP ABE is not going to let Ernie trade AJ, Gil and/or CB since the fans will pack the house to see them make the first round this year and that puts money in the old mans pocket.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 23, 2009 11:37 PM | Report abuse

People can blame the players or the GM's for not winning a championship in 30 years but the one thing that has stayed the same is ABE IS CHEAP!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 23, 2009 11:39 PM | Report abuse

Maybe the city of DC will give CHEAP ABE some more land so he can build something and make 10 times the amount of money for nothing!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 23, 2009 11:40 PM | Report abuse

Why do all our teams stink? Why are we stuck with the Lerners and Kastens and Grunfelds. I mean they don't just stink, they stink historically. And we are supposed to give these guys the benefit of the doubt? Every team has injuries but they don't end up being historically bad. This team isn't even close to contending beccause of Ernie G and all they did was dump some salary and get another bunch of average stiffs? The Merry-go-round keeps on spinning.

Posted by: dovelevine | June 23, 2009 11:40 PM | Report abuse

Brendan Todd Haywood is happy as a clam.Should of sent Stevenson instead of Songaila.

Posted by: jeremydvid | June 23, 2009 11:41 PM | Report abuse

Come on Irene bring it on and try to explain how this deal does not look like CHEAP ABE is up to his old tricks.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 23, 2009 11:42 PM | Report abuse

I would drink the kool aid but ABE is too CHEAP to make enough for all of us. He only made enough for Ernie, Flip and Kal.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 23, 2009 11:46 PM | Report abuse

GREAT TRADE! Etan was useless, had no low post moves and rebound numbers anemic. Love Darius, but again, poor rebounder and played beneath the rim at 6'9". Petch was a waste. Miller and Foye - one of them could actually be a starter b/c DeShaun is about all done.
For all the Jamison haters...are you kidding? The guy averages 20/10 night in and out, shoots the 3, great leader. Yeah, his defense stinks but let's ask this question...does he give up more than he gives? Is he a net negative each night like Thomas or Stevenson is?
Even if Gil is only 80% of what he was, just having him on the court with Brendan and getting Foye and Miller makes this a playoff team that btw WILL beat Cleveland which is just a one-man team...none of the other guys on Cleveland could even start here. Healthy Wizards = conference finals. Book it now.

Posted by: jaboch | June 23, 2009 11:48 PM | Report abuse

My source told me Minn wanted to throw in the 18th pick and CHEAP ABE said no because signing a draft pick would have put them over the luxury cap next year.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 23, 2009 11:49 PM | Report abuse

"And BTW the trade that Ernie G made to get Jamison was not a good trade. They gave up a ton for what the Mavs had right, a 6th man. I'd take Devin Harris today or any day of the week."

I disagree, that was a very good trade - different goals then. 1 playoff appearence in almost 20 reasons at the time, (right?).

I think your reference to "today" in that statement is accurate, but at that time, good trade.

And maybe AJ will get dealt soon anyway, although he has impressed me more than I thought he would with his play (takes too many 3s though).

Posted by: MikeNelmsReturns | June 23, 2009 11:50 PM | Report abuse

And, by "your source" you of course mean the air escaping from your sphincter.

BTW, don't fret the kool-aid. I've got something you can drink.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 23, 2009 11:51 PM | Report abuse

jaboch

How much do you want to bet...I have people in Vegas that will put the money in escrow because there is no way this team makes the conference finals.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 23, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

i hope thy can also trade for a big man

Posted by: jabari2 | June 23, 2009 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Kal,

You have to give me my props since I called this move last year when everyone was getting on me for calling ABE CHEAP.

I said then I wouldn't call him CHEAP for the rest of the season, but, if he went CHEAP on draft day all bets were off.

I WAS RIGHT.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 23, 2009 11:57 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, because you were the only person in the free world who thought the Wiz would trade the pick. Not a single other person ever predicted that as a possibility.

Moron.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:01 AM | Report abuse

They get nothing for nothimg,so we are still nothing

Posted by: mrpjs1976 | June 24, 2009 12:03 AM | Report abuse

"My guess is that Miller stays and that at least one and possibly two of Foye, Young, Stevenson, James, Crittenton is/are gone." - kalo_rama

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't re-trade a player you just traded for. You have to wait a certain number of months.

Posted by: segastyle | June 24, 2009 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Ah, found it:

"For two months after receiving the player in trade or claiming him off waivers, if the player is being traded in combination with other players. However, the team is free to trade the player by himself (not packaged with other players) immediately. This restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap."

So we could only re-trade Miller or Foye by himself, not in a combination deal.

Posted by: segastyle | June 24, 2009 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Everyone is commenting about Miller's down year shooting from outside. His down year was 38% from 3pt. Better than any of the Wizards. Foye, btw, shot 36% and has a career average of 37.4%. So they both are as good or better than any of our outside shooters.

Posted by: segastyle | June 24, 2009 12:09 AM | Report abuse

"Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't re-trade a player you just traded for. You have to wait a certain number of months."

I didn't say they were going to trade Foye tomorrow. And, for the record, a team can immediately trade away a player they've just traded for, as long as they trade him alone and don't include him as part of a package deal with other players they're trading. Otherwise, they have to wait 60 days after the initial trade to trade him again as part of a package.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:11 AM | Report abuse

"So we could only re-trade Miller or Foye by himself, not in a combination deal."

Or they could wait 60 days to trade them in a package, well before the season started with plenty of time to integrate the new guys. As far as I know, there's no reason why Grunfeld has to finish making all deals before the end of the month. Season doesn't start until the end of October.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:14 AM | Report abuse

Noooooooooooooooooooo.

I would have rather had the pick: Curry is going to be a beast.

I would have rather done the Hughes, Chandler deal with the Knicks.

Instead Wizards shed some bad contracts. If Foye is equal to Curry, than its okay.

Posted by: wizfanatic | June 24, 2009 12:16 AM | Report abuse

He had to make the move! This is classic Polin. Using the draft, interferes with keeping the team old, slow, and injury riddled. Young talent interferes with the dream of barely making the playoffs and never having a chance to compete for an NBA title. And don't forget, if the old vets get hurt enough, there will be another lottery pick we can trade away next year to an organization that knows how to build and win a title.

Posted by: RCFillmore | June 24, 2009 12:16 AM | Report abuse

True, but if he's planning on using that 2nd round pick, it'd have to be in the next few days.

My guess is that he has another trade in the works already (which would imply without Miller or Foye), or he wouldn't have so many guards on the roster. He's not the type to just hope he can exchange a few of them for something else in the future.

Posted by: segastyle | June 24, 2009 12:19 AM | Report abuse

"And don't forget, if the old vets get hurt enough, there will be another lottery pick we can trade away next year to an organization that knows how to build and win a title."

Yeah, like the Minnesota Timberwolves. Stalwart champions they are.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:19 AM | Report abuse

"True, but if he's planning on using that 2nd round pick, it'd have to be in the next few days."

No it wouldn't. The one has nothing to do with the other.

Second round picks aren't guaranteed contracts. There's nothing stopping the team from using the 2nd round pick, playing the 2nd rounder in summer league, camp, and preseason. They wouldn't have to make a concrete decision on whether to offer him a full-season contract until just before the season starts, well after the point when they'd be able to trade Foye or Miller.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:22 AM | Report abuse

Grunfield must Go!
If you pay to see this team this year you must be hard up for basketball.
Sell, Sell the team please!!!!!!
You got to be in it to win it.
This team is a joke!
Grunfield picks have been just a bit higher than what we saw from Unsel.
A JOKE!
So go to the MCI oh i'm sorry Verizon place buy your hotdog and beer.

I guess i'm pulling for Boston again this year. LOL

Posted by: shamken | June 24, 2009 12:26 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, because you were the only person in the free world who thought the Wiz would trade the pick. Not a single other person ever predicted that as a possibility.

Moron.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:01 AM

No, I was the one who said they would trade the pick in order to keep them under the luxury cap. How can you even try to defend CHEAP ABE on this move?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 12:26 AM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78: Where's YOUR money, big shot?

Posted by: IrenePollin | June 24, 2009 12:27 AM | Report abuse

Good solid trade, solid vets for ---- well, anyway Ernie's not done, this is just the prelim, but c'mon Jimmy Jam, Prince that is about the lamest reference I could expect, you do get paid for this right? What's next Jack Morris, Kirby(meet me in the men's room) Puckett, Senator WHO! Stewart Smally, I'll go you one worse and use a lame a** WWF reference DAMN!

Posted by: mfowler1 | June 24, 2009 12:31 AM | Report abuse


ERNIE..

YOU ARE THE WORSE GM EVER!

MILLER IS WASHED UP AND FOYE IS NO BETTER THAN TYREKE EVANS OR STEPHEN CURRY...

YOU BLEW IT AGAIN!...

I GUESS IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY WASN'T IT, WITH THOMAS' AND SONGAILA'S CONTRACT...

YOU SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST KEPT PECHEROV, WHO CAN SHOOT 3'S, OR SWAPED PICKS FROM YOUR 5TH TO THEIR 6TH OR 18TH! TYREKE EVANS IS UNSTOPPABLE WHEN GOING TO THE BASKET, MUCH LIKE D. WADE OR LEBRON JAMES....

YOU STINK...

THAT IS WHAT WE NEEDED AT CRUNCH TIME IN CASE GILBERT COULDN'T DO IT....

SOMEONE TO GO TO THE HOLE AND PICK UP 2 FREE THROWS WHEN IT COUNTED...

WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?...

AFTER ALL THE TALKS THIS IS THE BEST THAT YOU COULD COME UP WITH?

AND YOU ARE GETTING PAID FOR THIS?

Posted by: docdwb | June 24, 2009 12:34 AM | Report abuse

ERNIE..

YOU ARE THE WORSE GM EVER!

MILLER IS WASHED UP AND FOYE IS NO BETTER THAN TYREKE EVANS OR STEPHEN CURRY...

YOU BLEW IT AGAIN!...

I GUESS IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY WASN'T IT, WITH THOMAS' AND SONGAILA'S CONTRACT...

YOU SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST KEPT PECHEROV, WHO CAN SHOOT 3'S, OR SWAPED PICKS FROM YOUR 5TH TO THEIR 6TH OR 18TH! TYREKE EVANS IS UNSTOPPABLE WHEN GOING TO THE BASKET, MUCH LIKE D. WADE OR LEBRON JAMES....

YOU STINK...

THAT IS WHAT WE NEEDED AT CRUNCH TIME IN CASE GILBERT COULDN'T DO IT....

SOMEONE TO GO TO THE HOLE AND PICK UP 2 FREE THROWS WHEN IT COUNTED...

WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?...

AFTER ALL THE TALKS THIS IS THE BEST THAT YOU COULD COME UP WITH?

AND YOU ARE GETTING PAID FOR THIS?

Posted by: docdwb | June 24, 2009 12:36 AM | Report abuse

I knew dingbats would call the team cheap after this move. But this is what it took to get rid of Etan's contract. Good look to him if he plays in MN.

This draft is terrible. There will be one legit All-Star from the top ten picks. Anyone want to guess who that will be? Me neither. Deal the pick. We have enough young, unproven bench players.

Course when Brandon Jennings is an All-Star in 2013, people will say 'I told you so'. But this move is about having a better line-up for 2009-2010. That's what I want.

Posted by: Kev29 | June 24, 2009 12:43 AM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78: I see now that you addressed me. So here's my answer: of course economics are a factor. Dimwits like you think that Abe Pollin has all the money in the world, and that if it were your money you'd just do whatever with it and never think twice about paying Etan Thomas 7.5 million a year to read books to schoolchildren. Personally, I think this is a really smart trade that fills a couple needs. Neither player is a superstar, but no way they were getting a superstar without giving up better players than they gave up.

Anyway, this doesn't save the team all that much money. (About $5 million, which I know to a big shot like yourself is pocket change, though of course it will cost them considerably more if they extend Miller and/or Foye, since they certainly wouldn't have extended Etan, which right there kind of ruins yuor argument. THat will cost them probably three times what the #5 pick would make next year. Basically, your point it hollow of anything but your insane hatred of Abe Pollin, a man whose ass you would kiss for hours if you ever got the chance.

Anyway, yeah, of course this a business decision. There are things called budgets in this world. Every team except a few super-rich ones have to follow them very closely. I can't deny that this organization was pretty no-frills for a long time, but things have definitely improved since they moved to Chinatown. Either way, one thing you can't say is that Pollin is unwilling to pay players. Of all the terrible moves this organization has made over the years, I can't think of a single one that was out of cheapness. If anything, his weakness has been signing the players he likes to overly generous extensions.

I don't know, man. Maybe I'm too sensitive to bigotry, but I can't help but feel like every time you scream CHEAP ABE you're really screaming CHEAP JEW. I hope I'm wrong there, but either way you come off like an obsessive a-hole.

Posted by: IrenePollin | June 24, 2009 12:43 AM | Report abuse

I cant believe all of the Cheap Abe comments. This guy has been OVER paying for crappy performances for decades. We complain he doesnt sign players then boo them out of town. Juwan Howard was the first 100 mil guy! we just gave Gil about 5 mil a year too much. Lets just get rid of him too. This team was a conference final caliber team when healthy just 1.5 yrs ago. Wake up fairweather fans.

Posted by: squammy | June 24, 2009 12:45 AM | Report abuse

I sure Ernie has more trades in the works or this coming year will be another disaster. The trade today has done nothing to improve the Wizards for next season. I think they should have kept the 5th pick and took their chances.

Posted by: mdondon300 | June 24, 2009 12:45 AM | Report abuse

"I guess i'm pulling for Boston again this year. LOL

Posted by: shamken | June 24, 2009 12:26 AM"

I bet you're pulling for Boston.

