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Post-Flip Funk Continues

Flip Saunders might feel a bit vindicated right now. The Detroit Pistons fired Michael Curry yesterday after one season, continuing a troubling trend for the men who follow the current Wizards coach.

Joe Dumars, the team's president of basketball operations, dismissed Saunders in June 2008 after losing in the Eastern Conference finals for the third consecutive year because Dumars reportedly wanted to hire someone who would hold his players more accountable. Curry went 39-43 in his only season and Cleveland swept the Pistons in the first round.

Detroit hired Saunders's former assistant, Curry, and remade the Pistons at the start of the season when he traded Chauncey Billups to Denver for Allen Iverson and Antonio McDyess. The Iverson experiment was a disaster, compounded by Curry's alienation of Richard Hamilton when he benched Hamilton in favor of Iverson.

That decision eventually led to Curry losing the entire team, especially its core veterans. Curry later upset Iverson when he decided to move Hamilton back into the starting lineup. Iverson then quit on the team, um, developed a back problem that forced him to shut down his season. Detroit Free Press columnist Drew Sharp broke down the breakdown between Curry and Hamilton, which contributed to Curry's ouster because he didn't sound open to making amends.

Dumars told reporters that he might have "put too much on Mike as a first-year head coach." He's now in search of a veteran, with former Wizards/Bulls/Pistons coach Doug Collins reportedly ahead of Avery Johnson and John Kuester.

Dumars has had five coaches since taking over the team -- George Irvine, Rick Carlisle, Larry Brown, Saunders and Curry. Saunders lasted the longest (three years) and had the best regular season winning percentage of any of them. Since it is obvious that the players run the show in Detroit, Saunders should get credit for lasting as long as he did.

The coach who eventually follows Saunders in Washington might be in trouble. This is the second time that Saunders's replacement didn't make it through at least two seasons with the team. Dwane Casey was fired after 122 games with Minnesota, and now Curry gets just 82.

It's tough to follow Flip.

By Michael Lee  |  July 1, 2009; 10:56 AM ET
 
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Comments

Any chance he comes here as an assistant?

If EG does get us well under the salary cap by dumping our glut of guards, we'll need more assistant coaches to run practice.

Posted by: mabkhar | July 1, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Interesting story, however, I would like see some results before praising this team + its coach.

We have praised this team more than enough with its potential and "if healty" but it hasn't brought us anything...

Don't get me wrong, I will continou to support this team but it's time to walk the talk!!

Posted by: Goelez | July 1, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

if course I meant "continue"...

Posted by: Goelez | July 1, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

McGee/Young/James/Foye for Amare.

Posted by: Dellis2 | July 1, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

McGee/Young/James/Foye for Amare.

Posted by: Dellis2 | July 1, 2009 11:28 AM

why??


and mike thank you very much for keeping us entertained with the updates. I am a fan of your column and i want to show my appreciation. Us wizards fans debate for days on each thread, we come up with different trade scenarios, bicker among ourselves playing GM (when no one hit on the head the #5 for miller and foye trade)

and it keeps us entertained. So as a fan of the blog i just wanna say THANKS DUDE KEEP EM COMING!!

Posted by: mrhney03 | July 1, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

McGee/Young/James/Foye for Amare.

Posted by: Dellis2 | July 1, 2009 11:28 AM

Dumbest idea ever...need I explain?

Posted by: Broman17 | July 1, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

McGee/Young/James/Foye for Amare.

Posted by: Dellis2 | July 1, 2009 11:28 AM


Great deal.....for the Suns

Posted by: beas13 | July 1, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Saunders can't possibly look at this team as currently constituted and say with a straight face that he expects to be in the NBA finals.

This club right now is a 45-48 win club that will make the playoffs and then lose in the first round or make it to round two just to get swept as happened when the club was 45-37 several years ago.

This team needed rebounding and interior defense and there hasn't been a move to acquire either in the offseason.

There are trades out there to bring in complementary players who can be a PF or swing F for the Wizards and do the dirty work under the basket.

For some reason the Wizards steer clear of these players as if they have the plague.

I don't think I have seen an NBA title team that won with a roster full of guys whose first thought was to jack up a shot.

You need players like PJ Brown, Bruce Bowen, Kurt Rambis, Dennis Rodman who know their role and don't try to step out of what they do well.

The only players you can point to on the Wizards that are essentially defense first performers are DeShawn Stevenson and JaVale McGee.

It's not enough.

Posted by: leopard09 | July 1, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

It's tough to follow a legend like Flip. One of the best coaches (record-wise) in NBA history.

And he will go down as the greatest Wiz/Bullets coach in history. By a long shot.

Mark my words.

Posted by: Barno1 | July 1, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

The only players you can point to on the Wizards that are essentially defense first performers are DeShawn Stevenson and JaVale McGee.

JaVale McGee? Seriously? So Dominic McGuire doesn't play any defense huh? Crittenton is pretty good too...and his size is a plus.

