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Trade Update

Etan Thomas has signed an agreement that he would not opt out of his contract and become a free agent this summer, clearing one of the last possible hurdles to getting this trade consummated. That's not really a surprise, because you don't walk away from $7.3 million -- and an extra $1.2 million. I heard that Thomas signed the deal late last night and is really excited about going to Minnesota, where he could compete for minutes at center.

The Wizards will have a conference call later today to finalize the deal.

As Agent Steinz already announced, the Draft is Dead, so now the focus has to be on the direction of the Wizards, who have declared their intent on being an offensive juggernaut with this trade. By adding some shooters to Flip Saunders's offensive schemes, the Wizards should, at the very least, be one of the most efficient offensive teams in the league.

The greatest challenge would be doling out shots for several guys who love to shoot, especially when the point guard is a notorious chucker. You have to assume that the scoring averages for some of the stars are likely to come down a bit, which might not be a bad thing.

High lottery picks often inspire optimism and hope for the future, but now that Ernie Grunfeld has swapped that for a proven commodity in Mike Miller and a developing guard in Randy Foye, the Wizards are going all in to make a serious run in the Eastern Conference. Dealing away the fifth pick could come back to haunt the team in the future, especially if Tyreke Evans or James Harden turns into a stud in three or four years.

But the thing is, the Wizards will be a much different team by then. Devin Harris has emerged as an all-star five years after getting traded for Antawn Jamison, but Jamison was responsible for helping the Wizards make four consecutive trips to the playoffs. Now that the Wizards are an established playoff team that has lost to LeBron James its past three trips, what would Miller and Foye have to do for this deal to be a home run? Help Washington win 50 games? Reach the second round? Conference finals?

Aside from making the Wizards deeper in the backcourt, I'm not sure I can say that the team has made a dramatic improvement. Foye and Miller don't make the team better defensively and neither can be considered an awe-inspiring talent. I still have to wait and see what's next.

With the No. 5 pick now belonging to the Timberwolves, the Wizards are now left with the 32nd pick and a need to add another big man. I've spent so much time breaking down all that was available at five that I practically ignored the second round pick, but given that the Wizards relied heavily on two of their former second picks in Andray Blatche and Dominic McGuire, they could add a contributor from that slot.

It's hard to predict which players would be available at that slot, but it could work out to almost being a late first-round pick, since there is probably little to separate No. 26 from No. 32.

I'll be back with more a little later.

By Michael Lee  |  June 24, 2009; 10:02 AM ET
 
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Next: Trade Is Official

Comments

It's a bad trade. I can't say anymore than that. Now what I'm I going to do Thursday night.

Posted by: 33dgriffin | June 24, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

very solid trade for what we gave up #5 and spare parts...we got a player in Foye who (if memory serves me) was a 7 pick a few years back and a Miller who I believe was a top 5 pick...not to mention both are

Posted by: cedric_lockhart | June 24, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

I don't understand where folks are coming from who love this trade.

With Gil, CB and AJ, and Nick Young coming off the bench were the Wiz really THAT needy for permimeter shooting? Has perimeter shooting/ball-handling really been the big obstacle blocking the Wiz from making that next big move?

We have ALWAYS lacked legit inside presence and defense. That has always been the issue. This trade does NOTHING to address that. By giving up those guys, we just got weaker in a spot where we were already weak.

Sure, maybee McGee and McGuire are the second coming of KG and Barkley. But that's a heck of gamble to make when you are supposedly gearing up for a Finals run.

But we just gave up our veteran big man depth to bloster an area that didn;t need bolstering. Maybe that big man depth wasn't so great, but it was better than NOTHING - which is what we've got now.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

More from the bigot Etan Thomas:

Etan Thomas attacks successful blacks who he don't agree with him politically as "uncle toms," "sell outs," who "put down their people so they can move up the ladder":

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/etan-thomas/an-open-letter-to-jason-w_b_48247.html

Etan Thomas telling black kids that Republicans don't like them:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1452210

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

"but now that Ernie Grunfeld has swapped that for a proven commodity in Mike Miller and a developing guard in Randy Foye, the Wizards are going all in to make a serious run in the Eastern Conference."

Are they? Do you really think they are making a serious run with the bodies they have at power forward and center?

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Etan Thomas refers to cops as "pigs":

http://www.alternet.org/story/26076/etan_thomas%27s_field_trip_for_conservatives/

Etan Thomas insinuates that others are racist, even when they haven't displayed any racial animus:

http://www.slamonline.com/online/2007/07/an-open-letter-to-andrew-bogut/

Etan Thomas bashes our troops:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0924-12.htm

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

The Wiz watch now is for big people. The Wiz are trying to build the best team possible within reasonable cost. They may have to spend some more to make it happen. We could use size, toughness, rebounding, and defense. Drew Gooden, Marcus Camby, David Lee, and Marcin Gortat would be good additions via free agency or trade. Good luck Wiz!

Posted by: JoeC2 | June 24, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Etan Thomas on blacks who dare not to conform to a liberal political ideology:

"Benedict Arnolds with necks tired from pecking at the
souls of their own people
From that sell out Negro named J. C. Watts
Swimming in conservative pots
Brought to a bubbling boil for his black skin
He doesn't even know that he's standing in
Tap dancing in
Prancing around with a sword of white teeth
cutting the chords attached to our advancement"

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

This is the difference between FANS and GMs. Ernie has to look after the long-term longevity of the team. If he keeps the pick and is unable to re-sign Haywood, you will say he's stupid and Abe is cheap.

You say Foye is too small to play SG but you want to draft Curry.

You say draft Evans but he shot what 19% from 3pt. range?

You say draft Thabeet but are so enamored with McGee.

Come on, be realistic. Amare, T-Mac, Jordan of '95, Magic and Kobe were not coming for the 5th pick. Everybody in the draft is UNPROVEN, even Griffin. Shaun Livingston was supposed to be the next Magic. I'll take a 25 year old 16ppg guard that can back up Gil (if he's not healthy) or provide some more scoring from the backcourt (isn't that what Curry, or Harden were SUPPOSED to do?)

Miller provides a 3 point threat. It's needed. Trust me. I bet we were somewhere near the bottom with that. 3 point shooters open lanes for slashers like Caron, and Gil. When the lanes open and they collapse...Miller could be huge, Foye as well.

James with his expiring contract and Dixon are out the door, DeShawn had back surgery, Gil is still up in the air so Critt, NY, Foye, and Miller (Since he can play the 2 and 3) are the only definites. If Gil and DS can't go, Foye and Miller can start with Critt and Young backing them up. Much better than over the hill Daniels and Dee Brown or McGuire or Caron playing the 2. VERSATILITY PEOPLE! Both of them can play 2 positions to cover for the injuries that have plagued us. Gil drops, Foye steps in. Caron drops, Miller steps in.

If they dont work out, they can BOTH leave. An free up more space to sign Haywood and another piece if this configuration doesn't work out. Keep in mind, James and Miller have expiring contracts so that's what 14-16 million in tradable assets? Since you guys love fantasizing...dream on what that could bring. I'm thinking in worse case scenarios. God forbid Gil actually returns to form, Jamison keeps pumping out 20/10 games, Caron cuts down turnovers and let alone 1, 2, 3, or maybe all 4 of Blatche, McGee, Young and McGuire take a significant step forward or Flip makes a difference, things could be vastly improved.

And for those saying Foye was average on a bad team, ask average guards what they turn into on GOOD teams, and he's young. He may get even better.

With all that said, Blatche and McGee are being counted on to improve so they better step up and be ready...and we still need to find another big man in the Reggie Evans mold.


And to whoever said why can't the Wizards draft a Dwayne Wade at #5, find me a LeBron, Carmelo, Bosh AND Wade in this draft for them to choose from.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 24, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

The Wiz watch now is for big people.

Posted by: JoeC2 | June 24, 2009 10:59 AM


The Wiz watch has ALWAYS been for capable big people.

Randy Foye and Mike Miller do not fit the bill.

That's why it's hard to get excited about this.

We need to shot 50% from the 3-point line all year and all through the playoffs to compete for the Finals with this roster.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

I also think it was a bad trade...even if you just look at potential.

I understand it because now we're free from the contracts of Etan, Pech, DSong and we should be under the cap next year once these two guys and James come off the books.
We'll need to sign BTH, so I'm sure Abe wanted to unload those guys.
Still, if he wants to shoot his wad this year(layman's terms for going all in) and see a championship before he dies, I'm not so sure that this was the move.
We have the same glaring weaknesses we had before and this exposes our young players.

I wanted JM to get minutes. He's gonna get minutes. I wanted BTH to be the full time unquestioned starter and play a lot. That'll happen. No choice. I wanted a sf who could and would shoot 3's and was a decent rebounder since our C is average in that area. Starting Miller would help. I wanted DS out of contention for the starting sg spot. Making CB the permanent starter there would accomplish that.

Lots of if's but IF we're lucky, some good will come out of this move.

STILL, I'd rather look at other deals.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

The team EG has contructed here is a mirror image of the Bucks team he built that also couldn't get to the Finals. Lots of perimeter scoring and a bunch of nobodys trying to patch together a big-man rotation. They maxed out one year losing in the West Finals, and that was with Ray Allen, Glen Robinson and Sam Cassell on the floor.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

brendan haywood is the happiest man in the world....check out his hilarious response

http://www.comcastsportsnet.tv/pages/inner_player?vidID=vidcast_10094&feedID=297&startclip=2

Posted by: nattylite88 | June 24, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

2 underacheiving former lottery picks = #5 overall, frontcourt depth , offseason cap relief.
this trade was awesome, for the t wolves. maybe they wanted to dump miller b/c of his bad season next year, maybe they weren't sold on foye and prefered making a splash with one of the pgs in the draft. they got decent backup mins from bassy last year and might wanna take a chance on Rubio. i can't say that the wiz offseason priorities were to add depth at sg and sf, but if minn's priority was to bring an influx of young talent and avoid possible salary issues with resigning foye after this year. I'm just saying it feels like we got taken.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

...sorry. I meant East finals.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

I think Grunfield is setting up for another trade, otherwise, this trade does not make any sense to me. They have no true pf on this team. My gutt feeling is that Butler is going to be traded....

Posted by: capitolteacher | June 24, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Michael:
I really appreciate your objective and well-reasoned analysis in your writing about the Wizards.

