Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: MrMichaelLee and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Redskins and Sports  |  RSS

Oberto Agrees To Join Wizards

I just hung up the phone with Fabricio Oberto's agent, Herb Rudoy, who informed me that his client has agreed to sign with the Washington Wizards. I spoke with Rudoy earlier today and he told me that Oberto was "very interested" and would make a decision by early next week, but Oberto apparently only needed a few more hours. He informed Wizards President of Basketball Operations Ernie Grunfeld of his intentions a few moments ago.

Oberto called Rudoy to tell him that he was going to join the Wizards. Oberto provides a veteran big man who can play either power forward for center. I asked Rudoy what pushed Oberto toward the Wizards and he said Oberto "thinks they have a chance to have a terrific team. He analyzed the teams that were interested in him and he felt that in Washington, one, he had a good chance to play, two, they have a new, experienced coach and they have terrific players, which is what he was used to in San Antonio. He figured it out. He thinks it is a great opportunity for him to continue winning."

Oberto chose the Wizards over Phoenix, Oklahoma City, Sacramento and the Lakers. He was hopeful for a return to San Antonio, where he spent his first four seasons, but the Spurs signed veteran center Theo Ratliff on Thursday.

By Michael Lee  |  July 23, 2009; 5:58 PM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Closing In On Oberto
Next: Deepest Team This Decade?

Comments

Final piece for your 2009 Wizards... at least until the trade deadline... nice pickup with championship experience.

Posted by: tony325 | July 23, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

Another sound, but unspectacular move. What remains to be seen if Ernie can engineer a deal to thin the glut of guards a bit while getting another useful peice.

Any word on Stephenson's recovery? Will he be ready for camp? And is James working out in DC?
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 23, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Good news. An unflashing, non-headline making move, but probably the best possible move right now with the options that are still available.

The move definitely addresses a need and improves the team. This is the deepest roster that the Wizards have had in a while.

Posted by: JPRS | July 23, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

Maryland football will finish with a 2-10 record.

Maryland basketball will finish with a 15-16 record

No NCAA bid

No NIT bid

Carolina Blue - Carolina WHITE - Go Tar Heels - Let's go Tar Heels !

Posted by: hclark1 | July 23, 2009 6:28 PM | Report abuse

In effect, Ernie's selling of the second round pick worked out to trading the pick for 2.5m and Oberto.

On a team that already had two young bigs in need of experience, it's not a bad move. This team needed a veteran big up front that's a good lockerroom guy like Songaila was.

Oberto's a bigger stronger guy then Songaila, but has a similar veteran savvy game. I'd say he'll be an upgrade over Darius overall, at a cheaper price.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 23, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

It was a good sound move, veteran big man with experience with a winning organization. And I was glad to hear that McGee was added to the U.S. team in place of Griffin, out with a shoulder injury. It should be a great experience for him. It was probably his play the Vegas summer league that got him that invite too....Props to him for consistent hard work!!!!!

Posted by: jimmyskeets | July 23, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

He thought the Wizards would be a terrific team? He picked the Wiz over the Lakers? He picked the team he thought he could contribute to and prolly paid him the most money. So much for trying to land with a hyped contender.

Posted by: thecomedian2 | July 23, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Us signing Oberto is not flashy by any means and it is far from sexy but Oberto coming to Washington is a better pickup than Ron Artest going to Lakers. Artest bigger name worse fit Oberto smaller name better fit.

Posted by: WaynefromBowie | July 23, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

"The reason Shelden Williams is available is because he's a bust. The "48 min per" stat is pretty useless in general, but it's esp. useless when applied to a player who, despite being a "former top 5 draft pick" and despite having played for three of the worst teams in the NBA (3 teams in his first 3 years is also not a good sign) has a career average of about 14 mpg played."

-kal_orama

So what other equalizer do you propose to compare players by, most omniscient Kal? KI usually agree with you but saying that the 48 min per stat is useless is just dumb. Its not like I was talking about a guy who played 5mpg and then multiplying his stats by 15+, thereby really inflating his stats and rendering (that would be useless, for example).

Top 5 picks are supposed to develop into the 1st-2nd option on a team...that's why he's considered a bust. All we were looking for is rebounding and muscle--i.e. a one dimensional player. Pretty sure most scouts can grasp the fact that the ONLY thing "The Landlord" brings is rebounding and some D...maybe that's why he's unemployed?

Guess it doesn't matter now that we have Fabricio.

Posted by: dfresh58 | July 23, 2009 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Didn't some brilliant dude here say that EG was a genius because he knew Rubio wasn't going to be at the 5, and secondly, even if he was, that he wasn't going to leave his Spanish team?

I guess not after all....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4348398

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 23, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

That was excellent execution of proper grammar, I must say!

Posted by: dfresh58 | July 23, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

I was referring to my own initial post, fyi

Posted by: dfresh58 | July 23, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Dude has a heart condition..

Back in June of 2009, Oberto had surgery in order to fix "the electrical system" of his heart. While he has rehabbed and the doctors have said he can return to exercise, it is unknown as to what will happen in the future.

What the Wizards know and don't know are unknown right now, but more info will come out soon.

There is a chance that if something happens regarding his heart Oberto will just retire,


Well, at least he's a hottie. He'll be nice to look at while he's sitting on the bench.

Posted by: lk11 | July 23, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Great pickup. Oberto was my first choice as soon as he was waived by Detroit. As a 10-15mpg veteran presence he's perfect for this team. Basically a bigger (and cheaper) Songaila. Nice one, Ernie.

As for other potential moves, I think the team would like to swap DeBrick Stevenson for an expiring contract so that it'll be easier for them to re-sign everybody next summer. Probably unlikely in the short-term, though.

Once the season starts I'm sure that Ernie will be on the lookout for teams that end up needing guard help and hopefully he can package Stevenson+James+Crittenton for a large expiring contract.

But I don't think he has to rush to make another trade right now. Even after signing Oberto they still got another roster spot open if they feel they need more depth somewhere.

Even if no other moves are made, I really excited about this team. I think 50 wins and the second round is about what we can expect, with the possibility for more depending on what Gilbert does. Go Wiz!

Posted by: LyricalRico | July 23, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse

So Ernie swapped Pech,Darius, Etan, our #5 & #32 draft pick for Miller, Foye & Oberto.
I like it.
Sorry to see Darius go but overall I'd give the moves so far an A+.
Can't wait til the season starts.
"IF" health is with the Wizzies we could have a very successful year.
I think there will be a guard or 2 moved off this roster and another vet added.
Mike how bout some info on Stevenson's back?

Posted by: VBFan | July 23, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

hmm, Oberto's own analysis of his situation and the Wizards just doesn't match with the negative bloggers' opinion of the Wizards.

And Ernie, by signing so early in the summer, you didn't let the worry warts fret a while longer about being guard heavy and big man light (as if we were seeking a starting C rather than the strong reserve that we actually needed, and got).

Oberto will be happy with his necessary role, and that fits perfectly in this great plan for the Wizards' strongest team in years (I'll be the first to agree that strongest team doesn't necessarily guarantee wins, as last year proved, but Ernie has done well).

DeShawn is going to win a new award this season, "best NBA performance for a player most disrespected and/or forgotten by his own team's fans". When he comes back healthy, he is going to add lock down defense under the new coaching, with occasionally brilliant flashes of offensive help once the team balance is restored on the court with veterans.

Sorry, I shouldn't get so worked up until October...

Posted by: ragtop4spd | July 23, 2009 7:13 PM | Report abuse

DC_MANN,

Go somewhere else if all you want to do is continuously gripe about the Wiz and never have anything positive to say. It's annoying. You and "Bulletsfan" need to go take your medication. And, for your small cranium, he simply stated he is not playing for his Spanish team, which does not mean he will be playing for the T'Wolves this season. He is already enough of a headache that I'm sure the T'Wolves GM, whatever his name is, is probably regretting the pick.

dfresh,

I am with Kal on this one. The PER is one of the dumbest stats in basketball bc it implies that a player *can* do in 48 mins whatever the multiple suggests. It does not indicate what the competition is i.e. second team players and it does not consider things like conditioning. Blatche, for example, can put up some eye popping numbers at times, but his play suffers the longer he is in the game. Also, perhaps most importantly, it does not explain why the player does not get more mins in the first place. I'm sure McGee had some nice PER's last year, but it would not show his complete lack of floor sense or knowledge. It's a smoke and mirrors stat to say the least and is probably used by lesser player's agents to no avail...lol.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 23, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

That sets the team – a darn good one at that.

One of the few open issues is who starts in the backcourt. Why doesn’t the Insider run a poll on who should start/play with Arenas?

Of course, the answer depends on what the Wiz think they need in the 2nd guard, given Arenas’ skills.

For example, Miller and Young don’t seem to be able to effectively cover either a quality point guard or the best scoring guard on the other team. Hence, given Arenas defensive weaknesses, these two don’t seem to match up well with him in the Wiz starting backcourt.

Stevenson is a good fit for Arenas, but his skill set is not adequate for a team with high aspirations.

Based on past performance, it looks like Foye can guard the opposing point guard or the best scoring guard. And he’s already better all-around player than Stevenson and he has more room to improve. Arenas and Foye are both combo guards so they ought to be able to play together.

On the flip side, I don’t see Mike James as an integral part of the team going forward given his age and abilities.

Conversely, Critterton is too green to be starter.

If Foye starts, a secondary issue arises as to whom backs up Arenas as the primary ball handler for the 2nd unit. Again, Crit seems green to me, so I see Foye doing double duty as the point for the 2nd unit. The 2nd unit could be Foye, Young, Miller, Blatche and McGee. Nevertheless, given Foye will only play about 38 minutes a game, Young and/or Miller would play 10 minutes in the backcourt with Arenas.

Nice problems for Flip to figure out. There is more than enough talent to go around. 50 wins.

Posted by: Izman | July 23, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

VBFan,

Completely agree.

Ragtop,

Completely agree as well with the possible exception of DS and his health.

This is by far the deepest most talented team this team has had maybe since I've been watching them, which means since about 1980/81. There is actually championship level talent on this team. That's not to say we will win the championship, but talent and depth is not lacking for once. And somebody tried to debate with me that the Wiz are not as talented as Denver when I said we could be the "Denver" of next season. BS! I can't wait for this season. DC now has the Caps, Wiz, and, perhaps, even the Redskins as really good teams to watch now. The economy may suck, but our teams are worth watching again!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 23, 2009 7:26 PM | Report abuse

hey I meant to add - a number of years ago I heard a good story about the Steelers I think it was - they had an injury plagued team and it was greatly affecting their team results. The following season they hired a specialist, yoga I think it was, but maybe ballet factored in also. The team injuries dropped signifcantly, and they played excellent that year.

Sorry the story has blurred over time, but the lesson is, the Wizards need to hire an expert in preparation and body conditioning to minimize injuries. Throw in this little bit of new-age hocus pocus and it's 50 wins and 2nd round for sure as others have said.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | July 23, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Izman,

Nice problems indeed. I see Foye as the starter opposite GA unless DS returns the player he was 2 seasons ago and I doubt that is going to happen. Foye will be our best on the ball defender from the get go, which is nice to have on the court with GA.

I'm sure Critt will see a decent amount of mins particularly in the second quarter with Foye being a co-backup to GA. I see either Foye or GA being on the court at all times in the second half of close games.

51 wins

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 23, 2009 7:47 PM | Report abuse

"DC_MANN,

Go somewhere else if all you want to do is continuously gripe about the Wiz and never have anything positive to say. It's annoying. You and "Bulletsfan" need to go take your medication. And, for your small cranium, he simply stated he is not playing for his Spanish team, which does not mean he will be playing for the T'Wolves this season. He is already enough of a headache that I'm sure the T'Wolves GM, whatever his name is, is probably regretting the pick.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 23, 2009 7:14 PM "

If you can't handle the truth, the put your blinders back on and don't read my posts.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 23, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Another nice move from EG to add depth to this club. It almost seems that having a coach now that can usually get 50 wins attracts a club and personnel that can get him there.

I wonder if they will try to fill the 15th spot on the team. As others have mentioned there is still James and his contract that could be traded by the deadline to fill in any other deficiencies that may show itself as the season progresses.

Posted by: cannontl | July 23, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

I understand DC actually has a pretty good sized Argentinean population...so let the Tango parties begin...

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 23, 2009 7:57 PM | Report abuse

It is an excellent addition for the development of JM and AB. As i said before his cardiac condition is not a concern.He had already an ablation theraphy.The doctors have removed the electrical area of his heart which was causing firing of un expected impulses that result an iregular heart beat called atria fibrilation.The electrical conversions that he used to get was a temporary solution.After ablation there is a

Posted by: gtefferra | July 23, 2009 8:01 PM | Report abuse

ragtop4spd writes:

the lesson is, the Wizards need to hire an expert in preparation and body conditioning to minimize injuries.

That's an excellent point, I think that would be a very worthy investment for the team. However, they could go a long way toward limiting injuries if they spread the minutes around more, giving bench players more time. Antawn Jamison, for example, plays a ridiculous number of minutes. He's resilient, and that's good, but his minutes have to drop this season if they want to avoid seeing him miss games with injuries this year.

I really like the addition of Oberto, btw. He's a hustle player. Silly daydreaming here: maybe they could use him as bait to entice Manu Ginobli to come aboard. Maybe exchange Foye for Ginobli. Not that the Spurs would ever part with him.

Posted by: satchmore | July 23, 2009 8:06 PM | Report abuse

alright, one more bit of extreme and rabid optimism... We know this is a team of excellent talent and good personalities, except they just couldn't focus on defense or stay on the same page as they left 2 coaches in their wake. Saunders is going to change that. In some sports, championships that beat Yankee, Laker, or Celtic mega-teams are often the result of several key players having career years or half-seasons all at the same time, and some players playing above their head a little. The players seem to feed off each other. I saw that repeatedly with the Oriolesa few decades ago - for those who remember, how could Lowenstein and Dempsey be such key players. The late 70s champion Wizards were the same, blossoming in the playoffs after an avg year, eh Nils??? Veteran presence and drive to win. So for those fans who are still unsure, consider this: maturing Gil aware of his limits and mortality, max maturity Antawn, near max Caron, peaking wisdom Haywood, maturing but still young Blatche/Young/etc., the new players, and on and on. No negativity of note among the players, and the team prima donna factor dropping steadily. Saunders is going to convince these guys that the only thing that can stop them is a negative attitude, and lack of pride.

If they don't go far this season, then I'll be the first to vote for cleaning house, but that's not going to happen because the pride and leadership factors are aligning even better than the raw talent.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | July 23, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse

satchmore - great point on the minutes. Control of personal stat goals and increased team-mate trust are key factors this season, and maybe the minutes can drop through Saunder's coaching. Last season, Antawn probably wanted to provide that leadership too much. Previously, Gil wanted to do too much himself - I agree 100% those minutes have to change, and this deep team will make it possible at least.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | July 23, 2009 8:20 PM | Report abuse

This is a very good pick-up filling exactly the role that was needed.

Oberto was playing an average of 15 min/game over his 4 years with the Spurs. He is a quality role player and quality backup, even on very good teams.

There will normally be about 30 total backup mins at 4/5 per game, plus addt'l mins from injuries, fouls etc. FO providing 10-15 min /game splitting the backup 4/5 role with AB and JM says nothing bad about them or the Wiz - it's the logical role for a quality backup who provides some bulk that AB and JM don't.

Posted by: Bill81 | July 23, 2009 8:44 PM | Report abuse

DC_MANN,

You continually spam these boards with your comments. There is nothing wrong with having a differing opinion, but you're so one-sided that you've become a caricature. You took a post about the signing of Oberto and used it spew your intentionally misleading bs post about Rubio. Please do us all a favor and learn to have constructive debates without flogging the same dead horse into oblivion.

Anyway, I think this is a good pickup for the Wizards, especially considering some of the deadweight they were considering (Magloire, May).

Posted by: OffseasonChamps | July 23, 2009 8:54 PM | Report abuse

Why should we be surprised? In Ernie we trust...Perfect move!!! We didn't need a high-priced flashy pretty boy. We need a tough, tall, experienced vet who can help especially if Haywood goes down again.

We now have a balanced team: bigs and smalls, young and old, slashers and shooters, defensive specialists and offensive specialists.

Top 3 keys to the season to me are...

#1 health (especially Gils)

#2 Flip's coaching. Will he figure out roles and will there be buy-in from the players with willingness to sacrifice for the team

#3 Can Flip's presence and staff improve the overall defense and rebounding?

I have not wanted to think it but now I do think that we could be looking at a turnaround like the Spurs in the Duncan rookie year. This could be a special season indeed! Bring it on!!!

BmoreRev

Posted by: stanlong23 | July 23, 2009 8:57 PM | Report abuse

I'm encouraged. We have a new mix of players. Yes, we still have the "big three," and a lot of "if we can stay healthy," but, the bulk of the team is younger and very talented. The big question is a matter of leadership and collective chemistry. Is there a leader, someone besides Antawan Jamison, who is willing to step up and talk the talk and more importantly walk the walk? Is Agent Zero willing and able be the man....like a Kobe, young Jordan, an Oscar Robinson, a Bill Russell, a Magic or Kareem, an Elvin Hayes, a Wes Unseld (the player)a player that elevates his team synergistically to a level higher than the sum of its parts? I've doubted Ernie but it does appear that he does have saavy, and an eye for talent and pulled together a team with potential. Now just change the teams colors, and hit the ground running. No more cheap themes, but effective action. Let's see.