Posted by: IrenePollin | June 24, 2009 12:46 AM | Report abuse

The Wizards are just as dumb as the Redskins with their draft picks. Ernie did not feel that the 5th pick could start for us so he dealt the pick. Ideally a draft pick should not have to come in and start. The last time Ernie felt this way he traded Devin Harris for Jamison to save cap room now Devin is a one of the top PGs in the league. We ran off Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace and Rip Hamilton funny but not really funny that all 3 have won titles since leaving here. We need to develop our draft picks and play them now watch this 5th pck end up being a future star and watch Nick Young also become a star elsewhere. The Skins and Wizards need new ownership and new direction in the personnel office for God's sake how long much we wait for this crap to get better

Posted by: anacostia85 | June 24, 2009 12:56 AM | Report abuse

squammy the only reason he had to pay Juwan 100 million was that he lowballed him on his rookie contract. He was supposed to leave for Miami but the commish had pity on him and gave him a mulligan

Posted by: anacostia85 | June 24, 2009 12:58 AM | Report abuse

Easy gents.
Let's keep in mind that neither this trade, nor anyone they could have drafted this year, is going to determine whether the Wiz will contend anytime soon.

Like it or not...agree with it or not, the Wiz seem to believe that Jamison, Butler & Arenas can win a title if they're all healthy at the same time and have the right supporting cast.

The keys here being "healthy" and "supporting cast."

They're not looking to add stars, they already have their three.

Posted by: Skins-man | June 24, 2009 1:04 AM | Report abuse

kal, you misunderstood me. I meant if Grunfeld was planning on using that 2nd round pick in a trade along with a group of players. In that case, he'd want to use it in the next few days, in which both Miller and Foye would not be available in a player package deal.

Posted by: segastyle | June 24, 2009 1:05 AM | Report abuse

The trade is not a bad deal. Draft experts (and anyone who watched college basketball this season) seem to agree that there are 1 or possibly 2 sure-fire rookies in this draft, and the rest of the top 10 is iffy at best. Beyond that, almost everyone to go after Griffin and Thabeet is a guard. Arenas is allegedly healthy and all of you know you can't bank on the #5 pick in this draft starting this year for this team. So, we trade away a large useless salary (Thomas), a non factor taking up bench space (Pech), and Songaila. Yeah, Songaila was decent at times in short minutes last year and i like that he scraps, but he'll never be a 25-30 min. player. We give up 2 players who didn't contribute at all last year, 1 who did a little, and one unknown player who will demand a high salary (#5,) for two proven players 1 of which still has a very high ceiling. Plus we offload salary? At worst it seems like an even deal to me, and Grunfeld has shown the ability to get value. As for the Jamison haters, he's the reason we got more than 20 wins last year instead of 10. He was the one person on the team dropping 20 and 10 a game, and beyond that he's the best role model and consummate pro we have in that locker room. Those young guys should watch him and learn how to figure out pro basketball. You think Jamison is the only one who does the scoop shot because he's the most athletic guy in the league? He studied the game and worked hard and found a weakness and exploits it. He's not the best player in the country, but he could probably show someone else how to be.

Posted by: FanMan1 | June 24, 2009 1:08 AM | Report abuse

sorry 19 wins, i had a few beers

Posted by: FanMan1 | June 24, 2009 1:09 AM | Report abuse

"kal, you misunderstood me. I meant if Grunfeld was planning on using that 2nd round pick in a trade along with a group of players. In that case, he'd want to use it in the next few days, in which both Miller and Foye would not be available in a player package deal."

The second round pick has little to no player value and no monetary value, so there's no reason whatsoever to think that the ability to include it would be a make or break element in any deal, regardless of which players are involved. And even if that's not the case, there's nothing stopping Grunfeld from working out the details of a trade that would include Foye or Miller and the pick now, using the pcik on whatever player the other team is interested in, and actually executing the deal when the trade embargo on Foye and Miller is up in 60 days.

So, again, their trade status has no real bearing on the disposition of the pick.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 1:11 AM | Report abuse

Or, Grunfeld could just trade the pick now to the other team for a nominal cash amount and wait 60 days to execute the trade of players (including Miller or Foye).

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 1:13 AM | Report abuse

Squammy, i'm with you on this one. I'm so sick and tired of reading the constant negativity, we need to look at this objectively. This is not a great draft, the number 5 pick would not start for us immediately..while we get two good players who will be better for getting out of Minnesota. We get rid of some cumbersome contracts, while adding perimeter shooting and putting the pieces in place for another possible trade for a big. Let's look at this around Jan 2010, then we'll be able to judge this trade. Until then, let's give EG a chance and see where it takes us.

However, if we're 20 games under .500 by February, I'll lead the "Fire EG" chorus!!

Posted by: briandownunder | June 24, 2009 1:34 AM | Report abuse

June is waaaaayy too early to determine where this trade puts the Zards, but I know that last year Pech and DSong were healthy and available to play. Etan was coming off freakin open heart surgery, just in time to blow out his knee.
The team finished 19-63.
The lottery determined The Zards would pick #5,this blog has been full of posts about trading the pick and bad contracts for veteran help.
Mission accomplished.
I think it's obvious that the training camp roster is far from being set.
The pick up of Mike Miller fills a definite need for the Zards. Bench scoring/deadly 3 pt shooter.
Randy Foye, I suspect Randy Wittman, ex-TWolves coach, gave EG an earful on how he'd fit along side or backing up Gil..
Now the focus should be on front court help. (I really like to see what it would take to sign McDyess)

Posted by: bozomoeman | June 24, 2009 1:35 AM | Report abuse

I would have rather done the Hughes, Chandler deal with the Knicks.

I thought I read tonight (Newsday?) where the Knicks would not give up Chandler.

The Knicks are not fans of this deal though, because now they can't jump in front of Minnesota ... they have to sit tight at 8, perhaps.

Posted by: KeithMcMillan | June 24, 2009 1:40 AM | Report abuse

Watching the Wizards is like living in the Twilight Zone. With this latest move, what they are saying is that they are content with keeping a core of players that have only ever won 43 games, never won a playoff series, and are aging. It's as if all other teams are shooting for an NBA Championship while the Wizards are shooting for a .500 season.

Posted by: ArlingtonHokie | June 24, 2009 2:00 AM | Report abuse


Thank You Ernie Grunfeld for getting the racist Etan Thomas out of DC!!!!!!!!!

Etan Thomas on black Republicans:

"Then you recruit black faces to join you in your
absurd notions
Benedict Arnolds with necks tired from pecking at the
souls of their own people
From that sell out Negro named J. C. Watts
Swimming in conservative pots
Brought to a bubbling boil for his black skin
He doesn't even know that he's standing in
Tap dancing in
Prancing around with a sword of white teeth
cutting the chords attached to our advancement"

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 2:00 AM | Report abuse

This is so disapointing.

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 24, 2009 2:07 AM | Report abuse

I don't know, man. Maybe I'm too sensitive to bigotry, but I can't help but feel like every time you scream CHEAP ABE you're really screaming CHEAP JEW. I hope I'm wrong there, but either way you come off like an obsessive a-hole.

Posted by: IrenePollin | June 24, 2009 12:43 AM

Right On!

Posted by: djnnnou | June 24, 2009 2:25 AM | Report abuse

After all the names that have been thrown around (e.g. Amare, T-Mac, Shaq), this trade is a bit anti-climactic. But it probably helps the Wizards next season, and given the crapshoot nature of the draft, I'm comfortable with them going with a relatively safe bet. Now the Wiz can either trade for a big man (and clear out their overcrowded backcourt), or sit tight, draft a big guy for depth at #32, and hope Gilbert's knee holds up!

Unfortunately, draft night *did* just got a whole lot less fun . . .

Posted by: bucky_katt | June 24, 2009 3:17 AM | Report abuse

people need to remember that if we were ever going to get bigger players like amare, t-mac, shaq, vc, ginobili etc.. we would need to give up bigger players like CB or AJ and our 5th pick. youve got to be kidding me if you think that if we traded ET, Dsong, Pech and the 5th pick we would have landed a player at the same calibre of amare. for what we gave up, we got some pretty good talent in return.

Posted by: bullets8890 | June 24, 2009 3:43 AM | Report abuse

Go Wiz!

Nobody is ever satisfied in here. People scream about Etan's contract and when we dump it in a decent deal then Abe is cheap and blah blah blah

I think this deal is pretty good. Not a steal of a trade like the AJ and Caron deals, but a good deal. And, don't give me the Devon Harris crap. We also dumped two team killers with bad contracts in Stackhouse and Laettner in that deal. Yeah, Harris is starting to be a player now, but Jamison has been the steady hand in the 4 straight playoff appearances. Plus, I think we have a PG and a better player in GA when healthy.

I'm sure EG is going to balance the roster as well. We have to get a strong front court player. Strong as in having some mass. McDyess has been brought up in these threads and he would be perfect. Not sure what his status is however. I guess we could get such a player in the second round, but that is a huge risk.

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 24, 2009 4:09 AM | Report abuse

This is exactly the awful, no guts, zero vision, trash-dumping deal I've been fearing. We are dumping our sub-mediocre players, all of whom Grunfeld brought here - or in the case of Thomas, signed to an absurd long-term deal - to get a spent three-point specialist and a mediocre guard.

Firstly, Grunfeld, you have admitted to whiffing on Pech, Thomas and Songalia. You have judged your own performance, and found it lacking. Now have the guts to admit it publicly when you try to sell this bunk trade to the fans. Maybe you will think a little next time before you sign players like Thomas to lucrative long-term deals, or draft power forwards from the Ukraine with the body of Mr. Burns from The Simpsons? Now you've stuck yourself with having to right your wrongs, and deprived us long-suffering fans the excitement of a high lottery pick. Watching your team last year was unbearable, the most boring Wizards/Bullets team I have seen since I started watching the team in 1979. Thanks for adding nothing to the miserable experience of watching a Wiz game.

Secondly, how does this make the team better? We now have two new mediocre perimeter players (and in the case of Foye, undersized at the two) on a team loaded with them. Unbelievably, we have just gotten... smaller. Neither player we get in the trade has star potential. This will be one of those drafts where we regret passing on Evans or Curry or another potential future star for friggin' Mike Miller. To win championships you need size, athleticism and star talent, none of which this trade brings us. Grunfeld STRIVES for mediocrity.

Please fire Grunfeld, someone, whoever is in charge of the Wizards these days. I suspect that with Abe sick, no one is, which is why Grunfeld has been able to destroy this team without any accountability. PLEASE! DUMP GRUNFELD! SOMEBODY!

Posted by: SammyT1 | June 24, 2009 4:39 AM | Report abuse

I give the trade a B-. I like Foye's free throw % (84.5).
We will need to add a Power Forward in the 2nd round (the Cavs may draft Taj Gibson with the #30). If Taj isn't there at #32 then I would be ok with taking Jeff Adrien.
The Wiz will win 45-48 games in 2010 and make the Conference Semifinals.

Posted by: jeremybozz | June 24, 2009 6:01 AM | Report abuse

I cant wait for the John Thompson show today. When the Coach and Scott Lynn were discussing trade rumors yesterday during the coaches radio show and Mike Miller's name came up, the Coach said "WHO?"

Posted by: Allan2 | June 24, 2009 6:13 AM | Report abuse

It's obvious Ernie thinks we only have a few years left to make a run. Granted, maybe none of the players at #5 would have started this year, but is a year or two too long to wait. Short-term thinking turns us into the Redskins - except for the fact Snyder would pay to go over the cap...

Posted by: BT23 | June 24, 2009 7:00 AM | Report abuse

I like it. We've got to reasonably young players with decent size in the mid-range and proven ability. It sort of says that EG has some optimism for the young bigs that we have, JaVale McGee, and Andray Butler and expects that they will step up.

I think that Juan Dixon, Mike James and DeSean Stevenson may be the odd men out and that there will be another big man coming to town soon. Let's see what Ernie has in his bag. We lost three players that I was not impressed with and were not extremely effective these last few years.

This is nothing to get excited about, but I think it makes the club better.

Now, ERNIE, This was functional, now—GIVE US SOMETHING TO BE EXCITED ABOUT!!

Posted by: zbopjazz | June 24, 2009 7:03 AM | Report abuse

I don't know, man. Maybe I'm too sensitive to bigotry, but I can't help but feel like every time you scream CHEAP ABE you're really screaming CHEAP JEW. I hope I'm wrong there, but either way you come off like an obsessive a-hole.

Posted by: IrenePollin | June 24, 2009 12:43 AM

I told you before Irene; it has nothing to do with him being Jewish. Last year when everyone got upset and told me what a great guy he is with all of his charity work, I promised not to call him cheap unless he went into the his cost cutting mode at draft time.

bulletsfan78: Where's YOUR money, big shot?

Posted by: IrenePollin | June 24, 2009 12:27 AM

I can tell you where it's not in CHEAP ABE's pocket. Why should anyone want to buy a ticket if the owner tells you he cares more about saving money then he does about winning a championship?

Dimwits like you think that Abe Pollin has all the money in the world...Anyway, yeah, of course this a business decision. There are things called budgets in this world. Every team except a few super-rich ones have to follow them very closely.

That's my point, since CHEAP ABE cannot compete with the rich owners why doesn't he do us (fans who have given him our hard earned money during the last 30 years) all a favor and sell the team to Steve Bisciotti! A PROVEN WINNER!

People it’s not personal, when most championship teams get close to win a championship they do whatever it takes to get the ring. While, other teams are content just to make the playoffs as long as they don’t go over the luxury cap.

Kal, your not fooling me I know this is you.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 7:04 AM | Report abuse

I've got to say that I never saw this one coming. I never thought that Minn. was going to give up Foye in any deal. He was one of the few solid guys on their roster right now.

The guy's not a household name, not many guys outside of Garnett get to be playing in Minn, but he's a very solid guard who now projects as the starting two guard for the Wizards.