Posted by: disgruntledfan | June 24, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Good post, SDMDTSU. I think you're being very optimistic, though. You definitely looked at the best case scenario.
How about if the team stays healthy? That means very little minutes for Miller and Foye. What happens next year with them? Do we just trade their expiring contracts? If so, we've done nothing but give up a high pick to roll the dice again next year. Only this time, we won't be at #5. It would be even MORE of a gamble with a later pick.
This reduces our options to trading for a veteran. What this trade has done is underscored our conviction that this BIG 3 experiment will work. By all accounts, Foye has been a disappointment for a #5. Hollinger even said that. If my recollection is right, we were one of the best offensive teams when Gil was healthy. Did we really need to add more offense? I like Miller and what he brings to the table. & rebounds and an ability to hit 3's is perfect at the sf spot. Problem is one of our best players is there.

Now if we were to somehow trade CB (and yes I know we will not) for an all star caliber SG or PF, we'd have something...particularly if that meant relegating AJ to the bench.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Making CB the permanent starter there would accomplish that.

Lots of if's but IF we're lucky, some good will come out of this move.

STILL, I'd rather look at other deals.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 11:05 AM

This'll be interesting. CB's game looks like it's slipping. i don't know if he can hang with the 2s in the L at this point in his career. Lemme stop lying. did anyone see the postgame interview after a game right before the all star break? the wiz won it's 9th game or something like that and caron finished his interview then came back and was like " oh yeah and i'm a all star" ever since then i can't mess with the dude. worst team i've ever witnessed and he comes on tv talkin bout all stars. not so tough juice lost a fan.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

This trade is very solid IF by a) ridding ourselves of three big men who did not figure into future plans; b) creating trade options with backcourt talent surpluses; and c) using the freed up cap room and excess backcourt talent in trade (which may have to include next year's number on) we ADD a talented banger (at the 4/5 position) to the mix - one who is intimidating in the lane, blocks shots, rebounds, and can give Antawn and Brendan support (or start if one of them is reinjured).

If we do not ADD one (or ideally 2) talented and tough guys to play the 4 and 5 spots in reserve (think of the lunch bucket guys that give KG a blow in Beantown), this trade is more of the same from miserly Uncle Abe's outfit. The heck with the luxury tax - I'm guessing no one has won the championship in recent years that didn't at least exceed it slightly. A trip to the playoffs and another one and done vs. the Cavs or whomever does NOT represent progress (even though the injury depleted squad only won 19 games last season).

Progress to me includes adding bigs that can rebound and defend, getting past the first round and ideally to the Eastern Conf. finals after winning 50-some regular season games.

Thoughts?

Posted by: knk4jack | June 24, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Barno,

You're an idiot. You're quoting his f*&ing POETRY as proof of some kind of racist social agenda? You're using his criticism of BLACK PEOPLE'S TREATMENT OF OTHER BLACK PEOPLE as "proof" that he's a bigot who hates white people? You're a fool and a racist and a narrow minded bigot. Everything you say to dispute it only reinforces it. Shut up and go away. No one cares about you and your silly, antiquated old world biases. I know it burns at your soul that a rich Black man was the power and will to criticize the good ole' boy power structure that you love so much. Tough. Deal with it. Welcome to the 21st century jackass.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Michael - great and objective coverage of the trade.

I think the trade was a case of getting the best we could given that the No. 5 pick wasn't a surefire player to help a veteran team hoping to make some noise in the playoffs....this gives the team some flexibility to make additional moves near the trade deadline if the team is one or two players away from truly contending.

A fact that few people are discussing on this blog is the condition of DSteve's back after surgery. Many players who have that type of disc surgery never recover 100% and often have reoccurences. EG may have felt strongly we needed a starting-calibre SG or an upgrade at the position.

Comparing Foye to Curry is apples and oranges. Foye is a very solidly built 6 4'', 200 lb. guard who will hold up much better on the defensive end and in driving to the basket. Curry is clearly the better shooter with greater range, but he's rail thin and may never fill out to the point of being an effective defender. I don't think the Wiz envisioned him as a ideal compliment to Agent Zero.

I think that EG made the best out of a less than great position and added some real depth to a team that needs it. We still need a strong, physical player who can play the 4 and reduce AJ's minutes. EG may be able to find a player like a Paul Milsaps using the MLE (if the Wiz are willing to use it.)

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 24, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Mark I always agree with you.
Miller will play the 2 and Caron the 3.
I think for the #5 pick, it's a good trade. Miller and Foye for Darius and the pick.

barno, give it a rest!

Posted by: zxhoya | June 24, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

What you people do not understand is that we would have traded the 5th pick with Etan Thomas for a bag of popcorn. Getting ANYTHING in return is icing on the cake. And the fact that we got 2 legitimate players is absolutely incredible, given Etan's contract and complete lack of ability.

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

lilhollywood10, You and I seem to be on the same page today. That herpes thing makes the top 5 for the day.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

I sure am glad CHEAP ABE doesn't have to go over the cap.
Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 23, 2009 11:30 PM

mentalmidget78 - where's your $250M for Penn Qtr homes?

Posted by: Rocc00 | June 24, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

I don't love the trade. Mike Miller is a rental, Foye could be good. But I would like to had a chance to get Evans, Curry, or Hill. I think we should have held out for the T-Wovles #18 pick. I do like the fact that we have some roster space that I assume EG has some plans for. I would rather have kept DSong, and traded Stevenson.

Posted by: Bailey51 | June 24, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

"Mark I always agree with you.
Miller will play the 2 and Caron the 3."

I actually think Miller will come off the bench. In addition to providing scoring punch, he's also a better ballhandler and playmaker than anyone else currently on the roster masquerading as a backup PG. His versatility will help stabilize the a second unit with a lot of young guys when need herding out on the court.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Yeah that CB comment pizzed me off, too, lilhollywood10. It shows us all exactly what his priorities are. Thinking it is fine if you use it for motivation but you can't let that slip outta your mouth when you're in the single digit win column.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

The Wiz watch now is for big people. The Wiz are trying to build the best team possible within reasonable cost. They may have to spend some more to make it happen. We could use size, toughness, rebounding, and defense. Drew Gooden, Marcus Camby, David Lee, and Marcin Gortat would be good additions via free agency or trade. Good luck Wiz!


Some other players to consider: Zaza Pachulia, Antonio McDyess, Rasho Nesterovic, Chris Wilcox, Adonal Foyle, and Channing Frye.

Posted by: JoeC2 | June 24, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

EDIT:

That should read:

His versatility will help stabilize a second unit with a lot of young guys who need herding out on the court.

(That's what I get for typing and talking on the phone at the same time.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

this trade was awesome, for the t wolves

LOL

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

kalo: Do believe DS will retain the starting 2 guard spot? I believe Miller is more suited to starting with the returning starters because of his shooting abilitiy. We will agree that it's better DS?!

Posted by: zxhoya | June 24, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Real solid trade. Smart move cap wise and resigning our players. There was no separation after the first 3 picks. Weak draft.

Posted by: lavar609 | June 24, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Nice response to Barno, Kal. Nice.

Barno, are you even black? You seem incensed for some reason. Simmer down. We're here to talk about the team.

I read that Miller is too slow to guard 2's. I think he's only gonna be able to handle the 3 spot, which is fine with me. He gives us size and rebounding at the sf position. We need a sf who either is a 3 point shooter or a guy who gets to the hole and draws fouls. He'd work AS A STARTER. He's definitely an upgrade over DM.
Foye seems redundant unless he's projected as a sg. I still like Critt and his size/potential. Now that we have a coach, we should see a spike in our young player's abilities. I expect Critt, NY, JM, and Ab to improve. That alone could put us into serious contention.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

All I can say is Grunfeild has to be setting up for another trade.......

Posted by: ccrum87 | June 24, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

That alone could put us into serious contention.

Posted by: original_mark | June 24, 2009 11:46 AM

Serious contention for what? To get to the 2nd round of the playoffs and get beat by a much more complete team.

Right now, the Wiz are a one-dimensional team. Maybe we are gonna be awesome at that one-dimension, but in a 7-game playoff series against teams with balance and skill, like Orlando, Celtics, or even the Hawks or Bulls. We lose.

Even the Cavs are a pretty one-dimensional team like us. And it is only the presence of LeBron James that gets them to the East Finals...where they LOSE.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

And the fact that we got 2 legitimate players is absolutely incredible, given Etan's contract and complete lack of ability.

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 11:32 AM

two former number ones that won't start(5th and 7th was it)one 26 one 29 in exchange for 3 players and possibly a 19-20 year old future starter. incredible alright.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

The one thing that Foye brings is security for Gilbert Arenas missing more games. That's HUGE!

I couldn't stand the situation where everything -- the entire season -- relied exclusively on Gil's knee.

Now, we've got Foye who can certainly fill a possible void should Gil miss another season, alongside Mike Miller as SG. And if Gil plays then we have Foye/Miller who are better than Deshawn Stevenson/Mike James. We've definitely improved.

Now if they could just move Mike James and/or possibly Deshawn, and maybe that 32 pick, and whatever else for a talented big center and change.

Posted by: Independent11 | June 24, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Good post, SDMDTSU. I think you're being very optimistic, though. You definitely looked at the best case scenario.
How about if the team stays healthy? That means very little minutes for Miller and Foye. What happens next year with them? Do we just trade their expiring contracts? If so, we've done nothing but give up a high pick to roll the dice again next year. Only this time, we won't be at #5. It would be even MORE of a gamble with a later pick.
This reduces our options to trading for a veteran. What this trade has done is underscored our conviction that this BIG 3 experiment will work. By all accounts, Foye has been a disappointment for a #5. Hollinger even said that. If my recollection is right, we were one of the best offensive teams when Gil was healthy. Did we really need to add more offense? I like Miller and what he brings to the table. & rebounds and an ability to hit 3's is perfect at the sf spot. Problem is one of our best players is there.

Now if we were to somehow trade CB (and yes I know we will not) for an all star caliber SG or PF, we'd have something...particularly if that meant relegating AJ to the bench.


I wasn't exactly being optimistic. I was just looking at options. If Gil can't go, Foye can step in. No Juan Dixon at the point, no Dee Brown, no Antonio Daniels. A competent player to step in. Same with Caron going down. We have depth, except in the front court and that is something I hope we address.

If we stay healthy, then Gil, Caron and Jamison don't have to play 40+ minutes a night and hopefully they stay fresher and healthier. I haven't heard anything about DeShawn's back so can he even be counted on?

The expiring contracts are going to be huge if we decide that Miller isn't working out. $16 million of currently expiring contracts can go a long way in this economy. They might like the fit and keep him for cheaper. You never know, however, the Dixon, McGuire, Butler, Jamison, Etan days are OVER. Jamison, Butler should be able to exert less energy on offense and play fewer minutes and defense...we can all hope...LOL

McDyess, Gooden, Birdman are all unrestricted free agents right now. I think they could all help.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 24, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

The one thing that Foye brings is security for Gilbert Arenas missing more games. That's HUGE!

I couldn't stand the situation where everything -- the entire season -- relied exclusively on Gil's knee.