Posted by: zbopjazz | July 23, 2009 9:00 PM | Report abuse

P.S.

I agree with those who would like to see a quality big man coach...someone who has been there. Who might that be?

Posted by: zbopjazz | July 23, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

Bullets were a moron for picking Kenny Green over Karl Malone. When will they ever learn?? The stupidity never stops...

Posted by: Henchlow | July 23, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

Ernie G did a very good job. I am looking forward to the start of camp. Oberto is worth the $2 million. Oberto can fill in for Haywood and pass on some experience and knowledge to Blatche and McGee and some others. Sometimes it is hard to be patient especially when your other targeted players have signed with other teams. If the Wiz now get a chance to get Gooden with a minimum 1 year contract, that would also be a good additional move.

Posted by: JoeC2 | July 23, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse

Happy to see the Wiz spend the money they sold the draft pick for, at the very least. They still could have done more, but at least they're not rail-thin anymore at the 4-5.

Posted by: psps23 | July 23, 2009 9:31 PM | Report abuse

If you can't handle the truth, the put your blinders back on and don't read my posts.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 23, 2009 7:50 PM

DC_MAN88 I have been a member of this board a very long time and he was right about you and mind you there is nothing wrong with saying bad things if they are warrented but when you write about the wizards there is pure hate in your content. Let me ask if you dont mind LOL did the wizards cheat you out of a ticket when you were young LOL And this is your revenge on the team. Not trying to tear you down just a honest observatrion from a very long time of seeing your posts on this site

Posted by: rnorris6 | July 23, 2009 9:44 PM | Report abuse

This is really exciting. Oberto.zzzzzzzzz!I wonder hom many games he'll be active for.25? for the season? And then its adious Oberto.

Posted by: firemetalrat | July 23, 2009 10:03 PM | Report abuse

As long as Oberto is really healthy I won't complain.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 23, 2009 10:47 PM | Report abuse

"So what other equalizer do you propose to compare players by, most omniscient Kal?"

There's no need for equalizers. If you want to rate players, rate them by what they do in the actual minutes they play, not by what they may or may not do in imaginary minutes they haven't played.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 23, 2009 10:49 PM | Report abuse

"Top 5 picks are supposed to develop into the 1st-2nd option on a team...that's why he's considered a bust."

Top 5 picks (esp. one who played 4 years at one of the top bball schools in the nation) are supposed to be good enough to play more than token minutes on sub-500 lottery teams. A guy who could only earn 10 mpg on the lousy, no account Sacramento Kings (a team in desperate need of toughness and inside presence) 2 1/2 years after being a top lottery 5 pick is a bust. You can tart it up all you like, but that's what it comes down.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 23, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

"DC_MAN88 I have been a member of this board a very long time and he was right about you and mind you there is nothing wrong with saying bad things if they are warrented but when you write about the wizards there is pure hate in your content. Let me ask if you dont mind LOL did the wizards cheat you out of a ticket when you were young LOL And this is your revenge on the team. Not trying to tear you down just a honest observatrion from a very long time of seeing your posts on this site

Posted by: rnorris6 | July 23, 2009 9:44 PM "

STFU.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 23, 2009 10:56 PM | Report abuse

As for the main topic:

Oberto is a cheap pickup who will have limited impact if things work the way they should. He'll make a nice "break glass in case of emergency" kit. Of course, in case of actual emergency, he won't be enough to save the building from going down in flames.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 23, 2009 10:57 PM | Report abuse

It's going to be interesting to see how Flip ends up using Oberto. The Wiz are caught between win-now and develop their young talent. As the season wears on, Flip may be tempted to use Oberto more because he'll likely understand and execute defensive sets better than Blatche or McGee.

As for who starts with Gil, it may ultimately be moot. Who gets the most time at the 2 will probably depend a bit on who is playing the best and who matches up better with the current opponent. Maybe one of those guys will take command of that spot, but no idea yet who that will be. I do figure that Foye will split his time there and running the second unit. I'm figuring that Critt's minutes get squeezed this year.

We are also in the unique (for us) position of being able to field a more defensive-minded unit for short stretches in Foye, DS, McGuire, Oberto/McGee, and Haywood.

I think I remember reading that Flip likes to use a short rotation, but he would be wise with this team to use 8 or 9 and limit AJ and Gil's minutes. Especially early on.

Posted by: ts35 | July 23, 2009 11:36 PM | Report abuse

Ragtop, Jamison actually picked up yoga a couple years ago to improve his flexibility and strengthen his core to prevent injuries. Maybe its not a coincidence thats he's the most durable Wizard over the past few years

Posted by: detox04 | July 23, 2009 11:39 PM | Report abuse

rnorris,

You can't be rationale with irrational people. That is why I did not even try. Apparently he skipped his meds today once again!

I've been through all the worst this franchise has had to offer (Wes Unseld as GM, etc...) and this team with EG as the GM is as good as we've ever had. So, to be as bad a scrooge as DC_MANN is doesn't make any sense. But, once again, I wouldn't expect otherwise from someone as irrational as him. Wait for it! I'm sure some personal attack is on the way. I'll get my tissues ready...lol.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 23, 2009 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Oberto will fill a role that is very needed. Helping against larger front courts and centers as a backup to Haywood. Did not know this role is just a "break glass in case of emergency" kit kind of role? Seems to me it's a real need and if it involves him seeing only 10-15 mins a night, it's still a hole that is being plugged. Underestimate if you wish.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 23, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

If he had to Oberto could play 20 minutes but that would be A)pushing it and could cause him to be injured and B) the worst case scenario has been realized(Haywood is hurt or Blatche and McGee are hurt or stinking it up. If all is going well with the team he would only see 10 minutes a night and he has proven useful withtin that limited time.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 24, 2009 12:35 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone know what Mike James is making this year? I know that the bucks want to move Bowen and he might be a nice addition as he could tutor the young guys on how to play proper defense and study tapes.

Posted by: anacostia85 | July 24, 2009 12:40 AM | Report abuse

"Oberto was playing an average of 15 min/game over his 4 years with the Spurs."

Know what else he was doing over his 4 years with the Spurs? Playing next to Tim Duncan.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 24, 2009 12:53 AM | Report abuse

"Seems to me it's a real need and if it involves him seeing only 10-15 mins a night, it's still a hole that is being plugged. "

Now it's up to 15 minutes, huh?

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 24, 2009 12:54 AM | Report abuse

Back off of DCMAN88, we aren't moronic herds of sheep like other cities fans. We are the legendary fans of DC who call it like it is and even when we disagree, welcome critical opinions because its a valuable check to make sure our beloved Bullets are genuinely heading in the right direction and that we are not simply drinking the kool-aid.

Posted by: emmet1 | July 24, 2009 1:01 AM | Report abuse

"We are also in the unique (for us) position of being able to field a more defensive-minded unit for short stretches in Foye, DS, McGuire, Oberto/McGee, and Haywood."

Playing that unit would also put the Wizards in the not necessarily unique position to be outscored by double digits when opponents swarm Foye to get the ball out of his hands and salivate at the prospect of one of those other guys trying to carry the offense.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 24, 2009 1:02 AM | Report abuse

"Pretty sure most scouts can grasp the fact that the ONLY thing "The Landlord" brings is rebounding and some D...maybe that's why he's unemployed?"

Yeah, because teams hate players that ONLY bring defense and rebounding. Those guys never get picked up.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 24, 2009 1:04 AM | Report abuse

Nice veteran pick up. Gil comeback player of the year. Book it.

Posted by: ptp23 | July 24, 2009 1:10 AM | Report abuse

"We are also in the unique (for us) position of being able to field a more defensive-minded unit for short stretches in Foye, DS, McGuire, Oberto/McGee, and Haywood."

Playing that unit would also put the Wizards in the not necessarily unique position to be outscored by double digits when opponents swarm Foye to get the ball out of his hands and salivate at the prospect of one of those other guys trying to carry the offense.

---------

Key words there are "short stretches" Kal. In the right circumstances you throw that unit out there for a few minutes to change the tempo of a game. Depending on the matchups, you could also sit one of those guys -- say Oberto/McGee in favor of McGuire d'ing up small 4's -- and sub in Butler who's not a bad defender.

If you have a team out there that hustles on D, rebounds, can run and would be willing to move the basketball -- as at least Foye, DS, McGuire and to a lesser extent McGee and Haywood have proven they are -- you might be surprised. Basketball is also much easier when you *don't* try to rely on one guy to 'carry' the offense.

But I understand that if it didn't spawn from the mind of Kal, it isn't plausible ;-)

And btw, with that lineup, I wouldn't swarm Foye, that only creates openings for the other players. I would make Foye try to beat me and only help if he beats his man.

The ultimate point being that it's just interesting for once in recent memory to have those kinds of options to even consider.

Posted by: ts35 | July 24, 2009 1:44 AM | Report abuse

"Key words there are "short stretches" "

You'd be surprised how quickly a team can go on a 15-0 run when the other team can put the ball in the basket.

"Depending on the matchups, you could also sit one of those guys -- say Oberto/McGee in favor of McGuire d'ing up small 4's -- and sub in Butler who's not a bad defender."

Which is a pretty obvious attempt to backpedal from your previous position by conceding that the lineup you listed would die on the vine without someone else on the floor who can create offense. Otherwise know as conceding the point.

"If you have a team out there that hustles on D, rebounds, can run and would be willing to move the basketball . . . "

Moving the ball is great, as long as you're moving it into the hands of guys who can put it in the hoop.

"Basketball is also much easier when you *don't* try to rely on one guy to 'carry' the offense.":

Exactly my point, and exactly why you don't have one. Putting Foye on the floor with 4 nonscorers is going to force him to handle the entire scoring load. Assuming the other team isn't coached by an idiot, they'll do everything they can to get and keep the ball out of Foye's hands and force the other nonscorers to make plays on the offensive end. Good luck with that.

"But I understand that if it didn't spawn from the mind of Kal, it isn't plausible"

Based on that suggested lineup, one has to question how much you understand about the plausibility of bball strategy.

"And btw, with that lineup, I wouldn't swarm Foye, that only creates openings for the other players. "

Other players who can't score.

I would make Foye try to beat me and only help if he beats his man."

See previous comment re: bball strategy.

"The ultimate point being that it's just interesting for once in recent memory to have those kinds of options to even consider."

Not so much.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 24, 2009 2:00 AM | Report abuse

And I came late to this discussion so I'm not sure who I'm disagreeing with, but I think that while he's a bust, signing Shelden Williams to fill that 10-15 mins big man slot (that Oberto will fill) wouldn't have been a bad move. Basically about the same as Oberto. Williams gives you younger legs, Oberto the experience of playing for a championship team.

Posted by: ts35 | July 24, 2009 2:04 AM | Report abuse

detox & ragtop, Butler also supposedly started yoga last season.

As for picking up Oberto, good move.
I just wonder what Wiz will do with 14 players.

Which two players will have the most number of civilian suit days?
Will it be James, Crittenton, McGee, Stevenson, McGuire?

Posted by: rickgonz | July 24, 2009 2:18 AM | Report abuse

Hey guys, back of DCMAN88, he's gotta get ready to go work at McDonalds. It's hard for High School kids to find good summer jobs these days. Don't eat too many nuggets DCMAN!

Posted by: PrisonBalls00 | July 24, 2009 6:39 AM | Report abuse

...theres's been so much anticipation, its hard not get momentarily overexcited about this recent addition and the potential for this team this coming season. I do think that for $1.9M Ernie found the best player available for this team at that price. If the Wiz would/could have spent more they could have gotten much more than Oberto will offer, of that I am sure. But now at least they have upgraded their team across the back line (+Oberto, -Pech, -ET, -DSong), albeit moderately, and improved along the front line (+Foye, +Miller)rather dramatically. Plus with the return to health of GA, BTH and DSteve, the Wiz have a team with a legit shot at a making it to the divisional title game. They no longer have to rely on young knuckle-heads to get to that level or even to win games. They now have 8 solid veterans. Each of the 3 most inexperienced players (NY, DMac and McGee) can be given very specifc roles to play during the flow of the game. If they execute great, if not Flip does not have to rely on them any great length of time, therefore not dooming the team to failure. The wild card for the extended success of this team (winning the division and going to the next level) comes down to the play of Blatche. If he can play consistently and provide that low post scoring option and solid defensive play for about 20 minutes a game every night, the Wiz can be a top tier team next year. This is of coarse a very big IF...and if everything is clicking for the Wiz, expect AB, Ernie still has MJames' $6.5M salary to potentially trade for a veteran low post scorer mid season just before the trade deadline. Considering what Ernie had to work with at the end of last season, implied financial parameters, I think Ernie has done a very nice job building up the team around the big 3...

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 24, 2009 7:15 AM | Report abuse

AB playing with one hand behind his back is better than Oberto on HGH AND roids. If we're planning for him to be the first PF off the bench, then I'm starting the 'Flip must go' chants now.

Oberto has had double digit rebound games 13 times IN HIS 4 YEAR NBA CAREER. He's scored double digits in points 21 times IN HIS NBA CAREER. He's has more than one block in a game 4 times IN HIS NBA CAREER.

This includes the year before last when he played in all 82 games and started 64 of them. In fact the guy has started in 108 of those 274 career games. Now, I know he's not asked to score but come on... He's not the tough defender/rebounder we've been looking for and if anyone thinks he puts us over the top or provides anything but a towel waver, they're mistaken. The guy is a taller, much less talented version of Songaila.

Posted by: original_mark | July 24, 2009 7:19 AM | Report abuse

I'm all for this move! Detroit is paying half his salary, and we're only so far into luxtax territory!

Someone asked about Mike "Sue-your-Nanny" James salary for next year. $6.2 million.

And we are $8 million in tax. Mikey, pack your diaper bags.

Now we just have to find someone to take him in a salary dump deal (have the Nuggets used up their $10 million Camby trade exception?)

Posted by: mabkhar | July 24, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Solid move...

Posted by: MEssex | July 24, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

It will be good to have another vet on the team, if only to learn the young'uns some discipline. But anyone excited by what Oberto brings to the court hasn't seen him play. He is the Mark Alarie of Argentina, adequate hustle and effort, but minimal skills and way out of his league physically. The latter deficiency makes him play as if he is 'in a rush', as he struggles to keep up with faster, more fluid athletes. The only need he fills aside from veteran leadership is having an unusual haircut on the bench to replace the Poet's dreads and Desteve's Taliban beard from a few years back.

Posted by: SammyT1 | July 24, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Quote: ""So what other equalizer do you propose to compare players by, most omniscient Kal?"

"There's no need for equalizers. If you want to rate players, rate them by what they do in the actual minutes they play, not by what they may or may not do in imaginary minutes they haven't played."

Comparing players by actual Points Per Minute Played or normalized to Points per 40 Minutes yields the same comparative result.

Additionally, as players points per game increase after a few years, it is almost always due to more minutes (i.e., more minutes contribute to more than 80% of the outcome of more points per game).

Posted by: Izman | July 24, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Mike, can we get an update on what Gil's training session with Grover was like? I read that Devin Harris and OJ Mayo were there, too. Since this teams success hinges in large part on his recovery, I'd like to know how he's looking.

Posted by: original_mark | July 24, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Great move! Championship! Book it!

Didn't we just trade away an F/C with a heart problem that could give us 2.5 pts and 2.5 rebs a night?

Someone said 50 wins and the second round. That sounds about right. Not exactly the "championship-run" that EG seemed to be trying to sell the fans.

I once again submit my original prediction/complaint: This team will max out where the 2004 team did. I don't see why we are prepared to celebrate EG's moves b/c the ballclub is about to return to the stature it had 5 years ago. Feels like 5 wasted years to me.

Posted by: p1funk | July 24, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

funk what's poppin? since when was a heart problem less of a concern than a knee problem? last time i checked the heart was kinda important during general day to day activities.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 24, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

I don't like per 48 stats either. I mean McGee's per 48s matched Brook Lopez's...but Lopez played was starting. McGee? Not so much.

Let alone the statistics for what they give up. McGee put up similar numbers p/48 to Lopez but gave up 23/14 and 2 and gave up a much higher FG %. I also agree it doesn't factor in court awareness and proper positioning etc.

So to whoever said JaVale was better than Brook Lopez already....not so much. Once his fundamentals improve...he could be just as good.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Oberto started all those games on a Championship caliber team because he's a capable player who knows his role. The guy knows how to defend, and he knows how to do the dirty work on the boards.

He can get down in the blocks and tie up his man and if the ball bounces his way great, but more often then not, one of the other Spurs got their hands on it.

On offense he was bright enough to know he was the 5th option. Not because he's a bad offensive player, but he was often on the floor with 4 other guys that had been to the allstar game mainly for their offense.

I got really busted on a while back because I said Blatche would be an Allstar if he had Songaila's footwork in the lane. I'd agree with Mark's assesment of Blatche vs. Oberto's talent level, and I hope early in the year Flip's going to give Blatche and JM lots of run time.