Last season, 16.3 pts. 4.3 assists 36% from the three point line. career 37% 3 pt. shooter. Miller's a career 40% three baller, so the trade improves the Wiz's depth and perimeter shooting off the bat.

I'd agree Curry, Evans, and others COULD have a higher ceiling then Foye. But what the Wiz got THIS year is a solid young vet who is not a household name, but his career is on an upswing. Kind of like the Butler and Jamison trades.

Ernie has a track record, he does his homework on these guys. The new influx of former Minn. guys is kind of like when the Wiz brought in Hughes, then Jamison, and Arenas after they had all had a stint together in Golden State.

In basketball you always have to work at finding a group that has some chemistry together. I'd agree Wittman had impact on this one.

The front court sure seems to need a vet now, and James and Stephenson sure look like extra baggage, I'd say one is gone for sure in some kind of deal.

Miller could give the Wiz that deadly 3 baller that every team in the league has to have now. He solidifies the bench right away, and will be good for 10-15 pts. per game. The guy can really be a deadeye shooter and can play stints at either 2 guard or small forward.

But, Foye is the key to this deal, he could be another young vet that Ernie picks up on the upswing of his career. Playing on a team with all of the scoring options the Wiz have will give the guy a chance to shine. I think he's a solid guy to add to the mix, kind of like a younger version of Daniels, a guy that doesn't need to dominate the ball to have an impact.

There's not going to be a lot of teams out there willing to spend cap dollars on FA's this summer. If Ernie shops right his MLE could have some serious buying power on the market this summer.

I'd look for Flip to be advocating for a vet off of another roster he's familar with to shore up the frontline.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | June 24, 2009 7:04 AM | Report abuse

I thought defence was the glaring deficieny that needed fixing? Unless there's another deal in the works then I guess Saunders' coaching is the proposed solution here? I'd be reluctant to trust this to any new coach, let alone to a middle-aged man who still calls himself "Flip." I hope I'm selling his genius short.

At least this team looks like being high scoring and hence fun to watch. Anything bests last year...

Also, docdwb, let me introduce you to a new key on your keyboard called CAPS LOCK.

Posted by: ArchieTambo | June 24, 2009 7:08 AM | Report abuse

i guess it's not a bad deal. as George Allen said, "the future is now". too bad both of the new guys only have one more year on their contracts. it would be better if the "future" was more than one year.

Posted by: stevie2 | June 24, 2009 7:09 AM | Report abuse

Foye looks injury prone. Just what we need.
Check it out http://www.nba.com/playerfile/randy_foye/index.html

Posted by: ptp23 | June 24, 2009 7:17 AM | Report abuse

Ernie the magician strikes again! I was pumped to giddiness when i heard this last night!

Now move #2: We move into the 5-10 range by dangling talented guards with potential like Young, Crittendon and, maybe if there is a sucker out there, D Stevenson. We get J Blair for energy and rebounds and defense off the bench. Barring a health disaster that is all that we need. And we, my friends, would be set to make a deep run next spring! Who in the 6 thru 10 lottery range is set at the 4 and would not need Blair? Wolves at 5 and 6, Warriors at 7, Knicks at 8. So keep an eye on them.

BmoreRev

Posted by: stanlong23 | June 24, 2009 7:18 AM | Report abuse

Foye can score from the perimeter and in the paint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jHW6610gyM

Miller might be one of those vets that the Wizards have a habit of acquiring just after their skills decline, like Mitch Richmond. Or not, we'll see.

Presumably with the second round pick, the Wizards will take the best available PF.

In exchange, the Wizards gave up Etan, Pech, and Songaila, three guys who probably would not have seen much playing time anyway, unless there were another rash of injuries. Etan and Pech are question marks, but each will probably be glad to get a chance for a fresh start. It could be a gamble that pays off big for Minn. If not, they still have the #5 and Songaila.

So on the whole, it seems like a trade that helps both teams.


Posted by: PostSubscriber | June 24, 2009 7:20 AM | Report abuse

Terrible deal. Mike Miller and Randy Foye? This is a straight salary dump and we got fleeced.
GUARANTEE someone drafted between 5 and 10 winds up in either the all star game or a good young player who is a major contributor on his team. These two guys won't help us at all.

Foye is the classic 'best player on a bad team'. Besides Al Jefferson, the Wolves had no other real scorers. Someone had to take the shot. Foye was less than 41% last season from the floor. On a good team, he'd have been even worse. (see Juwan Howard).

Miller scored less than 10 ppg last year and his best days are behind him. Surely we could have done better than this and still managed to dump salaries.

I've never bought into the 'Cheap Abe' talk and I always believed it when I'd read that Abe wanted to win a championship before he died and money wasn't as important to him. Now, I'm not so sure. I'm sure EG was instructed to get under the cap by any means necessary. Rather than wait and take a chance that we'd wind up eating the pick, he took this REALLY POOR deal.

I know the draft is a crap shoot but right after the first 10 picks are taken, I'm sure I will be able to name at least 3 guys that this team will regret not picking.

Terrible...TERRIBLE deal. I wish I could get my money back from my season tickets. I though we were building for the future. How wrong I was.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 7:21 AM | Report abuse

Hollinger likes the deal

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=wizardstrade-090623

but I still don't see how it helps us win more games. Both guys are backups at this point in their careers. I can see how Miller can help with the 3 point shooting and surely Foye is better than James but was the bench our weak spot last year?

We finally got some 3 point shooters but it seems to me we're still loading up on offensive oriented players. Of course, this appears on the surface to be a deal aimed at next year. Both contracts are due to end after this year and maybe we're setting ourselves up to dip into free agency?

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 7:28 AM | Report abuse

Damn, what negative fans we have. I can't wait for the season to start and we play well to see all of these tunes change. Me, I like the trade and I think Ernie knows what he is doing. Just wait and see.

TRUE WIZ FAN FOR LIFE!! GO WIZ!!!!!!!

Posted by: ivyleague | June 24, 2009 7:29 AM | Report abuse

BTW, Foye's scouting report and the stats suggest that he rarely goes into the paint and attacks the rim, He's strictly a jump shooter.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 7:33 AM | Report abuse

flohrtv

I would have no problem with the deal if they would have waited till Minn gave up their 18th pick. Then we would have been able to pick up some front court help. anyone who thinks another 2nd round pick is going to help this team win soon hasn't been watching our other 2nd round picks.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 7:33 AM | Report abuse

I believe Minn had to move Foye since everyone kept complaining they traded him for "BRANDON ROY"

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 7:36 AM | Report abuse

Kind of strange that we're discussing how cheap Abe is the summer after he shelled out $150 Mil+ in contracts to Gil and AJ. The Wizards don't need any more players that they have to wait and see on, and thats all that would be available at 5. And since they weren't going to get a an All-Star with the assets they had, this is a decent move. Nothing to go crazy over, but neither are James Hardin or Tyreke Evans. They get two rotation players and some cap relief. I'll be sad to see Etan go, though admittedly not for anything he provided on the court.

Posted by: Tempy_McJobhunt | June 24, 2009 7:37 AM | Report abuse

Jay Bilas just named 2 guys that are both better than what we got in this trade. Terence Williams looks like he's gonna be a beast when he gets his out side jumper going. Sam Young is another guy that could have helped us immediately.

We're gonna regret this deal. I know it.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 7:42 AM | Report abuse

Stop with the Etan was a good person and hard worker -- that equated to absolutely nothing on the basketball court which as an NBA player is what matters. The guy never ever lived up to his contract, was constantly injured and never improved (despite all the claimed hard word). He may be missed in the DC community but he certainly will not be missed on the basketball court. Ditto for Pech. Songaila is the only player that provided any thing on the court and I won't miss seeing him playing center.

Posted by: Chad32 | June 24, 2009 7:46 AM | Report abuse

Kind of strange that we're discussing how cheap Abe is the summer after he shelled out $150 Mil+ in contracts to Gil and AJ.

Posted by: Tempy_McJobhunt | June 24, 2009 7:37 AM

Abe had too or no one would come to the games? It's all about if he is willing to go over the luxury cap to win a championship.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 7:47 AM | Report abuse

bulletsfan78, I agree with you. That's my main complaint. We should have gotten that #18. The fact that we didn't suggests that Abe just didnt wanna commit to more long term money.

On the bright side, no more small ball with Songaila or Etan playing C. This means that AB and JM will HAVE to play.

Here what it appears our line up will be..

Gil, Critt
Deshawn, Foye, NY
Butler, Miller, DM
AJ, AB
BTH, JM,


I don't think this is good enough to win the division but may get us to 40-45 and a playoff spot if they stay healthy. Any team that can shoot 3's is a threat. We should certainly be able to do THAT.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 7:48 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Lee, I don't really see how this trade really impacts the Wizards front court either -- we are thin if someone gets injured but otherwise we are fine. Haywood will play 32 minutes and McGee and Blatche will fill in the rest. Jamison will play his customary 36 minutes -- so there is only about 25 minutes of playing time to split betweeen Blatche and McGee. We only lose front court players in name only -- Etan and Pech provided nothing; Songaila was the only contributor but is replaceable.

Posted by: Chad32 | June 24, 2009 7:52 AM | Report abuse

Chad Ford called the move a 'home run' for the Wizards just now on Mike and Mike.
Says we got 2 quality players and rid of 'garbage' in this deal for the #5 pick. He thinks we should be formidable in the East now with the Big 3, Miller and a good combo guard in Foye.

Remains to be seen but I'll keep an open mind.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 7:56 AM | Report abuse

I quite love this trade.

We get accurate 3 point shooters
37% for Foye 40% for Miller

Foye's stat line : 16 ppg 3 rpg 4 apg 1 spg 0.5 bpg 85% FTs

Miller's stat line : 10 ppg 7 rpg 4.5 apg 0.5 spg 0.5 bpg

Miller is actually the 36th in the league in rebounding and 23rd in the league in Defensive rebounding.

That's another + to this trade.

Posted by: WizForLifePilipinas | June 24, 2009 8:01 AM | Report abuse

Both Bilas and Chad Ford are in love with Eric Maynor. They think he's the guy most teams will regret not taking.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 8:02 AM | Report abuse

Why not wait at least until draft night to see whether Thabeet or Rubio fell to us? Both have more value after the draft if we pick them than the 5th does the day before it.

It is time for a change in GM. I understand fixing previous GM's mistakes by trading away bad players and stupid deals, but now Grunfeld is dumping his own mistakes. That is the equivalent of even Grunfeld being unhappy with his own performance.

This is a salary dump, nothing more. Miller and Foye are journeymen, the former on the decline and the latter an average player whose stats were padded by being on an atrocious team. Make no mistake about it, Grunfeld's gaffes and need to fix them have DIRECTLY cost us a HIGH LOTTERY PICK. Number Five, gone, because Grunfeld messed up. How he can keep his job after losing that pick and a 19-win season is beyond incredible.

Abe, I respect you and know you care about this franchise. You are faithful to those you trust, which is noble. But staff must be held accountable for their performance, and Grunfeld's has been poor, a verdict this trade shows even he agrees with. When your GM starts cleaning up his own messes, it's time to find a new GM.

Posted by: SammyT1 | June 24, 2009 8:02 AM | Report abuse

With Gil back, I don't think 3 point shooting is our Achilles. It certainly wasnt when he was healthy.

If CB moves to the 2 permanently and Mike Miller starts at sf, we could be scary offensively. Miller also could help out on the boards. With Gil handling the rock, CB wont be exposed as much and should be able to cut down the turnovers. That's the only scenario that I see that could even remotely scare any other teams.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 8:05 AM | Report abuse

"...anyone who thinks another 2nd round pick is going to help this team win soon hasn't been watching our other 2nd round picks.

Posted by: bulletsfan78"

Ha, you mean like DMac, AB, and GA???? All non contributors from the 2nd round of the NBA draft.

Dont worry Ernie will find a way to bring in a servicable big man with DSong level skills, at a minimum. The Wiz will miss DSong's on the court intelligence and awareness the most...this will need to be replaced for the second unit to thrive.

Posted by: oddjob2 | June 24, 2009 8:05 AM | Report abuse

From a contracts standpoint, this deal makes sense because it rids the team of ETs terrible contract. It also rids the team of Pech whose much anticipated 3 pt shooting stroke has been a non-factor. Additionally, though Darius was good on the offensive end, his defense was comparable to Twan.

The part that bothers me about the trade though is the fact that it devalues the #5 pick. There may not have been a player that would have started on day 1, but taking someone with "potential" is not a bad thing. Especially when you consider the nucleus of this team. Twan is in his 30s and Butler is nearing his 30s. And oh by the way the big 3 have not been healthy for the critical part of a season in at least 2 years. So adding someone that could quite possibly be a front line starter in a year or two is worth the investment.

Posted by: LB89 | June 24, 2009 8:06 AM | Report abuse

How can anyone expect JM to step up when he got no playing time last year? This is Ernie being reactive and not proactive. If he had the foresight he would have made ETaps play the young guys so they would be ready this year.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 8:07 AM | Report abuse

I like the fact they picked up some vets (young ones at that). Butler and Jamison at this point don't need another green, mistake-prone player. Getting quality players that know the NBA is definitely a positive for Grunfeld and the Wiz. Now if they can find a bruiser/workhorse to add inside they'll be set.

Posted by: richs91 | June 24, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse

Playing next to Gil, Larry Hughes played his best. Playing next to Gil, DeShawn turned into 50/50 and when Gil went out, he was Mr. Iffy and is basically self-check. My point is, playing next to Gil, Caron, and Jamison, as a 4th option, Foye is going to look way better than DeShawn, and could be a younger Larry.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 24, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Ha, you mean like DMac, AB, and GA???? All non contributors from the 2nd round of the NBA draft.