Posted by: SDMDTSU | July 1, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

"You need players like PJ Brown, Bruce Bowen, Kurt Rambis, Dennis Rodman who know their role and don't try to step out of what they do well."

McGhee/James/Unseld for Rambis/Rodman

Posted by: SomebodyBeatstheWiz | July 1, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

"The only players you can point to on the Wizards that are essentially defense first performers are DeShawn Stevenson and JaVale McGee."

No, blocking shots does not equal to defense. McGee does not hold his position in defense, does not block out when the ball is up, and tries to run down court way too early BEFORE a rebound is secured on a missed shot!

I can grant you that this is his first season, and he can/may improve. But you simply cannot claim that he is a good defensive player (or that he knows how to play defense) at this juncture.

Posted by: sagaliba | July 1, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

My understanding is that Flip had already lost the team (or at least its key players) a while before he got fired. So it's not like he could have stayed. Not in the guaranteed world of the NBA.

Curry was a gamble from the start. If you've already got some high-maintenance players to deal with, you should probably find somebody with that sort of experience. A modern version of KC Jones --a great coach for that incarnation of the Celtics, but maybe not anywhere else.

John Thompson was holding forth on the radio about the difference between teams like Boston and the Lakers, and wanna-be's like Cleveland. In the first two cities, the team is bigger than the players. In Cleveland, the team is a subplot in the larger saga of King James.

Don't know that I agree, but it's an engaging point.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 1, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

I hear you. The Showtime Lakers would not have one any championships without Rambis. Boston didn't win it last year because PJ Brown retired. Bruce Bowen is the reason San Antonio won championships, he is available, lets go get him and the wizards will win.

If it only was that simple. The fact is, those guys are a dime a dozen. Superstars win in the NBA. The best of the best. Kobe, KG and Pierce, Duncan, Wade & Shaq, Duncan, Detroit, Duncan, Shaq & Kobe, Jordan, Olajuwon, Jordan, Isaiah, Magic, Bird, Magic, Bird, Moses, Magic, Bird, Magic, Seattle, Wes and Elvin. This list are the list of superstars for championship teams going back to the last time the Bullets lost. Two teams had no to superstar, Detroit with Chauncey and Seattle. They were a collection of players making a team that came along at the right time. Make no mistake about it, your superstars carry you. The role players are a dime a dozen.

I think Washington can be a deeper, more talented Detroit with Chauncey/Seattle team. Will they win it? Who knows. But adding a role player ain't gonna put them over the top. That's for sure. What you need is your pups to grow up quickly and play consistently.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 1, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

The Wiz have no superstars, but even worse they don't have a legitimate stud down low. The Pistons had Ben Wallace in his prime, the Magic have Howard, etc. Long story short, they could do some damage, but no way they win a championship.

Posted by: jimwest20 | July 1, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

> McGhee/James/Unseld for Rambis/Rodman

As it is written, so let it be done.

No wait, I don't want Rodman. Keep Unseld, just don't let him coach or GM.

Posted by: bentoenail | July 1, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

To G-Man11:

Great post. This is the clearest evidence I've seen to date to say that our superstars - Gilbert, 'Twan, Butler - have to gel as they did before, and our bigs and supporting cast need to grow up.

I do think we need another big because injuries will happen and every game will count as playoff position will matter for a relatively young team. Not to mention that with Shaq back in the east, there will be a lot to handle - Shaq, Superman, KG, etc.

Posted by: shah11 | July 1, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

G-Man how can you say the Celtics lost last year because they were missing PJ Brown bring gone? Every heard of a guy named KEVIN GARNETT? Come on...I'm with you on the need for a banger but let's not get carried away please.

Posted by: akdeac31 | July 1, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Haywood plays excellent defense as well...they were even talking about him in during the draft

Posted by: merajc86 | July 1, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

if gil does come back to form, which is a big if...he plays D on big men through his offense, and what i mean is, he is quite effective at driving and drawing fouls, and shaq and dwight get into fould trouble easily...

Posted by: jasonma1 | July 1, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

akdeac31 - please read Gman's second paragraph

Posted by: cballer | July 1, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Howard is the best center in the NBA, in my opinion. I think that qualifies him to be a superstar. Ben Wallace was a rebounder only. On defense, he was a help defender only, he needed Rasheed to help him on the block. He was a great role-player, but I would not say he was a stud. That team was a sum of all its parts, good players. I think they were recognized as the best starting five in the league at the time. Not sure.

The wizards can be similar. They may not have great defenders, but the offensive players are better and they have more depth.