Now, we've got Foye who can certainly fill a possible void should Gil miss another season, alongside Mike Miller as SG. And if Gil plays then we have Foye/Miller who are better than Deshawn Stevenson/Mike James. We've definitely improved.

Posted by: Independent11 | June 24, 2009 11:55 AM

If Gil has another breakdown with his knee, this team is FINISHED.

Seriously, how far do you think this team goes if Gil goes down and Randy Foye is leading our back-court??

I'd wonder if we even made the playoffs if Gil goes down this season.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

You say Foye is too small to play SG but you want to draft Curry.

You say draft Evans but he shot what 19% from 3pt. range?

You say draft Thabeet but are so enamored with McGee.

Come on, be realistic. Amare, T-Mac, Jordan of '95, Magic and Kobe were not coming for the 5th pick. Everybody in the draft is UNPROVEN, even Griffin. Shaun Livingston was supposed to be the next Magic. I'll take a 25 year old 16ppg guard that can back up Gil (if he's not healthy) or provide some more scoring from the backcourt (isn't that what Curry, or Harden were SUPPOSED to do?)

Miller provides a 3 point threat. It's needed. Trust me. I bet we were somewhere near the bottom with that. 3 point shooters open lanes for slashers like Caron, and Gil. When the lanes open and they collapse...Miller could be huge, Foye as well.

James with his expiring contract and Dixon are out the door, DeShawn had back surgery, Gil is still up in the air so Critt, NY, Foye, and Miller (Since he can play the 2 and 3) are the only definites. If Gil and DS can't go, Foye and Miller can start with Critt and Young backing them up. Much better than over the hill Daniels and Dee Brown or McGuire or Caron playing the 2. VERSATILITY PEOPLE! Both of them can play 2 positions to cover for the injuries that have plagued us. Gil drops, Foye steps in. Caron drops, Miller steps in.

If they dont work out, they can BOTH leave. An free up more space to sign Haywood and another piece if this configuration doesn't work out. Keep in mind, James and Miller have expiring contracts so that's what 14-16 million in tradable assets? Since you guys love fantasizing...dream on what that could bring. I'm thinking in worse case scenarios. God forbid Gil actually returns to form, Jamison keeps pumping out 20/10 games, Caron cuts down turnovers and let alone 1, 2, 3, or maybe all 4 of Blatche, McGee, Young and McGuire take a significant step forward or Flip makes a difference, things could be vastly improved.

And for those saying Foye was average on a bad team, ask average guards what they turn into on GOOD teams, and he's young. He may get even better.

With all that said, Blatche and McGee are being counted on to improve so they better step up and be ready...and we still need to find another big man in the Reggie Evans mold.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 24, 2009 10:52 AM

SDNDTSU - After reading all of the folks who do not like the trade, I was about to sit down and write out why it was a GOOD trade. Then I came across your post and I could not have said it any better myself.

I was just debating this trade with a guy I know mentioning everything you said in your post. But guess what, I had never read your post until just now. Fans have to realize this is still a "for profit business".

With any business you have to have "long term vision". This trade was just not about the players, and it was not a trade about being cheap either. Very smart trade Ernie, I know you are not finished yet..........

Posted by: BulletsFever | June 24, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

"kalo: Do believe DS will retain the starting 2 guard spot? I believe Miller is more suited to starting with the returning starters because of his shooting abilitiy. We will agree that it's better DS?!"

There's no question that Miller is a more talented player than Stevenson, but I think that the nature of his talent makes him better suited than Stevenson to come off the bench for this team. Stevenson needs to be in the game with the big three in order to be fully effective. We've seen that in the past. Miller, on the other hand, has proven he can thrive in a bench role and really help a team that way.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Overall, I like the trade. Chad Ford said the Wizards"hit a home run" with the move.
I would say its more like a double.
We need a Power Forward at #32.
Jeff Adrien and Dante Cunningham(who played with Foye for a season at Villanova) would be solid additions as would Summers from Georgetown(Summers might project as more of a small forward though.)
If we want a big time defender then draft Dozier from Memphis. Whatever else you want to say about Dozier, he can flat out defend.

Posted by: jeremybozz | June 24, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

marky mark i'm with you that miller can't work at the 2, but to start him at the 3 means to put caron at the 2. it's not natural for him and he's slipping i'm tellin ya. the rotation is gonna be funky for a while as they figure out how to balance mins off the bench b/w the new guys and the current young guys. if ny,jc,dm progress they could dramatically affect the mins of these guys you wasted the no 5 on. if you just give them the mins to justify the trade you undermine your players and could lose the team.this could be a disaster if the youngins improve and don't get deserved mins to justify trade, or if they (ny and the youngins) play well and get the deserved mins which will then take away mins from 2 guys who were supposed to be worth the no 5 pick

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Former No. 5 draft picks:

2008 – Kevin Love
2007 – Jeff Green
2006 - Shelden Williams
2005 - Raymond Felton
2004 - Devin Harris
2003 - Dwyane Wade
2002 - Nikoloz Tskitishvili
2001 - Jason Richardson
2000 - Mike Miller
1999 - Jonathan Bender
1998 - Vince Carter
1997 - Tony Battie
1996 - Ray Allen
1995 - Kevin Garnett

I count way more superstars (or at least very good players) on this list than busts. Why is it that the Wizards are the only team in the league that are never capable of getting a Dwyane Wade, Kevin Garnett or Ray Allen type player out of the draft? Ernie made this trade because he was scared to make a choice. This is one of those classic “playing not to loose” moves. Just call it the “prevent defense” of roster moves.


Posted by: PhemonSkinsFan | June 24, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

"Even the Cavs are a pretty one-dimensional team like us. And it is only the presence of LeBron James that gets them to the East Finals...where they LOSE."

Unless you count the time when they didn't.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

The one thing that Foye brings is security for Gilbert Arenas missing more games. That's HUGE!

I couldn't stand the situation where everything -- the entire season -- relied exclusively on Gil's knee.

Now, we've got Foye who can certainly fill a possible void should Gil miss another season, alongside Mike Miller as SG. And if Gil plays then we have Foye/Miller who are better than Deshawn Stevenson/Mike James. We've definitely improved.

Now if they could just move Mike James and/or possibly Deshawn, and maybe that 32 pick, and whatever else for a talented big center and change.

Posted by: Independent11 | June 24, 2009 11:55 AM

i'm not gonna make a rushed judgement on JC from watchinghim play during a trainwrecked season with a lame duck lameass coach (taps) after he had played a year for another team. he should get a relatively clean slate since he won't be the only one new to running the system this year. critt could be and adequate backup to gil. i don't know that we are anymore secure with foye than we are with crit.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

After reading ET's "poetry" and articles I would have to say that he is a pretty narrow-minded, bleeding heart liberal.

Anyone that says conservative african american's are Uncle Tom's and Sellouts ala Clarence Thomas should be rediculed. Just because conservative african americans don't subscribe to a nanny state form of government that keeps telling them what victims they are and how they "need" government to protect them, and how nothing is their fault.

All this coming from a millionaire first round pick who hasn't done a thing in the NBA. He's been living off of Abe's subsidized living for the past 6 years so he could write his god aweful poetry.

Posted by: right3 | June 24, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Even the Cavs are a pretty one-dimensional team like us. And it is only the presence of LeBron James that gets them to the East Finals...where they LOSE."

Unless you count the time when they didn't.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:02 PM


I was talking about last year. Yeah, there was that one time when they won the East Finals...and then got swept in the Finals.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

i would say they used their lotto pick to get lebron and then surround him with his one dimensional cronies but............

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

"I count way more superstars (or at least very good players) on this list than busts."

I count two superstars (Garnett and Wade), two perennial all-stas (Allen, Carter), 1 guy who's had one really good season but still has to prove he can do it over the long haul (Harris), two guys for whom it's too early to really tell (Green, Love) and 7 guys who run the gamut from good (but nowhere near great) (Miller, Richardson, Felton), to decent journeyman (Battie) to massive busts (Tskitishvili, Bender, Williams).


So final score: Superstars=2, Busts=3, Everything in between=9.

What was your point, exactly?

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Mike Miller vs. DS?

Obviously with a bum back D.S. can't even get on the floor. Miller is a superior shooter and a better rebounder, but DS was a much better perimeter defender. Again, I don't understand why we think we need more perimeter scoring when we have GA, AJ, CB and Nick Young on the bench.

People keep throwing out our 3-pt% from last year. Of course we were playing WITHOUT Arenas.

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

"I was talking about last year."

No, you were talking about how the Cavs were only good enough to get to the East finals and lose. Which is wrong. They've been to the finals twice. Won once, lost once.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

the Wizards relied heavily on two of their former second picks in Andray Blatche and Dominic McGuire....

and that amounted to 19 wins?

Sorry just got off the golf course and missed all of my fans sending me my love.

When the old man gives Ernie the green light (since the roster is at 14 now if they keep the 2nd round pick) to use the MLE and get a good free agent then I will admit I was wrong....

But if he does like he did last year and will only allow Ernie to spend the NBA minimum by letting Roger Mason go and signing Juan Dixon, then I would expect some (not all) to finally admit you were wrong.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

kalo_rama,

wake up dude. Etan is full of you-know-what. stop defending the kind of garbage he spews. he absolutely should be called out. good riddance to the paycheck stealing stiff Etan Thomas.

Posted by: SadieV | June 24, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Those excited by this trade seem to be thinking about how it 'fills a need' or how the guys are 'legitimate' players. That's all well and good... if you want to be a .500 ball club. Look at the top eight players on any of the teams that made the NBA semifinals and see just how stacked with talent, size and athleticism they are. That level of personnel is what this team should be striving towards. That is what it takes to win a championship and that is why you try to get a future all-star if you're lucky enough to pick in the high lottery. Instead, we've traded it away for... filler. If you are going to trade the pick away, you at least try to address your greatest weakness, which with this team is size and muscle up front. Awful deal, and boring, too. Watching Miller, Arenas, Foye and Jamison heave threes all game is guaranteed to be riveting stuff, and to get us deep into the playoffs. After a 19-win season, a couple average perimeter players with no upside is what Grunfeld offers to lure fans back? Awful. When this team skids to a 30-win season, can we finally get rid of Grunfeld, please?

Posted by: SammyT1 | June 24, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

It's a bad trade. EG and FS will be chased out of DC just like MJ, once #5 pick becomes a Star.

Posted by: sonny275 | June 24, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

This isn't a great draft and EG did the right thing. The Wiz always have high picks when there isn't anyone worth getting in the draft.

EG should dump more salary and get Millsap.