Posted by: oddjob2 | June 24, 2009 8:05 AM

GA was not one of our 2nd round picks he was the warriors? AB got benched more often then a kid with adhd gets sent to time out and the only reason DMac got playing time was because there wasn't anyone else who could play. What do you see DMac doing this year after this trade? He sure isn't going to start and with AJ and CB getting 36 mins a game he will not get the same amount of mins he did last year.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Good move by EG. However, the three guys we got rid of were ones handsomely rewarded by EG in the first place. So he is correcting his prior mistakes. Good luck to them on their future team.

This team is built for offense, especially with hiring of Saunders. So again, defense will play second fiddle this coming year.

Why the bashing on Jamison. This guy gives 100% to both the team and the community. Yeah, he could play much better defense but then how many players are really great on both offense and defense. (yeah, not many huh?).

If Wizards can stay healthy, we should be real contenders.

Hopefully McGee has put on some weight/strength and Batche will decide to get his head screwed on for 100% of his playing time.

Posted by: fearturtle44 | June 24, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Also, Foye's threat and Miller's threat, will help everybody else on the offensive end because you got to respect them. DeShawn was 50/50 while teams let him shoot and focused on Gil. If defense focus on Gil, Foye and Miller will hurt them. If defenses play straight up, they won't be able to contain Gil, or anybody else. Offensively, there is no lose links. You got to respect them all now.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 24, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

I think AB will get substantial playing

time and will be able to produce more

this year seeing how thin our front line is.

Unless of course another trade occurs.

Posted by: WizForLifePilipinas | June 24, 2009 8:20 AM | Report abuse

PLease get rid of that tool Blatche as well...please oh please...

Posted by: nowhine | June 24, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

I'm so sick of people talking about wiz vets. We have good young talent that the draft pick would have added to. Jamison has seen his best days. He's a 6th man at best. Butler has played out of posistion his whole career. Young and McGee will be stars given the chance and confidence. If the deal hasn't been done keep the pick and draft Curry. The last time this happened we let Devin Harris go and got Jamison. It sure would have been nice to have Harris last yr and for the next 5. We need vision running this team.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | June 24, 2009 8:37 AM | Report abuse

I like this trade a lot. We unloaded etan, pech, and songalia for two guys who fill two huge holes.

- Miller immediately becomes our best outside shooter
- He’s been 6th man of the year, so you know he’s ok coming off the bench for a good team
- He had a bad year last year, but I have to think he’s going to be pumped up to play for a good team in a bigger market after toiling away in memphis and minny.
- Foye might already be our 2nd best shooter
- He’s the combo guard we desperately needed, and he’s young and on the up. He alone is better than anyone we would have gotten at the 5 spot.

Also, we still have mike james’ expiring contract to trade, don’t sleep on that, I don’t think Big Ern is done yet. And since our 2nd round pick is so high, I think that actually has some value too. At this point I’m expecting to see nick young or deshawn stevenson and our 2nd round pick and/or mike james’ contract get moved for a solid big body to round out the roster. With this roster nick young and Stevenson are redundant. Big Ern isn't done yet. In Big Ern we trust, he's a great GM.

Posted by: tcerand | June 24, 2009 8:37 AM | Report abuse

O-Mark, the deal was a solid, yet unspectacular move. It does go along with Ernie's desire to give his big three a chance to see what they do if healthy.

After the last two years, this type of move will really be good for morale in the lockerroom. Butler and Jamison didn't want to wait for a rookie to learn the ropes. I agree,one of these top 10 picks will be and Allstar, problem is, which one? One or more will probably a real bust, which ones?

Not getting the 18th pick won't be that big of a deal if Ernie makes a nice move with the MLE. Freeing up two roster spots should allow Ernie to use his second pick to find one of those gems he seems to be able to sniff out in the second round.

Either the 18th pick or the second rounder will spend a lot of time on the bench, in nice suits. So I can't see the 18th pick being the deal breaker, the Wiz didn't need two rookies in nice suits.

Not having the extra pick frees Ernie up to use the MLE if he sees a bargain. His use of the MLE would seem to me to be the key to how good this deal really is.

Team could really use a vet off the bench that can play some 4 & 5. If Ernie finds that guy using the freed roster spot it has to be considered as part of the overall impact of this deal.

I was the guy on here beating the drum for Thabeet, seems this move could help Minn. get him if that's the direction they're looking. Rumor is they're waving around the Wiz pick in a package to move up to the two or three.

I'd have liked the Wiz to add a center who had the chance to become an elite defender. If Thabeet does drop to the 5 slot I will really regard this as a missed chance to change this team's defensive
mindset.

But Foye reminds me of a younger Daniels with a better shot, I'm frankly surprised Ernie got a solid starter for the pick and shipped out Thomas's deal in the process.

Miller has been stale the last couple of years playing on some terrible rosters. On the Wiz he has a chance to be a valuable 6th or 7th man on a playoff roster. That has a way of making guys play really well that haven't seen the playoffs in a couple of years.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | June 24, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Lee,

I too believe this is only the first of two, maybe three moves by the Wiz. Would love to see what teams are in need of backup PGs and backup two-guards. New Orleans? Lakers? Pistons? Nets? My guess is that 2 of James/Young/Stevenson/Crittendon are gone.

Read somewhere that the Knicks offered the 8th pick along with Larry Hughes for Etan, James and the 5th pick. Can't believe EG didn't bite on that. We would've gotten the same level of talent at 8 that we would get at 5, plus dumping the salaries.

Posted by: dscottp169 | June 24, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Come on ....you all must can remember, how bad were constantly for years...If anything MJ cursed the franchise with the KB pick. EG has brought some respectability back to the wizards. And what does everyone want? They want to the wizards to spent money like the kninks and still suck. If it was not for injuries, we would all be talking different. With a new coach and a healthy Gil (if that is possible)we are a different team. And can you honestly say that we are not better by through thsi latest trade. Isn't a goal of every team, to get better that the previous year. I tell everyone stop panicing. I am glad we have EG...would could have a gm like vinnie C (Redskins GM).

Posted by: mundeym | June 24, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Abe had too or no one would come to the games? It's all about if he is willing to go over the luxury cap to win a championship.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 7:47 AM

This move put the Wiz over the luxury tax. Abe might have been cheap in the past but he seems to be spending a lot of money as of late.

Posted by: beas13 | June 24, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Agreed with flohrtv: Foye is a good player. I think there's a lot of the small-market no TV coverage thing going on here. Watch him a bit, and Miller, and give them a chance.

Of course, we got a good close look at OPEC and Etan (love you, bro) for the past few years, so I'd say we know what's going out the door. Solid to good deal.

I think Abe is smart enough to know not to refuse an #18 simply on the basis of paying him. If anything else, you can package the pick.

Posted by: info_stuporhighway | June 24, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Jeff Adrien is 6'4 we don't need an undersized powerforward...
we should sign either tony battie, or kurt thomas(if his contract gets bought out by milwaukee)

Posted by: bluedevily1 | June 24, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

I don't understand the logic of most of the people who are down on this deal...
#1 Foye by all accounts is at least equivalent to anything we could have gotten at 5 (and he's ready to play now)
#2 The wiz were able to pick up a 29yo former 6th Man of the Year for the bench ( a bench that needed a veteran scorer)
#3 we were able to get rid of unwanted assets (save for D. Song who did a nice job when he got on the floor)

How is this a bad deal? If we keep the pick you get #1...but not #2 or #3. I think people had unrealistic expectations with all the Amare, Tracy McGrady, etc.... talk. This is a very good deal for what they gave up. That said, we need to add a veteran big man and we will be in position to challenge in the East.

Posted by: cedric_lockhart | June 24, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

how about Pendergraph out of ASU in the 2nd round or Jeff Adrien? What other big men might be available with the 32 pick?

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | June 24, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

As composed the Wizards will fair no better than in previous years. They have no low post scorer or defender. Jamison is unable to defend or rebound with the likes of Kevin Garnett, Elton Brand, etc.. They should have traded to shore up their weakest position, yet they traded for players in an area where they already have depth. Go figure!!!

Posted by: press_606 | June 24, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Amen to Cerdric.

Just like how Phoenix wanted Butler as part of the deal for Amare, teams won't give up their big named stars unless getting something at least close to one back. This trade is truly solid and will almost surely benefit the Wizards in the season.

Posted by: WizForLifePilipinas | June 24, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Cedric*

Posted by: WizForLifePilipinas | June 24, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

We have been pumping up our emotion in the blog world that washington will trade another superstar.We put ourself in fantasy for weeks, we are unable to cheek realities.I think it is time to calm down and evaluate what the front desk crew is trying to do.
The trade put the team in a better shape to continue to improve between now and the trade dead line. The most important achievment is not the 3 million less on lexury tax.To me the trade value and trade situation has significantly improved.The combination of mike miller and mike james salary can still bring a dominant PF/Ceter before the trade dead line or it is going to help to sign extension to haywood and still help in getting a defenssive big man.Depending up on the health issue of stevenson and commitment of NY , one of the 5 gards will be in the package with james with or with out future 1st round pick to put the team close to the top 3 eastern confrence teams.If the team is not performing well before the trade dead line ,expect butler and jamison in the trade world for possible rebuild or quick attempt to regroup like what boston did in 2007.The future is bright for wiz.

Posted by: gtefferra | June 24, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

I still don't think some of you guys get it. The Wiz are not looking to get back in the draft, nor do they care that much about the 2nd round pick.

They only care about the 2nd round pick if they can use it and James (and perhaps Stevenson) in a trade to get a veteran big man for depth.

This has always been about giving the basic current team (i.e the big three plus Haywood) at least one more chance to see if then can go deep in the playoffs. This is about improving the supporting cast with veteran players who don't have to learn so much on the job.

Another thing I think some of you miss is that Miller can be a scoring back up to Butler and start when (or if) he gets injured, which has been an issue the last several years.

This trade has strengthened the club. Now we need to work on getting one or two veteran big men for depth.

Posted by: cannontl | June 24, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Been out of the NBA loop for a "minute". I am just finding out about the trade. I love it.....!!!! With Etan and Song. gone, Haywood should have no more problems getting minutes. Nice upgrade with Miller and Foyle. Ernie looks like he pulled a rabbit out of the hat on this one.......

Posted by: BulletsFever | June 24, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

What's not to like? We got a two legit starting-quality players, one in Randy Foye who is just hitting his prime and should be an ideal compliment to Arenas. If Arenas is hurt, we at least now have a experienced, talented player who could shift to the point. This also moves DSteve to the bench where he can focus on being a defensive stopper and spot up 3-pt shooter if he's healthy.

Miller is a great pickup for a number of reasons: (a) 40% career 3-point shooter who can spot up and (b) gives us a consistent proven scorer off the bench. I'd also take this as a vote of little or no confidence in NY's ability to fill that role. Big point that people are missing is that Miller has an expiring contract and could be easily moved either before the trade deadline or even on a draft night. He's only 29 and has a proven track record as a marksmen.

In summary, addition by subtraction by getting rid of two bad contracts (Etan and Songaila) along with a young player who had no future with the team. It actually opens up some roster spots for competition. Etan and Songaila were only going to receive limited minutes if this team is healthy and I can't see either being happy in that role. Now if EG could only move the contract of Mike James.....

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 24, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

I like this trade a lot. We unloaded etan, pech, and songalia for two guys who fill two huge holes.

- Miller immediately becomes our best outside shooter
- He’s been 6th man of the year, so you know he’s ok coming off the bench for a good team
- He had a bad year last year, but I have to think he’s going to be pumped up to play for a good team in a bigger market after toiling away in memphis and minny.
- Foye might already be our 2nd best shooter
- He’s the combo guard we desperately needed, and he’s young and on the up. He alone is better than anyone we would have gotten at the 5 spot.

Also, we still have mike james’ expiring contract to trade, don’t sleep on that, I don’t think Big Ern is done yet. And since our 2nd round pick is so high, I think that actually has some value too. At this point I’m expecting to see nick young or deshawn stevenson and our 2nd round pick and/or mike james’ contract get moved for a solid big body to round out the roster. With this roster nick young and Stevenson are redundant. Big Ern isn't done yet. In Big Ern we trust, he's a great GM.


Posted by: tcerand | June 24, 2009 8:37 AM

gil's a decent shooter as was metawn last season. i can't say that foye or miller is better than either guy.

you can guestimate that foye'll be better than evans, curry, harden, jennings etc. if you want to, but no one will know that until next year. what we do know is that foye was an avg guard on a bad team with no post man last year, he avg'd 16 pts. he won't get that off the bench here so what's his value over a potential starter like evans or harden.

i didn't think anyone would classify a 19 win team as good either, so i don't know how pumped miller will be, or if that even matters. Miller is another middle of the road guy at his position. Is he a good shooter? yes.is he an elite shooter? no.

I would have much rather drafted evans and see him challeng NY and Crit. I don't think foye's on that level to challenge NY right now. Not drafting in the first round sux for us . boooo Big ern

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

To fill the Songaila role, Kurt Thomas for Stevenson and Crittendon works both ways: salary and positions. Milwaukee doesn't want him. I'm sure there is someone better than Thomas that is available for the same type of deal that EG has targeted.

Posted by: rocky123 | June 24, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I haven't seen that much of either Foye or Miller, but what reassures me about Foye is this part of his stat line:

Games 704 Starts 61 TOs 2.14 Eff +14

Translation: he's reasonably healthy and helps his team when he's on the floor. That's saying a lot on a struggling club like Minnesota. Remember how hot they were right before Jefferson got hurt? A lot of that was Foye's play.

The thing I like about Miller is his background as a sixth man. Think how much consistent play off the bench would have helped the Wiz last season.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse


'Scuse me, Foye played in 70 games, not 704.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

#2 The wiz were able to pick up a 29yo former 6th Man of the Year for the bench ( a bench that needed a veteran scorer)
Posted by: cedric_lockhart | June 24, 2009 8:56 AM
keep it 100 ced! 29 yr old former 6th man ...wh avg'd 9 pts a game last year. Miller is nothing if not inconsistent, why else would a guy with his size and shot be playing on his fourth team, with no all star appearances or all nba team awards. he's avg. foye's avg. we just traded 4 players (3+ the #5)for two avg players.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

I think Foye's definitely better than NY at the Sg position, which he played at Minn.