Also of note, outside of Howard, who is a great defender on Orlando? Pietrish is pretty good but no better than McGuire. Cleveland? LeBron is a good defender but nothing else. They get away with more because of LeBron but Big Z, West, Mo, give me a break. Verajo? Give me Jamison. Boston has good defenders in Garnett, Perkins on the block, Rondo and Pierce, but I ain't afraid of them either. The Lakers? I guess Gasol is a good defender now. I just don't think Orlando had enough offense. They don't have unstoppable offense. Gil is unstoppable, or at least he was. Caron offensively is better than Turkolu. Antawn is as good as Rashard. But they need Howard to score. The wiz don't need Brendan to score. That is not to say the wizards are the best team. They can play with them and I have no reason to concede that other teams are better until they prove it against a healthy wizards team next year with Foye and Miller added.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 1, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Dumars fired Curry becaus he needed a scapegoat for his terrible personnel decisions (drafting Milozic instead of Melo, trading Billups for AI, and not adding a bigman to groom to replace Wallace). Dumars is rapidly becoming the 2nd coming of Kevin McHale as an executive. If it weren't for the fact that the Pistons had a great core that took them to the Eastern finals five years in a row, I don't think anyone would be giving Dumars a pass like they have on firing coaches every couple years (Carlisle, Brown, Saunders, Curry). Three of the last 4 coaches he fired were coming off 50 win seasons so I doubt its the coaching that is the problem.

Compared to Dumars, EG looks like a genius. At least he hasn't gutted the team without getting back some talent. The Wiz may not get past the 1st round, but at least they'll be a playoff team this year. Detroit looks to be woeful with a team consisting of Hamilton, Prince, and Stuckey, not exactly a Big 3.

Posted by: wizfan89 | July 1, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

shah11

I think the pups will play better because they have hope this year. They are playing for something this year. Last year, they had no hope because even if they sneaked in the playoffs, they knew they were in trouble without Gil and Brendan. Even Tough-Juice Caron quit last year compared to the year before.

The on-court leader is Gil. Make no mistake about it. Him being there will cause everybody to play better. He takes a lot of pressure off of everybody and makes there job easier.

Example, you can put Nick next to Gil and give Nick the ball. Nick's man will not get no help from Gil's man. Gil could be standing at half-court. Not to turn the game into a one-on-one, but Gil will make everybody's job easier. Period. Exclamation point!

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 1, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

akdeac31

my saying Boston didn't win because PJ Brown retired was made in jest, just like when I said that the Showtime Lakers won because of Kurt Rambis.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 1, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Wizfan, I think you're right about Dumars.

I think the under-appreciated figure in Detroit's fantastic run was Billups. Look how far they sunk without him and how far Denver soared with him.

Two of Dumars' moves turned out better than anyone ever could've dreamed: He found Billups when he was journeyman, but then Billups emerged as a tremendous chgampionship-level talent. Then he got Rasheed, and to everyone's surprise, the team chemistry was better off for it.

The sports media christened Dumars as a genius for those moves, when perhaps they were just dumb luck. His career since is awful.

Posted by: cballer | July 1, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

McGee/Young/James/Foye for Amare.

Posted by: Dellis2 | July 1, 2009 11:28 AM

I wouldn't trade McGee alone for two microfractured knees and a possible detached retina.

Posted by: phil27 | July 1, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Where's all the hate? All that stuff yesterday was very entertaining!

Posted by: MeviousMan | July 1, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

This team needed rebounding and interior defense and there hasn't been a move to acquire either in the offseason.

It's not enough.

Posted by: leopard09 | July 1, 2009 12:00 PM

dude...its only july..the season starts lets count..aug,sept,oct,nov thats close to 120 days...let it breathe a little bit we will be okay..we are better than last year definetly. and anyone we get anyway will be coming off the bench to spell brendan haywood. Grunfield got his man in Flip Saunders, so trust me he will build the best team possible for him. The team he constructed was a way to get rid of coach jordan, you tellin me they couldnt get anyone better than Dee Brown? the business is ugly.ask isaiah thomas when larry bird became the pacers GM, or kevin mchale when david khan was hired as the timbervolves gm, or even mike d'antoni when steve kerr became the suns GM..the team will be much better than last year, and abe might go out his pocket and get birdman because birdman will fill up seats with out a doubt

be patient dude

Posted by: mrhney03 | July 1, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

heres a trade do a sign and trade with ny. the knicks sign and trade David Lee and Larry Hughes to the Wizards for Mike James Andray Blatche and the Draft Rights to Vladimir Veeremenko? isnt that a good trade

Posted by: agentwizard0 | July 1, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

"Where's all the hate? All that stuff yesterday was very entertaining!

Posted by: MeviousMan | July 1, 2009 2:48 PM

Yes, I hate to say this but I miss Kal!

Posted by: Dave381 | July 1, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

heres a trade do a sign and trade with ny. the knicks sign and trade David Lee and Larry Hughes to the Wizards for Mike James Andray Blatche and the Draft Rights to Vladimir Veeremenko? isnt that a good trade

Posted by: agentwizard0 | July 1, 2009 3:00 PM

not a bad trade dude..but we can do without larry hughes, we already got like 99 gaurds on our team

Posted by: mrhney03 | July 1, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Mike,

Maybe you could shed some light as to why NBA owners keep hiring the SAME coaches time after time after time again??

Maybe an upcoming article?

Avery Johnson deserves a 2nd chance, not so sure about Doug Collins.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 1, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

You know what I don't understand? How our franchise LOVES to hand out our players BEFORE they get really good and then take them back when they get bad.