But if those guys don't learn footwork, leverage, angles,postioning, and setting your man upto beat him to the boards. come playoff time we might be seeing a fair amount of Oberto.

If a guy that is a step slower, and can't jump, beats you to the ball you ought to be taking a look at his footwork before the shot went up. Darius had well coached and drilled footwork, so does Oberto. Plus Oberto's got about another 2" of height and is alot stronger then Songaila.

Songaila's been playing hobbled with a bad back since he got here. So Ernie shipped out two broken down frontline guys for a healthy one in these deals.

If Blatche and McGee wrangle with Oberto in practice for awhile it will do the kids a lot of good. I see this as a really good move for the team and for the young guys growth up front.

On the Sheldon Williams thing, just because a guy is regarded as a lottery bust and his option isn't picked up, doesn't mean he can't play.

Williams got dealt into a situation in Sacramento where they had two very young bigs that they are commited to. In that way he was similar to Critt getting dealt to Memphis. The Grizzles already had two points and a combo guard in front of him that they were commited to.

It happens in the NBA, talented young guys can get buried on really bad teams. Often because the team has a huge investment in another player. My quess is Sheldon will surface somewhere and be a servicable player. A star, Probably not.

But he still has the chance to be a solid rotation guy. He's just got to land in the right place. Like a lot of guys that flamed out he might have to go overseas to hone his game before coming back.
GM



Posted by: flohrtv | July 24, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

funk what's poppin? since when was a heart problem less of a concern than a knee problem? last time i checked the heart was kinda important during general day to day activities.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 24, 2009 9:35 AM

the ususal...Ernie's spinning wheels to bring us back to where we've already been, and cats think he's brilliant...

Posted by: p1funk | July 24, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

This was the roster in '04: Arenas, Hughes, Jared Jeffries, Jamison, Haywood, Michael Ruffin, Etan Thomas, Anthony Peeler, LaRon Profit, Jarvis Hayes, Steve Blake, Juan Dixon, Samaki Walker, Kwame Brown, Damone Brown.


Why not Washington? If (huge if) they stay healthy they can be a matchup nightmare. Arenas, Foye, Miller, Jamison, Young and Butler can score with any team in the league. It all depends on health and the defensive concepts Flip brings and if it can change the culture of the team. Oberto's toughness and basic knowledge shouldn't be overlooked, hopefully it rubs off on some of these kids.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

"Didn't we just trade away an F/C with a heart problem that could give us 2.5 pts and 2.5 rebs a night?

I once again submit my original prediction/complaint: This team will max out where the 2004 team did."

I won't quibble with your prediction. I'll just say this, without a 2x2 F/C with a heart problem, we were looking at accomplishing much less than the 2004 squad.

Who out there is pretending that we have team that can make a deep run into June? Seriously?

Oberto isn't a game changer by any stretch of the imagination. He's an insurance policy against our current crop of bigs falling victims to injuries/attitude problems/inconsistency. May not sound like much, but it is a legitimite need on this team.

Ernie is systematically meeting the needs of this team, and for that I give him a lot of credit. I would like for him to dump Mike James, (because a $78 million payroll with him on it is the same team as a $72 million payroll without him). But then again, maybe they want to pay the luxury tax just so some commenters will stop calling Abe "Cheap".

Posted by: mabkhar | July 24, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Glad we picked up Oberto...Hope he doesn't play more than 400 minutes all season.

It'll be nice to have him fill in every now and then, though.

So, now the big questions are, in order of importance:

1) Is Gil back to his All-Star self?
2) Can BTH play 30 mpg for more than 50 games?
3) Will AJ and CB play their normal All-star caliber games?
4) Is DeShawn healthy enough to play 20-25 minutes of lock down and whether he will no longer be able to feel his face?
5) Is NY gonna meet his potential this year?
6) Is Mcgee going to take this year to transistion from a 20 yo, raw player to next years starter?

7) Is Blatche going to play well enough that we can package him and Mike James for David Lee at the trade deadline?

If the answer to all of these is yes, then we will see the Eastern Finals and the truth is, once you get to the conference finals, you can make the Finals and be a champ.

Wiz will set the record for most improvement in wins...I am sure of a 30 game improvement, but will go out on a limb and call it a 35 game improvement. 54 wins for the Wiz.

Let's all pray for some health and few good bounces. I have Bullets Fever!

Posted by: Blurred | July 24, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

This was the roster in '04: Arenas, Hughes, Jared Jeffries, Jamison, Haywood, Michael Ruffin, Etan Thomas, Anthony Peeler, LaRon Profit, Jarvis Hayes, Steve Blake, Juan Dixon, Samaki Walker, Kwame Brown, Damone Brown.


Why not Washington? If (huge if) they stay healthy they can be a matchup nightmare. Arenas, Foye, Miller, Jamison, Young and Butler can score with any team in the league. It all depends on health and the defensive concepts Flip brings and if it can change the culture of the team. Oberto's toughness and basic knowledge shouldn't be overlooked, hopefully it rubs off on some of these kids.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 10:00 AM


I agree that the '04 roster is less talented than this one when you go player for player.

While Ernie was busy losing the gamble on Gil's knee, the East has gotten better around us.

Realistically there is no reason to believe that Flip can get anything more defensively out of this group that what we've seen from it in years past. Gil is still not gonna play D. AJ is still not gonna play D. Flip is not a defensive coach. We can hope that maybe they pull it together, but it's just that - a blind hope.

We can score for sure, but the problem is HOW we score. We're gonna score primarily by shooting the ball. Once we get to the post-season and guys really start playing D and coaches have 7 games to scheme you, we all know what happens - jump-shooters get cold. If you don't have a legit post-guy to run your offense through and get access to higher percentage shots than just perimeter jumpers, you are toast.

Posted by: p1funk | July 24, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

what's the cap fig on oberto? do we pay the lux tax?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 24, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

izman: "Comparing players by actual Points Per Minute Played or normalized to Points per 40 Minutes yields the same comparative result.Additionally, as players points per game increase after a few years, it is almost always due to more minutes (i.e., more minutes contribute to more than 80% of the outcome of more points per game)."

Problem: there's a tremendous difference between playing 15 minutes a game (and missing some games entirely) and starting and playing thirty-plus minutes a game, over the course of an entire season.

The numbers don't capture that. That's why it's not terribly helpful to compare limited-role backups with starters. It may not be apples and oranges, but it's Galas and Granny Smiths.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

While Ernie was busy losing the gamble on Gil's knee, the East has gotten better around us.

Realistically there is no reason to believe that Flip can get anything more defensively out of this group that what we've seen from it in years past. Gil is still not gonna play D. AJ is still not gonna play D. Flip is not a defensive coach. We can hope that maybe they pull it together, but it's just that - a blind hope.

We can score for sure, but the problem is HOW we score. We're gonna score primarily by shooting the ball. Once we get to the post-season and guys really start playing D and coaches have 7 games to scheme you, we all know what happens - jump-shooters get cold. If you don't have a legit post-guy to run your offense through and get access to higher percentage shots than just perimeter jumpers, you are toast.

Who has gotten so much better? Boston? By trying to trade their PG and alienating him? Adding Rasheed? They're OLD. KG was supposed to be out for a week and missed months. They can't do it forever.

Cleveland added Shaq. I hope LeBron runs into him on one of his streaks through the lane. Falls over looking for a foul to see that it's HIS teammate this time.

Orlando let it's best playmaker go. VC...I'm not sold. Who else? Chicago? Atlanta? Miami?

I will admit. I like Miami though.

Oberto costs 1.9 on the cap and we we're paying the tax before we got him anyway.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Who out there is pretending that we have team that can make a deep run into June? Seriously?

Posted by: mabkhar | July 24, 2009 10:00 AM

Apparently Ernie does if you take his statements at face-value. He's been saying for years (and continues to say) that he believes this team can "compete with anyone" assuming everyone is healthy.


Posted by: p1funk | July 24, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Who has gotten so much better? Boston?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 10:24 AM

Yeah. Boston for one. Remember how they won that CHAMPIONSHIP a couple years ago??

Cleveland has gotten better simply b/c LeBron has gotten better. While Gil was writing cartoon scripts on crutches, LeBron was carrying his team to Finals and Conference Championships.

Orlando got better and is still better than the Wiz. DHoward is still improving. They lost Turk, but they get back Jameer Nelson and Vince Carter.

Another team that has significantly improved since then would be the Hawks. Miami is finding itself again.

We need to see where Boozer lands b/c if he goes to Chicago or Miami that would significantly improve both those teams, and, IMO, bump them ahead of where Washington is at.

In '04 there was Detroit and then everyone else in the East. Miami was a serious player. Now there are 3 serious championship contenders in the East. And other teams that have improved.

Posted by: p1funk | July 24, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Didn't some brilliant dude here say that EG was a genius because he knew Rubio wasn't going to be at the 5, and secondly, even if he was, that he wasn't going to leave his Spanish team?

I guess not after all....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4348398

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 23, 2009 6:43 PM

hahahah. if you are going to post a link i suggest you read the entire article... he is leaving his current team in spain for sure. But if you read more than just the headline you'll see this part -- Spanish basketball clubs Real Madrid and Barcelona are both interested in signing Rubio if he cannot make it to the NBA this season. Unlike the Timberwolves, they are not subject to the collective bargaining rules of the NBA and could pay the entire buyout fee to get him.

Posted by: jnicol2 | July 24, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Did not pay close attention to Oberto in the past, so I can't say he does not fit my description of a Big Mean Tough Guy. But he has been signed for the role, so the jury is out in my opinion.

But, it is curious why San Antonio would go with Ratliff over Oberto.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 24, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

It may not be apples and oranges, but it's Galas and Granny Smiths.

Gala apples are delicious by the way.

Realistically there is no reason to believe that Flip can get anything more defensively out of this group that what we've seen from it in years past. Gil is still not gonna play D. AJ is still not gonna play D. Flip is not a defensive coach. We can hope that maybe they pull it together, but it's just that - a blind hope.

Why isn't it realistic? Kobe sure didn't used to play defense. Neither did MJ. Gil is just turning 27 I believe? Let him grow up. He said he wants to change, see what happens first. Eddie wasn't a defensive coach. Numbers don't say Flip isn't a defensive coach...since everybody loves numbers so much.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

'But, it is curious why San Antonio would go with Ratliff over Oberto.'

Probably because Oberto is 34, has a heart condition, and was never that good to begin with.

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Samson,

Germaine O’Neal is often given as the example of a guy who improved tremendously after a few years in the league.

For example:

His points per game were: 4.1, 4.5, 2.5, 3.9, 12.9, 19.0

His rebounds per game were: 2.8, 3.3, 2.7, 3.3, 9.8, 10.5

But then look at his Points per 40 Min: 22.3, 22.5, 27.9, 22.7, 21.8, 18.9 (pretty constant)

And his Rebounds per 40 minutes: 11.1, 11.2, 10.1, 10.6, 10.8, 9.4 (pretty constant)

All of the improvement in rebounds and scoring came from more minutes per game:
10.2, 13.5, 8.6, 12.3, 32.6, 37.6

Turns out that Portland didn’t play him and Indy did. The Per 40 (or per minute) figures showed he was pretty good if given a chance.

Posted by: Izman | July 24, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Yeah Boston won a couple years ago. They're top four players are 32+ and they're going to drop off. It won't be gradual. It's going to be ugly. Whether it happens this year or next. They're going to fall.

Cleveland...LeBron got better but Shaq doesn't fit them. They needed players to make open shots LeBron created. So they're about the same.

Orlando...Jameer Nelson is back and VC is slightly above average now.

Chicago WITH Boozer I still don't see as better than the Wizards.

I love how on this board they look at everyone elses team as best case scenarios and ours as worst case...I'd rather keep it balanced on both sides.

Boston, Orlando and Cleveland made a big change and could nose dive.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Oberto costs 1.9 on the cap and we we're paying the tax before we got him anyway.

so we end up paying 3.8 for him? 3.8 mill for 2.5 pts?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 24, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

'Others who caught the coaches' eyes included Rudy Gay, Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon and JaVale McGee'

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=4352887

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

I love how on this board they look at everyone elses team as best case scenarios and ours as worst case...I'd rather keep it balanced on both sides.

all those teams are coming off of playoffs, and generally percieved to be on the upswing, so they get the benefit of the doubt. even a lifelong bullets/wiz fan has to be worried on the heels of a 19 win season. those teams were better so they get the best case judgement, we were terrible, hence the doom and gloom.

but no worries Oberto's here to save the day.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 24, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Kobe sure didn't used to play defense. Neither did MJ. Posted by: SDMDTSU

I didn't think you were referring to Mike James, since he isn't a game changer on defense. But Mike James doesn't belong in the same (two) sentences as Kobe Bryant.

So I have to deduce that you are talking about Michael "Air" Jordan, whom Kobe idolizes.

The same MJ that won the 1988 Defensive Player of the Year, and was only selected to every single 1st Team All-NBA Defensive Teams in every full season he played after 1988 (for the Bulls).

But I am curious about which Kobe Bryant you may be referring to, since the only one I have heard of has been selected to 9 All NBA defensive teams as well (7 1st team selections, 2 2nd team selections).

Yeah, neither of those guys played any defense. So, obviously, none of our guys ought to be expected to achieve excellence by making any commitment to defense whatsoever!

Posted by: mabkhar | July 24, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Boston is a good team, but they need to have everything perfect to make the finals and I can't see it happening with their average starting age. Sheeeeeooot - people were talking about Washington being to old and our starters have got to be at least an average of 4 years younger than theirs.

Miami - unproven
Cleveland - desperate moves to placate LeBron in hopes of keeping him, may work out; may not
Orlando - Turk was the key to them wining the east and they let him go...made some gambles...may pay/may not
Atlanta - much improved, but they're...ummm...ATLANTA!!!!
Chicago is a complete question mark. This is like the third time they've blown up their team in 5 years.
I say Washington is right in the mix. If everything works out together, they can be the east champs, but that is a lot of ifs. Cleveland is probably the top threat in the east, followed by Orlando and maybe Boston. But Orl and Cleve have made key changes to their core and that could work out well or not...We will see.

Nonetheless, Wiz have a markedly better team than they had in 04 and while other teams are better, too, you can't make a direct parralel between the teams and the seasons because of all the changes in team chemistry.

CB is a marked improvement to LH. Miller is an improvement to JJ (I know these are not position comparisons; just value to the team comparisons); McGee is an improvement to Kwame; Foye/NY is an improvement to Peeler/Hayes; Oberto/Blatche is an improvement to Ruffin/Etan.

This doesn't even take into consideration a healthy DeShawn and the fact that Haywood is definitely a more of a serious NBA Center than he was 5 years ago.

All we need is a healthy team and we will compete for the conference championship.

Posted by: Blurred | July 24, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

"'Others who caught the coaches' eyes included Rudy Gay, Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon and JaVale McGee'

Posted by: divi3"

Is this the same Javale McGee that certain people here last year actually claimed didn't deserve PT and figured less into the team's 2009-2010 plans than Etan Thomas?

I'm simply shaking my head at ETaps right now (and more so to his defenders last season).

Posted by: psps23 | July 24, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

JaVale McGee is impressing the Team USA coaches!

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=4352887

Others who caught the coaches' eyes included Rudy Gay, Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon and JaVale McGee, and several team insiders said they were surprised how spry Greg Oden looked.

Posted by: arenasmvp | July 24, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

'But, it is curious why San Antonio would go with Ratliff over Oberto.'

Probably because Oberto is 34, has a heart condition, and was never that good to begin with.

Posted by: divi3

Health may have been an issue, but it was probably more about the money. I believe Ratliff was signed to the veteran minimum. About half of the money can be reimbursed against the cap (the Spurs are already over the luxury tax threshold). Plus the Spurs signed McDyess, drafted Blair, they have Duncan, and they have Matt Bonner already under a $3+ mill. contract for this season.

Oberto would probably be 3rd on the depth chart after Bonner and he'd cost an additional $3+ mill. More than Ratliff, the Spurs probably looked at Bonner and figured he was a younger, more reliable version of Oberto. With the Wizards Oberto actually has the chance to see some regular PT off the bench. The move makes sense for both teams.

Posted by: JPRS | July 24, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

"Oberto is a cheap pickup who will have limited impact if things work the way they should. He'll make a nice "break glass in case of emergency" kit. Of course, in case of actual emergency, he won't be enough to save the building from going down in flames.

Posted by: kalo_rama"

He's the "break the glass in case of an Andray Blatche or Javale McGee emergency" kit. Or a temporary reserve option should AJ or BTH miss a game here and there.

Posted by: psps23 | July 24, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

I just read that piece myself, psps23. I thought it was interesting to see what the Team USA coaching staff is looking for:

>>>Team USA managing director Jerry Colangelo and the coaching staff are concentrating on three areas where they expect to have to fill out the roster -- a third point guard to play behind Deron Williams and Chris Paul; an extra big man with the combination of quickness, defensive intensity and shooting range to play inside or outside; and a Mr. Versatility who would have the ability to spell LeBron James at the power forward spot, Carmelo Anthony at small forward, and Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade at shooting guard.

Durant fits the bill for that third guy.

From the list of players you have to think Derrick Rose is the leading contender to be the 3rd string PG. They must be looking at JaVale as the big man, even though he would seem to have a long way to go before he fits the bill on "shooting range". And while he may show plenty of "defensive intensity" he doesn't show a lot of defensive savvy. But maybe they think he'll be all that and more 13 months from now when the world championships begin.