Posted by: fj8152001 | June 24, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

I like this trade. Pech was never going to be anything more than a goofy 7 footer content with chucking three's. Etan was a renaissance man but was never going to materalize into a true center. Songalia was okay but nothing special. They cleared bad salaries and they got a bonafide 3 point shooter and a good young guard.

Posted by: authorofpoetry | June 24, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Barno, hang in there, it's tough to speak up against the current majority in this counry without receiving a vicious backlash. They have no tolerance for other's beliefs or ideas. Disgusting, but it comes from our current leader...Barack Hussein Obama.

Posted by: boomer44 | June 24, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Here is my problem with this trade, when you are looking to clear cap money to sign an extension for butler that means he;s gonna want two things either more money than Arenas in which case Grunfels is gonna be unable to pay or someone else is with more cap room is gonna give him that kind of money,and when you trade for Foye and miller who have two years left in their contracts what you are doing is getting stop gaps in return unless you close those gaps before their contracts run out now what is Grunfeld gonna do at Power forward address it in the second round.

Posted by: rmnkevorkian | June 24, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Stop hating on ET!! The man had to come back from open heart surgery--no easy feat for a serious athlete--and he's a team guy, anxious to play. I like his aggression in the paint, and his poetry, and his political stands. You may not agree with him, but he's not a poser or an egomaniac, and he's done serious good for the Washington community. Hey--I hope Al Franken's sworn in before ET goes to training camp...

Posted by: fleurwallace | June 24, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Kalo_rama,

Your comments are among the most ignorant, offensive, and baseless I have ever seen on the Washington Post blogs. Simply a fool who hasn't the slightest clue what you are talking about. You have some nerve calling me a racist. Please provide one single racist comment I have ever made in the 3+ years I have been commenting on WaPo blogs. Name just one. I am as colorblind as it gets and have dedicated my entire career to fighting discrimination in all its forms.

You owe me an apology for that outrageous accusation.

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

"i don't know that we are anymore secure with foye than we are with crit."

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 12:05 PM

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

thats all I can say about that comment.

Posted by: beas13 | June 24, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

"I was talking about last year."

No, you were talking about how the Cavs were only good enough to get to the East finals and lose. Which is wrong. They've been to the finals twice. Won once, lost once.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:15 PM

Yes Kal, I was talking about how the Cavs were good enough to get to the East Finals and lose - LAST YEAR.

Don't be a donkey and try to tell me what I meant, when I wrote it.

And how did it work out for them in the Finals the one year they went, eh? Do you have some snarky comment about that too?

Posted by: p1funk | June 24, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

I'm in the camp that gives the deal about a 3/4 thumbs up and assumes more is coming.

Yes, they are a bit shorter now, but Songalia was the only player they dealt that would have seen any real minutes this year. No way Ernie was going to take Jordan Hill at #5, so that pick would have been a guard anyway.

As for #32, Taj Gibson is the player everyone should keep their fingers crossed over. Big time athletic rebounder. Josh Heytvelt from Gonzaga is another guy (both worked out for Wiz) who should be there, though he is more of a mid-range shooting type rather than banger.

Posted by: b_standig | June 24, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

I have a petition online and I would like eveyone who thinks CHEAP ABE built the Verizon center with his own money (for the benifit of the people?) to sign it for me.

Maybe the District of Columbia will give me some land so I can build a bar where you can come and spend your money and make me more money.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

bring in gooden, mcdyess or birdman via free agency. any of these players would make us an instant threat in the east.

also, according to marc stein on espn, the bulls are willing to move tyrus thomas. is there anyway we can trade for him (maybe deshawn and crit)? hes a great defender and a solid rebounder and seems like the type of player the wiz needs

Posted by: bullets8890 | June 24, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Now if i was EG.. I would trade Miller/Jamison for Amare S. from Phoenix and make the Eastern Conference playoff this year.

Posted by: cevans1019 | June 24, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I read every comment on here and I still say this move was dumb.....
Our GM needs to go, I mean if you want to get anywhere in the playoffs, we need a big banger, a rebounder, a nasty dunker who can also block shots and shutdown any PF in the east.... That ain't AJ...
If we would have traded the 5th and CB(who is truly our best player lb for lb)for Amare and the 14th pick... Then traded the 14th and some bodies for Tayshawn, then we could pick up a G with the 32nd pick.... What we need at G is a pure point, who can take the stress off of Gil, that knee needs to be taken into consideration....

This move makes us the bullets all over again.... Really what has our GM ever done????
1.OK he over pays players wit bad knees, remember NY and the Houston deal!!!!!!
2.He builds 1st playoff losers, remember the BUCKS!!!!
3.This formula didn't work wit the BUCKS, so why is it going to work now!!!!
4.Plus every team hes been wit still sucks, til this day.....

So remember this when it's all-star break time and we look like a sub-par team just barely making the play offs...
Even if we make it, we have no one to control the paint on Off or Def, no one to off set anyones FRONT line... Heck, we still don't have a true G on our team that can start or play on a high level.....


WE NEED A NEW GM, I RESPECT POLLIN,,,BUT,
HE IS THE NBA's, Al Davis of the NFL's Oakland Raiders....

Posted by: xrendellx | June 24, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I know it burns at your soul that a rich Black man was the power and will to criticize the good ole' boy power structure that you love so much. Tough. Deal with it. Welcome to the 21st century jackass.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 11:28 AM

It really does not get any more baseless than this, folks. Nothing brings me greater joy then seeing blacks and other minorities move up in society and into and beyond the middle class. To claim it burns my soul that a rich black man has power and will is simply preposterous. It's disgraceful that you would make this accusation about me without anything to back it up.

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, this puts them over the top. I think Boston, Orlando, and Cleveland will make a series of moves to counteract what Ernie just did. This is on par with KG trade 2 years ago.

I don't mind the trade but did you really have to throw in the #5 pick? I'd rather they take a pick and he be a bust than give it up for either miller or foye.

Can Ernie be the next to go? I don't get it with the Wizards though. It's always about a luxury tax threshold. You have to spend money to mak it. There are no shoestring budget champs in the NBA.

Posted by: BigTee13 | June 24, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

"There are no shoestring budget champs in the NBA"

The Spurs would disagree.

This move the spurs just made is the 1st time they have gone over.

Also with this the Wiz are over the luxury tax.

Posted by: beas13 | June 24, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

And the fact that we got 2 legitimate players is absolutely incredible, given Etan's contract and complete lack of ability.

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 11:32 AM

two former number ones that won't start(5th and 7th was it)one 26 one 29 in exchange for 3 players and possibly a 19-20 year old future starter. incredible alright.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 11:53 AM

You can't seriously call 2 of the 3 guys we gave away real players. 2 of them haven't contributed much of anything on the court in the last 2 seasons: Pech and Etan. And Songalia, while a crafty veteran with a nice shooters touch, was expendable.

Trust me, this move was all about getting rid of their contracts and had much less to do with what we got in return.

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone understand that CHEAP ABE built the Verizon Center as an investment? He's going to make his money back, wait till his estate sells the team, they will more than double his investment. Great for Abe he is a smart business man.

I am a big believer in making money. If I didn't I would still be working instead of playing golf everyday.

Now when it comes to making basketball decisions, I want an owner who says winning is the most important thing, not spend up to the cap and lets cross our fingers.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

thx for the post bulletsfan78. people seem to forget that abe makes MONEY off of this "gift" to the people of dc.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

thx for the post bulletsfan78. people seem to forget that abe makes MONEY off of this "gift" to the people of dc.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 12:44 PM

People on here either don't know or don't care DC gave him the land (the verizzon center sits on)at no co$t, which he will make a profit from?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

You can't seriously call 2 of the 3 guys we gave away real players. 2 of them haven't contributed much of anything on the court in the last 2 seasons: Pech and Etan. And Songalia, while a crafty veteran with a nice shooters touch, was expendable.

Trust me, this move was all about getting rid of their contracts and had much less to do with what we got in return.

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 12:40 PM

songaila can add veteran leadership to a yourg frontcourt. pesh vould fit a role for the tims. he didn't show us much, but minn could have plans for him. let's not forget that they have 4 first rounders and are looking to move up. they may have to trade a player and might need pesh, even if it's just to be a body to give someone else a blow. ET was good enough to put on the floor last year so he can also add depth for minnif he doesn't retire. the fifth pick is huge cuz it adds a trading piece for minn who isn't shy about saying they want to move up. if that pick is as sinstrumental in them getting the player they really covet, then why not bleed'em. i just think we gave more than we got and this year we need a lot. I might've been cool if they threw in one of their young bigs like craig smith or someone. they have four first rounders . sux for us not to have one, especially lotto #5

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

"People on here either don't know or don't care DC gave him the land (the verizzon center sits on)at no co$t, which he will make a profit from?"

People forget that before Verizon Center was built that part of the city was an empty no man's land. Now it's a thriving business, commercial, and tourist district from which the DC government rakes in big money.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Obviously Etan is on the right side of the issues, whether it's the civil rights/human rights movement or the war.

But on BB, I'm afraid that the Wiz are shooting more for respectability than a championship. Gil is not the franchise player you build around, plus he has been hurt. And Antawn will start showing his age soon. So this is what the Wiz are building around, plus the very good Caron. The Wiz are going short term with a couple vets, in exchange for long-term team building with a high draft pick and his high ceiling. But what choice do they have really, given their previous decisions? They put themselves in a "future is now" mode, and will play it out over the next few years until it is time to start over.

Posted by: EdDC | June 24, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Barno1- Why attempt to smear Etan? While Im happy to see the player go, the Washington area is loosing an activist. Your comments about him being a bigot are particulary short sighted- he is giving much needed attention to issues of class as related to racism- something that has been all too often ignored.
We should wish Etan all the best, and encourage more athletes to become engaged in social issues

Posted by: earlech | June 24, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

"You owe me an apology for that outrageous accusation. "

Yeah, start holding your breath waiting for that one, you ignorant clown. Seriously, go away. No one cares.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

so does abe. that's the point i'm making. the stadium is not some saintly gift to the people, i believe the surrounding deveopment was part of the land deal, similar to what is expected at the sw waterfront.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

It was a business deal in which both sides (and the surrounding community) profited greatly. Basically, everybody won. Your attempts to criticize Pollin for any part of his involvement or to paint it as some kind of land grab by Pollin are baseless and without merit.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I'm going to miss Etan, not as a player but as a guy who really drove white right-wingers into a rug-chewing frenzy. I don't agree with all his views, but unless he gets traded to an expansion franchise in Tehran, he's got the same right to self-expression as any American. At least he cares about something besides PlayStation and getting fancy rims for the Maybach.

Posted by: pjkiger1 | June 24, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

never said any of that straw man dan. i just said he makes money from it. am i wrong?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Hey Pollin is a saint in a way. He could have milked DC for much of the cost of the arena, but didn't! He showed us where his heart is.