I mean we did it with Harvey Grant, sending him to Portland for Kevin Duckworth, AND then taking him back (albeit with Rod Strickland) for Rasheed Wallace. So that trade amounted to Kevin Duckworth and Rod Strickland for Rent (Grant) to Own (Sheed).

We've already done the Larry Hughes dance. He couldn't co-exist with Hibachi, or LeBron. He won't with the Big Three. It's bad enough when we get other team's retreads; why would we bother with our own?

Posted by: mabkhar | July 1, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Why are people so enamored with Larry Hughes?!? I mean he is a good player but lets be real his prospects for making it through the rigors of an 82game season plus 4 playoff games[or more assuming we dont get swept] are not getting any better as he gets older. Im all for bringing in the vets to strengthen the squad but lets be careful what we wish for here guys.

Posted by: DCSportsFan89 | July 1, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

I think Flip is going to be a very good coach for the Wiz. He seems to be genuinely excited about the trade they made. Saw an interview of him on comcast sportsnet where he explains how he plans to utilize all of his tools. Here is a link to the page http://comcastsportsnet.tv/pages/videoswizards

Posted by: joshclearfield | July 1, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

As far as trading Foye or Miller, i don't think that is permissible because we just acquired them via trade. The Wizards had 48 hours to move them once they acquired them and they didn't. They will have to wait until like December to trade them again (if they wanted to) Plus, they were brought in because they obviously like them. That being said, as many have said previously, we avoid addressing the paint problem like the plague. We always have height but we need a mentality. A tough, banger, who thinks defense and rebounding first...and interior toughness. I had mentioned yesterday that Blair could have helped to fill that need (but we didn't get him). I wanted Dorsey from Memphis lest year to do that. He's all of those things and he's also athletic as those kinds or players often times lack athleticism. Haywood is a decent shot blocker/changer and having a tough 4 man who can also take charges presents big problems for opposing teams. Look at teams with a good shot blocker and a hard nosed tough guy who takes charges and gauge their defensive success...Jalen Rose talked about how hard it was to get to the rim when a team has that combination to go against. The Wizards have an unbalanced roster at this time and even if healthy I don't see them winning more than 44 games.

Posted by: jwmartin_72 | July 1, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

If today was the first day of training camp, this would be a God awfull roster.

It's the first day of July, few NBA teams as now composed will go into camp. I doubt Ernie's anywhere near done yet either.

After watching Foye/Miller trade come down I'm pretty convinced that Flip's got more roster input in a few months then Eddie ever got here.

It'll be interesting to see who Ernie and Flip turn to now. Seems like Flip's targeting guys that he's got some real knowledge of.
GM

Posted by: flohrtv | July 1, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else think the trade for Miller opens up the possibility of a Caron trade? Now that Boozer did not opt out of his contract, some speculate he could be a trade option if they want to keep the younger Milsap instead.

I think Boozer would bring the toughness, rebounding, and defense the Wiz are lacking. Definitely a risk, but we might as well add another injury risk player to our "if healthy" team!

Posted by: hagerTerp | July 1, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Why are people so enamored with Larry Hughes?

Larry was a leader on that 1st wiz team to make the playoofs. He was one of the only guards we've ever had that could play off of gil and still put up numbers. he was thought of as a good defensive player,he led the league in steals that same playoff year, and was playing at an all star level beforhe left dc.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 1, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

LH avg'd 22pts 5 assts 6 rebs and 3 stls his last year as a wizard. i couldn't beleive abe opened his wallet and larry still decided to leave for a lower offer.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 1, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

"And we got Sam Cassell.

Abe is not cheap... He is Loyal.
Huge difference.

Posted by: Chocolate_City | June 30, 2009 10:59 PM "

Loyal to what?

The the word "mediocrity?"

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

"Not at all. Pops is a rebounder, an inside player. In less than 14 minutes a game, he averaged 5.1 boards and 0.3 assists, along with 5 points. McGuire averaged more than 26 minutes, putting up 5.4 rebounds and 2.5 assists. He can defend wing forwards as well as anybody on the club.

Still, I don't think Pops is what we need, either.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 30, 2009 10:40 PM "

Pops game consists of catching the ball and dunking. No post game whatsoever. He's a scrapper.

Nobody from the D-League is going to come in and help Les BouleS right away.

We've already got enough transition players on this team.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Mike,

Maybe you could shed some light as to why NBA owners keep hiring the SAME coaches time after time after time again??

Maybe an upcoming article?

Avery Johnson deserves a 2nd chance, not so sure about Doug Collins.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | July 1, 2009 3:25 PM

It isn't just the NBA; recycling coaches seems to happen in all of the professional sports, especially baseball. I think that a couple of factors come into play. First, I think that many GMs value pro coaching experience, and they recognize that the fact that someone was fired from another team doesn't necessarily mean that he was (or is) a bad coach. Maybe the coach's style just didn't fit with a particular roster, or maybe he had a falling out with the team's stars, or maybe he had been with a team for a number of years and had worn out his welcome. Another factor, I think, is that GMs tend to hire guys that they know or are familiar with, guys that they had as coaches before, perhaps on another team.