Posted by: Prazak | July 24, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Teams will have problems getting stops. The wiz will miss, and occasionally get shots blocked but in general, there is no lose links offensively anymore(IF HEALTHY).

I don't think teams will be able to slow the offense in the post season either. They can double Gil and Stevenson will not be the one left open, it will be Miller or Foye or Butler or Jamison. They can man everybody and Gil will cause havoc. Teams will have problems stopping the bench as well. That don't mean they win it all, but LeBron will have to average 45+ and barely get any rest. Same for other east teams.

If you think you can draw a gameplan to stop the Wizards, pick a team and explain how to do it.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, neither of those guys played any defense. So, obviously, none of our guys ought to be expected to achieve excellence by making any commitment to defense whatsoever!

Pay attention. I said USED to. Kobe was not known for his defense coming into the league or even early in his career. Later into his career he made a commitment to defense. MJ is Michael Jordan who also made that commitment as he progressed.

Let alone the opinion that they were selfish gunners who weren't winners...yada yada yada.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

'The move makes sense for both teams.'

I think Joe Smith is easily the superior player and the Terp ties would have been nice every time he came in the game. However, as several have pointed out, the Oberto signing (vs someone else) really isn't that significant...if things go as planned he wont see 10mins a night

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

"Why isn't it realistic? Kobe sure didn't used to play defense. Neither did MJ. Gil is just turning 27 I believe? Let him grow up. He said he wants to change, see what happens first. Eddie wasn't a defensive coach. Numbers don't say Flip isn't a defensive coach...since everybody loves numbers so much."

You are not seriously comparing Gilbert Arenas to Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan, are you? Incidentally, both Jordan and Bryant were capable of playing lockdown defense before the age of 27.

"But, it is curious why San Antonio would go with Ratliff over Oberto."

San Antonio picked up Ratliff on the cheap to protect the rim (i.e. block shots). That is something that Oberto has never been known for.

I marvel at the thought that picking up Oberto put the Wizards into serious contention in the East. Oberto at the age of 34 is on the down side of his career and is unlikely to offer much beyond adding some depth and professionalism.

"Orlando let it's best playmaker go. VC...I'm not sold"

Vince Carter is a significantly better player than Turkoglu, in just about any category that matters. Orlando also picked up Brandon Bass and Matt Barnes while losing Courtney Lee and Rafer Alston. As far as I am concerned Orlando has become deeper and tougher.

"By trying to trade their PG and alienating him? Adding Rasheed? They're OLD. KG was supposed to be out for a week and missed months. They can't do it forever."

Rondo will be playing for a contract, I doubt he will waste time on angst or concern over the Celtics shopping him. The Celtics may be old but they are head and shoulders above the Wizards in talent, experience and toughness.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | July 24, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

I'm not comparing Arenas to Kobe or Jordan just saying someone can decide to commit to making an effort on defense. Period.

Boston has more talent 1-5...the bench..not so much. Let alone...they are old. You can't stop time from catching up to you eventually. New parts regardless of what they are do not equal performance. Ask our favorite football team. Ask Gary Payton and Karl Malone how going to the Lakers worked out. Things don't always click like they should.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

all those teams are coming off of playoffs, and generally percieved to be on the upswing, so they get the benefit of the doubt. even a lifelong bullets/wiz fan has to be worried on the heels of a 19 win season. those teams were better so they get the best case judgement, we were terrible, hence the doom and gloom.

but no worries Oberto's here to save the day.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 24, 2009 11:02 AM


Dude - we had 40% of our starters out the ENTIRE season and had another 20% of our starters out for most of the season - after trying to play hurt for the first part.

Then we had another 20% of our starting team out for a quarter of the season or so.

That is 2 allstars and the entire defensive unit out for a pretty solid chunk of the season. that's a pretty good reason to only win 19 games.

It's not like we were playing at 90% strength missing one of our non-star starters or had a key injury to our all-pro SG, but the rest of the team is healthy.

Think about Cleveland with Z and Williams out all season, Gibson out from Christmas on and West out 25 games. How many games would they have won?

Think about Boston with Garnett and Allen out all season and Big baby out half the season.

Think about Orlando with Gortat, Lewis and Nelson out.

get some perspective here. We were playing pro ball with a JV team last year and the team KEPT IT TOGETHER!!!! Most teams would have blown up and pointed fingers all season long and begged to be traded...These guys fought hard and the 2nd string just wasn't good enough to beat many starting NBA teams.

Not much shame in that.

What would be a shame is if our injured players from last year aren't recoverred.

Posted by: Blurred | July 24, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

When do unsigned FA's officially drop off the roster? I saw on one site that JD was still listed on the Wizard roster. Or, is it just an oversight?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 24, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

"I'm not comparing Arenas to Kobe or Jordan just saying someone can decide to commit to making an effort on defense. Period."

Can decide to commit? Sounds like wishful thinking. Eddie Jordan was trying to elicit just such a commitment for Gil for years. And now, after years of knee problems, you expect him to return as an improved defender?

At any rate, the Wizards primarily need Arenas' flair on offense. It will be interesting to see how willing he will be to drive to the basket in the coming season given his injury woes over the last couple of years.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | July 24, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

MJ was drafted in 1984 and was voted to the 1st All-NBA defense team in 1988.

Kobe was drafted in 1996 and USED to not get any playing time until they moved Eddie Jones 3 years later.

After that, those two regularily USED to bring home some all-NBA defense honor.

Jamison is 33, Butler is 29 and Arenas is 27. Not many corners left to turn. You usually see some signs of ability/commitment, etc after a few years in the league.

Are you trying to make the argument that Hibachi will flip a swithc (after three knee surgeries) like Kobe and MJ did?

Fine, then leave the rest of us alone, while you wrestle your round peg into a square hole.

Posted by: mabkhar | July 24, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

hey Michael, any more news on Gilbert? Also, what is Ernie going to do with Mike James?

Posted by: pjkiger1 | July 24, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Defense is more of a mental thing. A focused effort. Just like playing more of a team game than constantly shooting and alienating your teammates is. I bet nobody thought Kobe would "turn a corner" a couple years ago and start passing the damn ball.

Kobe didn't play his first 3 seasons? You're stupid. I don't think a new coach with new concepts can't expect improved defense from his team. I don't expect any of the to be Ron Artest, but they can improve. They have the athletic attributes.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

"Key words there are "short stretches" "

You'd be surprised how quickly a team can go on a 15-0 run when the other team can put the ball in the basket.

Really? Surprise me! What are the stats on that? While you're researching that, please also research my equally meritless assertion that you'd be surprised how long a defensive-minded lineup can hold a team scoreless.

"Depending on the matchups, you could also sit one of those guys -- say Oberto/McGee in favor of McGuire d'ing up small 4's -- and sub in Butler who's not a bad defender."

Which is a pretty obvious attempt to backpedal from your previous position by conceding that the lineup you listed would die on the vine without someone else on the floor who can create offense. Otherwise know as conceding the point.

Actually, not so much. Your initial contention was that the first lineup I suggested would automatically get outscored by double-digits, an assertion I don't accept merely on it's face, and you've provided nothing concrete to support it. I was pointing out that there are other lineups Flip could use that would still be strong defensively but have more offensive versatility. That's kind of a far cry from conceding the point.

I never claimed that the lineup I proposed would be a dynamic halfcourt offensive juggernaut. It's a lineup that would be designed to change the tempo. They would play strong D, contest shots, hustle and rebound on one end and they would have to use those rebounds and turnovers as opportunities to push the tempo. Every player in that lineup, except Oberto, can finish on the break. Foye, DS and McGuire can run a break.

Over time, yes, they would likely struggle in the halfcourt. But it's not a lineup you would leave in for long stretches unless it was proving effective. Also, assuming DS is healthy (and there's no reason you would play him this way if he weren't), he is a decent scorer, capable of driving to the basket and hitting open jumpers. Not claiming he is the second coming of Michael Jordan, just saying that classifying him as a "non-scorer" is a little disingenuous.

Posted by: ts35 | July 24, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Putting Foye on the floor with 4 nonscorers is going to force him to handle the entire scoring load. Assuming the other team isn't coached by an idiot, they'll do everything they can to get and keep the ball out of Foye's hands and force the other nonscorers to make plays on the offensive end. Good luck with that.

First, again, uptempo is the first option. Harder to take the ball out of Foye's hands in the first place, and less important if you do.

Second, as mentioned, DS can score and can to a limited extent initiate offense.

Third, if you're trapping and overplaying Foye to keep the ball out of his hands, I'm exploting that. If you're trapping Foye, the ball is moving to the open man and they're attacking the rim or taking the open shot depending on if the defense rotates. If the defense rotates, the ball goes to the next open man, with a good chance of getting it to one of the bigs near the hoop. If you're overplaying Foye, I'm picking and back-picking you to death. If you switch on the picks, I'm picking with McGee or Haywood on the low-block and exploiting the mismatch on the switch. If you're not switching, Foye will be coming free off the picks at least some of the time, compromising your D. Not saying it would be 100% effective or that easy, but there are options there.

But what really calls your basketball acumen into question is why you would bother treating Foye like he is LeBron or Kobe. Trapping him and overplaying him opens up easy opportunities for other players. With Kobe or LeBron, you live with that because it's better than the alternative. With Foye, you play him straight up and make sure the other players don't get easy chances. If Foye beats his man off the dribble, there's help available, but otherwise he's shooting jumpers, likely contested. If I'm the opposing coach, I'd much rather live with that. I mean Foye is a good offensive player, but he's hardly worth reinstituting the "Jordan Rules".

Posted by: ts35 | July 24, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Because in the time between the draft and his contract signing, Dalembert showed greater potential than Haywood. Like I said, Haywood came in with a bad rep regarding his attitude and focus and did nothing in his first 2 or 3 years that convinced anyone that the impression was false. By contrast, Thomas was hurt a good part of his first 3 seasons (missing all of his rookie year in Dallas) so teams (or at least one team, the Bucks) were, to a large extent, still evaluating him based on his potential, which had yet to be really proven or disproved.

NOTE: I misspoke before. Thomas was actually drafted 8 spots (and 1 year) ahead of Haywood.

Posted by: kalo_rama
-------------------------------------------

However, the historical facts have shown:

1) Whatever "bad rep" that you claimed Haywood had, he was drafted 6 positions ahead of Dalembert. In other words, Haywood with "bad rep" was still regarded as better than Dalembert by most GMs. So, "bad rep" cannot be used to explain why Haywood received less money than Dalembert, even if he "did nothing" to change that.

2) Dalembert didn't show anything (i.e., "potential") to be better than Haywood during their first 4 yrs (i.e., time for the 2nd contract) either. As I have stated, the stats for their contract year, Dalembert: 8.2 p/7.5r/1.7b; Haywood: 9.4p/6.8r/1.7b; pretty comparable by most standards.

BTW, if you had read my entire post, then you would not have made the mistake and had to correct it later, because I clearly stated that Haywood was drafted 8 position behind Thomas (in different year) in the very post that you responded.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 24, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

"Defense is more of a mental thing. A focused effort. Just like playing more of a team game than constantly shooting and alienating your teammates is. I bet nobody thought Kobe would "turn a corner" a couple years ago and start passing the damn ball."

A strong argument could be made that Kobe never did turn any corners. His assists have risen marginally, but he is essentially the same player that he was a "couple of years ago".

Any expectation of Gilbert becoming a force on defense is simply wishful thinking.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | July 24, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

The move makes sense for both teams.'

I think Joe Smith is easily the superior player and the Terp ties would have been nice every time he came in the game. However, as several have pointed out, the Oberto signing (vs someone else) really isn't that significant...if things go as planned he wont see 10mins a night

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2009 11:23 AM

------------------------------

Oberto is a more natural fit at center. Plus there's the familiarity with the coaching staff. Smith would be quality insurance at the 4 and is probably the better all-around player -- even at this stage in his career -- but Oberto addresses a specific need at the 5. The 20 lbs. difference is significant.

I agree that he's not be signed as a game changer -- he's insurance and might see some spot starter minutes in the event of an injury. We'll see how things go. If Oberto's health checks out, I'd be surprised if he doesn't get 8-10 minutes a night as Haywood's primary back-up. If McGee has a great training camp he could work into the primary back-up spot, but I'd wager he doesn't start the season as the primary back-up. He's learning the playbook AND he's still learning the position. Blatche probably serves as Jamison's primary back-up, but will probably see some minutes at the 5 as well.

Posted by: JPRS | July 24, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I love how on this board they look at everyone elses team as best case scenarios and ours as worst case...I'd rather keep it balanced on both sides.

Boston, Orlando and Cleveland made a big change and could nose dive.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 10:57 AM

The "big change" in Boston was what?? To add depth behind KG with a pretty darn good power forward that has also won a championship??

THe "big change" in Cleveland was to add a center to their rotation of bigs that can bring alot of interior toughness. It's not like they lost anyone from last year's team.

Losing Hedo could be significant, but the bread and butter of the Orlando team is the Nelson-Howard relationship and that's still there.

Why is it unreasonable to assume that the teams that have been in the mix for the championship over the past 2 seasons are still going to be in the mix when they pretty much have the same rosters intact?

Why is that a "best case" scenario?

Why is it a "worst case" scenario to say that a team that has not been competitive for the past 2 years, and is relying on a guy that is coming off of 3 knee surgeries, has alot to prove and an uphill battle to fight to show it is a real contender?

Especially when the core of the team has never gotten out of the 2nd round?

Posted by: p1funk | July 24, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah by the way, the truth about ET's contract is that he was offered a ridiculous contract by Bucks hoping that Wiz would never match it. We knew for a fact that the contract initially offered by Wiz was less than that because he didn't sign that one.

We would never know if Haywood would have gotten a better deal from other teams, because he signed the contract that was offered by the Wizards.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 24, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

"I agree that he's not be signed as a game changer -- he's insurance and might see some spot starter minutes in the event of an injury. We'll see how things go. If Oberto's health checks out, I'd be surprised if he doesn't get 8-10 minutes a night as Haywood's primary back-up. If McGee has a great training camp he could work into the primary back-up spot, but I'd wager he doesn't start the season as the primary back-up. He's learning the playbook AND he's still learning the position. Blatche probably serves as Jamison's primary back-up, but will probably see some minutes at the 5 as well."

I sincerely hope that the Wizards primarily use Oberto at power forward. He is undersized at center and the Wizards need to give court time to McGee to develop.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | July 24, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Give DeShawn a lil credit. He is the toughest Wizard. Tougher than Caron by the way. Caron is the best defender at shooting guard. Period. Now, basketball being a game of matchups, who on the Wizards would you rather defend LeBron, taking into consideration LeBron is unstoppable by anybody/any team? In a series against the Cavs, we will need DeShawn, along with Butler and McGuire to throw at LeBron.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

One of the best defenses for a guy like Labron is to make work on the defensive end. Miller won't win any awards for defense, he's servicable at best, but he will make Lebron work on defense.

So Miller will figure in that mix as well, particularly if he's working in a combo with Young running off of screens. Bron Bron's either got to chase Young or find Miller.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 24, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

running him around screens will help tire LeBron, but they need DeShawn too.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 24, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse


"I agree that he's not be signed as a game changer -- he's insurance and might see some spot starter minutes in the event of an injury. We'll see how things go. If Oberto's health checks out, I'd be surprised if he doesn't get 8-10 minutes a night as Haywood's primary back-up. If McGee has a great training camp he could work into the primary back-up spot, but I'd wager he doesn't start the season as the primary back-up. He's learning the playbook AND he's still learning the position. Blatche probably serves as Jamison's primary back-up, but will probably see some minutes at the 5 as well."

I sincerely hope that the Wizards primarily use Oberto at power forward. He is undersized at center and the Wizards need to give court time to McGee to develop.

Posted by: thomas_kecskes | July 24, 2009 12:58 PM

True. We'll see. That's why there's a training camp and a pre-season.

I'm sure that the competition for the primary back-up at the 5 is going to be completely open. I'd still wager that the veteran with less-upside, who doesn't make mistakes wins out in the early stages versus the 2nd year player with great upside who still is learning the position and the playbook. As the season goes on, it's anyone's guess.

Posted by: JPRS | July 24, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

projected eastern conference starting 5's

boston

wallace/perkins
kg
pierce
allen
rondo

Cleveland

Shaq
Varaejao
James
west
williams

Orlando

Howard
Lewis
pietrus
carter
nelson

Washington

Haywood
Jamison
Butler
Foye
Arenas

like a poster said earlier, everyone is always looks at the worst case scenarios on this team. but how about the other teams?theres not much difference in talent in the starting 5 with the super powers of the east teams. I think this is the best this team has been constructed in many years, we have alot of depth, versatility, a successful coach, a superstar in arenas who will be ready in october/november two former all star fowards, a sharp shooter a blossoming big man, we just signed our garbage hustle player(better than michael ruffin, samaki walker, ethan thomas etc..) we are set to go this year, the only condition is health. and whos to say orlando or boston or cleveland wont suffer a season ending injury to one of thier players..you never know and thats the beauty of sports!