Even if you Cut all of Foye's stats a bit:

Maybe 10 points 2 rebounds 2 assists

I'd still take him over Young. Plus from what I've heard, he's a pretty decent perimeter defender.

Posted by: WizForLifePilipinas | June 24, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

ABE is not a cheap owner. ABE wouldn't care if you went over the salary cap for a championship. He wants to win very badly. He is not cheap. Arnie is not done yet. We will get a BIG man and this TEAM will rock.

Posted by: gman1030 | June 24, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Overall, I feel like it is a bad trade for the wizards. The only benefit they get out of this is dumping some bad contracts/mistakes they made. While this isn't a good draft, I think giving up on the future to patch and bandaid serious issues will only come back to haunt them.

1. Mike Miller - Had this been a year ago, I think it would have been a decent grab. However, he struggled badly on Minnesota. Minnesota was desperate for outside shooting and scoring last season, he couldn't give it to them and struggled to fit in. How is he going to get shots with the big 3 to be a factor. I look for a repeat of last season (maybe worse) instead of the previous years of his career. If you have a reasonably good chance of getting Stephon Curry who fill a similiar role, why go for a guy that is on the downside of his career.

2. Randy Foye - This guy has been a bust. For Minnesota, it gives them the opportunity for the fans to forget they swapped him for Brandon Roy on draft night. He put up inconsistent numbers. Not exactly what the wiz need. People are trying to spin that he put up numbers late in the season when he got minutes. What player wouldn't be able to put up numbers if they got starters minutes. They have plenty of those already. That was the issue last season, the coaches didn't want to give the young guys a chance. Who's minutes is he going to get to be a factor?

3. The 5th pick in the draft. No it isn't going to Blake Griffin, but with some intriguing scenarios, they could have come away a decent player with a promising future.

I don't think the wizards got raped, but for dumping players/contracts (thomas, songalia, and pech), they gave up the 5th pick and got back 1 veteran who is on the downside of his career and 1 bust. If I'm Minnesota, I'm happy. I can rebuild faster and really didn't give up much. For me, I'd rather have a Stephon Curry/Tyreke Evans or someone that can be a good starter in a year or 2. This is going to be a trade that in a few years or maybe even after this season, you scratch your head and say what was EG thinking? Is cap space that much of an issue. Thomas had 1 year left. Pech could be denounced when his rookie deal expires. They are deadweight, but not long term contracts.

Posted by: al_kohaulic | June 24, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Former No. 5 draft picks:

2008 – Kevin Love
2007 – Jeff Green
2006 - Shelden Williams
2005 - Raymond Felton
2004 - Devin Harris
2003 - Dwyane Wade
2002 - Nikoloz Tskitishvili
2001 - Jason Richardson
2000 - Mike Miller
1999 - Jonathan Bender
1998 - Vince Carter
1997 - Tony Battie
1996 - Ray Allen
1995 - Kevin Garnett

I count way more superstars (or at least very good players) on this list than busts. Why is it that the Wizards are the only team in the league that are never capable of getting a Dwyane Wade, Kevin Garnett or Ray Allen type player out of the draft? Ernie made this trade because he was scared to make a choice. This is one of those classic “playing not to loose” moves. Just call it the “prevent defense” of roster moves.

Posted by: PhemonSkinsFan | June 24, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Can anyone on this board tell me a player who came back even stronger after back surgery?
MeShawn cannot help this team anymore. He only barks when the big dogs are biting (ie Gil, Caron and AJ are all healthy). Have you all forgotten he couldn't even make free throws last season?

As for the trade, I mostly like it but agree with Michael Lee about not getting a first rounder in return. I mean c'mon Ern... you could always grab a 2012 first rounder. What bothers me is that I bet most other trade partners were willing to give up a pick with vets. Oh well maybe he ain't done wheeling and dealing.

Hey Michael... could you update us on the status of Vladimir Veremeenko? There appears to be a void in the frontcourt now. Is he a candidate to be signed this offseason? I saw him in summer league last year and he reminded me off a poor man's Linas Kleiza.

Posted by: elfreako | June 24, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

"And even if that's not the case, there's nothing stopping Grunfeld from working out the details of a trade that would include Foye or Miller and the pick now, using the pcik on whatever player the other team is interested in, and actually executing the deal when the trade embargo on Foye and Miller is up in 60 days." - kalo_rama

There's one minor thing stopping him: he other team involved is under no obligation to wait 60 days for that trade to come to fruition. If a better trade offer comes along within that timeframe, they can take it, and Grunfeld wasted the pick on someone he never wanted.

I never said the second pick had value, I merely said if he wanted to use it in a multiplayer deal, that he would not be able to with either Foye or Miller. And that still is the case.

Posted by: segastyle | June 24, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Don't forget this is a relatively weaker draft.

It's loaded with young guards, surely needing time to develop. With Foye and Mike Miller, they're going to be able to contribute right away. Foye's still young too and may still continue to improve. As for Miller, his 9 mil contract expires at the end of this season giving us some cap relief and if he does well, we could always re-sign him for a far cheaper price.

Posted by: WizForLifePilipinas | June 24, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

"gil's a decent shooter as was metawn last season. i can't say that foye or miller is better than either guy.

you can guestimate that foye'll be better than evans, curry, harden, jennings etc. if you want to, but no one will know that until next year. what we do know is that foye was an avg guard on a bad team with no post man last year, he avg'd 16 pts. he won't get that off the bench here so what's his value over a potential starter like evans or harden.

i didn't think anyone would classify a 19 win team as good either, so i don't know how pumped miller will be, or if that even matters. Miller is another middle of the road guy at his position. Is he a good shooter? yes.is he an elite shooter? no.

I would have much rather drafted evans and see him challeng NY and Crit. I don't think foye's on that level to challenge NY right now. Not drafting in the first round sux for us . boooo Big ern"

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 9:28 AM


i like evans too, but foye is ready to break out, i really believe that. he's gotten no publicity in the artic, but in DC he will be a stud. at the end of the day, this trade will be judged on how good foye is, and what other moves this allows Big Ern to make. So let's all just take a step back, relax, and see how this plays out. We still have a lot of attractive pieces to trade. what i love about the wizards is that unlike the redskins, i actually give this front office the benefit of the doubt (caron for kwame, 5th pick, laetner AND stackhouse's AWFUL contracts for Jamison, NOT matching larry huges contract, NOT matching jared jefferies, etc). also i've noticed some people claiming Abe is being cheap. he certainly has in the past, but he's on the record saying he's getting older and at this point he doesn't care about the luxury tax, he just wants to win. this move helped clear out space to make more moves, not to save money. In Big Ern we trust! i'm very optimistic, but obviously only time will tell.

Posted by: tcerand | June 24, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Looks like a nice deal. The biggest winner here is Foye. Playing next to Gil in a RFA year - he'll see a nice bump in value just like Hughes and Dsteve saw.

As for everyone complaining about Grunfeld, you gotta be kidding. By comparison look at the Timberwolves! They have 4 picks in the worst draft in years and the only proven player is Jefferson. Kevin Love is their next best player. They just set themselves up to be the Junior Varisty of the NBA.

By comparison, EG took a hopeless team, acguired 3 all stars and is now adding complementary pieces.

Posted by: cballer | June 24, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Just because you are "active in the community" doesn't mean it's a good thing. Etan is one of your typical race baiting hate mongers. Get his ignorant divisive views as far away from this town as possible as far as I'm concerned.

Posted by: SadieV | June 24, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

ABE is not a cheap owner. ABE wouldn't care if you went over the salary cap for a championship. He wants to win very badly. He is not cheap. Arnie is not done yet. We will get a BIG man and this TEAM will rock.

Posted by: gman1030 | June 24, 2009 9:38 AM

Body of lies!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he is cheap, he only paid juwan back in the day after the miami offer sheet was voided, we let larry go, we let roger go, we let jeffries go (say what you want but yall had to be on the bandwagon when Jeff was the Lebron stopper and Larry was gil's robin). and him wanting to win is questionable, i know he's old and his health is deteriorating, but guys who really want to win; like mark cuban in dallas, fleece teams like us to make their teams better. we make the rich richer. 4 first rounders and minn trying to move up to the 2 spot. you know i remember people thinking mike james was an upgrade when we traded for him too. i refer to james b/c his 8pts 3 rebs 3 asst in 27 min is about the same production you get from foye with 16 3 and 4 in 36 min. mike james was not an upgrade, we didn't need his younger bro.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

"We got smaller and we are weaker inside."

Not really. First of all, the loss of Pech is meaningless as far as frontcourt depth and strength. He provided neither. Thomas couldn't be counted on to stay healthy (he never has) and coming off yet another leg injury, there's no guarantee he'd be able to suit up when the season started. And when he did play, well, so what? He's basically just marking time until his career ends. Songaila brought toughness, hustle, smarts, and effort, but little in the way in production. Haywood's return to health should more replace what they lose from Songaila, as will allowing Blatche to play more of a supporting role. McGee should show some improvement under Saunders, and his length and athelticism should be effective in Flip's offense and zone defense.

In other words, least season their 4/5 rotation was basically Blatche, McGee, and Songaila. Does anyone really think that's better than Haywood, Blatche, and McGee?

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 23, 2009 11:24 PM


Seriously, don't act like EG did something smart here to "add" Haywood to our 4/5 rotation.

We lost our backup center and our backup power forward. We got a backup combo guard and backup small forward in return.

How can you NOT say we did not get smaller and weaker inside?

I, too, hope and believe someone like McGee can take some steps forward. Blatche is what he is though - a 2-guard trapped in a 6'10'' body.

But unless McGee turns into the 2nd coming of KG, we are still no better off to advance past the second round than we were before the trade. Some extra 3-point shooting from Miller and Foye coming off the bench does not put us over the top of anyone new.

We pinched a few pennies and avoided the luxury tax. We still don't have the $$ to be a player in 2010. As Micheal reported, what we've seem to do is clear enough cash to re-sign Haywood after this season.

Whoopdeedoo.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

...any chance Dajuan Blair falls to #32??

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

i like evans too, but foye is ready to break out
Posted by: tcerand | June 24, 2009 9:49 AM
maybe a herpes breakout. what good has come out of minnesota in the pase two years? they've fired three coaches in the past 3 seasons i think. it's not foye's fault the team was sooo bad but he didn't pull a d wade last year either. he's no cp3, no dwill, no rondo IMO. so don't blow this smoke bout a guy bout to breakout coming from a 20 win team. the tims were as bad as we were last year. i'm so sick off this one.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

is there a chance the trade gets voided if etan doesn't pass a physical or something?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

what good has come out of minnesota in the pase two years?

Kevin Garnett

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 24, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

"Miller's stat line : 10 ppg 7 rpg 4.5 apg 0.5 spg 0.5 bpg

Miller is actually the 36th in the league in rebounding and 23rd in the league in Defensive rebounding.".

The more I look at this trade , the more I like it. Miller is a fiery player that plays both sides of the court, and Foye is a strong PG. Need a center that can counter D. Howard and Garnett- even re-obtaining Big Ben might make for a strong rotation of Wallace and Haywood at center..Kenyon Martin would be nice, though..But some kinda counter to KG and Superman looks to be necessary for the Wiz to be a serious championship threat..

Posted by: frak | June 24, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

"maybe a herpes breakout. what good has come out of minnesota in the pase two years? they've fired three coaches in the past 3 seasons i think. it's not foye's fault the team was sooo bad but he didn't pull a d wade last year either. he's no cp3, no dwill, no rondo IMO. so don't blow this smoke bout a guy bout to breakout coming from a 20 win team. the tims were as bad as we were last year. i'm so sick off this one."

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 10:06 AM

by no means was a saying he's on the level of cp3, dwill, or rondo, he's not even close. but take a look at his stats...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4135

they certainly seem to be trending up to me. and that was on minny, where teams actually keyed on him since he was one of the better scorers. with all the attention caron, jamison, and hopefully a healthy gilbert get, foye will break out. break out is relative. i'm not saying turn into a superstar, but i am saying turn into a very good pro. at least that's the hope. fingers crossed! but one thing i do know that big ern has a very good track record with trades.

Posted by: tcerand | June 24, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

>>Miller and Foye - one of them could actually be a starter.

You trade a #5 for someone who might be a starter? How about is a starter!! How come the Spurs make a slary dump and they get a real star in Jefferson? Why didn't we get Jefferson or some other star?

For being histgorically bad last year our reward is Foye and Miller? Two average stiffs? That's our big reward? You're kiddin me right?
How did Grunfeld lose Jefferson?!!!!

Posted by: dovelevine | June 24, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

please stop saying that abe isn't cheap. folks have been talking in the sports media and on here about the wiz trading the pick to avoid the lux tax. i think mike lee even wrote about the wiz possibly trading the no 1 if they got it b/c they wouldn't want to pay blake. it's not far fetched or an out of character decision for abe. people have been predicting this moment for months.

Other than future first rounders, would the wiz have any leverage in trying to get back into the first round w/o having to move one or the "big 3" ? or is this trade a sign for NY to leave his cars out west.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

"...What do you see DMac doing this year after this trade? He sure isn't going to start and with AJ and CB getting 36 mins a game he will not get the same amount of mins he did last year.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 8:15 AM"

Which of coarse makes your initial complaint about 2nd round picks contributing null and void. I'm sure glad you're not my arbitrator!