Posted by: rbpalmer | July 1, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

I agree that we do need a physical big.
We have enuff scorers. We need a banger to spell BH a few times per game. If he scores a few ---great. All he has to do is play D hard, block out on the boards
and make em pay if they drive to the rim. Should get someone like this - CHEAP ---- no lux tax needed.

Posted by: VBFan | July 1, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

"The coach who eventually follows Saunders in Washington might be in trouble. This is the second time that Saunders's replacement didn't make it to his second season with the team. Dwane Casey was fired after 40 games with Minnesota, and now Curry gets just 82.

It's tough to follow Flip.

By Michael Lee | July 1, 2009; 10:56 AM ET
Previous: Wizards Watch as Free Agency Begins | "

Sorry, the curse of Les BouleS will overwhelm whatever bad karma Flip brings with him.

Les BouleS have a tradition of hiring poor coaches, and anyone after Flip who fizzles would fit in perfectly in the hall of shame.

Flip may end up being called Flop here in less than a year.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps EG will wait to see just what we've got 1/3 to 1/2 thru the season before going out to get some rebounding and defensive help. I don't necessarily agree with that approach, but that's the only thing that makes sense.

Posted by: jthicks | July 1, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

we should go after someone like zaza or sean may...sean may is still young and even though he may be injury prone he won't get a chance to be injured on the bench. He may have potential with us because of his big body. zaza is a scrappy player who can definitely come in and contribute!

Posted by: merajc86 | July 1, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

"I wouldn't trade McGee alone for two microfractured knees and a possible detached retina.

Posted by: phil27 | July 1, 2009 2:38 PM "

I wouldn't offer $127 mil, above the market and above what any other team could have paid, for a once microfractured knee that involved 3 total surgeries, a pulled abdominal muscle, a dislocated clavicle, and questionable motives/decision making.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

If today was the first day of training camp, this would be a God awfull roster...

Posted by: flohrtv | July 1, 2009 4:07 PM


Let's examine:
Pg = Randy Foye
Sg = Gilbert Arenas
Sf = Caron Butler
Pf = Anton Jamison
C = Brenden Haywood
yea that starting line-up is Awfull...

Reserves:
Pg = Crittenton
Sg = Stevenson/Miller
Sf = Young?/Miller?(need help on that one)
Pf = Blatche/McGuire
C = McGee
yea those reserves are Awfull...

(End Sarcasm)

Starters look aight, Reserves nay.

Our roster is God awfull? Nah.
Our roster lacks depth? Yes.

Posted by: Vicc | July 1, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

"LH avg'd 22pts 5 assts 6 rebs and 3 stls his last year as a wizard. i couldn't beleive abe opened his wallet and larry still decided to leave for a lower offer."

not true....Cavs offered Larry a lot more money. Ernie wasn't willing to match so he went to Cleveland. Smart move by Ernie.

Posted by: frankbones | July 1, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

"If today was the first day of training camp, this would be a God awfull roster."

seriously??? Godawful? I think a big man acquistion could definitely improve the roster, but we easily have a top 5 team in the East IMO. See the breakdown above.

Posted by: frankbones | July 1, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Actually, we at least matched the offer (if not given him more) Cleveland gave LH. However, since he felt disrespected because we tried to negotiate a deal (instead of giving him a huge contract from the get go), he decided to be a Cav.

Posted by: merajc86 | July 1, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Let's examine:
Pg = Randy Foye
Sg = Gilbert Arenas
Sf = Caron Butler
Pf = Anton Jamison
C = Brenden Haywood
yea that starting line-up is Awfull...

Reserves:
Pg = Crittenton
Sg = Stevenson/Miller
Sf = Young?/Miller?(need help on that one)
Pf = Blatche/McGuire
C = McGee
yea those reserves are Awfull...

(End Sarcasm)

Starters look aight, Reserves nay.

Our roster is God awfull? Nah.
Our roster lacks depth? Yes.
-----------------------

That roster will get you a 7th seed in the playoffs and a first round exit.

We can't rebound, can't play d, can't score legit in half court wiht legit ball movement, can't crash the boards, can't create 2nd chance opportunities, can't rotate on defense, ESSENTIALLY CANT PLAY PLAYOFF BASKETBALL!!!!!

GREAT JOB ERNIE AND ABE.

Posted by: jdgreger@yahoo.com | July 1, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Gilbert Arenas is still the starting PG on this team, Vicc. We have made no moves to change this. GA simply needs the ball to be the most effective player he can be.

Now I'm sure occasionally he might play a little shooting guard, but not often. I also see Mike Miller as the more probable starter at the 2 guard, but maybe not. Regardless, with Foye, Arenas, Miller, Critt, NY, and Stevenson, there is a lot of flexibility in the backcourt. Miller will see time at the SF spot as well I'm sure.

This team quite frankly is stacked with versatility and depth to the SF position. Yeah, we're thin at the PF and C positions, but most teams are in this position. The league has turned into more of a guard friendly league in recent years.