54 wins, 4th in the east 1st round against ATL, second round against boston, and if we sneak past boston..a show down with the cavs to go to the big dance

Posted by: mrhney03 | July 24, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

What I dont get is why Oberto is being spoken of as a savvy vet who will push Mcgee and Blatche, defend well, etc, etc, etc

The guy has not averaged 5pts a night at any stage in his career, blocks virtually no shots whatsoever, and is a bad FT shooter. If he is pushing AB and Javale for minutes....what would that say about them??

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

'54 wins, 4th in the east 1st round against ATL, second round against boston, and if we sneak past boston..a show down with the cavs to go to the big dance'

only chance this happens is:

1)Gil comes back a superstar in the league, and a more mature player i.e. floor general

and

2)Haywood has a legit all-star caliber season

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

The "big change" in Boston was what?? To add depth behind KG with a pretty darn good power forward that has also won a championship??

THe "big change" in Cleveland was to add a center to their rotation of bigs that can bring alot of interior toughness. It's not like they lost anyone from last year's team.

Losing Hedo could be significant, but the bread and butter of the Orlando team is the Nelson-Howard relationship and that's still there.

Why is it unreasonable to assume that the teams that have been in the mix for the championship over the past 2 seasons are still going to be in the mix when they pretty much have the same rosters intact?

Why is that a "best case" scenario?

Why is it a "worst case" scenario to say that a team that has not been competitive for the past 2 years, and is relying on a guy that is coming off of 3 knee surgeries, has alot to prove and an uphill battle to fight to show it is a real contender?

Especially when the core of the team has never gotten out of the 2nd round?

The issue with Boston is age. And behind that age there is very little depth. The bench pretty much sucks. They’re loaded at the top but after that not so much. Sheed’s attitude, KG’s knee, how many mid-30’s players can you have and expect them not to break down?

Cleveland added Shaq a 38 year old C who actually had a good season last year, but he is contradictory to the style they play of let LeBron create. Shaq is also a defensive liability for high screen and rolls…and he’s 38. And he hasn’t been the healthiest.

Nelson who looked like trash in the finals? That Jameer Nelson? I know he was injured but who is to say he comes back and plays out of his mind like he did first half of last season? Jameer Nelson the PG who didn’t even handle the ball in crunch time? He can score but the offense ran through Hedo. Is Nelson’s game going to change now? Did anyone really consider Orlando a contender before last season?

The “core” of the Wizards has never been intact for the playoffs. And the players around the “core” since they were in the 2nd round is much improved. Arenas took basically a year off so he better be 100%. It’s no rushing back or anything, he took an entire season like should’ve done the first time. This is far and away the most talent the Wizards have had. No question about it. Foye and Miller's addition is going to be HUGE.

Every “contender” has questions. Even the Lakers adding Artest. That could be a disaster.

We'll just have to see.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I love how on this board they look at everyone elses team as best case scenarios and ours as worst case...I'd rather keep it balanced on both sides.
______

Exactly!

First, Kal, 10 mins, 15 mins, 16 mins, who cares? The fact is he is filling a specific need *other* than "break glass in case of emergency". He is playing backup center against the bigger guys in the league. Something, Blatche and McGee are too thin to do even if they are having career years for themselves. Guess you got nothing on that debate bc alas your wrong.

What else? Hmmm...Boston may have improved slightly on paper, but they are old and older. Paul Pierce is not the same player he was two years ago, not even close. He may need that wheelchair to carry him to games on a daily basis. Allen had a renaissance year, but, again, he is going to turn into Finley very soon, if not this season. Garnett I see being the same player for another year or two.

Atlanta, whatever...

Chicago, almost comparable, but not as deep, and less accomplished than our "core". They lost their best scorer didn't they? How many all-stars on that team?

Orlando, lost their best all-around player/play maker. Of course, Howard is a beast and will most likely improve his post moves etc..., but many thought Hedu was their most valuable player this past playoff run (Michael Wilbon for one). Gone! Vince Carter...whatever. I would take Hedu over him anyday now, but they will be in the mix still for sure. And, Gortat will be gone before the season. They signed him to get something in return bc he stated he does not want to stay in Orlando!

And that leaves, Cleveland. Old slow, but rather large front court. Not very athletic! Not improved from last season. It's a one man show for sure. After LeBron, we would have the next 4/5 players on a talent scale.

So, yeah...we can be this year's Denver if you give us a best case scenario as some do for every other team, but us. We'll said!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 24, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

I think Shaq-fu's presence in Cleveland helps them a great deal, in ways not necessarily on the court.

Cavs have been Lebron & the Bozos for several seasons, culminating this past playoffs where it literally appeared none of his teammates dare take any shots without permission. Or really do anything but watch him play.

110% of the Cavs media coverage focused on Lebron and he had to answer every question, be the center of every presser.

Shaq changes all that no matter what kind of season he has. Lebron needed a PEER, and Shaq is that and then some. Lot of weight lifted off James shoulders, move could help them a ton even if shaq has the season you'd expect from a 38yr old

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

competitive for the past 2 years, and is relying on a guy that is coming off of 3 knee surgeries, has alot to prove and an uphill battle to fight to show it is a real contender?
Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 2:24 PM

no one is saying this is going to be a cakewalk. it is going to be extremley hard. but remember...arenas's first year out we still made the playoffs, with a roster and coach less talented than what we have now. Just imagine the growth and development and experience we have gotten over the last few years, w/out arenas. Now lets just assume he is close to what he was(which he wont be until mid-season) then the league has some problems to worry about. because we beat boston 3 times, we beat LA, cleveland, utah and San Antonio. we have gotten better over the years and i think with hard work we can be a force in the east.

Posted by: mrhney03 | July 24, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

*well said!

I like someone's recent post that talked about the maturing process. Haywood, Jamison, Butler, (Miller too for that matter), seem to be at that peak stage in their careers where they are ripe to maximize the situation. Combining still non-diminished skill, talent, and *wisdom*. Same poster pointed out that GA will do the same as he should be wiser and realize his mortality as a player thus making him more of a all-around team player when he gets back, which could very easily make up for anything he may have lost due to injury. If indeed, he has lost anything.

Pfunk,

The "bread and butter" for the finals run for Orlando this past season was Hedu.

Also, whomever was arguing that Flip can't coach defense or won't improve this defense is most likely going to proven wrong. I was under the assumption that Flip was an "offensive" coach as well, but, Kal, pointed out to me a long time ago his use of matchup zones etc... to make the T-Wolves a decent defensive team when they had not much more than Garnett for defensive assets. Flip, is a better coach all-around than EJ will ever be. He is the final piece as to why I am excited about this upcoming season!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 24, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Not trying to wade too deeply into the BTH / ET / Dalembert debate because I missed the front end, but here's what I remember.

Haywood was taken ahead of Dalembert primarily because he came from a better program and had played on teams that had gone deep into the NCAAs, played a high level of competition, etc, so was viewed as more of a known commodity.

The knocks on Haywood, even at UNC, were that he was tempermental and gave very inconsistent effort. He could dominate one night, disappear the next -- I'm a Tar Heel fan and he used to drive me nuts. That continued (as we probably all remember) well into his tenure with the Wiz. He was also viewed as playing very soft on D and on the glass.

I *think* when their contracts came up, Dalembert was viewed as more athletic and someone who played with a bit more positive attitude. Foggy memory here, but I also want to say that they had just had good success for a few years with Theo Ratliff and were looking for a similar player.

With Etan versus Haywood, I want to say that it came down to ET being viewed as a rugged, but slightly undersized player who played hard all the time, versus BTH, who though more physically gifted (especially bigger), didn't play hard. I think that was part of why Ernie resigned Etan, because they still weren't sold on Haywood. Haywood really didn't seem to get his game together until Etan was out of the picture.

Sorry if I'm covering well-trod ground, just trying to remember how it went down.

Posted by: ts35 | July 24, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

It you are truly a Wiz fan and don't see this offseason as an A+ for this franchise, well, I don't know what to say. EG has added Miller, Foye, Oberto, and a top tier coach to go along with the return of Arenas and Haywood. We subtracted not much of anything in Pech, Etan, Sonagalia, and the 5th pick except some bad contracts and another player to develop in a weak draft. Alright, I will miss Songalia somewhat as he would be a useful player, but the T'Wolves were smart enough not to bit on that.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 24, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

I hope our point guards have been working on their back-to-the-basket game. Looking around the Eastern Conference and at our main rivals in particular, there seems to be a serious lack of size at the PG position. Our PG's are two to five inches taller and 25 to 40 pounds heavier than Mo Williams/Jameer Nelson/Rajon Rondo. Sam Cassell was an excellent post player for a PG-- I hope he is teaching GA, JC, and RF how to exploit their size advantage.

Posted by: yop32 | July 24, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Abe Pollin has won an NBA title and his teams have been to 4 NBA Finals.
His teams have made the playoffs 25 times and missed them 20 times.

Posted by: jeremybozz | July 24, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

divi3,

So Shaq was signed to help take questions in the press conferences away from LeBron? What?

I think Cleveland needed something other than Shaq. Maybe he will put them over the top, but I have to see it. I think he is too old and going to cold Cleveland for half the season is not going to help out his aching large body any.

I am not saying Cleveland is not going to be in the "mix" still. LeBron plus whomever will be good bc he is in the MJ class of talent. I just don't see any drastic improvement with Shaq on the team. They are still the large *slow* team plus LeBron that Orlando exploited in the Conference Finals!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 24, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

rphilli721,

You can bet Lebron wanted Shaq to be signed, and not because he thinks Shaq is going to bring 25/9 every night. The Cavs lockeroom sucked, it was Lebron and the Stiffs. There is defintely something to be said for the attitude, personality, etc that Shaq will bring to that team.

They won 60+ games, aren't looking for huge statistical improvement imo, more about creating a championship atmosphere....one that cant exist when 1 guy scores or assists every single bucket in the 4th quarter of a playoff game.

And yes, Shaq's buffoonery taking some of the spotlight off of James will also help

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Shaq could hurt or help Lebron. It might be tuff for the 2 of them to share the spotlight.
I think Labron will be watching his p's & q's dealing with Shaq and I don't think he's used to doing that.
Might be fun to watch them deal with each other.

Posted by: VBFan | July 24, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

it's lebron's team. he won't have to watch anyone's Ps and Qs. that being said, Lebron is a great teammate by all accounts. he's as unselfish a player as there is in the game right now, and he does nothing but enhance the talents of the players around him.shaq and bron will be fine. i'd worry more about gil re-meshing with Caron and Metawn who've become accustomed to increased shooting/scoring opportunities . when we were successfull tawn knew his place was next to Gil at best, it'll be interesting to see if he takes a step back or gil falls back.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 24, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

speaking of shaq's antics:

One of the Junks mentioned the Shaq experiment in Phoenix.

"How'd that work out in Phoenix?" Saunders asked rhetorically. "It's totally different when you have a center that's in the paint all the time, because there's someone there always for help. They've always played their best, in Cleveland, when they've had the ability to spread the floor and have openings for LeBron."

So Wise conveyed these general sentiments, with perhaps a little more enthusiasm, to Shaq.

"Flip Saunders should have said what I did to him when I busted his ass earlier," Shaq replied, more or less. "I remember all comments, I'm taking all comments. I'll see him very soon. Keep after Haywood, keep after McGee, because I'm coming."

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

McGee will dunk over shaq

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 24, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Grande Fabri!! Me alegro que te quedes en la NBA, creo que Washington es una buena opción, vas a tener muchos minutos y si Arenas y Jamison están bien se puede llegar lejos.
Oberto is the best center of the team. Is a complete player... defense, rebounds and good shoot when is necesary... and is natural winner, with the Spurs and Argentina!


Posted by: gerice | July 24, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

I think this is a good pickup for the Wizards, especially considering some of the deadweight they were considering (Magloire, May).

Posted by: OffseasonChamps
-------------------------------------------

Well, Magloire seems to be a better rebounder than Oberto. Last season, Oberto averaged 2.6p/2.6/r in 12.5 minutes while Magloire averaged 2.9p/4b in 12.9 minutes. Even in 07-08, when Oberto averaged 20 minutes a game, he only averaged 5 rebounds.

However, Oberto is a better assit guy (but not as good as Songaila).

Posted by: sagaliba | July 24, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Abe Pollin has won an NBA title and his teams have been to 4 NBA Finals.
His teams have made the playoffs 25 times and missed them 20 times.

Posted by: jeremybozz | July 24, 2009 3:13 PM

I'm not sure what your point here is, jeremybozz, but talk about damning with faint praise . . . .The problem with your numbers is that the championship and all four finals appearances came in the '70s. In the 31 years since the franchise's NBA title, they've essentially been the L.A. Clippers East, with brief periods of competence surrounded by years of mediocrity. And the blame for this starts with Pollin, who has been the franchise's only constant throughout the years. And the fact that theyve made the playoffs more than they've missed them is virtually meaningless. So many teams qualify in the NBA that it's actually a disgrace if you don't make the playoffs. In fact, in some of those playoff years, the team actually had a losing record.

Posted by: rbpalmer | July 24, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

Abe was not the only constant...we also had Wes...One of only two players ever to be mvp and rookie of the year in the same year...and was not so good at gm-ing

Posted by: Blurred | July 24, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully Oberto will never come off the bench. McGee and Blatche need to play. This team is not winning this year. They will be respectful with 40 to 45 wins if healthy. In 2yrs when Gil, Young, McGuire, Blatche and McGee are the starters with Haywood, Jamison, Foye, Miller coming off the bench then we stand a chance. I believe Caron will leave or be traded. Also, Haywood and Jamison will have to accept their rolls.

Posted by: rnbrown4 | July 24, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

lilhollywood i'd worry more about gil re-meshing with Caron and Metawn who've become accustomed to increased shooting/scoring opportunities . when we were successfull tawn knew his place was next to Gil at best, it'll be interesting to see if he takes a step back or gil falls back.

---------------

What I remember Antawn saying when Gil did come back last season is "he makes us go." He seemed utterly refreshed in having his point gaurd back to push things. He had to do less work. The three of them together are so great, and Gil has worked on a number of weaknesses since his absence, particularly: passing. Uh, oh! Look out!

Posted by: jistutz | July 24, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Gil Arenas-2009-10 -Come Back Player of the Year. All Star Starter along side D Wade. Book it.

Posted by: ptp23 | July 24, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

What I dont get is why Oberto is being spoken of as a savvy vet who will push Mcgee and Blatche, defend well, etc, etc, etc

The guy has not averaged 5pts a night at any stage in his career, blocks virtually no shots whatsoever, and is a bad FT shooter. If he is pushing AB and Javale for minutes....what would that say about them??

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2009 1:54 PM

---------------------------

There's more to contributing on offense and defense than filling out a stat sheet. There's no stat category for picks, help defense, and proper spacing. If a player is out of position and lets an opponent drive the lane there's no stat category that indicates the person just blew an assignment and gave the opponent an easy basket. On offense if a player doesn't have great court awareness and lets teammates gets trapped or misses opportunities to set picks, there's no stat to catch those lapses (the closest is an indirect one like plus/minus).

The Spurs didn't hold onto him, so that says something perhaps. But Mike Wells didn't exactly tell the EG to forget about the selection either.

The money at stake too isn't starter money.

If Oberto does end up pushing AB and McGee for minutes it could be for any number of reasons (e.g. the coach thinks he might be a better option on defense and doesn't need another scorer on offense; maybe the coach goes with him because he's familiar with a particular opponent and knows that opponent's tendencies).

Posted by: JPRS | July 24, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Found this interesting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=4352887&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

Especially the mention of JaVale------

Durant, along with Andre Iguodala and Jeff Green, is now back for his third consecutive summer of practices with the so-called Select Team, and his familiarity and comfort level with the Team USA system were superior to that of anyone else on the court Thursday. Others who caught the coaches' eyes included Rudy Gay, Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon and JaVale McGee, and several team insiders said they were surprised how spry Greg Oden looked.

Posted by: VBFan | July 24, 2009 8:35 PM | Report abuse

I agree with JPRS. Oberto should be a big help in defending half court sets. I usually hate Ernie's free agent signings but this could be a really good one. And it's nice to see the Wizards spend some money for a need instead of coasting. I guess the organization's professed desire to compete isn't all lip service.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 24, 2009 8:45 PM | Report abuse

USA Today report on Gilbert Arenas...

—G Gilbert Arenas is moving very well in the random pickup games organized by Caron Butler. He has taken to guarding Butler, and the two are battling at a high level, an indication that Arenas could finally be approaching full strength.

Posted by: bozomoeman | July 24, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Who is better Rasho Nesterovic or Fabricio Oberto? And why did Ernie pick Oberto over Rasho?

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 25, 2009 7:01 AM | Report abuse

oddjob2,

Interesting question. Saunders coached Nesterovic in Minnesota, so maybe that was a factor for either the player, the coach, or both in going a different directions.

My best guess is that EG/Saunders figured that their current three options at center (Haywood, McGee, AB) are as good or better than Nesterovic offensively, but that Oberto might be a better situational defender.

Maybe there were some other intangibles that they liked.

Perhaps Nesterovic just really, really likes the city of Toronto and the Wizards weren't willing to spend the extra money necessary to lure him away.

Posted by: JPRS | July 25, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Nesterovic and Oberto are completely different types of players.