Look, I'd love to see Abe and Ernie break the bank for a major FA at the 4 spot, but its not going to happen. And there were none to be had for the assets Ernie was willing to trade. Now I think our best chance of getting a solid 4 or 5 will be just prior to the trading deadline, when other teams may be willing to unload salary for cap space next year. If the Wiz are in one of the top 4 positions in the East at that point I can see Ernie and Abe pulling the trigger and going over the cap to get a big man who will make a difference. They will need this to get by Orl and Boston in the playoffs.

As for your hatred toward Abe, I think it is misdirected. The real problem has been GA...due to his injuries he may have wasted the prime of his career being a goofball. For GA, the sobering reality of this may finally be sinking in and we will finally see a serious team oriented GA this year, albeit with more limited physical skills. If I was a hater, which I am not, that is where I would direct my frustration, not at Abe.

Posted by: oddjob2 | June 24, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Let's say in the best case scenario that Randy Foye plays out of his mind next to GA next year. Then what we have is a "Larry Hughes" situation.

Foye will be an RFA and if he plays well he's gonna fetch a big contract as a young up-and-coming guard. Do we match it? Then where does the $$ come from to extend CB or pay Haywood, or go after any of the decent FAs in 2010?

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

For those blasting EG for the trade, see the article from David Aldridge on the NBA.come homepage.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/06/23/wizards.wolves.trade/index.html

He viewed the trade as the best option of the 3 that were offered to the Wiz for the No. 5 pick. For those who think drafting another young player at No. 5 in hopes they would develop, you've got to realize that EG needs to win now with the current roster. At least he cut his losses by getting rid of 3 pieces of deadweight from the roster.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 24, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

they certainly seem to be trending up to me. and that was on minny, where teams actually keyed on him since he was one of the better scorers. with all the attention caron, jamison, and hopefully a healthy gilbert get, foye will break out. break out is relative. i'm not saying turn into a superstar, but i am saying turn into a very good pro. at least that's the hope. fingers crossed! but one thing i do know that big ern has a very good track record with trades.

Posted by: tcerand | June 24, 2009 10:13 AM

i think people key on those guys b/c they have the ball in their hands the majority of the game and are the teams 3 main scoring options. check the stats for when the big three are healthy, find out what the 4th leading scorer avg'd that season. that should give you a better indication of hoe foye will affect our team in the stat dept.

Only one person can put the ball in the basket at a time. Gil, if healthy, is out for blood same with caron. metawn is pretty much down for 20 so tell me who's losing minutes DS,DM,NY,MJ,JC outside of dom and crit the other three are scorers. All i'm saying is if foye could only raise his avg 3 pts when minn's #1 scoring opt. (Jefferson) was gone how can he break out playing with the big 3.

we traded for role players and that's cool, but it just sux to feel like you got hosed. i think we'd have gotten kevin love from minn if we waited till thurs after the 4th pick while we were on the clock.they have 4 1st rounders minn fans woulda accepted love being gone if they drafted psycho T with one of their later picks. it seemed like we pulled the trigger to fast.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Honest Abe got a monument and CHEAP ABE got Mike Miller and Randy Foye!! Didn't we learn with Wes don't give up bigs for small (do I smell Mitch Richmond II). So we give up three bigs for two! It gonna be fun watching McGuire play the 5 after a couple of injuries to BTH and AB.

Posted by: agent_0852 | June 24, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Ok... now lets send Miller, Mike James and Nick Young to NY for Hughes and David Lee.

Posted by: Darnell1 | June 24, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

You'd have to be a moron to think Abe was cheap. It might have been a fair knock back in the Cap Center, but Abe Pollin has spent and spent and spent on this team since moving it to Verizon... including building Verizon Center *with his own money*. He didn't hold up DC for public funding or threaten to move to Oklahoma City or Memphis - he spent roughly $260 million of his own money building a better arena and, basically, rebuilt DC's downtown in the process. You would be hard-pressed to find an owner of another basketball team who has put as much of his money into a city as Abe has for DC, and if you don't see that you are either stupid or willfully blind.

Have his Wizards teams been great? No. But it hasn't been for lack of spending. He gave Juwon the $100 million contract. He gave Weber a fat contract. He gave Caron, Antawn and Gilbert above market contracts. He's paid for players... he's just paid for the wrong ones. That's not cheapness, that's bad evaluation and bad cap management. If anything, Abe Pollin's major problem has been his tendency to put his trust in someone and keep it there, even when that person has shown they aren't very good at what they do (the most obvious example being Wes Unseld: a great player, but a poor GM and coach). He finally figured it out when he showed Michael Jordan the door... and Grunfeld at least made us quasi-respectable for a few years.

Don't call Pollin cheap. It makes you look stupid. Get some current facts and figures on your side before you malign a man who has been one of Washington, DC's biggest benefactors.

On the trade: I like it, but I have to assume we'll be getting some muscle before the season or we will be in trouble. Unless Grunfeld thinks Blatche is about to make a very unlikely leap to consistency. I agree with the folks on here who question Songaila's inclusion. He's consistently solidly average, but that's better than any back-up big man we have left.

Posted by: Ootek | June 24, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

For those saying Miller had a bad year last year, he still shot 48%...that's better than his career average.

His PPG was down because he took less shots. Not sure why, perhaps he wasn't a good fit for the MN offense.

The other exciting thing about this trade is it ocnfirms that the Wiz are going to shoot the ball a lot next year.

Posted by: isnadd | June 24, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Thanks wizfan89.

Posted by: cannontl | June 24, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

For those blasting EG for the trade, see the article from David Aldridge on the NBA.come homepage.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/06/23/wizards.wolves.trade/index.html

He viewed the trade as the best option of the 3 that were offered to the Wiz for the No. 5 pick. For those who think drafting another young player at No. 5 in hopes they would develop, you've got to realize that EG needs to win now with the current roster. At least he cut his losses by getting rid of 3 pieces of deadweight from the roster.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 24, 2009 10:19 AM

Sorry. Not impressed.

First, I refuse to give kudos to EG for "getting rid of 3 pieces of deadweight from the roster", when HE was the one to create that deadweight to begin with by giving out some bad contracts and the Pesh pick.

Second, I'm trying to figure out why the Spurs were able to land a player like RJ, while Foye/Miller was the "best" EG could trump up in a deal.

Third, Aldridge talks alot about "if Gilbert Arenas has a set back or goes down". If Gilbert Arenas does have a set back or go down, do you really think Randy Foye is going to lead this team to the Finals???? Seriously???? If GA goes down again this team is FINISHED.

Even if he doesn't, this team is good enough to get bounced in the second round with a bunch of permimeter shooters and no inside presence that will make a difference in the playoffs.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

What is the issue here? You can't bring in a star without giving up one of the big 3. No one wants AJ's contract and CB should be untouchable. So what were you expecting? Even if they could of brought someone like TMac in, where were all the shots going to come from to keep all FOUR guys happy? They added two guys that don't demand the ball, but can score it when defenses collapse on Gil and Caron. I agree, that EG is not done. If the Wiz can add a servicable four by moving some of the extra guards then watch out. This is all of course hoping that Gil's knee is ok which is a big if.

Posted by: CC12 | June 24, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

As for your hatred toward Abe, I think it is misdirected. The real problem has been GA...due to his injuries he may have wasted the prime of his career being a goofball. For GA, the sobering reality of this may finally be sinking in and we will finally see a serious team oriented GA this year, albeit with more limited physical skills. If I was a hater, which I am not, that is where I would direct my frustration, not at Abe.


Posted by: oddjob2 | June 24, 2009 10:15 AM

oddball indeed!

gil coming here put the wiz back on the map. his goofballness mixed with his all nba level play,league leading scoring and game winning shots are what i should be mad at, not larry hughes gone, jared jeffries gone and the whole eastern conf generally getting better while we got worse. there was no eastern conference team within 10 games of how bad we were last year ( a fact attributed largely to the loss of GA)

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Wonder if its time to bring Veremeenko over, but hes a 6 10 big that plays like pech

Posted by: redstick3 | June 24, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

What is the issue here? You can't bring in a star without giving up one of the big 3.

Posted by: CC12 | June 24, 2009 10:29 AM


Really? The Spurs managed to land Richard Jefferson and they didn't have to give up Parker, Duncan or Ginobli.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

p1funk: "How can you NOT say we did not get smaller and weaker inside?"

Because we didn't. We gave up one inside player --Darius Songaila -- and a couple contracts.

Darius is the only one who played last year. Oleksiy averaged less than 9 minutes in only 32 games, which given the Wiz' season, should tell us what they think of him. Etan averaged less than 12 minutes -- in only 26 games. A player I always liked, but I think he's done.

People complained all season about the young bigs not getting enough minutes -- well, now they'll get more.

The Wolves can actually use Darius to go with their two young big men and Craig Smith. But take a glance at their roster --after Foye and Miller, they had Sebastian Telfair, rookie Bobby Brown, and a couple swing players like Rodney Carney. You cant go into a season with that. So they'll have to draft one at 5. Who've they got their eye on? Rubio, Harden, maybe Holiday or Jennings -- one or two will be available.

Was it a good trade? Hell if I know. I'm going to wait and see with everyone else. I do know that Foye and Miller seems like quite a price to pay for a rookie guard. Of course, OJ Mayo worked out OK for Memphis, right?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

p1funk: "How can you NOT say we did not get smaller and weaker inside?"

Because we didn't. We gave up one inside player --Darius Songaila -- and a couple contracts.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2009 10:36 AM

Fine. I'll conceed that the only inside player of value that we lost was Songaila.

BUT WE STILL LOST HIM! Arguably our best and toughest interior defender. And we got 2 perimeter players back.

THAT STILL MAKES US SMALLER AND WEAKER INSIDE, WHERE WE WERE ALREADY SMALL AND WEAK!

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

no one hates abe. don't act like he built the stadium for free. everyone was building newer stadiums at the time. the stadium isn't a public works facility he charges people to enter. while he has undoubtably been one of the city's biggest contributors, that don't mean that he spends on his team. he made the easy choices with gil and tawn. gil was his superstar had to keep him. we traded away devin harris and 2 role players for tawn who was an all star, so we had to sign him. i like the phonebooth' it' s helped to revitalize the downtown area. that don't mean that either one of us knows what his motive was for authorizing this move

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Well, Bulletsfan78, you have made a good point: YOU ARE AN IDIOT!! But you have some compadres, who are as stupid as you, echoing your ugly sentiment towards a man that has done more than anyone else for this city in terms of sports and rehabilitation for slum areas. Congratulations! Wear your dumb ass button with pride.

Posted by: opita1 | June 24, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Really? The Spurs managed to land Richard Jefferson and they didn't have to give up Parker, Duncan or Ginobli.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 10:36 AM

RJ is one of the most overrated, overpaid players in the league. What would his role have been? The spurs got him to hit the corner three for them. I would think that the Wiz are looking for a similar player, one that can hit the open 3 after gil or caron break down the d. Mike Miller gives them that without the attitude and demand to have the ball. Plus you get a up and coming combo guard in Foye who can shoot the rock as well.

Posted by: CC12 | June 24, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

The Wolves can actually use Darius to go with their two young big men and Craig Smith. But take a glance at their roster --after Foye and Miller, they had Sebastian Telfair, rookie Bobby Brown, and a couple swing players like Rodney Carney. You cant go into a season with that. So they'll have to draft one at 5. Who've they got their eye on? Rubio, Harden, maybe Holiday or Jennings -- one or two will be available.

Was it a good trade? Hell if I know. I'm going to wait and see with everyone else. I do know that Foye and Miller seems like quite a price to pay for a rookie guard. Of course, OJ Mayo worked out OK for Memphis, right?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2009 10:36 AM

well they've got 4 picks to fix their roster with. it's all good though miller , foye.....CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!
this shi++ is effin crazy. we win 19 games so we get better by trading our lottery pick for some second tier guys from a 24 win team.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

I like this trade. Could have been better if the team also received the Wolves late 1st round pick. They finally grab a 3 pt shooter that they lack and Foye is better (now) than everybody they could have pick at 5. There is logjam at 2 currently so EG will probably looking for another trade to get a quality back up PF/C.

Posted by: Dave381 | June 24, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

We should've drafted Stephen Curry and given away Mike James, Deshawn, Pecherov, and Etan to anybody...and kept Songaila. Now...whose going to get rebounds and defend Perkins, Garnett, Howard, Yao, Beasley, Duncan, Gasol, the list goes on. We will get killed on the offensive glass, and our interior defense...things that get get you deep into the playoffs...will be lacking.

Plan B should've involved figuring out a way to land Amare Stoudamire.

This team...8th seed...Boston or Cleveland in first round...home early. I love the Wiz, but do you really think they will contend in the east? I hope I'm wrong.

Posted by: EJHooper | June 24, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

i think people key on those guys b/c they have the ball in their hands the majority of the game and are the teams 3 main scoring options. check the stats for when the big three are healthy, find out what the 4th leading scorer avg'd that season. that should give you a better indication of hoe foye will affect our team in the stat dept.

Only one person can put the ball in the basket at a time. Gil, if healthy, is out for blood same with caron. metawn is pretty much down for 20 so tell me who's losing minutes DS,DM,NY,MJ,JC outside of dom and crit the other three are scorers. All i'm saying is if foye could only raise his avg 3 pts when minn's #1 scoring opt. (Jefferson) was gone how can he break out playing with the big 3.

we traded for role players and that's cool, but it just sux to feel like you got hosed. i think we'd have gotten kevin love from minn if we waited till thurs after the 4th pick while we were on the clock.they have 4 1st rounders minn fans woulda accepted love being gone if they drafted psycho T with one of their later picks. it seemed like we pulled the trigger to fast.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 10:22 AM

good point, and i wouldn't be suprised to see his scoring take a bit of a hit even, but that doesn't mean he won't be a better player overall. and that's where flip comes in! this roster is made for him, at the very least we're gonna be a ton of fun to watch next year. he's gonna make it work. and we weren't getting kevin love for the 5 pick. the new team president has made it very clear that love and jefferson are off limits. and maybe love could be had, but certainly not just for the # 5 pick and contracts, this guy is building around love and jefferson. and what is all this love for richard jefferson i've seen in some of these posts? i'd rather have foye and miller any day of the week. jefferson is a solid scorer, but brings nothing else to the table. and even though he's only 29, with all his ankle issues his best years are behind him. plus his contract sux. with miller we have an out b/c his contract is expiring too. if it works out, resign him, if not, use that as trade bait at the deadline. also, i'm not worried about miller being an FA and roye being a RFA b/c we are one of about 5 teams that are not in "cost cutting mode" that will actually have some cap space. in this economy it's a buyers market, the ridiculous contracts for mid level guys of years past are done, at least for the time being.