I think we will be very good in the regular season, but that shallow frontcourt will be an achilles heel if we want to advance to at least the conference finals unless we make a small splash in FA.

I'm a fan of Oberto as the best fit for this team and someone who may be obtainable although I hate this type of conjecture in here generally bc it gets out of hand.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 1, 2009 7:03 PM | Report abuse

...We can't rebound, can't play d, can't score legit in half court wiht legit ball movement, can't crash the boards, can't create 2nd chance opportunities, can't rotate on defense...

Posted by: jdgreger@yahoo.com | July 1, 2009 6:57 PM


So how exactly are we gonna make the playoffs if we can't do all of the above.

or put it this way...What do we do good???

Posted by: Vicc | July 1, 2009 7:07 PM | Report abuse

That roster will get you a 7th seed in the playoffs and a first round exit.

We can't rebound, can't play d, can't score legit in half court wiht legit ball movement, can't crash the boards, can't create 2nd chance opportunities, can't rotate on defense, ESSENTIALLY CANT PLAY PLAYOFF BASKETBALL!!!!!

GREAT JOB ERNIE AND ABE.
____

Can't Can't Can't. Sure. I'll take your prediction and raise you all in and take you to the bank. This team will certainly score big, will rebound well particularly on the offensive boards, and Flip will get the team to play average defense. I'll raise you all in before the flop, which will be at least one more serviceable body at C/PF.

Your telling me this team is not better/deeper than the one that was leading the east 2 seasons ago before the all-star break???

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 1, 2009 7:13 PM | Report abuse

"Your telling me this team is not better/deeper than the one that was leading the east 2 seasons ago before the all-star break???"

That was Gilbert pre 3 knee surgeries...

This team couldn't get past Clev in May 2006 when Gilbert had fresh knees. Why? No ball movement and no rebounding and no defense.

ball movement, rebounding, and defensive rotations are pumped up to the Nth degree in the playoffs, and we do all 3 lousy. That's what seperates the regular season pretenders from the playoff contenders.

Trust me bro. I've watched this team evolve, peak, and now regress.

We peaked when Gilbert missed those free throws on cinco de mayo 2006.

Posted by: jdgreger@yahoo.com | July 1, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

rphilli721,

I would like us to pick up a serviceable back-up center and at first I was thinking Gortat, but more teams are hot for him than I thought. So he is now outta the question.

That being said, I agree Oberto could fill that role.

Posted by: Vicc | July 1, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

It was also just the beginning of Haywood becoming a legit NBA center. Before Blatche had any clue whatsoever. Before we added a very good bench. And, before, we had a coach who had a clue how to coach anything other than a few backdoor cuts. I believe that was the same season EJ was still enamored with Etan Thomas as the starting center and complained about having no bench. We've added much since then including a top tier coach! GA at 80% of what he was makes this team much better.

If anything, I think GA may be more willing to pass at this point in his career and do whatever it takes to win other than score constantly. He had 20 assists and 1 turnover in his mini-comeback last season. I think we'll see more of that this season.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 1, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

"If anything, I think GA may be more willing to pass at this point in his career and do whatever it takes to win other than score constantly. He had 20 assists and 1 turnover in his mini-comeback last season. I think we'll see more of that this season.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 1, 2009 7:28 PM "

You're basing your prognostication on 2 games? Yes, a prediction based on 2.4% of he games.

If there was a blog back then, I guess you'd probably think LaBradford was going to be better than MJ too.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 7:34 PM | Report abuse

"So how exactly are we gonna make the playoffs if we can't do all of the above.

or put it this way...What do we do good???

Posted by: Vicc | July 1, 2009 7:07 PM "

Because you don't need to be a .500 team to make the playoffs in the East.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 7:37 PM | Report abuse

Gortat would be nice, but I agree that his exposure in the finals has probably made him unobtainable as a cost efficient pickup. He might be the next James Jones too (I think that's his name. The Seattle big guy who had the good playoff run a few seasons ago and cashed in and subsequently disappeared). Anyway, yeah, Oberto is a SA guy. Well coached, solid fundamentals, hustler, rebounder, team guy. Just what we need! I would take him over any other name I've heard bandied about in here.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 1, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

You're basing your prognostication on 2 games? Yes, a prediction based on 2.4% of he games.

If there was a blog back then, I guess you'd probably think LaBradford was going to be better than MJ too.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 7:34 PM
_____

Yeah, I am. That and his injuries giving him a different perspective on his career and/or forcing him to be that player. And, a much better head coach and a team that does not need him to score 30 a game at all to win. This bench can actually outscore an opponents bench. So, yeah, that's my opinion for sure! His assists will be up and his scoring will be down!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 1, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

I think it makes much less sense to think that he is going to come back the exact same player he was before regardless of whether he is completely healed.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 1, 2009 7:54 PM | Report abuse

Because you don't need to be a .500 team to make the playoffs in the East.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 7:37 PM


Only one team below .500 made the playoffs in the east.

Are we gonna be that one team or will that
number be higher next year?