On D, Nesterovic uses his size. Oberto uses activity and sneakiness.

On O, Nesterovic stands around on the perimeter while teammates use him as a screener and can knock down a midrange shot if his defender leaves him alone. Oberto runs around setting picks and makes cuts towards the basket.

Nesterovic is a lesser version of Zydrunas Ilgauskas- big and slow. Oberto is a lesser version of Anderson Verejao- active, sneaky, and irritating.

Posted by: yop32 | July 25, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

The Gil news is a lot more important then the Oberto signing.

Rumor is that Nesterovic signing with Toronto is just a formality waiting to happen. I think he would have required dipping into the MLE to sign.

Ernie may not use MLE, but right now it's a potential chip to use that he's still got on the table. Ernie won't throw away a chip before he's finished playing his hand.

NY seems determined to try and wait out Lee and try and force him to sign a 1 yr qualifing offer. As the summer moves on, will Lee be willing to sign a 5 year deal for the full MLE with max increases, instead of a one year qualifing offer?

If he's given an escape clause after a couple of years, that type of offer could appear sweet enough for him to consider taking.
Or would the Knicks be willing to talk sign and trade? Ernie's still retaining the chips to make a run at Lee.

Will he? probably not, but the Oberto signing for the Veteran exception gives Ernie a couple of avenues to still make a run at another player.

I'd say the continued evaluation of Blatche by the new staff will be a key part in that decision. Ernie won't give up on Blatche unless Flip says the potential is just a false hope, and what you see is what you get.

If Flip says give up on him, I need a backup at the 4, everything changes. Right now Flip and the staff seem very positive about Blatche. Teams with new coaching staffs, have been known to do that when they're trying to move a "potential" guy.

Blatche, if he taps into his potential, would seem to have a higher upside then Lee. Flip's the guy that's got to decide if he can get consistant performance out of the kid.

Lee would fit more into a win now approach.

Since NY seems to want to maintain max cap flexibility, a Mike James & Blatche for Lee deal isn't out of the realm of the possible. Particularly if the Wiz would ship off a future #1 draft pick in the mix.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 25, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Nelson who looked like trash in the finals? That Jameer Nelson? I know he was injured but who is to say he comes back and plays out of his mind like he did first half of last season? Jameer Nelson the PG who didn’t even handle the ball in crunch time? He can score but the offense ran through Hedo. Is Nelson’s game going to change now? Did anyone really consider Orlando a contender before last season?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 24, 2009 2:24 PM


OK, I see. So with Jameer Nelson we should talk a worst case scenario.

But with Gil, we should assume his 3 knee surgeries are behind him and he's gonna come back in All-Star form. Not only that, he's suddenly gonna be able to play defense and move the ball around and be an assists-guy.

I forget...who was up here griping about unbalanced "best/worst case scenarios"?

Posted by: p1funk | July 25, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

listen man i been drinking and smoking all night so please excuse my grammar but heres the thing, if you dont like the wizards you are just stupid..stupid you here!! we got gilbert arenas who is the best point gaurd in maryland, and andre blatch who smokes the best ganja on the east side...and i believe that phlip saunders will win alot of games because he plays zone defense.

good day yall.

Posted by: wizRjizz | July 25, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

can blatche dunk anymore? why all the fingerolls?

btw wizRjizz Greivis is the best pg in MD

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 25, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

"If Oberto's health checks out, I'd be surprised if he doesn't get 8-10 minutes a night as Haywood's primary back-up. If McGee has a great training camp he could work into the primary back-up spot, but I'd wager he doesn't start the season as the primary back-up. He's learning the playbook AND he's still learning the position. Blatche probably serves as Jamison's primary back-up, but will probably see some minutes at the 5 as well"

I'm guessing the minutes at backup center will be divided based on matchup with the particular opponent. Oberto matches up well with certain other players.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 25, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

If Oberto does end up pushing AB and McGee for minutes it could be for any number of reasons (e.g. the coach thinks he might be a better option on defense and doesn't need another scorer on offense; maybe the coach goes with him because he's familiar with a particular opponent and knows that opponent's tendencies).

Posted by: JPRS | July 24, 2009 7:35 PM

If Kevin Sorbo pushes Blatche or Mcgee for minutes it's a very bad indication as to how their development is coming. Oberto is not much of a player, at all, and it surprises me how many people are talking about how much he does for us...while dismissing Rahseed/Shaq moves etc.

One thing about Oberto is certain from this board, he's destined to be a fan favorite!

Posted by: divi3 | July 25, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

If Kevin Sorbo pushes Blatche or Mcgee for minutes it's a very bad indication as to how their development is coming. Oberto is not much of a player, at all, and it surprises me how many people are talking about how much he does for us...while dismissing Rahseed/Shaq moves etc.

One thing about Oberto is certain from this board, he's destined to be a fan favorite!

Posted by: divi3 | July 25, 2009 10:31 AM


Couldn't have said it better myself.

Who would you rather have in your big-man rotation? Shaq/Sheed or Oberto?

And while Shaq/Sheed are supposedly used-up broken-down clunkers who are gonna hurt their teams, somehow EG gets a standing ovation for bringing in a 34-year old with a heart problem who put up 2 rebs and 2 pts. a night. And defense? If you throw Oberto on Shaq/Sheed in the post, I'd say the advantage goes to Shaq/Sheed...

Posted by: p1funk | July 25, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

I would really like to see Haywood's minutes start to average around 30-35 minutes per game.

I still grimace at all them games when Haywood would always be on the cusp of double double games and he would always get pulled.

It was like no matter how well he was playing Eddie would never let him average no more than 20-25 mpg.

From what I have seen of Haywood, he clearly has the stamina for 30-35 mpg, but Eddie in Haywood's last full year would never let him average those mpg for some reason.

We have had a lot of clamoring for Haywood to be a double double tough guy, but if he could have been that with the mpg's he was given, he would be an Allstar. However, I believe that if you increase his mpg to 30-35, he would be that double double tough guy.

Maybe not an Allstar, but certainly a double double guy.

Shaq, and I am not comparing Haywood to him, needed to be pacified when he was with the Lakers. He is famous for saying that the ball had to come inside to Big Dog. All big men have to be pacified to some degree in the gameplan or they will not stay hungry 'sotospeak'.

In Haywoods case, I think he always needed the minutes. Do all of his staunches critics realize that you were criticizing a starting Center who has averaged less than 24 mpg's per game his whole career as a Wizard. They played him less than half a game.

And he is villified because he is not a double double tough guy.

I know in Haywoods point of view, if asked why he isn't a double double guy, he would point to the mpg average.

To me, double double big guys need to play more than just short of half a game to really be a force in this League. And for the bulk of Haywood's career here, there is no reason whatsoever, why he should not have averaged more than half a game playing time.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 25, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Larry, you could say the same thing about Dampier, but I don't hear a lot of people shouting "Free Erick!".

Posted by: djnnnou | July 25, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Didn't some brilliant dude here say that EG was a genius because he knew Rubio wasn't going to be at the 5, and secondly, even if he was, that he wasn't going to leave his Spanish team?

----------------------

Not to my recollection. find a quote.

Posted by: crs-one | July 25, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Larry, you could say the same thing about Dampier, but I don't hear a lot of people shouting "Free Erick!".

Posted by: djnnnou | July 25, 2009 11:47 AM


Haywood and Dampier get their double-doubles off of put-backs, garbage buckets and dribble-penetration-dish-offs. They are not the kinds of centers that you throw the ball to in the post and run the offense through.


We'll never really know why EJ limited BTH's minutes. Maybe he watched him in practice and always believed there was a conditioning issue, maybe he felt pressure to get some production out of Etan with his contract and all. Maybe Etan and Brendan were such insecure babies that splitting their minutes was a way to keep their relative egos in check so as not to destroy team chemistry anymore than they already were...who knows.

Posted by: p1funk | July 25, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Larry, you could say the same thing about Dampier, but I don't hear a lot of people shouting "Free Erick!".

Posted by: djnnnou | July 25, 2009 11:47 AM


Haywood and Dampier get their double-doubles off of put-backs, garbage buckets and dribble-penetration-dish-offs. They are not the kinds of centers that you throw the ball to in the post and run the offense through.


We'll never really know why EJ limited BTH's minutes. Maybe he watched him in practice and always believed there was a conditioning issue, maybe he felt pressure to get some production out of Etan with his contract and all. Maybe Etan and Brendan were such insecure babies that splitting their minutes was a way to keep their relative egos in check so as not to destroy team chemistry anymore than they already were...who knows.

Posted by: p1funk | July 25, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

the ususal...Ernie's spinning wheels to bring us back to where we've already been, and cats think he's brilliant...

Posted by: p1funk | July 24, 2009 9:59 AM

so far we've turned songaila, thomas, pech, rubio, and 2nd round pick into Foye, Miller, and Oberto.

The only one out of the old guard who could have made significant contribution is rubio. Who didn't want to play with washington. who may not even be leaving spain.

that's not giving enough credit to songaila, who i liked, but it sounds like oberto can give us the same intangibles added with a little height.

Foye and miller are projected to make big contributions and oberto a solid backup.

perhaps not brilliance, but they're all good moves.

Posted by: crs-one | July 25, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Good solid moves that work with the players already on the roster.

I don't think a Rubio/Arenas pairing was going to work, but a Arenas/Foye backcourt could be an electric pairing.

Team also badlt needed a three point threat that could play some 2 and 3. Miller could be one off the best in the league.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 25, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

'The only one out of the old guard who could have made significant contribution is rubio.'

there is no evidence rubio could have made any significant impact, in fact i would say he'd have been a project at best. It's very telling that the ONE team rubio worked out for described him as "underwhelming" and drafted tyreke evans instead.

thank goodness ernie didnt fall for the rubio hype, the day menudo is averaging better than 14/4 as foye did last year AND being one of the stronger perimeter defenders out there...is the day we can say 'why'd you do it ernie!'

as wiz fans we should all be very happy with this offseason, foye and miller plus arenas and haywood back make this a completely different team talent-wise.

add to that a coach who regularly wins 50 games and gets to conf finals...and we should all be geeked for the season!

Posted by: divi3 | July 25, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Maryland football will finish with a 2-10 record.

Maryland basketball will finish with a 15-16 record

No NCAA bid

No NIT bid

Carolina Blue - Carolina WHITE - Go Tar Heels - Let's go Tar Heels !

Posted by: hclark1 | July 23, 2009 6:28 PM

Proving yet again the relatively low IQ of your average Carolina fan...most of whom, like this one, didn't even go to UNC.

Gary Williams doesn't have losing teams. And Md football hasn't had a 2 win team in my lifetime.

Pick up a book some time clark1.

Posted by: Barno1 | July 25, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

"As I have stated, the stats for their contract year, Dalembert: 8.2 p/7.5r/1.7b; Haywood: 9.4p/6.8r/1.7b; pretty comparable by most standards."

As as I have stated many times (although not necessarily in this thread): (A) Stats never tell the whole story. (B) Most guys show up in their contract years (but most GMs are smart enough not to base their decisions solely on that).

As I said (and as you've said nothing to dispute) Dalembert showed more more potential for improvement (in part because of greater athleticism and physical attributes) than Haywood, and hat factored into his getting a bigger contract.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 25, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

"Oh yeah by the way, the truth about ET's contract is that he was offered a ridiculous contract by Bucks hoping that Wiz would never match it. We knew for a fact that the contract initially offered by Wiz was less than that because he didn't sign that one."

Which is (like much of what you write in attempting to frame an argument) irrelevant to my point. Whether he got the better offer from the Wiz or someone else, the fact remains, h got a better offer. And he got it in large part because at least one team 9and one is all it takes) believed he had greater potential as a player."

"We would never know if Haywood would have gotten a better deal from other teams, because he signed the contract that was offered by the Wizards."

If Haywood was offered a better deal than what the Wizards offered (A) there almost certainly would have been some reporting of it and (B) there's no reason to think he wouldn't have taken it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 25, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

"First, Kal, 10 mins, 15 mins, 16 mins, who cares?"

I can only assume you do, since you were the one who made such a big deal out of it.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 25, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

"Who is better Rasho Nesterovic or Fabricio Oberto? And why did Ernie pick Oberto over Rasho?"


That assumes that Nesterovic was interested in coming here and Grunfeld didn't want him. Do we know that to be the case? I don't think we do.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 25, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

I find it funny that some of the people riding the Oberto train were the same ones who went after Songaila with torches and pitchforks. Oberto is essentially the same player. The only difference is that Songaila didn't have the luxury of spending the entirety of his career basking in the reflected flow of Tim Duncan.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 25, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

izman: "Comparing players by actual Points Per Minute Played or normalized to Points per 40 Minutes yields the same comparative result.Additionally, as players points per game increase after a few years, it is almost always due to more minutes (i.e., more minutes contribute to more than 80% of the outcome of more points per game)."

Problem: there's a tremendous difference between playing 15 minutes a game (and missing some games entirely) and starting and playing thirty-plus minutes a game, over the course of an entire season.

The numbers don't capture that. That's why it's not terribly helpful to compare limited-role backups with starters. It may not be apples and oranges, but it's Galas and Granny Smiths.
Posted by: Samson151 | July 24, 2009 10:24 AM

Add to that the (what should be obvious) fact that simply scoring more points doesn't neessarily make a guy a better player.

Furthermore, stating that more minutes equals more points is the ultimate in "d'uh" reasoning. The more salient issue is that the increase in points is not usually directly proportional to the increase in time played, so taking a guy who plays 12 minutes per game and charting his production out over 48 minutes tells you nothing of real value because if he were actually to play 48 mpg, there's little to no chance that his production would increase four-fold across the board.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 25, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

"What I dont get is why Oberto is being spoken of as a savvy vet who will push Mcgee and Blatche, defend well, etc, etc, etc

The guy has not averaged 5pts a night at any stage in his career, blocks virtually no shots whatsoever, and is a bad FT shooter. If he is pushing AB and Javale for minutes....what would that say about them??

Posted by: divi3 | July 24, 2009 1:54 PM

It would say that they aren't getting the job done and that the Wiz are headed into deep trouble.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 25, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

DraftExpress on Nick and AB.
AB&NY

This came out a couple of days ago, but I haven't seen it posted here.

Posted by: djnnnou | July 25, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

For whatever it's worth, according to Hoopsworld, "Ricky Rubio is about to sign a deal with Real Madrid for the next two seasons, according to Telemadrid."

Posted by: cannontl | July 25, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the post djnnnou, I hadn't seen that yet. It was an interesting read, but sadly told Wizards fans nothing they really didn't already know and Nick and 'Dray.

Posted by: ts35 | July 25, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

"Who is better Rasho Nesterovic or Fabricio Oberto? And why did Ernie pick Oberto over Rasho?"


That assumes that Nesterovic was interested in coming here and Grunfeld didn't want him. Do we know that to be the case? I don't think we do.

Who knows for sure, but I remember reading early on that Rasho had more interest in playing for Toronto. I want to say in part because both the team and the city have a more European flavor, but who knows?

Posted by: ts35 | July 25, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, messing up my formatting today, that second 'graph is Kal's

Posted by: ts35 | July 25, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

To me, double double big guys need to play more than just short of half a game to really be a force in this League. And for the bulk of Haywood's career here, there is no reason whatsoever, why he should not have averaged more than half a game playing time.

LarryInClintonMD.

Etan's contract may have played a part, and certainly Eddie's bad relationship with Haywood played a part. I don't Eddie was getting what he wanted from Haywood in practice or in games. Whether that was warranted or not, who knows?

For my part, I think it was also because there is more to the game than just stats. Etan always played a lot more physically than Haywood, especially in post defense. Haywood would have some nice double-double games....which he would often follow with 3 or 4 rebound efforts in the same minutes. And for a while it looked to me like he felt he deserved minutes whether he earned them or not. I think he has always felt like he should get more scoring opportunities even though he has yet to develop a solid offensive game.

All of that being said, I think he may have turned a bit of a corner two years ago when Etan was out. He got a lot of minutes and he was solid. More importantly, he became more of a team defensive presence that I think they had been hoping for. Here's hoping that's true and he's ready to pick up where he left off, or maybe play even a little better.

JMO

Posted by: ts35 | July 25, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

so far we've turned songaila, thomas, pech, rubio, and 2nd round pick into Foye, Miller, and Oberto.

The only one out of the old guard who could have made significant contribution is rubio. Who didn't want to play with washington. who may not even be leaving spain.

that's not giving enough credit to songaila, who i liked, but it sounds like oberto can give us the same intangibles added with a little height.

Foye and miller are projected to make big contributions and oberto a solid backup.

perhaps not brilliance, but they're all good moves.

Posted by: crs-one | July 25, 2009 12:20 PM

Songaila was an EG signing. Pech was an EG pick, and we all know the story about EG matching the Bucks offer for Etan.

Sorry. In my book you don't get that much credit for taking 2 steps back and then 2 steps forward. Trying to make up for your own bone-headed moves is not "good", it is simply "competent".