Posted by: tcerand | June 24, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

"..don't act like he built the stadium for free."

Of course not, you dumb moron. He paid for it with his own money, he didn't rob the city and its taxpayers like the redskins and the Nationals had done.

Posted by: opita1 | June 24, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

I don't understand where folks are coming from who like this move.

With Gil, CB and AJ, and Nick Young coming off the bench were the Wiz really THAT needy for permimeter shooting? Has perimeter shooting/ball-handling really been the big obstacle blocking the Wiz from making that next big move?

We have ALWAYS lacked legit inside presence and defense. That has always been the issue. This trade does NOTHING to address that. By giving up those guys, we just got weaker in a spot where we were already weak.

Sure, maybee McGee and McGuire are the second coming of KG and Barkley. But that's a heck of gamble to make when you are supposedly gearing up for a Finals run.

But we just gave up our veteran big man depth to bloster an area that didn;t need bolstering. Maybe that big man depth wasn't so great, but it was better than NOTHING - which is what we've got now.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Overpay Arenas then Haywood and Caron go free agent. Wiz had to dump 4 guys just to afford Arenas and clear space for Haywood/Caron. Let see how the $100 million dollar knee holds up.

Posted by: jercha | June 24, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Well, Bulletsfan78, you have made a good point: YOU ARE AN IDIOT!! But you have some compadres, who are as stupid as you, echoing your ugly sentiment towards a man that has done more than anyone else for this city in terms of sports and rehabilitation for slum areas. Congratulations! Wear your dumb ass button with pride.

Posted by: opita1 | June 24, 2009 10:43 AM
judgements are being made on a basketball operations basis, not personal. no one hates this kind old man we know as Abe. i think a lot of people are disgusted with the move. just like with snyder, who are we to tell him how to run his team? it still sux though.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe some of these posts. This team needed to dump some guys that made too much money for what they contributed. They did that. Also, personally, I'd be thrilled if we got a guy at #5 who put up 16.3 ppg and 4.3 assists in his third year. That's Foye. And it's a sure thing, Ernie's not on a guess, which is what it would be if he chose someone with the fifth pick. Looks like a good deal to me. BTW, just who was it that "Cheap Abe" was going to sign that would make a difference in this team's chances to contend. I don't see anybody out there.

Posted by: Charles_Day@comcast.net | June 24, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

This is the difference between FANS and GMs. Ernie has to look after the long-term longevity of the team. If he keeps the pick and is unable to re-sign Haywood, you will say he's stupid and Abe is cheap.

You say Foye is too small to play SG but you want to draft Curry.

You say draft Evans but he shot what 19% from 3pt. range?

You say draft Thabeet but are so enamored with McGee.

Come on, be realistic. Amare, T-Mac, Jordan of '95, Magic and Kobe were not coming for the 5th pick. Everybody in the draft is UNPROVEN, even Griffin. Shaun Livingston was supposed to be the next Magic. I'll take a 25 year old 16ppg guard that can back up Gil (if he's not healthy) or provide some more scoring from the backcourt (isn't that what Curry, or Harden were SUPPOSED to do?)

Miller provides a 3 point threat. It's needed. Trust me. I bet we were somewhere near the bottom with that. 3 point shooters open lanes for slashers like Caron, and Gil. When the lanes open and they collapse...Miller could be huge, Foye as well.

James with his expiring contract and Dixon are out the door, DeShawn had back surgery, Gil is still up in the air so Critt, NY, Foye, and Miller (Since he can play the 2 and 3) are the only definites. If Gil and DS can't go, Foye and Miller can start with Critt and Young backing them up. Much better than over the hill Daniels and Dee Brown or McGuire or Caron playing the 2. VERSATILITY PEOPLE! Both of them can play 2 positions to cover for the injuries that have plagued us. Gil drops, Foye steps in. Caron drops, Miller steps in.

If they dont work out, they can BOTH leave. An free up more space to sign Haywood and another piece if this configuration doesn't work out. Keep in mind, James and Miller have expiring contracts so that's what 14-16 million in tradable assets? Since you guys love fantasizing...dream on what that could bring. I'm thinking in worse case scenarios. God forbid Gil actually returns to form, Jamison keeps pumping out 20/10 games, Caron cuts down turnovers and let alone 1, 2, 3, or maybe all 4 of Blatche, McGee, Young and McGuire take a significant step forward or Flip makes a difference, things could be vastly improved.

And for those saying Foye was average on a bad team, ask average guards what they turn into on GOOD teams, and he's young. He may get even better.

With all that said, Blatche and McGee are being counted on to improve so they better step up and be ready...and we still need to find another big man in the Reggie Evans mold.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 24, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

RJ is one of the most overrated, overpaid players in the league. What would his role have been? The spurs got him to hit the corner three for them. I would think that the Wiz are looking for a similar player, one that can hit the open 3 after gil or caron break down the d. Mike Miller gives them that without the attitude and demand to have the ball. Plus you get a up and coming combo guard in Foye who can shoot the rock as well.

Posted by: CC12 | June 24, 2009 10:46 AM

Part of my beef is why the Wiz are looking for "similar players" to begin with.

Why do we need MORE outside shooting. Gil, AJ, Caron and Nick Young don't give us enough outside shooting?

Is lack of permieter scoring really the problem with the Wizards??

You're gonna have to roll 5 basketballs out on the court for this team to be effective and get the most out fo the players they have.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

"..don't act like he built the stadium for free."

Of course not, you dumb moron. He paid for it with his own money, he didn't rob the city and its taxpayers like the redskins and the Nationals had done.

Posted by: opita1 | June 24, 2009 10:48 AM

more so saying that he didn't build the stadium and oopen it up for free to the public. i guess that's why you didn't include that part of my post in your quote. next time past the whole quote and then try to build your strawman. is dumb moron your best shot or are we gonna escalate this cuz i got some great stories about your moms and peter john ramos.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

i think we need a guy to defend the three point shooters more than another guy to jack 3pt shots. we got killed by other teams from beyond the arc while shooting below avg from 3. a 6'5-6'7 (evans)combo guard might have a lil more range to close out on the shooter than a 6'2-6'3 combo guard (foye). Miller won't defend anyone period.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

This is the difference between FANS and GMs. Ernie has to look after the long-term longevity of the team. If he keeps the pick and is unable to re-sign Haywood, you will say he's stupid and Abe is cheap.

You say Foye is too small to play SG but you want to draft Curry.

You say draft Evans but he shot what 19% from 3pt. range?

You say draft Thabeet but are so enamored with McGee.

Come on, be realistic. Amare, T-Mac, Jordan of '95, Magic and Kobe were not coming for the 5th pick. Everybody in the draft is UNPROVEN, even Griffin. Shaun Livingston was supposed to be the next Magic. I'll take a 25 year old 16ppg guard that can back up Gil (if he's not healthy) or provide some more scoring from the backcourt (isn't that what Curry, or Harden were SUPPOSED to do?)

Miller provides a 3 point threat. It's needed. Trust me. I bet we were somewhere near the bottom with that. 3 point shooters open lanes for slashers like Caron, and Gil. When the lanes open and they collapse...Miller could be huge, Foye as well.

James with his expiring contract and Dixon are out the door, DeShawn had back surgery, Gil is still up in the air so Critt, NY, Foye, and Miller (Since he can play the 2 and 3) are the only definites. If Gil and DS can't go, Foye and Miller can start with Critt and Young backing them up. Much better than over the hill Daniels and Dee Brown or McGuire or Caron playing the 2. VERSATILITY PEOPLE! Both of them can play 2 positions to cover for the injuries that have plagued us. Gil drops, Foye steps in. Caron drops, Miller steps in.

If they dont work out, they can BOTH leave. An free up more space to sign Haywood and another piece if this configuration doesn't work out. Keep in mind, James and Miller have expiring contracts so that's what 14-16 million in tradable assets? Since you guys love fantasizing...dream on what that could bring. I'm thinking in worse case scenarios. God forbid Gil actually returns to form, Jamison keeps pumping out 20/10 games, Caron cuts down turnovers and let alone 1, 2, 3, or maybe all 4 of Blatche, McGee, Young and McGuire take a significant step forward or Flip makes a difference, things could be vastly improved.

And for those saying Foye was average on a bad team, ask average guards what they turn into on GOOD teams, and he's young. He may get even better.

With all that said, Blatche and McGee are being counted on to improve so they better step up and be ready...and we still need to find another big man in the Reggie Evans mold.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 24, 2009 10:52 AM


SPOT ON.

Posted by: tcerand | June 24, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

"Is lack of permieter scoring really the problem with the Wizards??"

Oh heck yes. We couldn't hit the broad side of a barn last season. Second worst 3 point shooting in the league. And if Arenas takes a while to get going, that could happen again.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

"There's one minor thing stopping him: he other team involved is under no obligation to wait 60 days for that trade to come to fruition. If a better trade offer comes along within that timeframe, they can take it, and Grunfeld wasted the pick on someone he never wanted."

I never said the second pick had value, I merely said if he wanted to use it in a multiplayer deal, that he would not be able to with either Foye or Miller. And that still is the case."

And it's still utterly irrelevant to my original point regarding the possibility of Foye being among one of the guards traded before the season starts. I never said Foye was going to be traded (A) immediately or (B) as part of a package deal with the pick. So pointing out that he can't be is meaningless as a response to my original post on the subject, which is why you posted it in the first place. I said Foye might be traded. Period. I didn't say he'd be traded in any particular scenario. So pointing out one narrow, unlikely scenario in which he can't be traded doesn't really address or dispute what I was saying in the least. (To say nothing of the fact that I named 5 players who might be traded, so seizing solely on Foye as the "untradeable" one and running with it proves or disputes nothing.)

"My guess is that Miller stays and that at least one and possibly two of Foye, Young, Stevenson, James, Crittenton is/are gone."
Posted by: kalo_rama | June 23, 2009 11:32 PM

How does the status of the pick affect this point? It doesn't. Period.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

tcerand: "Ernie has to look after the long-term longevity of the team. If he keeps the pick and is unable to re-sign Haywood, you will say he's stupid and Abe is cheap"

I suspect that if things don't improve dramatically this season, Ernie will no longer have to worry about the long term longevity of this or any other team.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

""Is lack of permieter scoring really the problem with the Wizards??"

Is it the problem? No. Is it a problem? Yes, one of many.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Part of my beef is why the Wiz are looking for "similar players" to begin with.

Why do we need MORE outside shooting. Gil, AJ, Caron and Nick Young don't give us enough outside shooting?

Is lack of permieter scoring really the problem with the Wizards??

You're gonna have to roll 5 basketballs out on the court for this team to be effective and get the most out fo the players they have.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 10:52 AM

Actually yes, perimeter shooting is a problem. CB is a 31% 3 pt shooter for his career. NY is 34%. Crittenton is 13%. We need a mike miller that hits 40% and can play off people.

Posted by: CC12 | June 24, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

"Because we didn't. We gave up one inside player --Darius Songaila -- and a couple contracts."

Actually, we only gave up half an inside player, because on the offensive end Songaila was primarily a jumpshooter.

I like Darius and thought he was a nice complementary piece, but he wasn't Kevin f*@king McHale, for God's sake. It's hilarious how people are up in arms about him being traded, when half of the same people have been begging for them to get rid of him for years.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

The thing people need to realize about Miller is that although he has a (well-earned) rep as a gunner, he's a very good all-around player. He doesn't just score. he rebounds, handles the ball, and passes/makes plays. It wasn't by accident that he won rookie of the year and the 6th man award. The guy can play.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

I agree with the majority that this was a solid move but that Ernie Grunfeld is likely pursuing an additional trade to improve this team even more. To me, the only question is will it be a major trade or a smaller and less heralded trade to increase the overall depth in the front court? We all know that there was a lot of talk recently about acquiring Amare Stoudemire but I would venture to guess that Ernie would be much more interested in someone like Chris Bosh who apparently could be had for the right price according to reports.

Now that we have acquired a seasoned SF/SG like Mike Miller, should the Wizards possibly consider and offer a trade of Caron Butler + Mike James (who obviously has an expiring contract) for Chris Bosh? Financially, this trade works for both teams and Toronto would get back an all star player in his is prime with Butler (who is signed for 2 more years) plus some cap relief. I absolutely love Butler but this is a trade that I would make if I could actually get Bosh to agree to an extension before pulling the trigger. However, if Ernie has definitely decided that he wants to keep the "Big 3" in tact, then he will probably just trade the expiring contract of Mike James for some additional front court depth (Jarred Jeffries which makes me cringe) and also sign a veteran big man with the MLE.

As for the trade that just went through, I really feel it is a very solid move for this team. Though not a household name just yet, lets give it a chance and see how someone like Foye develops. Obviously, Ernie has a history of picking up young rising players that are right on the cusp of turning into something special. As for Miller, I think he will fit in perfectly and many will be surprised with the quality and depth of his overall game. I completely disagree with one of the earlier posters here saying that this team did not need to upgrade their perimeter shooting. The fact of the matter is that we were definitely a below average 3-point shooting team (especially after not having either Arenas or Roger Mason last year). Relax folks, this wasn't a proverbial "Wes Unseld" type trade from the past were we picked up a 35-year old veteran. Foye is a young rising player and Miller is just entering his prime with a lot to prove. SOLID MOVE!!!