And I might argue that if we did not suffer an injury plagued season we woulda replaced that below .500 team and all eastern playoff teams woulda been .500 or above.


Posted by: Vicc | July 1, 2009 8:00 PM | Report abuse

"Only one team below .500 made the playoffs in the east.

Are we gonna be that one team or will that
number be higher next year?

And I might argue that if we did not suffer an injury plagued season we woulda replaced that below .500 team and all eastern playoff teams woulda been .500 or above.


Posted by: Vicc | July 1, 2009 8:00 PM "

With 2 teams @ .500.

Check years 2008,2007,2006,2005


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/standings

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

"Yeah, I am. That and his injuries giving him a different perspective on his career and/or forcing him to be that player. And, a much better head coach and a team that does not need him to score 30 a game at all to win. This bench can actually outscore an opponents bench. So, yeah, that's my opinion for sure! His assists will be up and his scoring will be down!

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 1, 2009 7:45 PM "

Yeah, and that and $160+ mil (total take from Les BouleS over 2 contracts) can make him content to cruise too.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 8:07 PM | Report abuse

"I think it makes much less sense to think that he is going to come back the exact same player he was before regardless of whether he is completely healed.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 1, 2009 7:54 PM "

Don't attempt to apply logic in predicting Gilby's actions....you'll look silly in the end.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Hmm, Pistson signed both Villanueva and Gordon.

Big moves...

Posted by: SteveMG | July 1, 2009 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Everyone says the Wiz need rebounding and defense. They might be able to get a rebounder like Camby(for James, Young and DS {or Blatche}) but this team will never play decent defense. Too many offense only players. But trading for Camby and signing a Gooden/Oberto/Smith type player would help make it more repectable.

Posted by: rocky123 | July 1, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Leon Powe. He's young, a good post defender, and should come relatively cheap coming off an injury. Don't know the severity of his injury though. But with Boston going after sheed we can steal Powe.

Posted by: detox04 | July 1, 2009 8:32 PM | Report abuse

Leon Powe. He's young, a good post defender, and should come relatively cheap coming off an injury. Don't know the severity of his injury though. But with Boston going after sheed we can steal Powe.

Posted by: detox04 | July 1, 2009 8:32 PM
____

Powe was a topic of PTI today and it does not seem Boston is interested in him anymore. One ACL injury is not a death knell to a career anymore so he would not be a bad pickup. Just maybe not the best as I believe he is slightly undersized for what we need.


Posted by: rphilli721 | July 1, 2009 9:10 PM | Report abuse

As far as the Detroit/Dumars discussion is concerned, yeah, Dumars has made a few bad decisions, but he was and still is a top GM in the NBA as is EG. It just bolsters my stance that all GM's miss on draft picks, make bad trades, and sign a few bad contracts etc... even top tier GM's.

Posted by: rphilli721 | July 1, 2009 9:14 PM | Report abuse

He also is rehabbing his left knee detox. If the Wiz sign him it better be late in the month after the dust settles.

Can he even pass a physical right now?

Posted by: elfreako | July 1, 2009 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Detroit has tasted success, but had a bad season last year even though they made the playoffs.

What do they do?

They axe the mediocre coach who alienated the team and now have both CVill and Air Gordon agreeing to terms to bolster their roster.

What do Les BouleS do with their $2.5 mil, MLE, and BAE? They do nothing.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse

What do Les BouleS do with their $2.5 mil, MLE, and BAE? They do nothing.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 9:23 PM


Don't worry, the other 28 teams did nothing also.

Posted by: Vicc | July 1, 2009 9:36 PM | Report abuse

"And we got Sam Cassell.

Abe is not cheap... He is Loyal.
Huge difference.

Posted by: Chocolate_City | June 30, 2009 10:59 PM "

Loyal to what?

The the word "mediocrity?"

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 5:02 PM

City of DC, Gil, Jamison, Unseld, Unseld Jr, Muresan, ....blah blah blah

3rd most wins in the 70's and a Title.
Call him "cheap" ... just call him a Jew and stop hiding behind words. cornholio

Posted by: Chocolate_City | July 1, 2009 9:37 PM | Report abuse

I'd pass on Powe...

What's gonna happen for Detroit now?

Who's gonna start, Air Gordon or Rip Hamilltion?

Posted by: Vicc | July 1, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

I've read quotes from AJ, BH and CB on the trade EG made...but nothing from GA. Could this be the sign of a new more mature GA?

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 1, 2009 10:28 PM | Report abuse

"I've read quotes from AJ, BH and CB on the trade EG made...but nothing from GA. Could this be the sign of a new more mature GA?

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 1, 2009 10:28 PM "

Maybe it's a sign of a guy too busy enjoying his pool and grotto.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 10:40 PM | Report abuse

"Don't worry, the other 28 teams did nothing also.

Posted by: Vicc | July 1, 2009 9:36 PM "

The other 28 teams?