Posted by: EdDC | June 24, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Barno1- Why attempt to smear Etan? While Im happy to see the player go, the Washington area is loosing an activist. Your comments about him being a bigot are particulary short sighted- he is giving much needed attention to issues of class as related to racism- something that has been all too often ignored.
We should wish Etan all the best, and encourage more athletes to become engaged in social issues

Posted by: earlech | June 24, 2009 12:53 PM

Earlech, I'm all about athletes and anyone else becoming engaged in social issues. And my intent is not to smear Etan but to educate Wizards fans and others about what he has done and what he stands for. Etans refers to police as "pigs," Etan calls blacks who dare not to conform "uncle toms," "sellouts," "benedict arnolds." Etan has bashed our troops. Etan has mocked Brendan "Todd" Haywood for his supposedly "white" middle name. He has spoken out against "acting white."

This is what this man stands for, and the public should be aware of it. When he tells young black kids that "Republicans don't like you" parents need to be aware of this.

Bigotry in any form is unacceptable. But when it comes from someone with a platform like a pro athlete, it must not go unchallenged.

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

People assuming that Miller will start at the 2 shouldn't discount Foye being the starter. His skills blend well with those of Agent Zero (similar to Larry Huges from a few years back). Miller is best suited to help this team as the 6th man who can come in at either the 2 or 3 depending on need. He's a great 3-pt. shooter, underrated rebounder for his size, and a decent defender. Both Foye and Miller give us insurance at two positions (PG,SF) where the key players have had injury issues the last 3 years.

What killed the Wiz last year is there was no one to step in at PG or C when Arenda and Haywood went down. We're still very vulnerable at Center if anything happens to Haywood and I'd be surprised if EG didn't make a move after a RFA like Anderson, Verajao, or possibly Gooden to provide depth. As much as I hate Verajao's antics, he'd be a great addition as our backup C/PF and Cleveland may not need him if they pull off a trade.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 24, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Bullsh*t abounds.

"Etans refers to police as "pigs,"

So do lots of people, Black, white, and otherwise. How does that make him "racist" or "despicable" other than the fact that it pisses you off?

"Etan calls blacks who dare not to conform "uncle toms," "sellouts," "benedict arnolds."

Again, explain how any of that objectively makes a Black man criticizing other Blacks for how they treat other Blacks a "racist." (Putting aside, for the moment, that your interpretation of what he said and what he actually said aren't even in the same time zone.)

"Etan has bashed our troops."

No, he criticized the war which (A) is his constitutionally guaranteed right and (B) a practice engaged in by many people, Black and White, Democrat and Republican, rich and poor.

"Etan has mocked Brendan "Todd" Haywood for his supposedly "white" middle name.

Absolute garbage. He mocked Haywood becuase he didn't like him and the feeling was clearly mutual. Again, provide on actual quote in which Thomas says anything about Haywood supposedly having a "white" name. You can't because the accusation is utter trash driven by your obvious agenda and filtered through your narrow world view.

"He has spoken out against "acting white."

Do you actually even know what that phrase means? I seriously doubt that you do. It's simply another of your knee jerk reaction to any criticism of anything that appears within spitting range of the word "white." You're so transparent people see the tag in the back of your shirt.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

"I'm going to miss Etan, not as a player but as a guy who really drove white right-wingers into a rug-chewing frenzy. I don't agree with all his views, but unless he gets traded to an expansion franchise in Tehran, he's got the same right to self-expression as any American. At least he cares about something besides PlayStation and getting fancy rims for the Maybach."

Dead on, pjkiger1.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

The problem people have with Etan is that he says what a lot of people think and don't say in arenas where they can be heard. He says what other people don't want said because certain people don't want things on their conscience. That doesn't mean Etan is right. But his points are valid. These same people will quickly call Etan a bigot yet say nothing about why the only people that suffer from police brutality are minorities.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 24, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

,i>"People assuming that Miller will start at the 2 shouldn't discount Foye being the starter. His skills blend well with those of Agent Zero (similar to Larry Huges from a few years back). Miller is best suited to help this team as the 6th man who can come in at either the 2 or 3 depending on need. He's a great 3-pt. shooter, underrated rebounder for his size, and a decent defender. Both Foye and Miller give us insurance at two positions (PG,SF) where the key players have had injury issues the last 3 years."

I agree with all of that, except for the part about Miller's defense. He's a terrible defender, but that's hardly out of place here.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Now that the "Draft is Dead" according to Steinberg, the only speculation left is who does Washington take in the 2nd rd?

Since they now have a surfeit of SG and a lack of Power Forwards, who in the 2nd rd might help? (unless Grunfeld makes more moves and gets a veteran PF traded with a couple more players - James, McGuire, Crittenton, Young, Blatche)?

Here's the list of those who might be available at the 32nd pick (off DraftExpress's list) with the right height/size:
Austin Daye
Taj Gibson
Jonas Jerebko
Victor Claver
DaJuan Summers
Dante Cunningham
Josh Heytvelt
Jeff Pendergraph
Ahmad Nivins
Alade Aminu

Reading through their profiles, it doesn't sound like any of these guys are even close to Andray or JaVale. They're all 2-3 yr. projects.


Posted by: rickgonz | June 24, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I want an owner who says winning is the most important thing, not spend up to the cap and lets cross our fingers.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 12:41 PM

You mean like Danny-Boy and the perennially-mediocre Redskins? Spending freely doesn't necessarily make you a good owner. Being fiscally-responsible doesn't make you a cheapskate. Pollin's Bullets/Wizards have not been awful for most of the last 30 years because of a lack of spending. They've been awful because of the lousy decisions that he has made, i.e., because of his incompetence as an owner.

Posted by: rbpalmer | June 24, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I dont know about you guys but this is a great trade!!! miller will be better and arenas said he wouldnt be a ball hog no more, which will make are team better and his teamates, all the wizards need to do is Get a solid big man Like ANTONIO MCDYESS OR A Drew Gooden, off the bench, by the way Mcdyess last year averaged 11pts and 9.5 reb per game last year, and he kwnows flip saunders his former coach so if we can get Mcdyess some how.. the wizards should be good in the front court, i wish we could get Anderson Verajo from Cleveland but thats not happening...

Posted by: hawksbest08 | June 24, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

"Bigotry in any form is unacceptable. But when it comes from someone with a platform like a pro athlete, it must not go unchallenged"

Same rule applies when it comes from a mealy mouthed hypocrite on an internet blog who attacks and defames people for speaking out against and challenging his own narrow, bigoted views.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Next trade, James for Jefferies. The two have similar salary, so can trade one-for-one. Jefferies adds size and the defense. More importantly, he can defend forwards on the wing, such as LeBrone, or the forwards from Orlando. James? Not much useful in a rewarded backcourt. Incentive for Knicks? James only has one year left while Jefferies has two.

Posted by: sagaliba | June 24, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

To those who say we didn't need 3 point shooting because we have it this year in Gil coming back, are you ready to bet your season on it like we did last year? Or have someone to fill the void...DEPTH maybe?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 24, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

On the trade alone who is going to guard Kobe when we reach the finals next year? Miller or the 6'4" Foye or maybe Gil?

Good luck Wizard fans they will out score the below .500 clubs and make the playoffs if everyone stays healthy?

They may even make it out of the first round (depending on who they get matched up with) but there is no way with the current roster they make it to the finals and besides CHEAP ABE, Ernie and Kal isn't that what real fans want from their teams?

I know I do!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

On the trade alone who is going to guard Kobe when we reach the finals next year? Miller or the 6'4" Foye or maybe Gil?

Who on the planet can do it? Be serious.

The roster isn't complete. Let's see who else they bring in.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 24, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

hawksbest08

Where did you raed Gil said he wasn't going to be a ball hog I would really like to read that article!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Pollin's Bullets/Wizards have not been awful for most of the last 30 years because of a lack of spending. They've been awful because of the lousy decisions that he has made, i.e., because of his incompetence as an owner.

Posted by: rbpalmer | June 24, 2009 1:24 PM

What do you call letting Roger Mason go and replacing him with Juan Dixon?

Please don't tell me you really think that was incompetence instead of a saving money move?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

i was just listening to ivan carter on980 on my way back from lunch. he said he believes that this trade puts butler in play for a future trade involving a bigman. he thinks butler is a good "piece to dangle" now since he's healthy, one year removed from all star status, and now the wiz can start miller or start mcguire and bring miller off the bench.i could deal with that depending on the big man caron and our 2nd this yr and next for amare and their 1st ?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

On the trade alone who is going to guard Kobe when we reach the finals next year? Miller or the 6'4" Foye or maybe Gil?

Maybe "The Faceless One" himself, Mr. Stevenson?? Anywho, there's only a handful of guys that can keep great scorers from doing their thing. Sooo, your question is being asked by about 25 other teams in the league...

Posted by: -CN- | June 24, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

p.s. Rumor is that the Pistons will release Fabricio Oberto, would be a great acquisition for Wizards if ever.

Posted by: rickgonz | June 24, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

hawksbest08

that should be "read" my fingers aren't as fast as my brain. I'm old I didn't grow up using a computer.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

A lot of pieces in place. They need a veteran 4/5 to finish things off - player is McDyess. Start him. Foye starts at 2. Jamison, Miller, Blatche, Young/Stevenson off the bench.

That team can compete and has some real upside.

Posted by: BigWesGoingToTakeA | June 24, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

i think cleveland had some trouble in the playoffs because of a lack of size in the backcourt among other things(lights out shooting). It'd be nice to have a few guys around 6'6 in the backcourt. I think NY is our tallest backcourt player. Not that height is everything, but mismatches make the difference sometimes.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Amazing after all these years, the Wiz still don't realize offense doesn't win titles, DEFENSE wins titles. The Wiz if you remember had one of the best offensive teams a few years ago and got bumped in the 2nd round. Doesn't matter what sport, football, baseball, basketball, defense wins championships.
Who will play D on this team? Not Jamison or Zero. Who? Once again the Wiz are spinning their clueless wheels.

Posted by: dovelevine | June 24, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

On the trade alone who is going to guard Kobe when we reach the finals next year? Miller or the 6'4" Foye or maybe Gil?

Certainly not nobody from the draft.

You heard this line: "If you can't beat them, join them." See that is what the NBA is coming down to. Well how about this line: "If you can't stop them, outscore them!"

What made MJordan so good was the intimidation that I can't miss because I sure as hell can't stop him. You saw Drexler get those embarassed BIG EYES in the finals against the Bulls. It puts a pressure on you to not miss shots. That is what the wizards are after as a team.