Posted by: theo21 | June 24, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Actually yes, perimeter shooting is a problem. CB is a 31% 3 pt shooter for his career. NY is 34%. Crittenton is 13%. We need a mike miller that hits 40% and can play off people.

Posted by: CC12 | June 24, 2009 11:18 AM

the problem with these stats is not that we must have better shooters to balance these percentages. These guys need to take better shots, or the three wiz u mentioned only one is regarded as a 3 point shooter. that's ny. cb and jc are out of their game shooting threes. the wiz settled for threes b/c of lack of a post game, or guard/forward who could finish at the rim.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

tcerand: "Ernie has to look after the long-term longevity of the team. If he keeps the pick and is unable to re-sign Haywood, you will say he's stupid and Abe is cheap"

I suspect that if things don't improve dramatically this season, Ernie will no longer have to worry about the long term longevity of this or any other team.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 24, 2009 11:14 AM


well i suspect a dramatic improvement, so hopefully it won't he an issue! haha. and that was me just agreeing with someone else's much larger post, weren't my words exactly. Does everyone know that of the 20 or so years Big Ern has been a GM he's made the playoffs 17 out of those years? Obviously a championship is the ultimate goal, but I'm just saying this guy isn't one of the bum GM's, this guy knows what he's doing. I think we win 55 this year, i really do, especially if we get lucky and gilbert gets back to 85% of what he use to be and the blazers sign Hedu away from the magic.

Posted by: tcerand | June 24, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

The Wizards traded 3 players who were taking up bench space for guys that are motivated to play well because they are both in contract years.

Etan Thomas was never worth the $36M contract the team signed him to a few years ago. Pecherov is a draft bust. Songaila at 31 is an oft-injured tweener, to slow to guard forwards and too small to play center at 6'8.

Miller and Foye at least give the Wizards two live bodies that will contribute in 2009-2010.

This is not the Celtics getting Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett.

But it is progress on a team that had few marketable assets after Pollin refused to let the team consider offers for Butler and Jamison.

Posted by: leopard09 | June 24, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

The Wiz weren't structured to be a big player in the 2010 FA market either before or after this trade.

The only way to do so would be to start taking bundles of trash for the big 3. If healthy this team will be battling for home court advantage in the playoffs. If not, the moving trucks backup at the deadline.

I can't see where this deal hurt this team's interior depth. Pecherov was a consistant DNP coach's decision. Etan has had his chest opened up and has barely played in two years. Ernie had no way of knowing that one was coming.

And Songaila messed up his back, before ever playing a game for the Wiz, playing for his national team. The guy was never a leaper, that injury took a lot of his game away. He's been a nice savvy vet to have on the bench.

But Ernie should be able to find a guy with the MLE that can fill that role and can give some veteran backup minutes in the post. Flip's going to want a vet instead of relying totally on McGee/Blatche to back up the 4/5 spots.

With the MLE to use Ernie should be able to find some guys willing to fill that role. Flip's coached a couple of them already.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | June 24, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

the dramatic improvement might not come from any of these moves though. i said this the other day and while it's not the word of god, it is the opinion of someone with credibility: Mike Fratello said the wiz could win 50 next year if healthy and depending on the draft. the move's might not help anything. it's still about the big 3.

EG isn't a bum GM but he probably gets more credit than he deserves. No championships in 17 trips in 20 yrs with numerous different squads. it's like being in the guiness book for being knocked out the most times.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Well I told you EG was a dumb azz, a GM with half a clue would have waited until the night of the draft and see what developed before pulling the trigger.The Wolves are laughing their azz off, they give up two non descript players and possibly get a future star/impact player while we get another player to jack up threes at crunch time, WHAT!!. First he fires the best coach the franchise has had in the last twenty years and brings in a coach who had KG in Minn. and couldn't win the big prize and then that same coach (Saunders) goes to Detroit and is handed a veteran squad and still can't win the championship and this is the same GM that mismanaged the cap last year and let the Wizards best bench player get away in Roger Mason. I said it before and i'll say it again this franchise will rue the day they let Eddie Jordan go because this so called GM ain't got a clue.

Posted by: dargregmag | June 24, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

You say Foye is too small to play SG but you want to draft Curry.

You say draft Evans but he shot what 19% from 3pt. range?

You say draft Thabeet but are so enamored with McGee.

Come on, be realistic. Amare, T-Mac, Jordan of '95, Magic and Kobe were not coming for the 5th pick. Everybody in the draft is UNPROVEN, even Griffin. Shaun Livingston was supposed to be the next Magic. I'll take a 25 year old 16ppg guard that can back up Gil (if he's not healthy) or provide some more scoring from the backcourt (isn't that what Curry, or Harden were SUPPOSED to do?)

Miller provides a 3 point threat. It's needed. Trust me. I bet we were somewhere near the bottom with that. 3 point shooters open lanes for slashers like Caron, and Gil. When the lanes open and they collapse...Miller could be huge, Foye as well.

James with his expiring contract and Dixon are out the door, DeShawn had back surgery, Gil is still up in the air so Critt, NY, Foye, and Miller (Since he can play the 2 and 3) are the only definites. If Gil and DS can't go, Foye and Miller can start with Critt and Young backing them up. Much better than over the hill Daniels and Dee Brown or McGuire or Caron playing the 2. VERSATILITY PEOPLE! Both of them can play 2 positions to cover for the injuries that have plagued us. Gil drops, Foye steps in. Caron drops, Miller steps in.

If they dont work out, they can BOTH leave. An free up more space to sign Haywood and another piece if this configuration doesn't work out. Keep in mind, James and Miller have expiring contracts so that's what 14-16 million in tradable assets? Since you guys love fantasizing...dream on what that could bring. I'm thinking in worse case scenarios. God forbid Gil actually returns to form, Jamison keeps pumping out 20/10 games, Caron cuts down turnovers and let alone 1, 2, 3, or maybe all 4 of Blatche, McGee, Young and McGuire take a significant step forward or Flip makes a difference, things could be vastly improved.

And for those saying Foye was average on a bad team, ask average guards what they turn into on GOOD teams, and he's young. He may get even better.

With all that said, Blatche and McGee are being counted on to improve so they better step up and be ready...and we still need to find another big man in the Reggie Evans mold.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 24, 2009 10:52 AM

SDNDTSU - After reading all of the folks who do not like the trade, I was about to sit down and write out why it was a GOOD trade. Then I came across your post and I could not have said it any better myself.

I was just debating this trade with a guy I know mentioning everything you said in your post. But guess what, I had never read your post until just now. Fans have to realize this is still a "for profit business".

With any business you have to have "long term vision". This trade was just not about the players, and it was not a trade about being cheap either. Very smart trade Ernie, I know you are not finished yet..........

Posted by: BulletsFever | June 24, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

With all of the former Minnesota guys on this team now -- Saunders, Wittman, Sam Cassell, Don Zierden, Foye and Miller -- you have wonder when Prince, Morris Day, Jerome, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis are coming to town for a post-game concert. I know I'm there.
--------------
That's some funny stuff there Mike Lee! what's up with this Minneapolis invasion of DC? let's just hope they leave the s-curls they used to wear.

Posted by: oknow1 | June 24, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

First I was angry. Now I see how Randy Foye has improved every year in the league, and Mike Miller got almost 40% less shots last year, while still averaging a 48% shooting percentage. With them we likely get a min of 26ppg up to 35ppg giving them 32 minutes each and allowing our stars to limit their minutes to the same.

Pech sucked, but Darius was good. Without him, we can still get our 3 prize young bloods 18 minutes a game (Blatche, McGee, Young). We still need to get rid of jack-it-up James and where's-my-game Stevenson. Count the trio in for 30ppg and we should be at 110ppg. Play even Decent Defense and we should keep others to 104~106ppg.

If you look at the roster with Foye and Miller you'll see we get the 3-point specialist we needed, as well as a big upgrade on Crittenton. It's key that we have Haywood in the middle, then Blatche and McGee playing Big Defense too.

Posted by: liveride | June 24, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

After reading so many negative and pointless comments by bulletsfan78, the only thing i can determine is that he/she is not a wizards fan. Maybe they should change their blog name to wizardsbasher!

Posted by: optimist4wizards | June 24, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

I just want to see if I can understand BulletsFan78's comments. Here's my interpretation:

CHEAP ABE is CHEAP. ABE is CHEAP and his name is CHEAP ABE. Get it? Because ABE is CHEAP. Hey, you know who's CHEAP? ABE!

Jesus dude, give it a rest.

Posted by: wawaweewa | June 24, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Do we still hold the rights to Vladimir Veremeenko drafted in the 2nd round in 2006? He might be a big body without a big salary.

Posted by: joyster8 | June 24, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

dumping all over this deal makes no sense other than the fact that of course everyone sees the fifth pick as a guaranteed star at this moment and yes n a few years when one or two of the guys taken end up panning out people will hammer on the deal again i.e. people calling out the jamison deal now that harris has become a star but that's all revisionist history, we got two quality players for songaila and the 5 and freed ourselves form the cap nightmare of etan, it seems fair enough to me

Posted by: bford1kb | June 24, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

dargregmag, watch the sixers bench dalembert and play zero d and continuing talking about how great of a coach eddie jordan is, grunfeld got gil aj and caron who else was eddie jordan going to coach up and get to the playoffs?

Posted by: bford1kb | June 24, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Wizards: I have followed Mike Miller since he was in high school. You will be happy with him. He flirts with a triple double and can shoot. Better yet, he is a positive leader and will follow what the coach tells him to do.

Posted by: neville1 | June 24, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

DEAR ERNIE,
TAKE VCU'S LARRY SANDERS WITH THE #32 PICK.

He is 6’9”, with an outrageous 7’7” wingspan, Sanders has made his name as a shot blocking menace. He would be a steal at #32 and would give the Wiz some added defense.

Posted by: wiz_fan | June 24, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

why is it alway poor broke people always call some one cheap.

Posted by: lostdogrwd1011 | June 24, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

You know when I first saw this stupid trade, I was FURIOUS. But now that I think about it..there are several things that come to mind.

1. Why on earth did we give up Songaila? Yeah he might be slow nowadays, but dude an shoot the jumper better than anyone. And he was very strong and could finish at the rim.

2. Giving up the 5th pick was dumb. We have about a billion guards on this team already. We need someone who could help under the rim like the expected 5th pick Hill. Dude would have helped alot.

3. But then when I look at it, all of our guards suck except Arenas and Young. I say we freakin start Young at SG. Dude proved himself. So I guess it was kind of good to go out and get some real guards.

4. WHY ON EARTH DIDNT WE SEND STEVENSON?? What has he done for this team except jack up 3's? NOTHING. He was a waste of money and space

5. There has to still be something on mind now that we have 2 billion guards on the team. I know we are going to get rid of atleast 2 or 4 of them...maybe in exchange for a power forward to back up Jamison.

Anywho..I just hope this season isn't a bust like last season.

Posted by: hnic07 | June 24, 2009 7:34 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards love mediocrity. They will never make a deal (ala Boston..KG, Ray Allen, etc) that puts them over the top. They do just enough to generate a little buzz and interest!!!

Posted by: kevinbb10494 | June 24, 2009 7:47 PM | Report abuse

There's no way in H-E-Double hockey sticks that EG doesn't have another trade coming. He has to see that with:

Gil
Foye
Miller
Young
Stevenson
James
Crittenton

all in the backcourt there is not enough minutes for all them. I think MY MAN Souljah Boy is on the way out....Could be NY too...either way, he'll probably package 1 of them with James. (I think Crittenton has a bright future, he's only 20)

Posted by: Gtown87 | June 24, 2009 9:43 PM | Report abuse

"We need someone who could help under the rim like the expected 5th pick Hill. Dude would have helped alot.

3. But then when I look at it, all of our guards suck except Arenas and Young. I say we freakin start Young at SG. Dude proved himself"

My man....I hate to say it but Nick aint proved nothin. He plays no D, and he hasnt learned how to mesh with an offense or create for other people, all he knows is 1 on 1. Yea he can ball, but he's not on Kobe level...yet...so he shouldn't be playing like he is....yet.

As for Hill......who the f*** is Hill!!!! lol...if anything we shoulda kept the pick and grabbed Harden...but whats done is done...we got our guards and we're 1 trade away from a solid backup center.

Posted by: Gtown87 | June 24, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

I think is a VERY GOOD trade for the Wizards. They get two guys that can make buckets and drop 2.5 stiffs (Songaila is only 1/2 of a stiff), and dumped salaries. The #5 draft pick is a gamble and, in this draft, you just don't know what to expect. Not worth the risk. One thing Grunfeld can do is make a solid trade.

Posted by: swishjobs | June 25, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I'm all for dumping useless players, but this was clearly a CHEAP-azz ABE POLLIN special!! Abe NEVER angles to get higher picks in any NBA draft--he just wants YOU to THINK so. He'll keep feeding us a mediocre-to-bad basketball team to keep 15,000 people coming to the game. THAT IS ALL ABE POLLIN WANTS--MEDIOCRITY. Because its cheap to be mediocre. And Ernie Grunfeld is helping him mightily with this task. But I guess EG has to do what the old man pays him to do--NOTHING to improve the team but EVERYTHING to improve Abe's wallet!

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | June 25, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

They basically used a lottery pick to dump salaries! Although Randy Foye is good, Stephen Curry will be a better, more productive player in the long run. No doubt about that. So to say there was no player available at 5 to take is just incredibly untrue. It's a LIE! I've followed this team long enough to know--ABE POLLIN HAS NO INTEREST IN WINNING--he just wants to give fans that illusion so can keep collecting your money at the gate!

Posted by: NothingButTheTruth | June 25, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

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