Oh, you mean the other 27 teams that were better than Les BouleS last season plus the clips who got Blake Griffin?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 10:42 PM | Report abuse

I've read quotes from AJ, BH and CB on the trade EG made...but nothing from GA. Could this be the sign of a new more mature GA?

Posted by: oddjob2 | July 1, 2009 10:28 PM

It's a sign that Gilbert is in the hospital for his 4th knee surgery.

Posted by: jdgreger@yahoo.com | July 1, 2009 11:25 PM | Report abuse

"It's a sign that Gilbert is in the hospital for his 4th knee surgery.

Posted by: jdgreger@yahoo.com | July 1, 2009 11:25 PM "

I thought they amputate after the 3rd surgery?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 11:30 PM | Report abuse

An ACL may no longer be career ending, but it can still take up to a full year to come back from. Powe may not even be ready to suit up until the midpoint of the season. If then.

As for Dumars, I think the direction the team has taken since they won the title is forcing a re-evaluation of his acumen as GM. The Pistons title team was very good, but they weren't great. They caught some lucky breaks on the way to a championship. But ever since then, it seems like it's been one long string of flubs and missteps for Dumars. The core talent was good enough (and the East weak enough) that the team mostly stayed afloat and got to all those conf. Finals. But when the core was too old/disgruntled to carry the whole load, his bad draft picks and FA inaction left them with too little depth/youth/energy to pick up the slack.

Five coaches in 9 years is not a sign of a stable management approach.

Posted by: kalo_rama | July 1, 2009 11:39 PM | Report abuse

Can someone tell me what happened to Ivan Carter?

I'm just curious.

Posted by: WizForLifePilipinas | July 2, 2009 7:02 AM | Report abuse

Can someone tell me what happened to Ivan Carter?

I'm just curious.

Posted by: WizForLifePilipinas | July 2, 2009 7:04 AM | Report abuse

Everyone says the Wiz need rebounding and defense. They might be able to get a rebounder like Camby(for James, Young and DS {or Blatche}) but this team will never play decent defense. Too many offense only players. But trading for Camby and signing a Gooden/Oberto/Smith type player would help make it more repectable.

Posted by: rocky123 | July 1, 2009 8:15 PM


Idiot. Why are you giving up Young and Blatche? These guys can do some damage. I actually did this trade on ESPN but minus Young and Blatche and it turned out just fine. I wouldnt give Young or Blatche because they have something to look forward this season and really believe they wil get it together this year especially those two.

Posted by: dontecurtis | July 2, 2009 7:46 AM | Report abuse

"It's a sign that Gilbert is in the hospital for his 4th knee surgery.

Posted by: jdgreger@yahoo.com | July 1, 2009 11:25 PM "

I thought they amputate after the 3rd surgery?

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 11:30 PM


You two are idiots as well. I don't need to explain why because your stupidity defines yourself

Posted by: dontecurtis | July 2, 2009 7:49 AM | Report abuse

For all you Blair fans, Leon Powe had knee acl injuries to both knees in high school too.

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2009 8:00 AM | Report abuse

"It's a sign that Gilbert is in the hospital for his 4th knee surgery.

Posted by: jdgreger@yahoo.com | July 1, 2009 11:25 PM "


lmao!!

Posted by: mrhney03 | July 2, 2009 8:04 AM | Report abuse

I don't know why people want to jump on Gil for not being a pass first point guard pre-injury. When Larry Hughes, Caron, Antawn combined with Gil had great years with him as what was called the Big 3. Outside of them, I didn't want nobody else shooting anyway. Maybe you wanted Jared Jeffries, Michael Ruffin, Etan, Jarvis Hayes, and Brendan before he improved shooting the ball. I did not. I am much more confident and Gil should be too, with the talent surrounding the Big 3 now.

Some of y'all be trippin too much!

Posted by: G-Man11 | July 2, 2009 8:05 AM | Report abuse

Detroit has tasted success, but had a bad season last year even though they made the playoffs.

What do they do?

They axe the mediocre coach who alienated the team and now have both CVill and Air Gordon agreeing to terms to bolster their roster.

What do Les BouleS do with their $2.5 mil, MLE, and BAE? They do nothing.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | July 1, 2009 9:23 PM

Can't buy happiness. and we know championships are the only thing that makes you happy

Posted by: crs-one | July 2, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

http://btabasketball.com/forums/index.php?

Join BTA if you like to discuss the NBA and basketball in general with people all over the net. it's a growing forum and it's co owned by a wizards fan! Go wizards!

http://btabasketball.com/forums/index.php?

Posted by: ukhan93 | July 3, 2009 12:22 AM | Report abuse

It's very obvious that Flip Saunders is a very good coach. I think he will easily get the Wizards into the playoffs every year. Hopefully the Wizards don't do a bone headed move like Detroit.

Posted by: TJGodel | July 4, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

These comments started with talks about role players. No one ever mentions his name but if Malik Sealy had lived and developed into a poor-mans Pippen, K.G.,s and Flip's history might have been drastically different.

But really, I don't think Flip is all that great of a coach. A Gene Shue of the 00's.

Posted by: AscotAmos | July 5, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

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