Posted by: G-Man11 | June 24, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

rbpalmer

If the owner has been incompetent for 30 years isn't it time he sell the team to someone who is? Or maybe I should say, shouldn't real Wizard fans want him to sell the team so we have a chance to win a championship.

I vote he sell the team to Ravens Owner Steve Bisciotti.

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Let this be said and hopefully understood. Roger Mason wasn't let go to save money. He got a very modest contract. We had depth a guard and expected Nick Young to be ready to play more minutes. Who would have known we would basically lose our entire starting backcourt AND backup PG (Daniels literally died every night he suited up. It was brutal.) So yeah in hindsight we shouldve kept them. That's the point of this trade. If Gil and DeShawn can't play this entire season, then Foye, Critt, Miller, Young, and unforunatley Mike James will handle the backcourt. If they dont make the trade and Gil and DeShawn arent able to go then what? Critt, James, Young, (#5 pick if it was a guard) is that really what you want? Seriously.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 24, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Oberto is 34 and has been treated for a heart condition. Don't think teams will be racing to pick him up, but I do like the idea of pursuing McDyess or Anderson Verajao (which may hinge on whether Cleveland makes any deals to take on another big contract). My understanding is Verajao signed a 1-yr. deal last year and is a RFA. I'd like to think that Abe Pollin would give EG the greenlight to use the MLE if Verajao was on the market.

Posted by: wizfan89 | June 24, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

This is on par with KG trade 2 years ago.

Posted by: BigTee13 | June 24, 2009 12:34 PM

crazinessssssssssssssssssssssssss

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I just wanted to say something to people who are spending too much time analysing the Wiz roster as it stands after the trade rather than just looking at the trade on its own merits.

Think back and remember how strange it seemed when Boston traded the #5 for R. Allen. The picture did not become clear until they traded for Garnett. I'm not saying the Wiz will make that kind of a deal, but this is just the first step in their offseason. Let's see what happens.

Posted by: SportzWiz | June 24, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"Now that the "Draft is Dead" according to Steinberg, the only speculation left is who does Washington take in the 2nd rd?" - rickgonz

I'd still stick with Danny Green. Chances are both Foye and Miller will not be with this club after this season. Green can shoot extremely well from outside and at least in college, was an outstanding defender at the wing.

Posted by: segastyle | June 24, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Our fans suck, health will give us 50+, pessimism will give us a long season. EJ is gone people, Etan, Opec, all gone. Rejoice, we can shoot 3's again!

Posted by: BurgwithaU | June 24, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

i can dig the be patient angle, but let's not compare mike miller the player to ray allen the player. he's got more all star nods then foye and miller. we have to make another move IMO unless this move was as much about money as it was about catering to jamison and his anti-youth movement.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

why danny green, why not the best available 4?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure the rest of the league is just quaking in their boots cause the Wiz landed the mighty Mr Miller and Foye. Whereas the Spurs have simply catipulted themselves back to the top of the rung with the same type of deal only better.

That's why the Spurs are great every year and the Wiz are well the Wiz.

Posted by: dovelevine | June 24, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

"Todd" is a white name?

I thought he was named after Todd Fitzgerald Day

...oh wait, that guy's definitely Irish...

Posted by: mabkhar | June 24, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

I'm surprised no one has analyzed the trade this way:

1. It's the #5 for Foye, straight-up. Foye has 3 years of experience and averaged 16 ppg last year. He's a sure thing and getting better. Who among the potential #5s is a sure thing? Foye becomes your starting 2 guard, with Deshawn and his problematic back now coming off the bench for defense. That also lets Caron play his natural SF/3 position.

2. Then it's Miller for Etan, Pesh and Darius. We get the 3-point shooter we've been missing and get Etan's contract off the books -- and Miller's expiring too. The big loss here is Songalia, because now we're thin on the front court. So now we've got to get a good PF/4 -- maybe one of the guards (Young? Doesn't Foye make Nick the odd man odd, since you really can't trade/get value for Deshawn coming off back surgery, maybe tossing in Mike James's contract) gets traded for a 4? Or we get a 4 in free agency?

It's not the end and it doesn't make you a champ. But it does get you to the second round if Gil is healthy, and it sets you up for the next move that I hope Ernie's working on.

Posted by: OutsideTheLaw | June 24, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

They have no tolerance for other's beliefs or ideas

Posted by: boomer44 | June 24, 2009 12:22 PM


Absolutely amazing coming from a Right winger ! You have got to be kidding me !

Posted by: slipperyrichard | June 24, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Guys, Don't worry about Barno. He's a hypocritical d0uche. In his mind too Gary Williams and Greivis Vasquez are the 2 best parts of UMD basketball ever.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | June 24, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Ohh and Barno,

Do me a favor and go play in traffic.

Posted by: slipperyrichard | June 24, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Sorry McPoop,

I just get sick and tired of Barno's endless BS

Posted by: slipperyrichard | June 24, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

So we all wanted a big bang and got a bit less than that. Stop whining and start believing that EG got the best deal available.

What? You don't think this Draft sucks? Minnesota wants to shoot the works to get Rubio because he is the only player south of the Blakeman who is going to help.

What? You loved what we got with Mitch Richmond at age 32 and wanted us to take our chances with Ray Allen at 34?

Does anyone here truly believe that we have not massively upgraded our three-point shooting, and insured that we will never again have to see Mike James starting at point guard, or Juan Dixon (2009 edition) trying to move the ball around with a game on the line?

Randy Foye and Mike Miller will contribute. Period.

Now let's see about some muscle and beef.

C'mon Ernie... Bring on the Birdman. Swing the Polish Hammer. Dazzle us with ZaZa. See if 'Sheed has some gas left in his tank (older big men are way more productive than older small players).

We have no choice but to roll the dice and hope that Gil 2009-10 is on a par with Gil 2006-2007 but if he is not, at least we will not be, uh, witnesses to another debacle like last year.

If the wheels stay on the Wizards' cart they'll roll a bit.

Posted by: khrabb | June 24, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

OutsideTheLaw
I agree.
The Only way this becomes a bad deal is if the #5 becomes rookie of the year.
Chances=slim.
Foye & Miller contributing right now?
Chances=very good.
Yes, we need help inside.
Maybe Javale has shown Flip & Ernie some vast improvement this summer.
If not then another move looms.

Posted by: VBFan | June 24, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Let this be said and hopefully understood. Roger Mason wasn't let go to save money. We had depth a guard and expected Nick Young to be ready to play more minutes.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | June 24, 2009 1:44 PM

Are you kidding? They signed Juan Dixon to replace Roger Mason's spot on the roster? So, why would they do that?

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

"why danny green, why not the best available 4?" - lilhollywood10

Because unless you think any of the best available 4s at the 32nd pick are going to be better than Jamison, Blatche, McGee or even McGuire at the 4, now or in the future, what's the point? Just to add a body at that spot?

We still have some solid trade assets: Young, a young, cheap and dynamic scorer, James $6.8 mil expiring contract, Miller and Foye in a few months, and Haywood, a legitimate starter at center on an affordable contract and in his last year.

We could get a backup 4 or 5 in a trade who's half decent as a backup, or we could even go for a better center than Haywood, and move him. Remember, if he's looking for 8-10 mil a year next season, are we really going to want to pay a 30 year old, average at best on his good days, center?

Camby would be an awesome addition for this upcoming season. And we could probably land him without giving up Haywood. He would be gone after this season too.

J. O'Neal would be a great addition as a defensive center, but at $21 mil, I don't think we have enough contracts to make an offer for him without including one of our big 3.

Posted by: segastyle | June 24, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

khrabb, well said. Ernie's been listening to offers for weeks now; he's got a sense of the market for the 5th pick in a weak draft. It really boils down to Miller/Foye for No. 5. I believe the Wiz got the better of the deal. No, it's not a home run, but unless you're trading with Chris Wallace or Elgin Baylor, those are hard to come by.

Our talent base is better, and our second unit should be a lot more productive. IF the Wiz get normal health, and Gil isn't a shell of his former self, I can see (although I wouldn't predict) 50 wins.

Posted by: keithward64 | June 24, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Ernie,

Listen to khrabb:

Give the 2nd pick away for ca$h and sign a couple of big men, one at the MLE and one at the NBA minimum and go over the luxury cap!

Posted by: bulletsfan78 | June 24, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Finally we make a move to improve. It was painful to watch Orlando add Lewis, Cleveland add Mo Williams, Boston add Garnett, Miami add Beasley, Chalmers, Moon and O'neal, The Bulls add Rose, Phili add Brand (another bad luck deal), and so on while we did NOTHING to improve except place our Faith and Money in Gilbert. You knew we were going to fall, even with a healthy team.

This is the year. All Young Bloods on Deck - All Veterans on Deck - and everyone as hungry as the Wolf (contract year for Foye and Miller and all players bust out when contract time comes).

Posted by: liveride | June 24, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Barno, maybe you'll get an apology when you apologize to the countless number of people on these blogs whom you've ridiculed and criticized in the past because -- gasp! -- they don't share your right-wing beliefs. Do you have to agree with what Etan writes? No. But my goodness, you also don't need to attack the man's character and moral center simply because his ideology is in stark contrast to yours. But that's been your MO, so I guess it's not surprising. Feel free to write and say what you want. That's your prerogative. But do it smartly without resulting to insults.

And boomer, your comment is way off base. Completely. Not much more to say about that.

As for this trade, I'm not completely sold on it. The Wizards dumped a couple of players and an incredibly bad contract to get a 3-point shooter and a good combo guard. I think it could work out well for the Wizards, but I didn't have the same excited reaction to this trade as I did to the ones involving Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler, both of which were excellent. I would have to think another move is in the works because the Wizards need depth at the 4/5.

Posted by: CDon | June 24, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

I agree with kal about millers role, he should do a very good job helping to stabilize the second unit he is the definition of a team player and although his d is less than stellar his length and general awareness helps mitigate it to some degree I'm anxious to see what foye's got, I haven't really seen him play since he came into the league
Right now I'd be pushing hard to try and land bosh with a combo of jamison and a guard or two

Posted by: bford1kb | June 24, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Todd Bridges
-different strokes

Posted by: buster_c | June 24, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

"I'd be pushing hard to try and land bosh with a combo of jamison and a guard or two"

The problem is that such an offer won't come anywhere near getting Bosh. Not close; not in the same zip code.

Posted by: keithward64 | June 24, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

who's danny green better than sega? I don't know if any rookie outside of blake woulda took someone's job right away bigman or guard (part of the thinking behind this abysmal trade).

i just wanna know why not draft the best available big man vs. another combo 2-3 to split time with miller, caron and even mcguire nto to mention jamison can a probably will play some 3 situationally. we just got rid of 3 frontcourt players all of whom played in games for us last year when we struggled with quality depth. I'm just saying we're definitely not as deep up front as we once might've been

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

todd bridges= that white girl

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Foye looks promising. He's only been in the league 3 years, and he just gets better, year after year.