Posted by: p1funk | July 25, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

there is some great monday morning quarterbacking going on in the discussion. Is Ernie responsible for predicting undiagnosed medical conditions, future injuries, and precise rates of development of the players? His true tasks are to assess current talent, drive and desire, and identify potential (especially under-rated potential). In any profession such as that, you win some and you lose some. Hopefully your wins exceed your losses. Are there examples of GMs who make only good moves all the time? By the way, it is the in-depth understanding of contracts and salary caps year by year by GMs that ultimately explain their moves, and timing is an essential part. So over-simplified critique based on a player's name and general stats is meaningless.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | July 25, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

"Is Ernie responsible for predicting undiagnosed medical conditions, future injuries, and precise rates of development of the players?"

Undiagnosed medical conditions? No.

Future injuries? Depends on whether there's an existing established history of injuries. If so, then the decision to acquire/keep a player with such a history has to weigh the benefits he brings when healthy against the realistic likelihood that he will be able to remain healthy going forward.

Players' rates of development? Absolutely. In fact, that's one of the primary duties of his job, to evaluate players and determine whether they are or could become the kind of players who could help the Wizards win. That pretty much goes without saying, really.

Grunfeld has done a nice job this offseason, no doubt. But there's also no doubt that he's made his fair share of missteps in previous offseasons. Does the former make up for the latter? Well, to the extent that we can ever know that, we won't really know it at all until the season starts.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 25, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Lets go back to the Bullets already, or have another name contest, having a less retarded name might be the boost our players need.

Posted by: emmet1 | July 25, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

OK, I see. So with Jameer Nelson we should talk a worst case scenario.

But with Gil, we should assume his 3 knee surgeries are behind him and he's gonna come back in All-Star form. Not only that, he's suddenly gonna be able to play defense and move the ball around and be an assists-guy.

I forget...who was up here griping about unbalanced "best/worst case scenarios"?

Actually. Jameer wasn't a worst case scenario. It's realistic. He's not a floor general type PG. The offense routinely ran through Hedo, or through kick outs from Dwight. Who is going to do that now?

With Gil it would be nice if he's healthy. If he's not we won't be worried about Antonio Daniels or Mike James being the replacement. There is some depth. You hear enough worse case on the board already I didnt think I needed to capture the questions of the Wizards. Anytime you change the makeup of a team it has the potential to be disaster. I felt like Orlando was the perfect collection of accidents last season to get to the finals. The slipped by Philly (had a buzzer beater or two if I remember correctly) No KG for Boston, Cleveland having LeBron and the Pips (can anybody make a jumper?) come on how can you rely on the 3 THAT much and expect to win a championship. I was just waiting for them to stop missing. The only game they won in the Finals they had the highest FG % ever or something right? Come on.

And whoever said the Cavs were a bunch of stiffs...they sure didn't seem like it when they were dancing and taking pictures of each other during blow outs...

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Lets go back to the Bullets already

I agree. At least bring back Red, White and Blue...the uniform with the stars is still sick to me. Washington in those colors just makes sense.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

That's unlikely as long as Abe Pollin owns the team, unfortunately.

Posted by: cannontl | July 25, 2009 7:51 PM | Report abuse

That's why I wrote "precise" rate of development. The GM looks for potential and does try to both foresee rate of development (certainly you are correct on that) and also have a plan to accomplish that development. So I'm not arguing because essentially you are commpletely right; but I am saying some players fail to meet expectations. That's case by case how much that might be pinned on the GM. I liked Songaila, but he was a case of what you see is what you get; he didn't develop much further, but he filled a role. Etan was on the upswing when re-signed, and it could be argued he would have gotten better. Ernie met the offer in my opinion because the avg center you know is better than the avg center you don't know, and Haywood and Thomas seemed like a good tandem on paper, although chemistry didn't work. I don't think there was a bad move worth second guessing there. Pecherov was a typical chance taken at that point in the draft. Neither a stunningly good or bad move. About what you would expect at that point in the draft. So I'll make the case that just because you eventually trade players like these, that is no reflection at all on whether they were mistakes at the time they were originally signed. Teams are rarely made of 12 allstars, and in all sports, there are only 2 or 3 cities that can support that in the few cases where it has been approached.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | July 25, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Hakim Warrick is available. The Grizz's best outcome is a sign and trade. Send them Mike James to back up the Answer.

Posted by: mabkhar | July 25, 2009 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Songaila was an EG signing. Pech was an EG pick, and we all know the story about EG matching the Bucks offer for Etan.

Sorry. In my book you don't get that much credit for taking 2 steps back and then 2 steps forward. Trying to make up for your own bone-headed moves is not "good", it is simply "competent".

Posted by: p1funk | July 25, 2009 5:27 PM

-Songaila was a very productive (albeit not on the stat sheet) role player when there was a full team around him
-Pech was a second round draft pick, low risk, high potential. he didn't hurt us on the floor and with his salary off the books, didn't hurt our pocketbooks. It was a risk that didn't pan out, but didn't damage, so I say it was worth taking.
-Etan. I give you Etan.

Regardless, that thing in your book about giving credit isn't realistic. Every GM is going to take manage some risks, some will pan out, others won't; most of them are stuck with the ones that don't. It's hard to predict the future, but it's even harder to get someone else to take on dead weight after it's already proven itself as such.

Again as an aside, Songaila was the only one who wasn't dead weight and I wish we could have kept him and still get what we did out of it.

Posted by: crs-one | July 25, 2009 11:56 PM | Report abuse

p1funk writes: Trying to make up for your own bone-headed moves is not "good", it is simply "competent".

Well, ok. The Wizards are competent now, and that is good. They made it to the playoffs when they were not competent, so you've got to like their chances now.

Posted by: satchmore | July 26, 2009 12:04 AM | Report abuse

crs-one: Pech was a first round pick...

Posted by: aepstein8 | July 26, 2009 12:38 AM | Report abuse

Pech was indeed a non-lottery 1st round pick.

EG found good value in McGuire, and Blatche. Young could turn out to be a good player. McGee could be a steal at 18 overall.

Trades for Butler and Jamison both were good nets for the organization.

The original Arenas signing was a net-plus.

Even moves like the Stevenson, Songaila, and Daniels signings were OK (e.g. fairly marginal moves where the team has received some value in return).

The only real bust is the Etan Thomas contract.

The verdict is still out on the current Arenas contract -- we'll see.

In his time as a GM though, EG has made more good moves than bad ones.

Pech in particular I see as a weak case against Grunfeld. How often does the 18th pick in the first round turn into a star, or for that matter a starter?

Most teams are happy if the player just becomes a part of the regular rotation.

The fact that EG passed on Joel Freeland, Mardy Collins, Maurice Ager, Quincy Dooby, Kyle Lowery, Sergio Rodriguez, Renaldo Balkman, Marcus Williams, Jordan Farmer, Josh Boone, Rajon Rondo, et al to get Pech says pretty much nothing. At most it says that occasionally a very good to great player or two or even three might drop outside of the lottery.

Posted by: JPRS | July 26, 2009 1:01 AM | Report abuse

"That's why I wrote "precise" rate of development. "

You wrote precise development in the hopes that using an over-the-top qualifier would somehow curtail the fairly obvious and easy rebuttal to your point. Didn't work. No one is suggesting a GM has to predict the exact day, hour, and minute a player will blossom, but accurately predicting whether a player will, in fact, blossom is undeniably a central part of his job. When he makes the wrong prediction, he's failed to do his job. That's not a condemnation. People fail all the time. It comes with being human. But a failure is still a failure.

"I liked Songaila, but he was a case of what you see is what you get; he didn't develop much further, but he filled a role."

Songaila wasn't brought here as a developmental player. he was, in fact, brought to fill a role, a role he was very capable of filling. Problem was that injuries and failures of other players required him to try and fill a role he really wasn't suited for. That wasn't his fault.

"Pecherov was a typical chance taken at that point in the draft. Neither a stunningly good or bad move."

First of all, it was a stunningly bad pick because (A) the guy simply did not appear capable of playing at the NBA level and (B) several of the players taken after him have proven to be more than capable. Second, his draft position hardly excuses the fact that he was a bust. There's a long list of players taken at Pech's spot and well below who have gone on to become solid contributors and even All-Stars. The suggestion that player taken in the mid-late teens is somehow expected to be a bust is rubbish. Again, it's the GM's job to get it right. Is he going to get it right all the time? Of course not. But when he fails to get it right, he's done a bad job.


"Teams are rarely made of 12 allstars, and in all sports, there are only 2 or 3 cities that can support that in the few cases where it has been approached."

An observation both true and completely irrelevant. No one said that the GM had to pack the team with all-stars. But it is his job to fill the team with guys who can actually play and contribute to a successful season. Grunfeld has failed to meet that standard with several of his past choices.

"The fact that EG passed on Joel Freeland, Mardy Collins, Maurice Ager, Quincy Dooby, Kyle Lowery, Sergio Rodriguez, Renaldo Balkman, Marcus Williams, Jordan Farmer, Josh Boone, Rajon Rondo, et al to get Pech says pretty much nothing."

On the contrary. It says that a lot of other GMs got it right while Grunfeld got it wrong.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 26, 2009 2:26 AM | Report abuse

this is turning into a very good blog. Lots of the posters are thoughtful, intelligent, and insightful- kinda makes you wonder why their spending their intellectual talents on something as trivial yet enjoyable as basketball. Awesome:-) It seems that posters with this type of attitude are slowly taking over the old Bullets/Wizards attitude which was bizarrely self-hating! I've never seen so many "fans" of a team being utterly cynical and self-hating! Amazing! Keep up with the good thought, y'all.

Posted by: jistutz | July 26, 2009 2:51 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, the red, white, and blue with the short shorts...lol. Have to agree they were sick uniforms though! Maybe do something like the Caps and take that concept and modernize it slightly!

Kal, have to say you response made me literally laugh out loud. Good one.

Ultimately, if your a fan of this team and want to gripe about where it stands at the moment as far as talent, coaching, and upper management, I don't know what to say really. It's the best shape this franchise has been in in decades.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 26, 2009 2:56 AM | Report abuse

Kal, as far as EG goes. Yeah, your mostly right, but no GM gets it right all the time and EG does have a keen eye for talent. Do you get it right more than you get it wrong is the key. And, EG gets it right more than most especially later in the draft where it becomes more and more of a crap shoot. His biggest mistakes have been in a few contracts and I'm not sure how much those decisions were his or those of his bosses/Abe.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 26, 2009 3:21 AM | Report abuse

Yeah I was thinking making the red white and blue more modern would be a great idea...especially if they can incorporate the stars.

If I remember correctly. It felt like the Pecherov and Veermenko picks were forced. It felt to me like they wanted to draft someone and stick them overseas for a couple seasons because the team was pretty much set. I hope Pech does well in Minnesota. What about Veeremenko? What's going on with him? And how was Gil's workout with Grover?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 26, 2009 3:49 AM | Report abuse

If Oberto does end up pushing AB and McGee for minutes it could be for any number of reasons (e.g. the coach thinks he might be a better option on defense and doesn't need another scorer on offense; maybe the coach goes with him because he's familiar with a particular opponent and knows that opponent's tendencies).

Posted by: JPRS | July 24, 2009 7:35 PM

If Kevin Sorbo pushes Blatche or Mcgee for minutes it's a very bad indication as to how their development is coming. Oberto is not much of a player, at all, and it surprises me how many people are talking about how much he does for us...while dismissing Rahseed/Shaq moves etc.

One thing about Oberto is certain from this board, he's destined to be a fan favorite!

Posted by: divi3 | July 25, 2009 10:31 AM

--------------------------------

The 'Sheed and Shaq moves are definitely more consequential than the Oberto signing. They also represent a huge financial commitment -- doubly so for a team already in the tax. Of course all things being equal I'd take 'Sheed or Shaq over Oberto every time. Most people probably would. If the Wiz passed up the chance to sign 'Sheed or Shaq for $1.9 mill, I'd scratch my head too. Conversely if the Wiz were paying Oberto $20 mill. this year plus tax; or the mid-level exception for the next two years plus the tax, I'd probably wonder what they were doing.

At $1.9 mill. for Oberto plus the penalty, the Wiz are taking a safe calculated risk. At that price range, his signing represents almost no risk to the team.

Whether he becomes a fan favorite, we'll see. In the beginning of the season though, I would not be surprised to see him getting some PT as part of the regular rotation. I figure if Oberto gets 8-10 mins. this year when a guy like Ruffin was averaging 16 mins. during the 2004-05 season -- that's progress. If Blatche and McGee take their games to another level and Oberto is relegated to spot duty, that's even better. If Blatche and McGee struggle, then there's a veteran who can give the team some regular minutes for short-spans without hurting the team. We'll see how things go.

Posted by: JPRS | July 26, 2009 4:24 AM | Report abuse

Sadly, the jury is still out on Pech. He hasnt proven to be a bust. He hasnt been given enough minutes yet.

Posted by: original_mark | July 26, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

anyone see the team usa basketball scrimmage? if so anyone know if javele did anything?

Posted by: jasonma1 | July 26, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Sadly, the jury is still out on Pech. He hasnt proven to be a bust. He hasnt been given enough minutes yet.

Posted by: original_mark | July 26, 2009 9:16 AM

Agreed. It is amazing how so many conclude that Peck was a failure. I too hope if given a chance he proves that he really is a player.

But, the whole deal with Peck points to what I've said all along on this blog is how important coaching is.

Too many times we color our comments just based on the player. And we overlook the importance of coaching and organizational development.

Everybody remember Peter John Ramos. To me Ramos was better than Jorge Muresan but Muresan got a chance to play and Ramos did not. Why?

I absolutely believe that Peter John Ramos would have been better as a backup Center than always trying to force feed forwards to play center that failed time and time again at center. I would have give Peter John Ramos the time on the court to prove one way or another whether he could play back up center for me. Probably would only have taken 5-10 minutes per game. How much time did we spend trying to use ETAN and DSON at center.

I know the coach makes evauluations in practice on whom to play, but it has to go deeper than that. If somebody in your organization thought enough to sign an individual to a pro contract, at some point that individual has to be given real sufficient Pro gametime to fail or succeed.

I remember many years ago, I had a chance to coach a little league Team, because the coach got sick. My cousin from Philly had never played baseball and I did not know that. So I figured since every kid had a least seen the game and knew how to catch, I put him at first base and he did not know where to even stand. I was so frustrated and embarassed, I did not coach the Team.

Maybe I would have been a dog as a coach, but what I regret most is not showing my cousin where to play and giving him a chance to show whether he could do anything or not.

I often think of that when I see coaches like Jordan who had no patience with players and never gave them time to fail/succeed.

You see my little cousin did not fail, I did. Coaches like Jordan and Tapscott think they are showing coaching expertize by not putting players on the floor whom they deem not ready, are really the failures, and not Ramos, and Pech, and Haywood, and Blatch, and McGee, and Young.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | July 26, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Darious has great hands, was the only big on the team who could cut to the hoop and receive the pass every time without fumbling. Superior player to the Obertos, Ruffins, etc out there- no doubt.

But he was never the same after the back surgery...you could see it just walking next to him. He looked like a 50yr old man.

Cant fault EG for that, and hopefully Darious gets some nice production in Minny.

Pech was a terrible, pick. One time at 1:00am in Georgetown I was catching a cab in the pouring ran and saw him standing on the corner, soaking wet and clueless, looking every bit like a lost puppy. He was really an overwhelmed kid when he got here, visions of Dirk 2.0 on Ernie part were delusional.

Maybe it pans out for him, but he was just way too young and lost to develop quickly enough to help our team, and I do pin that on the GM.

Posted by: divi3 | July 26, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

...Hakim Warrick--dont understand why he was released. Seems like a solid rotation player up front at 6'9" 220, in his 4th year, so still reasonably cheap at $3-4M. Would be nice if the Wiz had the room to sign him and see him blossom fully.

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 26, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

I agree to a point, but little league is far different from professional sports.

At this level either you can cut it or you can't. Coaches are supposed to win games. If a player has made that level without the proper skill level and doesn't improve himself enough to warrant playing time. Sit him on the bench. This is not the level to spoon feed players time on the court. Should Taps have played McGee more during blowouts? Probably.

They get paid millions to do what most of us would do for free. They don't deserve anything. None of us know the practice habits or personal will to get better of any of the young guys, but we do know that McGuire took it upon HIMSELF to get better.

That's what professionals do.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 26, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

excellent last point about the personal will. That relates to my earlier point about "precise" development rate. Fans have little idea of the personal drive, except what we hear. Coaches have much more informed ideas, and an attentive GM should too. As we hear it, MJ was NOT attentive, Ernie you have to figure has gotta be.

From what we hear, Kwame had low drive, McGuire worked hard, Blatche is questionable, Gil was a no brainer (1 am shooting drills where he let himself in the arena with his own key? Come on, even I could have figured that one out). But the trickiness comes from that drive being variable with maturity. Sometimes you have to wait the 2 years of immaturity until things click, and that is part of what a GM is guestimating. Haywood took a while to really mature. Blatche is still very young and the reports are that he is changing this summer for the better.

It's an interesting point about reaching the professional level and whether a player deserves regular game floor time to grow. That's why I like thew development league, although the Wizards don't seem to use it much.

I like the story of Kwame eating KFC every night when he got to DC, because it was his first time away from home. That's why I always had a soft spot rooting for Kwame to succeed; he reached the NBA far too young.