Foye 09 Stats:
16.3 ppg, 4.3 apg, 3.1 rpg, 1 spg, .407 fg%, .846 ft%, .360 3pt%

To the guy who said Crittendon is is his equivalent, and could start over him, here's Crittendon's numbers last year:

Crittendon 09 Stats:
5 ppg, 2.4 apg, 2.6 rpg, .6 spg, .460 fg%, .576 ft%, .133 3pt%.

Wanting Crittendon to be on par with Foye doesn't make that so. I think Crittendon has some upside potential, but I think Foye has even more upside potential.

I feel much more confident having Foye as security against Gil's leg, than the mystery wheel that is Crittendon. Foye is a PROVEN commodity. Crittendon is still a big question mark.

Posted by: Independent11 | June 24, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

etan song and pech is the kind of depth you don't want to have, song is by far the best of the three and he can really only be effective next to a stud defensive big

Posted by: bford1kb | June 24, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

we will be burned by foye

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

at least someone will i hear he's about to have a breakout

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

I'm in the camp that loves the trade, and I'm sure there's more to come -- maybe not a trade but at least a free agent acquisition. Gooden would be a good'n, and so would the Birdman. And McDyess gives us help at the 4 and the 5.

I've seen Miller beat the Wizards single-handedly and I'm excited about seeing him and Foye in Sanders' wide-open transition game. We're building a different team, see? You guys who think we're going to be running half-court Princeton offensive sets are living in the past. It's a whole new ball game.

We're going to have a good young team with veteran anchors, and we're going to run and have some fun winning the East. Watch out, LeBron!

Posted by: zinger1 | June 24, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

"Give the 2nd pick away for ca$h and sign a couple of big men, one at the MLE and one at the NBA minimum and go over the luxury cap!"


This move already put us OVER the LUXURY CAP.

Posted by: beas13 | June 24, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

people keep saying we are not deep because we got rid of our front court players. But listen to what your blowing. Pech plays like a 2 and doesn't bang. Darius is a 4 that was forced to play center last year. Mcgee/Blatche can take his minutes easily at the four. Etan was too small to play center and was getting paid mad money for nothing. We were always weak in the front court, even with these guys out there. People are nuts.

Posted by: BurgwithaU | June 24, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Grunfeld is done.

The team needs to acquire depth at PF so another trade may be in the offing after the draft.

Other than the #5 pick in a down year, the Wizards didn't give up anything of value to the Wolves.

Pecherov was a bust. Songaila is 31 and looks 35 on the court. Thomas was simply a salary dump.

If Foye comes in and is able to work with Arenas and provide better backcourt depth, the trade for the Wizards may have been worth it without even considering what Miller brings to the table.

That said, Miller will bring back that Roger Mason clutch shooting the team missed once he moved on to SA.

Posted by: leopard09 | June 24, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

now everyone loves blatche. two days ago it's all about him being lazy,unfocused,unathletic etc. it was songalia that would put blatche and his nutzo a$$ on the bench, then come in and drop 10 pts and battle with the opposing teams big. his hustle and tenacity put the young guys to shame some nights. i hope the lightbulb comes on this season for blatche.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

The Wiz don't need Foye and Miller to be awe-inspiring talents. They already have three all-stars. At a minimum, Foye and Miller need to be solid support players, which they are capable of being.

The Wiz not only have bolstered their backcourt depth, but in Miller also their depth at SF. Even when Gil was healthy the Wiz were stressed to get wins when Caron was injured, now they have a scoring backup (who can also pass, rebound, etc) to fill in that they did not have before.

I am sure EG was thinking of this when he made the trade.

Posted by: cannontl | June 24, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

We were always weak in the front court, even with these guys out there. People are nuts.

Posted by: BurgwithaU | June 24, 2009 3:00 PM

so my friend, would you say the front court is stronger or weaker? and if we are weaker how can we remedy it? take a chance on a kid in the second round or take a chance that we can make a trade happen.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

leopard09,
I agree with you completely. Miller actually is better than Mason at clutch shooting. He more than fills the void Mason left behind.

And Foye is better than any shooting guard we had before. He's young, and he gets better, year after year.

I'd rather take some talented, proven commodities out there than gamble on another work in progress that may or may not pan out at the #5 pick.

As long as Ernie can make one more move -- for a solid improvement at the power forward / Center position, then I think he'll have pulled off another miracle.

He'll have kept the big three together, added significant talent (Foye and Miller and hopefully a big guy down low), and we'll have both Gil and Haywood back next year.

I think they'll be as deep as they've been in a very long time.

Posted by: Independent11 | June 24, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Next year is going to be a dress rehearsal anyway, so props to Ernie for getting rid of Etan's contract and getting some cap flexibility in 2010/11. Of course if Rubio somehow falls to #5, then this trade sucks. I don't see that happening though.

Posted by: djnnnou | June 24, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Finally we make a move to improve. It was painful to watch Orlando add Lewis, Cleveland add Mo Williams, Boston add Garnett, Miami add Beasley, Chalmers, Moon and O'neal, The Bulls add Rose, Phili add Brand (another bad luck deal), and so on while we did NOTHING to improve except place our Faith and Money in Gilbert. You knew we were going to fall, even with a healthy team.

This is the year. All Young Bloods on Deck - All Veterans on Deck - and everyone as hungry as the Wolf (contract year for Foye and Miller and all players bust out when contract time comes).

Posted by: liveride | June 24, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

- would you say the front court is stronger or weaker? -

With Haywood back, I'd have to believe stronger than last year. Songalias is the only real subtraction, since Etan and Pech didn't contribute last year.

We were pathetically weak last year in the front court. With Haywood back, we are weak.

Posted by: Independent11 | June 24, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

with a new coaching staff, one would think that flip could try to mold the players into roles that fit his offense. i think evans with the 5 pick could've been put in the position to give you "solid support"

By the way, since when does a team coming off of 19 wins that hasn't been out of the 2nd playoff rd in my lifetime have the luxury of saying we've got 3 guys who have been all stars (0 last year) so we don't need to improve any other positions.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | June 24, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Randy Foye has improved every year in the league, and Mike Miller got almost 40% less shots last year, while still averaging a 48% shooting percentage. With them we likely get a min of 26ppg up to 35ppg giving them 32 minutes each and allowing our stars to limit their minutes to the same.

Pech sucked, but Darius was good. Without him, we can still get our 3 prize young bloods 18 minutes a game (Blatche, McGee, Young). We still need to get rid of jack-it-up James and where's-my-game Stevenson. Count the trio in for 30ppg and we should be at 110ppg. Play even Decent Defense and we should keep others to 104~106ppg.

If you look at the roster with Foye and Miller you'll see we get the 3-point specialist we needed, as well as a big upgrade on Crittenton. It's key that we have Haywood in the middle, then Blatche and McGee playing Big Defense too.

Posted by: liveride | June 24, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

I will respond to the many baseless accusations against me in one post, since there appears to be too many and not enough time to get to them one by one.

First and foremost, those including Kalo_rama who continue to, amazingly, claim without any justification, that I am for the "good ole boy" system and hate anyone who speaks out about racial injustice, are simply being foolish to make such absurd assumptions.

As I said before, I am appalled by bigotry in any form, white/black/purple/yellow it doesn't matter--it's all the same.

I was outraged by what many Americans of all different backgrounds said about Latinos during the immigration debates of 2006/2007.

I was outraged when Trent Lott said we wouldn't have been having all these problems all these years if the country had followed the lead of (segregationist) Strom Thurmond.

And I am equally incensed when a pro athlete abuses his platform to spread his hatred towards others to young children. Many of his comments are simply impossible to defend.

Just because some people refer to cops as "pigs" does not mean a pro athlete with a platform should be able to get away with saying it without being held accountable.

Just because some people call blacks who don't fall in line "Uncle Toms" and "Sellouts" and "Benedict Arnolds" does not make it okay to call people these things.

And it's simply unacceptable to tell black children that "Republicans don't like you."

These are degrading, demeaning, and yes--racist--comments. They imply that if you are black you have to think a certain way. That's racism folks, whether you want to believe it or not.

If a white athlete were to go around telling white kids that "them Democrats don't like white people" what do you think would happen? He'd be ostracized, and rightfully so. Racism has no place in our society, and Etan Thomas should not be held to a different standard than anyone else.

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

For those saying that it was a cost cutting move, do you realize that it puts us into luxury tax territory? Also, why would we want to use the MLE when it would basically cost us double, b/c we are over the luxury tax? We will(hopefully) be able to swing a servicable big man from our remaining bargaining chips(James' expiring, NY, JC...). I understand the frustration that we didn't "swing for the fences", but this is a pretty shrewd move that still leaves us lots of options in the future.

Also, this is a post about the Wizards recent trade, not a political flame war. You're entitled to whatever political opinion you have, but c'mon, no one wants to read that on a sports blog, go somewhere else for that kind of discussion.

Posted by: OffseasonChamps | June 24, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Bulls@*t still abounds.

"I was outraged by . . . blah blah blah."

And let me guess . . . some of your best friends are Black, right? You're a walking typing stereotype.

"Just because some people refer to cops as "pigs" does not mean a pro athlete with a platform should be able to get away with saying it without being held accountable."

The very fact that you think he should be held "accountable" for saying something you don't like simply confirms what everyone has said about you. It's not a crime to call a cop a pig. It's not outside the bounds of modern day social convention. As insults go, it's not even particularly harsh. And it sure as hell is not racist. So what, exactly, should Thomas be held "accountable" for other than offending your privileged sensibilities? How should Thomas be punished for this terrible affront?

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

"And it's simply unacceptable to tell black children that "Republicans don't like you." "

Only if you're a Republican who thinks free speech is a privilege to be granted at your sufferance, rather than an inalienable right that can and should not be abridged. (That would be you.) To the parents, families, and friends of the millions of Black youth who have suffered under the policies of Republican administrations who saw them only as potential criminals or political bargaining chips, it's well within bounds.

"These are degrading, demeaning, and yes--racist--comments. They imply that if you are black you have to think a certain way."

How does one person referring to police as pigs imply that everyone should think that way? How does one person believing that the Republican party has a specific political agenda that is antagonistic (if not outright hostile) towards Blacks imply that everyone should think that way (and I assure you that Thomas is far from the only person who thinks that and by no means are all of the people who agree with him Black). As usual, you take one isolated instance and attempt to build a wall using your own biases, ignorance, and intolerance as the mortar.

"Etan Thomas should not be held to a different standard than anyone else."