Posted by: ragtop4spd | July 26, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Head Coaches are paid to win games.
They play who they feel gives them the best chance to win.
Assistant Coaches and the Player Development person need to take the young guys under their wings and help them to get better. It's a long season and it would be easy to forget about a marginal player and let him stagnate but it's the teams that can make marginal players into regular contributors that are successful. It's a win-win.

Head coaches should insist on someone taking the rookies and showing them how to make it in the NBA on & off the court. Just because someone has the talent to get drafted and make an NBA team does not mean that they know what it takes to progress and help themselves and help their team win. They come into the league usually being the best player on all the teams that they ever played for and the NBA is a new experience for them.

Posted by: VBFan | July 26, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

The last move Ernie needs to make is trade D-stevenson , M-james & D-mcguire to Detroit for R-hamilton who gives u everthing all 3 of these guys give u except the rebounding of mcguire. He scores better than M-james & defends like D-stevenson & he does this every game. U never know what you're going to get from those other guys from game to game. Detroit has been trying to replace anyway with Iverson & now Gordon. He knows the system & could teach nick a lot. Move M-miller to the 3 behind Caron & get a healthy Arenas to play team ball & we'll enjoy the best season around here since the 70's.

Posted by: DC-fan | July 26, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

"Back off of DCMAN88, we aren't moronic herds of sheep like other cities fans. We are the legendary fans of DC who call it like it is and even when we disagree, welcome critical opinions because its a valuable check to make sure our beloved Bullets are genuinely heading in the right direction and that we are not simply drinking the kool-aid.

Posted by: emmet1 | July 24, 2009 1:01 AM "

Whatever....legend in your own mind.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 26, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

"Hey guys, back of DCMAN88, he's gotta get ready to go work at McDonalds. It's hard for High School kids to find good summer jobs these days. Don't eat too many nuggets DCMAN!

Posted by: PrisonBalls00 | July 24, 2009 6:39 AM "

Your moms is the one eating nuggets...two of them be mine.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 26, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

P.S. all 3 players have only 1 year left on their contracts.

Posted by: DC-fan | July 26, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

"It is amazing how so many conclude that Peck was a failure."

Well that's because he just is. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 26, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

"Well that's because he just is. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 26, 2009 4:19 PM "

Another EG draft pick and/or FA acquisition bites the dust.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 26, 2009 6:49 PM | Report abuse

ESPN Insider report on McGee with Team USA:

JaVale McGee: His length and shot-blocking prowess stood out, especially because that latter component has been conspicuously absent from the Americans' arsenal. Still, he's a long-term project at the bottom of the big man pecking order for now.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 26, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

The Wiz have had a pretty good offseason so far, from significantly upgrading the coaching staff, to getting Foye and Miller, and adding big man depth.

I have also seen the positive influence of our new coaching staff in our improved Summer League play.

The Wiz have probably done as well as any team in the league this offseason, except for maybe SA.

Good job EG!

Posted by: cannontl | July 26, 2009 8:50 PM | Report abuse

"Who is better Rasho Nesterovic or Fabricio Oberto? And why did Ernie pick Oberto over Rasho?

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 25, 2009 7:01 AM "

LMAO.

EG did not pick Oberto over Rasho.

Oberto picked Les BouleS as a last resort when the Spurs signed Theo Ratliff.

Rasho said he wants to return to Toronto.

EG was left with rotting fruit in the barrel.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 26, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

"The Wiz have probably done as well as any team in the league this offseason, except for maybe SA.

Good job EG!

Posted by: cannontl | July 26, 2009 8:50 PM "

Which league? The And 1 league?

LOL!

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 26, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

crs-one: Pech was a first round pick...

Posted by: aepstein8 | July 26, 2009 12:38 AM

well, crap. nevermind then.

Posted by: crs-one | July 26, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

yahoo sports is reporting that Lamar Odom is favoring the heat (d. wade lobbying his a** off) over the lakers. again, another conference opponent is getting off their a** and atleast trying to bring bonafide talent to their roster.I know the wiz are too cheap to try and get Odom (even though they got all that money in the draft day trades) but they could atleast try to get somone with real game. Odom will present numerous options and can play all 5 positions at 6-11. I think I read that Haslem (solid player who always steps up) is also available, although that sit may have changed by now. like many of you loyal fans I will be on pins and needles all season hoping that none of the big 4 goes down (3 allstars plus Haywood) to injury. I like both Foye and Miller, however the wiz really missed a gem in Steph Curry. Golden St. is ecstatic that they landed him and another guard was the least of their needs. later!

Posted by: jenksredskins | July 26, 2009 10:53 PM | Report abuse

"yahoo sports is reporting that Lamar Odom is favoring the heat (d. wade lobbying his a** off) over the lakers. again, another conference opponent is getting off their a** and atleast trying to bring bonafide talent to their roster.I know the wiz are too cheap to try and get Odom (even though they got all that money in the draft day trades) but they could atleast try to get somone with real game. Odom will present numerous options and can play all 5 positions at 6-11. I think I read that Haslem (solid player who always steps up) is also available, although that sit may have changed by now. like many of you loyal fans I will be on pins and needles all season hoping that none of the big 4 goes down (3 allstars plus Haywood) to injury. I like both Foye and Miller, however the wiz really missed a gem in Steph Curry. Golden St. is ecstatic that they landed him and another guard was the least of their needs. later!

Posted by: jenksredskins | July 26, 2009 10:53 PM "

If Les BouleS sign Odom, that would be admitting that the AB experiment is over and that EG is once again a moron for throwing $14 mil at AB after he got arrested for prostitution coupled with a sub mediocre career here.

Oh wait....

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 26, 2009 11:08 PM | Report abuse

If Les BouleS sign Odom, that would be admitting that the AB experiment is over and that EG is once again a moron for throwing $14 mil at AB after he got arrested for prostitution coupled with a sub mediocre career here.

Oh wait....

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 26, 2009 11:08 PM

I agree with your point, and although I like AB (mainly out of loyalty to the wiz) if him being gone would bring Lamar it would be a done deal getting the 30 yr old.

Posted by: jenksredskins | July 26, 2009 11:22 PM | Report abuse

btw, for all you Pech fans out there you must be dreaming. the guy was allegic to the paint!

Posted by: jenksredskins | July 26, 2009 11:27 PM | Report abuse

mis-spelled allergic for pech. don't beat me up.

Posted by: jenksredskins | July 26, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Cathcing up on some points made above:

1. Curry will be a decent player but I believe Foye will match or exceed his numbers this season and over the long haul... which means that getting Foye and Miller together will go down as a fine deal for EG. Foye was the key to this deal.

2. Oberto is essentially an insurance policy against a slowdown in JVM's learning curve. Rasho took the same money to go to Toronto, a city he knows and prefers, where he will be a bona fide back-up in the rotation to Bargnani and Bosh. And whoever said that 8 minutes of Oberto in 2009-10 vs 16 minutes of Ruffin in 2005-6, that sums up the talent difference pretty well.

3. I like a lot of things about Hakim Warrick but he is essentially AJ Lite and that is not what the Wizards need. No question he will find work (for example, replacing Charlie Villanueva in Milwaukee).

4. Rip Hamilton? Not at this stage. Foye and Young will cover that skill set.

5. At this point, I think the Wizards will go with 14 players under contract. Mike James's expiring deal is money in the bank for spending in January or February when he could be packaged with whoever has proven serviceable but redundant (from among, say, Young, Miller, Blatche, Stevenson, McGuire) to get a big puzzle piece (e.g. Battier) from a lottery-bound team.

Posted by: khrabb | July 27, 2009 8:12 AM | Report abuse

To expect that a successful GM will be 100% correct in all his decisions is almost akin to expecting a good MLB player to hit 1.000 all year long. It ain't going to happen.

Sometimes for a GM you have to make lemonade out of lemons, like when Mitch Kupchek traded for Kwame Brown and then parlayed that bad decsion into Paul Gasol.

The focus on the negative so much so as to not being able to see anything positive can sometimes seem like a difference of opinion, but usually means there are other issues with individual involved.

Posted by: cannontl | July 27, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

"Germaine O’Neal is often given as the example of a guy who improved tremendously after a few years in the league...Turns out that Portland didn’t play him and Indy did. The Per 40 (or per minute) figures showed he was pretty good if given a chance.Posted by: Izman"

Which suggests that he was about as good in his first and second seasons as he was in his fifth year, when he went to Indiana. And since he came to the NBA directly from high school, at 18 years of age, that's unlikely.

You could argue that he faced the same obstacles that Blarche does. He came into the league without the skills or the physical maturity to compete. He was relatively productive in a limited role, but a Portland coach of that era would probably say that he played about as much as he was capable of playing. As he grew and improved, he became capable of much more.

In Portland, his role was very limited. In Indiana, it expanded greatly. We can't assume that the simple addition of playing time would have made him the same player in Portland that he was later, in Indianapolis. If we do, we're favoring one variable (court time) and neglecting all the other possible explanations (physical maturity, improved skills, change in team, improved attitude, etc). Why would we want to do that?

Can we assume that with added playing time, Blatche will improve as much as O'Neal did?

We can assume it, but you know what they say about assumptions.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 27, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

"Pecherov was a typical chance taken at that point in the draft. Neither a stunningly good or bad move."

No riskier pick than a young 7 footer from a Russian team. NBA scouts just don't get to see them often enough. Coming out of that background, you know they'll be able to hit the 3 pointer, and they probably have sharp elbows. But as for quickness or footwork or an NBA low post game -- it's pure guesswork.

Less so, IMO, with kids coming out of Western Europe or South America.

Grunfeld gambled and so far at least it appears he lost.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 27, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

I'm getting confused here. The Wiz haters always say we arent a real team that will spend to win like say the mighty Lakers do. And us not even considering Odom is even more proof of this.

But isn't it the Lakers that are refusing to pay Odom? How does that work?

Newsflash- Odom is the most overrated player in the nba right now and the Lakers know it. So does most of the league given the almost total lack of interest in signing him.

He's the definition of 'sometimey' and I don't care where he signs, though that's just me.

Posted by: divi3 | July 27, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Oberto is not the big splash we'd have liked to see, but he's a very solid, experienced veteran bigman who will accept his role playing 10-15 minutes a night on a good team. He's a proven winner from his days with San Antonio and gives us an option of going big with Haywood at times. It also gives McGee more time to develop and not to be overmatched against centers who are too strong for him.

The Wiz definitely have a very deep team, but it remains to be seen whether Flip can get them to play defense so they can be more than a 5th or 6th seed who gets bounced from the playoffs in the 1st round. Besides good health, the coaching of Flip Saunders and his staff will have more impact on this team than anything else.

Posted by: wizfan89 | July 27, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

To expect that a successful GM will be 100% correct in all his decisions is almost akin to expecting a good MLB player to hit 1.000 all year long. It ain't going to happen.

Sometimes for a GM you have to make lemonade out of lemons, like when Mitch Kupchek traded for Kwame Brown and then parlayed that bad decsion into Paul Gasol.

The focus on the negative so much so as to not being able to see anything positive can sometimes seem like a difference of opinion, but usually means there are other issues with individual involved.

Agreed. As much as Joe Dumars is held in high regard he's made some stupid decisions too. It happens.

To whoever said the Wizards should've drafted Curry...He's still an unknown. Foye is still young and approaching his prime. Showed he can be a productive player already, maybe Curry will do that but then again maybe he won't.

I wanna say Jermaine O'Neal was more talented coming out of HS than Blatche...and almost as clueless as JaVale. He was athletically ready but when he got to Indiana he was more prepared for an increased role. Is Blatche ready? I guess we'll see this year.

Lamar Odom? No thank you.
Blatche a failed experiment? I doubt it.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Anyone know how Javale played this weekend with TEAM USA?

Posted by: lemekdivine | July 27, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Anyone know how Javale played this weekend with TEAM USA?

ESPN Insider report on McGee with Team USA:

JaVale McGee: His length and shot-blocking prowess stood out, especially because that latter component has been conspicuously absent from the Americans' arsenal. Still, he's a long-term project at the bottom of the big man pecking order for now.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

One small point in Pech's defense is that he was drafted because EG thought his game might complement Gilbert's. That theory remains untested, because he never got a chance to see the court at the same time as Gil. Pulling a big man out of the paint and softening up the opponent's interior defense just doesn't have the same impact when Mike James has the ball instead of Gil.

Posted by: yop32 | July 27, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Cleveland having LeBron and the Pips (can anybody make a jumper?) come on how can you rely on the 3 THAT much and expect to win a championship. I was just waiting for them to stop missing. The only game they won in the Finals they had the highest FG % ever or something right? Come on.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 25, 2009 6:23 PM


Pretty much the exact reason why I don't see the Wiz winning anything with a core of GA, Miller, AJ, Foye, Caron. You don't jump-shoot your way to a championship.

Posted by: p1funk | July 27, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Drew Gooden agrees to a 1-year deal with the Mavericks. (He's only 27. I thought the was older than that.)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4356529

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 27, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Pretty much the exact reason why I don't see the Wiz winning anything with a core of GA, Miller, AJ, Foye, Caron. You don't jump-shoot your way to a championship.


The difference is Orlando didn't have anyone that could create their own shot. It was give the ball to Turkolgu and let him dribble and hope something good happens. Did Orlando get to the line a lot? Besides Dwight?

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

'Pretty much the exact reason why I don't see the Wiz winning anything with a core of GA, Miller, AJ, Foye, Caron. You don't jump-shoot your way to a championship.'

The Magic were relying on 3s whereas the midrange dagger will be more our staple (i hope).

Posted by: divi3 | July 27, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Regarding Jermaine O'Neal, it's been said many times since then that the reason he didn't get much PT in Portland was not because he wasn't good enough to play in the NBA. It was because he was on a contending quality team that had a frontcourt crowded with veteran All-Star big men. He was good enough to play, just not good enough to beat out Arydis Sabonis, Rahseed Wallace, and Brian Grant. It was a numbers game and as the new kind in town he lost out. That's not exactly a parallel to Blatche's situation in Washington.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 27, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Regarding Jermaine O'Neal, it's been said many times since then that the reason he didn't get much PT in Portland was not because he wasn't good enough to play in the NBA. It was because he was on a contending quality team that had a frontcourt crowded with veteran All-Star big men. He was good enough to play, just not good enough to beat out Arydis Sabonis, Rahseed Wallace, and Brian Grant. It was a numbers game and as the new kind in town he lost out. That's not exactly a parallel to Blatche's situation in Washington.

Agreed. I still don't know how Portland blew it in the playoffs with that squad.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 27, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

"'Pretty much the exact reason why I don't see the Wiz winning anything with a core of GA, Miller, AJ, Foye, Caron. You don't jump-shoot your way to a championship.'"

The Celtics did (at least as much as the Wizards). Of course, they were also a dominant defensive team.

Posted by: psps23 | July 27, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

The Celtics may not have a single dominant low post player, but they do have a number of guys (Garnett, Pierce, Perkins) who can operate down low and get quality shot opportunities in a half-court set when the pace of the game slows down as a result of defense getting more aggressive. The Wiz currently lack that (and have for some time).

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 27, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

The Wizards get their points in the paint from Gilbert. He drives the lane and he gets a lay up or to the foul line. He hits cutters on their way to the hoop with precise passes. He probably has the best back-to-the-basket game in the Eastern Conference amongst PG's.

Posted by: yop32 | July 27, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

"The Wizards get their points in the paint from Gilbert."

Yes, off slashing and penetration and pushing the ball in transition, not half-court post ups.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 27, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Gilbert probably has the best back-to-the-basket game in the Eastern Conference amongst PG's. Half-court post up points.

Posted by: yop32 | July 27, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Even if that's true (and it's debatable at best) low post play is not a featured part of his game nor is it something the team can or will go to when the offense bogs down because it's not really a strength.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 27, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

True, posting up is not Gil's biggest strength, but it might be the best option in a lot of situations, once you factor in the strengths of the defense. For example, Rondo is an awesome perimeter defender, but he's doesn't have a lot of mass. Gil, even if he gets his quicks back, might be better off trying to back him down than get around him. Gil probably outweighs him by 30+ pounds.

Sam-I-Am, our new assistant coach, was great at posting up. Hopefully he helps make it a bigger part of Gil's game.

Posted by: yop32 | July 27, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

IN RESPONSE TO:

Didn't some brilliant dude here say that EG was a genius because he knew Rubio wasn't going to be at the 5, and secondly, even if he was, that he wasn't going to leave his Spanish team?

----------------------

Not to my recollection. find a quote.

Posted by: crs-one | July 25, 2009 12:10 PM

-----------

KRS-one: Why are you posting if you're just going to be ignorant. Kal_orama said that about a million times. And no one is going to review old Wiz Insider posts just to prove it to you. But every day leading up to the draft, Kalo_ would tell us all how we were idiots who should choke on our own body parts because we were pointing out that Rubio (a) could easily sink to #5 (as he did); (b) could still get out of his contract regardless (which seems to be the case - he's scared of MN because they have been a lame-brained franchise who lucked into KG and drafted 4 point guards - one of which they traded, I know).

So, it was Kalo__ram who was saying it constantly, dude. Why do you care so much? It's bad enough that the guy is so negative and attacking but why do you guys have to stick up for him so much. It was Kal, dude. Secondly, don't post if you don't know Pech was a first rounder.

Posted by: Urnesto | July 28, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company