And, contrary to what you so obviously think, neither should you. So every time you come in here spewing your ignorance, hate, and stupidity, be fully prepared to get called on it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

"Just because some people call blacks who don't fall in line "Uncle T#ms" and "Sellouts" and "Benedict Arnolds" does not make it okay to call people these things."

Define "okay." Actually, don't bother. We already know your definition of okay--it's anything you don't like. And, again, putting aside the glaringly obvious fact that you've taken all of Thomas's words out of context and attempted to distort them through the prism of your own towering bias, you're still wrong.

Are those terms inflammatory and insulting? Of course they are. They're meant to be. Does that, in and of themselves make them "despicable" or "racist." Nope. You will, of course, spin some self-justifying line of nonsense that attempts to say it is. To which I ask this simple question: If using intentionally insulting and inflammatory language to frame a discussion on the topic of race automatically makes Thomas a "despicable racist" then wouldn't the fact that you've done the exact same thing in response make you one too? (Don't bother answering; it's rhetorical.)

Posted by: kalo_rama | June 24, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Hey Barno, ever hear of Richard Nixon's Southern Strategy? Or Ronald Reagan's 1980 campaign kickoff in Philadelphia, Mississippi where 3 civil rights workers had been murdered in 1964; Reagan advocated for States Rights in his speech.
Republicans since Nixon have cynically tied their political fortunes to old notions of bigotry and racism.
The politics of divisiveness and hate; perhaps you've moved on, maybe you're just clueless but there are valid reasons that blacks might believe that Republicans don't like them.

Posted by: midlevex | June 24, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

'If Gil and DeShawn can't play this entire season, then Foye, Critt, Miller, Young, and unforunatley Mike James will handle the backcourt. If they dont make the trade and Gil and DeShawn arent able to go then what? Critt, James, Young, (#5 pick if it was a guard) is that really what you want? Seriously.'

You are suggesting that it is a least better to have SOMEONE competent playing back there in case Gil is injured again. The point is to win championships, not just to have someone better than Critt, James and Young back there. The question is: are Miller and Foye the type of players that can push us into contention? The answer is no.

'I'm sure the rest of the league is just quaking in their boots cause the Wiz landed the mighty Mr Miller and Foye. Whereas the Spurs have simply catipulted themselves back to the top of the rung with the same type of deal only better.
That's why the Spurs are great every year and the Wiz are well the Wiz.'

Exactly. The Spurs, Celtics and Lakers rearm with top-tier talent. We trade mediocre for mediocre.

'It's the #5 for Foye, straight-up. Foye has 3 years of experience and averaged 16 ppg last year. He's a sure thing and getting better. Who among the potential #5s is a sure thing? Foye becomes your starting 2 guard, with Deshawn and his problematic back now coming off the bench for defense.'

Surely... mediocre. The #5, while no sure, middle-of-the-road player, had the potential to be something great, and we whiffed, big time. This may very well turn out like passing on Karl Malone and Joe Dumars for... Kenny Green.

'Finally we make a move to improve. It was painful to watch Orlando add Lewis, Cleveland add Mo Williams, Boston add Garnett, Miami add Beasley, Chalmers, Moon and O'neal, The Bulls add Rose, Phili add Brand (another bad luck deal), and so on while we did NOTHING to improve except place our Faith and Money in Gilbert. You knew we were going to fall, even with a healthy team.'

Surely you are not comparing getting Foye and Miller to landing Garnett, Rose, Brand, Beasley, Chalmers, O'Neal, Lewis, etc? If that is Grunfeld's idea of 'better', we're sunk.

We have been lousy so long that people in here are happy just to achieve competence. Praise for the trade seems to be 'hey, the guys we got aren't bad, and they fill a hole', rather than, 'he's the type of player that will make us contend'. Contending is the goal folks. Beating, Kobe, Lebron, Howard and the big boys is what we're gunning for. How giving up a potential gamer at #5 for a coupla mediocre known quantities will help us achieve this is beyond me. Will someone who likes this trade please give me some hope by telling us how this moves us closer to a championship rather than just plug holes on a sinking ship? I hear a lot how it makes us better (no big feat after 19 wins), but no one seems to suggest how it could be part of a master plan that makes us contend.

Posted by: SammyT1 | June 24, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

midlevex,

You're pointing to politics from 30-40 years ago and claiming that's reason enough to get away with saying Republicans don't like black people? Honestly, if you're going to try to play that game, let's talk about how the Democratic Party was always the key supporter of slavery, secession, and segregation.

And Ronald Reagan didn't have a racist bone in his body. Shame on you for suggesting otherwise.

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Barno, I don't know where you're getting your facts from. But I do find it interesting that you're laying into someone for pointing to politics from 30-40 years ago, then you go ahead and do the same with that ridiculous comment about the Democratic Party being the key supporter of slavery, secessions and segregation. That's like saying the Republican Party is the party of Lincoln and desegregation, when, in fact, the Republican party of the late 1860s would align itself more readily with today's Democratic party. You're grasping at straws now.

Also, how about the Republican National Committee making Michael Steele its chairman? It always seemed to me that by choosing Steele, the Republicans were pandering to a minority demographic. A minority candidate is elected president, so the Republicans follow suit by naming Steele the chairman of the RNC. Odd timing and odd decision, considering Steele was in no way qualified for that position.

Posted by: CDon | June 24, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Barno, hang in there, it's tough to speak up against the current majority in this counry without receiving a vicious backlash. They have no tolerance for other's beliefs or ideas. Disgusting, but it comes from our current leader...Barack Hussein Obama.

Posted by: boomer44 | June 24, 2009 12:22 PM

dude,..lets talk about basketball. it was a trade good enough to understand that randy foye in the right system can drop buckets he dropped more than the starting 2 gaurd this year 16ppg..what if agent zero goes down? foye can score at will.

the projected starting lineup-
1 arenas
2 foye
3 butler
4 jamison
5 haywood

and i dont even think the wizards are done making moves..

Posted by: mrhney03 | June 24, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

LMAO!!! MIKE LOOK AT WHAT YOUR BLOGS HAVE STARTED!@ i enjoy reading them it keeps me company when im bored at work doin boring stuff..keep it up man !!

Posted by: mrhney03 | June 24, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

Take a chill on Etan, Barno. I haven't read all of those articles, but the one you said he "bashes our troops"... nope, no bashing in the article. Bashing the war, yes. The troops, no. If you disagree with the man, ok, but put your agenda on the table.

Posted by: Gregariousterp | June 24, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Barno
You were talking about the Republican soul, Democrats of course have their own long unsavory history of racism as does much of American history.
That however does not excuse the Republicans for adopting a strategy of pandering to racist remnants in the deep south and elsewhere, starting in the sixties and seventies to attain power.
As for Ronald Reagan not having a racist bone in his body; perhaps you have another explanation why he chose to go to Philadpelphia, Mississippi and make a speech about states rights to initiate his candidacy in 1980?
If he wasn't a racist he was, as I tend to believe, an empty suit; a shill and a dupe for racists.
If you don't understand any of this than I suspect you are just clueless.


Posted by: midlevex | June 24, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Mike, keep up the good work.

Will you people please take all that racist crap elsewhere.

I think Abe is gonna pull a blockbuster sometime in the next month or so. His time is running out and he wants to go down swinging. Keep your eyes open. Ernie ain't done yet.

Posted by: VBFan | June 24, 2009 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Barno, I don't know where you're getting your facts from. But I do find it interesting that you're laying into someone for pointing to politics from 30-40 years ago, then you go ahead and do the same with that ridiculous comment about the Democratic Party being the key supporter of slavery, secessions and segregation. That's like saying the Republican

Posted by: CDon | June 24, 2009 5:24 PM

Um, did you somehow miss the part when I said "IF YOU'RE GOING TO PLAY THE GAME OF POINTING TO POLITICS FROM 30-40 YEARS AGO TWO CAN PLAY THAT GAME"???

Read much?

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 11:31 PM | Report abuse

Cut out all the political crap in here!

I personally don't like Etan's politics and some of his more radical commentary, but this is a Wizards/basketball blog. I think it's more important for the team that we dumped his bad contract.

Apparently, we tried to give them DS instead of Songalia. Had we gotten away with that I think it would have been a grandslam trade for us. Now, my opinion is it's a solid double. We could use Songalia's banging presence on the inside. This roster as currently constructed is going to get killed on the defensive boards!

Posted by: rphilli721 | June 24, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

Party is the party of Lincoln and desegregation, when, in fact, the Republican party of the late 1860s would align itself more readily with today's Democratic party. You're grasping at straws now.

Also, how about the Republican National Committee making Michael Steele its chairman? It always seemed to me that by choosing Steele, the Republicans were pandering to a minority demographic. A minority candidate is elected president, so the Republicans follow suit by naming Steele the chairman of the RNC. Odd timing and odd decision, considering Steele was in no way qualified for that position.

Posted by: CDon | June 24, 2009 5:24 PM

CDON, Michael Steele was not "named" chairman of the RNC you imbecile. There was no odd "decision" you moron. He won an "election" in which he was up against several other candidates. And he only won after 6 tumultuous rounds of voting. But I'm not sure why I'm attempting to explain this to someone who has repeatedly demonstrated a lack of basic comprehension of how our political system works.

And instead of praising the election of our first black RNC chair, CDON despicably claims the move was done because of the color of his skin. Outrageous.

CDON, you really need to do yourself a favor before you embarrass yourself further and get an education, buddy.

Posted by: Barno1 | June 24, 2009 11:40 PM | Report abuse

First off - Barno, get lost if all you're going to do is post that crap. The discussion here is for talking about the trade and the Wizards, not regurgitating Etan Thomas' (now a FORMER Wizard) political bs.

As for the trade itself and those of you being critical of it, let's see what happens this season before you jump to conclusions one way or the other. All I will say is this - those of you bashing the trade let me ask you some questions:

1. Are you or have you been an NBA GM?
2. Are you smarter than Ernie Grunfeld and believe you would know what you're doing moreso than him?
3. Are you telling me that posed with the same trade offer from the Wolves you wouldn't trade the 5th pick (in a WEAK draft mind you), Etan Thomas who hasn't done crap, Pechy who hasn't shown anything, and DSong who's expendable for two proven backcourt players who provide cap room and solid bench depth? How can you automatically call this a bad trade in freakin JUNE?

Yeah I'm sure Ernie could have gotten KG, Lebron, DHoward, etc. for the 5th pick, big contracts and garbage production that he got two very solid players for. Pull your heads out of your a**es and let's see what happens once the season starts. How can you be critical of at the very least solid bench depth, great 3-point shooters and tons of scoring potential?

Plus word is the Wizards aren't done trading and I bet they'll be looking for a quality big man when they do.

Posted by: Jeffthecat | June 26, 2009 1:53 AM | Report abuse

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